Degradation (Conv. 1975 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"degradation" |"degradations" |"degrade" |"degraded" |"degradedness" |"degrades" |"degrading"

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk Through the BBT Warehouse -- February 10, 1975, Los Angeles:

Kirtirāja: We are trying to arrange that now. All of these different... There are so many magazines we are trying to get our books listed in them. Śrīla Prabhupāda, here's a magazine which one Christian press nearby has printed, very fancy magazine, and they were distributing it for free. They just recently printed a letter and then sent this. They have gone from this to this because they cannot afford to do it any more. No one is giving them donations any more, so they've gone from big fancy magazine to a small, plain paper. This people would like to see, but now this just looks like garbage. They won't even read it.

Prabhupāda: So it has degraded.

Kirtirāja: Yes. We have gone from this to fancy.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is our catalog.

Kirtirāja: Yes, we are printing a new one now.

Prabhupāda: What are these?

Kirtirāja: Unfortunately those are returns. When people don't want the books, then they return them.

Rāmeśvara: Very few returns.

Kirtirāja: Very few, though.

Prabhupāda: Never mind. That is not as strong.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: What is that? No, by nature's way there is evolution, from dog to fox, fox to this, that, that. That is... There is a law. But again one can fall down. In this way one comes to the human form of body. That is the chance of self-realization. But if in the human form of life, he does not behave like a human being—he behaves like cats and dogs—then he gets again cats and dogs. So if by his work, he gets degradation to get the body like a dog, then again it will take millions of years to come to the human form of life. Therefore intelligent man should be very careful. He should not say, "I don't care." That is very risky life.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying that he thinks that not everyone's looking for God, but people should be asked whether they want to be something different than what they are, and he thinks we need something practical, not simply something of faith.

Morning Walk -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Hṛdayānanda: Another question, Prabhupāda. He said that you have stated that Kali-yuga will last for around 400,000 more years and then it will be finished and that the culture will gradually degrade, people will become very short and so on and so forth. So he's wondering if there will be geographical changes in the world or if the culture as we know it now will simply disappear and how the people will be... More or less, he's wondering what will become of the earth.

Prabhupāda: Because they will not get sufficient food, shelter, bodily necessities. Just like it is already declining, already declining. Just formerly in our childhood we saw the Western people very tall. Now they are not tall. They are decreasing already. (break) In the Western countries, still there are some but in other countries they are very lean, thin and drawn. Stature of the body will decrease. Memory will decrease. It is already taking place. So in this way, you just imagine, in 400,000 years after, what will be the condition. You take mathematical calculation.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Some way or other, if you go to God, that is very good. With motive or without motive, you have come to God, that is piety. That is better than to become impious. Impious men, they do not go to God. Just like nowadays nobody goes to church. Church are selling. Simply... Temples also. So now there are in India so many township development. They are constructing very fashionable houses, but no temples. Nobody is constructing temple. At the present moment everybody has become disinterested with anything religion and God. All over the world. That is degradation. Especially I am seeing in Bombay, that Juhu scheme, very nice houses are being manufactured. You have all seen. But nobody is constructing a temple. The modern economists, they say "nonproductive endeavor"—means there is no income. Simply you have to spend money for maintaining the temple. So they are not interested in nonproductive things. So this is degradation of the human society. Either as Christian or Hindu or Mohammedan, nobody is interested. A few may be interested.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Cannery? Anyway, so when they boil this onion, up to ten miles the good smell spread. (laughter) You see? And the whole atmosphere of Vṛndāvana is spoiled. Similarly, they are trying to refine oil, and the refuse will be thrown in the Yamunā. So the river Yamunā will be spoiled. Nobody will go to take bath. This is Indian government's policy. They think that this so-called spiritual fanaticism of India is the cause of India's material degradation. So this must be killed. Like the Russians.

Ambassador: Um hm. I know they think that sometimes. Even here there are people who think that.

Prabhupāda: Oh, they are thinking like that? But I heard that the king is very pious.

Ambassador: One of the big people here, I said to him—after I argued about this for hours—I said, "You are Western and I am Eastern, not the other way around." (laughs) Thank you very much. I shall take your leave?

Prabhupāda: So, give him prasāda. Give him the whole plate. (laughs) You can take whole plate. So I am very glad to see you.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Therefore in Islam religion the form is rejected because it will come to that. As soon as they think of form, they think of this material form, beautiful face of woman. That is degradation. Therefore we are strict not to conceive material form. That is Vedic conception. Apāni-pādaḥ javano grahītā: "He has no legs and no hands." This is... means denying the form. And next he says, the Vedas say, javano grahītā: "He can accept whatever you offer to Him." That means God has no material form, but He has form; otherwise how He can accept? How He can understand my love? So therefore in the original Islamism the form is not accepted. So that is Vedic description, form and formless. Formless means no material form, and form means spiritual form, simultaneous. Just like I am, you are. I am within the body, but I am not this body. This form not I am. But wherefrom the form of the body came into existence? Because I have got form. The sweater has got hand because I have got hand. The sweater is the covering. If I haven't got form, then how the sweater has got hand, the pant has got leg? So the pant practically is not the leg. The real leg is within the pant. Similarly, this is not my form; this is like pant, leg of the pant or hand of the coat. Real form is within, asmin dehe. That is not material form. If the real form I could see, you could see, then there was no controversy, the spirit.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: No, judgment is there everywhere. Unless there is judgment, how you can discriminate, "This is spiritual; this is material"? Judgment must be there for intelligent person. Otherwise how you can distinguish? We are distinguishing every moment—"This is good. This is bad"—in the relative world. So there is judgment. So God—the supreme judge. So as soon as there is question of judgment, then what is our position? There must be good and bad, so that if we have lived a very nice, good life, then by the judgment of God we get better position. And if we have not done so, then you get degraded position. Therefore, for human being it is very sanguine to understand how we are going to be judged by the Supreme. So if we are following the rules and regulation given by God, then the judgment will be better. And if we are not following the laws, the judgment will not be in favor. This is natural to conclude. Then we have to judge what is sin, what is piety, how to be pious, how one becomes sinful. So many things will come.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Therefore, Islam religion, (indistinct) reject it (indistinct). As soon as they think of form, they think of this material form, beautiful face of woman. That is degradation. Therefore, we are strict not to conceive material form. That is Vedic conception. Apāni-pādo javano grahitā. "He has no legs, no hands." This is denying the form. Next he says, Vedas says, javana grahitā. "He can accept whatever you offer to Him." That means He has, God has, no material form, but He has form, otherwise how He can accept it? How I can understand by love? So, therefore the original Islam the form is not accepted. That is Vedic description, form and formless. Formless means no material form and form means spiritual form, simultaneous. Just like I am, you are, I am within the body, but I am not this body. This form, I am not I am, but what from the form of the body has come into existence? Because I have got form. The sweater has got hand, because I have got hand. The sweater is the covering. If I haven't got form, then how the sweater has got hand, the pant has got leg? But the pant practically is not the leg, the real leg is within the pant. Similarly, this is not my form, this is like pant, leg of the pant or hand of the coat. Real form is within. Asmin dehe. That is not material form. If the real form I could see, you could see, then there would be no controversy, but they cannot see. Therefore, they say "formless". If it is formless then how the outward form comes about? How it can be?

Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, do that.

Atreya Ṛṣi: I cannot say "free of offenses." Because...

