So people are very busy for economic development. They think that is the highest goal of life. To get money somehow or other; and then, after getting money, to satisfy the senses. And when they are defeated in satisfying senses, defeated... Defeated means everyone is trying to satisfy his senses to the greatest extent. Unfortunately, māyā will now allow him to do so. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Therefore Bhāgavata says, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. Parābhavaḥ. The karmīs who are trying to satisfy their senses to the highest limit, they are being defeated. It cannot be. Nobody's satisfied with the senses, to the greatest extent. In Europe and America, this can very practically experienced. Many, many, old, very rich men, seventy-five years old, seventy years old, they're still going to the club for satisfying the senses. That means the sense satisfaction business cannot be completely done even to the point of death.
Defeat (Lectures, Other)
Lectures
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
Prabhupāda: Chivalry. Suppose you are fighting with an enemy. You are defeating him, you are killing him. That is also another rasa. Then?
Pradyumna: Ghastliness.
Prabhupāda: Ghastliness. That means after killing somebody... Just like a butcher. The butcher is enjoying by killing. Ghastly. Just like the hunter was killing every animal. He was also enjoying some rasa. Then?
Pradyumna: Wonder.
Yes. Na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. Simply by arguments, logic, you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. That is the Vedic injunction. Tarko apratiṣṭho. You cannot establish the truth by simple logic and arguments. You may be very great logician, but somebody may come who is greater logician than you, and he defeats you. That is going on. Tarko apratiṣṭha śrutayo vibhinnām. Now, if you read the Vedas, you'll find some contradiction. Not contradiction. But to the neophyte, it appears to be contradiction. Just like we have cited the example that animal stool is impure, but cow dung is pure. So by logic you can say that "Cow dung is also the stool of an animal. How it becomes pure?" But in Vedas you'll find such things.
So they are not ordinary. We should not think like that. The ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāva. That is Kṛṣṇa's expansion of pleasure potency. Kṛṣṇa wants to be controlled by Yaśodāmāyī. Kṛṣṇa wants to be defeated by His friends. Kṛṣṇa wants to be refused Rādhārāṇī's darśana. Yes. Rādhārāṇī is angry, she has refused, she has ordered the sakhis, "Don't allow Kṛṣṇa to come here!" Yes. Kṛṣṇa is flattering. (laughter) "Kindly let Me go." "No sir, you cannot go." This is Kṛṣṇa. You see. But at the same time, gopī-jana-vallabha. Jaya śrī-rādhā-mādhava gopī-jana-vallabha.
Pradyumna: "Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī has stated that devotional service attracts even Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa attracts everyone, but devotional service attracts Kṛṣṇa. The symbol of devotional service in the highest degree is Rādhārāṇī. Kṛṣṇa is called Madana-mohana, which means that He is so attractive that He can defeat the attraction of thousands of Cupids. But Rādhārāṇī is still more attractive, for She can even attract Kṛṣṇa. Therefore devotees call Her Madana-mohana-mohinī, the attractor of the attractor of Cupid. To perform devotional service means to follow in the footsteps of Rādhārāṇī..."
Prabhupāda: Madana-mohana, Madana-mohana. Madana means sex attraction. Madana, sex attraction, Cupid, and Kṛṣṇa is called Madana-mohana. One can, I mean, neglect even sex attraction if one is attracted to Kṛṣṇa. That is the test. Madana (is) attracting in this material world.
"As soon as I think of sex intercourse, immediately my mouth becomes turned aside and I want to spite on it." So therefore Kṛṣṇa is Madana-mohana. Madana is attracting everyone, sex life, and Kṛṣṇa, when one is attracted by Kṛṣṇa, then madana also becomes defeated. So as soon as madana becomes defeated, we conquer over this material world. Otherwise it is very difficult. The... Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Duratyayā means very, very difficult. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti. But if anyone surrenders unto Kṛṣṇa, catches His lotus feet very strongly, "Kṛṣṇa, save me," Kṛṣṇa promises, "Yes, I'll save you." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ (BG 18.66). "Don't worry. I shall save you."
Therefore there is a great necessity for pushing on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That is the best welfare activity to the human society. All of them, they are rascals. Abodha-jāta. In the śāstra it is said, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāta. They are being defeated by the onslaught of material nature. These rascals, they do not know. They are thinking they have become great leaders, philanthropists, nationalists, politicians, scientists, philosopher—but they're killing themselves and others. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇu. They do not know how to make progress. Therefore a person who has understood little value of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he should take this movement very seriously and distribute to the fallen souls. That is the best work. That is the best work. Go on.
Although Kṛṣṇa is not conquerable, but He likes to be conquered by His devotee. That is the position. Just like He willingly placed Himself to be conquered by Mother Yaśodā, to be conquered by Rādhārāṇī, to be conquered by His friends. Kṛṣṇa became defeated and He has to take His friend on the shoulder. Practically sometimes we see that a king keeps a joker amongst his associates, and sometimes the joker insults the king, and the king enjoys. The joker sometimes... Just like there is a famous joker, Gopāla Bon, in Bengal. So one day the king asked him, "Gopāla, what is the difference between you and an ass?" So he immediately measured the distance from the king.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
'Therefore, You simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. That will make You all right.' " Now here is the point, that was Caitanya Mahāprabhu a foolish person? No. He was not a foolish person. In His childhood He was known as Nimāi Pandit, the greatest learned man. Even when He was sixteen years old, He defeated another very learned fellow from Kashmir. So He was reputed scholar, and He was known. And Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī knew it that Caitanya Mahāprabhu, even in His gṛhastha āśrama or in His householder life, He was a teacher of nyāya, logic, and He's great learned man. He knew it.
