Expressions researched:
"cult"
|"cultic"
|"cults"
Prabhupāda: Oh. Just see. All very healthy, I see, because very energetic.
Śāradīyā: (break) Simply by Your Divine Grace, on Kṛṣṇa's appearance day in San Francisco my mother came to the temple and she wore a sari and a tilaka.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (chuckles) You are converting your mother to this cult.
Yamunā: A very nice mother she has.
Prabhupāda: Unless mother is good, how the children are good?
Journalist: Yeah. Western culture.
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.
Journalist: Do you have much of a following in India itself?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not my personal, but my other Godbrothers, this cult is very good.
Journalist: How many, how many...
Prabhupāda: Oh, millions. We have got, this Vaiṣṇava philosophy, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness, million and millions. Almost all. 80 percent. You ask any Indian and he'll talk so many things about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He may not be my disciple, but there are many saintly person like me. They are doing this business.
Journalist: Did you get formal training with a...
Prabhupāda: Yes, I was initiated by my Guru Mahārāja. His, here is that, my spiritual master's photo.
Journalist: Oh, I see.
Allen Ginsberg: But the question I'm posing still is this. You accept the possibility of a series of Kṛṣṇa consciousness centers in the United States.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Provided a man is not adversely inclined. Otherwise it is very simple.
Allen Ginsberg: But what I'm wondering is how far beyond exclusive centers, how far beyond that can it go in the United States? How far beyond a special study cult centers can a Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement or any religious movement grow? 'Cause the need is for a large single unifying religious movement in America.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So here is Kṛṣṇa. All-attractive. You now find out... You can say, "Why I shall accept Kṛṣṇa?" You can say like that. Your first question is the unifying agent. I say here is Kṛṣṇa. Now we can analyze, "Why you shall accept Kṛṣṇa?" Then I shall reply, "Why you shall not?" What do you want, expect from the Supreme or the unifying, what do you expect? Everything is there in Kṛṣṇa. Opulence-Kṛṣṇa. Beauty-Kṛṣṇa. Wisdom-Kṛṣṇa. Renunciation-Kṛṣṇa. Strength-Kṛṣṇa. Everything in Kṛṣṇa. Whatever you want you'll find in Kṛṣṇa. That is the unifying center. That I will convince you. He is the unifying center actually. And Bhagavad-gītā it is said, mama vartmānuvartante manuṣyāḥ partha sarvaśaḥ. "Everyone is trying to come to Me. Everyone is trying to come to Me." Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11). "But he's realizing Me in My different phases. But everyone is trying." So so far unifying religion is concerned there are three groups: impersonalists, personalists, and localized.
Prabhupāda: Twelfth Canto. And you will find that all the descriptions are coming to be true. Just like there is one statement, svīkaram eva udvahe: "Marriage will be performed simply by agreement." Now that is being done. And lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dharaṇam: "People will think that he has become very beautiful by keeping bunch of hairs." That is coming true. These are written there. All things are there in Bhāgavata history.
Allen Ginsberg: Well, in the Bhāgavata Purāṇa is there also provision for the Caitanya cult?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇam (SB 11.5.32). We have given that in that book, our Teachings of Lord Caitanya. That is the first quotation there.
Allen Ginsberg: So it's on this quotation from Bhāgavata Purāṇa that Caitanya built His system?
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is program, already presented, and He came to execute the program. Just like our meeting is already programmed. I come and execute it. That's all. That was previous. Clearly it is said, " 'In the Kali-yuga the Supreme Lord comes as one who always chants the holy name of Śrī Kṛṣṇa, who is Śrī Kṛṣṇa Himself, whose complexion is yellow.' Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Eleventh Canto, Fifth Chapter, 32nd verse."
Revatīnandan: The magazine section. Two page particle with nice pictures. You liked it very much.
Prabhupāda: Oh, oh, yes, yes. I remember. She is envious, that "Why two page advertisement, publicity has been..." That's all.
Haṁsadūta: There's another letter. It says, "Your leading article on the Kṛṣṇa cult makes interesting reading. A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, the Indian founder of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, ISKCON, and his American disciples repeatedly told K.R. Sundarajan, the author of the article in the Times Weekly, November 8th, 1970, during their brief stay in Bombay that theirs was not strictly a Hindu movement. They explained to him that Kṛṣṇa was above all religions, the universal teacher, the supreme man, the purification of the Absolute Truth. If it is so, then why can't they go to Pakistan and China for chanting of Kṛṣṇa's name and ask them to vacate aggression? The soil of this land where the great master was born..."
Prabhupāda: Now, now, we have to serve the political, politicians. Eh? Because they cannot do, so they are asking us.
Prabhupāda: So there was no money with me and in an awkward position... My philosophy is completely different. I was to ask them to cease from four kinds of sinful activities, and they are habituated to these things. Illicit sex, and drinking, wine and intoxication and gambling—these are their daily affairs. So I was thinking, "I have to stop this. Who will hear me?" But Kṛṣṇa... Everything became...
Guest (1): May I ask one thing. How you chose this America to be your first...?
Prabhupāda: My Guru Mahārāja ordered me that "You go and preach this cult amongst the English speaking public and specially in the western countries." So first of all I thought of London, where is London, but I had no money. So I got the opportunity for going U.S.A. free on the, on a trade ship by the Scindia Steam Navigation. They gave me their first-class cabinet, the proprietor's cabinet. I was well carried. But first of all I went free on a steamship. I had no money, what to speak of aeroplane. So... What was your question?
Guest (1): My question was that how you selected America to be your...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So I got the opportunity to go to America because their ship goes to New York. So I accepted, "All right, we can see, either go to London or New York." New York is better place than London.
Prabhupāda: And India, there are many Kṛṣṇa conscious persons, hundred thousands, millions. India, there is no question. There is not a single Hindu who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Prof. Kotovsky: Yes, I understand, but this, especially, specifically...
Prabhupāda: Vaiṣṇava. This is called Vaiṣṇava cult. The Vaiṣṇavas, as far as you know—you have been in India—there are many millions of Vaiṣṇavas.
Prof. Kotovsky: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Many millions of Vaiṣṇavas and... Just like this gentleman. He is a commander of the Air, India Air Lines. So he's not my disciple, but he's a Vaiṣṇava, Kṛṣṇa conscious. Similarly, in India millions and trillions there are, Kṛṣṇa conscious persons. And practically there is not a single... Even there are Mohammedan Kṛṣṇa conscious. In Allahabad University there is a Mohammedan professor. He's a great devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa. So this is natural. It is said in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is everywhere, in everyone's heart. It has to be awakened only by this process. That's all. It is there in your heart also. It is not that it is foreign to you. It is not that. Everyone's heart, there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. By this process we have to awaken that. Śravaṇādi śuddha citte karaye udaya. Udaya. You know this word udaya. Just like sun rises. It is not that sun all of a sudden comes from somewhere. It is there, but it rises in the morning. Similarly, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is everywhere, but some way or other, it is now covered. By this process it is awakened and aroused, by association.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is growing very slowly. Because we have got so many restrictions. People do not like any restriction.
Woman Interviewer: Yes. Where is the following the greatest? It is in America?
Prabhupāda: In America, in Europe, and Canada, in Japan, Australia. And India there is millions, there is millions of this cult. Apart from India, in other countries they are small quantity. But in India there are millions and millions.
Male Interviewer: Do you think your movement is the only way to come to know God?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Devotee: Do you think this movement is the only way to know God?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Male Interviewer: So how do you have that assurance?
Prabhupāda: From the authorities, from God, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66).
Sister Mary: We see that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So what you want more? Therefore let us cooperate. Don't think that it is against Christianism or it is sectarian. Let us cooperate fully. Jointly, let us preach all over the world, "Chant the holy name of God." Let us join together. That should be the real purpose of devotees of God. Here is... They are preaching love of God. Why should we be envious about them? It doesn't matter. We don't say that you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. If you have got name of God, you chant it. That's all. But we are preaching this cult, that chant the holy name of God. That's all. So what objection there may be from other sects? But they are envious. Because the younger generation are taking to it, so they are envious. Why they are envious? We wanted to purchase one church, and the priest in charge said that "I shall better burn this church. I shall not give them." Just see. Why? What we have done wrong? This is the very statement. "Better I shall burn this church, but I won't give them." Then? What we have done?
Sister Mary: Don't worry about that.
Prabhupāda: No, I don't worry. That is another thing. But there are so many vacant churches. They are for sale. But as soon as we go, they refuse. "No."
Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Everywhere. In Bombay, everywhere we go, "Hare Kṛṣṇa." In Montreal. They joke, they'll clap, but they'll chant. And that is wanted. I want to see that everyone is chanting. And if chanting has effect, then either he's chanting jokingly or seriously it will have the effect. Fire, if you touch either jokingly or seriously or cautiously, it will act. So our request is that you also preach this cult. Let us cooperate. The whole world is suffering for want of God consciousness. So it is the duty of all religious sects to teach this simple art of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa or any other name which you have got. That's all.
Revatīnandana: They have got this prayer, "Lord Jesus have mercy on me, a miserable sinner." And she was showing me they have a, almost like japa beads. Show him.
Sister Mary: You see, here.
Revatīnandana: They're almost like japa mālā.
Sister Mary: We do it in some, together, in the orthodox church. And we take turns doing two hundred.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Dr. Singh: It is a great knowledge, it is a great thunderbolt, it is a great gift. (Sanskrit)
Prabhupāda: Yes. We can answer any philosophy.
Śyāmasundara: We have a...
Prabhupāda: Nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ, kecit... There is a verse that there are many means and ways to rectify the world situation. But simply by accepting this bhakti cult, everything can be solved. The example is given, nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ. Just like there is fog, if there is sunlight, immediately dissipated. You cannot dissipate it in any other way. You may some scientific process that this way and that way...
Dr. Singh: Anti-pollution.
Prabhupāda: So this one stroke will clear everything. So my appeal to all intelligent class of men is come here, talk about this Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy and accept it and execute it. That is my appeal. All right, have some (indistinct). I think in 1925 I went to Kashmir.
Dr. Singh: Really. Before I was born, Swamiji.
Prabhupāda: What is your birthday?
Dr. Singh: '31, 1931.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: The defects are here that way which you will confirm, I have no doubt. But the question which I put to Girirāja was whether it would not have been better if you work from inside rather than make yourself a separate cult and organization. Separate organization, once you form, becomes like a person who is born. It gets his attachment, his ego, his everything. So the separate organization, like Mr. Banu, becomes an ego. He is fond of his own attachments, of his own interest, and so the organization must be looked after. The organization should succeed. The organization should succeed better than other organizations. There is (indistinct) among organizations. So all the egotistic weaknesses apply to organizations also. Therefore I was wondering whether it would not, if you had convinced that your mission was to spread the Gītā Ācārya's teachings as to how to act with detachment and with faith in the grace of God, where you go wrong, could not be having better done without making yourself separate.
Prabhupāda: No. The thing is, when there is detachment, there must be another attachment.
Guest: Yes. To God.
Madhudviṣa: No. (pause) He doesn't give the receipt number. He says... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...all the educated men. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). If the, who is called, elite society appreciate, then ordinary people will also appreciate. Before my Guru Maharaja, I mean, Bhaktisiddhānta's..., Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, Lord Caitanya's cult was considered by the higher class as it is the business of the low-class men. Even Vivekananda remarked that "It is the religion of sex," because they saw that the sahajiyās, they discussed this rāsa-līlā and have illicit connection with woman. So therefore they took it as the religion of sex. Vivekananda. But now...
Guest: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: These are the remark. And now we have to establish this, that this is the only way to reach God. You have to become scholar, philosopher, worker, practical behavior. And that is the fact. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66)? You have to prove it. And Bhāgavata says, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ: "Except surrendering to Kṛṣṇa, anything, that is simply cheating," cheating, kaitavaḥ. Cheating religion. This is challenged by God, "Cheating religion." We have to save people from the cheating type of religion, cheating type of religion, cheating type of dharma. It is so important movement. So this is very good thought of high-court judges. He has stated also, just before that, vicāra. You marked?
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So you, you can talk with Mr. Polsen and give him instruction.
Ian Polsen: Thank you, Your Grace. Before I go, Your Grace, I am employed in government service. Is it your wish that I resign?
Prabhupāda: No, no. We don't say like that. The thing is that you serve Kṛṣṇa. Our predecessor ācāryas, they are also government servants, but they resigned when they decided to preach this cult. If you have desire to preach this cult, then that is different. Otherwise, as a gentleman you can remain in your position, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and follow the rules and regulations.
Ian Polsen: Your Grace, how many times do you recommend that I chant on my beads? How many rounds?
Prabhupāda: We recommend minimum sixteen rounds.
Ian Polsen: Minimum sixteen rounds, every day.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise, you can chant twenty-four hours. Minimum sixteen rounds.
Ian Polsen: Is it true that if I follow the regulative principles, the four, that I will be able to chant without offense?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But ah... You are married, no?
Ian Polsen: No.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Śyāmasundara: One thing that has so much gone to, into our hearts is the fact that this philosophy and this way of life is eternal and nonsectarian. It applies to all people of all different races, different ages.
Prabhupāda: That is my experience, you see. I have preached this cult everywhere, and everywhere it has been received well.
Ambassador: Well that's a philosophy that mother Anne here believes in. All, all, all religions are...
