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Claim (Conversations 1968 - 1973)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- February 1, 1968, Los Angeles:

Interviewer: What is the significance of... Right after the chanting, everyone bows, and that I don't understand, what they're doing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is offering respect. The whole, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is to ask people to surrender to God. They have rebelled against God. Somebody says, "There is no God." Somebody says that "I am God." These nonsense things are to be eradicated from human society. So they should be trained to submit. So the submission is symbolized by bowing down: "Yes, you are great; I am humble." This should be taught. Otherwise, whimsically somebody is thinking that "I am God." They do not know what is God. It is most foolish proposal if somebody claims that he is God. He is dog. We very much hate this proposal, when a man claims that he is God. It is most blasphemous.

Interview -- March 9, 1968, San Francisco:
Prabhupāda: They like it. So many, hundreds of preparations... We can give at least three hundred preparation, many varieties, simply on grains and milk product and fruits. That's all. We don't kill animals, don't kill birds, no. But we make very nice preparations. Everyone likes. So this is one of the restriction, that you cannot take anything which is not offered to Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is the second restriction. And the third restriction is no intoxication—no smoking, no drinking, even no tea taking, no coffee taking, nothing: These American boys they are accustomed to all these habits very naturally, but they have given up. They don't take. In our temple there is no tea-taking, no coffee-taking, no cigarette smoking, nothing of the sort, you see. This is the third restriction. And the fourth restriction is that you cannot take part in gambling or some unnecessary sporting because you have to utilize your time. Your time is very short. If you miss this opportunity of human form of life... Because we do not know when death is coming. It is not that because I am old, I am nearing death, and you are young, you are not nearing death. Who knows that you may die before me? So there is no certainty. So the principle is that because this human form of life is so important to perfect oneself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he should not waste even a minute. You see? So therefore we don't allow unnecessary sporting. You see? This is simply waste of time. So no illicit sex life, no meat-eating or animal food, no intoxication, no gambling. So every student has to follow these four prin... Otherwise I don't initiate. I don't take cheap students, that "You can do whatever you like, and you pay me some money. I give you some mantra, and you become God." I don't say like that. I don't bluff like that. I have not come to earn money from your country, but I have come to your country to give you something sublime, not to take you, not to take from you, not to exploit you, but to give you something sublime. You see? So that is the third stage, initiation. And then, if you are situated in the third stage nicely—that means if you follow the regulative principles under my direction—then the fourth stage automatically comes. After this third stage, the fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, up to eighth, automatically comes. That is gradual development. So in the third stage, if you follow the regulative principle and chant with some prescribed number, numerical strength, then your all misgivings will be over automatically. What are these misgivings? The first misgiving is that I am this body. Everyone is under the concept of this body. This is... I am not this body. That is a fact. But body is changing. There are many examples. One of the example is a very common example. Suppose a man is dead. Now everybody is crying, and if we ask "Why you are crying?" "Oh, my son is dead." I can say, "Your son is lying here. Why you are saying that he is dead?" "No, no. He is dead. He is gone. His body is lying." Therefore he is different from the body. Immediately you can understand. You say, "No, he is gone. His body is lying." Don't you say at that time? So you understand at the time of death that the man was different from the body. But during this lifetime, I was taking care of his body only. Why did I take care of he? Because I did not know him. You see? This is a misgiving. In this way there are so many misgivings. We are situated in a platform of misgivings only, misunderstanding, our present conditional life. Just like if my body, this body, I am different from this body, then how can I claim that America is my country? This is also another misgiving. If I do not belong to this body... I call myself an American or Indian... (coughs) (aside:) Water. Because accidentally this body is born on the land of America, therefore I call myself American, but if I am not this body, then how I am American? This is another misgiving.
Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Journalist: He's from India. Parsee.

Prabhupāda: Parsee, yes.

Journalist: He does an article for us next month. But I spoke to Dan and I told him that one of the things I would like to ask you, and I think that an awful lot of our readers, and an awful lot of people in the United States are terribly confused with the many people who claim to be avatāras and who come from India to this country, one after the other, after the other, and they say...

Prabhupāda: I can declare, they are all nonsense.

Journalist: That's what... I wanted to... If you could elaborate on that a little more.

Prabhupāda: And I can say furthermore, they're all rascals.

Journalist: The Maharishi for example...

Prabhupāda: He was rascal number one. I say publicly.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Then what is this? Why do they not take consideration that "We are making so much improvement, what improvement we have done about these four things?" They have no. And still they're very much proud, advanced in education, science. But the four primary miserable conditions, they remain as they are. You see? There may be advancement in medical science, but there is no medicine which can claim "No more disease, come on." Is there any medicine? So what is that advancement? Rather, disease are increasing in different forms. They have invented nuclear weapon. What is that? To kill. But have you invented something so that no more men will die? That is credit. Man is dying every moment, so you have invented something to accelerate that death. That's all. Is that very, very good credit? So there is no solution of death. They are trying to stop the, I mean to say, overpopulation. But where is the solution? Every minute, there are three persons increasing. That is the statistics. So there is no solution for birth, there is no solution for death, there is no solution for disease and there is no solution for old age. There was a great scientist, Professor Einstein, he also died in old age.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 27, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: Forgot, you forgot. That is your nature. You forget so many things. You cannot remember what you were doing exactly at this time yesterday. Can you remember immediately? Forgetfulness is our nature. We are very minute; therefore our..., we are subjected to the quality of forgetfulness. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna was asking Kṛṣṇa that "How I can believe that you told this philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā to Vivasvān?" He said that "In... I, first of all, I told to Vivasvān." So in reply to that question, Kṛṣṇa said that "Both you and I had many, many births before, but you have forgotten; I remember." That is the difference between the Supreme Lord and ourself. He does not forget. He remembers everything, past, present, future, all, but we forget. That is the difference between God and living entity. We are subjected to forgetfulness. So we forget; again, if it is reminded, we remind. That is our nature. So at the present moment we are forgetful of our eternal relationship with Kṛṣṇa. And then, by good association, by constant chanting, hearing, remembering, we again revoke our old consciousness. That is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So forgetfulness is not wonderful. It is natural. We forget. But if we keep constant touch, we may not forget. Therefore this association of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, devotees, and constant repetition of the chanting, scripture, that will keep us intact without forgetting. Satataṁ kirtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). We have to continue this service constantly. Then we shall not forget. Forgetfulness is not wonderful. That is our nature. That is our nature. And that is the difference between ourself and God. God does not forget. We forget. We are claiming, some of us, foolishly claiming, that "I am God, but I forget." God does not forget. Therefore I am not God. Is that clear? That is the difference between living jīva and Śiva, God. He does not forget. In the Bhagavad-gītā He says, vedāhaṁ samatītāni: (BG 7.26) "I know everything of this present, past, future, everything." But we do not know. We have forgotten. In our daily life, in our childhood, so many things we did. We don't remember. But our parents may remember that as a child, that we did this. So forgetfulness is our nature. But if we keep constant touch with Kṛṣṇa, then He will give us remembrance. So sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo (BG 15.15). Kṛṣṇa says in the Fifteenth Chapter. Now you read Bhagavad-gītā very carefully. In our examination next January... Yes. From Bhagavad-gītā for title of bhakti-śāstrī. Now we have to make our organization regularly a spiritual institution so that we may be recognized, and our students may be freed from this draft board requisition. That I am... Next step is going on. (Break) Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. Puruṣottama? Why don't you get that tape? Yes.

Room Conversation -- April 27, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate na tasya samādhikaś ca dṛśyate. This is from Upaniṣad. Parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate svabhaviki-jnana-bala-kriya ca (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). It is said that nobody is seeing... This is called research. You are accepting any nonsense as God, and they do not have any information from the..., that God means na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate na tasya samādhikaś ca dṛśyate: "God has nothing to do, no responsibility. Nobody is found greater than Him." So if this Vedic injunction is followed, if somebody is claiming, "I am God," we have to see whether he has nothing to do and whether nobody is greater than him. And these two tests will make him false immediately. He has to prove that nobody is greater than... Even contemporary... Suppose I am claiming I am God. So I have to show that at the present moment, throughout the whole world, apart from universe, nobody is greater than me. Then I am... Will these pretenders be able to show that nobody is greater than him? This is a simple test. And na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate: "And he has nothing to do." There are so many things to test who is God. Ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇaḥ. Nobody shall be richer than him; nobody shall be stronger than him; nobody shall be wiser than him; nobody shall be beautiful than him. So these things have to be tested, whether he is God. And simply if I claim, "Oh, I am God," there will... No testament? If I say, "I am President Nixon," will you accept it? If you don't accept it, even an ordinary President Nixon, without testing his credentials, how you will accept a false man as God without testing? You must know what is that test. Credential. He must present credential. Just like when some ambassador comes to a foreign country, there is a ceremony that that ambassador must be recognized by the governor or the governor-general in that state, and he has to place his credentials, similarly, anybody is claiming as God, he has to place his credentials. And what is that credential? The test is there in the Upaniṣad, in the Bhagavad-gītā and so many, all literatures, Brahma-saṁhitā, Vedānta-sūtra, in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam first it is said, janmādy asya yataḥ, anvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ svarāṭ (SB 1.1.1). Svarāṭ, svarāṭ means fully independent. Satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi. The Supreme Truth, fully independent. We are not fully independent. And just now, if I feel a little toothache, I will have to go to a doctor. So how can I claim that I am God? God's first qualification is fully independent, svarāṭ. Abhijñaḥ. Abhijñaḥ means fully cognizant of everything. What is that?

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Hayagrīva: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then you will feel relieved. So therefore the real thing is that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. We are artificially enjoying the stolen property. Therefore if you go on enjoying like that, then this frustration will come. But before coming to that frustration, if we return this property to Kṛṣṇa, then we become happy. So best thing is to return everything to Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And you will not be a loser. You will be gainer, just like Bali Mahārāja. Actually, if you think, everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Nothing belongs to you. This is māyā. Kṛṣṇa's property you are thinking, "mine." Is this land of American belongs to you actually? It is stolen property. You have stolen from the Red Indians or from Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is, not you, everyone. Somebody is claiming, "This much my property," somebody is claiming, "This much my property," but this much or that much, everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. It is stolen property. There is another example in Indian words, that hira cauri kiya abhicaurya, khira caurī kiyā abhicaura. Hira means diamond, and khīra means... What is that called? Cucumber, a small? So if somebody has stolen a cucumber from other's tree, so he is captured. And another man has stolen some diamond. He is also arrested. So from the police, both are thieves. If the man says, "Oh, what I have stolen? I have stolen a little cucumber. It is nothing, worth not even two cent or one cent. Why you are arresting me? He is thief. He has stolen a big diamond," no, in the eyes of law, he is also thief; he is also thief. Everyone is thief. Anyone who is not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is thief. He'll not be happy. The best thing is to return whatever he has possessed: "Kṛṣṇa, it is Yours. Take." Finish business. Mānasa deha geha, yo kichu mora. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's song... Now, everything we possess in mind. Actually we don't possess.

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Everything for jīva souls, all relationship. Kṛṣṇa is one, the Supreme, and all the jīva souls are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore the eternal relationship is there. Now they are exhibited in these twelve kinds of humor, either directly or indirectly. Jīva soul, a part and parcel, cannot be separated from the Supreme. Sun and the light, electric bulb, and the diffusion of light, they cannot be separated. But this portion is covered. It appears darkness. So when it is covered, that is called māyā, and he thinks that "I have no relationship with God," or "I am God," "There is no God." This is māyā. He is covered. He cannot see. So he has to be treated by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness treatment, and the māyā will be separated, and he will see, "Ah, yes, I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa." Then he comes to the direct relationship. Anyone, so-called spiritualist or transcendentalist, if he is claiming that "There is no God," "I am God," "There is voidness," these are all disturbing positions, different symptoms of this disease of māyā. It is disease. How one can think of, that he is God? That means he does not know what is God. If I say here that "I am President Nixon," would you accept it? Would you accept? Any one of you, if I say that "I am President Nixon," will you accept? Why? Why? Why? Why you do not accept me? I say, "I am President Nixon." Why do you not accept? Why?

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Kīrtanānanda: You don't have the characteristics.

Prabhupāda: No. That means you are not rascal. You are sane, that you do not accept me as President... That is one thing. At least you are not insane. So if I say, "God," and you accept, then how much insane you are. Just try to understand. How much insanity is there, one who is claiming that "I am God" and one who is accepting that he is God. This is insanity.

Woman: Are we not all one?

Prabhupāda: One is... That is different thing. You are not one with President Nixon?

Woman: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Then are you President Nixon?

Woman: He's a human being. He's part of me.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. He is American. He is human being. In so many qualities you are one. But you cannot claim for that, you are President Nixon. You should understand in that way. In so many respect, qualities, you are one with God, but that does not mean you are God. God is one. That means you have no complete understanding. Just like in spite of your becoming American or human being, you deny to identify yourself with President Nixon because you have full knowledge of President Nixon and yourself. And as soon as you say, "I am God," that means you have no full knowledge of God. You are insane. You do not know what is God. That very thing immediately asserts that you are unknown factor about God. God is said, "Great," but you are claiming that greatness. That means you do not know how great He is. A tiny factor, you are claiming that "I am God," without having that greatness. That means insane, insanity. The same way: if you claim that "I am President Nixon," that is insanity. Similarly, God is, how great He is, how much greater than President Nixon. You deny to become one with President Nixon, and you accept to be one with God? How much insane you are. Just try to understand.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: Yuga.

Prabhupāda: But our process is that, you are searching after the center, here is the center. That is our proposal.

Allen Ginsberg: But what do you do when different religious groups claim to be the center? What do you do when different religious groups...

Prabhupāda: No, we welcome every religion. We don't decry any religion. Our point is the love of Godhead. Or Kṛṣṇa is love, all-attractive. So we want to be attracted by Kṛṣṇa. Just like a magnetic force and iron. Unless iron is rusty, it is automatically attracted by the magnetic force. Similarly, we are contaminated by material coverings. So we are trying to make it rustless so that immediately we shall be attracted. This is the program. Kṛṣṇa is all-attractive. That is a fact. And we are attracted. But being covered with this rust, we are, instead of being attracted by Kṛṣṇa, we are being attracted by māyā. This is our whole program. So our central program is how to love Kṛṣṇa, or how to love God. So we want to see... That is the Bhāgavata definition, that how much you have enhanced your love of God. You call Kṛṣṇa or something else, that doesn't matter. Phalena paricīyate. The result. Your religious principle, what is the result? Are you enhancing your love for God or dog? That we want to see. If you are enhancing your love for God, it is all right. We don't say anything. But if... People should learn how to love. That is the perfection of life. That we are teaching.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: Yes, except that he claims to be neither God nor not God.

Prabhupāda: Huh? But he never said that "I am God." He said there is no God.

Allen Ginsberg: No. He doesn't say there's no God either. He says...

Prabhupāda: That's it. That's anyway.

Allen Ginsberg: He says, all conceptions of the existence of the self, as well as all conceptions of the nonexistence of the self, as well as all conceptions of the existence of a supreme self, as well as all conceptions of the nonexistence of the supreme self are equally arbitrary, being only conceptions.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a jugglery of words. So his principle was that they did not believe in God. So still the Buddhists says, "You don't believe in God." So but they are worshiping God, Lord Buddha. There are so many temples. In the same way, as we worship. So this is transcendental cheating.

Allen Ginsberg: Transcendental cheating.

Prabhupāda: (chuckling) Just like sometimes father has to cheat his child. That is not cheating. That is welfare. But apparently it (looks) likes cheating. A child is insistent on some point. "Yes, yes. You are all right. But you do this like this. Yes, you are very good boy." Like that. But Vaiṣṇava, in Vaiṣṇava literature, in Vedic literature, he is God. The godless worshiping God in a different way. If there is nothing, why they should worship Buddha even?

