Prabhupāda: He was criticized. But the thing is, when Caitanya Mahāprabhu met such stalwart scholars, He was not lagging behind. Similarly, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is sufficient. There is no doubt about it. But if somebody wants to understand this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra through philosophy, through study, through Vedānta, we are not lacking. We have got books. It is not that Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is insufficient, therefore we are recommending books. No. Not like that. Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is sufficient. But... Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He was chanting, but when there was a Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, when there was a Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, oh, He was ready to argue with him with Vedānta. So we should not be dumb. If somebody comes to argue with Vedānta philosophy, then we must be prepared. When we are preaching, there will be so many people, different types of people will come. Otherwise Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is sufficient. Sufficient. It does not require any education, any reading, anything. Simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and you get the highest perfection. That's a fact.
Different types of... (Conversations 1969 - 1975)
Expressions researched:
"different type of"
|"different types of"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. But still, He's still charming. Because it is all transcendental, we cannot compare the blackish cloud. It is simply given, an idea, that it is like blackish cloud. But immediately it is said, still, kandarpa-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobhaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi (Bs. 5.30). So God has many names, and according to your conception, you can have God's name also. But out of all those names, many thousands and unlimited different types of names, Kṛṣṇa is the principal name because Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. You cannot say that God is not all-attractive. And if you use that sense, all-attractive, this is the word, Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (1): What I was... You see, I was trying to...
Prabhupāda: Now, the difficulty is don't try to invent something about God. That is not good.
Guest (1): No, not invention.
Prabhupāda: No, you have to take the version of the śāstras; then it will be possible. If you invent something, try to speculate on something, it will not be successful.
Guest (1): I'm not, you see... In the middle, I may be speculating or you see, trying to... Coming to the human aspect itself, now so many want happiness. Happiness is checked up because of...
Prabhupāda: That material coating.
Prabhupāda: Prohibitive. No illicit sex life, no meat-eating, meat or fish or eggs, no, and no gambling, and no intoxication, including cigarette, tea, coffee. These also we take as intoxicants. So these four principle one has to obey, and let him chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. And by this process only, you'll find, how these boys and girls are improving quickly. Process is very simple. Besides that, we have got books, volumes of books, just like Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā. I have given them. Throughout all these years I have written so many books. And they have got ample stock for reading, the whole life. We have got four hundred pages', big, big books, about one dozen books: Kṛṣṇa in two parts, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in six parts, Teachings of Lord Caitanya, one part, Nectar of Devotion, one part. In this way I am... And these are... We are publishing every month one chapter, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, with this detailed information, giving a heading like this, "The First Step in God Realization." Here is also. The heading is: "Puruṣa-śukta Continued." Puruṣa-śukta is a Vedic stotram. So we are trying to push this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like in your country there is Lenin consciousness, similarly, it is also a different type of consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa is also historical personality as much as Lenin is also historical personality. So His philosophy... Just like you are trying to understand his philosophy, we are trying to understand Kṛṣṇa's philosophy. In this way this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is going on.
Prof. Kotovsky: And have you many participants...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Prof. Kotovsky: ...in these fifty-five branches?
Prabhupāda: Our philosophy is you cannot be happy and prosperous in this demonic civilization.
Journalist (1): What about the Western religions like Christianity? That's been with us now for two thousand years and doesn't seem to have helped people to become particularly...
Prabhupāda: First of all, try to understand what is religion. Then you come to different types of religion. Religion means to understand God. Do you agree to that or not?
Journalist (1): So if Christian religion is teaching to understand God and to become obedient to God, then it is all right. If it is not teaching that then it is useless. Simply by stamping, "I am Christian," what do you gain by that?
Journalist (1): Well nothing, but that...
Prabhupāda: That is going on. Simply by stamping, "I am Hindu." "I am Muslim." "I am Christian." What is the gain?
Journalist (1): I've never been able to understand what the gain was either.
Prabhupāda: Now just try to understand Christian religion is good, provided the followers of the Christian actually follow. But they are not following. They are not following. They are simply artificially stamping, "I am Christian." In the Christian religion the first order is thou shall not kill." But the Christians are very expert in killing. So who is Christian? First of all let me see. Their First Commandment is, Lord Jesus Christ, that "Thou shall not kill." Now, every one is killing and still he is Christian. So this kind of Christian religion, or Hindu religion, what will be the benefit? If you don't follow, simply you stamp yourself that "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim..." That is going on. Nobody is Christian. Nobody is Hindu. Nobody is Muslim. Everyone is demon. Everyone is demon. That is our proposal. There is no Christian, there is no Hindu, there is no Muslim. That is our proposal.
Mensa Member: Would you say that you agree with the Swami that some of the bases(?) of religion are essential, are therapeutically useful, valid?
Dr. Weir: I think again, it depend's upon the personI should say to lots of people they are essential or you might even go farther, as Jung would say, that to everybody they are essential but they mean something different to different types of people from the very (indistinct) if you like it, and the long hair to the very abstract. But the people who lack it do seem to lack. It's rather like they lack a gyroscope. They've got no stability. They just sort of wobble all over the place.
Mensa Member: No, they don't. One (indistinct) scientific truth is this works.
Dr. Weir: I would like to put my own view, is that I believe very much in the Christian ethics, and I could believe in Kṛṣṇa ethics, or, if I might say. But I could also believe in that without the need to believe in Kṛṣṇa or God. Now whether that's a delusion on my part, and I really do believe deep down inside me, and I don't know...
Śyāmasundara: The idea is how to transform that belief into practical action. That's the art.
Dr. Weir: But some people need the bridge of the Godhead to achieve it, other people do it abstractly.
Śyāmasundara: Today we went to a service, a Christian service, the first one I've been to in years, and in the back of the church we walked in there were eleven old ladies sitting in the pews. And outside I could hear the roar of traffic and people. I began to think how much the Christian church has lost track or lost pull(?) of this ability to be able to guide people, the practical application of moral and spiritual principles, so much so that no one was interested to come in...
Prabhupāda: One priest in Boston, he issued leaflet regretting that these boys, he saw our students. He appreciated that these boys are so much after God and they're our boys. We could not give them. Actually the same boy was, one year or two years ago, he was not going to church, was not interested in God consciousness, but now this same boy is mad after God. And he's twenty-four hours in God consciousness. They're chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra twenty-four hours. How they have become so...
Prabhupāda: Therefore it should be concluded that the so-called scientists, astronomers, they are all imperfect, and they are passing off the scientists as learned. So you can challenge them, "What is the guarantee that your knowledge is perfect?" Actually it is not. They do not know how the stars are moving. They are always imperfect. Simply putting some theories. They say all this, Darwin's theory and this theory, that theory. They are simply speculating on imperfect senses, and therefore they're cheating, because the conditioned soul has got a tendency to cheat others. If one can cheat others, he thinks himself as very intelligent. The conditioned souls, they commit mistake, they are illusioned, they cheat, and their senses are imperfect. This is the, the four condition. Therefore, if we receive knowledge from the conditioned soul, there is no possibility of getting perfect knowledge. If by nature you are cheater, then how I can expect fair dealings? It is to be understood that we cannot have any fair dealings with this conditioned soul. And he'll protest.
The whole world is full of conditioned living entities. They're conditioned. Conditioned means under the control of the material nature. Guṇaiḥ karmāṇi. There are different types of conditioned souls. Some of them are good conditioned soul, some of them are passionate conditioned soul, some of them are rascal conditioned soul. So good conditioned soul means that, er, "(indistinct) that I have become very much learned, I have studied so many books, so now I am perfect." There is little goodness, because he has studied, he, he has labored, but still he's conditioned soul, because he has no perfect vision. Vimukta-māninaḥ. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam they have been described as vimukta-māninaḥ, that "I have become now liberated, māninaḥ." Self-complacent, thinking that "I have become now liberated. Now I become Nārāyaṇa, God." These Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they address among themselves as namaḥ nārāyaṇa.
Prabhupāda: Hear and narrate. So, whatever you have heard, you can speak. (break) So, in your country also they do not like this organized Christian religion (indistinct). The difficulty is that either Hindu religion or Christian religion, religion is one. So what is that one religion nobody knows perfectly, and it was not presented because they did not know what is religion. They are simply sticking to a particular kind of faith. Faith can be changed, faith can be given up but real religion, that cannot be given up. It may be perverted. Real religion is to render service to the Supreme Lord. That cannot be changed. We are serving, if not to the Lord, we are serving māyā. But my, that characteristic to serve is continued. So religion is presented simply on formulas and stereo-typed ideas, but actual religion is this surrender. Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. Bhakti means serving. Bhaja sevayā. Sevayā means serving. So, religion means to serve the Supreme Lord, that is religion. Anything which has no such idea, that is not religion. Then again (you) have different types of religion, how far they are making progress with, on that ultimate goal, serving Kṛṣṇa. The more we advance, the more you become perfect, our real religious life becomes manifested, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We say this is real religion. So what others have to say on this point? We say this is real religion. Bhāgavata says dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2), "All cheating type of religion is thrown away." The cheating type of religion means which does not teach people how to serve the Lord, that is cheating. They take advantage of the religious feeling. They say, "I am God" or "I am everything, you serve me, you give your money unto me, I shall give you some material benefit, atonement. You have made your confess, you are sinful, give me some money and you are excused." In this way religion is being perverted. Therefore, people (who) are educated, (they) say "What is this, religion?" They are becoming disgusted. But real religion is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness-surrender to Kṛṣṇa and you will become happy. So if we say that this is the real religion, is there anything wrong there? What possible protest they can offer when I say that this is the religion?
