Church (Conv. 1968 - 1973)

Expressions researched:
"church" |"churches" |"churchgoing" |"churchianity" |"churchtaker" |"ecclesiastical" |"ecclesiastics"

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Interviewer: Swami, will you get a little closer to that microphone, if you will. You are the head of ISKCON, the International Society for Krishna Consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interviewer: Is it a church?

Prabhupāda: It is not exactly a church, but it is an institution for understanding the science of God.

Interviewer: Could you tell people how you are dressed today, what's the significance of your clothes?

Prabhupāda: About the significance of our institution?

Interviewer: No, about the way your clothes, the way you're dressed today. Uh, the robes.

Prabhupāda: Oh, the robe? Yes, I am a sannyāsī.

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interviewer: Do you have any of the other things you find in the inside of churches?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, we have altars, we have pictures. We offer fruits, flowers, incense, and immediately, by combination of these things, there is some spiritual atmosphere, and there is chanting. So people enjoy it very nicely.

Interviewer: We're talking with Swami A.C. Bhaktivedanta, head of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. If you have questions our numbers are 478-3456, in the East Bay 832-9707, in San Jose 272-1233. (break) A.C. Bhaktivedanta, International Society for Krishna Consciousness. What does the word Kṛṣṇa mean?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is, means all-attractive. Kṛṣṇa.

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Yes, generally we chant this mahāmantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa, and then we deliver speeches from Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and then there are questions, we answer, and in that way the audience and the disciples they become enlightened and they advance.

Interviewer: But there's no sermon as we would know in other churches?

Prabhupāda: That is, you can call sermon, because there is prayer song and there is, I mean to say, recitation from scriptures...

Interviewer: Well, you have six chapters, so evidently you cannot be everywhere at once. Who is in charge of a temple when you're not here?

Prabhupāda: The students are being trained. The students, they also speak the same thing. There is nothing new. I also speak from the Bhagavad-gītā and the students also speak from the Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā is the same in all the centers. But it may be because I have little more experience I can explain them a little more nicely. And the students, they also explain according to their experience. But the principle is the same.

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: When I came, I came with some introduction letter. So my guests, they provided me.

Caller: Your guests provide you. In other words, you're a free-loader.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Caller: Why do you set up your church into an area like the Haight-Ashbury? Your so-called temple?

Prabhupāda: Our so-called temple?

Caller: Your so-called temple. Why do you set up a place like that in the Haight-Ashbury?

Interviewer: I'll rephrase it. I'm going to punch her out. Why is your church located in the area of the hippies?

Prabhupāda: It is not for particularly selected the hippies' quarter, but the boys they found a cheaper place in that quarter. Therefore they occupied that place.

Interviewer: Cheapest place you could find.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because we are not very rich institution. So we found it cheaper. So we selected it. It is not for the reason that because it is hippie quarter, therefore we selected it. No.

Room Conversation -- March 25, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Praṣṭhipāta, it is called in Bengali. They test gold. By rubbing on the stone, they can understand what is the value of the gold. In India they are simply keeping a stone like this, and you take something golden, and they will at once test by simply rubbing on it. So experienced. By the glazing of the gold they will understand what is the value of this. It is experience. But this stone is used.

Śyāmasundara: Marble?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, as soon as you get that church, all the gṛhasthas and brahmacārīs, they will have to bring money. (Laughter) Is that not right?

Devotees: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: There was one clergyman lecturing in a Sheffield coal-mine that, "If you don't worship Jesus Christ, then you will go to hell." So first of all one man asked him... First of all, the clergyman inquired, "Do you know Jesus Christ?" So they were silent. So one of them inquired, "What is his number?" They thought that "Jesus Christ must be one of us," I mean to say, workers in the mine. So he must have got a number. "So what is his number?" Then the clergyman could understand that "To whom I am speaking." So then he explained, "Oh, Jesus Christ is not one of you. He is son of God. He has come to deliver you. If you don't worship Him, then you will go to hell." Then one of them said, "What is hell?" Then he described, "It is very dark, moist, and so on." So they were silent, because they work in the mine. (laughter)

Talk After Lecture -- May 30, 1968, Boston:

Satsvarūpa: Swamiji? Can I make an announcement? Swamiji has said there are fifty important pilgrimage cities in India, but as far as we're concerned here, it's whatever city His Divine Grace is residing in. So right now it's Boston. And he will stay here so long as it's the best place to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So you have some taste for it. You can help us to keep Boston this city of pilgrimage. We need engagements for Swamiji. The universities will be closing... Well, some of them are almost already closed. But if you have any access to a nice engagement, a church or a club where people attend, please approach us and help us to spread in this way. Also we have a love feast here in the temple every Sunday at noon, and this is very sumptuous bhakti-yoga love feast with Indian delicacies that you'll certainly enjoy. So approach this way. We'll take collections at this time also. You can help us very solidly by putting in all that you can. Our next kīrtana is scheduled for Wednesday-Monday, Wednesday, and Friday—but it won't be, because it will be held at MIT instead in the student mezzanine lounge in the third floor at eight.

Prabhupāda: Wednesday there will be no meeting here?

Satsvarūpa: Yes, there'll be no kīrtana. That's the next engagement, May 8th. Also, does anyone have a car? Swamiji lives nine blocks away.

Prabhupāda: You have got a car? Thank you.

Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:

Śivānanda: No. In the correct position then, the temple would be the center of the community.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Temple is open for everyone. Let them come and sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, hear Bhagavad-gītā. We don't say, "Oh, are you potter? No. You are not allowed." We don't say that. "Are you cobbler? Oh, you are not allowed." No. We don't say that. Everyone is welcome. Come on. And what is the business? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Everyone can do it. And what is the next business? We read some nice philosophical portion from Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Yes. You have got ears. (shouts:) But the rascals are not coming! That is their rascaldom. Because they will go to hell. We are offering the greatest facility, but they are so rascals they are not coming. This is a rascaldom civilization. What is difficulty there? You come, sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, take nice prasādam, hear philosophy, see nice pictures, decorated Deity. What is the difficulty there? But their brain is full with rascaldom. They will go to cinema, they will go to hotel, they will go to some other thing, but they will not come to temple, or church, or anywhere where these things are being done. This is called Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means they are so condemned that they don't take facility of the highest benefit. They have been educated. They have been trained in such a way that they don't like this.

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Interviewer: What do you offer to Kṛṣṇa? That is, do you offer money in the sense of an offering in a Christian church or do you burn anything, for example, incense or could you explain this?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The flowers, incense, and fruits, the same thing. I have already explained that whatever He has described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says that "Anyone offering Me these things in devotion..." So we follow the same principle. So it is very nice thing. If the students follow, they can follow it individually. Even in his own apartment he can keep a picture of Kṛṣṇa and offer a lamp, a candle, and one, I mean to say, incense. He will feel tremendously spiritually advanced. And if he reads these books, his life will be changed completely. That is a fact. (break) And two boys, Kṛṣṇānanda and one German boy, is going there very soon. So, of course, we do not expect to sell English books in Germany very much, but maybe... (end)

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1968, Montreal, With First Devotees Going to London On Evening of Their Departure:

Prabhupāda: What about that other building, that storefront down?

Janārdana: A storefront downstairs? I don't know all the details about that. I haven't been looking into...

Prabhupāda: You told me that there is a church for sale on the other side of the park?

Janārdana: Yes, there is. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Where is that church?

Janārdana: It's on Esplanade Street.

Prabhupāda: On the corner?

Janārdana: It's on a corner. It's on the corner of Esplanade and the other street. I don't remember. I can go on my bicycle and take a look there.

Prabhupāda: That's a very big building?

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1968, Montreal, With First Devotees Going to London On Evening of Their Departure:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone paid. The Massachusetts Technical College and Eastern University. Eastern University there is...?

Janārdana: I think so.

Prabhupāda: Then Harvard University and Boston University, and one church. They have paid, yes. And one church, Arlington Church, in that church... I think you were present there? Arlington Church?

Govinda dasi: Unitarian?

Prabhupāda: No. You have not been in Boston. Some girls from temple, they were present.

Govinda dasi: Annapūrṇa?

Prabhupāda: Annapūrṇa is always present wherever I go. (laughing) She is very nice, that she wants to follow me. This morning I was asking her that "After your marriage where you want to stay?" and she said, "Wherever you stay, I stay." "And I am traveling. Then you are married. You must have a place to settle." Anyway, in that church they charged us for meeting, but we collected very nicely. We collected more than hundred dollars. Yes. A very nice meeting.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1968, Montreal, With First Devotees Going to London On Evening of Their Departure:

Prabhupāda: More than hundred, because we collected hundred dollars, and utmost, they have paid one dollar.

