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Christianity (Conv. 1976)

Expressions researched:
"Catholic" |"Christian" |"Christian's" |"Christianity" |"Christianity's" |"Christians" |"Protestant"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 2, 1976, Madras:

Acyutānanda: I heard how she became interested in the Gītā. She was Christian, and her infant died. So she asked priests, "Where will this soul go, to heaven or hell? And why? Because he hasn't done anything." So she was never satisfied with their answers. So then she heard that there is transmigration of the soul. Then she became interested in the Gītā, India.

Prabhupāda: So did she understand?

Acyutānanda: Well, only up to transmigration of the soul.

Prabhupāda: She admits.

Acyutānanda: Yes. (break)

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: That is explained in other.... You have to take reference. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). I am also īśvaraḥ. That I explained so many times. But that does not mean I am paramesvara. Paramesvara is Kṛṣṇa. What is this building? Hm?

Acyutānanda: This is more of that Christian...

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Acyutānanda: Same seal as the Christian...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about that?

Acyutānanda: This is a mosque.

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1976, Nellore:

Indian man: The person offering.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That who takes it and puts in the pocket, he is a thief. And who takes it and offers to you, he is sincere friend. So we can use everything only for Kṛṣṇa. And therefore we are friend to Kṛṣṇa. And you are thief. Kṛṣṇa's property you are using unauthorizedly. Therefore you are a thief.

Devotee (3): (break) The Christians say that God has given us certain things to enjoy. Just like I was talking to one Christian about eating meat, and he said, "Well, I enjoy eating meat."

Prabhupāda: So, the tiger will say he will enjoy you. Why do you protest against the tiger?

Acyutānanda: In the Bible it says that everything was for the enjoyment of man. Man is sovereign over the animals.

Prabhupāda: Enjoyment does not mean that you kill him.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Acyutānanda: The Mohammedan community has refused, and Christian. So they feel...

Prabhupāda: So why not Hindus?

Acyutānanda: Hindus are doing. So they feel in a few generations the Mohammedan, Christian community will outnumber the Hindu.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that their plan?

Acyutānanda: Yes. Even to the point that Purī Śaṅkarācārya printed a book how everyone should have five children; all Hindus should have as many children as they want.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...authorities, do they believe in Bhagavad-gītā? Huh?

Indian man (1): Yes. Every day there you'll find Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Then why they are going against Bhagavad-gītā?

Indian man (1): That I don't know. Every day they are preaching...

Prabhupāda: Ask them that "What is the meaning of your reading Bhagavad-gītā daily if you go against it?"

Indian man (1): But they are not going, but the preachers who comes there, they are doing it.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: (break) Europeans, they are coming here not for religion, but they are coming for the Kṛṣṇa culture. You have to make that. Religion they have already got, Christian. Why they should come?

Mahāṁsa: They will say that this Kṛṣṇa culture is Hinduism.

Prabhupāda: Then he's a rascal. Prove it in the court. Kṛṣṇa is not Hinduism. Never.... Is there anything in the Bhagavad-gītā that Kṛṣṇa says, "I am for the Hindus or for the Indians"?

Acyutānanda: The Hindu law is so elastic, anyone who calls himself a Hindu or who practices any branch...

Mahāṁsa: Or puts on tilaka.

Acyutānanda: Puts on tilaka, he may have the lowest character or the highest standard, anyone, he will be all considered a Hindu.

Prabhupāda: So this should be taken to court, on the Supreme Court.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Acyutānanda: "Well, all religions say that they are the best. Jesus Christ says, 'Everyone who comes to me, they will get the grace of God.' So the same thing. But still they are Christians and you are Hindus."

Prabhupāda: So this cannot stay in the court. Kṛṣṇa's instruction is not for the Hindus. Nowhere it is mentioned.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The word "Hindu" doesn't appear in the Vedas anywhere.

Acyutānanda: Then why do you use in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness the Hindu caste marks, Hindus caste marks and tilakas? This is all Hinduism.

Prabhupāda: No, this is not Hinduism. Appears like Hindu. Just like you appear like an Indian sannyāsī, but you are not Indian.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Acyutānanda: Well, even Jesus Christ just said, "I am for all," but there is Christianity.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is a fact. Either God or God's representative, He is for everyone. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 5.29). That is the definition of sādhu. Titikṣavaḥ karunikaḥ suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām (SB 3.25.21). A saintly person..., as God is for everyone, a saintly person is for everyone. Why he should be for Hindu or Muslim or Christian? That is the definition of saintly person. Suhrdaḥ. Suhṛdaḥ means well-wisher. So either Christ or any Vaiṣṇava, he is well-wisher for everyone. (break) ...suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānām. We are preaching all over the world and they are appreciating.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Acyutānanda: Like in Guntur, in a Christian hospital, in the maternity ward they would not release the baby to the parents until they converted to Christianity.

Harikeśa: Where?

Acyutānanda: In Guntur. So they did it to one brāhmaṇa family, and he brought it to the court because he was more orthodox, and they were.... Only one or two articles came in the newspaper. It was hushed up.

Harikeśa: It takes ten years for the court to decide.

Acyutānanda: Well, immediately the police ordered that it had to be released. Or they put.... Just like the Mohammedan water, they put some bread in a well in a place like this, and then they can say, "You are all Christian now because you have drunk the bread that we have put there."

Prabhupāda: They are doing like that here?

Acyutānanda: Yes. In Europe, when Christianity first came to Constantine, the priests would stay in the top of a river, and they marched an army through the river, and the priest put the holy water, and when the army came on the other side they said, "Now you've all been baptized. You're all Christians." Mass conversion. (break) ...Hindu groups are mixing Hinduism and Indian nationality, it's fascism.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Acyutānanda: The Hindu groups. That was the point that enraged the government. The same paṇḍitas with the prāyaścitta, they don't like the Mohammedans, they don't like the Christians. They say, "You have created Pakistan, so all the Mohammedans should go there. This is Hindustan."

Prabhupāda: Murvi(?) meat here?

Indian man (1): Not everyone did.

Prabhupāda: Mostly.

Indian man (1): Mostly. Nowadays it is a fashion to eat when the brāhmaṇas take in a house.

Prabhupāda: Taking?

Indian man (1): Yes, they take it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The brāhmaṇas?

Indian man (1): Yes, most of them. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...sambhava. Where is brāhmaṇa? All śūdra.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's always a hypothesis.

Prabhupāda: If some children discuss some serious subject matter, what is the value? And they are all children in the cradle of nature, that's all. Prakṛteḥ kriya.... Therefore it is word, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). Just like children—"Ha! Sit down here"—he has to sit down. Then where is his freedom to discuss? Prakṛti says that "You sit down here. Don't go there." He has to accept. Then what is the value of discussion?

Acyutānanda: Mainly, these Karl Marx, they were angry at the Christian church for exploiting the poor masses, and that's the reason...

Prabhupāda: This is our...

Acyutānanda: ...so he has attacked. He has taken vengeance on this.

Prabhupāda: That they are doing. Still they are doing. Just like you said, some sprinkling water. They have no philosophy and they violate everything, what is stated there in Bible. Now you say that "Thou shall not kill;" they say, "Thou shall not murder." They are molding. Now this homosex they are sanctioning, man-to-man marriage. They are sanctioning abortion.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Just see. Is that religion?

Yaśodānandana: The simple fact that the Christians have to sprinkle water to convert means that they do not have any potency to by philosophy, to preach to them with strong philosophy.

Prabhupāda: There is no.... So, go on reading.

Harikesa: I'll backspace two sentences.

Acyutānanda: (break) "...have allowed us to wither away these different countries, and the religionists, they are keeping all the food. They are not distributing it."

Yaśodānandana: If we say that the Russia has no grains, they will say that they are big wheat producers in the southern part. They may counteract by saying, "We also produce..."

Acyutānanda: They had to purchase wheat from America.

Gurukeśa: Russia is importing its food grains now.

Prabhupāda: So why they cannot produce sufficient, such a big country?

Gurukeśa: And Eastern Europe, which is also communist, gets all its supplies from...

Prabhupāda: No, what is their explanation. Russia is the biggest country.

Morning Walk -- January 17, 1976, Mayapur:

Bhavānanda: Also in Krishnanagar, big Catholic church.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Five minutes. (break)

Jayapatāka: ...festival devotees will pay one rupee.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Oh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Such a short walk.

Prabhupāda: Why? They should come by walking.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, unless someone is carrying something heavy or is invalid, they shouldn't ride.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- January 20, 1976, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Place for the crows.

Prabhupāda: Bas. That's all. Not for the swans. They are admitting. Otherwise how it is selling unless they are admitting the value? Maybe a few, but they are realizing. I told you that one young man, very respectable, he came to me in airport, maybe Japan or some place. So he said, "Swamiji, can I talk with you?" "And yes, why not?" "Where you have got so vast knowledge?" And "This is not my knowledge. I am simply translating. That's all. It is Vyāsadeva's knowledge. It is not my knowledge." Mean... He appreciated the vast stock of knowledge. That is a fact. And this rascal says, even in India, that Bhāgavata is not written by Vyāsadeva. It is latest, within Christian era.

Morning Walk -- January 20, 1976, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Written within the last thousand years.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You know that? They say like that. So many rascals are there. And this is the only shelter, these, our centers, to be protected from all these rascals. These ISKCON centers are the only shelter. So you have to maintain it very nicely. There is no other shelter. All bogus more or less, all bogus. But you have to, not to... You quote, but the purpose of the verse you present reasonably. If you simply quote, it will not be simply very appealing. "Oh, they are simply..." Sometimes the Westerner criticize that, my Godbrother, Sadānanda? He was criticizing that "Your presentation..." "Your" means our, this Vaiṣṇava literature. "Simply you quote some Sanskrit verse, that's all." So these Sanskrit verses should be explained for understanding of the modern people. If you simply quote, it is not very appealing. In Durban..., Durban? We went to that university. You remember? That Ārya-samājī? He was speaking that "This is Hindu conception. Hindu conception." And what do you mean by Hindu conception? A child grows to become a boy. Is that Hindu conception? It is science. When Kṛṣṇa said, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13), that's a fact. It is applicable to the Hindus, to the Muslim, to the Christian, everyone. Why do you say it is Hindu conception? So you have to present in that way. They may not think that it is Hindu conception. Because they are all rascals, unless you explain it, that this is meant for everyone, they will misunderstand that Bhāgavata is for the Hindus or for the Indians. It is for everyone. But one must realize. There is no question of Hindu conception or Muslim conception.

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Duḥkha jaye sampatti paiye de bhagavān, jayo kara. (Bengali) Whole world, they have accepted God as order-supplier. "I order, and You supply." They all, this Christian Church also: "God, give us our daily bread."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And if God doesn't give, then God is dead.

Prabhupāda: Dead. This is going on. And our prayer is, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye: (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4) "I don't want anything. Simply engage me in Your service." Mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī. This is real prayer, which is taught by Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda? I was reading in a magazine that in Germany the people used to be pious, but after the Second World War...

Prabhupāda: They became atheist.

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) That's nice.

Hṛdayānanda: As you are always saying, Prabhupāda, these people are not becoming purified. This one man who Jagadīśa mentioned, he's the most famous Christian preacher practically in the Western world. Now he's becoming older, about sixty. Recently they asked him that "If you could live your life again, would you live the same life or a different life?" So he said, "I am very sorry because I spent too much of my time preaching. I should have spent more time with my family."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, he actually said that?

Hṛdayānanda: Yes. At the end of life this is his...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's the foremost Christian preacher in the world right now, Prabhupāda.

Hṛdayānanda: He said, "I accepted too many invitations to go preach. I should have spent time with my family."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That will make him more popular, and they'll say he's more religious.

Hṛdayānanda: (break) ...already left to preach.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice. (break) Eh? Dhunvanti, aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ.(?) This is Kṛṣṇa. In one second He can make it purified. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ (BG 18.66). Simply surrender.

Morning Walk -- February 18, 1976, Mayapura:

Acyutānanda: I felt uncomfortable. He was clicking his teeth and moving his hands and talking very quickly. It was very uncomfortable just to be in his presence. I was very nervous. He actually contradicted himself. I was saying we should be respected in all Hindu temples. He says, "Yes, you are Hindus." He says, "Jains and Buddhists, they are also Hindus." I said, "How is that?" He says, "Who is Buddha?" I said, "He is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa." He says, "No, aside from that, he is the son of a kṣatriya." I said, "Then you are bringing it back to birth again." And then he started groping for words and avoiding it. They want to make a unity of Hindus so that they can always sway elections, so that Mohammedan and Christians do not change the election.

Prabhupāda: And we want to make Mohammedans Hindus.

Acyutānanda: Yes. They also do that. They try and... Mainly they try and reconvert the Christians. They get some results. And they pander to the tribal castes so that they don't convert to Christianity. The Mohammedans and Christians have refused to use birth control, so they think that their population will soon outnumber the Hindus. So they are afraid that the Mohammedan and Christian block will sway elections in the future. (break)

Jayapatākā: Brahmacārīs don't like to take the instructions from the elder devotees, and then they want to take sannyāsa, so they think they can be independent and give orders themself and not listen.

Prabhupāda: Therefore not to be given all of a sudden. (break)...to become sevaka. Everyone wants to become sevya.

Morning Walk -- March 5, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Forgiving. Kṣamā-rūpaṁ tapasvinaḥ. Did Christ said that "Father, they did not know..."?

Haṁsadūta: Yeah. "Forgive them, for they know not what they do. Forgive them for they know not..."

Prabhupāda: Just see how much forgiving. This is saintly character. They're killing, and still forgiving. Kṣamā-rūpaṁ tapasvinaḥ. Christ is very ideal character, but these Christians, they not dignified him-degraded. So you can get on?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...how to respect food grain. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everyone should understand, "This food grain is supplied by Kṛṣṇa for our living. How can I disrespect?" This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore we say, prasāda-sevā, not "prasāda eating." Prasāda-sevā. Prasāda should be accepted as Kṛṣṇa. And our eating means to serve Kṛṣṇa. "Kṛṣṇa has given. Eat them. Yes. That's all."

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Satsvarūpa: "As a native of India now living in the West, it has given me much grief to see so many of my fellow countrymen coming to the West in the role of gurus and spiritual leaders. Just as any ordinary man in the West becomes conscious of Christian culture from his very birth, any ordinary man in India becomes familiar with the principles of meditation and yoga from his very birth. Unfortunately, many unscrupulous persons come from India, exhibit their imperfect and ordinary knowledge of yoga, cheat the people with their wares consisting of mantras, and present themselves as incarnations of God. So many of these cheaters have come, convincing their foolish followers to accept them as God, that those who are actually well versed and learned in Indian culture have become very concerned and troubled. For this reason I am very excited..."

Prabhupāda: Send this copy to Indira Gandhi.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of religious concept. This is nonsense. You have to... Just like when Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13)—that is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā—so does it mean a religion? Then why these nonsense take it as religion? It is a fact. How you can neglect the fact? Eh? Kaumāraṁ yauvanam jara. A baby becoming a boy, boy becoming a young man, is it religion? Either Hindu or Muslim or Christian or Buddha, everyone is becoming like that. Where is religion? Why do they take it as religion?

Satsvarūpa: It's religion because it's not empirical fact.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Satsvarūpa: It's not an empirical fact.

Prabhupāda: What is that empirical fact?

Satsvarūpa: That after you die, you take another body.

Prabhupāda: Apart from that, why, how the baby is becoming a boy? This is a fact. How a baby is becoming a child, a child is becoming a boy, a boy is becoming young man, a young man is becoming middle aged? Does it mean... Is it a particular type of religious system? Why this nonsense? What kind of intelligent person they are? It is a fact. Now we come to the old age. So I have come to the point of old age body after so many stages. Then where is the next? The next is tathā dehāntara: he'll get another body. This is very common sense.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: It cannot be amended. Just like this rule, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). When the change of body, how you can change the rule? A perfect definition. You cannot change it. (break) ...religion, the so-called religion, it is changed. Formerly there was no Christianity and now Christianity. Now, from Christianity, so many others, so many others. That is not religion.

Revatīnandana: If you say that your leader is perfect and you do not change your leader, we see that in India... This is where Kṛṣṇa came. He is your leader, but they do not follow Kṛṣṇa any more and India is in trouble.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the right thing.

Room Conversation With Radha-Damodara Sankirtana Party -- March 16, 1976, Mayapur:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No index. First chapter?

Prabhupāda: No, how you'll find it? Give me. Unless you have an index, list.... The purport of the verse is that even Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu—He is God himself, Kṛṣṇa Himself—He felt, alone, unable to do this task. He felt. So this is the position. You are cooperating; therefore I am getting the credit. Otherwise alone what could I do? Ekākī āmāra nāhi pāya bolo. Caitanya Mahāprabhu Himself wanted our cooperation. He is God, Kṛṣṇa. And therefore cooperation is very important thing. Nobody should think that "I have got so great ability. I can do." No. It is simply by cooperation we can do very big thing. "United we stand; divided we fall." This is our.... So be strong in pushing on Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and Kṛṣṇa will help. He is the strongest. Still, we must be combined together. Saṅkīrtana. Saṅkīrtana means many men combined together chanting. That is saṅkīrtana. Otherwise kīrtana. Saṅkīrtana. Bahubhir militvā kīrtayeti saṅkīrtana.(?) Bahu. Bahu means many, many combined together. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, combined together. All nations, all persons they should combine together. There is hope in our society, combination. There are Hindus; there are Muslims; there are Christians; there are black, white. Combine them. That looks very beautiful, just like combination of many flowers. There is black flower also. It looks nice, very nice. Each and every flower take alone; it is not beautiful, but when they are combined together, it looks very beautiful. It is attractive. And that is wanted. Because from the spiritual platform we are all working. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Spiritual platform, every one of us, we are servant of Kṛṣṇa. So where is the competition between one servant with another? There is.... Even there is competition, the center is Kṛṣṇa—"Who can serve more?" Therefore that competition is very welcome, because there is no personal interest. Everyone is trying how to serve Kṛṣṇa more. That is wanted. The competition is there in his real form and perverted form. In the real form Kṛṣṇa is the center, and the perverted form, I am the center. I compete with you to satisfy my senses more.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The Christians don't become old men?

Prabhupāda: So such fools there are that Bhagavad-gītā is speaking, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13)—"It is meant for the Hindus." Just see. Such fools there are. And Kṛṣṇa said, annād bhavanti bhūtāni: (BG 3.14) "If you have got enough food grains, then all the living entities are satisfied." Is it meant for the Hindus? So this is going on. "This is Hindu scripture." What do you mean by Hindu scripture? So they are interpreting in their own way. So Kṛṣṇa is not for the Hindus or the Musselmans or Christians. He is God. He is everyone. He is for everyone. And it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-yonīṣu kaunteya mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ: (BG 14.4) "In all species of life, as many forms of life are there, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ, I am the seed-giving father of all of them." So where is the question of Hindus? This is going on.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Madhudviṣa: I was reading in the paper the other day, how the Catholic church has drastically declined in the last ten years.

Prabhupāda: They must decline.

Madhudviṣa: They are losing one billion dollars a year in donations because they cannot...

Prabhupāda: They have to starve, not a single paisa donation. By law should be prohibited. No donation should be (indistinct).

Pañcadraviḍa: They used to be very strong. Everybody had to give ten percent of their wages.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Madhudviṣa: We can see just..., in our society that we have bought so many Catholic properties...

