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Concluded that... (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Hayagrīva: Or are they older brāhmaṇas?

Prabhupāda: Older, only these...

Hayagrīva: Only the three, yes.

Prabhupāda: Haridāsa, Śrīnivāsa, and Advaita. They were taking part. Otherwise, all, they were young friends, yes. Young boys. No girls. That is not the system in India. (laughs) Yes. Now when the second scene, mainly their movement was going on and it was becoming popular. Now Caitanya Mahāprabhu preached that simply by the saṅkīrtana movement everything will be fulfilled. You need not do anything. So the priest class brāhmaṇas they became very much dissatisfied that "He is inviting Muhammadans and all others..." Because according to Hindu society, except the brāhmaṇas... Especially in those days, only the brāhmaṇas were considered the highest in the society, and even the kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, they all calculated to, in the group of śūdras. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was allowing everyone, the Muhammadans, the śūdras, the low class, the high class, the brāhmaṇas... He was amalgamating everyone. So these brāhmaṇas, they took objection. "He is making a disastrous movement! The prestige of the brāhmaṇas will go." So they became very much dissatisfied and they concluded that "We shall go to the magistrate and file our complaint that He is doing against Hindu religion and He's crying always 'Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa' loudly. The Lord is sleeping. He will be disturbed and there will be disaster, Lord being angry." In this way they filed complaint. Ask anything, questions.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation Before Lecture -- April 29, 1969, Brandeis University, Boston:

Miss Rose: But I mean so that people can read it. So they'll understand it's not hippies.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You go to responsible men and see, that "This is a nice movement. Why don't you patronize it to save your country's from the hippies' falling down, confusion?" We are saving. Practically this society is giving the best service to your country. They should appreciate, but they should not misunderstand us. How we can be hippies? We completely... That is also said. How foolish man he is, that, er... In that article, Satsvarūpa, in that article, it is clearly stated that we are refusing all these things. How they conclude that we are hippies?

Satsvarūpa: It wasn't a bad article.

Prabhupāda: Oh! What a nonsense he is!

Candanācārya: He is worried that hippies come to the ceremonies to see us.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Just like Kṛṣṇa. We accept Kṛṣṇa the supreme authority. Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. Who is accepting this? We have accepted. Some others may have accepted but you have not accepted. So therefore even Kṛṣṇa's injunction is not accepted by everyone, what to speak of others? So therefore you cannot find out within this material world anything which can satisfy everyone. That is not possible.

Guest (1): We have not found that.

Prabhupāda: You may think, but we have concluded that there is nothing, such thing, which can satisfy everyone. It is not possible.

Guest (1): Until we hear all, we may do that...

Prabhupāda: That may be an ideal, but we take Kṛṣṇa as the highest authority. Even Kṛṣṇa's words are not accepted. That's a fact. Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender unto Me." So a few persons might have surrendered to Him. Even Kṛṣṇa was present, only the Pāṇḍavas and the inhabitants of the Vṛndāvana and Dvārakā, some of them understood that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. But many did not accept Him. Many insulted Him. Just like Śiśupāla insulted Him. So even Kṛṣṇa could not be accepted.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Mensa Member: I agree entirely, Zen immediately comes to mind where the problem's recognized, immediately acted on and it's admitted that there's a deep possibility of transmission... (indistinct)

Dr. Weir: This is where you can't get a feeling across by writing a textbook on it. I think...

Prabhupāda: No. One thing is that somebody's concluding that to solve this problem, birth, death, old age, disease, is impossibility. That is one school. Another school (indistinct) that there is possibility of control over the birth, death, old age and disease. So why not this school, who does not say that is impossible. No, there is possible. Just like we follow Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says that tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaun... (BG 4.9). that "Anyone who understands Me, follows Me, he, after quitting this body, no more accept this material body but comes to Me." Now, so long I accept this material body these problems are there, birth, death, old age and disease. Then if I don't accept this material body then these problems are solved immediately.

Room Conversation -- December 11, 1971, New Delhi:

Devotee (2): Perfect knowledge cannot be received with imperfect senses. Only through perfect senses can perfect knowledge be received.

Prabhupāda: Therefore it should be concluded that the so-called scientists, astronomers, they are all imperfect, and they are passing off the scientists as learned. So you can challenge them, "What is the guarantee that your knowledge is perfect?" Actually it is not. They do not know how the stars are moving. They are always imperfect. Simply putting some theories. They say all this, Darwin's theory and this theory, that theory. They are simply speculating on imperfect senses, and therefore they're cheating, because the conditioned soul has got a tendency to cheat others. If one can cheat others, he thinks himself as very intelligent. The conditioned souls, they commit mistake, they are illusioned, they cheat, and their senses are imperfect. This is the, the four condition. Therefore, if we receive knowledge from the conditioned soul, there is no possibility of getting perfect knowledge. If by nature you are cheater, then how I can expect fair dealings? It is to be understood that we cannot have any fair dealings with this conditioned soul. And he'll protest.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Dai Nippon -- April 22, 1972, Tokyo:

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice. So Veda, Veda means knowledge. So every human being should be interested for advancement of knowledge. So our movement is not a religious movement. It is a movement for advancement of knowledge. And this knowledge, God consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is especially meant for this human body. Because knowledge cannot be given to animals. I cannot speak to the other animals about knowledge because they are imperfect. Their body is imperfect. They are not suitable for receiving knowledge. Only elementary knowledge for maintaining this body, they have got: where to secure food, where to sleep, how to have sexual intercourse, and how to defend. These knowledges are there in animals also. So human being requires further knowledge. That is special prerogative, gift by God, by nature. Whatever you say. So we should utilize this human body for furtherance of knowledge. And the first important knowledge is that we should know that there is life after death. That is the basic principle of knowledge. Unfortunately at the present moment, in no university there is any department of knowledge where this education is given where there is life after death. I am traveling all over the world. There is no such department. They have completely evaded or set aside because they cannot make any solution whether there is... I talked with one Mr. Kotovsky, a Russian professor in Moscow. I was in Moscow. He said, "Swamiji, there is no life after death." Just see. He's a big professor and his knowledge is so imperfect that he says that there is no life after death. So that is the position everywhere. Those who are teachers, they are with imperfect knowledge. The teachers in the universities, they are with imperfect knowledge. Now, life after death, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is very easily explained that just like a child has next life, boyhood. The boy has next life as youthhood. The youthhood has next life, the old age. So why not the old age next life? If we are passing through so many stages of life from birth or from the womb of the mother, then what is the reason that one does not believe there is no life after death? Can you say, any one of you? What is the reason? You remember your boyhood body; I remember my youthhood body. So that body is no longer existing, but I am existing. I remember my childhood body. My babyhood body also, I remember, particularly. When I was about six months old, I still remember very vividly, I was lying down on the lap of my eldest sister, and she was knitting. I remember still. Yes, six months. I remember when I was only about one year old, there was a great saṅkīrtana in our house and I also joined the dancing party. And I was seeing up to their knees, very small. So I remember those days. And then after that, I was a boy. I was very much fond of cycling. So many things. Yes. So many dangers, so many adventures. Now I am old man. So all those different stages of body, I remember. But these bodies are not existing. So similarly, I remember or forget, but I was in different types of body—that's a fact. So similarly, after leaving this body, I will have another body. That is natural conclusion. What is the difficulty? Why I shall conclude that after end of this body? (end)

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: A small sample of God. Just like you take a drop of ocean water and you taste it, then you can understand immediately the whole ocean is salty. Similarly, if you analyze your characteristic, then the same characteristic is there in God. Just like you want to love someone. Everyone wants to love someone. Therefore it can be concluded that God has got the propensity to love.

Mrs. Keating: Yes. God is love.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But if God is love...

Mrs. Keating: Spirit?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa means love, so when you want to love somebody and somebody wants to love you, the both of us must be a person.

Mrs. Keating: Both must be...?

Prabhupāda: Person. You don't love the air. You love your husband. He is a person. And he loves you, you are a person. Therefore God must be person. This conclusion. Because I am person, I am a sample of God, so God must be person. What do you think? Without God being person, how we can reciprocate love?

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: They do not know how that life energy comes or goes.

Prabhupāda: No. Life energy comes or... There is no question of coming and going.

Karandhara: Well coming into a body and leaving a body.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That means that is individual. That individual person is missing. He has left it.

Karandhara: Generally they conclude that it's an electro-chemical energy in the heart and that...

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be. That individual person has left. Other things are intact. Otherwise, how the living entities are coming out?

Karandhara: They don't think that if it's simply a chemical, why cannot they just get a chemical that's a person.

Prabhupāda: No. We refute that. The chemicals are already there. Otherwise how living entities are coming out? We don't say that chemical is missing. Because the same theory: conservation of energy. The chemicals, the energy-producing, that is already there. It may be in different form, but the life-producing-energy is there. Otherwise how the other living entities are coming out?

Karandhara: In a living, in a living entity in the living body, there are so many things, personality...

Prabhupāda: They have got personality, all the living entities coming out, the microbes. They have got their personality. If they're moving in this way, you stop. They'll move in this way.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they're concluding, the scientists, that without having the real knowledge of their investigation. Because they are concluding that life started from matter, but there's no proof.

