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Degradation (Conv. 1970 - 1974)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Now the Congress government has killed them; otherwise the Britishers were maintaining, necessary, and they were developed. Now see. The Indore was far better before. You can see from the buildings, from the whole city. It was very prosperous city. Still it is going on. So every state, the native prince, the Britishers maintained so many native prince. And because they maintained them, they were friends to the Britishers. They knew the policy, if you create zamindar, landlord. They created this aristocratic class to support them. So when Gandhi and other leaders started this movement all the princes and zamindars, they were in favor of British. Therefore it took so much time to transfer. And as a retaliation, the common people have bereft them of their kingdom. "No more kingdom because you always supported Britishers." It is a great politics. Therfore they have taken... The zamindars, immediately after this attainment of independence, all the zamindars and kings were bereft of their possessions. You were in Calcutta? Oh, none of you were with me. We saw one house for purchasing. That was a big zamindar's house, Tagore Thakur(?) You saw? Yes. If you have saw... How nicely it was. When they were in opulence in our childhood, oh, it was a house to be seen. There are many houses. Just like in England the lord families. In Ascot, where we stayed, that was also lord family's house. Now Yoko's house, a third-class Japanese girl. She has become the queen of the house. And how third-class, low-grade. It is the sitting room and a naked picture has... How much degraded people have become. How this man is daring to hang that picture in his sitting room so that everyone who comes sees. How much low-graded they are. They want change, but because they have no (indistinct) education they are going to the animal sphere. That is hippie movement. Yes. From animal standard they become civilized. The same story, punar muṣika bhāvaḥ. You know that story? "Again become mouse."

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: The human form of life is an opportunity to come out of the cycle of birth and death, but if one does not take—these are the statements in Padma Purāṇa—then he loses the chance. They do not know what is life, how life is rotating, talking nonsense, "I am God. Why Kṛṣṇa should be God? This is written by man." How much low-graded people have become. They are completely under the laws of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14), stringent laws of nature, and still, they are claiming, "I am God. I am this. I am that. I am free. I am..." And they do not mind, even they are degraded to the position of the worm of stool. But there is possibility. What is this worm of stool? It is also living entity. It is not a different thing. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). One who knows, he knows that the worm of stool and Brahmā are the same living entity. Simply under different reaction of karma one has become Brahmā and another has become the stool worm. Now we begin. (break) It is not difficult. Simply the layout should be sent to different parts, and they will make immediately plate, and that will be paper. Daily you have to send it.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Immediately there is "dung, dung, dung, dung," all temples. Immediately. And people are running. Oh, they will gather all to the Deity, temple. Hundreds of people will go automatically. The same man who was living at home, a very degraded condition, as soon as he goes to Vṛndāvana he becomes habituated to all these things automatically. Automatically. Yes. The society, association, is very important.

Yamunā: Those beautiful birds, the peacock birds also at this time, they are flying in trees and waking up now and make that sound. Oh, Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: So the society is very important thing. Any, anything, society... The businessmen, they have got their association, society, to improve. Therefore the standard of this International Society should be kept very carefully. Then who will come in touch with this society will be improved automatically by association. All right. Even in the bird society there are swans and there are crows, by nature, and the crows will never go to the swans, and the swans will never come to the crows. "Birds of the same feather flock together." Yes. Therefore society required.

Room Conversation -- August 25, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: The, what is called, outlines of thought are already there. You read one line, you can speak half an hour. They are so full of meaning. Provided you can express the meanings. So we are not reading all the lines. We are going quickly from one śloka to another. Otherwise, if we explained each line of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam... Just like my Guru Mahārāja explained the first śloka for three months in Dacca. (break) ...after this verse, he explained for three months. Caitanya Mahāprabhu explained ātmārāma-śloka in sixty-four ways. That is described in Teachings of Lord Caitanya. Sixty-four ways. Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya explained in nine ways. He did not touch on those nine ways. Setting aside those nine ways, personally He explained in sixty-four ways. Formerly such scholars were there, such religious persons were there. Therefore people were happy. What these rascals speak? Now there is Freud's philosophy and Darwin's theory.

Revatīnandana: It's nice because here people will listen. In India they won't listen, and in America they can't listen. They're so degraded.

Room Conversation -- December 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: What a nonsense I was." But Kṛṣṇa gave. Better than. He demanded that "I shall have a property," because that was child. His stepmother insulted, so he was determined. Nārada Muni had requested him, "My dear boy, you are child. Why you be afflicted to this insult? Go now to play." So he said, "Your instruction is very nice, but I am so degraded, I cannot accept it as such. If you kindly give me some way that I can get," I mean, "material opulence better than my grandfather and father. You just give me such a post." His father was Uttānapāda. Grandfather was Brahma. So he wanted a post better than Brahma. So he was given: "Oh, yes, you'll get." But when he was offered a better position than Brahma, he regretted that "What I..., what a fool I was." He requested, "Sir, I am very much satisfied simply by Your..." "Never mind. You enjoy, then you come back." Kṛṣṇa is so kind.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is an axiomatic truth even by the modern man. Yes, that "Man is the architect of his own fortune." So as soon as there is work to make your fortune, then there must be a person to decide to give you a fortunate position. Just like in an establishment, so many men are working, but there is a president. He is considering the work file, "How this man has worked?" And he is being promoted, his salary is being increased, and somebody is degraded, no promotion, rather, transferred in some other place. So natural conclusion is when there are so many varieties of life in our presence and they are, although in the same place, they haven't got the same facility, so there must be somebody who decides on this point. So how you can deny God? Our point is the Supreme Person, the president, who decides on this fact, He is God. What is the opposite answer?

Conversation with the GBC -- May 25, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: We are delivering them. Best service. And without God, it is all useless, zero, all this civilization. Zero. Whatever they are making advancement, it is all zero. And nonsense. But actually it is. Now the priestly order supporting homosex. I was surprised. They are going to pass resolution for getting married between man to man. The human society has come down to such a degraded position. It is astonishing. When I heard from Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja there is a big conference for passing this resolution. In India still, if there somebody hears about homosex (makes sound of breathing out). Homosex is there but nobody will support publicly. (indistinct) People are going down and this is the subject matter for priestly order? It may be subject matter for the legislator, priestly order, they are discussing for one week. Just imagine. Phalena paricīyate, one has to study by the result. Not that superficially you show that "We are very much advanced." Phalena, what is the result? Phalena paricīyate, your, that is in English word also, end justifies the means. The end is this (indistinct) "We are going to support homosex." Getting married.

Conversation with the GBC -- May 25, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Watchtower. They have complained(?). So we have nothing to (indistinct) them. The world is degrading to the lowest status, even less than animal. The animal also do not support homosex. They have never sex life between male to male. They are less than animal. People are becoming less than animal. This is all due to godlessness. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā (SB 5.18.12), godless civilization cannot have any good qualities. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano rathena asato dhāvato... They simply go to the untruth by mental speculation.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That means they are rascals. They do not have clear eyesight, clear insight. They do not know whether they are degrading or developing. Just like the flies, with great force they will go into the fire. They think they are making progress, they are going to the light. They think; otherwise how they are going? Such kind of advancement. They are going to die, be annihilated, and they still, "Oh, we are going force, by force we are going to the light. Here is darkness, there is light." This is their philosophy. Just like a mad driver drinking drives recklessly to die, that's all. But he is thinking, "Oh, I am going with so much great speed." He does not know that he is going to die after few minutes. And that is their development.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is also another suicide.