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Madhudviṣa: ...already. For our temples. In Toronto, I think, we bought a Catholic church, and Montreal and Australia also, that was Catholic property. They are selling all their property off because they cannot afford to maintain.

Pañcadraviḍa: Still in South America the people are Catholic and pious...

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) we wanted to purchase a convent...

Madhudviṣa: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Lokanātha: Last time there was a big crowd to hear you, Prabhupāda—the Christians.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Lokanātha: And you mentioned they were clapping for a long, long time after hearing you speak.

Prabhupāda: Not long, long time, but... Madhudviṣa, you remember that Catholic...

Madhudviṣa: Yes, they asked you about St. Francis, about him chanting to the dogs and the trees and the birds. And you said, "That is actually God-realization. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu."

Prabhupāda: And when they asked about Christ, and "He's our guru."

Madhudviṣa: You started your main lecture off there, "Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name." And then you went on to explain about the holy name.

Prabhupāda: Hm, (indistinct) are here. Why is it? Some wood. (break) ...grow foodgrains, simple living.

Devotee (1): The house is there, under the trees.(?)

Prabhupāda: Yes. (aside:) You have got this card.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: I think grain they would allow. So many Christian institutions from America donate butter and ghee and rice and wheat to the Christian churches here. I think they would not object. We have not tried, perhaps.

Prabhupāda: No, we are trying. In Bengal they are trying.

Dr. Patel: Not here. They allow. How we are getting that Australian ghee all the time?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: They allow from Australia.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: They should allow from States also.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...milk is cheaper than the bottle.

Dr. Patel: Just as wine is cheaper in Paris than water. I had to pay more for a glass of water. (Hindi) (break) It is not here, but...

Prabhupāda: It is in Delhi.

Dr. Patel: They should come here. So they may arrive some day.

Prabhupāda: So where is? Arrange to bring him. Otherwise they will not believe.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: They all come to see the devotees. These foreign devotees, they are enchanted to see them. All these times we were seeing the foreign, foreign, those padres, the Christians. Now we are seeing the sanātana...

Prabhupāda: And another the thing is that Ramakrishna Mission has constructed temple of Ramakrishna. Nobody goes there. It is lying barren.

Dr. Patel: You were planning to raise a temple in Kurukṣetra?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I have applied to the government for land, twenty-five acres land.

Dr. Patel: Very big. But is that land available to us?

Prabhupāda: Yes, available. And we have asked government to give us 350 acres of land in Māyāpur to construct Vedic planetarium, 350 feet high. It will require eight crores of rupees minimum.

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: I have not been able to find out any difference between the Bhāgavata-dharma and the Christianity. I have studied so thoroughly both of them. Actually Jesus Christ has taught nothing but Bhagavad-gītā and Bhāgavata. Still, the Christians, when they came here, these Portuguese, converted these people to Christians. They are fanatics. They are not...

Prabhupāda: No, they are doing.... They are doing in their own countries. In France the Roman Catholics and the Protestants, they are fighting and cutting each other's head. And still going on, it is. This is fanaticism.

Indian man: Political fanaticism.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: Yes, and said Sītā was a prostitute. I don't know.... And still, the government could, I mean, support them. It's too much of a joke.

Prabhupāda: But these.... You cannot.... Even on religious principle or so-called religion, you cannot make equality. The rogues will always remain, either Hindu, Muslim.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, program is there. Kṛṣṇa is speaking, "Do this program, execute," man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad... Program is there, but rascal will not take it. There is no difficulty.

Dr. Patel: The Christian prayers are also the self-surrender.

Prabhupāda: Any prayer. If we become God conscious...

Dr. Patel: "Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom..."

Prabhupāda: Then it is all right. And without God consciousness there is no qualification. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. There cannot be any good qualities. (break)

Dr. Patel: Then His kingdom can come on earth, not otherwise.

Prabhupāda: No, no. If one man becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, he can deliver many millions. Not expected... You cannot expect all to become, but if one man is there, Kṛṣṇa conscious, he can deliver. (break) Kaścid yatati siddhaye, yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścid... (BG 7.3). So it is not so easy thing, but if there is one Kṛṣṇa conscious person, he can deliver many millions. (break) ...ti śreṣṭhas ...lokas tad anuvartate. There must be one śreṣṭha, ideal man, and then everyone will follow. And there is no śreṣṭha. That is the difficulty.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Brian Singer: How do you treat.... In Australia mostly people are brought up in Christian religion. Do you treat...

Prabhupāda: Well, Christian religion.... We are not talking of religion. We are talking of science, fact. When I say that "You are young man. You'll become old man," either you are Christian or Hindu, Muslim, this is a fact. So don't bring in "The Christian believe this" or "Hindu believe this." Fact is fact. A child becomes a boy—a Christian believes; a Hindu believes; a Muslim believes. Everyone believes. So we are talking of the science. The child becomes a boy, a boy becomes a young man, young man becomes old man, and the old man, when this body becomes rotten, he accepts another body. So this is applicable for Bible or Christian or this or that, everyone.

Brian Singer: It's just different method of teaching.

Prabhupāda: No method. Same method. But if you say it, a different method, then we don't mind, but this is the subject matter of study. "Two plus two" is taught by the Christian and the Muslim, the Hindu. "Two plus two equal to four." There is no method of studying. The studying is the same. But if you take that "I'll read 'two plus two' in a Christian school," that is your choice. That's another thing. But wherever you go, "Two plus two equal to four," it is same. You call it Christian or Hindu or Muslim. That's your whims. Science is science. So we are preaching that "You are not this body; you are different from body." So it is equally necessary for the Christian, for the Hindu, for the Australian, for the American, for the African, everyone.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: If you say that.... I say that "You are not this body; you are soul." Now, if you say that "As Christian, we don't believe in it," then what can I say? Then I have to say that Christian have no clear idea of knowledge. There is no question of belief. Fact is fact. A child will become a boy. That's a fact. How you can say that "We Christian, we do not believe"? That means ignorance, less intelligence. It is a fact. Everyone knows. Child becomes a boy.

Brian Singer: What is the God that these other religions believe in? Is that...

Prabhupāda: First of all you try to understand yourself. Then talk of God. If you do not understand yourself, how you'll understand God? That is a big thing. Try to understand the small thing, that you are not this body. Talk on this subject matter, that as.... When you understand that "I, the proprietor of the body, I am different from this body," then you will understand God also, very easily. Because you are the proprietor of this body and you are given the controlling power of the body by thinking, feeling, willing, by acting.... You have got this body. You are sitting here. You can say, "Now I am going away." The body is under your control. You can do that. Similarly, when you understand this fully, then you'll understand that in this huge, gigantic body, material cosmic manifestation, there is a controller, easily. But if you do not understand yourself, how you can understand God? God is not different in quality than from you. God means like you in huge, unlimited quantity. As you have got little intelligence—you can create a wonderful thing, 747 airplane flying in the air—so God has got unlimited brain. Millions and trillions of universes are floating in the air. The process is the same.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: We have got activities day and night, but because the body is there, we have to eat, but we eat Kṛṣṇa prasādam. And naturally we go to sleep, to take some rest. Otherwise we are always engaged in Kṛṣṇa's business. We have no other business. So I go in the morning for little morning walk because the body, whole day if I sit down, it may be jammed. Therefore, for body's sake, I go for little walking. And then, whole day and night, I am sitting here, either chanting or writing books or talking with you, giving them direction. That's all. We have no other business than Kṛṣṇa's business. That is the peculiarity of this movement. Even if you take it is a religious movement, there is no religious movement in the whole world which has got twenty-four hours' engagement. You'll never find. The Christians go to the church once in a week for one hour, then closed. That is also not very regularly. Even if you take.... Our engagement. Twenty-four hours.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: And you should not kill. But all the Christians are killing.

Guest (3): Well...

Prabhupāda: And it is very hard to find out a woman chaste.

Guest (3): That's true.

Prabhupāda: Then where is Christian?

Guest (3): Well, see, this is the great thing of the atonement. See, when Christ suffered the sins of the world on Gethsemane...

Prabhupāda: So why for your sin Christ should suffer?

Guest (3): Christ suffered for my sins.

Prabhupāda: Yes, why?

Guest (3): Well, because he loved us and he was the only begotten son of God.

Prabhupāda: That means you'll go on committing sins and Christ will suffer?

Guest (3): No, see Christ only forgives when you repent. See what I mean? See, this is the thing I want to say...

Prabhupāda: But this has become a business, that I commit sin and repent. "We believe, I repent, and again I commit sin."

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Guest (3): Well, see this is the thing. Christianity has made it a business. So what we're saying is we...

Prabhupāda: That means they are not Christians.

Guest (3): That's right.

Prabhupāda: So then where is Christian?

Guest (3): Well, the Christian world that the majority of the people think is...

Prabhupāda: Majority is not the calculation. Minority. If one person carries out the order of Christ, then he is Christian.

Guest (3): Exactly.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise they are not Christians.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: We must follow; then it is all right. We don't follow, and still we rubberstamp, "I am Christian. I am this. I am that." This is the disease.

Guest (3): Would you agree that Christ is the greatest master of all?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We accept him as our guru.

Guest (3): What is the...

Prabhupāda: Guru means prophet, yes.

Guest (3): What about a savior?

Prabhupāda: Savior? Who saves the followers from the danger of materialistic way of life, which means transmigration of the soul from one body to another.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Do the Christians not think like that?

Guru-kṛpā: Yes.

Prabhupāda: They think like that.

Guru-kṛpā: "Christ has died for our sins," but they continue to sin.

Guest (3): Yes, many people do. But see, what I'm saying, what I'm saying is that I...

Prabhupāda: You are.... Individually it is all right. But people think like that, that "Christ has taken contract..."

Guest (3): Well, they're wrong.

Prabhupāda: "...that whatever nonsense we do, he will suffer, and let us do it."

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: But they say, still they will suffer. Therefore Christian religion is...

Guest (3): He has suffered...

Prabhupāda: The Christian people say like that, that "We cannot become pious. We.... Let us go on doing all nonsense, and Christ will suffer." Is that very good?

Guest (3): I agree with you, see. I really do. But what I'm saying is I believe that we're not all perfect, and we're working for perfection.

Prabhupāda: No, no, I say that what is the difficulty to become perfect?

Guest (3): Well, we have to learn and...

Prabhupāda: That means we are nonsense. If there is no difficulty to become perfect and still we remain imperfect, that means we are nonsense.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: You may not, but Christians.... The Christians, they put the cross, a reminder that "Christ suffered for us." This is the cross. So we became sinful, and the Lord, he suffered for us. We should stop this sinful activity. That is sanity. But "Christ will suffer, he'll be repeatedly crucified, and we shall go on with our nonsense activity." Is that religion?

Guest (3): Well, I agree with you there.

Prabhupāda: So that is the point.

Guest (3): But I have a different thought and feeling.

Prabhupāda: You may have, but we are talking on the principle that if we are so base and fallen down that we go on committing sinful life and "Christ will be crucified; I'll be saved," that way is said, what kind of religion? "One should continually suffer for my sin, and I am free to act sinfully." Is that religion?

Guest (3): Well, we don't believe that Christ continues to suffer.

Prabhupāda: No, but the Christians do that. They are maintaining.... Christ says, "Thou shall not kill," and they are maintaining thousands of killing house, and still they are passing on as Christian.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Guest (3): Well, we are. That's what we're here for.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that "You are not Christian. Don't call yourself as Christian. You are persistently disobeying, beginning..." Christ said, "Thou shall not kill," and the Christians began killing Christ, crucifying Christ. And that is going on still, in large scale, and they are still Christian. The Pope is eating meat and.... I do not wish to say so many things. These are going on, and still, they are Christians. What can I say?

Guest (3): Do you believe that...

Prabhupāda: It is not a question of believe or not believe. We are talking of fact.

Guest (3): Well, okay. Would, say, the cutting down of a plant, vegetable.... You are killing the growth there. Is that a living matter?

Prabhupāda: Killing means that you have to eat something. Our philosophy is that we cannot stop killing, but there is no unnecessary killing.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Guest (2): Well, when you disobey His orders, and He's got many commandments, and they are in the book.

Prabhupāda: So therefore I was raising that question, that anyone who is not obeying the Ten Commandments of the Christian religion, then how he's a Christian?

Guest (2): How is he a Christian?

Prabhupāda: Yes, if he does not obey.

Guest (2): If he does not obey them he is breaking the orders of God.

Prabhupāda: So then these question do not arise at all, because he does not know what are sins and what are to be avoided and how to love God. These things required. There is a process. Just like if you want to love a girl or a girl wants to love you, there is a process. Unless there is no love. If you do not follow the process.... Suppose.... These are the general principles. If you love somebody you give something, some presentation. That you have given me, the presentation. It is a question of love. You are not giving to anyone, but you have got some love. So you give something to God. The first question of love is that "What you are giving to God?"

Guest (2): What am I giving to God?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I met one Christian in Florida. He once said that by hearing our philosophy he felt he became a life member.

Prabhupāda: What is the date? Twenty-third?

Hari-śauri: Twenty-third.

Guest (2): It's a good philosophy. I am really respect the Kṛṣṇa's for their discipline, because this is a great thing that people of the world need to learn, is to discipline your body, because we think that if you discipline your body, the spirit of God can dwell with you more.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Devotee (2): The Christians are behind it in Whangarei.

Prabhupāda: So, can they pass such law?

Devotee (2): I don't think so. We're having.... Some of our men are going to meet with the council the day after tomorrow at the meeting. They're open to our side. The reason is that the businessmen have complained, some of the businessmen have complained.

Prabhupāda: Not all of them. You take some signature from other businessmen.

Devotee (2): Yes, all right.

Prabhupāda: You present that.

Devotee (2): Yes. The men who are going to speak are businessmen, devotees. One is an architect.

Prabhupāda: Then he can organize so many signatures.

Room Conversation -- May 1, 1976, Fiji:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Someone in material consciousness cannot understand God? So then what of all these religions, for example, Muslim and Christian religion? Generally speaking, they don't even accept the existence of soul.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they're not religion. They're cheating. This is not religion, this is cheating.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So simply they're talking about God?

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is this?

Hari-śauri: This is dob juice, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, you can keep that. Actually, there is no religion. In the name of religion, some farce is going on.

Room Conversation -- May 2, 1976, Fiji:

Guru-kṛpā: Even though one may get many followers, that is not...

Prabhupāda: Many? What you...? Many followers.... The philosophy you present, it must be followed by everyone. That is wanted. You have got, say, ten thousand followers. That does not mean success. Everyone has got some followers. This.... What is that? Guruji Maharaja. He has got also so-called followers. The T.M., he has got also some followers. Everyone has got some followers. But what kind of followers they have? That is quality. Everything has quality. Simply quantity is not. There are many Christians. Even up to date, some Christian fair or.... Many millions will come. What is the quality? Quality is all meat-eater. But Christian means he should not kill. Where is the Christian? So we have to test by the quality, followers. Not many followers, the quality of the followers. My Guru Mahārāja used to say like that, that "If I get at least one quality disciple, then all my labor will be success." He was saying like that: quality, not the quantity. By quantity if one is amazed, then he is also goru. By quality—what kind of followers? That is the.... From the very beginning my strictures are there, that "You have to follow this"—quality. If I were..., "No, you can do like Vivekananda. Yes, what you can, whatever you like," then I think quantity would have been very, very big. But I don't say. I make him promise before the fire, before the Deity, before guru.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: They're envious. Sinful means that is the cause of their becoming envious. (break) ...law. Religion means the order of God. Simple definition. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Just like law, we keep to the right or left, order of the government. One who obeys this law, he's good citizen. One who disobeys, he's rascal. Similarly, dharma means the order of God. So one who obeys the order of God, he is really religious. One who does not, he's rogue, duṣkṛtina. This is simple. (break).... Christian. Now, what is the order of God? The Ten Commandments. If one abides by the Ten Commandments, he's really Christian. Take Buddhism; if he abides by the order of Lord Buddha, then he's right. Take Muhammadans even. So it may be one is Muhammadan, one is Christian, or one is Buddhist, one is Hindu, but if he abides by the order of God, then he's religious. Otherwise bogus. We are concerned Vedic religion. Our conclusion is that to approach Lord Viṣṇu. Oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. This is Vedic, Ṛg-mantra. Or Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). If one abides by this, then he's religious, or really religious. If he does not obey, then where is the religion? There is no religion. The instruction is here. One has to understand the philosophy from Bhagavad-gītā rightly and appreciate, himself, and preach. This is wanted.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What is the quality of a person who is actually faithful?

Prabhupāda: He's accepting eagerly Bhagavad-gītā if he's really follower of God. Because there is nothing extraordinary in the Bhagavad-gītā. It is the words actually for God to speak. You may call Kṛṣṇa or otherwise, but.... Just like sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). This can be said by God only. Otherwise who can say that "You give up everything; surrender unto Me"? It can be said by God only. Either you talk of Hindu or Muslim, but ask one that "If God says, 'You surrender unto...,' will you refuse?" Let him become Muslim or Christian. So nobody can refuse the order of God. That is faithfulness.

Guru-kṛpā: Śrīla Prabhupāda, why are there so many pseudo religions then?

Prabhupāda: There is no religion! This is the only religion.

Guru-kṛpā: Then why do they mingle at all? Why do they even get involved?

Prabhupāda: Therefore we say that one who has no faith in God, he's a rascal, miscreant.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a.... The Christians, they have a boat two hundred miles off the China coast, and they put little Bibles in cellophane bags and let the Bibles float into China.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Balloons.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Balloons. That's how hard it is to preach there.

Prabhupāda: That is also nonsense.

Morning Walk -- May 15, 1976, Honolulu:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The Christian may argue that God is all-powerful, so God has created the soul, and from that point the soul is eternal.

Prabhupāda: Soul is eternal, we admit.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But only from that point, not in the past.

Prabhupāda: Not in the past?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, because according to Biblical philosophy you only have one lifetime in this world.

Prabhupāda: Then who goes to heaven?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Persons who adopt the principles.

Prabhupāda: And if one life, then who goes to heaven and who goes to hell?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Very few go to heaven.

Prabhupāda: Anyone, if he goes to hell or heaven, then why do you say "one life"? Then another life. Otherwise what is the meaning of going to heaven or hell?

Hari-śauri: No. They get one chance to good or bad, and then finish.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Hari-śauri: They get one chance. Do good or bad. Then you either go to heaven or to hell. But you don't get another chance.

Prabhupāda: But if he goes heaven means there is another life. How do you say "one life"? This is defective philosophy.

Morning Walk -- May 15, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...rejected. That is Vedic process.

Hari-śauri: Actually, there's so many different understandings that the Christians have of the same thing. They all have different type of philosophy.

Hayagrīva: No, Christ never said that. Christ never said you only have one life.

Prabhupāda: So that is real philosophy. That is real philosophy.

Hayagrīva: This is the.... All of this evolved from the church fathers.

Prabhupāda: That is all defective, unscrupulous.

Rādhāvallabha: (break) ...come up to us on saṅkīrtana, and they are smoking a cigarette, and they say, "Do you accept Jesus Christ?"

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Rādhāvallabha: They say, "You cannot be successful unless you accept Jesus Christ like us." But they were smoking.

Prabhupāda: We accept. Rather, you do not accept. Jesus Christ said "Thou shall not kill." We strictly observe that, but you kill. You are not a Christian.

Morning Walk -- May 15, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: We accept. Rather, you do not accept. Jesus Christ said "Thou shall not kill." We strictly observe that, but you kill. You are not a Christian.

