Prabhupāda: They have no, I mean to say, information. There are so many departments in universities, technological, medical, engineering, but where is the department to know or understand what is this life, what is God, what is our relationship? So this is not very good civilization. So there is life after this life. Just like progressive life, a child is progressing to youthhood, the youth is aspiring to become a big man, important man. As in this life there is progressive life, similarly, life after life, there is also progress. There are different grades of life. So we get information from authoritative books that there are 8,400,000's of different grades of life, and there are 900,000's of aquatic life, two million species of plants and trees, about eleven hundred thousand species of life of birds, three million types of species of beast, and 400,000 species of this human body. Out of that 400,000's, different kinds of human bodies, the civilized body is a great boon. At that time we can make further progress. Either we can transfer to other planets... The standard of living, comforts, are many, many thousands times better than this planet. But in this book, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, we get information that within this material universe, wherever you go, either you remain in this planet or you go to the moon planet or to the sun planet, or there are millions and trillions of planets... The highest planetary system is called Brahmaloka. There the duration of life is very, very great. You cannot calculate even twelve hours of their days. These are described in this book, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam arhad yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). Four hundred... Three thousand years is the duration... Four hundred and, yes, four hundred and three thousands of years, solar years, is the one unit of yuga. Such thousand yugas makes twelve hours of the Brahmaloka planet. Similarly, they live there for a hundred years.
Different grades (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Do we have anything, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the reference, saying that all the living entities are already there?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that jīva-jātiṣu.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, and that implies?
Prabhupāda: Jīva-jāti, different grades of jīva. Jāti, you know jāti?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like there are different nations. They are already existing. So jāti means that. Jāti means born of a particular species. That is jāti. Jīva-jātiṣu. Ṣu, plural number. So many jīva-jātiṣu. He's simply Bhramadbhiḥ. Just like I am traveling, sometimes America, some Australia, sometimes... But they are already there. I am going sometimes in America, sometimes Australia, sometimes Africa, but they are already there. I am the man; I am traveling. Not that because I have to come to America, I create America. This is nonsense. And there are many countries I have not gone there. Does it mean that they are not existing? They have no even human reason, these rascal scientists. The common sense reason. And Bhagavad-gītā clearly says they are already existing. Wherever you like, you can go. You can go even up to the kingdom of God if you so desire. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Going to hell, that's all. You are trying to be naked; nature will say, "Yes, you stand here naked for ten thousand years." Yes. That is the punishment for being naked. Human life is not meant for becoming naked. That is according to Vedic civilization a great sin. You see. So their, their propensity they are increasing to become naked like our George... What's his name? Lennon, Lennon. So next time he is going to be tree, stand up. Otherwise wherefrom the trees come? They cannot explain. You become tree. That's all. Just like the Nalakūvara; they were taking bath naked without caring for Nārada. All right, you become naked for one hundred years.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Among the trees also, there are different grades of trees, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes, everywhere different grades. That is God's creation, variety.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So those trees which bear nice fruits and nice flowers, they are...
Prabhupāda: Yes, they are pious, pious trees. Otherwise why I am taking care of this leaf? Because the flower is there. And who cares for this leaf? Trampling down. As in the human society, there is first-class man, second-class man, third-class man, similarly in every field, first-class, animal also.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Cows.
Haṁsadūta: No.
Prabhupāda: Then? It is a common sense affair. The God has given you independence. If you do something wrong, against the will of God, then you must suffer. Therefore we find so many varieties of living entities. In different grades of life. That is due to misuse of independence.
Yogeśvara: Very popular today is the idea that if we are use, misusing our independence, it's because of our upbringing, our childhood, our society, something is wrong in our psychology. Not that it's the soul, not that it's a question of spiritual problem, but material one, that our parents were cruel or our society, our education was imperfect or something. But not spiritual problem.
Prabhupāda: So that is independence. Your parents were cruel. Therefore you have revolted against the parents. That is your independence. Why you revolted against parents? Because you have got the independence.
Devotee: What shall we say to someone, Prabhupāda...