Jayatīrtha: When I was in Chicago, the one section where the temple is close by, more than sixty percent of the people were heroin addicts in this one section. They were so much degraded. (indistinct conversation) I was reading in the newspaper that the astronauts that are going to the moon, they wanted to take wine with them, so that when they got to the moon they could celebrate their victory.

Prabhupāda: There is a story, (Sanskrit). One man said to his friend, "Oh, you are drinking. You will go to hell." "Oh, my father is also drinking." "Oh, he will also go to hell." "My mother is drinking." "Oh, she will also go to hell." "My brother is drinking." "Oh, he will also go to hell." In this way, the last fellow was, "Oh, everyone is going to hell, then hell is heaven. Why do you say hell? We shall live together and drink. Why do you call hell? This is heaven."

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Marrying? They are marrying man to man ,what to speak of marrying. Sodomy.

Jayatīrtha: So that's the alternative. Either they're leaving or they're marrying man to man.

Prabhupāda: Homosex. They are supporting homosex. So degraded, and still they say, "What we have done?" They do not know what is degradation, and they are priest. They are teaching others. They do not know what is the meaning of degradation.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So if the leader is degraded, how can the followers...

Prabhupāda: Similarly, scientists, they do not know what is imperfection, and they are scientists.

Devotee (2): The thing about the blind leading the blind.

Prabhupāda: This is going on.

Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (Sanskrit) Even in ordinary dealings, people will cheat you. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. (Sanskrit) Everyone is cheating. Even in ordinary talking, they will tell so many lies. (break) They live nicely in fresh air, in open air, trees, and talking about their business and they are happy. They have no problems for eating, sleeping, mating, nothing. Everything is there. And we are claiming civilized. We are dealing with science to improve conditions, the rascals they are becoming more and more degraded. They have no science, they have no laboratory, they have no university. How they are living peacefully? So it is... If this life is better or this life of cheating and imperfectness, full of anxieties, this life is better. Which life is better?

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Whatever you like. That independence is there always. But he has... Just like we are speaking. This is the aim of life. Now if you like then take, you'll not take—that depends on your independence. So that independence is all... Before that independence is there, therefore we are sometimes degrading from this human life to cats' and dogs' life. So it is the duty of the human society to save the human being to degrade, from becoming again cats and dogs, or to elevate him higher and higher. Does it mean that we are, we shall be satisfied with our present stage of life without knowing what we are going to accept? Is that very nice proposal? Or we shall try to elevate the human society, that is higher.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Scholar: What is His Divine Grace idea about Kali-yuga?

Prabhupāda: Kali-yuga means degraded age.

Scholar: It's the time for that.

Prabhupāda: Degradation.

Scholar: It's the time for that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It has begun for the last 5,000 years. It's going on.

Scholar: And how long it will be?

Prabhupāda: And it will remain for another 427,000's of years. The whole duration is 432,000's of years, out of which we have passed only 5,000 years. That means the balance is 427,000 years. So at the end, people will forget everything about God. There are descriptions of the Kali-yuga. So if we again come back to Kali-yuga, it is not very good for us. The symptoms have already begun. So actually, we must do something by which people may derive some benefit. Simply for formalities there is no value. And that, things are already mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā. You have to simply follow the program, then life will be perfect. (Hindi) Fruit. Give them this prasādam, this fruit.

Room Conversation -- February 28, 1973, Jakarta:

Devotee (1): Yes, because a few years ago his family left him and his wife and children deserted him, and he... The wife told many stories about him that he was very, doing degraded things, and so everyone rejects him. And when he speaks to Indian people they reject. He irritates them. And also sometimes he is, it can be changed, but he is, he makes them irritated a little too much pride, but he can be changed because he's chanting so much. But he tries very, very hard. Only we have to get him to agree to chant. And now he has another wife and a child.

Prabhupāda: A child?

Devotee (1): A child. One boy was born just before we came here in August and he seems to be a devotee, the baby, because he, whenever you say, "Hare Kṛṣṇa," he smiles.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) Why he's not married man?

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Divided? They are also already divided. But the culture diminished. Because the center of culture was India, Delhi. So as the power diminished, the maintenance of the culture diminished, and by contact with other types of aboriginal, they learned eating meat and gradually degraded. And they discovered different kinds of religion because... Just like at the present moment Christians are protesting why there should not be abortion. So they wanted to degraded. So the Indian culture did not allow, so the separate type of religion came out. This is the (indistinct). They wanted, "Why there should not be meat-eating?" But Indian culture would not allow, so they become Mohammedans, they become Christians, like this. Even in India all the..., what are these Mohammedans? The Mohammedans, they are lower class men, less than śūdra. But Hindus, higher class, they would not touch it.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is their method. Just like this weather is beginning from the light and gradually it is becoming dark. So darkest part or the dark part is called material. But the dark is beginning from light, not the light is beginning from dark. That is their method. They are thinking that from matter, consciousness is coming. Now consciousness is there. When it is covered, degraded, that is unconsciousness. So material means when the consciousness is forgetful of Kṛṣṇa. That is material. Material means gradual development of forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa. That is material. And spiritual means full consciousness of Kṛṣṇa. Is it clear? Try to understand this. Darkness is coming from light. Where the light is not visible that is called darkness. This is not the nature of the sun, this covering, cloudy nature. That is not the... The nature of sun is light, but by the energy of the sun another thing is temporary created which is called mist or darkness. This is temporary.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: What is that science? That is not science. That is ignorance. Ignorance. Simply ignorance. Ignorance is going as science. Irreligion is going as religion. So how long it will go? People are becoming intelligent.

Paramahaṁsa: In Newsweek Magazine-it's the largest magazine in the United States—there was an article about the degradation of Christianity, and they summarized it with a cartoon, a picture of the devil, you know māyā. This is their image of māyā. And he was causing earthquakes. There was a very large earthquake in South America. It killed many thousands of people. So they attribute this to māyā. And right next to them was a picture of Richard Nixon, because he is a very famous, you know... He presents himself as a follower of Christ. And he's bombing Southeast Asia.

Prabhupāda: "Thou shalt not kill."

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Śukadeva: In Seattle not only do they eat cows, but they run out of cows and they start eating horses. It is very famous now to buy horsemeat. They have horse steaks instead of cow steaks. It has become so degraded now that they are eating horses.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Paramahaṁsa: They ran out of cows. Cows cost too much.

Śukadeva: So now they are killing horses.

Prabhupāda: So now they will eat their old father. Yes. No price. Home made. (laughter) Home made concession.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think it's quite wet, Śrīla Prabhupāda, this side.

Paramahaṁsa: Maybe drier over that way.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anywhere you go.

Room Conversation with Malcolm -- July 18, 1973, London:

Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated that, you were lecturing that, that unless one performs the proper saṁskāras for the children, they will become degraded. They will not follow the regulative principles and such... They become unwanted population?

Prabhupāda: Yes. In material world we have got so many obligations.

Paramahaṁsa: For example, in devotee families, if we perform the proper principles in raising children...

Prabhupāda: No, your, your, your function is very simple. You become Kṛṣṇa conscious, and train your children in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's all.

Paramahaṁsa: But there's always a chance that they may not as well.