Prabhupāda: No proof. How they can say so? (pause) If they accept that life started from life, then they'll have to accept God, the Supreme Person. Just like by practical experience we see one life is produced by another life. The father, mother begets a child. Not that a child drops from the sky. Their test tube experiment also depends on the father and mother. So what is that? Where is the proof? In the test tube you mix some chemical and produce a child. Then your theory is all right. You cannot create even an ant, even a fly. And still you are claiming that you can manufacture human being?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What they'll say manufacture means they will take a seed, that... But

Prabhupāda: But that means that is not... Originally, it is from life. Seed is from the life. So where is your proof that matter produces life? Then you have to accept: life produces life. According to our śāstra, within the semina of the father, the living body, living entity, takes shelter. And it is injected to the mother's womb and the two matters mixes and the body forms. This is our śāstric explanation. Not that the semina discharged by the father, that is life. No. Within that semina, the living entity takes shelter. And it is put into favorable condition. Then it develops the body. This is... We, we find in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That putting of the living entity in a particular type of semina depends on higher authorities. The higher authorities will judge what kind of body this living entity, after leaving this body, will get. So by higher authority it will be directed to enter into the semina of such father, and it will be injected into the womb of the mother. Then you'll get, develop a particular type of body and come out and suffer or enjoy. This is the process.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Śyāmasundara: I think Mr. Toynbee... I saw on television, I saw you once on a television program in New York.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes.

Śyāmasundara: And you concluded that if men came out of this age who had developed a spirit of renunciation, true renunciation from material pursuit, that this would enable the world to rectify its present precarious position.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes, yes. Yes.

Śyāmasundara: So... Yes.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Do you see any signs of change in the western world or not?

Prabhupāda: Well, change can take place any moment, provided they will take this movement little seriously. Change for good.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Change for good. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And your article showed that you are also for change for good.

Morning Walk -- December 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: With this background before, then that is why they start saying that before Darwin's theory there should be one. That is called chemical evolution. That is called pre-biotic-chemistry. Means before biological evolution started there should be chemical evolution.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that chemical evolution is part of life demonstration. That I have already explained. Just like the chemical, citric acid, coming from lemon tree, a life. It is coming. So all chemicals are being produced... Just like in your body, in my body, there are so many chemicals. Because the body is there, the chemicals are coming. In my urine you will find so much, so many chemicals. In my stool you will find so many chemicals. Wherefrom the chemicals coming? Daily, enzymes, so many other chemicals are coming. Simply the medical man analyzes the urine, and so many chemicals are there. Wherefrom it came? Because I am living entity, the chemicals are coming in my urine, in my stool, in my cough, in my secretion. It is coming. Therefore it is concluded that chemicals are produced by life, not life is produced by chemicals.

Morning Walk -- December 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (laughing) It is not like that, but we can say, wherever Kṛṣṇa topics are there, it is as good as Vaikuṇṭha or Vṛndāvana. (break) ...prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ. By association, bodhayantaḥ parasparam. These things are there in the Bhagavad-gītā. (break) ...enjoy and be satisfied in the association of devotees. (break) ...article on the subject of "Kṛṣṇa, the supreme scientist," and let us publish it. That article is very nice. If he writes such articles, the conclusion, if Kṛṣṇa, the supreme scientist, Kṛṣṇa, the supreme economist, Kṛṣṇa, the supreme philosopher, Kṛṣṇa, the supreme chemist, Kṛṣṇa—everything, the conclusion is Supreme, Kṛṣṇa—then his activity is fulfilled. He becomes successful. The conclusion should be Kṛṣṇa. That's it. Whatever he may be. He may be a musician, he may be artist, he may be physicist, he may be chemist, he may be scientist—whatever he may be, if he writes article on the subject matter and concludes that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme, then preach, then he is successful. That's all. Just like you are theologian. You write theology and prove, "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord." Then your attempt is successful. (break) We are trying to understand the Supreme, so therefore, as soon as you come to the Supreme, you are successful. (break) ...uttama-śloka-guṇānuvarṇanam. This is success. With your talent, you simply come to the conclusion that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. That's all. So our business is, because we are neither scientist nor musician, nothing of the sort, layman, we have simply said, "Kṛṣṇa Supreme." That's all. Never mind what I am. (break) ...janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate. This is understanding

of Supreme. "After many, many births, one who is wise, he will accept Kṛṣṇa and surrender."

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 18, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Their whole life is mistake. (laughter) They cannot do anything but mistake. Why you are so much confident about that? Their whole life is simply mistake.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, they see a little fire, and they see that it has heat and light, and so they see a huge thing having heat and light, and so they conclude that that's also a fire. So if that's their deductive method, then if they see that whenever there's intelligence, there must be a person, then why don't they conclude that behind the universe, there's so many wonderful things, that there must also be a person?

Prabhupāda: Yes, we say there are persons, combination of fiery persons. Therefore it looks so bright.

Akṣayānanda: Is the brightness of a diamond because of the presence of a jīva?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Akṣayānanda: The brightness...? No.

Prabhupāda: Suppose you get a diamond body. Just like glowworm. Glowworm, it has a glowing body. That's all. But the glowing substance is different from the soul. Owner of the body is different. What he's doing? (break) ...came other day, morning?

Guest: (indistinct) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...have purchase this land for him for preaching Christian Bible. So he, maybe he was getting some salary on this land in this way. He gave up Gauḍīya Maṭha association and he became Christian. So I know that this land belonged to him. His wife was there.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Pañcadraviḍa: But we're also teaching that this love, love is not just based on sentimentality. Love is also practical. Just like in this world, when there is relationship between man and woman, there is a practical exchange of love. It is not simply that love is only based on words. Also one is based on actions. We can judge how much a man is developing love by what his activities are.

Prabhupāda: "So what you have found in me that you have concluded that I have no love for God. What you have seen in me?"

Pañcadraviḍa: I have not concluded that... When I speak with a person, I do not say, "I have concluded that you have no love of God."

Prabhupāda: "You say. That you have charged, but on what account you say like that? What I have done?"

Nitai: Because you go to church only for one hour all week. The rest of the time is not spent in serving God.

Prabhupāda: That may be. But that does not mean that I do not love God.

Satsvarūpa: Well we don't criticize your love of God, but it can be increased. Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā always think of Him in whatever you do, during your work, during the week. We can teach you how to... You like to go to church? That shows you have some affection for God. We can teach you how, wherever you are, to think of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: This is not proper answer.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Pañcadraviḍa: ...argument being that Christ has said "Thou shalt not kill." That is one of ten commandments. Ten commandments are social codes for how the people are to live. Now, the people that are Christ's disciples, they are all fishermen. His whole community is fishermen and sheep herders. They are always... He is having fisherman community. So he did not mean for them to give up their engagement. They were all living as fishermen. He told them, "Thou shalt not kill." Therefore we can only conclude that Christ meant "Thou shalt not kill other human beings" because he was coming at a time, teaching principles how to live with each other...

Prabhupāda: No, we don't allow to comment or interpret on the words of... That we cannot allow. You cannot interpret in that way, in your own logical... That is not allowed.

Pañcadraviḍa: "But we say that when Christ said, Thou shalt not kill, and you say it refers all living beings, we say that is your interpretation because Christ is coming to teach fishermen. He never told them to give up their occupation. They continued to live as fishermen. Continued to live as sheep herders. He knew that killing was going on. Therefore his statement, 'Thou shalt not kill,' must refer to human beings because he was living in the community. He was teaching by his example."

Prabhupāda: But I can say, "Why not to the animals? You can eat fish only." Then I'll write book like that. Jesus Christ allowed the fishermen to fish, so then you can fish. Why you are killing cows? That will be my argument. If you are actually following Christ, all right, you can take fish, but why you are killing animals, and other animals? Why you are going that "Because Christ has allowed some fish killing, therefore everyone should be killed"? What is this nonsense? You follow strictly. All right, fish-killing.

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prof. Regamay: So they are... I think it's... I must say that when comparing different religions, I see that for instance, what I find here...

Prabhupāda: There is no different religion. As soon as one tries to understand different religion, it is to be concluded that he does not know what is religion. That religion cannot be different. Religion is one. God is one. And the order given by God, that is religion. But "different" means according to time and circumstances... Just like Lord Buddha, he is giving the same religion. He is God, incarnation of God. He is asking, "Just obey Me." The same philosophy is being taught by Kṛṣṇa, "Surrender unto Me." That is religion. Buddha also says "Surrender unto Me. Obey Me." So that is religion. Yes. So the religion is... One who knows God and surrenders to Him, that is religion, and anything, that is all cheating. Anything else, that is all cheating. That is not religion. This is religion. God is one, and surrender to God, that is religion. That's all. You take any religion, it doesn't matter. If one has learned what is God and how to surrender to Him, that is religion.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Guṇānuvarṇanam.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Guṇānuvarṇanam. "Translation: Learned circles have positively concluded that the infallible purpose of the advancement of knowledge, namely, austerities, study of the Vedas, sacrifice, chanting of hymns and charity, culminates in the transcendental descriptions of the Lord, who is defined in choice poetry."

Prabhupāda: So if you have got scientific knowledge, you scientifically explain that God is the original source. Then your knowledge is perfect. What is the purport?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Human intellect is developed for advancement of learning in art, science, philosophy, physics, chemistry, psychology, economics, politics, etc. By culture of such knowledge the human society can attain perfection of life. This perfection of life culminates in the realization of the Supreme Being, Viṣṇu. The śruti therefore directs that those who are actually advanced in learning should aspire for the service of Lord Viṣṇu. Unfortunately persons who are enamored by the external beauty of viṣṇu-māyā do not understand that culmination of perfection or self-realization depends on Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu-māyā means sense enjoyment, which is transient and miserable. Those who are entrapped by viṣṇu-māyā utilize advancement of knowledge for sense enjoyment. Śrī Nārada Muni has explained that all paraphernalia of the cosmic universe is but an emanation from the Lord out of His different energies because the Lord has set in motion, by His inconceivable energy, the actions and reactions of the created manifestation. They have come to be out of His energy, they rest on His energy, and after annihilation they merge into Him. Nothing is, therefore, different from Him, but at the same time the Lord is always different from them.

