Prabhupāda: Nobody likes old age, nobody likes death, nobody likes to die, nobody likes to take birth again, enter into the womb of mother and live there ten months. You are tight packed. Nobody likes. But what is the solution? Is there any solution by the scientist? No scientist can say, "Well, all right, we shall stop death. We shall stop disease." They can manufacture nice medicine to counteract disease, but they cannot manufacture anything which will stop disease. You can fight against death very nicely, but you cannot stop death. These are the problems.
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Just like if you want to ignite a fire then the more the dry wood is, you get good fire. If you get wet wood, the fire is very difficult to burn. Therefore we should keep ourself dry from being wet by the association of nondevotees. That is also another process. You see. If you come to our class and go to some other class, some nightclub class, then it is counteracted immediately. You see. So you have to, if you want to ignite fire you must protect it from water.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah. They have no explanation how the mist is formed. They call...
Prabhupāda: That you can do. That is, I can do also. It is not very great credit. But if you know how it is formed, then counteract it.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We know how it is formed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So you know, then you discover, counteracting. Just like formerly, in the warfare the atomic brahmāstra was thrown. On the other side... brahmāstra means excessive heat. So they caused something, they transformed into water. Because after heat, there must be water. So where is that science?
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Water can be counteracted by fire or air. Everyone knows it. So you do it, suspension. So this is for you mystic power. You can talk all nonsense, but you cannot act against it. Therefore it is mystic power. So similarly, there are so many things. That is acintya-śakti. You cannot think of even. By nature's way, immediately the sun rises—no more mist. All finished. A little temperature increase of the sun, all finished. Nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ. This example is given in the Bhāgavata. Nīhāra, this is called nīhāra. Just like nīhāra is immediately dissipated by bhāskara, by the sun, similarly, if one can awaken his dormant devotion, then all finished, all his reaction of sinful activities, finished. Nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ. You just create... You calculate sun is composition of this chemical, that chemical. Just create one sun and throw it. Simply theoretical future, bluff and juggling of words, that's not good.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) chanting... Hare Kṛṣṇa nāma... Bhavauṣadhi... Bhavauṣadhi, medicine of all material diseases. This distressed condition of material world is a diseased condition, and this is the remedy. (Hindi for a few sentences)
Guest (7): To eradicate disease, it needs counteraction. the... I...
Prabhupāda: Eh? This is recited from the śāstra, bhavauṣadhi. This is the only disease, uh, only remedy.
Prabhupāda: By bhakti. Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājam (Bs. 5.54). That is stated in the śāstras. The karma can be counteracted only by bhakti-bhājam, devotional service. Otherwise it is not. Therefore our duty is only to endeavor for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not to bother with other things, economic development. Because they are under the karma laws. So whatever happiness and distress under karma I am destined to suffer or enjoy, that will come automatically. So you haven't got to try for it. But if you, if we do not try for development of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then we are wasting time. So far our other things are concerned, that will come and go according to karma.
Śyāmasundara: So she needs to get some political benefit from associating with Hindus during some functions just now.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That will counteract.
Śyāmasundara: "And also he needs that association with India leaders. Because America is..."
Prabhupāda: Yes. If she comes, then we shall have to give a nice speech so that she may be convinced.
Prajāpati: Actually, it's very good for them to be killed by a devotee.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like a murderer is to be killed. Then his sins out of this murdering will be counteracted. If he lives, then he has to suffer so many tribulations. Better let him be killed. Then everything's finished. Life for life. And if there are good leaders, then they will see that the cheating scientists, they're spoiling state money. They'll be stopped in their nefarious activities. They could not become successful in the moon expedition. Now they have made another plan.
Prajāpati: ...Śrīla Prabhupāda, the theologians call contrition. Means an actual thinking about how sinful we are, actually meditating on our sinful condition.
