Defect (Conv. 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"defect" |"defection" |"defective" |"defectless" |"defectness" |"defects"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Acyutānanda: Also, in their evidences by which they base their dialectic discussions, have they regarded the Vedic scriptures? They have avoided them very conveniently.

Prabhupāda: No, there is no question of dialectic discussion. Suppose I am discussing, you are discussing something, but if I am imperfect, you are imperfect, what is the value of such discussion? That is the point. The party discussing something, whether he is perfect? If he is not perfect, then go on discussing. We first of all say that any conditioned soul is defective, and that is admitted. They say, "We are not perfect." "I think," they say. "In my opinion," they say. Never they say, the so-called scientists, "definite." And they cannot say it.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Acyutānanda: How do we know that Vedavyāsa is not defective like other living beings?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Acyutānanda: How do we know that Vedavyasa is not...

Prabhupāda: He is not defective because he is speaking what he has heard from Nārada. Therefore he is not defective. Just like we are speaking. We are not perfect. We are also ordinary human being, but people are taking that "Bhaktivedanta Swami has done wonder." What is that wonder? I am speaking Bhagavad-gītā as it is, that's all.

Acyutānanda: Like the Mormon religion in America...

Prabhupāda: No, no, don't bring any other.... That is...

Acyutānanda: He claimed that an angel...

Prabhupāda: If you accept.... We are taking from God. Kṛṣṇa instructed Brahmā, Brahmā instructed Nārada, Nārada instructed Vyāsadeva, and therefore we are taking.

Morning Walk -- January 16, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Somebody came in?

Jayapatāka: Vandalized.

Prabhupāda: You are so careful. That is the defect. Yes. Somebody broke it. (break) We have got so many enemies and you did not take care of it. (break) Where these.... When these pictures will begin?

Jayapatāka: Over on that side we're putting the stones. The stones should be finished about in one week. Then we're going to start the pictures. Already there's a few frames they're ready to start on that side.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's very nice how they, the way they're putting stones...

Prabhupāda: (break) Begin immediately. Otherwise...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You won't finish.

Prabhupāda: Why you are spoiling space by making these arches? You could have used the whole place.

Room Conversation -- January 16, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Vijñāna should be enunciated, vigata-jñāna. Vigata, you understand vigata? Vigata means lost. So vijñāna, you can make two meanings. Viśiṣṭa-jñāna. Viśiṣṭa, vi means.... Viśiṣṭa means a full explained knowledge. You can make this meaning. And another meaning you can do. Vi means vigata, lost. So vigata-jñāna. Their vijñāna means vigata-jñāna, lost of all knowledge. That is the word given in Bhagavad-gītā, māyayāprahṛta-jñānaḥ. This is vijñāna. You can explain in this way also. māyayāpa.... māyā has taken away their knowledge, and that is going on as vijñāna, science. māyā has made them rascal, and they are presenting themselves as the man of advanced knowledge. A rascal is representing himself as advanced in knowledge. That is the defect of Kali-yuga.

Morning Walk -- March 7, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Jaya. (break) ...ṣata-doltena malenatvaṁ na muñcyati.(?) If you take a coal and wash it, one who has... Still black.

Jayapatāka: And he does not allow himself to be washed. He never comes to the temple.

Prabhupāda: No. If he... A coal, however you go on with soap and other things, go on washing, it will never become clean. Aṅgarasya śata-doltena malenatvaṁ na muyati.(?) What is the defect? Why the...? The window is becoming black.

Jayapatāka: The lids are... We purchased some new lids yesterday. The lids have been damaged. Therefore the smoke is leaking.

Prabhupāda: So why damage cannot be repaired?

Jayapatāka: No, we purchased yesterday. They're going to install today. (break)

Hariśauri: ...has painted for your books. So he must be fairly good.

Prabhupāda: If he has painted for my books, then he should be first class.

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1976, Mayapur:

Pañcadravida: Then you don't even have to hear from a self-realized soul. Simply by seeing him you can become completely purified.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Both required. The matches must be also all right, and the wood must be also. Then there is fire. If one of them is defective, then, it will not.... But when you go to the fire, you become dry. But willfully we put again water. This nonsense business makes us late. This process is already there, how to become dry. But instead of taking the process, we put water. Then how it will be ignited? The rules and regulations is the drying process. But without following the rules and regulation, if you again become a victimized by māyā, then there is water and again dry it. So this is going on, watering and drying, watering and drying. No straightforward process for drying. That will help. But difficulty is that we dry and again water.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is your imperfection.

Madhudviṣa: So they will say that is the imperfection in Communism, also, that the system is perfect but we have imperfect people.

Prabhupāda: But if there is an ism where there is no such defects, why should you not accept it?

Madhudviṣa: But there is defects, though.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They can point out even within our own movement the different people who don't follow.

Trivikrama: Don't follow but the system is perfect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So they'll say their system is also perfect, but there's some that don't follow.

Trivikrama: No, but their system is not perfect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That you have to establish.

Bhāgavata: So it didn't save the man who created it. The man who founded the philosophy, it didn't save him.

Madhudviṣa: What does it mean the saving? He died like everyone else.

Trivikrama: Saving means saving from lust and all these things. There's so much... They're servants of their senses.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Everyone requires leader, yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That is a fact.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: And in this modern age, this cheating is very prominent...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Modern or old, anyone who is a conditioned soul, he has got cheating propensity, four defects. One of them is the cheating propensity.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. But the mental stage in this age is very strong, mental. They think mentally they have found a solution.

Prabhupāda: That they can do.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: But they...

Prabhupāda: Within mind you can think, "I have become emperor of the world." That you can do. Who can check you? But that is not the actual fact.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: That is the defect. That is the defect of the modern civilization. They vote. Just like in big democratic country like America they voted Nixon to become president, and when they found that "This man is a bogus," they again dragged him down. So this is going on. We vote somebody to the topmost position, and we see that he's a rascal. So therefore we do not advise. We say just take lesson from Kṛṣṇa, who is recognized by everyone. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We don't say, "Go to a bogus man and take instruction." We don't say.

Indian Devotee: May I interrupt? What Swami has described in all the books—as it exists, no further contribution, no amendment, no interpretation. He has described all what has been written in Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, in its truest form. So no imitation, no representation, no interpretation. Swamiji has described exactly as it happened.

Prabhupāda: And that is being appreciated all over the world.

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: First of all begin. Then we shall think of old. But.... At least when he is older, he will not become a nonsense. That.... We want to save him from becoming a nonsense. That is our duty. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Brahmacārī gurukule vasan dāntaḥ. When the brahmacārī is residing in gurukula, he must be trained up how to control senses. That is the first education. People are spoiled because they are not trained up to become controller. That is the defect of the modern age. And when one is unable to control senses, he will do all nonsense.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In Vṛndāvana the gurukula children went to the Yamunā for two days. Even though it was a forty-five minute walk one way, they enjoyed it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they'll enjoy.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It was a very nice procession.

Prabhupāda: Very good health.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And they're doing it every day now.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...intelligence and kṣatriya's executive power and vaiśya's productive capacity and śūdra's labor. This combined together makes the whole society perfect.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is.

Dr. Patel: I must correct myself and all my defects. Otherwise I would pollute you. (break) (laughter) I will become after sixty-five.

Prabhupāda: You are fifteen years late already. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: I must follow you. How much late you were? I will come after you. (break) ...you think sir, that is more important than...

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Dr. Patel: You must have the clothing in the internal side.

Prabhupāda: No, clothing is.... Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ ...sa sannyāsī (BG 6.1). It is not the clothing. Clothing is not.... Sa ...yogī ca na niragnir na cākriyaḥ. (Hindi) And continually doing that mahā-pāpa. (break) ...narādhama.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That they do not know, what is the real gain. They think this body is the gain only. And beyond this body there is another gain. That is not known. They do not know even. That is the defect of their civilization. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). They are taking care of the body, but beyond the body there is something else which is eternal. Even after the annihilation of the body, it does not become destroyed. That they do not know. There is no education. There is no research. There is no college. There is no science to understand. And that kind of taking care of the body, a dogs know. Sometimes the dogs, they rub their body on the ground like that. That.... That makes them rejuvenated. Horse also do that. So how to take care of the body, they know in their different method. But that is known to them. If before the horse you give them some meat, they'll not take. And give them peas; they'll take immediately.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So bhūribhiḥ.(?) Everyone gives some blessings so that the child is.... Then marriage. During marriage time.... You have seen Kṛṣṇa's mother's marriage? That was the system. The father gives to his heart content, as much as possible, to the daughter. The Kṛṣṇa's mother was royal prince, so her father gave so many elephants, so many horses, so many chariots. That was the system. (break) This śrāddha ceremony. That is also, feeding the learned brāhmaṇas, saintly person, poor man, relative. Lavishly they spend money during three occasions: birth, death, and marriage. During birth the father spends; the marriage, father spends; and death, the son spends. This is the system. So social reformation, but there is no idea how the society will be happy. There is no idea. They are trying to remove this intoxication, LSD, but do not see the cause why LSD has come. They do not try to stop that cause. When the cause is effective, then they are disturbed with the effect. This is the defect. Neither they'll take advice. So how they'll be able to.... Big, big officer, drawing high salary, that's all. There is no effect. Neither there can be any effect. It is not possible. They do not know. Neither they want it. So we are advocating, "Remove these four sinful activities," so nobody will agree. "Illicit sex is our life, to keep a friend, to keep a secretary." And we are advising, "No illicit sex." Then where is life? That's all.

Morning Walk -- April 24, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: At the same time you see that it is not misspent. That is another defect, that our spending is not very frugal and spend like anything. There must be.... But in India they want to cheat you, and you are very expert, being cheated.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It is our karma. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Not karma. You are working sincerely, that's all.

Guru-kṛpā: We are expert cheaters also. That's how we get the money.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You are big cheaters. You don't cheat two rupees, three rupees. Two millions. (laughs) That is accusation, Alexander and the thief. The thief accused Alexander the Great that "What is the difference between you and me? I am a small thief; you are a big thief. That's all. Why you are punishing me? You are a big thief. You are doing same thing." Then he was let loose. "Yes, what is difference? (laughs) I am a big thief." (break) ...means Alexander the Great, actually he was great. Otherwise he is the emperor, and ordinary thief is accusing him and he said, "Yes, I am thief." He admitted. That is greatness. That is greatness. If he was not great, then he would have hanged him or punished him: "Oh, you are so.... You are accusing me?" But no, he accepted. That is greatness. Mistake is one fault, but to accept that "I have done mistake," that is greatness.

Room Conversation -- May 1, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Kārpaṇya-doṣopahata. Kārpaṇya-doṣa (BG 2.7). "It was my duty to understand myself, and I am thinking of my these nonsense relatives—my grandfather, my son. What is this? I know that. What I can do by thinking about them? It may be they have come to war. But suppose they would have died naturally—what could I do? So why I am perplexed with these things? I know the defect. I cannot cause their death or birth or existence. It is beyond my jurisdiction. And still, I am anxious: If I kill them, then what would happen? What would happen?" You kill or not kill, they'll be killed, today or tomorrow. Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ (BG 2.11). A learned man knows that the body will be finished, the bodily action, today or tomorrow. So what is to lament after this body? Lamentation is that the person within the body, whether he's going to hell or heaven. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti or tamo gacchanti. That is real concern. Body will be finished, today or tomorrow or after a hundred years. Who can protect it? But one should be interested with the owner of the body, where he is going, what is his next position. And that is clearly stated: adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ, ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18). So you are interested to go up or down or remain in the same status. There are three status: up, down, and the same.

Room Conversation -- May 1, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: That is the defect. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so essential. They are accepting ignorance as knowledge. Darwin's theory. It is simply speculation on ignorance, and it has been taken as knowledge. Freud's philosophy is the business of the hogs and dogs, and it has been taken as philosophy. Even the hogs and dogs know how to enjoy sex life. And they are.... On account of sex life, they have written a philosophy. Is that philosophy? Tattva-jñānārtha-darśanam. Find out. The Thirteenth Chapter. Hmm? (devotees look for verse)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Another line?

Prabhupāda: Find out amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntiḥ (BG 13.8), Thirteenth Chapter.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is bound to fail.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless you voluntarily give, it will be failure. You will try to find out ways how you can take everything.... Just like income tax. The government is trying to take more money from the public, and public is hiding them in black market. This is going on. Nobody is.... Even your Nixon, he also hidden some money from the income tax. Why? He is the head of the government. So one side, he is head of the government, try to take money from the public, but he personally himself, he is hiding. Why this defect?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: They will say that the system encourages man's greed, whereas their system...

Prabhupāda: No, no, system.... If the.... You cannot change the mind. If you have got mind to enjoy more, by force if I try to force you not to enjoy more, give to the state, this is a struggle. This is not perfect process.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say that will be corrected by education.

Prabhupāda: Education.... That means what is that education?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say that the.... They don't.... Of course, we say education means Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Education means they must learn to sacrifice everything for the topmost.

Morning Walk -- May 15, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: But if he goes heaven means there is another life. How do you say "one life"? This is defective philosophy.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But this is what God has said in the Bible; therefore we must accept.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This is what God has said in the Bible; therefore we must accept.

Prabhupāda: God, if He says something unreasonable, how it can be accepted? You say, "one life." Then who goes to the next life? That is defective. Why do you not talk back?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...cannot explain why some people are born in a more pious setting and some people are born in a more impious setting.

Prabhupāda: Because they do not know the karma. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). According to one's activities, pious or impious, he gets the next birth. That is quite reasonable. But they do not believe in karma. When I was student in Scottish Churches College, so we had to attend class, half an hour, Bible. So the Dr. Urquhart, he did.... The argument was: "So if karma is there and I am suffering for my karma, who is the witness?" But because they do not know that the witness is God.

Morning Walk -- May 15, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: The hell or heaven doesn't matter. The next life is there. How you say "one life"? That is defective theory. Therefore this philosophy cannot be accepted. Anything which is defective is not to be accepted.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Simply dogma.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...rejected. That is Vedic process.

Hari-śauri: Actually, there's so many different understandings that the Christians have of the same thing. They all have different type of philosophy.

Hayagrīva: No, Christ never said that. Christ never said you only have one life.

Prabhupāda: So that is real philosophy. That is real philosophy.

Hayagrīva: This is the.... All of this evolved from the church fathers.

Prabhupāda: That is all defective, unscrupulous.

Morning Walk -- May 26, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...there's no such thing. "I believe." Immediately.... What Kṛṣṇa says, that's true. That is our movement. Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What I believe? I'm a nonsense. I am.... I have got four defects in my life: illusion, mistake, cheating, insufficiency. What is the meaning of my belief? A cheater saying, "I believe," I have to accept if I know that he's a cheat? (break) ...the public, by misleading them they have gone to moon.

Devotee: (tape static-inaudible)

Prabhupāda: (inaudible) ...some tickets for going to moon. What they are doing with the tickets? You know that Pan American sold tickets for going to moon? You do not know? (laughs) They sold tickets, because in your country, you have got lot of money, any kind of cheating can draw money. (laughs)

Devotee (6): They're selling tickets to go to the moon?

