Prabhupāda: Particular incident is significant, that Caitanya Mahāprabhu was a brāhmaṇa and He was a sannyāsī. According to social custom He should not touch even a Muhammadan, but this Haridāsa Ṭhākura was a Muhammadan, and at his death He took the body Himself and danced, and He put him in the graveyard and distributed prasādam. And Haridāsa Ṭhākura for two, three days he was feeling not well. Because he was Muhammadan he did not enter the temple of Jagannātha temple. Because the Hindus were very strict. He was devotee, he never mind. Why he should create some row? So Caitanya Mahāprabhu appreciated his behavior that he did not want to create any... Because he has become devotee. Forcibly he was not going to the temple. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu Himself was daily coming and seeing him. While going to take bath in the sea, He'll first of all see Haridāsa. "Haridāsa? What you are doing?" Haridāsa will offer his respect and He will sit and talk for some time. Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu will go to take His bath. In this way, one day when He came He saw Haridāsa not feeling very well. "Haridāsa? How is your health?" "Yes Sir, it is not very... After all, it is body." Then the third day He saw that Haridāsa is going to leave his body today. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked him, "Haridāsa, what do you desire?" Both of them could understand. Haridāsa said that "This is my last stage. If You kindly stand before me." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu stood before him and he left his body.
Daily (Conv. 1967 - 1975)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: The life history of Haridāsa is that he was born in a Muhammadan family. Someway or other he became a devotee and was chanting 300,000 times Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu made him ācārya, the authority of chanting. Therefore we glorify him, "Nāmācārya Haridāsa Ṭhākura ki jaya." Because he was made the ācārya, the authority of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then, when Lord Caitanya took sannyāsa, Haridāsa Ṭhākura desired that "My dear Lord, You are leaving Nabadwip, then what is the use of my life? Either you take me or let me die." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "No. Why shall you die? You come with Me." So He took him to Jagannātha Purī. At Jagannātha Purī, because he considered himself born of Muhammadan family, he did not enter. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu gave him a place at Kāśīnātha Miśra's house and there he was chanting and Caitanya Mahāprabhu's sending him prasādam. In that way he was passing his days. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to come and see him daily, and one day he died like this.
Prabhupāda: They are all. First, second scene, they are all ecstasies. Yes. And the third scene similarly...
Hayagrīva: Wait. He must be in His forties now. This is in His forties.
Prabhupāda: Yes. These ecstasies were going on daily from His age 30th to 48th year.
Hayagrīva: 38 to 48, every day.
Prabhupāda: Not 38. 30th.
Hayagrīva: 30.
Prabhupāda: 30 to 48. 18 years. Sometimes He was chanting, sometimes He was falling, sometimes He was going there. That was His business all 18 years.
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Initiation means formally acceptance of the line of activities in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Before that, before initiation, we invite everyone to come and sit down with us, chant, dance, take prasādam, hear philosophy. And if he understands, "Oh, this is very nice," then he offers himself to be initiated. Then we accept. Then we impose this restriction that "If you want to be initiated..." We get hundreds of letters by everyone who has attended our classes. Daily we are getting some married couples or boys and girls, but most of them are younger. My students are within thirties. The oldest student I have got at the present moment, he is twenty-eight years. No, Kirtanananda is about thirty years old. That's all. So, of course, I do not get any older people. That is nice, hopeful, because younger section, if they take it very seriously, then I have hopes that they will preach in future, even in my absence. And old people, if a man becomes too much accustomed to a certain limited habits, in old age it is very difficult to give it up unless one is extraordinarily intelligent.
Prabhupāda: ...consciousness, the next question. Now, this is the basic principle of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So for attaining Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there are several stages. The first stage is faith or inquisitiveness. Just like you have come to me. This is the first stage, out of inquisitiveness or some faith, that "These people are teaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We have heard it is very nice. Let us see what it is." This is the first stage. This is the first stage. One should be inquisitive and have little faith or little respect for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "It is very nice, they are speaking, doing nice work." This is the first stage. The second stage is that in the first stage, if you find it, it is interesting, then the second stage is to associate with us, to understand more. Just like we are having our classes three days in a week. We are having class morning daily, but for public we are holding classes in the evening from seven to nine in our temple. Perhaps you know. You have been yesterday there? So we are holding classes there and discussing on this book, having kīrtana, distribution of prasādam. So it is very nice.
Mr. Khanvar: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So the florist is given a certain tract of land free, and let him produce flower and make business. But the quantity of flower I require for my temple, he must supply daily. Similarly, the bandsman, he should come and play band. Everything was on land distribution. That was the system. And tax was paid to the government. Not by assessment. Uh, assessment... Whatever your land production is there, you give to the government one-fourth. That's all. If you have produced 1,000 mound grains, you have to give to the government 250 mounds. And if you have produced 100, then you give 25. So there is no question of harassment. Whatever is the production is there... So these profession is accepted from Vedic time, different kinds of men engaged in different kinds of activities. Maybe a florist, maybe a potter, maybe a cobbler, maybe anything, grain producer... So many, society requires so many things. So according to Vedic system, there is a class, and Bhāgavata says that "You are engaged in your occupational duty; so whether you are getting success by such occupational duty?" The Vedic system does not condemn anyone. "You are a potter. Oh, you are lower." No. You are as good as a priest because you are doing your duty. That's all right. Never condemns. This is development of later age when the so-called brāhmaṇas became, I mean to say, treacherous. They began to condemn so-called lower class. There was disruption, the whole social system.
Prabhupāda: So what do you want? Two things are required. Dekha śroṇa(?), seeing and hearing, for gaining knowledge. So he has got knowledge by seeing and hearing, but still... That means the heart is not clear. So this thing will be helpful for clearing the heart. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ (SB 1.2.17). Simply by legal obligation one cannot be purified. You may enact thousands of rules and regulation and laws. You cannot purify the heart of the people. Here is the process to purify the heart of the people. Therefore they should be taken advantage of. Simply by saying that "If you do this, then you'll be punished," nobody cares for that. Just like a child. The parents daily says, "My dear boy, don't do this. This is mischievous." But he does. Just like a dog, animal. Because the heart is not purified. The knowledge is not there. So this is the process for purifying the heart. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). This is the process. So one should take advantage of this process, how to purify the mind, how to purify the heart. Then you will be a perfect personality, perfect man. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. So we don't say that "You change your profession, you change your position or occupation," no. Please come and hear. Please... If you don't chant, please hear. That hearing process also will cure you.
So we shall keep this woman under our custody, and as soon as the child is born we shall kill him. That is our program. We are not going to do any harm to the woman." So Nārada Muni informed that "This child, although he's born of a demon father, he's a great devotee. He's a great devotee, and do not try to kill. Neither you can kill him. This is not possible." But the demigods, they accept the instruction of the authority. Nārada is an authority. So immediately they accepted that "This woman has got a child who is a great devotee." So in order to show respect to the child, they offered their obeisances and circumambulated the mother and they left the woman. They went to their own places. And Nārada advised the wife of Hiraṇyakaśipu, "My dear daughter, you don't worry. I shall give you protection. Your husband has gone away. So long he does not come back, I will give you protection. You come to my āśrama." So he took the woman to his āśrama, and as it is the duty of saintly persons to instruct about God and His activities, so he was daily explaining about God and His activities, and the child was hearing from the womb of his mother. The mother was anxious to give protection to the child, but the child was fortunate that he was hearing directly from the Nārada.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. The battlefield is still existing, Kurukṣetra. Yes. It is about hundred..., about within two hundred miles from Delhi. It is not far off. That, my red tape recorder is not replaced. Is it very costly now?
Devotee: I think so. Yeah. About five hundred dollars.
Prabhupāda: Five hundred dollars, that may be Japanese. The original is English.
Devotee: Oh, English? I thought it was German. English?
Prabhupāda: Yes. German or English. That is eight hundred dollars. It was very nice. Yes. I therefore used to keep daily in my compartment. I didn't allow to leave it here. How you are feeling, Jadurāṇī? All right? So I think we shall chant little Hare Kṛṣṇa and close this meeting.
Prabhupāda: There are descriptions. There are descriptions of these things. There is description of another nature which is called spiritual nature. This is material nature. The sky, as far as you can see, this is one universe. Similarly, there are millions of universes. And all these together, that is material sky. And beyond that, there is spiritual sky, which is far, far greater than this. And there are spiritual planets. So this information we have got from Bhagavad-gītā, what to speak of other Vedic literatures. Bhagavad-gītā, it is daily read by practically all over the world, but they do not understand it. Simply they become student of Bhagavad-gītā, or simply just to think falsely that "I am God." That's all. But they don't take any particular information. There is a verse in the Eighth Chapter, paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). There is another nature beyond this material nature which is eternal. This nature is coming into existence, again dissolution. But that nature is eternal. These things are there. Similarly, there, planets are also eternal. There, living entities, they are also eternal. That is called sanātana. Sanātana means eternal, without any end, without any beginning. But this nature, as we have, this body has got a beginning and it has end, similarly anything, this cosmic nature has a beginning and it has an end. So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is how to transfer our self to that nature, eternal nature.
Prabhupāda: Because these Christian people, they are not teaching them practically. I am teaching them practically.
Journalist: In other words, you're teaching them what you feel is a practical, every day, daily method of obtaining this fulfillment of man's spirit.
Prabhupāda: Yes. How to... The love of Godhead is being taught by Bible or Old Testament and Gītā, that is all right. But you are not teaching them how to love God. I am teaching them how to love God. That is the difference. Therefore young people are attracted.
Journalist: All right. So the end is the same. It's the method of getting there.
Prabhupāda: Not method. You are not at all following. Even the method is there. Just as I say, the method is there, "don't kill," and you are killing.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Śrīmad-bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇam. You have got Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Read very carefully. All these things are already explained there. Cut it into pieces and distribute.
Devotee: Swamiji? Should we read just one chapter a day or...
Prabhupāda: It is very nice if you read one chapter Bhāgavatam daily. It is very nice. You make it a point to read one chapter daily. That is very nice.
Devotee: No more?
Prabhupāda: No, if you can do more, that's all right. Just like I ask everybody to chant 16 rounds. But if you can chant 1600 rounds, then who prohibits you? You can do that. But we should make a regulation of our life, that "So many times I chant. One chapter I shall read. I shall go to the temple at this time." In this way we must have routine work. Then we'll get practiced automatically. Yes. And Gosvāmīs, the Six Gosvāmīs, they were following routine work. Even they... Sāṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ. They were doing regularly counting. Just like you are counting sixteen rounds. Not only chanting in that counting, but they were offering obeisances also by counting, that "Hundred times I shall offer my obeisances." You see? This is regular routine. Yes.
Prabhupāda: 108. So at least 108 flowers we'll have daily. Yes. So it is very nice. Our Hawaii, tulasi grows very nice.
Haṁsadūta: Hawaii. They have a new place?
Prabhupāda: Yes, the place where now Govinda dāsī is staying, a very nice place, just on the seaside. And the house is two stories, entire house among the fig trees. There is nice arrangement. So you have any correspondence with her?
Jadurāṇī: A little.
Prabhupāda: So what does she say?
Jadurāṇī: She said the flowers weren't out yet, but that was months ago. We have some mail for you. One letter is from her with up-to-date news.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Some devotees are coming. And in Honolulu, two boys, they are also doing. In Hawaii there are two branches now. Yes. One at Honolulu, one at Kauai. Kauai. That island's name is Oahu. Hawaii has five islands' stretch, and this is called Oahu. Oahu island, one side, Honolulu, and one side... This island means hill. And the valley of the hills are utilized for residential purposes. So all sides, Pacific Ocean. And there is ample production of sugar cane and pineapple. I was chewing sugar cane as it is. Yes. And there is so many coconut trees, palm trees, and mango. In mango season they throw away mangos. So I have asked Govinda dāsī that "You make mango pulp and dry it and send it." So they are doing nice, husband and wife, Gaurasundara, yes, trying their best. I do not know whether they are working now.
Haṁsadūta: I'll try in Montreal. We have new devotees now, lot of new boys.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Oh, you will get devotees. You just begin saṅkīrtana party. You will get many devotees. You see? In Los Angeles, daily the devotees, new devotees, are coming, and very nice boys. We are now searching after a bigger place. Yes. That temple is not sufficient, although that is the biggest center of all our centers. It has got compound. It has got parking place. It has got two big halls, one big room, one big kitchen, and three, four, five small rooms. It is a nice situation, you see, just suitable for our purpose. And they decorate Jagannātha very nicely. Yes. So increase centers. And what is the name of the boy who went to... Nanda-rūpa(?). He wants to open Toronto?
Haṁsadūta: In Toronto. Toronto is a very good place to go.
Prabhupāda: So let him open.
Allen Ginsberg: No, it doesn't mean that I am not.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You do not remember, that is not reason. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Allen Ginsberg: Yeah.
Prabhupāda:
- dehino 'smin yathā dehe
- kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
- tathā dehāntara-prāptir
- dhīras tatra na muhyati
- (BG 2.13)
Because I do not remember what I did in my mother's womb, that does not mean that I had no a little body. The body is change, I am there. Therefore, I change this body I will remain. This is common sense business. I am changing my body daily every moment. Your childhood body and this body is not the same. You have changed your body, but that does not mean you have, you are different person.
Allen Ginsberg: But I'm wondering what future is there? What's the future of a religious observance so technical as this? So complicated as this? Requires so much sophistication in terms of diet, daily ritual, ārati, ekādaśī, all, the whole thing that you've been teaching, how far can that spread by it's very complexness...
Prabhupāda: Yes. All are complex. The whole idea is to keep the devotees always engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the program. Gradually, we shall introduce more and more so that he has no scope to go outside Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Allen Ginsberg: Well, the orthodox Jews have a very heavy, complicated, moment by moment ritual daily existence in that, for that same purpose. It was to keep them conscious of their religious nature. And that has maintained a small group of Jews over the centuries as an integral unit, but has tended to disappear in the later generations now simply because modern life does not allow that much Kṛṣṇa consciousness or Jewish consciousness or religious consciousness and attention, act by act throughout the day. So my question is how far can total Kṛṣṇa devotion, act by act all day, spread? How many people can that encompass in a place like America? Or are you intending only to get a few devotees, like several hundred or a thousand who will be solid and permanent.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is my program. Because Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not possible for everyone. Because in the Bhagavad-gītā we learn, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). After many, many births one can come to this. So it is not possible that a mass of people, a large quantity of people will be able to grasp it. You see? Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). Another place it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). After many thousands of men, one may be interested how to liberate himself. And out of many such liberated persons, one may understand what is Kṛṣṇa. So understanding of Kṛṣṇa is not very easy thing. But Lord Caitanya is so munificent that He has given us a, I mean to say, easy process. (indistinct) Otherwise Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not easy. Because Kṛṣṇa is the last word of Absolute Truth.
Allen Ginsberg: Mere chanting without the practice of a philosophy and a daily ritual...
Prabhupāda: Philosophy is there. We are teaching Bhagavad-gītā. We are talking on Bhāgavata philosophy, we are talking on Caitanya's philosophy.
Allen Ginsberg: And you have a daily ritual.
Prabhupāda: We are distributing papers. And... Everything is there.
Allen Ginsberg: Okay. So my question then, as it was originally when you first asked me, what do I think...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Allen Ginsberg: Is the Caitanya-Kṛṣṇa ritual, as you have it here in this house and in the other āśramas, is that something that a large mass of people can enter into?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not?
Allen Ginsberg: In America?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because we have seen. All my students are Americans. So it has to be... And it is spreading.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...first speak in detail about Ṭhākura Haridāsa's disappearance. So tell me maybe how you want it to be performed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ṭhākura Haridāsa was living in a cottage which was... Just like I am living here, and the garage site a little far off, Haridāsa was living a little distance. So when Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to go to the sea for taking bath, He every day, every morning He used to go to Haridāsa Ṭhākura and taking his informa..., "Haridāsa, what you are doing?" Because Haridāsa was Mohammedan by birth, so out of his meekness he did not go to the temple. But in those... Especially in those days they were very strict. They do not allow anyone except Hindus to enter the temple. Nowadays, of course, there is law. If somebody is, actually has come to the Hindu way of life, he's allowed. Our Jayagovinda and others were allowed to see Jagannātha temple. But in those days there were no such system and Haridāsa out of his own accord, he did not want to disturb. But Lord Caitanya, God Himself, used to come to see him every day. So one day when Caitanya came, he looked little bit depressed. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked him, "Haridāsa, you do not look very well today. What is the matter?" "Sir, I'm not very feeling well. And because I do not feel well, I could not finished my chanting." He was chanting daily 300,000 times. "So I could not finish my chanting."
Prabhupāda: Now, I heard that you are composing fifty pages daily, altogether?
Jayadvaita: No, not fifty pages. The manuscript pages, yesterday we composed about forty manuscript pages.
Prabhupāda: Correct, all? Complete?
Jayadvaita: Yes. The original... It's done twice. So those first pages, the first time, they'd already been done.
Prabhupāda: No, no. These forty pages, they are complete?
Jayadvaita: Yes. They are complete.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. That is encouraging. So even if you complete thirty pages daily, that will be very nice.
Prabhupāda: Accha. Then you get easily not less than thirty pages daily, complete. That will satisfy. Is that all right?
Jayadvaita: That's all right.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then our books are, biggest book, four hundred pages. So thirty pages daily means, what is that? Within fifteen days you can complete.
Jayadvaita: Thirty manuscript pages, thirty book pages?
Prabhupāda: Thirty book pages. No. Or what is the manuscript pages? I do not understand.
Jayadvaita: When it's typed out, we've been doing about...
Prabhupāda: I want complete for being photographed.
Jayadvaita: Yes.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So there was no money with me and in an awkward position... My philosophy is completely different. I was to ask them to cease from four kinds of sinful activities, and they are habituated to these things. Illicit sex, and drinking, wine and intoxication and gambling—these are their daily affairs. So I was thinking, "I have to stop this. Who will hear me?" But Kṛṣṇa... Everything became...
Guest (1): May I ask one thing. How you chose this America to be your first...?
Prabhupāda: My Guru Mahārāja ordered me that "You go and preach this cult amongst the English speaking public and specially in the western countries." So first of all I thought of London, where is London, but I had no money. So I got the opportunity for going U.S.A. free on the, on a trade ship by the Scindia Steam Navigation. They gave me their first-class cabinet, the proprietor's cabinet. I was well carried. But first of all I went free on a steamship. I had no money, what to speak of aeroplane.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. That doesn't matter. Let him pay by installments.
Guest (6): I told him I will ask you, whether you are ready or not.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi)
Guest (6): He is coming daily, that man.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Mr. Chakravarti or Chatterjee. Yes.
Guest (6): Chatterjee. He is scared of people.(?)
Prabhupāda: He is good boy. Yes. No. He had the cap on his head, sweater, cap and pant.
Guest (6): Yesterday he was asking me to ask you.
Prabhupāda: Where is my stick? Give me a glass of water. (break)
Guest (6): I am ready to pay installments.
Prabhupāda: Then there is no problem. You come and join me. If you want...
Guest (6): Let me get degree.
Prabhupāda: You get your degree. That's all right. Finish your education. If I'll be able to open a center, nice center, I shall call so many people, "Come and live with me and be trained up." I am just writing one advertisement. We shall have to publish it. Just read it.
Prabhupāda: Tiṣṭhāmi. That's it. Therefore a devotee's position is sublime. Kṛṣṇa comes as a devotee also. Actually this happened. Haridāsa Ṭhākura, he happened to be a Mohammedan, Lord Caitanya's devotee. So in those days, five hundred years ago, there was some Hindu-Muslim... Still that is going on. So he did not enter Jagannātha temple to create some disturbance. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also did not ask him that "You go to Jagannātha temple. Who can check you?" Of course, if Caitanya Mahāprabhu had ordered, he would have gone. Neither he wanted to go, neither Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "You must go." Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to come to him. Tatra tiṣṭhāmi nārada yatra gāyanti mad-bhaktāḥ. This is the practical. He came to the devotee where he was chanting. So instead of approaching God, if you chant, God will approach you. That is a fact, we see. Instead of Haridāsa Ṭhākura going to Jagannātha, Jagannātha Himself was coming to him. Every day Lord Caitanya would come and ask and sit down, "How you are feeling? What you are doing?" Then He would go to take bath in Samudra. Daily. It was Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... And when Haridāsa Ṭhākura expired, He personally took the body and cremated on the bank of the Samudra and he performed the funeral ceremony. Haridāsa Ṭhākura was so... And he was given the title nāmācārya, "authority of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra." Very nice that you are cultivating this knowledge. It is very nice. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). This cultivation of spiritual knowledge means perfection of life. But people do not try for it. Therefore Gītā says, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu: "Out of many thousands of men, one may try to cultivate knowledge for spiritual advancement." And yatatām api siddhānāṁ: (BG 7.3) "Out of many such persons who are cultivating spiritual knowledge, hardly one can understand what is Kṛṣṇa."
Haṁsadūta: But the articles that will be in the newspaper, they will be exactly like other newspapers? Who will write them?
Prabhupāda: No, articles... Daily newspaper means there must be news. News you can purchase from the news collecting company. They will supply it. At very cheap price they'll supply. And you take advertisement. Yes. You'll cover your expenses by getting advertisements and make sufficient profit. Newspaper starting is not a losing business provided you can organize. Just like ordinary newspaper, they give... In daily news... People want to learn daily news, and they supply huge quantity. And those who are advertiser, they are simply concerned how many copies are issued. If you issue 100,000's of copies, then you can charge for each page thousand dollars. They will pay. Two thousand dollars they will pay.
