Divisions of... (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"division of" |"divisions of" |"subdivision of" |"subdivisions of"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: "divisions of"or "division of" or "subdivisions of" or "subdivision of" not "divi* society"@7

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:

Prabhupāda: The priest chants mantra in the temple. The kṣatriyas, they protect the temple. He supplies the expenditure of the temple. Because the land belongs to the kṣatriya. They are royal class. Because they occupy land, so they have got the obligation to give protection to the country, fight. They shall fight. And here, at the present moment, the arrangement is that you have no land, you are landless, but you are called to fight. Why? This system is condemned system. The kṣatriyas, they are royal class, they possessed land, so they had obligation to protect the country. Therefore they were fighting. How nice arrangement. Those who are occupying administration of the country, they should fight. But they are sitting very nicely in their armchair and calling somebody, "Go and fight and be killed." This system is not scientific system. Therefore the caste system is very nice. They have now been condemned... Not condemned, but they want to revise it. But this is a very scientific system. Why? It is created by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says in the

Bhagavad-gītā: cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). "I have created the four divisions of caste." It is not exactly caste; section, varṇa. So how you can stop? It is natural. So Bhāgavata recommends, Suta Gosvāmī is addressing, ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. This system of sectional division, this is... "He is brāhmaṇa, he is kṣatriya, he is vaiśya, he is śūdra, he is brahmacārī, he is householder, he is vānaprastha, he is sannyāsī." Or sub-section. "He is potter, he is washerman, he is this and that." You may divide it or not, this section will be there in every society. So Bhāgavata says that "You may be situated in any section. It doesn't matter." Either you be a kṣatriya or a brāhmaṇa or a potter or a washerman or whatever you may be, it doesn't matter. Everyone should be satisfied by his occupation.

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just try to understand, the inhabitants of India were called by the Muhammadans from Persia and other places, "Hindus." "Hindus" means the resident on the other side of the River Indus. You have heard the name of River Indus. So they cannot pronounce it Indus, they say "Hindus." From "Hindus," it has become "Hindu." So actually the residents of India were called "Hindus." And generally, at least in, say, three thousand years ago, all the inhabitants of India were strictly followers of Vedic principles. After the advent of Lord Buddha, a different religious system developed. Otherwise, before Lord Buddha, there was all the... Not only in India, in other parts of the world. They were followers of Vedic principles. So in that sense, you can say if followers of Vedic principles are called Hindus, then before Lord Buddha, everyone was Hindu all over the world. Not that particular part of India. So far we have got historical reference from Mahābhārata, Indo-European stock, they are also Hindus, the so-called Hindus, followers of Vedic principles. Yes. Gradually, they deviated. Just like recently there is division of Pakistan and India. Twenty years before, this Pakistan was part of India. Now, these Muhammadans, they did not come from outside. They changed their faith from Hindus to Muhammadans. Now they divided their property. Similarly, actually the whole planet was called Bhārata-varṣa. Gradually, people deviated from Vedic principles or imitated something else and they became different.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Meeting with Devotees -- June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said, ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa ara saba bhṛtya (CC Adi 5.142). (baby making noises) (aside:) He will disturb. Īśvara. Īśvara means master or the controller. Actually only Kṛṣṇa is master. Even Lord Śiva, Lord Brahmā, or incarnation of Viṣṇu, all of them are, in one sense, even Rādhārāṇī, all are servants. Ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa ara saba bhṛtya. So in that sense, in this New Vrindaban the master is Kṛṣṇa, and we are all servants. But there are division of duties of the servants, and they should discharge. Just like in our propagation of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement there are certain duties entrusted to certain devotee, and if he faithfully carries out that duty, that is his perfection. The spiritual master is the representative of Kṛṣṇa, and the duty allotted by him to a certain person, that should be his execution of spiritual duties. So this New Vrindaban, master is Kṛṣṇa. Now we should specifically divide duties amongst ourselves and discharge such duties faithfully. Then, by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, as you are growing up to now, the system and the prescription is very nicely being conducted. And this will help us more and more progress. So in this meeting I think we should allot different kinds of duties to different persons and execute. So you say something. (break) ...temple. I don't think it can take more than two hours.

Kīrtanānanda: We are done ārati and kīrtana by seven o'clock in the morning.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Then the respective duty can be discharged in two, three hours. That's all. Seven to ten. After taking your breakfast you work up to ten. Then you have got enough time.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Prabhupāda: So therefore attraction for any flower is not the solution of the question. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). Kṛṣṇa is Supreme Absolute. Anyone wants Him in any way, He also presents Himself in that way. Just like the same example. If you want a yellow flower, never mind whether there is any scent or any flavor or not, so that flower is there. It is for you. That's all. But if anyone wants rose flower, Kṛṣṇa gives him rose flower. But when you make a comparative study which one is better, then rose will be considered better. (chuckling) So ye yathā māṁ prapadyante. That means the Absolute is realized... Of course, varieties there are, but the original division of the Absolute is three: Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān. Now, Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān is the same Absolute. Different names. The jñānis, or the empiric philosophers, they reach or they aim at Brahman, impersonal Brahman. The yogis, they, I mean to say, focus on the Supersoul, Paramātmā. And the devotees, they aim at Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Now, this Kṛṣṇa and the Supersoul and the impersonal Brahman, they are not different. They are light. They are not darkness. But in the light also, there is difference The example is given: just like sunlight, sun globe and the sun-god. Everywhere you find light. In the sunshine there is light. In sun globe there is light. And what to speak of the predominating deity in the sun-globe? He also must be light; otherwise wherefrom this light comes? So so far light is concerned, everywhere there. But you cannot say because sunshine has come through your window in your room, you cannot say the sun has come. That will be mistake. Sun is many, many miles away. But so far light is concerned, now there is question of degrees of light, intensity of light. So the degrees of spiritual realization in Brahman, degrees of spiritual realization in Paramātmā, and degrees of spiritual realization in the Supreme Personality of Godhead, they are different.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Śāstra-vākya-pramāṇa. And it should be known through the spiritual master. Just like nowadays Bhagavad-gītā is being interpreted in so many foolish ways because they do not accept explanation from the authority. They become themselves authorities. Therefore misused. That is not explanation. Somebody is explaining that Kurukṣetra means this body, pañca-pāṇḍava means the senses. These are all nonsense. You have to accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is. When you cannot understand, you should get it explained by your spiritual master. Therefore one has to accept a spiritual master to understand. Tad-vijnanārtham. In order to understand that transcendental science one must approach a bona fide spiritual master. That is injunction. So here it is said that kānyakubje dvijaḥ. Dvijaḥ means he was offered the sacred thread. That means he was born in a brāhmaṇa family. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ. Everyone is born a śūdra, a foolish. Sudra means a foolish man who simply laments. That is the real meaning of śūdra. Anyone who has no intelligence, he is śūdra. We also generally say, gadāh, less intelligent. So brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, they are called higher caste. According to their... Brāhmaṇa, first-class because his intelligence is first-class. Kṣatriya, his intelligence is second-class. Vaiśya, his intelligence is third-class. And śūdra means fourth-class. And less than śūdra, they are called pañcama, caṇḍāla. They are accepted as animals, those who are less than śūdras. This is the Vedic system. Now, here it is said that this Ajamila, dvija... Dvija means he was properly initiated, second birth. First birth by father, mother, is śūdra. Anyone, even if he is born in a brāhmaṇa family, the natural birth is considered as śūdra. But if there is garbhādhāna-saṁskāra, then he's accepted as born brāhmaṇa, born brāhmaṇa. Still, one is born brāhmaṇa, he has to undergo the saṁskāras. So our, this... Now it is known as Hindu society although the "Hindu" word is given by the Mohammedans. It is called sanātana-dharma or varṇāśrama society, who very strictly follow the four divisions, social divisions of varṇa—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra—and four divisions of spiritual life—brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. So our, the Vedic system is called varṇāśrama. Varṇa means the social order. Āśrama means spiritual division. Therefore those who are following strictly the Vedic principle, that family life is called gṛhastha āśrama. Āśrama.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: But it has come into use. Real, I mean to say, cultural institution is called varṇāśrama, four varṇas and four āśramas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatri, vaiśya, śūdra—these four varṇas—and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. So according to Vedic concept of life, unless people take to this system or institution, institute of varṇa and āśrama, four varṇas and four āśramas, actually he does not become a civilized human being. This... One has to take this process, four divisions of varṇas and four..., four divisions of social order and four divisions of spiritual order. That is called varṇāśrama. So India's culture is based on these four, eight system, varṇa and āśrama.