Prabhupāda: Not now. They sold in the beginning. They're so hopeful now that "We shall go to the moon." Some family (inaudible) "Oh, scientific advancement. Yes, they go to the moon. So I have got money. Why not purchase a ticket so I can go to the moon?" There are many persons in your country who can very easily pay $50,000 for purchasing tickets for going to the moon planet.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Reporter: Are there many decisions that people asked you to make, about whether the movement should do this, or should do that, or do they bother you of that now, or are you just busy writing and translating?

Prabhupāda: No, we do not accept any—what is called?—defective suggestion. We do not accept. We have got our program. This program is coming directly from Kṛṣṇa. The Bhagavad-gītā is there.

Reporter: OK.

Prabhupāda: So we are simply giving a practical set(?) of the instruction of Gītā. This is our business. We don't manufacture any imaginative thing.

Rāmeśvara: His idea.... His question, Prabhupāda, is also, suppose someone wants to buy a farm or wants to do some new project. Do they ask your permission first?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole society is going on under my direction. Whatever they do, they take my permission and they put into (indistinct). Nothing is allowed without my permission.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: That's what you said yesterday in discussing that philosopher Skinner. He said first we control nature, then we can control ourselves. And you replied, if you can't control yourself, how you can control such a big thing like nature?

Prabhupāda: That is the defect. They are tiny, insignificant creature and talking big, big things. This is the defect of modern civilization.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like a child trying to catch the moon.

Prabhupāda: He has no importance, and he's talking big, big things. The same philosophy. Hele data bai nakhe yuce.(?) He cannot catch even nonpoisonous snake, and he's saying, "I'll catch up a cobra."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like a small child trying to catch the moon.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (japa) All these rascals should be approached that, first, "Whether you have come from your.... Is your father monkey? You say that from monkey man has come. You have come from monkey or from your father?" Ask him this question. Naturally he will be ashamed to say "Yes, I have come from some monkey." (laughs) Unless he is a great fool, he will not say it. Then your father comes from his father, from his father.... Where the monkey comes? Is there in the history of your family that your forefather...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we are studying the bones. That's what they say.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They cannot think that a person, how he can produce a sky? That is beyond their conception. This is their illusion.(?) They say God is all-powerful, but He cannot produce a sky. This is their defect of knowledge. If God is all-powerful, why He cannot produce a sky? That they cannot think. Yes, He's all-powerful, cannot produce a sky. Their intellect. Poor intellect.

Mahendra: Many of us were also thinking God to be impersonal before we met you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mahendra: We were not attached to that conception. When you explained personal nature of God and the many arguments in favor, gradually we were convinced. But then there are those also who are attached to that conception, like in the Bhagavad-gītā it says those who are attached to that conception...

Prabhupāda: No, we can see every day the impersonal feature of the sun—the sunlight, the sunshine. But which is important, the sunshine is important or the sun is important? Daily we see. The sunshine is spread all over the universe, very big. But what is the use of this big, if there is no sun globe?

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Befool.

Rāmeśvara: Child is born dead means defective body.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Rāmeśvara: It just means it is defective.

Prabhupāda: That is, rascal, that his soul is not there, therefore defective. The body is already defective, your body, my body, but it is effective only so long the soul is there.

Devotees: Jaya!

Prabhupāda: The body is always defective. Either child's body or your body or my body, it is always defective without the soul and it is effective with the soul. This is the conclusion. Therefore Arjuna was chastised by Kṛṣṇa that "You are giving stress on the body. This kind of conception is for the fools." Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase: (BG 2.11) "You are talking like a very learned man, but a learned man knows always that this body is defective, either living or dead." The same body. Dead means the soul is not there, and living means the soul is there. The two conditions, effective and defective, is depending on the soul. The soul is important. You have to understand what is that soul. That is knowledge. Tattva-jñānārtha-darśanam. To understand the truth, what is the truth there, that without something this body is dead, no more value, and with that something the body is so valuable. So one who is intelligent, he'll try to find out what is that truth.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Hṛdayānanda: If they take a camera over the water, they won't see any life.

Rāmeśvara: Or over the fire, they will not see any life on the sun...

Prabhupāda: No.

Rāmeśvara: ...with their camera.

Hṛdayānanda: Even over the earth, you can't see any life. They took pictures of the earth.

Prabhupāda: That, that is their defect, that their eyes are defective. They cannot go there. That they will not accept. The camera which they manufactured, that is also defective. Because you have manufactured it. You are defective. Your senses are defective. Therefore, in the Vedic literature: "Don't try to see with your eyes, but try to see by ear, śruti. " Śāstra-cakṣuṣā. You should accept as your eyes the śāstras. Not your so-called eyes. (end)

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Hm. This is very difficult to understand for the demonic. Prahlāda Mahārāja was instructing among the demons. So for them it was difficult. Still, Prahlāda Mahārāja was trying. The purport is read, this verse?

Nalinīkaṇṭha: Yes. You say that the problem is that there's a lack of spiritual education in their lives.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the defect always, especially in this age. There is no spiritual education. Hm? Do you think, Dr. Wolfe, there is spiritual education? Is there any in the school, colleges, universities?

Hṛdayānanda: He's saying if there's any real spiritual education in the colleges and schools.

Dr. Wolfe: To produce new sense-gratifiers.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Nalinīkaṇṭha: Ne te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum. They don't know.

Interview with Jackie Vaughn (Black Congressman) -- July 12, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: You can change, but if you do not change for the real good, then time will come, another change, another change. That is going on. Just like in Russia they wanted to change. They brought in revolution. But what is changed? They are still begging grains from America. So what is the use of that change? If you have to beg from other country for your food, then what is the benefit of such change? So this is going on. One thing established, and again it is changed. That is described in the śāstra: punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Chewing the chewed. Just like sugarcane. One has taken the juice by chewing and thrown it in the street, and somebody again takes it and chew it, what he will get it? It is already chewed. Experiment. So all, everything has been experimented. Big, big empires, big, big society, big, big nation. That Hitler, he wanted to make something big. Napoleon wanted to make something big. Nothing big has been done. Where is Napoleon? Where is Hitler? So these are all temporary attempts. It is sure to be failure. Because they do not know how to do things. That is the defect. They are simply imagining, concoction. Here is a practical and sure proposal in the Bhagavad-gītā. God comes and He's giving personal instruction, that "Do things like this." Your economic problem, your political problem, your social problem, everything.... You ask any question, any problem, the answer is there, perfect. All problems.

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: So here is definitive knowledge, in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. There's no question of "I believe" or "You believe." No. What you are, your belief? You may believe wrongly. You are not perfect. They do not accept this, that every one of the conditioned souls is imperfect with four defects: illusion, committing mistake, cheating, and imperfectness of senses. Who will say it is not? It is. If you have got imperfect senses, then what is the use of your belief? If the child says "Oh, there is no father. I have never seen my father," does it mean there is no father? Because you are child, because you have got mother, there must be father, you believe or not believe. So these rascals say "I don't believe in God." Why? As it is inevitable—the mother is there, the child is there—there must be father. You may not know him, but you can know him through your mother. But must be father. There is no question of "I don't believe there is father." No, that cannot be (indistinct) It is like that, everything fact. No question of belief. You believe or not believe, there is father. Similarly, these rascals nowadays, they say "We don't believe in God." You believe or not believe, God is there. Who cares for your believe or not believe? The same way: the mother is there, the child is there; there must be father. There is no argument.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Jayādvaita: Their only objection, when we present that there's brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa, then they become automatically hostile, because they understand that we're against sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sense gratification is animal civilization. And sense control is human civ.... Sense gratification is not human society. Sense gratification is not human civilization. That they do not know. Their central point is sense gratification. That is the defect. They are running on an animal civilization as human civilization. That is the defect. Sense gratification is animal civilization. And actually they are animals. If they can kill their own child, it is animal. Just like cats, dogs, they kill their own child. What is that? It is animal civilization. Who was talking that child is put into the, what is that, left luggage?

Hari-śauri: Left-luggage lockers. Trivikrama Mahārāja, in Japan. He said over two hundred thousand, uh, twenty thousand babies, they put them in a left-luggage locker and leave them.

Prabhupāda: Bus way station? Railway station? Leave luggage. Put it and lock it, then not coming back. Then when there is bad smell.... This is going on. This is simply animal civilization. Taking the last drop of milk from the cow and immediately send it to the slaughterhouse. They are doing like that. Before sending to the slaughterhouse, they draw out the last drop of milk from the cow. And immediately killing. So you require the milk, you are taking so much milk, without milk you cannot.... And the animal from whom you take milk, she's your mother. They forget this. Mother supplies milk, she supplies milk from her body, and you are killing the mother? Is that civilization? Killing mother? And milk is necessary.

Room Conversation with Ambarisa and Catholic Priest -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Govindam ādi-puruṣam. So that's all right, "Govinda's."

Ambarīṣa: OK. (pause)

Śrutikīrti: Hari-śauri looks like he can give a very good massage. He looks like he can give a very good massage.

Prabhupāda: Mmm. Hari-śauri's one defect is he cannot cook. (laughter) Otherwise he is duplicate. Except cooking. He knows very good cooking.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He can eat though. He can eat prasāda.

Śrutikīrti: So I can travel and cook?

Prabhupāda: Cooking and.... A young man must eat. Why one should be like me?

Śrutikīrti and Ambarīṣa: Jaya. Jaya, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) (tape continues after guest's entrance)

Stansky: ...the very best.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Ambarisa and Catholic Priest -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: You see this black men. They earn sufficient money, but see their home. See their home. You America, you have given them equal rights, they are getting money, but they have no culture. Therefore you may pay them as much as you like, but still poverty-stricken. In Africa also I have seen that they have got their own kingdom, independence, but if we go to the African slums, they are poverty-stricken, wretched. So this civilization will not endure. If there is no culture, simply by money you cannot maintain a standard of civilization. That is not possible. Now the American leaders they are thinking, "Let us have money, then everything..." Of course, by money you are covering all the defects of the social culture. But this will not endure. Day will come and everything will be exposed. Therefore culture required.

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Complete ignorance, like animals. So the leaders of the society, if they are serious about advancement of human civilization, they must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness; otherwise, they'll be baffled.

George Gullen: Well, we do not teach about these things...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the defect.

George Gullen: .... in public schools because we do not know.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now whether still we shall remain in ignorance or we shall learn this science and teach, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is not a sectarian religious movement. No, it is not that. This is science, scientific. So leading personalities like you, teachers, professors and other leading men, they should try to understand what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is and join. It is for the human society, it is not for a certain section.

George Gullen: I would like very much to know more about these matters myself, personally.

Prabhupāda: So kindly do that. You are little interested. So we are receiving orders from all universities, colleges, of our books. You have seen our books? These are our books.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of...

Kern: No, but you can..., my point is if a child would be born...

Prabhupāda: I'm talking that those who are handicapped, by nature defective, we shall deal with them. That's all right.

Kern: How? How do you deal with them? That's my question.

Prabhupāda: Well, what? How you are dealing? You cannot. I told you that if your hand is cut, is it possible for me to add another hand in your body?

Kern: No, but...

Prabhupāda: Then you are unable. You have to accept it. But as far as possible we can give them help. That is not the question. Question is, those who are not handicapped, they are rotting without education, without enlightenment by keeping themselves as fourth-class, fifth-class men. Why not train them to become first-class men? That is the point. If one is blind, you cannot give him eyes. If one is lame, you cannot give him leg. That is beyond your ability. That is another thing; we shall deal with them later on. First of all, those who are born as human beings, why should you keep them as third-class, fourth-class men?

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Run away. (laughter) He's fourth class. He has been placed in the second class. So how he'll do the...

Scheverman: Yeah, but we have a principle called "A man tends to rise to the level of his incompetence." (laughter)

Prabhupāda: These are the defects of the society at the present moment. A fourth-class, fifth-class man is on the first class or second class. Why Nixon had to be dragged down? He's a third-class man.

Scheverman: Third-class man.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter)

Scheverman: That's rather high on the ladder, I'd say, Your Excellency. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: These mistakes are going on.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: To understand his spiritual identification. At the present moment, this age, all over the world, things are passing on on the bodily concept of life. But we are not this body. That is the defect of modern civilization, that there are two things—one, the body; and the moving force which is moving the body. So they are taking care of the body, but they have no information what is that moving force. They are presenting some foolish theories that the body is moving by chemical composition, by this, that, but actually they do not know what is there. The chemical composition..., what is that? Frankenstein or something?

Jayādvaita: Frankenstein. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: These foolish things are going on. They think the body, by some chemical and physical combination and electric power.... Although they have not been able to do so, but still they'll theorize like that. In this way the whole human society is going on in a deep, ignorant platform. So, that is the defect of the human society at the present moment, and we are trying to mend this defect by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. People are trying to understand. Our books are being very nicely received by the educated circle. We have got so many books. About, for the time, we have got over fifty-four books like this. This book is selling very nicely, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. We have printed recent edition, 350,000 copies, that is finished. Again we are going to print 500,000 copies.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: So this brahma-bhūta stage is spiritual stage. We want to bring everyone to this spiritual stage. That is the sum and substance. We are not on the material stage. Therefore it is little difficult to understand. Everyone is on the material stage, but we are working on the spiritual stage. But the spirit and matter, we can distinguish. Without the spirit, the body is nothing but lump of matter. The spirit is there, the matter is there, but we are so dull, we do not understand what is that spirit. That is the difficulty of the modern society. This is the most important thing. Without the spirit the body cannot move. They are daily experiencing that without spirit the body is nothing, decomposed matter. But still they are simply licking up that decomposed matter without taking care of the spiritual. This is the most defective position of the modern society. So it is not a Hindu religion or Christian religion. It is a science to understand.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: It is very difficult to understand that our movement is spiritual movement, and they do not understand what is spiritual, the whole world. That is the defect. But still we are going on. That is Kṛṣṇa's grace. Otherwise, nobody understands what is the aim or what is the platform. (Some kids yell "Hare Kṛṣṇa" in disrespectful tones outside the room. Prabhupāda and devotees laugh)

Hari-śauri: It's amazing when you think how we're expanding all the time. It's really amazing.

Prabhupāda: It is Kṛṣṇa's grace. Therefore they take us as one of these Guruji and Babaji, like this, like that. But when they read our books, higher class, they understand the seriousness of it. They admit that this is India's original, traditional knowledge. Higher, higher circle, they don't want any imitation.

Hari-śauri: No, someone with a little intelligence, he's not befooled by...

Prabhupāda: No. During British period, high British officers, big, big managers, they liked Indians with original culture. They did not like any Indian with European imitation-pants, coats. They didn't like these imitations. My Godbrother, that German, Sadānanda.... You have heard his name or you have seen him?

Jagadīśa: No.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: That's all right, he's on the line of goodness. But those who are not chanting, they're all bad. Do you understand it or not? Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. One who is not a devotee of God, he has no good qualification. You may propose that "I am so much good, I am this, I am that," but it is all bogus thing. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). He's simply concocting in the mind. And so far a devotee's concerned, even you find some defect in him, he's sādhu. Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). Api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). Now I find some defective state. Kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā. These defects will be out very soon. Don't bother. But because he is devotee, he's sādhu.

