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Disc (Conv. and Letters)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:

Prabhupāda: There are some special marks on the chest of Viṣṇu by which in Vaikuṇṭha He is known that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Otherwise, in Vaikuṇṭha, everyone has got the same feature like Viṣṇu. Just like if President Johnson comes here as a gentleman, you'll not, nobody will recognize him whether he's president or not unless he shows his special mark. Is it not? All government officers, big officers, they have got within the coat one, some mark. So far I know. So similarly, in Vaikuṇṭha the inhabitants, they got svarūpa. Their form is exactly like Viṣṇu. There is no difference. When the Viṣṇudūta came to take Ajamila from the hands of Yamadūta. They were four-handed with śankha-cakra-gadā-padma as Viṣṇu, the lotus flower, this disc, and the club, and the conchshell. There is no difference in the body. Simply by that special mark, some special hair on the chest and there is Bhṛgu, I mean to say, sole, sole, a mark of the feet of Bhṛgu Muni. So by some special marks one can recognize He is Viṣṇu. Otherwise, from bodily features and from dress and from ornaments, there is no distinction between Viṣṇu and His devotees in Vaikuṇṭha. They're all four-handed.

Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:

Prabhupāda: Lotus is blessing. And that disc and club is for punishing. Viṣṇu has to see two ways because He's the Lord. So, as it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). Just like the state. State is meant for punishing the criminals and giving protection to the law-abiding citizen. Wherefrom this idea is taken? It is taken from Viṣṇu. Everything. Because He is the supreme maintainer. So everything is required for maintaining. So this gada, the club, and the disc is for punishing the disobedient, the demons, or those who are harassing devotees. To punish them the Viṣṇu-cakra is there. Just like Mahārāja Ambarīṣa, he was harassed by Durvāsā Muni, and Viṣṇu-cakra punished him sufficiently. Mahārāja Durvāsā... Mahārāja Ambarīṣa was a great king, but a great devotee at the same time. Because he was kṣatriya and householder, Durvāsā Muni, he was envious. Durvāsā Muni was brāhmaṇa and a great yogi. So he could not tolerate that a householder king... King is supposed to be dealing in politics, economics. Therefore, according to social position, he is lesser than the brāhmaṇa because they are simply engaged in the matter of transcendental advancement of life. But a devotee is above the brāhmaṇas. That is the position of devotee. Here, the highest qualitative position is to be situated in the modes of goodness or to acquire the qualities of brāhmaṇa, in this material world.

Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:

Prabhupāda: But that frustration has no disappointment. (laughter) That is the beauty. Just like Lord Caitanya is manifesting that spiritual frustration. "Oh Kṛṣṇa, I could not see You." He's jumping on the sea in frustration. But that frustration is the highest perfection of love. Yes. Everything is there. But without inebriety. You are very intelligent boy. I thank you. Yes. Yes. There is frustration, but not this frustration. Yes. That frustration, I mean to say, enriches one's eagerness of love for Kṛṣṇa. Everything is there, but without inebriety. Everything is there. Yes. Now see, Viṣṇu? Of course, in Vaikuṇṭha-jagat there is no violence. But Viṣṇu is taking the symbol of violence. Otherwise what is the meaning of this disc and club? So when He wants to be violent, He comes here as Nṛsiṁha-mūrti. (laughter) And He sends some of His devotees to play violence. That is Hiraṇyakaśipu. Because there the devotees are so much in accord with Kṛṣṇa and Viṣṇu that there is no question of disagreement. But violence is when this disagree-ment, atheist. Therefore sometimes a devotee is deputed in this world to play as atheist, and Kṛṣṇa comes to kill him. To teach these people that "If you become atheist, then here is disc and club for you." But it is not possible to be displayed in the Vaikuṇṭha.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1970, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is to restrict. Just like government opens liquor shop. That does not mean government is encouraging to drink. Those who are drunkard, going create disturbance, for them there is little concession, but they are responsible. If they become drunkard and causes some disturbance in the street, then he will be arrested by the police. He cannot say, "Oh, I have paid for the bottle." (Hindi) The bhakti is all-inclusive. (Explains Brahman, Paramātmā, Bhagavān in Hindi) Brahmā-jñāna means, just like sunlight. You understand sunlight. That does not mean that you know sun disc. But both of them are light.

Guest (9): The Brahma-jñāna has got a limited jurisdiction.