Prabhupāda: First of all, we have to understand what do you mean by religion?
Mrs. Keating: What?
Prabhupāda: What do you mean by religion?
Mrs. Keating: Oh, religion. Well, I'm more of an eclectic. I believe in, in the best of all religions.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Mrs. Keating: I believe in the best of all religions.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Mrs. Keating: The highest.
Prabhupāda: But still it has to be expanded, has to be more explicitly ex..., advertised. So our point is this, that we are trying to spread this knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that we are spreading the knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā. So this is a world-wide organization and you know something about us, about this movement. So this part of the world, this is Southeast Asia?
Scholar: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Southeast Asia. Why not combine it, join together, and scientifically preach this cult of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. People will be very glad to accept it.
Scholar: What is the place of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam here, in this movement?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Scholar: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam?
Prabhupāda: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is... The Bhagavad-gītā is the preliminary study of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Just like before learning any literature, one has to read the first book, ABCD. The Bhagavad-gītā is the ABCD. It is just beginning of understanding of what is God. ABC. When one has passed the entrance examination, then he gets the opportunity of studying Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. In the Bhagavad-gītā the last instruction is sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, is explaining Himself, and at last He says that you surrender unto me. That is the most confidential part of knowledge. So if one has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, then He's admitted in the college of studying Bhāgavata.
Prabhupāda: And they're acting actually as brāhmaṇa. There are many Mohammedans also. You came from Mohammedan. So it is the process of presenting the perfect educational system. Then everyone will accept. Any intelligent man will accept. It is a science. So you have to push this scientific movement throughout the whole world. That is our program. It is not a so-called Hindu cult or a Indian cult. No. It is science to be accepted by everyone if he at all wants to, I mean to say, purify or make his life perfect. Otherwise, he's in darkness. He does not know what he's going to accept another body. He has to accept another body, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). It does not say that this kind of body, dehāntaram, another body. Not..., it is up to you to select what kind of body I am going to accept. I am going to become a cat or dog or a demigod or a big man or a... They do not know yet. This science is unknown to the whole world. We are trying to push on this scientific movement. This is our position. So if you want to cooperate with this scientific movement, then we are prepared. But if you have some other idea, that is different thing. But if we take it seriously as a scientific movement, then we are prepared to cooperate. And if (you) should do, simply formality will not help us.
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: First appearance of Back to Godhead (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Yes, 1944. I think you were at that time at my house. Yes. So, somehow or other, this intention for preaching the cult of Caitanya Mahāprabhu increased and the other side decreased. Viraktir anyatra syāt. But I was not disinclined, but Kṛṣṇa forced me that you must give up. (chuckles) And these thing is known better to Śrīdhara Mahārāja, how it decreased, decreased, decreased, then almost it become nil, and then I left home in 1950. Whatever was there, "All right, you do whatever you like." In 1954, four years I remained as vānaprastha, (indistinct) four years, from 1950 to 1959.
Prabhupāda: In India, what is going on as "Hindu dharma," it is a bogus thing. It has no meaning. Just like this Ramakrishna Mission, this Vivekananda, this Aurobindo, this Mahesh Yogi, so many others, all bogus. Anyone who is not going in terms of the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's cult or His teaching, he's a bogus. Anyone. Not only in India, all over the world. At the present moment, the real, transcendental spiritual life means to follow the cult of instructions of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Otherwise, everyone is bogus. They're simply wasting their time. They have no knowledge of spiritual life. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu's cult means Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). (Voices yelling in background) What is that? What does he say?
Devotee: He's talking nonsense.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa... While preaching our movement we should take this attitude. We cannot make compromise with anyone. Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Caitanya... Lord Caitanya's cult is to preach the instruction or talks about Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128).
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Kṛṣṇa-prema?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa-upadeśa. This is Caitanya's cult. Whomever you meet, you talk of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's, that is the cult of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. This is genuine spiritual movement. Or the human society's movement. Spiritual, cultural, religious philosophical, scientific, everything, complete. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa (pause) So you admit these facts? From any angle of vision, if one does not accept this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, he is aimless, bogus. Unless you are convinced, how you can preach? But this is the fact. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa... (pause) While preaching, you must have your locus standi, what is your position. And you must be able to defend your position.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Aiye. Jaya. (pause) You are from India? (Hindi—few sentences with guest) So we are therefore presenting Kṛṣṇa, the most delightful feature. So chanting and dancing before Kṛṣṇa, taking His prasādam, and practicing delightful nature, awakening the delightful consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So as this is taking practical shape, all these European, American boys, Canadian, African, they are becoming delightful, and with great delight, they are chanting, dancing and taking prasādam.
We cannot understand God by our present senses. So the senses are to be purified. And that purification begins: sevonmukha, by engaging the tongue, jihvādau, in the delightful activities of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So practically we are getting result. These boys, they were very morose, but now they are very delightful simply by following this method, engaging the tongue in the service of Kṛṣṇa. Tongue has got two business: tasting and chanting, vibrating. So they are vibrating harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21), and tasting Kṛṣṇa prasādam. And we are practically seeing that they are becoming delightful, living very happily, preaching all over the world. I started this movement alone in 1966, but these boys, inexperienced boys, having no spiritual training... They were trained up in their own ways, meat-eating, illicit sex, intoxication, but they gave up all these habits and delightfully they are going any part of the world and preaching this cult, and we are meeting with success. It is not that I have gone every place. It is not possible. I am old man. So I give them direction. Just like this boy. He's a gṛhastha. So husband and wife, they are organizing in Germany. We have got four, five branches in Germany. We have published this record and so many books and literatures. So this Saṅkīrtana Movement, even though conducted by inexperienced young men, but they are creating delight to the masses.
Professor: Now I understand exactly what the purpose of your movement is. I just wonder if you think the Western world is ready for this message?
Prabhupāda: Yes, why not ready? So many young men are coming.
Professor: So many, O.K., yes, but consideration of so many other people outside this temple...
Prabhupāda: No, any sane man will accept. This cult will not be accepted by the insane. One who is in quite order of the brain, he'll accept it. Only mūḍhas. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15).
Professor: And in India where is your āśrama or something like that?
Prabhupāda: My main āśrama is in Vṛndāvana.
Professor: Where?
Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana.
Professor: Oh, in Vṛndāvana, itself.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Māyāpur. Lord Caitanya. And we have got branch in Calcutta, Bombay, Hyderabad. Māyāpur and Vṛndāvana. Five, six... (break) I, I brought with me forty rupees and books. That's all.
Guru-gaurāṅga: "Translation: The Supreme occupation, dharma, for all humanity is that by which men can attain to loving devotional service unto the transcendent Lord. Such devotional service must be unmotivated and uninterrupted in order to completely satisfy the self."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is self-satisfaction. Yayātmā suprasīdati. Ahaituky apratihatā. So the bhakti cult is open for everyone. Ahaituky apratihatā.
Professor: Yeah, but people following you, could, could they stay in normal life, I mean have a business, etc...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why Not? There are so many...
Professor: You, for instance, do you do that?
Prabhupāda: He's a householder. Yes.
Professor: You are still working?
Yogeśvara: I design books and magazines.
Professor: Where? I mean, in connection with this society?
Yogeśvara: I do work for the society.
Professor: But is it possible to work outside?
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. We have many professors. They're being outside. But one thing is that after being interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they cannot remain outside.
Ambassador: No, Śaṅkarācārya came from...
Prabhupāda: Śaṅkarācārya.
Ambassador: From Kerala. Sir, I have got a question. I have not really been able to locate when exactly Rādhā entered Hindu mythology. Because the Bhāgavatam doesn't mention. They mention only rāsa-krīḍā as a... Before that, they were, before Gaurāṅga, Caitanya, did you, do you have rendered exactly the bhakti cult to take... The Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, I mean. They were generally the gopīs and...
Prabhupāda: Other ācāryas, they elevated people up to sākhya-rasa.
Ambassador: Sākhya-rasa.
Prabhupāda: It is Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He gave us mādhurya-rasa.
Ambassador: Mādhurya-rasa.
Prabhupāda: Therefore about Caitanya Mahāprabhu, it is said, anarpita-carīṁ cirāt. Anarpita-carīṁ cirāt karuṇayāvatīrṇaḥ kalau samarpayitum unnatojjvala-rasāṁ...
It is the gift of Śacīnandana, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that Kṛṣṇa can be served in mādhurya-rasa, in conjugal love. That is Śrī Caitanya. And amongst the gopīs, Rādhārāṇī was the best gopī, foremost. Anayārādhitaḥ. This, this is mentioned in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: Ah, ah?
Haṁsadūta: Catalog? I think we must have left that in London.
Prabhupāda: They are also distributing our books, Macmillan Company. People are... Now there will be a big meeting on the 12th, September, how to organize. Because this kind of literature was there, there was none before this. The bhakti cult, this was never presented to the western countries.
Ambassador: Yes, yes. Mostly it was Vivekananda's explanation.
Prabhupāda: Vivekananda did not know anything about bhakti.
Ambassador: No, I mean he just, literally, it's not bhakti at all. Yes, it is...
Prabhupāda: Neither Vivekananda nor any swami. That is the regrettable fact. They, actually... Even Dr. Radhakrishnan, he could not present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. You see? He's impersonalist, and he presented in a different way, and now Professor, Dr. Pirindher...?
Haṁsadūta: Philinder.
Śrutakīrti: Dillinger.
Prabhupāda: He said, he came to see me that "Now we have rejected Dr. Radhakrishnan."
Yaśomatīnandana: Mūkhaṁ karoti vācālaṁ paṅguṁ laṅghayate girim.
Prabhupāda: That one of my important Godbrothers says. He's sincere. All others, they are rascals. He says that "In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma. (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126) So we were thinking that this is imagination, that Caitanya Mahāprabhu's cult would be spread all over the world, everyone will chant. So you have done it." So he's appreciating in that way. "But we are simply thinking that it is not possible, it is simply imagination. But that you have made it possible." So that is his appreciation.
Hṛdayānanda: Because you are so faithful. So (indistinct), more firmer. (break)
Devotee (3): That's what he says.
Prabhupāda: He says?
Devotee (3): He says that, yes.
Prabhupāda: What they said?
Devotee (3): Ah... They believe him.
Prabhupāda: Ah?
Devotee: That was found by Lord Caitanya, Prabhupāda? The Brahma-saṁhitā?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Some of the manuscripts were found in South India and He brought it and He delivered, that "This is authoritative."
Dr. Patel: As a matter of fact, the Vaiṣṇavism started from South India.
Prabhupāda: Even Śaṅkara was also South India.
Dr. Patel: Cult of Vaiṣṇavism started from South India.
Prabhupāda: All the ācāryas, they came from South India.
Dr. Patel: They are more religious.
Prabhupāda: Vallabhācārya also South India.
Dr. Patel: Vallabhācārya is from North, no?
Prabhupāda: South India.
Prabhupāda: He's going in a different way.
Indian man (3): As a Vaiṣṇava. No, that is what I'm...
Prabhupāda: No, you do not understand, that is the defect...
Indian man (3): That is my misfortune, that is my misfortune because I am a little fixed-cult man. But then you explain me what I should behave.
Prabhupāda: Suppose you don't believe in meat-eating, can you stop?
Indian man (3): I don't want to stop. For your followers yes, you say don't eat meat.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man (3): Like that he has told us, "Don't eat meat."
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Indian man (3): You don't want to eat, do yajña.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: "When completely yourself are settled in Me, you have got to come to Me. You can't go anywhere else." Again I will read the last. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī.
Prabhupāda: Very simple thing. You always think of Kṛṣṇa, man-manā, you become His devotee, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto, mad-yājī, worship Kṛṣṇa, and namaskuru. Where is the cost? No expenditure. If you think of Kṛṣṇa, if you worship Kṛṣṇa, if you offer obeisances to Him... Therefore this Deity is there. For these purposes. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Simply by doing these four things, he is becoming liberated so much that he is going back to Godhead. That's all. (break) ...movement is very scientific movement, based on the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā. Most scientific. (break) We may be proud. Because this is scientific, therefore it is so quickly progressing. (break) ...take. This is mām cult. (break) ...so I was, that "I want to start this movement," I was talking. So he very much appreciated and he promised in writing that "As soon as I retire I shall join with you." He wrote me.
So where are these things? How you can expect good society, good management? If you want good society, good management, people happy in this life and next, then you have to adopt the principles given by Śrī Kṛṣṇa Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā. And we are preaching the cult of Bhagavad-gītā all over the world. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Thank you very much.
