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City (Conversations 1977)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Hari-śauri: I think in the West they have a law that says you can't use human sewage.

Prabhupāda: Kick out the West. We are doing here, in India. The municipality is doing that also in Vṛndāvana. Everywhere it is. In Calcutta there is called dhāpāra māṭha. Dhāpāra māṭha, formerly, anything produced in dhāpāra māṭha, that was not used for Deity. The superstition that "These vegetables are grown in filthy water, nasty..." But the vegetables were-cauliflower so big, so big. Everything, very luxuriantly, very tasteful and solid and big... Dhāpāra māṭhera (Bengali). They used to take. In Bengal, generally, the land is very fertile to produce vegetables. But this, the more the filthy things of the city were thrown there, and the cultivator used to grow very nice... That is utilization of this filthy water where there was sewer ditches formerly. In the village they diverted from the water in the field, and they got good crops. Generally they pass stool in the field. The cow's, cow dung and man's stool and everyone's stool, they are wrapped gathered together in the rainy season. It became fertile. (Hindi)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We will try for the land.

Prabhupāda: Immediately. That is... That will be proper utilization. And in the court, unless they arrange for this dirty water out, why shall I pay tax? We shall stick to this position.

Room Conversation with C.I.D. Chief -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hundreds and thousands. Here, of course, we have not so many cars, but there in many cities I have seen. They have gathered together, and then they are pressed and thrown to the iron factory and again melted in fire of... So similarly, when the life is not there, it is a lump of matter. So it is lump of matter. Just like the motorcar. When it was being driven by driver, it has value, but when it is not to be driven anymore, it has no value. Similarly... But the motorcar is the same. It is the driver that is important. Similarly, the soul is important, not this body. But the modern civilization, accepting this body as the important, and they have no information of the driver, soul.

CID Chief: They try to decorate it, a body, dead body. It is...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Decorating a dead body.

CID Chief: No, but I think this..., a lot of a wakening in the minds of people.

Prabhupāda: This education is lacking throughout the whole world, and we have started this movement to give this education, and people are against. That means they have become so fallen that they cannot even take up right knowledge. The same proverb: "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." So we have to struggle against this darkness, but we have to do it. This is our mission. We cannot stop it. It is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, para-upakāra. People are kept in darkness, and... That is not Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Kṛṣṇa's mission actually. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). "When people are misguided," tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham, "at that time I come down."

Room Conversation -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Jagadīśa: As in Hyderabad.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then our movement is success. Our only motive is how people become interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We have no other motive. No economic problem... Economic problem is... What is economic problem? We produce our own food and cloth, barely, and spiritual life... On the farm it is easier. And if they are dispatched to the city for livelihood, there are big, big roads and big, big cars and big, big anxieties. Then wine, meat, and so on, so on..., suicide, their spiritual life finished. These rascals are protesting. They have no ideas of spiritual life. They think this is life, to be merry, enjoy and drink. "Eat. Drink. Be merry." How they are committing suicide, they do not know. Nature's law is very stringent. They are foolish rascal. There is no education for them. Still, if we try, many men will be saved. So write very elaborately how to do this. Increase. And in your country, we increase this farm project any unlimited number... So much land is lying vacant. We can utilize the wood for constructing residences. And as soon as the jungle is clear, we can utilize it for growing food and keeping cows, as exactly they are doing in New Vrindaban. The cows are very happy. In our original New Vrindaban... What you have named it?

Jagadīśa: The original farm? I think they still call that New Vrindaban.

Room Conversation -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, with a stick. (chuckles) They are so submissive. The cow is going this side, "Raa-raa!"—immediately. (Jagadīśa laughs) When in Bible they say, "The animal is given to the care of man," like that... There is. This is care of, not that "Because we care of, we shall kill them." What is this interpretation? How demonic this Western civilization. "Because Jesus Christ, the God, has given the animals to our care, therefore we shall kill and eat." Anyway, try to introduce a renovation of civilization. Therefore they are trying to oppose us. Now they are conscious about the movement, that "If it is allowed to increase, then our program will be finished. And young men are taking. They are not rejecting." That is their concern. They are concerned about their business and industry. If these young men are held up in plain living, then where their industry...? Industry means to exploit the work of others and give them one dollar and make profit ten dollars. This is industry, at the cost of others some capitalist gaining huge profit. This is industry. "And let them live in a hellish condition, go to hell. Never mind. You work in the factory, and we make profit." The Communist is trying to take over the industry and get the whole profit. (laughs) That's all. The condition remains the same—hellish. But... What is called...? Complacent, he's satisfied that "I am getting the profit." All foolish. The Iran is also imitating European method of exploiting. They're bringing men from village. In India also, British period, they used to, that, but Indian people are little clever. They would come from the village to the city alone, not with family. They earn money and send to the family. And whenever they like, they go away. They're not dependent. And if you bring family, you have to work. That system is still going on. The village men, they come but they do not bring their family. Family remains in the village. He earns, he lives some way or other and sends money there, and the wife who is intelligent. He (she) accumulates the money and when there is enough money he (she) purchases land, investment. So... In after few years, when they have got enough land, they do not come back. They produce their own necessities. Very nice. Hare Kṛṣṇa. As soon as they are self-sufficient from the land they no more work. That's a good idea. Remain in the village with family.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why not meet the minister?

Girirāja: Yes. We've met him once before because he's... The municipality is under him. So when we met the Chief Minister to get these things straightened out, so at that time he spoke to this Urban Affairs Minister. So he knows us, he's quite intelligent personally. But I think if... First we'll meet the city engineer, he's next to the commissioner and just say that we don't want to have to get this N.O.C. So if he removes that condition then the whole problem is solved. Do you think we should go straight to the minister?

Prabhupāda: Harassment.

Girirāja: Huh?

Prabhupāda: Harassment.

Girirāja: Oh, yes, completely. Their whole office, the papers are piled to the ceiling and people just waste hours (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: If there is ceiling, then we can divide the land amongst ourselves.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: That is in Western countries.

Prabhupāda: No, everywhere. India also.

Dr. Patel: Marriages are brought in famine (?) and they are never broken down again.

Prabhupāda: No, in big, big cities there is a marriage magistrate. You go... The boys and girls go and register there...

Dr. Patel: Yes, but here...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Marriage is, therefore, what is called primitive. Primitive. Modern marriage is primitive.

Dr. Patel: I think also that is correct. In your time, sir, you never used to see the girl from the year before the marriage. In our times, we never used to see the girl before the marriage. I never saw my wife. She was in Mahatma Gandhi's āśrama, and I was on this side. I never saw. And we lived very happily.

Prabhupāda: No, in my marriage, it was already settled. So one day I was going in cycle. So my father-in-law forcibly took me. (chuckles)

Dr. Patel: So those marriage, sir, sometimes they never forget.(?)

Prabhupāda: No. My wife was eleven years old.

Dr. Patel: My wife was sixteen years when I married her. I was nineteen.

Trivikrama: Eleven years!

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So why you are bothering about that?

Girirāja: That's what I say. We have stood...

Prabhupāda: Gopāla is bothering too much about...

Mr. Asnani: No, Prabhupāda, with your blessings, I know the Assistant Commissioner, and he is number three or four in entire city of Bombay and a very much influential center. He's a courageous man also. He's a sarvaji(?). And if I will place this problem before him as and when it is necessary, he is there to guide us.

Prabhupāda: So first of all where is the necessity? I have been talking...

Mr. Asnani: Why create a problem? Today the problem is not before us.

Girirāja: The thing is that the same constitution we've had since the beginning, and we've always got the exemption...

Prabhupāda: Yes. And why you are bothering? He's going Delhi?

Girirāja: Even last time the Assistant Commissioner...

Mr. Asnani: Who is there in Delhi, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: This Gopāla Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (2): Things are going very good for our movement here. Other day I was with one Air India officer, and I told him, "Why don't you attract more tourists and show pictures of Hare Kṛṣṇa and what our activities in India?" To attract more tourists by giving our activities in India. They said we will discuss. They will be discussing with me in the... And of course I will take Girirāja and Gopāla Kṛṣṇa. And one school which is a very famous school in Bombay, center of the city where all the affluent people are staying—that school is very big school, good school—they have agreed that once in a week we can give you forty-five minutes to your...

Prabhupāda: Saṅkīrtana.

Guest (2): Saṅkīrtana. So this I will be discussing with Gopāla Kṛṣṇa. And there are about 1500 students in that school from...

Prabhupāda: Kīrtana can be performed. So the movie, how long it is?

Bhavabhūtī: It's a one and a half hour movie, and we're in about eight minutes of it.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Eight minutes. Showing our books? That I want. Let them read our books. Then they'll understand what we are.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, not so.

Dr. Patel: No, less than that. Ahmedabad was only four lakhs' population before. Now it is twenty lakhs.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere the population is increased. Why?

Dr. Patel: People have more interest because of the industrialization.

Gurudāsa: They attract people. They think they will be happy in the city.

Dr. Patel: Not that. Because they get more easy jobs in the city. You see, jobs.

Gurudāsa: How can they get jobs easy, when so many people are lying on the...

Dr. Patel: It is at least they can have some food. In the small villages they're not having.

Gurudāsa: In small villages food grows out of the ground.

Dr. Patel: They don't want to grow. They want to just give up, go to here.

Gurudāsa: That is an anomaly.

Dr. Patel: I tell you, this vicious propaganda of the government... I have got a small hill, fifteen bigas, on a highway, Bombay highway, with canal waters irrigating my land and a well with pump and everything. Last year we spent nine thousand rupees on fertilizer and all things and other paraphernalia, and pay for the servants. And they got paddy worth six thousand rupees.

Prabhupāda: Three thousand lost.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Because the prices was so down, you see, and fertilizer they are selling at a very high rate. Before it was available, a bag, for fifty rupees or fifty-one. Now it is more than eleven-ten. They don't want that a man in the city should be employed for less than five rupees a day. It's very expensive. And they don't work also. They used to work very hard in ancient times. Now they come at ten o'clock, go at five. Before they used to come early morning at six, seven o'clock and work up til five in the evening, and you used to feed them afternoon.

Gurudāsa: Use gobar instead of...

Dr. Patel: No, gobar is not that much available.

Gurudāsa: Gobar means cows. Get a cow.

Dr. Patel: We use gobar. All of us keep cows. But there is not sufficient for that.

Gurudāsa: You can eat six thousand rupees' worth of rice yourself?

Dr. Patel: No, you can't. You have in the market. No, I cannot eat even this much because I can't bring it here to Bombay. There is a barrier. You can't export from one place to another. This is the government. And our rice is just like the (indistinct) quality.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: You go and eat there. (laughter)

Arrival of BBT Manager -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Especially newspapers. I have given the instruction. You are here, and you can arrange, three. I am reading the matter also like this. Read it. It is very simple.

Rāmeśvara: "Read worldwide Hare Kṛṣṇa literatures and be happy. Books by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. 1) Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Cantos 1-9, twenty-seven volumes, Rs..." (aside:) Not so many. Per volume. "Bhagavad-gītā As It Is; Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, seventeen volumes; Teachings of Lord Caitanya; The Nectar of Devotion; Śrī Īśopaniṣad; Easy Journey to Other Planets; Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, the Topmost Yoga System; Kṛṣṇa, The Supreme Personality of Godhead, three volumes; Perfect Questions, Perfect Answers; and so on. Recommended by learned scholars and professors all over the world. Available for reading from all university, college and public libraries of the world, and can be purchased."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We can give the name of few leading bookstores in each city.

Prabhupāda: Not through bookstore. Only our...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhaktivedanta Book Trust.

Prabhupāda: Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, and you can give that Calcutta agent, Vrnda Book... That's all.

Room Conversation -- January 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Addresses. You can write. What is the address of the Vrnda Book Company?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I have it with me in my office.

Prabhupāda: So write it there.

Rāmeśvara: This paper circulates more than the Times.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Combined. But not individually by city.

Rāmeśvara: But it's very close. Just in this city, Bombay, only twenty thousand papers difference. In Delhi, bigger circulation than Times.

Prabhupāda: Competition.

Rāmeśvara: Very competitive. And it's overall much more.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it's a fine paper. Therefore we decided.

Prabhupāda: Please see that there is no printing mistake.

Room Conversation -- January 10, 1977, Bombay:

Trivikrama: Today we have an engagement at the Gujarati... What was that?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Nathdvar?

Prabhupāda: Here?

Trivikrama: In Bombay. In the city we have a...

Prabhupāda: So books are selling?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Which ones selling?

Trivikrama: Well, they want mostly in Gujarati. They didn't read Hindi. There is magazines and Īśopaniṣad.

Prabhupāda: This magazine you have got?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We have stock of Gujarati books also.

Prabhupāda: No, this magazine.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Not this one. This one hasn't arrived.

Trivikrama: This is a rupee and a half.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: These covers I did in Bombay. These are books from the other covers. They came out very good. Ādi-rasa was telling me, in a week we'll also do the black and white in Bombay, because the quality is going to be better.

Prabhupāda: You make expert, on quality expert.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Intimate with...

Rāmeśvara: And there's also a chance to meet government leaders.

Prabhupāda: Someway or other, it is becoming popular. (chuckles) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, should we be thinking in our minds that one day the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will have to manage the cities and the nations of the world?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Rāmeśvara: So there are so many different departments in managing such a big thing. It requires a lot of...

Prabhupāda: No, no. We shall... If people become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then the so many nonsense departments will be reduced.

Hari-śauri: Simplified.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The department, the sinful departments, illicit sex, meat-eating, this will be closed, and that will make simple.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Śraddhā-śabde viśvāsa sudṛḍha niścaya. This is basic platform, that "What Kṛṣṇa says, that is truth." Kṛṣṇa bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya: "If I follow Kṛṣṇa, then my business is complete." This is intelligence. Now... We have come to the open field. How it is nice. And so long we were passing through that congested areas-hellish, simply hellish. And now here is open space. How it is nice.

Hari-śauri: To enter into a city is so imposing on your consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Up to that point, simply rubbish, all papers thrown here and there. People are living in... Now see here, how it is open and pleasing. Organize this farm project. Farm. (background talking)

Hari-śauri: He's just saying that in the West one requires a great deal of capital. To start a farm, to get the land, you need a lot of money because land is very expensive. And also we have to use modern farming techniques because we have so few men to run the farms.

Prabhupāda: No, you show example. People will do automatically. When the people find it is very nice, they will take.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Jagadīśa: There has to be some modern convenience.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Then we shall do that.

Rāmeśvara: But for many people who live in the cities, they have their jobs already. They don't want to give it up.

Prabhupāda: (train slows down) What is the nonsense? No, there is a station? No station.

Jagadīśa: Why does this train keep stopping? (train stops)

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Jagadīśa: Why does the train keep stopping?

Prabhupāda: Who is this gentleman?

Hari-śauri: Pradyumna?

Prabhupāda: Oh, Pradyumna.

Rāmeśvara: Say, in America, most people live in the cities, and they already have their job, and they are set in their ways.

Prabhupāda: But you said that there is unemployment also.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. A famous man must be famous. He cannot be famous, famous. What you have done that you'll be famous? You are swine. You cannot be famous.

Rāmeśvara: They are subscribing to our newsletter. They somehow or other get our newsletter, and they read about our Māyāpur city costing so many lakhs and crores. So they became envious. That's all.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That's all right. We are selling books. That is my book. I can spend in such a way.

Rāmeśvara: It was just envy.

Prabhupāda: Envy is envy. But it is my book. I am selling. So I can take the price anywhere. That is my right. You have nothing to say. You stop your men to purchase, that's all. Otherwise I'll sell anywhere and I shall spend anywhere. I have got the right.

Rāmeśvara: Normally they do not attack you.

Jagadīśa: We are voluntarily doing all this.

Rāmeśvara: We're voluntarily. But one of their main arguments is that before someone joins the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement he has great affection for his father, his mother, his brothers, his relatives. And after he joins the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement he has nothing to do with them anymore, and sometimes he even calls them demon.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the fact.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Hari-śauri: Show the nine devotional processes...

Prabhupāda: Yes, the nine devotional process and how, by each process, one becomes perfect, just like Parīkṣit Mahārāja, simply hearing, and Śukadeva Gosvāmī, simply chanting, reciting Bhāgavatam. So both of them got salvation. Lakṣmī, she is simply pāda-sevanam, giving massage to the lotus feet of the Lord. Arjuna simply made friendship with Kṛṣṇa. Hanuman simply worked as a hard servant. He doesn't know what He is... "Lord Rāmacandra wants it." Then it is done. Jump over. He does not know any philosophy. He has got bodily strength, so whatever Rāmacandra says, he'll do. He was asked to bring that medicine for Lakṣmaṇa. He did not know where to find it. "Take this whole mountain." (laughter) He was not intelligent. "Fight! We have to fight with Rāvaṇa. Then block his whole city by throwing stones and trees and dirt." Everything became blocked. They could not move. So in one side he is born of animal life, he had no higher intelligence, but his staunch desire, that "I shall serve Lord Rāmacandra..." By that... Only this desire made him perfect. Dāsyam. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23), so smaraṇam. Prahlāda Mahārāja, five years old boy, how he could protest against such a powerful demon father? He was simply thinking of Kṛṣṇa, "All right, my father is punishing me. What can I do?" Simply absorbed, smaraṇam.

