Prabhupāda: Jesus Christ has taken contract for all our sinful activities, so we can do anything, whatever we like. But that is not the fact. If one takes responsibility for you, you must abide by his order. Otherwise how is that, that he simply takes responsibility and you don't abide by his order? It is reciprocal. But the Christians are thinking, "Because we have taken to Christian religion, now we are safe. We can do anything we like and Lord Jesus Christ will compensate. He'll be every time crucified and we can go on doing all nonsense." Is it not? Then? That's not a very good idea. This is, as Viśvanātha Cakravartī said, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo **. If you please your spiritual master, then God will be pleased. If you don't please him, then you are nowhere. So first of all you please Jesus Christ, that is reasonable, then he takes the responsibility. If you disobey Jesus Christ in every step, what is his responsibility? That is a misconception.
Crucifixion (Conversations)
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Conversations and Morning Walks
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: They have taking it very easily: "Let Lord Jesus Christ suffer, and we do all nonsense." Is it not?
Bob: It is so.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They should have been ashamed that "Lord Jesus Christ suffered for us. Instead of... We are continuing the sinful activities still. He asked everyone, 'Thou shall not kill,' and we are indulging in killing." And "Lord Jesus Christ will excuse us, take all the sinful reaction." This is going on. (break) ...should be very much cautious that "For my sinful actions my spiritual master will suffer. So I'll not commit a pinch of sinful action." That is the duty of the disciple. After initiation his all sinful reaction is finished. Now if he again commits sinful activities, the spiritual master has to suffer. They should be sympathetic for this, that "For my sinful activities my spiritual master will suffer." (break) ...attacked with some disease it is due to the sinful activities of the disciples. Exactly like Lord Jesus Christ was crucified on account of the sinful activities of others. (break) ...forbidden, "Don't make many disciples." But we do because we are preaching. Never mind, let us suffer; still, we shall accept.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So he should be insulted everywhere. Our men should go and do that, pie. (laughter) And when you have to (indistinct) He's God. Why can't you protect. He should have been killed. We have no such power. Otherwise, I would have obliged to kill him. Anyone says God, he should be killed. That is the example given by Kṛṣṇa. He should be killed. No other remedy. Only kill him. That's all. Then this false propaganda will stop. Just like the Christians said: Jesus Christ, God. And how God can be killed by crucification? We do not discuss this point, but actually this is the fact. He was empowered man, that we can understand. But we cannot accept him God. In our history, God is never killed. God kills others. That we have got evidence. And ordinary men, they took him, and crucified, and nobody, other, of the opposite party was killed. So that makes a little difference. So far son of God, that we accept. Everyone is son of God. We accept him śaktyāveśa avatāra, a living entity especially powered from God. That we can accept. So son of God we can accept. That is another thing. And where is the evidence in the śāstras that God was killed? Big, big giant, God fought them and killed them. Rāvaṇa, Hiraṇyakaśipu, Kaṁsa. Very, very great giant and demon. God was never killed by them. Is it not? Yes. Prahlāda Mahārāja said that: "What is this material power. My father was so materially strong. Even demigods and Indra, Candra, they were afraid. And He killed him within a moment. So what is the use of this material power?" And the God could not kill these crucifiers? As soon as they attempted to kill, there would have, He has, would have fought. He had to show some power. And they say that he agreed to take all our sin, and he crucified
Bali Mardana: You are more merciful than any of them, Prabhupāda. You have come to the western countries.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yes, Vaiṣṇava is, if one man is real Vaiṣṇava. Just like see Jesus Christ. It is said that he took everyone's sins and he was crucified. So how much merciful he is, just see. But these rascals have taken, that "Let us go on committing sinful activities, and Christ has taken contract. He will suffer. And we shall do this." Such rascals. You see. They say that "Our Christian religion is so good that even we commit sinful acts, Christ will suffer, we shall not suffer." Just see.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: I asked them, "Just become lover of God. That's all. If you can love God through your religion, that's all right. You do that." I said that. I never said that "You become Hindu." Then I would not have been able to...