When advancement of knowledge is applied in the service of the Lord, the whole process becomes absolute. The Personality of Godhead and His transcendental name, fame, glory, etc., are all nondifferent from Him. Therefore, all the sages and devotees of the Lord have recommended that the subject matter of art, science, philosophy, physics, chemistry, psychology and all other branches of knowledge should be wholly and solely applied in the service of the Lord. Art, literature, poetry, painting, etc., may be used in glorifying the Lord. The fiction writers, poets and celebrated litterateurs are generally engaged in writing of sensuous subjects, but if they turn towards the service of the Lord they can describe the transcendental pastimes of the Lord. Vālmīki was a great poet, and similarly Vyāsadeva is a great writer, and both of them have absolutely engaged themselves in delineating the transcendental activities of the Lord and by doing so have become immortal. Similarly, science and philosophy also should be applied in the service of the Lord. There is no use presenting dry speculative theories for sense gratification. philosophy and science should be engaged to establish the glory of the Lord. Advanced people are eager to understand the Absolute Truth through the medium of science, and therefore a great scientist should endeavor to prove the existence of the Lord on a scientific basis. Similarly, philosophical speculations should be utilized to establish the Supreme Truth as sentient and all-powerful. Similarly, all other branches of knowledge should always be engaged in the service of the Lord. In the Bhagavad-gītā also the same is affirmed. All "knowledge" not engaged in the service of the Lord is but nescience. Real utilization of advanced knowledge is to establish the glories of the Lord, and that is the real import. Scientific knowledge engaged in the service of the Lord and all similar activities are all factually hari-kīrtana, or glorification of the Lord. Jaya, bliss. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: So? Do you agree or not? (laughter) We welcome scientific knowledge. We don't say that scientific knowledge should be stopped, but it should be utilized to glorify the Lord. Then it is perfect. Otherwise useless. Means you don't get perfection. Perfection is when you scientifically describe the existence of God and His different energies, how they are working. And that is scientist, real scientist. Otherwise, theories, you can give your theory, I'll give you a theory... Temporary. That's all. So everything is there in Bhāgavatam, all knowledge, full knowledge. Vidvān bhāgavata-vādī. So vidvān means, vidvān means one who has learned Bhāgavata, Bhāgavatam nicely. He's vidvān, factually. So you do not read all these things?

Robert Gouiran: I am sorry.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: There is nothing material before Kṛṣṇa. Because everything's coming from Kṛṣṇa. One who does not know Kṛṣṇa, it is material. One who knows Kṛṣṇa, it is spiritual. Hm.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: "O best amongst the twice-born, it is therefore concluded that the highest perfection one can achieve by discharging his prescribed duties, dharma, according to caste divisions and order of life, is to please the Lord Hari."

Prabhupāda: That's it. You may be scientist, you may be something else, but if you try to satisfy the Supreme Lord by your occupation, that is perfection. That is perfection.

Morning Walk -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Haṁsadūta: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Anybody can understand. I am coming, going, but when it is a question of vacating, I go out of the apartment, but I never come back again. I will enter another apartment. "The soul enters another body" means enters the womb of another mother. And there the suitable body is created and again mother delivers the child. Again new chapter of life begins. Where is the difficulty to understand? But they are so rascal and dull-headed, the simple thing they cannot understand. And still, they are big, big scientists, philosophers, and cheating others. They are unable to understand, themselves, and the same rascal knowledge they are distributing to others and taking Nobel Prize. This is the mūḍhas, the society of the cheaters and the cheated. Where is the difficulty to understand the simple thing, how the soul is transmigrating? They sometimes say that "We do not see how it is going." No, how...? Can you see the mind? But can you deny, "There is no mind?" Mind is there. Everyone knows I have got mind, you have got mind, but do I see your mind? Therefore I shall deny the existence of mind? Mind, intelligence and ego—these three things are there, but we cannot see. How my mind is working, can you see? Or how your mind is working, can I see? And because I cannot see, therefore shall I conclude that you have no mind, I have no mind? How foolish they are. Just see. What is their explanation, Satsvarūpa?

Satsvarūpa: I was just thinking of a different argument of theirs.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Satsvarūpa: That is that sometimes people say, "I don't mind this transmigration if I become a cat or a dog because if I forget so completely, it doesn't matter. I won't even suffer."

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Read.

Satsvarūpa: Translation: "Learned circles have positively concluded that the infallible purpose of the advancement of knowledge, namely austerities, study of the Vedas, sacrifice, chanting of hymns and charity, culminates in the transcendental descriptions of the Lord, who is defined in choice poetry."

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Satsvarūpa: Human intellect is developed for advancement of learning in art, science, philosophy, physics, chemistry, psychology, economics, politics, etc. By culture of such knowledge the human society can attain perfection of life. This perfection of life culminates in the realization of the Supreme Being, Viṣṇu. The śruti therefore directs that those who are actually advanced in learning should aspire for the service of Lord Viṣṇu. Unfortunately persons who are enamored by the external beauty of viṣṇu-māyā do not understand that culmination of perfection or self-realization depends on Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu-māyā means sense enjoyment, which is transient and miserable. Those who are entrapped by viṣṇu-māyā utilize advancement of knowledge for sense enjoyment. Śrī Nārada Muni has explained that all paraphernalia of the cosmic universe is but an emanation from the Lord out of His different energies because the Lord has set in motion, by His inconceivable energy, the actions and reactions of the created manifestation. They have come to be out of His energy, they rest on His energy, and after annihilation they merge into Him. Nothing is, therefore, different from Him, but at the same time the Lord is always different from them.

When advancement of knowledge is applied in the service of the Lord, the whole process becomes absolute. The Personality of Godhead and His transcendental name, fame, glory, etc., are all nondifferent from Him. Therefore, all the sages and devotees of the Lord have recommended that the subject matter of art, science, philosophy, physics, chemistry, psychology and all other branches of knowledge should be wholly and solely applied in the service of the Lord. Art, literature, poetry, painting, etc., may be used in glorifying the Lord. The fiction writers, poets and celebrated litterateurs are generally engaged in writing of sensuous subjects, but if they turn towards the service of the Lord they can describe the transcendental pastimes of the Lord. Vālmīki was a great poet, and similarly Vyāsadeva is a great writer, and both of them have absolutely engaged themselves in delineating the transcendental activities of the Lord and by doing so have become immortal. Similarly, science and philosophy also should be applied in the service of the Lord. There is no use presenting dry speculative theories for sense gratification. philosophy and science should be engaged to establish the glory of the Lord. Advanced people are eager to understand the Absolute Truth through the medium of science, and therefore a great scientist should endeavor to prove the existence of the Lord on a scientific basis. Similarly, philosophical speculations should be utilized to establish the Supreme Truth as sentient and all-powerful. Similarly, all other branches of knowledge should always be engaged in the service of the Lord. In the Bhagavad-gītā also the same is affirmed. All "knowledge" not engaged in the service of the Lord is but nescience. Real utilization of advanced knowledge is to establish the glories of the Lord, and that is the real import. Scientific knowledge engaged in the service of the Lord and all similar activities are all factually hari-kīrtana, or glorification of the Lord.

Prabhupāda: This is our process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, everything engaged in glorifying the Supreme Lord. So you are learned scientists. Our request is that you also, by your scientific research, glorify the Supreme. That is perfection.

Morning Walk at Marina del Rey -- July 12, 1974, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There's all forms of species developing slowly.

Bali Mardana: No. Now they have just recently found a species of man three millions years ago, and it's similar to modern man. So scientists... So now they have concluded that there are more than one species, a lower species and a higher species existing at the same time.

Prabhupāda: This Darwin is a rascal. He cannot... He has taken some idea from this Padma Purāṇa, and he has developed in a befooling way. There are different types of human beings, four hundred thousand species. (pause) (break) ...is to conquer over the stringent laws of nature. Is it not?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: No? What is the purpose of scientific research?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: To conquer over the laws of nature.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Is it not? The laws of nature is already powerful. So you have not conquered over the laws of nature. Then how science is powerful?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: You cannot conquer the laws of nature.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Science cannot conquer the laws of nature. That is why they try to think only about the body, the bodily concept. To give them comfort to the body by...

Prabhupāda: Sense gratification. That's all. Everything ending in sense gratification. That's all.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: This I want. You are nicely educated. Now by dint of your education, you prove that background is Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Then your education will be perfect. Otherwise you are one of these fools and rascals, that's all. The particular type of education, mathematics, chemistry, physics, what you have learned after working so hard, now you should by your educational-departmental education—you prove that the background is Kṛṣṇa. Then your education is perfect. That is the verse, idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā.

Satsvarūpa:

idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā
sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ
avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito
yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam
(SB 1.5.22)

"Learned circles have positively concluded that the infallible purpose of the advancement of knowledge, namely austerities, study of the Vedas, sacrifice, chanting of hymns and charity, culminate in the transcendental descriptions of the Lord, who is defined in choice poetry."

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Satsvarūpa: Yes. "Human intellect is developed for advancement of learning in art, science, philosophy, physics, chemistry, psychology, economics, politics, etc. By culture of such knowledge the human society can attain perfection of life. This perfection of life culminates in the realization of the Supreme Being, Viṣṇu. The śruti therefore directs that those who are actually advanced in learning should aspire for the service of Lord Viṣṇu. Unfortunately persons who are enamored by the external beauty of viṣṇu-māyā do not understand that culmination of perfection or self-realization..."

