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City (Conversations 1968 - 1974)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk After Lecture -- May 30, 1968, Boston:

Prabhupāda: When the result of the karma is offered to God, then it is karma-yoga.

Satsvarūpa: Swamiji? Can I make an announcement? Swamiji has said there are fifty important pilgrimage cities in India, but as far as we're concerned here, it's whatever city His Divine Grace is residing in. So right now it's Boston. And he will stay here so long as it's the best place to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So you have some taste for it. You can help us to keep Boston this city of pilgrimage. We need engagements for Swamiji. The universities will be closing... Well, some of them are almost already closed. But if you have any access to a nice engagement, a church or a club where people attend, please approach us and help us to spread in this way. Also we have a love feast here in the temple every Sunday at noon, and this is very sumptuous bhakti-yoga love feast with Indian delicacies that you'll certainly enjoy. So approach this way. We'll take collections at this time also. You can help us very solidly by putting in all that you can. Our next kīrtana is scheduled for Wednesday-Monday, Wednesday, and Friday—but it won't be, because it will be held at MIT instead in the student mezzanine lounge in the third floor at eight.

Prabhupāda: Wednesday there will be no meeting here?

Satsvarūpa: Yes, there'll be no kīrtana. That's the next engagement, May 8th. Also, does anyone have a car? Swamiji lives nine blocks away.

Prabhupāda: You have got a car? Thank you.

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:
Prabhupāda: Our process is to accept everything which conduces to develop Kṛṣṇa's love. So those methods are given by experienced ācāryas, that "You just follow." Just like when a child tries to walk, the mother gives some direction or some help in a wooden plank, that "You try to move in this way. You will learn how to walk," similarly, there are certain principles given by experienced ācāryas. If we follow those principles, then we can work or we can go to the perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is not the method that is important. The real important is how to develop your love of Kṛṣṇa. If somebody develops love of Kṛṣṇa, or God, without those methods, there is no objection. We are not limited by the methods or ritualistic methods. But there are certain ritualistic method, which, if one follows, then he can quickly learn the art of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like we restrict our students in four principles: illicit sex life and intoxication, gambling, and meat-eating. So it is not that a gambler or a meat-eater or a man addicted to illicit sex life, he cannot love Kṛṣṇa. It is not that. But that is very rare case. If he follows these principles, then it will be easier for him. Because Kṛṣṇa, or God is pure, so so long one is impure in his habits, it is not possible for him. So these are the purificatory processes. And so far our signals or some marks on the body—just like we take tilaka; we have some beads—this means... Just like it is practical. When I was in Montreal and other cities, when we passed through the road, the children, the persons, they also said, "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" So these marks and this symbolic representation reminds others to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like a policeman, as soon as he appears in his dress, "Oh, here is a policeman," so similarly, these things are also required to remind others. Our process is to raise persons to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if by our symbolic representation one immediately remembers Kṛṣṇa, that is our success.
Room Conversation about Marriage -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

together.

Prabhupāda: No. This is not possible. Because brahmacārīs, they are young men, and they are young girls. Naturally, there is dis-turbance to the mind. Yes. It is just like putting butter pot on fire. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Nanv agni, pramadāgni ghṛta-kumbha-pāyaḥ pumān. Just like fire. (chuckles) Fire is a woman, and man is just like butterpot. It is said. Therefore they should not keep together. (laughs) Just like there are some labels in medicine and some..., "Keep away from fire." Huh? (chuckles) "Keep away from fire." So brahmacārīnī and brahmacārī is not a very good combination. But married couple and some brahmacārīs, that is nice. So this girl is married, but she is separated.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And her children have been placed in the custody of the girl's parents. So the girl does not even have custody of the children. So she is not in any way, so to speak,... She does not have to stay in this city because of her children because the courts have decided that her mother will take charge of the children. She has brought them to the temple on weekends. They're very intelligent. They like to... Oh, they like the puppets. They like to paint and draw pictures of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: But how she can travel with you? She has no husband.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. So what do you think? Is it all right for her to travel with us or better not to?

Prabhupāda: Because she has no husband?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Reporter: I wonder if you could explain how it would be impossible, to what extent. I mean whether...

Prabhupāda: The same example as I have already given, that if you want to reside in ocean water, is it possible? If you want to construct a city like New York in the ocean, is it possible?

Reporter: No, but what if they had resided in the ocean or on the ocean for a short period...

Prabhupāda: Anywhere. Any, in the ocean or on the ocean, you cannot build up a city like Los Angeles or New York. That is impossible. So even in your presence, in different atmosphere, you cannot go and live. So similarly, the moon planet is completely different atmosphere. How you can live and go?

Reporter: But, of course, they're not going there to build a city, but they're only going there to take some rock samples, do some experiments, and then leave.

Prabhupāda: That may be possible. Just like you go in the ocean and live for some time and come back, but you cannot make any permanent settlement there. Yes. But that also I am doubtful whether you can land and take some, I mean to say, earth or water from there. That is also very difficult. So far our literature goes, our information goes, it is not possible.

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Hayagrīva: They didn't have the mechanism ready.

Prabhupāda: But for sixty miles, fifty miles, if they could stand sixty miles off from the moon planet, they were already on the atmosphere. Suppose if I am sixty miles away from a city, I am in that atmosphere. So if I could stay that atmosphere, how it is possible that, how it is wonderful that they could not go further sixty miles? I don't believe these things, these statements, that they were within sixty miles area. This is simply imagination.

Reporter: Well, they didn't take along the spaceship that they need that they...

Prabhupāda: Anyway, anyway, just like I am inhabitant of Vrndavana. Vrndavana, that is ninety miles off from New Delhi. The atmosphere is almost the same. So, if I could live at Vrndavana, I could live at New Delhi also. So if they stayed sixty miles off from moon planet how is it that they could not go further sixty miles? This is most ludicrous. At least, we cannot believe such things. Sixty miles is no much difference. It is almost in the same atmosphere.

Reporter: If the space program, either the Russian or the American program, which have plans to try to land on the moon and return safely, if this is successful, do you think this accomplishment would hurt the Kṛṣṇa movement in the United States? It would contradict Vedic...

Prabhupāda: Why? First thing is even they are successful, according to our principle, it is simply waste of time. Because we are not concerned even with the moon planet. We are trying to go to the planet of Kṛṣṇa from where nobody returns back to this wretched condition of life. So the wretched condition of life is as good in moon planet as it is in this earth planet. And do you know what is the wretched condition of life? Yes. The birth, death, old age and disease. This is the wretched condition of life. So you cannot avoid this wretched condition of life in the moon planet also. There is birth, death, old age and disease. But where we are trying to go by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no birth, death, old age and disease. So even there are, people are successful to go to the moon planet, what connection we have got there? We are not at all concerned with any planet where there is birth, death and old age and disease. Even in the highest planet of this universe.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Journalist: From a very pragmatic standpoint what do you think? Really.

Hayagrīva: Yes, it has possibilities. I don't know about on a wide scale, but it definitely has possibilities. Especially in I think in these areas, in the cities.

Journalist: Cosmopolitan areas.

Hayagrīva: Of course, we're also starting a community in West Virginia.

Journalist: You are? Why West Virginia?

Hayagrīva: Well, this is where we're starting. I've just started it with other's help.

Journalist: You're starting it?

Prabhupāda: He has secured a land, about 138 acres.

Journalist: May I ask you why you picked West Virginia?

Hayagrīva: Well, it's mountainous and it's very economical living there.

Journalist: Yes, it is mountainous. Well, I mean there's mountains here too. I'm not being facetious. Again, I'm just curious.

Hayagrīva: No, it's very economical living there and it's also nicely located because we have temples in New York and in other areas in the east. So it's sort of like, between the east and the west, so it's sort of centrally...

Prabhupāda: And one thing is that main supporter is he. He is working in Ohio University. He's nearer.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 12, 1969, New York:

Brahmānanda: It's the capital.

Gargamuni: Tallahassee.

Prabhupāda: Miami is the capital.

Brahmānanda: No. Miami is a big tourist city.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Janārdana: It's all tourist, the whole place.

Gargamuni: There's an Indian fellow in the San Francisco temple. He comes very often. He's a student, and his name is Vinode.

Prabhupāda: Vinode.

Gargamuni: Yes. And he helps us cook prasādam. And he cooks in the kitchen and oh, he says, "Kṛṣṇa is my only life." He says he was so happy to find a temple here.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 14, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: I think I told you about that, didn't I?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You told me in San Francisco. Yes.

Allen Ginsberg: So he heard two rounds of it. Okay. I have to take a plane today to a Catholic college in New York State. I'll be going back to New York at one o'clock, so I have to go back and pack and say good-bye to the students. It was a pleasure to see you here, lovely. So maybe we'll do it again in New York.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Allen Ginsberg: I'll call. Thank you for your words and thank you for letting me join you.

Prabhupāda: My... You are already chanting. But if we do together, it will be very nice.

Allen Ginsberg: So let's do something together in New York City this summer. I'm free all summer, so it's at your convenience this time 'cause I'll be free. I don't have any dates or appointments. So if you just let me know maybe two weeks or somebody let me know a few weeks in advance, then I can come down from the farm, spend a day with you and then we chant. I'd be happy to do that. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Give him that garland. (end)

Meeting with Devotees -- June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban:

Hayagrīva: Well, I mean I don't care that much. If you want to put him in charge...

Prabhupāda: That is... No. So far, if you ask my advice, he should do that work, outside propaganda, preaching. But as you say that his presence is required, therefore I say he may remain here. Otherwise, to remain here is not his duty as a sannyāsī. That is actually your duty, to organize the local management and everything. And his duty is outside work, preaching. He may have one assistant, and he can travel. He can educate your countrymen that "Here is a nice thing we are developing. Please come and cooperate." Invite him, and when he comes you receive him and give him good reception. In this way you have to make propaganda, outside and inside. Just like Kṛṣṇa is making outside and inside propaganda. Inside He is Supersoul; outside He is spiritual master to reclaim these fallen souls. Similarly, we should also work outside-inside. And for making outside propaganda, I think he will be the best man. Suppose if he goes to New York, stays for some time, sees respectable foundation and presidents and just to attract their attention this side... Similarly, if he goes Los Angeles, San Francisco, all other cities, Boston, and sees important men, makes propaganda that "We are doing this. Please come and help," that will be very nice. Arrange lectures from... Our local temples may arrange lectures, and he can impress people about the importance of this movement. Not only one, I require several such preachers now. Now we are improving. We are increasing our propaganda. We require several such assistants. So those who have decided to remain brahmacārī, some of them, those who are experienced, they can accept this sannyāsa order and preach. Outside propaganda is also required. Don't you think? Outside propaganda?

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They will pay nice money to hear us?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (reading letter:) "This can be made extensive by your team of followers from America arriving in..." They are greater. So Indian and American combined kīrtana, oh, it will be very nice. Big kīrtana, and every city will receive. And we shall preach that "Here is the common platform for everyone. There is no distinction of nation or religion or anything. Come to the platform." So the Mohammedans also will join. The government will appreciate that here is something secular, real secular; at the same time, God is there. Actually, it is that. All religious people, so-called religious, come here. And religion means this, to love, I mean to say, develop love of God. That is religion. What is this formularies? Simply formula that "I keep this, I copy that." That is not religion, simply by dressing in different way or sitting in a different way. Where is your understanding? You have no understanding of God. You simply formally attend some church or mosque or temple for some material benefit or for some, make some show, but where is your love of God? That is the test of religion, Bhāgavata says. A religious person means he has got complete love of God. Then he is religious. All right. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply wasting time. Bhāgavata says, without developing this love of Godhead, if somebody is engaged in religious ritualistic performance, he's simply wasting his time. Śrama... That particular word is used, śrama eva hi kevalam. Śrama means labor. Eva. Certainly, it is simply laboring. What is called? Labor of love? What is called?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Labor of love.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You love something and unnecessarily you labor. So religion means... This is religion, how to develop love of God. That is religion.

Room Conversation -- September 24, 1969, London:

Guest (1): Quit.

Prabhupāda: Just like... What to speak of ordinary man. President Kennedy. Oh, how much labor he had to undergo to occupy that post, how much money he spent to become president. But he had to quit his family, his wife, his state, his post. So this is going on. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). For sometimes we are engaged in this way; then again we are annihilated. Again begin another life, enter into another mother's womb, construct another body, then come out, then again begin work, again the same thing, digging and piling, digging and piling, again going away. Is that very good business? This is the karmīs. Karmīs means worker, fruitive worker. They want some result for their work. They are called karmīs. So the karmīs are engaged in this way. (Doorbell rings) In Bhagavad-gītā these karmīs have been described as rascals, mūḍha. Mūḍha. Because they do not know why they are digging, why they are piling and why they are leaving again everything. You can sit here, in the corner. I, I... Ask these boys, yes. This is the problem. The whole world is engaged very busy. Any city you go, they're very busy. The motor car is going this way, that way, and everywhere is constructing and so many things are going on. But if you put this question, "Why you are doing this business, digging somewhere and piling somewhere, again leaving the whole thing?"... (Aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. They have no answer.

Discussion with BTG Staff -- December 24, 1969, Boston:

Pradyumna: But it's going pretty fast.

Hayagrīva: You want me to do Nectar of Devotion and then Kṛṣṇa and then Bhagavad-gītā, in that order?

Prabhupāda: Yes. So everything is all right, bṛhat-mṛdaṅga department? Major saṅkīrtana party. They are going, saṅkīrtana parties in different cities. That is junior. But your, this party, it is senior. You are sitting one place; you have to work thousand times more than them. Yes. You have to edit in such a way. Where is that water?

Brahmānanda: It's being offered, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: All right, all right. That's all...

Satsvarūpa: I have a question from the art department.

Prabhupāda: Art, yes.

Satsvarūpa: Jadurānī asks are they going too slow? She wants to know are they going too slow. They have thirty pictures ready.

Prabhupāda: One thing, that Jadurānī should have some assistants. She alone cannot do that.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1970, Bombay:

Guest (1): There are number of Indians in New York. In New York, Indians are...

Prabhupāda: No. In London there are many Indians.

Guest (1): In London, they say, there are about twelve lakhs of Indians in London.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are many Indians. In the street you will find it is just like ordinary Indian city. (Hindi)

Guest (3): He's my old friend.

Guest (4): We both are coming from Horir(?), leaving Delhi after... We are interested in this Gītā-jayantī Mahotsava, and we shall be more interested in you also. You are coming...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Guest (4): So this is (?) Kumar Sharma. He's an, a learned(?) man. He has brought this tape recorder. He has come to tape your interview. Last night we met Mr. Ja.(?)

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: They are sincere, sincerely seeking after. Their material business is finished because they have enjoyed enough of material things. Now there is spiritual inquiry. That is natural. When our material necessities are complete, we enjoy, then next stage is spiritual hankering. And that is explained in the Vedānta-sūtra, athāto brahma jijñāsā. After finishing karma-kāṇḍīya life... Karma-kāṇḍīya life means you do pious activities and enjoy life. That is called karma-kāṇḍīya. So... But the fact is that even you get your birth in a very rich family, you cannot avoid the sufferings of this material nature. Just like yesterday we had an interview with Holkar(?), His Highness Holkar, the old gentleman. So he was a king. He has got very beautiful wife, very beautiful family, very palatial building, but he is not happy, we saw. So the foolish people, they do not know that in this material life there is no happiness. They hanker after these palatial buildings, the motor cars, the bank balance, and so on, so on. Therefore those who have enjoyed all these things but have not become happy, there is another inquiry: "How to become happy?" (break) ...say America, they have enjoyed material life. Their children have enjoyed material life to the fullest extent but they are not happy. Therefore they have come to this spiritual life.

Guest (4): Last night in your learned discourse you said that you're supposed to found a temple in this city.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (4): But you preach the Vedic mārga. Don't you think that instead of building a temple, āśramas in this brahmacārī model would be...

Prabhupāda: Yes. And without temple the brahmacārīs will be vyabhicāris. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: That you have seen this morning. We are teaching every day the śāstra. They are not simply chanting. Their chanting is based on understanding. Therefore they are sticking.(?)

Guest (4): Mahārāja, the educational system of this country has so much deteriorated. I have been studying. I see young people of different colleges, boys and girls taking to LSD even in this city and doing to all sorts of nonsense. What is the best...?

Prabhupāda: That I was explaining. As soon as there is indulgence in illicit sex life, all bad qualification will come. That I was explaining.

Guest (4): And Mahārāja, what are your impressions of the youth of this country?

Prabhupāda: I have no estimation of this country or that country. I know everywhere, because spiritual education is lacking, everywhere the boys and girls are fallen.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Guest (4): Mahārāja, you said that you had been misrepresented in that report which appeared yesterday in one of the dailies of the cities.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (4): How could you like to mend your statement?

Prabhupāda: My statements are clear there but he has misstated in the heading with ulterior purpose.

Guest (4): I think he has...

Prabhupāda: Young men of cities, they may come to me and be trained up in the spiritual life, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (Hindi) So long you'll ask me to keep here, provided you are serious of taking training from me...

Guest (4): I am very much serious.

Prabhupāda: Then you are welcome. I am asking young men like you to come and join me.

Guest (5): (unintelligible)

Prabhupāda: Aiye. Yes. I am speaking in English because my students, they cannot understand Hindi. But if educated young boys like you come they will be also able to understand English, so there will be no difficulty.

Guest (4): Thank you, Mahārāja.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Haṁsadūta: That means in each city we would we have to have our own local press.

Prabhupāda: No, not necessarily. You can arrange with any newspaper place. You simply supply your matter; they will print. Just like we are getting from Japan, similarly, make your own layout and supply them. Immediately, within two hours, everything is complete.

Haṁsadūta: But a daily newspaper has to turn out daily, so it takes time to transport it from one city to another city.

Prabhupāda: Well, from every city we can publish. Every city there is a newspaper place.

Devotee (4): ...national, just like the national...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So we have to organize. First of all let us publish in one city, big city like New York, like London, yes, Bombay, Tokyo. Big cities, world's big cities. In India only two cities are big: Calcutta, and Bombay, important. If you publish simultaneously, Calcutta... Delhi is given importance due to capital; otherwise not important as big city, as Bombay and Calcutta. Delhi, without government offices it is a dead city. Just like Washington. What is the value of Washington? It is nothing. Simply because it is headquarters of the President, it has got importance. Similarly, Delhi is that. Otherwise it is not important. But Calcutta, Bombay, is really important city in India, big business, port, all rich men, every kind of, all cultural, everything—Calcutta, and Bombay. Originally only Calcutta, now Bombay also. Because the Britishers, they made Calcutta capital. And Calcutta was very, very important city. But these Calcutta men, they create sometimes situation, very complicated. So once in 1905 the same situation was there, politically. Sir Surendranath Bannerjee made, Surendranath Bannerjee's movement, partition of Bengal. Lord Collier, he wanted to divide Bengal, made it East Bengal and West Bengal. And Surendranath Bannerjee... He is the practically father of Indian politics. Gandhi's not. He was. He was. And in the beginning, in European circles he was famous. He was called "Surrender-not." The spelling of the name, s-u-r-e-n-d-e-r, Surendranath. In Parliament he was known as "Surrender-not." He was a very powerful politician. So there was trouble in Calcutta; so therefore they transferred, 1911, capital to Delhi. Otherwise, from the very beginning of British occupation Calcutta was the capital. You have seen the government viceroy's house near that Hamilton building where you were trying to purchase.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: What is the value of vote by asses? According to Vedic civilization, there was democracy but that democracy is selected committee. Just like in England there was Privy Council. So selected body of learned brāhmaṇas and sages, they were guiding the king, and the king himself was properly educated how to rule over, under religious principles. He was trained from the beginning of his life as prince. As the future heir of the throne, he was trained, and at the same time, he was guided by a council of learned sages and brāhmaṇas. They were looking over the activities of the king. As soon as there was some mistake they will see. And there are instances; whenever there was a bad king they were dethroned. Not for political purpose. He was dethroned but his son was on the... Just like Lord Rāmacandra did. Rāmacandra killed Rāvaṇa but He never occupied the kingdom. His brother Vibhīṣaṇa proved to be faithful. He was enthroned. From the same family. And that was the system. Even a king was wrong, he would be dethroned but from his family, either his son or brother, or somebody would occupy there. Not that "Because I have conquered you, therefore I shall sit down." No. There are many instances. And therefore India was ruling all over the world. The emperor was in India, and the kings of different states, their family was. So there was no rebellion. And in every state a king was trained in the same process, guided by committee of learned brāhmaṇa and sages. How perfect this monarchy is. Monarchy... That Lord Collier studied that the Indian people like monarchy. Even these states, the so-called states... Now the Congress government has killed them; otherwise the Britishers were maintaining, necessary, and they were developed. Now see. The Indore was far better before. You can see from the buildings, from the whole city. It was very prosperous city. Still it is going on. So every state, the native prince, the Britishers maintained so many native prince. And because they maintained them, they were friends to the Britishers. They knew the policy, if you create zamindar, landlord. They created this aristocratic class to support them. So when Gandhi and other leaders started this movement all the princes and zamindars, they were in favor of British. Therefore it took so much time to transfer. And as a retaliation, the common people have bereft them of their kingdom. "

Room Conversation -- December 21, 1970, Surat:

Prabhupāda: Simply, wherever you go, (makes traffic noise) "sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh," and "gonh, gonh, gonh, gonh, gonh." Up in the sky, "gonh, gonh, gonh, gonh," and in the street, "sonh, sonh..." And then, when digging, "gut-gut-gut-gut-gut-gut-gut-gut-gut!" (laughter) Is it not? Don't you feel botheration. But they are thinking, "Oh, America is very much advanced in machine." And when there is that garbage tank? "Ghon-ghon-ghon-ghon-ghon-ghon-ghon-ghon-ghon!" (laughter) So many sounds are going on, always. Eh? Of course, you have got very nice city, nice roads everywhere. But this trouble... You have created so many troubles. And there are news that one lady was a patient. She became mad for the sounds. And I think they are thinking very seriously how to stop all these sounds. Is it not?

