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Conception (Conv. 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"concept" |"conception" |"conceptions" |"concepts" |"conceptual" |"conceptualization" |"conceptualize" |"conceptually"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: concept* not "vedic concept*" not "material concept*" not "bodily concept*

Conversations and Morning Walks

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 2, 1976, Madras:

Prabhupāda: So they are also not in the fire. I say even if it is in the fire, there is no harm because the living soul is not burned to fire. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Adāhyo 'yam. Dāhya. Dāhya means burned. It is not burned. These are wrong conception. Because they have no conception of the soul, they think bhaṣmi bhūtasya dehasya: "When the body is burned, then the soul is also burned." If the soul is burned, then where is the question of tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13)? How? In the Hindu system they burn the body. So if the soul is also burned, then where is punar janma? You?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can accept that the soul is not burned, but what about the body?

Prabhupāda: Body is burned.

Morning Walk -- January 20, 1976, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Written within the last thousand years.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You know that? They say like that. So many rascals are there. And this is the only shelter, these, our centers, to be protected from all these rascals. These ISKCON centers are the only shelter. So you have to maintain it very nicely. There is no other shelter. All bogus more or less, all bogus. But you have to, not to... You quote, but the purpose of the verse you present reasonably. If you simply quote, it will not be simply very appealing. "Oh, they are simply..." Sometimes the Westerner criticize that, my Godbrother, Sadānanda? He was criticizing that "Your presentation..." "Your" means our, this Vaiṣṇava literature. "Simply you quote some Sanskrit verse, that's all." So these Sanskrit verses should be explained for understanding of the modern people. If you simply quote, it is not very appealing. In Durban..., Durban? We went to that university. You remember? That Ārya-samājī? He was speaking that "This is Hindu conception. Hindu conception." And what do you mean by Hindu conception? A child grows to become a boy. Is that Hindu conception? It is science. When Kṛṣṇa said, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13), that's a fact. It is applicable to the Hindus, to the Muslim, to the Christian, everyone. Why do you say it is Hindu conception? So you have to present in that way. They may not think that it is Hindu conception. Because they are all rascals, unless you explain it, that this is meant for everyone, they will misunderstand that Bhāgavata is for the Hindus or for the Indians. It is for everyone. But one must realize. There is no question of Hindu conception or Muslim conception. (rattling sound) So this will go on whole day? "Cut-cut-cut-cut"?

Bhavānanda: Morning and evening.

Morning Walk -- February 11, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This is Kali-yuga. Durbhikṣa-kārāpīḍita. One side, government disturbance, one side, no food, and they let them live very happily. That's all. This is their conception of happiness. Tactation(?), taxation, and no food, and natural disturbance.

Hṛdayānanda: (break) ...country in my zone. Many times big tidal waves come and many, many towns are simply carried away into the ocean and destroyed. Thousands of people... Every so many years gigantic waves come, and thousands of people are killed and many towns are destroyed. (break)

Prabhupāda: Observe. You have got any pañjikā?

Jayapatākā: Yes. Just now bringing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So there is mention what to do.

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1976, Mayapur:

Hṛdayānanda: That a million, they say that...

Prabhupāda: No, no. There are two sizes. One is anu, and one is paramanu. Six anus make one paramanu. That is statement. Six anus, and combine together it becomes a paramanu. That is atom. Therefore they are dividing atom. That is already there in the Vedic literature.

Acyutānanda: So the scientists' conception of atom is wrong?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Acyutānanda: The scientists' conception of the atom is wrong.

Prabhupāda: Everything is wrong.

Acyutānanda: But by their, even though they are, they are wrong, by their conception they are making an atomic bomb. They can utilize...

Prabhupāda: So far you can, can...

Acyutānanda: To show results.

Prabhupāda: That does not mean he knows everything.

Morning Walk -- March 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: So why don't you become a GBC and...

Siddha-svarūpa: Because I can't work... There's no way.

Prabhupāda: No...

Atreya Ṛṣi: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there is one point, that each of us thinks that our understanding of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the only way. We must realize that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is much bigger, much, much bigger than our only concept that "This is bona fide, and this is the only way Prabhupāda wants it." We must appreciate that Prabhupāda is approving all of these ways, including how Siddha-svarūpa Mahārāja is preaching, and we must be more tolerant and accept each other. This is not un-bona fide. I've read his books.

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1976, Mayapur:
Prabhupāda: If he surrenders, the knowledge will be there. That knowledge.... It is very psychological. If you surrender.... If I surrender to you, I must have some conception that you are very big. That much conception will help you, not more than this. Simply accept that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. Kṛṣṇa bhakti kaile sarva karma kṛta haya. If you simply understand this, that "If I surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then everything is in my knowledge..." Sraddha śabde viśvāsa sudṛḍha niścaya, kṛṣṇa bhakti kaile sarva karma... And then he becomes immediately. And if I surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then my life is successful. This much. Is it very difficult?

Gurukṛpā: No, it's the easiest thing. Prabhupāda: Kavirāja Gosvāmī has explained very nicely. This is viśvāsa.

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Tuwā o pada baraṇe(?) This is required.

Acyutānanda: Serving the root.

Prabhupāda: "My only responsibility is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa"—then this very conception will save you.

Rāmeśvara: I spoke with one man who argued that "Kṛṣṇa is very cruel because He knows everything past, present and future, so He knew that we would all fall down from the spiritual sky, but still, He gave us the independence to fall down."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Rāmeśvara: "Even though He knew we would fall, because He knows everything..."

Acyutānanda: That's a common question.

Prabhupāda: That is another foolish question. Unless you have got independence, what is your life? Then you are dead stone. You want to become a dead stone? That is not Kṛṣṇa's concern. Kṛṣṇa does not give such perfection, that you become a dead stone.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Whatever... The system is done by some leaders. Anything... Just like our, this system we have introduced. I am the leader. Similarly, a leader is changed for betterment of the situation. So if the communists and those who have brain, if they find a better leader for better situation, why they'll not? And they want for revolution also. They are in favor of revolution. Their theory is that periodically there must be revolution. That is their theory. I talked with Professor Kotovsky. So why they will not accept another revolution for further advancement?

Madhudviṣa: One of the main problems I can see is to divorce our movement from religious concept because...

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of religious concept. This is nonsense. You have to... Just like when Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13)—that is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā—so does it mean a religion? Then why these nonsense take it as religion? It is a fact. How you can neglect the fact? Eh? Kaumāraṁ yauvanam jara. A baby becoming a boy, boy becoming a young man, is it religion? Either Hindu or Muslim or Christian or Buddha, everyone is becoming like that. Where is religion? Why do they take it as religion?

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: The context is that if you cannot separate the living force, or the soul, from the body, then you are on the same position as the dog is thinking, "I am the body. I am a big dog. I can bark very loudly." And he's showing his capacity. And if we are talking big, big assembly, and in the same conception of life, that "I am this body," then where is difference?

Mike Barron: I cannot argue against that.

Prabhupāda: That is the point. That is the point. We have to understand this point. If we want to become more than the dog, you must find out in which sense we are more than the dog. That sense is understanding.... That is.... In Sanskrit word it is said, ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am Brahman. I am not this matter." That is knowledge. Actually knowledge begins from that point, that "I am not this body." Just like a big 747 plane is running on, but there is the intelligent pilot. If somebody says, "There is no pilot. It is flying automatically. The machine is supported," is it a correct?

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No method. Same method. But if you say it, a different method, then we don't mind, but this is the subject matter of study. "Two plus two" is taught by the Christian and the Muslim, the Hindu. "Two plus two equal to four." There is no method of studying. The studying is the same. But if you take that "I'll read 'two plus two' in a Christian school," that is your choice. That's another thing. But wherever you go, "Two plus two equal to four," it is same. You call it Christian or Hindu or Muslim. That's your whims. Science is science. So we are preaching that "You are not this body; you are different from body." So it is equally necessary for the Christian, for the Hindu, for the Australian, for the American, for the African, everyone.

Brian Singer: What's.... What's the concept of...

Prabhupāda: If you say that.... I say that "You are not this body; you are soul." Now, if you say that "As Christian, we don't believe in it," then what can I say? Then I have to say that Christian have no clear idea of knowledge. There is no question of belief. Fact is fact. A child will become a boy. That's a fact. How you can say that "We Christian, we do not believe"? That means ignorance, less intelligence. It is a fact. Everyone knows. Child becomes a boy.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, why constantly striving? God says that "You think of Me." So where is my difficulty to think of Him unless I am disobedient? I can think of God always. There is no difficulty. There is no expenditure. There is no disadvantage. But if I am rascal, I'll disobey. That is the.... If I am rascal, then I will disobey. I will not think of God. I'll think of something else.

Guest (3): Well, this is.... I guess you have a different...

Prabhupāda: Why different?

Guest (3): ...concept of Christ because we...

Prabhupāda: No, no, Christ said that "You accept me as the Supreme." So why the people do not accept him as the Su...?

Guest (3): Well, we accept him, but, see, he had to be a savior...

Prabhupāda: But you accept him in this way, that "Let me commit all kinds of nonsense, and Christ will suffer."

Press Conference -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Prabhupāda: Reason is that Hare Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa is the name of God, Kṛṣṇa. So if you... Kṛṣṇa is absolute, God is absolute. God's name and God, there is no difference. That is absolute idea. So if you chant Kṛṣṇa's name, that means you associate with Kṛṣṇa directly, God. And by associating with God, you become purified. Then the dirty things within your mind... You are thinking, "I am this body," as the dog is also thinking, "I belong to America," "I belong to Australia," "I belong to New Zealand," "I... India," and... These wrong conception will go away. Then we'll understand that "I am not this or that; I am spirit soul, part and parcel of God." Then real knowledge begins, and if we act accordingly, our life becomes successful. So this movement is not meant for you and me—for everyone who is intelligent human being.

Interviewer: Thank you, Swami. That wraps it up for me unless anybody's got any more questions? Thank you, thank you very much.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you very much. (end)

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1976, Honolulu:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Not yet.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He, American people (indistinct) say, "In God we trust." That's very nice, but why you take this philosophy blindly? Find out who is God and why you should trust. That is intelligence. The slogan is nice, why don't you fight on this issue? The Kṛṣṇa Consciousness movement. You can fight on this issue. Intelligently, if we'll put (indistinct). We trust in God, but what is God? Eh? Hayagrīva? They like to trust in God. Then ask them what is God. They cannot reply.

Hayagrīva: They would say the Christian conception of God.

Prabhupāda: Any conception, God is not Christian, not Hindu, not...

Hayagrīva: They would say, "God is the Almighty Power."

Prabhupāda: That's all right. (end)

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Why it is idea? Explain. What for this idea? Why this idea is necessary?

Devotee (1): Basically I think because in the Western countries there's no conception of God.

Prabhupāda: They.... Those who have no conception, that is another thing. But those who talk of God, that there is God or there is no God, what is the conception of God? That is.... Why do they say there is no God? Why do they say there is God? Somebody accept there is God. Somebody does not accept. So, there are two causes.

Hari-śauri: The basic principle is that God is there, so you either accept or reject Him.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) One is doubtful or one is convinced. God is there. One is doubtful, he says "There is no God." My question is why the question of God is there?

Devotee (1): General consensus is that when one is in need of God, then they accept God. They don't think that out of knowledge...

Prabhupāda: Therefore I am asking what is the conception, why they need, why they do not need. First of all describe food. There is some idea, that food is like this. Then the question of food. If there is no need of food, then why is this food question?

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, such a wonderful things is there, and there is no brain behind it? Is it very reasonable proposal? It has come automatically. There is a chunk. Childish.

Devotee (1): Because it's too much beyond their conception, they say that it's simply imagination.

Prabhupāda: Ha?

Devotee: They say that simply because it's too much beyond their conception...

Prabhupāda: It's a fact. You see the heat and light. It is not the imagination. So who arranged so much heat and light? That is the question. It is not imagination. We have to manufacture a small bolt. It requires a big, big factory's brain. And this has come by chunk? Nonsense. And you have to accept it? These crazy fellows propose and we have to accept.

Devotee (2): (break) ...they say that simply the universe always was, and that it always will be.

Prabhupāda: Whatever is (unclear) nature, there is brain behind. That is the proposal. Why there is, that doesn't matter. But it will continue. World is and will continue. That's a fact. But who made it? That is the question.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They cannot think that a person, how he can produce a sky? That is beyond their conception. This is their illusion.(?) They say God is all-powerful, but He cannot produce a sky. This is their defect of knowledge. If God is all-powerful, why He cannot produce a sky? That they cannot think. Yes, He's all-powerful, cannot produce a sky. Their intellect. Poor intellect.

Mahendra: Many of us were also thinking God to be impersonal before we met you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mahendra: We were not attached to that conception. When you explained personal nature of God and the many arguments in favor, gradually we were convinced. But then there are those also who are attached to that conception, like in the Bhagavad-gītā it says those who are attached to that conception...

Prabhupāda: No, we can see every day the impersonal feature of the sun—the sunlight, the sunshine. But which is important, the sunshine is important or the sun is important? Daily we see. The sunshine is spread all over the universe, very big. But what is the use of this big, if there is no sun globe?

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The body is always defective. Either child's body or your body or my body, it is always defective without the soul and it is effective with the soul. This is the conclusion. Therefore Arjuna was chastised by Kṛṣṇa that "You are giving stress on the body. This kind of conception is for the fools." Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase: (BG 2.11) "You are talking like a very learned man, but a learned man knows always that this body is defective, either living or dead." The same body. Dead means the soul is not there, and living means the soul is there. The two conditions, effective and defective, is depending on the soul. The soul is important. You have to understand what is that soul. That is knowledge. Tattva-jñānārtha-darśanam. To understand the truth, what is the truth there, that without something this body is dead, no more value, and with that something the body is so valuable. So one who is intelligent, he'll try to find out what is that truth.

Morning Walk -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hari-śauri: These church fathers that we've just done on the philosophy book, they are simply speculating about what was in the original Bible.