Prabhupāda: Nature, viṣṇu-māyā, nature. They are bewildered simply by seeing the nature.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Therefore in Islam religion the form is rejected because it will come to that. As soon as they think of form, they think of this material form, beautiful face of woman. That is degradation. Therefore we are strict not to conceive material form. That is Vedic conception. Apāni-pādaḥ javano grahītā: "He has no legs and no hands." This is... means denying the form. And next he says, the Vedas say, javano grahītā: "He can accept whatever you offer to Him." That means God has no material form, but He has form; otherwise how He can accept? How He can understand my love? So therefore in the original Islamism the form is not accepted. So that is Vedic description, form and formless. Formless means no material form, and form means spiritual form, simultaneous. Just like I am, you are. I am within the body, but I am not this body. This form not I am. But wherefrom the form of the body came into existence? Because I have got form. The sweater has got hand because I have got hand. The sweater is the covering. If I haven't got form, then how the sweater has got hand, the pant has got leg? So the pant practically is not the leg. The real leg is within the pant. Similarly, this is not my form; this is like pant, leg of the pant or hand of the coat. Real form is within, asmin dehe. That is not material form. If the real form I could see, you could see, then there was no controversy, the spirit. But they cannot see. Therefore they say "formless." If it is formless, then how the outer form comes out? How it can be? The tailor makes the coat because the man has got form. As the coat has got hands, so it is concluded that the man for whom the coat is made, he has got form. How you can say without form? The difficulty is that we can see the form of the coat, but we cannot see the form of the man. That is my defect with the eyes, not that the God is formless. God is not formless.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Therefore, Islam religion, (indistinct) reject it (indistinct). As soon as they think of form, they think of this material form, beautiful face of woman. That is degradation. Therefore, we are strict not to conceive material form. That is Vedic conception. Apāni-pādo javano grahitā. "He has no legs, no hands." This is denying the form. Next he says, Vedas says, javana grahitā. "He can accept whatever you offer to Him." That means He has, God has, no material form, but He has form, otherwise how He can accept it? How I can understand by love? So, therefore the original Islam the form is not accepted. That is Vedic description, form and formless. Formless means no material form and form means spiritual form, simultaneous. Just like I am, you are, I am within the body, but I am not this body. This form, I am not I am, but what from the form of the body has come into existence? Because I have got form. The sweater has got hand, because I have got hand. The sweater is the covering. If I haven't got form, then how the sweater has got hand, the pant has got leg? But the pant practically is not the leg, the real leg is within the pant. Similarly, this is not my form, this is like pant, leg of the pant or hand of the coat. Real form is within. Asmin dehe. That is not material form. If the real form I could see, you could see, then there would be no controversy, but they cannot see. Therefore, they say "formless". If it is formless then how the outward form comes about? How it can be? The tailor makes the coat because the man has got form. As the coat has got hand, so it is concluded that the man for whom the coat is made he has got form. How you can say without form? The difficulty is that we can see the form of the coat but we cannot see the form of the man. That is my defect in the eyes, not that the God is formless. God is not formless.

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes, but they have not reached the ultimate goal.

Paramahaṁsa: But they are trying.

Prabhupāda: They are trying. That is admitted. But, they are concluding that there is no operator. That is their foolishness, because they have failed to find out. They have to go further, further, and see, "Yes, there is operator." That is the final part of the... That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān mām (BG 7.19). So after many, many births of sincere inquiry, when he is actually intelligent, he will see, "Oh, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). Here is Vasudeva. He is everything." That is stated. He'll enquire. Go on enquiring, life after life. And then he'll come to understand vāsudevaḥ-sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ. You did not read this verse? They will come, after much trouble, much enquiry, they will come to the same conclusion, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). But they'll waste time. That's all. When we say, "Here is operator," they will not take. But they'll waste time, and life after life laboring, one day they will come.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Puṁsaḥ. Yes, the direction is... Read it.

Śrutakīrti: Idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā...

Prabhupāda: Come here.

Śrutakīrti:

idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā
sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ
avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito
yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam
(SB 1.5.22)

"Learned circles have positively concluded that the infallible purpose of the advancement of knowledge, namely austerities, study of the Vedas, sacrifice, chanting of hymns and charity, culminates in the transcendental descriptions of the Lord, who is defined in choice poetry."

Prabhupāda: The advancement of knowledge in any department, that is very good. But what is the aim? The aim is to glorify the Supreme Lord. Just like you are lawyer. You gave us help in some difficulty time. Why? Because you wanted to continue glorification of the Lord, that "These men are doing nice. Why they should be harassed?" So that means you helped glorification of the Lord. So that's your success as a lawyer. So anyone who helps this movement, that "They are spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness, God consciousness. They should be helped in all respect," that is the perfection. Everything is required, but it should be culminated in the matter of glorifying the Supreme. Then it is perfect.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Find out this verse.

Śrutakīrti:

ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā
varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ
svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya
saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam
(SB 1.2.13)

"Oh best among the twice-born, it is therefore concluded that the highest perfection one can achieve by discharging his prescribed duties, dharma, according to caste divisions and order of life, is to please the Lord, Hari."

Prabhupāda: That is religion. That should be developed, that "Whether by my profession, by my business, by my talent, by my capacities..." There are different categories. "Whether I have pleased God?" Then it is successful. If you have pleased God by your legal profession—you are in a different dress—it doesn't matter. You are as good as they are whole time only serving God. Because their business is also to please God. Similarly, if you have pleased God, then even by practicing your law, you are as good as the saintly person. That should be the aim, "Whether I have pleased God with my professional duty or occupational duty?" That is the standard. Let people take up this. We don't say that "You change your position. You become a sannyāsī or you give up your profession and become bald-headed." No, we don't say that. (laughs) We are by nature. (laughter) So this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that you remain in your position, but see whether by your discharge of duties you have pleased God.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That depends on your management, how you are raising the children. If they are Kṛṣṇa conscious, then it is all right. So far bodily defects, you might find. But we are denying from the very beginning, "I am not this body." So by finding some bodily defects how you will decide about the spirit? Because spirit is not this body. You cannot conclude that because there are some bodily defects, therefore he has got spiritual defect. That is not right conclusion. The same example: "because there are some dirty things in the Ganges, the Ganges is no more good." That conclusion is wrong.

Dr. Gerson: There has been a lot of bad propaganda that the children at Gurukula are unhappy and that they're not developing normally as children or human beings, and I would like to overcome that propaganda by showing that they are.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that the managers of the Gurukula, they should take care of. But if they follow the instruction which I have given for conducting Gurukula, then there is no question of... What is the general defect they are finding out?

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Revatīnandana:

mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ
jagad avyakta-mūrtinā
mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni
na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ
(BG 9.4)

Translation: By Me, in My unmanifested form, this entire universe is pervaded. All beings are in Me, but I am not in them.

Purport: The Supreme Personality of Godhead is not perceivable through the gross material senses. It is said that Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa's name, fame, pastimes, etc., cannot be understood by material senses. Only to one who is engaged in pure devotional service under proper guidance is He revealed. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated, premāñjanacchurita.... One can see the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Govinda, always within himself and outside himself if he has developed the transcendental loving attitude towards Him. Thus for people in general He is not visible. Here it is said that although He is all-pervading, everywhere present, He is yet not conceivable by the material senses. But actually, although we cannot see Him, everything is resting in Him. As we have discussed in the Seventh Chapter, the entire material cosmic manifestation is only a combination of His two different energies, the superior spiritual energy and the inferior material energy. Just as the sunshine is spread all over the universe, the energy of the Lord is spread all over the creation, and everything is resting in that energy.

Yet one should not conclude that because He is spread all over He has lost His personal existence. To refute such argument the Lord says, "I am everywhere, and everything is in Me, but still I am aloof." For example, a king heads a government which is but the manifestation of the king's energy; the different governmental departments are nothing but the energies of the king, and each department is resting on the king's power. But still one cannot expect the king to be present in every department personally. That is a crude example. Similarly, all the manifestations that we see, and everything that exists both in this material world and in the spiritual world, are resting on the energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The creation takes place by the diffusion of His different energies, and, as is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, He is everywhere present by His personal representation, the diffusion of His different energies.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Just wait. I am coming. (break) Kṛṣṇa says that "I am present everywhere by My energy. But personally I may not be here, in here." But ultimately there is no difference between Kṛṣṇa's energy and Kṛṣṇa. Wherever there is energy... Just like electricity. Everywhere there is. If you are expert you can generate electricity from anywhere.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Oh. No, Vedic culture do not keep skull, they burn it. Therefore there is no opportunity for you to see the Vedic culture. Then you become defective. Because you cannot see the skulls of Vedic culture. We burn it. So therefore your conclusion is defective.

Harikeśa: So the only bones they find are the bones of the fifth, sixth, seventh-class men.

Prabhupāda: Yes, of the monkey-class men. (laughter) That's all. Therefore you conclude that the man comes from monkey. That is the conclu... Human being, Vedic culture, they burn it. So they have no opportunity to see the human being skull. The monkeys, they do not burn. So he has seen only the monkey skull, and his conclusion is, "Man is from monkey."

Brahmānanda: Actually they are simply interested in bones, but this is the activity of the dog. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, he finds, (laughter) like that. So it is dog's philosophy. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...history in the I.A., intermediate. So a big professor, Dr. Kalidasa Nath, he began to speak, "There was stone age, simply stone there was," in this way. And I immediately..., that "What nonsense you are speaking, stone? There was nothing?" According to the anthropology of Darwin... From the very beginning, when I was a student, I did not believe this Darwin's theory. (break) ...study one after another, chronologically, as Darwin says, skull, it is not possible at all. For any single man it is not possible.

