Expressions researched:
"classifi"
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|"classified"
|"classified"
|"classifies"
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Prabhupāda: Dull, dull. Dhol guṇār, dhol means drum and guṇār means dull. Śūdra, and the laborer class. Three. Dhol, guṇār, śūdra, and paśu, household animals, just like cows, dogs.
Brahmānanda: Pet.
Prabhupāda: Pet, like that. Dhol guṇār śūdra paśu and narī. Nari means woman. (laughs) Just see. He has classified the narī amongst these class, dhol, guṇār, śūdra, paśu, narī. Ihe sab śaśan ke adhikārī. Sasan ke adhikārī means all these are subjected for punishment.
Prabhupāda: Because it is genuine.
Dr. Singh: And the sheep are very hungry. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: I want to revive brāhmaṇa-ism, kṣatriya-ism. Unless you do that, there cannot be any peace. Dharma. Dharma means this classification dharma. There are two kinds of dharmas. One, material dharma, and another, spiritual dharma. Actually, dharma means spiritual. But so long we do not come to the standard platform of spiritual dharma, we have to regulate our life in such a way that we may come ultimately to the spiritual platform. So that material dharma is that, as Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13).
Viṣṇujana: They say, "We want to regress and become like India." If everyone becomes devotees, then they'll all walk around like us and regress.
Prabhupāda: There is no devotee in India, real devotee, at the present moment.
Viṣṇujana: So they classify us like that. They say, "You Hare Kṛṣṇa people, you want to take us back to cholera and dysentery and everything."
Prabhupāda: But you are already suffering from cancer. What you have done? (laughter) Instead of cholera, you have got cancer. Is that very good exchange?
Jayadharma: Sometimes people may say, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that we're just trying to introduce the old caste system from India that never worked anyway.
Prabhupāda: That caste system is already there. We are also..., we have got poor class, rich class. The Communists, they have also worker class, manager class, although the Communists against class system. But I have seen, they have made this classification: worker class, manager class. Why do you make this? That is efficiency. Leader class, follower class. Otherwise there will be chaos. This is natural.
Prabhupāda: This is not caste system.
Yogi Bhajan: It turned into.
Prabhupāda: This is classification of the human being. This is not caste system. Just like we are making this American boy a brāhmaṇa. So this is a brāhmaṇa caste?
Jayatīrtha: No, "and tolerant." " 'Such MEN,' " capital M-E-N again, "he said, 'are first-class citizens and should be advisors to the world. Second and third-class MEN have not found God and should be administrators and workers.' " Not exactly right. "He spoke thirty minutes and never mentioned women. I asked how women fit into his system. 'Women,' he said, 'is not equal in intelligence to man. Man's brain weighs sixty-four ounces; women's weighs thirty-six ounces. It is just a fact.' He continued, 'Women are meant to assist men. That is all.' He said women do not figure in his class system except as daughters or wives. 'An unmarried woman presumably is classless. Is that,' asked a male reporter..."
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) That is fact. She is prostitute, that's all. If you classify, then she is prostitute. (laughter) That's all. There is no other way.
Sandy Nixon: Well, I think there's always been castes. It's just that we don't recognize the fact that they're there.
Prabhupāda: No, recognize means if a man is qualified medical man we accept him as medical man. And if a man is qualified engineer, we accept him as engineer. Similarly, Bhagavad-gītā suggests—not suggest, it is there—there are four classes of men, the most intelligent class of men, the administrator class of men, the productive class of men and ordinary worker. That is already there. Bhagavad-gītā says how they should be classified, that "He belongs to this class, he belongs to that class." That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, not that by birth, hereditarily, one becomes a caste. You don't try to misunderstand. The classification is already there: one class of men, very intelligent. Is he not there in the human society? Do you think all men are equally intelligent? Do you think? There must be one class, very highly intelligent class. So what are the symptoms of the intelligent class? That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. The first-class intelligent man... (break) ...you find all these qualities, he is first-class man. So we are trying to introduce that, that without first-class man, the society is useless. So there are first-class men.