Śyāmasundara: Especially they have these airplanes now.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: Māyāpuram, it is... That is in Madras side.

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: Mylapuram.

Prof. Kotovsky: There's a Mylapuram, yes.

Prabhupāda: Mylapuram. That is Madras city.

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes, yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So where generally you stayed in India?

Prof. Kotovsky: Myself?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Kotovsky: Oh, I was run away in many places, about, in Delhi, in Delhi, in Rajastan, in Gujarat, Maharashtra, Bengal, Bihar...

Prabhupāda: In Bengal where you stayed ?

Prof. Kotovsky: In Bengal?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 20, 1971, New York:

Prabhupāda: The brain goes bad, then it is very difficult to bring it into...

Pratyatoṣa: Well, they have maintenance men on the spot all the time. It's very reliable.

Prabhupāda: But I moving from one place to another.

Pratyatoṣa: Well, they have... This Honeywell system is being combined into a nationwide network so that these computers are available in every major city in the United States right now, and they're going to be eventually all tied together. We can actually communicate with other temples through the system.

Devotee (4): Why is Honeywell better than IBM for this?

Pratyatoṣa: Well, because they just concentrated on this more.

Devotee (4): On this editing program?

Pratyatoṣa: Oh, yeah, for the editing..., for our purposes, this is the best time-sharing system. I've used almost every one. It's unbelievable. It's so fast, it's so reliable. I used that for months and months and it never... It wasn't..., maybe... I can't even remember a time when the thing wasn't working. It was always working.

Devotee (4): So reliable.

Prabhupāda: They charge $180 per month?

Pratyatoṣa: $185 per month for 40 hours a week.

Room Conversation -- London, August 10, 1971:

Prabhupāda: That is Sanskrit, na tasya śocananarthi.

Śyāmasundara: Actually, for a place in the center of London like this, it's nice to have offices and a small chapel and maybe a bookstore, but we would not be able to recruit many people to come on a residential basis, being in the center of the city. But in a place a little bit further out, like in a student neighborhood, everybody comes.

Prabhupāda: What? Student neighborhood?

Śyāmasundara: Yes, they'll come.

Prabhupāda: So, why not negotiate that?

Śyāmasundara: Daily they'll come and then gradually become devotees.

Prabhupāda: No, among the young men there is hankering after this sort of an institution. Everyone asks me, "Why the younger generation is attracted to this movement?" so many reporters. So somehow or other, I reply, "The young men, they're receptive, they can understand the value, whereas the old fools cannot." (laughing)

Mr. Arnold: Well, my wife and I, we can. We're old.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) You are excepted. You are excepted. Sometimes old men are called old fools. (laughing)

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: We don't keep any statistics, but actually the fact is that I started alone; now we are eight thousand.

Guest (2): I'm sorry, I didn't quite get that...

Haṁsadūta: Five years ago, Prabhupāda, he came to New York with these kartāls, and he began alone by sitting in a park underneath a tree chanting this very same Hare Kṛṣṇa, which you see the boys on Oxford St. chanting. And now there are eight thousand students all over the world, and approximately a hundred centers. At that time, Śrīla Prabhupāda didn't even have a place for himself. But now he has a place in every major city.

Guest (2): You used the word "student" here. You're referring to this as...

Haṁsadūta: Yes, because it's an education. This is a spiritual education.

Guest (2): This doesn't tie up with the figure that I've been given, though, 150. There must be more than that.

Haṁsadūta: No, we're talking about around the world.

Guest (2): But you would accept there's 150?

Haṁsadūta: Yes, in England.

Guest (2): No, five years ago.

Prabhupāda: In 1966.

Room Conversation -- August 15, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Everywhere this class must be there, morning evening class. Either it is festival or temple. If you go on simply festival, you don't require to start many centers.

Śyāmasundara: Yeah. Starting more centers is not necessary.

Prabhupāda: No.

Śyāmasundara: We have the big cities covered. If people want to go and join us they can go to the big city and join.

Prabhupāda: Because opening center means so much responsibility.

Śyāmasundara: So much. Land...

Prabhupāda: So better open. Deity will be there. Just like Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja is doing. Install the deity for one week. You know everything. You have done in Calcutta, Bombay and other. Same thing. You were in Allahabad also?

Devotee: Yes, I was there.

Prabhupāda: Allahabad, Gorakhpur. So same thing. And for persons spiritually inclined, for them this traveling is very good. Traveling means with this occupation. It is very good. You'll be more popular and there will be no difficulty, mind will be steady.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Then if some scholars' and philosophers' meeting is going on that will be nice.

Haṁsadūta: Then I will try to do that. What about a meeting in the biggest hall of Heidelburg? Would you also be interested in that?

Prabhupāda: But I will have to speak in English.

Haṁsadūta: Yes. They know English. This city is especially English. They, practically everyone knows English. Very, very, many people from America are always there. Especially the younger people, they all know English. It's a center for...

Pradyumna: It's the best German university. The most famous German university is there.

Haṁsadūta: And Śivānanda. Shall Śivānanda come here to see you? He wants to know about his taking sannyāsa. He can either go to Paris and meet you there or he can come here.

Prabhupāda: He cannot go to Paris?

Haṁsadūta: He can go to Paris and meet you there. The Hamburg devotees will meet you in Paris. They will not come to the festival because it's very complicated for us to come here and expensive. So they will... And Śivānanda can also go to Paris or he can come here.

Prabhupāda: If it is possible, come here, join this festival.

Interview with Reporters -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Reporter: Person in the ordinary sense of the word, or...?

Prabhupāda: No. He is Supreme Person.

Reporter: Supreme?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like we are sitting here in Delhi City. Now here is Lalaji. He is supreme personality, mayor. (laughter)

Reporter: So we, we can see and feel and touch Him and be something also like...

Prabhupāda: No. I am taking for example India, the president is the supreme personality. The president is the supreme personality. You have to admit it. You may accept him or not, but officially you have to admit. So in this whole creation, cosmic manifestation, there must be some Supreme Personality. That is Kṛṣṇa. That is confirmed by Kṛṣṇa and the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid as ti dhanañjaya: (BG 7.7) "There is no superior personality than Me." And we accept it. There is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person." So our knowledge is very easy. We don't make any research. Here is Kṛṣṇa says that He is the Supreme Personality—we accept it. That's all. It is very simple.

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Next time when you go to London...

Dr. Singh: Yes, I'll definitely visit. I requested you to send me the list of your centers because I travel constantly throughout the world. And wherever I go, I can always look up the thing, and if I find a center there, I can drop into the center.

Śyāmasundara: Every city.

Dr. Singh: This is a new (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) Actually people are accepting this great culture of India. The (indistinct).

Dr. Singh: How long you are in India now?

Prabhupāda: At least three months.

Dr. Singh: Three months.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (indistinct)

Dr. Singh: Do you come every year, or is this the first time you have come (indistinct)?

Prabhupāda: No. I came last year (indistinct). (indistinct) so I went back again to Los Angeles in (indistinct), in June.

Śyāmasundara: Moscow, Paris.

Dr. Singh: How did you find Moscow?

Prabhupāda: Everywhere there is demand for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Simply artificially they have been checked. I find my market everywhere. I have sown the seed in Moscow. I have got one student.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 4.13.48 to SB 4.14.11 -- January 18, 1972, Jaipur:

Prabhupāda: Henry, Henry, yes. So he revolted, not being controlled, revolted against being controlled by the priestly order. Here also we see, purohita amātya-suhṛd-gaṇādayaḥ. When the king left, then the priestly order, purohita, purohita means priestly order, amātya, amātya means ministers, and suhṛd-gaṇādayaḥ, suhṛt means those who are willing welfare of the state, they became very much aggrieved that the king has left.

alakṣayantaḥ padavīṁ prajāpater
hatodyamāḥ pratyupasṛtya te purīm
ṛṣīn sametān abhivandya sāśravo
nyavedayan paurava bhartṛ-viplavam
(SB 4.13.49)

So they were afraid of some political convulsion. So although the son was worthless, so they decided that "Let us make him king. Otherwise, without king, how the state can go on?" So

bhṛgv-ādayas te munayo
lokānāṁ kṣema-darśinaḥ
goptary asati vai nṟṇāṁ
paśyantaḥ paśu-sāmyatām
(SB 4.14.1)

Because there was no king, so people became always like..., almost like animals. Paśu-sāmyatām. Paśu means animal, and sāmyatām means equal. So when there is a political, less strong political situation, not very strong government, at that time a class of men take advantage. Just like in Calcutta. Because the government was very lenient, not very strong, a demonic class of men took advantage of it and they began to create atrocities and fearfulness in Calcutta city. We have seen, practically people are not going out after evening, they are always staying in the fearful state. Nobody knows whether he will come back home again when he goes out of his home on the street. People are so much disturbed. So in the absence of strong king, these people take advantage and create disturbances. That is always there. So that happened. The people became paśu-sāmyatām. Therefore, the sages called a meeting of all respectable ministers and saintly persons and brāhmaṇas and decided, "Let us make this boy king." So he was enthroned. But because he was demonic, he was very strong. So as soon as he became king, all the bad elements of the state, they stopped their nefarious activities. Śrutvā nṛpāsana-gataṁ venam atyugra-śāsanam. They knew that this king is very strong and for any little criminal action, he will strike very severely. So the bad elements, they subsided.

Room Conversation -- February 12, 1972, Madras:

Guest: First of all, they are scattered all over the world, your society. Scattered all over the world. They do not live together, anywhere.

Prabhupāda: No. I have got different centers.

Guest: You have.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In different cities.

Guest: And they live together there?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We have got devotees in each center, not less than twenty-five and up to two hundred.

Guest: I see. Oh, as big as that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: Now, taking up my thoughts on the crude difficulties of management. First of all there is the very crude necessity of getting money to run these institutions.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with Author -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda? The temple is calling on the phone. They want to know if you are coming to that...

Prabhupāda: No. No. It is too late. Just like there is higher studies in science, in so many departments of knowledge. It is not that mass of people is interested in Ph.D. degree. But if one is interested in Ph.D. degree, therefore government provides him: "Yes, in university, you come." That is the real facility. So if anyone is interested to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness, why it should be denied? Why this should be obstructed because I do not like it? In big, big universities, maybe in higher studies, there may be one student, and for that one student they are maintaining four professors. Each professor is paid two thousand dollars. Is it not a fact? What do you think, you professor. Is it not a fact? Some department of knowledge is maintained, even it is not paying. Is it not? There are so many departments simply for research work because the government knows it is important thing. It may not be for the mass of people, but at least one, two intelligent class of men, he pays, qualified: "Let them have this opportunity." So this is like that. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not for ordinary man, but it is very important movement. Those who are interested, why they should be denied? It should be maintained. We cannot expect everyone can give up all these bad habits, illicit sex, illicit meat-eating, or drink, or intoxication, gambling. That is not expected. But if one wants to be for higher status of life, why he should be denied? This is not a bad thing. Why the city fathers are thinking that this should be stopped? All right, let us now... So my appeal to you, that you are journalist; you at least study this, our movement, and present very nicely. That is my request.

Author: Well, thank you very much for...

Prabhupāda: Yes, thank you. Stop that. (end)

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Pradyumna: No.

Śyāmasundara: Well, necessity...

Prabhupāda: Necessity means I arrange. There was a necessity to come to this city, so he arranged. So how it is chance?

Śyāmasundara: Their answer is that there was a necessity to go to the city, so we would have tried hundreds of different ways to come here, and by chance, eventually we would have found...

Prabhupāda: No. We have not tried hundreds of others. There was a plan.

Sudāmā: But even where does... In my mind, if I hear the word chance, where does chance, how does chance come about, if there is such a thing?

Prabhupāda: No. The rascal says that I am trying in so many ways; one of them by chance becomes... But I am not working in so many ways. We had a plan, to come here, to preach. So according to that plan, we arranged with this man, and it is not chance. It is all prearranged. Where is that I am trying this way or that way? We are going to preach. There is a plan. So our men go before my reaching there and they make nice arrangement, nice apartment. Then they receive me. These are not chances. This is all prearranged plan.

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Śyāmasundara: Someone has built in front of him.

Pradyumna: He had view over whole city. This was the biggest building, I think, and he said he had view everywhere. Now someone built one right up, right next to him.

Bhūrijana: In the United States, the most amazing thing is that everyone is envious. The general population is envious of the hippies because they all want to do that. The ones who are working so hard, they want to be the ones who are just getting fed and do nothing and enjoy sex. But then when the hippies have it, they say bad things about them.

Prabhupāda: What is that? I could not...

Bhūrijana: The advancement of civilization is leading to just sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Material civilization means sense gratification. That's all.

Bhūrijana: So the hippies have this sense gratification and all the people who are working so hard, they are envious of them, and they use that for their advertising.

Prabhupāda: We say in our śāstras that this sense gratification facility is there to the hogs and dogs, better sense gratification. If you have to enjoy sex life, you'll have to find out some room. Either you go to a hotel or have your own apartment, otherwise you cannot have sex life on the street, although you are too much lusty. But you have to arrange for it. But the dogs and hogs, they have no such restriction. Immediately "Come on. Let us enjoy." So they are better, in better position for sense gratification.

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Ātreya Ṛṣi(?): The government is spending millions of dollars to control the drug problem. In every city there are heroin addicts and all kinds of addicts, and they are very perplexed because there is no way to control.

Prabhupāda: This is the only way.

Ātreya Ṛṣi(?): This is the only way, but they are not willing to listen. Recently I was in Washington talking to the officials. Our company is making a project for the government, $7,000,000 to investigate what is the best way. And every way it costs thousands of dollars for each person, and it's not even guaranteed. And they take them out of heroin and they are putting them on methadone or some other chemical drug, and that's their method. They are spending thousands and thousands of dollars and the person goes back to addiction after several years. No success. Our program costs nothing, and the politicians don't want to listen.

Prabhupāda: No. Their policy is that they want to keep the people in that way-rascals and fools—then they'll vote and they'll enjoy the political power. That is their policy. Actually they do not want to see their countrymen elevated good character. They don't want to see. If the people become... Just like the British government in their time, they wanted to give education. Their education means A-B-C-D, half-mediocre, so that the government may be run on. They require clerks, servants, so much, not high education. As soon as there was question of high education, they stopped. And actually it so happened that as soon as the Indian people became highly educated and they learned the history of the world, they kicked them out. So these people, these rascals, Nixon and company, they want to keep the people in ignorance so that they'll get vote and enjoy. If the people become intelligent brāhmaṇas, then immediately he'll be kicked out. What is his value? He has no value. This is policy. They don't want to see that people become elevated in knowledge. That is not their policy. Therefore, they do not agree. Actually they are seeing that "These Hare Kṛṣṇa people, they're so nice character, they're religion, God conscious, so if all people become like this, then where we are?" Because as soon as people become Kṛṣṇa conscious, they'll noncooperate with the slaughterhouse, liquor industry, gambling, illicit sex. They will noncooperate. Then the whole plan of civilization will be collapsed.

Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Well vegetarians are not animals. (laughter) In India, you'll still you'll find ninety-percent of the population, they're vegetarians, strictly. Always vegetarians. They're quite healthy, they're working. Therefore vegetarians are human beings. Vegetables, that food is meant for human beings. That is natural. For a human being to become nonvegetarian is unnatural. And to become vegetarian, that is natural. Just like our teeth, it is meant for cutting vegetables, fruit, not meat. You will find cutting by these teeth, meat, it will be difficult. But you take any vegetable, any fruit, you can immediately cut. Our medical laws says that anything eatable which you cannot cut with the teeth and smash it properly, it will not be digested. So fruits and vegetables you can properly cut even raw, not to speak of cooked. Raw vegetables and raw fruits, you can cut with these teeth and smash it and you swallow, it will be nicely digested. You get all food value. But you cannot do in that way, raw meat. It is not possible. You cannot take raw meat or bite one animal and take some flesh out of it. You cannot. But animal can do that. They are made for that purpose. But that is natural. If you take your natural food, if you live naturally, if you fulfill your natural desires, then it is natural. And as soon as you go against these things, that is unnatural. So if you give up your natural tendency as human being and take artificially the way of life of an animal, that is not natural. In human society the..., however uncivilized human being, there is the process of covering this private part. Even in jungle they cover with the bark of tree. Why? That is the human being. But an animal in the jungle, they do not care. They can go, the same jungle—I don't speak of the city life—even in jungle life, the aborigines, still they have got some cover. Now they are becoming naked, natural life, nudism. Huh? That John Lennon, there is a picture in his sitting room, standing naked. This is madness. That is not natural life. If you go against your natural life, that is madness. Just like a madman walks on the street naked. So these are... So our mission is to advise everyone, educate everyone to become exactly like human being. That you can become by understanding God. The books, educational institutions, are meant for human being, for knowledge. All the books all over the world, they are not meant for cats and dogs. They are meant for human beings. The schools, colleges and universities, institutions, they are meant for human being, not for the cats and dogs. So we must take advantage of these books, institution, knowledge, teachers. That is real human life. Just like your guitar.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: Twenty. And about two hundred somewhere. And in America you know the expenditure. We are living in the best part of the city. But we have no source of income. We take some books, some incense, but there is no guarantee that it will be sold. So it is not a book of technology, general demand—Kṛṣṇa book. So if somebody's kindly interested in Kṛṣṇa, he'll purchase. So we are living in this way, depending on Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa's supplying all necessities. We have got seventy thousand dollar expenditure per month. So this is practical. We don't try for getting any job or any business. Depend on Kṛṣṇa. But our main business is to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness and follow the rules and regulations, chant sixteen rounds, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So we are... There is no problem for us. To collect seventy thousand dollars and spend every month, do you think is very easy job? A big government is concerned, or a big company, to collect seventy thousand dollars and distribute it again. It is a big problem. So how... We are increasing our centers. Practically every month, two, one, two. And we have got huge expenditure. But Kṛṣṇa is supplying. So we should see the example, be confident, depend on Kṛṣṇa and then everything is all right. Kṛṣṇa is powerful. He's omnipresent. He knows better than me. Our business is to satisfy Him. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So we are preaching this, that "You take to Kṛṣṇa. Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa said. The same thing we are saying. We are not manufacturing it. Why should we manufacture? The words are already there. We haven't got to manufacture anything. We simply... Just like I have come to your place. What am I speaking? I am speaking that "You become Kṛṣṇa conscious." We don't talk of any economic problem, political problem. We don't talk.

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: It's a very beautiful spot.

Prabhupāda: Bombay.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Like Bombay. Such an idea, it would be very nice here for all the rich, artists, intelligent people, everybody to come and rest and learn Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Let them learn there and implement the idea here. The whole city, whole country will be glorified.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya. We need to have more cow protection.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: On the West Coast, it would be very nice if we had some cow protection.

Prabhupāda: These people must stop this cow killing, the greatest sin. They should divert their tendency for happiness differently than by killing and drinking.

Devotee (1): They are thinking they cannot live without eating cows.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (1): They think they cannot live without eating cows.

Prabhupāda: They do not know. We can teach them how to get better vitaminous foodstuff from cow's milk. Yes. Let the cow live, and she supplies her blood in the form of milk, and you take vitaminous foodstuff from milk. That is civilization. Milk is also cow's blood. But take this blood in a humanely way, not by killing. Milk is nothing but blood of cow. Suppose if you kill one cow, you get blood how much, how many pounds?

Room Conversation -- June 30, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: Wherefrom this beauty, nice flower, nice leaves, everything comes? Wherefrom? So I shall have to go?

Śyāmasundara: The television show is at seven?

Bhakta dāsa: Yes, seven o'clock. Would you still like to go for a drive and see some of the city? The car is all ready.

Prabhupāda: (to guest) Take more. Come to our temple daily in the morning at seven. Are you coming there?

Guest: Yes. I was staying at the Detroit temple with Bhagavān.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Guest: I was helping the band a little bit. And I came to see you, and I was wondering what I should do to serve you. I should go back to Detroit?

Prabhupāda: Or you can remain here also, anywhere. We have got temple in Los Angeles. Have you been in Los Angeles?

Guest: No.

Prabhupāda: So come to Los Angeles and stay there for some time. I am going to Los Angeles tomorrow, so you can come. Live with us and you will be happy. We can guarantee you will be happy. Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Our Vedic mission is sarve sukhino bhavantu: everyone be happy. This is our mission. And we know how to become happy. That is our credit. We know. How to become happy we know. Therefore, you can inform others also how to become happy. Happiness is our birthright. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Living entity is ānandamaya, full of happiness, but they have fallen in a different condition. Therefore unhappy. Different condition. Just like fish taken out of the water and put into the land, a different condition, and it is throbbing, flapping, unhappy. Take it, put it in the water again, and it will be happy. That's it.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: They want to see me? They want to see me?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: No, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Then? What he says?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: He says that when they were on their way to New York City, the students distributed hundred Back to Godhead and went on saṅkīrtana.

Devotee (2): In two days Dvārakādhīśa distributed over a hundred.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: And Dvārakādhīśa did over a hundred in two days.

Prabhupāda: Very good. That's a great service. What is that?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: He has a camera. He's making a movie.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Why it is fixed up?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: (to devotee) What are you doing?

Devotee (3): Oh, I was watching the boys' faces... Watching them.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: You're not shooting yet?

Devotee (3): No. At any time I can shoot, yes.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. (to Prabhupāda) He's adjusting the camera.

Devotee child (2): How come you don't you carry your tridaṇḍa with you?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee child (2): Why don't you carry your tridaṇḍa with you?