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1975, San Francisco:

Paramahaṁsa: About one month ago there was a very big story in the newspapers about how this student who went to all the archives in the Washington D.C. library, and from known records he compiled enough information to construct an atom bomb. Did you hear about that?

Prabhupāda: No.

Paramahaṁsa: He became world famous. So they concluded that anyone who wanted to could get normal information from normal sources and theoretically construct an atom bomb. But they don't have the equipment, but they have the knowledge now. So they're proposing in that sense that any terrorist organization within the next five years will be able to invent their own atom bomb.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact.

Bahulāśva: He was bribing one city in Florida that "You pay me so much money or else I'm going to blow up your city." And he sent them the plans, "Here is the bomb." So they became very frightened. And when they traced the letter, they found that it was only a sixteen year old boy who had done this. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the sound of the church bell very much. It is very attractive.

Brahmānanda: You want one like that for Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Not himself?

Bahulāśva: Well, they think they get an idea of man by studying the animals.

Brahmānanda: Catching the tail of the dog.

Bahulāśva: Of the crab. Then they come to conclude that since all the animals do is eat, sleep, mate and defend, man should also just do that.

Prabhupāda: Then why he has become man? Why not animal? Therefore the śāstra says, "One who is engaged in these animal activities, he is animal. He is not man." Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma idya-dhīḥ (SB 10.84.13). Actually, man is doing like that. In the jungle the similar animals, they flock together. This nationalism is like that. It is nothing better than that. So our defending, that "We are Americans," "We are Indians," "We are Germans"—the same thing. Because they are animals, they have this United Nations. The animals will fight, so they are trying to compromise, "Let us live peacefully." That is not possible because they are animals, all failure. (break)

Paramahaṁsa: Under the threat of nuclear warfare wouldn't Kṛṣṇa consciousness be more easy to spread?

Prabhupāda: No, threat is already there. But they are so fool that they are not afraid of the threat. Threat is already there. Everyone will die. That is the problem. So who is caring for this? They are avoiding this. They cannot take any anti measures.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. You must be experienced, that "There are counterfeit coins. I shall be very clever, intelligent, to see before accepting any genuine coin." That should be your conclusion. Not that I have met one or two counterfeit coins, therefore I conclude there is no genuine coin.

Bahulāśva: Just like in the old days when they would get a gold coin, they would bite it with their teeth to see if it was real gold, make a test. (break)

Baradrāj: ...false, they must also conclude that there's something true. Because that is relative. (break)

Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the basis for scientific rejection of religious dogma is that in the Medieval era in...

Prabhupāda: Religious..., not dogma. Just like in Christian religion it is said that "God created this." So this is a fact, but it is not properly explained. And neither the followers understood how to explain, third-class men. So therefore they should accept, that's all. They should accept. Just like one thing, sweetmeat. A child is tasting. So if the child wants how it is made, so he has no power to understand. Therefore he should be simply ordered, "You simply eat. That's all." So in the Bible it is like that. And therefore it is strictly ordered that "You should follow." The things are there but they are not explained because they were third-class men. Otherwise why the commandment was, "Thou shalt not kill," and they killed first of all Jesus Christ? So what class of men they were? All third-class, fourth-class men. How they will understand?

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- May 25, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: That I have just said. They cannot talk about moon. That means they did not go. That is now clear. (break) ...has answered my question why Monday first, er, Sunday first and Saturday last? All over the world, in India also, Sunday, er, Monday first, Sunday first, Monday second. Ask your scientist friend why this arrangement, Sunday first, Monday second, Saturday last? We have concluded that it will take seven months to reach the moon planet at the speed of eighteen thousand miles per hour. But they're going in four days. (everyone laughs) Just see how bluffing.

Hari-śauri: But they don't calculate the moon to be so far away.

Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness.

Hari-śauri: We did that calculation on the basis of 95,000,000 miles, which is about 2,000,000 miles from what the distance we get from the Bhāgavatam, combined with 93,000,000 miles...

Prabhupāda: But they say (sic:) ninety-three miles. Sun is (sic:) ninety-three miles away.

Hari-śauri: But we don't say that.

Prabhupāda: No, no. We say also.

Hari-śauri: What? 93,000,000?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Reporter: When I interviewed you perhaps five or six years ago, it was before there were reports of the astronauts landing on the moon, and I asked you at that time if you thought, what you thought about it, and you said that, as I recall, that they would not be able to land or explore, because spirits or creatures that lived on the moon would not allow it. The reports of course said that indeed people did land and explore and return safely. I understand you have further thoughts about that (laughter) and you've even written a lot about it. I wonder if you could tell me, not at great length perhaps, but what your belief about those events is.

Prabhupāda: Yes. From the.... That question I was discussing the other day. In the common sense, gross sense, that all over the world, they accept Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, in this way Saturday last. So why these arrangement? Sunday first and Monday second, and nobody could reply it. But as a layman I can conclude that Sun planet is first and the moon planet is next. So if you cannot go to the sun planet, which is ninety-three million miles away, how you can go to the moon planet within four days? Nobody could answer me. Can you answer?

Reporter: Well, I don't think it's worth the answer now, but I'm wondering what your response is.

Prabhupāda: But this is the arrangement all over the world. Sunday first, Monday second, then Tuesday. So Sun, Moon, Mars, Jupiter, in this way. Last Saturn. This is the arrangement of the planets. So if this is the arrangement of the planets, moonday next to..., moon next to sun, and if you cannot go to the sun, how can you go to the moon?

Reporter: Do you, in other words, do you believe that astronauts landed somewhere?

Prabhupāda: That is next question. First of all, whether you actually went to the moon, that is the first question. You have to conclude that you did not, because the sun planet is first, the moon planet is second. You cannot go to the sun planet, ninety-three millions of miles, how can you go to the moon planet?

Reporter: Well, except that...

Prabhupāda: According to our śāstra, the moon planet is above the sun planet, and the distance is 1,600,000 miles. So accepting that the sun is 93,000,000 miles away, then you add another 1,600,000, almost 2,000,000, it becomes 15,000,000 miles away. So if you go at the speed of 18,000 miles per hour, it takes more than 6 months. So how you go there in 4 days? And you advertise in the paper: "Now, they have reached." After 4 days.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The old man, her father?

Hari-śauri: I hope so. (pause) (break)...

Prabhupāda: Send to Svarūpa Dāmodara, he has got also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Monday. Sunday, Monday?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Days are in this order. So naturally one has to conclude that sun first, moon second. Naturally.

Rādhāvallabha: They will say, "Who has set up the order?"

Prabhupāda: Anyway, you accept it. All over the world, nobody says that Monday first. Then?

Candanācārya: Is this also in Sanskrit language? Sunday, Monday.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. Ask all scientists this simple question. Why, all over the world, Sunday, sun first and moon second? Why? And Saturday last. All of you could not answer this question. (devotees laugh)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You have stumped us.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali verse) Baḍo baḍo bānare, baḍo baḍo peṭa, laṅkā dingahe manamarā heṅṭa(?). "Big, big monkey, big, big belly. Ceylon jumping, melancholy."

Garden Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Jayādvaita: "The sons of Dhṛtarāṣṭra, whom if we killed we should not care to live, are now standing before us on this battlefield." Arjuna did not know whether he should fight and risk unnecessary violence, although fighting is the duty of the kṣatriyas, or whether he should refrain and live by begging. If he did not conquer the enemy, begging would be his only means of subsistence. Nor was there certainty of victory, because either side might emerge victorious. Even if victory awaited them (and their cause was justified), still, if the sons of Dhṛtarāṣṭra died in battle, it would be very difficult to live in their absence. Under the circumstances, that would be another kind of defeat for them. All these considerations by Arjuna definitely prove that he was not only a great devotee of the Lord but that he was also highly enlightened and had complete control over his mind and senses. His desire to live by begging, although he was born in the royal household, is another sign of detachment. He was truly virtuous, as these qualities, combined with his faith in the words of instruction of Śrī Kṛṣṇa (his spiritual master), indicate. It is concluded that Arjuna was quite fit for liberation. Unless the senses are controlled, there is no chance of elevation to the platform of knowledge, and without knowledge and devotion there is no chance of liberation. Arjuna was competent in all these attributes, over and above his enormous attributes in his material relationships.

Translation: Now I am confused about my duty and have lost all composure because of weakness. In this condition I am asking You to tell me clearly what is best for me. Now I am Your disciple, and a soul surrendered unto You. Please instruct me.

"By nature's own way the complete system of material activities is a source of perplexity for everyone. In every step there is perplexity, and therefore it behooves one to approach a bona fide spiritual master who can give one proper guidance for executing the purpose of life. All Vedic literatures advise us to approach a bona fide spiritual master to get free from the perplexities of life, which happen without our desire."

Prabhupāda: Now you can discuss among yourselves whether you have approached such spiritual master. What is that? This purport?

Jayādvaita: Read again. "Therefore it behooves one to approach a bona fide spiritual master who can give one proper guidance for executing the purpose of life. All Vedic literatures advise us to approach a bona fide spiritual master to get free from the perplexities of life, which happen without our desire."

Prabhupāda: So, whether you have approached such spiritual master, that you can discuss. This is the necessity of approaching a spiritual master.

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Rādhāvallabha: They say that under certain conditions, just like in...

Prabhupāda: No, don't, don't find such conditions. That is a rascaldom. We don't find such con... Anywhere you go, there are two kinds of living entities, moving and not moving.

