Go to Vanipedia | Go to Vanisource | Go to Vanimedia


Vaniquotes - the compiled essence of Vedic knowledge


Claim (Conversations 1974 - 1975)

Expressions researched:
"claim" |"claimant" |"claimants" |"claimed" |"claiming" |"claims"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1974, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: No, actually, one scientist just looked at a telescope and saw it coming. And that's what they call discovery. And of course, he got the comet named after him.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Karandhara: The scientist. His name was Kahotek. So he discovered it. So the comet is named after him.

Prabhupāda: And if it is mentioned elsewhere?

Karandhara: I'm sure he'll want to keep his claim.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Karandhara: I'm sure he'll want to keep his claim.

Prabhupāda: No, if... In some astrological book, if it is mentioned there?

Karandhara: Scientists probably won't accept it. They think if they don't discover it, then it's not bona fide.

Prajāpati: Unless one of them discovers it in the book.

Karandhara: Ah. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Prajāpati: If one of them discovers it in the śāstras, then, oh, they'll...

Karandhara: They say they've looked through all the old books and the old records and they haven't found any mention of it.

Prabhupāda: I think in the Indian astronomical calendar there must be mention.

Room Conversation -- February 6, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Guest (1): Oh, I mean I'll get that much. That could be as good amount as you (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Where? Where? Your claim?

Guest (1): Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: You have to, you have to pay so much stamping fee.

Guest (1): No. The maximum stamp duty to be paid is fifteen thousand. Even if you've got a claim of fifteen crore, fifteen thousand is the maximum stamp duty you have to pay. You don't have to pay more.

Prabhupāda: Fifteen thousand you have to pay?

Guest (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) ...in this age, Kali.

Guest (1): (Hindi) ...he owes me money and I couldn't get my money back from him.

Prabhupāda: If you have no money, then you cannot get justice, because he's claiming it is right claim, but if he had no fifteen thousand, then he could not claim it. Fifteen thousand is there, then (indistinct), so on , so on. So anyone who has no money, he cannot get justice in Kali-yuga.

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Haṁsadūta: That's important...

Prabhupāda: That is important. Otherwise every work is preaching. See that everyone is engaged. There was an advertisement by the railroad department, their monogram was a wheel of carriage and they have written that every employee of the railroad should see that the wheel is running on. Wheel is running on. Now suppose in the office the clerks are working, so how they will see the wheel is running on? Because in the office of railway there is some complaint, there is some claim, there so many things... But that is depending on their wheel. So they should expedite their business so that wheel may not stop, it must go on. It is very nice instruction. So the wheel is going on. Suppose some station has asked for ten wagons immediately, and that requires the sanction of the divisional superintendent. That is his office. So the clerk should help the progress that immediately the sanction is done. Then the wheel will go on. Do you understand? So everyone can help that the railway wheel is going on. Although apparently it will appear that "What this clerk has to do with the wheel going on?" Is it clear?

Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Catur-vidhā bhajante mām...

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Dr. Patel: I think we are of one of those four categories. Or we are also mūḍha?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no.

Dr. Patel: No. At least, give us some claim. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: You are, you are catur-vidhā.

Guest (3): Arthārthī.

Prabhupāda: Not arthārthī. Jñānī. No, I must give the proper position. Jñānī...

Dr. Patel: You have, you have admitted at the end, before these boys.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Dr. Patel: You have rehabilitated me. (laughter) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...pious, how you would come daily to see the maṅgala-ārati? This is the proof.

Morning Walk -- March 24, 1974, Bombay:

Guest (1): Or we are the servant of our ego.

Prabhupāda: So the position is constitutionally I am servant, but at the present moment, being conditioned by the material nature, I am giving service to my senses. Hare Kṛṣṇa. But if I give service to the master of the senses, Hṛṣīkeśa... Because senses, they are not independent. They are also dependent. Suppose I am now moving my hands, but if the master of my hand, Kṛṣṇa, paralyzes it, no more moving. Neither I can renovate the moving capacity of my hand. Therefore I am not master. Although I am claiming I am master of my hand, master of my leg, but actually I am not. The master is different. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's another name is Hṛṣīkeśa, master of the senses. Therefore the service should be transferred. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate (CC Madhya 19.170). We have engaged our senses for different purposes, but when we engage our senses for the service of the master of the senses, that is called bhakti. Bhakti is also service, but it is not service to the senses, but it is service to the master of the senses. This is bhakti. So constitutionally I am servant. I cannot become master. I have to serve. So if I don't serve the master of the senses, then I will have to serve the senses. This is our position.

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Chandobhai: I think that is the crux of the whole thing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So īśvara... That, this, this, I was discussing the other day. Bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san. Īśvara. Bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi sann avyayātmā. So Kṛṣṇa is always īśvara. We are īśvara in the family or in the office or in my society. But we are not that type of īśvara, that I can live within the heart of everyone. Therefore there is distinction between this īśvara and we īśvara. The Māyāvādīs, they do not understand this. He claims that "I am the same īśvara." But do you remain in everyone's heart? Can you study, can you study what I am thinking now? But still, they will say, "I am the same." This is Māyāvādī philosophy's defect.

Chandobhai: Difference.

Prabhupāda: No, this is defect. They do not understand their incapability, and still, they claim, "I am the same, one, So 'ham." This is their deficiency. Here is the de... īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe... (BG 18.61). Do you stay... Can you stay, can you say what I am thinking now? Then why you are claiming that īśvara? You are a rascal. Why you are claiming. Namaskāra. And īśvara, īśvara means he knows... That is also described in Bhagavad-gītā... What is that? Kṣetrajña, kṣetrajña.

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Chandobhai: Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata.

Prabhupāda: Ah! Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. Kṣetra-kṣetrajña-jñānam. Kṣetra means this body, and kṣetrajña means one who knows. Kṣetrajña. Now, you know the pains and pleasure of your body. I know the pains and pleasure of my body. But I do not know the pains and pleasure of your body.

Chandobhai: And the Lord knows the pains and pleasures of everybody.

Prabhupāda: Therefore He says, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. That is the difference. But the Māyāvādī will not accept this.

Chandobhai: Kṣetra-kṣetrajñayor jñānaṁ tad jñānam...

Prabhupāda: That is jñānam. They are in ajñāna, still, they are claiming that "We are jñānī." You see. This is the defect.

Morning Walk -- March 29, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why not yourself?

Dr. Patel: ...on that point I'm going to (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: These rascals, asuras, they do not know what is the goal of life. But in which way we should direct? These rascals, they do not know. Still, they become public leaders, asuras. Na viduḥ. How to dissuade people to stop this? Just like we are doing: no illicit sex. Nivṛtti. Nivṛtti. No illicit sex, no intoxication, no gambling, no meat-eating. This is nivṛtti. And pravṛtti, take to Kṛṣṇa. This is pravṛtti, nivṛtti. But the rascal demons, leaders, they do not know these things. Pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca na viduḥ asura-jana (BG 16.7). They do not know it. Still, they become leaders. They do not know in which way people should be directed, and still they claim to be public leaders.

Morning Walk -- March 30, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is the difference. That is the difference. Paramātmā and jīvātmā, what is the difference? Kṛṣṇa says that sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. I... This is very practical, that I am the jīvātmā. I am living in this body. I know the business of my body, pains and pleasures, but I do not know what is the pains and pleasures of your body. You also do not know what is the pains and pleasures... Therefore we are individual. But Paramātmā, because He's there, He knows what is your pains and pleasure, what is my pains and pleasure. Not only you, but all living entities. That is Paramātmā. So those who are falsely claiming that "I am Paramātmā," this is the test: whether you are cognizant of everything?

Dr. Patel: Right.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But you cannot falsely claim that "I am Paramātmā," or "I am God." Whether you have got this all-pervading knowledge? This is the only test to the pretenders that he is God, he is Paramātmā.

Dr. Patel: But that is... They will say that kṣetra-jña, not kṣetra. Mahā-bhūtāny ahaṅkāro buddhir avyaktam eva...

Prabhupāda: Now he comes to the material elements.

Morning Walk -- March 30, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Dr. Patel: Amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam, ācāryopāsanaṁ śaucaṁ... (BG 13.8).

Prabhupāda: So amānitvam. Instead of becoming amānitvam, these Māyāvādīs say, "I am God." Just see. This is amānitvam. He falsely claims that "I have become God now." Does it mean amānitvam? And here, Vaiṣṇava says, gopī-bhartuḥ pāda-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ (CC Madhya 13.80). This is amānitvam. This is amān... "I am servant of the servant." And these rascals are claiming, "I am God." This is amānitvam.

Dr. Patel: Adambhitvam.

Prabhupāda: How much dambhi, proud, they are! They are claiming to be God.

Dr. Patel: Ahiṁsā.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Ahiṁsā means he's envious of Kṛṣṇa. He's envious. Not ahiṁsā. His hiṁsā begins that "Why Kṛṣṇa should alone be God? I am also God."

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel:

pitāham asya jagato
mātā dhātā pitāmahaḥ
vedyaṁ pavitram oṁkāra
ṛk sāma yajur eva ca
(BG 9.17)

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Everything, these Vedas, that I am." Vedaiś cāham, aham eva vedyaḥ. So these... There are rascals. They claim that "We are Vedic student. We don't believe in Kṛṣṇa. We don't believe in Bhagavad-gītā." You know this rascal society?

Dr. Patel:

gatir bhartā prabhuḥ sākṣī
nivāsaḥ śaraṇaṁ suhṛt
prabhavaḥ pralayaḥ sthānaṁ
nidhānaṁ bījam avyayam
(BG 9.18)

"Everything is I. I am death as well as I am life."

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Morning Walk -- April 4, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is avatāra. So nobody can compare. In the Vedic literature it is said, na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate na tat-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate. Nobody can be equal to Him. Sama, sama means equal. Na tat-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate: "Nobody is greater than Him, nobody is equal to Him." That is Kṛṣṇa. So as soon as one claims that "I am also Kṛṣṇa," he is a bogus immediately.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Or daridra-nārāyaṇa, that is the same.

Girirāja: (reads synonyms to:) "viṣve—the Visvadevas..." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...clearly described, what is God, what is the distinction between God and other demigods, living entity. Everything is clearly explained. So you can talk all nonsense without Bhagavad-gītā. That is another chapter. But if you claim that "We read Bhagavad-gītā," you cannot say like that. That is our propaganda. If you actually have read Bhagavad-gītā, then you cannot say all this nonsense. (break)

Dr. Patel: ...common features of Kṛṣṇa are common to all paramparās. It can't be different from one another.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Paramparā. He says, "As soon as this paramparā was lost, the Bhagavad-gītā was lost." Naṣṭaḥ, it is said, naṣṭaḥ. "Therefore I am taking you again as paramparā." You see? If you do not accept...

Dr. Patel: What you say... I mean... Listen. This is one of the way of seeing things.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, you see... open, open (indistinct)

Dr. Patel: Kṛṣṇa is so multifarious and so multiple energies He has got that only ekasmin...

Prabhupāda: No, no, here it is said, in the Fourth... This is Fourth Chapter?

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But why they take the position of a teacher? They should not take the position of a teacher. They should remain foolish, that "I have still to learn."

Indian Man (1): Ah, that is the significance. They should not say that "I am already perfect." That is the sig... They should not claim like that.

Prabhupāda: That is our protest, that "You are foolish. Why you are taking the position of a teacher? You are foolish. You are rascal. You don't take the position of a teacher. Then you are a cheater. First of all make your life..." Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, janma sārthaka kari kara paropakāra: "First of all make your life successful. Then you become a teacher." Paropakāra. You are a fool number one and you are going to make paropakāra? Daridra-nārāyaṇa. (laughter) (break) ...when they take the position of teacher, they not only do harm to themselves but to others. So our protest is that "You are a fool, rascal. You go to hell. Why you induce others to go to hell?"

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Because she was killed by Kṛṣṇa, the whole body has become sanctified. So when the body was burned, there was good aroma. (break)

Girirāja: "...aroma was due to her being killed by Kṛṣṇa." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...that qualification, satya, always truthful. (break)

Girirāja: "...violent and they never claimed any false prestige. They were all bona fide brāhmaṇas, and there was no reason to think that their blessings would be useless."

Prabhupāda: (break) ...social divisions. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). The other varṇas, they would give simply to the brāhmaṇas charity. And the brāhmaṇas were so advanced that simply by their blessing, they will get all benefit. So there must be a class of men who can actually benefit simply by blessing and the society must maintain them. This is real society. And everyone is śūdra, engaged in technology—then what benefit you will get? Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. There must be a brahminical class, a kṣatriya class, a vaiśya class, a śūdra class. Not that all śūdras. Then what will be going on? That is the condition. Everyone is being educated as śūdra. Then what benefit you will get? That is the defect. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Therefore there must be a brahminical class.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That is your argument. But God says that "Thou shalt not kill." You cannot argue. This is the first theory... Suppose if I say something to you, order, you cannot argue. That is not obedience. Obedience means without argument accepted. That is obedience. That is love.

Satsvarūpa: The other important point is that we love God not for getting some reward. You say that the other important thing is that this person claims to be pious, but he approaches God for material reward.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is business. That is not love. I go to somebody and flatter him to get something. Just like a shopkeeper does also like that. He flatters the customers in so many ways to sell goods so that he can make some profit. So there is no question of love.

Akṣayānanda: But that "I am following Jesus Christ and I am a vegetarian," so that's all right, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: I am following Jesus Christ?

Akṣayānanda: That "I am a vegetarian. I do not eat meat. I don't kill. I do not kill."

Prabhupāda: Oh, therefore I am a better Christian, better than you. Love... Therefore the Bhāgavata is perfect. Bhāgavata says that... Bhagavad-gītā says... Kṛṣṇa says that patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). So we are obeying Kṛṣṇa. We offer patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ. And we eat the remains of the foodstuff. Therefore we love. That is the proof. But you are not loving Jesus Christ because you are disobeying the order.

Room Conversation -- April 26, 1974, Tirupati:

Satsvarūpa: He said, "You write in your books that your movement by Lord Caitanya is the..., as if it's the most exclusive thing." He said, "But actually, in India the Rāmānuja is a more prominent Vaiṣṇava sect." So, as I understand our claim, it's based on the fact that we worship Kṛṣṇa in a higher form, in Kṛṣṇaloka, and they worship Kṛṣṇa which leads to Vaikuṇṭha.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...quarter there is no cinema song. Bhaja gopālam. (there is music playing in background, recording of a boy or woman singing "bhaja gopāla")

Satsvarūpa: Śrīnivāsa (?) said every... (break) ...is controlled by the temple here. Even the government doesn't control.

Prabhupāda: This is all temple here around (indistinct). (break)

Satsvarūpa: ...prominence. (break)

Indian man: We came here yesterday. We went to the temple three times and just for a long...

Prabhupāda: Oh, very good.

Indian man: This is my wife and daughter. You came yesterday?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I came yesterday at about eleven.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Banana leaf. So that also required by God's mercy.

Dr. Patel: Nobody says that he does himself. If he says, he's a fool. But what I mean to say is from that way... And the government of Ceylon has (indistinct) the world over, this method. There was a big row about it. This boy approached the Bombay Municipal Corporation (indistinct) they say... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...scientist.

Dr. Patel: Scientist, that you say. Einstein never claimed that he is... Einstein was a great bhakta. Einstein is the grandfather...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: ...of the modern science. He never claimed that anything can be done by man. Einstein has always said it is God who does it. Still you say that "Scientists are atheists. Fight them"?

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Dr. Patel: I don't think that is right statement.

Prabhupāda: No, no, there are many scientists like..., but generally they think in their way. Just like modern scientists, they are trying to prove: from chemicals, life.

Room Conversation -- May 20, 1974, Vrndavana:

Indian man (2): I told him about the drafts, you see, that you made the other day. I said, "Prabhupāda has only agreed. It was so magnanimous of him, so magnanimous."