Prabhupāda: "Seriously" means without offense.

Atreya Ṛṣi: ...I am degraded. "Very seriously, or may be given to me from time to time directly, these directions, by my aforesaid Guru Mahārāja, or through his books, or..." In other words, direction given, instruction given, directly by him or through his...

Prabhupāda: Better directly.

Atreya Ṛṣi: No "His books"?

Prabhupāda: No.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Not necessary.

Prabhupāda: Because I may give direction according to the time.

Atreya Ṛṣi: "Or" means both.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: That is Bhagavad-gītā, that aviruddho-kāmo 'smi. "Sense gratification which is not against religious principles, that sense gratification I am," Kṛṣṇa says. We do not stop sense gratification, but we want to regulate sense gratification like a gentleman, not like hogs and dogs. That is human civilization. Sense gratification like hogs and dogs, not required. Sense gratification... People are following that. Although they are so degraded, still, they have not sanctioned as yet to have openly sense gratification on the street like hogs and dogs. That is regulated. That's still going on. But because the civilization is gliding down to animalism, they don't want this restriction. That is the hippies' protest, that, "Why this convention required? Let us enjoy like hogs and dogs." That is advancement.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Well, that is not done by the ācāryas. But there is no harm chanting "Rādhe." But sometimes it is degraded to make something new, invention. Therefore better to stick to "Hare Kṛṣṇa" and to "Śrī-Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Prabhupāda-Nityānanda." Otherwise... Just like the sahajiyās, they have invented: "Nitāi-Gaura Rādhe Śyāma, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Rāma." These things will come gradually. But they are not approved. They are called chara kīrtana (?), means "concocted kīrtana." But there is no harm chanting "Rādhe, Nitāi-Gaura." So better stick to this Pañca-tattva, and mahā-mantra. Just like "Nitāi Gaura Rādhe Śyāma, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Rāma." There is "Nitāi-Gaura, Rādhe Śyāma," but it is not approved. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). We have to follow the mahājana. In Caitanya-caritāmṛta you'll find "Śrī-Kṛṣṇa-Caitanya Prabhu-Nityānanda, Śrī-Advaita Gadādhara...," never "Nitāi Gaura, Rādhe Śyāma." So why should we do that?

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes. He... He pointed out the deficiency, that "You have not described so elaborately about the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You have touched only the social, religious, political point of views." That was his deficiency. So a disciple is always in deficiency before his spiritual master. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, guru more murkha dekhi karila śāśana (CC Adi 7.71). "My spiritual master saw Me a fool number one. Therefore he has chastised Me." So disciple should be always ready to be chastised. He should not think that he has become perfect. That is perfection. So long he thinks that he is not perfect-he's to be chastised—then he's perfect. And as soon as he thinks that he has become perfect, he's nonsense immediately, nonsense number one. (Break) ...always to be chastised by the spiritual master for perfection. And if he thinks that now he has become perfect, then he's a foolish. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, guru more murkha dekhi. "My spiritual master saw Me a fool number one." Was He fool number one? He's God Himself. But that is the position. He should remain always a fool number one, ready to be chastised. Then he's perfect. In the moral instruction, Cāṇakya Paṇḍita gives this instruction, that lālane bahavo doṣas tadane bahavo guṇaḥ: "If you chastise your son or disciple, he'll improve, and if you say, 'Oh, you are all right,' then he'll degrade." Tasmāt putraṁ ca śiṣyaṁ ca tāḍayet na tu lalayet: "Therefore you always chastise your son and disciple. Never flat..." What is called?

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Become a crab. That's all right. This is their solace. This is ignorance. You don't like it, but "When I become crab, I'll like it." That is māyā's covering. Otherwise he cannot live. If the crab thinks that "I was king in my past life. Now I have become a crab," it would be horrible for him. Therefore he forgets. That is a concession of māyā. Forget whatever you have had. Just like here they try to forget by drinking, intoxication. That kind of forgetfulness is also happiness for the rascals. Nobody wants to be degraded. But if in degradation one forgets his past life, if that kind of happiness is happiness, you can do it. This is for the fools. The dog forgets that he was a prime minister in his past life, and his statue is now being worshiped in the memorial hall. And he has become a dog. (If) this kind of happiness is happiness, let him take it. Actually it is like this.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: How degraded the human society is becoming. And the children, they are discussing.

Amogha: It seems that step by step, in the law courts and the judges, everyone is step by step accepting more and more degradation, and makind it legal, everything.

Jayadharma: Even when a man commits first-degree murder he only gets ten years' jail. There are cases of people committing cold-blooded murder and only getting ten years' jail. And then after that, getting out again and doing the same thing.

Paramahaṁsa: They think that "This poor man was psychologically disturbed and killed someone." So they give him ten years in jail, then they say, "Now he is rehabilitated, he has been very nice, and in the prison he was acting very nicely, so we want him to be happy. So we'll let him out on parole as long as he's good." Then they let him out.

Amogha: That's why we take your books to the prisons. Sometimes we have a contest to see who can distribute the most books in three days. When they were deciding who would go with Madhudviṣa Swami to India, they had a contest to see who could distribute the most books and get the most laxmī at the same time. So they would collect much laxmī, then they would go out and give away books to the prisons and jails and hospitals. Cases of books.

Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Degradation can take place at any moment. We are in the material world. It is the degraded place. So infection can take place at any moment.

Devotee (2): It's always trying to creep in.

Prabhupāda: But if you remain steady in Kṛṣṇa consciousness then it will not touch; you'll not be infected. If you take proper vaccine, so even though you are in the diseased condition, you will not be infected. Otherwise there is chance of being infected of anyone.

Devotee (1): So if we devotees...

Srutakirti: Better move over. (Car approaches and passes)

Prabhupāda: Why they are coming here?

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Because he has kissed one American girl?

Paramahaṁsa: Well, not one, but many.

Prabhupāda: Many.

Śrutakīrti: It's his character in general has degraded.

Amogha: That was the initiation.

Paramahaṁsa: She says he has fallen down and this is evidence.

Amogha: God has fallen down.

Prabhupāda: That means kissing one American girl is falldown. Is that the case?

Amogha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So why it is falldown? Kṛṣṇa, He kissed so many gopīs. He can defend like that.

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are bringing somebody, "Our interpretation is like this." Pravṛtti-mārga. Because if they can find out some support from the śāstra, then they think, "We are secure." This is going on. Pravṛttim ca nivṛttim janā na vidur āsurāḥ. The whole world is full of asuras, descendant of Hiraṇyakaśipu, and it is very difficult. But if we give them chance to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, gradually they will understand. (pause) Our difficulty: the so-called swamis, priests, popes, they are also in the pravṛtti-mārga. All these, priests, and they have illicit sex. Pravṛtti-mārga. So they are passing, "Yes, you can have homosex with man." They are getting man-to-man marriage. You know? They are performing the marriage ceremony between man to man in the open church. What class of men they are? And they are priest. Just see. Such degraded persons, drinking... They have got hospital for curing their drinking disease. Five thousand patients in a hospital in America, all drunkards, and they are priest. Just see. Simply by dressing long, what is called, overcoat?

Discussion -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: In the modern society there is no idea of first-class man, what is first-class man. They take it, a minister is first-class man. A first-class man is by these qualities: śamo damas titikṣā. It is not by the fat salary. By the first-class qualities.