Prabhupāda: Otherwise, if you are doing stereotyping, then in spite of your father being cruel, you would not declare independence and go away from home. Because you have got this independence, therefore you can understand that: "Why shall I obey this father? I go out." That is independence. They do not understand the meaning of independence.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, influence should be only Kṛṣṇa or God. Kṛṣṇa, when we speak of Kṛṣṇa, God, but they have no clear idea what is God. How does He speak, how does He act. Where does He live. What is His form. What is his color. Nobody knows. Ask any religious people, "Do you know about all these?" (tape too faint to hear) (indistinct) If they think about it at all. First of all, generally they think of something impersonal or void. The Buddhists they think God is zero. And others they think God has no form. So, two classes. The Hindus they think God has not particular form, (indistinct). And you can imagine any of them(?) That is Śaṅkara. The pañcopāsanā. But still Śaṅkara is very careful. He has given five particular forms—the Goddess Durgā, Lord Viṣṇu, Lord Siva, the sun. Therefore there are sections—the sun worshipers, the fire worshipers. Originally, (indistinct). That is Vedic culture. Their Vedic culture means many demigods. But the original God is accepted, Viṣṇu. And original to Viṣṇu is Kṛṣṇa. īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Kṛṣṇa also says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). "There is no superior form or authority than Me." That is confirmed by Lord Brahmā, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇah (Bs. 5.1). Kṛṣṇa is controller. There are different grades of controller but the supreme controller is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says mām ekam, "Unto Me, no one else." Now our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to convince people to give Him our attention, therefore we have published so many books only about Kṛṣṇa. On every page you'll find Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa. Either in Kṛṣṇa Book or in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, or in the Bhāgavatam or in Nectar of Devotion, Teachings of Lord Caitanya. The word(?) is Kṛṣṇa, that is simply explained in the (indistinct).
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No. The influence should be only Kṛṣṇa, or God. Kṛṣṇa, when we speak of "Kṛṣṇa"—God. But they have no clear idea what is God. How does He speak, how does He act, where does He live, what is His form, what is His qualities—nobody knows. Ask any religious people, "Do you know about all this, about God?" They do not know. What do you think, Atreya? Have they any clear conception of God? They imagine something. If they think of God at all... First of all, generally they think of impersonal or void. Just like the Buddhists. They think God is zero. And others, they think that God has no form. The two classes. The Hindus they think, "Yes, God has no particular form, but He has got many forms. And you can imagine any one of them." That is Śaṅkara, the pañcopāsana. But still, Śaṅkara is very careful. He has given five particular forms. The Goddess Durgā, Lord Viṣṇu, Lord Śiva, the sun, then... Therefore there are a section who are the sun worshiper, or fire worshiper. Original Iranians were like that. So that is Vedic culture. There... Vedic culture means there are many demigods, but the original God is accepted-Viṣṇu. And original to Viṣṇu is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). And Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "There is no more superior form or superior authority than Me." And that is confirmed by Lord Brahmā. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Īśvaraḥ means controller. There are different grades of controller, but the supreme controller is Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekam: "Unto Me alone." (to devotee:) What is that?
Prabhupāda: And above that, there is intelligent class of men, practicing some yoga. And spiritual platform means above that. First bodily concept, gross, then mental, then intellectual, then spiritual. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is on the spiritual platform, above body, mind and intelligence. But actually, we should come to that platform. Because we are spirit soul, we are neither this body nor this mind nor this intelligence. So one who is on the platform of spiritual consciousness, they have got everything, intelligence, proper use of mind, proper use of the body. Just like a millionaire, he has got all the lower grade possession. Ten rupees or hundred rupees or hundred pounds—he has got all, everything. Similarly, if we try to make an attempt to bring people on the platform of God consciousness, then he is possessing all other qualities: how to take care of the body, how to use the mind, how to use intelligence, everything. But it is not possible that everyone should become God conscious.