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So keep this principle in view, that you have to become swan, not crows. They say that everyone, every religion is all the same. This is all nonsense. (indistinct) In Bhagavad-gītā there are different types of religion, sattvic, rajarsic, tamasic. And our this... If you take it as religion, this is transcendental. Sa vai puṁsām paro dharmo (SB 1.2.6). Paraḥ means transcendental, it is not ordinary, aparaḥ. In aparaḥ dharma, the materialistic dharma, there are ritualistic ceremonies how to make one perfect for accepting transcendental religion. But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is directly putting oneself in the transcendental. That is the special (indistinct). Caitanya Mahāprabhu... (aside) Why don't you close it? Caitanya-caritāmṛta says, kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya. If you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then it is to be supposed that you have finished all other types of religion. My Guru Maharaja used to cite one example that one's friend was sitting on the high-court judge's bench. So he was speaking to another, "Oh, that Panchu was playing with us naked. He is sitting on the high-court judge's bench. Oh, how he was playing with us naked, how he is seated in the high-court bench?" "Yes, I have seen, you have seen actually he is sitting." "Oh, then he must not be getting salary." He must not be getting salary. So this is the argument. Familiarity breeds contempt. So he cannot believe that he has become a high-court judge. He thinks that "I am a rascal fool and my friend, how he can become high-court judge? He must not be getting salary." But is that very good argument that the high-court judge is seated there without any salary? This argument is false(?). That is enviousness. Nirmatsarata. That is the habit of the conditioned soul. So if... (end)
Bob: Lord Caitanya, He was not a guru, He was different than guru?
Prabhupāda: He's guru.
Bob: Lord Caitanya, He was a different type of guru than you were?
Prabhupāda: No, no. Guru cannot be different types. All gurus are of one type.
Bob: But He was, was He also an incarnation at the same...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, He is Kṛṣṇa Himself, but He is representing as guru.
Bob: I see.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bob: And then.
Prabhupāda: Because Kṛṣṇa, as God, He demanded that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). But people misunderstood Him. Therefore Kṛṣṇa again came as guru and taught people how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa.
Śyāmasundara: Doesn't He say in the Bhagavad-gītā, "I am the spiritual master"?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Śyāmasundara: Doesn't Kṛṣṇa say "I am the spiritual master"? In Bhagavad-gītā it says...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Teachings of Christ, teaching of Buddha, they are meant for a particular type of men. Generally it is meant for everyone, but specifically for a particular type of men. Just like Lord Buddha, he preached ahiṁsā. They were a particular type of men. Lord Jesus Christ also preached to a particular type of men. "Thou shall not kill." That means they were killing. Is it not? If I say, "Thou shall not steal," that means you are thief, you are stealing. So a kind of preaching among the thieves and a kind of teaching among the philosophers must be different. That is the difference. Lord Buddha is Kṛṣṇa, Lord Jesus Christ was Kṛṣṇa incarnation, but they were preaching to a different type of people. Therefore you'll find difference of Lord Jesus Christ teaching, Buddha's teaching, Kṛṣṇa's teaching. Kṛṣṇa's teaching also is there, which is also Buddha's teaching. But more than that, because the persons amongst whom He was teaching, they were far, far elevated than the thieves and the rogues. That is the difference. Just like I am pushing on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, I am doing so many things which sometimes my Godbrothers out of envy criticize. But I know what is the circumstances how to do it. They do not know it. I know my business. So that is their fault. Their own buddhi business, then simply criticize "How he is acting." Find out some fault. Just like Lord Buddha was criticized by the Vedic brāhmaṇas, "Oh, you are stopping animal sacrifice? It is already in the Vedas. Because it is sacrifice, the animal is also sacrificed, so how you can stop animal sacrifice?" But Lord Buddha, nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. Śruti-jātam. In the Vedas there is recommendation for animal sacrifice, but he began to deride. So his business was to deride the Vedic principles, that "I do not care for these Vedas." Therefore Buddha's religion was not accepted in India. He criticized. He criticized the Vedic principles. In the Vedic principles there is recommendation for animal sacrifice, and he criticized, "This is not good. Don't do this." Therefore it is criticism. Vedic injunction should be accepted as it is. You cannot criticize. Then there is no Vedic authority. So therefore he defied Vedic authorities. As such, he was not accepted, strictly followers of the Vedas. But he has got a different purpose.
Prabhupāda: That's all. People after sense gratification. A diseased man, who cannot digest, if he thinks that "I shall eat this, I shall eat that, I shall eat that," but actually he cannot digest. Eating this or that, how it will help him? (laughs) If you have lost your digesting power, then if you change, "I eat this, I shall eat that," that will not help you. So the modern civilized man, he has lost the point how he can be happy. He is simply changing the program of sense gratification. That's all.
Ian Polsen: Becoming more and more desperate.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes. He has no other idea. Just like here in this material world the highest pleasure is sex life, so they are changing, different types of sex life, that's all. (break)
(break) We want to see that you are lover of God. God is one. God is neither Hindu nor Muslim nor Christian. So we want to see that you love God, that is all. That is our mission. You have forget... (break) ...understand little Bengali?
Guest: Oh, yes.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) ...the real word is tasmād. (indistinct) translation?
Devotee: "Translation: One should understand what is duty and what is not duty by the regulations of the scriptures. Knowing such rules and regulations one should act so that he may gradually be elevated."
Prabhupāda: They have manufactured different types of religions (indistinct). All these Radhaswami, (indistinct), Jains, Sikhs, they have manufactured... (indistinct) And our Vedic regulations (indistinct) Just like such a great personality as Buddha, simply he said that I do not follow the Vedic principles. (indistinct) That Buddhism could not flourish, although Buddhism began from India. (indistinct) He started this Buddha but because he did... Simply he said that I do not accept your Vedas, immediately... Such a great personality (indistinct) So anyone who does not follow the śāstra, the essence of śāstra is (indistinct) So anyone who studies Bhagavad-gītā minutely, (indistinct). These European, American boys, because they're strictly following the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, (indistinct). Only thing is they're following (indistinct) śāstra. (indistinct) ...waste of time, śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Simply wasting time. (indistinct) Prayer has failed all over the world because they are neglecting the (indistinct). Nobody goes to church. Churches, churches are now being sold. In London, have you been in London? There are hundreds and thousands of churches, they're simply (indistinct), nobody goes there. Not only in England, in America also. In America still, they are going on, because there are (indistinct) churches, but in England I will say, it is (indistinct). Very, very nice, you have been to (indistinct)? (indistinct) ...so excellent church, there is one flaw, very big church, well constructed. Now the church authority, desiring that the somebody, he's imagining (indistinct), he's imagining that this is such a nice church so our... Government has sent somebody to take this church, he's thinking Americans may take... No, why Americans will be interested to take the church, as it is... But he's thinking... That means he wants to dismantle the church. But church now will not allow. He's finding out some customer who will take the church (indistinct). So their headquarter land is very valuable. So if the land is vacated, then you may have a little church and other land he can utilize for himself. That is his proposition. And so far purchasing the church, there may be, but others will purchase the church for dismantling and making a nice skyscraper building. They do not want actually. Church now will not allow.
Prabhupāda: No. Just like the one strata is like that. After an hour, it will be different. So what is the use of your studying this strata? Therefore it is called jagat. Jagat means always changing. The material world is always changing. Your body. This body will stay, say, for fifty years, hundred years. Then you get another body. That's all. Another body. Jagat means changing. Now this color is there. Say, after one hour it will be white. You see. Then you study this black color. Again you study the white color. Again this black color. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Chewing the chewed. That is your business. Just like seasonal changes. Now it is cold. Any moment, you'll have to get out (of) these clothes. It is very warm. So these changes are going on. The whole material cosmic manifestation is subjected to different types of changes. Therefore it is called jagat. Jagat means going, changing. Your body's changing. Similarly everything is changing. What is the eternity behind these changes? That is knowledge. That, the eternity, they do not find. Therefore they are disappointed: "It is void, zero. Eternity is zero." That's all. And when they are asked wherefrom the zero, varieties come...? Zero means there is nothing. So how the varieties come? Therefore Vedic conclusion, the varieties, there is, eternity variety. And this is only shadow of that variety. It is not eternal because it is shadow. But the real variety spiritual world, is there.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the material planet, material universe, is a real image.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Image. Yes. Mirage.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Mirage.
Prabhupāda: Yes, mirage.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No mirage is... Mirage is not the real image....
Pradyumna: "...who is the full-fledged Absolute Truth. Brahman is His transcendental bodily effulgence, and Paramātmā is His partial representation. As such, Brahman or Paramātmā realization of the Absolute Truth is but a partial realization. There are four different types of living beings. The karmīs, the jñānīs, the yogis and the devotees. The karmīs are materialistic, whereas the other three are transcendental. The first-class transcendentalists are the devotees who have realized the Supreme Person. The second-class transcendentalists are those who have partially realized the plenary portion of the Absolute person. And the third-class transcendentalist are those who have barely realized the spiritual focus of the Absolute Person."
Reporter: Who are those three, jñānīs...?
Prabhupāda: Jñānīs, yogis...
Reporter: And karm...
Prabhupāda: Karmīs, jñānīs, yogis...
Reporter: And bhaktas.
Prabhupāda: So karmīs are not transcendentalists. They're materialists. But jñānīs, yogis and bhaktas, they're transcendentalists.
Reporter: Yeah. So jñānīs are third class.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Jñānīs are...
