In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam there is no such mention as Christian religion, Hindu religion, Muslim religion or Buddha religion. There are so many... No. Bhāgavata says, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje: (SB 1.2.6) "That is first-class religion which helps one to love God." So we are propagating teaching people how to love God. That is our mission. We don't say that you become Christian or Hindu or Muslim or..., no. You become a lover of God. So comparatively, the process which we are recommending, that is the easiest process. That is admitted by one priest in Boston. He said that "These boys and girls are our countrymen or our boys. Before this movement, they did not come to the church, and now how they are mad after God?" So therefore this is the easiest process, to become pure and go back to home, back to Godhead. Thank you very much. (end)
Church (Lectures, SB)
Expressions researched:
"church"
|"churches"
|"churchgoing"
|"churchianity"
|"churchtaker"
|"ecclesiastical"
|"ecclesiastics"
Lectures
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
If you follow the religious principles in whichever religion you accept, then you are pious. If you do not follow the religious principles, then you are impious, duṣkṛtina. So at the present moment, practically all over the world they are no longer interested with God and religion. Just like in your city, London, there are so many churches for sale. Why? Because people have become duṣkṛtina. They are no more interested in religion and God. Just see. Otherwise, why the churches should be sold? People are not interested. In India also, the temples, many temples, they are uncared for. They are not for sale. So maybe some of them are also for sale. But I have seen many temples uncared for. At night, one dog is entering and living within the temple. So people have become disinterested in religion and God at the present moment. So therefore according to Bhagavad-gītā such persons are duṣkṛtina. Duṣkṛtina means miscreants or always engaged in sinful activities. If you are not religious, then you must act sinfully.
Yes. For the leaders. They are seeing this poor man is going to church or to temple for asking God, "God give us our daily bread." They are taking the opportunity to spread atheism. They say, "Well, you have prayed for your bread in the temple or in the church. Have you got the bread?" They say, "No. Not yet." "All right. Come to me. You ask me bread." "Yes." They are innocent, "Yes, Mr. such and such, give me bread," and he gives bread. "Take this bread." Then they are convinced, "Oh, God cannot give us bread. Our political leader can give bread."
Yes. They are instructing, If you want economic development, why you are going to church and temple? Just start industry. You'll get money. That is, propaganda is going on. At least, in our country, in India, it is going on. "Forget now God and temples. Just try to imitate America. Overnight become industrialist." But they are not teaching them that America or Western countries, after industrialization, now they are producing hippies. That they do not see. They are seeing one side, that "America and Western countries, they have become so prosperous by industrialization. Let us imitate them. We must have." Actually, India, after independence, should have distributed this spiritual knowledge.
Those who are following the Vedic principles, they think like that. Not only they, others also, the so-called religious system, they also think like that. Just like the Christians. They go to church, "O God, give us our daily bread." So this bread-supplying business is like that: "God simply supplies bread, and we eat and we enjoy." Similarly, the Hindu system also there is: "O God, give me some money. I am very poor. I am suffering from disease. Please cure it." And so everywhere you will find some motive in religiosity. So religion does not mean to solve the economic problem.
Therefore at the present moment they are becoming Godless because now people are advanced in education and knowledge. They think that "If I have to ask bread from God, so why shall I go to God? Let me earn money very nicely, and I can purchase bread. Why shall I go to church?" On account of this motivated religion, the communists are taking advantage, and they are preaching Godlessness. In communist country the innocent village people, they go to church and ask for bread, and when they come out of the church, the communist leader ask them, "Have you got bread?" So they say, "Now ask bread from us." So they ask bread, "O, communist leader, give me bread." So they supply immense quantity of bread: "Take as much as you like." So then they ask, "Who has supplied you bread?"
They say, the communist leader. In this way they propagate, "Now there is no use of going to the church for asking bread from God." And they also practically see that "We, in the church we asked for bread. There was no supply of bread. And as soon as I prayed bread from the communist leader, there are so many breads." But the innocent people, they do not know that this communist leader has supplied bread not from his father's stock; it is from the stock of God. So they are innocent people. They do not know that actually bread is supplied by God because the ingredients of bread, namely the food grains, the wheat or the pulses, that is not made by communist leader. That is made by God.
That is not devotion. That is motive. I wanted to serve God with a motive. As soon as the motive is not fulfilled...
One German friend, my Godbrother, he said, in the last war, in the First World War, every, all manpower went to the active field. So the sister, generally women, left. Women means sister, mother, or wife. So they went to church: "My husband may come back. My brother may come back," or "My son may come back." But nobody came back, so they become atheist. Because they went to the church with some motive and the motive was not fulfilled, they became atheist. Therefore this type of devotion is not pure devotion. Motive... God is not meant for supplying your orders because He takes service. He does not serve anybody. So if we want to bring God for our service, we may be disappointed because God does not agree to serve anybody. He is the master, supreme master.
Now, the question is how the woods and stones which is matter, becomes spiritual. Is not that the question? We say one man is constructing big skyscraper building with woods and stones, we say this is materialism. But they can also challenge you that "You are also interested in woods and stones and constructing a big church or temple. Why is your idea spiritualism?" Now, you can compare. This is spiritualism means in this stone and earth and woods you remember Kṛṣṇa, "I am constructing something for Kṛṣṇa." Therefore it is spiritualism.
So the conclusion is when we forget Kṛṣṇa, that is materialism. And when we constantly remember Kṛṣṇa, that is spiritualism. The materialists means they are thinking of sense gratification. All these big, big buildings were constructed in your country, Edinburgh. The idea was that "We shall show something opulent that we are very great nation. We have got nice buildings, nice churches, nice roads."
Even the Christian priests, they are surprised. In Boston, one Christian priest, he admitted that "These boys, they are our boys, coming from the Christian group or the Jewish group. So before this movement they did not take care even to see us or to ask any question about God or to come to the church. They completely neglected. And now, how it is they are mad after God?" They are surprised. "Why? Why have they become so...?" Because they have taken to the process. The process is important. Simply speculation... Bhakti is not theoretical. It is practical. Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. If you want to take to the bhakti process, it is not speculation. You must actually engage yourself in the process. Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje.
What kind of love? Ahaitukī. To love God not for any other reason, that "God will give me some wealth, God will give me this, God will... I shall take from God this." No. Ahaitukī, no cause, that "Because I am in want of some money, therefore I shall go to church or temple or love God." No. Ahaitukī. Just like people generally go there like that, "O God, give us our daily bread." Well, why you are asking God for daily bread? Daily bread is already given to everyone, even birds and bees. Your bread is also there. But people do not know that "My bread is already there. Why I shall bother God for daily bread? Let me learn how to love God." God is giving us so many things without asking. God is giving us light, God is giving us water, God... Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhiḥ... (BG 7.4). Everything He is giving you, without which cannot live. And He will not give us our bread?
They are dancing in ecstasy of love. Yayātmā suprasīdati. Otherwise what money I have got to bribe them? I am poor Indian. No. They have developed this ecstatic love of Godhead. Even Christian priests admit that "These boys, these girls, were our boys. Now... When they were Christians, they did not come into the church. They did not care. Now these boys are mad after God."
Even this class also elevated to the highest position. So there is no such question. But here the word used, su-medhasaḥ, in the particular sense that for worship of God there are different methods, different religious systems, different methods, different churches, different mosques, different temples. Even accepting that this is Hindu philosophy, so Hindus, they have got many different processes. I think the Hindus have got so many different processes that it can outnumber all the different processes of the world. They have got so many processes.
The test is how far you have developed love of God. That is the test. If you have developed the sense of love for God, then it is to be understood that you have actually followed the religious principle. Not the rituals that go in a hectic way to a temple or to a mosque or to a church, and as a matter of formalities you pay something and come back and do all nonsense of things. That is not religion. Religion is how far you have... Just like in the same way a man is supposed to be great. How? He is considered a great man if he has got riches or he has got knowledge or he has got influence or he has got beauty, so many things. So similarly, how a man can be tested that he is a man of religious principles? The test is that whether he has developed love of God.
I love your skin, I love your money, or I love you for some reason. Oh, that is not love. Here it is stated, "What kind of love of God?" Ahaitukī: "Without any cause." Not that, "My dear God, I love You because You supply me my daily bread." "Oh God, give me my daily bread." This is our prayer. Either in church or in temple, the same thing. In a temple also, generally people go, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, I am in difficulty. Please get me out of it," or "I am in need of some money. Kindly give me a million dollars." Like that. So this is not love of God. This is also very good, that is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, er, Bhagavad-gītā: catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna. If anyone goes to God for asking some benefit, he's also pious man. But he's not a devotee. He may be counted in the list of pious men because he recognizes God, the Supreme; therefore he is pious. But he has not developed the highest principle of religion, love of God.
That is the beginning of humanity, human civilization. Otherwise animals. The animals, they don't say, "I am Christian," "I am Muhammadan," "I am Buddhist," "I am this." No. He's dog. He's cat. That's all. Finished. But a human being says, "I am... I belong to this religion. I belong to that religion." That is required first. They are rejecting religion. The churches are vacant. That means they are becoming cats and dogs. That is not improvement. They are thinking that "I am now no more going to temple, no more going to church. I have come something, Communist or something like that." We don't care for these... That means you have got... This is the certificate that you have become animal. The animal never says that "I belong to this dharma or that dharma." No.
Therefore, distinction between animal and human being, that he must have some dharma. Dharma. And on religious principles, artha, economic development.
Ahaituky apratihatā. Apratihata means without being deterred, without being impeded. If you develop your love of Godhead... You must know first of all what is that God, Adhokṣaja, because beyond your mental perception. But fortunately, if you understand what is God, and when you begin to love Him without any motive... Generally we go to temple, to church, or to mosque, anywhere, the place of worship, "O God give us our daily bread." There is a motive. Similarly, others also, they go to the temple, "O God, I am in need of money, I am distressed, kindly mitigate my distress, give me some money." There is motive. But here it is said ahaitukī, without any motive. If you can love God who is beyond your sense perception and without any motive, that activities of love will never be stopped. Ahaituky apratihatā—without being impeded. Without being impeded by any material condition.
So where is the wrong in this? There is superior judgement and there are different types of body, that is a fact. So how, you cannot deny. Sometimes Christians, they deny this karmavāda. I was a student in Calcutta, Scottish Churches College. So, I was student of philosophy also. So Dr. Urquhart, he denied karmavāda. That "I am punished at this present, present body, where is the witness? Where is the witness?" Because any judgement is done on the strength of witness. So that was his argument. But the witness is there. According to Vedic system the witness is the sun, the witness is the moon, the witness is the day, the witness is the night. And above all the supreme witness is God Himself. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). The Supreme Lord is situated in everyone's heart so how you can hide yourself from the vigilance of the Supreme Lord? The Supreme Lord is witness. So according to your karma...
That is business. Therefore adhokṣaje, with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there should not be any business. Ahaitukī. That is called ahaitukī, no cause. "Because God shall give me my bread..." As in the Christian church they go and say, "O God, give us our daily bread." That is also good because he has gone to God. The atheists, they do not like to speak of God, what to speak of praying from God. That is atheist class.
In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you will find no other topics except to establish the original relationship with Kṛṣṇa, and therefore it is first class. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje ahaitukī (SB 1.2.6), without any... In the material field... What can be done? Some way or other, although it is..., in the Bible it is said... They go to church for asking bread. But that is not paro dharmaḥ, because there is hetu, some cause. But this cause... Similarly in the Muhammadan religion also, just to be promoted to the heavenly kingdom more. No. That is not first class. First class means ahaitukī, without any cause. Not that "I shall go to church, I shall go to mosque, I shall go to temple for asking something from God." That is not first class. That is good in this sense, that these rascals have at least come to pray to God. So much it is. But such kind of prayer does not make the first-class religion.
Then it will be happening. Just like in India it has become. Because they have given up the process of śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam, therefore they are feeling now... Everywhere, not only India, everywhere, because they have given up bona fide śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam, hearing and chanting about God, it has become a burden and they are trying to sell the temples and churches. So don't stop. If you stop this śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam, then you have to..., gradually you will diminish in your devotional service. That is called bhakti-yoga. Bhakti-yoga begins from śravaṇam, from hearing. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam viṣṇoḥ. So Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad-gītā that if we want to know Kṛṣṇa, God, then it has to be known through bhakti-yoga, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). Not by other means. Then Kṛṣṇa would have declared that you can understand God by haṭha-yoga, or jñāna-yoga, or dhyāna-yoga, or karma-yoga.
