Defect (Conv. 1968 - 1974)

Expressions researched:
"defect" |"defection" |"defective" |"defectless" |"defectness" |"defects"

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That means people do not know what is God. Suppose if I come to you, if I say I am President Johnson, will you accept me?

Journalist: No (laughing) I don't think I would.

Prabhupāda: But these people, rascals, will accept him as God because they do not know what is God. That is the defect. We know what is God, therefore we cannot accept any rascal declaring that he's God. That is the difference.

Journalist: Well it's just absolutely absurd that somebody comes out and tells you he's God.

Prabhupāda: But how much rascal he is who accepts him as God. He's rascal number one. He is a cheater and the man who is cheated he is also another rascal. He does not know what is God. Anybody comes as God, as God has become so cheap it can be available in the market, everywhere.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation Before Lecture -- April 29, 1969, Brandeis University, Boston:

Prabhupāda: They have no leader. Now, if they come to us seriously, they get the right thing. But that is also their defect. When we propose, "Come and take this Kṛṣṇa," they don't want. They want that marijuana.

Candanācārya: Prabhupāda, my mother had the idea of going to rich parents who are very anxious about their children who've become hippies and saying that this movement...

Prabhupāda: So you should write article that "We are not hippies, but we are converting hippies to the sane condition. So father, mothers, who are anxious for their children, let them send their children to us. We take care." In this way you make impression in the public mind.

Candanācārya: And also they make donations.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So our New Vrindaban scheme is there. Let them help and send their children. We make just opposite number of hippies. Yes.

Miss Rose: Swamiji, but that has to advertised in papers...

Prabhupāda: So why don't you do it? This is a service. You can do it.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Simply you have to understand that there is nothing material, everything is spiritual. That is required. So long you do not understand that everything is spiritual only, that is our defect.

Allen Ginsberg: Well, then even sexuality is spiritual?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is said in the Bhagavad-gītā: if you use sexuality for giving birth to nice child, not cats and dogs, that is spiritual. But people are using sexuality for other purposes. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, śāstra-viruddho(?), according to religious ritualistic way, if one, when one uses sex life that is (indistinct). That is, therefore in the, according to Vedic system, therefore, having sex life with wife, there is a great ceremony which is called garbhādhāna ceremony, and all the higher caste, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriyas, śūdra, er vaiśyas especially, they are to observe ten kinds of reformative process. The first process is while giving birth to a child there is a great ceremony, garbhādhāna. So it is not a secret. To beget nice child, then there will be nice population, then there will be peace and prosperity. If you beget cats and dogs, how can you expect peace and prosperity? Living in the same dog society, cat society then there will be peace? No.

Allen Ginsberg: I would rather dogs and cats being Kṛṣṇa's though.

Discussion with BTG Staff -- December 24, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: That is all right. That is translation. That is all right.

Brahmānanda: That is the one which is in use, I believe. It's not anything, you know...

Prabhupāda: That is simply translation. But Caitanya-caritāmṛta is now presented in our TLC. Actually that is our conclusion. And Navina Rāya's translation, there are sometimes little defects, but not very dangerous, not very dangerous.

Hayagrīva: Should your... In the content, should we put in... How many articles can we put in by you? These are the most important contributions we have, and, say, would it be too much material to put in, say, an essay by you and maybe a lecture or...

Prabhupāda: Or whatever it may be. That any article may not be more than two, three pages, printed. That will be nice. And if the number of articles are more, how many pages we are going to print?

Hayagrīva: We're going to print more pages, aren't we?

Brahmānanda: Well, there's some discuss... If we print it on our own press we can print it, we could add eight more pages, which would make it forty pages. But we may continue with Dai Nippon in Japan. So I don't know if we'll increase the pages.

Prabhupāda: So by increasing the pages, what do we immediately get profit? Is there any special advantage we get?

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Vivekananda has influence here in higher class, among the educated class. They talk about Vivekananda and this and that, nonsense. In your country, fortunately, that opposition was not there. There was no influence of Vivekananda class men. Here amongst the educated class there is influence of all these rascals, Vivekananda, Aurobindo, and... That is one defect. But in the mass there is no influence. In the class, educated class. Because educated class means wine, women, meat, and Vivekananda allows this. That is the point. Vivekananda has no distinction of eating. "Eat any... All Brahman, all Nārāyaṇa. You are Nārāyaṇa. Goat is Nārāyaṇa. So Nārāyaṇa is going in the belly of Nārāyaṇa. What is the wrong? One Nārāyaṇa is going, being absorbed by another Nārāyaṇa." But he is not agreeable to be eaten by a tiger, another tiger Nārāyaṇa.

Haṁsadūta: They actually say that?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1971, Gorakhpur:

Prabhupāda: The sense of form. Because your brain is congested with impersonalism, you cannot understand what is spiritual form. That is your defect.

Guest: That is the trouble.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi) All hodgepodge things should be...

Guest: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore... (Hindi) What is this intellect? It is ignorance. This is not intellect. It is ignorance. You are accepting something wrong. That is ignorance. Ignorance is jñānavān. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). That is knowledge. This is ignorance. He does not know Kṛṣṇa. And one who does not know Kṛṣṇa, he has no value of his knowledge. Bhāgavata says, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ (SB 7.5.31). Knowledge, what is the target of knowledge? To go up to Viṣṇu, to understand. Tad viṣṇuṁ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti surayaḥ. Those who are actually intelligent, they are simply observing the Viṣṇu form. This is Vedic mantra. So unless you reach to that point, your knowledge has no value. It is ignorance. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yogamāyā-samāvṛtaḥ (BG 7.25). So long you do not understand Kṛṣṇa, that means your knowledge is covered still.

Television Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Rules and regulations must be established on philosophy. Otherwise it is sentiment, defective. Religion without philosophy is sentiment, and philosophy without religion is mental speculation. They should be combined, philosophy and religion. Then it will be perfect.

Interviewer: I think that in this part of the world, in the Western world, at least, as much as I am aware of it, we do place a good deal of emphasis on religion and...

Prabhupāda: Based on philosophy.

Interviewer: Well, on religion... What I would like to highlight, what I would like to emphasize is that we place a good deal of emphasis on religion in the ways it gets one man to deal with another man. The ethic of religion. Now...

Prabhupāda: No. Our point is not that.

Interviewer: In the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Our... We must clear. We are not concerned how one man deals with another man. Our point...

Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Prabhupāda: Yes. The rules and regulations must be established on philosophy. Otherwise, it is sentiment, defective. Religion without philosophy is sentiment. And philosophy without religion is mental speculation. They should be combined, philosophy and religion. Then it will be perfect.

Interviewer: I think that in this, in this part of the world, in the Western world, at least as much as I am aware of it, we do place a good deal of emphasis on religion and...

Prabhupāda: Based on philosophy.

Interviewer: Well, on religion, what I would like to highlight, what I would like to emphasize is that we place a good deal of emphasis on the religion in the ways it gets one man to deal with another man. The ethic of religion. Now, in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement...

Prabhupāda: One moment. We must clear.

Interviewer: Beg your pardon?

Prabhupāda: We are not concerned how one man deal with another man.

Interviewer: Not as part of your Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement?

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: No, I don't reject. The thing is that perfect knowledge is received from the authority which… beyond the material defects.

Dr. Weir: No, what I mean is, fear is not necessary for learning from an authoritarian source.

Prabhupāda: No, authority must be perfect. Then otherwise the knowledge is not perfect.

Śyāmasundara: He's saying that you don't need to necessarily have to fear the authority before you accept him.

Prabhupāda: There's no question of fearing. There's no question of fearing.

Dr. Weir: That's what I thought. You don't acce... That doesn't come in at all.

Prabhupāda: No. No. It is out of love, out of affection, the reciprocation.

Dr. Weir: Well, that's what I think very often, that it is fear that prevents people from accepting.

Prabhupāda: No. No.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 1.5.11 -- January 19, 1972, Jaipur:

Prabhupāda: These people or this revolution is meant for killing the sinful resultant actions of the people. This revolution. Janatā agha, agha means resultant action of sinful life. Janatā agha viplavaḥ. Viplavaḥ means revolution, this very word is used. Tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo yasmin prati-ślokam abaddhavaty api (SB 1.5.11). Such revolutionary literature, even they are not properly composed. Yasmin prati-ślokam abaddham. Not according to the grammatical rules and other rhetorical rules, but the, I mean to say, thoughts and the effects of such revolutionary literature is required. Not the grammatical. The so-called rascals, they are concerned with the grammatical. But those who are actually worker, they are concerned with the thoughts. What is the thought is there? Therefore, it is said that tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo yasmin prati-ślokam abaddhavaty api, nāmāny anantasya yaśo 'nkitāni yat (SB 1.5.11). If there is simply the attempt is there how to glorify the Supreme Lord, that is a fact. It doesn't matter whether it is written in correct language or incorrect language, it doesn't matter. If the whole thought is targeted to glorify the Supreme Lord, then nāmāny anantasya yaśo 'nkitāni yat gṛṇanti gāyanti śṛṇvanti sādhavaḥ. Then those who are actually sādhu, even in spite of all these defects, because the only attempt is to glorify the Lord, then those who are sādhu, those who are devotee, they hear it. Śṛṇvanti gāyanti gṛṇanti. Not only hear, they chant also the same thing. And not only chant, but gṛṇanti, they apply in their actual life.

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 1.5.11 -- January 19, 1972, Jaipur:

Because he has taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, gradually those things, those defects will be corrected. kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā śaśvac-chāntiṁ nigacchati, he will become very soon a great religious soul because he has taken to Kṛṣṇa. So in the beginning if there is some defect, we should not consider that. We have to see how much his love for Kṛṣṇa has increased, that is the test. Not the formalities. That is the test, how much he has sacrificed for Kṛṣṇa, how much he is prepared to sacrifice for Kṛṣṇa. If one takes Kṛṣṇa for making business, that is different thing, that is not devotion. Śālagrāma, my Guru Maharaja used to say śālagrām bir badam hoy (?). Just like you have seen śālagrāma. So if somebody takes that and breaks peanuts, so there is no devotion. It is a show during, attracting the visitors, it is nicely decorated, but in their absence, take it and you will have stone. So all this mostly the temple show is going on like that. They have made it a show of business. The devotees will come and pay something and I may have devotion or not devotion, it doesn't matter. One should be baccha bankaram suci (?), inside and outside perfect.

Room Conversation -- February 12, 1972, Madras:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: The defects are here that way which you will confirm, I have no doubt. But the question which I put to Girirāja was whether it would not have been better if you work from inside rather than make yourself a separate cult and organization. Separate organization, once you form, becomes like a person who is born. It gets his attachment, his ego, his everything. So the separate organization, like Mr. Banu, becomes an ego. He is fond of his own attachments, of his own interest, and so the organization must be looked after. The organization should succeed. The organization should succeed better than other organizations. There is (indistinct) among organizations. So all the egotistic weaknesses apply to organizations also. Therefore I was wondering whether it would not, if you had convinced that your mission was to spread the Gītā Ācārya's teachings as to how to act with detachment and with faith in the grace of God, where you go wrong, could not be having better done without making yourself separate.

Prabhupāda: No. The thing is, when there is detachment, there must be another attachment.

Guest: Yes. To God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But that is required.

Conversation with the GBC -- May 25, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Authorized. That people will refer to our books. So we have to very cautiously print our literatures. It is not ordinary literature, fiction, or something, story. Just like Bhagavad-gītā and Bhāgavata. They are not ordinary. literature. Without any four defects of human frailties. Bhrama, pramāda, vipralipsa, also... We are following those literatures. So our writing should be so authorized that in future one may not find any fault, contradiction. We shall have to, cautiously. The ideas are given there now... In future of course, it requires that we shall increase (indistinct). But for the present, we have to push on this movement with positive, I mean to say, conviction, that here is God. God is neither dead, nor every one of you is God, nor is He imperson. God is a person and we give you His name, address, father's name, activities. Here is God. So, we have to (indistinct). So if you have got any doubt about it, then you cannot do it. If you have got any doubt that whether Kṛṣṇa is positive God or (indistinct) then you cannot do it. That is the first qualification. If you are yourself not convinced, how you can convince others? This is our propaganda. This is our mission. (indistinct). Whether you are all convinced on this point? That here is positive God. What is your opinion? So far I am concerned, I have no opinion, convinced. (laughter). Therefore, I am pushing on. It is a fact. I am pushing on because I am pushing on fact, not fiction. That much I am personally convinced. Whenever there is somebody says, "You believe". "No, I don't believe, it is fact." Any press reporter, that press reporter.

Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is the defect of modern education.

John Fahey: Well, they go to college, and so this is where the idea started. It got bigger and bigger and bigger, and now it's out of control. (laughs) It's terrible. It's all-pervasive. (indistinct) I don't kill animals.

Devotee: Vegetarian?

John Fahey: Now, yeah.

Devotee: He's vegetarian.

Prabhupāda: Well vegetarians are not animals. (laughter) In India, you'll still you'll find ninety-percent of the population, they're vegetarians, strictly. Always vegetarians. They're quite healthy, they're working. Therefore vegetarians are human beings. Vegetables, that food is meant for human beings. That is natural. For a human being to become nonvegetarian is unnatural. And to become vegetarian, that is natural. Just like our teeth, it is meant for cutting vegetables, fruit, not meat. You will find cutting by these teeth, meat, it will be difficult. But you take any vegetable, any fruit, you can immediately cut. Our medical laws says that anything eatable which you cannot cut with the teeth and smash it properly, it will not be digested. So fruits and vegetables you can properly cut even raw, not to speak of cooked. Raw vegetables and raw fruits, you can cut with these teeth and smash it and you swallow, it will be nicely digested.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: That's right. That discussion only. Students of philosophy, theology, what is their idea of God, what they are thinking, what is their defect, we can talk. Ordinary men you can (indistinct) try to avoid. If they want some question, you can ask.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. Jaya.

Devotee (5): Śrīla Prabhupāda? I am one of the teachers in the gurukula...

Prabhupāda: Ahh.

Devotee (5): ...and one of the boys, Ekendra, his mother, Kalindi, she wants to take him away from the school.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (5): She wants to take him away from the school. So she's leaving it up to you, to your decision, as to whether the boy goes with her or stays in the gurukula school. He's progressing very nicely at gurukula. The school is just starting. He's very intelligent boy.

Prabhupāda: So why he is taking? Why she is taking?

Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: That is defective.

Guest (1): The problem, of course, is that you don't want man to somehow get lost in it all, but still I, yeah, where I am, I think that you would say..., to agree with what you say...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): ...the universalism of it's very appealing.

Prabhupāda: No, we are not manufacturing this idea. That it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ: (BG 14.4) in every species of life, whatever forms are there. And besides that, we take this body as dress. Just like your white shirt is not you. You are different from the white shirt. Similarly, one may have a body white or black, but he, as spirit soul, is different from the body. We are taking account of the person who is possessing the dress—not the dress, but the person. Just like I am talking with you, I am not talking with your shirt. I don't look to your shirt, whether you have put on a white shirt or black shirt. That is not my concern. I am concerned with you as a living being. This is our philosophy. We don't take account of the outward shirt and coat. This body, this gross body is just like coat, and within this gross body there is subtle body—mind, intelligence and ego. Within the subtle body, the spirit soul is there, and we are trying to deliver the spirit soul from these two kinds of entanglement, subtle and gross. That is our aim. The national movement or religious movement, that is more or less on the basis of the outward dress. One is Christian because he is born by a Christian father. Is it not? One is American because he is born on the land of America.

Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: He must have some particular qualities or conditions fulfilled, then he will be accepted as citizen or immigrant. Similarly, if we want to go back to home, back to Godhead, then we must develop our dormant spiritual qualities, and that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is the training period for going back to home, back to Godhead. So that after giving up this body or after this time's death, others who are dying they do not know what next life they are getting. They, although they are proud of education, but they do not discuss what is the constitutional position of the soul, how he is transferring from one body to another, how it is to be done. This science is unknown to the modern education. Is it not? They do not know. They simply speculate. That is the defect of modern educational system, and actually everyone is seeking for spiritual emancipation. Therefore in your country, in spite of so many big, big universities, you are producing hippies, hopeless population. Am I saying right or not? Your are university teacher. I have seen in so many universities.

Guest (1): I like my students.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest (1): I like my students. I think they're on the right track.

Prabhupāda: No! You like your students; I like your students more, because I do not wish to see them in such frustrated condition. That is my mission. I want to make them happy. So I want to give them this information of Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that they may get back life. I have received thousands of letters, those who have come to this life from frustration how they are feeling obliged. (end)

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Not Kali-yuga. This is the symptom of conditioned soul. It is very prominent now in this age. Conditioned soul means these four defects—to commit mistake, to become illusioned, to cheat others, and imperfectness of the senses. The scientists say that we do not know, that means imperfectness of sense. I am trying to see but the cloud is checking me, and I am considering beyond this cloud there is nothing. That is imperfectness of my seeing. Not... It is not a fact that beyond the cloud there is nothing. So these things are going on—cheating, illusion, mistake, and imperfect. And they are trying to come to a right conclusion. Just like somebody was telling that there is going to be a big conference of the Catholics to consider what wrong they have done. They can see that the people are rejecting the so-called Christian religion. So now they are thinking (indistinct). But it is also another cheating. They are deliberately violating the principles of Christian religion, and still they say, "What we have done?"

Devotee (2): The theme was "Where did we go wrong?"

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee (2): The theme was "Where did we go wrong?"

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: It is a fact. Just like this child is transmigrating from one body, one kind of body to another body. So in the same way, when I give up this body I transmigrate to another body. This is the science. Unfortunately, there is no university, no education, no culture of this great science. Therefore according to Bhāgavatam, the knowledge is imperfect. The knowledge which are imparting from universities, they are not perfect knowledge. And this human form of body is the opportunity to understand the position of the soul and how he is transmigrating from one body to another, what is happening next. In this way, in this human form of body, we can understand this science, science of soul. Unfortunately, no education is there to understand this science. So in other words, it may be taken that the modern civilization is killing the prerogative of the human being. He has got a chance to understand himself and to stop. He can stop this repetition of birth and death. He can remain in a spiritual form in the spiritual kingdom or with God, but these things are unknown to him, because there is no discussion in any university or any institution of knowledge. Although the Vedic literature gives us ample information of this—in the the Bhagavad-gītā, that is the preliminary study of all Vedic literature—but there is no chance for the people to understand. This is the defect of the modern civilization.

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: So there is some defect, and here is a chance to rectify that defect. Here is a chance. I can argue with any scientist, any philosopher, that this is the only remedy to save people from frustration. This is the only remedy. Why it should go unnoticed by your country, such a great, who are willing to help others, willing to help. You started the United Nations in your country for that. Let us do something tangible, scientific, that people will be happy.

Ambassador: Oh, I think the, what this young man says is very encouraging, that some of this is now being slowly inculcated in our colleges and universities.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: Of all the movements, religious movements from India that have gone there, this one has shown the most potency of all, by far...

Ambassador: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: There's been nothing like this movement ever before in the United States or in the world. And its potency proves the philosophy. If something is potent it automatically grows.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They must be the same. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣad bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Religion means the course, or the laws given by God. Just like law means the law given by the state. I cannot manufacture law. The citizen cannot manufacture law. The law is manufactured by the legislative assembly of the government. Similarly, religion means the order given by God. Now we have to understand who is God, and what is His order, and how it is applicable to everyone. That is the system of religion. We cannot whimsically give some rituals as religion. The principle of religion is to obey the orders of God. Therefore the first principle is to know who is God. Unless I know what is God, then how I can know what is His order? So in the Bhagavad-gītā, the religion is given that—(Aside:) you are feeling sleepy, you can go—the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That is religion. We have manufactured so many types of religion, and here God says that "You give up your manufactured religion. You just surrender unto Me." This is religion. Religion means to surrender. A good citizen means to surrender to the government law. Similarly, a religious person means who has surrendered to God. Nowadays it has become a regrettable fashion that everyone is God, when we surrender to one. And this false prestige that "I am God. I haven't got to surrender to anyone. I am God. What surrender?" This atheism is going on and spoiling the whole human society. God has become so cheap. Any nonsense can claim, "I am God." That is the defect of the modern society. There is a great necessity to understand God. If everyone is God then where is the necessity of religion? If everyone is president then where is the necessity of lawmaking? So this is going on. This is very unfortunate situation. What is your idea?

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: That is the defect. Lord is the master of material nature, and we are conditioned by the material nature and still we are claiming, "I am God." Then?

Devotee: "Unless one understands these bare facts it is not possible to achieve peace in the world, either individually or collectively. This is the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The Lord Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Predominator and all living entities, including the great demigods, are His subordinates. One can attain perfect peace only in complete Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the Fifth Chapter is the practical explanation of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, generally known as karma-yoga. The question of mental speculation as to how karma-yoga can bring liberation is answered herewith. To work in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is to work with the complete knowledge that the Lord is the predominator. Such work is not different from transcendental knowledge. Direct Kṛṣṇa consciousness is bhakti-yoga. and jñāna-yoga is the path leading to bhakti-yoga. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to work in full knowledge of one's relationship with the Supreme Absolute and the perfection of this consciousness is full knowledge of Kṛṣṇa or Supreme Personality of Godhead. A pure soul is the eternal servant of God as His fragmental part and parcel. He comes into contact with māyā, illusion, due to the desire to lord it over māyā.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But... Thing is that they are studying the laws very nicely. That's good. But they should appreciate that who has made this law? That is their defect. They are studying how the laws of nature is working. That's nice. But they should appreciate at the same time: Who made such subtle laws that they are working so nicely? That is our philosophy. We do not only study the laws and appreciate it, but we study the law-maker also. That is the difference between ourself and the so-called scientists. They are left, poor fund of knowledge. They cannot appreciate that there is a law-maker of these subtle laws. That is their defect. That is called poor fund of knowledge. And as soon as we accept law-maker, we have to accept that He's a person, He has got brain. Therefore He can make laws. Just like the great ocean is working, but there is a law. It cannot come here. Although there is potency. At any second it can cover the whole city But there is a law. Just like state laws. Up to this. No more admission. You have to stop. Similarly, there is law of God. Where there is order: You mighty ocean, you cannot come beyond this. This is law. There is sun. "You must rise at half-past, at five o'clock in the morning." "Yes, sir." This is law. "You must rise on the Eastern side." "Yes, Sir." Not whimsically. Sometimes this side, sometimes that side, sometimes that side. Cannot do whimsically. That is law of nature. And behind the law of nature, there is the order-giver, law-maker. This is perfect knowledge. mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10).

Morning Walk -- April 25, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, it doesn't mat... Therefore they're all madmen. You can speak in your own way. I'll speak in my own way and another fool thinks that both of them are scientists. They do not agree. Still he's scientist. Just see. Cheaters and the cheated. Somebody's cheating and somebody's becoming cheated. The whole society's the combination of cheaters and cheated. That's all. I see both of them, they do not agree. Just like they have rejected religion because two religionists, they do not agree. So why not these rascal scientists? They do not agree. Just see. They are so fool. But still they are after that. Their modern people they have rejected religion because they say that one religionist does not agree with another religionist. So there is no... Skepticism. So why not about the scientists? Just see. Everywhere you will find contradiction. Therefore anyone... and we are find out this contradiction because we have little attachment for Kṛṣṇa. Others cannot find out. We are challenging scientists, philosophers, although we are teeny person, because we have little attachment for Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, who is detecting their follies? Nobody. The scientist's follies, the philosopher follies, their contradiction... A devotee can find out. Paśyanti jñāna-cakṣuṣā. Unless one is highly enlightened, one cannot find out these defects, contradiction. Paśyanti jñāna-cakṣuṣā. We have got simple formulas in the śāstras. Simply on the basis of those formulas... Whole Vedic literature is like that. Just like Āyurveda, Āyurveda or astrology. Everything is like that.

Morning Walk -- May 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They know. Because they have full knowledge, "He knows here is God. Although he is four-handed, I am four-handed, but here is God." Because there is full knowledge. That is the difference. Here we are selecting some rascal as God, because we have no full knowledge. There, in the Vaikuṇṭha planets, although the common citizens and God is of the same feature of the bodily, but they know, "Here is God, the Supreme." He has got special signs in the... Yes, that's all. Just like the king or the president, we may make mistake. We may accept somebody as "Here is president." No. But the associates of the president, he knows. They know that "Here is president." Similarly, there is no question of mistake there. Four kinds of defects of material life—to commit mistake, to become illusioned, to cheat, and imperfection of the senses—these things are not there. Everyone's senses are perfect. When he sees God, he sees perfectly. He does not mistake. He is not illusioned. And there is no cheating and there is no imperfection of the senses. There is no mistake. These are spiritual life.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So all the living entities are completely satisfied.