Indian man (4): So you mean to say, prabhu, truthfulness and honesty will come after chanting, chanting, chanting.

Prabhupāda: But those who are not devotees, there is no truthfulness at all. Here he has begun truthfulness. But one who is not a devotee, he has no question of truthfulness. He's simply concocting in the mind. Manorathena. And because he's on the mental platform, he'll do all bad things.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: This is not wanted. He is spirit. He has nothing to do with this material world, but he wanted it. Or the real thing is that he wanted to enjoy by becoming the master. He is servant... Sometimes servants desire it that "Why I become servant? Why not master?" That is natural. But the natural position is he is servant. If he remains servant of Kṛṣṇa, then he's happy always. But because he desired to become master, so he cannot become master in the spiritual world, because in the spiritual world the master is one. So he is given the chance, "All right, go to the material world and become a master." But that is a falldown. So he's trying struggle for existence, and everyone is trying to become master. Even one is in this spiritual knowledge that "I am spirit soul," still he's trying to become master. That is Māyāvāda. They have understood that "I am not this body, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, but I am the supreme Brahman." The same disease is there—master. Therefore they are condemned, arūhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam tataḥ (SB 10.2.32). Because the mentality to remain master is continuing, even they are in the Brahman, merge into the Brahman, the mastership mentality is there; therefore he falls down again. Because mastership exhibition can be done in this material world. So many Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they give up, "This world is false," and they merge, so-called merge, but the mastership mentality is there. But in the void, simply spiritual light, he cannot do any mastership; therefore again falls down in this false world, and he wants to be by becoming a leader of hospital, and school, college, a Christian missionary. And our Vivekananda also imitated that. So this, this is the material disease. He is actually servant, but he wants to become master. That is the defect.

Prabhupada Visits Palace and Garden -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That means you do not know seriously what is soul. You have simply an idea, but you do not know in detail. Just like they say, the Christians, "God is great." But they do not know who is God and what is the meaning of greatness. That they do not know. They accept this theoretically or religious sentimentally, "God is great." Just like your state says, "In God We Trust." As soon as I inquire what kind of trust and to whom, there is no reply. That means they do not know what is God, what is trust. As a matter of slogan they write, that's all. Even the state heads, and what to speak of the nonsense ordinary citizens. Seriously taking, it is very important question. They should have reply. But they do not know how to reply.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: With all of the situations that take place in the material world, they may not be able to see how God is actually active in the material world, that whether there's a war or whether...

Prabhupāda: Well, that you should.... Why you should remain in ignorance how God is acting? If you are serious about God, then you must know. Just like a statesman, he knows how government is acting. Ordinary man, he knows government is acting, but he does not know how government is acting. But advanced in knowledge, they know what is the constitution, how the government is acting. That is the difference. Therefore lawyer is appointed when there is some trouble. He can find out where is the defect. That is advancement of knowledge. (end)

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: "I am not talking about the church. Church or no church, that is not the point. The main thing is that the leaders have to accept that there is a supreme controller. How can they deny it? Everything in nature is going on under the Supreme Lord's control. The leaders cannot control nature, so why don't they accept a supreme controller? That is the defect in society. In every respect the leaders are feeling that there must be a supreme controller, and yet they are still denying Him."

Reporter: "But suppose the government is atheistic?"

Prabhupāda: "Then there cannot be good government. Americans say they trust in God, but without the science of God, that trust is simply fictitious. First take the science of God very seriously, then put your trust in Him. They do not know what God is, but we do. We actually trust in God. They are manufacturing their own way of governing, and that is their defect. They will never be successful. They are imperfect, and if they go on manufacturing their own ways and means they will remain imperfect. There will always be revolutions, one after another. There will be no peace."

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That is our proposal. Our real business is how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. So simply for improving the condition of life, the necessities of life, if I forget my real business, is that intelligence? Therefore it is said duṣkṛtinaḥ. Kṛti means merit. But merit is being utilized for sinful activities. Take for example the meat-eaters. When man was... The uncivilized man is still there. In the uncivilized way they are living in the jungle. They require to eat something. So they stone over an animal going, and the animal dies, and then they eat. Now instead of killing the animal by stoning, if you have discovered scientific machine in the slaughterhouse to kill the animal, is that improvement? If you think this is advancement, "Now we have discovered very technical machine. Instead of stoning one animal killing, it takes so much time, hundreds and thousands of animals you can kill in one hour," do you think that is improvement? That is going on. They think this is improvement. When we were uncivilized, we were stoning some animal and killing and eating, now we are, business is the same—animal killing and eating. But we have improved the machine how to kill. This is going on. This is going on as advancement of civilization. Hmm? What is your answer? Is that advancement of civilization? Now you are civilized, instead of killing the animal, you just take milk from it without killing and make so many nice preparations, and that is civilization. But killing is sinful. You have no right to kill any animal, even an ant. Because you cannot give life to anyone. It is nature's law, God's law. So infringement on the laws of nature or God, it is sinful activities. So you are utilizing your merit for this sinful activity. Therefore it is called duṣkṛtinaḥ. Merit is there, but it is utilized for sinful activities. That is defect of the modern civilization.

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: White spot means decomposed. Fungus. Nānā yoni brāhmaṇa kare kadārya bhakṣaṇa kari' tāra janma adho pate yāya.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we can point out all the defects in their system but then they say "But there is no proof that such a perfect society has ever existed as you speak of. We have no evidence that such a perfect society exists."

Prabhupāda: You can see, come and see with us. Live in our New Vrindaban, you'll see.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Then they say "Well, that is all right for you, but that is not practical for everyone."

Kīrtanānanda: Why not? We are human beings, and you are human being.

Prabhupāda: So what is not practical for you, our system, your system is also not practical for us. We cannot live in this way. Anyway, if you can maintain a perfect community of plain living, high thinking, that is sufficient. We do not canvass, but naturally they will see that this is convenient. After all, they are human beings. They are learning. So that is part of our business to preach, but to practice personally, that is our main business. To practice personally, that is our main business. Not that everyone will be preacher, but at least his own life be perfect. What is this kijariya?

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: The defect of modern civilization is that they have no idea about liberation. Neither they have any idea about transmigration of the soul. From the very root, they are defective. They are thinking... Just like animals. Dog is thinking, "I am this dog. I am born dog and I'll die, that's finished, everything." He cannot think that "I can become also man." He cannot think that. So the modern civilization, they cannot think even that there is next life and we can go... They have got the tendency to go to the higher planetary system, moon. Artificially, they are trying, but they do not know. Just like they can go to any planet, sarvaga. Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṛn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ (BG 9.25). They do not know this, although they have got the tendency to go. But they do not know how to go, positively what are the position of the different planets or Vaikuṇṭhaloka or liberation or next life, transmigration—nothing of the sort. Simply like dogs. Now consider this point, whether I'm speaking right or wrong. I know I am speaking the right thing, but if you deny, then you talk amongst yourselves.

Arrival Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Vipina: After he took those books home and he read them, he wrote us a letter, and he said that he thought you were a very intelligent man and would like to speak to you. So we'll see. Maybe he can hear.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are speaking something not of this world, but we are pointing out the defects of this world. "This world" means the world of sense gratification.

Vṛṣākapi: The karmīs, they say "What is the matter with sense gratification?" They say they like sense gratification; it's very good.

Prabhupāda: Very good, but if you can continue it. But you rascal, you cannot continue it. "Very good, I am now president," but why you are kicked out? Huh? Now, what about the Nixon? Very good, he was president, now he's kicked out, what is his position? He doesn't think that, that "I may be kicked out from my position at any moment. So what is the value of my sense gratification?" He was gratifying his senses. As he liked, he was doing. But now he's kicked out, what he can do now? Why does he not think that? Take the living example. Who wants to be kicked out from the presidency? But now he's kicked out. He's living also. He's not in that position. That Kruschev, he's not in that position. Why does he not think that "Any moment I'll be kicked out." And what is that enforcement that kicks out?

Vṛṣākapi: Why don't they think like that, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Provided he lives billions of years. But he's finished within fifty years. (laughter) And his theory remains. The rascal cannot remain more than fifty years, and he's talking of billions of years. This is the defect. Who will see after billions of years? He is finished within hundred years. These are theories only. We see practically. Egg appears like chemical combination, but if you give, proper fermentation will come, fermentation?

Devotee: Fermentation.

Prabhupāda: It comes within few days. Why billions of years? Why should we wait for billions of years? This is nonsense. We see practically a bird can give birth to a child within few days, within a week. Why should we wait for billions of years? What kind of scientist you are? (laughter) Proposing to wait for millions... You nonsense. Who's going to accept your foolish theory? We see practically that within a week, and you say billions of years. Nonsense, stop that. Tell them, "You are nonsense, stop. Don't expose yourself any more." We see here, practically, within a week the life comes. Suppose the egg is a chemical composition. It is, it is chemical composition, that's a fact. But it gives life within a week. Why shall I wait for billions of years? Just see their foolishness. And this is being accepted as scientific.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: All other business subordinate. That is only, because you have got this body, material body, it requires little rest, little sense gratification, little eating, little sleeping. We don't say stop it completely. That is not possible. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya, as far as it is required. As little as possible. That is spiritual advancement. If we make our progressive life engaged in understanding Kṛṣṇa instead of devoting in these unnecessary things, that is real life. That is real human life. The Vedic civilization is that. We find Vyāsadeva writing so exalted books, but life was very simple. People are, now in the modern civilization, people are accustomed only to the comforts of the body. Not for spiritual advance. That is the defect of modern civilization.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: This is due to our limited knowledge. Because I am a person, I have got my limited knowledge. I am thinking of God, "If God is a person, then He has limited knowledge." That means I am bringing God to my level. That is my defect. We say God is all-powerful, almighty, still He cannot become a person. Why do you think that? If He is almighty, He can become person. Then why do you deny it?

Guest (4): I don't.

Prabhupāda: Then there is no question, you see.

Guest (4): But I still want to ask a question, not that it's a right question, but I do want to ask it. I'm not sure that I can formulate it, but it would be a little like this, maybe. Uh, uh, well, maybe I don't have to ask it. I'll skip it. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: No, you are Christian?

Guest (4): No. I am...

Prabhupāda: You are not Christian? Whatever you may be...

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Guest (5): (Sanskrit)....

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is explained by Caitanya,

nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktis

tatrārpitā niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ

etādṛśī tava kṛpā bhagavān mamāpi

durdaivam īdṛśam ihājani nānurāgaḥ

The holy name of God is so powerful, as good as God. Nāmnām akāri bahudhā, He has got thousands of names, hundreds of names, and each name is invested with the power of God Himself. So in this age this chanting of holy name of God is recommended, I can take advantage of it, but I am so unfortunate I have no inclination. So easy thing, but still I am so unfortunate I do not wish to take the name of God. This is stated by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. etadṛśi tava kṛpā bhagavān mamāpi. "Bhagavān, my Lord, You are so merciful, I can be direct connection with You simply by chanting Your holy name. You have given this facility in this age, and still I am so unfortunate I am not inclined." Tam abhyarcya. We are not inclined to worship. That is the defect. When there is question of worshiping Him, so many things we bring in, not to worship Him, just to counteract the proposal. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. So we bring all kinds of argument how to not to become a bhakta. That is our misfortune. He says "You become My devotee." We are putting arguments, how not to become His devotee. That is our misfortune. We bring all arguments. This is misfortune.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: They say, they may say, but first of all, what is the position of the conditioned soul? Four defects. You must commit mistakes, you must be illusioned, his senses are imperfect, and he's a cheater. These are the four defects of conditioned souls. So how the conditioned soul can give perfect knowledge?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is our conclusion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The position of conditioned soul is that he must commit mistake, and he's illusioned, and his senses are imperfect, and he wants to cheat. Everyone speaks something. You know that he has no perfect knowledge in the subject matter, still he wants to speak something. That means he wants to cheat. This is going on. And then after some years somebody says, "No, it was not correct." That means he cheated. The former scientists or philosophers cheated.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Why ask?

Prabhupāda: Yes. He has no perfect knowledge and he proposed something and now it is incorrect. And the man who is correcting, he's also a cheater. This is going on, this is their paramparā system. One cheater, another cheater, another cheater. So why shall I believe the cheaters?

Devotee (1): They've convinced us by their machines.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā

varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ

svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya

saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam

(SB 1.2.13)

Everyone is engaged in his occupational duties. Everyone is engaged. Generally according to Vedic civilization, the society is divided into eight divisions. Varṇāśrama-dharma it is called-four varṇas and four āśramas. Materially, four varṇas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. And spiritually, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. These eight divisions. So according to these eight divisions, everyone has an occupational duty. So what is the duty and how the duty is perfected? That is hari-toṣaṇam, to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That people do not know. Especially at the present moment, they do not know who is Hari and they do not know how to please Him. That is the defect of the modern civilization, that they do not care to know who is God and how to satisfy Him. That is the defect. The life is meant for, human life, for satisfying God. That is going on under religious system, and the Vedic civilization is called varṇāśrama-dharma. Dharma is not a kind of faith, religion is not a kind of faith, but it is a duty, varṇāśrama-dharma. So that duty we are forgetting. And therefore we are coming to the level of animals. Because the cats and dogs, they have no duty-animal. But human being has an obligation, a duty to understand God and to satisfy Him. That is human life. Without this knowledge, without this performance of duty, human life is on the level of animals. There are many other verses in this connection. Where are others? They are not present here?

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is the defect of modern civilization, that they do not care to know what is God and what is our duty. That is lacking.

Dr. Sharma:

yā niśā sarva-bhūtānāṁ

tasyāṁ jāgarti saṁyamī

yasyāṁ jāgrati bhūtāni

sā niśā paśyato muneḥ

Prabhupāda: So we are trying to enlighten...

Vṛṣākapi: This gentleman is from the embassy, Śrīla Prabhupāda. The ambassador couldn't come personally but sent his representative.

Vipina: The minister of political affairs at the embassy, Venkateshvara.

Prabhupāda: Venkateshvara? So by evolutionary process we come to this human form of life. It is a chance to understand the value of life, to understand God and our relationship with God, and if we are missing this opportunity, that's a great loss. Then you again become in another form of life. That is sure. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change this body, and if we are not prepared, what kind of body we are going to get next life, then we remain like animals. The animal does not know. And human life, if you are missing this important point, that "I am going to change this body, and what kind of body I'm going to get?" if I do not know, then what is the difference between me and the animal?