He was a learned scholar, undoubtedly, very learned scholar. In His youthful age He was known as Nimāi Paṇḍita. This paṇḍita title, especially the brāhmaṇas are given this paṇḍita title. But He was specifically known as Paṇḍita, Nimāi Paṇḍita, very good scholar. And He defeated the Keśava Kashmiri, a great, renowned scholar of Kashmir. The Kashmir country is mentioned in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also. It is a very old country. And there were many learned scholars. And one scholar came to Navadvīpa to defeat the paṇḍitas, the learned scholars of Navadvīpa, but he was defeated by a young boy, Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Nimāi Paṇḍita was at that time only sixteen years old. But He defeated only in composition, Sanskrit composition. The Sanskrit composition, there is rules and regulations. So you know the story. He pointed out many defects in the verses composed by the Keśava Kashmiri. So he was defeated.
So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu was a great scholar. There is no doubt of it. But in spite of His becoming a great scholar, He is presenting Himself as a great fool. He says, "My Guru Mahārāja saw Me a great..."
Therefore this śruti-pramāṇa, the Vedic knowledge, will give you: "Here is your ideal place, Kṛṣṇa. Come back to Kṛṣṇa. Try for it. Try your best for this." That is the life. That is human life. And unless one is not conscious to this platform, he is defeated. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. We are born ignorant. And if we are educated more, more, more into the platform of ignorance, then our life is all defeat, parābhava. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long one is not awakened to spiritual consciousness... "What I am? Why I am suffering?
Do you think like that? No. Lord Caitanya, such a great devotee... Apart from His feature of incarnation, take Him as a great devotee, learned. He was vastly learned, and nobody could surpass Him in His learning in those days. He defeated... When He was a sixteen-years-old boy, He defeated the greatest scholar, Keśava Kāśmīrī. His name was Keśava. He came to Navadvīpa from Kashmir to talk with scholars. Formerly, as nowadays you have got—what is called?—champion, champion. What is the meaning of champion?
So some of the places in India, they are very famous for learned scholars. Still they are continuing. So Sanskrit scholars would come in such celebrated places, and they would challenge for arguing on the śāstras. So the rule was that two parties will argue, and the defeated party will become the disciple of the victorious party. That was the system. So Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was sixteen years old, this Keśava Kāśmīrī came to Navadvīpa to challenge. In other places he was victorious. He became champion. And then, at last, he came to Bengal, Navadvīpa. So that scholarly discussion will take place.
So the elderly scholars of Navadvīpa, they designed that "This Nimāi Paṇḍita should be forwarded first to talk with Keśava Kāśmīrī because He is a boy. But He is a very nice boy. He is a very learned boy. If He becomes victorious, then our Navadvīpa will be glorified, that 'Keśava Kāśmīrī was defeated by a sixteen-years-old boy in Navadvīpa.' And if Nimāi Paṇḍita is defeated, then we shall go forward. We shall say, 'Oh, you have defeated a boy. Let us..., come to us.' So we get second chance." So that was the plan, Bengali plan, second chance: first chance, second chance. So it was arranged like that, that Lord Caitanya, Nimāi Paṇḍita, would talk, would discuss with Keśava Kāśmīrī.
And then the students, Lord Caitanya's students, as it is usual, they began to laugh. Caitanya Mahāprabhu at once told them, "Don't laugh in that way." So this Keśava Kāśmīrī went to his home, and he was a devotee of Goddess Sarasvatī. He prayed that "Mother, I was never defeated in such a way. What offense I have made unto your lotus feet that I am defeated before a boy?" So then Goddess Sarasvatī presented herself in dream and informed that "This boy is not ordinary boy. You are fortunate that you are defeated before Him. Best thing will be that you go and surrender unto Him, and you'll be profit." So this Keśava Kāśmīrī became a student of Lord Caitanya.
And because He defeated the Māyāvādī philosophers, many other scholars also began to meet Him personally and talk with Him, argue with Him.
So this was going on naturally. Whenever a man becomes prominent, so many others, they come to challenge him. That is natural sequence.
The speciality of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu was that He used to put very sound arguments, and He used to defeat His opponents in such a way that they were satisfied. They were not inimical. And with the evidence of śāstra. Not that argumentum vaculum. He was putting reasonable arguments and evidences from śāstra, scripture. Sarva-śāstra khaṇḍi' prabhu bhakti kare sāra. And the beauty was that He was defeating all other arguments against devotional service. He was establishing only that God is great, and we are meant for serving Him. On this basis He was arguing and He was defeating others.
Therefore they are all mad. They are after the will-o'-the wisp, phantasmagoria, a wrong conception of life. Therefore all their activities are to be considered as defeat. Parābhavas, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. They are born ignorant, and they will continue to be ignorant, and they will be defeated by all their activities. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long he is not awakened to inquire "What I am...?" Simply under madness he is going after this bodily sense enjoyment, but he does not know that he is not this body. Therefore all his activities under this wrong conception of life are to be considered as defeat of his human mission of life. Yes. Just like the Supreme Lord is ānanda-mātram: simply ānanda, bliss, transcendental bliss.