Hari-śauri: "But that's just an ideal, the Ten Commandments. You're not expected to follow."

Prabhupāda: No, that is your explanation. That is your concoction. (break) ...take it. As soon as you disobey Ten Commandments, you are not a Christian. You are heathen. (break) And the thing is that religious faith should not be discussed on philosophy because everyone has got some, his own concocted faith. That is not philosophy. Faith is different. "I believe," "You believe," "I do not believe"—that is not philosophy. (break) ...philosophy in Bhagavad-gītā that asmin dehe.... Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13), there is soul. This is philosophy. Religion without philosophy is sentiment, and philosophy without religion is mental concoction. So both of them should be combined. Then it is perfect.

Room Conversation -- Honolulu, May 20, 1976 :

Prabhupāda: People are so intelligent that when the representative of Kṛṣṇa speaks, they (indistinct) enemies, and sometimes they crucify, kill. So people are so kind that they are not killing. Otherwise, why Christ, (indistinct) was killed? What fault? What is his fault? Just see. Was there any fault in his words? He advised, "Don't kill," and he was crucified. We have to deal with such rascals. I may be representative, but he is directly son of God. People are so rascal that they did not believe even the son of God, what to speak of His representative. What is that? Why Jesus Christ was killed? What was his fault? People are (indistinct). What the Christians will ask? Therefore we are (indistinct) and not only that, they have been giving this idea that "For our sinful reaction Christ has taken contract, so let him suffer being killed(?)." Cow-killing is very, very sin, "That's all right; don't mind. Christ will suffer." How easy understanding they have.

Room Conversation -- Honolulu, May 20, 1976 :

Prabhupāda: That there was something (indistinct), one picture (indistinct). There was competition that painter has to paint a picture that there is (indistinct) of the mother with child, so what would be the facial expression. So the painter has to express the feelings (indistinct). That one painter he painted a picture of the mother, intimate picture. (indistinct). So that is real life. You may paint (indistinct) expression, that is artificial. The real thing, the mother cannot see it. That mother, that is (indistinct). It is (indistinct). So how the mother can see it? There is (indistinct) being killed. So it is not very easy to (indistinct) cover the mother, there is no question of him painting so many rascal expressions. That is (indistinct). All (indistinct) in the name of religion. All rascals. All rascal. Sinful. They do not know what is God, they do not know (indistinct) what is the meaning of love. Simply rubber-stamp: "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim." They are interested only in sense gratification. There cannot be any religion. So this cheating type of religion is rejected. Dharmaḥ projjhita kaitavaḥ. All cheating type of religion is kicked out. This is no religion at all. All bogus. Is that religion, (indistinct) the instruction of Christ, (indistinct) kill Him. Is that religion? And they are showing how He was killed.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Sarva-yoniṣu. All kinds of forms of life, 8,400,000 different forms of life. So "The material nature is the mother and I am the seed-giving father." Why they do not accept this philosophy? And everything is going on. Just like in the family the mother is there and the father is there. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the father, and material nature is mother, and we are all sons. If we accept this simple philosophy, everything will be all right. Why they do not accept this philosophy, so many rascal philosophers? This simple philosophy. And this is a fact. What is this body? This body is this earth. "Dust thou art, dust thou beest." So the mother is this material nature. I've got this body. And the father, He is Kṛṣṇa, or God. What is wrong in accepting this philosophy? If this simple philosophy is accepted, the whole world will be happy. But they'll not accept it. These rascals will come, and speculate rascal philosophy. (laughing) With this simple philosophy... United Nations is there. Why do they not accept this simple philosophy? If God is the supreme father and in every religion they accept that, at least the Christian religion accept that supreme father, God, and the material nature is mother. And we are all sons. Not only human beings, every living being, even the dogs. This is philosophy, real philosophy.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1976, Honolulu:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Not yet.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He, American people (indistinct) say, "In God we trust." That's very nice, but why you take this philosophy blindly? Find out who is God and why you should trust. That is intelligence. The slogan is nice, why don't you fight on this issue? The Kṛṣṇa Consciousness movement. You can fight on this issue. Intelligently, if we'll put (indistinct). We trust in God, but what is God? Eh? Hayagrīva? They like to trust in God. Then ask them what is God. They cannot reply.

Hayagrīva: They would say the Christian conception of God.

Prabhupāda: Any conception, God is not Christian, not Hindu, not...

Hayagrīva: They would say, "God is the Almighty Power."

Prabhupāda: That's all right. (end)

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Don't misunderstand. It is.... Religion, it means a kind of faith. Just like you are Christian, I am Hindu. So you have faith in Christian religion, I have faith in Hin.... That is another thing. But this is.... We understand religion in a different way according to English dictionary. But real religion means the law given by God. This is the shortcut definition of religion. And if you do not know what is God, and if you do not know what is His law, then what is the meaning of religion? There is no meaning of religion. If blindly, if I have some faith in some dogmas and ritualistic ceremonies, that is not religion. Religion means the science by which you can understand God and the law of God. That is religion. It is not the kind of faith. Just like state laws. You may have faith or no faith. The state law is law; you have to obey it. Just like I have come in America. In our country, the street law is "Keep to the left." So I have come to America, you say "Keep to the right." If I say, "No, I have no faith in this 'Keep to the right.' " No, I must obey. That is law. Similarly, religion means you may have faith or no faith, but you must obey. It is a must. It is not optional. That is religion. That, I explained it many times that (indistinct) means characteristic. Just like everyone of us, we are servant. So, the living entity is servant. He may have faith or no faith, he must be a servant. And if you don't become servant of God, then you become servant of dog. That is your advancement of civilization. When there is no service for God, just like here we have got service for God, there is no question of serving dog. But when we forget service of God, then automatically we become service of dog. But service.... I am servant, that's a fact. And voluntarily keep a dog and serve him. They have no master, then I keep a master, dog, cat. You call it by the name, pet. What is a pet? I do service, that's all. So this is our advancement of civilization. We have refused to serve God, and you voluntarily accept to serve dog. Now in India, they are also learning. (chuckles) And formerly, dog keeping, dog there was in the neighborhood. But they were not allowed to enter the room or house. Now, they are keeping dogs just like the Western people keep. They are making dog show and so on, so on.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: They don't have..., the reason they don't have an idea is because before you came to America, the understanding of the science of God was presented on a kindergarten level, the Bible. So it did not satisfy their scientific mind. So because before you came to give them the Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, they had not information, and they did not accept the Christian version.

Prabhupāda: No, apart from Christian or Hindu, the general mass of people, how they can say that there is no creator? From common sense?

Rāmeśvara: They are accepting authority, and so they say...

Prabhupāda: Apart from authority, from practical experience....

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are fools.

Prabhupāda: ...how one can...? Eh?

Ṛṣabhadeva: They are trying to avoid their responsibility to that creator. They don't want to accept.

Prabhupāda: You can avoid the creator, but you cannot say there is no creator.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: If actually they are after something reality, they must accept. If they are actually after something reality. It is natural. They have been disgusted with this Christianity. Useless, that's all. But if they are actually serious, then they'll accept knowledge. (japa)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break)...exhibit of Bharadvāja's in the temple of the Dāmodara and Mother Yaśodā.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1976, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The Christian missionary was trying to convert the people; so they would not listen. But then when he told that, ah...

Hṛdayānanda: In hell there are no newspapers.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In hell there are no newspapers, they went, "Oh!" (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Trivikrama: Coal miners.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, coal miners.

Prabhupāda: No newspaper, it is horrible. Ask the health department of government, that "You write on the cigarette box: 'It is injurious.' " What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: We are preaching that; give us some money.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1976, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When people ask me, "How many members do you have, how many people?" I don't answer any more "Five thousand," or something like that. Now I tell them many millions. Because the thing is when they ask, when you ask someone how many Christians are there in America, of such and such sect, they don't mean priests, they mean also the people who are coming.

Rāmeśvara: Congregation.

Prabhupāda: Congregation.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we should give that number, not as five thousand, but as so and so many millions.

Prabhupāda: That I say, when people ask me that how many followers you have got in India.... They're wholesale.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: You once said that Christianity will die out. We will be the only religion left.

Prabhupāda: I do not remember that.

Rāmeśvara: Someone told me like that.

Prabhupāda: Christianity's already dead. We are purchasing the churches.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means dead.

Hari-śauri: And their priests are coming to join us as well.

Prabhupāda: See, this temple, this was closed. There was no men. And now balcony. In the same place, the same countrymen. That is the proof. This building. These boys and girls and men, they are not imported from India.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are formerly Christians and Jews.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: This is the rascal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) You say no meat, fish or eggs, no gambling, no intoxicants, no illicit sex, and we are all coming gladly. That means you're offering something alternative. They're not offering any alternative.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they have nothing to give. Simply denial, how it will act?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes when I talk with Christians, I tell them that "The reason that you're not feeling any bliss is that you're not following the way Jesus lived. We are living like him. He was wearing robes, he was living simply. But you, you're living in big fancy buildings with so many washing machines and this machine, and that your whole life is complicated."

Prabhupāda: Grievous folly is that they are disobeying the Ten Commandments.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Confusing must be. How you can understand the subtle laws of God? You have dull brain, with cow dung. (laughs) You cannot understand.

Arcita: So according to the Christians, Śrīla Prabhupāda, Jesus Christ was born without contact of any material father. He was divinely placed in the womb of Mary.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Divinely placed by the Father is God. That's all. You cannot deny the fact. And he claims: "I am son of God." Then, what is the argument?

Arcita: Is there any such experience in the Vedic literatures, Śrīla Prabhupāda? An example we can cite also?

Prabhupāda: No, no, Vedic literature, apart from. Your argument, that without father, how it is without father? Without father, there is no question of birth; without mother, there is no question of birth. Our point is that without father there is no creation.

Morning Walk -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So if there is next life—they believe—then what they are doing for the next life?

Rāmeśvara: The Christians only believe in one life, and after that one life you either go to heaven or to hell forever.

Hṛdayānanda: For that reason people have rejected Christianity, because they cannot explain, for example, why a child, for example, is being killed. He's innocent. But by our philosophy it can be explained. For that, people, intelligent people...

Prabhupāda: Christian religion is speculation. All these philosophers, talking on Christian religion, speculating.... No clear idea.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They are successful if they follow the education. Just like Christ, he's speaking of kingdom of God. So if you follow Christ, there is hope that you go to kingdom of God. But if you don't follow, you simply rubberstamp, "I am Christian," then it is useless.

Richard: But there are other...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are of the same type.

Richard: Yes, but do they have any value as far as you are concerned?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, they have value.

Richard: Okay, that's what I was trying to get at.

Prabhupāda: There is value.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Richard: Right, but those people who study say, okay, to use an example, the Pope. Now there is a man who has dedicated his whole life, publicly, personally, spiritually, however you define it, to Christianity, specifically to the Catholic Church. Now apparently, and for all intents and purposes, his life seems to work for him.

Prabhupāda: The thing is, the Catholic Church is the original Church, I think.

Richard: The original Christian Church, yes.

Prabhupāda: Then why there are so many varieties?

Richard: Well, because...

Prabhupāda: Now hundreds and thousands of churches are there.

Richard: Right. Other people find that...

Prabhupāda: That means they don't like Catholic Church. They don't like. So they are missing the point.

Richard: Of the Catholic Church.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Richard: True, I agree. But is the point of the Catholic Church the only point that's to be made?

Prabhupāda: And if you accept Christianity, then the Catholic process, I think—I do not know—that is only way.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Richard: But is the point that the Catholic Church makes the only point to be made?

Prabhupāda: Not Catholic. I mean to say, any church original, authoritatively, that is genuine. If you deviate from that, then you cannot claim to that school.

Rāmeśvara: It's an example that if the Catholic Church is presenting the teachings of Jesus as it is, and then later on other churches deviate a little, then to deviate from the teachings of Jesus is bad, and to stick strictly to the teachings of Jesus is the only way, in Christianity. That's the idea.

Richard: Yes, but the goal is similar in Christianity.

Prabhupāda: The goal cannot be similar. If you deviate, the goal is different.

Richard: No, no.... The.... Okay, the goal generally is the same.

Prabhupāda: There is no question. Goal is one, so if you deviate, then you go away from the goal.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Richard: Right, but the goal seems to me, as I have studied Christianity...

Prabhupāda: What is the goal?

Richard: The goal of Christianity is to make a better life here on earth for the followers of Christ and after death.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. That is our preaching also.

Richard: That's your goal also. Okay...

Prabhupāda: Just like a student is being trained up in medical college, and when he becomes practitioner, the same thing. There is no change. There is no change.

Richard: Yes, I think you are talking about specific...

Prabhupāda: No, no, this is.... Take Christian religion. So going to the church, it is practicing how to establish relationship with Christ and God. So after death, if he's perfect, he goes back to home, back to Godhead.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Richard: Sure, it's his reality.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then why should you canvass him, "Please come to the church and accept Christianity"?

Richard: Frankly, I don't know. I don't really know why he should be asked to go to church.

Prabhupāda: Therefore.... Then there is no need of church. Everyone can do whatever he thinks reality. That is no standard reality.

Richard: No, reality is not in itself a goal. It just is.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the goal?

Richard: I would say, you know, we discussed this earlier, it's a, it's trying to find what makes one's life worthwhile.

Prabhupāda: Trying to find, that means you do not know.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: This Reverend Moon, he has started a very big movement among Christians. His philosophy is that the mission of Jesus Christ was to have sex life so that there will be perfect children.

Prabhupāda: Just see what nonsense he is.

Rāmeśvara: And they crucified him before he was married.

Prabhupāda: Even Christ.... Eh?

Rāmeśvara: His philosophy is that Jesus Christ was crucified before he got himself married and had some children—"Therefore I am Jesus Christ again, coming to make children. I am the new Messiaḥ."

Prabhupāda: This rascal is.... And foolish persons are accepting him. How.... No, they are doing that. They are sanctioning homosex, sanctioning abortion. They've lost, Christianity and all.... (japa) This is Beverly Hills? No. Rancho Park.

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Because they are spiritually enlightened. That is the cause of brightness. And materially involved-moroseness. Because it is ignorance. Material life means life of ignorance. And spiritual life means life of enlightenment. That is the difference. Material life is called tamas. Tamas means darkness. Tamaso mā jyotir gamaya. This is the Vedic mantra. Don't remain in darkness. But people cannot understand. "I am living in the light. Why I'm darkness?" Darkness means without any spiritual enlightenment. That is darkness. So the Vedic injunction is "Don't remain in darkness. Come to the light." The light is my spiritual life, and material life means darkness. Because he does not know what is going to happen next. You are under the laws of material nature. The nature will act according to the association you make, exactly. You do not know that you are infecting some contagious disease. You may not know it, but it will act. In due course of time, you'll develop that disease and suffer. Similarly, without knowledge, in ignorance, imperceptibly we are associating with a certain law of nature, and we shall be victimized. We may not know it, but we shall be victimized. That is the life of ignorance. A child does not know that if he touches the fire it will burn and it will cause some disease, some sore. He does not know. But he, somehow or other, if he touches fire, these things will come. This is the life of ignorance. You do something, you do not know what is the effect. But the effect will come, and you'll have to suffer. You know or not know, it doesn't matter. That is ignorance. Life of darkness. The Christian theologicians, they say that "Why shall I suffer for my...?" They do not believe in the karma, fruitive activity. But that means ignorance. They have no sufficient knowledge. Karma is there and effect is there, but they do not know it. Poor fund of knowledge. Therefore it is failing. They have failed, these Christian priest, to explain everything philosophically.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Jayādvaita: But then they don't accept that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the only process for understanding God. They want to maintain Christian religion, or.... Not Christian religion, but sense gratification and, at the same time, God consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Well we are not denying sense gratification. We want to regulate. That's all.

Mādhavānanda: Actually, we have the best sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: Hmm? Yes.

Mādhavānanda: On the radio program, one lady, she was asking questions. She was very envious. "And you are living in such a palace."

Prabhupāda: Why shall I not? Government servants, they live in the best place. We are Kṛṣṇa's servants, the supreme government. We must have the best car, best house, the best food, (laughter) everything. You are unfortunate, you are wretched, you cannot possess this. We are government's servants. Why the governor is living in the best house of the city?

Mādhavānanda: We said, "You can live here with us." She said, "Thank you."

Prabhupāda: Without any charges. Did you not say? But as soon as you shall say there is no tea, he'll go away. "Oh, horrible." (laughter) Just see. And you have to rise early in the morning. "Oh, it's still horrible." And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. "Ah, still."

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Satsvarūpa: Detroit Yacht Club. Boat owners. (break) ...by some Catholic monks who were keeping some drug rehabilitation. They were leasing it from us. We still have a lease to the owner. So they are subleasing it. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...to stop drug habit?

Satsvarūpa: Yes. They have.... People who are addicted, they come and live there voluntarily and say "I'd like to try to stop." They call it "half-way house," because they are half still addicted, but they're trying to stop. So maybe six of such addicts are living...

Prabhupāda: Only six.

Satsvarūpa: Yes, not many. Here's the place, right here. And some monks live there, and somehow or other they try to get them to stop.

Prabhupāda: Which year I came first? Bhagavān was in charge.

Room Conversation with Ambarisa and Catholic Priest -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Hari-śauri: It used to be what they call a Christian Brothers school.

Prabhupāda: That we wanted to purchase?

Hari-śauri: Oh, that nunnery.

Prabhupāda: Nunnery. So they wanted to maintain themselves by becoming washermen. Still, they could not maintain. They eventually became washerwoman to maintain. Huge establishment. So I wanted, negotiation was there. They persisted that the church should not be broken. No? To be broken.

Hari-śauri: Yes, there were different sections. They had a school there and,...

Prabhupāda: So we thought that we shall use it as temple. That they disagreed. "No, you cannot keep it, you have to break it, then we can sell to you." Then why shall I break it? We shall pay for it and break it? No. Then the negotiation failed. But a huge land, and we are prepared to purchase. In England, in London, I was..., one, two churches I was negotiating, and one church, that man, he said, "I'll burn into ashes. I'll not sell it to Bhaktivedanta." (laughs) Recently we wanted to purchase in St. James Park one nice house. So they did not give us. They..., we offered better price; still they did not give us.

Morning Walk -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Satsvarūpa: ...God, Christ, they believe that Christ is God, some Christians.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Many different understandings.

Satsvarūpa: Some say he's a perfect man. Some say a son of God or he's actually God. (break) ...a spirit within.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: ...Holy Ghost is like Brahman and Paramātmā. All-pervading God and God within the heart speaking.

Satsvarūpa: And Jesus Christ is the only son of the Lord, and he's the Lord also at the same time.

Hari-śauri: And they say he has a material body, and he is God incarnated into flesh.

Prabhupāda: We also say. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ.

Satsvarūpa: The guru is as good as God. And only by the guru...

Prabhupāda: But he's servant.

Morning Walk -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Satsvarūpa: Yes. And we also say only by the mercy of the guru. But they say only through Jesus. (break) ...so many similarities. Sometimes a Christian asks, "What is unique about your religion? Why should I...? It seems to be the same as what we have."

Hari-śauri: The unique thing is that we're actually able to follow teachings, whereas they are not.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: I lived in one Christian monastery, Śrīla Prabhupāda, before, with monks. There is no bliss. They don't have kīrtana and prasādam.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda!