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Professor Flemings: How do you know if you have satisfied God?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the intelligent question. If you do not know who is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and how He is satisfied, then you are lacking knowledge. That is being instructed in the Bhagavad-gītā. God Himself is instructing how you can satisfy Him. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). It is not very difficult. Anyone can do it. "Just always think of Me," God says, Kṛṣṇa says. "Always think of Me." Just as we think of our friend, of our master, of our beloved, similarly we can think of God also. There is no difficulty. But if you have no knowledge about God, how you can think of God? That is the defect. So the..., how God is satisfied, that is there, but if you do not do it... That is our business, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Four things. God says that "You always think of Me, you become My devotee, you just offer Me obeisances, just worship Me," four things. Anyone can do it. It is not difficult.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is have already explained, that you serve God in any position, but if you want to know about God more, then you have to come here. Now ask any Christian what is God, who is God, what is His form, what He is doing. Can he answer? Nobody can answer. He knows God is great. How great He is, who is that God, they cannot answer. To some extent it is all right, but if you want to know full extent, then you have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "Two plus two is equal to four" is mathematics, but if you want to know higher mathematics, you have to go some higher college. "Two plus two" is also mathematics, is it not? Everyone knows two plus two equal to four. So when you go to higher university, that "two plus two" does not change, but you know more about it. Because one has gone to higher university, the previous education, "two plus two," has changed, it is not that. But as a Christian you understand God is great, "two plus two," but how He is great, that you have to learn in the Vedas. That is real education. Because you do not know how He is great, therefore you do so many sinful activities. Otherwise, how it is possible to maintain slaughterhouse? Christian doctrine says "Thou shall not kill." But he does not understand; therefore his business has become to kill only. This is the defect. Why you are disobeying the orders of Christ, "Thou shall not kill"? Because you do not understand him properly.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Here is a scientist. You have not studied properly. That is defect. So why defective knowledge you are declaring as knowledge? That is cheating. When you have perfect knowledge, then you declare. That is science.

Mr. Boyd: Then you advocate that Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be practiced in every action that you take.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is practice. Abhyāsa-yoga-yuktena cetasā nānya-gāminā (BG 8.8).

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Scientists at the present time, they say like this because their knowledge is simply illusion.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Real knowledge is covered.

Prabhupāda: Just like this planetary system. So many planets are there. They do not know anything. And they are going to the Mars. They are going to the moon. All bluff. Two things unsolved. They do not know what is life and they do not know what are these planetary system. And still, they are speaking on these two subjects as authority. That is bluff.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Now, in Christian commandment, there is "Thou shalt not kill." So what does it mean? (door opens and closes)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: These Chinese Bhagavad-gītās came, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Chinese will be color?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he said there was some defect with them, so they rectified that, the color.

Rūpānuga: Who has done this, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: One devotee.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, this is nice! (laughs)

Hari-śauri: This is the first six chapters.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He mentioned that he's going to begin printing the second six chapters soon, within two months, and also a new Chinese magazine. (end)

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Indian man (3): Not blindly.

Prabhupāda: Not blindly. But you must know... Just like if you accept the government, and the government orders, "This man should be hanged," you have to accept it. You cannot protest that "The government has ordered this man should be hanged. It should be protested." And who will care for your protest? Government is government. You cannot criticize. You may criticize on account of your less intelligence, but government order is all. Is it not? If government orders that "This man should be hanged," can you say anything against it? It will not be accepted. Similarly, if you know that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord, then as Arjuna said, sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava (BG 10.14). Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitram (BG 10.12). Unless you understand Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's personality, you will try to weight the strength of His words, the value of His words. But if you understand other statement... Just like Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7), "I am the supreme authority." So if He is the supreme authority, then whatever He has said, it is all right. But if you have doubt about He's supreme authority, then you will find out His fault. That is the defect.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That they do not know. That point is missing that there is another life which is eternal, blissful, life of knowledge. But they have no idea that we can eternally live without birth, death, old age, and disease. There is no information, neither education, but there is a life very... If you get eternal life, then the tribulations of material life no longer are there: birth, death, old age, and disease. But they have no idea or information because there is no intelligent man to understand that there is another life which is eternal, and life of bliss and knowledge. There is no information. That is the defect of the modern civilization, they are living like animals. No intelligence. So actually human life is meant for purifying our existential condition so that we may not be subjected to birth, death, old age, and disease. That they are missing. They do not know, neither there is any education, nor university. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to educate people on that line. It is not a sentimental religious system, it is an educational system. How one can transfer himself to eternal blissful life. Satsvarūpa is there?

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We accept that no one is perfect.

Prabhupāda: No, controlled. That is their defect. They are being controlled in every step, still, they think they are free. That is their defect. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). They are fully controlled by the laws of nature, still the great rascal, he's thinking that he's free.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But gradually, they say, we will learn to control nature.

Prabhupāda: That gradual, that will never come, and that is their another foolishness.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes they are seeing, though, that by their endeavors they are successful. Just like they may try to cure some disease, and then sometimes they are seeing that they are baffled. This leads them to think they are independent. This is leading them to think that they are independent, that sometimes they are successful.

Prabhupāda: No, they try their best, but still they are baffled. That means they admit there is some controller.

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Anyway, there must be defect because the love is reposed in some defective or imperfect personality. It may be Lenin or it may be Washington. It doesn't matter. He's imperfect. Love is there. Otherwise why so many people are working? But because it is misplaced, they are not satisfied. Therefore it is stated, yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. Adhokṣaje, this word, is used. God.... They may say that "Where is God?" And therefore the word is adhokṣaje: "beyond your sense perception." Everything is within sense perception. So therefore this very word is used, that "You cannot see, you cannot perceive, but still, you have to love Him." Adhokṣaje. They say, therefore, that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is some ideal, imagination, Kṛṣṇa. They think.... They say, I have an imaginary form of Kṛṣṇa, a stone, and "Unnecessarily they are wasting their time, loving Kṛṣṇa." What is their theory? You know that?

Harikeśa: Some people think.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Bhūgarbha: He says just like Vaiṣṇavism is also coherent, but one has to study very deeply. Otherwise, one cannot see it. He said if we examine all the religions and find out the axiomatic truths of every religion, we'll see how they are all coherent.

Prabhupāda: No. The thing is that religion means to understand God. If one does not understand God, then his religion is still defective. Religion means to understand God. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje ahaituky apratihatā (SB 1.2.6). When you understand God and your relationship with God, then it is perfection of religion.

Bhūgarbha: He said that he feels very thankful that you've given him such a long darśana. He's very happy that you've given so much enlightenment in many subjects. He's just passing through with his daughter. He'd like to stay tomorrow to see the installation of the Deities, but he has to go to a Tibetan temple in the south of France. On Saturday he has to be there, so he has to drive, and he said that he's found the Tibetans are also very good devotees.

Prabhupāda: Very good. Jaya. (end)

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Dayānanda: A spiritual master, I mean. They must have the person.

Prabhupāda: Yes, spiritual master, yes, must be there. That is Vedic injunction. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Spiritual, that I have already explained. Spiritual master, good father, good king, good teachers, they are required. That is defect. There is no guru, there is no spiritual master, there is no nice king, nice father, whole society... (break) (in room) If you find out sand and rocks, you must also (indistinct) there was water. And from water, vegetation comes. From vegetation, other life comes. What we speak, we don't speak unscientifically. It is scientific. How this rascal says all of a sudden in the sky there is rocks? Wherefrom the rock came?

Hari-śauri: Well, they say originally from gas.

Prabhupāda: Gas?

Hari-śauri: Gas.

Prabhupāda: So gas, without water, there cannot be gas.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda:

yaṁ brahmā varuṇendra rudra marutaḥ stunvanti divyaiḥ stavair

vedaiḥ sāṅga-pada-kramopaniṣadair gāyanti yaṁ sāma-gāḥ

dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yogino

yasyāntaṁ na viduḥ surāsura-gaṇā devāya tasmai namaḥ

In Vedic prayer it is like this. Yasyāntaṁ na viduḥ surāsura-gaṇāḥ. Yasya antam, the glories of the Lord, unlimited. So nobody can go to the limit of His glorification, either the sura or asura, the demons or the demigods. Nobody can reach. But He's glorified by the demigods like, yaṁ brahmā, Brahmā, Lord Brahmā, Śiva, Varuṇa, the predominating deity of air, fire, Lord Brahmā. Everyone worships Him, yaṁ brahmā varuṇendra-rudra stunvanti divyaiḥ stavaiḥ, by glorified prayers. And gāyanti yaṁ sāma-gāḥ. Vedaiḥ sāṅga-pada-kramopaniṣadaiḥ—by Vedic hymns, by Upaniṣad, by Vedic literature. Gāyanti yaṁ sāma-gāḥ. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). The yogis in meditation try to find out Him within the core of the heart. Yasyāntaṁ na viduḥ surāsura-gaṇā devāya tasmai namaḥ. The same prayer. The difference is the action. Difference is in the action. So far prayer is concerned, God is great, accepted, either by the Christian or the Muhammadan or the Hindus or the followers of Vedic principles. Now "God is great, glorify Him, and that is the business of human life," that they are not taking. Practically. That is the defect.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: The whole education is to realize that "I am not this body, I am soul," ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). Then he'll be happy. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām. Everything is there. You cannot become a learned scholar or learned leader from the platform of go-kharaḥ. That is the defect. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) this is the first instruction. Who is thinking that "What next body I'm going to accept?" Nobody's thinking. They say after finishing this body everything is finished. And Gītā says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Then what kind of paṇḍita he is? Bhagavad-gītā says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), nityam, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. The soul is immortal. Antavanta ime dehāḥ: the śarīra is antavat, perishable. Nityasyoktāḥ śarīrinaḥ. Who is considering? If I am eternal, if I am not going to die even after the annihilation of the body, then the next question would be jijñāsuḥ. Then what will be my next position? What kind of body I am going to get? That is intelligent. But nobody has this intelligence, and he's passing as paṇḍita. Big, big professor, they'll say, "Swamiji, after death, everything is finished." I went to Moscow. There was a big professor, Kotovsky, Indology professor.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Indian response we have seen when we held meeting in Calcutta, Bombay, Madras, thousands and thousands of people come here to hear about Bhagavad-gītā. Inherently they are inclined, but there is no systematic education. That is the defect. Now the Janmāṣṭamī day is coming I think every Indian will observe Kṛṣṇa Janmāṣṭamī, without any fail. But they are not being educated systematically about Kṛṣṇa. They know Kṛṣṇa, they are inclined to Kṛṣṇa, the education of Kṛṣṇa is there, but nobody is interested to give them properly, systematically. That is the difficulty.

Interviewer (4): How is the response in the West?

Prabhupāda: Of course it is a foreign thing for them, but still they are coming and taking it very seriously.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Interviewer (4): But that is (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Yes, that we say practically. What is the use of "ism," manufactured by imperfect senses. We have got defects. Our..., we commit mistake. Who is the person who does not commit mistake? None. We accept this body, which I am not, this is called pramada. Pramada vipralipsa,(?) without any perfect knowledge you want to teach. That is cheating. Vipralipsa. And karnapada(?), our senses are imperfect. So how you can give perfect knowledge with all this imperfection? Unless you become perfect, you cannot give perfect knowledge. So any knowledge given by any imperfect person, we reject immediately, useless waste of time. And actually that is the fact. If you are blind, you cannot see. You say, "Here is the elephant, a big stambha, pillar," by seeing his leg, by touching his leg. But elephant is just like a pillar? That is our speculation. Andha-kūpa, what is called? Kūpa-maṇḍūka. A frog in the well is trying to study Atlantic Ocean.

Room Conversation with Endowments Commissioner of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Commissioner: They don't have people. They said, "We don't have men even for our own missions."

Prabhupāda: No. How long they can go on with false pretense? And these people, they have no idea what is spiritual life. It is a profession for collecting money. So if you... We do not like to criticize. Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, Kanayalal Munshi, he did not believe there is life after death or he did not believe there is Kṛṣṇa, fact. This is the founder. So what is their knowledge? And Vivekananda made Nārāyaṇa daridra. So this is their manufacturing ideas. They have no sound knowledge, vacant. They are misled themselves, and they will mislead others. This is going on. But if you say that, "You are the only man?" I can say, "Yes, I am the only man" at the present moment. You believe or not believe. And why? Because I am following Kṛṣṇa's instructions. That's all. I do not touch anything. That is our process. What Kṛṣṇa has said, we say, that's all. Therefore there is little success. I don't manufacture. I have no extraordinary power or I cannot show magic or jugglery of words. But I do sincerely to present what Kṛṣṇa has said. So if you do that, you'll be successful. If you do not do that, you'll never be successful. If you manufacture idea... We must know that we are defective. Our manufacturing of idea all defective. We must take standard instructions from Kṛṣṇa. Then everything... So if you stick to this point, then we can guide you. And you'll be successful. Guidance is Kṛṣṇa. Our duty is to present Kṛṣṇa. Just like somebody has sent you money order, 1,000 rupees. I am a peon. I am not giving you the money. The money is sent by somebody. But I do not open it, adulterate it—that is my honesty. That is my honesty.

Room Conversation -- September 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And he was old. So he had to agree. Otherwise, the whole thing was catastrophe. So the king said, "Yes. She's not married. If you like I can offer my daughter to you." Then everything was settled up. But the daughter was young, and he was like her grand, great-grandfather. Match was not at all suitable, but he had to offer. So this girl also took it seriously, and she was serving the old husband very faithfully like honest, chaste wife. Never mind. Then, some days after, the same saintly person was visited by two heavenly physicians, aśvinī-kumāras. The aśvinī-kumāras, they had some difficulty. They were not allowed in the society of the demigods while drinking soma-rasa. They had some defects, something like that. So when the physician came to see Cyavana Muni he said that "If you can give me young age, beautiful, you can make me by your treatment beautiful young man, which is very pleasing to young girls, then I shall give you the facility of drinking soma-rasa in the society of demigods." "Yes." So he made him very nice beautiful-looking young man by taking him to a certain lake, and they dipped down and all of them became fresh young men, beautiful, very beautiful. So his chaste wife, she could not recognize, "Who is my husband?" They look all very beautiful young men.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: She is expert in typing. Amongst the women, she is expert typist. She is expert in so many things. Only defect is that she is woman. But Kṛṣṇa says, striyaḥ śūdrās tathā vaiśyaḥ: "Never mind woman. If she is devotee, she also comes to Me." Striyaḥ śūdrās tathā, "no one barred." Especially naming, striyaḥ śūdrās tathā vaiśya te 'pi yānti parām. Everyone is to be.... Kṛṣṇa is so kind. There is no restriction. Everyone is open to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Jīvera 'svarūpa' haya-nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). This is open to all living entities. There is no restriction. And so long this body is there, material, there is distinction between this and that. Otherwise, when you come to the platform of spiritual understanding, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18), then there is no restriction. Higher, lower, this, that, so many. Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ (CC Madhya 13.80). So any newspaper propaganda against us? No. One complaint is standing, that with our life members and others, subscriber, they always complain they are not getting paper, they are not getting book. That is the general complaint.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: You are seeing also Kṛṣṇa, but because you have no love, therefore you cannot appreciate how we are seeing. If you love some person you keep his photograph on the breast. Is it not? So you are seeing Kṛṣṇa in the temple, but because you have no love you think that "I am not seeing Him." That is the defect. They are seeing Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise why they have sacrificed everything for worshiping Kṛṣṇa, for dressing Kṛṣṇa, for feeding Kṛṣṇa? They are seeing Kṛṣṇa. They are not wasting their time. But you have no love for Kṛṣṇa. You're thinking that "They have not seen Kṛṣṇa. They are worshiping an idol." That is the difference. One who loves somebody he keeps his picture on his chest. He does not? He throws it, same picture. It is question of love. Therefore it is said, premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu (Bs. 5.38). One who has developed that love and bhakti, he can see Kṛṣṇa at every moment. Otherwise it is not possible. And because you cannot see, you ask them also, "Can you see?" But the seeing process is different. We do not know the process; therefore we are thinking that Kṛṣṇa cannot be seen. And one who knows the process, he sees every moment. Is it clear? You learn the process; you will see Kṛṣṇa every moment. Therefore this word is used, premāñjana-cchurita. By the eye ointment of love you have to smear your eyes; then you'll be able to see Kṛṣṇa. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ (BG 7.25). Find out this verse. Yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ. When one's eyes is covered by the yoga-māyā he cannot see, see Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: The point is that... You can explain in this way, that goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ (Bs. 5.37). Kṛṣṇa is in the Goloka planet which is far, far away from our planet, but still He is everywhere. That is the difference. That you cannot imagine. In our material knowledge you cannot imagine that. But that is the fact. Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati, tad aham aśnāmi: (BG 9.26) "Anyone offering Me in devotion patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam, I eat." Now, Kṛṣṇa is living far, far away in the Goloka planet. How He can eat? That is your imagining. But Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, I do." That is Kṛṣṇa. Although He is far, far away, He is within your heart. That you cannot imagine, how it is possible. That is your material knowledge. But you have to accept from the statement of śāstra that although He is far, far away, within your heart. Aṇḍāntara-stha-para... He is within the atom also. So that you cannot imagine. That requires a different knowledge, Vedic knowledge. The material knowledge will not help you, but you cannot imagine. You have to accept Vedic knowledge. What is stated in the Vedas, that you have to accept. That's all. Otherwise there is no possibility. Therefore to understand Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's activities you have to learn from Kṛṣṇa. That is Bhagavad-gītā. You cannot manufacture your knowledge. That is not... Because you are defective—your senses are imperfect—so whatever knowledge you get through your senses, that is all imperfect. You cannot get perfect knowledge by your imperfect senses. That is not possible. Therefore the Vedic injunction is tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to learn that transcendental science you have to approach a guru who knows it.