Prof. Kotovsky: Varnāśrama.

Prabhupāda: Varṇa, varṇāśrama. And in the Bhagavad-gītā—perhaps you have read Bhagavad-gītā—there is also the statement, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ (BG 4.13). It is... This system is created originally by Viṣṇu. So as everything is creation of the Supreme, they cannot be changed. That is a prevalent everywhere, that a... Sun. Sun is creation of the Supreme. So sunshine is here in America, in Russia, in India—everywhere. Similarly, this varṇāśrama system is prevalent everywhere in some form or other. Just like the brāhmaṇas. The brāhmaṇas means the most intelligent class of men, brain, brain of the society. Then the kṣatriyas, the administrator class. Then the vaiśyas, the productive class, and the śūdras, the worker class. These four classes of men are everywhere present in different names. And because it is creation by the original creator, so it is prevalent everywhere, varṇāśrama-dharma. (break) So have you seen this little, how we are translating this? You can see little. Original śloka, its transliteration, then its English equivalent, then translation, then purport, each and every verse is being done like that, whole Bhāgavatam Purāṇa.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: You are not speaking correctly. I beg... We beg... With great respect I beg to submit, you are, that you are not speaking correctly. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated, cātur-varṇyaṁ māyā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ: (BG 4.13) "These four orders of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra is created by Me according to quality and work." There is no mention of birth. There is no mention of birth.

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes, I agree with you that this was addition of late brāhmaṇas who tried to...

Prabhupāda: No, that, that has killed the Indian culture. You see? Otherwise there was no necessity of division of this Pakistan. Not only that, from history, perhaps you know, this whole planet was Bhāratavarṣa, and it was controlled by one flag up to Mahārāja Parīkṣit. Gradually they separated, separated. This is the history. And late, lately they have separated Pakistan. So Bhāratavarṣa is now crippled into a small piece of land. Otherwise this whole... According to our scripture, Vedic scripture, this, this whole planet is called Bhāratavarṣa. Formerly it was named Ilāvṛtavarṣa, but since the Emperor Bhārata ruled over this planet, it is called Bhāratavarṣa from Mahārāja Bhārata. So this culture, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Vedic culture, were existing... Now any religion you take, Christian religion, Mohammedan religion or Buddhist religion, they are, utmost, two thousand, three thousand old, years old. But this Vedic scripture, you cannot trace out where is the beginning, where is the beginning. It is therefore called sanātana, eternal. And this culture is for the whole human society. It is not a departmental religious faith. Religious faith you can change, but real dharma you cannot change. Just like... You try to understand. Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā, He says:

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Therefore, the intelligent class means the brain of the society. They must work. Otherwise, how others will work? Working is compulsory for everyone.

Dr. Singh: They can fight also.

Prabhupāda: But just like the brain says that "Here is an enemy," so hand immediately strikes. Brain gives direction that "Here is an enemy coming," and he strikes with his hand. This is kṣatriya. And the belly supplies food, vaiśya. And the legs, śūdra, carries. So there must be systematic division of the work. Everyone should work. The brain will work, the hand will work, the belly will work, the leg will work, but the direction should be from the brain. Therefore, first of all duty is there must be an intelligent class of men directing. Then the other direction will follow. If the duty of the intelligent class of men is taken by the foolish rascals, then how this work will go on? That is first reformation, that we should pick up the intelligent class of men of the world and they will direct. And next the administrator class. And next the productive class. So intelligent class means one who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is intelligent, actual. Just like in Bhagavad-gītā it is said, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). Is it not? So jñānavān means the first-class intelligent class. So after many, many births, when one becomes actually wise, what is the symptom? Māṁ prapadyate, he immediately surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. Vasudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). That is the highest perfection of intelligence, to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then he will give direction to the administration. The basic principle is that without being Kṛṣṇa conscious, you cannot work properly. (Sanskrit) Because we neglected Kṛṣṇa, therefore brāhmaṇa, kṣatriyas, they have fallen down. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, everyone. (Sanskrit)