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

George Gullen: Yes, this is true. My father was a Christian minister all of his life, and he had very deep beliefs about the spiritual matters. He felt very strongly, as you do, that the body was temporary and that his spirit would find its way into some other form of life, and he believed very strongly in life after human death, very much so. He believed in a matter he called cosmic consciousness, in which the spirit had far greater powers than physical powers. He had similar kinds, I believe, of beliefs that you do. I have some beliefs myself that the human body being quite temporary, that years are not long for it, that there must be more to life than just the physical side.

Prabhupāda: Everyone's body is temporary, either human body or cat's body, dog's body. But the human body is important because in the human body we have developed consciousness by which we can understand what is God. The cats and dogs, they cannot, they haven't got that developed consciousness. Therefore if we do not use this developed consciousness for understanding God and our relationship with Him, then we are no better than cats and dogs. Cats and dogs cannot be educated about God, but a human being can be educated. That is the distinction between animals and man. But modern education is keeping them in ignorance about God, so they are no better than cats and dogs. And how can you bring peace among cats and dogs? Can you bring in peace calling all the dogs of your city and sit down peacefully? No, that is not possible.

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: We call Supersoul, that is God. The idea is in Christianity also, "Holy Ghost" like that. Supersoul and the ordinary soul. We living entities, we are ordinary souls, and God in His all-pervading feature, He is Supersoul. Find out this verse: kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata.

Hari-śauri:

kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi
sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata
kṣetra-kṣetrajñayor jñānaṁ
yat taj jñānaṁ mataṁ mama
(BG 13.3)

Prabhupāda: Kṣetra-kṣetrajñayor jñānaṁ yat taj jñānaṁ mataṁ mama. English?

Hari-śauri: "O scion of Bharata, you should understand that I am also the knower in all bodies, and to understand this body and its owner is called knowledge. That is My opinion."

Prabhupāda: First of all knowledge means kṣetra-kṣetrajña. The body is the field of activity. You are acting, I am also acting, everyone is acting—according to the body. But the actor is called kṣetrajña. Just like a cultivator is tilling the land, his own, and the tiller is cultivator. Similarly, this body is an analogy of this field, and we are tilling. So Kṛṣṇa says that "I am also one of the tillers." Just like the tenant and the landlord. In an apartment house, the tenant is occupier of a certain house, certain apartment, but the landlord is the owner of the whole house. So God says "I am also kṣetrajña—but for all the buildings." Everything that is there, all planets, all, everywhere. That is His all-pervasiveness. I am the proprietor of this body, owner of this body, but God is proprietor of all the bodies. In this way that is explained.

Room Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Catholic?

Lekhaśravantī: Maybe it is. I'm not so educated in all these things.

Hari-śauri: I think it's Catholic.

Prabhupāda: So we shall have to go there? No.

Hari-śauri: It's very windy tonight, there is no sun.

Prabhupāda: What is this?

Hari-śauri: You can look. Whatever you decide.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Hari-śauri: (laughs) He was becoming very enthusiastic. He was very enlivened. Anyone with a little intelligence, as soon as you begin to speak to them, they, immediately, they become so much enlivened. He's obviously, he's had some idea about organization and whatever, but he's never seen it practiced. And now he's come here and seen it practical.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is practical training. That is wanted. Simply theoretical knowledge.... That is helpful, but training, that is the greatest need, that we have to create a set of first-class men. Then the world will be all right. That is an attempt of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, to make first class, ideal. Why they'll be attracted? They are seeing that "The priests are doing the same thing as we are doing." So how they will be attracted? Therefore Christianity is failing. They are also having the meat, illicit sex, drunkard, and they're priest.

Room Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Hari-śauri: It's not going on very much longer anyway, there's so many, it's falling apart. There's so many branches, just the fact that there's so many divisions now of Christianity, that this man was speaking about this charismatic movement. Now this is the young people. They're feeling a need for God, so they're trying to express it through another concocted form of Christianity. But that will also be a failure.

Prabhupāda: Let us try honestly, that's all.

Hari-śauri: As long as we can preach very purely, then the effect will be there.

Prabhupāda: So by this time, we shall be in Toronto tomorrow.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: One priest in Boston, he issued one booklet that "These boys, they're our boys, mostly they are coming from Christian or Jewish families. But before this movement, they were not coming even to the church, never inquired about God. Now they are mad after God." He issued one pamphlet like that. These boys.

Scheverman: Oh, you're referring to the young men right here, coming from Boston, that's what you're saying, I see. Right.

Prabhupāda: We have got many places. Los Angeles we purchased one church, a very big church. That church was vacant, nobody was coming. They tried so much to invite men, but nobody was coming. But after we have purchased, the church is the same, and the inhabitants are residents of Los Angeles, but it is always packed up.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Scheverman: Jesus said the poor you have always with you. But at the same time, he said we must go out and give what assistance we can as a Christian community.

Prabhupāda: That assistance means to.... First of all, a man is...

Scheverman: Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the homeless.

Prabhupāda: A man is poor when he's in ignorance.

Scheverman: So you see that as a greater poverty, is the ignorance, rather than the physical poverty of not having enough food.

Prabhupāda: So food problem can be solved simply by accepting.... That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Find out. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). How everyone can.... Find out.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "All living bodies subsist on food grains which are produced from rains. Rains are produced by the performance of sacrifice, and sacrifice is born of prescribed duties."

Prabhupāda: So if you produce enough food grains, both the man and the animal will live very peacefully. Food grains. And I've seen in your country, in America, in Africa, in Australia, so much vacant land without producing food grains. So men are not engaged to produce food grains, but they are brought in Detroit to manufacture of wheels of motorcar.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: But there are different classes of men. So therefore nine methods of devotional service. And the general method is hearing. Hearing about God.

Scheverman: Hearing about God. So therefore the necessity of speaking aloud in one's prayer. Yes. The father was speaking of the charismatics among Christians. That is one of their tenets, too, speaking a prayer, praise, aloud, so that it can be heard and all simultaneously join in it too.

Prabhupāda: And if factually one hears from the right source and the right words, automatically he becomes God conscious.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Scheverman: Do you use the Judeo-Christian scriptures at all in your work?

Prabhupāda: I know that there are good instructions. So generally.... We haven't got to fight with anyone or disagree. We have to accept the general principles for the welfare of the whole human society. Just like to become peaceful: it is the duty of everyone. At least, those who are in the top rank. (aside:) Just bring. First of all, give it to the Father. (referring to prasādam or garlands?)

Devotees: Jaya! This is from the altar.

Scheverman: Praise God, for His beautiful things.

Prabhupāda: Give. Give one to the president.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Jayādvaita: These Christian priests.

Prabhupāda: If you remain to your principles, you can make the whole world your disciple. Pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt. You have read that?

Jayādvaita: Yes. Upadeśāmṛta.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt. If one is a gosvāmī,

vāco vegaṁ manasaḥ krodha-vegaṁ
jihvā-vegam udaropastha-vegam
etān vegān yo viṣaheta dhīraḥ
sarvām apīmāṁ pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt
(NOI 1)

You'll be accepted. We don't speak Eastern-Western. We speak for everywhere. Or Christian or Hindu. We never speak like that. I think I never said like that, that: "Our Eastern people think like that, Hindus think..." I never said. Why shall I say? It is for everyone. If you do not become peaceful, that is your business. But when I say "You become peaceful," that is meant for everyone. All right.

Morning Walk -- June 16, 1976, Detroit:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Christians have a tendency to disbelieve that man can lead man back to God. They think that Christ, or God comes, and then, like this. It doesn't matter what quality of men they are.

Prabhupāda: God comes, when God says, "Come to the kingdom of God," that is God comes (indistinct).

Hariśauri: No, he's saying that God can take you there, but then after God's...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The Christians themselves, throughout the centuries, they have no faith that someone can be so much exalted that they can lead human society. In other words, the Christians have no faith that actually someone can become God conscious.

Devotee: They say Christ is God.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Morning Walk -- June 16, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: That's all right, then why don't you follow Christ? Christ says "Thou shall not kill," then why do you interpret? "Christ ate meat, therefore we shall open slaughterhouse," this is rascaldom. This rascaldom (indistinct). Because maybe somewhere he has eaten fish, therefore, by following in his footsteps, we shall open slaughterhouse and kill thousands of animals daily. The evidence is Christ has eaten fish. Do they not say that? And they are Christians. All others are sinful (indistinct), that's all right, why don't you kill (indistinct). Several times these Christians (indistinct).

Devotee: Everyone in the world is becoming tenth-class men, but Śrīla Prabhupāda is turning the whole thing around. Had you not come, there would be no hope for the whole world.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They say that "Thou shalt not kill," that's okay, but this is an impossible instruction.

Prabhupāda: This is rascaldom.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: These foolish things are going on. They think the body, by some chemical and physical combination and electric power.... Although they have not been able to do so, but still they'll theorize like that. In this way the whole human society is going on in a deep, ignorant platform. So, that is the defect of the human society at the present moment, and we are trying to mend this defect by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. People are trying to understand. Our books are being very nicely received by the educated circle. We have got so many books. About, for the time, we have got over fifty-four books like this. This book is selling very nicely, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. We have printed recent edition, 350,000 copies, that is finished. Again we are going to print 500,000 copies. So it is a great science meant for all human beings, not for the Hindus or the Muslim or the Christian. Science, mathematic, is meant for everyone. So it is spiritual science. Everyone should take advantage of it. Otherwise what was the use of my.... I have not come here to preach Hindu religion. Why you should take Hindu religion? You are already Christian. So what is use of replacing Christian religion to Hindu religion? We have no such distinction. We are not after increasing the number of Hindus; we are after making the human being perfect in knowledge. That is our aim.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Everywhere, some tension. The Catholic, the Protestant; the black, the white; the Hindu, the Muslim. That must go on because if we accept on the platform of dress, of body, then there must be ignorance. Read that verse and explain to her.

Jayādvaita: "One who is thus transcendentally situated at once realizes the Supreme Brahman and becomes fully joyful. He never laments nor desires to have anything; he is equally disposed to every living entity. In that state he attains pure devotional service unto Me."

Prabhupāda: Equally disposed. As soon as he knows that I am not this body, I am spirit soul, then there is no distinction. Just like two American goes to India. So when they understand that "We are Americans," immediately their interest becomes one, although they are in the foreign country. That is psychology. Similarly, as soon as we come to the spiritual platform, there is no such distinction as black, white, Hindu, Muslim, Christian. Everything finished.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: So this brahma-bhūta stage is spiritual stage. We want to bring everyone to this spiritual stage. That is the sum and substance. We are not on the material stage. Therefore it is little difficult to understand. Everyone is on the material stage, but we are working on the spiritual stage. But the spirit and matter, we can distinguish. Without the spirit, the body is nothing but lump of matter. The spirit is there, the matter is there, but we are so dull, we do not understand what is that spirit. That is the difficulty of the modern society. This is the most important thing. Without the spirit the body cannot move. They are daily experiencing that without spirit the body is nothing, decomposed matter. But still they are simply licking up that decomposed matter without taking care of the spiritual. This is the most defective position of the modern society. So it is not a Hindu religion or Christian religion. It is a science to understand.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Jagadīśa: I remember, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when I was young I was brought up in the Catholic church, and I learned to fear God, and be afraid of God. But then as I went to high school, due to...

Prabhupāda: .... association, everything is bad(?). So degraded condition, there is no good association. Therefore I say that we require a first-class man section. A first-class.... All third class, fourth class. Even the so-called priests, they are also fourth-class, fifth-class men. Indulging in homosex.

Satsvarūpa: This priest who joined us, who's now your man, he said that although he was a priest, he smoked three packs of cigarettes a day and drank all kind of wine. He began to drink wine, he said, because in their mass, in their ceremony, the priest drinks wine. And then then he became addicted.

Prabhupāda: These rascals are priests. And they'll protect religion.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Bhakta Gene: You didn't meet with him? He was supposedly the most prominent mystical writer within the Catholic Church in the past one hundred years. His writings gained tremendous prominence in the past..., oh, the past twenty-five years.

Prabhupāda: Prominence amongst whom?

Bhakta Gene: Uh, amongst Christians. And non-Christians as well. He made a trip to the East. He had an accident in the East and was electrocuted. Oh, this is some ten years ago now.

Jayādvaita: He wrote that original introduction for your first Bhagavad-gītā published by Macmillan.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Bhakta Gene: Well, this raises a question in my mind, Your Grace. Within Christianity there has been a history of mysticism from 100 A.D. to the present. Now there have been some prominent mystics, a few prominent mystics, and a great many not so prominent. Now how do you classify these men, these Christian mystics, Protestant as well as Catholic?

Prabhupāda: It is some yogic mysticism. It has nothing to do with spiritual life. They want to see some miracles, generally, ordinary public. So this mystic power, show some miracles and make them astonished. That's all. It has nothing to do with spiritual life.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ (SB 3.25.25). Therefore sādhu-saṅga wanted. Association of devotees. That is wanted. Then our life will be successful. Not mysticism.

Satsvarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I think Bhakta Gene wants to know if you recognize that there are any great devotees in that Christian tradition. Do we recognize that any of those Christian saints were great devotees? Did they develop love of God? Or what's the comparison?

Prabhupāda: I do not know, I have not studied Christianity. But if anyone has developed love, that is perfection. So there is not question of my knowing or not knowing. If actually one has developed love for God, he's perfect. That's all.

Bhakta Gene: This is what prompted me to ask my first question, Your Grace. What has brought me here has been my search...

Prabhupāda: No, it is God's desire that you are sincere, you have come. Now utilize the association and the opportunity, your life will be successful. We have got enough books to convince you about this science. So you read it.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Bhakta Gene: The traditionalists are strictly the old Roman Catholic traditionalists.

Prabhupāda: No, apart from Roman or, what do you mean by traditionalist?

Bhakta Gene: Those who abided by tradition rather than the scriptures.

Prabhupāda: Oh, scripture, they have no respect for scripture?

Bhakta Gene: Well, they had respect for scriptures, but they had more respect for tradition. Ritualistic laws.

Prabhupāda: What is the tradition?

Satsvarūpa: The way the church would apply the ritual rather than actually trying to...

Prabhupāda: But that is required. That is required. Just like we are worshiping the Deity. This is traditional. From time immemorial. So how you can reject? This is the way. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam (SB 7.5.23). That is bhakti way.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Satsvarūpa: Some of these Christian mystics would say it's more important to directly contact God within your own heart. These traditions are not as important.

Prabhupāda: God is there already. Where is the contact? God is there already. It is no question of contacting. He is already, but you are blind, you cannot see. Therefore if you follow the rules and regulations, then you'll see. You'll see. Otherwise we'll not see. God is there. God is everywhere. God is here. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). You have no eyes to see.

Bhakta Gene: These are almost the very words that Francis of Assisi stated.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This question was raised in Melbourne. And that is perfectional. He was embracing tree. So I told, "This is perfection." Perfection means he'll see everywhere God and everything in God. That is perfection.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Oh, prasāda we shall arrange. And they will pay for that.

Viśvakarmā: Yes, just like the Christians. They have that kind of thing when they have a banquet.

Prabhupāda: That can be accepted.

Viśvakarmā: The type of ceremonies, they want some sort of...

Jagadīśa: Havana.

Viśvakarmā: What's that?

Jagadīśa: Havana, fire.

Viśvakarmā: Yes, they want fire sacrifice. Can we give them some other ceremony to satisfy them?

Prabhupāda: Other ceremony? Why?

Viśvakarmā: Well, sometimes the Indians come with their children, and they want us to bless the children, so we give them caraṇāmṛta and...

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They will consider it is their own interest.

Viśvakarmā: 'Cause all the Christians have their churches, and we are the only church for them. The other...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Then you can (can't(?)) allow it.

Viśvakarmā: There are four temples in Toronto of other Indian groups. But they are political and social. The people really don't like them. And they don't have Deities like we have.

Prabhupāda: That is a farce. That is not temple. In London also there are Hindu Center, this, that. All nonsense. Now they are installing Deity. But it is not taken care of properly.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Thing is that if the leaders of the society, they come to their consciousness, that this way the society cannot be peaceful, the way they are now conducting.... If they have brain.... Just like the other day, the Christian priest. He was speaking of disabled men. You were present? I challenge you: what do you mean by disabled man? If one man has lost his arm, can you supply it? Then he stopped.

Hari-śauri: He was finished when you told him it was all imaginary.

Prabhupāda: Yes, actually. What you can do?

Jagadīśa: Other than yourself, Śrīla Prabhupāda, no one in the world has a vision how to save the world.

Prabhupāda: Because I honestly think of it. Maybe others are also honest, but they do not know the right way. How they can be honest? Just like this Communist movement. They are favoring the labor class and rejecting the capitalist class altogether. They cannot make any adjustment.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Guest (1): Swami, do you attach any significance to the fact that this temple is in a form of a Christian church?

Prabhupāda: There are many Christian church we have converted temple. They sell for want of customer. And we purchase, we increase customers. But customer of the same place. That is the beauty. These customers, they are not brought from India. But formerly they were not coming here, now they are coming in crowd. In Los Angeles we purchased.... You have been in Los Angeles? Now we have got a regular colony. About one dozen big, big houses. So that was a church. Nobody was coming, they sold it to us. Now it is always crowded. This church, they were not going to sell us. But (laughs) under circumstances it came to us. We wanted to purchase it, but the proprietor would not sell to us. They were charging very big price. So we are prepared. Still he'll not agree. Now we have purchased less price.

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: There was no preaching. There was no education on this subject. The Christian priests, they are unable to...

Kīrtanānanda: They have no knowledge themselves. How they can teach?

Hari-śauri: They are all giving up out of hopelessness themselves.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are now asking... In Melbourne the priest asked me, "Swamiji, why Christian religion is dwindling? What we have done?" I told them, "What you have not done?" (laughs) They were little insulted.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Christians say that God is very merciful.

Prabhupāda: That mercy depends on Him. You cannot dictate Him. If I am merciful, that will depend on me, whether I can show you mercy or I can condemn you. That is, depends on me. Simply on the basis of "God is merciful," I can do all unlawful things, this is not practical proposal. Merciful means it depends on me. Whether I shall show mercy or I shall be very strong and strict, that is my will, freedom. I may show you mercy, I may not show. You cannot force me, that "You must become merciful." That is not right. God is really merciful. Otherwise, how He's supplying this... In the morning if a fog, so God mercifully has asked sun, "Now give them some sunlight." So we are enjoying. He is merciful. When there is sunshine you see the sinful man and the pious man, both enjoy. That is His mercy. When he bestows His mercy, it is for all of them, either you are sinner or you are pious. That is God's mercy. Just like the cloud when it pours water, it does not make any discrimination. On the sea, there is also rainfall; on the rocks also, there is rainfall, where there is no necessity of rain. Therefore where is necessity of rainfall on rock? What is the use? There is no use. It is simply waste.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: This is not wanted. He is spirit. He has nothing to do with this material world, but he wanted it. Or the real thing is that he wanted to enjoy by becoming the master. He is servant... Sometimes servants desire it that "Why I become servant? Why not master?" That is natural. But the natural position is he is servant. If he remains servant of Kṛṣṇa, then he's happy always. But because he desired to become master, so he cannot become master in the spiritual world, because in the spiritual world the master is one. So he is given the chance, "All right, go to the material world and become a master." But that is a falldown. So he's trying struggle for existence, and everyone is trying to become master. Even one is in this spiritual knowledge that "I am spirit soul," still he's trying to become master. That is Māyāvāda. They have understood that "I am not this body, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, but I am the supreme Brahman." The same disease is there—master. Therefore they are condemned, arūhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam tataḥ (SB 10.2.32). Because the mentality to remain master is continuing, even they are in the Brahman, merge into the Brahman, the mastership mentality is there; therefore he falls down again. Because mastership exhibition can be done in this material world. So many Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they give up, "This world is false," and they merge, so-called merge, but the mastership mentality is there. But in the void, simply spiritual light, he cannot do any mastership; therefore again falls down in this false world, and he wants to be by becoming a leader of hospital, and school, college, a Christian missionary.