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Devotee child (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, when you drink like that, that's śuci, right?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee child (1): When you drink like that, that's śuci.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Sumati Morarjee: (indistinct) brought up in United, he was in Bombay all these, he's educated in Bombay.

Devotee: Juna, Juhu?

Sumati Morarjee: No, no. Junagar.

Prabhupāda: No, no, Junagar is a city.

Sumati Morarjee: You know in Saurastra.

Prabhupāda: Saurastra.

Devotee: Oh, yes.

Sumati Morarjee: There, he was born, bred, educated. He is from Bombay and Junagar, Saurastra. Like (indistinct), (indistinct) last time before Pakistan came to my house, we were old friends, so he came to my house, so I...

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) was older than you.

Sumati Morarjee: Oh?

Prabhupāda: Oh yes, he was a (indistinct)

Sumati Morarjee: I know, and he was a communist member before.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1972, London:

Devotee: Who is that man?

Prabhupāda: Mr. Nair. Mrs. Nair. She is, she is also very nice devotee. So every year four lakhs of rupees, in three years, or four years, fourteen lakhs, without any interest. So we have got good facility. And in Vṛndāvana, some gentleman has given us the land.

Devotee: Is the land in Vṛndāvana, is it in the city? Is it on the outside of Vṛndāvana, or is it in the city?

Prabhupāda: No, it is just in front of Bon Mahārāja's college.

Devotee: It's in Rāman Reti.

Prabhupāda: (laughter) Best place in Vṛndāvana. All (indistinct). And we have got potential. There are so many buildings, they are not being properly utilized. If we want to, you can purchase the whole area.

Devotee: How is the Gauḍīya...

Prabhupāda: Now you have got enough place in Vṛndāvana, in Navadvīpa, in Bombay. There will be no difficulty if you go by thousands to India. You can live very comfortable. So you can go, purchase, you can go and come back. We saw that foreigners, they visit, and gradually, there will be unity between the so-called Hindu, Muslim, all Kṛṣṇa's servant. This is the idea behind Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We don't believe in this skin disease. (end)

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: So why not see earlier? Have you got any description?

Dhanañjaya: Well, we can't see it earlier because it belongs to the Methodist Church, and their committee members are meeting in another city, in Manchester, for a week. They have their..., a big congress meeting there. So they don't come back until the end of this week.

Devotee (1): So we can't see it while they're meeting?

Dhanañjaya: Well we could see it from the outside. Actually we went there one day, Mr. Allen(?) and (indistinct) and myself.

Prabhupāda: Well, what is the description?

Dhanañjaya: It's very nice. It's something like, ah, something like the size of this temple but bigger.

Devotee (2): Bigger than Los Angeles?

Dhanañjaya: And also it has a steeple.

Prabhupāda: Bigger, bigger. What is the price?

Dhanañjaya: Oh, more than 250,000 pounds.

Devotee (2): Quarter of a million pounds. Two lakhs of pounds.

Devotee (1): So that's six million dollars?

Dhanañjaya: No, one million. One million dollars.

Prabhupāda: You have got?

Devotee (2): No, it's not a million dollars. It's only 600,000.

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee: There's not even enough hotel rooms to accommodate so many tourists who come here to London.

Prabhupāda: London is still famous. People outside, they have got very high idea about London.

Devotee: Civilized. Very civilized city.

Prabhupāda: Why civilized? Do you think it is especially civilized?

Devotee: Well, a lot more than America anyway. By comparison it seems civilized, in the sense that there is not so much violence. There's not... People are honest, upright, moral, a little more.

Prabhupāda: In America general life is becoming wretched.

Devotee: Wretched. Police don't even carry guns here.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee: Policemen don't even carry guns in Britain, but in America every policeman's got at least one gun.

Prabhupāda: The Englishman... I've studied Englishman. They consider America is still uncivilized. They say like that. (indistinct)

Devotee: Still uncivilized, yeah.

Prabhupāda: But here also hippy-ism growing.

Devotee: They've lost that old aristocracy civilization. Losing it fast.

Prabhupāda: So write Girirāja immediately a letter, that she agreed to be president of the trust. You make a trust body for fund-raising, and our best life members, like Sumati Morarji, and make her the president of the trust. You remain the secretary, and other also, as treasurer also. One or two of her own men.

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: ...trailer, yes, two wheel. Oh, it will go.

Devotee: The advantage of the van is that they can sleep in it.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee: The advantage of a van is that it can be used for sleeping purposes also.

Prabhupāda: Sleeping purposes in India, tropical country, if you carry camp, if you want to sleep somewhere you just immediately set up a camp and pass night very comfortable. And you go on the field passing stool. Just catch up some watery place. (laughter) You can cook, you can take bath, you can wash your dishes, then put up on the trailer and go on.

Devotee: Mostly we'll be going to big...

Prabhupāda: I'll agree if you can send one van also, two cars and one van.

Devotee: Mostly we'll be going to bigger cities anyway. The roads between big cities are all right. But if we go places...

Prabhupāda: Work sincerely and everything will be supplied by Kṛṣṇa. Now take... (end)

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: Our Indian etiquette is that, first brāhmaṇas, then woman, children, then others.

Lucille: In Mexico too, the older people.

Prabhupāda: Oh, you are coming from Mexico?

Lucille: No, I have...

Prabhupāda: We have got our temple in Mexico City. What is the address of our temple?

Śyāmasundara: It's near Chapultepec Park.

Lucille: I hope to go visit my grandmother.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Mexico is very nice city. I have gone there.

Guest (2): Being a brāhmaṇa by birth, does it mean anything?

Prabhupāda: No, they are not born of brāhmaṇa father. Now they are brāhmaṇas.

Guest (2): But you were saying about brāhmaṇas, so I...

Prabhupāda: Brāhmaṇas means qualified brāhmaṇas. When you say engineer, that means qualified engineer, not born engineer. Engineer is not born. "Because his father is engineer, he is engineer." And what is this? You become engineer. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). There must be qualification and work; otherwise what kind of brāhmaṇa? (Hindi) These are all milk preparation. We can make so many hundreds and thousands of milk preparation. Instead of cutting the throat of the cows, why don't you use her milk? Dallas is a great place for cutting the throat of cows?

Śyāmasundara: All over Texas.

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Śyāmasundara: All over Texas.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest (2): Fort Worth.

Śyāmasundara: Where we went to that television show today, that was Fort Worth. That's another city. They have more slaughterhouses.

Guest (2): I had some arguments about this. Some people won't eat cow. They say, "It's not Indian cow, so we can eat it." (laughs) All kinds of intelligent arguments.

Prabhupāda: Indian people say like that?

Guest (2): Some of them, not all. It's not said, anybody. It's just argument of people that... Even Americans. People, they say, "We are not killing your sacred cow because your sacred cow is in your country." It was long ago, I remember. During lunch break we had some argument.

Prabhupāda: Then what are these? American cows?

Guest (2): Yes. They said, "Our cows are not holy."

Prabhupāda: Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). They are blind. They do not know about self. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Everyone is born fool. So fool's activities means defeat. So human life, although born fool, they should have knowledge. Without knowledge all their activities are defeat of life, parābhava. So long he is not inquisitive to understand what is his self, whatever he is doing, it is simply for his defeat, parābhava.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is the nature. Just like your body, my body, we came from a seed. (indistinct) Unlimited expansion. There are so many examples. Just like the boys play with soap (indistinct).

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, soap bubble.

Prabhupāda: The bubble. It is expanded and popped. It is like that. Kṛṣṇa says (Sanskrit) aśāśvatam, and we are seeing, experiencing every day. So why should we spoil our life by making adjustment in this popped universe? It will be popped, and all arrangement phat. Everyone knows it. Such a nice city of Los Angeles, there is no guarantee. Within a second, it can be inundated, go within the womb of this ocean.

Jayatīrtha: You can get any kind of insurance on a building here in Los Angeles but the only kind, it's so expensive, no one can afford, is earthquake insurance. Hardly anyone will write earthquake insurance because they have such a fear that the earthquake will come at any time, and no one wants to gamble their money on someone else's building, that it will not fall apart in an earthquake. The threefold miseries are always a factor. No one can avoid them. (indistinct) asked one question. Someone sent some dust from the...

Prabhupāda: We go this way?

Jayatīrtha: Somebody sent some dust from the bhajan-kutir of the Gosvāmīs of Vṛndāvana, and he was wondering whether it could be put on the altar in some little brass box, on Lord Caitanya's altar.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Altar is the seat of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The devotee's dust cannot go there.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha: The Indians would never be able to compete on the Britishers' platform.

Prabhupāda: No. Under the British rule, from the childhood they are subjected to the propaganda. We read one book, small book, by M. Ghose. The subject matter was England's work in India. That was a compulsory reading book in the schools. And in that book, it was simply stated that "we are uncivilized, but since the Britishers have come, we are becoming civilized. "This is the subject matter of that book, "England's work in India." So everything Indian... The Jawaharlal is the typical example—everything Indian is bad. That was his philosophy. Gandhi was trying to get the Indians back to village. His philosophy was that these capitalists, they are exploiting these poor men, so all these poor men, they should go back to village and be satisfied with the village economy, not to come out. Actually that's a very nice program. But as soon as Gandhi died, or he was killed, the whole program was changed-industrialization and attract the poor man and let them live in wretched condition of city life. Gandhi's policy was to make them happy by agriculture in the village, produce their own cloth, not in the mill but in charka.

Jayatīrtha: Spinning wheel.

Prabhupāda: Spinning wheel, they were spinning thread. Simple life and morality. No drinking of (indistinct) or tea, no smoking, and raghupati rāghava rāja rāma. This was his program. Hindu-Muslim unity. But all his programs failed. He died very dissatisfied.

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Śyāmasundara: And the father of one of our Godbrothers from America, Mr. Teton, he's from Chicago, he was there with Girirāja, and she was saying to him, his sister was saying to him, "You're so fortunate that your son is a devotee." He's a very wealthy attorney in Chicago, and his only son is a devotee, but he is somewhat, from material point of view, he was somewhat confused. So she said, "You should be very happy that your son is a devotee. I have eight sons, and they are not like your son."

Guru dāsa: You met Girirāja. He came last time to the city.

Ambassador: Oh, yes. I remember. Yes, yes.

Guru dāsa: He's from Chicago.

Ambassador: That's right. Now he, uh, he has a wife here? No? He's not married?

Prabhupāda: No, he's not.

Ambassador: But your wife is here?

Śyāmasundara: Yes, she's here in India.

Ambassador: It's a lovely little girl, and so well behaved. She must have already had a part of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Our little girls at that age don't behave so well, usually. But she is so quiet and sweet.

Śyāmasundara: Her only education has been from Prabhupāda.

Ambassador and Guest: Really!

Śyāmasundara: Completely. She doesn't know anything but Kṛṣṇa and...

Mrs. Keating: Really.

Ambassador: How old is she?

Śyāmasundara: Three.

Ambassador: Three.

Mrs. Keating: But she doesn't tell me her name. (child giggles)

Prabhupāda: This is bad reputation.

Śyāmasundara: Why don't you chant for her?

Ambassador: Could you chant?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. She can chant. Sarasvatī prabhu, chant little.

Morning Walk -- October 15, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Śyāmasundara: At that time Vṛndāvana was existing as a village or mostly open area?

Prabhupāda: Formerly, before Lord Caitanya's coming here, this was open fields. Nothing...

Śyāmasundara: So everything has been built up.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) So after the Gosvāmīs came here, practically, all this Vṛndāvana city has developed. Before that, it was open fields. (Hindi) You developed this photo here in India also?

Devotee (1): Ah, some of it.

Indian man: At least mine and Swamiji.

Prabhupāda: You send some copies here.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) You can take one photograph alone. Have you got (indistinct).

Śyāmasundara: This man here. This man.

Devotee: Where?

Śyāmasundara: Right here. Is he one of your old friends?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Introduction Speech By Dr. Kapoor and Conversation -- October 15, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So blessings of Dr. O.B.L. Kapoor. He is a Vaiṣṇava. Although by age he is my younger brother, we are Godbrothers, and for the last forty years perhaps, since he was a student at Allahabad and I was doing some business there, we are known to each other. So his association is a great blessing for us. But this reception is actually not my reception. It is the reception of my foreign students. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted that His message should be broadcast all over the world, in every village and every town, and my Guru Mahārāja attempted. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura distributed his literature. I think, in 1896, he sent his first book, Teachings of Lord Caitanya, and I saw in McGill University that book. And I do not know. That was the year of my birth also, 1896. So somehow or other, later on, I came in contact with Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja in 1922, and he immediately asked me that "Why don't you go to the foreign countries and preach Caitanya Mahāprabhu's blessings." So I was little surprised. Especially at that time, I was very young man and I was newly married. I got one son also. So it was my mistake that I did not take up the words of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja immediately. I thought that "I am now married. Let me settle down." Perhaps if I would have joined from 1922, by the blessings of Guru Mahārāja, I could do more preaching work. Anyway, it is better late than never. After my retirement, I was living in the Keśī-ghāṭa, Nāthagrāma(?) Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Temple. But this Gosāijī, Gauracanda Gosāijī, he asked me, "Why don't you come here?" So I left that place. I came here. And with some arrangement, I took this room. But I was always thinking that "Guru Mahārāja asked me, and he asked also some of my other God-brothers, but up till now, nothing has been done. So let me try, at least, at the fag end of my life." So I left Vṛndāvana in 1970 and went to New York. Uh, not. 1965. At the age of 70 years. But for one year I had no place to live. I took some of my books, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, printed here, up to three parts, First Canto. And I was personally selling these books to the book sellers and to the persons any way. With great difficulty I was pulling on. And New York is a very expensive city, a great city, a great forest. (laughs) And I am poor man. So then it is a long history. Then I began chanting in the Tompkinson Square, and I think, in the first day this boy, Acyutānanda Mahārāja now, he and another boy, Brahmānanda Mahārāja, he is also preaching in Africa, these two boys danced, and this photograph was published in the New York Times with great details. That was the first encouragement. And after chanting in the park, many young men and girls used to come to my apartment and my meeting place. In this way I started, first in New York, then in San Francisco, then Montreal, then Boston. In this way, now we have got about one hundred branches all over the world, forty branches in America. Big, big cities, Australia, I mean to say, Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, and Boston. What is that? Other cities? San Francisco.

Introduction Speech By Dr. Kapoor and Conversation -- October 15, 1972, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kapoor: Ah. Kṛṣṇa is working wonders.

Prabhupāda: So, what is this?

Devotee: Trilogy is not at this place. I think we have it here.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's all right. So by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, whichever book we are publishing, that is being accepted. And people inquire when they go for saṅkīrtana in big, big cities, they inquire, "Have you got this book? Have you got this book?" Yes. And we are receiving mail orders, at least twenty mail orders. And this time I was surprised. They have taken a godown in Los Angeles. This is bigger than the Rādhā-Dāmodara temple, so big. Only for stocking books and incense. We are manufacturing incense. That I suggested. Sometimes I went to Ramakrishna mission and I saw they are selling incense. So I suggested that "Why don't you..." So I gave them idea how to manufacture. Because I have...

Dr. Kapoor: You have the background.

Prabhupāda: I can give them. They are asking me about my pain liniment and the eczema ointment. (laughter) I can give them. I can give them.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:

Indian man: Great risk.

Prabhupāda: Yes. These rascals at any time can arrest anyone and keep in him the concentration camp. Oh, it is a dangerous government. And they will take you anywhere, nobody will know. Just like even a great person, Kruschev, nobody knows his whereabouts. It is a very dangerous government. But as they are advertising, people are not happy. Moscow city is nice, but it is old constructed. The same Communistic government has not done anything. There are very big, big buildings, nice roads, everything, but they are all old, not new.

Devotee (3): What they are doing with their wealth?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (3): What they are doing with their wealth?

Prabhupāda: Wealth?

Devotee (3): What are they doing with their wealth if they are not investing it in economic...

Prabhupāda: They're simply spending for military, that's all.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Yes, thank you very much. (to guest:) You don't take charge of that.

Devotee: We will take that. (break) Yes. This is Mr. Ivy Mastram and he is in charge of the Hindu and Buddhist Department of the Department of Religion. And this is his next-in-command, director-general, Mr. G. Puja. He was educated in India also.

Prabhupāda: Oh, really. Which city?

Guest (2): Benares (indistinct) University.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Benares University.

Devotee: Actually, they have arranged by giving a letter, that we can stay in the country. They simply say, "We do not object," and then the immigration gives us a good visa. They especially like your books.

Prabhupāda: Oh, thank you. You have read some of my books?

Guest (2): Yes.

Prabhupāda: They are not my books. I am simply translating. They are written by Vyāsadeva, the original Vedic scholar. So there are now many secular states. Our Vedic idea of secular state is the government must be responsible of proper execution of religious system. It doesn't matter whether one is Hindu or one is Christian, one is Mohammedan or Buddhist. It doesn't matter. But it is a government duty to see that one who is professing as Hindu whether he's executing the Hindu principles of religion properly. That is government. Just like government gives license to so many businesses. One man is selling liquor, wine, government issues license. So the government inspector, excise inspector, goes and sees that the man is doing business according to the license. Government should not be callous that "You may go on with your so-called religion, we don't care for it." No. That is not government. Government's duty is to see, just like for example, Christians, their commandment, first commandment is, "Thou shalt not kill." It is the government's duty to see that anyone who is professing Christian, "Why he's killing?" Immediately he should be punished that "You are professing as Christian and you are killing." This is government.

Room Conversations with Sannyasis -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Now, such camps, because you are not established, so, under the circumstances, what is to be done? To reduce our devotees?

Śyāmasundara: We have our base in Calcutta, we have our base in Bombay, those two places.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Śyāmasundara: Those are important cities in the world.

Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana, as long as our temple is not constructed, we are minimized. So therefore automatically there is no question of negotiating (indistinct).

Devotees: No, no.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (2): Because not everyone is going to want to be, uh, you know, it's really, if the temple's not there where the devotees can just come and fall into the schedule and program and activities.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But... Thing is that they are studying the laws very nicely. That's good. But they should appreciate that who has made this law? That is their defect. They are studying how the laws of nature is working. That's nice. But they should appreciate at the same time: Who made such subtle laws that they are working so nicely? That is our philosophy. We do not only study the laws and appreciate it, but we study the law-maker also. That is the difference between ourself and the so-called scientists. They are left, poor fund of knowledge. They cannot appreciate that there is a law-maker of these subtle laws. That is their defect. That is called poor fund of knowledge. And as soon as we accept law-maker, we have to accept that He's a person, He has got brain. Therefore He can make laws. Just like the great ocean is working, but there is a law. It cannot come here. Although there is potency. At any second it can cover the whole city But there is a law. Just like state laws. Up to this. No more admission. You have to stop. Similarly, there is law of God. Where there is order: You mighty ocean, you cannot come beyond this. This is law. There is sun. "You must rise at half-past, at five o'clock in the morning." "Yes, sir." This is law. "You must rise on the Eastern side." "Yes, Sir." Not whimsically. Sometimes this side, sometimes that side, sometimes that side. Cannot do whimsically. That is law of nature. And behind the law of nature, there is the order-giver, law-maker. This is perfect knowledge. mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). "Under My superintendence, the laws of nature is working." This is intelligence. We are teaching people this intelligence. That's all. We don't decry that your studying of the laws of nature is useless. We don't say that. We say: "Not so much. This is imperfect. Go forward still." And that is perfection. You are a science student. By your scientific knowledge, you prove that behind these laws, there is Kṛṣṇa. Then your scientific knowledge is perfect. Either from the chemical department or physical department or electrical department. Any department. It doesn't matter.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh, they don't charge?

Karandhara: No. If you don't charge people for coming to the function, they don't charge you for using this place.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice.

Karandhara: It's owned by the city.

Prabhupāda: This is good. We can hold meetings, distribute prasādam. (pause) They have discovered computer machine...?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And put some sand in it. Let it count. Not very much. A handful of sand and put in. The machine will stop. The result will be the machine will be no more working.

Svarūpa Dāmodara:Computer will reject.

Prabhupāda: Eh.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Computer will reject, saying that: "I cannot do it."

Prabhupāda: They reject?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Something which is not possible...

Prabhupāda: Then, then it is imperfect. If he cannot count, reject, then it is imperfect. Hare Rāma Hare Rāma...

Karandhara: They would estimate.

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: Proper. Kanpur proper.

Krishna Tiwari: Yes. We were originally from a village, but we're living in Kanpur now.

Prabhupāda: Kanpur. It's a big city.

Krishna Tiwari: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Industrial city.

Krishna Tiwari: My name is Krishna Tiwari.

Prabhupāda: Tiwari.

Krishna Tiwari: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Oh. In Kanpur I had an old friend—he was just like my father-Tiwari. Very rich man. They have got their temple.

Krishna Tiwari: Which place? I probably know it.

Prabhupāda: In Kanpur there is a big temple that belongs to the Tiwari family. It is famous temple. Many people go there to visit.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: You said three pounds?

Śyāmasundara: He told me. He said "Two-three, it's only worth two-three pounds."

Mukunda: One man said three pounds.

Prabhupāda: So why don't you sell to them? (laughter)

Śyāmasundara: If we tell them... If we go around the city, we could probably get four pounds for it somewhere.

Prabhupāda: So get the best price and sell it.

Śyāmasundara: All right.

Prabhupāda: I don't want any antique. (laughter)

Śyāmasundara: Yeah. Oh, this... Which king is this?

David Wynne: That's William the (indistinct)

Śyāmasundara: Oh, King William. The British...

Prabhupāda: I think Queen Victoria's father. King William. Is it not?

David Wynne: Uh huh. (Yes.)

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: But if there is clear idea, why they should not take it? Why they should speculate "perhaps," "maybe"?

Mr. Wadell: But there are many things about which I cannot have any clear idea. I cannot...

Prabhupāda: No, you cannot have but if you get clear idea, why you do not take it.