Reporter (2): Are you attempting to form a college?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is my next attempt, that we shall educate according to classification. First-class, second-class, third-class, up to fourth-class. And then fifth-class, sixth-class, that is automatically there. So first-class men, there must be, at least in the society, an ideal class of men, and that is one who is trained up for controlling the mind, controlling the senses, very clean, truthful, tolerant, simplicity, full of knowledge, practical application of knowledge in life and full faith in God. This is first-class man.
Prabhupāda: Indians are taken within the group of black? No.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, they have white and nonwhite. So technically speaking, they can classify all of the Indians as nonwhite. But at the same time, there is more division, and they have Indian community, and they have the colored community and the African community.
Harikeśa: ...so you can see what kind of quality they have.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Take "everyone is rascal," then train them. That is wanted. Take everyone as rascal. There is no question that "Here is intelligent man, here is rascal, here is the..." No. First of all take them all rascals, and then train them. That is wanted. That is wanted now. At the present moment the whole world is full of rascals. Now, if they take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, select amongst them. Just like I am training. You are brāhmaṇa by training. So one who is prepared to be trained as brāhmaṇa, classify him in the brāhmaṇa. One is trained up as kṣatriya, classify him. In this way, cātur-varṇyaṁ māyā sṛṣ...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But I think people would... Most people would go crazy if they didn't have any work.
Prabhupāda: No, that means their life is not properly conducted. And therefore the word laziness has come. Laziness is not actually the word. Laziness means minimizing the bodily labor and engaged in spiritual work. If you ask people, "Please come to our temple," who is coming? Because he says, "I have no time." But we are not working hard. So real aim of life is to... In German, I think, or somewhere there is classification: "Lazy intelligent, busy intelligent, lazy fool, and busy fool." So at the present moment (laughs) the whole world is full of busy fools. But the first-class man, he is lazy intelligent. Lazy and intelligent, that is first-class man. And second-class man, busy intelligent. And third class means lazy fool and fourth class means busy fool. When the fools are busy... Just like nowadays they are busy but they are fools.
Indian man (1): Does it say somewhere in the Bhagavad-gītā that we shouldn't eat meat?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Yes. Ahara-śuddhi. There are three kinds, four kinds of ahara: sattvika, rājasika, tamasika. Everything is there. The classification of ahara. Meat is tamasikāhara, fourth class. It is not first class.
Indian man (1): When the Aryan civilization was there in the past, Swamiji, were there also such kind of economic problems?
Prabhupāda: There was no economic problem. Every time... Always this system is followed: cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭām (BG 4.13). And it is the duty of the government to see that this classification is properly being executed. That is the duty of the government. Secular state means that as you like, you can become. But if you claim to become a brāhmaṇa, you must act as a brāhmaṇa, not that you act as a śūdra, bangi, and also you are brāhmaṇa. No. That will not be allowed by the government.
Prabhupāda: Ugra-karma. It has been condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā as ugra-karma, laboring very hard for livelihood. This industry means engage the poor worker class to work very hard, and there is huge profit, and some directors of the capitalists, they take it. And they have one dozen motorcars, palatial building, no work, simply wine and woman, that's all. This is going on. And the others, they are seeing: "There is no classification, neither real brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśya. So he is enjoying like that. He has got so many cars. He has got such a nice apartment. Why not me?" There is struggle. This is actual picture. Our Vedic advice is that make life very simple. You must have some means of livelihood. Keep your body and soul together. So according to quality, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), there must be division and then simple life. The real aim is tam abhyarcya, how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Richard: What you write about and have studied.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Richard: What would you classify, ah, other works, say, the Koran or the Bible or any other religious...
Prabhupāda: Well they are also aiming to this aim of life.
Richard: They are in the same aim.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Kern: Did you then begin, after you finished the university, did you begin your writing?