Janāhlāda: One of the ways they tell whether there are advanced forms of life is if they can see vegetation growing on different planets in waves like the seasons, and if they can't see that in an orderly pattern, then they conclude that there is no life, no advanced life.

Prabhupāda: Why there is no vegetation? They say there is vegetation.

Rādhāvallabha: They say, lichens. Lichens are...

Prabhupāda: That means not yet certain.

Rādhāvallabha: No, they admit they're not certain.

Prabhupāda: This is all... They're misleading.

Room Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Nārada Muni...

Prabhupāda: About the foretelling of Bhāgavatam. The other day I recited so many verses. One of them, long hairs. Now see how practical. And now this is confirmation of the foretelling. Who knew five thousand years that people will keep long hairs and think of themselves as very beautiful? It is mentioned in Bhāgavata. How it is possible unless they can see actually what is going to happen? That is foretelling. And other description, they are also fact. Everything is there. And all this is five thousand, two thousand years' foretelling. The millions and millions of years' foretelling they are. What will the eighth Manu, and how they will..., ninth Manu, tenth Manu, up to fourteenth Manu. All the Manus together, forty-three lakhs, thousand times. This is all the Manus' time. And the whole history is concluded that "Now I have mentioned past, present and future." It is not difficult. Just like tomorrow for my daily routine, what I shall do tomorrow from morning to evening, I can say. Is it very difficult for me? So it is a question of Brahmā's one day. So it can be said by them, not by us. These rascals think only in their standard of thinking: "I cannot live in such such, such condition; therefore there is no living entity." This is their idea. "I cannot live within the water; therefore there is no living entity. I cannot live within the fire; therefore there is no living entity." Kūpa-māṇḍūkya-nyāya, the same. "Whatever is in my experience, three feet water... How there can be unlimited?"

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Why bacteria? Human beings. Otherwise, how Kṛṣṇa is speaking the sun-god? Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). Simply the sun-god is alone living?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.

Prabhupāda: Then the sun planet there are living entities. Their body is made of fire, that's all.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So it's better to say that when science says, scientists say there is no life in other planets, we can conclude that the senses or the forms that we have, or the elements that we have different...

Prabhupāda: They are different. Just like in the water, superficially we don't see any living being. But inside you go, there are many millions of living entities. They took photograph. What is the meaning of photograph from such a distance? If you take photograph of the sea, what you will find? It is vacant. So the rascals are taking photograph, and I have to believe it. Photograph, what is the meaning of photograph? There is no meaning. Take the photograph of the sea, if I know what is there. Then go deep into the water, you'll find millions and trillions.

Sadāpūta: There are also living entities living in the air that we can't see.

Prabhupāda: You can't see so many things. What is the value of your eyes? Why do you believe so much your eyes? You cannot see even your eyelids, so close. Still, you are blind. When there is some particle, you cannot see. You have to struggle how to get out this particle. If you see, then take it. So what is the value of your eyes? Why do you believe so much? Adhyakṣa, they are called adhyakṣa, only believe in direct perception.

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: It's different from material world.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Complex.

Prabhupāda: It has nothing to do with the material world.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is this valid to conclude that spirit, spiritual world, or life is very complex?

Prabhupāda: Not complex, it is simply spirit. In the material world it is complex. In the spiritual world, it is simple.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Is it all right? Is it understood?

Sadāpūta: Spirit means completely different from matter.

Rūpānuga: The whole idea is that the matter, where it's not touched by spirit, it's not very complicated. When there's life, then you have such a complication like a body. The human body is very complicated because life is there. Without life...

Prabhupāda: No, just like a machine, it can be complicated. But as soon as you put the plug, gada-gada-gada-gada comes. But the electricity is not complicated, the machine is complicated.

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: If you analyze your body, so many complications. But without life it is all dead matter.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, that is why we are concluding that matter, when it is associated with life, it is very complex.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Without matter, it is complex.

Rūpānuga: Without life.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Without life it's more complex, matter?

Prabhupāda: Yes, the same, the matter is the same.

Sadāpūta: Same body.

Rūpānuga: Well in a sense, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: There is no sense, try to understand. The body is complicated. But in spite of all this, it is useless unless there is life.

Rūpānuga: All right, so then in an embryo stage...

Prabhupāda: Any stage, it is, the whole thing is complicated.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. Kūpa-māṇḍūkya-nyāya. They knew some certain type of living entities, that's all.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So they think that all the living entities would be like that.

Prabhupāda: That is their kūpa-māṇḍūkya-nyāya, Dr. Frog. But the fact is, any condition of material existence, there is possibility of living entity there. Sarva-ga, sthāṇur, acalo'yaṁ sarva-ga. Everywhere there is living entity. It is impossible to conclude that on other planets there is no living entity. It is not possible.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Is it possible to do some experiments?

Prabhupāda: You experiment, you see a dead body. It is obnoxious smelling, but living entities coming.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, to show that matter is generated by life, we want to do some experiment.

Prabhupāda: That is there. Every day we are experiencing, huh? Just the same seed and the living entity comes and it becomes a tree and it grows, big tree, huge body. And as soon as it is dead, the body is not increasing. This is experiment. Everything is coming from life. Kṛṣṇa says, He's the supreme life, He says mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate iti matvā bhajante māṁ budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ (BG 10.8). He's the origin of everything, both matter and life, everything. Matter also coming from life, life is also coming from life. Therefore life is the original source of everything. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). So janmādy asya yataḥ is life. That is explained in the Bhāgavata. Janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). That source of everything is life and is fully conscious of everything what is happening. Anvayāt, indirectly and directly, fully conscious. That is life.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Just like this planetary system. So many planets are there. They do not know anything. And they are going to the Mars. They are going to the moon. All bluff. Two things unsolved. They do not know what is life and they do not know what are these planetary system. And still, they are speaking on these two subjects as authority. That is bluff.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we conclude that without understanding the existence of God, these two problems can never be answered.

Prabhupāda: Never be. You hear from God; then you have got perfect knowledge. And if you want to become scientist more than God, then you'll never know it. But their real propaganda is "There is no God." That is their real propaganda.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is the root cause of this illusion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They want to prove "There is no God. Everything is science." However rascaldom it may be, "It is everything." But we are preaching about God. How we can tolerate? We must expose them. That is our business.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: You can understand at any moment, but it requires little brain. Just like a child is growing or changing the body. A child is becoming a boy and the boy is becoming a young man. The body is changing, but the child cannot understand that his body's changing. Actually, the body is changing. So the young man's body is also changing, and the old man's body. Therefore the conclusion is that the body is changing, and the occupier of the body, it is the same. So on this logic, the occupier being the same and the bodies changing, it is to be concluded that when this body is changed, we get another body. This is called transmigration of the soul.

Mike Robinson: So when people die, it is just the physical body that dies.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is explained very elaborately in the Bhagavad-gita: na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20).

Mike Robinson: Are you there referring to references from the scriptures?

Prabhupāda: Yes, so many references. It is a series of education.

Arrival Conversation -- August 13, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Godless civilization, sinful activities. The reaction will increase, no rainfall, scarcity of foodgrains, and government taxes. These are written in Bhāgavata. Anāvṛṣṭi-durbhikṣa... Government will exact tax more.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There was a scientific study done by the CIA in America, this study done by the CIA on world weather conditions. And they concluded that the world weather conditions only get worse and worse. There's going to be drought every three, four years, and so there will not be food production.

Prabhupāda: It is predicted in the Bhāgavata five thousand years ago.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They're having earthquakes in China now.

Hari-śauri: Yes, big ones. They say a million people died in the last one.

Prabhupāda: You have got the keys for that?

Hari-śauri: I think they're... That last set that I gave you, Śrīla Prabhupāda? These, yes.

Prabhupāda: Print books many, as good as possible. Let us do our duty.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We have three small Hindi books in production, plus as I said, Hindi Back to Godhead.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And they continually going on giving information, rocks and sand. Why do you take so much trouble of going to Mars and this? If your go.... It is already concluded that we shall give this because they are already under the impression that all other planets are vacant. The same thing after spending millions of dollars, they're giving the same verdict. So why do this business? Simply cheating. They're cheating their boss that "We are making research." The result of research is the same. They're silent now, this Mars excursion?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: What they'll say? There is nothing to say. They do not go and even they go, they take photograph from millions of miles. What is the value of these things? But people are accepting that "Oh, scientific research." Perhaps I am the only man in the world who is protesting. (laughs) Eh? Everyone is accepting, "Oh, it is scientific."

Hari-Sauri: People are being duped now into believing that advancement means simply to research. Not to actually find out anything valuable, but just to do some research. They think that that's the whole thing, education is just to research.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the European, you don't get the result, go on researching and spoil the money.

Devotee (2): Kṛṣṇa has manufactured everything in such a complicated way, that their search is never-ending.

Prabhupāda: That article written by Svarūpa Dāmodara in the recent Back to Godhead.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Neither they want. They are becoming skeptic.

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Nobody's bona fide, that's all. This is their conclusion. Because they have confronted with some non-bona fide, they have concluded that everyone is non-bona fide.

Hari-śauri: It's very easy just to try to brush it all under the couch and forget about it.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) A man's household utensils was taken by the thief. He promised, "I shall not purchase anymore utensils, I shall eat on the floor. (laughs) Because the thief has stolen my plates, I'm not going to purchase anymore, I shall eat on the floor. (Bengali)

Hari-śauri: They give the example that just because someone may be passing counterfeit money, that doesn't mean that all the money you get...