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Change, I say. How the changes take place? You are changing. You are changing from your childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood. So there is a plan. Unless there is plan, why one child is not, by chance, becomes immediately old. What the nonsense will reply? Let the rascal reply this, that here is a chance, that one child immediately becomes old man, by chance. Why there is process? This is plan. So you should have depth of knowledge, otherwise you will be carried away by these rascals. We cannot be carried away by these rascals. We never so easily believed that they are going to the moon planet. You see? We have to scrutinize everything. Yes. That is brahminical qualification. A brāhmaṇa will not accept anything simply because it is said by some rascal. A śūdra will accept because he has no intelligence. That is the difference between brāhmaṇa and śūdra. It is not a caste system. It is classi..., guṇa karma vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), division of high qualities and actual activities according to that quality. They misinterpreted. Because by the influence of Kali-yuga everyone is śūdra, so he does not know what is the actually brahminical qualification. Therefore there is, I mean to say, competition: "Why this man should be done?(known?) I am as good as he is, and why he should be called brāhmaṇa? He should be given greater facility?" So actually it has happened so. A so-called brāhmaṇa, caste brāhmaṇa, he is working his intelligence like śūdra, and he is claiming, by birthright, brāhmaṇa. There must be protest. This has happened. Otherwise, that division is perfect, guṇa karma vibhāgaśaḥ. Anyone who comes to that quality, he becomes brāhmaṇa. That is the injunction of the śāstra. Kṛṣṇa says guṇa karma vibhāgaśaḥ. You have no qualification, you do not work according to your quality, and why you are claiming a brāhmaṇa? That is self-evident. Guṇa karma vibhāga. He never said by birth, never said. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. "In this age, Kali-yuga, all śūdras." Therefore they accept everything cheaply and at once, the śūdras.

Śyāmasundara: Cheaply and at once?

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That doesn't matter, what business. Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya saṁsiddhiṁ labhate naraḥ (BG 18.46). That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Sva-karmaṇā, by his own business... Just like Arjuna's business was fighting. He was kṣatriya. So sva-karmaṇā, by his fighting business, he served Kṛṣṇa. He fought for Kṛṣṇa. So he became successful. So any business, it doesn't matter. There is another verse in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. The Sūta Gosvāmī said—all the meeting was being held by learned scholars and brāhmaṇas in Naimiṣāraṇya—so he said, ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhāḥ. You are all very first-class brāhmaṇas. So this is the verdict. Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. According to the division of varṇa and āśrama. Four varṇas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. And four āśramas: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. This is Vedic civilization, varṇāśrama. Varṇāśramācāravatāṁ puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān... (CC Madhya 8.58). When a human being comes to these institutional activities, varṇa and āśrama, at that time he is recognized as human being. Varṇāśramācāravatāṁ puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān viṣṇur ārādhyate... But that is the beginning of Viṣṇu worship. So Sūta Gosvāmī said, varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. You may be a brāhmaṇa. You may be a kṣatriya. You may be a vaiśya. You may be a śūdra. You may be a brahmacārī. You may be a gṛhastha. You may be a vānaprastha or sannyāsa. It doesn't matter. These divisions will go on. Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama... Varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ must be there, division. Vibhāgaśaḥ svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). Simply you have to see whether by executing your particular type of business you are pleasing the Supreme Lord. That's all. If by your activities, by your business, the Supreme Lord is pleased, then it is successful, good. Just like Arjuna. The same example. He was a kṣatriya. He knew how to fight. But by his fighting, he pleased Kṛṣṇa. Therefore he's successful. Similarly, brāhmaṇa or vaiśya, let them do his business. It doesn't matter. But see whether you are pleasing Kṛṣṇa. Then you are successful.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: ...New Gayā, and this is the New Gokula. You are in touch in politics, therefore I'm talking something of politics, that the politicians of India, they wanted the..., from the British government, India, a strong united nation. But they could not achieve that goal. Pakistan was taken away. They're now lamenting, or there is some, always unsettled anxiety due to Pakistan. So... So far this movement is concerned, we are spreading the Indian culture, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all over the world. So the politicians are lamenting for division of India, and here is a movement that everyone will glorify India for this culture. Why do they not join? It is practical.

Reporter: Yeah. But the trouble is that politicians are not interested in Indian culture; they're interested in power.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they're mūḍhas.

Reporter: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). So India cannot be happy being guided by the duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ. It is not possible. This request I made to Gandhi That "You are..." People accepted him as a spiritual man all over the world. So if Gandhi would have taken this movement sincerely and scientifically, it would have grown thousand times.

Reporter: Yes, yes. But that... What Gandhi said? Did he reply to your request?

Prabhupāda: No.

Reporter: No. Hm.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Mother: Well, I'm a nurse, and so that is why I would like...

Prabhupāda: So there must be division of work. So you take from... When there is necessity of brain work, you take help from him. And when there is need of the walking, take leg, help from the leg. It is a cooperation. Not that everyone has to learn everything.

Mother: Yes. Well, as I say...

Prabhupāda: It does not...

Mother: I myself did a training. I became a nurse.

Prabhupāda: You are asking us "Why you are not taking medical education?" Why we shall take?

Mother: Because if everybody...

Prabhupāda: No, there is no necessity. If the... If I can pay, I can get the help of a medical man, why should I waste my time in that way? Let me...

Mother: You think? Ah, but you should be self-supporting. You should be...

Prabhupāda: Let me engage my time for understanding God.

Mother: You should be self-supporting in that way.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Self-supporting. We are self-supporting. Just like... I have given the example. The body, the social body... You can take of this body. There are four divisions: the head division, the arm division, the belly division, and the leg division. So belly is doing the work of the belly, stomach. The leg is walking. The hand is doing, defending, and the head and the brain is giving instruction to everyone. This is cooperation. So that is Vedic system of civilization. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. There must be divisions of work. Not that everyone has to learn everything.

Mother: No, I don't mean that. You're misunderstanding me.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Then your question is replied. When I need the help of a medical man, I go to the medical man.

Mother: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So what is the wrong there?

Mother: Well, what I'm saying to you is that...

Prabhupāda: No, what is the wrong? You find.

Mother: ...you can love God and be near God and train to be a medical man. Why don't you let some of your boys be trained to be medical men? Why do you say no?

Prabhupāda: But again you are putting the same question. We are training them for the brain, and you are asking me that "Why don't you train them for the leg?" That is your question.

Mother: But they can still love God. They can still work for God at the same time.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not? If Kṛṣṇa consciousness is good, why everyone should not take to it?

Yogeśvara: Ah. This is an important question. He says seeing the world as it is today, what is the most preferable social organization from the Kṛṣṇa conscious point of view?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yogeśvara: How should society be organized in order to achieve these goals?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You organize that there should be division of different classes of men. The first class men, the second class men, the third class men, fourth class men. The first-class men means the most intelligent class of men. Second-class men means those who are dealing in politics. Third-class men means those who are dealing in economics, industry, trade. And fourth-class men means they have no intelligence to take up all these things, but they work only. But all of them should cooperate. For the general benefit of the whole human society. We have got engagement for the first-class men, second-class men, third-class men, fourth-class men. Just like we have got in our body the brain, the arms, the belly, and the legs. But all of them are cooperating for keeping the body fit. Similarly, the first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class men should cooperate for achieving the end, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Bhagavān: It's not that one class is feeling exploited by another class.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Śrama eva hi kevalam. That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as simply wasting time. That's all.