Prabhupāda: No clear conception, scientific idea. Therefore educated persons, they are not interested. "God, give us daily bread." They will say, "Why we shall go to church for begging bread? We can manufacture it, large quantity." (laughs) Why they should go? Formality: "God, give us our daily bread." "Just open a big factory and eat as much bread as we like. Why should we go to God?" (break) ...Jawaharlal Nehru, he took this view, that "For economic development why should you go to the temple, ask this demigod, that demigod, 'Give me this. Give me this'? Develop industry and get money to enjoy." That is his.... (break)...description of God in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam begins: janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ sva-rāṭ (SB 1.1.1). This is God, the origin of everything. Who is there who can challenge this explanation, "The origin of everything"? Now, what is that origin? Whether it is matter or sentient? No. Janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś ca abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). He knows everything. Therefore He's a person.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). This is in Sanskrit, or, you know, ahaṁ mameti. Aham means I, and mama means mine. This is the illusion. Ato gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). Gradually.... First of all, there is attraction, male and female, puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etam. The whole material world existing on sex attachment. Puṁsaḥ means male, and striyā means female. Their attachment. Even before marriage or unity, the attachment is there. Puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etaṁ tayor mithaḥ. And when they actually unite, hṛdaya-granthim āhuḥ, the hard knot in the heart, hard knot. Then after unity.... If, suppose one is married or united, then they want apartment, gṛha, then field. Formerly they used to earn money by producing food from the field. There was no factory. So ato gṛha-kṣetra, then children, then friends, then accumulation of money, ato gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittaiḥ (SB 5.5.8). With all these things, the conception of "I" and "mine" increases, and he becomes entangled.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Just like a school. A school is open for everyone. Whoever wants to take up education, he can come.

Scheverman: I can understand that very well, because I have been a teacher for many years, and also the principal of the school, and can understand your educational concepts and the importance of them. You cannot operate a school without discipline, without training. People cannot use their brains useless they are in order.

Prabhupāda: No, there must be proper training.

Kern: God consciousness..., would you explain something of the religious experience of God consciousness?

Prabhupāda: No, God consciousness is the highest level. It is not possible for everyone. But in whatever platform he is, if there is cooperation with God consciousness movement, then he gets the result. Just like in this body.... Same example: leg's duty is different and brain duty is different, hand's duty is different, belly's duty different, but when there is cooperation, all the parts of the body derive the same benefit.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: We cannot get many followers. Because everyone is under this impression, "I am this body." And to get him released from this conception is not so easy job. So we cannot expect many thousands and millions. Only selected fortunate people will understand it. But everyone can understand it. It is very simple thing. But the modern education has made them so dull brain, they cannot understand, neither do they try to understand. That is the difficulty. Matter, subject matter, is very simple thing. I am changing bodies, but in spite of my change of body, I am the spirit soul existing. This is the first understanding. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), that I am not dead on account of my body being finished. My childhood body is finished, my boyhood body is finished, my youth-hood body is finished, but I am existing. I can remember that I was in such body, I was in such body, in such circumstances. When I was a child I was talking like this, I was jumping like this. But because that body is finished, I cannot do that. Now I have got a different body, I cannot jump like a child. This simple truth. But I know that I was jumping. That is not dream, that's a fact. But we are educated in such a foolish way that we cannot understand this simple truth. That has to be amended. Otherwise, there is no question of enlightenment in the human society.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: So many people, we have nothing to do with so many people. If you are actually servant of God, so God is there, you are servant. So your transaction is there. Just to carry out the orders of God. That's all. Why do you want mysticism? Just to show some jugglery to the people? You serve God. That's all. And it is very simple thing, what God orders. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Where is the question of mysticism? There is no question of mysticism. God says "Just always think of Me. Offer your obeisances and worship Me." That's all. Where is the need of mysticism? It is all jugglery.

Indian man: I tell you, I think there's a wrong conception.

Prabhupāda: You think in your way. There is no meaning in your thinking unless you come to the line.

Indian man: No, sir. There's a wrong conception, that mysticism. They say it comes with the spiritual advancement. I think that's what he's getting at.

Prabhupāda: The problem is that we are suffering in this material world life after life, and our aim is how to again go back to home, back to Godhead. That they do not know. They are showing some mysticism. Stop death. Then I shall see your mysticism.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ. "I'm not there." So this is conception of God. Nothing can exist without God. But that does not mean everything is God. We have to understand this philosophy.

Indian man: I just want to ask..., Bhaktisiddhānta Prabhu, Bhaktisiddhānta your spiritual master. How you spent the days, your young age, with Bhaktisiddhānta?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Indian man: Yes. Bhaktisiddhānta, your spiritual master.

Prabhupāda: Young age? I was not with him. I was householder. But I used to meet with him. I was following his instructions. (break) ...valley? (indistinct) valley? No.

Viśvakarmā: That's another section, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That verse, can anyone remember? Yatra yogeśvaraḥ kṛṣṇaḥ? Huh?

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Just like to eat anything and everything. It is different association. You go to the restaurant, you eat the intestine of pig. I've seen it. Is that anything eatable? But you have learned it on account of association. Karaṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgos 'sya. And if he remains with the Kṛṣṇa conscious, he eats kachorīs, samosā, prepared by Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja. (laughter) It is due to association. By bad association he'll have to eat up to the stool. Then?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "One has to rise therefore above the three material modes and become situated in the transcendental position. This is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Unless one is situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, his material consciousness will oblige him to transfer from one body to another because he has material desire since time immemorial, but he has to change that conception."

Prabhupāda: That is material desire, how to become master. From different types, he's trying to become master. Just like in the morning the dogs are barking. He's also master, thinking "Why you are coming here?" Whatever little power he's got, he's asserting his mastership: "Don't come here." The same mentality.

Prabhupada Visits Palace and Garden -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Simple thing. And then live comfortably, eat comfortably, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Comfortably does not mean satisfaction of the senses. Comfortably means we require primary necessities, to eat something, to sleep somewhere or have some sex—this is also bodily need—and to defend, that's all. These are the primary necessities. That can be arranged anywhere. God has given all facilities. Grow your own food, eat, and live anywhere. Just this place was rough like that, now it is handled nicely, it is very attractive. (Bengali) Any damn place, you cleanse it, it becomes home. And any nasty man, you decorate him, he becomes a bridegroom. (laughs) (Bengali) (japa) Let Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement give this sense to these rascals. They do not know how to adjust things. They simply plan their United Nations, but they do not know what is that plan. Yes. United Nations. First of all why nation? Why manufacture nation and create trouble and again ununited? Nation—this word is not there in the Vedic language. There's no conception of nation. There is conception of varṇāśrama, everywhere. Not for any particular nation or any particular country, but everyone, according to quality-first-class men, second-class men, third-class men. That is there everywhere. Everywhere you go, you find some people first-class intelligent, some people less than him, some people less than him, up to fourth class, that's all. And then fifth class. So everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Now you try to implement. Perfect human life. Let any sociologist, politician come forward. We shall convince them that this is only way. Why you are wasting time and barking dog in the United Nations for the last forty years and doing nothing? What I said, barking dogs? You have read it? I accused them as barking dogs, Melbourne, and they published in the paper. Actually, this is the fact.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That is the rascaldom. That is rascaldom. Just like in prison house, if a prisoner thinks that he can do whatever he likes, that is rascaldom. That is going on. The modern civilization is rascaldom. He is seeing practically that he's under the control of material nature, and still he thinks that "I can do whatever I like." This is rascaldom.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The Christian conception of salvation was more one of being saved from hell rather than an attraction for some transcendental reality.

Prabhupāda: Christian conception... Mass of people, they do not know what is hell because they are living in the hell already. That was the story. When hell was described, he was undisturbed, but when he was informed that there was no newspaper in hell then he became... "Horrible. How one can live there without newspaper?" So so far hellish condition is there now... Pradyumna, where is Pradyumna Mahārāja?

Kuladri: He is showering.

Prabhupāda: He was describing about that factory. So they are working in the factory, what do they care for hell? Even if we go to hell, they will get some good salary, that's all. Money required, then I can drink nicely. The standard is there. Now this qualification, abhayaṁ sattva-saṁśuddhir, what is that? It does not strike them at all, these qualities are high qualities. Is it not? This is the... What is the translation?

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: They have no conception of God, and they are preaching religion. What is that religion? That will be misused. Religion means dharmaṁ tu sāksād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Religion means God's order. If there is no God, where is religion? This is going on. They have no conception of God. What is God they do not know, and professing some religion. How long it will go on artificially? It will deteriorate. That has become the present condition. They have no idea of God, and how they will know what is the order of God? And religion means order of God. Just like law means order of the state. Law means order of the state. So if there is no state, where is the order? You can manufacture your own order. That is going on. There is no conception of God. We have got clear conception of God. Here is God, Kṛṣṇa. And He's giving orders. We accept it. And it is clear religion. And if there is no God, no conception of God, no order of God, then where is religion? If there if no government, then where is law? Outlaw. Everyone is outlaw. That is going on. Ask any religious system what is the conception of God. Can anyone tell clearly? Nobody can say. We shall immediately say, veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda-dalāyatākṣaṁ barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda-sundarāṅgam (Bs. 5.30). Aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti... immediately description, "Here is God." Then there is religion. And if there is no God, where is religion? Bogus. Therefore declining. They have no conception of God, and therefore there is no understanding of religion. Therefore it is declining. So this is the cause of declining. And because it is declining, human being becoming more animals. Animal means there will be no memory. A dog comes... Here is some eatables. He comes. I say, "Hut!" He goes away. Again he comes. No memory. So when this memory is reducing that means human quality is reduced. So in the Kali-yuga these eight things will reduce. That means they are becoming like cats and dogs. This is the answer to the first question.
Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So then, is it true then that people who have this conception, they would not try for progress?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Progress... The thing is that if you try progress vainly, what is the use of trying? If it is a fact you cannot change your destiny, so why should you try for that? Better... That is the... Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta. Therefore whatever energy you have got, you utilize it for understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Make it clear. Just like our society. We are, our main business is how to make advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are not very enthusiastic to open big, big factories and big, big money-earning machine. No. We are not interested. We'll be satisfied with the amount of happiness or distress, whatever we are destined. Let us utilize our energy for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the point. So the Vedic civilization is meant for realization of God. Viṣṇur aradhyate. So they try for that. And now, at the present moment.... Actually, the varṇāśrama-dharmi, they never tried for economic development. You'll find in India still, thousands of men taking bath in the Ganges. In the Kumbhamela... You have been in Kumbhamela?

Devotee: No.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Prajño dharmaṁ bhāgavatan iha. That is recommended. They are not lazy. They are so busy that want to begin the business from the very childhood. So it is a wrong conception that they are lazy.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So then if this is false that actually they're not...

Prabhupāda: they do not know what is the aim of life. They think that "they are not racing like dog; therefore, they are lazy." But they are busy, very busy, from the childhood. But they have no eyes to see what is, business means.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The second point is, in connection with this question, that there's a certain class of people in India—he describes them as being advanced, well-meaning and highly educated people in India today—that they're accusing Hinduism of inhibiting progress and he wants to know why is this.