Sri Isopanisad Lectures
This pavarga means the line of the alphabet pa. You know, those who have studied this devanāgarī. There are devanāgarī alphabets, ka kha ga gha na ca cha ja jha na. In this way five set, one line. Then come the fifth set, comes pa pha va bha ma. So this pavarga means pa. First of all pa. Pa means parava, defeat. Everyone is trying, struggling very hard to survive, but defeated. First pavarga. Pa means parava. And then pha. Pha means foaming. Just like horse, when working very hard, you'll find some foams coming out of the mouth, we sometimes also, when we are very tired after working very hard, the tongue becomes dry and some foam comes. So everyone is working very hard for sense gratification, but defeated. The pa, pha, and va. Va means this bondage.
This is demonic. Everyone thinks that "Oh, I have to do this. I have to do this." No. The doctors or doctors' fathers or his father, no scientist can check. "Oh, no, sir. No four years. Not even four minutes. You have to go immediately." This is the law. So before that moment comes, one should be very dexterous to realize Kṛṣṇa conscious. Tūrṇam yateta. Tūrṇam means very swiftly, very quickly you should realize Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Anu... Next, before the death, next death comes, you must finish your business. That is intelligence. Otherwise defeat.
Sri Brahma-samhita Lectures
You know, Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya was a great scholar, and Māyāvādī scholar, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu made him surrender unto Him. He became Caitanya Mahāprabhu's admirer, follower after being defeated in Vedānta-sūtra, understanding. That story is there in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya. So Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya became convinced that Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa. He wrote hundred verses about Caitanya Mahāprabhu, out of two verses are available in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. He composed—he was a very learned scholar—he composed one hundred verses about Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and handed it over. But in all those verses he admitted that "You are Kṛṣṇa."
Festival Lectures
You are born in England; therefore you are thinking Englishmen. Or other is thinking some other thing. But actually, we are neither Indian, nor Englishmen, nor Japanese, or nor German. We are spirit soul, part and parcel of God. Therefore that is self-realization. Unless we realize our self, all activities that we are enacting, this is meant for our defeat.
Therefore, practically we see that in spite of advancement of education, in spite of economic development, in spite of so many philosophical speculations, we are in the same problematic atmosphere. That is the defect of the present civilization, because they do not know what we are.
So at that time we had some talks, and of course I was defeated by his argument, my argument. (laughter) And then, when we came out, we were offered prasādam, very nice treatment, the Gauḍīya Matha. And when I came out on the street, this my friend asked me, "What is your opinion of this sādhu?" Then I said that "Here is the right person who has taken up Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's message, and now it will be distributed."
So there are many histories. So it is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He accepted everyone to this movement. So my Guru Mahārāja's contribution is that he defeated these caste gosvāmīns. He defeated this brahmanism. He created that the same way as Caitanya Mahāprabhu did, that, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu said,
- kibā śūdra kibā vipra nyāsi kene naya
- yei kṛṣṇa tattva vetta sei guru haya
- (CC Madhya 8.128)
"There is no consideration whether a man is a sannyāsī, a brāhmaṇa, or a śūdra, or a this or a gṛhastha, householder, or... No.
The subject matter "Brāhmaṇas and Vaiṣṇavas." So in that meeting Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was invited. At that time he was not very in healthy condition, indisposed. So he asked Sarasvatī Ṭhākura that "You go and speak there." So he spoke on the distinction between brāhmaṇas and Vaiṣṇavas, and he defeated so many learned paṇḍitas. Then the whole audience began to take, touch his lotus feet and touch with water and drink it, in this way, when he was young man. That book is also available in Bengali, Brāhmaṇa-Vaiṣṇava.
"You are educated young boys. Why don't you take up Lord Caitanya's message and preach in the Western world?" In the very first sight, he told me. At that time, I argued with him that "We are dependent nation, and who is going to hear about our message?" So he defeated my argument. (aside:) There is no necessity of closing. Yes. He defeated my argument. He was learned scholar. What I was? I was still boy. So I agreed (chuckles) that I was defeated. So after finishing our visit with Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī, I got some impression that "Here is a person who has taken Lord Caitanya's message very seriously. Now it will be preached." My friend asked my opinion, that "What is your opinion?" So I gave this opinion, that "Here is a person who has taken Lord Caitanya's movement very seriously, and now it will be preached."
So at that time I was in favor of Gandhi's movement. So I said that "We are not independent—subjugated. Who will hear about our message?" So Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura refuted my argument. I was very much pleased. I had so many talks. But I was very much pleased to be defeated, that "This so-called nationalism or any ism, they are all temporary. Real need is the self-realization."
So this Chand Kazi was a great scholar, and the brāhmaṇas lodged complaint that "This boy Nimāi Paṇḍita..." Caitanya Mahāprabhu was known at that time "Nimāi Paṇḍita." His mother's given name was Nimāi. And because He was also very great scholar, in sixteen years old he defeated many scholars. One scholar came from Kashmir. He was, his name was Keśava Kāśmirī, he defeated all scholars of India. But when he came to Navadvīpa he was defeated by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was a great scholar. He was scholar in logic especially, nyāya. So He was known as Nimāi Paṇḍita. Paṇḍita means learned scholar. Especially brāhmaṇas are called paṇḍita because generally the brāhmaṇas are expected to be great scholars.
