Prabhupāda: There are two classes of men. Men means living entities. Either in this planet or any other planet. But in this planet the demons, number of demons, are great, not in other planets. So there are two classes of men. One class is called demon, and other classes are god, or demigod. And what is the difference between them? Viṣṇu-bhaktaḥ bhaved daivaḥ. The godly persons, who are devoted to the Lord, they are called demigods. And asuras tad-viparyayaḥ. Asura means demons. They are just opposite number. They are very much against anything God. They want simply, cheaply to become God. That is their demonic principle. So where, there was fight. And the demons are always very much inimical to the gods. There are many men... You have got experience, some of you, that if you speak something about God, they become very angry: "What nonsense, God? I am God. Everyone is God. What special qualification of God?" This is demonic principle.
Devote (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"devote"
|"devoted"
|"devotedly"
|"devotes"
|"devoting"
|"devout"
|"devoutedly"
|"devoutly"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: I was born and educated in Calcutta. Calcutta is my home place. I was born in 1896, and I was my father's pet child, so my education began a little late, and still, I was educated in higher secondary, high school for eight years. In primary school four years, higher secondary school, eight years, in college, four years. Then I joined Gandhi's movement, national movement. But by good chance I met my Guru Mahārāja, my spiritual master, in 1922. And since then, I was attracted in this line, and gradually I gave up my household life. I was married in 1918 when I was still a third year student. And so I got my children. I was doing business. Then I retired from my family life in 1954. For four years I was alone, without any family. Then I took regularly renounced order of life in 1959. Then I devoted myself in writing books. My first publication came out in 1962, and when there were three books, then I started for your country in 1965 and I reached here in September, 1965. Since then, I am trying to preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness in America, Canada, in European countries. And gradually the centers are developing. The disciples are also increasing. Let me see what is going to be done.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Kīrtanānanda: Time for what?
Prabhupāda: Everyone has to make his own routine work, and for chanting and reading and Bhagavad-gītā he requires, say, two to three hours. So we have got twenty-four hours at our disposal. Out of that, six hours or seven hours for sleeping. So still you have got seventeen hours. And three hours devote for chanting and reading. Still you have got fourteen hours.
Kīrtanānanda: But we devote at least five hours to ārati and kīrtana.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Satyabhāmā: Another hour and a half or two hours to prasādam.
Śyāma: Eating?
Satyabhāmā: Yes. To eating prasādam.
Prabhupāda: Two hours for eating?
Paramānanda: Eating and taking rest.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Haṁsadūta: "It will create a national problem of a magnitude the like of which he has not seen before. In fact, Western society is in for a great jolt. A. Karim Saikh.(?)" Then two more letters.
Prabhupāda: But the old woman's crying.
Haṁsadūta: Do you want to hear the next letter? This is the second letter. "I do not see why you devoted two full pages to the article on 'Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa,' November 8th. Wearing a plain white sari, applying sandal paste on the forehead and wearing nose-rings do not transform one. Churning milk gopī fashion is no way to attain spiritual bliss. The statements made by the devotees of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement reflect an attitude of escapism."
Prabhupāda: Hm. Anyway, we are getting publicity.
Guest (4): Mahārāja, could you employ me in some...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, employ, I can employ in any way. But there is no payment.
Guest (4): I am M.A. in English, M.A. in Hindi. I am trying to devote myself to this work...
Prabhupāda: So please come.
Guest (4): But for my family liabilities...
Prabhupāda: What amount you want for your family, minimum?
Guest (4): Five hundred a month.
Prabhupāda: That is not possible. Yes, you require five hundred. I know that. That is not much. To maintain a family nowadays five hundred rupees is not much but where is the money? How can I pay you?
Guest (4): I would be a very good asset to your publications work.
Prabhupāda: That I know. You are qualified, educated boy. You can do it. But one thing I can do, that you can live with your family just like they are living. That I can arrange. And whatever food we can provide you have to accept. We can... We can arrange for the education of your children also, everything. But we cannot pay anything. That is not possible. We can take charge of the husband and wife. We can take charge of your children. But it is not possible to pay. And besides that, when there is question of payment the service is not good because the payment means he is serving the money. He is not serving the cause.
Prabhupāda: What is that? Let me...
Yamunā: It says, "All inhabitants of Vrajabhūmi, Vṛndāvana, are very dear to Kṛṣṇa. A devotee in attachment selects one of the inhabitants and follows in his footsteps in order to be successful."
Prabhupāda: Devotee... Devoted to the Vṛndāvana inhabitants. You don't directly think of yourself that "I shall see Kṛṣṇa as my son."
Yamunā: No.
Prabhupāda: No.
Yamunā: No.
Prabhupāda: That is Māyāvāda.
Yamunā: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You have to follow the footsteps of Yasoda Ma.
Yamunā: Yes. You've told me that before.
Prabhupāda: Then it will be success.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, no, not 15, 16 years.
Interviewer: Five, six years ago. I beg your pardon. To this part of the world, you did not come to a part of the world where religion was lacking as such, you know. In the United States of America we have many religions, and I think people in this country like to believe, in great majority, that they are religious people, people who believe in God, who devote themselves to some form of religious expression. And I wonder what your thinking was. What do you think that you could add to the already living religious expression in this country by coming here and adding your own philosophy to it?
Prabhupāda: Yes. When I first came to your country I was guest of an Indian friend at Butler.
Interviewer: In Pennsylvania.
Prabhupāda: Pennsylvania. Yes. So although it was a small county, I was very much engladdened there were so many churches.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Interviewer: ...to this part of the world, you did not come to a part of the world where religion was lacking as such. In the United States of America we have many religions, and I think people in this country like to believe in great majority that they are religious people, people who believe in God, you know, who devote themselves to some form of religious expression. And I wonder what your thinking was. What do you think that you could add to the already living religious expression in this country by coming here and adding your own philosophy to it?
Prabhupāda: When I first came to your country, I was guest of an Indian friend at Butler.
Interviewer: In Pennsylvania?
Prabhupāda: Pennsylvania. So although it was a small county, I was very much engladdened there were so many churches.
Prabhupāda: They should be serious.
Woman Interviewer: I mean if someone in all seriousness wishes to find the spiritual life and happens to finish up with the wrong guru, I mean should they beware?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But... When ordinary education, to take ordinary education one has to devote so much time, labor, and understand, and if one is going to take spiritual life they must be serious. And how is that, they think that simply by some wonderful mantra within six months they become God? Why they want like that? That is... That means they want to be cheated.
Woman Interviewer: And how would one tell that one had a genuine guru because one would be told to give up certain parts of...?
Prabhupāda: That of course depends on the person who is really anxious for guru. Just like when you go to the market to purchase some thing, you test it whether it is genuine or not. Similarly, you have to test who is genuine.
Revatīnandana: To live in this temple you have to take up fully our principles and take up our activities of preaching work and like that. But to practice these things outside, even in one's own religion, without changing the basis of his belief, he can simply devote himself to God in these ways. And if one is young and not so attached, he can take it up fully. He can take it up in part, or he can take it up... And religious system, there are names of God. You simply chant it.
Guest (2): (indistinct) an associate member if you like.
Sister Mary: I've only just (indistinct) asking about it.
Revatīnandana: Everyone is a member...
Guest (2): If you're a member, you have to practice the whole thing obviously. (break)
Revatīnandana: Everyone is a member of this movement. But some people have forgotten. Our movement is to remind them. Every living being is by nature a servant of God. Now people are forgetting. We want them to remember. We don't care for some difference of technique in worship. We want people to take up the business of chanting the names of God.
Prabhupāda: Just as in the same family some of the sons have forgotten father and some of them remember, but both of them member of the same family. Because he has forgotten his father does not mean that he is not son. He still remains. So actually, everyone is a member of God's family. That is our vision. Not only human being, but animals also. We therefore consider animals also brothers. We don't support animal killing.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Martin: But... How can I know?
Prabhupāda: You can know directly that "He is doing better than me." What is the difficulty? I can see... Just like all my disciples, they are following me. Why? Because they understand that "Our spiritual master explains about God better than us." Therefore they are surrendering. I am not bribing them. They are not fools. They have got very nice brain to act. So they accept me as the spiritual master brain because they understand it that "He can explain about God better than me." Where is the difficulty? These, all my disciples, surrenders unto me because they have found in me a better brain in explaining what is God. Direct perception. There is no question of indirect understanding. It is direct understanding. And the Vedas also advises that "Go to a better man," śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12), "one who heard better and wise from the Vedic knowledge, and brahma, as a result of it he has become fully devoted to Kṛṣṇa," brahma-niṣṭham. These are the qualifications of spiritual master. His knowledge is perfect according to the Vedic injunction, and by having that knowledge he has become a perfect devotee of the Lord. These two things are to be seen. Then he is a spiritual master.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Jayatīrtha: She is a 40-years-old lady, her name is Lucille. She is very much actually convinced of our philosophy and is devoted to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but the only thing is, because she comes conditioned from a previous life, can't give up, has a very hard time giving up smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee. She's been trying for about nine months to give up these things, (indistinct) but she can't do it. Still she is desirous of initiation. So I don't know what to (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: No. You must at least promise that he gives (break) And if we promise that (indistinct). But after initiation if she smokes, that's not good.
Jayatīrtha: Yes. (indistinct)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: (indistinct)
Jayatīrtha: So if someone is sincere, we want them to follow devotional principles. (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: No. If you have the determination, Kṛṣṇa will help. If she is determined that "Even if I die, I shall not smoke," then Kṛṣṇa will help her. And if she thinks, "So I'll not do it. If Kṛṣṇa likes, He will help me." (indistinct) Just like (indistinct). He has prepared some nice foodstuff. So he says, "If Kṛṣṇa comes, I will give Him; otherwise I shall eat." (laughter) "And if Kṛṣṇa is very hungry, He will come." So this alternative proposal is not accepted. "If Kṛṣṇa comes, I will offer Him this. Otherwise I shall eat."
Śyāmasundara: ...and it would revitalize the spiritual life of India from this point, and then the whole world would come to Vṛndāvana.
Prabhupāda: So, now next thing, what to do?
Śyāmasundara: I was thinking perhaps I would like to devote a lot of time to raising funds for such a project—in the United States, England.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Śyāmasundara: Manage.
Prabhupāda: Manage? There's no scarcity of funds.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. If we built the most magnificent temple and center here, which was full of spiritual life, day and night hundreds of devotees would be there having kīrtana, and all the devotees of Vṛndāvana would come. They're simply astounded by our kīrtana when they come to our house.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi)
Śyāmasundara: What's this? This is another temple? Imlitala?
Devotee(2): Imlitala.
Śyāmasundara: Oh, this is not the entrance?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Brahmānanda: Gāndhārī, wife of Dhṛtarāṣṭra.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So later on such devoted wife was lacking. So the system was, some cases, they were forced to die. So these things have been elaborately explained in the, that book, and Britishers stopped it. So the Indians were uncivilized. Britishers made them civilized. Everything was misinterpreted. Yes.
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they do not know the inner meaning...
Prabhupāda: No, inner meaning is there. But they would not explain that. Simply the dark side, they would explain. And prove that the Indian civilization was very crude and primitive. It has no enlightenment. That was British propaganda. Even during national movement, they bribed one American woman, and she wrote a book: "Mother India." Do you know that?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, I, no...
Prabhupāda: Ah. "Mother India." She described all the blackmailing of Indian social activities, and Gandhi remarked it: "Drain Inspector's report."
Revatīnandana: Another related question that also arose... These come in Bhāgavata class with the devotees because they think about the questions and sometimes they come up with nice ones. When Kṛṣṇa is incarnating in His plenary incarnations like Varāha, Nṛsiṁha, like that...
Prabhupāda: That is in this material world.
Revatīnandana: Yes. And sometimes devotees become devoted to those forms. Are there corresponding planets in Vaikuṇṭha for those forms of incarnation? Is there a planet of Nṛsiṁha or Nṛsiṁha-loka in the Vaikuṇṭha sphere?
Prabhupāda: So far (I) know, those planets are here within this material world.
Revatīnandana: Wherever He is appearing.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Even Rāmacandra's. So far I have...
Revatīnandana: On all the Vaikuṇṭhas, Kṛṣṇa is in His catur-bhuja, four-armed form?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Revatīnandana: But those devotees will eventually go there. Those kind of devotees like devotees of Sītā-Rāma, they will also attain the spiritual sky in their various positions.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is another thing.
Pradyumna: Teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktā...?
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-... That is Tenth Chapter.
Pradyumna:
- teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ
- bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam
- dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ taṁ
- yena mām upayānti te
- (BG 10.10)
"To those who are constantly devoted and who worship Me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come to Me."
Prabhupāda: So if he gets understanding from God, how there can be any defect? If he's not getting direct understanding from God, that means he's still imperfect.
Mālatī: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Pradyumna: Need some table.
Devotee: I have some kind of table.
Śyāmasundara: Can we use this table?
Devotee: I have some... (Sounds of setting up prasādam?)
Prabhupāda: Just like...
Lord Brockway: Thank you very much.
Mālatī: Thank you for waiting. I'm sorry it's a little late.
Prabhupāda: This is... These European and American girls, they have learned to prepare... (some background noise) Oh, you have prepared for me? No, I don't want any more.
David Lawrence: You feel that strongly.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. That is real life. Real life means you have to minimize your bodily activities so that you can save time and devote for spiritual understanding. That is real life. And the present civilization based on bodily concept of life is animal life. It is not civilized life. Civilized life means athāto brahma jijñāsā. When one is advanced so much so that he inquires about the spirit soul. But there is no such inquiry. Like the cats and dogs, they cannot inquire what is spirit soul. So Vedic life means to become free as much as possible from the bodily disturbances. Therefore, the first education is to become brahmacārī, celibacy. You see? Now, at the present moment, they are trying to make the abortion as law. But these rascals cannot check their sex life. You see? Their philosophy is that you shall go on with sex life unrestrictedly and when there is pregnancy, kill the child.
