The Lord was then married with great pomp and gaiety, and at this time He began to preach the congregational chanting of the holy name of, the Lord at Navadvīpa. Some of the brāhmaṇas became envious of His popularity, and they put many hindrances on His path. They were so jealous that they finally took the matter before the Muslim magistrate at Navadvīpa. Bengal was then governed by Pathans, and the governor of the province was Nawab Hussain Shah. The Muslim magistrate of Navadvīpa took up the complaints of the brāhmaṇas seriously, and at first he warned the followers of Nimāi Paṇḍita not to chant loudly the name of Hari. But Lord Caitanya asked His followers to disobey the orders of the Kazi, and they went on with their saṅkīrtana (chanting) party as usual. The magistrate then sent constables who interrupted a saṅkīrtana and broke some of the mṛdaṅgas (drums). When Nimāi Paṇḍita heard of this incident He organized a party for civil disobedience. He is the pioneer of the civil disobedience movement in India for the right cause. He organized a procession of one hundred thousand men with thousands of mṛdaṅgas and karatālas (hand cymbals), and this procession passed over the roads of Navadvīpa in defiance of the Kazi who had issued the order. Finally the procession reached the house of the Kazi, who went upstairs out of fear of the masses. The great crowds assembled at the Kazi's house displayed a violent temper, but the Lord asked them to be peaceful. At this time the Kazi came down and tried to pacify the Lord by addressing Him as his nephew. He pointed out that Nīlāmbara Cakravartī referred to him as an uncle, and consequently, Śrīmatī Śacīdevī, the mother of Nimāi Paṇḍita, was his sister. He asked the Lord whether his sister's son could be angry at His maternal uncle, and the Lord replied that since the Kazi was His maternal uncle he should receive his nephew well at his home. In this way the issue was mitigated, and the two learned scholars began a long discussion on the Koran and Hindu śāstras. The Lord raised the question of cow-killing, and the Kazi properly answered Him by referring to the Koran. In turn the Kazi also questioned the Lord about cow sacrifice in the Vedas, and the Lord replied that such sacrifice as mentioned in the Vedas is not actually cow-killing. In that sacrifice an old bull or cow was sacrificed for the sake of receiving a fresh younger life by the power of Vedic mantras. But in the Kali-yuga such cow sacrifices are forbidden because there are no qualified brāhmaṇas capable of conducting such a sacrifice. In fact, in Kali-yuga all yajñas (sacrifices) are forbidden because they are useless attempts by foolish men. In Kali-yuga only the saṅkīrtana yajña is recommended for all practical purposes. Speaking in this way, the Lord finally convinced the Kazi, who became the Lord's follower. The Kazi thenceforth declared that no one should hinder the saṅkīrtana movement which was started by the Lord, and the Kazi left this order in his will for the sake of progeny. The Kazi's tomb still exists in the area of Navadvīpa, and Hindu pilgrims go there to show their respects. The Kazi's descendants are residents, and they never objected to saṅkīrtana, even during the Hindu-Muslim riot days.
Discussion between Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Chand Kazi
Expressions researched:
"caitanya"
|"kazi"
Srimad-Bhagavatam
SB Preface and Introduction
SB Canto 1
It is nonsensical to say that animal-killing has nothing to do with spiritual realization. By this dangerous theory many so-called sannyāsīs have sprung up by the grace of Kali-yuga who preach animal-killing under the garb of the Vedas. The subject matter has already been discussed in the conversation between Lord Caitanya and Maulana Chand Kazi Shaheb. The animal sacrifice as stated in the Vedas is different from the unrestricted animal-killing in the slaughterhouse.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta
CC Adi-lila
In this chapter we shall find descriptions of the mango distribution festival and Lord Caitanya's discourses with Chand Kazi.
The Lord said, "My dear uncle, I have come to your home just to ask you some questions."
"Yes," the Kazi replied, "You are welcome. Just tell me what is in Your mind."
The Lord said, “You drink cows' milk; therefore the cow is your mother. And the bull produces grains for your maintenance; therefore he is your father.
"Since the bull and cow are your father and mother, how can you kill and eat them? What kind of religious principle is this? On what strength are you so daring that you commit such sinful activities?"
Everyone can understand that we drink the milk of cows and take the help of bulls in producing agricultural products. Therefore, since our real father gives us food grains and our mother gives us milk with which to live, the cow and bull are considered our father and mother. According to Vedic civilization, there are seven mothers, of which the cow is one. Therefore Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu challenged the Muslim Kazi, "What kind of religious principle do you follow by killing your father and mother to eat them?" In any civilized human society, no one would dare kill his father and mother for the purpose of eating them. Therefore Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu challenged the system of Muslim religion as patricide and matricide. In the Christian religion also, a principal commandment is "Thou shalt not kill." Nevertheless, Christians violate this rule; they are very expert in killing and in opening slaughterhouses. In our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, our first provision is that no one should be allowed to eat any kind of flesh. It does not matter whether it is cows' flesh or goats' flesh, but we especially stress the prohibition against cows' flesh because according to śāstra the cow is our mother. Thus the Muslims' cow-killing was challenged by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
The Kazi replied, “As You have Your scriptures called the Vedas and Purāṇas, we have our scripture, known as the holy Koran.
Chand Kazi agreed to talk with Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu on the strength of the scriptures. According to the Vedic scripture, if one can support his position by quoting from the Vedas, his argument is perfect. Similarly, when the Muslims support their position with quotations from the Koran, their arguments are also authorized. When Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu raised the question of the Muslims' cow-killing and bull-killing, Chand Kazi came to the standard of understanding from his scriptures.
“According to the Koran, there are two ways of advancement—through increasing the propensity to enjoy, and through decreasing the propensity to enjoy. On the path of decreasing attachment (nivṛtti-mārga), the killing of animals is prohibited.
"On the path of material activities, there is regulation for killing cows. If such killing is done under the guidance of scripture, there is no sin."
The word śāstra is derived from the dhātu, or verbal root, śas. Śas-dhātu pertains to controlling or ruling. A government's ruling through force or weapons is called śastra. Thus whenever there is ruling, either by weapons or by injunctions, the śas-dhātu is the basic principle. Between śastra (ruling through weapons) and śāstra (ruling through the injunctions of the scriptures), the better is śāstra. Our Vedic scriptures are not ordinary lawbooks of human common sense; they are the statements of factually liberated persons unaffected by the imperfectness of the senses.