Arrival Addresses and Talks
Brahmānanda: I don't know the details, but Pālikā said that they are..., the holes have been dug and they're expecting to put the foundation in before the monsoon. And that there was some attempt to stop the some digging. but that has been defeated. When I was there there was question about getting the No-Objection Certificate for the already-existing temple.
Prabhupāda: Existing temple?
Brahmānanda: Well, the little temple we have there now.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Every year it has to be renewed.
American body or European body, it may appear to be very nice, better than the Indian body—but that is not permanent. You'll have to change it. That is spiritual consciousness.
So we must be prepared. This is glānir. On the platform of bodily concept of life, whatever we are doing, that is all defeat. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. In the bodily concept of life, whatever we are doing, simply defeat. We are thinking, "I'm making very good progress." Rascaldom. There is no progress. Unless you become inquisitive, athāto brahma jijñāsā, there is no progress. That has been taught by our ācāryas.
You cannot check it. Similarly, this infection will give us our next body. That we do not know. This is a rascal civilization. They're kept into the darkness, that how things are going on. Their so-called education, university... So whatever they are doing, they are all being defeated. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Ātma-tattvam. Unless one is inquisitive to understand "What I am?" whatever he is doing, he's being defeated. That's all. Parābhavaḥ.
Nobody will say ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Nobody will say. Nobody will say because he does not know. So what is the value of this education if one does not know what he is? Therefore śāstra says parābhavaḥ. In ignorance, gross ignorance, anything you are doing, that is parābhava. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to save the people from this defeating position. We are trying... So far I have tried single-handed. And now the, a little pressure is felt even by some American politicians. Recently one American politician has remarked that "This Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is just like epidemic. (laughs) And if we do not take any step then within ten years they'll take our government." So the Communists in India, they are trying to defeat us in so many ways.
Prabhupāda: Parābhavaḥ. One who is abodha, he is parābhava.
Indian man (3): Parābhava, defeated.
Prabhupāda: Defeat. And one is subodha, he is victory. So human life is meant for becoming subhodha, not abodha. But they are keeping abodha. This is difficulty. Everyone is abodha.
Indian man (2): Mahārāja, I had a gentleman talking to me who is very intimate with Sanjaya Gandhi. And he was telling me that Sanjaya Gandhi very forcefully hinted, "Why are you people not working now? Why is the Arya-samaj silent? Why the other powerful sects and movements are not working? Why have you taken this country into the hands of Muslims?"
Initiation Lectures
He took away all the cowherds boys and friend, yes, calves and cows from Kṛṣṇa just to see the fun. And Kṛṣṇa created many thousand cowherd boys immediately. So this yogic power has nothing to do. If you can get Kṛṣṇa... Just like Mother Yaśodā and other friends. Just like I told you about Bhadrasena. He was challenging Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa was defeated. And when Kṛṣṇa became defeated, He had to take on His shoulder His friend. So this is another thing. And to be satisfied with little power and little influence within this material world, that is nothing. That is worthless. As soon as this body is finished, everything is finished. It has no value.
He once traveled all over the space. Not only within this universe—he traveled outside the universe in the spiritual world, and he saw the Supreme Personality of Godhead face to face. He was such a powerful yogi. And he took only one year to come back again. So still, he was defeated by a devotee. He was very angry. Anyway, he was a great yogi. And anyone, a great personality, we should ask his blessings for making advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's all. Next.
He was born in a very respectable high brāhmaṇa family, Jagannātha Miśra, and mother's side, the Nīlāmbara Cakravartī, he was very respectable brāhmaṇa. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu's learning, nobody could excel Him, He was so learned scholar. And when He was sixteen years old, He defeated one of the most learned scholar of India, Keśava Bhāratī. So learning, family... And wife? Personally goddess of fortune, Lakṣmīpriyā and Viṣṇupriyā, most beautiful and young. Viṣṇupriyā was His second wife, so faithful, so beautiful, personally goddess of fortune, such wife. And mother, most affectionate. There is no comparison with Śacī-mātā. So this was... And influence? When He was twenty years old, He could, by His command, gather 100,000 people to protest against Kazi, He was so popular.
General Lectures
So if we want to make solution of the problems of life, then we have to understand what I am. And unless this question arises in your mind—not only in your mind, everyone's mind—then we should, we must consider that whatever we are doing, that is our defeat because we are doing everything in false consciousness.
In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. Abodha-jātaḥ means one who is born fool. Every one of us is a born fool. Why? From the beginning of our life I know that "I am this body," although I am not this body. Therefore we are all born fools, everyone. And therefore, according to Vedic civilization, one has to take his second birth.
However I may be big philosopher, I may be very big philosopher, very logician, but as soon as another big logician, another big philosopher comes, he defeats me. That is the way. And every philosopher, every logician is trying to defeat your theory, as you are trying to defeat others' theories. This is going on. So as Śrīman Janārdana said, the knowledge which you are searching in different ways, that is impossible to come to the conclusion. Because we are searching with... However I may accept this method or that method or that method, but accepting the method means employing my senses. But the senses are imperfect. Either I accept this or that, I have to work with my senses.
If the body is important, why it becomes nonsense immediately after the departure of the soul? Therefore the soul is important. One who does not know the soul, his all activities are defeat. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jato yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Anyone who has not inquired about the soul, because he is born ignorant, born in darkness, he does not know what is soul, what is this body, what is this world. Therefore born in darkness. So if in that darkness and ignorance he is acting so many things, what is the profit? It is simply defeat. So a person who does not inquire into the existence of soul, his real identity, all his so-called improvement is simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply laboring, that's all.