Haṁsadūta: That means in each city we would we have to have our own local press.
Prabhupāda: No, not necessarily. You can arrange with any newspaper place. You simply supply your matter; they will print. Just like we are getting from Japan, similarly, make your own layout and supply them. Immediately, within two hours, everything is complete.
Haṁsadūta: But a daily newspaper has to turn out daily, so it takes time to transport it from one city to another city.
Prabhupāda: Well, from every city we can publish. Every city there is a newspaper place.
Prabhupāda: The story is a mouse came to a saintly person: "Sir, I am in trouble. If you kindly release me?" "What is that trouble?" "A cat, they are after me. I am always at risk of life." "So what do you want?" "You also make me a cat." "All right. You become a cat." Then again he came. "Sir, again the complaint is here." "What is that?" "Dogs are chasing me." "Then what do you want?" "I want to become a dog." "All right. You become a dog." In this way he came up to the tiger by the benediction of the... And when he became a tiger, he was... (snarling sound-laughter) Just like our Brahmānanda Prabhu. "All right. Again become mouse." You see? So these civilization is like that. They became tiger, and they are so much badly trained up that they have to become again a mouse. That is the way. That is the way of nature. If you don't improve yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you again become stool worms. The human form of life is an opportunity to come out of the cycle of birth and death, but if one does not take—these are the statements in Padma Purāṇa—then he loses the chance. They do not know what is life, how life is rotating, talking nonsense, "I am God. Why Kṛṣṇa should be God? This is written by man." How much low-graded people have become. They are completely under the laws of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14), stringent laws of nature, and still, they are claiming, "I am God. I am this. I am that. I am free. I am..." And they do not mind, even they are degraded to the position of the worm of stool. But there is possibility. What is this worm of stool? It is also living entity. It is not a different thing. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). One who knows, he knows that the worm of stool and Brahmā are the same living entity. Simply under different reaction of karma one has become Brahmā and another has become the stool worm. Now we begin. (break) It is not difficult. Simply the layout should be sent to different parts, and they will make immediately plate, and that will be paper. Daily you have to send it.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to learn what is the birth of Kṛṣṇa. You do not know. Janma karma me divyam yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). You do not know what is the birth. You are thinking that He is, like ordinary man He has taken birth. Otherwise why does He say, janma karma me divyam yo jānāti tattvataḥ? Nobody knows what is His birth? He thinks He's... Just like a child sees daily that the sun rises from the eastern side—therefore eastern side is the father of sun. Is eastern side father of the sun? Sun is always there, but you see in the morning it is appearing from the eastern side. That's all. It is your angle of vision, not that sun is born, taking birth from the eastern side. Sun is always there in the sky. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is always there but to the foolish person it appears that He is born. Ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā. Ajo 'pi: "I have no birth." Ajaḥ. This very word is used. Ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san. So how you can compare Kṛṣṇa's birth like ordinary birth? If anyone knows what is Kṛṣṇa's birth he becomes liberated. Janma karma me divyam yo jānāti tattvataḥ. So that knowledge is not tattvataḥ knowledge, that Kṛṣṇa's birth. Kṛṣṇa's birth is every moment. Just like sun. Now here it is not sunshine but in another place the sunshine is rising.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Or both. You might get both.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I have seen, they have spoken like that. Because the patient will think, "Oh, I take injection, I'll be very quickly cured." He will canvass like that. Because if he gives a bottle of medicine, that will not be very costly. But injection in his hand, he'll (have) at least five rupees, that much. So he'll canvass like that, "What kind of treatment you want, injection or ordinary medicine." So he'll say, "Sir, best medicine I want." "Then you take injection." That's all. It is a fact that the whole human civilization is a society of cheaters and cheated. That's all. Any field. mayaiva vyavaharite. The whole world in this Kali-yuga: mayaiva vyavaharite. Vyavaharite means ordinary dealings, there will be cheating. Ordinarily, there will be cheating. Daily affairs. Not to speak of very great things. Ordinary dealings, there will be cheating. That is stated in the Bhāgavata, mayaiva vyavahari. The sooner you get out of this scene is better. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So long you live, you simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and preach Kṛṣṇa's glories, and that's all. Otherwise, you should know that this is a dangerous place. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ (SB 10.14.58). In every step there is danger.
Devotee: What is charka?
Prabhupāda: Yes, spinning. Because he was spinning daily. Just like you are chanting sixteen rounds, he was spinning sixteen rounds. (laughter) And he said frankly, "Are you spinning charka?" They said, "No sir." "Oh, then I am not going there. My god is charka." That is practical. We have got experience. And actually he was refusing. Just like we are insisting, "You must chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra sixteen rounds," he was... There were so many charkas daily selling. People took it very seriously. We also took charka and that, what is called?
Devotee: Handloom.
Prabhupāda: Handloom. And there was very good business. So many charkas and that handloom was sold in the shops because everyone was purchasing and purchasing. And they were stacked and thrown away some time after. So... Because Mahatma Gandhi asked, everyone did. You see? So he also asked our maṭha people that "Are you spinning a charka?" They said, "No, sir." "Then I am not going." He refused the invitation. Does it mean he surrendered to Kṛṣṇa? He surrendered to charka. That's all. (laughter) And if you say, "Charka is also Kṛṣṇa," oh, there will be no more argument. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: So this Canakya Paṇḍita was a great politician and brāhmaṇa. And as brāhmaṇa, he was vastly learned. He has got some moral instruction. They're very valuable, still going on. In India school children are taught. So this Canakya Paṇḍita, although he was prime minister, he maintained his brahminical spirit. He was not accepting any salary, yes, because for brāhmaṇas to accept salary, it is understood that he becomes a dog. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata. He can advise, but he cannot accept. So he was living in a cottage, but he was prime minister. So this brahminical culture, the brahminical brain, is the standard of Vedic civilization. Just like Manu-smṛti. Manu-smṛti... You do not know. You cannot trace out the history, when Manu-smṛti was written. But Manu-smṛti is considered so perfect that it is the Hindu law. The Hindus are governed by Manu-smṛti. There was no need of passing daily a new law by the legislative assembly to adjust this social order. You see? The law given by Manu was so perfect that it can be applicable for all the time. This is perfect. Tri-kāla-jñāḥ. The word is there, tri-kāla-jñāḥ, past, present, future.
Prof. Kotovsky: ...because of influx of refugees from Bangladesh.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But we had our saṅkīrtana festival for ten days, and people participated very wonderfully. We... Our gathering was not less than thirty thousand people daily, and they are so much interested in hearing about our... Lecture things, we are lecturing from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Bhagavad-gītā. We are... Our preaching method is on the basis of Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So people are responding from every part of the world, especially the American boys. They are especially interested. And England also, and Germany, and France. From here I shall go to Paris. There we have got center. What is the name of that place? Paris? Recently they have taken.
Prabhupāda: Now, who is not drinking water? The taste of water is Kṛṣṇa, so who has not seen Kṛṣṇa? They say, "Can you show me God?" If you don't see God, then who will show you? Here is God. You are drinking water. Here is God, sunshine. Those who cannot see Kṛṣṇa is God... Because to see Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality God, it requires many, many thousands of years tapasya to understand Kṛṣṇa. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). After many, many births, one can understand Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is not so easy. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). Out of many thousands of men, one may be interested how to make this life perfect. And those who actually attain perfection, out of many thousands of them, one can understand Kṛṣṇa. So to understand Kṛṣṇa is not easy job, easy job. So one who has understood "Here is Kṛṣṇa with Rādhārāṇī; let me serve," that position is very exalted position. That is not ordinary position. But one who is unfortunate not to come to that position to understand Kṛṣṇa, for them Kṛṣṇa is giving the prescription you see here. You drink water, the taste, now just think, "Here is Kṛṣṇa." In this way, if you think of Kṛṣṇa in your daily activities, then one day you will be able to understand what is Kṛṣṇa. Actually, Kṛṣṇa is everything because whatever... This table is also Kṛṣṇa because it is a manifestation of Kṛṣṇa's energy. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ mano khaṁ buddhir eva ca (BG 7.4). What is the ingredient of this table? Earth, water, air, fire. Kṛṣṇa says, "That is My manifestation of My energy."
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Recently I was in India. I held two meetings continued for ten days everywhere, and 20 to 30 thousand people were attending daily. So India's position is that they are naturally Kṛṣṇa conscious, but at the present moment by the so-called leaders, they want to replace this Kṛṣṇa consciousness into material consciousness.
Interviewer: Is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness belief or philosophy compatible with the Hindu religion which...
Prabhupāda: With any religion.
Interviewer: Beg your pardon?
Prabhupāda: Any religion. Because God is one. It is the science of God. The "two plus two equal to four," it is understood by everyone. It is not that it is to be understood by the Christian, not by the Hindus. "Two plus two equal to four" is a fact for everyone. Similarly God is fact for everyone. Now how to love God. This is the only process. That is.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Recently, I was in India. I held two meetings, I mean continued for ten days, everywhere, and twenty to thirty thousand people were attending daily. The India's position is that they're naturally Kṛṣṇa conscious, but, at the present moment, by the so-called leader, they want to replace this Kṛṣṇa consciousness into material consciousness.
Interviewer: Is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness belief or philosophy compatible with the Hindu religion, which is...
Prabhupāda: Any religion.
Interviewer: Beg your pardon?
Prabhupāda: Any religion.
Interviewer: Any religion.
Prabhupāda: Because God is one. It is a science of God. If two plus two equal to four, it is understood by everyone. It is not that it is to be understood by the Christian, not by the Hindus. Two plus two equal to four is a fact for everyone. Similarly, God is a fact for everyone. Now, how to love God, this is the only process. That is.
Prabhupāda: Because so many devotees are coming daily.
Interviewer: So many? You say so many. You know, we have maybe, what, two dozen people sitting here. But of course there are...
Prabhupāda: We have got sixty centers.
Interviewer: ...205 or 210 million Americans.
Prabhupāda: But you cannot, when you sell diamonds, you cannot expect everyone will purchase. There must be bona fide customer for diamond. You cannot expect diamond is sold among mass of people. You cannot expect it.
Prabhupāda: So, why not negotiate that?
Śyāmasundara: Daily they'll come and then gradually become devotees.
Prabhupāda: No, among the young men there is hankering after this sort of an institution. Everyone asks me, "Why the younger generation is attracted to this movement?" so many reporters. So somehow or other, I reply, "The young men, they're receptive, they can understand the value, whereas the old fools cannot." (laughing)
Mr. Arnold: Well, my wife and I, we can. We're old.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) You are excepted. You are excepted. Sometimes old men are called old fools. (laughing)
Mr. Arnold: My wife is twice..., she's older that I am, and she's made me return because sometimes I've lost my temper with, over, you know, various things that happen...
Prabhupāda: The thing is that you are liberal to understand things as they are. But generally, old men, they are sophisticated. They do not like to accept anything new: "Go away." Or they are not serious about religion. That is another thing. Actually..., as I see that old, older section, they have been habituated in a different way, so they do not want to change (indistinct). That is the difference. So "Here is a nice thing; you should accept it." They are not inclined in that way. All stereotyped.
Dr. Weir: I was saying that fear prevents it.
Prabhupāda: No. There's no prevention. There's no fear because they are quite at liberty to ask me question and they're asking and the answer is there. I receive so many letters daily. So they have no... They are not afraid of me. But, out of affection, they offer respect.
Dr. Weir: May I make one strange statement that I think it is rather true of present world. People are always afraid of fear and love. It's almost as though it's something sissy or, you know, to get so mixed up with sentimentality.
Mensa Member: I don't know if it is rather than fear.
Dr. Weir: Well I mean... If you don't know. If I were afraid of you because of absolute knowledge or...
Mensa Member: Yaḥ.
Dr. Weir: ...terrified of the unknown.
Mensa Member: That's very true. That's why (indistinct) children (indistinct) and such like and things like the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement who not only (indistinct) philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Just like the child is afraid of the father. There is affection. My father is displeased that I do... Father has says, "Don't touch this." So I don't touch. My father has... So that fear and affection, both is there. It is not simply that he is afraid of his father but the affection is there. So to become obedient to the authority, there is a tinge of fear also but that is based on affection.
Prabhupāda: There was a story that the priest was describing about the hell, so they did not respond. But when he said, "There is no newspaper," then, "Oh, it is horrible." (laughter) Other conditions—that it is dark, it is very moist, and so many things described. But they were miners, they know that these things are happening daily, so what is the wrong in the hell? Then he stressed, "There is no newspaper." Then they will, "Oh, it is horrible." (laughter) So, according to one's taste the hellish conditions should described.
Devotee (3): And according to one's taste the heavenly conditions can be described also because Kṛṣṇa is all-attractive.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It seems that just like a mother when she is training her young child, because the child is very young and not yet very advanced in intelligence, sometimes the mother uses the method of fear to train her child. So similarly, according to the consciousness of the people the doctrine of love of God has to sometimes be preached with a little element of fear so that they'll accept it.
Prabhupāda: That creation of fearfulness may be sometimes not fact but fearfulness is there according to our actions. That everyone has got experience. Just like if you steal, then you go to jail. It is a fact. It is not a creation of fearfulness. It is a fact. If you contaminate some disease, then the typhoid or any other disease, you contaminate. So there is suffering and that is really fearfulness, that is not a false creation. So sometimes there are false creation, but actually for our misdeeds we have to suffer, that's a fact.
Prabhupāda: But one thing is we sing daily, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo **. You have to please your spiritual master. But yasyāprasādān na gatiḥ kuto 'pi, if you displease your spiritual master then you are nowhere. How do you adjust these things? It does not mean that because you have made somebody spiritual master, you displease him, at the same time he takes responsibility. Is it very nice?
Devotee (5): Many times...
Prabhupāda: If you please him, then he is responsible. Yasyāprasādān na gatiḥ kuto 'pi. If you displease him then you are nowhere. So, if you take it in this way, that my spiritual master has taken responsibility so whatever nonsense I do, it doesn't matter. The Christians are thinking like that. Jesus Christ has taken contract for all our sinful activities, so we can do anything, whatever we like. But that is not the fact. If one takes responsibility for you, you must abide by his order. Otherwise how is that, that he simply takes responsibility and you don't abide by his order? It is reciprocal. But the Christians are thinking, "Because we have taken to Christian religion, now we are safe. We can do anything we like and Lord Jesus Christ will compensate. He'll be every time crucified and we can go on doing all nonsense." Is it not? Then? That's not a very good idea. This is, as Viśvanātha Cakravartī said, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo **. If you please your spiritual master, then God will be pleased. If you don't please him, then you are nowhere. So first of all you please Jesus Christ, that is reasonable, then he takes the responsibility. If you disobey Jesus Christ in every step, what is his responsibility? That is a misconception.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Why follow? It is a fact. (Bob laughs) Your hairs are growing daily. Why? Because you have got some energy.
Bob: The energy I obtain from my food.
Prabhupāda: Somehow or other, you have obtained that energy. And through that energy your hairs are growing. So if your body is manufactured by your energy, similarly, the whole gigantic manifestation is made of God's energy. It is a fact it is not your energy.
Bob: Yeah. O.K. I see that.
Śyāmasundara: Just like, aren't the planets in this universe the sun's energy, a product of the sun's energy?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But who produced the sun? That is Kṛṣṇa's energy. Because it is heat, and Kṛṣṇa says, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Analaḥ, analaḥ, heating. "That is My energy." The sun is representation of the heating energy of Kṛṣṇa. It is not your energy. You cannot say that "The sun is made by me." But somebody must have made. And Kṛṣṇa says. So we believe therefore Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we are Kṛṣṇa-ites.
Prabhupāda: He supplies everything. Everyone, actually He's supplying. He's supplying food to everyone. So He's father. So why should you not pray, "Father, give me this"? Just like in Christian Bible there is, "Father, give us our daily bread." That is good, they are accepting the Supreme Father. But grown-up children, they should not ask from the father, but they should be prepared to serve the father. That is bhakti.
Bob: My questions you solve so nicely. (Mild laughter)
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much.
Prabhupāda: I am asking. You daily ask me; I am asking you today.
Bob: Okay, yes. (laughs) I'll think for a moment.
Śyāmasundara: Shall I turn this off, this fan? It's cool now.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. No, he'll do. Where is Nanda Kumāra? He can do. (break) ...is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, er, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The exact Sanskrit word for liberation is called mukti. So that mukti is defined in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: muktir hitvānyathā rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). One should stop doing all nonsense, and he must be situated in his original position. But this is also more embarrassing because nobody knows what is his original position. And how to act properly. Muktir hitvānyathā rūpam. People are generally acting differently. But they do not know what is differently and what is properly. So much ignorant are the modern population about their life. It is very, very awkward position. They do not know.
Prabhupāda: Then a thief is feeling that "I must steal to provide my children. It is right." Does it mean that he's honest? Everyone thinks... The butcher, he thinks, "It is my life. I must cut throat of the animals daily." Just like that, what is that, vyādha, vyādha... When Nārada Muni met him?
Devotee: Oh, Mṛgāri.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Mṛgāri. "Why you are killing in this way?" "Oh, it is my business. My father taught it." So he was honestly doing that. So feeling of honesty depends on different culture. A thief's culture is different. He thinks stealing is honesty.
Bob: So what is honesty?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is my question. (laughter) Real honesty is that you should not encroach upon other's property. This is honesty. Just like this is my table. If you want to take it away while going, is that honesty? No. So therefore the simple definition of honesty is that you should not encroach upon other's right. That is honesty.
Prabhupāda: Not the Bharatratna. Another daily paper.
Bhūrijana: South China Morning Paper.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. So the article is nice. So one thing is that we are simply interested for a temporary object, but we are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). We do not die. We simply change bodies. Just like these children, they are changing bodies from babyhood to childhood, from childhood to youthhood, the changing bodies. The final change is called death. That means, final change means, giving up this body, we accept again another babyhood body, again begin. This is going on. And this is called māyār bośe, jāccho bhese. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). We are being washed away by the waves of māyā. We are forced to accept a certain type of body, again give it up, again forced to, under 8,400,000 species of life. We do not know, next life what kind of body we are going to get. People should be careful about this. But they are simply interested with this short duration of life, say fifty years or hundred years. But they do not... There is no education, there is no university, that "Everyone is eternal. He should not be engaged only the changing phases of life. One should be interested in the eternal interest of life." This is our mission, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: You cannot expect many disciples, but still, there are two thousand. Because I have got so many conditions and the fact is so difficult to understand, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They have forgotten Kṛṣṇa, they have forgotten God, and I am trying to make them Kṛṣṇa conscious. It is a very difficult job. I have to shed my blood three tons before I make one convinced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is my experience. I have to talk with him, especially these Europeans and Americans. They do not accept anything so blindly. They try to... I am always being questioned, even in my tooth(?) Question, question, question. That's nice. Inquisitive, they want to know. So I give them answers. I have got four secretaries always with me. They are giving answers. So to become Kṛṣṇa... Especially in Europe and America, when I make this condition that you cannot have illicit sex, you cannot have intoxication, you cannot meat eat, er, you cannot eat meat, you cannot have gambling... This is their daily affair. This is their life. Even Lord Zetland refused, "Oh, we cannot give up these things." So I am controlling them in this way. Still, they are coming. So it is very difficult job. Still, there are many thousands, and they are so sincere that if I ask them that... This boy is going to Red China. I am sending him. You see? So I have asked them, "You go there. You go there." They go even at the risk of life. Yes. It is the duty of the Indians to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, but they are preaching very nicely. I am training these foreigners.
Prabhupāda: So there I began to write books, and then when three books were finished I started for America. And there also I wrote many books, dozens of books. You have seen our books. Our Kṛṣṇa Book is selling like anything in Europe and America. We are practically maintaining ourself by selling books. We have got our book sale all over the world, about twenty to 25,000 rupees daily and we have to spend seven to eight lakhs of rupees monthly. In Los Angeles alone we spend $20,000 per month. In New York we spend $10,000 per month.
Guest (1): Doing what? How do you spend it?
Prabhupāda: We have to maintain our establishment, the temple, the Deity, so many devotees. In each center we have got at least twenty-five devotees. At the most two hundred devotees. So their living costs, everything, by some way or other, Kṛṣṇa is giving us. But we have no fixed income; neither we have any bank balance.
Guest (1): In the minds of some people the sudden attraction of Western youth to Eastern religions...
Prabhupāda: No. It is not Eastern. That is a wrong conception. God is for everybody. Eastern people, when I speak of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they say, "What is this Kṛṣṇa? We know Kṛṣṇa. What we have to learn from Swamiji?" "Familiarity breeds contempt." But in the Western countries when we speak of Kṛṣṇa, they see the philosophy. They see the science and become attracted. We, in the very beginning, we neglect: "Oh, what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" Otherwise there is no question of Western or Eastern. Kṛṣṇa is for everyone. Kṛṣṇa is neither Western, neither Eastern. But Eastern, our, especially Indians, they have learned to reject. That is their education: immediately reject it. This is their new culture, to reject everything.
Prabhupāda: So you keep it in this envelope. Then I shall see.
Śyāmasundara: They have purchased $8,000 worth of equipment for recording your voice.
Prabhupāda: Oh. That will be very nice. So I can give lectures daily? No. What is the arrangement?
Karandhara: Yes. As soon as you come, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we're going to shoot the first TV show.
Śyāmasundara: You have a video tape machine here?
Prabhupāda: Now, if I explain some of... Just like I explain one verse. In this way, if I do explain one verse, do you think it will be all right? No.
Śyāmasundara: Each day explain one verse.
Prabhupāda: Each day or as you like. Or what is your program?