Prabhupāda: What that higher platform? Eating, you require to maintain the body. I eat something, you eat another. That does not mean higher or lower. You eat, I also eat. That's all. You eat according to your taste. I eat according to my taste. So the eating is the real symptom, not the varieties of eating. By varieties of eating, suppose I... A animal, the cow is eating grass, and you are eating the same animal by keeping a huge slaughterhouse with machines and... Does it mean that you have improved your eating process? Simply by having big, big machine and ghastly scenes. And the animal eats simple grass. Does it mean that you are advanced than the animals? There is no logic. Eating is eating. One man's food, another man's poison. That is another thing. But eating is there. Somebody eats poison. Somebody eats ordinary thing. But eating is there. So nobody can avoid eating. That is the main symptom. Even in human society, there are different varieties of food. We Indians, we like a different type of dish. European, Americans, they like a di... But eating is there. Either American, Indian or cats, dogs, eating must be there. That is real symptom. After eating, you must sleep. That is essential. So where is the difference of real character, characteristic between the animals and the human beings?
Yogeśvara: Then his point was that we find God's creatures, many of them, not just human beings, but it's a symptom of life everywhere that meat-eating is allowed. There are many creations, he said, many species...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Eating, that is another thing. First of all, if the, point is that you say that the animals have no soul. So what is the special point that you are speaking of the animals having no soul? You eat meat, or I eat rice, that doesn't matter, but eating is there. That is the common thing. You cannot say the animal does not eat or man does not eat. Only animal eats. No. Everyone eats. First of all, you enunciate: how do you say that the human being has got soul and the animal has not soul? What are the special symptoms?
Prabhupāda: No. Our Bhagavad-gītā says: sarva-yoniṣu. "In all species of life, as many forms are there, so the spirit soul is there." This outward body is just like a dress. You may have a very costly dress, and I may have a very shabby, poor dress, but both of us are human being, or living entities. Similarly these different forms of living entities, they are just like different types of dress. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). Just like you are in black dress. I am in saffron dress...
Cardinal Danielou: Yellow, yes.
Prabhupāda: So this is external. But within the dress you are a human being, I am also human being. Similarly, there are eight million four hundred thousands of dresses. There are nine hundred thousand dresses within the water, aquatics.
Yogeśvara: (translates)
Prabhupāda: Similarly, two million kinds of dresses of the trees, plants, like that. In this way the Vedic literatures have calculated, there are eight million, four hundred thousand forms of living entity. But they're all living entities, part and parcel of God. Just like one man has got ten sons. Not all of them equally meritorious. Not all. One may be high-court judge. And one may be ordinary clerk in the office. But father, both the high-court judge and the clerk in the office, father claims both of them as son.
Cardinal Danielou: Yes, yes, I agree.
Prabhupāda: For father, there is no such distinction that: "This high-court judge is very important and the clerk in the office, my son, he's not important." So if the enlightened son, high-court judge, says to the father: "My dear father, your, this son, is useless. Let me cut him and eat." Will the father allow?
Prabhupāda: That is very dangerous. Then you will all fall down. If you make a joint mess, if you go and collect something and then eat and sleep, then everything will be... Therefore I do not want to keep separate. The temple worship means there will be regulative principles, that you will have to rise early in the morning, you have to attend class, kīrtana... These things, as soon as you give up all these things, zero. Then it will be like karmīs, as they are, hard labor, collecting money, and enjoying senses. That's all. So that is the pitfall everywhere. In the church, temple, as soon as they get some nice income, then in the name of "priest," "sādhu," "sannyāsī," they do the same thing. Therefore Gosvāmīs, they left everything. That is the danger of viṣaya, viṣaya touch. Viṣaya chāḍiyā se rase majiyā. As soon as we give up this śravaṇam, kīrtanam, then it becomes viṣaya. Viṣaya means materialism. There is no spiritualism. Kṣurasya dhārā, kṣurasya dhārā. Kṣura means sharpened razor. If you are careful, you cleanse very nicely. If you are not careful, immediately blood. Immediately. So the spiritual life is like that. As soon as you become little inattentive, immediately māyā captures, "Yes, come on." Then everything failure. We have got the tendency to enjoy sense. So senses are strong. As soon as there is opportunity, the senses will take advantage immediately. Then your whole business finished, Choṭa Haridāsa, and rejected by Mahāprabhu, "Get out." Even associate of Caitanya Mahāprabhu failed, personal associate. So there is chance of falling down even from the personal association of God. Jaya-Vijaya, they had to become demons. So these are the... If we do not follow strictly our regulative principles, routine work, then the whole scheme will be failure. Then, instead of Christianity, it will be "churchianity." You know this word, "churchianity?" You know? Yes. Everywhere this churchianity is going on. And the real aim is how to enjoy sense, under different cover. That is going on all over the world. Therefore it has come to that Rajneesh. Ramakrishna Mission, Rajneesh mission. Vivekananda has given preached, Yata mata tata patha, Rajneesh also, a mata. They have got also followers. Everyone can manufacture his own way of religion. So sense enjoyment, there is free field. This material world means sense enjoyment. But spiritual life means no sense enjoyment, tapasya. Tapo divyam. Sense enjoyment is there even in the hogs. Then where is the difference between man and hog? The man means the more he has denied sense enjoyment, he is advanced. Otherwise the spirit of sense enjoyment there is in the hogs. That is the difference. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). These ordinary men, they are working so hard, but what is their aim? The aim is sense enjoyment. So keeping the point, sense enjoyment, in view, there is no difference between hogs and human beings. Because they are also working day and night, hogs. A particular animal has been mentioned in the śāstra. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. This ayaṁ deho nṛloke, in the human society, is not meant for working so hard simply for sense enjoyment because this spirit is visible even in the hogs. Then what it is meant...? Tapaḥ. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa (SB 6.1.13). That is the point. Śamena, damena. Satya-śaucābhyām. Everything is there. And there are different types of sense enjoyment: rūpa, rasa, gandha, śabda, sparśa, six kinds.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because we have got little freedom. Therefore this freedom is given, "All right..." So by freedom, sometimes we are becoming Lord Brahmā and sometimes the germ in the stool. This is going on. Otherwise, why there are so many different types of living entities? That freedom is acting under three modes: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, and tamo-guṇa. And when they are multiplied, three into three equals nine, nine into eighty-one; therefore 8,400,000 species. They experience everything. That is evolution, coming down, again going up, coming down again. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). So when they become exasperated, "No more." They want to become merging into the Supreme. When they are fatigued. After being karmī, then jñānī: "This is not good. What is actually our aim of life, let us search out." But because they make research in their teeny brain, they come to the conclusion, voidism and impersonalism, that "Make it zero, this botheration." That is also imperfect. So when they come to Bhagavān and engage himself in the service, then it is perfect, original.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They want things by experimental knowledge, and when they fail it, they say it is nothing.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is voidism. First of all they try to enjoy. When they fail... The jackal in the orchard first of all tried to get the grapes, jumping, jumping, jumping. When he could not get, then he said, "Oh it is sour. Don't require..." (laughter) They will say, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā: "This is all false. Let us go to Brahman." This is their philosophy. First of all they try as karmī, brmmmmmmm. (Prabhupāda makes loud car sound) (laughter) When all these brm brm brm, life after life, when he finds that there is nothing, "Oh, it is all false. Grapes are sour." Jackal jumping. There is need of God. You can write article.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, no. This is, this is the stage of śānta-bhakta. I am explaining śānta-bhakta.
Dr. Patel: I can understand you. You... (laughs)
Prabhupāda: No, no, it is according to śāstra, śānta. There are the different types of mellows, variety mellows. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. śānta, dāsya, sākhya... I do not say that you become my disciple. I don't say that.
Dr. Patel: I am your disciple in all respects. I should not put on your, these clothes and come and do all the...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. That is not our program. That is not our program. We do not ask anyone to change his cloth, never. I never ask them to change his cloth, or change his position. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy.
Dr. Patel: That's right. We, we always... We always consider a guru in the form of God. God comes to you in the form of a guru.
Prabhupāda: That is... That we also accept.
Dr. Patel: And that is the way I was... I mean, I love you, treat you as such and worship you.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: And if you think it is any other form, I have no objection, whatever bhāva you may call it. What is the matter?
Prabhupāda: No, I am speaking on the principle of śāstra. śānta-bhakta, dāsya-bhakta, sākhya-bhakta, vātsalya-bhakta, mādhurya-bhakta.
Prabhupāda: This is "against" or "for," this so-called "against" or "for," it has no meaning. Just like children fight, sometimes against, sometimes for. So it has no meaning. Unless one is raised in the spiritual consciousness, this so-called goodness and badness has no meaning. Caitanya-caritāmṛta kara says, dvaite bhadrābhadra sakali samāna: "In the material atmosphere, the so-called goodness and so-called badness, they're all the same, simply a different type of mental concoction. That's all."
Dr. Patel: If nothing but God exists, then bad thing is also God and good thing is also God. That that...
Prabhupāda: Therefore God realization is real good thing.
Dr. Patel: Real good thing.
Prabhupāda: Not this, "This is good, this is bad." That is relative world. You'll find everywhere something good.
Dr. Patel: Good and bad are the bhukti-yoga citta (?).
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Then you make citta-bhukti nirodha (indistinct) yoga, and that nirodha, yoga, again that vacuum should not be allowed to be formed, but it should be filled with the, with God.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: That is bhakti. Am I right?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Acyutānanda: But as Arjuna he acts as an ordinary jīva?