Prabhupāda: Yes, I told you Friday, you write, I shall sign it. And why they are agitating and stopped such a function? And that is very regrettable. Gosvāmī means vāco vegaṁ krodha-vegaṁ viṣaheta. If there is some krodha, you should tolerate. Now here is a Vaiṣṇava, he has done so much for Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and the reception was there, and he stopped. How he is gosvāmī? He expressed his krodha in that very moment, just to take retaliation. It is not gosvāmī. What do you think? Krodha-vegam. It is a krodha, but he could not tolerate that krodha-vegam. He retaliated at the right moment and to a person, fit person who was to be honored. Just see. And he claims to be gosvāmī. The first business is vāco vegaṁ krodha-vegam. The Vaikuṇṭha mentality is that if one is serving—I have read it in Bhāgavata—Kṛṣṇa better than somebody else, he would simply appreciate that "Kṛṣṇa has so much favored him. Oh, how fortunate he is. When I shall be able?" That is Vaikuṇṭha mentality. And the material mentality is, "Oh, he has advanced so much. How to come down him?" That is material. This is the difference between Vaikuṇṭha mentality. So his business is how to come down. So he is not a gosvāmī. At least I will not accept. What do you think? Am I right or wrong?

Morning Walk -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: What is that God? Tell me.

Yogeśvara: Well, it's like the Guru Maharaji people. They say they've seen Guru Maharaji lifting Govardhana Hill and displaying universal form and so many miracles. They say they have seen Guru Maharaji doing all the miracles that Kṛṣṇa claims to have done.

Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa, when Kṛṣṇa is present, when He lifted the Govardhana Hill, everyone saw. Where is your rascal Guru Mahārāja doing that, everyone can see? When Kṛṣṇa in Vṛndāvana, He lifted the Govardhana Hill. All the inhabitants saw it. (break)

Atreya Ṛṣi: ...arising from Kṛṣṇa's pastimes proves that atheists cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Because they are atheists, they don't want to accept Him as God. Therefore they will not...

Prabhupāda: Atheist do not accept God anywhere. So atheist is different thing. Atheist is atheist. Āsuriṁ. Āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. Atheist has no knowledge.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Haihaya: And we are feeding too.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Well, that is secondary. That is secondary.

Dhanañjaya: But their philosophy is first you feed them; then give them knowledge,

Prabhupāda: But why...? You cannot feed even. Just like I wanted rice, I wanted fruit. You could not give me. So why do you claim that you can feed everyone? That you cannot. You are falsely claiming. If you think that simply supplying meat, everyone will be satisfied, that is your nonsense.

Haihaya: Yes, they give. But they say you must prostitute for it. You must prostitute for this food which we give you.

Prabhupāda: So is that very good proposal?

Haihaya: It's worst thing that one can propose. It's just to push man to degenerate himself because of this food, little food.

Prabhupāda: It is my practical experience. Śyāmasundara had to waste at least two to three hours to secure rice, fruits. Only milk and butter could we get. And then we had to wait in the... They would not allow us to cook unless they had finished. This was the difficulty. Practically I have suffered. All their claims are bogus. The people are not happy there. The young men are not allowed to go outside the country. Just see. All freedom lost. All freedom lost. It is a government of terrorism, that's all. And whatever the Communists do, simply by terrorizing that's all. They have no gentleman's method. Terrorizing. (break) ...misleading other rascals that "You come this way; you will be happy." And the rascals are being misled. They are accepting. This is going on. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). The blind man is asking other blind men, "Come on, I shall cross you the street." But because he is rascal, he does not ask, "Sir, you are also blind. how will you lead us?" They cannot inquire. Or he does not know that "This man is asking me, who is willing to take the leadership, he is also blind." This blind man does not know, do not know. They do not know. This is going on.

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Guru-gaurāṅga: If the people here are so sinful, how is it that they have so many nice facilities? It will go away soon, very soon.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. As they increase their sinful activities, these facilities will be taken away. Therefore we propose that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, and we are all sons of Kṛṣṇa. Just cooperate in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then the whole world will be happy. This is our proposal. Why do you think it is American, it is Swiss, it is Indian? Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Let us become obedient to Kṛṣṇa, and because we are sons of Kṛṣṇa, let us enjoy the property of Kṛṣṇa. Immediately there will be happiness. I have several times said that the, still the whole world can produce so much grains and foodstuff, ten times of the population can be fed, ten times. In Africa, in Australia, and even in America, so much, I means, prospect of producing food. But they will not cooperate. They will kill the animal. They will throw the grain to the sea, and claim, "It is my land. It is my property."

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Guru-gaurāṅga: In that agricultural report it said that if they were to eat all the grains that they give to the cows and animals, they could get twenty times more calories than by eating meat.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Wrong civilization, rascal civilization. And this is due to this rascaldom, nationalism, "This is my land." And at any moment he will be kicked out. Still, he claims, "It is my land." Ahaṁ mameti, janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). This is the illusion. Nothing belongs to him; still he is fighting, "This is mine. This is mine." "I" and "mine." Identifying himself with this body, "I", and wrongly conceiving that "This is mine." This is the basic principle of wrong civilization. Both things are... Nothing belongs to him. Suppose I have come here in Switzerland. If I remain here for one month and I claim, "Oh, this is mine," what is this? So similarly, I come as guest. Everyone comes as guest in the womb of his mother and lives here for fifty years. He is claiming, "It is mine." When, when, when it became yours? The land was long, long time before your birth. How it became yours? But they have no sense. "It is mine." "Fight." "My land, my nation, my family, my society." In this way, wasting time. These things have been introduced by these western mlecchas. In the Vedic civilization there is no such thing as nationalism. You won't find. Have you seen in the Bhagavad-gītā any word, "nationalism?" No such thing. This is the original ideas of the tribes. In the jungle there is... Just like in Africa there are still groups of tribes. This is most crude idea of civilization, nationalism. This is tribalized. It is nothing but development of just tribalism. And eating also the same. They are not advanced in civilization. This nationalism is another form of tribalism, that's all.

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: (laughing) First of all, they were importing European masters, and now they are importing dogs. Now they will have to import European brāhmaṇas. Yes. Because in India all the brāhmaṇas are now finished. So for their ritualistic ceremony they will have to import from Europe, America. Long ago... Long ago, not long ago, about four, five years ago, I wrote this fact. (break) ...the communists, as they making, that the state is the proprietor of everything, so what is the harm of accepting God as the proprietor of everything? What is the harm? He is giving up his own right. The state is the proprietor. So why not make "God is the proprietor"? What is the harm? And actually, God is the proprietor. Now, this lake, it is not made by the state. It is made by God. They are claiming this is Swiss lake. What is that?

Yogeśvara: Geneva lake.

Prabhupāda: Geneva lake. And a few steps forward, a French lake. So either to the French or Geneva, it does not belong. It belongs to God. He's a fool. Why don't you say, "God's lake"?

Yogeśvara: We could propose them that they change the name, but I think they might be afraid it would drive away the tourists.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam... (CC Adi 17.21). (end)

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Robert Gouiran: But the scientists know that science is not complete, but we try to do it as the nearest approach we could do.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no.

Robert Gouiran: Nobody claims to be complete.

Prabhupāda: It is just like the children. The children are trying to build castle on the sea beach of sand, very busy. Two, three hours, so long the father, mother is there, they're busy. But as soon as the father, mother goes, "Hey, come on," everything finished. So this scientific struggle is exactly like that, all childish, children's play. Therefore this word is used, prakṛti-sthāni karṣati: "The living entities, they are trying to create so many things, but it is simply struggle for existence." It has no value. The same example: a children is building castles, skyscraper building. They're thinking, "This is skyscraper building." But what is the value of it?

Robert Gouiran: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Then what... You have done the work of a laborer. That's all. You have taken ingredients from God and worked hard and transformed into a step. That's all. Your creation means just like carpenter creates a furniture. That's all. That is his creation. Then that is... The economic law says that man cannot create anything. He can simply transform. These trees, has man created these trees? Why do they claim man has created everything?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: But they will say that they made the garden.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They will say that they made a very nice garden.

Prabhupāda: That's all. That is the business of gardener, servant, not creator. That is the business of the servant. Just like I keep a gardener servant, and "Do like this. Do like that." That is not he is creator. It is my money which has created. Therefore it is Kṛṣṇa's, everything. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that you have not created anything. You are servant. You are working, and Kṛṣṇa is giving you your subsistence. That's all. So why don't you accept that you are servant of God instead of claiming that you have created. What you have created? This is our challenge. Am I right or wrong?

Morning Walk -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Ah. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ. So He is sitting in everyone's heart, and He's giving intelligence. And because the intelligence comes from God, therefore one is more intelligent, one is less intelligent. Because intelligence is not his. It is by the mercy of God one gets more intelligence, one gets less intelligence. So intelligence is supplied by God.

Yogeśvara: Yet... But they claim to have found a way of making people biologically more intelligent now.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yogeśvara: The scientists claim that they have found a way of making babies more intelligent.

Prabhupāda: That, they are dipping in so many things. Therefore we kick on their face, that say, promise, so many things, but cannot do anything. That is the defect of the so-called scientists. They are promising, "By scientific method, we shall make man deathless." Do they not say?

Devotees: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But have they made him deathless? Simply a dream. That's all. Utopian dream.

Bhagavān: Even if they succeed in one area of doing something they promise...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Paramahaṁsa: People argue that "God has given us our intelligence and our senses, and therefore we must enjoy."

Prabhupāda: Yes. You enjoy. The dog is also enjoying. What you are enjoying more than the dog? Dog also eat. You also eat. Dog also sleep. You also sleep. Dogs also enjoy sex life. You also enjoy sex life. Dog is also afraid of his enemy. You are also afraid of your enemy. So what is the difference between you and dog? Why you claim that you have become very great? What is the difference between the dog's mentality and your mentality? God has given you intelligence to understand that you are nothing, God is everything. Just realize it. That is intelligence. That is intelligence. When you understand that "God is great. I am His servant," that is real reali... That is his intelligence. Otherwise, he's exactly like the dog. What is his intelligence?

Paramahaṁsa: But people today have reasoned God is dead with their intelligence.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: But this opinion is followed by all the ācāryas.

Bhagavān: This is Kṛṣṇa's opinion. (French)

Prabhupāda: India's culture, India's culture depends on the ācāryas. Just like Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Śaṅkarācārya, Nimbārka, Viṣṇu Svāmī, like that. So in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, ācāryopāsanam. So India's culture is still, up to date, it is followed by the ācāryas. Anyone you find in India who claims to become a Hindu, he must have followed the ācārya. So all the ācāryas accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says all the Christians and all the priests, that they tell to him from, that from two thousand years, the truth is in the Evangel. But still, he says...

Yogeśvara: Just like we're saying that all the ācāryas have accepted Kṛṣṇa, he says so also in the Christian religion, all the priests and all the Christians have said that Christ is the ultimate, as it is said in the Evangel. (French)

Prabhupāda: Yes, we have several times explained that Christ says that he is the son of God. So we don't deny it.

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Paramahaṁsa: They can say, "We don't know Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: You don't know Kṛṣṇa, but it belongs to somebody. He may be named as Kṛṣṇa or something else. That doesn't matter. But it is, it does not belong to you. How you can deny it? You have come here... Suppose I have come here, in Paris. I stay here for one week, two. Does it mean Paris is mine? Similarly, you come from the womb of your mother and stay here, say, fifty years. That is mean yours? The same example. Does it mean that the world belongs to you? Why you are claiming, "This is France," "This is Europe," "This is America," "This is mine," "This is mine..."? Before your birth it was there, and when you go, it will remain there. So how you claim that it is yours? So you don't... You must know as it remained, it was there before my birth, and it will remain after my departure. Then how it belongs to you? What is the answer?

Paramahaṁsa: It belongs to the man who created it.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Paramahaṁsa: It belongs to the man who created it and is conscious of its origin.

Prabhupāda: Who created? Who created? You created this stones and sand?

Paramahaṁsa: Nature.

Room Conversation with Russian Orthodox Church Representative -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Karandhara: No, in this instance this man is... It's not as much that he's an impersonalist as that he has no clear idea one way or the other. He's ignorant. An impersonalist is someone in the classic sense who has... He's aware of the Vaiṣṇava philosophy, but he rejects that, that God is definitely not a person, and he takes that as being a lower conception.

Bhagavān: In ignorance, though, even though he's in ignorance, he is hurting people due to his ignorance by... He's claiming to be a teacher, and even though he may be innocent or ignorant, because he's in that position of leader, he's actually hurting people, wasting their life.

French Devotee: He left, Śrīla Prabhupāda, because he was very afraid that we were right.

Bhagavān: He said he had another engagement.

Paramahaṁsa: In the world today it seems as if, just like men take advantage of women and make them topless and bottomless, also they try and encourage people like this to be leaders of religion. That way the mass of people don't take any real interest. They do this in Russia too. They kill the sincere religious leaders, and they put their own men as religious leader, and it just sort of undermines the whole purity and the importance in the instruction, and then no one repeats it.

Karandhara: In the West also, in the past ten years there's been a resurgence of what's called fundamentalism. For so long the Christian liturgy, the Christian doctrine, got so hodge-podge and so wishy-washy that people were leaving because there was simply nothing there solid for them to grasp onto. Now fundamentalism, or the very basic principles that God is the Almighty and that we are sinners and if we don't repent, God's going to strike us down with wrath and anger, that basic principle of fear of God, that is receiving new support. Many people are coming back to that because even though it's a very vague thing, still it's something definite. "God is there, and if I do something wrong, He's going to cut me down," rather than, "Well, nothing's wrong, nothing's right," it's all hodge-podge, wish wash. People can't grasp onto that. There's nothing for them to...

Prabhupāda: That is Māyāvāda, "nothing wrong, nothing right. Everything is all right," Vivekananda's philosophy.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

difference. So when we act to carry out the orders of the Supreme, that is self-realization, not for this body.

Professor Durckheim: There is only one way toward peace, through self-realization of those who are responsible.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Self-realization, that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that one should understand that "I am not enjoyer. Nobody is enjoyer." That is false. They are trying, endeavor, for enjoying this world, and that is false. Real enjoyer is the Supreme Lord. We are trying to occupy this land, that land. "This is Germany. This is England. This is France. This is India. This is my land, worshipable. Land is worshipable. It is my land." But he should know that no land belongs to us. Everything belongs to God. And this is a fact. The land is not created by us. The ocean is not created by us. Then why should we claim, "This is German ocean, and this is English ocean"? This is all false imagination. So when it comes to this understanding, that "Nothing belongs to us..." The United Nations, they are fighting for the last twenty years, but they are fighting on the false ground because everyone is thinking, "This land is mine. I must protect it." So they have no self-realization, and there is no peace.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: And eating each other without complex.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they have problem. They are killing only. The human society, they should be advanced so much that even the birds, they have nothing to kill for their eating. They have got sufficient food. And we are advanced human being. We are killing for eating instead of God giving us so much food, enough food. And they are still puffed up with advanced civilization. They have not even human feeling. These poor cows, they are giving us milk, the most nutritious food, and we can prepare so many nice nutritious foodstuff. So let them live. And if I want to eat at all, let it die. Then we shall eat. Why kill it? So they have no common sense. And they are leading the sinful life; still, they are very much proud of their civilization. And they are suffering periodical wars, war number one, war number two, war number three. This number will increase. Not only... Without war, thousands of children are being killed within the womb. This is going on. If you kill, then you be killed. This is nature's reaction. You will be killed within the womb. You will never see the sunlight. Again you die, again enter another womb, and again be killed. This has increased in modern society. Even the father, mother does not want to see the child living: "Kill him." And a few days, few years after, we shall kill each other. So they are not afraid of any sinful life. You see? The nature will not tolerate. Kṛṣṇa will not tolerate. God will not tolerate, because God claims, "I am the father of everyone." So suppose if a very intelligent son kills another son of the father, he is not intelligent, will the father be very happy? A father is father for the intelligent son and the fool son. But if the intelligent son thinks that "The fool son is useless. Let me kill him," the father will not be satisfied.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: They do not follow.

Professor Durckheim: Sure...

Prabhupāda: That's it. Otherwise either you follow Bhagavad-gītā or Bible as they are, then you become gradually perfect. The difficulty is they do not follow. And still they're claiming "I am Christian." "I am Hindu." "I am this." "I am that." Rubber stamp. No qualification but rubber stamp. This is the defect. (German) (break)

Vedavyāsa: ...qualifications on the material platform.

Prabhupāda: First of all acquire this material qualification. Then talk of spiritual. (German) Just like I think in the university if one wants to learn about law he must be graduate first of all.

Dr. P. J. Saher: In India. Yes.

Prabhupāda: So you, first of all become graduate then talk of law books. Similarly, you first of all become a brāhmaṇa. Then you understand about Brahman, Absolute Truth. Without becoming brāhmaṇa how you can understand?