Mr. Wadell: No, I mean even in the physical realm. I cannot at this moment conceive what it is like, say, to be in Sydney, in many cities in the world. There are many things, many bits of knowledge which I cannot have. I cannot be everywhere at once. I am here now. I do not even know what is happening in the place from which I have come.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mr. Wadell: And I must accept that. I cannot be certain about that. Would you not agree?

Prabhupāda: But if there is a process... Suppose you are not in Sydney, but if there is a radio message from Sydney, how do you accept it?

Mr. Wadell: Oh, well, I'd believe it.

Prabhupāda: Then that is a question of belief.

Room Conversation with Educationists -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Staten Island?

Haṁsadūta: Staten Island.

Prabhupāda: Crossing by ferry, one hour. Then waiting for bus, another hour. Then going to the office. Then after office, they're coming back. Again going. Whole day, they're dependent on everything. That is the condition in New York. It is to be supposed: the most advanced city. The same thing is everywhere. People are becoming dependent, śūdra, just like dogs. A dog, unless he gets a nice master, he's not happy. So at the present moment, all the population, just like the cats and dogs, they're dependent. They are not intelligent. Intelligence means he must be independent. That is intelligence. And people are struggling for independence. That is their motive. Everyone is struggling hard for independence. Because that is the culmination of intelligence. So our problem is that we do not know what we are. Neither we know how to get out of the miserable condition of life. Therefore we have no intelligence. We are like cats and dogs. This is the conclusion. What do you think? Am I right or wrong?

Guest (1): I couldn't follow you.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest (1): I haven't followed you.

Prabhupāda: No, what is your opinion, my description of intelligence and not, no intelligence?

Guest (1): I think you're right.

Prabhupāda: Thank you. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1973, London:

Pradyumna: Yes. All children live there too. It is very nice.

Prabhupāda: So these houses. Now we have got four or five houses. Two houses of the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust and three houses of M.V. Trust.

Pradyumna: It will be a city. It's so nice, all the children live there together. Next door there is Baladeva, that little boy with red hair. Aniruddha, he is blond hair and another boy with red hair, he is next door. He is best friend. They always play, all boys.

Prabhupāda: Hm. And in the front house, there is ample space back there for children's play. This will facilitate... Very nice. And then one house after, there is another house.

Pradyumna: Yes, up on the street, on our side of street.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Watseka. And that is Venice. On Venice we have got two house. The real estate men, they think of us—very, very rich. (laughs) After purchasing these houses. Here also, we can have very nice colony, in this village. There are so many land, houses are for sale. If we can organize. Now you utilize these lands for growing fruit, flower, anything, whatever you can grow. But utilize this land. It doesn't matter what you would grow, anything. Who will be in charge?

Devotee: Bhaja Hari. (?)

Prabhupāda: Bhaja Hari. Where is he?

Devotee: He is in his office downstairs.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: If they do not know the law of karma and the transmigration of the soul, change of body, that means no intellectual...

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes, yes. (pause)

Prabhupāda: So let us...

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Now, in India more people are living in the western way, though, living in cities, working in factories and offices. Does this make them have the western state of mind, the western point of view? Or can they resist it?

Prabhupāda: No, everything can be changed. If they take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The consciousness has to be changed.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, that... Yes.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise, let him work in the factory or in the office, in the city. It doesn't matter. One has to change his consciousness. Then he's perfect, Kṛṣṇa conscious, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That consciousness has to be changed. Then everything will be, automatically become...

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes. (pause)

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Reporter: Like poverty, and this lack of balance between rich and poor. How these problems can be solved?

Prabhupāda: That, that... Gandhi wanted to solve it, but you rejected. Gandhi wanted it to... Village organization. He started that Wardha Ashram. But you have rejected. What Gandhi can do? That was good proposal—to remain satisfied in one's own place. That was Gandhi's proposal. That "Don't go to the city, town, for so-called better advantage of life. Remain in your own home, produce your food, and be satisfied there." That was Gandhi's policy. The economic problem he wanted to solve by keeping cows, by agriculture, by spinning thread. "You want food, shelter and cloth? Produce here, and remain here. Don't be allured by the capitalists and go to cities and engage in industries." But Jawaharlal Nehru wanted, overnight, to Americanize the whole India. That is the folly.

Reporter: Hm. Hm. I agree.

Prabhupāda: The Congress side, the followers of Gandhi should have followed Gandhi's principles—from political point of view. Village organization. But they won't do that.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: What is his philosophy?

Reporter: His philosophy is... He is a bhak..., a devotee, I think. He is very much a devotee. But he is also preaching what Gandhi was preaching, for village organization and simple living and producing food and clothes, in the village, and not going to the city. This is his principle, on the economy scale. And on the spiritual end, religious, he's a brahma-vidyā. He's seeking brahma-vidyā. And he has in Padnab(?) Brahma-vidya Mandir.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Reporter: So he is... He is a follower of Śaṅkarācārya.

Prabhupāda: Mukti, bhukti.

Reporter: Ah?

Prabhupāda: Mukti.

Reporter: Mukti, yes.

Prabhupāda: Piśācī.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Oh. Saint Theresa?

Revatīnandana: Mother Theresa. She's living there now.

Jesuit Priest: She's an Albanian nun who works in India and is, and has captivated the whole world just by the fantastic work she's done and is doing amongst the down, the outcastes and the desperately poor in the cities of India, particularly in Calcutta. And she's got disciples, young men, young women, joining her, where most of the other religious orders are desperately short. And the youth is being captivated by her, and they can't cope with the numbers wanting to join. And she was given a big speech in the Guild Hall in London and was the first person presented with an enormous sum of money by the Duke of Edinburgh, voted by the World Council of Churches as the outstanding religious person in the world. And people at her speech who heard, it brought the audience to its feet. And all she said in her speech was nothing more except "Love, love, love, love. Just go on giving and look for nothing back," which made an enormous impact, probably the greatest impact that anybody's making at present, in the world at present. (jet going over) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...satisfied to remain in the village. That is the defect of the modern civilization.

Mother: In India, you mean. You're talking of India now.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere.

Mother: Everywhere.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everywhere.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: India, actually, they do so.

Mother: Yes.

Prabhupāda: The villagers, they have cows and land. That is sufficient for their economic problem. But the industrialists, they are alluring them, "To get more money, come here." So they are going to the cities. And the food production in the village is neglected. And therefore the food grain price is rising. Actually, everyone should be engaged to produce food, but the modern set-up of civilization is that few people are engaged in producing food, and others are eating. They are offering... They are artificially getting money. So they are offering paper, "Here is ten dollars." Although it is a paper, cheating. And they are captivated by cheating. They, they are thinking, "I have got now hundred dollars." What is this hundred dollars? It is paper. So some people are cheating and some people are being cheated. This is the society.

Mother: Yes. But I think one has to be clever enough not to let people cheat you.

Prabhupāda: Clever means that he must stay in his own land. He should not be cheated by the paper and go to the city.

Mother: But we have to teach our young to be able to define between those who cheat and those who..., be able to tell people who...

Prabhupāda: The whole civilization is a plan of cheating others. That's all. And they're all sinful. According to our Vedic understanding, there are four things sinful, pillars of sinful life: illicit sex, unnecessary killing of animals, intoxication and gambling.

Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London:

Revatīnandana: And just like yesterday, Mahādeva's parents came here, his mother came here along with a Jesuit family priest, about sixty years old. And she accused us that we had come and kidnapped him out of the university. And we said, "Actually, we didn't kidnap him. He came to our temple and didn't want to go away," which is what happened. She said, "Well, that's because he took some LSD and he had a false religious experience." So then I asked the Jesuit priest, "If your religious experience is as pure as he had just been saying, then why was this boy, trained up in a Jesuit school, seeking after spiritual life from a false religious process? Why was he taking LSD in the first place if his religion was satisfactory?" And he couldn't answer it. He said, "Well, there seems to be some kind of a spiritual," what did he say, "a spiritual lack or a spiritual something at this time for some reason." But he would not define it that he was unable to fill that spiritual lack by his process. And yet, we have filled that lack, or our spiritual master has filled that lack for thousands of young people now, who are not only God conscious, but they're practicing it every minute of every day. And they're practicing it practically, in the city or in the community or in the farm or wherever they are. So it's not that we're contesting the origins. The origin from Christ may have been very pure, but its present manifestation appears to be lacking something. And the young people are seeing that.

Prabhupāda: Just for example, that in the Ten Commandments, the first Commandment is "Thou shall not kill." So when I ask any Christian gentleman, "Then why you are killing?" they cannot give me any satisfactory answer. (pause)

Revatīnandana: How does the, how does the process of animal slaughter in the slaughterhouse as we find it today, how does it fit in your philosophy for, say, changing the society? Where do you put that in your philosophy?

Schumacher: Well, I think one should try and do without it. You can't everywhere do without it. It's like all nonviolence. It's a direction of movement, to try to do your utmost to go as far as...

Revatīnandana: So wherever possible, the slaughtering business should not go on.

Schumacher: That's right. But the Eskimos, for instance...

Prabhupāda: That is another thing.

Car Conversation after meeting with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That is another story. No Indians are dying, not by eating cow's flesh. That, that is the theory at the present moment given. But there are so many vegetarians in India. They do not touch even fish, or eggs, or animal flesh. They're quite healthy. It does not mean...

Yogeśvara: I think his answer would be that vegetarianism is reserved to the rich people who can afford it. That if you're poor, you have to eat whatever you can get.

Prabhupāda: Well. Now in India, meat is selling at high price than vegetable. Yes.

Yogeśvara: He said now in India meat is selling at a higher price than vegetables.

Prabhupāda: That is no logic.

Yogeśvara: Not logic.

Prabhupāda: Price of meat is higher than milk and vegetables. So in that consideration, why not take vegetable and milk. Why you go to meat? So she is driving taxi, girls also drive taxi?

Yogeśvara: Oh, yes.

Satsvarūpa: In New York City, they also drive taxi.

Prabhupāda: Girls?

Satsvarūpa: Yes. They get more business. (end)

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Which district?

Dr. Inger: Lahore.

Prabhupāda: Lahore.

Dr. Inger: Lahore.

Prabhupāda: Lahore City proper.

Dr. Inger: Yes. I taught there. And then, of course, it was divided, and, before that, I came here and joined.

Prabhupāda: I went to Lahore sometimes.

Dr. Inger: I see.

Prabhupāda: In 1925. There, in Lahore, there is, there were many Bengalis.

Dr. Inger: Oh yes. Yes.

Prabhupāda: So one Bengali gentleman, he was Mr. Mitha, they were physician. So I became his guest. They were very well-to-do men. They were living therefore two, three generations. Mithi family.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Desert expands. As everything expands and diminishes, desert also... That is nature's course. Desert means less production. So na..., if nature wants, she can make the whole world desert. What your tractors and so many agricultural machines will help? It will turn into desert. There will be no rain. What you can do? And still you are very proud of your scientific advancement. You cannot struggle with nature.

Bhagavān: They have one city in Italy. It's called Venice. And it's built... They say they have conquered the ocean. So they've gone out into the ocean and built it up, and there are so many houses. And you travel through the city on boat. That's the only way you can get... And now the city's sinking.

Prabhupāda: Sinking?

Bhagavān: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Then what they are doing?

Bhagavān: They are concerned.

Prabhupāda: The indication is already there. Still, they are not alarmed. They have to leave that place. Sinking also Mexico.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Haṁsadūta: Mexico, yes. Mexico City is built on..., also (indistinct). But that's not very... In New York, in New York, you know, they have so many tunnels under the ground that every now and then there's some place, some place just caves in, the street will suddenly just cave in. Because there's so many tunnels for electric wires and plumbing, for the subways, everything. And the whole thing is...

Prabhupāda: I have seen in New York, Park Street...

Devotees: Park Avenue.

Prabhupāda: Park Avenue, that one skyscraper foundation was... And I see within the foundation, the subway train is running.

Haṁsadūta: Within the foundation.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And I was looking at least five, ten stories from the subway.

Haṁsadūta: They're working so much just for this...

Guru-gaurāṅga: They have people here in Paris that work in the subway, in the Metro. And when they have to make repairs, they close the Metro down, twelve o'clock at night, and they come and work from twelve o'clock at night all through the brāhma-muhūrta and work in the Metro, on the tracks, and they leave at four in the morning, and the Metro starts again. And there are so many people working in holes in the ground all night like that.

Haṁsadūta: Working just at night. Underground.

Prabhupāda: Repairing?

Haṁsadūta: Repairing.

Prabhupāda: Mouse business. This repairing and working is done by the mouse also.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Bhagavān: Instead of an express to Goloka.

Prabhupāda: No. Yes. That is natural. Only the strong devotees, they don't like. "No, I don't want to see anything. I want to go immediately to Kṛṣṇa." That is strong devotion. Because they are after, mad after seeing Kṛṣṇa. Yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam, śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvam. For them, the whole universe is vacant for want of Kṛṣṇa. Just like if you love somebody, if he's not seen, you see, in spite of so many cars, you see the whole city of Paris, void, void. You don't give you any pleasure. A strong love for Kṛṣṇa. Śūnyāyitam. Śūnyāyitam means everything vacant. Without seeing Kṛṣṇa, everything is vacant. What is the value of this house or this city? He doesn't take. So higher planetary system means better standard of life. Just like if Indian comes here, materially, they see the higher standard of life in Paris, in London. But because we are interested in Kṛṣṇa, we do not take very much care of this higher standard of life. So higher planetary system means many, many thousand times better standard of life. Many, many thousand times. Just like Brahmaloka, the one day of Brahmā, described, you cannot even calculate mathematically. Just find out: sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). This is the topmost planetary system, Brahmaloka, and the duration of life in Brahmaloka is described in the Bhāgavata, Bhagavad-gītā. Sahasra... S-A-H. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Professor: Well it depends. I like the Golden Gate too because there is the sea not far. Here, in Paris, you have no ocean, nothing.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Professor: Only a small river. That is not the...

Prabhupāda: And on the whole, Paris city is very nice. Very nice. Opulent city.

Professor: And they told me also that this morning you had some brahminical initiation to the...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes.

Professor: ...Gāyatrī.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Professor: How many people?

Prabhupāda: About fifteen.

Professor: That's good. That's good.

Prabhupāda: No, they...

Haṁsadūta: Seven brāhmaṇas and ten first initiates.

Prabhupāda: On the whole, fifteen.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: It is summary study.

Professor: Summary study, yeah. Well, the books are well-printed and very well... I like books like this.

Prabhupāda: This is summary study of Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

Yogeśvara: We also have now the complete Caitanya-caritāmṛta being printed by our own presses in New York City, with the original Bengali.

Prabhupāda: We have got the manuscript printed? Not yet. No...

Professor: Such wonderful books...

Prabhupāda: No, our books are selling nicely.

Professor: (laughs) Well, I believe that. One... It's nice to see that all these books around.

Prabhupāda: Two thousand, three thousand dollars daily.

Yogeśvara: More than that.

Prabhupāda: More than that.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: You were there at seventy-one?

Ambassador: Seventy-one, I was, I think, there. I might have gone to India on leave. I returned in March, the end of March. Because I don't remember the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. I went there in June, 1971.

Ambassador: And did you stay in the city, or did...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, in National Hotel. One Madrasi gentleman...

Ambassador: I remember now, sir. Abhiyarthe(?) Natarajan.

Prabhupāda: Nataraja, yes.

Ambassador: Mr. Natarajan Rao told me because I was away. I was away in Central Asia. I remember his telling me. And Natarajan looked after.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ambassador: I see.

Prabhupāda: So you have heard something about our movement?

Ambassador: General, generally, in general.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: It is, it is the duty of the government to see. That is the government. Strong government means...

Ambassador: It's the Rāma-rājya ideal.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Strong government means that, that government should be very, very vigilant that citizens are doing their duty properly. That is the first duty. They should be given all protection. At the same time... Just like the father gives protection to the children, at the same time, very strict that they are morally and disciplinary, they are going, coming out nice. That is father's duty. It is government's duty. If the father thinks, "Let my son go to hell. I don't care. I give them some food. That's all." Is that father's duty? No. Father's duty, to arrange for their food, for their dress, for their shelter, at the same time, to see that they are growing nice, not rascals. That is father's duty. Similarly, government's duty is that. We see from Vedic śāstra government duty is that. Otherwise why there is need of government? Government... Now it is government. But formerly it was the king. The king must be representative of God. Because... Who is God? God means nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām, eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Kaṭhopaniṣad. So God, what is God? God means He's also person. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām. He is also eternal, He's also cognizant. We are also eternal, we are also cognizant. But what is the difference between God and we? The difference is He maintains us. Eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. Bahu-vacanam, nityānām, cetanānām, this is bahu-vacanam. And nityaḥ, cetanaḥ, eka-vacanam. So what is the difference between this singular number and plural number? The singular number is maintaining the plural number. Eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. So God is maintaining everyone. So difference is that He is so powerful, He can maintain every living entity. He's maintaining the elephants in Africa, who eat, at a time, forty kilos. He's supplying food. There's no scarcity of food in the jungle for the elephants. Neither there is scarcity... In the hole of your room, you'll find hundreds and thousands of ui. Who is feeding them, within the hole? Unless they're eating, sleeping, the same thing are there. How they are living very nicely? But who is giving them food within the hole? A small hole. You did not provide that hole. You did not provide their food. But there are hundreds and millions of ants. They're living there within the hole very happily. Sometimes they come out. We see: "Oh, wherefrom so many hundreds coming?" So eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. That is God. He's supplying food. So there are 8,400,000 different forms of living entities. Out of that, 400,000 are human beings. Out of that, many are uncivilized. The uncivilized aborigines live in the jungle. They have no economic problem. They're also human being. They never come to city for food. They are maintaining themselves. The elephants are maintaining. The ants are maintaining. Why the civilized, a few men, they have got so problem, so many problems? Because they... We are not the only living entities.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Haṁsadūta: Those tent huts?

Prabhupāda: They are on the... You have seen in Bombay?

Ambassador: Yes.

Prabhupāda: We passed, when we passed while coming from aerodrome to city...

Ambassador: From...

Prabhupāda: So many thatched cottages, small. So Bombay government has given them home, that "You come here, live." But what do they...? they rent to some, another man, and they live in the... In Madras also, I have seen.

Ambassador: I know. That's true.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They don't like. They don't like. They want to...

Ambassador: They roam, yes. It's what the gypsies did, you know.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ambassador: When they were given houses in Moscow.

Prabhupāda: So there are different prakṛtis. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). So there are different prakṛtis, different mentality. They want to live, eat. The eating, sleeping, mating, defending is there, but everyone has got different ideas. Just like you say, majority of people, they want to eat meat. They have got different mentality. But we don't want.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Trinidad.

Dr. Hauser: When did this movement start in the western hemisphere?

Haṁsadūta: 1966, in New York City. The teachings are standard, the teachings of this movement are standard, coming down from the original source, Kṛṣṇa, the original speaker. So it is very scientific. It's not manufactured. Today's science... Just like psychoanalysis, so many things, they are created recently. And so there are so many experiments and theories changing every day. But Kṛṣṇa consciousness is different in that it is the standard science for understanding the self. It's been practiced for hundreds, thousands, thousands years. And it has been proved successful by the ācāryas or the saintly teachers. So the same thing which was practiced many, many hundreds and thousands of years ago is being practiced today, and the same result is being achieved. This is the difference between Kṛṣṇa consciousness and..., Kṛṣṇa conscious science, spiritual science, and material science. The spiritual science requires no speculation or experimentation. But one has to accept it from the right, the authorized source.

Dr. Hauser: Yes. And it was that point I was taking up here, that for some people, accepting things...

Haṁsadūta: Everyone has to accept some, somebody. They either accept you or their mother, their father, somebody. At every moment, some, someone has to be accepted as authority for something. So what is the best authority? This should be the question. If I have to accept some authority, either here or there, then which is the best authority? This should be the point. Are you the best authority or this man or this man or this man...? Or who should be the best authority? The best authority is that authority which is perfect. That is God. God is perfect. So this is our, our, this is the foundation of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that God, He is perfect. Whatever He gives as instruction, that should be accepted. But if we don't agree to that, then we have to take instruction from someone else. And that is bound to be imperfect. Isn't it? Because we are working with imperfect senses, seeing, hearing. So whatever our conclusions may be, they're going to imperfect.

Prabhupāda: Because it has began from imperfect. Therefore conclusion must be imperfect.

Dr. Hauser: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But if we begin from the perfect, the conclusion will be perfect. What are the four defects? Explain.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Guest (1): Pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇam idam (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation).

Prabhupāda: Yes. He's associating with Kṛṣṇa. And unless one is confidential devotee of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa does not speak with him. But when he becomes perfect, confidential servitor, Kṛṣṇa speaks with him, "Do like this, do like that," and he'll do that. And therefore in his action, you won't find any fault. (break) If somebody perfect instructs him, "Do like this," then my action is not imperfect. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). If I say, "Yes, you give up everything. Just surrender to Kṛṣṇa," then I am perfect. And if I say, "So 'ham. I am Kṛṣṇa," then you are imperfect. Is that...? (break) "...the same. I am the Lord. I am the Supreme." They're all imperfect. Vimukta-māninaḥ. They have been described as rascals. They are strongly thinking that they are liberated. They're rascals. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ (SB 10.2.32). They are talking like nonsense because their intelligence is not..., it is purified. He's therefore wrongly thinking that "I am the Supreme Lord. I am moving the sun." These rascals, they meditate, "I am moving the sun, I am moving the moon. I am this, I am that." This is their meditation. So 'ham. So they are rascals. And how you can become the Supreme? As soon as you have got a toothache, you have to go to the doctor. And he was thinking he was supreme, nonsense. Rascal. (break) ...bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa. These are Māyāvādīs, those who are after, "I am the Supreme." They are Māyāvādīs. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "Anyone who hears the philosophy of Māyāvāda, he is doomed. He is gone." (break) ...teaching, "Why you are seeking after God?" Just like Vivekananda taught, "Oh, why you are seeking after God? Don't you see so many gods are on the street? They are hungry. They are lame. They are daridra-nārāyaṇa. Why don't you worship them?" This is Māyāvādī. So if we take Vivekananda's version, and be engaged in the service of the daridra-nārāyaṇa, then I am misled. (break) ...preaching this daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā for hundreds of years, at least one hundred years, but still, there are daridras. Even in the city like Bombay, still. Fifty years ago, I came. I saw there are the residents of the footpath, having a small... Eh?