Karandhara: Well, as far as this recording, we have a studio right there in the temple. You could record...
Prabhupāda: You distribute that prasādam, little, everyone.
Sudāmā: So we should take the Deity prasādam and our prasādam and go to all the houses?
Prabhupāda: No no. You invite them, that "Anyone, you are welcome. Take prasādam." We can announce. Then you can judge how many people are coming daily. You should announce that "Anyone can come and take prasādam at noon." It is the duty of a gṛhastha to loudly cry, "If anyone is hungry, please come. We have got still food." That is the duty of a gṛhastha. If one does not come, then the chief of the house, he takes prasāda. If somebody says, "I am hungry," so he should offer his own food. "You eat." This is duty of gṛhastha. Bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanti. Those who are cooking for themselves, they are simply eating sinful things. That's all. Bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt (BG 3.13). So hospitality is one of the duties of the householder. Atithi. Atithi means guest without any information. That is called atithi. Tithi means date. So if I go to your house, I inform you that "Such and such date I am coming there." But atithi, he does not inform you, all of a sudden comes. So you should have to receive him. That is called atithi. Pāntha. People are moving... Formerly, if some of the walkers in the street, suppose he has become hungry, so he enters anyone's house. So "I am hungry sir. Give me something to eat." He'll immediately, "Take." Pāntha-bhāga. There is a stock of foodstuff which is called pāntha-bhāga. If somebody comes all of a sudden, he should take.
Prabhupāda: Hm. And if Hayagrīva also finishes, then I can give daily one chapter.
Karandhara: Per day?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Karandhara: Should be able to produce a volume at least every month.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And the editors must be very expedient. Besides that, I think this Kṛṣṇa Book, smaller edition, that will have very soon another reprint.
Karandhara: At least ten million we will print in the Kṛṣṇa Book pocket size.
Prabhupāda: And Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, Macmillan Company's. They have taken. And they are also printing yearly fifty thousand or more than that. At least in Western countries there is no such thought of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is completely... That professor, what is his name?
Karandhara: Dimmock?
Prabhupāda: Dimmock. He has given very good appreciation. And gradually it will be printed in other languages.
Śyāmasundara: Because they promise something they don't deliver?
Prabhupāda: No, no. Even if you get it, what do you get? You go to... Supposed you go to church: "God, give us our daily bread." God is giving, then what do you get? Bread is given to the animals also. Why you are going to the church? That is the Communist say, that "We shall give you bread. Why you waste your time with so-called religions?" The politician says that "You want to be happy, there is technology. Why you are going to pray to God? This is all nonsense." They are thinking that. But prayer is not meant for that purpose. Prayer... Just like we are praying, but our prayer is "Kṛṣṇa, kindly engage me in Your service," Hare Kṛṣṇa. "O the energy of Kṛṣṇa, O the Lord Kṛṣṇa, please engage me in Your service." This is our prayer. We are not going to prayer, "O God, give us our daily bread." And if you get bread, then what do you gain?
Śyāmasundara: We've all experienced that. We've had so much bread. What did we get?
Prabhupāda: That's it. Even you get bread, what do you get? Bread is already given even to the animals. That they do not know. Therefore, they take religion for material gain. Dharma artha. And Bhāgavata says, arthasya dharmaikāntasya kāmo lābhāya hi smṛtaḥ. When you get money, it is not for satisfaction of your senses. Kāmasya nendriya-prītir (SB 1.2.10). And when it is the question of kāma, desire, that does not mean sense gratification. Lābho jīveta yāvatā. Simply you have to accept thing for living. It is not that you shall not eat. You eat, live.
Prabhupāda: This is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. If somebody is thinking, "If I had like this, like that, like that, like that." "All right you will have all." (laughter) Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu wanted to save himself in this way, that... "Yes, all are granted," but still he had to die. All granted. So we are trying to take facilities from Kṛṣṇa beginning from "O God, give us our daily bread, then give me motorcar, then give me airplane, then give me this, give me that." "Take all, but you will never be happy unless you surrender to Me. You take all." This is going on. The modern civilization, they are wanting, "We may have this, we may have that, we may have this, we may have that." "Yes, you take all. But don't talk of happiness, please." That is the only problem. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66), if you want this. Otherwise, you take whatever you like.
Śyāmasundara: The devotees, they don't care. They'll go across the desert hitchhiking, but Kṛṣṇa gives them happiness. They're happy.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is happiness. They are going for Kṛṣṇa, that is happiness. They forget the trouble.
Prabhupāda: That's all. They don't want to see people very enlightened. "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." But at least how to become wise, that injunction has been given to you. Now you try to save the country, how to do it. These people will not be. You'll have to educate the people, and they'll vote you to the senators, president, and then your country will be nice. Just like by Kurukṣetra, Kṛṣṇa smashed all Duryodhana and company, and He posted Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja. That is the Kṛṣṇa's politics. He wanted to smash all these demons and have His own men posted on the royal throne. When Kali could not penetrate into the daily behavior of the people, he planned killing of Parīkṣit Maharaja. So, one Kali brāhmaṇa cursed him to death, for no fault practically. Therefore the brāhmaṇas of this age, they are condemned. The so-called caste brāhmaṇas, they're condemned. That is lamented by the father of the boy who cursed Parīkṣit Maharaja.
Prabhupāda: Fifty pounds. But if you keep the cows, you get thirty pounds daily. This is intelligence. Instead of getting once fifty pounds and finished, why don't you get it daily thirty pounds?
Devotee (1): Because they're lusty.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: We have to set the example, Prabhupāda, through your mercy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is foolishness. Just like one has got some money, he utilizes his money and gets daily some income. And if he wants to spend all at once, that is foolishness.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Now they think they are smart. They think they can mass produce animals and mass kill them.
Prabhupāda: Mass killing?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Mass killing. That is... They have factories where they can produce thousands of animals very quickly. Quickly they inject certain vitamins and so on in the animal so that they become fat very fast for mass killing.
Prabhupāda: How they can produce thousands of animals?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: They're producing animals in the laboratories, not with... They're not producing, they are utilizing nature's way, but they don't let the animals see the green and the grass or the outside. They keep them in the barn and just keep feeding them.
Prabhupāda: I don't think it is possible. It is simply imagination.
Prabhupāda: (to guest) Take more. Come to our temple daily in the morning at seven. Are you coming there?
Guest: Yes. I was staying at the Detroit temple with Bhagavān.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Guest: I was helping the band a little bit. And I came to see you, and I was wondering what I should do to serve you. I should go back to Detroit?
Prabhupāda: Or you can remain here also, anywhere. We have got temple in Los Angeles. Have you been in Los Angeles?
Guest: No.
Prabhupāda: So come to Los Angeles and stay there for some time. I am going to Los Angeles tomorrow, so you can come. Live with us and you will be happy. We can guarantee you will be happy. Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Our Vedic mission is sarve sukhino bhavantu: everyone be happy. This is our mission. And we know how to become happy. That is our credit. We know. How to become happy we know. Therefore, you can inform others also how to become happy. Happiness is our birthright. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Living entity is ānandamaya, full of happiness, but they have fallen in a different condition. Therefore unhappy. Different condition. Just like fish taken out of the water and put into the land, a different condition, and it is throbbing, flapping, unhappy. Take it, put it in the water again, and it will be happy. That's it.
Prabhupāda: Daily. Every moment.
Bhakti-devī dāsī: But not in the material..., not in the material body?
Prabhupāda: Huh? No in... He has no material body.
Bhakti-devī dāsī: Well in the temple here they have pictures of Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: That is not material. You are seeing material...
Bhakti-devī dāsī: Uh huh.
Prabhupāda: ...because you have got material eyes. Because your, you have got your material eyes, you cannot see the spiritual form. Therefore He kindly appears to be in a material body so that you can see. This is the point. Because He has kindly made Himself just fit for your seeing, that does not mean He is..., that He has material body. Just like President Nixon, if he kindly comes to your house, it does not mean that his position and your position is the same. It is his kindness, out of love, he may come to your house, but that does not mean he is on the same level with you. Similarly, because we cannot see with our present eyes what is Kṛṣṇa, therefore Kṛṣṇa appears before us as painting, as made of stone, as made of wood. And Kṛṣṇa is not different from these paintings and wood because everything is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Read Kṛṣṇa book daily. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee child (2): How many rounds should we do a day?
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) Where is the kīrtana going on?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: On the street. They are getting ready for saṅkīrtana.
Devotee child (1): Someone(?) has to be here to meet you.
Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda? We've got a traveling saṅkīrtana group coming here (indistinct) from Dallas. The boys are stopping to see you. In two days Dvārakādhīśa distributed about one hundred of your Back to Godheads, and so many Kṛṣṇa books. And all the boys took part in saṅkīrtana. It would be very nice...
Prabhupāda: They want to see me? They want to see me?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: No, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Then? What he says?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: He says that when they were on their way to New York City, the students distributed hundred Back to Godhead and went on saṅkīrtana.
Devotee (2): In two days Dvārakādhīśa distributed over a hundred.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: And Dvārakādhīśa did over a hundred in two days.
Prabhupāda: Very good. That's a great service.
Prabhupāda: That children should fight, but if you give them, give them good arrangement, more engagement for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, always engage them in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee (5): They should do as much japa as possible.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They should have no scope, simply chant and dance, daily engagement, and (indistinct) says that they should play Kṛṣṇa play-cowherds boy going to the forest, someone, someone has become cow, like that. If they have got good engagement, and sometimes they fight, after all, they're coming from fighting father and mother. So you have to change them.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes (laughter)
Prabhupāda: The father and mother, they're also fighting (laughter)
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So what is their fault?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: We have a lot of plays that they could fight in the play.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: As many times as she likes.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Oh.
Prabhupāda: She may come daily, or she can remain there to see.
Devotee (5): Oh. Jaya.
Devotee (6): Can I ask a question?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: He's another teacher.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Devotee (6): Can I ask you a question?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Devotee (6): That many, many devotees have, have since I have arrived here, have asked me questions about how, how to treat the children, how to, how to teach the children, and they have, you know, there are many children in other temples besides gurukula who are either are not, not of age yet, or who have not been sent yet...
Prabhupāda: Everyone is of age. That is all right. It is not that there is no age limit. Anyone who can remain, that is the best thing. But with very small children, I think nowadays after three years children can begin.
Devotee (6): Devotees who have children, who have come to the temple. They said, one woman said that "They've..., my son, they're throwing him in cold shower. They say he has to take a cold shower, and that no one wants to have anything to do with him because he's so much trouble..."
Prabhupāda: No, we have got our own program. We cannot accept the different program, that "My son should be done like this..." We should see that everyone is taking bath daily, that's all. They are taking bath daily?
Devotee (6): Yes.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. Rising early in the morning?
Devotee (6): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Attending maṅgala ārati?
Devotee (6): Yes
Prabhupāda: Now you are GBC here, you have come, now you make it hundred pounds daily. How to do it, he knows.
Dhanañjaya: But, but there is already hundred pounds coming. Two hundred pounds, then.
Prabhupāda: And his best friend is George. (laughs)
Devotee: I'm going to see him tomorrow.
Devotee (1): Is he in town?
Prabhupāda: He can alone make purchase a good temple. George alone can purchase.
Prabhupāda: They'll contribute. And if she canvasses, she can collect lakhs.
Devotee: But one thing is, if Giriraja takes advantage and begins preaching in her school daily... She's invited him, open invitation.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then it will be pleased.
Devotee: Then when she'll see her students improve, then she'll give us all help.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now we have got land, many people will contribute materials. Materials, we can get materials from many big, big merchants.
Devotee: Yeah, like, ah, Tarachand.
Prabhupāda: Cement, iron, they will.. "All right. Give it." Goods, anyone will give.
Prabhupāda: Śaraṇaṁ vraja—you just surrender. Whatever you say...
Guest (2): In daily life, I mean, like our practical life, how śaraṇāgati could be...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, śaraṇāgati. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna was hesitating to fight but when he surrendered to Kṛṣṇa he fought.
Guest (2): He was lucky. Lord Kṛṣṇa was right there with him.
Prabhupāda: So Lord Kṛṣṇa's instruction is there. That is Lord Kṛṣṇa. There is no difference between Lord Kṛṣṇa and His instruction. He is absolute. Just like these boys. They are serving Kṛṣṇa. Lord Kṛṣṇa is not present. Lord Kṛṣṇa is present but you do not know how He is present. Lord Kṛṣṇa is present by His name, Hare Kṛṣṇa. This Kṛṣṇa and the person Kṛṣṇa is not different. That you do not know. You are thinking Kṛṣṇa is gone, but Kṛṣṇa is present by His instruction, by His name, by His form, by His quality, by His pastime, because He is absolute. Kṛṣṇa is never absent. Simply we have to see, we have to make our eyes to see Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is always present. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). Those who are saintly person, they are seeing twenty-four hours, every minute, Kṛṣṇa. Hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti. How? Premāñjana-cchurita. When there is love of Kṛṣṇa. Just like ordinarily, if you love somebody, you will find him everywhere.
Devotee (1): This is the original building?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not less than four hundred and fifty years.
Śyāmasundara: And they used to meet here daily?
Prabhupāda: Yes. They, all the Gosvāmīs, used to sit down there. And Rūpa Gosvāmī's bhajana, he was dancing here, and after his passing away, he was entombed there. But that tomb is Lokanātha Gosvāmī. He is also one of the important Gosvāmīs.
Śyāmasundara: Rūpa Gosvāmī.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi with passers-by)
Śyāmasundara: Could you tell us any stories about Rūpa Gosvāmī while we are sitting here, or any...
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Rūpa Gosvāmī was a minister. So after retirement he, under the instruction of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he came to Vṛndāvana.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Therefore it is deviated. The Bhagavad-gītā, the Chapter, Fourth Chapter explains that you cannot understand Bhagavad-gītā by your own interpretation. You must follow the instruction of the original speaker of Bhagavad-gītā. The original speaker is Kṛṣṇa. So what Kṛṣṇa says, they have to follow it. Then it is Bhagavad-gītā. Otherwise if you interpret it in a different way then it is not Bhagavad-gītā. Now, what Kṛṣṇa says we have to understand it philosophically, ethically, scientifically, any way, any angle of vision. That is, that you can do. But you cannot change the version of Bhagavad-gītā. You cannot change. Just like Dr. Rādhākrishnan, in the Ninth Chapter when Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Dr. Rādhākrishnan says "It is not to the Kṛṣṇa person." But Kṛṣṇa person says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, "You just always think of Me." And he's deviating his readers, "Not to Kṛṣṇa." How much harm he's doing. This is going on. Why? It is said, Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, "Just think of Me. Just become my devotee." What right he has got to say that here it is not to Kṛṣṇa? This is going on. So if we interpret in that nonsense way then we shall not be able to understand Bhagavad-gītā. We shall miss this point. Science does not mean that you have to change according to your whims. Two plus two equal to four. You cannot make it five or three. That is not possible. Then it is not science. No longer the scientific value of this two plus two remains. We follow that principle, and that is the only principle. So if you're actually serious about Bhagavad-gītā, I do not know what is your commentary. I request you, "Try to follow the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. Don't interpret in your own way. Then it will be (indistinct)." Everyone has got (indistinct) all over the world. Therefore we are selling this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is very nicely. Our publisher's MacMillan Co. and their trades managers report is that our Bhagavad-gītā is increasing daily, sales, other decreasing. That is the report, and in October they published 50,000 copies, it is already finished. Now they have to plan it for the second edition. People are very much now, eager to read Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. So, imitating us, somebody's, another (chuckles) man, he said "Bhagavad-gītā As It Was." (laughs with everyone) Like that. So that will not harm our cause.
Prabhupāda: And when there's profit, that is His credit. Then he'll say: "Oh, I have worked so hard. Now I have got this profit." And when there is calamity, "Oh, what can I do, it is God's desire."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we experience almost daily that we suffer so much. So we see almost daily that people are dying, they are killed in the car accident...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...burned in houses...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...so many things. We experience almost daily.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Karandhara: Now in Russia, the people are starting to become disillusioned.
Prabhupāda: I, I, I am traveling all over the world. My opinion is that, materially, America is happy. And spiritually some portion of India is happy. Otherwise, there is no happiness all over the world. And material happiness is illusion. That is not happiness. Because it will break at any time. Therefore that is not happiness. And spiritual happiness is real happiness. So in Russia, there is neither material nor spiritual. So they are unhappy in all respects. I asked Professor Kotovsky to call for a taxi. So he said: "Well, it is Moscow. Very difficult to get taxi." So he came down himself, he showed us this way: "Please go in this way, in this way, and you get (to) your hotel." He's a big man. He knows that taxi will not be available. And there are few taxis only, show. I did not see any store very neat and clean, well-decorated. Not a single. All old with dust. As if antique shop. The antique shop, just like in your country. I was daily having my morning walk in the Red Square. The most dangerous square...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: What square?
Prabhupāda: Red Square. Yes. I think you have got my picture.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Matter is a part of life? Component.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like this nail is coming. This is matter. But it is coming from life. Because the body is in life, therefore the nail is coming, daily growing. Any child can understand. When this body is dead, no more nail will grow. Therefore this is matter coming from life. This body grows because the life is there. Life is there. If there is no life, the body will not grow. So it's natural conclusion, that matter grows upon life. And because life is the cause and matter is the effect, therefore as in the effect the cause is there... Just like cotton. Cotton is the cause and the thread is the effect. In the thread there is cotton. That is understood. Similarly, because life is the cause, matter is the effect, therefore in the effect there is life. In another form.
Prabhupāda: This is the difference. We are maintained, and He is maintainer. That is difference. Otherwise, God is also person, I am also person. One is maintainer and others, the plural number, they are maintained. In the Christian religion also, the same idea is: "God give us our daily bread," maintenance. So that is the difference. He is the bread supplier, and we are bread eater. That's all.
Mr. Wadell: He doesn't supply his bread to everybody unless...
Prabhupāda: Everybody, yes, everybody. Beginning...
Mr. Wadell: People die, do they not?
Prabhupāda: Die, that is another thing. People die even if he has got many things to eat, still he dies. Can you check it? That does not depend on eating. There are many men. They are dying.
Prabhupāda: Dreams mean that is also change of body.
Guest (5): It has nothing to do with the human...?
Prabhupāda: No, dream... Just like you forget about this body. Just you have forgotten what body you had in your last birth, similarly, the same experience daily happening. When you dream, you forget that you have got this body. And again, when you give up your dreaming, you come to this body, you forget in what body you were dreaming. So this is the proof that you are living entity, but the body's changing daily. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). But these rascals, they do not understand that there is the dehāntara. They are experiencing daily that there is dehāntara, but they do not have any education about this dehāntara.
Guest (5): (Sanskrit:) Viśvambhara para dṛśyamānaṁ nagarī tulyāṁ na janāntara-gataṁ, paśyam ātmani māyayā bahir ivodbhuḥataṁ yathā nidrayā, yaḥ sākṣād kurute prabodha sameya svātman eva advayam, tasmai śrī guru-mūrtyenam etaṁ śrī taksna mūrtaye.(?)
Prabhupāda: (chuckles.) Yes. So this education is wanting. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). As soon as one understands that "I'll have to change my, this body; then what kind of body I'm going to get next life." That next inquiry will be. Then he is intelligent. Then he is intelligent.
Prabhupāda: We are daily, every moment, seeing, every moment. Otherwise, do you mean to say we are blindly following something?
Student (2): No, I'm not saying that. I'm just asking if someone comes along and joins you, do they see Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Yes, why don't you see Kṛṣṇa? There is picture of Kṛṣṇa. Why don't you see, driving horse? Here is Kṛṣṇa. Why don't you see? If you see the photograph of your father, is it not seeing your father?
Student (2): No.
Prabhupāda: No, then what can I talk with you?
Student (2): All I was saying was is it, when someone comes...
Prabhupāda: Your the photograph of your, seeing the photograph of your father, is it not seeing your father? That's your argument?
Student (1): No, it's seeing a photograph of your father.
Prabhupāda: False?
Revatīnandana: It's seeing a photograph of your father.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, but God is Absolute. God and God's photograph, there is no difference. God and God's name, there is no difference. Therefore God is Absolute. He is not relative. You can say, "The photograph is not my father," that because it is relative. But God is Absolute. God's name, God's form, God's pastimes—everything is God. That you have to understand, Absolute nature. Otherwise are these boys and so many thousands and thousands of devotees... They are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: It is said... Suppose I am serving my master. I can think of, "Oh, why shall I serve him? I shall become independent." That is my freedom, little freedom. So I cannot become independent. That is not my healthy stage. Just like... Take for example, a dog. A dog is healthy when he has got a good master. And if he hasn't got a good master, he's a street dog, neglected. He's not healthy. Similarly our position is like that, that we must be dependent on God. Therefore in your Christian Bible also you go for your bread: "God, give us our daily bread." So you are dependent. So it is better to remain dependent on God than to use your so-called little freedom.
Prabhupāda: So to remain dependent on God is our healthy state. As soon as we declare independent of God, that is our unhealthy state. This is our philosophy. And your philosophy also. To remain there. That is the Vedic injunction, that nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām, eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). What is the difference between God and ourself? God is also a living entity like us, but He's the chief living entity. He's maintaining all others. Therefore we have to ask God, "Give us our daily bread." He's the maintainer; we are maintained. Just like in a family, the father is the maintainer, and the mother and the children and the servants, they are maintained, similarly the whole universe, whole creation, it is maintained by God, and we living entities, within this universe or within this creation, we are maintained. So as we are maintained, it is better to remain dependent on God than to declare our freedom.