That is not possible. Because there are different grades. But at least one class of men should remain in the society as ideal, God conscious. Just like for our usual life we require lawyers, we require engineer, we require medical practitioner, we require so many, similarly, in the society there must be a class of men who are fully God conscious and ideal. That is necessary. Just like in your body you have got hands, legs, belly, but the head must be there. If your head is cut off, then, despite you have got hands, legs, and belly, it is useless. So this attempt, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is an attempt to keep at least one class of men, ideal devotee, ideal character. At least, people will see, "Oh, here is an ideal character." That is required. That is described in the Śrīmad-..., Bhagavad-gītā, how to create a first-class man. Just like we have got educational institution for giving instruction on law or medical science or engineering, similarly, there must be an institution to make first-class devotee, ideal man.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like Jaya-Vijaya. They committed offense. They did not allow the four Kumāras to enter. That was their fault. And the Kumāras became very sorry. Then they cursed him that "You are not fit to remain in this place." So we sometimes commit mistake. That is also misuse of independence. Or we are prone to fall down because we are small. Just like small fragment of fire. Although it is fire, it is prone to be extinguished. The big fire does not extinguish. So Kṛṣṇa is the big fire, and we are part and parcel, sparks, very small. So within the fire there are sparks, "Fut, Fut!" There are so many. But if the sparks fall down, then it is extinguished. It is like that. The fall down means material world, there are three different grades: the tamo-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, and sattva-guṇa. If the... Just like the spark falls down. If it falls down on dry grass, the grass becomes ablazed. So the fiery quality is still maintained, although it is fall down. On account of the atmosphere of the dry grass, it again makes another fire, and the fiery quality maintains. That is sattva-guṇa. And if the spark falls down on the green grass, then it is extinguished. And the dry grass, if, when the green grass becomes dry, there is chance of again coming to the blazing, but if the spark falls down in water, then it is very difficult. Similarly, the soul, when comes in the material world, there are three guṇas. So if he contacts with tamo-guṇa then he is in the most abominable condition. If it falls down with rajo-guṇa then there is little activity. Just like they are working. And if he falls down in the sattva-guṇa, then he at least keeps himself in the knowledge that "I am fire. I do not belong to this dull material." So therefore we have to bring him again to the sattva-guṇa, brahminical qualification, so that he can understand ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am spirit soul. I am not this matter." So then his spiritual activity begins. Therefore we are trying to bring him to the platform of sattva-guṇa, means to give up the business of rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa: no meat-eating, no illicit sex, no intoxication, no gambling, so many no's, to deny him the influence of material qualities.
Prabhupāda: Purport.
Satsvarūpa: "Every man everywhere is trying to obtain the greatest amount of sense enjoyment by various endeavors. Some of them are busy engaged in trade, industry, economic development, political supremacy, etc., and some of them are engaged in fruitive work to become happy in the next life by attaining higher planets. It is said that on the moon the inhabitants are fit for greater sense enjoyment by drinking soma-rasa, and the Pitṛloka is obtained by good charitable work. So there are various programs for sense enjoyment, either during this life or in the life after death. Some are trying to reach the moon or other planets by some mechanical arrangement, for they are very anxious to get into such planets without doing good work. But it is not to happen. By the law of the Supreme, different places are meant for different grades of living beings according to the work they might have performed. By good work only, as prescribed in the scriptures, one can obtain birth in a good family, opulence, good education and good bodily features. We see also that even in this life one obtains a good education or money or bodily beauty. Similarly, in our next birth we get such desirable positions only by good work. Otherwise, it would not so happen that two persons born in the same place at the same time are seen differently placed according to previous work. But all such material positions are not permanent. The positions in the topmost Brahmaloka and in the lowest Pātāla are also changeable according to our work.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is nature's way. Give them again chance to develop. From trees they become flies. That is the beginning of movement. Then from flies to birds, birds to beast, and beast to animal, er, human being. This is great chastisement. You cannot move even. Suffer torrents of rain, cyclone, scorching heat, pinching cold. Stand up for hundreds and thousands of years. Then, when the punishment is finished, then he becomes moving. If there is scorching heat he can move to some shelter. But he cannot move. They do not study all this science, why there are so many varieties of life, of different grades. Wherefrom they are coming?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The living entity, then, in the tree is actually conscious of its condition of life.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The living entity inside the tree is actually conscious of its condition of life.
Prabhupāda: Not advanced consciousness, but he is conscious. He feels. He feels.
Harikeśa: It shocked a lot of people when they made the test of bringing a scissor to a plant, and they put some electrodes on it and they found that the plant was reacting with fear.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That machine has been discovered by Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose. He discovered this wireless telegram, radio. But Marconi took from him, and British government helped him.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The British again.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Doug Warvick: And still be a businessman or...?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Why not? Just like Arjuna. He's a military man. That is also another business. He's military man. He knew how to fight. Similarly businessman's how to make trade. So this is different grades of livelihood. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not depend on this life or that life. Everyone can become.