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

George Harrison: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is a verse in Bhagavad-gītā,

yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas
itaras tad anuvartate
sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute
lokas tad anuvartate
(BG 3.21)

The idea is that anything which is, I mean to say, accepted by the leading persons, ordinary persons follow them. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas. Śreṣṭhas means leading persons. Ācarati, acts. Whatever leading persons act, people in general follow them. Sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute. If the leading person says, "It is nice. It is all right," the others also accept it. So by the grace of God, Kṛṣṇa, you are leaders. Thousands of young men follow you. They like you. So if you give them something actually nice, the face of the world will change. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, it is not a manufactured new thing. It is, from historical point of view, at least, it is five thousand years old. Because Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means Bhagavad-gītā as it is. And Bhagavad-gītā... Of course, it is supposed to be Indian religious book, but it is not like that. It is not Indian or Hinduism. It is for all the people of the world. Not only for the human being, but also other than human being, because in the Bhagavad-gītā there is a verse. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayo yāḥ (BG 14.4). In all species, all kinds of form... The living entities, they are in different forms. Just like we are sitting here, so many ladies, gentlemen, boys. We have got different forms. Similarly, you Europeans, you have got different color, or Indians, we have got different... So this whole world is full of varieties. So Kṛṣṇa says, "All the varieties of life, it doesn't matter. I am their father." Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). Pitā means father. So Kṛṣṇa claims all living entities as His sons. But we may say that "Kṛṣṇa is Indian," "Kṛṣṇa is Hindu," or "Kṛṣṇa something." But no. Kṛṣṇa is actually the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement was started by Kṛṣṇa Himself. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). In the Ninth Chapter, last verse, it is said, Kṛṣṇa says, that "You always think of Me." Man-manā bhava. Mana means mind. "Let your mind be always engaged in Me, Kṛṣṇa." Man-manā bhava. "Just you become mad-bhakta. Just become My devotee." Mad-yājī: "If you want to worship, just worship Me." Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: (BG 18.65) "If you want to offer obeisances, you just offer Me. And if you do like this, then without any doubt you'll come to Me." So this is very simple method. Always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. There is no loss, but the gain is very great. Suppose if I chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Materially I do not commit any offense or undergo any loss, but if there is any gain, why not try it? There is no expenditure. (laughs) Everything has got some expenditure. So this mantra, Kṛṣṇa or His later succession, do not sell or distribute. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, everyone. Dance in ecstasy. It is very nice thing. So I have come to your country, come to your place. It is very good. So my request is that you are intelligent boys. Try to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy with your all reason, arguments. It will not to be accepted blindly. Caitanya-caritāmṛta-kaj, the author of Caitanya-caritāmṛta, he says, caitanyera dayāra kathā karaha vicāra: "Just put into your judgement the mercy of Lord Caitanya." Vicāra karile citte paibe camatkāra: "And if you scrutinizingly judge over it, you'll find it is sublime." So we are putting this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement not as a force, but to the judgement of the people. Let them judge. It is not a sectarian movement. Not any religious movement. It is a science. So we put this philosophy to your judgement, and you judge it scrutinizingly with your all intellects, and you'll find it sublime. And if you find it sublime, then why not put it to the world? You are also anxious to bring some peace in the world. I have read sometimes your statements. You are anxious also. Everyone, every saintly person, should be anxious to bring in peace in the world. But we must know the process.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:
Prabhupāda: People can be peaceful by knowing three things. If he perfectly understands only three things, then he'll become peaceful. What is that? Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ. All the sacrifices, austerities, penances, whatever people are undertaking for perfection, the enjoyer of such activities, Kṛṣṇa says, "I am." "I am." Just like your activities. This is also a kind of austerities. Your artistic songs, they have become popular because you have undergone some austerities. You have come to the perfection. That requires penance and austerities. Or any scientific discovery, that requires austerities. So every nice thing presented in the world, that requires austerity. Very devout, painstaking. Then it becomes successful. That is called yajña. Tapasya. So Kṛṣṇa says, "The result of the tapasya enjoyer, I am." He is claiming. "The result of your tapasya should come to Me." Then you'll be satisfied. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). People are claiming, "This is my England," and "This is my India," "This is my Germany," "This is my China." No. Everything belongs to God, Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-loka. Not only on this planet. We have divided this planet in so many states. Actually this planet was not divided. From the history of Mahābhārata we understand. This planet, there was only one king, one emperor, in India, Hastinapur.
Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:
Prabhupāda: Gradually it has become small, small, small, small, small. Just like in our, very recently, twenty years ago, India became divided, Pakistan and Hindustan. Actually India was one, but we see now it is Pakistan. And some day another "stan" will be divided. So this is going on. So sarva-loka, in all planets, all the planets, actually that is God's place. Nobody's place. We come here empty-handed; we go empty-handed. How we can claim? Suppose you have given me this place to stay. I stay for one week, and if I claim, "Oh, this is my room," is that very nice thing? (laughs) There will be immediately some disagreement, trouble. But you have kindly spared this room. I am living here. I can comfortably live, enjoy. And when my necessity... When I go, there is no trouble. Similarly, we come here in the kingdom of God empty-handed; we go empty-handed. Why we trouble that "This is my property, this is my country, this is my world, this is my planet"? Why we claim like that? Is it not insanity? Wherefrom the claim comes? So Kṛṣṇa says that sarva-loka-maheśvaram: "I am the Supreme Lord of every place." And suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ (BG 5.29). And He is the real friend of every living entity. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). As a friend, He is sitting within your heart. He's so nice friend. In this material world we make friendship. It breaks. Or the friend lives somewhere, and I live somewhere. But He's so nice friend that He's living within, with me and within my heart. He is so nice friend. Sarva-bhūtānāṁ. He's not only selected friend. No. Even the most insignificant creature, he is living there. Paramātmā. So if these three things are understood clearly, then he becomes peaceful. This is the peace formula. So everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā and Vedic literature. Simply one has to learn. Just like in arithmetic. There is all mathematical calculation, addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, this or that, fraction. One has to learn.
Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:
Prabhupāda: "I am the origin. I am the source of everything. Everything emanates from Me. One who knows this science perfectly, he is budhā, he is intelligent, and he becomes engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." And the Vedānta-sūtra also, the first aphorism is athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now it is the time for inquiry about the Absolute, Brahman." So what is Brahman? The next aphorism is janmādy asya yataḥ: (SB 1.1.1) "Brahman, the Absolute, is that from whom everything is coming, emanating." That Absolute is personally saying, mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate: "Everything is emanating from Me." So if you study Vedic literature very scrutinizingly, then you come to this conclusion, that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness will include all other knowledge. Just like if you have got million dollar, ten dollar is included, five hundred dollar is included, thousand dollar is included. But one who has got ten dollar or five hundred dollar, he cannot claim that he has got million dollar. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa science means full spiritual knowledge. That is accepted by the ācāryas. And even you are speaking of Maharsi. He has written some book on Bhagavad-gītā?
Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to take translation.

George Harrison: So then there's all, a hundred translations.

John Lennon: And interpretations.

George Harrison: Which is again like all the roses and all the different flowers. It's a matter of taste as to which one. Because everybody claims their version is the best. All the versions I've read, they all say... And sometimes I get something from one which I don't get from something else.

Devotee: Did you ever read any without any commentary at all? Just straight?

George Harrison: Just straight translation?

Devotee: Without any commentary.

George Harrison: Just the Sanskrit, you mean?

Devotee: No. Just the translation.

George Harrison: Well, that's really what they are, you know. They all have a translation. Some of them have a commentary as well, on top of that. But just again the translations, you know, it depends on who's translating as to what the translation is.

Devotee: That's all right. So you have to go through an authority. Someone who's...

John Lennon: But how do you know one authority from the other?

George Harrison: The world is full of authorities, really, you know. (Prabhupāda chuckling)

Yoko Ono: There's five hundred authorities, you know, who...

John Lennon: I found that the best thing for myself is to take a little bit from here and a little bit from there and a little bit from there. (Prabhupāda chuckles)

Yoko Ono: I mean, we're not just saying that. We want to ask your advice on that. In other words, what is your answer to that. Your saying there's five hundred versions.

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā is seven hundred verses.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

John Lennon: Well, who says who's in the line of descent? You know, I mean, it's just like royalty. Who's who? (All talk at once)

Yoko Ono: That's what I was talking about.

John Lennon: I mean Yogananda claims...

George Harrison: His guru's, guru's, guru's...

John Lennon: All his guru's, guru's, guru's, gurus, like that. Maharsi claimed all his guru's guru's gurus went back. I mean, how are we to know? I mean, it's a matter of just deciding, you know.

Prabhupāda: But Maharsi does not say anything about Kṛṣṇa.

George Harrison: Doesn't he? No, his guru is the Śaṅkarācārya.

John Lennon: Which is Śaṅkara's teaching? But they all talk about God, and Kṛṣṇa's just a name for God, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: Anyway, whatever he may be, he does not go up to Kṛṣṇa. (chuckles)

George Harrison: Personality, anyway, of...

John Lennon: Well, that's what he used to say in exactly the same way, about anybody else.

Prabhupāda: No, no. He cannot be because he does not speak about anything Kṛṣṇa. A peon comes, he does not know anything about post office—what kind of peon he is?

Yoko Ono: No, but his post office... He was talking about his post office.

Prabhupāda: No, you cannot create post office. Post office one. Government post office.

Discussion with Guests -- December 23, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: Energy, being nondifferent from God, in one sense, it is God, but energy is not God at the same time. The same example. Just like sun and the sunshine. Sunshine is the energy of the sun, but sunshine, if it enters in your room, if you think that "Sun has entered into my room," that is wrong. But sunshine is not different from the sun. Similarly... That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagat avyakta-mūrtinā, mat-sthāni... (BG 9.4). (break) "Everything is resting in Me." That means in His energy. But not that everything is God.

Guest (3): It would appear that to claim that you can reach eternal bliss or I don't know what else you might call it, by just chanting, it seems to be too easy.

Prabhupāda: That is one process of self-realization. There are different process of self-realization. For this age, when people are less intelligent, this process is right.

Guest (2): ...what you are doing by chanting is kind of...

Prabhupāda: You chant and you will understand. If you have no child, then how can you understand what is the labor of producing a child?

Discussion with Guests -- December 23, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: What proof is that is illusion?

Guest (3): No, no. Wait. The burden of the proof lies on you because I don't claim it is cotton. You claim it is cotton. So...

Prabhupāda: How do you say it is not cotton. First of all prove it.

Guest (3): Initially...

Prabhupāda: No! First of all prove it that it is not cotton.

Guest (3): No, no. One moment. You claim that it is cotton, therefore the burden of the proof lies on you inasmuch as you have to prove...

Prabhupāda: Everyone will say it is cotton. Everyone will say it is cotton. That is proof. Everyone will accept this is cotton, made of cotton. Who will say this is not made of cotton? But if I give you a lump of cotton instead of shirt will you accept it?

Guest (3): I apologize. I don't mean to argue with you. I'm just trying to...

Prabhupāda: No, why not?

Guest (1): You speak of God and matter and as matter being the thing which keeps us from seeing God. It seems to me it's something like pride and delusions, myself, and something like this, and ideas that I have.

Prabhupāda: You may have ideas, but I don't agree with your idea. If... I say that anything take it material or spiritual they are different energy of God. Matter is not different from God as it is energy of God, but still matter is not God.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1970, Bombay:

Guest (9): I distributed what I got.

Prabhupāda: No, I shall arrange to distribute. I am getting fifty thousand Back to Godheads. Fifty thousand. I shall distribute.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...(Hindi) We haven't got to present Kṛṣṇa as Indian or Hindu. Kṛṣṇa is neither of them. Kṛṣṇa says, claims, that "Every living entity is My part and parcel. I am the seed-giving father." So therefore it has become successful. I never said that "You become a Hindu." "You accept Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and try to understand the philosophy." What business they have got to become Hindu? But they want to know what is God. Oh, that we have been confident.

Guest (9): They are accepting God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi) Even if they are puzzled. Although Kṛṣṇa appeared in India.

Guest (9): We don't think that He belongs to particular place or...

Prabhupāda: That's... They do not understand Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) Why step by step? If you have to accept Kṛṣṇa, why not immediately? That is intelligence.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:
Prabhupāda: One may believe in God, but one who does not believe in the Vedic literature, he is called nāstika. Veda na manīyā bauddha haila nāstika. Lord Buddha, although he is accepted as incarnation of God, but because he defied the Vedic principles it is said, nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātaṁ. Lord Buddha criticized the, I mean to say, sacrificial ceremonies because in the sacrificial ceremonies sometimes there is recommendation of killing an animal. But he was preaching nonviolence. So he criticized even the sacrifice in yajña. He criticized. Nindasi... But a Vaiṣṇava is praying, "My dear Lord, you are defying the Vedic principles." He knows why the Lord is now defying the Vedic principles; therefore he is devotee. In spite of Lord Buddha's defying the Vedic principles, a devotee is offering him obeisances. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. He knows the Lord, how He is playing, how He is bewildering the atheistic class of men. The atheistic class of men did not believe in God. Lord Buddha says, "Yes, you don't require to believe in God. There is no God. But you feel yourself that when you are attacked with violence you feel pain. Why should you offer to others?" Because his mission was to stop animal killing. Sadaya-hṛdaya-darṣita-paśu-ghātam. The Supreme Lord became too much compassionate when he saw that people are unnecessarily killing animals, as it is going on still. Instead of... At least those who are claiming Buddhist, they are killing animals. Bruce, is it not? Yes. But in the Buddhist religion there is no sanction for killing animals. Yes?
Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: The story is a mouse came to a saintly person: "Sir, I am in trouble. If you kindly release me?" "What is that trouble?" "A cat, they are after me. I am always at risk of life." "So what do you want?" "You also make me a cat." "All right. You become a cat." Then again he came. "Sir, again the complaint is here." "What is that?" "Dogs are chasing me." "Then what do you want?" "I want to become a dog." "All right. You become a dog." In this way he came up to the tiger by the benediction of the... And when he became a tiger, he was... (snarling sound-laughter) Just like our Brahmānanda Prabhu. "All right. Again become mouse." You see? So these civilization is like that. They became tiger, and they are so much badly trained up that they have to become again a mouse. That is the way. That is the way of nature. If you don't improve yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you again become stool worms. The human form of life is an opportunity to come out of the cycle of birth and death, but if one does not take—these are the statements in Padma Purāṇa—then he loses the chance. They do not know what is life, how life is rotating, talking nonsense, "I am God. Why Kṛṣṇa should be God? This is written by man." How much low-graded people have become. They are completely under the laws of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14), stringent laws of nature, and still, they are claiming, "I am God. I am this. I am that. I am free. I am..." And they do not mind, even they are degraded to the position of the worm of stool. But there is possibility. What is this worm of stool? It is also living entity. It is not a different thing. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). One who knows, he knows that the worm of stool and Brahmā are the same living entity. Simply under different reaction of karma one has become Brahmā and another has become the stool worm. Now we begin. (break) It is not difficult. Simply the layout should be sent to different parts, and they will make immediately plate, and that will be paper. Daily you have to send it.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: It is illusion, simply illusion. If I am God, how I have become so much dependent on the laws of material nature? Why I have accepted this body which I do not want? What kind of God I am? So the whole world is full of these ideas. So this movement is a revolutionary movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Guest (5): (Hindi) What is the meaning of God.

Prabhupāda: He does not... He does not know what is meaning of God. He thinks that God is something plaything. Therefore he claimed that "I am God." He does not know what is God. Therefore God personally showing—He's coming, Kṛṣṇa: "What is God, see." God is from very beginning God. Kṛṣṇa, from the birth He is God. He hasn't got to meditate. He hasn't got to go to the forest and..., to become God. He is God.

Guest (5): God is made for, sir.

Prabhupāda: Not "God is made." God is never made. God is God.

Guest (5): But, sir, G means (Hindi?)

Prabhupāda: That is your speculation. G means this, O means this, this means this. That you can interpret in so many ways but God is God. God is great. Brahman. Brahman means great, Para-brahman, the greatest. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). That is Kṛṣṇa. Is it not stated in the Bhagavad-gītā?

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: Not complicated.