Prabhupāda: That chance is also to you also. Māyā is always there. But our duty should be like that. You become Kṛṣṇa conscious and raise your children to that standard. (indistinct) Just like we are teaching in Dallas. There is nothing extraordinary.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So as we advance in better knowledge, that is perfection of life. And the topmost knowledge is to understand Kṛṣṇa. Then he's most perfect being. That is perfection. Knowledge other than Kṛṣṇa consciousness-degraded knowledge, or lower grade knowledge. So at the present moment, although superficially, we have got very nice building, nice apartment, but the knowledge is doggish. How to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex life and how to defend. That's all. No more. The same degraded life as the dog. Dog is also trying how to live, how to sleep, how to have sex, and how to defend. He's making: "bak bok bok bok." (barking sound) That is defence. His way of defence. That is defence. He's defending for the master. Similarly dog has also sex life, dog has also sleeps, dog also eats. So if a human being is also engaged in these four principles of business, then where is the difference between him and the dog? He must be interested in the business of understanding God. Then he's human being. Otherwise, he's a dog. Do you agree?

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: We simply request that wherever you are, simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. There is no difficulty. Then everything will be clear. And we are not charging anything for that, that: "You give me so many pounds. I'll give you a mantra." Not like that. (break) There is no necessity. Unnecessarily they are killing animals, and becoming sinful. So they have created their own field of activities just to become bereft of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Formerly, in the human society, there was no slaughterhouse. If they wanted to kill one animal, they went to the forest or anywhere. Kill one animal and eat it. But here it is now regular business. Somebody's supplying cows regularly by increasing livestock. That has become his business. And somebody's killing. So we have invented so many things like that, simply for sinful activities. How we can become happy? It is not possible. So many big, big factories for producing beer and liquor. But they have become accustomed to this. And the net result is now we increasing the hippie population. This irresponsible life is producing children, most irresponsible, brainless. Yes. But they have no eyes to see, that "How we are degrading.

Discussion about Guru Maharaji -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: And anumāna also. That is not good evidence. But even if you take anumāna, that if I make... This table is created by somebody. It is all right. But to find out that somebody is still further progress. Similarly, we have to accept that this gigantic universe... As I say that what is the purpose? If there is purpose, whose purpose? Who is acting? In this way, we have to make progress. We are passing on, on the street. If I say: "Here is a big building. So someone is proprietor." This is one guess. But to know the proprietor, how he has constructed it, that is another thing. But if somebody says: "I am the proprietor." And we accept immediately? Similarly if someone says: "I am God." There is no need of evidence. "I am God." The people have to accept like that? There is no need of śāstra. How much degraded people have become that without any little evidence, they're accepting a rascal as God. How much degraded they have become. That is another thing. Because he has shown, by pushing the eyes, a light. That's all... We have to see that how much degraded the persons are. They have no even brain. What are the evidence, that he showed some light, and what else?

Room Conversation with British Man -- August 31, 1973, London:

Haṁsadūta: Kill. Because at that time the people will be so degraded, they will not be able to accept any instructions. So the only mercy He can bestow on them is just to finish the whole business. And by that killing in the presence of the Lord they also achieve salvation. This is the mercy of God. Absolute.

Guest (1): Yes. That, in some way, to me at this moment, it seems to be an echo of the Old Testament prophetic promises of the end of the last age and also the revelation in the New Testament. Can this be the son of God revealing Himself to the East and the West in different forms but the same personality? I'm presuming that...

Haṁsadūta: God is meant for everybody. Doesn't matter East or West. Just like Kṛṣṇa appeared in India, but we are not Indians. We are all Americans and Europeans, so... Just like the sun. The sun may appear over London or England, but it's not English sun. Everyone's sun. Similarly, when God appears or God's representative appears, it's meant for everyone.

Guest (1): Yes. So, forgive me if I talk across you, please, won't you.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, yes.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: No. No, politics means to see that people are advanced, citizens are advanced, not that they are degraded.

Ambassador: Your Eminence, I agree, but I think the duty of the government primarily is to provide conditions in which gifted people, spiritual people like you, leaders like you, can function. More than that, if the government does, it might probably even corrupt the religious... I don't know. Like an umpire in a game, you know, or something... Provide the conditions, provide the conditions for free speech. Not like Moscow, you know, where it is...

Prabhupāda: No. That is... Just like you have got the Commerce Department. Government has got. What is the duty of the Commerce Department? The government must see that the trade enterprise, common share, or industrial enterprise, they are doing nicely, properly. The government issuing license. They have got supervision. They send sometimes, what is called, inspectors? Education. Say, for education. There is educational inspector, school inspector. They go see that the students are properly being educated in that school. Similarly, government should have expert men in the government to see that the Hindus are acting like Hindu, Muslims are acting like Muslim, and Christians are acting like Christian. The government should not be callous about religion.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: This is their intelligence. She has complained, "It is also killing." Supposing it is killing. Actually it is not killing. Supposing it is killing. This killing and keeping organized slaughterhouse killing is the same thing. Just see. People have become so degraded.

Ambassador: This is sophistry.

Prabhupāda: They give this example that: "You also kill vegetables, just this grass blade is broken. It is killed. So it is equal to maintaining a big slaughterhouse." You see? This is going on, under the name of re... They, they were Christian nuns. In London they come to me, talk some time. So... And in India also, we see now cow killing is going on, regular slaughterhouse and... What can I say? You are government man. (laughs) You may take some wrong views about me. What is your opinion, personal?

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Future, future of the world, because the people are trained up in the bodily consciousness of life, "I am this body." So so long people will remain in bodily consciousness of life, that is animal life. That is not human life. So they have to be educated to spiritual consciousness of life, that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul." Then they'll be benefited. Otherwise, they'll degrade more and more.

Reporter (3): Yes, but what do you see happening to the actual world? Do you see any... You know, with Christianity and other religions?

Prabhupāda: Eh, what is that?

Reporter (3): You know, with Christianity and other religions, the world has...

Prabhupāda: The Christianity, if you...

Reporter (3): ...a beginning and an end.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We also believe that, that the world has a beginning, and it has an end. Anything material. Just like my body, your body. It has got a beginning from the father, mother, and again it will end. So anything material, it has beginning and end. But the, within the body, the spirit soul, the spirit soul has no beginning, no end.

Conversation at Airport -- October 26, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to educate people to understand the value of life. The modern system of education and civilization is so degraded that people have forgotten the value of life. Generally, in this material world everyone is forgetful of the value of life, but the human form of life is a chance to awaken the importance of life. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is stated, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long one is not awakened to the consciousness of self-realization, the foolish living entity, whatever he is doing is defeat for him. This defeat is going on in the lower species of life because they cannot understand what is the value of life. Their consciousness is not advanced. But even in the human form of life, the same defeat prolongs, that is not very good civilization. That is almost animal civilization. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca samānyā etat paśubhir narāṇām.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is said in the śāstra. Nārada Muni says that the quality and the symptoms is the real platform of judging who is brāhmaṇa, who is śūdra. Nārada said and Śrīdhara Svāmī has commented upon him that birth is immaterial. Quality and work is (indistinct). Otherwise how Caitanya Mahāprabhu can accept Haridāsa Ṭhākura as nāmācārya, the authority of the Holy Name? He was born in a Mohammedan family. And this Sanātana Gosvāmī, they are rejected from brāhmaṇa family because they're servants of Nawab Hussain Shah and they adopted Muslim way of life. Their name was also changed-Dabira Khāsa, Sākara Mallika, this Mallika (laughs), Sākara Mallika. But although they're born in brāhmaṇa family, but they're rejected from the brāhmaṇa family because they accepted service. Formerly the brāhmaṇas were so strict. Brāhmaṇa cannot accept any service. Then he becomes śūdra. To accept service is the business of the śūdra. And it is warned in the śāstra. If a brāhmaṇa becomes economically poor, he may act as a kṣatriya, as a vaiśya, not as a śūdra. Then it will be quite degradation. So now this, what is this brāhmaṇa, he's in service?