Amogha: Some people, like this man, they notice that qualities are degrading and natural resources are degrading, so many problems are coming. But they don't know what to do. They're simply reporting that "There we go down."

Prabhupāda: They cannot counteract. The counteraction is here in our society. They should accept it. Then it will be all right. So become first-class man. Everyone will hear you. And you can face any so-called first-class man and talk with him straightforward that "You are fourth class."

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That is very dangerous law to allow divorce. Divorce should not be allowed. Even there is some disagreement between husband and wife, it should be neglected. According to Cāṇakya Paṇḍita... He was great politician. He has said that dampatya kalahe caiva bahvārambhe laghu kriyā. The husband and wife's quarrel should not be taken very seriously. Ajā yuddhe (More quote by Cāṇakya) Just like fight between two goats. They are fighting, and if you say "Hut!" they will go away. Similarly, the fight between husband and wife should not be taken very seriously. Let them fight for some time; they will stop automatically. But the husband and wife fight, and he, as soon as he goes to the lawyer and he gives incentive, "Yes, come to the court." This is going on. So the first defect is there is divorce law. Another defect is that there is no method how to train a man to become first class. That is there in the Vedic civilization. Now of course in India that is also now abolished by degradation.

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Revatīnandana: When we noticed that this amusement pier was torn down, I didn't think that it meant that they were less interested in amusement, but they have become more degraded in their approach. The amusement pier... They come here instead to be naked on the beach for their amusement. Or they stay home and use intoxicants mostly. That is increasing. (break) ...like a prostitute house. And almost every place they are, not even one part of the city anymore, but you see them everywhere.

Prabhupāda: The woman gives massage?

Revatīnandana: Yes. Always advertising, "Beautiful young girls to massage you."

Dharmādhyakṣa: This is open prostitution now. They advertise very, very, very badly.

Bahulāśva: We had a hearing in Berkeley for our temple, whether or not we could live there, and some neighbors were saying that "These Hare Kṛṣṇa people are no good because they don't have any sex life and don't take any intoxication."

Morning Walk -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: This is the degradation. (break)

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.

Bahulāśva: So much sex, everything you watch.

Prabhupāda: And not only that, horrible scene.

Bahulāśva: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Killing and like that.

Dharmadyaksa: They sit hypnotized. They say we are becoming hypnotized by chanting, but actually they are hypnotized by this TV set.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that I have already explained. We must be hypnotized. If we do not become hypnotized by Kṛṣṇa, then we must be hypnotized by this television and other. (break) ...pūrṇimā? No. Full moon, last night? No.

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: And to serve under somebody, that is śūdra. So at the present moment people are being educated to serve under somebody. Technology, one is very expert in some particular line of technology, say, computer machine... You know how to operate. It is a big qualification. But unless he gets a job under some big establishment, he is useless. He cannot live independently. The first-class man will live independently. The second-class man also will live independently. And the third-class men, they will also live independently. And those who cannot live independently, they are fourth-class men. So at the present moment we are simply creating fourth-class men. So fourth-class men, they are prone to be degraded. If you don't raise them to become first-class, they must degrade. So that is the position of the present civilization. They are creating all fourth-class men, and gradually they are degrading. So now you should take up very seriously how you can create some first-class men.

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: And according to his perfection, he gets next birth in higher planetary system. In the upper planets, planetary system, there is Svargaloka up to the third-class man. And then, above that, there are Janaloka, Maharloka, Tapaloka, Satyaloka, Brahmaloka. And beyond that, there is spiritual world. So in this way life becomes perfect. If you want, you can go to the spiritual world. Spiritual world means no more accepting this material body. And so long we are in this material world we repeat one body after another. And if we degrade ourself to become criminals, then we degrade to the hellish planets down this universe. So human civilization means by nature's way, by evolutionary process, he has come to this body of human being. He should now decide that whether he should remain in this chain of birth and death or he should get out of it and go to the spiritual world. This training required. So throughout the whole world there is no such institution to study all this fact. They are going just like fourth-class men.

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: No, this way will never be successful. It will degrade more and more. So our process is very simple. That is the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's contribution, that we chant... Where is that letter? Professor Judah's? Just read that.

Brahmānanda: "I feel certain my book will help people both to understand the teachings of Kṛṣṇa the of His descent as Caitanya and to realize how Kṛṣṇa consciousness has transformed lives from drug-addicted hippies to loving servants of Kṛṣṇa and humanity."

Prabhupāda: This is his study. He has written a book. So we can stop this, provided we are given the facility to work on.

Mayor: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So I was thinking. Just in front there is a very nice house, big house. You have knowledge about this house?

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Nitai: First Chapter.

adharmābhibhavāt kṛṣṇa

praduṣyanti kula-striyaḥ

strīṣu duṣṭāsu vārṣṇeya

jāyate varṇa-saṅkaraḥ

(BG 1.40)

"When irreligion is prominent in the family, O Kṛṣṇa, the women of the family become corrupt, and from the degradation of womanhood, O descendant of Vṛṣṇi, comes unwanted progeny."

Prabhupāda: And then? Next verse?

Nitai:

saṅkaro narakāyaiva

kula-ghnānāṁ kulasya ca

patanti pitaro hy eṣāṁ

lupta-piṇḍodaka-kriyāḥ

(BG 1.41)

"When there is an increase of unwanted population, a hellish situation is created both for the family and for those who destroy the family tradition. In such corrupt families, there is no offering of oblations of food and water to the ancestors."

Prabhupāda: So this instruction is strīṣu duṣṭāsu: "When women become polluted, there is unwanted population." That is coming all over the world, the hippies. Therefore the first thing is how to train up women not to become polluted. This is the way of... In the modern society they have given women freedom.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Dangerous means if one is not completely educated of self-realization he has the risk of degradation.

Prof. Hopkins: He has what?

Prabhupāda: The risk of degradation. Now I have got human form of body, I may degrade to animal. Because transmigration of the soul. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, tathā dehāntara prāptir, after death one gets another body. Now, what kind of body, that depends on his work. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18). If he has done very nicely, in goodness, then he will be promoted to the higher planetary system. And if he has not done anything nice then he will remain here or he will be degraded to the lower planetary system.

Prof. Hopkins: That is... How does that relate to the question of studying the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam?

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: A poor man can also practice yoga. Because yoga means connecting, linking up with the Supreme. So as spirit soul, everyone is fit to connect himself with the Supreme. That is the statement in the Bhāgavatam. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That is first-class self-realization, when one tries to connect himself with the Supreme. And the Supreme can be connected by anyone. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gita, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). According to Vedic philosophy, one becomes poor on account of his sinful activities. So pāpa-yoni... So although he has taken birth in a degraded family or poor family, spiritually he is pure. Simply one has to revive his spiritual consciousness. And that cannot be checked by any material condition. Ahaituky apratihatā. Spiritual self-realization cannot be checked by any material condition. So why? Rather, opulent condition is not favorable for practicing yoga. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām (BG 2.44). Those who are too much attached to material enjoyment, they cannot practice yoga.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: Cobbler is less than śūdra. Yes. Cobbler means when the cows die, the cobbler may take it. If he wants, he can eat the flesh, and he can utilize the bone, hoofs. He can prepare... He gets the skin without any price. So he can make shoes and he'll make some profit. And because he is cobbler, he can be allowed to eat meat, fifth-class... Not that "Professor such-and-such," and eating meat. This is the degradation of society. He is doing the work of a brāhmaṇa—teacher means brāhmaṇa—and eating meat-Oh, horrible! Śyāmasundara? So make, organize. I can give you the idea, but I'll not live very long. If you can carry out, you can change the whole... Especially if you can change America, then whole world will change. Then the whole world... And it is the duty because they are kept in darkness and ignorance, then the human life is being spoiled. These rascals, because they do not know how to live... Andhā yathāndhair... They are blind, and they are leading... Others are blind, and they are leading and they, all of them, going to ditch. So it is the duty. There is... Caitanya has explained, para-upakāra. Save them. If it is not possible to save everyone, as many as possible... This is human life.