Śāstra must be correct always, not sometimes correct and sometimes incorrect. In the Vedic scriptures, the cow is described as a mother. Therefore she is a mother for all time; it is not, as some rascals say, that in the Vedic age she was a mother but she is not in this age. If śāstra is an authority, the cow is a mother always; she was a mother in the Vedic age, and she is a mother in this age also.
If one acts according to the injunctions of śāstra, he is freed from the reactions of sinful activity. For example, the propensities for eating flesh, drinking wine and enjoying sex are all natural to the conditioned soul. The path of such enjoyment is called pravṛtti-marga. The śāstra says, pravṛttir eṣā bhūtānāṁ nivṛttis tu mahā-phalā: one should not be carried away by the propensities of defective conditioned life; one should be guided by the principles of the śāstras. A child's propensity is to play all day long, but it is the injunction of the śāstras that the parents should take care to educate him. The śāstras are there just to guide the activities of human society. But because people do not refer to the instructions of śāstras, which are free from defects and imperfections, they are therefore misguided by so-called educated teachers and leaders who are full of the deficiencies of conditioned life.
As a learned scholar, the Kazi challenged Caitanya Mahāprabhu, "In Your Vedic scriptures there is an injunction for killing a cow. On the strength of this injunction, great sages performed sacrifices involving cow-killing."
Refuting the Kazi's statement, the Lord immediately replied, “The Vedas clearly enjoin that cows should not be killed. Therefore every Hindu, whoever he may be, avoids indulging in cow-killing.
In the Vedic scriptures there are concessions for meat-eaters. It is said that if one wants to eat meat, he should kill a goat before the goddess Kālī and then eat its meat. Meat-eaters are not allowed to purchase meat or flesh from a market or slaughterhouse. There are no sanctions for maintaining regular slaughterhouses to satisfy the tongues of meat-eaters. As far as cow-killing is concerned, it is completely forbidden. Since the cow is considered a mother, how could the Vedas allow cow-killing? Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu pointed out that the Kazi's statement was faulty. In the Bhagavad-gītā (18.44) there is a clear injunction that cows should be protected: kṛṣi-gorakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam. "The duty of vaiśyas is to produce agricultural products, trade and give protection to cows." Therefore it is a false statement that the Vedic scriptures contain injunctions permitting cow-killing.
“In the Vedas and Purāṇas there are injunctions declaring that if one can revive a living being, one can kill it for experimental purposes.
“Therefore the great sages sometimes killed old cows, and by chanting Vedic hymns they brought them back to life for perfection.
“The killing and rejuvenation of such old and invalid cows was not truly killing but an act of great benefit.
“Formerly there were powerful brāhmaṇas who could make such experiments using Vedic hymns, but now, because of the Kali-yuga, brāhmaṇas are not so powerful. Therefore the killing of cows and bulls for rejuvenation is forbidden.
"'In this Age of Kali, five acts are forbidden: the offering of a horse in sacrifice, the offering of a cow in sacrifice, the acceptance of the order of sannyāsa, the offering of oblations of flesh to the forefathers, and a man"s begetting children in his brother's wife.'
This is a quotation from the Brahma-vaivarta Purāṇa (Kṛṣṇa-janma-khaṇḍa 185.180).
“Since you Muslims cannot bring killed cows back to life, you are responsible for killing them. Therefore you are going to hell; there is no way for your deliverance.
“Cow-killers are condemned to rot in hellish life for as many thousands of years as there are hairs on the body of the cow.
"There are many mistakes and illusions in your scriptures. Their compilers, not knowing the essence of knowledge, gave orders that were against reason and argument."
After hearing these statements by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, the Kazi, his arguments stunned, could not put forward any more words. Thus, after due consideration, the Kazi accepted defeat and spoke as follows.
In our practical preaching work we meet many Christians who talk about statements of the Bible. When we question whether God is limited or unlimited, Christian priests say that God is unlimited. But when we question why the unlimited God should have only one son and not unlimited sons, they are unable to answer. Similarly, from a scientific point of view, the answers of the Old Testament, New Testament and Koran to many questions have changed. But a śāstra cannot change at a person's whim. All śāstras must be free from the four defects of human nature. The statements of śāstras must be correct for all time.
“My dear Nimāi Paṇḍita, what You have said is all true. Our scriptures have developed only recently, and they are certainly not logical and philosophical.
The śāstras of the yavanas, or meat-eaters, are not eternal scriptures. They have been fashioned recently, and sometimes they contradict one another. The scriptures of the yavanas are three: the Old Testament, the New Testament and the Koran. Their compilation has a history; they are not eternal like the Vedic knowledge. Therefore although they have their arguments and reasonings, they are not very sound and transcendental. As such, modern people advanced in science and philosophy deem these scriptures unacceptable.
Sometimes Christian priests come to us inquiring, "Why are our followers neglecting our scriptures and accepting yours?" But when we ask them, "Your Bible says, "Do not kill." Why then are you killing so many animals daily?" they cannot answer. Some of them imperfectly answer that the animals have no souls. But then we ask them, "How do you know that animals have no souls? Animals and children are of the same nature. Does this mean that the children of human society also have no souls?" According to the Vedic scriptures, within the body is the owner of the body, the soul. In the Bhagavad-gītā (2.13) it is said:
- dehino ’smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
- tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati
"As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change."
Because the soul is within the body, the body changes through so many forms. There is a soul within the body of every living creature, whether animal, tree, bird or human being, and the soul is transmigrating from one type of body to another. When the scriptures of the yavanas—namely the Old Testament, New Testament and Koran—cannot properly answer inquisitive followers, naturally those advanced in scientific knowledge and philosophy lose faith in such scriptures. The Kazi admitted this while talking with Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. The Kazi was a very intelligent person. He had full knowledge of his position, as stated in the following verse.
“I know that our scriptures are full of imagination and mistaken ideas, yet because I am a Muslim I accept them for the sake of my community, despite their insufficient support.
"The reasoning and arguments in the scriptures of the meat-eaters are not very sound," the Kazi concluded. Upon hearing this statement, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu smiled and inquired from him as follows.
“My dear maternal uncle, I wish to ask you another question. Please tell Me the truth. Do not try to cheat Me with tricks
“In your city there is always congregational chanting of the holy name. A tumultuous uproar of music, singing and dancing is always going on.
"As a Muslim magistrate, you have the right to oppose the performance of Hindu ceremonies, but now you do not forbid them. I cannot understand the reason why."