Prof. Kotovsky: ...conditionally(?) to group them in four classes because...

Prabhupāda: The, the confusion, confusion has come into existence because in India in later days the son of a brāhmaṇa, without having the brahminical qualification, claimed to be brāhmaṇa, and others, out of superstition or traditional way, they were accepted as brāhmaṇa. Therefore the Indian social order has disrupted. But our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are picking up from everywhere brāhmaṇas, everywhere, because the world needs the brain of a brāhmaṇa. Just like here, Mahārāja Parīkṣit, although he was a monarch, he had a body of learned sages and brāhmaṇas to consult, advisory body. It is not that the monarchs were independent. In the history it is found that some of the monarchs were not in order. They were dethroned by the brahminical advisory committee. Although the brāhmaṇas, they did not take part in politics, but they would give advice to the monarch how to, I mean to say, execute the royal function. Just like not, not very old, very, say, about... What is the age of, I mean to say, Asoka? Say about thousands of years ago.

Television Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Prabhupāda: Any religion. Because God is one. It is the science of God. The "two plus two equal to four," it is understood by everyone. It is not that it is to be understood by the Christian, not by the Hindus. "Two plus two equal to four" is a fact for everyone. Similarly God is fact for everyone. Now how to love God. This is the only process. That is.

Interviewer: Now do you claim then that your way of loving God is the way to love God?

Prabhupāda: Yes. At least for this age.

Interviewer: For this age?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interviewer: You meant for Kali-yuga? For the time that we live in right now?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because the method is authorized. Kṛṣṇa prescribes this. Kṛṣṇa Himself as Lord Caitanya, He says that this is the only method for self-realization or for God realization or to learn how to love God. He says. Kṛṣṇa says. Therefore it is authorized. And it is practically happening. Otherwise, these boys and girls, they are foreigners. They never knew Kṛṣṇa. Now I have got sixty centers and each center, they are on the average hundred devotees and they have dedicated their life. How it is happening unless it is authorized?

Room Conversation -- July 20, 1971, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Pratyatoṣa. Do you know what is the pratyatoṣa? Prati, pratyatoṣa.

Pratyatoṣa: What is the translation, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: He can satisfy everyone.

Pratyatoṣa: Haribol.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Only Kṛṣṇa consciousness person satisfies everyone, can claim this (indistinct).

Pratyatoṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes?

Pratyatoṣa: I'd like to give you this.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Get that.

Pratyatoṣa: This here. It's my savings account, and there's a deposit slip in there, eleven hundred and thirty-three dollars and thirty-four cents, and I would like to present it as a gift.

Śyāmasundara: Ātreya Ṛṣi can take care of all this.

Prabhupāda: What is this?

Pratyatoṣa: It's a withdrawal slip. That's just... That's Ātreya Ṛṣi..., and Ātreya Ṛṣi can take care of the details of getting the money out of the account to do whatever you want with it.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) the amount, you can charge my account (indistinct).

Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Prabhupāda: Because God is one. It is a science of God. If two plus two equal to four, it is understood by everyone. It is not that it is to be understood by the Christian, not by the Hindus. Two plus two equal to four is a fact for everyone. Similarly, God is a fact for everyone. Now, how to love God, this is the only process. That is.

Interviewer: Now, do you claim, then, that your way of loving God is the way to love God?

Prabhupāda: Yes. At least for this age.

Interviewer: For this age?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interviewer: You mean for Kali-yuga?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interviewer: For the time that we live in right now?

Prabhupāda: Because the method is authorized, Kṛṣṇa prescribes this. Kṛṣṇa Himself and Lord Caitanya. He says that this is the only method for self-realization, or for God-realization, or to learn how to love God. He says. Kṛṣṇa says. Therefore it is authorized. And it is practically happening. Otherwise, these boys and girls, they're foreigners, they never knew Kṛṣṇa. Now, I have got sixty centers, and in each center there are, on the average, hundred devotees. And they have dedicated their life. How it is happening, unless it is authorized?

Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:

Journalist (1): How do you stop that?

Prabhupāda: Well, become religious. If you are really Christian, that is all right. But you are not Christian because you are violating the orders of Lord Jesus Christ. Lord Jesus Christ sacrificed his life and he says that he atoned for your sins, but you are not stopping your sinful life, and still you are claiming to be Christian. The fun is going on. Actually there is no Christian. Otherwise Christian religion is very nice religion. Yes.

Journalist (1): Do you think that you can help large numbers of people in this country understand that...

Prabhupāda: I can help everyone provided he takes my help. If you refuse my help, how can I help you?

Journalist (1): No, I'm merely suggesting that you would...

Prabhupāda: Yes, What is our...? I am helping. I am asking people to become God conscious. But if you refuse to become God conscious how can I help you?

Journalist (1): But to become God conscious do you think they have to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: No, you become devotee of God. If you don't accept Kṛṣṇa, then... You have got some idea of God? Or not?

Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:

Journalist (1): Enjoyer.

Prabhupāda: And God is the supreme friend. Now if you analyze... Now you cannot say that you are the proprietor of this land. Somebody else is. Just like the land was there before your birth, and the land will remain there after your death, so during your span of life you are simply claiming. "This is mine." But before you birth, after your death, it belongs to somebody else, the supreme proprietor. And because He is the supreme proprietor He is the supreme enjoyer. And He is the supreme friend in this way, that He is giving all necessities of life to everyone. Nobody can be better friend than God.

Journalist (1): Thank you very much.

Prabhupāda: So these three things, if you try to understand that God is the proprietor, God is the supreme friend and God is the supreme enjoyer, then all problems solved.

Journalist (1): Thank you.

Journalist (2): May I come in another queue for BBC Radio 4, just to tell me in fact what is the purpose of your visit to London?

Prabhupāda: To teach you these things, as we were just talking with your friend, that God is proprietor, God is friend of everyone and God is the supreme enjoyer.

Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: We are simply presenting the fact that everything belongs to God. God is the supreme friend and God is the maintainer of everyone, everything, and He is the supreme enjoyer. These three things, if we understand, then the whole problem is solved. Now, I say that God is the proprietor. Now you refute. Those who will not accept, that "God is not proprietor, I am proprietor," this requires discussion. How you become proprietor? Bhagavad-gītā says, God says, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). I am not manufacturing this. It is stated in the śāstra. God is the supreme enjoyer. He is the proprietor. He should be enjoyer. Just like here, if I am the proprietor of a factory, so the profit should come to me, similarly, if God is the proprietor of everything then we cannot enjoy anything without the sanction of God. We therefore eat prasādam. We know that the fruit, flowers, or grains, or milk, whatever we are offering to Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa has given us. You cannot manufacture these things, nice oranges, in factory. You cannot manufacture rice or wheat. Actually, God has given. That is God consciousness. Anything, even those who are eating animals, they cannot manufacture animals in the factory. That is also God's creation. So in the Vedas it is said, eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān, "That one supreme living being is supplying food or necessities of life to all living entities." That's a fact. He is the maintainer. He is the giver of food. We are simply handling. That's all. Everything. Even this house or your car, everything. The material ingredients are supplied by God. The intelligence is also given by God. So by God-given intelligence, by God-given ingredients, you are preparing something, and you are claiming that "It is mine." Why? Suppose if I give somebody intelligence, "You make this table like this," I give ingredients, I give him money, then after the table is manufactured, if the carpenter says, "It is mine," is that proper ? I have given you money, I have given you the wood, I have given you the intelligence, I have maintained you. How it belongs to you? So this is going on. Everything God's, and we are claiming "Mine." Ahaṁ mameti, janasya moho 'yam (SB 5.5.8). This is called illusion. I am not the proprietor, but I am thinking I am... This is called illusion. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to remove this illusion, to accept the real fact. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is nothing that is (indistinct) manufactured artificially. To come to your real position. Just like a madman has got in some consciousness. He's thinking so many crazy ways. That sort of consciousness will not help us. If we actually come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is our perfection. (break) God is the proprietor, God is the enjoyer, and God is the maintainer. Three things. So our, this movement is nothing new. It is oldest and authorized. So now if we can push on this movement, that is the greatest welfare activity in the human... (end)

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Devotee (5): There are some Christians who are actually sincere and they feel as though they are doing the proper thing, but they are just misled by the fact that there is no paramparā system coming from Lord Jesus. The churches are teaching the wrong thing, but they are sincere. (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa will direct them (indistinct) the proper authority?

Prabhupāda: Yes. If they are actually following strictly the principles of Jesus Christ, then sometimes when he meets some pure devotee, he will accept. The groundwork will be nice for accepting farther advancement. Just like Jesus Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." So if anyone follows this principle, "No, I shall not kill," then he becomes purified. But who is that Christian who is not killing? So where is follow? Amongst the Christians the more killing process is going on very strongly. So who is a Christian? In that, if you disobey the first principle of Christianity, then where is your Christianity? Why you falsely claim that you are a Christian? "Thou shalt not covet." What is that next?

Devotee: "Thou shalt not kill."

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Not... So many things. So, if you do not follow the principles of Christianity, simply by stamping yourself as Christian, will that do? So why Jesus Christ will be responsible for you? Simply by stamping yourself that "I am Christian." Is that very reasonable proposal?

Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Lord Jesus himself never claimed that he would be responsible. As a matter of fact, he would heal certain persons who by their karma were blind, or lame deaf, or some disease, even dead, he would bring them back to life, so many things. And then when he healed them, he invariably said after, he said, "Now go thou and sin no more lest the worst thing befall you." And he has been saved by Jesus personally, yet Jesus is saying, "lest the worst thing befall you." How can the worst thing befall you if everything he does then is all right? So that means Jesus does not take that responsibility.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why he should be responsible? If you are not a Christian, why he should be responsible? Now, here he says that "Now you have sinned, full reaction I have washed, don't do it again."

Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Yeah.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: But they are going to church, confessing every week, and doing the same thing. Who is a Christian, first of all find out, then Jesus Christ will take responsibility.

Devotee: They are gambling and eating flesh right in the churches, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, I mean to say, if you don't follow the Christian principles, how you can claim yourself to become a Christian and how you can ask Jesus Christ to take responsibility for you? These are misleading, therefore people are coming disgusted. Otherwise Christian religion is all right. It teaches love of Godhead, teaches to become moral, it teaches to love people, that's nice. These are good principles.

Viṣala: So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Bible it says, "Thou shalt not kill", and the Christians say, "Yes, thou shalt not kill but you can kill animals." (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. Where it is written that thou shalt not kill animals? "Thou shalt not kill." "Thou shalt not kill," means you shall not kill anything.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is stated by Kuntī.

Bob: Without perfect knowledge, can I not teach some things? For example, I may...

Prabhupāda: You can teach up to that, which point you know.

Bob: But should not claim to teach more than I know.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is cheating.

Yaśodānandana: In other words, you can't teach the truth...

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Yaśodānandana: ...you can't teach the truth with partial knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is not possible by any human being. Because any human being, his senses are imperfect. So how he can teach perfect knowledge? Just like you see the sun like a disc. You have no means to approach the sun. If you say, "We can see the sun by telescope and this and that," that is also made by you. And you are imperfect, your instrument is imperfect. Because that telescope you can say that you are seeing, but that machine is made by you, and you are imperfect. How your machine can be perfect? Therefore your knowledge of the sun is imperfect. So you don't teach about sun unless you have got perfect. That is cheating.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Similarly, the central stomach of the whole creation is God, or Kṛṣṇa. He's the enjoyer and He's the friend. He's maintaining everyone. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Therefore He's friend of everyone. And everywhere... He is maintaining means everywhere He's the proprietor. Just like a king can maintain the whole country, citizens, because he's the proprietor. Without being proprietor, how he can become everyone's friend? So these things have to be understood, that Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer, Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor, and Kṛṣṇa is friend. If you know these three things, then your knowledge is full. You do not require to understand anything more. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3). If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa by these three formulas, then your knowledge is complete. You don't require any more knowledge. But people will not agree. "Why Kṛṣṇa shall be proprietor? Hitler shall be proprietor. Yayha Khan should be proprietor. (laughter) Nixon shall be proprietor." That is going on. Therefore you are in trouble. But if you understand these three things only, then your knowledge is finished. But he'll not accept, he'll put forward so many impediments for understanding these three things. And that is the cause of our trouble. But Bhagavad-gītā, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is plainly said,

bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ
sarva-loka-maheśvaram
suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ
jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati
(BG 5.29)

But we won't take this. We shall put forward so many false proprietor, false friends, false enjoyer, and they will fight one another. This is the situation of the world. If this education is given and people takes this knowledge, there is peace, śāntim ṛcchati. Immediately there is peace. This is knowledge. And if anyone follows this principle, he's honest. He does not claim "It is mine."

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Change, I say. How the changes take place? You are changing. You are changing from your childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood. So there is a plan. Unless there is plan, why one child is not, by chance, becomes immediately old. What the nonsense will reply? Let the rascal reply this, that here is a chance, that one child immediately becomes old man, by chance. Why there is process? This is plan. So you should have depth of knowledge, otherwise you will be carried away by these rascals. We cannot be carried away by these rascals. We never so easily believed that they are going to the moon planet. You see? We have to scrutinize everything. Yes. That is brahminical qualification. A brāhmaṇa will not accept anything simply because it is said by some rascal. A śūdra will accept because he has no intelligence. That is the difference between brāhmaṇa and śūdra. It is not a caste system. It is classi..., guṇa karma vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), division of high qualities and actual activities according to that quality. They misinterpreted. Because by the influence of Kali-yuga everyone is śūdra, so he does not know what is the actually brahminical qualification. Therefore there is, I mean to say, competition: "Why this man should be done?(known?) I am as good as he is, and why he should be called brāhmaṇa? He should be given greater facility?" So actually it has happened so. A so-called brāhmaṇa, caste brāhmaṇa, he is working his intelligence like śūdra, and he is claiming, by birthright, brāhmaṇa. There must be protest. This has happened. Otherwise, that division is perfect, guṇa karma vibhāgaśaḥ. Anyone who comes to that quality, he becomes brāhmaṇa. That is the injunction of the śāstra. Kṛṣṇa says guṇa karma vibhāgaśaḥ. You have no qualification, you do not work according to your quality, and why you are claiming a brāhmaṇa? That is self-evident. Guṇa karma vibhāga. He never said by birth, never said. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. "In this age, Kali-yuga, all śūdras." Therefore they accept everything cheaply and at once, the śūdras.

Room Conversation -- April 18, 1972, Hong Kong:

Guest (1): In the minds of some people the sudden attraction of Western youth to Eastern religions...

Prabhupāda: No. It is not Eastern. That is a wrong conception. God is for everybody. Eastern people, when I speak of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they say, "What is this Kṛṣṇa? We know Kṛṣṇa. What we have to learn from Swamiji?" "Familiarity breeds contempt." But in the Western countries when we speak of Kṛṣṇa, they see the philosophy. They see the science and become attracted. We, in the very beginning, we neglect: "Oh, what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" Otherwise there is no question of Western or Eastern. Kṛṣṇa is for everyone. Kṛṣṇa is neither Western, neither Eastern. But Eastern, our, especially Indians, they have learned to reject. That is their education: immediately reject it. This is their new culture, to reject everything. At least Jawaharlal Nehru began like that, "Anything Indian is bad. Everything London-made is good." That was his philosophy. And if one European would go to see him, immediately admission. And if an Indian goes to see him, three days he has to wait. So Jawaharlal made this impression, that "Everything Indian is bad, and anything made in London..." Because he was made in London. He was educated in London. So everything nice. Although in my household life I was doing some business in connection. I had to see Jawaharlal Nehru. So when he was common man, I went to his house. I saw it is completely Europeanized, although he is in khādi. So his father, he hated Indian medicine. You see? Motilal Nehru. A doctor, his family physician, he told me. I was doing medicine business. So I introduced one preparation, pulti(?). That was in a clay pot, anti-floristan(?) So doctor said personally, "If I prescribe your pul, jagal-pulti(?), that Motilal Nehru says, 'Doctor, in case of medicine, please do not prescribe Indian.' " You see? So this is our mentality. We have got all foreign mentality, but still, we are claiming that we have become independent. Not indepen... We are culturally conquered by the materialistic advancement of foreign countries. We have lost our own culture. This is our position.

