Prabhupāda: "Oh, these boys are... These Kṛṣṇa conscious men are very nice. They do not smoke. They do not drink. They have no illicit sex life. They do not kill for satisfy the tongue. They are satisfied with natural food. And their behavior is very good." Who will deny it? And the other asset they cannot estimate, that how much he is in contact with Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme. That, they have no estimating power, but at least they will appreciate these external features. One clergyman, when I was going to Hawaii, he was talking with me. He said, "Swamiji, I have seen your disciples have a very nice face, glowing face." And "Yes, certainly. They must be. They are making spiritual progress." So it is not difficult. It is very easy. If you take to this, you have everything sublime and your life becomes sublime. You haven't got to give up anything. The material needs are there, eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That is not disallowed, but adjusted for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We cannot allow eating, mating, like animals, cats and dogs. No. That is not possible. You'll eat, you'll mate, but just like human being, civilized man. Then what is the distinction between animal and man if we behave like animals? Kṛṣṇa, God, is pure. So if you keep yourself in impure condition of life, then how you can make progress towards purity, highest perfection, purity? Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). In the Tenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā Arjuna is accepting Kṛṣṇa that "You are the purest of all." If you are going to reach the purest of all, how you can remain impure? This tapasya... This voluntary restraint means tapasya. Tapasya, there is a Sanskrit word, tapasya. Tapasya means voluntarily restraining or accepting some suffering condition. That is not actually suffering condition. Just like a patient. A doctor says, "You cannot take it." So he has the desire to take it, but doctor says that "you cannot take it." Therefore he mentally thinks that "Doctor has restricted this. I am suffering." Actually he is curing, but he thinks that "I am suffering." And when he's cured, he sees, "Oh, doctor is good friend. He told me not to indulge in this. Now I have done it. I am now cured." So tapasya means voluntarily one has to accept some so-called suffering. That is required to make advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, voluntarily acceptance, some so-called suffering.
Civilized man (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"civilized human being"
|"civilized man"
|"civilized men"
|"civilized people"
|"civilized person"
|"civilized persons"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: But it has come into use. Real, I mean to say, cultural institution is called varṇāśrama, four varṇas and four āśramas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatri, vaiśya, śūdra—these four varṇas—and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. So according to Vedic concept of life, unless people take to this system or institution, institute of varṇa and āśrama, four varṇas and four āśramas, actually he does not become a civilized human being. This... One has to take this process, four divisions of varṇas and four..., four divisions of social order and four divisions of spiritual order. That is called varṇāśrama. So India's culture is based on these four, eight system, varṇa and āśrama.
Prof. Kotovsky: Varnāśrama.
Prabhupāda: Varṇa, varṇāśrama. And in the Bhagavad-gītā—perhaps you have read Bhagavad-gītā—there is also the statement, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ (BG 4.13). It is... This system is created originally by Viṣṇu. So as everything is creation of the Supreme, they cannot be changed. That is a prevalent everywhere, that a... Sun. Sun is creation of the Supreme. So sunshine is here in America, in Russia, in India—everywhere. Similarly, this varṇāśrama system is prevalent everywhere in some form or other. Just like the brāhmaṇas. The brāhmaṇas means the most intelligent class of men, brain, brain of the society. Then the kṣatriyas, the administrator class. Then the vaiśyas, the productive class, and the śūdras, the worker class. These four classes of men are everywhere present in different names. And because it is creation by the original creator, so it is prevalent everywhere, varṇāśrama-dharma. (break) So have you seen this little, how we are translating this? You can see little. Original śloka, its transliteration, then its English equivalent, then translation, then purport, each and every verse is being done like that, whole Bhāgavatam Purāṇa.
Prabhupāda: No. Even the... Just like the birds and beast, they are also increasing their population. Yes. If you find one hole in the room, millions of ants will come out. So who is giving their food? There are millions of elephants in the forest. Who is giving their food? There are millions and trillions... There are 8,400,000 species of life. Out of that, eight million species are other than human being, and 400,000 species human being. Out of that, civilized persons are very few. And all the problems are in the civilized, so-called civilized population.
Guest: And that's because, you would say that we have the wrong...
Prabhupāda: No, I, I... We are believer in God. You see. So we know God is the original father. He is supplying maintenance for everyone. So there is no question of increasing population. If there is increase of population, God has enough resources to feed them. It is not the question of increasing population. But what is the question of demonic civilization.
Journalist (1): Well, I was going to ask you about that, civilization.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That demonic civilization is creating problems. Not the increase of population. This is not the fact. Now, so far I have studied, that in America, in Africa, in Australia, there are so much vacant places that the present population of the world, if it is increased ten times, still there is enough food...
Journalist (1): And you think there's enough food.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Because the animals, they cannot. I cannot preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy amongst the animals, because their consciousness is not so developed. But still, my movement is so perfect that I can do well even to the cats and dogs—by offering prasādam, by giving him chance to hear Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. This vibration is transcendental. When it is chanted it is good for everyone, all living entities. Therefore we go to the street and chant so that everyone can hear the transcendental vibration.
So if it is accepted that religion means the law of God... Is that accepted? Now we have to study what are the special laws of God and what is the nature of God. That is divine search. So from Bhagavad-gītā we understand the nature of God, that he is the supreme father. Is there any objection? God is the supreme father. I think in Christian religion also they accept. Is it not? Now, the supreme father says that all living entities, not only these human being or the civilized human being but even the animals, the trees, plants, the insects, birds, beasts, fishes or other aquatics—any living entity, even a small insect. Living entity means who has got that vital force of moving. Some of them are not moving also, just like trees. They do not move, but still they are living entity. So from Bhagavad-gītā we understand that all living entities, irrespective of bodily feature, they are sons of God. What do you think of this conception?
Guest (1): I think it's probably... I think it's probably a better and more universal...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): ...notion of life than..., than you have in the somewhat more man-centered Western philosophy of...
Prabhupāda: That is defective.
Prabhupāda: That's all. People after sense gratification. A diseased man, who cannot digest, if he thinks that "I shall eat this, I shall eat that, I shall eat that," but actually he cannot digest. Eating this or that, how it will help him? (laughs) If you have lost your digesting power, then if you change, "I eat this, I shall eat that," that will not help you. So the modern civilized man, he has lost the point how he can be happy. He is simply changing the program of sense gratification. That's all.
Ian Polsen: Becoming more and more desperate.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes. He has no other idea. Just like here in this material world the highest pleasure is sex life, so they are changing, different types of sex life, that's all. (break)
(break) We want to see that you are lover of God. God is one. God is neither Hindu nor Muslim nor Christian. So we want to see that you love God, that is all. That is our mission. You have forget... (break) ...understand little Bengali?
Guest: Oh, yes.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Buddhist Monk (1): They interpret that they have, the God has created the cattle also for their food.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But that is... The cattle food is food for the non-civilized man. If you claim to be civilized, you cannot eat.
Buddhist Monk (1): (laughs) Live and let live. That's what I have been asking people wherever I go. They talk of culture, civilization, progress, development, living standards, education, equality, freedom, lots of things. I asked them to define this, and I asked them, "The animals are of two types: the carnivorous and the vegetarian. Of course, the carnivorous looks even fiercer. But where has one found in the forest so many thousands of animals slaughtered and lying at random? But man today, in the name of progress and civilization..."
Prabhupāda: Very, very good. Yes.
Buddhist Monk (1): Yeah. So they have gone, according to me, lower than our animal brothers.
Prabhupāda: Certainly, certainly. Your argument is very good.
Buddhist Monk (1): Of course, it's very very...
Prabhupāda: In the forest, there is no slaughterhouse, although they are carnivorous animals.
Buddhist Monk (1): Is the only way.
Prabhupāda: So you give... Yes. That is the... The only difference is that in human form of life you can awaken your Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the animal form... Here we are sitting with all human form of life, gentlemen, civilized men. I cannot call cats and dogs and sit here, and to understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is not possible. Therefore this opportunity should be given. This opportunity should be given. And especially, you are English nation, recognized, great nation, respectful, you are respected... Especially in India, we have got very good respect for English nation. We had connection for so many years. And the politicians, they spoiled. Otherwise, the, I, we liked the British Empire, means unity of the human being all over the world. That can be revived again. That can be revived again. If you come to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, your Queen comes to that,... There is process. There is process. You can revive your British Empire. It is not story. If you people take little advice from me, I can help you. Yes. You are intelligent nation. So kindly do this service to the students and awaken their dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It will be a great service. And we are meant for helping you all. So you can inquire. You are at liberty to come at any time and inquire.
David Lawrence: You give an audience.
Prabhupāda: You question.
Haṁsadūta: Purport: "This is the duty of everyone to mold his life in such a way that he will not forget Kṛṣṇa in any circumstance. Everyone has to work for maintenance of his body and soul together, and Kṛṣṇa recommends herein that one should work for Him. Everyone has to eat something to live. Therefore he should accept the remnants of foodstuffs offered to Kṛṣṇa. Any civilized man has to perform some religious..."
Prabhupāda: "You give Me." "Whatever you eat, you give Me," Kṛṣṇa says.