Prabhupāda: ...it will be difficult for ordinary persons. Still, as far as possible, I have tried to explain for understanding of the ordinary people. By general reading, it is not difficult.
David Lawrence:. This is the sort of problem one comes across, whether in fact... You see, having grown up in what was really a very liberal, critical attitude...
Prabhupāda: Therefore, this portion of Kṛṣṇa's life is depicted on the Tenth Canto. Nine Cantos are devoted to understand Kṛṣṇa. So without understanding Kṛṣṇa if one tries to read the life and pastimes of Kṛṣṇa, it may be misleading.
David Lawrence: Yes, yes. I think somewhere it says...
Prabhupāda: Therefore Bhāgavata begins, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), what is the original source of creation. Not abruptly Kṛṣṇa. Then after developing all such knowledge one can understand what is Kṛṣṇa. But in the spiritual world there are activities like that. The material world is only perverted reflection of these activities of the spiritual world. Perverted reflections. It is reflection, but perverted. Therefore, it is difficult. Everything is there. Basic principle that Kṛṣṇa loved the gopīs... Gopīs were young girls, Kṛṣṇa was young boy, But the same love between young boy and girl here is lust. Therefore, it is perverted. The reflection is there, but it is not love, it is lust.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They do not know. Even big, big professors. I talked with Professor Kotofsky in Moscow. He said, "Swamiji, after annihilation of this body, there is nothing."
Guest (2): Well, that has brought this disaster and is causing more and more trouble, I think. More and more in practice of medicine, if we look into the practice of medicine, I think, we are more pressed with the problem of mental illness. I should say in the region of thirty percent of our time is devoted for people suffering from mental anxiety, which we call "anxiety state" and partly depression. I think most of the time, I surmise... Part of the problem is not that they are not well-fed, it is not that they are not well-dressed. Part of the problem is to accept as they are and to think of something which is present, I mean they could believe that there is something beyond this world, and if they can accept that, probably they will be better off and they will accept their present inconveniences more easily and will not be depressed.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (2): And that is the present problem.
Prabhupāda: That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ. Sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ
- mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya
- śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ
- āgamāpāyino 'nityās
- tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata
- (BG 2.14)
If one is engaged in his cultivation of spiritual life, then he should tolerate all these bodily pains and pleasure. Because they come and go. Just like you are medical man, you treat, some patient. Suppose he's attacked with fever. Everyone knows that fever has come; after some time, it will go away. So the one who is cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he's not very much disturbed with fever. He knows that it has come, it will go automatically. If we fast for few days. There is a Bengali proverb, jvaranpar ketanadali palab...(?) If you receive one unwanted guest and fever, you don't give him eat. Then it will go away. Unwanted guest, if you do not give him food, he'll go away.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Next verse.
Pradyumna:
- yo yo yāṁ yāṁ tanuṁ bhaktaḥ
- śraddhayārcitum icchati
- tasya tasyācalāṁ śraddhāṁ
- tām eva vidadhāmy aham
"I am in everyone's heart as the Supersoul. As soon as one desires to worship the demigods, I make his faith steady so that he can devote himself to some particular deity."
Prabhupāda: Hm. Then next.
Pradyumna:
- sa tayā śraddhayā yuktas
- tasyārādhanam īhate
- labhate ca tataḥ kāmān
- mayaiva vihitān hi tān
Prabhupāda: That also kāmān. Whatever benediction they get, that is sanctioned by Kṛṣṇa. They cannot give it independently. You can keep it here. These six volumes are already published.
Ambassador: Oh, I see, Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: But, uh, no, this is Bhāgavatam.
Ambassador: Śrī Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: Similar, another fifty-four volumes is to be published.
Ambassador: Oh, it's a tremendous undertaking.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes.
Prabhupāda: There are eight kinds of Deity. Picture is also Deity. Even the thinking of Kṛṣṇa within the mind, that is also Deity. But we are not so expert that within the mind we can worship the Deity. Just like yesterday I gave you the example, the brāhmaṇa. He was worshiping Deity within the mind. There was no temple, no Deity. But within the mind, everything he was doing. And he got salvation. So that depends on particular person, how to worship Deity. So far we are gross men. So we must have Deity worship. Otherwise you can worship Deity anywhere, sit down and think, just like this brāhmaṇa was thinking. Because Kṛṣṇa is available in any way, because He is everything. But the method must be there. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano (BG 7.4). So mind is also another material thing. So if you think of Kṛṣṇa's form within the body, mind, it is as good as you worship the Deity in the temples made of brass or wood or stone. Because both of them are Kṛṣṇa's energies. So whatever possible, He can accept. And that is Kṛṣṇa. Because Kṛṣṇa's energy. Therefore the energy is not different from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa can accept your service in any of these material. So-called material. Actually there is no material things. Material things means the desire for sense gratification. That is material. Ātmendriya-prīti-vāñchā—tāre bali 'kām (CC Adi 4.165).' That is material. Kṛṣṇendriya-prīti-icchā dhare 'prema' nāma. That is spiritual. So that picture, that must be kept in a nice altar, regularly ārati and everything should go on. (pause) (break) mūḍha's position. Vyāsadeva has given Kṛṣṇa's pastimes in the Tenth Canto of Bhāgavata. Nine canto are devoted for understanding Kṛṣṇa, beginning from janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The Supreme, what is Para-brahman? Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). This is beginning. That Kṛṣṇa is personally explaining Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Guest: Hm.
Prabhupāda: She is young girl.
Guest: She is very devoted.
Prabhupāda: She has the advanced devotion. Therefore.... She is a young girl, she was not ashamed, so immediately she began to dance.
Guest: She has always been like that.
Prabhupāda: This is automatic, so this is not an artificial thing.
Guest: No, no she feels it. That is her mission.
Prabhupāda: No, I was very surprised how this nice girl.... Other girls they are also dancing. So this dancing, I was explaining to him that this dancing was not artificial.
Guest: It is from heart.
Prabhupāda: Ecstatic.
Guest: Ecstatic, yes. Otherwise nobody will get up at 3:30 in the morning.
Prabhupāda: Locovāca(?). Doesn't care that here is my mother, here is my father, here is my.... No. Effortless(?).
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Dr. Patel: Because Kṛṣṇa's representative.
Prabhupāda: He is the root. Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). The root, if you water the root, then sarva-bhūta hite ratāḥ, the water will go to the branches, to the twigs, to the leaves, to the flowers. He is sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ. They do not know the way how to become sarva-bhūta-hite. And because... Just see the example. I am not becoming proud, but because I have got little taste for it, therefore I am preaching all over the world. I don't say I am perfect. I have got little taste of kṛṣṇa-bhakti. So I have no distinction that "This is Indian. This is American. This is African." Everyone, I am giving this hari-nāma. This is sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ, no distinction. We are trying to give protection the the cows, to animals, to the trees. This is sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ. Unless one is... Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad... If one is not devoted to Kṛṣṇa, he cannot become sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ. Kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām (BG 12.5). Simply they will suffer, that's all.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: This about propaganda and collecting the signatures in the lakhs will not only take a lot of energy of the devotees, but it will take more time also. It is, in the city of Bombay, it is not practicable. Because people are very busy, and around the clock everybody is counting every second which he spends and more so, it's difficult for people to devote time towards a sat-saṅga or to sign the letter that they had no objection and on the contrary, the action of the police commissioner is condemnable, undesirable. That will take a lot of time. And I think by writing them a letter, by of our reconsidering, we lose nothing.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Guest: By writing them a petition.
Prabhupāda: But if... It has no effect.
Guest: I don't say there is no effect. They can always reopen the case and reconsider because the two grounds there which they have mentioned. Number one, it is a nuisance. It is to be proved it's a nuisance. And always a practice...
Prabhupāda: Then, then you have to go, public should go. Those who are interested Hindus and Vaiṣṇavas, they should go to the court and prove in the court that it is not nuisance, essential.
Indian man: Forty temples, I see.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In England we have got about five. And France, in German, we have got four.
Indian man: In Germany also.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Germany, Sweden, Rome, and Australia.
Indian man: They are also... They are very devoted to our creed, our religion?
Prabhupāda: Yes, we are preaching Bhagavad-gītā. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śa... (BG 18.66). That is the only religion.
Indian man: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Everything is not religion. It is cheating. Only religion is to surrender to the Lord. That is religion. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ.
Indian man: I am a Vaiṣṇavite, you see. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, ahaṁ tvāṁ pāpebhyo... (BG 18.66).
Prabhupāda: That is, religion. That is religion. Mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ.
Prabhupāda: What is that science of the soul?
Guest: Well, just like what you have been saying, purifying the senses and becoming in consciousness through a master, to know a way of purification by not..., living(?) properly and thinking properly.
Prabhupāda: The idea is purify the senses.
Guest: And meditation, meditation. Being devoted, your life will be changed. The master teaches these things, purification. He has written also some books. When he came to America in 1967, I met him personally. And he initiated a group of people. And I was also aiming at that, being a vegetarian a few years prior to that. He accepted me and gave me initiation with the group. And, of course, he went back in about... He stayed in the States about twelve days then he came in Europe. Then he went back. I haven't seen him ever since. I have a picture of him. I carry a picture of him, the leader of, in our movement. (indistinct) meditating on the master. And I try to live up to it, to the teachings. Would you like to see that picture?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, I have seen this gentleman. In Delhi I have seen him.
Guest: In New Delhi. And there are the five names of meditation on the back.
Yogeśvara: But what do we advise such women?
Prabhupāda: Whatever they, others women, they may take lesson from them that, "If these woman are suffering or these men are suffering, why should we marry?" There is a Bengali proverb, dekhe sekhe and tekhe sekhe (?). One who is intelligent, he can see what is happening, he becomes cautious. And one, when actually experienced, then he becomes cautious. Less intelligent. So if it is not good, why you are marrying? Why you are induced by sex life? Stop it by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you devote yourself, the whole life, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness you will not be agitated by any sex life. And that is yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-pādāravinde. If one is actually advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he will deride, "Huh! Nonsense! What is this?" That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, advancement. The only remedy, prime remedy for all solution, is Kṛṣṇa conscious. That we have to say. So answers are all right or not?
Yogeśvara: No, very nice. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Our life is so nice. We are satisfied with eating Kṛṣṇa prasādam and chant whole day and night Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. What is the use of this industry and trade. And transport and politics. There is no need. Anartha. It is called anartha, unwanted things.
C. Hennis: The International Labor Organization has as one of its major aims to promote social justice, and that means that every class of worker, if you like to accept the four categories that you mentioned—the intellectual, the productive, the protective, and the laboring classes-should each have their proper place in society, should each have a full measure of human dignity, and should each have a proper share in the rewards for labor, both clearly material rewards and honors and dignity and leisure and time for, free time for meditation and so on. In the International Labor Organization, we are not like UNESCO devoted to the more philosophical and cultural and educational aspects for the intelligentsia, but I would draw your attention to the fact that the UNESCO is very much concerned with looking after the head part of society.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is my request to you.
C. Hennis: Well, I think that the International Labor Organization is devoted to the reduction of inequalities between the different classes of men with a view to getting them all a better share of the good things of life, and by that, they may begin to reach a greater degree of human happiness, as they understand it, as the people themselves understand it. It may be that they don't understand it well.
Prabhupāda: No. Nature's way is not better share, but equal share. Just like when you take foodstuff, put it in the stomach, and when it is easily digested and transformed into different secretion and comes to the heart and becomes blood, there is equal distribution. Not that because brain is first-class, therefore the blood transformation to the brain should go more. No. Then it will be blood pressure, high blood pressure. This is nature's way, that... But when the energy goes to the brain, it acts differently. When the energy goes to the hands, it acts differently. The electricity energy is the same, but sometimes by working on the dictaphone, sometimes on the microphone, sometimes in electric heater, sometimes in refrigerator... The different apparatuses are there, but the energy is the same, equal. In that sense, the communistic idea that whatever energy is there, whatever resources are there, they should be equally distributed, that is nature's way. From the body we can understand that when the foodstuff turns into secretion, it goes to the heart and becomes blood. The blood is transfused through different veins to different parts of the body, and you will find everybody is satisfied.
Yogeśvara: Well, they say "You are distributing food, and we are also distributing food. You are opening schools, and we are also opening schools."
Prabhupāda: Yes. But we are opening school for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore the rascals, they cannot understand what is bhakti and what is karma. Bhakti looks like karma, but it's not karma. It is bhakti. They cannot understand what is bhakti. Bhakti means the same karma, but for Kṛṣṇa's sake. That is bhakti. Just like the same fight, battlefield, but because it was done for Kṛṣṇa, Arjuna is accepted, bhakto 'si priyo 'si me: (BG 4.3) "You are My devotee. You are My very dear." But what did he do? His business was to fight. He fought, that's all. But fought for Kṛṣṇa. That is the secret. He did not change his fighting capacity as a warrior. But he changed his mentality. His mentality was that "Why shall I kill my kinsmen?" But Kṛṣṇa wanted, "Oh, that's all right." So therefore service is for Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Not for his sense gratification. Karmī means sense gratification, and bhakta means Kṛṣṇa's sense gratification. That is the difference. Sense gratification is there. When you do it for your personal sense grati..., it is karma. And you do it for Kṛṣṇa's sense gratification, it is bhakti. So therefore they look similar, but the quality is different. Harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). Dhare prema nāma. The gopīs, they acted like prostitutes, but the center was Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends, ramyā kacid upāsanā vrajavadhu-vargena ya kalpita (?): "Oh there is no more better mode of worship than it was conceived by the gopīs." What is their conception? Prostitution, that's all. Simple prostitute. Kṛṣṇa was a beautiful boy and they were attracted by the beauty of Kṛṣṇa. They wanted Him as their husband, lover, to dance with them. That is the gopīs. And these rascals are taking that "This is very good. Kṛṣṇa also did like this. So let us do; gather some girls and dance, and we become Kṛṣṇa." This is Māyāvāda, Therefore Vyāsadeva has devoted nine cantos just to understand Kṛṣṇa. Then try to understand what is the gopīs' behavior with Kṛṣṇa. But these rascals jump over it. Sahajiyās. Jump over Kṛṣṇa's dealing with the gopīs. And that is Bhāgavata. Because rascals, they shall remain rascal.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise, it has no meaning.