Janārdana: The summer season is very slow in Montreal. The churches cut down their sermon program. The synagogues don't having sermons in the summer very often. So that's why we haven't had so many engagements. But in the month of September things begin to pick up faster. The coldest time of the year is the busiest time of the year here actually. The real busy season is January and February.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I was speaking to Gaurasundara that Janārdana speaks, "The winter season is the busiest season," and you said, "It is dull season"? (chuckles)

Janārdana: January and February are the busiest, and they are the coldest months too.

Prabhupāda: Very busy?

Janārdana: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1968, Montreal, With First Devotees Going to London On Evening of Their Departure:

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. So for me, I shall be ready to start as soon as we hear from you. Yes. And tomorrow I shall expect mail. I don't think I am going to Vancouver because from Upendra's letter it is not very encouraging, and I don't think Mr. Renogay(?) will, on his personal account, call me and pay me. I don't think so. So what is your next program here?

Janārdana: Then the next program here... Well, the busy season will begin. So I'll go to McGill and Sir George Williams Universities and some churches also, and I'll try to get speaking engagements. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...building?

Janārdana: Possibly. Maybe I'll find a place on the other side of the mountain for you because the man here insisted if we take this for September, we must take it for the whole year.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...means October, November, December?

Janārdana: Until next year in September.

Prabhupāda: Ho, ho! (devotees laugh) That is not possible.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1968, Montreal, With First Devotees Going to London On Evening of Their Departure:

Prabhupāda: Oh. Oh, this is still slow. This is correct time now.

Guru dāsa: Your watch is still drop proof.

Prabhupāda: Because it is correct to the church bell. Yes. Church cannot be... (laughter)

Janārdana: So the ceremony will be at six, yes?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Six-thirty. One hour after. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) (devotees offer obeisances)

Prabhupāda: So take care of your child very nicely. She is Kṛṣṇa conscious child. Yes. And Līlāvatī's child has grown very nice?

Devotee woman: Oh, very nice.

Yamunā: Oh, it's so beautiful.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) And what about that girl?

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Journalist: So I just follow up on this very briefly. In other words, you feel that the western-oriented church, whether it be a synagogue or a church, has failed to present... Would you say that it's message is not relevant or that they have failed to present their message properly?

Prabhupāda: No. The thing is these western churches, just like Christianity, these gospels were spoken long, long ago to the primitive men, you see? Jerusalem. These people were living in desert, and they were not so much advanced. So at that time... Of course, in Bible or in the Old Testament, the idea of God is there, that is all nice. But they... Just like the statement, "God created this world." That is a fact. Now those people who are not advanced in those... Now, at the present moment, people are advanced scientifically. They want to know how the creation has taken place. You see? That explanation is not there, neither the church can give them. You see. Therefore they are not satisfied. Simply officially going to the church and offering prayer, that does not appeal to them. Besides that, practically, they do not follow religious principles. Just like in the Old Testament, there is, I mean to say, Ten Commandments, and there is Commandment that "Thou shall not kill." But killing affair is very prominent in the Christian world.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Authorized from Kṛṣṇa.

Journalist: Is there in India a licensing body by the state for people to preach or to... How in the heck would you say it here?

Prabhupāda: It was not there because in India there are so many churches, and they're supposed to be very saintly person. So simply to become a disciple of a saintly person is sufficient certificate. Just like in your country, marriage requires certificate. In India still, there is no certificate. The boys and girls, they are seated before the relatives and priest and elderly persons. They are offered. I am doing that. There is no certificate. But still their connection is lifelong. What certificate will do? That ceremony is so nice, the wife takes "My husband for life" and the husband takes wife, "She is my companion for life." They cannot separate. There is no history in India that there was a certificate issued. No. But still, their connection is so nice, that life long. Now, they are being westernized, especially I am very sorry to say that lately our so-called westernized leaders they are introducing this Hindu code bill, this marriage certificate, this and that. But formerly they weren't existing.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: We ask people... We don't say that "You give up your, this religion. You come to us." But at least you follow your own principles. And... Just like a student. Sometimes in India it happens that although they have passed M.A. examination in Indian university, they come to foreign university to study more. So why does he come? To get more enlightenment. Similarly any religious scripture you may follow, but if you get more enlightenment here in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, why should you not accept it if you are serious about God? Why should you say, "Oh, I am Christian. I am Jew. I cannot attend your meeting." Why should you say, "Oh, I cannot allow you to speak in my church." If I am speaking about God, what objection you have got?

Journalist: Well, I couldn't agree with you more. I'm sure you know and I'm certainly aware that it's only recently that, for example, a Catholic couldn't even come in here because of some other church. That's changed.

Prabhupāda: Now I have written one letter to Pope. You have seen that? Where is that paper?

Hayagrīva: It's in here.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation Including Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.1-34 Recitation & Explanation -- April 1, 1969, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: So he is addressing them. That is the best form of religion which performing one becomes elevated to devotional service of the Lord. Not religious formalities. One has to test by the result. Phalena paricīyate. You are Christian, I am Hindu, or he is Mohammedan. That's all right. You are very good, I am very good, he is very good. But what is the result of your following religion? Have you attained love of God? Simply I go the church, I go to temple, and I do all kinds of nonsense, I have no love for God, I have love for my māyā and I go simply..., that is useless. Religious principle means... It doesn't matter whether you are Hindu or Christian or Muslim or anything. It doesn't matter. Just see Bhāgavata. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo (SB 1.2.6). That sort of religion is nice, best, by which you can develop love of Godhead. It doesn't mention that "This religion is best, that religion is best." That religion is best which helps someone, the religionist, to develop love of God, Godhead. If you put to test all kinds of religion in this formula of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you'll understand which religion is best. You haven't got to ask anybody.

Conversation Including Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.1-34 Recitation & Explanation -- April 1, 1969, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: That is animal society. Because animals, they have got no religion. So human society, if they have no religion... Must have some religion. It doesn't matter whether Christian or Buddhism or Hinduism or anything. A human being must follow. That is civilized. That is the behavior of civilized world. At the present moment they are neglecting. But in every country, either there may be temples or churches or mosque, people were very religious-minded before this age. I was very much satisfied when I came to New York... no, not only New York. First of all, I went to Pittsburgh, Butler. In that Butler County there were at least one dozen churches, very nice churches. That's a small county. So I was very much satisfied. "Oh, the American people are very religious. They have got these churches." And I saw on Sunday people were attending churches. And in New York also I saw. They may understand or not understand, but that religious spirit is there. You are responding to my appeal because you have got that spirit. Otherwise, why should you come and waste your time with me? So religious principle must be there in the human society. And what is the purpose? Why? The religious principle means that this material life is not happy.

Conversation Including Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.1-34 Recitation & Explanation -- April 1, 1969, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: So dharmaḥ svanuṣṭha... You may do your duty very nicely, you may be very moralist or philanthropist or so many they have manufactured. You may become everything. But if you have not that propensity to hear something about God, then all these are śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8), simply laboring, laboring, laboring. That's all. That means wasting time. Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya (SB 1.2.9). Now, people are generally inclined to execute religious principles to make economic development. Just like in your Christian religion they go to church and pray, "Oh God, give us our daily bread." That is mainly economic development. Not only here. In India also the temple go, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, please keep my family well," or this or that. Economic problem. Generally, people, they become religionist... Therefore modern politicians, they say, "Why should you..." Just like the Russians. They say, "Why should you go to church for begging, 'Give us our daily...' oh, you come to us. We shall give you sufficient bread." The Bolshevists, they make propaganda like this. They go to village to village and ask the village men, "Oh, you pray to your church, pray, 'O God, give us our daily bread,' So have you got your bread?" "No, sir." "All right. Pray to us." They have taken a truck full of bread and... "Take bread. Take bread. As much as you like." "So whom do you like?" Oh, they will naturally say, "I like you." (laughter)

Conversation Before Lecture -- April 29, 1969, Brandeis University, Boston:

Satsvarūpa: That was a disappointment because we almost, almost had it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No question of disappointment. In Los Angeles, we had so many disappointments. At last, we got very nice place. Now we are after bigger place.

Candanācārya: Tell Swamiji about the church we want to get.

Miss Rose: The church...?

Prabhupāda: Then that article has worked adversely?

Satsvarūpa: Yeah. The real estate man said if it had only come out a week later, he said, "You'd be in."

Prabhupāda: So publicity like this is not good for us, that people are thinking we are hippies.

Miss Rose: Yes. That's true, Swamiji. Yeah.

Prabhupāda: So then you should not give publicity. You must even in the beginning verify that we are not hippies. Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is not for hippies. In many places this is a notion, that we are hippies.