Prabhupāda: It is these things that... This is the... just like ordinary...(Hindi) Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa bhūtaṁ... (Bs. 5.40). (Hindi)

Guest (9): Different stages? Are there different stages?

Prabhupāda: Different features. Just like Sūryaloka or Sūryadeva or Sūrya-raśmi. (Hindi)

Guest (9): I see.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Different stages. (Hindi)

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- July 20, 1971, New York:

Pratyatoṣa: And for $185 a month, we could have forty hours a week of computer time, eight hours a day. And they have courses, this company gives computerized courses that'll teach children how to read and how to do arithmetic through the terminal. And also, it has a fantastic editor. If you type in the text, and any mistakes you make, you can just type in a few instructions with a computer and it'll change them. Then after you get all the text the way you want it, it's stored on a magnetic disk at the computer. And then when you get it perfect—you can change it a hundred times if you want—but when you get it perfect, then you just have the computer automatically type out the whole thing.

Prabhupāda: You know how to do that?

Devotee (4): Yes, Prabhupāda, I got A's in that.

Pratyatoṣa: These terminals have paper tape punches. You can the punch paper tape and then feed the paper tape into a machine called a photon machine, and you get out a perfectly composed page with... You can have any type size you want, you can have any type of, what do you call it, the face, the typeface, and it'll be perfect for publishing. It'll come right out of that. The whole process is automatic.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is not possible by any human being. Because any human being, his senses are imperfect. So how he can teach perfect knowledge? Just like you see the sun like a disc. You have no means to approach the sun. If you say, "We can see the sun by telescope and this and that," that is also made by you. And you are imperfect, your instrument is imperfect. Because that telescope you can say that you are seeing, but that machine is made by you, and you are imperfect. How your machine can be perfect? Therefore your knowledge of the sun is imperfect. So you don't teach about sun unless you have got perfect. That is cheating.

Bob: But what about to teach that it is supposed that the sun is 93,000,000 miles away?

Prabhupāda: As soon as you say "it is supposed," it is not scientific.

Bob: Yeah, but I think almost all of science, then, is not scientific. Because all science... (laughter)

Prabhupāda: That is the point.

Bob: Oh, I see. Is based on, you know, suppositions of this or that. So imperfect knowledge may be taught...

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: Now, who is that person, or the authority, who is giving that law, who is controlling that law? That is divine search. But that divine search cannot be completed by the speculation of our imperfect senses. Our senses are imperfect; therefore whatever knowledge we gather by speculating our imperfect senses, that is imperfect. Just like the sun. The sun is very big, bigger, fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this earth, but with our imperfect eyes we see just like a disk. If we remain satisfied with this imperfect knowledge, then we remain in darkness. We have to know the sun from the astronomer. They have calculated. They know. In this way knowledge, perfect knowledge, can be attained—when it is received through the perfect knower, not by speculation. That speculation means I shall speculate with limited mind and imperfect senses. So however carefully or expertly I manage with the instruments, they are themselves imperfect. Therefore Vedic sastra says that to understand the divine you must have divine mercy. You must possess. Athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvaya-prasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva hi jānāti tattvaṁ (SB 10.14.29). One can understand the truth by the grace of... So searching after divine means we must search after the grace of the divine. Just like a very big man, just like President Nixon. So I am speculating that President Nixon is like that, like that, like this, his function is like that, he eats like this, he sleeps like this.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation With Three College Students -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, no, I am giving an example. No, officially, she is the supreme of England. That you cannot deny. If you do so, then your position, you know. Similarly, anything... "Call a spade a spade." If everyone says that this is electric lamp, and if you say, "No, I don't say," then what can be done?

Student (3): We can see an electric lamp, but we can't see Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: No, that... That is... You have to see through the śāstra. śāstra-cakṣuṣā. Just like you see the sun just like a disc, but when you go through the śāstra, authorized books, you understand that it is fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this earth. So what is the value of your seeing? Why do you believe you're seeing so much? Your all seeing is defective. You cannot say that you are perfectly seeing. You cannot say that.

Student (1): Do you believe that there are other ways...

Prabhupāda: There is no question of belief. Now let us quest... We believe that "If I see, that is all right," but what is the value of your seeing? You cannot see beyond this wall. Does it mean there is nothing? So what is the value of your seeing? First of all you consider. You are questioning that "I cannot see," but what is the value of your seeing?