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Well, that is another thing, but first of all we have to know who is spiritual master. The spiritual master is he, samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12), one who is exclusively servant of God, he is spiritual master. Otherwise anyone will come and say, "I am spiritual master." Anyone will come say, "I am incarnation of God." So there is standard. That we have to find out.

Devotee (1): Most of the people are still ignoring God. They are so weak-willed. They are so weak-willed that they are easily swayed by, you know, when somebody comes and claims that...

Prabhupāda: Well, if one is weak, he may be infected by some disease. It requires some resisting power. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that, your answer, that "Only the fortunate person, they can get the shelter of bona fide spiritual master." Kona bhāgyavān jīva. Not all, kona. Kona means some.

Devotee (1):. Some, yes. Kona bhāgyavān...

Prabhupāda: Jīva. So as there are bhagavān—somebody is rich, somebody is poor; this is also due to fortune or misfortune—similarly, if one is spiritually fortunate he gets a bona fide spiritual master.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Professor: (Spanish) What I mean is that, you know. We are all imperfect because we are imperfect. Right? So how can a master, a person who really understands or who claims to really understand be able to know perfection, to see the truth, how can he with his imperfect senses...

Prabhupāda: You are right, you are right.

Professor: ...know the real truth.

Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore I say...

Professor: How can I get with my imperfect senses the perfection brought by the master?

Prabhupāda: The same example. Just like the mother has seen the father, and the mother says not only to her son but other gentleman that "Here is the father of the son." So the other gentleman who has not seen the father but on the verification by the mother, he accepts the real thing. Hearing from the perfect is also perfect. If I get the chance of hearing from the perfect, then I may not be perfect, but because I have heard from the perfect, what I say, that is perfect.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Professor: By time.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be. It may be by time. Suppose a child, he can say, "I am now foolish for the time." But he is foolish at that time. That is not argument, that this child expects to become an M.A. That does not mean he can say he is M.A. at that time. So you cannot make time. Unless you are perfect in knowledge, you cannot say that you are in knowledge. Time, everyone has got the chance. In time he will be in perfect knowledge. That is not... There is no disagreement. But so long he is imperfect, he must admit that he is imperfect. Now, a businessman, a small businessman, he is trying to become millionaire, and if he says, "I will become millionaire in time," that does not mean he is millionaire. He must first of all become millionaire. Then he should claim.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): If he accepts that he is imperfect, what experience qualifies him to talk about God?

Prabhupāda: That I have already discussed, that you have to go to the perfect and take his experience. And then, gradually, you become a perfect.

Morning Walk -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Hṛdayānanda: So as you were saying then, just to manipulate the petrol in different ways, that's like the art, as you've been saying.

Prabhupāda: That's all. You cannot produce petrol. Just like gold is already there, manufactured by God. You can make only different types of ornaments, that's all. Everything. This metal covering of this body, you have not produced this metal. They are like the carpenter. The carpenter has not produced the wood nor the metal instrument nor himself, but he is working. This body is also not produced by him. That is also made by Kṛṣṇa. His intelligence is also made by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is giving the body. Kṛṣṇa is giving the intelligence. Kṛṣṇa is giving the wood. Kṛṣṇa is giving the instrument. Now, if you produce some furniture, to whom it will belong? To the carpenter or to the supplier of everything? Who will enjoy it? Who will enjoy it? If the carpenter claims that "I have done it," that is foolishness. You have done it as a worker, and you have been supplied with everything, your intelligence, your food, your instrument, your ingredient. Therefore the supplier should be the proprietor, not the carpenter. That is real philosophy.

Morning Walk -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: And he is given payment. He is given food, shelter, everything, to work for Kṛṣṇa. Now Kṛṣṇa, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasām (BG 5.29). Whatever activities are going on there, the enjoyer is Kṛṣṇa, nobody else.

Hṛdayānanda: So that's like a new light that you have given. I noticed in your lectures that you were always saying that these things were art. It took a while for me to understand it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nothing belongs to you. Why should you claim it is yours? They are claiming North America "ours," South America "ours." So how it became yours? It was already there, and you came as a immigrant, and it becomes yours? (break) Karmīs, they are claiming, "It is our property." And the jñānīs, they are living that "This is mithyā," and give it up. Both of them in the wrong. It is created by somebody, how you can say mithyā, false? Māyāvādī says, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā: "The whole cosmic manifestation is false." How it is false? And karmīs, they are claiming unnecessarily, "It is mine." Creator is different person, and he is claiming, "mine". That is also false.

Hṛdayānanda: So they are both envious of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: They do not know Kṛṣṇa. Foolish. (end)

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1975, Atlanta:

Mādhava: No. But that's what they think is scientific.

Prabhupāda: How it is scientific? Life is already there. Not that the life production is depending on your future scientific research. The life is already going there, hundreds and thousands and millions. You say that you do not know. Why you are claiming that "In future we shall know"? There is no need of your knowing, it is already going on. You do not know. That is your position. And still, you are declaring yourself as scientist. You are misleading. You can make a fool's paradise, that is another thing. But you do not know at the present moment, but the things are going on. Life is being produced without your knowledge. So you admit that you have no knowledge. And without having knowledge, you are declaring yourself as scientist—how much cheating it is. It is not that it is depending on your future knowledge. It is already going on. Life is being produced. So if you think that in future, by chemical combination you will produce life, so that chemical composition is already there, going on. So you have to find out who is that scientist, not that chemical composition. Who is that scientist who is producing so many lives and chemicals? That is real intelligence.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Mādhava: They want to make a better human being by making life themselves. They want to make it better.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is our proposal, that don't waste time. You are living entities. There are so many living entities. Now try to understand what is your actual constitutional position so that you may become happy and peaceful. This research should be done. Why they are going to waste time in this way, money and time? You can write to the organizer, sponsor of this meeting, that "Why you are foolishly going to waste time like that?" You can say, at least, "My Guru Mahārāja says like this."

Dr. Wolf: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I think if they're trying to create life they want to claim authorship. They want to say, "We did it," but they do not understand that they will...

Prabhupāda: What do they want to claim by creating life?

Dr. Wolf: Authorship. Originators. They want to be...

Prabhupāda: Origin is already there. How you can be originator? Already life is there. How you can be originator? That is your foolishness.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Sadāpūta: Śrīla Prabhupāda, would it be possible for them to make a body and have a living entity enter into it?

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is yogic principle. They can enter into a young body and act as young man.

Sadāpūta: So a scientist then could claim he created life. He could... The way they talk, if he made a cell...

Prabhupāda: First of all let them, these foolish rascals, let them understand what is the point who is missing. Then they will replace. They have no knowledge what is missing. They are so fool.

Dr. Wolf: Śrīla Prabhupāda, they would not create. They would only imitate.

Prabhupāda: That is not... It is never created. That is their missing point, that life is never created and they are trying to create.

Mādhava: Their theory may be right about how the body forms, but they're missing the soul?

Prabhupāda: Body forms... As soon as there is life, body will form by nature's arrangement.

Morning Walk -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Rūpānuga: They say, "Rome wasn't built in a day."

Prabhupāda: No, no. It was not known to you, but what was the harm? And what is the benefit when you have known it?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because, they say, without knowing, it's not advancement of knowledge.

Prabhupāda: But you have not known it. You have not known it. You cannot claim that you are advanced. You are still foolish. Why you are claiming advancement? You have not known it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, but they are saying that "In due course of time we are going to know it."

Prabhupāda: Ah, that is another foolishness. That we do not accept. You have not known it till now. You are foolish still. That you have to admit. "In future you will be a rich man, and therefore you give me a post-dated check"—who will accept it? The foolish person will accept it, (laughter) that "I am giving you the check, ten million dollars. You can take it after three million years (laughter) when I shall become rich." It is a proposal like that. No intelligent person will accept that check.

Morning Walk -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

like that. No intelligent person will accept that check.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they say that "About two hundred years ago, yes, we were foolish, about two hundred years ago."

Prabhupāda: You are still... Still you are foolish. (laughter) Why are you claiming intelligent? Admit it, that still you are foolish. "We have known the molecules." So what is the benefit of knowing?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because that is a part of our man's inquiry, inquiry to know something. They don't want to be in darkness.

Prabhupāda: The enquiry may be, but whether that enquiry is properly answered, that is the thing. Enquiry there is always. But where is the answer of the enquiry?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The answers, without knowing the goal, remain unanswered. (end)

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Guest (2): Well scientists claim that meat ah...

Prabhupāda: Scientists, first of all we have rejected that.

Guest (2): ...provides excellent quantity of proteins. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: But however protein you may accumulate, can you stop your death?

Guest (2): No.

Prabhupāda: Then what is value of protein? If you think that protein will save you from death, then you collect the best protein. But after all, you are going to die. Nature will not allow you to live, even you take much quantity of protein.

Guest (2): That's correct.

Prabhupāda: First of all make solution that you will not die. Then try to find out best protein. What is your answer about this birth, death, old age and disease? Can you check it?

Guest (2): No, sir.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: The teaching is the same. The teaching is the same. What Lord Jesus Christ taught and what we are... (aside:) Aiye. The teaching is the same. But who is following? That is the difficulty.

Reporter: I see. So you don't think that...

Prabhupāda: The difficulty has arisen—I am claiming to be Hindu, but I am not following the Vedic rules. You are claiming to be Christian, but you are not following the Christian rules. This is going on all over the world.

Reporter: But if someone was making the Bible a sort of reality in their lives...

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is good. What is the wrong there, Bible? It is everything all right. We don't say "The Bible is bad, and Vedas are good." We don't say that.

Reporter: Are you yourself or do your followers regard you as an incarnation of Kṛṣṇa or as the teacher of His teachings?

Prabhupāda: No. We regard ourself as servant of Kṛṣṇa.

Reporter: Servant of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Divine? This means must be person. They do not believe in the Personality of Godhead?

Yoga student: They believe... The Sufis see the personality of Ali...

Prabhupāda: No, I am not talking of the Sufis. I am talking of the original Islam.

Yoga student: Well, the Sufis claim to be the original Muslims.

Prabhupāda: Do the all the Muslims accept them? Then?

Parivrājakācārya: There are about 780 different schools of Islam and different ideas.

Prabhupāda: Then? We have to take the original. Otherwise misled.

Yoga student: Well, I think the original path must be found in Sufism because that is the...

Prabhupāda: Then, if the original path is followed, why it is named Sufism?

Yoga student: Because there are those who have fallen away from it, just as in...

Prabhupāda: Who has fallen, the Islam or the Sufist?

Yoga student: I think the formalists have fallen away, like the jñānīs in Hinduism. Just as there's a dispute between the Shaivites and the Vaiṣṇavaites.

Prabhupāda: So who are fallen, the original Islam or the Sufist?

Yoga student: The Sufis are the original Islam.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1975, Tehran:

Guest: Separation from his divine...

Prabhupāda: Yes, then it must be person. They do not believe in the Personality of Godhead?

Guest: They believe, the Sufis, see the personality of Ali.

Prabhupāda: No, I am not talking of the Sufis, I am talking of the original Islam.

Guest: The Sufis claim to be the original process.

Prabhupāda: Do they, all the Muslims accept them?

Devotee 2: There are about 780 different schools of Islam, different ideas they have.

Prabhupāda: You have to take the original, otherwise mislead.

Guest: I think the original path must be found in Sufism, it can be because that is the essence...

Prabhupāda: If the original path is followed, why it is named Sufism?

Guest: Because there were those who had fallen away from it.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest: There are those who had fallen away from it. Just as in the Hindu...

Prabhupāda: Who has fallen, Islam or the Sufis?

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Śrutakīrti: We can cross right... No? No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatāka Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: There is no house?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You want Prabhupāda to come...?

Prabhupāda: So why he's claiming his money? Eh?

Pañcadraviḍa: He says, "Because I work for it."

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But money, what is the standard of money? First of all, just discuss this. What is the standard of money throughout the whole world?

Devotee (1): Work, labor, labor.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee (1): Labor.

Pañcadraviḍa: Purchases...

Prabhupāda: Gold. So have you created gold? How is your money? The gold is already there. You have stolen. You are thief. You are not laborer, but you are rascal, thief. You'll be punished for this policy. Is gold your property?

Devotee (1): But they say that if the whole world follows our example, then the society will be finished.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Devotee (1): But they say that if the whole world follows our example, then the society will be finished.

Prabhupāda: Nobody follows. We do not follow... There are so many... Why they are struggle? Why they struggle? Why do you fight? Because you are all thieves—you want to steal God's gold-therefore you fight. Why do you fight? Why you declare war from one nation to another? Because you are all thieves and you want to steal God's gold. Therefore there is fight. Why do you claim, "This is America, my land"? Is it your land? Have your forefathers created this? Why you falsely claim like that? What is the answer? You have stolen from another party, Red Indians, and you are now claiming, "We are the proprietor." You are thieves. You are not even gentlemen. What do you think?

Pañcadraviḍa: But they say... They say, "God is up in heaven. What does He need with gold?"

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Pañcadraviḍa: They say, "God is up in heaven. What does He need with gold?"

Prabhupāda: "God is up in heaven"? What is that?

Pañcadraviḍa: Well, they say God...

Prabhupāda: Because the master is in heaven, or in some other place, therefore we shall steal?

Tripurāri: They say, "God gave us the land to do what we want with."

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Tripurāri: They say, "God gave us the land to do what we want with."

Prabhupāda: No. God did not give you the land. How do you think it is given to you?

Tripurāri: They say, "God put us here..."

Prabhupāda: God... God has given to every living entity. You can say like that. Just like father. Father gives to all sons, not that a particular son. Why do you claim? Why do you slaughter the cows? They have got right. So, so many faults there are. But they are not reasonable. That is the...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They quote a verse from the Bible where it says that God has given man control over everything on this earth.

Prabhupāda: That control does not mean "The government is in control, therefore government should kill only." These... All rascals, simply rascals. Control, that's all right. You are grown-up boys, human beings, so you should control. You should maintain them, and take service from them, not that you shall kill them. They interpret in that "Because under my control, therefore I shall kill"?

Devotees: Yes.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Acyutānanda: Well, they should study Gītā.

Prajāpati: Yes, that's our point. How to get them to realize that? That's a question.

Acyutānanda: So we'll ask them, "We have a most scientific and detailed description of the self and God and the means to join to Him. That cannot be avoided in your study. And we claim the highest standard of renunciation, and worship and godly society."

Prajāpati: And their answer...

Acyutānanda: "You can't avoid us."

Prajāpati: Their answer to such a challenge will be: "You please go across the street to the study of Hinduism."

Acyutānanda: "No, you said theology. God is not a Christian God."

Prajāpati: But they're not interested. They only want to hear the Christian point of view. And for them, "Christian" doesn't mean Bible; it means their own...

Acyutānanda: That's Prabhupāda's first thing—what is God? Is it the Christian God? What is God? What is your definition of God? Is He a Christian God or pure?

Prabhupāda: No, the... The... First of all, this should be established, whether God can be Christian God or Hindu God or Muslim God? Is God to be designated like that? God is one, so how there is one God? If Christian has got separate God, a Hindu has got separate god, Muslim has got separate God, then how God is one?

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: It is very difficult to convince them. (break) We may not keep the Christ in heart, but even you do not keep Christ by your dealings. You are simply disobeying the orders. Then how you can be a Christian?

Ravīndra-svarūpa: Jesus says that in Matthew. He says that "Many will come to me and say, 'Lord, Lord,' that 'We cured the sick in your name, and we cast out demons in your name,' " and Jesus said that "When they come I will say, 'Get away from me. I know you not, for you failed to do the will of my Father.' " Even though they're claiming to be Christians.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prajāpati: Many times, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I've heard you say, when speaking to people, that "You don't have to give up your faith. You can remain a Christian or you can remain a Mohammedan. Simply chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and you'll become purified." So the main point...

Prabhupāda: No, we say not only Hare Kṛṣṇa. "You chant the name of God. But if you have no name of God, then here is the name of God."

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Thank you. Don't try to make God your servant. That is foolishness. You must always agree that "I am servant of God."

Pañcadraviḍa: Because in the class that... I asked that question because we're saying, well, there's no question of creating life. We're agreeing that the soul already exists. But can the scientists... If a scientist claims he'll create the conditions in which a soul will enter, do we accept that premise, and I thought, "No, because that's giving them much too much ground," that if we say that, then by their definition, they can say, "I am creating life. I don't want to argue over the existence or not of the soul, but I'll arrange all the chemicals for you."

Prabhupāda: Where is that chemist? Where is that chemical combination that, I mean to say, grows a soul, generate a soul? Even if you have got the chemicals, you cannot do it.