They are very much proud of advancement of knowledge, but they do not know that the cause of suffering is this body. They do not know. And they do not know how to make a solution of this material existence. Therefore parābhava. Bhāgavata says all their so-called, nonsense advancement of civilization is defeat. Defeat. Lord Jesus Christ also said like that, that "If one gains everything and then loses his own soul, what does he gain?" Similarly, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. A man's life is defeat only. However he may be very expert in driving motorcar day and night, this way and that way, very busy man, but if he does not inquire about his self—"What I am?
Wherefrom I have come? Where I have to go to? Why I am suffering? Why I am put to this disadvantageous position?"—when one does not inquire for all these things, then his activities are defeat, only defeat. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness will save not only humanity but the living entities from this disastrous position of repeated birth and death. The Bhagavad-gītā, therefore, they stress on this point. Lord Kṛṣṇa stresses that janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam: (BG 13.9) "You are very much proud of your knowledge, but if you want to be at all a man of knowledge, a man of wisdom, then you should first of all keep before you the problems of birth, death, old age and disease, because your so-called advancement of knowledge cannot make a solution of this birth, death, old age and disease."
Teṣāṁ pramatto nidhanaṁ paśyann api na paśyati. But they are so mad that although they are seeing that others' children are dying, others' wife is dying, one, another friend is dying, other nation is being defeated, other social custom or social friendship or any attachment, they are being spoiled, they are attached to all these things only. Dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣu (SB 2.1.4). They have no other information.
But you are not like that. You are, from the beginning of your life, you are given advantage by your parents, by your family, to develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because Mahārāja Parīkṣit, when he was in the womb of his mother the other side of the Kuru dynasty, they released atom bomb to kill him, and Kṛṣṇa saved him.
Not modern age. It is also old system, because in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam we find one verse which says, tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ: "Simple arguments and logic will not carry you to the Absolute Truth." Tarkaḥ. Tarkaḥ means arguments. You may be very good logician, you can argue very nice, but another logician may come and defeat you. That is going on. New philosopher, new logician, new thinker means he defeats his previous other scripture in some details. Of course, on nkers, logicians, and philosophers, and becomes prominent. That is the materialistic way of gaining name, fame and popularity. But our process is different. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ. We accept that simply by arguments and logic, it is not possible to approach the Absolute Truth. Absolute Truth is not subjected to our deficient logic or argument.
So it is very surprising that Indian students are asking, "What is God?" So this is lamentable in this sense, that people are reducing in their sense of spiritual realization. That is a very regrettable fact. And the Bhāgavata says, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam: "A man is supposed to be defeated in all his activities if he does not inquire what he is." This statement is also in Bible, you know, that "If one loses his own self and he gains all material prosperity, what does he gain?" Actually, this is the fact.
We have got developed consciousness, intelligence. We should ask, "What is this life?" The Bhāgavata says, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. We are ignorant, we are born ignorant, and we are doing so many things, activities, we are engaged. But we should see whether we are gaining or losing, whether we are conquering or being defeated. That should be our business to see.
So, how to test it? The Bhāgavata says, so long you do not come to the platform of understanding yourself, whatever you are doing, it is simply defeat. Zero. Zero has no value. If you go on adding zero, zero, zero, zero, million times, the value is zero. But, if there is zero and put on the left side one, it becomes immediately ten. Therefore, according to... Not according to. Everyone, everyone reasonable man can understand that "What I am doing?
What I am gaining?" In your country especially, I see there is so much frustration among youngsters. They are finding that this is zero. Somehow or other they are trying to realize that this sort of life is zero. Actually. Human life, simply increasing the demands of our senses, these activities are zero activities. Parābhava, defeating. Yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. When a human being, as long as a human being does not inquire "What I am? Why I am suffering? I do not wish to die. Why death is enforced upon me? I do not want to be diseased. Why disease is forced upon me? I do not want to become old. Why I become old? I do not wish to die. Why I..." These things are very important questions. That is called ātma-tattvam, self-realization.
Human civilization is meant for understanding one's self, what I am, and act according to that. So Bhāgavata says, if we do not come to that point of understanding my self, then whatever I am doing or acting, this is simply defeat, or simply waste of time. At the same time, there is warning that we should not waste even a single moment of our life. Please try to understand these Vedic instructions, how nice they are. There is a great politician of the name Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. He was prime minister of Emperor Candragupta, a contemporary to the reign of Alexander the Great, in Greece.
Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī asked first of all Caitanya Mahāprabhu that "I understand that You are were a very good scholar in Your previous life." Caitanya Mahāprabhu actually was a very great scholar. His name was Nimāi Paṇḍita. And at the age of sixteen years old He defeated one great scholar from Kashmir, Keśava Kāśmīrī. So He was a great scholar. So Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī asked Him that "I understand that You are a great scholar, Sanskrit scholar, and especially in logic You are a very good scholar. And You are now sannyāsī. You were born in a brāhmaṇa family. How is that You are chanting and dancing without reading Vedānta?" This was the first question made by Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī. And He replied, "Yes.