Haṁsadūta: "Any civilized man has to perform some religious ritualistic ceremonies. Therefore Kṛṣṇa recommends..."
Haṁsadūta: This is vaidikī.
Haṁsadūta: "...Do it for Me."
Yogeśvara: Vaidikī.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: "...and this is called arcanā. Everyone has a tendency to give something in charity. Kṛṣṇa says: 'Give it to Me.' And this means that all surplus money accumulated should be utilized in furthering the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Nowadays people are very much inclined to the meditational process, which is not practical in this age. But if anyone practices meditating on Kṛṣṇa twenty-four hours by chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra around his beads, he is surely, he is surely the greatest yogi, as substantiated by the Sixth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā."
Prabhupāda:
- yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke
- sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ
- yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij
- janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-karaḥ
- (SB 10.84.13)
Go-kharaḥ. Go means cow, and kharaḥ means ass. Those who are living life, the bodily concept of life, they're simply go-kharaḥ, just like cows and asses. So, at the present moment, it is a civilization of go-kharaḥ. They may be proud, advanced, civilized man, but the śāstra says that "You are all asses and cows." And we speak on the basis of śāstra. Don't be angry upon... We see all the cows and asses. (break)
- aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ
- prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase
- gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca
- nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ
- (BG 2.11)
"You are talking like a very nice, learned scholar, but no learned man talks like this." That means "You are a fool." (laughter) He's friend, so He's talking very mildly that "You are, you are trying to talk like a learned scholar, but actually no learned scholar speaks like this." That means, "You are a fool."
Prabhupāda: So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to educate people to understand the value of life. The modern system of education and civilization is so degraded that people have forgotten the value of life. Generally, in this material world everyone is forgetful of the value of life, but the human form of life is a chance to awaken the importance of life. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is stated, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long one is not awakened to the consciousness of self-realization, the foolish living entity, whatever he is doing is defeat for him. This defeat is going on in the lower species of life because they cannot understand what is the value of life. Their consciousness is not advanced. But even in the human form of life, the same defeat prolongs, that is not very good civilization. That is almost animal civilization. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca samānyā etat paśubhir narāṇām. If people are simply engaged in the four principles of bodily demands-eating, sleeping, mating and defending—that is visible in animal life also, so that is not very advancement of civilization. So our attempt Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to educate people to come to the responsibility of human life. This is our Vedic civilization. The problem of life is not the difficulties for a few years of this duration of life. The real problem of life is how to solve the repetition of birth, death, old age and disease. That is the instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). People are embarrassed with so many problems of life, but the real problem of life is how to stop birth, death, old age and disease. So people are callous. They have become so dull-headed that they do not understand the problem of life. Long, long ago when Viśvāmitra Muni saw Mahārāja Daśaratha, so Mahārāja Daśaratha inquired from the Viśvāmitra Muni, aihistaṁ yat taṁ punar janma jayaya (?): "My dear sir, the attempt that you are trying to conquer over death, how that business is going on nicely? Is there any interruption?" So this is our Vedic civilization, how to conquer over birth, death, old age and disease. But at the modern time there is no such information, neither anybody is interested. Even big, big professors, they do not know what is there after life. They do not believe even that there is life after death. So this is a blind civilization going on. We are trying our bit to educate them that the aim of life, especially in the human form of life, is different from the bodily necessities of life: eating, sleeping, mating and defending. In the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye: (BG 7.3) "Out of many millions of persons, one may attempt to become successful in his life." Siddhaye, siddhi. This is siddhi, how to conquer over birth, death, old age and disease. And manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye. The modern civilized man is so dull, he does not know what is siddhi. They think that "If I get some money and one bungalow and one car, that is siddhi."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
- tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer
- bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi
- yatra kva vābhadram abhūd amuṣya kiṁ
- ko vārtha āpto 'bhajatāṁ sva-dharmataḥ
- (SB 1.5.17)
Tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ hareḥ. Just like many of our disciples, as a matter of civilized man they should have remained at home, obedient to the parents, get married and live peacefully with father and mother. Of course, European, American boys, they do not do that. But it is expected that should be like that. Just like yourself. You should have lived with your father. He also. But you did not do this. So take it for granted, out of sentiment, you took to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tyaktvā sva-dharmam. To live family life, peaceful life, obedient life to the fathers and mothers, this is called sva-dharma. So one gives up this sva-dharma, tyaktvā sva-dharmam, and takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness gone... Not many, a few. So Bhāgavata says, yatra kva vābhadram abhūd amuṣya kim: "What is the wrong there?" Even if he has fallen down, half-way, still there is no wrong. He has gained something. That much service which he has already given to Kṛṣṇa, that is recorded. That is recorded. That is to his credit: "So this living entity has given service." But other men, he's very honestly living as a good citizen, as a good family member and good brāhmaṇa, good kṣatriya... So ko vārtha āpto 'bhajatāṁ sva-dharmataḥ. He's sticking to his own principle of life, but he's not a Kṛṣṇa conscious devotee. Then what is his gain?
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is human life. Your choice, make your choice, which way. Again death or deathlessness. Stop death from you. This is human life. The karmīs, jñānīs, yogis, they're trying for death. There will be death. But for the bhaktas, devotees, there is deathlessness. Punar janma jayāya. For conquering over next birth. Rascal civilized man does not know what is next life, how death can be stopped. Nothing else. Big, big scholars of Bhagavad-gītā, they do not understand. The so-called scholars, they do not understand. These things are there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Yad gatvā na nivartante (BG 15.6). They do not understand. They say, "What is this?" They do not understand. (break)
Bali Mardana: ...people could not enjoy so much in this life, they worry more about the next life.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Bali Mardana: When people realize they cannot enjoy so much in this life, they worry more about what is going to happen to them in the next life.
Prabhupāda: No, how does... They do not know what is next life?
Bali Mardana: They don't know.
Prabhupāda: They make it zero. Therefore, closing the eye. "There is no next life. Finished. There is no next life." In that way they're satisfied. Just like the rabbit. There is danger, enemy, he closes his eyes. He thinks there is no danger. (devotees laugh) So these rascals are like that. Because they cannot accommodate that this life is so troublesome, again, next life... So that they can realize. Next life means again troublesome; that's why they sometimes commit suicide. They think that after suicide it will be zero, so no trouble. These are all ignorance.
Prabhupāda: Go-kharaḥ, go-kharaḥ. That is in Bhāgavata. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhiḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma idya-dhīḥ (SB 10.84.13). You give him that śloka, (indistinct). So actually at the present moment the whole world is full of go-kharaḥ, that's all, animals. Everyone thinks in terms—"I am this body," that's all. He is not human being, but every so-called civilized man is thinking like that. So where is the civilization of human being? All go-kharaḥs, animals. (break) ...because if you keep all these ingredients, life will come. Is it not?
Pañcadraviḍa: When the soul is entering, they are all complete?
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. If you keep... A man is dead, and keep his body. So it will decompose, but the life will come. So many worms will come. So these are... If you say that chemicals, these material, then the chemicals are there, and life is coming. Now you take this chemical and prepare. You cannot say, "Although these chemicals are there, there is some deficiency. Therefore the life is not coming." No, why do you say like that? Life is coming. That man is not coming, but the life is coming. So these are ingredients for life. You prepare. You bring that man. Still, the rascal will say that life is made from matter. Not even gentlemen, what to speak of becoming scientist? You prepare. "No, in future we shall see." And he is getting Nobel Prize. Just see how the human society has become full of rascals, go-kharaḥ. They cannot prove; still they will insist, "Yes." And so far God is concerned, we learn from śāstra that God's two energies are working like heat and light. So energies are working, we can see. How these mangoes have come unless there is some energy? So therefore the energy is working. Therefore God is there. Just like as soon as light is there, although we are in the room we can understand that sunlight is there. As soon as the darkness is there, we understand that there is no more sun. So in the presence of energy... Just like in the motor car, before starting, you round the key, and it becomes, "Gut, gut, gut, gut." Now your current is there. The energy is there. So there are symptoms. By symptoms we can understand there is God.
Prabhupāda: No, karma is there. That is another point. My point is that any condition, one can live locally. That is my point. They are supposed to be uncivilized, and they live in the ice cottage. There is no sufficient things for eating. And how they live? That is the point. So why civilized man cannot live locally?
Satsvarūpa: One objection to that is that they say that now cultures have been spread more by all this transportation. You even write that the world is now like a global village. But if everyone just stays in their own place, they won't know what people and culture is like in other parts of the world, and their view will be more narrow.
Prabhupāda: No. They may go sometimes. Just like in India, they used to live locally, but at the same time they used to go to the pilgrimages by walking. It is not prohibited that one should not go out, but when one goes out, he goes out of pleasure, not as obligation. At the present moment, it has become an obligation, that one must go out of his home, of his village, of his country. That is defective. There was no need of so many transports. People remained locally. One has to go for livelihood hundred miles. This is defective.
Dhanañjaya: But people say they travel for education.
Prabhupāda: What education? Hippies? Your education has ended into hippies. Finish that education, nonsense education. Now, you have seen in Harmonist that the school children, they are having sex intercourse publicly, and they are running naked in America. Is it not?
Satsvarūpa: Yes It's a very big thing now, running naked.