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, I was family man. But even one is family man, he's trained up how to become God conscious. So that was the.... That is, practically every Indian, at least in our time, they were trained up how to become God conscious in the family life. Therefore there is classification—the brāhmaṇa, the kṣatriya, the vaiśya. So these four classes, that first-class man, brāhmaṇa, the brain..., taking instruction from the first-class man. And then the third grade, the productive class. So you read there the third class.
Devotee: Good idea. You didn't compromise.
Prabhupāda: Why compromise? (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I think the nondevotees would like to be classified in one of those four categories.
Prabhupāda: But they are. They may not, they may like or not like, it doesn't matter, but they are. (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...that even persons who come to Kṛṣṇa with material desires, although...
Prabhupāda: They are pious.
Indian man (3): My position you mean in relation to Kṛṣṇa or in relation to the world?
Prabhupāda: No, in relation to the world. In relationship with the world, therefore Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). What is your quality? Then you are classified as a brāhmaṇa, as a kṣatriya, as a vaiśya, as a śūdra. Then your duty. First of all you must know what you are, what is your position. Then there is duty.
Prabhupāda: Caste system will remain. Just like truthfulness. So all over the world you'll find somebody who is truthful. Why do you take it: "His father was truthful, therefore he is truthful."? This is nonsense. This is nonsense. Kṛṣṇa never said that. The father may be Hiranyakasipu, but his son is Prahlāda. Or a son... Not that the, one has to become exactly like the father. It may be. There is every possibility, but it is not a fact that the son becomes like the father. It is not fact. So similarly, the first class man is truthful. Now, wherever you find a truthful man, you classify him as brāhmaṇa. That is wanted. Why do you take that "Here is a son of truthful man; therefore he is brāhmaṇa"? That is misconception. You have to pick up the truthful men all over the world and classify them as brāhmaṇa. That we are doing.
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa says that, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā, guṇa-karma... You pick up the quality of men and put them in the brahminical class, and then next, kṣatriya class, then vaiśya class, then śūdra class. But you cannot abolish that system. That is a false attempt. Because more or less, there will be a class of men who are truthful. You cannot abolish. More or less, there will be a class of men who are sinful. So as soon as you want to pick up from a family, then it is mistake, miscalculated. That caste system should be abolished. But real classification... Not caste. It is classification. Intelligent class of men, or truthful class of men, the fighter class of men, that will continue all over the world. You cannot abolish it. Even if you abolish caste system in India, you cannot abolish the class of truthful men. That is not possible. In spite of so much degradation, a class of men will remain truthful, a class of men will remain sinful. More or less. You cannot abolish this. So this is false attempt. And this caste system is also false. It is not based on the right description of caste system.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You're saying, rather, it's a classification according to the quality of a man's...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is wanted. That must be there.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So can all people have an equal interest in religion despite their different classifications?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That I have already explained, that any human civilized man, he has got some religion. So religion, basic principle of religion is with reference to God. So here is God, What God says, if you take that system, then it will be perfect, not only for the Hindus, for Christian, for Mohammedans, for everyone. And that is being practically done in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We have got devotees from all groups of human society and they are taking to it. It is practical. There is no difficulty. So Hindus, Muslims, Christian, everyone take to this Kṛṣṇa religion, Kṛṣṇite. Kṛṣṇian. (laughter) Not Christian, but Kṛṣṇian.
Hari-śauri: We can't stop meat-eating, but we can stop the unnecessary slaughter of animals.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That would be a great step forward.
Prabhupāda: So our business is to stop slaughter. Meat-eating we cannot stop. Certain persons, they must eat. They are fourth-class, and then fifth-class men. There are four classifications—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra and caṇḍāla. Caṇḍālas, they will remain, and they are eating. Let them eat meat. That is the system in India still. It is not that in India nobody's eating meat. The cobbler class, they eat; the caṇḍāla class, they eat.
Dr. Sharma: What would you classify as demigods, then?