Guest (1): The pipe.

Prabhupāda: And still I find. When the rice is selling at eight rupees kilo, and when the rice was selling three rupees a mound, at that time also they were on the footpath, resident, and now also.

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You cannot ever overcome, because you are all weak. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā (BG 7.14). Unless you are very strong, māyā is very, very stronger than you. How you can avoid it? Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā, mām eva ye prapadyante. Only one is very, very strong in capturing the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, he can avoid. Otherwise it is not possible. All these Villa Parle, Juhu gentlemen, they are daily coming to their city business. And is it very difficult for us?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They have an office, though, in the city where they come to.

Prabhupāda: Office means their business is office. But your business is begging. Your business is not office. Your business is not... They have to direct so many things from there. That we can do. Besides that... Anyway, even they have got office, they come from in Bombay, Calcutta, even from hundred miles away. So if there is no such program, Deity worship, regulative principles, then it will be a joint mess. Hotel. Transcendental hotel. And transcendental fraud. This will go on. The business will be transcendental fraud, and life will be transcendental hotel. (Break) ...twenty, twenty-five. So these women devotees, they are given cāpāṭis by the bābājīs. Kṣurasya dhārā. Actually it is like that. A sharpened razor, A little inattention, immediately blood. Kṣurasya dhārā niśitā duratyayā durgaṁ pathas tat kavayo vadanti (?). That is the risk. Nowadays modern civilization, as we are accepting, there is jeep, there is telephone, everything is there. One can conduct his activities from anywhere.

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But it didn't work last time. They stopped their preaching. The last time everyone moved to Juhu, they completely lost contact with all the life members in the city because they found it very difficult to continuously go back and forth.

Prabhupāda: So keep it just like a temple. Not that...

Acyutānanda: Nepeansea Road downtown, it should be kept like a temple?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The temple routine work must go there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But no Deity.

Prabhupāda: Deity, there is picture. That's all right. Do you think that picture is not Deity?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: There are eight kinds of Deity. Picture is also Deity. Even the thinking of Kṛṣṇa within the mind, that is also Deity. But we are not so expert that within the mind we can worship the Deity. Just like yesterday I gave you the example, the brāhmaṇa. He was worshiping Deity within the mind. There was no temple, no Deity. But within the mind, everything he was doing. And he got salvation. So that depends on particular person, how to worship Deity. So far we are gross men. So we must have Deity worship. Otherwise you can worship Deity anywhere, sit down and think, just like this brāhmaṇa was thinking. Because Kṛṣṇa is available in any way, because He is everything. But the method must be there. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano (BG 7.4). So mind is also another material thing. So if you think of Kṛṣṇa's form within the body, mind, it is as good as you worship the Deity in the temples made of brass or wood or stone. Because both of them are Kṛṣṇa's energies. So whatever possible, He can accept. And that is Kṛṣṇa. Because Kṛṣṇa's energy. Therefore the energy is not different from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa can accept your service in any of these material. So-called material. Actually there is no material things. Material things means the desire for sense gratification. That is material.

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not play it. Bring that record. On New York, Fifth Avenue, our saṅkīrtana party is going on.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They are carrying the gramophone now.

Prabhupāda: And in London, Oxford Street, the most crowded street, just like our Bombay, Harley Road... So in the big, big cities they are now chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, dancing. People are enjoying. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). You can play this record at home and dance in tune and enjoy.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They are bringing it. This is the record, Every Town and Village. They are bringing the machine.

Prabhupāda: We are arrested by the police sometimes. Sometimes there are big cases against us. In Ireland. Ireland?

Pradyumna: Ireland, Scotland, in Edinburgh, too.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) These impediments are always there, even in Caitanya Mahāprabhu's time. The Kazi, the Mohammedan magistrate, he wanted to stop. (pause) Kṛṣṇa tvadīya pada-paṅkaja-pañjarāntam (MM 33). So you are devotee of Rādhārāṇī. Eh? Yes, that is good. Through Rādhārāṇī, one should approach Kṛṣṇa. And therefore Vṛndāvana, they, everyone says, "Jaya Rādhe," first of all glorifying Rādhārāṇī. We have got many records. This is one of them, kīrtana. (record starts playing) (break) (sounds of people leaving and Śrīla Prabhupāda saying Hare Kṛṣṇa to individual people) (Hindi) (break)

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So there is great difference between our... We worship Lord Kṛṣṇa.

Lady: Juhu. May people might (indistinct), you are having (indistinct), it is very difficult for people to go there.

Prabhupāda: In Juhu there are many men. Juhu people are not coming here. Similarly, these people will not go there. But at Juhu there are many men. So in Bombay, in any part of Bombay, itself a big city, any part of Bombay. But where we are getting such big land in the city? That is 20,000 square yards. And on the Juhu Beach. For this facility, yes. And a new town is growing here. You have been in Juhu?

Banker: I used to live there. Beach house.

Gargamuni: That big white house, that six story high building right on the beach, he used to live there.

Prabhupāda: How do you like that place?

Banker: Very much. Quiet, peaceful. After a day of work in the bank it's a very nice place to retreat to.

Prabhupāda: Now, they were coming from Juhu to bank. So where is the difficulty? Such responsible officer, bank manager, they are coming and going, and you sannyāsīs cannot come and go? He has got responsible duties, he has to arrive in the office exactly in time.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1973, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: There will not be any scarcity of food. (indistinct)

Guest: Yes, if we work hard.

Prabhupāda: Not work hard, everyone should produce. But who's producing. Suppose in Delhi, such a big city. What is the population?

Guest: Yes.

Prabhupāda: What is the population? Tell me.

Guest: About ah, four million.

Prabhupāda: Four million. And what is the population of Bombay?

Guest: About six and a half million, seven million.

Prabhupāda: Seven million. And what is Calcutta?

Guest: About seven and a half million.

Prabhupāda: And we say you take.... And what is the population of India?

Guest: Five ah, nearly six hundred million now.

Prabhupāda: Six hundred million.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1973, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: And we say you take.... And what is the population of India?

Guest: Five ah, nearly six hundred million now.

Prabhupāda: Six hundred million.

Guest: Five hundred fifty, six hundred million.

Prabhupāda: So if you take all these city population it will come to three hundred million. They are doing nothing for producing.

Guest: No, they are producing cotton, textiles.

Prabhupāda: That's alright, but you cannot eat (indistinct).

Lady Guest: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: You can produce bolt and nut but you cannot eat. So this is going on. Formerly everyone was in village. Everyone was interested to produce food. Everyone had got land. Even the brāhmaṇas they were not working. The śūdras would work and they produce half and half. Government would tax only 25%.

Guest: Hm.

Prabhupāda: That would cover everything—shelters, income tax, this tax, that tax, also. And if you not produced anything there was no tax. This was the system, everyone was happy. Here one side there is no production, there is scarcity. Another side government taxes 89, 95%.

Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Fishing?

Karandhara: Fly casting. (pause) (break)

Citraka: ...open a temple in Greece?

Prabhupāda: I would like to open temples in every village, every city, what to speak of Greece. But we haven't got sufficient men.

Karandhara: This boy is from Greece.

Citraka: I will translate the books later.

Prabhupāda: Oh, then you can open. But alone... You can be assisted with some of our men. That's nice proposal. We want to open in every city, every village, village to village. So go this way or around the...?

Karandhara: This isn't too bad. We can go this way. It's not too wet.

Citraka: Sometimes you have said that the Greek mythology comes from the Purāṇas.

Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly. In Greece I think some people know of our movement. Because in the airport as soon as some young men saw us, they chanted "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" Yes. Maybe they are Europeans, but I had practical experience. (break) which..., that Park Avenue?

Bali Mardana: Wednesday they are having a meeting. Perhaps on Wednesday.

Prabhupāda: Wednesday. So you have to attend? No.

Morning Walk -- December 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But scientifically it can be proved that there is a mistake.

Prabhupāda: Then that is your mistake. In the laws of nature there is no mistake. There is no mistake. Your mistake. Just like in the railway carriage there is first-class, second-class, third-class. So you have purchased third-class ticket. By mistake, you can go to the first-class and just give him, but you will not be allowed to stay there. So it is your mistake. But these first-class, second-class, third..., that is not a mistake. That is arrangement. Similarly, these varieties... God is so clever that He knows that so many mistakes can be done, and so many varieties are there. As you commit mistake, you enter... "You come here. It is ready." And it is very exact mathematically calculated. Because the nature is working in three modes, so you mix up these three modes, it becomes three into three equal nine, and again you multiply nine into nine, equal to eighty-one. Again eighty-one into eighty-one. So many varieties come. Therefore generally it is taken, 84 million varieties. 8, 400,000. That is already there. Just like government creates a prison house. Although the city is not constructed, but they construct a prison house. Why? The government knows that "There are so many rascals. They will be criminals, they must come here." So it is not government mistakes. Your mistake. You become criminal and come here. It is your mistake. Why should you be criminal? That is your mistake.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Developed consciousness, developed consciousness.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But somebody asks, "How do I know a bird is not more highly advanced than a human being?"

Prabhupāda: How you can ask?

Devotee (2): By example.

Prabhupāda: That is... Human being has created the city. The bird cannot.

Devotee (2): Birds also create cities.

Prabhupāda: No, their cities, their own way, not like this. Human being has constructed the skyscraper building. A bird cannot. In that sense you are advanced. That sense you are advanced.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So they say this is just our own mental concoction.

Prabhupāda: They can repair their nest with some stick, and that's all. That much they can do. But you can big, big beams, you can... That is the difference.

Yaśomatīnandana: Because even the most powerful birds we can control.

Prabhupāda: But, but there is no benefit. You are misusing your intelligence by skyscraper building, and they're using their intelligence to make a nest; but the benefit derived is equal. Therefore, in that sense you are less intelligence.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Umāpati: There have been several people here in Los Angeles...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Umāpati: ...that have wanted to meet you. A councilman, a councilman here in Los Angeles would like to meet you, a city councilman.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Oh, yes. He's welcome.

Umāpati: So, and, and um, also a Professor Scharfe at the UCLA, he's...

Prabhupāda: Professor?

Umāpati: Professor Scharfe. He's a Sanskrit scholar of the Vedic, Vedic...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Scharfer?

Umāpati: Scharfe. Scharfe.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's not Scharfer?

Devotee: Scharfe, spelled S-c-h-a-r-f-e.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, I met him.

Umāpati: Yes. He would like very much to meet with you.

Prabhupāda: All right. Make appointment. What, what is his purpose to meet me?

Umāpati: Well, Professor Scharfe is interested in your writings, and I don't know the councilman's motives. He just sent word to me that he would like to meet with you.

Prabhupāda: We welcome any respectable gentleman. We have to go this way?

Karandhara: Uh, yeah, Prabhupāda, we can go this way, through here. (break)

Hṛdayānanda: The scientists will never give up.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: If you can, of course.

Śrutakīrti: It wouldn't hurt.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...this time He used to take His saṅkīrtana party for strolling all over the city.

udilo aruṇa pūraba-bhāge
dwija-maṇi gorā amani jāge
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa...

Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda, we are helpless without you.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Hṛdayānanda: We are helpless without you.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes. Today sky is clear.

Umāpati: With this energy crisis now, it'll be even clearer.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Umāpati: With this energy crisis it'll be even more clear. (break) ...these people, these politicians, this power that we have in our government would be..., come to an end.

Prabhupāda: It has already come to an end. There is no government anywhere, simply chaos.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...daiva-varṇāśrama. My Guru Mahārāja wanted this that there be regular varṇāśrama, qualified. It is not the monopoly of India that brāhmaṇas are born there. No. No, you are all brāhmaṇas. Otherwise how can I allow you to worship Deity? Hmm. What is that?

Satsvarūpa: If I go to some city and hold a program and advertise but only, say, four or five people come and yet they're interested, very interested-should that be considered successful or unsuccessful?

Prabhupāda: It is successful. If one man comes to hear, that is successful. But we have to see that, after spending so much money...

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: ...better to call a small meeting of the learned scholars and talk with them about our philosophy because even if you advertise common man is not interested. They think, "Oh, what is this?" Even the so-called higher circles. The best thing is to collect some... Just like ordinary meeting it is done. That is better. Why should you spend unnecessarily on advertising. (end)

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Govardhana: You are just like the reservoir of mercy, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: No mercy reservoir is Kṛṣṇa, but we are servant of Kṛṣṇa. We have to abide by his orders. That's all. Real mercy is Kṛṣṇa's. (break)

Prajāpati: ...in the Bible, there's a story of how some cities named Sodom and Gomorraḥ became so sinful that the Lord wanted to destroy those cities and everyone in them. Will this be happening again sometime, cities become so sinful, they will be just destroyed?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Destruction means sinful. If you become sinful, your body will be destroyed. You'll die out of some disease. Sinful means destruction.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Self-destruction.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Self-destruction.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate... (BG 8.19) (break) ...if somebody dies out of Kṛṣṇa's anger, he also goes to Vaikuṇṭha.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Topless, bottomless. That is going on. It is a regular policy that girls may remain unmarried, and the drunkards and the meat-eaters may take advantage of the prostitution. This is the policy. They have no sympathy. So many hundreds and thousands of innocent girls, they're like children. And they're exposed to prostitution. They have no shelter. Now these girls who are with us, they're feeling some shelter, you see? That we are giving some shelter. Everything should be reformed, political, social, and be, you American nation—you're favored nation, that I am always speaking; you should utilize the favor of God and be yourself perfect—and be leader of the whole world. Anyone who is not believer in God, he should be punished. Because he's animal. He is animal, and he is posing himself as human being. Cheater. Human life is meant for tapasya, for understanding God. That is human life. This dog's life, cat's life, this is not human life. If you become a very powerful tiger, is that human life? They're thinking like that. "If I become as strong as a tiger, then there we are perfect nation." Then what is the use of tiger? It is simply kill only. What other intelligence he has got? So in your country there are so many things to be done. I give you the idea, now you take the leaders. (break) Rascal. Sentimental. Be yourself leader. (break) ...you give up all this material advancement. But there must be Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise it is waste of time. Live very comfortably, gentlemanly. Kṛṣṇa never says that "You live like wretched urchins." Kṛṣṇa never says that. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya yogo bhavati duḥkha-hā. And this was practically introduced by my Guru Mahārāja, that living in palatial building and riding on first-class cars, one can become the best devotee. Not that one has to live underneath a tree, imitating Rūpa Gosvāmī. That is not possible in this age. That is the continuation of my Guru Mahārāja, that if one is sincere he can remain a first-class devotee even in this material opulence. And if he would not have introduced, then it was not possible to come here and preach this gospel. That because the principle was to live underneath a tree, go to Vṛndāvana, and have loincloth, just like the bābājīs are imitating. No. Even in full material opulence we can become a perfect devotee, provided you follow the principles. It doesn't matter. Gṛhe vā... It was sung by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura long ago. Gṛhe vā banete ṭhāke. Either you live in the forest or in the city, opulent city, the business is gaurāṅga bole rākhe: always thinking of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Narottama māge tarsan.(?) Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, "I want their association, who is a devotee of Lord Gaurāṅga." It doesn't matter whether he lives in the forest or in the opulent city. It doesn't matter. He must be devotee. (break) Household life or in city life we should not be extravagant, unnecessarily eating, unnecessarily enjoying. No, that is not the... One man's food, another man's poison. We must know this philosophy. (break) ...and even we..., my health is not always going on nicely. Still, why I am trying? That is my ambition. I want to begin one revolution. Their godless civilization..., against godless civilization. That is my ambition. The America will be the best person to be educated in this line and to lead, to become the leaders. They're already leader, but they must be real leader now, so that the whole world may be happy. That I can give direction. If the topmost American gentlemen come to me, I can give them direction how they can become the world leader. Actual leader. Actual leader, not bogus leader. Because God has favored them, so many things. And this movement has been started from America. I started this movement from New York. So it should be taken very seriously by the government.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No. Reality, because they do not know. They have been always been misguided by rascals. Therefore they cannot think of that there can be perfection. This is called skepticism. Because everyone is faulty, therefore there is no knowledge. This is skeptism. But real knowledge is that as I see this man is intelligent that man, that man is intelligent than that man, therefore there is an ideal intelligent man which we could not find. And that is God. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1).

Karandhara: Just like when they go and excavate a city under the ground, an old city, they see that so many things were built, and they say, "Oh, these people were very intelligent." Although they never saw the person, they saw the civilization in the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. By symptoms, by symptoms they can understand.

Karandhara: So they say, "Well, we cannot see God." But they could not see the people in those past days either.

Prabhupāda: No. You cannot see the government, but when things are going nicely, you must accept, there is government. That is... When things are going on very nicely, regularly, the sun is rising regularly, the moon is rising regularly, the seasons are changing and the waves are flowing, everything, then you have to accept that there is government. And as we have got experience here in this material world... Government is impersonal, but that at the end there is a president. Similarly, the whole government, the complete government, may be impersonal in the beginning, but at the end there is a person, that Supreme Person, Bhagavān. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). Yes. Paramātmā is representative of God. Just like the president has got so many representative governors, similarly, Paramātmā is the localized representative of God, and God is person, and the whole government is impersonal. This is the conception. When we say "government," you cannot localize that "Who is that person, government?" That is impersonal. But when we find governor, then localized persons. And then above them, all of them, when there is president, he is supreme person. This is our practical example. Similarly, nature is working impersonally, but there are officers. They are called demigods. And above them all there is the Supreme Lord. He is Bhagavān. And this idea wherefrom has come? The president, the governors, and the government. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). It has come from there. Because of the origin, the same thing is there.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 23, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. They are mad. Still, we have to do that. Madmen does not, he doesn't think that "I require anyone's help." But still, the father, mother, guardian, government, gives him help. We are not dependent on their decision; we are dependent on Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, para-duḥkha-duḥkhī: Vaiṣṇava is unhappy seeing others unhappy. Otherwise, they have no unhappiness. They are unhappy seeing that "This rascal is unnecessarily suffering." That is unhappiness of Vaiṣṇava. Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa... Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "I have no, any problem, but I'm simply thinking of these rascals, that for some temporary happiness they make so gorgeous arrangement, and forgotten their real business." Just like all these... What is this city? At any moment, it will be finished, but... Just like they're flying, fleeing some other place, "America will be destroyed." So why they have spoiled so much energy? They do not know where to apply the energy for real benefit. Mūḍha. Therefore they have been called as mūḍha, duṣkṛtina, duṣkṛtina: showing very good merit for this big, big building, big, big road... Kṛti, kṛti means meritorious. But duṣkṛti. Duṣkṛti means for useless purpose, real purpose missing. They have no information of the soul within the body; simply they are engaged in the bodily activities. The soul is neglected.

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: These are very old questions. These are not very intelligent questions. God is not creating. God is giving you chance. The conditioned souls who are not with Kṛṣṇa, they wanted to enjoy this material world. Therefore God is giving them chance. "All right enjoy (indistinct)," and giving instruction also that you enjoy in this way, so that you may come back again. Just like a father. Children wants to play in the (indistinct). "All right, you play." Then, as soon as he asks, "Please come back. (indistinct), they come back. Similarly this material world, we wanted to enjoy, so Kṛṣṇa has given us freedom, "All right enjoy". And now Kṛṣṇa gives instruction that "now you give up all this (indistinct) come back, then you (indistinct)." He created for you. Same example I always give. Just like the government, when there is formation of the city, jail construction is also there. You cannot say that, "Why government is creating, it is unnecessary, it's premature, construction of jail work(?). But the government knows that there are some criminals who has to be put into the jail. Therefore the jail created. So because there are criminals, therefore government creates. Similarly, there are many conditioned souls who, instead of serving Kṛṣṇa, they want to enjoy. "All right, for you, you enjoy to your fullest extent." And when he is tired of enjoying, enjoying, enjoying. Then Kṛṣṇa says that, "If you give up all this nonsense, just surrender to Me, you will be accepted." But the demons will never surrender to Kṛṣṇa. They say that this material world is false and Brahman is truth, but they do not know how to act as Brahman. Brahman means to stop. That is nirviśeṣavāda and śūnyavāda, to become void. But you cannot become void. If I say "Mr. such and such, you sit down here, try to become void," how long you shall do that, void?

Guest (1): No, that's impossible.

Morning Walk -- March 3, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So that signboard... (break) Yes.

Nitāi: What's the story behind the rediscovery of Māyāpur?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Nitāi: Is there some story related to the way in which Māyāpur was found by Jagannātha dāsa Bābājī?

Prabhupāda: The Ganges is going sometimes that side, then this side. So it was under the impression that original Caitanya Mahāprabhu's birthsite is now under water. Or there were many theories and suggestions. Later on, Jagannātha dāsa Bābājī said that "Here is the..." Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Nitāi: In previous days, it was a very big city.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Indian: Ācchā. (end)

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Another diversion of attention so that they can exploit public money in that way. And the public is also fooled that they believe all this nonsense.

Viṣṇujana: In the United States, Prabhupāda, the rocks that they brought back from the moon are being displayed in all the different cities. They have little small pieces of the rocks from the moon. And people stand in long lines...

Prabhupāda: Just see...