Prabhupāda: No, there is no question of extended. You keep yourself in a limited solution. And then, when it is appreciated it will be automatically extended. You don't touch the extended. You become ideal civilized man. Others will follow.
Yogeśvara: Well, for example, ultimately, we want to live locally. These cities are not necessary.
Prabhupāda: No, you make the best use of a bad bargain. We shall depend more... Just like in New Vrindaban. They are coming to the city for preaching. So not absolutely we can abstain immediately because we have been dependent so long, many, many lives. You cannot. But the ideal should be introduced gradually. And make it perfect more and more and more and more. But there is possibility. Possibility if you live locally and make your arrangement, you get your foods... The real necessity is, bodily necessity is, eating, sleeping, mating and defending. This is necessity. So if you can eat locally, you can sleep locally, you can have your sex life also locally and you can defend locally, then what is the wrong? These are the necessities. We are not stopping this. We are not stopping, "No more sex life." That is nonsense, another nonsense. You must have. Marry. That's all. So you can marry locally and live. Where is the difficulty? Defend. If somebody comes to attack, there must be men to defend. And eating and sleeping. Where is your difficulty? Manage locally, as far as possible. After all, these are the necessities of body. So it can be solved locally. Is it impossible? To solve the bodily necessities? What do you think? Is it impossible?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. The hippies' philosophy is that "After all, we have to enjoy sense. So we are getting free, freedom. We can have sense enjoyment, sex life on the street. Why shall I work for the same purpose? We have already got it. You civilized man, you so-called civilized, advanced civilized man, for your sex life, you have to go to the skyscraper building, and we can do it on the street, on the park. We have got better facilities. Why shall I accept your philosophy." They will say, they say like that. (break) ...agree to the fact that they have no knowledge. Everything they are doing whimsically without any purpose. (break) ...from their side. You have to find out, make research.
Satsvarūpa: I know the communists are very much agitated by our activities, the young people that Haihaya is talking about. They say that we are working for the old order by our simply chanting.
Dhanañjaya: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we have to go back. I don't know why, but this part here is all closed in. (break)
Haihaya: Even one brahmacārī in Argentina. Because they didn't like us very much. They think that we are like the religion that we want to alienate the people.
Satsvarūpa: But we will take people's minds off the fact that they should be fighting for economic rights. We say, "That's not so important. You should become God conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious." And then the people... Just like Marx said, "Religion is the opium of the people." They think we're just pacifying people, when actually everyone should becoming agitated for equal rights. So when they see us...
Prabhupāda: Yes. We recommend the meat-eaters who eat dogs, as Korea, they're eating dogs, so you can eat also dog. But don't... You eat it. After death. We don't say don't eat. You are so much fond of eating. All right. You eat. Because after the death, we have to give somebody, some living entity. So generally, it is given to the vultures. So why to the vultures? Take the civilized men, who are as good as vultures. (laughter) The so-called civilized men. Yes. What is the difference between the vultures and these rascals? The vultures also enjoy a dead body. And they also kill, make it dead and enjoy. They're vultures.
Yogeśvara: Śakuni.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Śakuni, yes. They're vultures, and their civilization is vulture-eater. The animal-eaters, they're like jackals, vultures, dogs. They're similar to these animals, the animal-eaters. It is not human food. Here is human food. Here is civilized food, human food. Let them learn it. Uncivilized, rudes, vultures, rākṣasas, and they're leaders. Therefore, I say all fourth-class men, they are leaders. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition. We require first-class men to lead. We are first-class men. Take our advice, and then everything will be all right. We are creating first-class men. What is the use of fourth-class men leading? All fourth-class men. If I say so frankly, people will be very angry. All fourth-class men. Basically, they're all fourth-class men. Now, these first, second, third-class men are described. So at the present moment, no one belongs to this qualification. Even they are not to the third-class men. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). Who is, who is protecting the cows? That is the third-class man's business. So therefore everyone is fourth-class. So the fourth-class men, they are electing their representative to govern. They are also on the big fourth-class men. That is stated in the Bhāgavata, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). Where is that verse? Find out. All fourth-class men. Not fourth-class, less than fourth-class. Fourth-class has got also some regulative duty. But at the present moment, no regulative duty. Anyone can do whatever he likes, whatever he thinks. All fifth-class, sixth-class men. No regulative principle.
Pater Emmanuel: And Kṛṣṇa cannot give the same permission for the animals?
Prabhupāda: Yes, the animal kingdom in the nature's way... Just like the grass is the food of the cow, and the cow is the food for man, but not for civilized man, religious man. The crude man. (German) (break) The perfect human being is described: śamo damas titikṣā ārjavam. Find out. (break) ...killing of animals and child, Christ's name. Then it will be perfect. I have not come to teach you, but to request you that your Christian religion prohibit this and encourages chanting of name of the Lord. So you kindly do it, that's all. (German)
Pater Emmanuel: Thank you.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. We are also chanting Christ or Kṛṣṇa, the same thing. So let us join to together and chant. If you have got objection to chant Kṛṣṇa, you chant Christ or Christo. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktis tatrārpitā niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ. He says that God has got many multi names. Any one of them you chant because each and every name has the same potency as God the person, because His name and He, there is no difference. And if we become designationless, if we give up these titles, "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," and simply chant God's name, then we become on the spiritual platform immediately, without any discrimination that "Here is Hindu, here is Muslim, here is Christian, here is white, here is black," that. We are preaching that human form of life is meant for God realization or to learn how to love God. That is real business of human being. So either do it as a Christian or as a Muslim or as a Hindu, it doesn't matter. But do this business. (German)
Prabhupāda: ...has got this body of a tree and one has got the body of human being, demigod. So the reason is kāraṇam, kāraṇam means reason, guṇa-saṅgo 'sya, as he is infecting the modes of material nature. Infection. If we infect some choleric diarrhea, we suffer. Nature's law is. Therefore human being should be cautious not to infect. Just like educated man or civilized man, he is cautious not to infect some kind of contaminated disease. Similarly, human form of body with higher consciousness is there just to remain always cautious not to infect material, I mean, modes of nature. And that is devotional service.
- māṁ ca avyabhicāreṇa
- bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate
- sa guṇān samatītyaitan
- brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
- (BG 14.26)
"One who is always engaged in My service without any deviation..." Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Devotee: Haribol, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Haribol.
Devotee: Say Haribol, Prabhupāda (talking to child).
Prabhupāda: Oh, he has got beads? or what...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, so that he'll not live for two thousand years. Then the bluff cannot be shown. Violation is not possible, sir. That is not possible. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). You are trying to violate, but here are the four principles. It is not possible. You cannot violate. There is death; you cannot violate this. As soon as the time will come, you must die. Finished, all your scientific research. Four millions, trillions, and you can say, at that time there was no civilized man. At that time man was dying and animal was dying. And at this time man is dying and animal is dying. So what improvement you have made? There is no improvement.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is also called tampering.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Tampering with the machinery of God. They try to manipulate in a different way so that they can get some deviation from the normal.
Prabhupāda: There is no deviation. (Śrīla Prabhupāda apparently gets into car.)
Devotees: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)
Morning Walk at Marine del Rey -- July 13, 1974, Los Angeles
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: And in the record album he has given this picture. So you are intelligent girl, you study about this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That will benefit you. The anthropology you may get some degree, adoration. What is the benefit? Jaya. (Carol leaves) They enquire why I have come to the West. If I enquire that two thousand year ago you have been taught that "Thou shall not kill," and your business is only to kill. I have come to enquire from you, "What is your answer?" How you have become civilized, that you cannot accept one instruction of Jesus Christ. And you are declaring yourself as Christian and civilized. This is my question. Answer it. In two thousand years, first of all you began killing Christ. Never mind, still, two thousand years past, you could not stop killing? You could not accept the first instruction. What kind of civilized man?
Jayadharma: Sometimes they say, Prabhupāda, that Jesus meant just...
Prabhupāda: Meant?
Jayadharma: ...just human beings.
Prabhupāda: All right. That means you are killer of human beings. THat means, in the beginning, you are all killers of human beings. And therefore you killed Jesus Christ. That is not very good qualification. Killer of human being... He said "Thou shall not kill." Where he says that "Thou shall not kill human beings"? That is your interpretation.
Śrutakīrti: That's obvious he meant only human beings, because he himself was killing animals.
Prabhupāda: Christ was killing animals?
Śrutakīrti: Well, he instructed his own disciples to distribute the fish. So he was also involved in killing of animals.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but he said that the fuits and vegetable should be your flesh. What is that?
Śrutakīrti: Well, that was before Christ. He never said that.
Prabhupāda: Everything is true. If you think it properly, you'll find it is all true. Bhagavad-gītā says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ: (BG 4.13) "By Me, the four divisions of human society are made." The most intelligent class, the brāhmaṇa, who knows the soul, God, etc., by their character, by their behavior. That is brāhmaṇa class. This is the most perfect way of keeping society. Unless there is a class which is very intelligent who know what is God, what is soul, then what is the civilization? Simply motorcar drivers? Is that civilization? Where is the brāhmaṇa? This is not civilization. Simply some artisans and workers, motorcar drivers, mill workers, where is civilized man, who knows God, who knows soul, who knows how to conduct the human society to the perfection? Where is that man? It is not civilization.