The Kazi said, “Everyone calls You Gaurahari. Please let me address You by that name.
"Kindly listen, O Gaurahari! If You come to a private place, I shall then explain the reason."
The Lord replied, "All these men are My confidential associates. You may speak frankly. There is no reason to be afraid of them."
The Kazi said, “When I went to the Hindu's house, broke the drum and forbade the performance of congregational chanting, in my dreams that very night I saw a greatly fearful lion, roaring very loudly, His body like a human being's and His face like a lion's.
“While I was asleep, the lion jumped on my chest, laughing fiercely and gnashing His teeth.
“Placing its nails on my chest, the lion said in a grave voice, ‘I shall immediately bifurcate your chest as you broke the mṛdaṅga drum!
“'You have forbidden the performance of My congregational chanting. Therefore I must destroy you!' Being very much afraid of Him, I closed my eyes and trembled.
“Seeing me so afraid, the lion said, ‘I have defeated you just to teach you a lesson, but I must be merciful to you.
“‘On that day you did not create a very great disturbance. Therefore I have excused you and not taken your life.
“'But if you perform such activities again, I shall not be tolerant. At that time I shall kill you, your entire family and all the meat-eaters.'
"After saying this, the lion left, but I was very much afraid of Him. Just see the marks of His nails on my heart!"
After this description, the Kazi showed his chest. Having heard him and seen the marks, all the people there accepted the wonderful incident.
The Kazi continued, “I did not speak to anyone about this incident, but on that very day one of my orderlies came to see me.
“After coming to me, the orderly said, ‘When I went to stop the congregational chanting, suddenly flames struck my face.
“'My beard was burned, and there were blisters on my cheeks.' Every orderly who went gave the same description.
“After seeing this, I was very much afraid. I asked them not to stop the congregational chanting but to go sit down at home.
“Then all the meat-eaters, hearing that there would be unrestricted congregational chanting in the city, came to submit a petition.
“'The religion of the Hindus has increased unlimitedly. There are always vibrations of "Hari! Hari!" We do not hear anything but this.'
“One meat-eater said, ‘The Hindus say, "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa," and they laugh, cry, dance, chant and fall on the ground, smearing their bodies with dirt.
“'Vibrating "Hari, Hari," the Hindus make a tumultuous sound. If the king (pātasāha) hears it, certainly he will punish you.'
Pātasāha refers to the king. Nawab Hussain Shah, whose full name was Ālā Uddīn Saiyad Husen Sā, was at that time (A.D. 1498–1521) the independent King of Bengal. Formerly he was the servant of the cruel Nawab of the Hābsī dynasty named Mujaḥphara Khān, but somehow or other he assassinated his master and became the King. After gaining the throne of Bengal (technically called Masnada), he declared himself Saiyad Husen Ālā Uddīn Seriph Mukkā. There is a book called Riyāja Us-salātina, whose author, Golām Husen, says that Nawab Hussain Shah belonged to the family of Mukkā Seriph. To keep his family's glory, he took the name Seriph Mukkā. Generally, however, he is known as Nawab Hussain Shah. After his death, his eldest son, Nasaratsā, became King of Bengal (A.D. 1521–1533). This King also was very cruel. He committed many atrocities against the Vaiṣṇavas. As a result of his sinful activities, one of his servants from the Khojā group killed him while he was praying in the mosque.
“I then inquired from these yavanas, ‘I know that these Hindus by nature chant "Hari, Hari."
“'The Hindus chant the name Hari because that is the name of their God. But you are Muslim meat-eaters. Why do you chant the name of the Hindus' God?’
“The meat-eater replied, ‘Sometimes I joke with the Hindus. Some of them are called Kṛṣṇadāsa, and some are called Rāmadāsa.
“‘Some of them are called Haridāsa. They always chant "Hari, Hari," and thus I thought they would steal the riches from someone's house.
Another meaning of "Hari, Hari" is "I am stealing. I am stealing."
“'Since that time, my tongue also always vibrates the sound "Hari, Hari." I have no desire to say it, but still my tongue says it. I do not know what to do.'
Sometimes demoniac nonbelievers, not understanding the potency of the holy name, make fun of the Vaiṣṇavas when the Vaiṣṇavas chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. This joking is also beneficial for such persons. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Sixth Canto, Second Chapter, verse 14, indicates that the chanting of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, even in joking, in the course of ordinary discussion, in indicating something extraneous, or in negligence, is called nāmābhāsa, which is chanting that is almost on the transcendental stage. This nāmābhāsa stage is better than nāmāparādha. Nāmābhāsa awakens the supreme remembrance of Lord Viṣṇu. When one remembers Lord Viṣṇu, he becomes free from material enjoyment. Thus he gradually comes forward toward the transcendental service of the Lord and becomes eligible to chant the holy name of the Lord in the transcendental position.
“Another meat-eater said, 'Sir, please hear me. Since the day I joked with some Hindus in this way, my tongue chants the Hare Kṛṣṇa hymn and cannot give it up. I do not know what mystic hymns and herbal potions these Hindus know.'
“After hearing all this, I sent all the mlecchas back to their homes. Five or seven nonbelieving Hindus then approached me.
The word pāṣaṇḍī refers to nonbelievers engaged in fruitive activities and to idolatrous worshipers of many demigods. Pāṣaṇḍīs do not believe in one God, the Supreme Personality, Lord Viṣṇu; they think that all the demigods have the same potency as He. The definition of a pāṣaṇḍī is given in the tantra-śāstra:
- yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ devaṁ brahma-rudrādi-daivataiḥ
- samatvenaiva vīkṣeta sa pāṣaṇḍī bhaved dhruvam
- (CC Madhya 18.116)
"A pāṣaṇḍī is one who considers the great demigods such as Lord Brahmā and Lord Śiva equal to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Nārāyaṇa." (Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, 1.17)
The Supreme Personality of Godhead is asamaurdhva; in other words, no one can be equal to or greater than Him. But pāṣaṇḍīs do not believe this. They worship any kind of demigod, thinking it all right to accept whomever they please as the Supreme Lord. The pāṣaṇḍīs were against the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and now we see practically that they also do not like our humble attempts to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world. On the contrary, these pāṣaṇḍīs say that we are spoiling the Hindu religion because people all over the world are accepting Lord Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead according to the version of Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. The pāṣaṇḍīs condemn this movement, and sometimes they accuse Vaiṣṇavas from foreign countries of being not bona fide. Even so-called Vaiṣṇavas—pseudo followers of the Vaiṣṇava cult—do not agree with our activities in making Vaiṣṇavas in the Western countries. Such pāṣaṇḍīs existed even during the time of Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and they continue to exist. Despite all the activities of these pāṣaṇḍīs, however, the prediction of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu will triumph: pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma/ sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma. "In every town and village, the chanting of My name will be heard." No one can check the spread of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement because upon this movement is the benediction of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
“Coming to me, the Hindus complained, ‘Nimāi Paṇḍita has broken the Hindu religious principles. He has introduced the saṅkīrtana system, which we never heard from any scripture.