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Dr. Ramachandra: Jyotiṣām api taj jyotis tamasaḥ param ucyate.

Prabhupāda: Yes. yes. Yes. So you take light from Kṛṣṇa. And that is full light, and you'll be happy. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Don't be satisfied with glimpse of light. Take full light. And that is open to everyone just like the sunshine is open to everyone. If you want to remain in the darkness, in the room, that is your business but you come to the... You can come to the full sunlight. That you can do. Where is the difficulty? Kṛṣṇa is open to everyone. He is speaking everything openly. There is no secret mantra. Everything is there. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī mām. This is open to everyone. Where is the difficulty? Unless we deny to accept Kṛṣṇa's instruction, there is no secret. Everything is open. But our leaders and scholars, they do not like to take Kṛṣṇa's instruction as it is. We are therefore insisting, we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, no interpretation. They say, "Why not interpretation?" That is the defect. We say no interpretation. You take Kṛṣṇa as it is, that's all. Then your life is successful.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: I will give you practical example. Just like you take red water, colored water. So put into the sea, does this mean that sea becomes red? That little spot may be for the time being. Besides that, merging, this is the philosophy of the Māyāvādīs. Actually that is superficial. Just like a bird, green bird, enters into the green tree. You see that bird is vanished. Because the tree is green and the bird is green, you do not know the separate identification. But the bird is there, separate identification. It is not the bird has become zero. A airplane goes to the sky, after some time you don't find the airplane. That doesn't mean the airplane has no more identity, separate. It is separate. It is your defective eyes that you cannot see, that it has got separate existence. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that, "I, you and all these kings who are assembled here, we existed in the past, we are now existing, and we shall exist in the future." That means individual existence will continue. He explains past, present and future. So where is imagination?

Mr. Malhotra: No imagination. But paraṁ pada that is nirvāṇa, or whatever...

Prabhupāda: Yes, paraṁ pada is just like you fly in the sky, go very high. So from here we cannot see that you are separately existing. But you are separately existing. It is my deficient eyes that I see that you are not separate.

Room Conversation with Mr. Tombe (M.L.A.) -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Mr. Tombe: So how can we chalk out a program of, say, training of leaders from the villages...

Prabhupāda: Yes. You have to take lessons from the biggest leader, Kṛṣṇa. Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). He's the leader of the demigods also. We have to take lesson from... That lesson is there, Bhagavad-gītā. But we do not take it. We manufacture our leadership. That is the defect. What Kṛṣṇa said... Everyone is proud of reading Bhagavad-gītā, but the purpose of Bhagavad-gītā is how to kill Kṛṣṇa, that's all. That is their... All these. What can I say? These misleaders, they are doing that. Leadership is already there. Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna is learning from Kṛṣṇa. So if you learn from Kṛṣṇa you become perfect leader. But we do not take Kṛṣṇa's instruction. We manufacture our own ideas. That is failure. Otherwise in our country so many learned sages, especially Kṛṣṇa is there, and their books are there, their instructions are there. We do not take them. Still we become leader. So what kind of leading? He's imperfect. So he cannot lead. Then there will be some mistake and chaos. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu said... He said bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41). You understand little Bengali?

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: He means to say, sir, that the māyākāra is not there. But the divyākāra is there as we say. Let us understand him.

Prabhupāda: No, He... Nirākāra is there. So far His management power is going on, that is nirākāra. But that nirākāra does not mean that I am also nirākāra. That is the defect. The Supreme Person, it is confirmed by the śāstra. The Absolute Truth is person ultimately.

vadanti tat tattva-vidas

tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam

brahmeti paramātmeti

bhagavān iti śabdyate

(SB 1.2.11)

So those who are simply captivated by the Brahman, nirākāra, they are in the, just in the beginning of knowledge. Their knowledge is not perfect. That is not Vedānta. That is knowledge, but it is not anta. And Vedānta means the ultimate knowledge. And that is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). If one does not know Kṛṣṇa, he's not a Vedāntist. That is my point . He does not know what is Vedānta. The veda-anta means Kṛṣṇa. Anta means the last word. The last word is brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. Bhagavān. Unless one goes to the Supreme Lord Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa, he's not a Vedāntist. That is my point. Veda means knowledge.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Bhāgavata-dharma.

Prabhupāda: No, this is real dharma. Bhāgavata-dharma is real, Bhagavān. Bhāgavata-dharma means in a relationship with Bhagavān. So if you do not know Bhagavān then what is this knowledge? That is the defect. All dharmas, there may be Christian dharma, Hindu dharma, this dharma, that dharma. Ask any one of them, "Do you know Bhagavān?" "Zero." "Nirākāra." Nirākāra means zero. When you come to the right point, zero. No substance. Therefore they have got this prayer, nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe. This is going on. Śūnyavādi and nirviśeṣa. Nirākāravādi. We say... There are so many points. We say that "the Supreme Father," the Christians say. So how the Supreme Father can be nirākāra? We have got experience, my father has ākāra. His father has got ākāra, his father has got ākāra. So if you go to the Supreme Father, now how He is nirākāra? I may not have seen my great grandfather but that does not mean he's nirākāra. So I may not have seen God but if God is Supreme Father how he can be nirākāra? (Hindi)

Guest (2): Lord Jesus Christ, the son of God, he's a person. His father must be person.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is common sense. If son of God, if the son has form, how the father hasn't got form? What do you say? I'm asking you. This English boy. How the father can be formless? Christ says that he's the son of God. Is it not?

Englishman: He said he was, yes.

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But in our Māyāpur, that plant, we spent so much, it has not become successful.

Indian man: No that is mechanical fault. Just like electricity now it has failed. Now sir, we should not stop utilizing electricity.

Prabhupāda: No, any machine, that defect will be there.

Indian man: But that we have been working for twenty years in Ahmedabad. Everybody is very happy there, and they're actually making money out of it. The fertilizer that is there is about four times what is normally achieved. So good maintenance are required for any...

Prabhupāda: (sneezes loud) I have no objection, but I've got experience. In Māyāpur it is failure.

Indian man (2): Sometimes we get a defective machine. I purchased one for my girl's house. I've got a number of about 30. But one was rejected but...

Indian man: Either defective machine or defective maintenance.

Prabhupāda: Maybe. But the difficulty is there. (sneezes) (pause)

Indian man: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) ...31st to go for Bhuvaneśvara. Then come to Kumbha-mela.

Room Conversation -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Sa eva ayam yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. "Therefore I am saying you again, the old yoga system. It is not that because the time has changed, I am changing." Somebody says, "Now it was spoken some millions of years ago, now it is modern ways, I am explaining in the modern way." That is not the system. The system is I am speaking the same yoga system. Yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. And they are modernizing, making compromise. That is naṣṭa. That is the defect. Therefore we did not get any benefit. And in the modern countries, before me, so many yogis, swamis have been there for the last two hundred years. Not a single person became a Hindu. Now they are calling (them) "American Hindus." Why? Because it was lost. Rotten thing was given. Yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. If you supply something to me which is rotten and decomposed, such foodstuff, what shall I get benefit? Now they are getting benefit. Our mission is to put Bhagavad-gītā as it is. It is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission that He said, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Everyone of you become a guru and deliver these persons, these fallen conditioned souls. That is your business. Now you can say, or I can say that how can I become guru? I have no education, I have no talent. How can I become guru? The answer is yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). You simply repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said, you become guru. So we are doing like that. We haven't got to manufacture. We haven't got to take so much trouble or create it by our fertile brain. We are simply repeating what Kṛṣṇa has said. That's all. And see how it is effective.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So where is that?

Girirāja: They don't follow.

Prabhupāda: This is their defect. Therefore they are failures. Must be failure. They do not take Bhagavad-gītā as it is. They mix with their false ideas. And therefore spoil, adulterate. And bhagavad-bhakti is without adulteration. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (CC Madhya 19.167). Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). Pure. No adulteration. That is bhakti. Jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167). Sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). That is not nirmalam. Sa mala it is. With mala. With mala. Mala. It cannot be. Proportionately. So where she has sent this article?

Girirāja: In some of the newspapers in Vaidore, maybe Nagpur. He's writing for about three or five copies of those original clippings.

Prabhupāda: He has written very nicely. Good writer. Picked up the essence of the movement. That was published. (Hindi) So distribute them. (Hindi) Bhāgavata Darśana?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Next issue. This issue is all finished. Next one.

Prabhupāda: Just stop this light.

Press Interview -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Indian man: And what is the upāsanā you will be prescribing for those people who want to achieve jñāna?

Prabhupāda: Yes, upāsanā. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam ācāryopāsanam (BG 13.8). Vinigrahaḥ, indriya-vinigrahaḥ. Find out this, Thirteenth Chapter. These are the process. First of all amānitvam. You have to surrender yourself that "I am insignificant." But in beginning you are puffed up. "I am so academic. Now I have got Ph.D." Rascals. First, beginning is amānitvam. And as soon as we become puffed-up, a little knowledge... A Little knowledge is dangerous. Then finished. So they are doing like that. A little knowledge, I think, "I have become more than my Guru Mahārāja." Finished. That is the defect.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Everyone must make mistake because a conditioned soul are liable to four defects. One of them is to commit mistake. One of them is to become illusioned. One of them, he is a cheater. And one of them, his senses are imperfect. So every conditioned soul who has got this material body, he is defective in these four things. Therefore he has to take knowledge from a person who has no defects. Then his knowledge will be perfect. Just like a small child, he is defective, but he receives the knowledge from the father: "This is called pencil." A child does not know what it is, but the father says, "My dear child, it is pencil." And if he says, "It is pencil," then it is correct, although he's a child, because he has received the knowledge from the person who knows it. Similarly, our principle is—that is Vedic principle-evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). The knowledge has to be taken from the superior, liberated person. Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā that

imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ

proktavān aham avyayam

vivasvān manave prāhur

manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt

(BG 4.1)

Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam: (BG 4.2) "First of all I said to Vivasvān." The predominating deity in the sun planet is called Vivasvān. His name is Vivasvān. So he spoke to his son Manu. Manu spoke to his son Ikṣvāku. In this way He describes, sa kāleneha mahatā yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa: "That paramparā system is now lost. Therefore I am speaking you the old truth." Yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. That is nothing new; the same thing. And if we give up this paramparā system, then yogo naṣṭaḥ.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Whatever... The rascal says. A rascal says. It is not private. No private-public. It is laws of nature. You have to abide by that. The nature's law is "Now winter. You have to cover your body." There is no second law. So that is wanting, that we are... The present defect is that every one of us under the laws of God or nature, whatever you say. And still, we are declaring independence. This is the defect. Prakrti-stho 'pi.

puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho 'hi

bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān

kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya

sad-asad janma-yoniṣu

(BG 13.22)

Sad-asad-janma. Why? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. He's associating with the different modes of material of nature, infecting, and that is the cause one is born as demigod, one is born as dog, one is born as tree, one is born as human being. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. Therefore we should associate with sat-saṅga. Sat-saṅga chāḍi kāinu, asate vilāsa, te karaṇe lāgi more, karma bandha phāṇsa. Because we have given up sat-saṅga-oṁ tat sat-Kṛṣṇa's saṅga, we are entangled in this asat-saṅga. And that is the cause of my karma-bandha phāṇsa. Sat-saṅga chāḍi kāinu, asate vilāsa: "I wanted to enjoy with asat." Asato mā sad gamaya. Therefore I'm entangled.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm. But they smoke.

Gurudāsa: Yes, some will.

Prabhupāda: That is bad.

Gurudāsa: So, I mean it's up to... I'm asking what you think.

Prabhupāda: They will drink; they will smoke; they will not take bath. These are the defects. These people are unclean.

Gurudāsa: Yes. Suppose they are willing...

Prabhupāda: It will spoil the cleanliness of the...

Gurudāsa: Of course, they would not be in our camp.

Prabhupāda: It may be. But their, that association is very undesirable.

Gurudāsa: Yes, Yes. What if someone is willing to follow the regulations?

Prabhupāda: First they should be shaved, clean-shaved. Will they accept that? They must take early in the water, take bath. Cleanliness.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Only it is far off.

Gurudāsa: And there's another slight defect, which is that it's underneath a railway bridge.

Prabhupāda: Railway bridge?

Gurudāsa: But with all the things that are going on, you can't even hear the trains. Now everyone's starting with... And we have the biggest microphones in the whole Mela. Everyone's got microphones this big. And speakers? Speakers? Ours is this big. We've got the biggest ones, six of them, to point in all directions. So that... We thought we would make up for the distance. I thought I would make up by big speakers. We told Kamalapati Tripati that, "Yes, we are living underneath one of your railway bridges," and he laughed.

Prabhupāda: Ah, he's railway member. So railway bridge there is sound.

Gurudāsa: Yes, but... When trains come by there is sound. Yes, there is sound.

Hari-śauri: There is electricity?

Gurudāsa: There will be, yes.

Hari-śauri: Big power points.

Gurudāsa: Yes. There will be two in Prabhupāda's and two on the pandal.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: Sex.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sex is not bad. When it is misused, that is the defect. Otherwise, sex is not...

Rāmeśvara: The Western conception is that one man can only have one woman.