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhithaḥ puṁsāṁ

viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed ratiṁ yadi

śrama eva hi kevalam

(SB 1.2.8)

Śrama eva hi kevalam. Everyone is acting. Dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhithaḥ. According to Vedic civilization, there are four divisions of men. brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and further, spiritual divisions, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. So everyone has got some duty according to his position. So Bhāgavata says that even a person executes his duty very perfectly, but if he does not awaken his Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then all that he has done is simply a waste of time. So our point is that the UNESCO, United Nations, UNO, they're simply wasting their time. From practical point of view, they're unable to do anything. Because the original idea was to stop war. But the war is going on, fighting is going on. They could not stop it. And United Nations... But actually they are becoming disunited more and more. Pakistan was not there. You know very well. Lahore was your country. Now it is other's country. So in this way, there cannot be any solution. There cannot be any solution. We must know the central point. The central point is Kṛṣṇa. We get from... I'm not manufacturing these ideas. Bhagavad-gita is recognized book. There it is stated that:

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Bhagavān: ...the society would go to the gurukula, and there it would be decided what their work would be?

Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all there should be an instructor on the spiritual life, then according to his position... Our spiritual life is meant, we should always remember... But for management we have to make divisions. That is...

Devotee: Actually the whole society could be Vaiṣṇava.

Prabhupāda: Ah. They're Vaiṣṇava. But because they have got to live in the material world, there must be division of work. If everyone wants to become the brain, who will act as leg? That is also required. If everyone says, "No, no, I'm not going to do the work of leg. I want simply to work as..." No. It is needed. The brain is needed, the hand is needed, the belly is needed, the leg is needed. So that we have to divide. Who will work as brain, who will work as hand, who will work as leg... The main aim is how to maintain this body perfectly, fit. That should be the aim, how the society will go on nicely. And for management, this hand, leg, brain, belly must be divided. Just like there's slight difference, those who are directly engaged in temple worship and those who are going to sell books. Apparently there's difference, but basically there is no difference. Like that. If one can sell books nicely, why he should be, I mean to say, engaged in the temple worship? He can do better work in that way. But there is no difference between selling the books and temple worship. Or washing the dish. There's no difference, because it is all transcendental. Just like aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti. Kṛṣṇa's hands and legs, there's no difference. You've read this verse?

Haṁsadūta: Yes, aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya...

Prabhupāda: But still leg and hand.

Madhudviṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1974, Bombay:

Indian (1): That is a division of śāstra, Patel and Parsees.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Don't mention anyone. This is the general definition.

Indian (1): They were saying that you are not speaking Vedas.

Prabhupāda: What do they know about Vedas? If they did know, then they should have stuck up in family life, in kūpa-māṇḍukya and gṛhambhara, they have. They do not know what is Vedas. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). Vedas means to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is knowledge of Veda. In the Bhagavad-gītā.

Yaśomatīnandana: That is the special quality of Kali-yuga, that śūdra class people will take up the preaching of Vedas.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And even followers of Śaṅkarācārya... Śaṅkarācārya does not give anyone any recognition unless he's a sannyāsī. That is the strict principle of Śaṅkara sampradāya. They are gṛhamedhis and they are thinking they are advanced in spiritual consciousness. Śaṅkarācārya does not give anyone any position unless he is in the renounced order of life.

Girirāja: (break) ...sign of a great devotee is also to be always absorbed in...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore in their sampradāya it is a custom, as soon as he takes sannyāsa, he becomes Nārāyaṇa. "Namo nārāyaṇa." (laughs) That is an allurement. So this... Even one says that he is follower of Śaṅkarācārya, but there is no meaning in it. Unless one is a sannyāsī, he cannot say that he is follower of Śaṅkarācārya. Śaṅkarācārya took sannyāsa at the age of eight years.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: No. My point was, point is that... Because one is fourth-class, therefore we are not interested in that—it is not my point. My point is that there are four classes of men: first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class. And our point of view, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is meant for taking care of all classes of men. Although by natural division there are four classes of men, first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class, but the example we generally give, just like in your body there are four divisions: the head division, the arm division, the belly division and the leg division, but all of them meant for keeping the body fit. And body is meant for giving supply to everyone of them. But if you comparatively make division, the head comes the first division, the arms comes the second division, the belly comes the third division, and the legs comes the fourth division. So we should organize in such a way that all the classes of men in the society be happy, not that we simply take care of the head. The same example: In your body it is not your business just simply take care of the head or the legs. No. All these different divisions of your body, you take care. That is healthy body. When your brain is working nicely, when your arms are working nicely, your abdomen is working nicely and legs are working nicely, then you are fit. If you simply take care of the legs, not of the brain, that is not a good healthy body.

C. Hennis: Yeah. I think...

Prabhupāda: Just let me finish. So United Nation is taking care of the fourth class department of the society. What they are taking care of the first-class department? That is my question?

Nitāi: He is asking what are they doing to care for that first division.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 4, 1975, Dallas:

Prabhupāda: No, this is called... What is the definition in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa? Avidyā-karma-samjñānyā tṛtīya śaktir iṣyate. Avidyā...

viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā proktā

kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā

avidyā-karma-samjñānya

tṛtīya śaktir iṣyate

(CC Madhya 6.154)

The three divisions of God's energies. One energy is His spiritual energy; another energy—these living entities, they are also spiritual; another energy—material energy, where there is ignorance and work. That is material energy. In the material energy everyone is ignorant and they have to work. Karma. Karma means working. Avidyā-karma-samjñānya tṛtīya. So here you have to work. Without working, you cannot get your... The things are ready, but you will have to work. So they have increased the working capability. That is civilization. Just like in the prisonhouse you have to work. Eh? So they think this working is civilization. This is avidya. So therefore they have created more work. From early morning, five o'clock, till ten o'clock, simply working. They do not know that "This working is our punishment." But because ignorant, they think that "Working is life." This is called ignorance. He does not know, "This working is my punishment. How to get out of this work?" No. To increase the work more, complicate, that is civilization. This is called avidyā. Avidyā-karma-samjñānya. Our tendency is not to work but get things. Therefore he has asked that question. Because he has to get cloth by working, therefore he asking, "Why God has not created?" That means tendency is not to work. That is spiritual tendency.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: "Regarding the elements in our tradition relating to dharma and saṁsṛti, we must adopt the whole varṇa and āśramas as they are recommended in all the śāstras. If you give up these directions of the śāstras, that is neither dharma nor saṁsṛti, at least in the Indian tradition, as it is directed in the Bhagavad-gītā that the four divisions of social and the four divisions of religious systems like brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsī must be adopted. Otherwise there is no tradition of bhāratīya sanskṛiti."