Student (3): My seeing the electric lamp tells me that it is...

Prabhupāda: Now, now, now, but you are seeing the electric lamp, but why do you believe so much on your seeing power? You cannot see so many things, even though you have got the eyes.

Room Conversation with Latin Professor -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: And what is that? Good morning. Hare Kṛṣṇa. There are three stages. First stage of understanding is direct perception, by senses. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhuḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find. Here, from the material platform, our source of knowledge is direct perception. That is crude, pratyakṣa. It is called pratyakṣa. That is crude knowledge, direct perception. Just like I am seeing the sun. I am getting some idea of the sun, but that is not the perfect idea, although I am seeing it daily. I am seeing just like a disc, but it is very, very big. So my direct perception cannot give me perfect knowledge. The first... Besides that, at our present stage, material condition, we are imperfect because we commit mistake. By direct seeing the sun, I am thinking that it is just like a disc. Then we are illusioned. We, sometimes we accept something for something. Then, with this imperfect knowledge, we try to become teacher. That is cheating. And at the end, our senses are imperfect. So with so many imperfectness, how we can get perfect knowledge? What is your answer?

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The glowings are there; we cannot see even the sun. All the glowings are there. It is difficult. Yes. Go on.

Girirāja: (finishes synonyms) "Translation: Your form, adorned with various crowns, clubs and discs, is difficult to see because of it glaring effulgence, which is fiery and immeasurable like the sun."

Dr. Patel: Do you want to comment or shall I...?

Prabhupāda: No, it is all right.

Dr. Patel: (next verse in Sanskrit, 11.18)

Girirāja: (reads synonyms) "Translation: You are the supreme primal objective; You are the best in all the universes; You are inexhaustible, and You are the oldest; You are the maintainer of religion, the eternal Personality of Godhead."

Prabhupāda: This is to be understood. The same thing, the supremacy of Kṛṣṇa, is being repeatedly stressed in so many ways, and still, by reading Bhagavad-gītā, they do not accept the supremacy of Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Not also. He is person. This all pervasive influence or all pervasive feature is His expansion of energy. The same example: The sunshine is the expansion of energy of the sun globe, and the sun globe is the place for the sun-god. The sun-god is a person, and sun globe is the place where this sun-god lives, and sunshine is the expansion of the energy of the sun disc. Try to understand it very... Because this question is very complicated. People cannot understand. You try to understand this. God, Kṛṣṇa, is originally a person. Brahmeti bhagavān iti. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān (SB 1.2.11). Just like if you want to see the sun-god, there is a person. His name is also mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, Vivasvān. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). He is a person. Now you cannot see the person so easily.

Italian Man (1): Exactly. I wanted to ask you about Kṛṣṇa in the heart. Could you tell us something about His physiognomy.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He is a rascal. He is not fit to be seen by the great personality. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ (BG 7.25). You cannot see the sun-god. Does it mean there is no sun-god? What is the value of your eyes? It is imperfect. You are seeing the sun just like a disc, but it is fourteen hundred thousands of times bigger than this earth. Can you see it? Then what is the power of your seeing? Whatever you are seeing, that is defective. So don't be proud of seeing. What is your eyes? What is the value of your eyes? You cannot see even the eyelid. Can you see the eyelid? Although it is attached to your eyeball. So what is the power? Why you are so much proud of seeing? First of all, understand that "I am so defective, I cannot see perfectly, properly." And you want to see God with these defective eyes?

