Expressions researched:
"divorce"
|"divorced"
|"divorces"
|"divorcing"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Divorce was completely unknown, even up to, say, five years ago. Now this Nehru government has enacted Divorce Act in Hindu law, but actually, Hindu law-maker, they have no such thing as divorce.
Questions and Answers -- Montreal, August 26, 1968: Prabhupāda: Brahmin's business is to teach and to become a very learned scholar and teach people how to worship Kṛṣṇa and become devotee himself, and accept charities from others and distribute it again. So He had all these opulences without any difficulty, and His family life—mother, wife... Caṇākya Paṇḍita says,
- mātā yasya gṛhe nāsti
- bhāryā cāpriya-vādinī
- araṇyaṁ tena gantavyaṁ
- yathāraṇyaṁ tathā gṛham
Caṇākya Paṇḍita is giving too much stress on mother and wife in family life. So he says if one's mother is dead and if his wife is not very..., apriya-vādinī, and does not behave very well, ill-behaving, so Caṇākya Paṇḍita advises him that aranyaṁ tena gantavyam: such person should immediately go to the forest. Because in the Vedic understanding there is no divorce. If the wife is not very pleasing, there is no question of divorcing. Caṇākya Paṇḍita does not advise it, the advise that he should divorce such wife, but he says, aranyaṁ tena gantavyam: he should give up family life and go to the forest. Divorce was completely unknown, even up to, say, five years ago. Now this Nehru government has enacted Divorce Act in Hindu law, but actually, Hindu law-maker, they have no such thing as divorce.
In your country they marry as a matter of joke, immediately divorce after week or after seven days. But marriage means to take full responsibility of a woman. That is real marriage, Vedic marriage.
Room Conversation -- October 20, 1968, Seattle: Prabhupāda: Just like a man and woman. In whole world there is combination of male and female, either... Any society, human society, or bird society or dog society or animal society. Why this male and female? Why? Female is the energy, energy of the male. Why a man takes, marries a woman and takes responsibility...? Of course, in your country they marry as a matter of joke, immediately divorce after week or after seven days. But marriage means to take full responsibility of a woman. That is real marriage, Vedic marriage. We, when I get married our boys and girls, the boy takes this vow that "I take responsibility of your maintenance throughout your whole life," and the girl promises that "I desire to serve you throughout my whole life." So the woman, the female, is the energy. When a man comes at home, he sees that everything is nicely decorated, my wife is well-dressed and foodstuff is nicely prepared, he becomes encouraged. He can work more nicely. Therefore woman is the energy. The woman gives the energy and he can work. Wherefrom this idea came? The idea came because it is originally here, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Everything is coming from the Supreme; otherwise where do you get this idea? Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Without being in the origin? Bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10), Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the root of everything." So if this energy, male and female combination, is a necessity, so wherefrom this necessity came into existence unless it is there in the origin? Therefore it is to be understood that the Absolute has energy.
Take my life practical. I was a householder. Now I have given up. So practically I did not agree with my wife, but there was no dream of divorcing. You see? Neither she dreamt, neither I dreamt.
Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles: Prabhupāda: Just like in your country, marriage requires certificate. In India still, there is no certificate. The boys and girls, they are seated before the relatives and priest and elderly persons. They are offered. I am doing that. There is no certificate. But still their connection is lifelong. What certificate will do? That ceremony is so nice, the wife takes "My husband for life" and the husband takes wife, "She is my companion for life." They cannot separate. There is no history in India that there was a certificate issued. No. But still, their connection is so nice, that life long. Now, they are being westernized, especially I am very sorry to say that lately our so-called westernized leaders they are introducing this Hindu code bill, this marriage certificate, this and that. But formerly they weren't existing.
Journalist: Is there much divorce in India?
Prabhupāda: Yes. The modern, so-called advanced boys and girls, they are now after divorce. But before that, even there was misunderstanding between husband and wife, quarrel, there was no question of divorce. Take my life practical. I was a householder. Now I have given up. So practically I did not agree with my wife, but there was no dream of divorcing. You see? Neither she dreamt, neither I dreamt. This was unknown. Now they are being introduced.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
As soon as there is discrepancy in my satisfaction I divorce my wife. Or the wife sees that "This husband is useless." She also divorces. So everywhere, the whole material world is going on on the basis of sense satisfaction.
Room Conversation -- September 24, 1969, London: Prabhupāda: Mahātmās, those who are great souls, they are not under the spell of this material energy. They are not attracted by these activities of piling and digging and leaving. They are interested with Kṛṣṇa, Vasudeva. That is mahātmā. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha (BG 9.13). Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ. Bhajanty ananya-manasaḥ. Their only business is how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That is the highest perfection of life. If one is engaged in the business of satisfying Kṛṣṇa instead of satisfying himself... Most people, they are engaged in satisfying themselves. Everyone in this material world. The so-called politicians, they promise that "I shall give you so many things." But actually, he is trying to occupy the post for his satisfaction. These are all false promises. Why politicians? Even in our family life we maintain wife, children. Why? For my satisfaction. As soon as there is discrepancy in my satisfaction I divorce my wife. Or the wife sees that "This husband is useless." She also divorces. So everywhere, the whole material world is going on on the basis of sense satisfaction. So the sense satisfaction platform is called kāma, lust. And one has to elevate oneself from this sense satisfaction platform to the platform of satisfying Kṛṣṇa, service to Kṛṣṇa. (Aside:) Does he mind you? (?) So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to teach people how to satisfy the senses of Kṛṣṇa.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Just like our late Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru. He made some Hindu code. He introduced in that Hindu code the right of divorcing husband and wife. But these were not in Manu-saṁhitā.
Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow: Prof. Kotovsky: But... I am sorry to interrupt you, but originally, to my knowledge, original Indian society, when, in the second half of Indian society, when in Calcutta by order of British administration was codified, so-called, you know, remember, "Jantu Law," they called, a big digest of Hindu law, there was a lot of change...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prof. Kotovsky: ...called in.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they manufactured another...
Prof. Kotovsky: And this, the actual Hindu law which was used by Hindus, they're quite different from original Manu-smṛti.
Prabhupāda: No, they have now made changes. Just like our late Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru. He made some Hindu code. He introduced in that Hindu code the right of divorcing husband and wife. But these were not in Manu-saṁhitā. And, of course, they are changing. If you like, you can change. But the social order also not exactly the same as it was before.
Prof. Kotovsky: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: And so many things. So they're changing. But before this modern age the whole Hindu society was being governed by Manu-smṛti. Manu-smṛti, yeah.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
If the man or the woman is deficient in sex life, then there is divorce. So on this philosophy... There are many western philosophers like Freud and others. They have written so many books. But according to Vedic culture, we are not interested. We are interested only for begetting children. That's all. Not to study the psychology of sex life.
Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura: Prabhupāda: So this sex life increases the bodily concept of life. Therefore the whole process is to reduce it to nil.
Bob: To reduce it over the stages of your life?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Reduce it, just like a boy is trained up as a student up to twenty-five years, restricting sex life. Brahmacārī. So, some of the boys they remain naiṣṭhika-brahmacārī. He, because he's given education, so if he becomes fully conversant he doesn't like to marry. But one who has not such restraint, he's allowed to marry. That is also restricted, that he cannot have sex life without being married. Therefore in the human society there is marriage, not in the animal society. But we are reducing human society gradually to animal society. We are forgetting marriage. That is also written in the śāstras. Svīkāra eva codvāhe. In the Kali-yuga there will be no marriage performances, but the boy and the girl, they'll simply agree to live together. Dāmpatye 'bhirucir hetuḥ. And their relationship will exist on sexual power. If the man or the woman is deficient in sex life, then there is divorce. So on this philosophy... There are many western philosophers like Freud and others. They have written so many books. But according to Vedic culture, we are not interested. We are interested only for begetting children. That's all. Not to study the psychology of sex life. There is already psychology, pravṛtti, natural. Even if one does not read any philosophy, he'll be sexually inclined. There is no need of philosophizing sex life. Nobody is taught sex life in the school and the colleges, but everyone knows it, how to do it. (laughs) So pravṛttir eṣā bhūtānāṁ nivṛttis tu mahā-phalam. That is the general tendency. But education should be given to stop it. That is real education. (pause)
Bob: That, for today, is a radical concept, for nowadays.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Bob: Presently, in America that's a radical concept.