Paramahaṁsa: But we have philosophers and poets.
Prabhupāda: They are all loafer class. They have no information of the soul. They are studying in the dead matter, that's all. Freud and others, Darwin. What do they know?
Amogha: There are also so many priests and rabbis, the Pope.
Prabhupāda: But what do they know about the soul, about God? First thing is that there is a supreme authority. You are not independent. So if you do not know who is that supreme authority, what is the value of your knowledge? You have to accept there is a supreme authority, because you are not independent. But you do not know. Just like a rascal, he does not know about the government. What kind of man he is? He's a rascal. A civilized man means he knows what is government, what is the history of government. That is civilized. And if he doesn't know what is government, he is simply living there, he's a third class man. So you have to accept there is a government of the whole universal affair, but you do not know it. Then you are third-class man. You are not human being; you are animal. Animal does not know. This is the proof that you are animal, you are not human being. A human being, at least a class of man there must be—brāhmaṇa. Brāhma jānāti iti brāhmaṇaḥ, one who knows how things are going on. We know that. We Kṛṣṇa conscious people, we know. Therefore we are civilized.
Gaṇeśa: The Bhagavad-gītā was written five thousand years ago, so it doesn't pertain to today.
Prabhupāda: No, it was not written. It was there. Then you do not read Bhagavad-gītā. Why you are speaking like that? You know Bhagavad-gītā? You have not studied Bhagavad-gītā. That is a disgrace for you. You have read Bhagavad-gītā?
Gaṇeśa: A little.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Amogha: He says yes, a little.
Prabhupāda: No, total human being, 400,000 species. Altogether, 8,400,000 species of living entities. So these are coming, evolution, by the laws of nature. You cannot stop it. The laws of nature, you cannot interfere. In this way we come to the human form of body, and especially civilized human being. Supposedly, it is the Aryans. The Aryan family, they are the topmost civilized group amongst the living entities. Now, in this life one has to enquire about himself that what is the difference between me and the dog? Why I am claiming a better position than the dog? What is the difference? The difference is that a human being, if he endeavors, he can understand his real constitutional position and he can understand God also. God. Therefore in the human society, civilized human society, there is some sort of religious system. It does not matter whether it is Hindu religion, Muslim religion, Christian religion, or Buddha religion. There is some religion in the civilized human society.
Journalist: Civil what, sir?
Prabhupāda: In the civilized human society there is some system of religion. So that system of religion means try to understand God. Religion means the law given by God. So civilized human beings, they are trying to understand God and His laws. That is called religion. Now the difference between dog and me is that I can try to understand what is God, what is my position; the dog cannot understand. Dog means the animals. They cannot understand. So that is the difference between a human being and a dog. If we give up religion or the method to understand God and our relationship with Him, then we will remain dog. Then we remain dog. We are not human being. So at the present moment the so-called human society, civilized human society, is giving up the conception of God, understanding God, especially the Communist party. They are openly declaring that "We don't believe in God." But those who are not Communists, they, lip sympathy, they say that "Yes, we believe in God," but actually they do not believe.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bali-mardana: ...but they do not know.
Prabhupāda: These people, they do not understand. What kind of civilized men they are? Less than a child, and they are proud of their science. (break)
Devotee: They're trying to catch some fish.
Paramahaṁsa: What are they doing?
Devotee: They're fishing.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Devotee: Crabs. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...fisherman. They keep this side open and this side covered. Front side covered, back side open. (end)
Satsvarūpa: The psychologist says that the real responsibility is to enjoy sex life and that, in that way, we are...
Prabhupāda: But that hog also enjoys. Then what is the difference between you and hog? The hog enjoys unrestrictedly. The cats and dogs also enjoy. So what is the benefit of becoming human being, civilized man? That enjoyment is there in the hog's life in a better way. You have got some discrimination, "Here is my sister, here is my mother, here is my daughter," but there is no such distinction. You enjoy life and become a hog, and that is waiting for you, next life. There is no law of raping amongst the hogs and dogs. They can capture any female. But in the human society why there is restriction? So hogs and dogs are better enjoying sex life. You become hog and dog. Why civilized man?
Kuruśreṣṭha: When we tell them that, they think, "Oh, that's very nice."
Prabhupāda: You are waiting for getting that life. Wait a few years more. You will get that life. Yes.
Brahmatīrtha: One scientist recently did a study on mosquitoes. They found out that all mosquitoes do is have sex and eat. And he was lamenting, he said, "Oh, these mosquitoes..."
Prabhupāda: Sex and eat.
Brahmatīrtha: That's all they do. He was amazed that they have so much sex life, mosquitoes. So then the scientist he was lamenting. He was thinking, "Oh, these mosquitoes, they probably do not enjoy the sex life." And he sounded as if he wished he was a mosquito to find out.
Prabhupāda: They are missing the aim of life. That is the... The aim of life is, an..., not according to Vedic, but anyone, the aim of life is how to realize God. That is aim. In the animal life or in other lives less important than the human being there is no question of God realization. In the human life, the civilized human life, there is religion. It doesn't matter whether one is Christian or a Hindu or a Muslim or a Buddhist. These are the principle religions of the world. So any civilized man must be inquisitive to know what is the original source of everything. That philosophy is there. It is called Brahma-sūtra or Vedānta-sūtra. Perhaps you have heard the name, Vedānta philosophy. Veda means knowledge, and anta means end. In the materialistic way of knowledge they did not find any end, and they accept it "That this is progress." But one must come to the end of the knowledge, what is the ultimate knowledge. So generally they are missing what is the ultimate knowledge. We are searching after knowledge in so many ways but what is the ultimate knowledge? The ultimate knowledge, Vedānta, means end of knowledge. End of knowledge means to understand the original source of everything. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The human inquisitiveness should be up to that point, what is the origin of everything. Because human life is not a spot. That... The western people are lacking that understanding. We are thinking that this duration of life, say, for fifty to a hundred years, that is all. No. That is the first instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, that this body is not everything. We have to accept another body after death. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). As we are accepting different bodies in our this span of life from childhood to boyhood, from boyhood to youthhood, from youthhood to old age... So this is the example. And after this old age, after this body is useless, then I accept another body. And again another chapter of life begins. And on my next life, next body I am creating, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya, infection. Just like if I infect some disease, I am creating that disease. If I infect smallpox disease, then I must develop that disease. How it is, subtle way, working, that we cannot see. But if somewhere I have infected some disease, somewhere it will be manifest. It will manifest. You cannot check it. So in this material world there are three qualities: goodness, passion, and ignorance. So as we associate, we develop a type of body. So these crimes means they do not get good association.
Prabhupāda: That you can see practically. They are not drunkards, they are not meat-eaters. From physiological point of view, they are very clean. They will never be attacked with so many diseases. Then they do not eat meat, means that is the most sinful, to kill others for the satisfaction of the tongue. God has given to the human society so many things to eat: nice fruits, nice flowers, nice grains, first-class milk. And from milk, you can prepare hundreds of nutritious foods. But they do not know the art. They are maintaining big, big slaughterhouse and eating meat. No discrimination. That means they are not even civilized. When man is not civilized, he kills one animal and eats because he does not know how to grow food. Just like we have got one farm land, in New Vrindaban. So we are preparing so first-class preparation from milk, the neighbours they come, they are astonished that from milk such nice preparation can be done, hundreds. So that means they are not even civilized, how to prepare nutritious food from milk. Milk-accepting that cow flesh and blood is very nutritious, that we also admit—but a civilized man utilizes the blood and meat in a different way. The milk is nothing but blood. But it is transformed into milk. And again, from milk you make so many things. You make yogurt, you make curd, you make ghee, so many things. And combination of these milk products with grains, with fruits and vegetables, you make similar hundreds of preparation. So this is civilized life, not that directly kill one animal and eat. That is uncivilized life. You take the-accepting that cow's flesh and blood is very nutritious—you take it in a civilized way. Why you should kill? It is innocent animal. Is simply eating grass given by God and supplying milk. And from milk you can live. And the gratefulness is that cut his throat? Is that civilization? What do you say?
Sandy Nixon: No, I agree a hundred percent. I want you to say these things, though, instead of me. I'm asking you questions so that hopefully that not by me describing anything...
Prabhupāda: So these things are uncivilized way of life, and what they will understand God? That is not possible.
Sandy Nixon: I'm asking these questions for others, of course, a field(?) that is not understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: To understand God means one must be first-class civilized man. Just like university is meant for first-class student, similarly, God consciousness means meant for the first-class human being.
Sandy Nixon: O.K. This question's a hard one for me to ask because it shows ignorance on my part. But I'm not asking it in ignorance. I want your answer on tape, O.K.? Does all desire ultimately have to go, including the desire to attain Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you will have simply rubbish desires. And when you are Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you desire rightly.
Sandy Nixon: The aim of many spiritual paths is to find the guru within.
Prabhupāda: Within?
Sandy Nixon: The guru within. Is this different...?
Prabhupāda: Who says that, to find guru within?
Sandy Nixon: Um...