Prabhupāda: Certainly. Because they are in the spiritual life. That is real life. Here it is covered. There is no such season as winter season, as summer season. Always spring. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12), simply ānanda, blissful life of knowledge. What do they know, the scientists, about the spiritual life?

Morning Walk -- May 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Body's circumstances association. Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. According to association, atmosphere, circumstances, the desires changes. So that is, desire means consciousness. Just like our boys, they had different consciousness before coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like you are also scientist, there are other scientists. But your consciousness is different from theirs. Therefore you could challenge him like that. If you can create life by accumulation of these facts. He says that I do not know. He is not confident in his science.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He is not experienced. He has not seen yet.

Prabhupāda: He is not above the defects, four defects of conditioned life. You know these four defects?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Illusion, mistake, cheating, imperfectness. They are aware of the imperfectness of the senses. Still they are proud of their knowledge. This is illusion. (end)

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But they are claiming that there is no life. That is their defect. Therefore they cannot think how there can be human being. But if you begin from life, supreme life, Viṣṇu, from another life, Brahmā came, then there is no problem. Everything is all right. Because they think that life comes from matter, so millions and millions of years ago there was simply matter. Life was not visible. That is their theory. We don't say that. We say both are the energies, God's energies, life and matter. The life is superior energy; the matter is inferior energy. That is the difference. Both of them are existing. Same thing, example: This nail and this part existing always. This is superior part, this is inferior.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are existing simultaneously or living entity creates.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Without nails how can I exist? Without skin, how can I exist? My existence means everything—my skin, my hair, my nails, my legs, my hands, everything.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So one is dependent on the other? Or the spirit is independent of matter?

Prabhupāda: The spirit is independent. Just like I am existing. That is life. And there are other limbs of the body. I can live even without limbs of my body, but I cannot live without life. If I have no hands, no legs, still I live. So therefore I am not dependent on hands and legs. My hands and legs are dependent on me. (pause) Is it not better to walk little, then sit down, compact room?

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They accept one energy. We accept also that. But they, defect is they are beginning from the material. That is their method. Just like this weather is beginning from the light and gradually it is becoming dark. So darkest part or the dark part is called material. But the dark is beginning from light, not the light is beginning from dark. That is their method. They are thinking that from matter, consciousness is coming. Now consciousness is there. When it is covered, degraded, that is unconsciousness. So material means when the consciousness is forgetful of Kṛṣṇa. That is material. Material means gradual development of forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa. That is material. And spiritual means full consciousness of Kṛṣṇa. Is it clear? Try to understand this. Darkness is coming from light. Where the light is not visible that is called darkness. This is not the nature of the sun, this covering, cloudy nature. That is not the... The nature of sun is light, but by the energy of the sun another thing is temporary created which is called mist or darkness. This is temporary. This is not permanent nature. Therefore material nature is temporary and spiritual nature is permanent. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to get out of this temporary nature and go to the spiritual nature, permanent nature. Nobody wants also this temporary nature. Nobody likes this cloudy atmosphere.

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Krishna Tiwari: It's all right.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So there, that is your defect. One has to become a brāhmaṇa. One has to. But you're deviated from brāhmaṇa.

Krishna Tiwari: I'm glad I did. (laughs) I'm really happy I did. I can assure you, Swami.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Krishna Tiwari: If I meet God, I'll tell Him I'm glad I did. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: That's all right. The demons always say like that. (disciples laugh). The demons say always like that. That's is the fashion of the demons.

Krishna Tiwari: No, it's not true. (laughing) You know, Swamiji, what I am telling you, it's not true, because I know I'm a brāhmaṇa's son.

Prabhupāda: You are.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Creation means the Creator. Just like when I see the picture of so many sculptor. So who has done it? I come to David. To appreciate the creation means you have to come to the point, appreciating the Creator. Otherwise, it is not finished. Or your knowledge is imperfect still. So these scientists, they are simply trying to study the creation. They have no knowledge about the Creator. That is the defect. Neither do they try, neither they can understand. They are so foolish and poor fund of knowledge. They should try to understand the Creator also. Then the knowledge is perfect. Just like the scientists, they are theorizing that life began from matter, chemicals. But wherefrom the chemicals came? That is insufficient knowledge. They say, "Chemicals existed." Now, we have no such experience... Just like we ate some purīs. Purīs had to be created. Not that existed. It is existing, but when I require, I have to create it. The crude example. The chemicals, wherefrom the chemicals came? That is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā. In this way you have to study. Simply to study the creation, that is imperfect knowledge. When you come to the Creator, then it is perfect. Just like if you see simply his sculptures, so many things, that is not perfect knowledge. Why this book is "David Wynne"? Now, you go to the creator. And ...the all appreciation is there, credit is given there. That is perfect. Otherwise, you see, so many stones are there, figures are there. But when you study that "This is the creation of such and such artist, sculptor, and he's such and such," then that is perfect. Study him.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Again, the same... You are comparing with yourself. Because your person can stay in one place only. That means you are simply comparing the Personality of Godhead with your personality. That you have to forget. He, He stays everywhere. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ (Bs. 5.37). Therefore we have to consult the authoritative Vedic literature. This answer is there, that goloka eva nivasaty, "He is living in Goloka Vṛndāvana; still, He is everywhere." You cannot think of. You are in this apartment. You are not in your office. But Kṛṣṇa, although He's in Goloka Vṛndāvana, He's everywhere, in everyone's heart. He's seeing everything. That you cannot imagine, how it is possible. That means you want to compare with your, this foolish, imperfect personality with God's personality. That is our defect. He's distinct from our personality, but He's a person. Yes. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He's also a person like us, He's also living entity like us. But what is the difference? He's the maintainer; we are maintained. How many persons you can maintain? A family of two children and one wife, you are embarrassed. And He's maintaining everyone.

Room Conversation With Three College Students -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, that... That is... You have to see through the śāstra. śāstra-cakṣuṣā. Just like you see the sun just like a disc, but when you go through the śāstra, authorized books, you understand that it is fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this earth. So what is the value of your seeing? Why do you believe you're seeing so much? Your all seeing is defective. You cannot say that you are perfectly seeing. You cannot say that.

Student (1): Do you believe that there are other ways...

Prabhupāda: There is no question of belief. Now let us quest... We believe that "If I see, that is all right," but what is the value of your seeing? You cannot see beyond this wall. Does it mean there is nothing? So what is the value of your seeing? First of all you consider. You are questioning that "I cannot see," but what is the value of your seeing?

Student (3): My seeing the electric lamp tells me that it is...

Prabhupāda: Now, now, now, but you are seeing the electric lamp, but why do you believe so much on your seeing power? You cannot see so many things, even though you have got the eyes.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests and Devotees -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi for some time, a few English words) (break) (Hindi for some time) (break) When the destiny of the people are to be controlled, there must be very, very intelligent man. That is Vedic civilization. There is standard aims and objects on which the people should be trained up. That is varṇāśrama-dharma. Viṣṇur ārādhanam. Worshiping Viṣṇu. This is the ultimate aim. So the whole society is divided into brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa—departmental—and they are trained up. But the aim is viṣṇur ārādhanam. But they have no idea at the present moment. Viṣṇur ārādhanam, he has no knowledge. But the civilization begins on this point. Human being means he's meant for viṣṇur ārādhanam. Otherwise what is the difference between dogs and human beings? The western people, they do not know. They simply think that dog lies down on the floor, on the road... "We have got nice, best apartment. Therefore we are civilized." So that is their defect. They are trying to improve the condition of sleeping, eating. That's all. That is advancement of civilization.

Room Conversation with Malcolm -- July 18, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Why in the West? Everywhere.

Malcolm: More in the West because the child is more constrained in his molding.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole defect is that we are missing the goal of life. Therefore we do not know how to conduct business with the goal of life. At the present moment, in every field, they are missing the goal of life.

Malcolm: They seem oppressed by weight of number, that there are too many.

Prabhupāda: No, goal is one.

Malcolm: No, people.

Prabhupāda: No, people do not know the goal. That is the defect of modern civilization. Not modern, that is the defect of material existence.

Malcolm: But a number of people over a certain size make a goal by the number of people.

Prabhupāda: Hm? What is that?

Room Conversation with Malcolm -- July 18, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: ...what is śāstra. Everything is there. You have to know it. What is avatāra. That is my business, how to know. But there is, everything's there. What... Everyone can know it. Sādhavaḥ, sādhu. Sum and substance of sādhu means devotee. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says, api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). "He's sādhu." Who? Ananya-bhāk: "Without any diversion of attention, he's completely engaged in My devotional service... Even if he has got some minor defects, still, because he is completely surrendered and engaged in My service, he's sādhu." Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). So this is the test of sādhu. Sādhu means he must be a devotee. Sādhu does not mean having saffron color and long beard and doing all nonsense. No. Sādhu means... First test is that he is unflinching, without any deviation. Api cet sudurā..., bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. Ananya-bhāk means he does not know anything except the service of the Lord. That is the qualification of sādhu. So similarly, in other places also, the definition of sādhu is there. Sādhu means titikṣavaḥ: he's very tolerant because a sādhu has to face so many opposing elements and sometimes very offensive, but he has to tolerate. Titikṣavaḥ.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: The people do not know all these things. They have no idea. They have no idea, neither... Even these things are there in the Vedic literature, they are not very much interested. And practically, in the darkness, they do not know what is next... I talked with Professor Kotofsky in Moscow. He, he is in charge of Indology. That gentleman told me, "Swamiji, after death there is nothing. Everything is finished." So I was surprised, that such a learned man, and he has no idea of the transmigration of the soul. These are the defects of modern civilization. Those who are leaders, teachers, they are not sufficiently in knowledge.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: I think, in western countries now, people are very much afraid of death. It's...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Especially in America, people are very much afraid of... They won't even mention or think about death which is a great weakness. One should be able to think about death.

Prabhupāda: No, no. The thing is... That is natural. That is natural. Suppose if, after my death, I am going to become something lower than my present position, certainly I must be afraid of it.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So work is required. But godly persons, they want to live a simple life and high thinking, save time for understanding of God. The demonic people, they are engaged in horrible activities. They have manufactured so many things. So in this way... There are so many descriptions. Actually, by the increase of demoniac people, people are not very happy, and they are missing the ultimate goal of life. That is the defect of the modern civilization. They do not believe that there is an ultimate goal of life, there is life after death, and what kind of body he's going to get next. These things are not, neither in the university education curriculum, neither people are interested. So at the present moment... This is called Kali-yuga. So people are being misled. Actually, the human being, the form of human life, is distinct from animal life. So if we live like animals, then we are missing the chance. At the present moment, this is the position. So we are preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement strictly on the basis of this Bhagavad-gītā. In the Bhagavad-gītā, there is everything explained. So if people take to it, if people are educated, then things will change in a different way. They'll be happy and they will be peaceful, nice.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

The nature is going on like that. And we are wandering in different species of life, in different planets. But our real purpose is God-realization. That we are missing. That chance is in the human form of life. So if people are not educated to this goal of life, that is not helping the country or the society or the human beings. If we simply engage them in the activities of animal life—how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex life, and how to defend, no more—then it is simply advancement of animal civilization. But those who are thinking good for all humanity, they should note this defect, that simply giving him nice food, nice shelter, nice sex facilities and nice defense, his problem of life is not solved. He should be given enlightenment about God consciousness. And if he is educated in that way, if he, by next life, he can go back to home, back to Godhead. This education is lacking. So we are trying in our small endeavor. But if leading personalities like you of the society, they try to understand this philosophy scientifically, critically, and take it seriously, they can, there will be great benefit for the human society. The program we have got, but we are not leading personalities. You are all leading personalities. At least in England. Lord... This group, House of Lords is there. It was always there. In previous days also. They were called amātyas. All leading men of the society, they used to give advice to the king. And brāhmaṇas also. I think the knighthood means that. What is the meaning of this knighthood? Eh? Personal advisors to the king?