Guru-kṛpā: They know Ugra-srava(?). He's a businessman here, that's all he does.
Brian Singer: Yeah, I understand.
Prabhupāda: Everyone can be devotee.... It is a question to understand that "I am not this body." That is beginning. So a businessman can try to understand, a lawyer can try to understand, or a philosopher can try to under.... Everyone can do that. The real point is, first of all try to understand that you are not this body. So where is the hampering, becoming a businessman or family man or this or that? There is no hampering. We are trained up from the very beginning of our life by our parents. We got the opportunity. And businessman, no businessman, it doesn't matter. Ahaituky apratihatā yayātmā suprasīdati. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo... (SB 1.2.6). Find out this verse. Ahaituky apratihatā. Kṛṣṇa conscious is unhampered by anything material. It does not mean that because you are a businessman you cannot be Kṛṣṇa conscious. No. That is not. You may be whatever you are, but you can become Kṛṣṇa conscious at the same time. (break) (devotees offer obeisances) (background talking) So it is not the superexcellency of English language. It is subject matter. Formerly they used to speak in Sanskrit. Therefore it is recorded in Sanskrit language. It can be transferred to any language. The thoughts are there. That is real point. Just like we are translating the thoughts in English, in Spanish, in Portuguese, in French. The real thing is the thought, not the language. But in Sanskrit language you'll find very, very high thoughts. That is because it is very old language.
Prabhupāda: Yes, śraddhā. That faith increase, and when it is increased so much that he fully understands, "By worshiping Kṛṣṇa, everything is done," that is first-class faith. Śraddhā-śabde viśvāsa kahe sudṛḍha niścaya (Cc. Madhya 22.62). If he becomes fixed up, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality," that is first-class, means fulfillment of faith. In the beginning it might be doubtful, neophyte. But when that is, that faith is fixed up, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality," that is the fulfillment of faith. Faith also there are different stages, improvement. Devotional service means different grades of faith. Today I am in one stage of faith, next day another stage, next day another stage, next day another stage. And when you come to the stage that vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), oh, that is final. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That takes time. And quickly also, if one is fortunate. If one is intelligent—"The śāstra says, 'Vāsudeva is everything,' so why not take Vāsudeva everything?"—then he gains the result immediately. And if he thinks, "All right, let me see for some time," so he may waste his time, but the point is the same. Point is the same, but he has not developed his faith to such extent. You have to wait. And intelligent person, he says, "Why shall I wait? Let me take finally vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). That business is finished." Sa mahātmā. Therefore it is said, sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That kind of staunch faith is not very easy. It is for the great personality. Immediately accepts. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Immediately accepts: "Yes." Then sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That is not very easily done. That means yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām (BG 7.28). He is completely free from all reaction of sinful life. Puṇya-karmaṇām—he is only engaged in pious activities. Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānām, te dvandva-moha... He has no more doubt. Dvandva-moha-nirmuktāḥ. He has no doubt. "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person." That's it. That's all. If you take by argument, reason, you may waste your time. But if you are intelligent, you can take it on the evidence of mahājano yena gataḥ, all the mahājanas.
Prabhupāda: That is māyā. Just like they surfer. What is that? They are in hell. But they have no sense that "What you are enjoying? It is hell." They are thinking they are enjoying. Is that enjoyment? It is actually hell. But he's thinking he's enjoying. That is called māyā. He's accepting something what is not. That is māyā. Hog eating stool, and he's thinking he's enjoying. This is called māyā. There are different grades of suffering, and still they are thinking they are enjoying.
Devotee (3): To really enjoy life you have to suffer a little bit...
Prabhupāda: He doesn't know what is enjoyment. That is the...
Devotee (2): So simply suffering is not a qualification for becoming God conscious then?
Prabhupāda: Ha?
Devotee (2): Simply to suffer is not qualification for becoming God conscious?
Prabhupāda: Why suffering? Where is suffering? What you are suffering? We are God conscious. We are suffering?
Devotee (2): No. No. Ah...
Hari-śauri: He means for approaching God consciousness.
Devotee (2): It is a prerequisite.