Robert Gouiran: ...etymology.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Robert Gouiran: Devoted means...
Yogeśvara: We were speaking about the verse in Bhāgavatam that says the perfection of all work is to attain that knowledge of the Supreme.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: And to please Him.
Yogeśvara: So that is also the perfection for the sannyāsī; the perfection of his work also is devotion to the Supreme.
Prabhupāda: If you renounce something for zero, then what is the value of renunciation: There must be something better. Then you renounce. Otherwise what is the value of renunciation? To become zero?
Robert Gouiran: May I ask you what do you think about possibility of healing?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Yogeśvara: Healing.
Prabhupāda: Harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). Harer nāma means God's name.
Priest: You see, for instance, in Christianity for a long time there was a bhakti, and this bhakti was devoted to the name of Jesus. So for a very long time you had that Jesus bhakti. And in your country, in America today, like you have got the Hare Kṛṣṇa, you have got also the Jesus devotees. Now, this is also present in many places. And the name does not matter. There is no name who has got the... Because then you find again what...
Prabhupāda: No. If Jesus is the name of God, then you can chant. If Jesus is the name of God. But Jesus, Lord Jesus Christ, says that he is son of God. Of course, there is no difference between son and the father. That is another thing. But still, if I want the father, how by calling the name of son I can get the father? That is also another thing.
Yogeśvara: He says, "But God reveals Himself to us."
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is fact. If you are actually devotee, then God will reveal. That is... That is stated in the Vedic language, ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ: (Brs. 1.2.234) "You cannot understand the form, name, attributes, pastimes of God by these blunt senses." These senses, present (the ten) senses, cannot realize. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ. Indriya means sense. Then how to realize? Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. When you begin service with your tongue, then gradually God reveals. So tongue means you can do two business with the tongue. One is talking, and one is eating. So if you engage your tongue in glorifying God, and if you eat God's prasādam, then you realize God. Therefore these young boys and girls from Europe and America, they have been, they are being taught, "Use the tongue for Kṛṣṇa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and eat Kṛṣṇa prasādam." And as practical result, although they are very young, still, they have realized God, Kṛṣṇa, far advanced than anyone else. They have forgotten all material things: illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, gambling. They are simply devoted in the service of Kṛṣṇa. So because they have engaged their tongue in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, they have forgotten all kinds of intoxication, meat-eating. The American Government spent millions of dollars to stop their LSD habit. They could not stop even one man. But as soon as they come to Kṛṣṇa conscious, immediately give up.
Satsvarūpa:
- teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ
- bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam
- dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ taṁ
- yena mām upayānti te
- (BG 10.10)
"To those who are constantly devoted and worship Me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come to Me."
Prabhupāda: Purport.
Satsvarūpa: In this verse the word buddhi-yogam is very significant. We may remember that in the Second Chapter the Lord, instructing Arjuna, said that He had spoken to him of many things and that He would instruct him in the way of buddhi-yoga. Now buddhi-yoga is explained. Buddhi-yogam itself is action in Kṛṣṇa consciousness; that is the highest intelligence. Buddhi means intelligence, and yogam means mystic activities or mystic elevation. When one tries to go back home, back to Godhead, and takes fully to Kṛṣṇa consciousness in devotional service, his action is called buddhi-yogam. In other words, buddhi-yogam is the process by which one gets out of the entanglement of this material world. The ultimate goal of progress is Kṛṣṇa. People do not know this; therefore the association of devotees and a bona fide spiritual master are important. One should know that the goal is Kṛṣṇa, and when the goal is assigned, then the path is slowly but progressively traversed, and the ultimate goal is achieved.
When a person knows the goal of life but is addicted to the fruits of activities, he is acting in karma-yoga. When he knows that the goal is Kṛṣṇa, but he takes pleasure in mental speculations to understand Kṛṣṇa, he is acting in jñāna-yoga. And when he knows the goal and seeks Kṛṣṇa completely in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and devotional service, he is acting in bhakti-yoga, or buddhi-yoga, which is the complete yoga. This complete yoga is the highest perfectional stage of life.
A person may have a bona fide spiritual master and may be attached to a spiritual organization, but still, if he is not intelligent enough to make progress, then Kṛṣṇa from within gives him instructions so that he may ultimately come to Him without difficulty. The qualification is that a person always engage himself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and with love and devotion render all kinds of services. He should perform some sort of work for Kṛṣṇa, and that work should be with love. If a devotee is intelligent enough, he will make progress on the path of self-realization. If one is sincere and devoted to the activities of devotional service, the Lord gives him a chance to make progress and ultimately attain to Him.
Prabhupāda: So one must be engaged in devotional service, practical. So these our boys and disciples, they are always...
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Original Sanskrit.
Guest (4): Apart from (indistinct) quality of Lord Rāma, are there a few other things which could be included while you are worshiping or devoting or meditating on...?
Prabhupāda: God has all the qualities that you can conceive. It is generally not... Bhaga(?), it is taken as six, six opulences. Bhaga means opulence, and vān means possessing. Bhagavat. Bhagavat-śabda. Bhaga means opulence, and vat means one who possesses. And the first word in bhagavat-śabda is bhagavān. This bhaga means six kinds of opulences: riches, then fame, then bodily strength, influence, knowledge, beauty, and renunciation. These are opulences. If one is very rich, people are attracted. If one is very reputed, people are attracted. If one is very strong, people are attracted. Influential-attracted. If one is very beautiful, man or woman, he is also attractive. If one is very wise, he's attractive. And one who is renounced, he's also attra... So Kṛṣṇa has got all these qualification in full. That is the definition of God. Anyone who possesses all these qualities in fullness, not partially, that is God. This is the definition of God. Not that "I can produce one ounce of gold," but if he can produce all the mines of gold, he is God. Not cheap God. In that way everyone is God. (end)
Rūpānuga: If we are strong in the principles, then we will have the intelligence to write this book.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa will give the intelligence. What is that?
Satsvarūpa: "To those who are constantly devoted and worship Me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come to Me."
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Rūpānuga: Buddhi-yoga.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Rūpānuga: It will take us some time.
Prabhupāda: It may take, that is... But do it very nicely. How many pages will it be?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We plan about 500.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. Then we shall immediately publish. What (is) the title you have given?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's called "The Origin of Life and Matter.
Prabhupāda: That is fine. That is wanted. You are expert mṛdaṅga player? I have seen. He is very, very nice.
Tripurāri: Sometimes when we go to the temples they ask us to give class, saṅkīrtana class on book distribution techniques. We tell them that before you can take any techniques, first you must follow the principles and study the books.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real technique. Our only technique is to be very devout followers of the rules and regulation.
Tripurāri: Sometimes the devotees, in their preaching, they will defeat someone.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Tripurāri: Sometimes we defeat someone by our preaching, and we show them they should take the book, but still they don't take. But if we call them a fool and point out to them how they are foolish, they become offended. So rather that we just very humbly say...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Our... We know that he is a fool, but we have to present in a different way. We shall say that "There is nobody as learned as you are." In this way just make him puffed up, and then you say humbly, "My only humble request is that whatever you have learned, please forget. Now you try to understand Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That's all." This is the different way of calling him, that "Whatever you have learned, this is all rubbish." We simply say, "Kindly forget them. Now you turn your attention to Caitanya Mahāprabhu." This is the way Prabodānanda Sarasvatī taught us. You flatter him, "Sir, I have got one request." Flatter him like anything, falling down on his leg and becoming humble and... "Sir, I have got one request." "What is that?" "You are very learned scholar. But kindly forget them, and you try to turn your attention to Caitanya Mahāprabhu." He will not be angry. Then, if he turns his attention to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then naturally he will forget all rubbish things.
Indian man (1): A lot of dangers will be there. We'll be putting ourself into trouble.
Prabhupāda: Yes, we are in trouble. Even last war, when the trouble was too much, they began to go to the church. Even Churchill. And one gentleman—he is my Godbrother in Germany—he told me, after this war many German men and women became atheist. Everyone went to the church and prayed. Especially women prayed for return of their husband, brother, father. And nobody returned. So they thought, "There is no God. So forget about all these things." People became atheist. So this risky civilization is going on. They don't want to know what is God, neither they want to satisfy Him. And our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is just the opposite, that "Here is God. You satisfy Him." That's all. "Never mind what you are, but by your occupational duty you satisfy Him. That is perfection." This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And this is taught in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa ultimately said this: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). In the beginning He said, yat karoṣi yat juhoṣi yad aśnāsi yat tapasyasi kuruṣva tad mad arpaṇam: (BG 9.27) "Do it for Me." Yat karoṣi. It doesn't matter what you are doing. And very good work or bad work or anything, when He says, yat karoṣi, means "Whatever you are doing, do it, but the result give Me." Kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam. This is His desire. And at last again He said that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. This is the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, and if somebody would say that "Simply I have to satisfy You? Then I have to satisfy others also. If I do not do, then I will be sinful," that, Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ: (BG 18.66) "Don't worry. If there is any reaction, not doing other duty, simply to surrender to Me, and if there is sinful reaction, then I'll give you protection. Don't worry." This is the conclusion. And we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, that's all, without any malinterpretation. Everyone is interpreting in his own way. But we are not interpreting. We are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. And it is becoming effective. Bhagavad-gītā was studied in the Western countries since a long time, since seventeenth century—but not like this. Before me, many swamis, yogis, they came to the Western countries, and most of them spoke on Bhagavad-gītā, but not a single person was a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. But now they are becoming by hundreds because the Bhagavad-gītā is presented as it is. This is the comparison. We have got Christians, Mohammedans, then Buddhist, Africans. Everyone we have got in our society, all very devout executor of our mission. Now here is Mr. Attar. Now he is Atreya Ṛṣi. Whatever he is earning, he is spending for Kṛṣṇa. Saṁsiddhiḥ hari-toṣaṇam. He is trying to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. So in the dictionary it is stated, "Kṛṣṇa is a Hindu god." He is not a Hindu god; He is God.
Carol: In the bhakti way of doing things, this emotion and love are very closely entwined, aren't they?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is higher stage. Not in the beginning. In the beginning devotion means I should be devoted to you. Why should I be devoted to you unless you are worthy? Just like Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender unto Me." So unless I understand that Kṛṣṇa is worth for my surrendering, He is worthy, why shall I surrender to Kṛṣṇa? If I demand, immediately you have come, that you surrender. Would you like to do that?
Carol: To surrender?
Prabhupāda: If I ask you that you surrender. I am meeting you for the first time. Would you like to surrender?
Carol: Yes.
Prabhupāda: I don't think. (laughter)
Paramahaṁsa: Even the coolies at the train station.
Prabhupāda: And by simply one daṇḍa, one is sannyāsī. This is all over the world. Mussulman, having a long beard, he is Mussulman. Mussuleḥ iman.(?) Musseleḥ means complete, and iman means honest. That is the meaning of Mussulman. Completely honest, completely devoted. Mussuleḥ iman. (long pause) We are not saying just "No sex." We don't say that. We simply say, "No illicit sex," and they do not like it. We don't say "No sex," but simply by saying, "No illicit sex," they don't like. Why? There is a Bengali song, "cakṣe yadi lage bhala kena dadimali" (?) "If I want to see something beautiful, why shall I not see?" That is pravṛtti. "I want to do it. I like to do it. Why should you say, 'No'?" This is the position. "I like to do it. I must do it." This is called pravṛtti (long pause) "I like to interpret Bhagavad-gītā in this way. Why should you say no?" This is going on. (break) The school students, college students, "I like to copy. Why shall I repress(?) ?" This is education. Here also they copy?
Prabhupāda: So if you distribute this knowledge, that will be real social work. And if you give some help, temporary, but he remains subjected to the rules of birth, death, and old age, that is temporary.
Sister: If you're devoted enough can you gain release from birth, death, and old age completely in one life?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is explained here.
Sister: Yeah, within one material life? You necessarily don't have to return?
Prabhupāda: No.
Sister: It's only if you haven't got rid of these impurities that you have to return, take on another body?
Prabhupāda: Just if you do not try to understand Kṛṣṇa, then you have to. Here it is said, "One who understands Me definitely, he does not come." So try to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And you become free from birth and death and old age.
Mother: And what about before they joined Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: He was subjected to birth and death and old age, that's all.
Brahmānanda: From Mathurā.
Prabhupāda: Mathurā, yes. His father, mother... That Sally used to say, "My husband is a lost child of their parents." He is not doing very well. He is getting $800. At that time, maybe $1,000. What is here, eight hundred, thousand dollars? He could have lived very comfortably at his father's care. He is very rich man. (break) (walking:) Thing is that people are working so hard day and night for these temporary years, and less than that laboring they can go to back to home, back to Godhead. Little labor. But they do not know. Kṛṣṇa says, yānti deva-vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ (BG 9.25), bhūtejyā yānti bhū..., mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. Just to get a nice car, a nice wife, and a few children by working so hard, bhūtejya, and the same labor, mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām, if he devotes for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he goes back to home, back to Godhead. And what is wrong there? We have got so many Kṛṣṇa conscious devotees. What is wrong there than these ordinary karmīs? Hmm? Are we unhappy? What do you think?