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They will pay nice money to hear us?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (reading letter:) "This can be made extensive by your team of followers from America arriving in..." They are greater. So Indian and American combined kīrtana, oh, it will be very nice. Big kīrtana, and every city will receive. And we shall preach that "Here is the common platform for everyone. There is no distinction of nation or religion or anything. Come to the platform." So the Mohammedans also will join. The government will appreciate that here is something secular, real secular; at the same time, God is there. Actually, it is that. All religious people, so-called religious, come here. And religion means this, to love, I mean to say, develop love of God. That is religion. What is this formularies? Simply formula that "I keep this, I copy that." That is not religion, simply by dressing in different way or sitting in a different way. Where is your understanding? You have no understanding of God. You simply formally attend some church or mosque or temple for some material benefit or for some, make some show, but where is your love of God? That is the test of religion, Bhāgavata says. A religious person means he has got complete love of God. Then he is religious. All right. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply wasting time. Bhāgavata says, without developing this love of Godhead, if somebody is engaged in religious ritualistic performance, he's simply wasting his time. Śrama... That particular word is used, śrama eva hi kevalam. Śrama means labor.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Yoko Ono: But you said about if the milk goes through a serpent's mouth it will produce poison, and, for instance, George just told us about a week ago a very interesting story about a man who had a face of Christ, and in twenty years' time he had a face of Judah. And the Catholic Church and all those churches first probably had good words, and now it's deteriorating. Now, how would you decide, really, that brāhmaṇas are always in a pure state that you speak of, that they would never turn into serpents?

Prabhupāda: That you have to become a serious student.

Yoko Ono: Well, I mean, what do you mean by serious student? Maybe everybody, all of us are serious anyway. I mean, we're born serious or born, you know, unserious.

Prabhupāda: Then you must know what is distinction between Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān, if you are serious student.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Oh, industrial house. Industrial house.

Guest (2): It's called "Industry House."

Prabhupāda: Industry, that's all. Industry House. Industry House Dhruva's full name, you know?

Devotee (3): R.C.

Prabhupāda: R.C. Dhruva, Secretary to Mr. R.D. Birla, Industry House, Church Reclamation...

Haṁsadūta: Bombay, West.

Prabhupāda: Bombay.

Yamunā: Is Parliament in session again?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Yamunā: I was thinking that Parliament goes in and out of session, and I wondered if they remembered this if Parliament was in session again.

Giriraja: No.

Yamunā: No.

Prabhupāda: Parliament is in session now?

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 6, 1971, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Well, this kind of protection, crying at the time of danger, this is experienced from past history also. Just like in the last war in Germany. One German friend told me that naturally all the women went to the church for praying, "My Lord, save my husband. Save my brother." Because all men were in the front, only women were left. So they were praying that "My husband may come back. My brother may come back," or "My father may come back," but nobody came back, and they thought, "Oh, there is no God. Our all prayers are useless." They became atheist.

Guest: Then that God should come.

Prabhupāda: So God is not your order-supplier.

Guest: They became atheist...

Prabhupāda: God is not your order-supplier. You create war and pray to the church. Why you create war? Precaution is better than... Unless you Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you will... Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). You will encroach upon other's property. That pāpa-bīja has to be killed. Now, after creating war... What is the use? After creating war by your own fault, if you go to the church and pray God, "Please save me," so who wanted you to create this war? They are creating their wars, and they are making God as order-supplier: "Now I have created war. Please stop it." Why? Did you do it by the sanction of God? So they must suffer.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: No, I am not interested. I came to see you especially...

Prof. Kotovsky: Some people from Christian Orthodox Church may be interested to have some discussion.

Prabhupāda: So if there is some discussion, I am prepared. It is, after all, for the whole human society, and it is being practically appreciated. So if there is possibility, I am, for two days I can meet some gentlemen. I can meet.

Prof. Kotovsky: Well, if you can ask Mr. Natarajan from embassy, to perform...

Prabhupāda: No, not, not in that way. If some of your assistant does it, then it is all right because, to tell you frankly, so far our Indian government is concerned, they are not very much interested with this movement. Yes. Their program is different.

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Television Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Prabhupāda: Yes. When I first came to your country I was guest of an Indian friend at Butler.

Interviewer: In Pennsylvania.

Prabhupāda: Pennsylvania. Yes. So although it was a small county, I was very much engladdened there were so many churches.

Interviewer: So many churches. Yes. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So many churches. And I spoke in many of the churches there. My host arranged for that. So it was not with that purpose, that I came here to defeat some religious process. That was not my purpose. Our mission is, Lord Caitanya's mission is, to teach everyone how to love God, that's all.

Interviewer: But in what way, sir, may I ask, in what way did you think, and do you think right now, that the teaching of the love of God which you are doing, is different and perhaps better than the teachings of the love of God which already were being conducted in this country and have been conducted in the Western world for centuries?

Prabhupāda: That is fact. Because we are following the footsteps of Lord Caitanya. He is considered... He's accepted by us—according to the authority of Vedic literature—He is personally Kṛṣṇa.

Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Prabhupāda: When I first came to your country, I was guest of an Indian friend at Butler.

Interviewer: In Pennsylvania?

Prabhupāda: Pennsylvania. So although it was a small county, I was very much engladdened there were so many churches.

Interviewer: So many churches? Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes, so many churches. And I spoke in many of the churches there. My host arranged for that. So it was not with that purpose that I came here, to defeat some religious process. That was not my purpose. Our mission is, Lord Caitanya's mission is, to teach everyone how to love God. That's all.

Interviewer: But in what way, sir, may I ask, in what way did you think, and do you think right now, that the teaching of the love of God which you are doing is different and perhaps better than the teachings of the love of God which already were being conducted in this country, and have been conducted in the Western world for centuries?

Prabhupāda: That is fact. Because we are following the footsteps of Lord Caitanya. He is considered..., He's accepted by us according to the authority of Vedic literature, He is personally Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- London, August 10, 1971:

Prabhupāda: Then means that a church turned out a new building. So that is a big stake.

Mr. Arnold: Mr. Dwyer was very anxious that the Dawson Place should have been purchased, or some house of a similar nature, because these can be used.

Śyāmasundara: (re: Mr. Ahujya) He'll be calling up in a few minutes. He's just gone out. She said she would tell him. He has an Indian Handicrafts house.

Prabhupāda: Suppose we can arrange for the money, somehow or other, half. Half a million required?

Mr. Arnold: For, for the new premises.

Prabhupāda: One fourth million if we can arrange. So is it possible to arrange for the other one fourth million from the bank?

Mr. Arnold: I think that if you're putting up a quarter of it, a quarter of a million, then I think there's every certainty of the bank loaning you the other quarter. I think this is quite a definite circumstance.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: I am sitting here, and now I'm talking with you. As soon as I finish talking, I shall chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So where is the difficulty? But ask people to chant the holy name of God, he won't accept. Unfortunate. And such simple thing. He hasn't got to go to church, to temple, or to go to hell or heaven. In whatever condition he is, he can chant holy name of God. But they're so unfortunate, they won't accept this theory. Etādṛśī tava kṛpā. "So God is so merciful, but I am so unfortunate that I cannot chant His holy name." There is no charges, there is no fee, there is no loss. If there is some gain, why not try for it? And the gain is there. That you practically see. Because these boys from Europe, America, and other places, they were... I do not wish to discuss. (laughter) But just see the process now. Not the process one has... Other has to calculate. Then calculate, then serve. Yes. There is so much profit.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Sister Mary: We see that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So what you want more? Therefore let us cooperate. Don't think that it is against Christianism or it is sectarian. Let us cooperate fully. Jointly, let us preach all over the world, "Chant the holy name of God." Let us join together. That should be the real purpose of devotees of God. Here is... They are preaching love of God. Why should we be envious about them? It doesn't matter. We don't say that you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. If you have got name of God, you chant it. That's all. But we are preaching this cult, that chant the holy name of God. That's all. So what objection there may be from other sects? But they are envious. Because the younger generation are taking to it, so they are envious. Why they are envious? We wanted to purchase one church, and the priest in charge said that "I shall better burn this church. I shall not give them." Just see. Why? What we have done wrong? This is the very statement. "Better I shall burn this church, but I won't give them." Then? What we have done?

Sister Mary: Don't worry about that.

Prabhupāda: No, I don't worry. That is another thing. But there are so many vacant churches. They are for sale. But as soon as we go, they refuse. "No."

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Sister Mary: We do it in some, together, in the orthodox church. And we take turns doing two hundred.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Guest (1): And... These are for counting.

Prabhupāda: That is nice. We also do the same thing. We chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Sister Mary: "Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on us."

Prabhupāda: Oh, what is the wording?

Sister Mary: "Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on us."

Prabhupāda: "Lord Jesus Christ, son of God..."

Revatīnandana: "Have mercy on us."

Sister Mary: It's a little prayer.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Sister Mary: But does the Catholic church allow tea?

Guest (2): I was talking about basic, those who are involved in...