Room Conversation -- January 16, 1977, Calcutta:

Hari-śauri: Swimming pools.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Abhirāma: Gargamuni Swami says it is contaminated, that water.

Prabhupāda: It is contaminated for you, not for us. Why contaminated? So many people are taking. In Bengal, all villagers, they take bath in the pond, this tank. Large quantity, water, is not contaminated. A small quantity, water, is contaminated.

Abhirāma: Everything is there, the fish and this...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Abhirāma: Everything is keeping it clean. So Śrīla Prabhupāda? I have built one home at Māyāpur. Perhaps you have been told. My plan was to leave my wife there because she likes a peaceful place. City life she cannot live. And I would stay in Calcutta, say, four days a week and go on weekends to Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Go.

Abhirāma: That way there be some separation. At the same time...

Prabhupāda: Gradually full separation. And she'll be... (end)

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: ...available plots.

Gargamuni: Yes, there's those two plots on that main... Now, there's many broken buildings there, many. I drove all around. But the plots are too small.

Rāmeśvara: You'd have to buy several of them together.

Gargamuni: Yes. And also they're out of the city. They're more out of reach. They're not in that... That one area is the best area. There's a two-lane road. You know, traffic going one way and traffic going another way with an island in the center.

Rāmeśvara: And all the hotels are there.

Gargamuni: And all the hotels are there, so all the top people are there.

Rāmeśvara: It sounds like Bombay.

Gargamuni: And that Purī hotel was packed up with foreigners and with local people very nicely dressed. And this plot is just near the Purī hotel. So it's a nice area, and the breeze is wonderful, very nice breeze from the ocean. So if we build a nice multi-story, that breeze will be very healthy.

Prabhupāda: So...

Gargamuni: So I have to leave here tomorrow morning at 8:30 and meet with the man at around 9:30, 10:00, and he'll give me all the names and addresses, and he'll show me some other plots. Then, perhaps, if maybe you would like to see it the following day, we can drive there and show you the plot as soon as I get more information.

Rāmeśvara: Would you like to do that, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: Because along the road, say about ten kilometers, they have a sign, "Look to your right, and you will see Purī in your sight." They have a sign, like a poem.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Gargamuni: Along the road. They say, "Look to your right, and you will see Lord Jagannātha temple in your sight." And sure enough, you see, coming up, about ten miles out of the city, that temple. So similarly if we have a very high temple it can be seen.

Rāmeśvara: "Look to your left." (chuckling) This is very exciting, this idea of building in Purī. And Prabhupāda said the main Deities would be Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma.

Hari-śauri: If we build in Purī, will we have Jagannātha?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Jagannātha, Nitāi-Gaura, Guru-Gaurāṅga...

Rāmeśvara: And Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma, like Vṛndāvana.

Rāmeśvara: That will also be very wonderful, to have Lord Gaurāṅga on the altar.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: He was under whose control?

Gargamuni: Tīrtha Mahārāja. But they never gave him anything. They never gave him men; they never gave him money, nothing.

Rāmeśvara: Not even letters.

Gargamuni: No. They never even wrote him. They didn't care. And there's still a foundation. From 1948 there is a foundation there of a building which was started in 1947 or '48, and I was very surprised because the building has a frame of steel girders, not cement but steel, big steel girder. It has a frame. I think it's about a two-story building, say half the size of Māyāpur building, half the size. And the frame is still there. I asked Pañcaratna who went there if it was still there or whether it was blown away by the war. He said, "No, it is still there." So there's already a building. There's a stone wall around the property. I think it's around, maybe, about three-quarters to an acre. But it's in the heart of the city. It's in a good area, a very populated area but very nice area also.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: So I thought I would go there and see and then come back, get a new visa and then return and give a report.

Prabhupāda: So it will be nice. That was started by my Guru Mahārāja. We have to take.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: What was the condition at that time, general, during the war?

Gargamuni: Where? In Dacca?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: There was starvation immediately. There was no food in the whole city. I was living on capatis. That's all we had. Course, we were very nervous, so we couldn't eat so much anyway because there was so much going on in the city, bombings and firing.

Prabhupāda: And general public?

Gargamuni: And most of the army, they imported the army from Pakistan. These men were six feet tall. These were... They have a certain name.

Prabhupāda: Jatha? No.

Gargamuni: Jatha? No. Rathan or something.

Prabhupāda: Pathan. Pathan.

Gargamuni: Yes. Very huge men.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: He speaks it, and he is not so much engaged.

Prabhupāda: Take some Gītārgān.

Gargamuni: Yes, I'm going to take. I was thinking if my vans get kicked out of the country because of the customs, that we would go to Bangladesh and take trunkloads of Gītārgāns and go to Dacca and Chittagong and some of the big cities.

Prabhupāda: Bangladesh. It will be great service.

Gargamuni: Yes.

Hari-śauri: There's a few people asking for darśana.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: There's one boy we've been preaching to. He's a student in sociology.

Prabhupāda: Let him come. No "logy" before Kṛṣṇa conscious. All "logy" finished.

Rāmeśvara: Hari-śauri, I turned this off. You going to stay here, Hari-śauri? So I should take it out? Leave it?

Hari-śauri: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) You belong to Orissa.

Room Conversation -- January 20, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Indian boy: I want to read some books published by Swamiji. Can I get?

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not? You can have here. We have got forty standing orders from this city in different libraries, colleges. So you can take books from any library, or if you like you can purchase also.

Indian: From libraries?

Prabhupāda: Yes. So many libraries, they have ordered. There is a list in Orissan. (aside:) You can give me little, little sample... (break) ...for life that it is a dead body. A dead body. So what is the use of decorating a dead body? So if anyone accepts Christ actually and his instruction, then it proves that he has got a good soul. Otherwise what... He's dead body. That's a fact. If one accepts that Christ says, "Thou shall not kill. Thou shall not do this," if one is actually a person with soul, they must accept this. Otherwise where is the use? Dead body. The same thing, as we say, aprāṇasya hi dehasya maṇḍanaṁ loka-rañjanam. What is the use of decorating a dead body? A dead body means soul-less. When the soul is not there, it is called dead body. So even one has got the soul, but he does not act... They possesses the soul. Then it is dead body. So when we shall hear about the land? One program is suspended. That program is for constructing a house for me.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: In Aurobindo āśrama the same thing. Aurobindo said that "You simply think of me. Then you will be pure."

Gargamuni: One of our party went to this Pondicherry. He said the whole thing is simply propaganda. There's nothing there in this Auroville.

Rāmeśvara: What is Auroville?

Gargamuni: They're building a city. You've never heard of it? It's big, worldwide... Auroville. Building a city of spiritual life.

Rāmeśvara: Where?

Hari-śauri: Yes. That's all over the world. Aurobindo. That's in South India on the coast, Pondicherry.

Rāmeśvara: Who goes there? Westerners?

Gargamuni: Oh, yes. That's all that's there now. But there's only about twenty of them.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Gargamuni: Yeah, very few. And they asked our men... Because people started to become attracted and asking and looking at our books, so the in-charge asked our men, "Please leave."

Prabhupāda: Acchā?

Gargamuni: Yes.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) You are dangerous. You are dangerous.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No, simply do this.

Rāmeśvara: Such a dramatic transformation of society.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Whatever it may be... We should be satisfied locally by our food, by our cloth, by our milk. That's all. Let the whole world go to hell. We don't care. If you want to save yourself also, you do this. Here is an example. If you want artificial life, city life, and hellish life, you do. But we shall live like this. This is the ideal life.

Hari-śauri: But still, we're going out to attract people to come to our life-style.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hari-śauri: We're still going out to attract people to come and live like us.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Well, even more than that, we know that we have the secret to real life, so it's our duty to actually... Just like you say...

Prabhupāda: That is preaching. That is preaching.

Rāmeśvara: ...the surgeon, he must cut.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Where?

Gargamuni: Shillong.

Prabhupāda: Shillong, yes.

Gargamuni: A very beautiful city, they said. And they sold books to at least one dozen book stores. They took Bhagavad-gītās. They did very well in Assam. In ten days they did twenty-six standing orders in three cities, Gauhati, Shillong and then Siliguri in northern Bengal.

Prabhupāda: This is very much astonishing that they do not touch religious book, but our books secure. (laughs)

Gargamuni: Yes. Yes. They have no budget to purchase religious books. They only want technical books. But when they see our books, they cannot say no. That has been the response.

Hari-śauri: Spiritual potency.

Prabhupāda: Technical books... (chuckles) Now that, my nephew Govinda, he's a watch repair.

Gargamuni: Oh, yes. He fixes our watches.

Prabhupāda: Ah, ah.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: I think you even said that "This unemployment will destroy your country." You once said that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. At least, the black men will spoil everything if they are unemployed.

Rāmeśvara: He'll simply become a thief.

Prabhupāda: Thieves, rogues and plunderers. That's all.

Hari-śauri: Detroit has the highest murder rate in the world, 'cause all the city population is black.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we could purchase that palace which costs six million dollars fifty years ago. And we have got for three hundred thousand. Why? Nobody was purchasing. Who will go to purchase there? I took it. "Yes it is..." I offered him... He was asking 350,000. So I told him, "I'll pay you cash, all three hundred." He immediately agreed. (laughs) I should have offered him less. He would have agreed. Nobody was purchasing.

Hari-śauri: Yes, we could have got it for half...

Prabhupāda: So he immediately agreed. Anyway, that's a very nice place. You have seen?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Very nice place, unique palace.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Just like if there are temples, people are accustomed, going to temple, chanting Hare..., there is no harm. But the city like the Western countries, simply sense gratification, that should be stopped.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. Yes. And you mention specifically...

Prabhupāda: Just like in Kṛṣṇa's time there were cities like Mathurā, Dvārakā. They were cities, big, big city. And when Kṛṣṇa came, they were decorating, they were receiving. So that kind of city will continue, but not this hellish city-slaughterhouse, brothel and big, big tin car, and so on, accident.

Hari-śauri: Skyscrapers.

Prabhupāda: We have no objection to this, provided there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Unfortunately these things cover more time for their maintenance, and they forget Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That should be stopped. The main business is development of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Rāmeśvara: And you also mentioned not so much these ugra-karmic jobs.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: Does that mean we have to wait for the situation to arise where they are jobless?

Prabhupāda: No. Wait... We are waiting, but if anyone comes, we have already big, big farms. "Come, hundreds. We shall provide you."

Hari-śauri: But this is talking in terms of millions of people who are engaged in America in the cities.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Let millions... The land is also millions' acres. We shall utilize gradually.

Rāmeśvara: Now, what I am thinking is this, that you have mentioned many times, several times, that there is a conflict which is inevitable between Russia and America.

Prabhupāda: Hm. No, if they understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness, both of them—now we are publishing—then there will be no conflict on...

Rāmeśvara: If Russia...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: But if not...

Prabhupāda: Then we shall force America to fight with them. Finish this philosophy.

Rāmeśvara: Now, if this conflict takes place, then you mentioned that many cities both in America and Russia will be bombed or affected by this conflict.

Prabhupāda: Hm, hm.

Room Conversation -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Nanda-kumāra: The prasādam is there. I'll see if...

Prabhupāda: No... Somebody talking?

Brahmānanda: There's so many... So much noise. They must be talking.

Gargamuni: There were many foreigners we saw in Purī. One busload came, busload of foreigners.

Prabhupāda: In Purī many foreigners come. It is tourist city.

Nanda-kumāra: Everyone is taking prasāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: They have got respect for prasādam. So you are distributing prasādam?

Brahmānanda: Yes, twice a day, at noon and at evening. We've built a special pavilion on the side of the temple. See, we were making the mistake all along of trying to mix the Africans and the Asians together.

Prabhupāda: That is not good.

Brahmānanda: That was a bad policy. Now we have separate, the Asians on one side and the Africans on the other side, and both are happy.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Room Conversation -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: What did he gain? Became a rākṣasa and was killed.

Gurukṛpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I went to Jagannātha Purī today, and I looked at this land that Gargamuni was looking at, and I don't think it's a very good idea because it's too central. It is right with all the hotels, and therefore the atmosphere there is not a very serenic atmosphere. But just maybe one mile down the beach I saw, which is still on the main road... It is within ten minute rickshaw. The atmosphere reminds one of Lord Caitanya, and the water there is much cleaner because it is away from the sewerage of the main city, similar to our Vṛndāvana, not far off, but five or ten minutes. It is the best place in Purī.

Prabhupāda: So put this matter in the GBC meeting.

Hari-śauri: I found the address of one man who offered us some land. You remember in Bombay you wanted someone to look at this land.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gurukṛpa: No benefit. It makes them an ass.

Prabhupāda: Making them demons, that's all.

Gurukṛpa: They become puffed-up, thinking they know something. They don't know anything.

Prabhupāda: Not only that, modern educated youths, they are not inclined to come to the farm. So they're giving up their own father's property, farm. They do not come back from city. The farmers' children go to cities for education, and after so-called education the rascals do not come. Here also and in your country also, America and... They want city life and enjoy restaurant and prostitute.

Satsvarūpa: There is a song, "How are you going to keep them on the farm after they've seen Paris?" They don't want to go back.

Prabhupāda: Ah. So much land sitting. Huge land is lying vacant, and they are complaining, "Orissa is poor. Please..." Why poor? Why don't you work? You must remain poor. You do not produce your food. Kuyoginaṁ kuśam upaiti lakṣmiṇī.(?) If you work hard, Lakṣmī will come. Our institution is working so hard, all our devotees. Therefore we have no scarcity. We are not bābājīs, taking a mala and smoking bidi. "I do not go beyond Vṛndāvana." Rascal, loitering and associating with so many women, and they have become puffed-up, paramahaṁsas, Rūpa Gosvāmī, imitation Rūpa Gosvāmī. Only a loincloth of Rūpa Gosvāmī. No education, no book writing, no going out of Vṛndāvana, begging. And therefore government's capturing them and giving this injection. What is that? Sterilization. Yes, just see. So many illegal children are born by these women. Bhajana. Bhajana kara. One bābājī has at least three women, four women. That's all.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: Like monkeys.

Prabhupāda: Like monkeys, yes. Markaṭa-vairāgya. (break) And they are living very rich. And if you make big, big cities without industry, cities cannot be maintained. You'll require so many instruments, machine. That means you require (indistinct). If you require food, there is no need of industry.

Satsvarūpa: I remember in school seeing films of India, and they would say, "This is very backward. They're living as they used to live hundreds of years ago by using the ox and the plow."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now we have, hundred years after, we have learned how to kill ox and bulls. That is your advancement. And kill your own children also. Rascal civilization. They say "primitive." I was talking with a priest in Australia. So he said, "This civilization you are suggesting, this is primitive." Do they call it primitive?

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And what is the wrong with the primitive?

Satsvarūpa: They think it's shocking that the way they used to live hundreds of years ago, they're still living. But in America...

Prabhupāda: So what improvement you have done, rascal?

Satsvarūpa: Motorcars, roads, buildings.

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Guest (1): Bose had impact. Subash Bose had a great impact because, you see...

Prabhupāda: No, no, I mean to say, violent. When they were threatened with violence... They are not philosophers, that nonviolence will drive away. They are politicians. "You go on with your nonviolence movement." Gandhi did it for twenty years in Urban. What is that?

Pradyumna: Durban, South Africa?

Prabhupāda: Durban, Durban. No conclusion. The Indians are still segregated. I had been in South Africa. So from... What is that? Johannesburg. Johannesburg city, that Indian quarter, at least ten to fifteen miles away in a jungle. And there they have kept slaughterhouse.

Guest (1): Oh, near the Indian quarters.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And Indians, whole night they are hearing the screaming of the animals. Means, purposefully they have created this disturbance, and Indians have got some sentiment of cow killing. And that screaming is going on whole night.

Guest (1): Whole night.

Prabhupāda: So that they may go away. This policy is still going on.

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: (laughing) The people who speak the local language can't read it. So the signs are useless. Anybody who is educated enough to read it can read...

Prabhupāda: English language understood. English... They speak in English. In big, big cities like Bombay, Calcutta, Delhi, even the girls, young girls, they would like to speak in English. They don't like to speak in their... At home even, with their father and mother, they're speaking in English. Especially in Bombay, everyone speaks. Not now. I have connection with Bombay since 1927. In 1927 I first went to Bombay. So how many years? Fifty years? I have seen it. They speak in English. They are sending their children where education is given by medium, English. High-class men, they send their children to learn through medium of English. There is Calcutta, St. Julia's College, near our college near our temple.

Satsvarūpa: Hindu College?

