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Delhi (Conversations 1977)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Letter to Russian -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Still, we have to reply them with this copy.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay, very good. So I should take a dictation?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay.

Prabhupāda: Who has signed that?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's from Mr. Yekinow. I had met him in Moscow. He's now in Delhi with the Russian

Prabhupāda: What he is?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He is a chief of the Russian agency that imports books into Russia.

Prabhupāda: Well, so address him.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. "Dear Mr. Yekinow."

Prabhupāda: So it has come from Delhi?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So give the Delhi address, embassy.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I have told them that we don't have any Bhaktivedanta Book Trust offices in Bombay because I did not want them to visit our... I told them our Bhaktivedanta Book Trust office is in Bombay, because then he would have said, "I'll come and visit you in your office" and then he would have come to the temple. So we don't want to show any connection with ISKCON for Bhaktivedanta Book Trust.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Because then they'll find out it's religion and they will stop it at once.

Prabhupāda: As soon as he reads the book, he will find, according to them...

Letter to Russian -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The hand set-up is not...?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but in Delhi I could not find any. The only one in Delhi who has mono is Times of India, and it's very difficult to get it done. So I had no alternative.

Prabhupāda: In Calcutta there are many.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I found out that in Allahabad there are a lot for Hindi. But then we had to have somebody over there.

Prabhupāda: Allahabad.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, one devotee or someone who will supervise that. I suspect Bombay will be much more expensive, but I want to check. Tomorrow I'll check it.

Prabhupāda: Allahabad, we are going.

Roof Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hmm? Hare Kṛṣṇa. What is your full name?

Mr. Gupta: Rabindranath Gupta. I'm not a Bengali. I belong to Delhi. I've lived eight years in Bengal, Citra and then Durgapur.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So you can speak in Bengali.

Mr. Gupta: I can understand (exchange few words in Bengali).

Prabhupāda: Bengali is not at all very difficult.

Mr. Gupta: No, not at all. Once upon a time I could read and write. But it's just out of touch.

Prabhupāda: The Calcutta Marwaris, they speak very fluently. Yes.

Mr. Gupta: Fluently. Being in railways I've had about eight cross-country transfers. Rajkot, Ajmer, Bombay, Ahmedabad, Lohar(?). So I know as much of Gujarati and Marwari too.

Prabhupāda: Rajastani?

Mr. Gupta: Rajastani. Hindi is the mother tongue for Rajastani.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hindi is understood everywhere. (break) ...Bhagavad-gītā, what you have learned?

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Jñānī murkha. (break) (Hindi)

Guest (1): I have been to Poona where there were some lectures on this Swami Sradhananda. It was fifty years past to his death. So there were some lectures.

Prabhupāda: Sraddhananda, they're Arya-samājis.

Guest (1): Arya-samājis he was, follower of Swami Vivekananda. He was shot down in Delhi, and so... Forty years and there was some ceremony, all these things.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) How it will be fortune? Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā (BG 9.11). (Hindi)

Guest (1): They think like this. (Hindi) So they'll end in the same way.

Trivikrama: So how are we going to change?

Guest (1): How? Mām anusmara yuddhya ca (BG 8.7). Taking the name, believing in full in the name of the Almighty. And we have to try our level best to uplift the society, to make them educate, to guide them, provide them, to bring them on the right path. This is only way.

Trivikrama: Bhagavad-gītā says we need the guru.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, space is also.

Dr. Patel: I'll tell one of the friends to get me some water on that day. I'll take bath here. (laughs) I had gone to Allahabad once only.

Prabhupāda: Only?

Dr. Patel: We have not had the chance to go there. Delhi also. I've never gone to the Delhi also. Therefore it was calling me. I have seen Delhi in 1939. After that, I have never gone.

Prabhupāda: My family life was in Allahabad, 1923 to 1936 continually. I used to come to Bombay from Allahabad for business. And I was staying in that hotel, Empire Hindu Hotel. Yes, very nice. At that time it was very nice.

Dr. Patel: That is the hotel where Lokamane(?) Tilak died. He was staying there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is modern standard, very nice hotel, still good hotel.

Dr. Patel: Maharastrian brāhmaṇas keep very good hotel, still good hotel. They are not as greedy as the Gujaratis. That is a fact.

Prabhupāda: No, they are following principle. Now the Gujarati are also... And Maharastra, as good. This material civilization, meat-eating, has spread like anything. Here we see, signboard: "Beef shop." We have seen.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Not all. But wherefrom they are becoming pregnant?

Hari-śauri: What is the need for any bābājī to get sterilized, anyway?

Prabhupāda: Not to get... Sterilization, they are being forced. The government understand that who is making them pregnant, these ugly widows. They are not coming from Delhi, government servant. (laughter) Bring them, paramahaṁsas. When I was coming, so many paramahaṁsa, they advised me, "Sir, why you are going to foreign country in this old age? You are in Vṛndāvana. Just go on with your bhajana." The bābājīs gave me advice. And actually, I was seventy years old.

Girirāja: They don't know Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: No, they don't care for. They say, "Bhagavad-gītā is not for us."

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So first of all where is the necessity? I have been talking...

Mr. Asnani: Why create a problem? Today the problem is not before us.

Girirāja: The thing is that the same constitution we've had since the beginning, and we've always got the exemption...

Prabhupāda: Yes. And why you are bothering? He's going Delhi?

Girirāja: Even last time the Assistant Commissioner...

Mr. Asnani: Who is there in Delhi, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: This Gopāla Kṛṣṇa.

Mr. Asnani: Ah, let him go.

Prabhupāda: But let him go, but I think that why unnecessarily bother?

Mr. Asnani: Today there is no problem for us.

Girirāja: Yes. She's only the Assistant Commissioner. Last time also the Assistant Commissioner was...

Prabhupāda: What is the position...

Mr. Asnani: To which one you made, Kapoor?

Girirāja: No, that was Bhave? There's so many Assistant Commissioners.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But I used to work in New York outside all the time, but I didn't find it so difficult.

Prabhupāda: No one will. It is not at all difficult. The principles, the regulation we have started, it will automatically bring them to that stage.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: When one chants sincerely and attends all the temple programs, then automatically one...

Prabhupāda: (sharp rapping sound: light switch flicking on and off) No electricity. Stop this fan.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Stop the fan? Śrīla Prabhupāda, I may not be going to the Kumbhamela. I'm going to stay in Bombay and later on go to Delhi and Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. There is Gurudāsa and there others.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Because there's lot of work to do, and I'm printing lot of books now, so...

Prabhupāda: No, you stay here.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Let her come.

Hari-śauri: She was just trying to put them on.

Prabhupāda: So there is no woman here?

Devotee (1): No.

Prabhupāda: She can help her tilaka. Call Pālikā.

Jagadīśa: Tilaka is already on.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (pause) I think Mathura train also goes early in the morning. You have taken before?

Jagadīśa: Not from Bombay.

Prabhupāda: Two, three train goes, one Frontier Mail, one Deluxe Express and another-three trains for Delhi. It takes, altogether, from here to Delhi, nineteen hours. And Mathura, still two hours less. And from Mathura it is six miles. There are buses, ricksha.

Hari-śauri: There's a woman coming now to put on her neckbeads. (end)

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh. Then that... I was... He got ten thousand rupees.

Gurudāsa: He gave it to me yesterday. I have it right here.

Prabhupāda: What about Saurabha?

Devotee (1): He called last night from Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Oh. He's there in Delhi?

Devotee (1): Yes. He just came back yesterday. He'll be coming here soon.

Gurudāsa: Now, previously the budget... I figured it out with the ones who are cooking. You wanted puris and halavā and subji, something like that. But we didn't have enough before. So I was going to make puṣpanna. Is that all right? Or would you rather... Now, with the ten thousand rupees...

Prabhupāda: Puṣpanna for visitors also? No, they will have objection to take anna. They'll take puri, śāk, halavā.

Gurudāsa: What do you want?

Prabhupāda: Purī, śāk, halavā is... It can be distributed to anyone. Puṣpanna, some may take, some may not take.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Or if he wants to see, he may come. He may find out.

Gurudāsa: Yes. He should come to see you. I'm arranging for your car to come from Delhi. We've made two roads of steel, of steel pieces. That's what they're using in the Mela on the sand. And I've gotten permission from the head of the Mela to take some of that. So we're making two rastas, one especially for you, where shamiyana comes out, and it doesn't look like a road, but when you come in, just untie that, and your car goes in. And then another one behind. So that will be able to keep any vehicles that come. One bus came already. Haṁsadūta Mahārāja's one bus.

Prabhupāda: He has come.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Gurudāsa: They still do.

Dr. Patel: They're better than the horses, don't get tired earlier. From Vṛndāvana to Delhi the camels were running. They used (Hindi). I don't know what they call it in Bengali.

Prabhupāda: My Guru Mahārāja purchased two camels. I did not... I do not know what happened, but he purchased.

Gurudāsa: I think Tīrtha Mahārāja was fighting with someone else over them.

Prabhupāda: No, it is long ago.

Dr. Patel: We have a story in Mahābhārata that all Ataravart, he can do. The Hastināpura in just when Abhimanyu was going for fight. In those days they were using camels.

Gurudāsa: In Rajastan they use widely.

Dr. Patel: Rajastan is a desert.

Prabhupāda: No, Vṛndāvana quarter there are many camels.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Shower I was taking.

Dr. Patel: All these boys take cold water, required from them.

Prabhupāda: I never used hot water. In India the Delhi is the coldest part. In my business life, in the hotel I was taking cold water. Everyone was surprised. "How you can?" In Saharanpur, in bitter cold, I was taking cold water early in the morning.

Dr. Patel: This will be extreme cold in river. I have taken bath in the confluence four or five years back. It was not winter, but then it was... It is cold throughout the year because snow melt and keep water very cold.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...gentleman will have a flag in the home.

Dr. Patel: During the times of Moguls you have seen all the pictures with the flag.

Prabhupāda: That was the system. Our Pandit Jawaharlal was keeping one flag also, always.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh. And you are going to Vṛndāvana?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's going to Kumbha Mela first.

Jagadīśa: ...has business there to be...

Prabhupāda: You are not attending Kumbha Mela. You are going to Delhi from here.

Jagadīśa: I'm thinking about going to Kumbha Mela first, for a couple of days.

Prabhupāda: Anywhere, this is our main program. Print books as many as possible and distribute. This is our main program. All other programs are secondary. So with this aim in view, work all together. Our Caitanya-caritāmṛta is unique literature. For Caitanya-caritāmṛta, we are above any ācārya. There are four ācāryas: Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī... But our Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's legacy, ācārya's, that is unique. Anarpita-cariṁ cirāt karuṇayāvatīrṇa kalau. Here the Supreme Personality of Godhead is personally teaching-ācārya. Anarpita-cariṁ cirāt karuṇayāvatīrṇa kalau samarpayitum unnatojjvala-rasam. The highest topmost bliss, madhurya. These dealings of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, madhurya-rasa, is the contribution of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. All other ācāryas, they could not give up to this. All other ācāryas, they contributed up to friendship, no vatsalya, neither madhurya. That is this contribution of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: Usually stopover in New York.

Prabhupāda: No, another northern flight from Paris and from London it goes directly to Los Angeles.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, it's possible but it's very uncomfortable.

Prabhupāda: (sic:) Unstoppage, eh?

Rāmeśvara: Nonstop. I flew from London to Delhi nonstop.

Prabhupāda: That is eight hours.

Rāmeśvara: Eight hours.

Prabhupāda: Let them oppose. You do your duty. Introduce this Vedic culture in your country. It will be... In future they will appreciate. There will be history how Vedic culture was... And the whole nation will be benefited—from material side. And spiritual side there will be..., what to speak of? These literatures, this art, this strength,(?) this philosophy... Everything wonderful.

Room Conversation -- January 10, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: But it's very close. Just in this city, Bombay, only twenty thousand papers difference. In Delhi, bigger circulation than Times.

Prabhupāda: Competition.

Rāmeśvara: Very competitive. And it's overall much more.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it's a fine paper. Therefore we decided.

Prabhupāda: Please see that there is no printing mistake.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we won't.

Prabhupāda: That is...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I'm giving Bombay address; Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, Hare Kṛṣṇa Land, Juhu, Bombay; Bhaktivedanta Book Trust; and the Delhi address. Delhi temple also.

Prabhupāda: No. Why Delhi temple? They are not executing?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Because we have a good stock of books over there also.

Prabhupāda: No, that is another thing. But they have no department for executing. They will be embarrassed when they receive order.

Room Conversation -- January 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. He can send paper?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, what I had earlier written to him was we can import paper and I can give the money into construction. And because I have... I know the Joint Chief Control of Imports and Exports in Delhi, and he told me he would give me a license to import paper duty free. So we can import paper which you can pay for in Singapore, you follow? I'll give you the dealer, everything. And the paper will come. We'll print...

Prabhupāda: You supplied paper to Japan, I think.

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So you can supply the paper.

Rāmeśvara: And now, whenever we print books in America, we supply paper. It's much cheaper if we buy it.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We do the printing. I buy all the...

Rāmeśvara: The printer will mark it up if he has to spend his money for paper.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. In India also we buy the paper ourselves. We buy the paper and give it...

Prabhupāda: That is good. Supply paper.

Room Conversation -- January 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: In India, Bombay is best. There are many offset printing houses.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Like in the Bengali Back to Godhead they did in Calcutta, they spent eight paisa more per copy printing than Bombay, and quality was much inferior. So now I said, "You compose over there..."

Prabhupāda: Typeset is Delhi good, but offset-Bombay.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So what I've told them, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is they can get the composing done in Bengal, Calcutta, then send it to me, like I get the Hindi composing done in Vṛndāvana and mail it to Bombay for printing. So it is cheaper and good quality, plus we have the whole department set up. One boy, Pippalai, he just takes care of technical aspects. And we have a shipping department all set up now. Two boys work just on the shipping.

Prabhupāda: So supply department keep in one place.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And we have very good...

Prabhupāda: In other places it is...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't have the men, and we have good...

Prabhupāda: No. They supply all supplies. The orders should be supplied from one place.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We're getting up to two months' credit on printing books. Everything is nicely set up.

Prabhupāda: But keep your credit.

Room Conversation on 1976 Book Scores -- January 16, 1977, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) ...French, German, Dutch, Swedish, Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, Japanese, Chinese. (Bengali) We want. (Bengali) Person to person... (Bengali) Huge organization. (Bengali) ...Bhaktivedanta Book Trust... (Bengali)... stock, distribution, salesmen control. (Bengali) ...Delhi paper... (Bengali) We have got substance. (Bengali) So it is very encouraging, this report. What else?

Rāmeśvara: Now the next two reports. First of all, for the month of December there's the ratings for the whole Society. So in the top ten, number one was New York, Rādhā-Dāmodara, with $170,000. (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Give him some book to read.

Gargamuni: Where's the Bhagavad-gītā?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (Indian man): I should have some basic knowledge about.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Bhagavad-gītā gives basic knowledge.

Room Conversation -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: There are many Indians. Practically Indian.

Brahmānanda: Yes, everything. Tamāla, when he came there, he said that Mombassa was like Bombay...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: ...and Nairobi was like Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they are living nicely. Why this government disturbing them?

Brahmānanda: Well, that is their policy.

Prabhupāda: They cannot manage nicely. The Africans are not so qualified. The Indians, they are managing business, everything.

Brahmānanda: Now Amin in Uganda, he's now inviting so many Indians to come as teachers, doctors. He's getting them from India now.

Hari-śauri: He just kicked them all out.

Brahmānanda: Now he's getting them back again.

Prabhupāda: Such a rascal. They are thrown away from the established condition; so now he wants them back. In one sense it is right, that these rascals may not imitate him.

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Pṛthu-putra: Yes. I have met also life members saying things like this recently here.

Prabhupāda: So simply hear them. That's all. One big barrister, he was my friend. He is dead, M. C. Chatterji. He's a very big barrister. He used to charge sixteen thousand rupees for one appearance. So he was stating about when..., that he came to Vṛndāvana, and he met one boy, and "He asked me some sweets, I gave him sweet. Later on, when I was coming back to Delhi, I saw that boy was running on the train." He said. Such a big barrister, he said like that. "Oh, he was so..." Posturing like this. What can I say? "Kṛṣṇa as cowherd boy was running after you in the train?" This is going on. Another friend's wife, she came to Jagannātha Purī. So Jagannātha Purī, those who are rich men, they are allowed to go near the Jagannātha. So that lady said that "While I was circumambulating, Jagannātha was snatching my cloth." Jagannātha became so much attached with that blackish woman that He began to snatch his (her) cloth. So many stories I know. So what can be said? "Why did you not remain with Jagannātha? Why you came back?" This is going on. So I have got experience of many such stories. Kṛṣṇa as cowherd boy was running with his train. I have to take. And Jagannātha was snatching her cloth. They are very poisonous things. I was never fortunate with such incidences. I am simply trying to carry out the order of my Guru Mahārāja. That's all.

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: (laughing) The people who speak the local language can't read it. So the signs are useless. Anybody who is educated enough to read it can read...

Prabhupāda: English language understood. English... They speak in English. In big, big cities like Bombay, Calcutta, Delhi, even the girls, young girls, they would like to speak in English. They don't like to speak in their... At home even, with their father and mother, they're speaking in English. Especially in Bombay, everyone speaks. Not now. I have connection with Bombay since 1927. In 1927 I first went to Bombay. So how many years? Fifty years? I have seen it. They speak in English. They are sending their children where education is given by medium, English. High-class men, they send their children to learn through medium of English. There is Calcutta, St. Julia's College, near our college near our temple.

Satsvarūpa: Hindu College?

Prabhupāda: No. St. Julia's. All Indian students, all very rich man's sons. I sent my sons to English, St. Mary's High School and St. Teresa's school. Learned English very nicely. Scottish Churches College. I was educated in Scottish... All our professors European, Englishmen and Scotsmen.

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: Not Delhi?

Prabhupāda: No. Delhi has become important on account of capital.

Satsvarūpa: Politics.

Prabhupāda: Government.

Satsvarūpa: International government.

Prabhupāda: From business point... Now they're making Delhi industrially developed. That is new attempt. But Calcutta, Bombay, Kanpur is old... Calcutta is manufactured by the British. Bombay also manufactured. But Kanpur is older, very old. Kanyakubja. That Ajāmila upākhyāna?(?) Ajāmila?

Hari-śauri: Ajāmila.

Prabhupāda: Ajāmila story, that was in Kanpur. Very, very old city. Kanpur, Mathurā, they are very old cities. Allahabad, Prayāga. Prehistoric. Manipur. (end)

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Still, we don't know we'll live for fifty years.

Prabhupāda: That is another difficulty. For general calculation a man can live up to a hundred years in this age. So in the middle, stop all rascaldom-compulsory. Now take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because you are persistent to continue your rascaldom, all right, do it up to this point. And then stop all this. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is a concession for continuing the rascaldom. But if he's so fool that he will continue the rascaldom as Jawaharlal Nehru did and Gandhi did and Hitler did and-up to the point of death—let him do. What can be done? They will continue their rascaldom. Mūḍhaḥ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Gandhi, unless he was killed by his own men, he did not retire. Jawaharlal Nehru, when he was just... There is no other way. He was in Dehra Dun, still Prime Minister, and he was brought very quickly from Dehra Dun to Delhi, and after one hour he died. All these politicians... And it is learned that he has become a dog in Scandinavia. You cannot say, "No," because you do not know what he has become. But tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. He must have changed the body. So where is your science? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). The prakṛti will change your body. Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). And He's giving vivid example. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). And Kṛṣṇa is speaking. I shall not believe in Kṛṣṇa's word, and I shall go to some rascal? We are not so fool.

Room Conversation -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now arrange for big festival. There is a program, Manipur. I want to start in that small state varṇāśrama idea. That is my dream. Small state it can be done, brāhmaṇa, kṣatri... So when you arrived in the airport?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we first... The airplane that we came on landed in Delhi, and we went down to Bombay yesterday morning. So we stayed the day in Bombay.

Prabhupāda: You have seen the progress?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Going on all right?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but I don't think it will be finished by... They say Daśaratha, but I have my doubts.

Prabhupāda: Then what can be done?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is your opinion?

Brahmānanda: Not the finishing work. There is so much marble finishing work.

Prabhupāda: The marbles, they are working or not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. They're working. I think there must be at least one hundred workers going full time.

Prabhupāda: Marble.

Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: That man from Delhi said that he thought you were an incarnation of Vyāsadeva.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Any devotee in literary career, he is to be understood... Just like our Vṛndāvana dāsa Ṭhākura. He is described as incarnation of Vyāsadeva because Vyāsadeva wrote Bhāgavatam and he wrote Caitanya-bhāgavata.

Pradyumna: Vyāsa-pūjā.

Prabhupāda: Vyāsa-pūjā. Vyāsa-prasādam. Unless one is blessed by Vyāsadeva, he cannot write transcendental literature. So now you have very good cook. Kīrtana is going on. It is Vaikuṇṭha. Maintain this status very nicely. You can. You are... From the very beginning you are... Do it very nicely. Tatra tiṣṭhāmi nārada yatra gāyanti mad-bhaktāḥ. If devotees chant always, that is Kṛṣṇa or Vaikuṇṭha. Tatra tiṣṭhā... Tatra tiṣṭhāmi. Yatra gāyanti mad-bhaktāḥ. They must be pure devotee and always talk about Kṛṣṇa, chant about Kṛṣṇa. Then it is Vaikuṇṭha. What about this generator? Is it going to work or not?

Jayapatākā: I'm not sure. I don't know who was working on that today. I just got back myself. There was some... They're hooking up, I think, the wires.

Prabhupāda: It must work.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Formerly they used to be, because that was not restaurant. Restaurant in Indian style, they were selling paraṭā. In Delhi there are many. So those who were interested with paraṭā, they'll sit down and they will supply first-class paraṭā and vegetables.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. That's not there anymore. In Bombay the only good restaurant... There is a Marwari restaurant where they have this dower(?) system. But there's only one, and it's in Kalpadevi, so hardly anyone will go there anyway. No office people go there. Only the Marwaris go there.

Prabhupāda: No, Bombay there are so many restaurants.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But they're very...

Prabhupāda: Dirty.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That restaurant, mostly for drinking tea and pakorā.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And Indian government will be convinced that we are not CIA.

Hari-śauri: If we come ask for asylum, then it's obvious.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that "Americans, they are taking refuge in our law." Do it very nice. Immediately do it.

Ādi-keśava: So I will investigate this in America. I think before I go back, I'm going to go see some people in Delhi.

Prabhupāda: This Home Member can help in Delhi.

Hari-śauri: Gopāla Kṛṣṇa can give you all the names.

Prabhupāda: Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, with Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, Home Member will be very glad. He's in sympathy.

Ādi-keśava: I can, perhaps, stop in Delhi...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa will save us. But the asylum in India with the government help, that will be very nice.

Ādi-keśava: So we'll investigate more in Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Immediately, first duty.

Ādi-keśava: Right.

Prabhupāda: When Gopāla is coming? He'll be able to...

Hari-śauri: Twenty-sixth or so, he's coming.

Ādi-keśava: Another question is...

Prabhupāda: We can take help from Indira Gandhi if we bring recommendation from the embassy.

Room Conversation -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think the book sales will tremendously increase this year in India especially.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Yes. And India, if we are popular, oh, then government will see.

Hari-śauri: There's tremendous potential for book distribution in India.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say, take five lakhs and print and distribute. All languages.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Someone was giving me the report today that in Delhi the boys go out, and each man sells eighty to a hundred rupees' worth of books.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They go out in a party, just like in America.

Prabhupāda: Now we have got Hindi books we can sell very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They hold kīrtana and then distribute.

Prabhupāda: You called Vāsudeva? He has already ordered two thousand each.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Immediately.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So you purchase some copies.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. This is yesterday's Times of India from Bombay. When we get to Bombay we'll go to their office. We can buy back issues, I think. I don't know... I'll find out who... Abhirāma gave me this. "Published from Bombay, Delhi, and Ahmedabad."

Prabhupāda: Now we have got a sound position.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe it's in some other... I have the Sunday Statesman.