"You are trying for so many things for becoming happy, but instead of being happy, you are becoming hippie. So please take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and actually you will be happy." That is our mission. That is our mission. Therefore the Bhāgavata says to this hu..., civilized human being, those who have got some religious principle, church, religious institution, that "You are executing your religious principles very nicely, that's all right. But if you do not develop the propensity for hearing about God..."
Just like we have got this temple. We are worshiping Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Deity. That's all right. But side by side we must develop to hear about Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise it will be finished after a few days. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam (SB 7.5.23). As soon as there will be no interest for hearing about God, all these churches and temples and mosques will be finished. In the Christian world that is happening, not only Christian, in other also. They are selling churches. Nobody is going to church, because simply officially going on Sunday without any enlightenment, without any understanding about God, how long it will be prolonged?
People will be disinterested, and they will not go. Actually it is happening. There are so many churches, nobody is going. In London, I have seen. In your country also, there are so many churches vacant. We have purchased so many churches. In Los Angeles we have purchased that church. When it was running as a church, it was a deserted (indistinct). Since we have taken that, every night, every day, hundreds of people are gathering like this, because there is words of Kṛṣṇa. And people are hearing about Kṛṣṇa. Viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ. So you can have your churches, temple or mosque, but if you do not develop your tendency to hear about God, then it will not be successful, śrama eva hi kevalam. Śrama eva hi kevalam.
So you can have your churches, temple or mosque, but if you do not develop your tendency to hear about God, then it will not be successful, śrama eva hi kevalam. Śrama eva hi kevalam.
Dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ. Dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ notpādayed yadi ratim (SB 1.2.8), by going daily to the temple, or to the church, or to the mosque, or anywhere, any religious building or institution, if you do not develop your propensity to hear about God, then you have wasted your time. Śrama eva hi kevalam. Going and coming, it is simply labor, that's all. So that is the test. Therefore either in temple, or in church, in mosque there must be regular recitation on the talks of God. Otherwise people will lose interest, and the churches and temples have to be closed.
Naturally. Naturally. He wants to talk or she wants to talk. So this is called rati. Spontaneous attraction. This is called, it has not to be taught, spontaneous. So as soon as there is spontaneous attraction to hear all about God, that will mean that we are attaining perfection in religion. So if you are going on as a happening program to the church, to the temple, or to the mosque, but there is no spontaneous attraction for hearing about God, then it is simply labor, simply waste of time, that's all. That is explained here.
Tato niṣṭhā tato ruci athāsaktis. Asakti, it is spontaneous attraction. So religious principle means you have to execute the preliminary formulas, but the ultimate end will be you'll have spontaneous attraction for hearing about God or Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. If that thing is not done, then you are simply wasting time by going to church or temple or mosque or any nonsense. Notpādayed yadi ratiṁ śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply waste of time. So don't become a showbottle of religious life. Actually try to understand what is religion, what is God, and make your life successful.
Artha means some material profit. So Sūta Gosvāmī said that dharmasya hy āpavargasya na artaḥ arthāya upakalpate. Arthaya, for some material profit, does not mean. Of course, if you take the meaning of artha as paramārtha, that is required. But material profit, as it is stated here in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam by Sūta Gosvāmī, that to go to the church or to the temple or to become a religious person, does not mean that it is meant for improving your material condition. Generally, people come to us or the temple for asibha (?). What is that asibha? "Now I have got five hundred rupees income. Please give me asibha it may become five thousand." So this is not the purpose of dharma. Here it is stated, dharmasya hy āpavargasya na artaḥ arthāya upakalpate.
What is this sound? Who is doing that? Don't do it. Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya. To become religious means how to counteract these five principles. That is dharma. Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya. Na arthāya hi upakalpate. Not that by executing dharma, "I shall go to temple..."
Everywhere, the Christians go to church to get their bread. "O God, Father, give us our daily bread." What is this demand? God is supplying bread to the cats and dogs and birds and bees and everyone. Why He shall not give me? That means they do not know what to pray. Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya. "God, give me relief from these four kinds of tribulations." That should be prayed. Bread? What is this? Suppose if you go to a king and he says, "All right, you can ask anything from me," and if you say, "Give me bread, a piece of bread," (laughter) is that very intelligent? If you have approached a king, you should ask, "My dear lord, my dear your majesty, may give me something so that I may get free from all kinds of trouble."
What is this prayer? "Give me a little bread"? Of course, it is better than the rascals who are atheists. They do not approach God. They say, "Oh, what is God? I am God. I shall, by economic development, I shall create so many breads. Why shall I go to church?"
So anyone who is going to church and asking God for bread, he's thousand times better than that rascal, who is not going to church, because he's, after all, approaching God. Maybe he does not know what to pray from God, but he's approaching God. Therefore, he's thousand times better than the rascal who is atheist, who does not care for church or temple. That is stated. Sukṛtinaḥ, he's pious, he's accepting God, that "God gives us bread." That principle he is accepting; therefore he is pious, he has been accepted as pious. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna. "Those who are pious, they come to Me." Ārto arthārthī jñānī.
They are all pious. The first is ārta. A common man, if he's pious, if he's in distress, he prays to God, "My dear Lord, kindly rescue me from this difficulty." But he's to be considered as pious, because he's approaching God for relief. Arthārthī, those who are poor, they are going to temple or church for some money, praying to God. They are also pious. And jijñāsu. And one is philosopher, inquiring "What is God? Let us study." Jñānī, those who are learned scholars. So those who are searching after God, trying to understand God, who are approaching God for some difficulty, approaching for some relief, all these persons who are approaching God some way or other, they are pious. And one who is denying the existence of God, trying to make solution by his own knowledge, they are all called asuras. Duṣkṛtinaḥ, miscreants, narādhamāḥ, lowest of the mankind, mūḍhāḥ, rascals.
Actual essence of knowledge has been taken away by the māyā."
So therefore dharma means one should be very serious to get out of this material conditional life. That is real dharma. Nārthāya upakalpate. Not that simply we go to temple or church and ask God for some material benefit. Arthāya, dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90). These are called catur-varga. That is... In the Vedic civilization a human body, or human being, is recognized when he's interested in these four things: dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa. First of all, dharma. Without religious life, animal. What is the value of? Dharmeṇa hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. Anyone who has no religion... It doesn't matter what religion he's following, he must follow some religion. It doesn't matter whether Christian religion, Hindu religion, or Buddha religion, and this religion. It doesn't matter.
You can get money because you are dharmic. So you can get money. But don't employ it kāmo lābhāya, for your sense gratification. Therefore in any country, in the past, I mean to say, millenniums of years, in the days gone by, any rich man, if he has got some money, he would construct some church or some temple or some mosque. That was the system throughout the whole world. Because they knew that "I have got this extra money, I must employ it for God consciousness." But at the present moment, the churches are being transformed into factories, because they have lost religion. And because they have lost religion, they are animals. And how you can get peace and prosperity in the society of animals?
"Whether it is done, or whether I shall get tomorrow, any food?" Bha. In this way, at the end, ma, mṛtyu. This is called pa pha ba bha ma-pavarga. So to take to religiosity means to get out of this pavarga. Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya. Not pavargyasya. Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya na arthāya upakalpate. We go to temple or church or mosque to get some material benefit: "O God, give us our daily bread." The Christians pray like that. And the Hindus, they also pray, go to some demigod, or Kṛṣṇa. Mostly they go to demigod, especially to Lord Śiva, because Lord Śiva's name is Āśutoṣa. If you please Lord Śiva, it is very easy. He's very easily satisfied. And whatever you want, he gives you: "All right, take it." Therefore, generally people become devotee of Lord Śiva, because easily pliable. Viṣṇu is not so easily pliable.
We have begun this discussion about dharma. We have several times described dharma, the constitutional characteristic. That is called dharma. So people have taken dharma for sense gratification. Just like generally people go to the church or temple for asking some material gain. That is beginning, beginning of God consciousness.
Therefore, when human being becomes irreligious, without any religion, then it is no better than the cats and dogs. Dharmeṇa hīnaḥ paśubhiḥ samāṇaḥ.
So civilized human being must have religion. But religion does not mean to develop or improve economic condition. Generally people go to church, to temple, to express some awful condition, ārtaḥ jijñāsuḥ. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna. What is the next life? Ārto arthārthī jijñāsur jñānī ca bharatarṣabha (BG 7.16). Four classes of men in the beginning take to God consciousness if they are pious, sukṛtinaḥ. Sukṛti means pious. One who does not act sinfully, he is called sukṛti. And one who acts sinfully, he is called duṣkṛtina. So Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that four classes of men, namely ārto arthārthī, if he is pious and if he is distressed, then he goes to church or temple—"My Lord, I am distressed. Please give me some help"—prays to the Lord.
And ma. Ma means mrtyu. So in this way, struggling—pa, pha, ba, bha, ma—that is called pavarga. So here it is said, dharmasya hy āpavargyasya. Apa. Apa means just to make nullified this life of pavarga. That is, means, liberation, to come to the original position, spiritual life. Dharmasya hi āpavargyasya na arthāyopakalpate. Not that you go to church and temple and pray to God, "God, give me some money. I am in distressed condition. Please..." God can do that. It is not very difficult. He is doing already. The birds and beasts, they do not go to church or temple, but they have no problem. They are living very happy. So that is not the aim of life. The aim of life is how to regain our God consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and love Him. Because we do not love God, therefore we have been obliged to love māyā, Satan. This is our present position.
This is our present position. Therefore in this chapter, in beginning, is sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharma yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). There are different types of religious system, but that type of religious system is first class which teaches the follower how to love God. That is first class, not to go to the church: "Give me my daily bread" or "Please minimize my troubles of life. Give me some money." No. This is also good. Because one has gone to God, so he is in touch. Some way or other, he has gone to the fire. Then, if he keeps there, it will be warmer, warmer. But those who are duṣkṛtina, they do not go even to the God. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamaḥ (BG 7.15). So they are better than. One who goes to the church or temple and prays to God for minimizing his distressed condition, he is better than the atheist who never goes to God, because this man will get chance to understand God some day.
You cannot dictate to the court that "Sir, give me this judgment." No. That is not possible.
Similarly, here it is indicated that religion... What religion? Religion should be to disentangle you from this material miserable condition-dharmasya hy āpavargyasya na arthāyopakalpate. Not that you go to church or temple and ask for some material benefit. No. That is not the... Na arthasya dharmaikāntasya. Arthasya. We are earning money by some occupation. That's all. Then what is the purpose of this money? Now, if you are dharmic, dharmaikāntasya, if you are actually religious, then your money is not meant for sense gratification. Na arthasya. Dharmaikāntasya. Kāmo lābhāya hi smṛtaḥ. Not for your sense gratification. You should know that this money, excess money you have got, it is God's money, because in the Bhagavad-gītā we learn, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ (BG 5.29).
That's all. This is material life. And apavarga means just the opposite, to nullify this pavarga business.
So here it is said, dharmasya hi āpavargyasya. Religion means to how to get out of these pavargas. That is dharma. Bhāgavata says, dharmasya hy āpavargyasya na arthaḥ arthāya upakalpate. Generally, people go to church, to temple, for some material benefit. Therefore śāstra says, "No, no. Dharma is not meant for that purpose." People have become materialistic more and more because, just like in our country, "If you want economic development, then why you should go to temple?" The communist theory is also like that, that "If you want material happiness, why you are going to church and accepting, 'O God, give us our daily bread'? The bread, you manufacture. You just work for it." In one side, it is good. But this is also fact, that without God's mercy, you cannot get even bread. Although bread you can manufacture, but the ingredients of the bread, the wheat, that is not in your hand.
Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya na artha upakalpate. Not for economic development. Don't go to the church, can't go to the temple for your economic development. Although in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, ārtaḥ arthārthī jñānī jijñāsuḥ, catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna: "Four kinds of men, those who are ārta, distressed, arthārthī, in need of money, they come to Me." That is also good. But that is not the meaning of dharma. Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya. You have to execute religious system only to get out of the entanglement of this pavarga. That is the purpose. Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya nārthaḥ arthāya upakalpate. Not for economic development. In our Vedic literature you will never find these things, that economic development.
So we have already discussed that religiosity does not mean to gain material gain. We have already discussed, just people go to the church: "God, give us our daily bread." Or, even in temple, they go to ask something, material gain. But actually religiosity's not meant for that purpose. Religiosity is meant for dharmasya āpavargyasya. To enter into life of religiosity means to get out of the threefold miserable condition of life, apavarga.