Viṣṇujana: ...to come and see these little pieces of rock.

Prabhupāda: ...how much rascal you are.

Viṣṇujana: And they have guards all around the little rocks.

Prabhupāda: Gods?

Viṣṇujana: With guns, with guns.

Prabhupāda: Oh, guards.

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: You cannot eat machine. You produce. You produce rice, wheat in the machine. What you have done? You have simply misled the people that instead of tilling the ground, they have come to machine, and there is no food.

Siddha-svarūpānanda: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: You have done this. You have, on the false plea that "We'll give you five hundred rupees salary. You come in the city and be engaged." Oh, he saw, "Oh, I am simply producing my food. If I get five hundred rupees, then I'll go to cinema, I'll have a good dress." Now there is no food even. You have done this. That's all. What is the benefit of this machine. Machine benefit is that we were purchasing, when there was no so much machine, in our childhood, three rupees, four annas per mound, first-class rice. Now we are purchasing one Kg.

Devotee: Ten rupees Kg. For one rupee (indistinct) first-class wheat.

Prabhupāda: Just see. So if one is rascal, they will be misled by this. Otherwise, any sane man will not accept. They say that, "We have done so much." What you have done? You have done this. At least in India, the effect of machine and factories: that there is no rice, no food.

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That's it. That's it, that you cannot get. Oh, you have done so much. But India is not meant for machine. These rascals, they do not know. India is, India's culture is plain living, high thinking. You require some food. Produce food, and take it, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. But they'll not accept, "Oh, this is primitive. Nowadays we have got... We must have the motor car, motor tire."

Devotee: Farmer sees that a job of three hundred rupees and runs away to city. He will not work in the field. Then there will be no food.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they require. They require. The cow is being killed, and that's all. That is sufficient food for them." And let the farmers work for me, for bolts and nuts and motor tire. We make huge profit." You see. You are making profit, but other...

Devotee: What is the use of that profit, Prabhupāda Mahārāja, when don't get even for eating, no clothing, no eating? Only profit... What profit will be beneficial?

Prabhupāda: No, but they don't care for others. But they're having wine and women with their black market money. That's all. They're satisfied. They do not know... (end)

Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are against religion. But actually, if we show that we are producing, we are managing, we are educating, then we can counteract the communist tendency. But they are seeing that, that escaping. They say, "They escape responsibility of worldly life and they're indulging in some religious..." That is the tendency. All... Everywhere the government is complaining like that. Therefore they do not want to increase the number of temples, increase the number of devotees. They do not want. Because they say, "These are a class of idle men. They cannot do anything, and they take to this religious life." That is the tendency. They are feeling like that. But if you show that you are actually doing something ideal, then they will appreciate. Make a small unit of community and show ideal life, not idle life. Ideal life. Then this mis... That... Now in Bombay, they have refused. Because they are under the impression that "They, these Europeans have come here under some sentiment, and what is the use?" They have taken some plea and rejected our... (break) ...is there. As we are making counterpropaganda against māyā, the māyā is also very strong. She will also make propaganda against you, very strong. So unless you become very sincere devotee, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14), then it will not be possible to conquer over māyā. You'll be succumbed. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...taranti te, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. In India the, the brāhmaṇa class, they say, "Oh, I am born in brāhmaṇa family. Why shall I do this work?" You see. Therefore the whole society has gone to hell. In your country still, they accept any kind of work. It doesn't matter. And here, in India, if he happens to be a brāhmaṇa, he'll not take any kind of work. Means... Just like plowing. He'll not agree. Therefore so much land. The kṣatriya is thinking, "I am kṣatriya." The brāhmaṇa is thinking, "I am brāhmaṇa." And the land is lying fallow. There is no production. He will go to the office and fight with the pen as a kṣatriya. And instead of studying Vedas, he'll study the rules and regulations given by the office. But he'll not come to plow. Therefore this scarcity of food. He'll go to a mill to work as ordinary laborer. (Hindi) He'll not come. So much land we see lying unutilized. And they're crying for grain. Why? The same example. I was writing that in New York City, the whole city is full of dirty things, garbage, for want of cleaners, and you go to the Central Park, you'll find so many hippies are lying down idle.

Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Hṛdayānanda: And all the devotees are protected.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone should be engaged. And if everyone is engaged, he'll never fall sick. Yes. (break) ...the farmers, their son, they're giving up the farming business.

Haṁsadūta: Going to the city.

Prabhupāda: Going to the city. In your country also?

Ātreya-ṛṣi: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Or you have nothing to do with farming.

Ātreya-ṛṣi: Excuse me?

Prabhupāda: Your country, there is nothing to do with farming. You have got petrol.

Ātreya-ṛṣi: No. No there is a lot of good land, but they're not developing it.

Devotee: Just selling petrol.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, if they can get money underground, "Why shall I work?" (end)

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Therefore sleeping is my only business. Sleeping means for the weak. And for the strong, perspiration. This is the sign. When a man sleeps too much, he's weak in his health. And the strong man will perspire. These are very... Balera ghāma, and the durbalera ghuma. Ghāma and ghuma. Ghuma means sleeping, and ghāma means perspiration. (break) ...principle. And human beings means trained up under principle. That is the difference between animal. The animals, they cannot take up any training. But the human being, this human form of body is meant for taking training. So if they are not properly trained up, they remain animals and the whole society in chaos and confusion. That's all. (break) ...moment, the human society's so degraded that even we are walking, this is also risky. This is also... Gradually, it is becoming. Just like in our New York... That Berkeley? Berkeley? No. Brooklyn. It is difficult to walk due to the Negroes. They immediately: "Whatever you have got, give me." There are so many incidents. In such city as New York there is always danger like that. If somebody kills you, nobody will take care of you. The human society has become... And in India still, they are not so degraded. You see. Even at night you can safely walk on the street. But in Europe, America, you cannot with confidence walk alone in the big, big streets. So human being has become so degraded. Less than animals. They can attack you. Just like in the forest any ferocious animal can attack you at any minute. The whole big, big cities have become like that. (break) ...example that they have started that United Nations. What they have done actually? United Nations. Eh?

Hṛdayānanda: Nothing.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. The starting is already there.

Viṣṇujana: They even have a court system now. They started it when I was there last time. They have so many members that sometimes someone may commit some offense or something. They even have a judicial type of system where he comes before a board of members, older members.

Prabhupāda: Yes. All fights should be decided by the board. That's nice. And it will be accepted even by the court. Here, in India, there is such system. A board of five, ten men in the village, if there is some fight between two parties, whatever the board will decide that will be accepted in the court. Pañcāyeta. It is called pañcāyeta system. (break) You join. There will be no scarcity. This will engage people. Some are, some of them will be engaged to produce food. Where is the question of scarcity? There is food, there is milk. Eat and drink and be human beings.

Viṣṇujana: When we first go to open a temple in a city we get an apartment or a storefront. But then, when more and more people come, then we should get land and cows and everything and...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Viṣṇujana: ...and turn it into a society.

Hṛdayānanda: Ah, that's wonderful.

Satsvarūpa: Many times our devotees get cheated in business dealings by inexperience. So should they learn from...

Prabhupāda: How to cheat others. (laughter)

Satsvarūpa: No, not how to cheat, but from experienced devotees how to not be cheated?

Prabhupāda: Why should you go to a person who cheats you? (end)

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Madhudviṣa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) What these communists can do? We can do better than them. We can kill many communists like that. (laughter) Then it will be counteraction of communist movement. And you think like that. "Why you are sitting idly, no employment? Come on to the field! Take this plow! Take this bull. Go on working. Why you are sitting idly?" This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Nobody should be allowed to sit down and sleep. They must find out some employment, either work as brāhmaṇa or as a kṣatriya or as a vaiśya. Why there should be unemployment? The same example. Just like I am, this body is working. The leg is working, hand is working, brain is working, belly is working. Why there should be unemployment? You just stop this unemployment, you will see the whole world is peaceful. There is no complaint. And they'll very happily chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hm? Nobody's working in this field. They're all drawn to the cities to work in the factory. Condemned civilization. That communist emblem, what is that?

Devotees: Hammer and sickle.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is good.

Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Devotee (2): Baba Rāma Dāsa.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Baba Rāma. (Hindi) (break)

Guest: ...that's the last time I saw you. From time to time I see Baba Rāma.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now we have got one hundred and two branches. Mexico City, we have got. I have been there. I forget the name of the street. Very nice center. Indian standard. Mexico City building almost Indian standard.

Guest: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And people are also almost Indian standard.

Guest: Well, Mexico and India are exactly same, opposite side of the world, like this.

Prabhupāda: Anti-point.

Guest: Yes. And, uh, some, there's a few similarities in the religion, I think, because they have a fearful goddess like Mahā-kālī.

Prabhupāda: Worship Mahā-kālī?

Guest: Like Mahā-kālī, yes, very fearful, you know. She's, er, her head comes from two serpent's heads.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Guest: You know, two serpent's heads are together like this, making her face, and then she wears a skirt of skulls.

Prabhupāda: Oh, skulls.

Guest: Skulls.

Prabhupāda: They're practicing Mahā-kālī.

Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Guest: Name is Papinque(?).

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Guest: And she's supposed to represent the earth.

Prabhupāda: Your parents live in Mexico City?

Guest: No, not Mexico City. (indistinct) I have relatives in Mexico City. When I was there this summer I went to visit one other Hindu establishment that comes down from Śaṅkarācārya.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Guest: On the street (indistinct). But I didn't know you had a branch in Mexico City at the time.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Guest: They're also vegetarians now.

Prabhupāda: Acchā? In Mexico they are vegetarians?

Guest: Well, no. Most Mexicans are not vegetarians, but this, these people who belong to Śaṅkarācārya sampradāya are vegetarians.

Guru Dāsa: Where's the name "Maya" civilization come from?

Guest: I think it's probably just a coincidence that the name is Maya, more than, you know.... (break)

Guest: How's your health?

Prabhupāda: Health is not very good. I am not (indistinct).

Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Are there any flowers there? There are so many flowerstall.

Guest: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And there in Mexico, in Mexico where I saw "Mahātmā Gandhi (Road?)."

Devotee: That was in Mexico.

Guru dāsa: In Mexico City they have many streets named after famous men.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Guru Dāsa: Yeah. Mexico City. Mahātmā Gandhi.

Prabhupāda: There in the city. I saw Mahātmā Gandhi Street.

Guest: Hm, yeah. I can't remember. Maybe. There's.... (break).

Prabhupāda: Just by the side of a flower stand. I was surprised, Mahātmā Gandhi Road. (break)

Guest: From that illness you had when you came to India...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 18, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say... I spoke with one hotel man, and he says the price of petrol is now three rupees, twenty-five paise per liter.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Petrol now costs three rupees twenty-five per liter. That means about three or four times what it was previously. So people are not so much inclined; since they have their business in the city, if they stay in Juhu...

Prabhupāda: That is one of the reasons.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...they have to go all the way from Juhu into the city. It costs twenty-five rupees by taxi.

Guru dāsa: This is happening all over the world to the hotel business.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guru dāsa: All over the world. All over the world.

Prabhupāda: Hotel business declining?

Guru dāsa: All over. Because of the petrol shortage.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But it's not permanent.

Guru dāsa: They'll have to do something, because...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not permanent. The thing is that our life, if we put up a hotel, Prabhupāda, all of our life members, at least, I know, in fact, will use the hotel. Plus many foreigners will still use. Because we are not, we are not... Our hotel will not simply be for the business foreigners.

Prabhupāda: It is for spiritual culture.

Morning Walk -- March 18, 1974, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Spiritual culture. Right. So for that purpose it makes no difference the center of the city or elsewhere.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...dependent any condition. We are independent. And you are criticizing. Permit has not been obtained. And if you think that there is no possibility of temple being sanctioned, then we start hotel. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: All right, that is already there. But if the sanction is not there, what we will do? Keep the land vacant? (break) That I am trying to get sanction, "Is it all right." If you don't, then hotel.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Otherwise build a hotel in the front and a temple in the rear.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And then it satisfies both. (break)

Prabhupāda: No. The same view. Eh?

Devotee: Yeah. (break)

Prabhupāda: One man's walking, Letchmore Heath.

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: This about propaganda and collecting the signatures in the lakhs will not only take a lot of energy of the devotees, but it will take more time also. It is, in the city of Bombay, it is not practicable. Because people are very busy, and around the clock everybody is counting every second which he spends and more so, it's difficult for people to devote time towards a sat-saṅga or to sign the letter that they had no objection and on the contrary, the action of the police commissioner is condemnable, undesirable. That will take a lot of time. And I think by writing them a letter, by of our reconsidering, we lose nothing.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Guest: By writing them a petition.

Prabhupāda: But if... It has no effect.

Guest: I don't say there is no effect. They can always reopen the case and reconsider because the two grounds there which they have mentioned. Number one, it is a nuisance. It is to be proved it's a nuisance. And always a practice...

Prabhupāda: Then, then you have to go, public should go. Those who are interested Hindus and Vaiṣṇavas, they should go to the court and prove in the court that it is not nuisance, essential.

Guest: No, they are three things. Number one is a nuisance. Now, the nuisance is always to be proved. Really, merely by saying, two people or five people that the bhajanas, and the kīrtanas are a nuisance because...

Prabhupāda: No, no. People now, people are drunkards, meat-eaters. They may, even they show, that is not authority. Authority is the śāstras.

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: What is that liberty? Therefore we have to educate public that the...

Guest: And another thing, regarding the propaganda, as you said rightfully, that that propaganda you have to make in the city and not in the Juhu area. Because here...

Prabhupāda: No, no, in the city. I have told you. A big, big hall.

Guest: Yes. A big halls or a pandal as we had held two years back.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Guest: I don't know how you have got the sanction.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes.

Guest: And there the people can come in the thousands and...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that I have already said.

Guest: ...on the neighboring stand, we should raise...

Prabhupāda: No, we request them that "You have taken so many ways, but your problems are not... Why not take this simple problem? Come with us, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and try to understand little, one śloka from Bhagavad-gītā. What is the...? You have no loss. But if you do it, we assure you the solution is there, all solution." Let us make this propaganda. Never mind, they do not sanction forever. It doesn't matter. But this propaganda wanted. What is that temple? Temple, there are many thousands.

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hyderabad, I do not know.

Yaśomatīnandana: Hyderabad is easier because the people are very much in favor.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And Vṛndāvana they gave it very late. After one year. Vṛndāvana. Because the government doesn't want further development of Vṛndāvana. They are neglecting the city in such a way that no gentleman will go there. The old city... Formerly, it was planned that "So many pilgrims come here. It should be nicely developed." But now they have given up. They have purposefully kept so nasty. You have seen the city?

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: So nasty that nobody will go there.

Guest: But should we now take the help from the political parties such as Shiv Sena?

Prabhupāda: That is very good.

Guest: Because they were the, only these people, who have stopped the police, the municipal commissioner from breaking the temple.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Parāyanaḥ. So they think, "Now my day's business is finished. Now I have eaten." And dakṣyaṁ kuṭumba-bharaṇam. And if one man can maintain a family of four, five, men, "Oh, he's Mahārāja Dakṣa." Mahārāja Dakṣa, you know? He was a great personality. He was performing yajñas. So this is Kali-yuga. Even they will not be able to maintain a wife, a few children. There is no shelter. I have seen in, all these things in western countries. They have no fixed up. Just like animals. The animal also loitering in the street or in the jungle; they are loitering in a great jungle, a great city. That's all.

Mr. Sar: Yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ (BG 7.3).

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore the Māyāvādīs cannot understand. Although they have come to the point of siddha, still they cannot understand. Yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). They are siddhas because they have understood that "I am not this body, ahaṁ brahmāsmi." This much they have understood. But still they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). Although they are trying...

Dr. Patel: Kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ.

Prabhupāda: Ah, tattvataḥ. They do not know. They say,"Kṛṣṇa is nirākāra." God is nirākāra. "I am as good as God." These theories, encumbrous theories... because they do not know. Yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3).

Dr. Patel: Kaścin māṁ vetti...

Mr. Sar: Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ...

Prabhupāda: So when one has come to this knowledge perfectly, that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul, ahaṁ brahmāsmi," that is brahma-bhūta stage. So, so after brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) stage, there are so many other things. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu (BG 18.54).

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, working, working. One is the worker, and another is the working ingredient, prakṛti.

Dr. Patel: Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat.

Prabhupāda: Jagat. Because...

Dr. Patel: That means the jagat is being held by that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because... This Bombay city is important because there are so many para-prakṛtis. If there was no living entity, who cares for the Bombay city?

Dr. Patel: So living entity is the para-prakṛti.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mr. Sar: Oh, living entity is the para-prakṛti.

Prabhupāda: Para. But prakṛti. But it is prakṛti. It is not puruṣa. Therefore this prakṛti is trying to become puruṣa here. That is illusion.

Dr. Patel: Or, or people calling prakṛti as puruṣa is Māyāvāda.

Prabhupāda: Eh? No, no. Prakṛti, jīva, yayedaṁ dhāryate ja... They are working... They are trying to enjoy. But... They are trying to be enjoyer. But that is not possible. Prakṛti is enjoyed. Just like strī-puruṣa. Puruṣa is enjoyer, and strī is enjoyed. Similarly, prakṛti is used for the satisfaction of the puruṣa. So if the jīva is prakṛti, then the puruṣa, puruṣa is the Supreme Person. Therefore his business is to satisfy the Supreme Purusa. This is bhakti-yoga.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: The whole material world is created by the propensity of the past actions of all... (break)

Prabhupāda: No, because God knows that "There are some fools and rascals who will desire like that. All right, if they want,..."

Dr. Patel: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like government knows. Suppose government is creating one city, but he's creating at the same time the jail house. Although there is no criminal at that time. But government knows there are some criminals who will fulfill this jail house. Because you are independent. Everyone is independent. Not absolute independent, but slight independent. So therefore you have the option either to serve God or serve māyā. That's all.

Dr. Patel: Serve God or serve Mammon.

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Dr. Patel: You can't serve two masters at the same time. (break)

Prabhupāda: That is not possible.

Dr. Patel: As a matter of fact... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...minute quantity. (break)

Guest (5): Why does God permit all these sins and offenses?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Dr. Patel: That is the eternal... That a madman created all this. (break)

Prabhupāda: Why do you not understand? God does not create. But you create. Just like you infect some disease. So you create your disease. Nobody's creating your disease. The simple thing, why don't you understand? If you... Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. Guṇa-saṅga. If you associate with the different qualities of this material nature, then you inf..., you become infected. You, if you associate with the tamo-guṇa, then you become lower class man, animals. That is your fault. It is not Kṛṣṇa's fault.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is in the Tenth Canto. Bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padam. Just like this ocean, if it becomes a small pit, then don't require a big ship to cross over. You just... Like this. It can be reduced. By Kṛṣṇa's desire, it can be done so. Just like at the present moment... Formerly, people used to go to London from India, from Bombay, at least, in fifteen days. Now it doesn't take even fifteen hours. It takes only nine hours. How it has been reduced? Because there is a process to reduce. Similarly, the supreme spiritual process is like that. It can be reduced to any quantity. Aṇi... This is called aṇimā-siddhi. It can be expanded also, to the greatest length. Mahimā-śakti. All-powerful means not that "I cannot do, I cannot, I can do this only." No, anything He can do. That is all powerful. Aṇimā, laghimā, mahimā. Just like all these big, big planets, they are floating in the sky. This is called laghimā, weightless, no weight. Those who are going to the moon planet, they are finding out weightlessness. How it has become weightless? Such a big, huge... Just this planet. With so many seas and mountains and cities and buildings. But it is floating. That's a fact. It is floating like a swab. How it is floating? You can say something nonsense, but the actual fact is this.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Indian man (1): They are now thinking about it. "Green revolution."

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. (break) So much land is lying vacant. They could utilize for food grains. No. They do not do it. (break) ...they have been withdrawn from the villages to work in the city, in the factories, and the lands are lying vacant. (break) Mahimā siddhi, to become heavier. Animā, laghimā, mahimā, prāpti, siddhi. There are eight kinds of yoga-siddhis. So those who are yoga siddha... Kṛṣṇa is Yogeśvara. He became so heavy. (break) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you very much. (break) ...aeroplane, it comes gradually, there is no crashing, but if it drops all of a sudden, then it is crashed. So this Tṛṇāvartāsura could not do that. He felt so heavy, fell down.

Girirāja: "He hit the stone ground and his limbs were smashed. His body became visible to all the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana. When the gopīs..." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the performances of all austerities. One can get the result of all austerities simply by serving the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Yaśodāmāyī is more powerful than Kṛṣṇa.

Indian Man (1): No, devotees are more powerful always.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) Just see. He liberated Nalakuvera, but He remained bound up by the rope of Yaśodāmāyī. (break) ...children. (break) ...some conjugal love.

Dr. Patel: Then he became eight years old. How could any gopī have conjugal love with a boy of seven or eight years?

Indian Man (1): Spiritual love.

Prabhupāda: That is not this love. That is a different love.

Dr. Patel: Conjugal love is mādhurya-rāsa.

Prabhupāda: Mādhurya-rāsa, yes... (break) eat along with my father. Unless I come, father will not...

Dr. Patel: But you were brought up in a big city, but I was brought up in a small village. Actually... (break)

Prabhupāda: The same. It doesn't matter whether it is in the village or town.

Dr. Patel: In the village we eat more. We used to buy... (end)

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Indian Man: Nepal too. Nepal.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. (break) So at the present moment Indians means non-Mohammedans. What he is, he does not know—but he is not Mohammedan. That's all. (laughter) Otherwise he has to be, go to Pakistan. Therefore he's non-Mohammedan. That's all. (break) In big, big cities you cannot safely walk. Here, India still, we lie down in the open air. That is not possible there. In Dallas, Dallas I wanted to lie down in the open air. "No, no, you cannot do that."