Brahmatīrtha: No, nice.
Prabhupāda: Here also they say. Just like in Bombay, the Bandra(?).
Harikeśa: Ah, terrible.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What's Viṣṇujana doing? (break) ...Deity, I've never seen it. He gets up early in the morning, wakes Him up, cooks for Him, then we offer ārati, then bathing and dressing the Deity, sings for Him all day. He's so devoted to Rādhā-Dāmodara.
Prabhupāda: Svarūpa-siddhi, arcana-siddhi. By simply worshiping Deity one can become perfect. Arcana-siddhi.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a great advantage of our bus. Now we just traveled for two days in a row from San Francisco, but we did not miss one ārati, we had six āratis, full prasādam. We took bath on the bus in our shower room. We had regular classes, kīrtana all day. It was undisturbed.
Prabhupāda: So why not one week with them? I am prepared. (end)
Prabhupāda: They say everything one; no devotee, no devotion, and no person. Everything becomes one.
Prof. Hopkins: So that would then be the deciding test, as it were, of whether one were a serious devotee or not.
Prabhupāda: Devotee means serious devotee.
Prof. Hopkins: Not only that one is devoted now, but that one sees the goal as perpetual devotion.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Nitya-yukta.
Prof. Hopkins: And which never is there...
Prabhupāda: The word is used, nitya-yukta. Nitya-yukta means perpetually. If a devotee is to merge into the existence of the Lord then why this word is used, nitya-yukta. Upāsana. Not only nitya-yukta, upāsana. Upāsana means "you worship Me." As soon as the word is "he worships" that means the worshipable and the mode of worship and the worshiper must be there. That is indicated, nitya-yukta, perpetual. But the Māyāvādīs or these impersonalists, they think that it is temporary. I am devotee temporarily. As soon as I become perfect I become one.
Prabhupāda: "That's all right. Without serving Kṛṣṇa, I am getting pleasure by drinking wine. Why shall I...?"
Cyavana: That pleasure will not last. That pleasure is only temporary.
Prabhupāda: "No, I will not also last. (laughter) that..."
Cyavana: But to accept such a mentality, we say that is third class. Actually our life is eternal.
Prabhupāda: That is your statement, "third class," but my statement is "It is first class." (laughter)
Harikeśa: Is it first class if every time you are going to eat something nice I was standing over you with a stick, and as soon as you took, I would beat you? So every time you have some enjoyment, there is some concurrent suffering. Like you enjoy the wine, but then you have a headache, hangover. You enjoy. Then you get sick.
Cyavana: Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā in the Tenth Chapter, He says, "For those who are constantly devoted and worship Me with love, I will give the understanding by which they can come to Me." So this is our desire.
Prabhupāda: "I don't want to go."
Cyavana: You don't want to go to Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: "Yes."
Devotee (9): Prabhupāda, sometimes I've seen devotees say that they did not like to chant in the temple room with the opposite...
Prabhupāda: Then that is a rascal. He is not a devotee. He is a rascal, when a devotee says... How you become devoted? If he does not like the temple and he thinks to be happy outside, what is he? What kind of devotee he is? He is not a devotee.
Devotee (9): What I meant to say is he does not want to chant with women in the temple room. I have seen this before. He says, "I do not want to chant in a room with women. I would rather be away from the women."
Prabhupāda: That means he has got distinction between men and women. He is not yet paṇḍit. Paṇḍitaḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). He is a fool. That's all. He is a fool. So what is the value of his words? He is a fool.
Indian man (4): So he'll go first to make...
Prabhupāda: He should always consider, "There is woman, that's all. She is my mother." That's all. Matṛvāt para-dareṣu. Then what is the...? Suppose you sit down with your mother and chant. What is the wrong? But he is not so strong; then he should go to the forest. Why he should live in the Nairobi city? On the street there are so many women. He will walk on the street closing the eyes? (laughter) This is all rascaldom. They are rascals. They are not devotees, simply rascals.
Prabhupāda: And he said "Hare Kṛṣṇa"?
Indian devotee (1): Yes. "Hare Kṛṣṇa." He said "Hare Kṛṣṇa." And he told me that "You come later on, and we will sit and talk."
Prabhupāda: So go and sit and talk. What is his grievance?
Devotee (1): His wife is very devoted. She has a small Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. She is... (indistinct)
Tejās: He is a very dirty man. His wife sometimes likes to give even a little flower, and she is afraid he will beat her if she gives anything to the temple.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...sign? Rāmacandra?
Tejās: Garuḍa and Hanumān.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Tejās: Rāmacandra, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, Garuḍa, and Hanumān.
Prabhupāda: (break) Unnecessarily there are so many parties, and they fight one another. This is democracy. Today is ekādaśī?
Tejās: Today.
Harikeśa: Except surrender.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He can surrender, and Kṛṣṇa will do everything. You have to act very sincerely under the direction of Kṛṣṇa, and then the war will be successful, as Arjuna did.
Harikeśa: So imperfect activity is a sign of lack of surrender.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...avaśya rakṣibe kṛṣṇa. Rakṣiṣyati iti viśvāsa-pālanam. You work sincerely, devoutly, and have faith that "Kṛṣṇa will save me from all dangers." Rakṣiṣyati iti viśvāsa-pālanam. "I have surrendered to Kṛṣṇa sincerely. Now Kṛṣṇa will give me all protection." This faith, that is the beginning of devotional life. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Faith.
Harikeśa: So this faith, is this śraddhā or niṣṭha?
Prabhupāda: Śraddhā. Beginning, śraddhā. Then, when he is advanced, then he becomes fixed up. "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is protecting me." (break) ...that here is some goddess Kali, and nobody is living here.
Harikeśa: No, and then they worship in that temple. That's a temple there.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. No, the road is, er, gate is closed. (break) People in general, they take that "There is no God, and if there is God, He is now dead." This is general impression.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very exalted.
Prabhupāda: Hm? Yes. So you have to preach all over the world that "You are simply wasting time by so many department of knowledge. You are so foolish, rascal." Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply wasting time. I think I explained that to that gentleman last morning? He said in one hour, two hour you should devote... Not two hour. Twenty-four hour. Did I not say? Yes. Because that is the only business. We have no other business. Our Society is practically demonstrating that this is the only business and no other business. We therefore do not try even to earn our livelihood. That is the natural instinct of every animal. But we do not try even for that. Is it not?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Transcendental platform.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Let them see practically. We are not busy how to go to the office, how to the business place. We are not interested. We are simply interested for maṅgala ārati, for class, for chanting, dancing. That's all. Practically see. We are not going to any office or any business.
Prabhupāda: After all, understanding... Therefore they are mūḍhas. They have to understand. If they do not understand, they remain mūḍha. That is human life. The human being should understand that "I am mūḍha, so I'll have to learn." And the Vedas says, "Then go to guru." Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet: (MU 1.2.12) "You must go if you want to learn." And if he remains mūḍha and speculates, then he remains mūḍha. He never gets the enlightenment. He remains continually... Mūḍhā janmani janmani mām aprāpyaiva (BG 16.20). He cannot get God. Life after life, he will go on like that, mūḍha. Asuriṣu-yoni. Asurika-yoni. He'll remain completely ignorant about God, what was his function, only function to understand God during this life of human form of life. And so-called science wants to keep him rascal and mūḍha, that's all. Therefore we fight so much with these rascals, big rascals. They want to keep them. He is mūḍha, he is blind, and he's trying to lead other blind men. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām (SB 7.5.31). Rascal does not know that he is hand and bound..., hand and leg, bound up by the laws of material; still he denies, that "I am independent. I can think independently. I can avoid God," and so many things. Therefore they are mūḍhas. He cannot do it. In every inch he is bound up, and still he is thinking, "independent." That is the first-class mūḍha. Mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti loko mām ajam avyayam (BG 7.25). Every... Dark, darkness. He keeps himself in darkness. This life was given to him by nature to become liberated by understanding God, but he does not take care of. He is making plan: "We shall be happy like this. We shall be happy like this. We shall be happy like this." Therefore they are mūḍhas. That will not help him. He does not know that. And if he simply tries to understand Kṛṣṇa, he becomes immediately liberated. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti.. (BG 4.9).. Everything is there. But he will do so many plans, and nothing will be successful. He'll avoid Kṛṣṇa. This is the first-class mūḍha. Athāto brahma jijñāsā, the Vedānta philosophy's first instruction: "Now you inquire about God. This is the only chance. As cats and dogs you cannot do that. Now, atha, ataḥ. You have enjoyed your senses so much as cats, dogs, tigers, so on, so on. Now you devote to understand, inquiry."
Prabhupāda: What is these jñānīs? They are also another rascal, another edition of rascals. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). Therefore so-called jñānīs, after many, many births' practical realization, they surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā (BG 7.19). Then he understands that Kṛṣṇa is everything. But such great person is very, very rare. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ, very, very rare.
Dayānanda: But what about the persons who may be a little bit devoted but who have not achieved that unalloyed devotion?
Prabhupāda: Kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. They are not devotees, but they are called bhaktābhāsa. There is some signs of bhakti. Actually they are not bhakta. Bhaktābhāsa. Ābhāsa. Ābhāsa means a simple, a little light.
Hṛdayānanda: So devotee really means one who has love for Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes, unalloyed, without any condition. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11), zero, all other, that "I am this, I am that, I am jñānī, I am yogi, I am karmī, I am minister, I am king"—all these are thinking like that, they're all nonsense. "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa"—that is greatness. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). That is self-realization, ātma-tattvam.
Prabhupāda: All right. Let them send. (break) ...is compared with a rose flower without flavor. Man with education is compared with the koi. (cuckoo bird) Kokilānāṁ svaro rūpam. The bird, koi, is very black, but his sound, sweet, so sweet, everyone likes. Kokilānām svaro-rūpaṁ vidyā-rūpaṁ ku-rūpanam, nārī-rūpaṁ pati-vrataḥ. And woman's beauty is how she is chaste and devoted to the husband. That is beauty, not personal beauty. Vidyā-rūpaṁ ku-rūpanam. And education is the beauty for the brain. And the beauty of the koi is her sweet voice. Kṣamā-rūpaṁ tapasvinaḥ. And those who are saintly person, they should be simply forgiving. That is their beauty.
Haṁsadūta: Forgiving?
Pusta Kṛṣṇa: Forgiving.
Prabhupāda: Forgiving. Kṣamā-rūpaṁ tapasvinaḥ. Did Christ said that "Father, they did not know..."?
Haṁsadūta: Yeah. "Forgive them, for they know not what they do. Forgive them for they know not..."
Prabhupāda: Just see how much forgiving. This is saintly character. They're killing, and still forgiving. Kṣamā-rūpaṁ tapasvinaḥ. Christ is very ideal character, but these Christians, they not dignified him-degraded. So you can get on?
Prabhupāda: What he says?
Satsvarūpa: "Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the Indian classic par excellence on bhakti-yoga, attributed to Vyāsa, is one of the most important and influential religio-philosophical works within the Vedic tradition. Thanks to the devoted and scholarly endeavors of Śrī A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, the entire work of twelve cantos will be available in a superb English edition for the benefit of the English-reading peoples. In his impeccable style the author presents each verse in original Sanskrit, followed by roman transliteration, English equivalents, translation, and elaborate commentary. The lucid and cogent exegesis brings into relief the theory and practice of Bhāgavata philosophy in relation to contemporary man and his problems of life. I have read the first volume containing First Canto, Part One, Chapter 1-7, with pleasure and profit. A brief account of the life of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu included in this volume illustrates the central theme of the entire text, the loving service of God. A glossary and index to Sanskrit verses and a general index have been added for the convenience of scholars. This monumental work is immensely valuable alike to historians of religion, linguistic scholars, cultural anthropologists, pious devotees, as well as to the general reader interested in spiritual matters. I recommend it highly to every student of Indian philosophy, culture, and religion."
Devotee (1): Then he ordered two standing orders for the library, and they took it. (break)
Prabhupāda: Oh, that Australian...? (break)
Satsvarūpa: "It is a work to be treasured. The opportunity to receive the profound teachings of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in the West has been made possible by the devoted labor of Śrīla Prabhupāda. The clarity and precision of his commentaries on the text have rarely been equaled. No one of whatever faith or philosophical persuasion who reads this book with an open mind can fail to be both moved and impressed. The spirit of its message shines brightly from the pages."
Rāmeśvara: Jaya!
Ghanaśyāma: And he's a psychologist. Usually psychologists, they're very much sort of against spiritual life. Śrīla Prabhupāda, this one here, this is one of the biggest linguistic schools in the world, and this gentleman was the chairman of the department, so he's known all over the world for his studies in different kinds of languages.
Prabhupāda: Hm. What does he say?
Satsvarūpa: "It is axiomatic that no book can be expected entirely to satisfy all its potential readers.