Prabhupāda: Yes, simply meditating on sinful condition, that is also good. But what is the counteraction? That we must know. Just like one man is suffering from some disease. He knows that "I have infected this disease." So simply thinking, "Oh, I have been infected by this disease," that is not good. He must go to a physician to cure it. That is intelligence.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are against religion. But actually, if we show that we are producing, we are managing, we are educating, then we can counteract the communist tendency. But they are seeing that, that escaping. They say, "They escape responsibility of worldly life and they're indulging in some religious..." That is the tendency. All... Everywhere the government is complaining like that. Therefore they do not want to increase the number of temples, increase the number of devotees. They do not want. Because they say, "These are a class of idle men. They cannot do anything, and they take to this religious life." That is the tendency. They are feeling like that. But if you show that you are actually doing something ideal, then they will appreciate.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) What these communists can do? We can do better than them. We can kill many communists like that. (laughter) Then it will be counteraction of communist movement. And you think like that. "Why you are sitting idly, no employment? Come on to the field! Take this plow! Take this bull. Go on working. Why you are sitting idly?" This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Nobody should be allowed to sit down and sleep. They must find out some employment, either work as brāhmaṇa or as a kṣatriya or as a vaiśya. Why there should be unemployment? The same example. Just like I am, this body is working. The leg is working, hand is working, brain is working, belly is working. Why there should be unemployment? You just stop this unemployment, you will see the whole world is peaceful. There is no complaint. And they'll very happily chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hm? Nobody's working in this field. They're all drawn to the cities to work in the factory. Condemned civilization.
Prabhupāda: But because they have surrendered, all sinful activities is counteracted. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). Anyone surrenders sincerely to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, immediately he becomes free from all reaction of sinful life. Because he is saved. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ: "Don't worry." This is the process. So however one might have done or executed so many sinful activities, if he fully surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, then everything is counteracted immediately.
Prabhupāda: That is the greatest sin, on the strength of Kṛṣṇa's mercy, to go on repeating sinful activities. That is greatest sin. Kṛṣṇa can excuse you-ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣa..., mā śucaḥ—but you don't make it business, that "I commit all sinful activities and surrender to Kṛṣṇa to counteract." No, this is not good. This will not be allowed. (break) ...but you cannot cheat him. Then you'll suffer.
Prabhupāda: Whole attempt is to be out of miserable condition. Just like medicine. What is the medicine? Medicine means an attempt to get out of the miserable condition of disease. But you cannot stop disease. You may discover very improved method of medical treatment, but you cannot stop disease. That is not possible. You can, I mean to say, discover many means to stop death—that is going on—but you cannot stop death. That is not possible. So in this way... And the Bhagavad-gītā says that you might be very advanced in civilization and scientific knowledge to make improvement, the condition of life, but you cannot make solution of these things, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). Birth, death, old age and disease, you cannot counteract these things.
Prabhupāda: Yes the whole basic principle I have already explained. Because they are animals, so sometimes ferocious animal. That's all. Animal, there are different types of animals. Tigers and lions, they are ferocious animal. But you live in the animal society. So animal society, some, another animal comes as very ferocious, that is not very astonishing. After all, you are living in animal society. So you become human being, ideal. This is the only solution. We have already declared, this is animal society. If some ferocious animal comes out, so where is the astonishment? After all, it is animal society. Either a tiger comes or elephant comes, they are all animals. That's all. But you don't become animal. Counteract. That is required. Then after... A human being is called rational animal. If you come to the rationality, that is required. If you remain also another animal, another type of animal, that will not help you. You have to become actually human being. But durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam.
Prabhupāda: The only difference is that human being, by nature's gift, he got better senses. So... And he has no power, or there is no education to utilize the better senses, how to advance spiritually and get out of this material world. That he has no sense. He is simply using that better intelligence for animalism. This is the meaning. He has no education how to utilize the better intelligence. Therefore he is utilizing only in animalism. And people all over the world, when they see the westerners, "They are advanced." What is that? Advancing in animalism. Basic principle remains the animalism. They become surprised. They also imitate. So they are expanding animalism, animal civilization. Now we have to counteract for the benefit of the human civilization.