Prabhupāda: In the first page they have given, eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. First page of Times of India.

Prabhupāda: And big heading?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. "Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement is Bona Fide Religion." You couldn't pay for an advertisement this good.

Prabhupāda: So my mission is now successful.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: It is as good as The Statesman.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, it's actually more prominent than The Statesman, I think. Yeah. There's no mention. There's no mention in these other papers.

Prabhupāda: So you are also coming to Bombay?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I'm also thinking to go to Delhi to make that inner pass for possible visit to Manipur.

Prabhupāda: That may be suspended for the time.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh. So shall I...?

Prabhupāda: We have to do so many things always.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But at the same time traveling may not be so...

Prabhupāda: Fruitful.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Envious we don't care for. We don't mind. Never care for them. I didn't care anyone, any times, even my Godbrothers. Neither I care just now. I'll go on with my... Why? We are doing our duty. That's all. Under higher authoritative order. Have no fear. It is not personal gratification. So arrange for Manipur. We shall go. Let us go.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So I'll go to Delhi tomorrow and...

Prabhupāda: Go.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...arrange with the Home Minister. Minister of Home has to give the permit.

Prabhupāda: And then come back to Bombay?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Then I'm coming to Bombay.

Prabhupāda: Now work very strenuously. You are all young men, and somehow or other, dead horse, you have given life. Otherwise the last fortnight I was thinking I am dead now. I was thinking like that, 'Now life is finished." Life can be finished at any time. That is not wonderful. To live, that is wonderful. If my life is finished, that is not wonderful. Nobody will lament. "Oh, he was old man, eighty-two years old." But if I can live for some days more, that is wonderful. If I die, that is not wonderful.

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: LCs?

Bali-mardana: Letter of credits. I have to open a letter of credit for the full amount.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So if he can get permission... Gopāla has to get permission from Delhi that instead, fifty percent will be paid in the form of these milk products.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He just has to get permission from Delhi. That's all. Once he gets permission, there should be no problem.

Bali-mardana: Yes. I can work it out with Gopāla. It is no problem.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: From your end you can arrange.

Bali-mardana: There's no difficulty. They will be glad to export ghee.

Prabhupāda: So wherever we have got center in India, just like this Mahesh Pandit, if we supply them the chānā dāl and puri and halavā and nice, what is called, puṣpānna, his great-grandfather will come to eat.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: You are all intelligent.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Svarūpa Dāmodara Prabhu was mentioning that he held a conference in Delhi. Maybe he could tell you about that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, I went to the All-India Institute of Medical Sciences. It's a big medical school in India. So I spoke in the... They have a department called Biophysics. So I presented our philosophy, science in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The head of the department was... His name was R. K. Mishra. So he's actually quite well known international figure. Fame.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He had a lot of grants from the United States. From Europe also.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He had grants, money coming from the United States to support his research. So he was on opposite side, but we had a very interesting discussion. And he told me later on that he was a keen follower of Śaṅkarācārya. I said, "Why?" because I was speaking, "There are innumerable lives." I was giving examples that we are not as one, but there are innumerable forms of life depending on the level of consciousness, giving examples. scientific examples. So he answered that traditionally his forefathers, his parents, his grandfathers, became followers of Śaṅkarācārya, so he became some sort of addicted to it, but he said he's not one hundred percent follower of Śaṅkarācārya.

Prabhupāda: Individual. Where there is question of mixing? Śaṅkarācārya's mistake is that the spirit is a mixture, and in māyā state, they're divided. Is it not? So when the division is finished, then it is spirit. But Kṛṣṇa does not say that. He says in the past we are individual, at present we are individual, and in future we shall continue to be individual.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This is their civilization, that "You are not killing? You are cruel." (laughs) Just see. Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." That is cruel. How can you pull on this civilization? But this is their religion. So what kind of persons they are?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There's some misunderstanding. When I came from New York, there was one Christian minister. He was going to Bangalore, India, but I was all the way from New York to Delhi with him. We sat together side by side, and since he was minister, he was interested in what I was doing, so we started talking about philosophy and the science of the self. So I asked that "Mostly we are told that in Christianity, many people don't believe that there is soul in animals." He said same thing, and he was a minister. In animals, plants...

Prabhupāda: Big animal. He's a big animal. Animals... He is also animal but big animal. That is what he... That I have already said, small animals. Śva-viḍ... What is that? viḍ-varā... Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). He's a puruṣa. He's a very exalted person, but he's a paśu, animal, because he does not know anything about spiritual life.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1977, Mayapura:

Girirāja: Because, I mean, if your health permits and if you could come every day, then we could arrange very leading people for all of those days...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Girirāja: ...and it would enthuse them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bombay is good place for propaganda, for making any movement popular.

Girirāja: Yes. People are very modern and advanced. In Delhi they're all...

Prabhupāda: Servant of.

Girirāja: Too much afraid of the government.

Prabhupāda: Servant class. They are not independent. (break) So I am very seriously thinking about organizing your institute. So how much hopeful it is?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: How much hopeful? I think there's a great potential.

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Jayapatākā: Śrīla Prabhupāda? My mother left this morning, and she wrote a letter to you. I'd like you... If I could read it... "Śrīla Prabhupāda: I am sorry to hear of your illness. Jayapatākā tells me swift changes in temperature cause many illnesses in Māyāpur. A place so beautiful must have its thorns. May your recovery be soon. It was auspicious for me to have met you. Not having seen my son for so long, finding him in the midst of God's blessings at ISKCON with a spiritual master of such great repute was humbling in its magnitude. Perhaps in some small measure I can help parents understand what their children are into and weaken their weapons. This visit will be shared with others. It was propitiously enjoyable. As far as fund-raising, there is a seminar on new methods I am trying to get to, but Kṛṣṇa seems to be pulling me back. Perhaps tomorrow I will be able to go to Calcutta and Delhi. I will be corresponding regularly with Jayapatākā. In a few months I plan to move to California. You have taken good care of my son. You have brainwashed the cobwebs of materialism (laughter) and elevated his soul. Your goodness radiates to all who meet you. May God bless your body with good health. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jayapatākā's Ma."

Devotees: Haribol!

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees:Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Jaya.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Hari-śauri: ...for myself? That boy who was with me from Australia, I've sent him back this morning. He's gone back this morning. There is actually two or three major things going on there, so I have to try to get back as soon as possible. There is a purchase of the farm, eight hundred acre farm, which comes up in about seven or eight days, and then we have to consider whether to buy that building in Sydney. You've seen that picture already. And also there's a big court case coming up in Melbourne. The deprogramming thing is going on there also. But this time the court case is being pressed by... It's a civil case. The police wouldn't take it up. So the girl who was kidnapped, we are pressing charges, but through her against the parents. So this is going to be a big case also. So that's coming up in the end of April. So I have to see what the presentation is like and get more information from Ādi-keśava and make sure that we will press it very strongly, the whole issue. Someone just sent a newspaper clipping about the whole thing. I expect to be going to Delhi in about two days, to try to speed up the process of getting a re-entry permit. Then once I do that, I can go on. (long pause) (break)

Girirāja: This evening, the chief guest is going to arrive at about a quarter to seven.

Prabhupāda: Who is the chief guest?

Girirāja: His name is Dr. Dattrey.

Karttikeya Mahadevia: He's an (indistinct).

Girirāja: Yeah. He is supposed to be one of the leading doctors in India. Especially of heart, cardiology. So I also thought this would be a good night for Svarūpa Dāmodara Prabhu to make his presentation, so that this leading doctor can also attend that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I know that very nice. I want it may be possible for you.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Why it should be closed?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. You once told us in Delhi that if we could arrange to continue it throughout the year, that would be good.

Prabhupāda: You want to do that, then do it. I don't mind. Every week, you can... At least...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That means that we will have to send out regular invitation every week on a regular program to our life members.

Prabhupāda: It is all right, you do it. We have got so much subject matter for speaking.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So there will be an initiation on Rāma-navamī.

Prabhupāda: Rāma-navamī is upavāsa up till the... Go to observe fasting up to the evening.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So moon.

Prabhupāda: Sunset.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And religiously-minded.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, I find almost everybody appreciates Śrīla Prabhupāda so much, especially in Bombay. Anybody who knows about Śrīla Prabhupāda, they highly appreciate, especially these scholars. But in Delhi it is very different. People are very close-minded.

Prabhupāda: And government servant. After all, they are servants. In Bombay, they are in big, big business. They are limited. The government servants, they are limited. They are important so long they are on the post. Otherwise, they have no importance.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like Indira Gandhi.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Personal importance they have...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: From the newspaper I see that the United States is praising a lot this election.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The democratic campaign. But from our point of view, these are not the solution. Temporary. Temporary relief. Daṇḍya jane rāja yena nadīte cubāya.(?) You know this? Daṇḍya jane rāja yena nadīte cubāya. I have spoken several times in... Formerly, the criminal was taken in the middle of the river and he was drowned. And when he was suffocating, he's held up. Then he, ahhh (takes deep breath). This relief is like that. That means as soon as he takes little strength, again, put again. Then daṇḍya jane rāja yena nadīte cubāya.(?) These rascals are like that. For the time being there is little relief: "Oh, we are now free from the leaders." And there is another hand is being created. Bābājī or something like that. Then again they shall put his... This is going on.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: From Delhi?

Hari-śauri: That I still have to decide. I'm going to ring tomorrow morning and see what the situation is at the consulate.

Prabhupāda: From Delhi you can go to Singapore. From Singapore to Sydney.

Hari-śauri: Yeah. There are direct flights also, that they come, Delhi, Bombay and then straight to Perth and then Sydney.

Prabhupāda: I left from Delhi to Bombay.

Hari-śauri: If you fly from Delhi, they come Delhi, Bombay, Perth, Sydney, like that.

Prabhupāda: Perth. Oh.

Hari-śauri: Yes. Instead of going to the Far East, they go straight to Perth. And then refuel and then go on.

Prabhupāda: So Perth is nearer.

Hari-śauri: Yeah.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: We can give nice instructions.

Girirāja: He wanted to arrange a meeting with Morarji Desai this week, but I told him that it would be better not to arrange anything until he comes back to Bombay in a week. But he gave me his phone number in Delhi if we want to contact him.

Prabhupāda: You want me to go there?

Girirāja: No, I think it's better... First of all, as you mentioned last...

Prabhupāda: If he comes, I'll come.

Girirāja: Yeah.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think that Bombay is very important, so Morarji Desai must visit here. And when he visits here, he is a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, so we can invite him to our temple. And at that time he can see you.

Prabhupāda: With his associates, invite him, give him prasādam.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That will be more impressive then. You should not have to go. The administrator comes to the guru. And if he won't come to you, then there is no question of his helping, anyway.

Girirāja: Right.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If he comes we shall speak on this.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: He said, "Now we must have rāma-rājya." He said, "That is why I must meet your Guru Mahārāja before I go back to Delhi tomorrow."

Prabhupāda: Yes. I can give him... (break)

Girirāja: So I told him I would meet him at the rally. They are hawing a rally at Shivaji Park. And he invited me to sit on the dais, but I don't know if this is a good idea for us.

Prabhupāda: Why not? He is honoring you.

Girirāja: Yes. So he said that he would ask the organizer that he should speak early in the program so that he can be free and come here as early as possible. So he is very serious. I don't think there will be any delay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is his name?

Girirāja: Ratan Singh Rajda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is his exact position?

Girirāja: He is a member of parliament from Bombay South, which is the most prestigious district, from Kalabha up to (indistinct), something like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He formerly helped us?

Girirāja: Yes. When Mattrey was, did that demolition attempt, so he was one of the leaders in the corporation. So he fought for us. In fact today also he asked if there was any trouble, because he still is also maintaining his position in the municipal corporation. So I think when he gets back from Delhi in a week, I might bring up some of our little problems.

Prabhupāda: That plan sentence.(?)

Girirāja: Yeah. And that road, that ten feet.

Prabhupāda: What benefit they will get?

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Let there be one institution for training Indian youth, for this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Mr. Rajda: That could be done.

Prabhupāda: You do it, and it will be wonderful thing. Do it. In New Delhi. Or in Bombay we have got now very nice building.

Mr. Rajda: In Juhu.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Cooperate with us. It is scientific. Last night our Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara presented very scientifically. We can challenge any scientist, any philosopher. So if you become serious, if you cooperate with us, this institution can set a great example, not only in India, but to the whole world. So you are so kind, you have come to see me. You have got desire. So let us take it seriously.

Mr. Rajda: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Correct.

Prabhupāda: It is serious, but nobody has taken it seriously. Bhagavad-gītā is popular book. Everyone takes the Bhagavad-gītā and says, "I am student of Bhagavad-gītā." It is very simple thing. And if the leaders of the society, they set example, others will follow.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: At least for one month.

Mr. Rajda: To one month. I am returning on seventh again here. Then I shall come here. Tomorrow I am going for Delhi, but on seventh I am returning. Seventh I will come here again.

Prabhupāda: So you come and let us (indistinct).

Mr. Rajda: And we can detail some letters for business.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Indian (2): So can I suggest one thing? We were discussing the meeting with Morarji Desai, so you can carry on the conversation.

Mr. Rajda: Yes, yes...

Prabhupāda: No let us first of all meet some of the subordinate worker. When they agree, then we will have...

Mr. Rajda: That meeting could be arranged any time. Whenever it is convenient to you, you can, we can talk to him.

Prabhupāda: No, I am..., my life is dedicated for this purpose. I am... It is convenient for me at any time. Otherwise, I am not keeping good health at the moment. Still, I have come. I am just trying even up to the last moment of my life, if I can deliver some good to these people. That is my determination. What is this life? Life will end today or tomorrow or day after. But if you live just to the point, that is the idea. Otherwise trees are also living thousands of years. What is the benefit?

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You have got small Hindi books?

Guru dāsa: Yes, yes. Some of those also are being distributed. Now also while I was in Delhi, on the way here, one ex-king approached a devotee about wanting to sell a place to us. He wanted to sell a house to our institution.

Prabhupāda: Where is it?

Guru dāsa: It is in Mount Abu. So they referred it to me. I went with the president of Delhi and I saw the house. And...

Prabhupāda: Mount Abu between Jaipur and Delhi?

Guru dāsa: Between Jaipur and Ahmedabad.

Prabhupāda: Ahmedabad. Yes, yes.

Guru dāsa: It is a very high hill station, very clean air. And the house is sixty-three rooms. It's a mansion. And one hundred acres.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Guru dāsa: And full of trees and jasmine flowers.

Prabhupāda: It will make nice scenery.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Bhavānanda: I think this side is no longer sore.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Striking on the bone, so for an old man striking on the bone is very harmful.

Guru dāsa: Everybody sends their well-wishes to you, in Vṛndāvana and everywhere.

Prabhupāda: Thank you.

Guru dāsa: They all pray for you. They are all well-wishing. When they heard you were going to Manipur, one man said, "Manipur is saved." He said that.

Prabhupāda: Wherever there is Kṛṣṇa, that is saved. So when you are returning?

Guru dāsa: I will be leaving here tomorrow. Then I am going to Delhi to get visa from India side to Poland, because it is better. And then I'll go. So... (offers obeisances to Śrīla Prabhupāda) Thank you very much.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Girirāja: I spoke to Mr. Rajda on the telephone this morning. So he has already spoken to the Prime Minister about your meeting, and the Prime Minister gladly accepted.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Girirāja: So he told him that you weren't able to come to Delhi now. So I told him that he should again speak to him that when he comes to Bombay, he can meet you here. So Mr. Rajda said that there is no difficulty in arranging that, and that he would speak to the Prime Minister today.

Prabhupāda: He wants me to meet there in Delhi.

Girirāja: No. He is going to arrange for the Prime Minister to meet you here in Bombay, at Juhu.

Prabhupāda: Immediately one copy send to Mr. Rajda.

Girirāja: Now Mr. Rajda is coming tomorrow for one day.

Prabhupāda: So let him meet me, appoint him, give him some time. Invite him for prasādam. With his associates.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Immediately inform Vṛndāvana, our Akṣayānanda, that this man should be very well received.

Girirāja: I was thinking that unless I go and bring him, he might be too busy with the political affairs.

Prabhupāda: So what you are to go? Where you want to go?

Girirāja: So what I was thinking, if you agree, is to go to Delhi for a few days, and he could introduce me to the pious members of Parliament, and then we could organize a whole group, and I could bring them there.

Prabhupāda: Do the needful. Go. At least, in India, there must be this spiritual institution. The whole world may take advantage of it. What is this cats' and dogs' race civilization? Is that civilization? Here is civilization, Bhagavad-gītā. Basic principles of civilization. So India should maintain this. People may... There are so many big universities. A student may go or may not go, but the university must be maintained. Because there is no student, therefore university closed. No. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness institution must be maintained for the benefit of the whole world. Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). They do not know how nature's law is working.

Gargamuni: These breezes are very nice here, better than, I think, in Māyāpur. Many breezes.

Prabhupāda: The sea breeze.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So why not take that place?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Our only problem was we didn't have men to keep there on a permanent basis.

Prabhupāda: If he wants, he can go.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a good idea. I can meet them in Delhi. I know those people.

Prabhupāda: Then do that.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. I met that swami who wanted to give...

Prabhupāda: Yes. He does not speak.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he writes.

Prabhupāda: So let us occupy that place.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And now that Trivikrama Swami is operating in Punjab with his party, it is good, because he can go there sometimes also.

Prabhupāda: So take that place.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. He does not speak.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he writes.

Prabhupāda: So let us occupy that place.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And now that Trivikrama Swami is operating in Punjab with his party, it is good, because he can go there sometimes also.

Prabhupāda: So take that place.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, now we will take it. It's a very good idea. So it is okay if we send him back. I want to get the First Canto, Part Two...

Prabhupāda: And as soon as we go to Srinagar I shall call. From Delhi to Srinagar...

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (1): Printed here. Banarsidass, Lucknow or Kanpur. These are the Motilal Banarsidass-Delhi, Varanasi and Patna. And money was given by America(?).

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We read in the papers today that there is talk that Sanjay Gandhi and his mother may run from the country, because the government has launched many investigations into the malpractices of Sanjay Gandhi. So the government has ordered the security on all the borders to be very tight.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All the airports now they are making special security, especially to check any politicians who might try to escape the country, due to being investigated.

Guest (1): Their passports are also taken away. That's what I have heard.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were, in themselves, the most exalted, and now they are treated as criminals.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In the Times of India you saw that starlight or side light or something, about Indira Gandhi. In today's paper, Indira Gandhi had gone to a ten-day function at one of the African embassies. She went with her daughter-in-law, and nobody even noticed her. Only fifteen minutes after she left the function did the host realize that Indira Gandhi had come. She went to a party, she stayed there, and she left and the host did not know that "Indira Gandhi is here." That shows how material nature changes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It also shows that actually she had no value, because one who is actually great doesn't lose his value simply by losing an election.

Prabhupāda: Vidvān sarvatra pūjyate. Vidvatāṁ ca nṛpatyāṁ ca naiva tulyaṁ kadācana.(?) She is not a learned man. She occupied the royal seat. That honor was so long there, the royal seat. And who will be honor her?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Her rule was "Might makes right."

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The afternoon is best.

Guest (1): Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (Hindi) (Indian enters) (Hindi conversation) So I am asking, you going to Delhi. (Hindi) You are the right person.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I was telling Prem Yogi that everybody is already asking for First Canto, Part Two. They are saying where is Part Two? I said it is coming up quickly.

Prabhupāda: Prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā śreya-ācaraṇam sadā. This is premame(?) jīvātmā. Prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā. (Hindi) Why people do not understand this philosophy? Making plans for welfare activities. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). (check this) Uru. Uru patim(?). Uru means (Hindi). Uru-dāmni. (Hindi) This is called gṛha. (Hindi) Expanded gṛha, and... What is called? It is concentrated...

Prem Yogi: Contracted.

Prabhupāda: Contracted. Contraction and extraction.

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And always smiling. Even if you irritate him, he will smile.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a fact.

Prabhupāda: Sometimes I have said so many strong words. That is my habit. But he is still very humble and meek. I never expected that he would all, reply me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes in Delhi I would go with him to some minister or something, and he would tell some story. I thought, "Why is he doing this story? He has no sense."

Prabhupāda: He is known to the ambassador, American ambassador.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. He took me there once. He knew him pretty well. But every time he would tell these stories.

Prabhupāda: Keath, Mr. Keath?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Keating, Kenneth Keating.

Prabhupāda: So he was very friendly with him. And he used to talk in his personal room. He made friends with him, his girl-friend. And she offered herself. "Please come in, in our park."

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He will take from Delhi?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The train? No, actually he can take from Bombay.

Prabhupāda: From Bombay to Kashmir direct.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Either direct or through Delhi. The Punjab Mail. I think there is a Punjab Mail.

Prabhupāda: Punjab Mail goes up to border of Kashmir.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So something like that. I mean we could fix that up.

Prabhupāda: No, as many books you can carry without any difficulty, you can take.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: On the plane. Okay. Maybe Guru dāsa should wait there for awhile. If Guru dāsa and I go together as a preaching team, we can conquer anywhere.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversation -- April 13, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: What?

Girirāja: Friday.

Prabhupāda: Friday.

Girirāja: And today the other M.P. should be coming back from Delhi. So if you like...

Prabhupāda: Invite all of them.

Girirāja: I can invite all of them. They're four very important M.P.'s, and they can all come. So if you take rest from one to two, then you can meet them at two.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Girirāja: You take rest usually from..., up to two o'clock?

Prabhupāda: No, up to three.

Girirāja: Oh, up to three?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So "The Honorable S.D. Chawan, Chief Minister of Maharastra.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Rajda: Last time we had talked about this, and in Delhi, actually, I was on the verge of arranging the meeting, but never here. But then our Girirāja telephoned me, and in deference to your health we didn't arrange that meeting in Delhi. When Morarji-bhai is coming here, we shall see that...

Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all you can talk. It is not expected that everyone will be able to understand. It is not expected.

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
kaścid yatati siddhaye
yatatām api siddhānāṁ
kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ
(BG 7.3)

It is not easy job. But still, some ideal institution should be there who are actually serious to understand. They may be given the chance. That must be there. In the university, when we were students, there were some postgraduate classes that no student was coming. But still, the university maintained that class, paying, in those days, 1,200, 1,500, salaries to the professors. They maintained that. So here there is no question of salary. Here the institution must be maintained, strictly following the principles of Bhagavad-gītā. It is open. It is not difficult at all. Just like Kṛṣṇa says the perfect life, how one can become perfect, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: (BG 18.65) "Always think of Me," man-manāḥ, "just become My devotee," mad-bhaktaḥ, "worship me," mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, "simply offer your obeisances unto Me."

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And I am unnecessarily spending five to six lakhs of rupees.

Mr. Rajda: No, this was not mentioned, never mentioned before me. I will definitely take it up when I go to Delhi. And then on 25th, the first thing I'll do...

Prabhupāda: No, we approached that Brahmananda Reddy.

Mr. Rajda: Reddy's not there. They are all gone.

Prabhupāda: No, before that I met him.

Indian (1): Now Your Grace will have to speak either with the prime minister straight, and he will swiftly done.

Mr. Rajda: No, that was the... The prime minister himself will nullify(?). No, he will immediately grasp what is the... 'Cause I have already talked...

Prabhupāda: When I was in Delhi, there was one day a meeting at Brahmananda's place, so I personally requested. So he noted down. That's all. So he's the chief man, home member.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Rajda: There was too much power struggle in those days. That is the main difficulty...

Prabhupāda: In Delhi...

Mr. Rajda: Everyone was struggling for his own existence in that power, in that... Some of the people...

Indian (1): Now we have got a government. The chief man of the...

Prabhupāda: Government.

Indian (1): ...the team, he is an intensely religious-minded man.

Prabhupāda: That is...

Indian (1): Delivering Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (Hindi) You take. There is. No. There is sink? There is sink?

Devotee: Here, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Here.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Indian man: Dr. Patel and myself, we are friends. I am also practitioner in Delhi. Dr. Ramam.