Morning Walk -- June 30, 1972, San Diego:

Devotee (1): Cut him down.

Prabhupāda: That's right. This is material. Matsaratā. This is explained in Bhāgavata as matsaratā. Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vāstavaḥ vastu vedyam atra (SB 1.1.2).

Devotee (1): Last night you said that that man's claim was like a poor man saying, "Yes, I'll become a millionaire."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (1): "Someday I'll become a millionaire."

Prabhupāda: And he wants the respect of a millionaire immediately, with future tense. Just see. "You give me the respect of a millionaire. I shall become in future a millionaire." What is this nonsense? First of all you become millionaire, then ask the respect. They want the credit beforehand. Trust no future, however pleasant. Why shall I believe you?

Devotee (1): There's a lake over there. There's a pond, we can walk down there.

Prabhupāda: Oh, bridge we are not going to cross? All right.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Bob Cohen: Prabhupāda, people that engage in religions, like these Jesus freaks and other people, they claim that Jesus is guiding them. Can this be so?

Prabhupāda: Yes. But they're not taking the guidance. Just like the Christians. Jesus guiding him, "Thou shalt not kill," but they're killing. Where is the Jesus guidance? Simply by saying, "I am guided by Jesus Christ," will do? "But I don't care for his words." Is that guidance? So nobody is being guided by Jesus Christ. They're falsely claiming. It is very hard to find out a man who is actually being guided by Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ's guidance is open there, but nobody is caring for him. They have taken Jesus Christ as contractor to take up their sins. That is their philosophy. They commit all kinds of sins, and poor Jesus Christ will be responsible. That is their religion. Therefore they say, "We have got very good religion. For all our sinful activities, Jesus Christ will die." Very good religion. They have no sympathy for Jesus Christ. "Once he has died for our sins, why should we commit again sins? Such a great life has been sacrificed for our sins." That is guided by Jesus Christ. But if you take it otherwise—"We shall go on committing all sins, and Jesus Christ has made contract that he'll nullify all my sins. Simply I go to the church and confess, and come back and again do all nonsense"—do you think it is very goodly intelligence?

Bob Cohen: No.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: But to read the Bible, but violate the Bible injunction, injunction. How they can kill if they are following the Bible?

Bob Cohen: I asked one. They said..., he said he claimed that Jesus was also eating meat in the Bible. But I don't know.

Prabhupāda: But that's all right. He, he may eat anything. He's powerful. But he has ordered, "Thou shalt not kill." You must stop killing. He is powerful. He can eat the whole world. You cannot compare with Jesus Christ. You cannot imitate Jesus Christ. You shall have to abide by his order. That is your position. Then you are guided by Jesus Christ. That is actually obedience. You cannot imitate. That is explained in Bhāgavata, that those who are īśvara, those who are empowered, they will do anything, but we cannot imitate. We have to abide by his order. "What he says to me, that I will do." You cannot imitate. If you say that "Jesus Christ ate meat," admitting that, in what condition he ate meat, if you do not know, then Jesus Christ is contradicting his statement. He's eating himself meat, and he's advising others not to kill. Do you think Jesus Christ is contradicting?

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Kīrtanānanda: Probably five thousand. (indistinct) five hundred.

Prabhupāda: Huh? They're drinking, they're eating meat, they're gambling and they are having illicit sex, and they are preaching. And we say, "First of all stop these things, then claim yourself to be religious, or God conscious." You cannot indulge in all these things. (aside:) Oh, you have kept my one cloth outside?

Devotee: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's outside.

Prabhupāda: Because I may require in the.... So, we don't want to enter into arguments, but we must know, but if somebody comes to argument, we have to say. What can be done? We say that "You follow Christianity in perfect order, you'll be benefited." That we say. Our test is whether you're advancing in God consciousness. That is our test. You follow Christianity or Muhammadanism, anything you follow, we don't mind. Whether you are developing your God consciousness, love for God, that is our test. But if your process has failed, then you can try this. And you'll see, in our process within so short time, how they are becoming God conscious. You have to admit. And they admit also.

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: Anything which can be engaged in the service of the Lord should not be given up. This is our philosophy. Should not be given up. We do not say, "Oh, money is material. I do not touch. My hand becomes turned up." No. We don't say all these nonsense philosophy. (laughs) We know that money, lakṣmī, is Kṛṣṇa's property, so it should be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. Why money should not be touched? Money is Kṛṣṇa's. It must be touched and used for Kṛṣṇa. We don't try to (indistinct) that pseudo renouncement. What I have got that I shall renouncement? Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Our renouncement means we renounce our personal sense gratification, that's all. That is renouncement. Materialism means personal sense gratification, and spiritual life means no personal sense gratification, all Kṛṣṇa's sense gratification. That's all. The same teaching by Bhagavad-gītā. Arjuna was thinking in terms of personal sense gratification: "I shall not fight. It is not good to kill my kinsmen, my brother." That was personal sense gratification. From ordinary point of view people will say, "How Kṛṣṇa is..., Arjuna is nice, that he's giving up his claim, and nonviolent." But this philosophy Kṛṣṇa immediately kicked out. Kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam. "Oh, why you are talking nonsense like this?" That was His answer. (laughs) Next He says, aśocyān anvaśocas tvam prajñā-vādāṁś ca (BG 2.11), "You are talking just like a very learned man, but this kind of lamentation is not done by any learned. That means you are fool number one." (laughter)

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Devotee: Yeah. We're not wandering from village to village anymore. We're settled.

Prabhupāda: No. Even we wander from village to village, people are being impressed that we are doing something good. Actually it is so. I tell you it is so. One who cannot understand it, he is a fool. Actually we are doing the best work, God consciousness. And actually it is a fact: simply for want of God consciousness they are suffering, that's all. There is no other reason. The only reason is this. Just like this morning I said, "God is the proprietor. Why you are claiming proprietor? You may be manager, not proprietor." Actually that is our position. Just like I am head of this institution, but I am not dealing as proprietor. I am dealing as manager, head. Is it not?

Devotee: This is the only society where Kṛṣṇa is the owner of everything.

Prabhupāda: And all my assistants, they are also working in that capacity. If I would have been proprietor, then they would not have been interested.

Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (Sanskrit) Even in ordinary dealings, people will cheat you. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. (Sanskrit) Everyone is cheating. Even in ordinary talking, they will tell so many lies. (break) They live nicely in fresh air, in open air, trees, and talking about their business and they are happy. They have no problems for eating, sleeping, mating, nothing. Everything is there. And we are claiming civilized. We are dealing with science to improve conditions, the rascals they are becoming more and more degraded. They have no science, they have no laboratory, they have no university. How they are living peacefully? So it is... If this life is better or this life of cheating and imperfectness, full of anxieties, this life is better. Which life is better?

Jayatīrtha: The animals, they are living by the arrangement of nature, they live according to their nature. Whereas the human beings...

Prabhupāda: They have no anxiety.

Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha: Dāsya realization is (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Dāsya-rasa. (indistinct) (break) ...practical devotee, he cannot become (indistinct).

Jayatīrtha: (indistinct) what you were speaking about yesterday, that if someone claims to be a teacher but he doesn't actually have real knowledge, then he's simply cheating.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: There's nothing practical that they say.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Rāmeśvara: They say nothing practical.

Prabhupāda: That means they do not follow any practical. That is their rascaldom. Nothing practical means they do not know what is the practical realization of God. That is their ignorance. And still they are claiming to be teachers. That is cheating. Just like these so-called scientists, they are theorizing, but they cannot practically prove. Therefore, their knowledge is imperfect. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). Jñānavān, the wise, after many, many births' cultivation of knowledge, when he surrenders, that is practical. Simply knowledge is useless, theoretical. When he practically surrenders, that is end of knowledge. That is perfection.

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: This is the right... Another definition is God, God is all-attractive. Now, if you try to understand what is this attractiveness, just like your American country is very opulent, very attractive. If a man is very rich in the society, he is attractive. Then if a man is very strong, then he is attractive. If a man is very famous, he is attractive. If a man-man or woman—if a man is very beautiful, he is attractive. If a man is in the renounced order, he is attractive. If a man is very wise, he is attractive. These six features are attractive features. Now, these attractive features, every one of us have to some extent. Just like you are ambassador, representative of USA, so you are attractive. So this attractiveness you have got. Sometimes I have also got. Somebody comes to me, "Let me see this Swami speak," you see. So this attractiveness everyone possesses. But God means who has got all the attractiveness in full. That is God. You may be very rich, but you cannot say that "I am the richest person in the world." That is not possible. But God can say "I am the richest person in the whole creation." Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He says, "I am the proprietor of everything." Just like in America, before the Europeans migrated to America, the land was there. It belonged to somebody. Now you are claiming you are proprietor. Say after five hundred years or something somebody may come. The land is there, we come here for the time being and claim "It is my property." But actually who is the proprietor? Actually God is the proprietor. Therefore anything produced out of the land, that is also property of God. Just like if you have got a gold mine in your country. So I am not.... India will not go to claim that "It is my property." It is your property, because it is produced with your land. So if the whole land, whole sky, whole air, whole light, everything belongs to God, then where is your proprietorship? It is stated, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ buddhiḥ mano eva (BG 7.4). Now, nobody can say "The sky is my property," but there must be some proprietor of the sky.

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Fire, mind, intelligence, ego. These eight elements. Kṛṣṇa says that "They are my energies." The things which are made by Kṛṣṇa's energy, how you can claim your property? Suppose a carpenter comes, you give him money to prepare some chair. The money is your energy. Now when the chair is prepared, he cannot claim that "I have prepared this chair. It is my property." No. It has been made with my energy; therefore it is my property. So if you make analysis of this whole cosmic situation you will find that everything is made out of the energy of God. Then how you can claim that "I am proprietor"? This is false. This is called māyā. Just like we have seen in Calcutta when there was a (indistinct) during the transition state. Britishers are going on. There was a great Hindu-Muslim riot. Now they fought, Hindus and Muslims, and they died. After death, they're lying piles of dead body. No more Hindu and Muslim. It is simply lump of matter. But because they got a type of body, a type of mental situation, consciousness, they fought with one another, and then after death, no more claiming "Hindu" and "Muslim." This is called illusion. "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this," "I am that"—these are all designation. Really what I am? I am pure soul, part and parcel of God. That is my identity. So people should be taught this science. As soon as one understands his constitutional position, his actual situation, then he says, "Oh, I am not this. I was struggling so hard under some misidentification."

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Religious idea without philosophy is sentiment, and philosophy without religion is mental speculation. They should be combined. Religious idea supported by philosophy. Then it is correct. And philosophy without religious idea is simply mental speculation. They should be combined. That combination of religious idea and philosophy, you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā, provided you accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is. If you interpret Bhagavad-gītā in your own way, then you'll miss the point. Just like in our country, in India, Bhagavad-gītā has been interpreted in so different ways that people are now bewildered. They do not know what is actually Bhagavad-gītā. Take, for example... Just like in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, dharmakṣetre kurukṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). I think you know Sanskrit. Samavetā yuyutsavaḥ māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva kim akurvata sañjaya (BG 1.1). Even a great leader, political leader, he has interpreted kurukṣetra as this body. So where is the dictionary where kurukṣetra means this body? But because he's a big political leader that gītā is going on. Kurukṣetra means this body. Pāṇḍava means the five senses. In this way (break) ...they cannot (indistinct) I may tell you frankly. Just like Mahatma Gandhi, he wanted to prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the battlefield, and how he can prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā? Then he has to drag some interpretation out of his own way. But because he's a big leader the people are misled. Similarly, all... at present moment in India the Bhagavad-gītā has becoming a plaything that anyone can interpret in his own way and do all nonsense. But I'll request you, because you are so much interested, and you have already approved Bhagavad-gītā, you have translated. Amongst the leading personalities, you try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is and spread it, it will have immediate effect. That is already experimented. Just like in western countries, before me, hundreds and thousands, swamis and yogis went there. But not a single person could understand what is Bhagavad-gītā, and what is Kṛṣṇa. Now hundreds and thousands of these boys in Europe, America, Canada, Africa, everywhere, Australia, everywhere, they are now become devotees... So they're intelligent persons, they're coming from rich family. Why they have taken seriously? Because they have understood Bhagavad-gītā nicely. So I request that God is neither Indonesian, neither Indian, neither African, God is God. And He claims that all living entities, in any form... The form is superficial. The form is taken as dress. Just like you are dressed in a different way, I am dressed in a different way. But we are not talking to the dress, we are talking to the man who is putting on the dress.

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Guest (2): (indistinct) to understand religion is (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. They must be the same. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣad bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Religion means the course, or the laws given by God. Just like law means the law given by the state. I cannot manufacture law. The citizen cannot manufacture law. The law is manufactured by the legislative assembly of the government. Similarly, religion means the order given by God. Now we have to understand who is God, and what is His order, and how it is applicable to everyone. That is the system of religion. We cannot whimsically give some rituals as religion. The principle of religion is to obey the orders of God. Therefore the first principle is to know who is God. Unless I know what is God, then how I can know what is His order? So in the Bhagavad-gītā, the religion is given that—(Aside:) you are feeling sleepy, you can go—the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That is religion. We have manufactured so many types of religion, and here God says that "You give up your manufactured religion. You just surrender unto Me." This is religion. Religion means to surrender. A good citizen means to surrender to the government law. Similarly, a religious person means who has surrendered to God. Nowadays it has become a regrettable fashion that everyone is God, when we surrender to one. And this false prestige that "I am God. I haven't got to surrender to anyone. I am God. What surrender?" This atheism is going on and spoiling the whole human society. God has become so cheap. Any nonsense can claim, "I am God." That is the defect of the modern society. There is a great necessity to understand God. If everyone is God then where is the necessity of religion? If everyone is president then where is the necessity of lawmaking? So this is going on. This is very unfortunate situation. What is your idea?

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Guest (2): God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So our business is, we should offer this banana to God. "So it is Your creation, it is Your thing. First of all You taste it, then we take it." Then you become in peace. And if you falsely think that "I have created this banana tree. I have worked so hard. Now the fruit is there. Now I am the enjoyer." Then you are mistaken. Then next statement is, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka maheś... (BG 5.29), "I am the proprietor of everything in the world." Now, beginning of this world, Bhūmi, land, this land, they're claiming this land Indonesian, this land American, this land Indian. But has the Indonesians or the Africans or the Indians created this land? Who has created this land?

Guest (2): God.

Prabhupāda: Then He must be proprietor. But we are falsely claiming that, "I am the proprietor." So how you can be in peace? Suppose you steal something, somebody's property, and falsely claim, "I am proprietor," you'll never be peace because it is not your thing. You have stolen it. So in this way, if you... philosophy can be studied that God is the Supreme Proprietor, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthāḥ (ISO 1). You can simply use what is given to you. You cannot claim other's property. Just like in animal life, animal life, they do not claim that "This is my country." The birds, they do not claim, but they live very peacefully. There are crows, there are spa... What is called? So many birds, they live anywhere, everywhere, but they do not claim, "Oh, this is my country. This is my place." They do not claim. Therefore they are free to move everywhere. So we have created a situation, Godless situation, therefore we are not in peace. So therefore, if you want peace, you must accept God, first of all. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati (BG 5.29), this is the way of śānti. You cannot create your śānti in your own way. That is not possible. Just like the citizens, if they create their own way of śānti, there cannot be peace. If they abide by the orders of the government, by the laws of the government, there will be peace. This is crude example. Similarly, if you do not accept God in the center as the Supreme Proprietor and the Supreme Enjoyer and the Supreme Friend, then there is no peace. This is the problem, I have given in the... What is that? You read it?

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: That is the defect. Lord is the master of material nature, and we are conditioned by the material nature and still we are claiming, "I am God." Then?