Prabhupāda: No. St. Julia's. All Indian students, all very rich man's sons. I sent my sons to English, St. Mary's High School and St. Teresa's school. Learned English very nicely. Scottish Churches College. I was educated in Scottish... All our professors European, Englishmen and Scotsmen.

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: In the West they regard rice as the poor man's food.

Prabhupāda: But Japanese are very intelligent, Bengalis are intelligent, by taking fish and rice. In Bengal ninety percent people, they take fish. Here also, Orissa, cent percent, even the Jagannātha pūjārīs. In Bihar also, fifty percent. The more you go towards Western part of India, you get more wealthy province, just like Uttar Pradesh, very wealthy province, enlightened. All the big cities are there: Allahabad, Kanpur, Agra, Lucknow. Every hundred miles you get a very nice city in UP, the best province in India. All the holy places-Vṛndāvana, Prayāga, Hardwar, Ayodhyā, many celebrated holy places. Ganges and Yamunā flowing, two sacred rivers. Both of them through in Uttar Pradesh. And all the cities are either on the bank of the Yamunā or Ganges. And that is the best province, state, in India. It has got fifty districts. And fifty districts means fifty towns. Little more or less important. But the Kanpur is the third important city in India. First Calcutta, Bombay, and next, Kanpur.

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: Not Delhi?

Prabhupāda: No. Delhi has become important on account of capital.

Satsvarūpa: Politics.

Prabhupāda: Government.

Satsvarūpa: International government.

Prabhupāda: From business point... Now they're making Delhi industrially developed. That is new attempt. But Calcutta, Bombay, Kanpur is old... Calcutta is manufactured by the British. Bombay also manufactured. But Kanpur is older, very old. Kanyakubja. That Ajāmila upākhyāna?(?) Ajāmila?

Hari-śauri: Ajāmila.

Prabhupāda: Ajāmila story, that was in Kanpur. Very, very old city. Kanpur, Mathurā, they are very old cities. Allahabad, Prayāga. Prehistoric. Manipur. (end)

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: It's all right. He can come.

Prabhupāda: They should not say like that. Ask. (converses in Bengali with Indian man) (break)

Satsvarūpa: They should speak their mind to you about this.

Prabhupāda: No, you talk amongst yourselves everything. And you are all GBC. Tell, "This is not good." They should have kīrtana here. They should go to the city, kīrtana party. People should know that there is... Something is going to be done. Actually they want to enjoy that sea bathing. They're going here and there. That is their business. That is not preaching. That is sense enjoyment. Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma. (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126) That is the order of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Why there should be discrimination, "Not here, not there"? He wants in every village and every town. How you can discriminate? Wherever possible, you should start.

Satsvarūpa: How is all the money for construction for this temple supposed to come? By the local preaching by Gaura-Govinda or...

Prabhupāda: Somehow or other, it must come. He has promised that he will collect half.

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: That's also a kind of kīrtana. But then the public, they hardly ever see us anymore. They used to say, "Oh, the saffron-robed people chanting on the streets."

Prabhupāda: But they come to the love feast.

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Satsvarūpa: Yes. It's not necessary to emphasize that street chanting.

Prabhupāda: No. Sell books and invite them to come to temple for love feast.

Satsvarūpa: And there is all these men. It's still five more days before the ceremony. If they can do this..., programs locally.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They should go to the... Yes, locally. Kīrtana party. They should go in their bus and have in the city kīrtana party. Try to collect something. (end)

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Big cats?

Pradyumna: And big rats.

Prabhupāda: So the crocodile, they do not eat the rats?

Pradyumna: There are all kinds of many living entities there in the sewers of New York. In all sewers in big Western cities. There's once... There's a very famous French novel, and it describes how a prisoner was escaping from troops, so he went in the sewer. And in the sewer there was all kinds of so many things. Once an article about New York sewers...

Prabhupāda: They can live in that nasty water?

Hari-śauri: It's warm. The reason why they're down there is because the sewers are always very warm. So it's very conducive for the alligators. So they grow very big.

Prabhupāda: And what they eat?

Hari-śauri: Rodents. Rats and different things.

Pradyumna: London sewers also.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The idea behind this is that the jaws of this crocodile is so big and so powerful that they can crush, they say, the femur of a buffalo, the thigh, a big all at once, they can crush it immediately. But in the case of the egg, he has this loving tendency, tender care, so that the little one is not hurt, the feeling, their conscious feeling.

Prabhupāda: Affectionate.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So make that arrangement. We shall go. Very good.

Gargamuni: And maybe from there, on our way by road, we know some people in Shillong. And maybe from Imphal you can go to Shillong for some programs, in Shillong.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: 'Cause that is important city, very big city.

Prabhupāda: Shillong is Assam.

Gargamuni: In Meghalaya

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's now Meghalaya. Yes.

Gargamuni: Now Meghalaya. But it used to be a British capital. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the children. They're not attacking the children. Otherwise they cannot keep four ferocious animal in a place. They'll fight and they will kill one in order to... You were at that time there?

Nanda-kumāra: No. I was in...

Prabhupāda: So you keep this later on, do the needful. (end)

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Yogeśvara: Not too much French. English there is. Is there a GBC for Thailand?

Prabhupāda: Every GBC is for everywhere. Let it be considered in the next meeting.

Yogeśvara: At Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: You can continue rent for one or two months more and see if there is possibility. Our mission is for every city, every town, every village, and if we can maintain for some utility, that is very good. If you have no men, we cannot linger on there. Otherwise we want to open branches everywhere. That is our mission. (aside:) We have... What is...?

Yogeśvara: We'll be leaving tonight.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Yogeśvara: To France via Bangkok.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Yogeśvara: We just came to make the report to you, and we were in Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: So you will not stay here up to...? No.

Hari-śauri: Festival?

Yogeśvara: There is work for us, service waiting in France.

Prabhupāda: So what is the report in France? Paris atmosphere is all right?

Yogeśvara: Paris? Paris, there is good enthusiasm because there is saṅkīrtana party. It is more difficult at the farm, because there is no saṅkīrtana.

Prabhupāda: Why? There are so many men. There is no saṅkīrtana?

Yogeśvara: Yes. It is far from the nearest city.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: And therefore I'm asking. Potential is wonderful, so why they are not attracted to live in the farm and be self-independent and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa? That is our farm project. Our farm project is they should be satisfied with simple living. That is nice living. If you get milk, if you get fruit, if you get grain and open air, it is very healthy life. Why they should not be attracted?

Yogeśvara: It is still the beginning, and because it's the beginning, it is a little difficult sometimes.

Prabhupāda: That may be. But this should be our aim. We should not be attracted by the modern city life. Simplified life. Save time and utilize for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is perfect life. Just like Vṛndāvana. Vṛndāvana life means agriculturist, cowherd boys, uneducated girls, cows and calves, and tree, fruits. This is Vṛndāvana. The center is Kṛṣṇa.

Yogeśvara: Simple living.

Prabhupāda: But they are the topmost devotees. These (chuckling) uneducated, without any town life, cow-men, they are Kṛṣṇa's best friend. Unsophisticated, no education, but love intense—that is perfect. That attracted Kṛṣṇa more. Vṛndāvanaṁ parityajya na padam ekaṁ (sic:) na kartavya... Kṛṣṇa is so much attached to Vṛndāvana that He goes nowhere... What is that? They are not educated girls, up-to-date fashion, (indistinct) or nothing. Crude. As soon as there was blowing of the flute, immediately they began to run towards Kṛṣṇa. Somebody is taking care of children, somebody is engaged in boiling milk, and somebody was even lying down with her husband. Still, immediately... Very crude, unsophisticated, but intense love for Kṛṣṇa—that is Vṛndāvana. We want to introduce this farm project means intense love for Kṛṣṇa. And other things—very simple: little milk, little food grain, little vegetable, that's all. And that is very nice. If you get fresh vegetable, fresh milk, and food grain, what do you want more? And from milk you can prepare so many nice preparations, unlimited number, all very palatable, sweet. This civilization we want to introduce, not so-called rascal civilization and become implicated in this cycle of birth and death. This is not civilization. This is killing civilization. Human being got the opportunity to get out of these clutches of birth and death. They do not understand. They're so rascal, they do not understand how they are implicated in this cycle of birth and death, nor they do take it seriously, that this is the problem, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). They are so blind rascals, they do not see that this is real suffering. They do not know it. Simply theorizing, making plan, and they do not know what is the suffering. Such a rascal civilization. So we have to introduce real civilization. Therefore we are struggling so hard. So make in such a way. That's a very nice place, center of Europe and very nice place. What is the condition of rainfall?

Train Conversation -- February 4, 1977, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: Yes. But if you are engaged in preaching, you are not affected. (break) ...Himalaya just to avoid seeing the face of the vicious.

Satsvarūpa: In Bhagavad-gītā one of the items of knowledge is to go to a solitary place...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: ...and avoid the congested...

Prabhupāda: Practice yoga—solitary place, sacred and solitary. What is this circle we see in morning? Simply "Cāi, cāi, cāi." And cigarette, biḍi, and talking nonsense, drinking, no arrangement. Vedic system, still in India in morning they take bath, in the villages. In the cities also, those who come from village, you'll find in Bombay this side, many poor men, they're taking early in the morning bathing. You have seen that?

Satsvarūpa: Yes, Juhu.

Prabhupāda: Not only Juhu. Olee(?). They'll wash their floor, take bath. In village also they'll go to the well and take water. (end)

Room Conversation -- February 12, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Fertile.

Jayapatākā: ...fertile and particularly fine soil that has to be dug and chopped and cleaned out.

Prabhupāda: Ordinary soil flower does not grow?

Jayapatākā: No, it... Not so well. In our city project we are thinking that those laborers who would be devotees, mostly the labor class, they won't like to live separate from their families. So we were thinking that they could be paid something, and then they would give half of that, as you suggested, back. In this way they would be devotees, And they would eat prasāda with everyone and attend all the programs, but they'd buy their own cloth and things with the other half. But they would have to have separate quarters somewhere.

Prabhupāda: Where? Within our campus or outside?

Jayapatākā: That would be a separate area. Of course, in that vast city project there was enough room for different quarters where one place brahmacārīs could stay, other place, families. Just like now it's actually getting overcrowded for the handlooms. We should have a separate, one big handloom place. That would be more efficient.

Prabhupāda: Where you have?

Jayapatākā: Where... Just the place would have to be... Their place is a bit irregular. Seeing the ultimate plan, we have to find out one place. It would be in this area somewhere. Now they're keeping records of how much is spent on agriculture, and how much is received. So what is the profit or loss, that can be ascertained. And actually that's not such a threat because I know that many of the things he is doing by contract. If at some time we need outside laborer for, say, harvest time, we need to harvest—so we pay them ten rupees or twenty rupees to harvest one bighā. So there is no question of labor. That is the contract.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: But in most of our temples, the duties are either Deity worship, brāhmaṇa...

Prabhupāda: Brāhmaṇas are available. Why you are bothering about this? Brāhmaṇas are also available, śūdras are also available. Why śūdra should be artificially become a brāhmaṇa?

Satsvarūpa: What will the śūdras do in the big city temple, in all the temples?

Prabhupāda: Why you are bringing our temples? I am talking of the principle.

Satsvarūpa: Oh.

Hari-śauri: The principle we follow. We're just thinking how it can be implemented. You were saying that it should be started in our society.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is a very broad idea. Now we are speaking of some of them, training them. That is another thing. That is small scale.

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Brahmānanda: Within the courtyard?

Prabhupāda: Not courtyard. Within the boundary, compound. The ramma badhi, vaihama badhi, merde badhi, purusdera badhi,(?) four different courtyards. And who cared for city life in those days? Nobody. Everyone was satisfied in village. General people, they would not come to city. Only servant class. What business they have got from the city? Because their main income from the field, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. What they have got to do with the city? In the city, big, big zamindars, personally they had nothing to do. They are managers and sircars(?) were collecting money. That's all. And their extra money, they're constructing Ṭhākura Badhi,(?) temple, just like that Mullick's Ṭhākura Badhi, and festival going on. That was aristocracy. They devoted their money for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What is that? You have seen the Bengali?

Brahmānanda: Yes. This is being reprinted? Gopāla Kṛṣṇa Prabhu is doing very nicely in printing.

Prabhupāda: Hm. He has got good engagement. (break) ...his magazine.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Oh, I think about 1928, long ago, because about twenty years ago there was centenary, hundred years. So the local produce was not exported. Everything was cheap in the village because you have to consume. Whatever is produced in the village you have to consume. And these Britishers, they introduced railway and drew everything in the village to the town. And they would not sell in the village because they would get good price in the city. Otherwise in the village, everything was very cheap, very, very cheap-milk, vegetables, rice, dāl, everything. And the Britishers, they had no food. They have got only the potato. In England what they produce? No food. So everything was exported. Their policy was to supply manufactured goods and take raw materials from India. So they supplied cotton goods. They saw that all Indians are using cotton cloth. Iron they introduced. They introduced railway line, all iron, the carriage, the wheel, the road. Everything was... In this way they became prosperous. And the Indian people, they saw... They were educated because they are fond of going to pilgrimage by walking. They would go... Suppose from here, Navadvīpa, one has to go to Vṛndāvana. He would make his will, because he does not know whether he'll come back or not. Long distance, thousand miles, you have to go by, on leg. They used to go. So they were advertised that "No. Now you'll have not to walk. The Company, they're making very easy going railway." So they received it, "Oh! (Hindi)" (laughs) But their idea was to draw all the raw materials from villages and send it to England.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll leave. So we should not encourage that at all. I think it's different than here.

Prabhupāda: No, their attention should be in chanting. And produce their own food, agriculture. And as soon as they get English education, then... Not "as soon as," but not all of them are fit for being educated. It is not possible. They are śūdra class of men. What he will be educated? Śūdra, vaiśya, they should learn how to plow, how to produce food. They are thinking otherwise, that "Plowing is great labor. If we educate our boys in English, they can go to the city. Immediately they get some..."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Get more money, work less."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually it is not the position, but they're thinking like that. Everyone wants to work less and get more money. That is Marshall's theory of economic impetus. From Germany also there is a bad report.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Germany bad report. Brazil. Not Brazil...

Prabhupāda: Argentina.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Argentina. And now Caracas, they're investigating the accounts, auditing the accounts.

Prabhupāda: Why they are against the book?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because... They're not against the books. They're against the money, the huge money that they see the books are getting. They're not even against the books. They're against the process of collecting money. Books, they don't care one way or the other, but the fact that we're collecting so much money, that is surprising them.

Hari-śauri: They think we're just going on the street begging money and then living nice life.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See at first... At first they don't take us very seriously. They think, "Well, a few beggars." But then they start to see one skyscraper...

Prabhupāda: All beggars. (laughs)

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, here also, in India. That is very good, honest.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And it's very spiritual. There is no contamination there.

Prabhupāda: Now in Hyderabad we have got the farm. We can produce ghee and grains and make restaurant.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Hyderabad.

Prabhupāda: City.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Especially the location of our temple is so first class.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The center of the town.

Prabhupāda: You can have very nice center for restaurant. And in these cities they like nice restaurant.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can compete with G. Polareddy.

Prabhupāda: No, he's a sweet man. He has no restaurant.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Vṛndāvana hotel in our quar...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That's a good... That will be very popular, restaurants, especially prasādam restaurant. If they know it is... If it is pure... Because I know. I was eating in many restaurants in different cities before you told us that we shouldn't do that, and people go there because there's nowhere else to go. But it's never that clean, nor is it very good. But the office people, they have to eat somewhere.

Prabhupāda: Formerly they used to be, because that was not restaurant. Restaurant in Indian style, they were selling paraṭā. In Delhi there are many. So those who were interested with paraṭā, they'll sit down and they will supply first-class paraṭā and vegetables.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. That's not there anymore. In Bombay the only good restaurant... There is a Marwari restaurant where they have this dower(?) system. But there's only one, and it's in Kalpadevi, so hardly anyone will go there anyway. No office people go there. Only the Marwaris go there.

Prabhupāda: No, Bombay there are so many restaurants.

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. In New York you don't get any kind of... It's called a "melting pot." No one minds. Hare Kṛṣṇa is accepted there. First place that you...

Prabhupāda: I remember. We have started from New York.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dhṛṣṭadyumna Mahārāja is taking up also working with the Indian communities around the country. He's finding great receptivity. In many of the cities the Indian community is willing to purchase buildings. Dhṛṣṭadyumna is going to cities where we don't have temples yet. But there's still big cities, and the Indian communities there are very eager.

Prabhupāda: Eager?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, very eager, yes. (break) ...Cincinnati, immediately this man he met, he immediately he got five hundred of them enrolled as members, life members.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This one gentleman in Cincinnati. And there are many prominent Indians around the country.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Many of them, yes.

Prabhupāda: Well-to-do also. They are well-to-do.

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Same position.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is the traditional system. After you win the case, then you turn around and sue them. We may not get, because we're suing the city. Anyway, then we can get more opportunity for furthering our propaganda if we file another suit. Tomorrow will you go on a walk, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: I can go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Will you be walking on the roof or down below? Which do you prefer?