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, basis... Now, suppose if a people in general, they are not advanced, by their votes, somebody is elected, he may not be also advanced. That is the defect of democracy. Mass of people, they are not advanced. So simply by their vote, if somebody is elected, then they will have to repent. Just like Nixon. He's elected, but these people are again decrying him, that "No, you are not good." So why do you, did you elect him? You elect, and again you reject. That is the defect of democracy. that people are not advanced. They can commit mistake, elect somebody wrong. And then they will lament. This is the defect. But monarchy, as it was approved by the Vedic culture, the monarchy, if the king is first-class, God conscious... A king should be like that. That is the ideal king. They are described in the Bhagavad-gītā: rājarṣi. The king should be just like saintly person, although he's king. Rājarṣi. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). And just like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. He was rājarṣi. All the kings in those days, they were trained up in such a way that they were saintly persons, although they were the king. Not debauch. So one person, if he's authorized... Just like the communists, they are thinking of dictatorship. This is also another kind of dictatorship. But if the dictator, or the king, is a perfect man, then his dictatorship or royal power is quite... But that, that is not possible at the present moment. But at the present moment, the democracy is also not perfect. Because the mass of people, they have no perfect knowledge. By sentiment. So it may be they're electing a wrong person. That is the defect of democracy.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That is not perfect God conscious. That is partial. Perfect consciousness means full understanding also. That is perfect God consciousness. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3). This is the Vedic injunction. If you understand only God, then you understand everything. But if he does not understand everything rightly, that means he's not fully understanding God. This is the... If, as you say, that a man is fully God conscious, but he cannot do this, cannot do that, that means his understanding of God consciousness is still lacking. It is not full understanding. A full understanding of God consciousness means he's a perfect man. He's a perfect man. He'll never commit anything mistake. Because he's guided. Teṣām... What is that? Bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam... Find out. A God conscious person is getting direct instruction from God. How it can be defective? It cannot be. Practical. But if one is defective, he's not yet fully God conscious.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So if he gets understanding from God, how there can be any defect? If he's not getting direct understanding from God, that means he's still imperfect.

Mālatī: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Pradyumna: Need some table.

Devotee: I have some kind of table.

Śyāmasundara: Can we use this table?

Devotee: I have some... (Sounds of setting up prasādam?)

Prabhupāda: Just like...

Lord Brockway: Thank you very much.

Mālatī: Thank you for waiting. I'm sorry it's a little late.

Prabhupāda: This is... These European and American girls, they have learned to prepare... (some background noise) Oh, you have prepared for me? No, I don't want any more.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: ...satisfied to remain in the village. That is the defect of the modern civilization.

Mother: In India, you mean. You're talking of India now.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere.

Mother: Everywhere.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everywhere.

Mother: What about India? I mean, do they believe, the villagers?

Prabhupāda: India, actually, they do so.

Mother: Yes.

Prabhupāda: The villagers, they have cows and land. That is sufficient for their economic problem. But the industrialists, they are alluring them, "To get more money, come here." So they are going to the cities. And the food production in the village is neglected. And therefore the food grain price is rising. Actually, everyone should be engaged to produce food, but the modern set-up of civilization is that few people are engaged in producing food, and others are eating. They are offering... They are artificially getting money. So they are offering paper, "Here is ten dollars." Although it is a paper, cheating. And they are captivated by cheating. They, they are thinking, "I have got now hundred dollars." What is this hundred dollars? It is paper. So some people are cheating and some people are being cheated. This is the society.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So you are thinking in that way. "How I shall provide this population?" That is the old woman's crying. Without sufficient knowledge. We do not believe in this, all rascaldom. We believe in God. If God can create... just like animals. They do not cry. They're increasing. The hogs and dogs, even lower animals... This is demonic economy. A man is holding thousands of acres of land and he's thinking of overpopulation. Why not he distributes the thousands of acres of land to the people? They would produce their own food. That is the, that is the defect of so-called socialism. But here we give a right type of socialism.

Yogeśvara: He thinks he has a fairly clear idea of what our program is now.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Reporter: Thank you very much for this (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Thank you.

Bhagavān: Śrīla Prabhupāda, this is Dr. Inger.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Come. Come on.

Yogeśvara: Give him some prasādam before he leaves.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Take little prasādam.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: First of all, you must become graduate, then you should take entrance in the law college, then you must learn. So what is God, that is the inquiry, but it requires training. And that is Vedic dharma, varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇāśramācaravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān (CC Madhya 8.58). Anyone who has taken to this system of varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra; and four āśrama: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Unless one takes to this institutional education, he's no more than an animal. So to know God means he must become a brāhmaṇa, real, qualified brāhmaṇa. Therefore brāhmaṇa is respected. Because, brahma-jānātīti brāhmaṇa. But there is no law. Lawless country. Therefore one is passing as a brāhmaṇa without any knowledge of Brahman. That is the defect. Formerly the government will see... I was explaining this, this morning. That it is the kṣatriya's duty to see that one is passing as a brāhmaṇa, whether he's qualified. Why he should pass? Suppose he says, "I'm medical man." He must be qualified. And if he says, "I am medical man," then he's cheating. So you cannot call yourself a brāhmaṇa unless you are qualified. But that is going on. And this cheating is being accepted. Therefore this varṇāśrama-dharma. Hindu dharma or Vedic dharma means varṇāśrama-dharma. One must first of all accept the principles of varṇas and āśramas. Then there is question of understanding God. God is not so cheap thing, "What is God?" and you understand immediately. You must become first of all brāhmaṇa.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Well, they do not believe in astrology. Therefore they cannot take any step. They do not believe in next life, so they cannot take any step. And whether it is a fact or not, because they do not believe in next life, so what is the use of taking step? Is it as good as to say that Jawaharlal Nehru has become Indra. If somebody says like that, so they'll have to discard this thing also, and they have to discard that thing also. Because they do not believe in the next life. Simply by presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, we can defy all these rascals. Everything is there. Bhagavad-gītā was not presented as it is. That is the defect. The first thing is: tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Nobody understands. And they are students of Bhagavad-gītā. Even Gandhi, he did not understand, dehāntara-prāptiḥ. All these political leaders, they do not understand what is dehāntara-prāptiḥ. What do you think, Bhadra Kṛṣṇa? The dehāntara-prāptiḥ, do they understand?

Bhadra Kṛṣṇa: It's not something known.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They do not understand.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Eh. Yeah. Therefore, if we have to acquire knowledge, we must go to a person who does not commit mistake, who is not illusioned. There are four defects in the conditioned soul: to commit mistake, to become illusioned, to cheat others, and imperfectness of senses. One may declare himself that he's perfect in knowledge, but his senses are imperfect. So how he can call himself that he has got the perfect knowledge by speculative method?

Professor: Hm.

Prabhupāda: The instrument which he is using for speculation, that instrument itself is imperfect.

Professor: Well, normally our knowledge will be imperfect in some way or...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Professor: Normally our knowledge is imperfect in one way or another.

Prabhupāda: How it is perfect?

Professor: Im...

Haṁsadūta: Imperfect.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: So imperfect knowledge, one who has got imperfect knowledge, how he can give lesson perfect?

Professor: No, but you can still give something, even if you...

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's all right, you get something, but that is not perfect.

Professor: No, but of course, there are different kinds of knowledge and...

Prabhupāda: No, our principle is to get perfect knowledge from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He's above these defects. Vedāhaṁ samatītāni vartamānāni ca... (BG 7.26). Find out this verse.

Pradyumna: Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: First of all, you find out that verse: bahūni me janmāni vyatītāni tava cārjuna.

Pradyumna:

śrī bhagavān uvāca

bahūni me vyatītāni

janmāni tava cārjuna

tāny ahaṁ veda sarvāṇi

na tvaṁ vettha parantapa

"The Blessed Lord said, 'Many, many births both you and I have passed. I can remember all of them, but you cannot, O subduer of the enemy!' "

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Because it has began from imperfect. Therefore conclusion must be imperfect.

Dr. Hauser: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But if we begin from the perfect, the conclusion will be perfect. What are the four defects? Explain.

Haṁsadūta: Uh, four de... Every conditioned soul, you or I, anyone, born in this material world, he's defective by four things. He has got imperfect senses. Just like you don't see what's happening beyond the wall. So this is imperfection of the senses. There are so many examples. The next thing is you're subjected to be illusioned. You may accept a thing for real which is not real. Just like we accept the body as self, but we are not the body. The body is a lump of matter. We are simply witnessing the changes of the body, but we are not the... So this is illusion. Then...

Prabhupāda: Mistakes.

Haṁsadūta: He's subjected to make mistakes. He'll make a mistake. Everybody knows. To err is human, right? And he...

Prabhupāda: Cheating.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That will make perfection. The brain will give direction That is the brāhmaṇas. The arms will give protection. That is the kṣatriya. And the belly will give energy, food, that is vaiśya. And the legs will carry the body. That is śūdra. This is... Whole society should be divided into four divisions, the brāhmaṇas, the kṣatriyas, the vaiśyas and the śūdras. And they should work cooperatively for the total benefit of the body. This is perfect life. Not that everyone should be brain. Then who will carry me? Just like in your bank, the manager is the brain. The secretaries and assistants are the hands, clerks. And ordinary worker, they are legs. Anywhere you go, you must find out these four divisions. Therefore the human society must be divided into four divisions. But there is no such plan. Now the plan is that everyone is being educated to learn technology, how to... In your country, especially. How to make economic development. So they have no brain. Therefore there are hippies. There is no brain actually. Now, the President Nixon, he is in the topmost post. He has no brain. Therefore he is being ridiculed. Neither he has honor. He is not resigning the post. He has been ridiculed by the people, but still, he is sticking to his post. So this is the defect. You have got in your country only the vaiśyas, the belly and the legs. I am just giving a crude example. Not only in your country, every country nowadays. There is no brain. Brain is finished. Therefore everywhere you will find chaos and confusion. There is no brain. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are creating some brain.

Morning Walk -- December 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Mistake, There cannot be... That is the difference between God and ourself. We are living entity, God is also living entity. But He has no four defects. We have got four defects. We commit mistake, we are illusioned, our senses are imperfect, and we cheat. God does not do all these things. That is the difference between God and ourselves. He does not commit mistake. He is not illusioned. He does not cheat, and His senses are perfect. Vedāhaṁ samatītāni (BG 7.26).

Dr. Wolfe: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in technological enlargement or prolongation of our senses, we are also defective, of course.

Prabhupāda: Because we are defective. This material existence means defective existence. This defection not there.

Dr. Wolfe: All the microscopes, and electric things, all these things, they are also defective.

Prabhupāda: Because it is made by the imperfect senses. So it must be defective. If you construct something with your defective knowledge, then it must be defective.

Karandhara: Even if they make a perfect microscope they still have to look at it through their defective eyes. (laughter)

Morning Walk -- December 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Dr. Wolfe: All the microscopes, and electric things, all these things, they are also defective.

Prabhupāda: Because it is made by the imperfect senses. So it must be defective. If you construct something with your defective knowledge, then it must be defective.

Karandhara: Even if they make a perfect microscope they still have to look at it through their defective eyes. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's it. This is going on. Therefore whatever they are saying, they are all defective. Yes. That is our conclusion.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So it is just like playing with fire.

Prabhupāda: Mūḍha mūḍha mūḍha mūḍha. Defective means mūḍha.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they seem to be quite satisfied.

Prabhupāda: That, ass is also satisfied. By unnecessarily carrying the load of the washerman, he is satisfied. Everyone is satisfied. Even the worms of the stool, he is satisfied. (laughs) That is nature's law. He is satisfied. So this satisfaction

Karandhara: The saying is "Even the pauper is proud of his penny."

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is also... You see... In Vṛndāvana I showed you? The dogs were starving, but as soon as he gets another female dog, oh, he is satisfied. To have sex. Oh. You see. So is that satisfaction? He is starving. The belly has gone down, and still, he is satisfied with sex. You see.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ah? Causeless mercy. His mercy is already there, but we are denying the mercy. That is the defect of material existence.

Yaśomatīnandana: Spiritual master is the mercy of God?

Prabhupāda: Yes. God is distributing His mercy from within and from without. Without mercy is the spiritual master. Without means externally, just in front of you.

Devotee: Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpā...

Prabhupāda: Ahhh!