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the government's duty, that the citizens may not degrade. That is government's duty. Now, just like a father thinks, "Now, these children have come under my protection. I must see they get proper education and make advancement of life." It is the father's duty. And if the father thinks, "Let him go to hell." That's all. Nowadays fathers are doing like that. That is not father's duty. Similarly, government's duty is that the citizen must make progress. But they do not know what is means by progress, what is the aim of life. They do not know. They are demonic. How they will guide? They think, like cats and dogs, "If you get fatty and you can eat more, then your life is successful." Their thinking is very poor. Simply physical strength, they think that is success. But he does not think that physical, the elephant has physical strength so much, the tiger has physical strength so much, but what is the use of their life? After all, it is an animal. But they are thinking like that, "If you get strength like an elephant or like tiger, then your life is successful." They're thinking like that. But because they do not know what is the aim of life, what is the goal of life.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They will do that. Because people are degrading. They are not advancing.

Prajāpati: When we tell them to stop their sinful activities, they will say "What do you mean by sinful?"

Prabhupāda: Sinful means, generally, what is against the law of God. That is sinful. Just like what is criminal? Any action which is against the law of the state, that is criminal. Similarly, sinful means what is against the law of God. That is sinful. But you do not know what is God. You do not know what is the law of God. Therefore you do not know what is sin. That you have to learn from us. It is all due to ignorance. Now God says, "I am the father of all living entities." So this is quite reasonable. If there is God... So... And it is stated in the Vedic literature, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He is the chief eternal. So we are all sons of God. What we are? Simply human being? No. In the Bhagavad, sarva-yoniṣu: "In all species of life, as many forms are there, I am the bīja-pradaḥ-pitā." So everyone is your brother. So suppose if you want to cut throat of your brother, will your father be happy?

Morning Walk -- December 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: What he has said, Karandhara?

Karandhara: He doesn't say specifically. He just said that generally the country is degraded and people have become apathetic, and the morals have reduced. He was referring to things like Watergate, political scandals, and the youth degradation.

Prabhupāda: But why they have degraded? That is to be understood... Not known to them.

Karandhara: Yes. Actually they don't have the scientific analysis. They just have some vague understanding that things are falling apart.

Prabhupāda: Here are the causes. Sinful life. (break)

Prajāpati: ...the affair, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Oh, then the country could be...

Prabhupāda: No, no, I am already in charge, but who is following me? (laughter) That is the difficulty. (break) ...one who is to be followed, that is called ācārya. So who is following the ācārya? Nobody is following. Ācārya is there, but nobody is following ācārya. Ācaraṇa. Ācaraṇa means behavior. Ācārya. "This man is ideal. One should follow him." That is called ācārya. (break) ...to allow us one day to have chanting and speaking something about God consciousness.

Morning Walk -- December 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So see him. You and you go and arrange, and explain to him that "This is our movement, simply how to make people pure, moral, sinless, and advanced in God consciousness." Just take this opportunity. "You come and see how God consciousness we are executing, and then arrange a meeting in the Senate. And try to understand, 'It is simply sentiment or how it will help me?' " (break) ...so much money, and still they are crying, "Degradation." So they should come to their senses. This kind of understanding will not help. They must understand scientifically.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Everybody is saying, not only politicians, but everybody is saying that we are degrading. Moral standard is degrading. But nobody acts. That is the difficulty.

Prabhupāda: So it is our duty to help them. Those who are... Just like here is an opportunity. Go, see them immediately, the person. It is our duty. (break) Sometime I can go and see. Who is the senator, local?

Morning Walk -- December 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: Another very prominent... He's a psychiatrist and a theologian. His name is Menninger. So about ten years ago he wrote a book that the conception of sin and evil was unnecessary, and one should give up considering that some things are sins. Now he just wrote a book saying that he was wrong, that since he has promoted this theory everyone is degrading, and that the theory of sin and evil should be maintained to keep the people in good order.

Prabhupāda: So these rascals will change every year their theology. So what is the value of their words? Childish. (break) ...changes, he is a rascal. That is our... We say, "Kṛṣṇa the Supreme." We never change it. And "Surrender is the only process." We shall never change it. In any circumstance we will not change it. That is the difference. And these rascals will change every year their opinion. They are rascals. (break) ...They are rascals. (break) Kṛṣṇa said that "I am the Supreme." So Arjuna accepted, the Supreme. All the ācāryas accepted the Supreme. Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted, Supreme. My Guru Mahārāja accepted, Supreme. I am accepting, Supreme. I am teaching the same thing. So there is no change. Not that after a few years it will be changed. That never be. That is our position. (break) Changing means material.

Morning Walk -- December 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But the one thing is, who is poor? Admitting. We admit, of course, that God is specially interested with the fallen or degraded. But first thing is that who is fallen? Who is poor? That is to be ascertained.

Guest (1) (Indian man): But there is one more thing. I don't think God could be so partial that He would...

Prabhupāda: No, God cannot be partial.

Guest (1): ...that he would look only to the poor. But as there is a saying in Hindi that (Hindi) So they say, "When a man is poor, and he is miserable, then he remembers more God."

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Not necessarily. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ janāḥ sukṛtino 'rjuna, ārto arthārthī (BG 7.16). When one is distressed he remembers God, if he is pious. If he is not pious...

Guest (1): Then he won't remember. Then he will curse him. Then he will curse.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: Well, another very prominent psychiatrist and theologian, about ten years ago he wrote a very famous book wherein he said that people should give up the idea of evil and sin because it is just an inhibition on the mind. But now he just wrote another book saying that he was wrong, and since people have given up the idea of sin and evil, the whole world has degraded to such a bad state that now, even though there may not be a God, they should still believe in evil just to keep things in order.

Prabhupāda: Then if there is no God, then who will judge what is evil and what is right? If there is no God? People are abiding the law, "Keep to the right, keep to the left," because they know, "Behind this order, there is government." If he does not keep the arrangement, then he will be punished. So as soon as you accept the principles of bad and good, then you have to accept God. Now, this kind of theologician, some years ago his opinion was something, and now his opinion is different.

Morning Walk -- December 31, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just see. Brahmānanda told me. People have become so degraded. They make regular show, how sex life can be enjoyed with animals.

Bahulāśva: That is abominable.

South American Devotee: In South of Argentina, the soldiers, they have sex life with different animals. The army. When they are so long alone without..., and they have...

Prabhupāda: The government allow?

South American Devotee: Oh yeah.

Prabhupāda: It is legal. Just see. Where it is?

South American Devotee: South Argentina.

Prabhupāda: Now, if you analyze the present human society, you will find there is not a single human being. All animals. All animals. Not a single human being. (Bengali) What is time now?

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Questions and Answers -- January 17, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: That is not our life, to become an impostor. It must be real person. By training, yaḥ śāstra-vidhiṁ siddhiḥ, by training under the teaching of a bona fide spiritual master, the śāstra, and then you'll automatically, the more you become a sincere, I mean to say, servitor of the spiritual master, the more you become qualified to become a teacher in the future. Otherwise where is your qualification? You may cheat others that you are teacher, but you are not actually teacher. You have no lesson, no education. A cheating is another thing. But practically to become a teacher... Just like in a school, teacher... A teacher is appointed. When the certificate is there that he has passed M.A. examination, and he has undergone the training, B.T., Bachelor training, then he's appointed: "Yes, you can be a teacher." And then a bogus man, he can be... He cannot be accepted as teacher. So that is going on. A bogus man, they're becoming teachers. Therefore the world condition is so degraded. A cheater is taking the place of teacher. Therefore the whole world is degraded.