Jayatīrtha: Kirpal Singh, he's one person who says that.
Prabhupāda: Then what is this nonsense problem? So far eating, sleeping, even the birds and beasts, they have no problem. They are eating, sleeping. What is this problem in eating, sleeping and mating? There is no problem. Why you are creating problem? You are creating problem, rascal. There is no problem. Where is the... Out of 8,400,000 species, only men are 400,000. Eight million they are all lower animals. Where is their problem? They have no population problem, they have no food problem, no quarter problem. They do not go to office, they do not start factories. So where is their problem? Eight millions, they have no problem. And out of the 400,000, the so-called rascal civilized men, they have problems. Others they have no problem. They don't require a scientist rascal like you. (laughter) This is the... Tell them like this. If you take vox populi, so out of eight million four hundred, eight millions do not require a rascal like you. And out of the so-called civilized men, a few only, they require your service. So what is the value of your service? Others, they have no problem. Do you think they have problem, the birds and beasts? They are very freely walking from one tree to another and eating. Whatever fruits are there, they are eating. And the for mating, the female bird is always with him. Nature has given, when the birth is taken place, one male, one female, cats, dogs and birds. So there is no problem. Is there any problem?
Brahmānanda: No.
Prabhupāda: Then why these rascals create problem? And become a big scientist and draw a good salary, fatty salary, that's all. (break) He has invented hydrogen bomb, but does it mean the war is taking place every day? Say, after twenty years, fifty years, war will, then his service will be appreciated, by the time he will die.
Prabhupāda: One must eat something. The nature's law is that sahastānā... Sahastānām ahastāni. And catuṣ-padam. That is the arrangement by nature's way, that animals, they have no hands. So the primitive life, so they become food for the primitive natives or uncivilized man. They kill some animals and eat. And why civilized man do so? He can produce his food. God has given him land. He has intelligence. Just like our temple commander was telling us. He has got immense opportunity... Just explain to them about you are producing with the farm.
Nityānanda: We have a farm and we are producing all kinds of foodstuffs for men and animals.
Prabhupāda: This is our product, to produce for the animal, (indistinct). So the animal eats it and he gives you milk. He's not eating (indistinct). He gives you the nicest food, full of vitamins. And you can prepare from milk hundreds and thousands of so many palatable things. That is civilization. And this is not civilization: "Because cow is so potential, so let me eat the cow." "Guru is so sattvic, spiritual; let me eat guru. Then I will be..." (laughter) This is philosophy. Cow is so full of vitamin, valuable. But civilization is that "Why should you eat the animal? Take the milk." What is this milk? Milk is nothing but the blood. So civilization means let the cow live, and you take the milk, which is nothing but blood. When the mother feeds the child with milk, wherefrom the milk comes? Milk comes from the blood of the mother. Therefore the mother is supplied nutritious food so that she can produce milk for the child. Similarly, cow is mother. What is this philosophy, "Kill the mothers and eat?" "Kill the child and eat?" What is this nonsense? Such crude things are going on in the name of civilization. You are manufacturing billion motor cars, and you cannot manufacture your food? God has given you so much land. This is not civilization. Civilization is how to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is civilization. One should be intelligent enough. Education must be directed in that way. But they do not know. Actually, they do not know it, that "My aim of life is how to go home, back to home, back to Godhead. That they do not know it. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). These rascals are trying to adjust things here materially and becoming more complicated, killing father, mother, and child even. (break) This is not civilization.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Reformation means restriction. Civilized means restriction. Aryan means restriction. That is civilized life. Unrestricted life means cats and dogs. Laws are meant for restriction, and they are meant for the human society, not for the cats and dogs. Why the legislative assembly is there? Why the cars are going right or left? It is meant for the civilized person, not for the cats and dogs. So civilization means restriction. A dog can have sex life on the street, but you cannot have. That is restriction because you are civilized. Civilized means restriction. The more you restrict, more you become civilized. Otherwise you remain animal.
Brahmānanda: They say that these things are simply external.
Prabhupāda: External, but you are animal. (laughs) You cannot understand. You see. Mūḍha. "External." Why external? You violate the laws of nature; immediately you'll be punished. Why external? You infect some disease; you'll be immediately punished. Why external? It is the law of nature. You must have to follow; otherwise you'll be punished. You have got experience. If you touch fire... (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. If you touch fire, then it must burn. Why? Can you restrict the fire? Similarly, laws of nature is so strict, as soon as you violate... Laws of nature means God's nature.
Brahmānanda: But by our technology we will change the laws of nature.
Prabhupāda: No, you can go on.
Faill: Do you think we're going to come right, then? Is that a possible question? Or is it just far too many people now who are purely in the body and in the world of the senses? Is the world going to come around?
Prabhupāda: They are in darkness. Therefore this movement is very important to take the civilized man from the darkness because everyone is thinking, "I am this body." So long we are in this bodily conception of our life, we are no better than animal. The animal, they keep themselves always in bodily conception: "I am dog," "I am cat," "I am cow," "I am this." If we also keep in that platform, then where is the difference between dog and me?
Faill: There is none then.
Prabhupāda: The dog is barking. He is thinking, "I am dog. I am appointed here as watchman, watchdog, and as soon as somebody is passing, 'Yow! Gow! Gow!' " So, and similarly, if I keep myself in the dog mentality and act like that—"Why you have come to this country? Why you have come to my jurisdiction?" the same dog mentality.
Faill: Is it vital to follow certain eating habits? I mean...
Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole process is how to purify ourself. So by... according to eating, the purification also... I think Mr. Bernard Shaw, he wrote one book that "You Are What You Eat." And that's a fact. We constitute our bodily atmosphere and mental atmosphere according to eating. So our Kṛṣṇa conscious movement recommends... Not the movement recommends. It is recommended in the śāstra that to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, you eat the remnants of foodstuff left by Kṛṣṇa. Just like opposite way: if a tuberculosis patient eats something and if you eat the remnants, then you will be infected with the tuberculosis bacillus. Is it not? So similarly, if you eat kṛṣṇa-prasādam, then you infect Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is our process. We don't take anything directly. We offer to Kṛṣṇa. Then we take kṛṣṇa-prasādam. That helps us. We do not take anything... We cannot take anything from the restaurant or from the shop. No. We prepare everything, offer to Kṛṣṇa. Then we take.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, actually Darwin said that there's a missing link.
Prabhupāda: You rascal, you say that. What is that missing link? Simply bluffing, and it is going on in the name of science. Just see the fun. Simply misleading, and people are so rascal, this civilized man, so-called, he is accepting as great theory.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Accepting?
Prabhupāda: This Darwin's theory as very big invention or discovery. Simply childish rascaldom. There is no reason; there is no sense. Man came from monkey—why not coming now? Stop once. So what kind of men came first?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: First there was very primitive man.
Prabhupāda: No, primitive…
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They think that he resembles a monkey very much.
Prabhupāda: So there are in Africa these men. They resemble that, what is called? That animal?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Gorilla.
Prabhupāda: Gorilla. So these men are still existing. But why from gorilla they do not come?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They don’t come from the gorilla.
Prabhupāda: Secular means no religion.
Dr. Patel: Irreligious rather than. No religion is also something good. But something other than religion.
Prabhupāda: You may call anything, but there is no religion. Dharmena hina paśubhiḥ samanaḥ. They are animals, that's all. The modern civilized man is nothing but an animal-dressed animal, two-legged animal. The animals are four-legged, and these animals are two-legged, that's all. Or big animal. (break)...varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. The leaders of this modern civilization, they are being praised by other animals. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ (SB 2.3.19). Śva means dog and...
Dr. Patel: Kharāḥ means asses.
Prabhupāda: Śva-viḍ... Viḍ-varāha means hogs, and uṣṭra means camel, and kharaḥ means gadha, ass. So these leaders are being praised by these animals: dogs, hogs, camels, and asses. And they are thinking they are very big men. What is the value of prayers offered by dogs, hogs, asses and camels? The general people are dogs, hogs, camels. I think you have read. I have explained how they are camel, how they are dog, how they are hog, and how they are ass. I have explained this.
Yaśomatīnandana: That's the Second Canto.
Prabhupāda: No...
Dr. Patel: And the physics, chemistry, biology, science...
Prabhupāda: Rāvaṇa was the greatest civilized man, but he is considered as rākṣasa.
Dr. Patel: But we are not Rāvaṇas, are we? We are Vaiśeṣikas.
Prabhupāda: No, anyone.
Dr. Patel: We are scientists, Vaiśeṣika scientists. We may not be bhakta scientists, but Vaiśeṣika scientists.
Prabhupāda: Bhakta is the only scientist. All others rascals.
Dr. Patel: That you may say, but, well... We are also bhakta.
Prabhupāda: That we don't say. Kṛṣṇa says, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15).
Dr. Patel: But who? Those who are not...
Prabhupāda: These rascals. All these rascals.
Dr. Patel: Those who are not in search of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: One who has not understood Kṛṣṇa, they are all māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. He may be Vaiśeṣika, kanaḍa, paramānuvada, māyāvāda. There are so... I know these.