Prabhupāda: That is explained. They do not know what is progress. The Vedic civilization is not interested in this so-called false progress. Just like from hut to skyscraper. They think this is progress. But the Vedic civilization thinks how much he is advanced in self-realization. Either he is in cottage or in skyscraper. But if he wastes his time to turn the huts into skyscrapers, then the whole life is finished. And next time he is going to be a dog. He does not know. That's all.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So far Vedic religion is concerned, it is not for the Hindus. That is to be understood. The sanātana-dharma. It is for all living entities, all human beings. It is called sanātana-dharma. That I have already explained. The living entity is sanātana, God is sanātana, and there is sanātana-dharma. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). And where Kṛṣṇa is described sanātana in the Eleventh Chapter. Do you remember? He is described as sanātana. Sanātanam. So actually, the Vedic system is called sanātana-dharma. Not Hindu dharma. This is a wrong conception. The sanātana-dharma is meant for all living entities, not the so-called Hindus, Muslims, Christians. For everyone. That is sanātana-dharma. These are later misconceptions, Hinduism and this ism, that ism, that ism. Actually, it is called sanātana-dharma, or varṇāśrama-dharma. That is meant for everyone. But because it was being followed regularly in India and Indians were called by the Muslims on the other side of the River Sind, or Sindu, and they pronounce Sind as Hind. Therefore they called India as Hindustan, means on the other side of Sindu, or Hindu River. Otherwise, it has no Vedic reference. So this Hindu dharma has no Vedic reference. The real Vedic dharma is sanātana-dharma, varṇāśrama-dharma. First of all he has to understand this. Now that sanātana-dharma, or Vedic dharma, being distorted, not being obeyed, not being carried properly, it has come to the understanding of Hinduism. That is a freak understanding. That is not real understanding. We have to study sanātana-dharma or varṇāśrama-dharma. Then we'll understand what is Vedic religion.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But it cannot be done. This is another foolishness. Because Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). But the difficulty is the caste system is coming on account of false notion that a brāhmaṇa is the son of a brāhmaṇa. That is caste system. But Kṛṣṇa does not say. He says, "By quality and work." He never says, "By birth." So this so-called castism in India that is a false notion of cātur-varṇyaṁ. Real cātur-varṇyaṁ means guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. One must be qualified. And how one is qualified? That is also described. Satya śamo damo titikṣva ārjava jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam. So there must be education. It is not that to abolish the caste system which is contaminated by false conception, or birth right conception. This wrong caste system should be abolished and training centers should be opened how to train a person to become brāhmaṇa or to become kṣatriya. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. So you cannot avoid it, but because you have misconceived the caste system, that should be abolished, and the system recommended by Kṛṣṇa, that should be taken. Otherwise you cannot avoid it. Caste system will remain. Just like truthfulness.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So if he's eternal fragmental parts, how he can become one with the whole? The part is never equal to the whole. That is axiomatic truth. This is wrong conception, to become like God. The Māyāvādīs, they are trying to become God. That is impossible. They... Let them remain godly. Godly means servant of God. That will make him perfection, his life perfect. Vaiṣṇava philosophy is to remain, to act as servant of God. That is perfect. And if the servant tries to become like the master, that is artificial. Although in the spiritual world there is no difference between the master and the servant... Just like the boys, Kṛṣṇa's cowherd boy friends, they do not know Kṛṣṇa is God. They are playing with Him on equal terms. When Kṛṣṇa is defeated in the play He has to take His friend on His shoulder and he rides on the shoulder. So there is no such distinction who is God and who is not God. So that is spiritual conception. But the difference is always there. God and the part and parcel. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. We can attain that position after many, many lives' pious activities. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: These boys are playing with Kṛṣṇa. Who is Kṛṣṇa? He is the essence of Brahma-sukha, Param Brahman. So these boys are playing with Param Brahman. Itthaṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtyā dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para-daivatena. And for the devotees He's the supreme master, and for the ordinary man He is ordinary child. But these other children who are playing, they have got this position kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. "After many, many births' pious activities, now I have got this position, playing with Kṛṣṇa on equal terms." So this is the conception of devotional service, that when you go to the Goloka Vṛndāvana you cannot distinguish.... But they have got unflinching love for Kṛṣṇa. That is Vṛndāvana life. The cows, the calves, the trees, the flowers, the water, the elderly men, Nanda Mahārāja and Yaśodāmayī, everyone is attached, central point is Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is loving Kṛṣṇa. And there is no such knowledge that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality.... Sometimes they see Kṛṣṇa's wonderful activities and they talk on: "Kṛṣṇa may be some demigod. He has come here."
Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is already taken, already explained. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. The atheist class and theist class, they will exist always. This is material world. Even at home the father is atheist, Hiraṇyakaśipu, and the son is theist. So even at home the father and the son different. So that atheist class and theist class men will always exist in family, in community, in nation, in the... as you go on. But the theist class should take to the proposition of the Bhagavad-gītā and take shelter at his lotus feet, giving up so-called religious principles. That is oneness. Religion without conception of God, conception of God is humbug, bogus. Religion means to accept the order of God. So if you have no conception of God, if you do not know who is God, so there is no question of accepting His order. It is stated in the Vedic literature dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Find out this verse in the Sixth Canto. (break) ...Yamarāja's instruction.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So these people, these mahājanas, they know what is the principles of religion. Religion means bhagavata-dharma, to understand God and our relationship with God. That is religion. You may call it Hindu religion or Muslim religion or Christian religion, but real religion is that which teaches how to love God. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). If by following the religious system, you come to the platform of loving God, then your religious system is perfect. Otherwise it is a simply waste of time, bogus religion, without conception of God. So unless one understands what is God and what He says, and we have to abide by that order, then we are religious and there is religion and there is God, there is everything complete.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But we have to see by the result. The result is... Only platform, that only platform, that is decided... Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ. That is actually religion. How? Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. If one has learned how to love God. If there is no love of God, then what is the use of claiming that this is the only platform? Where is the sign of love of Godhead? That is to be seen. Simply if you say... Everyone will say, "This, my, this property is the best, or my understanding is..." But there must be practical proof. The practical proof-say how to love God, what is the process of loving God? If you do not know your relationship with God and other's relationship with God, then how you know God? That is lacking. Nobody can give clear conception of God. Can the Christians give? Then where is love of God? If you have no understanding of what is God, where is the question of love? Love is not fictitious. You cannot love air. You love a person, a beautiful person, a beautiful woman. If you say, "I love air. I love the sky..." Where there is question of love?There must be a person. So who is that person we want to love? But they have no personal conception of God, neither they can describe the personal beauty, capacity, strength, ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇaḥ. There is no such description. So they have got the conception of God, but actually they do not know what is God. But religion means you must know God and love Him. That is religion. That is first class religion. Is that clear or not?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Are these actually the tangible signs by which one can judge what is real religion?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Real religion is how to love God. And love cannot be done without knowing the person whom you love. That is the criterion, test. So if you have no conception, God, His personality, then how you'll love? Where is the question of love? Love is something tangible. It is not fictitious. So we accept, Kṛṣṇa conscious people, Kṛṣṇa is God, and we are worshiping Kṛṣṇa. And we are making progress. Just see our behavior and other persons behavior and judge. Hm? What do you think?

Kulādri: We had one priest who came. He was discussing with Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja. He did not know what God looked like, he never gave anything, never talked about God, but he said he loved God.

Prabhupāda: Then? What kind of love it is?

Kulādri: Nor did he say his people ever came to church. He said, "At best they come once a week." He said that's all that is necessary.

Prabhupāda: Well, love does not mean that you come once in a week at my house. Love means you come to my house, give me some presentation, and take something from me. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti bhuṅkte bhojayate caiva ṣaḍ-vidhaṁ prīti-lakṣaṇam. Love means if you love somebody, then you must give him something, you must accept something from him. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti. You must disclose your mind to him and he should disclose his mind to you. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati, and bhuṅkte bhojayate. If you love somebody, you give him something eatable and whatever eatable he offers you accept.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There is one more question, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Question 21. "Are changes visible in Hinduism in its doctrinal content, mode of individual and collective worship as a result of Hinduism's contact with the West?"

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are worshiping... This is... First of all, you must forget that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not Hinduism. It is Vaiṣṇavism. Vaiṣṇava means Viṣṇu is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and one who loves Viṣṇu or loves God, he is Vaiṣṇava. So Hinduism is not like that. Present conception of Hinduism, they have got so many demigods. Demigods are there in the Vedas, but demigod worshipers, they are all materialistic persons. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajanti anya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). Those who are worshiper of demigods, they are lusty. Kāmuka. And the kāmuka platform is material world, lusty. Everyone is trying to enjoy sense gratification. So demigod worship is for sense gratification. If you worship Durga, then you pray, "Mother Durga, give me name, fame, wealth, good wife, and so on, so on." Dhanaṁ dehi rūpaṁ dehi rūpavati-bhāryaṁ dehi. Simply demanding for sense gratification. So that is not love of Godhead.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: If that was the system, people will not get sick. They will not get sick from eating old animals.

Prabhupāda: No, no. This is all wrong conception.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: They will say..., simply think the taste there is too tough, the skin may be older.

Prabhupāda: They are eating so many rotten things.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Yes. And they are burning it, cooking it.

Prabhupāda: Lobster, it is simply pus. They eat. I've seen it. From whiteness it has become yellow. Puslike. They eat it, what is called that soup? Lobster soup?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Clam chowder? So many things.

Prabhupāda: But they like very much that lobster soup. In the plane, one Englishman was doing "What is this? I asked after lobster soup."

Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: This is religion. Personal conception of God.

Hari-śauri: And then "5. action that one is bound to do."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is there. Any one of them you take. That's good idea, but special conception of personal God, huh? What is that?

Hari-śauri: "Human recognition of superhuman controlling power and especially of a personal God entitled to obedience."

Prabhupāda: That's all, clear. What are the other items?

Hari-śauri: Then, "the effect of such recognition on conduct and mental attitude." And then "action that one is bound to do."

Prabhupāda: One is bound to do. Dharmena hina paśubhiḥ samana. If he does not do, then he's animal. It must be done. There is no question of optional. If you are human being, you must be religious, you must recognize the supreme controller. Otherwise, you are animal. What is the other interpretations? Beginning one?

Hari-śauri: "Monastic condition, being a monk or a nun."

Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Just stick to this principle, then you will be successful. Bhakti śreyaḥ śrutim. That is the real welfare. Śreyaḥ śrutim means "expands auspicity." (apparently talking about a picture) And they want to become one with God. And here is not one, but God is so lower that He carries the shoe of His devotee. Have they got any conception like this? (laughs)

Hari-śauri: They are always talking about...

Prabhupāda: There is a verse śruti mahāpure śruti mahāpure. You know this?

Pradyumna: Śruti apare?

Prabhupāda: Śruti mahāpure. (indistinct) yasya linde paraṁ brahma. "Let others worship the śrutis and others smṛtis, all these Vedic literature, and others Mahābhārata for liberation. But I shall worship Nanda Mahārāja, because in his courtyard the Param Brahmā is loitering. I shall worship Nanda Mahārāja. He's so powerful that he's made the Param Brahman come here and carry his shoes." Śruti mahāpure (indistinct) yasya linde paraṁ brahma.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Cādara will be too heavy. Here, take this.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now most of these slides will appear in our book, the origin of life and matter, Life Comes From Life. Now Sadāpūta and myself made these slides. These are some of the... Only a few slides. We specifically want comments from your Divine Grace Śrīla Prabhupāda, whether these slides will be appropriate to be in the book. Now this is the philosophy between the difference between life and matter. So this is sāṅkhya philosophy. The principles and the philosophy, as Śrīla Prabhupāda comments in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in the Third Canto, the sāṅkhya philosophy is especially meant for persons who are conditioned by this material world, and by understanding the science of devotional service and sāṅkhya philosophy, one can become free from the modes of material nature. So we want to impose that in order to understand the distinction between life and matter, one must at least have a glimpse of the Absolute Truth, at least some idea of the Absolute Truth. Otherwise, it is completely impossible to understand the difference between what is life and what is matter. That is why scientists nowadays are so much confused about the concept of life and matter. So in fact the scientist Orgell, in his book The Origin of Life, he starts with saying "What is life? The question 'What is life?' should not be inquired." He says...

Prabhupāda: One minute. That Absolute Truth is explained in the Vedānta-sūtra, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Absolute Truth is that from whom everything comes into existence, everything emanates. Now that has been discussed in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, because Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the natural commentary by the same author. So he begins janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). This word is used. He's not dead body, dead matter-abhijñaḥ, like that. In the beginning.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Irresponsible life.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, meaninglessness. No meaning. So it has no purpose because of this very concept. So at least there's a strong influence, especially in the colleges and the university circles, the students...

Prabhupāda: Educational circles. Yes. In the education circles they are made fools. Education means he's a more fool, that's all. That is education. Mūḍha. Māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. These fools and rascals, their actual knowledge is taken away, and they are coming out as educated. That we are protesting.

Hari-śauri: You once called them slaughterhouses. Slaughterhouses of education.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes, I have said, yes. Means whatever little education he has, that is also finished.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So, by the mercy of His Divine Grace, if we can eliminate this theory then we can establish Kṛṣṇa consciousness on firm scientific basis.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is there. My order there.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So he believed actually completely in the divine concept, divine personality. But unfortunately this experiment has been misinterpreted by these demoniac scientists.

Prabhupāda: That is also Vedic conception, that sex between man and woman is not the cause of life. Unless the living soul comes in the proper situation, the man's secretion, woman's secretion combined together emulsifies, and it creates a proper situation for the rest of the soul. So contraceptive method means that emulsification is disturbed. It does not create the proper situation; therefore pregnancy does not happen. Or imperfect discharge. The main point is that the two discharges, they create a situation wherein the living entity comes and rests. Then it will grow. Not that that is the cause of life. The mixture of two secretions is not the cause of life. That creates a proper situation, and the life comes. And if the situation is not favorable, the soul cannot stay. It has to go to somewhere else. So by the order of Kṛṣṇa, he was to come to take shelter there, but this man and woman checked it, therefore it is sinful; he is to be punished. Just like one apartment is fixed up for me, and if somebody checks, does not allow me to enter, that is criminal.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes, and He... If somebody says how the atoms are working like that, the Kṛṣṇa's..., Brahmā says, aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. He is within the atom also, the Supreme. Therefore it is acting so nice. Eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad-aṇḍa-koṭim (Bs. 5.35). Whole material world is going on under His direction, and He is acting within the atom also. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. As He is directing this cosmic arrangement, similarly He is directing from the atom, within the atom also. That is omnipotency.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we want to develop these concepts and prove...

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa will help you.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now later on, when Sadāpūta speaks, there will be similar concepts, but that is applied to the human platform called inspiration-inspiration and proving the existence of Paramātmā, Supersoul. Actually, it ties together very well. Even from the molecular level we can see this, and in the human platform actually it is very vividly,...

Prabhupāda: Manifested.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We can feel it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). That is the fact. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So these are some of the chemical concepts that I described earlier. Next Sadāpūta will take over, and he'll describe the mathematical and physical concepts of proving the existence of Paramātmā.

Prabhupāda: Yes, do it.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Would you like to (indistinct) tonight Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Why not? What business we have got? (laughter)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Shall I offer it for you?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: He has become astrologer. (laughter)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we thought, now, the biologists have a difficult time in defining species. It's not very clear, the way they do it. Now we want to bring up the concept that the, by the combination of the three modes of material nature produce all these different varieties of species. We say 8,400,000. And on that line...

Prabhupāda: 8,400,000.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, now along that line, we want to make a nice chart on...

Prabhupāda: Chart is already there, jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi, nine hundred thousand species. Not species, forms.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is on a human platform, but we wanted to appeal purely on a scientific level to the scientists. Now in order to bring these concepts that these three modes of nature, because of mixing of these three modes of nature it produces different species, varieties of species... Now this is completely unknown to them. They have no idea about these modes. So somehow we thought if we bring some specific examples like this, that looking the products of nature as a source, not worrying about transcendental or not, (microphone rattling)

Prabhupāda: What is the use of such things? If you particularly study that this living entity is now in this mode, say goodness fifty percent and passion ten percent, in this way, but it can change at any moment. You cannot fix it up.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is good, because if we argue this we can always defeat this concept of evolution. Our main point is to defeat the concept of evolution.

Prabhupāda: No, no, evolution is already there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Evolution means material evolution, from chemicals.

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is not evolution. The species are already there, 8,400,000. Now the living entity is changing the position. The status is already there.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The question is, now we want to argue that how is it possible, now you are claiming that life is coming from molecules? If you claim like that, then how is it possible that in the same species, let's say in the birds, that these qualities are spreading? Some birds we see behave like a little influenced by the modes of goodness, though it is mixed. Like swan, we are taking that example. But some are like eagle, very passionate, wants to kill small birds as their food, and on the other hand, birds like crows, they like just to be completely ignorant, or they like to survive in a dirty environment. Why? Is this possible just from the concept of molecular evolution? It's completely, it's failing. They have no explanation along those terms. So we thought to bring up these points, it will be very clear that this evolution is completely wrong. So we want to use that...