“‘When we keep a night-long vigil to observe religious performances for the worship of Maṅgalacaṇḍī and Viṣahari, playing on musical instruments, dancing and chanting are certainly fitting customs.
“‘Nimāi Paṇḍita was previously a very good boy, but since He has returned from Gayā He conducts Himself differently.
“‘Now He loudly sings all kinds of songs, claps, and plays drums and hand cymbals, making a tumultuous sound that deafens our ears.
“‘We do not know what He eats that makes Him become mad, dancing, singing, sometimes laughing, crying, falling down, jumping up and rolling on the ground.
“‘He has made all the people practically mad by always performing congregational chanting. At night we cannot get any sleep; we are always kept awake.
“‘Now He has given up His own name Nimāi and introduced Himself by the name Gaurahari. He has spoiled the Hindu religious principles and introduced the irreligion of nonbelievers.
“‘Now the lower classes are chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra again and again. For this sinful activity, the entire city of Navadvīpa will become deserted.
“'According to Hindu scripture, God's name is the most powerful hymn. If everyone hears the chanting of the name, the potency of the hymn will be lost.
In the list of offenses in the chanting of the holy name of the Lord, it is said, dharma-vrata-tyāga-hutādi-sarva-śubha-kriyā-sāmyam api pramādaḥ: to consider the chanting of the holy name of the Lord equal to the execution of some auspicious religious ceremony is an offense. According to the materialistic point of view, observing a religious ceremony invokes an auspicious atmosphere for the material benefit of the entire world. Materialists therefore manufacture religious principles to live comfortably and without disturbance in executing their material activities. Since they do not believe in the existence of God, they have manufactured the idea that God is impersonal and that to have some conception of God one may imagine any form. Thus they respect the many forms of the demigods as different representations or manifestations of the Lord. They are called bahv-īśvara-vādīs, or followers of thousands and thousands of gods. They consider the chanting of the names of the demigods an auspicious activity. Great so-called svāmīs have written books saying that one may chant any name—Durgā, Kālī, Śiva, Kṛṣṇa, Rāma, and so on—because any name is all right for invoking an auspicious atmosphere in society. Thus they are called pāṣaṇḍīs—unbelievers or faithless demons.
Such pāṣaṇḍīs do not know the actual value of the chanting of the holy name of Lord Kṛṣṇa. Foolishly proud of their material birth as brāhmaṇas and their consequently higher position in the social order, they think of the other classes—namely the kṣatriyas, vaiśyas and śūdras—as lower classes. According to them, no one but the brāhmaṇas can chant the holy name of Kṛṣṇa, for if others chanted the holy name, its potency would be reduced. They are unaware of the potency of Lord Kṛṣṇa's name. The Bṛhan-nāradīya Purāṇa recommends:
- harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam
- kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā
- (CC Adi 17.21)
"For spiritual progress in this Age of Kali, there is no alternative, no alternative, no alternative to the holy name, the holy name, the holy name of the Lord." The pāṣaṇḍīs do not accept that the potency of the holy name of Kṛṣṇa is so great that one can be delivered simply by chanting the holy name, although this is confirmed in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (12.3.51): kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet. Any man from any part of the world who practices chanting of the holy name of Kṛṣṇa can be liberated and after death go back home, back to Godhead. The rascal pāṣaṇḍīs think that if anyone but a brāhmaṇa chants the holy name, the potency of the holy name is vanquished. According to their judgment, instead of delivering the fallen souls, the potency of the holy name is reduced. Believing in the existence of many gods and considering the chanting of the holy name of Kṛṣṇa no better than other hymns, these pāṣaṇḍīs do not believe in the words of the śāstra (harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam). But Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu confirms in His Śikṣāṣṭaka, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ: (CC Adi 17.31) one must chant the holy name of the Lord always, twenty-four hours a day. The pāṣaṇḍīs, however, are so fallen and falsely proud of having taken birth in brāhmaṇa families that they think that instead of delivering all the fallen souls, the holy name becomes impotent when constantly chanted by lower-class men.
Significant in verse 211 are the words kṛṣṇera kīrtana kare nīca bāḍa bāḍa, indicating that anyone can join in the saṅkīrtana movement. This is confirmed in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (2.4.18): kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ. This is a list of the names of caṇḍālas. The pāṣaṇḍīs say that when these lower-class men are allowed to chant, their influence is enhanced. They do not like the idea that others should also develop spiritual qualities, because this would curb their false pride in having taken birth in families of the elevated brāhmaṇa caste, with a monopoly on spiritual activities. But despite all protests from so-called Hindus and members of the brāhmaṇa caste, we are propagating the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement all over the world, according to the injunctions of the śāstras and the order of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Thus we are sure that we are delivering many fallen souls, making them bona fide candidates for going back home, back to Godhead.
“'Sir, you are the ruler of this town. Whether Hindu or Muslim, everyone is under your protection. Therefore please call Nimāi Paṇḍita and make Him leave the town.'
The word ṭhākura has two meanings. One meaning is "God" or "a godly person," and another meaning is kṣatriya. Here the pāṣaṇḍī brāhmaṇas address the Kazi as ṭhākura, considering him the ruler of the town. There are different names by which to address the members of different castes. The brāhmaṇas are addressed as mahārāja, the kṣatriyas as ṭhākura, the vaiśyas as śetha or mahājana, and the śūdras as caudhurī. This etiquette is still followed in northern India, where the kṣatriyas are addressed as Ṭhākura Sāhab. The pāsaṇḍīs went so far as to request the magistrate, or Kazi, to have Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu expelled from the town because of His introducing hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana. Fortunately our Hare Kṛṣṇa movement all over the world, especially in the civilized world of Europe and America, has become very popular. Generally no one complains against us to have us removed from a city. Although such an attempt was indeed made in Melbourne, Australia, the attempt failed. Thus we are now introducing this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement in great cities of the world like New York, London, Paris, Tokyo, Sydney, Melbourne and Auckland, and by the grace of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu everything is going on nicely. People are happy to accept the principle of chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and the result is most satisfactory.