Prabhupāda: The one thing is they take it. Others will not take it. That is the difference. If... There is a picture; my Guru Mahārāja has..., one man has fallen in a deep well, and he's crying "Save me!" So another man dropped a rope, that "You catch it. I shall carry you." Then he'll not catch it. Then how he can be drawn. So... (break) ...mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). "There is nothing more superior than Me." We are preaching the same thing, that "You are searching after God. You are, some of you are disgusted that 'There is no God,' but here is God. You take His name. You take His address. You take His daily activities. Everything is there." And that is our mission. And we started this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in 1966. So when I registered this society, somebody suggested that "Why not make it 'God consciousness?' " And no, I want to give definitely what is God. God, they have got different conception. But here is God. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). That is the Vedic injunction. "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." And when He was present, He proved it, that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So we have not introduced any new system of religion. That is not a fact.
Prabhupāda: In the month of May I was here. Again I have come in July. Formerly, from India to come to London, it was like a dream. And now it is daily affair. (laughs)
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: You get on the plane in the morning and go in the evening there. Simply you have to pay. Otherwise, there is no difficulty. So let us... So thank you very much for your...
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: It was very kind of you to come.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: I'm sorry I couldn't see you next week which would have been more convenient to you, but unfortunately next week I was very much occupied, and I'm very grateful to you for coming this afternoon. It was kind of you.
Prabhupāda: Thank you.
Woman: No, but everyone, everyone dies because this..., because this is the pattern and this is the cycle: you are born, you will live your life, you will die. Some people die young, some people die old.
Prabhupāda: No. India, India at the present moment, they have lost their culture. In India, five thousand years ago, when Maharaja Pariksit was there, one black man was trying to kill a cow. He immediately took his sword, the king. So "Who are you? You are killing cow in my kingdom?" The same India, the government is sanctioning ten thousand cows to be killed daily. So India is not the same India. India has lost its culture. You see? Therefore they are suffering.
Woman: But everything is changing. Not only India is changing, every country is...
Prabhupāda: So every country is suffering. Just they are suffering in one way.
Devotee (1): California is suffering...
Prabhupāda: Suffering another way. Nobody is, is free from suffering. I have already explained. There are three kinds of suffering. So who is free from this suffering? You may not be suffering from any bodily disease, but you may be suffering from mental agony. You may not be suffering from mental agony, but you may suffer, suffering imposed by others. There are so many suffering. This place is suffering. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam. This place is for suffering. Duḥkhālayam. Duhkha means suffering, alayam means place. Asasvatam. And still you cannot make adjustment. You, if you say "All right, let there be a little suffering. Let me stay here," that also will not be allowed. You will be kicked out: "Get out!" Then you have to accept another body. You do not know what kind of body. So these things are there. Don't think that a little happy life for ten years or twenty years is the solution of your problem. That is not solution. Real solution is different.
Prabhupāda: By this process, nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā, by hearing the message of Kṛṣṇa, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that is also about Kṛṣṇa, chanting about Kṛṣṇa, nityam daily, regularly, nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā...
Haṁsadūta: Bhagavaty uttama-śloke...
Prabhupāda: Bhaktir bhavati naiṣṭhikī. Then he becomes fixed up in devotional service. Not that he has completely become cleansed. Even little cleansed, then he will engage. Then he will hear. "What does he say?" Unclean, how he can take up?
Haṁsadūta: He can't accept it.
Prabhupāda: No. Unclean. Therefore we make more cleaner, cleaner, cleaner, cleaner. The more he becomes cleansed, he can understand. He'll accept. But unclean state, you do not expect.
Prabhupāda: Throughout the whole world. But we are selling our books very nicely, about... How many, how much dollars?
Yogeśvara: How many, how many lakhs of rupees of books per month, Pradyumna?
Prabhupāda: No, no, daily...
Professor: Lakhs of...
Prabhupāda: Daily we are collecting about thirty, eight hundred... In, in, in Los Angeles we collect about eight hundred dollars daily.
Yogeśvara: More than that.
Prabhupāda: More than that. Eh?
Haṁsadūta: I think it must be about two thousand, about twenty thousand dollars a day, through the society.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Professor: Oh. Yes?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Because Vivekananda said, "Oh, what is the harm there, in eating? You can eat whatever you like. It doesn't matter in religion." It was the first. And he himself was eating anything. So all the Ramakrishna mission sannyāsīs still, they are eating meat, egg and everything, especially in America. Yes. Fish is no consideration. That is daily affair. And the turkey,... Yes. Instead of preaching here, they have taken the Western method. And Vivekananda's preaching is like Western missionaries-open hospitals, school...
Professor: You are right, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He had no spiritual knowledge. So therefore it has not been successful. They are preaching in the Western countries... As far I know, in America they have got ten or twelve branches. I am working for the last six years only. I have got already fifty branches. And each branch, there are devotees like them, not less than twenty-five, up to two hundred, three hundred, all dedicated souls.
Prabhupāda: Two thousand, three thousand dollars daily.
Yogeśvara: More than that.
Prabhupāda: More than that.
Yogeśvara: Much more than that.
Guru-gaurāṅga: Haṁsadūta said twenty-thousand.
Prabhupāda: Twenty-thousand? Oh.
Haṁsadūta: Yeah, we also have so many small books.
Guru-gaurāṅga: These books are all by Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Later on they will write.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)
Śyāmasundara: ...he's very happy and he's going to, for vacation for one month in September so that he can read and chant for one month undisturbed. He's reading now Kṛṣṇa Book daily.
Prabhupāda: He should, one day should have come here see the Deity.
Śyāmasundara: He's going to come before he leaves. He's leaving on fifth September.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice.
Śyāmasundara: He's coming next week.
Mālatī: She is doing her japa.
Prabhupāda: All right.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): We've got to live here of course. It seems to me almost daily that the next processes in life are the much more interesting and exciting ones. But when I hear you speak of Bhagavad-gītā and so on, I know nothing about these people. So now where do I start?
Prabhupāda: You have to start from Bhagavad-gītā.
Guest (1): That's this one.
Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all, we have to understand what is that force which is moving this body. Then we come to the spiritual platform. As you understand, the nature of the soul, that is very elaborately explained in different way, negative, positive way, what is the soul. This morning, every morning I speak on this Bhagavad-gītā, if you find time you can come. At quarter past seven, I'm beginning, for one hour.
Prabhupāda: Daily he was chanting raghupati rāghava rājā rāma. So...,
Guest (3): (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Where this chanting effect will go? Yes. The chanting... Hare Kṛṣṇa. But I mean to say that he could not teach what Rāma.
Guest (1): (laughs) No.
Prabhupāda: That is his misfortune. But in spite of his misfortune, because he was practiced to chant the name of Rāma, he was pious. Although he was ignorant. He was absorbed in thought of politics. He should have, if he would have understood that Rāma is a fact, Kṛṣṇa is a fact... That he did not understand. Then he would have preached the glories of Rāma, glories of Kṛṣṇa. He took the chanting of Rāma for his political purposes. He utilized for political purpose. Just like... That is nāma-aparādha. Samaḥ śubha-kriyā mati pramāṇaḥ (?). He was trying to get some material profit by chanting the holy name of Rāma. That he got, material profit. He was the most famous politician, all over the world.
Prabhupāda: I am doing in my dictaphone daily one tape. One tape, about how many pages?
Pradyumna: Ten to twelve pages.
Prabhupāda: And he's editing. After typing, he edits, and then it is gone to the press. In this way, our work is going on.
Professor: Do you have the original here of the Bhāgavata Purāṇa?
Prabhupāda: Oh yes.
Professor: Could I see it? Is it any...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is only Fifth Canto. We have got... You can bring that book, black bound.
Prabhupāda: You cannot ever overcome, because you are all weak. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā (BG 7.14). Unless you are very strong, māyā is very, very stronger than you. How you can avoid it? Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā, mām eva ye prapadyante. Only one is very, very strong in capturing the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, he can avoid. Otherwise it is not possible. All these Villa Parle, Juhu gentlemen, they are daily coming to their city business. And is it very difficult for us?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They have an office, though, in the city where they come to.
Prabhupāda: Office means their business is office. But your business is begging. Your business is not office. Your business is not... They have to direct so many things from there. That we can do. Besides that... Anyway, even they have got office, they come from in Bombay, Calcutta, even from hundred miles away. So if there is no such program, Deity worship, regulative principles, then it will be a joint mess. Hotel. Transcendental hotel. And transcendental fraud. This will go on. The business will be transcendental fraud, and life will be transcendental hotel. (Break) ...twenty, twenty-five. So these women devotees, they are given cāpāṭis by the bābājīs. Kṣurasya dhārā. Actually it is like that. A sharpened razor, A little inattention, immediately blood. Kṣurasya dhārā niśitā duratyayā durgaṁ pathas tat kavayo vadanti (?). That is the risk. Nowadays modern civilization, as we are accepting, there is jeep, there is telephone, everything is there. One can conduct his activities from anywhere.
Prabhupāda: Yes, dadāti. That I have already explained. Dadāti. He must give. Give. Everyone goes to God to beg, "God, give us our daily bread." But one must go to God to give Him. If I do not give bread to Kṛṣṇa, he will be starving. This is devotee's mentality. Yaśodāmāyī, Yaśodāmāyī is thinking, Kṛṣṇa, "If I do not feed Kṛṣṇa well, my child will die." This is devotion. Otherwise everyone is asking from Kṛṣṇa. But Yaśodā-mā is thinking that "If I do not maintain Kṛṣṇa properly, He will die." Therefore he (she) is always trying to supply everything, mākhana, miśri. So real love begins when you try to give God. Everyone is trying to take from God, "Oh father, give us our daily bread." This is not pure devotee. This is good because he has approached God, but this is not devotion. It is not devotion, it is..., means business "God, give me something, then I will love you." Is it not?
Guest (1): But giving means, you know, giving part of what you earn, or some other way. When you say give...
Prabhupāda: Give means, you want to take something from God. "God, give me wealth, give me fame" Yaśo dehi.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: With this background before, then that is why they start saying that before Darwin's theory there should be one. That is called chemical evolution. That is called pre-biotic-chemistry. Means before biological evolution started there should be chemical evolution.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that chemical evolution is part of life demonstration. That I have already explained. Just like the chemical, citric acid, coming from lemon tree, a life. It is coming. So all chemicals are being produced... Just like in your body, in my body, there are so many chemicals. Because the body is there, the chemicals are coming. In my urine you will find so much, so many chemicals. In my stool you will find so many chemicals. Wherefrom the chemicals coming? Daily, enzymes, so many other chemicals are coming. Simply the medical man analyzes the urine, and so many chemicals are there. Wherefrom it came? Because I am living entity, the chemicals are coming in my urine, in my stool, in my cough, in my secretion. It is coming. Therefore it is concluded that chemicals are produced by life, not life is produced by chemicals.
Prabhupāda: They cannot answer. They simply give, they can give simply words, that's all. "United," they're speaking of unity, only flags are increasing. Daily another flag, another flag, another flag, and the flags will never unite. And still they are advertising "United Nations."
Yaśomatīnandana: When the war starts, United States...
Prabhupāda: Yes, in America, they started, United Nations, but they are going to fight with the Vietnam. United Nations.
Yaśomatīnandana: Unless one is free from the material concept of life, like "I'm American," "I'm Indian," "I'm Chinese," "I'm Japanese," how can he be peaceful? Because he has got some grudge against somebody else.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Wolfe: But that is just what they do not want to accept.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is foolishness. That is foolishness. They do not take good advice. That is foolishness. Foolishness means mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakipaya na śāntaye (?). Mūrkha, a rascal, if you give him good advice, he'll be angry. Just like a serpent, if you bring the serpent and if you tell the serpent, "My dear friend serpent, you live with me. I shall give you daily nice food, milk and banana. You'll be very pleased." So the result will be that his poison will increase. One day he'll say, "Phaḥ! Phaḥ!" (laughter) So these rascals are like that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they won't give up hopes. They are always hopeful.
Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. Their hopes are being frustrated every moment; still, they are hoping. That is foolishness.
Prabhupāda: Well, mundane figure, because you have got picture of George Washington, that's... We have got picture of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. You think George Washington fact because you see the picture of, that's all. So we see daily the picture, the photo, the statue.
Karandhara: Well, they may accept Kṛṣṇa as a person, but not as God.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa is person. Kṛṣṇa is person. God is person. That we accept. God is person. God is not person.
Bali Mardana: The demons at Kṛṣṇa's time could not even accept Him as God, what to speak of the demons now.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prajāpati: There's a large group today, Śrīla Prabhupāda, called humanists and they have decided that this concept of God is not very useful. We can solve all the problems ourselves.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. These are rascals. You see, humanists, they are professing humanists and they are killing so many human beings daily. You see? These are all escapism. What is called? Escaping? They could not find any, I mean to say, solace and now humanity... What they can do? There are so many people suffering in the human society. What they can do? Suppose they are opening hospitals. Is that guarantee for a cure of disease or no death? Then what is the humanity. You cannot do anything. You may advertise yourself, " I have opened so many hospitals and beds." But what you can do? Is that guarantee that there that there will be no disease and everyone will be cured, nobody will die. Then what is the humanitarianism. You cannot do anything.
Prabhupāda: Yes but daily we see it is covered. Why? That means?
Śrutakīrti: The tides go in and out.
Prajāpati: The phases of the moon, Śrīla Prabhupāda, affect the tides.
Prabhupāda: That I know. Or due to this moon, yes. Now it will go down. After this full moon. Yes. (break)
Prajāpati: ...Christmas, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They'd be better off celebrating the fact that you're here.
Prabhupāda: I say that they are not Christian. They're all atheists. Christians, one who is actually Christian, he's good. But they are not Christians. They do not believe in Christ. Neither in his words. So what kind of Christian they are?
Hṛdayānanda: They're such rascals that some of the young student so-called Christians, they even preach that.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, any Hindus, so-called Hindu, if he does not believe in the words of Kṛṣṇa, what kind of Hindu he is? He's a rascal. He's a rascal.
Prabhupāda: And what is that? Good morning. Hare Kṛṣṇa. There are three stages. First stage of understanding is direct perception, by senses. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhuḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find. Here, from the material platform, our source of knowledge is direct perception. That is crude, pratyakṣa. It is called pratyakṣa. That is crude knowledge, direct perception. Just like I am seeing the sun. I am getting some idea of the sun, but that is not the perfect idea, although I am seeing it daily. I am seeing just like a disc, but it is very, very big. So my direct perception cannot give me perfect knowledge. The first... Besides that, at our present stage, material condition, we are imperfect because we commit mistake. By direct seeing the sun, I am thinking that it is just like a disc. Then we are illusioned. We, sometimes we accept something for something. Then, with this imperfect knowledge, we try to become teacher. That is cheating. And at the end, our senses are imperfect. So with so many imperfectness, how we can get perfect knowledge? What is your answer?
Professor: I have no answer.
Prajāpati: Today the only time they use the word God is when they are swearing and they are calling on God to damn someone else. Why is such language there? Why are they doing like that?
Prabhupāda: No. Why ordinary men? Even those who are going to church, they are also praying God, "God, give us our daily bread." These rascals, they have made God as agent for their sense gratification. This is their philosophy. Even from the priest down to the rogues, they have made God as the agent of their sense gratification. That is materialism." God must supply whatever I want. That is God. Otherwise I don't care for God." This is their philosophy.
Prajāpati: So therefore we introduce bill into the schools to introduce God consciousness to all the children there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. God consciousness. Then everyone will be honest, and everything will be adjusted. Everyone can understand this is pure cheating. I give you a hundred dollars, a piece of paper. That's all. And you accept it. You want to be cheated. You thought, that "I have got now daily, hundred dollars. So let me work very hard." He does not consider that "I am not getting a hundred dollars. I am getting a piece of paper." So people have no brain to understand even. "This is not hundred dollars. Give me cash, hundred dollars." Then everything, solution will be... There will be no inflation. Because I know that paying you a piece of paper, I can cheat you, therefore I am printing notes, to cheat so many people. Therefore inflation. But when there will be no possibility to cheat you, then there will be no inflation. Here I have got the opportunity, because I know that pushing forward a piece of paper, I can cheat so many people. So there must be inflation. Is it not? This is not psychological? If I know that I can cheat you by this instrument, so why shall I not increase that? That is inflation.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is the only remedy. That is the only remedy. Anyone who takes to this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, he'll be cleansed of all sinful activities and then everything will come out nice. And it is practical. It is not story. Just see, all our disciples in Europe, America, they were habituated to so many bad habits, and because they are chanting, they are now cleansed. So it is small-scale. If you propagate it large-scale, everyone will be cleansed. (break) ...disciples who were trained up from very beginning of their life: meat-eating. They are giving meat-eating. Here in your country, small children, they are fed with meat-powder. Intoxication is also a daily affair. How they are giving up all intoxication? (break) Is there arrangement for... Where is Karandhara?
Karandhara: Jaya, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: That placard, poster?
Karandhara: Prajāpati and I discussed it yesterday and we're trying to find an artist to do it.
Prajāpati: Nara-nārāyaṇa Prabhu's good wife is expert artist.
Kṛṣṇa-caitanya: Excuse me?
Prabhupāda: Coconut, you collect, and each one of you use at least two coconuts daily, drinking water and the pulp. It is very digestive and nutritious. The pulp is very nutritious and digestive. If you simply take the pulp from two sides and drink that water, you don't require to eat anything. It is so nutritious. So better collect, and so long you can get them, use two coconuts daily yourself. (japa) (break) ...purchase that Kṛṣṇa, and when he'll ask this man to "Give me that Kṛṣṇa book, let me read," this "Kṛṣṇa" will give him some benefit, his calling "Kṛṣṇa Book."
Prabhupāda: But their income is more than one lakh of rupees daily.
Guest (1): Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Keno āpnāra?
Guest (3): (Hindi) (break)
Prabhupāda: Ācchā. (break) ...that is our slogan. Satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi (SB 1.1.1). Janmādyasya yataḥ. We explain this truth. the truth is that from whom everything comes. Janmādyasya yataḥ. So He's a person or imperson? No, abhijñaḥ svarāṭ. Tene brahma hṛdā ya ādi-kavaye muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ.
Devotee: Kṛṣṇa says, "There's no truth superior to Me."
Prabhupāda: Yes, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). The truth is there. They do not know. Half-educated. This is very good, "Truth is the..." We also say, but they do not know what is that truth.
Prabhupāda: Nihāram iva bhāskara. Let the scientists do it in their scientific way, drive away the fog. Is there any process? Eh? In the ocean, when there is fog like this, they have to stop all the ships and cry, (makes sound like fog horn:) onnnh, onnnh, so that they may not collide. I have seen it when I was coming, going to USA. Where is Mohanānanda? He is here? No. Mohanānanda? Hare Kṛṣṇa. The difference between other camps and our: they call these men from their daily, I mean to say, life, householder's life, for this purpose for a week or so, but they are not dedicated. Here, in our camp, all our people are dedicated to the cause. That is the difference. So they cannot surpass your activities.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (break) Adjust their cash.
Guest (2): Cash is different...
Prabhupāda: No, no. I mean to say, account computer. But they must tally with their daily balance.
Guest (2): Well, they put in the suspense. When they find out this mistake, that somebody pointed out, then they adjust it. So many times it has happened. But this computer system is not hundred per cent efficient.
Guest (1): One Indian girl, Śakuntalā, went to London and America and stay on (?) these computers. She was able to work out computer, one...
Guest (2): She challenged. She challenged.
Guest (2): Śakuntalā?
Guest (2): Śakuntalā, yes.
Prabhupāda: Some girl came to see me. She's little fatty, that girl?
Guest (2): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Oh, I think...
Guest (2): She printed a photo in the London papers also and challenged that "I can beat any computers in the western world." (break)
Guest (1): Under one high-court?
Prabhupāda: Under one high-court, yes.
Prabhupāda: That is philosophy. Darśana. Darśana means search out what is the ultimate. Jñānī ca bharatarṣabha (BG 7.16). Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna, ārto 'rthārthī jñānī ca bharatarṣabha, arto 'rthārthī jijñāsur jñānī ca bharatarṣabha. These are philosophers. Even the ārtaḥ, even a distressed person, he is praying to the Supreme Authority, "My God, I am very much hungry. Kindly give me my daily bread." He's also philosopher, because he's searching out the Absolute Truth. He's philosopher. Not this Freud rascal, elaborating how to have sex life. So this kind of philosopher, they... What is called? In Bengali: vane haye śṛgāla rājā.(?) "In the jungle a jackal becomes a king." So because western people, they have no... They're all less than śūdras. So a Freud has become a philosopher. Vane haye śṛgāla rājā. "In the jungle, the jackal has become a king." That's all. What is knowledge there? It is that... The whole western world is going on for industry, for making money, eat, drink, be merry, wine and women. That's... They're all less than śūdras and caṇḍālas. This is the first time attempt is being made to make them human beings. Don't mind. I am using very strong words. That is the fact.
Prabhupāda: Not arthārthī. Jñānī. No, I must give the proper position. Jñānī...
Dr. Patel: You have, you have admitted at the end, before these boys.
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Dr. Patel: You have rehabilitated me. (laughter) (break)
Prabhupāda: ...pious, how you would come daily to see the maṅgala-ārati? This is the proof.
Dr. Patel: That is, we are, we are brought up like that from our...
Prabhupāda: That is, that means you are pious.
Guest (3): You are pious.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Śucīnāṁ sukṛtāṁ gṛhe.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Well.
Dr. Patel: Well, yes. And those boys came and Kṛṣṇa saved him.
Prabhupāda: Daily thousands of cows he was distributing.