Prabhupāda: There is no question of evolution. It is already there. This is a wrong theory. The monkey is there, the man is there. The soul is going from monkey to man. It is not the evolution. Just like you have got apartment, ten rupees, five rupees, twenty rupees, thirty rupees, like that. Now, as you pay, "Come on, here." There is no question of evolution. It is already there. Jantur dehopapattaye. These dehas, these bodies, are already there. So immediately it develops a particular type of desire, "Yes, come here, sit down." First class, second class, third class, fourth class is already there. As you pay, "Yes, come here." It is not evolving; it is already there. He is transferred from one apartment to another. This has to be convinced. We don't find that monkey's body became a human body. That is not in the experience, anyone.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, the three modes induces chemical composition. Then RN, DNA (laughs)...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But this is very unique in science itself. It's a very novel concept just from scientific level.

Devotee: The scientists have a desire to explain things. They like to see that you can explain so many different things. Perhaps it doesn't have any real utility to explain,

Prabhupāda: So, as far as possible, you can give explanation from Bhāgavatam. Otherwise, how you can...

Devotee: So by giving these examples then they might think this has very good explanatory power, and they will therefore accept it, they will (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: So the general division in the higher planetary system is the devatās, beginning from sun, moon and other planetary systems, they are in modes of goodness prominent. Less, below that, bhūr bhuvaḥ, they are passionate, and below that, they are ignorant.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is also existing in the sense that in the unmanifested form, before it is manifested, the form is there.

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is species. Form is there already. They are existing. So you require to get another form, but the same class. First-class compartment is there. If it is, one bogey is already, first-class filled up, then railroad company brings another bogey and gives place to the passengers. That's all, there is no difficulty. What is the difficulty? Put him into this particular mother's womb and he gets a form, that's all. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). Don't compare Kṛṣṇa's power with your power. He can do anything, anyone, immediately.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So called Acintya. (pause) What is the biological concept of species?

Sadāpūta: All they can do is base it on the similarity of what the animals look like. They have trouble counting species. Śrīla Prabhupāda? Are there different meanings, this day of Brahmā? Are there different creations and annihilations of species? Different Manus, they are sometimes flooding the whole earth.

Prabhupāda: There are different, when Brahmā goes to sleep, that is one kind of devastation, and when he dies there is one kind. And during Brahmā's days there are other devastations, manvantara.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be. Why reflection not come in our Sahara desert? Why you don't see such reflection in the Sahara desert so that the whole world may be illuminated?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is also going to be very critical.

Prabhupāda: Which one?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This moon is farther away than the sun. That brings a whole new concept that poses some problem.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In speaking (at) colleges and universities. The other day when you spoke there, we were not speaking about astronomy, you were speaking of the origin of life, and these people, outsiders, they already had the concept to raise up that question. So without any connection they brought up. So the question was, "Whatever you present is very nice, fine, but what about the moon? Do you believe that the moon is farther away than the sun?"

Prabhupāda: But they have already...?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, they already studied, they are ready to ask those things, and they say, "Just give me an answer, yes or no."

Prabhupāda: They asked you? They asked you?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So what did you answer?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We said yes, but our explanation was much (indistinct) in the sense that we said you have to study this more carefully, but we tried to remark the concept that now we are conditioned to believe certain things.

Prabhupāda: Now, how they heard that we are believing in this way?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: From Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: From Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And sometimes devotees go around the colleges and sometimes they say, "What you are doing is all wrong, the moon is far away." So I think this is spread all over.

Prabhupāda: But that is a fact.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) He got this Sūrya-siddhānta, Siddhānta Sarasvatī. He was very expert astrologer.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we were thinking that there must be some more information there.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) There are (in) Calcutta many... Some of them still, living or dead I do not know. But in India, in Benares you'll find many astrologers. You said in your book that the sun is the nearest planet?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, I didn't say that. We actually took the concept of the... I wasn't talking much there, saying that there is one star, the sun is the nearest star.

Prabhupāda: Nearest star.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So that means near star, nearest, which relationship, with the earth?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: With the other stars.

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: With the other stars.

Prabhupāda: Other stars? Nearest means?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: To the earth.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: This is one universe.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So actually what they call solar system, science doesn't call it one universe. The concept of universe is very vast.

Prabhupāda: That is not vast. Our concept...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, our conception is solar system, actually. The solar system is one universe.

Prabhupāda: Solar? There is no solar system. The ninth, I mean planets.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Solar system, what they mean, the science, the sun, and these planets that we know, consists of, comprises our Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam universe, concept of the universe.

Prabhupāda: Yes, the (indistinct) is a big affair, the sun is one of the important planets. Not only the sun, moon, Mars, Jupiter, everyone.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Bill Sauer: I've talked to your people, and I think there's pretty much agreement on the fundamental philosophical concept.

Dr. Sharma: There's something magnetic about it, something creative which comes from inside.

Prabhupāda: Where is our scientist?

Vipina: Svarūpa Dāmodara-could you get him?

Hari-śauri: I already sent somebody for him, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I don't think he's here.

Prabhupāda: He's not here.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: That is good. But how you can say there is no God, everything is science? And misleading people. That must be stopped. You take credit as much as you have done. That we are ready to give you. Because you have created one airplane, 747, therefore you can do everything, if you give... Like that, that is misleading. That we cannot...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, once that very concept that they will be able to do all these things, if that is removed, then they come on the platform as...

Prabhupāda: Of sane man. They are talking like insane man.

Ravīndra-svarūpa(?): But that inspiration is that we can always do something bigger and better than we've done before.

Prabhupāda: But still you cannot do in the final. That is not possible. Because you are finite. You are not infinite. Your knowledge is limited. You can do something up to some extent.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: They agree, they all agree,

Prabhupāda: They are giving bluff: "Yes we shall produce life. Wait for millions of years, wait for millions." This is nonsense. Who will wait for millions of years and see your scientific discovery?

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Scientists are responsible for that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, the greatest mischief-maker, in the name of scientific knowledge. We must fight against them. Let them agree, "Yes, God is supreme." Then there is no fight. But as soon as they say that there is no need of God, science will solve everything, then they are rascal, you must expose.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Another point about this Institute, from my experience in the last few days in Washington, there were some Indians who come to the temple, and they are very favorable to the concept.

Prabhupāda: Include such members. Let them...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yesterday this Sharma, Dr. Sharma, he came, and he's going to come this evening, he's quite well known as a scientist.

Prabhupāda: Medical man?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, he's not medical man, but he has two or three Ph.D.'s in two, three different fields. In engineering, in chemistry and in pathology.

Vṛṣākapi: He's becoming a life member, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That pathologist.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: That pathologist.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. He works in National Institute of Health in Washington, D.C. We was telling me he was from Haridwar from a very pious family, and he said his parents are Vaiṣṇavas, and he has been thinking since from his childhood about this problem about life, the origin of life and consciousness, and we talked a little bit about our concept of this origin of life, connecting from the Vedas and the scientific interrelationship. And he was very much impressed, and he told me that if he can be of any help, he's willing to...

Prabhupāda: You should call him, let us.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, he's coming this evening.

Prabhupāda: All right, very good.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Therefore we shall kill father, mother. You kill vegetables, therefore I shall kill my father and mother. Is that reasoning?

Dr. Sharma: I have a different concept of (indistinct), if I may give: When I'll be half as good as Christ, maybe I can be permitted to eat meat.

Prabhupāda: No, take the example of Christ. But because he ate fish, so because we eat vegetables, therefore a good cause for eating father and mother? For killing child?

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, they say that only the human has a soul, therefore it's wrong to kill humans. But other animals you can kill because there is no soul. That is their argument.

Devotee (3): They'll ask what should be killed and what shouldn't be killed for eating? Where do we draw the line?

Prabhupāda: No, you, we are speaking go-rakṣya. That is not point of view of killing. There are other animals. We do not say that you stop. If you want to eat some meat, at least don't kill cow. You can kill other insignificant animals which has no importance. Cow has got special importance because it supplies milk, and milk is very essential food that is... From the childhood, a child lives on milk, and there are many saintly persons, they also live by drinking milk. Milk is very important item in the human society, and it supplies all vitamins. Even if you say that "Meat-eating is essential for me," you can eat other animals, but don't kill cows. That is our proposal.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: My feelings is that even if they make these chemicals, the spirit is never going to come in that medium. Otherwise...

Prabhupāda: No, because it comes by superior order, not by your order. Daiva-netreṇa.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So that's good that now science is trying that in about fifty years or so, at the turn of the century, they have a strong hope that they will be able to understand the meaning of life from this chemical concept. But when they see that that's not possible, then they have to come around that what they thought was completely illusion. In that case, our...

Prabhupāda: Case will be strong.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes, then everybody will accept.

Prabhupāda: You can challenge that "You cannot do it."

Rūpānuga: You once said that because people are becoming more educated and scientific-minded, they are rejecting these religions. So similarly, because they are becoming more educated and scientific minded...

Prabhupāda: So-called educated, they are becoming fools.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So how it is fact? You cannot do. So what is the fact?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are cheating. There is also a big man in Bombay who is working on this line. He's a member of this International Society for the Study of the Origin of Life. Now they call... In fact, they use a Sanskrit word for this life coming from chemicals, they call jīvana particles of life. So they are also catching this idea that life is nothing but molecules. So along with this article, they are also writing from Bombay. So actually it is worldwide, all over, this concept. In India I think a little more interesting to give seminars along these lines. In India in the universities, the reaction of the... My feeling is that it will be different.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. So do it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like that Dr. Sharma, who came yesterday, he's very much along our thought.

Prabhupāda: Who wrote the book?

Rūpānuga: No, no, an Indian gentleman. He has several degrees in science area, and he has an important post.

Prabhupāda: Dr. Sharma?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Who came yesterday. Sanskrit, he knows Sanskrit well? From Hardwar?

Prabhupāda: Oh. So why don't you take him?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes, he's very willing to help anything along these lines.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Mūḍha. That is the general statement, mūḍha.

Cyavana: They see our movement as being material.

Prabhupāda: Because they have no other conception than material.

Cyavana: They don't see the spiritual aspect at all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They have no other conception. They can't recognize.

Prabhupāda: They have no other conception. Therefore they misunderstand.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even in India nowadays they are confused also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In Caitanya-bhāgavata there is a word, vaiṣṇavera kriyā-mudrā vijñe nā bujhāya: "The activities of a Vaiṣṇava, even the most intelligent person of this world cannot understand." Vaiṣṇavera kriyā-mudrā vijñe nā bujhāya.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: We're not working to keep people in the jail conception of life. So that's why they cannot understand what we are doing.

Interviewer: You mean you're not working for the jail life?

Bali-mardana: To keep people within the conception that life is within the jail.

Prabhupāda: Just like a man has gone to jail, he's giving education to the prisoners, "My dear brother prisoners, this life is not good, you become honest, don't come to the jail." So other prisoners, they are working hard, they are hammering on the bricks, they think that "This man is not hammering on the bricks, he's talking only."

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: The Christians cannot organize. (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You saw them. The only thing they were carrying was one sign like this. The sign said "Turn or Burn." It means turn to Jesus or burn. Turn or burn, burn in hell. That's their conception of God. Either God or burn in hell. We could give you a good rest here, also, Prabhupāda, because it's very easy to not... If the devotees could see you on Sunday, just like in the old days in Los Angeles... I mean everything could be nicely done, and you could still visit the European centers when you finally return to India. I mean they are not making such a big thing that you couldn't come later on. Oh, boy.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) Good determination.

Interview with Religion Editor of The Observer -- July 23, 1976, London:

Cline Cross: I mean, would you count Jesus Christ as gold?

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not? He's speaking about the supreme controller, God, so why should we not? Anyone who is speaking about God... (break) Religion without science or philosophy is sentiment. And philosophy without religion is mental speculation. So they must be combined together. So far the controller is concerned, this is scientific understanding. Just like the father... We consider... Why we? Everyone. Either he is Christian or Muhammadan or Hindu, the conception of God is generally accepted as the supreme father.

Cline Cross: I mean, it is a fact.

Prabhupāda: It is fact.

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Hilly.

Jayatīrtha: Hilly, and the place was originally not very nice. Everything is built from scratch.

Hari-śauri: The management in New Vrindaban is a lot more difficult as well, because they've tried to avoid machinery, so the whole concept of farming without any complicated machinery...

Prabhupāda: But they have got so many machine. In New Vrindaban there are so many machinery.

Hari-śauri: Not so much tractors and things though. They've been trying to concentrate with just oxen and things like that, so it's taken a while to develop the whole concept, whereas in Pennsylvania they're using so many machines.

Prabhupāda: No, we are not producing various things(?).

Jayatīrtha: In our Vancouver farm, because we had machinery, we were able to put more land under cultivation in the first year than they had in New Vrindaban after so many years. They were very efficient.

Bhagavān: Thing is, we should not become dependent on machine.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Bhūgarbha: Professor Chenique's suggesting that in the Middle Ages there were many philosophers who also were researching the same questions of the body of God and how His body is different from ours, and they came to exactly the same conclusions as are mentioned in the Bhāgavatam, so he's suggesting some of our devotees should read some of these books so we'll be able to in our preaching show the French people these conceptions that God has a body are not foreign conceptions, and actually even European philosophers in the Middle Ages were saying the same things.

Prabhupāda: No, you can convince by your words. It is not necessary that you have to read so many other words. If you are yourself convinced, then you can convince others by your words. The fact. The same example, when there is fire actually you can express it by any word.

Bhūgarbha: He feels that it's because he has read all these books during his youth, now he's able to appreciate Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bhūgarbha: He feels that because he read all of these other books during his youth that now he's come to the point he can appreciate Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyone who is after truth, he'll appreciate truth. That's a fact. Satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi (SB 1.1.1). That is the Bhāgavata beginning. Satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi. If one is after truth, he'll appreciate truth wherever it is. Every point, from any angle of vision, those who are searching after truth, everything is explained. Primarily in the Bhagavad-gītā, and elaborately in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So about the Christian religion, what is the conception of God?

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Atreya Ṛṣi: So your question is whether one can enter this kingdom of God with this body.