Prabhupāda: Demigod means just like you or me, ordinary living being, but they are very pious. On account of their piety they have got very good post. Just like janma... There are four: to get birth in very high, aristocratic family; to become very learned scholar; to become beautiful in bodily feature. Janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrī (SB 1.8.26): high parentage, birth, to take birth in aristocratic family, in brāhmaṇa family, or very exalted royal family. This is janma. And śruta, to become very learned scholar. Janma, aiśvarya, to become very rich. Janmaiśvarya-śruta, śruta means education, and śrī, bodily beauty. These things are obtained on account of piety, pious activities. And just the opposite, low-class family, lowborn, no money, always poverty-stricken, no education, no bodily beauty, these are the results of impious activities. So the demigods means on account of their pious activities they get the situation in higher planet where the duration of life is ten thousands of years, and their one day is equal to our six months. Such ten thousands of years.
Rādhāvallabha: There's a classification of animals called autotroph(?). An autotroph is...
Prabhupāda: First of all, you study your animal, whether your father and mother is the same. Then go to other animals. First of all your animal, you study first.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say stone can be in both places but life, living entities cannot.
Bali-mardana: They classify organic and inorganic.
Prabhupāda: They may talk all rubbish, foolish things, we don't believe it.
Ali: How do you classify dreams?
Prabhupāda: Dreams is mental, subtle platform. Your gross body is not working, but your subtle mind is working. That's all. It is material.
Prabhupāda: So human life is not meant for spoiling like hog's life. Therefore niyataṁ kuru karma tvam. You should classify yourself amongst the four divisions, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), and then your prescribed duties are there. If you want to become a brāhmaṇa, then śamo damas titikṣā ārjavam, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). If you want to be kṣatriya, tejaḥ... What is that? Tejaḥ śauryaṁ yujyaṁ yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam īśvara-bhāvaś ca kṣātraṁ karma svabhāva-jam. If you want to be a vaiśya, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). And if you want to remain a śūdra, paricaryātmakaṁ karma śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam. And that is prescribed duty. You classify yourself, either as a brāhmaṇa or as a kṣatriya or a vaiśya, by quality, not by caste or by whims, no. Actually by qualification. Then you engage yourself in that duty. That is niyataṁ karma tvam.
Prabhupāda: Bhakta. So karmī, jñānī, yogi, and bhakta. So out of these four classes of men, the three classes means karmī, jñānī and yogi, they are restless. Because they actually did not find out what is the solution. One after another, there are different classes, there are classification. One is better than the other. That is another thing. But none of them... They are still misled. A karmī, he is thinking that "I am poor man. If I become rich man, I will be happy." He is thinking in that way. Jñānī is thinking that "Poor and rich doesn't matter. I am Brahman. I am spirit soul. If I merge into the Supreme Brahman I will be happy." Yogi is thinking that "The Absolute is present everywhere in His personal feature. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). So if I become one with Him, I will be happy." But still there is a demand, "If I become like this." So so long he is not self-realized, he will try to become something and so long he'll try to become something, then there will be restlessness. There cannot be happiness. And when he comes to the realization point that "Why I am trying to become something, I am this and this that is my position," then he becomes happy. That is bhakti.
Dr. Patel: We have actually imbibed their spirit of special, I mean, arrangement or management. Otherwise, up to the other day, we were well-classified. After doing that fifty or hundred years, perhaps, we have lost our real mooring.
Prabhupāda: No. It is necessary that in the society all classes of men must be there. Then it will be in order, on order.
Dr. Patel: The classes are complementary.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: "My word is one. I do not change my word."
Gargamuni: So a newspaper editor, a lawyer...
Prabhupāda: And a prostitute. (laughs) He classified them in one category.
Gargamuni: Especially these newspapers. When you give an interview, they always print something else.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gargamuni: They never print exactly what one says.
| Page Title: | Classified (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Serene |
| Created: | 14 of May, 2010 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=30, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 30 |