Prabhupāda: Ādi-puruṣam. Govindam ādi-puruṣam, that puruṣa. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. We are worshiping that supreme and original person. And the women are declaring, "independent." They are begging door to door to a man, "Please give me shelter. Give me a child," and they're independent. One American woman, was.... She was speaking that "In India the woman are treated as slave. We don't want." So I told her that it is better to become slave of one person than to slave of become hundreds. (laughter) The woman must become a slave. So instead of becoming slaves of so many persons, it is better to remain satisfied, a slave of one person. So she was stopped. She was the secretary of that Dr. Miśra. You know that? And our Vedic civilization says, narī-rūpaṁ pati-vratam: "The woman is beautiful when she remains as a slave to the husband." That is the beauty, not the personal beauty. How much she has learned to remain as a slave to the husband, that is Vedic civilization. Kokilānāṁ svaro rūpam. The cuckoo, it is black bird, but why people love it? Because of the sweet voice. Kokilānāṁ svaro rūpaṁ vidyā-rūpaṁ kurūpaṇam. A man may be ugly, black, but if he's learned, everyone will respect him. And narī-rūpaṁ pati-vratam. And the beauty of woman is how much she is devoted and obedient to the husband. So it is very difficult.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Flares.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So you can invent so many means of curing the danger. But as soon as the sun is there, immediately all mist is over. Similarly, we have invented so many medicines and counteractions for so many things. But if one becomes a devotee, all these troubles immediately.... That is the only one medicine. He has no more any inclination. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: (CC Madhya 22.42) "No more I want." And that is wanted. (break) ...asmi varaṁ na yāce. One should be fully satisfied: "No more I want this material disease. That's all. Enough of it." That mentality required: "I don't want anything material facility." Sannyāsa means that, that "I shall live with the minimum necessities of life and simply devote..." That is sannyāsa. "I shall become a sannyāsī and enjoy all material facilities"—that is not sannyāsa. (break) ...recommended that "If there is no need, don't take even cloth. Remain naked." That is sannyāsa. But because we have to preach, because we have to go the people, therefore some covering. Otherwise, this is also not necessary for a sannyāsī. Nothing. Lie down on the floor like the Śukadeva Gosvāmī said, and take water in your palm, no dress. Śukadeva was also not dressing, naked. That is the perfection of sannyāsa. (break) Where is Jayapatākā? (break) ...talk with this boy. He wanted to.... (break) ...make. He's offering a land. Did you talk with him?
Jayapatākā: No. I sent.... Śatadhanya talked with him.
Śatadhanya: This man right here?
Jayapatākā: No, a different. This boy?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jagannātha: And he is making many improvements.
Prabhupāda: No. He can, all of you can if you like.
Rāmeśvara: This is, Śrīla Prabhupāda, Allen, who is becoming very enthusiastic to support our movement.
Prabhupāda: Thank you.
Rāmeśvara: His wife is very, very devoted.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: She is always insisting that he give more. (break) (in car:)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about July?
Rāmeśvara: And this month, coming up, at the end of June, we are printing one million copies, just for one month's sale. For this Bicentennial celebration. There'll be so many people coming to the parks and monuments to observe this event.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...Kolan(?), the paper, most important theistic paper in India. And during Harivan Prasada's time, they were selling all ninety-five thousand. Between one lakh, nine thousands.
Rāmeśvara: That priest that has now become your disciple, he's joining Satsvarūpa Mahārāja's party. He's very interested, and Satsvarūpa Mahārāja has said he would like him to come to travel together and study.
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Nalinīkaṇṭha: In the West, people are generally unfamiliar, I think, with the philosophy of Śaṅkara, yet in your books you devote so much argument to defeating Māyāvāda philosophy. I was wondering if it is within every conditioned soul's heart to be an impersonalist. Is it.... Does every conditioned soul have the propensity for impersonalism?
Prabhupāda: No, they cannot understand God; therefore it is impersonalism. It is due to their poor fund of knowledge. So most people are in poor fund of knowledge.
Hari-śauri: As soon as one forgets Kṛṣṇa, he's impersonal.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mahendra: Just like many of us, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we were thinking, that...
Prabhupāda: They cannot think that a person, how he can produce a sky? That is beyond their conception. This is their illusion.(?) They say God is all-powerful, but He cannot produce a sky. This is their defect of knowledge. If God is all-powerful, why He cannot produce a sky? That they cannot think. Yes, He's all-powerful, cannot produce a sky. Their intellect. Poor intellect.
Prabhupāda: You cannot clear up all the responsibility. Therefore up to fiftieth year. After that, whatever is done, that's all. (Sanskrit) But our philosophy is there is no question of giving up this or taking up that. Simply take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Wherever you remain, it doesn't matter. Either in family life or...
Indian man (5): In the vānaprastha āśrama, after fifty years of age, what is the duty? Is it to live in the temple, or devote most of time to Kṛṣṇa, or where the wife comes in then?
Prabhupāda: Temple you should live always. Even if in family life, you must come to the temple. Temple worship is for everyone.
Indian man (4): Śrīla Prabhupāda, you wrote a lot of books, and I'm very much concerned about the books. A lot of devotees, they never read the books, but they're doing the chanting. It will progress them without reading the books, because they're the most important...
Prabhupāda: But suppose one is illiterate, how he'll read? How he'll read if one is illiterate? That means he has no chance? Because he's illiterate? Chanting is sufficient.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh yes.
Prabhupāda: Anyone? We are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, our business is to surrender to Him. And Kṛṣṇa personally advises that "You surrender unto Me. I shall give you all protection." This is religion.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes we meet people in our preaching activities. They may, of course, claim to be very devout Christian or Muslim, but at the same time they will blaspheme Kṛṣṇa. Is it possible that such persons can actually be associates of God?
Prabhupāda: No, no. It is just like in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement there are so many Christians, so many Jews, so many Mohammedan, and Hindus. Everyone is there. It is a question of understanding. So in the beginning if... But if he's serious to understand what is God, then he will accept Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Lord. If he knows what is God, then he'll understand, "Here is God." If he remains in darkness, he does not know what is God, then how he'll understand Kṛṣṇa? He'll understand Kṛṣṇa as one of us. That's all. But if he knows what is God then he'll understand. Yes, here is God, Just like if a person knows what is gold, then anywhere gold, he'll understand, "Here is gold." It does not mean only gold, in certain shop only gold is available. But if he knows what is God, what is meaning of God, that he will find in Kṛṣṇa in fullness. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). The śāstra says how He is Bhagavān, what is Bhagavān. You should understand and see from the activities of Kṛṣṇa whether He is not Bhagavān. It requires brain to understand. I say, "Here is God." Now it is up to you. If you know what is God, then test it, and then you'll accept God. If you do not know how to test it, then you may refuse. That is another thing. You'll accept iron as gold. That is your ignorance. You do not know what is gold. But if you actually know what is gold, you will accept Kṛṣṇa as God, there is no doubt about it. So this is the only platform, Bhagavad-gītā. Everyone come and take to Kṛṣṇa and understand God and learn how to love Him and your life is perfect.
Prabhupāda: All other business subordinate. That is only, because you have got this body, material body, it requires little rest, little sense gratification, little eating, little sleeping. We don't say stop it completely. That is not possible. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya, as far as it is required. As little as possible. That is spiritual advancement. If we make our progressive life engaged in understanding Kṛṣṇa instead of devoting in these unnecessary things, that is real life. That is real human life. The Vedic civilization is that. We find Vyāsadeva writing so exalted books, but life was very simple. People are, now in the modern civilization, people are accustomed only to the comforts of the body. Not for spiritual advance. That is the defect of modern civilization. (break)
Devotee (4): Śrīla Prabhupāda, no matter what material body you have, by material nature given you, one of the most predominating features of material life is pain. I want to address myself to this question, because in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we frequently face this problem. We have the pain of, for example, if you do tapasya, that's a pain to deprive your body of sense gratification. If you don't have sleep, you have to force yourself. If you have sickness, mental disturbances, so many things, then there's the other kind of pain.
Prabhupāda: That is being explained, that we don't want to stop sleeping, but minimize it. That is being already explained. We don't say complete negation. No. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya. Simply sleep as little as possible. Not that to take, just like in the Western countries, they take sleeping as enjoyment.
Prabhupāda: Art?
Indian man: Yes, like painting, or music, or literature, poetry, like that. Because the problem is that they, if one devotes oneself to these things, they are full-time things, they take all your energy and time. And so...
Prabhupāda: Devotion means to engage your energy and time for Kṛṣṇa. Anyway you do that, that is utilized. Sarvopādhi-vinir... tat-paratvena. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa sevanam (CC Madhya 19.170). So if you can serve Kṛṣṇa by your hand, by painting about Kṛṣṇa, that is service. If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, if you hear the chanting, that is also service. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇu, about Lord Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa. That is the beginning. Kṛṣṇa is the reservoir of pleasure, ānandamayo 'byāsāt. So these things are producing ānanda. If it is in connection with Kṛṣṇa, then it is service. (aside:) So, Pālikā, you can take these fruits, cut into pieces and distribute it.
Devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.
Prabhupāda: You are reading Caitanya Mahāprabhu. About Nityānanda, see the contents? No, in the beginning. Chapter where is contents. Nityānanda-tattva.
Rūpānuga: "The Glories of Lord Nityānanda-Balarāma."
Prabhupāda: Fifth Chapter?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: "This chapter is chiefly devoted to describing the essential nature and glories of Śrī Nityānanda Prabhu. Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the absolute Personality of Godhead, and His first expansion in a form for pastimes is Śrī Balarāma. Beyond the limitation of this material world is the spiritual sky, paravyoma, which has many spiritual planets, the supreme of which is called Kṛṣṇaloka. Kṛṣṇaloka, the abode of Kṛṣṇa, has three divisions, which are known as Dvārakā, Mathurā and Gokula. In that abode the Personality of Godhead expands Himself into four plenary portions-Kṛṣṇa, Balarāma, Pradyumna (the transcendental Cupid) and Aniruddha. They are known as the original quadruple forms. In Kṛṣṇaloka is a transcendental place known as Śvetadvīpa, or Vṛndāvana. Below Kṛṣṇaloka, in the spiritual sky, are the Vaikuṇṭha planets. On each Vaikuṇṭha planet a four-handed Nārāyaṇa, expanded from the first quadruple manifestation, is present. The Personality of Godhead known as Śrī Balarāma in Kṛṣṇaloka is the original Saṅkarṣaṇa (attracting Deity), and from this Saṅkarṣaṇa expands another Saṅkarṣaṇa, called Mahā-Saṅkarṣaṇa, who resides in one of the Vaikuṇṭha planets. By His internal potency, Mahā-Saṅkarṣaṇa maintains the transcendental existence of all the planets in the spiritual sky, where all the living beings are eternally liberated souls. The influence of the material energy is conspicuous there by its absence. On those planets the second quadruple manifestation is present. Outside of the Vaikuṇṭha planets is the impersonal manifestation of Śrī Kṛṣṇa, which is known as the Brahmaloka. On the other side of the Brahmaloka is the spiritual kāraṇa-samudra, or Causal Ocean. The material energy exists on the other side of the Causal Ocean, without touching it. In the Causal Ocean is Mahā-Viṣṇu, the original puruṣa expansion from Saṅkarṣaṇa. This Mahā-Viṣṇu places His glance over the material energy, and by a reflection of His transcendental body He amalgamates Himself within the material elements. As the source of the material elements, the material energy is known as pradhāna, and as the source of the manifestations of the material energy it is known as māyā. But material nature is inert in that she has no independent power to do anything. She is empowered to make the cosmic manifestation by the glance of Mahā-Viṣṇu. Therefore the material energy is not the original cause of the material manifestation. Rather, the transcendental glance of Mahā-Viṣṇu over material nature produces that cosmic manifestation."
Prabhupāda: So you try to understand this, everything will be clear. Material energy has no power to create. It is this glance that makes material energy energetic. Chemical combination, that alkaline and acid, they create some agitation, effervescence, but it is done by the chemist. He mixes the two liquids and there is effervescence. It is like that. So you read that chapter carefully. You'll solve your problem.
Prabhupāda: They should be trained up. Therefore Vedic civilization is training. Some section of the people, they should be very intellectuals, brain, just like to maintain this body we require first of all the brain. If the brain is not order, then other parts, they may be there, but they are also useless. So similarly, in the society, some intellectuals should be maintained. They are called brāhmaṇas, and some of the brāhmaṇas, they are sannyāsīs. They are simply meant for giving good instruction. They should personally become very good and intellectual, and they should give instruction to other people what is the value of life, how to live. This is one section. They should be free from the anxiety of maintaining themselves. The society should treat them as children and give them all necessities, bare necessities, not they are meant for living very luxuriously. No. Simple living. Then the next class, kṣatriyas, the politicians, administrators, they are also required to give protection to the people from injury. Kṣatriya, kṣat means injury, and trāyate, "one who saves people from injury." It is kṣatriya's duty. So kṣatriya should protect all the living entities, including the animals. They are also subjects. So the first, intellectual brāhmaṇas, then kṣatriya. Then vaiśyas, their business is to produce food. Food production you can do by agriculture, kṛṣi, and by giving protection to the cows. If you get sufficient food grains, like rice, wheat, pulses, and sufficient milk—from milk you get yogurt, butter, ghee—then your all food problem is solved. You must eat. You must eat, you must live properly. So this first, second, third, the intellectual class, the administrative class, and the productive class, these three classes must be there in the society. And those who cannot be grouped either of these three classes, they should generally help as workers. They are called śūdras. So the workers means... Suppose you require a sitting place: the carpenter is there. Suppose you require a knife: so the blacksmith is there. You require clothing: the weaver is there. In this way, four classes of men. First class, second class, third class, or the intellectuals, the administrators, the producers and the general workers. This is Vedic system of division. Brāhmaṇa... This is for our living condition, and then human life especially meant for spiritual realization, self-realization. For that purpose, again, another four divisions. Generally, the brahmacārī, student life; gṛhastha, married life; vānaprastha, retired life; and sannyāsa, renounced life. So at the end of life one should be renounced from all other responsibilities and completely devote his life for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness. In this way, when a person dies in God consciousness, his life is perfect. This is Vedic civilization. Eight divisions, varṇa and āśrama. And if you simply produce śūdras, working class, then you cannot have any happiness. That is not possible. And nowadays democratic, if you send some śūdras to act as kṣatriyas, they cannot do it. You have got practical experience. In Vietnam, what happened?