Prabhupāda: Well, in America there are so many things which requires thorough reformation. And this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that. When I went to your country, so I saw these boys and girls, they're living like friends. I said that "You cannot live as friends; you must get yourself married."
Bob: Many people see that even marriage is not sacred. So they find no desire to... Because people get married, and if things are not proper they get divorced so very easy...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that also.
Bob: ...that some people feel to get married is not meaningful.
Prabhupāda: No, the idea is that marriage is not sacred. They think marriage is a legalized prostitution. They think like that, but marriage is not that. Even that Christian paper, what is that, "Watch...?"
Śyāmasundara: Christian..."Watchtower?"
Prabhupāda: "Watchtower." It has criticized, one priest has allowed the marriage between man to man, homosex. So these things are going on. They take it purely for prostitution. That's all. So therefore people are thinking, "What is the use of keeping a regular prostitution at a cost of heavy expenditure? Better not to have this."
These things are stated. "Husband and wife will keep together so long their sex power is strong. Otherwise they will divorce." This is written.
Room Conversation with Maharishi Impersonalists -- April 7, 1972, Melbourne: Prabhupāda: In the Bhāgavata it is already stated, lavaṇyaṁ keśa-dharaṇam. Keśa means hair. To keep long, long hair will be the practice of people because they will think by keeping long hair they look very beautiful. That is stated in Bhāgavata. Five thousand years this prediction is there: "In this Kali-yuga people will keep long hair, and..., because that will be appreciated, that a man keeping long hair is very beautiful." So that is happening. Just see. Five thousand years ago, that was written, and that is happening. There are so many things. That is called śāstra. It is truth for all the days—past, present, future. Dāmpatye ratim eva hi. These things are stated. "Husband and wife will keep together so long their sex power is strong. Otherwise they will divorce." This is written. Svīkāram eva hi udvahe: "Marriage will be performed simply by agreement." According to Vedic system, marriage is a long program. The father of the girl and the boy first of all select. Then their horoscope should be consulted, how they will mix together, and then the family, then personal qualification, so many things... Then dowry... After all this consideration, when everything is satisfactory, then the father and mother of both sides will agree, and they will be married. That is marriage. Now, at the present moment in Kali-yuga, it is said, svīkāram eva hy udvahe. Boys and girls will loiter in the street and two of them, as they agree, "Yes, we will live together." That's all. Bas. This is stated. And that is happening. So this is called śāstra. Five thousand years ago, what was predicted, that is now happening. Therefore we give so much stress on the śāstra that it is perfect. There is no mistake. If you write one book, I write one book, because we are imperfect, it is all imperfect.
A man wants a woman, and a woman wants a man, so we say, "All right, take it. Live peacefully, but don't change partners." We don't allow divorce; once they're married there is no separation. Nor do we allow boys and girls to live together as friends. If a man wants a woman and a woman wants a man, they should become united by marriage, live peacefully and advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our proposal.
Interview with the New York Times -- September 2, 1972, New Vrindaban: John Nordheimer: What is the role of women in Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: There is no distinction between men and women.
John Nordheimer: I keep hearing about certain propensities women have that would separate them from propensities men have.
Prabhupāda: Well, it is still man's duty to become the husband and woman's duty to become the wife; so these propensities are there. But all this can be adjusted. I have many students and am getting them married, and they are living peacefully and advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not that everyone is brahmacārī. We have many gṛhasthas and children. In this way the propensities of the women and those of the man are adjusted. A man wants a woman, and a woman wants a man, so we say, "All right, take it. Live peacefully, but don't change partners." We don't allow divorce; once they're married there is no separation. Nor do we allow boys and girls to live together as friends. If a man wants a woman and a woman wants a man, they should become united by marriage, live peacefully and advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our proposal. In this way all facilities are there in this movement. Our program is to make people become godly, and everyone should help us. Every sane man should help this movement for the good of society.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
And divorce.
Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles: Prabhupāda: Confusion is not... Chaotic condition, confusion is not proper stage. That is a state of suffering. That is the position at the present moment. Otherwise, why they are fighting, nation to nation, man to man, group to group, community to community, diplomat to dip...? They're simply fighting like cats and dogs. This is not perfect society. Simply ca... They can say dogs. They can simply make barking, "Whowf! Whowf! Whowf! Whowf!" That is not perfect society. Human society should be sober. That is Vedic civilization.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But one should follow the standard morality. When that standard set is lacking or it fails to understand, then people try to speculate their own thing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No. Nobody's following any standard. Just like these Western people, mostly Christians. It is clearly stated in the Bible, "Thou shalt not kill." They're simply killing. Their only business is killing.
Bali Mardana: And divorce.
Prabhupāda: And divorce.
Bali Mardana: It says, "Thou shalt not commit adultery."
Prabhupāda: So these rascals, how do they claim Christian? Eh? What do you think? They're not even category, in the category of dogs, cats, and they're claiming that "We are follower of Lord Jesus Christ."
Sudāmā: But they also argue, Prabhupāda, that that law, "Thou shalt not kill," "I am not killing. The others are killing. But I am not."
Prabhupāda: Just see. Is that very good argument? "I am not killing."
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
The divorce is also dog's business. Dog is having sex intercourse with this female dog and another, another, another, another. It is animalism, That's all.
Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome: Prabhupāda: That's all. So we say another dog is running in a different way. That's all. These are very strong words. People will be angry. But this is a fact.
Yogeśvara: So here's a practical problem. People would be interested to know our position on divorce. Here in Rome they just passed a divorce law.
Prabhupāda: That is also animalism. Just like a dog having sex intercourse with another female dog, and another, another, another. It is also animalism. So that is your decision. They are animals, and different way they are coming to be naked animal, that's all. The divorce is also dog's business. Dog is having sex intercourse with this female dog and another, another, another, another. It is animalism, That's all.
Yogeśvara: But people are objecting that: If we cannot get divorced, then we are forced to live with each other even if we hate each other."
Prabhupāda: But hate each other, that's all right. We say what is the use of your sexual intercourse? That is animalism. You avoid it. Our Vedic civilization is to avoid it. Therefore they remain brahmacārī, naiṣṭhika-brahmacārī, no sexual intercourse in the whole life. That is perfection.
Yogeśvara: But that's not possible for the mass of people.
Prabhupāda: No, why not possible? We have got so many, just like Śukadeva Gosvāmī. He remained completely brahmacārī, although naked he is. He is. He doesn't require, and neither he is agitated. Just like when he was passing, the girls were taking bath. They did not take care. They knew that he is not at all affected by any woman. And when his father was going, they covered. So father inquired, Vyāsadeva, a personality like Vyāsadeva, said, "Why you covered? I am old man, and my young son he was passing naked." They said that "He is paramahaṁsa. He has no agitation of the mind. But you are gṛhastha. You live with woman. You have got distinction, man and woman." So this is civilization. What is the use of sex life? It is simply entanglement. Therefore, at the last stage, one is supposed to become sannyāsī. What is sannyāsī? Vānaprastha, sannyāsī, brahmacārī—no sex life. Out of the four different status of life, the brahmacārī has no sex life, the vānaprastha has no sex life, the sannyāsī has no sex life. Only the gṛhastha. That means it is prohibitory. It is allowed—it is simply concession to the person who cannot remain without sex life. It is simply a concession. Otherwise, according to Vedic civilization, there is no need of sex life. Because it is entanglement, simply entanglement.
That is our point. Then why do you marry? Just begin Kṛṣṇa conscious, and you will find, without sex, you will be happy.
Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome: Prabhupāda: Just like some of our students, immediately married and again, "Give me sannyāsa." What is this? Irresponsible, that's all. Irresponsibility. So these things are not required at all. These things are not required. Bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. After marrying they see it is very great responsibility. "Now let me take sannyāsa." That's all. Why you marry? Because he finds that after marriage there are so many difficulties. So irresponsible man. So after there is difficulties; that's a fact. So why should you go to the difficulty? Therefore the conclusion is the married life is not required. But if you cannot tolerate, all right, get this concession, live very gentlemanly. This is marriage. Otherwise for higher sense, higher elevation... High elevation, of course, one who is actually on the higher elevation, he is married or not married, it doesn't matter. But on the whole, the sex life is not necessary.
Yogeśvara: So these Italian women are complaining now that their husbands are abusing them, so why can they not get divorced?
Prabhupāda: Why do you marry?
Yogeśvara: Obviously, they wanted sex in the beginning, but they didn't know it was going to be so much trouble.
Prabhupāda: That is our point. Then why do you marry? Just begin Kṛṣṇa conscious, and you will find, without sex, you will be happy.
Yogeśvara: But what do we advise such women?
Prabhupāda: Whatever they, others women, they may take lesson from them that, "If these woman are suffering or these men are suffering, why should we marry?" There is a Bengali proverb, dekhe sekhe and tekhe sekhe (?). One who is intelligent, he can see what is happening, he becomes cautious. And one, when actually experienced, then he becomes cautious. Less intelligent. So if it is not good, why you are marrying? Why you are induced by sex life? Stop it by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you devote yourself, the whole life, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness you will not be agitated by any sex life. And that is yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-pādāravinde. If one is actually advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he will deride, "Huh! Nonsense! What is this?" That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, advancement. The only remedy, prime remedy for all solution, is Kṛṣṇa conscious. That we have to say. So answers are all right or not?
Yogeśvara: No, very nice. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Our life is so nice. We are satisfied with eating Kṛṣṇa prasādam and chant whole day and night Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. What is the use of this industry and trade. And transport and politics. There is no need. Anartha. It is called anartha, unwanted things.
Marriage means that they, both of them agree that "We shall live together for some time." These things are happening, already foretold. By agreement, "Yes, we shall live together." That is marriage. "And then I may divorce." Actually, they do not know what is the meaning of marriage.
Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva: Prabhupāda: The basic principle is to check population. Now, if they follow the Vedic principles, automatically the population is checked. Just like brahmacārī. So if the, both the boys and girls remain brahmacārī, then where is the unwanted population? Where is the question of this contraceptive method?
Nitāi: No need.
Prabhupāda: No need. Then when the brahmacārī is allowed to become gṛhastha, he can keep more than one wife if he's able to provide them nicely. Here they marry today and tomorrow divorce. The... No meaning of marriage. Simply prostitution. Because he does not need a wife. His sex life is satisfied in so many ways. So why he should be affected, attached to wife? And why the wife should be attached to the husband? Therefore divorce. It is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Dam-patye ratim eva hi. In the Kali-yuga, married life means sex life. For sex satisfaction, they'll marry. Otherwise, there is no need of marrying. That is... Svīkāra eva codvāhe. Marriage means that they, both of them agree that "We shall live together for some time." These things are happening, already foretold. By agreement, "Yes, we shall live together." That is marriage. "And then I may divorce." Actually, they do not know what is the meaning of marriage. All dependent on sex. Rati. Rati means... Dam-patye ratim eva hi. Vipratve sūtram eva hi: "To become brāhmaṇa means just have a thread only."
And that is freedom. So Rāya Rāmānanda left because such freedom is not allowed here. So we have to allow this freedom like the church?
Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris: Devotee: And he told me that "Swamiji will not be successful in his movement because he will not allow free love." I just saw him in San Francisco before I went to India two and a half years ago. We were trying to get him to come back to the temple.
Prabhupāda: No, he cannot give up these bad habits.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: You said in Geneva that no one has died from giving up cigarettes or illicit sex. So it is not so hard to do.
Prabhupāda: No, it is not hard. Now the Christian church is giving liberty, man to man marriage. Most unnatural.
Devotee: Previously they didn't allow divorce. The first principle was there is no question of divorce. Then so many people began leaving the Catholic Church. So then they allowed divorce. And then they did not allow abortion. So again so many people left the religion. Now they allow abortion. And now they are allowing man to man marriage.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Devotee: They compromise just to keep their followers.
Bhagavān: It's a matter of money.
Prabhupāda: And that is freedom. So Rāya Rāmānanda left because such freedom is not allowed here. So we have to allow this freedom like the church? (laughs)
Bhārgava: There was one survey done by a college, a university, Michigan State, and Rūpānuga Mahārāja researched it and said 94% of the people in America, they believe there is a God, but only 35% will go to church. They are not very much interested in the churches anymore. They don't trust them. But 94% believe there is God.
Prabhupāda: Because the church could not help them in understanding God. The Christian church has no idea what is God. Therefore there is no name of God. Actually, they have no idea about God. Is there?
The divorce case takes place in two: when the sex indulgence is not very good, and when the husband has no money.
Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris: Yogeśvara: This is all from the Twelfth Canto?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Foretold, five thousand years ago. Here said, tapasvino grāma-vāsā nyāsino 'tyartha-lolupāḥ: "And the sannyāsīs, they'll be too much greedy about money."
Yogeśvara: Just see.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
- hrasva-kāyā mahāhārā
- bhūry-apatyā gata-hriyaḥ
- śaśvat kaṭuka-bhāṣiṇyaś
- caurya-māyoru-sāhasāḥ
Patiṁ tyakṣyanti nirdravyaṁ bhṛtyā apy akhilottamam. "The natural tendency will be to give up, divorce, husband, especially when he has no sufficient money." The wife will divorce. Or the husband has no sex power. The wife... The divorce case takes place in two: when the sex indulgence is not very good, and when the husband has no money.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
According to Vedic rituals, the husband's wife... That is permanent relation; there is no divorce, nothing of the sort. But in case of the husband being sick or dead, the women was allowed, if she has no children, to get children by the husband's younger brother.
Room Conversation with Bernard Manischewitz -- March 5, 1975, New York: Prabhupāda: There is a verse in the Purāṇas,
- aśvamedhaṁ gavālambhaṁ
- sannyāsaṁ pala-paitṛkam
- devareṇa sutotpattiṁ
- kalau pañca vivarjayet
- (CC Adi 17.164)
In this age of Kali, five things should be avoided: one is performing sacrifice by offering cows; performing sacrifice by offering horse; and oblation offering to the forefathers with meat; and then to get child by the husband's younger brother. Maybe it was practiced formerly. According to Vedic rituals, the husband's wife... That is permanent relation; there is no divorce, nothing of the sort. But in case of the husband being sick or dead, the women was allowed, if she has no children, to get children by the husband's younger brother. Devareṇa. That is also now not allowed. So these five things are not allowed in this age, Kali-yuga: sacrifice offering cows, sacrifice offering horse, sannyāsa—renouncing family life—sannyāsa order, offering oblations with meat to the forefathers, and begetting children through the husband's younger... These five items are forbidden.
Husband and wife quarrel should not be taken as very serious. They fight and again they live peacefully. Why this divorce? The divorce mean it kills the whole family life. The children goes away; the father goes away; the mother goes away. I have seen so many cases.
Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth: Prabhupāda: Simply these Western people, they know how to earn money by hook and crook. So, so long the money is there it is covered, the fourth-class men. And when the money is finished, they are exposed, fourth-class men. They're simply covered by money. No social structure, no spiritual understanding, no character, nothing of the sort. Still India, so fallen, you... 95% people, living, husband and wife, very peacefully. And in the Western countries after six months' marriage, divorce. Are they not fourth class? Even the husband and wife cannot continue peaceful life, what to speak of others. Now this rascal Jawaharlal Nehru has introduced divorce in the Hindu society. Otherwise in the Hindu society separation between husband and wife is not even dreamt of. That, it cannot be. However there may be quarrelsome, but there is no question of separation. Husband and wife, they fight, everywhere. I have seen. My father and mother was fighting. I fought. (laughter) But there is no question of separation. Separation, they never think. Neither the husband can think of, nor the wife can think of. Even in the life of Gandhi there was fight between husband and wife, and the Gandhi one day drove his wife, "Get out from my home." So she was put into the street, and she began to cry, "Where shall I go?" And then Gandhi ans..., "Come on." Yes. And Cāṇakya Paṇḍita said, bambhārambhe laghu-kriyā. The husband and wife may fight. It becomes a very serious thing, but don't take of it as serious. This is Hindu philosophy. Husband and wife quarrel should not be taken as very serious. They fight and again they live peacefully. Why this divorce? The divorce mean it kills the whole family life. The children goes away; the father goes away; the mother goes away. I have seen so many cases.