Dr. Patel: And one day brāhmaṇa's cow was wrongfully given.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So these material pious activity is like that. There is risk. There is risk.
Dr. Patel: Shall we go back?
Prabhupāda: Ācchā? We shall go a little more? Little more let us go. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ (SB 10.12.11).
Dr. Patel: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) ...but you start when there is little light. Not in the darkness.
Prabhupāda: That is also required. Then, I mean, tending the cows. You see. We are getting seven hundred pounds milk daily.
Dr. Patel: This was in Los Angeles?
Prabhupāda: Virginia. Virginia. Different branches in different states. And the school is in Texas, Dallas. There is immense potency of increasing this movement in America. Immense potency.
Dr. Patel: In all departments of life you can increase. Even the workers who are...
Prabhupāda: No, I say, "Let there be saṅkīrtana in factory."
Dr. Patel: That is what I say. That is what I say.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mr. Sar: Yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ (BG 7.3).
Prabhupāda: Yes, to understand Kṛṣṇa is not so easy job. First of all, so many millions and millions of living entities are there. They are not interested. They are just like animals: "Eat, drink, be merry and enjoy." Nobody's interested what is the success of life, siddhi. They do not know. They think, "If I..." Now, especially in this age, if you can eat sumptuously then it is siddhi, all siddhi. Yes. Udāraṁ bharita, svārtham udāraṁ bharita. That just we see people are so lazy. If they can eat their daily food some way or other, begging, borrowing and stealing, just like animals...
Dr. Patel: They have got ūdara-śiṣṇu-parāyanaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Parāyanaḥ. So they think, "Now my day's business is finished. Now I have eaten." And dakṣyaṁ kuṭumba-bharaṇam. And if one man can maintain a family of four, five, men, "Oh, he's Mahārāja Dakṣa." Mahārāja Dakṣa, you know? He was a great personality. He was performing yajñas. So this is Kali-yuga. Even they will not be able to maintain a wife, a few children. There is no shelter. I have seen in, all these things in western countries. They have no fixed up. Just like animals. The animal also loitering in the street or in the jungle; they are loitering in a great jungle, a great city. That's all.
Dr. Patel: Because this is all due to mind only.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The mind, mind forgets. The subtle body works. Similarly, we are dying daily. That is also death.
Dr. Patel: Nitya pralaya.
Prabhupāda: Nitya pralaya. But... When... Now, because the body is fit, therefore we come again to enjoy with the body, kṣetra. We come to the kṣetra. Just like you are tilling some land, but when it becomes useless, you cannot till. You have to go elsewhere. Suppose it is overflooded. You cannot work there. Similarly, death means when the mind, intelligence, along with the soul, cannot work in this body, he has to go to some other body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Dehāntara-prāptiḥ.
Prabhupāda: Right now. "Now I am fit. So let me remember You and die." So one must be fit. You see, even in daily, in dream, while sleeping, we forget so many things. Everything we forget.
Chandobhai: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So at the time of death, when everything is disordered, nothing is in order, unless one is very strongly practiced, how he can remember?
Dr. Patel: My father spoke, "Oṁ," and he stopped breathing and...
Prabhupāda: That's nice. Oṁ, oṁ ity eka... That is...
Dr. Patel: Then he stopped breathing.
Prabhupāda: That means he practiced. Therefore, either you practice Oṁ or Hare Kṛṣṇa, that is all right.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...prasannātmā. Brahma-bhūta. That is called brahma-bhūta stage. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. This happiness and distress is the cause of śocati and kāṅkṣati. Kāṅkṣati means desiring to have something. This is distress. And lamenting for something, that is also distress. Actually, this is the material position. When we haven't got the things, we desire it. That is also distress. And when it is lost, that is also distress. But by illusion, they take it. When they get it, they think that it is happiness. This is māyā. Actually, to get the things, he has to undergo so much hard... A man is given credit... Suppose he was a poor man. He has now become multi-millionaire. He is given credit. But he does not see that he has simply passed through distress. But he... By illusion, he's thinking that he's happy. He's also thinking, and others also thinking, that "He has become happy." But actually it is distress. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (chants japa) (break) ...people become religious not for attaining the transcendental stage, but for material benefit, dharma, the artha. Artha means material opulence, that. They... These four things: dharma artha kāma mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90). And why they want artha? To satisfy their senses. Dharma artha kāma... And when they're again baffled, they want mukti, to become one with the Supreme. These are the four different tastes of the material. All, all of them are baffling and illusory. The so-called religiosity with a view to get some material profit... That comes everywhere. Just (as) in Christianity, the religion means, "O God, give us our daily bread." Material profit, similarly, in anywhere, they go for material benefit. Therefore this kind of religion, it is also good, but it not first-class. The first-class religion is sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6), when one is awakened to the devotional service of the Lord, ahaitukī apratihatā, without any cause, and without being impeded. So ahaitukī apratihatā... That is, that stage is required. Not that "My sense gratification is not done here. Oh, let us give up this company." That is sense gratification. (laughs)
Indian Man (1): It is open, anybody can take.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...qualification is there. Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). You speak only Kṛṣṇa's words. He doesn't say, "Your words, your interpretation." This is nonsense. Kṛṣṇa's words. What Kṛṣṇa has said, just speak it. Then you become spiritual master.
- āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa
- yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa
- (CC Madhya 7.128)
And because you have become guru, you manufacture some ways and means, that is rascaldom. If you are guru, then you have to speak what Kṛṣṇa has said. That is guru. A guru does not manufacture anything. He is not guru. (break) ...it is. People are eager to give service to the fellow man, and not to the animals. How much blind they are. Just see. Animals have to be sent to the slaughterhouse, and fellow man should be given help. This is daridra-nārāyaṇa seva. And what this poor animal-nārāyaṇa has done? Because poor fund of knowledge. And here it is said that both the animals and the people should be taken care of. Who is taking care of the animals? Hundreds and thousands of animals are being slaughtered daily. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Who is taking care of them? How much short-sighted they are.
Dr. Patel: So you think we are demons also.
Prabhupāda: No. (lots of laughter) Demons would not come daily to see Kṛṣṇa's ārati. That they'll not. That they'll not. No. I say that...
Dr. Patel: Tomorrow we are going to walk all the distance.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I say that we devotees, we are not afraid even of demons. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Asad-grahāt. Hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta (SB 7.5.5). He asked the son, "What you have learned, the best thing, in school?" He said, "My dear asura-varya," not father, "My dear best of the demons, I think this is the best thing." "What is that?" "Now, these people," sadā samudvigna-dhiyām, "always anxious, full of anxiety..." Why? Asad-grahāt: "Because they accepted this material world as all in all." Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt: "On account of their accepting this material world as everything, therefore they are full of anxiety. Now, to get out of this anxiety, so-hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpam-ātma-pātaṁ, suicidal place, gṛha, household life, they should give up." Hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpam. "And then what you will do?" "Oh." vanaṁ gato: "He should give up and go to the forest." "And then?" Vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta: (SB 7.5.5) "And take shelter of the lotus feet of Hari. I understand this is the best thing." And his father become more angry. "What this rascal is speaking?" like that. (laughing) (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. He's all right? Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you.
Prabhupāda: That is a process only. You are requesting chant Hare Kṛṣṇa; we are requesting prayer, 'Give us our daily bread.' That's all. That is also prayer. This is chanting and that is prayer. So there is no difference."
Akṣayānanda: But when we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa we are praying to God, "Please let me serve you."
Prabhupāda: That is already settled. We are also serving. We are preaching Christianity.
Pañcadraviḍa: So then the work we are doing, God is one, we are all serving God, then there should be no objection to assisting us in propagating this love of God all over the world. You are already saying...
Prabhupāda: No, what is that love of God? That is already answered, that "We have also love of God."
Pañcadraviḍa: If you love someone, what are you doing? What is the aspect of your personal life?
Prabhupāda: "No, what we are not doing? What you are doing?"
Pañcadraviḍa: Our engagement is twenty-four hours.
Prabhupāda: "That may be. One may be engaged twenty-four hours or may be engaged for eight hours. That does not mean, you cannot say that I have no love for God."
Prabhupāda: You first of all eat mercury then. (laughter) You'll be finished. (break) ...no scarcity. Why should we go to imitate the rascals? We have got enough gold. Kṛṣṇa is supplying gold whenever we require. (break) ...artha-prayojanam. Whatever you need, Kṛṣṇa will supply, if you actually remain dependent on Kṛṣṇa. There are so many literatures of different groups, but who is selling so much? Forty thousand, fifty thousand daily? Unless Kṛṣṇa is helping us. In the history no religion book have sold thirty thousand, forty thousand daily. There is no history. So why don't you see this wonderful thing? All the money that I have brought from USA, India, it is all book fund. Nobody has given. George has given. That is not in cash. And he gave that two lakhs. That was spent for Kṛṣṇa Book. So wherefrom the cash is coming?
Gargamuni: Sales of books.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Because we have got substantial sale of books, we are free to get money. And it is unbelievable that religious books are sold thirty thousand, forty thousand, fifty thousand daily. There is no history.
Prabhupāda: Ah. They cannot understand what is the meaning of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are such dull headed men. They have no brain to understand. They are coming down again. Just like the dog's tail. Know, dog's tail. You may, however grease it... (laughs) They are hearing about this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The aim is the body, the dog's tail. They are hearing daily about Kṛṣṇa na..., but they cannot understand. It is very difficult. These karmīs... Now they say... Because we are reading this Bhāgavatam, now gradually they dispersed. Gradually they dispersed. They are not interested. Hare Kṛṣṇa. And if you talk politics and all nonsense, oh, they will gather.
- yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke
- sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ
- yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij
- janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ
- (SB 10.84.13)
The go-khara class. You can say plainly that "For the present, we are not interested. We have got many more important business than this hospitalization."
Prabhupāda: What you have produced, that's all. Very simple thing. Everyone was engaged producing. There was no necessity. And here the rascals are advising, produce bolts and nuts, tire, and drill petrol. They are not producing food. And the so-called government men, they are levying taxes, and they are enjoying. They haven't got to produce food. They are killing animals, eating, and digesting with wine. And then woman. That's all. This is their business. And food price is increasing daily. They don't mind because they will print paper, and to the supplier they will give paper. That's all.
Yogeśvara: One problem that seems to be occurring more and more frequently is the appearance of terrorists, that is to say, men who are motivated for some political, mostly political reasons.
Prabhupāda: Yes the whole basic principle I have already explained. Because they are animals, so sometimes ferocious animal. That's all. Animal, there are different types of animals. Tigers and lions, they are ferocious animal. But you live in the animal society. So animal society, some, another animal comes as very ferocious, that is not very astonishing. After all, you are living in animal society. So you become human being, ideal. This is the only solution. We have already declared, this is animal society. If some ferocious animal comes out, so where is the astonishment? After all, it is animal society. Either a tiger comes or elephant comes, they are all animals. That's all. But you don't become animal. Counteract. That is required. Then after... A human being is called rational animal. If you come to the rationality, that is required. If you remain also another animal, another type of animal, that will not help you. You have to become actually human being. But durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam. You have to... These people they have no aim of life. What is the aim of human..., they do not know. So their animal propensities are being adjusted this way, that way, this way, that way. Just like they go to see naked dance. The animal propensity—he is seeing his wife daily naked, and still he is going to see naked dance, and paying some fees.
Prabhupāda: They will not take any payment. Just like under me so many Europeans and Americans work daily. I don't pay them a farthing. When they become Kṛṣṇa conscious, you'll haven't got to pay anything. But you cannot take also anything. You cannot, you do not expect that "I don't have to pay anything, so it is very good profit." No, sir, you cannot take also anything. If I would have taken all the sales produced of the book selling, then you would not work. Because although it is my books, I do not take any profit or any sales proceeds, therefore you work. Similarly, these rascals, the proprietor of the factories, if they do not take anything, they will also agree not to take anything. Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Then the solution is there.
Prabhupāda: That is also living, for eight hours daily. We don't condemn, but our proposal is that you have got higher intelligence. Utilize it for higher purpose. The construction of dwelling place, it is known even to the birds and the beasts. The mouse also knows how to live within the earth. They make a hole. According to their capacity they make there. The birds also, they make their nest also, to live comfortably. So this intelligence there.
Dhanañjaya: Also the ants.
Prabhupāda: Ants also. Everyone knows. God has given that intelligence. Everyone knows how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex life, and how to defend. Everyone knows, according to their... But everyone except the human being does not know what is self-realization. That is only prerogative of the human being. So if they are not utilizing his intelligence for that purpose, he is simply wasting time, śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8), simply laboring for nothing.
Nitāi: They cannot face anybody who knows something.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They make this propaganda. They take bread to the peasants, and the peasants go to the church, and ask, "O God, give us our daily bread." Then they ask, "Has God given you bread?" So they say, "No sir." "You ask us." "Oh, Mr. Communist, give me bread." "Ah, take as much..." "Who is better?" "You are better." They'll say like that. But they have no sense that wherefrom this rascal has brought this bread. If God had, would not have given the wheat, wherefrom he would make the bread? But that, they have no sense. This is going on. If they had sense, they would immediately reply, "You are not giving the bread. God has given this bread." Because he prepared bread from the wheat. And wheat has been given by God. "You cannot prepare food. Therefore God has given."
Nitāi: So our business is to convince them that they can't be happy in the material world?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That they have got experience. Therefore daily they are founding so many parties, manufacturing so many means and plans and this and that, but they are not happy. But they are so fool, great fool, that in spite of being repeatedly baffled, still, punaḥ punaś carv..., the same thing, under different form. What is the difference between these rascal communists and capitalists? After all, they are animals. How they can make things, better arrangement? That is not possible. The only thing... This man will say, "Exploit others," and other man shall, "Give food to the others." What is there? Give food to the others or exploit—the same animal propensity. Where is the advancement? The capitalists are thinking, "Exploit others." The same thing, like animals. This dog, as soon as he saw the shadow of his own body with the food, he thought that "Let me capture that food." This is exploitation. And another will say "No, first of all give food." So they are fighting like this. So everyone's aim is that we shall remain within this material world and happy. Therefore gṛha-vratānām.
Prabhupāda: I may say in this connection, in America, the laborer class is very highly paid. Anyone, any labor class man can earn $25, $50, daily, very easily. But because there is no direction of the brain, these labor class of men—I have seen—they—especially these Negroes—51%, they are drunkards. They spend their money in drinking. They do not know how to utilize the money. Because the brain is not giving direction. Or they have no brain. "I have got so money. How I shall utilize it?" As soon as he gets money, he use it, he uses it for drinking. You may think that you are sufficiently paying to the labor class, worker class, but because he is not guided by brain, he is misspending the money.
C. Hennis: We are interested in that, too. We are interested in that, too. We don't want to tell people how to spend their money. We think that this would be...
Prabhupāda: You haven't got to say. But because he hasn't got brain, because he is not guided by the brain, he will misspend and create disturbance in the society.
Prabhupāda: Cloth. Then comes coat or shirt or so many things. So cotton is everywhere. Similarly, the spiritual energy is everywhere, but it is transformed by different processes. Therefore the Vedic injunction is sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Everything is Brahman. Our philosophy is that everything being Kṛṣṇa's energy, everything should be employed for Kṛṣṇa's service. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The property is Kṛṣṇa's. By Kṛṣṇa's energy, everything has come into existence. Therefore everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Therefore everything should be employed for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction, for His pleasure. Suppose you create something... You create some building, you create some family, you create some... So many things. You want to enjoy it. Otherwise, why you create? Why you take the responsibility of a family? For your enjoyment. Otherwise who takes care of the family? So similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person. He has created us, Kṛṣṇa's family. We also address Kṛṣṇa, "O Father, give us our daily bread." And He's actually giving us bread. Not only us, to all the living entities. So it is a big family, and Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer. So we should all be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Reaction. Everything... Yajñārthe karmaṇo yatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). Whatever you do, you are bound up by the reaction. That is nature's law. (break) ...and occasionally there will be big war, and they'll kill themselves. That's all. Now they are killing animals. That is a separate from human being. But time will come, the human beings, they will kill themselves, one another. Not only one, two, but wholesale. Daily, millions or thousands will be killed. They want to avoid war. For that reason, they invented the United Nations. Eh?
Bhagavān: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: So why they want to avoid war? What is the reason?
Bhagavān: For avoiding war?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But in your Bible you say, "O Father." Relation is father and son. Why do you say in the Bible "O Father, give us our daily bread"? So that you make relation with God as father.
Priest: But...
Prabhupāda: But not anything, but father. As the father gives the maintenance, bread, so you go to God in that relationship, "Father, give us our daily bread." Just like the child asks the father, "Father, give me something to eat." So this is clear relationship father and son.
French Man: No, it's a very complicated system, the system for all these things in the (indistinct) of this country. There are two main conceptions—the Oriental conception of the Orthodox Church and the Western...
Prabhupāda: No, we are not talking of any particular church. We are just trying to understand the word relation. If you go to particular church, then another will give another church, another will give another church. But we are trying to understand the word relationship. So in the Bible it is clearly said, "O Father," so the relation is father and son.
Prabhupāda: What is that experience? You ask, "Father, give us our daily bread," and that is experience. God is giving everyone maintenance. That is our actual relationship. In the Vedas also it is said, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). That is the God. God is also a person as you are person, I am person, but He is the chief person. Nityo nityānām, the chief, the Supreme. In the dictionary it is said Supreme Being. We are all beings, and He is Supreme Being. How He is supreme? Eka, that one; God is one. Bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He supplies the necessities of everyone's life. That is very good experience, we are getting everything from God. And the Christians also pray, "Give us our daily bread." So I don't find any difference between the statement in the Vedas and the Bible. God is the Supreme Person, and you make relationship with Him any way—as master and servant, as friend and friend, as father and son, or as husband and wife. So somehow or other we are related with God, this way or that way. The husband also maintains the wife.
Prabhupāda: Muhammadanism also Vaiṣṇavism, because Muhammad says, "I am servant of God, Allah." So that is our conception, dāsya-rasa, dāsya. Śānta, dāsya, sakhya, vātsalya, mādhurya. So prayer, offering prayer, that is also bhakti. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam arcanaṁ vandanam. Just like we are worshiping Deity and somebody is offering prayer—both of them are approved. Prayer, vandanam. Dāsyam sakhyam ātma-nivedanam. So we don't say that this is bad and this is good. No. Both of them are bhakti. To worship the Deity or to offer prayer, the effect is the same. Effect is not different. Either of these nine processes,
- śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ
- smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam
- arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ
- sakhyam ātma-nivedanam
- (SB 7.5.23)
Either you follow all the nine principles or eight or six or seven, at least one, then you become perfect. That is our preaching. Just like Akrūra, the example is given. Akrūra got perfection simply by offering prayers. So I see when the Christian go to the church, in India I have seen, in Bombay especially, they kneel down and offer prayer. That's very good. We do not say that this is not approved. This is also approved. What is this Hare Kṛṣṇa? This is also prayer. Hare Kṛṣṇa, "O Kṛṣṇa, O the energy of Kṛṣṇa, kindly engage me in Your service." This is the meaning of Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is prayer. Repeatedly praying, "My Lord, the energy of Lord, kindly engage me in Your service." This is the meaning of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Just like you go to a mercantile firm with application, "Please give me some service. Give me some service," the same thing, appealing to God and His energy, "Please engage me in your service." So that is vandana. So vandana, and Christian also they pray, "O God, give us our daily bread." So this is also good, but it is material, asking something for material satisfaction. And here, Hare Kṛṣṇa, asking something for satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa, "Engage me is Your service," little advanced because God is supplying bread to everyone, even to the cats and dogs.
Prabhupāda: No, you said. Somebody said it is, Christ said...
Nitāi: That's in what they call the Lord's Prayer, which was given by Christ himself. All the Catholics say that daily.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Nitāi: The Catholics repeat that prayer daily.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Nitāi: The Lord's Prayer.
Prabhupāda: What is that prayer?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: One devotee, he asked to Christ, "How should I pray?"
Prabhupāda: Hmm.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: He said, "Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil, for Thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory for ever and ever."
Prabhupāda: Very nice prayer. Very nice prayer. (pause)
Prabhupāda: Oh, sandeśa. It is milk preparation. Give him one more. No, no. This sandeśa, you give him one more. So our recommendation is, "Don't kill cow." Take milk and make thousands of preparations, all nutritious and very healthy. They do not know how to use cow. Instead of killing, if we take, let the animal live and give us milk, and from the milk, we make hundreds of preparations. The milk is nothing but blood, transformation of blood. So we take the blood by killing the animal, but we do not wish to kill such an important animal, but they take the blood in form of milk and make preparation. And those who are flesh-eaters, let them wait for the death of the cow. Then let them eat the flesh, not living condition. So we are making preparation that keep the cows, protect the cows, and when the cow dies, the flesh-eater may take it away. So he can take the skin, he can take the hoof, he can take the horn, he can take the flesh, everything, whatever he likes. Because when it is dead, it is no more useful for us. So the others, who are interested with the skin, in the flesh, in the hoof, they can take it. And they get it free. Without any cost. Because after death, we don't want it. So this is our program. Let the cows live. We take sufficient milk. We are getting milk, one thousand pounds. One thousand pounds daily in our, one center, New Vrindaban, Virginia.
Pṛthu Putra: He says in the daily life there is varieties. If something wrong, we do something right. But when we are speaking about spiritual elevated life, everything is one.
Prabhupāda: Yes, when the spirit is gone, then your daily life is also gone. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says yes, for sure, we all die.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore daily life means so long the spirit is there. As soon as the spirit is gone, there is no more daily life. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says but the goal...