Prabhupāda: Oh, you are also medical man. Oh. (Hindi conversation) Prasāda-sevā. Not to waste. (Hindi)

Indian man: Of all souls, we are sinners.

Prabhupāda: Why sinners? (Hindi conversation)

Girirāja: Thank you. We will have to meet then.

Ram Jethmalani: Any time. You just let me know; whatever, any problems, I am yours.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. (guests leave) By feeding, how much one becomes obliged. (Hindi) You don't... Any gentleman, give him something. Give him prasādam.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He ate everything.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, everything. Very sumptuous, pleasing. They were hungry.

Conversations -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'd just like a point of clarification, 'cause I don't understand. What exactly is your engagement? I see that you're traveling all over India. What exactly are you going...? Has Prabhupāda told you to travel like this continuously, all over...?

Patita-pāvana: No, he told me to go South India and find some paṇḍitas.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And now you're planning to go to Delhi.

Patita-pāvana: No, no, Surabhī Mahārāja has asked me to do some press releases for the newspapers.

Prabhupāda: So Surabhī Mahārāja has asked. So you are conducted by Surabhī Mahārāja.

Patita-pāvana: Yes, Prabhupāda. At least I'm trying. If I have acted untimely, I...

Prabhupāda: And this is the result. This is the result, this disastrous article. You do independently when you like under the direction of Surabhī Mahārāja and create disaster.

Patita-pāvana: Well, he asked me to go down there. (break) (end)

Room Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bhakti-caru: "Earnest Plea to Nine Congress Chief Ministers. Charan calls for all the assembly elections. New Delhi, April 18th. The Union Home Minister, Mr. Charan Singh..."

Prabhupāda: Again election, as if election will change their quality. They remain... Let them remain as rascal, and simply by election, in place of one rascal, another rascal will improve it. This is the... Let them remain rascal, but get vote. So that is... That is described in Bhāgavatam, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). The population is śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra, and they are giving vote—another big paśu. That's all. This is going on. This is democracy. The voters are paśu, and he is selecting another big paśu. This is going on. The rascals, they do not know, "If instead of a tiger, we select one lion, then what is the difference? Simply name. The tiger was president. Now the lion is the president." And both of them—animals. Where is the man, human being? This is going on. And because they are paśu, śva-viḍ-varāha, they are happy: "Now there is lion. Now the tiger is driven away. Now there is lion." This is going on. Hm? Am I right?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kānā-māmā (?). If there is no māmā, blind māmā is all right. And who is that, this photograph?

Bhakti-caru: This one is Mr. Charan Singh addressing a press conference in Delhi on Monday, Charan Singh, Indian Prime Minister. (Hindi) "The passport of Mr. Sanjay Gandhi, Mr. Motilal, and Mr. Dhirendra Brahmacari, who runs a yoga center here, have been impounded. Official sources also said here today the necessary instructions have been issued in this regard to the concerned authorities."

Prabhupāda: Impound? Impound? What is the impounding?

Bhakti-caru: Cancelled today.

Prabhupāda: Where there is?

Bhakti-caru: New Delhi. (Bengali) "The instructions have been issued in this regard to Assam authorities.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Dwivedi: So even if you want to travel by car, then...

Prabhupāda: No, we can get our car from Delhi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Vṛndāvana. Vṛndāvana to Gwalior, how many miles?

Mr. Dwivedi: About a little over hundred.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, that's nothing at all.

Prabhupāda: So we can get our car from Vṛndāvana.

Mr. Dwivedi: From Vṛndāvana your car can come to Gwalior.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Mr. Dwivedi: And take you over there.

Prabhupāda: So why not make arrangement like that so that we can immediately take up? The buildings are there. We can begin work immediately.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And you are inviting Mr. Jetthi. So it is good opportunity. Let us...

Mr. Dwivedi: Failing that... If, somehow or other, he's not free... Because time is short, and if Jetthi says yes, then I have to go to the Chief Minister, because on previous occasion I told him I wanted him on a particular function. He said, "You do this. Then get this straight. Otherwise the president of our league(?) becomes expensive, so the expenditure will go over the head of the state." He showed me the way. So then immediately after, he said, "Yes." Then I, right from Delhi itself, I made a telephone call to the Chief Minister, and I said, "Such and such appealing, Mr. Jetthi is going, and I want to be present in the matter, and I request you also that you please participate."

Prabhupāda: Now the Chief Minister...

Mr. Dwivedi: Is Mr. Sukla there. Because then they'll have to make other arrangements.

Prabhupāda: Sukla?

Mr. Dwivedi: Yes. Camartan(?) Sukla.

Prabhupāda: Oh. He was a Kanpur man?

Mr. Dwivedi: Pardon?

Prabhupāda: He's a Kanpur man?

Mr. Dwivedi: No.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Dwivedi: Because if we are going to Mr. Jetthi, though there is plane service, but plane reaches in two days. Therefore I will not take up the plane. If he says yes, I'll have to take a car, see him, come back, return in about twelve hours' time, five hours to go to Delhi, five hours to come back, and another two hours just to meet him, straightaway only meeting him. Even if he says yes, then also, before I leave my place, I will once again confirm him on telephone that "I am stopping on such and such time, and you give me another two hours' margin if something goes wrong with the car."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How he will go there?

Mr. Dwivedi: Pardon?

Prabhupāda: Car.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mr. Jetthi will go to Gwalior by car?

Kārttikeya: No, they leave from...

Mr. Dwivedi: Gwalior... Gwalior I may be going by train, but it is just possible that I am asking this young man, my cousin, if he kindly accompanies me, to share part of my work, in order to get things done, if he can take his car. I don't know whether he can. So I am requesting him. If he can spare about a week's time, he'll be a great help because...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he will do the...

Mr. Dwivedi: ...the installation will...

Prabhupāda: He's young man. He can work.

Evening Darsana -- May 12, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I am insisting that "Take the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. You'll be perfect. Don't manufacture."

Indian man (5): You can't have that in authoritarianism. You get that in Delhi, where they feel that they are authority.

Prabhupāda: So become authority. That is... We said that. You become guru, authority. But you learn first of all as celā from the guru. And then you become guru. And without any learning, without any..., how become a guru? That is going on. Everyone is self-made guru. That has to be stopped.

Indian man (5): I feel, in this country at least, the young generation, the present generation, absolutely has got no base, religious base. And...

Prabhupāda: Religious base is there. There is scriptures. But they are not being trained up.

Indian man (5): They are trained, but after some time they...

Prabhupāda: They do not like to be trained up.

Indian man (5): What will happen to this generation after ten, twenty years?

Prabhupāda: No, if the rascals—again we have to say "the rascals"—the rascal leaders mislead them, there is no hope.

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Dūre parjakanam(?) tīrtham. If gaṅgā-jala is pure, it is pure here and there also. So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, tīrtha-yātrā pariśrama, kevala manera bhrama: "It is simply satisfying the mind." Otherwise, wherever there is Ganges, there is Yamunā, that is sacred place. Delhi also, sacred place. There is Gaṅgā. Anyway, so, we should take advantage of the knowledge of sādhu. And that is real progress. So catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtinaḥ. Four kinds of men, they come to God, Kṛṣṇa. God means Kṛṣṇa, not ordinary... Caitanya Mahāprabhu said,

ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva
guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja
(CC Madhya 19.151)

Kṛṣṇa also says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). To approach Kṛṣṇa is not so easy thing. After many, many births... We are rotating... (break) ...superintendent of this egglike aṇḍa, universe. It is all Brahmā's. And there are innumerable planets. That we can see. So we are wandering in all these places, sometimes down, sometimes up, sometimes in the middle, according to our karma, in different species of life, in different planets, in different position.

Conversations -- May 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh. Where is Gopāla?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He went back to Bombay.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was in Delhi. He was there day before yesterday.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was in Delhi only about two days ago. He'll be coming back here, he said, in about one week from now, one week to ten days.

Prabhupāda: You can keep here. When Mr. Bose has come?

Akṣayānanda: Mr Ghosh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bose.

Akṣayānanda: Oh. Just three days ago.

Prabhupāda: How long he'll stay?

Akṣayānanda: He wants to stay.

Conversation with M.P., Shri Sita Ram Singh -- May 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Sita Ram Singh: I came from Delhi. I got down here: "I want holy darśanas."

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Sita Ram Singh: He told me, "His lordship in good health..." "Of course, I won't speak to him, but simply I will have his darśana." Because you are still part human being... (Prabhupāda chuckles) Everyone wants a blessings of persons like you. What you have done and to remember these things... One should feel himself satisfied only after having your darśana.

Prabhupāda: You... You belong to Delhi?

Sita Ram Singh: No, I belong to Bihar. I come from the... (explains where he is coming from, about his family, political party, etc., difficult to understand) But what I want, I want darśana. And if you have got any sympathy for me, kindly...

Prabhupāda: I have got sympathy for everyone.

Sita Ram Singh: Ah, yes.

Prabhupāda: Unfortunately nobody cares to hear.

Sita Ram Singh: That's right.

Prabhupāda: They have their own program. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Blind men leading blind men. You realize that your Constitution is defective?

Sita Ram Singh: Yes, of course.

Conversation with M.P., Shri Sita Ram Singh -- May 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But who will induce him to give up?

Indian man (3): If he can... He can elect him.

Prabhupāda: He can do everything, but who will induce him to do?

Sita Ram Singh: I don't know when I shall go to Delhi again, but in case if I go, I will bear it in mind. But meanwhile, I shall humbly request you that some of persons of your mission should also go and should bring him here so that he can find out a time to come to this mission. And because after seeing the all activities of the mission he may be rather much more convinced of the fact that this resolution(?) should be abolished. It is a special case. For the mission purpose this should be abolished.

Prabhupāda: Missionary visa... (Hindi) That because he's Vaiṣṇava, he'll not go.

Sita Ram Singh: You see, seven lakhs of rupees are unnecessarily used every year.

Prabhupāda: And just now I have got news. We have got a branch in Ceylon. So we thought that instead of going back to U.S.A. or Europe, let him go to Ceylon and renew the visa. So I hear that they have been forbidden, not to issue visa to our boys.

Conversation with M.P., Shri Sita Ram Singh -- May 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Missionary visa... (Hindi) That because he's Vaiṣṇava, he'll not go.

Sita Ram Singh: You see, seven lakhs of rupees are unnecessarily used every year.

Prabhupāda: And just now I have got news. We have got a branch in Ceylon. So we thought that instead of going back to U.S.A. or Europe, let him go to Ceylon and renew the visa. So I hear that they have been forbidden, not to issue visa to our boys. (Hindi)

Sita Ram Singh: (Hindi) Rather, the Constitution is molded from bad to worse. This point should be repaired. I have got feeling for that.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Sita Ram Singh: When I go next time to Delhi I shall write letter. I have got address of this mission here. I shall write a letter here, and one of the representatives will go. I will give that...

Prabhupāda: No, you can speak to Mr. Vajpai. He is in charge of foreigners. (Hindi) (Hindi conversation to end)

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What about my house?

Bhavānanda: That money has just been received, and the plans have arrived from Delhi, but we are wanting an architect in Calcutta, competent architect to... Because we don't want to have anything go wrong in the middle. Ram Nrisinghatar(?) was saying that Mistri is interested in doing Prabhupāda's house. The house and gorgeous garden we have, with fountains and terraces and walkways, all around, before and behind the house, on either side, all enclosed and private.

Prabhupāda: Not yet begun?

Jayapatākā: They say there's no... Because we've just received the plan now from Saurabh, so the architect said there's no difficulty. Now he thinks we can begin right through the rainy season. We can work through the rainy season. There's no difficulty for that. If it was a big building, then in the rainy season we could not build.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How long it will take?

Bhavānanda: Six months.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By October, November.

Jayapatākā: (aside, discussion with Bhavānanda about building)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, I think you are tied to this planet by the love of your devotees.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Jayapatākā: He loves his devotees even more than his devotees love him.

Prabhupāda: All right. Then you shall begin. Jaya. (break) Daily or alternately, (makes bleating sound:) "Myaaaḥ, myaaḥ." And there is religious process that the head should be eastern side and the throat should be cut up. And when the animal dies, bifurcate, cleanse it and the skin and everything... And they have got cāpāṭi. Government subsidizes. So they cook at home the meat, and in market they purchase a cāpāṭi according to the family, one big cāpāṭi, two cāpāṭi. That's all. Our men who has eaten that cāpāṭi, they say it is very nice, very soft and digesting. Huge deserted country, but some stock, some spots, water. There are trees. They raise the cattle there. Eighty percent of the land, all desert. Or ninety percent. No, eighty. Say seventy-five. And because they have got now money, they are having big, big buildings, foreign cars, roads in the air, developing. And they're importing at any cost. From Bombay the best mango they are importing at any cost.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) I cannot tolerate this. (Hindi) You did not give me any report of seeing Shriman Narayan?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I went. Shriman Narayan was not in Delhi. I spoke to his secretary, and they said that Shriman Narayan's schedule was changed. He came to Delhi on the 13th to the 22nd. But he had told Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja that he would be there from the 25th to the 30th and I should meet him on these days. So he's gone to Warda and he'll be back on June 16th now.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Politicians.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, his firm words were how he would help us on those days.

Prabhupāda: Where is Girirāja?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's coming back on June 16th.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) That Shriman Narayan said that "You meet me in Delhi between 25th to 30th. I'll be there."

Girirāja: Yes.

Conversations -- May 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Rāmeśvara: We could do it in Los Angeles, but it would be more costly. Gopāla says that the main concern with the Hindi books is keeping the cost as low as possible so it can be sold in India.

Prabhupāda: No, plate-making, we have got all machine, so it will be cheaper.

Rāmeśvara: The price that he is getting in India is very cheap. He says that he can do twenty pages a day, composing. He's got one place in Vṛndāvana that he uses and another place in Delhi. So if each place is doing one different book, two books can be done simultaneously at twenty pages every day.

Prabhupāda: Twenty pages and cost?

Rāmeśvara: It costs about a dollar a page.

Prabhupāda: Where? In...?

Rāmeśvara: In India. To compose.

Prabhupāda: And there?

Rāmeśvara: If we did it in America, it would not be less expensive. It might be even more expensive, because you have to order a special font for the Hindi alphabet. I've gone over this with Gopāla, and he says that so far, he is able to keep up with the translators. He is just now in Bombay, giving some more books in Hindi to the printer. Bhāgavatam 1.3 and Bhagavad-gītā in Hindi are going to the printer. And the translator is just still working on the first volume of Second Canto. As far as printing, this printer in Bombay called Usha is giving us very good service at a very low price. So it's a good place to print the books, the Hindi books. (pause) There's no question of buying equipment in India because it's too expensive for us to buy our own equipment.

Prabhupāda: No, that is...

Rāmeśvara: Plus it will not be repaired when it breaks.

Conversations -- May 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They asked me what program can be initiated for the Bhaktivedanta Gurukula and Institute for Higher Studies. So I suggested that during some auspicious time in Vṛndāvana like Janmāṣṭamī we'll hold a conference, the Institute, when the... They told us it will be opened in July. So I suggested that we're coming, all the scientists together. We would like to present "Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, the Scientific Philosophy." We can invite scholars from Delhi and surrounding Vṛndāvana communities and...

Prabhupāda: Seminar.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Seminar. Conference. Yeah, we'll bridge the gap. And I think that would be quite appropriate. It will be quite appropriate, so that we can start propagating the message. Then I will... They're making a pamphlet for tomorrow. Dr. Sharma is going to print it in Delhi. So we can do some nice program in Bombay. And in a little time most of the schools in India are closed, so we can have nice conference in Vṛndāvana and have slide shows and... I'm going to see that film tomorrow. Messages that we have... And I proposed that we have nice form so that we present nice slide show and specific objects.

Prabhupāda: That will be very nice. Good idea.

Conversations -- May 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, we can invite some scholars. I saw two students from Delhi today. They are students. So I will start a program of the Institute here if they are interested.

Prabhupāda: Keep always busy. Make execution. Something must go on. We have got our guesthouse to provide respectable gentleman with quarter.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think it will also be good for the gurukula, to tie together, 'cause we have this Institute and gurukula together. That way, it will be more attractive for program.

Prabhupāda: Hm. So did you talk with Bhakti-prema Swami?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. I'm going to talk with him too.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Keep me forward. Yes. Keep always busy. That I wish to see.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa has arranged.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Everybody's attracted to go to the States nowadays. Even I was attracted. When I had a choice to go any place in the world 'cause I got a scholarship from Indian government, a Western scholarship. I could study in any part of the world, and I could choose any school I liked. And I told the interview board in Delhi... There was a man from England at that time. I told him that "I don't want to go to England." (Prabhupāda laughs) So he was little offended.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Nowadays all students, scholars, going outside means going to the States. That is the...

Prabhupāda: They give facility. No, I have got good respect for America.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, I'm sure that the scientists, some of the leading scientists, will accept.

Prabhupāda: I therefore say America is my fatherland. India is my motherland.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, in the normal dealing also...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just explain this.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The other day, when I went from Delhi to Calcutta in the plane, I happened to see that Dr. Chatterjee from Calcutta University. She's a lady, woman, but she's very well known. International scientist she has become. Her name is Asina Chatterjee. And I never saw here, though I was studying side by side in the next building, in Calcutta University. She discovered some drug. That's why she became famous. And she's also a member of Council of Scientific and Industrial Research all over India, and also a member of University Grants Commission. So she told me that she went for a meeting to attend in Delhi, and there was also an engineer who was sitting in between me and her, and I was discussing about our plan for scientific conference on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He was also Bengali from Calcutta. Somehow she became very interested. I was explaining how scientists misleading, thinking that life can be chemical. And I was describing about how life can be nonchemical and nonphysical. So Chatterjee immediately joined the talk. And I immediately recognized that she must be Chatterjee. So I asked her, "Are you Dr. Chatterjee?" I never saw her before, but I just guessed right. She was Dr. Asina Chatterjee. And she became very interested in the talk, and then she was completely agreeing to our discussion that life is something spiritual, beyond physics and chemistry. So she actually invited me to come and give a talk in chemistry department Calcutta University. So I said that we are coming back with our scientific group from Kṛṣṇa consciousness and would like to present the philosophy in that chemistry department. So like that, there are many...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Recruit them, at least some.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Morning, evening.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Morning and the evening. And I'd like to have six chief guests. All, they will be scientists from Delhi and surrounding areas, some well-known scientists. And also I'm thinking of inviting a few political...

Prabhupāda: Leaders.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Leaders. Governor of the state and Educational Minister. Dr. Sharma told me that he can arrange those things easily.

Prabhupāda: So do that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Dr. Sharma is very helpful, and he's very interested in this idea.

Prabhupāda: You are doing nicely. Kṛṣṇa will help.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Actually he was very praiseworthy of your efforts. He said, "I know what Prabhupāda has done." If in some way Mr. Morarji Desai can be brought to you, that will be very...

Prabhupāda: No, no, he's a very big lion. He will not agree to come. You don't try for.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we're not trying. Just if sometimes we're in Delhi or something, if we... Like he still has a lot of good habits. He's material...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But he gets up at four o'clock every morning. He only eats fruits and milk.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He only eats fruits and milk, nothing else. Cāpāṭi and all he doesn't eat. And he boasts that "I gave up sex life." And he reads the Gītā every day. And, of course, he doesn't practice it, but... In some public speeches he has said that we should revive our Indian culture which has been lost.

Prabhupāda: There is little hope.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're not after the loafer class.

Prabhupāda: No, no. They are not loafer. They are also useful. But they are... Bringing them to the education, university, they are becoming loafer, ironclad. As soon as the low-class men are given education, he thinks, "Now I have become educated, baḍa bāpu. Why shall I work as a carpenter? I must have credits here." And they're bribing in government office, and sixty percent of the clerks-useless. They do not know how to make file, cumberous. Because everyone is going in New Delhi. And all fourth-class men are admitted. I have seen. If you have to find out an old file, you have to wait six months. Because these people are neither for this purpose nor that purpose.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I was thinking, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we should get this gurukula accepted by the government also...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Never do that.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, when our gurukula children apply for entry visas, they should give them visas right away, because these kids from abroad will come to India for gurukula...

Prabhupāda: Our program is open. Brahmacārī gurukule vasan dāntaḥ. We are training like this, covered in the Bhāgavata. Never mind government.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is required. But it will be a failure unless they are taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That... Gandhi's failure was there. He did not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because the material civilization means pravṛtti-mārga, and spiritual civilization nivṛtti-mārga. Pravṛttir eṣā bhūtānāṁ nivṛttis tu mahā-phalām. So pravṛtti... Suppose he is in the village. He has to work with plow. And in the city, Goodyear Tire Company offering him twenty rupees per day. So he'll see that "What is the use of working with this plow? Let me go to Goodyear Tire." Then here the business will be finished. That is the position of India. So much land is lying vacant because there is no worker, and all the rascals have gone to New Delhi or big cities. And overpopulation? "Give them sterilization." Here there is no men to work and they're sterilization... How the leaders... And who is leader? Another debauch number one, Gandhi, Mrs.... And she has produced a Sanjay Gandhi. Very precarious si... So there will be no scarcity of simple living and eating. We shall give nice food, milk, and place. So bring student and teach them. Then gradually increase. They will preach throughout the whole world. The defect of the society, modern—the rascals are worshiped. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has given all in his moral instructions. He said, mūrkhā yatra na pūjyante: "Where rascals are not worshiped..." But at the present moment rascals are worshiped. And he says. He was experienced politician. He said, mūrkhā yatra na pūjyante dhānyaṁ yatra susañcitam. "In the society where rascals are not worshiped and food grains are properly stocked..." Mūrkhā yatra na pūjyante dhānyaṁ yatra susañcitam... Another... Dampatyo kalaho nāsti: "And where there is no quarrel between husband and wife," tatra śrīḥ svayam āgatāḥ, "all fortune will come there automatically." Svayam āgatāḥ. You haven't got to pray, "Mother Lakṣmī, please come to my house." She'll come. Three things wanted. You should not give unnecessarily honor to rascals, and you should keep your food grains very nicely, and don't quarrel, husband and wife. Then you become fortunate. Just see. Check how these instructions are there.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Demon-crazy, yes. Crazy and demons. (Bengali) You should care. There will be no scarcity of food. There will be no scarcity of place. Now we have to organize. (Bengali)

Indian man (1): (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: Just bring the work and see how to do it. Viśvambhara is not here?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's gone outside. I heard his father and mother-in-law came from Delhi today.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're, the pūjā... They make the loudspeakers. They're very famous.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: His father, mother?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that's Mr. Howdar(?). Yeah, he told me that he's going to get him to get a sound system for the temple, very first class.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Howdar sound system is there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's his father-in-law, his wife's father.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's from a very good family also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Six months. What is that? (Bengali) You learn it. That's all right?

Indian man (1): I think you have taken half. This is for three days, six days.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The morning, night.

Conversation with Surendra Kumar and O.B.L. Kapoor -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: We have no such question, Hindu, Muslim...

Surendra Kumar: She said, "I'm going to become a devotee. I'm going to become a life member."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, very good. She's from Delhi?

Surendra Kumar: No, from Aligarh. So yesterday my wife said that "I am going to see Prabhupāda," she said, "I am coming with you."

Mrs. Kumar(?): (Hindi)

Surendra Kumar: She was there when you were there in Aligarh, in my house.

Prabhupāda: I have many Muslims.

Surendra Kumar: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Rāmajana. Here he became... What is that? Rāma-rañjana. Rāma-rañjana.

Surendra Kumar: Rāma-rañjana, his name has been changed... (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Our Attar Mia(?) has become Atreya Ṛṣi.

Talk About Varnasrama, S.B. 2.1.1-5 -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Benarsi sari also considered very valuable.

Prabhupāda: It is golden, gold border. You can... When you want to..., mean an old Benarsi sari..., you can go. There are persons, they'll take it, and they'll burn it, and the borders will take care, either silver or gold. Still in Delhi we find. Any investment were... Not this plastic plate and paper plate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Whenever they buy something, it must have value.

Prabhupāda: Must have value. That is Indian investment.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the opposite of the Western.