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Human being, that is a chance given to you to become human being, to understand God. And if you do not place yourself as human being, you must suffer. Just like (Hindi). Ācchā post. If you do not behave rightly, you are degraded. You are going to animal become.

Guest (1): No, but,...

Prabhupāda: No, no, this is the nature's law. This is the nature's law, that some way or other, by evolutionary process, you come to the human being form, but if you remain as animal, then you go to animal again.

Guest (2): So animal me āpne bolte hai (?).

Prabhupāda: He.

Guest (2): Ācchā. So if population increase...

Prabhupāda: The same example. Suppose by promotion, you come to a very nice post, but if you do not behave well, then you are degraded.

Morning Walk -- March 9, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That's it. Is Bhagavad-gītā imported from London? Why do they ask like this? How much degraded they have become.

Guest (1): And our answers must be like this.

Prabhupāda: Yes. As if you are... They are importing knowledge from Lenin, these rascals, and they do not know what is Bhagavad-gītā. How much degraded they have become. Just see.

Guest (2): They even go as far as to say that this Bhagavad-gītā is adulterated now, and...

Guest (4): Maybe also they...

Prabhupāda: Adulterated?

Guest (2): Yeah, they say so many things have been added to it. Sometimes some rascals come to criticize to that extent.

Prabhupāda: What is that addition?

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. But not from the slaughterhouse. Those who are kṣatriyas, they can, they're allowed sometimes to eat meat. It is understood Bhīma, Bhīma also eating sometimes meat. Bhīma. Amongst the Pāṇḍavas, only Bhīma. Not others. So if the kṣatriyas, they want to eat meat, they can be allowed on particular occasions. But they must go to the forest and kill the animal. Not that for meat-eating regular slaughterhouses should be maintained. This is all nonsense, degradation. If you want to eat meat, you go to the forest. And the śūdras, they also sometimes eat meat. Or the caṇḍālas.

Hṛdayānanda: But never the cow.

Prabhupāda: No. Cow... The śūdras, they can take a goat and sacrifice before the deity, goddess Kālī, and then eat. Nobody should be given unrestricted freedom to eat meat. Or wine. If one is adamant to drink wine, then there is Caṇḍī-pūjā, Durgā-pūjā. That means restriction. That means restriction. Under certain condition. Similarly, sex life—marriage. That is also sex life, but under condition.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And human beings means trained up under principle. That is the difference between animal. The animals, they cannot take up any training. But the human being, this human form of body is meant for taking training. So if they are not properly trained up, they remain animals and the whole society in chaos and confusion. That's all. (break) ...moment, the human society's so degraded that even we are walking, this is also risky. This is also... Gradually, it is becoming. Just like in our New York... That Berkeley? Berkeley? No. Brooklyn. It is difficult to walk due to the Negroes. They immediately: "Whatever you have got, give me." There are so many incidents. In such city as New York there is always danger like that. If somebody kills you, nobody will take care of you. The human society has become... And in India still, they are not so degraded. You see. Even at night you can safely walk on the street. But in Europe, America, you cannot with confidence walk alone in the big, big streets. So human being has become so degraded. Less than animals. They can attack you. Just like in the forest any ferocious animal can attack you at any minute.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They had the opportunity to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, but by the set-up of this rascal civilization, they are being killed spiritually. Therefore we have to take it. (break) ...devotee, personally, he has no problem, but he pushes himself in this degraded society to teach them how to live, how to become gentlemen. Therefore... Otherwise, we have no business. But if we don't give them the opportunity, they'll not be able to come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break) ...it will be good for you because Kṛṣṇa will see, "Oh, here is My devotee. He's doing so much for me." Your service will be recognized by Kṛṣṇa. Don't think that because you are teaching a śūdra how to work like this, you have become a śūdra. You are not śūdras, any circumstances. Even though you teach to a śūdra how to work like a śūdra. (break) ...stand. Don't misunderstand. Clearly understand what is the purpose. Is there doubt? Or it is clear?

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Uncivilized. A similar thing is happening in India where the civilization is supposed to be so... And actually it is so, but they have become so degraded that a responsible officer in the government, he is saying that "Bhajana is nuisance." You see. He has no knowledge what, how much valuable, spiritually valuable, bhajana is. In the Bhagavad-gītā... Gandhi accepted Bhagavad-gītā. It is said, catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛti... Gandhi was chanting in temple: Raghupati rāghava. So what they are following? Gandhi was against drinking and intoxication. Now they're introducing. So this is the position of the government. Therefore I suggest that according to the word, so far traffic, we are diverting the ways this way. And let people come here, join with bhajana, take prasādam, and they sign, "Yes, there must be a temple here." Let this. And make propaganda that people may come here, and... I am present here. I will speak. The same thing, as it is going on, kīrtana and speaking from Bhagavad-gītā. And after they are convinced, let them sign, "Yes, there must be a temple here."

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. If they do not take seriously to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then this prosperity will not exist.

Bhava-bhūti: It is already degrading.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: No, but really these people are, I mean, in their heart superior than others.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Because their method of working is more honest in a way. If they get money then we get jealous of them because...

Prabhupāda: No, they, they are feeling nationally. They are feeling nationally. Yes.

Dr. Patel: Even though it is a nation of hodge-podge people from Europe, but still they are...

Prabhupāda: So therefore they have said United Nations.

Morning Walk -- April 16, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: This scene and all those things showed to Brahmā was to teach him a sort of lesson to take out his ego from him.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That was the purpose. It was not that Brahmā was degraded, but Kṛṣṇa is merciful upon Brahmā and Indra. Hm. Go on.

Girirāja: "Lord Viṣṇu, Brahmā also realized, was the reservoir of all truth, knowledge and bliss. He is the combination of three transcendental features, namely eternity, knowledge and bliss. He is the object of worship by the followers of the Upaniṣads. Brahmā realized that all the different forms of cows, boys and calves transformed into Viṣṇu forms were not transformed by a mysticism of the type that a yogi or demigod can display by specific powers invested in him. The cows, calves and boys transformed into viṣṇu-mūrtis, or Viṣṇu forms, were not displays of viṣṇu-māyā, or Viṣṇu energy, but were Viṣṇu Himself. The respective qualifications of Viṣṇu and viṣṇu-māyā are just like fire and heat. In the heat there is..." (break)

Dr. Patel: (Sanskrit) (break) So you stop. You stop only.

Prabhupāda: Give up, give up the result.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...being done in America because it is not to be done here. Here religion has become fanaticism and political degradation. It is not possible. Now see in our political paper how they are seriously doing and people taking seriously. Whatever program I give them, they are systematically doing. Here there is no assistance. (break) ...cry, "Oh, we are in, put in this condition, put in this..." Complain. But what is the remedy, we do not take. That is India's position. Mr. Kanunda(?), he's the son of late governor of Gujarat(?). He came to offer me a land in Bhuvaneśvara. So he said... He's the manager of the coal organization.