Prabhupāda: They were, they were belonging to the Aryan family. The Europeans, they were also Aryan family, and Indians, the Arabians, Persians, they were all Aryan family. And the Americans they also migrated from Europe. They are also Aryans. But that is familywise. But actually Aryan means one who is advanced in civilization. That is Aryan. Therefore when Kṛṣṇa chastised Arjuna, He addressed him, "non-Aryan." "You are not talking like Aryan." Anārya juṣṭam. "You are talking like non-Aryan." (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So Aryan means advanced. The first-class civilized men are the Aryans. So that standard of Aryan civilization is to understand God, Viṣṇu, and go back to. This is perfectional. Yato vā imani (indistinct) bhūtāni jayante. To understand it. And again return back to Him. The modern civilization, they are completely unaware of God, neither they know it that going back to home, back to Godhead, is perfection of civilization. This is the defect.
Dr. Patel: They say, sir, that the Aryan civilization, cradle of Aryan civilization near the North Pole, is somewhere in Russia. From there they started transmigrating. People went to Europe, from there to America, then south down to Iran, and then to India and all that. When they have such extreme cold they were able to civilize themselves to that extent.
Prabhupāda: Hm? We don't say.
Dr. Patel: The Eskimos are not able to do it.
Prabhupāda: No. Civilization means they must live in a nice place like India. That is civilization. The America in those days, they were neglecting. Nobody was living there. Gradually they advanced. Otherwise these tracts of land were rejected.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise even a devotee like Bhārata Mahārāja, he had to accept the body of a deer. A little careless. Then nature's law will act. Hm? If you do not become cautious and if you infect the smallpox disease, you have to suffer. Therefore a civilized man takes process, caution, "Oh there is smallpox disease, I shall not go there. Or if I go there, I must take vaccine." This is human civilization, caution. And if you are animal, you do not know. So human life means not animal life. Very reasonable, very cautious, educated, cultured, that is human life. Not animal life. Drink like animal, or eat like animal, have sex life like animal. Freedom, animal has got all freedom. So that freedom is not allowed to the human beings. That is civilization. The same example. The animal has got freedom and you'll see in Indian market, vegetable market, some cow comes and eats, takes so many vegetables and eats, but he's not going to the court. But if you take one small piece of chili without, then you'll go to the court. So therefore, law is meant for human beings, not for the animals. Those who want to be free, they are animals. So-called freedom means animalism. That is not humanism. Humanism means to follow the rules and regulations and the laws, and then he is human being. Because law is meant for the human being, not for the animals. And when you come out from your home, immediately the law is keep to the right. And if you violate, immediately you go to the law. But a dog, he doesn't care. If you say, "A dog does not obey this law," that is no excuse. You are human being. If you don't obey then you go to jail. So many animals are on the street naked, they're having sex life, naked. You do, immediately you'll be prosecuted. Why? Because you are a human being. You have to restrain. Even if you like. Just like the Hawaii University students, "What is the wrong to become a dog?" So if you think like that then you become a dog, nature is ready to give you a dog's body. That is (Sanskrit). He's thinking, "The dog's life is very nice. This liberation of sex life on the street." "Alright, you take dog's body." Yaṁ yaṁ vā... Bhāvam... ah, what is that?
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: The best class of men, the Aryans, and they were worshiping a tribal chief! And what was Arjuna? He was also a tribal chief? Arjuna said that "I become Your disciple." So what was he, that he is submitting to a tribal chief? Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ tvāṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). And He's teaching Bhagavad-gītā?
Lokanātha: Which is being read after five thousand years.
Prabhupāda: And still, they cannot assimilate it, so much, so-called civilized men, they cannot understand even the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), that there is transmigration of the soul, these rascals. And who is tribal chief?
Haṁsadūta: Just to master the language takes twelve years.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: What to speak of understanding the content.
Jayapatākā: (break) ...exhibit the farce of modern science.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Jayapatākā: Farce of modern science, and every philosophy and science group, where they are just cheating the public. Then exhibit how Kṛṣṇa consciousness is showing the real way.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So do that in this planetarium.
Pañca-draviḍa: That will be very nice.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He has to work sincerely to serve Kṛṣṇa. Then everything is there.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even he doesn't consider material necessity?
Prabhupāda: Where is material necessity? Even for the cats and dogs, there is no material necessities. It is all supplied by Kṛṣṇa. It is simply māyā that "I am in material necessities." There are eight million lower species of life. Who is doing business for his...? We, simply civilized men, we are doing this. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa is supplying everyone. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He supplies everything. Even the ant within the hole of your room, are you giving any food?
Devotees: No.
Prabhupāda: Then how he's living? And the elephant in the forest of Africa. Who is going to give them food? How they're living? From the elephant to the ant, He's providing, and He cannot provide you. This is all mistaken idea. You haven't got to ask. Everything is there. Because in the.... (break) ...accustomed to sense gratification life after life, we are habituated to ask. That is a habit. "Habit is the second nature." Actually, we don't require. These dogs, they are not asking, going to the church for asking, "God, give us our daily bread." Where he is getting bread? (break) Dogs are enjoying, but they are not asking bread from God. And where they are getting? (bird chirping in background.) (break) ...how he's chirping so nicely. But he has no anxiety. He knows that "I'll get my food anywhere. That's all right." The bird has got the sense, confidence: "Yes, I'll get." And that's a fact.
Guru-kṛpā: They're living day to day.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Prabhupāda: Tamo-guṇa is laziness. It is ass. Neither fire. Ignorance. Civilized man, they're working, making some material arrangement nice. That is mode of passion. But the uncivilized, he doesn't want to work. Just like this Hawaii was under the Hawaiians' control, they could not do anything. Ignorant, lazy. Tamo-guṇa, darkness, is no work, no reason. Simply like animals, sex-life. And rajo-guṇa, there is activity to create material facilities. And sattva-guṇa, "Why you are working? What is the aim of my life?" That is sattva-guṇa.
Devotee (3): So it's better to be in the mode of passion than the mode of ignorance?
Prabhupāda: Eh? No. We have to come to the mode of goodness. That is wanted. Neither passion nor ignorance. But passion is better than ignorance. That is comparative. But best quality in this material world is goodness. When knowledge is sufficient. And beyond that, śuddha-sattva. Here in this material world even goodness is disturbed sometimes by passion and ignorance. But the platform where no more disturbance by all these three qualities, that is śuddha-sattva. That is spiritual. Devotees are expected to remain on that platform, śuddha-sattva, pure goodness. Then they will not be disturbed by these three qualities.
Prabhupāda: Just like a child had..., has faith in his parents. So that is not an artificial thing, that is fact. And parents are trustworthy to the child. There is no doubt of..., by nature. So, similarly, why could..., you should be in trust in God? Why blindly? Why not trust with knowledge? And that is our movement. Every civilized person has got some faith in God. But now, they're advanced, they should understand what is God, why you must have faith in Him. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Reporter: It's a matter of education...
Prabhupāda: Simply faith, blind faith we do not endure. And therefore they are becoming godless. And gradually, if we do not understand factually what is God, then the whole human civilization will be godless. To become godless means again animal. That is the difference between animal and man. In the animal society there is no question of religion, faith, God. These things are not there. The human civilization, if it becomes like that, without any faith in God, without any understanding of God, then where is the difference between cats and dogs and human beings? They must know God scientifically. That is the actual aim of human life. Suppose the dog is sleeping on the street without any care whether a car is coming and smash it. He's also sleeping sound sleep. And we are sleeping in a very nice apartment. So after all, sleeping. And he is also enjoying sleeping, I am also enjoying sleeping. So do you think to change the, I mean to say, circumstances of the sleeping? I am sleeping in a very nice apartment, he's sleeping on the floor. Does it mean this is advancement of civilization? Sleeping is sleeping. Eating is eating. Sex life—the male dog is enjoying with female dog. The sex pleasure is to him, and we are enjoying with a beautiful lover. The sex pleasure is the same. Therefore, you take some eatable, either on gold fork or an iron fork, the taste is the same. Simply like putting the foodstuff in the golden fork, does it mean the taste has changed? So, the test of eating, sleeping, mating and defending is the same for the human being as well as the animals. What difference, what is the difference between the animals and humans? The animal cannot know God. That is not possible. The human being can know. That is the opportunity of this human life. If we are missing that opportunity, then we are leading an animal civilization. This is not civilization. Animal life is not civilization. Civilized means not animal life. Something more than that. That is God consciousness.
Prabhupāda: No, now people are civilized. It is.... But they want to do it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are thinking. So...
Prabhupāda: But on the garb of civilized person it looks odd. Especially in America when religious freedom is there. Otherwise they would have done. (break).... real peace formula, anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's rascal. This is very revolting. "Because I am not Kṛṣṇa con..., because I am a rascal?" "Yes." (laughter)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, they don't like that.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) This is too much.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even you were challenging their gurus. That they get very angry at. Sataji will always tell me, "I like your Prabhupāda very much. But he is always criticizing all of our gurus."
Rāmeśvara: Like Ramakrishna and this cheater magician.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "He calls them cheaters, rascals, rogues, in public." At all the pāṇḍāls you used to do that. Oh, they couldn't stand it.
Hari-śauri: That man that stopped me in the street...