Prabhupāda: Why? If he can produce many big men, he can have hundreds of women. But you cannot do that. Therefore you are restrained. You are bad. You better restrain. Don't have sex, because you'll produce cats and dogs. But one who is able to produce great brain, great philosophers, he should produce hundreds. You do not know how to produce good brain. Therefore you stop! Don't produce cats and dogs. For you it is "Stop." You do not know how to use sex. Therefore you should stop. (break) You should not any more use sex. But one who can produce better brains should have hundreds of times. You must know how to produce. That is Vedic civilization, dharmaḥ saṁskāra idam...(?) It is not a secrecy, how to produce brain. And because brain is not produced, therefore there is agitation, that they have no brain. They do not know the value of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You have been produced like cats and dogs; therefore you cannot appreciate. Therefore you should stop. But one who has power to produce brain, to produce Kṛṣṇa conscious children, they should be use. Foodstuff is forbidden for a person who cannot digest.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Jagadīśa: In the Kṛṣṇa book you describe that the only person who can't understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the killer of the cow.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Animal. Why cow? Any animal.

nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād

bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano 'bhirāmāt

ka uttamaśloka-guṇānuvādāt

pumān virajyeta vinā paśughnāt

(SB 10.1.4)

Unless one is animal-killer, everyone welcomes God. This very word is used, vinā paśughnāt. Excepting these persons who are animal killers, everyone will welcome Kṛṣṇa. It is so nasty thing, animal-killing. So you require thoroughly to be washed. Then you'll understand. Actually it is brainwashing. Civilized man, in the presence of so many nice grains, fruits, flowers, vegetables, milk, so many things, and you are eating meat like the man in the jungle? Are you civilized? Does it mean that the fruit, flowers and grains is meant for animals? It is meant for human beings. You do not know how to utilize it. You are in the state of the animals. You kill animals and eat. Don't claim that you are civilized. Therefore your brain requires to be thoroughly washed to become civilized. Therefore your brain requires to be thoroughly washed to become civilized, Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then talk of civilization. Therefore Jesus Christ first of all requested you "Don't kill." That is also brainwash, cleanse your brain. But you could not take the brainwash. Your brain is congested with so much dirty things that you could not take the instruction of Jesus Christ, and you claim to be Christian. Be ashamed. Don't come forward. Be ashamed. You have no shame even. You are so—what is called?—fool that you do not know what is defective. What is that English proverb? "Fools rush in where angels dare not." You are such a fool that you are running in to obstruct Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which is... Even the demigods, they aspire after it. You are such a fool.

Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: This is not civilization. They do not know what is civilization. Suppose a mechanic has constructed this car far better than me. That is not civilization. A good craftsmanship. If you do not know what is the aim of life, what is your duty, then what is your civilization? That they do not know. The first defect of the civilization is that they are taking account of these fifty or sixty years of life. Life is continuation. That they do not know. This life, I am getting this facility of this car; next life I become a tree. What is the advantage after fifty years, if you are going to be a tree, stand up for five hundred years? This philosophy they do not know. Tathā dehāntara-praptiḥ (BG 2.13). Here is the defect, that "You will have to change this body." They have become so dullheaded. "Oh, what is there? I change or die? It doesn't matter. Let me enjoy." This is the difficulty.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: And bring that also: "Before the hog, you give him stool and halavā; he will prefer to take the stool." So let it be extremely exposed. We are fighting. Let them be exposed. What is the wrong there?

Gargamuni: We should, in our attack...

Hari-śauri: They're criticizing us. We should point out their defects.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: That attack is the best form of defense.

Gargamuni: "You're a drunkard, you're a smoker, and you're doing all these things." We should turn the tide and expose them.

Prabhupāda: There are many opinion that "This movement is... Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam will save the human society." There are many opinions like that. That's a fact.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Satsvarūpa: "Such great kings were more responsible than modern elected executive heads because they obliged the great authorities by following their instructions left in Vedic literatures. There was no need to enact daily a new legislative bill by impractical fools and to alter it again and again conveniently to serve some purpose. The rules and regulations were already set forth by great sages like Manu, Yājñavalkya, Parāśara, and other liberated sages, and the enactments were all suitable for all ages and all places. Therefore the rules and regulations were standard and without flaw or defect. Kings like Mahārāja Parīkṣit had their council of advisors and all..."

Prabhupāda: Our things on the veranda can be kept inside. Because they are here, somebody may... So many men are coming and going.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That is our misfortune. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Kṛṣṇa is personally speaking, but the mūḍhas and narādhamas, they will not hear to Kṛṣṇa. They have been described... Those who do not hear from Kṛṣṇa or His representative, they have been described, duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ: "Most sinful, rascals, mūḍha, gādhā, and lowest of the mankind." This is their position. It is not my manufacture. It is Kṛṣṇa's... Find out this, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. "No, there are so many educated..." Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. Why? Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. These rascals have taken: "Why shall I hear Kṛṣṇa? Why shall I accept Kṛṣṇa as God?" Āsuri-bhāvam. This is the basic principle of defect. Hm?

Pradyumna:

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛta-jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

(BG 7.15)

Prabhupāda: Āsuram. This is the defect. "Why shall I hear Kṛṣṇa? Oh, here is a big politician. He is commenting." Just see. What is this? For the big politicians, you sacrifice Kṛṣṇa? In the beginning you are finished. Then how you'll make progress?

Guest (2): Politician is wrong.

Prabhupāda: They'll prefer, because to hear Kṛṣṇa is difficult. They'll accept some rascal who will make meaning here and there.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: That... What is your science nonsense? You cannot explain actually what is the position. You are simply speculating—"There is no life," "Somewhere there may be life. Let us take photograph. Let us go." What is your knowledge? We have got some knowledge from the śāstra that they're all full of living entities. And what knowledge you have got? We have got some śāstric evidence, Veda-śāstra. Is full of life, but you have no evidence. You simply speculate. So what is the value of your knowledge? Admitting that you are defective, I am defective, but I have got some authority. You have nothing. You are in the darkness.

Satsvarūpa: We have instruments, calculations.

Prabhupāda: That is also imperfect, because you have prepared. You are rascal; your instrument is rascal. How a rascal can manufacture something perfect? How it is possible? Hm? Anything we attempt to get, knowledge, is imperfect. Only perfect knowledge is when you get it through the perfect person. The same example: you cannot make experiment or speculation who is your father. The only right information—from your mother, that's all. Finish. Otherwise, everything speculation. How you'll rightly understand your father? Except the mother's statement, what is the next alternative? Hm? Is there any?

Gurukṛpā: We're looking. You can ask everybody, every man on the street.

Prabhupāda: That is imperfect. It will never be perfect.

Morning Walk -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: Nowadays coming to power usually means some violent revolution or political maneuvers.

Prabhupāda: They are trying also to correct, but they do not know how to correct. That is the defect. And therefore we take this authority, that "Here everything is correct." Everyone is trying to remodel, but they do not know how to remodel. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) (in car)

Pṛthu-putra: ...but he's not writing books himself. It's all people. They hear his conferences, they collect all his conferences, and they write for him. He never wrote any books himself, Krishnamurti.

Hari-śauri: No, I read a book he wrote. (break) A friend recommended it to me. He said he was very exuberant. He said he'd found a book you could read and throw away at the end. So out of curiosity, I started to read...

Prabhupāda: So why shall I take the trouble? I throw it immediately. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: In India, the Māyāvādīs, they have no idea. "Nirākāra." What is the nonsense, nirākāra? The things are going on, imagination. "You can accept anyone as God." This is going on in India, Hindu religion. They do not know that here is... Kṛṣṇa is God. Only few Vaiṣṇavas, they know what is God. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). Otherwise nobody knows. That is the defect. They do not know God; they do not know what God wants. So where is religion? There is no religion. Bogus. Cheating. They do not know about God, and they do not know what God wants. Then where is the religion? All bogus. They have created something, mano-dharma, mental concoction. Otherwise how they can kill animals, all other religion killing animals. What do they know about God? God... They say, "Supreme father." Eh, and animal has... He's not son. So wherefrom the animal came? If God is supreme father, then He is not father of the animals?

Pṛthu-putra: He's father of everyone.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The chairman gave me a nice letter saying that this is the first type of seminar that he has ever heard in his life. (Prabhupāda chuckles) We made the presentation sound very scientific. We had the slide projection on one side, and this overhead projection on the other side. So it made a good presentation so that people can be attracted. It was quite effective. In fact, it was the most effective so far we have seen, because it was very colorful, the pictures, and we were comparing the fundamental concept of the Absolute Truth as it is understood by modern science and the defects of it, and then what is the alternative, the alternative view. We call it the other alternative scientific view. That is from... We speak about the Second Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, about the nature of life, about the nature of the self. We've taken that it's nonchemical and nonphysical. Then we try to explain it in terms of scientific terminologies and scientific language.

Prabhupāda: The, that verse, that "It does not burn, it does not..."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Nainam... Yes.

Prabhupāda: Nainaṁ chindanti... That is the nonphysical.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Anyway, you are meeting big, big scientists.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But we are saying that our senses are very incomplete, very limited. So how can we...

Prabhupāda: That is our basic principle of knowledge, that every one of us is defective. So you cannot give us complete knowledge. It is not possible. We must receive knowledge from the perfect without defects.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we were bringing that and answering, not answering directly, but saying that whatever we see, whatever we find by experimental science, by these instruments, we see something, but how do we know that... Our matter of receiving knowledge is by itself defective.

Prabhupāda: Defective, yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because actually there are many defects in science.

Prabhupāda: So they do not challenge you that "How your knowledge is perfect?" They do not challenge that?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.

Prabhupāda: No, then they can challenge like that, that "If our knowledge is imperfect, how your knowledge is perfect?" If they challenge like that, what you will answer? (break) ...child is imperfect, but when the child says, "This is spectacle," and if we ask the child, "How do you know?" "Father told me," then it is perfect. He received the knowledge from the father, that "This is spectacle," so although he is imperfect child, he speaks perfect. That is our method. That statement is not imperfect. We cannot be perfect. That's not possible. But if we receive knowledge from the perfect, then our knowledge is perfect. So all right.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Against party, they take it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. So they take that advantage, that's all, because so many people are trying to find out the defects here and there, just little bit, and they want to amplify if they find little.

Prabhupāda: So on the whole, our temple activities are going nice?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: There is no hindrance on account of this counter propaganda?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So far, I know only in Atlanta and Washington.

Prabhupāda: No, what is the position, Atlanta and Washington?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Atlanta also, they have difficulty. Balavanta told me just before I left that...

Prabhupāda: June.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This professor of mine, he was very much against at the beginning of the theory. Then, when I gave this lecture, he invited me for home, in his home, and his wife supported our theory, so he came around, saying that "Yes, science says earth is only 4.5 billion years old, and there are so many defects. So they have to accept that "No, we cannot be correct." So people are coming around slowly.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Kavirāja Gosvāmī says, śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra, vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra; (CC Adi 8.15) "Just see what kind of merciful is Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and if you consider it perfectly, you'll see it it wonderful." Vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra. "Oh, here is Caitanya." Caitanya. Caitanya means living force. He says, vicāra, "Just try to understand by logic, by philosophy, by argument." That is vicāra. We are not following Caitanya Mahāprabhu blindly. That is not our position. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna argued with Kṛṣṇa in so many ways. At last, he accepted, "Yes." Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitram: (BG 10.12) "You are the Supreme Person. The rascals, they do not understand Your personality, but Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Asita, Devala, they have accepted, and I also see. Therefore, whatever you say, I agree. That's all" This is experiment. Arjuna did not accept Kṛṣṇa blindly. He knew, but for our sake he gave so many arguments. At last, he accepted. We have to follow Arjuna. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare. (break)

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: You have to prove that, that "Where we are taking snake?" Analogy must be given when there is similarity. Where is? Are we taking the snake and dancing?

Ādi-keśava: No. We're not doing this.

Prabhupāda: Then why this analogy? This is defective analogy.

Ādi-keśava: It is their ignorance.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But you are rascal. You are bringing something which is not the fact. First of all find out the similarity; then you can say, "It is like that." Where is the similarity? This is false logic. Analogy means the points of similarity. Then you can make analogy. The moon is beautiful, and if one's face is very beautiful, you can say, "This face is as beautiful as the moon." But if it is ugly, black, then how you can make that "This face is as beautiful as the moon"? Where is the analogy?

Ādi-keśava: No analogy.

Prabhupāda: Analogy means points of similarity.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is for that purpose.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But when you sell jewelry, it's harder to remember Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And our... We are not so advanced yet.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the defect. Otherwise, if I am attracted, Hare Kṛṣṇa, for my livelihood I can do anything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anything, yes. I've seen in India, many of our members, they are able to do their pūjā in the morning with an undisturbed mind and then do business.

Prabhupāda: Yes. All Marwaris do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Be ruthless as anything.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are ruthless as anything during the day...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: But you go and it will... Go in the fire. This is the defect, that he is imperfect in every way and he claims to be God. That is the defect. The same way. I want to see who is my actual father. How you can see? You have to accept the mother. That's all. Veda. Veda is mother. Accept mother and Vedic information. Otherwise there is no possibility. Kṛṣṇa says. Then you don't believe Kṛṣṇa. Why you have taken to this? So many things are there. You should take it. Just like the soul. Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin: "There is." You take it. You cannot say Kṛṣṇa, "Show me." Then finished, you knowledge. Kṛṣṇa has given the reason. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam... (BG 2.13). You can see in that way, that because the soul is there the body is changing. As soon as soul is not there, stop. It is no more... That you have to... Nothing more. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. If you are dhīra, then there is no difficulty. But you are the rascal. This is the defect. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Yes, we can practically experience also; when there is driver the motorcar is moving. No driver—no movement. Where is the difficulty? But because you are rascal you do not know how to take things practically. What is the difference between a motorcar and this machine? It is also machine. Bhagavad-gītā says it is a machine. So machine may without a conductor, without the... A machine may be very useful, computer, but if there is no worker, what is the use of this machine? Simply alone machine can work? It may be very wonderful machine.

Evening Darsana -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: Na tv evāhaṁ jātu nāsam.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "You, Me, and all these kings, they were existing—the individual. You, Me, and... They're existing now, and they'll continue to exist." So where there is oneness? All individual eternally, as aṁśa, aṁśī, this finger and the body. You can say this finger is my body, but finger is not the body, whole body. Finger is finger. Not that if Kṛṣṇa's body is eternal, the finger is also eternal. Not that today it is finger, tomorrow is whole body. That is defective, Māyāvāda philosophy. Finger always exists as finger. Kṛṣṇa is eternal, His finger is eternal, but the finger and the body is the same material. They're not different. They become different when they come to material world without touch of Kṛṣṇa. This finger is finger even it is cut, but it is useless. When this finger is cut and fallen in the ground it will be said, "finger of Swamiji or somebody." It is not anything... But because it is cut from the whole, it has no value. One screw from this machine is the same screw. But when it is separate from this machine, it has no value. But when you want to add to it—you go to purchase that screw—it will cost you five rupees. But without this machine, nobody cares for that screw. So our position is like that.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So these things can be discussed. Of course, I could not read. Those who have pointed out the defects, so let them come and then discuss.