Prabhupāda: Yes, there are different types of śaktyāveṣa avatāra. So when an ordinary jīva is specially empowered, he is called śaktya aveṣa avatāra, śatktyaveṣa avatāra, vibhūti. Yad yad vibhūtimat sattvam. He is living entity, but especially empowered. Just like for certain business I give sometimes somebody power of attorney, that "He will do this. He will sign for me." Like that. He is also one of the disciples, but for particular purpose, he is given the power of attorney. In this way when a living entity is empowered specifically to do something, that is called śaktyāveṣa avatāra. Aveṣa avatāra. Kṛṣṇa śakti vinā nāhe nāma pracāra. That is explained in the... These are explained in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. (break) ...śaktya. Mama tejo-'ṁśa-sambhavam. So śaktyāveṣa avatāra is not viṣṇu-tattva. He is jīva-tattva. So the Lord Jesus Christ or Lord Buddha, they come within the jīva-tattva especial power.
Bhāgavata: They are śaktyāveṣa avatāras.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Acyutānanda: So Nara-nārāyaṇa Ṛṣi is which?
Prabhupāda: Nara-nārāyaṇa Ṛṣi was a ṣaktyāveṣa avatāra.
Acyutānanda: So Arjuna has no constitutional connection with them, but at that time he was equal, by deputed potency. But they are individuals.
Devotee: The Jains have the same kind of philosophy also.
Prabhupāda: Everyone. All philosophies, they are more or less Māyāvāda. All Māyāvāda. Different types of Māyāvāda philosophy. Therefore they should be discarded. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you very much. What you are, all students?
Students: Yes. (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Student: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: You have seen our temple?
Student: Not seen your temple.
Prabhupāda: So? You are not interested in Kṛṣṇa philosophy?
Indian man (2): That's right. They are very interested.
Prabhupāda: The... Every young boy, or even young child... Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha (SB 7.6.1). And that is the instruction of Prahlāda Mahārāja. He was a five years old child, and he was teaching his class friends Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So in that teaching he said... The other children, they said, "Why you are teaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Let us play." So he answered, "No, no, my dear friends." Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha. This science, Bhagavad-dharma, should be learned from the very beginning of life. That is Vedic culture. Brahmacārīs, they were living at the place of guru and learning this science. That is Vedic culture. (break) ...boys of Europe and America, they are accepting this Vedic culture. Why you are keeping aloof? What is the reason?
Prabhupāda: Any education. You train a child to the standard of that education and he will develop his intelligence. A child who does not know what is what, the father says "This is... My dear child, it is watch." Once, twice, thrice, you call, "Watch, watch, watch," he learns, "This is watch." Jaya, Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi, aside) So one has to awaken the intelligence. So that supreme intelligence is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When one comes to the point of supreme intelligence, that is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like a rose flower, when it comes to the full blooming stage, it is very beautiful, fragrant, like that. So when a living entity comes to the understanding of his constitutional position, what he is actually, and acts like that, that is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then it is full development. That is called buddhi-yogam. Buddhi is there, intelligence is there, and when it is fully developed for understanding Kṛṣṇa, that is called buddhi-yogam. Yes. Buddhi-yogam. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is described, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi taṁ yena mām upayānti. Buddhi-yogam means the intelligence, but... Don't come near. The intelligence which gets the living entity back to home, back to Godhead. That is called buddhi-yogam. Any yoga system means connecting link with the Supreme. When we speak of buddhi-yogam, that is the ultimate yoga. That is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gata antar-ātmanā (BG 6.47). All different types of yoga practice, the most important and topmost yoga practice is to think of Kṛṣṇa always within oneself. That is being practiced, Hare Kṛṣṇa. The topmost yoga system. (break) You are experienced. Try to understand this philosophy and give it to your country. Your country is a most important country in Europe. Roman civilization.
Prabhupāda: We have to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness because such consciousness will help us to be free from the contamination of these different types of material consciousness and save us from transmigrating from one body to another. So we accept this different association on account of our strong propensity for sense gratification. Therefore we have to purify the senses so that the senses may be engaged in the service of the master of the senses. Hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate.
- sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ
- tat-paratvena nirmalam
- hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa-
- sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate
- (CC Madhya 19.170)
Bhakti means to be free from all sorts of material designation. "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Italian,"—these are all designations of the body. So we have to become free from these designations. And that is called nirmalam, purification. And when we are nirmalam, without any contamination, then we can engage the senses in the service of the master of the senses. Master of the senses is Kṛṣṇa, or God. Actually, He is master of the senses. Just like I am feeling comfort by using this sense, touch sense, hand, in this way, but I am not master because at any moment this hand can be paralyzed. So I am not the master. The master is Kṛṣṇa. So if it is engaged in the service of the master, then it is in its normal condition. And then we are liberated. And this purification you can take very easily by chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa—that means immediately associate with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's name and Kṛṣṇa, nondifferent. So as, if we associate with fire it becomes warm, the quality of the fire comes; as it is materially possible, spiritually it is possible in perfect order. Process is the same. You associate with Kṛṣṇa, and you become Kṛṣṇaite, as pure as Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is therefore advising, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). So Kirpal Singh also studies Bhagavad-gītā? I am asking this. Kirpal Singh, he teaches on the Bhagavad-gītā?
Prabhupāda: Yes, these different types of philosophers are always there, not only in the medieval age, in the previously also. It is said, na cāsāv ṛṣir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. "A philosopher is not a philosopher if he does not present a different view." (laughter) This is stated in the Bhāgavata. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnaḥ (?). Tarka, by argument, logic, you cannot come to the right conclusion because you may be a good logician and then you meet another logician who is better than you. So his arguments may be stronger than your argument. Therefore, simply by arguments or logical premises, you cannot approach the Absolute Truth.
Richard Webster: Oh, yes. I agree.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And śrutayo vibhinnaḥ. Literatures are also, authentic literatures... Śrutayaḥ means authentic literature, which is acceptable. They are also various type. Just like Vedas. There are four Vedas: Sāma-Veda, Yajur-Veda, Atharva-Veda, Ṛg-Veda. Then the Upaniṣads are there. Then the Vedānta-sūtra is there. So if we study all this Vedic literature or any other similar literature, it is very difficult to find out the Absolute Truth. Śrutayo vibhinnaḥ. And if we take the philosophers, so one philosopher differs from another philosopher. Na cāsāv ṛṣir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. Therefore, to approach the Absolute Truth, God, is very difficult subject matter. Therefore our principle is mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Mahājana means the recognized persons, recognized by the Supreme Lord, such persons we follow. We have got a list of recognized persons, just like Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva, the Manu. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā, Manu's name is there. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam, vivasvān manave prāha (BG 4.1), this Manu. So Manu, then Kapila, then Prahlāda, Janaka, Vyāsadeva, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, Yamarāja. In this way there are twelve mahājanas. And we receive knowledge from either of them. That is bona fide philosophy. That is called paramparā system. The original teacher is Kṛṣṇa and from Him the sun-god, Vivasvān, learned it. He spoke to his son, Manu. Manu spoke to his son, Ikṣvāku. In this way the paramparā system is coming. And that is bona fide. This is our philosophy, to accept knowledge from the perfect person or his bona fide representative.
Prabhupāda: Christianity does not mean in New York it should be different and Rome it should be different. Then nobody is following.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Could it be, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that this sanction of wine drinking be from God? Could that sanction come from God? Do we think that is possible?
Prabhupāda: We don't find there is sanction by God to drink. But under certain circumstances, beverages, different types of beverages allowed, not for intoxication but for keeping health. That is different thing. Just like in the moon planet, it is mentioned they drink soma-rasa. Soma-rasa is a kind of beverage made from extract of herbs. So because it is very cold there, so they drink that, but not for intoxication. People drink for intoxication. Just like in medicine, so many drugs are used. Even opium is used. Yes. Morphia is used. But they are not used ordinarily. For a specific purpose. Even snake poison is used, but that does not mean snake poison should be used perpetually. So for benefit of the body under particular circumstances something may be recommended, but that is not for general use or for intoxication. That is condemned. Just like animal killing is sometimes prescribed in the yajña. The purpose is different. But that does not mean unrestricted animal killing in the slaughterhouse should go on, no. That is sinful. So if we violate the laws perpetually, then how we can consider as belonging to a certain group of religious system? There must be principles.
Richard Webster: Well. I understand. But I only think that the dietetic rules would be perhaps an obstacle to the spreading... I mean certain rules which are clean against European or American custom might constitute an obstacle to the spreading of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I mean, in the Roman Catholic church you have the monks. Then you have the laity who observe less strict rules without being considered outside God. And you don't have that, do you? I mean, the Kṛṣṇa movement is a movement of what we should call monks or religious... There is no laity in the Roman Catholic Christian sense, people of the world who are doing messy things, I mean, trading the drugs or whatever it is because it's a job they have to do, but belong to the church without being strictly religious.
Prabhupāda: At least the church people, the priests, they must follow strictly the rules.
Bhagavān: So in our community, when we grow things, or we have need of someone's services, how are these services distributed equally? Let's say we grow cauliflower, we grow peas, we grow wheat. Is it that each family must be responsible and take only what he needs? How is it distributed?
Prabhupāda: No, no. These varieties... Suppose you grow half a dozen different types of vegetables. So from this half a dozen you can make three dozen varieties. If you are a good cooker. So the varieties of enjoyment will be fulfilled. We have got some desire of different quality of varieties. That you can make. From milk, vegetable, grains, the three things, you can make three hundred varieties.
Bhagavān: But my question is, if the community produces... Some class of men produce vegetables and grains, some class produce cows, some class produce clothes, some class produce necessities for building. How are these things distributed equally?
Prabhupāda: Because we are community, we shall distribute whatever necessity for everyone.