Prabhupāda: What can I say? Kṛṣṇa says. I am simply a child, repeating the words of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: It is not possible that, because, at the present moment the number of educated persons, there are many. Many Ph.D.'s, D.H.C.'s but nobody understands it. You cannot expect a fair number of persons understanding it. It requires little higher brain. But even some percent of the population understands this philosophy, then there will be peace and prosperity. Not that everyone. Just like in my body, not that every part of my body is brain. But if the brain is in order, then other parts of the body will act nicely. The leg is not brain, but if the brain is in order, the leg will move nicely. The difficulty is there is no brain. So without brain, without head, when the body moves it is ghost. So it is ghostly civilization. All ghosts. There is a kind of ghost, perhaps you know, that without head. If a man is chopped of his head, and if he has got attraction, then he becomes a ghost without head. So at the present moment, all these so-called educated civilized men are ghosts without head. You now this, there is some ghosts without head?
Jayādvaita: I hadn't heard about them.
Prabhupāda: No, in India they know. And I have described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Hari-śauri: They're depicted like that quite often in Europe, because they used to have the guillotine chopping the head off.
Prabhupāda: A ghost without head, yes, there is a ghost. So at the present moment, without head ghost. A civilization of ghosts, without brain. It is something revolutionary. Something revolutionary, but this is a fact.
Kathy Kerr: Are you doing anything to try and contact people, the educated men, to...
Prabhupāda: Why you sticking to the Hindu religion? Any Hindu will accept Bhagavad-gītā and Kṛṣṇa. So why not ask them to take Kṛṣṇa? Why so-called Hinduism? Who is a Hindu who will deny the authority of Kṛṣṇa? Is he a Hindu? Every Hindu observes Janmāṣṭamī, the birthday of Kṛṣṇa. So why do they not take Kṛṣṇa's advice and remain practically Hindu? They will not take advice of Kṛṣṇa, and they, how they can claim to be Hindu?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So can all people have an equal interest in religion despite their different classifications?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That I have already explained, that any human civilized man, he has got some religion. So religion, basic principle of religion is with reference to God. So here is God, What God says, if you take that system, then it will be perfect, not only for the Hindus, for Christian, for Mohammedans, for everyone. And that is being practically done in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We have got devotees from all groups of human society and they are taking to it. It is practical. There is no difficulty. So Hindus, Muslims, Christian, everyone take to this Kṛṣṇa religion, Kṛṣṇite. Kṛṣṇian. (laughter) Not Christian, but Kṛṣṇian. The word christo is also a Greek word. From this christo the Christ has come. So instead of c-h-r-i, k-r-i, the same thing. Christian or Kṛṣṇian, or Christian. Krishta is also another broken, I mean, another spelling of Kṛṣṇa. In India, if one's name is Kṛṣṇa, we say Krishta. My younger brother, his name was Kṛṣṇa. So we were calling him Krishta. So Krishta, Christian. So actually, if we take the root meaning, Christian means Krishnian or Krishtian. So that is a controversial point, but everyone can take to Kṛṣṇa. Then everything will be settled up. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam... (BG 18.66). Make everything clear.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Would you like to go on, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: And what was the age of the girl?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: About twelve. So I have personal experience. Especially in the upper part of this park, about Eighty, Ninetieth, Hundredth Street, there it's very dangerous. Where we are on Fifty-ninth street, it's not very dangerous. And on the east side down here it's not that dangerous.
Prabhupāda: Just see these black men living in such a highly rich country, and civilized men, but their nature is not changed. Angara satatau tena(?), but they can be changed only in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. No other way. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā... (SB 2.4.18).
Bali-mardana: Fifty-ninth Street.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is a good location. This building is for sale.
Prabhupāda: This is that Vedic om or something like that?
Hari-śauri: I think so. It says "Om eternal."
Bali-mardana: Yes.
Prabhupāda: The om word is used in English?
Bali-mardana: Om is very popular in English language for a long time. When they think of mystical things, they think of om. The English, originally because they were in India, they thought to imitate some Indian words.
Prabhupāda: Many Indian words have been introduced in dictionary. And many English words is also introduced. That is natural. (break)
Prabhupāda: Very good, but I could not digest them. That is my fault, but, oh, it was so nice palatable. Chick peas, chick peas, grow fresh. Eat very nicely, keep strong, drink milk, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bas. Don't depend on this outside work and then gradually become debauch, thief, rogues, prostitutes. Is that civilization? They cannot imagine that the modern civilization can go without all these things. Do they not? Slaughterhouse, brothel, cheating, diplomacy, roguery, drinking—without this, no civilization. We are quite opposed. We want to show it is possible, yes. You can stop all this nonsense and still you go on as a perfect civilized man. With character, knowledge, satisfaction, everything. They are trying to gather knowledge by sending so many machines up to date. We have already got. We say you cannot go there, you are simply wasting your time. We have got so much knowledge. No, you can attempt, just like a monkey, that's all right. But our verdict is already there. You cannot go there. Ten years before I said this moon excursion is simply childish and waste of money in my Easy Journey to Other Planets. I am not a scientist, but how I dared to say? Because I know, I have got full knowledge. That is the difference. Without becoming scientist, we can give our verdict. Veda-pramāṇam. (Prabhupāda is eating) Umm, better give this fresh fruit. Don't bring all rotten. In the market you cannot get fresh. All three hundred years old. Anything fresh, that is full of vitamin. Grow fresh, take fresh. In India there is no system to purchase three-hundred-years-old bread and eat. It must be freshly made. Wife is preparing in the simple oven, husband is eating, children are eating. You know Yaśodāmāyī calling Kṛṣṇa? "Come back! Your father is waiting!" You remember this? That is Indian system. The father and the children, they sit down, mother will bring fresh dāl, rice and cāpāṭi, and distribute, and they eat. We used to do that. Along with father we shall sit down for eating, separately. There was no need of table-on the ground. And mother will distribute, cook. No servant; mother personally, wife personally.
Prabhupāda: No. Therefore you are not human being, you are animal. If you cannot produce your food, uncivilized animals, they cannot produce their food. But you are given the chance of becoming human being, if you cannot produce your food, if you do not know how to cook food, how to offer it, then you are not human being. You are animal. When the uncivilized man in the jungle, they did not know how to produce food, they used to kill animals. So if you want to remain in the same uncivilized status of life, then where you are human being? You have got greater intelligence, you produce your food. Why should you kill animal like the uncivilized jungle men? Your action is just like jungle man, and you are claiming to be civilized man.
Nava-yauvana: They are thinking that they are the proprietor.
Prabhupāda: That is their folly, they are not proprietor. They are not proprietor. That is already discussed. Proprietor is the Supreme Lord; you are not proprietor. That is another point. Falsely you are claiming proprietor. How you are proprietor? Everyone can claim proprietor, that is going on. Everyone is claiming proprietor and they are fighting. That is going on. And if you accept God is proprietor and we are dependent on Him, then there is no fight. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā, this īśa, īśāvāsyam verse is perfectly describing, tena tyaktena, you are not proprietor. You accept things what the proprietor has given you, allotted for you. You are not proprietor. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Do not encroach upon others. Then how you become proprietor? We are falsely claiming proprietorship, we are encroaching upon others' independence. This is our business. How there can be peace? It is not possible. This property is walled, that property is walled. You cannot encroach on the other side of the wall. Then it is criminal, trespassing. The government's duty is to see that nobody's encroaching on others.
Prabhupāda: No, whatever it may be. Knowledge is knowledge. It may be Indian or American. It doesn't matter. Just like university. Some student from India go to university in America to study higher knowledge. So that means that because he has gone to America, that is American knowledge. Knowledge is knowledge. So they should take on this background, but they are thinking that we are spoiling their children, brainwashing, controlling the mind, because against their principle, against their uncivilized way of life: meat-eating, illicit sex, intoxication. This is uncivilized life. Why a man, civilized man, shall eat meat? He can prepare so many nice things. He has learned how to produce food, food grains. When they are uncivilized—there is no food; they do not know how to grow food—they can eat animal in the jungle. But if after becoming civilized, if you are eating the same thing, then what is the difference between civilization and not civilization? You have learned. And especially in your America you can get all nice foodstuff. You have got sufficient grains, sufficient fruits, sufficient vegetables, sufficient... Everything sufficient. Why you should eat meat? This is uncivilized life. They could not give up the uncivilized way of life. And when you teach that "You become civilized. Give up this all nonsense. Don't eat." "Oh, it is brainwashing." You see? We are teaching them to become civilized, and they are taking it brainwashing.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Sewers activity's all abominable.
Dr. Patel: But this idea of eating a fetus is extremely abominable. You can't think of it. I mean a baby having developed, we can't imagine.
Prabhupāda: But you must know it. (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: ...makes the way Western civilized people kill, we simply shudder at the very idea. Others, they're not able to, I mean, bear the sight of meat.
Prabhupāda: Our men, those who are not educated, they are better than the... That people may call superstition, but if they are going by the old superstition they would have... I have seen in, sometimes in 1945 or '46, in a train one village girl was sitting and covering. She's young girl, going to her husband's house. What is that? Kane.
Dr. Patel: Gomath, gangath.(?)