Prabhupāda: Has the dead man has any daily life? (French)
Yogeśvara: He says his daily life is just lying in his coffin.
Prabhupāda: That is daily life? That is perpetual life. (chuckles)
Karandhara: No, ask him is death always the solution? If we're in ignorance or we're suffering, when I die, even if I don't attain Zen within this life, when I die, does that solve all the problems? (French)
Prabhupāda: That I said already. The cats and dogs, they are also having the same result without any Zen philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Improving, yes. Just near that Asiatic Society we held our Hare Kṛṣṇa Festival in front of, I think, the museum.
Professor La Combe: Yes, on Chowringhee.
Prabhupāda: Yes, and it was very successful. Daily, thirty thousand people were assembling.
Professor La Combe: This year?
Prabhupāda: No. (break in tape) ...God conscious. So the leaders suppressing. This is the present position. The leaders are more or less communists, and they are suppressing their natural outflow and that is the position now.
Professor La Combe: But I think that nowadays the situation in Calcutta is better. You would not have the same kind of difficulties this year I suppose.
Prabhupāda: No, it is easier now. In 1970, '69 there was no security. When you go out, there is no security whether you'll come back. Yes. You were at that time there? No.
Devotee: No, I arrived there just after. I arrived in Bombay when that was happening. The Naxalites...
Prabhupāda: Any man walking on the street can be killed. It was the situation.
Prabhupāda: Christians, they cannot say that God is impersonal. (French) Because, because Christ is son of God. So the son is person. How the Father can be imperson? And in the Bible it is said, "There was word in the beginning." That is God's word. So if one has a word, then He's a person. Word comes from the tongue and mouth. As soon as there is word, background is tongue and mouth. And then... The Christians pray in the church, "Oh, God, give us our daily bread." So God has got ear so that He will hear and supply. But His personality, His word, His hearing, they're all transcendental, nonmaterial. (French)
Jyotirmayī: So he says he agrees on this point. As you say, God is... We have a personal relationship with God.
Prabhupāda: Yes, God is person. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). Absolute Truth is realized from three angles of vision, Brahman, Paramātmā and Bhagavān. Bhagavān is person, and Paramātmā, all-pervading, localized, and Brahman, impersonal. Just like the sunshine is impersonal the sun globe, localized, and the sun-god person. (break)
Jyotirmayī: He says he's accepting some of the things you are saying, but he's doesn't think that he's obliged to accept everything.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes. Everything is emanation from God. That is our Vedānta-sūtra. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Whatever things are there... In the Bible, also there is... "Everything comes from Him, what is made." Yesterday, we were reading? Yes. So whatever is created, that is made out of God. And the Vedic injunction is sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma: "Everything is Brahman, the Supreme Brahman." So the impersonal feature is an expansion of God's energy. Just like the sunshine is expansion of the energy of sun, so the sunshine is resting on the bodily rays of the sun-god. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, brahmaṇaḥ ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā. The resting place of the impersonal Brahman is God, Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is our point, that if we understand, every one of us realize that we are all servant of God or sons of God, that everything belongs to God, so we can use our father's property for our maintenance as much as we require, not more than that, so if we think like that, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and there will be no more war, everything peaceful.
Professor Durckheim: In my work I always feel the great difficulty again and again. That is also there. It's a great difference to believe that you are the son of God and to feel it and to experience it. As long it's only a belief, it's well meaning doing. How to prepare the conditions by which disciples might feel it? That's all of my daily work.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like... It is very simple thing. Just like if I say... Suppose you have not seen your father. You are posthumous child. But you must believe that there is father. Without father there is no possibility of my existence. That is belief. And in the Christian...
Professor Durckheim: Experience it.
Prabhupāda: This is experience. The Christian people, they go to church: "O God, give us our daily... Father, give us our daily bread." So there is the supreme Father.
Prof. Pater Porsch: Without drugs.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And one Christian priest he showed one pamphlet that these boys, they're our boys but before this they're not coming to the church. They do not want to ask anything about God. Now they're mad after God. How is it? He admitted, "They're our men." And I give you another example. In our Los Angeles temple—this was a church, big church—but it was not going on. It was being closed. And it was sold to us. And now you go and see there is daily thousands of... the same men, the same place. The crowd is so... Why? I have not brought all these men from India. Judge. Unless it is something sublime, how they're accepting it? And they're all young boys. Not that they have become old, therefore they're seeking after God. (everyone laughs) And young men have got so many aspirations, they go to the restaurant to smoke, to enjoy girlfriend, boyfriend, these... They have given up everything.
Prabhupāda: But if you miss one point, if you commit mistake in calculation in one point, the more you make calculation, add and subtract, it is all mistake. (German) Just like in the bank they daily make a trial balance, and if there is one mistake anywhere, the trial balance does not come.
Pater Emmanuel: I understand.
Prabhupāda: This is called ardha-kukkuṭī-nyāya (Cc. Ādi-līlā 5.176). If you... I will explain. Ardha-kukkuṭī-nyāya means there is a logic of accepting half of the chicken. The chicken or what is called, cock, that?
Haṁsadūta: Oh, the rooster, hens.
Prabhupāda: Hens, rooster, rooster. No, the female is called hen?
Haṁsadūta: Hen.
Prabhupāda: Hen. The hen is giving egg and, by the backside, by the rectum, and eating by the mouth. So one man is considering that "This mouthpiece is expensive because I have to give to eat. Better cut it." So if the mouth is cut, then there will be no egg because it's a dead body. So this is not good logic, (laughing) that the expensive portion may be cut and the profitable portion may be kept. This kind of interpretation will not be helpful. If you accept the whole, this side and that side, then business will go on.
Prabhupāda: I say it is very nice, immediately. Because he was embracing tree also. So that is God consciousness, advanced God consciousness. Because everywhere there is part and parcel of God. Any way, either materially or spiritually. In our childhood, actually what I am doing, it was all taught in our childhood by our parents, my family. We were taught, "There is a grain of rice on the ground, and if it is touched by your feet, you should pick up the grain and touch on your head." This was our training. The idea behind—that the grain of rice is not man-made. It is sent by God. "O God, give us our daily bread." So here is the bread. It is God's mercy. Just see how idea, great idea. What is given by God, that is also God. This is God consciousness. You are asking God's mercy. So God's mercy is also God, the Absolute. So how can you disrespect a thing which is given by God? You cannot produce rice. You cannot produce bread. It is given by God. Everything... Therefore Kṛṣṇa said, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya (BG 7.8). Just try to understand Kṛṣṇa from the beginning of drinking water. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said that "The taste of the water, I am." So water, or any liquid thing you are drinking, if you are feeling some pleasure, ānanda... Ānandamaya. That God is ānanda. So there is the sample of ānanda. So if we simply practice this, that wherever I derive some pleasure, that is God, then you become God conscious. To become God conscious is not difficult.
Madhudviṣa: Sometimes a question is arisen that devotees are working hard to serve Kṛṣṇa, but sometimes they don't feel that they are working in love and devotion. They are doing the work, but sometimes...
Prabhupāda: Yes, in the beginning there is no love. Let him work on the direction of God's representative. (break) Therefore it has been warned, arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matir vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. The Deity of Viṣṇu, if one thinks, "This is made of stone; this is made of wood; this is made of metal," and spiritual master as ordinary human being, these are hellish considerations. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matiḥ. Guruṣu means the spiritual master. Nara-matiḥ, a ordinary human being. And vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. And Vaiṣṇava, a devotee—"Oh, he is brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇava. He is European Vaiṣṇava. He is this Vaiṣṇava, that..." No. These are forbidden. Vaiṣṇava is Vaiṣṇava. Spiritual master... They are all transcendental. In... of course, in this country you are introducing new, but in India... Just like we had been at Tirupati, Tirumala. Many thousands of people were coming, and their daily collection is not less than 100,000 rupees. And do you think these people are coming to offer these 100,000 rupees daily to a stone? And the ācāryas established this temple for bluffing these people? Does it mean, their collecting? They do not know the science, rascals. And therefore simply... Sinful life cannot help.
Brahmānanda: They should have a meeting until the order is given.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "Until the order is given, we shall hold meeting here. Daily." And tell them that "It is, it is police government. Then we should, we should give up British connection." Agitate government that "It has become a police government." Best course will be like that, that "As usual, we shall keep the ratha there. We are not moving." And hold on, go on protest meeting, doing. And keep them there. Let them arrest and go to jail. That is the real effort. (pause) Or one thing do... Satī sārthaṁ samācaret. Therefore I wanted to start this politics. There say, "It is, it is our custom. Unless the ratha is there, there is no ceremony. So you have asked to palanquin. We shall make the ratha here, standing. And after holding our ceremony we shall take the Deity in palanquin and go to the Trafalgar Square. And go to the Trafalgar Square and hold meeting there. But the ratha must be there. It will not move. It will stand here. We shall take the Deities in palanquin and go to the Trafalgar Square." In this way, take police permission, and after going there, along with the ceremony, protest.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: It is not problem; it is practice. If you come here daily, within a week you will learn.
Professor: Every night?
Prabhupāda: Yes. We can give you hundreds of preparations, vegetarian.
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): They asked if we're eating anything, so I said we eat before and after all of them.
Prabhupāda: We shall eat also. (break) So I request you to come every Sunday and take feast with us. (break)
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He wants to know, for example, if I eat meat today, if I lose my chance for enlightenment.
Prabhupāda: No, you do not lose. You hear from the enlightened. Then you will be enlightened, and you will automatically give up meat-eating. Therefore our business is to hear from the enlightened. That is the first business. Other things not immediately needed. Even if you cannot give up meat-eating, still, you hear from the enlightened.
Guest (6): Yes, I understand now. I spoke earlier with some people... In other words you say we are co-eternal with the father just as Christ is.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are all eternal. That is nityo nityānām. I have already explained. Nitya means eternal. There are two eternals: one chief eternal, God, and one subordinate eternals, they are plural number. God is one, and we are many. Father is one; the children are many. Similarly, both the father and the children are eternal. God is not created, and the childrens are not created. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, na jāyate na mriyate vā. All these living entity, they are never created; neither they ever die. Nityaḥ śāśvatam na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). They are eternal, ever existing. Even after the destruction of the body, they are not annihilated. So God is eternal. That I have already explained. And we living entities, we are also eternal. How the son can be otherwise? If the father is eternal, the son is also eternal. The son cannot be... Because son is the expansion, part and parcel of the father, so all the qualities of the father are there. The only quality difference is the father maintainer and the sons are maintained. That means the father has got unlimited resources to maintain the sons, and the sons, they have no resources. They are maintained by the father. This is perfect philosophy. Otherwise, if you are self-sufficient, then why you go to church and beg father, "Give us our daily bread"? That is... That means you are maintained. You are begging the father, "Please maintain us." So if the Supreme Being, who is maintaining millions of trillions of living entities, He is great, or the living entities who are maintained by God, they are great? Therefore God is great, and we are subordinate. This is natural conclusion. How you can go otherwise? If you are self-sufficient, why go to church and pray, "God, give us our daily bread"? Are you independent?
Guest (6): No. I am a creature.
Prabhupāda: Matter is a manifestation of life's energy. We can daily experience. The matter, hair is growing. Cut, again growing. Why? Because there is life. Dead body, hair never grows. Is it not?
Mādhava: Well the scientists will say it's just recombination of matter.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, when there is body dead, no hair grows.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's a nice example.
Prabhupāda: They can use some bombastic word but we layman, we see this is the position. And you do not know how it is being done but the energy is there in you. That is called acintya-śakti, inconceivable energy. That is there. Now you shave every morning and next morning, again millions of hairs. You do not know how it is being happening. But it is happening, and this is called acintya-śakti. From Kṛṣṇa such big, big things are coming out. Even Kṛṣṇa may not know but Kṛṣṇa has got the inconceivable by which it is coming. The same example.
Bernard Manischewitz: This is on experience, on the experience that they have.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is experience. You will find many healthy persons in India subsisting only on these foodstuffs, and they have good brain also. India is still, I think, eighty percent people are strictly vegetarian. Not to speak of the higher class, but the lower class also. The higher class, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya and vaiśya. Vaiśya is via media, between higher and lower. And the śūdras and less that the śūdras, caṇḍālas, they are lower class. So meat-eating is current among these lower class of men, śūdras and caṇḍālas. The caṇḍālas, they have no discrimination, they eat everything, and śūdras, they eat meat, but under restriction. Some of them do not; some of them do, but under restriction, and that is restricted with the goat animal. Less than the śūdras-caṇḍālas, pañcama, fifth grade—they eat everything. Especially they eat—because cow protection in India is very strict—so these caṇḍālas, fifth grade men, they eat generally pigs. Pigs they eat. Outside the village, they have their residential quarters, and they fry live pigs. And they make... Not daily; sometimes. But they eat pigs, and amongst them, there is a class—they are cobblers—they eat this cows' flesh when the animal is dead, not living and we'll kill.
Prabhupāda: In India, Tirupati, I that Deity is richer than many kings in the world. Daily, 100,000 rupees, not (indistinct), daily. (break) Which king who has got so much money? If you organize, you can take the whole income for cause of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if you are really organized. That is possible.
Devotee: Where is this temple?
Prabhupāda: In South India.
Devotee: South India.
Devotee: (indistinct) (barely audible) ...industrialists they are making life very difficult.
Prabhupāda: Where, where?
Devotee: In India.
Prabhupāda: In India. Oh.
Atreya Ṛṣi: "And chanting sixteen rounds very seriously."
Madhudviṣa: Daily.
Atreya Ṛṣi: "Daily."
Madhudviṣa: At least.
Brahmānanda: And free from the offenses.
Haṁsadūta: We have to take some...
Jayatīrtha: Who's chanting free from the offenses?
Prabhupāda: No, no, don't...
Atreya Ṛṣi: "Very seriously" is all I can say.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, do that.
Prabhupāda: Then preach Kṛṣṇa's philosophy. That is Kṛṣṇa's order.
Guest (3): Daily we celebrate that Rādhā-kalyāṇa.
Prabhupāda: Why you play Rādhā-kalyāṇa? Preach Kṛṣṇa's philosophy. Why do you go to Rādhā? First of all try to understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā has never said about Rādhā. That is very confidential. So why do you jump to Rādhā? Has Kṛṣṇa said anything about Rādhārāṇī in the Bhagavad-gītā?
Guest (3): Even in the Bhāgavatam you don't see the...
Prabhupāda: No, Rādhā... There, Bhāgavata, there is. That is foolish proposition, "In the Bhāgavata there is no Rādhārāṇī." There is. But at least in the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa has never said about His Vṛndāvana-līlā. No. That is very confidential. That is not for common man. The common man, first of all let him understand what is Kṛṣṇa. That is Bhagavad-gītā. That they do not understand. Even big, big leaders, politicians, scholars, they do not understand. Because they do not take to Kṛṣṇa's instruction, therefore they fail to understand. And what they'll understand about Rādhārāṇī? You... If you are my confidential friend, then I can take to my family. And if you are outsider, why should you expect to come into my family life? This is common sense. You do not understand Kṛṣṇa, and you want to understand Kṛṣṇa's dealings with Rādhārāṇī. That is very confidential.
Prabhupāda: Here there are many adopted son. A rich man has no son. He adopts somebody, rascal, and he spends money like... There are so many instance. Squanders. He'll be satisfied after finishing... There are many instances. In our childhood, many you have heard, you have seen one, when the adopted son (indistinct) ...big property and he was not satisfied to squander all the money unless it became (indistinct) That I've seen. He had many cars and I saw him, he was drenched by water, rainfall, sitting in a rickshaw. Nobody cares for him. When he was rich, big, big men would come to see him, even Burdwan Mahārāja. Now I saw him that he was in Dharmatala, it was raining and he was sitting in a rickshaw. Nobody cares for him. And he was satisfied at that time after finishing the whole money. Otherwise hundreds and two hundred friends, there was very big house, bring, I mean to say, received as guests daily. (indistinct) His name was Arendranath(?) Sil.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a Hindu name?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Bengali.
Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā is not that, five thousand years ago, not like that. Just like you cannot say the sun is now coming. It is there. It is there always. You are seeing now. They used to think like that—at night the sun is dead. These rascals. And they are advanced. They used to think that this earth is square. (laughing) And they are advanced. They are changing their opinion daily. That is their scientific knowledge. Why should they change?
Amogha: They say this means they are discovering the truth, step by step.
Prabhupāda: That means you do not know the truth. That is a fact. You do not know—simply speculating. You are accepting some spot—this is truth. And after some days, "No, no, this is not truth, this is truth." This is your position.
Paramahaṁsa: Many of the scientific textbooks that were written twenty years ago are all outdated. Can't use them any more.
Prabhupāda: Useless. So this scientific at the present moment, after twenty years they'll be useless. This is your scientific.
Prabhupāda: They say, "God is great," but they do not know how great He is. That is explained in the Vedic literature. Of course, those who are saying "God is great," they are pious. And those who are saying that "I am God," how foolish they are. Therefore I say that anyone who says, "I am God," immediately kick with your shoes on his face. Such a cheater.
Amogha: There is... One of the disciples of Guru Maharaj-ji, Bala Yogesvara, is in Perth. They have their center here. And he is giving lectures daily, and many people are attending.
Prabhupāda: That he is God.
Amogha: I was talking to one Buddhist monk, and I asked him, "What is your actual practice? What is your daily schedule?" And he said, "Well, we get up around sunrise and go out with our begging bowls and fill it up and then come back at about 11:00 to the temple. And then we sit down and eat everything in the begging bowl. And then we take rest." I said, "What about the rest of the day?" And he said, "Well, that's all free, open time."
Amogha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we are distributing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you explain that it's best to start from the beginning and go gradually. So...
Prabhupāda: No, anywhere you can see.
Amogha: So we can distribute any canto.
Paramahaṁsa: Usually what happens is a person who gets, say, the Second or Third or Fourth Canto, if he reads that, then he will want to start from the beginning, and he'll buy the First Canto.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, even if he does not read the First Canto, wherever he will read, he will get benefit. Sugar candy you taste from anywhere it is sweet.
Śrutakīrti: That is sāṅkhya-yoga?
Prabhupāda: No. This is my interpretation. He is also creating; you are also creating. You can create a motorcar and He can create a huge, gigantic sun globe. The same process. As you are controlling the aeroplane by air condition or by controlling the air, similarly all these planets are there. It is by His plan it is moving with the air. Big, big planets, there is no question of gravitation. That is nonsense. It is by His arrangement it is moving in the air. Just like big, big cloud containing millions of tons of water floating in the air. How it is being done? Eh? Millions of tons of water are floating in the air. That we see daily. So similarly, all these planets are floating by His arrangement. Not only floating. Making center that polestar, all the planets are moving around it, even the sun. So it is by His arrangement.
Prabhupāda: They are daily one or two gentlemen, like you they are coming. But they find our prescription very strict. (laughter) And... but we are not going to change it. We are not after vox populi. That is not our concern. We have got our standard method.
Director: Yeah, sure. I believe that you should have these standards if you want them, if anybody wants them.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is making us successful. We do not make any compromise. This is our method. If you like, you take it. If you don't like, you go away. Don't mind.
Director: If you can convince the society to change, then the public servants will change.
Prabhupāda: Yes, we are in the society, we are inviting everyone, they are coming. They are coming. Gradually they are becoming converted to this.
Prabhupāda: What is the use, coming here, spending so much motor oil to steal this?
Gurukṛpa: No, we are doing that anyway. We are doing that anyway. To pick these flowers daily, they are going so many places and being chased away. They would rather see them rot than to give them to us. They don't let us pick. (break)
Prabhupāda: All nonsense. They are professing I am Christian, I am Hindu, I am Muslim, but they are enemies, one another. So where is their religion? Just see, common sense. Even the animals, amongst themselves, they do not say "Keep out." Sit down together. They sit down actually. The birds, beasts of the same position, they keep together. Birds of the same feather flock... But human being, having, professing so many religions-enemies. This is their civilization. They discover better religion, but enemies to the animal, to the man, everyone. Therefore Bhāgavata religion is meant for persons who are not enemies. Paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2). That is religion. We have come to here from India not as enemy but as friend, to give you Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is dharma. Although politically they are enemies-India is thinking "America is my enemy," or America is thinking "India is my enemy"—we do not think like that. We go everywhere, take Kṛṣṇa consciousness, be happy. This is our business. Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satām. "Private. Keep out."
Prabhupāda: This is the sample of religious man. And what is irreligious? If the religious men kill so many chickens daily, then what is the irreligious man do?
Siddha-svarūpa: They're vegetarians. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: He kills the chicken and fry it in oil. And that is sold.
Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. Big money. They...
Ambarīṣa: He's also very involved in politics.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā? He's a politician also?
Ambarīṣa: Yeah. At the Democratic convention he supplies all the politicians with unlimited fried chicken.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā? (laughter) (break)
Siddha-svarūpa: He also sells, I think. But this other chain of restaurants, McDonald's, they are very proud. They announce how many hamburgers they have sold. They have branches everywhere in the world.
Prabhupāda: Hamburger means?
Siddha-svarūpa: Uh, that's beef.
Prabhupāda: ...nice. Ask him to bring daily. (break) ...portion is being watered specifically?
Siddha-svarūpa: I think they move them around.
Śrutakīrti: They have little things sticking up and they put these sprinklers on them.
Prabhupāda: The pipe is everywhere.
Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...it is called horizontal? And this way vertical? Word is ota-prota. Ota means this horizontal, and prota means vertical.
Bali-mardana: In English this is vertical.
Prabhupāda: This is vertical? This is horizontal.
