Pṛthu Putra: He says the concept of Zen is to see spirituality in matter and something material in spirit, in spirituality. That is the concept of Zen, to realize spiritual life according to matter.
Karandhara: What that means... That's just an expression of the idea that everything is ultimately one. You don't have to make value judgments, you shouldn't make value judgments or say one thing is better than the other, that everything is ultimately the same, and the self is also the same as everything. So there's no distinction and there's no objective or conscious awareness of anything because everything is everything.
Yogeśvara: There's no discrimination.
Karandhara: Yes, there's no self. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says in the daily life there is varieties. If something wrong, we do something right. But when we are speaking about spiritual elevated life, everything is one.
Prabhupāda: Yes, when the spirit is gone, then your daily life is also gone. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says yes, for sure, we all die.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore daily life means so long the spirit is there. As soon as the spirit is gone, there is no more daily life. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says but the goal...
Prabhupāda: Has the dead man has any daily life? (French)
Yogeśvara: He says his daily life is just lying in his coffin.
Prabhupāda: That is daily life? That is perpetual life. (chuckles)
Karandhara: No, ask him is death always the solution? If we're in ignorance or we're suffering, when I die, even if I don't attain Zen within this life, when I die, does that solve all the problems? (French)
Prabhupāda: That I said already. The cats and dogs, they are also having the same result without any Zen philosophy. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says death is a part of life. The question is not to die or not to die. He says the question is not to know we are going to get salvation by going to die or not. The important is just life, and the death is part of life. Here and now, what's happening here, in the instant, here, now, that's important for him.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Pṛthu Putra: What is important for him is here and now what he's doing in the instant. He says death is just part of life.
Bhagavān: So what difference does it make if someone becomes religious or if someone becomes a demon? (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says in a demoniac person there is some religiosity, and in a religious person there is some demoniac qualities too.
Bhagavān: Are you a demon? (French)
Pṛthu Putra: As we want.
Prabhupāda: No, so far we know, Lord Buddha is considered as incarnation of God. He was sympathetic with the animal-killing. So he wanted to stop this animal-killing. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says he thinks that Buddha was just a man who was searching how to solve the problems of death and life, and when he got some experience he preached this message.
Karandhara: Yes, the Zen school don't accept the preeminence of the personality of Buddha. They say Buddha is just a state of mind, and various men in history have attained that state of mind, that no one particular man was the Buddha, set apart from everyone else.
Prabhupāda: At least, he set the example before others. That is not wonderful, but he set the example. Therefore he is original Buddha.