Prabhupāda: No no. Kane. After... Because formerly the girls were married early. So after getting puberty there is one ceremony, it is called diti-abhi-bha.(?) Another ceremony. And then she goes to her husband's house. So she was going there with presentation of father, mother. So she was covered. So another young girl, up-to-date, she was doing like this. They were girls. One can touch another. So once, twice. When it made thrice, that village girl slapped her, "Hut!" I said, "Yes, you have done right." She was thinking, the city girl was thinking, "What is this nonsense?" She wanted to criticize... (laughs)
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: "Jesus... Jesus had to speak to rascals and fools like you. Therefore he did not speak." This is the argument. "Because you are such a fool that Jesus said, 'Thou shall not kill'—your first business was to kill him. So you are so nice, advanced men. Now, what he'll speak to you? He knew that you are all rascals. Even the one word you cannot understand, 'Thou shall not kill.' So what you will understand? Therefore Jesus Christ did not say." Give them this answer. Jesus Christ was perfect, but because you are rascals, he did not say, because you could not understand even his one word. You are so intelligent. His commandment is "Thou shall not kill," but your business is to kill him first. How far you are advanced and civilized, just imagine. And you want perfect instruction. You cannot follow even one instruction. That is your position. In this way try to understand. "Jesus had to deal with rascals like you. Therefore he... Even ordinary moral principles, you could not, what to speak of other things." Actually that is the fact. Actually that is the fact. He had to deal with rascals and fools. Is that civilization, that first of all argue, "Thou shall not kill"? That means you were all rascals engaged in killing business. Is that civilized men? Why he said like that? Is that very good philosophy? Mean they were so low class that they had to be stopped first of all, these sinful activities. That also, they could not. This is their position. And for the last two thousand years they could not. Such nice brain. They could not understand even one instruction of Jesus Christ. And you are proud of becoming Christian, rascals. "You do not know what is Christianity, what is Jesus Christ. You are all rascals." Tell them like that. What do you think?
Rāmeśvara: That's indefeatable, undefeatable argument.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Animal. Why cow? Any animal.
- nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād
- bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano 'bhirāmāt
- ka uttamaśloka-guṇānuvādāt
- pumān virajyeta vinā paśughnāt
- (SB 10.1.4)
Unless one is animal-killer, everyone welcomes God. This very word is used, vinā paśughnāt. Excepting these persons who are animal killers, everyone will welcome Kṛṣṇa. It is so nasty thing, animal-killing. So you require thoroughly to be washed. Then you'll understand. Actually it is brainwashing. Civilized man, in the presence of so many nice grains, fruits, flowers, vegetables, milk, so many things, and you are eating meat like the man in the jungle? Are you civilized? Does it mean that the fruit, flowers and grains is meant for animals? It is meant for human beings. You do not know how to utilize it. You are in the state of the animals. You kill animals and eat. Don't claim that you are civilized. Therefore your brain requires to be thoroughly washed to become civilized. Therefore your brain requires to be thoroughly washed to become civilized, Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then talk of civilization. Therefore Jesus Christ first of all requested you "Don't kill." That is also brainwash, cleanse your brain. But you could not take the brainwash. Your brain is congested with so much dirty things that you could not take the instruction of Jesus Christ, and you claim to be Christian. Be ashamed. Don't come forward. Be ashamed. You have no shame even. You are so—what is called?—fool that you do not know what is defective. What is that English proverb? "Fools rush in where angels dare not." You are such a fool that you are running in to obstruct Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which is...
Prabhupāda: No... Vedic process is that unless you create nice children or you can give them protection from death, don't create children. Brahmacārī. Remain brahmacārī. That is sensible, that "Why shall I beget children like cats and dogs if I cannot take care of them properly?" That is very gentlemanly. What is this? I create and kill? Most uncivilized. Don't create. That is civilized man. "If I cannot take care of them properly, I'll not create children."
Gargamuni: They're not educating the population in brahmācārya.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gargamuni: Therefore these beggars are there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is gentlemanly, that "Why shall I take responsibility of family if I cannot maintain them properly?" That is very gentlemanly. That is civilization. "And I accept so-called family for sense gratification; I cannot maintain them and kill them"—what is this? Is that civilization? They should be ashamed to be called civilized men. Here is civilized way. Preach this because the Vedic civilization is real civilization. "You are not civilized. You have killed Jesus Christ who instructed, 'Thou shall not kill.' So you should be ashamed of your present civilization. It is... Brainwash is required."
Gargamuni: (laughs) Say that, yes. We're brainwashing, washing their brain.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And all these rubbish things we are finishing. "Yes, it is brainwashing, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), cleansing the core of the heart, all mistaken ideas." Speak in the court like that. "And see how we are being appreciated by scholarly section. Here is our book. Read if you have got time and see the opinion. It is really brainwashing, but for the good. Everything requires cleansing—for good. If bad impression, bad ideas, are washed, why do you protest? Let it be done. Give us freedom. It is brainwashing, but for the good, washing for good. Just like you wash your cloth. Do you think it is bad? Dirty cloth, if it is washed nicely with soap and water, who will protest against that? 'Oh, why you are cleansing your dirty clothes?' That is another foolishness. Everyone, every gentleman, every civilized man, washes his clothes with soap and water to become more refreshed. So we are giving this civilization... Actually it is brainwashing, but for the good. And see our example. The boys and girls whom you are charging, 'Brainwash,' just see after brainwashing, how gentleman they have become. They have become moralist. They have become God conscious. They are clean outwardly. Their fooding is so innocent and so nutritious. So why do you check it? Bring your plate and our plate. Now judge. Which is better? You taste. Halavā, puri, samosa, kachori, vegetable—one plate; and boiled meat with salt and black pepper... So taste now which is better."
Hari-śauri: But for a hog, halavā...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: A hog would rather eat stool.
Prabhupāda: And bring that also: "Before the hog, you give him stool and halavā; he will prefer to take the stool." So let it be extremely exposed. We are fighting. Let them be exposed. What is the wrong there?
Prabhupāda: Arabs. Vast desert we saw, passing. Huge stack of sand. How they are living there?
Hari-śauri: Certainly not for a civilized man.
Prabhupāda: This stove is ours?
Hari-śauri: It's Gargamuni's... (break)
Prabhupāda: Just imagine what kind of astrologer. The modern astrologers, they cannot foretell like that, neither they can believe that it is possible.
Satsvarūpa: (reading) "The real qualification is to become a devotee of the Lord, and gradually all the good qualities worthy of possession developed. Mahārāja Parīkṣit was a mahā-bhāgavata, or a first-class devotee, who was not only well versed in the science of devotion but also able to convert others to become devotees by his transcendental instructions. Mahārāja Parīkṣit was, therefore, a devotee of the first order, and thus he used to consult great sages and learned brāhmaṇas who could advise him by the śāstras how to execute the state administration."
Prabhupāda: So who is going to do that? All these... All rogues and thieves, drunkards and fourth-class character, meat-eaters, they are the government. How you can expect good government for the benefit of the people? This is Kali-yuga. Unfortunately we have on the heads of government all men of the low-grade character. You... Your President?
Prabhupāda: They all bokā, rejected. Let them become happy in their own way. (break) But because I talk with everyone, they are...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What will be the difference between the Vṛndāvana gurukula and this gurukula?
Prabhupāda: Nothing. The same thing. (break) Civilized man. "Beware of Dog." "Keep aloof, private place."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fearful.
Prabhupāda: And just see result. Cannot believe in faith(?). Human being. And dogs are so trained... You have not seen the dog. It is within the house. You're passing, they'll bark, unnaturally disturbing. You cannot peacefully walk on the street.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes they attack people.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They do not like people should walk on the street.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And neither you can, because their stool is everywhere.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Strewn all over.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And if you tell them to walk..., curb the dog, they get very angry: "Oh, you have insulted me." They demand that you respect their dog.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you ask him to take care of his dog, he feels insulted.
Prabhupāda: Kṣīṇe puṇye punar martya-lokaṁ viśanti, that from higher planets, they fall down with water, and then again, like bubbles, begins from water, life. As the water dries up, then vegetables, and then... Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa... Then moving animals and ants, reptiles. In this way, birds, beast, then four-legged animals, then uncivilized man, then civilized man with Vedic knowledge, then God realization. This is the process.
Bharadvāja: Very wonderful, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We have this evolution in our second exhibit. We want to show that in the beginning the Lord was there, and that by His energy the universe is created and all the different elements are evolved by His glance.
Prabhupāda: Yes, everything is generated from His energy. He is original cause of two energies, material and spiritual. Therefore He is the original cause.
Bharadvāja: In the second part we're also showing that the Lord, out of His infinite kindness and mercy, has created the material world so that the living entities can be corrected.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a chance to come to understanding.
Bharadvāja: We also have a diorama here of Isaac Newton showing the model of the universe to his friend, and his friend says, "Oh, such a brilliant thing, such a wonderful model. Who has made this?" And he says, "Nobody. It just appeared here." And he makes his point that if such a small thing has taken so much intelligence and skill, then what to speak of the great universe that we see before us? How could it have come from nothing?
| Page Title: | Civilized man (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 25 of Dec, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=58, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 58 |