Revatīnandana: It's fundamentally a God conscious attitude, that this body, this human body is meant for spiritual realization. The fact that the body has got sexual desire, therefore we make a concession for that. We use it for begetting good children. If one wants to marry, he can marry and have good children, and raise them to love God. But the real purpose of human life is not just to enjoy sex life like the cats and dogs. Human life has got a higher purpose. So therefore we believe that our human energy should be utilized in that way, for reducing the eating, the sleeping, the sex life. Reducing these things to the minimum, as much as necessary, rather than as much as possible. And having as much as necessary, that leaves most of our time and energy for cultivating our God consciousness. See what I mean? Therefore the idea is that sex life is the highest happiness for man, we don't subscribe to that. It's the biggest happiness in this material world. But spiritual life means unending happiness. A human being can experience this. The dog or cat can't. So for them there is eating, sleeping, sex life, defending themselves. But a human being can experience higher pleasure in God consciousness. So we think that... Therefore we use our energy in that direction.

Sister Mary: So it isn't a negation of pleasure, but it's a higher pleasure.

Guest (2): Can I ask...

Prabhupāda: This is very important point, that we are not negating pleasure, but we are trying to bring them to the highest pleasure.

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Visit. Keep them alive. "Simply because we have opened a center, the business is finished." No. You must keep them alive. Alive means this morning class must go on, evening class must go on, there must be regular program for prasāda distribution. Busy. That is alive.

Revatīnandana: And they must also study your books.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise, so many Indian temples or churches, they think, "The church is there; everything is finished." No. Why people are losing interest in church? There is no preaching. Neither do they know what is preaching. They simply think that "This building will attract people." So they are now on sale.

Revatīnandana: In Calcutta it was like that. Everywhere we attract people with the Deity worship, but we hold them with the lectures.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Come on. So how you were allowed to enter?

Śivānanda: Oh, it was all right. No difficulty. No difficulty.

Prabhupāda: Last time you had difficulty.

Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:

Journalist (1): But to become God conscious do you think they have to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: No, you become devotee of God. If you don't accept Kṛṣṇa, then... You have got some idea of God? Or not?

Journalist (1): You could accept the idea of God in another manner than your church?

Prabhupāda: Suppose... We are giving Kṛṣṇa, presenting Kṛṣṇa, as God, and we are giving God's name, address, place, everything. Yes. (laughter) Don't laugh. It is serious. If you refuse to accept Kṛṣṇa as God, then you present your God. Give me His the address, name and occupation. Can you give me?

Journalist (1): No.

Prabhupāda: Then you take from me. Why you are refusing? If you do not know then take it from me. And if you know better than me, you give it to me. You do not know; still, you will not accept. Then what is your position? That you don't want to know God. When I say, "Do you know what is God?" you say, "No." When I present God, you say, "Why shall I accept? It is your God." At least we have got some God. But you know, do not know what is God. So my position is better than you.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Weir: Far more acceptable to every type of Christian than any of the specific creeds or sects, you know, the Church of England, Anglicans, Roman Catholics, every other form of prophecy. And you have that greater universality. (indistinct) And you've got Tibetans (who) will accept your places in the same way as a westerner could.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Dr. Weir: A Tibetan could accept your position.

Prabhupāda: Tiberian? Tibetians? What is their philosophy?

Dr. Weir: You've heard of the Dalai Lama?

Prabhupāda: Yes. What does he say?

Dr. Weir: Well, his position would be the same as yours. Wouldn't it? In religion?

Mensa Member: You mean the Tibetan Buddhist attitude about the Godhead is the same as the Kṛṣṇas?

Dr. Weir: Yes. They have that same basis.

Prabhupāda: But so far we know that Buddhists they do not believe in God, existence of God.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Śyāmasundara: Today we went to a service, a Christian service, the first one I've been to in years, and in the back of the church we walked in there were eleven old ladies sitting in the pews. And outside I could hear the roar of traffic and people. I began to think how much the Christian church has lost track or lost pull(?) of this ability to be able to guide people, the practical application of moral and spiritual principles, so much so that no one was interested to come in...

Prabhupāda: One priest in Boston, he issued leaflet regretting that these boys, he saw our students. He appreciated that these boys are so much after God and they're our boys. We could not give them. Actually the same boy was, one year or two years ago, he was not going to church, was not interested in God consciousness, but now this same boy is mad after God. And he's twenty-four hours in God consciousness. They're chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra twenty-four hours. How they have become so...

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Devotee (5): There are some Christians who are actually sincere and they feel as though they are doing the proper thing, but they are just misled by the fact that there is no paramparā system coming from Lord Jesus. The churches are teaching the wrong thing, but they are sincere. (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa will direct them (indistinct) the proper authority?

Prabhupāda: Yes. If they are actually following strictly the principles of Jesus Christ, then sometimes when he meets some pure devotee, he will accept. The groundwork will be nice for accepting farther advancement. Just like Jesus Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." So if anyone follows this principle, "No, I shall not kill," then he becomes purified. But who is that Christian who is not killing? So where is follow? Amongst the Christians the more killing process is going on very strongly. So who is a Christian? In that, if you disobey the first principle of Christianity, then where is your Christianity? Why you falsely claim that you are a Christian? "Thou shalt not covet." What is that next?

Devotee: "Thou shalt not kill."

Devotee: Honor thy mother and father?

Devotee: There is one about no adulteration.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So adulteration is going on, killing is going on. So many disobedience to Christian principles. So where is the possibility of becoming a Christian?

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why he should be responsible? If you are not a Christian, why he should be responsible? Now, here he says that "Now you have sinned, full reaction I have washed, don't do it again."

Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: But they are going to church, confessing every week, and doing the same thing. Who is a Christian, first of all find out, then Jesus Christ will take responsibility.

Devotee: They are gambling and eating flesh right in the churches, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, I mean to say, if you don't follow the Christian principles, how you can claim yourself to become a Christian and how you can ask Jesus Christ to take responsibility for you? These are misleading, therefore people are coming disgusted. Otherwise Christian religion is all right. It teaches love of Godhead, teaches to become moral, it teaches to love people, that's nice. These are good principles.

Viṣala: So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Bible it says, "Thou shalt not kill", and the Christians say, "Yes, thou shalt not kill but you can kill animals." (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. Where it is written that thou shalt not kill animals? "Thou shalt not kill." "Thou shalt not kill," means you shall not kill anything. (break)

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Śyāmasundara: Because they promise something they don't deliver?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Even if you get it, what do you get? You go to... Supposed you go to church: "God, give us our daily bread." God is giving, then what do you get? Bread is given to the animals also. Why you are going to the church? That is the Communist say, that "We shall give you bread. Why you waste your time with so-called religions?" The politician says that "You want to be happy, there is technology. Why you are going to pray to God? This is all nonsense." They are thinking that. But prayer is not meant for that purpose. Prayer... Just like we are praying, but our prayer is "Kṛṣṇa, kindly engage me in Your service," Hare Kṛṣṇa. "O the energy of Kṛṣṇa, O the Lord Kṛṣṇa, please engage me in Your service." This is our prayer. We are not going to prayer, "O God, give us our daily bread." And if you get bread, then what do you gain?

Śyāmasundara: We've all experienced that. We've had so much bread. What did we get?

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: This building, it was a Christian church. Nobody was there. It was a barren desert. And since Kṛṣṇa has come here, you see? Same business. Is it not the fact? Same religion, the same. It was a church, but because there was no Kṛṣṇa, it was a barren land. This is a fact. Nobody was coming there; therefore they sold it off: "It is useless." That's a fact. Similarly, everyone can bring Kṛṣṇa at his home by becoming a devotee. There will be opulence. There is no question of committing suicide out of frustration. So many men, so many actors, out of frustration, committing suicide. They want to die. But if they take Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa consciousness, immediately everything will be there. Not that Kṛṣṇa was present there and not present here. He is present here. The Deity is present here. And if you think otherwise, then Kṛṣṇa will be (indistinct). If you think that Kṛṣṇa is absent, then everything is lost.

Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Everything is known, can be known, from authorized source of knowledge. A child does not know what is this. He asks father, "Father, what is this?" The father explains, "My dear boy, this is dictaphone. When I speak, it records." Childlike, you see? That is the way of knowledge. If you do not know God, you must approach a person who knows God. There is knowledge. There is no difficulty.

John Fahey: But I went to church, and I still don't know.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: He went to church and he could not find out.

Prabhupāda: That may be.

John Fahey: I couldn't feel it.

Prabhupāda: That may be, but you may be cheated, that is another thing. Suppose you ask something from somebody. If he cheats you, that may be your mistake or his, but the process is the same; you cannot avoid it. If you want to know God, then you have to go to a person who knows God. You might have gone to a person who does not know. That is another thing. You went to a wrong person. But actually if you want to know God, you must have to go to a person who knows God. That you have to search out. That requires intelligence.

Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is the way of learning what is God. The main business is that one must know God. It is not that because I approach some person and he did not know, he could give me the right knowledge of God, then I give up this idea of knowing God. No. That will not..., that is not good for human life. Then you remain animal. I might have been cheated or I might not have approached the proper person, but that does not mean that I can stop that idea. That is not... In another place it is said, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). One who is actually inquisitive to understand the highest benefit of life, he must approach a guru. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ. Jijñāsu means inquisitive. Śreya—the highest benefit of life. Uttamam-highest. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. Ṣābde pare ca niṣṇātaṁ. What is the qualification of such a person? Ṣābde pare ca niṣṇātaṁ. He is completely well versed in the transcendental science. And what is the symptom that he is well versed? Brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam. He has taken shelter of Brahma or Kṛṣṇa or God. Upāsanā-finishing all desires. These two things: he is a devotee and he has no more material desires. He must be well versed in the science, he must be a devotee, and he has no attraction for material things. These three things, if you can find, then he's perfect guru. Everything is there in the śāstra; therefore books should be consulted. If you have no books, those who are discussing books, you should approach them, you should hear them. Just like we are holding class, morning, evening. People can come here, take advantage what we are speaking, then gradually they can understand. But we cannot avoid that. That is not good idea. If I say that "I went to church. I'm not very much enlightened; therefore I give up this attempt," oh, that is not good.

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Devotee (1): Do the Māyāvādīs say you can worship anything and it is all the same?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (chuckles) That is their nonsense. Kṛṣṇa says different thing, but they have manufactured their own way. Is that a temple?

Devotee (1): Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's a nice gold dome.

Prabhupāda: It appears as church. It is a church?

Devotee (1): Yes. I do not know what kind. Christian church. (break)

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Kṛṣṇa has endowed California with a lot of natural beauty.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: All year around there is nice flowers and green.

Devotee (1): Sunshine.

Prabhupāda: And you know how to utilize them. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa has given you this land. Now utilize it and develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It will be heaven.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Bob Cohen: Prabhupāda, people that engage in religions, like these Jesus freaks and other people, they claim that Jesus is guiding them. Can this be so?

Prabhupāda: Yes. But they're not taking the guidance. Just like the Christians. Jesus guiding him, "Thou shalt not kill," but they're killing. Where is the Jesus guidance? Simply by saying, "I am guided by Jesus Christ," will do? "But I don't care for his words." Is that guidance? So nobody is being guided by Jesus Christ. They're falsely claiming. It is very hard to find out a man who is actually being guided by Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ's guidance is open there, but nobody is caring for him. They have taken Jesus Christ as contractor to take up their sins. That is their philosophy. They commit all kinds of sins, and poor Jesus Christ will be responsible. That is their religion. Therefore they say, "We have got very good religion. For all our sinful activities, Jesus Christ will die." Very good religion. They have no sympathy for Jesus Christ. "Once he has died for our sins, why should we commit again sins? Such a great life has been sacrificed for our sins." That is guided by Jesus Christ. But if you take it otherwise—"We shall go on committing all sins, and Jesus Christ has made contract that he'll nullify all my sins. Simply I go to the church and confess, and come back and again do all nonsense"—do you think it is very goodly intelligence?

Bob Cohen: No.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: What charity they can do? We also, a "loophole," that's all. We are making charity.

Jayādvaita: I was reading in their book, the Bible...

Prabhupāda: And they're playing, gambling.

Devotee: Yes. In the church.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotees: Bingo.

Prabhupāda: Bingo.

Jayādvaita: I was reading, they prescribe..., the book prescribes all our principles.

Prabhupāda: And five hundred, five hundred priests are in hospital for, for their drinking habit. Five hundred or five thousand? You know that? Yes. Brahmānanda gave me a cutting from newspaper, that five hundred or five thousand priests are in the hospital to cure of their drinking habit.

Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:

Guest (1): Yes, I guess it would be hard to define in terms of a search. Man's..., man's search for something divine. I'd..., I'd define it in terms of, of a search for the divine. I've been studying Russian Elders in the Orthodox Church. Perhaps that's a tradition that you're familiar with in some way. They seem to have found the divine. I guess that's religion too. It seems to me both are, but perhaps you have a better definition than that?

Prabhupāda: Yes. When you are searching with some hope, what is that hope? Why you are searching? When you are missing something, then there is a question of searching for that missing point. You said religion means searching after the divine. So that means you are missing the divine. Is it not?

Guest (1): That's right.

Prabhupāda: Now, the next question will be, What do you mean by this "divine"?

Guest (1): Oh, I'm not..., I'm not sure, Your Grace.

Prabhupāda: The other day we were talking with some scientists. We came to this conclusion, that the scientists, big scientists, they are simply concerned with the laws of nature, because the laws of nature are very stringent. For example, there is death. Everyone will die. So nobody can check death. However great scientist he may, he cannot stop death. By laws of nature one is becoming old. By your scientific advancement you can stop first of all. So the science means they are trying to overcome the stringent laws of nature, but so far... Not so far—even in the past in the human history they could not. In the present also they are unable.

Interview -- July 20, 1972, Paris:

Frenchman: (indistinct) ...history of many masters and many great teachers such as Jesus Christ and many others... (indistinct) ...come to... (indistinct) ...message. (indistinct) ...today on the same level.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because from God's side there is always an attempt to make the people right. As soon as they're wrongly directed, some messenger comes like Jesus Christ or Buddha or, before Him, Lord Kṛṣṇa. So what we are preaching that is not new. It is God consciousness. And all the great messiahs they came. But the thing is that people are changing in their different education mentalities. So we have to present things in such a way that intelligent person can accept the old teachings in the western countries. Like Lord Jesus Christ... Either they're not being followed or they're not properly understood because in London I saw hundreds of churches are vacant. That means that it's so practical that people have no more interest in Christianity or the Christian people could not convince them of the spiritual necessity of life. Many churches are for sale. That's not a good sign. That means people have lost interest in spiritual life but fortunately the younger generation, they are taking to this spiritual movement.

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: "...American," "I am Indian," "I am this," "I am that." Hm.

Devotee (1): Did you have some places to see down in, ah, for Prabhupāda to see in the next day or two?

Dhanañjaya: There's this one big church I went to see in Hammersmith, and I thought he could see... (devotees conversing in background)

Prabhupāda: Where is Himavatī?

Devotee (2) (Haṁsadūta?): She's... I think she's upstairs in the... (more devotee conversation in background)

Devotee (1): There is one very large church to see on Monday.

Prabhupāda: Monday.

Devotee (1): Yeah. Not before.

Prabhupāda: Why not before?

Dhanañjaya: Well, we can arrange for this week also a church.

Prabhupāda: Where it is?

Dhanañjaya: It's in Hammersmith, Hammersmith.

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: So why not see earlier? Have you got any description?

Dhanañjaya: Well, we can't see it earlier because it belongs to the Methodist Church, and their committee members are meeting in another city, in Manchester, for a week. They have their..., a big congress meeting there. So they don't come back until the end of this week.

Devotee (1): So we can't see it while they're meeting?

Dhanañjaya: Well we could see it from the outside. Actually we went there one day, Mr. Allen(?) and (indistinct) and myself.

Prabhupāda: Well, what is the description?

Dhanañjaya: It's very nice.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is explained in Bhāgavatam: satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi (SB 1.1.1). Finally proof.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: If there would be no ideality, the scientists cannot think about ideality itself.

Devotee (1): (indistinct) think about the concept of living eternally because this was the teaching of the church that I was going to. And I used to become very frightened at having to go on and on forever because I couldn't imagine what I'd be doing during all that time. I used to try to put some end to it all. Now in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we understand that eternity is filled up with ideal activities and that eternal life is very blissful and full of knowledge. This concept is not there in any other teaching. (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: The scientist says there is no life after death.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (as man passes by) Foolish man (indistinct).

Jayatīrtha: Sunday morning now instead of going to church, they go play golf.

Devotee (2): (break) ...exercise so you can walk around. But now they have those electric cars so they don't have to walk anywhere.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They call that advancement. The search for knowledge is natural.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They search for knowledge, but loosing Kṛṣṇa, searching in the wrong direction.

Prabhupāda: The search for knowledge is natural, but the knowledge should be taken from the person who knows the knowledge. That they do not know. The search is all right, but they are taking knowledge from a rascal. That is the difference. So one rascal is teaching another rascal, so what is the advancement of knowledge? Both of them remains in the ignorance. What is the use of the search? Better to stop this university.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jayatīrtha: In the last six years in the Catholic church, 25,000 priests have left and taken up...

Prabhupāda: 25,000?

Jayatīrtha: 25,000 in six years.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Jayatīrtha: Have left the Catholic church, priests.

Prabhupāda: Left.

Jayatīrtha: Ordained priests, they have left and gone off to marry or whatever. Especially they are concerned that they can't marry. Catholic priests are not allowed to marry.