Rāmeśvara: No, if there's some defect, it must be corrected.

Prabhupāda: So... No...

Rāmeśvara: But if it can be done without...

Prabhupāda: Whatever is there... They have pointed out some defect, so in the presence of them you discuss. Then I shall give my decision.

Hari-śauri: That should be done in front of Your Divine Grace?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. So, Satsvarūpa, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa, you have said?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: He's also. He has also pointed out... So altogether. Pros and cons.

Rāmeśvara: One point that was felt, not the specific defect, but a very general point, is that this magazine is being distributed by the hundreds of thousands to very ordinary people who go shopping in stores, housewives and so on.

Prabhupāda: No, still, we cannot make it a shopkeeper's magazine.

Rāmeśvara: No, of course, but the tone of the magazine, we felt, should be such that they can also feel that it is...

Prabhupāda: They may not feel. That cannot be.

Rāmeśvara: That is their thing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gold must be presented as gold. One may not be able to purchase. You cannot... To sell, you cannot make, adulterate gold with iron.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Effect will be good. And if we do it properly it will be first class.

Rāmeśvara: Now, these scientists, they are studying Hare Kṛṣṇa meditation, but they're also studying some other processes which are not authorized. And they are...

Prabhupāda: That is the defect.

Rāmeśvara: And they're stating that in general, to meditate, to chant mantra, this is good, this is healthy for the mind.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. The thing is that some way or other, if you are near the fire, you'll get some heat, but there is a process how to take heat.

Rāmeśvara: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: That you cannot reject. "Because I am getting little heat, it is sufficient," that is sahajiyā.

Rāmeśvara: So we are trying to use their endorsements and then make it very specific that "Therefore to meditate using the Hare Kṛṣṇa, this is healthy." So why are you attacking us?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So this dehātma-buddhi, "I am this body," is very strong at the present. They think dehātma-buddhi, extended, is very good. And that I was speaking, that a person is taking care of his own body or own dress, but they say, "We shall not take care of my body but for others body also, my son's body, my grandson's body, my relative's body." So that means extending the activities of taking care of the dress. So that I said, that a washerman is taking care of many people's dress, but that does not mean that he is very elevated man. He is nothing but a washerman. But people are interested to take care of the dress. This body is described in the Bhagavad-gītā as dress. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). We are changing the dress. And so long we are interested with dress of the body, not of the body, so the person who has got this body will remain animal. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). So people are not prepared even to hear about this distinction, that "I am not this body; you are not this body." The modern civilization has trained up, educated people, in such a way that the more you think yourself, "I am this body—'I am American,' 'I am Indian,' 'I am brāhmaṇa,' 'I am this, I am that' "—and you feel and act like that and create trouble like that, then you are called civilized. Is it not? This is the defect of modern civilization. The more you keep yourself in the darkness of accepting this body as yourself-national feeling, social feeling, family feeling, community feeling-then... But we are speaking from a different platform. Our movement is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation -- February 27, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Alpa-vidyā bhayaṅkare.(?) This is the Western countries' deficiency. They learn little, and they consider that he has become very learned scholar. This is the defect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like a Professor Frog puffing up and then bursting.

Rādhā-vallabha: Nitāi burst.

Prabhupāda: Where he is now?

Rādhā-vallabha: I don't know. I heard that he was heading for America, then wanted to go back to India, some nonsense. I could find out if you want me to. (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He wrote Prabhupāda, "Your blessings..."

Rādhā-vallabha: I saw the letter.

Prabhupāda: "...to find out better guru."

Rādhā-vallabha: That's like trying to get blessings to find a light brighter than the sun.

Prabhupāda: Where is his wife?

Rādhā-vallabha: She left the movement some time ago.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: Resolved: Tuṣṭa Kṛṣṇa's group in New Zealand and Siddha-svarūpānanda Swami in Hawaii should pay the same price for BBT books as the temples in the ISKCON, not less, as they are paying now. It is well known that these groups preach actively against ISKCON. In response, although we should point out their philosophic defects, we should not directly confront them but remain aloof from...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In other words, no fighting with them.

Prabhupāda: This is to give them chance. They are chanting. Some way or other, keep them alive.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It should be recorded.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I didn't have my cassette with me.

Prabhupāda: You keep one assistant, to record you.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But I pointed out the mistakes, the defects that we have in scientific studies, and he thought very carefully and he agreed to the point.

Prabhupāda: Yes, any intelligent man should agree to the right point.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We knew what he was doing, but he didn't know what we were doing. That was the...

Prabhupāda: That is ignorance. Childish. A child does not know what he is doing. That is the difference between a child and elderly man. Yesterday there was sufficient crowd, I think.

Śrīdhara: There was nice crowd, all respectable men also. Tonight it will be bigger.

Gargamuni: Sunday is always the biggest.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I find Bombay people are a little bit more open-minded.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Bombay is the best city in India, undoubtedly. From the very beginning, and the richest city. The government revenue is collected from Bombay sixty-three percent. Bombay is so rich. Sixty-three percent from Bombay and thirty-seven percent from whole of India. That is the position.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore even little effort is giving great benefit. But we must know what that effort should be. Everything is there. We must take advantage of it. But we are not taking advantage. Now we have got good government, very nice. Now you should take advantage of the privileges which are there in India. The Bhagavad-gītā is there. If you take direction from Bhagavad-gītā, then you will get. The whole human society will be benefitted. That you do not know. That is the defect. Even big, big leaders, they profess to student of Bhagavad-gītā, but they do not know anything. Although it is clearly stated. Who is the leader in India who does not know Bhagavad-gītā? Even Morarji Desai, when he was to be arrested by leaders, government, he said "Wait, let me finish my reading of Bhagavad-gītā," is it not?

Mr. Rajda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: "Then you can harass me."

Mr. Rajda: And in jail also he was studying very minutely.

Prabhupāda: But now he says that "Janata is my God." Is it not, recently?

Indian (2): In the first paper like that. But then recently he said that point because it of Kṛṣṇa's grace.

Mr. Rajda: He'll swear to God. Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa. He is very clear in his mind.

Prabhupāda: Why not preach Kṛṣṇa, God? Why not with me...

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Whoever may be, but they could not do anything. Neither they can do. They do not know how to elevate them. We know that. We can help. And we are actually doing it. The idea is they are feeling frustration for want of leader. We are prepared to guide them. To the highest perfection of life. (pause) The defect was Gandhi started this harijana movement, keeping them where they are, and at the same time, changing by rubber-stamp, "harijana." That must be failure.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Unless you change the inner make-up of a man, he won't improve. They are thinking that by spending money, by giving a better home, by these things they'll improve. But we have practically seen in Madras on the beach, these harijanas were given some of the better houses, and they immediately did one of two things. Either they rented the house to someone else and kept living on the street, which is by their nature, or else they turned the house into the street.

Prabhupāda: Hell.

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Caste system should not be abolished, but it must be properly established. That is wanted. If you have got any defect in the eye, not that the eye should be plucked out. But it should be treated and brought into the normal condition. That is wanted. That we admit. You want to become brāhmaṇa without brahminical qualification. Not only you, everyone wants.

Bhakti-caru: You told Professor Kotovsky that this caste system is existing everywhere, in every society in the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. In the body there is caste system. The head is the brāhmaṇa, the hand is the kṣatriya, the belly is the vaiśya and the leg is the śūdra. Everything head, that will not help. There must be leg also. But it must be conducted under the guidance of the head. Then it is all right. If the head is not there and leg is utilized for jumping, that is monkey's business. The leg must work according to the dictation of the head. The hand must work according to the dictation of the head. "The caste system should be abolished." What is the caste system? There is no caste system. Everyone is śūdra. Who is a brāhmaṇa now, qualified, except one or two in our camp?

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That means the rascals, they do not see it, that godlessness, godless education will be like that. The teachers who are suggesting, they are themselves blind, and they are leading. They do not know what is the defect. You can write to them, that "You are leaders, you do not know what is the cause. This is the cause. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). Without God consciousness, there cannot be any education. There cannot be any good qualities. You do not know this. Simply you are crying in the wilderness. You yourself do not know. All the education, its propaganda is how to make the world godless, although the most scientific knowledge of God is there in the Bhagavad-gītā." Write him. Give him a slap, that "You do not know." Introduce our Kṛṣṇa consciousness books in the educational department. "Yato mata tato patha. Transcendental meditation. God has given you senses. Why you should not enjoy?" This is his...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Electronics complex for women entrepreneurs is being set up in Tamil Nadu."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said the object of the scheme was to attract women entrepreneurs by providing them special...

Prabhupāda: Entrepreneurs?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Business people.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That I say always. Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: We have already seen the defect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading:) "Baboons imported for FP vaccine trials. Twenty-five baboons have been specifically imported from Africa for crucial experiments with the birth control vaccine developed three years ago at the All-India Institute of Medical Sciences. The five male and twenty female baboons which came two months ago are kept in the institute's animal house for use in trials before the vaccine could be cleared for use on women." About anti-pregnancy vaccine. "The baboons will be used in the experiments to find out if the sterility induced by the vaccine is reversible and whether the baby baboons, born after such reversal, are normal both mentally and physically."

Prabhupāda: Abnormal. (laughs)

Room Conversation -- April 13, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: First of all hear. Then tomorrow they... Kṛṣṇa is helping. He'll help more, more. We are not going to be misled by their leadership.

Girirāja: No. They have nothing to say. Actually, the way you've trained us is very good, that you always present their arguments and then how to defeat them or what is the defect, so when we go out for preaching, we're not baffled by their arguments.

Prabhupāda: That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's policy. Let the rascal Sarvabhauma speak first of all. Let his talk be finished. Hear silently. And then reply. He'll hear.

Girirāja: I found, at least in the business community, there are many mūḍhas.

Prabhupāda: Mood? Ah, mūḍhas, yes.

Girirāja: Their philosophy is to work hard and die.

Prabhupāda: That hog philosophy, which is forbidden. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān (SB 5.5.1). Why? Why you should work so hard? That I said, that Daily Messenger, in the pandal, hanging...

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You can purchase, at most, sixty bighās. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. Then you get to... But what about the cheating going on, big cheating, international cheating about the space flights?

Prabhupāda: Everything is cheating because so long you are a conditioned soul, out of four defects, one of the defects is cheating propensity, kāraṇa pāṭava, er, vipralipsa.(?) That is a qualification. And in this material world, the more you are expert cheater, you are considered very able man. All over the world, so many expert cheaters are going on.

Devotee (4): Are these people consciously cheating or raised in cheating so that they don't know the difference?

Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but they are cheating. That is a fact. How we have learnt it, that is another thing. But you are cheating. That's fact.

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The same cheating. And he is not liberated because he continues cheating.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Frankly, though, we can see by Christianity that some defect is there. Either it's probably not there on the part of Jesus. He could have given them a way to purify themself, but they...

Prabhupāda: One chance, that "You have accepted me, I take your all sinful reactions." But these rascals continue.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His point was that "Now you must continue to follow my instructions."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise why ten commandments? And these rascals took it that "I shall not follow any of you. You take our sinful reaction. It is very good religion."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And therefore they say no one is more merciful than Jesus.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Dwivedi: It is nobody's religion, what little I know of the few religions, that to advise that "You must take a particular type of flesh and not the other type."

Prabhupāda: No, flesh you can take if you are carnivorous, but not this cow's flesh. That is particularly instructed in Bhagavad-gītā, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. Kṛṣṇa did not say that "You be non-meat-eater." That is not possible. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. Every living entity is living by eating another living entity. That is the laws of nature. But there are different types, so in the human society, if there are persons who want to eat flesh, so they can eat that nonimportant, small animal. But don't touch cow. That is Gītā's instruction. Go-rakṣya, He has particularly said. If you are so mean that you have to eat some flesh, there are hogs, dogs, and... And you can eat. But don't touch cow. Gandhi posed himself as a great student of Bhagavad-gītā, but he did not understand a single line. That is the defect. Gandhi took it, Bhagavad-gītā, as a childish play. Dangerous... Therefore country is ruined. You must take Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Then there is authority. You cannot change it. If you change it, where is the authority? Can you change the simple law, "Keep to the right; keep to the left"? No. It is authority. If the direction is "Keep to the right," you must keep to the right. You cannot say that "What is the wrong if I keep to the left?" Then there is no authority. So Gandhi, Tilak, and Aurobindo and so on, so on, they took Bhagavad-gītā as a childish play. Whatever they want, they interpret that. And Vivekananda supported, yato mata tato patha: "You can have your own opinion." These are all nonsense. Therefore country is ruined. You must take as it is. Then it will be... You cannot change the authority of Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya... (BG 18.44).

Morning Talk -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I am also going there for that. Otherwise...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think it's a real good challenge. I mean, I feel it's a nice challenge.

Prabhupāda: Now the... We can see practically how the system of civilization is bad, that this Indira Gandhi, rākṣasī, she became exalted in the topmost rank, and she thought... A person who is equally good or more than her, he was imprisoned. Then how the system is bad, that a rogue comes to the topmost post and a good man is put into the prison? Is not the system defective? Imperfect? Some way or other, you can become very important, and the actually important man you can cut down.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Envious system.

Prabhupāda: Animal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Animals are envious also.

Prabhupāda: Envious is everywhere. So the whole civilization is so defective. Somehow or other, you come to the power, and you do whatever you like, and the people in general will have to depend on such leaders for their welfare. How they can be happy? If the whole system is defective, how they can be happy? The same man, in one day he's very important, in the next day he's the most degraded. And the most degraded man, previously he was praised by millions of people and next day he's condemned. That means who elevated her to the post, they're all rascals.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Why one? Let him come. (Hindi) I think I speak in English. Otherwise they will not understand. The first thing is that "I am not this body." This is the first instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. And if you do not understand the first instruction, then where is the use of going ahead? This is the defect. Bhagavān said,

aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ

prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase

gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca

nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ

(BG 2.11)

"My dear Arjuna, you are lamenting for your family and bodily relationships. But this is not the subject matter for learned persons. And you are talking just like a learned man, 'What will happen if these, my brothers' wives become widows and this and that?' " That means in a gentlemanly way He said that "You are talking like a nonsense because you have no real subject matter." Agatāsūṁś ca. So far this body is concerned, either living or dead, it is a not a subject matter for learned talk. It is a lump of matter.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: So take the perfect knowledge. Follow it. You become perfect. Perfection means... That is also stated in Bhagavad-gītā. Real misery is that I am eternal... As God is eternal, I am also eternal. So now I am subjected to birth, death, old age, and disease, due to the physical body. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam: (BG 13.9) "You are trying to mitigate all kinds of sufferings. So why don't you see the real suffering is here, janma." How to stop this repetition of birth—that is your real problem. But they have made problems, so-called politics, philanthropy, altruism, humanitarianism, this, that, that, so many. But real problem remains, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. This is the defect. They won't take what is the problem, how to solve it. Everything is in oblivion, ignorance. What can be done? Although there is knowledge, there is light, there is practical example, they won't take it. What can be done? So we shall request you all, please don't waste your time in this way, that way, and ultimately come to the conclusion, zero. Take instruction of Bhagavad-gītā in all regards and be happy. It is not difficult. Practical examples are there. Before me, ten years before, whole world, foreigners, there was not a single Kṛṣṇa conscious. Whole history. Now you'll find thousands. Why? I have not manufactured (indistinct), giving them. I have given them Kṛṣṇa. That's all.