Prabhupada Visits Palace and Garden -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kīrtanānanda: Then we find so many purported religious people. Just like Christians, they may say "Well, I believe in the soul," but nonetheless they are going on with their materialistic civilization.

Prabhupāda: That means you do not know seriously what is soul. You have simply an idea, but you do not know in detail. Just like they say, the Christians, "God is great." But they do not know who is God and what is the meaning of greatness. That they do not know. They accept this theoretically or religious sentimentally, "God is great." Just like your state says, "In God We Trust." As soon as I inquire what kind of trust and to whom, there is no reply. That means they do not know what is God, what is trust. As a matter of slogan they write, that's all. Even the state heads, and what to speak of the nonsense ordinary citizens. Seriously taking, it is very important question. They should have reply. But they do not know how to reply.

Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Patient is always rascal fool. You cannot expect him to be intelligent. He must agree to the physician's directions. That is intelligence. He must know that he's diseased, he must follow the instruction of the physician. That much will help him. Unless one is rascal, he does not fall sick. As soon as you violate the hygienic principles, you become sick. All commit sinful activities on account of ignorance. So therefore the best advancement of civilization is not to open hospitals, but to give them a lesson that they may not fall sick and go to hospital. That is real...But they do not know. They keep the mass of people in ignorance, they fall sick and they come to hospital and number of hospitals increase, they think it is advancement. This is their idea. So even the Christians, religious persons, they also open hospital to give relief to the patient. So that is not the program. The program is why he should fall sick and come to the hospital? Precaution is better than cure. One comes to the hospital for cure, but why not take the precaution so that he may not have to come to the hospital for cure? That is Vedic civilization. They have different prescribed rules and regulations so that a person may not fall sick. The modern idea is that "Let them fall sick; we have got hospitals and treat them, and they'll be cured." But he is cured, again he falls sick. That is going on. They have no program for precaution. They have program for cure. But actually, precaution is better than cure.

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I think they would like both. Like the Christians, they would like to enjoy sinful life and at the same time live forever.

Prabhupāda: No, we don't talk of any sect, we are talking of the general principles.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Their tendency is...

Prabhupāda: Now the people's tendency, general tendency is, unless he's a madman, nobody is prepared to die. But he has to die.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: But I accept death as part of life.

Prabhupāda: Part of life?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Yes, it's natural. So I don't, I'm not afraid.

Prabhupāda: Then when there is some sign of death, why do you go away? Sit down and die. (laughter) You don't accept. You are talking foolishly. You don't want to die. That is a fact. You are talking foolishly, that "I accept it," but you don't accept it. That is the fact. But because you have no other way, then you say, "I accept it." The real fact is this, that you do not wish to die, but you find that there is no other alternative, "Then I accept it. All right." So you can talk like that, foolishly, but intelligent man, you do not want to die.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The Christian conception of salvation was more one of being saved from hell rather than an attraction for some transcendental reality.

Prabhupāda: Christian conception... Mass of people, they do not know what is hell because they are living in the hell already. That was the story. When hell was described, he was undisturbed, but when he was informed that there was no newspaper in hell then he became... "Horrible. How one can live there without newspaper?" So so far hellish condition is there now... Pradyumna, where is Pradyumna Mahārāja?

Kuladri: He is showering.

Prabhupāda: He was describing about that factory. So they are working in the factory, what do they care for hell? Even if we go to hell, they will get some good salary, that's all. Money required, then I can drink nicely. The standard is there. Now this qualification, abhayaṁ sattva-saṁśuddhir, what is that? It does not strike them at all, these qualities are high qualities.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kulādri: In the Catholic Church, they used to have the doctrine, "No eating meat on Friday." Used to be standard, no meat-eating on Friday; they would only eat fish. Now within our lifetime they have changed it.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: They have changed so many things. When I was a young boy they..., you had to be in church on Sunday morning very early, otherwise it was noticed. Now you don't have to be till later on. There is no more austerity in religion.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But if their standard is demoniac to begin with...

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are selling churches. Nobody is attracted. In London city there are so many churches closed. Nobody goes.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kulaśekhara: So we should simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. Try to understand everything, but understanding Kṛṣṇa, you understand everything. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam eva vijñātaṁ bhavanti. And because you do not understand Kṛṣṇa, therefore you do not understand Brahman, you do not understand Paramātmā. But if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then it is automatically understood. We have not understood Brahman, Paramātmā, because we have not understood Kṛṣṇa properly. Kṛṣṇa says, aham sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8), "I am the source of everything." So Brahman is also from Kṛṣṇa, Paramātmā is also from Kṛṣṇa. And so other Bhagavāns—there are so many Bhagavāns also—they are from Kṛṣṇa. So if you understand Kṛṣṇa you can understand everything. And as soon as you say that you have not understood it, therefore you have not understood Kṛṣṇa. They cannot understand, just like Māyāvādīs, they do not understand Kṛṣṇa, therefore they do not understand Brahman also. And therefore they fall down, because they have not understood either Brahman or Kṛṣṇa. Patanty adhaḥ. This is stated in the śāstra. Anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ, because they have not understood Kṛṣṇa, even they have gone up to the Brahman, they cannot stand there; they fall down. Again they come to the material world. The Māyāvādīs, they say, brahma satyma jagan mithyā, "Brahman is truth, and this material world is false." They take sannyāsa, but after some time they fall down, again take to other businesses than Brahman in the material world. Just like our Vivekananda. He came to the Western countries to preach Vedānta, and he has advertised that "Whole America has become Vedantist." The proof of Vedānta is when he returned to India he became very enthusiastic to open hospitals like the Christian missionaries.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Find that verse. You can quote that "This Kali-yuga it is waning; therefore they are becoming animals." Man without religion means animals. That's all. This is the definition. In the human society, either you become Christian or you become Mohammedan or you become a Hindu or you become Buddhist. It doesn't matter. There must be some system of religion. That is human society. And human society without religion—animal society. This is plain fact. So why people are unhappy now? Because there is no religion. They are neglecting religion. That one gentleman, he has written me that Tolstoy said that "Unless one dynamite is put underneath a church, there cannot be any peace." That means they want... The Russians, the Communists, they are very strict against God consciousness. Because they think so, that this religion has spoiled the whole social atmosphere. It might have been misused, religious system. That does not mean that religion should be avoided. Real religion should be taken. Because religion has not been properly executed by the so-called priest, it does not mean that religion should be rejected. My eye is giving some trouble on account of cataract, but that doesn't mean eye should be plucked out. The cataract should be removed. So that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. They have no conception of God, and they are preaching religion. What is that religion? That will be misused. Religion means dharmaṁ tu sāksād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Religion means God's order.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So far Vedic religion is concerned, it is not for the Hindus. That is to be understood. The sanātana-dharma. It is for all living entities, all human beings. It is called sanātana-dharma. That I have already explained. The living entity is sanātana, God is sanātana, and there is sanātana-dharma. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). And where Kṛṣṇa is described sanātana in the Eleventh Chapter. Do you remember? He is described as sanātana. Sanātanam. So actually, the Vedic system is called sanātana-dharma. Not Hindu dharma. This is a wrong conception. The sanātana-dharma is meant for all living entities, not the so-called Hindus, Muslims, Christians. For everyone. That is sanātana-dharma. These are later misconceptions, Hinduism and this ism, that ism, that ism. Actually, it is called sanātana-dharma, or varṇāśrama-dharma. That is meant for everyone. But because it was being followed regularly in India and Indians were called by the Muslims on the other side of the River Sind, or Sindu, and they pronounce Sind as Hind. Therefore they called India as Hindustan, means on the other side of Sindu, or Hindu River. Otherwise, it has no Vedic reference. So this Hindu dharma has no Vedic reference. The real Vedic dharma is sanātana-dharma, varṇāśrama-dharma. First of all he has to understand this. Now that sanātana-dharma, or Vedic dharma, being distorted, not being obeyed, not being carried properly, it has come to the understanding of Hinduism. That is a freak understanding. That is not real understanding. We have to study sanātana-dharma or varṇāśrama-dharma. Then we'll understand what is Vedic religion.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: How we are doing? Is it not practical? They'll manufacture their own way of religion. And that is... That is not practical. You take this practical system. What is this? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī... Where is impracticality? You simply think of Kṛṣṇa, become His devotee, worship Kṛṣṇa. Or just offer a little obeisances to Kṛṣṇa. Where is the difficulty? Why don't you do that? Kṛṣṇa says, "This is the duty. If you do this, you come to Me." Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśaya. "Without any doubt you'll come to Me." Why don't you do that? Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ (BG 18.66). Why you remain Hindu? Why you remain Muslim? Why you remain Christian? Give up all this nonsense. Just surrender to Kṛṣṇa. "I am devotee of Kṛṣṇa, servant of Kṛṣṇa." Take this. Then everything will be immediately done. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya. So why you want to remain Hindu? And try to adjust things? Dharma means dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). What God says, that is dharma. Now, God says that "You give up all this. You just surrender unto Me." So take that dharma. Why you want to remain a Hindu? And who is a Hindu who does not accept the authority of Kṛṣṇa? Who is a Hindu? If any Hindu says, even up till now, that "I don't care for Kṛṣṇa and Bhagavad-gītā," he will be immediately rejected as a madman. Why don't you take Kṛṣṇa's instruction? Why do you go outside? Therefore your trouble is there. You do not know what is religion, you do not know what is Hinduism, what is sanātana-dharma. You do not know anything. And actually, practically, you see that in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement there are so-called Hindus, so-called Muslims. They do not care for Muslim or Hindu or Christian. They are taking care of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. If you take care of false religious system, then you suffer. You take real religious system, then you'll be happy.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes it's also seen, say, that Muslims and Hindus they will be converted to Christianity, and the same argument can be given. So what would be the difference for the, in this case, that one who is identifying himself as Christian or one is identifying himself as devotee of Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: First of all, you have to understand what is religion. The religion is God's law. You have to understand. Religion does not mean your manufactured, concocted ideas. What God says, that is religion. So here Kṛṣṇa is God. He is saying. Therefore this is religion. Is that clear? Make it clear. So long one point is not clear, don't go to the next point.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Devotee: But these religions are just material. These Hindu, Christian, Muslim, they're following these things because that is simply their destiny? They don't know how to please God, so that's simply part of their happiness and distress?

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, now Kṛṣṇa is asking, "You give up this rascaldom." You do it. Don't go to the history. He says, "You give up." You give up. That's all. Then you are perfect. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why you are going to the history? History may be something else, but now He says directly "Give up," you give up. That's all. Finish this business. Hm. That is... The point is clear now?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: Then go on.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So can all people have an equal interest in religion despite their different classifications?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I have already explained, that any human civilized man, he has got some religion. So religion, basic principle of religion is with reference to God. So here is God, What God says, if you take that system, then it will be perfect, not only for the Hindus, for Christian, for Mohammedans, for everyone. And that is being practically done in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We have got devotees from all groups of human society and they are taking to it. It is practical. There is no difficulty. So Hindus, Muslims, Christian, everyone take to this Kṛṣṇa religion, Kṛṣṇite. Kṛṣṇian. (laughter) Not Christian, but Kṛṣṇian. The word christo is also a Greek word. From this christo the Christ has come. So instead of c-h-r-i, k-r-i, the same thing. Christian or Kṛṣṇian, or Christian. Krishta is also another broken, I mean, another spelling of Kṛṣṇa. In India, if one's name is Kṛṣṇa, we say Krishta. My younger brother, his name was Kṛṣṇa. So we were calling him Krishta. So Krishta, Christian. So actually, if we take the root meaning, Christian means Krishnian or Krishtian. So that is a controversial point, but everyone can take to Kṛṣṇa. Then everything will be settled up. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam... (BG 18.66). Make everything clear.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Sanātana means eternal. So na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The identification of the living entity is already described, that it does not perish after annihilation of this body. That is sanātana. So that is meant for everyone. Not that the Hindus, after giving up this body, exist, and the Muslim or Christian does not exist. Everyone exists. Everyone is eternal, so sanātana-dharma is meant for everyone.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is there anyone actually outside of sanātana-dharma then?

Prabhupāda: If he thinks. Otherwise nobody is outside. If you think that you are not... There are so many rascals, they think that with the body everything is finished. But he may think so, but that is not fact. Similarly, if one thinks that "I am not sanātana-dharmi, I am Christian." You may think like that, but actually you are sanatanist. But if you think otherwise, you can think. Who can check it? When Kṛṣṇa says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), the soul does not annihilate after the destruction of the body, is it meant for the Hindus? Everyone. Everyone is a living entity, everyone is a soul, and he's eternal. And eternal means sanātana.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is this practical in the present context?

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are doing it. See. If anyone has eyes to see they can see how we are accepting the pāpa-yoni, so-called pāpa-yoni to become the topmost Vaiṣṇava, that is possible. Unless it is possible how it is being done all over the world? There is no consideration. The process is so effective that it is being done. They are taking it as a proselytization. But it is not proselytizing. Proselytization is superflous. If one is Hindu you make him a Christian, and you change the name. But what is the use of changing the name if you do not reform him about his character? Simply changing the name from Hindu to Muslim or Muslim to Christian, that does not make him better...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This next question is rather interesting. Question sixteen. "Is it not possible for all sections of Hindus, be they Advaitans, Dvaitans, or viṣiṣṭādvaitans, to come together instead of remaining isolated as warring factions?"

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dvaita and advaita. This is the process of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, to bring all the dvaitas and advaitas in one platform. To understand that he is essentially servant of God. The Advaitas, they are wrongly thinking that he is God himself. That is wrong, or not the proper way of thinking. How you can become God? God is ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇam, full with six opulences, all-powerful, all-strength, all-beauty, all opulent. So this is artificial, to think to become God. And... This is Advaita. And Dvaitas, they think that one is different from God, God is separate from the living entity. But actually, from the Bhagavad-gītā we understand that God is always the Supreme and the living entities, they are subordinate. And in the Vedas also it is said, nityo nityānaṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Both of them are living entities, but God is the chief.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So these people, these mahājanas, they know what is the principles of religion. Religion means bhagavata-dharma, to understand God and our relationship with God. That is religion. You may call it Hindu religion or Muslim religion or Christian religion, but real religion is that which teaches how to love God. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). If by following the religious system, you come to the platform of loving God, then your religious system is perfect. Otherwise it is a simply waste of time, bogus religion, without conception of God. So unless one understands what is God and what He says, and we have to abide by that order, then we are religious and there is religion and there is God, there is everything complete.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This is off the record, but one may ask if someone like Christ or Moses was not mentioned amongst the mahājanas, present some sort of religion...

Prabhupāda: No, mahājana there is in Christian messiahs. There is mahājana. And later on, after Christ, there was so many other. Saint Matthew, Saint Thomas, like that. Mahājana is mentioned there. How can you say there is no mahājana? Mahājana means who is strictly following the original religion. That is called mahājana. Or who know the things as they are. They are called mahājana. And that means paramparā system. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna is learning Bhagavad-gītā directly from Kṛṣṇa. He's mahājana. So you learn from Arjuna. And after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, as Arjuna acted, as Arjuna understood Kṛṣṇa, you follow that. Then mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Then you are following the mahājana. You are on the real path. Just like we are. Here it is said, mahājana, Svāyambhu. Svāyambhu means Brahmā, Lord Brahmā. So our, this sampradāya, Gauḍīya sampradāya, is Brahma-sampradāya. And Svāyambhu, Nārada. Nārada is also in the brahma-sampradāya. And Śambhu, Lord Śiva, he is also mahājana. He has got his sampradāya, Rudra-sampradāya. And similarly, Śrī-sampradāya. So all these sampradāya we must follow. Sampradāya vihina ye mantras te niṣphala mataḥ. If you do not belong to sampradāya, mahājana, then you are useless. You cannot concoct any religious system. So either you be Christian or Hindu it doesn't matter. You have to follow the mahājana. If a Christian says, "I don't believe in St. Thomas," what kind of Christian he is? Similarly, it doesn't matter who is a mahā... But real mahājana is he who is strictly following the principle as enunciated by God. That is religious system. Otherwise there is no religion. There is no question of religion. It is simply concoction. Mano-dharmi, mental speculator. Mental speculation is not religion. Religion is the order of Kṛṣṇa and one who follows that order, he is religious. That's all.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: One religion is there already, that how to love God. This is one religion. Will the Christian say, "No. We don't want to love God"? Will the Christians say? Will the Mohammedans say, "No, no. We don't want to love God"? So religion means how to love God, and any religion which teaches how to love God, that is perfect. It doesn't matter whether he's Christian or Muslim or Hindu. It doesn't matter. You have to be educated to take your degree. It doesn't matter from which college you take degree. Similarly, religion means you have to learn how to love God. If you have no love for God, it is all useless. That is not religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Sākṣād, Bhagavān Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender unto Me." You cannot surrender until you love. You are surrendered to me, I am also an Indian. Because you have love for me, therefore there is surrender. If I say that "You die," you'll die. Why? Because you love me. So when there will be surrender? Unless one loves God. Unless that platform is not there, that "I love you, I can sacrifice everything for you." That is on the the basic principle of love. Therefore that religion is perfect which teaches the followers how to love God. This is religious principle. So let everyone come to this platform, how to love God. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are teaching nothing, but training them how to love God, how they can sacrifice everything for God. So that is religion. Otherwise a bogus waste of time, simply following the ritualistic ceremonies. That is not religion. That is superfluous.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You are very good, you are following your religious principle very strictly, adherently. That's all right. But what about your love of God? "Oh, that I do not know." So śāstra says, śrama eva hi... It is simply waste of time, and simply laboring. That's all. If you have not learned to love God, then what is the meaning of your religion? Then, when you're actually on the platform of love of God, you understand your relationship with God, that "I am part and parcel of God. Not only I am part and parcel of God, this dog is also part and parcel of.... Every living entity." Then you'll extend love for animal also. If you actually love God, then your love for insect also is there because you understand that "This insect, it has got a different body only, but he is also part and parcel, or my brother." Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Then you cannot maintain slaughterhouse. If you maintain slaughterhouse and disobey the order of Christ, thou shall not kill, and you proclaim yourself as Christian or Hindu or this.... That is not religion.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes we meet people in our preaching activities. They may, of course, claim to be very devout Christian or Muslim, but at the same time they will blaspheme Kṛṣṇa. Is it possible that such persons can actually be associates of God?