Devotee: ...bhakta-gaṇe.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Impersonalist boys... (break) ...who are... (break) Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What is life cannot be proved by experiments. So it is not necessary to talk about life now.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Grapes are sour. (devotees laugh) The jackal's philosophy. The jackal came in the orchard of grapes and tried to take some grapes. He jumped many times, and when he failed, "Oh, there is no necessity, it is sour." It is jackal's philosophy. Sly fox.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, because he learned from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam, na jāyate na mriyate vā..., na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So we are... Kṛṣṇa consciousness means you are taking what Kṛṣṇa says. Therefore... (break) And then you judge in your own way, you'll find, "Yes, it's all right." Avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. At the present moment, because your, these blunt eyes cannot see the soul, you have to learn it by appreciation. Avagama. It is called avagama.(?) Appreciation. Just like Kṛṣṇa says that tad viddhi, that, that thing which is spreading consciousness, that is soul. Now you can perceive there must be something which is now absent, otherwise why there is no consciousness? Where is the difficulty? If you do not see, you can't understand it. Just like the same example, when good aroma is carried. So somebody says, "This good aroma is coming because the air passing through a flower garden, therefore this aroma." Now this is a fact, but you cannot see the aroma or the air. But you hear from an experienced man. That is the way of understanding which is beyond your sense perception. But these rascals, simply they are depending on their blunt senses, these stupids, so-called scientists. Therefore they're stupids. They simply believe on their eyes. They do not know how much defective these eyes and senses are, incomplete. That they do not know. They believe on their defective senses. Akṣaja. Akṣaja, akṣ... Experiment. Everything experimented. Veda says don't try to explain which is beyond your sense. How you will explain? It is not possible. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. It is acintya, it is beyond your conception. Why you are wasting your time?

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Yaśomatīnandana: ...and actually intelligence comes from Kṛṣṇa. So if actually one is sincere, then Kṛṣṇa will give him intelligence that "Yes, actually there is a soul, and actually I'm the Supersoul."

Karandhara: That intelligence is defective

Prabhupāda: No, no, my senses are defective. But the source from which I know, that is not defective. I cannot experimentally know who is my father. But the source from whom I understand, that is perfection.

Yaśomatīnandana: In other words they'll get confirmation within their heart. They'll be satisfied, that "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is God," if they are sincere.

Prabhupāda: Yeah. If they are sincere. That is the budha. Budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ (BG 10.8). Others, rascals cannot (indistinct). Mūḍha narādhama. They cannot.

Devotee (2): They'll say you're sincerely brainwashed.

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Devotee (2): They'll say you're sincerely brainwashed.

Prabhupāda: Brainwashed? Why? These are facts.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. You see? That is the qualification of conditioned soul: To become a cheater, and to become cheated. This is the condition. To become a cheater is one of the conditions of material life. The four defects: He must commit mistake, he must be illusioned, and he must cheat, and his senses are imperfect. These are the four qualifications of the materialistic person.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is also one of the qualities of bondage?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Bondage?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they are... Because they are, they have been bound up by the laws of nature, so these qualities they have developed.

Prajāpati: But why are they so very puffed up and proud even with these defects, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That is the, that is the... Therefore we say they are rascals.

Karandhara: Arrogant.

Prabhupāda: Arrogant. They have no qualification; still, they are puffed up. That is rascaldom.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Why not? They have to admit Just like I gave you the example that you cannot see how many stars are there, but there are. If you say, "I don't see it, I don't believe it," that is your foolishness. That is your foolishness. You have to admit that your senses are limited. They are not perfect. That is the four defects of the conditioned soul: he commits mistake, he is illusioned, he cheats, and his senses are imperfect.

Dr. Wolfe: But they say they try and try again.

Prabhupāda: No, try, how? How can you? You are diseased person. Suppose you are suffering from cataract disease. So you can try, try, try, try. Will you be cured? You'll never be cured. You must go to a physician. He'll operate, surgical operation. Then there is chance of seeing. You cannot, trying, trying, trying, trying. Then you go on trying, but you'll never be cured.

Dr. Wolfe: But that is just what they do not want to accept.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is foolishness. That is foolishness. They do not take good advice. That is foolishness. Foolishness means mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakipaya na śāntaye (?). Mūrkha, a rascal, if you give him good advice, he'll be angry. Just like a serpent, if you bring the serpent and if you tell the serpent, "My dear friend serpent, you live with me. I shall give you daily nice food, milk and banana. You'll be very pleased." So the result will be that his poison will increase. One day he'll say, "Phaḥ! Phaḥ!" (laughter) So these rascals are like that.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is the defect, that the government itself is imperfect. How they can check?

Umāpati: Well, they're so foolish. There was an article in the paper the other day about this shot going to Jupiter and the scientists were described, the scientists that everybody is supposed to depend upon, they were described as biting their fingernails in the hopes that everything would come out all right.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Yaśomatīnandana: They said that they were simply taking chances that it might come out all right. They were not sure themselves.

Prabhupāda: That everyone is taking chance. A poor man is taking chance to become rich man. So what is the difference between the poor man taking chance and the scientist? (break)

Yaśomatīnandana: ...which into all the characteristics are described in Divine and Demoniac natures. This modern world fits into all the demoniac qualities...

Prabhupāda: Yes, because they are godless. Whole modern world is godless. They don't think of God very seriously. Everyone. They have described it as "Opiate," what is that?

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: "If you want to stop this chaotic condition, then accept Me that I am the enjoyer and proprietor of this whole world, and I am your real friend. Let the business be done on My account, you take your right salaries, you be happy, and there will be no chaotic condition." But here the position is that everyone is thinking proprietor, and as far as possible, he is taking all the money, and other is starving. He is not getting his salary even. So he also, because he is weak, he cannot steal. The stronger, he is stealing. There is fight. Just like this chaotic condition of the petrol. The Arabians thinking that "I am the proprietor. Why shall I give to the Americans?" Thing is there, but it is chaotic only because they do not accept the proprietor is God. That is the defect. How you can give freedom for stealing? Stealing freedom means punishment awaiting you. If I give you freedom—"Yes, whatever you like, you can go on stealing"—that means next stage is your punishment. That is going on.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They will say that proprietor stage is relative.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is relative. Relative means you are servant. You must satisfy by your service to the proprietor and get your nice salary and be happy. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Whatever He gives, you accept and be happy. That is Īśopaniṣad. You don't try to encroach upon others. You receive from the proprietor your emolution (emolument?) or your reward and be happy.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: "All of a sudden, by chance," and they accept them as scientist... This is the drawback of the present civilization. Because they are śūdras, like animals, they have got no brain to answer that "How all of a sudden there can be explosion." They have no brain even to ask. Rather, they are giving Nobel Prize. This rascal is speaking like a rascal, still, he should get Nobel Prize. That is the defect. The people at the present moment, they are all rascals. Just like animals. And yes, actually they are animals. Just like animals are eating, sleeping, mating, and eating meat. The other one animal is eating another animal. That's all. No discretion, nothing. This is a civilization of animals, polished animals. Their consciousness has become animalistic. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Just like children. They are animals, just like animals. They have no fixed program. Whatever they like, they are doing. Whatever they like, they are speaking. Simply they are interested in eating. So at the present moment, because they have lost all their power of reasoning and understanding, they are all animals. "All of a sudden there is an explosion." How explosion can take place like that? Any sane human being will ask that "How is that?" Same example: If there is some explosion in the park, a rascal will say, "All of a sudden there is explosion." But the government, police department, immediately inquire, "How this bomb came? Wherefrom? Who placed it?" That is humanity. That is human reasoning. "And all of a sudden there is explosion," you have to accept that. You accept that?

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Business or whatever nonsense it may be, but our first proposal is that you become sinless. But they will not agree. They will remain sinful, and still they will say, "In God we believe, we trust," these slogans. "We go to church, we pray," like that. This is the defect. A man has come for your... You are a physician for treatment. As soon as the physician says that "You don't do this," you say, "I cannot give up this." Then how he will be cured? Let him rot. This is the position.

Śrutakīrti: You said to me in the garden the other day that there are two kind of ignorant people. One is ignorant innocent and the other is rascal ignorant, and that we should preach to the innocent. But all these politicians, they are not innocent, they are rascal.

Prabhupāda: They are rascal. They are rascal. Maybe some of them are innocent also. But mostly they are rascal because without being first-class rascal, one cannot go into politics. Just like if somebody says... Now, election. Somebody says that "You become vice-president." So why shall I become vice-president? Because I know I shall not be able to do anything. So why shall I waste my time? So another rascal, he will be ready. "Oh, offering vice-president?" But I know that if I want to manage the state, I have to make the people sinless. So if I propose that "Stop this slaughterhouse," so who will accept me? So why shall I go there? Nobody will accept me. Senate, senators, they will say, "Oh, this is business. This is impractical. You have no experience."

Morning Walk -- December 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...that... We talk in relationship, everything, because this is relative world. Everything we talk, that is in relative consideration. That is Māyāvāda philosophy. They do not accept the relativity. Although when there is some toothache, he will go to the doctor. Why does he not..., "No, it is māyā. Why I shall be troubled with the toothache?" Why does he go to the doctor? That is the defect of Māyāvāda philosophy. They are being affected by the change, but still, they will say, "There is no change. It is all the same."

Karandhara: Well, that is what they say. They say, "If it is all the same, then I can go to the doctor."

Prabhupāda: Yes, but that is foolishness. If they say once that "The suffering and not suffering is all the same," why does he go to the doctor?

Karandhara: Well, when you say, "It's all the same," it doesn't matter what you do. You have encompassed everything.

Girirāja: But they always go.

Karandhara: That doesn't matter. If they don't go or do go, it's all the same. It doesn't matter.

Prabhupāda: That means it doesn't matter... If I beat you with shoes, it doesn't matter? Why do you become angry?

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is good for them. That is good for them. Because at the present moment they are missing the aim of life. That is the defect. They do not know what is the goal of life. They are thinking, "We are also cats and dogs." And that is the defect of the modern civilization. Our human life is to achieve the highest perfection. Otherwise this āhāra-nidra-bhaya... Even the small birds they know. Just see how they are protecting themselves. They are also afraid of danger, and they are doing their own way. So if we simply discover atomic weapons for defense, that is not final advancement of civilization. Final civilization is how to save yourself from death. That is civilization. And there is no such program. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). The highest perfection is how to save oneself from these four miserable conditions: birth, death, old age and disease. They do not know. Nobody knows. Here is the process, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If people become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he can solve these problems. That is real defense. (pause) So defense automatically, the small birds are taking. See. They are so alert that the water cannot overcome them. Immediately, they flee, by nature. This boy, his leg became full of water, but they are not. (laughter) They are so careful. Just see. By nature they are defending. Just see. Such a big wave is coming for him, "Yes, fly away," immediately.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just see their intelligence. You are very much proud of your intelligence. Just see their intelligence. Everyone is intelligent. Therefore actual intelligence is he who knows Kṛṣṇa. He does not know Kṛṣṇa. He has got intelligence. You cannot deny that. But he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. That is the defect. You have got intelligence; you can understand Kṛṣṇa. So if you don't use your intelligence for understanding Kṛṣṇa, you are nothing but cats and dogs. Kṛpaṇa. They are called kṛpaṇas. Kṛpaṇa means miser. One has got money, but he does not know how to utilize it. He is called kṛpaṇa, miser. They are so rascal that they cannot conceive that there is something as God and He can be known. Hopeless. That is the real point. Otherwise why so many scientists are...? They know, "This is idea only. There is nothing like God. So let us put our theories." That's all. That is your business, theology. They are so rubbish. That was the first publication in (the Village) Voice paper. They wrote when I first began in 1965 that "We thought that God is dead, but Swamiji has brought God with kīrtana." They admitted this. I think the paper, you have got copy. You can see it. It said exactly like this, that "We thought God is dead, but here we see, Bhaktivedanta Swami has brought God in kīrtana." That's it.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Why you select a supreme being and give him all power that "Your order will be final"? Why you do that? Because you want the government must go on nicely. Otherwise there is no need of electing a president. So supreme being must be there, in every management. So this big huge management, there must be Supreme Being. And that is God. Clear, simple understanding. How can you deny? The difficulty is that with our poor fund of knowledge, we cannot understand that how a Supreme Being, person, can create the sky, this huge water, the sun, moon. Because I am thinking, "God must be like me." A Dr. Frog. He is thinking, "Atlantic Ocean must be like this well." That is our defect. He cannot conceive that beyond this well there can be a vast great mass of water. He cannot conceive. So comparing his intelligence, he is thinking that "How it is possible that a person can create such a big sky, such big, huge...?" Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). This earth, so big, huge quantity of earthly planet. So not only one. Millions. And then water, then fire, then... He cannot conceive. He is thinking that "If there is God, He must be like me. So I cannot do this. Therefore there is no God." The same, "Yes. I close my eyes. Then there is no enemies." That's all. He should be intelligent. Just like we are here ten or twenty men. You accept that "He is our guru. He is most intelligent man." Similarly, somebody is more intelligent than me, somebody is more intelligent, more intelligent. Go on searching. Find out the final intelligent. That is comparative intelligence. That we know. But what is that final intelligence? That we must know.