“After hearing their complaints, in sweet words I told them, 'Please go back home. I shall certainly prohibit Nimāi Paṇḍita from continuing His Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.'
"I know that Nārāyaṇa is the Supreme God of the Hindus, and I think that You are the same Nārāyaṇa. This I feel within my mind."
After hearing the Kazi speak so nicely, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu touched him and smilingly spoke as follows.
“The chanting of the holy name of Kṛṣṇa from your mouth has performed a wonder—it has nullified the reactions of all your sinful activities. Now you have become supremely pure.
Confirming the potency of the saṅkīrtana movement, these words from the very mouth of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu express how people can be purified simply by chanting the holy name of Lord Kṛṣṇa. The Kazi was a Muslim mleccha, or meat-eater, but because he several times uttered the holy name of Lord Kṛṣṇa, automatically the reactions of his sinful life were vanquished and he was fully purified of all material contamination. We do not know why the pāṣaṇḍīs of the present day protest that we are deteriorating the Hindu religion by spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world and claiming all classes of men to the highest standard of Vaiṣṇavism. But these rascals disagree with us so vehemently that some of them do not allow European and American Vaiṣṇavas to enter the temples of Viṣṇu. Thinking religion to be meant for material benefit, these so-called Hindus have actually become vicious by worshiping the numerous forms of the demigods. In the next verse Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu confirms the Kazi's purification.
"Because you have chanted three holy names of the Lord—Hari, Kṛṣṇa and Nārāyaṇa—you are undoubtedly the most fortunate and pious."
Here the Supreme Lord, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, confirms that anyone who chants the holy names Hari, Kṛṣṇa and Nārāyaṇa without offense is certainly extremely fortunate, and whether Indian or non-Indian, Hindu or non-Hindu, he immediately comes to the level of the most pious personality. We therefore do not care about the statements of pāṣaṇḍīs who protest against our movement's making the members of other cities or countries into Vaiṣṇavas. We have to follow in the footsteps of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, executing our mission peacefully, or, if necessary, kicking the heads of such protesters.
After the Kazi heard this, tears flowed down from his eyes. He immediately touched the lotus feet of the Lord and spoke the following sweet words.
"Only by Your mercy have my bad intentions vanished. Kindly favor me so that my devotion may always be fixed upon You."
The Lord said, "I wish to beg you for one favor in charity. You must pledge that this saṅkīrtana movement will not be checked, at least in the district of Nadia."
The Kazi said, "To as many descendants as take birth in my dynasty in the future, I give this grave admonition: No one should check the saṅkīrtana movement."
As a result of this grave injunction by the Kazi, even at present the descendants of the Kazi's family do not oppose the saṅkīrtana movement under any circumstances. Even during the great Hindu-Muslim riots in neighboring places, the descendants of the Kazi honestly preserved the assurance given by their forefather.
Hearing this, the Lord got up, chanting "Hari! Hari!" Following Him, all the other Vaiṣṇavas also got up, chanting the vibration of the holy name.
Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu went back to perform kīrtana, and the Kazi, his mind jubilant, went with Him.
The Lord asked the Kazi to go back home. Then the son of mother Śacī came back to His own home, dancing and dancing.
This is the incident concerning the Kazi and the Lord's mercy upon him. Anyone who hears this is also freed from all offenses.
CC Madhya-lila
When Caitanya Mahāprabhu was having His discussion with the Chand Kazi, the Muslim magistrate of Navadvīpa, He recited a verse from the Vedic literature to the effect that the order of sannyāsa is prohibited in this Age of Kali. Only those who are very serious and who follow the regulative principles and study Vedic literature should accept sannyāsa.
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
When Caitanya Mahāprabhu met Chand Kazi... I think I have explained this story many times. Chand Kazi was Mohammedan. So you know the story that Caitanya Mahāprabhu started civil disobedience, disregarded the section, I mean to say, imposed by the magistrate Chand Kazi that "You cannot hold the saṅkīrtana. The people are disturbed." Just like you are being threatened by the police. So this is not new thing. This thing is going on from the very beginning, even Caitanya Mahāprabhu's time. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu disregarded the notice. "Don't care for this Kazi. Go on." And when people... He was very popular, but we are not popular. Caitanya Mahāprabhu (laughs) was Kṛṣṇa. He had attraction. He was, although a boy of twenty years old, He had many followers. He ordered, "Oh, Kazi has ordered to stop. Now I order that hundreds of thousands of people shall assemble this night, and we shall go to the Kazi's house." This is civil disobedience. So people agreed, and there were hundreds of thousands of mṛdaṅgas and hundreds of thousands of people, and they chanted and crossed the whole street, don't care for any police action. And the Kazi saw, "Oh, it is a mass movement." He was afraid. You see? When any movement is taken by the people, then the government becomes afraid. Just like the marijuana movement? Now there is no more legal action. Government cannot because all people are taking to marijuana. You see? What is that? Mariana, marijuana. Marijuana. So you make this marijuana, taken by all people, then police will be afraid. You see? They'll not dare to stop you.
So when there was talk with Kazi... Chand Kazi was learned man. So first of all Caitanya Mahāprabhu challenged, "My dear uncle..." He established the relation to pacify Caitanya. "My Nimāi, Nimāi..." He called just like boy. He was boy. "Nimāi, oh, Your grandfather Nīlāmbara Cakravartī, I call him cācā." Cācā means uncle. The Muslims they call... In India these Britishers created feelings between Hindus and Muslims, but otherwise the Hindus and Muslims are living since eight centuries. So in the village they lived peacefully, and the Hindus call the Muslims "cācā", and the Muslim call the Hindu... In this way they make some friendly relationship. There was no ill feeling. Even they will invite, the Hindus will invite. In our childhood we have seen, in marriage ceremony or in some religious ceremony also, some Muslim friends were invited, and they were received. Similarly Muslims also invite some Hindus. They'll make separate... My father, he used to be guest of a Muslim gentleman. He was his customer. So he used to make separate arrangement my father, a brāhmaṇa attendant, supplying all foodstuff. So there was no... And he was coming to our house, so he, accompanied with his servant Muslims, we used to supply foodstuff. They were cooking in their own way. Of course, no meat was allowed, but there were friendship. And while departing, he would give us some money, four rupees, five rupees, in the hands of all our brothers and sisters and offer respect to my mother as "Auntie." These feelings were there. This ill feeling was created by the Britishers. When they saw that Gandhi is improving the Hindu-Muslim situation, they created a, what is called, a split. Anyway, that is political. So this Chand Kazi informed Caitanya Mahāprabhu, "Nimāi, I call Your grandfather, Your mother's father, as my cācā, as my uncle. So in that way Your mother is my sister according to our village relationship, and You are my nephew. So how is that a nephew is so much angry upon his uncle? Is it not good?" So Caitanya Mahāprabhu could understand that he has come down. He has now become uncle. So He said, "Yes, My dear uncle, I know that. It is not My duty to be angry with you, but how is that, I am your nephew, I have come to your home, and you went upstairs, you did not receive Me? Anyway, what is done is done, forget."