Prabhupāda: And whatever you manufacture, you can show back. Suppose this tape recorder. If it is working, it has value. What is the use of it? Who cares for you? If it is in working order, it has value. Otherwise, (taps microphone) who cares for it? But if you have got gold, silver, metal... There was a small banker's. You require... I am poor man. I require only two rupees, but I have no money. You take one utensil and go to a small banker. He will keep this pot. "Give me two rupees." The pot is only five rupees' worth, so he'll keep it. He'll give you two rupees. So your immediate necessity is... This way, Indian economics.

Conversations -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Slow and sure.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. But let us see. When it is so slow, it's not sure yet. If you want, you could take a little rest before your massage, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You didn't get much rest outside.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. (break) I think they have suffered, regularly living with rats.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Calcutta and Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Poor quarter. Still they are happy. The rats are jumping over your body.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sounds like Hare Kṛṣṇa Land, Juhu.

Prabhupāda: Yes, with one palace(?).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You were telling me that there was one man who was living in a house. The roof was coming down, and it was raining, and he wouldn't leave. Some worker.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. It is a different type of civilization, to become sanctified and Kṛṣṇa conscious. Other things are not very important. If it is possible to rectify him, don't bother about this. Be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Increase this qualification.

Conversations -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: As I told you last time, in the Western countries, so long I am in the temple, I am safe. And as soon as I go out of the temple, it is hell. And implica..., as they are attached. How they are doing?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's one thing I noticed when I came to India. I felt, only in India, it's the only place that I could go out of the temple, and still I felt it wasn't so hellish. I actually felt like that. You know, just like when we were living in Kamal Nagar in Delhi. There were many karmīs around, but still... Most of them... Many were vegetarians. Many, I could hear pūjā.

Prabhupāda: No, there is some practical life.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Many devotees like to come to India to serve here in our movement because of that. The general culture still...

Śatadhanya: The atmosphere is conducive for spiritual life.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And here in Vṛndāvana it is fully transcendental.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with Bhakti-caitanya Swami-New GBC -- June 30, 1977, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Combine together. What is the difficulty.

Trivikrama: The one thing in my mind is that... I've been in Delhi a little while. I see that such a good pla... We could. Seems like if he was there also, somehow if we had... If we had Delhi as well as the whole... And you say Punjab. If that also included Delhi, I think we could manage, because the boy who's a president, he's a neophyte devotee, and aside from that, there's so many big men who've been our members for years. They want to help, but no one is cultivating them. Caitya-guru, er, Bhakti-caitanya and myself, we went to see a man yesterday, and they were so respectful. They've seen our movement in the foreign countries, and they've been our member five or six years, but no one is there who is capable of drawing them. So he was also... Because he knows the language and he... It was my feeling is... Because Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, he's always in Bombay, he doesn't... Not always, but he couldn't take as much interest in the Delhi affairs.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, there's a couple of points. I discussed this with them. One thing is that your idea was that Trivikrama Mahārāja should go with Bhakti-caitanya to Punjab. So bringing up Delhi now doesn't solve anything, 'cause Trivikrama is already in Delhi. Whether Bhakti-caitanya Mahārāja is eventually in charge of Delhi or Gopāla Kṛṣṇa is in charge of Delhi, in any case the real point is that Prabhupāda advised that he wanted you to go to Chandigarh 'cause that's where we want to develop.

Prabhupāda: So if you cannot combinedly manage the Delhi...

Trivikrama: There he is...

Prabhupāda: Do that.

Bhakti-caitanya: That's what I was feeling, that if I will be in Chandigarh or Delhi, the service is the same.

Prabhupāda: If... Let them have the management of Delhi(?).

Trivikrama: It's only a few hours by car, two hours.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with Bhakti-caitanya Swami-New GBC -- June 30, 1977, Vrindaban:

Bhakti-caitanya: 'Cause from Delhi I want to collect our funds for Delhi and for Chandigarh, and Delhi we will keep our head office, and we will cover the whole north, because...

Prabhupāda: Very good. Yes. In Delhi...

Bhakti-caitanya: ...we have a nice part to work.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you don't think Gopāla will leave, feeling sorry about Delhi being in his zone. Now he's going to...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Gopāla won't feel... I mean, I...

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of feeling. It is the question of work for our...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean, I also can see it may be good. I'm just trying to..., that he should not feel...

Prabhupāda: Why he should feel? If you have to work, you have to work for Kṛṣṇa.

Bhakti-caitanya: Actually we are taking a burden from his back...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with Bhakti-caitanya Swami-New GBC -- June 30, 1977, Vrindaban:

Trivikrama: One other point is Raj Kumar Gupta, that man who is so devoted. He's now sitting in Delhi.

Prabhupāda: So you combinedly do. That will be...

Bhakti-caitanya: I am sure that if... With your blessing... Because Gupta is very influential in Delhi, and Delhi, we will also be able to get the men sitting in the rear(?) if we want, because he has so much influence in the ministry now.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Bhakti-caitanya: That Mr. Raj Kumar Gupta. He is the right man in the ministry now. That Kedaranath Swami, the mayor of Delhi, he always... He is a fast friend. So if we have influential man... Now he has shifted his office from Chandigarh to Delhi, so I have to get the all ordination for Chandigarh from him, through him. So if he will introduce me to his friends in Delhi, and Delhi people mind if I will take our money to Chandigarh, so what I was wondering is collect the money from Delhi from all over, put in Delhi and Chandigarh together, all the north India.

Trivikrama: There will be no shortage of money. There's so much... Just yesterday a man gave five thousand rupees. And he wasn't even a big man. Small man. Big man, we can get. There's so many.

Bhakti-caitanya: (laughs) Yes, practically because we have no small big man.

Prabhupāda: So it is very good premise. So why Gopāla should be sorry that "I go"? Is there any reason?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, he'll feel that he's worked in Delhi before. He developed the Delhi temple. If he feels he can work with it, they'll be...

Prabhupāda: If he can also join, what is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He won't... I'm speaking... I'm just... We don't want him to become disappointed. I know in the past sometimes Gopāla gets disappointed.

Trivikrama: He has so much to do in Bombay with the book, BBT.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with Bhakti-caitanya Swami-New GBC -- June 30, 1977, Vrindaban:

Bhakti-caitanya: No, he can also look over, but he should work, let us allow to work in Delhi.

Trivikrama: We can work together. We're all brothers.

Bhakti-caitanya: But we have to spread the..., put the Prabhupāda's books in everyone's house and spread this movement.

Trivikrama: To think "big ISKCON."

Bhakti-caitanya: Anywhere, doesn't matter.

Prabhupāda: Try to bring that cooperation. So he is GBC for Delhi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: So let him be a GBC. He's GBC for Punjab. Both together, let them work. What is the wrong?

Bhakti-caitanya: Actually Delhi comes under north India.

Prabhupāda: Delhi is part of Punjab.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is, Punjab... And it makes sense, perfect sense.

Prabhupāda: No, we have to work. If he has got more business in Bombay for printing work and mostly he spends his time in Bombay...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, too, he spends at least two weeks in Bombay, and then he spends about another week here in Vṛndāvana.

Trivikrama: He's two or three days out of a month only.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: No, we have to adjust things. It is not sentiment. It is business. So whenever he is required, we can do for printing.

Conversation with Bhakti-caitanya Swami-New GBC -- June 30, 1977, Vrindaban:

Bhakti-caitanya: If he will come and help us, that will be a very... But if I will be in Delhi, I can preach. I can go with them for preaching. We have to set a...

Prabhupāda: It is not that he is prohibited to enter Delhi. It is not...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, as an organizer, he takes pleasure in, you know, developing a center, so he's worked on that center. Now...

Prabhupāda: Center is already there. There are... Not that center is no center. So that center may be taken up. We have got already a place. Now take.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm thinking only that he's worked on Delhi with Bhāgavatāśraya and Prema(?) and others...

Prabhupāda: Let him do.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he won't be... Now he won't be the GBC, so he may feel, "Why I was..."

Prabhupāda: But he's GBC. He's GBC, but otherwise it is his joining. Where is the wrong?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jointly.

Prabhupāda: Yes, jointly. He is in charge of Punjab, and he'll be..., work in Delhi. What is that? I cannot un... So it is simply sentiment.

Conversation with Bhakti-caitanya Swami-New GBC -- June 30, 1977, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: But that...

Bhakti-caitanya: I will pay seven thousand...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhakti-caitanya: Or couple of... What I was wanting... If we will make our Delhi office, from all the BBT payments we will make a conserving of that collection from there, and from there we can supply books all over north India, no problem. And I have a little bit brain to expand it, and I have seen, experienced, since about six months. I don't have any help from anyone except your blessings. So I was trying my best, and I am successful. I can... You can see our work.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So what is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I... I mean, everything sounds rather nice to me, and there's always... You know, everything has to be done so that nobody... People should not be sentimental.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Letter from Yugoslavia--'Books!' -- June 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Has he come with some news?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No one knows, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: How they'll do? They have no asset. Engrossed with bogus things, cheating. That was my ambition. You have seen that Delhi shop? He was preparing first-class ghee, and all, hundred... So we are giving the real spiritual life. Automatically there is response. Customers will come. And (indistinct). And you can cheat somebody. (pause)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the Śyāmasundara Deity in temple today was beautiful.

Prabhupāda: That Deity is very, very nice, Śyāmasundara. Yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa-svarūpaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When you see that Deity, are you... Do you call it Śyāmasundara or Govinda?

Prabhupāda: And Śyāmasundara is good name.

Room Conversation with Alice Coltrane -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: When?

Alice Coltrane: (indistinct) I'm going to go to Delhi today, and bring... We have to go back to (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: I was very glad that you stayed here for some time.

Alice Coltrane: I will live after this(?). But I have to (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: So if you want to do something, take this idea and introduce. Then it will be successful.

Alice Coltrane: This idea that...?

Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and everything will be clear. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). The more you chant, the spiritual life will be revealed. So it is very easy: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma... As much as possible, you chant. Then everything will be revealed and you'll be able to do something. I started this movement simply by chanting.

Alice Coltrane: Yes, I started chanting as soon as I got your message.

Prabhupāda: Now we are... It has spread all over the world.

Alice Coltrane: Yes, it's a fact.

Prabhupāda: And we are still chanting.

Alice Coltrane: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That's right.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And the cabinet minister... But they are in prestigious position. They do not come here. They want me to go to them. I could have come, but in this position...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, and, you know, if your health improves a little, what we may be able to do is to arrange a program in our center in Delhi simply for the selected persons like cabinet ministers, or maybe at one of their homes, and have them invite just the cabinet members and Mr. Desai, and that would be very nice, very high-level meeting. That could be... You know, just like supposing when you go to Bombay, you'll have to stay in Delhi overnight. So on that evening we can make an arrangement like that.

Prabhupāda: Or we can stay in Delhi. No fault.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One or two days. Probably you wouldn't be able to speak to all of them 'cause they're not all in the station at once, but even if a few of them came, it would be very good.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So they gave me a free ticket, and the government allowed me to take with me, forty rupees. In this state, condition, I started for New York. You see? No friend, no secre..., no hotel, nothing, arrangement. This was the beginning. Then I went there. So I do not know how it happened. Now we have got forty crores. It is all Kṛṣṇa's mercy. I never expected that my books will be sold and appreciated all over the world. So that is being done. People are appreciating the whole movement. Even in our country our government, it has come to their notice, cabinet ministers. So my point of view was that in Delhi there is a confectioner's shop. You had been in Delhi?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you go to Delhi sometimes?

Mr. Myer: Yes, I will...

Prabhupāda: There is a street, Loiya Bazaar. So there is a Punjabi's shop. He makes all preparation, first-class ghee. So whenever I used to pass that area, at least fifty customers are waiting. Somebody wanting something, somebody wanting something. That gave me the impression that if you have goods genuine, customer will come. If your dealing is straightforward and the goods are nice. So, so many religious institution and missionary and other, they are all over the world. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, substantial, genuine, so why this will not be appreciated if we present properly? So I fought on that, and some way or other it is successful.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No. It has to be taken to the Central Government.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what I thought also. I suspect that Gopāla wants to get the full information firsthand. Then he has to come to Vṛndāvana-Delhi anyway, so probably he'll come from Calcutta to Delhi directly to deal with the Central government. At that time, we should take the help of Bhakti-caitanya Mahārāja's friend, Mr. Gupta. This is the proper occasion.

Prabhupāda: But if the dacoits attack, we used gun, what is wrong?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Self-protection. The question is it may be that the gun may only be allowed to be used by the licensed holder of the gun.

Prabhupāda: That does not...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes, you know, when a person is arrested, it doesn't mean he's guilty, but they have to arrest him. Then, later on, it's taken up in court whether or not he's guilty.

Prabhupāda: Gun is kept for protection.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So give them the instruction.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They should complain to the Consulate, American Consulate, and Consulate will complain to the Embassy. Once we get the full information then we can take action here in Delhi also. At this point we don't have enough information. This is a very good road to take. Go to the American Embassy in Delhi and say, "We want protection. We are American citizens. We want protection. We're being attacked in Bengal. You must put pressure on the government to give us protection." And they'll do that surely. Plus they have to start an investigation to expose who has done this. That has to also be brought up. I'm sure Jayapatākā is... Śrīla Prabhupāda, should we go and take our breakfast?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want Vrindavan to stay for a while?

Prabhupāda: No, he (indistinct). (Bengali conversation about going around Vṛndāvana) I shall give you car. (Bengali). So if you do business, I'll give you car. Not for luxury. (conversation continues in Bengali) (end)

Room Conversation during lunchtime -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So there was a newspaper clipping about Māyāpur published in the Hindustan Times. This newspaper clipping...

Prabhupāda: Hindustan Times?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Delhi.

Room Conversation during lunchtime -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ah. The heading is "Eleven Krishna Devotees Held for Firing." "Five Indian and six foreign Vaiṣṇava devotees were arrested from Māyāpur maṭha of ISKCON, the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, in Nabadwip last night when shots fired from inside the celebrated temple injured fifteen persons, most of them milkmen. A double-barreled gun was seized from the maṭha, it is reported. Police pickets have been posted since there is considerable tension in the nearby villages. Among those arrested is Swami Bhavānanda, an American in charge of the maṭha. Some time ago he was forced to leave the country after the expiry of his visa, but he returned later. The incident occurred at about 5 p.m. on Friday. Some boys were grazing their cattle on the fields outside the maṭha when some cows strayed into its compound. The cattle were beaten up by the inmates and driven out." It doesn't sound like our devotees. Beat up cows? "Angry milkmen from a nearby village crowded outside the maṭha. Shots were then fired from inside the maṭha, it is reported, injuring fifteen persons, two of them seriously. The police arrived on the scene within an hour. Among the six foreigners arrested are a Romanian, an Italian, and some Americans. The founder of the maṭha, Prabhupāda A.C. Bhaktivedanta, was not present." This is called slanted reporting. I mean, first of all, our devotees don't beat up the cows. We worship the cow. We don't beat cows. I can't take this as very factual account. So many statements here say, "It was reported," "It was reported." This is from a... It was published in Delhi, but it's datelined Calcutta, and the event happened in Māyāpur. So by the time it got to Delhi it seems to have taken a strange shape. I thought you'd want to...

Prabhupāda: These goyālas are very aggressive.

Śatadhanya: Milkmen means goyālas.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bālāi goyālas.

Prabhupāda: It is not the Muhammadans.

Room Conversation during lunchtime -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No. Police inquiry must be there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I save this?

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śatadhanya Mahārāja is going to be leaving to go to Māyāpur.

Śatadhanya: Myself and Prabhāsa, we're going to be leaving now for Delhi, then to Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: So what is the actual position, that they should...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Send a letter from there.

Prabhupāda: But why in the morning the cows will come?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says here, "At 5 p.m. on Friday."

Prabhupāda: P.M.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, in the evening.

Prabhupāda: Evening?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Five o'clock in the evening.

Prabhupāda: But they say it was attacked at night.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhāgavatāśraya: ...ground floor restaurant. So it would take eighteen months to build the building. And then the idea is that we can have the ground floor for our restaurant.

Prabhupāda: Very good. Make Govinda Restaurant.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: New Delhi will like it. New Delhi people will appreciate a vegetarian restaurant. So I think there's some pleasing news, Śrīla Prabhupāda. This is sent by Bharadvāja Prabhu. It's a letter.

Prabhupāda: Delhi temple is going on nice?

Bhāgavatāśraya: Oh, yes. We are redecorating everything inside. We've painted to about four feet off the ground with some gloss paint and then nice distemper. And I've spent, oh, a lot of money, around two thousand rupees on the whole temple. Temple room, Deity room, kitchens, everything, we're painting it all. And now Bhakti-caitanya Swami, he will have his office there. BBT office will be in Delhi. It is very good arrangement.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact. We are trying for that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's another one from the Head of the Department of Philosophy and Social Sciences in Madras. His name is Usair Mohammed Kasim. " 'Swami Prabhupāda's Bhagavad-gītā As It Is is a remarkable exposition of Vedānta philosophy. What impressed me most is its nonsectarian analysis and acceptability.' " He says its nonsectarian. Everyone would say... Most Hindus would say, "The Bhagavad-gītā is our book." But here is a Muslim saying it's nonsectarian. " 'Furthermore, this book I'm sure will inspire men of all faiths. The rendering is authentic and lucid. I am confident that this admirable classic will contribute to a greater understanding of Indian philosophical heritage.' " This book should be shown to these government men in Delhi, Śrīla Prabhupāda. This review. Usair Mohammed Kasim.

Bhāgavatāśraya: We can make copies?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Write Gargamuni. He'll send more. This is an important Encyclopedia of Vedic Knowledge reviews. Actually he got all of these reviews recently. That's amazing. It's amazing how many reviews they got. These are all from the months of May and June I think. Yeah. You want to hear some of them? "Minister of Education: 'Message: The ancient roots of traditional Indian life reach farther into the distant past than any other country on earth. What thousands of years ago culminated in education included the development in the student of all good qualities. In other words the pupil was ignited with a desire to learn and develop himself rather than strive for material rewards. From out of the great ages the ancients, headed by Śrī Vyāsadeva, have left us the timeless treatise of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the basis of all education.' " This is the Minister of Education, the Government of Maharastra. She's admitting...

Prabhupāda: Vedavyāsa.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dairy land in Agra?

Prabhupāda: Agra?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I heard also someone was proposing. One man who's staying here now is proposing four acres in Agra. They went today to see it. I think Bhagatjī went and also Akṣayānanda Mahārāja. They'll give you a report on it.

Prabhupāda: Supply of ghee from that dairy land would be very good.

Bhāgavatāśraya: We are also trying. We want to get some place near Delhi also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These are linked up-Delhi, Vṛndāvana, Agra.

Bhāgavatāśraya: And Chandigarh. All those four centers.

Prabhupāda: Four corners.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There was so much good news today I couldn't even begin to finish it. Now these things were waiting, see, under registered letter. Now I can always get them. Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Thank you. (devotees offer obeisances) (end)

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Since the Communists took power in West Bengal, the police are caring less for religious groups." Before, the police would always give religious groups protection. Now they don't care. I mean just see, they didn't come for two hours, and then they said, "Come down and file a complaint." And when we came down, immediately arrested. This same thing happened in New York. They told Ādi-keśava Mahārāja and the other boy, Trayī dāsa, "You come down to file some statement." As soon as they came down they said, "You're under arrest." Same trick. (break) ...infirmary and they come in and they... I never heard of that. Someone is in the infirmary being treated and they beat him worse. And the newspapers all report it the other way.

Prabhupāda: Because the government is Communist.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. The newspapers are being told what to print. They're afraid to print anything else. But foreign press can print anything. And other press, Delhi press, Bombay press, they can print anything. This was dated the eleventh.

Prabhupāda: Government published this. The Statesman, therefore, has not given any description.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm thinking to send a copy of the letter direct to Māyāpur and another one through Calcutta, just in case there's some...

Prabhupāda: Do the needful.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you want me to go to Delhi, or should I wait until Bhakti-caitanya comes with Mr. Nai on Thursday?

Prabhupāda: No, here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Today's Tuesday. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...gṛhastha life. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura independently... Or I was also gṛhastha. Our aim was different. But this neophyte, if they remain aloof from temple connection without attending the function, gradually they will be lost.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was the reason that I suggested to Abhirāma Prabhu that he should make his business in Bombay. Actually the gṛhasthas have no desire to live independent of the temples. Just like Mādhavānanda, he's got an apartment now just near the temple so that he can attend maṅgala-ārati and the other functions.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless these things are continued, the karmīs' poison will spoil them. He can do independent business; there is no harm. But must be connected with the devotional service.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Send this copy to this Communist man.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) Give him a little heartache.

Prabhupāda: Just photograph a copy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right. When Yaśomatīnandana goes to Delhi he can make a photocopy. Send it to the man by mail. "Thought we'd let you know, CIAs are back in Māyāpur." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...because there is psychological difference.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See, one thing is that... Of course, when one has no energy, when one has no strength, then it's hard to be active. But then the other thing is true, that when one is active, he gets appetite automatically.

Prabhupāda: Therefore those who are physically active, they can eat more.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, it's true.

Prabhupāda: But those who are not physically active, they cannot eat.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Four. The same thing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like you go from India to New York, you leave India at, say, one or two in the morning, three o'clock in the morning, Delhi, and you reach New York three o'clock in the afternoon same day. Twelve hours. Actually you've been traveling twenty hours or more, but it's twelve hours only on the clock. It's a very nice experience. You feel like you've put something over on the material energy. It feels like you've gained something, gained time.

Prabhupāda: The more you go, western side, you save time. The more you go eastern side, you add time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, there's some science fiction that if you go like that fast enough, then you can go back into history. Time machine. By going at a certain speed in a certain direction you can go back into history, and if you go the other way you can go ahead into the future. There's a H. G. Wells. He's a famous science fiction writer. So he wrote a..., called The Time Machine. He was going back into history.

Prabhupāda: H. G. Wells, he was good writer, but he was a scientist also.

Room Conversation Gaurasundara, Dr. Kapoor -- July 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Many... He has met with big, big institute, Bose Institute, head of the, and they are appreciating, "Yes, please go on describing."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They've invited the Bhaktivedanta Institute speakers now in many universities, wherever he went, Delhi...

Prabhupāda: Caitanyera dayāra kathā karaha vicāra. (Hindi) No sentimentalist. "Come on, scientist." Caitanyera dayāra kathā karaha vicāra. Vicāra karile citte pābe... Vicāra... (Hindi) High-court judges. (Hindi) But so far, it is encouraging. (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now you're going to also get that planetarium in Washington.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's very important.

Dr. Kapoor: What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One of our devotees, Ambarīṣa dāsa, his name is. He's very wealthy person.

Prabhupāda: He is grandson of Ford, great-grandson.

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes. So there is one member of Parliament in Gujarat who belongs to the party of the Home Minister. He was the chairman of party Lok Dal. It was Charan Singh's party. And he... I met him, and I explained to him that we wanted some citizenship for some devotees or something like that, and he mentioned it to Charan Singh when he came back from Delhi. And Charan Singh said that if it was... There's discussion, then definitely... I mean if there's no legal hitch, he will certainly help. Then I said but they want to come and meet you also. So he said, "Yes, you can bring them." So tomorrow... I came this week, and tomorrow the member says that we can meet him. Now I just heard that there was some news yesterday? So that... We will have to make two applications, one to clear up that incident...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So the member will come here to Vṛndāvana to see Prabhupāda?

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes, if I bring him he'll come.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that nice, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Not bad.

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Yaśomatīnandana: This Prabhudas Patwaria is just now in Delhi. I can go today. He already told me that he will take me to the Prime Minister, because he has very good relation with Prime Minister. And he was reading your books in the jail. Prabhudas Patwaria was framed by Indira Gandhi in the dynamite case of George Pramanas. And the George Pramanas was also in same room with him, and he was also reading books.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow! These men are important men now in the government.

Yaśomatīnandana: George Pramanas is minister of railway. And he was with Prabhudas. Prabhudas Patwaria can be a great help now. He's coming here on 30th.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You'll come with him?