Amogha: Just like that girl who came two days ago, that Indian girl. Her parents were separated. Now she is living thousands of miles away with some boy.
Prabhupāda: They are this part of Indian, the Fiji Indians. They have learned the art of divorce.
Amogha: They are very Western, westernized.
That is very dangerous law to allow divorce. Divorce should not be allowed. Even there is some disagreement between husband and wife, it should be neglected.
Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne: Prabhupāda: ...defect of the Western country is practically there is no social structure. The father, mother, they divorce, and the children become careless. Most cases this is the defect.
Director: Happens, yes.
Prabhupāda: I have seen many of my students, their family, whole family disrupt on account of father and mother, even in old age, divorce. I have seen Brahmānanda's mother. His father was very... still living. Very good businessman, very nice family, good income. All of a sudden the father and mother disagreed, they divorce. The sons were somewhere; the daughters were somewhere.
Director: That's cases we deal with. Adoption, and...
Prabhupāda: And the father married again, the mother married again. They were not happy, and the business also closed. So by one instance I can understand that how in the Western countries people become out of social structure. The root cause is godlessness. Root cause.
Director: And now divorce is getting easier too, isn't it?
Prabhupāda: That is very dangerous law to allow divorce. Divorce should not be allowed. Even there is some disagreement between husband and wife, it should be neglected. According to Cāṇakya Paṇḍita... He was great politician. He has said that dampatya kalahe caiva bahvārambhe laghu kriyā. The husband and wife's quarrel should not be taken very seriously. Ajā yuddhe (More quote by Cāṇakya) Just like fight between two goats. They are fighting, and if you say "Hut!" they will go away. Similarly, the fight between husband and wife should not be taken very seriously. Let them fight for some time; they will stop automatically. But the husband and wife fight, and he, as soon as he goes to the lawyer and he gives incentive, "Yes, come to the court." This is going on. So the first defect is there is divorce law. Another defect is that there is no method how to train a man to become first class. That is there in the Vedic civilization. Now of course in India that is also now abolished by degradation.
Jawaharlal Nehru, our late prime minister, introduced divorce law. Now the society is in chaotic condition.
Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne: Prabhupāda: In our childhood we have seen when people learned to eat meat, very secretly, not within the house. Outside the house with some Mohammedan cooker. It was considered very abominable to eat meat, to drink. And women, they were kept strictly under the vigilance of parents, father. Young girls not to mix with any young boy. If one young girl goes out of home and does not come back at night, then her life is finished. Nobody will marry her. So the father had to keep the young girls with great care. And the father was very, very anxious to find out a boy to hand it over. We have seen in our childhood. But now these things are slackened. Jawaharlal Nehru, our late prime minister, introduced divorce law. Now the society is in chaotic condition.
Director: What can you do if society wants it? Society wants it that way.
Prabhupāda: Society... that's like your child wants to go to hell. But it is not the duty of the father to allow him to go to hell. Society want... Because the society does not know, the government does not know how to uplift the position of the human being. They do not know it.
The wife gives me pleasure; therefore I like wife. The wife also likes husband because husband gives pleasure. Otherwise, there is no attraction. As soon as the husband and wife fails to give pleasure, divorce.
Morning Walks -- June 18-19, 1975, Honolulu: Siddha-svarūpa: Actually the Chinese are attempting artificially to keep the people...
Prabhupāda: But they do not know that where is the defect. Defect is that everyone has got some attraction. Somebody has attraction for his personal self. Somebody has got attraction for wife, children, family, then attraction for society. In this way they talk of many things. They have come to attraction of humanity. They are all nonsense. The attraction is for sense gratification under different names only. My attraction for family is not for their benefit. By my sense gratification the family members help me, therefore I am attracted. The wife gives me pleasure; therefore I like wife. The wife also likes husband because husband gives pleasure. Otherwise, there is no attraction. As soon as the husband and wife fails to give pleasure, divorce. The son goes out. The daughter goes out. So everyone is prone to some attraction. So if you keep them in the material attraction, then you can change the name; the disease will continue. That is the difficulty. You can change the name from this ism to that ism but every ism is material.
Amongst the mass of people in India, still there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not vanished. Because by culture, by taking birth in India that is inherent. India is so great.
Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles: Prabhupāda: That is everywhere. Why do you say here?
Indian guest: In India... I come from a village, and they don't talk... Well, fathers, parents, elder brother, and priest... And it is very different.
Prabhupāda: But that does not mean the thought of woman is absent. They may be more civilized. They don't talk loosely. But that does not mean he is free from the woman's beauty.
Indian guest: Yeah, they have it, but it is not that rampant. It is kind of suppressed a little bit.
Prabhupāda: At least, they know. They are taught by the culture, "This is not good." But here they do not know that, that the thinking of woman is not good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They think if you don't think of a woman, then that is not good.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You're abnormal.
Indian guest: That's right. They think you are abnormal. That's right. Over there something like divorce and the crisis, one woman marrying ten husband or going around..., those kind of... I don't anybody in India who has been divorced. I don't know personally. So it's different level.
Prabhupāda: No, amongst the mass of people in India, still there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not vanished. Because by culture, by taking birth in India that is inherent. India is so great.
Indian guest: The one problem over there: it's very hard to find a pure devotee or real...
Prabhupāda: Because their leaders have gone dead. The leaders are Jawaharlal Nehru and company.
Indian guest: They have destroyed. The Nehru family has destroyed India. He was atheist.
Prabhupāda: Even Gandhi, even Gandhi.
Indian guest: Gandhi believed in God, but Nehru didn't believe in God.
Prabhupāda: No, no, he does not know that Kṛṣṇa is God. Everyone believes in God. That is another thing, but one must know who is God. That is advancement. Here also, the people say, "God, God is great." But as soon God comes, "Here I have come," they don't believe it.
In the western countries there are so many divorce cases because the woman does not agree to become subordinate to man. That is the cause.
Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago: Woman reporter: But you say women are subordinate to men.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also natural. Because when the husband and wife are there or the father and daughter is there, so the daughter is subordinate to the father and the wife is subordinate to the husband.
Woman reporter: What happens when women are not subordinate to men?
Prabhupāda: Then there is disruption. There is disruption, social disruption. If the woman does not become subordinate to man, then there is social disruption. Therefore, in the western countries there are so many divorce cases because the woman does not agree to become subordinate to man. That is the cause.
Woman reporter: What advice do you have to women who do not want to be subordinate to men?
Prabhupāda: It is not my advice, but it is the advice of the Vedic knowledge that woman should be chaste and faithful to man.
Woman reporter: What should we do in the United States? We're trying to make women equal with men.
Prabhupāda: I am not trying. You are already not equal with the man because in so many respects, your functions are different and man's functions are different. Why do you say artificially they are equal? As I told you that the husband and wife—the wife has to become pregnant, not the husband. How you can change this, both the husband and wife will be pregnant? Is it possible? Is it possible?
Woman reporter: No, it is not.
Prabhupāda: Then by nature one has to function differently from the other.
Woman reporter: But why does this mean...?
Prabhupāda: So how you can change?
Woman reporter: Why does this mean that women have to be subordinate?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Woman reporter: Just because they bear children and men can't?
Prabhupāda: Well, by nature... No, as soon as you get children, you require support from the husband. Otherwise you are in difficulty.
Within two weeks, two divorces.
Morning Walk -- July 10, 1975, Chicago: Jayatīrtha: Yeah. "The Swami now lives in Los Angeles, and he trains his followers there. Their income is from sales of his books, magazines and incense. He says he has about ten thousand followers. 'We do not have so many,' he said..."