Dr. Patel: I think that they must understand, sir, that Hinduism is a way of life and not a religion. Religion is a Vedic religion, which is common to Christianity. I would say that Jesus Christ has taught the Vedic religion to the Middle East and to the heathens and he was crucified because the heathens were not able to understand him properly. That is what my, I mean, convictions, strong conviction is that Jesus had actually preached Hinduism, I mean Vedic religion there.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he was...
Dr. Patel: And all religions are in fact Vedic.
Prabhupāda: He was educated of his spiritual life in India. Twelve years here. Twelve years he was. And he lived in Jagannātha temple.
Dr. Patel: Yesterday I found out a very good article. I have preserved it for you. I have forgot to bring it. I'll bring it in the afternoon from Journal, how where he stayed and how he was in India in Himalayas. Some man has made a research. Some Russian scholar has made a research for forty years, in various places and found out from various libraries the all, the old records.
Prabhupāda: There was once a historian report that after crucification he did not die. He...
Dr. Patel: He was in samādhi.
Prabhupāda: He came in India and...
Dr. Patel: Lived somewhere in Kashmir. That is what I have in article. He lived for a very long time after crucifixion. In crucifixion he went in great samādhi, and when the cross was brought down, he came out of samādhi after three days. That is the resurrection.
Prabhupāda: He was... Yes.
Dr. Patel: And then he was brought back by his disciples to India.
Prabhupāda: That is quite possible.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Recently, there was a historical excavation that Jesus Christ did not die, and he, after crucification, he was taken to Kashmir.
Yogeśvara: Kashmir?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (French)
Yogeśvara: Where was this? In a newspaper?
Prabhupāda: Yes. In paper I saw. (French)
French Woman: But we are not under historical literally. We try to speak of mystical experience. This is exactly the subject of, that we did. We cannot discuss history because everybody has his own documentation.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So I was very much pleased because I was very sorry that Jesus Christ was crucified. But when I heard this historical discovery, I was very satisfied. But one thing is that... Here, at least, in London, I have seen. There are so many churches vacant.
Prabhupāda: So poor Christ has taken all concern. He will be crucified, and they will enjoy life. This is very easy religion. "I have nothing to do, and besides that, if Christ says something to do, that also we can neglect because he has taken guarantee. So although Christ says, 'Thou shalt not kill,' I can neglect that." And then, if still he is captured, he will say, "Bible is very old."
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Devotee (1): In Africa, recently, one of the leaders has taken all the mūrtis and crucifixes from the churches and put his own statue.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Devotee (1): He has banned all religions.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Devotee (1): He put his own statue there, that the people should worship him. He's a disciple of Mao.
Prabhupāda: And because there is no king, therefore he is flourishing.
Devotee (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Had there been any real king, he would have been killed immediately. Because there is no king, therefore in South India, they are insulting the statue of Lord Rāmacandra, because there is no king. Everyone is king. Diplomacy... Democracy. What is this nonsense, democracy? All over the world the royalty is hereditary, never elected.
Prabhupāda: They foolishly say that oṁkāra is better than Kṛṣṇa. There is no need of chanting "Kṛṣṇa." That is not good. But so far we are concerned, we say there is no difference between oṁkāra and Kṛṣṇa. Other systems, Christianism or Buddhism or Mohamedanism, they have got one book, Koran, Bible, or... What is the Buddhist scripture? One book. And we have got so many, dealing with the same subject matter. So which is better? Higher mathematics, or two plus two? They should understand the gravity of this movement, my presentation of books. They haven't got so many books. Two thousand years past, the Christian religion has got only one book, Bible. And their only pastime of Christ is crucifixion. There is the cross. Therefore it has become hackneyed. People are no more interested. Neither they can explain very nicely. Neither they follow strictly whatever little information they have.
Amogha: I telephoned that geographer yesterday to talk to him, and he said that "What Swamiji said was true, but how can...?" He said, "It will be very difficult to apply because most people, they are not interested." But he says it was very... He could understand that was true, what you were saying. He may also come again to talk more.