Prabhupāda: No, that is already explained—tyaktvā dehaṁ. Giving up this body, one can enter in the spiritual world. Viśate tad-anantaram—after death. By bhakti, when he's mature and he gives up this body, then he enters into the spiritual world. Tyaktvā deham, giving up this body. You cannot enter, although by devotional service the material activities of the body will stop, but you have to wait for the moment when this material body is no more existing, then with spiritual body you can enter. Tyaktvā deham, mām eti. Viśate tad-anantaram. Tad-anantaram after death. And if you have got little pinch of material attachment, then you'll have to accept another material body. So we have (to) come to the point that no more I want anything material. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). I am no more anyone's servant. I am neither American nor Iranian nor Indian nor Hindu nor Muslim, not this, not that, I'm simply servant of... That is my position. And so long I shall keep attachment for this designation, temporary... What is this Iranian, American, Indian? Say for few years. Because you have to change this body. Tyaktvā deham. Tathā dehāntaram. So after giving up this body, you have to accept another body. If I am in the next body I become a sparrow, then where is my conception of Iranian, Indian and Hindu, and Muslim? I am a sparrow. Jumping like sparrow, that's all. So these are designations, temporary designations. So one has to become free from these temporary designations. Then he's liberated. That is bhakti.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Then there is the proof of less intelligence. God is great, very good, but how He is great. What is the conception of greatness. You accept me as a spiritual master, great, so you have got some conception of greatness. That you see in your spiritual master, therefore you accept him. And if you have no conception of greatness, what is the meaning of "He is great"? Therefore the real fact is, in the world there is no religion. They do not understand what is God, what is religion. Traditional, you can say superstition or some idea, actually no clear conception of religion. No idea in the world, except that in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. All vague ideas. "God is great," that's all. How He is great and worshipable? Who is God? And our ideal is to love God. So if I do not know about God, if I do not know who is God, then where is the question of love?

Nandarāṇī: But their faith is there.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: If they understand any book, Īśopaniṣad, if they understand, they will get improvement.

Nandarāṇī: Any book. Some Bhagavad-gītās I do, but it's an exceptional Iranian who can even read the book, what to speak of understand the concepts. Īśopaniṣad is easier for them. We are very eager to translate into Persian.

Prabhupāda: Īśopaniṣad.

Nandarāṇī: Īśopaniṣad, yes. I think that will be our first big attempt. Some essays we will try to do. "Who is Crazy?" is very good for them, they appreciate that article, and...

Prabhupāda: They appreciate?

Nandarāṇī: Yes, we have explained to some of them the concepts in "Who is Crazy?" and Īśopaniṣad is a good book for them.

Prabhupāda: So your daughter is good assistant in the matter of cooking?

Nandarāṇī: Yes, they are both very good in cooking. And they clean the altar and they do some maintenance of the altar and the temple room, and they cook and sew, and I give them class in the morning, Bhagavad-gītā in English.

Prabhupāda: Yes, teach them personally. That Aniruddha is always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Ali: Sure, that is what I am practicing right now.

Prabhupāda: Yes, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The spirit soul, which is eternal, which is never lost, even by the annihilation of the body, we have to understand about that thing, that is spiritual knowledge. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā lesson. First to understand what you are, you are not this body. This is spiritual knowledge. When one understands thoroughly that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul," then he is no more Hindu, Muhammadan, or Christian or nothing. He's spirit soul, brahma-bhutaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). That is called brahma-bhutaḥ. At that time, there is no such conception, that "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this," "I am that." Because he's not body. He's not body. That is pure understanding. And then spiritual knowledge begins. So long I shall think myself as Hindu, Muslim, Christian, there is no spiritual knowledge. That is material knowledge.

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: And this body is... Either dead or alive, Bhagavad-gītā condemns, gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ (BG 2.11). So these rascals are interested with this body, and they're proud of their advancement of education. Bhagavad-gītā says nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. So they are passing as great scientists, philosophers, politicians, philanthropists, but all apaṇḍitāḥ. Nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. That means apaṇḍita. (Bengali) The first thing of Bhagavad-gītā lesson is that aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādān (BG 2.11). "Talking like a learned man, but you are rascal." Apaṇḍitaḥ. One who is not educated, he's a rascal. So He's indirectly saying, "This kind of lamentation is not for the paṇḍita. It is for the rascal." So whole world is interested with this body, and Bhagavad-gītā's teaching begins condemning the concept of body. Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Nobody knows this. And they are very learned scholars in Bhagavad-gītā. All these rascals, they're claiming to be learned scholar of Bhagavad-gītā.

Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:
Prabhupāda: So if you worship the demigods, Indra, Candra, Varuṇa-yānti deva-vratā devān—then you can go to the higher planetary system. They are trying to go to the moon planet. In that way it is not possible. You have to be qualified to go there. Not by machine, by force you can go there. That is not possible. Yānti deva-vratā devān. So... And also you can go, mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. You can go to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So we have to make choice in this human form of life. Actually, the aim should be to go back home, back to Godhead. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). Ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16). Otherwise, within this material world, even if you go to the higher planetary system, then punar āvartinaḥ, you have to come back again. Now the human form of life should be properly utilized. If we think that this life is everything, that is wrong conception of life. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to change this body. Transmigration of the soul. So by transmigration of the soul we have got this human form of life. If we properly utilize it, then we can make further progress. And if we do not, if we keep ourself as animals, then we'll degrade.
Evening Darsana -- September 1, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: No, no I am not speaking to you. Anyone.

Indian man (3): I am not trying to make a show. I believe a direct interpretation is important thing more than the other kinds of ideas and conceptions.

Pradyumna:

moghāśā mogha-karmāṇo
mogha-jñānā vicetasaḥ
rākṣasīm āsurīṁ caiva
prakṛtiṁ mohinīṁ śrītāḥ
(BG 9.12)

"Those who are thus bewildered are attracted by demoniac and atheistic views. In that deluded condition, their hopes for liberation, their fruitive activities, and their culture of knowledge are all defeated."

Prabhupāda: Go on, go on. I have given any purport?

Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation -- September 11, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And God is an Indian, that is also rascaldom. He says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). So how He's Indian? Throughout the whole universe, as many forms of body are there, He is the father. So how he is Indian? If the father is Indian, then the son is also Indian. So father is not Indian, so how the God can be Indian?

Pradyumna: Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11).

Prabhupāda: Tanum āśritam. This concept of Indian, European is there because you are a mūḍha. Just directly charge him. Directly. That "You are a mūḍha, you are a rascal," immediately. Let him speak. And send it to the newspaper that this letter we have sent challenging this rascal, let him reply. If he does not reply, silent, that means he's accepts he's a rascal.

Hari-śauri: Yes, because Blitz has taken up to advertise that he's God, so now they should accept challenge.

Pradyumna: He said self-realization is God-realization.

Prabhupāda: But you are not self-realized. You are madman, rascal. How you can be self-realized? A madman cannot be self-realized.

Letter to Sai Baba -- September 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Remain as person in the future. So without knowing all this knowledge, a mūḍha accepts the incarnation of God as coming from imperson. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). Under this heading you have proved yourself to become a mūḍha. And how a mūḍha or an ass can become the incarnation of God? Then? Read that Blitz paper, one after another.

Pradyumna: Then, this is the end of his quote and then the editor, the writer is speaking. "This may appear an extraordinarily controversial claim to those unfamiliar with the spiritual depths of Hindu religio-philosophy. The latter totally accepts the avatāra concept which broadly means the descent of the divine principle into human affairs. In the Bhagavad-gītā Lord Kṛṣṇa intervenes to say..."

Prabhupāda: That is the editor's.

Room Conversation with U.N. Doctor -- September 29, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Nirākāra means He has no material ākāra. That is nirākāra. Ākāra means we have got... Just like I have conception of you. So this ākāra is your material ākāra. It is not your real ākāra. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). The real person is within the body, but we have no connection with the real body. We see this outward... Just like seeing his dress, his... That's all.

Doctor: How to find the...? How to get to the ātman, the inner body?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the first instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, that first of all, try to understand what is the person. So because we have no eyes to see, indirectly dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāram... (BG 2.13). Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Antavanta ime dehā nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ (BG 2.18). So many things. Nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ. So many indirect way because we cannot directly perceive.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Religion means to understand God and to follow God's order. That is religion. Just like government and government law. So if the citizen understands what is the law of the government and abides by it, then he's a good citizen. Similarly, any person who understands God and abides by the order of God, then he is religious. Why do you stand? You may be Christian; I may be Hindu; he may be Mohammedan. It doesn't matter. Everyone should understand God and the relationship with God and act accordingly. Then it is perfect religion. And if there is no conception of God, no carrying out order of the God, that is not religion. That is cheating. But generally they do not accept God—still, he is stamping himself that "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian." He has no idea what is God, how to abide by His order, and they are fighting that "I am Christian and you are Hindu. Therefore we must fight." This is going on. Nobody understands what is God. Pseudo religion. Practically there is no religion. If there is no government—you make your law; I make my law—then how there will be peace? That is the position. They do not understand what is God, and "I am Christian" or "Hindu" or "Mohammedan, so let us fight." That's all.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Controller.

Dr. Kneupper: The master of the universe.

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Dr. Kneupper: Do you think that this concept is the special insight of the Vedic?

Prabhupāda: No, no. You, as a philosopher, you can understand that there is supreme controller. Can you deny it?

Dr. Kneupper: I would... Only with great difficulty, it seems to me.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is... You cannot deny. But they foolishly deny it. Therefore they are rascals. So how you can convince the rascals the right way? If you give me a dozen of dogs, can I convince him that what is God?

Dr. Kneupper: Hardly. They have no capacity to understand.

Prabhupāda: But they have no capacity. The modern civilization, we are creating dogs and hogs, so how they will understand God?

Dr. Kneupper: Do you think there will always be a few who understand?

Prabhupāda: Certainly. Unless one... But if there is a class of men, ideal, who understands God, then people will follow. We require one moon. Then the darkness will be dissipated. But if in the millions of stars, what is the use? So they are creating millions of rascals, not one sane man, the modern civilization, the so-called philosophers, so-called scientists. Don't mind. This is the fact.

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Other things, they have manufactured concoctions.

Guest (4): Maybe, but through that, you say you attain God, is it?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Guest (4): You attain God or what is the concept?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Meditation means Kṛṣṇa. He says meditation. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ: "Just concentrate your mind upon Me." This is meditation.

Guest (4): Then, in due course of time, do you see Him? Or in what form?

Prabhupāda: Yes, immediately you see Him. Kṛṣṇa's picture is there. Kṛṣṇa's picture and Kṛṣṇa is not different. So if you concentrate upon Kṛṣṇa, you immediately see Him.

Guest (4): You see Him.

Prabhupāda: Yes, immediately. But if you think Kṛṣṇa has no form, then it is difficult. Immediately. Now He says, man-manāḥ. He personally says, man-manāḥ, so where is the difficulty?

Guest (4): No, the form of the light, you see or...?

Prabhupāda: Why light? With two hands, two legs, He is speaking, man-manāḥ: "Me." Why light? Light is another feature of His existence, but He says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru. Therefore we are presenting. Mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ (BG 18.68).

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Guest (5): It can be Allah, Christ, even Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But you must know what is meaning of God. That's all. His name... Just like water. You say, "water," he says, pāni, he says, autuk (?). So water is water. Similarly, you must know what is God. Name does not matter. But Kṛṣṇa is the perfect name, Kṛṣṇa, according to Sanskrit, all-attractive. The God must be all-attractive; otherwise how He is God? That is the perfect name. Now, if you want to give another name we have no objection. There are hundreds and thousands of names, whatever you like. But it must be God's name. You must understand what is God. Then it is perfect. (aside:) Get on this light. It is scientific. It is not a religious sentiment. Why they should manufacture God? God is God. Gold is gold. And God definition is there in the Vedic literature.

aiśvaryasya samagrasya
vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ
jñāna-vairāgyayoś caiva
sannam iti bhaga...
(Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47)

Bhagavān. These are the bhagas, opulences. One who possesses all these opulences, He is God, Bhagavān. Asty arthe vatup.(?) So all opulences. God is not shortage of opulence. All opulences. All the riches. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). This is God. He is the proprietor of everything. So unless you accept this formula, how you get conception of God? God is not a proprietor of three bighās of land. Here is God, sarva-loka-maheśvaram. That is God. God is not limited. He is unlimited.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: That means you make purposefully complicated. The father is saying, "I am father." Then why you are bringing this meaning, aham means...

Indian man: No, it's that "aham" is indicated to Who? The physical posture of Kṛṣṇa which we know or the...?

Prabhupāda: Why do we say like that? Why? (shouting) Why you are bringing physical concept He is a person, He is saying. Why do you say physical, material, and this and that way. He is father.

Indian man: Because He is saying, we should accept it?

Prabhupāda: Yes, you accept. Accept, Kṛṣṇa is in your front. And why should physical, metaphysical and chemical? Kṛṣṇa is a person. A person says...

Indian man: Earth is mother...

Prabhupāda: Yes. And He says that "Earth is mother, I am the father." You have to understand it. That yes, earth is mother, because everything is coming from earth. But who has given the seed in the mother? That Kṛṣṇa says, "I am giving." Sa asṛjata sa īkṣata. This is Vedic version. And He says personally.

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They have learned it.

Indian man: No, no. Fashion. Now one thing is they can hold off the rich people in India. That is not now, but about, put it back to 1944-45, during the war time. British time. That hold has become stronger. If we do not eat West, particularly America, then we are called "uncivilized." So to prove that I am civilized, there are three things. I must speak English, my children must go to missionary or convent schools, we must adopt Western customs and etiquette, and we must adopt their eating habits. Now if I'm not accepted in the American society... Even the British is now called uncivilized comparatively. If I'm not accepted by the Americans, that, "Yes, I know the standards and I live like them or even better than them," then I am supposed to be common. This is the conception of civilization amongst the Marwaris and the Gujaratis of the richer class. Previously it used to be, as they say of ancient India, that if one did not speak Sanskrit he was supposed to be uncivilized. So now that has come out...