Prabhupāda: The inner meaning is there: "I shall be arrested."
Brahmānanda: Yes. (laughs) That shows what is the position.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayatīrtha: "He said he has about ten thousand followers." Quote: " 'We do not have so many,' he said, 'it is hard to find a first-class man.' " And then she says...
Prabhupāda: Therefore without first-class man, nobody can become my disciple.
Jayatīrtha: Then she says, "It's a pity half the population are women."
Prabhupāda: I didn't say half the population...
Brahmānanda: That's her comment.
Jayatīrtha: That's what she said. In other words...
Brahmānanda: Her comment is that if you hadn't...
Jayatīrtha: ...that half of the people are disqualified already because they're women. It's not so bad.
Prabhupāda: No, no, it is not bad. It is good. Now our policy should be that at Dallas we shall create first-class men, and we shall teach the girls two things. One thing is how to become chaste and faithful to their husband and how to cook nicely. If these two qualifications they have, I will take guarantee to get for them good husband. I'll personally... Yes. These two qualifications required. She must learn how to prepare first-class foodstuff, and she must learn how to become chaste and faithful to the husband. Only these two qualification required. Then her life is successful. So try to do that. (Car doors open, walk begins) Ordinary education is sufficient, ABCD. This is all nonsense, so big, big, sound education and later on become a prostitute. What is this education? (laughter) To make them prostitute, it doesn't require education. (break) Yesterday we saw in the television how these rascals are wasting time, talking nonsense. There was nothing, valuable talk. Foot... No, no, hand... What is that? Handprint? And the addicted murder? That was the case? (break) Within two weeks, two divorces.
If the home is not peaceful, always disturbed in mind, and one has to adopt twice in a week divorce, then how there can be peace?
Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia: Prabhupāda: So women should be trained up to be very faithful and chaste. Then the life will be very happy. That is the only education for woman. And man should be educated how to become first-class man, a brāhmaṇa. Then the whole atmosphere will be very happy. The man, first-class man, brāhmaṇa, śamo damaḥ titikṣa, and woman, very faithful to such husband and chaste. Then the home is happy. And Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says another place, dampatyoḥ kalaho nāsti tatra śrīḥ svayam āgataḥ. "If there is no fight and disagreement between husband and wife, in that home the goddess of fortune automatically comes." They haven't got to search out where is goddess of fortune. She will come automatically. So that is now lacking. In most cases the husband and wife does not agree. And the other day I was reading in a paper that one woman in two weeks or three weeks...?
Jayatīrtha: In two weeks.
Prabhupāda: She has divorced two husbands. And when the press reporters asked her, she replied, "Yes, it was a mistake." And still, they want to be equal with man. She commits mistake twice in two week, and still she claims to be equal with man. So we have got our school, Dallas, we are teaching the small children to make the boys first-class men, as it is enunciated in the Bhagavad-gītā, and woman to become very faithful and chaste. That's all. This is our education. Then it will be very happy home and people will live very peacefully, and then other things can be executed. If the home is not peaceful, always disturbed in mind, and one has to adopt twice in a week divorce, then how there can be peace? This is not freedom, this is disturbance. Freedom does not mean disturbance of peace. Freedom means that maintenance of peace.
If everyone is prostitute then where is the question of divorce?
Morning Walk -- September 6, 1975, Vrndavana: Brahmānanda: President Ford, he was almost killed.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā? What about?
Brahmānanda: Some woman... He was mingling in the crowd for the election, and some woman came up to him. She was two feet away from him, and she took out of her purse a loaded pistol, and she was to go like this, and then she was...
Prabhupāda: Captured.
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Nayanābhirāma: He was going to shake her hand.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Brahmānanda: So the president said, "Oh, this is simply a distraction." He was trying to say it wasn't important.
Prabhupāda: What was the cause?
Brahmānanda: She is a member of a group, a fanatical group in California. I don't know what... The Manson group? Charles Manson? Who is that group? This man killed about six people.
Prabhupāda: Prominent.
Brahmānanda: And I think this man has many wives. He has about two dozen wives. These are all his wives. He's in jail now. Life sentence. (break)
Prabhupāda: There is no problem.
Brahmānanda: Yes. He was saying, "Oh, it's just a distraction." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...the President's life is not safe, and there is no problem. What to speak of others.
Dhanañjaya: An intelligent man will go completely insane because he can't solve the problems...
Prabhupāda: The solution is there.
Dhanañjaya: ...without referring to the Vedic philosophy.
Prabhupāda: The solution is there. Take it. Take Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Dhanañjaya: They're so much implicated by sex life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Gradually they'll become ... understand that this is not good. Therefore gṛhastha āśrama is allowed under rules and regulation. The purpose is to restrict sex life.
Brahmānanda: The wife of the President, she recently said that sex life before marriage is good because it will reduce the divorce rate.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If everyone is prostitute then where is the question of divorce? (laughter)
Nitāi: There's also no question of marriage.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And that is going on.
O according to Indian culture, there is no divorce. There is no question of divorce. Both the husband and wife, they cannot dream of divorce. The love was so strong.
Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi: Prabhupāda: I was married... My wife was eleven years. So in this age there is no question of love. It is not that the husband and wife lives together, no. Unless the girl is grown up, she is not going to the husband. She remains with the father and mother. Sometimes they meet, and the wife is taught, giving some sweetmeat to the husband-official. Official. The parents of the girl: "Just go up to your husband and offer this." So she comes as obedient servant. But gradually they get the connection. In this way the love develops, and when they are fifteen, sixteen years old, they are allowed to live together. Because both of them have already developed that "She is my wife," "He is my husband," psychologically. And there was no question of divorce. The love is so strong, they cannot dream even that "I have to leave my wife," "I have to leave my husband." They cannot dream it. They may fight. The husband and wife fighting, that is not unusual. Therefore Canakya Paṇḍita says, "Fight between the husband, wife, never take it seriously." Daṁpatye kalahe caiva baṁbhāraṁbhe laghu-kriya: "They'll make all arambha, but it is not very important. Don't take." Next moment they will again live peacefully. So according to Indian culture, there is no divorce. There is no question of divorce. Both the husband and wife, they cannot dream of divorce. The love was so strong. Even Gandhi's life, he fought with his wife and pushed her out of the house: "Get out, I don't want you." And Kasturabhai, she began to cry on the street, "Where shall I go? You have driven me away." Then Gandhi said, "Come on." Finished. (laughter) He has written in his life.
Harikeśa: I'm curious about the destination of a neophyte devotee. If a neophyte devotee is with determination endeavoring for purification but he were to meet with death as he is still influenced by the lower modes, although he is seriously trying, then does he take another birth or does he go to Kṛṣṇa?
There are many cases. This is the statement in the Bhāgavata. Dampatye ratim eva hi: "Marriage relationship will continue only on sex power, that's all." If one is weak in sex power, the marriage will be cancelled.
Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay: Dr. Patel: I have heard that the man could have first landed on moon and then...
Prabhupāda: Nobody landed. This is all bogus.
Dr. Patel: No, no, whatever he did... Let us... It is all bogus, but that man is divorced by his wife because he has lost his sex. Somebody told me.
Prabhupāda: There are many cases. This is the statement in the Bhāgavata. Dampatye ratim eva hi: "Marriage relationship will continue only on sex power, that's all." If one is weak in sex power, the marriage will be cancelled.
Dr. Patel: You must tell any other good messages, how actually a marriage is, can be for production of good progeny...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Putrārthe kriyate bharyā putra-piṇḍa-prayojanam. This, the first, piṇḍa-dāna for maintaining family. But nowadays nobody wants offspring. They want to kill to avoid botheration.
Dr. Patel: First they prevent, and if by accident it happens, then they kill it. And the medical profession help them.
Prabhupāda: Help them. Before my speaking you are saying. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: I am against it, no doubt. Once upon a time I used to be the doctor of all these so-called cinema actors and actresses, and you know their profession. And they are always falling prey of these sort of things, and they would come to me for relief, and I would refuse. So today I have none of them as my patient.
Prabhupāda: But you cannot relieve them.