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: No, we must first of all understand that our senses are imperfect. Just like we are sitting in this room. We have got our eyes, but we cannot see what is there, going on, beyond this wall. The sun is fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this earth, and we are seeing just like a disc. So the eyelid is just near the eyes, but we cannot see what is the eyelids. If the light is off, we cannot see. So we can see under certain condition. Then what is the value of our seeing? If we, even if we manufacture telescope, that is also manufactured by the imperfect senses, so it is also not perfect. So anything understood by manipulating our imperfect senses, that is not real knowledge. So our process of understanding real knowledge is to take it from the person who has the real knowledge. Just like if we contemplate or speculate who is my father, it is never possible to understand who is my father. But if we receive the words from mother that "Here is your father," that is perfect. Therefore the process of knowledge should be not to speculate but to receive it from the perfect person. If we receive knowledge from a mental speculator, that is not perfect knowledge.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: No, just like if you want to understand sun, say... what is called? Geography? Then you have to learn from the person who knows geography. You cannot learn from a person who has superficially studied. Then you have to go to the person who knows scientifically, astronomically, that sun is fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this planet. You have to go to the astronomer. How far the sun is situated from us? So you have to go to the particular person who knows it. You cannot say that his knowledge and the child's knowledge, who is seeing the sun as a disc is the same. That you cannot say. If you want to know further enlightenment of the sun then you have to go to the person who is studying sun scientifically. So one who has studied the sun scientifically, his knowledge and a casual person seeing the sun, his knowledge is not the same. That you cannot say. Although everyone is seeing the sun, that's all right, but the knowledge of the sun, there are different.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: You may not see. You have not seen your forefather. That does not mean... This is all bad argument. Why do you believe? Your eyes are so imperfect; still, you say, "I did not see. I want to see." What is the value of your eyes? You see the sun globe—a small disc. But is it so? Then how do you know that it is so big?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: By hearing.

Prabhupāda: By hearing. That is important, not by seeing. Therefore śruti, Veda, is important, not your eyes.

Harikeśa: When people die, though, there is usually some cause. Like they have a heart attack or they get hit by a car or some disease. So that death is caused by the disease...

Prabhupāda: That is not the cause. That is the effect. You foolish, do not know. You are taking it, cause.

Harikeśa: Well, when you get hit by a car, that's a cause.

Prabhupāda: Just like one man becomes insolvent, loses everything. So he said that "I had no money. Therefore I become insolvent." But that is not the fact. He could not manage; therefore there was scarcity of money and he became failure. So that is effect. On account of his bad management, he came to a position that he could not pay to his creditor, and his business is failure. So that insolvency is not the cause. It is the effect.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: He is seeing. And the man knows that there is no water. That is the difference between animal and man. The animal cannot see. The man can see. So become a perfect man. Then you'll see everything.

Trivikrama: Another example you give. When we see the sun it looks like a small disk.

Prabhupāda: There are so many examples. Why you believe your rascal eyes? Why you are proud of seeing? You cannot see.

Devotee: They may say in relation to that...

Prabhupāda: You have got the same eyes, but when it is dark you cannot see. Then what is the value of your eyes? You see under condition. That is not absolute. (break) ...should be informed that why you have changed? Now, the Russian and Chinese, first of all they began believing Lenin or Marx.

Madhudviṣa: Marx was the original.

Prabhupāda: Now they are not in agreement. Why?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They saw practically... It was impractical.

Prabhupāda: That means for advancement of knowledge you have to change. They accept this theory, revolution. So if you get better situation, why you'll not change?

Correspondence

1969 Correspondence

Letter to Charles McCollough -- Los Angeles 12 February, 1969:

I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated February 9, 1969, and I have noted the contents carefully. Regarding your question about closing the temple for a few hours during the day, the best thing is if this can be avoided, but since you are all working in the afternoon then what else can be done? Close 12 to 5 p.m.

You have asked me the meaning of the word "non-manifest" as it appears in the Bhagavad-gita, and the answer is that it means "impersonal," or that which is not personal. Just like the sun has its personal and impersonal feature. The sun can be located as the sun disc, yet it also has its impersonal, all-pervading aspect, or the sunshine. So the sun is manifest, and the sunshine is non-manifest. Manifest means where there is variety and non-manifest means where there is only one. When you go to a planet within the sunshine there are many varieties found, but in the sunshine itself there is simply one—the sunlight.

Letter to Syama -- Los Angeles 21 February, 1969:

Then apply that paste while it is hot. I understand that Hayagriva had some backache so for him you take one part of a crushed to a powder red-pepper and add to it five parts of rubbing alcohol. Keep this for twenty four hours, then strain and add one part camphor. When it is mixed, just apply it on the painful part of the back three times daily.

Regarding your next two questions, you may not put the initiation beads on the cow. Nor is it necessary for grhasthas to recite the Gayatri Mantra aloud. It should be silent or whispered. I think that the symbol which you have seen by the left arm of Lord Jagannatha must be either a flower or a disc.

The translation of the Om Ajnana prayer is "I offer my respectful obeisances unto my Spiritual Master who has opened my eyes from the darkness of ignorance with the torchlight of knowledge."