Dr. Patel: In that way England is better. England is far better.

Prabhupāda: No, no, England... England you cannot lie down on the open. No.

Dr. Patel: No, no, but on the countryside you can pitch a tent...

Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible. It is very cold.

Dr. Patel: No, no, not in... I mean in summer.

Prabhupāda: Even in summer it is not possible.

Girirāja: (reading:) "...cannot safely walk a city street or sleep without fear of burglars and the government has fallen far short of the actual standard of a legitimate administration." (break)

Prabhupāda: We are criticizing strongly in our paper. (break) ...command a position. If you manufacture government like that, it will never be capable.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So one must be intelligent enough to see God. Now, the bird I do not see, but I am hearing the sound. So one must know there is a nice bird. Because the varṇāśrama-dharma is lacking, nobody is being educated as a brāhmaṇa. They have lost all knowledge. Suppose in the society there is nobody educated as engineer; you don't find any engineers. So who will understand this? Unless one becomes brahminical qualified, they cannot understand. Therefore a class of men must be there, trained up as brāhmaṇa. Then the understanding of God consciousness will be there. Otherwise finished. So now this rascal civilization, they are simply creating śūdras. What they will understand? Simply śūdras. Factories and this, for technology. And because they are getting money, they are thinking, "Now we have got everything." On the money standard. Actually they have no knowledge. Just like we find a expert electrician and we pay him sufficiently, say hundred dollars, but does it mean that he has knowledge? He is expert in that śūdra's work, that's all. That does not mean, because he has got money, he has got all knowledge. But people accept, "Oh, he has money. His life is successful. He has got all knowledge." That's all. And if you go, if you speak about God, "Oh, these men are beggars. They have made a profession." That's all. So if the society does not accept the proposition of Kṛṣṇa, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13), they will suffer because the God consciousness will be lost. It is already lost. It may not be that everyone is God conscious, but a section... Just like it may not be that everybody is a physician, but a physician must remain there, must be there so that when one is difficulty by disease, the physician may help him. Similarly, if in the society the brāhmaṇa class and above, post-graduate of brāhmaṇa class, Vaiṣṇava, is not there, then the whole society will spoil . They will indulge in this meat-eating and drinking wine and illicit sex. Then it will be hell, and it has already become. Whole world is full of hellish person. In a civilized country like America you cannot walk alone in the street at night. India is still honest. Any part of India, you can walk. Because the more sinful. Is it not? In New York, especially in Brooklyn or anywhere, you cannot walk alone. Is it not? Yes. Your life is at risk. That Central Park, nobody can walk there. I have heard from many women that they rape. The negroes, they capture and rape. Life is unsafe even in a civilized city like New York. So what is this civilization? Our (name withheld) was... (break) ...Park. (Name withheld) our. Yes, she said.

Room Conversation -- April 26, 1974, Tirupati:

Prabhupāda: Oh. So your children are also... (laughs)

Indian man: I have got another boy in West Germany.

Prabhupāda: West Germany. Berlin?

Indian man: No, he is in Frankfurt.

Prabhupāda: Frankfurt. Oh, yes. Frankfurt is a big city. Sons are all married?

Indian man: The last son is not married. Two sons are married. Three daughters are... This daughter is to be married. We are trying, not able to get a suitable groom, you see. With your blessings I hope we will succeed.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Nowadays it is very difficult job to get married. (everyone laughs)

Wife: Suitable.

Prabhupāda: Well, suitable cannot be. There is no suitable.

Indian man: Difficult to find.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Formerly, as the girl is grown up, any boy.

Indian man: We used to marry at the age of ten, eleven. That is... Those days have been forty years back.

Prabhupāda: I was also married. My wife was eleven years old.

Room Conversation -- May 20, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...even those who are farmers (indistinct). In India also. As soon as they get some education, they don't want to be a farmer.

Gurudāsa: They're going to the cities.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They will be satisfied to become a petty clerk and get some very little income. They will be satisfied. They don't want to be śūdra. That is the real śūdra. They are satisfied simply by eating, that's all. No ambition.

Gurudāsa: So somehow or other we have to attract some śūdras to our movement if we want to work self-sufficiently.

Prabhupāda: So for the time being, what is to be done? We shall take it, then we shall see, find out śūdra, (indistinct) better price. But we will require more land.

Gurudāsa: We will require a self-sufficient... Not only land, but we require a self-sufficient community.

Prabhupāda: That is wanted.

Gurudāsa: Because of Kali-yuga. And also everyone in Vṛndāvana that I mention that we are planning to have gośala, everyone likes the idea. That will be very popular here. Gośala, everyone, their eyes become bright.

Prabhupāda: Make at least gośala, keep cows. That is also profitable.

Gurudāsa: Yes, maybe we should do that.

Prabhupāda: One or two men may simply take care of the cows.

Morning Walk -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: ...and Roman climate the same? No.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Rome is a little warmer, isn't it?

Dhanañjaya: Yes.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Now the whole city is a little more humid.

Prabhupāda: Paris?

Satsvarūpa: It's sunny.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Sunnier than London. Very close to London.

Dhanañjaya: Not cold like London ever.

Prabhupāda: There is snow. (break) ...and Darjeeling. (break)

Atreya Ṛṣi: Anthropomorphic.

Prabhupāda: Anthropomorphic. That means man worship.

Satsvarūpa: They deify a man. He's a man but the people make him as a god.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Atheist do not accept God anywhere. So atheist is different thing. Atheist is atheist. Āsuriṁ. Āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. Atheist has no knowledge. (break)

Dhanañjaya: ...control the whole of Rome. They own nearly all the businesses. (break)

Atreya Ṛṣi: ...a few enjoying very much. In the whole city, a lot of parks, a lot of amphitheaters and that is how they went to ruin.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Luxury leads to poverty. American luxury or European luxury leading to these hippies' poverty. Voluntarily they are accepting poverty. Opposite. Sometimes this side, sometimes that side. Pendulum.

Dhanañjaya: What is that? (loud noise from birds)

Prabhupāda: Cranes.

Dhanañjaya: Cranes?

Satsvarūpa: The zoo.

Dhanañjaya: Those are pelicans, with the big bag underneath. And there are some South American animals, llamas. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...fight with tiger and elephants?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Lions.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the defect. That is the defect.

Richard Webster: Especially in Italy.

Prabhupāda: You do not want to live in the village, farm. In your country I am seeing. America, the farmer's son, they are leaving. They are not coming back to the country. In India also.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Cities have become centers for sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Atreya Ṛṣi: And it attracts...

Richard Webster: Who?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Sense gratification, sensual living.

Richard Webster: Oh, sense gratification.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes. So it's attracting undisciplined senses.

Richard Webster: Well, I don't call it sense gratification. To me there's no gratification in city life.

Atreya Ṛṣi: That's because you're wise.

Prabhupāda: On the whole, as I began, that there is no guiding men. The brain is lacking.

Richard Webster: Well, perhaps I should go now. I've taken too much time. Excuse me. Thank you very much and...

Prabhupāda: Give him some... Give him some... Just wait.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: There is no question of stopping. If that is their livelihood, how they can stop it? That is not possible. But they can add this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra chanting. Then things will be adjusted. It is not possible to stop different methods of livelihood. That is not possible. If one can stop, it is well and good, but even he does not stop, he can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.

Yogeśvara: But ultimately isn't our idea that the city complexes shouldn't remain, that things should become more spread out to farm and rural areas?

Prabhupāda: Yes, naturally. If this man is fed up with this industry, he can go back to village and produce his own food. But he is attached to this industrial activity because he is thinking that "We are getting more money for wine and woman and meat. Let me enjoy." That is the perfect, imp... But if he chants Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, his consciousness will be purified and he will be made not interested this kind of work. He will go back to village and produce food. This is French?

Atreya Ṛṣi: No. It is new, 62 the new American. (BTG?)

Yogeśvara: This was your idea, to put the temple buildings on the magazine. Jayādvaita wrote me about that.

Prabhupāda: Very good picture, encouraging, that so many devotees in one center. It is very much pleasing to me. I started single-handed.

Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes. I went to Moscow. I was invited.

Cardinal Pignedoli: Because they need badly. They need this spirit of friendship with God and with His supreme values. God... Well, I wouldn't say to the Moslem world because they are good believers. And God is probably, they are more faithful to. And for instance, these areas of the modern world like, also in the States sometimes, because these big cities like New York or Tokyo or Toronto, and some, these are cities, where they are areas where spiritual values have no meaning for these people. It's a pity and we have to be very open and very friendly to them. I gather this. And your method is meditation and prayer, if I understand it well.

Prabhupāda: There are two things. We recommend two things. For the mass of people, this prayer, kīrtana, a prayer. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma. So this is prayer. Hare means appealing to the energy of God, and Kṛṣṇa is God. "O the energy of God, O God, please engage me in your service." This is the sum and substance of the Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare: "O the energy of God, 'Kṛṣṇa,' O the Lord, please engage me in Your service." Because we are now engaged in the service of Satan, māyā. I think... Māyā. So therefore we are suffering. Service we have to render. Because we are meant for rendering service. But when you forget God, then you render service to māyā. Therefore it is the prayer to God that "Please pick me from this service and engage me to Your service." That's all. Service is my occupation. I cannot become master. That is not possible. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they sometimes say that "We are now in māyā. As soon as we are out in māyā, then we become master." We do not agree to this philosophy. We remain servant even after liberation. We are servant here and we are servant always. Just like a citizen and government. The government is always master. If you do not accept the laws of government, then you are put into prison. There also you are subjected to the laws of God, or the government. Similarly, either in māyā or liberated, we are always servant, eternal servant. But when we are servant in liberation, giving service to God, that is our real life or real happiness. But when we give service to the māyā, that is our miserable condition. So in Moscow I have been. I had a long talk with Professor Kotofsky, the Indologist.

Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Monsignor Verrozano: A great sign of interest.

Cardinal Pignedoli: Thank you. Well, may we be united in hopes and prayer and...

Prabhupāda: Yes, kindly pray to God.

Cardinal Pignedoli: Thank you for your kindness, for coming, and if sometimes you come to Rome, don't forget this. This is a very difficult place to find out. Now you know it. You have been here. With Monsignor Verrozano. That's nice. I will leave now for Africa, Bamako, Mali, for a meeting with Moslems. Bamako, be there for a few days, Bamako, Freetown, Bathurst, Conakry these cities of West Africa, French-speaking Africa.

Dhanañjaya: Some of our devotees are going to Lagos.

Cardinal Pignedoli: Ah, Lagos. Ah yeah. You are going, also you?

Dhanañjaya: No, not me. My godbrothers...

Cardinal Pignedoli: I have been there for three years, in Lagos, a big city. The majority are Moslems, sixty percent. And others are Christians or local religions. They are deeply religious people in Nigeria. Deeply religious. All believers, they say. Thank you. I am so happy. (end)

Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 25, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: That means their... That is their disease. The same thing, that "Why you are sitting here? Come with me, work." "What shall I do by working?" "You get money." "Then you'll enjoy." "And I am already enjoying." That the... This is called māyā. Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). These rascals, simply for little temporary so-called benefit, they have created this working civilization, "Work very hard, very hard." That's all. Whole history... In this Rome city you can see. There are evidences. These buildings are constructed with hard labor. Now those rascals have gone, and they are maintaining, that "They worked so hard." Those who worked very hard they have gone away. Now nobody knows where they are and what they have become. But they are maintaining their bricks. That's all. Brick civilization. (break)

Yogeśvara: No one goes into the park at night. Too dangerous.

Prabhupāda: Just see. They have created such a civilization.

Yogeśvara: The little boy of President John Kennedy was in Central Park last week, and another boy came and pushed him to the ground and stole his bicycle. The president's son.

Prabhupāda: From the very beginning, stealing, and robbing. What is this picture? One horse without any...

Yogeśvara: I think it is the horse of the hunter.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Naturally he will do. If you make him Kṛṣṇa conscious, if he attends the Kṛṣṇa conscious program, naturally he will do. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi. That is the progress of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He will be satisfied in any condition of life. That is progress of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He doesn't require anything artificially. His main necessity is how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. So if his attention is diverted in that way, these things will be not important.

Yogeśvara: So then we should begin our rural communities like New Vrindaban, and then by training up people in the cities, we can send them gradually...

Prabhupāda: There will be no city. We don't want cities.

Bhagavān: What about our city temples?

Prabhupāda: No, no. For the time it may go on. But as we make progress, there will be no necessity. City means... For the present we have got. Because the city is there, we are there. But suppose the city is closed. We shall be there? If the city is closed, you still will be there?

Yogeśvara: But we can predict that the cities will go on for quite some time.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it will go on, but when they will see that your ideal community is better than city life, people will take to it. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). When one gets a better standard of life, naturally he will give up the lower standard of life.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome:

Dhanañjaya: But won't the countryside be spoiled if there is an atomic war?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The what is called...?

Dhanañjaya: Radioactivity.

Prabhupāda: By atomic bomb... What is that? The... It says in your country, that you divide the city. I just forget.

Yogeśvara: The result of the bomb?

Prabhupāda: Bomb will be utilized where there are big materialistic persons. Bombs are never thrown in the village.

Bhagavān: The bombs will be thrown in the big cities where the industry is.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Yogeśvara: The targets will be the cities.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They will be finished first. The bombs are never used at the villages. Downtown, downtown. (laughter) The downtown will be first finished. I have got experience during the last war. The bombs were being thrown in Calcutta and almost all the bombs were thrown in downtown.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome:

Bhagavān: They know they don't want to bomb the countryside or else how can they live?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhagavān: The overpopulation is in the city.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhagavān: They think that overpopulation occurs in underdeveloped countries, but actually in every city it is overpopulation, people living on top of each other like rats.

Prabhupāda: (loud noises) These are subway trains?

Dhanañjaya: No, these are ordinary trains.

Prabhupāda: So all your problems solved?

Bhagavān: No, not yet.

Prabhupāda: Put problems. I'll solve.

Yogeśvara: Here's a problem. The women today want the same rights as men. How can they be satisfied?

Prabhupāda: Everything will be satisfied. Just like our women, Kṛṣṇa conscious, they are working. They don't want equal rights with men. It is due to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are cleansing the temple, they are cooking very nicely. They are satisfied. They never say that "I have to go to Japan for preaching like Prabhupāda." They never say. This is artificial. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means work in his constitutional position. The women, men, when they remain in their constitutional position, there will be no artificial (indistinct) (loud traffic noises)

Bhagavān: They say that our women are unintelligent because they submit so easily, but...

Prabhupāda: Subway?

Dhanañjaya: No. This is also public transport, other trains.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Everything will be satisfied. Just like our women, Kṛṣṇa conscious, they are working. They don't want equal rights with men. It is due to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are cleansing the temple, they are cooking very nicely. They are satisfied. They never say that "I have to go to Japan for preaching like Prabhupāda." They never say. This is artificial. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means work in his constitutional position. The women, men, when they remain in their constitutional position, there will be no artificial (indistinct) (loud traffic noises)

Bhagavān: They say that our women are unintelligent because they submit so easily, but...

Prabhupāda: Subway?

Dhanañjaya: No. This is also public transport, other trains.

Bhagavān: But actually, our women are so qualified in so many ways, but these girls who simply work in the city can do nothing. They can't cook, they can't clean, they can't sew.

Prabhupāda: All rubbish, these modern girls, they are all rubbish. Therefore they are simply used for sex satisfaction. Topless, bottomless... (end)

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Dhanañjaya: I noticed this when I took the train from Calcutta to Krishnanagar. Once you get further out, it's so nice, the villages. There is the pond there.

Prabhupāda: And... Why Calcutta? You go to the airport. You will find so nice gardens, still existing. Now it is spoiled also. Because people have changed locally to the city. Nobody has to take care now. Otherwise, in Bengal especially, throughout the whole India, Bengal was so beautiful. The Europeans became attracted by the beauty of Bengal. Therefore they made Calcutta their capital, the Britishers. Yes. Every European liked Bengal. Every European. I met one European German gentleman in Bombay. He was in Calcutta. When I was in Bimha (?). So I asked, "Why you left Calcutta?" "Oh, I am very sorry. Calcutta was so nice." And actually. Where we have got our temple, these quarters were known as "Sahib" quarter. Just like our temple is "Sahib" temple. So these Chowringee and Camac Street, Park, these were all European. They liked very much to live in Bengal. And there is another story. One English officer he became attracted by the beauty of a Bengali woman. There is story by Bankima Candra. Candrashekhara. The man was after that woman, how to get it. That is the subject matter of story. He was attracted by the black eyes and black hair. Bengali beauty.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Dhanañjaya: And the futuristic plans for the cities have... They are going to enclose the cities in big domes made of plastic. And all the roads instead of being on the ground, they will be in the sky too. And they will have aerial roadways.

Prabhupāda: Means idle brain, devil's workshop. They are thinking, "In this way we shall be happy." Then they will plan another thing, another thing, and everything will be broken. It is same childish play like that.

Dhanañjaya: But these things must have been done before.

Prabhupāda: That is going on. Therefore it is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām: (SB 7.5.30) "chewing the chewed." That's all. You know the sugarcane. You chew it and throw it, and again another man comes to chew it again. This is going on. They do not have the sense... Even in this Rome city, they see that "Big, big buildings were constructed by our previous forefathers and they are now lying, now simply relics. So this will be also relics. So what we are doing actually?" But they have no sense. Another relic. And other generation come; they will make another relic. This is called punaḥ punaḥ, again and again chewing the chewed. That's all. They have no other brain to do something else, which is actually fact. They are seeing it, that this will be say, after two thousand years it will be all useless. So what actually we are doing?" They have no sense of what is actuality, what is reality, no spiritual knowledge. Therefore bahir-artha-māninaḥ, external something, some engagement, like children. They play with something; they do not know that "It has no future, it has no meaning, what we are doing." They do not know it. But they are very busy. So this is all childish, ignorance.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Devotee: The Communists say that first we must feed the people, give the people the same rights, and after, we will give them a life of spiritual life, a life of...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But you cannot do that. Why there are so many hungry people all over the world? What you have done? There are thousands and thousands. Even in big, big cities like New York, why there are so many people lying on the street? Why the hippies are lying on the street, on the park? So what is the value of your, this proposal? You cannot stop it.

Devotee: Yeah, but they criticize us that we don't want to feed...

Prabhupāda: No, why the hippies are lying on the street or in the park? Why? You give them relief. The whole Amsterdam city is full of hippies lying on the street and park. What you are doing for them? They are not poor men. They have got enough to eat. Their parents, father, grandfather, they can give. Why they are lying? What you can do? Go and pick them up. Make them nicely living. Why don't you do that? Talking nonsense. What is their answer? Why they have become hippies? They are not... The Indians may be poverty-stricken, but they are not poverty-stricken. In England the whole British empire is there. The whole American government is there. And still, western countries, they have got resources. They have means. They are not poor. Why your sons and grandsons are lying on the street? What is their answer? They are making plan that everyone would live materially very comfortably, but why these people, in spite of possessing material facilities... (break) Yes, this is the real problem.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: I remember on a walk in Vṛndāvana, Your Divine Grace said that there should be no politics in our society because a Vaiṣṇava means one who wants to help others become happy.

Prabhupāda: Now politics is coming in. As soon as we are getting money, the politics coming. That is a great concern.

Yogeśvara: What will happen to our temples in the cities? Will we keep them?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Yogeśvara: Our temples. These big, big temples we have now.

Prabhupāda: No, no. We have to go everywhere. Wherever there is opportunity to instruct about this spiritual subject matter, we must go there. We should not have such discrimination, that city should be neglected. No. Why? They are also human being. They are misled. So we have to give them a little instruction. Everywhere. In cities there is possibility. Whatever we have collected, our men, that is from city, not from the village. So why should we neglect city? Where is the question? (break) All hobgoblin, the last word which I said, "dressing the dead body, decorating the dead body." The society has no brain; that means dead body. When a man's brain is gone, he is dead body, maybe he is living. He has no use. Just like a madman. He has got life, but what is the use of that life? It is already dead. Because his brain is deranged. Is it not? So if the brain is lost, brain is deranged, therefore it is dead body. That is the distinction between living body and dead body. A living man has got brain. He can work with his brain. And the dead bod... The body is there. Why call it dead? Because brain is not working. Brain is dead. That is the difference. Although the hand is there. The dead man has also hand. The leg is there. The dead man has also leg. But why the hand is leg? Because the brain is dead.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: Oh, yes. He asked me to excuse him to you. He had a meeting to go to.

Prabhupāda: I would say "If he has no brain, what is the use of going to a meeting?" (laughter) Our only... Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). The men are like dogs, hogs, camels and asses. What they will do? Meeting of the dogs, hogs, camels and asses will be any beneficial to the society? We are very pessimistic, and our conclusion, that anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is dogs, hogs, camels, asses, that's all. No brain, animal. Animal has got brain: how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex life. So these people, they have got brain for that purposes only. That is animal life. Actually, they do not know what is the aim of life, why people should be educated, why human society should be organized. They do not know. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Enamored by these big, big buildings. That's all. "Oh, they are so advanced." And naturally, the common man comes to the European or American city, he says, "Oh, Americans are very rich." "Rich" means they have piled up stones and bricks, that's all. This is their richness. What is there in the richness here? But people are common men. They think that this piling of bricks and stone is like real civilization. What do you think? Is that real civilization?

Yogeśvara: No.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Sixty volumes of these books.

Yogeśvara: (French-Yogeśvara showing books)

Prabhupāda: And Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

M. Roche-dieu: Whose are those pictures?

Yogeśvara: Our students. We have our painting workshop in New York City. All of these books have color illustrations.

M. Roche-dieu: Indian students?

Yogeśvara: No. He asks if our students are Indian. He likes the paintings. He was wondering whether they were done by Indian students.

Prabhupāda: No. American students under my direction.