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is just like in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement there are so many Christians, so many Jews, so many Mohammedan, and Hindus. Everyone is there. It is a question of understanding. So in the beginning if... But if he's serious to understand what is God, then he will accept Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Lord. If he knows what is God, then he'll understand, "Here is God." If he remains in darkness, he does not know what is God, then how he'll understand Kṛṣṇa? He'll understand Kṛṣṇa as one of us. That's all. But if he knows what is God then he'll understand. Yes, here is God, Just like if a person knows what is gold, then anywhere gold, he'll understand, "Here is gold." It does not mean only gold, in certain shop only gold is available. But if he knows what is God, what is meaning of God, that he will find in Kṛṣṇa in fullness. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). The śāstra says how He is Bhagavān, what is Bhagavān. You should understand and see from the activities of Kṛṣṇa whether He is not Bhagavān. It requires brain to understand. I say, "Here is God." Now it is up to you. If you know what is God, then test it, and then you'll accept God. If you do not know how to test it, then you may refuse. That is another thing. You'll accept iron as gold. That is your ignorance. You do not know what is gold. But if you actually know what is gold, you will accept Kṛṣṇa as God, there is no doubt about it. So this is the only platform, Bhagavad-gītā. Everyone come and take to Kṛṣṇa and understand God and learn how to love Him and your life is perfect.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But if the Christians are saying that "This is the only platform, the Bible," and the Muslims are saying, "This is the only platform, Koran," and the community of followers of Bhagavad...

Prabhupāda: But we have to see by the result. The result is... Only platform, that only platform, that is decided... Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ. That is actually religion. How? Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. If one has learned how to love God. If there is no love of God, then what is the use of claiming that this is the only platform? Where is the sign of love of Godhead? That is to be seen. Simply if you say... Everyone will say, "This, my, this property is the best, or my understanding is..." But there must be practical proof. The practical proof-say how to love God, what is the process of loving God? If you do not know your relationship with God and other's relationship with God, then how you know God? That is lacking. Nobody can give clear conception of God. Can the Christians give? Then where is love of God? If you have no understanding of what is God, where is the question of love? Love is not fictitious. You cannot love air. You love a person, a beautiful person, a beautiful woman. If you say, "I love air. I love the sky..." Where there is question of love?There must be a person. So who is that person we want to love? But they have no personal conception of God, neither they can describe the personal beauty, capacity, strength, ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇaḥ. There is no such description. So they have got the conception of God, but actually they do not know what is God. But religion means you must know God and love Him. That is religion. That is first class religion. Is that clear or not?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: God is great. That's all. God is great. Kṛṣṇa proved that He's great. Therefore He's God. Everyone says, "God is great." Allah akbar, Muslims say. God is great. It is translated, "God is great." And Hindu says, paraṁ brahma. So God is great. So Kṛṣṇa proved that He is all-great. Therefore He is God. Kṛṣṇa, when He was present, He proved it that He is the great. Therefore He's God. If you accept God is great, and if you find somebody, he is great in everything, then he's God. How can I deny it? At least, you can see Kṛṣṇa great by His Bhagavad-gītā. It is still going on. Five thousand years passed, still Bhagavad-gītā is accepted as the greatest book of knowledge all over the world. Even among the Christians, among the Muslims, those who are really learned, they take it, "Yes." That is greatness of Kṛṣṇa, the knowledge. Who can give such knowledge? That is the proof that He is God. Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya viryasya yasasaḥ... Jñāna, knowledge. Where is such knowledge throughout the whole world? Everything, every line is sublime knowledge. If one studies scrutinizingly Bhagavad-gītā, you find Kṛṣṇa is Supreme Lord.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It is not proselytization. Proselytization has no meaning. To bring one to the real understanding. Kṛṣṇa says that mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). All living entities are His part and parcel. He claims, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). In all forms of life, as many living entities are there, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ, I am the seed-giving father. So the natural position is that every living entity, not only human being, but also animals, plants, everyone... So why not Indian, American, or Czechoslavakian, everyone is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa? So it not the process of proselytizing to convince the idea. It is actually bringing them to their real position, that they're all part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. It is not artificial proselytization that "You are Christian, now you are Hindu." Or "You are Hindu, now you are Christian." "You are a sweeper, now you are harijana." It is not like that. It is actually bringing him to his own position, part and parcel of God. It is not... Proselytization will not stand. When one comes to the real understanding of his position, then that will continue. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that. Bringing one to the original position. He's in diseased condition, he's thinking otherwise than servant of Kṛṣṇa. Now this movement is trying to bring everyone to the position that he is eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. It is not a rubberstamp proselytization that "You are Hindu, now you are Christian." Or "You are Christian, now are Hindu." So if he does not know what is his position by simply stamping that he is Hindu or Muslim or Christian, what benefit he will derive?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The same ignorance.

Prabhupāda: If you keep him in the ignorant platform, then what is the benefit of making a Hindu Muslim or Muslim Hindu? That was going on, "holy war," between Christians and the Muslims. Because both of them will die. (chuckles) And they are engaged in holy war. War, but "holy war." "Holy impiety." Artificial change of "ism" will not help. One must know the philosophy of life. One must know what is God. One must learn how to love God. That is real life.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Dead. This cow killing has been introduced by these Britishers.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Christian.

Prabhupāda: Christians.

Hari-śauri: Even they're exporting beef from India.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They can do anything, take the dead cows. I do not know if there is any chemical composition change. They are eating so many dead animals. Take for fish. The fish is never killed alive, because as soon as you take it out from water, it is dead, after few minutes.

Interview with Mike Darby -- June 30, 1976, Wheeling, W. Virginia:

Prabhupāda: So it is the duty of the Christians. But they are also... What can I say? They are passing resolution according to the time, changing the instruction of Bible. How they can be fixed-up? Our standard is Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. We accept guru as representative of Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. If he speaks what Kṛṣṇa has spoken, then he is guru. Similar in Christianity, if they actually take care that whether one is speaking according to the Ten Commandments, if he is living according to the rules and regulations of the Ten Commandments, then he is guru. Why people accept them? Because they are ignorant, they do not know who is real and who is fake. But the standard is there. Take for example in the Bible, it is said "Thou shalt not kill." But everyone is killing. Killing is the business of the Christians. They are maintaining big, big slaughterhouse. We are maintaining cows here, and there are others, they are maintaining cows for slaughtering. Why? In these Commandments it is clearly said that "Thou shalt not kill." How they will detect? If they are violating themselves the laws, how they will punish the lawbreaker? "Physician, heal thyself." The physician himself is diseased, and he's going to treat other patients.

Interview with Mike Darby -- June 30, 1976, Wheeling, W. Virginia:

Darby: So many people call themselves Christians, they still try to deny God.

Prabhupāda: Not only Christians, the whole world is now like that. Religion has become a subject matter of laughing. If one is God conscious, religious, he is considered fool number one, not very much advanced. Especially the scientists, the rascal scientists. And they'll bluff you in so many ways, that life is produced from chemicals. When we challenge them that "You make a little egg with chemicals and put it in the incubator and let life come," what will be the answer? The so-called scientist who says that life is made by combination of chemicals? Anyone can see the composition of egg, a little white and yellow substance. There are many chemicals, they are all white, and there are many chemicals yellow also. Combine together and put it in the incubator and see whether chicken is coming or not. And still they will assert, write big, big books, that life is coming out of chemicals. And people are accepting this bluff. So it is very precarious condition of present world. People want to be bluffed and there are many bluffers. And they are satisfied that "I am bluffed by a big bluffer." That's all. This is going on.

Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Pradyumna: One time we went to a church in Boston to speak. They had only a pulpit for the preacher, and behind, no altar, no crucifix, nothing, just big map of outer space with planets on the wall. Not even any Christian church, but no cross, nothing. Only universe. Universalist Church, it's called. The Universalists.

Prabhupāda: That's nice, but give some information of the universe.

Hari-śauri: Says, "Religion: 1. monastic condition, being a monk or a nun, enter into a monastic order; 2. practice of sacred rites; 3. one of the prevalent systems of faith and worship, i.e. Christian, Muhammadan, etc.; 4. human recognition of superhuman controlling power and especially of a personal God entitled to obedience, effect of such recognition on conduct and mental attitude."

Prabhupāda: This is religion. Personal conception of God.

Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: So, without reference to God, what is the meaning of sacred rites? Everything is reference that accepting the supreme controller. That is the real meaning. At least, Christian religion accepts God, Muhammadan religion accepts God, or Hindu religion accepts God. So without God, how it can be religion? If there is no understanding of God, the conclusion comes that there is no religion. Fictitious. "We trust in God," but do not know what is God. This is going on. So we have to fight against all this nonsense. Nonsense scientists, nonsense religionists. What do you think? It is not easy-going, sleeping business. We have to fight with so many demons. Otherwise, kava dava adakanam (?), my Guru Mahārāja used to say. Beg some rice and bring it and cook it and eat and sleep.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now one aspect in that, now in Christian group also, some are trying to preach that these things are created by God, but they have a problem there.

Prabhupāda: That's a fact, everything is created by God. It is being done by one, that Supreme. We are simply studying how it is acting. Otherwise everything is being done by Him. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). That is a fact. How He is working so nicely, that is the subject matter of our study, or something is explained in the śāstra or something has been studied by these material scientists, but the things are being done by the supreme arrangement of manager. That is a fact.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The difficulty in this Christian aspect is that they claim that it was created about five thousand years ago. That is the reason why we want to bring up this...

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So long. As soon as there is five thousand years, they will (indistinct). The Christian theory used to say that the world is flat. So what is the value of their words? There is no value. You do not try to compromise with others.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, we are not compromising with anybody.

Prabhupāda: You present your own as it is Bhāgavatam, try to explain them to your best capacity scientifically. If you bring this, bring that... All of them are imperfect. So what is the use of wasting time with something which is imperfect?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We want to demonstrate that those points are imperfect.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We want to demonstrate, though, that those points are imperfect.

Prabhupāda: That you can do, but you must know they are all imperfect. Five thousand years! We can give history of millions and millions of years. And what was before five thousand years, there was no, nothing? What is their (indistinct), reply?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What do they say, the Christians?

Sadāpūta: They don't say too much.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: What Manus? There is seventy-two into 432,000 years. So they are calculating five thousand years... What is this nonsense?

Rūpānuga: No, the Christians calculate, but the others, they go back more than that time. The scientists... These Christians are not accepted so much as.... They're not included in scientific knowledge; they are considered something else.

Prabhupāda: My point is that the Christian theory is also imperfect and the scientists also imperfect.

Rūpānuga: We can show both.

Prabhupāda: If you can show that, that is all right.

Rūpānuga: That is why we made this chart...

Prabhupāda: That is all right.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Anyway, it takes millions of years. So how they say five thousand years?

Sadāpūta: Well, no one really believes the Christians.

Rūpānuga: They are laughed at actually. The scientists, how far do they say? Five hundred million?

Sadāpūta: The scientists say it goes back six hundred million years.

Prabhupāda: That is also imperfect. If we study Brahmā's day, it will be all... Brahmā's day is, one day equal to forty-three hundred thousands of years multiplied by thousand, that is Brahmā's one day. So thirty days, one month, and twelve months equal to year, such hundred years. Your mathematics will fail to figure out. Is it not? (laughter)

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Guest (1): Yes, but my plain feeling came, sir...

Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all, the Brahman, there are... We are all Brahman, living entities. We are simply thinking "I am this body." So when we are... That I was speaking, liberation. When we come to the conclusion that "I am not this body," ahaṁ brahmāsmi... So you are already Brahman, but you are, forgetfully, you are thinking that you are Indian. That is māyā. We are all Brahman, but due to our ignorance, lack of knowledge, we are thinking "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I am this," "I am that." That is māyā. So when you actually understand that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul," that is the fact. Then that condition is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. Now we are jīva-bhūtaḥ. We are thinking "I am individual person of this country, of this religion." That is jīva-bhūtaḥ. But when we understand that we are not jīva-bhūtaḥ, we are brahma-bhūtaḥ, that is our liberated position. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). When one becomes actually in understanding that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul," then my all responsibility of this bodily condition immediately ceases. I am not this body. And why I am working for this body? Why I am in ignorance? That is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). That is liberated stage. So we are already Brahman, there is no question of becoming Brahman. We are mistaking something else, that "I am not Brahman." So when we come to the actual understanding, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, that is called brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. Brahmā-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati samaḥ sarveṣu... (BG 18.54). Then he see everyone on equal level, that every soul is Brahman.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, you are Christian?

Guest (4): No. I am...

Prabhupāda: You are not Christian? Whatever you may be...

Guest (4): Would it be possible to say—this is my question-would it be possible to say that all the religions are, as it were, aspects of the personality of Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: No, our definition of religion is that religion is the word or the law given by God. That is religion.

Guest (4): Yes, but then there are these religions. There's more than one.

Prabhupāda: First of all, we have to agree on the principle. Religion means the word of God or the law given by God. That is religion.

Guest (4): But I go into a Catholic Church and I feel a different environmental personality from the environmental personality I feel when I come here. Or, and, if I'm looking for God, which I think is here, I feel God, certainly I feel it very strongly, in your person—well, that's a brutal thing to say, but I do—and that is...

Prabhupāda: That we have already explained. Because every living entity is part and parcel of God, so just like the particle of gold, the gold is there. There is no doubt about it.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: In Muslim country, Christians, or the Americans preaching Hindu religion, it has been taken very seriously in Iran. Three different elements: preaching center is Muhammadan, and the preacher is American, and the cult Hindu. (laughs) So the princess of Iran and her husband, they are, up to date, they are very much appreciating. The daughter of Shah.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What is the verse, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No, you read the contents.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Vṛṣākapi: Carl Warentz, Prabhupāda, he's from Catholic University, physicist.

Prabhupāda: If you are uncomfortable you can sit on this cot...

Carl Warentz: No, that's okay, I'll sit like this.

Prabhupāda: You are welcome to sit down here.

Hari-śauri: You can sit on the couch.

Vṛṣākapi: This is Eugene Thoreau, Prabhupāda. He's an attorney in Washington, D.C. He's helped us very much opening up saṅkīrtana places. Very good.

Vipina: Śrīla Prabhupāda, this is a professor from Catholic University, a physicist.

Vṛṣākapi: I told him already.

Vipina: Oh, did you?

Hari-śauri: Bring one or two chairs.

Prabhupāda: So how do you like our movement, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement?

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is very simple. Spiritual understanding, that is, I was speaking... This is beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Spiritual understanding is that I am not this body. (to devotee) You move it this way. This is spiritual understanding. So long I am under this bodily concept of life, that "I am this body," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Christian," "I am white," "I am black" and so on, so on, these are all bodily concept of life. So long we keep ourself on this platform, then we are on the material platform. When we understand that "I am not this body..." That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Deha means this body, and dehī means the owner of the body. So unless we distinguish the owner of the body and the body, there is no spiritual knowledge. So long we identify with this body, that is material knowledge. And when we understand that "I am not this body, I am a spirit soul, I have been entrapped by this body," that is spiritual knowledge.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Rūpānuga: Comparatively recent. Because for many years the Catholic Church forbade it. When did it begin?

Pradyumna: Henry the Eighth, the King of England.

Prabhupāda: Oh, he's the rascal.

Pradyumna: He had many wives, he wanted to divorce his wife and he could not under Catholic Church, so he started his own church, Church of England.

Prabhupāda: Because many wives were not allowed?

Hari-śauri: No, they had a system, one wife, but he got fed up with them. He chopped off the heads of two of them and then... It was considered a bit outrageous. So then he wanted to divorce and have another wife after the third or fourth one.

Prabhupāda: So he used to cut them, the head?

Hari-śauri: Yes, two of them he did. And then the Catholic Church excommunicated him.

Prabhupāda: Therefore in Vedic civilization they keep, they have more than one wife. So what is the use of killing? Why one should kill? We find from the history, Dhruva Mahārāja's mother and stepmother, there were some critical words, and Dhruva Mahārāja became very, very angry. So the critical words and wives, different wives, that may be, but why one should cut off the head? Dhruva Mahārāja's mother said when Dhruva Mahārāja began to cry before the mother, mother said "My dear child, what can I do? How can I help you? Your father does not care for me, even as maidservant, what to speak of I am queen, I am the senior queen. So this gentleman does not care of me even as maidservant.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda? The Christians claim that Christ ate meat and therefore there's nothing wrong with it.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee (1): The Christians say that Christ ate meat himself, that there's nothing wrong with it.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Christ ate meat? I don't think so.

Hari-śauri: They say fish.

Prabhupāda: Therefore you should maintain slaughterhouse. Very good reasoning. Because Christ ate fish, therefore we should maintain big, big slaughterhouse? Is that good reasoning?

Dr. Sharma: Meat-eating is not useful from three points of view.

Prabhupāda: No, no, apart from that. He said that Christ ate fish, therefore we should maintain big, big slaughterhouse.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Vṛṣākapi: The Christians say that you kill the vegetables, you slaughter the vegetables.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we shall kill father, mother. You kill vegetables, therefore I shall kill my father and mother. Is that reasoning?

Dr. Sharma: I have a different concept of (indistinct), if I may give: When I'll be half as good as Christ, maybe I can be permitted to eat meat.

Prabhupāda: No, take the example of Christ. But because he ate fish, so because we eat vegetables, therefore a good cause for eating father and mother? For killing child?

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, they say that only the human has a soul, therefore it's wrong to kill humans. But other animals you can kill because there is no soul. That is their argument.

Devotee (3): They'll ask what should be killed and what shouldn't be killed for eating? Where do we draw the line?

Prabhupāda: No, you, we are speaking go-rakṣya. That is not point of view of killing. There are other animals. We do not say that you stop. If you want to eat some meat, at least don't kill cow. You can kill other insignificant animals which has no importance. Cow has got special importance because it supplies milk, and milk is very essential food that is... From the childhood, a child lives on milk, and there are many saintly persons, they also live by drinking milk. Milk is very important item in the human society, and it supplies all vitamins.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: But they are big, big men. What can be done? Here also Christians are not very happy also. And there, Hindus are not happy. So where shall I go? (laughter) I cannot stay here, neither in India. This is my position. Neither in my temple. This is my position. Nor India, nor America, nor Europe, nor any place. So nārada muni bhajaya vīṇā. (laughter)

Dr. Sharma: Sarva-bhūtānām.

Prabhupāda: No, I have no, I mean to say, grudge against. If Kṛṣṇa wants... In old age I was living a retired life in Vṛndāvana. He asked me "Get out, go to America." So I came. At the age of seventy years, actually nobody goes out of home. But Kṛṣṇa asked me, "Get out and go." So I came. And although I have got the best temple in Vṛndāvana, I cannot live there. But a fighting soldier is honored by the government. He maybe dies, he is recognized by the government, "Here is a soldier, laid down his life by fighting." So we prefer that life. We shall die fighting with māyā.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Guest (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, should I have resigned my membership with the Christian organization? Should I have? I did. Could I serve Kṛṣṇa just as well and also through a Christian? I don't see how I could.

Prabhupāda: No, we don't say like that. (laughs) Christian, actually one who is Christian, he's as good as Vaiṣṇava. A Christian means he recognizes God is great. So we also accept God is great. Where is the difference? God is great in all circumstances. So if anyone accepts God is great, that is perfect.

Guest (2): That's what the church board said to me. They said, "You believe in Kṛṣṇa, we believe in God. Why do you go? What's superior?" I feel that your knowledge is superior.

Prabhupāda: The thing is that sometimes we Indians come to Western country for better education. The university in India or the university in U.S. or in Europe is the same, but why does he go after Indian university education to foreign university? Why does he go?

Guest (2): Superior.

Prabhupāda: That's it. God is there, the dictionary is there. Sometimes pocket dictionary, sometimes big national encyclopedia dictionary. The Christians, they have no idea what is God. They believe in God, but if you ask them what is God, who is God, they cannot say. But we can say. That is the difference.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Woman guest (2): Is it not as good to serve God as a Christian in a church?