That we have got. So Bhāgavata says, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ: "All living entities who are born ignorant, whatever they are doing for advancement of society, culture, education, civilization, all such activities are defeat only if he does not inquire what he is." Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Ātma-tattvam. So long one does not inquire, "What I am? What is God? What is this material nature? What are these activities? What are our relationships?"—if these inquiries are not there, then all our activities are simply defeat. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam.
This is called ignorance. Therefore Bhāgavata says parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāta. Abodha-jāta, every one of us born foolish. And we are acting in different ways to become happy, but we do not know that every step we are being defeated. We are fighting with the stringent laws of nature, struggle, but we are happy by some complacent thoughts that we have become happy, we are advanced. We are happy. We are becoming educated, we are advanced in science. But Bhāgavata says, "No, you are not advancing, you are simply being defeated, because you do not know how to get happiness. You are not trying for real happiness."
Narottama dasa Ṭhākura says that you have to act by accommodating the instruction of sādhu, instruction of śāstra. And you have to distribute. Because Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that these ignorant people who are being defeated repeatedly, such persons, they are being entangled in this materialistic way of life, in this material world. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva. He said, kṛṣṇa bhuli' sei jīva anādi-bahirmukha (CC Madhya 20.117). Anyone who has forgotten Kṛṣṇa, he is anādi bahir mukha. He is enamored by this external energy, material world. Just like in Bombay city everyone is working hard, very hard. Their mission is, "How I shall be able to construct a skyscraper building." That's all. Why they are working so hard?
Because you may be very good, I mean to way, logician, putting forward nice arguments, but somebody may come who is better than you. He will spoil all your logic, and he will establish his own logic. That is nyāya-śāstra. In Sanskrit there is nyāya-śāstra. So they are taught how to defeat his opponent. Therefore the Absolute Truth you cannot understand by argument, by material dealings.
Kṛṣṇa conscious, we are trying to revive Kṛṣṇa consciousness means we are trying to get out of this conditional life of forgetfulness. That is our perfection of life. We are trying to achieve that perfectional state of life. That is called struggle for existence, and somehow or other defeated.
So, our last point of perfection, where we can survive eternally, is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is started in your country. It is not a new manufactured thing, concocted thing. It is very old, because the Bhagavad-gītā is there.
So Prahlāda Mahārāja's recommendation is very genuine. That is the Vedic system. But he was unfortunately born in an asura family. His father was a great asura. Asura means godless. He had also undergone severe austerity to achieve the power. He was defeated by the demigods. So he left his home and underwent severe austerities so that the whole universe became trembled and Brahmājī came to appease him, "What do you want?" He said, "I want to become immortal." So Brahmājī said, "How can I give you the benediction of immortality, because myself I am not immortal?" Everyone has to die in this material world, either one may be Brahmā or a small ant. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). "So this is not possible. I cannot make you immortal."
That is intelligence. Intelligence means one should be inquisitive about his goal of life. In the Bhāgavata also in another place, the instruction of Ṛṣabhadeva, that parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto. Abodha-jāto, everyone is born ignorant. So in ignorance, whatever you will act, that is our defeat; that is not our gain. The gain is only when you develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the only gain in his human form of life. Otherwise, whatever you gain, that is lost. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply wasting time, time and energy. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "My dear friends..." He was teaching his class friends who were five years old, and he said that durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam.
You have heard that there is always fight between the atheist and the theist, or the demigods and the demons, sura asura. So sometimes there was a fight between the asuras and the devas. The asuras became defeated, and Hiraṇyakaśipu left the battle. So as it sometimes appears..., happens in the war, the wife of Hiraṇyakaśipu was captured by the demigods, and she was being taken away although she was pregnant. So Nārada Muni met on the way and he asked the demigods, "Oh, what you are doing this? You are taking away one pregnant woman?
So this is the beginning, as I have told you. Parābhava. Without understanding our relationship with the Supreme Lord, whatever we are creating by our industrialization, economic development or so on and so on, it is all defeat, because we are losing the chance. Lord Jesus Christ also said in one place that "If we are lost of our souls and if we gain the whole world, then what is the gain?" Actually that is the fact. We are losing ourselves. Suppose after making huge amounts of money in the bank balance, and if I die and if I take birth in the next life as a cat and dog, then what is the benefit of amassing such a huge amount of bank balance?
We should understand this. Therefore unless we inquire about the Brahman or the Absolute Truth, then whatever activities we are performing without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, without the knowledge of the Brahman, then they are all defeat. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Therefore human life actually begins when this inquiry is there. If this inquiry is not there, then it is animal life. That is stated in the Upaniṣads: etad viditya (...Sanskrit). If anyone passes away from this material world, from this body, after understanding what is Brahman, what is Kṛṣṇa, what is this world, what I am, then he is a brāhmaṇa. (Sanskrit) And if one passes away like cats and dogs without understanding, then he's a kṛpaṇa. Kṛpaṇa means miser, who could not properly use his property or assets. He's called a miser. So we have got this human form of life.
You are all artists, but when we appreciate the greatest artist, Kṛṣṇa, then our life is successful. Otherwise, whatever we are doing, it is said that we are being defeated unless we come to the point to appreciate the greatest artist who has created all this arrangement.
That appreciation we find in the prayers of Brahmā, Brahmā, who is the creator of this universe. So he is writing in appreciation of Govinda.