Prabhupāda: What meditation? The thing is that here it is stated, "Unless one is free from all sinful activities, he cannot be engaged in My service." And the pillars, according to Vedic, pillars of sinful activities... Just like four pillars. One is this meat-eating, the other is illicit sex, the other is gambling, and the other is intoxication. So unless we break these four pillars of sinful life there is no meaning of meditation or worshiping God. You cannot ignite fire, at the same time pour water on it. So sinful life means destruction of spiritual life. So once you begin spiritual life, and other way you begin sinful life, then how it will be? It is counteracted. There is no progress.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because Kṛṣṇa is immediately pleased. "Oh, he's obedient and respectful to My devotee." It is in the same way, "Oh, he loves my child so much. He loves my dog." Dog is not qualified. But because the gentleman's dog is loved, the gentleman is pleased. This is counteractive. Similarly, a pure devotee, representative of God, if he is offered respect, that respect goes to God.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just to... Because there are other powers, so they are envious that "Why these rascals, they occupy India?" So, so just to support this occupation, I mean to say, yes, occupation, and..., they made so many propaganda. Even during Gandhi's movement, they engaged one American woman to write a book "Mother India." "Mother India." "Mother India." So the... In... That "Mother India" is simply full of stories where there are so defects. Suppose a priest in the temple is attached with some woman, like that, so many stories like... So one Punjabi, what is his name? Gobha, (?) Gobha. He counteracted that book—"Uncle Sam." (laughter) So these things are going on.
Prabhupāda: Because you have, you are not yet perfect. That means. You are not yet perfect. You are trying to be perfect. Now be perfect.
Madhudviṣa: Is there a way, is there a specific way to counteract this bad quality of enviousness?
Prabhupāda: And yes, just chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Cleanse your mind. All dirty things will go. Because you neglect to chant regularly, therefore the dirty things remain.
Prabhupāda: Hobby. That they can understand. So on account of this political situation, the government is not very favorable to our movement. But we have to counteract it by our behavior, by our propaganda. It is not difficult if you do it very nicely. We opened this college program, that foreigners should come here, then it will be solved. If it is recognized by the university and you come, you people come as students, then the whole situation will be solved.
Brahmānanda: So as a result of the vaccine they created a worse type of influenza, and they have nothing to counteract that worse type. So now they have to invent another type.
Prabhupāda: These rascals give trouble to the people, especially in India. They are not after the vaccine. They will catch people and force them. Just see. This is going on. (indistinct) ...others are avoiding, they are going, going this way, that way. Sometimes they fall, they do not know, and capture (indistinct) These rascals are creating havoc. Only to kick them on their face with shoes. That's all. The so-called scientists and biologists and... They do not know anything.
Prabhupāda: This is the philosophy of drugs. He was meant for becoming satisfied by taking this knowledge. He does not get the chance. Nobody leads him to this knowledge. He remains like cats and dogs, but as a human being if he lives like cats and dogs, he'll never be happy. Because there is no happiness, therefore he takes drugs, to forget. This is the drug philosophy. Drug philosophy means to forget one's present suffering. He must suffer, because his consciousness is developed. He must take this Vedic knowledge, but he does not take. Therefore he is dissatisfied, and to counteract the dissatisfaction he takes drugs. This is drug philosophy.
Prabhupāda: They cannot counteract. The counteraction is here in our society. They should accept it. Then it will be all right. So become first-class man. Everyone will hear you. And you can face any so-called first-class man and talk with him straightforward that "You are fourth class."
Prabhupāda: So this education is required. America is resourceful and they are intelligent. And the movement is already there, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, people are appreciating gradually. So if we get little cooperation from the authorities, we can push on this movement more solidly. So you are the chief of this city. If you give us some facility, then we can be useful to counteract this position.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes we have heard that ekādaśī is a inauspicious alignment of the planets and therefore one has to counteract this inauspiciousness by more chanting.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, no. It is the most auspicious. And chanting is more effective. (break) Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I remember you were instructing once that all of your initiated disciples should chant twenty-five rounds...
Brahmānanda: Actually, they are just feeling frustrated because it is a fact that woman has been exploited by the men. So now they want to counteract this.
Prabhupāda: No, we don't say that woman should be exploited by men. We say the man should be responsible and give protection to woman.