Pañcadraviḍa: Whether it's true or not, somebody was claiming to me that the scientists are creating primitive forms of life like enzymes and things like this because enzymes show... Enzymes are produced by life. They show certain living tendencies. The scientists claim they are able to create enzymes.

Prabhupāda: So what is the credit? The enzymes are being naturally created, and the soul is there. So what is his credit? The arrangement is already there automatically, the secretion between the man and the woman, and they mix together, emulsified, and the situation is created, and the soul comes there. The soul is injected through the semina of the man. It is already arranged. So what is your credit?

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Where is the interpretation necessary?

Satsvarūpa: They say we interpret even in the word to word.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Satsvarūpa: They claim that we interpret even in word to word.

Prabhupāda: But how do you do? Just like dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre (BG 1.1). Interpret in different way this word, dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre? It cannot be interpreted. And how do you dare to say that "We can interpret word to word." In the beginning, you cannot do it.

Pañcadraviḍa: They clam, then, unless you speak Sanskrit, you have to interpret Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: No, that means if you are a nonsense, you better remain silent. Don't interpret. It is better not to talk than to talk nonsense. What is the meaning of that interpretation. If you do not know Sanskrit, stop speaking. Why do you make imagination?

Pañcadraviḍa: Well, their claim is you have to read the Gītā in Sanskrit in order for it to be read as it is.

Prabhupāda: Now, now, in the very beginning it is said, dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre (BG 1.1). Now interpret. What is your interpretation, dharma-kṣetre? What is your interpretation, kuru-kṣetre? Come on, in the beginning. They cannot interpret anything.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Well, that is... Cats and dogs have also responsible for the family. What is credit for him?

Devotee: Well, what actually is responsibility?

Prabhupāda: No, no. The dog also allows the nipple to be sucked by the cubs. That is family maintenance. So what credit do you get by family maintenance? Why do you specially claim any benefit by maintain...? That is being done by the cats and dogs. Do you think that the animals do not take care of their children? Then if you take, then what is the difference between him and yourself? You are also the cats and dogs. Your main business is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. If you forget that—you remain cats and dogs—then you'll become again cats and dogs. Punar muṣiko bhava: "Again become a mouse." The mouse was given the chance to elevate gradually to a tiger, and when he became tiger, he wanted to devour the saintly person. And he said, "All right, again you become mouse." That is also... You are given the chance of self-realization. If you do not do it, then again become cats and dogs, maintain your family.

Pañcadraviḍa: So if... (end)

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Yaśodānandana: So they would say, "Well, we do not claim any credit, but, similarly, you cannot give God credit, because it is going on as a biochemical reaction."

Prabhupāda: Why not? That is your rascaldom. You cannot produce it. Why do you say like that? You rascal, you produce by biochemical combination. That is your rascaldom. That is not science. You are talking like a child. That's all. Credit must be given to God. He's already doing it very systematically. Why shall I... I am not such a fool that I have to give credit to you.

Yaśodānandana: No, that is not the question, to give credit to me. But just because you can't...

Prabhupāda: Anyone who is producing, either or God or somebody, or somebody is doing that. I must see, (indistinct) ...not to you. You may not accept God, but somebody is doing that. As you are trying to do it, similarly, somebody else is already there. Therefore he should get the credit. Why you are claiming to get the credit? That is not right. Anybody... Just like you are somebody, you are trying to take all the credit. So similarly, somebody is already doing. So he should get the credit.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Yaśodānandana: They don't have faith in the doctor.

Prabhupāda: Ha?

Yaśodānandana: They don't have faith in the doctor.

Prabhupāda: Then how he claims to..., claims others' faith upon him? He's more than a doctor? Doctor is also as good as scientist as you are. If you do not have faith in the doctor why do you claim people should have faith in you? Where is the proof that you'll be able? Why you are asking us blindly to follow you? What is your answer?

Nitāi: Sometimes they say that if we can control, if we can produce...

Prabhupāda: But I'm protesting that you cannot control. You are rascal. You are thinking like that. That is our charge against you, that you cannot control. In the history there is not a single instance that man has controlled nature. But nature has controlled man. That is the history. Where is the proof that you shall control? You are controlled. Nature is forcing you to become an old man. You are becoming. You control like that, that you remain a young man. Nature is controlling you to die. You control nature that death will not be forced upon me. So where is the history that man has controlled nature?

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Therefore you are fool. You have to learn. That means you have to learn, means you are fool.

Yaśodānandana: But we are learning.

Prabhupāda: Don't assert it, that you have done it already, you shall do it... As soon as you say we have to learn, that means you are fools. And while you are student, why you are claiming all these perfections? You have to learn. That you have to learn from us.

Brahmānanda: Actually, when I was in Germany, there was evidence of how the scientists increased disease. They invented some vaccine to counteract influenza, and they injected all of Germany with this vaccine. But what happened is sometimes the body builds up resistance to these vaccines and produces another germ. So, as a result, another type of influenza was created, which was far more worse than the previous. It made people get fever for four and five days straight, 105 degrees.

Prabhupāda: That is the way of... They have discovered this streptomycin, for tuberculosis, that if one takes too many injections of streptomycin, then it does not act.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Devotee: Well they don't... they may be living a long time but they don't have the same intelligence how to use their life span...

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) ...the dogs also got intelligence, the hogs also got intelligence. The intelligence which you are claiming, that is all discussed in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. It is said yes they are living, but you don't see that breathing. So then the vastra, the bellow, it is breathing. "Waa, waa, waa, waa." It is breathing in the (indistinct) and it is (indistinct), the vastra. It is breathing (indistinct). Here they are living but you don't see they have any sex enjoyment (indistinct). The dogs and hogs, they are having very good sex enjoyment, even on the street, without any restriction, and begetting three dozen children in a year. And they give credit to whom?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Apart from science, we have very nice philosophy and literature, studying art.

Prabhupāda: That is real science. Science we admit, but your science is not. You are trying to go against the laws of nature.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Governor: It is an harmonious coordination.

Prabhupāda: Yes, harmonious coordination. But the śūdras were hated like anything, and they became Mohammedans. And there was no reacceptance. Formerly, from Caitanya literature we understand, that if the Musselman will take little water from the badna (?) and sprinkle like this, then you become Mohammedan. In this way all these Indians, they became Mohammedan. And the result is now the Pakistan, and you go on fighting forever. Why these innocent persons who were by sprinkling water became Mohammedan, why they do not claim? Kṛṣṇa and the śāstra, it does not say that if one has fallen, you cannot reclaim him. No, why not reclaim him? Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa... (BG 9.32). This is by birth. And of course, in our country everything was taken by birth. Now it is going on. But even by birth one is low-grade...

Governor: No, birth also was built up by a tradition. They were brought up in that atmosphere.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It doesn't matter. But if he wants to be elevated, he should be given chance. That is the verdict of all śāstras. Now we are feeling, India, this difficulty. Because they are Europeans, Americans, the so-called big societies, they are not agreeable to accept them. You see? Although śāstra does not say so. Śāstra says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. "If one takes shelter of Me, even he is born in pāpa-yoni"... Striyaḥ vaiśyās tathā..., te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim, "they can also be elevated to the highest exalted position." And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is, many places it is said that a low-born person can be elevated. Caṇḍalo 'pi dvija śreṣṭho hari-bhakti-parāyaṇaḥ.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: I think the governor was asking about the varṇāśrama college.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Varnāśrama college, that training factual brāhmaṇa. And the government should be, as I explained to you, that if one is proclaiming himself as a brāhmaṇa, he must act as a brāhmaṇa. If one is proclaiming as a kṣatriya, he must act as a kṣatriya. Otherwise, there will be no restriction, and a śūdra will claim to be brāhmaṇa. That will create a disturbing situation. In Pṛthu Mahārāja's time it was strictly prohibited that... That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā, sva-dharme nidhanaṁ śreyaḥ para-dharmo bhayāvahaḥ. So if one is claiming to be brāhmaṇa he must be brāhmaṇa. That is another way of reforming the society. And nowadays everyone is a śūdra, and somebody is claiming, "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," "I am this," "I am that." Formerly the brāhmaṇas (were) strictly following. They would not accept... In the śāstras it is said that the brāhmaṇa in bad time may become a kṣatriya. Just like Dronācārya. He was brāhmaṇa, but he became a kṣatriya for certain reason, and acting like kṣatriya, although he was respected as brāhmaṇa, but he was acting as a kṣatriya. So it is advised that brāhmaṇa may take the profession of a kṣatriya and up to the vaiśya. But if he takes the profession of a śūdra, then he is fallen. Then he is fallen. So this cultural institution should now be introduced. And the other countries, they are still respectful to the Indian culture. That's a fact. I have studied. So if we keep ourself in our, what he has mentioned, samsriti?

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Governor: No, what is... What is the... An electrician we get him. He is an electrician and also becoming a brāhmaṇa. An engineer...

Prabhupāda: No, no, that cannot be.

Governor: You want completely a brāhmaṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, then there will be ideal character. That is going on. One man is claiming as brāhmaṇa, but he is doing the work of electrician. That is already going on.

Governor: No, but while doing his profession, if he has good influence of the varṇāśrama-dharma, of the brāhmaṇa, and then he will do the work with the dedication to God and to the society.

Prabhupāda: No. Why you are suggesting that although he is a brāhmaṇa, he become a electrician. Why?

Governor: I will put it this way. He is an engineer, but I would also...

Prabhupāda: Engineer?

Governor: A mechanical engineer.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Discussion -- May 6, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Any one you can take, and it will be explained.

Amogha: So any of the four meanings is also the same true meaning.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Amogha: Sometimes they claim that we should not claim that our choice is the true choice, but they don't understand that any of those meanings can be true at the same time.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this body is true. We have got body. We don't say it is false. It is true. Bodily pains and pleasures we feel, so how can I say that the body is false? The body means bodily pains and pleasures, then we are affected, so how you can say it is false? Similarly the mind, and soul is absolute thing. Factually. So any item you take, you can understand by thorough study.

Paramahaṁsa: In some cases, in a more controversial case, the word chosen, or the meaning chosen for a particular Sanskrit word, may change the whole meaning of the verse, but because...

Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to take the paramparā meaning. Because we are foolish, we cannot understand properly. Tad vijñārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet. Therefore, one has to go to guru and understand the meaning by paramparā. You cannot make your own meaning. The meaning is already there. But if you cannot understand, then you should approach guru and understand the meaning by paramparā.

Evening Discussion -- May 6, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: It is explained there. He does not reveal Himself. Why He shall reveal Himself to an unqualified person? That is Kṛṣṇa's prerogative. If He likes He will reveal. If He does not like He will not reveal. You cannot by force see Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, first of all be qualified, then try to see Kṛṣṇa. He is not exposed. Even a big man, if you want to see him, he may refuse: "No, I will not see." What can you do? If you think that "This man is third-class man, why shall I see him?" Even in ordinary human society that is going on. So why people are eager to see Kṛṣṇa without being qualified? Why these rascals say, "Can you show me God?" First of all you become fit to see God. They'll not become fit. They'll do all nonsense, and want to see God. Kṛṣṇa is addressed, pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān. He is the supreme pure, and we are impure, and you want to see the supreme pure. You see? What audacity! I am not fire. I want to enter into the fire. You see? What will be the result? You'll be burned into ashes. First of all be fire. Increase your temperature to the same temperature, then it will automatically. He is paraṁ brahma, so you realize yourself as brahma. You are realizing yourself as American, Indian, this, that, and you want to see paraṁ brahma? The foolish people will do. And one has to become purified, sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ (CC Madhya 19.170). One has to be free from all designations. Everyone, we give more prominence to the designations: "I am this, I am this." So how can you see God like that? First of all you become designationless. As Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, that "I am not a brāhmaṇa, I am not a kṣatriya, I am not a vaiśya"—everything He denied. So purify yourself and you'll see God. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to become purified. That makes you all right. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva (Bs. 5.38). Sadaiva means always. This is the process. Why these rascals say, "Can you show me God?" What qualification have you got? He doesn't think like that, that "I have no qualification." He thinks that "I am very advanced." That is foolish. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ. Similarly a third-class man goes to a high-court judge. Foolish rascals has come. "Who is that?" "I don't know." There was an incident. One big philosopher and one big dramatic player. He was also very famous. So he went to see that philosopher and sent his card. He said, "Oh, why shall I see this dancing dog? He may be famous as a dancing dog, but I have no business with him. If some philosopher comes, then it will be a pleasure to talk with him. What does he know? He may be expert in dancing. It is not philosophy." So he refused to see him. "Why shall I see this dancing dog?" He used these words. "He's a dancing dog" (inaudible). So similarly, why this ordinary man claims to see God? A dancing dog? A devotee says, marma-hatāṁ karotu vā. A devotee is always anxious to see God, but he said that "I am not qualified. So even I become broken-hearted not seeing God, still Kṛṣṇa is my Lord. I may see, or may not see. That is His mercy. But in all circumstances, He is my worshipful Lord." That is devotee. "Oh, I could not see God? I have done so much?" Kṛṣṇa is not so obliged that because by concoction you think you have done something, and therefore He is obliged to come before you and dance. Kṛṣṇa is not so little.

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Devotee: No.

Prabhupāda: So, this is foolishness. You become very bold enough, "Now I shall cook without fire." You are a rascal number one. Gandhi did it. Actually he could not drive away the Britishers by nonviolence, for thirty years, thirty-five years he struggled. When Subash Bose introduced violence, they were forced out. This is politics. Politics and nonviolence (incompatible). There is no history in the world that politics has been successful without violence, and he introduced this. So how much foolish he was, you can understand. It is same thing like that, if somebody says, "I'll cook without any. I shall scientifically do that a man can give birth to a child." There is no history, and if I say, "Now I shall do it. I shall see that equal rights. As a woman is giving birth to a child, the man will also will give child." These things are foolishness. This is not intelligence. The women are claiming equal rights. So, stop giving birth to a child? Then equal rights. Can it be possible? The man and woman unite, but the woman becomes pregnant, not the man. And if somebody says, now the man will become pregnant, is it not foolishness?

Paramahaṁsa: But they have made a way so that the women also don't have to become pregnant. This contraceptive, and...

Prabhupāda: This is another foolishness. (indistinct) another... (break) This unnatural thing. (break) What is this insignia?

Śrutakīrti: That is Ford's insignia.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Carol: I would like to know why in the beginning why you came to the West. I know a bit about your background, but not very much. Why you saw the need to come.

Prabhupāda: That I was speaking. Of course, it is very strong words. That Western people they are claiming very civilized, but I have got objection. Therefore I have come to the West. Because, for example, the animal-killing. The Western people are mostly Christians. Now, Lord Jesus Christ said that "Thou shall not kill." But the result was that two thousand years passed, but the people of the Western countries, they are still killing. So when they have accepted Christianity? What is your answer?

Carol: But the actual original scriptures aren't enacted in Western life.

Prabhupāda: I mean to say that Lord Jesus Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." So, what kind of men were there that Lord Christ had to request them not to kill? That means they were killers. Suppose if somebody's thief, and if I give him some good instruction, I say "You should not commit theft." That means you are thief. You are already. Otherwise why I say that "Thou shall not commit theft"? A naughty child is disturbing. I say, "My dear child, don't do this." Similarly, when Christ said, "Thou shall not kill," that means he said amongst people who were in the habit of killing. Is it not?

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: No, my... You just explain.

Amogha: He's asking you when did this civilization actually accept the teachings of Christ?

Carol: When have they? Not overall at all, only in small pockets. Never overall.

Prabhupāda: Then why you are claiming that you are Christian? Just like you are having cross. That is the sign that you killed Christ. The cross is the killing symbol of Christ.

Carol: This is the resurrection symbol.

Prabhupāda: Maybe. (laughter)

Carol: But it's not only Christian symbol...

Prabhupāda: But many, many priestly order, they carry the cross. Cross is the sign when Lord Jesus Christ was killed. Is it not?

Carol: It is, but that symbol is used in a lot of ways.

Prabhupāda: That means how you killed Lord Jesus Christ. That is the sign. That reminds you that you killed. You accuse the Jewish people "They killed," but you are also killing. Although you are claiming Christian. Therefore I want to know—you are a learned scholar—when you abided by the order of Lord Jesus Christ? That is my question.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Every one of you, Western countries. And if you have abided by the order of Jesus Christ, then why you are systematically killing? The order is, "Thou shall not kill."