Bhagavān: They will come and say, "I need this much cloth, I need this much milk."
Prabhupāda: No, this much cloth... But if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you will be satisfied with the minimum necessities of life. That is natural. You won't demand.
Yogeśvara: So actually such a program can only be successful proportionately with the rise of Kṛṣṇa consciousness of the people.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the main basic principle. Without being Kṛṣṇa conscious, if you arrange like this, that will never be successful.
Yogeśvara: They won't be satisfied.
Prabhupāda: Yes the whole basic principle I have already explained. Because they are animals, so sometimes ferocious animal. That's all. Animal, there are different types of animals. Tigers and lions, they are ferocious animal. But you live in the animal society. So animal society, some, another animal comes as very ferocious, that is not very astonishing. After all, you are living in animal society. So you become human being, ideal. This is the only solution. We have already declared, this is animal society. If some ferocious animal comes out, so where is the astonishment? After all, it is animal society. Either a tiger comes or elephant comes, they are all animals. That's all. But you don't become animal. Counteract. That is required. Then after... A human being is called rational animal. If you come to the rationality, that is required. If you remain also another animal, another type of animal, that will not help you. You have to become actually human being. But durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam. You have to... These people they have no aim of life. What is the aim of human..., they do not know. So their animal propensities are being adjusted this way, that way, this way, that way. Just like they go to see naked dance. The animal propensity—he is seeing his wife daily naked, and still he is going to see naked dance, and paying some fees. Because they have no engagement except this animalism. Is it not? So what is the use of going to see another woman naked? You are seeing every day, every night, your wife naked. Why you are... Because they have no other engagement. The animals. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). That a dog, it does not know what is the taste. He is simply chewing the, one bone, this way, that way, this way, that way. Because he is animal. He has no other engagement. So this whole society is animal. Especially the westerners. And they have developed a civilization on that animal propensities, means "I am this body, and the best use of my life is to gratify senses." This is animal. "I am this body." Body means the senses. "And to satisfy the senses is the highest perfection." This is their civilization. So you have to introduce real human civilization. You should not be surprised, an animal, in different shapes, in different capacity, comes out. After all, he is an animal.
Prabhupāda: Buddha is śaktyāveśa-avatāra. We accept Lord Jesus Christ also, śaktyāveśa-avatāra; Mohammed, śaktyāveśa-avatāra. Śaktyāveśa-avatāra means a living entity especially empowered and he preaches the philosophy on behalf... That is called śaktyāveśa-avatāra. There are different types of avatāras. Guṇāvatāra, manvantarāvatāra, yugāvatāra, līlāvatāra, śaktyāveśāvatāra, like that. They are described in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. About avatāras. You find out Teachings of Lord Caitanya, avatāras. Innumerable avatāras. Come here. Find out this chapter. Avatāra saṅkhyeyaḥ. It is compared, just like in the river, the waves are flowing. You cannot count, or in the... What is that? Avatāra. Read, read that chapter.
Nitāi: "Lord Caitanya continued: The expansions of Lord Kṛṣṇa who come to the material creation are called avatāras, or incarnations. Avatāra means one who descends from the higher spiritual sky. In the spiritual sky there are innumerable Vaikuṇṭha planets, and from such a planet, the expansion of the Supreme Personality of Godhead comes to this universe, and therefore He is called avatāra. Avatāra means to descend. The first descent of the Supreme Personality of Godhead from the expansion Saṅkarṣaṇa is the puruṣa incarnation. This is confirmed in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, both in the First Canto, Third Chapter, as well as in the Sixth Chapter. It is said there that the Supreme Personality of Godhead descends as the first puruṣa incarnation of the material creation, and He immediately manifests sixteen elementary energies. He is known as Mahā-Viṣṇu lying in the Causal Ocean, and He is the original incarnation in the material world. He is the Lord of time, nature, cause and effect, mind, ego, and the five elements, the three modes of nature, the senses and the universal form. He is independent and the master of all objects, moveable and immovable, in the material world. The influence of the material nature cannot reach beyond the Virajā or the Causal Ocean, and this is confirmed in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Second Canto, Ninth Chapter. On the Vaikuṇṭha planets there is no influence of the modes of material nature. There is no mixture of modes of goodness, passion and ignorance, neither is there any influence of material time.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The father is God, and they are all sons. But they have, they have been given different types of dress according to karma. So when actually one loves God, he loves all of them as brothers, not that only human being. That is not love of God. Then he does not know what is God. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll not find a single sentence where it is recommended that "Only love the human being." There is no such thing.
Yogeśvara: (translates)
Frenchman: (French)
Yogeśvara: He's asking, "Well, that's all right. But this love that we have for God, only man can give it. An animal can't love God. A tree can't love God."
Prabhupāda: But you can love animal. You are not animal. Animal... Just like we are discussing about theosophy because we are grown up, and the child, he cannot understand. That does not mean we shall be unkind to the children. He may be ignorant, the animal may be ignorant, but I am not ignorant. How can I kill the animal?
Swiss Man (1): (French)
Yogeśvara: He's asking, "How do we see ourselves and how is it that we intentionally distinguish ourselves by dressing differently, by having a different presentation than the rest of society."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That may be. The composition may be. We take grossly five matters, gross matters, and five subtle matters. Five gross matters: this earth, water, air, fire, ether. These are gross matters. And subtle matters: mind, intelligence and ego. These are eight different types of gross and subtle matters. But they depend on the still more subtle thing. That is soul. If the soul is there, the gross matter, this material body, it grows, the mind acts, the intelligence acts, the ego acts, and as soon as the soul is out of this body, it does not act. It decomposes and again turns into gross matter. That's all. Therefore that spirit soul is the basic ground wherefrom the matter develops. Matter is developing, we can understand. A small child is developing big, fatty body. The elephant. But in the middle, if you stop, if you drive away the spirit, it will not grow.
Robert Gouiran: There is also something we should do, we do in that rat race when we study the structure of matter that we could discover a new type of energies which could help humanity to survive. So it's not pure speculation. We don't know if it could be used. We don't know yet if what we are looking for is useful or not, but past experience has shown that humanity needs energy to live...
Prabhupāda: The energy is already there.
Robert Gouiran: Fire, electricity, or some other type of energy.
Prabhupāda: Energy is already there. You are working. I am working.
Prabhupāda: A girl is pregnant, suppose, then, during her pregnancy period, ten months, there is no sex, and unless the child becomes six months old, there is no sex. The thing is that in the modern world, sex life has become the only pleasure. They do not know anything else. Therefore everything is discredited. And another thing is they are afraid of keeping more than one wife for population. But if they produce sufficient food, where is the question of overpopulation? Another thing they have made, especially in the western world, they don't want to produce food because they know, "We shall kill one animal and eat. Why take so much trouble? Let me increase industry, and I shall push my button. Money will come. And the slaughterhouse there. We shall eat." So they are getting money. By money, they are getting women to the choice. They are getting food, meat, and they're enjoying drinking. So money has become the whole thing. "Bring money some way or other and enjoy." This is the purport of civilization. They do not care what is God, that human body is meant for God realization. They have no such ideas. "There is nothing after death. So so long I am living, let me enjoy by the tongue, by the genital and by the belly. Use the tongue for eating anything which is palatable, which I like. Never mind what it is. And then genital also. Bring as many women..." This is civilization, modern. There is no question of sinful life or pious life, next life. (laughs) Another, their theory is that only on this planet there is living entities... (break) If there is sufficient rain in the desert, it will be also hot. (break) ...tells us in the śāstras how to live comfortably and advance in spiritual life. And they should give advice to others. That is the business of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau tri-bhuvane mānyau śaraṇyākarau. This is the description of the Gosvāmīs. They are well versed in all different types of Vedic scriptures just to establish a peaceful society sad-dharma, very nice gentleman, peaceful society. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau, for the benefit of the whole human society. Therefore they are honored all over the world. This is gosvāmī business, not to exploit (indistinct) live like irresponsible man, eat, drink, be merry and enjoy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all, vague idea. We say, "Here is God." So if you actually believe in God, why don't you take this God and the whole, all different types of religions become one? If you accept God, then we say, "Here is God." So where is the point of difference? How do you differ? Why do you say that you are different religion, my religion? Why do you say, "My religion"? Everyone... This is the only religion: to know God and love Him. What is their objection? To accept God, Kṛṣṇa? What is their object? What is their reason?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They want to gratify their senses.
Prabhupāda: Why do you make a different God? If you actually believe in God, I say, "Here is God." Why don't you accept? Eh?
Satsvarūpa: Impersonalism. They don't want...
Prabhupāda: That is not God. God is person. That means you do not know God.
Devotee: They say Jesus Christ is God too.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Jesus Christ is God. That's right. But Jesus Christ said, "I'm son of God."
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Yes. He said, "I'm at the right hand of the Father."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But you want to approve God, if we agree to that, then this is the easiest process. You chant God's name and you approach. Why again new? This is the easiest proposition. Eh? Chant God's name and you approach.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: In the Bhagavad-gītā it says that those who are different modes of nature, they have different types of charity and different types of religion. So does this mean religions that are already established in the Vedas or...