Devotee: "Unless one understands these bare facts it is not possible to achieve peace in the world, either individually or collectively. This is the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The Lord Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Predominator and all living entities, including the great demigods, are His subordinates. One can attain perfect peace only in complete Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the Fifth Chapter is the practical explanation of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, generally known as karma-yoga. The question of mental speculation as to how karma-yoga can bring liberation is answered herewith. To work in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is to work with the complete knowledge that the Lord is the predominator. Such work is not different from transcendental knowledge. Direct Kṛṣṇa consciousness is bhakti-yoga. and jñāna-yoga is the path leading to bhakti-yoga. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to work in full knowledge of one's relationship with the Supreme Absolute and the perfection of this consciousness is full knowledge of Kṛṣṇa or Supreme Personality of Godhead. A pure soul is the eternal servant of God as His fragmental part and parcel. He comes into contact with māyā, illusion, due to the desire to lord it over māyā. And that is the cause of his many sufferings. As long as he is in contact with matter he has to execute work in terms of material necessities. Kṛṣṇa consciousness, however, brings one into spiritual life even while he is in the jurisdiction of matter, for it is an arousing of spiritual existence by practice in the material world. The more one is advanced, the more he is free from the clutches of matter. The Lord is not partial toward anyone. Everything depends on ones practical performance of duties in an effort to control the senses and conquer the influence of desire and anger. And attaining Kṛṣṇa consciousness by controlling the above mentioned passions, one remains factually in the transcendental stage of brahma-nirvāṇa. The eight-fold yoga mysticism is automatically practiced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness because the ultimate purpose is served. There's a gradual process of elevation in the practice of yama, niyama, āsana, prāṇāyāma, pratyāhāra, dhāraṇā, dhyāna, and samādhi. But these only preface perfection by devotional service which alone can award peace to the human being. It is the highest perfection of life."

Prabhupāda: Therefore in another place, it is stated, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19), "After many, many births, when actually becomes wise, jñānavān māṁ prapadyate, he surrenders unto Me." That is the perfection of knowledge. So this is... The Bhagavad-gītā is the only source of scientific knowledge of God and our relationship with God. I am very glad that you are already very serious about understanding Bhagavad-gītā. But I request you only that try to... and understand Bhagavad-gītā without any, our man-made interpretation. That will be my request.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because their present knowledge cannot...

Prabhupāda: It is, it is something like, giving post-dated check. I pay you one lakh of rupees, post-dated. Although I have no money,... What is the value of that check? Will anybody accept that check? "Oh, I have received the money." That is foolishness. Why future? You are talking of future, and you are talking of perfectness at present. What is this nonsense? You are claiming that your science is perfect, and, at the same time, when practical example wanted, you say; "I shall do it." The same example. I am saying I am millions, owner of millions of dollars. And you ask me: "Give me some payment." "Yes, I give you post-dated check." Will you accept? At present, if you give me five dollar, I see something tangible. And you're talking of big, big word, but you'll pay me in the future. So is it very sanguine proposal? And I am to accept it? So what kind of intelligent man I am also? You cannot produce even a grass by biological chemistry. You cannot do anything. Still you are claiming: "It is produced of chemistry, biology." What is this nonsense? Nobody questions?

Karandhara: Even it's produced by chemistry, there's laws...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Karandhara: There's laws to those chemical reactions. They never consider who makes the laws?

Prabhupāda: Then? What is this? As soon as there is law, it must be considered that somebody made the law.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So how we, a sane man can trust a thief? A sane man cannot trust a thief. There are so many things. They could not produce even a grass, even a small plant in the biology, chemistry laboratory, and still they're claiming it is product of biology, chemistry. What is this nonsenses. What kind of scientists there are?

Locana: We couldn't even choose when we were born.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Locana: We couldn't even choose being born here.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Locana: So where is the question of control?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is why, in the ultimate analysis, the geologists, mostly when they trace the origin of life, they say everything started from matter. Living matters came out from non-living matters.

Prabhupāda: Where it is coming now? It came in the past and not in the now, and not at present? Wherefrom an ant is coming from this dust. Is there any proof? Even an ant does not come.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So when they think nicely, there's no reason why they don't accept it.

Prabhupāda: But they are not nice men. They are rascals. They're not even gentlemen. A gentleman will have some shyness, some shame. But they're shameless. They cannot answer properly, still, shamelessly, they claim they're scientists.

Brahmānanda: They're expert bluffers.

Prabhupāda: They're not even gentlemen. At least, I take them like that. They're talking that in the past, from matter, living force came, and when I ask them: "Why don't you produce?", "Oh, that we shall do in the future." Why? You have already experienced in the past, and you cannot do it, and you are leaving the matter for future. So they're shameless. Not even ordinary gentlemen. Shameless. That in talking all this nonsense. That is my charge. What do you think?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. They're...

Prabhupāda: Shameless. Shameless men. We cannot say even gentlemen. A gentleman will be shameful, ashamed to speak something nonsense.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: Oh, theory of uncertainty?

Prabhupāda: Uncertainty, yes. Theory of uncertainty. Everything is uncertain. And that is little intelligence. That, how to find out the certainty. (pause)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The scientists, they claim that the discoveries are accidental and incidental, by accident, by chance.

Prabhupāda: What is this? That means they're fools.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In many instances, when they try to find out something, they do not find the real one that they want, but in between, along the way, they find something else. So that is why they call it by accident. Because they did not aim for that, but somehow they get it along the way. (pause) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...also know how to keep pace with the big, big waves. They know how to do it. They're not afraid of big waves.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No proof. How they can say so? (pause) If they accept that life started from life, then they'll have to accept God, the Supreme Person. Just like by practical experience we see one life is produced by another life. The father, mother begets a child. Not that a child drops from the sky. Their test tube experiment also depends on the father and mother. So what is that? Where is the proof? In the test tube you mix some chemical and produce a child. Then your theory is all right. You cannot create even an ant, even a fly. And still you are claiming that you can manufacture human being?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What they'll say manufacture means they will take a seed, that... But

Prabhupāda: But that means that is not... Originally, it is from life. Seed is from the life. So where is your proof that matter produces life? Then you have to accept: life produces life. According to our śāstra, within the semina of the father, the living body, living entity, takes shelter. And it is injected to the mother's womb and the two matters mixes and the body forms. This is our śāstric explanation. Not that the semina discharged by the father, that is life. No. Within that semina, the living entity takes shelter. And it is put into favorable condition. Then it develops the body. This is... We, we find in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That putting of the living entity in a particular type of semina depends on higher authorities. The higher authorities will judge what kind of body this living entity, after leaving this body, will get. So by higher authority it will be directed to enter into the semina of such father, and it will be injected into the womb of the mother. Then you'll get, develop a particular type of body and come out and suffer or enjoy. This is the process.

Morning Walk -- April 28, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the real knowledge is taken away by ignorance?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The real knowledge...is taken away by ignorance.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then it says: andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). One blind man is claiming that: "I shall lead you, other blind men."

Brahmānanda: Into the pit.

Prabhupāda: That's all. (pause) And in Bhāgavata, in one word, finishes all... Kliśyamānānām. You'll have to work hard, avidyā kāma-karmabhiḥ, by your creating so many desires. By this process, you'll have to simply work hard. That's all. Because it is ignorance. You do not know what is the goal of life. So kāma-karmabhiḥ. You desire something: "Now we shall do like this." That means you create another problem. And you have to work very hard. That's all.

Prabhupāda: What is the next line of that verse? Anyone remembers? No.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yesterday's?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) This research work is kāma-karmabhiḥ. This, in the laboratory, research work, that is kāma-karmabhiḥ. They're planning something. That is kāma-karma. He, he does not take the planning of Kṛṣṇa. He makes his own plan. That is kāma-karma. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.20). In another place, it is said: When one is engaged in the matter of these unnecessary desires, he becomes lost of all intelligence. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.20). (pause) It is like the child's crying. The child is crying, asking mother: "Give me that moon." The mother gives a mirror. "Here is moon, my dear son." He takes the mirror. He sees the moon. "Oh, yes..." He has got the moon. It is not story. Now these rascals are going to the moon planet. Why they have stopped talking anymore?

Morning Walk -- April 28, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's not possible.

Prabhupāda: No, no. But see how Kṛṣṇa's energy is working. You cannot create even a few grains of sand, and you are claiming that: "We have become more than God." How foolishness it is.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They will take the, the matter from Kṛṣṇa, and they will manipulate, and they will claim that they have done it. For example, they can make some, some sands...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. At least if you accept that "I have taken this matter from Kṛṣṇa." That is also good. Just like we take. We take Kṛṣṇa, from Kṛṣṇa is coming everything. That's all.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they will not say that they are taking from Kṛṣṇa. They'll say that they have created.

Prabhupāda: How they have created? You take the sand and mix with some chemicals, make glass. So you have not created the sand. The chemicals, you have not created. You have taken from the earth. So where is your creation?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They will say that: "I have taken from the nature."

Morning Walk -- April 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh, five thousand dollars. She has got some assets. That is called strī-dhana. Strī-dhana means "woman's property." Nobody can touch it. Only, according to Manu-saṁhitā law, strī-dhana... Now they are changing. Strī-dhana, the son cannot touch, the husband cannot touch. Nobody can touch. But, after her death, the daughters will share that money. Because formerly, the daughters could not get share of the father's estate. Only the dowry which is given by the father at the time of her marriage. That much. But she could not claim any estate share. Therefore at the time of marriage, the dowry by ornaments, saris. Hundred pieces of sari. If one is rich man. All Benarsee sari, costly. And woman's nature is that if she gets good ornaments, saris, good food, she's satisfied. She doesn't want anything. She'll never become faithless to her husband. So these things are disappearing. Now rich man, rich man's wife, no ornament. (indistinct). Only the widows, they were without ornaments. Any woman who has got husband must have ornaments. Otherwise, insult. So individual liberty, individual prosperity, everything is disappearing. By the scientific improvement. That's all. This is the net result. Now in your country, that... What is that? Draft board? Eh?

Karandhara: Draft board?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Calling young men to fight.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Drafting... The army?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Because always women population is greater than the man. So those who are kings, they could maintain more than one wife. So not only one wife, another three dozen maid-servants. They are freely mixing with king. They got also children. But they were not, I mean to say, eligible for throne. Only the married wife's son. This is, this was the system. Just like Vidura. Vidura happened to be a son of such maid-servant. So she had, he had no claim on the throne. Dāsī-putra. They were called dāsī-putras. They were maintained. Just like in royal family, but they have no claim on the throne. (pause)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There are two scientists working on how to make...

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: How to make chemicals for contraceptive. One is in Stanford. His name is Carl Geraldsey. And one is in Harvard. His name is Corey, E.J. Corey. They are quite famous now.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are very famous now.

Prabhupāda: Because they gave contraceptives?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. They are trying to make compounds, steroids.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just the same example: As you get more money, you can acquire better apartment. The apartment is already there. Not that a apart..., this lower class apartment has become high class apartment. This is their nonsense. The Darwin nonsense theory is like that: "The apartment has become lower class to higher class." That is his theory.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, he is saying that evolving from the smaller units. So they are claiming that there was no human beings at the beginning, so the smaller living entities...

Prabhupāda: But they are claiming that there is no life. That is their defect. Therefore they cannot think how there can be human being. But if you begin from life, supreme life, Viṣṇu, from another life, Brahmā came, then there is no problem. Everything is all right. Because they think that life comes from matter, so millions and millions of years ago there was simply matter. Life was not visible. That is their theory. We don't say that. We say both are the energies, God's energies, life and matter. The life is superior energy; the matter is inferior energy. That is the difference. Both of them are existing. Same thing, example: This nail and this part existing always. This is superior part, this is inferior.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Paramahaṁsa: That's the soul, Prabhupāda, but about God...

Prabhupāda: First of all let us understand the soul. Soul is the, a small God, sample God. If you understand the sample, then you can understand the whole thing.

Umāpati: Some scientists are claiming that just because they haven't yet discovered how to create life, they are soon to, and...

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Umāpati: They are in the process of trying to create life.

Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. That we kick out. That we kick on their face. You show what you have got just now. That we don't accept, that "We are trying."A rascal will say, "I am trying to be millionaire." When you become millionaire, then talk. Now you are a poor vagabond. That's all. That we shall accept. What... You are trying. Everyone will say, "I am trying." What you are now? That is our proposition.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is baka. We call baka.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are all the time... They stay mostly in wet lands.

Prabhupāda: Yes, bakāṇḍa-nyāya.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The scientists, when we say that "The attempts that you are doing are no good." Then they want to make sure that what I am saying is right.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because I see that you are rascal, therefore I am right. You are rascal. You don't admit, but I see that you are rascal. You don't admit, but I see that you are a rascal. Therefore I am right. This is the argument. You are so rascal that you cannot admit your rascaldom. Just like this moon planet expedition. But I, sixteen years before, I told that these are rascals. Therefore I am right.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They claim that "We have done so much."

Prabhupāda: What have you done? You have simply spoiled money. That's all. In that sense I have done so much. Simply by teaching people, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," they are coming to such light. What do you think? I have done most wonderful thing than them.

Conversation with Sridhara Maharaja -- June 27, 1973, Navadvipa:

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: And Tīrtha Mahārāja is trying a, feed (be?) a pigeon or something like that, and staring... These were the pictures while London preaching. And the money...

Prabhupāda: So our present Tīrtha Mahārāja, Bhakti-Vilāsa-Tīrtha Mahārāja, he's representing Prabhupāda. At least, he tries to pose himself. So Bon Mahārāja's activities, in comparison to that, my activities certainly better. And Bon Mahārāja was given so much reception. But he did not give me any reception. How he can claim to be Prabhupāda's representative?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Bon Mahārāja was given reception because Prabhupāda...

Prabhupāda: No, Prabhupāda appreciated anyway.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Anyway.

Prabhupāda: But here there is no appreciation.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That's it.

David Wynne: Yes. But it feels like it when one creates it. One's surprised and didn't know what it was going to be like and cannot claim it.

Prabhupāda: No. God supplies the ingredients. That just like you are working on stone. So who has supplied the stone?

David Wynne: Yes, this I can understand because it's...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then you are working on the stone with your intelligence, but who has supplied you the intelligence? You are working with your hand, but who has supplied you the hand? In this way, if we consider that everything belongs to God; therefore the result must be given to God. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

David Wynne: Sometimes one gets in the way. Sometimes one, when one's own wishes intrude, one can spoil what's being made by trying to put one's own ideas at the wrong time. But at other times, even with somebody who's as bad at it as me, the, something else does come through, doesn't it? The, the, what should be there if one senses and stands back and lets it come.

Prabhupāda: What is that? Sometimes it is not successful?

Śyāmasundara: When we try artificially to impose our idea on something, say, a sculpture, sometimes we make a mistake and it comes out not good.

Prabhupāda: That mistake you are responsible.

David Wynne: Yeah. Yeah.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Devotee: Haribol.

Prabhupāda: So you can, at any time, visit our temple. You can understand, try to understand the conception of God. We shall try to explain. But we can, at least, so far our knowledge is concerned, we have got a clear conception of God, what is meant by God. Therefore we do not accept the so-called dogs as God. No. So many people come: "I am God. I am God." We kick on their face. We don't accept. We don't accept such cheap gods. God is one, and He's all-powerful. That is our conception. We all servants of God. If anyone says that "I am servant of God," he's welcome. He's my master. The servant of God is my master. And if anyone claims to become God, I kick on his face. This is our principle. Because he's pretender, cheater. He should be punished immediately. So you, there are other papers also, published? You have seen? No.

Devotee: Are there any papers, newspaper articles?

Śyāmasundara: I'll find out, report tomorrow.

Kulaśekhara: There's none today.

David Wynne: There's other pictures inside, though, aren't there.

Śyāmasundara: You saw inside the pictures?

Prabhupāda: Yes. But this picture is very nice.

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Just like as soon as you come to the prison house, you are all criminals. You may be very intelligent, but because you are in the prison house, you are criminal. Because you are in the prison house, that is the proof that you are a criminal. You may be very intelligent man.