Prabhupāda: I can go down very well.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You like it down.

Prabhupāda: On the pond side

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would you like us to bring that chair over to the pond to carry you up to the pond?

Prabhupāda: No.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This is their civilization, vagina civilization. In Florida they go, Miami, to spend money weekly, five hundred, five thousand dollars for naked dance. You know that?

Hari-śauri: Yes. So many places. Las Vegas. Every big city has...

Prabhupāda: And Brahmānanda told me sometimes they see on the stage a fatty woman having sex with an ass. This is exhibited in Mexico. And they enjoy it.

Hari-śauri: In Europe they have sex fairs.

Prabhupāda: Sex fair? What is that?

Hari-śauri: You can go, and they have sideshows, men and women having sex on the stage at regular intervals, and they exhibit all kinds of contraptions that you can use to pervert your sex life even more.

Prabhupāda: What they will understand about this Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Hari-śauri: There's not very much hope for them.

Prabhupāda: Help is for everyone, but if they remain stubborn to their own way of life, then it is not possible. They have to wash the brain. Otherwise it is possible.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Help is for everyone, but if they remain stubborn to their own way of life, then it is not possible. They have to wash the brain. Otherwise it is possible.

Hari-śauri: You explain in the Bhāgavatam that everything actually is just an extension of the sex desire.

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Hari-śauri: Their whole big cities and so much industry...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: ...and work is just simply...

Prabhupāda: For the central point-vagina. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). The other day... Maithunyam agāram ajñaḥ vindati tāpān.

Hari-śauri: Ṛṣabhadeva's instructions. (end)

Room Conversation -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Our real damage is there. Otherwise let them do whatever they like.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But I want to explain that. In other words... I'll give you an example. Now they have learned that the way they can hurt us is through book distribution. They're understanding that. For example, now in about three or four different cities they are going to the airports where we do our big book distribution. And three or four people are engaged to break up all the sales. This happened in Chicago, it happened in San Diego and it happened in Minneapolis all within the last two or three months.

Hari-śauri: Still happening there?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Minneapolis it's still happening, and San Diego, it's still happening. They learned it from the Yanoff case. That Yanoff issue in Chicago. The deprogrammers then wrote to each other that "This is a very effective means to cripple their activities, because they will yield to this pressure."

Prabhupāda: That they will try, but we can find out another avenue.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So let us go, our whole party.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want to stay in Bombay, stay until the... Is there any date until?

Prabhupāda: I don't want to stay anywhere. I want work.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So there's work everywhere. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Staying, I have stayed big, big palaces, big, big cities. That is now complete. I have no other desire.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How long do you want to work in Bombay? I mean, till...

Prabhupāda: So long there is work. There is no end of it. Our Bombay should be organized. Work is our life. There is no question of "How long?" As long as possible. Kṛṣṇa giving us good opportunities. Now we should take it seriously. It is not joke. "Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is bona fide religion."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, that will be...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very important.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, especially in the United States.

Prabhupāda: New York high-court decision.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: What is that civilization? Do they think that civilization is correct?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say that they are the most advanced civilization ever. This is the topmost yet. Man is becoming more and more evolved, from the ape until now. This is the pinnacle so far.

Prabhupāda: And what you have gained? Criminals, fire brigade, always "dungdungdungdungdungdung," in every big city. And criminality increasing. Do you think it is civilization? Always anxious, and covering yourself by drinking, intoxicated. In New York street you would go out ordinary-hell! Two sides hell.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And it has become worse in the last ten years. It is much worse.

Prabhupāda: It must become worse.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is not safe now for anyone to walk on the street at night.

Prabhupāda: Night or daylight, it is not.

Devotee: So many robbers.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, worse than robbers. I was in Central Park when I was a young boy, only five years old... (door opens)

Prabhupāda: Who is come? Let him out.(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a painting that one boy has done here which is not perfectly done, and he wants to get your advice on it.

Prabhupāda: No, no. I cannot give him advice on painting. I have no experience. He should go to the painter.

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: How is that vegetable market? There is wholesale vegetable market.

Jayatīrtha: Not a very big one.(?)

Prabhupāda: Near I saw there is very big press.

Jayatīrtha: London's a fantastic city for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Jayatīrtha: Very good.

Prabhupāda: On whole, they like it?

Jayatīrtha: Yes, especially our kīrtana parties on Oxford Street and Picadilly Circus. They like that very much. Sometimes we get a thousand people standing around our kīrtana party, Picadilly Circus and Leicester Square, places like that.

Prabhupāda: So what about that house?

Jayatīrtha: That house? We've purchased now and we're fixing it up.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jayatīrtha: We're fixing it up just now for using. We should be using it within about two months.

Prabhupāda: What is the name of that place?

Jayatīrtha: Soho Square.

Prabhupāda: The same house which you showed me?

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So there we shall have restaurant?

Jayatīrtha: Yes. It should be very successful. Restaurants in that area... Vegetarian restaurants... There's one that sells about ten thousand pounds (sterling) a week of food. So ours may not be quite that big.

Prabhupāda: So we have already started restaurant? No.

Jayatīrtha: Not yet. It takes some time. We just got permission finally from the planning commission from the city. That was a technicality. But we just got that. There was no problem. Now we're starting to do the refurbishing. We have to do a lot of painting and...

Prabhupāda: So we shall move from Bury Place there? No.

Jayatīrtha: No. We want to build a very nice temple and cultural center in London. The Indian community is very anxious for that actually. They're spread out, the Indians, in Wembley and South Hall and different areas. And they have a few very lousy local temples. But they know that we're the only ones who can build a very nice place, so they're interested in helping us build a very big place as close to the center of London as possible.

Prabhupāda: So you have got any place? No.

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Jayatīrtha: ...Liverpool-Manchester area.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That will be nice. Take the Ratha-yātrā along—we have this bus program—do publicity with the bus program, and then, at the end of the month, have a Ratha-yātrā somewhere in the city. I think if we keep the small cart, do at least three Ratha-yātrās this summer... Our big car is there?

Jayatīrtha: It's still standing.

Prabhupāda: So that we can move? No, that will not be possible.

Jayatīrtha: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Could you do big ones in other places?

Jayatīrtha: It may be. We have to investigate.

Hṛdayānanda: There's no place in London where you can do big carts?

Jayatīrtha: It depends. In the Hindu quarters I don't think they could stop us. But in other quarters they would.

Prabhupāda: The Watsford area there are many Hindus.

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: The Watsford area there are many Hindus.

Jayatīrtha: Few in Watsford. Mostly down by Wembley, which is not very far from Watsford. It's only three stops on the tube. I think they may let us do a big cart there. And in other cities they may also. We just came to this idea recently to do them in other cities, because especially in the Mid... It's called the Midlands. There is Leicester and Coventry and many cities with many Hindus there. And those people up in those cities, sometimes they're more pious than the London Hindus. They're very... One of our life membership makers in the north made twenty-four members in two weeks.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jayatīrtha: In the north they're very active there, and they're very anxious for some interest by us for them. Anyway, at least we could have three smaller Ratha-yātrās this year in different places.

Prabhupāda: Simply by Ratha-yātrā, you can attract many people. So still we are going to that Trafalgar Square?

Jayatīrtha: Yes. It's hard, though.

Prabhupāda: The crowd is the same? No. Diminished.

Arrival of Devotees -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Rāmeśvara: This is very timely, because the President's mother, of United States, just came to India, and it's all over the American press how she was in the Peace Corps. So this book, the copy on the back cover, "A search for meaning carries a young American Peace Corps worker to ancient city in West Bengal..." There he meets you and finds out everything he ever wanted to know. It's very timely.

Gargamuni: Why don't you put the Jimmy Carter quote on it too?

Rādhā-vallabha: This is Satsvarūpa's book.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Buses arrived?

Gargamuni: One has come. The other nine will be at least another half hour or so.

Prabhupāda: Nine bus?

Gargamuni: Ten total.

Arrival of Devotees -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: These letters should be published.

Rādhā-vallabha: They're the second largest printer in America, and they say they've never printed so many of one book.

Rāmeśvara: We had a ceremony for our new warehouse, opening up of the new warehouse, and they published one article in the papers in California. It circulates about almost fifty thousand, this local paper. It says, "Hare Kṛṣṇa publishing office opens. Culver City councilman Paul Jacobs, assisted by Hare Kṛṣṇa leaders, cut the ceremonial ribbon last week at the grand opening of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement's new office building in Culver City Business Park at 8500 Higuera Street. The new 30,000 square foot warehouse and office building will house the organization's publishing arm, the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, parentheses, BBT. BBT prints millions of dollars' worth of books every year and is the world's largest publisher and distributor of books on the culture, religion and philosophy of India."

Prabhupāda: Present this in the court.

Evening Darsana -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Bali-mardana: Oh, yes. You are purchasing. I am only the agent. Here is the...

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Bali-mardana: From outside it looks very good. From the inside, it needs a lot of work. That is...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bali-mardana: It is... And the..., three minutes from the center of the city, and right across the street... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...earning and cow protection. You must do it. The other day I was explaining that not from economic point of view, even the cows do not supply milk, still, they should be protected.

Bali-mardana: Hm. Just to protect them.

Prabhupāda: Because that stool and urine is also useful. Cow is so important. They'll eat and they'll pass stool and urine. That is also important. If they supply milk, it is well, very good. Otherwise the stool and urine is also important. From that point of view we should give protection. So they are doing this cow slaughter business. (aside:) For you. Therefore they are suffering so much. So Kṛṣṇa has given you very nice occupation, translation work, and you are earning your livelihood independently. So do it very nicely. And if there is strain to work, then don't work. We shall pay you for the rent, etc... It doesn't matter. But you must maintain your status of translating work. That is very good. If you can work, you can work. Otherwise don't worry.

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: Then, preaching centers: Preaching centers in the US can be opened by approval at the yearly meeting of the GBC...

Prabhupāda: Good.

Satsvarūpa: ...or during the year with consultation of three GBC members. But when the zonal GBC wants to open a permanent center in a city where there is a temporary center opened by a party like a Rādhā-Dāmodara party...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: ...then the jurisdiction of the temporary party would be turned over by Rādhā-Dāmodara to the GBC whose zone it is in.

Rāmeśvara: Provided it is approved by the GBC at the annual meeting.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So we shall have farm project, so we should think... (break)

Satsvarūpa: You want to hear the rest of our resolutions, Śrīla Prabhupāda? We were about to read the preaching centers that were proposed by the different GBC members to be opened during the year. The GBC permission was given to the following GBC secretaries to open the following preaching centers in the next year. In the US, Balavanta dāsa to open centers, permission for Knoxville, Tennessee; Columbia, South Carolina; Gatlinburg, Tennessee. And he has already opened a preaching center in Charlotte, North Carolina, and wants to open another one in Nashville, Tennessee. Then the zone of Tamāla Kṛṣṇa dāsa Goswami and Ādi-keśava Mahārāja for the Rādhā-Dāmodara parties, the following preaching centers were just opened and now approved under the provisions and conditions as stated in the general resolution for preaching centers in another GBC's zone: Cincinnati, Ohio; Lexington, Kentucky; Louisville, Kentucky; Indianapolis, Indiana; Lafayette, Indiana; Terhow, Indiana; Kansas City; Durham, North Carolina; Richmond, Virginia; Memphis, Tennessee; Oklahoma City; El Paso, Texas; Madison, Wisconsin; Milwaukee, Wisconsin; Peoria, Illinois; and Carbondale, Illinois.

Rāmeśvara: Every town and village.

Satsvarūpa: The following centers are opened out of New York Temple: New Haven, Connecticut; Long Island, New York; New Brunswick, New Jersey...

Prabhupāda: It is open?

Satsvarūpa: Yes, these are opened already.

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Satsvarūpa: And in the Virgin Islands, two cities—St. Thomas and Aruba. And then for the coming year, permission given for opening centers in Phoenix and Albany. I was given permission for opening preaching center in San Francisco and in Colleen, Texas. Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja already has opened an approved center in Bloomington, Indiana; and Columbus, Ohio; and in the coming year can open in Morgantown, West Virginia; Dayton and Toledo, Ohio. Rāmeśvara Mahārāja has already established preaching centers in Las Vegas and Salt Lake City, Utaḥ. Permission given for opening preaching center in San Antonio, Texas; Omaha, Nebraska; Albuquerque, New Mexico...

Prabhupāda: Las Vegas is a dangerous place? Eh? Do...?

Rāmeśvara: It is now dangerous for the conditioned soul, 'cause we are passing out your books there. It has become dangerous for the demons. They will lose their demoniac nature by this book distribution.

Brahmānanda: That is the center of the gambling in America.

Hṛdayānanda: Gambling, prostitution, intoxication.

Rāmeśvara: The whole city is managed by criminals. But they have given us permission to sell books in the airport.

Prabhupāda: Oh. That's nice.

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: Then... Also, Rāmeśvara permission to open in the summer to cover these national parks: Yosemite, Yellowstone and Mount Rushmore. In South America, Pañcadraviḍa Swami permission for the next year to open Monterrey, Mexico; Guatemala, and Panama; Medellin, Columbia. Hṛdayānanda dāsa Gosvāmī, permission for a few cities in Brazil, Bolivia, and Valencia, Venezuela. In Europe, Bhagavān dāsa given permission to open centers in Barcelona, Spain; Lisbon, Portugal; Milan, Italy; and Harikeśa Swami has already started centers in Berlin, Zurich, Helsinki, Hamburg and... Rockshaw?

Harikeśa: Warsaw.(?)

Satsvarūpa: Permission given for Norway, Vienna and Copenhagan for the next year. Brahmānanda Mahārāja has been given permission to turn the following preaching centers into temples with Deities: Mombassa and Mauritius, and permission for a new center in Lagos.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nigeria?

Hṛdayānanda: Preaching center in Nigeria. Richest African country.

Satsvarūpa: Bali-mardana has been given permission to move the Adelaide center to the Australian farm. Ātreya Ṛṣi permission to open centers in Karachi and Istanbul. Jayapatākā Mahārāja permission to open Panihati and Dacca. And Haṁsadūta Mahārāja in South India, Bangalore, Madras, Kodaikanal, Colombo in Ceylon, and Kathmandu, Nepal; and Goa.

Prabhupāda: Lage laghu.(?) Very good.

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And if we find that there's good...

Prabhupāda: The devotees.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And if there's good reaction from the people in the city, then later on we can propose to install Deities.

Satsvarūpa: Then we switched onto other topics. There was a resolution that there will be no marriages of girls until they are sixteen years old, not before.

Pañcadraviḍa: What about the schools?

Gargamuni: That's for America.

Rāmeśvara: In America.

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (1): We'll try to follow your message properly.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Why India's such big culture should be lost for the matter of these rascal leaders? This should be stopped. As Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma (BG 4.13). There must be ideal brāhmaṇa, ideal kṣatriya, ideal vaiśya, as Kṛṣṇa says. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is all-inclusive. Economic question? Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Grow food. Practical. Just like when I was going to the pandals, millions of clerks were coming—"Education. Educated." And who is growing food? And they have to be provided in these pigeon holes and depend on ration. Is that civilization? And throngs of people are coming, just like machine, ants. Ants are coming. I saw like that. And go to the village side—all vacant land. Nobody's interested to produce food. Everyone is interested to live within the city, in these pigeonholes, and go to the cinema and go to the brothel, go to the club and learn how to drink, how to become gentleman. Is that civilization? Human life's aim is lost. You do not know why you are going to the office, why you are eating, why you are... Keeping them all pet animal's mentality, doggish mentality. We have explained. University education means doggish mentality. Unless he becomes a dog, there is no food. No, the dog goes...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wagging it's tail.

Prabhupāda: "Give me some food." "Hut hut hut!" Then another animal.(?) And as soon as you give some food, oh, so many—"ka,ka,ka,ka,ka,ka,ka." For five hundred posts, 300,000 applications. Did you see that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Coming in Churchgate.

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. WHO. Geneva.

Prabhupāda: A butchers' health organization. Take these ideas all, there, everything is there, already mentioned. Cultivate. Try to give Kṛṣṇa in every... Let everyone come, stay with us, learn this art, preach all over the world. And Bombay is a city where you'll get all kind of help. Besides that, we shall get help from all over the world. But do it very cautiously, thoroughly. You don't take it as insignificant thing. Very important thing. I am talking of this Māyāpur. So this is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya. Why He's stressing bhārata-bhūmi? Yes. It's a fact. Real knowledge is here, Bhagavad-gītā. Speaking Kṛṣṇa Himself. Why such knowledge should be denied? Is that all right?

Pañcadraviḍa: To lose this knowledge? No, it's not all right.

Prabhupāda: People are in darkness. To keep them like dogs, hogs, camels, and take vote from them and become a leader... Nobody protested that we call all the men dogs, hogs, camels. Nobody came forward, that "You are using very strong words." It's a fact.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Śrīdhara: There was nice crowd, all respectable men also. Tonight it will be bigger.