Prabhupāda: Marrying? They are marrying man to man ,what to speak of marrying. Sodomy.

Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: There is no temple in India. As we are maintaining our temple, there is no such temple in India. There are temple, they are neglected. Just like here, the churches are neglected. (break) ...demons, and here we are manufacturing demigods.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I read in the news that in the next five-year plan, they are planning to spend about thirty-two billion rupees for education, the greatest for ten years. They said that there were so many mistakes for the last ten years in introducing the basic education that everybody said there is no success. So they are planning another thirty-two billion rupees from 1974 onwards.

Prabhupāda: What education? To eat meat and beef.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That education. And no restriction of sex even amongst the leaders.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Nobody goes to church. Churches, churches are now being sold. In London, have you been in London? There are hundreds and thousands of churches, they're simply (indistinct), nobody goes there. Not only in England, in America also. In America still, they are going on, because there are (indistinct) churches, but in England I will say, it is (indistinct). Very, very nice, you have been to (indistinct)? (indistinct) ...so excellent church, there is one flaw, very big church, well constructed. Now the church authority, desiring that the somebody, he's imagining (indistinct), he's imagining that this is such a nice church so our... Government has sent somebody to take this church, he's thinking Americans may take... No, why Americans will be interested to take the church, as it is... But he's thinking... That means he wants to dismantle the church. But church now will not allow. He's finding out some customer who will take the church (indistinct). So their headquarter land is very valuable. So if the land is vacated, then you may have a little church and other land he can utilize for himself. That is his proposition. And so far purchasing the church, there may be, but others will purchase the church for dismantling and making a nice skyscraper building. They do not want actually. Church now will not allow. We say that we shall not dismantle the church, we shall utilize it as temple. We says... Crazy idea (indistinct). But my point is that church is so excellent, huge amount of money has been spent, and nobody...? (pause) (Hindi) So I chastised them, fools and rascals in meeting, but they did not protest. They accepted my chastisement.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The Scottish Church College in Calcutta...

Prabhupāda: Yes. I was student there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, Śrīla Prabhupāda was in Scottish Church?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's very popular among the...

Prabhupāda: Oh, Yes. In Calcutta, there are two colleges, Presidency College and Scottish Churches College. All respectable families, son will go there, Scottish Churches College, Presidency College.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They started almost at the same time?

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is very old. Presidency College is government, and Scottish Churches College, by the Scottish Church missionaries. There was one priest, Duff, his name was Duff. He started in Srirampur, a small educational institute, Duff Institute. He was a Scotsman. Later on, all the Scottish missionaries combined together and they started this Scottish Churches College.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Yes, yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Presidency College and Scottish Church College.

Prabhupāda: Now they are ruined due to this Naxalite movement. Subash Bose was in our college.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, Scottish? Oh.

Prabhupāda: He was first in the Presidency College, but on account of his national spirit, he was rusticated from Presidency College. Then he came to our college.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is a...

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...Subash Bose Research Institute in Calcutta in...

Prabhupāda: Subash Bose?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. About the museum.

Room Conversation with Father Tanner and other guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes, it changes.

Father Tanner: Now, I...

Prabhupāda: Actually, You can see here.

Father Tanner: You can have a person who goes to church every Sunday, who says his prayers...

Prabhupāda: No, our program is not like that, we go after seven days. We are twenty-four hours engaged.

Father Tanner: Yes, yes. But all I'm saying is you can have this, and they are not spiritual.

Prabhupāda: No, why not spiritual?

Father Tanner: And, you know, I don't know your disciples...

Prabhupāda: That you have to learn. That you have to learn. Yes.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

David Lawrence: The churches in this land seem to have forgotten that. He never claimed to be God.

Prabhupāda: No, how he could claim? He's a devotee of God, he's servant of God. How he can claim? Of course, there is no difference between God and His servant. Yes. That we say. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata... **. Because a devotee, like Lord Jesus Christ, means confidential servant of God, there is no difference between God and himself. Just like any political representative or business representative, he's, if he's a confidential representative, there is no difference between the king or the proprietor of the firm, so long he represents rightly. Similarly, anyone who represents God or the cause of God, he's not different from God. We should offer respect to such person exactly like God. That is our instruction of the ācāryas.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: The, the priest also, he's surprised, that "They are our boys. They did not come to church, never cared for religion. And now they are after God, mad after God. What is this?" They are surprised.

David Lawrence: Well, I think a lot of our boys could understand it, having been to a service, you know, attended ārati, and they...

Prabhupāda: So that is, that is due to our strict following the principles. That is making them stout and strong in spiritual platform.

David Lawrence: Yes. This is surely it, that so much, so many other movements, as such, and sectarian groups have compromised so much, haven't they? They, they... If one goes past the average English church which is these boys' experience of religion, they pass the biggest cars in the neighborhood on a Sunday morning. This is, this is what they see. And, of course, when they came to the temple, they found people living out a lifestyle, which, even though was so totally alien from their own, they could feel that it was worthwhile.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: I see.

Lord Brockway: My parents were missionaries there.

Prabhupāda: Hm. I was also a student of missionary college, Scottish Churches' College.

Lord Brockway: Oh yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We had very good professors. W. S. Urquhart, Dr. W.S. Urquhart, he was a Scotsman.

Lord Brockway: Yes, yes. Was that in Calcutta?

Prabhupāda: Yes, in Calcutta. And Lord Rolandson, Zetland, Marquis of Zetland. He was governor of Bengal. So he's also a Scotsman.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Lord Brockway: ...I would like to ask. I do not belong to any church. I'm attracted to eastern religions and the Hindu religion because they are pantheist, they have a sense of belonging to everyone and everything in all time, and because of that spiritual feeling, service to all. And I find that better than church theology because church theology is so often thinking entirely of personal salvation rather than service to all. And for those reasons I'm attracted to eastern religions. I think the second comment I would make is this, that you have said that if the world is to move towards brotherhood it must be by a recognition of the fatherhood of God, and that all men are the sons of God.

Prabhupāda: Not only men, all living entities.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: He's thoroughly understanding-before killing. Not that "We have (indistinct) reason to kill." No. So we are rather unhappy that in London I've seen thousands of churches practically closed. Nobody is going there. We are not happy to see. This is happening. But why people are abstaining from going to the church? Although there is Pope, and so many priests and other things. Why?

Reporter: It has become an institution, and there is no more religious...

Prabhupāda: Life.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Jesuit Priest: She's an Albanian nun who works in India and is, and has captivated the whole world just by the fantastic work she's done and is doing amongst the down, the outcastes and the desperately poor in the cities of India, particularly in Calcutta. And she's got disciples, young men, young women, joining her, where most of the other religious orders are desperately short. And the youth is being captivated by her, and they can't cope with the numbers wanting to join. And she was given a big speech in the Guild Hall in London and was the first person presented with an enormous sum of money by the Duke of Edinburgh, voted by the World Council of Churches as the outstanding religious person in the world. And people at her speech who heard, it brought the audience to its feet. And all she said in her speech was nothing more except "Love, love, love, love. Just go on giving and look for nothing back," which made an enormous impact, probably the greatest impact that anybody's making at present, in the world at present. (jet going over) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...satisfied to remain in the village. That is the defect of the modern civilization.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: But simply to becoming doctor at a medical science will not save me. Unfortunately, they do not believe in the next life.

Mother: Oh, yes they do. I go to... I had a doctor who came to church—and Michael knows him—every Sunday, a very good man.

Prabhupāda: Mostly. I have spoken with many educated persons. In Moscow I was talking with Professor Kotofsky. He said, "Swamiji, after finishing this body, everything is finished." But he's a big professor. Generally, even they do believe next life, they do not believe it very seriously. If we actually believe there is next life, then we must be prepared: "What kind of next life I am going to have?"

Mother: Yes, well, father...

Prabhupāda: Because there are eight million, four hundred thousand forms of life. The trees are also life, the cats and dogs, they are also life. And there are higher, intelligent persons in the higher planetary systems. They are also life. The worm in the stool, that is also life. So, calculating all of them, there are 8,400,000 species of life. So if I am going to have next life... Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change this body to another body. So our concern should be "What kind of body I am going to get next?"

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Jesuit Priest: Well, I wouldn't know. Because, I would say, because there's some kind of inadequacy in their lives. There's something missing, and that, the thing which is missing, is what we in the Catholic Church call the life of grace, the supernatural. Somehow, something's gone wrong somewhere. And so, they, lots of the young people today...

Prabhupāda: That, that I was trying to explain, that nobody can understand God and God's conception, being sinful.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: And you'll also be surprised to know that this, this was a church, that building. It was a big church. So we have purchased it.

Jesuit Priest: Very nice.

Mother: In other words, your temple... Do you call it your temple or a church?

Prabhupāda: We call temple.