Please convey my blessings to Hrsikesa and Ranadhira. I hope this will meet you all in very good health and cheerful mood.

1970 Correspondence

Letter to Gajendra -- Los Angeles 27 January, 1970:

Your first question: are disciplic successions from Brahma and from Arjuna different? No. Brahma's disciplic succession accepts Krishna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead and Arjuna also accepted Krishna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So that is not a new disciplic succession. Krishna says in the fourth chapter that I am again reintroducing unto you—so anyone who accepts Lord Krishna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead is to be understood as belonging to the same disciplic succession.

Balarama is holding a plow, that is His weapon. Jagannatha is holding the Cakra, that is His weapon. Krishna's name is Cakradhara (dhara = carries) or One Who Carries the Disc. Balarama's name is Haladhara, the Carrier of the Plow (hala).

Your third question: why does Srila Narada Muni condemn Srila Vyasadeva for compiling the Vedic Scriptures? Sri Narada Muni was the Spiritual Master of Srila Vyasadeva. A Spiritual Master has the right to chastise his disciple any way He likes. A sisya or a disciple means one who accepts the disciplinary action given by the Spiritual Master. Even although sometimes a Spiritual Master chastises his disciple as a fool or rascal in fatherly affection, it does not mean necessarily that the disciple is a fool or a rascal. You will find even in the statement of Lord Caitanya—He presents Himself as a fool designated by His Spiritual Master, but that does not mean that He was a fool. A sincere disciple feels it pleasurable when his Spiritual Master chastises him with calling him such names as fool and rascal. My Spiritual Master sometimes called me in that way and I remember that day always and feel transcendental pleasure.

Letter to Syamasundara -- Los Angeles 15 April, 1970:

The atheist theoretically can deny the presence of God, but the presence of God in form of Death is present before him despite his flouting. You have seen the picture of Lord Narayana—He has got four hands, two hands are for the atheist and two hands are for the theist. For the theist-devotee the Lord has the Lotus-flower or blooming peace and prosperity, and the Conchshell dissipating all inauspicity by its vibration. But for the atheist there is the big Club for hammering on the head of the atheist, or separate the head of the atheist by the sharpened edge of the Disc.

In the Bhagavad-gita the Lord says that He descends in every millenium to give protection to the faithful and to annihilate the miscreants. So God has got always these two features of His authority, namely protection and death.

1971 Correspondence

Letter to Jadurani -- Bombay 31 December, 1971:

In reply to your question whether TLC or the original cover of Srimad-Bhagavatam gives the authoritative picture of the hand symbols, what is written in TLC is correct. On page 69 of TLC first there is a description of the symbols for Vasudeva, Sankarsana, Pradyumna, and Aniruddha. Then follows a description of the representations of Narayana. Although there should be twenty, only eighteen are given. The two who are missing are Sri Kesava who is represented holding from the lower right hand lotus, conch, disk, club; and Sri Vamana holding conch, disk, club, and lotus flower. So altogether this makes twenty-four. The twenty-two as they are written in TLC are correct.

Muralidhara's version of Krishna and the cowherd boys with the Gopis watching them shown in the lotus is nice. Krishna and the cowherd boys used to return in the evening, and the Gopis while looking on used to enjoy Krishna's smiling face. This is stated in Srimad-Bhagavatam.

1974 Correspondence

Letter to ISKCON Artists -- Bombay 2 May, 1974:

The sketch is all right. An orange-red dhoti is all right.

10. The airplanes are all right as drawn.

11. The demigods planes are almost equal to the Vaikuntha planes.

12. Yes, the inhabitants of a particular Vaikuntha planet have the same arrangement of symbols in the hands. Nanda and Sunanda should hold as follows: lower right: conch, upper right: disc, upper left: club, lower left: flower.

13. Pracetas should be not clean shaven, but with beards as mendicants.

Siva is different colors. Not always yellow. There are eleven kinds of Rudras.

14. No, Siva should not be wearing a garland of skulls. Yes, he can be wearing a short dhoti. 15. They should all be standing around the fire at the sacrificial altar. Do not show the horse there. 16. Yes, although you may not know what Maharaja Prthu or Sita look like, they are present in your paintings due to your consciousness.

Page Title:Disc (Conv. and Letters)
Compiler:Mayapur, RupaManjari
Created:25 of Sep, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=16, Let=6
No. of Quotes:22