Prabhupāda: The thing is that we must eat something. And vegetables also have got life. The nature's way is that one living entity is eating another living entity. It may be animal or it may be vegetable. The question is the obedience to the order of God. So when Jesus Christ says that "Thou shalt not kill," it means bigger animals. Killing is applied, from dictionary, if I kill a man, if I kill an animal, then this word is used. So he meant like that. And that is very reasonable. Because I am eating another living entity, that does not I can eat another man. So therefore Kṛṣṇa has specifically mentioned, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). After all, we have to eat. And if you take that all killing is the same, even by ordinary law, if I kill one tree, and if I kill one man, does it mean it is of the same degree? Even taking killing of plant, so there are comparative. But it is also necessity that we must eat something. So therefore here, perfect thing in the Bhagavad-gītā, that He says that "You offer Me." "Offer Me" means "After My eating, you shall eat." Yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ. Even by killing vegetable, you are also as sinful as killing animal, but because we offer to Kṛṣṇa, therefore we are not sinful. Kṛṣṇa wants it. Just like Kṛṣṇa wanted Arjuna to fight and kill the other party. Therefore Arjuna is not infected with the sin. So here Kṛṣṇa is asking, "Give me this foodstuff," and Kṛṣṇa knows that I will eat the remnants of the foodstuff. So I am not responsible. We have no very much study of the Muslim, but instead of criticizing others, better we shall preach our own cult. But if there is occasion when somebody attacks, then we should be prepared. But our positive business should be to inform people what is the nature of God, as they are stated in Bhagavad-gītā and in Bhāgavatam.
Indian man: And your friends were there at the airport, Santa Cruz Airport, and you came by plane, some two years back I remember.
Prabhupāda: No, I am going every year. Two times, three times, I have to go all round the world.
Indian man: I respectfully request you your name, please.
Prabhupāda: Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. That's all. Call me Prabhupāda. I am preaching this cult, what you have come to see, this being expanded all over the world.
Indian man: Yes, yes. It's very good.
Prabhupāda: And we have got about hundred temples.
Indian man: At every America?
Prabhupāda: No, no, all over the world. In America I have got forty temples.
Indian man: Forty temples, I see.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In England we have got about five. And France, in German, we have got four.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Maharastrian, they are educated, advanced.
Priest: How do you find your disciples here in Europe?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Priest: I shouldn't ask personal question.
Prabhupāda: No, it is not personal. It is..., Caitanya Mahāprabhu's cult is so nice that it can attract anyone.
Priest: It does, it does.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not only here in Europe—in Africa, in Canada, in China, in Japan, everywhere. In, what is called, Philippines. We have got everywhere center—Australia.
Priest: In Bombay also you have got?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, Bombay just now we have got a very big place.
Priest: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And we are constructing a big hotel, strictly vegetarian prasādam. We are at Juhu quarter. (someone enters room) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. So you can give him a chair, this one. You can come forward here.
Prabhupāda: He sent his first book...
Ambassador: Yes.
Prabhupāda: ...in 1896. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was the first origin of this movement. But he simply thought of it. And he was expecting some others that willing to take up the work. Well, somebody says that I am the same man. And I was born in 1896. So he wanted to combine the whole civilized nations under this Caitanya Mahāprabhu's cult, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. I think I have given this hint in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya.
Nitai: Teachings of Lord Caitanya. Yes.
Ambassador: Well, I am very happy to have had this chance to be with you. How long will you be here?
Prabhupāda" :Two days.
Ambassador: That's all. And then?
Prabhupāda: I am going to India. We have to hold the Lord Caitanya's birthday anniversary. And open our Vṛndāvana temple. In Bombay we have got very nice land purchased, and the government will not give us sanction for the temple. The... I approached the Maharastra governor through another friend governor. The governor of Uttar Pradesh, he is my friend. So I explained to him, "This this is the position. You request the governor to give me sanction." So he has very ardently requested, explaining the whole thing about my position, my... He is member of this movement, and still, he is neglecting. He has said no. Yet... But no answer.
Prabhupāda: So who are fallen, the original Islam or the Sufist?
Yoga student: The Sufis are the original Islam.
Prabhupāda: Sufis? What? I do not follow. Sufis?
Nitāi: Sufis are the original...
Prabhupāda: Original cult?
Nitāi: Yes, that's what he said.
Prabhupāda: Before Muhammad?
Yoga student: No, springing from Muhammad.
Prabhupāda: Then how you can say it is original?
Yoga student: It is original. All the schools of laws, they've developed...
Prabhupāda: No, if is the original, why they named differently?
Yoga student: Because there are those who have fallen away from it, and they are the ones who use this name. The Sufis don't use the name about themselves. It's used by others who wish to...
Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of Sufism? Literary meaning?
Yoga student: Well, Sufism in a sense is what bhaktism is in the Hindu context.
Prabhupāda: Bhakti means to offer service to the Lord. Does it mean?
Yoga student: Absolutely.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest: The Sufis are the original Muslims.
Prabhupāda: Sufis or (indistinct).
Devotee: Sufis are the original ah...
Prabhupāda: They are original cult?
Devotee: Yes, the Sufis.
Prabhupāda: Before Mohammed?
Guest: No, springing from Mohammed.
Prabhupāda: Then how you can say it is original.
Guest: Yes, it is original. All the schools of law they develop...
Prabhupāda: If it is original, why it is named different?
Guest: Because there are those that have fallen away from it and they are the ones who use this name. The Sufis don't use this name for themselves, it's used by others who wish to condemn them.
Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of Sufism, literal meaning?
Guest: Well, Sufism in a sense is ah, what bhaktism is in the Hindu context.
Prabhupāda: Bhakti means to offer service to God. Does it mean?
Guest: Oh, absolutely!
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Bhagavān: Who is that?
Brahmānanda: Some hippie cults.
Pañcadraviḍa: Andy Warhol...
Rāmeśvara: It's not widespread.
Brahmānanda: Eh?
Rāmeśvara: It is not widespread.
Nalinī-kānta: We've seen in the newspaper that...
Rāmeśvara: Hippies.
Prabhupāda: That will increase, this idea. They'll put forward some scientific method... (devotees laugh) Yes. Now for the abortion the so-called scientists, they're explaining in a scientific way that "This is very good action." That I was talking with that Indian scientist. I gave him slaps: "Rascal, you are scientist." The government engages that "Write scientific book for killing your own child." And they'll accept: "Oh, it is scientific." That's all.
Jayādvaita: ...they know everything and they're perfect in everything. But sometimes, from our material viewpoint, we see some discrepancies. Just like we think that...
Prabhupāda: Because material viewpoint. The viewpoint is wrong; therefore you find discrepancies.
Jayādvaita: So we should think that we have the defect.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ācārya is explained, bhakti-saṁsanaḥ: "One who's preaching the cult of devotional service, he's ācārya." Then why should you find any discrepancy?
Jayādvaita: Because we see... For instance, sometimes the ācārya may seem to forget something or not to know something, so from our point of view, if someone has forgotten, that is...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Then...
Jayādvaita: ...an imperfection.
Prabhupāda: That is not the... Then you do not understand. Ācārya is not God, omniscient. He is servant of God. His business is to preach bhakti cult. That is ācārya.
Jayādvaita: And that is the perfection.
Prabhupāda: That is the perfection. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Jayādvaita: So we have a misunderstanding about what perfection is?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Perfection is here, how he is preaching bhakti cult. That's all.
Satsvarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there's also a question of reciprocation. You have so many disciples, thousands, and one devotee was asking me yesterday, "How does... I want to please Śrīla Prabhupāda. How does he know my progress and my service because I'm..., when I'm so far away from him and if I don't write him?"
Prabhupāda: So his representatives are there, the president, the GBC. They will see.
Mādhavānanda: The representatives.
Jayādvaita: The representative may be there, but what is my personal relationship?
Prabhupāda: Hm? To obey your spiritual master. Whatever he has said, you follow strictly. Follow the regulative principles. Chant sixteen rounds. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Journalist: And what were you in India before that? Did you have a religious background?
Prabhupāda: No, no, from the very childhood we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, our family, the Vaiṣṇava family. My father and my forefathers, they are all belonged to this cult, Kṛṣṇa cult. So naturally from our childhood we were trained up in this cult.
Journalist: Yes. Do you have children?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. I have got my wife, children, everything. But now I have no connection with them; I am a sannyāsī. Sannyāsī means to give up all material connection.
Journalist: Yes. Is your son in the cult?
Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone. But they are not so advanced. Just like one belongs to some cult, religion, but one may not be very expert to understand that religion. So they are Kṛṣṇa conscious, but not so expert.
Journalist: In India or the United States?
Prabhupāda: India, in Calcutta, my family is there in Calcutta.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Śrīmatam, śrīmatāṁ śucīnāṁ.
Paramahaṁsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So śrīmatāṁ, you can get here. Śrīmatam means rich, rich family. Here you get many families, Ford family... But śrīmatāṁ and śucīnāṁ. So if you are creating so many brāhmaṇas, so if this cult is permanent, then there will be many brāhmaṇa family here also. (break)
Śrutakīrti: ...someone had asked me yesterday. You say that the moon is self-luminous. So then... But during the course of the month there are times when only part of the moon is showing. The moon is not always full.
Prabhupāda: Maybe some planet between. Maybe due to sun. So moon is above the sun. Above the sun.
Śrutakīrti: Yes. (break)
Bali-mardana: Yeah, albatross, sea birds.
Siddha-svarūpa: They call them rain birds.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Siddha-svarūpa: Rain birds.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Prabhupāda: So your questions also is answered?
Anne Jackson: May I ask you a few questions? Could you please tell me a little bit about your life and how you knew that you were the spiritual master for the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement?
Prabhupāda: My life is simple. I was householder. I have still my wife, my children, my grandsons. So my Guru Mahārāja ordered me that "Go and preach this cult in the western countries." So I left everything on the order of my Guru Mahārāja, and I am trying to execute the order. That's all.
Woman: And is this picture here the man...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, he is my Guru Mahārāja.
Woman: And he is no longer living.
Prabhupāda: No.
Woman: He spoke to you spiritually?
Prabhupāda: So this is my (indistinct). That's all.
Reporter: Your Grace, can I start by asking you what do you think of South Africa?
Prabhupāda: That you can reply. Just preach this cult, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I was expected since a long time. So I could not come here due to my other engagements.
Reporter: Yes. What are your views of the country? What do you think of it?
Prabhupāda: Every country is all right. I don't find any fault. But only difficulty is that all over the world the civilization is being misdirected.
Reporter: Misguided.
Prabhupāda: Misdirected. They are not taking importance of the right thing. Just like we are in this body. Now, when the body is dead, we cry that "My father is gone away. My son is gone away." But if I reply that "Your father is lying on the bed. Why you're crying that your father has gone away?" what will be the reply? The father whom the son has seen since his birth, that body in the coat and pant, so that coat-pant and body is there on the bed, and why the son is crying, "My father has gone away"? What is the reply? What should be the reply?
Reporter: Well, I know what I would reply. I don't know what you would reply.
Prabhupāda: No, I want what is your reply.
Devotee (3): Your stick is Bhagavad-gīta As It Is.
Prabhupāda: They say? They say?
Indian man: Oh, yes. In Mauritius there are many cults. So they invited us, I went to two, three. So they asked me that "We are coming many temple. You people, why not you come?" I said, "Well, whenever you invite us, we are ready to come, but you accept our philosophy." So they said, "How we can accept your philosophy? Prabhupāda, he, wherever, he say that all the other are Māyāvādī. All other are rascal." (laughter) "Well, Kṛṣṇa has said that. Prabhupāda is not doing that. Kṛṣṇa said who don't accept Him, he is mūḍha; he is rascal. So Prabhupāda is giving as it is, whatever Kṛṣṇa has said." Oh, they were...
Prabhupāda: No... (break) Kṛṣṇa said, "The rascals do not surrender to Me." So as soon as we see somebody not Kṛṣṇa conscious, we call him rascal. So what is the wrong there?
Indian man: It is not wrong.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says, na mā duṣkṛtino mūḍhā prapadyante narādhamāḥ. So we find out rascals, if he is not Kṛṣṇa conscious. So what is our fault? Kṛṣṇa says this is the test to find out who is a rascal. And who is rascal? Who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is a rascal. So if you are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, you are a rascal. We have to see through the śāstra characteristic of a rascal, that he is not Kṛṣṇa conscious. That's all. We may be fool, but we take lesson from Bhagavad-gītā. That's all. And from the lesson we understand you are rascal number one." That's all.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they have a temporary one, but they're building a.... They've been building it for five years. They just have a layout of all...
Prabhupāda: What is their cult, this Tirupati committee?
Acyutānanda: Hinduism. Hinduism. Very.... No definition of that term now, Hinduism. Just like if we want to get on the radio, they'll say, "Well, there are so many minor sects. So if we give time for one, then everybody will want." But then, when we want some other aid, they say, "No, you're a majority group. We have to help the minority groups." So sometimes we are a minor sect and sometimes we are a majority.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) All fools, rascals, mūḍhas. (break) The Tirupati is a Vaiṣṇava temple, so they should encourage.... Vaisnavism means real religion. All other, bogus, cheating religions. That is.... Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo atra (SB 1.1.2). Kaitava means cheating. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). They do not know that. What is this land?
Indian man (1): The police superintendent's house.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Police superintendent. They are using the Deity's money, Prabhupāda, to maintain the universities. And in the universities they are teaching birth control and so many other things.
Prabhupāda: So why don't you take them into court?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Take them to court.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's only for disputes between countries, international court.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is country—"We are American. They are forcing us to become a Hindu." This is between country. You have to tackle with intelligence.
Mahāṁsa: It's become a world issue.
Acyutānanda: In most books about Hinduism they describe that Hinduism is a cult where they worship many gods and ultimately God is formless.
Prabhupāda: No.