Prabhupāda: In our childhood, my father's generation, in Calcutta, if a gentleman does not keep a prostitute extra, he is not a respectable man.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with C.I.D. Chief -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So you expand it. A dog is thinking, "I am this body. I am bulldog," "I am greyhound." And man is also thinking, "I am American," "I am Indian." But they do not know their real identity, and they are fighting like dogs. And this is going on in the name of civilization. And when we put forward Bhagavad-gītā, the first lesson is that aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase: (BG 2.11) "Arjuna, you are talking like a very learned man, but you are lamenting about the body. But actually..." Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ: "So far the body is con..., this is lump of matter. So whether it is dead or alive, nobody seriously think of it, no learned, paṇḍita." Of course, those who are fools, rascal, they can take it. But those who are actually learned, they do not talk about this body. So upon this statement just see the world situation. Everyone is busy on the concept of body. So what is the position of the world? Apaṇḍita, ignorance. And such people are going on as learned scholars, as politicians and leaders and so on. So how there can be peace? If you bring different types of dogs, greyhound and bulldog and Indian dog and bring them—the "United Dog Association" (laughter)—so will there be peace? That is the position. I declared in Melbourne in a public meeting that this United Nation is the unity of barking dog. I told. It was published in the paper. They also criticized me, "The Swami has come to hound." (laughter) But that is actually the fact. If you become impartial judge, not on behalf of CID or anyone, then you see the actual.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: The whole Russian people, they think like that. Not whole, I don't, I cannot say but the learned, their learned professors, they think like that. The life is ended after this body. So our people also, our these politicians, they also think like that. So this is the platform of ignorance. And people are so much (indistinct), born into this ignorance. It is very, very difficult to raise them from this ignorance. This is our task. The first business is to convince him that "Your life continues." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). But it is very difficult for the modern man to understand. They have been so poorly educated that it is very difficult. But this is the first beginning of knowledge and if we are in the conception that "I am this body and the body is everything," then we are no better that the cats and dogs. So this is a movement to raise people from the platform of cats' and dogs' life. It is little difficult but we have to do it. That is our mission, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, para-upakāra. They're living like cats and dogs, do something good for them so that they may live like actual human beings.
Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: These people or that people, I don't mind.

Guest (1): Yes, sir. We have the secular India concept.

Prabhupāda: Again why you are bringing "secular India"? This is a science. Science, science, scientific knowledge—so does it mean the secular India, they should stop scientific education?

Guest (1): No religion can be backed up like that.

Prabhupāda: No, why you bring religion at all? It is science. Religion is a kind of faith. But science is not faith. You may have faith or may not have faith. Science, "Two plus two equal to four," everywhere. Why they forget this? This is a science, vijñāna. Jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa-vijñānaṁ idaṁ vakṣyāmy aśeṣataḥ (BG 7.2). It is vijñāna. And they are interpreting in different way, "Two plus two equal five." Big, big men, they are doing that. Two plus two equal five because somebody, some big man has said? This is going on. Somebody said, "Two plus two equal to three"; somebody says "Two plus two equal five." "In my opinion it is five." And somebody: "In my opinion it is three." What is this nonsense? This is going on. And they are big men. They are leaders, mūḍha. This is the position of India.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: They consider sex to be his lower nature, animal nature.

Prabhupāda: No. Everything is..., becomes animal nature when it is perverted, when it is contaminated.

Rāmeśvara: They do not have any conception of the positive.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Rāmeśvara: They have no conception of pure life. So they think that it's just...

Prabhupāda: If they have no conception, we should give them conception that the body is dead, decomposed, then where is the sex? Where is the inclination? Similarly, the soul originally... As it is said in the Vedānta-sūtra, that "Everything is coming from Brahman." Athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now let us talk about Brahman." This is the meaning of athāto brahma-jijñāsāh. Then next verse is..., sūtra, code-janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). And Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo (BG 10.8). So unless sex comes from God... It may be perverted in the material world. That is another thing. But originally, pure sex must be there in God.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: Sex.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sex is not bad. When it is misused, that is the defect. Otherwise, sex is not...

Rāmeśvara: The Western conception is that one man can only have one woman.

Prabhupāda: Why? If he can produce many big men, he can have hundreds of women. But you cannot do that. Therefore you are restrained. You are bad. You better restrain. Don't have sex, because you'll produce cats and dogs. But one who is able to produce great brain, great philosophers, he should produce hundreds. You do not know how to produce good brain. Therefore you stop! Don't produce cats and dogs. For you it is "Stop." You do not know how to use sex. Therefore you should stop. (break) You should not any more use sex. But one who can produce better brains should have hundreds of times. You must know how to produce. That is Vedic civilization, dharmaḥ saṁskāra idam...(?) It is not a secrecy, how to produce brain. And because brain is not produced, therefore there is agitation, that they have no brain. They do not know the value of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Rāmeśvara: There are temples all over India, and... A movie about Vaisnavism, not so much just Hare Kṛṣṇa, but Vaisnavism in general. Now, in the colleges in America they are always eager to have movies about Hinduism, Muhammadanism, Buddhism, for showing to their students, but whenever they have a movie about Hinduism, it is all bogus, many gods, many demigod worship, nature worship. And the people who make these movies for college classes have no conception. So I was thinking, if we make a scholarly movie about Vaisnavism...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Do. You can do.

Rāmeśvara: ...which will convince people that chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa is very accepted in India...

Prabhupāda: You take... You take this. I'll give you hint. You can develop it. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). The beginning is hearing about Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā, Bhāgavatam. Big, big sabhā, you'll find many Vaiṣṇavas chanting. They are reciting Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and hundreds and thousands are hearing.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Is there any purport?

Hari-śauri: "The demoniac accept that the enjoyment of the senses is the ultimate goal of life, and this concept they maintain until death. They do not believe in life after death, and they do not believe that one takes on different types of bodies according to one's karma, or activities in this world. Their plans for life are never finished, and they go on preparing plan after plan, all of which are never finished. We have personal experience of a person of such demoniac mentality..."

Prabhupāda: I am talking of that man. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No, all of them Ph.D.'s. All...

Rāmeśvara: And here, Dr. Jagadish Sharma. He's the author of nineteen books, a very well-learned man. He says, "The work done by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda toward the revivalism of Hindu culture and civilization is unsurpassable. His Holiness has done a great service to Indian culture by reinterpreting the concept enshrined in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. This edition of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam will go a long way to help the scientists in rediscovering phenomena of the universe which is yet to be discovered. The thoughts of this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam radiate to anyone who sees it. This book helps to brighten the gloomy and dark clouds which are covered by the nuclear fear and the apprehensions of society."

Prabhupāda: So let the judge read this opinion, read this book.

Gargamuni: Yeah, these men are famous men of India. This Jagadish Sharma is the most famous man in Punjab.

Prabhupāda: He is young man?

Gargamuni: Jagadish Sharma?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Sannyasis -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: This is a very good one, from the University of Helsinki. That's right near the Russian border, in Finland. He's a professor of Indian studies, the Department of Asian and African Studies, Professor extraordinarious, Penti Alto. "The Bhagavad-gītā is no doubt the most important and the best known work in the whole of Indian literature. The magnificence of its spiritual concepts and the sublimity of its thinking have secured a great popularity everywhere. It has been edited and commented countless times. The meaning of the text, at least in its main lines, is obvious and clear. The justification of a new interpretation is there, for in my opinion, dependent on the message conveyed by the commentary. The translator and commentator, Swami Bhaktivedanta, represents the Gauḍīya-Vaiṣṇava school, and thus interprets the message of the Gītā 'from the inside.' For example, Shankara in Canto Two"—he means Chapter Two—"verse twelve, interprets the plurality of the being enumerated to be only conventional. And according to the Māyāvādīns, the individuals after liberation merge into the impersonal Brahman. Swami Bhaktivedanta states that Kṛṣṇa here authoritatively emphasizes the eternity of the individuality."

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Satsvarūpa: "The transcendental form of God can be immediately experienced by a person who is duly prepared, as it is told in Chapter Eleven. Just these two points are, I think, the reason for the interest in the Gītā among persons with a searching spirit. Swami Bhaktivedanta's translation and commentary do deliver this message very convincingly indeed."

Rāmeśvara: Jaya!

Prabhupāda: He is a big professor.

Room Conversation with Sannyasis -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2).

Rāmeśvara: It's clear that for the first time these scholars are understanding the difference between the Bhagavad-gītā and the Māyāvādī conception. It's clear that now you have saved them. Previous to this, all they knew about is this impersonal concept.

Prabhupāda: That is the business of ācārya, sampradāya-rakṣana, to save the sampradāya from falling down. Sampradāya. Sampradāya rakṣana.

Rāmeśvara: After centuries of rascaldom you are giving them the first clear choice.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That was the desire of my Guru Mahārāja. I am just trying.

Satsvarūpa: Another professor that was met is going to with ten students... I have his name, a Professor Kalewart from the University of Loeben in Belgium. He's supposed to go to Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma Mandir on February lst with ten people.

Prabhupāda: He has gone?

Satsvarūpa: No, on February 1st.

Gargamuni: He should stay in our guesthouse.

Prabhupāda: So inform them, "You come."

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: But after all, you had no freedom. Similarly, you are still child because you are speaking like a child.

Hari-śauri: Their conception of freedom is very limited.

Prabhupāda: There is no freedom. Where is freedom? You have to die. Where is your freedom? You don't like to die. But you have to die.

Gurukṛpa: They used to have a slogan, all the hippies: "When I have to die, I'm the one that has to die. So let me live my life the way I want to."

Prabhupāda: What is that? "When I have to die"?

Gurukṛpa: "I have to experience it. Therefore let me live the way I want to. When it's time for me to die, it's my death."

Prabhupāda: But when there is warning of death, why do you fly? You have to die, but when there is warning of death, why you fly? (laughter) Rascal, why you fly? That means you do not want to die. You give this slogan, that "When there is warning of death, why do you fly? You have to die." (laughter) It is a rascal civilization, that's all. Western civilization is a rascal civilization. I do not take they are civilized even. No. White aborigines. That's all. (break) Mahāprabhu says, janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra. In other countries there is no civilization. In India there is civilization. Just you become civilized and distribute this knowledge.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: He must do it because He's God. You do not... You have no conception. You explain that if there is no such things, then wherefrom it has come? God is the origin. In the Bible also it is said, "God said 'Let there be creation.' " So in the creation there are so many things. So therefore everything comes from God. That is Vedānta philosophy. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). So why do you say, "Your God is like this"? God has everything. Otherwise how He's God? There is no meaning of God if He is deficient in something. But you do not know.

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That is good the first, beginning, let them come. Let them sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and take prasāda. In Iran we are doing that. Gradually it is becoming interesting. You had been in our Iran, Tehran?

Pṛthu-putra: I went there also some time, long time ago. But Iran is a different concept. They're not so strict about following the Koran. For example, these Arabic countries like Algeria, Libya, Egypt, and Tunisia, they don't recognize Iran like being part of them. Iran and Turkey and Afghanistan they think is another Muslim world. For example, in Iran there is much more Sufis, the different... But in these Arabic countries like Egypt, they're really conservative. They're very strict.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Conservative means fanatical.

Pṛthu-putra: Fanatical, yes, that's the word. So my idea, when I went there... Because I have an Arabic boy who is translating. So I have one Śrī Īśopaniṣad completely translated into Arabic which can be printed.

Prabhupāda: So print.

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Pṛthu-putra: Because they are convinced already about this through the Koran. They already accept God is one, and He's possessing all fame, all beauty. But they say... The only point is that He cannot come down to the earth because the earth is a planet of sin.

Prabhupāda: No, that is your not perfect conception. If He is almighty and He's all-powerful, why you restrict Him?

Pṛthu-putra: They say, "No, He's not restricted. But when He has to reveal Himself He reveals to the prophet. This is the reason why Muhammad received the instruction from God."

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That's all right. But you cannot say that He does not come to showing mercy to a prophet. He may come if He likes. That is mission. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnām (BG 4.8). One who is actually devotee, prophet, he's always anxious to see what they (indistinct). So in order to favor them, (Sanskrit). What is their proposition?

Pṛthu-putra: In the story of Koran they say Muhammad once asked to see God, and God's answer was, "You're not able to see Me."

Prabhupāda: That's all right. At least he could hear Him. So that is possible. Not that necessarily one has to see Him, but he can hear Him. Now, you have said that Muhammad heard Him, so God can speak. So you can hear. So where is the objection?

Pṛthu-putra: No objection.

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Then you have to say that you have no idea what is God. Then they will be offended. Better not, that not to say. (laughs) We know it, that's all.

Pṛthu-putra: Just introduce it as it is. Just introduce as it is.

Prabhupāda: Let us with logic, philosophy, talk. There is no conception of God throughout the whole world. Vague idea.

Pṛthu-putra: Yes. Because in the description of Koran, what they think about spiritual world is like heavenly planets. It's all the opposite of what they experience now. Now they are living in a desert, so they think when we are going to get liberation we'll be full of water and beautiful women giving you honey. You don't have to work. This is their... This is described in Koran.

Prabhupāda: No, that is heaven.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Rich man, poor man, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, American, Ind..., sab combined. (Hindi) This is really United Nation, our organization. (Hindi) So? What other pictures?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, I have many pictures. I gave a lecture, seminar, just before I came here at the university, about the nature of the Absolute Truth in terms of science and in terms of Bhagavad-gītā, a comparative study of the concept of the Absolute Truth. And there were many professors from physics, chemistry, mathematics, from philosophy, from biology, and from sociology. It was... Balavanta Prabhu was also there, and a few other devotees. It was quite interesting. And there was a slide show.

Prabhupāda: Balavanta was in Manipur?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. This is in the United States.

Prabhupāda: United States.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So what these big, big scientists said?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The chairman gave me a nice letter saying that this is the first type of seminar that he has ever heard in his life. (Prabhupāda chuckles) We made the presentation sound very scientific. We had the slide projection on one side, and this overhead projection on the other side. So it made a good presentation so that people can be attracted. It was quite effective. In fact, it was the most effective so far we have seen, because it was very colorful, the pictures, and we were comparing the fundamental concept of the Absolute Truth as it is understood by modern science and the defects of it, and then what is the alternative, the alternative view. We call it the other alternative scientific view. That is from... We speak about the Second Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, about the nature of life, about the nature of the self. We've taken that it's nonchemical and nonphysical. Then we try to explain it in terms of scientific terminologies and scientific language.

Prabhupāda: The, that verse, that "It does not burn, it does not..."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Nainam... Yes.