Prabhupāda: Yes, let him come. Let him come. People may take or not take, but he is inquisitive gentleman. Let him understand. People... We are preaching. Who is taking? Mass of people, they are not taking it. But still, we are doing that. That is our duty. People may take or not take, but a God's servant must speak the truth. Just like Jesus Christ. He was crucified. Nobody took his words. But he did it. If people would have accepted his philosophy, then why he was crucified by the judges? It was done by the judges, Roman judges. So this is the position of the world. Socrates was killed because he said that there is soul. This is the defect of Western civilization. They want vox populi.
Socrates said there is soul, and he was killed because vox populi was against. Christ was killed because vox populi was against. This is the defect of the Western civilization. During the lifetime of Christ, nobody accepted. When he was killed, or crucified, then the other saintly persons, they gave their experience, what they learned from Jesus Christ. Christ could not give any words. Some sporadic words were there, and the Bible was made on that basis. Actually, the Bible is not the word, directly words of Christ.
Prabhupāda: The Americans, they have no value for their money.
Yogi Bhajan: No, no, nothing.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they can waste very lavishly.
Yogi Bhajan: But they are very beautiful people. One of the girl there in your organization almost brought tears to my eyes. And it is very seldom I have tears, and I love them when they come. And she said to me, she just came and hugged me. "Oh, Yogiji, I love you, you came." I said, "Oh, don't tell anybody. I just want to go around. And I want to run away." So she knows me. And she took me to her one store where there where a lot of books, and she asked me to have some books, and some of them I had, some I didn't. So I picked up. And she said, "You know, we were raised like dogs. Now we are being raised like gods. You think this old man, our god, is going to stay with us?" You know, she is very young in your organization. I said, "What are you talking, a old man?" She said, "Our Prabhupāda." Then she took your whole name with reverence. And I looked in her eyes. I said, "Look, my dear daughter, if that man has taught you so much love, then you will never be separated. Keep doing what you are doing. You will be all right." There is devotion. There is a power to learn. There is a power to gain. They have many faults, but they have many merits also. I think it is a time to present them, as they perform of the humanist to the whole world. And that will take away a lot of misunderstandings.
Prabhupāda: No, misunderstanding, there are... That will continue. You see?
Yogi Bhajan: I hundred percent agree. When we wanted to join the...
Prabhupāda: Especially in the Western countries they had misunderstanding with Christ so that they crucified him. You see? So this is the...
Prabhupāda: So the news was there that Jesus Christ, after crucification, he was alive, and he went to... (aside:) Not so near. And he went to Kashmir. So by the yogic process, in samādhi one can remain alive although superficially he is seen that he is killed. That is possible. Hiraṇyakaśipu did that. He was undergoing tapasya for one hundred years of the demigods. Their duration of time is: our six months, their one day. So such a long time he was undergoing austerity, penance, and thus he became perfect. So his body was practically finished by the earthworm, what is called, moths and ants.
Prabhupāda: (Break) ...right time. I don't think he had many followers.
Cyavana: Very few.
Prabhupāda: Only twelve, and out of them some proved infidel.
Cyavana: Yes.
Brahmānanda: One betrayed him.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Cyavana: Peter?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Judah.
Prabhupāda: And after resurrection he had to go away to India.
Cyavana: Yes. That's 'cause they tried to kill him.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because if he had declared that "I am not dead," perhaps he would have been again crucified.
Cyavana: Yes. They would keep trying to kill him.
Prabhupāda: Because the people were so intelligent, they would not believe him, so out of fear he went away. "All right, stop my preaching. Come on. (laughs) Let me go to find some safe place." (laughter)
Dr. Patel: Nomenclature. Christ was really a bhāgavata, I mean, in a true sense.
Prabhupāda: Anyone who accepts God, he is bhāgavata.