Dr. Patel: Coal Corporation of India.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He's the general manager. He told me that "Workers, they are not working. Therefore we have to increase price." Now, when the, it was private concern, they were managing. They were working very nicely. Now, since it has become government concern, they are not working.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore it is rogues. So what is the value of that laws? The legislative assembly means a set of rogues, and if they legislate something, what is the value of that? (break) Caught like that, yes. Because people are becoming degraded, so they elected such degraded everything. (break) Shameless. The whole nation is asking that "You resign." "No." Such shameless. (break) ...that somebody was in the room, and the outsider says, "Who is in the room?" "No, no! I am not stealing!" (laughter) "No, no, I am not stealing."

Girirāja: There's a saying that when you throw a stone in a pack of dogs, the one who is hit will scream. (break)

Prabhupāda: Others also, followers. These ordinary, so-called Gosvāmīs in Vṛndāvana, in the outwardly, in religious dress, and inwardly they are committing so many sinful activities, they will become the dogs and hogs and monkeys in Vṛndāvana. So one Gosvāmī, he has taken very much objection to this writing, and he is making propaganda against me like anything. There was arrangement of reception. He stopped it. (break) That I have also written, that now, after finishing the sinful reaction, these monkeys and dogs will be liberated. That I have also written.

Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:

Guest (5): How is it that there is so much moral degradation in our country?

Prabhupāda: Because you did not lead them, you did not teach them spiritual books. You allowed them to read Communist books.

Guest (5): Is it the failure of our spiritual leaders?

Prabhupāda: What is a spiritual leader? First of all we have to think..., if the businessman is not spiritual leader.

Guest (6): So you mean the lack of spiritual leadership has driven us to this state of affairs?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because there have been so many. Just like Bhagavad-gītā, it is standard book. The so-called spiritual leaders, they give different interpretation. Why different interpretation? One interpretation is there. Anyone can understand. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). It is plain thing, Kṛṣṇa says that "You always think of Me." Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. "You become My devotee, you just worship Me, offer your obeisance." And Dr. Radhakrishnan says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa personally." What right he has got to say like that? Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava. Dr. Radhakrishnan says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa."

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1974, Hyderabad:

Akṣayānanda: It said that eight people were shot in Aurangabad with student riots, and the police got their guns and they started to shoot all the people. The same thing is happening in Gaya. The students are protesting against this and that. It said that they were protesting against degradation.

Prabhupāda: Degradation?

Akṣayānanda: Yes. That is supposed to be the reason for their rebellion. They are protesting against corruption and degradation.

Prabhupāda: But the rascals, why they themselves do not, be not reformed? Protesting against degradation. Why you are degraded? What is that protest? You are degraded. You reform yourself. That they will not do. Protest against degradation. Are you not degraded? Are you pure? So what is the use of protesting? You reform yourself. They can protest in this way that our guardians, our government, they have degraded ourselves. But that's all right. But guardian is a fool, your father is a fool. But why you are remaining as a fool? That they will not an... If we say, "Now you come to us. We shall raise you from degradation," that they will not do. That they will not agree. Now go to them, all these students, that "You are thinking that you are degraded. So why you should be, mean dog...? Come on, we shall reform you. We shall give you the highest post, brahminical post. Give up these four principles."

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They want to remain in degradation, and they will protest again. Therefore to save the degradation, this cātur-varṇyam must be established. That I... The ideal class. People will follow, "Oh, here is the ideal class." So we are trying to make an ideal class of Kṛṣṇa conscious people. And if you treat yourself as degraded, then who will care for you? You should remain an ideal class. People will follow gradually.

Mahāṁsa: If a brāhmaṇa class is created, then automatically the kṣatriyas and vaiśyas and śūdras will be changed.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. The ideal, if you be ideal class, gradually they will take your advice, what to do. Then immediately the whole degradation will be finished.

Satsvarūpa: Why will they take advice? Will they actually be attracted to the virtues?

Prabhupāda: Yes, naturally. Just like people come to see me. Similarly, everyone comes.

Akṣayānanda: Everyone is attracted to you, Prabhupāda.

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Not at all. Very easily, in one second. If you have taken shelter of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo... (BG 18.66). These are sinful activities. Immediately Kṛṣṇa will help you, "All right." Immediately. Kṛṣṇa said. Is He bluffing? If you sincerely take to Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, immediately the effect will be you give up all this nonsense. They don't believe in Kṛṣṇa, they don't believe in Kṛṣṇa's word; neither they will surrender; neither they will give up. So where is the reformation? They want to remain in degradation and protesting... This is māyā. This is the called, prakṣepātmika śakti, to keep him in degradation, that "You rascal, you have come to enjoy material happiness. So I will keep you in this degradation and you suffer. I shall kick on your face." This is māyā. So what is the result of this protest against degradation?

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That's all. And tax you and get fat salary. That's all. This is government. They will degrade you and take your money and enjoy themselves. That's all. (break) ...revolution in India. Yes. Because people are hungry. There is no food. A very great revolution. So long they were under Vedic culture, they were suffering. Suffering in this way-tolerating. Now that culture is gone. Now they will be violent. Just like in other countries. If you pinch somebody on and on, there will be a violent protest. In the beginning you may tolerate. But if you go on pinching, pinching, pinching, how long you will tolerate? This is India's condition. Britishers, when they were ruling, had some responsibility. Although they were exploiting, but they were arranging for sufficient food and other things. But these people are irresponsib..., simply personal. "Whatever money I can get, that's all." This is going on. All these so-called ministers, they come to the post for taking money, as much as possible. (break) It must have been belonging to some Nawab, Nizam. It is aristocratic building, not ordinary building.

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Well, people are now shameless, you see? They are being kicked in so many ways. We are giving the prescription, "Here is the remedy," but they are not taking to it. But they will take it. Some of them will take it, provided you remain also ideal. If you become also degraded, then who will take it? Ideal character, ideal behavior, ideal preaching. People will appreciate. (break) ...pure character or position, people will take, in any condition. There may be revolution or no revolution. They will take it. (break) ...that our movement is actually good. They will take in any condition. That standard we must maintain. Somebody... Yes, Balavanta, when he was speaking against smoking, one candidate—he was important man—he was smoking. Immediately he wanted to hide. (laughter) So immediate effect was there. He understood that "Yes, this is bad habit." So people will take it, any condition, provided you are ideal. Āpani ācari prabhu jīveri śikṣāya. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement. He teaches others by behaving Himself. "Example is better than precept."

Morning Walk -- April 24, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, "Do not trust" means you are also not trustworthy, nobody trusts you, and you should also not. That is their philosophy. All these big, big politicians, just like United Nations. The same philosophy is going on. Nobody trusts anyone, but they speak big, big...

Akṣayānanda: Did he mean because the politician will degrade.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...that after attaining human form of body he is not degraded.

Dr. Patel: That is wrong.

Prabhupāda: It is wrong.

Dr. Patel: Kathopaniṣad says that (Sanskrit). People according to their...

Prabhupāda: Yes, karma.

Dr. Patel: ...knowledge and according to their karma, even they become these trees.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian man (3): "Vidyadhara himself says that even though he was a demigod, he was condemned to become a serpent. But because he was touched by the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, he immediately came to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He admitted, however, that in his previous life he was actually sinful."

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: These Arabs were well known about receiving these guests like that, but they have learned from India.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they were all Indians. All this land... Now just like they have become Pakistan. They were Indians, Hindu. Because we degraded in our culture, the divisions, the so many divisions... Otherwise whole world are under Vedic culture. As soon as the brāhmaṇas and the..., or kṣatriyas, they degenerated, the whole society disrupted.