Prabhupāda: Daiv hy eṣ guṇamay mama māy duratyayā. One sane man should consider that "Why I am strictly under the laws of nature? I am prime..." This question was put by Sanātana Gosvāmī, that "I am prime minister. People adore me as paṇḍita, very learned, but why I am put into these tribulations of the laws of nature? Why as prime minister and learned paṇḍita I cannot counteract it?" This is real question. Simply doggish mentality: "Yes, why shall I not do it? Why shall I?"—what will benefit you? That means you are not even sober. You are not human being. Human being should question "Why?" That is human being. Now by nature's law the river is full with water. If the nature does not supply, what you can do, your so-called science? Can you fill up with water? Then what is your science? Bogus. You cannot counteract the laws of nature.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Go on pleasure. Who checks you? Enjoy this pleasure. If everything is pleasure, then why you take the counteractive process? Why do you want to kill child? Pleasure? Why do you take contraceptive method if it is pleasure? That is the proof how much rascal they are. Mūḍha nābhijānāti. Try to understand why Kṛṣṇa has spoken so many times, "mūḍhas, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā." Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, is speaking like that. There must be some meaning. Human civilization means to give relief to the human being, comfortable life, not to repeat the same business like the animals. That is human civilization.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. So you can invent so many means of curing the danger. But as soon as the sun is there, immediately all mist is over. Similarly, we have invented so many medicines and counteractions for so many things. But if one becomes a devotee, all these troubles immediately.... That is the only one medicine. He has no more any inclination. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: (CC Madhya 22.42) "No more I want." And that is wanted. (break) ...asmi varaṁ na yāce. One should be fully satisfied: "No more I want this material disease. That's all. Enough of it." That mentality required: "I don't want anything material facility." Sannyāsa means that, that "I shall live with the minimum necessities of life and simply devote..." That is sannyāsa. "I shall become a sannyāsī and enjoy all material facilities"—that is not sannyāsa. (break) ...recommended that "If there is no need, don't take even cloth. Remain naked." That is sannyāsa.
Prabhupāda: Nobody wants that "There may be fire in my house," but there is fire. Therefore you have to arrange for fire brigade. You are expecting always some danger. Therefore you make so many precautions, because you know that although you do not want mishappening, it will come. Nobody endeavors for mishappenings, but you know there is some superior force who'll enforce mishappening. And they are unable to counteract. Just like a scientist knows that he'll die, but he's so expert scientist that he cannot counteract. He knows that he'll die. He's talking all nonsense while living, but he does not make any arrangement that he'll not die. That he is unable. They are making arrangement, going to the Mars planet at the expense of taxpayer, so if we request these rascal scientists that "You discover something so that we will not die. Take any amount of money," will they able?
Prabhupāda: We are pushing this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is being appreciated. It will take some time. Because so much mischievous activities have been done by the Māyāvādīs, to counteract, it will take some time. They are simply mischievous. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has rejected them. Māyāvādī bhāṣya sunile haya sarva-nāśa (CC Madhya 6.169). If one takes the Māyāvādī version of the śāstras, then his spiritual life is finished. He becomes atheist. His spiritual life is finished. Now what is the contribution? You talked about Vivekananda, what is his contribution?
Prabhupāda: Nothing. Simply he has taught the sannyāsīs to eat meat. That is his contribution. He says there is no harm eating meat. This is going on. Nārāyaṇa has become daridra. Daridra-nārāyaṇa, these are Vivekananda's contribution. And spoiled India's spiritual tradition. He has created one illiterate priest as God. That is his contribution, if we become honest to understand. So it will take some time to counteract all these mischievous activity. Simply mischievous.
Prabhupāda: This is stated by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. etadṛśi tava kṛpā bhagavān mamāpi. "Bhagavān, my Lord, You are so merciful, I can be direct connection with You simply by chanting Your holy name. You have given this facility in this age, and still I am so unfortunate I am not inclined." Tam abhyarcya. We are not inclined to worship. That is the defect. When there is question of worshiping Him, so many things we bring in, not to worship Him, just to counteract the proposal. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. So we bring all kinds of argument how to not to become a bhakta. That is our misfortune. He says "You become My devotee." We are putting arguments, how not to become His devotee. That is our misfortune. We bring all arguments. This is misfortune.
Prabhupāda: I cannot. First of all, we do not bother for all these things.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they are going to bring up these points, and the guru should say something. But we must know somehow how to counteract them. One point is that the...
Prabhupāda: It can be explained, that when there is devastation...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: ...the rock...
Devotee: Turn over.