Prabhupāda: That is have already explained, that you serve God in any position, but if you want to know about God more, then you have to come here. Now ask any Christian what is God, who is God, what is His form, what He is doing. Can he answer? Nobody can answer. He knows God is great. How great He is, who is that God, they cannot answer. To some extent it is all right, but if you want to know full extent, then you have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "Two plus two is equal to four" is mathematics, but if you want to know higher mathematics, you have to go some higher college. "Two plus two" is also mathematics, is it not? Everyone knows two plus two equal to four. So when you go to higher university, that "two plus two" does not change, but you know more about it. Because one has gone to higher university, the previous education, "two plus two," has changed, it is not that. But as a Christian you understand God is great, "two plus two," but how He is great, that you have to learn in the Vedas. That is real education. Because you do not know how He is great, therefore you do so many sinful activities. Otherwise, how it is possible to maintain slaughterhouse? Christian doctrine says "Thou shall not kill." But he does not understand; therefore his business has become to kill only. This is the defect. Why you are disobeying the orders of Christ, "Thou shall not kill"? Because you do not understand him properly.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Sadāpūta: I think that scientifically that was just Christian doctrine that made them do that. Because the scientists turned around...

Prabhupāda: Christian doctrine is not perfect. But symptoms of animal and symptoms of human being, primary necessities eating sleeping, mating, defense that is there, everywhere.

Rūpānuga: They may agree, but they'll say that this...

Prabhupāda: There is soul. As soon as there is living condition, there is soul. As soon as the body is dead, there is no soul. This is difference. It is the Christian doctrine, not scientific doctrine, that animal has... What we have to do with Christian theory?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have poor understanding of the nature of the soul.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In Christianity, they speak of...

Prabhupāda: It is not very advanced.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Now, in Christian commandment, there is "Thou shalt not kill." So what does it mean? (door opens and closes)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: These Chinese Bhagavad-gītās came, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Chinese will be color?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he said there was some defect with them, so they rectified that, the color.

Rūpānuga: Who has done this, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: One devotee.

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: No, he has taken advantage, that "So many rascals are coming from India, God, why not from the Christian league? I become God." He's taking advantage. He's intelligent man. So many gods are coming from India, why not from Korea?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he's the first Korean god.

Rāmeśvara: He's very intelligent. He's big in Korea. Multimillionaire.

Hari-śauri: He makes rifles.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He has a big factory that makes weapons.

Rāmeśvara: He hates the Communists. He hates them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's why the American government likes him. A lot of big politicians in America are backing him because he's anti-Communist and he's a big man in Korea.

Prabhupāda: So he's already a big man.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Now you were referring to the Vedic principle, but that does not mean you have to open slaughterhouse. But these rascals are opening slaughterhouse. You think it is Vedic principle? Suppose it is recommended that animals should be sacrificed in the Vedic ritualistic ceremony. Does it mean that you shall open regular slaughterhouse? Just as the Christians say that Jesus Christ ate fish, therefore they are right in opening big, big slaughterhouse? Maybe Lord Jesus Christ ate fish in some awkward circumstance, but that does not mean that he is recommending to open slaughterhouse. In the Ten Commandments he says, "Thou shalt not kill." When there is absolute necessity, there is no other food, that is another thing, but if there is sufficient other foodstuff, why should you kill? They are not even human being, those who are animal killers. Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). Those who are animal killers, they are not even human being, what to speak of religious system. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt ka uttamaśloka-guṇa (SB 10.1.4). If you are animal killer, your God consciousness is finished. You'll never be able to understand what is God. Then your life is finished. This life is meant for understanding God, and if you are animal killer, then your God understanding is finished.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Indian man (7): Swamiji, how could you convince these Christian people that Christ was the son of God, or Kṛṣṇa was the...

Prabhupāda: Christ says himself that "I am the son of God." (laughter)

Indian man (7): Many Christians, they do not...

Prabhupāda: Many Christians also... There are so many Christian editions. That is another thing.

Bali-mardana: We have accepted.

Prabhupāda: But all these Christians, they all my students, they are coming from Christian. How they accept Kṛṣṇa as the father?

Guest (1): Prabhupāda, did Christ return to the spiritual planets then, when he left the earth, to be with Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: He is coming from spiritual planets. He is authorized representative of Kṛṣṇa, we accept him as śaktyāveśa-avatāra. So I was invited in some priestly meeting in Melbourne, they asked me the question, "What is your opinion of Christ?" So I said "He's our guru." (laughter)

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Hari-śauri: Was it a Catholic church or..., where you went?

Rāmeśvara: The Library Party said that everywhere they go in India, they find that you went there first with your first three volumes of Bhāgavatam. Especially in New Delhi, they said. There's one institute which had fifty sets of your original first canto, so now they ordered fifty complete sets to complete the books they had. They said that all the major colleges had your original Bhāgavatams in India, first edition. So then they could understand that you were distributing books yourself.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: They became very enlivened, inspired.

Prabhupāda: In India the sannyāsīs beg, but I did not beg. I sold my Back to Godhead, books. I got income tax free...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You always gave literature.

Prabhupāda: I think this church.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I mean the Christians have so many churches in every part of the city.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Similarly, we can have temples.

Rāmeśvara: You said that once in Los Angeles to me.

Prabhupāda: That Juhu temple, Akasganga, you know? Everyone asked me not to go there, "Nobody will go there." I said "It is Bombay city. Wherever you shall go, people will come."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The question is whether, if we open another temple, it will increase the total number of people coming, or whether simply the same people will come to two different locations.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if you have got demand, then you can open.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Bali-mardana: Yes. To reach heaven. That is how the Christians, in Christianity, explain that people speak different languages.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In Japan they never build big buildings because they know the earthquakes will come. They have maybe ten, twelve stories at the most.

Rādhāvallabha: (break) The big ones in New York, they build in such a way that it's very difficult to evacuate them in case of a fire, and this movie company did a movie of the two buildings burning up. So after that no one would move into them. They were half empty. So the city had to move all of its government offices into the buildings just to fill them. (dog barking) The Russian dogs are the largest dogs in the world.

Bali-mardana: Dogs to hunt wolves. These dogs are used to hunt wolves in Russia. (break)

Prabhupāda: (in car) ...saṅge calo, ei mātra bhikhā cāi. "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and come with us," that's all. We don't want any more. No fees. We don't say, "First of all pay so many dollars." There is no condition. "Simply chant and come here. We shall arrange for your food, we shall arrange for your shelter, everything." Still they will not come. They will go and pay fees and chant nonsense.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Therefore all the śāstras, they bring it within Christian era. Before that, India was uncivilized. And if they accept all the Vedic literature, so exalted, then they have to accept Indian civilization. That is their propaganda. Simply propaganda, that's all.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: What's the reason I'm curious? Ah, because we're trying to, at Newsweek, develop and try to understand what the trends are in religion, all types of religion, whether it be Christianity, Catholicism, Evangelicism...

Prabhupāda: Spiritual life is never retired. It is eternal. There is no question of retire.

Interviewer: I was wondering whether perhaps you would personally take a less active role.

Prabhupāda: No, I am not taking any very great active part. They are doing. I am simply reading.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: If you come to God consciousness, either through the Christian process or Chinese process or Indian process, it doesn't matter. But if you do not come to God consciousness, then it is all bogus.

Interviewer: But you can come to God consciousness through a variety of paths.

Bali-mardana: He's saying that. He's saying "if."

Rāmeśvara: He says, "But you can come to God consciousness by different processes."

Prabhupāda: No, different processes... Our...

Bali-mardana: Can do.

Prabhupāda: No, it is not that. The aim is to come to the God consciousness. And the means may be different. So that means is justified by the end. If at the end, you do not come to God consciousness, then whatever process you have, that is bogus. That is not bona fide.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: The Jewish, Biblical Christian tradition is traditional in the West, the Hindu tradition...

Prabhupāda: I never said that Jewish or Christian or Hindu or Muslim.

Bali-mardana: We aren't Hindus.

Prabhupāda: We do not belong either to the Hindus or Christian or Jewish. We belong to Kṛṣṇa or God. Kṛṣṇa means God.

Interviewer: Yeah, but you use the Hindu scriptures.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. Just like we say the sun, sūrya and you say the sun, the "sun." But the subject matter is the same. You say the sun in the sky as s-u-n, "sun." And we say in India sūrya. S-ū-r-y-a. So the name may be different but the object is the same.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: What's your view of Judaism and Christianity?

Prabhupāda: I have not studied, but any "ism," if it is meant for making the soul free from this bodily condition, that is first class "ism." Otherwise, it is simply waste of time.

Interviewer: Any religion that...

Prabhupāda: That gives facility.

Interviewer: Emphasizes making us free from the bodily condition.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interviewer: That's a first class religion.

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: I don't think Judaism and Christianity do that.

Prabhupāda: I do not know that.

Interviewer: They consider the body very important.

Prabhupāda: Again you come to the same. Body is important so long the soul is there. The car is important so long it is moving.

Interviewer: But they don't, they cherish the physical, you know, the world itself.

Prabhupāda: That is ignorance, that is ignorance.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: We have got students from every community. From Jewish community, from Christian community, from Muhammadan community, from Buddhist community, from Hindu community, everywhere. Because the knowledge is for everyone. It doesn't matter whether he's Jewish, Christian or... "Two plus two equal to four" is good for everyone. It is not that "two plus two" is good for the Christians, not for the Jews. Gold is gold.

Interviewer: I didn't get that.

Bali-mardana: The principle of, say, "two plus two equals four," is the same for a person whether he's Christian, Jewish, Muhammadan or whatever. Just as the same way that gold is gold. Gold always has it's value in any situation.

Prabhupāda: You cannot say because gold is in the hand of a Muhammadan it is Muhammadan gold, or if it is in the hand of a Christian it is Christian gold. Gold is gold.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: This bodily concept. They are thinking that they are body. "I am Muhammadan, I am Christian, I am American, I am Eastern, I am Western," all bodily conceptions.

Interviewer: You mean about the Eastern and Western?

Prabhupāda: Eastern, Western, that is also bodily conception. Why they are thinking Eastern, Western? Everyone is human being.

Interviewer: Well, what is it that they particularly understand, misunderstand about the movement?

Prabhupāda: They do not understand that we are talking on the spiritual platform and they are on the material bodily platform. Therefore they find contradiction. One has to be little sober to understand this movement and what platform we are speaking. They are accustomed, on the same example, hammering the bricks. And when they see others, they are not hammering the bricks, they think they are different. They cannot understand that life can be without hammering the bricks. Karmīs. In the Bhagavad-gītā, the word mūḍha, that has been explained by Viśvanātha Cakravartī, karmīs, these mūḍhas. They cannot understand.

Conversation After Interview with Religious Editor, Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Bali-mardana: Yes. You have given him a very unique interview, I think, with your analogies.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is there. Why they think Eastern, Western, Jewish, and...? We are talking of the human being. That is the misunderstanding going on, that this is Hindu religion, Eastern religion. Kṛṣṇa begins from the word dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Find out this. The rascals are taking Hindu, Muslim, Christian. Dehe, the body, and the inner force of the body, He's beginning His teaching. Where is the question of Hindu, Muslim, Christian and Jewish? Still they are misunderstanding, "This is Hindu."

Bali-mardana: It is very hard for them to understand.

Prabhupāda: This is science.

Conversation After Interview with Religious Editor, Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Now, kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, boyhood, childhood, youthhood, old age, is it for the Hindus? The Christians do not become child, do not become youth? Ayi. (Hindi)

Hari-śauri: This is Dr. Bhagat.

Prabhupāda: Bhagat. You are from Gujarat?

Dr. Bhagat: Gujarat, yes.

Hari-śauri: He's one of our life members also, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: She's your wife? Child? How many children you have got? How many children you have got?

Dr. Bhagat: One.

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: The Christians cannot organize. (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You saw them. The only thing they were carrying was one sign like this. The sign said "Turn or Burn." It means turn to Jesus or burn. Turn or burn, burn in hell. That's their conception of God. Either God or burn in hell. We could give you a good rest here, also, Prabhupāda, because it's very easy to not... If the devotees could see you on Sunday, just like in the old days in Los Angeles... I mean everything could be nicely done, and you could still visit the European centers when you finally return to India. I mean they are not making such a big thing that you couldn't come later on. Oh, boy.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) Good determination.

Interview with Religion Editor of The Observer -- July 23, 1976, London:

Cline Cross: I mean, what is your attitude towards Christianity?

Prabhupāda: Don't come to Christianity. I'm talking on religion, the science of religion. The religion... When we speak of religion, there is no question of Christianity or Muslim or Hindu. Just like when they speak of gold, gold is gold everywhere. Gold cannot be Muslim gold or Hindu gold or Christian gold. We are concerned with gold, not the country where the gold is produced. That is not very important thing. Whether it is gold, that is our business.

Cline Cross: I mean, would you count Jesus Christ as gold?

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not? He's speaking about the supreme controller, God, so why should we not? Anyone who is speaking about God... (break) Religion without science or philosophy is sentiment. And philosophy without religion is mental speculation. So they must be combined together. So far the controller is concerned, this is scientific understanding. Just like the father... We consider... Why we? Everyone. Either he is Christian or Muhammadan or Hindu, the conception of God is generally accepted as the supreme father.

Cline Cross: I mean, it is a fact.

Prabhupāda: It is fact.

Interview with Religion Editor of The Observer -- July 23, 1976, London:

Cline Cross: In England, the Christian Church in recent years or recent decades has been doing very badly and losing support. Your teaching could perhaps provide a substitute for the more traditional type of Christian teaching.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the science. Therefore I say religion without scientific idea, that is sentiment. It has no value. This is basic principle of religion that the mother is there, the children are there—there must be father. If you say "I do not see what is God," it doesn't matter. Sometimes the child after birth does not see his father. But that does not mean that he has no father, because without father there is no possibility of his existence.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of which religion, it is a question of science, that what is your position. You are a spiritual being, you are under the laws of nature. So you may believe.... Just like you may believe in Christian religion, I may believe in Hindu religion, but it does not mean that a Christian child is not going to become a boy. We are talking of the science, that the child become a boy. This is natural law. It is not that because you are Christian you are becoming a boy, or because I am Hindu I am becoming.... Everyone becomes a boy. So similarly, the laws of nature is applicable to everyone. You believe this religion or that religion, it doesn't matter.

Mike Robinson: So you're saying there's only one God.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa movement means one who is serious to understand this science-he's member of Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. There's no question of he belongs to some group, anyone, student. Just like in a college, students can be admitted. He may be a Christian, he may be a Hindu, he may be Muhammadan, it doesn't matter. It is a science to understand.

Mike Robinson: And what difference would it make to him, being taught what the Hare Kṛṣṇa people...

Prabhupāda: This is the beginning of education, that you are a spirit soul. Because you are spirit soul you are changing bodies. This is the understanding, beginning A-B-C-D. So when the body is finished, annihilated, you are not finished—you get another body. Just like you have got this coat and shirt. If you change tomorrow, you come to me in another shirt or another coat, that means you are not finished. This science has to be understood. Then one can make progress about the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Just like they, most religions, they say, "We believe." So what is this believe? You may believe something which is not naturally correct. Just like some of the Christian people, they say "We believe there is no soul of the animal." That is not correct. You have believed because you want to eat the animal. You have discovered philosophy, but that's not the fact.

Mike Robinson: How do you know the animal has a soul?

Prabhupāda: You can know also. What is the difference? How do you distinguish that the animal has no soul and the man has soul? How do you distinguish? How do you say the man has soul and the animal has no soul? How do you distinguish?

Mike Robinson: I believe this Christian religion do it because their scriptures say...

Prabhupāda: Again you believe, don't believe, don't believe. When you say that the animal has no soul, but you believe or you know that man has soul. So what is the distinction between the man and the animal you find so that you say that the animal has no soul? What is your scientific conclusion? How do you say that animal has no soul?

Mike Robinson: As far as the Christian faith is concerned, doesn't it base it...

Prabhupāda: Why are you bringing Christian?

Mike Robinson: Well, I thought you quoted Christianity. But as far as the Christian faith is concerned, don't they quote their scriptures?

Prabhupāda: Then it is misleading. As soon as you say that "We Christians, we believe," then it is misbelief. It is not scientific.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Mike Robinson: I can see that completely, but what I'm maybe querying is, for instance, the Christian scriptures would say that someone...

Prabhupāda: Don't bring Christian scripture now. Simply you just try to understand, that animal eats, you eat, and the animal sleeps, you sleep. The animals have sex, you have got sex. He also defends when he's attacked, you also defend. Then if the behavior of a living being is the same, how do you say that the animal has no soul? Why do you say like that? Irresponsibly?

Mike Robinson: I see what you're getting at, but is that also...

Prabhupāda: What is your answer, first of all?

Mike Robinson: Well, my...

Prabhupāda: Apart from your believing as Christian. As we are talking, as a scientist, how do you deny this animal has no soul?

Mike Robinson: But ultimately you're basing all your faith factually, aren't you, on your reasoning?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. It is quite logic, that the animal can eat, you can eat; the animal can sleep, you can sleep.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Our religion is science. As we, when we speak, that a child grows a boy, it is science, it is not religion. Every child grows to become a boy. Where is the question of religion? Every man dies. Where is the question of religion? And when a man dies, the body is useless. So where is the question of religion? It is science, it is science. Either you Christian or Hindu or Muslim, when you die your body's useless. This is science. You cannot say that "We are Christian. Now the body is dead. Now we don't consider it as dead. We believe it is not dead." No, it is dead. Either you are Christian or Hindu or Muslim, it is dead, it is useless. So when we speak, we speak on this basis, that the body is important—it doesn't matter whether it is Christian body or Hindu body or Muslim body—so long the soul is there. When the soul is not there, it is useless. It is applicable to everyone.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Hari-śauri: Obeying the Supreme Person.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Religion means to learn how to obey the supreme controller. That is religion. So you may be Christian, I may be Hindu, it doesn't matter. But we must accept there is a supreme controller.

Mike Robinson: Are you happy to carry on for a few more minutes perhaps?

Hari-śauri: I have that reference, in the dictionary. It says "Human recognition of superhuman controlling power..."

Prabhupāda: Just see!

Hari-śauri: "...and especially of a personal God entitled to obedience, and effect of such recognition on the conduct of mental attitude."

Prabhupāda: This is religion. This is religion. So this religion is applicable to everyone, any human being. Why do you bring Christian or Hindu or Muslim, or...? Everyone has to accept that. That is real religion. And this is not religion, "We believe there is no soul of the animal." That is not religion. That is most unscientific. That is not religion. Religion means scientific understanding of the supreme controller. So now if you accept the supreme controller, then if you violate something, you must be punished. Immediately you have to accept. As soon as you accept there is supreme controller, so immediately as you violate the laws of the supreme controller, immediately you are punished. That is nature's law.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Keep in the right place. Keep.... Yes. They are thinking like it is another religious system, like Christianity. So.... If they are so fools, they are giving up one system and coming to another system? Why they should come at all? There is no necessity. And what advantage I am giving.

Harikeśa: In fact, quite a few disadvantages.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Bhagavān: They are called Christian Democrats.