Acyutānanda: So we are against that. Then we are not Hindus even philosophically according to that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are against all so-called cheating religion. The Hinduism is also a cheating religion. We are preaching Bhāgavata, and Bhāgavata beginning that "We have kicked out all cheating religion." What is cheating religion? That one has to understand. And Bhāgavata says, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇitam: (SB 6.3.19) "Religion means the order given by God." If you do not know who is God, "imperson," then where is your religion? We have to tackle things.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) This is nonsense.
Bhavānanda: "...our Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu was born at Śrī Māyāpur, destined to remove the dark clouds which had overshadowed true religious thinking by traveling alone on foot throughout the length and breadth of India. Preaching His gospel of love, He brought about a religious upheaval which put an end to all religious conflicts and suicidal vissiferous(?) tendencies. The benign influence of His love philosophy made the whole of India a spiritually united cultural domain. Soul-enrapturing kīrtana music was organized from one end of the country to another. A neo-humanism based on love regarded as the highest objective of human existence held sway. The difference between man and man was forgotten, and the fundamental unity of human nature and human destiny was stressed upon. But in the early nineteenth century, true religion was at a very low ebb due to lack of proper publicity of literature and also for want of great ācāryas to propagate the cults in their true aspect. It was a dark period for the Caitanya or Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavism when it fell from its highest transcendentalism to the lowest possible degradation because of so many abuses and evil practices which crept into it through plenty of pseudo-followers. Vaiṣṇavism was almost abandoned by the educated section of people. Its literature was hardly read. Kīrtana was looked upon not as a form of prayer but as a means of gratification by people of loose morals. Most of the Vaiṣṇava followers of the period lost their high standard of morality, their loving aestheticism, their intellectual superiority and devotional fervor, which were the main characteristics of the previous masters. The influx of Western ideas came in, and English educated people fell into the hands of Christians. Fortunately, at that time, we got a great Vaiṣṇava savant and scholar, Ṭhākura Kedāranātha Bhaktivinoda, who wrote widely and successfully created an interest among the educated public in Vaiṣṇava religion and literature. His discovery of Śrīdhāma Māyāpur, the birthplace of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, which was so long hidden from the public eye, gave a new impetus to its propagation. The age of Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavism set in. Thereafter, Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Ṭhākura took hold of Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavism with a vow to propagate it in its true perspective, even as it was practiced with unparalleled and unprecedented transcendentalism by Śrī Rūpa and Śrī Sanātana Gosvāmīs, followers of Śrī Caitanya. In proper time, he got a great personality who readily shouldered the..."
Prabhupāda: Just see now. "He got a great personality." He is that personality. He'll also prove that.
Bhavānanda: "All the desires for future work of Śrīla Prabhupāda Sarasvatī Ṭhākura used to come to the present ācāryadeva as an impulse first, which he translated into action at once. In spite of a hundred hindrances from so-called religionists with a vision of a future worldwide mission, Śrīla Prabhupāda established Śrī Caitanya Maṭha at Śrī Māyāpur, the birthplace of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, on the Phālguna Pūrṇimā day, the seventh March, 1918, which was a red-letter day in the history of theistic religious revival in this age. He started a countrywide movement to carry the message of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu to every door. In a hectic manner within a couple of years he preached Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavism throughout India and sent disciples to England, Germany, and other parts of Europe and Burma to preach the message of Śrī Caitanya and establish sixty-four branches under the name of Śrī Gauḍīya Maṭha throughout India and abroad, and a vast literature flowed through his versatile pen. The large number of publications in different languages and the vigorous missionary activities and door-to-door preaching by the sannyāsīs and brahmacārīs of the Maṭha, who held meetings in the remotest villages, duly spread Śrī Caitanya's teachings, which today are followed in every part of India. His songs are sung in chorus and a great interest is created among the intelligentsia of India. After having become the president of the institution..." In this last paragraph, all of these activities of Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, there is no mention of his name. His whole mission, there is actually no mention of his name, that he is the one who has done it. "After having become the president of the institution, Śrīla Bhaktivilāsa Tīrtha Gosvāmī Mahārāja has been traveling throughout India and Pakistan preaching the devotional cult of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and he has come in contact with many savants of present India who are all struck with reverent admiration for his deep knowledge of philosophy. Dr. Rādhākamal Mukherjee, vice chancellor of Lucknow University, remarks, 'There is no more distinguished and erudite interpreter of Śrī Caitanya's Vaiṣṇava thought than His Holiness Śrīla Bhaktivilāsa Tīrtha Gosvāmī Mahārāja.' "
Prabhupāda: And what is Rādhākamal Mukherjee?
Bhavānanda: " 'He has been a prolific writer and commentator and has traveled and discoursed widely in different parts of India.
Reporter (1): Swamiji, you write originally in English or these books are being translated from some other language into English...
Prabhupāda: No, translated, but I give my purport. That is.... They like very much. Present the purport in such a way they can understand it. The original verse is there, but they are explained by me.
Reporter (1): Give some critical comments and explanations.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That they like.
Reporter (2): Does that mean, Swamiji, that yours is a cultural and educational movement rather than a personal cult.
Hṛdayānanda: A cultural and educational movement rather than a personal cult.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is cultural movement, educational movement. It is not so-called religious movement. Religious movement is sentiment. Generally religion is taken as a kind of faith, but it is not a kind of faith. In.... I think, in South America that Indian man was asking that "It is the Hindu faith?"
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, in South Africa. He was asking, "Is this Hindu faith?" "This cult or that cult."
Prabhupāda: So just see. He was Hindu gentleman, belonging to the Arya-samaj. So three times he said, "Is it Hindu faith?" And what do you mean by Hindu faith? When Kṛṣṇa said, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), is it meant for the Hindus that a child becomes..., a baby becomes a child, a child becomes a boy, a boy becomes a young man, a young man becomes an old man, and the old man dies, changes this body? Is it meant for the Hindus? The Mohammedans do not become old men or young men?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The Christians don't become old men?
Prabhupāda: So such fools there are that Bhagavad-gītā is speaking, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13)—"It is meant for the Hindus." Just see. Such fools there are. And Kṛṣṇa said, annād bhavanti bhūtāni: (BG 3.14) "If you have got enough food grains, then all the living entities are satisfied." Is it meant for the Hindus? So this is going on. "This is Hindu scripture." What do you mean by Hindu scripture? So they are interpreting in their own way. So Kṛṣṇa is not for the Hindus or the Musselmans or Christians. He is God. He is everyone. He is for everyone. And it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-yonīṣu kaunteya mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ: (BG 14.4) "In all species of life, as many forms of life are there, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ, I am the seed-giving father of all of them." So where is the question of Hindus? This is going on.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Like guru, like celā.
Devotee (2): It's a very cheap thing. Very much they're moving on the group spirit.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Devotee (2): It's just a personality cult with no philosophy.
Devotee (1): Social club.
Guru-kṛpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, for the abhiṣeka, do we require cow urine and cow dung and tail of cow? Is it...
Prabhupāda: If available, not?
Devotee (1): Yes, we can get it.
Guru-kṛpa: It's available.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They're feeling threatened by our kīrtana parties.
Prabhupāda: Who?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He said that some of the town councils are trying to pass laws against our chanting in the streets.
Devotee (2): The Christians are behind it in Whangarei.
Prabhupāda: So, can they pass such law?
Devotee (2): I don't think so. We're having.... Some of our men are going to meet with the council the day after tomorrow at the meeting. They're open to our side. The reason is that the businessmen have complained, some of the businessmen have complained.
Rāmeśvara: His idea.... His question, Prabhupāda, is also, suppose someone wants to buy a farm or wants to do some new project. Do they ask your permission first?
Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole society is going on under my direction. Whatever they do, they take my permission and they put into (indistinct). Nothing is allowed without my permission.
Reporter: I wonder if you might have any opinions on some of the leaders of cults and groups in the United States, such as the Divine Light Mission, or the T.M. and so forth. I'm wondering if you have any opinions on Guru Maharaj-ji or Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.
Prabhupāda: There are different groups. I know that. But I do not go in detail to understand them. But our..., we have got a crucial test. That anyone who is..., does not know about Kṛṣṇa, he is put into four different types of categories as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. One category is that he is sinful. Another category is that he is rascal. Another category is that he's lowest of the mankind. Another category is that his so-called knowledge is taken away by illusory energy. So this is our test.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Next question, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Question nineteen. "Do you envisage or envision a different role for Hinduism in the Western countries where the influence of other great religions has been felt for centuries?
Prabhupāda: No. There is no different role. God is one. God cannot be duplicate. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). "There is no more superior authority than Me." That is God. Now people is to understand that Kṛṣṇa is God. There is no different role. The role is the same. Five thousand years Kṛṣṇa said that "I am the supreme authority. There is no more superior authority than Me." Still He is so. So we are simply attempting to introduce Kṛṣṇa. Nobody attempted. Although five thousand years past, nobody attempted to introduce the supreme authority Kṛṣṇa. We are just trying to introduce following the orders of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He, five hundred years appeared. He is Kṛṣṇa. He wanted that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be spread all over the world.
Kṛṣṇa is not for India. He is for everyone because He is God. He claims that "I am the seed-giving father for all living entities." Not only the human society, but also other living entities like the aquatics, the insects, the plants, and the animals, all living entities. He says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). Everything is there, but this cult of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or Bhagavad-gītā as it is, was not preached properly. Everyone interpreted Bhagavad-gītā in his own way to satisfy his own whims. We are just trying for the first time to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and it is being effective. So it is not a different role. It is the actual role. Nobody tried for it. Therefore Kṛṣṇa was unknown, but we are trying for this for the few years. But because it is reality, it is being accepted. It is being accepted. No attempt was made that. So it is not a new role. The role is already there: to preach. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's vision.
Prabhupāda: Is there any purport?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. "To live with devotees or to live in a temple means to associate with the śravaṇa-kīrtana process. Sometimes neophyte devotees think that they can continue the śravaṇa-kīrtana process without worshiping the Deity, but the execution of śravaṇa-kīrtana is meant for highly developed devotees like Haridāsa Ṭhākura, who engaged in the śravaṇa-kīrtana process without worshiping the Deity. However, one should not falsely imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura and abandon Deity worship just to try to engage in śravaṇa-kīrtana. This is not possible for neophyte devotees. The word guru-prasāda indicates that the spiritual master is very merciful in bestowing the boon of devotional service upon the disciple. That is the best possible gift the spiritual master has to offer. Those with a background of pious life are eligible to receive life's supreme benefit, and to bestow this benefit, the Supreme Personality of Godhead sends His representative to impart His mercy. Endowed with the mercy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the spiritual master distributes the mercy to those who are elevated and pious. Thus the spiritual master trains his disciples to render devotional service unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is called guru-kṛpā. It is kṛṣṇa-prasāda, Kṛṣṇa's mercy, that He sends a bona fide spiritual master to the deserving disciple. By the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, one meets the bona fide spiritual master, and by the mercy of the spiritual master, the disciple is fully trained in the devotional service of the Lord. Bhakti-latā-bīja means 'the seed of devotional service.' Everything has an original cause, or seed. For any idea, program, plan or device, there is first of all the contemplation of the plan, and that is called bīja, or the seed. The methods, rules and regulations by which one is perfectly trained in devotional service constitute the bhakti-latā-bīja, or seed of devotional service. This bhakti-latā-bīja is received from the spiritual master by the grace of Kṛṣṇa. Other seeds are called anyabhilāṣa-bīja, karma-bīja and jñāna-bīja. If one is not fortunate enough to receive the bhakti-latā-bīja from the spiritual master, he instead cultivates the seeds of karma-bīja, jñāna-bīja, or political and social or philanthropic bīja. However, bhakti-latā-bīja is different from these other bījas. Bhakti-latā-bīja can be received only through the mercy of the spiritual master. Therefore one has to satisfy the spiritual master to get bhakti-latā-bīja, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. Bhakti-latā-bīja is the origin of devotional service. Unless one satisfies the spiritual master, he gets the bīja, or root cause, of karma, jñāna and yoga without the benefit of devotional service. However, one who is faithful to his spiritual master gets the bhakti-latā-bīja. This bhakti-latā-bīja is received when one is initiated by the bona fide spiritual master. After receiving the spiritual master's mercy, one must repeat his instructions, and this is called śravaṇa-kīrtana-hearing and chanting. One who has not properly heard from the spiritual master or who does not follow the regulative principles is not fit for chanting, kīrtana. This is explained in Bhagavad-gītā: vyavasāyātmikā buddhir ekeha kuru-nandana (BG 2.41). One who has not listened carefully to the instructions of the spiritual master is unfit to chant or preach the cult of devotional service. One has to water the bhakti-latā-bīja after receiving instructions from the spiritual master." Mālī hañā kare sei bīja āropaṇa, śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye secana (CC Madhya 19.152).
Prabhupāda: Jaya.
Hari-śauri: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)
Prabhupāda: There were a funny man. They are called Gopal Bhan. So formerly kings, they used to keep some funny men because they are always full of anxiety, and one funny man would give them joke.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) ...punaḥ punaś carvita carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), again spend millions of dollars. And our rascal Indian leaders, they are also. What is that here, she has remarked, "Hare Kṛṣṇa cult."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh yeah, that Indian cultural organization.
Rūpānuga: Who said that?