Mr. Wadell: Oh yes, I'm not claiming... I haven't any claim to goodness. You must understand that.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, any living entity, any living entity who is originally part and parcel of God, God is all-good, therefore the part and parcel of God is also all-good. But as soon as comes to the material world, he (break) As exactly like the same, that as soon as one is put into the prison wall, within, he is a criminal. Now he has to undergo the criminal laws. Similarly, because we have come to this material world, we have to undergo the material tribulations. We cannot avoid.

Mr. Wadell: Well this is a very long... We are now on a topic on which I should have to require or ask, if I put it more politely, much more time than I have. Now, I am a person with responsibility to my boys. I must go now and say our prayers in the Christian way, which...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That is... These are items. These are items. First of all you have to follow a perfect leader. Then whatever he says, that is perfect. So that peace, you have given a definition of peace. Kṛṣṇa is giving definition of peace:

bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ
sarva-loka-maheśvaram
suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ
jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati
(BG 5.29)

"I am the proprietor of all the lokas," sarva-loka-maheśvaram, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. "I am the friend of everyone." Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasām. "And I am the enjoyer of all fruitive activities." Jñātvā mām. "When one knows Me like that, he gets śānti." This is the śānti formula given by Kṛṣṇa. One has to accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Enjoyer. Because He's the proprietor of everything; therefore He should be enjoyer. And because everything belongs to Him—we also belong to Him—so suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām, He's friend of everyone. So these three things, if you understand-Kṛṣṇa, or God, is the supreme enjoyer. He is the supreme proprietor, and He is the supreme friend of everyone—then you get śānti. If we understand these three things only, then there is śānti. Otherwise there is no possibility of śānti. Now, how it is fact, that is a subject matter of discussion. Say, Kṛṣṇa says that sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29), "I am the proprietor of all the lokas." And now you study this fact. Who is the proprietor? We are claiming proprietor, nation. Englishmen, they are claiming, "This land belongs to the English people." Others claiming this land belongs to the American, Indian, like that. But are they actually the proprietor? Take for example the American land. Two hundred years ago, or, say...? How many years ago they won it?

Haṁsadūta: Four hundred.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Four hundred years ago the land was there. They, these Europeans, migrated there. Now they are proprietor. So four hundred years ago, who was the proprietor. In this way, trace history. The land is there, the ocean is there, everything is there. We sometimes claim that "I am the proprietor," "We are the proprietor," but this is lying there. Who is actually the proprietor? Actually proprietor is God, Kṛṣṇa. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything is owned by the supreme īśvara. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). So if we study scrutinizingly, then we'll find God is the proprietor actually. He is the creator; therefore He is the proprietor. And because He is the proprietor, He is friend of all. Actually. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). Īśvara is situated in everyone's heart as Paramātmā, and He's giving us good counsel. We are not abiding by that. We are disobeying. Therefore we are suffering. Otherwise, He's giving us good counsel, good advice. So this formula, that bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām... (BG 5.29). So if we accept God, or Kṛṣṇa, as the supreme friend, then whatever advice He'll give me, if we follow, then I am happy. There is no difficulty. He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). If we do that, we become happy.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they don't. Yes. God has created different foodstuff for different living entities.

Buddhist Monk (1): But they interpret that God created them also for their consumption.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Buddhist Monk (1): They interpret that they have, the God has created the cattle also for their food.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But that is... The cattle food is food for the non-civilized man. If you claim to be civilized, you cannot eat.

Buddhist Monk (1): (laughs) Live and let live. That's what I have been asking people wherever I go. They talk of culture, civilization, progress, development, living standards, education, equality, freedom, lots of things. I asked them to define this, and I asked them, "The animals are of two types: the carnivorous and the vegetarian. Of course, the carnivorous looks even fiercer. But where has one found in the forest so many thousands of animals slaughtered and lying at random? But man today, in the name of progress and civilization..."

Prabhupāda: Very, very good. Yes.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes, go on.

David Lawrence: "2.) to give the teacher all the information," uh, where were we, "he or she may need to find out more than the booklet can include, for example, to satisfy the really interested inquirer, 3.) by a total sense experience, the cultural gap, which may unnecessarily alienate the students and therefore hamper a worthwhile consideration of the movement, 4.) by offering a wide variety of approaches, the student will not feel that he is simply studying another textbook, 5.) a booklet on Kṛṣṇa consciousness without the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra in a living form would be an absurdity, so the contents of the teacher's pack: A.) the forty-five r.p.m. record of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, B.) a glossy poster of Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa, C.) a map of the devotional centers of Kṛṣṇa, D.) a list of additional films, filmstrips and records likely to help the student, both from the center and from elsewhere, E.) sample literature from the organization, e.g. Back to Godhead, F.) a pack of Spiritual Sky incense, G.) a filmstrip,"—the enclosure of the filmstrip depends on the costing; R.E. departments are always very poor in this country—"H.) recipes and notes on the meaning of ārati, I.) several sheets of objections to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and the rebuttals of these objections, J.) suggestions for the teaching of the subject." Then I've gone on to say a little bit about the structure of the booklet. "Hopefully, the first section would establish the claims of the relevance of the spiritual life in 1973, and then the claims of Kṛṣṇa consciousness to be the true pathway to the eternal. This we would like to do by means of holding up a respected example of somebody who is already walking the path, e.g. an ideal way would be by the examination of the beliefs of George Harrison, and more especially of those expounded on living in the material world." Then go on to the history of the movement: "Lord Caitanya, Śrī Sarasvatī,..." apologies for the way I pronounce the names, "Śrī Prabhupāda's commission to the western world, the growth of ISKCON, the establishment of the London center," you know, to bring it locally, if you like, then on to "a typical devotee, his day..." This, I've said, will help to personalize the whole idea, you know. They can relate to the person concerned with this. Then "a section on the sacred scriptures of the Vedas, a background, and then quotations of frequently used texts. Then onto the beliefs of the devotees, based mainly upon the eight principles of ISKCON, and the Introduction of the Bhagavad-gītā As It Is." Our hopes are to, you know, work very hard from that section because it's, that introduction has got everything. I've been working on it a week, and I think, uh, I've gone back over...

Prabhupāda: The Bhagavad-gītā?

David Lawrence: Oh, yes. I've gone back over it about forty times now already. So I think I'm beginning to get hold of it. And then there would be lastly a reference section which would include all addresses that they would find useful, a glossary of the terms used, and an index, etc.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

David Lawrence: I was very interested this last week to be reading a book which really was trying to defend orthodox Christianity, and it was by a very devotional Christian writer, and he, in fact, was making exactly the same points as yourself about the God consciousness of Jesus. I read the Ratha-yātrā magazine, and saw how, I think it was a nun that asked you about the position of Jesus on this, and you quite rightly said, "Well, of course, Jesus never claimed to be God." I do wish that some Christians would realize that. He was God conscious, wasn't he?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

David Lawrence: The churches in this land seem to have forgotten that. He never claimed to be God.

Prabhupāda: No, how he could claim? He's a devotee of God, he's servant of God. How he can claim? Of course, there is no difference between God and His servant. Yes. That we say. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata... **. Because a devotee, like Lord Jesus Christ, means confidential servant of God, there is no difference between God and himself. Just like any political representative or business representative, he's, if he's a confidential representative, there is no difference between the king or the proprietor of the firm, so long he represents rightly. Similarly, anyone who represents God or the cause of God, he's not different from God.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: One should not become his kinsman. This is negative side, going on. One should not become a spiritual master, one should not pose himself as kinsman... Gurur na sa syāt sva-jano na sa syāt. Then?

Pradyumna: Pitā na sa syāt.

Prabhupāda: One should not become a father. And pitā na sa syāt, jananī na sā syāt. One should not claim to become mother. Then?

Pradyumna: Daivaṁ na tat syān.

Prabhupāda: One should not... Because somebody worships some forms of God. So that gods should also not be worshiped. Then? Go on.

Pradyumna: Na pitaś ca sa syān.

Prabhupāda: Na pitā?

Pradyumna: Oh, na patiś ca sa syān.

Prabhupāda: Ah, na patiḥ. And one should not become husband also. Because husband is supposed to be instructor to the wife. Husband is the guardian of the wife. So he's responsible for her spiritual advancement. As much as the father is responsible for the spiritual advancement of his child, the spiritual master is responsible... Anyone who is claiming to be superior, he should be responsible for the inferior's spiritual advancement of life. So the conclusion is that they should not claim to become such and such unless they are able to save the subordinate from the imminent danger of death. Because death is there so long one is not spiritually advanced. As soon as one is spiritually advanced, he goes to the spiritual world, transferred. Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām (BG 9.25). Spiritually advancement means to be transferred to the spiritual world. So this is the main business of the father, of the husband, of the spiritual master, of the king, of the guardian, of kinsmen. Everyone should be alert: "Whether I am helping my subordinate in the spiritual advancement of life." Because that will save him from the repetition of birth and death. And otherwise, what benefit you can do? If he's under the laws of karma, if he's going to become a cat or dog in next life, what help you have given to him? If he's under the laws of karma, then your help is no use. Your help is no use.

Room Conversation with Sir Alistair Hardy -- July 21, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Read the purport.

Pradyumna: "The Lord has spoken about the peculiarity of His birth. Although He may appear like an ordinary person, He remembers everything of His many, many past births, whereas a common man cannot remember what he has done even a few hours before. If someone is asked what he did exactly at the same time one day earlier, it would be very difficult for a common man to answer immediately. He would surely have to dredge his memory to recall what he was doing exactly at the same time one day before. And yet, men often dare claim to be God, or Kṛṣṇa. One should not be misled by such meaningless claims. Then again, the Lord explains His prakṛti, or His form. Prakṛti means nature, as well as svarūpa, or one's own form. The Lord says that He appears in His own body. He does not change His body as the common living entity changes from one body to another. The conditioned soul may have one kind of body in the present birth, but yet a different body in the next birth. In the material world, the living entity has no fixed body, but transmigrates from one body to another. The Lord, however, does not do so. Whenever He appears, He does so in the same original body by His internal potency. In other words, Kṛṣṇa appears in this material world in his original eternal form with two hands, holding a flute. He appears exactly in His eternal body, uncontaminated by this material world. Although He appears in the same transcendental body and is the Lord of the universe, it still appears that He takes His birth like an ordinary living entity. Despite the fact Lord Kṛṣṇa grows from childhood to boyhood and from boyhood to youth, astonishingly enough, He never ages beyond youth. At the time of the Battle of Kurukṣetra, He had many grandchildren at home, or in other words, He had sufficiently aged by material calculations. Still, He looked just like a young man, twenty or twenty-five years old. We never see a picture of Kṛṣṇa in old age because He never grows old like us, although He is the oldest person in the..."

Prabhupāda: Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca (Bs. 5.33). Purāṇa-puruṣa, the oldest man, oldest living entity, but nava-yauvana, just like young man. Nava-yauvanaṁ ca. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣam (Bs. 5.33). Purāṇa means oldest, because He's the origin of all living entities. But nava-yauvanaṁ ca, just a fresh, young man. Hm. Go on.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: There it is stated

sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya
mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ
tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir
ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā
(BG 14.4)

Lord Kṛṣṇa says that there are different species of life, yoni. According to Padma Purāṇa there are eight million, four hundred thousand species of different forms of life. So Kṛṣṇa claims that "All these living entities, in different forms of life, I am the seed-giving father of all of them, and the material nature is the mother." Just like father impregnates with the seed, and the mother gives the body, similarly God impregnates material nature with all kinds of living entities, not in different forms, but the original seed. And according to one's karma, he comes out in different types of bodies. The body is given by material nature, and the life is given by God. This is the sum and substance. And therefore God is one, and He's the father of everyone. As such, without the center point, God consciousness, we cannot substantiate the ideas of universal brotherhood. Because if the center is missing, then how we can think of universal brotherhood? If we accept God is the center point, father, then I can understand you are my brother. Because you are also son of God; I am also son of God.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: I'm speaking the principle. The king must be representative of God. Therefore we offer so much honor to the King. Exactly like God. Why? Because King is supposed to be representative of God. Our Vedic conception is cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. This catur-varṇa. It is the king's duty, government's duty, to see that a person claiming to be brāhmaṇa, whether he's acting as a brāhmaṇa. Nowadays that... Such supervision is not there. Therefore a man acting as śūdra, but he's claiming to be brāhmaṇa.

Reporter: Yeah, yeah, yeah. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Isn't it?

Reporter: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: So it is the king's duty. Just like the king, it is the government's duty to see that nobody cheats. If a person without any medical qualification, if he writes "Doctor, Medical practitioner," he should be punished. Similarly, if one is claiming to be brāhmaṇa, he must act as brāhmaṇa. If one is claiming to be kṣatriya, he must act as a kṣatriya. Now, what are the qualifications of brāhmaṇa, what are the qualifications of kṣatriya, they are there already in Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So this is government's duty, that you are claiming that everyone should be employed, everyone should be engaged, in his own occupation. That is called svadharmeṇa idanasya(?). Sva-dharma means the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. By quality. Guṇa-karma. By quality and work. So it is the duty of the government to see that a śūdra is employed, is engaged as a śūdra, a vaiśya is employed and engaged as... Just like vaiśya. Vaiśya, it is said that kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Now the vaiśyas, they are in the share market speculating.

Reporter: Hm. There are no more vaiśyas. (laughs) Exactly.

Prabhupāda: Industrialists. Industrialists means śūdras. So if they're śūdras, why they should claim as...

Reporter: Vaiśyas.

Prabhupāda: This is government's duty. To see, "Why you are claiming vaiśya? If your industry is to produce food grains, agriculture, give protection to the cows..." So in India ten thousand cows are being killed, and the vaiśyas are big, big (indistinct), big, big zamindars. You see.

Car Conversation after meeting with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: The metaphysical search... Now metaphysically search out why do you deny soul in the human being, uh, in the animals? That is metaphysical. It is metaphysical question. What is your metaphysical study about the living, uh, animals that you say there is no soul? Come to the metaphysical then. You are thinking metaphysically. That's all right. But if you are still thinking like animal, then what is the use of your metaphysical studies? If you are thinking like the animals: "Where shall I get my food? Where shall I take shelter? Where shall I have sexual facility? How shall I defend?" If you are thinking like that, this is animal thinking. Metaphysical thinking means beyond this, beyond this thinking of eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That is metaphysical thinking. So what you are thinking beyond that? That is God consciousness. When a human being thinks about God, that is metaphysical. When he thinks like animals about eating, sleeping, mating and defending, that is not metaphysical. Metaphysical. What do you mean by metaphysical? How to define? What is the meaning of "meta"? Above physical. That means spiritual. So if you think spiritually, then you'll see. Just like Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa claims: sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). "In all forms of life, the living entities are there, and they are My sons." So this is metaphysical, or if some third-class man says that there is no soul in the animal, that is metaphysical? Which one is metaphysical? Kṛṣṇa speaking will be metaphysical, or a third-class fool's statement will be taken as metaphysical? Which one is metaphysical? First of all say me.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Similarly, two million kinds of dresses of the trees, plants, like that. In this way the Vedic literatures have calculated, there are eight million, four hundred thousand forms of living entity. But they're all living entities, part and parcel of God. Just like one man has got ten sons. Not all of them equally meritorious. Not all. One may be high-court judge. And one may be ordinary clerk in the office. But father, both the high-court judge and the clerk in the office, father claims both of them as son.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes, yes, I agree.

Prabhupāda: For father, there is no such distinction that: "This high-court judge is very important and the clerk in the office, my son, he's not important." So if the enlightened son, high-court judge, says to the father: "My dear father, your, this son, is useless. Let me cut him and eat." Will the father allow?

Yogeśvara: (asks in French if this is clear)

Cardinal Danielou: Non.

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Prabhupāda: Apart from this consideration, at least this morality should be observed that cows, they're our mother. We should not kill at least mothers for eating the flesh.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Dr. Inger: Creator. Of course.

Prabhupāda: Creator. So why you are claiming other's property as "my own"? "This is my country. This is my country." And we are so rascal and we are making United Nation.

Dr. Inger: It doesn't belong to anyone.