Dr. Patel: Christ, sir, really taught absolutely bhāgavata-dharma. The way... All his sayings, the New Testament and his Sermon on Mount, all is absolutely Bhāgavata. I have studied it very, in great detail and compared the two myself. So Christ was the greatest Hindu, to tell the truth. But as those people in the Middle East were heathens and absolutely junglis, they crucified him. Had he been here he would have been a big saint and avatāra.
Prabhupāda: Recent history is that he did not die. He came to Kashmir.
Dr. Patel: Came to Kashmir. There is a tomb in Kashmir. I read some literature about it. His resurrection... They say that they smuggled him out of that cave. It is possible. When he was on the cross, he...
Prabhupāda: No, even by yoga system...
Dr. Patel: He must have gone in a trance.
Prabhupāda: He lived by trance.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: The Christian people say like that, that "We cannot become pious. We.... Let us go on doing all nonsense, and Christ will suffer." Is that very good?
Guest (3): I agree with you, see. I really do. But what I'm saying is I believe that we're not all perfect, and we're working for perfection.
Prabhupāda: No, no, I say that what is the difficulty to become perfect?
Guest (3): Well, we have to learn and...
Prabhupāda: That means we are nonsense. If there is no difficulty to become perfect and still we remain imperfect, that means we are nonsense.
Guest (3): I see, well, okay.
Prabhupāda: That means you are first-class nonsense.
Guest (3): I see. All right, well...
Prabhupāda: Where is the difficulty? Christ's picture is there. Suppose we have got our picture, Kṛṣṇa. So all right, don't believe in Kṛṣṇa. But you have got picture of Christ, and you can see that he is being crucified. The cross is your symbol.
Guest (4): We don't worship the dead Christ.
Prabhupāda: You may not, but Christians.... The Christians, they put the cross, a reminder that "Christ suffered for us." This is the cross. So we became sinful, and the Lord, he suffered for us. We should stop this sinful activity. That is sanity. But "Christ will suffer, he'll be repeatedly crucified, and we shall go on with our nonsense activity." Is that religion?
Guest (3): Well, I agree with you there.
Prabhupāda: So that is the point.
Guest (3): But I have a different thought and feeling.
Prabhupāda: You may have, but we are talking on the principle that if we are so base and fallen down that we go on committing sinful life and "Christ will be crucified; I'll be saved," that way is said, what kind of religion? "One should continually suffer for my sin, and I am free to act sinfully." Is that religion?
Guest (3): Well, we don't believe that Christ continues to suffer.
Prabhupāda: No, but the Christians do that. They are maintaining.... Christ says, "Thou shall not kill," and they are maintaining thousands of killing house, and still they are passing on as Christian.
Guest (3): Well, they're wrong.
Prabhupāda: That is the point.
Guest (3): I agree with you.
Prabhupāda: So you should tell them.
Guest (3): Well, we are. That's what we're here for.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that "You are not Christian. Don't call yourself as Christian. You are persistently disobeying, beginning..." Christ said, "Thou shall not kill," and the Christians began killing Christ, crucifying Christ. And that is going on still, in large scale, and they are still Christian. The Pope is eating meat and.... I do not wish to say so many things. These are going on, and still, they are Christians. What can I say?
Guest (3): Do you believe that...
Prabhupāda: It is not a question of believe or not believe. We are talking of fact.
Devotee (3): Kṛṣṇa is our only insurance, and you are the, you are the insurance representative.
Prabhupāda: People are so intelligent that when the representative of Kṛṣṇa speaks, they (indistinct) enemies, and sometimes they crucify, kill. So people are so kind that they are not killing. Otherwise, why Christ, (indistinct) was killed? What fault? What is his fault? Just see. Was there any fault in his words? He advised, "Don't kill," and he was crucified. We have to deal with such rascals. I may be representative, but he is directly son of God. People are so rascal that they did not believe even the son of God, what to speak of His representative. What is that? Why Jesus Christ was killed? What was his fault? People are (indistinct). What the Christians will ask? Therefore we are (indistinct) and not only that, they have been giving this idea that "For our sinful reaction Christ has taken contract, so let him suffer being killed(?)." Cow-killing is very, very sin, "That's all right; don't mind. Christ will suffer." How easy understanding they have.