Morning Walk -- December 31, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ah. So you simply show the card, you get the goods. So to exchange, it has become very cheap. So cheaply you can purchase. Therefore cheaply you can purchase sinful things also. The people are becoming sinful. The modern economy is, "Engage people in hard working to produce, and by artificial cheating, secure the goods, commodities." This is modern economy. So a worker is getting three thousand dollar per month, but he is getting paper. But he is thinking that "I am getting money." He is giving his labor, and things are being produced. This is the policy. "Cheat him. Without giving money, give him paper, and get his labor, and produce goods." This is modern economy. Is it not? A laborer, a worker, is given high salary, high wages. So what he is getting? It is paper. And he is very enthusiastic to give his labor. So production is more. And when you go to purchase the products, then you have to pay again. Whatever you have earned, you have to pay everything, pay to the bank or pay to the man. Simply cheating process is going on. There is no solution. People are cheaters. They have been taught how to cheat. Everyone has got a cheating propensity. That is conditioned life. Four defects: to commit mistake, to become illusioned, to cheat and imperfectness of the senses. So cheating propensity everyone has got. So that cheating propensity is being encouraged more and more. Instead of minimizing it or stop it, it is being encouraged.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...is that nṛpa-liṅga-dharaṁ śūdram. The śūdras, fourth-class men, they are on the government executive. This is one defect. And another defect is ghnantaṁ go-mithunaṁ padā, maintaining large-scale slaughterhouse. These are the two defects of modern civilization. They..., on the top of government there are śūdras, not kṣatriyas. Neither they are guided by intelligent class, brāhmaṇas. Parīkṣit Mahārāja's first beginning is dvija-varya-śikṣayā. The guidance was first-class brāhmaṇas, and he was a kṣatriya, first-class. And there was no animal slaughterhouse. They are also suffering. They are bringing every day some problem. "What is the solution of this problem, what is this solution...?" But why the problems are coming? Because the defect is there that the, on the head of the government there are śūdras and they are busy in cow-killing, maintaining slaughterhouse. This is the defect. And they are not guided by the first-class, intelligent class of men. (break)

Prajāpati: ...getting worse over these five thousand years, but by a reintroduction, reintroducing Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the tide can be turned in age of Kali?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is the only remedy. That is the only remedy. Anyone who takes to this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, he'll be cleansed of all sinful activities and then everything will come out nice. And it is practical. It is not story.

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But just try to understand this. The principle is that if you receive knowledge from the real authority, that is perfect and quick. And if with your imperfect senses you want to acquire knowledge by searching out, it will never be successful. The modern method is to search out the truth by their imperfect senses. All these scientists, philosophers, they are doing that. They admit that their senses are imperfect. Still, they are trying to go to the perfect by the imperfect senses. This is their defect. They are hoping that "Our imperfectness will be perfect by this research work." That is not possible. Imperfectness will remain ever imperfect.

Prajāpati: They glorify such imperfections, Śrīla Prabhupāda, by saying...

Prabhupāda: Unless they glorify their imperfection, how they can stand? (laughter) They have no standing. If they do not glorify, then they are proved rascals. There will be no argument. They'll have to accept that "we are rascals." Therefore they have to glorify. The glorifying society... That is mentioned in the Bhāgavata. The glorifying society is consisting of ass, camel, hog, and what is the other?

Devotees: Dog.

Morning Walk -- January 11, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ah. So Kṛṣṇa is also mithyā. That is their philosophy. And therefore in the Bhāgavata it is beginning: paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. Satyam, not mithyā. Mithyā you can reject. Unless you find out paraṁ satyam. But that they do not know, what is paraṁ satyam. Therefore Bhāgavata gives: oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya, paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. (pause) The word is anyābhilāṣitā. Anya-abhilāṣa. Anya means "other than Kṛṣṇa." Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11), being completely freed from any other desires, jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam... (CC Madhya 19.167). Jñāna, the jñānīs, they also desiring liberation. The jñānīs, they have got desire. How they are desireless? Because they are aspiring after mukti. The yogis, they are aspiring after siddhi. Karmīs, they are aspiring after better condition of life. So these things should be completely free. Then he's desireless. If you are desiring mukti, where is your desirelessness? Just see. How they are bluffing! They want to become mukta, and still, they say "desirelessness." Here is your desire. Just see the defect. Eh? Why you are desiring mukti?

Gurukṛpā: Then they argue that you also want to, you desire to serve Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: No, therefore I say desirelessness means to desire for Kṛṣṇa. That is desirelessness. Even if you... We are not after mukti. We, we can go to the hell to serve Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is your...

Dr. Patel: Habit is... Habit is habit. But I have got all respect for you. Don't say that I am thinking that.

Prabhupāda: No, no. I know that. I know that.

Dr. Patel: That is... Don't run away with that idea that I am disrespecting you.

Prabhupāda: And therefore I am pointing out your defects.

Dr. Patel: That's all right. I am prepared to correct it.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: But you, you keep mum. If I don't excite, you don't speak. So which way I shall excite you? (laughter throughout)

Prabhupāda: No. There is no question of excitement. When you put a question, I shall answer it from the śāstras. Just like it is, it is any child can understand. If I ask a child, "What is this?" "Hand." "What is this?" "Head." "What is this?" "Leg." Does he say, "Body"? So you are speaking less than a child. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: Hm. That is what I am. That is what I am. That is what I am.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Any child, if you ask him, "My dear child, what is this?" He'll say, "It is hand." "What is this?" "It is head." "What is this?" "Leg." Does he say, "All body"? You are speaking like that.

Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But he's talking.

Mākhanalāl: Yes. But he's talking.

Prabhupāda: He's talking. These are the defects.

Dr. Patel: Huh?

Prabhupāda: Some rascal has said that "There is no need of talking." But this is also talking, "There is no need of talking." Why he's talking?

Dr. Patel: Just a rascal says, "There is no need of cutting."

Prabhupāda: No. That is another thing.

Mākhanalāl: But he is trying to... (break)

Prabhupāda: Sevayā praṇipātena. Sevayā. (break)

Dr. Patel: I, I... Do you like it? I have to ask you.

Prabhupāda: No. Thank you so much.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No.

Dr. Patel: No, which one? Fourth, June... And I was born in May, like that.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...Cāṇakya-śloka. The Cāṇakya-śloka has, paṇḍitānāṁ guṇāḥ sarve mūrkha doṣair hi kevalam (?). (Hindi) Now we used to make meaning like this, "A paṇḍita, he is qualified. The only defect is that he's a mūḍha, a mūrkha, doṣa, only doṣa."

Dr. Patel: No, Sanskrit, the, you... Some of the ślokas are so... That there is one śloka: keśavaṁ patitaṁ dṛṣṭvā pāṇḍavaḥ sa nirvaraḥ, kaurava hā rudann iti hā hā keśavaṁ ke... (?) Means water in the water. So means they are worried. That way it is right. But how can Keśava be, rather, falling and Pāṇḍavas would be sa nirvaraḥ? (?) (break)

Ambarīṣa: ...was a... Did he have some particular pastimes?

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) (break) Another rascal you told.

Guest (1): Yes. Correct, correct.

Dr. Patel: Condemn. (break) ...convert these rascals:

Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There is no revolution because that is one. Everyone is in agreement with God. That is spiritual world. Therefore there is no question of revolution.

Dr. Patel: If everyone was in agreement with God, there would not have been all sorts of quarrel and Māra-mārī and this... (break)

Prabhupāda: Everyone is not. That is the defect. Everyone is not in agreement.

Guest (1): Actually, they divided into camp... (break)

Prabhupāda: They do not know how these things coming, and how to amend it, how to reform. (break) ...countries, they are not happy.

Dr. Patel: They are not happy because the communism is not in the right. Communism is Cārvāka philo... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...others, they're also in the same background.

Dr. Patel: No, certain basic amenities are necessary. That is, has been provided in the Hindu religion. What we have to... (break) We have to remind them to follow your philosophy and that is... (break)

Prabhupāda: So you first of all follow. You first of all follow. Then you teach them.

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So īśvara... That, this, this, I was discussing the other day. Bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san. Īśvara. Bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi sann avyayātmā. So Kṛṣṇa is always īśvara. We are īśvara in the family or in the office or in my society. But we are not that type of īśvara, that I can live within the heart of everyone. Therefore there is distinction between this īśvara and we īśvara. The Māyāvādīs, they do not understand this. He claims that "I am the same īśvara." But do you remain in everyone's heart? Can you study, can you study what I am thinking now? But still, they will say, "I am the same." This is Māyāvādī philosophy's defect.

Chandobhai: Difference.

Prabhupāda: No, this is defect. They do not understand their incapability, and still, they claim, "I am the same, one, So 'ham." This is their deficiency. Here is the de... īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe... (BG 18.61). Do you stay... Can you stay, can you say what I am thinking now? Then why you are claiming that īśvara? You are a rascal. Why you are claiming. Namaskāra. And īśvara, īśvara means he knows... That is also described in Bhagavad-gītā... What is that? Kṣetrajña, kṣetrajña.

Chandobhai: Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata.

Prabhupāda: Ah! Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. Kṣetra-kṣetrajña-jñānam. Kṣetra means this body, and kṣetrajña means one who knows. Kṣetrajña. Now, you know the pains and pleasure of your body. I know the pains and pleasure of my body. But I do not know the pains and pleasure of your body.

Chandobhai: And the Lord knows the pains and pleasures of everybody.

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Chandobhai: And the Lord knows the pains and pleasures of everybody.

Prabhupāda: Therefore He says, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. That is the difference. But the Māyāvādī will not accept this.

Chandobhai: Kṣetra-kṣetrajñayor jñānaṁ tad jñānam...

Prabhupāda: That is jñānam. They are in ajñāna, still, they are claiming that "We are jñānī." You see. This is the defect.

Chandobhai: Aham ātmā guḍākeśa sarva-bhūtāśaya-sthitaḥ.

Prabhupāda:

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

(BG 3.27)

You see. He's thinking falsely that he's kartā, he's God, he is īśvara.

Chandobhai: He cannot be īśvara.

Prabhupāda: That is...

Chandobhai: Īśvara is one only.

Morning Walk -- March 29, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) It is stated in the śāstra, yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyaiḥ. Kalau, in this age...

Indian man (3): Why discuss these things for others? We are not meat-eaters, nor we do... (laughs)

Prabhupāda: He's going in a different way.

Indian man (3): As a Vaiṣṇava. No, that is what I'm...

Prabhupāda: No, you do not understand, that is the defect...

Indian man (3): That is my misfortune, that is my misfortune because I am a little fixed-cult man. But then you explain me what I should behave.

Prabhupāda: Suppose you don't believe in meat-eating, can you stop?

Indian man (3): I don't want to stop. For your followers yes, you say don't eat meat.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian man (3): Like that he has told us, "Don't eat meat."

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Morning Walk -- March 30, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Here is the... Śarīra-stho 'pi. Because it is said Paramātmā and jīvātmā, they are, both of them are in this body, that does not mean the Paramātmā has become like jīvātmā. Or jīvātmā has become Paramātmā. This is nonsense. Although śarīra-stha, he doesn't, he's not affected by the pains and pleasures of this body. That, that is, that is the defect of this daridra-nārāyaṇa philosophy, that although He has entered the body of a daridra, it does not mean He's affected by the quality of the daridra. But they are thinking, "Oh, Nārāyaṇa has come as daridra. Let me give something." This is their philosophy. That means Nārāyaṇa is now affected with this daridrata. (break)

Dr. Patel: Annakūṭa (Gujarati) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...we do not feed anybody.

Dr. Patel: You may be feeding, but others are throwing it away. That is why they have said daridra-nārāyaṇa.

Prabhupāda: That is... Others are throwing, others are doing this, this... That is not considered.

Dr. Patel: But they have not seen you doing it, you see...