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes. I'll come with him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you won't go back to Ahmedabad till afterwards.

Yaśomatīnandana: No, I won't go back. I think we should move on these matters. We should do something.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? It seems like there's three things that we're... I'm just wondering... Here's Gopāla.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) So I thought that unless he brings some book, he won't come. Because every time I criticize him, "Where is the book? Where is the book?"

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We've got the First Canto, Part Two, this time, in Hindi.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Very nice. So you are being recognized. You are doing good, so he's doing good.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's doing good.

Meeting With Governor of Tamil Nadu -- July 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So give us little protection. That is my request.

Governor: We'll do it, no doubt. I'm meeting the Prime Minister tomorrow, and we are going to discuss that matter. This is my daughter. She stays in Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Thank you very much. She is married?

Governor: She is married. She has a husband. She was also an advocate in... This is husband. He's in the government of India agricultural department now.

Prabhupāda: Very good. We are very much interested in agriculture.

Governor: He's a scientist. Very, very great scientist. He is Ph.D. of California University.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Governor: He studied in California, and he's a Ph.D. of California University.

Prabhupāda: I have got two, three Ph.D.s.

Meeting With Governor of Tamil Nadu -- July 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Governor: So I would request you to come to Madras, and we'll arrange some of your lectures also.

Prabhupāda: (to Tamāla Kṛṣṇa) If possible, take me there. Madras is not far away. It takes about two hours from Delhi.

Governor: From Delhi only one and a half hour. I came only yesterday morning. We left the plane by... Now with jet line only takes one and half hours. Otherwise takes two hours. Boeing flight. Daily.

Prabhupāda: Think over. His Excellency is inviting. It is a good opportunity.

Governor: We'll keep Mahārāja in our Raj Bhavan in very comfortable place to stay. It's like āśrama, because in our lands in my garden we have got 1,300 deers of various type. We feel as if we are in Vālmīki-āśrama. They are all coming to us, and we give them some food also, 1,300 deer in our compound.

Prabhupāda: So accept his invitation and fix up.

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Every Sunday in Bombay hundreds of people come just to look at the building. It is so attractive.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So kindly finish it. Take money and squander and finish it at a time.

Surabhī: Śrīla Prabhupāda? When I was in Jaipur I inquired from some people regarding your health, because I met Yaśodānandana Swami in Delhi, and he told me that you wanted to know from an astrologer about the situation. So I went to one man who was previously the advisor of the Mahārāja of Mansingh of Jaipur. One life member brought me to him. So I inquired.

Prabhupāda: What he is?

Surabhī: He's a paṇḍita. He uses numerology.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Numerology?

Surabhī: Numerology. By numbers. So he takes the name and then he... So he said... You want to know what he said? He told me that your disease is going to last altogether about two and a half years, two years and five months, of which eight months have passed.

Prabhupāda: Still I shall live?

Surabhī: He said that these three months now are most critical, but then, after three months, things will go better, but there will be ups and downs for about one and a half more years. Then he said after that it will be quite all right.

Prabhupāda: Three months?

Surabhī: It will be very...

Prabhupāda: Difficult.

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Print.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Those Diwali cards, Śrīla Prabhupāda, which I showed you? They're selling very well.

Prabhupāda: That is business, earn money. That's all.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That's why I... Every day we are getting orders of more than thousand cards just in Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And now I've just written... I'm adding three more cards to the line to give people more variety. So...

Prabhupāda: Very good. So there you have got business. You have got money. Why you are miser? Earn money and spend money. That's all. I know this business. Earn money and spend money.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I try to make it...

Prabhupāda: Throughout my whole life I have done this. Earn money and spend money. I am not miser.

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Indian community, they are regularly coming in our temple?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. I would imagine that there was a good many thousand Indians at the festival. There must have been. We have quite a good relationship with the Indian community in New York. Ādi-keśava Mahārāja and others have developed it through the years now, in the last two years. (break)

Abhirāma: I just now returned from Delhi, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Abhirāma: So I went to see the astrologer with Yaśodānandana Swami, and he did more calculations on your chart.

Prabhupāda: You can get on light.

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Why not bring them?

Abhirāma: Yes. On Sunday we have arranged. They will come for a visit of Vṛndāvana, and they will come to see you, to see if they can relieve you of some difficulty. As far as we could find in Delhi, these are the most reputed men, and they are actively practicing and teaching. They are recognized.

Prabhupāda: Make that arrangement. Yes. On Sunday?

Abhirāma: Yes, on Sunday, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Today is Thursday. So these were the major points, Śrīla Prabhupāda. For six months there's trouble, especially in first week of September. And if you can pass through '78, then he sees four or five years ahead clear.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means divine intervention, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: The chart is given. The calculation there is finished. That doesn't matter. Rather, if I am finished now, it will be glorious.

Room Conversation -- October 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, do you want tilaka?

Bhagatji: From Delhi, only day before yesterday the road was clear. Again it is raining. Delhi to Mathurā, that road.

Brahmānanda: The road is clear?

Bhagatji: Because it was blocked.

Hari-śauri: It was blocked. Yesterday they got through, but only just. The day before it was blocked. Now today again it's raining.

Prabhupāda: The buses stopped?

Bhagatji: Buses stopped, Prabhupāda, taxis stopped. Only they are allowing some cars to go. Yesterday only car could go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the planes were on strike. The planes were not going either. In Bombay no planes were leaving. We were lucky to get the first-class train.

Hari-śauri: The road is very bad though, anyway. It wouldn't have been passable, not for Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It would have taken three to four hours to go by car from Delhi in this condition. And bumpy. The train journey was not so bad, I think, not so bad. The weather was nice.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) (break) ...water for drinking?

Room Conversation -- October 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said scratch hard. (break) The other train? Punjab Mail? Frontier Mail? Oh, Rajdhani. Rajdhani Express?

Prabhupāda: That is from Calcutta?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's two. One comes from Calcutta, between Calcutta and Delhi, and the other goes Bombay-Delhi and Delhi-Bombay. Both of them take about seventeen or eighteen hours. The one going from Calcutta stops only once, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Kanpur, I think. Between Calcutta and Delhi it makes one stop at Kanpur. That's all. It's all air-conditioned.

Prabhupāda: And the other?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The other one stops once, I guess, but I'm not certain of the place. Between here and Bombay it makes one stop, so far I know. I'm not sure what is that stop. They're very popular trains. They run only about twice a week. But the train we were on was quite quick also. But not so quick as this. The train we were on took about twenty-two hours, Bombay-Delhi. But Rajdhani, I think, takes seventeen. It's about five hours faster.

Prabhupāda: They are also very fast. No?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That one we were on?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Room Conversation -- October 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Let him meet.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right. They need his specimen signature anyway, so that will be a good reason to go. Actually, most customers they have are small, so they're afraid of the bank. But a society like ours with so many connections in Delhi and other places doesn't have to be in the same position as an individual.

Hari-śauri: These men here, they want some false prestige for keeping Prabhupāda as...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They want the money also.

Hari-śauri: Yes. They want to use the money in the bank.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the point. They get elevated positions.

Hari-śauri: Yes. Advertises them very nicely without...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And they get raises. They get promotions. But they've lost money instead of gotten more, because of the way they've dealt with Prabhupāda.

Hari-śauri: Mean consciousness. Kṛpaṇas.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I didn't want you to have to get involved again, Śrīla Prabhupāda, with them.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say do the needful.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhagatji: On 2nd of October she went to Agra, Śrīla Prabhupāda. She went to Agra. When you got down from the train at 7:30, she was coming on nine o'clock on Taj Express from Delhi. After that, there was so much of crowd going on for her. In Agra there were fifty or sixty thousand people waiting for her, too.

Haṁsadūta: She's becoming popular again.

Bhagatji: The question is about this dearness, these costly things, going, prices higher and higher.

Bali-mardana: Yes. The prices are going up, so the people are becoming dissatisfied with this Janata government.

Haṁsadūta: Just prior to her being arrested, a few days, she has publicly announced that "The government doesn't have the guts to arrest me." She said, "The government doesn't have the guts to arrest me." So this arresting her will make her more popular. She is very intelligent lady. And her little sister, this Shreemav Badranayiki, she was the prime minister of Shree Lanka. She is also coming back. These two women went to school together. They were in the same class.

Bhagatji: From Ceylon.

Haṁsadūta: Yes. It's an amazing coincidence. This woman prime minister of Śrī Lanka, she follows everything Indira does. When Indira Gandhi held elections, she also held elections. She lost; she lost. She's coming back; she's coming back. They're very friendly, two ladies running these two countries. Sometimes when preaching I tell the public, "What kind of country is this? The land of the rājarṣis and some lady is running the government."

Prabhupāda: Hm, don't touch politics.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were very impressed with Girirāja. I mentioned to Mr. Gupta here that Girirāja's father was the biggest lawyer in Chicago. So they also felt that he was like a lawyer. So they were very impressed by him, and he was dealing with them in a very patient but intelligent way. So they just... Actually they realized more things today, I think, than ever before about the position of our society. They got a little bit more knowledge. And they also revealed more today about how they were thinking 'cause of the way Girirāja was talking with them. I think it was the most... It was a very progressive conversation. They are awaiting a telephone call that we would be going with them to Delhi tomorrow morning.

Prabhupāda: Wrote it?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have to call them to confirm that we will be going. Should we utilize the car, Śrīla Prabhupāda, or go in the train?

Prabhupāda: No, you can go by car.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The road is open. Upendra is here now. Should we give him the kismis(?) to make?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Upendra...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's the kismis. Prabhupāda said mix with honey and smash.

Prabhupāda: Four kismis.

Room Conversation -- October 9, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Girirāja? Did not go to the bank?

Girirāja: The bank? Well, yesterday we delivered a letter signed by Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami and myself officially instructing them to transfer the fixed deposits from here to Delhi. So there are a couple of formalities. And so the Delhi manager gave us a note what we have to do. And Tejiyas says that the former chairman of the Punjab Bank is a life member.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Girirāja: So he said that he could even come with us and meet them. So the new chairman, I mean the present chairman, is coming on Tuesday. So I think we'll get all the formalities ready, and then we can go on Tuesday. Today is Sunday, so we couldn't do anything today.

Prabhupāda: So these people have agreed?

Girirāja: The local people? Well, they have not agreed. That's why we felt that we have to meet the chairman. Legally we have every right to transfer the fixed deposit wherever we like, and if the former chairman is with us, then they can't give any false excuses because he knows all the rules. Actually we're not asking for anything special. Otherwise we're... Probably the local people will try to avoid giving it up. But this is our right, and the chairman has to uphold our right as customers of the bank.

Prabhupāda: What is their plea here?

Girirāja: Local people? Well, they will say that there's no reason to transfer the fixed deposits.

Prabhupāda: We have reason.

Room Conversation -- October 9, 1977, Vrndavana:

Girirāja: Yes, we have reason. That is our choice. And the manager in Delhi already said that for our foreign remittances it would be much easier to bring it in Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Girirāja: So I think we could have an account at the main office in Delhi and the money can come first there, and that will make them satisfied. And since we have our office in Delhi, and since Delhi is the main city, it's more convenient for us to have our most things there. And then when we need it in Vṛndāvana it can be brought here. Manager of the Delhi branch asked us if we have a branch in Delhi. So when I said that we do, he said, "Then it will be more convenient for you to deal with the main branch."

Prabhupāda: So do it. Transfer.

Girirāja: Yes. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...to deliver to the banks?

Girirāja: We have the copy of that letter with their stamp that they received it.

Prabhupāda: So what is that copy? What you have written?

Girirāja: Well, we wrote two letters, because the fixed deposits are in the name of ISKCON Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma Temple Maintenance.

Room Conversation -- October 9, 1977, Vrndavana:

Girirāja: Well, we wrote two letters, because the fixed deposits are in the name of ISKCON Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma Temple Maintenance. So we said that "We are holding the following fixed deposits in your Vṛndāvana branch," and then we gave the list of the numbers and the amount and when it is due, and we said, "Please arrange to transfer these to your main branch in New Delhi." And then another letter for those in the name of ISKCON Vṛndāvana-Māyāpur Trust. Same contents. So then they wrote back that we should write the same letter addressed to the Vṛndāvana branch and with a copy to them, and we should give the original and the copy to them, and they will present the original to the Vṛndāvana branch and get them to transfer the money. And the second point is that they wanted us to give them the fixed deposit receipts, and they said they would give us a receipt. But we are hesitating to do that, because we are afraid if they give those receipts to the Vṛndāvana branch, then they may keep them. So we want to propose that the Vṛndāvana people should transfer the money and they should prepare a new receipt for the Delhi branch. And when the new receipt is prepared, they can give us the new receipts and we will give them the old receipts.

Prabhupāda: Very good. (break) They should give in writing.

Room Conversation -- October 9, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They have given you receipt, huh?

Girirāja: Well, they gave receipt for the letter, and what they propose for the certificates is that we give them the certificate, they will give us a receipt for the certificates, then they will endorse the certificates for Delhi instead of Vṛndāvana. Then they will give back the certificates and we will give them the receipt.

Prabhupāda: So let them write and give us the certificates, and we shall do this.

Girirāja: They should write that they will give us the...

Prabhupāda: Whatever they are asking, they can write.

Girirāja: Yes. They wrote it on the bottom portion of the letter which we wrote them. Of course, we can ask them to write again on their own letterhead. Otherwise they've already written on the copy of our letter to them, and they signed it with their rubber stamp. Anyway, there's no problem, because when we go there we can just ask them to type up the same thing on their letterhead so it's more official.

Prabhupāda: What letter they gave?

Girirāja: Well, on our letter... On the copy of our letter they wrote back to us that we should give them a copy of the same letter which we addressed to them, but we should address it to the Vṛndāvana branch. And then they will present that letter to the Vṛndāvana branch and ask them to transfer the money.

Prabhupāda: Well, why don't you do that?

Girirāja: Yes, we're doing that. And the second point is the Delhi office wrote that we should give them the fixed deposit receipts and they will give us a receipt for that. Then they will get those fixed deposit receipts changed over to the New Delhi office, and then they will give us back the certificates and we will give them back the receipt.

Room Conversation -- October 9, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So there is no problem. Huh?

Girirāja: Well... The only problem is if the Vṛndāvana people try to hold on to the receipts and make difficulty. In ordinary course of business there is no difficulty. This is the ordinary procedure. So we will try to arrange that the endorsement of the certificates to New Delhi could be done in our presence instead of our giving them the certificates.

Prabhupāda: What is that endorsement?

Girirāja: That this money, instead of being payable from Vṛndāvana, now we can take that money from the New Delhi office.

Prabhupāda: The money is due after some years.

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So do we have reason, deposit them? (?)

Girirāja: Yes. I feel that we can do this.

Prabhupāda: Thank you. Tejiyas has come.

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That's good.

Room Conversation -- October 9, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Don't try to receive payment.

Girirāja: No, no.

Prabhupāda: Just transfer to your Delhi head office.

Girirāja: Yes. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Rāmeśvara Mahārāja has come.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Rāmeśvara: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: How are you?

Rāmeśvara: I'm feeling very well, knowing that you're feeling better.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Rāmeśvara: I was just visiting in Tehran with Ātreya Ṛṣi and Parivrājakācārya Swami. They are successfully preaching to the most important people in that country.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Rāmeśvara: Actually, just yesterday Parivrājakācārya met the king.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Shah.

Room Conversation -- October 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Mādhava: So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, Svarūpa Dāmodara has invited scientists from Delhi University...

Brahmānanda: Who will speak? Who will be the speakers?

Mādhava: I think Dr. Mishra is coming to speak, and Dr.... Is that R.K.? R.K... I haven't spoken to him myself. He's going to be speaking on Sunday.

Brahmānanda: What are these cards?

Dr. Kapoor: Where is he from?

Mādhava: He's from Delhi University, I believe. He's from the AIIMS, the All-India Institute of Medical Science. He's head of the biophysics department. There was a Dr. Kavoor, I believe his name was. Kavoor?

Brahmānanda: From Shree Lanka.

Mādhava: No, no. That was... (laughter)

Jayādvaita: He can be invited to be kicked with shoes.

Mādhava: Maybe it was Kival. No, here it is, Kapil. He's from Delhi University. He's in the botany department. He's going to speak.

Rūpānuga: Then there's some opposing.

Mādhava: There's one... Yes. I think it was Dr. Mishra who was going to give some ideas of his own that were a little different from ours.

Dr. Kapoor: Doctor Mishra from Delhi University. Physics department.

Mādhava: Yes. Biophysics. He was going to give a talk on the theory of living states.

Dr. Kapoor: Are any of those people from the philosophy department of Delhi University, are they going to speak?

Mādhava: There was some coming from the philosophy department, but I don't think they're going to speak. There was one who's going to speak on the limitations of science. I don't know if his name is listed here. Oh, yes, here it is, Dr. Ramaya. He's going to speak on the limitations of scientific method.

Dr. Kapoor: Is he a philosopher or a scientist? Biochemistry.

Prabhupāda: We are concerned with the scientists.

Room Conversation -- October 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: So they are getting now free transportation. "For all invited guests-food, lodging, and transportation between Delhi and Agra, and the conference site will be arranged free of charge." So these are all confirmations, people's signatures.

Dr. Kapoor: I see.

Prabhupāda: Who is giving free?

Brahmānanda: We are giving free transportation, lodging and food.

Dr. Kapoor: Free transportation from Delhi. Not from other places.

Brahmānanda: No, just Agra and Delhi. I think everyone is invited from these two places. These have been mailed in or our men have gone?

Mādhava: They have been mailed in.

Brahmānanda: These are mailed replies. These have been posted invitations.

Mādhava: They expect about 150 people altogether.

Dr. Kapoor: Anyway, it's going to be an interesting thing, the first of its kind in Vṛndāvana.

Brahmānanda: This is the first conference you've had?

Mādhava: Yes.

Brahmānanda: It's the first in the world.

Rūpānuga: First time.

Dr. Kapoor: First in the world. (laughs)

Brahmānanda: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break) Ātreya Ṛṣi and Parivrājakācārya Swami are here.

Hari-śauri: They brought you a big plate of fruits and things, from Tehran.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: This is sweet lemon.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: It is sweet lemon. The juice is very sweet.

Prabhupāda: Now give me.

Room Conversation -- October 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Girirāja: I had a very wonderful meeting with the chairman of the bank. And he's ready to do anything to satisfy us and keep our business. So he said that he was going to get rid of the man who is on this counter, Mr. Gupta, and give us some more young, dynamic, cooperative person to be in charge over here. And we completed the formalities for transferring the fixed deposits to the main branch, and he assured me that it was a completely routine transaction and that if the local people tried to do anything to stop it, that he would himself personally see that it went through smoothly. So I gave them the certificates. It was not necessary to sign them. We just gave the certificates, and they gave us a receipt. And they're going to endorse the certificates. So they are payable from New Delhi instead of from Vṛndāvana, and then we can go and collect them. And the chairman also called the assistant general manager. He was also very nice and very sympathetic. So he's going to come on Saturday, and he's going to look into everything, all the difficulties here. And I said that he could bring his family and they could take prasādam. So they're all going to be coming on Saturday at about eleven o'clock. I had submitted a letter with eleven things that we wanted. You know, we want the hours to be regular, we wanted a new person here, we wanted our interest on time—just a list of different things. And he said that there's no problem, and they're just ready to do whatever we want. They gave the impression that they would dismiss any number of people here that were giving us trouble. But I said that I thought that the main person was this Mr. Gupta, and so they said they would replace him. It was very good. But still, even if there are improvements here, I think it's better to keep the fixed deposits in New Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Girirāja: Because they are the responsible people, the big city, cosmopolitan, and these small towns there's always danger.

Prabhupāda: So certificate must be transferred there.

Room Conversation -- October 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Girirāja: Yes. We've given them the certificates and the letter, and they've taken the responsibility. They're sending the certificates by registered post to the Vṛndāvana people with their instructions to transfer the money to New Delhi. So those will definitely reach here by Saturday when the assistant general manager comes. And if there's any hesitation, the assistant general manager will take care of it when he's here on Saturday. And I would think that by Monday or Tuesday we could get the certificates changed officially. And then, I think, we should have a least one account in their main branch in New Delhi. It would probably be easier to get inward remittances there. And if we want the interest from the fixed deposits to be kept there, we can have an account there for that. And that will keep us in good contact with the head office.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Hm.

Room Conversation -- October 12, 1977, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: I'll get the other chart. This man in Delhi did another chart.

Prabhupāda: Why November 28th?

Jayapatākā: Why? That's just his... He may or may not be accurate.

Bhavānanda: What is the occurrence on that day?

Jayapatākā: He said that that's the last day of the...

Bhavānanda: That's the day Venus changes houses.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Kīrtanānanda: That's the day Venus changes houses.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Turn me over occasionally this way and that way, even I do not say.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Of course, we'll ask you first, but we'll do it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...has offered place in Delhi. Is it not?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: For the Institute?

Prabhupāda: Some place in Delhi for Institute.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. They haven't offered that place. Did they? No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. It was what you told Prabhupāda earlier.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, they didn't offer a place, but they wanted to help establish a center for the Bhaktivedanta Institute.

Prabhupāda: How to help?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Various ways, money and supporting us. They said it's very essential.

Prabhupāda: Who supported with money? Will they helpful with money, or what sort of support?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually he was speaking in general terms. This Professor Malsanda(?), he's the head of the physiology department in the All-India Institute of Medical Sciences. He's a very religious man. He's also a very well known scholar. He's medical doctor by profession. Also he belongs to many different scientific worldwide organizations, and he feels very strongly that we should have a center in Delhi for the Bhaktivedanta Institute.

Prabhupāda: So money is required.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So if Bombay is sufficient, don't bother in Delhi.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. I will do it slowly first of all to make sure that whatever we have done is going on nicely, then we can expand later on. But in India it is true that everybody I met, very respectful to Śrīla Prabhupāda's movement to what we are trying to do.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That much we want to keep. The people may not think of it as bogus.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Our chief guest for tomorrow has already arrived. And he's very impressed. I took a tour of our temples, also the Gurukula. And they're very impressed with the whole building and the whole program that we have here. Very nice. He brought also an architect. He's a retired engineer, Chowdury from..., together. Also we already have a mathematician from Delhi University for tomorrow. So I took three of them tour of our temple and gave them nice prasādam. They were very impressed.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This has never happened before, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You are the real ācārya for this age, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You perfectly know how to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You're making people who would ordinarily never take interest in Kṛṣṇa consciousness become devotees.

Prabhupāda: In the beginning, when I was selling Back to Godhead alone, I wrote one practical businessman, Mr. Bande(?) I think. He said, "Swamiji, why you have made Vṛndāvana headquarter? (laughs) It is not a place for..."

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: When they hear "Bhaktivedanta," they immediately know that this is Prabhupāda. Many of them told me that "Oh, I have heard Swamiji's lecture in Delhi. It's very nice and very impressive and very convincing." Many of them told me like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your lectures in Delhi drew the most intelligent class of people, Śrīla Prabhupāda. The other swamis, when they would lecture, they would get just the typical pious Indian people, but yours also drew very intelligent group of people, sophisticated people.

Prabhupāda: They danced. (laughter) With coat-pant. I have seen.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Especially there's one Dr. Murti. He's the professor of chemistry, Delhi University. He told me that Prabhupāda is a very good speaker. He said he heard Swamiji's lectures. He said, "Very good speaker." And he's coming early in the morning tomorrow. Whole chemistry group are coming from Delhi University.

Prabhupāda: What is the time?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's 9:30 now, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Śrīla Prabhupāda? Your glucose is here.