So then dharma—artha, money also we want. Arthasya dharmaikāntasya na kāmo lābhāya hi smṛtaḥ. We want money. That's all right. But not for satisfaction of our lusty desires. Money has got its use. Just like in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we get money also. But we are spending for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Nāmno balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. One must give up for good all the propensities for sinful activities. Then take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and it will act. Otherwise, if you go on keeping both the lines, that "Whole day I shall commit all sinful activities, and at night I shall chant..." Just like in Christian church, there is a system, confession at the end of the week. They go to the church and they confess before the priest, "I have done so many sinful activities." So pray something and he says, "All right, excused." Again, from Monday, he begins sinful activities. Yes. Not like that. Once you stop sinful activities, you cannot commit again. Then Kṛṣṇa will save you. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). Kṛṣṇa is not so fool that you simply once surrender to Him and then commit sinful activities and again surrender to Him.
Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānām. Not that weekly once go to the church. No. Twenty-four hours, satata-yuktānām, engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are teaching people how to become twenty-four hours engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. This is our business. We don't allow karma, jñāna, yoga. No. Simply. And that is kṛṣṇa-bhakti. Jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam (CC Madhya 19.167). There is no question of jñāna and karma. That is not pure bhakti. Pure bhakti means anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam, ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (Brs. 1.1.11), simply to serve Kṛṣṇa favorably, as Kṛṣṇa becomes pleased. This is bhakti. This is pure devotion.
Therefore at the modern age the educated public, they are not interested in religious life because they think that in primitive stage the people were taking to religious life for economic development. Actually, that is the idea, because ordinarily people go to ask for bread in the church: "O God, give us our daily bread." So modern advanced in science people, they think: "Oh, what is the use of asking bread in the church? Why not take to industry?" That is their aim. In India, especially, this is the situation. The government is thinking that Indian people, being too much religiously inclined, they have fallen down economically; therefore these religious sentiments should be stopped completely. It is not encouraged. Here in Vṛndāvana so many pilgrims, they come from all parts of India; now all parts of world, they're coming. But it is kept in such unclean state to discourage people not to come here.
That time is coming gradually. Already the time is there. People are not at all interested in God's business. In your Western world all the churches are vacant. Nobody is interested now in church. Especially in Europe, we have seen... In your country also. So people are being degraded, godlessness. Because godless means animal. What is the difference between animal and man? The animal cannot be instructed anything about God. It is not possible for them to understand. But a man, however degraded he may be, if he is trained up, he can understand about God. Just like five years ago, you did not know about Kṛṣṇa. But because you are being trained up, because you are human being, therefore you are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
A sidelight. People take... Just like, "All right, yes, we accept God. But we cannot devote our whole time for God. We shall go weekly once or fortnightly once, or one hour in a day, partial. Our business is another. We want to enjoy sense gratification, and we shall go to church or temple just to ask God to supply our ingredients of sense gratification: 'Oh God, give me this. Give me this. I am poor man. I am this. I am this. I am suffering. I have got some disease.' " But still Bhagavad-gītā says that they are sukṛtina. Because they go to temple or church asking God something, because they are accepting that "There is God who can satisfy our needs," therefore they are sukṛtina. But those who are duṣkṛtina, miscreants, they don't believe in God. Then where is the chance of asking God, "Please give me this, give me that"? Because they don't believe in God. Therefore they are duṣkṛtina, atheist.
In comparison to such person, those who go to the temple or church, ask something from God, they are better. Because they are accepting. They have at least come to God. Now, gradually, they will be purified, and at a time they will say, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce (CC Madhya 22.42), "No. No more. I have no demand." What demand? If one gets Kṛṣṇa, then what is the question of demand? He gets everything. Everything. There is no question of demand. So that stage is perfect. So, (reads commentary) Anudita-prāyam anukta-prāyaṁ vimalaṁ bhagavad-yaśo vinā yenaiva dharmādi jñānenāsau bhagavān na tuṣyati(?) Śrīdhara Svāmī gives note that if you become a rigid religious person, that does not mean (chuckling) God will be satisfied with you. That is preliminary stage. Dharmārtha-kāma-mokṣa (SB 4.8.41). If one religious man... But that is not the qualification.
That is meditation.
Tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ. The next stage, Tretā-yuga, by offering sacrifice. That is in the second age. And dvāpare paricaryāyām. In the next age, Dvāpara age, by temple worship, church worship. So Lord Caitanya says that kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva. Three times. Three times "no." That means meditation is not possible, sacrifice not possible, temple worship or church worship not possible. Then what is possible? Kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt. In this age, simply by chanting the glories of the Lord, Hare Kṛṣṇa. These are prescribed. Therefore Lord Caitanya, you see, He is preaching this cult, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa... There is no distinction whether you are in church or temple or mosque. You simply vibrate Hare Kṛṣṇa wherever you are, at home or in temple or anywhere. Or in the street or in bed, or in hospital or in office, you can chant. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa.
What is the defect in me that, in spite of my so advancement of knowledge in spiritual science by studying..., by inquiring, and by writing so many books, the..." You'll be glad to know that this Vyāsadeva is the original writer of Vedānta-sūtra. You have heard about Vedānta-sūtra. There are many, I mean to say, classes in here in your Los Angeles. There is a Vedānta Church. This Vedānta philosophy was written by this Vyāsadeva. But after even writing this Vedānta philosophy, he was not satisfied. That is the conversation is going on. Sa vai bhavān veda samasta-guhyam upāsito yat puruṣaḥ purāṇaḥ. "Now I am asking you what is the defect in me because you know the Supreme Personality of Godhead."
Now, in other words, Vyāsadeva agrees or accepts that he knows Brahman, the Absolute Truth, but he does not know the Absolute Truth's ultimate feature, the Personality of Godhead. That he admits. Absolute Truth in the beginning is impersonal. Just like the example, the sun.
"Well, I have got a disinfectant method, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Therefore I can go on committing these four principles of sin, and I'll be (dis)infected." Just like in the Christian church they go, confess. That's all right. Confessing is disinfectant. But how is that you again do it? What is the meaning? You go to church, confess. That's very nice. Now your sinful activities is neutralized. That's all right. But why you are committing again? What is the answer? Hm? What will be the possible answer if I ask any Christian gentleman that "You are committing sinful activities, all right, confessing in the church before Lord Jesus Christ, he's representative, or his representative, or God. Your sinful activities all neutralized, excused. That's all right. But why you are committing again?" What will be the answer?
The... Just like the play, pleasure hunting place for the crows is never accepted by the swans, similarly these kinds of literature...
Now you try to understand how Nārada Muni is chastising his disciple like Vyāsadeva, that "You have created some literature which will be enjoyed by the crow class men." You see. Just see. He compiled Vedānta-sūtra. Still, Nārada Muni chastised him that "Your composition will be liked by the crow class men, not the swan class men." You see. Yes. Actually, you will find... So many so-called Vedānta philosophers. The Māyāvādīs, they are called Vedantists. The Ramakrishna Mission here, they are also preaching Vedānta philosophy. They are called... Vedānta Church there is in Los Angeles. And in New York there is a Vedānta... What is that?
That's all right. But that will not help very much."
The idea is that one has not only to understand little about God, but one has to live in God. Then his life will be successful. Not that "Yes, God is great, and I go weekly in the church or in the temple. I offer my respect." No, that will not make you liberated. You have to be very serious to understand your relationship with God and go back to Godhead. Then your life will be successful, not that simply by understanding little. No. That is the same position. Just like you cannot derive any benefit or you cannot sit down very nicely in a tottering ship, so if you keep your life always tottering... That tottering, that stage, or, I mean to say, what is called, tilting stage of life can be stopped only by devotional service, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Evaṁ prasanna-manaso bhagavad-bhakti-yogataḥ (SB 1.2.20).
One is going punctually to the church or to the temple and executing all ritualistic ceremonies very rigidly, following the rules and regulations. But at the end if he has not developed love for God, then, Bhāgavata says, śrama eva hi kevalam: "This is simply laboring, formalities." Caste priest, caste gosvāmī, caste spiritual master—simply a formality. But the objective is not Kṛṣṇa. Objective is material happiness. That sort of religiosity or following the regulative principle will not help.
So Vyāsadeva says, jugupsitam: "This is abominable, because if you simply stick to that principle... You are authority. People will understand that this is religion, nothing more." Na manyate tasya nivāraṇam janaḥ, yad-vākyataḥ. Nanu yad pravṛtti-mārga nindate 'tha nivṛtti-mārge sarva-kriyā-tyāgena parameśvara-sukhasya rūpe anubhuteḥ kiṁ tad yaśaḥ-kathānenāpi tatrāha vicakṣaṇaiti, vicakṣaṇa ati-nipunaḥ kaścid eva nivṛttitaḥ sarva-kriyā-nivṛttya, asya bibhaḥ sukhaṁ nirvikalpaka-sukhātmākaṁ svarūpaṁ vedituṁ jñātum arhati.(?) One may be very expert in the matter of executing religious performances, but that does not mean he can be elevated to the spiritual platform.
Similarly, if our anchor, that we want this material happiness, for which we can worship God, we may go to the temple, go to the church, offer our respect... Ārto arthārthī. That is accepted as good. But one has to go far above that position. That means if one, being distressed, approaches Kṛṣṇa, that "My Lord, I am in distress. Please help me," the qualification is good in this sense, that he, somehow or other, he has approached God. But his motive is not pure. His motive is material enjoyment. So Vyāsadeva says, "This kind of instruction in your book will not help people to come to the standard of pure devotional service, which can save him from all material bondage." That is the whole purport. Then what is to be done?
Generally they have got private temple, all rich men. Now they are not constructing. Just like in your country, those who are rich, now they are not constructing any churches. They... Everywhere, people are losing interest in religion. But in formerly, say, even twenty-five years ago, both the Hindus and Mussulman, if one becomes rich, immediately he tries to construct a temple or a mosque. I have got personal experience. When I was doing medical business, one Muhammadan... His name was Abdullah. He was supplying me bottles. So he was very poor man, but by making business in bottle supply he became rich. So one day I asked him, "Abdullah, you have got now money. How you are going to utilize your money?" So he said, "Bābājī, masjid banāyange(?)" He said that "My dear sir," that, "I have got an intention to construct a mosque."
So he said, "Bābājī, masjid banāyange(?)" He said that "My dear sir," that, "I have got an intention to construct a mosque." So people, either Christian or Jew or Muhammadan or Hindu, formerly they were religious and, according to their faith, they used to construct either synagogue or church or mosque or temple all over the world. Now they have lost interest. You see?
So to get birth in the family of a pure brāhmaṇa means he gets the association. Because in a brāhmaṇa family or a rich family the worship of Kṛṣṇa is there. Every brāhmaṇa family, according to Vedic culture, must worship Nārāyaṇa, every brāhmaṇa family. If he is not worshiping Nārāyaṇa, then he's rejected from brāhmaṇa family. That was the stricture. And śrīmatām. Śrīmatām means rich family, very rich family. So every rich family had a temple, private temple.
You can say, "What is the use of bhakti? Why shall I waste my time, come in the temple and hear about Kṛṣṇa?" Actually they are doing that. Nobody is coming. Such a big temple. Of course, there are many temples they are going, but in other places also people have lost interest, all interest. Either temple or church or mosque, they do not go. Therefore they are surprised. In America the Christian priests are surprised because they are closing their churches. In London I have seen hundreds of churches are now closed. Nobody is going. If there is meeting, only the caretaker and few old ladies go. Because why they will go? That's a fact. And actually churches are being sold. It is not lying propaganda. Anyone, English boy, he'll confirm this statement. Yes. People are losing interest. So here it is said that bhaktir utpadyate. The bhakti can be awakened. It is not an artificial thing. If it was artificial thing, why the English and American boys.
If it was artificial thing, why the English and American boys... They had nothing to do with Kṛṣṇa, they never heard in their life about Kṛṣṇa. How... This is admitted by the Christian priest, that "These boys, they are our boys, and formerly, before this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, they never came to church, never inquired about God. Now how it is that these boys are mad after God?" They are surprised. And it is actually surprising. Why? Because the bhakti is there. It was not awakened by the so-called leaders and the priests. It was not awakened. Religion means to awaken that Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is religion. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That is religion. Religion is not formalities and ritualistic ceremonies.