Prabhupāda: Nainaṁ chindanti... That is the nonphysical.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Now some person...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. It's very interesting that science says that those equations at the bottom are the... Those are the ultimate truth, the modern science, about these mathematical equations. So if we analyze this on the analytical basis, they are like this—those mathematical equations. So this is the concept of Absolute Truth in terms of science. And these are atoms and molecules or, we call it, fundamental particles. And so the spring between the two is some sort of electromagnetic force in the different..., among different particles. So this is the concept of Absolute Truth in terms of science. And we analyzed this in terms of our practical experience, from our day-to-day experience, and we gave some nice examples like this. This is a crocodile from... It's a male crocodile from South Africa in Scientific American a few months ago. There he's trying to break an egg just to come out, that little young one, the small baby crocodile. And what he does is...

Prabhupāda: They come out from egg?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. They lay eggs.

Prabhupāda: Oh. How big it is?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I don't know how big it is.

Prabhupāda: Not very big.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: But he is not eating.

Prabhupāda: No, that the other day we saw, the lions. There was quarrel, baby lions—not baby, very big—but there is no attack. There is no attack. The feelings of affection is there in the animal, ferocious animal. So what is the scientists' reply?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, they are fascinated with this concept, but they cannot explain. They are failing those aspects.

Prabhupāda: So you are attacking them like this. Choke. (laughter) That is good.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's Darwin again. The Darwin... His own words. We are quoting his words, and we're going to use it as illustrations in the book as well as in the journal.

Prabhupāda: "I remember well the time when the thought of the eye made..." What is that? "...eye(?) made me cold, when the eye(?) made me cold all over, but I have got over this stage of the complaint, and now a small trifling, particulars of structure, often make me very uncomfortable. The sight of a feather in a peacock's tail, whenever I (sic?) crease at the neck..."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: "Make me sick."

Prabhupāda: "Make me sick." What does he mean by this?

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So actually that is the result of that theory, because the theory says that we are just combination of some molecules. We come from molecules, and when we finish, we will also go to molecules. So that very philosophy, that very concept, makes people think that way.

Prabhupāda: He was a scientist?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He was called naturalist. Yes, he was... He had some background in biology. And to counteract his statement we have also another statement from... This is from Einstein, but another, from Pasteur, this is very suitable for our purpose. (pause) Einstein was against the..., what they call the laws of quantum mechanics. Quantum mechanics is the most advanced stage of modern physics or modern chemistry. But they are..., says that there must be chance. They must introduce a concept of chance in order to explain the nature of the Absolute Truth. In other words, these physical laws, the laws of nature...

Prabhupāda: The Absolute Truth is also chance?

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In order to write down in the form of mathematical formulas or equations in quantum mechanics this—they call probability—the theory of probability or chance should be introduced. But Einstein was against that. That's what he's saying. It says, "The Heisenberg all-tranquilizing philosophy or religion is so delicately contrived that for the time being it provides a gentle pillow for the true believer from which he cannot very easily be aroused. So let him lie there." In other words, those who believe in chance... The main concept in quantum mechanics or quantum physics is mainly from this Heisenberg and Borg. They are well-known physicists. There is a chapter called "Copenhagen Interpretation." There was a great meeting in Copenhagen about this concept of quantum mechanics, and so they call it "Copenhagen Interpretation." And there the names which were..., this Heisenberg and Borg(?). And they were saying that "Yes, we must accept that there must be chance." So the argument was put forward by these people, but Einstein is against, to that idea. So he's saying that "Those who believe, let them lie there, because the philosophy made by these people serves as a very gentle pillow, very soft. So once people lie there, they cannot be very easily aroused." That's the idea. "But," he said, "that is not a fact."

Hari-śauri: That's like... He means it's an easy way out for them to say "chance."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. "Those who don't understand, those who want to be just satisfied with that concept, let them lie there for the time being. But," he said, "that is not a truth."

Prabhupāda: So why the scientists die?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Why scientists die?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why do not make some arrangement so they'll not die?

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Amongst the scientists, there are many who are actually against this concept that life is something chemical or physical. But they are somehow afraid of speaking outside...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...even among their colleagues.

Prabhupāda: Because these rascals will boycott them.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Once they speak out, then maybe they'll not get grant from the government.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So somehow they are hesitant to speak out.

Prabhupāda: That is the position. And I have heard that among the scientists' society, if somebody speaks of God he's immediately rejected.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of course, the thing is, though, when we say things like this, they take it that it is so absurd that they don't even take it seriously. When you make a statement that "You have no brains," when you say that to a so-called learned man...

Prabhupāda: No, where is brain? "Show. You are manufacturing so many machines." Challenge this, "Where is this machine?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Their conception of what intelligence is is completely different than our conception.

Prabhupāda: And that means they have no brain.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They would argue...

Prabhupāda: Just like a child's conception is different from the father. That means he has not developed the brain. That is only answer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't accept that God consciousness is...

Prabhupāda: So then... They may not accept, but the fact is there. You can challenge this, that body's machine. Apart from what is the energy that is moving the machine, but it is machine, we accept. So you prepare a machine like that. Where is that machine?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll say that "You also cannot."

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Brahmānanda: Sometimes we see that an Indian, he's living at least a more saintly life than the life that we have led, but sometimes we are more qualified to hear than some Indian men.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because you have got qualification-dhīra. What I say, you hear with patience. And those who are adhīra, they cannot. Sometimes... Aye. (someone enters) You can come this side. (break) Two words is very important. One is, that in the beginning one must be dhīra, not restless. Restlessness is for the animal, or a child. He is restless. He cannot understand. An animal, a cat and dog... Sometimes they remain very silent before the master, but not always. Their habit is not silent. So this understanding, that "I am not this body," is not possible for, say, restless person, that "I am not this body." It is specially mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, dhīra. He must not be a restless animal, always busy. Just like monkey. Monkey is always busy. But as soon as the monkey comes, everyone knows he is very busy. He can jump very nicely. And immediately they take a stick, "Get out! Get out! Get out!" Busy fool. Fool, if he remains little silent, so he does less harm. But if he is busy, he is more harmful. So this is the position at the present moment, that people are kept in the animal civilization and they are busy. So they are creating more harm. It is not for the good of the society. They are creating more harm. This dehātma-buddhi is the conception of the animals.

Conversation with Italian Woman with Translator -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: It is not possible.

Translator: Another thing is that she has a husband, but they don't live together in the same ideas, spiritual ideas. So she wants to know what to do now. Should she go apart from the husband?

Prabhupāda: It has nothing to do with spiritual advancement. It is body. So that is animal conception. Tell her.

Translator: She's still insisting, should she stay with her husband, should she stay alone so she can...?

Prabhupāda: The same thing. Because it is body, bodily connection, either you live alone or with somebody, it has nothing to do with spiritual life.

Translator: She lives in Milano and she would like, somehow or other, to help people through yoga. So she wants to know if she is able to do it or not?

Prabhupāda: What help she can do?

Translator: She says she would like to help spiritually other people.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So first of all you realize yourself.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Individual. Where there is question of mixing? Śaṅkarācārya's mistake is that the spirit is a mixture, and in māyā state, they're divided. Is it not? So when the division is finished, then it is spirit. But Kṛṣṇa does not say that. He says in the past we are individual, at present we are individual, and in future we shall continue to be individual.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Seems that we have a good field in medicine, speaking with doctors. It's very interesting. And because they deal with life, so my first question is "What is life?" I just ask them, "What is your concept of life?" And they become very...

Prabhupāda: Concept of life is clear in the Bhagavad-gītā. That is also one of the elements, but superior element. The gross earth, water, air, fire, ether, even mind, intelligence, ego, they are inferior. And there is another superior item. That is living entity. It is clearly said. Jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho (BG 7.5). And that is important because that living entity is handling this inferior. Very clear. Just like a good machine. That machine as it is, it is not important. A living entity has handled it. By handling, the machine is prepared, and by handling it is important. So who is superior, this matter or the person who is handling? And it's clear—yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). Jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate. It is clear. And similarly, whole machine must be handled by a living creature. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carāca... (BG 9.10). Clear.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Then that is all right. Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Then we started talking about the concept of life. So he would say that life is just combination of molecules, and I started asking questions because I knew all, what he was doing. I was following his papers. But he didn't know what he was doing. Then it came up to the point that he agreed to the limitations that we have in so many words that we say, but actually it's not true.

Prabhupāda: He admitted.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. But still, he said that this is the best theory that they have at this time. So this is the only time they get the chance of doing something, so they want to continue whether it comes out right or wrong, but just some sort of a game.

Hari-śauri: They can't afford to lose their grants.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He said in about twenty years...

Prabhupāda: Again time, time-taking. (laughter)

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We wanted to encourage him, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's nice. No, we have got flaw in every... So it is better to try to rectify it. That's all.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: A new concept which came up more and more in this GBC meeting was the concept of more than one GBC secretary helping on the same subject. That is, some responsibilities have been assigned to be shared.

Prabhupāda: Yes, very good.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: So with this idea, I am sure the situation can be rectified even to the point of bringing Yogeśvara and his wife back.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Dr. Sharma can help us a lot in Bombay. Because I find that medical institutions, you know, hospitals, is a very good place to speak to the doctors. Because this life, this concept of life, and these bio-medical ethics is very appropriate. So...

Dr. Sharma: Yes, actually, this concept is very timely for our country, Prabhupāda. My feeling is that our country has a special place in the Lord's heart, because He came here several times. And the very fact that after independence, nobody could prevent it again, and you have come, all these things, to stop it now. And I think the thing should start from...

Prabhupāda: At least, I am the first man to try for it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes.

Dr. Sharma: And these people, they are very learned in their chosen fields, and they are Kṛṣṇa conscious, and they are really keen to do it with enthusiasm, to turn the tide back.

Prabhupāda: They have sacrificed their lives. They are scientists, they could earn lots of money, but they do not care for it. They have dedicated their lives. In America they could earn lots of money, such a qualified person. But they did not care for money. They care for the truth. That is real brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa does not care for money. Knowledge. Satya śamo damas titikṣā ārjavaṁ jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). The truth. That is brāhmaṇa.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Sharma: Actually, we never had the geographical conception of the nation. Only conception was the religious conception. Wherever Kṛṣṇa is worshiped, that is India. That has been the concept through all the centuries, until 1947, you know, and then we had these boundaries. Otherwise, Kṛṣṇa is worshiped in north, He is worshiped in south, He is worshiped in east, He is worshiped in west, and there are temples marking that plain. And that's what we call India. And that has been throughout the centuries. Not the geographical boundaries they have given now to India. Really you can make out the definition of India, where Kṛṣṇa is worshiped, that is India. And that can be anywhere now, including worship in the United States or in Canada. Because He was the man, He was our Lord, He came here. He gave us the religion, He gave us the life, He gave us this... So now these politicians are taking that concept away, and they are changing the consciousness of the whole nation now. They want to change the consciousness. They want to make them materialistic. They want to make them greedy. They want to...

Prabhupāda: And what materialistic advancement they have done?

Dr. Sharma: No thing.

Prabhupāda: Now in our childhood, when we were ten-years-old boy, my father used to purchase high kilo saraṣera tela, for eight annas. Can these rascals do to that standard? Eight annas, first-class Kanpur mustard oil. Now that oil... Not that quality oil, still, they are being sold thirteen rupees per kilo, instead of three annas.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then why...? What is this? This is nonsense. Two plus two equal to four. It will be accepted by everyone. Every scientist, every mathematician. And if by vote, secular state, "It is five" or "It is six," shall we have to accept it? We have to accept knowledge as it is. Why you say secular or not secular?

Mr. Koshi: No, I think it is a question of accepting a concept of...

Prabhupāda: No concept. It is science. It is not... Try to understand this. "Two plus two" is science. It is not concept.

Mr. Koshi: I know that. But let us look at it this way. You are saying that Kṛṣṇa is important, but somebody else says that somebody else is important.

Prabhupāda: If Kṛṣṇa is important, why shall He not be taken?

Mr. Koshi: If somebody else says that Jack is important...

Prabhupāda: Somebody. What is that somebody? Is he a scientist? Is he a philosopher? Is he advanced? Any loafer class man say anything.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that? We are preaching internationalism, everyone welcome. Come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is being done. Real United Nations. Here is Christian, here is Jew, here is African, here is Muhammadan, everything. Worldwide. That is real United Nations. They have no conception. If they would thought that "I am American," then why he is after a poor Indian man? Indians are known outside India as poverty-stricken, and that's a fact. So why he should come to the person born of poverty-stricken nation? But actually we are not poverty-stricken. If we cultivate our own standard of knowledge, Bhagavad-gītā, then we are the richest and we can give the whole world the gift. That should be... And they will welcome. That will be glorified if they accept. Just see. This is our... I am trying for that.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: To become brahmacārī.

Girirāja: The minister of health and family planning, he said, he denied, that "This name should be changed to just minister of health, because this type of family planning is against the traditional values of India."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is totally against it. It's Western, the whole Western conception.

Girirāja: Actually, a short time ago, everyone knew that these things were wrong, but now they are trying to pretend that it is not wrong. They are trying to forget.

Prabhupāda: They can do, all their political divisions. These rascals, they can do. Anything. They have no principles, no morality, no standard of morality, nothing. Simply all rogues and thieves. It will more and more. All rogues and thieves will take part in politics. That is stated. Dasyu dharmeṇa. Just like dasyu, the burglar, the thieves, they have got organization how to get money. So they, the government, they'll be rogues and thieves. And whenever there is necessity of money, then tax. You work hard; they will tax. Organized burglars, organized guṇḍās. And Indira was doing that. Indira and company. Take the power and club(?) them and do whatever you like. She is a prostitute; her son is a guṇḍā. This is the sample of the... But it will be done all round the world. This is a sample of that.

Room Conversation -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Tayāpahṛta-cetasām (BG 2.44). Anyway, now you learn this art. Do good to the rest of the... That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... Don't keep them in ignorance. That is paropakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... All saintly persons do like that. Especially Caitanya Mahāprabhu. This civilization is so dangerous. Demonic. Formerly, political fighting is always there. People had no concept. Democracy means that every man has to take part in the competition.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Any fool.