So then they sat down and talked. The first challenge was Caitanya Mahāprabhu's, that "My dear uncle, what is your this religion that you're eating father and mother?" That was His first challenge. And the Kazi said, "What is that? What do You mean by that?" "You are eating a bull and cow. Cow is your mother. You are drinking milk; therefore she is your mother. And the bull is helping you, producing your food, maintaining. As the father maintains you and mother gives you milk. And do you think it is good to kill them?" So Kazi, he was also learned, "Oh, Your Vedic scripture also, there is cow sacrifice." Caitanya Mahāprabhu immediately said, "No, that is not killing. That was giving a new body to show the strength of the Vedic mantras." A cow was sacrificed in the fire and by mantra, by chanting of the mantra, the cow will come out with a new body, young body. That was not killing.
Now, Caitanya Mahāprabhu first of all inquired that the Muhammadan magistrate... They established their relation as the uncle and nephew. Caitanya Mahāprabhu became the nephew, and the Kazi, the magistrate, he became the uncle. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu addressed the uncle, "My dear uncle, why you are killing your father and mother?" So the uncle replied, "What is that? I am killing our father and mother?" "Yes. Because the cow is your mother. She gives milk. And the bull, he helps you in the agricultural fields. He produces grain. So just like father and mother—mother supplies milk and father brings grain—so they are your father and mother. How you are killing your father and mother?"
So the uncle replied that... He was also very educated, learned. He said that "In Your Vedic scripture there is cow sacrifice. So You are also killing cow." Just I am going to explain the sacrifice. Now, Caitanya Mahāprabhu explained there that that was not killing. When there was some animal sacrifice, an old animal would be sacrificed in the altar, but it would be given a new life. It was practically testing of the Vedic mantra by the qualified brāhmaṇas. So He said, "Because at the present moment there are no qualified brāhmaṇas, therefore such kind of sacrifice is stopped. Stopped." That was His explanation.
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
There was a discussion between Lord Caitanya and Chand Kazi, the Muhammadan magistrate. That story perhaps you know, that He started civil disobedience movement. And the brāhmaṇas of Navadvīpa, they complained to the Muhammadan ma... At that time, Bengal was being governed by Pathans, Muhammadans, and so there was Muhammadan magistrate called Kazi Saheb. So the brāhmaṇas, they lodged complaint to the Kazi Saheb that "This boy, Nimāi Paṇḍita, He has started one movement, Hare Kṛṣṇa, and people are being enthused, excited to chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and He is making propaganda that "Simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, you'll get all perfection." So the brāhmaṇas thought that "If this boy makes propaganda and popularize this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, then, oh, what about ourself?" They were priestly class. "Then how we will live?" So they lodged complaint to the Chand Kazi that "He's doing something against our Vedic rituals. It is not Hindu religion. And..." Of course, he was Muhammadan magistrate, but after all, he was meant for giving justice to the people. So when big brāhmaṇas complained, he took action and he sent some constables to warn the followers of Lord Caitanya that "You are disturbing. You are disturbing, this Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting. You cannot do this. There is complaint."
So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was informed that "The Chand Kazi has warned us not to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. What shall we do?" Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Don't care. Go on chanting. Go on chanting." So then, when the magistrate saw that they have not stopped, then he sent some constables and government police force, who broke their mṛdaṅgas and dispersed the crowd. So this information was given to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and He said, "All right, then we shall, I mean to say, issue this civil disobedience." So He called for many thousands of people. He was very popular. This incidence shows that even He was at that time sixteen-years-old boy, He was so learned, Nimāi Paṇḍita, that He defeated a great scholar, and at the same time, He was very popular because by His simple calling, many hundred thousands of people gathered with mṛdaṅgas, and they began kīrtana in the street and went to the house of that Kazi.
So at that time Kazi thought that "This is a mass movement. So my order will not be... There will be some disturbance." So he came to his senses. Then he wanted to make some compromise with Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And first of all there was some discussion, because he was also very learned scholar, Chand Kazi, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu was also very learned scholar. So first of all he compromised, Chand Kazi, "Nimāi, You are a boy, and in our village relationship You are just my nephew because Your grandfather, Your mother's father, I call him 'Cācā.' " Cācā means uncle. "So, in that sense, Your mother is my sister. So You are my nephew. Why You are so angry upon Your uncle?" So He said, "Yes, My dear uncle, I have come My uncle's house to be received very nicely, but you went upstairs. Why? I am very glad that you have come down." In this way, the things were... Then He first of all asked Chand Kazi, "Yes, My dear uncle..." He was maternal uncle, māmu... Māmu or māmā. Māmā means maternal uncle. "My dear māmā, Uncle, what is your religion, that you eat your father and mother?" That was His challenge, first. "What sort of religion you have got?" He said, "What You say? We eat our father...?" "Yes, because you eat cow. So cow gives you milk. She's your mother. You drink milk and kill your mother. And the bull, she (he) helps you in agricultural..., producing grains just like father gives you grains to eat. So you are killing your father and mother. How is that?"
So Chand Kazi was also very learned scholar. He said, "Well, this cow-killing is also recommended in Your Vedas, because there is cow sacrifice." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu replied... Now, we should know it that the animal sacrifice, according to the Vedic scripture, that is not killing. That is explained by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He said that "In the previous time, this cow sacrifice was actually being done. That's all right. But that was not for killing. That—to give the cow, the old cow or bull, a new life. By the power of mantra, just to give evidence of the Vedic mantras, the brāhmaṇas would sacrifice a cow, old cow or old bull, in the fire and give, give him, again, new life. That was... Now, in this age, there is no such powerful brāhmaṇa who can chant the mantras rightly and give again rejuvenation, another new life. It is not possible. Therefore in the śāstras, these sort of sacrifices are forbidden."