Of course, Kṛṣṇa is very kind. If you are engaged in kṛṣṇa-bhakti sincerely, if by mistake you commit some sin, that can be excused. But if you purposefully commit sinful activities, you'll never get Kṛṣṇa's approach. That is a great... Nāmno balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. That is very great offense, that I am a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, and... Just like the Christian people go to church, that "I am a devotee of Christ. I can do any nonsense, and on Sunday I shall go, I shall admit, 'Yes, my Lord, I have done this.' " "All right. Excused." Then? Then I'll do again tomorrow." This is not wanted. That is pāpa-buddhiḥ, that "Somehow or other let me be atoned today, and from tomorrow I shall begin my business. And again I shall come Sunday." This is pāpa-buddhiḥ. Such persons are never excused, but they do not know. But by mistake or by chance, unknowingly if we commit some mistake, that is excused. Sapada-mūlaṁ bhajatāṁ priyasya.
They say sometimes "idol worship." "And we have been instructed to dress Him, to give Him..., all botheration." Then finished. Finished. That has come everywhere. I have seen in Nasik in many, many big temples there is no pūjārī, and the dogs are passing stool. Not only they're breaking. In Western countries also the churches are being closed-big, big churches. In London I have seen, very big, big churches, but they're closed. When there is meeting on Sunday, the caretaker, two, three men, and some old lady, they come. Nobody comes. And we are purchasing. We have purchased several churches. Because it is now useless. It is useless. In our Los Angeles we have purchased and several others. In Toronto. That recently we have purchased.
It is useless. In our Los Angeles we have purchased and several others. In Toronto. That recently we have purchased. Big, big churches. But they would not sell us. One church, the priest said that "I shall set fire in this church, still I shall not give to Bhaktivedanta Swami." (laughter) This Toronto church was like that also. And in Melbourne, the condition was, sale condition was, that you have to dismantle this church building. We said, "Why?" He said, "Utilize as temple now, then we shall not give you." They refused. You know that? So they do not like that "This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will purchase our churches and install Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Deity." They do not like that. But it is not(?) going on.
So not only the churches in the Western countries, here also. As soon as you will lose the spirit of service, this temple will become a big go-down, that's all. No more temple. So we have to maintain that service spirit. Therefore we are so much particular—"Why fresh flower is not there?" If you think, "Here is a stone statue. What is the meaning of fresh flower or old flower? We have to give some flower. That's all." But no feeling, that "Here is Kṛṣṇa. We must give fresh flower." Just like I'm a living man, if you give me a fresh flower, and if you bring some garbage, and if you give me, shall I be pleased? Do you think? So this feeling is losing even in the beginning, that "We shall satisfy this statue with some rubbish, garbage flowers.
That is not. It is quite natural that if you have done something criminal by mistake, then you can be excused by the authorities. But not that because by your admission you were once excused, and you'll go on committing all kinds of sinful activities, and you'll be excused simply by admission. No. That is not possible. The Christians they do like that. On Sunday they go to the church, and they admit their sinful activities of the week, and pay something fine to the priest, and they become free from the sinful activities, reactions. And from Monday, again he begins. And then again on Sunday, he admits.
"One who is engaged in My unalloyed service," avyabhicāreṇa, "no adulteration, pure devotional service..." Māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena sevate, one who is engaged in the service of the Lord, purified, unalloyed... Unalloyed means no motive, no motive. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). Other motives, completely zero. Generally, they go to temple to church, to..., or mosque, generally, they go with a motive. Just like in the Christian world, they go that "God must be order supplier. We shall pray to God, and He must supply. Then I accept God. This is the condition. And if He does not supply my order, I don't care for this God." So they are not going to become servant of God. They want to make God his servant: "God, give us our daily bread." That's all right. God is giving daily bread. Why you are asking, bothering God? He is supplying food to millions and trillions of living entities, and why not to you? He'll also supply.
"God, give us our daily bread." That's all right. God is giving daily bread. Why you are asking, bothering God? He is supplying food to millions and trillions of living entities, and why not to you? He'll also supply. That is not our problem, that God will supply our bread. He is supplying without asking. Do the animals go to the church and ask for bread? But they are getting sufficient. They are getting sufficient.
Therefore God consciousness does not mean any motive to take from some God, something from God. That is not God consciousness. You give everything to God. That is God consciousness. Just like the conception of accepting God as child. That is better conception (than) to accept God as father, because from father we simply take away: "Father, give me this, give me that, give me that, give me that." And if you accept God as child, then you have to give everything.
Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He can supply everyone as much he wants. He's supplying food to the elephant. He's supplying food to the ant. Why not to the human being? But these rascals, they do not know. They're working day and night like ass to find out bread. And if he goes to church, there also: "Give me bread." They are only bread problem. That's all. Although the living entity is the son of the richest opulent person, but he has created his bread problem. This is called ignorance. He thinks that "If I do not solve my bread problem, if I do not drive my trucks day and night..."Whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh. whoosh. Such a nonsense civilization. You see. Bread problem. Where is bread problem? Kṛṣṇa can supply. If He can supply food to the elephant in Africa... There are millions and millions of African elephants, you know, and they are supplied food.
That is not possible. Their feeling, spiritual feeling, is lost. They cannot feelingly address because they do not know. "Oh, this God is for poor man. They cannot have sufficient food. Let them go to the church and ask: 'Oh, God, give us our daily bread.' We have got enough bread. Why shall I go to church?" This is their opinion. Therefore nowadays, in the days of economic development, nobody's interested in going to the church or temple. "What this nonsense? Why shall I go to the church for asking bread? We shall develop economic condition and there will be sufficient supply of bread."
Just like Communist country, they do so. The Communist country, they make propaganda. In the villages. They ask the people to go to the church and ask for bread. They, innocent people, they ask as usual: "Oh God, give us our daily bread."
The Communist country, they make propaganda. In the villages. They ask the people to go to the church and ask for bread. They, innocent people, they ask as usual: "Oh God, give us our daily bread." Then when they come out of the church, these Communist people ask: "Have you got bread?" They say: "No sir." "All right, ask us." And then they ask: "Oh Communist friend, give me bread." And the Communist friend has taken a truckload of bread: "Take, as much as you like, take. So who is better? We are better or your God is better?" They say: "No sir, you are better." Because they have no intelligence. They do not inquire that: "You rascal, wherefrom you have brought this bread? Have you manufactured in your factory? Can you manufacture grains, the ingredients of bread, in your factory?" Because they have no intelligence.
That is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta that: "Somebody wants Me. At the same time, he wants material prosperity. He's a fool. He's a fool." Therefore people are very much afraid, coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "Oh, my material prosperity will be finished." Because they want, don't, do not want that. They want to stick to... Generally, they go to church, go to temple for material prosperity. "God give us our daily bread." This is material prosperity. Or "Give me this, give me that." But they're also considered as pious because they have approached God.
The atheist class, they do not approach. They say: "Why shall I approach God? I shall create my wealth, by advancement of science, I shall be happy." They are duṣkṛtinaḥ, most sinful, one who says like that, that: "For my prosperity, I shall depend on my own strength, my own knowledge." They are duṣkṛtinaḥ. But one who thinks that "My prosperity depends on the mercy of God," they're pious.
The whole world, civilized world, they have got some religion-Christian religion, Muhammadan religion, Hindu religion, Buddhist religion, and many other subordinate religions. Under the groups of Christian, there are so many churches-Protestant, Catholic. In the Muhammadans, they have got Shiya, Suni, Sek,(?) so many. In Hindus also, Vaiṣṇavas and Śāktas and Sauras, Gāṇapatyas, so many. But Kṛṣṇa says that "All of them, seeking after Me." Mama vartmānuvartante pārtha sarvaśaḥ: "Everyone, they may go on under different religious systems, but the aim is how to approach Me." Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15).
Therefore He is addressed as namo mahā-vadānyāya, the topmost charitable personality. He is giving kṛṣṇa-prema.
So the process is there. And actually it is so happening all over the world. How the Christian priests are surprised that "These boys, these Christian boys or these Jewish boys, they never came to the church. They did not inquire even what is God. Now they have left everything and they are mad after God. How it is po... How it is?" Because we have adopted the process enunciated by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu; therefore it has become easier. Otherwise, to understand Kṛṣṇa only, it will take millions of years, simply to understand Kṛṣṇa. And what to speak of becoming lover of Kṛṣṇa? If I do not understand you, I cannot become your lover. You... We cannot love an unknown person. Is it possible? You must know him.
Therefore I say that the Christians, they're also Vaiṣṇavas; the Muslims, they're also Vaiṣṇava, very, mean, lower stage, because they're offering prayer. Yad-vandanam. They offer prayer: "O God, give us our daily bread." They do not know very much, but the beginning is there. Beginning is there because they have approached... Catur-vidhā bhajanti māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna. That going to the church or going to the mosque, that is also pious activities. One day they'll come out pure Vaiṣṇava, one day. But that beginning is good. But atheism—"Don't go to church. Don't go to temple. Don't go to mosque"—this propaganda is very, very dangerous to the human society. Something do... Try to understand. That education, that a child is sent to school. Let him learn simply A,B,C,D. It doesn't matter.
"Let me commit some sinful activities, and in the evening I shall chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. It will be all right," no. No. no, that is the greatest offense. Out of ten kinds of offenses, that is the greatest offense. Nāmno balād yasya hi. Don't take to that process, confession. Just like the Christians do. They go to the church and confess. Suppose one confesses—"That's all right"—and again does the same sinful activities. Then what is the value? Accept... Why accept? It is fact. If you confess before the Lord, just as, "My Lord, out of my ignorance..." The sinful activities are done out of ignorance. Not that by planning that "I shall commit sinful activities, go to the church and confess. Then everything is nullified. Again begin, new chapter, sinful activities." That is not ignorance. That is by knowingly, knowingly taking advantage of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.
This is called responsible king. How much they are thinking. And similarly he was thinking for the children.
Naturally... I have sometimes told you that we have got one Godbrother, German. He said that in the last war, in the first war, which started in 1914, so all the men were killed everywhere. And the women, they went to the church, either as wife or as sister or as daughter or as mother. Naturally, they prayed for their relatives to come back. But who is coming back? They were all dead. So they became atheist, that "There is no God." Because they prayed for their relatives to come back... So that is our position. We want to worship God if He becomes my order-supplier. "I will order and He will supply. Otherwise there is no God. I don't care for this nonsense God. He must satisfy my senses. I want this, and You must satisfy." Just like the Communists, they ask people in general to go to the church, and they say, "Now pray." So the Christian prayer, "O God, give us our daily bread."
So common men, they think that bread is coming from these rascals. But actually, bread is coming from God. So because God could not supply the bread in the church, they become Communists. This is the position. They take God as some solace, what is called, opium? Opiate. Yes. When there is no other source... And the whole over the world, they do not know, actually, what is God, what is our relationship with, what is God's function. That you will find only in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That we can say very proudly. What is God, what is the philosophy, what He is doing, what is His name, what is His address, what is His father's name—we know everything. (laughter) That is our position.
We have got everything to give You and we have no need to ask You. This is gopīs' worship.
Generally, they worship God, needy ārtaḥ arthārthī. Ārtaḥ means diseased, arthārthī means in need of money. People generally go to church (or) temple when they are suffering from some ailments or need of money, these two classes. Another two classes, jijñāsuḥ jñānī. Jñānī means who is after pure knowledge and jijñāsuḥ means inquisitive—what is the nature of God. These are, they are higher section but they are not bhaktas. Just like there are many philosophers, they also talk of God, but they are not bhaktas. But because they are talking of God, they are getting some benefit. Just like if you handle with fire, you perceive some warmth automatically.
"During the whole life, whatever sinful activities I have done, now I leave it here, and I become purified." That's a fact. One becomes purified. But the ordinary man, he does not know how to keep purified life. Therefore again comes back home and again commits the sinful activities. And sometimes again he may go. Just like in your, the Christian church, they go to the church weekly, and they, what is called, atone, atonement. So this kind of business is not very good. Once purified, you remain purified. So when the holy places of pilgrimage become piled up with all the sinful reaction of common man, a saintly person when he goes there, he makes the holy place clean. The holy place becomes unclean due to the common men's coming there and leaving their sinful reaction. So holy place becomes overburdened with the sinful results of other people. But in that holy place, when a devotee goes, then again the holy place becomes cleansed. This is the idea. Bhavad-vidhā bhāgavatāḥ.
Other worshiping method you have to collect so many things, then you can worship. Or you must have temple, you must have church, you must have worshiping place. But Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. And you can collect this patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalam anywhere. You can worship Kṛṣṇa anywhere, but you have to learn how to worship. What is that learning? Bhaktyā, that is the method. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). This patraṁ puṣpam is not important thing. The important thing is bhakti, devotion. That is wanted. Without bhakti, if you offer Kṛṣṇa very big plate, Kṛṣṇa is not hungry to take your food. He'll not accept it. He'll not accept anything if you do not offer with your love, bhaktyā, love and serving spirit: "My dear Kṛṣṇa, You are so opulent.