Prabhupāda: ...roll, it was like that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Catastrophism.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then the whole thing would be filled up with water. So water course is very heavy. So it can turn even big, big rocks, mountains rolling.
Prabhupāda: That is the distinction between animal and human life. If there is fire, and there are animals only, dogs and cats, they cannot call fire brigade. They'll die, because they do not know how to take measures. But human being immediately calls fire brigade just to try to save himself. But the suffering is there, either he's animal or human being. But the distinction is the human being tries to counteract it, the animal cannot. If you simply become subject to this suffering without any remedial measure, then you are animal. And you are suffering and you try for the remedial measure, that is human life. This is plain thing. You cannot say there is no suffering. Suffering is there both for the animal and for the man. The man tries for the remedial measure, the animal cannot.
Prabhupāda: No but dream is... It may be, but when there is fire, you call it dream, but why do you call fire brigade? When you are diseased why you go to physician? Dream it. (laughter) The major problem is birth, death, and old age, and disease. You do not want that. You must seek the measures. That is human life. Whether birth, death, old age, disease can be stopped? If there is any such life that there is no more birth, death, that is human life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is the Vedānta philosophy: "Now the human life is meant for enquiring about these things." If you don't enquire, then you remain animal. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to save the human society from this animal life. To bring him to the real human life. Animal life means there is suffering—go on suffering. Human life means there is suffering—how to get, how to counteract. That is human life. Suffering—so long you have got this body, there must be suffering.
Prabhupāda: They are trying to drive us away. How to counteract it?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we have to do some positive, very subtle positive preaching. I suggested that—if you recall—I suggested that a cultural center should be opened there on the basis of showing dolls, showing movies, restaurant,
Prabhupāda: "That also distribute for me. More share for me." (laughs) Now there is drought; there is no rain. What the capitalists or communists can do in this connection? If they are able to present any program how to counteract? Then where is your progress? When there is some calamity, you both of you simply (indistinct). That's all. You cannot do anything. Then where is your progress?
Prabhupāda: Just like we are trying to avoid some miserable condition, very insignificant—to get out of the disturbance created by the mosquitoes and the flies. We are trying our best, but still they are disturbing. Is it not? Still they find out some loopholes and go in to the room and disturb you. So you cannot avoid. Similarly, the disturbances of nature: the severe cold, scorching heat, how you can counteract it? Is it possible? Not possible. Adhyātmic, you may keep your body quite fit to your best knowledge, bit still there will be some trouble, sometimes coughing, sometimes mental equilibrium is lost, you don't feel nice. So these things will go on. Because we have got this material body, the material conditions must work. You cannot make any adjustments. That's not possible.
Nava-yauvana: We have experience sometimes the heater breaks and there's even more anxiety.
Hari-śauri: Then there's always a coal fire as well.
Prabhupāda: Such kind of argument can be counteracted by so many other argument.
Harikeśa: We just see practically that we're enjoying life. We can't...
Prabhupāda: Enjoy life means... Even the industrialists, they go to the remote village and have a peaceful house there. That is the anxiety, how I shall live peacefully. The poorer class, the workers, they live in the city, and the capitalist, he goes to a different place.
Prabhupāda: Delay? But that's a fact. Unless government gives us land... (break) ...but we... We are not Kṛṣṇa. But if we remain Kṛṣṇa conscious Vaiṣṇavas, then our position is strong, If there is slackness, then they will come to kill us. That we have to see. Āpani ācari' prabhu jīve śikhāilā. Our behavior should be very clear. "Caesar's wife must be above suspicion." Then it will be... This Aghāsura, Bakāsura, will come and... In the beginning there was Aghāsura, Pūtanā. That Devānanda, "Hare Kṛṣṇa Film," he wanted to do some harm. And he is gone, finished. Nobody talks of Devānanda. They talk of our movement. So if you remain strong in your spiritual activities, these Aghāsura, Bakāsura will come, go. But we should take precaution and counteract to reduce them. Real strength will remain from Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma's strength. Balarāma. Balarāma means strength. Nāyam ātmā bala hīna na labhyaḥ.(?) If you are not supported by Balarāma, then it is not possible. So we have got our Balarāma, Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma temple. Now in Europe we have got Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma.