Gargamuni: Sunday is always the biggest.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I find Bombay people are a little bit more open-minded.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Bombay is the best city in India, undoubtedly. From the very beginning, and the richest city. The government revenue is collected from Bombay sixty-three percent. Bombay is so rich. Sixty-three percent from Bombay and thirty-seven percent from whole of India. That is the position.

Śrīdhara: Calcutta is also very wealthy.

Prabhupāda: No.

Girirāja: They keep the money in black.

Śrīdhara: Oh, in black money.

Prabhupāda: And religiously-minded.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Indian man: Śrīla Prabhupāda (Hindi).

Prabhupāda: Nei. Develop farms.

Hari-śauri: There's an eight-hundred-acre farm we are getting in Australia. The devotees are very enthusiastic for it, because in the past we haven't been able to make so many new devotees. They are not very much attracted to living in the cities in Australia. But they think that the farm... Then that will expand a lot. Probably this region we can grow everything, fruits, all kinds of tropical fruits, and cows.

Prabhupāda: Fruit, grains and milk. Vegetables. Finished everything.(?)

Hari-śauri: Flowers... Svarūpa Dāmodara was also suggesting that in a little while I might like to arrange a tour of the universities there, for he and Mādhava and Sadāpūta. Then it will be very good. Because there is a man that Svarūpa Dāmodara used to study under who is in Metrope(?) University in Melbourne. So I can arrange something there. (end)

Room Conversation First Day in Juhu Quarters -- March 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I think I haven't got such place to live anywhere in the world.

Gargamuni: It's actually your own building.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This apartment is the best actually.

Prabhupāda: Los Angeles and in New York, big, big cities they are—London, Paris. But nobody can present such luxurious royal palace.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The drama was very appreciated last night. Samayadi was watching it with us, and he said he would like to arrange a big program in his house.

Prabhupāda: Old Samayadi or his son?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: His son. He liked the drama very much.

Lokanātha: It has become one of the main attractions of the public, this Vaikuṇṭha Player performance(?). After..., two nights after the program, I inquired from the public on the microphone, "Do you like this drama?" Immediately everybody raised their hands: "Yes!"

Prabhupāda: They were asking me whether they are professional men. "No, no, these all my disciples."

Room Conversation -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Especially in New York, Los Angeles. In all cities. You can give report. You know very well. They are doing all right?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I came about more than a month now.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. When you were there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. In Washington and in Atlanta and Florida...

Prabhupāda: That standard should be maintained. Everywhere.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It will be nicer now after the court case. All the devotees must be very enthused now because court was very favorable, New York case.

Prabhupāda: How is Vṛndāvana going on?

Dhanañjaya: By your mercy, Śrīla Prabhupāda is there. Our community is growing very nicely. The festival is very successful. Everyone enjoyed very much—kīrtanas and all the different programs.

Lokanātha: At Janmasthāna we had program last year, for four days having programs. Same as we have here. Kīrtanas, discourses, dramas, cinemas, prasādam distribution, book distribution. Many, many people came. Whole ground was...

Prabhupāda: This year or last year?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This year. Over ten thousand people came.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So you see our temple there.

Dr. Sharma: Yeah, I have been to your temple in Buffalo. I was in your temple in Winnipeg, Canada.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Those are very small.

Dr. Sharma: Yes, small ones. But Winnipeg is all... But it was all right for such a small, but very well maintained, very well maintained. In London I haven't gone, because I stayed far away from the city.

Prabhupāda: We have got two temples in London. One in the city, and one in the border of London. That is very big temple. Seventeen acres of land. George Harrison has given us that property.

Guests: (talking about George Harrison)

Dr. Sharma: No, you are mistaken. George Harrison is a different... Rex Harrison is a British actor.

Prabhupāda: George Harrison of the Beatle group.

Conversations -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: He does not like to interfere with his guru. He is doing everything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe Girirāja should be called up. When they come, then we can read this article out loud. Says here, "Asked whether his city..."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Asked whether his city..."

Prabhupāda: "His city"?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: What is that? "Asked..."?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Says, "Asked whether his city would not meet the same fate as Auroville..." It's not his city.

Prabhupāda: He can say that he has taken sannyāsa for his popularization?(?) (Surabhīr Abhipālayantam enters, offers obeisances) Did you consult this article with others' consultation or by whimsical joke?

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: It could be...

Prabhupāda: This article...

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: Yes.

Conversations -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Where? There's no mention, as if you are doing everything.

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: The first thing he...

Prabhupāda: This article shows that you are doing everything, and they are asking, "your city"? They have asked. Is that your city?

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: But they have concocted that, because this was not how the interview was...

Prabhupāda: Concocted, no. It is published. You have published a very great objectionable article without consulting others. Now you should not do anything without consulting others. I cannot allow this.

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: My intention was only to...

Prabhupāda: No intention. Simply your name, you are everything, that's all. This is not well(?). You do not mention even your guru's name.

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: We gave him a paper with all the things they had to put in there, very...

Prabhupāda: And they have deleted your guru's name and others' name, and they have intentionally said, "your city," as if you are doing everything, you are getting money. How is this? You again protest that "I gave you. Why you have published this? Again you have..." Give them protest.

Conversations -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Is there name, others' name, in your original article? Where is that original article?

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: Well, we have given them a booklet which...

Prabhupāda: Again "booklet." You are publishing article. What is the use of booklet? Why they will take care of a booklet? Take articles and... They have given, asked you, "your city." Where is that article?

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: I can't explain it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Asked whether his city would not meet the same fate as Auroville..."

Prabhupāda: "His city." Your city.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "...Swami said..."

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: Yeah, I never said this to him. We didn't even talk about city.

Prabhupāda: So how is that, without your saying, they are publishing?

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: He did it in the same way as the other...

Prabhupāda: Your photograph is there. That is also, they have done? Or you have given your photograph?

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: They took a picture. I have only given them this picture and this picture.

Conversations -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Not a single man's name is there. "The Swami," your photograph... Nothing.

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: We will go immediately. I will go today, immediately.

Prabhupāda: But what is published, that is already damage.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes they will retract it.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they asked you, "your city," "his city," "will build a center, fantastic..."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, no one's going to give it any credence.

Prabhupāda: It is most objectionable article. So you are doing things very, full independently. This is not very good. The impression will be that "Surabhī Swami has come to construct this city. He is cheating," like that, as if everything doing, you are the all and all. That's... No other. And "the temple will be Kṛṣṇa." Just show him, "the temple of Kṛṣṇa." You do not know what is, the temple will be? Clearly mentioned. They have also manufactured? They have manufactured? What is this?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "The center of the planetarium will be the temple of Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: Just see. It is their manufacture?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "The planetarium and temple alone will be estimated to cost rupees seventy crores."

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. But it is not going to be Kṛṣṇa's temple.

Conversations -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. But it is not going to be Kṛṣṇa's temple.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that's the point.

Prabhupāda: And they have manufactured this?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says here, "The whole city is expected to... The temple... The planetarium will be ready in three years." But how is that possible to be built...? And that "The whole city will be done in ten years." Says here, "A Vedic city with fifty thousand brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas and śūdras living around a Kṛṣṇa temple."

Prabhupāda: So they have criticized that "Your city, there will be forty...," "Aurobindo..." You have seen it?

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Asked whether his city would not meet the same fate as Auroville..."

Prabhupāda: That...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "It was started nine years ago near Pondicherry with the same target of fifty thousand but has still a population of only four hundred, mostly foreigners." In other words, this is... The idea is that just as Auroville is a farce, any one of us, we're also farcical.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is... It is very good farce. That is the... Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's the implication.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversations -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And your name is mentioned in every line, your photograph, as if you are doing everything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's another article in here about the Bhaktivedanta Institute. Have you seen it?

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It appears just below this article. "ISKCON Branch in City from October, by a staff reporter. A branch of the Bhaktivedanta Institute, the center for advanced learning and research of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, ISKCON, based in Washington, D.C., is scheduled to be opened in October at Hare Krishna Land in Juhu. This was stated by Dr. Thoudam Dāmodara Singh in Bombay on Tuesday. Dr. Singh, who is in charge of the arrangements for the opening, told a press conference that the Institute presents in a modern format the higher sciences of the ancient Vedantic literatures. In Bombay, Dr. Singh said, the Institute will publish scientific articles, monographs, and the journal 'Sa-vijñānam, Scientific Knowledge,' regularly." That's the whole article. Again Your Divine Grace's name is not mentioned. Of course, it says, "Bhaktivedanta Institute," but still, it's not... Yeah, it was a very good opportunity that we could present our program, but somehow it... Where did they get these figures of "three years"and "ten years"? I mean, how could they have just concocted "three years" and "ten years" unless you told them?

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: I...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But how did they get these figures? How does someone manufacture that we will spend seventy crores in three years? (pause) It seems like they have tricked you. You must have made a statement, and they...

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: They fabricated. That's the whole thing.

Prabhupāda: How they can fabricate in their own way? From... (pause) Rather, they have criticized that "This fantastic thing, it is going to be like Aurobindo's city, list of fifty thousand, 404 acres." They are not taking it very seriously. Otherwise why he has remarked? Indirectly he has said, "This man is speaking like lunatic." They are not taking very seriously. That very remark shows that "It is going to be meet the same fate." So many fantastic ideas.

Conversations -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now immediately a vote should be formed. You cannot do independently. That will not be allowed, anything. In Bengali there is a word, pañce mili kare kārya, hari duḥkhi nāhi lasa(?): "If you do something, combined together, five men, then whether you are defeated or you are victorious, there is nothing to be shameful." Hari duḥkhi nāhi lasa. So you are doing everything independent. We do not like to interfere with your business. You become angry. So that should be stopped. You cannot be allowed. You'll be (indistinct). It has no meaning. (pause) What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is a... I don't know if... You gave this to the press? This was given to the press. "Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. ISKCON Candrodaya City at Śrīdhāma Māyāpur."

Prabhupāda: What is this? Not from our letter given?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says, "The birthplace of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu in the district Nadia, prepared under the direction of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda and by his disciples, His Holiness Surabhīr Abhipālayantam Swami, ISKCON Māyāpur Project architect and director of construction; His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami, ISKCON Māyāpur project president and Governing Body Commissioner; Śrī Patita Pāvana dāsa Brahmacārī, Bhakti Śāstrī, ISKCON Māyāpur; and the editors of Back to Godhead magazine, ISKCON Press, Los Angeles, California."

Prabhupāda: Perfect article.

Conversations -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: Nitāi did.

Prabhupāda: Who wrote?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nitāi. This is an article previously published in Back to Godhead, written by Nitāi a couple years ago. "Part Two: A General Description of ISKCON's Spiritual City in Māyāpur. A Short History of ISKCON Māyāpur." It gives a description of their history. "When one of the first American devotees of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, ISKCON, heard in 1970 from the Society's Founder-Ācārya, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda..."

Prabhupāda: Everywhere there is founder-ācārya's name, but not a single line...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right.

Prabhupāda: So they have purposefully avoided and given "His Holiness"?

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: I all the time insisted on this, that it has to be written down...

Prabhupāda: Your photograph and your name and nothing else.

Conversations -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's nothing objectionable in here, but it should be understood...

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is not... It is written, "The Founder-Ācārya," written clearly.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, clearly.

Prabhupāda: But how is that, they have avoided everything else? "Surabhī Swami is doing. It is his city." They're asking, "his city." And where is such incidence that any project, without mentioning the project makers, the architect's name... Where is that incidence, that "Here is the architect, architect, architect"? Nobody finds.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You look at any project in Bombay that's coming up, or anywhere in India. They'll always mention who is going to use the building or who is..., who paid for it. Hardly ever... If anything, the architect's name is mentioned in one line, "designed by so and so." But the architect never holds the press conference. That's another... I mean, I never heard of an architect holding a press conference. Neither I have heard the architect doing so many of the other things which the architect is doing. That, I think, is the essential thing. Whenever Bhavānanda Mahārāja...

Prabhupāda: Anyway, you form immediately joint committee. You cannot do independently. That is not possible. Whatever is done is done. Now, henceforward, you should be guarded. You, you published that article?

Patita-pāvana: What is that?

Prabhupāda: The Times of India?

Patita-pāvana: Pardon me, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Conversations -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So what kind of interview, that Saurabha is everything? Architect? Architect is everything?

Patita-pāvana: This is a great mistake. Surabhī Mahārāja did not want that. He specifically said, and we also told him, "You must put this, 'Founder-Ācārya His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda.' " He said it definitely, I said it, and I wrote it down. And I wrote it down, I think, two places for him. And then it was also written down on our release, "disciples of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda."

Prabhupāda: So how is that, nobody's name is there, only Saurabha's? And they have mentioned, "his city."

Patita-pāvana: Oh, no. That is not good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They mentioned that "Will his city be like Auroville?" And the answer's given, "No, it won't."

Patita-pāvana: The answer's good, but the question's not.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, the answer's not good either 'cause it's not his city. If you answer that question at all, it means that you accept that it's your city.

Patita-pāvana: Yeah, but they never asked him like that. This is simply this man's journalism.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But Prabhupāda's point is that everything has been printed. Whether they asked you or didn't ask you, now it's there in print and it can't be retracted.

Patita-pāvana: We could also have them write some article. I know the chief reporter there.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say you have done independently, whimsically. This is... This is to be stopped. You are acting too independent.

Room Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Amogha-līlā Prabhu has arranged a press conference today.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. Talk with them scientifically.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. That is at three o'clock.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Where it will be?

Girirāja: In the city, at... It's a vegetarian restaurant.

Prabhupāda: Never mind. Talk with them.

Girirāja: It's a popular place for press conferences.

Prabhupāda: So they know that the scientific...?

Girirāja: Oh, yeah, yeah. It's on the basis of science.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Girirāja: Scientific.

Prabhupāda: Now our commonsense reasoning, that there is children, there is mother—where is the father? We are laymen. Can you say, without father, the children is born?

Girirāja: No.

Conversation with Patita-pavana -- April 20, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So it is easy for us. What Kṛṣṇa says and Vyāsadeva says, that's all. We haven't got to manufacture. And as soon as you manufacture, fall down. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayaḥ... (BG 4.2). This manufacturing idea is very, very dangerous in spiritual life. Whatever little success is there for me, I did not manufacture any idea.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Neither you take any credit.

Prabhupāda: No. Why shall I take?

tāṅdera caraṇa-sevī-bhakta-sane vāsa
janame janame haya ei abhilāṣa

Our mission is to serve bhakta-viśeṣa and live with devotees. Not that you take the place of the guru. That is nonsense, very dangerous. Then everything will be spoiled. As soon as you become ambitious to take the place of guru-guruṣu nara-matiḥ. That is the material disease. The article clearly says that it is everything, "your city," "his city." That is clearly intimated that "You have dropped from the sky to give this city to the world." That is the sum and substance. Is it not? What is this nonsense? So do the needful.

Patita-pāvana: All right, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (devotees offer obeisances) (end)

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But there's a lot of trouble, martial law in three cities.

Prabhupāda: Now they are fighting. (break) ...they have ruined.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Pakistan?

Prabhupāda: Yes. And just see democracy. People demanding that "You resign." He'll... (break) ...and from the very beginning, Pakistan is controlled by crooked men. They are Muhammadans, rascals, crooked, not cultured, crude. You won't find amongst the Muhammadans very great mathematicians, philosophers, or highly... Very, very rare.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not considered a very high birth.

Prabhupāda: Condemned, especially the Indian Muhammadans. I had one friend. He is of Afghan... (background noise) What is the trouble?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just check...

Prabhupāda: So he was coming daily to see me in my pharmacy. We talked sometimes little intimately, friendly, with his son. So one day we were talking. Dr. Jīva also was attending. So one Muhammadan woman... They're very dirty. So she was passing to go to see doctor, and that... His name was Ser Khan. He belonged to the royal family of Afghanistan. So he was doing like this. So I said, "You hate Muhammadans? She is Muhammadan woman." "Oh, we don't accept Muhammadan. They are (indistinct)." That means Indian Muhammadans are not even accepted by the Muhammadans in other countries.

Conversation with Tamala Krsna about Yadubara -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Then we would show how Lord Kṛṣṇa's teachings are still manifest in India today by the nine devotional processes and the predominant role Kṛṣṇa plays in the culture and religious life of the people in temple worship, painting, dance, music and lifestyle, including offering and taking prasādam, varṇāśrama-dharma, etc... Then testimonials could be given by prominent supporters of our movement and perhaps a short statement by Your Divine Grace..."

Prabhupāda: There is some big, big temples and their proprietor... In every city there are so many Kṛṣṇa temples. Just like in Kanpur there is very important Dvārakādhīśa temple. Many such big cities they have got Kṛṣṇa's pastimes(?).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, at the end he would like to get "a short statement by Your Divine Grace in the movie on the importance of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in the world today. This film could, hopefully, be distributed to schools and colleges, showing that India is full of transcendental knowledge and that this knowledge is meant for the entire world for the benefit of all humanity."