Dr. Patel: Now the brāhmaṇa is trying to regenerate.

Prabhupāda: Now he is above brāhmaṇa. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). He is brahma-bhūtaḥ, not brāhmaṇa.

Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 25, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: This cheating is going on. Why should you pay me paper? Give me real dollar, in gold. That they have none. They haven't got. That's all. They will employ laborers and cheat them by paying these papers, and this rascal will think that "I am getting more money." That's all. Since this world has taken this paper currency, the situation has degraded. Formerly there was barter exchange. That was very good thing. Still in Indian villages, the remote villages, there is barter. Yes. He has produced some grains, paddy. He will bring to the storekeeper. And the storekeeper will take, "For so much oil, you have to give me so much paddy." So he will weigh and keep it and give him oil. So he will arrange to sell the paddy. But for the villagers, he brings the paddy and he takes. They require little salt, little oil, some spices. That's all. Otherwise they have got their own thing. They have got dahl, their rice, wheat, everything. They have produced. In this way, still there are, Indian villages. There is no question of scarcity.

Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 25, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because it is very difficult to close the factory. That is not possible. So whatever you have done, it is all right. But you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then things will be adjusted. We are giving chance to everyone, who is degraded or who is not degraded, by the simple method of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. We do not neglect anyone. We do not say, "You are neglected. We don't accept you." No. I accept you and I accept others. What is this? Cemetery? No. It is also part of this park? (break)

Bhagavān: ...people tolerate such obvious mismanagement.

Prabhupāda: As long as they will not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they have to tolerate. They must suffer. That is nature's law. That is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā... (BG 7.14). You cannot escape all these miserable conditions of... Mām eva ye prapadyante. If you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you escape. What is difficulty to become Kṛṣṇa conscious? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: (BG 18.65) "Simply always think of Me." We have got nice Kṛṣṇa. And attend the temple, and we see. And what is the difficulty to think of Him always?

Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 26, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). So the Kirātas, they were always slaves of the Āryans. The Āryan people used to keep slaves, but they were treating slaves very nicely. Later on it degraded. Otherwise, slaves were kept just like family members.

Bhagavān: They had no resentment.

Prabhupāda: No, they were very happy. Just like you keep a dog. It is slave but it is very happy under the protection of good master.

Bhagavān: Actually, they like to work hard.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they like to work hard and they want good protection. That is their happiness. Even still in Africa, the servants, domestic servants, Africans, I have seen in Indian family, they are very happy. They are very happy, and the master also takes care of them. They want to eat sumptuously, and that's all. They have no other ambition. They don't want any motorcar or like this, no. And they work very nicely, domestic work, very clean. But sometimes they steal.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: "What money you have got, sir, to occupy?" "I have no money." "All right, then go this apartment." You must accept. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). By your work it will be ascertained what kind of apartment you will get. It is not upon your decision. There are so many, many rascals. They think that after getting human body, he is never degraded. The theosophists think like that. That is very palatable. (laughing) But nature will force him to accept the body of a cat and dog. That is not your decision. Daiva-netreṇa, the superior decision. Just in office, you get promotion or degradation. That is not your decision. That is the decision of the higher directors. You cannot say that "No, no, I am not going to accept this post." No. You have to accept. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). These different types of birth are due to your association with different types of the modes of material nature. Otherwise, why there are so many varieties. One has become crow, one has become sparrow, one has become human being, one has become dog, one has become cat, one has become tree, one has become grass.

Room Conversation with Biochemist, Dr. Sallaz -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Therefore the real inconvenience is that I am eternal. I am now put into such condition that I have to change my body, and there is risk of getting degraded body. Therefore my problem is that—I am put into this condition, repetition of change of body—to get out of it—that is spiritual life—and transfer myself there. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyaḥ (BG 8.20). Just like we are in this material nature. If we transfer to that spiritual nature, then there is no more this problem, getting this body, again annihilate, again get another body, again annihilate. This problem is solved. And that is spiritual life. (French)

Yogeśvara: So he says they completely accept that there is a superior energy which can be attained.

Prabhupāda: So therefore human activities should be dovetailed for going back to home, back to Godhead. That is spiritual movement.

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Amongst themselves. Now they will fight in the family. So people are becoming so degraded. They require all to be killed.

Prof. Regamay: Yes. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: The fascist and the non-fascist and this and everyone... And that is being prepared, the atomic bomb. You see? They will be all killed, nature's way. You see? They have become so sinful. I am speaking this freely because you are a gentleman, but the civilization, modern civilization, everyone is addicted to intoxication, everyone is flesh-eating, everyone is illicit sex, everyone is addicted to gambling. So where is pure person? They require all to be killed, fascist and non-fascist. Because according to Bhagavad..., paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). All these people, under different names.

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: So people are so degraded, and there is no education, and there are so-called leaders. They are themselves degraded, they are themselves blind. So what is the position of the present society? It is very precarious condition. Therefore, at the end of Kali-yuga, people will be more and more, more and more degraded. There will be no more preaching. Kṛṣṇa will come as Kalki avatāra, simply killing, simply killing. That's all, finished.

Prof. Regamay: But they have still four thousand years of Kali-yuga.

Prabhupāda: Not four thousand, 400,000. So here the time is coming. And now the partial killing is going on. You drop this... The atom bomb is ready. You have got, I have got. I drop on you, and you drop on me. Both of us, we finish. This is going to be happening. People are so degraded. So unless one takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no possibility of being saved. There is example, that grinding mill... You know, grinding mill?

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: In certain circumstances, but if you do not know how to... Suppose a man is diseased and you think... The doctor says that he should not eat anything. But if you think that "Let me give some food. The doctor is very cruel. He is not giving food," is it, that, helping or fully pushing him towards death? First of all you must know how to help. If I do not know—I help in the opposite way—that is not helping. That is degrading. These are all manufactured things. They are not... Helping means, real helping is, that a man or anyone... Everyone is suffering for want of knowledge. So if you can give knowledge, that is real help.

Swiss Man (1): (French)

Yogeśvara: The first thing is that this gentleman doesn't agree. He doesn't think that the major problem is ignorance. But this gentleman suggests that there is a danger, there's a danger in what he calls "spiritual pride," "spiritual egoism," that is to say, thinking that we have helped someone and actually.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: No, why? The standard of living should be one: plain living and God consciousness. That is the disease. Everyone wants to enjoy this material world to his best capacity. Therefore we divide. They don't want to live in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Material consciousness. Enjoyment of the senses. And that is the cause of their suffering. Only on account of this sense gratification, they're creating different mentality, and, after death, they're getting different body. That they do not know. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. One is trying to associate with the goodness, brāhmaṇa, brāhmaṇa qualification, he'll be promoted, and one who is trying to imitate, "I shall be as powerful as the tiger," he'll be degraded. It is nature's law.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, one person asked the other day that "You say that we have a choice, that either we can surrender to Kṛṣṇa, or we can remain under the control of the external energy."

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They're after money. So they are less than śūdras. That is the cause that Christianity has fallen down, that they cannot speak straightly, or otherwise... It is straight commandment, "Thou shalt not kill." And because people are killing, they're... Now they are give man-to-man marriage, what to speak of other things. The priests, they are sermonizing this man-to-man marriage. Just see how degraded they have become. Whether any conception... At least, outside America, nobody knows that a man can be married with another man. What is this? And they're supporting it. You know that?

Bhagavān: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So what is their standard?

Yogeśvara: Did he say anything before he left?