Carol: It reminds me of the Gītā, you know? Where Arjuna is on the battlefield about to commit an organized sort of killing against his relatives.

Prabhupāda: No, two thousand years passed, but you could not accept the instruction of Lord Jesus Christ. And you are all claiming that you are Christian. When did you accept Christianity? That is my question. Because you have disobeyed the order of Christ. So when did you accept? Two thousand years passed. Hmm? Who will answer this question?

Jayadharma: Never.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Jayadharma: They never accepted.

Carol: Hmm. What is the main part of your philosophy? Is it based on the Vedānta school?

Prabhupāda: No. This is no question of philosophy. You could not accept the simple instruction. Then where is the question of philosophy?

Carol: The question of love.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: She says doesn't the suffering and pain lead people towards God?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the law, but we are so dull-headed that we do not enquire. That is my statement, that you should enquire "Who is forcing these things?" Then there is enquiry of God. First of all we must be... Just like a dog. He cannot understand. He's under chain. He's leading a life most dependent. And he is jolly. He is jumping here and there. That is dog's life. If the master kills him, he cannot do anything. But he is very jolly. He is jumping. That is dog's life. But not human life. Human life is that I am dependent in every step, still I am declaring independent. What is this nonsense? This enquiry should be there. He is dependent in every step, exactly like the cats and dogs, but he is claiming, "I am independent."

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: No technology, no education.

Prabhupāda: Because you have plundered them for the last two thousand years. You rascals, rogues, you have plundered. You have taken all their money, all their jewels, all their gold, and made British Museum. (laughter) It is due to you. (noise in background) What is the dog? Some dog?

Amogha: Oh, that is the siren. You mean the siren?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Some bird.

Amogha: Oh, yeah. In Bhagavad-gītā we claim that it is a fact scientifically that Kṛṣṇa appeared on earth and so many things. But actually isn't it because we believe that the Bhagavad-gītā is true that we think it is scientific? Because we believe it. But someone else would say, "I don't believe it, so for me it's not scientific."

Prabhupāda: Why it is not scientific? If Bhagavad-gītā says, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14), by eating sufficient grains, the living entity become flourished. So, can you deny it?

Amogha: That must be true.

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: Next time when there is a war, then they will feel more inclined to fight, knowing that there may be a tree for them.

Prabhupāda: It means, this is government deceiving. The man is not there. And even if he is there, suppose the soldier after dying for his country has become a tree, is it a very good reward? (laughter) How foolishly they are thinking. We have to point out their foolishness. That is our business. They are working very hard, undoubtedly, but they are working foolishly. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). The result is simply they are becoming tired. That's all. Because they are not working intelligently, like monkey, he is busy all day. What is the value of your busy? You'll find the monkey is never sitting idle. He's always busy, "eḥ, eh, eh." (imitating monkey) So what is the result of that busyness? He's a monkey. And they claim to be coming from monkey, these rascals. So we can see that your monkey's quality is already there. (laughter) You have not improved more than monkey, because you are working uselessly. They are theorizing that they have come from monkey, and as soon as you say that you are monkey, they become angry. Just see. They are claiming that we are coming from monkey. And if you say you are monkey, no better than monkey, then they are angry. Just see.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: Yes, chief cheat.

Amogha: Yes. And his wife cheater, she wanted to carry it on and her eldest son was named God, or the leader. And..., but she thought that this Guru Maharaj-ji was better, more appealing to the people. So she changed and said, "He can be the leader." Then he started the Western movement. And then he began... She noticed that he was becoming playboy instead of God. And so she began the trouble in India, and she claimed that he was no longer suitable because he was eating meat and intoxication and becoming a playboy, all these things. Dancing. So she started the trouble in India, and she wants to reinstate the elder brother as the leader and take away the younger one, Guru Maharaj-ji. So that's how the trouble started.

Prabhupāda: So that her business may go on.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: First of all she tried the youngest son. When he is failure, now replace him.

Paramahaṁsa: Actually, he was a good investment. She made a lot of money on the younger son, probably more than she would have on this older one. Because the older one is not so attractive. He's kind of ugly. This younger one is very...

Prabhupāda: Attractive?

Paramahaṁsa: Yeah, kind of cute. Everyone thought he was cute. (laughter) Young, fat...

Amogha: So now he has gone to India to try to win the battle, and in the course he has been sued, and the court order says he must stay until the suit is finished.

Gaṇeśa: When the movement first came out to Australia about three or four years ago, one of his disciples who was a girl, she came through Perth, and at that time I was arguing Bhagavad-gītā with her, but she could not understand. She could not see that it was Kṛṣṇa to surrender to and not Guru Maharaj-ji.

Amogha: Whenever we place a good argument with them, they say, "Yes, but all these words are just words, and actually it is beyond words. The truth is beyond words. So never mind."

Prabhupāda: You are talking words. You are not beyond.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Then the other party will go to appeal. Where he is being judged, in the Supreme Court or lower court?

Amogha: I'm not sure. Actually, the judgment is whether or not he put a false picture in the newspaper of his brother with a girl. The older brother is claiming that... First he put a picture in the paper showing the younger Guru Maharaj-ji kissing an American girl. So Guru Maharaj-ji put another counter-photo showing his older brother with an American girl. So the suit is over whether this second picture is a real picture or is it artificially made. That's what the court will decide.

Prabhupāda: Oh. That is the suit.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So in other words, the case is that God cannot kiss an American girl. (laughs) Is that the case? (laughter)

Amogha: Well, not in public.

Śrutakīrti: The mother's claim is that the Guru Maharaj-ji is not fit to be the leader now because he is...

Prabhupāda: Because he has kissed one American girl?

Paramahaṁsa: Well, not one, but many.

Prabhupāda: Many.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: (in car) Because so many of them are saying that "I am God," they become envious of one another, and then they fight and expose each other.

Prabhupāda: Competition. God's competition.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes. And then everyone can see that they are simply materialists.

Prabhupāda: Not only he, but there are many others claim to become God. All of them should be brought into the court.

Paramahaṁsa: Didn't Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura do that once?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: What was the penalty that he...?

Prabhupāda: He put into the jail for six months. And he died in the jail. He took poison. Because after coming out of the jail, he could not do his business. He's finished.

Gaṇeśa: Also Paundraka.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa cut his head immediately. Let this Guru Mahārāja cut the heads of the opposition, that "You do not accept me God, I cut your head." Let him cut the head of his brother or mother.

Morning Walk -- May 17, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: They are doing so many things. They are killing cows for their own benefit. So many animals they are killing. Birds.

Śrutakīrti: Yeah, he was making a claim that he was against this because all these cows are in the central part of Australia and just by their walking they're causing the topsoil to become loosened and taken by the wind. So he was against all this mass slaughtering. But at the same time, he's eating meat. Also he was saying how everyone is interested in making the fast dollar, the... (break)

Paramahaṁsa: The industrialists and technologists say that they will keep using and using and using, and when they run out they will invent something else to take the place. When they run out of oil then they will use sun energy or some other energy. And whenever they say that they're running out of something, they say, "Oh, we'll invent something, and we'll do something to arrange it."

Prabhupāda: Why they are thinking of the future? And they do not think of themself that whether he was going to be a cat and dog. He is thinking of industrial resources future and not for himself.

Morning Walk -- May 18, 1975, Perth:

Śrutakīrti: Yeah, we are leaving at twelve-thirty. So we have two hours. That is sufficient.

Prabhupāda: Hm. The world is full of rascals and fourth-class men. That is our verdict, Kṛṣṇa's verdict. A human being does not know God, he's no better than dog. He is dog. Who knows God? There are so many scientists, philosophers, now everywhere. And they are discussing on sex philosophy, homosex philosophy, Darwin's theory. All third class, fourth class, they are controlling. Now they are gradually coming to chaotic condition, and their problems, engage so many big, big officials how to solve. Oh, why you created problem, first of all? You third-class, fourth-class men, you have created problem, and now we are trying to make solution—another problem. And because you are the same fourth-class men, how you can make a solution? You have created the problems. The man who creates problems, can he make solution? So you are the same fourth-class man, how you can make a solution? Bring first-class man. But there are no first-class men. All rogues and rascals. Things are becoming bad to worse, and still they'll claim, "We are first class."

Morning Walk -- May 18, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: Hm.

Prabhupāda: A lion is also an animal. But they are thinking, "Oh, one lion." But we are thinking that it is also animal. The cats and dogs, they are thinking, "Oh, lion is so big, so powerful." But human being is thinking this is also an animal, big animal. Is it not? (laughs) Tell them. Cats and dogs may praise some another animal, tiger and... But are the tigers other than animal? He is also animal.

Devotee: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

Prabhupāda: When I was saying that we are creating first-class men. So are you, are you claiming that you are first-class?

Amogha: Yes, he was asking us. Yes, he said, "Have you become?" (laughter)

Prabhupāda: What did you say?

Amogha: I said we are becoming. Yes, we can see. (offers obeisances) (end)

Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Australian devotee: 400,000.

Prabhupāda: No, total human being, 400,000 species. Altogether, 8,400,000 species of living entities. So these are coming, evolution, by the laws of nature. You cannot stop it. The laws of nature, you cannot interfere. In this way we come to the human form of body, and especially civilized human being. Supposedly, it is the Aryans. The Aryan family, they are the topmost civilized group amongst the living entities. Now, in this life one has to enquire about himself that what is the difference between me and the dog? Why I am claiming a better position than the dog? What is the difference? The difference is that a human being, if he endeavors, he can understand his real constitutional position and he can understand God also. God. Therefore in the human society, civilized human society, there is some sort of religious system. It does not matter whether it is Hindu religion, Muslim religion, Christian religion, or Buddha religion. There is some religion in the civilized human society.

Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Journalist: Are people using the wrong things to live too sophisticated?

Prabhupāda: Yes, he must be. Because he is foolish, he will do all nonsense..., wrong things, which will create unhappiness. To deny God means foolishness, and foolish man simply will create trouble. Just like monkey. Monkey is always busy by simply creating trouble, that's all. And they are claiming, the foolish Darwin's theories, they also claim that monkey is our forefather.

Journalist: Is that true? Do you believe that?

Prabhupāda: No, I have told you already, the evolution. The monkey is not our forefather, but in the evolutionary process we came through monkey. That is a fact. Because that is an animal, so we have to pass through three million varieties of animal's body. So monkey is one of them.

Morning Walk -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: They have given separate account or only on the total?

Hari-śauri: Only approximation.

Śrutakīrti:: An estimate. (break)

Hari-śauri: ...a drawing of the so-called missing link between the evolution from ape to man. They have given one drawing of a species looking like a man but hunched like an ape. And they're claiming this is...

Prabhupāda: Where they have got it?

Hari-śauri: ...that this type of personality was existing millions of years ago. (break)

Amogha: Of the 400,000 human species, what is the distinguishing characteristic that makes one different from another? How could we recognize them, or could we?

Prabhupāda: You have not seen varieties of men?

Amogha: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Madhudviṣa: It would indicate that the creation of this universe takes place in stages, over quite a long period of time, and this is what the scientists also claim. Darwin's theory is similar to that, that first there was water, then vegetation came up, and then gradually, gradually, each and every species evolved, like that. So is there some correlation between those?

Prabhupāda: But the varieties of creation, not that everything is coming like that. Just like Brahmā was first created, the first intelligent man. So although there was water, he was above water. He was on the lotus flower, which is not in the water. So that is also creation. So suppose this part is not covered by water—you see grass. But where there is lake there is no grass. So both things are there. Somewhere where there is water, unless the water is dried up, there is no grass. But somewhere you will find, immediately, grass. But there is no water. Or above water. So far the material elements are concerned, that is this stage. But the material elementary presentation, in different places, different way.

Morning Walk -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Śrutakīrti: It says this tree is dangerous in a high wind.

Devotee: It will break.

Prabhupāda: Oh. And this path is not dangerous? (laughter) Everything is dangerous in the material world. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām (SB 10.14.58). In every step there is danger. That is material life. (break) ...they claim equal rights man and woman. Why in the lavatory they are different?

Madhudviṣa: They also want to have the same there.

Prabhupāda: Why there is difference? Ladies and gents. Why not equal right?

Śrutakīrti: In some of our modern universities they are doing that.

Prabhupāda: Advancing.

Devotee: Yes.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: There was a great devotee in South India. He was a treasury officer. So he took money from the treasury and constructed very nice temple. (laughter) Yes. Later on, he was caught, and he was put into jail by the Nawab. At that time the Mohammedan king, Nawab, he saw in dream that two boys, very beautiful, they have come to the Nawab: "Sir, what money he has taken, you can take from me and release him." So the Nawab said, "If I get my money, I can release him." Then, when his dream broke, he saw the money on the floor, and nobody was there. Then he could understand that he is great devotee. He called him immediately, that "You are released, and you take this money also. Whatever you have already taken, that's all right. And now this money also you take. You spend as you like." So devotees sometimes do like that. Actually nothing is private property. That is our philosophy. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam: (ISO 1) "Everything belongs to God." That's a fact. Under the influence of māyā we are thinking that "This is my property."

Just like suppose this cushion. Wherefrom the wood has come? Has anybody produced wood? Who has produced? It is God's property. Rather, we have stolen God's property and claiming, "My property." Then Australia. The Englishmen came here, but is that the property of the Englishmen? It was there. America, it was there. And when everything will be finished, it will be there. In the middle we come and claim, "It is my property," and fight. Is it not? You are a barrister, you can judge better.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Originally, originally, everything belongs to God. So why we are claiming, "It is my property"? Suppose you have come here. You sit down for one hour, two hours, and if you claim, "It is my property," is that very good judgement? You have come from outside, you are allowed to sit down here for two hours, and if you claim, "This is my property..." Similarly, we come here. We take birth either in America or in Australia or in India and remain for fifty, sixty or hundred years, and why shall I claim, "It is my property"?

Guest 3: You don't claim it, I suppose. If you own property, what happens, I would have thought, is more that for a time you have got possession.

Prabhupāda: For a time you have got possession of the chair—that does not mean your property.

Guest 3: But I suppose if somebody came and took the chair while I've got it in my possession, I'd be terribly upset about it.

Prabhupāda: No, that is a (indistinct) thing. Nobody will disturb you. You remain in your chair. (laughter) That does not mean because you have sat down on the chair for two hours, you become proprietor.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Guest 2: One gets attached.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Guest 2: One gets attached to the chair. I like this chair. It's a nice chair.

Prabhupāda: No, that's all right. You like, you sit down, and you go when it is finished. But how do you claim that it is your property?

Guest 2: Good-bye. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: That is called māyā. This is māyā. The philosophy of māyā, māyā means what is not. Mā-yā. Mā means not, yā means this. So māyā means the conclusion, as you have made, that is not. That is not the fact. So we are claiming, "America is our", "Australia is our", "India is our". Nothing our. Everything God's. The best conclusion is, "It is God's property. God has given us to live. Let us thank God, feel obliged to Him, and glorify Him." That is our vision. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You accept the real position, that nothing belongs to you, everything belongs to God. You also belong to God. Your body, yourself, everything belongs to God. This body is material body. That material energy, earth, water, air, fire—everything belongs to God. This sea belongs to God, water, vast water. You have not created, neither your forefather has created. So this body is made of earth, water, air, fire, five elements. So your, the body is also God's.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: So far I am soul, I am also part and parcel of God. So everything belongs to God. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are falsely claiming that "It is our." This is māyā. Māyā means what is not fact. That is the meaning of māyā.

Madhudviṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, this concept that everything belongs to God, it can't work unless everybody believes that everything belongs to God. Prabhupāda: Then everybody may be mad. That does not change the fact. If some madman comes in this room and he fights, "I am the proprietor. You get out," so that is not the fact. Guest 1: I understand, you know you were talking about the sea and so on. But it's for people to use. Prabhupāda: Use, you can use. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthāḥ (ISO 1). That is the Vedic injunction. What is given to you, you use it. Just like one gentleman has got five sons. He gives one son, "This is your property. This is your property. This you can use." But the sons must acknowledge that "This is father's property. He has given us." Similarly, in the Vedic śāstra it is said that "Everything belongs to God, and whatever He has given to you, you can use. Don't encroach upon others."