Yogeśvara: (French)

Prabhupāda: You can inform about our reception in the higher circles. Professors, they have ordered all the sixty volumes of...

Satsvarūpa: The letter, in English.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Guru-gaurāṅga: (translates)

Prabhupāda: So there are two īśvaras. I am also īśvara. So far my, this body is concerned or my family is concerned, I am controlling. But the supreme controller, He is controlling everything. That is God. So those who are atheists, they must accept that there is the supreme controller, and He is God. So God is controlling everything. There are two things—material and spiritual. We have got experience. Suppose in this city of...

Swiss Man (4): Geneva.

Prabhupāda: Geneva, there are varieties of living entities and also houses and mountains. So two things, animate and inanimate. One section, animate; another section, inanimate. So we are small gods, or īśvaras. We may control the government and the management of the street and parks and everything, but we are controlled by the supreme. As supreme God, the supreme controller is not controlled by anyone. I am controlling, but I am being controlled by somebody else. That is God. So therefore we have to admit, we must admit that we are not free. We are controlled. Eh? By superior power or superior controller we are controlled. Therefore our duty is to be controlled according to His desire. So if we agree to be controlled by the Supreme, that is perfect life. And if we do not like to come to be controlled by the supreme, that is sinful life. And this is the perfect knowledge.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Why should you fight? If you cannot... Suppose you cannot... Can you fight with death? Māyā, māyā has imposed upon you death. So fight with māyā, that there will be no death. That you cannot do. So you are always, what is called, defeated. That is your position. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So best thing is surrender to Kṛṣṇa for protection. That is wanted. We don't think, "minority." Suppose... Hare Kṛṣṇa people, how many there are in the Paris City? How many?

Yogeśvara: Seventy, eighty.

Prabhupāda: So we are not sorry that minority. Where is the...? Insignificant. Don't talk of minority. But we are not sorry. Minority, majority, all these are foolishness. The whole platform is mistaken. (pause) Rūpa Gosvāmī was a minister. He was in the majority. But voluntarily, he accepted minority. He went to Vṛndāvana and living alone, underneath a tree. He was enjoying so much honor. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīm. His associates were big, big zamindars, big businessmen, politicians. Because he's minister. But he preferred to resign that post and become a minority, to live alone in Vṛndāvana underneath a tree. Why he preferred this? And remaining there alone, he has given you the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. So we have to see how much service we are going to give Kṛṣṇa. This minority, majority, these are all material conception of life. If you can give major service to Kṛṣṇa, that is your success of life. I started this movement alone, minority. Is it not?

Yogeśvara: Yes, one.

Car Conversation on the way to Chateau -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Bhagavān: ...modern buildings. And they're very frustrated here.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Bhagavān: They're becoming very violent.

Prabhupāda: Education means producing rogues. (break)

Bhagavān: "...houses. Our houses are too expensive." It's a big problem everywhere.

Prabhupāda: Why do they not go outside?

Bhagavān: The problem is in the cities.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Rascals, they want to live in city and drink wine and eat meat. So there must be problems. This civilization is simply to create problems, anartha. Anartha. Anartha means unnecessarily problems. So these rascals, they do not know how to solve it. But the solution is this bhakti-yoga. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:

anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād
bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje
lokasyājānato vidvāṁś
cakre sātvata-saṁhitām
(SB 1.7.6)

These anarthas, problems, they have created under the influence of māyā. So if you want to solve it, you take to bhakti-yoga. Anarthopaśamam. Directly it will be solved, directly. Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam, lokasya ajānataḥ. The rascals, they do not know. Therefore vidvān, Vyāsadeva, the most learned, vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām, he has done this sātvata, Vaiṣṇava literature, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That is the only solution. These rascals, they have created problems. Therefore we have started this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement for their benefit. Let them cooperate, and we shall make solution of all problems-political, social, everything. Let them come and cooperate. (pause) They are not agreeable to close the slaughterhouse? Yesterday, you were not present when that mayor came?

Bhagavān: I was there.

Morning Walk -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That means somebody has created. So how you can say that man has created everything? The fallacy, just see. How rascal they are. That I wanted to say.

Paramahaṁsa: You have quoted a great English poet who said...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Paramahaṁsa: You have quoted a great English Poet who says that "Man has created the city..."

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.

Paramahaṁsa: "...and God has created the country."

Prabhupāda: This is the statement of Mr. Cowper. Man has created nothing. Suppose this building, man has created. But wherefrom the ingredient comes. Has man created? This stone, man has created? Eh? What do you think? Is this stone, creation of man?

Paramahaṁsa: No.

Prabhupāda: Then what... You have done the work of a laborer. That's all. You have taken ingredients from God and worked hard and transformed into a step. That's all. Your creation means just like carpenter creates a furniture. That's all. That is his creation. Then that is... The economic law says that man cannot create anything. He can simply transform. These trees, has man created these trees? Why do they claim man has created everything?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: But they will say that they made the garden.

Morning Walk -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Paramahaṁsa: Right.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What you have created?

Paramahaṁsa: Life becomes so artificial. In the big city, people don't see that they depend on God.

Prabhupāda: No, no. City or country, that I don't say that Mr. Cowper is perfect in his statement. City is also created by God. City is also created by God. God has given you the ingredients, He has given you the intelligence, and you create. Eh? Wherefrom you get the intelligence? Eh? Who will answer this? Wherefrom the man gets his intelligence?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: From Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is the verse?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam...

Prabhupāda: Ah. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ. So He is sitting in everyone's heart, and He's giving intelligence. And because the intelligence comes from God, therefore one is more intelligent, one is less intelligent. Because intelligence is not his. It is by the mercy of God one gets more intelligence, one gets less intelligence. So intelligence is supplied by God.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: He says then that's very serious because if you have no problems, that means you are trying to escape from the world because the world is full of problems.

Prabhupāda: We are in the Paris City. How we have escaped from the world? (laughter) We have got branches in London, in Paris in New York and big, big cities, and all these boys are coming from big, big cities. How they have escaped? It is not justice. If he says that "They have escaped," that is wrong statement. We are not escaping anything. (French)

Bhagavān: What kind of proof are you looking for? Let's talk about proof. What kind of proof are you looking for? (French)

Prabhupāda: Now, another point is he's accusing us that we're escaping. Why he's escaping Kṛṣṇa consciousness? (French)

Yogeśvara: He says he thinks that what we're doing is simply a kind of medicine that doesn't actually resolve the problems that people are facing.

Prabhupāda: If it is not result, then how this boy says, "We have no problem"? The patient says that he is cured, and you say that it is not curing? (French)

Bhagavān: (to translators) So repeat to Prabhupāda what he said. (French) We have proof that anyone from any part of the world who takes to this process loses his problems. It's not a matter of western or eastern.

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: Shraddhananda Giri.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He said that "Swamiji, you are doing the greatest work, that God's name you are distributing." He said like that. And when the record was going on, he was very rapt attention, he was very... So actual yogi means he'll be attracted by bhakti-yoga. And these gymnasticians, what they'll understand about yoga? That is a process to control the mind. Those who are too much bodily concept of life, for them that exercise is required. But that is also not properly done. They must find out a very sacred place and practice yoga alone, not with group. Group is possible in bhakti-yoga, not this haṭha-yoga. That is not possible. The first attempt is condemned. Therefore all the yogis in India, actually those who are practicing yoga, they'll live outside human society. They never live in the city and get students to get them practice. And take thirty-five dollar fee. These are all bogus.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Bhagavān: We have this festival in very big, in the same scale, in Australia, London, San Francisco, Chicago.

Prabhupāda: Where is that poster? Australia? Yes.

Bhagavān: And in all these cities we are joined... In San Francisco there are ten thousand people who come at least every year to help pull the carts and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: In Chicago also. Philadelphia. There will be Ratha-yātrā. this is the...

Satsvarūpa: This is for Melbourne, Australia, Ratha-yātrā parade, (shows a poster), picture of the parade last year.

Professor La Combe: Last year.

Prabhupāda: No, this year they are advertising.

Professor La Combe: Which is to come.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Professor La Combe: Cities and villages.

Prabhupāda: Cities, yes, villages; sarvatra...,

Professor La Combe: Everywhere.

Prabhupāda: "everywhere;" pracāra, "propaganda" or "publicity," pracāra; haibe, "there will be;" mora nāma, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's name. So now it is being so. All over the world we have got branches, and they know Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa movement means Caitanya Mahāprabhu's. So that is being now propagated.

pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma
sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma
(CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126)

Professor La Combe: I understand.

Prabhupāda: So He predicted and by His great will it is being propagated.

Professor La Combe: How many officials (?) are there?

Prabhupāda: We have got about hundred branches, and each branch, there are not less than twenty-five up to 250. So average, if you take one hundred, then it is ten thousand, yes. And all of them are young, within thirty, within thirty. So... And they are trying to understand the philosophy very nicely, even these girls. She knows. In India, even the big, big learned scholars, they are-Indian scholar, I mean—they were surprised when some of my students, the young students, girls and boys, were speaking in Navadvīpa.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Devotee: Rādhā-Gopīnātha.

Prabhupāda: Gopīnātha, yes. So Gopīnātha temple, Madana-Mohana temple, Rādhā-Dāmodara temple, Śyāmasundara and Gokulānanda, Gokulānanda. These are old seven temples. Later on, other big, big temples. Raṅganātha temple and Gaekwad (?) temple, like that, Jaipur temple. They came into existence. But there are five thousand temples in Vṛndāvana's city, municipal area. Practically each house is a temple. In every house there is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Deity and being worshiped by some devotees. The Ārya-samājī movement... You know something about Ārya-samāja?

Professor La Combe: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Dayananda Sarasvati, he made vigorous propaganda against temple worship. Nobody cared. (laughs) Nobody...

Professor La Combe: Even now, nowadays, now they are...

Prabhupāda: No, their influence is gone, Ārya-samāja.

Professor La Combe: No, I mean the Ārya-samāja is no more very active now.

Prabhupāda: They cannot active, because whatever activity they had, they finished. The stock and energy is gone.

Professor La Combe: How long will you stay in Paris?

Prabhupāda: I am going on Sunday morning.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Bhagavān: Folies Bergere.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And we have heard from our childhood that Paris is a place where people can go and enjoy prostitution. When we were children. I told you last night. So this city is undoubtedly constructed with good merit, but it is used for sinful act... Nobody goes to... Beautiful church, nobody goes there. But beautiful, that theater, because there is naked dance, everyone goes. And therefore duṣkṛtina. Church is vacant. Only the tourists come to see the churches. Not that such a important city, always glorification of Lord is going on. Just like we are trying to do. Take prasādam, worship the Deity, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That would have been the activities of these beautiful churches, but there is no such activity, because people are duṣkṛtina. They have got merit, to construct very nice wonderful buildings, but it is meant for sinful activities: illicit sex, intoxication, gambling and so on. And poor women, they are victimized by these rascals. That's all. Then.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: In Twelfth Canto. (break) ...it is stated.

tasmāt kṣudra-dṛśo martyāḥ
kṣudra-bhāgyā mahāśanāḥ
kāmino vitta-hīnāś ca
svairiṇyaś ca striyo 'satīḥ

"Gradually people will become dwarf, will die very soon, mostly unfortunate, eating too much, and very much sexually agitated, no money, and independent, and the women, all unchaste." Just see. Everything's coming true. Rājan,

rājānaś ca prajā-bhakṣāḥ
śiśnodara-parā dvijāḥ
dasyūtkṛṣṭā janapadā
vedāḥ pāṣaṇḍa-dūṣitāḥ

"The cities will be full of rogues and thieves." Just see.

Yogeśvara: That's Paris.

Prabhupāda: Anywhere. In Calcutta it was dangerous to go out because the next... You do not know whether you'll come back. People are so afraid. He's going to work in the office. It will be God's grace if he returns back. It is such a city. Actually so happened. We were sitting, I was at that time in a... I was guest in our life member's. Sitting in morning, afternoon, o'clock (?). "Oh, that gentleman is killed." He was very important businessman. He went to the temple, a Marwari, and on his coming back, he was killed from the backside. Life is still so, but it is little diminished. (break) ...about so-called saintly persons, they are: tapasvino grāma-vāsāḥ. "The so-called yogis, they'll live in the town." Actually, the yogis have no business in the town. They should go to a secluded place. But they will live in... Just like the other... He's living in Paris City, and he's a yogi.

Morning Walk -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: And why don't you think? That means you are fool. You cannot think, just like dog cannot think. So you are equal to dog. Tell them like that. It is not the question of East and West. It is the question of understanding. In the East also there are many rascals, and in the West there are many intelligent. If it is the East and West question, how the Western boys and girls taking this philosophy? It is not the East and West. It is the question of the rascal and intelligent. One who is intelligent, either he is East and West, he can understand. And one is a rascal, either he is East and West, he cannot understand. This is the real problem. Just like this cemetery. What is the use of keeping this cemetery, occupying unnecessarily so much land? And they are worshiping. They will not go to worship Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, but they will worship stone, bhūtejya, offer flower, kneel down. And where the man has gone, he does not know. Bhūtejya. And we saw in the Geneva. A big plot of land is occupied.

Haṁsadūta: Every city has two or three at least, very big, because everyone has to get such a plot.

Prabhupāda: And there are many ghosts also. Yes. Especially at night, if you go, you will see. There was a ghost in the house of John Lennon. John Lennon. I was guest there. There was a ghost. (break) ...binding to the māyā, to just remain a slave of māyā and drink this beer. (break)

Haṁsadūta: They introduced this.

Prabhupāda: So before that, there was no Christian?

Haṁsadūta: No, before that, there was no Christian.

Prabhupāda: What they were? No religion?

Haṁsadūta: They were like you said. They were just tribes people.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So these Germans were tribe people, uncivilized?

Haṁsadūta: Yes, before Christianity, Europe was completely uncivilized.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1974, Germany:

Haṁsadūta: Do you want to go this way around, Prabhupāda, or just walk straight on?

Prabhupāda: No, straight. Car is there?

Haṁsadūta: Yeah, car is there, following us. (break)

Prabhupāda: Artificially they live in the city.

Professor Durckheim: Yes, there are now millions and millions of children who never have seen a cow, never seen a horse.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Professor Durckheim: They go and stand at the zoo to see an animal. Yes, It's true. And I have just now in my center the visit of six Americans from Chicago who have their psychological center, and they wanted to know what we do, and they told me. They have a special little area where children are taken to see one cow, you see, or one horse just to know what it is because they never see it, never see an animal.

Prabhupāda: Most unnatural life. City life, most unnatural.

Reporters Interview -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Guest (2): ...in this material universe?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like when you say, "United States of America," that's actually a place. There are living entities. There are men and mountains, rivers. Everything is there. Similarly, all these planets, they are inhabited by living entities. There are similarly cities and towns and mountains and rivers and oceans. Everything is there—of different pattern. Just like the moon planet. It is... The temperature is 200 degree below zero. So you cannot go and live there. But there are living entities who can live there. Just like even on this planet, there are living entities in the Arctic region, but for us it is very difficult to live there. And there are different climatic influences. Even on this planet. One place is suitable for one kind of man, another place is suitable for another. Just like we are Indian. We cannot tolerate such, I mean, what is called, pinching, cool. So similarly, in India you cannot tolerate scorching heat. So for each and every planet there are different patterns of living entities. They can live. Just like you cannot live within water. For that reason you cannot say nobody can live in the water. That is foolishness. You cannot live. You say. So there are so many fishes, varieties of fishes. They are living. Don't carry your present experience to others. That is not very good argument. Now, here the so-called scientists, they are saying in other planets there is no living entity. Why? They are putting so many reasons, that "This is lacking. This is lacking." But what do you know, what is lacking and how...? These things are not accepted. You do not know anything about the other planets. How you say there is no living entity?

Guest (3): Your Divine Grace, is there a Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement in India?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Bhurijana dasa and Disciples -- July 1, 1974, Melbourne:

Paramahaṁsa: A little bitter.

Prabhupāda: Yes, very bitter. So the cuckoo, they try to eat the mango fruit flower when small, and the crow they eat that nim tree fruit. So amongst the birds also, there is discrimination according to the quality. Cuckoo sings very nicely. He is fond of mango fruit. And the crow is fond of this nim tree fruit. The white swan, they live in a very nice garden. There is lake, flower. And the crows, they live in the city. Of course, here in your country the garbage is not open. In India there is thrown anywhere and the crows... You have seen it?

Devotees: Yes.

Prabhupāda: They enjoy that. Tad-vāyasaṁ-tīrtham. It is mentioned in the Bhāgavata. Tad vāyasaṁ-tīrtham. Find out this. No, it is in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Na tad-vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo pragṛṇīta karhicit tad vāyasaṁ-tīrtham uṣanti mānasāḥ.

Jagattāriṇī: Śrīla Prabhupāda, my friends have to leave now.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...understanding of spiritual platform. It is impossible. Therefore, a human being, if he does not come on the spiritual platform, he remains animal. That is the difference. Therefore, Bhagavad-gītā, you will find the first beginning of teaching-dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Dr. Muncing: Well, I'm not sure that I could call it the social theme of science. I'm concerned with building research. We came to realize three or four years ago that whilst we had got a long way in understanding the material things that go to make up houses and cities, we were a long way from knowing what people wanted the thing that gets called quality of life. We have been beginning to look at this subject, commencing in the first place in northwestern Australia where there are a lot of mining activity, and there people go for a short time. They go to fairly small settlements, and we were interested in how important the housing was in the total. We've got a long way to go, and this looks to be a fairly interesting area. Unless you want to ask about that, I think I'd be interested in what further things Australia should be helping Asia with. We've spoken about milk things already, and I hope before we finish you can tell us what things we should be learning of Asia that we haven't learned in the past.

Madhudviṣa: He wants... He would like to know what you think that Australia should help Asia with as far as making people more comfortable to live in this world and what Australia can imbibe from Asia as far as teaching in science as well as general living.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So far I have studied, not only Australia, but also America and Africa, there are immense land uncultivated. So I think all these countries... The population increased in India, China, and similar other places. They should allow to come them, come here and produce food grains. If you cannot manage the over-populated countries, they should come. If the government allows, they would immediately come and utilize the vast land for producing food grains. And in the Bhagavad-gītā we have the statement-find out, annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Find out this verse. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni.

Morning Walk at Marina del Rey -- July 14, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Fish is not sufficient?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, fish is not enough.

Kṛṣṇa-kānti: They're never satisfied with the foods they take.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Investigation is going on about the availability of food in the ocean.

Jayatīrtha: Also. They want to recycle the stool. There's one big plan to make a big city, and then the stool is recycled, and sixty percent can be again re-eaten.

Umāpati: I heard that in Russia they're already making butter from stool.

Jayatīrtha: Because the body doesn't efficiently take all the nutrients.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They can make butter. This market butter is sometimes coming from stool. (laughter)

Jayatīrtha: We have to get our own cows very quickly.

Umāpati: Here too, in this country also, they're making butter from stool?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Umāpati: In this country also they're doing that?

Prabhupāda: The... I... No. During wartime the German people did it, at least.

Room Conversations -- September 10, 1974, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: Somebody is thinking "I shall become minister," somebody is thinking "I shall become leader," somebody is thinking "I shall become millionaire," and at last, "I shall become God." So even the so-called religionist, that heart disease is there. Bhukti-mukti-siddhi kāmī. Bhukti means ordinary karmīs want to enjoy in this material world. And mukti, they also want "I shall become God, I shall become one with God." That means "I shall become God." One with God means I'll become. Bhukti-mukti and siddhi. The yogis, they want to show some magic power and gain. Just like this rascal is doing, (indistinct) Baba. He has some yogic siddhi, so he has some (indistinct). Otherwise what is the attraction? He is a most wretched man, always he's smoking, and he sleeps too long, no regulation of life. But people are attracted because they have been captivated that "If I pay him one lakh, I shall get two lakhs." This is the propaganda. It is a..., what is called, gambling. You put one rupee, and if you are successful you will get four rupees. Siddhi. Because material world, they think "If I get more money, then it is perfection." Everywhere, the whole world is thinking-nationwise, individual—how to become. You will find in Europe the same propensity. Napoleon is trying to make Paris the most opulent city in Europe. Or Englishmen, Gladstone and others, they are trying to make England, London, most opulent city in the world. Similarly, czar was very accomplished. (indistinct) it is burst out into war. So we see the propensity. In Paris, the Place Concorde, so many beautiful buildings are there for museum, how they have conquered. In Rome, how they have conquered over Egypt, that pyramid they have brought. You have been in Rome?
Room Conversations -- September 11, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Their center is sex—this sex or that sex or that sex, even ordinarily. In Paris, Paris you know it is a city of prostitutes. On the roads there are prostitutes. Where we have got our temple, so many prostitutes are standing. And those who are prostitute-hunter, they go to Paris. From our childhood I know about one family physician. We are at that time boy, 8 or 10 years old. He was talking with his another Muhammadan friend how he toured many countries and how many different types of prostitutes he tasted. This was his talk. So he was talking of Paris, "Though you are boy...," this we could understand." This is the talk. Old men, retired men, they will also talk of the sex (indistinct), and they will enjoy. Now they could not enjoy sex, but by talking... And we have practically seen when we were young, our grandmother-in-law, my mother-in-law's mother, old lady, she would talk freely about sex. She will ask me, "You capture the breast of your wife." She would make a pun and enjoy. "You do like that, you do like that." She teaches like that. We were... I was twenty, twenty-three years, so I was just married, but she will enjoy sex. She had other grandchildren. My father-in-law were two brothers. So my father-in-law, he was younger brother, and his elder brother, her daughter also the same age, she would enjoy (indistinct) son-in-law. (break) Ministers, prime ministers. The minister, famous.

Page Title:City (Conversations 1968 - 1974)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:25 of Feb, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=160, Let=0
No. of Quotes:160