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: More... Not advanced. More degraded. These atheists, they have been taught to worship the form of Lord Buddha, and Buddha is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, so one day they will be delivered. But these rascals will never be delivered.

Pṛthu-putra: I read in one of your books so many names about different groups of these Māyāvādī philosophers. Are they still existing today and active?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyone who thinks godlessness, he is Māyāvādī, that's all. Anyone. All these impersonalists, they are all Māyāvādīs. And mostly they are now impersonalists.

Dhṛṣṭaketu: So although we can't see it with our material eyes, their position is very precarious.

Prabhupāda: We have no eyes to see. We see through Kṛṣṇa. As Kṛṣṇa sees, we see. This is Kṛṣṇa conscious. We are not perfect. Our position is that we are not perfect. But we are perfect so long we follow Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Just like I am blind man. I am not perfect. But if you have got eyes, if you take me I follow you. Then I am perfect. Kṛṣṇa assures that "You surrender to Me and I will make you free from all dangers," and we accept Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- October 6, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I read that, really. So degraded.

Prabhupāda: Then why do you take sannyāsa? Think of your wife at home. Why do you take sannyāsa? Just see how rascal they are.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They have gone against all the Vedic principles.

Prabhupāda: Remain at home; think of your wife. Everyone is doing that. Then why do you take sannyāsa and cheat others? Māyāvādam asac-chāstram. Asat, it is very abominable philosophy. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...is about twenty miles up this coast.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: No, that... This I have already told you. There are 8,400,000 different forms of life. So you can enter any one of them according to your mental condition. We are under the control of the material nature. The material nature is being conducted in three modes: goodness, passion and ignorance. So just like three colors: yellow, red, and blue. Now you mix-three into three equal to nine, nine into nine equal to eighty-one. So these modes of material nature is being mixed up. Therefore there are so many varieties of life. So if we transcend this coloring platform of material nature, we come to the pure consciousness. Then we stop this repetition of birth and death in different forms of life. And if we do not that, then there is chance of going down or going up. There are different planets. If you cultivate the modes of goodness, then you are promoted to the higher planetary system, higher standard of life. And if you don't improve or don't go down, then you may remain in the present stage. But out of ignorance, if you still degrade, commit sinful activities, violate the laws of nature, then we go down again—the animal life, the plants' life, like that.

Morning Walk -- October 25, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: And your big, big cities are full with hippies. You cannot induce them to give up their LSD, and you are making better men. Better men is going to become worse. Just see how cheating.

Harikeśa: Oh, you mean once we make the better men they'll just degrade again.

Prabhupāda: Simply bogus propaganda. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...that their educational system has failed. Therefore they...

Prabhupāda: Yes. They should close the universities and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So by birth they want to make better men. They can't make them by culture.

Prabhupāda: No, culture... They adopt real culture. What do they know about culture? They're killing their own children in the womb, and they're cultured? Worse than the animals. The animals do not do that. These rascals, they are cultured? So wretched and fallen, and they are claiming to be cultured.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Now?

Devotee: (indistinct) Now, (degraded?)...

Akṣayānanda Swami: Price has risen and quality has lessened. (pause) Prabhupāda, you know the ISKCON centres you have started they are just like actually Vaikuṇṭha, they are so nice. Even the Gauḍīya Matha centres were not so nice. Just like an installation of Vaikuṇṭha. They're so clean and nice. (indistinct) ...help becoming devotees by visiting your centers. Becomes almost automatic.

Prabhupāda: Follow the regulative principles, it will remain, always Vaikuṇṭha. Otherwise again material world.

Akṣayānanda Swami: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Free hotel. (laughs) That's all. And free hotel will not endure.

Morning Walk -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: How degraded they have become. There is no food, and they are busy for growing tobacco.

Hariśauri: ...You say that's what they call a cash crop.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hariśauri: The other day.

Prabhupāda: Now eat cash. So cash is also paper. So what is the use of laboring so hard? You eat paper. Paper is available.

Devotee (1): It is prohibited to buy gold at that temple.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee: You cannot buy gold. Government has prohibited.

Prabhupāda: Because you are rascal, your government is rascal-democracy. What is the government? Government means your replica. So why do you blame the government? You are fools, rascals; you send other fools and rascals and suffer consequence. (break) ...tea, growing tobacco, growing jute, and no grains.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Our education is first of all to become brahmacārī, and the modern education is how to become vyabhicārī, this rascal education. And for this purpose there are big, big universities, vice chancellor, and so on, so on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now everything is so degraded that in American universities they have coeducational toilets.

Prabhupāda: Gradually they are becoming animals, or they are already animals.

Mahāmṣa: The principal of my school, he used to be a priest, and he used to give us these classes whereby he would tell the students that one must experience sex life before marriage. He was propagating illicit sex life in school, and being a principal and from a priestly class of person, so degraded. (break)

Yaśodānandana: ...called Ahobilam. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also went there. And the paṇḍitas there, they have reference from the Brahmāṇḍa Purāṇa.... (break) ...was killed by Lord Nṛsiṁha. There is the room, the palace and everything.

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda? You wrote in a letter to Bhagavān... You said that originally the Europeans had Aryan-type culture but they have become degraded.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. They are still Aryan. Europeans are Aryan, Indo-Aryan. That is admitted in history.

Hṛdayānanda: You said that they became degraded by associating, by bad...

Prabhupāda: Yes, by association with these aborigines.

Hṛdayānanda: Who were the aborigines they associated with?

Prabhupāda: Everywhere there were aborigines. In India there are still aborigines, ādivāsī.

Morning Walk -- February 27, 1976, Mayapura:

Dayānanda: ...horrible. The society is so degraded. (break)

Hari-śauri: 6:20.

Prabhupāda: Eh? The idea of reincarnation. That is horrible for them.

Hari-śauri: If they understood that they would have to pay later for what they're doing now, they wouldn't be able to do it.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So, what is the report?

Jayapatākā: Er... The printing?

Prabhupāda: Eh? Our. (?) Fifty thousand.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We're doing that, printing fifty...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: That will be ready after the festival? (break) ...an elephant?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Morning Walk -- March 5, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Just see how much forgiving. This is saintly character. They're killing, and still forgiving. Kṣamā-rūpaṁ tapasvinaḥ. Christ is very ideal character, but these Christians, they not dignified him-degraded. So you can get on?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...how to respect food grain. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everyone should understand, "This food grain is supplied by Kṛṣṇa for our living. How can I disrespect?" This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore we say, prasāda-sevā, not "prasāda eating." Prasāda-sevā. Prasāda should be accepted as Kṛṣṇa. And our eating means to serve Kṛṣṇa. "Kṛṣṇa has given. Eat them. Yes. That's all."