Room Conversation with M. Lallier, noted French Poet -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes. As he degraded from the body of Brahmā to fly, similarly, he can also ascend from the body of a fly to the body of Brahmā.

Karandhara: The process of falling down, descending, can be reversed, and one can evolve back up, ascend back up. It may take a lot of time and a lot of births, but...

M. Lallier: But why? We, in France, for instance, or in occidental world, we are accustomed to think, to think that the phenomena of consciousness is only a characteristic... (break) What is the signification of...?

Yogeśvara: Of that degradation of the human species?

M. Lallier: Yes, of the flow (?) of the four ages.

Yogeśvara: So, so far, to this point, we've been speaking about a gradual evolution of consciousness through the species. So what is the explanation, what is the reason for which there is a degradation of the human consciousness through the four ages?

Prabhupāda: Where there is evolution, there must be degradation. Otherwise, what is the meaning of evolution? Why it should be stagnant? If you go, ascend, then you can descend also. Now, the Mr. Nixon was elected president, and why he's being dragged, "Come down." He is not coming down, but he has already come down, degradation. Nobody likes him.

Room Conversation with M. Lallier, noted French Poet -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: And the more he sticks to his position, he's becoming unpopular. So his degradation is already complete, but because he's in the office, post, he does not agree that, "I am degraded." But from the public point of view, he's degraded. Is it not?

M. Lallier: Yes. But do you think it is possible now to, to predict, to prevent degradation?

Yogeśvara: He says now there's been this degradation of human consciousness throughout the ages. So do you think it is possible now to stop this course of events, to stop this degradation in human consciousness?

Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are trying to stop this degradation of the human society.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Is that like in Parīkṣit Mahārāja's kingdom where, although it was Kali-yuga, the influence of Kali was not experienced by the people because of the strict obeyance to the laws of God?

Room Conversation with M. Lallier, noted French Poet -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not? If you follow these four principles—no illicit sex, no gambling, no intoxication, no meat—then you'll, you are secure. But who is going to accept this?

Karandhara: The young man can understand that the degradation has occurred because of ignorance. The knowledge has been forgotten by which the upliftment or evolution can continue. So Prabhupāda and this movement, we're representing that knowledge. The knowledge has always been there, but it's been lost. It's been forgotten. So if that knowledge is represented, and made available, then that ignorance becomes dispelled, and the advancement can again go on.

M. Lallier: Yes, but degradation is not...? Is it not a law of nature?

Karandhara: Well, the law, the dynamic, or the dynamics of the law is the preponderance of godlessness.

Prabhupāda: No, the law is all right. Suppose one is degraded to become a criminal, thief, but he can be raised also to become a high, saintly person.

Karandhara: I think what he's asking, Prabhupāda, isn't the degradation... Because in the Vedas it outlines the ages, succeeding one another, and there're different characteristics, isn't it inevitable that it's going to occur, that the devolution occurs inevitably without anyone's being able to change it.

Room Conversation with M. Lallier, noted French Poet -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No. It is just like, winter season. The season is winter, but still, you can keep yourself warm. If you like, you can keep yourself in warm. So daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Nature's course is very strong, going on, according to the program, but mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te: "Anyone who surrenders unto Me, he's above this degradation." (French)

Yogeśvara: You tell Prabhupāda how he's (M. Lallier) helping with the translation work.

Pṛthu Putra: After we translate your books in French, he reads the copies over, and he arranges the style to make it flow and he corrects the errors, grammatical errors.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Grammatical errors is different, but philosophical...

Bhagavān: No, not philosophy.

Pṛthu Putra: Not philosophy. (pause) He's reading your books.

Prabhupāda: So you're understanding.

Room Conversation with Mr. Tran-van-Kha, and President & Members of the Society of Buddhists in France -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yoga, this yoga system means controlling the mind. But 5,000 years ago a person like Arjuna, who had his friend Kṛṣṇa, he is saying that it is not possible for him. And at the present moment people are so degraded—not in the position of Arjuna—how they can get success? He is not ordinary man. Such a great warrior belonged to the royal family, and so qualified that he could talk with Kṛṣṇa personally, he says that it is not possible. So, do you think that you are..., become more than Arjuna that you can get success?

Pṛthu Putra: Translating into French.

Prabhupāda: Read this second verse, cañcalaṁ hi manaḥ kṛṣṇa pramāthi balavad dṛḍham.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the difficulty. They are... Gradually, the population of the world are becoming urchins.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Urchins. Very degraded.

Jyotirmayī: (French)

Prabhupāda: That I was discussing from Bhāgavatam, how people will degrade in this age. And this is due to lack of God consciousness. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says your lecture yesterday evening was very objectionable to many of the young people who made so much disruption. They found many of the things you were discussing...

Prabhupāda: Because the young people gradually degrading. They do not acknowledge authority. (French)

Yogeśvara: Yes. When they saw how much we were speaking authoritative, they rejected it. They reacted.

Prabhupāda: So that is their degradation, due to degradation. They cannot accept any authority. And knowledge cannot advance without authority. (French) But one thing I may say that the disobedience to the authority has begun from their fathers.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: From their fathers. Yes. Because in the Bible it is said, "Thou shalt not kill," and their fathers indulge in killing business. So naturally their generation has degraded. (French)

Bhagavān: What did he say?

Yogeśvara: He said whether there was much discussion after the meeting last night.

Bhagavān: Oh, yes. There was...

Yogeśvara: Yes, they stayed until midnight.

Bhagavān: The total attendance yesterday was close to two thousand people. And at least one thousand people stayed until twelve o'clock.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? Twelve o'clock.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Idol worship. And learning vicious things. Some unnecessary picture is produced there. They like to see it. Two train are coming and they are smashed. (laughs) I have seen some television. People are learning how to smash, how to steal, how to harass people. Things are being shown like that. Not that "You are soul. You are spirit soul. If you degrade yourself, you then get this." You make that television, that how transmigration of the soul is taking place. They have manufactured the machine, so utilize for your propaganda. We have got to do so many things. We can utilize everything. So if they are not used for Kṛṣṇa's purpose they'll be used for committing disaster in the world. Just like the atomic bomb. They are meant for creating disaster, that's all. What else they can do? And now everyone is having atomic weapon, just like India has now got. That means they are preparing, by nature's course they are preparing for war, and "I put my atomic bomb on your head, and you put on my head. You die, I die, that's all." They simply die. Now what was the result of the disastrous war twice? The whole European nations ruined. They are not no more rich.

Room Conversations -- September 11, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There is no other aim. Yan maithunadi-grhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). And this kind of happiness is most abominable. Most abominable. But that is the center of life. Is it not? Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham. Most abominable part of the body for passing urine, obnoxious smell, but that is the point of life. How much degraded this material life. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ. The śāstra has picked up most abominable thing: that is the point of pleasure. Yan maithunādi. Maithunādi, either he himself, or for his son, for his grandson, for his great-grandson, the family. Very aristocratic.

So if we study analytically, we can understand that how much we are in illusion. This most abominable thing, we are taking it is the center of happiness. (break) Therefore, Vaiṣṇava (indistinct). Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān, śoce tato vimukha-cetasa (SB 7.9.43). These rascals, they are enjoying a certain type of most abominable happiness. Tato vimukha-cetasa indriyārtha. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "I am simply thinking of these rascals. For me, I have no problem. All problems solved."

Page Title:Degradation (Conv. 1970 - 1974)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari, Mayapur
Created:17 of Aug, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=76, Let=0
No. of Quotes:76