Radio Interview -- May 25, 1975, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: You are thinking this is Oriental civilization, but that is not the fact. The fact is this is human civilization. There is no question of east and west. Every living being, not only human being, even other beings—there are 8,400,000's forms of life—and Kṛṣṇa claims that

sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya
mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ
tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir
haṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā
(BG 14.4)

So Kṛṣṇa is for the aquatics, the animals in the water. The vast sea, there are so many animals. Then, from the water, the trees are coming out. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. In this way evolutionary process is going on. But all of them, living entities, and part and parcel of God, Kṛṣṇa. So by the evolutionary process they come to the human form of life. Now there is developed consciousness. Now, the human being has to decide which way he has to go, again to the lower species of life or higher forms of life. The higher forms of life are there in the upper planetary system.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: How he created, that is another thing. But you have not created. Somebody else has created. First of all accept this. Then we shall go into the detail.

Gurukṛpa: Actually they are thinking that they are the supreme brain themselves.

Prabhupāda: Then that's all right. How you are supreme? You cannot create like that. How you are supreme? Simply by claiming "I am supreme"?

Gurukṛpa: Well, if they discover a theory, then they think that that makes them supreme.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Theory you may discover, but you have not created. That's a fact. That's a fact.

Bali-mardana: They refuse to accept God because they can neither prove nor disprove.

Prabhupāda: But no, no. God you prove or disprove, but first you have to accept that you have not created.

Bali-mardana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: How is that you are thinking that you have created or somebody... You have not created this. Somebody else. Now who is that somebody else, that we shall find out. But you have not created. You accept it.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:
Prabhupāda: By killing chickens.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. He acteually is beginning to look like a chicken, his face. He's actually starting to look like a chicken. Ambarīṣa: He claims he is a very religious man too. Prabhupāda: Ācchā? Ambarīṣa: Yes. Prabhupāda: This is the sample of religious man. And what is irreligious? If the religious men kill so many chickens daily, then what is the irreligious man do? Siddha-svarūpa: They're vegetarians. (laughs) Prabhupāda: He kills the chicken and fry it in oil. And that is sold. Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. Big money. They... Ambarīṣa: He's also very involved in politics. Prabhupāda: Ācchā? He's a politician also? Ambarīṣa: Yeah. At the Democratic convention he supplies all the politicians with unlimited fried chicken. Prabhupāda: Ācchā? (laughter)

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1975, Los Angeles:

Revatīnandana: Some time back I was reading an article on an airplane, one of those airline news magazines, about the science of gerontology, the science of putting off death or stopping death. They say, "Within twenty-thirty years we will have stopped it. We will even reverse the process of old age. We'll become younger." That was their claim.

Prabhupāda: They can do it—that is credit. But what is this credit, that people are dying and you discover atom bomb to accelerate death very quickly? If they are thinking like that, then sanity is coming. At least, they are thinking like that, that "Why death should not be stopped?" That will be credit if they can do so, but at least this question, it comes. Then they become human being, not dogs. And so long this question does not come, they are cats and dogs. This is athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the inquiry. Sanātana Gosvāmī when he approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu he first questioned this, ke āmi, keno more jape tāpa-traya: "I was minister. That's all right. But I do not know why I shall accept death. Therefore I have come to You." This is minister, intelligence, that "People praise me, I am minister, I am very learned scholar, but I do not know why I am under the tribulations of three-fold miseries, and what is my position." Ke āmi, keno more jape tapa-traya: "Who I am? I don't want all these things, why they are troubling me?" Grāmya-vyavahāre paṇḍita, tai satya kori mani: "These fools and rascals, they call me, I am very learned scholar, and I also accept it, but I do not know why I am suffering." This is Sanātana Gosvāmī's question. So what they are doing? They are making research?

Revatīnandana: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1975, Los Angeles:

Revatīnandana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Who are they? Very important men?

Revatīnandana: Well, it just said... The magazine was not terribly detailed. It just said that many scientists involved in this are claiming that within twenty-thirty years they will reverse the aging processes. I think it is a bogus claim actually. They dream all kinds of things like that.

Satsvarūpa: They say when a person is born, there is a kind of clock inside them that runs so long. If they can change that clock, then they'll make it stretch out.

Prabhupāda: Another foolishness.

Bahulāśva: Most of these big philosophers don't ever think of that question, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Bahulāśva: These big philosophers never think of that question.

Prabhupāda: Because they have no answer.

Bahulāśva: Yes.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Gerson: Oh, it is unsuccessful. Yes. I meet many people in the course of my work that are very unhappy because of the frustrations that they experience.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this place is for unhappiness. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find this place, the material world, has been described as duḥkhālayam. Duḥkhālayam means the place of miseries. So how you... If the place is made for miseries, how you can make this place as full of pleasure, if God made like that? Just like if you are put into the prison house and if you want to live very comfortably, is it possible? Prison house is meant for giving you trouble so that you may be rectified, no more stealing, not to become criminal. It is meant for punishment. Similarly, this whole material world is meant for punishing these criminals who wanted to enjoy independently God's property. They are all criminals. We are worshiping the best nationalist, who is thinking in terms that "This place is mine," philanthropist or political leader. But actually, he is a thief because he is claiming God's property as his own. He is a criminal. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-loka-maheśvaram: "I am the proprietor of all the planets, all the universes." Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām: (BG 5.29) "I am the friend of all living entities." But these people, they are claiming that... The leader is claiming, "I am the friend," and he is claiming, "I am the proprietor." They are, therefore, criminal. He is not friend. Just like your president. He is not friend of the countrymen. So this is the position of the most exalted man, and what to speak of the ordinary man? Nobody is friend. All enemies. Therefore I am envious of you, you are envious of me. There is no question of becoming friend because everyone is selfish. He wants his personal benefit, so how he can become other's friend? This is false. By false pretension, he is occupying big, big post and taking money for his sense gratification. That's all. This is material world. And to keep up his position he is proclaiming, that "I am your friend." Just like when Nixon was being elected: "America needs Nixon now." (laughter) I have seen that signboard. And then again it became, "America needs to kick out." (laughter) This is going on. This is cheating. Both of them are cheater. Those who elected him, he is also cheater, and who became elected, he is also cheater. So this is the society of cheaters and cheated. The so-called human society means the society of the cheaters and cheated. One man is cheated, another man is cheater, and alternately he is also cheated and others are cheated. This is going on.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Research. So by searching, searching, searching, if you do not come to Kṛṣṇa, then your searching is incomplete. That is the defect. And when you come to Kṛṣṇa understanding, then it is perfect. Then your research work is complete. That is... Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). Research work means... Actually, that is science, to find out the original source. Just like they are claiming, "The original source of life is chemical." That is not knowledge, imperfect knowledge. The perfect knowledge is as Kṛṣṇa says. What is that? Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). "I am the origin of everything." So when they come to Kṛṣṇa, then he finds out the original source. So that is possible by this research worker after many, many births, not many, many years, but many, many births. And bahūnāṁ janmanām ante: (BG 7.19) "After many, many births," bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān, "one who is actually advanced in knowledge, he surrenders unto Me." Why? Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), that "Kṛṣṇa is the original cause of everything." Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ: "Such research scholar, mahātmā, is very rare." And then He describes in the next verse that what is the symptom of these mahātmās, perfect soul. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ: (BG 9.13) "They are no more under the control of this material nature, they are fully under the control of spiritual nature." So what is the symptom that he is under spiritual nature, not...? Bhajanty ananya-manaso: "He is simply engaged in Kṛṣṇa." Bhajanti, "engaged in service." Bhajanty ananya-manaso: "He has no other business than to serve Kṛṣṇa." That is the symptom of a mahātmā. The Bhagavad-gītā does not say, "One who has got political business, he is mahātmā," no. Mahātmā means bhajanty ananya-manaso: "Without any diversion, simply engaged in Kṛṣṇa's business. That is mahātmā." So everything is there.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Indian guest: They are saying they are trying to learn the universe creation, see the relationship between earth's soil and geology and the geology of the moon, if there is some relationship. If the evolution process came through in some kind of joint relationship, they can establish some kind of hereditary of evolution process. They are trying to... On the top of that, they came out with a lot of electronic and gadgets to go over there. And to do any kind of adventure like this they have to design all kinds of gadgetry. And those gadgetry, they claim, is useful to human being on the earth over here because that came out...

Prabhupāda: The useful is that they have squandered so much money of the human being.

Brahmānanda: It's a big business.

Prabhupāda: And bluffed. That is usefulness.

Indian guest: They have spent hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars in that process, certainly a lot more money than one can imagine.

Bahulāśva: Even by studying the soil on the earth, Prabhupāda, they cannot make food grow without rain.

Prabhupāda: They cannot do anything. Simply they can bluff. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Everything is being done by the nature. What they can do? These foolish rascals.

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1975, Denver:

Brahmānanda:. No.

Prabhupāda: Like this.

Brahmānanda: I noticed that one review of your books was written by Mohanlal Sharma of Slippery Rock College. He wrote a very enthusiastic review.

Satsvarūpa: Yes. He claimed to be the first one to receive you at a college.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is very nice gentleman. He came to see me in New York also, with his family.

Brahmānanda: His wife is Sally?

Prabhupāda: No.

Brahmānanda: That's another girl.

Prabhupāda: He is Gopal. He came to learn electrical engineering.

Brahmānanda: Gopal.

Prabhupāda: Mmm. His father is rich man. His father came to see me, yes.

Morning Walk -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Brahmānanda: Well, they say that they can control nature.

Prabhupāda: Again foolishness. That irritates me. When they speak like that, rascal, that irritates me. (laughter) Therefore I simply call them rascal. (break) Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇaḥ. They are claiming very, very, big man, but as soon as we see that he is not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, we reject, "He is a foolish." (break) There is... That is a fact, one case was going on, and the judge was dozing, like that. So his clerk warned, "You are dozing. Big, big lawyers, they are talking." "So let these rascals go on talking. I have already concluded my..., (laughter) what judgment I shall give. Let them..." (laughs) So our is like that. We don't hear these rascals. Our judgment is already there. They are rascals. That's all. Let them talk whole day and night. The judge said to the clerk that "I have already made my judgment, so let these foolish men go on talking." (break) ...minister of Orissa, he has promised a land in Jagannātha Purī. So if we get that land, is it not possible to construct another Jagannātha temple? You'll earn the American money here.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Lt. Mozee: Any infraction against one person by another person. Any trampling on the rights of one person by another person can be a crime or should be a crime.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Our definition is the same in the Upaniṣad, that everything belongs to God. As you think everything belongs to the state, we think everything belongs to God. So you can utilize your possession, what is allotted to you. Don't encroach upon others. So people are not thinking in that way. First beginning is that you Americans, you are thinking this America land is your, although two hundred years ago it was not your. You have come from other parts of the world. Now you are claiming it is your land. But actually it is God's land. So God's land belongs to everyone. Everyone is God's children. That is our broad conception. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam: (ISO 1) "Everything belongs to God." So people have no conception of God. Everyone is practically godless. Therefore they should be educated about God. Just like the Communists. They are educating godlessness. Similarly... Just like in America they say, your government says, "We trust in God." Is it not?

Devotee: Yes.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1975, Chicago:

Lakṣmī-nārāyaṇa: But the bones of those people that they've found, where are their bodies now? Have they gone to some other...?

Prabhupāda: No, no, you might have found in your country. But that is not final that you have seen all the bones. (break) Darwin has... He is now dead. Now, even nowadays they are finding new bones. So how he studies perfect? He is now dead and gone.

Brahmānanda: Actually they are finding bones now, they claim, that challenge his theory. They are much older than what he ever thought. So they have to change all the calculations.

Lakṣmī-nārāyaṇa: Even their method for dating the bones is defective also.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Lakṣmī-nārāyaṇa: They have a scientific, not scientific, but they have a process how they date the bones. It's called the carbon 14 dating process, and it's been proved defective. (break)

Jayatīrtha: ...so many bones, they should draw the conclusion that the big problem is death.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) That is impossible, sir. You lick up your bones, but you have to die. You have to lay down your bone now.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Jayatīrtha: In two weeks.

Prabhupāda: She has divorced two husbands. And when the press reporters asked her, she replied, "Yes, it was a mistake." And still, they want to be equal with man. She commits mistake twice in two week, and still she claims to be equal with man. So we have got our school, Dallas, we are teaching the small children to make the boys first-class men, as it is enunciated in the Bhagavad-gītā, and woman to become very faithful and chaste. That's all. This is our education. Then it will be very happy home and people will live very peacefully, and then other things can be executed. If the home is not peaceful, always disturbed in mind, and one has to adopt twice in a week divorce, then how there can be peace? This is not freedom, this is disturbance. Freedom does not mean disturbance of peace. Freedom means that maintenance of peace.

Sandy Nixon: I've got a good question. How can we get a God conscious leader in this country?

Prabhupāda: You come and live with us. You'll get God. Just like so many boys...

Sandy Nixon: As a president in this country.

Prabhupāda: President?

Jayatīrtha: How to get a God conscious leader?

Sandy Nixon: God conscious president.

Press Conference -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Bhaktadāsa: ...photograph, we'd like to introduce the founder-ācārya spiritual master of the entire Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, who founded this movement in 1966, coming here to America from Calcutta. Now His Divine Grace has very kindly once again come to San Francisco to lead us in this holy Rathayātrā Jagannātha cart parade. And we will ask him the questions that you have written down, and he will answer those questions, like that. So the first question, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is "What is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement?"

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that every one of us is in some type of consciousness: "I am American," "I am Indian," and, "It is my property," "America is my property," "India is my property." But we say that "Everything is Kṛṣṇa's property." Kṛṣṇa is the... Kṛṣṇa, God, when we say Kṛṣṇa, we mean God. God is the original proprietor. And He is, therefore, the supreme enjoyer, and He is everyone's friend. If we understand these three things, then we become peaceful. If all the nations in the United Nations assembly accept that everything belongs to God, then their quarrel between one nation to another nation immediately stops. But present fighting is that two hundred years ago the Americans were mostly in Europe. Now they have migrated and claiming America is theirs. So we think always that "All land belongs to God." Just like this big ocean. Who has created this ocean? Man has not created. Therefore, if God has created, then God is the proprietor. Take land, water. These are the material elements. Who has created such vast sky? That is also material. So we think in that way and try to find out the answer from authoritative sources. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1975, San Francisco:

Bahulāśva: The whole human civilization.

Prabhupāda: Where is civilization? (laughter) The mother is killing child—is that civilization? Where is civilization? Less than doggish civilization. Dog also do not do that. And they are claiming civilization, nonsense rascals. Mother is killing child, and is that civilization? Less than dogs and cats. The dogs and cats also do not kill their children. They try to protect. You know? The cats, they carry their cubs from one place to another so that the male cat may not kill. The tiger also do that. The tiger, they also give protection to the...

Brahmānanda: The rats, they sometimes do that.

Prabhupāda: Everyone. Mother's affection is natural. Now the civilized mother is killing child. This is your civilization. This is your religion, this is your science, philosophy—everything. And for this, you have created so many big, big buildings to create some less than animals. Civilization is finished unless you take to Kṛṣṇa conscious. Now dictatorship is coming, politics. The dictator can arrest anyone without any trial and stop him. Even their own circle, the Communists... Nobody knows where is Kruschev. Indira Gandhi is doing.

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1975, San Francisco:

Devotee: This Guru Maharaji claims to be God, but he had to go to childbirth class to learn how to have one child.

Prabhupāda: You should not talk about him, these rascals. Na tasya kāryam kāraṇam ca vidyate, na tasya samaḥ adhikaś ca dṛśyate. This is the definition of God, that he has nothing to do personally. When Kṛṣṇa kills the demons outside Vṛndāvana, He is not original Kṛṣṇa; He is Vāsudeva. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). When Kṛṣṇa is acting universally, that is Vāsudeva. Original Kṛṣṇa is always in Vṛndāvana.

Jayatīrtha: If the original Kṛṣṇa is always in Vṛndāvana, then why do the gopīs and Rādhārāṇī feel separation from Him?

Prabhupāda: That is here, in this material world. In the spiritual world Kṛṣṇa does not leave.

Jayatīrtha: Oh.

Prabhupāda: And even in the material world, Kṛṣṇa superficially has gone to Mathurā, but He has captured the heart of the gopīs. So He is not leaving. Gopīs are enjoying Kṛṣṇa by separation. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's feeling, how He is appreciating Kṛṣṇa by separation.

Morning Walk -- July 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Therefore you are rascal. You do not know who is doing. That is rascal. You are thinking everyone like you. That is nonsense. Ātmavat manyate jagat: Everyone is think that 'Other party is like me.' " (break) ...so many conditions are fulfilled, then some action takes place, five. There are mainly five causes. (break) ...God throws a stone, big stone, it floats because He is God. When you throw a stone, it will drown. When God makes one big planet floating, that is possible. You cannot do it. Therefore you have to accept

Rādhāvallabha: (break) ...on a small scale we have set up...