Prabhupāda: If you give up this varṇāśrama-dharma, then where is your bhāratīya sanskṛiti? But they are trying to give it up, abolish this. Then where is bhāratīya sanskṛiti? Then?

Brahmānanda: "Six: Injunctions of śāstras regarding charity and how it should be practiced in the present conditions. So the mutual relationship of dharma and politics in the light of our history and tradition can only be revived when we observe the system of varṇāśrama. It is actually like this: the brāhmaṇa is like the head, and the kṣatriya is like the arms, the vaiśya is the stomach or the abdomen, and the śūdra is like the legs. Similarly, spiritually, the brahmacārī is the trained-up disciple, the gṛhastha is the trained-up householder, the vānaprastha is experienced as a retired gentleman, and the sannyāsī is completely in the renounced order of life for spiritual advancement. There is no question of the head being in an exalted position without the cooperation of the leg. When there is a pin-prick in some part of the leg, the head immediately takes it very seriously and takes out the thorn in some part of the leg. Similarly, whenever there is some outside attack, the arms or the hands spread to protect the whole body. In the same way, within the abdomen there is the machinery of digesting foodstuffs, and after digestion the secretion turns into blood and it is infused throughout the whole anatomical structure of the body. Similarly, the cooperation between the head, arms, stomach and legs is the perfect situation of the human society."

Governor: Coordination.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: So how you'll find, if everything is now changed? Where you will get the right information?

Paramahaṁsa: That's the problem. That's why there are so many hundreds of branches of Christianity, literally hundreds. So many divisions of Christianity. Some people accept this, some people accept this.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we should advocate that Bhagavad-gītā is not like that. It is coming in the same form as it was taught to Arjuna. If you challenge that "How you know that it has not been changed?" the ācāryas are there. The ācāryas are there, and they are accepting. Therefore it is correct. We have to follow the ācāryas. So when we see the ācāryas have accepted, then we accept. All the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, before that other ācāryas also, they accept. They never say that "This was not in the original scripture. It has been changed." You don't find any such statement of the ācāryas. The best thing, therefore, if you want a religious system, Bhagavad-gītā is coming without any contradiction, change, for the last five thousand years. You accept it. Other scriptures are (unclear), and there are so many doubts, so many interpretations. So, if you want real religious system, this is the scripture spoken directly by God, and accepted by all the ācāryas, so take it. If you are really after God, so you take enlightenment from this perfect scripture. If you want truth, it doesn't matter wherefrom it is coming. I must accept the truth.

Paramahaṁsa: The Christians openly admit that the Bible has been changed, but they also have a lot of doubt about our scripture.

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Why it is not scientific? If Bhagavad-gītā says, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14), by eating sufficient grains, the living entity become flourished. So, can you deny it?

Amogha: That must be true.

Prabhupāda: Everything is true. If you think it properly, you'll find it is all true. Bhagavad-gītā says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ: (BG 4.13) "By Me, the four divisions of human soceity are made." The most intelligent class, the brāhmaṇa, who knows the soul, God, etc., by their character, by their behavior. That is brāhmaṇa class. This is the most perfect way of keeping society. Unless there is a class which is very intelligent who know what is God, what is soul, then what is the civilization? Simply motorcar drivers? Is that civilization? Where is the brāhmaṇa? This is not civilization. Simply some artisans and workers, motorcar drivers, mill workers, where is civilized man, who knows God, who knows soul, who knows how to conduct the human society to the perfection? Where is that man? It is not civilization.

Paramahaṁsa: But we have philosophers and poets.

Prabhupāda: They are all loafer class. They have no information of the soul. They are studying in the dead matter, that's all. Freud and others, Darwin. What do they know?

Amogha: There are also so many priests and rabbis, the Pope.

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: That caste system is already there. We are also..., we have got poor class, rich class. The Communists, they have also worker class, manager class, although the Communists against class system. But I have seen, they have made this classification: worker class, manager class. Why do you make this? That is efficiency. Leader class, follower class. Otherwise there will be chaos. This is natural.

Amogha: The divisions of work are naturally there. You can't avoid them.

Prabhupāda: Even in your body there is class. The head class, the arm class, the belly class, the leg class. They are working differently for benefit of the whole body. That is natural. If you avoid and if you simply keep the leg, then it will be chaotic condition. Or even if you keep the head only, that will not stand. There must be four. That is natural. That is the Vedic mantra it is said—you are reading the other day—the brāhmaṇas, they came out of the mouth. The kṣatriyas, they came out of the arms. The vaiśyas, they came out of the belt. And the śūdras, they came out of the legs. This is mantra. How you can avoid it? Kṛṣṇa says, "It is My creation. How you can avoid it?" You cannot avoid anything which is created by Kṛṣṇa. Just like sunshine. It is created by Kṛṣṇa. You cannot say, "No, no. I don't want sunshine." That is foolishness. If you want to avoid, then you'll suffer. The sunshine is there, and if you go into the dark place, and cover yourself, then the sunshine is outside, that's all. The sun may not suffer—you'll suffer. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says that "This caste system is created by Me." If you don't accept it, then you'll suffer. Kṛṣṇa will not suffer. (leaves car) ...introducing the caste system, we are introducing a system which, you follow, you'll be happy. Not caste system. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) (in room:)

Morning Walk -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Not so early.

Śrutakīrti: And no mango for breakfast.

Prabhupāda: No. You said that the man will not like this kind of job. Eh? Therefore there must be division of job. That is cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). He is a śūdra. He does not want to produce his own food. If you give him some salary, then he will be satisfied. And then he will work with plow also. If you give him salary, he will accept that.

Paramahaṁsa: Actually in the West, more or less, that system, the division system, is accepted because we have businessmen, we have labor men, we have politicians, we have teachers and professors.

Prabhupāda: It is changed?

Śrutakīrti: Changed?

Prabhupāda: My wrapper?

Śrutakīrti: Yeah, this is the new wrapper.

Prabhupāda: New wrapper?

Śrutakīrti: I got for you in Vṛndāvana. I'd gotten it in Delhi.

Prabhupāda: With that border?

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right. Then how you got so much knowledge?

Bali-mardana: From fossils.