Prabhupāda: Give me.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Let me taste the tablet. (break) (Bengali) (break) Go on, kīrtana. (break) What news?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The guests will start coming tomorrow. Mr. Prem Kripal, who is the ex-president of the executive board, UNESCO, he's going to be our chief guest tomorrow. He's going to inaugurate the conference. He'll be arriving about five o'clock this evening. He told me he's coming with one of his friends who's also a retired architect. There's also a very well known architect who's coming with him this evening. He's going to speak on what is life and its purpose about twenty minutes. Then the other scholars will start arriving tomorrow, and Sunday everybody's coming. On Sunday there will be many medical doctors... Khorana is one of our life members, Dr. Khorana from Delhi. He's bringing several of his friends. Also I'm expecting some doctors from Agra. One... I don't recall his name, but he's also our life member. Everybody says that we have chosen the right place to have a conference. There's one Dr. Miśra, he wanted to come tomorrow. Also I actually requested him to become the chief guest, but he cannot come tomorrow, but he's coming on Sunday. And also he's speaking. So there are about five or six people from outside that are speaking on different aspects of the conference regarding life. There's one Dr. Bhud.(?) He's one of the philosophers from Delhi University. He's speaking on..., called philosophical foundations of life. He told me he studied a great deal about Rāmānuja. Also, he said, previously he studied in Bon Mahārāja's institute about ten years ago something about Vaiṣṇava philosophy. And now he's a reader in philosophy department in Delhi. He's going to speak something on the philosophical aspects of life. So we expect some good crowd from the scholars, mostly scientists from physics, from chemistry, mathematics and biology. And I found that most of them are very interested, and almost everybody wanted to come unless they had some engagement before. Everybody was very positive on our approach. In fact they encouraged us a lot, and they told us that's unique-trying to understand the concept of life from religious point of view connected with modern science. And many Bengalis are also coming.

Prabhupāda: Scholar?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Viswas is the head of the physics department, Delhi University.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They cannot come for three days. Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Many are coming for three days, except a few. From Agra I expect about fifty, and from Mathurā there will be about fifteen to twenty, and from Delhi I expect about thirty for tomorrow. Then, on Saturday, Sunday... Sunday is going to be... Everybody's coming on Sunday, whomever I invited. Because in Delhi, schools and colleges are still going on.

Prabhupāda: Fifty, fifty.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. So it will be about a hundred. These are all mostly professors, very few students. There's about four or five. All are professors. Some of them wanted to help me start a center in Delhi of our Bhaktivedanta Institute. They told me they can help me in setting up one center in Delhi. There's one Professor Malsanda, he's the head of the physiology department.

Prabhupāda: Why not take the chance?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Also, while I was typing in the Connaught Place, some business man came and he saw the letterhead saying "Bhaktivedanta Institute." Then he asked me later on, "What is this institute?" Then I told him Prabhupāda's projects and plans. And he was very sincere and serious. He was a big businessman. And he wanted to help me in setting up one center in Delhi.

Prabhupāda: So take this opportunity. And we will supply the place, suitable place? It will be very prestigious in Delhi.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Delhi is like Washington, D.C.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have many offices. Similarly in Washington, D.C., they have many headquarters for these scientific and governmental organizations.

Prabhupāda: All embassies.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And also I have set up one round-table debating conference in the Indian Academy of Sciences. That will be right after the conference in Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Rāma?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Round-table conference. There will be other scientists from Delhi, like D. S. Kotari. D. S. Kotari is the ex-chairman of University Grants Commission. He's a very well known physicist. He's a very interested... I think he's the most interested in India in our field. He's retired and very respected. All Indian scientific community... Actually, this was his idea, that we set up a round-table conference in Indian National Science Academy. So we agreed to that. We'll have some sort of a debating form. So I'll bring all our members, and we'll have conference in Delhi. Also Krishnamurti... He's the director of television in Delhi. He's going to make some arrangement for us after the conference for the television appearance in New Delhi. Also most of the schools, they want us come and speak on the same topics that we are organizing here.

Prabhupāda: We want that they should be interested.

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) He has arranged alone.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Svarūpa Dāmodara? Yes. This is his single-handed attempt. Of course, the others have worked very hard also for writing the books and getting them printed. But this arrangement locally practically is his. He's worked very hard-Agra and Delhi.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali with Bhakti-caru)

Bhakti-caru: Fruit juice now.

Bhavānanda: All the scientists are taking prasādam now, Prabhupāda-kacuris and fruit, sabji, hot jalebis.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I saw that yajña that was going on. I mean that hall is first-class looking. Even though this is not the final hall that we'll be building, still, it is one of the nicest decorated halls I have seen, with chandeliers. They rented chandeliers, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I mean it looks very elegant. Everyone is impressed. They never expected. These scientists probably think that Vṛndāvana is some forest. I mean, suddenly they came into a scientific conference. And naturally, after the conference, they are attracted to go into the temple, and then they get darśana. And they're taking prasādam. It's wonderful.

Prabhupāda: Up-to-date gentlemen, they hate to come, Vṛndāvana. They know it is a place for guṇḍās. Pāṇḍās means guṇḍās. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So? How things are going on?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Things are going nicely, though we didn't have too many guests today, Śrīla Prabhupāda. A little more than fifty came. Most of them will be coming tomorrow, and Sunday will be all full. 'Cause today is still Friday, and in Delhi all the schools are still open. But we came, quite a few interesting scientists from Delhi. And one had only one question. Otherwise nobody had anything. I spoke for about two hours on the difference between life and matter, and we showed that the science, modern science, actually does not study life. They only study inanimate matter, atoms and molecules. So they think that life could also be just atoms and molecules. But we showed that that is wrong, and they shouldn't propagate this false idea. Especially in India, I especially made a request to all the scholars, saying that "You should take this very seriously, and should try to expose this in genuine spirit of knowledge all over the world, because the Western science and technology, we tend to think that everything is the absolute truth because science is coming from the West, but we're saying that that is too narrow-minded. We should be a little broad-minded and we should also consider other possible alternatives." And we demonstrated that modern science actually cannot explain about the nature of life. So we requested that in the coming two days we'll establish this on a more scientific basis, that this is not just religious dogma; it is based on complete, genuine, scientific knowledge.

Prabhupāda: So where they are staying?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They're staying all in the guesthouse.

Prabhupāda: And their food?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Room Conversation With Svarupa Damodara -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Navīna Kṛṣṇa. He's in Detroit. After the conference, I'm going to have a debate in Delhi, round-table conference with Dr. Kotari, D. S. Kotari and his group.

Prabhupāda: That will be very nice.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He proposed that. That's Indian National Science Academy. But he had some very strange ideas. I'd like to clarify some of the points. Also, these people who are coming, they want us to come and speak to all their universities.

Prabhupāda: That will be very good.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we'll concentrate here, near Delhi and Punjab, this time, Aligarh and Agra. We'll try to finish this area within this coming month or so. And after that, I'll move to Bombay. I'll try to organize better in Bombay. Also Bombay will be much more effective. There are so many scientists there. I'd like to make a strong show in Bombay.

Bhāgavata: They have a space center there, don't they, in Bombay?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have got Trombay Atomic Research Center also. There is a place called Tata Institute of Fundamental Research.

Bhāgavata: And in Bangalore they have some good institutes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. We'll go all over India. In Calcutta will be very interesting because there are so many people,

Bhāgavata: Yesterday you took ḍāl and ruṭi?

Abhirāma: Just tasted.

Bhāgavata: Oh. Just tasted.

Prabhupāda: Simply touch.

Room Conversation With Svarupa Damodara -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Maybe will take...

Upendra: We can get the bathing ready?

Prabhupāda: Hm. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...with the bank people. A gentleman has come from Delhi. Girirāja and I are talking with him. We've transferred the receipts there, and we're just completing the formalities.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And the bank manager said he was... I think he's one of the top men in the bank. He's completely disgusted—these were his own words—with how they have arranged things here, and he's going to completely redecorate this office, putting in rugs and full furniture and waiting facilities, and make it a first-class office. He says he cannot understand how this has been allowed to go on like this in the name of Punjab Bank. And he's having a new manager brought here who has been trained in Delhi, a younger man who is a little bit more capable of making proper decisions and acting in a nice way. And every single request...

Prabhupāda: But the defect is that here the head manager does not know English.

Room Conversation With Svarupa Damodara -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So Gupta is being transferred.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Gupta will no longer be in charge of this local office here. He's the person who has... Frankly speaking, Girirāja found him to be the one who is most harassing. They purposely have not brought him here this evening, I think. He's not here this evening. The chief man from Delhi could understand that this Mr. Gupta was creating a lot of difficulties.

Prabhupāda: And Dugal is here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dugal is here. So we're explaining to him everything, what we want, and they're agreeing to everything.

Prabhupāda: What Gupta said?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He doesn't say anything anymore, because he has been exposed as having harassed us and unnecessarily not giving the proper facilities. He cannot say anything. Dugal says that "Whatever I am told to do by the head office, I must do."

Prabhupāda: So, he is the head office man?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So he's agreeing to do everything. They have to do everything. They're just workers for the head office. They cannot act independently of the head office. They have to carry out the orders of the head office.

Prabhupāda: So you saw the massaging?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. How are you feeling after it?

Prabhupāda: Good.

Room Conversation -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hindi (break) (Hindi with Nava-yogendra Swami)

Upendra: Girirāja is here, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So, the bank business?

Girirāja: The manager came, I mean, not the manager, the assistant general manager from the head office. He came, and he brought the letter with our eleven-points program which we want to have, and he agreed with all of the points. And he said that probably Tuesday I can go to Delhi and collect the fixed deposit certificates, and they will be endorsed on the New Delhi branch. And he said that after ten days... Within ten days there will be a new manager for the extension counter, and we'll never have to deal with Mr. Gupta again. So many different small points, he instructed the people to comply. And he's going to have the whole extension counter refurnished with carpets and nice chairs and sofas, so that there's a nice atmosphere. So, I mean, I think from now on everything should be very straightforward.

Prabhupāda: So things are satisfactory now?

Girirāja: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So how much transferred?

Girirāja: Ten lakhs, sixty thousand.

Prabhupāda: To?

Girirāja: To the Parliament Street Main Branch in New Delhi.

Prabhupāda: And before that, four lakhs?

Girirāja: Yes, four lakhs to Central Bank in Bombay.

Prabhupāda: So Dugal is very unhappy, eh?

Girirāja: Well, I mean he feels that he's losing everything. But the man from the head office tried to explain that, you know, "This is the reaction to your activities," and that "If you change your activities in the future, we may bring in more money." Actually we're going to expand and develop our activities more and more. So if they win our confidence, we don't mind giving them any amount of money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He also said that the chairman has taken a personal interest in our Society's accounts and has sent him as an emissary. And he also said that he's coming back in about ten days again. He said, "This time when I come back you will not have any complaints." In other words, he's going to rectify whatever mistakes have been made. (whispering)

Prabhupāda: Hm? What is that "pish pish?" (laughter)

Room Conversation -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Girirāja: He said he's going to send some nice younger person from New Delhi who will be very easy for us to work with.

Prabhupāda: Gupta was present? No.

Girirāja: Mostly he wasn't present. A little bit later he came for one or two minutes, but he didn't say anything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One thing I noticed though is that Mr. Goswami, the accountant, the cashier, and Mr. Dugal, when they were leaving, they seemed to be much more..., I don't know if you could say friendly, but they were far more respectful now. I think that they have been a little bit humbled by this incident. They always used to tell us that "We don't care for your money. You must follow the rules. Even if we lose your money, we don't care, but you must stick to the rules." But they seemed a little humbled today, a little changed in their view. I don't think that they ever suspected that they would lose our deposits like this. I think now they'll make much more of an effort. I would expect so. Right?

Girirāja: Oh, yes. Now they're going to make every effort not to annoy us in any way.

Prabhupāda: Very carefully deal, and as far as possible, don't keep money in the bank. Invest in books and expansion. That is my request. If you keep money, there will be so much trouble. So the current account and savings account, ten days' notice, these things are to be done.

Room Conversation -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So you'll get money. Print.

Jayapatākā: One of our parties has gone to Bihar, and they sold about twelve thousand books and they ran out. They just now ran out of books, so they went to Bombay to get Hindi books, but there was no stock. So they came here to... Spent four hundred rupees going there, they found no books. Then they came here to Delhi, and they got two thousand books from Vṛndāvana here, what stock they had.

Prabhupāda: So why stock lacking? Why this mismanagement? There is no question of shortage of stock. I give you open order. Print more than necessity. If you do not print, what shall I do?

Bhakti-caru: Should we start printing Hindi books in Calcutta, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: I do not know where to be... But get it printed in huge stock.

Bhakti-caru: Calcutta also has all the facilities in Hindi.

Prabhupāda: What is use of telling me?

Hṛdayānanda: What is the use of telling him?

Jayapatākā: He said, "I give an open order to print books. Always have big stock."

Hṛdayānanda: Huge stock, he said, more than necessary.

Kīrtanānanda: It's up to us to figure out where to print books.

Gargamuni(?): I have to put this question, Prabhupāda.

Jayapatākā: He already answered that question. Gaura-Govinda, he's already translated sixteen chapters of Bhagavad-gītā in Oriya, and he's translated three small books in Oriya.

Prabhupāda: Let him bring. There is fifty thousand rupees in Orissa.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What news?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We're trying to fix a debate in Delhi on October 27th among different scientists and ourselves.

Prabhupāda: 27th October?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This month, yes, October 27th. It was Indian National Science Academy. There are some very well known scientists, including Kothari, D. S. Kothari and other... They told me there is a group of scientists in Delhi, actually from all over India. It's called "Mind Group." They like to do research on nature of consciousness. And they told me that it would be very good if we have a debate between our group and their group. So I agreed to that. And the Mishra, actually, the one who came last time, he also belongs to that group, and Kothari is the chairman of that group, and there's one Bengali called Lankadas(?) Gupta. He's the secretary. They all belong to that group. So they're going to invite us for a, they call, round-table debate. It will be about twenty people from their side and five from our side. So we're going to have a confrontation. And also Dr. Krana told me that when I come I can fix a television program in Delhi to appear us, and they're going to interview us in the Indian television. But I decided to establish Bombay as a... Since we have everything there ready, I'd like to furnish with office, and also I requested our members to stay here for some time.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Enroll the intelligent men.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In the meantime I'm thinking of a small office here in Vṛndāvana, because Vṛndāvana I'll come back now and then, often, and I'd like to have a small place also to do some writing here. It's a nice atmosphere, quiet, and also they have all the facilities here to do some writing. So I just went to buy a..., got this almirah for the office in Mathurā, Dr. Sharma. In about a month we'll go to Bombay temple and try to furnish the Institute offices and also try to make some contact with the scholars. I'm thinking of holding a short conference in Bombay. It will be like here in Vṛndāvana. Bombay's already many scholars, and right in the middle of the city, so it will be a lot easier in Bombay also. Big cities like Delhi, I think can get many scholars. In Vṛndāvana not so many came, but those few came, they were quite nice, and we learned something from this conference.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was speaking with Śrīla Prabhupāda the other day that it doesn't seem that Vṛndāvana would be a good place to construct an entire building for Bhaktivedanta Institute.

Prabhupāda: Why? There is already a building.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Why? There is already a building.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There is already a building here. Judging by the reaction... Of course, this is the first meeting, but...

Prabhupāda: Later on...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Later on it may be done, but for now it's better to concentrate in bigger cities, where we're sure of the response.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's asking for your...

Prabhupāda: Svarūpa Dāmodara?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Yes. It is true that in big cities... Say, Piyal(?) find it(?) in Delhi. They say they can fill up the Vijñāna Bhavana. Also coming here in Vṛndāvana, especially if we don't provide transportation right from..., by some good conveyance, actually it's not so easy to come here.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: A round table we have in Delhi?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Delhi?

Prabhupāda: That round table?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. There will be a round-table conference debate in Delhi. So all five will be there. Brahma-tīrtha, our geologist from Houston, he's going back, he told me, on 28th. So I decided to do on 27th. Also before that... Krishnamurti is the director general of television in New Delhi, and he's a good friend of our Dr. Khorana. Dr. Khorana is our life member in Delhi. So he also came to the conference on the last day. In fact, he brought the head of the All-India Medical Association also. So he told me that any day I come, any day we want, we can fix a date for a television appearance also. And since we are here, I also don't want to go far away from Vṛndāvana at this time. So in this process I'd like to go to Agra and Delhi and also possible Punjab areas, and I'd like to do some program and come back in Vṛndāvana. I don't want to go far away from Vṛndāvana at this stage. And in the process also we'd like to do some engagements. And then in about one or two months we'll work for Bombay. Bombay, I was told that three rooms are provided for the Institute. But we are at least four, and also we need a secretary for typing. So it seems to me that three rooms that are allotted for us will be not sufficient.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Jaya. Thank you.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Do not copy?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we had never made a copy. So I think the easiest thing would be to give Jayapatākā Mahārāja a letter of authority. He'll get the agreement, and even right in the bank or else at the temple in Calcutta he can make a copy and send us a copy and redeposit the original with the bank. And that's one point. Then another point is that the land on which the building was erected doesn't actually belong to Mr. Patodiya. It belonged to a Bengali gentleman, and in fact it's not owned by Mr. Patodiya. It's leased for ninety-nine years, of which eighty-five years still remain. So this conveyance more or less... It appears that every guarantee is only given for the duration of that lease—another eighty-five years. So the obvious question is what happens after that eighty-five years? Of course, a lawyer, a solicitor, can tell us this very easily, but I'm thinking that it might be helpful that when Jayapatākā is sending us the copy of the sale agreement he may also get a copy for Mr. Patodiya of that lease agreement which Mr. Patodiya has with the Bengali gentleman, so that we can see what the position is after eighty-five years. Girirāja and I were studying it pretty closely. So what we're going to probably do is we'll give the copy of the conveyance draft to one of our life member lawyers, friends in Delhi, and in the meantime, while he's looking at it, we'll get the necessary documents from Calcutta. Then we'll settle it up. Not difficult.

Prabhupāda: There are other? Other occupants?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There are other occupants? I don't follow your question, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: As we have taken...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Others have also taken? Yes. But we can find out what they're doing. Should Jayapatākā do these things? I think he is the proper person, not Śatadhanya. Jayapatākā is more experienced with these kind of things, legal works. In any case, we're dealing with it. Then there's also the issue of who is responsible for paying the various corporation taxes and things like that.

Prabhupāda: The occupier.

Room Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What is the amount?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Total amount? Total amount is ten lakhs, sixty thousand. It's now transferred. I have the receipts locked as before. And they're duly endorsed.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're endorsed to the head office, Parliament Street, Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Now what you have got?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The fixed deposit slips. The actual receipts. See, but they've been stamped now. They've been handed over. We handed them over to this office here. We did everything according to letters and everything, and this office here in Vṛndāvana sent them by registered post to the head office. The head office got them, stamped them, and Girirāja went today to Delhi, collected them with Hari-śauri, and then Girirāja went to Bombay and Hari-śauri brought the receipts back. I took them and locked them away. Same receipts, simply stamped now with the head office stamp, entered in their accounts. So now the fixed deposits are officially held. We have them, but I mean to say they are with the Parliament Street Punjab Bank. Not Vṛndāvana branch.

Prabhupāda: So, they have issued any covering letter?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: More or less a covering letter. I mean we have certain correspondence, but on the receipt itself it says transferred... The whole thing is done pakka. When we gave the receipts to Vṛndāvana branch they signed that they received them. When we gave the letter to the head office originally telling them what we wanted to do, they gave us back in writing, "Take the receipts, give them to the Vṛndāvana branch. They will be transferred, then you will collect them in Delhi." Everything is in writing, documented.

Room Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, he is the same caliber. No, they are sending a different man. He is here only until the new man comes. So in... They realize at the head office that to them this ten lakhs is nothing, because they think that we can give much more. So there's no question of them thinking how to steal this money. They want more business. Ten lakhs is nothing. Another thing is that we have amongst our life members, some of them are former... Two of our members in Delhi were formerly the chairman of the Punjab Bank and the second man in charge of Punjab Bank. So our connections are so strong that no one could ever do anything. Tejiyas is very intimate with those members. When Girirāja went to Delhi to begin this, the first person he met was one of the former chairmen who happens to be our member. Girirāja took instruction. The man said, "You'll do like this, you do like...," you know. No one could... A man who's a former chairman is also still very powerful and respected. So no chairman or anyone will play any tricks. It's very good that this was done. Now they understand that they cannot deal with us with harassment tactics. Anyway, the real benefit will come when the new man comes here locally. Then we can start to deal properly. Until then it will always be difficult, because they are so...

Prabhupāda: Now who is...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This Trivedi. He is very bad also.

Room Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were planning, in my... I talked with Girirāja about this. They were thinking "Here is an old sannyāsī, Prabhupāda. He has many foreign disciples, he has money. Let us get the money in fixed deposit. Then if he should pass away, then somehow by trick the money will be kept here and we'll never let them take it out." That was their plan. Therefore whenever Prabhupāda suggested that Gurukṛpā would sign, co-sign, "No, no," they would never allow. Their plan is that Prabhupāda would pass away, and all the foreigners would be there, and they'd never let them take it. When I showed them this power of attorney, they had a great shock. They were shocked how this had happened to them. I think this was their plan. Very deceiving type of people. Because they are here in Vṛndāvana. All their money is from fixed deposits from āśramas. So they know how to do this business of keeping the money. Now everything is clear. The money is there in Delhi. The Delhi office is not like that. They're businesslike. And we can keep dealing them, but on regular accounts. None of these fixed deposits. Not now. They "Now you must gain their confidence again." We told them, "We have nothing against you. But you deal properly, then again we'll deposit. But deal properly in a businesslike way." We have nothing against them. Punjab Bank is a good bank. Anyway, it's settled now, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's finished. I wanted you to know that it's been successfully completed due to Girirāja's good efforts. Girirāja went to Bombay. His parents went with him.

Prabhupāda: You said this Trivedi is worse than him?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Devotee: Prabhupāda, I've seen his treatment. He's the...

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that he is very rough, this Trivedi. He'll be taken away. This is just temporary. Immediately they got rid of Gupta because they knew that we were very much dissatisfied. And Trivedi is just a temporary replacement for Gupta. As soon as the man is sent from Delhi, then this Trivedi will be taken away.

Prabhupāda: So they're going to send a ma...

Doctor Visit and Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You have got any (indistinct). Where is Girirāja?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He went into the city today for picking up the fixed deposit receipts. That was the main thing.

Prabhupāda: City?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Delhi. Because the receipts are being turned over to the head office, so they have to be endorsed there. So he went for that purpose. There's not much more to do now with this Panchashil flat, because we're going to give it. So simply it will be up to Vrindavan to make up the necessary document for transferring it. I think it doesn't even require a big document. Simply a letter on behalf of Your Divine Grace saying that "We give this apartment to you."

Prabhupāda: But one thing, if they can dispose?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they may try and sell it.

Prabhupāda: No, no, I don't want that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but when you give them that, that's what they may do.

Prabhupāda: Then don't give him. Let them live there, but...

Doctor Visit and Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Why they stop kīrtana? (kīrtana starts again)

Hari-śauri: Upendra's brought some ice cream.

Kīrtanānanda: Very cold. We sprinkled a little cardamom on it. Nice?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Kīrtanānanda: Jaya. I have water. Can you drink? (Prabhupāda swallows) More water? Little more.

Hari-śauri: I was in Delhi yesterday, and I spoke to one of the temple presidents in Australia, and he gave me a very encouraging report. He said that all the Indian Gītās that we got just recently from Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, now they've almost completely finished. Over eleven thousand they've distributed in just a few weeks.

Prabhupāda: Hm!

Hari-śauri: That's very good. Since you've been here in Vṛndāvana, I sent them a telegram that now they have to distribute more books so that Lord Kṛṣṇa will be pleased and allow you to stay with us. So they've doubled up since then. Now they're almost run out, they've distributed so many. (break) He said that up on the farm also things are going very nicely. Many, many people are coming now to see how we are living. And for Govardhana Pūjā they are planning a two-day festival. They're expecting to get many hundreds of people coming. Your farm is already very well known now up in that area, and people are becoming very interested to see what we have to offer. In the immediate district where our farm is, many people have tried to start communes—these hippies and people like this. But they've never been successful because they've never had any central point to agree on. Everybody's simply gone their..., lived their own way. But within a few months now, some of the more serious people have seen that within just three or four months we have achieved more on our farm than any of these communes have done in the last six years. So they're becoming very attracted to come and stay with us, and they appreciate the kīrtana and prasādam very much. (end)

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a fast train from Delhi to Calcutta, just like the train you came in. We can get a... Yes. It's called Raj-dhani. It's a very fast train.