Prabhupāda: No, any intelligent man can become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That I have already explained, that unless one is very intelligent, he cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So it is open for everyone. But there are different grades of intelligence. In Europe, America, they are intelligent, but their intelligence is utilized for material purposes. And in India their intelligence is utilized for spiritual purpose. Therefore you find so many highly spiritual standard of life, books, literature. Just like Vyāsadeva. Vyāsadeva was also in householder life, but he was living in the forest, and see his contribution of literature. Nobody can dream even. So by literary contribution, one's intelligence is tested. All big, big men of the material world, scientists, philosophers, even technicians, they are recognized by their writings, by their contribution, not by their gigantic body.
Interviewer: Could you tell me a little bit about your educational system that you have helped to establish, particularly here in the States.
Rāmeśvara: Gurukula. She's asking if you could tell her about the system of education you have established in America.
Prabhupāda: That you can see, what education I have given to my disciples. The first education is that they must be free from all sinful activities. That is the first education. According to the Vedic instruction, a man is supposed to be educated, even from material point of view, a man is supposed to be educated when he sees every woman as mother.
Interviewer: As?
Prabhupāda: As mother.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He sees every woman as his mother.
Harikeśa: "Some are trying to reach the moon or other planets by some mechanical arrangement, for they are very anxious to get into such planets without doing good work. But it is not to happen. By the law of the Supreme, different places are meant for different grades of living beings according to the work they might have performed. By good work only, as prescribed in the scriptures, can one obtain birth in a good family, opulence, good education and good bodily features. We see also that even in this life one obtains a good education or money or bodily beauty. Similarly, in our next birth we get such desirable positions only by good work. Otherwise it would not so happen that two persons born in the same place at the same time are seen differently placed according to the previous work. But all such material positions are not permanent. The positions in the topmost Brahmaloka and in the lowest Pātāla are also changeable according to our own work. The philosophically inclined person must not be tempted by such changeable positions. He should try to get into the permanent life of bliss and knowledge where he will not be forced to come back again to the miserable material world, either in this or that planet. Miseries and mixed happiness are two features of material life, and they are obtained in Brahmaloka and in other lokas also. They are obtained in a life of the demigods and also in the life of the dogs and hogs. The miseries and mixed happiness of all living beings are only of different degree in quality, but no one is free from the miseries of birth, death, old age and disease. Similarly everyone has his destined happiness also. No one can get more or less of these things simply by personal endeavors. Even if they are obtained, they can be lost again. One should not, therefore, waste time with these flimsy things, but one should only endeavor to go back to Godhead. That should be the mission of everyone's life."
Prabhupāda: That is our position. We should not waste a single moment for so-called material things, happiness. Best save time and utilize it for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's all?
Jyotirmāyī: Yes, and just one more.
Prabhupāda: And he has called Padma-locana. Similarly, this harijana movement is a farce because they remain the Cāmāra and Bhangis, and still they are called harijana. The same thing. No locana, but padma-locana. Everyone has got right. You can become the most advanced devotee. There is no hindrance. But they must be trained up as harijana. Not that artificially you simply rubberstamp harijana. Therefore that movement is failure. We have no objection to make anyone... Kṛṣṇa says māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Pāpa-yoni, lower class. Janma-aiśvarya-śruta-śrī, these four things, to take birth in high class family, janma, aiśvarya, to become very rich, and śruta, to become very learned scholar, and śrī, beautiful, these four things are there whose background is pious life. Otherwise, not possible. Janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrī (SB 1.8.26). So those who are just the opposite—means not born in very high class family, not... They say "accident." No, it is not accident. According to śāstra, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1), there is superior examination. Yamarāja is there. Now, this man is now dead, this soul is now changing body. What kind of body he'll get next? That is judged by the superior authority. Just like in the office a person is promoted. So his record is examined, how he has worked honestly to the interest of the establishment. All this consideration. Then he's given increment of salary or promotion to higher post. This is common sense. So it is not accident. A man is born from the very beginning, a rich man's son. That does not mean that it is accident. Daiva-netreṇa. By a superior arrangement he is given the chance to take birth in a aristocratic family or rich family or educated family or in a beautiful family. There is... But this is, so far it is concerned, it is body, and our movement, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is not of the body. Body is superfluous. It is spiritual movement. Kṛṣṇa therefore begins, asmin dehe, dehī. This body is external. Just like dress. We are having this dress. I am not this dress. I am within the dress. Similarly, the spirit soul is within this body, and spiritual movement means about that spirit soul. Not of this body. So that spirit