Prabhupāda: One...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They have one cultural organization, they want to export yogis and teachers who they approve of, the Indian government approves of as being bona fide. Because the American government, so many people are complaining, about misrepresentation by these Indian swamis and so-called yogis that are coming over. So they put Guru...., the Divine Light Society...
Hari-śauri: They said that once this is established there won't be no room for the Divine Lightists, the Hare Kṛṣṇa cultists and like this.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: TM. (indistinct)
Rūpānuga: Really.
Devotees: Yeah. (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: And they're spending...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: A hundred and sixty nine lakhs.
Prabhupāda: A hundred and sixty nine lakhs per year, inviting foreign countries to lecture.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Only a handful they had, something like sixty people. They spent two...
Prabhupāda: And what culture they'll speak? (Hindi) They can speak, "Milk is dangerous and meat is very nutritious. Kill all the cows. Oh yes, it's very scientific." This is the cult(?). "Milk is dangerous." Is it not?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they're saying that, the doctors nowadays.
Rūpānuga: It's true.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I remember one day you retorted that. You said that "Milk is nothing but the blood of the cow transformed. And (sarcastically:) the milk is bad but the blood is good?
Rūpānuga: They scare people by saying that milk helps to create heart disease, and artery disease, like that. They frighten people with that propaganda.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Meat creates cancer of the intestines.
Rūpānuga: Actually, there have been some articles in papers lately about meat and cancer, linking meat and cancer. Prominent, prominently displayed articles.
Prabhupāda: Then why do you give milk to the children? Give him blood.
Rūpānuga: They say past a certain age...
Prabhupāda: No, no, this propaganda-milk is bad—so why from the very beginning you give milk to the children?
Rūpānuga: Actually, in America they do not feed the children by the breast. They use cow's milk practically from birth.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I say...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There was an article in the newspaper about that today. Very interesting. It said in the newspaper that if women stop breast feeding their children they will have to increase the population of dairy cows tremendously. A very small percentage do now.
Devotee: Prabhupāda, you were a chemist before, but I think you are the greatest alchemist to have taken so many leaden souls and turned them into golden Vaiṣṇavas. Perhaps you can even transform them (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa is giving us facilities to preach this cult. Everywhere we have got very, very palatial buildings to accommodate devotees. Now we have got here a very nice place, accommodate devotees. Everywhere we have got. In Bombay we are getting the best temple in India. We are spending crores of rupees, Kṛṣṇa is giving us money. So I started the business with forty rupees. That was also not American currency. They allowed me to bring forty rupees. So when I was getting off the ship I asked the captain, "I have brought these forty rupees, which will not be accepted here, so you take." At that time three books I had, the first, second and third volume. So I asked him that "You purchase. Give me some dollars." So he asked, "What is the price?" "Sixteen dollars." So he gave me twenty dollars, and I delivered them. With that twenty dollars I got out down on the land of America, and that forty rupees. So I did not know where to go, where to stay. So Kṛṣṇa is giving us all facilities, and these American boys are helping. I think those who are Indians, they should join this movement sincerely and preach more vigorously. People will be benefited—this is real substance. Otherwise people are being misguided, so many things going on. Transcendental meditation, the, what is called? No, another. So many. Actually, speaking for the last at least two hundred years, many swamis, people came here, but not a single person was converted to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is history. What do you think, Sukla? You have studied. So many swamis, yogis, scholars came, and they spoke on Bhagavad-gītā and other, but not a single person became a devotee of Kṛṣṇa.
rabhupāda: In Muslim country, Christians, or the Americans preaching Hindu religion, it has been taken very seriously in Iran. Three different elements: preaching center is Muhammadan, and the preacher is American, and the cult Hindu. (laughs) So the princess of Iran and her husband, they are, up to date, they are very much appreciating. The daughter of Shah.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: What is the verse, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: No, you read the contents.
Rūpānuga: Or the index maybe.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. Chapter Three. "In this chapter the author has fully discussed the reason for the descent of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, after displaying His pastimes as Lord Kṛṣṇa, thought it wise to make His advent in the form of a devotee to explain personally the transcendental mellow reciprocations of service and love between Himself and His servants, friends, parents and fiancees. According to the Vedic literature, the foremost occupational duty for humanity in this age of Kali is nāma-saṅkīrtana, or congregational chanting of the holy name of the Lord. The incarnation for this age especially preaches this process, but only Kṛṣṇa Himself can explain the confidential loving service performed in the four principal varieties of loving affairs between the Supreme Lord and His devotees. Lord Kṛṣṇa therefore personally appeared, with His plenary portions, as Lord Caitanya. As stated in this chapter, only for that purpose did Lord Kṛṣṇa appear personally in Navadvīpa in the form of Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja has herein presented much authentic evidence from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and other scriptures to substantiate the identity of..."
Prabhupāda: You are reading Caitanya Mahāprabhu. About Nityānanda, see the contents? No, in the beginning. Chapter where is contents. Nityānanda-tattva.
Hari-śauri: We did that in Melbourne. But then gradually we let them see. Then they took us out for a trial run and everything. (break)
Prabhupāda: Note down in the account book. (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...presents us as a bona fide Vaiṣṇava, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Vaiṣṇava cult. Says that the ISKCON center, the Māyāpur..., "ISKCON plans to build in Māyāpur a world center for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It will comprise an enormous..."
Prabhupāda: This news has been very much advertised.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When will we begin?
Prabhupāda: As soon as we get the land.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The land is coming along?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The land is coming along?
Prabhupāda: Yes, government...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are going ahead with it.
Prabhupāda: Two officials are in great favor. One Mr. Choudhuri and Mr. Ganguli.
Prabhupāda: Therefore we shall keep it dusty. If our heart is full of dust, cleanse it. That is intelligence. What is this, "My heart is dirty, let it be kept as dirty"? No, if it is dirty, cleanse it. It is the duty of every Indian to understand Kṛṣṇa and preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to others. That is real Indian business. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, that every one of you become Kṛṣṇa conscious and preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness to others who are unaware of Kṛṣṇa. That is the injunction; that is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. He said bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41). Anyone who has taken birth in India as a human being—not as dogs manuṣya, manuṣya means human—his duty is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious and preach to the other people for welfare activities. Bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41). We should mark this point, manuṣya-janma. He's not requesting the cats and dogs. So in other words, that those who are not taking, Indians... Bhagavad-gītā is known to everyone, every Indian knows. But if he does not preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he is not to be counted as human being. Because He says manuṣya-janma haila yāra. If we claim to be human being, born in India, it is our duty to understand the value of life from Bhagavad-gītā and preach this cult to others to do real welfare activities. This is the duty of every Indian. Why Indians are lacking in their duty? They do not understand Kṛṣṇa and they do not understand how to do good to others. Now whatever is done is done. It is time, now that Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is here, the temple is here, you come, you understand the whole philosophy and distribute. That is your duty. In New York City we can open many temples, provided you come.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Some of the modern-day cults in America, different philosophies, they say that all of the suffering is experienced within the mind. So they try by meditation to ignore the suffering.
Prabhupāda: Or... That's all right. When there is fire you meditate, why do you call fire brigade? If you are so great meditator, then you go on meditating, why you call for fire brigade? Nonsense, all rascals. (laughter) Simply rascals. Mūḍha. They have been described as mūḍha. Rascals, that's all.
Devotee: Sometimes they say it's just a dream and they say if you are bothering me, and you are just my dream; I don't have to worry about it, I'll have another dream and you'll go away.
Prabhupāda: No but dream is... It may be, but when there is fire, you call it dream, but why do you call fire brigade? When you are diseased why you go to physician? Dream it. (laughter) The major problem is birth, death, and old age, and disease. You do not want that. You must seek the measures. That is human life. Whether birth, death, old age, disease can be stopped? If there is any such life that there is no more birth, death, that is human life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is the Vedānta philosophy: "Now the human life is meant for enquiring about these things." If you don't enquire, then you remain animal. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to save the human society from this animal life. To bring him to the real human life. Animal life means there is suffering—go on suffering. Human life means there is suffering—how to get, how to counteract. That is human life. Suffering—so long you have got this body, there must be suffering.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This verse that we were studying yesterday:
krame saba tattva śuna, kahiye tomāte
"You are fit to propagate the cult of devotional service. Therefore gradually hear all the truths about it from me. I shall tell you about them." (Mad. 20.107)
Prabhupāda: This is the... (break) ...to see the newest sanitary condition.
Devotee: Oh yes.
Prabhupāda: Such an important country. So nasty everywhere, park, street, what is there? This is not good sign. In other cities, you see so neat and clean. Washington, even that parkway, so neat and clean. Why this city is neglected? Los Angeles also, neat and clean. Which other cities we went?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Detroit.
Prabhupāda: Detroit is... Detroit is also.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That park was a little dirty also.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "While Hare Kṛṣṇa propounds doctrines of world renunciation common to other varieties of the Hindu faith, the sect, officially known as the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, was founded in 1966 by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, whose fame as a guru came only after he arrived in the United States in the same year. For most of the Indians watching the parade, however, Hare Kṛṣṇa was close enough to their brand of Hinduism to make them feel at home."
Gurudāsa: That's good. It means that we're not a light cult. It means we have a great tradition.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it's actually good.
Gurudāsa: They're recognizing that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: " 'It's surprising that you find this right in New York City. It's our way of life,' said Nagan Patel, a civil engineer from Jersey City, who immigrated from Bombay. 'We love New York City and America. It's the most beautiful place in the world. No other country will give such freedom for our own ceremony.' "
Prabhupāda: That's a fact, that I say always.
Prabhupāda: Any scriptures, any.... Just like the same example. The literature issued along with the manufacturer of this microphone is bona fide. So if anyone follows that bona fide literature, he can deal with it. Otherwise, a bogus.
Mike Robinson: I see. Well, if we could take something which I believe you feel very strongly about, and that's some of the other Eastern cults and gurus.
Prabhupāda: That I cannot study.
Mike Robinson: Yes, can you explain to me why it is that...?
Prabhupāda: So far I know, they do not know anything. They simply come and bluff and cheat, that's all.
Mike Robinson: I see. What are the big differences that you seem to be...
Prabhupāda: The difference is they are not following the original literature. They are manufacturing their own literature. That is the difference. Not authorized.
li: Because everything is God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam eva vijñātaṁ bhavanti. This is Vedic instruction. If you simply understand God, then you understand everything. Therefore God says janma karma ca me divyam evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). "If anyone understands Me factually, then, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), then after giving up this body, he's not going to accept any more material body. He comes to Me." So simply try to understand God. And that is possible simply by chanting the holy name of God. Very easy. It doesn't matter. Either you are Iranian or Indian or, chant the name of, holy name of God. I think there should (not) be any objection for this movement. Eh? What do you think? That's all. We are simply pleading, "My dear sir, please chant the holy name of God." Who will have any objection? Nobody will have any. Do it. There is no confusion. If you are confused, chant the holy name of God, you'll be out of confusion. Tell them like that. Everyone should join with us and preach this cult. This is not a cult, this is a science, that you chant the holy name of God, that's all. You have seen that house? Dayānanda, no, was with you? Dayānanda?
Prabhupāda: Then there is proof: śāstra is there, sādhu is there, ācārya is there, other authorities are there. Just like Arjuna said, that, quoted Vyāsa, Nārada, Asita, Devala, "All of them have accepted You the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and You are explaining Yourself. Therefore I have no doubt." Vyāsadeva is authority, Nārada is authority, and there are many others. Recently, all the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Caitanya Mahāprabhu... We are following the Caitanya cult, but He's stated yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa. He's accepting. Why does He say "Kṛṣṇa"? Why does He not say others? Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa yāre dekha (CC Madhya 7.128), tāre kaha And Kṛṣṇa also, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7), "There is no more superior person." And Arjuna accepted, "Whatever You are saying, it is all reasonable." Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye (BG 10.14). "Whatever you have said, I accept in toto." There is no cut short, "I don't like this, I don't accept this." No, everything, sarvam etad.
Interviewer (3): Some sort of religious epithet.
Prabhupāda: It is not exactly religious. You have taken by it because we misunderstand the meaning of religion. Religion generally understood as a kind of cult and faith. But in the Vedic literature, religion means the characteristic. Just like sugar is sweet, that is its religion. If sugar becomes pungent, that is not sugar's characteristic. Similarly, a human being must be God conscious. So that God consciousness is religion. Because in the human form of life one can understand what is God, and if he does not become, he remains an animal. Animal cannot understand. So therefore his business is how to athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is not our manufactured word, this is the Vedānta words. Atha, now we have got this human form body, based on that transmigration of the soul after millions and millions of years, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19), you have got this human form of life, now it is your business to inquire about the Absolute Truth. This is the business of human life. And āhāra-nidra-bhaya-maithuna, how to eat, how to sleep, how to enjoy sex life and how to defend, that is animal business. If you remain busy with these four principles of bodily necessities of life, āhāra-nidra-bhaya-maithuna, then you remain on he animal platform. Beyond that, when you inquire about God, that is human life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. So we are trying to raise him from this animal life to human life. This is our business.
Interviewer (4): The same claim is made by Durgā also.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Interviewer (4): (indistinct)-śakti cult, they also give you the same...
Prabhupāda: Yes, Durgā, we say
Durgā is all-powerful within this material world, but she is acting under the direction of Govinda. She is not acting independently. In the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). Under My supervision. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is the supreme authority. (break) ...but they go to the supreme person who can give spiritual knowledge. Durgā is not neglected.