Prabhupāda: Jesus ate fish, therefore we shall eat our sons? Is that any reason? Jesus ate fish, therefore I shall eat my son.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And where does it say he ate any meat? Never. Simply fish. So we should tell them, "Then you eat fish, but don't eat meat. Stop meat-eating."
Hari-śauri: One of the great things is that they like to drink wine as well, because Jesus drank wine.
Rāmeśvara: Yes, he drank wine.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he didn't go to the bar. The way he drank wine was in a sacrifice. You're drinking in a bar. So anyway, we should tell them, if you...
Prabhupāda: Jesus drank wine, but nobody said Jesus is a drunkard.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Drunkard, exactly. And you can also, when you can do all the things that he did, then you can also drink wine.
Prabhupāda: No, Jesus was crucified, I shall crucify you. Come on. You're so pious that now you prepare to be crucified. Come on.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And you forgive me for doing it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. You take my sins and be crucified. Then I shall know that you are real (unclear). Take all my sins and I crucify you.
Rāmeśvara: This Reverend Moon, he has started a very big movement among Christians. His philosophy is that the mission of Jesus Christ was to have sex life so that there will be perfect children.
Prabhupāda: Just see what nonsense he is.
Rāmeśvara: And they crucified him before he was married.
Prabhupāda: Even Christ.... Eh?
Rāmeśvara: His philosophy is that Jesus Christ was crucified before he got himself married and had some children—"Therefore I am Jesus Christ again, coming to make children. I am the new Messiaḥ."
Prabhupāda: This rascal is.... And foolish persons are accepting him. How.... No, they are doing that. They are sanctioning homosex, sanctioning abortion. They've lost, Christianity and all.... (japa)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This very much describes modern civilization also. They are such aśuci-vratāḥ, they are given much respect in modern-day society. And the devotees, sometimes we go preaching and put into jail.
Prabhupāda: It is very fortunate they are not crucifying you. Putting into jail, but they crucified Lord Jesus Christ, they were so intelligent. Because he was preaching God consciousness, he was crucified. What was his fault? He was talking of God, therefore he was crucified.
Pradyumna: One time we went to a church in Boston to speak. They had only a pulpit for the preacher, and behind, no altar, no crucifix, nothing, just big map of outer space with planets on the wall. Not even any Christian church, but no cross, nothing. Only universe. Universalist Church, it's called. The Universalists.
Prabhupāda: That's nice, but give some information of the universe.
Rāmeśvara: They say that after Jesus Christ was crucified in Israel, he rose, and then the next stop he came to America.
Prabhupāda: Next...?
Rāmeśvara: Next he came to America. Because Jesus, they say, is the savior of the whole world, so why just Israel?
Haṁsadūta: The same thing happened to Jesus. Because so many people would follow him the government became very...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That what do you call it? Crucified?
Haṁsadūta: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: He was becoming very popular. So...
Haṁsadūta: And at least according to Bible, it appeared that the Jewish priests, they went to the governor or the chief man at that time, and they demanded that he has to do something about this man.
Prabhupāda: They have proposed it. That Houston politician, "It is spreading like epidemic." Hm? Come. "It is spreading like epidemic. Something must be done." Otherwise one day they'll capture our government." That's a fact. If so many young men join this movement, they will vote. Because your country is democratic. (conchshell blows) Do this what I suggested
Jagadīśa: We had harassment from the police in Montreal for two years. Sometimes they even beat up the devotees. They have put them into jail...
Prabhupāda: They have beaten even our book sellers in airports.
Hari-śauri: Chicago.
Jagadīśa: And the police mistreat the devotees. But still, the devotees continue and now in Montreal there's no trouble.