Mother: A temple. And are these married and...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, there are married, there are sannyāsīs, there are brahmacārī, all kinds of people. It is not restricted. You see. So many children. They're having children. We are taking care of them. Everything.

Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Instead of making the state center, make God center.

Popworth: Do you think that the Christian monasteries practiced this in the past, or perhaps even today?

Haṁsadūta: Well, today, no one is practicing it. Otherwise why people are leaving the church? No one is in the monastery, no one is in the church. They are abandoning it. Because there is no center. As soon as there is a center, it will carry weight. Just like a wheel. If there's a hub, if there's a hub, that it will carry weight.

Popworth: I have not abandoned the church. I have embraced it.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Anna Conan Doyle: And even you people you have to have people donate like we have the Catholic church...

Prabhupāda: The difficulty is...

Anna Conan Doyle: ...is to make from the people are working, we are dependent on the materialistic man also...

Prabhupāda: No, the difficulty is that we are not satisfied with our living condition. Suppose I am, I have got this body. To maintain this body, I require my food, and for getting the food, I must have some money. I must have some occupation. This is one thing. But people are now... Suppose one thousand francs will provide his family, himself. He's not satisfied with one thousand francs. He wants ten thousand. That is the fault. Therefore he does not find time for Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Paramahaṁsa: The Protestant movement also, when they broke away from the Catholic church, the kings would protect the movement and fight to protect.

Prabhupāda: It is king's duty.

Ambassador: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ambassador: But we are... We are small people. We can only, we cannot go beyond the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I know.

Ambassador: But as individuals we'd be very happy to...

Prabhupāda: No, even if we approach higher authorities... Our men in New Delhi saw Indira Gandhi.

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: It is a Vedic system. All the brāhmaṇas take clean-shaved. Vedic system. So we are trying to stay in the platform of brahminical culture. Therefore it is one of the essential things.

Reporter (2): I understand that. Thank you very much from me for your help. Thank you. Bye, bye.

Haṁsadūta: (break) ...A church. Which church?

Reporter (3): Methodist Church.

Haṁsadūta: Methodist Church.

Reporter (3): Which is fairly advanced, really...

Prabhupāda: Methodist Church is famous.

Haṁsadūta: Methodist Church.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I've seen many signboards.

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Presidency?

Prof. Gombrich: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So the Scottish Churches College is also on the same standard, Presidency College.

Prof. Gombrich: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So you are teacher there? No.

Prof. Gombrich: I teach in Oxford, yes.

Prabhupāda: You teach in Oxford?

Prof. Gombrich: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But in India went to visit?

Prof. Gombrich: Yes, I lived for two years in Ceylon.

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Prof. Gombrich: No, I haven't, I'm afraid. No. And do you think that the message of Kṛṣṇa consciousness or Kṛṣṇa Caitanya is very different from the message of realizing God which is promulgated in other religions, for instance the Śaiva religion or...?

Prabhupāda: No I don't think so. Any religion, you follow nicely. Just Christian religion, there is God consciousness. So actually it is not this religion or that religion. People have given up religion. All over the world they have no more interest in religion. And especially I see that in your London that so many churches are vacant. Nobody's going there. So thing is that there is no more regular teaching of religious system. It has become a profession like. Neither the teachers are serious, nor the students are serious. So our principle is that not this religion or that religion. Whichever religion you may like, you can follow, but we want to see whether you are God conscious. If you are not God conscious, then we take it simply useless waste of time, these so-called religions. Śrama eva hi kevalam. You understand Sanskrit.

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Prof. Gombrich: But do you think for instance, in this country, if somebody is a Protestant, or I mean a Christian and goes to church, this is also, you don't try to convert them away from that?

Prabhupāda: No, no. We have no such process (indistinct).

Prof. Gombrich: Because your movement is extremely distinctive.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We don't try to convert. Just like one gentlemen was asking, "Why these ladies, girls, they are putting Indian sari?" I never said that "You do that." But they're doing out of their own accord. So I never canvassed to become a Hindu, or like that, no. Our propaganda is, "Just become God conscious." (end)

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Acyutānanda: Yeah, they protest organized religion. Anything in the society, Catholic Church...,

Prabhupāda: So nobody's now actually... This Christian world, they do not care for any pope. Hm. What do you think? And what is this pope? He's simply a post. He has no knowledge. Otherwise how he can tolerate? People are going against Bible. But the Pope does not understand that the in the Bible clearly it is said, "Thou shalt not kill." If he does not understand the simple truth then how he can become the head of his... So what is interpretation of the pope?

Acyutānanda: Yes, they say that animals have no soul.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Such rascals, they are leaders. How much imperfect that institution is. But if you say, then they will be angry.

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is very dangerous. Then you will all fall down. If you make a joint mess, if you go and collect something and then eat and sleep, then everything will be... Therefore I do not want to keep separate. The temple worship means there will be regulative principles, that you will have to rise early in the morning, you have to attend class, kīrtana... These things, as soon as you give up all these things, zero. Then it will be like karmīs, as they are, hard labor, collecting money, and enjoying senses. That's all. So that is the pitfall everywhere. In the church, temple, as soon as they get some nice income, then in the name of "priest," "sādhu," "sannyāsī," they do the same thing. Therefore Gosvāmīs, they left everything. That is the danger of viṣaya, viṣaya touch. Viṣaya chāḍiyā se rase majiyā. As soon as we give up this śravaṇam, kīrtanam, then it becomes viṣaya. Viṣaya means materialism. There is no spiritualism. Kṣurasya dhārā, kṣurasya dhārā. Kṣura means sharpened razor. If you are careful, you cleanse very nicely. If you are not careful, immediately blood. Immediately. So the spiritual life is like that. As soon as you become little inattentive, immediately māyā captures, "Yes, come on." Then everything failure. We have got the tendency to enjoy sense. So senses are strong. As soon as there is opportunity, the senses will take advantage immediately. Then your whole business finished, Choṭa Haridāsa, and rejected by Mahāprabhu, "Get out." Even associate of Caitanya Mahāprabhu failed, personal associate. So there is chance of falling down even from the personal association of God. Jaya-Vijaya, they had to become demons. So these are the... If we do not follow strictly our regulative principles, routine work, then the whole scheme will be failure. Then, instead of Christianity, it will be "churchianity." You know this word, "churchianity?" You know? Yes. Everywhere this churchianity is going on.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But concentration. Best concentration in darkness is to sleep comfortable, no disturbance. If you make the room dark and go on sleeping, snoring, nobody is going to disturb you. That is best concentration.

Lady: What do you suggest for meditation?

Prabhupāda: We don't find anything in the Bhagavad-gītā that "You should concentrate, meditate in darkness." We take it as bogus. No religious system, even in Christianity, there is no such thing as darkness. Christian churches are very much illuminated. They pray. Prayer is there. The necessity. Why in darkness? That is his invention. Neither in Hinduism, neither in Buddhism, there is such recommendation that "You pray in the darkness." Therefore it is bogus. Not standard. Why darkness? Naturally, if you make this room dark, you will feel sleepy. That is natural tendency.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: One who is freed from all sinful activities, he can be allowed to enter into the kingdom of God. The kingdom of God means the place for the pure, not for the impure. And impurity means sinful activities. So therefore Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender unto Me. I give you protection from impure," because... Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyaḥ. Because by impure life, they have committed so many sinful activities. But not that I surrender to Kṛṣṇa and I continue my impure life. Kṛṣṇa can forgive you, whatever impurities are there, "All right, squared up. Don't do it." Ara nare baba. (?) Jagāi and Mādhāi. Jagāi and Mādhāi said, "No sir, no more this life. Yes, I accept." Caitanya Mahāprabhu immediately accepted. Not that that confession system, go to the church-conference on Sunday and again come back, on Monday begin again sinful activities, and again go to church on Sunday and confess and nullify it. Not like that. When you deny that "I shall not do it," don't do it again. Then your life is perfect. Ara nare baba.(?) (end)

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, he also said, Prabhupāda, that "God, the heavenly father, who is greater than me, He has sent me here."

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is Bible. Yes. Here is. Practically nowadays there is no Christian. All heathens. Yes. Because they are... Therefore we are purchasing so many churches. And there are so many for sale. Nobody is going to. In London I have seen. Hundreds of churches are... some neighbor. Nobody goes. Only the churchtaker and the so-called one or two neighboring old women, that's all. So it is gone. Christian religion is now gone.

Yaśomatīnandana: Also, Prabhupāda, Christ never said himself that he's dying for their sins. But this is the later disciples of Christ, they claim that Christ has died for their sins.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? This is the fact?

Prajāpati: That's fact, yes.