Man has got some institution, some social structure, religious structure, political structure. Otherwise what is the difference between animals? The animals, they haven't got any president or senate house or parliament or church. That is the difference.
So this varṇāśrama-dharma means one has to accept these principles of varṇāśrama-dharma and act accordingly. A brāhmaṇa should act accordingly to brāhmaṇa principles. Satyaṁ śamo damas titikṣā. The kṣatriya should act accordingly. The vaiśya should act according. The same example, as we have given many times, that I have got my head department, arms department, belly department, and leg department. To keep the body fit, everyone should act very nicely. Brain should work nicely, arms must be strong, belly must be fit to digest foodstuff, and legs must work. Similarly, these things...
Similarly, āyuḥ, bodily strength. Everyone can understand. Your forefathers, your father or grandfather, as they were bodily strong, you are not so, I am not so. So bodily strength will reduce. Memory will reduce. Duration of life will reduce. Then dharma... There is no question. It is almost reduced. Nobody is interested in religion. The churches, temples are being closed, locked up. This was a church. Where we are sitting, this was a church, and it was sold, because nobody was coming. Similarly, we are purchasing in Australia a very big church. They are selling. In London I have seen many hundred of churches. Nobody is going there. Not only churches. In India also, except a few important temples, ordinary, small temples they are being closed. They have become habitation of the dogs. So dharma, religiosity, is reduced. And truthfulness. And kṣamā, forgiveness. That is also reduced. We are very sorry that one thing has happened. He was excused, but again he was shot dead. Just see. No forgiveness.
Perfection, highest perfection: to become dear to Kṛṣṇa. That's all. You become dear to Kṛṣṇa. That is your perfection, highest perfection, supreme perfection. So such easy thing, and such highest perfection. Why people should not accept this? And it is practical. It is... Just last night I was talking with Śrutakīrti that this church, nobody was coming. Therefore they were obliged to sell it off, and we purchased. So the church is the same, building is the same, and you are all Americans. But you did not come before, so that it was to be sold. Now everywhere it is packed up. Why? Because Kṛṣṇa is there. This is practical. This is practical. There is no question of enviousness. It is practical. In Boston one Christian priest said frankly that "These boys, girls, they are our boys, our girls. Either coming from Christian group or Jew's group, they are, after all, Americans. So they did not care for anything about God. Now they are mad after God. What is this?" This is practical. There is no question of competition.
He was mahā-bhāgavata. Mahīṁ mahā-bhāgavataḥ śaśāsa, ruled over, a great devotee. It does not mean a great devotee is simply engaged in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. No. A great devotee may be the chief of the executive function of the state. He can become. That is required. Not that only mahā-bhāgavata required in church or temples. No. Mahā-bhāgavata required also as the head of the chief executive function. That is also required. Otherwise how people will be happy? Every field, there must be mahā-bhāgavata. So my Guru Mahārāja used to say that when we shall see that the high-court judges are devotees of Kṛṣṇa, then our preaching will be somewhat forward. So that is the aim of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that everyone, at least those who are ruling, those who are on the executive function, they must be all mahā-bhāgavata. Under them everything should be ruled. Then people will be happy. Because they will never do anything unjustly.
That is recommended by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That is our ultimate goal of life. Premā pum-artho mahān. Premā pum-artho mahān. Everyone is attached to... Those who are human beings... Dharmārtha-kāma-mokṣa (SB 4.8.41). The karmīs, they want to be religious. They go to temple, church, for some material benefit, "O God, give us our daily bread." That is their purpose. But still, that is accepted. So in this way, we have discussed many times. The jñānī... Who is mahātmā. That is the subject matter here discussed. So jñānī, the mahātmās are to be found not amongst the karmīs, but of the jñānīs, jñānī field. Just like in India, we manufacture some mahātmā. But according to śāstra, he is not mahātmā because he was-Mahatma Gandhi, I mean to say—he was not on the platform of knowledge. He was on the platform of karma, karmī. He wanted to deliver his countrymen from the clutches of the British, Britishers.
If God is everywhere, now why not in the temple? What the temple has done? If God is everywhere, then in the temple there is God. You may call Deity worship as idol worship, but this situation created by Deity worship, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, practical... This was a church. This was a church. How many years ago? Since when we have occupied? Four years ago. And because nobody was coming, so this church was sold, and we purchased. Now why people are coming? The church or temple, if there is no God, so why people are coming? The same church. Because you could not convince them about the science of God. Therefore it was vacant. You cannot bluff all people for all the time. That is not possible. You must give them substantial. Then they will agree, "Yes, there is God."
The instruction is that when one is distressed, everyone remembers God. Yes. Duhkhse saba hari bhaje. Saba means "all." At that time... Just like in the last war, Second..., last war, when everything was in danger, Mr. Churchill started this movement B(?), and they were all going to churches—when the situation was very grave. And in Germany especially, because war was very, going on very seriously, so there was no men, so all the women, they went to the church and pray God, somebody... Woman means husband, son or father... Prayed, "Let my father come back" or "Let my husband come back" or "my son." But nobody came back. So they became atheist. This is the version of my one German Godbrother friend. So he said that all of them became atheists. Why? They prayed so much to get back their husband or son or father: nobody came back. "Then there is no God." This is their conclusion. That means, "God is our order supplier. God is our servant."
"Because my heart is always merged into the ocean of Your glorification, I have no problem." This is the devotee. Everyone goes to God to mitigate some problem, that "God, give us our daily bread." That means bread is a problem, and... That is the general tendency. They go to temple, church, to mitigate some problem. And as soon as the problem is finished, they forget God. No more church, no more temple. You see? That is not devotion. Devotion is that "No problem. I am ready to serve You, my Lord." That is life. No problem. We should not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness or saṅkīrtana to solve some problem. No. That is not pure devotion. When you will feel that "There is no problem. I am chanting, glorifying. So I am becoming merged into the ocean of bliss," that is life. That is the symptom.
We have to surpass this material principle, then come to the spiritual platform. That is sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam... Sarva-dharmān (BG 18.66). This is also dharma. So just like people are engaged formally. Their temple, church, is sometimes, simply formality. Real, their real business is how to satisfy their senses. "If for satisfying my senses I'll have to pose myself as a religious person, so let me do that." That is their religion. But that is not religion. Real religion is no sense satisfaction, simply to satisfy the Supreme Lord. That is real religion. Therefore (s)he says, bhavān hi veda tat sarvam.
So as somebody, anything, they require four legs... Just like this platform, it has got four legs. Animal stands on four legs. Anything, it requires four pillars.
This is the greatest rascaldom, sinful activities. Yes. Nāmno balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. Pāpa-buddhiḥ. Nāma... By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra we become immediately sinless. That's a fact. But why shall we commit again? Just like the Christian people, they go to the church, confession: "Sir, I did this, all these sinful activities last week." "All right, pay me something." Again, from Monday, beginning sinful activities; come on Sunday. These are not allowed. You can be excused, but don't do again. If you continue to do it, that is not very... Then you have to suffer. Once or twice, you may be excused. But if you continue to do that, you must be punished. Nāmno balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. (indistinct question by devotee) Yes, everything under the direction of the spiritual master. Why you are asking? (indistinct) You do not know these things? Why do you ask this question? It must be, according to the direction of the spiritual master. Why do you ask that question?
"This rascal will do. All right, do it at your risk." Anumantā upadraṣṭā. And He remains witness: "Because you have done this, now you suffer. Now you suffer."
The Christian parties, they do not believe in karma. So in our childhood, when we were student in Scottish Churches College, Calcutta, we had to attend the Bible class. So one professor, Dr. Urquhart, he said that "If I am suffering the result of my past karma, where is the witness that I have done this bad or good?" But he had no knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā. We also at that time did not know. We were not very interested. But later on, when I read Bhagavad-gītā, "Here is witness, upadraṣṭā anumantā. Here is witness." Perpetual witness. Not only of this life, but many, many lives past, He knows everything. Vedāhaṁ samatītāni vartamānāni (BG 7.26). He knows everything. That is Kṛṣṇa.
Even one method, if you perfectly do, you'll become perfect. You'll be transferred to the spiritual kingdom. So we do not say that "This religion is good," "This religion is bad." In every religion there is some form of worship out of these nine. Just like in Christian church there is offering of prayers. We also offer prayer, and that is also recommended in the list: vandanam. Vandanam means offering prayers. Muslim also, they offer prayers in the mosque.
So generally prayers offered in every religious institution. But so far we are concerned, we not only offer prayers, but also hear about Him. And what we shall hear about Him unless He has got activities? Just like you hear in the newspaper the activities of the general people. Similarly, if we have to hear something, there must some activities. That activities we find in the Vedic literatures-immense, unlimited activities. There are eighteen Purāṇas, you'll find activities of the Lord.
Therefore in the human society, in the civilized human society, there is acceptance of religious principle. Maybe it is Hindu religion or Muslim religion or Christian religion or Buddha religion, but there is some religion. A civilized society is not without religion. Without religion means animal society. The animals, they have no religion. Cats and dogs they have no church, no temple, that they have to go. It is for the human beings. Therefore śāstra says that dharmeṇa hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. If in the human society there is no culture of religion, then it is animal society. It is not human society.
"We shall vote for Kṛṣṇa conscious leader," then there will be happiness.
Just like Pṛthu Mahārāja, the king. We were discussing. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement comprehends all sides of life. It is not that a stereotype "churchianity," weekly going to the church and come back and do all. No. It is embracing all sides of our life. But the only aim is how to go back to home, back to Godhead. So we have to educate these classes of men, śva-viḍ-varāha-uṣṭra-khara, these class of men: dogs, hogs, camels, and the asses. The world is full of these classes of men, and you have to educate them. Your responsibility is very great. You have to make an ass a devotee, a camel a devotee, a dog a devotee, a hog a devotee. This is your mission. Next.
That is required. Vairāgyam. This is called vairāgyam, or renounced. Because we want this material body, therefore we get it, life after life. This will continue so long we'll be overpowered by material thought.
Material thought means these fruitive activities. "I shall work very hard, and I shall get so much wealth, and for this purpose I can go to church and temple. If God gives me millions of dollars, then I am ready to go there." So real purpose is sense gratification. "If I take to religious principles, then I'll get more money without any hard work, and if I get more money, then I'll be able to satisfy my senses." This is called dharmārtha-kāma. And there is another stage, which is called mokṣa, liberation. So people are not interested for liberation. They want to become religious for material benefits. But that is not the real purpose of life. Material benefit, you cannot get more than what you are destined to have; that is already fixed up. According to your body... You get the body.
This idea, not that God is limited to produce only one son. Why? God has unlimited sons. He is unlimited. If an ordinary man can beget hundreds of sons, just like Dhṛtarāṣṭra... There are many instances..., Ṛṣabhadeva. So why God should be restricted to beget only one son? I asked this question in church to some Christian priest, that "God is limited or unlimited?" He said, "Unlimited." "Then why you are restricting, limited one son?" He could not answer. You know that? Why you are limiting? He is unlimited. The ordinary person can beget hundreds of thousands. Why God, unlimited, He should be restricted to one son? The interpretation should be... Anyway, that Tulasī dāsa says that if he is devotee, then he is son. Otherwise it is urine. The God has begotten many sons... Just like... The only worthy son was Jesus Christ—you can interpret it like that—because he was giving service to the Lord, to the father. He brought the message of father.
Ārtaḥ arthārthī, those who want some money; jijñāsuḥ, those who are inquisitive; and jñānī. So ārto arthārthī, they are in the lower grade. And jñānī and jijñāsuḥ, they are in the higher grade. But still, they are not pure devotee, because they want something. Ārtaḥ, the distressed, he comes to Kṛṣṇa in the temple or in the church to beg something, material profit. That is also good because he has come to Kṛṣṇa. "Kṛṣṇa, I am distressed. Kindly save me from this distressed condition." "Kṛṣṇa, I require some money. Kindly, if You give me some money, I can live very peacefully." Generally. So because they have come to Kṛṣṇa, therefore they are called sukṛtinaḥ. Sukṛtinaḥ means pious. And there are others, who are duṣkṛtina, impious, sinful. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). They are not even human being who do not accept the authority of the Supreme Lord. Duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ. And they have been described as mūḍhāḥ. Mūḍha means rascal, foolish. Real meaning of mūḍha is ass.
Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu says in His prayer, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4). This is the position of devotee. Generally karmīs, they want something from God. They go to temple, they go to church, for begging something: "I am distressed. I have no money. Kindly give me some money." "I am hungry, give me my daily bread." "Give me," something "give me." So this so long we are on the platform of "give me," you will never be happy. You will get it. If you go to God and ask Him, "God, give me my daily bread," so it is not very difficult for God to give you bread. He is giving bread to everyone. Why not to you? He is giving bread to the elephants, He is giving bread to the ants, and what you can eat?
Influence of time, and then vanish. So even in religious movement, if there is materialistic motive, then it will deteriorate. It will not stand. So beginning of religious life should be without any material motive. Pure devotion means anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ (Brs. 1.1.11), no material motive. Generally, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, people go to the temple and the churches or any religious..., synagogue, with a material motive. Ārto arthārthī. Generally they are in need of money or they are unhappy somehow or other, and they go to God, Kṛṣṇa, or according to their religious principle, and pray for material benefit. But that is also accepted as good, because they are approaching Kṛṣṇa, or God. But that is not pure devotion. If such material motive continues, then he will fall down from that devotional service. Because as soon as his distress is mitigated, he will think that there is no more need of worshiping. Naturally he forgets. Just like rich man.
They are. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido (SB 1.5.18). The śāstra says that "Don't bother yourself about the necessities of life. This is already there, settled. You will get it. Depend on the supplier of the necessities of life. The supplier of necessities, life, is God." That is the description in the Vedic literature. Therefore we see practically that Christians, they go to church and they request God, "O God, father, give us our daily bread." Actually it is supplied by Him. So there are 8,400,000 different forms of life, and God is the creator of them, and He is supplying all the necessities of them. We human being, we have got different enterprises, but what the enterprises have got the elephant in Africa? There are millions of elephants. Who is feeding them? And the ant also. There are trillions and millions of ant in your room. Who is feeding them? So we do not believe in God. That is our defect. Otherwise, if God is providing food for the lower animals, why not for us if we become God conscious?
What is that austerity? The austerity is to follow the rules and regulations by which one can elevate himself to the spiritual platform. That is required. In human... Either you practice yoga or haṭha-yoga or jñāna-yoga or dhyāna-yoga or karma-yoga or... Everything is yoga. As I explained last night in the meeting in the church, that yoga is one staircase to reach to the perfection of spiritual realization, and there are many steps. Just like haṭha-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, jñāna-yoga, there are many steps. But the perfectional stage is bhakti-yoga. The perfectional stage is bhakti-yoga. That should be the aim of life. But people do not know it that what is the aim of life. The aim of life is self-realization and to understand and to know and to reestablish our lost relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That should be the aim of life. Therefore it requires tapaḥ. Tapaḥ means voluntarily accepting some penances. Just like I am inclined for sense gratification, and tapasya means voluntarily avoid too much sense gratification.
Oh, that is ceremonial. Yes. When you offer something to Kṛṣṇa in the temple, the system is that you offer with bell. That bell offering worship, even in Christian world there is bell, church bell. So that is system everywhere. Only in Muhammadan religion they don't allow any sound. Yes. But in Hindu religion or in other religion there is sound. Sound vibration. Our whole process is sound vibration. The Muhammadans, they offer silent prayer. That is also prescribed in devotional service.
Prabhupāda: No, you should not approach for exploiting God. That is not good. But even if you go to God to exploit Him, that is also good. (laughter) Stop, stop. Because after all you are approaching God. Even with the purpose of exploitation, that is not good, but because you are reaching God that is very good. Just like in Christian religion we know that the prayer is "God, give us our daily bread." So God is supplying bread to everyone. It doesn't require to ask Him. But, he, because he is going to the church, and praying to the God, he is very good.
Jyotirmayī: She says that to ask like the Christian asking for their daily bread, it is something very difficult, very painful, so it is very tragical.
Prabhupāda: No, these things are done by innocent person. One who does not know that God, without asking, He's supplying. There is no need of asking from God. Simply we have to render our service. The definition of devotional service is given in the Vedic literature, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ (Brs. 1.1.11), without any material desire. Serve God as a matter of duty. We serve our father as a matter of duty and the father takes care of the son, automatically. (break) ...does not serve father, he gives all necessities of life and what to speak of that son who is rendering service. (break)
Prabhupāda: Yes, gambling means betting. That is gambling. People are betting. You put one dollar, and if you gain, you get ten dollars. Otherwise, you lose this one dollar. This is gambling. They're gambling in Christian churches also, in the Western countries. So gambling is considered sinful activity. I do not know... One Mr. Bhattacarya, a barrister, he was educated in England. So he told there is some island, Monte Christo? There is gambling?
Devotee: Monte Carlo.
Prabhupāda: Monte Carlo, yes. He said that there are gamblers, and one gambler loses everything, he commits suicide, immediately, and he'll go on. That's all. Nobody cares for him. He told me. It is a fact? So just see the gambling.
Guest (4): Will the Swami give another service in the Arlington Street Church any time in the future?
Prabhupāda: Arlington?
Jadurāṇī: Are you going to be there again, he wants to know.
Prabhupāda: Arlington Church? Yes, I was there.
Guest (4): Will you be there again some time in the future?
Prabhupāda: That, if you arrange, I can go. I am at your service. I have dedicated my life for this. Whenever you call me, whenever you invite me, I can go anywhere. Why Arlington Church? I can go to any place. Because it is my duty to give you, to deliver you this message of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Bhagavad-gītā. That is my duty.
Then what is the use of solving problems? The real problem is there. But if you want to solve this real problem, then you should take up this nivṛtti-mārga. Nivṛtti-mārga means stop this way of sense gratification and take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the way. If you continue your misbehavior, at the same time you want to cure your disease, that is not possible. Just like this alcoholic treatment. They go to the psychiatrist and so experienced... After all, if you do not give up this bad habit, then where is the question of treatment? Where is the question of treatment? That is called... That is explained in the śāstra, hasti-snāna. The example is very right. Hasti-snāna. Hasti, hasti means elephant. Elephant, they go into the water, in the lake, in the pond, and very nicely cleanse their body. Body very nicely cleansed, and after taking bath, as soon as it comes to the bank on the ground, he takes some dust and throw over the body. So atonement... Sometimes we make atonement. I have committed some sin. I go to church or go to temple. I make some atonement. Then after finishing that business, again I do that business. So this kind of habit will not help you.
So here Parīkṣit Mahārāja is advised, yathā puraiva. Yathā evaṁ tasmāt pāpasya niṣkṛtau prāyaścitta yateta kadā mṛtyu puraiva. So prāyaścitta. If you want to be free from the reaction of the sinful activities in this life—exactly in the same way as Christian Bible advises that you have to make some atonement, go to the church and confess your sinful activities and pay some fine—exactly in the same way in Vedic scriptures also, that "Before death you must make some atonement; otherwise you will continue in your next life." Tasmāt puraivaṣv iha pāpa-niṣkṛtau yateta mṛtyor avipadyatātmanā (SB 6.1.8). "Before you meet your death, that you should take." Doṣasya dṛṣṭvā guru-lāghavaṁ yathā. And you have to make atonement according to the gravity of your sinful activities. Yathā bhiṣak cikitseta rujāṁ nidānavit.
And Christians also think like that, that "I may commit sins throughout the whole week, and on Sunday I shall go to the church and confess it. It will be counteracted." So this defective conclusion of the human society is interrupted here by the question of Mahārāja Parīkṣit, that
- dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyāṁ yat pāpaṁ
- jānann apy ātmano 'hitam
- karoti bhūyo vivaśaḥ
- prāyaścittam atho katham
- (SB 6.1.9)
So people, they know that "There is resultant action of this kind of sinful activity." He knows. Even if he does not know, he sees. Just like a man who has stolen, committed theft. One sees that he is arrested or he is punished, he is put into the prison, and still, he commits stealing. He knows.
Still, karoti bhūyo vivaśaḥ. Vivaśaḥ means automatically. He has been habituated. Automatically he commits the same sin, vivaśa. Prāyaścittam atho katham. Then, if he remains always a victim to the sinful reaction and if he is habituated to do that, so artificially this kind of confession in the church or giving some bribe to the bhaṭṭācārya, what is the meaning of this? It is practical question. If the man is habituated to commit sinful activities throughout the whole week, what is the use of his going to the church and confessing and give some bribe or... You take in any, any field. So it is very intelligent question. There is practically no use. If you remain a thief always, so for your theft you are put into the prison, and as soon as you get out of the prison again you commit theft. He knows that "I shall be again put into the prison." Still, he commits the same thing. Actually there are many thieves.
At least in India I have seen. Their business is stealing, and they are put into the jail, and as soon as he comes out, again commits the same thing and put into the jail for many days.
Himāvatī: Swami, many people also think that "If you're sinful, how can church help you? What is the use of going to church?"
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you... That will be discussed. This is the point. This is being discussed. It is not the... It is not the question of atheism. Their point is "What is the use of going to the church?" But the use is that if he goes to the church, if he actually hears about, I mean to say, glorious life, to become devotee, to understand God, then the utilization of going to the church is all right.
Their point is "What is the use of going to the church?" But the use is that if he goes to the church, if he actually hears about, I mean to say, glorious life, to become devotee, to understand God, then the utilization of going to the church is all right. But if he goes with that spirit that "I shall go to the church and my sinful activities will be counteracted by giving some bribe and going to the church. Then it is very good..." But his motive is different. Churchgoing is not for that purpose. That is a facility.
Just like we are preaching, "You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12)—your sinful activities will be counteracted. Kṛṣṇa says that 'You just surrender unto Me and I shall give you protection from the sinful acts.' " So if I think, "It is very good.
Don't have illicit sex, don't drink, don't do this, don't do this. So you must take it in that (indistinct). Whatever you have done, that is no disqualification. That will be squared up. But not that on the strength of your Kṛṣṇa consciousness you'll do again. So these people are misunderstanding that "Church is giving me some facility that 'All right, whatever you have committed, that you confess. It is excused.' " But if the church and the people make a business that "All right, throughout the whole week let me commit all kinds of sins and on Sunday it will be all counteracted..." Yes?
So there is no value of this question of the atheist. They do not know what is the meaning of going to the church or going to the temple or church or spiritual master. That is a foolish question. The church does not allow. But if the church does not disclose this fact, that "Oh, I see every week you come. What is this nonsense?" But the priest, they get some money and they want to continue their church business to get some money. So this is going on, cheating and cheated. Therefore the society has become the full of cheaters and cheated. So the cheating cheaters are not encouraged. If in the church or if anywhere, in the court, they are all full of cheaters and cheated, then what can be done? But either the court or the church is not meant for that purpose, that they will excuse the sinners every week without questioning and without giving him full, nice instruction that "You cannot do this."
Prabhupāda: Their income will be lost. So therefore they are cheated and those people who are thinking that "I have gone to church and my priest has excused me. I have confessed," this is cheating. That's all. Actually the purpose is different.
Revatīnandana: The priests are all driving Lincoln-Continentals. All the priests drive very expensive automobiles. They're all dressed very nicely and they have very big cars, Catholic priests. They get so much money for forgiving sins.
Prabhupāda: They get money?
Revatīnandana: Yes, in Europe they used to sell indulgences. For a certain amount of money you get a certain indulgence.
No, no, no. That is different. This is a different Das. So so many cases, I know, in the legal take bribe. They take bribe. Therefore it is called Kali-yuga. The whole atmosphere is surcharged with vicious condition, anywhere. You go to the court, you go to the church, you go to the priest, you go to the so-called spiritual master... The time is so vicious. You see? The only rescue is to become sincere to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then one is safe. Otherwise the whole atmosphere is very dangerous. That's all. (devotees offer obeisances) (break) There are nice birds. Cuckoo.
This life is a preparation for the next life.
So here Śukadeva Goswāmī says that if one does not atone his sinful activities... That is prāyaścitta vidhi, according to Vedic culture. In Christian also they have got prāyaścitta, confession. Confession, the Christians are supposed to go into the church and confess the sinful activities and pay some fine and then he becomes free. But that free, that excuse can be done once, twice, thrice, not perpetually. It is not possible. Suppose if you have done something wrong, and if you go to the court and say, "Sir, excuse me. I did not know," the court may excuse you one time, second time, but not for the third time. Third time you will be severely punished. So these people who are thinking, "By going to the church, by confession, I become free from all sinful activities, and then let me go again, commit the same thing for the whole week, come again and confess," this is not very good business.
All your necessities of life will be sufficiently supplied. There is no question of asking.