Prabhupāda: This is going on. This is science. bambhārambhe laghu-kriyā. So our Rāmeśvara Prabhu, where is? You have got now machine arrangement, such nice—you can produce daily one book. (laughter) And if you cannot do so then it is like that moon planet. Bambhārambhe laghu-kriyā. It is very nice to see that so many machines are..., but what is the result? If you produce one book daily, then these machines are properly utilized.
Rāmeśvara: We will produce whatever you translate the same day, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Now you can produce the fifteen books which is...
Devotee: In fifteen days. (break)
Prabhupāda: Find out how to do it. Simply you don't be satisfied that you have got so many nice machines. (break) ...the Baptist Church vehicle is there, that bus.
Prabhupāda: How many visitors come?
Nitāi: Well, daily three families will be there.
Devotee: Every evening āratika there are almost one hundred visitors at evening āratika.
Nitāi: To see the temple, whole buses come. Over a hundred rupees a day are collected just by...
Prabhupāda: Visitors?
Nitāi: Visitors or are giving for prasādam, contributions to the Deities. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...is neat and clean?
Nitāi: Yes. It's very nice, very nicely kept.
Prabhupāda: ...Pradyumna? (break)
Nitāi: I have heard many people in Vṛndāvana say that our temple is the best in Vṛndāvana.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact.
Prabhupāda: He speaks Sanskrit also?
Nitāi: Yes. Speaks it. He lectures in Sanskrit.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that's good.
Nitāi: While he was in Vṛndāvana, we were taking daily a class with him in Bhagavad-gītā. We would read Viśvanātha Cakravartī's commentary.
Prabhupāda: Where is our car? (break)
Brahmānanda: ...they would help us acquire land for a Gurukula. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...sent Praṇava, how is that there is no news about the land? (end)
Prabhupāda: That will be all right?
Nitāi: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Then you can do that. They are composing hundred pages?
Rāmeśvara: Daily?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rādhā-vallabha: Not a hundred pages. A hundred verses, each person. Each composer, one hundred verses approximately.
Prabhupāda: Oh. And one verse means one page average? No.
Rādhā-vallabha: Two verses per page.
Rāmeśvara: Two or three verses per page.
Rādhā-vallabha: Two.
Jayatīrtha: So between all the composers a hundred pages a day.
Rāmeśvara: Oh, between all the composers, more than a hundred pages.
Rādhā-vallabha: We are going fast enough so far to do the seventeen books.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Prabhupāda: Oh. He's earning forty dollars daily?
Jayatīrtha: At least.
Prabhupāda: Just see. For picking up the paper they have to pay so much. (break) (walking:) ...is we want to distribute books vigorously because general public, they have not yet understood what is the importance of this movement; neither they have any knowledge. The general public, maybe with some exception in India, they are simply like cats and dogs. They have no knowledge, that what is the purpose of this life (indistinct) and... Pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca na vidur āsurāḥ janā. That is stated. Pravṛtti means what we should accept, what kind of life we should accept and what kind of life we shall reject. This is their first ignorance.
Prabhupāda: ...daily, guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā **, what is that?
Nitāi: Cittete koriyā aikya.
Prabhupāda:
- ār nā koriho mane āśā
So guru, your guru has said that "You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, observe these rules." Do that, don't speculate, and you will understand everything. (break) ...daily
guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya,
- ār nā koriho mane āśā **
No speculation, do it.
Devotee (2): Can you explain exactly what speculation means?
Prabhupāda: Speculation means thinking, "What will happen? Maybe like this, maybe like this." That is speculation. (break) ...speculate, "Kṛṣṇa may be like this. Kṛṣṇa may be like this." That is speculation. When Kṛṣṇa appears before you, you see, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is like this." That is wanted. And if you speculate, "Kṛṣṇa may be like this," it is all nonsense. Come to the stage when Kṛṣṇa will appear before you, and you will see what is Kṛṣṇa. Be qualified to that position. Māyāvādīs, they are speculating simply, "God may be like this." Why "God may be like this?" God is factual, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa.
Jayatīrtha: Because the questions about the future of the society. Others devotees can answer this. Well, the philosophical questions that are not daily (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: We want to raise first-class man. Try to understand. The present society, we are creating fourth-class men. Therefore we are not in very happy condition. We want to raise the fourth-class man to first-class man. First-class man means with qualification who can control the mind, control the senses, always very cleansed and truthful, very simple, full of all kinds of knowledge, practical application in life, then to have full knowledge of God, these are the characteristics of first-class man. So at the present moment everyone is a fourth-class man. So we want to get some first-class men. That is required. Because there is no idea, first-class man, therefore people are becoming full of crimes. You have seen the article in the Time? "Crime, Why and What to Do?" That is the concern of the materialistic society. So we are trying to raise a group of men who will be ideal. Just like our devotees. You will find their characters different from all others, at least in your country. They do not have illicit sex, they do not eat meat, they do not have any intoxication, even smoking or taking tea, they do not indulge in gambling, they chant holy name of God, lead very simple life. So we are creating first-class men. There is need. It is not that everyone will become first-class man, but at least a section of man must be first-class so that others can see that what is the ideal character of man.
Prabhupāda: Collected.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But I heard that he is collecting $6,000 daily.
Brahmānanda: Six hundred.
Prabhupāda: Six hundred, oh.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He collected twelve thousand, but his party is increasing in size.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he can organize (laughs). Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...Philadelphia to see you at the Rathayātrā.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Break) When important talks will be, I shall say. You can record. (end)
Prabhupāda: Ahaituky apratihatā. Why don't you understand? Preaching cannot be checked by anything—if you want to preach. In any circumstances you can preach. Prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā. Preaching can be executed by four things: by your life, by your money, by your intelligence, and by your words. You have got so many assets. So you can utilize it for preaching. Dedicate your life. If you think that you are family man, you cannot dedicate twenty-four hours, then earn money and give it to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement as other family men, they are earning money. Eh? Is it not? You can earn. In America there is good facility for earning money. They want that you work and take money. So earn money as gṛhastha and give it to Kṛṣṇa. Prāṇair arthair. If you cannot earn money, then use your intelligence. There are so many intellectual work: publication, going to this officer, that officer. You, intellectually you try. And vācā, by words. If you cannot do anything, go anyone, anywhere and say that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, just offer your obeisances." Finished. So where is the scarcity? You can serve Kṛṣṇa in any capacity-provided you want to serve. And if you want to engage Kṛṣṇa for your service, that is blunder. Then it is blunder. You cannot engage Kṛṣṇa to your service. The everyone is trying to engage Kṛṣṇa for his service. They are going to the church, "O Kṛṣṇa, give us our daily bread," that "You serve me. You give us our daily bread and serve me." And our proposition is, Yaśodāmayī, "Kṛṣṇa, You are playing all day. Come on! Take food first of all." This is service. They are going to Kṛṣṇa for asking daily bread. And here Yaśodāmayī is commanding, "Come here! If You don't eat, You will get lean and thin. Come on." This is Vaiṣṇava philosophy.
Prabhupāda: ...logic also it is admitted that inductive logic is imperfect; deductive logic is perfect. (break) ...logic means śrota-panthā, paramparā, śruti, Vedic language, śruti. Śruti pramāṇa. Pramāṇa means evidence, and śruti means Veda. Pratyakṣa, anumāna, śruti. Pratyakṣa means direct, direct evidence, and anumāna, hypothesis. That is Darwin's theory, something like that. And śruti, Vedic. So out of these three kinds of evidences, śruti-pramāṇa is accepted as supreme, neither anumāna nor pratyakṣa. Pratyakṣa, you are seeing the sky, but you cannot say the length and breadth. You cannot say. You are seeing daily. If you say, "I have got this telescope," so that is an imperfect. and how you can see with your eyes directly, direct sense perception? Hypothesis, anumāna, guessing, that is also not perfect. And śruti, we take śruti from the perfect person, Kṛṣṇa. He says, aham evāsam agre: "Before the creation I was there." We take simply.
Prabhupāda: Religion means primarily to know God and love Him. That is religion. And nobody knows God, and what to speak of loving Him? Nobody is trained up how to know God and how to love Him. They are satisfied by going to the church: "O God, give us our daily bread." That also not everyone goes. So the Communist says that "You don't go to the church. Bread we shall supply." So poor innocent persons, they get bread elsewhere, so they do not go to church. But nobody is serious to understand what is God and how to love Him. Nobody is serious. Therefore in Bhāgavatam, it is said, it is cheating religion. I profess some religion, but I do not know what is God and how to love Him. That's all. So that type of religion is cheating religion. Religion means to know God and love Him. But generally, a man does not know what is God and what to speak of loving Him? So therefore that is cheating religion. That is not religion. But so far Christian religion is concerned, there is ample chance of understanding God. But they do not care for it. Take for example, the commandment is "Thou shall not kill." But in the Christian world, best slaughterhouses are maintained. So how they can become God conscious? They disobey the commandments, do not care for Lord Jesus Christ's order. So this is not only in Christian religion. Every religion, it is going on. It is simply rubber stamp. "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian." And none of them do know what is God and how to love Him.
Prabhupāda: Who teaches these things—how to know God and how to love Him—he is spiritual master. Otherwise bogus, rascal bogus. Sometimes they mislead that "I am God." Poor people, they do not know what is God, and a rascal proposes, "I am God," and they accept it. Just like in your country they elected Nixon president and again drag him. That means they did not know who is really bona fide president, elected somebody, and again they had to business of dragging out. Similarly, people are foolish. Any rascal comes. He says, "I am God." They accept. And again they accept another. This is going on. So one must be serious student to understand what is God and how to love Him. That is religion. Otherwise, it is simply waste of time. That we are teaching. That is the difference between others and our... We are presenting Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the science, how to know Him. The Bhagavad-gītā is there, Bhāgavata is there. Not bogus. Authorized. Therefore this is the only institution which can teach how to know God and how to love Him. Two business. There is no third business. It is not our business to ask God to give us our necessities. We know God gives necessities to everyone, even one who has no religion. Just like cats and dogs. They have no religion. They do not know what is religion. But still, the cats and dogs are supplied with necessities of life. So why we should bother Kṛṣṇa, asking Him, "Give us our daily bread"? He is supplying already. Our business is how to love Him. That is religion. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ atra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vāstavaṁ vastu vedyam atra (SB 1.1.2). Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ yato bhaktir adhokṣaje: "That is first-class religion which teaches how to love God."
Prabhupāda: Spiritual paths are divided into four. Not spiritual. Real spiritual, mixed spiritual. Just like this, "God, give us our daily bread." It is mixed spiritual. One has approached God, God is spiritual, but one is asking for material profit. So this is mixture, matter and spirit. So there are four classes generally known as karmī, fruitive actors, they work for getting some material profit. They are called karmī. Just like all men, you will see, they are working so hard day and night, driving their cars, (makes noise of cars) this way and that way. The purpose is how to get some money. This is called karmī. And then jñānī. Jñānī means he knows that "I am working so hard. Why? The birds, beasts, the elephants, big, big..., eight million different types of..., they are not. They have no business. They have no profession. How they are eating? So why unnecessarily I work so much? Let me know what is the problem of life." So they understand the problem of life is birth, death, old age and disease. And they want to solve it, how to become immortal. So they have conclusion that "If I merge into God's existence, then I become immortal or immune from birth, death, old age and disease." This is called jñānī. And some of them are yogis. They try to acquire some spiritual power to make a show how he can play wonder. A yogi can become very small. If you put him in a room, he will come out. You lock it. He will come out. If there is little space, he will come out. That is called anima.
Prabhupāda: So there are against and for. Why do you bother about the against? As there are some people against us, there are many people for us. So that is the position in every field of activity. So if somebody is against us, why should we bother about it. We are selling books daily, a huge amount. So there is no question of against us. Anyone who is even against us, he is persuaded to purchase one book. So how he is against us? He is purchasing our book. What is the daily amount of sales, our books?
Jayatīrtha: We sell about twenty-five thousand books and magazines a day.
Prabhupāda: What is the price?
Jayatīrtha: The collection would probably be around 35 to forty thousand dollars a day.
Prabhupāda: We are collecting forty thousand dollars a day by selling books. How I can say they are against us?
Sandy Nixon: You're very positive. I like that.
Prabhupāda: Where is the any other institution who can sell forty thousand dollars a day? So how do you say that they are against us?
Sandy Nixon: My last question. Could you tell me about the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra because it's so important to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And I'd like to have...
Prabhupāda: It is very simple. Hare means "O the energy of Lord," and Kṛṣṇa means "O Lord. Both of You kindly engage me in Your service." That's all.
Woman: I have just one more question, and that is also from an outsider's point of view. It appears to me that one of the most difficult aspects of Kṛṣṇa consciousness for someone to accept who's been brought up outside of that point of view is the Deities and the idea that they represent Kṛṣṇa. Could you talk a little bit about that?
Prabhupāda: Yes. At the present moment, because you are not trained up to see Kṛṣṇa, so Kṛṣṇa kindly appears before you as you can see. You can see wood, stone. You cannot see what is spirit. Even you don't see yourself. You are thinking, "I am this body." But you are spirit soul. You are seeing your father and mother daily, and when the father or mother dies, you cry. Why you are crying? "Now my father has gone." Where is your father gone? He is lying here. Why do you say he is gone? What is that thing which is gone? Why you say, "My father is gone," although lying on the bed? You have seen daily your father. Now you say, "My father is gone." So... But he is lying on the bed. So who has gone? What is your answer?
Woman: Where is God?
Jayatīrtha: Who has gone? If you see your dead father and you say that he is passed away, what has passed away?
Prabhupāda: Who is that father?
Woman: Only this material body is gone.
Prabhupāda: Material body is there, lying on the bed.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. So you are coming daily in our meeting?
Sandy Nixon: Not daily, but I'll come.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. This gentleman...?
Devotee: This is my father.
Father: Your Grace...
Prabhupāda: Oh. Thank you very much. (chuckles)
Devotee: And my mother.
Mother: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Oh. So you are all fortunate. You have got such a nice son.
Prabhupāda: That is stated in few verses, you find out this. Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya (SB 1.2.9).
Brahmānanda: In the First Canto?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya nārtho 'rthāyopakalpate. The first thing is that people become religious. Just like in your Christian religion they go to the church to get some material profit. "Oh God, give us our daily bread." This is material profit. Similarly, Hindus or Muslims, they become religious, dharma artha kāma mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90), the material activities. Those who are actually advanced... Those who are not even human beings, their philosophy is different. Those who are human beings, their dharma, religion. Then artha, economic development, and then kāma, sense gratification, and then mokṣa, liberation. These four things are taken as general activities. So Bhāgavata says your dharma... Religious principle means the ultimate goal is how to become liberated, not artha. Artha means economic development. So then question may be if you do not, if we are not economically developed then how we shall live? The Bhāgavata says that you can make economic development as far as it maintains your body and soul together. Not that making whole life economic development and real purpose of life forget. This is foolishness. So dharma, artha. Dharma means, religious advancement means how to get out of this material condition. Not that I go to temple and chant, "God, give me millions of dollars, and this, and that." This is not possible. It is good that one has gone to God to ask some help, that much credit is there.
Dharmādhyakṣa: So when the jīva soul descends into the material world, it is like a hallucination?
Prabhupāda: Yes. We get experience daily. In the daytime we have forgotten the night dream, and night dream we forget in this daytime existence. So which is correct? Therefore it is hallucination. (break)
Dharmādhyakṣa: ...one psychologist who believes man is his body but he talks very much about transcendence. Even the materialists now, they realize that the present condition is very miserable and this false ego is the cause of all problems, so they are seeking some form of transcendence. And many psychologists are talking about transcendence nowadays as the solution to life's problems.
Prabhupāda: What do they define about transcendence?
Dharmādhyakṣa: Well, actually they give all the characteristics of transcendence that are found in the Bhagavad-gītā but without saying that man is a spirit soul and without talking about Kṛṣṇa. They believe man should overcome duality, should be beyond attachment, should work for a higher goal in life, things like this, all the characteristics that Kṛṣṇa gives but without Kṛṣṇa.
Bahulāśva: It appears that they have taken these things from Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they must. What is this department? (break) ...cial science.
Prabhupāda: Even there is use, so where the use? We require daily things. (break) ...this fruit?
Dharmadhyksa: These are cones. This is a pine tree, and these are cones. What are cones used for?
Jayatīrtha: Seeds are in the pinecones. (break) ...cone the trees come.
Prabhupāda: Let them produce one seed like that. Sow it and a big tree will come out. Where is that scientist? Millions of living beings are coming out. You are trying to kill them, and they are trying to manufacture living being in the laboratory. And take credit. Where is the credit to you? Already millions and trillions are daily coming. Befooling men. They are fools and befooling men, that's all. This is their business.
Bahulāśva: The cheaters and the cheated.
Prabhupāda: Cheaters and the cheated. That's all. (break) ...meditating, what is that? Who was saying? Upendra? Where is Upendra?
Jayatīrtha: He hasn't come, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: So meditation means "I am moving the earth, I am moving the sun..."
Jayatīrtha: From that Kundalini book.
Brahmānanda: Oh, in that prayer he says, "I created God." That Yogi Bhajan. In his book he says that, that that is the meditation.
Prabhupāda: "I created God."
Paramahaṁsa: They won't join.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they asked in Los Angeles that "How is that? You do not work and you are living so comfortably?" They are envious. And the greatest economist, Professor Marshall, he has said that if man gets money, automatically he will not work. That is the basic prin... Therefore they are creating daily new invention.
Brahmānanda: For more working.
Prabhupāda: They are creating, yearly, motor car to allure them to work and purchase. That is the economic, whole economic basis.
Dharmādhyakṣa: There's a case in Africa when the British took over Africa, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that they had to charge the natives a tax, let's say, fifty dollars a year, and they would work... To make fifty dollars a year they would... (break) ...transcending dualities.
Prabhupāda: First-class men. Our definition of God is: na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate. "He has nothing to do." This is God. Na tasya karyaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate: "He has nothing to do." He is simply enjoying, dancing with the gopīs, that's all. Why He should go to work? Then what kind of God he is? Na tasya karyaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate.
Brahmānanda: What does it say? "Kundalini-yoga as taught by Yogi Bhajan is a highly developed science of awareness. Join with us early in the morning to revitalize the body, mind and spirit. Daily practice of kundalini-yoga under the guidance of a teacher helps you release the highest potential within the individual."
Devotee (1): One of his devotees has recently said that if he really wanted spiritual knowledge that they should come to you.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Devotee (1): One of Yogi Bhajan's devotees has said that Yogi Bhajan recently said if you really want spiritual knowledge to come to Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Devotee (2): That's intelligent.
Prabhupāda: That Mahesh Yogi also says like that. (chuckles) And that, what is called, Satchitananda? He also says that.
Prabhupāda: Sādhu śāstra guru vākya, tinete koriyā aikya. Guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya, ār nā koriho mane āśā **. Don't go anywhere else. Take this faithfully, the orders of guru. You are singing daily. Ār nā koriho mane āśā. This is faith, strong faith. And that is described in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, śraddhā-śabde—viśvāsa śudṛdha niścaya. Viśvāsa, firm faith. That is śraddhā. Faith means to believe strongly. That is faith.
Paramahaṁsa: So actually, in regards to my father or atheists or scientists in general...
Prabhupāda: They are faithless.
Prabhupāda: That you say, that the wood was there and people were taking. You do not know. You are so foolish. The woods were there already and people were there. They were taking advantage.
Jagannātha-suta: "Yeah, we've arranged it in such a way. Now it's easier for us to carry on our daily lives by adjusting things like this. Where it comes from. It's already there. We admit it's there. Where it comes from, it's not so important."
Prabhupāda: They used to create fire by mantra. Can you do that?
Brahmānanda: They need natural gas, and the natural gas is running out.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mr. Surface: Were some of the animals destined to survive through the destruction of other animals?
Prabhupāda: Yes. You are also destroying so many cows daily, although you are human being. Do you consider that "Why this cow should be slaughtered?" They are also living beings. So what about the animals? If man can slaughter so many animals daily, then if a tiger kills another one animal, what is the wrong there? That is the distinction between man and animal. Everyone has to eat somebody, and nature's law is one living being is eating another living being. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. So the snake is eating the frog, the frog is eating another small animal or some flies, and the snake is eaten by the mongoose, and the mongoose eaten by somebody else, by cat or by dog. So this is the law of nature. Therefore the human being is suggested that "You should take Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Eating is required, but you don't eat like the lower animals. You take Kṛṣṇa prasādam. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati: (BG 9.26) "Anyone who is offering Me with devotion and love leaves, vegetables, fruits, flowers, milk, that I take." So we take Kṛṣṇa prasādam, the remnants of foodstuff left by Kṛṣṇa. So that is our philosophy—we take Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Although there is also... Maybe not killing. Because if I take this flower from the tree, the tree is not killed.
Brahmānanda: Daily.
Prabhupāda: Daily.
Brahmānanda: Yes. That means about four thousand a month. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...of man, why? Why this movement?
Jagadīśa: Because the men are exploiting them.
Prabhupāda: That is the fact. They are dissatisfied with the treatment of man. The grievance is that they do not get husband, home, children, like loitering on the street. That is their aspiration: they want good home, good husband, good children. That they are not getting. Oh, it is a very big lake. (end)
Prabhupāda: In India still, in the villages they do not know, other than this wood fuel, anything else. They are misusing these trees by cutting, manufacturing paper, heaps of paper, in each house throwing daily. They do not read, but they are supplied heaps of paper and cutting these trees. Simply waste. Now wood and paper shortage all over the world. It takes so much time to grow, and one day they cut hundreds of trees like this and put into the paper mill. And heaps of paper is given every house, and he throws away. Then you bring garbage tank. In this way, waste.