Jayapatākā: Gaura Govinda, he has a few huts. "Major complex."
Pradyumna: "Besides, they are planning to set up a Sanskrit university in Purī, the home of famed temples and one of the few spots in India blessed by Ādi Śaṅkara. Two devotees, Gurudāsa Swami and Abhirāma dāsa visited Bhuvaneśvara in April last to explore means to set up the university." Then in big heading, "Patnayak's interest in Kṛṣṇa cult."
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is going to get us...
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Pradyumna: "They reportedly met also our deputy defense minister, J. B. Patnayak, who hails from Orissa. It is understood that Patnayak has asked the district magistrate of Purī to find land for ISKCON's Sanskrit university there. ISKCON is pursuing not only Kṛṣṇa, it has started taking interest in politics also. It has founded a political party in the United States called "In God We Trust" Party. It has already contested civic elections in Los Angeles and intends to put up candidates for the U.S. Congress." We didn't do anything in Los Angeles. Only in Georgia. All wrong, complete...
Prabhupāda: What is wrong there? In God We Trust, this party. Yes.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. So bring him into court. But what will be your charges?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, slander, it was trying to slander our character, our whole movement.
Gargamuni: Defamation of our religious cult. Because we're recognized by scholars as being bona fide. It says here, "Ungodly face of Kṛṣṇa cult." How is that ungodly?
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the charge. They are trying to minimize our...
Gargamuni: We are godly. There are so many quotes from big scholars.
Hari-śauri: Just at the end this article gets worse.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that very heading is a defamation.
Gargamuni: "We challenge you that you are ungodly. But we are godly because we follow the four principles." This man drinks, it shows a photo of him drinking.
Prabhupāda: "Ungodly face of Kṛṣṇa cult." This is the charge. That very heading is a defamation.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, we must bring this man charges. "Ungodly face."
Hari-śauri: Just like it says in the Bhagavad-gītā, they think religion is irreligion...
Prabhupāda: "Ungodly face," what is that?
Pradyumna: "The ungodly face of Kṛṣṇa cult."
Prabhupāda: What is that ungodly face?
Hari-śauri: They're trying to make out we're political.
Pradyumna: That we... He said he has "Now unmasked the ungodly face of Kṛṣṇa cult." That we're putting on a false face of being devotees of Kṛṣṇa, but actually we have an ungodly purpose. That we want to...
Prabhupāda: What ungodly we have done?
Pradyumna: That he does not come out and say, but he implies that we are foreign, that we want to exploit India somehow.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, they are feeling the weight. Now they are feeling the weight. That is the progress. Otherwise, if our movement would have been a trifle thing, the government and newspapers they would not have taken care. Now they are feeling that this movement is going to be more and more important, all over the world.
Vāsughoṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? This gentleman is the head of the Marwari community, Mr. Dinami (?). They only speak Hindi. They would like to speak to you but they don't understand English.
Prabhupāda: No, I can, (Hindi) (break) (Unless) one is enthused, he cannot preach. It is not possible. I went there when I was seventy years old. I was sitting in Vṛndāvana. So I thought that my Guru Mahārāja wanted me, Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted me... So in this old age let me try. (indistinct). But by Kṛṣṇa's grace it is becoming successful. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ tam (BG 10.10). So there is good field for propagating this cult. See our young men they are... (Hindi) Juhu mai beef(?) shop (Hindi) And I inquired some of the Hindu boys that "Do you eat meat?" So they began to smile, then they accepted. (Hindi) (break) ...platform is finished. (Hindi) Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). Yathecchasi, yathā icchasi tathā kuru.
Krishna Modi: Also, this is a part of nowadays. Advertise and all these things, to know each and every thing. This is correct that why you are worrying about all these things. People should know it about you. Why not hear it? This is perfectly right, I agree with you. But in the interest of other people who have faith in their religion...
Prabhupāda: No, our mission is that this Kṛṣṇa cult should be preached all over the world. That is the... Bhagavad-gītā, (indistinct) Find out this verse, ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati (Bg 18.68). Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69).
Hari-śauri: Is that the one, "There's no one more dear to me than..."
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Even in black Africa Prabhupāda has temples.
Krishna Modi: Yes, that is good.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I said even in black Africa you have temples and devotees.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: What are the points?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I read the whole letter you? It's a four page letter.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "Dear Shri Modiji. Hare Kṛṣṇa. In Blitz issue of August 21, 1976, an article under the heading of "Blitz Tears the Mask of Ungodly Face of Kṛṣṇa Cult" appeared. This article appeared on page 3 of the issue and was written by A. Ragwan of Blitz Delhi Bureau. We beg to state that this was a mischievous article in which the newspaper accused us incorrectly. It is our firm opinion that the purpose of this article was simply to defame ISKCON because it is engaged in spreading God consciousness based on the Vedic scriptures. For your information, ISKCON is a registered society with the government of India. This society..."
Prabhupāda: For your information we beg to submit.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No. For your information... Before that I have said. "For your information ISKCON is a registered society with the government of India."
Prabhupāda: No, no, "for your infor..." It is not completed. "For your information..." What is that?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, this is a sentence.
Prabhupāda: Okay.
Haṁsadūta: Mm. (pause)
Prabhupāda: Our temple, where many people come. Our Māyāpur temple, Hyderabad temple, it is not only in Europe or America, in India in our temples, south India.
Haṁsadūta: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: It is genuine religious cult. You have to send all these people. Now note down and do all these things and send it. I can suggest. (noise in background)
Haṁsadūta: It is disturbing.
Prabhupāda: There is some commotion all over there. (break) ...our child is lost altogether...
Haṁsadūta: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But there (indistinct) who go (indistinct) they're not lost.
Haṁsadūta: No, no.
Prabhupāda: They come back again. But here (chuckles) Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement, one who comes, he'll be lost. (laughs)
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we can do that.
Prabhupāda: Yes, many thousands and thousands of important Indians, very rich men there are. In London there are very rich Indians. They can form immediately a solid association. They should present that this Kṛṣṇa is our God. In every Indian home we observe Kṛṣṇa Janmāṣṭamī. Even though one does not follow Kṛṣṇa cult, still if he is Hindu he follows the Janmāṣṭamī. Inevitably, everywhere. So this Kṛṣṇa cult is genuine, Vedic, based on Bhagavad-gītā which was spoken long, long years ago before any religion, any religious literature in the world. The Buddha literature or the Christian literature and Jewish literature, they cannot be counted more than two thousand years. A little more than that. But this Kṛṣṇa cult is coming, it is coming from, I have already explained in the introduction, it is coming from four hundred millions of years ago. But even from historically, it is five thousand years. Beyond all religious literature in the world. We have to present this case in the court. And let it be discussed thorough (indistinct), and see our books, compare any religious books with our these books. Present all the opinions of big, big professors how traditional Indian culture is there. You have to fight, organize (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: He is a learned scholar and he is influential man in educational circles. There are many Indians you'll find, they are...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So we can mobilise all the Indians, that's the best process.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Indian opinion. I have already given suggestion. The Indians should come forward. And from here also, similar if the member... Respectable Indian businessmen they should say that this Kṛṣṇa cult is very, very old, genuine and we are so enlightened that Swami Bhaktivedanta has taken this movement to the foreign countries. We are so proud, like that.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We want to do that.
Prabhupāda: And that is a fact. Everyone is feeling proud. Take all signature of the gosvāmīs here, influential, that this is genuine. Prove there, that it is genuine movement.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And we have letters from Swami Premananda and all the (indistinct) from Bombay, and sent all these to Rāmeśvara.
Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone should join. Now people are taking this cultural movement so seriously and if our Indian leaders sleep, that is not good.
Prabhupāda: You should go to see Visvambhara Gosvāmī also. (Hindi) This is fortunate that you have come in this moment. So I'll give you this inspiration, now combine together all Vṛndāvana gosvāmīs. Kṛṣṇa cult is for everyone, either Gauḍīya or Rāmānuja or everyone. Now all of you should come forward. That you do. Admitting (Hindi conversation). They are concerned with the Kṛṣṇa cult. Kṛṣṇa cult means all the ācāryas, all the ācāryas, either Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka or anyone, they should combine together. (Hindi) (aside:) Why you are talking? It is not very important. It is for him. It is a very bad habit. (aside ends) So we should be very alert in this point. All the Vaiṣṇavas of different sampradāyas, especially Gauḍīya sampradāya, you should come forward to fight this. They are gathering their strength. We should gather our strength. Fight, Kṛṣṇa never said that "Don't fight." (He) never said (to) Arjuna that "You are My devotee, you don't fight. You are very good gentleman, nonviolent, and I shall do everything for you." (He) never said that. (indistinct) Kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samu.... viṣame samupasthitam. "Now there is a great dangerous fight, why you are saying like a nonsense," anārya-juṣṭam, like non-Aryan. (Hindi conversation) This fight is another good news that they are feeling the strength. Otherwise they would not have prepared to fight. Formerly they were thinking that so many swamis and yogis come, come and go. But now they are feeling the strength, they (are) charging that their young men are being kidnapped. It is strong party. And these boys, they have taken to Vaiṣṇava principles, their parents have tried to take them back and induce them to eat meat and according.... They deny. This is also tried. I have got many disciples, they are coming out very rich family, rich father. So one of the fathers called his son that "I am old man, the business is dwindling, you come and take..." So I told him that "You go. Why not take your father's business and use it for Kṛṣṇa?" So he went, on my order. The father wanted him to eat meat. So he denied that "I cannot do that. I can help in your business, but I cannot accept your way of life. That is not possible."
Prabhupāda: I will stay if you hold immediately meeting in this temple. We have got enough space here. First of all you see some leading gosvāmī, and then you chalk out how to fight. All the (indistinct). Now it is question of Kṛṣṇa cult, it is not only Gauḍīya. So take gosvāmīs, some of you and meet all the leaders and hold a meeting, immediately... And explain the whole situation. Let us combine and those who are educated, they should go. We shall arrange for their all expenditure. It doesn't matter. Fight. This is a genuine cult. If you discriminate, that is discrimination against religion, cult. We are accepting everyone but it is a genuine cult. You also Christian, you accept anyone, why you say it is not genuine? That we have to prove. There the Hindus and Indians who are there, they will also join. So immediately hold a meeting. It is very serious situation. (Hindi) This is genuine movement. Why the American government should be discriminating against a genuine religious sect, Kṛṣṇa? Make this company. Prasāda, give him prasāda. Very serious (Hindi) Are you...? Go with him. We have got any car?
Prabhupāda: Māyāpur, yes. So we are giving, as far as possible, comfortable life. Because modern man, he cannot go to the forest and live underneath a tree. That is not possible. Therefore by begging, begging, spending blood, we are getting money all over the world and spend it like this. For me, I can live anywhere. And I can collect one or two ruṭi anywhere. It is not for me. It is for you. I have invited. Come here, stay and preach this cult, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. That I want. People are being cheated all over the world shamelessly.
Indian lady: What about this Guru Grantha Saheb.(?) The philosophy which Guru Grantha Saheb has, what is that about?
Prabhupāda: Well why you are going here and there? Why don't you take one Bhagavad-gītā.
Indian lady: Inquisitive mind asks that question.
Prabhupāda: I do not know what is Guru Grantha Saheb, but I know Bhagavad-gītā. That's all. I am not so learned scholar that I have to read this, that, that. I simply know what Kṛṣṇa has said, and I know Caitanya Mahāprabhu advises yāre dekha tāre kaha. That I have done. That's all.
Prabhupāda: That every road is there. We have no such thing. (Hindi) But he's not recognized in... Wherefrom he has got the advertisement that in America he has done tremendous work. What they have done?
Girirāja: The government may like to popularize him because he preached the cult of "work hard."
Prabhupāda: What "work hard" he has... (indistinct)
Devotee: Other day one man was telling me they bought two of your Bhāgavatams, Ramakrishna Mission. He said that one Ranganath Swami from South India, from Hyderabad was lecturing there but he was... When he was lecturing he had your Bhāgavatam, First Canto, Part One in his hand and he was speaking from there. (laughter) I said it is very good.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Give him prasāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: As Gopalacharya has commented. He was a Vaiṣṇava.
Prabhupāda: Raj Gopalacharya was sensible man amongst the whole lot.
Dr. Patel: He was a Vaiṣṇava cult.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I know. Cakravarty. So (indistinct), I say that amongst the whole lot he was a sane man. Raj Gopalacharya. Because by culture he's a Vaiṣṇava. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...agreement with Jawaharlal Nehru.
Dr. Patel: He never was in agreement.
Prabhupāda: Not a single item. He therefore resigned. He wanted to form his own party.
Hari-śauri: Who's that, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Raj Gopalacharya.
Prabhupāda: No, there is Sarasvatī
Dr. Patel: You get Sarasvatī in Maharastra also, everywhere. (laughs)
Trivikrama: This is Dr. Patel. I heard him speaking two years ago because a tape came. At the time you were, you and Dr. Patel, you were having very heated conversations. But now I see he is subdued. (chuckles)
Dr. Patel: In these two years I have made an extensive study of the Vaiṣṇava cult, all the three branches of main Vaiṣṇavas, and I think, I think, sir, that... I have studied Śaṅkara also extensively, and I think Śaṅkara is misunderstood very much. That is our opinion.