Prabhupāda: Dari... Why not first of all offer to real Nārāyaṇa and then distribute to the daridras? (break) First of all try to understand that... Just like we have got prasāda distribution program. So... But that does not mean that we shall say, "We are feeding daridra-nārāyaṇa." We are offering to Nārāyaṇa and then feeding to the...

Morning Walk -- April 4, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Without understanding, if you follow like a storm, that is no use. That is no use. Slow, but sure. Go slow... And that is the defect in the modern. If somebody can recite Bhagavad-gītā like storm, it is to be understood he has perfected himself. No. Let him explain at least one word of Bhagavad-gītā. That is wanted. Slow, but sure. That is going on. The professional Bhāgavata reciters, they jump over Kṛṣṇa's rāsa-līlā. The rascal does not explain the first line of Bhāgavatam, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). It requires many years to understand that one word, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), and he jumps over, "Bhāgavata recitation means rāsa-līlā." That is going on. That has spoiled the whole atmosphere. Therefore that rascal has been able to challenge that Kṛṣṇa, that, what is that, rural?

Satsvarūpa: "Popular rural god with sixteen thousand wives."

Prabhupāda: That's it. He does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. And he is writing about Kṛṣṇa, "rural boy with sixteen thousand..." First of all, he does not know that when Kṛṣṇa was rural boy in Vṛndāvana he had no sixteen thousand wives. You see. Still, these rascals say, "rural boy with sixteen thousand wives."

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, that is also not mentioned. Simply Sambal. And Bhāgavata was written five thousand years ago, and there is also mention of Lord Buddha's name. Kikaṭeṣu bhaviṣyati. Bhaviṣyati. This word is used, "in future." So this is śāstra, that even the incarnation will come four lakhs of years after or 2,500 years after, still, there is mention. His feature, his work—everything is there. Why should we accept a false imitation unless it is corroborated by the śāstra? You cannot say everyone is realized soul because he recommends something. No. We have to corroborate. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is the defect of our understanding, that we accept everyone as realized soul. How he is realized soul? If he is speaking something wrong, how he is realized soul? Against the śāstra. That is not realized soul. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ, na siddhim avāpnoti (BG 16.23). Śāstra reference must be there.

Dr. Patel: In śāstra all the signs, symptoms, and characteristics of a siddha are mentioned. And those characteristics must be there with the siddha.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He is a rascal. He is not fit to be seen by the great personality. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ (BG 7.25). You cannot see the sun-god. Does it mean there is no sun-god? What is the value of your eyes? It is imperfect. You are seeing the sun just like a disc, but it is fourteen hundred thousands of times bigger than this earth. Can you see it? Then what is the power of your seeing? Whatever you are seeing, that is defective. So don't be proud of seeing. What is your eyes? What is the value of your eyes? You cannot see even the eyelid. Can you see the eyelid? Although it is attached to your eyeball. So what is the power? Why you are so much proud of seeing? First of all, understand that "I am so defective, I cannot see perfectly, properly." And you want to see God with these defective eyes?

Indian Man (2): Arjuna also says that he cannot see God. He saw the light only.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He was speaking with Kṛṣṇa. Still, he said that "I cannot see You." That is a fact. (break) Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). If you have got qualified eyes, you can see Kṛṣṇa always, twenty-four hours. So we have to qualify, purify. Sarvopādhi-vinir... You are seeing. You are trying to see God as American, as Indian, as this and that. With that eyes you cannot see. When you are neither American nor Indian nor brāhmaṇa nor śūdra, you are pure spirit, then you can see. They want to remain with this designation-body and want to see God.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, you have not so many experiences. That does not mean these things does not exist. Your experience is not all in all. Don't think like that. So these are existing actually. That is the defect, that you do not accept the authorities. That is the defect. Here Vyāsadeva is describing, who is called Vedavyāsa, full of all knowledge, and Bhāgavata is a mature experience. We are hearing from him. Why you should not believe? I may not have experience. This ghost means the living entity is subtle life without any material body. That is ghost. When one is very sinful, he does not get the material body. He lives in the subtle body: mind, intelligence and ego. That is ghostly life. And they display. Because they have no body, one cannot see, but they display so many mischiefs. That is ghostly life. (break) Seeing or not seeing doesn't matter. Therefore it is enjoined in the Vedānta-sūtra, śāstra cakṣuṣā.

Indian man (1): But it should be proved.

Prabhupāda: It is true because it is spoken by Vyāsadeva. How you say it is false? You cannot say that. That is blasphemy.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...social divisions. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). The other varṇas, they would give simply to the brāhmaṇas charity. And the brāhmaṇas were so advanced that simply by their blessing, they will get all benefit. So there must be a class of men who can actually benefit simply by blessing and the society must maintain them. This is real society. And everyone is śūdra, engaged in technology—then what benefit you will get? Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. There must be a brahminical class, a kṣatriya class, a vaiśya class, a śūdra class. Not that all śūdras. Then what will be going on? That is the condition. Everyone is being educated as śūdra. Then what benefit you will get? That is the defect. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Therefore there must be a brahminical class.

Indian Man (2): Selfless class.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Advanced in knowledge, who can teach other people nicely. And they can guide. There must be. That brāhmaṇa means spiritual guidance, kṣatriya means material guidance. So these things are necessity. But where are those brāhmaṇas and kṣatriyas? They are training everyone śūdra. Work hard like hogs and dogs and fill up your hungry belly. That's all. This is the modern civilization. (break) ...Kali-yuga's symptoms: dakṣyam udaraṁ bharitaḥ. One man is supposed to be very expert who has learned how to fill up his belly. That's all. No other knowledge is required. Whether you have sumptuously put foodstuff within your belly. And then it is... You are very expert person.

Morning Walk -- April 18, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: One has to practice. It will take some time. (break) ...yuktena cetasā nānya-gāminā. One has to practice. That means his determination is not yet fixed up. Because he is very rich, he is thinking that "This is all right." That is another defect of becoming very much rich. Bhogaiśvarya prasaktānāṁ tayā upahṛta-cetasām: (BG 2.44) "Those who are too much attached to this material enjoyment and..., by which his consciousness is bewildered..." All these defects are there because he is too much attached to material enjoyment. Why don't you give him dress if he has no dress. This is not good. You have not marked it?

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Then what is this? He's... Give him dress. (break) Give him lesson how to make tilaka. He has come to your shelter. You teach him. (break) Just like a diseased person, if he is a little careless, he is not very strict in following the..., it will take some time. It is exactly like that. He, because of his material opulences, he thinks that "Oh, where is the disease? This is all right. I am happy." That is the defect. We have to reduce. That is called tapasya. Not that "Because my tongue is asking me to eat something, therefore I must eat." Not that. That is the difference between ordinary man and gosvāmī. Gosvāmī means one who has conquered over the dictation of the senses. My sense dictates to do something, but when I am able to dictate the sense, "No, you cannot do it," that is called gosvāmī. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all try to understand that what is the defect. The defect is that malinterpretation, bad interpretation. Interpretation is required when a thing you cannot understand. But if a thing is clearly understood, why you interpret to mislead the leader? That is our protest. It is clearly understood. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Then what right you have got to say that "It is not Kṛṣṇa; it is something else"? That has misled our country. Do you admit or not? This misinterpretation. Why should you misinterpret in the Bhagavad-gītā? If you have got a different philosophy, you can write your own books, but why through Bhagavad-gītā? This is very dangerous. This is very, very dangerous. It has spoiled the whole country. You write your own philosophy. But why do you take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and misinterpret it and mislead the people? That is my protest.

Guest (8): What is the plan of the Hyderabad project?

Prabhupāda: Hyderabad project. That he knows, Mahāṁśa.

Guest (9): What your goal, to plan Northern India? Your goal to plan Northern India? How long you will be staying and...?

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: But you do your business. You don't follow them. That's all. You remain perfect. There are many imperfects, admitting, but you try to remain perfect so that they may see you, your behavior, and they may follow you. If everyone is sincere in his activity, then where is the question? The society means if I am defective, I am seeing that you are doing nicely, so I will be ashamed. That is also teaching. Actually that should be the practice. If I cannot finish my sixteen rounds due to some business, then next day I must finish it. If you say that "Next day also, I am busy," then you should forego your eating and sleeping and finish it. That is the way. You are so busy, but you do not forget your eating and sleeping. That is cheating. If you are so busy that you forget your eating and sleeping, then I can consider that you are very busy. But you do not forget this portion. "Whenever there is opportunity, I sleep and eat. And I have no time for chanting"—this is cheating. How long you can go on by cheating? You must finish it. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Somebody, after initiation he promises, "Yes, I shall follow these rules and regulations. I shall chant sixteen rounds," before the fire, before the Deity, before the guru, and if he does not follow, then he is a cheater. What to speak of his becoming a Vaiṣṇava, he is a cheater. He breaks all his promises. Therefore after seeing, observing a person is doing everything, then say second initiation, or then he should not be recommended for second initiation unless the president and the other authorities see that he is doing nicely, he is following. Otherwise he should not be recommended.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: We are making all over India members with these English books. Why do they not say, "No, no, no, I cannot accept English book." Why they are accepting English books? It is my fault that I have written in English or it is their fault? Why they are accepting? Everywhere we are making life members but why do they accept these English books? They could have refused, "No, no, no, I cannot accept English book." Why they are accepting? I know one boy. He is about forty-two years. But he was practically my first student. He is a very big scholar in Sanskrit. But because he does not know English, he is useless. He could not make any, prosper in any way. He is taken as half-educated. He was appointed as vice-chancellor of the Darbhana(?) Sanskrit University. Maybe it is only name. Anyway, now his teaching period is over. Now he is useless. He does not get any service. Although he is a very big Sanskrit scholar. The only defect, that he does not know English—he does not get any responsible position.

Pañcadraviḍa: He does not want to learn?

Prabhupāda: No. He was trying to learn but he could not learn it. If he is serious, he can learn, but he is not serious.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: At the present moment there is all over the world... We are touring all over the world. It is very hard to find out ideal class of men. That is the defect. In the Vedic culture the ideal class of men were the brāhmaṇas. Their qualification was: truthful, self-controlled, mind and the senses, and then tolerant, very simple life, full of knowledge, practical application of knowledge in life and full faith in God. These are ideal character. But such men are not available at the present moment. So therefore the social idealism is defective. Just like in your body, there are four divisions. The head, the arm, the belly and the leg. If the head is spoiled then you are a madman. In spite of possessing hands and bellies and legs, you cannot work properly. So at the present moment the heads are spoiled. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition. People, advanced in education, still they are inimical, one man to another. If you are passing on in the street, the gentleman's house there is a signboard, "Beware of the dogs. Don't come in," because he cannot believe anyone. You go to the airport, any high-class standard man. They search out the pocket. So nobody is believable. So this is the result of modern education. You cannot find out an ideal character man.

Richard Webster: Is this due to machines, do you think, to the prevalence of machines?

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: No, it is going on. In India I know. They are selling sugar at two annas, four annas a pound, or seer, outside, and India, it is four rupees. What is this nonsense? This is going on. They want to import some war materials or something else, therefore they want export exchange. So they are sacrificing the convenience of the local people for export exchange. These things are going on. These politicians, they create an atmo... Therefore I say the head of the state, they must be clean. But they are all motivated. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition. Generally politician has got a particular motive behind him. And when he cannot pull on they declare war. That Pakistan. Pakistan, since the beginning of Pakistan they could not make any economic condition very sound. But when the people are too much agitated, they declare war with India. The whole attention is... And they have been educated in such a way that India is their strongest enemy. Anything Indian, they dislike in Pakistan. So this is going on by the politicians. They are creating situation because they are not honest, they are not clean. And a clean man cannot become politician. Mr. Lloyd George said that "consistency by the politician is the qualification of an ass." There cannot be any consistency amongst the politicians. So that is the defect, that the politicians are the heads, the leaders of the society, and they are in disagreement.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: All right but thing is that after all our prime necessity is food. So why people are not engaged to produce food?

Richard Webster: Well, in Italy they don't like to work on the land any more. They all want to live in town.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the defect. That is the defect.

Richard Webster: Especially in Italy.

Prabhupāda: You do not want to live in the village, farm. In your country I am seeing. America, the farmer's son, they are leaving. They are not coming back to the country. In India also.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Cities have become centers for sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Atreya Ṛṣi: And it attracts...

Richard Webster: Who?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Sense gratification, sensual living.