Prabhupāda: Give little, a small pot.
Dr. Sharma: Prabhupāda, you have given such beautiful temples, so many devotees, now to have a point of jump so that all India and all the world and other people can join in this. Your answers today were very penetrating. That can help a lot, saying that people can work outside but still be devotees, and if they can chant, if they can devote work, and if they can submit all the fruits of their actions, if this can be somehow made available, this particular...
Prabhupāda: It is available.
Dr. Sharma: Yes, but these few questions only, the answers, that these are from you and these are there, then it will be a point of jump in the movement. It will be a big jump in the movement. And what can we do...?
Prabhupāda: So come and join us and help us.
Dr. Sharma: I would be most honored to do it, and I am trying from the outside.
Prabhupāda: No, you are in Washington?
Dr. Sharma: Yes, I am in Washington.
Prabhupāda: So organize here. Talk with the scientists and everyone here.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I asked, there's another very special magazine came out, and I asked Rādhāvallabha to bring it and present it to you. It's from New York, but I wanted him to read some of the things. He read the whole thing, it's a whole magazine devoted to meditation groups, and they have featured our society as the best. It's clear, our society was featured more than any others. They mentioned Maharishi and so many others, but they gave...
Prabhupāda: We are also mentioned.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They gave us the most space in the magazine.
Hari-śauri: They did it in sections. There was a bit about kīrtana, there was a section about shaving the head, there's a whole section about Kṛṣṇa prasādam, how to offer it and cook it and everything. It was very nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's getting it ready. He wants to read you certain things in the magazine. He likes to prepare things to discuss with you, Rādhāvallabha, controversial topics.
Prabhupāda: What is that controversial? (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Oh, my picture also.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Prabhupāda, ācārya-founder." Tells all about you and your books.
Hari-śauri: It especially mentions your books.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is a whole page devoted about your books.
Hari-śauri: This is the downstairs.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Hare Kṛṣṇa Meditation. Who is Kṛṣṇa?" "The Kṛṣṇa Cut." It tells about the haircut, śikhā.
Prabhupāda: "Kṛṣṇa cut" (laughs).
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then in the back there's more articles about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there's the..., here, "Food for the gods, prasādam."
Hari-śauri: Describes what standard we have for making the prasādam, how you can't taste it, you have to be very clean.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's that..., remember I was telling you about that meditation on the ping-pong balls?
Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Hmm. What does he say?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Prabhupāda, ācārya-founder, born Abhay Caran De in India in 1895, the founder, future founder-ācārya, spiritual leader of ISKCON, came under the spiritual direction of Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja, ascetic scholar and preacher who had devoted his life to the spread of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Three years later, shortly before he died, Bhaktisiddhānta ordered Abhay to spread the Kṛṣṇa faith in the English language. One of the ways that Abhay, now known as Prabhupāda-'one at whose feet masters sit'-did that was to begin to translate the classic Vedic literature, but it was not until thirty years after he was charged by his spiritual mentor that he was able to make a trip to the United States. He arrived in Boston in September, 1965, a spry but grim-faced passenger of seventy years on the steamer Jaladuta. He had forty rupees in his pocket and a metal suitcase full of his books and translations. Finding his way to New York City, he set up a storefront temple at 26 Second Avenue in the East Village section. Gradually he drew a small coterie of students around him, mostly through his preaching in Tompkinson Park. As his movement grew, he found backers among his converts. Hare Kṛṣṇa centers were established in Boston, Buffalo and San Francisco, and an appreciation of Prabhupāda's Vedic translations by American university authorities, Columbia, Princeton, Yale professors among others, permitted the establishment of the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust in Los Angeles. The Trust launched a promotion of Prabhupāda's translations and original works under the logo of the Living Library of Transcendental Knowledge. Remarkably, in the face of a worldwide economic recession, the Trust's book and magazine sales reached nine million in 1975, up 34.5 percent over 1974. Some of this was due to the determined promotion of groups such as the hundred-man Rādhā-Dāmodara group which criss-crosses the country in six Greyhound-type buses and ten vans giving lectures and kīrtanas at college university campuses. Now eighty-one years old, Prabhupāda still works at his writings and the spiritual direction of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. His translation of Bhagavad-gītā, the Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, the most widely used in the Western world, is in great demand by professors of Indology and Vedic literature."
Prabhupāda: He has given advertisement for our books.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, very favorable.
Rādhāvallabha: The amazing thing is that he's an impersonalist.
Prabhupāda: Impersonalist?
Rādhāvallabha: The man who wrote all of these articles, he's an impersonalist.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's a picture of him.
Prabhupāda: Oh, he's American?
Prabhupāda: I have got two daughters and two sons. My wife is also still living.
Interviewer: Is she Kṛṣṇa conscious?
Prabhupāda: Not very much. Naturally women are after worldly opulence.
Interviewer: Was it difficult for you to give up what you had been doing in order to devote full time.
Prabhupāda: No, it is the Vedic system that at a certain age they should give up family connection and completely devote for God consciousness. In the beginning, twenty-five years, he should learn from guru about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then, if he is able, he does not become a family man, but if he is unable or circumstantially, he may become a family man. So he can remain a family man up to fiftieth year and then he retires from family life. He travels in holy places with his wife, and sometimes he comes home and sometimes he goes home. In this way, when he's practiced to give up family attachment, then the wife goes back home to the care of her elderly children, and the man takes sannyāsa, and he remains alone simply for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is Vedic system.
Rāmeśvara: Vedic system means very traditional, from ancient India.
Interviewer: Yes. Now, you are not practicing the Vedic system, then, here, are you? Or are you?
Rāmeśvara: We are following.
Prabhupāda: No, it is all Vedic system. It is Vedic system.
Interviewer: Young men do not generally possess a great deal of wisdom.
Prabhupāda: No, if he's trained up. Just like here we have got so many young men. They are trained up. So there is no prohibition that a young man cannot become a sannyāsa. If he's able, he can take sannyāsa from the very beginning. But if he's not able, let him enter into household life and then remain as householder up to fiftieth year, then retire, then take sannyāsa. It is not an enforcement. A gradual process. But the ultimate end is to become free from all material attachment and completely devote life for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the ultimate end. Because human life is meant for that purpose, self-realization or spiritual realization, that opportunity must be given to all human beings. Unfortunately at the present moment the civilization has no scope for spiritual realization. They live like other animals, eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That's all. They do not know there is another life, spiritual life, and neither there is any education or institution to educate them. Now we are trying for that purpose.
Prabhupāda: Ah, teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam (BG 10.10).
Hari-śauri: Dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ taṁ yena mām upayānti te.
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.
Hari-śauri: "To those who are constantly devoted and worship Me with love, I give them the understanding by which they can come to Me."
Prabhupāda: God is situated in everyone's heart. As soon as He sees that "Here is a qualified person," then He gives him instruction.
Interviewer: But in the same way that Kṛṣṇa says He'll provide for your needs you still must work to achieve whatever Kṛṣṇa is giving you.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You work for Kṛṣṇa. You have to work to get your necessities.
Interviewer: In the same way I'm curious with respect to the way Kṛṣṇa communicates with you, whether it's in a similar kind of way that He gives you your necessities.
Bali-mardana: In other words, when you decide that someone is to be in charge of a particular temple does Kṛṣṇa tell you that this person should be in charge.
Interviewer: Or do you by judging him say this person is qualified.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because a devotee always consults Kṛṣṇa and He gives order.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes, I remember. He has got any questions?
Atreya Ṛṣi: Terry, do you have any questions?
Terry: I have a question about this particular age. The world seems to be dividing itself between two kinds of materialists, the one which pays lip service to spiritual precedents but really devotes itself to self-aggrandizement, and the other which establishes an atheistic doctrine in the name of moral struggle with that greedy self-aggrandizement. In fact this atheistic moral doctrine has now taken over virtually the entire Sinic world—China, Tibet, Indochina. Is there some way that, the question is, what is the cosmic purpose for this and how should one come to terms with this prevailing, this increasingly prevailing notion that justice can be established in a material state or a material dimension?
Prabhupāda: In the material world there cannot be any peace, justice, morality. It is not possible. You may try to make some adjustment, but it will never be possible. So, by their concocted imagination, they are thinking, "This way will be beneficial," but unless they come to the spiritual platform, there is no question of peace, prosperity, justice. It is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Read, after sixty-fourth verse, read all the verses.
Pradyumna:
- sarva-guhyatamaṁ bhūyaḥ
- śṛnu me paramaṁ vacaḥ
- iṣṭo 'si me dṛḍham iti
- tato vakṣyāmi te hitam
"Because you are My very dear friend, I am speaking to you the most confidential part of knowledge. Hear this from Me, for it is for your benefit."
- man-manā bhava mad-bhakto
- mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru
- mām evaiṣyasi satyaṁ te
- pratijāne priyo 'si me
- (BG 18.65)
"Always think of Me and become My devotee. Worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend."
- sarva-dharmān parityajya
- mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja
- ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo
- mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ
- (BG 18.66)
"Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear."
- idaṁ te nātapaskāya
- nābhaktāya kadācana
- na cāśuśrūṣave vācyaṁ
- na ca māṁ yo 'bhyasūyati
"This confidential knowledge may not be explained to those who are not austere, or devoted, or engaged in devotional service, nor to one who is envious of Me."
- ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ
- mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati
- bhaktiṁ mayi parāṁ kṛtvā
- mām evaiṣyaty asaṁśayaḥ
- (Bg 18.68)
"For one who explains the supreme secret to the devotees, devotional service is guaranteed, and at the end he will come back to Me."
- na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu
- kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ
- bhavitā na ca me tasmād
- anyaḥ priyataro bhuvi
- (BG 18.69)
"There is no servant in this world more dear to Me than he, nor will there ever be one more dear."
Prabhupāda: This is decided, that if we present this Bhagavad-gītā as it is, ya idaṁ param? What is that? Ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyam (Bg 18.68)?
Pradyumna:
- ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ
- mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati
- bhaktiṁ mayi parāṁ kṛtvā
- mām evaiṣyaty asaṁśayaḥ
- (Bg 18.68)
Prabhupāda: Asaṁśayāh. So he becomes immediately recognized by Kṛṣṇa. If you preach Bhagavad-gītā as it is, immediately you become recognized. Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69). So one has to understand it perfectly well and then preach, then his life is perfect. And what Sañjaya says? Yatra yogeśvaro?
Harikeśa: "I am the Self, O Guḍākeśa, seated in the hearts of all creatures. I am the beginning, the middle and the end of all beings. Of the Ādityas I am Viṣṇu, of lights I am the radiant sun, I am Marīci of the Maruts, and among the stars I am the moon. Of the Vedas I am the Sāma-veda; of the demigods I am Indra; of the senses I am the mind; and in living beings I am the living force, knowledge. Of all the Rudras I am Lord Śiva; of the Yakṣas and Rākṣasas I am the lord of wealth (Kuvera); of the Vasus I am fire (Agni); and of the mountains I am Meru. Of priests, O Arjuna, know Me to be the chief, Bṛhaspati, the lord of devotion. Of generals I am Skanda, the lord of war; and of bodies of water I am the ocean. Of the great sages I am Bhṛgu; of vibrations I am the transcendental om. Of sacrifices I am the chanting of the holy names (japa), and of immovable things I am the Himalayas. Of all trees I am the holy fig tree, and amongst sages and demigods I am Nārada. Of the singers of the gods (Gandharvas) I am Citraratha, and among perfected beings I am the sage Kapila. Of horses know Me to be Uccaiḥśravā, who rose out of the ocean, born of the elixir of immortality; of lordly elephants I am Airāvata, and among men I am the monarch. Of weapons I am the thunderbolt; among cows I am the surabhi, givers of abundant milk. Of procreators I am Kandarpa, the god of love, and of serpents I am Vāsuki, the chief. Of the celestial Nāga snakes I am Ananta; of the aquatic deities I am Varuṇa. Of departed ancestors I am Aryamā, and among the dispensers of law I am Yama, the lord of death. Among the Daitya demons I am the devoted Prahlāda; among subduers I am time; among the beasts I am the lion; and among birds I am Garuḍa, the feathered carrier of Viṣṇu. Of purifiers I am the wind; of the wielders of weapons I am Rāma; of fishes I am the shark; and of flowing rivers I am the Ganges. Of all creations I am the beginning and the end and also the middle, O Arjuna. Of all sciences I am the spiritual science of the Self, and among logicians I am the conclusive truth. Of letters I am the letter A, and among compounds I am the dual word. I am also inexhaustible time, and of creators I am Brahmā, whose manifold faces turn everywhere. I am all-devouring death, and I am the generator of all things yet to be. Among women I am fame, fortune, speech, memory, intelligence, faithfulness and patience. Of hymns I am the Bṛhat-sāma sung to the Lord Indra, and of poetry I am the Gāyatrī verse, sung daily by brāhmaṇas. Of months I am November and December, and of seasons I am flower-bearing spring. I am also the gambling of cheats, and of the splendid I am the splendor. I am victory, I am adventure, and I am the strength of the strong. Of the descendants of Vṛṣṇi I am Vāsudeva, and of the Pāṇḍavas I am Arjuna. Of the sages I am Vyāsa, and among great thinkers I am Uśanā. Among punishments I am the rod of chastisement, and of those who seek victory, I am morality. Of secret things I am silence, and of the wise I am wisdom. Furthermore, O Arjuna, I am the generating seed of all existences. There is no being—moving or unmoving—that can exist without Me. O mighty conqueror of enemies, there is no end of My divine manifestation. What I have spoken to you is but a mere indication of My infinite opulences. Know that all beautiful, glorious, and mighty creations spring but from a spark of My splendor. But what need is there, Arjuna, for all this detailed knowledge? With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe."