Bhavānanda: And they have a sleeper on it also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's all air-conditioned.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Just like this train you came by. It will be air-conditioned, but have some un-air-conditioned compartments.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyway, that won't be difficult to take you. It's not difficult. Any jumbos flying from Delhi?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I can check on that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, it has to be a jumbo.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They have Airbus.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's useless. There's no benefit in Airbuses. The seats are the same in Airbus. There's no first class.

Bhavānanda: When you're feeling stronger, then the veranda is there for nice stroll.

Prabhupāda: There is ample space.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think change is good also sometimes. So we should make that program?

Prabhupāda: I think so.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Where? Śrī Raṅgam.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So the man must be very... He's not so smārta. Because he will allow Westerners to live with him, he's favorable. So Smara-hari, one of the devotees here... We felt that if we do not find from Jalan or anyone a good kavirāja in Calcutta, then let us send two devotees to Śrī Raṅgam to meet with this head pūjārī and get his help for finding out a proper Rāmānuja kavirāja and bring him to Māyāpur. And immediately let us go to Māyāpur. Why should we sit here waiting here? Because actually we don't find any benefit from waiting here. The idea was to give change of climate, and what is the purpose of waiting for that to happen? Because we're not gaining anything by staying here except that the weather is becoming colder, so it becomes more and more dangerous to travel in cold weather. And as far as bringing a kavirāja goes, now we've already seen there's not going to be one in Vṛndāvana, so at best, we'd have to bring him from Delhi. But whether a man has to come from Delhi or come from Śrī Raṅgam, he's going to have to come and visit and stay with us. And once the treatment begins, if we get a Delhi kavirāja, he's going to have to keep coming down here. We don't want to have to stay here for more than one or two weeks. But the treatment is going to be longer than two weeks. So then we'll be stuck here. If we depend upon a Delhi kavirāja we'll be stuck here. Best thing is someone from Calcutta, because then they can come frequently to Māyāpur. But in the event that we cannot get someone from Calcutta, then we should take the help of one kavirāja from South India. And your dream was that it was a Rāmānuja kavirāja who was preparing the medicine. I think that after it's prepared he may administer the medicine for some time, but afterwards we can find another kavirāja. If he has to return to South, then another kavirāja may continue the treatment.

Prabhupāda: There is no treatment.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It goes direct?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. Delhi-Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Then arrange for that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah? It's a lot easier. Plane travel is easier.

Prabhupāda: Ah, ah.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's no doubt about that. It's so much easier and so much quicker.

Haṁsadūta: You should ask Prabhupāda about the stretcher. It may be necessary.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He knows that it can be done. I've seen people laying out in stretchers. It's disgusting. It's disgusting. People come by and you're laying right on the ground.

Haṁsadūta: Oh, on the ground?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. And they walk right by you, and their feet are right next to your head. It's most dishonorable and disrespectful. You feel... You feel every bit of being a patient.

Haṁsadūta: Don't they have private planes?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, Prabhupāda doesn't want. (talking in background amongst devotees) I already suggested that in London to Prabhupāda, and he wouldn't do it. I mean it's very difficult to arrange these things in India, private plane, you know, without a lot of advance, like twenty thousand, thirty thousand rupees.

Hari-śauri: Private plane? Yes, and then it would have to be a propeller plane, too. They're hellish. Phew! We traveled on those to Chandigarh.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It will take time, as he said.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (aside:) Paper... My pad is in... That man said it would take time. A week. Of course, we don't know if that's a fact or not. But it'll take about a week's time if it only takes a day or two. If it takes a week, then it may take a total of two weeks time until he reaches Māyāpur. When Gopāla and Śatadhanya were in Delhi, they went to see one man who was a very important Marwari kavirāja. They asked him about the ingredients of makara-dhvaja.

Brahmānanda: They asked that question about what medicine the poor man would take.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What medicine the poor man would take. So he said, "Poor man or rich man, it doesn't matter. The price of it is about forty-eight rupees per tolā, because the gold that is given, it's given back at the end." It's just passed through, the gold. It's not utilized itself. So forty-eight rupees a tolā. This is what he said, very big Marwari kavirāja.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that I have heard.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Something. Anyway, before we leave I'm going to speak with Bhagatji. Bhagatji is the one who gave the gold and pearls to Vanamali. So I think Bhagatji will be able to recover it. We'll leave this medicine with Bhagatji, and he can give the medicine to Vanamali and take the money. So Smara-hari will be leaving today, just now. And we've already spoken with Delhi, and they're already going to purchase the airline tickets. Either we will leave Wednesday... Today is Monday. Either we will leave Wednesday or we will leave Friday. We're not going to travel on Thursday. And they've already informed Calcutta and Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: Who will go with me?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your Divine Grace, Bhavānanda Mahārāja, myself, Bhakti-caru Mahārāja, Śatadhanya Mahārāja, Upendra Prabhu, Svarūpa Dāmodara, Bharadvāja. That'll be on the plane. Then in the train, Pradyumna, Arundhatī, some other devotees also. So eight of us will be going on the plane with you, seven plus Your Divine Grace, and you will have three seats. Altogether, we're purchasing ten seats. So I don't think there will be any difficulty. We're going in full team. Scientist is with us. In case of any special knowledge, Svarūpa Dāmodara will be there. Bhavānanda with his gun. (laughter) Full team. I think it will be a nice journey, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: I hope.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So now you'll have your bath, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: And the other one is that Ādi-keśava Mahārāja, he has a friend in Delhi named Chandi Das. He's a big yogi, I think?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, he's from America.

Bhavānanda: He has quite a bit of money. And so Ādi-keśava called him up, and he had a kavirāja in the Rāmānuja-sampradāya. And Chandi Das went to see his kavirāja, and his kavirāja had just gotten finished mixing makara-dhvaja medicine. He'd been preparing it for the past ten days. And Śatadhanya Mahārāja and Ādi-keśava were just now going over to see this kavirāja. That Chandi Das has purchased seven tolās of the medicine for Your Divine Grace as a gift. They are going over to pick it up.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Just see. Kṛṣṇa arranges. Just see.

Trivikrama: Kṛṣṇa's so kind.

Prabhupāda: Very good. No, I saw somebody, Rāmānuja-sampradāya. He is preparing for me. This is all Kṛṣṇa's plan. It is being prepared in Delhi, and He is giving information and doing. So very good news.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: More chanting?

Prabhupāda: Chanting is our life.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Chanting is our life.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So there's no need to send anyone to South India.

Prabhupāda: I have got it already.

Bhavānanda: And that kavirāja in Delhi said that no, the gold is absorbed in the medicine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These events are all like a dramatical play, Śrīla Prabhupāda, great drama. It's simply like reading the Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

Prabhupāda: Ebe jaśa ghuṣuk tribhuvana. He has contributed seven tolās? Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So now you will get both things, the makara-dhvaja and Māyāpur. Kṛṣṇa was showing you while he was making it, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Prabhupāda was watching him make it. Kṛṣṇa gave him the vision to see.

Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa, God. He gave me information.

Trivikrama: Just like Sañjaya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These activities are all as wonderful, Śrīla Prabhupāda, as the books you have written. We are seeing that you are one of those personalities, as great as the personalities you've written about.

Prabhupāda: So dose, everything, take detail.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa, God. He gave me information.

Trivikrama: Just like Sañjaya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These activities are all as wonderful, Śrīla Prabhupāda, as the books you have written. We are seeing that you are one of those personalities, as great as the personalities you've written about.

Prabhupāda: So dose, everything, take detail.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have to take detail of the dosage and everything about it.

Bhavānanda: Yes. They're going to get all of that tonight.

Prabhupāda: Then hold some festival in Delhi. Invite all the men who...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Invite those men?

Prabhupāda: Spend some money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We should hold it. And invite the men who contributed?

Prabhupāda: Hm! (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kīrtana. (end)

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I can sit up. (break) (devotees chanting japa) Bhavānanda, you can take little oil and...

Bhavānanda: Yes. (devotees chant japa) (break) Śrīla Prabhupāda? Śatadhanya Mahārāja has come.

Śatadhanya: I have brought the makara-dhvaja from the kavirāja in Delhi. This kavirāja, he's not Rāmānuja-sampradāya, but many people say in Delhi that he's the foremost kavirāja in India. He treats the Prime Minister, Morarji Desai, and all the ministers also. So many people trusted him, and he mixed this medicine... He was mixing it for some other person, but when he heard that you were ill, he gave it to us.

Bhavānanda: What kind of makara-dhvaja?

Śatadhanya: There's different kinds of makara-dhvaja, six kinds. This is the most potent kind. This is called siddha makara-dhvaja. This contains gold and pearl and musk and mica and many other ingredients.

Bhavānanda: And what are the other ingredients you have to take it with?

Śatadhanya: You can take it with either honey or milk. But he recommended that for Prabhupāda's particular condition he take it with honey.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. What did he charge?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What did he charge?

Śatadhanya: Nothing. We got it for free because we got it through one influential man named Chandra Swami.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That was our biggest problem. The president of India is presently in Hyderabad, so Mahāṁśa Mahārāja was in Delhi, and we have a life member, Panilal Peddy in Hyderabad, Polareddy, who knows the President very well. So I asked Mahāṁśa Mahārāja to go with Polareddy to the President to see if he will come to Bombay to inaugurate our temple. Also we are thinking of inviting some foreign ministers of countries like Nepal, which is a Hindu kingdom, and Mauritius. Because if these foreign ministers or some minister from these countries come, then it will lend more credit, and we'll get better coverage.

Prabhupāda: You can show our South African success.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very grand opening is being planned for Bombay, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So many.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: If the President of India comes, then it will get front-page coverage.

Prabhupāda: Who is the President?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who is the President now?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Ansen Jiwar(?) Reddy. He's more religious than the previous one.

Prabhupāda: Ansen(?) Reddy, he was Home Minister? No.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In Delhi. And Prabhupāda met him and asked him for the same thing, for visas.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. You've been asking this for quite a few years, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I think if Indira Gandhi would have been in power we wouldn't have got it. But Janata Party is better for us. Because Indira... Brahmānanda Reddy would always say he'd give it—I saw him several times—but do nothing. (break) ...Party's a little more positive in this direction.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What will they give? Will they give you a letter officially, or something?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And plus they're writing a letter to the Indian embassies abroad that if any ISKCON devotee applies, he should be given a three-year visa straight.

Prabhupāda: That will be nice.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. But I was just speaking to Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja that the GBCs, we should devise a policy so that this advantage is not misused. Because sometimes devotees just come over here, stay here for some time, do some nonsense and go back.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then they may take away this permission.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I also spoke to the Chinese Embassy in Delhi yesterday. I said I'd like to go to China, and I wanted to find out what the possibilities were. So they said since I have Canadian citizenship, they said I should write to the Chinese Embassy in Ottawa. I told them I'm from a publishing house that publishes books on ancient Indian culture. And I found out that they do not teach any Sanskrit in China, but they have Hindi and Urdu departments. Peking University has a Department on Asian studies that teaches Hindi and Urdu.

Prabhupāda: Let us introduce in Hindi.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Our Hindi books. And actually that man I spoke to on the phone, he spoke such fluent Hindi I had to ask him three times if he's Chinese or Indian. He was Chinese.

Prabhupāda: No, in Calcutta we have got many Chinese. They speak fluently.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This Chinese was from Peking, not Indian-born. And also I was thinking we can say that Bhaktivedanta Book Trust is one of the biggest printers in the world, and we are seriously thinking of buying Chinese paper for printing. And we can buy Chinese paper if it's good, because I found out that Chinese paper is as good as Japanese paper and it is cheaper.

Prabhupāda: No, we can print there also in China.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And I'm also going to Delhi in the morning, so Śrīla Prabhupāda... (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I agree with your suggestion, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I think it's a good idea to stop the medicine for a day and to consult the kavirāja, and also to try to drink something else besides only fruit juice. I think the medicine should be stopped for a day. Haṁsadūta... I was talking with him. He said that he sometimes would do these fruit juice diets. In America this is something that's done a lot of times. He said when he would take this fruit juice diet, he said there's no question of passing stool. He said when you take fruit juice diets you don't pass stool because there's nothing... He says eventually you just pass urine. So the fact that Prabhupāda is passing stool is very unnatural, at least for taking fruit juice. He's not eating anything, so how can he pass stool four times? What is the stool coming from if he's not eating?

Prabhupāda: Whatever little blood is there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Whatever little blood is there.

Bhavānanda: I think it's a mistake, Śrīla Prabhupāda, to take this strong medicine without having the kavirāja actually come and diagnose himself and...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He cannot come?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it will be the same as the man from Delhi. He can't come and stay here and give up his practice. He stays in Calcutta, so... He won't be able to simply come and then... He'll leave, and then we won't be able to consult. The idea is that the man has to be here every day.

Prabhupāda: No. If he Rāmānujī kavirāja gives makara-dhvaja, that is the last. If he...

Bhavānanda: He'll only have to come once, you mean, and prescribe makara-dhvaja.

Prabhupāda: No... (break) ...said there is a good kavirāja?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't know how it is that approved this one, but according to Gopāla, Jayapatākā says that he's arranged one Rāmānujī kavirāja.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Bhavānanda: Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Why not consult him?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we'd have to go there.

Prabhupāda: Go.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. If somebody goes and brings him, then he decides. Then we shall go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Svarūpa Dāmodara, you could call direct to Calcutta and talk with Adri-dhāraṇa, who has contacted him, and let him discuss and see if he can bring him here. First of all, he should ask whether the man is willing. We can fly him here to Delhi and bring him here. I'm sure he'll agree to that. But it should be... He should be...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I can call from Delhi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. You could call Adri-dhāraṇa. He's the one who found the man. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...bring one Rāmānuja. He has the makara-dhvaja. So if... Bhavānanda has suggested, somebody very responsible go and bring him. And then, if we can, we shall go together. Hm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: In the meantime, all medicine stopped. Hm?

Bhavānanda: There's no loss in stopping the medicine at this point, because this medicine is not improving your condition.

Prabhupāda: No.

Bhavānanda: We want some positive improvement.

Prabhupāda: If in the meantime I die without medicine, so I am dying. What is wrong? The parikrama may go on.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Liquid, from practical suggestion, I'll take little vegetable juice, that's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And fruit juice also.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhavānanda: No loss in taking fruit juice. When you were not taking the medicine a few days back, you were taking fruit juice every day and not passing stool. When you were in Delhi and Prabhupāda was taking fruit juice every day, he was not passing stool. So there's no loss. We can take vegetable juice, fruit juice, vegetable broth. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...reacting adversely. That is proved. Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it seems so.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's two days that we started this medicine.

Prabhupāda: And jāniyā śuniyā viṣa khāinu. It is acting adversely. If still I take, then, knowingly...

Trivikrama: Drinking poison.

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we shouldn't consult with this kavirāja anyway? Because this is his medicine.

Prabhupāda: No, consulting... When we want direct treatment, how you can consult him?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We can at least tell the report. We can at least inform him that after taking this medicine we have such-and-such symptoms, so...

Bhavānanda: Still, that's fourth-hand information. And he's not a Rāmānuja sampradāya. The only reason we were looking... We were looking for makara-dhvaja... (end)

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What you are doing?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: With the press from the Indian Express and other newspapers. And also I went to the television and the All-India Radio for the engagement. And also I wanted to discuss with some of my members the immediate plan that we have. So I sent one to Bombay to organize a conference. So I'll try to cover this area very quickly, Agra, Delhi, and Punjab. I'm meeting a lot of scientists. And also I collected several copies of the newspaper, The Statesman. I went to the Statesman building, collected the newspaper coverings. How are you feeling, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That kavirāja did not come?

Upendra: What happened? No one knows. They left. They say he left Calcutta at twelve o'clock flight.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I could have gone to the airport. Maybe they are coming tomorrow on the train, Taj Express?

Upendra: No, by air they came.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, from Delhi. I thought that maybe he didn't know that, Adri...? If it starts from Calcutta at twelve o'clock, it should be arriving at Delhi about two o'clock.

Upendra: Then let's say one hour, then three to here.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There's a train at five o'clock that I came by, train, five o'clock. It's a very good train. Maybe they didn't know that train. It starts from Nizammudin Station. So if they're planning to come by train tomorrow, the Taj Express is at seven o'clock in the morning, arriving Mathurā at nine o'clock.

Upendra: Someone could call Delhi.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I don't know whether they're in the temple or not. I think some of our men came from Delhi temple about four o'clock, arrived in the temple. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And we discussed a number of points. One thing is that I talked to him about Panchashil flat. So I explained to him that he should feel the responsibility for paying for the living there, as we have given him this nice place. So he's agreed to do that. And I told him that whatever he pays, the receipts should be in your name, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami. Apparently the receipts have been issued in the name of M. M. De. So I told him don't do that, because if they get the receipts in their name then they become the tenant. I don't want that. They're living there as our guest, not as tenants. So he agreed to that. As soon as I mentioned it, he understood what I was talking about. M. M. is a little clever. So then I told him, however, that the permanent electricity was never hooked up. Permanent electricity line was never installed. So since that was an initial giving of the flat, I told him that if he paid for half of that, we would pay the other half. I said but first of all he has to pay and send me the receipt showing that he's paid. It's about 650 rupees.

Prabhupāda: Six hundred and fifty?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Half.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I don't think so.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean verbal agreement is enough, isn't it, in dealing with him? I would think so. I mean I thought it was sufficient if he agrees verbally. No contract or loan agreement. He wants to pay this money back by April. I didn't tell him he had to. I told him it was a donation. He seems to want to pay it back. So let him if he wants to. Then he wanted me to arrange, so I'm sending... I gave the receipts to him as you saw. I'm sending the letter... I'm sending a man to Delhi tomorrow to get a ticket for him, airline ticket.

Prabhupāda: Where he is?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's gone to take his meals now. Then he's going to take rest, he said.

Prabhupāda: And he has got the papers?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He gave them back to me to keep in the almirah locked up. He said until he goes he wants me to keep them carefully. I said all right. And I'm getting him a ticket as well as sending the letters by special mail service to Bombay for Girirāja's signature, so that at least from our side there will not be any reason to delay. And when I showed him the letter that I had written to the bank, he was very satisfied. He could understand that there should be no difficulty now. He was quite confident after reading the letter. The letter is very clearly written, and with the power of attorney it's a complete document. I think everything was done all right. He seemed to be satisfied.

Prabhupāda: So what about kavirāja? He might think it is a whimsical. And that was my last desire. You could not.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhakti-caru: Another thing is I think this noon flight is not a direct flight. It's a Kanadu(?) that hops, say, from Calcutta, Benares, Allahabad, Lucknow, Delhi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. So how many hours could that be?

Bhakti-caru: Five, six hours. Takes a long time. And it's not as fast as Boeing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means it would arrive at 6:30 or 7:00. I think that by tomorrow noon, if they didn't come, then we would have to say that the matter has become hopeless for them coming. And really it's a fact, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that you've been resting today without taking any medicine is not a bad thing.

Bhakti-caru: And the passing stool has stopped.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that stopped. That's the main thing. That was the disturbance. The stool was passing. So many people are coming to the temple here, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Many pilgrims. The temple is full of people all the time. Lots of pilgrims coming. Devotees were saying that in other temples there's not so much activity. Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma are attracting all of the people of the land. Everyone is attracted to Them. But it seems like Rādhā-Śyāmasundara are equally popular. People like Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa very much, and especially in Vṛndāvana. But Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma is unique. I hear them exclaiming. They are at once surprised and pleased to see the two brothers together.

Bhakti-caru: And the śṛṅgāra is so unique here. It's the best.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, everyone says the śṛṅgāra is the best. But for flowers we have not yet the best. So we have to make that. Bhavānanda Mahārāja was suggesting a program, Śrīla Prabhupāda. He was suggesting that in that open land on the side of the Gurukula, that we could build a prasādam pavilion, and we could serve the public every day free prasādam at noon time. That might become very popular in Vṛndāvana. Ḍāl and cāpāṭis. All the sādhus would come. I don't know if it's a good idea, but he was suggesting.

Prabhupāda: Good idea. Very good idea.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I think he can have the... I do not know.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I also do not know the procedure. (break)

Vrindavan De: The 7th November is the last date to confirm them, and I shall be going back by 3rd or 4th of... Of course, tickets available. I shall send my man to Delhi, and he'll arrange everything about books supplying and so on.

Prabhupāda: How much you have got?

Brahmānanda: How much you have got?

Vrindavan De: That money? Or that...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Generally how much cash do you have?

Vrindavan De: Cash? At present? Only ten thousand, eight thousand or nine thousand, something like that.

Prabhupāda: So arrange to give him that 47,000.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no. To Vrinda Book Company. And I'll get that letter signed by Girirāja also. The fact is, you don't need that letter before the 7th of November, because that's when the payment has to be made. You follow? There's plenty of time. There's ten days' time. For me to give a letter... The letter will be taken to Delhi. It will reach Bombay on Monday. Definitely. I'll send it by QMS. They'll send it to Calcutta by QMS. It will reach by Tuesday. It will reach by the 1st, 2nd or 3rd of the month.

Vrindavan De: Tuesday evening possibly.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By the 2nd or 3rd of the month it will reach. Plenty of time for you to act on it.

Vrindavan De: I should be back by 3rd or 4th.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You should be back as soon as possible to start working on this. If I were you, I would not lose time. I would act quickly on it. And from our side, I'm sure this will work. I guarantee it will work.

Vrindavan De: If it works, then we have no...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It must work, because they have to honor the power of attorney. I'll give you the copy of the power of attorney. It's completely bona fide.

Vrindavan De: You arrange everything, write down all these and signing, put your signature on the letters?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I'll do that.

Vrindavan De: But I may not come back in a very short time, if I have to come within a month. For this work I may not find out any time to come over here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, you won't have to come back for this business. This business will be done properly.

Vrindavan De: But I must see my father, after all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That you may come every day. But from this business, this will work. We'll give a letter to the bank...

Vrindavan De: For the little later the work should not be hampered. I want that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, it won't be hampered.

Prabhupāda: You give me. He'll go.(?)

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Vrindavan De: Calcutta from Delhi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So?

Vrindavan De: Then where should I stay in the night? It leaves at eight o'clock in the morning to Calcutta.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Stay at our temple.

Vrindavan De: Toofan is better I think.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If available.

Vrindavan De: As this Mail from here, Mathurā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So where to get the...? I don't want to get the tickets from Mathurā. I want to get the tickets from Delhi. That is my point. I will arrange to purchase a ticket from Delhi.

Vrindavan De: But where can I stay in the night?

Prabhupāda: Or you can go by plane. We shall pay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. His only point is where he will stay at night. But I'm telling him he can stay in our Delhi center very comfortably. See, if we get the tickets from Delhi I can arrange... There's no... The main thing is I want to purchase the ticket originating in Delhi. Then you have a confirmed reservation.

Vrindavan De: Because a Deluxe leaves in the afternoon. That would be better.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Deluxe from Delhi. So it passes by Tundla. So you can pick it up there. You don't even have to go all the way to Delhi.

Vrindavan De: No, if I can start in the morning I can reach by two or three o'clock.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But even if you have to go in the morning from Delhi, I can arrange for your accommodation in Delhi very nicely. My letter to them will give you very good accommodation in Delhi center, very comfortable. You're not inconvenienced here. You're staying overnight here.

Prabhupāda: You can return to Delhi in the after...

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See, because I know you can get reservations immediately to go to Calcutta from Delhi. (aside:) You were just there. You know that. Because there's so many trains going, Delhi-Calcutta, and if you purchase the ticket here or if you purchase the ticket from Mathurā you'll wait ten days. Remember how we had to wait?

Vrindavan De: Last time I paid ten rupees as bribe.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And even then we couldn't get immediately. But in Delhi we can get it immediately. Especially with foreign quota, it's very easy. They give immediately ticket. You can get the same night. So I'll arrange that.