Therefore intelligent devotee they do not ask like the unintelligent devotee go to the church and pray to God, "Give us our daily bread." He's God's servant, and He will not get your bread? You have to ask from God? No. God is giving bread to the eight million other living entities. Birds, beast, tigers, elephants, they are not going to the church for asking bread. But they are getting it. So if God is supplying everyone's food, why He shall not supply you? He is supplying you. So we should not go to God for begging some material benefit. That is not actual devotion. We shall go to God for begging how one can be engaged in His service. That should be the begging: "Hare Kṛṣṇa," means... Hare means "O the energy of God and Kṛṣṇa.
That's a fact. But don't accumulate again the sinful activities. Then you are safe. If you take it as an instrument: "Now let me commit sinful activities and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," then that is very dangerous. You will never be excused. Just like sometimes the Christians do. They go to the church, make some atonement, and again does the same thing next week, and again goes to the church, again atonement. This is not good. If you make atonement for your sinful activities by some process—just like we are prescribing this process, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa—surely your sinful reaction is nullified. But don't commit it again. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He delivered Jagāi-Mādhāi. They were very sinful. Sinful means they were born in a respectable brāhmaṇa family, but by bad association they became drunkard, woman-hunter, cheater, and plunderer, like that. That is sinful.
One is karma, the other is jñāna, or yoga, and the other is bhakti. So first of all Parīkṣit Mahārāja was tested by Śukadeva Gosvāmī whether he is satisfied by the karma-kāṇḍa, or fruitive activities. Fruitive activities means that "I have done something wrong. So I go to the church and make some atonement and finished; then again I do." This is karma-kāṇḍa. Just like somebody has done something criminal. He says, "All right, never mind. I shall go to the court and pay some fine. That's all." So this is karma-kāṇḍīya-vicāra. And nowadays, even karma-kāṇḍīya vicāra, they are also not accepted. People have become so foolish. This karma-kāṇḍīya vicāra, means action and reaction of the fruitive activities, they also do not believe that. This is the lowest grade. So here it is answered that "If you want to be saved from the sinful reaction of your life and put into the hellish condition, then you have to do like this." Tasmāt purā eva āśu iha pāpa-niṣkṛtau.
So many grades, because the modes of material nature are different, different mixture.
So here it is said that doṣasya dṛṣṭvā guru-lāghavaṁ yathā (SB 6.1.8). Doṣa. Still people in India, they go to a bhaṭṭācārya, that "Sir, I have done this sinful activity. What is my atonement?" Amongst the Christian also, they go to the church. So guru-lāghavaṁ dṛṣṭvā. Guru means heavy. We use this word guru. Guru means heavy. So according to the criminal activities Just like a man has stolen some fruit from a fruit shop, his criminality is not equal to the man who has committed murder—one he has killed one man. This is guru-lāghavam. So there is punishment according to the heaviness and lightness of criminal activities. The example is given here: bhiṣak cikitseta rujāṁ nidānavit. Just like you go to a physician for treatment of your disease, he gives different types of medicine. Not that one medicine for everyone. No.
That is his question. It is not that a man always commits sinful activities without knowledge. No. They have full knowledge. So if one does, cannot resist himself from sinful activity, then what is the meaning of this atonement? He rejects, "This is useless." You commit some sinful activities and go to the church and pay some fine, and again you commit sinful acts. So it is useless. That is questioned by Parīkṣit Mahārāja. Prāyaścittam atho katham: "What is this?"That is intelligence. He is devotee. He knows that this kind of atonement is useless. It has no meaning.
"Sir, you have spoken about atonement, but they are doing atonement. Every moment they are suffering, but still, again he is committing the sinful activities. So what is the use of this atonement?" Just like in the Christian church they go to confess every weekly, "Sir, I have done it." "All right, give some fine." And again, next week, again, the same thing going on. So this is very intelligent question. The atonement is there in every religion. In the Vedic process there is atonement, but what is the use of this atonement if he does not cease committing the same sinful activity? Just like practically we see a thief. So he knows that "I am committing theft. I shall be punished if I am arrested." He knows it; otherwise why he goes silently at night and break? He knows it well that "If I am arrested I will be punished."
So it is Parīkṣit Mahārāja. He is very intelligent devotee. He is criticizing this atonement process—"Whole week I have done all sinful activities, and on Sunday I go to church and pay some fine, and again, from Monday, I begin my business." Punaḥ punaḥ, again and again. So this business will not help us, because the..., I may commit some sinful activities, and repenting, I pay some fine or some prāyaścitta, but my heart is not cleansed. That is required. The heart is filled up with all dirty things. What it will give me benefit if formally I give some fine as atonement? Parīkṣit Mahārāja is rejecting this process, "This will not help." And he has given very good example: kuñjara-śaucavat. From nature we can study so many things, very instructive.
"What benefit will be there? He remains unclean. He does not cleanse his heart, core of heart." In the core of heart he has got all the dirty things: "How I shall cheat, how I shall make black market, how I shall enjoy senses, how I will go to prostitute and drink." These things are packed up. So simply by going to the temple or to the church and make some atonement, it will not benefit. One has to take seriously to this method, saṅkīrtanam. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-davāgni-nirvāpaṇam (CC Antya 20.12). The first installment is that you cleanse your heart. The next installment is bhava-mahā-davāgni-nirvāpaṇam. If your heart is cleansed, then you can understand what is your position in this material world. And with a dirty heart, you cannot understand. If your heart is clean, then you can understand that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul. So what I am doing really for me? I am spirit soul. I am not this body. I am soaping over this body, but as I am, I am starving." This is going on.
You haven't got to do anything. And kīrtanam also. Hearing means somebody is speaking and others are hearing. There must be somebody chanting. Just like I am chanting, I am speaking—you are hearing. So śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. And as soon as we hear and chant, we remember also, smaraṇam. The vandanam, offering prayers. Everyone goes to the temple, to the church, offers prayer. That is also bhakti. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam (SB 7.5.23). Then arcanam. Just like these boys and girls are engaged in worshiping the Deity. That is called arcanam. Vandanaṁ dāsyam: to become servant of God, to cleanse the temple, to work for God, for Kṛṣṇa, dāsyaṁ. Sakhyam, to accept Kṛṣṇa as friend. Ātma-nivedanam, and offering everything to Kṛṣṇa. These are nine items. You can accept nine, eight, seven, as you like, as you can conveniently, either the whole nine items or one, two, three, four—any.
Even one priest in Boston, he was astonished that "These boys, Christian boys or the Jewish boys, they are our men. And they did not care to know what is God, what is... Now they are after God. They are mad. How it is?" There are many practical proof. Just like in our many temples. The Los Angeles temple, it was sold by the church because nobody was coming. Nobody was coming. We have many churches purchased in that way. Now you will see in Los Angeles it is always packed up. So we did not bring all these men from India. The men are the local men, and the church is the same church. Why they are coming? Why they are taking interest? So this is the effect of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy. He is personally being merciful. He is distributing, Kṛṣṇa Himself. Therefore so quickly. So if we keep ourself in the right way of executing Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it will be possible—even in this very life we shall be perfect. Perfection means tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9).
"As others make some money by working hard, by professional or by doing some business or working, so we shall also earn some money by showing the church or temple or the mosque." They have taken it like that.
Therefore people have lost faith in religion. This is the reason. Because those who are in charge of the religious department, the brāhmaṇas, those who are in charge of religion, the priestly order or the maulanis (?) or the brāhmaṇas, they're the same order, their duty is to keep people enlightened in the real mission of life. That is their duty. But if they're also doing the same thing, sense gratification, how long they can cheat others? Therefore people have lost faith in religion.
This is not yoga. These all bluff. Real yoga system is to find out within the heart where is God. My business is that I've forgotten God. The karmīs, they..., karmīs, real karmīs, they do not forget. The upstarts, the rascals, they forget. Karmīs also... Just like they go to church or to go to temple, they ask some favor from God. Ārto arthārthī jñānī jijñāsuḥ. Catur-vidhā bhajante mām. In the Bhagavad-gītā everything explained: four kinds of men begins God consciousness. And what kind of man he is? Sukṛtina, one who has background of pious life, not the rogues and rascals. Little pious activities one has done. Ajñāta-sukṛti. So far everyone has got some charitable disposition of mind, in that disposition of mind, if by chance he gives to some Vaiṣṇava some money, that becomes a credit.
He does not know that "I am getting some..." Of course people, they pay to saintly person, brāhmaṇa, that datavyam iti yad dhānam: "Here charity should be given." So that charity goes into his credit. Catur-vidhā bhajante mām sukṛtino 'rjuna—those who have got background of pious life. So even one goes to the church, "God, give us our daily bread," he's not ordinary person. He's pious man. He has gone to God to ask. He has not gone to anyone. No. "My Lord, I'm very poor man. I have no money. Kindly give me some money." That also accepted. Of course, he should not be foolish, that "God is giving me everything without asking, so why should I bother God, asking?" That is advanced devotion. Therefore pure devotee, they do not ask anything from God. They simply want to give service. "Why should I ask? God knows my necessities."
I am very much pleased that you are worshiping Deity very nicely, gorgeously. But in India you will find there are so many temples. Of course, it requires the energy. Otherwise here also, there are so many churches. Now they are being closed. This church, this was a church. Now it was closed. There was no customer. And now it is filled up. Why? The same church, the same men, the same spot. It is due to real knowledge. So if you go on simply opening centers, if there is no knowledge then it will again become a closed church someday. So don't do that. Before opening a center you must have perfect worshiper, perfect devotees. Not perfect; at least those who are willing to become. Then open. Otherwise, simply chant. Kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt. That will never be impaired. Anywhere you chant, you will be successful, anywhere.
So they do not believe also in the fruitive activities' resultant action of our past life. This very word "witness"... It is my personal experience. I was student in the Scottish Churches College, and we had to attend half an hour Bible class. So Dr. W.S. Urquhart, he was teaching, Reverend W.S. Urquhart. He said, I remember, that "Where is the evidence? The Hindus believe in the karma, but where is the evidence that I did it?"
The answer is here, that... We may not compare our inefficiency with the arrangement of the Supreme Lord. Now, God has kept so many witnesses. How you can escape? Here is a name, list of witness. Sūrya first of all—the sun. So how you can escape Sūrya's light? You cannot escape. So here is one witness. Then Agni, fire. Then Kham, the sky. Where there is no sky? Here we are sitting; there is sky.
Who are they? Ārto arthārthī jijñāsuḥ jñānī, four classes. One who is distressed, he goes to God: "Sir, I am very much distressed. Kindly give me relief." Arthārthī, one is poor, he also goes, provided he is pious. The impious, they'll "Uh, what is God? I will do it." Just like the Communists, they say, "You are poor, so why you are going to the church? Beg from us bread." And poor men, they beg, and they give many breads, and they become atheist: "Well, we are getting from the Communist leaders bread. Why shall I go to church, 'God gives us, give me'?" But because they are poor, poor in knowledge, they do not know that the bread is coming from the Communist factory. It is coming from God, the wheat. That is not manufactured in the factory. But they have no intelligence. They think that "Our Communist friend, he is giving me bread."
These two things, if carried, then your both the life,(?) the śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam, the one who is speaking and one who is hearing, both of them are benefited.
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is opening so many centers just to give people opportunity to hear. To hear. So I am very glad that this church... This was a church, and nobody was coming here, and therefore it was sold to us. Now... You are all belonging to America, Los Angeles, and the church also was there. Now why it is crowded? It is not that you are imported from India to hear about Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) So if there is substance, they will hear. If there is no substance, who will hear? That is the difference. So substance is here. Ataeva kṛṣṇa veda-purāṇa karila. You hear these Vedas and Purāṇas and make your life successful.
These are... Īśa means His name, His form, His attributes, His, so many things. You see? Nāma, rūpa, rasa—everything is Īśa. So this temple means to give chance to people for associating with Īśa, with Kṛṣṇa. So therefore, according to Vedic civilization, everyone is advised to go to the temple. Still people are going to the church, to the temple, to the mosque, to the synagogue. Why? Īśa-saṅgāt, īśa-saṅgāt, just to associate with God. That is the purpose. So if you actually search after Īśa, Kṛṣṇa, or God, you can get it. There is arrangement. Just like this temple. This temple, if you come, if you make association with this temple, immediately you will be benefited by hearing the glories of the Lord this, every subject matter pertaining to God. We are reading Bhāgavatam or Bhagavad-gītā. That is also Īśa. Because these are the words of Īśa, therefore, Īśa being absolute, there is no difference between His words and Him.