Prabhupāda: Just see how they are. They're saying so many things.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh, oil drilling. So you are theologician. You start this movement, plus our Hare Kṛṣṇa party. And leaders, the propaganda should be that the, at least the priests, who are conducting religious activities, they, the priests and the leaders and the administrators, they must be sinless. Or... Sinless means they should not indulge in these four prohibited principles. Others may do. But the leaders, the political executive, administrators, and the priests who are conducting the church, they must be free from sinful life. Otherwise, there is no question of peace in the society.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: In the early days of science, about three, four hundred years ago, Śrīla Prabhupāda, many of the early scientists were persecuted by the church for their discoveries. So since that time, the scientists have declared war on religion, and they have been doing their best to try to disprove all religious things.

Prabhupāda: What they have discovered? These four hundred years, the scientists said that there is no God?

Prajāpati: No, they were... One scientist, Galileo, he was making all kinds of inquiries into saying that the earth is round and so many things, and the church of that day, the rascal priests, they put him to death because he was saying things that were not in the scriptures. Since that time, especially the last hundred years, the scientists are...

Prabhupāda: No, the things is that it is the government's duty to see that nobody is rascal, either the scientist is rascal or the priest is rascal. There must be real understanding. That is government's duty. Otherwise, if the priest says, "The scientist speaking against religion; therefore he should be hanged," so that is not good government. Government must see that whether the scientist is speaking the truth. That sense must be there. Yes, world is round. That is fact.

Room Conversation with Latin Professor -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So our method is easy. Instead of intellectual gymnastic, we take it very easily. And that acts. Now, so far our Society is concerned, we accept Kṛṣṇa as God. We're preaching Kṛṣṇa as God. So we have no difficulty. It is acting practically. So we... I may be Indian, Hindu, I may accept Kṛṣṇa as God. Maybe superstition, you may say. But why these European, Americans, Africans, they are accepting? And within very short time. Even Christian priests, they are astonished that "These boys, our boys, they did not care for God, never came to church, never inquired about God. Now they are mad after God?" They have not become mad. They are quite sane, educated. But why they are accepting Kṛṣṇa as God? Ask any one of them, they'll give explanation. And how it has become possible? Because they have accepted the method. So our guru's business is to teach him the method. Then he will understand everything.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: Also in the Constitution, Śrīla Prabhupāda, there is a thing called separation of church and state, that they would have...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is all right. We want to educate, we don't want to take part in administration. But the administration should be under our guidance; they should take advice from us, how to do it. That is required. We are not going to be president. We are satisfied in our humble temple.

Karandhara: According to traditional American values, though, the government should not take instruction from the church.

Prabhupāda: That is their... But... Church means... Because they've seen church is useless.

Karandhara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Now here is scientific church. They refuse to take advice from the church because at the present moment church is a bogus thing. So what is the use of taking advice from them?

Hṛdayānanda: That was actually... That was actually the reason they made that separation.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: They became disgusted with the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. It's simply, we can say, what is called? Stereotype, the church. Just like you said they want more pay. Payment... They have no knowledge, so what is the use of taking advice from such rascals? What is the use? But here it is not like that. We know the science of God. We know who is God. It is not a vague thing. Now you try to understand. Let there be educational institution. America has got so many universities. Let there be a department. There is already a religious department. So let the students learn the science of God. We have got so many books. Why they will not? They are actually appreciating. So this should be introduced in the university, in colleges, in schools. Why they should neglect such a, such an important scientific knowledge?

Devotee (1): When we try to introduce it sometimes, they very often say that it is sectarian.

Prabhupāda: Not sectarian. You do not know.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: And we have got the science. We are not speaking blindly or, what is called, sentimentally. (japa) (break)

Prajāpati: ...movement for the church today, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is called the ecumenical movement. Ecumenical movement means all the different divergent groups are trying to get together to understand..., you know, make a common ground. Now we have the perfect platform...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prajāpati: ...for giving them that common ground.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is your duty. You do it as theologicians. Bring them on the platform. This so-called church is going on. They're doing all sorts of sinful activities, and it is going on church and religion. Therefore the importance of Christian religion is diminishing. How they can bluff all the time? (japa)

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The Deity worship program is meant for us to keep us safe. If we neglect Deity worship, we shall also fall. But that is not the all duty finished. Arcāyām eva haraye pūjāṁ yaḥ śraddhayehate. Arcā means Deity. If anyone is worshiping the Deity very nicely, but na tad-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu, but he does not know anything more, who is devotee, who is nondevotee, what is the duty to the world, sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ, he is material devotee. He is material devotee. So we have to take the responsibility to understand who is actually a pure devotee and what is our duty to the people in general, and then you make advancement. Then you become madhyama-adhikārī. Madhyama-adhikārī, advanced devotee. Just like these people, either in India or here, they remain simply churchianity, going to the church without any understanding. Therefore it is failing. It is now... Churches are being closed. Similarly, if you do not keep yourself fit to preach, then your temples will be all closed in due course of time. Without preaching, you'll not feel enthused to continue the temple worship. And without temple worship, you cannot keep yourself pure and clean. The two things must go on, parallel. Then there is success. In modern time, either Hindus, Muslim or Christian, because in these places there is no teaching of philosophy, therefore they are closing, either mosque or temple or church. They will close.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Why not? Kṛṣṇa was in politics. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means all-round: social, political, philosophical, religious, cultural, everything. It is not one-sided. They take it as... They do not know. Therefore they are thinking it is a religious movement. No, it is all-including, all-including, all-pervasive.

Umāpati: Well, they have incorporated a particular philosophy into the constitution requiring separation of church and state, what they call separation of church and state in this country.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is... We have already separated. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. That is already separated.

Umāpati: So there are certain restrictions about religious organizations entering politics.

Prabhupāda: So what does it mean? Christians, they do not take part in politics?

Umāpati: Well, they can't do it as...

Karandhara: Not the churches.

Prabhupāda: No, not the churches. Our gṛhasthas will take part. The sannyāsīs will give advice. Directly the gṛhasthas will fight. Gṛhastha, not gṛhastha. There should be an administrative class. That is... Now it is prescribed in the Bhagavad-gītā. There should be four classes: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Now, it is spoken by God. Therefore it should be rejected? Does it mean? God is for everything. What is this nonsense? And Kṛṣṇa acted as kṣatriya. Therefore He should not be God? Is that very good argument? God is all-inclusive. And religion means God's word, carrying out God's word. That is religion.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No. Why ordinary men? Even those who are going to church, they are also praying God, "God, give us our daily bread." These rascals, they have made God as agent for their sense gratification. This is their philosophy. Even from the priest down to the rogues, they have made God as the agent of their sense gratification. That is materialism." God must supply whatever I want. That is God. Otherwise I don't care for God." This is their philosophy.

Prajāpati: But sometimes they might hit their thumb with a hammer or something and they will start swearing, calling on God's name, but in a very bad way.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. God's name. God's... In every respect, these materialists, they want to use God for their sense gratification. That is the prime fact. Our philosophy is that "God is not agent for your sense gratification, but you are agent for God's satisfaction." That is our philosophy, just the opposite. Even so-called religionists, they also take God as the agent of their sense gratification. They go to church to order God, "Supply our bread." Actually, He is doing. God is supplying bread. But they go for ordering, that "Give us our..." The rascal does not know, God is already supplying. Why should we go to church for ordering Him to supply bread? He is already supplying, even to the cats and dogs. They do not now what is the purpose of going to the church. That is going on.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Business or whatever nonsense it may be, but our first proposal is that you become sinless. But they will not agree. They will remain sinful, and still they will say, "In God we believe, we trust," these slogans. "We go to church, we pray," like that. This is the defect. A man has come for your... You are a physician for treatment. As soon as the physician says that "You don't do this," you say, "I cannot give up this." Then how he will be cured? Let him rot. This is the position.

Morning Walk -- December 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Certainly. Then their business will be finished. Then they will say, "Where we stand? It is all finished." Now you stand on a different platform.

Prajāpati: Yesterday, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in class, you mentioned how the churches, people could pay them for supposedly becoming very religious men. In Las Vegas, the capital of the gambling and the illicit sex and the intoxication, where all these things are very prominent, the churches there are very prominent also. These big demons, they pay large money to the churches and therefore they feel like they are very religious men even though they are committing all these sinful activities.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And by taking their sinful money, because they do not engage to Kṛṣṇa, they also become sinful. Affection. Infection. (break) They have mentioned something like sinful?

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Sujit, oh. (Bengali conversation regarding his being a student of science, chemistry and plastics engineering, and Śrīla Prabhupāda tells him that he attended Scottish Churches' College) (break) ...astrology?

Sujit: What is my opinion?

Prabhupāda: No. I am asking scientist.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: First of all I did not believe astrology in the beginning. I thought it was a pseudo science.

Prabhupāda: No, you may think, but what is the opinion of the scientist?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, scientists would say that there is no background.

Prabhupāda: So how it so happens?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because they say something which cannot be proved by experimental science, that does not work, calling science.

Prabhupāda: So then how do you say that life is from matter? That cannot be proved by experiment.