This is the influence of nature. As he associated with the nature, ignorance, dark ignorance. He cannot check it. Therefore the best service to humanity is to give him knowledge. Because everyone is in ignorance. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāta yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Everyone is being defeated out of this ignorance. Therefore one should come to the platform of inquiring about the self. That is the best service, athāto brahma jijñāsā, To revive, invoke people to inquire about Brahman, and that will solve all the questions.
Because guru's business is ajñāna-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalākayā. Guru's business is to enlighten the disciple, because he's in darkness. In another place in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Parābhavaḥ, parābhavaḥ means defeat. Defeat. So whose defeat? Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto: one who is born rascal and fool. Everyone is born rascal and fool. Nobody, otherwise, if you are learned, if you are..., if you know things, then why do you go to a school and college and pass university? It is a fact. Animals. If we do not cultivate knowledge, then we are as good as animals. Now another animal is saying that there is no need of books, and he has become guru. But how you can get knowledge without authoritative studies of books and science and philosophy? But they are trying to avoid this. So imagine what kind of guru and what kind of disciple.
So śāstra says, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto. Abodha-jāto. Everyone is born rascal, fool. He has to be enlightened, he has to be given knowledge, and he has to receive knowledge to make his life perfect. Therefore parābhavaḥ means one who does not make his life perfect, he's being defeated. What is the defeat? Struggle for existence. We are trying to get better life. Here also, in this life also, we are struggling hard for getting better position. So real better position we do not know. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā: saḥ amṛtatvāya kalpate. Here in this material world there is no better position because there is death. You may possess a very good better position, but you'll have to give it up. Either the better position will give up you, or ultimately you have to give up that better position. You cannot stay.
A little dysentery, or cholera, dysentery—finished, better position. Or the bank fails—that better position gone. So there is no better position in this material world. It is a false. Therefore those who are trying to get better position in this material world, they are simply becoming defeated, because there is no better position. He's a rascal. He's thinking this is better position. What is better position? Then Bhagavad-gītā says the better position is amṛtatva. Saḥ amṛtatvāya kalpate: "Don't die. Keep your position firm." That is better position. So is there any science to give knowledge how one becomes immortal?
Why death is enforced upon me?" this is called brahma-jijñāsā, inquiry, "Why?" Therefore there is a Kena Upaniṣad, "Why?" Unless this "why" inquiry comes in the human body, then he is failure. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Whatever we are doing, we are being defeated, because we are doing everything in ignorance. "I am this body." "This is my country." "This is my kinsmen." And in this way I die like cats and dogs.
This one verse He explained in sixty-four ways. Just see His learning. Not only that, when He was sixteen years old only, a great paṇḍita came to Navadvīpa. His name was Keśava Kāśmīrī. He conquered over all parts of the country..., India at least, because there was no possibility to go outside India. But He defeated him in one śloka when He was a boy. So He was not a fool, rascal. That is not the fact. But He represented Himself as a fool because we are fools. In this age we are all fools and rascals. What we shall read Vedānta and understand Vedānta? We have got practical experience how the so-called Vedāntists go to foreign countries and mislead them, and they learn how to eat meat and wine. This is their Vedānta knowledge.
If we keep ourself on the bodily concept of life, and then we are defeated. This is the verdict of the śāstra. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long you are not inquisitive about your Brahman identification, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, then whatever you are doing, that is defeat. That is not advancement. So with these words I shall request you that in your club you cultivate this knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā and utilize your time fully and just try to make your life successful.
Philosophy Discussions
Śyāmasundara: I'm only using it as an example. You said that... You gave a proposal that man is immortal, that John is a man, therefore John is immortal. That's Aristotelian logic, Aristotle's logic.
Prabhupāda: That means his business is to defeat Aristotle's philosophy.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. He says that that kind of reasoning is static, that it...
Prabhupāda: That means he... All right, there are two processes. One is inductive and one is deductive. This is deductive process.
Śyāmasundara: It's a syllogism.
Prabhupāda: Because they will be defeated. Because they will be defeated. They never recognize. That was British policy. Britishers wanted to... That is the cause of degradation of Indian culture. They manufactured such a... Even Dr. Radhakrishnan is a victim of that policy. They wanted to impress upon the Indians that before the arrival of the Britishers we were almost uncivilized: "We have made you civilized." And these rascal leaders, they accepted. That was their policy. Because they are very intelligent people. Lord Macauley (said): "If you keep them as they are, you will never be able to rule over them." And later on also, when Gandhi started that "Noncooperate with these rascals, they will go away. They are by force getting our cooperation and killing us." So noncooperate.
Śyāmasundara: He is going to bring all of his books. And I also studied science for many years, so if I refresh, and if all of the students become armed with these arguments, they can defeat any scientist.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Oh yes.
Śyāmasundara: Normally they are unable to answer scientists. It is difficult to answer scientists for some devotees, because they have such strong arguments.
Prabhupāda: This point should be stressed, that he is dealing with dead bones, and we are dealing with living brains.
Hayagrīva: The government, the American government, arrested, yes. The Tennessee legislature arrested him. He was arrested and defended by Clarence Darrow, famous trial lawyer, and the prosecutor was William Jennings Bryan, who was a thrice defeated Presidential candidate. So they discussed evolution and religion and how they could co-exist, and Scopes, who was teaching Darwinian evolution, claimed, "All men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship almighty God according to the dictates of his own conscience. No human authority can in any case whatever control or interfere with the rights of conscience, and that no preference should ever be given by law to any religious establishment or mode of worship."