Prabhupāda: That I am speaking of, that this, that this knowledge should not be kept locked up. That is my mission.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So our Gandhi's program failed because he could not attract the villagers to these activities. Everyone wants some attraction. That we were discussing, rasa, catur-vidhā-rasa, dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90). So we have to educate them to be attracted by the mokṣa-rasa. Then they'll stay. Unless there is rasa... Just like if you put a little sugar, small black ants will come immediately. The rasa is there. Raso vai saḥ. If... If you cannot attract people to some rasa, they'll not stay. Just like these Americans, foreigners, they have tasted little rasa in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore they are sticking. That we have to create. That is bhakti-rasa. So our first beginning is that the villagers may come, we have our temple, and they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and give them nice prasādam. And then, gradually, they will be attracted to this rasa. So that we want. So if we people cooperate... We have got our program already. The present problem is that they are being attracted with this artha-rasa. There are four kinds of rasa, catur-rasa: dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa. So somebody is tasting dharmārtha, ritualistic ceremonies. Somebody is economic development in the cities, artha. Somebody is attracted, sense enjoyment, sex. And somebody, very pure, mokṣa-rasa. Catur-rasa. So in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness all the four rasas are there. Simply we have to present. So that is possible by the bhakti-rasa. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam, arcanaṁ vandanam... (SB 7.5.23). So we have to begin.

Morning Talk -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There was a picture in the newspaper showing the students going to school, and each one of them was shown as a dog with a hat, graduation hat on, comparing the students to dogs. There was a cartoon, very apt.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are creating so many dogs. "Can you give me any service?" "No vacancy! Get out!" And somebody becomes a... "All right, a bit of bread..." And: "Oh, oh, you are so kind." These śūdras... The number of śūdras have created this world situation so bad. (break) In your country also the farmers wants to go to the city to become educated and never comes back again. They are no more interested.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Actually Paramānanda was telling me that, you know, he's made some very close friends amongst the farming people, not our own people. So every year he goes back to near New Vrindaban, 'cause he made friends with the local people there, and he spends a week with them, and Devakī-nandana also. So he says that now he helps them. Whenever he goes, he helps them with the farming because their sons are all starting to marry the girls from the city, and they're not so much inclined towards the farming work. So the father and mother, even though they're getting older, they have to more and more work because the children are not helping them.

Prabhupāda: The city girl, she does not wish to come.

Morning Talk -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That goes for all over the world.

Prabhupāda: Don't go to the city. That is my determination. The hellish city. In city nobody has got the opportunity for living in such comfortable place. It is all Kṛṣṇa's mercy that we have got. Otherwise if you go to the Bombay city, even here, these pigeon holes, three small rooms... It is not expected that everyone will be able to live in such palatial building. That is not possible. Even they have no bathroom in Bombay. In the room, in the corner, there is a tap, and you have to go to the public well, latrine. This is the system. So whole family will take advantage of the corner tap and then have to go to public latrine. There is no bathroom.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No sewer system?

Prabhupāda: No, sewer system. (break) ...each toilet for fifty men. They are in line in the same building. One after another you get chance. You have got dysentery, then it is... Then you...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You have to take a bucket.

Conversation: Vairagya, Salaries, and Political Etiquette -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Girirāja: Going to try to phone Mr. Rajda. And considering that the Prime Minister may not have that much time... We had discussed that he should come here to meet you, but suppose if we fix up, say, a minimum time if he can't come here, say at least a half hour undisturbed, something like that, is it possible to fix in the city or we should just insist that...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's suggesting that if the Prime Minister can't give that much time, whether you would go to see him? Actually, if you give the idea that Prabhupāda wants to see him in the morning hours...

Girirāja: Yeah, I'm going to.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean, if he says that that's not possible...

Prabhupāda: That is not respectful.

Morning Conversation -- April 29, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Girls should be completely separated from the very beginning. They are very dangerous.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we're... I thought there were girls in Vṛndāvana now. They said that they're going to have the girls' gurukula behind the boys' gurukula. Gopāla was talking about that.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. No girls.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It should be in another city or somewhere else.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They should be taught how to sweep, how to stitch...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Clean.

Prabhupāda: ...clean, cook, to be faithful to the husband.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't require a big school.

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is mistake. They should be taught how to become obedient to the husband.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, you won't learn that in school.

Prabhupāda: Little education, they can...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. That they can get at home also.

Prabhupāda: They should be stopped, this practice of prostitution. This is a very bad system in Europe and America. The boys and girls, they are educated-coeducation. From the very beginning of their life they become prostitutes. And they encourage.

Conversation with Shri Narayan -- May 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So immediately contact Jayadal and Dalmia, and he has got a nice house. We go to Hrishikesh immediately. It is very nice. Or Patel.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Or Bhogilal.

Prabhupāda: Then we haven't got to go Kashmir.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So first we'll contact Bhogilal because he's in the city. If he cannot arrange, then we'll immediately contact Jayadal. Yeah, they're such close friends...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...they'll immediately do.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Hrishikesh is known to be very good. Gaṅgā is there.

Prabhupāda: So we can go there immediately. That decided.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hrishikesh is appealing. To drink Ganges water...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Conversation with Shri Narayan -- May 2, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I immediately feel attracted to going there...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...'cause it's a holy site. These other places were not so... This Hrishikesh is holy site.

Prabhupāda: It is nearer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So tomorrow I'm going into the city, anyway. I'll go and meet either Bhogilal or Pranlal. I have nice acquaintance with them, so I can meet them. Even if Bhogilal is not here, Pranlal is here.

Prabhupāda: One of them can...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He can do also.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So I'll make arrangements. Dr. Sharma is waiting for me, Śrīla Prabhupāda, so...

Prabhupāda: All right, you go now.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I should attend.

Prabhupāda: You are free. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This is our thesis.

Jayapatākā: And educated young people, they're very... They're very susceptible to being devotees. When we traveled in one city, two people joined with us and traveled with us and said they'll be shaved and everything. Very easily they give up. Even when I returned in Māyāpur about five or six new young men had joined. In the twenty days I was gone Bhavānanda Mahārāja had enlisted about five or six men and about fifteen gurukula students and two families. And they were all very enthusiastic. They want to go and preach also. Things are improving.

Prabhupāda: So building work is finished?

Jayapatākā: They're just finishing the top waterproofing, jalja(?). They're building that now. That'll be finished in fifteen days.

Prabhupāda: Others things are going on.

Jayapatākā: Other things are going on.

Bhavānanda: Painting. Painting, finishing painting work is going on, first floor.

Jayapatākā: Painting is going on. Now we just have to furnish the rooms. Then guests can stay. The rooms are still unfurnished. This weekend it was packed, filled with guests, our big guesthouse. One Tara minibus came and filled, garden building. People only come to Māyāpur to see our temple. They don't go to see any other temple.

Prabhupāda: What they'll see there? (laughter) How Saman(?) Mahārāja is managing?

Jayapatākā: He somehow is trying to maintain. I don't see any improvement.

Prabhupāda: No, he cannot make any improvement, but if he can maintain, that is our question.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Rāmeśvara: "He then appeared before Ariṣṭāsura." (break)

Prabhupāda: And He went forward still. Still there are demons amongst the (indistinct).

Rāmeśvara: "I will arrange to get those two boys here." (break)

Hṛdayānanda: ...Latin America just for facilitating book distribution and making new devotees. All important cities were open here.

Prabhupāda: North America or South America?

Hṛdayānanda: South America.

Prabhupāda: Hm. What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, just a notepad.

Prabhupāda: So you wanted to give.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is real work. If the Prime Minister has got this thing in his brain, then I can understand that he can do so.

Mahāṁśa: And this is a very nice thing he said, Prabhupāda. He said that "We want to improve things in the countryside to an extent that people from the cities start running to the villages."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I want. I... Everywhere I go and say, how these rascals...? So much land is lying, and these rascals are not developing. And they are making... What is that? Coal stone. Coal. They are interested with these bricks and stones, not green vegetables. Such a rascal government. Give them facility. We know how to do it. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ, yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). Let them engage in kīrtana. There will be more water for gardening, and it will be moist, and then produce fodder for the animals and food for you. And animal gives you milk. That is Vṛndāvana life. And they are absorbed in this so-called opulence. Kṛṣṇa has taken birth. They are bringing so many nice, pleasant foodstuff, very well-dressed and ornamented. These are description. In the morning we were reading. How they were happy, the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana with Kṛṣṇa and living and cows. That I want to introduce. At any cost do it and... Don't bother about big, big buildings. It is not required. Useless waste of time. Produce. Make the whole field green. See that. Then whole economic question solved. Then you eat sumptuous. Eat sumptuously. The animal is happy. The animal even does not give milk; let them eat and pass stool and urine. That is welcome. After all, eating, they will pass stool. So that is beneficial, not that simple milk is beneficial. Even the stool is beneficial. Therefore I am asking so much here and..., "Farm, farm, farm, farm..." That is not my program-Kṛṣṇa's program. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Produce greenness everywhere, everywhere. Vṛndāvana. It is not this motorcar civilization. If it has taken in his brain, then it is to be understood that he can do this plan. He'll be able. Somebody said that he is eager to see me.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...make the whole land, people, very happy. You show this example all over the world, this example, in America. Don't spoil money. Show by example. Enough science and enough motorcar, that's all. No more wanted. This is wanted. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). Bring water from the sky. Keep always land moist and green. This is wanted. It is not my desire. It is Kṛṣṇa's. Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Here Vyāsadeva says, kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). These rascals, they do not know. They do not consult śāstra, therefore manufacture. In Chandigarh so much land lying vacant. Thirty years already passed. And they are developing the cities. And another four hundred years will be required. The land is lying vacant. And they are making two governors, five commissioners, six ministers and..., drawing fat salary. This is government. Government means to draw fat salary at the expense of poor people. Dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. Rājanya dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. Just like the rogues and thieves, they by force take money from us, these rascal, under some law, they'll take, this government. They will live at any cost. Never mind forty rupees (indistinct) a week. They have got cheap money. Print note and give him forty rupees. What is that? "You want forty rupees? Eh, take forty rupees." This is artificial inflation. They have got power to print notes. "Pay gold forty rupees." "No, that is illegal. Take paper." Means a cheating business from the government. He's giving him piece of paper, and the rascal is thinking, "I am making one thousand rupees." Formerly, in our childhood, we have seen a currency. They will offer, "What you want, gold, silver, or currency?" These three things were offered. If you want gold coins, take gold coins. If you want silver coins, take silver. And if you want currency, you take. We have seen it.

Morning Conversation -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Other than that, you won't get outsiders to come in, though.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. But it's a great... It's an important spot.

Prabhupāda: That is dangerous portion of New York City. Just after my house they were regularly drinking and... Negroes. I didn't care. Never they did any harm to me. Bowery Street. And still, I was there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We thought about this.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We had thought about this previously. The difficulty, we felt, was just that no one will... Unless it was used as a temple now, simply to keep it as some room for a few people to see once every month or two when they pass through New York, that's not living. It should be alive.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If there's no life in it, then what's the use? That place is not especially a good place for a temple anymore.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: But fifty years...

Prabhupāda: No, so many houses, they are lying vacant. Nobody goes there.

Discussions -- June 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Rāmeśvara: Right. "The GBC committee members."

Jayapatākā: Not all of them. (background talking)

Girirāja: We can put the cities.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Girirāja is suggesting that there's no need to list the address or in details.

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just simply the city.

Rāmeśvara: We can do that right after we meet with Prabhupāda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, we can do that.

Girirāja: So "...shall never be mortgaged, borrowed against, sold, transferred or in any way encumbered, disposed of or alienated."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is the Indian properties.

Prabhupāda: Indian property is devāyatana bhavana.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is required. But it will be a failure unless they are taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That... Gandhi's failure was there. He did not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because the material civilization means pravṛtti-mārga, and spiritual civilization nivṛtti-mārga. Pravṛttir eṣā bhūtānāṁ nivṛttis tu mahā-phalām. So pravṛtti... Suppose he is in the village. He has to work with plow. And in the city, Goodyear Tire Company offering him twenty rupees per day. So he'll see that "What is the use of working with this plow? Let me go to Goodyear Tire." Then here the business will be finished. That is the position of India. So much land is lying vacant because there is no worker, and all the rascals have gone to New Delhi or big cities. And overpopulation? "Give them sterilization." Here there is no men to work and they're sterilization... How the leaders... And who is leader? Another debauch number one, Gandhi, Mrs.... And she has produced a Sanjay Gandhi. Very precarious si... So there will be no scarcity of simple living and eating. We shall give nice food, milk, and place. So bring student and teach them. Then gradually increase. They will preach throughout the whole world. The defect of the society, modern—the rascals are worshiped. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has given all in his moral instructions. He said, mūrkhā yatra na pūjyante: "Where rascals are not worshiped..." But at the present moment rascals are worshiped. And he says. He was experienced politician. He said, mūrkhā yatra na pūjyante dhānyaṁ yatra susañcitam. "In the society where rascals are not worshiped and food grains are properly stocked..." Mūrkhā yatra na pūjyante dhānyaṁ yatra susañcitam... Another... Dampatyo kalaho nāsti: "And where there is no quarrel between husband and wife," tatra śrīḥ svayam āgatāḥ, "all fortune will come there automatically." Svayam āgatāḥ. You haven't got to pray, "Mother Lakṣmī, please come to my house." She'll come. Three things wanted. You should not give unnecessarily honor to rascals, and you should keep your food grains very nicely, and don't quarrel, husband and wife. Then you become fortunate. Just see. Check how these instructions are there.

Talk About Varnasrama, S.B. 2.1.1-5 -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He even had to fight.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is husband's duty. She has dedicated her everything to the husband, and husband must see that she is comfortable. This is husband. She must have children, she must have good house, good eating, good clothing, good ornament. Then she is satisfied. They want these things. A woman does not mind very much, "My husband has got more than one wife." If she gets all the comforts of her wishes, some children and some comforts, then she is... She does not grudge because woman knows man's psychology. A man is not satisfied with one woman. So he must be given that. But she must be chaste. She cannot have more than... Then their relation is all right. If the woman allows husband—"He likes. Let him have more than one woman, but I must be chaste"—this... Our civilization is nowhere, Vedic culture.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In the villages in India, is this still going on sometimes. We see in the cities it's not, but in the villages, do they still have more than one wife?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Not poor man. Kṣatriyas.

Conversation with Bhakti-caitanya Swami-New GBC -- June 30, 1977, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: You'll be surprised how what quantity of spices toward(?) Indians. There is a Calcutta wholesale market of spices. They... Everywhere, not Calcutta... Chili, they are sold in big, big bag. We have seen in Hyderabad a spice shop, chili, large shop. And amongst the spices, the chili is most favorable.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they like it very much. You also use it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone. And there are so many spices.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The spice merchants are usually pious men who become members, I have found. In any city...

Prabhupāda: They have got money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Very often the Marwaris, they are in that...

Prabhupāda: Gujarati.

Letter from Yugoslavia--'Books!' -- June 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Like an ass. Have you not seen the ass? Can anyone work like that? The animal is so small, and the load is ten times than his body's weight. You have not seen? If you weigh the animal's body and the load, the load is ten times more than his body. This is the punishment. And again, the man who is loading him now, he'll have to become an ass and take the load. This is called karma-bandhana.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He writes, "Many days... After working for more than one day at several universities, my presence became too obvious, and this becomes politically and legally dangerous, although in some little cities I became practically the talk of the town because people had not seen one with a dark body as mine, speaking only English and a little French." He's very dark. (break) He says, "Most important at this school was that after four days of trying to meet the Indologist, we were successful. I met the man and his assistant. They kept stressing that we were..." (break)

Prabhupāda: If required, you can show this line to Mr. Koku(?). In foreign countries they are no more interested in philosophical speculation. Actually they are not, neither in America nor India.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right, Śrīla Prabhupāda. "Lord Caitanya did not let them escape, so He..."

Prabhupāda: Our books are sold not for philosophical speculation but practical solution of the problems. The philosophical classes are now being closed everywhere.

Letter from Yugoslavia--'Books!' -- June 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I go on reading, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hm. Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Seeing that the... Lord Caitanya did not let them escape so easily, seeing that the books would be very interesting, he requested both standing orders and several small books. Before leaving the city, I went to two international book shops. One book shop bought several books, and the other shop, an enterprise, wanted to translate two of your books into Yugoslavian language."

Prabhupāda: Eh? What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "One bookshop bought several books, and the other shop, an enterprise, wanted to translate two of your books into Yugoslavian language."

Prabhupāda: What is that book?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Gugalana(?), one of the few cities which had a theological seminary, was overpowered..." He doesn't say which one.

Prabhupāda: So make arrangement immediately. We shall allow them to translate and publish.

Room Conversation -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All three, with all of..., many of her followers.

Prabhupāda: Public will see how we can unite white and black by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That will be very good result.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lot of black people follow her. All of her followers are black people.