Prabhupāda: Eight and a half pounds. In Vrindaban they get 1,000 pounds daily, New Vrindaban. What is that cottage?
Nityānanda: That what?
Devotees: Cottage there.
Nityānanda: That's a little house for the pump, water pump.
Prabhupāda: This fencing was done before?
Nityānanda: Before. This farm was once owned by a person who grew race horses for racing and gambling.
Prabhupāda: Racing is also gambling.
Prabhupāda: Fruits and flowers. No, only fruits. What you are doing, flowers?
Nityānanda: This is okra.
Prabhupāda: Oh, okra.
Nityānanda: And sweet potatoes. And we have eggplants, tomatoes, and peppers here.
Prabhupāda: They give daily some fruits?
Nityānanda: Yes. And then we grow potatoes too.
Prabhupāda: Oh, where? Which side?
Nityānanda: Well, the spring crop was already harvested. We have to plant the fall potatoes in a few weeks. We'll put them over there by the fence.
Prabhupāda: So it is nice farm. This is squash?
Nityānanda: That's a cantaloupe plant.
Prabhupāda: Oh, cantaloupe. You can grow cantaloupe here?
Nityānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And also watermelon?
Nityānanda: Yes.
Jagadīśa: There is one big watermelon on the vine up there. Perhaps it's ready to eat.
Prabhupāda: Nityānanda Prabhu used to decorate Himself with very costly ornaments. Your teeth does not look very clean. Why?
Harikeśa: They never get white. They are yellow all the time.
Prabhupāda: You washed daily?
Harikeśa: Every day.
Ambarīṣa: Did you try baking soda?
Harikeśa: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: The karmīs are also envious that we are very happy, that we are looking forward to a next life. They... Because they don't have that faith...
Prabhupāda: They have no hope.
Prabhupāda: If we go village to village. The village people are still pure, at least not so polluted as the town people, or especially the so-called educated. (break) ...hari-kīrtana koro... (Bengali) We held this hari-kīrtana in Delhi, Calcutta, Bombay. Oh, at least fifteen to thirty thousand people were daily... Even from the office with coats and pants, they are dancing. And they asked me, "Swamiji, continue it." (break)
Indian Man (2): I traveled all over India so many years, place to place, but I found the Gujarati is one of the best where the people have there some natural-born Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's fact. Everywhere—Gujaratis, Marwaris, Punjabis—more or less, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there.
Prabhupāda: Then why do you say all right? Money is not there; then how it is all right? Why do you say all right? Say not all right. Money is not there. So this is the position. Guesthouse, if it is organized, yesterday we calculated we can get five hundred, six hundred rupees daily. So why it should not be done? That is also incomplete. Everything is incomplete. Source of income incomplete, and whole thing is incomplete.
Dhanañjaya: Guṇārṇava Prabhu has estimated that it will cost at least another five thousand rupees...
Guṇārṇava: 75,000.
Prabhupāda: So I know that even if it is given, 75,000, you'll never finish it. That I know.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: What we are doing is...
Prabhupāda: Then you will say, "Our estimate was wrong. We were mistaken." This is going on. Several times, "This is estimate," money paid—"No, it was wrong. Pay more." This is going on. What is the estimate, what is the right estimate, nobody knows.
Prabhupāda: That is "to be." I am speaking what is done. That I am speaking. That is "to be." The "to be" is going on for the last so many years. Now you utilize... You are getting money, but still "to be." You are getting so much money, daily income, two hundred rupees, three hundred rupees. Still "to be." You do not know what will be the actual solution. So many big, big heads, and there is no solution. I do not know what to do. So many things unfinished.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So far, there wasn't any surplus. Now there's a surplus...
Prabhupāda: Where is the surplus?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Now it will start coming. Now it is... From Jhulan-yātrā our income has picked up.
Prabhupāda: But you have got money?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Now we will have a surplus.
Prabhupāda: You'll... Again "to be."
Brahmānanda: ...auspicious to see a calf drinking milk?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But there is no milk. (laughter) (break) Somebody should give me daily one fresh nim stem. Ask somebody. (break) Everything you have to do?
Dhanañjaya: I can learn from Brahmānanda Mahārāja. I can learn from Brahmānanda how to break it and make it ready.
Brahmānanda: No, no. Prabhupāda will arrange that. You just bring the branch.
Dhanañjaya: All right.
Prabhupāda: There are so many nim trees.
Prabhupāda: (to passerby:) Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Dhṛṣṭaketu: ...Kṛṣṇa's pastimes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa is unlimited; His pastimes are unlimited.
Indian man (1): Could I permitted to take a Bengali class one hour daily, the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust room for foreign and also Indian boys?
Prabhupāda: They are interested in learning Bengali?
Indian man (1): Yes, some of them are interested.
Prabhupāda: Yes?
Indian man (1): I think they should learn Bengali well to go through the books written in original-Vṛndāvana dāsa Ṭhākura's and the six Gosvāmīs. If they learn, then they will be able to understand the siddhānta very well.
Prabhupāda: We are presenting them in English.
Prabhupāda: Of Indian. Indology.
Brahmānanda: Yes. And his reviews are published extensively in various journals. So they are going to try to get this review published also. (break)
Prabhupāda: Charity box daily counted?
Dhanañjaya: Yes. Daily counted.
Prabhupāda: So how much it is?
Dhanañjaya: Pūrṇa-candra, how much was collected?
Pūrṇa-candra: 120 rupees.
Prabhupāda: So you write separately.
Prabhupāda: Devotees or... Daily they were purchasing 125. But you said, "No, it must be more," and the banana is rotting. Why do you purchase more?
Dhanañjaya: No, I allotted five rupees per person.
Prabhupāda: Therefore it must be spent.
Dhanañjaya: No, not it must be spent.
Prabhupāda: Then? Because five rupees allotted, then it must be spent. Never mind the fruits are rotten. What is this intelligence? To save money or to squander it, that is your policy.
Dr. Patel: And he daily bhakta. (?) He came for pūjā, for guru. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...devatā bhaktāḥ, te 'pi mām eva kaunteya yajanty avidhi-purvakam. They give examples, as the gopīs worshiped Kātyāyanī. But that is not avidhi. They went to Kātyāyanī for getting the favor of Kṛṣṇa. They prayed to mother Kātyāyanī, "Please be favorable to us so that Kṛṣṇa may be pleased upon us." Others go to beg from Kātyāyanī some material benefits, but the gopīs, they did not ask for any material benefit. And therefore that is vidhi.
Dr. Patel: Gopīs... Those who worship with Kṛṣṇa with sort of a sexual intention, but they became beyond the, I mean, guṇas, nirguṇa (Hindi), because Kṛṣṇa was nirguṇa. That is the thing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They became purified. That is simply so they are purified.
Dr. Patel: He always used to, daily, twice...
Prabhupāda: In the beginning this is the... You can have any yoga, anāsakti or āsakti, but the primary instruction is one has to understand first of all this, that one is not this body. And the national movement is based on this bodily concept of life. "I am Indian."
Dr. Patel: All the national... All the world's on that body.
Prabhupāda: So that is the difference. First of all one has to understand that he is neither Indian nor American nor English. But if you go on pushing on national movement, where is the chance of understanding that you are not this body? Just like our movement, we never say anything national. We simply state that "You are not this body. You are spirit soul."
Cyavana: That "We need our daily bread," like that.
Prabhupāda: Where is comfort? You are going to die. Where is your comfort? You are going to be diseased. You are going to be old man like me. Every moment there is some trouble. So where is the comfort, rascal? That means misleading. There is no comfort; still, they are promising comfort. This is misleading. Where is comfort? Eh?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There is no comfort.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Where is comfort? If you have to die—"Oh, I am dying comfortably"—what is this nonsense? "I am dying comfortably."
Brahmānanda: So these drugs, even though one may be feeling pain, he can take the drugs and he won't feel pain.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He will take injection. It is comfort. Daily he will take injection, and it is comfort. (laughter) Just see the fools and rascals. Mūḍha. (break) ...met so many medical men, doctors and quack. "Die comfortably." What is the use of this medical man, medicine? What is the use? If your comfort and death is comfortable, then why spend so much money? Die comfortably. Because you cannot check death, then why you are trying to check death? "Let me live some years more. Let me take this medicine." Why? Why this struggle? Die comfortably. Suffer disease comfortably.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He couldn't reply.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you have no conception of God, how can you deny or accept? Remain fool, that's all. That is the difficulty. When you ask them, whole world, "What is the conception of God?" they'll not be able to answer. Still, they will say there is no God. This is the foolishness going on all over the world. Actually they are not concerned with God. They accept the idea of God or so-called God for their material facilities. "O God, give us our daily bread. That's all. If You supply daily bread, then I accept You. Otherwise I reject You." This is their... When there is a war, Churchill will ask them to go, victory, "V": "Go and pray to God." God is order-supplier. And when they declare war, they do not consult God. When there is reverse condition they go to it. This is going on, that God means order-supplier. "Whatever I desire, if You are God then You supply me. Otherwise I reject You." What they will understand, intimate relationship with God, to serve Him as father, as mother, as friend? What they will understand, these rascals? It is not possible. They have no idea of God. Therefore they cannot understand. God is asking, sarva-dharmān parityajya. (BG 18.66) "What is this?" They cannot understand. Therefore they misinterpret.
Faill: Yes. One can be a student of Kṛṣṇa consciousness while going about a normal daily life.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Faill: Do you think transcendental meditation is beginning to help...
Prabhupāda: They do not know what is meditation. They are... Simply it is a farce. That is another cheating process by the so-called swamis and yogis. They do not know what is meditation. Do you know what is meditation? You are asking me the question, but do you know what is meditation?
Faill: Just a stilling of the mind, trying to sit in the center without swimming either way.
Prabhupāda: So what is that center?
Faill: Oh, I don't know.
Prabhupāda: Then? Why you are asking me? You do not know. So everyone does not know what is meditation, and they talk very much, "meditation." This is going on. These bluffers, they say "meditation," but what is the subject matter of meditation they do not know. Simply bogus propaganda.
Harikeśa: The government is doing that all the time. They take contracts from people.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is going on. Therefore price is increasing daily. Formerly British government, in the beginning, to prove their honesty, as soon as you go to the currency for changing, they will offer you, "You want coins or paper currency?" So if you think that paper currency will be convenient, you can take. Otherwise, if you want coins, they will pay you.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Gold coins.
Prabhupāda: Yes, gold, silver, whatever you want. That was the... Now this is stopped. You can not ask now gold coins and silver coins. Whatever government will give you, you have to accept. Where is honesty?
Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, in South Africa they have a coin called the Krugerrand. And one rand is worth one hundred cents, one rand of paper money. But one rand gold is worth about seventy-eight rand.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Prabhupāda: You have no position. You cannot take the Western culture properly, and you have lost your own culture. This is India's bad luck. They never taught Indians how to become actually Westernized. No. They were not giving them sufficient education. They were very much against higher education in the beginning. They wanted some clerks to conduct their activities, mercantile and government, some third-class, fourth-class men. Educated means ABCD, that's all. "They may know ABCD and take fifty, sixty rupees salary, and go home outside the town and come in daily passenger train, and work hard here and simply get your money so that you can maintain yourself." Nothing more. No education, no money, no industry. They were not taught properly. Here I see the factories, and the arrangement is so nice. But Indian factories, go—it is hell. Hell, simply hell. The Britishers exploited the Indians, and the capitalist class of India, they have learned how to exploit only.
Prabhupāda: That is real education. We want that you learn from Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, you learn from Vyāsadeva, you learn from Nārada. But why you are learning from Freud, from Darwin and such rascals? Education means you should learn from a person who is authorized, who is without mistake, without illusion, who does not cheat, just like we are learning from Kṛṣṇa. That is education. And if you learn from rascals and fools, then what is that education? Education means to learn from the learned person. But if you are learning from a rascal and fool, then what is your education? Education required, but we require what is actually education, which is not cheating. But we are being educated, being cheated. We are working for this body, which I am not. Is that education or it is cheating? If you say, "I am taking my interest," I'll say "I am taking water; I wash daily my shirt and coat." And that, is that knowledge? And what about you? Your food? "I don't care for that. I wash my coat and shirt daily." Is that education? You keep yourself starving and you keep your coat and shirt very cleanse. Is that education? This is going on. Therefore people are restless. He is hungry. What he will do, his cars and this shirt and coat and big building? Why they are committing suicide? Because he is not happy. There is no food for the spirit soul, what he is actually. Is that education? That is not education. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura is right when he says, jība ke karaye gādhā: "This material education means making people more and more asses." That's all. He is already ass because he's in this material world, and the so-called material education means keeping him in that condition more and more.
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa's grace, just like the government gives the prisoners also to eat. But they are condemned. And government's grace that government provides all necessities. If a prisoner is sick, he is given the hospital facility. But he is restricted free movement, that much. Otherwise government gives the same facilities within the prison house and without the... The standard may be little different. Eko yo bahūnāṁ (yo) vidadhāti kamān. He satis... Why this human being prisoner? Even He is giving food to the animals, to the birds, beasts, everyone. Noncooperation cannot be. Kṛṣṇa says, bijo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). Now, you have to grow trees, plants and vegetables for your eating. So that you cannot have without cooperation with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa gives all the seeds. Bijo 'ham. You cannot manufacture the seed. He gives the seed. You work little, sow it and get the result. But without cooperation with Kṛṣṇa, how can you get the seed? Then where is your food? No food. You must take... "God, give us our daily bread." Kṛṣṇa gives the seeds, and you sow it and get the fruit or grains. Then you can exist. Even if you are animal-eater, the animal must also come from Kṛṣṇa. You cannot manufacture the animal. That is also coming from Kṛṣṇa. Bijo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). The animal is produced by father and mother, but the seed is given in the semina by Kṛṣṇa. And then animal is produced. So how you can non-cooperate Kṛṣṇa? You have to cooperate. Otherwise... (man yelling in background) What is that? (laughter)
Prabhupāda: You stupid, you eat so much, but God is not stupid. He is conscious perfectly. He has nothing to eat. Still, He can grow. That is the difference between me and God. You don't require to eat even. There are many saintly persons they do not eat. How they are working? Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī was not eating. He was... Every alternate day he was, little butter, so much. That's all, not daily. Every alternate day. So actually we do not require to eat. Eating, sleeping, sex and defense—this is bodily necessities. But you are not this body. When you come to the spiritual platform there is no necessity of these four principles. So that is your mistake, that you are thinking, "God has got a body like me. He requires eating for nourishing it." That is your foolishness. Aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti. His body is so made that He can perform any limb's work by another limb. Just like we can see with the eyes. As soon as close the eyes, we cannot see. But Kṛṣṇa can see by His ear. As soon as you pray to Kṛṣṇa, immediately He sees you, "Oh, here is My devotee," by hearing the sound of your prayer.
Prabhupāda: Saṁsara-dāvā. You are singing daily. Saṁsara-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam **. One who can deliver from this entanglement of material, miserable condition of life, he is guru. That is the first definition of guru. Saṁsara-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam, prāptasya kalyāṇa—one who has obtained this qualification—vande guroḥ śrī caraṇāra..., he is guru **.
Yaśomatīnandana: 'Cause nowadays...
Prabhupāda: Nowadays... Nowadays let them talk all nonsense. But this is the definition of guru. "Nowadays the sun is rising on the western side." If somebody says like that, who is going to accept it? "Nowadays." There is no question of "nowadays" and "formerly." The truth is truth always. Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is Absolute Truth.
Prabhupāda: That "tomorrow" is daily put. Every day it is put "tomorrow." (break)
Devotee (1): ...of Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Dr. Patel: You have spread the steel on.
Devotee (1): The steel is now in?
Brahmānanda: The steel is there?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They put it in yesterday.
Devotee (1): They'll be casting most of the floor today.
Dr. Patel: (indistinct)
Devotee (1): Every fourteen days we'll cast a new floor. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...the week days are set up.
Prabhupāda: You have already. Otherwise how you are coming daily?
Dr. Patel: I don't know. I have got some...
Prabhupāda: We don't pay you any fee.
Dr. Patel: I feel some sort of attachment to you. That is why I come.
Prabhupāda: We don't pay you any fees, but why you come here?
Dr. Patel: That I don't know. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: What do you charge when you go outside?
Dr. Patel: I charge, by night, hundred rupees, and day, sixty, fifty, sixty rupees, not much. I don't charge much here. Bombay people charge double than me. You mean you want to charge me? (laughter)
Prabhupāda: No, no. Hare Kṛṣṇa. No, I mean to say, you are a professional man, you charge, but why do you come here free unless you have in mind?
Dr. Patel: I don't understand why I am attracted to you specially. I don't understand.
Prabhupāda: "If we sell" means you sell it. First of all take whatever you invested, money.
Mahāṁsa: Yes, that is what I was thinking. Sell what we invested and distribute the rest.
Prabhupāda: Give them prasādam daily. So they are coming for kīrtana?
Mahāṁsa: Few people are coming, but there are not so many devotees there to have a...
Prabhupāda: Organize.
Mahāṁsa: ...big program. Yes. And all the devotees who are there are very new, all new recruits.
Prabhupāda: Then how we are going to organize?
Mahāṁsa: Well, Haṁsadūta said as soon as the land is transferred he would send ten devotees for the farm. So then I think it will start.
Prabhupāda: So we have to import devotees. You cannot create devotees.
Mahāṁsa: Daily there are at least 2,000 to 2,2500 people coming to the program. There would be more if there was more space, but it's an enclosed hall, so we can't fit in more people. It's packed up.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a lot bigger than it was three months ago?
Mahāṁsa: Oh, yes. We have very big publicity. And we get letters from different parts of Karnataka inviting us for programs in their villages.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you do that. (break) Some big man came to see me for cooperating with others like Chinmayananda and Vinoda Bhave.
Mahāṁsa: A businessman?
Girirāja: Bajaj.
Prabhupāda: Bajaj, yes.
Prabhupāda: In India there are many Communists, but the price of foodstuff increasing daily. What they can do?
Haṁsadūta: Well, they say "If we were in power, this would not happen."
Prabhupāda: So why don't you become in power? You are strong. And what they have done, those who are already in the power? There is no food. One has to give line for two hours to get foodstuff. I have seen in Moscow.
Ambarīṣa: They don't have any food. They have to buy from the United States.
Kṛṣṇa-caitanya: Importing from India.
Prabhupāda: Yes, importing India, America.
Tejas: And we can make very good... In the newspaper, if we get, then we'll get... We can sell the tickets also.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you attend all these Kala Bhavan. Utilize like that way. You will have always engagement. This our chanting, dancing, prasāda distribution. And they will pay also. We'll sell books. Why don't you take advantage of this institution? It requires organisation, that's all. Why LIC grounds, so much money? Three thousand daily and 40,000 monthly and so on.
Tejas: So much endeavor also.
Prabhupāda: And so much endeavor.
Tejas: This Vijñāna Bhavan we can get, it's very nice.
Prabhupāda: So do it! Am I right or not?
Hari-śauri: Programs like that would work very successfully in the west also.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And what is three thousand, four thousand? You get two members and it is...
Tejas: No. People will contribute. No problem.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Do it immediately.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) is sufficient. If you get one man who follows you, he is more than thousands who is...
Prabhupāda: Yes, if you attend daily, I can speak daily.
Dr. Patel: I do come daily, don't I? (laughing)
Prabhupāda: Then I'll speak. Just like Śukadeva Goswāmi, he spoke Bhāgavatam, and there was only candidate Parīkṣit Mahārāja. But he said continuously for seven days.
Dr. Patel: Those ṛṣis came to hear.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because he knew that "Here is a gentleman, he'll understand."
Dr. Patel: But I am not that.... Parīkṣit.... I am a fool.
Prabhupāda: No, the standard is like that.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes. We are desiring to enjoy the sense enjoyment of this material world, then you remain impure. So long you shall desire sense enjoy.... Therefore bhakti means anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11), make zero all your desires, material desires. Desire cannot be zero. Purīfy your desires. Desire how to serve Kṛṣṇa. Then it is pure. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. You singing daily in the morning, āra nā koriho mane āśā. Do you know the meaning?
Devotee: "No other desires."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Āra nā.... guru mukha padma vakhya cittete koriya aikyā āra nā korioa mane āśā. That is purification. A guru says something, and you do something else, then you are desiring something, then you are not pure. Therefore daily you are saying, āra nā koriho mane āśā. Don't desire anything. Then you remain pure. As soon as you decide that "I shall serve only Kṛṣṇa," you become pure, immediately. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayīṣyāmi (BG 18.66). You are delivered from all sinful reactions, then how you are impure? You keep that position, pure position, then your life is successful. Āra nā koriho... And if you plan something (chuckles) "I am very expert in planning; I shall do this, I shall do that, not serve Kṛṣṇa," then you remain impure.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Daily or..., yes or no.
Prabhupāda: I am passing (laughing).
Dr. Patel: Yes, sir, but you have got the edema on the leg, and I mean, when...
Prabhupāda: It is cured. That one tablet, two tablets, has cured. So explain what is the experiment with truth.
Dr. Patel: Now we must make. I have booked a visit at 7:15.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Dr. Patel: At 7:15 I have booked a visit.
Prabhupāda: So...
Dr. Patel: Ha, tell me what is your...
Prabhupāda: No, what is this experiment with truth?
Dr. Patel: About what?
Prabhupāda: Anything. The world.
| Page Title: | Daily (Conv. 1967 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 22 of Aug, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=219, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 219 |