Prabhupāda: They crucified Jesus, what to speak of devotees. Prahlāda Mahārāja was persecuted, Haridāsa Ṭhākura. I think I shall not go to Europe, America, for some time. (laughter)
Hari-śauri: Not unless this gets cleared up.
Prabhupāda: Because it is being discussed about me. They say, "Old man is behind this movement."
Hari-śauri: Even in Australia now they're having the same thing, kidnapping and everything. It's everywhere.
Prabhupāda: That means they are feeling the weight. It is spreading.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So even in your own country, the priest talks crazily. We should reply that. Why do you go to India? In your country, your countrymen take it.
Rāmeśvara: Jesus was crucified in his own country.
Dr. Patel: By his own men.
Prabhupāda: There is a Bengali proverb (Bengali). In a village, if a saintly person comes from outside, he is invited. And if a saintly person there is in the village, nobody cares for him.
Rāmeśvara: And also the lawyers and psychologists are also organizing in their own fields nationwide committees just to defend us.
Prabhupāda: It is so much mercy from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa wanted all these things. Unless there is... Kṛṣṇa became important when He killed so many demons, not lying down on the lap of mother Yaśodā. And while He was on the lap of mother Yaśodā, from that day He began to kill. He began to kill. And there was attack. Therefore Kṛṣṇa became the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So even Kṛṣṇa was not exempted, what to speak of us. Prahlāda Mahārāja was not exempted. As soon as you speak of God, this opposition will come. Jesus Christ was crucified. So they are so kind they have not crucified me or my men. (laughs) Otherwise you have to expect all these things. Nityānanda Prabhu was personally injured. So these are the... Haridāsa Ṭhākura was beaten in twenty-two bazaars. This task is like that.
Hari-śauri: Yes. You said preaching is a thankless task.
Prabhupāda: Just see Jesus Christ-crucified. What was his fault? He was crucified. Of course, he was not crucified. Nobody can crucify him. But the people are so thankless...
Hari-śauri: That they wanted to do that.
Prabhupāda: Such a great personality, son of God. He wanted to deliver God consciousness. And return, he was crucified. We don't take Jesus Christ very insignificantly. We give him all honor. He's representative of God. He tried to preach according to the time, place, circumstances, country, people. Otherwise he is representative of God.
Hari-śauri: Yeah. He only preached for three years too.
Prabhupāda: He could not preach even but still, in three years what he did is wonderful.
Hari-śauri: Yes, He's world famous for the last two thousand years.
Prabhupāda: Yes, not joke. Unless he's God representative, how he can be so famous? That we know. I told in Melbourne, "What is your idea of Jesus Christ?" And "He's our guru," I told. You remember that?
Prabhupāda: Why I shall be put into this condition because my original position is eternal? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). That we are teaching to the whole world: "Why you are suffering with this body? Get out of the body." This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is the best welfare activity to the human society, but because they are so dull, they cannot understand. Mūrkhāṇām upadeṣo hi prako... If first-class rascal is advised, he thinks otherwise, that "He is bothering me." So what can be done? We have taken this daṇḍa, we have accepted service of Kṛṣṇa, and if He has ordered that "You preach this philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā. You'll become My very dearest servant," He'll show them. Na ca tasmād manuṣyeṣu kaścit. So we want to be very faithful to our master, so you may come against us. We don't mind. Jesus Christ was crucified. He didn't mind. So if you are unnecessarily prosecuting us, we don't mind. We must go on with our duty. We cannot give it up. That's all. It is not possible. What to..., you are prosecuting? If you kill us, we shall not. We have taken this daṇḍa. This is our determination. You cannot stop us. That's it.
Prabhupāda: By this agitation our position will be improved. Prahlāda Mahārāja was suppressed in so many means. What was loss on his part? He improved more and more, more and more. If Christ were not crucified, then his cult would not have spread so much all over the world. The Christian cult was spread all over the world after demise of Christ, not during his time. Is it not?
| Page Title: | Crucifixion (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, MadhuGopaldas |
| Created: | 24 of Nov, 2008 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=34, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 34 |