Dr. Patel: No, I have taken a vow not to do wrong things. That is why I am here in your company. Otherwise I would be somewhere in... That is very common in Bombay.
Educated girl means how to divorce husband, how to kill child. Is it not? Educated, modern educated girl means how to become unfaithful to the husband, how to divorce and how to kill child.
Morning Walk -- November 26, 1975, New Delhi: Prabhupāda: So near. You can come. (break) It is published, that the wood... Now it is no green leaves. Why? What is missing? If they are so expert, inject something and it will have green leaves like that. (break) ...I mean to say, trucks they are rejected in your country. We do not see such buses. What is this house?
Harikeśa: It's a college. It's a girls' college.
Prabhupāda: (break) How to kill child. This is education. Huh? Educated girl means how to divorce husband, how to kill child. Is it not? Educated, modern educated girl means how to become unfaithful to the husband, how to divorce and how to kill child.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: How to get equal rights.
Prabhupāda: No, equal rights, that's all right. This is the education. The uneducated girls do not do this.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
All enemies. Mother enemy, father enemy. And if the wife is very beautiful, she is also enemy. And the son, if he's a rascal, he is enemy.
Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura: Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes. Therefore ṛṇa-kartā pitā śatruḥ. A father dies insolvent, debtor; he is enemy because the son has to pay according to Manu-saṁhitā law. Because he inherits father's money, why he shall not pay if the father is debtor?
Jayapatākā: He also inherits the debt.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is India's law. You cannot simply inherit father's property and no debt. You inherit father's debt also. So a father dies debted, indebtor—he is supposed to be enemy because the son has to pay. Ṛṇa-kartā pitā śatrur mātā śatrur dvicaraṇi.(?)And mother, if she marries for the second time in spite of presence of children, she is enemy. And in Western countries it is very common affair.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Divorce and remarry.
Prabhupāda: All enemies. Mother enemy, father enemy. And then? Ṛṇa-kartā pitā śatrur mātā śatrur dvicaraṇi, rūpavatī bhāryā śatruḥ. And if the wife is very beautiful, she is also enemy. And putraḥ śatrur apaṇḍitaḥ. And the son, if he's a rascal, he is enemy. That's all. This is family enemies. In the family nobody expects enemy, but Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says that these are enemies in the family.
That is suffering.
Morning Walk -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles: Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Practically, though, without God consciousness, isn't it that people see that whether they are moral or not moral, they still suffer?
Prabhupāda: Yes. This material world is meant for suffering. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). That is the description in the Bhagavad-gītā. This is a place for suffering. And that is also temporary. You cannot make adjustment: "Never mind, it is suffering; I shall remain here." No, that also will not be allowed. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15).
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the marriage ceremonies that they have, they make vow before God that "Until death do us part, we will not separate," but so many divorces are there.
Prabhupāda: That is suffering.
Rāmeśvara: If a man can have an affair with many different women, he's considered fortunate. It is his success.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He's on the front page of all the magazines.
Hari-śauri: "Bachelor daddy."
Prabhupāda: Therefore they want to become gopīs. That is the tendency, sahajiyā.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Like transcendental hippie-life.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No responsibility.
They're not happy. Divorced.
Room Conversation -- June 18, 1976, Toronto: Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They all fell asleep. I was chanting. You were sitting, you didn't even go to sleep that night (laughs). Even though it was late at night, it was about eleven, twelve, one o'clock at night, you didn't want to stay at that bhogī yogi house. I remember that. And he drove very, very fast back to Portland. That was a very nice engagement.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. That was Śyāmasundara's father's car. So he's a good driver, (laughter) but very dangerous driver. I do not know, Śyāmasundara, his father is a rich man, lawyer, got good estate and he's the only son. He did not like to stay with father.
Hari-śauri: No one in the West likes to stay with their parents.
Prabhupāda: Two sisters, very beautiful girls. They're unhappy.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They're unhappy?
Prabhupāda: Yes. His two sisters.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I heard he was preaching to them. At least one of them that came to the temple that time. She came to that program.
Prabhupāda: She first of all came in London.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: She was piano player.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, they're artists. They're artists. They're not happy. Divorced. His mother is very gentle, I have seen. Father is also respectable man.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Family life in the West is disastrous.
Prabhupāda: The father wants to get them back at home, but they don't.... The father is also taking pills for sleeping. (laughs) Father is also not happy.
One boy, Rancor, so his father and mother divorced and he was young child. He was the first child of his mother. And the mother, he said, would daily bring a new friend. So he could understand.
Room Conversation -- June 18, 1976, Toronto: Prabhupāda: Yes. Wine and sex. They see from childhood. One boy, Rancor, so his father and mother divorced and he was young child. He was the first child of his mother. And the mother, he said, would daily bring a new friend. So he could understand.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: A new woman.
Prabhupāda: Not new woman, his mother, he was under the care of mother.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, mother had new husbands, new boyfriends.
Prabhupāda: Daily night. And he was shocked. One of my Gauḍīya Maṭha Godbrothers, big, he became the head of this Bhag Bazaar Gauḍīya Maṭha. So his wife was debauched, and she was bringing new paramour, and the child protested.
In Chicago I saw a newspaper. One girl, within three weeks she has divorced two husbands. (laughter) Yes, I saw it in the newspaper.
Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban: Prabhupāda: Abhirucir, yes. Now formerly marriage was a religious ceremony. Marriage was, this boy and this girl should be married, it is a religious function where the father and mother will see their horoscope and see if they are compatible, they will agree, they will live peacefully, so many things are there. Still, in India such things are calculated by the parents of the boy and the girl. But in this Kali-yuga, dāmpatye abhirucir. Abhirucir means the boy and the girl, if he likes, if he says, that's all. No other calculation. And the, after three days after marriage, there is divorce. (laughter) Because abhirucir, "I like, I don't like," that's all. Now I like, and after three days I don't like, finished, business. In Chicago I saw a newspaper. One girl, within three weeks she has divorced two husbands. (laughter) Yes, I saw it in the newspaper. So this, formerly the father, mother used to see that this boy and this girl are going to be married. So by horoscope, by other circumstances, by family, cultural, by education, so many things, whether they will live peacefully. That was the understanding. Husband-wife means, a man requires a woman, a woman requires a man. They should be combined in such a way that they can live peacefully. If there is no disturbance of the mind, then they can make further progress in spiritual life. Therefore marriage is also necessary, and that must be properly done. This was the... Now there is no such consideration.
There is no such thing in the Vedic civilization, divorce. You must accept whatever God has given you as husband or wife, you must. They had no thinking even, idea of divorce. One may not agree with the husband. That is natural. Sometimes we do not agree. But there is no question of divorce.
Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore: Prabhupāda: Woman should be expert in cooking. That is their natural tendency. They should be educated how to cook nicely, how to please the husband, how to take care of the children. This is Vedic civilization. In the beginning a woman, childhood, she's trained up by the mother. Then as soon as she is married, formerly, child-marriage, so she's transferred to the care of mother-in-law. There she is trained up. Then she becomes very good housewife, takes care of household affairs, husband, children, and home becomes happy. What is this nonsense, divorce? There is no such thing in the Vedic civilization, divorce. You must accept whatever God has given you as husband or wife, you must. They had no thinking even, idea of divorce. One may not agree with the husband. That is natural. Sometimes we do not agree. But there is no question of divorce. When this divorce system was introduced?
Rūpānuga: Comparatively recent. Because for many years the Catholic Church forbade it. When did it begin?
Pradyumna: Henry the Eighth, the King of England.
Prabhupāda: Oh, he's the rascal.
Pradyumna: He had many wives, he wanted to divorce his wife and he could not under Catholic Church, so he started his own church, Church of England.
Prabhupāda: Because many wives were not allowed?
Hari-śauri: No, they had a system, one wife, but he got fed up with them. He chopped off the heads of two of them and then... It was considered a bit outrageous. So then he wanted to divorce and have another wife after the third or fourth one.
Prabhupāda: So he used to cut them, the head?
And without father, mother, simply by lusty desires, that selection may be wrong and that becomes actually happened. Therefore there is divorce.
Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore: Prabhupāda: No, therefore it is called dāya, dāya-bhāk, legally he is bound. He may not get his son married, but the daughter must be married. This is father's duty.
Rūpānuga: It is sinful, actually considered sinful, if he doesn't do that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because without father the daughter cannot be properly married. Daughter or son, everyone, if the father, mother, by their supervision, the boys and girls get married, that is very good. They see how they will be happy. And without father, mother, simply by lusty desires, that selection may be wrong and that becomes actually happened. Therefore there is divorce.
Rūpānuga: In this country the father and the mother, they tell the daughter that "You go out and bring a husband home. You go out and find a young boy and bring him home." And they make them go out in the street to find a husband.
Prabhupāda: I know that. Sometimes they are advised to do business. I know that. When, in our society, in the beginning, I started marriage, the father, mother, did not like it. Nowadays it has become custom, in India also, let the girl have many friends, but don't marry unless you find out a suitable man. Society degrades.
On my last tour in Chicago I saw. In three weeks she has twice divorced, one lady's advertised.
Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm): Prabhupāda: In material world, for peaceful life, there must be peaceful condition between the husband and wife. Everyone requires wife, everyone requires husband. Sex is necessary, so make the condition of sex very peaceful. Why disturbed? Make the condition that there will be... It is necessary. As eating is necessary, sleeping is necessary, for ordinary man, so sex is also necessary. So make a condition so that nothing will be disturbed, and in undisturbed condition of mind execute spiritual advancement. This is Indian civilization. Aim is spiritual advancement. And to make condition favorable, there are so many things. So unless we get favorable condition... Here in the Western countries there is no favorable condition. First of all, they have no idea of spiritual life, the goal of life, neither there is favorable condition. And gradually things are becoming degrading. On my last tour in Chicago I saw. In three weeks she has twice divorced, one lady's advertised. You remember it?
Hari-śauri: I wasn't there that time.
Harikeśa: I remember.
Prabhupāda: You were there, yes. Is that life? How they can be happy if this is the condition?
His father and mother divorced.
Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad: Gargamuni: Yes, oh, yes. Those are heavy-duty machines. They were old, but they were good.
Prabhupāda: They were working nice. And the printer was that boy?
Gargamuni: Ranchor.
Prabhupāda: Ranchor. Spoiling so much paper.
Gargamuni: Yes, so much.
Prabhupāda: He brought $500 from his grandfather.
Gargamuni: Yes, he donated.
Prabhupāda: His father and mother divorced. So he used to visit sometimes his grandfather, father's father. So naturally grandfather, when he used to visit, he gave him some money.
Hari-śauri: And he'd give it to you. Then he gave it to you.
Prabhupāda: Once he gave me. Anyway, Kṛṣṇa is giving us encouragement. Religious, philosophical book, as soon as they hear of it they immediately say, "No, no, we..." That is the natural tendency.
They become, they divorced and.
Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: They come back again. But here (chuckles) Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement, one who comes, he'll be lost. (laughs)
Haṁsadūta: Brainwashed.
Prabhupāda: There is no hope of their coming. And Gargamuni's father tried so much to get him back. Then he became hopeless.
Haṁsadūta: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: He was pet child of his father and mother and practically they closed their factory and everything. They become, they divorced and (indistinct).
Haṁsadūta: Collapse.
Prabhupāda: Collapse. I sent Gargamuni, go and...
Haṁsadūta: I remember he went home for sometime.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: To try get into that business.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: He was detected though because he wouldn't eat meat. (chuckles)
Prabhupāda: No. He tried his best, his father. Then his father (accepted), "This child is lost."
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Nowadays, in the court case, fifty percent of cases are divorce in India.
Room Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay: Prabhupāda: They take it trifle. Husband and wife who are fighting, dam-pate kalahe caiva bambharambhe laghu kriya.(?) If there is fight between husband and..., it will be... The show will be very big, and the result will be nil. Bambharambhe laghu-kriya. "Never come to me! I shall not see your face! If you come, I shall kill you!" So on, so on. Then next moment they are talking. Bambharambhe laghu-kriya. These are taken very lightly, no seriously. Now they are going... Nowadays, in the court case, fifty percent of cases are divorce in India.
Hari-śauri: Same in the West.
Prabhupāda: And that is also younger age, no old. Old age, they are never... There is no such case. Only younger generation, within thirties, twenty to thirty, they are fighting.
Hari-śauri: Even in the West, the Roman Catholic Church wouldn't allow divorce. The Church of England was started on that because Henry VIII didn't like his wife, and he wanted to divorce, and the Roman Catholic Church wouldn't let him. So then he did do, so they excommunicated him. So then he started his own church and made up his own laws. Otherwise, now there's a big push in Italy for divorce and everything, but even in the last ten years there's been no divorce. They don't allow it. And chastity of the woman was still very greatly appreciated too.
Prabhupāda: Woman infidel, they are stoned among the Muhammadans. Christian also. "You have done..." Woman proved unchaste, she was punished. Is it not? The public would stone and kill. You know that punishment? Stoning?
Everywhere.
Room Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay: Prabhupāda: Ah, yes, that "Here, respectable widows." In Russia, after being widow, they used to live along with other respectable widows. They would never marry. Widow house. Live with queens and other respectable ladies. This was...
Hari-śauri: Now I think about seven or eight marriages out of every ten in Russia end up in divorce.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere.
Father and mother, yes. Why they divorce?
Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India: Rāmeśvara: The whole controversy centers around this point of breaking up the family.
Prabhupāda: We never said. Breaking up the family... So many ways they are breaking up, the hippies are also breaking.
Jagadīśa: The fathers and mothers are also breaking. Divorce.
Prabhupāda: Father and mother, yes. Why they divorce?
Hari-śauri: Seven out of ten marriages.
Prabhupāda: Within two weeks, three divorce.
Rāmeśvara: That's a very good point.
Hari-śauri: They have no family unit to speak of, anyway.
Prabhupāda: It is surprising. If one gentleman lives for life as husband and wife, it is a very surprising thing in your country that they have lived so long as husband and wife.
Hari-śauri: Yes, they become very glorified.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
We do not meddle matters in that way very much. That is a sideline.
Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara: Hari-śauri: But just like in our society we already have so many people who are initiated, but they can't follow the principles very strictly.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. It will take some time. They'll do it.
Hari-śauri: They just have to be encouraged to keep that association.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I stress in every letter, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa at least sixteen times. Follow the principles." That can be done.(?) This simple method will help. Even if he cannot strictly follow, still, whatever he has done, that is his asset. And it will give me more and more chance. So it is not actually lost. Tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbhujaṁ harer, patet tato yadi bhajann apakvo 'tha.
Hari-śauri: So we have to give allowances to such people. We have to give allowance?
Prabhupāda: Allowance? It is not allowance, but give him instruction. It is up to him to follow or not to follow.
Hari-śauri: But we cannot give any compromise.
Prabhupāda: No. This is the way. "But you are not able? All right, take little more time."
Hari-śauri: So, say like one point now that's coming up more and more is that these married couples, the women want a divorce or get another husband.
Prabhupāda: But we should not implicate.
Hari-śauri: So we cannot encourage divorce.
Prabhupāda: No. We do not meddle matters in that way very much. That is a sideline.
Like children, they must be given protection. No protection. No father. Father-mother divorce. She is alone. Then no husband, no children. What is this civilization? Always helpless. I have seen so many old women feeling helpless.
Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara: Prabhupāda: Just see. Obliged. (break) ...no means, either welfare or topless dance. No father, no son, no husband. That's civilization? Rascal civilization. Huh? They should be given protection. This is Vedic civilization. Na strīya svātantryam arha... They must be given... Like children, they must be given protection. No protection. No father. Father-mother divorce. She is alone. Then no husband, no children. What is this civilization? Always helpless. I have seen so many old women feeling helpless. Yes. Oh, yes.
Hari-śauri: They stick them in a home now.
Prabhupāda: Nothing. And on account of their helplessness, these rascals are enjoying: "Come here in the club, in the shop." Advertise, "Topless, bottomless." This is going on. And they claim to be civilized.