- aśvamedhaṁ gavālambhaṁ
- sannyāsaṁ pala-paitṛkam
- devareṇa sutotpattiṁ
- kalau pañca vivarjayet
- (CC Adi 17.164)
So there was nice discussion, and the compromise was that "No more Your saṅkīrtana movement will be checked by my men."
So the point is that although in the Vedic scripture there is recommendation that animal sacrifice allowed, but that is not meant for killing. That is giving a new life.
That was discussed between Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Chand Kazi, the Muhammadan magistrate of Nadia. He, Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu, challenged the Kazi, Muhammadan, that "What is your religion, that you eat your father and mother?" This was the challenge by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. What is that, father, mother? Now, mother, your cow is your mother. You drink milk of cow. And the bull is your father. Because without bull, without the cow and bull being united, there is no milk. So how is that you are eating your father and mother? It is a great challenge. Actually those who are meat-eater, beef-eater, they are killing their father and mother and become implicated in sinful life. Therefore we say no meat-eating. No meat-eating. If you become implicated in sinful life, how you can be happy? There must be nature's punishment.
This Chand Kazi, Muslim magistrate, he also challenged Caitanya Mahāprabhu. When Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "What is your this religion? You are eating your father and mother?" Directly. Not that He was talking with a magistrate, He should be a little respectful. No. In spiritual matter, everything spoken frankly, no compromise.
Festival Lectures
So this civil disobedience movement was started first by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Now, there was some compromising talk with the magistrate, and in that talk the Caitanya Mahāprabhu first questioned. Because he was Mohammedan, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "In your religion there is killing of father and mother. What sort of religion this is?" The Kazi replied, "How do you say that we are killing our father and...?" "Yes. You are killing your mother. Cow gives you milk, delivers milk. You drink the milk, and you kill the cow. Therefore you are killing your mother." So the Kazi replied that "In your Vedic literature also, I have seen. There is cow sacrifice." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu replied, "That is not cow sacrifice. That is rejuvenation of cow. Old cows were sacrificed in the fire, and again a new life was given by the Vedic mantra. But because there is lack of such expert brāhmaṇas to chant that mantra, therefore cow sacrifice in this age is forbidden."
So when the things are not practical, that becomes a forbidden. If you actually get the result by some spiritual or religious rituals, performance, then it is very good. Otherwise it is superstition. Lord Caitanya's opinion is that because all these Vedic injunctions, sacrifices, they are not possible to be performed in this age... They are very difficult. There is no expert leader to perform all these ceremonies and rituals. Therefore, take to this Hare Kṛṣṇa. Take to this. There is no need of rituals. There is no need of expenses. Simply God has given you tongue, and God has given you ear. Just go on chanting: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, and it will fulfill your spiritual advancement.
Initiation Lectures
The animal sacrifice mentioned in the Vedas were not for killing. It was experiment of the Vedic mantra. They would sacrifice an animal and again it will be given new life, rejuvenation. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu said to Chand Kazi that "Because in this age the brāhmaṇas are not so powerful, therefore sacrifice is prohibited. Only this sacrifice: harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21),
General Lectures
Just like the discussion went on with the Kazi and Caitanya Mahāprabhu. There was no philosophy. He first asked him that "Cow is your mother. Bull is your father. Why you are killing father and mother? What is your religion? Is that very good philosophy, that you shall kill your father and mother and eat them?" This was the first question. According to Vedic civilization, cow is to be given all protection. The Hindus or followers of the Vedic religion, why they are interested to give protection to the cows, not to the..., not so much to the other animals? And Lord Christ is more liberal. He said, "Thou shalt not kill." He does not name any animal's name. Every animal. Every animal should be given protection. That is also the Vedic idea. Why these poor animals should be killed? By killing, killing, killing, you become sinful and entangled.
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Chand Kazi was a... Maulana Chand Kazi. His name is Maulana Chand Kazi. He was a great scholar in the Koran scripture. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu first of all asked the Chand Kazi, "My dear uncle, what is your religion that you are eating your mother and father?" (laughs) So he could understand that He was attacking the cow killing process. So he said, "Well, You are just trying to criticize our cow killing, but in Your Vedic literature also I have seen that cow killing is allowed in sacrifice." Then Lord Caitanya said, "Yes. That is not killing. That is rejuvenating. That is not killing." The sacrifice of cow recommended in the Vedic śāstra means that the brāhmaṇas prove how powerful was Vedic mantra that it could give a new life to the old cows and bulls. So then Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, that "Such kind of learned brāhmaṇas and Vedic yajña is not possible in this age. Therefore cow killing..." Not cow killing. "Sacrifice by offering cow, sacrifice by offering horse, and..." Aśvamedhaṁ gavālambhaṁ (CC Adi 17.164). And sannyāsaṁ pala paitṛkam. Sannyāsa means to become in the renounced order of life. And these five things. One thing is sacrifice by offering cow. Second, sacrifice by offering horse. Third, to accept renounced order of life. And fourth, offering ablutions... Or what is called? Offering some, something to the forefathers? What is called?
Hayagrīva: Oblations.
Prabhupāda: Oblations. Yes. This, and to beget child by the husband's younger brother. Formerly, the society allowed that if a woman is young, she has no child, but husband died, so if the husband has younger brother, through the younger brother she could have a child. This system was current. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that these five things are forbidden in this age. So Chand Kazi also replied that "Cow killing is also not generally recommended in the Koran. Actually, beef-eating or flesh-eating is not in the higher stage. But those who are inclined to take flesh, for them it is recommended that instead of killing many small animals, one big animal should be killed. So actually in Mecca, Medina, they kill camel. That is also in the mosque." So the substance of his speech was that flesh-eating ultimately is not recommended. "But those who have no other means, they eat flesh and they recommend that one big animal should be killed. So India, the cow is big animal, therefore we kill. But that is not recommended for advanced spiritual students." In this way... So they were friends, and he understood, Chand Kazi understood that it is very nice movement, that "You are preaching love of Godhead. So I did not understand. So my dear boy, henceforward there will be no hindrances in Your movement and I promise that not only myself but all my descendants will never object Your movement, this saṅkīrtana movement."