Prabhupāda: Kleśa. Material body means kleśa, suffering. Why you are using this fan? Because without fan the body will be in pain, painful condition. So we are adjusting, trying to counteract. But the position is miserable. Therefore whole plan of Vedic civilization—how to avoid this material body. That is called mokṣa. That is the plan. So Ṛṣabhadeva is advising that nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). People have become mad, and they're doing everything which is not sanctioned by the śāstra. Pramatta. Pramatta means mad. And why they have become mad? Indriya-prītaye, for sense gratification. There is no big hope. It is simply sense gratification. Sense gratification is there even in the animal life. So human life is not meant for sense gratification. That is also said in the śāstra.
Girirāja: They were very agitated that so many big ministers and people came to our function in Hyderabad.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice.
Girirāja: Actually, it's like a backhanded compliment. Whatever they wrote was very favorable.
Prabhupāda: That is counteraction.
Girirāja: Yes. Actually it was good publicity. The headline was that the Andhra government is falling for our tricks. But all the subject was very good.
Prabhupāda: We got very good coverage in Hyderabad by all the papers.
Prabhupāda: The animals cannot make sinful activities more than what is destined by him. But their sinful activity is not taken into account. For this man who is offered this monkey's body, he suffers the inconvenience of monkey life. So his sinful activities are counteracted, and because he came to Vṛndāvana and lived in Vṛndāvana by the mercy of Rādhārāṇī, next life he will be... That is the glory of Vṛndāvana-dhāma. Otherwise what is the explanation of these dogs and hogs and monkeys in Vṛndāvana? If it is dhāma-aparādha, committing offense in dhāma. Dhāma-aparādha. As dhāma-bhajana, if one undergoes devotional service out of Vṛndāvana and one executes devotional service in Vṛndāvana, that is hundred times better. Similarly dhāma-aparādha also. This aparādha, when offense is committed outside Vṛndāvana, that is not so grievous as committing offense in Vṛndāvana. Dhāma-aparādha.
Harikeśa: The dogs and monkeys, they feel grateful?
Prabhupāda: Yes, when they come to sense they feel grateful. As dogs they cannot. As dog or monkey they cannot enhance their sinful activities. It is stopped. And whatever they do, that is not taken into account. And to suffer as dog or monkey means counteracting all previous sins. One punishment finished. Then he's fully liberated.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We live on the mercy and the guidance of the guru every moment.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is para-upakāra. People are in so darkness. So give them some knowledge as far as possible. This is real para-upakāra, doing welfare, to give Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He is scientist. He is trying to give among the scientists because his jugglery of words will counteract their jugglery of words. But our aim is very nice, that the rascal may be educated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So you are expecting some success?
Prabhupāda: This is another sinful thought—Jesus has taken contract for ridding your sinful activities. That's a plea, what is called plea for the sinners, that they will continue acting sinfully, and Christ will take contract to counteract. This is most sinful conviction. Instead of stopping sinful activities, we have given contract to Jesus Christ to counteract it.
Ram Jethmalani: Yes, but now everything has become Westernized. We have dessert.
Prabhupāda: In northern India first of all they give sweets. So they eat sweet to the heart's content. Then to counteract the sweetness...
Ram Jethmalani: The best way to destroy your appetite is to eat sweet first.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Pilgrims. Pilgrims. Villagers who come. They circumambulate.
Prabhupāda: Our men should not talk with them. That's all right. And then what does he say further?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then he says, "By September, Śani (Saturn) will enter the eighth house, and it could create further health troubles." September to October does not...
Prabhupāda: But this will not counteract?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, well... See, what I read you was on page six. Now I'm going back to page five. In other words, after saying all of these things about the difficulties, then he said, "Now get a blue sapphire, and that shall counteract what I've already told you before." But you asked me after, so all I can tell you after is what it says here. It doesn't say what will happen after if you wear your blue sapphire. It only says what would happen ordinarily.
Prabhupāda: No. All of them can cooperate. Anyway, call him.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right. What does the kavirāja say about your chances, Śrīla Prabhupāda? What does he say about your chances of surviving? (Prabhupāda coughs) How can you drink milk when the cough is like this? I cannot understand how they can recommend milk.
Prabhupāda: No, that counteracts any...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ādā?
Prabhupāda: He is giving medicine for that.