Prabhupāda: That is means conditional religion. That is not absolute religion. In order to, what is called, summarize all types of religion... Just like Kṛṣṇa says, mama vartmānuvartante manuṣyāḥ pārtha sarvaśaḥ, "Everyone is trying to come to Me." So they are coming by different paths. So that is accepted. Now, when he says that "I am here. You're coming to Me, now you just surrender. Then everything is all right." Why don't you accept that? Why do you insist, "No, I shall come in a different way, different path"? What is this nonsense? God is saying "All right, you have got different paths, but give up that. Now simply surrender to Me." Where I am objection? If I am a really lover of God, God is saying like that, why not accept that? Why shall I pay for different paths? Eh? Suppose in this jungle you are scattered and you are searching "Where is Prabhupāda? Where is Prabhupāda?" And somebody says, "Come this way. Come this way." And if I say, "Not this way, that way. Come here. Come here." What is your objection? Eh? Either you don't want me... (laughs) Eh? You don't want me. You want to play some whimsical way. You are not serious about me? If you're actually serious about God, God says here, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām e... (BG 18.66). "Give up all this nonsense. Just surrender un..." Why they do not accept it. Eh? What is your answer, Satsvarūpa?
Prabhupāda: This Darwin is a rascal. He cannot... He has taken some idea from this Padma Purāṇa, and he has developed in a befooling way. There are different types of human beings, four hundred thousand species. (pause) (break) ...is to conquer over the stringent laws of nature. Is it not?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No? What is the purpose of scientific research?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: To conquer over the laws of nature.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Is it not? The laws of nature is already powerful. So you have not conquered over the laws of nature. Then how science is powerful?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: You cannot conquer the laws of nature.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Science cannot conquer the laws of nature. That is why they try to think only about the body, the bodily concept. To give them comfort to the body by...
Prabhupāda: Their center is sex—this sex or that sex or that sex, even ordinarily. In Paris, Paris you know it is a city of prostitutes. On the roads there are prostitutes. Where we have got our temple, so many prostitutes are standing. And those who are prostitute-hunter, they go to Paris. From our childhood I know about one family physician. We are at that time boy, 8 or 10 years old. He was talking with his another Muhammadan friend how he toured many countries and how many different types of prostitutes he tasted. This was his talk. So he was talking of Paris, "Though you are boy...," this we could understand." This is the talk. Old men, retired men, they will also talk of the sex (indistinct), and they will enjoy. Now they could not enjoy sex, but by talking... And we have practically seen when we were young, our grandmother-in-law, my mother-in-law's mother, old lady, she would talk freely about sex. She will ask me, "You capture the breast of your wife." She would make a pun and enjoy. "You do like that, you do like that." She teaches like that. We were... I was twenty, twenty-three years, so I was just married, but she will enjoy sex. She had other grandchildren. My father-in-law were two brothers. So my father-in-law, he was younger brother, and his elder brother, her daughter also the same age, she would enjoy (indistinct) son-in-law. (break) Ministers, prime ministers. The minister, famous.
Brahmānanda: (indistinct)
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That's all. You cannot produce petrol. Just like gold is already there, manufactured by God. You can make only different types of ornaments, that's all. Everything. This metal covering of this body, you have not produced this metal. They are like the carpenter. The carpenter has not produced the wood nor the metal instrument nor himself, but he is working. This body is also not produced by him. That is also made by Kṛṣṇa. His intelligence is also made by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is giving the body. Kṛṣṇa is giving the intelligence. Kṛṣṇa is giving the wood. Kṛṣṇa is giving the instrument. Now, if you produce some furniture, to whom it will belong? To the carpenter or to the supplier of everything? Who will enjoy it? Who will enjoy it? If the carpenter claims that "I have done it," that is foolishness. You have done it as a worker, and you have been supplied with everything, your intelligence, your food, your instrument, your ingredient. Therefore the supplier should be the proprietor, not the carpenter. That is real philosophy.
Hṛdayānanda: That's practically the law everywhere.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere.
Hṛdayānanda: Carpenter comes and he pays him.
Prabhupāda: And he is given payment. He is given food, shelter, everything, to work for Kṛṣṇa. Now Kṛṣṇa, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasām (BG 5.29). Whatever activities are going on there, the enjoyer is Kṛṣṇa, nobody else.
Prabhupāda: Just like we are sitting, ladies and gentlemen here. So every one of us, we have got different dress. The dress is superficial, but as ladies and gentlemen, human being, we are one. Similarly, each one of us can have a different dress. So these living entities, they are in different dresses only, and the dresses are calculated-8,400,000 different forms. In the water there are 900,000 different dresses. Similarly, the trees and plants, the two million different types of vegetables. Jalaja-nava-lakṣāni sthavara-lakṣa-viṁśati. There are insects. There are 1,100,000 species. Similarly birds, there are one million. And Pakṣiṇāṁ daśalakṣanam. Daśa-lakṣa means one million, one million types of bird. And three million types of beasts. And 400,000 forms of human being. In this way the living entity is passing through different dresses. And the best dress is this human form because in this dress you can understand what is God, what you are, what is your relation with God, and then you can act and go back to home, back to Godhead. Therefore if this dress, in this dress... I am living being; you are living being. So we are in this human form of dress. We have got developed consciousness. If we miss the opportunity to understand God, then again we are put into the cycle of this evolutionary process. We should not therefore misuse this form like other forms. We should utilize it properly to understand the unlimited God and our relationship with God and act accordingly. That is perfection of life.
Guest (Lady) (Hṛdayānanda): How can we relieve ourselves of material pain and live in spiritual pleasure?
Prabhupāda: Yes, as soon as you do not accept this material body, you have no connection with material pains and pleasure. (aside:) Get this light down.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like if you infect a certain type of disease, you must suffer from that disease. Similarly, there are three qualities of the material nature. So as you associate with that quality, you get a similar body. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). How one is getting better life, one is getting worse life, the reason is associating, infecting the different types of modes of nature. That education we have no... There is no such education, what kind of association we should make so that we can better life or we can go back to home, back to God. There is no such education. They are living like cats and dogs and going to be cats and dogs.
Reporter: Do I understand that the children in your school in Texas, that they're brought up in what you consider spiritual consciousness...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Reporter: Will they be virtually living outside...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Outside also you can live. Simply you must know how to live. At the present moment you do not know how to live. That's all. And there is no education how to live. All of us being sent to the slaughterhouse, that's all. They do not know how to live. In the Vedic civilization you will find the first proposition is how to live. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). How to live... First the human society is divided into four: the brāhmaṇa, the kṣatriya, the vaiśya, or the śūdra. The first-class intelligent man, they are educated as brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa means satya śama dama titikṣa ārjava, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). Just like we are training engineer, similarly, a class of men, those who are very intelligent, they should be trained up as brāhmaṇa. They should be trained up how to speak truth any circumstance. Even to the enemy he will speak truth. This requires training, not that foolishly, a cats' and dogs' life. What is the value of this life? The modern civilization, they do not know how to live. They are simply interested in eating, and that's also any nonsense eating. But according to Vedic civilization, "This eating is first class. This eating is second class. This eating is third class. This eating is fourth class." So many things required to correct the mistaken way of civilization. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes, actually without listening, so many big, big men, they have committed mistake about Bhagavad-gītā. Even Gandhi, he says that "I do not believe that there was a person, Kṛṣṇa, ever living." Just see. What to speak of others. (Hindi) Without listening from the right source, even a personality like Gandhi will commit mistake, what to speak of others. Similarly, Dr. Rādhākrishnan has committed so many mistake. So big, big scholars, they're trying to study Bhagavad-gītā, but they cannot understand. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). You first prepare yourself to surrender, praṇipāta, praṇipāta-prakṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa nipāta. Without any reservation, surrender, praṇipātena, by the surrendering process, and paripraśnena, by enquiring from the authority. Because it is not very easy to understand Kṛṣṇa. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). Out of many, many million persons one try to understand, one trying to become perfect, siddhaye. Siddhi means perfection. So yatatām api siddhānām: (BG 7.3) "Those who have attained siddhi, perfection, out of many such siddhas," kaścid māṁ vetti tattvataḥ, "maybe one man can understand Me." The first of all to become siddha. Then, after becoming siddha, one may understand Kṛṣṇa or he may not. Actually it is very difficult to understand Kṛṣṇa. But you can understand Kṛṣṇa if you adopt this process: praṇipātena, paripraśnena, sevayā-three things. You have to go to a person where you can surrender, not to a bogus person or one who is not competent to accept your surrender. And then you make question that "Kṛṣṇa says like this. What is the meaning of this?" Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati... (BG 7.3). And sevayā. Three things required: first of all surrender, and then question, and seva. You cannot question by challenging. You have to render service and surrender. Between the two, praṇipāta and sevayā, there is paripraśna. Then you will understand. Upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ jñāninaḥ tattva-darśinaḥ. Tattva-darśi, one who has seen the truth, he can enlighten you. This is the process. Otherwise, even Gandhi, Dr. Rādhākrishnan, Vivekānanda, all they have committed mistake. Aurobindo. Aurobindo has understood little to some extent, but not fully. But if we are fortunate enough, then we can understand Kṛṣṇa very easily. What is that? Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). "My dear Dhanañjaya, Arjuna, there is no more superior truth than Me." So if we accept that, either you say blindly or conscientiously, then that is perfection. Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: (BG 7.19) "After many, many births of philosophical speculation, when one actually becomes wise, jñānī, jñānavān, full of knowledge, then the result is māṁ prapadyate: he surrenders unto Me." Why surrender? Now, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19)—he understands that Kṛṣṇa is everything. Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ: "Such mahātmā is very rare." That I was... we were discussing that there are so many religious system in the world, but hardly they have got any clear conception of God. I have asked so many gentlemen belonging to different types of religion that "What is the clear conception of God?" So may I ask you also what is the clear conception of God?
