Prabhupāda: What is the thesis of life?
Harikeśa: According to who?
Prabhupāda: Anyone.
Harikeśa: Anyone. Some people say that life is to be enjoyed. Life is simply there for enjoyment.
Prabhupāda: So the answer is that whether you are actually enjoying life.
Harikeśa: Well, right now I'm not actually enjoying life, so...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Harikeśa: ...I have to find out...
Prabhupāda: Then the aim is to enjoy life.
Harikeśa: Yes. So I have to find out the means to enjoy, and to negate the pain and to make the pleasure more.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's very nice proposal, but whether, at the present moment, or in the history, whether a man is enjoying life or suffering?
Harikeśa: Well, men, men have actually never really enjoyed because they never understood enough about themselves. They were never able to overcome their difficulties due to ignorance.
Prabhupāda: So then the next question will be that how to become enjoyable, or how to enjoy? The next question is.... There may be different thesis. So our thesis is that we are trying to enjoy life by covering ourself. The crude example.... Just like sometimes before, the.... It may be nowadays also current. The contraceptive method was by using one cover. Do you know that?
Harikeśa: Hmh.
Prabhupāda: What is called?
Harikeśa: Prophylactic.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Harikeśa: A prophylactic.
Prabhupāda: Not prophylactic. Technical name. So, but that was not enjoyable. So then they discovered pills. So covered enjoyment is not enjoyment. It is not complete enjoyment. The same.... The real enjoyment in this material world is sex. Now if we want to enjoy sex, covered with coats and pants, is that enjoyment is pleasing?
Harikeśa: No.
Prabhupāda: Therefore actually when they want to enjoy sex in the private room, they become naked. So they are seeking enjoyment with this material body, but they are not able to enjoy on account of being covered. This is the thesis.
Harikeśa: Hmmm. This is the Kṛṣṇa conscious thesis.
Prabhupāda: Well, why do you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness immediately? From practical point of view. So why they want to enjoy sex life being naked? That means covered enjoyment is not enjoyment. It is hampered enjoyment. Therefore we living entities, or, say, human beings, we want enjoyment. That's all right. But we are not able to enjoy fully because we are covered by something. This is the thesis. This is the thesis. But these rascals, or the ignorant persons, they do not know that "I am covered by something. Therefore my enjoyment is not complete." This is the thesis. So you answer this. Our enjoyment is not being completed on account of being covered by this material body. This is the thesis.
Harikeśa: So the antithesis would be there is no...
Prabhupāda: The antithesis will be how to become uncovered. That is antithesis. And the synthesis will be that because we are unable to uncover immediately, therefore must be some synthesis.
Harikeśa: Oh, I never thought of it that way. That's...
Prabhupāda: This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The synthesis of the covering and the thesis of the soul should be synthesized by arrangement. That we are teaching.
Harikeśa: Dialectical spiritualism.
Prabhupāda: Ye.... Not dia.... Dialectical means keep spiritualism or materialism. It is dialectic. Two sides there are, the material and the spiritual. These ignorant rascals, cats—and dogslike men, they have no information of the thing which is covered. They're simply dealing with the covering. Therefore their knowledge is imperfect, and they're not successful by so many theses. They do not know the real problem. Who is enjoyer? That they do not know. That enjoyer is covered. And they are talking on the cover. That.... In Bengal, it is a proverb, said, that: Sobraniye tanatan.(?) In the.... I think I was talking on this. In the coconut. The coconut sweet pulp and water is within. And they are struggling with the fibers above the coconut. Coconut.... They have got some information coconut is enjoyable, but where is the enjoyable article is there, that they do not know. They have simply information this body, and the coconut's body is covered with fibers. And they are fighting with the fibers. None of these so-called capitalists or, what is called, Communists, they do not know where is the real substance is. Superficially, they are fighting on the platform of fiber covering. That's all. Sobraniye tanatan,(?) this Bengali word exactly. They're fighting just like dogs. Actually they do not know how to become happy, but one dog is barking upon another dog, and they're fighting, attacking, barking-useless. The dogs and cats, they do not know what is the value of life, and they fight on the covering, same fiber, fight. But here is a chance, human being. Therefore dialectic. Dialectic materialism. You should be materialist; you should not condemn anything, both the inside and outside. The inside pulp of coconut requires the covering outside. Otherwise, it will be spoiled. Crude example. But the real substance is inside, not outside. But these rascals, they have no information of the inside substance. They think that "Here is coconut. Let us try to find out happiness." And they are simply struggling to adjust the fibers. Therefore they have been described as mūḍhaḥ, rascals. Hmmm? What do you think, Haṁsadūta?
Haṁsadūta: Very perfect.
Harikeśa: Completely smashed all the opposition. No more arguments.
Prabhupāda: So you have to do this, to fight all these rascals.