Prabhupāda: Therefore you accept that you are small. You are not the great. God is great; you are small. So claim a small credit, don't claim as good as God. That is your foolishness. Because we are part and parcel of God, we have got capacity to do part and parcel, not the whole. So remain small, don't try to become big. Remain servant of God. Don't try to become God, that is foolishness. That is our philosophy. Tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. Remain humble and meek. You will understand God. (end)

Morning Walk -- July 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Rādhā-vallabha: I read it last night.

Prabhupāda: What is the subject matter?

Rādhā-vallabha: Well, it seems that they're complaining that people are depending on faith for their knowledge. So their claim is that "We do not depend on this faith. We simply take a group of facts, and from these facts, this strong body of facts, we develop a theory which will explain them."

Prabhupāda: Theory is not faith? Theory is not faith?

Jayādvaita: They say that the theory, it's simply an idea of how it could happen.

Prabhupāda: That is faith.

Jayādvaita: But they don't believe the theory until they think they have sufficient facts.

Prabhupāda: That is faith, I dare say, blind faith.

Rādhā-vallabha: These facts, these theories, are tested. By presenting more and more facts in the light of this theory, either the theory collapses under the new facts or it becomes strengthened. So by this method...

Prabhupāda: What are the facts?

Rādhā-vallabha: Well, for example, you may see that living beings are reproducing geometrically. One couple produces two children, those children each produce two children, so in that way it appears that the animal population should be increasing geometrically. And we can see that...

Prabhupāda: Who made that geometric?

Rādhā-vallabha: This is all just going on.

Morning Walk -- July 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is already there. You are living more than the ants. That is already there.

Rādhā-vallabha: Their claim is that within a particular species the variations from birth to birth...

Prabhupāda: Can they increase the life period of an ant?

Rādhā-vallabha: Well, their claim is that this can happen.

Prabhupāda: "Can happen," that post-dated check again. This is the only shelter, post-dated check.

Hṛdayānanda: So it again comes down to faith on their part.

Prabhupāda: All rascals. Don't waste time. But see their rascaldom.

Satsvarūpa: One claim the scientists make is that they're more humble in their knowledge than we are. They don't say that this is the absolute...

Prabhupāda: Why we should be humble? We are not foolish men, that we shall be humble. We must be proud of our knowledge. You are foolish; you become humble. (laughter) The dog is humble; man is not humble. The dog may bark, and man—"Shut up!" Immediately... So you are like dogs. (laughter)

Morning Walk -- July 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Why we should be humble? We are not foolish men, that we shall be humble. We must be proud of our knowledge. You are foolish; you become humble. (laughter) The dog is humble; man is not humble. The dog may bark, and man—"Shut up!" Immediately... So you are like dogs. (laughter)

Rādhā-vallabha: Their claim is that species are not constant like our claim. They say that species constantly change till the original species is gone and a new species is created.

Prabhupāda: What is that original species?

Rādhā-vallabha: Well, they say originally chemicals. Originally very complex chemicals, acids...

Prabhupāda: Very complex again. So they cannot understand. So complex that they cannot understand. So what is the use of such theory?

Rādhā-vallabha: Well, they say these complex chemicals came from the simplest chemicals.

Prabhupāda: Wherefrom?

Rādhā-vallabha: Well, they say in space there are many, many particles.

Prabhupāda: How the space came?

Rāmeśvara: That's eternal. They say it's eternal. They say the space and the dust...

Prabhupāda: Then why do you bother? Stop speculating. Everything is eternal. Why do you bother yourself to find out something new?

Morning Walk -- July 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: We... Let us accept forms, not species but forms. It doesn't matter. There is only change of words. There are so many forms.

Rādhā-vallabha: They say that the amount of forms is not constant because by breeding different forms together they can create completely new forms that never existed before.

Prabhupāda: What is the use of creating new forms? Already there are eight million.

Rādhā-vallabha: But their claim is that by breeding different forms together they will get superior forms. They give the example...

Prabhupāda: You cannot maintain your own child form. You are killing, and what is the use of increasing?

Rādhā-vallabha: Well, for example they used to have wild boars. They could not eat them. But they have bred now very fat pigs to eat. So they consider this to be a great advantage.

Yadubara: Also with fruits and vegetables they are combining and creating new types.

Prabhupāda: Factually, (indistinct) so many varieties.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Guest: The reason why I asked was because other spiritual masters such as Jesus and the Buddha have required first that people give all of their possession to the poor rather than give them to a community fund such as the Self-Realization Fellowship, the Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, or any other...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is right, because after all... Why to the poor? We say... I do not know whether Jesus Christ, Lord Buddha, said, but generally people are inclined to give to the poor. That, suppose you have got some money. I go: "Sir, give us some contribution for spending for Kṛṣṇa consciousness." He will not like very much. And if I go, ask some money, that "I am going to open some hospital for the poor suffering humanity," he will give immediately. Is it not the general tendency? If I say a moneyed man, "Please give me some money. I will spend it for Kṛṣṇa," he will not give. (chuckles) But if I approach him that "I am going to open a charitable institution for the poor," he will give me. So these Jesus Christ and Lord Buddha has said like that just to try to this, make this man dispossess. But he will not be inclined to pay for Kṛṣṇa; he will be inclined for the poor. The real purpose is to make him dispossess. Unless he is penniless, he will not take to God. So the real purpose is to make him dispossess. But he will not be inclined to pay his money for God. So let him pay to the poor, that's all. Otherwise, if anyone has got money, he should return it to God because it is God's money. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ yat kiñcit jagatyāṁ jagat (ISO 1). Find out this, Īśopaniṣad. Everything belongs to God. That I was speaking, that we don't possess anything. This big ocean, is it our property? But we are claiming, "This portion of Pacific is mine." How it became yours? Did your father manufacture it? But we are claiming falsely, "This is mine. This is American portion, and this is Japanese portion. This is that portion and..." We do not possess it; we falsely claim it. This is our position. Actually it is the possession of God. God has created this land, this ocean, the sky, the air, the fire. You have not created. So how claim? We are claiming, "This space is our. You cannot fly your plane on this space." Do they not do like that? But how the space came to your possession? You have not created it. This is misunderstanding. I do not possess it; still, I claim, "It is my property." And there is fight. You are claiming something your property, I am claiming something as my property, but none of them belongs to you or me.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: Nature's arrangement... In this material world you cannot eat without working. Even if you are lion-lion is considered to be the most powerful animal—he has to capture one animal. He cannot think that "Let me sleep, and the animal will come automatically in my mouth." It is not possible. You have to work; this is the material world. So that work is simple work. If you have got land... Everyone has got land. You just work little, and it will produce your food grains. And the food grains will give food to the animal and man. The animal, cow, he will eat the grass, and you will take the grains. Why should you kill the animal? You haven't got to arrange for his food. You produce paddy. The plant, when it is dried, it is good for animals, and you take the grains. Why should you kill him? And he will deliver you. If you protect his life, he will give you nice milk. So you keep animal, cows, and grow food grain; then your food problem is solved. So if your food problem is solved and your cloth problems is solved, then where is your economic necessity? Then you save time and cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So real business will be how to cultivate, how to become advanced in God consciousness. That the animal cannot do. You are claiming more intelligence than the animals, so use your intelligence in this way. Don't spoil day and night for your economic development. So-called economic development means as soon as you become stout and strong, then sense gratification. Then you cultivate the culture of nudism. That Los Angeles beach, "Beach for nudies." Is not written there?

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1975, Bombay:

Lalitā: What you say, you act according to that.

Prabhupāda: No, what I learn from Kṛṣṇa I say. I don't say independently. That is not my business. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction. (break) How? Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). You deliver your village people and become a guru. Everyone is not going to be so big that he can go all over the world. But everyone can teach within his limit, within his family, within his community, within his village, within his town, within his district. As he is capable, he can increase. But everyone can become a guru and deliver the local people. How? Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Then you are guru. As soon as you manufacture anything nonsense, then it is spoiled. That is going on. So many gurus are there; they are manufacturing. They are becoming Kṛṣṇa. That is nonsense. That is nonsense. You cannot become Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). Bhagavān sakala hṛdaya... (break) Can you stay in everyone's heart? You are claiming God. This one instance. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛdeśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati. He is aṇḍāntara-sthaṁ-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ. He is within this universe, and He is within the atom. You are claiming to be Īśvara, God. Are you within the atom? Are you within everyone's heart? Then how do you claim that you are Īśvara? Practical. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ (BG 18.61). Īśvara, God, God is everyone's heart. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭhaḥ (BG 15.15). (Bengali) ...on the basis of Bhagavad-gītā... (Bengali) And as soon as you manufacture something, then it is spoiled. (Bengali) That is going on. The so-called gurus, they get some mystic power, yoga-siddhi, and they show it and they mislead people that he is God. That is the difficulty. We never said... Where is that book? (Bengali) ...gurus. Again he has to go? (Bengali) So far as I am concerned, these things are not there. About me, I am... In Dallas I am taking one child's hand and I am teaching them how to write "a," "a." (Bengali) Where is that professors?

Brahmānanda: Professor...

Prabhupāda: No, all these professors. Those who are purchasing our books.

Morning Walk -- September 4, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But they will not work. (break) ...gradually. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...Who does not deviate from the instruction of the Lord, he is Aryan. All others, non-Aryan. The Aryans will take the words of God as it is, without any deviation. That is Aryan. An Aryan means advanced, advanced in knowledge, and one who is advanced in knowledge, he is advanced civilized. Rascal fools, how they can be civilized? Everyone is claiming "Aryan," but he does not know what is the business of Aryans. Simply by some bodily feature... The same ignorance—"I am this body." So by the bodily features they settle up: "This is from Aryan family; this is from non-Aryan family." That is good. That is external. Real Aryan means one who is advanced in knowledge and goes by the order of Kṛṣṇa, or God. (aside:) Jaya.

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, what...? I do not follow what you say.

Brahmānanda: He's saying that Ṛṣabhadeva performed austerity, so therefore I am performing austerity.

Prabhupāda: You are performing but what is Ṛṣabhadeva's position?

Brahmānanda: He never claimed to merge with the supreme consciousness.

Dhanañjaya: But the whole thing is that the supreme consciousness is unembodied and we are embodied right now. So when we attain supreme consciousness we also become unembodied.

Prabhupāda: How you become embodied if you are supreme? Who made you embodied if you are supreme? Then who made you embodied, he is supreme. You are not supreme. You did not like to be embodied; therefore you are trying to be bodyless. But who made you embodied? Then that he or she is supreme. You are not supreme.

Dhṛṣṭaketu: I put myself in this condition so that I can enjoy getting out of it.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Dhṛṣṭaketu: I put myself in this condition of illusion so that I can enjoy being liberated.

Prabhupāda: And so you put yourself to be kicked by me and enjoy. Just test what is the enjoyment of being kicked.

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: We have no eyes to see. We see through Kṛṣṇa. As Kṛṣṇa sees, we see. This is Kṛṣṇa conscious. We are not perfect. Our position is that we are not perfect. But we are perfect so long we follow Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Just like I am blind man. I am not perfect. But if you have got eyes, if you take me I follow you. Then I am perfect. Kṛṣṇa assures that "You surrender to Me and I will make you free from all dangers," and we accept Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Our method is very easy. The child is walking, unable to walk, falling down. The parents say, father says, "My dear child, just catch my hand." Then he's safe. These Māyāvādīs, they go against the verdict of God. God says that "The living entities are My part and parcel," and they say, "I am God." So that is their foolishness. Part and parcel... Kṛṣṇa says, mamaivaṁso jīva-bhutaḥ (BG 15.7). Otherwise why God says, "Surrender unto Me," if you are equal with Him? Why God is asking, "Surrender unto Me"? You are not equal. You are rascal. You are claiming that "I am equal." Otherwise there is no question of surrender. "You surrender unto Me." And this knowledge of surrender comes, Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām: "This rascal is always thinking 'I am God, God, God.' This rascaldom is finished after many, many births, this ignorance." Then he surrenders. How the living entity is equal with God?

Morning Walk -- September 25, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: It is not possible. It is all foolishness.

Kartikeya: We can go this small park.

Harikeśa: It's a nice park?

Kartikeya: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Now these rascal Westerners, there the women claiming equal rights. Change that the man will give birth to a child and not the woman.

Kartikeya: Equal right.

Prabhupāda: Equal rights. Make agreement. "Once you beget; once I shall." (laughs) Make this contract. Then it is equal right. If the woman has to give birth of a child and she has to suffer all the pains thereof, then where is the equal right? Where is equal right? Nature has said, "You must suffer." The husband, the so-called husband, will give birth, er, will utilize you for sex satisfaction, and you will be pregnant, and he will go away and you will suffer the whole life to maintain the child, welfare—"Give me some money"—or this or that. Where is equal right? He is free. He has gone away. Huh? This is general experience in the Western countries.

Morning Walk -- September 26, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (loud car noise)

Indian man (7): And I think that it is badly needed.

Indian man (8): (break) That gentleman whispered in my ear, that "I am mūḍha" he said. And I said, "Yes, you are a mūḍha." (laughter)

Prabhupāda: He confirmed it. That he is.

Indian man (8): But he said that "I am a rākṣasa, maybe. Of course, you are like that."

Prabhupāda: Then anyone. Why he is alone? Anyone.

Indian man (8): No, he claims that "I am a mūḍha." "Yes," I said, "you are." When he questioned, I have to reply.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Indian man (8) : Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: You are a scientist. How you can deny God? Then what kind of scientist you are? The Bible has done wrong. Throw it away. I have no objection. But you are scientist. How you can deny God? And that is our point. Come to this logic, that "How we can deny God?" You are speaking that from chemical combination life is formed. Do it in the laboratory. You cannot do it. Why you are propagating false propaganda? What kind of scientist? Then you are also to be kicked out. If Bible is to be kicked out you are also to be kicked out. Why you are claiming your position? You prove first of all. You combine chemical and produce a life. And you are making false propaganda, so you are to be kicked out. They say, "We shall do in future." And what is the future? Then why you are at present making false propaganda. Wait for the future. Post-dated check. "In future I shall pay." Who will accept this check? Any nonsense will accept.

Morning Walk -- October 12, 1975, Durban:

Indian man (3): Quite right.

Prabhupāda: If you say like a rascal that "I am God," is that knowledge?

Indian man (3): It's no knowledge at all.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Still they claim they are advanced Aryans.

Indian lady: And Vallabhācārya?

Prabhupāda: Vallabhācārya, he was a Vaiṣṇava. He worships Kṛṣṇa, Bal Kṛṣṇa. That's all right.

Indian lady: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.

Indian man: (Indian man asks Prabhupāda if he speaks Gujarati in Gujarati or Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Na Gujarati, ne. Hindi I can. (break) ...the four sampradāyas: Rāmānuja, Madhvācārya, then Viṣṇu Svāmī. Vallabhācārya belongs to the Viṣṇu Svāmī group, and we belong to Madhvācārya, so there is no difference.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Harikeśa: Well, the egg is not fertilized, so it's not yet a chicken. It's just an egg.

Prabhupāda: So that's all right. It is lump of matter. So you take a lump of matter and fertilize a life.

Harikeśa: Well, I’m convinced. There's nothing… (laughing) … nothing left to say.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The argument is that the scientists are claiming they can do so many big things, but they can’t even manufacture one egg.

Prabhupāda: That's it. And these rascals are talking very big, big words. That has to be stopped, that “Don’t talk nonsense and bluff people and take high salary, simply cheating. Don’t cheat any more. Admit that you cannot do anything. You simply bluff. That's all.” That is to be done.

Harikeśa: “Well, with all our research we’re finding cures to so many diseases. With our research…”

Prabhupāda: That, you nonsense, you go on doing, but no disease is stopped. You… Futile attempt.

Harikeśa: "But twenty years ago there was so much smallpox everywhere. But now…"

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. You have stopped smallpox, but you have increased cancer. So what is the use?

Harikeśa: "Now we are finding a cure for that also."