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. They conclude that no more take any money, all counterfeit. At least in India, Bhagavad-gītā is there, accepted, the God-science literature all over the world.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Jagadīśa:

idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā
sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ
avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito
yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam
(SB 1.5.22)

Translation: "Learned circles have positively concluded that the infallible purpose of the advancement of knowledge, namely austerities, study of the Vedas, sacrifice, chanting of hymns and charity, culminates in the transcendental descriptions of the Lord, who is defined in choice poetry."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, suppose you are a well known philosopher. If you say, "There is God," so many people will hear: "Oh, here is a big philosopher." Therefore your studies of philosophy will be perfect when you establish, "Yes, there is God." Otherwise it is useless because you will waste your time and you'll waste... Already they are Godless.

Dr. Kneupper: How does one establish clearly?

Prabhupāda: That requires thinking. That requires knowledge. Therefore we are giving so many books. You can study. You can present the case nicely with argument, philosophy. That is your duty. Avicyutaḥ arthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānu... When you are able to describe God very philosophically, scientifically, mathematically, then your education is perfect.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Is it possible to stop it? Or young men, if he says "No, no, I'm not going to..." but everyone wants that. Young man does not want to become old man, but by nature's law he has to become.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
kartāham iti manyate
(BG 3.27)

So the idea is that after losing our own culture, we have become set of fools. This is the real conclusion. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). We have become so lowest of mankind and mūḍha and full of sinful activities that we cannot understand what Kṛṣṇa says. This is real position. I am not speaking—Kṛṣṇa says. This is the sign. If one does not hear Kṛṣṇa, then he must be grouped in these categories: duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhama, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. What is the value of their so-called education if they cannot understand the simple truth, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13)? What is the value of this education? Today I may be very big man, but I do not know that there is dehāntara. And what kind of deha I am going to get? Nobody has any knowledge, neither they're interested to cultivate. They have concluded that "After death, everything is finished." This is their education. Blind. Westerners, they say it frankly. That big, big professor, I have talked: "Swamiji, after death everything is finished." This is their conclusion. And our first education is that: tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. And they have given up everything. Kartāham iti manyate. (Hindi) If you do not know the science, simply by false prestige you say "No, whatever I am thinking, it is all right." Are you free? You are completely under the laws of material nature. Why you are thinking foolishly? This is Indian culture. Even in the village, remotest village, you go and they will say, (Hindi) pūrva-janme... (Hindi) They'll say. This is India's culture, pūrva-janma, paro-janma, dehāntara-prāptiḥ. And you have lost your sense. What kind of education? What is the value of this education? Very precarious condition.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Hari-śauri: In every civilized human society there is some set of scriptural rules and regulations which are followed from the beginning, especially among the Āryans, those who adopt the Vedic civilization and who are known as the most advanced civilized peoples. Those who do not follow the scriptural injunctions are supposed to be demons. Therefore it is stated here that the demons do not know the scriptural rules, nor do they have any inclination to follow them. Most of them do not know them, and even if some of them know, they have not the tendency to follow them. They have no faith, nor are they willing to act in terms of the Vedic injunctions. The demons are not clean, either externally or internally.

One should always be careful to keep his body clean by bathing, brushing teeth, changing clothes, etc. As far as internal cleanliness is concerned, one should always remember the holy names of God and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. The demons neither like nor follow all these rules for external and internal cleanliness.

As for behavior, there are many rules and regulations guiding human behavior, such as the Manu-saṁhitā, which is the law of the human race. Even up to today, those who are Hindu follow the Manu-saṁhitā. Laws of inheritance and other legalities are derived from this book. Now, in the Manu-saṁhitā, it is clearly stated that a woman should not be given freedom. That does not mean that women are to be kept as slaves, but they are like children. Children are not given freedom, but that does not mean that they are kept as slaves. The demons have now neglected such injunctions, and they think that women should be given as much freedom as men. However, this has not improved the social condition of the world. Actually, a woman should be given protection at every stage of life. She should be given protection by the father in her younger days, by the husband in her youth, and by the grownup sons in her old age. This is proper social behavior according to the Manu-saṁhitā. But modern education has artificially devised a puffed up concept of womanly life, and therefore marriage is practically now an imagination in human society. Nor is the moral condition of woman very good now. The demons, therefore, do not accept any instruction which is good for society, and because they do not follow the experience of great sages and the rules and regulations laid down by the sages, the social condition of the demoniac people is very miserable.

(break), The demoniac conclude that the world is phantasmagoria. There is no cause, no effect, no controller, no purpose: everything is unreal. They say that this cosmic manifestation arises due to chance material actions and reactions. They do not think that the world was created by God for a certain purpose. They have their own theory: that the world has come about in its own way and that there is no reason to believe that there is a God behind it. For them there is no difference between spirit and matter, and they do not accept the Supreme Spirit. Everything is matter only, and the whole cosmos is supposed to be a mass of ignorance. According to them, everything is void, and whatever manifestation exists is due to our ignorance in perception. They take it for granted that all manifestation of diversity is a display of ignorance. Just as in a dream we may create so many things, which actually have no existence, so when we are awake we shall see that everything is simply a dream. But factually, although the demons say that life is a dream, they are very expert in enjoying this dream. And so, instead of acquiring knowledge, they become more and more implicated in their dreamland. They conclude that as a child is simply the result of sexual intercourse between man and woman, this world is born without any soul. For them it is only a combination of matter that has produced the living entities, and there is no question of the existence of the soul. As many living creatures come out from perspiration and from a dead body without any cause, similarly, the whole living world has come out of the material combinations of the cosmic manifestation. Therefore material nature is the cause of this manifestation, and there is no other cause. They do not believe in the words of Kṛṣṇa in Bhagavad-gītā: mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram. "Under My direction the whole material world is moving." In other words, amongst the demons there is no perfect knowledge of the creation of this world; every one of them has some particular theory of his own. According to them, one interpretation of the scriptures is as good as another, for they do not believe in a standard understanding of the scriptural injunctions.

Prabhupāda: Should we read?

Hari-śauri: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: It is already there.

Satsvarūpa: The whole defense is prepared by Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa has given all knowledge. Actually nobody has tried to present Bhagavad-gītā like this. That's a fact. And it is acting. (laughs) Now it is acting. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante... (BG 7.15). Make your defense measure consulting all these books, everything. Transmigration, in the morning I...?

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I don't think we shall add in our...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we concluded that... The thing is that it's clear... This man will probably get no... No one will listen to him. Everybody will think that it is raving of a madman. Just like whenever the reporters... I remember the Los Angeles...

Prabhupāda: He has given very good reasoning.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everything is reasonable. But so were your reasons. Just like when you met with the reporter from Los Angeles Times, I remember last year... When this question comes up they, inside they are laughing. When they hear our opinion they think it is a joke. They cannot conceive that the whole thing could be a hoax. We were discussing that actually, that the nation is more dear to most people than their family is, because one will get divorced from his family, but who will give up citizenship? Very rarely does anyone give up his citizenship. But people divorce again and again. So to... The nation is something very strong, that affection, and nation, in America, means this moon shot, all of these things, the truthfulness of the leaders. So this is too shocking. Probably the American people could not swallow it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (indistinct) Lie.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. Why no other newspaper carried the story?

Prabhupāda: It is only because I disbelieved, he disagreed. (referring to Puruṣottama?) He disagreed with me from that moment. He thought me foolish that I do not believe scientific research.

Conversation: Vairagya, Salaries, and Political Etiquette -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like the original... When Jesus was there and he had twelve disciples, they simply gave up everything and traveled with him and tried to preach. So they were renunciates, living simply whatever they could take, nothing more, and devoting their lives to God. But the followers later on, more and more they added the degree of sense gratification, till now you can't see any renunciation at all within their order.

Prabhupāda: No, they are drinking. They are having homosex. They are encouraging homosex, giving man-to-man marriage. You know that? This is going on. Doing everything nonsense.

Girirāja: Actually their leader...

Prabhupāda: And they are concluding that they cannot stop committing sins and Jesus Christ will take account for them. Therefore it is very good religion, that "We can do whatever nonsense we like, and if we keep our faith in Jesus Christ, then we are saved." Pāpa-buddhiḥ, nāmno balād pāpa-buddhiḥ. Great offenders. So what news?

Girirāja: Well, the reason I came up is I'm going to try to phone Mr. Rajda now.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Girirāja: Going to try to phone Mr. Rajda. And considering that the Prime Minister may not have that much time... We had discussed that he should come here to meet you, but suppose if we fix up, say, a minimum time if he can't come here, say at least a half hour undisturbed, something like that, is it possible to fix in the city or we should just insist that...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's suggesting that if the Prime Minister can't give that much time, whether you would go to see him? Actually, if you give the idea that Prabhupāda wants to see him in the morning hours...

Girirāja: Yeah, I'm going to.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean, if he says that that's not possible...

Prabhupāda: That is not respectful.

Discussions with Devotees and Conversation with Dr. Ghosh -- June 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Jagadīśa: Here it is clearly mentioned that living entities belong to the superior nature (or energy) of the Supreme Lord. The inferior energy is matter manifested in different elements, namely earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego. Both forms of material nature, namely gross (earth, etc.) and subtle (mind, etc.), are products of the inferior energy. The living entities, who are exploiting these inferior energies for different purposes, are the superior energy of the Supreme Lord, and it is due to this energy that the entire material world functions. The cosmic manifestation has no power to act unless it is moved by the superior energy, the living entity. Energies are always controlled by the energetic, and therefore living entities are always controlled by the Lord—they have no independant existence. They are never equally powerful, as unintelligent men think. The distinction between the living entities and the Lord is described in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as follows (10.87.30):

aparimitā dhruvās tanubhṛto yadi sarva-gatās
tarhiṁ na śāsyateti niyamo dhruva netarathā
ajani ca yanmayaṁ tad avimucya niyantṛ
bhavet samam anujānatāṁ yad-amataṁ mata-duṣṭatayā

"O Supreme Eternal! If the embodied living entities were eternal and all-pervading like You, then they would not be under Your control. But if the living entities are accepted as minute energies of Your Lordship, then they are at once subject to Your supreme control. Therefore real liberation entails surrender by the living entities to Your control, and that surrender will make them happy. In that constitutional position only can they be controllers. Therefore, men with limited knowledge who advocate the monistic theory that God and the living entities are equal in all respects are actually misleading themselves and others."

The Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa is the only controller, and all living entities are controlled by Him. These living entities are His superior energy because the quality of their existence is one and the same with the Supreme, but they are never equal to the Lord in quantity of power. While exploiting the gross and subtle inferior energy (matter), the superior energy (the living entity) forgets his real spiritual mind and intelligence. This forgetfulness is due to the influence of matter upon the living entity. But when the living entity becomes free from the influence of the illusory material energy, he attains the stage called mukti, or liberation. The false ego, under the influence of material illusion, thinks, "I am matter, and material acquisitions are mine." His actual position is realized when he is liberated from all material ideas, including the conception of his becoming one in all respects with God. Therefore one may conclude that the Gītā confirms the living entity to be only one of the multi-energies of Kṛṣṇa; and when this energy is freed from material contamination, it becomes fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, or liberated. (break)

Dr. Ghosh: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Begin. (Bengali conversation) (break) What is that?

Bhavānanda: Fruit juice and sabji, so much...

Dr. Ghosh: But you'll get your pomegranates? I'll get it.

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali) (Bengali conversation)

Dr. Ghosh: How you'll take care of him?

Upendra: Massage. He's cooking.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (Bengali conversation) We have got black cows.

Room Conversation -- October 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just writing some notes. I was remembering the discussion we had, all of your disciples and you, when we were considering whether we should go to Vṛndāvana or not, how we were all giving different arguments, one side or the other. So I was remembering how... I was just writing down some of the different arguments. Then we all concluded that the best program was to come to Vṛndāvana. And now I can see that it was the right conclusion, because I feel that we are at home. Here it is home. Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma are here.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Did you have a nice rest? I think so. I think you rested for about three hours in a row just now.

Prabhupāda: Three hours?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. It's a nearly quarter to one. You were very tired from the trip. (break) I've heard it said that when great personalities arrive, everything is always cleansed. So I see that upon your coming, everything is cleansed by Kṛṣṇa sending all of this rain. The atmosphere becomes cool, and the sound of the rain is also very pleasing.

Prabhupāda: And there is sun? Sun also was there?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The sunshine? There was sunshine when we arrived, but now it is cloudy and rain. I was wondering, Śrīla Prabhupāda, whether you would like for the kavirāja to be called. I was thinking he might be called tomorrow. Today no need for him to come. Better that you mostly relax today. I was thinking that as you said, better or worse, some husband must be there. (Prabhupāda laughs) So we should have some doctor. Is that all right? It's so nice to be with you when you are in Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: So you can do the needful.

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The affection was increasing not to māyā, but because Kṛṣṇa expanded Himself as everything... So their whole life was meant for Kṛṣṇa. On account of Kṛṣṇa affection, the affection of the older calves were more than the new calves. What is written in the English Kṛṣṇa?

Jayādvaita: "One day when Kṛṣṇa, along with Balarāma, was maintaining the calves in the forest..." It's just up here. "Balarāma was astonished to see all the residents of Vṛndāvana so affectionate for their own children, exactly as they had been for Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, the cows had grown affectionate for their calves as much as for Kṛṣṇa. Balarāma therefore concluded that the extraordinary show of affection was something mystical, either performed by the demigods or by some powerful man."

Prabhupāda: Is it clear now? Balarāma was surprised to see the action of yogamāyā; therefore He inquired from Kṛṣṇa, "What is happening in this scene? What is that mystery?" Is it clear?

Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: In this way go very slow, but the discussion may be complete. So you can go on.

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Balarāma was surprised, "This māyā may be some rākṣasī-māyā. But how rākṣasī-māyā can influence upon Balarāma? That is not possible. Therefore it must be the māyā of Kṛṣṇa." Therefore He inquired. What is there in the English?

Jayādvaita: "Balarāma inquired from Kṛṣṇa about the actual situation. He said, 'My dear Kṛṣṇa, in the beginning I thought that all these cows, calves and cowherd boys were either great sages and saintly persons or demigods. But at the present it appears that they are actually Your expansions. They are all You. You Yourself are playing as the calves and cows and boys.' " This is later? Before that, "Balarāma had concluded that the extraordinary show of affection was something mystical, either performed by the demigods or some powerful man. Otherwise how could this wonderful change take place? He concluded that this mystical change must have been caused by Kṛṣṇa, whom Balarāma considered His worshipable Personality of Godhead. He thought, 'It was arranged by Kṛṣṇa, and even I could not check its mystic power.' Thus Balarāma understood that all those boys and calves were only expansions of Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: Is it now clear?

Pradyumna: Yes, Prabhupāda. Next verse. Iti sañcintya dāśārhaḥ...

Prabhupāda: Iti—thus; sañcintya—thinking.

Pradyumna: "Thinking thus," dāśārhaḥ. Dāśārhaḥ (rāmaḥ)— "Balarāma."

Prabhupāda: Dāśārhaḥ.

Pradyumna: Dāśārhaḥ. Vatsān sa-vayasān api, sarvān ācaṣṭa vaikuṇṭhaṁ cakṣuṣā vayunena saḥ. (Sanskrit-Saḥ to sa-vayasān)

Prabhupāda: Jñāna-cakṣuṣā is...? Try to give English.

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So... (Bengali) Rāmānuja-sampradāya kavirāja (Bengali) Doctor treatment, failure.

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali) I was telling that it worked as far as urine was concerned.

Bhavānanda: We're not sure that that was the result of the medicine or the result of liquid intake.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The urine has been clear for five months in a row, so when it got unclear for three days and Prabhupāda wasn't drinking anything, then as soon as he drank it became clear. So I can't conclude that it was the doctor.

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali) (pause)

Prabhupāda: What he has said? Hm?

Bhavānanda: Well, he was stumped as to why you had no appetite, and he said that possibly because you are taking less air in your left lung than in your right lung, there may be some infection in the lung—he said that generally is denoted also by lack of appetite—of some tubercular or pleurisy or pneumatic nature.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So he's prescribing that anti-tuberculin drug called Isotoxin. That's also called Isonayazid.(?) That is anti-tuberculin drug that he's prescribing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he doesn't even know. He doesn't really know if it's tuberculous.

Bhavānanda: He didn't prescribe any medicine.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: One of the medicines is that Isotoxin. I asked...

Ādi-keśava: That is a very, very strong drug, very, very strong. It has a very heavy effect.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Isotoxin is also called Isonayazid.(?) It's the chemical name. I know that, I discussed with...

Prabhupāda: Then he'll say, "Remove to the hospital."

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Why?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because you are the only substantial personality amongst all of them. Therefore they know that. We have concluded that they know.

Akṣayānanda: I just spoke. I just told them Śrīla Prabhupāda was one Indian who has done this, so if everyone in India does this a little, then the whole world would become Vaikuṇṭha. And I said, "He has one secret, one śloka from the Bṛhad Nāradīya Purāṇa: harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva (CC Adi 17.21)." They liked it very much. They all applauded. I told them in Hindi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You spoke in Hindi?

Akṣayānanda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But they won't change.

Akṣayānanda: I also said that many, many swamis and yogis and sannyāsīs have tried to bring the teachings all over the world. And they have given different versions, just like dhyāna, jñāna, karma, etc. But then I quoted two ślokas, na tad mām abhijānanti, and the other one, yas tas tu aham evaṁ viduḥ.(?) I said, "In this way our spiritual master has taught us. Even though we are foreigners, he has successfully made us come to the lotus feet of Lord Kṛṣṇa. So if you are all Indians and you know Lord Kṛṣṇa better than me, so come and stay with us. All over the world my Guru Mahārāja has established our temples. Please stay with us anywhere in the world and help us, join us at the lotus feet of the Lord." So they were very happy with this.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's good that you tell this to Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Bombay also.

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Who is attending?

Bhavānanda: Upendra.

Prabhupāda: Upendra is very good attendant. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We were discussing how to make this parikrama possible, and we've concluded that the best thing was, as we said earlier, to parikrama around Vṛndāvana to begin with. And for that purpose we sent Lokanātha Mahārāja and Pañca-draviḍa Mahārāja and Trivikrama Mahārāja to get a bullock cart ready.

Prabhupāda: Hired or purchased?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, for now just hired, not purchased. Later on we can make a more permanent arrangement, and it can be fixed up as nicely as possible. At the same time while we were meeting, the kavirāja, he also was present. So we inquired from him what he thought about this program, from a medical point of view of course. Spiritually he is in complete agreement. So from a medical point of view, he said that you would not at all be able to withstand this kind of a trip. He said that in a bullock cart, moving around, bumping on the road, you might not be able to live more than a couple of hours. He's here now. He wanted to speak to you.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Lokanātha?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Lokanātha has already gone, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Haṁsadūta: He has gone to Mathurā for renting.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He has gone out for renting the bullock cart.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lokanātha says that the bullock cart could probably go around Vṛndāvana in about five to six hours, parikramming Vṛndāvana town.

Prabhupāda: Make an experiment. Then we shall decide.

Page Title:Concluded that... (Conversations)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:18 of Feb, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=60, Let=0
No. of Quotes:60