Prabhupāda: No, no, not misunderstood. He made himself misunderstood.
Dr. Patel: But they all misunderstand the real purport of his...
Prabhupāda: Māyāvādam asac... He has to preach this Māyāvāda. He has to present himself in that way. Otherwise he is Vaiṣṇava. Māyāvādam asac-chāstraṁ pracchannaṁ bauddham ucyate.
Dr. Patel: Pracchannam Buddha, Śaṅkarācārya.
Prabhupāda: Mayaiva vihitaṁ devi kalau brāhmaṇa-mūrtinā. (break)
Dr. Patel: The most important group in all Vaiṣṇavas. Vaiṣṇava-bhakti-sat-saṅga anyathā yānti vido apy adhaḥ.(?) Even well-versed man will come down if he does not understand. All the branches of Vaiṣṇavism, they give the same comment.
Prabhupāda: Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ (SB 3.25.25). Without sat-saṅga, nobody can understand Kṛṣṇa. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55).
Prabhupāda: That is negative side. First of all... Just like mauna... (break) Why maunam? There is no need of maunam. You have to chant. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā. So there is negative side and positive side. One who has no information of the positive side, they simply take the negative side. Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Jagan mithyā is all right, but where is that brahma satyam? That brahma satyam is here, when you are fully engaged in serving. Brahma satyam does not mean I simply make negative this, and there is no engagement. That brahma satyam will not endure. You'll fall down, because you are active. If you have no engagement, then you fall down again. Just like a child, he is engaged in playing always, but engage him in studying. If he gets little interest, then automatically he gives up playing. But if you simply stop playing, then he will become mad, because activity is there. These Māyāvādī philosophers, they do not know this. They simply take the negative thing—this material engagement, zero, Buddha philosophy, nirvāṇa. And that nirvāṇa is another word, nirviśeṣa. That will not help us. There must be varieties and there must be positive life, and that is bhakti. So without bhakti you cannot stop your nonsense activities, neither...
Dr. Patel: (Hindu) But even you get the same thing by (Hindi). So Vaiṣṇava cult is easier than getting the mind blank and then getting all in the... Because here your mind is engaged to Lord Himself. It is... We call as samādhi.
Prabhupāda: Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). Just like a man is observing Ekādaśī, fasting. Another, in the hospital, he's also fasting. So these two fastings, they are different.
Dr. Patel: Here fasting of all the senses and applying to God.
Prabhupāda: For satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. And there compulsory fasting, but he has got desire. So paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate. When you get better taste, when you stop this nonsense for better taste, that is positive. Artificially, if you do, it will not benefit.
Prabhupāda: And Urvaśī was explaining Purūravā about woman's nature...
Dr. Patel: That sanctity of fact, not to us.
Prabhupāda: Fortunately, our men cannot have sex cult even up to the point of death.
Dr. Patel: What I mean to say is that we have...
Prabhupāda: Our, if you say, "our," so if one is sticking to the sex cult up to the point of death, he's not "our."
Dr. Patel: Sex cult...
Prabhupāda: Sex cult, yes, gṛhamedhī. Who stick into family life, that is sex cult. It has no other meaning. It is a concession of sex. To remain in household life means a concession of sex.
Devotee: So now you are sixty-five...
Dr. Patel: No, that is not sex. I am prepared to oppose you for hear.
Prabhupāda: No, I don't hear you. I hear the śāstra.
Prabhupāda: But we have got parents' organization also.
Rāmeśvara: Now we do. Anyway, they're using this law against us.
Prabhupāda: That they will do. They will do their best. We have to do our best. That's all.
Rāmeśvara: They say, "This would enable the court to remove the young person from the temple for medical examination and evaluation by cult-knowledgeable psychiatrists and psychologists." In other words, deprogramming. "This is the best thing to do. The media would report it..."
Prabhupāda: No, no. But one psyciatrist may give one verdict, but other psychiatrist may give another verdict. Then how the court will decide?
Rāmeśvara: Because in these temporary guardianship cases, the court is already against us in many places.
Prabhupāda: But... Against may be, but so far the decision of the psychiatrist, we can present our psychiatrist.
Rāmeśvara: There's no equal time given. It's one-sided only.
Prabhupāda: That means in the name of justice, injustice is going on.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the right cause. Yes.
Rāmeśvara: They're already working on that. So then they say, "If you can do this to your son, then it will get national news media into the scene, and then people will learn about Hare Kṛṣṇa in particular, and all the effects of destructive cults on our youth." Then it says, "We have a legal packet which contains advice on the procedure and techniques for legal deprogramming."
Prabhupāda: So nowhere they have mentioned my name. That is good. (laughter) Otherwise, I would have been the target. That was very dangerous.
Rāmeśvara: Sometimes... One of the general charges they make against all the different religious groups in America is that the leader is actually making a lot of profit for himself.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: Like this Reverend Moon, he lives in a very, very big house, and he has a big car. And this Guru Maharaj-ji, he has his own airplane.
Prabhupāda: Guru Maharaj-ji has got?
Rāmeśvara: He had his own airplane, which they had to sell.
Hari-śauri: That fat boy, Guru Maharaj-ji.
Prabhupāda: No, he had. So what is his position now?
Rāmeśvara: His family has called him a false guru. So there's a slip.
Prabhupāda: His mother.
Rāmeśvara: Then they say, "The next best thing to do after you get the deprogramming is to hold a press conference to explain all the reasons that there is a need for criminal conviction of destructive cult leaders. Have ex-victims, especially of Hare Kṛṣṇa, present. The truth of their personal experiences carry great weight with reporters. It is now necessary to awaken America to how widespread..."
Prabhupāda: I... In the beginning... I have told many times when I first went that "If I say these prohibitions, who will accept?" And now it has taken a shape, it has become a problem throughout the country. I was thinking, "Who will hear me? As soon as I'll say this, they'll say, 'Go home.' " But by Kṛṣṇa's arrangement it has become a problem. That is Kṛṣṇa's grace. It has become a problem for them; it is success for me. Yes. I presented something which is now a problem for them.
Jagadīśa: They waited too long. They didn't tell you to go home soon enough.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) No, my creed is at their home.
Jagadīśa: You planted seeds in their home.
Rāmeśvara: Sometimes they capture... Very rarely they capture one of our members and they convince him to leave. And after they convince him to leave our movement, then they tell him many lies about us. And then he goes on television and tells the American public that we brainwashed him. So sometimes they get some of our ex-members to speak against us. This is going on. In Los Angeles I have met three ex-devotees who viciously lie about us.
Prabhupāda: Who is he?
Rāmeśvara: Just minor devo... They're never leaders.
Rāmeśvara: Anyway, this goes on, but then what they're saying is there has to be a very big case where a cult leader of Hare Kṛṣṇa is sentenced to jail. So they're writing to say that "Now we have to find lawyers who will be willing to take up this cause very inexpensively."
Prabhupāda: That means there is no money.
Rāmeśvara: But one recent development which will change that is that they have appealed to the government that they are an educational group. Therefore they should be tax exempt like any other educational organization, and the government has agreed. Now they have gotten their tax exemption, so now these parents can donate lots of... Different people will start donating lots of money to them as tax write-offs. So I think that we will see that their activities will be expanded this year, because now they are tax exempt, they'll get a lot of money.
Hari-śauri: That news article said that someone had given them $105,000. Some parents of a cult...
Prabhupāda: No, there are rich parents. They can do that. And every parent is unhappy. (chuckles)
Rāmeśvara: The fighting will increase this year. It's getting very acute, as you said in that letter.
Prabhupāda: So they are feeling the strength of Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Rāmeśvara: And He is lying on Śeṣa. This exhibit is so spectacular, this Universal Form. It is more impressive than anything, I think, in America, because at a certain point there is even a machine which makes different fragrances in the air.
Prabhupāda: So you can invite this opposition cult to see what we are doing. "Why you are after us," ask, "like the barking dog? There is good use. It is the highest culture." Make some compromise: "Why you are after simply spoiling? Don't you want advancement in culture and knowledge? Why you are so envious?" Just try to bring the leaders, that "What is use? You also join. It is a culture. There is no need of repressing us. We are serious to introduce a new culture for the benefit of the whole nation. Why don't you study this? Do you mean to say we are publishing books only, all sentiment, brainwash, and people are purchasing?"
Hari-śauri: Yeah, if they condemn the whole thing, they have to condemn the whole, entire Hindu religion.
Prabhupāda: That's it. We have to fight in that way.
Hari-śauri: This is really separating us from these other cults because most of these other cults, they have no defense because their whole thing is a concoction. But for ourselves, we're actually practicing a standard way of worship, and we have so many testimonials from actual Hindus themselves.
Prabhupāda: No, outside scholars...
Hari-śauri: And from all the scholars and professors and everything.
Prabhupāda: "It is bona fide thinking and you are checking."
Hari-śauri: What complicates it is they get ex-cult members to come and testify that "Yes, I was psychologically kidnapped. I was made into a robot just to think of God."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: What is the next movement?
Hari-śauri: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (laughs)
Rāmeśvara: Hare Kṛṣṇa. They're just waiting now. They are waiting for something to happen.
Hari-śauri: All these religious, what they call the religious cults, came immediately after the hippies. That's the big thing now. There was the growth period for those. Now they're trying to destroy them. Of course, they won't destroy us, but they've succeeded in one or two other groups. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...below one person.(?) In the name of religious men, because they are not civilized even, it is further, further. This is going on. Actually there was no such...
Rāmeśvara: And another thing that came out of the hippie movement is this abortion. Because the whole thing... The slogan was "free sex." So now they have free sex.
Hari-śauri: Women's liberation was another thing.
Rāmeśvara: All based on sex. Abortion, divorce—everything related to sex has increased.
Hari-śauri: They used to carry signs, "I want the control of my body," the women, the women's liberation.
Prabhupāda: That is woman's liberation.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that's...
Rāmeśvara: But spiritual is something different. So they say "A recent survey indicates that a projected six million people are participating in the Maharishi's Transcendental Meditation. Five million are practicing yoga in one form or another." Mostly for health. "Three million in the charismatic movements." That is like the cults. "Three million in mysticism, and two million in Eastern religions." That's a lot of people they have estimated are participating in Eastern religion.
Prabhupāda: Eastern Indian.
Rāmeśvara: Mostly us, and some bogus so-called gurus.
Hari-śauri: Those charismatic movements, that's like the Jesus Christ movement. The Catholic preachers call that charismatic.
Rāmeśvara: "To estimate the average church attendance in 1976, surveys..." Oh, this just tells you how they took the survey. "So analysis of these figures shows that church attendance is up among all major population groups. The Catholics are better attendees than the Protestants. Women go more often than men." Women go more often than men in America. "Southerners and the Mid-Western"—from the South and the Mid-West—"they attend more frequently than they do in the East, and far more than those living in the West." So this says that people in the West, like California, they're the least religious. People in the East, like New York and Pennsylvania, they're a little more religious, and people in the Mid-West and the South, they're the most religious according to this survey. "Those who are under thirty years of age are less likely to go to church than those who are thirty and over." Younger people... Same trend, giving up...
Prabhupāda: They come to us.
Rāmeśvara: So they may sell it to us on that basis.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We shall develop. (break)
Gargamuni: ...talking about in Purī, that there's a class of men who are preaching that because of Caitanya's movement, Islam was spreading, because the king became somewhat weakened, they have said. So I met one such man there also at the Purī Hotel. He said, "What is this Hare Kṛṣṇa? By this Caitanya cult the Islam has spread." He was saying. So I told him, "You said that. We don't get any information historically. In fact it was the reverse, that this Hussain, the Nawab Hussain Shah, he became a great follower." He said, "No, that is not written anywhere." I said, "No, it is in Caitanya-caritāmṛta." He did not accept Caitanya-caritāmṛta as historic fact. He was a crazy man.
Prabhupāda: Demon.
Gargamuni: He was crazy also.
Rāmeśvara: You also blasted him. What did you say?
Hari-śauri: Tell him about those man who came to support you.
Gargamuni: Oh, yes. Then he was saying, "Our Vivekananda, he never did this Hare Kṛṣṇa. He's never done this." I said, "Well, actually..."
Prabhupāda: "What benefit you have got from Vivekananda?" You did not ask? What bene...?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Canada, Australia. The problem is that... Actually it's a fact that many of these groups are bad. They're cheating. Of course, ours is not, but because they're not very intelligent, they cannot see the distinction. Probably as a result of this court case, we will make them aware that now the other groups are bogus but we are not. That they'll have to admit. That will be the effect. But at least up until now we are being lumped in with these other bad groups. Cults, they call them. But it's a very dangerous thing. Therefore the lawyers and all of the scholars and intelligentsia of the United States is very alarmed that this is a great treading on human rights. This is a great danger to human rights because the Fifth Amendment of the... The First Amendment of the United States Constitution guarantees the freedom of religion. But according to these laws that they want to pass, a parent can say, "It is not a question of religion. My son has become abnormal." So who is to say what is religion and what is abnormal? They are saying, "This is not religion." So we have to prove, "No, this is... Hare Kṛṣṇa is a religion." Otherwise they are saying this is abnormal. Now, just... Our lawyer has pointed out that if you say that the devotees' preaching is brainwash, then you must say that every single Christian priest who preaches, he is also brainwashing.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Being afraid of.