Prabhupāda: From bacteria? How rascals they are.

Bali-mardana: Prabhupāda, in the Bhāgavatam it also states that there are nine divisions of creation, and that in the first creation there's the plants and trees.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but these different bodies, and the soul is transmigrating, that they do not know. The soul is getting a different type of body according to his desires, not the body is developing. This I have explained many times, that you get the apartment according to the rent you are able to pay, not that a small apartment is becoming a skyscraper building. That is their theory.

Bali-mardana: But is there a great time period between the different divisions of the creation?

Prabhupāda: No, everything is there already. It becomes manifest. Just like beneath the water there is land already. And when the water will dry, land will be manifest. Not that the land is created. No, it is already there. (break)

Guru kṛpā: ...told us last time that actually the earth did not come out of the water, but the water receded, and this is how this Hawaii came.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Mrs. Wax: The four natural divisions... I understand that at Vṛndāvana, that that will be an example to American society, but how can the four natural divisions of man be translated into American society?

Prabhupāda: It has to be. If you don't, then you must suffer with all these criminals. That is natural. Just like in your body there is head, and there is arm, and there is belly, and there is leg. The head is the most important part. Why? Why not all legs? Why there are different divisions? Similarly, in the human society, if we want to make it perfect, there must be head, there must be arm, there must be belly, there must be legs. So leg can walk, but leg cannot do the work of brain. So at the present moment we have got all walking men, no brain. Therefore the society is in chaotic condition. There is no brain in the society. That is the defect of modern civilization. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). According to quality and work, there are four divisions. (aside:) You can push it back. Four divisions. So similarly, four divisions must be there: a group of men, first-class; a group of men, administrators; a group of men, food producer; and a group of men, general worker. So the brain is the chief. If your body... There are other parts, but if your head is cut off, then what is the use of other parts? If your hand is cut off, you can live. If your leg is cut off, you can live. But if your head is cut off, then finished. So that is lacking in the present society, no brain how to guide, so that whole human... If the brain is there, then it can guide. It can ask the hand to work in a certain way, the leg to work in certain way, to eat in a certain way. Then the health of the whole body will be quite competent. But if there is no brain, then everything... Just like a man becomes mad when the brain is not working.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Gītā, what mentions, do you know?

Sandy Nixon: The four castes and an untouchable caste.

Prabhupāda: What is that? On the basis of what?

Sandy Nixon: I can't locate it directly. But the Brahma...

Prabhupāda: Brahmānanda. Who has said that this is caste system? This is not caste system. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). According to quality and according to work, there are four divisions of men. Just like you can understand there are engineers and there are medical practitioners. So do you take them as caste? "Oh, he is engineer caste. He is medical caste." Do you say like that?

Sandy Nixon: I don't want to say what I feel because I'm recording you. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: I'm asking you, I'm asking you...

Sandy Nixon: Well, I think there's always been castes. It's just that we don't recognize the fact that they're there.

Prabhupāda: No, recognize means if a man is qualified medical man we accept him as medical man. And if a man is qualified engineer, we accept him as engineer. Similarly, Bhagavad-gītā suggests—not suggest, it is there—there are four classes of men, the most intelligent class of men, the administrator class of men, the productive class of men and ordinary worker. That is already there. Bhagavad-gītā says how they should be classified, that "He belongs to this class, he belongs to that class." That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, not that by birth, hereditarily, one becomes a caste. You don't try to misunderstand. The classification is already there: one class of men, very intelligent. Is he not there in the human society? Do you think all men are equally intelligent? Do you think? There must be one class, very highly intelligent class.

Morning Walk -- August 6, 1975, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Practical? What is not practical? We are not eating? We are not sleeping?

Ādi-keśava: Yes, they are saying, "Oh, when will you learn to do a trade? When will you learn to perform business, or when will you learn to become a doctor, if you are always studying..."

Prabhupāda: But you are doctor already. Why shall I become doctor? You serve me. We serve you by giving you Kṛṣṇa consciousness; you serve me as a doctor. What is the wrong there? Parasparārtham. I am for you; you are for me. Division of labor, that is accepted universally. So ask them, "Do you think that everyone should become doctor? Then where is the patient?" Eh? Everything is required. Similarly, you require our help also. It is cooperation. You know medical science; we know spiritual science. So let us exchange and be happy. Why you are envious of us? Why there is division in the body—head, arms, legs, belly? Why not everything head or everything leg? Why there is divided? That is nature. It is required. Why this road is neglected?

Mādhavānanda: It's mismanagement.

Ādi-keśava: Even they are saying that, that we don't know how to, we're not teaching anything practical.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Ādi-keśava: Even sometimes they are saying we're not teaching anything practical.

Prabhupāda: What does he mean by practical?

Ādi-keśava: Practical? They're thinking we don't know how to operate in the material world.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: In America?

Acyutānanda: Yes. And the other union is the truck driver. And no man will do the other work. Like in India, if you hire a woman to wash the pots, if you tell her to wash the pāyakhānā, she will not go. Another woman you have to get. And that protects them. That protects their employment opportunity.

Prabhupāda: Division of labor.

Acyutānanda: Division of labor.

Prabhupāda: (break)... gradually no simple life. Struggle for existence, very, very...

Acyutānanda: People confuse change for progress. When it is just changed and done in a more complicated way, they think it is called progress. That is also the Communist thing when there is protest: "Oh, well, you have to accept change. It's natural. It's a natural change."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is communal thought.

Acyutānanda: "Times are changing. You have to move. You have to change with the time."

Dayānanda: Mao says, "Revolution, constant revolution."

Acyutānanda: Yes. I asked one man. I said, "What do you have to show? What is the results? What is the results of the change? The people are still living in a hut." He says, "The struggle is what we have to show, that we had a struggle. People are not just sitting by and being exploited, but they are now struggling."

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: No, that is not the fact.

Jayādvaita: No.

Prabhupāda: The qualification.

Jayādvaita: When we present the real idea, then they're just sitting there, they have no argument. And then we challenge their system, that "What is the purpose of your society? What is the goal of it?" and they can't say anything.

Prabhupāda: Unless there is division of activity, nothing can be done perfectly well. The natural division is there in the body—the head, the arms, the belly and the legs. Similarly, in the social body also there must be the heads, the intelligent class of men, brāhmaṇa. Then everything will go on smoothly. And, at the present moment, there is no intelligent class of men. All laborer, worker class of men, fourth class. No first class, second class. Therefore society is in chaotic condition. There is no brain.