Paramahaṁsa: They say if they feed them a special diet they have found it changes the cholesterol level in the beef, so if they eat it, they won't get heart attack like they used to. And it says, "The director of the National Heart Foundation, Ralph Reeder, said he believed the process was one of the most significant contributions in recent years toward controlling heart disease. 'It should not be taken lightly by skeptics. It is a world's first,' he said."
Amogha: Now they are also thinking that different types of meat cause cancer, not only heart disease but cancer.
Gaṇeśa: What have the scientists got to gain by bluffing?
Prabhupāda: Position. Material world means they want some material gain, some adoration, and some fame. That's all. This is material world. So if by bluffing you I get some material profit and adoration and fame, why shall I not do it? Everyone is doing that.
Amogha: That's the cheating propensity.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In material world they have come to imitate God—adoration, fame, material profit. Just like this man. He has come to this country. He is getting money, he is getting woman, and becoming God amongst the fools. He is satisfied. That's all. This is not gain? If I get woman, money, and adoration, is it not gain for me?
Gaṇeśa: Yes, just like Hiraṇyakaśipu.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Materialistic man means he wants all these things in different way. Somebody is becoming God, somebody is becoming philosopher, somebody is becoming scientist, in this way. Real purpose is these three things. Abha-pūjā-pratiṣṭhā. And our philosophy? We don't want anything of this. Just see. Negation. Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4). Say... All denial, "We don't want." That is Vaiṣṇavism. Then what do you want? "We want simply to serve Kṛṣṇa." This is our position. They don't want to serve Kṛṣṇa; they want to imitate Kṛṣṇa. And that is their satisfaction.
Prabhupāda: ...change your views victimized by these rascals. The rascals are very strong. (break) In the Sixteenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā it is said, pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ janā na vidur āsurāḥ. Asura. Asura, demons, demonic civilization, demonic people, they do not know what is pravṛtti and what is nivṛtti. Pravṛtti means material civilization, and nivṛtti means spiritual civilization. The modern man does not know. They are neither educated about this pravṛtti and nivṛtti. And we are speaking on nivṛtti, and all of them are in the pravṛtti. So they cannot understand. It is foreign to them. They have no idea what is spiritual life, spiritual civilization. Five thousand years ago Kṛṣṇa spoke of all these things very clearly. Later on, the things, from the beginning of Kali-yuga, the things are deteriorating, and therefore different types of religion has sprung up. The Buddhism, Christianism, Mohammedanism. They are not perfect understanding of religious principle. And gradually the number of so-called religious section are increasing. Our Mr. Nanda is presenting another religion, mānava-dharma. Everyone is manufacturing. And Vivekananda is supporting, "Yes, every type of religious system is as good." This is nonsense. Actually, they do not know what is religion. (pause)
Gaṇeśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Śrī Īśopaniṣad it is said that one must learn the process of nescience alongside with the process of self-realization.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Gaṇeśa: In the Īśopaniṣad, pravṛtti with nivṛtti. How is that?
Prabhupāda: What is that pravṛtti and nivṛtti?
Amogha: He says that in the Īśopaniṣad it says that you should learn the process of self-realization side by side with the process of nescience.
Prabhupāda: ...if there is government laws, if you do not know it and you act independently, then you are making your life risky. So this is the case of the government law, and what to speak of God's law, nature's law, how strict it is. You can avoid government's law, but you cannot avoid nature's law. That is not possible. So that is the defect of the modern civilization: they do not know how nature is working, and they are keeping themself in ignorance, and they are suffering, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), one body after another. And if he becomes a tree, stand up for five thousand years. And we have to pass through all these stages. He has come to the human form of body. Still he neglects. He continues suffering. They are mad after sense enjoyment; and accepting different material bodies, that means suffering. As soon as you accept a material body, this is suffering. But the suffering of the trees is more suffering. In a forlorn place he stand up for five thousand years and tolerate all the blast, wind, scorching heat, water.
He doesn't know that "I may become a tree like this." Then he must be... Why there are varieties of life? This is different type of punishment for different kinds of sinful activities. And he doesn't care for sinful activities. He got the human form of body, he doesn't care. Saintly persons, they are coming as Caitanya Mahāprabhu or Buddha or Christ. They are warning, "You do not do this." No, they will do it. So who is responsible for his sufferings? He is responsible. And so long he has got this short duration of life, fifty or sixty years or utmost hundred years, he is thinking, "I am free. Whatever I want, I can do," and making life risky. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. He is not independent. He knows that. Still, he will declare independence and suffer. This is the position. He is not independent; that he knows very well. But still, he will act independently. Is it not the position? Who can think that he is independent unless he is a madman? Hmm? Are you independent?
Devotee (1): No.
Prabhupāda: There are different types of yogas. And you will find
- yoginām api sarveṣāṁ
- mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā
- śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ
- sa me yuktatamo mataḥ
- (BG 6.47)
You have found out? Read it.
Paramahaṁsa:
- yoginām api sarveṣāṁ
- mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā
- śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ
- sa me yuktatamo mataḥ
- (BG 6.47)
Translation: "And of all yogis, he who always abides in Me with great faith, worshiping Me in transcendental loving service, is most intimately united with Me in yoga and is the highest of all."
Prabhupāda: This is bhakti-yoga.
Guest (2): Well, doesn't it mean that someone has to worship that person to be able to attain the enlightenment or Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone is worshiping a person. Everyone is... But we have to worship the Supreme Person. That is perfect. Everyone is worshiping a person. Suppose you are employed somewhere. You have to worship your boss. Otherwise no employment.
Prabhupāda: No, that is most dishonest. Oh, yes. You cannot interpret my book in your own way. That is not allowed. No gentleman will do that. You, if you have got a different view, you put your view in your own book. Don't drag my book. That is honesty. And because my book is popular, you take advantage of my book, and you interpret in your own way... This is most dishonest. You cannot do that.
Dr. Copeland: No, but when you have different types of things...
Prabhupāda: Different types we may have, but Kṛṣṇa's book, what Kṛṣṇa is saying, it should be presented as Kṛṣṇa says.
Dr. Copeland: Yeah, but then you think that you know what Kṛṣṇa says.
Prabhupāda: No, I say, "Bhagavad-gītā As It Is."
Dr. Copeland: Yeah, and other people think they know, too.
Prabhupāda: No, how they know? Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, simple thing. Find out this verse. What is the translation?
Amogha: "Always think of Me and become My..."
Prabhupāda: Now, Kṛṣṇa says, "Always think of Me." How you can say that "Don't think of Kṛṣṇa"? Is that very honesty? No, no, Kṛṣṇa may be wrong. That is another thing.
Dr. Copeland: Ah, okay. I'll buy that. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: This is winter holiday?
Guest 1: There are three terms. This is the first term holiday.
Amogha: They divide the year into three parts, and after each part they have a holiday.
Prabhupāda: We have got in India two period holiday, summer holiday and Pūjā holiday. There is a season for worshiping different types of demigods. That is called Pūjā. And in India when the summer becomes too hot, that is holiday. (guests prepare to leave) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Guest 1: I wish you a good trip and a happy trip.
Prabhupāda: Thank you.
Guest 1: And also I hope that the building in Sydney eventuates.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest 1: That you will see or hear about tomorrow morning.
Amogha: They're working on that tonight.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Off this light. (end)
Prabhupāda: Caitanyer dayār kathā kara vicāra: "Just analyze the merciful contribution of Caitanya Mahāprabhu with others." That you have already experienced, that they experimented in so many ways, but as soon as they come to Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy, saṅkīrtana, they become immediately, "Oh, this is the nicest thing." So that is vicāra, judgement. Caitanyer dayār kathā. There are many contribution of the world, many scientists, many physiologists, many... But Kavirāja Gosvāmī says, "Compare with the contribution of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Then you will be surprised." Oh! Just like they became surprised, immediately, "Oh, this is the nicest." That is stated by Kavirāja Gosvāmī, that "The merciful contribution given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu-compare with any other contribution of the world, scientist, physiologist and this and that. You will see this is the best." Caitanyer dayār kathā karaha vicāra. (break) (Prabhupāda talking with someone in Bengali about different types of dahl) (break)
Siddha-svarūpa: ...experiments that these... I know of the experiments that these men are doing. They're connected... They have gone to the Buddhists. They've gone to Buddhist monks and various people that are into voidism, and they've made these tests, and it comes out that there's no activity. So they're seeing this as being the goal. They're trying to see if the same perfection, result of perfection, is achieved by the chanting. They already have a preconceived notion of what perfection is, and if they're testing to see if...
Prabhupāda: To that standard.
Siddha-svarūpa: Yeah, if we're up to that standard of perfection of the Buddhist monks or the Zen monks or transcendental meditators or whatever. So I think it's a very bad thing to take part in that thing.
Prabhupāda: Who?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gandhi. I mean, she always turns towards the Muslims more.
Prabhupāda: No, no, she has guru. And she is going occasionally to Anandamayi.
Brahmānanda: Yeah, that guru has spoken highly of our movement. In Germany there was an interview of him in one German magazine, and he was asked about all different types of groups. And most of the groups he criticized, but our group he gave his recommendation, the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.
Prabhupāda: What did he say?
Brahmānanda: I don't remember exactly, but he stressed the importance of the chanting of the mahā-mantra. He said "It is an important means for God realization, and by doing this, one can achieve love of God, and they are spreading this all over the world."
Prabhupāda: So what do you think? Shall I write? Hm? I have made a draft of letter this night. So you come and see. Let us take a chance. We want actually good for everyone. And this is the only medicine, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. For any problem. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. People are suffering. If her guru has opined like that, then she may take some attention. Then it appears that guru is to some extent nice.