Because this woman, as soon as she is not able to serve you by her sex, then there is divorce. Nobody's serving anybody, but everybody is serving his own senses.
Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri: Gurukṛpā: The poor man, his office is cheating him, and then his wife stays home and spends all his money and he is being cheated by her.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He comes, taking so much trouble for the wife. He will lie down with her from eleven at night up to three o'clock. For that, that is home. This is his home. And to maintain this home, he has to take so much trouble. And this is civilization. He does not think, "For this little happiness why I am here? Better to become a sannyāsī and live independently. Why I'm taking so much...?" No. And after working so hard, in old age if you ask permission from the wife, "I have done so much for you, for family. Now let me retire." "Eh? You'll retire? Then who will look after me?" The home member not satisfied, and you are not satisfied. You are working so hard—how you can be satisfied? And they find still insufficient income. They are not satisfied. But what is this home? To sense gratification. You are not serving this woman. Because this woman, as soon as she is not able to serve you by her sex, then there is divorce. Nobody's serving anybody, but everybody is serving his own senses. So actually the man is serving his own senses, uṣṭra. He's eating his own blood and thinking, "Thorn very palatable." He's eating thorn. What is his palatable? Cutting the tongue and blood is coming out, and when the thorn's chewed with this blood, it makes little taste. Blood has got taste. And he's thinking, "Thorn is very nice." Therefore they have been called as uṣṭra. Uṣṭra eats own, drinks or eats his own blood, and takes the thorn as very good.
This is life, if young boys and young girls mix freely and have sex, and as soon as she is pregnant, you go away, let her suffer, no responsibility. The poor girl, long before, father, mother divorce—no protector. And as soon as she selects somebody husband, and as soon as pregnancy, he goes away.
Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri: Prabhupāda: All debauch. Because they're getting fat salary. What they'll do? They do not know how to use it. Wine, woman, restaurant, dance-finish. So we have got very pessimistic view of this modern world. You may like or not. Simply spoiling time. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply work without any profit of the human form of life. And nobody is interested to correct the procedure. If we try to correct them, they will accuse us that "These people are brainwashed. They deviating these young men from the general procedure of human civilization." Hm? What is this? Illicit sex stopped? Then where is life? This is life, if young boys and young girls mix freely and have sex, and as soon as she is pregnant, you go away, let her suffer, no responsibility. The poor girl, long before, father, mother divorce—no protector. And as soon as she selects somebody husband, and as soon as pregnancy, he goes away. And old age—there is no family, no son. Ninety-nine percent the woman class live like that. How hopelessly the old ladies are sitting down—only one cat, one dog, one television. The old men also like that, hopelessness. Or drinking or seeing the television. And a dog friend. Is that life? And we want to correct it—"brainwash."
He was forbidden not to divorce his wife.
Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977, Bhuvanesvara: Prabhupāda: Most of my disciples they are coming from the Christian group. They can reform. Chanting is also recommended in the Bible, the glories of the Lord. I do not know why these rascals, Protestant... That means... The Protestant means last class. Why they should protest against Jesus law? Protestant means that. They protested. Is it not?
Hari-śauri: I'm not sure about... I don't know much about the history of Protestants.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That King John, who started this Protestant movement? Some king in England.
Hari-śauri: Yes, it was started like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He was forbidden not to divorce his wife.
Hari-śauri: That was the Church of England, Henry the VIII.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, Henry the VIII. He started this Protestant.
Hari-śauri: He was excommunicated from the Catholic Church.
Prabhupāda: But this...
Hari-śauri: So he started the Church of England.
Prabhupāda: ...Protestant group was started by him.
Hari-śauri: I don't know anything about their history.
Prabhupāda: That is the history.
"Marriage means sex life." As soon as there is disturbance in rati, it is divorce.
Evening Darsana -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura: Prabhupāda: That is Kali's sign. Lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam. Five thousand years ago it was predicted, and now it is happening. Just see. This is śāstra. Lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam. "Younger generation will think by keeping long hair they have become beautiful." It is mentioned in Bhāgavata. Dāmpatye ratim eva hi: "Marriage means sex life." As soon as there is disturbance in rati, it is divorce.
What is this nonsense, every three weeks divorce? We are not so rascal. If we accept one girl as my wife, I take full responsibility. Because I require a girl or woman, so this woman, that one... We are not so rascal that at home I have got woman, I am searching after another woman, another naked woman. We are not so madman.
Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura: Prabhupāda: Better remain a brahmacārī.' If there is little trouble without sex enjoyment, take it just like itching. Itching trouble, if you don't itch, it will not increase. And if you itch, more and more it will increase.' That is advised. Kaṇḍūtivan manasijaṁ viṣaheta dhīraḥ. One who knows, one who has got brain, 'All right, let me suffer little itching. I'll not itch it.' It will...This is intelligence. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa (SB 6.1.13). The suffering from the itching sensation by brahmacārī, that is recommended in our śāstra. Tapasya means voluntarily accepting some trouble. 'So I am feeling itching. I don't itch it. It is little troublesome, little. Never mind, I shall tolerate it.'
Ādi-keśava: They don't understand that that is voluntary. They don't understand that that is voluntary.
Prabhupāda: Then voluntary...
Ādi-keśava: They think we are somehow telling...
Prabhupāda: No...
Ādi-keśava: ...the devotees that "You must." "You must not."
Prabhupāda: No, we... "It is voluntary. In our society we find so many brahmacārīs, so many gṛhasthas. And if you cannot stop this itching sensation, all right, marry one girl and live peacefully like a gentle... What is this nonsense, every three weeks divorce? We are not so rascal. If we accept one girl as my wife, I take full responsibility. Because I require a girl or woman, so this woman, that one... We are not so rascal that at home I have got woman, I am searching after another woman, another naked woman. We are not so madman. The sex pleasure is there at home, and I am seeking after sex pleasure in here, here, in the club, in the... What is that? Is that vagina is different? You are so fool. You require vagina; take one vagina. Be satisfied. And lick it. Why you are going here and there, here and there, here and there? Even old man is going to the nightclub to lick another vagina. Is that civilization? You are proud of your civilization." Tell them like that. "Licking of the vagina, different, obnoxious smell. You are less than the dog. The dog likes to smell the vagina. You are like that. What is business of going another vagina? You require vagina. Take one and be satisfied. That is intelligence. First of all there is no need of vagina. But if you want, take one and be satisfied. Why you are searching after dog vagina, this vagina, that vagina, that vagina? Is that civilization?" Expose them like that. "Your brain is filled with so much stool, so we are washing it. What is the wrong there?"
Divorce, child-killing or making the children hippies, that all. Or find out some war to destroy them. When it is unmanageable, they declare war: "Engage these rascals." The politicians do that.
Conversations -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: (tape very faint throughout) ...divorce, child-killing or making the children hippies, that all. Or find out some war to destroy them. When it is unmanageable, they declare war: "Engage these rascals." The politicians do that. When they cannot manage, they declare war, because they are not human beings; they are animals, Churchill and Hitler and this... "Start some war and finish this population." Or it may be nature's law. "When there is unnecessary population let there be war, famine, pestilence." That is one theory, Malthus' theory.
Three days divorce. Actually I saw in Chicago, within three weeks, three divorce.
Conversations -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: Human activity should be guided toward Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then it is human. Otherwise it is animal. Take minimum demand, be happy, and make progress. That is the platform of progress. Very little... (too faint) The same shape, (too faint) they are improving to make straighter, topless, bottomless, in this way and that way, miniskirt. They are arranging. The thing is the same, but they want to change the taste in different way. No knowledge. That means (too faint). Sex, you require under... You'll get it between husband and wife. There is no difficulty. What is the use of that? Daily pregnancy, daily... Three days divorce. Actually I saw in Chicago, within three weeks, three divorce.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In our temple?
Prabhupāda: No, no, some public...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that... And even the fact that they got married is more than most people do nowadays. They don't even get married.
Prabhupāda: There is no marriage. And in Bhāgavata says, "There will be no more marriage. Agreement."