Prabhupāda: That's it. This is greatness. So we should not simply be satisfied God is great. We must try to know how great He is. Then our God consciousness will be fixed up. It's all right?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: It's very beautiful.
Prabhupāda: That people are not interested. Only officially chanting "God is great," that's all. These are the... You try to understand. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the Vedānta-sūtra. Go, inquire, be inquisitive. Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). One should be inquisitive. That is human life. And as soon as you become inquisitive, you become aware of God more and more, then your devotion increases. That is wanted.
Kartikeya Mahadevia: They are very good friends of mine. So I am going to him only. Maitreya Muni is also there, he is also there.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. She came to see me twice, Mrs. Patel. She is very nice...
Kartikeya Mahadevia: Very devoted. Her father is my father's friend, Mr. Pota. He was chairman of the Gold Control Board in India. Handlooms are working very nicely. That side of textile, which are made by hand, they are prospering like anything because...
Prabhupāda: They have to remain naked.
Kartikeya Mahadevia: No, khādi is available. There is no problem.
Prabhupāda: Available is everything. If you pay, everything is available. Therefore they say, "If you pay, I can supply you tiger's blood." If you pay, everything is available. People have lost completely interest in spiritual life. They have lost completely.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Enclose this quote.
Maṇihāra: "ISKCON has generated many community farms like New Vrindaban, providing the ideal atmosphere of a busy, yet peaceful village, fully devoted to spiritual progress. Swami Prabhupāda has also established the first Kṛṣṇa conscious gurukula in the West, a primary school in Dallas, Texas, for one hundred boys and girls between the ages of five and fifteen. Soon after its success, many such gurukulas have sprung up all over the world. Aside from teaching reading, writing, mathematics, geography, etc., the gurukula teaches the child how to cultivate God consciousness. Once a year members of ISKCON journey to the Society's international headquarters at Śrīdhāma Māyāpur, ninety miles north of Calcutta, and the birthplace of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. It is the site of a ten crore rupees international Vedic village comprised of community farming projects, high-class gurukula school, free medicinal facilities, and handloom weaving center. An institute of Vedic studies is proposed to be established at this site. Other major ISKCON centers in India are in Vṛndāvana, Bombay, and Kurukṣetra, the site of a three-crore rupee international Sanskrit university. This project will be sponsored by Alfred Ford, a nephew of Henry Ford. This will be the cultural..."
Prabhupāda: Nephew, nephew of Ford, that's a fact. Alfred is from the daughter's side. So the present Mr. Ford, his nephew, certainly, because daughter's side. His mother is the daughter, granddaughter of Henry Ford. Alfred's mother is the granddaughter of Henry Ford. Therefore the present Ford is the maternal uncle of Alfred.
Prabhupāda: It is a great fortune that Bālajī is there in your home. Take full advantage and simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Simple. Then everything will come automatically. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam.
- teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ
- bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam
- dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ taṁ
- yena mām upayānti te
- (BG 10.10)
This is the very easiest method. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. Sit down as much time as you can devote. The Lord is at your home. It is a great fortune. So do this, both, all family together. Yes. And I have seen, you are fortunate enough that you have got good wife and good children. That is a great fortune. Nobody is against you. Everyone is favorable. Oh, that's a great opportunity. In some family the wife goes another way, the children goes another way. That is very disturbing. But you are so fortunate that everyone is just obedient to the head of the family. So utilize, whole family, this simple method. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Sit down before Bālajī. You are fortunate Bālajī is there. Do this. Then we shall talk further.
Prabhupāda: I am everything at that time. There were some students, but they were not any active. I was doing everything. That League of Devotees means I am everything. I wanted to organize with this Prabhākāra Miśra and others. But they were not interested to be...
Hari-śauri: Not to become Vaiṣṇavas.
Prabhupāda: No, to devote whole time. They were... Just like Prabhākāra comes still. But if you ask him to do full time work, that he'll not do. Therefore I did not initiate others. He was initiated, Haridāsa. But they were all learned scholars, Sanskrit.
Hari-śauri: Do any of them come now? Do any of them come now apart from Prabhākāra?
Prabhupāda: Hmm? No, they are, they have gone in the... They are practicing as medical men. They were students, medical students. Now they are practicing.
Hari-śauri: They don't come to see you or anything now?
Prabhupāda: Sometime they came. Long time it is passed. That was in 1956 or '55. No, '54.
Hari-śauri: In Jhansi.
Prabhupāda: So, twenty years past. More than twenty years. You can speak of twenty years history. What is that? (end)
Prabhupāda: (aside:) Stop now. Don't divert attention.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is a letter from Śrī Ambarish Sarkar, General Secretary of the Nadia District Congress Committee. "I had an opportunity to visit the Śrī Māyāpur Chandrodaya Mandir on the 12th August, 1975. It is absolutely a religious institution. Jayapātāka Swami has devoted all of his efforts and endeavors to organize and propound the sacred name of Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. I'm impressed by his charming manner and strength. Although it is a religious institution, this organization has performed many social services. Many poor and destitute families have had an opportunity to work and at the same time they have become worshipers of Lord Śrī Caitanya. To engage these workers, so many industrial centers have already been started, such as handloom cloth, printing, etc. I wish this organization, with its help of the local people, all success."
Prabhupāda: We're not only chanting, we are giving them work. We are trying to become self-sufficient, the same idea of Gandhi's village organization, so they may not come out from the village. They'll be satisfied, village economics. That we are doing.
Prabhupāda: Haṁsadūta, Haṁsadūta?
Hari-śauri: Haṁsadūta?
Prabhupāda: The Ceylon is educated and if they are receiving, why not open a branch?
Hari-śauri: (continues reading) "He recently returned home after almost 3 years in India. My husband and I could see the awareness and maturity in him gained from his experiences in working with the Indian people. He learned first-hand about a different culture and it certainly has enriched his life. In our minds we can compare our son's life to the life of a Catholic monk or a religious Jew of the Hasidic sect. Do I think that my son is brainwashed? I can best answer this by answering the question, is our whole society not being brainwashed daily by the advertisement media? Liquor, smoking, pornographic movies and literature and which is worse? And what about the children who are being educated by the violence and killing on T.V.? I prefer that my son is devoting his life to the love of God and the service of humanity, a rare endeavor in this age. Since I know that my son has voluntarily chosen the Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement to exercise these rights and that he can leave it whenever he wishes I cannot see how the term 'brainwashing' can be applicable to this movement. I sincerely believe from my contacts with many devotees that they are happy and have found fulfillment by loving and serving Lord Kṛṣṇa, God. This may not be my wish for my life but my son has chosen it for his, and I whole heartedly respect it."
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes. (Bengali conversation) (end)
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Jagadīśa: From the time tulasī worship is over until the time of greeting the Deities.
Prabhupāda: How long it is?
Jagadīśa: That's an hour and fifteen minutes. Altogether they have japa time amounting to...
Prabhupāda: And who... They will... The small boys, they can devote so much time?
Jagadīśa: Well these are not small boys. These are...
Prabhupāda: Oh, teachers.
Jagadīśa: At least ten years, nine, ten years old.
Prabhupāda: Still...
Devotee: Nine years old to fourteen years old.
Prabhupāda: They should be engaged in chanting, not sit down and japa. That will not be possible for them.
Jagadīśa: The problem is that some of the boys are fourteen, fifteen, or thirteen. They should chant japa because they are required to chant sixteen rounds a day. Many of them are initia...
Prabhupāda: Sixteen rounds, it requires, utmost two hours, two and a half hours.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: In this old age-eighty-one years I am—I am working day and night just to preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and...
CID Chief: This is absolutely a service to God and humanity. Whatever tendency you have... Whatever comes out of your mouth, word, becomes a religious... It is written, out of which you write books. Out of the produce... From the proceeds of that book, you constructed a... It is wholeheartedly towards the God. Whole life is devoted to God.
Prabhupāda: And for these books, as author, if I would have taken royalty, my daily income would have been one lakh, fifty thousand. I don't take a single farthing. Whatever two cāpāṭis they give, that's all.
CID Chief: Then if that had been the objective, so much of this (indistinct) not would have come in reality.
Prabhupāda: I have no appetite also. (laughs) I do not eat too much. Whatever, one or two cāpāṭis, they give, I take. That's all. This is my royalty.
CID Chief: But any... How these politicians, they react to this in America? Do they...
Prabhupāda: There also... Here. Here people are suspecting that I am getting money from CIA, and they are also suspecting that I am cheating people and getting money.
Rāmeśvara: This is a devotee making part of the armor for Arjuna. Each time they make an outfit, they do a very careful drawing. Then from the drawing, they make the actual equipment or armor.
Prabhupāda: And how devotedly he is working. That is the..., that "I am..." How devotedly he is working. That will elevate him. He's very attentively serving Kṛṣṇa. This is advancement.
Rāmeśvara: They are working, minimum, twelve hours daily just on the dolls.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They do not become tired. Kṛṣṇa conscious work is so nice, nobody becomes tired. He wants to do more. Duralage hurahuri. (?) Competition. This is spiritual.
Rāmeśvara: This is one devotee who is painting dolls of the demigods.
Prabhupāda: Aiye, aiye.
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, these people come from Muscat. That's where I went last month. (break) (Hindi)
Rāmeśvara: ...supervises all the work.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he should be engaged for propaganda.
Satsvarūpa: I've given that argument, and people have said back, "Oh, he didn't say he was God." They say... He said that...
Prabhupāda: No, you are advertising, "Ramakrishna Avatara." "Bhagavan Ramakrishna." "Bhagavan Ramakrishna." Everyone is God—then why you are after God? You remain. You are servant of your wife, your prostitute. Then you are also devotee because everyone is God. A prostitute-hunter is also devotee because he's devoted to the prostitute and prostitute is God. Then why you search out another God? Hm? Everyone is God. Why you search out another God? Why you bring Ramakrishna God? Better remain satisfied with your prostitute, your dog. (pause-talking in background) That Dr. Sharma has given very good (indistinct)?
Satsvarūpa: Yes. Of all commentaries his is the best, including Rāmānuja and Madhva.
Bhavānanda:
- ye yathā māṁ prapadyante
- tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham
- mama vartmānuvartante
- manuṣyāḥ pārtha sarvaśaḥ
- (BG 4.11)
"Everyone follows My path in all respects." So even if I worship the demigods, I am worshiping ultimately Bhagavān. Kṛṣṇa says, "Everyone follows my path in all respects."
Prabhupāda: That is not the meaning. The meaning is: "Everyone is searching after Me, but they, unless they come to Me, they will search one after another position."
Brahmānanda: Within the courtyard?
Prabhupāda: Not courtyard. Within the boundary, compound. The ramma badhi, vaihama badhi, merde badhi, purusdera badhi,(?) four different courtyards. And who cared for city life in those days? Nobody. Everyone was satisfied in village. General people, they would not come to city. Only servant class. What business they have got from the city? Because their main income from the field, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. What they have got to do with the city? In the city, big, big zamindars, personally they had nothing to do. They are managers and sircars(?) were collecting money. That's all. And their extra money, they're constructing Ṭhākura Badhi,(?) temple, just like that Mullick's Ṭhākura Badhi, and festival going on. That was aristocracy. They devoted their money for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What is that? You have seen the Bengali?
Brahmānanda: Yes. This is being reprinted? Gopāla Kṛṣṇa Prabhu is doing very nicely in printing.
Prabhupāda: Hm. He has got good engagement. (break) ...his magazine.
Prabhupāda: Because they have no valid philosophy. It is simply official. They have nothing, no knowledge, no nothing, simply that dress and cloth. That's all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like the original... When Jesus was there and he had twelve disciples, they simply gave up everything and traveled with him and tried to preach. So they were renunciates, living simply whatever they could take, nothing more, and devoting their lives to God. But the followers later on, more and more they added the degree of sense gratification, till now you can't see any renunciation at all within their order.
Prabhupāda: No, they are drinking. They are having homosex. They are encouraging homosex, giving man-to-man marriage. You know that? This is going on. Doing everything nonsense.
Girirāja: Actually their leader...
Prabhupāda: And they are concluding that they cannot stop committing sins and Jesus Christ will take account for them. Therefore it is very good religion, that "We can do whatever nonsense we like, and if we keep our faith in Jesus Christ, then we are saved." Pāpa-buddhiḥ, nāmno balād pāpa-buddhiḥ. Great offenders. So what news?
Prabhupāda: Otherwise how could I do?
Surendra Kumar: Sir, Your Divine Grace, to be very honest, I told him in his presence that "You know that we Indians are not honest and earnest about anything. If these people have given up their life there and they are devoting and dedicated their life, let us utilize them so that..."
Prabhupāda: Where is Tamāla? That boy? That black boy? What is his name?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, Ghanaśyāma.
Prabhupāda: Ghanaśyāma. About his activities?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want me to read it?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, it is very interesting, how they are fighting against odds to introduce our movement. There is a written description.
Prabhupāda: Why he should feel? If you have to work, you have to work for Kṛṣṇa.
Bhakti-caitanya: Actually we are taking a burden from his back...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhakti-caitanya: ...just to go here and there. And I am picking up much responsibility between...
Trivikrama: One other point is Raj Kumar Gupta, that man who is so devoted. He's now sitting in Delhi.
Prabhupāda: So you combinedly do. That will be...