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So let's say someone is in a very degraded condition of life, modes of ignorance, passion. Their mind is always disturbed. Is surrender to Kṛṣṇa.... Is it possible that it can be independent even of the mind?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In other words, let's say someone's mind is...

Prabhupāda: You are independent of mind always. It is your mind. You are not mind.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Then you are independent of mind always.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So even a person merged in the mode of ignorance can by some good fortune surrender to Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's nice. He is very good boy. (break) ...that these people are coming for Indian culture, and government is restricting, "Don't come here. Don't come here." We are so degraded.

Dr. Patel: They are frightened of the American CID's.

Prabhupāda: They may frighten. A rascal may be frightened.

Dr. Patel: The Americans are all rascals, they say.

Prabhupāda: That is not the cause.

Indian: What is the cause?

Dr. Patel: Then what is the cause? No, what is the cause?

Indian: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Government (Hindi) They have admitted in the Parliament.

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Sir, this civilization is degrading because of the cinemas and things. The mothers are the really...

Prabhupāda: And you do not know. Cinema is not cause. Cause is godlessness.

Dr. Patel: But because the godlessness starts from there.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no.

Dr. Patel: Who are the ideals of these women? The cinema actresses. Who were the ideals of our mothers? Sāvitrī and Sītā.

Prabhupāda: There are so many, so many.

Dr. Patel: That is very important. This is very important, sir.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There are many cinemas in America...

Indian: (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: I mean, one percent. But many cinemas are there. I have not seen. The people say so.

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Sometimes. When there is fighting, both the parties will have chance to win. What is this? (break)

Devotee (1): ...degraded activity in the public parks. Fighting and intoxications and all kinds of nonsense. Just like animals. (break)

Devotee (2): And there were so many people that we decided that next weekend we'll come and distribute magazines and incense.

Makhanlāl: In the Bhagavad-gītā, Eighteenth Chapter, 54th verse, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54), it says that the person in brahma-bhūtaḥ realization at once realizes the Supreme Brahman. If the devotee is situated on the platform of the brahma-bhūtaḥ, but he may not necessarily see everything as Brahman, does that mean that his realization is by intelligence, and by his activity, or what does that mean?

Prabhupāda: Realization of spiritual identification.

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: East Berlin. As Sanskrit text.

Devotees: Jaya.

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda? When we're distributing on this program, we go to very small towns where people are not very much exposed to the degradedness of the big cities, and we're having great success with the people because they are a little more innocent. But we're having a problem with this other group that goes around, and they do saṅkīrtana just like us, but for māyā. And then when we go in the parking...

Prabhupāda: They chant Hare Kṛṣṇa?

Devotee (1): No.

Prabhupāda: Then, that is not possible. (laughter)

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: They'll not last.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: .... association, everything is bad(?). So degraded condition, there is no good association. Therefore I say that we require a first-class man section. A first-class.... All third class, fourth class. Even the so-called priests, they are also fourth-class, fifth-class men. Indulging in homosex.

Satsvarūpa: This priest who joined us, who's now your man, he said that although he was a priest, he smoked three packs of cigarettes a day and drank all kind of wine. He began to drink wine, he said, because in their mass, in their ceremony, the priest drinks wine. And then then he became addicted.

Prabhupāda: These rascals are priests. And they'll protect religion.

Hari-śauri: We used to have a Reverend who was in charge of our local church when I was a child. And when we used to go on outings, sometimes they used to organize outings for children to the seaside and everything, and they would stop at a public house and they would give refreshments. So all the children would get lemonade, like that, and the grown-ups would go and drink some beer or something.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Yes. I think the magistrate even was complicated. And when it was complained, the magistrate said, "Better not to take it seriously; it will be your.... I'll give you some guard."

Hari-śauri: They'll do anything for money.

Prabhupāda: Now, in the Kali-yuga, things will degrade so low that if I see I have no money and if you have got some few cents with you, I shall kill you and take it. That day will come. Very dangerous condition is coming forward. Yes, if things go on like this. Just like we saw in Detroit, the whole city is dangerously situated. Therefore nobody purchased that house.

Jagadīśa: Eighty percent of the people in the city are black.

Prabhupāda: And the white men, they are very much afraid of these black men. They have to be afraid.

Room Conversation -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: He was homosex and sex, everything.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Here, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in this city.... I haven't been back in so many years to America. Things have become more degraded. I'm watching women and women walking arm around each other. And I asked, "What is this?" "Oh," he says "they are lesbians." Women together, girlfriends. They don't mix with men.

Prabhupāda: This is now very much prevalent in America.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No higher consciousness.

Prabhupāda: I had one disciple, she was for that purpose (?), yes.

Satsvarūpa: So one professor is already here.

Prabhupāda: Let him come.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Dayā, mercifulness. People will have no mercy. It has already begun. If somebody is attacked, being killed, nobody takes care; he goes in his own way. There is no mercy. There is no mercy to the animals. Now there is no mercy even to one child, one's own child, they killing. Just see how degraded, dayā. What to speak of no dayā, no mercy for the animals—all right, you are not so advanced—but the mother's mercy to the child will be diminished. This is foretelling. This is called tri-kala-jñā. Who expected that mother will kill the child? But Vyāsadeva, five thousand years ago, said, "Yes, mercy will be reduced." Then?

Pradyumna: Āyur.

Prabhupāda: Āyur, duration of life. The maximum duration of life in Kali-yuga is hundred years, but who is living hundred years? It is being reduced, and it will be so reduced that if a man would live twenty years, he is an old man. It will come to that stage. Now it reducing, from hundred years to ninety years to eighty years.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So you have to pick up. So Kṛṣṇa says that, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā, guṇa-karma... You pick up the quality of men and put them in the brahminical class, and then next, kṣatriya class, then vaiśya class, then śūdra class. But you cannot abolish that system. That is a false attempt. Because more or less, there will be a class of men who are truthful. You cannot abolish. More or less, there will be a class of men who are sinful. So as soon as you want to pick up from a family, then it is mistake, miscalculated. That caste system should be abolished. But real classification... Not caste. It is classification. Intelligent class of men, or truthful class of men, the fighter class of men, that will continue all over the world. You cannot abolish it. Even if you abolish caste system in India, you cannot abolish the class of truthful men. That is not possible. In spite of so much degradation, a class of men will remain truthful, a class of men will remain sinful. More or less. You cannot abolish this. So this is false attempt. And this caste system is also false. It is not based on the right description of caste system.

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is, means they are rascal. When there is argument between you and me, if one becomes angry, that means he's a rascal. That is the proof. He cannot reply anymore. He has become angry. That is his defeat. Upadeśo hi mūrkhāṇāṁ prakopāya na śāntaye. Mūrkha, a rascal is given good instruction, he'll be angry. So that is the proof that he's rascal. That is the proof. The example is given, payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. Just like if you give milk, very nourishing food, to a human being, he'll get strength, but if you give to a snake, it will increase poison. So that is the proof that here is a snake. So payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. If you give milk to a human child he'll grow healthy, and the same milk you give to a serpent child, it will grow poison. One day he'll: "Ohnn!" He'll ready to bite you. You have given milk, it has increased poison, and it will show his fangs, hood. That is asura. So therefore they become snakes, scorpion, so low-grade life. Snake life is so degraded that at once you see a snake, immediately every one of us will be ready to kill it. Everyone, without any mercy.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So what this studying of a dead man, the molecules? When a man is dead, what is the condition of the molecules?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The molecules will deteriorate to simple molecules. It will degrade from big, big molecules to small molecules. In other words, it tends to be simple. When the living entity is out of the material body, the body itself becomes very simple.