Vrindavan De: So I can go to Delhi day after tomorrow.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Like that. I'll arrange and I'll give you a letter. You go. In any case you go to the Delhi temple. Today itself...

Vrindavan De: I don't know the place.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll give you all details. And I'll make all of the arrangements for you to be able to go. Today itself we'll purchase the ticket, and then they'll telephone us what day the ticket is for. That's not difficult. I'll send a man also. Did you have your bath yet?

Vrindavan De: Not yet.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You've got a room yet?

Vrindavan De: Not yet.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So I'm going to arrange for his room and everything, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Vrindavan De: (Bengali) Somebody has arrived on 13th from Bombay?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To where?

Vrindavan De: To Vṛndāvana.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Thirteenth. Thirtieth October someone is coming?

Vrindavan De: Thirteenth.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your man, you mean?

Vrindavan De: My man met with Gopāla Kṛṣṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't know.

Vrindavan De: (Bengali) Because my man arrived on 4th, and he came back on 6th because Dhana Jani(?) was already booked from Calcutta. He delivered some fruits or something to your devotee in Bombay. I don't think that... There is a list...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we never got. I don't think we got.

Vrindavan De: And we have also sent some letter with Gopāla Kṛṣṇa. Never received?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That I think we received. We got a lot of letters from you. None of them were replied because of Prabhupāda's health.

Vrindavan De: (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I got seven or eight letters from you.

Vrindavan De: There was no tickets available before 10th or 11th.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To where?

Vrindavan De: To, by Toofan.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, Toofan is hopeless.

Vrindavan De: Even by Calcutta.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, but we'll get from Delhi side. That was pūjā time.

Vrindavan De: First I got a ticket on 30th.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If I don't get the ticket by train, then I'll book a plane ticket.

Vrindavan: Train is... And I'm not a man of that position.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Let us see. If necessary we'll... In any case we're paying for your..., always, whenever you come to see Prabhupāda. So let us first try for train, and if we see that...

Prabhupāda: That we can pay.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So what about this kavirāja?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śatadhanya just placed a lightning call to Delhi to see if they've heard anything. Otherwise, if he doesn't hear anything, he may have to go to Calcutta himself. One thing is that I did not expect that within... You know, as we called this morning, I did not expect that the man would come here by this afternoon. I mean a thing like this has to take a least a day's time. The man has to be informed...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Whether actually any talk was there?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, Jayapatākā... The original message came from Jayapatākā to Gopāla Kṛṣṇa in Delhi, and he said that he had personally, so far Gopāla told me that this was coming from Jayapatākā, that Jayapatākā told him...

Prabhupāda: Where is Gopāla?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's in Bombay.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The kavirāja has not come?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not so far, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Śatadhanya Mahārāja got information that they have left for Delhi on the plane at about noontime, which means they would have arrived about three o'clock in Delhi. So it's now 6:30, 6:25, which would mean that they should be here very shortly.

Prabhupāda: So they have arrived?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, if they got on the plane they should have arrived.

Prabhupāda: What is time now?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the time now? About 6:25. Do you think you passed stool again, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: I do not know. Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Upendra is checking.

Prabhupāda: What is going on outside?

Trivikrama: Ārati just... Nanda-kumāra just came.

Upendra: I can't see what is...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Upendra couldn't tell. Are you feeling tired still?

Prabhupāda: You are not bringing the kavirāja?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, he hasn't come yet, no, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I think that if he comes any moment, it will have been very, very quick that he came. I mean actually...

Prabhupāda: If not, so that means hopeless.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Everything is theory.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, not really, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's not all theory. We spoke with the man. He went out and got the kavirāja. When we again called Calcutta we were informed that they had left on the plane. I mean there's no reason to suspect that people are lying to us, our own Godbrothers are lying to us. I mean it's so close to the time when they should arrive that we shouldn't become discouraged. I mean right now we could send Śatadhanya Mahārāja to Calcutta, but it would be very bad to do that, because the kavirāja may be five miles out of Vṛndāvana right now. Or he may have just reached Delhi if he came on this propeller plane. We have every reason to believe that he'll be here at any moment. We have no reason to feel that he shouldn't come.

Bhavānanda: He's definitely in transit, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's nothing at all to lead us to feel dismayed that they haven't..., he hasn't... For example... I mean we got the call through to Calcutta by 2:30, and they said that he got the kavirāja and they got on the plane and left. That's very, very positive information. I mean, imagine if someone had picked up the phone in Calcutta and said, "I don't know," or "He couldn't find the kavirāja." But they said, "He got the kavirāja and they got on the plane." That's very, very positive information. Maybe we should read a little bit. That will be a good diversion now.

Prabhupāda: What you'll read?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, the other night... I mean we could read SB.. I'm always eager for you to hear Bhāgavatam. I mean, I wanted to call... I always like to call Pradyumna and Jayādvaita. Of course, that requires... If you wanted to translate, you could make the effort. Otherwise Jayādvaita could read some of the edited work.

Bhakti-caru: He went to Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that Jayādvaita went to Delhi today. Why? (quietly) Irresponsible. He goes. He didn't even tell me. (break) ...read Kṛṣṇa book, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Who said lakhi....

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Vrindavan. He was saying that they're all big people living there. So I said, "That's good. It means a high class place. You don't move out of there." He said, "It is a good place."

Prabhupāda: Very first class place.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is first class. There's no doubt about it. I also got him a plane ticket. I sent a man to Delhi today, and we got the reservation. So he'll be leaving Vṛndāvana tomorrow morning at about 9:30, 9:00-9:30. So I told him that he should come and see you. He'll come in the morning to see you. He was... A couple of time you were sleeping today, so he could not come. Otherwise he was wanting to come.

Prabhupāda: So you guide him with his...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. I told him that you want me to help him in every way, and that there's no doubt we will do that in every way.

Prabhupāda: So about that traveling?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Travel exp... I talked to him, and I explained to him that he's taken ten thousand rupees for traveling expenses and twenty-five thousand rupees books, thirty-five thousand rupees, and he's paid six thousand rupees in two years. I said, "This is not good business."

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Why not open the Charity Trust account in Delhi?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Delhi?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I would think that for operating it, it would be a lot more... My idea was that it would be better to have it in the Māyāpur area itself, since it is primarily meant for spending... It is meant entirely for spending in Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi. My idea is that we would open the account in Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi area and give instruction to...

Prabhupāda: Gaura (indistinct) area where?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, right now our bank accounts are in Swarup Ganj, Bhavānanda Mahārāja?

Bhavānanda: We have in Swarup Ganj and Navadvīpa and Krishnanagar.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I felt we would open it in either Swarup Ganj or Navadvīpa.

Bhavānanda: Navadvīpa is good banks.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Navadvīpa. And give the standing instruction at that time to Parliament Street bank to transfer every month the interest. That was my idea. But for the time being we have to tell them what to do with the interest. So I thought instead of going to the botheration of opening new accounts at the Punjab Bank at Parliament Street, let them go on transferring it to your accounts here. And then, when we open the Charity Trust account, then I'll give them a fresh instruction.

Prabhupāda: What...? The... In the Punjab National Bank, fixed deposits in the name of?

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What...? The... In the Punjab National Bank, fixed deposits in the name of?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fixed deposits are in the name of... Five lakhs are in the name of Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma Temple Maintenance account, and five lakhs, sixty thousand in the name of Māyāpur-Vṛndāvana Trust.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So where they will kept?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The interest or the fixed deposits? The fixed deposits are in Delhi, and the interest, for now, for the next few months, I am instructing the bank to continue to transfer to the accounts here in Vṛndāvana that it's always been given to. Then when the Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust account is opened, I will issue a fresh instruction to the Parliament Street bank that the interest money should be transferred to that account in Navadvīpa or wherever we open the account. My idea was simply that since the money is to be spent in Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi, then when we write checks out, etcetera, from that account, it's much easier to encash it rather than having to go to Delhi for encashment.

Prabhupāda: No, why Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi? Whenever needed...

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I am prepared also. How many hours it will take altogether?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By plane?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It will take three hours to the Delhi airport. Then it will take..., say, three hours, then one hour before take-off is four hours. Two hours on the flight is six hours, and three hours to Māyāpur, total...

Bhavānanda: No. Four hours to Māyāpur, 'cause we'll go slow.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyway, within ten hours from this bed to your bed in Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: Ten hours?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maximum.

Prabhupāda: How ten hours?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Three hours from here to the Delhi airport. One hour at the Delhi airport makes four hours.

Prabhupāda: You are going to Delhi airport in three hours. Then?

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The kavirāja said he had some cough medicine to put in the milk.

Bhakti-caru: Yes. Yes. He gave it to me yesterday. But last night I didn't want to give the milk.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So what about now?

Bhakti-caru: Milk hasn't come. Next I will give. Say after about an hour. Now I will feed him the orange juice and...

Bhavānanda: Maybe after parikrama.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (break) How many plane go from Delhi?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a... Delhi, there's two flights. One is in the morning, and the other one is in the evening. Morning flight is at about six-thirty in the morning, six-forty in the morning, and the evening flight is quite late, about eight o'clock at night. We would want to take the morning flight. (end)

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You can provide five hundred students very easily.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Such a nice building. Who would not like to go to school here in Vṛndāvana? Nice, pure atmosphere. (break) (Bengali)

Śatadhanya: ...Vrindavan, he's going to Delhi. From Delhi he'll go to Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Oh, Vrindavan.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Vrindavan De: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: Where is the money? (Bengali) We cannot put fire in the flesh. (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Upendra, you should get Prabhupāda ready, because the parikrama's ready. (break)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Little swelling around the...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a little swelling today here, Śrīla Prabhupāda, around the eye. And the hands are kind of swollen.

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, I also gave a lecture on the life in its origin. In Mathurā there is one veterinary college, the biggest in Asia, about two hundred scholars. We also showed "Hare Kṛṣṇa Frontier," "Spiritual Frontier" movies. They liked very much. And we're having another lecture Thursday to be given by Thompson in All-India Institute of Medical Sciences. There will be about some two hundred, three hundred scholars from around Delhi. We'll be discussing about life in its origin. And also we are planning to give several lecture in Delhi University, in the mathematics, biology and physics departments.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We have also written books like this. This is a... (Bengali) This is our worldwide preaching program.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) No sentiment—"Come on"—scientific challenge. (Bengali) No theory. (Bengali-Prabhupāda telling about Dr. Kapoor and scientific conference, Fiji, etc.) (Bengali) Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here is Kṛṣṇa-kāliya, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Jaya. (more Bengali conversation) What is that?

Śatadhanya: Well, this is the Bhāgavata-darśana in Bengali.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali conversation, with devotees showing Godbrothers various news-clippings, books, etc.) (break) Just get the curtain and try for urine. You read.

Śatadhanya: Yes, Prabhupāda. It's set, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I was surprised that in morning he said, "I'm coming." Anyway better late than never.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. All glories.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All glories to you. (break) ...were saying.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Some of our men went to the Delhi University, they also met the Dean of Sciences, Delhi University. In fact they told him, he told them that there is news release. So in fact he kept the cutting of the newspaper to them. So they have read. So it seems to me that there's some good publicity. (break) Most of them knew that we were coming from the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Prabhupāda: A new light.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There's going to be an international symposium in Madras early next year about the what they call complex light molecules in evolution and there's going to be some Nobel prize winning scientists. So we'll be writing a letter to present our paper in that symposium. That's first week of January next year. If we can present one paper that will be I think quite good. (break)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi with Kavirāja)

Adri-dharaṇa: Did you have good rest last night, Prabhupāda?

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: At the end of the night.

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So as you think... But this morning I was fainting.

Bhakti-caru: That is because this parikrama is very strenuous, Śrīla Prabhupāda, this jerking and swinging.

Prabhupāda: So how...? How? How we can?

Brahmānanda: So three hours to Delhi, then the plane ride and then three hours to Māyāpur?

Bhakti-caru: No, I mean that is out of the question.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not out of the question. We were considering doing it. (laughter) It's only three hours away. (laughter)

Brahmānanda: The cars are coming.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The cars are coming. The tickets are booked. It's not out of the question. Śatadhanya's in Calcutta. (laughter)

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: How much he paid? (?)

Brahmānanda: Well, he was wanting to pay, but Nava-yogendra Mahārāja said it's all right... We asked him to become a member. He didn't want to pay so much money. So we gave him... Because he was an important officer, we gave him. Then he offered... He has some land 25 miles from Delhi, and he said, "We would like to give it for a Hindu temple."

Prabhupāda: Who was there, this meeting?

Brahmānanda: This meeting? Well, the meeting was led by the three men who came to see you this morning. The center was the man from Auroville, and then Mr. Nārāyaṇa and Mr. Bajaj.

Prabhupāda: So that will be three.

Brahmānanda: Yes. Of the three, Mr. Nārāyaṇa is very favorable to us. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami was noticing it. He preached to him about two or three years ago. At that time he was chief minister for Gujarat, governor.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? I want to suggest that you should not talk too much, because the doctor said conserve yourself. (indistinct) Because tomorrow we're going to be leaving at about two o'clock, two or two-thirty, so you won't get a full night's rest.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You are the most important (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Bon Mahārāja you did not see?

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So somebody else come near me. Tamāla?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: If somebody has come from Delhi, in that car could not come?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Someone has come from Delhi. The cars came.

Prabhupāda: But... No, no. It could not come in time.

Bhakti-caru: They couldn't come in time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The cars only came here by four o'clock.

Prabhupāda: Then?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it seems like it was Kṛṣṇa's desire that we didn't go. I was pretty shocked when I saw that the cars only arrived by four o'clock in the morning. There was no way that we would have been able to go on time.

Prabhupāda: So what is to be done now?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is to be done now? Well, we're going to stay here for ten days or so, and you'll get better. When you get stronger, then we can attempt this trip. We have to hope that you'll get stronger now. Did you take all the medicine, Bhakti-caru, from the kavirāja?

Bhakti-caru: Yes. He made all the medicines till eleven o'clock.

Prabhupāda: So we shall wait. We shall wait.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Svarūpa Dāmodara?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's not here right now, but they are here in Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: He has gone to Delhi?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He came back last night.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So think over. I am unable to do now. I can simply give you warning. It is very dangerous. Hm?

Jayādvaita: We have so many experiences that someone associates with these people and he loses his status.

Prabhupāda: They can warn us that "Don't speak of Gītā," and why shall I allow them to speak? Eh?

Bhavānanda: That is such an insult, especially it's our facility. And as soon as you rent out to people, then you are compromised that they can tell you not to speak of Gītā at their Gītā conference in your hall. And you have to listen because they're giving you money.

Akṣayānanda: Because they're paying.

Bhavānanda: It's outrageous.

Prabhupāda: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa? Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) What happened to the car?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Er, do you know the history?

Bhakti-caru: Yes. First thing they had a flat tire. Then they ran out of gas, and then there was no petrol station. Then they lost the track. They went to some...

Prabhupāda: So he missed the plane.

Śrī Nārāyaṇa: Missed the plane. Coming from Delhi?

Bhakti-caru: Yes. They were supposed to come here at two o'clock.

Prabhupāda: I have got my car, but they arranged for a Mercedes car.

Śrī Nārāyaṇa: Mercedes car, bigger car, yes. Oh, I see. So that means God didn't want you to leave. (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: This is Indian culture.

Śrī Nārāyaṇa: Indian culture, Gītā culture. (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7). (Hindi) Whenever there are discrepancies in the human society—tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham—at that time He appears. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). This is the program. And when He comes, the time is fixed. So unless one thoroughly studies, they cannot accept. Actually Kṛṣṇa... Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). This system, Bhagavad-gītā, it is yoga, bhakti-yoga. Bhakti-yoga is the topmost.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Where?

Brahmānanda: In Delhi. (break)

Prabhupāda: Jaya. (Hindi)

Guest (1): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) There is good demand all over the world. (Hindi) "Kṛṣṇa is not person; Kṛṣṇa is consciousness." (Hindi) Kṛṣṇa personally speaking, and "He is consciousness." He says, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). "I come down." (Hindi) Māyāvādī. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has condemned, māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa (CC Madhya 6.169). (Hindi) Yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. Kṛṣṇa said that "I am speaking to you the old yoga system." (Hindi) ...not my interpretation. (Hindi) (break) Kṛṣṇa is person. Where is that verse in the Tenth Canto?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In the Bhagavad-gītā?

Prabhupāda: Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12).

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, here. We... Just describe.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We had a science conference here in Gurukula just about a little more than a week ago.

Śrī Nārāyaṇa: Here in this new building?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, the same building, at the same hall that you're going to hold your conference. I invited several scholars, scientists around Delhi and Agra. Also Śrīla Prabhupāda's disciples, scientist disciples, came from around the world. The basic theme was to show that life is coming from the supreme life. In other words everything is coming from Kṛṣṇa. But modern science says that we are just product of atoms and molecules.

Haṁsadūta: This is an article which was published in The Statesman, October 22nd, which covers this meeting. It says, "The Nonphysical View on the Origin of Species. Materialists and men of faith continue to disagree over the origins of life. According to the first group life is..." (break)

(Bhakti-caru and kavirāja-Bengali to end)

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What is the condition of the road?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This road is hopeless. We have to find an alternate way.

Bhakti-caru: How about going from Mathurā to Delhi by train?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Śrīla Prabhupāda, this morning you were asking for Bharadvāja? Here he is. We thought of a better way to go, Śrīla Prabhupāda, than car. We'll take the Taj Express from Mathurā to Delhi. It's quite a nice train ride. It takes only one hour and forty-five minutes, and it doesn't even stop one time.

Śatadhanya: I just took it from Delhi this morning. Very clean, very smooth.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We will have one devotee get on in Agra to reserve a compartment for us, and then we'll board it here in Mathurā, and it arrives in Delhi at about nine-thirty at night, nine forty-five. So then we'll spend the night in Delhi, resting, and then the following morning we'll take the morning flight to Calcutta and Māyāpur. This means also that you won't have to undergo any strenuous journey to Delhi and then immediately take a flight. The train journey is actually much easier than a car journey, and then we get the whole night to rest, which is also good. So basically it just means we take a plane and then the car ride to Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: So I simply go by car from here to Mathurā.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So I simply go by car from here to Mathurā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Then we take the Taj Express, which is nonstop to Delhi, then stay in the Delhi temple, which is also nice, overnight, and then we proceed on to Calcutta. The next morning we leave on the plane at six-thirty in the morning and we arrive in Calcutta by about eight-thirty, and we should arrive in Māyāpur by noon. Does it sound like a good plan? Now you simply should gain more and more strength, Śrīla Prabhupāda. This time, until the kavirāja comes, from now until then, you should rest as much as possible, take these medicines. I think it's having a positive effect. You mentioned this morning that when you sit up you feel a little stronger now. I think it's good that you're not taxing yourself in any way. That's important. Would you like to do something specific right now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: What shall I do? (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, Upendra's saying you might like to wash now your face and teeth. When does Prabhupāda wash his body?

Upendra: Two, approximately.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In the afternoon. Maybe I should read some news to you? What would you like to do now, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: How long it takes to go to Mathurā?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: From here to Mathurā? It would take about twenty minutes.

Prabhupāda: Not much.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean, within one hour of leaving here you'd be on your way to Delhi on the train. Another thing is that that Taj Express is very much on time. It's never late because it only stops one time between Agra and Delhi, and that's here in Mathurā. It's a very, very exacting train. So we can arrive fifteen minutes before the train is expected to arrive. We don't have to arrive hours before, or anything like that. It's... We'll also make a special arrangement with the train stationmaster that only when he sees that Your Divine Grace is settled comfortably in the train will the train proceed onwards.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Room Conversation -- November 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This thing? What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your signatures were fairly good. Some of them were very good. They remarked that the signature was strong... (break) I tried to make it as quick as possible. Now I have the receipts, and I will keep them locked in the almirah just like we did last time. And after about one week we'll be able to get the original documents after they've been registered. In the meantime, on Monday we're going to open up a bank account in the name of Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust in Punjab National Bank, New Delhi. Girirāja, who is the secretary of the Trust, and Bhavānanda Mahārāja, who are the treasurers, will open the account. So the interest from the fixed deposits will go directly into that account. Is that nice? That was your idea. And the bank will be happy that we're keeping the money in their bank. All of your plans are perfect, Śrīla Prabhupāda. And our perfection is simply to carry them out without changing in any way. You have such complete plans that we don't have to do anything new. We have to work our whole lifetime simply to carry out what you've planned. Even then we won't be able to complete everything. We'll have to trust to those who come after us to finish everything. So I'll just finish everything now with them, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and lock everything away, and then I'll come back. I don't want to leave Girirāja alone. It's nice to do everything together, two. I'll come right back afterwards. (break)

Prabhupāda: The Trust deed somebody may read.

Room Conversation -- November 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. They must be tired. They traveled all night long. The kavirāja didn't sleep at all, I heard. Is that true, Jayapatākā?

Jayapatākā: Yes. The flight was three hours delayed. Three hours he was sitting, and he didn't leave Calcutta... 8:00 flight left at 10:30, 11:00, and arrived in Delhi 1:00. Then it took to 5:00 to get here, so he's quite tired.

Prabhupāda: It did not start on time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, three hours delayed.

Jayapatākā: The flight was late.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So everyone can take rest now.

Jayapatākā: Just seeing Your Divine Grace gives us so much strength.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If you can just request Kṛṣṇa to allow you to stay, Śrīla Prabhupāda... Everyone wants you to stay. (end)

Room Conversation -- November 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Girirāja: Yes. He gave ten rupees.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Tamāla gave him ten rupees?

Girirāja: Yes. Śrīla Prabhupāda? Would you like soft kīrtana now, or quiet?

Prabhupāda: You were reading something?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.

Girirāja: Oh, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa. He's... (break) Yesterday I spent the day in Delhi, and I opened an account with the Punjab Bank in the name of Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust. And we also gave them a letter that the interest from the ten lakhs sixty thousand should go into that Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity account. And I took the original trust of the new trust, the original deed, and I made some photocopies and got them notarized by notary.

Prabhupāda: Photocopy of?

Girirāja: Of the trust deed forming the Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust.

Room Conversation -- November 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: How is the climate outside?

Lokanātha: There's not cold so far. Lucky I came today. It's good climate.

Haṁsadūta: At night it's a little chilly and in the day it's very pleasant and warm.

Prabhupāda: No, other parts of India.

Lokanātha: Are not. As we go towards the Himalaya it gets cold otherwise up to Delhi and Chandigarh same climate as it is here now. As soon as we go out into the mountains, it's very cold. Shivering. As we came to the place, wherever we went the same climate. Same as Vṛndāvana. It's a good climate.

Prabhupāda: So you come at four, have kīrtana (?). (break) I wish that you GBC manage very nicely and consider I am dead and let me try to travel all the tīrthasthāna. Without any responsibility. If I become recovered from this malady I shall come back and then I shall die in, what is it when the dead body is there, let them bring to Māyāpur and Vṛndāvana. I am thinking in this way. Bring little medicine and no medicine, little milk, and travel one place to another and if there is death, what is the lamentation? My age is ripe. In the open air and bullock cart or during daytime, eh? Or you can say semi-suicide, although living what consider me dead for the time. You manage and nowadays there is in India ample sunshine. So during daytime I shall travel and nighttime you make a camp under a tree. In this way let me travel all the tīrthas. I am thinking in this way.

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I am thinking I am lying here... (break)

Lokanātha: ...should ride in very nice carts, a chariot.

Prabhupāda: No, (indistinct). (laughter)

Lokanātha: I saw one in Maharastra. In Poona. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Hm. You can purchase immediately. (laughter)

Lokanātha: We'll have to design it. They're not ready-made like that. The kind which we want, the pull-on kind, with cover on top and nice arrangements, we have to design it and order it. Get it made. There's a place called Meerut, north of Delhi...

Prabhupāda: Therefore I sent you. You have got already experience.

Lokanātha: You said you want to make an experiment, so let us make an experiment with this hired bullock cart, and in few days' time...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So where will we go tomorrow if we go?

Prabhupāda: Govardhana?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Govardhana.

Page Title:Delhi (Conversations 1977)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:23 of Dec, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=211, Let=0
No. of Quotes:211