soul is completely different from this body and... Just like a gentleman is gentleman. One may have a different type of dress. Not that everyone is expected of the same dress. But within the dress, a gentleman is gentleman. Similarly, although there are so many varieties of bodies, within the body the soul is pure part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. So the spiritual movement means to take up the spirit soul within the body and to elevate him from the conditioned life. That is spiritual movement. He has been put into condition. So that action can be taken without any hindrances. Without any impediment. Ahaituky apratihatā. That verse I was speaking yesterday, that without any cause, without any impediments, the soul can be raised by the process. Kṛṣṇa says māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Never mind one is born in low class family, poor, ugly, uneducated family. It doesn't matter. But he can be raised. What is the process? Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya. "One has to take shelter of Me." That is Kṛṣṇa conscious movement. We are giving equal chance everyone. It doesn't matter what he is. Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. Pāpa-yoni means low class, poor, uneducated, ugly, no education. That is pāpa-yoni. So they can be raised. Kṛṣṇa says. How? Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya. If he is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore it is the topmost welfare activities in the human society. Anyone can be raised. There are different grades of life all over the world. Some are black, some are white, some are ugly, some are poor.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Haridāsa Ṭhākura, "Yes, I knew all these things. I would have gone long ago, but you are innocent. Your business is this. You came. So I wanted to try to do some good to you. So better you have come to your senses. Now you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. I am leaving." So, dhīra. This material world means so long we'll have a pinch of material desire, we'll have to take birth. Kṛṣṇa will give us full facility to satisfy our senses in various ways. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). Full facilities. "Enjoy. But if you want my advice, then sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ... (BG 18.66)." That is Kṛṣṇa's advice. And that, Kṛṣṇa is ready to give all facilities for material enjoyment in different grades of life. Beginning from Brahmā down to the ant, everyone is engaged in this sense gratification. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Either you become a Brahmā or you become Indra or Candra or human being or cat or dog or ant or insect—the same business: āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam, punaḥ punaḥ, again and again, the same business. So those who are engaged in the same business, so that is, Ṛṣabhadeva said, "It is not good. What is the use of same business again and again. You are not disgusted?" To repeat the birth is very good business? To enter into the womb of some mother and remain there for some time in so packed up condition and suffering, to forget. But acts in such a way that he'll have to take birth again. Na sādhu manye. Ṛṣabhadeva (says), "This is not good business." "Then what is wrong?" Just like some student in Hawaii University, "What is wrong if I become a dog?" This is education, university. They do not understand what is the wrong in this business of repetition of birth and death. So what is education? They cannot understand even that what is the suffering in birth and death. And repetition again and again and again, the same business, for āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam, eating, sleeping, sex, and protection. He cannot understand. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carva... Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). Through external energy they are trying to be happy.
Prabhupāda: Hm. So it is there in the dictionary, it is in the Vedas, and practically proved. In the Vedas confirmed, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). The Supreme Being is the chief living being. There are so many living beings, but He is the original living being. He is original, eternal substance, and the living beings, the are also eternal, same quality, but He is the Supreme. How He is Supreme? Because He maintains these eternal living beings, and the other living beings, they are maintained by Him. Just like in a family the father is the chief man and he maintains the family, similarly God is the Supreme Being. He maintains all other living beings. Anantyāya. There is no limit. Jīva-bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ sa anantyāya kalpate (CC Madhya 19.140). The living beings are... They cannot be counted. At night we see. A small insect, millions of, come. Millions. Similarly everywhere you'll go, you'll find full of living..., jana-kīrṇa, different grades. They're all maintained by God. Therefore He's called chief living being. Quality, the same. He's living being; we are living being. Whatever propensities He has got, we have got. But we are not independent. We are dependent on Him. This position has to be clearly understood. Then we have to surrender to Him to fulfill our desires, and that is bhakti-mārga. Is that clear? Same thing write. There is no other way.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That makes sense.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Otherwise everything falls apart.
Prabhupāda: Just like the finger is my part and parcel of the body. It must work according to my desire. Then it is healthy. Otherwise diseased. I am moving this. It is in healthy condition. If it cannot move by some cause, then it is diseased. So when we are working under the direction of Kṛṣṇa, that is our healthy stage. Otherwise diseased. I am... I am correct?
| Page Title: | Different grades (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 15 of May, 2013 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=18, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 18 |