Jayādvaita: Their only objection, when we present that there's brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa, then they become automatically hostile, because they understand that we're against sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sense gratification is animal civilization. And sense control is human civ.... Sense gratification is not human society. Sense gratification is not human civilization. That they do not know. Their central point is sense gratification. That is the defect. They are running on an animal civilization as human civilization. That is the defect. Sense gratification is animal civilization. And actually they are animals. If they can kill their own child, it is animal. Just like cats, dogs, they kill their own child. What is that? It is animal civilization. Who was talking that child is put into the, what is that, left luggage?

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: "You require brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas and śūdras. Just as when you want to construct a building you require engineers. You don't want sweepers. Isn't that so? What will the sweeper do? No. There must be engineers. So if you follow the division of varṇāśrama, only kṣatriyas are allowed to govern. And for the legislative assembly, the senators, only qualified brāhmaṇas. Now the butcher is in the legislative assembly. What does he know about making laws? He is a butcher. But by winning votes he becomes a senator. At the present moment, by the principle of vox populi, a butcher goes to the legislature. So everything depends on training. In our Kṛṣṇa consciousness society we are actually doing that. But in the case of politics they forget it. There cannot be just one class. That is foolishness. Because we have to engage different classes of men in different activities. If we do not know the art then we will fail, because unless there is a division of work there will be havoc. We have discussed all the responsibilities of the king in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The different classes in society should cooperate exactly as the different parts of the body do. Although each part is meant for a different purpose, they all work for one cause, to maintain the body properly."

Reporter: "What is the actual duty of the government?"

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Just like eating. You are eating meat, you can give it up. If you think it is not good, you can give it up. What is the wrong there?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you think giving examples, or like making a division of these animals under category of these three modes is not proper? After all, all the modes are mixed. Now can we say that a cow is, although there are other modes, but predominantly the mode of goodness?

Prabhupāda: Predominantly ignorance. Cow, just like cows, or, yes...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Cows, then tigers, lions we can give predominantly passion. Now coming to either camels or pigs we can call ignorance.

Prabhupāda: So many, very subtle, subtle mixture. That subtleness of mixture is impossible for you to analyze.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, that's true. So we shouldn't do this?

Prabhupāda: Therefore it is said daiva-netreṇa, superior administration. You cannot do it.

Rūpānuga: We have to simply teach them that evolution really means some...

Prabhupāda: It's taking place in this way, that's all. That much you can say. You cannot actually analyze a particular body, what percentage of this or... That's impossible.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that good quality is God consciousness. So unless humanity comes to the position of God consciousness, unless he thinks that everything belongs to God, there is no question of humanity. That is "dognity," doggish mentality. Humanity means that he understands that everything belongs to God, I am servant of God. That is humanity. Otherwise, there is no question of humanity. If you think like dog, where is humanity?

Dayānanda: They think that everything belongs to humanity as a group.

Prabhupāda: But that is not practical. Everything belongs to the humanity, then why you are making divisions of nations?

Dayānanda: That's what they say, that that is the problem.

Prabhupāda: And the problem will continue because you are taking account a section of living entity. You, because you have no idea of dog and other animals, what they are, they are also sons of God. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Find out. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ. Unless you come to this understanding, there is no question of humanity. This is the humanity understanding. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ.

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it is banned now. So Blitz said, "And now it's ISKCON-MRA-Anand Marg." So ISKCON is replying. ISKCON: "Blitz is trying to link us with banned organizations like MRA and Anand Marg. We challenge Blitz to show any of our activity that is dangerous to the Indian society. Our only business is to follow Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is all we are asking others to do also. We're not engaged in any political activity either. So how can Blitz compare us to banned organizations like MRA and Anand Marg?" So this is my reply to point two. "Point three. Blitz: ISKCON was founded in New York in July, 1966. ISKCON: Yes, ISKCON was registered in New York by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. Bhaktivedanta Swami went to America at the advanced age of 70 to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness because he was ordered so by his spiritual master, Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Prabhupāda, the founder-ācārya of Gauḍīya Maṭha institutions in India, to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness to the Western countries. Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Prabhupāda strongly desired that the whole world accept Lord Kṛṣṇa's teachings and therefore he ordered his most educated and sincere disciple, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda in 1936 to spread these teachings to the Western world. Bhaktivedanta Swami started translating Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Caitanya-caritāmṛta and Bhagavad-gītā in 1936. When the late prime minister, Shri Lal Bahadur Sastri, saw Bhaktivedanta Swami's Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, he said, "His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda is doing valuable work, and his books are a significant contribution to the salvation of mankind.' Presently Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, a division of ISKCON has published over sixty books of Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. These include Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 25 volumes, and Caitanya-caritāmṛta, 17 volumes. These books have been acclaimed by both Indian and Western scholars. The books are being used by about three thousand universities all over the world, including Oxford, Cambridge, and Harvard universities. In India, in the last four months, close to four hundred institutes have placed standing orders on Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda's books."

Prabhupāda: Calcutta University purchased.

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: Huh? It is not caste system. It is division of labor. It is not caste system. A class of men must be intelligent, a class of men must be strong to give protection. And a class of men must be to produce food, and a class of men, general worker. It is not caste system. Bhagavad-gītā never says caste system. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). According to quality and work. You have made it caste system. You have no qualification of a brāhmaṇa, you are calling, "I am brāhmaṇa." That is caste system. But if you have got the quality of a brāhmaṇa and you work as a brāhmaṇa, that is necessary. That is necessary. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Could we just take two minutes of your time? This is a review from Śrī Baradraj, Principle of Government College for Men, Chandigarh. He says, "Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is one of the great classics of India. This commentary is a significant contribution to the religious literature of this country. Many of the conflicting views on certain ślokas have been beautifully resolved by Swamiji. I congratulate the members of the Society for bringing out this wonderful work in such a lucid form. I shall be looking forward to the other publications." This is a review from Dr. Varsneya (?), senior professor and Head of Hindi Department, Dean and Curator of Arts, honorary librarian, Allahabad University, Allahabad. "Śrī A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda has really done a great service to Indian philosophy, religion and culture by translating Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam into English, with learned commentaries, and has thus provided source material to the Western world. Other philosophical and religious works published by the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust also present a golden opportunity to the Western philosophers and scholars to drink deep at the celestial fountain of ancient Indian philosophy and spiritual wisdom." I'm just reading a few very quick ones. There's one from a leading professor in Chandigarh who you must be knowing. Dr. Jagadish Sharma, M.A., (indistinct) Delhi? He's from Punjab University. Author of nineteen books including Encyclopedia of India. So here is what Dr. Sharma says. "India's contribution towards the revivalism of the Hindu civilization culture by way of printing the Harvard Oriental Series was tremendous. But the work done by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda is unsurpassable." He says it's even greater.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: Yes, the next day.