Prabhupāda: They have been made fools. There was monarchy. If there was political fighting between the monarch, fighting between two kings, and the general public, "We have no concern with this. Whoever you become king, you take the tax." That's all, finished.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "And the king will protect us."

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now so many charges are coming against her. (pause) Hm? She and her son are the destiny of India? A woman and a debauch? They can do whatever they like. It's a farce condition. That so-called democracy is nonsense demoncracy. And by this demoncracy, it can be done. A demon may be, if he can simply secure votes. What is the position? Without any training Formerly the destiny was by rājarṣi. Royal power, but ṛṣi, saintly person. See the character of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, Parīkṣit, Ambarīṣa. (aside:) At least, you cover some way or other with some cloth. Find out some cloth or towel, and cover it. Yes. All rogues, they are political leaders. Political leader means rogue. Nowadays, these... Here is so-called religious leader, Sai Baba, another rogue. This is Kali-yuga. (Hindi) There is no good man politician. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyāḥ (SB 1.1.10). Sumanda-matayaḥ. They have got a conception which is very, very bad, conception of religion, social, political. All condemned.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And this designation can be moved, removed at any moment. Indira Gandhi, no more prime minis... Designation finished. So sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170), when one become free all designation, tat-paratvena nirmalam, simply by Kṛṣṇa consciousness he becomes purified. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhakti... Then bhakti begins.

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
na śocati na kāṅkṣati
samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
(BG 18.54)

This is the preliminary condition. So it means as soon as they have become devotee, they have no more designation. This conception is not there: "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim"—no.

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There is no need. This is animal conception of life. The dog also combine together and make (makes barking sound:) ba ba ba ba ba. A human being also can do like that. Then where is the difference between animal and human being?

Ram Jethmalani: But I don't know that animals, on the contrary, serve each other. It is men who do.

Prabhupāda: But what is the use of serving? What you can do? What service you have done? You cannot do anything beyond the laws of nature. Now Indira is in difficulty. What can you do? In one day, everything is finished. The law of nature is so strict. You cannot do anything. You are falsely proud that you want to do. It is not possible. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). You can do only the service, that "You are not this body, you are spirit soul, your business is this.

Morning Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He said very sensible thing, no.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, I think he can be coordinated(?). He said when he was very young...

Prabhupāda: No, no, what is, what is his conception about God?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He had a Kṛṣṇa...

Girirāja: Well, spiritually, he's on the verge of becoming a devotee. He is...

Prabhupāda: He has got attachment for Kṛṣṇa.

Girirāja: He has attachment. And he realizes that if he develops his attachment for Kṛṣṇa, that will solve all of his problems.

Prabhupāda: If you simply follow the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, the whole world will be perfect. That's all. But these rascals, they take Kṛṣṇa as fictitious. Such a rascal, educated man, that for "fictitious Kṛṣṇa," Vyāsadeva has taken so much trouble. Such a great writer and Vedavyāsa, and later on, all the ācāryas, big, big ācāryas, they have wasted time for something fictitious. Such a rascal. I say, "rascal..." (end)

Conversation with disciples of Chinmayananda and Shivananda Ashram -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is your blindness. You do not see the...

Indian man (3): I don't find any difference between Kṛṣṇa consciousness and the concept of our Brahman.

Prabhupāda: No, then you do not know what is Brahman, what is Kṛṣṇa. That means you are not fully in knowledge.

Indian man (3): Ācchā... It is not a name, sir.

Prabhupāda: It is clearly stated, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate.

Indian man (6): Are we not catching only names and forms?

Prabhupāda: You can do anything nonsense. Who cares for you? The śāstra is there.

Discussions with Devotees and Conversation with Dr. Ghosh -- June 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Svarūpa Dāmodara? You also.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: When the goal and the meaning of life is not understood, then people take it as void. So that means life is full of meaning and full of purpose, and it is also a goal, but when that meaning is not understood... That is actually the scientific philosophy, that it is all void because there is no meaning and there is no purpose. That is what the... Especially in the Western scientists, that is the current thought, that, the complete material philosophy. But when one changes that concept by developing proper consciousness it just becomes the opposite. That means...

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Give me... What fruit you have?

Kīrtanānanda: Orange. Orange.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: When this philosophy is reversed, then life becomes full of meaning and full of purpose. Actually that is a fact. We give value to life. That's why we go to the... We send our children for higher studies and we develop so many political and social and ethical and moral problems. That means there is purpose in life. So life is not void. But somehow, when one misses that point, he just comes to that point. But that's not a fact. So it has to be understood that there is... Life is full of meaning and full of purpose, and there is a goal behind it. That purpose is to develop spiritual consciousness, to develop the science of ātmā called ātma-jñāna, the science of the self, and becomes... Life becomes meaningful.

Prabhupāda: That is the statement in Bhāgavata, apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). Gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām, they dismiss the case because apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2). Just like thieves: "Eh! What is government? What is government? Let us enjoy." That's not the fact. So we have to put all these questions before learned scholars and ask them to make a solution.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And I also published this little concept about what these, all these lectures is about. So it says, "Announcing a worldwide lecture tour on the origin of life and matter, sponsored by Bhaktivedanta Institute for Higher Studies, Founder-Ācārya His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda." And then I give a whole series from here to here, and I also give the topics and...

Prabhupāda: Very nice.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So like to hear a little bit?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (Svarūpa Dāmodara reads pamphlet announcing worldwide lecture tour of Bhaktivedanta Institute) All glories to Svarūpa Dāmodara.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Unless there is personal conception, there is no question of bhakti. (break) Bhakti means the way to understand the person. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). Mām means person, aham, mām. Vague idea, Brahman; distributed idea, Paramātmā; and the personal idea can be applied here. It is said, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). It is not impersonal, not scattered. Particular person, Kṛṣṇa. When Yaśodā-mā was allowing her child to suck her breast, the child was.... And Yasoda mother was enjoying the beautiful face, patting. But all of a sudden she saw within the mouth the whole universe. Immediately she became disturbed: "Another danger is coming." She's not concerned with Kṛṣṇa's expansive, gorgeous.... She's only concern is to Kṛṣṇa, what.... She became disturbed: "What is this nonsense? Again something is coming, danger? Let me remember Nārāyaṇa. He'll save my child from all..." The personal conception is so strong that he (she) disliked to see gorgeous opulence of his (her)...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Therefore it transcends jñāna.

Prabhupāda: That is jñāna.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) When there is argument? Nonsense, how you can argue? And therefore you are rascal. And that is also forbidden. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet: "Things which are beyond your conception, don't foolishly argue, rascal." That will prove your rascaldom. Better accept what the authority says. It is beyond your conception, rascal. Why you are wasting time? That we want to say, that all of them are rascals, and they are simply wasting time by false idea. Cheating. You know, there are companies. They'll... They have got photographic studio. So they adjust their moon hoax. They'll help you. If you have got particular idea... They are going to the moon planet, Mars. Nowhere the rascals go. There is no knowledge. How they can go? Teeny, imperfect. So if we can prove that they have no knowledge of the universe, neither of the position of their...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually if these two things, that life comes from life and this concept of the universe, two points are clear, then everything is taken care of.

Prabhupāda: Very good. Their false propaganda... (pause) (break) Scientists, they should seriously charge for the prestige of their Vedic knowledge. "Yes, my... Yes, sir, you are stating." What is this nonsense? "You are creating some rascals? Yes, my lord." In the name of education.

Showing of Planetary Sketches -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Yaśodānandana: It depends on what we mean by earth. The Western conception of earth is just five continents and a few oceans, but according to Bhāgavatam, earth means Jambūdvīpa, because earth is connected with Jambūdvīpa.

Devotee (2): So whole Jambūdvīpa fell.

Bhakti-Prema: Bhāgavata describes the height of Himalayas, eighty thousand miles.

Prabhupāda: No, about this earth globe.

Room Conversation with Alice Coltrane -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. It's personal. They have a personal conception of God, of a person, but they don't understand that one has to become very highly qualified before he can actually talk to God. They take it as anybody who has any position in spiritual life should be able to talk to God. So that she has to learn again with real understanding.

Prabhupāda: Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānām (BG 10.10). One who is twenty-four hours engaged, He talks with him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She's quite serious. She eats very minimally, sleeps very little. This girl told me... She lives with her. She only sleeps about three hours a day, and she eats very little.

Prabhupāda: Then she'll be qualified if she reads Bhagavad-gītā nicely.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Bhāgavatam, one portion may not be exactly like... Just like if you are in the midst of the petal, you cannot understand it is petal. You see it is flat. You have shown in the map, there is a point so many miles. So that petal, middle portion, you can take it flat. It is not flat. It is curved. Whatever conception you make, that is defective. Rascals. First of all you have to understand this. So don't make it like this, like this, like this, like... Whatever it is said, that is all right. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said aśraddadhānāḥ. No faith. Faithless. We have challenged, by chemical combination make a small egg, sparrow's egg, and produce.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Yaśodā-nandana: The biggest problem we are discussing... We were thinking that the first question they will ask, this is their conception of the world.

Prabhupāda: We reject them.

Yaśodā-nandana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: "You are imperfect. So whatever you have written, that is nonsense. And everywhere problem. Why should we waste our time?" Now just try to settle from point of. He's showing this book, I am showing the Bhāgavatam. So you are imperfect, that's a fact. What is the value of your book? If you are basically a rascal, then what is the value of your book? Why shall I waste my time? First of all I take it and I prove it that you are a rascal. You show your book, I show my book. But you have been proved that you are a rascal. Because practically you cannot cross Himalaya. You have no idea what is the Himalaya. You are giving some conflict.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. What is beyond your conception, don't try to. So that is Vedic civilization. They were satisfied with information received from the Vedas.

Bhakti-prema: The first and last thing we have to prove logically that this is...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Logically you cannot. Acintya. Logic comes when it is conceivable; but it is inconceivable. Where is your logic?

Bhakti-prema: But first to prove them right understanding we have to bring them.

Prabhupāda: It is very difficult. Acintya.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what he's asking. What should be shown? Actually we're a little stumped by... I mean...

Prabhupāda: Yes, you must have proper answer as far as possible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We just read... We got a version from South India, and we've even found that there are different conceptions of what the Bhāgavata is saying. But the Purāṇas, they give some Puranic references.

Bhakti-prema: It is written the world... The earth is round and flat.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bhakti-prema: Earth is round and flat both, together.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhakti-prema: First we should reply it is acintya. This should be the reply. "Inconceivable."

Yaśodā-nandana: If it is inconceivable, then they will say how we can conceive it?

Prabhupāda: Take the version of Bhāgavatam.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Did you know that story, the Nārada was going to Vaikuṇṭha? Nārada came back and replied to a cobbler... Cobbler asked him what Nārāyaṇa is doing. "He has taken one elephant and He's drawing through the hole of a needle like this and again taking." The learned brāhmaṇa, he began to laugh. "These are all stories." And the cobbler began to cry, "Oh, Nārāyaṇa, Kṛṣṇa, can..." Nārada inquired, "How do you believe that elephant is being drawn through the hole of needle?" "No, why not? I'm daily seeing by sitting under this banyan tree, and within a fruit there are thousands of seeds. And each seed contains the big tree." Can the scientists make such small seed contain a big banyan tree? So it is acintya. That's a fact. (break) ...thing is inconceivable. And these rascals want to bring them as conceivable. He's conditioned, and he's trying to bring inconceivable thing to his conception. Useless, futile attempt. How the scientist will answer? We take a fruit. There are hundreds of seeds, and each seed contains a big tree. How you can explain? Is it not inconceivable?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Room Conversation Gaurasundara, Dr. Kapoor -- July 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kapoor: I think they should attack the very basic concept of science.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Dr. Kapoor: The very basic concept of science should be attacked, the molecules and the atoms. They say life comes out of molecules. But what, according to modern science, are molecules themselves? You see, before... (break) ...molecules disappear. As a matter of fact, particle disappears, you see. What remains...

Prabhupāda: Oh, they knew... They have written... That they have denied. It is not chemical-physical.

Dr. Kapoor: The scientists themselves admit that what remains in the last analysis is something akin to consciousness, and not what we call matter or particle. Even supposing life comes out of molecules...

Prabhupāda: So he has met many scientists.

Room Conversation -- October 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kapoor: That is the basic theme, but the philosopher will ask the question, "You must first be very clear in your mind about these basic concepts, What is life and what is matter?" You may have some idea about life. Because we are life ourselves, we have some experience, some idea of life. But what is matter? No scientist has any clear conception of matter.

Prabhupāda: Matter has no consciousness.

Brahmānanda: But matter has no consciousness.

Dr. Kapoor: Matter has no consciousness, but what exactly it is? And you see, I tell you, matter has no consciousness—this is also an assumption. You see? The analysis of matter has revealed to the scientist, the physicist, that what remains in the ultimate analysis is at least not matter.

Prabhupāda: Matter, when you combine together, reveals some reaction. That's all.

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And that is Māyāvāda. (break) ...superficially Caitanya Mahāprabhu also a Māyāvādī.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. That was confirmed when He was talking like that. Just like Carl Jung... He's a psychologist. He says that matter is a concept, some sort of imagination that one has in his mind, something like that idea that these Māyāvādīs... They think this is not real.

Prabhupāda: It is not real in this sense: because the spirit is there, therefore it is there. Because there is consciousness, there is ignorance, covering. And if you stop this ignorance, then consciousness is there, pure.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: When the consciousness is undeveloped, looks like dead body.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In a living body, in a living cell, actually it is made up of innumerable lives. But among these innumerable lives, the jīva, who is...

Prabhupāda: He's a particular individual. In the body... Just like you are in this room. When you leave this room, the room becomes vacant, but there are innumerable other jīvas.

Room Conversation -- November 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Stories and fables will not convince them.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I want to briefly outline tomorrow the comparative presentation of two aspects of modern science versus the Bhagavad-gītā, the varying concepts of life.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We'll outline, saying that modern science thinks that we are children of chance and chemical reactions. But the Gītā says we are children of Kṛṣṇa. We are coming from the supremely conscious person.

Prabhupāda: Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Page Title:Conception (Conv. 1976 - 1977)
Compiler:Mayapur
Created:21 of Sep, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=138, Let=0
No. of Quotes:138