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So the Kazi said that "Your grandfather, I call him Chāchā. He's elderly man. So Your mother is my sister. So You are my nephew. So do you think a nephew can be very angry upon his uncle?" And (chuckling) He said, "No, nephew must be obedient to the uncle. But do you think that uncle, when a nephew comes to his house, will not receive him?" "Oh yes. You are welcome. You are my nephew. You are my son." In this way the past incidences forgotten. Then they sat down. Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked him, "My dear uncle, what is your religion that you are killing father and mother?" "Why killing father and mother?" "Oh, you are killing cow, your mother. You are drinking milk. And oxen, he produces grains for you in the field; so he is your father. The father earns for the children, so he is producing grains. And mother gives milk; so cow is giving milk. So how is your religion that the father mother killing?" Then he could understand that Caitanya is marking on the cow killing by the Mohammedans. Then he said, "Oh, this cow killing is also in your Hindu religion." Then He said, "How is that, Hindu religion cow killing?" "Oh, there is cow sacrifice." Then He said that cow sacrifice is not like this. Cow sacrifice is giving new life to the old cow. That is cow sacrifi... It is not killing. And because at the present moment the brāhmaṇas are not so qualified that they can give new life, therefore that sacrifice is now forbidden. He cited some verses from Vedic literature that cow sacrifice and horse sacrifice and to beget children by the younger brother of husband and sannyāsa, and offering oblations with meat, these things are forbidden. So that is past. This is... Now it has no significance. In this way, both of them were scholars. Then they compromised. Agreement was the Kazi gave order everyone of his descendants, that "Nobody will check this saṅkīrtana movement." So that order is being carried by their descendants still there in Nabadwip. The Kazi has got his tomb. He was a very big man.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Dr. Pore: Are you saying that you should never kill a cow but that you sometimes can kill a person?
Prabhupāda: When you can give life. There is sometimes cow sacrifice yajña. The cow sacrifice yajña means an old cow, he is sacrificed in the fire, and by Vedic hymns he is given again new life. To test the potency of the Vedic mantra, an old cow is sacrificed and by mantra he is given again new life. Not for killing and eating. That was discussed between Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Chand Kazi, Mohammedan magistrate. Those who have read Caitanya-caritāmṛta will find. So the Kazi was challenged by Caitanya Mahāprabhu that "You are killing cow and bulls. What is your religion? You are killing your father and mother." Then, he also was learned man, he said it that "In your Vedas the cow sacrifice yajña is there." Then He explained, "This sacrifice is not for eating. It is giving a new life. To test the Vedic mantra." That is discussed in Caitanya-caritāmṛta. That is a different case. For meat-eating a cow should not be killed. This is not very good civilization.
Devotee (4): Srila Prabhupāda? A materialist or someone who wouldn't know, he may say that when the bull is not plowing, all he is doing is eating. You have to pay money to feed him grain or to grow grain to feed the bull.
Prabhupāda: They will grow, and they will eat. Rather, they will help you for your eating. The father also eats, but he maintains the family. Therefore the bull is considered as father and the cow as mother. Mother gives milk, and the bull grows food grains for man. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu first challenged that Kazi that "What is your religion, that you eat your father and mother?" Both the bulls and the cows are important because the bull will produce food grain and the cow will give supply milk. They should be utilized properly. That is human intelligence.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? One time you were explaining that Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was speaking with the Kazi, He convinced him about that the Koran does not actually advocate meat-eating.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact. Because the Muslims, they also cannot eat meat unless it is sacrificed in the mosque. There is no recommendation that you purchase from the market and the animal be slaughtered in the slaughterhouse.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there some mention not to eat many animals but eat one...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what I... I couldn't remember.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In Arabia they were to eat animal but to save him from so many dangerous and sinful life—he has to kill so many goats—better kill one life, a camel or a cow. Camel is big animal. So if you kill one animal, camel, it is equal to fifty goats.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about a cow?
Prabhupāda: A cow is also big animal.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So they say like that?
Prabhupāda: Yes... They don't say cow. They say better kill one big animal. "So instead of becoming sinful for killing so many animals, you better kill..." And that is also sacrificed in the mosque, and that is called koravāni. Restriction is there.
Sudāmā: They were wanting to talk business for a long time. You were simply preaching to them.
Prabhupāda: Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu went to the Kazi. His first question was that "What kind of religion you are following? You are killing your father and mother?" This was His beginning of the talk. "What kind of religion it is?" "How is that? I am killing my father, mother?" "Yes, cow is your mother and bull is your father. You are killing them. The bull is giving you grains by working in the field, and the mother is giving you milk, and you are killing them." This was his first question. So this is a civilization of killing father and mother.
Indian man (6): Aśvamedha-yajña, all these things, and before that...
Prabhupāda: That is now prohibited.
- aśvamedhaṁ gavālambhaṁ
- sannyāsaṁ pala-paitṛkam
- devareṇa sutotpattiṁ
- kalau pañca vivarjayet
- (CC Adi 17.164)
If you refer to śāstra, the śāstra says in Kali-yuga these should be avoided. At that time, when there was aśvamedha-yajña, gomedha-yajña, that was not for eating. That was to prove the strength of Vedic mantra, how the animal was put in the fire and again gave him a new life. So where is that Vedic chanter, Vedic brāhmaṇa, yajñika brāhmaṇa? There is no such things, powerful brāhmaṇa. Therefore it is to be avoided. And that was not for eating purpose. To put one old animal in the fire and again he comes back with new life, that was the purpose. This question was raised by Chand Kazi to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu challenged him, that "What is this your religion, you are killing your father and mother?" So he referred to this, that in..., "Formerly they were sacrificing cows in Your śāstra." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu explained that sacrifice was not meant for eating. That was meant for renovating new life. That is not for eating.
Correspondence
1974 Correspondence
You mention that in the picture where Lord Caitanya is discussing with the Kazi about cow killing, Lord Nityananda is there with a drum. No, there is no mention of Him being with a mrdanga. He should not have a shaved head as a brahmacari but in the same feature as we always see the two, Gaura Nitai. Nityananda was brahmacari and became grhastha but you should always paint them in the Gaura Nitai style and feature you are already accustomed to doing.
| Page Title: | Discussion between Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Chand Kazi |
| Compiler: | Labangalatika |
| Created: | 21 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=2, CC=75, OB=0, Lec=8, Con=7, Let=1 |
| No. of Quotes: | 93 |