Prabhupāda: No varieties.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, no variety.

Prabhupāda: That I explained.

Hari-śauri: The complexity is there because the spirit soul is complex.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Therefore they dismiss, "No, we don't believe in the next life." And they're so degraded even for argument's sake, "What is the wrong if I become dog?" They say, university students.

Devotee (2): They say that, yes.

Prabhupāda: "What is the wrong if I become a dog?" The same thing. Hell. Everyone is going to hell. So what is wrong? The same philosophy, if father is going, mother is going, brother is going, I am going, then where is hell?" That's all. We shall go there all together.

Devotee (2): Will this movement take over the world, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: At least you keep one idea. There is possibility.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: I know that. Sometimes they are advised to do business. I know that. When, in our society, in the beginning, I started marriage, the father, mother, did not like it. Nowadays it has become custom, in India also, let the girl have many friends, but don't marry unless you find out a suitable man. Society degrades. Actually the Indian system is that when the girl is utmost twelve years, not more than that, ten to twelve years, she must be married. And the father would see, not necessarily in every case the boy is rich man or educated. If he's healthy and if he can work, he'll "Take charge." Then fortune, faith.

Rūpānuga: That is responsible.

Vṛṣākapi: How should we do this in our ISKCON society with these young girls?

Prabhupāda: Of course, we are not very much concerned with the social affairs, but still, if we can organize society, that will be very good. That will be peaceful.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Beer cans and...

Prabhupāda: This is national degradation. Every state full of garbage, litters. Not only now, I was living here (indistinct); the last 10 years. At least I have seen.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: One of the parents of the devotees who came the other day, they said they went to Vṛndāvana, and the gentleman who bought those pictures, photographs in Washington...

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He said he was surprised how clean Vṛndāvana was.

Prabhupāda: Many, even the poorest man's house you go in the village, you'll find everything neat and clean. At least the kitchen and eating, very neat and... Climatic condition is also nice. Almost all the year there is sunshine. Only during rainy season the sun is... That is also cooling a bit. After summer season, the rainy season covering, there is enjoyable cooling.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Hari-śauri: Seems everything is devolving at a phenomenal rate. Every decade that passes, everything breaks down twice as fast. Just in the last twenty years or thirty years everything has become so much degraded and...

Prabhupāda: No, I have got experience. I am Calcutta born. What Calcutta was in our childhood days and what is now, I know everything. How we were happy during British days and what is now position, I can speak from my personal experience. We do not belong to the richest class nor to the poor class-middle class. So we have got practical experience. My father's income was not more than 250 rupees. How opulent we were. At least, there was no question of need. We were receiving daily four, five guests, and my father was functioning so many festivals and he was asking... My father gave in marriage four daughters. There was no difficulty. The income was not more than 250 rupees. Of course, that 250 rupees at least ten times now. But still, there was no needy. Not very opulent, but there was no need. The first necessity is to feed and to clothe. So there was no such scarcity. May not be very luxurious life, but there was no scarcity for food and shelter or cloth. There was no scarcity. Happy.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: It is expected.

Hari-śauri: Still, due to the British presence, isn't that the main reason why India has become so degraded now?

Prabhupāda: Yes, from...

Hari-śauri: Because they introduced so many bad things?

Prabhupāda: Yes, from cultural point of view, they are degraded. And that was that British policy, to kill them culturally. Otherwise not possible to rule over them.

Hari-śauri: They always advertised that India was so backward because that was a justification for their being there, that "We shall go and educate."

Prabhupāda: They used to advertise like that.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: The husband also, in spite of fighting, is always careful that the wife does not get any inconvenience. It was the culture, now it is breaking. (about door or window) You can close that. In material world, for peaceful life, there must be peaceful condition between the husband and wife. Everyone requires wife, everyone requires husband. Sex is necessary, so make the condition of sex very peaceful. Why disturbed? Make the condition that there will be... It is necessary. As eating is necessary, sleeping is necessary, for ordinary man, so sex is also necessary. So make a condition so that nothing will be disturbed, and in undisturbed condition of mind execute spiritual advancement. This is Indian civilization. Aim is spiritual advancement. And to make condition favorable, there are so many things. So unless we get favorable condition... Here in the Western countries there is no favorable condition. First of all, they have no idea of spiritual life, the goal of life, neither there is favorable condition. And gradually things are becoming degrading. On my last tour in Chicago I saw. In three weeks she has twice divorced, one lady's advertised. You remember it?

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: They cannot be. In India still you'll find hundreds and thousands of men are going to take bath in the Ganges in the morning. They might have only one cloth and one napkin. Still, they will take twice bath with the napkin, they change the cloth and wash it and spread it on the ground. By the time he finishes his bathing, the cloth is dry. That is India's advantage. And he puts some fresh cloth. And the napkin is also dry. And he'll become refreshed. And in his loṭā he'll take some water of the Ganges and he'll go home. In Vṛndāvana you'll find many thousands in the morning, with loṭā they go out, evacuate somewhere, and then wash hands, mouth, with cloth, taking bathing in the Ganges, Yamunā. Now they are polluting the Yamunā water, the government. In Vṛndāvana government is opening oil refinery, and people are being encouraged, "These are new temples." Everywhere people are being degraded. They have no tendency to become purified, God conscious, honest. Because they do not believe in the next birth. This garden belongs to the palace? No.

Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: They are trying to go to the moon planet. In that way it is not possible. You have to be qualified to go there. Not by machine, by force you can go there. That is not possible. Yānti deva-vratā devān. So... And also you can go, mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. You can go to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So we have to make choice in this human form of life. Actually, the aim should be to go back home, back to Godhead. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). Ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16). Otherwise, within this material world, even if you go to the higher planetary system, then punar āvartinaḥ, you have to come back again. Now the human form of life should be properly utilized. If we think that this life is everything, that is wrong conception of life. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to change this body. Transmigration of the soul. So by transmigration of the soul we have got this human form of life. If we properly utilize it, then we can make further progress. And if we do not, if we keep ourself as animals, then we'll degrade. Adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ.

Room Conversation with U.N. Doctor -- September 29, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They are no good. Kalpana. They say, kalpana. Sādhakānāṁ gitarthaya(?) brahma-rūpa-kalpana. Rūpa-kalpana. But Kṛṣṇa's rūpa is not kalpana. It is fact. So kalpana is not faith, it is blind. Let me imagine some form of Kṛṣṇa. And therefore gradually, they come down to the position that any form you imagine as God, that is all right. They have come to this degradation.

Doctor: That you can, any form...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Any form you imagine that he is God, that will give you success. They say like that.

Doctor: I think I have taken too much of time.

Prabhupāda: I am going there at six.

Doctor: Words of enlightenment.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (1): We have degraded ourself to such an extent...

Prabhupāda: No, we can rise immediately.

Guest (1): Yes yes, but foundation stone is there. City is there...

Prabhupāda: Foundation or no foundation, but we'll not agree. That is the difficulty. We'll not agree.