Prabhupāda: It doesn't belong to anyone. And these rascals are claiming, "This is my. This is my, this is my flag. This is..." Therefore they are all cheaters. And they are combining and trying to cheat other that "How much I can cheat you." "I am American. How much I can cheat you, Russian." Russian thinking, "Yes, I am also cheater. How much I can cheat you." This is going on, cheaters and cheated. And they are wasting their time. Is that civilization, to become cheater and cheated and waste our time in some so-called conferences? Is that civilization, do you think?

Dr. Inger: No. Not at all, but that's exactly as you say.

Prabhupāda: American, they cheated the Red Indians. They got the land. Now they are claiming, "It is my land." But where you got this land? You have cheated the Red Indians, and you claim now it is your land. "Nobody should come here." Everywhere that is there it belongs to... Napoleon, he thought, "France is mine." France is there. Where he has gone, the proprietor? Yes. And with this idea he fought so much. Now nobody knows what he has become, where he is living, either in France or in hell, maybe in heaven.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: First, first of all, you take care of yourself. Then you think of others. (break)

Devotee: ...hear from Bhagavad-gītā (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: How he claims to be the body?

Bhagavān: He says people say that there is consciousness in this body because there is the soul. Then at the end of the body, soul is finished, the body is finished. Everything finished.

Prabhupāda: Why soul is finished?

Bhagavān: Because they say the body is finished.

Prabhupāda: No body is finished. My childhood body is finished, but the soul is not finished.

Bhagavān: They will not listen logically. What can you do?

Prabhupāda: How it is? My childhood body, my babyhood body is finished. It is no longer existing. So how I am existing? Therefore his statement that body is finished and the soul is finished is wrong. We see practically. The body is finished, the soul is existing. This is practical. Why he's talking nonsense—"The body is finished, and the soul is finished." Where the soul is finished? I remember my childhood body. So I, I am existing, but my childhood body's finished. That is the fact. Therefore with the annihilation of the body, the soul does not annihilate. This is the conclusion.

Discussion about Guru Maharaji -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So God could not... Kṛṣṇa says: ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo... (BG 18.66). That God can, without dying Himself, He can immediately and, I mean to say, vanquish all sinful action. Why He should be killed for that purpose? Just like the Pūtanā gave Kṛṣṇa poison. But Pūtanā was killed. And Kṛṣṇa was never ki... Kṛṣṇa cannot be killed by poison. Even Kṛṣṇa's devotees are not killed by poison. Prahlāda Mahārāja. If we discuss in detail, we create animosities. Therefore we do not discuss because Christian religion is followed by large number. We do not wish to make... We say yes. He says: "Son of God." We accept it. That's all. To accept a person God, that requires great evidences from śāstra. Especially. And when he's present, He will prove the statement of the śāstra. Then we accept Caitanya Mahāprabhu, God. There are evidences... (break) You see. We don't allow anybody to pass on as God because we are presenting real God. We must make process. The real process is to kill him. But that much power we haven't got. We cannot do that. Otherwise, we would have done so. Nobody should be allowed to claim as God. And severe punishment for him. Kṛṣṇa has shown this example.

Morning Walk -- August 30, 1973, London:

David Lawrence: Yes. It's one of the interesting features was, of this little bit about Lord Caitanya was in fact that he claimed Him to be pathological.

Prabhupāda: Just like...

David Lawrence: You know the manifestations obviously of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and kīrtana and so on. Seems to be obviously you regard as a scurrilous or wrong-headed or a dull-headed field of people who regard His manifestations of God consciousness as verging on madness, or temporary madness. What would you say about that. Obviously you would reject it.

Prabhupāda: When a man is himself mad, he'll find others mad.

David Lawrence: Yes, true. (laughter) Yes, he sees a reflection of himself.

Prabhupāda: If one is himself deaf, he'll think others are deaf. So ātmavat manyate jagat, everyone thinks the whole world is like him. Therefore they think Kṛṣṇa also like him. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). That is condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā that "These rascals, because I come in human form to benefit them, they take Me as human being." That is mentioned. But these things are taken like that by the mūḍhas. Mūḍhas means rascals, asses.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Haṁsadūta: Yes, we have a temple in Berlin, and Munchen, and Hamburg and Heidelberg.

Prabhupāda: No, we are not discouraged. We are not discouraged. But sometimes we are sorry that such a nice movement...

Ambassador: Is not supported. I mean, I... We have this dilemma. I'm being very honest with you. First, we have got the dilemma of choosing the right thing, you know, because so many people claim to speak about reviving Hinduism.

Prabhupāda: But, as, as you find out... Just like you issue license to medical practitioner. Registered medical... Why don't you see that which movement is genuine? That is the duty of the government. But the government is also, they're unaware about which one is actually... (Devotees bring in prasāda.)

Ambassador: Oh, I'm... I'm very grateful to you, but this is, it is a meal.

Paramahaṁsa: Jaya. It is our pleasure.

Prabhupāda: You can keep here.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) Bhāgavata verse, janmādy asya (SB 1.1.1), asya janmādi (indistinct) concise word but volumes of meanings. Volumes. Each word is like that. Vidyā bhāgavata-vali(?). Therefore one's learning is complete when he reads Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Otherwise he remains imperfect, in spite of all learning. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), from where? Now the creation of this cosmic world, from where? But you do not know from where. This is explained in Bhāgavatam. Paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. That is actually true. In this way simply if you analyze one verse, you'll find each word is full of volumes of meaning. Janmādy asya yataḥ, anvayāt (SB 1.1.1). Like the creation, anvayāt, directly and indirectly, itarataś cārtheṣu, in the matter of understanding, abhijñaḥ. Abhijñaḥ means completely cognizant. That is the Absolute Truth. He knows everything—how this universe is created, how it is maintained, how it annihilated, directly and indirectly. Just like, I always, regular, everyday thing, when I am massaged by my student, I see so many veins so I think that I claim, "This is my leg," but I do not know what are these veins. Directly I know this is my leg, but indirectly I do not know how this leg is working with these veins and nerves and muscles. I do not know. But so far God is concerned, He has created. He knows every veins and everything. That is called abhijñaḥ. In this way you analyze every word, you'll find volumes of meaning. The next question, "Where you got this experience?" You say He's abhijñaḥ, He knows everything. To get experience one must have teacher. But the next word is svarāṭ, He's experienced and self-sufficiency, svarāṭ, independent. He hasn't got to go anywhere for experiencing. In this way each word is full of meaning. Janmādy asya yataḥ, anvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ svarāṭ, tene brahma hṛdā ya ādi-kavaye muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ (SB 1.1.1). We have very shortly described this one verse. I think five, six pages. You've got that verse?

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: How can be all Gods then? That is practical. If everyone is God, then what is the meaning of God? If... Do you think everyone is president, everyone is Indira Gandhi? Indira Gandhi is one. The Prime Minister cannot be many. It is a common sense. How everyone can be God? This is nonsense. Anyone thinks that there are many gods, he does not know what is God. Aiye. God is one. Ekaṁ brahma dvitīyaṁ nāsti. Therefore there is no education what is God. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagava... Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "Nobody else superior than Me." That is God. Asama-ūrdhva. God is described in the Bhagavad-gītā as asama-ūrdhva. You can come this side? Let them come forward. You sit down... (break) ...equal to God. And nobody can be greater than God. That is "God is great." If somebody becomes equal to you, how you can be great? Or if somebody is higher than you, then how you can be great? So there is no equal to God, nor greater than Him. That is God. And that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). (break) "...anyone greater than Me." That is God. There are so many Gods, false gods, nowadays. Can anyone say that "Nobody is greater than me"? All these rascal Gods, can he say? Can anyone say? Immediately... He feels some sickness. Immediately he has to call greater God, physician. And he's claiming, "I am God." We don't want such kind of God, manufactured God. We want real God. When we see nobody is greater than Him, that is God. (break) ...We accept so many pseudo, pretender as God. But we do not know how to test him, whether he is greater than everyone? Whether nobody is greater than him? Then he's God. Can you find out any, so many gods, who has no greater than him, or equal to him? You are claiming You are God, I am also claiming, God. Then we are equal. Then how you can be God or how I can be God? We are equals. As soon as you find there are equals, or as soon as find there is greater, then you are not God. God—the great. He must be greater than everyone. Therefore śāstra has concluded, īśvara, God; parama, the Supreme; Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). And why? Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). His body is sat, cit, sac-cid-ānanda. Now you test. Your body's not sac-cid-ānanda. Sat means eternal, cit means full of knowledge, ānanda means full of bliss. Is, is my body sac-cid-ānanda, this body? No. It is not eternal. It is full of ignorance. It is full of miseries. Then how it can be God? So God, there cannot be many Gods. Many gods, that is not many, that is one. Just like you have got millions of photographs. That does not mean you are million. You are one. But you have expanded millions. Just like the sun is found in every pot. In millions of pot, you keep. And the sun is reflected. Does it mean the sun has become million? No. The sun is one.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Guest (1): Kṛṣṇa says, yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22).

Prabhupāda: Yes. Here it is. Kṛṣṇa is giving opportunity of eating for the cats and dogs, the birds and beasts, and I am engaged in His service, He'll not give me food? Because we are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, therefore we are thinking, "If I do not work like these cats and dogs, I'll starve." That is my imperfect Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And perfect Kṛṣṇa consciousness means he knows that "I have engaged my life in Kṛṣṇa's business. Kṛṣṇa is..., Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He's feeding millions and millions of living entities. And he'll keep me starving?" Is it possible? That means he, he does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. He's thinking Kṛṣṇa is a fictitious thing. That is his position. He does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...then they would have been confident, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is feeding everyone. Why not me? What I have done? Because I am engaged in His service, therefore I shall starve?" And the devotee has no such question also, whether he'll starve or eat. It doesn't matter if he starves. It doesn't matter. He thinks, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has put me in this position, to starve." Just like in hospital. A patient is ordered by the physician: "You should not eat anything." So he knows, "It is good for me." Similarly, a devotee, when he's starving, he knows, "Kṛṣṇa has put me in this starving condition. It is good for me." He never complains.

tat te 'nukampāṁ susamīkṣamāṇo
bhuñjāna evātma-kṛtaṁ vipākam
hṛd-vāg-vapurbhir vidadhan namas te
jīveta yo mukti-pade sa dāya-bhāk
(SB 10.14.8)

Anyone lives in that way, that "Kṛṣṇa has put me in this distressed condition of life. It is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. I would have been put into more severe condition of life, but He is a little, giving me little pain. So I must be very much obliged to Kṛṣṇa that He's so kind upon me." So if one lives like that, mukti-pade sa dāya-bhāk, he has got the claim to become liberated. Just like a son has got the right to claim the property of father, similarly, one who lives like this, he has the claim to become liberated. Mukti-pade sa dāya-bhāk. That is... This is Bhāgavata's statement. And similarly, in the Bhagavad-gītā, also it is stated... Sit down. Yes. Why you are late? We have talked so many things.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1973, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Government's duty to see that people may not become cheated. (Hindi) Let me speak in English, so they can follow.

Guest: So they can follow.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. Take for example a man is representing himself as brāhmaṇa but he's doing something else. That should be stopped. You are doing the business of a śūdra, why you are claiming as brāhmaṇa? This is government duty.

Guest: Now say this person who is doing wrong(?)...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: ...is very touchy about his being śūdra?

Prabhupāda: No, why he should be?

Guest: No, but he thinks that all of us look down upon him. So one has to be very careful. And I think that if you could say something about the real Harijana.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that I'll speak, that I'll speak. Now, if he is coming from the śūdra community...

Guest: Yes.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1973, Delhi:

Guest: Quite right.

Prabhupāda: That is the.... Now it is the duty of the secular government.... Now if somebody is claiming that, "I am brāhmaṇa", then government should force him to become actually a brāhmaṇa. That is government's duty, that is secular state. Not that let people go to hell, we don't care for them, that is not required.

Guest: Yes, but if a brāhmaṇa is not behaving...

Prabhupāda: If you are claiming to become a brāhmaṇa, you must act as a brāhmaṇa.

Lady Guest: (indistinct) of a brāhmaṇas.

Guest: And actions and duty....

Prabhupāda: That should be the platform.

Guest: Because if a brāhmaṇa goes on drinking and abusing...

Prabhupāda: That is not brāhmaṇa. How can that be brāhmaṇa? That is a śūdra, caṇḍāla. Then what is the difference between a.... But they are claiming brāhmaṇa by birth. That is not allowed in the śāstra.

Guest: No, no.

Prabhupāda: It is not allowed.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Bali Mardana: And divorce.

Prabhupāda: And divorce.

Bali Mardana: It says, "Thou shalt not commit adultery."

Prabhupāda: So these rascals, how do they claim Christian? Eh? What do you think? They're not even category, in the category of dogs, cats, and they're claiming that "We are follower of Lord Jesus Christ."

Sudāmā: But they also argue, Prabhupāda, that that law, "Thou shalt not kill," "I am not killing. The others are killing. But I am not."

Prabhupāda: Just see. Is that very good argument? "I am not killing."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But he's eating.

Prabhupāda: "I am not killing the snake. My stick is killing." Is that very good argument? (laughter) These rascals, all these rascals, they avoid. "I am not killing. I am not responsible. My, my, this stick has killed." Just see. If you go to the court: "Sir, I have not killed, my stick has killed." Just see how rascal they are.

Prof. Wolfe: It is a question whether this "Thou shalt not kill" does not also include all our animal brothers and sisters.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Prof. Wolfe: I think it should also include that. Because "Thou shalt not kill" is just not kill creatures, not only men. But apart from that, they do not even follow it where men come in. They kill. They do.

Prabhupāda: I do not follow.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: What is that meditation?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, they meditate for fifteen, twenty minutes... (indistinct) ...I think. You have to pay some money for that.

Hṛdayānanda: They say, they say it will increase your sense gratification, make more money.

Bali Mardana: But they don't, they do not claim any spiritual benefit. It is only material benefit that they claim.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: They why "Transcendental"?

Bali Mardana: Well, it's just a catchy name.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have so many scientific tests like blood tests, the blood, circulation of the blood is improved, the mental condition is improved.

Prabhupāda: That is all material. That has nothing to do with spiritual. Blood is not spiritual. It is material.

Bali Mardana: It may have some material advantage.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Blood is there in the cats and dogs also. That is also circulating.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, actually, transcendental meditation is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but these people are saying that if I compare with a man who is practicing transcendental meditation with a normal man, then... They compare different, these tests, they're called physiological tests.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That physiological test, you can do between man and animal. The animal will be found better. Their circulation of blood is most natural.

Karandhara: Also the state of mind which they claim is beneficial, the same state of mind can be reached more quickly by smoking opium.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: Well.

Bali Mardana: We know from experience.

Karandhara: Yes. Calm state of mind, emitting alpha rays, alpha brain waves. Smoke opium you get the same thing.

Hṛdayānanda: Really? No, the intelligent students all know it's cheating.

Umāpati: They say that's an easy way.

Karandhara: Why not take the easy way?

Prabhupāda: First of all, we have to understand what is meant by transcendental.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: We mean God is great. That's all. There is no need of linguistic analysis. One word is sufficient. God is great.

Karandhara: They would say the psychology of that is that you're suffering from an inferiority complex.

Prabhupāda: Eh. You are inferior. You are being kicked every moment by the laws of nature. How do you claim that you are superior? Why you are covering? Because you are kicked by the laws of material nature.

Umāpati: There's no complex.

Prabhupāda: There is no question... You have to cover yourself.

Bali Mardana: They say that...

Prabhupāda: How do you say you are superior? You are inferior. As soon as you cover your body, you are inferior.

Karandhara: They say, "Well, we, I made this hat. So whatever inferiorities I have, I can conquer them by my intelligence."

Prabhupāda: But that intelligence, superior intelligence will never come to you. You'll always remain inferior.

Hṛdayānanda: What about death?