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: It is not dogmatic. When I say, "Next February will be very nice season," it is not dogmatic. It is by experience. Last February or many other Februarys I have experienced. Therefore I say, "Next February will be like this." That is not cheating, neither dogmatic. That is experience. That example I gave many times, that a child asks from the father, "Father, what is this?" The father says, "My dear son, it is microphone. If you speak, it will be recorded." So I take it from my father this is microphone. So I may be child, but when I say, "It is microphone," that is correct because I have taken from the authority. If a child is asked, "What is this? Do you know?" if I say, "Yes, it is microphone," that is correct. And if he, the man, says, "How do you know it is microphone?" "My father said." Then he is correct. I may be disqualified as a child, but because I have taken the words from my qualified father, it is correct. That is our process. I don't claim that I am very big man, but we repeat only what we have heard from Kṛṣṇa. That's all. You may accept it, not accept. That is your business. Therefore I named it Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are speaking simply what Kṛṣṇa has said, and we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. This is our business. Now, in the market so many things are being sold, not that everything has got all customers. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness may not be accepted by all. That is the case in everything. But what we are presenting, that is standard. We are not cheating.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: So similarly, they are keeping men as dogs, and they want peace. How it is possible? They are educating general mass of people like cats and dogs, and they want peace. How it is possible? Make them first of all sober men. Then there is question of peace. (break) ...God consciousness, there is no question of peace. (break) If we know that the Supreme Lord, God, is our father, and He has..., everything belongs to Him, His property; therefore, instead of fighting, let us enjoy father's property peacefully. Then there will be peace. We are peacefully walking in this park because we know that it is commonwealth; it is government's property. I can walk, and the dog can also walk. Then there will be peace. And if I think, "No, it is my property," and you think your property, then there will be fight between you and me. So where is peace? Why you claim South Africa as your property? You are foreigner. You want peace. You are expert in keeping them subdued, the Africans. Otherwise, lawfully, it is African property. Why you have taken? Either you make it God's property, otherwise make it African property. You have no right to come here. If you say God's property, then everyone has got equal right. So they do not know what is the meaning of peace.

Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: There was no economic problem. Every time... Always this system is followed: cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭām (BG 4.13). And it is the duty of the government to see that this classification is properly being executed. That is the duty of the government. Secular state means that as you like, you can become. But if you claim to become a brāhmaṇa, you must act as a brāhmaṇa, not that you act as a śūdra, bangi, and also you are brāhmaṇa. No. That will not be allowed by the government.

Indian man (1): The purity must be there.

Prabhupāda: (break) Yes. In the whole world you won't find qualified brāhmaṇas. And they are required for guiding the human society. So therefore the human society is in chaotic condition. There is no guidance. The śūdras, they make things by vote. And what they'll vote? They're all rascals. What is the value of their votes? So that is going on all over the world. Fools and rascals they vote, and another rascal is selected. And after some time—"Oh, he is not suitable. Get him down," Nixon, and replace another fool, rascal. That's all.

Indian man (1): That is continuously going on.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Going on. The democracy means the selector, the elector, they are all fools and rascals. So how he will select a person who is not rascal?

Morning Walk -- October 25, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Simply bogus propaganda. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...that their educational system has failed. Therefore they...

Prabhupāda: Yes. They should close the universities and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So by birth they want to make better men. They can't make them by culture.

Prabhupāda: No, culture... They adopt real culture. What do they know about culture? They're killing their own children in the womb, and they're cultured? Worse than the animals. The animals do not do that. These rascals, they are cultured? So wretched and fallen, and they are claiming to be cultured.

Harikeśa: So you can't culture a superior man unless you are one yourself.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Harikeśa: It's not possible to culture a superior man unless you are one yourself.

Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all be yourself a cultured man, a gentleman. You are worse than animals. What animals cannot do, you are doing. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...man is defined by Cāṇakya Paṇḍit.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Harikeśa: I think he was also the same one who was saying the Aquarian Gospel was just somebody's dream.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but you are also dreaming. Why do you claim that your dream is all right; his dream is wrong? Dreaming is wrong. If his dream is wrong—you are also dreaming—you are also wrong. Why do you claim that your dream is all right? That is nonsense. Everyone thinks that he is right and everyone is wrong. We do not think like that. We take the words of the authority, that's all. Or we have no respect(?). This is our program. That is the way of paramparā. Not only we accept, but our previous ācāryas, all the big, big ācāryas, they have accepted. Śukadeva Gosvāmī said. He is ācārya. Vyāsadeva says from the very beginning. Kṛṣṇa says. That's all right. We take these authorities. We do not dream. That is not our process. Dream, your dream or my dream, this is all rascal. Dream is dream. Why do you think that your dream is right and my dream is wrong?

Brahmānanda: That's why they're always bickering with one another.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no standard idea. I dream some way; you dream some way. That's all. What is this?

Cyavana: Seaweed.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Then where is the meaning of "automatic"?

Brahmānanda: But their idea is that they can change the automatic control to suit their own...

Prabhupāda: That is their... That is their stupidity. Therefore they are fit for being kicked. That is the disease-imagining, obstinacy. They cannot do anything; still they'll claim they can do. "Pay me my salary."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What is the position of the scientist who studies the laws of nature and then he tries to utilize them for his advantage, exploits them?

Prabhupāda: That's all right. The law is there. That is not his law. So his intelligence will be there when he understands who has made this law. Then his intelligence. That is intelligence.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Just like making airplane. They observe the bird, and then they make...

Prabhupāda: Now, that they... When they admit, "Oh, this law is made (heavy static) ," then they come to senses.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: That is natural. When they plunder, they are united, and when they share, there will be fight. This is psychology. When plundering others' property they will unite and take the whole thing, and then, when they come for sharing, there will be fight. This is the psychology everywhere. Therefore there are so many parties. Just like in India the... Of course, Congress Party was the predominant to fight with the Britishers. And as soon as they got independence, so many hundred thousand parties grew up: the Congress Party, the RSS party, the Hindu-mazara(?) party, the Muslim League party, this party, this party. And then they began to fight. This is the way. Senayor eva sa ucyate. All these thieves and rascal, rogues... God's property, why you should fight amongst themselves? Property belongs to somebody else. Insanity. Just like this is government park. Anyone can come in. Everyone can equally enjoy. So why not make the whole world as Kṛṣṇa's park? What is the difficulty? Actually it is the fact. Why do you claim? Now we have come. If you say, "No, this portion belongs to us," and another, "This portion belongs to us," then there will be fight. And if we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, every one of us, that if they see Kṛṣṇa's property, so let us enjoy. What is the cause of fighting? The hotels are the centers for all kinds of sinful activity. Huh? Illicit sex, drinking, gambling and meat-eating. No discrimination.

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Brāhmaṇa's qualification is there—śama, dama, titikṣa, ārjavam and jñānam, vijñānam, āstikyam, brahma-karma... (BG 18.42). Everything is there, the symptoms. So you are doing business, the occupation of the vaiśyas or śūdras, and how you are claiming to become brāhmaṇa? The... Who is a brāhmaṇa, that symptoms is there in the śāstra. And not only the symptoms, Nārada Muni has said, "If these symptoms are found elsewhere, then he should be accepted according to the symptom." There is no question of birth. Yasya hi yaḻ lakṣanām proktaṁ varṇābhivyanjakaṁ yady anyātrāpi dṛṣyeta tat tenaiva viniriset. This is Nārada's vision. So it is the symptom. Just like a doctor, medical man. He diagnoses according to the symptom. He finds out the cause. So symptom is required, not that a man has become diseased or healthy by birth. No. By birth he is born. Then again, when he develops certain types of symptom, so one has to take him in that way. That is śāstra. We are accepting, or giving them sacred thread, brāhmaṇa, after seeing that they are actually acting as a brāhmaṇa, not superficially. Therefore we take some time to see whether he can develop brahminical symptom. That is our process, not that anyone comes, and we give him a sacred thread and he becomes immediately brāhmaṇa. We don't do this. First of all give him chance. Let him chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, follows the rules and regulations. Then let us see. If he is actually serious, he has developed the symptom, then... This is the proper way. Even one comes from the brāhmaṇa family—he wants initiation—we don't give immediately, even if he is coming from a brāhmaṇa... That is a good facility, that he is born in a brāhmaṇa family, but the symptom is the first necessity. Either you are born in a brāhmaṇa family or śūdra family, it doesn't matter.

Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: By international scholars' meeting these diacritic marks were discovered for studying Sanskrit. The diacritic marks which we use, that is international agreement of Sanskrit scholars.

Dr. Patel: Yes. Yes. Those marks. A, and a and u and ai and these dots. Yes, that is international. Nobody can claim. That is long back, sir. I think Max Muller's time.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: There were so many scholars, even in Paris, Germany, and Italy.

Prabhupāda: Professor Roe and Webb, they were professor in Presidency College when we were school children. They admitted Sanskrit is the mother of all languages.

Dr. Patel: In fact, Persian is the first letter of Sanskrit which looks like that. When you study Persian, so many words-Sanskrit directly taken Persian. In the Russian language, I mean, so many words are there of Sanskrit.

Prabhupāda: No, whole world you'll find Sanskrit. The first word, mother and father, that is Sanskrit, matri and pitri.

Morning Walk -- November 30, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Gossiping, that's all. And keeping the files thrown away. If you want some reference, it will take three months.

Tejās: That one devotee who was given brāhmaṇa initiation, he was working in the government. So previously he would just go in the morning, and sometimes he wouldn't even go. His section officer would go... One of them would go and punch in and the rest of the day... They have no work even. And then in the evening one has to cover the punch out. That's the only thing.

Harikeśa: In the communistic system everybody works very hard.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what they claim, but everything belongs to the state. Why should they work hard?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ambarīṣa: They work very hard because they have a gun pointed at their head.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Now the Russians are gradually trying to change to the American system in the sense that if a worker produces more, he is given some bonus. They are trying to give incentives to the workers so that they are tempted to work hard.

Prabhupāda: But what they will do with the money?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Just buy a little more vodka.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is referred, but whatever Rāmacandra says, you should do that. You should not imitate. There are two words: following and imitating. Imitation is not good. Following is good. Yad yad ācarati zreṣ... You can... That I have already explained. Can you construct a bridge on the ocean? You are claiming, yad yad acarati. Can you do this? Then why do you say like that? You cannot imitate. You can follow only. "Because Rāmacandra ate meat, so I am eating meat. I become Rāmacandra." And why don't you construct a bridge on the ocean?

Akṣayānanda: So actually, perfect kings, they may have eaten meat? Perfect kings...

Prabhupāda: No, perfect king must follow the Vedic injunction.

Akṣayānanda: They would never eat meat, even though they are kṣatriyas.

Prabhupāda: No, kṣatriyas are allowed. That is by hunting, not otherwise. Or yajña. Everything is there in the śāstra. (break) ...candra, even He was eating meat, is there any instance in the temple Rāmacandra is offered meat? Then why do you claim, "Rāmacandra used to eat meat, therefore I shall eat"? All rascals. Kṛṣṇa, He ate fire, khāṇḍava-dāna. But what He asked you to offer? Does He says that "You offer Me fire"? He says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). Does He say that "You give Me fire. I shall eat"?

Akṣayānanda: You mean He eats fire in His representation as the fire-god?

Prabhupāda: No representation. As He is. He never assumed as fire-god. He was boy and playing, and there was fire and He ate it. That is God, not that He became a fire-god. What is fire-god? Thousands of fire-gods are staying on the nail of His feet. Why He should become a fire-god? Mahat-padam. Kṛṣṇa's another name is mahat-padam. The whole energy of material world is on His feet. Samāsrit ye pada-pallava-plava mahat-pada puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ. So they attend maṅgala-arati?

Guṇārṇava: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1975, Vrndavana:

Indian man: Somebody put a question to Bhagavan Rajneesh that "you claim that you are God. Can you show us your universal form?" He said, "Well, I can show you. First you come like an Arjuna. First you become Arjuna. Then I can show you a universal form."

Prabhupāda: So he admits that much.

Akṣayānanda: That he cannot.

Indian man: No, he admits that he can, but he has put...

Prabhupāda: "So that's all right. Have you shown anyone your universal form amongst so many, your disciples? Have you shown?" The next question should be like that.

Indian man: He never asked. I was hearing tape in one life member's house.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, if... You learn that, "Have you shown ever your universal form to any one of your disciples?"

Indian man: There was not such intelligent person to ask this.

Prabhupāda: That is the... Say.

Morning Walk -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Harikeśa: So if we economically develop, we don't even have to search out...

Prabhupāda: No, no, you are opening factories. They are not opening factories. Nature's food is already there. And "Be satisfied, take this." That's all. That much endeavour is required. That is material world.

Harikeśa: So in other words he has to look for food, but man has to make a factory in order to look for food...

Prabhupāda: No, he hasn't got to make factory. He has got also food but he... If he does, he is claiming to be more civilized. He has complicated his activities by opening factories. That's all. He has got also food. Let everyone remain in nature's... You take fruit from the trees and drink milk, you are also sufficient. You don't require to cook even. There are fruits. Formerly all the sages they were taking fruits from the trees, and milk from the cows. That's all. They did not even produce food. Like agriculture. No. Whatever nature is supplying, that's all. But you are killing the cows, eating the meat, and producing no food and and making things, complicated. This is your civilization. (a car accelerates past)

Harikeśa: It's a lot of fun to drive fast cars and have sex and see movies and... This is fun you know. It's the only way to enjoy!

Prabhupāda: Yes. Enjoyment is there in the cats and dogs. When you enjoy sex in palace and the dog enjoys sex on the street, the value is the same. The taste does not increase or decrease. But you are thinking to enjoy sex in big palace is advancement. That is your foolishness. Actually sex enjoyment in the palace or on the street is the same. It has no difference of taste.

Morning Walk -- December 19, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Aryans means to follow Vedic instructions.

Dr. Patel: They have forgotten.

Prabhupāda: That is Aryans. So they are now the same thing. A person born in a brāhmaṇa family, he is claiming "I am brāhmaṇa." Similarly, even though born in Aryan family, without any culture they are claiming "I am Aryan." Kṛṣṇa observed it in Arjuna, and therefore He chastised him, "This kind of proposal is anārya-juṣṭam. Under the non-Aryans, you're forgetting your duty." That is the beginning of loss of culture. A small beginning, it creates havoc. Kṛṣṇa warned this, anārya-juṣṭam. Kṣatriya's description is given in the Bhāgavata: yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam, not to go behind. They must fight. That is Aryan culture.

Dr. Patel: They are doing strategical fight. Strategically great. They should not repeat, but our army is doing strategical fight.

Prabhupāda: There is a Bengali saying-palabanata boineki(?): "Am I afraid of you, that I shall not go away?"

Dr. Patel: (laughing) I understand.

Prabhupāda: "I must go away. That is my independence!"

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Harikeśa: Kṛṣṇa is the strongest.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the proprietor." But they'll not accept it. Kṛṣṇa says, the real proprietor says, that "I am the bhokta. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29)." But they are so rascal that they will deny the existence of Kṛṣṇa or God, or the real proprietor. They claim to be proprietor for a few days, and they, by one slap of Kṛṣṇa's hand, they finished all proprietorship, and they are going, struggling. This ignorance is prevailing all over the world. Does not know who is the proprietor, how I became proprietor, how I shall be enjoying. Nothing. The same thing, the dog philosophy: if the dog secures a morsel of bread, he's thinking, "I am proprietor." Another one snatches: "I am proprietor." This is going on. But the dog has no sense that none of us will be proprietor. So when you know who is the proprietor, then this Īśopaniṣad.... Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything, God's property. You enjoy for livelihood what is given to you. That's all. That is perfect philosophy. "I am the proprietor." That was the system in Vedic civilization. God is proprietor. King is the representative of God. He knows.... He gives you some land, that "You take this land, produce your livelihood, utilizing this land, and whatever you produce, one fourth give me." Not a fixed tax. "If you produce, one fourth is mine. If you don't produce, there is no tax." This was the system. And that includes all tax. No botheration. So people were God-fearing, honest, simple-dealing. So "I have produced a hundred mounds of rice.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: Virginia smells like this.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Harikeśa: Virginia, in America. There, all they do is grow tobacco now. (break)

Haṁsadūta: .... But on the other hand, they claim that there are certain laws which govern this material nature. This is a complete contradictory position.

Hariśauri: A law means there has to be some compliance to a higher authority.

Prabhupāda: So discuss all these nonsense propositions.

Harikeśa: Somebody...? (break)

Prabhupāda: He has clearly proved that Darwin is a fool. He's wrong. He has not written the word "fool," but he's wrong. (end)

Page Title:Claim (Conversations 1974 - 1975)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:17 of Feb, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=135, Let=0
No. of Quotes:135