Prabhupāda: Introduce this Ratha-yātrā in every city. Great festival will attract people. When we first..., first or second year, Upendra was dancing like anything. (laughs) You remember?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was the second year. Around the tree he would dance.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Do you remember that?

Upendra: Yes, Prabhupāda. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Maddened with gladness. You were sitting by my side. That was very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was the big festival. Remember how many people came?

Prabhupāda: No, it was very, (I) mean, engladdening festival. Everyone...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Remember that hall at the end? Everybody was standing and jumping and chanting. You stood up with all the chanting.

Prabhupāda: It was very successful.

Room Conversation -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is a fact. And the books are selling very nice, hm, Bengali?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. Now there's about seven or eight parties traveling around India, simply doing book distribution.

Prabhupāda: That is our aim.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā Mahārāja, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa. That was never before. Now that is going on. They have vans just like in America, and they travel, city to city, distributing the books.

Prabhupāda: That is real program. You must always be fit. So he has taken how much, loan?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā Mahārāja? Well, he's taking two different loans. One loan is for vans. Took fifty thousand rupees. He's now paid off ten thousand. Every month he's sending regularly five thousand. He's done that regularly now. And then he's taken another loan...

Prabhupāda: For printing books.

Conversation -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Mr. Myer: It's a beautiful temple. I've also been attending the various classes, reading some of the books, and I think it's something we need in this country very badly.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Mr. Myer: We need in this country very much, in every city, in every town. For twenty years I was searching for something like this, and I think something exactly what I have dreamt of. And I think there are some very few problems that might come up, because most of the people are sannyāsīs. They are doing lot of preaching work. They aren't necessarily bothered with lot of administrative work. And if their administrative work is done by some other people, then they can concentrate more on preaching, which is very necessary.

Prabhupāda: Yes, sannyāsī, brahmacārī, means preaching. They are not meant for material management. They have dedicated their life for spiritual-although this material service is also spiritual—but they are doing on such a strength. You cannot expect a very expertly management and... But they act. Simply ask them to do the needful.

Bhu-mandala Diagram Discussion -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So far, we have stayed in the Bhū-maṇḍala. We've now just picked the cover of Bhū-maṇḍala. We were thinking to do one more. We can do it later on, one more drawing to give it more detail, because the centers Meru and Jambūdvīpa and salt ocean are so small on this map you cannot even see it. So we want to...

Prabhupāda: Hm, in detail.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We want to blow up one area like they do on some maps. They show one city bigger than other places 'cause it's important. And after that, our next business is to now go upwards. Now we've gone outward this way. Now we have to show the sun, the moon, the sapta-ṛṣi, everything like that. That'll be very nice doing, how the sun is...

Yaśodā-nandana: Another unique feature of this map is that... Bhakti-prema Mahārāja found about... There is one space which is mentioned by Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura in his commentary. The complete diameter from west to east and north to south, it is calculated to be 500,000,000 yojanas. In order to be able to adjust that, we needed 250,000,000 on each side.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means 4,000,000,000 miles.

Prabhupāda: That I have given there.

Bhu-mandala Diagram Discussion -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Sinking.

Bhakti-prema: Crushed by (indistinct). (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So the Rand McNally's Illustrated World Atlas, its special feature is that it gives maps describing all different subjects like language. What language is spoken throughout different places is the world is shown by map and the national areas, according to size, population, and cities, major populations, densities of population. Like China is supposed to be... China. This shows proportionately in population according to this and India, it says that it is... Everything else is very small compared to these two, India and China. Agriculture, what kind of agriculture, natural vegetation, climate... (break)

Bhakti-prema: But there was no Atlantic Ocean, Indian Oceans, no. But after that, there were sixteen thousand sons of Sagara Mahārāja. Then their sacrificial hearth was stolen by Indra. So it was put somewhere in the earth folds. They began to dig the earth to find out that hearth. So they dug other oceans, (indistinct) Kapila Muni (indistinct), and it explains the curse(?) that he is the chief. And then there's...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says here that "Only our knowledge of the crust of the earth is based on direct observation, but studies of paths of earthquake waves..." Then it goes... The only way they can understand is by direct observation. And that's very limited. Says, "All the planets were probably formed at much the same time." It doesn't sound like they have very much knowledge, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Everything is "probably," "maybe." Says that "Probably all the planets were formed at much the same time from the same great dust cloud." After you create this planetarium, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they'll have to rewrite all of these books. These businesses...

Bhakti-prema: Another book has to be written. Its name should be Easy-to-Read Geography or Advanced Geography. And also about history we have to write. Your Divine Grace will write Advanced History, and there the complete lifetime of Manus and Indras should be given.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: According to the modern thinkers, any further back than about three or four thousand years ago, everyone was living in the caves. So they think that all of our books are mythology, some dreamt-up stories by some people...

Prabhupāda: So how they are writing of millions of years ago?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is all according to their mythology.

Prabhupāda: No, they are suggesting.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And, of course, they say that there were no humans around, just dust and water and earth. There were no brains at that time.

Prabhupāda: Only brains are developed now.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No. That you were reading.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, yeah. I don't want to have to make you hear the whole thing because there's not enough about us. But I can read a little bit of it to give an idea. "There are signs here and elsewhere across the country that the youth-oriented religious sects that sprang into existence a few years ago are gaining a foothold for an enduring future. The emergence of a wide assortment of spiritual movements, from Eastern religions to Jesus people..."

Prabhupāda: If we introduce this Ratha-yātrā in every city, all other religions will be finished. (laughs) Eh?

Upendra: Yes, Prabhupāda. In San Francisco there's nothing. The only thing in San Francisco is the Chinese Parade people come for. And the next thing is Ratha-yātrā. It is bigger than the Chinese parade, the Ratha-yātrā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says here...

Prabhupāda: Ratha-yātrā is highly demonstrative. And what Chinese parade?

Upendra: One dragon only.

Prabhupāda: Childish. What dragon will help?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The whole article is more or less... It's not really worth reading the whole thing. It's mainly about that they're here to stay.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Organized very nice. Hm. "Gargamoney." (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Kindly fill in the form below to receive your first volumes." Then it says, "Name and age, date of purchase, address, city, state, country, type of business, phone, number of sets to be purchased." Number of sets to be purchased. It's very hopeful. "Whether encyclopedia is for personal use or other, please explain." 'Cause they're going to keep a file to see what people use it for. "Number of books to be received each year. Amount given as advance." He says, "At least fifty percent of the total cost can be given for the complete set as advance, and balance to be made in yearly installments. Signature of purchaser. Please note: The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust shall fulfill its obligation to supply all books to the purchaser as agreed upon and shall ship all books postage prepaid to any part of the world. Dated and signature of the salesman. Checks to be made out in the name of Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, Bombay. The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust Library Encyclopedia of Vedic Knowledge, Founder-Ācārya His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. Recommendations and appreciations by leading scholars of India on the BBT Library Encyclopedia of Vedic knowledge." He seems to have got a lot... I don't know how he did this. It says... These are different recommendations. It's from the Minister of Education, Government of Maharastra. Shrimati Patiba Patel. " 'I therefore wholeheartedly recommend this encyclopedia of our culture and all BBT publications to all educational institutions, schools, libraries and colleges concerned with the moral and cultural development of their students within the boundary of Maharastra and throughout the world.' " See, each one he has the word encyclopedia bold and underlined. "Ph.D. from Harvard University." All different big personalities. "The Mayor of Bombay. Padma Bhushan, Vice-Chancellor of Baroda University. Professor of Gujarati language, Gold Medal winner and author of 36 Gujarati books." Another man. "Award-winning Gold-medalist in Gujarati literature." "Award-winning author in Sindhi literature." All these people are giving their recommendations. "Award-winning author in Sindhi literature." "Head of the Department of Sanskrit at Bombay University." "Head of the Department of Sindhi in RC College, Bombay." Then he has a review by P. M. Joshi. "Dr. P. M. Joshi, past director of Archives and Historical Monuments, Maharastra government; past professor in charge of History, Bombay and Poona University." So many different titles. Then he has one from Prabhudas P. Patwaria, a governor of Tamil Nadu. And another one from the Deputy Director, Research of the Lok Sabha. Would you like to see some more things, Śrīla Prabhupāda? The next one looks... This next one is also from Gargamuni. It includes a letter, Śrīla Prabhupāda. "My dear Śrīla Prabhupāda, please accept my humble obeisances at your divine lotus feet. We fervently pray that Your Divine Grace continue to remain in this world because we need your personal guidance. Even when Lord Kṛṣṇa disappeared, Arjuna lost all strength temporarily."

Prabhupāda: I shall remain your personal guidance, physically present or not physically, as I am getting personal guidance from my Guru Mahārāja.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhāgavatāśraya: From five towns!

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Now we are going to all the district towns." That means not very big cities. "Now we are going to all the district towns in Maharastra, and almost one thousand standing orders have been taken all over India so far. Since we have started the encyclopedia program many persons have ordered every single book you have published. Nearly twenty encyclopedia orders have been taken so far." This means every book. Not just one standing order. Complete.

Prabhupāda: May Kṛṣṇa bless him. You are doing very tremendous job.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Says, "First week, July, three of our men are opening a BBT Library office in Bangkok."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "They have a mission to develop this whole area, Southeast Asia, for book distribution." He sent a team of three men to develop Southeast Asia, and they've opened an office in Bangkok. "Their program includes: 1) government recognition of our books, 2) sales to universities and colleges, 3) acceptance of our books by leading scholars, and 4) sales of encyclopedias to Hindus. All of Southeast Asia will be developed for book distribution. We pray for your blessings in this..."

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa's blessings are there upon you. He is dictating the organizing capacity. Do it very nicely.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: In New York. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Paramānanda's the president of the farm, and he's the sannyāsī there. And he's also in charge of the Rādhā-Dāmodara office. While Tripurāri Mahārāja travels in the field, he heads up the office. And the office is in a city right near the farm. So he goes half the week to the farm, half the week to the office to manage. Remember I mentioned, Dhṛṣṭadyumna's brother is an architect. So they're planning the farm for building it. It's called a model community. They're going to make it New Varṣāṇā Model Community. Everything will be planned out ahead of time—where the cows will be living—from the point of Vedic conception. It won't be hodgepodge. And they feel that it will gain tremendous interest amongst the prominent persons of America who want to visit a model community. Many universities and schools will send groups of students to visit and see. That's their idea.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If he wants to do business, how he can stay there?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. There's no business in Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: What is business there?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He wants to go where there's a business center.

Prabhupāda: No, business means he must do business in some city.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Bombay.

Prabhupāda: Anywhere. Bombay is the best city. He has got facility to stay there. For business Bombay is the best city.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In India.

Prabhupāda: In India. No, world. It is a very important city. Export, import, local. Tremendous business possibility there. Many poor men goes and becomes very rich men. Bombay is very important center. You have to get a place by giving bribe, fifty thousand, sixty thousand, to stay there.

Room Conversation Gaurasundara, Dr. Kapoor -- July 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So you also joined?

Gaurasundara: No, I was leaving to come here at that time, but the pictures were given to me to show you. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...children?

Gaurasundara: Yes. It's very nice. There are very many people taking part.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Quite a few cities. We figured that ten different Ratha-yātrā festivals were held this year all around the world.

Prabhupāda: So it was taken from our temple to seaside?

Gaurasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: A long distance.

Gaurasundara: Yes. All through Waikiki. Very many people are in Waikiki, the tourists and regulars.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Very good.

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Yaśomatīnandana: It's fifteen minutes away from the...

Prabhupāda: We don't want any profit. We don't want any profit. You produce. You eat. You chant. Organize. Don't go outside.

Yaśomatīnandana: Don't go to the cities.

Prabhupāda: No. Be man of character. No illicit sex, no intoxication. Vaiṣṇava. Eat sufficiently, dress sufficiently. Live very comfortably. Whatever profit is there, it should be invested again for books. That's... Because we are investing money, our land... Therefore we are not profited. Beneficiary, you. It is a cooperative society. You produce your needs, live comfortably, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Our only interest is that you are taking interest in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, working. Otherwise we don't want to exploit you. That is not... If there is no sufficient, you can... We help you manage it. You manage your own affair. We give you direction. Live happily, chant. This should be... Will not they agree?

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes, they will very much agree.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I was in Ahmedabad last week. The farm that Bhogilal Patel gave, it's beautiful.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he has made this.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Very beautiful. I think it's even more beautiful than Hyderabad. It's hundred acres compared to six hundred acres, but all hundred acres is cultivable. And secondly, it is not far from the city. It is only like from Juhu to Churchgate. It's even less than that.

Yaśomatīnandana: Eight miles.

Prabhupāda: It is nothing.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Nothing. It took us fifteen minutes by scooter to get that. So I suggested to Yaśo that we should make that farm like New Vrindaban. Let us build a temple there...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: ...instead of in the city.

Prabhupāda: No, city should be... Make there.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And this will be a very unique project in India then.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. There is no need of... City does not need temple. If there is a good temple fifteen miles, that is...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And then we can sell cottages to big life members. They can make cottages...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Three, four rooms, one cottage. They will come and live comfortably.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's very beautiful land, all green, all hundred acres cultivable.

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa has given this facility.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That I thought can be the best project. And it's not far from the city.

Prabhupāda: It is not at all. It is within city. Eight miles is within. If you go to see some friend, you have to go eight miles.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And I told them they could buy scooters.

Prabhupāda: This farm...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You like the idea also...

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma. (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126) There is no distinction that you have to make in the city. Nagarādi grāma. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's...

Yaśomatīnandana: And it is our experience that in the city hardly fifteen, twenty people come. But in the village, hundred fifty, two hundred come, even though the temple is...

Prabhupāda: You can make an ideal place. Very good.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Very good temple. And actually the farm is worth five or six lakhs' rupees. All surroundings all good. And another good thing I found was in Hyderabad the neighboring villagers were against us when we went there, but here they're all favorable. They all say "Hare Kṛṣṇa." When you walk, they greet you enthusiastically.

Prabhupāda: Gujarati people are Vaiṣṇava by nature.

Yaśomatīnandana: One boy that is there, they invite him for prasāda, and then they fan him.

Prabhupāda: Do it nicely. All facilities will come.

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Very good. This is preaching.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "On the 28th and 29th of July we held Hare Kṛṣṇa festivals at one prominent hall and spoke on the origin of life and matter. The second evening this Dr. Kovoor showed up with seven or eight of his followers, all doctors and scientists of some sort. By your mercy and the mercy of the Lord-teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam (BG 10.10)—the lecture which somehow emanated from my mouth was so brilliant that the audience, about one thousand people who were all aware of Dr. Kovoor's presence and sensed the intention of challenge in the air, unanimously applauded as we spoke the last sentence." They unanimously applauded. "I then asked for questions, but the Dr. Kovoor and his friends did not make a peep, while everyone waited in dead silence. It was clear that he was defeated, hands down. After I came off the stage, he was still sitting in the audience. I went to him and gave him my garland so he might not feel bad." So anyway, that's what happened there. He says, "Now we have exhausted all possibilities of extending our visas here. We were not able to meet the Prime Minister again, so he is very busy rewriting the constitution of this country. So I thought the most inexpensive move is to come to India, and then I could also see you and perhaps be visiting secretary for some time, then return again. Or I could go to Malaysia, Kuala Lumpur, Singapore, etc., in the Far East, Southeast Asia, and try to preach there, touring different cities to see the prospects."

Prabhupāda: That is very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's nice?

Prabhupāda: Anyway, all blessings of Kṛṣṇa upon them. They are doing very nice.

Room Conversation -- October 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Apartment?

Haṁsadūta: No. It's a house. Quite a large house. Large area.

Prabhupāda: What foot is area?

Haṁsadūta: It's forty feet wide by maybe three hundred feet long. It's ten minutes from the center of the city. That particular piece of land is worth about two lakhs. There's another man, very rich man. He saw the Bombay project, and he promised to give us a piece of land right on the beach for which he already had zoning permission to build a hotel. It's also a very nice area. But the most important thing is we're trying to get some books published in Tamil and Singhalese languages. And we do a lot of preaching. Is there something special you want me to do there, Prabhupāda? Do you have some...

Prabhupāda: No. There is every chance of making it successful, and the... As Kīrtanānanda has developed New Vrindaban, similarly you can do.

Haṁsadūta: Something along that line?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Haṁsadūta: You mean like a community, spiritual community like Kīrtanānanda?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Haṁsadūta: Yes, that would be very good there because it's also a very ideal climate. Everything grows there very easily because there's plenty of rain, fertile soil, and there's only one city—that's Colombo. And it's a very small city. People are all agriculturalists. The government is also giving land free to encourage agriculture. Simply that it has to be cleared. It's jungle land; it has to be cleared. Shall we try for something like that?

Prabhupāda: What you can do it easily...

Haṁsadūta: Do.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This Dr. Kovoor affair has given you some position.

Haṁsadūta: Yes.