Guest (1): It's a difficult job, but it has to be done because I...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice. Kṛṣṇa says,

sarva-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ

(BG 18.66)

Our difficulties are due to our sinful activities. So Kṛṣṇa assures, "I will excuse you from the resultant action of all sinful activities. You surrender to me." But I will not do that. What Kṛṣṇa will do? He says, He assures, but nobody will do that. I say to my tenants here, that "You become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with C.I.D. Chief -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, first of all, we must know the destiny of life, what is the destiny of life. Then whether we are advancing or degrading, then it will be decided. But they do not know what is destiny of life. They are so fools, they are thinking that this life, say, for hundred years, and after hundred years everything finished. The Russian big, big professor, they think like that. I went to Moscow, and I talked with Indologist. They say "Swamiji, after this body is finished, everything is finished."

CID Chief: I read somewhere that this scientist, Russian scientist, was making research through electronics as to what happens to the soul when man dies, what actually happens when man dies. What is...

Prabhupāda: No, no. You may study with electronics and other, but it is a open secret. The soul departs from the body, and it is a lump of matter. What is the difference between a lump of matter and the dead body? We see practically a motorcar, when it is no more workable, it is a lump of matter. What is the value of it? Who cares for the motorcar? Of course, we do not see here, but in the Western countries there are many places. Oh, hundreds and thousands of cars are.

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So He became very dissatisfied. He... Because friendly, He said that "If you don't accept svāmī, then you are a veśya." These words He recited, svāmī nā māne yei jana veśyāra. These are there, these words.

Dr. Patel: Vallabhācārya's establishment of his own family members as the paramparā is wrong. That is why the whole system has degraded.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not śiṣya-paramparā.

Dr. Patel: Śiṣya-paramparā is the right... The same thing is happening in Swami Nārāyaṇa's. They have degraded. Because Swami Nārāyaṇa actually put his two nephews as ācārya. That was wrong. In South with Rāmānujācārya, they have got a śiṣya-paramparā. But they have also degenerated.

Prabhupāda: No... Sons also may become śiṣya provided he's qualified. Otherwise not.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: All bogus. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: You are getting too harsh on them because...

Prabhupāda: No, no. How can I give you equal rights, because your brain is less substance.

Dr. Patel: We cannot degrade our mothers that way.

Prabhupāda: It is not degrading. It is accepting the actual fact.

Dr. Patel: These girls are misled, these American girls.

Prabhupāda: There is no history. There is no history. Just like Kunti's mother. She produced so many heroes, but she was not hero. She could produce heroes like Arjuna, like Bhima. But not that she becomes hero.

Dr. Patel: Mother can produce heroes...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Still, nobody will say that Kuntī is as good as Arjuna or Bhima.

Morning Walk -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Rāmeśvara: Censorship of television, radio, all media.

Prabhupāda: So let us... (car door opens—break) The people are becoming godless. How much degradation. Lord Rāmacandra appeared, Lord Kṛṣṇa appeared, Lord Buddha, Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared and many others, and the people of India, they are becoming godless. Why? Do you follow what I say? Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham (BG 4.7). And He does it in India within this universe. And they are become now... This is Kali-yuga. Other countries, they may, but India, so fortunate birth... Bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya janma. They are becoming degraded so much so that they are doubting, asking questions.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: And still, they have to go to the Mars. Just see how degraded they have become. By drinking urine, they are going to Mars and bringing report, all false propaganda to keep the prestige of the scientists.

Hari-śauri: Yes. It's just a colossal hoax.

Rāmeśvara: No, they will go on and on with their bluffs. They will try to bluff that they are creating life, just like they've bluffed they've gone to other planets.

Prabhupāda: Everything bluff. I never believed them. I never believed them. In my Easy Journey to..., I have, ten years before, I have already rejected. Simply bluff.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. You've written many times in your books that we will never accept this, that they have gone to other planets and found them empty.

Prabhupāda: So both Arundhati and Pālikā, they're in period. So this girl...?

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: And why there was no abortion? Contraceptive pills? You dance. Immediately there is sex, and there are so many sinful activities after sex. Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Mūḍhas, how they can understand Kṛṣṇa? Tribhir guṇamāyāir bhavair. Find out this verse. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ (BG 7.25). One boy was asking, "What is God?" I chastised him like anything, that "You are born in India. You're asking what is God? How degraded you have become." First of all I answered like this. "India, where Lord Rāmacandra, appeared, Lord Kṛṣṇa appeared, Cai..., and you are Indian, you are asking what is God. How much degraded you Indians have become. Just imagine first of all."

Hari-śauri: You want that verse?

nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya

yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ

mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti

loko mām ajam avyayam

(BG 7.25)

Prabhupāda: Loko mām ajam avyayam.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Just see. God has to be created by public survey. Just see how degraded.

Rāmeśvara: But anyway, these surveys show that religious sentiment in America is increasing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is proof. You are the proof. There is no doubt. They are intelligent. Intelligent and there is no poverty. In other countries, on account of poverty, they are thinking, "First of all we must be materially prosperous. Then we shall think all this nonsense God." This is then... This propaganda is going on, "What you'll, can do by God. First of all we must have sufficient to eat, sufficient to drink." And this is their philosophy. How they can...? There is a Sanskrit verse that daridra-doṣo guṇa-rāśi-nāśaḥ: "If somebody is poverty-stricken, all other qualities become useless." And nowadays the education is for money. One has passed D.H.C., Ph.D., but if he does not get an employment, then what is the value? He's begging from here: "Sir, will you give me some service?" That's all.

Rāmeśvara: Actually you wrote that, that the educational system simply turns man into a dog going from door to door, begging for some.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Special for this millennium. But the thing is going on like that, rotating.

Rāmeśvara: But in general, first it gets more and more degraded. Then it's all finished.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless there is degradation, there is no question of improvement. So this is going on. This is nature's way, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19), appearance and disappearance.

Rāmeśvara: Now, this Kṛṣṇa conscious government... Will many of the things that are going on in America, like schools and education, teaching people to read and write...

Prabhupāda: They'll have to reform.

Rāmeśvara: That will all continue, but it will be adjusted so that Kṛṣṇa consciousness...

Prabhupāda: Yes, Gurukula, Gurukula education.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Faith in God. Then hear what God says. That is... I am speaking that "What Kṛṣṇa says, you do it." That is viśvāsa. And if you do otherwise, where is viśvāsa? Hm? Viśvāsa means... I say, "Mr. such and such, do this." If you have faith in me, you will do this. That is viśvāsa. And if you do otherwise, where is your viśvāsa? You have no faith in me. Now people have degraded so much that they think, "This is viśvāsa. Anything I accept as God is God." This viśvāsa is going on. "Any nonsen... (break) ...pravartate, iti matvā bhajante māṁ budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ (BG 10.8). Is it not? So if you take this, that Kṛṣṇa is the beginning of everything—iti matvā—by understanding this, if anyone engages himself in kṛṣṇa-bhakti, bhajante mām, that is bhakti. Budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ. He has come immediately to the bhāva stage. Means he's budhāḥ. He is actual... He has actually understood the thing. So that is viśvāsa. In Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said viśvāsa... Śraddhā-śabde viśvāsa kahe sudṛḍha niścaya, kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya (Cc. Madhya 22.62). Kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya. This is viśvāsa. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). I am thinking, "I have got so many other things. Simply why shall I surrender?" That is not viśvāsa.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: If you think Mother, then you must think that Mother of the goat also. Why Mother will tolerate? This is justice. Actually the mantra is there, that "Goat, you are sacrificing your life. You get immediately chance of human being." That is his profit. He would have evolved himself in so many lives and then get a human life. But because he's sacrificing his life before Mother, he gets immediately an lift to become a human man. And the human, because he becomes, he has got the right to cut the throat of the man who sacrificed him. This is the mantra. So if you take this risk, do that because how to become a goat, how to become a man, that is in the hands of Mother. That is not in your hand. So Mother, if she gives lift to the goat to become a man and if she degrades you to become a goat, that is in the Mother's hand. You cannot check it. Prakṛteḥ kriyamā... Mother is just to everyone. "All right, this man is cutting your throat. You just become human being and cut his throat. I shall make him a goat." How you can say, "No"? Can you say?