Richard Webster: Oh, sense gratification.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: No. They may go sometimes. Just like in India, they used to live locally, but at the same time they used to go to the pilgrimages by walking. It is not prohibited that one should not go out, but when one goes out, he goes out of pleasure, not as obligation. At the present moment, it has become an obligation, that one must go out of his home, of his village, of his country. That is defective. There was no need of so many transports. People remained locally. One has to go for livelihood hundred miles. This is defective.

Dhanañjaya: But people say they travel for education.

Prabhupāda: What education? Hippies? Your education has ended into hippies. Finish that education, nonsense education. Now, you have seen in Harmonist that the school children, they are having sex intercourse publicly, and they are running naked in America. Is it not?

Satsvarūpa: Yes It's a very big thing now, running naked.

Dhanañjaya: It's called "streaking."

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Our life is so nice. We are satisfied with eating Kṛṣṇa prasādam and chant whole day and night Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. What is the use of this industry and trade. And transport and politics. There is no need. Anartha. It is called anartha, unwanted things.

anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād

bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje

lokasyājānato vidvāṁś

cakre sātvata-saṁhitām

(SB 1.7.6)

These are all anarthas, unwanted things. So to stop these anarthas is bhakti-yoga. Anartha upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje, lokasya. These rascals, they do not know. Therefore vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām. Vidvān, the most learned man Vyāsadeva has written this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād

bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje

lokasyājānato vidvāṁś

cakre sātvata-saṁhitām

(SB 1.7.6)

This is all described. First of all, the first defect is that you are eternal spirit soul. Why you should be entangled with this material body? That is the first fault. That is anartha. I am spirit soul. Why shall I accept this material body? That is my basic principle of unwanted things. And to make solution how to get out of this material entanglement.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: No, because they have no knowledge. How we can enjoy life without knowledge? They also accept that for this comfortable situation they require knowledge. The engineering knowledge, this knowledge, that knowledge. But that knowledge is not sufficient. You require another knowledge. That you are lacking. You are deficient in that knowledge, self-realization. That is the defect. This knowledge will not help you. For eating, sleeping knowledge, this child, if I give him some eatable, immediately he knows the knowledge, "This is eatable. I shall capture it and put it in the mouth." It doesn't require any education. That is natural. If I love this child, he will respond. This knowledge is already there. Even a dog, "Tch, tch, tch, come on, come on," he will come. So for this eating, sleeping, mating, the knowledge is there in the animals, in the children. That doesn't require any advanced knowledge. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (To child) Come on. Come on, yes. Very intelligent. (laughing) Thank you very much.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: No, no, you cannot expect that the whole world will become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is not possible. You keep your standard. Don't be bewildered by these rascals. That is our proposal. We should not be misled by this rascal philosophy. We shall stick to our own philosophy. That is required. Because we know all their philosophy are defective. That is not perfect. So why shall I be misled by their philosophy? We shall stick to our own principle, Kṛṣṇa philosophy. That's all. Everyone should stick to the right philosophy. That is human sense. Not be biased and carried away by some whimsical way.

Satsvarūpa: Their philosophy is very appealing because they begin, they say...

Prabhupāda: That is because people are fools, rascals. Therefore it is very...

Satsvarūpa: They say, "Look, all these people are starving and these people have all the money. Let us make it equal. And the people become slave..."

Prabhupāda: But that is not being done. Therefore I said... I go to their country. "Why in your country there is inequality? Why in your country?" That was my point. "Why you have made a class of men as manager and a class of men as worker?" Nobody wants to be worker.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: No, no, he does not know. Therefore he is changing from this place to that place. He does not know. If he had known, then he would have surrendered immediately to Kṛṣṇa. That is the defect. He does not know.

Yogeśvara: But the idea is "We can accomplish the same good results even without Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: That he does not know. He is a fool. He does not know what is a good result. He will change again. He is a rascal. He is putting himself in this condition; again he'll desire another condition. That is the change of body. That is his wanting. Sometimes he's taking the body of a dog, sometimes he is taking the body of a demigod. Bhramatam upary adhaḥ (1.5.18). Down, just like, what is that? Merry-go-round.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Ferris wheel, ferris wheel goes up and down.

Prabhupāda: Sometimes "I am so up," and again come down. This is going on. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān. Therefore, in this way, going round, one who is very, very fortunate, he, guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151), he comes to the devotional life by the mercy of guru and Kṛṣṇa. This is the beginning of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction. They are under the myth, under the spell of māyā. This is going on.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No, you'll not compromise; at the same time, you'll not make enemies. That is tactics. If you make enemies, then what is your tactics? You must speak the truth; at the same time he'll not be displeased. That is tactics. If you can defeat him by your argument, then he'll not be displeased. After all, everyone is human being. If you can find out his defect, why he shall be enemy? Therefore, it is said, "You better make a reasonable man an enemy, but don't make a friend fool." You don't make friendship with a fool, but if a man is intelligent, better make him an enemy. Because, because he's intelligent, although he's an enemy, he'll not do any harm. Because intelligent. But a fool, he may pose himself as friend, and he can do anything which is very harmful.

Paramahaṁsa: So we should be able to see the quality of man we are preaching to.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you have to make him intelligent. Everyone is fool, mūḍha. Everyone within this material world is supposed to be a fool. Because everyone is thinking, "I am this body." So he's fool. "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am German," "I am Frenchman," "I am this," "I am that." What is the difference? A cat is thinking, "I'm cat." A dog is thinking, "I am dog." So if somebody thinks that, in relationship with the body, "I am Frenchman," "I am Englishman," "I am...", then where is the difference between the cat and the dog? He's thinking himself as this body. Therefore everyone is thinking, at least in this modern world, the so-called nationalism, everyone is thinking, "I am Englishman," "I am Frenchman," "I am Indian," "I am this," "black," "white." So everyone is fool.

Room Conversation with Monsieur Mesman, Chief of Law House of Paris -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: A class of men, first-class men...

Yogeśvara: He says "We say, 'They should be,' " which indicates that perhaps now we do not have that situation.

Prabhupāda: No. Practically none. That is the defect of the modern society, that there is no brain. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition. In your country also, it is famous for so many revolutions. And whole Europe is..., Russia and other countries, because there is no brain. So there is need of these qualified first-class men, to lead the human society. Then next class... The head is first class, and next class: arms, protector, administrator. Their qualification is stated...

Yogeśvara: Nitāi?

Prabhupāda: Teja... What is that?

Nitāi: It's uh...

Prabhupāda: Tejas. No?

Morning Walk -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That, they are dipping in so many things. Therefore we kick on their face, that say, promise, so many things, but cannot do anything. That is the defect of the so-called scientists. They are promising, "By scientific method, we shall make man deathless." Do they not say?

Devotees: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But have they made him deathless? Simply a dream. That's all. Utopian dream.

Bhagavān: Even if they succeed in one area of doing something they promise...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhagavān: ...they create something that they didn't want to. They create some other problem that they didn't expect.

Prabhupāda: What they have created? They are creating... But still dependent. Suppose they have created this horseless carriage. Now they are crying, "Where is the petrol? Where is the petrol?" So if God does not supply petrol, then all these horseless carriage will be pieces of tin. That's all.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: But we are not doing that. We are, in the material world, we are teaching Kṛṣṇa philosophy, practicing. All these young men, they are actually twenty-four hours engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are different from them. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He thinks that the people in western world, mostly now they take Indian religion, some religion or philosophy come from India, because the Christian philosophy has some defect.

Prabhupāda: Very good. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says the religions that come from India are infinitely richer than the religion we know in the West. And we cannot see only one aspect. He says there is so many faces in Indian religions.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In... The idea of philosophy and religion, that is originated from India. There is no doubt about it. And that original idea of philosophy is practically demonstrated by Kṛṣṇa. The ideal original ideal of religion and philosophy is preached by Kṛṣṇa. And all the ācāryas followed that. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He said that is the distinction between the dogmatic aspect between the Hindu religions and the western religion.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: That's it. Otherwise either you follow Bhagavad-gītā or Bible as they are, then you become gradually perfect. The difficulty is they do not follow. And still they're claiming "I am Christian." "I am Hindu." "I am this." "I am that." Rubber stamp. No qualification but rubber stamp. This is the defect. (German) (break)

Vedavyāsa: ...qualifications on the material platform.

Prabhupāda: First of all acquire this material qualification. Then talk of spiritual. (German) Just like I think in the university if one wants to learn about law he must be graduate first of all.

Dr. P. J. Saher: In India. Yes.

Prabhupāda: So you, first of all become graduate then talk of law books. Similarly, you first of all become a brāhmaṇa. Then you understand about Brahman, Absolute Truth. Without becoming brāhmaṇa how you can understand? (German) (break)

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: That is the fact. They don't know it. And still, they are theologicians. They are philosophers.

Professor Durckheim: Oh, yes. Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: They do not know anything; still, they are teachers. That is the defect of the modern civilization, that one is not qualified man, and he is teacher. He has become a teacher.

Professor Durckheim: Yes, the theology is very much a collection of hardened, petrified interpretation of original experiences. And just because they are petrified very often, today theology has nothing to say to our generation.

Prabhupāda: No. I have got many disciples. They were formerly theologicians. What is the name, that boy in America?

Satsvarūpa: In Arabia?

Prabhupāda: No, no. There was a boy. He was theologician. Prajāpati, Prajāpati. Do you remember? He was theologician. Our only request is that Bible confirms there is name. Now, even though they do not know the name, here is the name, Kṛṣṇa. So why people will not take this name to chant? And if by chanting the name there is practical benefit, why they should object? Why they should be so sectarian? Theologician, at least, must not be sectarian. So let the whole world chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So if for a small government, three bighās of land, you require a personal governor, and such a huge government, millions and millions of universes, how the governor, the Supreme Person, supreme executive, shall not be a person? What is the reason? Actually, at the present moment, people have given up to understand the science of God. That is the defect. They are thinking everything here. Here is advertisement, "Everything here. Come on. Here is a bottle. Here is the pack (peg?). Come on." Everything here. That is the defect. And we are preaching, "Everything is not there." "Everything is lost there," we are preaching. No intoxication. And the material world is preaching, "Everything is there." This is the difference. We are preaching, "Everything is here in Kṛṣṇa, in God." We have... There is a tendency here. Just see. They want to worship Deity. Even on the street side there is such thing. The tendency is to worship Deity, person. I have seen in Rome. In many small lanes, they have got this, yes. Personal worship. So the village men, they are all sleeping now?

Professor Durckheim: Yes. Most of them are sleeping.

Prabhupāda: They are enjoying. Sleeping is enjoying.

Professor Durckheim: This is a very ugly village here.

Prabhupāda: Why? It is very clean.

Reporters Interview -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Mixes means... Just like, the example is given: just like a green bird enters into a tree which is also green. So if... To my eyes it appears that the bird is mixed up, but actually that is not fact. Suppose an aeroplane, you see aeroplane is going on. Then, after some time you see there is no aeroplane. It is the same sky. It has mixed up. It has not mixed up. Your eyes are defective. It appears like mixed up. But it cannot mix up. The airplane is keeping its identity. The bird is keeping its identity.

Guest (2): Is the human soul then limited or unlimited?

Prabhupāda: Limited.

Guest (2): Limited?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (2): That it has boundaries and...?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you are limited, therefore you are under the control of material nature. That is being explained there. He is limited. If he keeps his limited existence, that is nice. But unnecessarily, if he wants to become unlimited, that is artificial. How it can be?

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, we don't say neglect the body. But the important factor... Just like our, this Svarūpa Dāmodara has explained that behind this material combination, there is an active principle which is soul. That is the important thing. But in the modern age they are giving more stress on the unimportant thing, and they have no knowledge of the important thing. This is the defect.

Dr. Muncing: I think I disagree with that.

Dr. Harrap: I'm a little uncertain from reading some of your comments about the primary aim that you would set for science. I would place a great deal of emphasis on the contribution that science can make to the community.

Prabhupāda: That I admit. That I admit. Yes.

Dr. Muncing: With respect, sir, I notice you wear a watch. This must be obviously a product of science, and this is what it's about. But you are stressing time and again in your writings the need to concentrate on the laws that you set out in order to achieve some standing in the future, in the life hereafter. Isn't this at the risk of neglecting the people who are sharing this life with us here and now?

Prabhupāda: No, it is not the question of neglecting. Just like formerly there was no watch, but still they used to keep time by the movement of the sun on a dial, just making some marks on the stone. Do you know this?