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are always inferior.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Because He wanted you to remain a fool. He wanted. Because you are atheist, He wanted that you shall remain ever fool. That is God's business. Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān yoniṣu (BG 16.19). These atheistic class, they remain always fools. Kṛṣṇa gives him birth in such a family, in such a country, in such a posi..., that he remains fools. He remains always fool. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Yaśomatīnandana: Prabhupāda, it's like the barber giving opinion on the science of medicine. It's like barber giving opinion on the science of medicine. Because the materialistic person, they claim to be expert of material science, and still, they want to give opinion on the spiritual science.

Prabhupāda: No, no, they are not even expert of material science. They are expert in bluffing others things with jugglery of words. That's it.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: They want that perfection, but they want it with this body and its paraphernalia. They don't want to give this body up.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this body can also be perfect. But you do not know how to make it.

Prajāpati: Devotees are beginning more and more, Śrīla Prabhupāda, under your instruction, to enter into politics. But the political leaders, they will claim, "Well you have no experience. How can you be qualified to...?"

Prabhupāda: No, we have got experience. If there is a good man, he'll do, he'll act very nice. That we have got experience. Just like if a man is honest, you can trust him. This is our experience. So similarly, if the leaders be good according to this standard, then the whole human society will be happy. This is our propaganda. We are not after the post, but we have to disclose this rascaldom, that "All these rascals, animals, fools, they are taking the post of leader, and you are suffering repeatedly, but you have no sense that 'How we can be happy with this Nixon and company's leadership?' " So therefore we want to disclose the fact, that's all. We have no ambition. Just like we are brāhmaṇas. We have nothing to do, but according to Vedic civilization, the brāhmaṇas guides the kṣatriyas how to rule. So our position is to reform the politicians. We are not going to compete with them, we have no business, neither we have time. But because people are suffering—we want everyone to be happy-therefore we want to reform these rascals. That is our goal. What we shall do taking part in politics? We have no business. But our real aim is how people will be happy. That is our real aim. So these rascals are leading, misleading. Therefore we want to check them. Is that all right? Is that all right?

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is Bible. Yes. Here is. Practically nowadays there is no Christian. All heathens. Yes. Because they are... Therefore we are purchasing so many churches. And there are so many for sale. Nobody is going to. In London I have seen. Hundreds of churches are... some neighbor. Nobody goes. Only the churchtaker and the so-called one or two neighboring old women, that's all. So it is gone. Christian religion is now gone.

Yaśomatīnandana: Also, Prabhupāda, Christ never said himself that he's dying for their sins. But this is the later disciples of Christ, they claim that Christ has died for their sins.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? This is the fact?

Prajāpati: That's fact, yes.

Prabhupāda: Just see how they are. They're saying so many things.

Bali Mardana: Cheaters. In Germany since they lost the war everyone has become atheists. In Germany, because they lost the war, they all became atheists.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ, he was in completely tamo-guṇa.

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That's a fact.

Yaśomatīnandana: He claimed himself to be brāhmaṇa. And he was eating meat.

Prabhupāda: No. He never claimed.

Yaśomatīnandana: He never claimed.

Prabhupāda: He never claimed. He said, "You call me brāhmaṇa. That's your... but I, I do not follow anything." He never said that.

Devotee: And Mahatma Gandhi, Prabhupāda, he said Rāma, Rāma, Rāma three times before he died.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So he'll get birth as human being.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, are these astrologers, ah, are, can we believe in them, what they say? Called pseudo-science.

Prabhupāda: No. Astrology is a science. (break) ...that I shall go to the foreign countries and throughout the whole world I will establish so many temples, so many things... this...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So they have some intelligence to tell that...

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is calculation, calculation. This astrologer, this astrologer was a very big astrologer and when I was in service, Dr. Bose's laboratory, so Dr. Bose was treating one patient. He was vomiting blood. So he was treating as tuberculosis. Then he could not cure him after giving all medicine. Then he asked the astrologer, this astrologer who made my horoscope, "What is the matter? Panditji, can you tell?" So he calculated. He said, "You are making wrong treatment. He has got some sore in the throat. It is not heart." And he treated, he was cured.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But what is your superiority. You're a servant now. You're śūdra. You're not even a brāhmaṇa. Superiority by simply explanation will not do. You must be (indistinct). Guṇa, karma, superiority means guṇa, karma. You must have the quality and you must work in that quality. You're a scientist, but after a few generation, a foolish boy in your family say, "We belong to the scientist's family." So what is the use of saying like that? You must become scientist. When you are a scientist then you are superior not by simply... This has killed the Indian, I mean Vedic culture when they began to claim superiority simply by birth without any qualification. That killed the whole civilization.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But I think tradition must be still...

Prabhupāda: But tradition, what is that tradition? Tradition is here, in the proof. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). The reference is given to the quality, guṇa, and karma, and action. How you can simply say that because I'm born in such and such family, therefore I have also the same thing. Because my father was high-court judge, therefore I am high-court judge. Is that very good logic? How you became superior? You have to prove your superiority by your qualification and actual work. This is very nice. The world is accepting like that. Somebody's coming to you to accept some scientific instruction. He accepts you're superior in scientific knowledge, not for your birth, but for your quality and work. That is fact. So you first of all come to the platform of the quality and work, then you claim superior.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: So if they did trust in God, they would not have all these problems today.

Prabhupāda: No. It is factual. Just like in modern... Immediate problem is the petrol. Nobody trusts in God. The Arabians, they're thinking that this oil, "Our oil." But actually, his father has not manufactured this oil. It is God's oil. None of them believe in God, either the Arabians or the others. Therefore there is crisis. It is practical. Is the petrol manufactured by man? So why a section of man is claiming, "It is my petrol"? If somebody says, "It is my Pacific Ocean," what is this nonsense? Because they are going on under this nonsense ideas, therefore there is problem.

Devotee (1): Sometimes they claim the Pacific Ocean as their own.

Prabhupāda: Ah? Ah?

Devotee (1): Some countries claim, you know, twelve, three hundred miles of the ocean is being their ocean.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, three hundred miles, let them claim. But not the oil. (devotees chuckle) If I say "Now the sandy beach, two miles mine," you can say, but what is that talk? (laughs) But it belongs to the government. You can say... A child may come, "Oh, this is my area, you cannot come." (laughter) That is going on. But is that sanity? The father will laugh: "All right, let him, demarcation, this area." So this foolishness is going on. Our philosophy... Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything belongs to God. This is philosophy.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They're United Nation, first of all let us settle. They are fighting: "I'm Arabian," "I'm Indian," "I'm American," "I'm Englishman..." "All right, let us settle actually to whom this planet belongs." They cannot do that, because all of them are thieves. None of them will agree that it belongs to God. The real fact, that they will not agree. Then how there can be peace? Because they're all cheaters. They want to cheat God. God's property, they're claiming "ours." All thieves and rogues, so how there can be any settlement? There cannot be any settlement.

Devotee (1): If we approached them and we said something like that, they would laugh.

Prabhupāda: That's because they're rogues. Against their ideals. "Why you're laughing like fools? Does it belong to you or your father? This whole world? Why you are laughing like a fool?" You should have said like that. "You're laughing not like a gentleman; you're laughing like a fool. Can you say that it belongs to your father? Or you'll be allowed to stay here in America? After some years you'll be kicked out. Do you know where you were going? Why you are laughing like fools?" This should be the answer.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: All these things are sinful. To drink is sinful. Even among the Muhammadans. To smoke, sinful. They have got austerities. Their animal-killing is once in a year. (Hindi) Only animals should be sacrificed in worship. There are so many things. Every religion there is good thing, but then nobody follows. Simply defined, "I'm Christian," "I'm Muhammadan," "I am Hindu..." That's all. He's neither of them. He's simply animal. He's simply animal. Just like these rascal Christian. The first proposition is "Thou shalt not kill," and see they're simply killing, and they're claiming "Christians." Just see. All rascals, and they're claiming, "We're follower of Christian." (break) ...propaganda is to teach all these rascals. Therefore we say general rascals. It may be very strong... That professor was referring, "Yes, everyone is rascal." You know that professor?

Karandhara: Yes. He thought "rascals" was a bit harsh.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa says rascal; therefore...

Yaśomatīnandana: But he... The professor, when he left he said that "Prabhupāda is very, very gentle," he said. He's the most gentle man he's ever seen.

Devotee: Gentle like a rose, and strong like a thunderstorm. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...India. Just start this movement seriously.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: What is his books? They do not believe in books.

Yaśomatīnandana: Still, he puts out a magazine, called "Broadcasting His Glories." And in the magazine he quotes some verses from Bhagavad-gītā. He supports that yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7). So he says that... Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that "I come whenever there is decline of religiosity." So he claims that he is now Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, he accepts authority of Kṛṣṇa.

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes, he says that Kṛṣṇa is God.

Devotee: But now he is Kṛṣṇa. And he wears Kṛṣṇa's crown and he plays Kṛṣṇa's flute. He wears Kṛṣṇa's crown. They give him Kṛṣṇa's crown and he wears it, and he plays Kṛṣṇa's flute. Or he says it is Kṛṣṇa's flute, and he plays it.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, he is making his business with Kṛṣṇa's crown and Kṛṣṇa's flute.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: "So you, why you are simply thinking of Kṛṣṇa, your devotee. You show us. We don't believe you that you are Kṛṣṇa, but if you want us to come to you, you show this. We shall come immediately. Why make it confidential? Make it public. Then we come immediately. This is our condition. But because you do not show it, therefore we know you are a rascal number one. Why shall I come to you?"

Yaśomatīnandana: "If you claim that you are God, then anybody can claim that he is God."

Prabhupāda: "Yes, anybody can claim. But we think you are a rascal. Therefore we do not come. Now, if you can show us something like Kṛṣṇa, then we shall immediately come. Our difficulty will be solved. We shall see Kṛṣṇa. But we know that you are a rascal." You go there. Go there, somebody, and tell like that.

Prajāpati: No. There is one rascal, Prabhupāda, who can do tricks. His name is Sai Baba. He can make jewels appear, give people photographs of himself, give them to people like tricks.

Prabhupāda: But another rascal will be victim of that tricks. Why shall I accept him as God?

Karandhara: Besides, they're insignificant tricks.

Prabhupāda: Insignificant tricks. So if gold is the standard of becoming God, then there is gold mine. So who has created the gold mine, I shall accept Him God. Why shall I you. If gold is the standard, why a little chaṭāka(?) of...? We are not so fools. You can make this trick for other fools, not to us.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But you have taken the knowledge, why cannot you describe it. That means although you have got your Guru Maharaja, still you are in darkness. So what is the use of this Guru Maharaja? You are in darkness because you cannot explain. You're asking me to go to Guru Maharaja. But if you are enlightened, why you cannot explain? Therefore you are in darkness. They are useless as guru. You have not... He's a garu. He's garu.

Yaśomatīnandana: Garu is mad, crazy.

Prajāpati: They claim to see light inside, Śrīla Prabhupāda, but we say, "If we hit you on head, you will see light inside also."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that everyone sees. What is your credit? If I kick on your face, you will find the light. So come here, I shall kick on your face and you'll see the light. (laughter) There is no need of Guru Maha...

Yaśomatīnandana: His disciples are usually very naive and very foolish.

Prabhupāda: Unless they are foolish, how they can go there? Anyone who goes there, that means he is a foolish. That is the test. "A man is known by his company." Because all these rascals and fools go there, therefore he is a fool and rascal. It is concluded.

Morning Walk -- December 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: Therefore, when we hear the words of guru, we are actually hearing Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is said, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. If you please guru, then Kṛṣṇa is pleased because he is saying the same thing. Just like we are... What we are doing? Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). We are saying that "You just surrender to Kṛṣṇa." We are inventing nothing. Therefore I am guru. Because I am saying Kṛṣṇa's words, not my words, therefore I am guru. As soon as I say my words, then I am not guru. This is the significance.

Rūpānuga: You are the only one, Śrīla Prabhupāda, who claims to be servant. The rest of them take Kṛṣṇa's position.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they are not guru. They are not guru. That is the difficulty, that one who is not guru, he is taking the place of guru. Therefore people are misguided.

Rūpānuga: One man who has written a book on these different so-called spiritual movements has remarked that Your Divine Grace is the only one of all... The big difference between our movement and the others is that you claim to be servant, and the others claim to be God.

Prabhupāda: He has written? Oh.

Rūpānuga: It is in a book talking about different spiritual movements in this country.

Prabhupāda: So he has appreciated this?

Rūpānuga: He has made that remark. He has noted that difference.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) Therefore I am unique. Yes. Then I can, become unique. Yes. I am not amongst the rascals.

Morning Walk -- December 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: He has written? Oh.

Rūpānuga: It is in a book talking about different spiritual movements in this country.

Prabhupāda: So he has appreciated this?

Rūpānuga: He has made that remark. He has noted that difference.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) Therefore I am unique. Yes. Then I can, become unique. Yes. I am not amongst the rascals.

Rūpānuga: I tell the students... They ask me how they can distinguish between gurus. I tell them the real guru claims to be servant, and not God. I said only one guru says he is servant. That is Śrīla Prabhupāda. And they can understand that.

Candanācārya: Sincere people will appreciate that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prajāpati: In the early days of this movement, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in New York, devotees said they did not know how to treat Your Divine Grace. They did not know your exalted position. I think we are still very much offensive.

Prabhupāda: No, I am servant. I have no exalted position. Servant. Caitanya Mahāprabhu sat down in a place where people were washing their feet. Yes. (break) ...a representative of Kṛṣṇa. I came to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and Kṛṣṇa has sent so many representatives to help me. I consider like that. Without your help I could not do. So I wanted Kṛṣṇa's help, so Kṛṣṇa has sent you. Therefore you are representative of Kṛṣṇa. That is my conception.

Morning Walk -- December 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But those who have surrendered, they cannot speak anything. They are in darkness. When we talk with your disciple who has surrendered, they cannot argue with us. They are in darkness. So what kind of light he has seen?

Jayatīrtha: It is all just sentimental.

Prajāpati: Many of these bogus groups, Prabhupāda, they claim that God is simply sound and light. So their meditation means seeing what they call ājñā-cakra, or point between eyebrows. They see there and they hear sounds, bells and thunder and flute all within. And that is their meditation. Hearing these sounds and see these lights.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but what do you gain by that?

Prajāpati: Supposedly they go to higher levels of existence, higher levels of consciousness. They change the sound and the colors change...

Prabhupāda: But you cannot give up even smoking. You are in higher level of consciousness? So what is the proof that you are on the higher level of the consciousness? You cannot give up even ordinary things.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh yes, you do it. Do it. That is intelligence. Here is the only systematic way to understand God. You simply try to understand the first verse of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Then everything is explained there. Now you can... I have explained that, what is meant by God. God means the source of everything. Where is that theologician who can deny it? The first proposition is "God is that which is the source of everything." Now the next question will be, "What is that source, animate or inanimate?" Just like the scientists, they are claiming matter. This should be discussed. Then you come to the conclusion, "He must be animate." Then next question is "Wherefrom the animation came?" Then the conclusion should be that "He is self-sufficient. There is no need of cause." Then "Why people cannot understand?" That answer is that "Even great, great personality like Brahmā, Indra, they also bewildered." In this way, everything is there in that verse, systematical. Yatra tri-sargo 'mṛṣā. Now this material world is also creation of God, but it is shadow; it is not reality. The reality is where there is no illusion, and that is spiritual kingdom. That is the place of God. Everything is there in that verse in the beginning. And then next verse is, the so-called religions, they are kicked out from this Bhāgavatam. The religion is God is great and everyone should worship Him. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsara...(SB 1.1.2). And it is meant for the first-class non-envious person. One who is envious, he will think, "Oh, why shall I worship God?" He cannot. One who is non-envious, he understands that "God is great always. I am always subordinate. Therefore I must worship." This is... In systematic way you discuss. "I must worship. Because I am dependent. I am not final authority. So the great... God is great, and I am always small. So it is my duty to submit to the great." So that is bhakti. So you can discuss in a systematic way. Bhāgavata is there. There is no difficulty.

Page Title:Claim (Conversations 1968 - 1973)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:17 of Feb, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=108, Let=0
No. of Quotes:108