Morning Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And they have introduced gambling.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And homosex.

Prabhupāda: Homosex, what is that religion? And they're passing to homosex, religion. They're getting married man to man. Most degraded.

Hari-śauri: There's no difference between the behavior of a priest and the behavior of a gross atheist...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: ...except he's dressed as a priest.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Dress only.

Hari-śauri: But they have exactly the same mentality.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Business.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is... That will be a good thing. But when he (she) does it properly it will be more effective, because there is... If one does not chant in the process, then gradually it degrades. The offense will increase. There is chance.

Rāmeśvara: So in the past, in the magazine, we have only shown people chanting if they were initiated devotees, shaven-headed, living in temple. And recently they have adopted to show people who have jobs outside the movement, and they are not brahmacārī or sannyāsī. They're also chanting, to give the public the idea that...

Prabhupāda: So that we are giving, the facility to chant and take prasādam, but at the same time, gradually, if chanting is effective, then next we have to make it in the process.

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Not all. (laughter) Not all. The fortunate, those who are so fortunate, they are now opposing me. The Western people, they are now opposing this movement, so they are not fortunate. So everywhere there are fortunate and unfortunate. But mostly in this age they are unfortunate. Either in the Western countries or in this country, they are unfortunate mostly. They cannot understand. In India at least those who are not very educated, mass of people, they believe transmigration of the soul. They very easily believe it because culture is based on that, pūrva-janma paro janma. They believe that "If I act sinfully, then I'll have to suffer next life, and because I did not do properly, therefore I am suffering in this life." Still they believe. But the so-called educated people, they are trying to set aside this. They say, "Superstition." And the leaders say that "India, giving more stress on the soul, not on the body, India's position is so degraded." This is the leaders' opinion. Big, big leaders, they think.

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now harijana, he has..., Gandhi has degraded the name of harijana to such a position that if somebody comes and if he says, "I am harijana," immediately we shall hate him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We hate him.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because we know there is camar bhangi, he has changed the name, "harijana."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is another thing that we should point out in our letter. That what is the actual meaning of harijana? "One who serves Hari, or Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: One who has been elevated to the position of associate of Hari. That has to be done. Then it will be first class. That we can do. Nobody can do.

Morning Talk -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Envious is everywhere. So the whole civilization is so defective. Somehow or other, you come to the power, and you do whatever you like, and the people in general will have to depend on such leaders for their welfare. How they can be happy? If the whole system is defective, how they can be happy? The same man, in one day he's very important, in the next day he's the most degraded. And the most degraded man, previously he was praised by millions of people and next day he's condemned. That means who elevated her to the post, they're all rascals.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right.

Prabhupāda: Śva-viḍ-varāha-uṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ. So what is the value of such election, and what is the value of such important men? Therefore the whole system is condemned. Is it not the fact? Everywhere, not only in India. Not that the actual good man is on the head of the ruling power.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Oh... Because people are degraded. Who cared for Ramakrishna?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In those days it was much purer.

Prabhupāda: Still who cares for Ramakrishna?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But now people are hodgepodge.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is another thing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean to say, in those days people were a little bit more authentic in their, you know...

Prabhupāda: Degraded, most. There is no principles. Formerly there was a standard principle. Then they fall down.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hippie. The result is hippie. In Western countries I see and lament. So many percent of their population are hippies. What is the benefit? They cannot do anything, useless population. They cannot utilize. And in America the Vietnam was selected—"Let them die," in disappointment. Useless waste of... They require... Could not manage. "Let them die." Marawara gar leka.(?) When we have finished all sorts of condemnation, we say, "You die." That's all. Tell them. They have no idea how to reform this degraded population. This is the only way, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In New York I have seen in ordinary places how niggardly they live. No human being can live like that. In good places, nicely dressed, nicely... But in East... East Village or something?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, in the East Village.

Prabhupāda: No gentleman can live. So niggardly. The shops, the neighborhood, the area, all...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's where you went to begin the movement.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: "Then you'll be again entangled in this birth and death." "What is the wrong there?" "Now, today, you are Prime Minister. Tomorrow you may be a dog. Do you like that?" But they have become so rascal that "Where is the wrong if I become a dog, that?" Here is your civilization. They say that "What is the wrong if I become a dog?" They don't mind even if they become a dog next life. Is it not? This is Western civilization. They say plainly, "What is wrong? I'll forget." Such degradation has taken place in the human society. We are trying a little bit to raise them. That is our humble attempt. Otherwise... Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyāḥ (SB 1.1.10). All unfortunate, everyone, all bad, manda. They have created their own manufactured ideas. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayaḥ. Manda-mata and sumanda-mata. Bad, very bad. Why? Manda-bhāgyāḥ, unfortunate. They got this human form of life after so many births, and they do not take advantage.

Conversations -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: In Marwari community they have now degraded. Otherwise they are very nice. Now they have become, recently, hippies.

Śatadhanya: Hm. The young... This new generation, we have seen. They are copying Western...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When I see that boy, that Dalmiya's grandson, unless he comes to our gurukula, he will be spoiled for sure.

Prabhupāda: Hm hm. But Dalmiya agreed. That means if you approach the grandmother, you'll get the boy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Aurora's son, he agreed. I talked to him yesterday. Before he left, he was determined to... He said, "I will send my son there."

Prabhupāda: They are (too faint).

Conversation about Old Days in Calcutta -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Wine cake(?). If you don't receive your friend with chicken and wine cake, then that reception is not good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means they're very much degraded nowadays.

Prabhupāda: The Sikhs, they invariably eat. The Marathis, low class, invariably eat.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about the South Indians?

Prabhupāda: South Indians, low class, they eat.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Christians.

Prabhupāda: Chicken is very cheap food. You haven't got to maintain.

Visit From Allopathic Doctor -- October 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He was rotting here, typewriting. I said, "You go." I had ten servants. You feel.(?) They are heavy.(?) He thought that I am degrading him. No. Now you understand?

Harikeśa: Yes, I understand, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So here is a intelligent boy. Why he should rot here, typewriting? (break) Whatever deficiency are there, that is excused by Guru Mahārāja. Go on printing, go on printing. Deficiency will be corrected, next, next, next. I printed Bhāgavata in that way, many defects. "All right. Whatever is printed, that's all." But these are first class. There is no defect. German printing is very pure. They have got the first-class machine. So we have got so many centers. Wherever cheaper and better printing can be gotten, we may take from there. That's all right. Thank you.