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Indian man (1): The entire credit goes to you, sir.

Prabhupāda: Yes. From historical reference it is so, but it can go still farther, and in that way India's glories will be magnified. But unfortunately our leaders and government are callous. They do not know what is India's glory and how India's glory can be distributed. They are trying that India's glory will be magnified by imitating Western way of life. This is the defect. They can understand that the Western way of life has not given them actual happiness. Otherwise why these boys, they are coming to India? They are young boys, and they are coming from very respectable family, rich family, rich nation. They have no economic problem. They have not come here to earn their livelihood, as we go to England to learn something, technology, and earn our livelihood. They have not come here for that purpose. They have enough food, enough everything, material. They are hankering after some spiritual... So there are two sides. (aside:) Why you are reducing? So our leaders, rather, they are misinterpreting śāstra, our leaders, and trying to mold it to the material way of life. This is the pity of the thing. Now you should reform them in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and real United Nations will be formed. There will be no question of nationalism. In the Bhagavad-gītā... Big, big leaders, they are reading Bhagavad-gītā, but is there any word as "nationalism"?

Evening Darsana -- May 12, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: No, secular state it was...

Indian man (4): Secularism means it's opposed to religion.

Devotee (2): Different parties, different government.

Prabhupāda: No, no. We have to study the Indian constitution. It is defective because by the same constitution our present Prime Minister was put into custody for nineteen months. And we are working on the same constitution. So the constitution itself is defective. Anything man-made will be defective.

Indian man (3): It will never be perfect.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I am insisting that "Take the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. You'll be perfect. Don't manufacture."

Indian man (5): You can't have that in authoritarianism. You get that in Delhi, where they feel that they are authority.

Prabhupāda: So become authority. That is... We said that. You become guru, authority. But you learn first of all as celā from the guru. And then you become guru. And without any learning, without any..., how become a guru? That is going on. Everyone is self-made guru. That has to be stopped.

Conversation with M.P., Shri Sita Ram Singh -- May 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Unfortunately nobody cares to hear.

Sita Ram Singh: That's right.

Prabhupāda: They have their own program. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Blind men leading blind men. You realize that your Constitution is defective?

Sita Ram Singh: Yes, of course.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of changing? The same instrument... So our proposal is that unless the limbs are perfect, the end cannot be perfect. So we are presenting, therefore, the limbs of Bhagavad-gītā, perfect, everything. But they are manufacturing their own way. There are so many parties, Ch.D., D.A.C., Ph.D....

Sita Ram Singh: All they have got a party for their own selfish end. Actually though I belong toward the party, but I must (indistinct). Because they have all got their own selfish aims.

Prabhupāda: They are interested to keep the new position of the party. Who is thinking of the public? Public is in the same distressed condition.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Everywhere. (pause) Among yourselves, there is no strong man. That is the defect. All like child. That is the defect. And it requires a very strong man. That is lacking. In every minute details I have poked my nose. Anyone, whatever you have got, sit down and select trustees, and the format is there. Make a trustee. So...? (break) ...should be so many copies. Every one of you GBC and important men must have that copies.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll distribute copies today.

Prabhupāda: Among few, Rāmeśvara will be printed in(?). Anyway, do your best. Otherwise there is a very big undercurrent. They are looking for the opportunity. (pause) They want some money first.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So he's going to go to Allahabad after two weeks. (pause)

Prabhupāda: No, don't waste time, a single moment. Very cautiously, intelligently work. (break) Mr. Sharma in Calcutta, I was guest in his house for some time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Veni Shankar Sharma.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Hm.

Discussions with Devotees and Conversation with Dr. Ghosh -- June 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is natural. Causing everyone else means the same group. Andhā yathāndhaiḥ. One who is blind, he can be cheated by another blind man. But one who is not blind, if the blind man wants to cheat him, that "I can help you crossing the room," he will laugh, that "This rascal is blind, and he has offered me to help me. We take this, that if a person is... We know that he is defective. His knowledge is imperfect. What knowledge he will give? Immediately reject him.

Harikeśa: He can give good knowledge on how to accelerate death.

Prabhupāda: That is natural. There is no question of his accelerating. It is already going on in this world. (pause) So many things we have to discuss. Is it not? People are in darkness in so many ways. Therefore we have to take the standard knowledge.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Always comes to the...

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Little cold water. And our mission is to deliver them by giving knowledge. Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Our mission is not to keep men in darkness. Otherwise "Let them go to hell, śūnyavādi. We don't..." No. They should not remain in that way. They should come to the real light. This is our policy.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So you do not... You live. You go along with him. You'll see. Change means that... That is their defect. The change... Change means you have to accept any change. You see or not see. Tathā dehāntaram. Deha, the body, will change. You have got eight millions bodies. It can change to any one. There is no question of seeing. The suggestion is that you have to change. Now, in which body you are going to change, that you cannot see. So how you claim that "I cannot see"? That you cannot... There will be change. So how the change will take? Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1), by superior administration and by your karma.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Subtle law.

Prabhupāda: Subtle law.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Beyond physical laws.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, physical law. Just like worm will change into butterfly. You can see.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Science accepts that all the cells in human body changes completely in seven years.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is required. But it will be a failure unless they are taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That... Gandhi's failure was there. He did not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because the material civilization means pravṛtti-mārga, and spiritual civilization nivṛtti-mārga. Pravṛttir eṣā bhūtānāṁ nivṛttis tu mahā-phalām. So pravṛtti... Suppose he is in the village. He has to work with plow. And in the city, Goodyear Tire Company offering him twenty rupees per day. So he'll see that "What is the use of working with this plow? Let me go to Goodyear Tire." Then here the business will be finished. That is the position of India. So much land is lying vacant because there is no worker, and all the rascals have gone to New Delhi or big cities. And overpopulation? "Give them sterilization." Here there is no men to work and they're sterilization... How the leaders... And who is leader? Another debauch number one, Gandhi, Mrs.... And she has produced a Sanjay Gandhi. Very precarious si... So there will be no scarcity of simple living and eating. We shall give nice food, milk, and place. So bring student and teach them. Then gradually increase. They will preach throughout the whole world. The defect of the society, modern—the rascals are worshiped. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has given all in his moral instructions. He said, mūrkhā yatra na pūjyante: "Where rascals are not worshiped..." But at the present moment rascals are worshiped. And he says. He was experienced politician.

Gurukula Inspection -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So that I am seeing, how to... That was the problem. They said, "What will be the benefit, satyavādī?" Satya śamo damo titikṣa, jñāna... (Hindi) So culture is lost. That is the difficulty.

Indian man (4): The other day two parents have come, and they have said, "We will give our two boys and let them be first class, for the school here."

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) That is... (Hindi) This is the defect of modern civilization. And Kṛṣṇa wants to impress in the beginning, na jāyate na mriyate vā. (Hindi) Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). (Hindi) This darkness is going on. People are kept in darkness in the name of so-called university education. This is... (Hindi) It will be successful. It may take time. That's all.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) ...this manager, that manager. But who to manage? Bring that first. (Hindi) In Bengali there is a superstition that "Don't keep your head towards the northern side." So the man said, "I have no head. Where is the question of keeping northern side or southern side?" So you are contemplating all management. First of all bring whom to manage. Simply office manager, this, that and... Bambhārambhe laghu-kriyā. (Hindi) All right.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What is that issue?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, you've explained, if it's a lotus petal, then you can fly around it. That's all right. Then the answer is there. But if there's no lotus petal and it's simply flat, then it's a problem. That a problem.

Prabhupāda: No, we don't say flat.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We've pictured it like that. There's some defect in our picture. If you recall, there's a picture we drew...

Prabhupāda: So rectify it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, well how?

Prabhupāda: That is the explanation. Petal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See it doesn't say petal anywhere in the Bhāgavatam. It doesn't say Bhārata-varṣa is a lotus petal.

Upendra: Neither does it say it's flat, though.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well I can get the Bhāgavatam right now if you allow me to. It doesn't say... I believe it says Jambūdvīpa is the second part of the lotus, and there aren't petals in the center.

Upendra: It's a transcendental lotus flower.

Prabhupāda: You are prejudiced. That's all. If I can understand, why don't you understand? You are prejudiced.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Bhāgavatam, one portion may not be exactly like... Just like if you are in the midst of the petal, you cannot understand it is petal. You see it is flat. You have shown in the map, there is a point so many miles. So that petal, middle portion, you can take it flat. It is not flat. It is curved. Whatever conception you make, that is defective. Rascals. First of all you have to understand this. So don't make it like this, like this, like this, like... Whatever it is said, that is all right. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said aśraddadhānāḥ. No faith. Faithless. We have challenged, by chemical combination make a small egg, sparrow's egg, and produce.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They can't do anything.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the value of your experiment? And still they are saying. This one point will kill them. Why do they not take this challenge? Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're rascals. There's no other answer. Only a rascal will go on maintaining that we can create life and they never have.

Prabhupāda: And they are getting Nobel Prize. Just see. Such rascals. And we say on the authority of Bhagavad-gītā, apareyam. This is inferior and that is superior. So how you can make superior with inferior ingredients?

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Your atomic energy, what benefit has done to the people?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A real rākṣasa. Here's Haṁsadūta's reply to him. "Reply to Dr. Kovoor's article: Before going into the main body of my article, which I..., a transcript of a lecture I delivered at Sarasvatī Hall on July 29th before an audience of approximately one thousand respectable gentry of Colombo, and where Dr. Kovoor also happened to be present and was subsequently challenged but failed to defend his position that life is generated by chance chemical combination, I would briefly like to point out the apparent defects in his article. It is not beyond Kovoor's power of observation. First of all, it should be pointed out that Dr. Kovoor has done exactly what I predicted he would do in my last article, namely swamp the reader with a deluge of word jugglery in order to avoid the main point in question, which is, If life is generated by chance biochemical combination, as the scientists claim, then if given the said chemicals, can the scientist Kovoor make the chemicals come to life? Instead of answering this point, he has cleverly written that 'Scientists have created over ten elements, such a fermium, plutonium, serium, einsteinium, etc.' But elements are a far cry from living beings. He says that Dr. Cyril Pannamperuma and Dr. Bal Gobind Khorana, Nobel Prize-winners..." Incidentally, this Mr. Nobel was the inventor of dynamite, and he is giving Peace Prizes. Absurd to say the least. He's famous for inventing dynamite and he's giving the Peace Prize. As you said, drunkards. He says, "Those Nobel Prize-winners have synthesized the building blocks of living protoplasm. So if this is a fact, then why Dr. Kovoor has not met the challenge and created life with the said building blocks of amino acids? My challenge still stands: Create life from chemicals. As for incubating a baby in a test tube..." (break) "...required to produce that baby in the test tube cannot be created by the so-called scientists. So what is their credit if they produce a baby in a test tube? God is already producing millions of babies daily in nature's test tube, the womb of a woman. Kovoor's statement that scientists are objective thinkers and base their thoughts on empirical knowledge only, goes to prove my point that the soul lies beyond the jurisdiction of the limited senses of the scientists, and therefore a completely different process of approach has to be adopted."

Prabhupāda: So Haṁsadūta has become famous now.

Visit From Allopathic Doctor -- October 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He was rotting here, typewriting. I said, "You go." I had ten servants. You feel.(?) They are heavy.(?) He thought that I am degrading him. No. Now you understand?

Harikeśa: Yes, I understand, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So here is a intelligent boy. Why he should rot here, typewriting? (break) Whatever deficiency are there, that is excused by Guru Mahārāja. Go on printing, go on printing. Deficiency will be corrected, next, next, next. I printed Bhāgavata in that way, many defects. "All right. Whatever is printed, that's all." But these are first class. There is no defect. German printing is very pure. They have got the first-class machine. So we have got so many centers. Wherever cheaper and better printing can be gotten, we may take from there. That's all right. Thank you.

Harikeśa: (choked voice) Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Jayatīrtha: Bhaktivedanta Book Trust ki jaya.

Devotees: Śrīla Prabhupāda ki jaya.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhagatji: This is blood urea to be tested. The other doctor, one of the best doctors, he said that blood urea should be tested because there is pus, and this blood will be defect. And the aluminium also, Prabhupāda... Charvery(?) is also passing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Charvey?(?)

Bhagatji: Two, three.

Kīrtanānanda: What does he need to do this test? More urine?

Bhagatji: He will take some blood.

Prabhupāda: But that is the difficulty.

Hari-śauri: Yes. No blood. Prabhupāda doesn't want a blood test.

Prabhupāda: Let me taste the tablet. (break) (Bengali) (break) Go on, kīrtana. (break) What news?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The guests will start coming tomorrow. Mr. Prem Kripal, who is the ex-president of the executive board, UNESCO, he's going to be our chief guest tomorrow. He's going to inaugurate the conference. He'll be arriving about five o'clock this evening. He told me he's coming with one of his friends who's also a retired architect.

Room Conversation With Svarupa Damodara -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But the defect is that here the head manager does not know English.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Well, this man, we'll have a little bit more freedom to act. Generally they're going to now rectify all of their mistakes. They feel very sorry. The senior people in the bank feel very sorry for the way in which business has been dealt with towards us, and they're going to transfer... The receipts have already been transferred. We're just finishing up all the formalities. Girirāja was right. The thing which he wanted to do now has been done. It's... The head men in Punjab Bank had no idea of how we were being dealt with locally. And when they were informed, they became very much desirous of rectifying everything, because they feel that we're a very worthy accountant holders with them, and they don't want anything to jeopardize. And we told them, "We have every intention of expanding our facilities here. Simply we want to be dealt with in a proper, normal way." So I think I should return there to finish the discussions. Everything was quite in order, though. It's nothing to worry about.

Prabhupāda: And the manager is not there?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, everybody's there.

Prabhupāda: Gupta.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhakti-caru: He says that nothing will happen. He's saying that the main thing... He found out the main defect in the body. He's saying that if anything is wrong, then we can ring him up and he'll come immediately.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Indian man (1): Next time, when he comes, make arrangement to stay for a long time.

Bhakti-caru: Say, at least about a week, so that he can stay here for about a week. This time he came absolutely unprepared.

Prabhupāda: Turn me this way.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What about the gate?

Akṣayānanda: That's going on. Construction is going on. Saurabha Mahārāja came yesterday, and he has given that idea. He had some objection before. He's clarified that objection. It was an architectural point, just for the beauty. So he's clarified that with the engineer, and it's going on now. I haven't had time, Prabhupāda, to talk to the members—some of the members are still remaining-about their conference, because I had to go for this work. But I'll go now and meet some of these gentlemen, get some idea what is their aims and objectives and resolutions. Otherwise, unfortunately, I could not be present there. But I'll give you a report.

Prabhupāda: Their aims and object is superficially good, that "We altogether preach." But they do not know the ways. That is their defect. Neither they'll take up as it is. So it will be failure.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is already failure.

Akṣayānanda: It is failure.