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: She gave interview to our men.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I saw her twice.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)
Jayatīrtha: ...gods are also included in this human species.
Prabhupāda: Different types of... Kinnara, 400,000.
Brahmānanda: Also different planets?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But everyone can become devotee. There is no harm. It is not that because one is in the lower species, he cannot become a devotee. Everyone can become a devotee. (break) ...yoni, they can also become perfect devotee. (break) This is the power of God. He can deliver anyone without any consideration. Therefore paṇḍita is sama-darśinaḥ, he does not make these divisions. He sees that "He is spirit soul. So let him be delivered." That's all. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśināh (BG 5.18). Materially there is division. He is black, he is white, he is this, he is that. This is material. Spiritually, there is no division. One. (break) They make, what is called, spiritual division also. That is their foolishness. Spiritually there is no division. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param (BG 18.54). Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (end)
Prabhupāda: Spiritual paths are divided into four. Not spiritual. Real spiritual, mixed spiritual. Just like this, "God, give us our daily bread." It is mixed spiritual. One has approached God, God is spiritual, but one is asking for material profit. So this is mixture, matter and spirit. So there are four classes generally known as karmī, fruitive actors, they work for getting some material profit. They are called karmī. Just like all men, you will see, they are working so hard day and night, driving their cars, (makes noise of cars) this way and that way. The purpose is how to get some money. This is called karmī. And then jñānī. Jñānī means he knows that "I am working so hard. Why? The birds, beasts, the elephants, big, big..., eight million different types of..., they are not. They have no business. They have no profession. How they are eating? So why unnecessarily I work so much? Let me know what is the problem of life." So they understand the problem of life is birth, death, old age and disease. And they want to solve it, how to become immortal. So they have conclusion that "If I merge into God's existence, then I become immortal or immune from birth, death, old age and disease." This is called jñānī. And some of them are yogis. They try to acquire some spiritual power to make a show how he can play wonder. A yogi can become very small. If you put him in a room, he will come out. You lock it. He will come out. If there is little space, he will come out. That is called anima. He can fly in the sky, float in the sky. That is called laghima. In this way, if somebody can show this magic, then immediately he is accepted as very wonderful man. So yogis, they... The modern yogis, they simply show some gymnastic, but they have no power. So I am not speaking of these third-class yogis. Real yogi means he has got some power. That is material power. So yogis also want this power. And jñānīs also want salvation from the unnecessary working like ass, the karmī. And karmīs want material profit. So they want, everyone. But the bhaktas, devotees, they don't want anything. They want to serve God out of love. Just like a mother loves her child.
Prabhupāda: What is the goal, single or plural, doesn't matter.
Prof. Hopkins: Well, some Christians would say the vision of God, the ultimate goal is to be with God.
Prabhupāda: That is really, to realize God. Not only Christian, any religion. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). There may be different types of religious systems but that system is first class which directly leads one to understand what is God and how to love Him. That's all. That is perfect religion.
Prof. Hopkins: So the question... The question in one sense is not whether it's Christian or Śaivite or Vaiṣṇavite but whether it is directed to a knowledge of God, a devotion to God or not.
Prabhupāda: That is first-class.
Prof. Hopkins: But you would feel that there, what, it is easier to reach that goal by worshiping Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa is the ultimate goal.
Prof. Hopkins: But is it easier or better to be a devotee of Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prof. Hopkins: A Kṛṣṇa bhakta than to be a Christian, say?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Anything genuine is easy. Anything hodgepodge, that is not good. We don't recommend hodgepodge.
Prof. Hopkins: So the advantage then, or the greater value is that it is focused and clear rather than a hodgepodge where the goal and the activities are not clear.
Prabhupāda: This is our product, to produce for the animal, (indistinct). So the animal eats it and he gives you milk. He's not eating (indistinct). He gives you the nicest food, full of vitamins. And you can prepare from milk hundreds and thousands of so many palatable things. That is civilization. And this is not civilization: "Because cow is so potential, so let me eat the cow." "Guru is so sattvic, spiritual; let me eat guru. Then I will be..." (laughter) This is philosophy. Cow is so full of vitamin, valuable. But civilization is that "Why should you eat the animal? Take the milk." What is this milk? Milk is nothing but the blood. So civilization means let the cow live, and you take the milk, which is nothing but blood. When the mother feeds the child with milk, wherefrom the milk comes? Milk comes from the blood of the mother. Therefore the mother is supplied nutritious food so that she can produce milk for the child. Similarly, cow is mother. What is this philosophy, "Kill the mothers and eat?" "Kill the child and eat?" What is this nonsense? Such crude things are going on in the name of civilization. You are manufacturing billion motor cars, and you cannot manufacture your food? God has given you so much land. This is not civilization. Civilization is how to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is civilization. One should be intelligent enough. Education must be directed in that way. But they do not know. Actually, they do not know it, that "My aim of life is how to go home, back to home, back to Godhead. That they do not know it. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). These rascals are trying to adjust things here materially and becoming more complicated, killing father, mother, and child even. (break) This is not civilization. Human being must be civilized. To know the goal of life and do it properly. That is instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā: "You rascal, give up all these so-called engagements. Surrender unto Me." This is civilization. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). This is civilization. Then you will be all right. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣa... You are engaged in so many sinful activities, as... Don't manufacture civilization. Take the idea of civilization from Kṛṣṇa. That is perfect civilization. The perfect civilization, Kṛṣṇa has giving idea, there must be first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class \en. And less than fourth-class, fifth-class. So, first-class man is described, śamo damaḥ tapaḥ śaucaṁ kṣāntir ārjavam, these are the qualifications, second-class these are the qualifications, third-class, fourth-class. So there are different varieties of men, so divide them according to the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, then whole human society will be... There are four division of your body—the head division, the arm division, the belly division, the leg division. If you engage the head for walking, that is mistake, and if you engage the leg for thinking, that is mistake. Similarly, there are different types of men, combine together, and it will be nice body, the leg will walk, the hand will protect, the head will give instruction, and the belly will get energy by eating food.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our mission. Somehow or other go on repeatedly saying.
Vāsughoṣa: Because even that atheist hippie, when he was... after he was talking to me about the cigarettes, then the next morning I sold him a book, so he gave twenty rupees.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the way. Some way or other, induce. (break) Obstinacy. What is that, "dog obstinacy"?
Dhṛṣṭaketu: They say, "Stubborn as an ass."
Prabhupāda: Hm. (break) ...selling different types of religious system so that one may not have to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. This is going on.
Vāsughoṣa: Many people were... On the way to... Even on the way to here...
Prabhupāda: And big, big swamis are saying, "Yes, whatever you manufacture, it is all right." Yathā mat tathā path: "Whatever ways you manufacture by concoction, that is all right." So they are satisfied. If somebody says that "You surrender unto me," that is not very palatable. If somebody says, "No, you can surrender anywhere," that is very palatable.
Brahmānanda: Because that means no surrender. To surrender anywhere...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: ...means no surrender.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: Then they're satisfied.
Prabhupāda: Yes, a covering. Vehicle also. Vehicle also. It is just like a machine. You go from one place to another on a motorcar machine. So this body is just like machine. On account of our material, conditional life we are thinking that "If I get this position, then I will be happy. If I get this position, I will be happy." We are creating mental concoction. But nothing will make us happy unless we come to our real position that "I am part and parcel of God. My business is to associate with God and help or cooperate with God." So that position we have to revive. And there are different types of vehicle, in the aquatic animals, then, I mean to say, plants. When the water is dried up, then vegetation comes. Then vegetation..., from vegetation, we... Trees and plants, they cannot move. Then we get little improvement; we can move, just like flies, insects, microbes, reptiles, and so many. So there are nine lakhs' forms of body within the water. Then two million types of bodies in vegetable, and then 1,100,000 species of life like microbes, germs, worms, insects. Then you come to the birds' life, three million different forms of. Then we come to beast life. That is also... Birds, I am sorry. Birds' life, one million, and then the beast life, three millions... Then we come to human form of body, and especially, gradually, we become civilized. So when we are civilized, then it is a chance to understand "what is God, what I am, what is our relationship." So if we don't take advantage of this civilized human life to understand God, and if we simply waste our life like cats and dogs, jumping and going here, then this is a great missing point. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to educate people not to miss this opportunity. You take full advantage on this human form of life and try to understand God and your relationship with God.
Faill: May I ask a few questions now?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Swastika is also there, Vedic mark. Especially for the impersonalists. But we take direct, beautiful Kṛṣṇa, and worship Him. (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: When did civilization begin? Well, the first men, they were uncivilized. Then, by little bit of intelligence they developed different types of tools and weapons. When, they have no date, though.
Prabhupāda: Therefore his civilization—so much, that's all. His standard of civilization, this much. (break) … no tree, even a small tree is considered big tree. (break) Man came from ape, so why man is not coming now from ape? Hm?
Harikeśa: It only happened once, and that was enough to start the whole thing.
Prabhupāda: Only once.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It had to happen at least twice.
Prabhupāda: That is another rascaldom. We see the flowers and fruits are coming every season. Why once? This dogmatic, we have to accept? Our experience is that by nature's way we find the same flower is coming again in the same season.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, actually Darwin said that there's a missing link.
Prabhupāda: You rascal, you say that. What is that missing link? Simply bluffing, and it is going on in the name of science. Just see the fun. Simply misleading, and people are so rascal, this civilized man, so-called, he is accepting as great theory.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Accepting?
| Page Title: | Different types of... (Conversations 1969 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 17 of Nov, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=55, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 55 |