Here it is said, na niṣkṛtair uditair brahma-vādibhis tathā viśuddhyaty aghavān. Just try to understand that this direction cannot purify the sinful man so nicely because the same man who has confessed that "I have committed these sins," he again comes out of the church and again commits the same sin. Therefore he is not purified. He is not purified. Here it is said, na viśuddhyaty aghavān vratādibhiḥ. It is not only in Christian religion. In every religion there are some prescribed method that... Accepting as a matter of fact that every man is sinful, therefore in religious scriptures there are certain methods to purify them. But here the Viṣṇudūta says that these prescribed methods, although they are authorized and fact, but they cannot purify the heart of the follower of that religion.
Arcanam means the offering ārātrika, offering bhoga, cleansing the Deity room and dressing the Lord, changing the flowers. These are called arcanam. Vandanam. If you cannot do this, then offer prayers. Just like in Christian church they offers prayers. That is also bhakti, devotional service. The Muslims, they offer prayers. Any way. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam, arcanaṁ vandanam. Vandanam means offering prayer. Dāsyam. Dāsyam means to work as menial servant of the Lord. Dāsyam. Sakhyam, to make friendship with the Lord, just like Arjuna did. He treated Kṛṣṇa as his friend, and by making friendship with Kṛṣṇa he became liberated. Sakhyam. And ātma-nivedanam. Ātma-nivedanam means giving everything to the Lord, even his body, wealth, and everything, just like Bali Mahārāja did.
Generally, people understand eating, sleeping, mating and fearing. That is the lowest grade of life. A little higher grade of life, they try to understand about some religious principle, and they are generally become religious for some gain, some material gain. Just like in the churches or in the temples they go. They ask some benefit from God, "O God, give us our daily bread." Or somebody goes to temple, asks some benefit. So dharma, artha, kāma. Why they ask some benefit? Now, just to satisfy their senses, that's all. They have no other aim. Dharma artha kāma and mokṣa. And when they are dissatisfied or frustrated in sense gratification, then mokṣa, they want to become one with God. So dharmārtha-kāma-mokṣa (SB 4.8.41). These are the general demands. The lower class of men, they are simply demands of the body, something eating, something eating, defending and mating.
Don't wait for your old age." Generally, people think that "When we shall become old, we shall take care of becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious or God conscious or go to the church or temple. At present, let us play and enjoy life." So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "No." Kaumāra ācaret prājñā. Prājñā means intelligent. Intelligent means who does not waste time. Time is very valuable. You are American people. You know very well how to utilize time. But time is very valuable is also accepted in Vedic civilization. There is a very nice verse in Cāṇakya śloka. You just see how much time was considered as valuable. By this verse, you will know. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says Cāṇakya Paṇḍita was a great politician. He was sometimes prime minister of the emperor of India.
That's all. Similarly, if you are philosopher, very expert in mental speculation and writing volumes of books, speculative, but if you can prove that there is God, then your philosophy is perfect. Any line you take.
Suppose you are a businessman. Formerly, in any part of the world... We have seen in your country, in my country. There are many old churches, old mosques, old temples. In India there are temples just like a fort. Acres of land occupying big, big temples. So who has constructed these temples? Must be rich men, businessmen, landlords, princely order. Why? Because they wanted to satisfy God. Either you manufacture, either you construct a church or temple or mosque, it does not matter. The idea behind is that he wanted that he has labored so hard, he has accumulated so much money, "Let me spend something for God." But at the present moment there are so many skyscrapers, but nobody is constructing a nice church. This is the result of godless civilization.
He was Muhammadan. Just see his mentality, that he wanted... He accumulated some money, but now he wants to satisfy God constructing a big temple or constructing... You'll find in India some old temples. There are so many nice workmanship in stone. That means spent thousands and thousands of dollars. In here also I find so many nice churches, they have been spent by persons. What is the idea? The idea is anyone who has got some money, he wanted to satisfy God. So it doesn't matter what you are doing, but the test of your success will be considered as successful if you try to satisfy God. Because we are, whole life, we are dragging from God. "God give us our daily bread," and God is supplying daily bread. Otherwise, where you are getting bread? You say, "I am purchasing from the market." Oh, where the storekeeper got this wheat?
That love of God should be without any motive. Motive means generally we go to temple, church, with a motive. "God, give us our daily bread." Or somebody goes to temple, comes here, "Kṛṣṇa, I am in need of this thing. Kindly give me." This is also good because he has come to God. That is confirmed in this Bhagavad-gītā:
- catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ
- janāḥ sukṛtino 'rjuna
- ārto jijñāsur arthārthī
- jñānī ca bharatarṣabha
- (BG 7.16)
If one is in need of some money or need of some material necessities, and if he begs or if he prays to God, "Please give me," he's also considered as pious. But real religious system is to understand that God is great, I am His servant, I am supported by Him, it is my duty to serve Him. This is religion.
So in higher status, a devotee sees everybody as temple of God, because the God is there. So this should be also practiced. As we respect a temple or a church, similarly, we should give respect to all living entities. Harīḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu bhagavān ananta īśvaraḥ. Bhagavān ananta. If some foolish person says how God can be in every..., within everybody? No, He is ananta, He is unlimited, He can be, that is His omnipotency. Bhagavān ananta īśvaraḥ, iti bhūtāni manasā kāmais taiḥ sādhu mānayet. In this way, we should offer respect to everyone. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says, amāninā mānadena, give respect to everyone and for yourself don't expect any respect. One may insult you, don't mind, but you give respect to others. Just see how bhakti-yoga is perfect.
In the beginning stage, he offers respect to the Deity in the church or in the temple or in the mosque, according to different religious conceptions, but he has no idea who is actually devotee, and what is his duty towards others. He does not know. This is the first stage. But he has got good faith in religion and in God. That is the beginning.
The second stage is that,
- īśvare tad-adhīneṣu
- bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu ca
- prema-maitrī-kṛpopekṣā
- yaḥ karoti sa madhyamaḥ
- (SB 11.2.46)
The intermediate stage is that he sees four things: īśvara, the Lord, the Supreme Lord, and then His devotee, tad-adhīne. Tad-adhīna means one who has accepted subordination of the Supreme Lord.
They wanted money. "What is this? Go to... Your national feeling go to hell! You pay us. Then we work." So nobody has any faith. Simply he has faith in sense gratification. That's all. "You satisfy my senses. Then you are very good. Otherwise, go to hell." That's all. This is the position. And therefore they are denying the topmost head of Catholic Church, "We don't care for your instruction," because they have become faithless. And that is not their fault. It is fault of the heads of the churches. They did not teach them properly. They were satisfied simply by money. That's all. They did not try to teach them. Now what is the use of teaching? They have gone out of hand. The same thing: if you want to bend bamboo, do it while it is green. And when it is dried, oh, it is not possible. So now the whole society is faithless, godless, very precarious condition. So this process, our process, we don't impose any difficult rules and regulation.
That has happened actually. Because the Pope, he was not strong enough in the beginning... Because some other Pope, he thought, "It may be unpalatable," he did not speak the truth. Now the other Pope is speaking the truth. They are not accepting. But from the very beginning the priests should have preached in every church, "My dear Christian brothers, you cannot use these contraceptive methods." They were never told in the churches. They were satisfied to get fees. That's all. Everywhere, not only in the Christian world. In the Hindu, in Christian, they don't care for any rules and regulations any more. But they profess that "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muhammadan."
One can satisfy the Lord simply by love and devotional service. Why? Doesn't He not... Then why so much opulence is created in erecting nice temple or churches and so much money is expended? Does it not satisfy the Lord? Why they are spending so much money? The modern economist says that this is unproductive investment. Because if you construct a very big temple... Just like in India we have got many temples, especially in South India, each of them is just like a fort, very big fort. There is a temple in Raṅganātham, it is a few miles temple. There are seven gates. Very big temple. Many other temples. Similarly, in your country also there are many nice churches. I have traveled all over America, and I have seen very big churches.
There is a temple in Raṅganātham, it is a few miles temple. There are seven gates. Very big temple. Many other temples. Similarly, in your country also there are many nice churches. I have traveled all over America, and I have seen very big churches. Here also, in Montreal, there are many big churches. So why they are spending so much money, although the modern economist will say it is nonproductive investment?
So this church building or temple building or mosque building is coming down from time immemorial. People are investing their money, hard-earned money. Why? Uselessly? Nonproductive? No. They do not know. They do not know how much productive that is. Therefore in this godless civilization they have stopped building nice, decorated... In Vṛndāvana there is a temple of Govindajī that was seven-storied. Four stories was broken by Aurangzeb on political grounds.
"Whatever I can acquire, that is mine." This is wrong. This is called illusion.
Therefore we should try to give to Kṛṣṇa, not to ask. Because He has given us everything without asking. Without asking. We go to temple or churches to ask for our daily bread, but the birds and beasts, they have no churches, no temples, they do not ask. But how do they get their bread? Therefore according to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, there is no actually bread problem. The only problem is that we have forgotten our relationship with God. Whatever... Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido (SB 1.5.18). Therefore the instruction of Bhāgavata is, "Just try to revive your lost relationship with God, or Kṛṣṇa." That relationship is never extinguished, but sometimes it is covered. Just like a crazy boy forgets his father and mother and home, goes away.
Just like a child. He does not ask anything from his parents. The parents are careful to supply everything he needs. Similarly, God is already careful to supply our needs. Just like in the beast society, bird society, they do not pray. They haven't got any church. They do not go to the church to pray, "My dear Lord, father, give us our daily grains," but they are supplied without prayer. So that arrangement is already there. Therefore one who is intelligent, his prayer should be simply gratitude, that "My dear father, You have supplied the necessities of my life so much amply, I must be feeling very grateful. So these preparations I have made for You because it is Your goods. You have supplied these grains, so You kindly first of all take. Then I will take." So Kṛṣṇa-prasādam. This is Kṛṣṇa-prasādam, acknowledgement. So we are not prepared even to do that, neither we are prepared to follow the rules and regulation.
If we want to offer Kṛṣṇa something, then we must offer such things which Kṛṣṇa wants to eat. So we do not know, neither we care to know. We simply ask, "Oh, give me my bread or grains. Then my business is finished." No. That is the difference. But this man who is going to church or temple to ask for food is better than that man who has no connection with God, so much better that he has some relationship with God: "My dear father, You give me." At least, he accepts—"The father sends the bread." That is very good. But when the son will be intelligent, he will know, "The father sends the bread even without my prayer. Therefore I must offer my gratitude." That is intelligence. That is pure devotion. (break) Father is not only my father; He is father of all living entities. So He is supplying other living entities. They cannot offer any gratitude. The beast, the birds, they cannot offer any gratitude. But I am human being, I have got developed consciousness.
Therefore in every civilized form of human society there is some kind of religious activities. Unfortunately, religious activities have been misinterpreted. Just like any religious sect, either Hindu or Muslim or Christian or anyone, they go to temple or church to pray to God for some solution of problems. People generally think that "If I become religious person, then my economic condition will be very nice." In the Vedic way of thinking, in the material world, there are four stages of development. They are called dharma-artha-kāma-mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90), namely following the religious principles, economic development, sense gratification, and liberation. Just like in the Christian church, people go there to ask, "God, give us our daily bread." So dharma. People generally think that "If I become religious, then my economic condition must be very nice."
"You write on the bills, currency notes, 'We trust in God.' So what is that God?" Ask anyone. Will they be able to answer? No. It is simply formality.
Similarly, they have completely forgotten God all over the world. There is only little formality still. That also being... In your country, in Europe, so many churches are closed because no one believes in God. Here also I have seen in Nasik so many temples. There the dogs are passing stool and urine within the temple. Nobody goes. Because what there can be done? There are so many rascals. They are making propaganda that "Why do you go to temple?" Just see, here is a central place, it is inhabited by so many respectable persons, but they do not come to temple because there is regular propaganda that "God is everywhere. Why do you go to the temple?" "No, why God is not there in the temple?" You can answer: "God is everywhere—except in the temple?" Their propaganda is, "God is everywhere.
Generally we go to the temple for artha, some material gain: "O God, give us our daily bread." This is material gain, either bread or rice or something. It is also good because ārto arthārthī. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ janaḥ sukṛtinaḥ. Sukṛtinaḥ. Anyone who goes to the temple or church for begging bread, they are also good because they are coming to the temple. In that respect they are good. But one who thinks that "What is the use of going to the temple? God is everywhere. Even in the wine shop there is God. Let me go there instead of coming to the temple..." That is their philosophy. God is everywhere. He goes to the wine shop for realization of God. But to come to the temple is forbidden. This is their philosophy.
| Page Title: | Church (Lectures, SB) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 17 of Aug, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=151, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 151 |