Prabhupāda: That's good.

Satsvarūpa: Then our next business was the division of the zones.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Where is our Bhagavān dāsa?

Satsvarūpa: Starting with South America... South America's responsibilities would be divided between Pañcadraviḍa Swami and Hṛdayānanda Mahārāja like this: Pañcadraviḍa would be responsible for the temples in Mexico and Central America, Guyana, Santo Domingo and Trinidad. And he will also work as required in the Los Angeles Spanish BBT office. And Hṛdayānanda Mahārāja will retain direct responsibility for Brazil, Venezuela, Colombia, Peru, Chile and Ecuador, and also he was going to take on co-GBC responsibilities in Spain and Portugal, which are the same language as the books he's printing in, along with Bhagavān, in whose zone that is, Spain and Portugal in Europe, for spreading Spanish book distribution. And as for the BBT duties that Hṛdayānanda Mahārāja has, he will have Pañcadraviḍa Mahārāja assist him in that also. We passed a resolution about...

Prabhupāda: What about the French printing and translation? That is stopped now?

Hṛdayānanda: No, it is not... It is not altogether stopped, but some members have left.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some members have left, but...

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: He's in charge of Russia. So "consulting" means? We shall not go? Who will do and whom...?

Satsvarūpa: Well, say someone else, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa or someone, wanted to go to Russia to do some preaching, they would first approach Harikeśa Mahārāja and say what they wanted to do, work together with him.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Satsvarūpa: Then the division of the United States.

Prabhupāda: Gopāla Kṛṣṇa went to Russia. He did some work. How GBC appreciate that work? Do they appreciate or not?

Jayatīrtha: It appears that he several nice orders and reviews from the universities there.

Prabhupāda: So?

Rāmeśvara: It's considered a breakthrough. It's considered a great achievement...

Prabhupāda: Yes, then...

Rāmeśvara: ...his work in Russia.

Prabhupāda: Then why, if he continues like that, what is the wrong there?

Harikeśa: I had a few objections which I didn't bring up as a whole.

Prabhupāda: What is that objection?

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is all right.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We have sent them also books.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ekala eka.(?) One man's conclusion is not good. Better consult with him. Then?

Satsvarūpa: Then for the division of the United States, for myself, for being editor of Back to Godhead, I would go to Los Angeles for that, Back to Godhead, but would also supervise the Northwest US zone, which includes Berkeley, California; Seattle, Portland, Vancouver, and the Dallas temple. Rāmeśvara Mahārāja would continue being the GBC for Los Angeles, San Diego, Laguna Beach, and Denver. Balavanta Prabhu would keep his same zone—Atlanta; the Tennessee farm; Gainesville and Miami, Florida; New Orleans and the Mississippi farm; and Houston, Texas. Rūpānuga would also keep his same zone—Washington, D.C.; Baltimore; Philadelphia; St. Louis; the St. Louis farm; Ottawa; and Montreal, Canada. Kīrtanānanda would keep his same zone—New Vrindaban, Buffalo, Toronto, Pittsburgh and Cleveland. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja was accepted as your permanent secretary, and therefore, for the vacancy created in his absence in New York, Pennsylvania farm, Boston, Puerto Rico...

Rāmeśvara: And Rādhā-Dāmodara.

Satsvarūpa: ...and the Rādhā-Dāmodara party, it was decided that he should keep the responsibility of being the GBC for that area. However, Ādi-keśava Mahārāja will act as special assistant to the GBC and take the on-the-spot responsibility.

Prabhupāda: That means he'll be trained up in his place. Is it not?

Room Conversation -- June 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So our map here, Śrīla Prabhupāda, one centimeter equals 2,000 yojanas. So this is fifty centimeters, so it equals 100,000 yojanas. It also... For anyone who is counting, four of these boxes equal one centimeter. So simply by counting this, one can understand how many yojanas each thing... This is exactly to scale. It's done very precisely to scale.

Yaśodānandana: And it describes, "In Jambūdvīpa there are nine divisions of land, each with a length of 9,000 yojanas, 72,000 miles: Bhārata-varṣa, Kimpuruṣa-varṣa, Hari-varṣa, Bhadra-varṣa, Ilāvṛta-varṣa, Ketumāla-varṣa, Ramyaka-varṣa, Hiraṇmaya-varṣa, and Kuru-varṣa. There are eight mountains that mark the boundaries of these divisions and separate them nicely. Starting with the Himalayas"—that's the first mountain—"Hemakūṭa Parvata"—second mountain—"Niṣadha Parvata"—third mountain—it goes... This... "Gandhamādana Parvata, which is the east side of Sumeru, and then Mālyavān Mountain on the west side..."

Bhakti-prema(?): Nīla mountain, north; Śveta mountain, next; and Śṛṅgavān Mountain, north.

Yaśodānandana: Maybe you can explain that Sanskrit purport also?

Bhakti-prema: (Sanskrit) It is bow-shaped. Bhārata-varṣa is bow-shaped, and this Bhadra-varṣa is again bow-shaped, Kuru-varṣa, again bow-shaped, and this Ketumāla-varṣa, again... So they were shaped. (Sanskrit) That means thirty-four yojanas...

Prabhupāda: Thousand yojanas.

Bhu-mandala Diagram Discussion -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In other words, Śrīla Prabhupāda, Priyavrata had seven children on seven islands, and each one of them had seven children. So each son of Priyavrata divided his island in seven parts, and it was given to one of the grandsons of Priyavrata. We could not show that because it's so small. This is drawn exactly to scale. In order to include all of the Bhū-maṇḍala we had to make everything up very small because, as you'll see, most of Bhū-maṇḍala is made of Loka-varṣa and Lokāloka mountain. Everything else is very small compared to those two.

Yaśodā-nandana: Surrounding the sugarcane ocean, there is Śālmalidvīpa, where again there are seven divisions of land, seven rivers...

Prabhupāda: So island and surrounded by ocean, like that.

Bhakti-prema: Yes.

Yaśodā-nandana: Śālmalidvīpa is this purple here. Still, it is very difficult to see. And surrounding Śālmalidvīpa is an ocean of liquor, Surā-sāgara. There's an ocean of liquor. There is Kuśadvīpa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which one is that?

Yaśodā-nandana: The little red circle is the Surā-sāgara. Then the little green here is the Kuśadvīpa. One particular feature of this land is that there's very..., kuśa grass, which is very, very cooling. It is all over the island. And then there is the ghee ocean which is surrounding Kuśadvīpa. That is the dark green.