Bhakti-caitanya: I am sure that if... With your blessing... Because Gupta is very influential in Delhi, and Delhi, we will also be able to get the men sitting in the rear(?) if we want, because he has so much influence in the ministry now.
Prabhupāda: Who?
Bhakti-caitanya: That Mr. Raj Kumar Gupta. He is the right man in the ministry now. That Kedaranath Swami, the mayor of Delhi, he always... He is a fast friend. So if we have influential man... Now he has shifted his office from Chandigarh to Delhi, so I have to get the all ordination for Chandigarh from him, through him. So if he will introduce me to his friends in Delhi, and Delhi people mind if I will take our money to Chandigarh, so what I was wondering is collect the money from Delhi from all over, put in Delhi and Chandigarh together, all the north India.
Trivikrama: There will be no shortage of money. There's so much... Just yesterday a man gave five thousand rupees. And he wasn't even a big man. Small man. Big man, we can get. There's so many.
Bhakti-caitanya: (laughs) Yes, practically because we have no small big man.
Prabhupāda: So it is very good premise. So why Gopāla should be sorry that "I go"? Is there any reason?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, he'll feel that he's worked in Delhi before. He developed the Delhi temple. If he feels he can work with it, they'll be...
Prabhupāda: If he can also join, what is that?
Prabhupāda: Then we began to... I used to call his wife didi, as my sister, eldest sister. That man was old. At that time he was at least seventy years old. And his wife died, so he had no children, so he married again. Old husband, young wife, but the relationship was so nice, great devotee and the wife devoted.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even though the husband was very old and the wife young.
Prabhupāda: Formerly even eighty years old, they used to marry.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even?
Prabhupāda: Eighty years old.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Eight-years-old girl.
Prabhupāda: Eighty.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Eighty.
Prabhupāda: There were many cases.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What... I mean, what is the reason behind that? Isn't that very old to get married?
Prabhupāda: If he had no family member, he would marry again. (pause) But it was subject of criticism.
Prabhupāda: Because later on he retired—he was a pleader—so whole day and night, simply devotee. Sometimes he would offer obeisances to the Deity. Actually he was old man. He'll fall asleep by... And he would remain in that two, three hours.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Two or three hours? Wow. Wow. Completely devoted.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. And daily he would go to the Ganges.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was his name, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: His name was Nanda Dulal Phaini(?). So yesterday I was thinking of him, and I said it in my... I am being purified by thinking of him. All of a sudden.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, the whole atmosphere... Because we were children, we were going here and there, the neighboring hoods (neighborhoods), all houses... Everyone devotee.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Must have been a wonderful atmosphere.
Prabhupāda: Wonderful. We do not find such atmosphere now. Even maidservant, servant. Their character was not very good—still devotee(?). And this was the opportunity.
Prabhupāda: Childish. What dragon will help?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The whole article is more or less... It's not really worth reading the whole thing. It's mainly about that they're here to stay. It mentions Hare Kṛṣṇa. It says, "After nearly a decade of this ferment, the underlying question is whether these new groups will last. The answer appears to be that most of them, though faced with high attrition rates and continuing obstacles to survival, have retained a small but sufficient core of devoted followers and are acquiring the resources needed to continue their work." It mentions that there are a number of court battles, including members of the Hare Kṛṣṇa. Ours is the first group they mention.
Prabhupāda: That, it does not mention about the Transcendental Meditation?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they never mention. There's nothing... They don't get taken to court, Transcendental Meditation, because there's really no... They don't demand anything of their followers. They just say, "Every day take off fifteen minutes and sleep," or something.
Śatadhanya: They have no philosophy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's nothing. There's nothing to anger anybody. Simply the main thing is that it's a big hoax. So now it's being investigated by the...
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. It's being investigated by a Congressional subcommittee in America now, Transcendental Meditation. But there's no individual parents getting angry because it doesn't change anything.
Prabhupāda: No.
Prabhupāda: That I say.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Today the one question was asked in the class that "Isn't it true that as one makes advancement, māyā will put up so many obstructions, even more as the devotee advances?" So I answered by saying that "In the case of a pure devotee, māyā realizes that there is no need to challenge, because māyā is the servant of Kṛṣṇa. So when someone is fully devoted, just like Śrīla Prabhupāda, then māyā cannot touch, and she knows that he will use everything in Kṛṣṇa's service, so there is no need to put up any obstacle, and all facilities are given to the pure devotee for using everything in Kṛṣṇa's service."
Prabhupāda: So I can stop?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Gurukula boys are waiting to greet you with kīrtana. They can come in?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Anyway, don't be sorry.
Vrindavan De: No, no. It will be (Bengali).
Prabhupāda: So what you have paid for you coming and going? What is the amount?
Vrindavan De: (Bengali)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: From the Mathurā station?
Prabhupāda: No, no. From Calcutta to here. Ticket, what is?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Something like about... The ticket's about fifty-six...
Prabhupāda: (break) ...the modern kīrtana. Kīrtanāt... (break) "We shall improve our economic condition for more and more sense gratification." And that is the mistake. People are trying for that. Kāmasya nendriya-prītir lābho jīveta yāvatā (SB 1.2.10). Yāvad artha-prayojanam. Whatever money is required for maintaining, that's all. And as soon as we increase the so-called standard of happiness by sense gratification, then there is trouble. That is going on all over the world. They want money. They're not satis... "More money. More money. More money." Why more money? If you can live comfortably with certain amount of money, be satisfied in that way. Why more?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How much can you eat more than your share?
Prabhupāda: We have seen many persons... The other day, he was our member. One Mr. Agarwal? Very rich man. He committed suicide falling down from the bridge to the Ganges. What is that? Very rich man. The happiness cannot be attained in that way. Happiness is in Kṛṣṇa. It is so sublime that... Dhruva Mahārāja went for kingdom, and he performed austerities. When he saw Kṛṣṇa he said, "I don't want anything." Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: (CC Madhya 22.42) "I came to ask You something, but I am now fully satisfied." That is happiness. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir... yayātmā supra... (SB 1.2.6). You want to satisfy your ātmā. So that can be satisfied when you are fully devoted to Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise simply by material wealth, increasing your economic position, that is not... They do not know it. The European civilization, they are struggling very hard-colonization, industrialization, this... (end)
Prabhupāda: High place. There is no need of big see.(?) Deity is small Kṛṣṇa or big Kṛṣṇa, the same thing. When Kṛṣṇa was child on the lap of His mother, the same Kṛṣṇa killed Pūtanā. And when He was killing other demons in His young age, the same. Avyaya. He does not change. Acyuta. These are the names of Kṛṣṇa, you'll... So it does not make any difference. So you have got small Deity. Very nicely... So you can bathe them nicely, decorate them nicely, give Them... And big Deity will be difficult to handle. Better keep this Deity and increase the devotional. That will be... More time devoted for taking class, for cleansing the... About Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam consider. That is main business.
Prabhupāda: Is that all right?
Hari-śauri: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Gurukṛpā will also remain here.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gurukṛpā should also remain here. Yes. Actually he is quite... He's quite devoted to Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma as well as to Your Divine Grace. He likes the two brothers very much.
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes he likes to go out to collect for Them. Is that all right?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So starting tomorrow, we will go in front of Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma for a half hour every day?
Prabhupāda: Or less time.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Or less time. As you feel comfortable.
Prabhupāda: Let us try.
Prabhupāda: Things are improving.
Guest (1): Yes, they are. There is no worry as far as the management of the temple and farm is concerned.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mahāṁśa is doing nicely.
Guest (1): Both are very much dedicated and devoted.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Tejiyas is doing nice?
Guest (1): Tejiyas, his movements are too many. That is a problem.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says Tejiyas moves around too much.
Guest (1): He's not fully fixed up to the farm. But as far as temple now, it's very much regulated. Now after Śrīdhara Swami has come, it has been all perfectly streamlined.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīdhara Swami is doing nicely.
Guest (1): Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's good. The management is good. That is very good. Usually that is always a problem.
Guest (1): No, management side of both the farm and the temple is good. It's really, I should say, remarkable achievement.
Pañca-draviḍa: How about Mr. Polareddy? Does he show interest? Does he come?
Guest (1): He's very much devoted, dedicated.
Pañca-draviḍa: Maybe in the future he'd give the front land to the temple?
Guest (1): That is a...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's not interested, he's not... (break)
Prabhupāda: Unless one is rogue, he would not like it. (laughs)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Running down the road? (laughter) Śrīla Prabhupāda, shall I continue with this report? Another thing that's beginning to happen is that the professors, after getting your standing orders and after teaching with your books in their courses, they are starting to become very friendly to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. For example here is one example cited. He says, it says here, that "Daśaratha Prabhu went straight to the chairman of philosophy who happens to teach in that field, and that chairman also bought a copy of Monograph 2..." which is Svarūpa Dāmodara's science books; these are also becoming important, "...and promised to review it. During this time, Śeṣa was meeting with Fritz Blackwell, an Asian language specialist who has used Kṛṣṇa book in his course as a textbook and has known devotees for four years. Fritz's exchanges with Śeṣa were so intriguing that we shall simply list them one by one. The two passed in the hallway, not knowing each other, but later, when they met, Mr. Blackwell said, 'Oh, I knew you must have been with ISKCON. No one else would be so nicely dressed.' Śeṣa had corresponded with Mr. Blackwell previously and sent him copies of 'The Hare Kṛṣṇa People' and 'Spiritual Frontier' movies to review for a special national survey of audio-visual materials on new spiritual movements. Fritz related that ISKCON's response was the quickest among his many suppliers for the project, and when he told his wife the Hare Kṛṣṇas were the first to send their films, she simply replied, 'They would be.' Śeṣa acquired advance copies of Mr. Blackwell's reviews on the two films, which we'll enclose with this report if possible. Introducing Mr. Blackwell to the Readings in Vedic Literature prompted him to say, 'I will definitely use this in my course next year.' He also agreed to send a review by December. Fritz told Śeṣa, 'It's amazing that you've come today. We're just going to start our study of Kṛṣṇa tomorrow. Can you come and speak in my class?' Śeṣa immediately complied. Fritz introduced him as an authority and personal colleague, so the students listened attentively and took notes. Śeṣa used slides to supplement his academic glorification of Lord Kṛṣṇa. Interested, the students asked many questions such as 'Why is Kṛṣṇa blue? What is prasādam?' Fritz was very pleased with the whole thing and gladly helped Śeṣa make arrangements to get another Caitanya-caritāmṛta standing order in the library." They already had one order, and they got another order. "On the same campus, Śeṣa sold a preview order..." Anyway, then they sold some more books. That's just an example of the way professors are beginning to be more and more helpful, and they're actually becoming devoted to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They've been very much impressed with the Library Party. The Library Party devotees come in suits with ties. They look very proper. They're scholarly. The books are the most prestigious, scholarly presentations of the philosophy available. And these people, they first ordered the standing order. Now they're ordering course textbooks. And now they're starting to teach your books in the courses, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They're preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness right in the classrooms. So automatically, when the see the devotees, they are very much attracted and friendly with our devotees. They want to take prasādam. So the scholars, who are the most intellectual community in America, are becoming devoted now to Your Divine Grace and this movement.
Bhakti-caru: Śrīla Prabhupāda? (Bengali) (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I read this letter? It's from Tuṣṭa Kṛṣṇa Swami.
Prabhupāda: You have read already.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that was Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa. This is Tuṣṭa Kṛṣṇa, from New Zealand. He says, "Dear Śrīla Prabhupāda..." (break)
Prabhupāda: When you gave me that milk?
Bhakti-caru: This morning, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: What time?
Bhakti-caru: Quarter past eight.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I met him at Bhaktivedanta Manor, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when we were there. He came a couple of times, very nice gentleman. He's working without any salary. Simply he asked for a room, and he wants to devote his life. Real gentleman. He's more British than any Britisher I've ever met.
Prabhupāda: Forty years?
Girirāja: Well, he's about, I think, sixty years old now. And when he was a young man of twenty he was the aide-de-camp of the viceroy. And I think he was also the secretary to the governor of Punjab when it was under the British.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He met with Gandhi and all of these other leaders.
Girirāja: Then, just after I left... Before that, I spoke to Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, and he was arranging for Mahāṁśa Swami and Mr. Polareddy to meet the President of India to invite him to be the chief guest because Mr. Polareddy of Hyderabad knows the present President. And then, so far as the publicity for the opening, we felt that we should actually fix up the chief guest first, because if some big person like the President comes, that will be an important part of the wording of the invitation and the other publicity.
Prabhupāda: So finishing?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Construction?
Girirāja: Well, the building was not finished. I think that... I mean the inside of the temple and the theater and the restaurant and lobby of the guesthouse and many of the guestrooms will be ready, but the marble work on the domes was very behind schedule. So when I was there only about ten or fifteen percent of the marble on the three big domes was up, and the... Of course, the three domes at the entrance were almost ready. So the three main domes could be finished by the time of the opening, but there will be marble work that has to go on after the opening.
Prabhupāda: It will never be finished. When the date is being fixed?
Girirāja: Well, we fixed it for January lst and begin the ceremonies on December 29th, which is Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī's Disappearance Day. And... The ceremonies begin a few days before the actual installation of the Deities. So those ceremonies, or yajñas, those will begin on Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta's Disappearance Day, which is December 29th, in about six or seven weeks. And then, a few days later, on January lst, which is the English New Year's Day and Sunday, that will be the actual installation ceremony, and thousands of people will be coming. And we also discussed that there should be very opulent prasādam distribution, and different arrangements for receiving the people and kīrtana and darśana and festival activities.
Prabhupāda: Still work is going on.
| Page Title: | Devote (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 08 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=104, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 104 |