Hari-śauri: That's like when you first made it International Society for Krishna Consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. So they have taken it very seriously, to stop.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. Because their own young children, the future of the country, are joining these cults.
Brahmānanda: Two states have now passed laws making this deprogramming legal, and also they have given tax exemption. That means the government is giving...
Prabhupāda: Support.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Support.
Brahmānanda: And they're even talking that maybe the government will give financial grant.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are afraid that these Kṛṣṇa conscious men may capture the government.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Some of them are saying like that, "This organization, the Kṛṣṇa con..., is a very powerful organization, and their ambition is to take over the world."
Prabhupāda: (laughs) And that's a fact. (laughter) Well, let us see. (laughter) It is a fight between Kṛṣṇa and demon. Let us do our duty and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Everything will be all right. There are so many demons. Prahlāda Mahārāja was five-years-old boy, and his father, such a big demon... The fight was at home. Still, Prahlāda Mahārāja gained victory. Similarly, you are all Prahlāda Mahārāja, (laughs) and your fathers are great demons. The fight is there. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Depend on Kṛṣṇa. You'll come out victorious. Nṛsiṁha-deva will come. So the poison of (laughing) Kṛṣṇa consciousness is acting now. That is good. If we come out victorious, then it will be a great victory.
Prabhupāda: Hm. They influence.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And then they get these local men to come together in groups and try to pass laws. So it's not simply that the... But there is more and more now a feeling amongst the government members towards..., favorable to the deprogrammers and against the cults on account of the cheating nature of the other cults. So there's definitely...
Prabhupāda: They should be.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. It's definitely... The sentiment is definitely against us and for the deprogrammers amongst government leaders. It's not in our favor. There's no doubt about it. The courts are definitely against us, and the government is also. It's serious.
Prabhupāda: So what can we do?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think we have to do exactly what what we are doing.
Prabhupāda: That is...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: More vigorously.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) That's it. And the Hyderabad report, that English education, they are inclined. There are so many here. That's not very good idea. As soon as they get English education...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll leave. So we should not encourage that at all. I think it's different than here.
Prabhupāda: No, their attention should be in chanting. And produce their own food, agriculture. And as soon as they get English education, then... Not "as soon as," but not all of them are fit for being educated. It is not possible. They are śūdra class of men. What he will be educated? Śūdra, vaiśya, they should learn how to plow, how to produce food. They are thinking otherwise, that "Plowing is great labor. If we educate our boys in English, they can go to the city. Immediately they get some..."
Prabhupāda: Real mother.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everyone is from divorced family. Jayapatākā's mother, my parents, Brahmānanda's parents. Brahmānanda's mother called him. We think that they were trying to deprogram Brahmānanda, because the second day that Brahmānanda arrived in New York, suddenly his mother called. How could she have gotten news that he was coming to New York? We never told her. But as soon as he arrived in New York she called him. So we ascertained they are listening to all of our telephone conversations. And they know. They are writing. The deprogrammers are writing to all of the devotees' parents in the movement, and they are going and talking to the parents, saying, "Do you know what your son..." or "Do you know what your daughter is doing? Are you aware that your daughter has lost all of her free choice? That they're being brainwashed now by this cult? That they are giving her... They have spoiled her whole life?" In this way they try to pollute the minds of the parents who are innocent.
Hari-śauri: They're doing that everywhere, too. In Australia they're doing the same thing there, too.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And they know all of the devotees' parents' names. Because the few devotees who do become deprogrammed, they give them all the names they know. And they have some informers within our temple also. All of our parents have told us that the deprogrammers contacted them.
Prabhupāda: They're organized.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I have seen London. So many hundreds of churches are closed.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we're buying all the churches.
Prabhupāda: All churches are closed.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just see. They call a meeting of five hundred rabbis, all of the leading rabbis, and the Jewish leaders in the whole USA, just to deal with this question of "The cults taking our children."
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Us? Au...?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We're the main cult.
Prabhupāda: Then? This is a verse. They do not know what is the aim of life.
Hari-śauri: "Neither cleanliness nor proper behavior nor truth is found in them." All liars and cheats.
Prabhupāda: This is demon.
Ādi-keśava: For every letter that the deprogrammers write to some Congressmen, they have to write a letter. For every speech that the deprogrammers give, they must give a speech. That is the only way it will work. Just like they applied to the Catholic Church to speak in the classes of the Catholic Church about cults and deprogramming. So now we have also had our people apply to the Catholic Church that we can also speak in their classes in favor of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: So then you have to go?
Ādi-keśava: But they have to do it because they will listen to the professionals. They won't listen to us. They say, "You just want to talk your religion." But if a professional man, a big professor, comes in and says, "I can tell you..."
Prabhupāda: We have got so many professor friends. There is Dr. Stillson Judah, Dr. Sukla. There are so many.
Ādi-keśava: Dr. Sukla is here in India now.
Prabhupāda: And our doctors also, Ph.D., they can go.
Prabhupāda: By this agitation our position will be improved. Prahlāda Mahārāja was suppressed in so many means. What was loss on his part? He improved more and more, more and more. If Christ were not crucified, then his cult would not have spread so much all over the world. The Christian cult was spread all over the world after demise of Christ, not during his time. Is it not?
Satsvarūpa: Yes. The history was that there were many... At that time there many, many cults, and that was just another cult during the Roman Empire, and then that cult became very, very dominant.
Prabhupāda: Because he was persecuted, his cult became so spread.
Devotee: In Brazil, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we make a twenty minutes' in television, very, very nice.
Prabhupāda: In Brazil.
Girirāja: We can take by palanquin.
Prabhupāda: No, one story I can go. Not now, but I can go. So you are trying so much for my comfort. I do not know whether I shall be able to repay you. Then I shall try my best. It is not possible to repay your debts, that so kind. So I can simply pray to Kṛṣṇa to give His blessings to you so that you may remain very steady in devotional service and preach this cult all over the world. Otherwise, I have no other means. Without your help I could not do anything. So you are very much kind. Kindly continue your cooperation. Paropakāra. This is the movement for paropakāra. I have got report from our other temples all over the world. They are doing very nice, is it not? Other temples outside India, they are doing very nice.
Dr. Sharma: Yes, I did. The commentations of Professor Trieste(?) is very interesting. But I liked one particular aspect of it. But the West has been almost ridiculing the evils of praising (indistinct) animal cult(?). For example it is ordinary or else it is extraordinary. There is a lot of difference in the (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: They do not know the value of the animals.
Dr. Sharma: Yes. They do not know. The real principle behind the praying to a tree or praying to stones or praying to idol worship, it signifies how grateful we are to the nature that is going around in praise of the Lord. Even to go (indistinct) the tree, the tree which happens to give the leaf, the shelter, the fruits, the roots, the bark of the tree—it has got so bulk of the nature created by God. And we are grateful to these things, and it shows how grateful we are to things, it shows a lot of gratitude we have. But that aspect of it is not being appreciated.
Prabhupāda: They have not been educated. Therefore, actually speaking, there is no real knowledge outside India. Mūḍha.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, you wrote this in your purport in Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: That should be confirmed(?). Caitanyera dayāra kathā karaha vicāra. Don't accept it blindly. We have not accepted Caitanya cult blindly. This is practical. The purpose was to separate from India to become happy. Where is the happiness?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Civil strife.
Prabhupāda: And that is real happiness?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda: Not they are. And this was the British plan: "So they are driving away? All right, make such arrangement. They'll perpetually remain unhappy."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Next, from the Indian Institute of Technology in Bombay. This is from Dr. Ram Kanstanari(?) Chairman of the Department, Indian Institute of Technology, Department of Humanities and Social Sciences. " 'Sir: I am pleased to make the following comments concerning your beautiful and learned publications, Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta of Gosvāmī Kṛṣṇa Kavirāja and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, both written by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. I feel that these works are the result of Swami Prabhupāda's extraordinary commitment to the bhakti cult in the Indian tradition. Swami Prabhupāda's style and language are full of the flashes of his intuition. They clearly represent his realization that love for God and for mankind should be the foundation of all interpersonal relations. Kṛṣṇa is the symbol of this love. He is the Absolute in an incarnate form. Love for Kṛṣṇa therefore sung in all forms of devotion-laden language asserts man's empathy towards His entire creation. The Central Library of the Indian Institute of Technology, Bombay, has already secured, on my recommendation, the above-mentioned works complete. These works are read by the faculty and students here, not only for their religious message but also for the unique interpretation they embody of the traditional cult of bhakti in India. The poetic and devotionalistic tenor of these works, I am sure, would make one realize the meaning of man's dependence on God. I have no hesitation to state that His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda has done an immortal service to the movement of devotionism and Hinduism in particular and in world religions in general, by so ably bringing out these works in beautiful English. Every library in the world that is engaged in promoting the welfare of the human self by turning it towards the supremacy of the divine spirit...' "
Prabhupāda: Everyone is recommending. All libraries.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: " '...should have on its shelf these works.' " Next is a letter from Trinvak Govind Meinpark(?), Professor of Sanskrit and Head of the Department at the University of Bombay. " 'His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, the renowned Vedic scholar and founder-ācārya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, has translated into English the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Caitanya-caritāmṛta, the Encyclopedia of Vedic Culture.' " Now it's getting to be known like that. " 'The special feature of this publication is to be seen in the explanatory notes, added with a view to summing up the purport of the passages rendered. The Bhāgavatam is a classic of the Kṛṣṇa cult, and in the manner of sweetness, sincerity of devotion and purity of emotion, it surpasses all other texts of the Purāṇas, as well as other texts of the Bhāgavata religion. As such it is no wonder that it has become a veritable scripture of the devotees of this cult. Again, of all incarnations of the highest Lord, the Kṛṣṇa incarnation has a peculiar fascination for the Indian mind and has all along exercised a great influence over the Hindu religious mind—in fact, of all minds that have God consciousness. The Lord's grace, His interest and deep concern for His devotees and even for sinners, His great love for all beings without any distinction of order, caste, creed, and sex, His ever-willingness to look after all ardent devotees, His extreme sweetness, all these qualities have made Him the most easily lovable of the divine manifestations. The text of the Bhāgavata, scenes of the whole life of the Lord from His childhood to His withdrawal from the world, yet the philosophical aspects receive greater emphasis than the historical ones.' " Not simply that it's some stories, but full of philosophy. " 'Along with the Bhāgavata, the Caitanya-caritāmṛta has received as much care and attention in the translation by Śrīla Prabhupāda. The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust is presenting these two sets as an encyclopedia of our culture, and our university has made a standing order of these volumes, which our students delight in reading. There is no doubt that the Swamiji has immensely obliged all lovers of our Vedic culture and devotees of Kṛṣṇa cult by this simple, clear, faithful, and illuminating rendering into English. The notes bring out beautifully the subtle implications of the Sanskrit and Bengali text. The lay reader is thus greatly helped in appreciating and understanding the brilliant simplicity of the path of bhakti.' "
Prabhupāda: What he is?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is the Head of the Department of Sanskrit at the Bombay University. " 'The printing is really excellent and the general get-up highly attractive. I have nothing but the highest praise for this splendid publication. The BBT's encyclopedia would be a valuable asset to each school and college library as well as all general libraries throughout the world.' " These reviews are as good as your books, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: You do it, without God. Then I take it seriously. Otherwise empty voice simply, nonsensical.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Elders should be careful to give sound knowledge based on objective evidence to their children. Unfortunately a lot of delusional ideas are put into the minds of children in the name of religion. Dāsa and Swami talk about rebirth, soul, Supreme Soul, life generating matter, etc.... As a result of such delusional ideas put into them by deluded Indian God-man, Prabhupāda, who founded the bizarre cult know as Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Oh, he's a real demon, this man. Kṛṣṇa has a place already put aside for him. His science won't help him at that time. "Knowledge and enlightenment cannot be had through meditation, which is only a form of self-hypnosis. Dāsa and Swami ask whether scientists can make a chicken to come out of a plastic egg. I do not know whether they are aware that scientists have made over ten elements, such as fermium, (indistinct), serium..." That's all right. We're asking about a chicken. We're not asking about the elements.
Prabhupāda: Rascal, you are simply producing empty sound. Where is the chicken? Rascal. The chicken, the hen, is greater scientist than you. (S)he'll produced another egg within a week. You simply "This, that, this, that, this, that," that's all. "Left, right, that way." What is your value? We don't give you value. Less important than the chicken.
Prabhupāda: What is value of atomic energy? A man is dying; you have accelerated his death. That's all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Landing on the moon..."
Prabhupāda: Have you invented something that man will not die? Then it is approved. They are dying. You have given facilities to die earlier. That is atomic energy. There is no energy which can save him—"No more death." Is that improvement? By nature one dies natural death, and you have accelerated-many millions of people can be killed by this atomic weapon. So what is your achievement? Save millions of people.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Mentally deranged intellectuals are capable of expatiating on their hallucinations."
Prabhupāda: So who is mentally deranged?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says we are. He says, "And they often become founders and preachers of diverse types of religious cults."
Prabhupāda: No, no. Your atomic energy, what benefit has done to the people?
| Page Title: | Cult (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 17 of Feb, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=107, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 107 |