Prabhupāda: This is, this worship and the concept of worship, if actually one believes or knows, so the real worship is that which pleases God. If you manufacture... Just like I want a glass of water, and if my servant gives me a glass of hot milk, is that worship?
Prabhupāda: So some intelligent men was going around, "What you are doing, nonsense? You shall fall down." He didn't care, but cutting, he actually fell down. Then, "Oh, you are very intelligent! How did you say? How did you foretold?" Then they saw that he was a first-class fool. So "This boy should be taken to the king's daughter to become her husband." The girl was so intelligent that the challenge was that "Any man who will defeat me in argument, I shall marry." But she was so intelligent that nobody could defeat. So all the learned scholars, the father was asking, "Bring me an intelligent boy to marry her." So they did not find any intelligent boy. Whoever comes, he is defeated. So they decided "Now, because she is so determined to have a very nice husband, we shall make this boy her husband, this fool number one."
Prabhupāda: That is not possible. That is not possible. Even in a dream you are willing so many things. The body is sleeping, completely stopped, but still why you are dreaming? (break) ...does not inquire about his ātma-tattvam, self realization. Whatever he is acting is defeated, parābhava. He is not advancing.
Śyāmasundara: He points out that whenever we gratify our desires, that is so-called happiness, and whenever our desires are frustrated, that is suffering. But our desires are continuously frustrated, they are never satisfied. So he said that we are always suffering, and that the more intelligent a person is, the more he suffers.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Or by suffering, one's intelligence becomes manifested.
Prabhupāda: Well first of all, these men do not know what is religion. That is the defeat. That is their defect, either Marx or Freud of so many so-called philosophers, they do not know what is religion. They have to learn what is religion. Without knowing what is religion, why they are talking of religion and God? They have no knowledge about.
Hayagrīva: He says, "The believer will not let his faith be taken from him, neither by argument nor by prohibitions, and even if it did succeed with some, it would be a cruel thing to do."
Hayagrīva: He feels that a materialistic Western capitalism cannot possibly defeat a pseudoreligion like Marxism. He says that the only way to combat atheistic Communism is for the individual to adopt, to adopt a nonmaterialistic religion.
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It has nothing to do with materialistic "isms." It is directly connect, connected with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. God demands that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām (BG 18.66). So we are teaching that "You, you are servant, but your service is wrongly placed; therefore you are not happy. You place or render the service to Kṛṣṇa, you will be happy." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Just like one man was fighting with another man, and he could not fight, he was going away, going away. The other man challenged, "Why are you going away?" So, "Why not shall I go away? Am I afraid of you? Why should I not go away? Am I afraid of you?" He is going away, he is defeated, still he said that "Why shall I not go? Am I afraid of you?" So this is childish philosophy.
Śyāmasundara: He says that because I have freedom to choose, that makes me susceptible to bad faith, to a condition which he calls bad faith, irresponsibility.
Revatīnandana: It also follows from his philosophy that if somebody defeats him and throws him out, that other person was right.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Revatīnandana: He was wrong.
Prabhupāda: That is right.
Revatīnandana: So his philosophy is very conditional.
Devotee: The antithesis is there in his teaching. He defeated his own instruction in his preface. That's what I was trying to... One thing about Mao's Communism in Russia in its relation to the Soviet Communism is that Soviet Russians are finding that the (indistinct) in a commune is going down because the family life is broken up.
Prabhupāda: Discussing to defeat their philosophy. Because their philosophy is accepted in the world, so we are giving the weak points of that philosophy.
Devotee: When I (indistinct) they simply say I'm dogmatic, but when I defeat them in terms of their own premises, that they have to admit.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That we are doing. We are defeating on their own principles. On principles. Just like we are speaking that Mao thinks that he is not controlled. He should be controller. But he is controlled by heart attack. Then how he can be controller? The same example.
Hayagrīva: Leviathan. It initially referred to a sea monster who was defeated by Yahweh in the Judaic scriptures, and the word can refer to anything large or formidable, like a great sea monster, Leviathan. So Hobbes used the word Leviathan to refer to a ruling body or monarch in a state, and he called this Leviathan a mortal God who is under the immortal God. And this Leviathan or king or monarch would rule the government above the law. Now you discussed this with Śyāmasundara, but Śyāmasundara didn't point out that Hobbes felt that the Leviathan, or ruler, need not obey the law. Now according to the Vedic conception, is the king or the monarch above the law?
Prabhupāda: No. The king is also under the law. King, as we understand from Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa instructed the law to Sun-god, and he followed the laws. Therefore he is, to the common man, he is the supreme.
Purports to Songs
He was beautiful, Gaurasundara. His another name is Gaurasundara, very beautiful boy. And a very learned scholar, Nimāi Paṇḍita. Nobody could defeat Him. And very influential and born of a very high-grade brāhmaṇa family. His father, His grandfather, was very, very learned scholars. So in every way He was very well situated, although the brāhmaṇas are not very rich. They do not care for money. They are interested in knowledge, brahma-jñāna. And if one knows Brahman, then he is brāhmaṇa. Brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ: "Brāhmaṇa means one who knows the Absolute Truth." That is brahma-jñāna. The human life is meant for that purpose, athāto brahma jijñāsā. Everyone should be interested to enquire about Brahman, the Absolute Truth. At least, a class of man must be there in the society.
| Page Title: | Defeat (Lectures, Other) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 05 of Dec, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=80, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 80 |