Prabhupāda: As an atheist... He's an atheist.

Haṁsadūta: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 9, 1977, Vrndavana:

Girirāja: Yes, we have reason. That is our choice. And the manager in Delhi already said that for our foreign remittances it would be much easier to bring it in Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Girirāja: So I think we could have an account at the main office in Delhi and the money can come first there, and that will make them satisfied. And since we have our office in Delhi, and since Delhi is the main city, it's more convenient for us to have our most things there. And then when we need it in Vṛndāvana it can be brought here. Manager of the Delhi branch asked us if we have a branch in Delhi. So when I said that we do, he said, "Then it will be more convenient for you to deal with the main branch."

Prabhupāda: So do it. Transfer.

Girirāja: Yes. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...to deliver to the banks?

Girirāja: We have the copy of that letter with their stamp that they received it.

Prabhupāda: So what is that copy? What you have written?

Girirāja: Well, we wrote two letters, because the fixed deposits are in the name of ISKCON Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma Temple Maintenance.

Room Conversation -- October 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: These are the original beads that we got in New York when Prabhupāda made the first initiations. There were no tulasī beads available in New York City.

Dr. Kapoor: No, I see. (laughs)

Rūpānuga: We went to a bead shop on 14th Street.

Dr. Kapoor: I see. (laughs)

Rūpānuga: Japanese beads.

Dr. Kapoor: That has some historic significance, yes.

Rūpānuga: Actually, they come out to be very long. Six feet.

Dr. Kapoor: You can now get tulasī beads from here, because it should really be tulasī and not any other thing. Japa-mālā.

Rūpānuga: Śrīla Prabhupāda chanted on these, so...

Brahmānanda: Now they're tulasī.

Dr. Kapoor: (laughs) (pause) Prabhupāda seems to be slightly better today. He takes interest in other things and wants to speak.

Brahmānanda: You're feeling better today, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) ...syrup.

Dr. Kapoor: That syrup, he says, that has...

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Dr. Kapoor: Let us see. Apply the method of elimination. Eliminate the syrup today and see what the effect is.

Brahmānanda: Syrups have made some difficulty?

Dr. Kapoor: Syrups, he says they seem to be somewhat intoxicating.

Brahmānanda: These are by the allopathic or...

Dr. Kapoor: Must be allopathic, because the syrups are tonics. Every tonic has that effect partly.

Prabhupāda: Only work... The kavirāja's strong medicine... I think that... On the whole, the condition is not better.

Room Conversation -- October 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Girirāja: Because they are the responsible people, the big city, cosmopolitan, and these small towns there's always danger.

Prabhupāda: So certificate must be transferred there.

Girirāja: Yes. We've given them the certificates and the letter, and they've taken the responsibility. They're sending the certificates by registered post to the Vṛndāvana people with their instructions to transfer the money to New Delhi. So those will definitely reach here by Saturday when the assistant general manager comes. And if there's any hesitation, the assistant general manager will take care of it when he's here on Saturday. And I would think that by Monday or Tuesday we could get the certificates changed officially. And then, I think, we should have a least one account in their main branch in New Delhi. It would probably be easier to get inward remittances there. And if we want the interest from the fixed deposits to be kept there, we can have an account there for that. And that will keep us in good contact with the head office.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Rāmeśvara: It lasts for one month, the supply. (laughter) This is another picture of the Janmāṣṭamī in Los Angeles. The whole street is closed by the city, and we build a stage in front of the temple, and Sudāmā's men were performing Rāmāyaṇa and Kṛṣṇa-līlā, and there were rugs in the street for people to sit on and under the pandal on the grass and they were watching. About five thousand people came.

Hari-śauri: Many Indians in the picture also.

Rāmeśvara: This is the Deities clothes, on Janmāṣṭamī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrī-Śrī-Rukmiṇī-Dvārakādhīśa. Los Angeles Mandir. Rukmiṇī-Dvārakādhīśa.

Rāmeśvara: These were the nightclothes offered on Janmāṣṭamī to the Deities.

Prabhupāda: See that it does not touch...

Hari-śauri: Don't touch Prabhupāda's feet with the painting.

Rāmeśvara: This was a flower outfit offered on Janmāṣṭamī. They had three outfits.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Three different sets of clothing, all new, were offered to the Deities on Janmāṣṭamī. And this one is made completely of flowers.

Rāmeśvara: The next morning They were offered another set of new clothes for Vyāsa-pūjā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think you must go there, Śrīla Prabhupāda, again. They are calling you to come.

Rāmeśvara: These are the new clothes for Jhulan Yātrā.

Prabhupāda: I have given them the philosophy of "American money and Indian culture." Combined together, the face of the world will...

Hari-śauri: Change.

Prabhupāda: Don't keep Indian culture airtight, and don't keep American money for sense gratification. Use it for Kṛṣṇa. So they are doing that. And Kṛṣṇa is giving them intelligence. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam.

Room Conversation -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What medicine?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Quinine, and I think Śrīdhara Swami is arranging some other medicines. There is malaria epidemic in India. In Hyderabad every family, at least one person, has malaria. It's all over India, even in big cities. Bhakti-prema Swami, he also has malaria. Mosquitoes seem to be a very envious creature. Are you liking the massage, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is using the same idea as that brahmacārī, putting hot on different places.

Upendra: Leg. Tell him the leg.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You have to explain to him about massaging.

Upendra: We did already.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. You have pain in that hip, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Room Conversation With Bharadvaja -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, Washington, it is also... London, there are many hundreds of tourists daily come.

Jayatīrtha: Right now there's a place available, a lot one block from Madame Tusseaud's in London. We thought that to be in the same area might be a good thing, because so many people are coming to that place.

Prabhupāda: Yes, in the center of the city.

Jayatīrtha: There's a big lot available just one block away. I think you lived on that corner at one time, just across from Madame Tusseaud's.

Prabhupāda: I lived there?

Jayatīrtha: When you first went to London, didn't you stay for some time there? Just in that area?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Jayatīrtha: So just around the corner there there's one place available.

Prabhupāda: No, that is occupied.

Room Conversation -- October 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Vṛndāvana there are so many smārta-brāhmaṇas, but Bombay is a very materialistic, modern, Western city. Some of our devotees have already been invited, Acyutānanda and one other, for themselves opening a temple. So it was the common opinion of most of the devotees, "What is the need of hiring these fourteen, fifteen brāhmaṇas? The people don't care in Bombay for this."

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rather, they may be more impressed to have the Western devotees doing it, and we save so much...

Prabhupāda: Western brāhmaṇas.

Hari-śauri: Western brāhmaṇas, yes.

Girirāja: Imported. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: That was my prediction. As they're importing ghee, milk, similarly, brāhmaṇa also. Go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya. That's nice proposal.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In the meantime I'm thinking of a small office here in Vṛndāvana, because Vṛndāvana I'll come back now and then, often, and I'd like to have a small place also to do some writing here. It's a nice atmosphere, quiet, and also they have all the facilities here to do some writing. So I just went to buy a..., got this almirah for the office in Mathurā, Dr. Sharma. In about a month we'll go to Bombay temple and try to furnish the Institute offices and also try to make some contact with the scholars. I'm thinking of holding a short conference in Bombay. It will be like here in Vṛndāvana. Bombay's already many scholars, and right in the middle of the city, so it will be a lot easier in Bombay also. Big cities like Delhi, I think can get many scholars. In Vṛndāvana not so many came, but those few came, they were quite nice, and we learned something from this conference.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was speaking with Śrīla Prabhupāda the other day that it doesn't seem that Vṛndāvana would be a good place to construct an entire building for Bhaktivedanta Institute.

Prabhupāda: Why? There is already a building.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There is already a building here. Judging by the reaction... Of course, this is the first meeting, but...

Prabhupāda: Later on...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Later on it may be done, but for now it's better to concentrate in bigger cities, where we're sure of the response.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's asking for your...

Prabhupāda: Svarūpa Dāmodara?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Yes. It is true that in big cities... Say, Piyal(?) find it(?) in Delhi. They say they can fill up the Vijñāna Bhavana. Also coming here in Vṛndāvana, especially if we don't provide transportation right from..., by some good conveyance, actually it's not so easy to come here.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And that also would be such an expenditure, each time you want to hold a meeting you'd have to convey people, especially from other cities.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually it's not... Next time I don't want to spend any money on conveyance and prasādam. It's going to be charge now. This was just for Vṛndāvana. In Bombay I'm not going to do any more like this.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think that for now it's better not to spend ten lakhs or more of rupees to build a building, another building here. Better to wait, let the Institute become established in Bombay and see if there's some real backing, and then consider again whether we want to build it in Vṛndāvana.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, that's all right. But still, I feel that even for a Gurukula child we need a hall, small or big. We need something... It's quite common in any academy, institute, whether it's big or large, something where people can get together. Just like friends meet or any other functions that is normally associated with academy institutions. So some sort of hall, it's, I think, will be of value.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Svarūpa Dāmodara says, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that even if the hall is not simply for the Bhaktivedanta Institute, that the Gurukula here requires to have at least one big auditorium with seats. And also if you remember, the upstairs was going to be living quarters for women. Right now the women are living on the inside part of the guesthouse, and they're very noisy with all the children there. So perhaps it's a good idea to go ahead with that building anyway. He says that the Bhaktivedanta Gurukula could use that hall in any case.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It can be a multipurpose hall. It doesn't have to be just for Gurukula or Bhaktivedanta Institute. It can also be cultural...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cultural or wedding... We could rent it for wedding ceremonies, things like that also.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. It's already a cultural center. Just like the Gītā Conference is coming next month, I was told? They would like to hold here. Something like that, we can always get some engagements. Also we can get some...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What do you think, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No, whatever you think is approved.

Doctor Visit and Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would you like some kīrtana, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: You have got any (indistinct). Where is Girirāja?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He went into the city today for picking up the fixed deposit receipts. That was the main thing.

Prabhupāda: City?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Delhi. Because the receipts are being turned over to the head office, so they have to be endorsed there. So he went for that purpose. There's not much more to do now with this Panchashil flat, because we're going to give it. So simply it will be up to Vrindavan to make up the necessary document for transferring it. I think it doesn't even require a big document. Simply a letter on behalf of Your Divine Grace saying that "We give this apartment to you."

Prabhupāda: But one thing, if they can dispose?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they may try and sell it.

Prabhupāda: No, no, I don't want that.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Still, they criticize us. Hm? Affirmations(?) good character, good health...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Another article says, "Procession draws hundreds. The hundreds lined the streets of Durban on Sunday to watch young and old Hindus taking part in the colorful procession which was held as part of Lord Kṛṣṇa's birthday celebration." It tells all about a celebration in the city of Durban organized by our society.

Prabhupāda: It will be good for propaganda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Kṛṣṇa-aṣṭamī. Lord Kṛṣṇa's celebration." Full center page. "A voyage of discovery." "A Christian tribute to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." There's a picture of Your Divine Grace here. It's an article reprinted from Back to Godhead. It says, "All material in this special feature taken from Back to Godhead, the official magazine of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness." This is all... It seems like what they have done... The same thing they did in Fiji, they have done there in South Africa. Because many of the articles... This is a whole..., also all about our society. All of these pages. "Hare Kṛṣṇa puzzle is unraveled." "Jagannātha car festival is one of the oldest in history." Then it tells about the program, how to get to the farm. Then he sent photographs. It's a very beautiful temple, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I don't know if you can see it. This is the temple. You see the white structure here? You can see it has arched domes? Not domes but arches.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can you see it? Look at the pandal they had.

Prabhupāda: They have got a new barrack... Festival.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Pañca-draviḍa: This change with Haridāsa is a miracle.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Bombay is the most rich city in India. And now they are willing to help us. So there will be no scarcity of money. Wherever you'll go, you'll get it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But that building, that project, is so nice, you don't have to go anywhere. They come to you and give money.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. That's Prabhupāda's mercy.

Pañca-draviḍa: Your project too, personal project.

Prabhupāda: So when it is going...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When is it going to open?

Prabhupāda: That building?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What? What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That, another building or godown?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want to know when the godown is beginning to be built?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But what kind of responsible?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I don't think it's irresponsible. This is still too early to be expecting that we would definitely have heard anything. Sometimes... There's so many reasons why it would take this long to even contact the man. Supposing the man has gone out of the city for a day. It's entirely possible. I mean, naturally because you're ill, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you're feeling, you know, immediately to want news of him. (pause) Do you think that this M. M. would try to cause any trouble in the future? Or is he so useless that he won't do that even?

Prabhupāda: He has taken power of attorney from his mother. I think whatever money is going to his mother...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He uses. He can control. But apart from that, he can't do much more.

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But one thing is that the account which is..., the money is going into for his mother, is operated jointly by Vrindavan. So I think that's a safeguard. And now with this amendment, if they don't use the money properly, they won't get it.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: Oh, yes. We're training up those who have children... They're trained in the varṇāśrama system. Some of the children in the school have a scholastic bent of mind, so they're educated in Sanskrit and higher studies. Some of them have a vaiśya bent of mind, and they work in the gośāla helping to develop..., milk the cows. Some are... Their parents are working in the handloom. They also have that desire, so they're trained to be handloomers. In this way we will be able to develop a city of fifty thousand devotees.

Śrī Bajaj: Let us not overstrain him and whatever if... He'll feel tired.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much.

Śrī Nārāyaṇa: (Hindi)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We have our main festival in Māyāpur at the end of March, March 24th.

Śrī Nārāyaṇa: March 24th?

Bhavānanda: This year? Dola-yātrā. Gaura-pūrṇimā.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Our biggest festival. All the devotees from all over the world...

Prabhupāda: Recently there was a scientific meeting here. Where is that Statesman report?

Śrī Nārāyaṇa: The report from, about Māyāpur? Some literature?

Prabhupāda: No, here. We... Just describe.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhakti-caru: It's a beautiful city also.

Girirāja: Yes. It's very peaceful and clean.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sounds like a good place to take you sometime, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Girirāja: The air is very, very pure. They hardly have any industry there, and very few motorcars. It's very unspoiled. So the air is clean and the people are also nice. Until a few years ago, there was no system of compulsory education, so the new ideas, Western ideas, have not come very much there.

Bhakti-caru: Śrīla Prabhupāda? (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, would you like a little soft chanting?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you haven't passed urine in some time. Would you like to try?

Prabhupāda: There is no...

Bhavānanda: No need. (end)

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1977, Vrndavana:

Jayapatākā: That was supposed to be done this year, but then Bombay took all the funds. Prabhupāda sanctioned it already last year. It was a good idea. But Māyāpur has become very popular. This is all due to your effort, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Simply due to your efforts Māyāpur and Navadvīpa is becoming so much more famous and popular. We want to make the Māyāpur temple so beautiful and make the city so nice that not only the Queen of England and the President of United States, but even the Russian and Chinese leaders, they'll all have to come to see this. They can't avoid. Will that please Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura? If all the leaders, all these presidents and kings would come and visit the temple at Māyāpur, that would please Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Seems like your activities, Śrīla Prabhupāda, are so much pleasing to the previous ācāryas.

Jayapatākā: This is the secret you are showing, working towards satisfying the desires of the previous ācāryas.

Prabhupāda: Tāṅdera caraṇa-sebi-bhakta-sane bās. So you are all bhaktas. To live with you, to serve the lotus feet of the ācāryas, that's good...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We've already become famous as spiritual United Nations.

Jayapatākā: You've given the secret for success. (break)

Prabhupāda: If possible, make some improvement in Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's birthplace.

Jayapatākā: I was just thinking about that, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Haṁsadūta: Tomorrow is Govardhana-pūjā, and a procession through the city of Vṛndāvana would be very ecstatic.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Pañca-draviḍa: One parade.

Prabhupāda: Others will come also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah, well, if we go through Vṛndāvana, probably many people will come.

Haṁsadūta: Then we could also get some experience, because if we were, for example, to go to Govardhana, we would have to pass over similar roads.

Lokanātha: This cart does not have cover, Śrīla Prabhupāda. This bullock cart which I hired has no cover on the top.

Haṁsadūta: So we have to cover it.

Bhakti-caru: Lokanātha Swami, you apparently didn't get one question of Prabhupāda. He asked what do you think about this trip. You didn't answer that. You have some experience with bullock carts. What do you think? In this condition Śrīla Prabhupāda will withstand the trip? You know in what condition Prabhupāda is in now.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Bullock cart are usually very bumpy.

Devotee: This has rubber tires.

Lokanātha: If these roads are not bad, and the cart has tire wheels...

Prabhupāda: Yes?

Lokanātha: So we're discussing bumping, so won't be much bumping on the cart. Also, we always could go slow. If Prabhupāda wants to make an experiment, we could make one day...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: A few hours.

Prabhupāda: I am thinking I am lying here... (break)

Lokanātha: ...should ride in very nice carts, a chariot.

Prabhupāda: No, (indistinct). (laughter)

Page Title:City (Conversations 1977)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:25 of Feb, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=146, Let=0
No. of Quotes:146