Prabhupāda: They can manufacture so many. Fertile brain in the tract of deserted world. This world is desert, and they have got fertile brain. They call? The fertile land in the deserted land, in the desert, is called oasis. So similarly, these rascals, they have got fertile brain in the world of desert, where there is no happiness. But they have got fertile brain, how to manufacture happiness. And māyā kicks on their face and baffles everything. This is the illusion. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā (BG 7.14). They, the world is desert, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15), but they have got fertile brain, how to become happy. And as soon as they make some arrangement, kicks on his face and he falls down. That's all. What do you think? Is it right? Sometimes you have got fertile brain. (laughter) This fertile brain, he will not accept. He'll be kicked out. Everything will be finished. If you want to be happy, then you have to go back home, back to Kṛṣṇa. That is the only way. Otherwise, your fertile brain will... What do you think, Jyotirmāyī? You are intelligent.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Yogeśvara: Professor's upstairs putting on a dhotī. He brought his daughter. Professor Chenique teaches a course in Bhagavad-gītā at the University, and he is also doing translations of Śaṅkarācārya and teaches for the Federation of Yoga. He considers himself a Christian Advaitist. (break) ...some questions regarding the publications in French. For example, on the front of Back to Godhead magazine, in the English edition and other language editions, they have kept the phrase "Godhead is light, darkness is nescience. Where there is Godhead there is no nescience." Now in French it is difficult to translate that. There is no word Godhead. And if you say "God is light," in French it sounds very impersonalist. In French, Dieux est lumiere, "God is light." Many groups say like that. We use the word Godhead, and that distinguishes us from the other groups. Now is the phrase very important, and do you want us to keep it on the front of the magazine? It should be there.

Prabhupāda: There is a little difference between God and Godhead.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: They do not know. They do not know what is God, what is Godhead. They think all these are fictitious. Throughout the whole world they do not know what is God. Simply they know the word, that's all. What it means they do not know. That we are giving. Here is God. Godhead. Nobody knows, nobody cares to know. That is nescience. They think it is an idea, that's all. Actually there is God, there is kingdom of God, one can go and speak with Him, dance with Him. They cannot believe there are... It is beyond their poor fund of knowledge. Therefore they do not accept Kṛṣṇa as God. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). God is the Supreme Person, Supreme Being. Actually there is place where God lives. They do not know. This is first time, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are giving these ideas; otherwise, who knows it? Nobody knows it. The Christian or Muhammadan is... Nobody knows. And religion means to accept God as the Supreme Person. They do not know God. Then what is meaning of religion? Religion means to accept a Supreme Person as the supreme controller. That is religion. How the Supreme Person is working in manufacturing this flower, let the scientists explain. There is no brain? Just nicely painted, symmetrically, each flower of the same class; another class, another class, another class. (guests enters) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Bhūgarbha: He says Christianity says the same thing. Not the Christianity of today, but original Christianity said the same thing.

Prabhupāda: Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). This is the Vedānta. We are, as spirit soul, being part and parcel of the Supreme, ānanda is our goal, ānanda, blissfulness. But that blissfulness, you cannot get simply by understanding sat-cit. You must come to the platform of ānanda. That is Kṛṣṇa. So because these so-called jñānīs, they do not get ānanda, they do not have the entrance into the ānanda platform, they come to this material ānanda, this material pleasure. Therefore they take to this hospitality or opening a school or philanthropic work, another type of this material pleasure.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Yogeśvara: Once Professor Chenique asked me whether we thought it was possible for a Christian like himself to also realize the perfection of Vaiṣṇavism.

Prabhupāda: Why not? Christianity in Vaiṣṇavism. Christianism is Vaiṣṇavism. Anyone who accepts the supremacy of God, he's a Vaiṣṇava. So Christian, Christianity, "God is great," they say. So that is Vaiṣṇavism, "God is great."

Professor Chenique: Oui, but now the Christians say that God is dead.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bhūgarbha: Now the Christians say God is dead.

Prabhupāda: No, that is not Christianity. If you can change, there is no religion. That is mental concoction. As soon as you make change, we reject immediately, useless. Religion (is) the world of God. Religion means the word of God. You cannot change the word of God. If you change the word of God, that is material, that is not religion. You cannot change the word of God by your votes. That is useless.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Oh. The definition of religion is just like law. Law can be given by the government. You cannot make law. If you make at home some law, nobody will touch it. It is not obligatory. But if government says "Keep to the right," it is obligatory. This is law. So religion, you cannot manufacture religion. Religion means the word of God. And if yearly or quarterly you change the words, that is not religion. That is not religion. That is mental concoction. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. No change. Others, they are interpreting in their own way. That is not Bhagavad-gītā. That is something else. (to devotee:) Keep it there. He will take. In the words of God there is no question of changing. You cannot change. As soon as you make a change, immediately it is material; it has nothing to do with spiritual world. The same example, the law of government is one, and if you make change, that is not law. Government says "Keep to the right," you have to keep to the right. You cannot make "Keep to the left," no. That is nowadays happening—which edition of Christianity? There are so many. Therefore it is, the purport of Christianity is lost. That is lost.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Bhūgarbha: He feels that because he read all of these other books during his youth that now he's come to the point he can appreciate Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyone who is after truth, he'll appreciate truth. That's a fact. Satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi (SB 1.1.1). That is the Bhāgavata beginning. Satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi. If one is after truth, he'll appreciate truth wherever it is. Every point, from any angle of vision, those who are searching after truth, everything is explained. Primarily in the Bhagavad-gītā, and elaborately in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So about the Christian religion, what is the conception of God?

Bhūgarbha: (translating) If I speak in English then I'll say that God is the father, the son and the Holy Ghost—not one person, but three persons. But if I want to say the same thing in Sanskrit, then I'll say sac-cid-ānanda.

Prabhupāda: Three persons? God is three persons?

Bhūgarbha: Father, the son and the Holy Spirit. But he says that that means the same thing, as far as he's concerned, as sac-cid-ānanda.

Prabhupāda: So why three persons? God is one. Expansion, you can say expansion. Just like brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti (SB 1.2.11). The person is one. In the dictionary it is said, "God, the Supreme Being," is it not? Person is one. So person is one, now His expansion, His son, His spirit, what is that? Holy Spirit... That is another thing. But the person is one, the Supreme. What is the definition of God? Just see.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Bhūgarbha: He said that in Christianity it's more complicated than that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Person is one, but they have no idea the Supreme Person can expand. What is that?

Hari-śauri: It says, "Superhuman being, worshiped as having power over nature and human fortunes; Deity."

Prabhupāda: God?

Hari-śauri: Yes, this is the definition of God. "Superhuman being."

Prabhupāda: Human being?

Hari-śauri: "Superhuman being. Worshiped as having power over nature and over human fortunes."

Bhūgarbha: Demigods.

Prabhupāda: No other definition? God Supreme Being is not there?

Hari-śauri: "Supreme Being, creator and ruler of the universe."

Prabhupāda: Yes, Supreme Being. Supreme Being means one. There cannot be many Supreme. But He can expand.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Bhūgarbha: He says Christianity is actually coherent, but one has to study it very deeply to understand.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bhūgarbha: He says just like Vaiṣṇavism is also coherent, but one has to study very deeply. Otherwise, one cannot see it. He said if we examine all the religions and find out the axiomatic truths of every religion, we'll see how they are all coherent.

Prabhupāda: No. The thing is that religion means to understand God. If one does not understand God, then his religion is still defective. Religion means to understand God. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje ahaituky apratihatā (SB 1.2.6). When you understand God and your relationship with God, then it is perfection of religion.

Morning Walk at Niavaran Park -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Nava-yauvana: Dharma is for the envious?

Prabhupāda: Yes, so-called dharmas. Just like we have created so many dharma, Hindu dharma, Muslim dharma, Christian dharma. They are so-called. They are not dharmas. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Dharma means what is given to you by the Supreme Lord, that is dharma. Otherwise, if you manufacture some ritualistic ceremonies, some formulas, some dogmas, that is cheating. That is not religion. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ. That is first-class religion. What is that? Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. Wherefrom you learn how to love God. If you learn, "I believe this," "I believe that," "This is our ritualistic ceremony," these are all cheating. As people are cheating one another in different ways, this is another cheating. That's all. They will say, "We believe in this way," "We believe in that way." So what is that, you believe in that way? What is the fact? If you believe something wrong, is that to be taken as religion? We say tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Other religious sect, they say this is Hindu belief. It is not question of Hindu belief. It is the fact. Does it mean that a Muhammadan or Christian child does not become a boy? When Kṛṣṇa says dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā: (BG 2.13) just like the child is becoming boy, boy is becoming young. This is science. And why do you say it is Hindu belief? Does it mean that a Muslim or Christian child does not become a boy? What do you mean by Hindu belief? But they say it like that, Hindu belief. Is that correct if somebody says it is Hindu belief? No, it is fact, it is science. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Similarly, you have to change this body, another body.

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Harikeśa: I heard you like it very much.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The more you become eager to know God, God will reveal Himself. From our side, we should not be stereotyped. People in different sects of religion, they say, "We believe." But they do not want to go further than they believe. That is very difficult. You must be dynamic and progressive, then you will have. I have talked with many sects, especially Christian priests. They will say "We believe," no more further than that. So knowledge is not like that. Knowledge must be progressive. "We believe there is no soul of the animal"—bas, fixed up. You believe like a rascal, so I shall remain rascal. What is this? We should be progressive. That is wanted. Of course, in the lower stage one may have a type of belief, but if you want more clearly, you must be progressive. According to Vedānta system, the life, human life, is only for inquiring about Brahman. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. We shall talk again.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:
Prabhupāda: So this life should be utilized for purifying ourself from this designation. If you keep the designation then there is no possibility of purification. You'll get another designation. Now we are Indian or Iranian, next a sparrow or a crow or a tree or a demigod. Another designation. Just like the same, the child, a baby, on the lap of the mother, a baby, and another designation, boy, another designation young man, another designation, old man. But the spirit soul is the same. He's simply changing designations. So freedom means freedom from all these designations. I am spirit, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. I am spirit soul, my business is spiritual activity. So long we want to keep designation, you'll have to accept material body and suffer. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to educate people how to become free from designations. Therefore we accept from any group. If I think that he is under designation... But our business is to make him free from the designation. We therefore welcome anyone. He may come with designation, but if he lives with us, he follows our rules and regulations, he becomes free from designation. And this so-called designated religious system will not help us. If we keep ourself on the designated platform—I am American, I am Indian, I am Iranian, I am Hindu, I am Muslim, I am Christian, I am Buddhist—then we have to continue in that designation. There is no question of freedom.
Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: And to love God we must have definite idea of God, our exchange. Just like materially also, if somebody loves somebody, one must know each other. Otherwise where there is question of love? Love means direct contact. So they speak of love of Godhead. Just like the Christian people, they say "Love of Godhead." But they have no idea who is God. So where is the question of love? It is an impractical proposition, love of Godhead. First of all, you must know who is God. If I love somebody, I must know him, what he is. So this is going on. They speak of love of Godhead, but they do not know who is God or what is God. Therefore they are misguided. Simply it is words. There is no practical value. Do you agree with this point or not? If you have no idea of God, if you have no business with God, then where is the question of love? What is the definition of love, huh? What is the definition of love?

Ali: We talk about love, but I think you should personally, an individual should experience. My definition would be, a, uh, unworthy.

Prabhupāda: Definition of love, you can explain what is definition of love.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Ali: Sure, that is what I am practicing right now.

Prabhupāda: Yes, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The spirit soul, which is eternal, which is never lost, even by the annihilation of the body, we have to understand about that thing, that is spiritual knowledge. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā lesson. First to understand what you are, you are not this body. This is spiritual knowledge. When one understands thoroughly that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul," then he is no more Hindu, Muhammadan, or Christian or nothing. He's spirit soul, brahma-bhutaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). That is called brahma-bhutaḥ. At that time, there is no such conception, that "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this," "I am that." Because he's not body. He's not body. That is pure understanding. And then spiritual knowledge begins. So long I shall think myself as Hindu, Muslim, Christian, there is no spiritual knowledge. That is material knowledge.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Ali: The way I look at it, it's better to talk about God than to talk about...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is good. One must be serious, that we are talking about God, so what is my God realization? That is nice. Otherwise, if I go on life after life talking about God and there is no God realization... That is going on. Śrama eva hi kevalam.

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ
viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ
notpādayed yadi ratiṁ
śrama eva hi kevalam
(SB 1.2.8)

We are talking of God, but instead of loving God, we are loving this body. So that is not practical. That is simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam. If one does not become enthused to love God, then simply talking about God is a waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam. That is going on all over the world. Somebody's Hindu, somebody's Christian, somebody's Muhammadan, they are going to the church, they are going to the mosque, they are going to the temple, everything is going on, but when you ask whether you love God or dog, he'll say, "I love dog." Practically we see. Everyone is keeping a dog, very favorite pet. And in church, they'll talk of God, but practically they love the dog. Is it not? This is going on, in the name of religion, that's all. Therefore Bhāgavata says it is simply waste of time. What is the use of talking God? If by talking of God perpetually you are developing your love for dog, then what is the use? Śrama eva hi kevalam. It is simply waste of time. These are all discussed. Regularly going to the church, regularly going to the mosque or temple, but the love is for material things, not for God.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Rituals are meant for the neophytes who are given education to begin with. But if he's stuck up with rituals, do not make any further progress, then his progress is checked. You have to go, progress, more progress. Instead of having no sense of God, they, if it is prescribed that "Go to the mosque and pray to God, five times," that is good, ritualistic. At least you're accepting there is God, I must offer. Similarly... This is Muslim process. Hindu process, they say go to the temple and see God. And this Christian, go to the church and offer... The subject matter is the same—accept God. Accept God. But the ultimate, shall we say, goal is not only accept God... They go to God for some material benefit, because they have no other idea. Like the Christians say, "O God, give us our daily bread." I do not know what the Muhammadans say in the prayer. Hindus also, they go to God, "Sir, I am very poor, give me some money," or "I am diseased, please cure me." So these things are the same in different ways according to country and customs. But it is good because they have approached God. That much is good. They are accepting there is God. That much is good. But when he makes further progress, that there is God, what kind of person He is, what is His business, then you make further progress. So these, for the neophyte, these ritualistic formula is good, but he must make further progress. Instead of godlessness, these processes are better. Let him go to the mosque, let him go to the temple, let him go to the church. At least, let him maintain the idea of God. That is the ritualistic.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Muslim religion, it seems to me, is closer to Vedic culture than Christian. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...given to the modern scientist one proposal, egg proposal. You explain.

Hari-śauri: That if the scientist are so expert then they should be able to back up their claim of life coming from chemicals. Then why can't they produce an egg which will give life? They can take some chemicals and make the white, and take some little coloring to make it yellow inside, and wrap it up in some modern synthetic casing, and then put it in an incubator and let it produce life.

Prabhupāda: What is the difficulty? These rascals, it is proposed that life comes from chemicals. So take a small egg and analyze, find out the chemicals, same chemicals combine together, and bring life. Why? What is the answer? He's for the modern scientists. (laughter) He represents them.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: What is sectarian? Every sect the child is dependent of the parents. What do you mean by sectarian? Does it mean the Hindu child does not depend on the parents? The Muslim child depends on the parents? Everyone depends on the parents. Either he may be Hindu child or Muslim child or Christian child, that is the nature of the child. Similarly, you may be Hindu, you may be Muslim, you are dependent on God. This is a fact. What is sectarian? Can the Muslims say that "No, no, we are not dependent on God"? Can the Christians say like that? We have to take the general condition: everyone is dependent on God. Where is the question of sectarian? Now this cloud, it is clouded, everyone is expecting some rain. Does it mean the rain is Hindu rain or Muslim rain or Christian rain? Dependent on cloud. Everyone is expecting rain. It doesn't matter whether he's Hindu, Muslim or Christian. Why they declare independence?

Jñānagamya: They say independence means you don't need anything.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Nava-yauvana: He's trying to define independence, and he said independence means you don't need anything.

Atreya Ṛṣi: If you have no needs. Independence means that you have no need for anything else.

Prabhupāda: No, even if you have needs, if you can supply need, your needs you can supply yourself, then you can call independent. But that is not the position. You cannot get the supplies independently. Why you are expecting cloud? Because if there is rainfall, there will be vegetation. Then you will be able to grow food. So you are dependent. Independently you cannot create cloud. So where is your independence? Every step, you are dependent. Independently you cannot create cloud. So where is your independence? Every step, you are dependent.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Mrs. Sahani: Knowledge is there in all the religions.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Religion is now misunderstood. Religion is described in the dictionary, "a faith." So faith..., your faith may be something, my faith may be something, that is not religion. Religion is described in the Vedic literature, "the law given by God." That is religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). So, just like law means the order given by the state, similarly, religion means the order given by God. So if you do not know what is God, what is His order, then what is your religion? Do you believe it or not? If you do not know what is God, if you do not know what is His word or what is His order, then where is your religion? If you do not know what is the government and if you do not know what is the government's order, then where is the question of law-abiding? Religion means, according to Vedic description.... Just like Kṛṣṇa said, mām ekām śaraṇaṁ vraja. This is religion. Sarva-dharmān parityajya: (BG 18.66) "Give up all this nonsense. Surrender unto Me." So what is the objection? Religion is one, surrender to God. So where is the objection? And God says that "You surrender to Me." So where is the objection? Religion cannot be two. Religion is one, surrender to God. If I say, "You are Muslim, you surrender to God, " do you have any objection? If I say to Christian, "You surrender to God," will he have any objection? Therefore religion is one; there cannot be two religions. Why you are bringing other religions? There is no question of other religions. Religion is one.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That is the highest knowledge. It doesn't matter whether you are Muhammadan, Christian or Hindu or this or that. Whether you know God and you have fully surrendered to Him, then it is perfect. Otherwise, it is simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevamalam. If you simply perform the ritualistic ceremonies very strictly, but you have no idea of God, you have no knowledge how to love Him, it is simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam.

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ
viṣvaksena kathāsu yaḥ
notpādayed yadi ratiṁ
śrama eva hi kevalam
(SB 1.2.8)

You are very religious, very nice, but are you interested with God or dog? "No, I am interested with dog." Then where is religion? Religion means you must be interested with God. That is religion What is the report? How much they are interested now?

Nava-yauvana: Forty million pounds.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Forty million pounds are being spent in Germany to take care of dog. This is advancement of civilization.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: These Christian people, they have got money, and still the churches are being closed. What is the effect?

Jñānagamya: They have no potency to their message. It's not the medium, it's their message.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, by their advertisement, the effect is the church is being closed. Eh? Is it not?

Jñānagamya: But there is also a movement in America, in Christianity, but they do not want to go to church. They want to be Christians, but not go to church.

Prabhupāda: That means it has no effect. Now talk about something substantial. Yesterday we were talking about the proprietorship of God. So if people are interested to talk like gentlemen, how they can refute the proprietorship of God of everything? Talk on this point.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That is another rascal. Because everyone, every living entity is dependent on the father's arrangement. God is the supreme father. He was a Christian or not, Freud? What he was?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: He was mainly Freudian, he believed in himself.

Hari-śauri: He had his own philosophy.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: He was Christian.

Prabhupāda: Christian. So why the Christian go and, go to the father, "Give us our daily bread"? That means that you are dependent on father. How you can say independent?

Hari-śauri: But that's the point, that we have to grow up and become dependent on our own work.

Prabhupāda: No, the Vedic injunction is eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. God means He's supplying the necessities of all his sons. That is God. And that is practical. You are dependent. The animals, they are dependent on grass. So wherefrom the grass is coming? Why that land is deserted and this land is green place. Can you change it? Why you don't change the desert to be green? So if you think that "I'm living on animal, I don't care for grass," but the animal depending on grass, and the grass is depending on God's mercy. So how you can say you are not dependent on God? You are dependent. But because you are a rascal fraud, you want to cheat and become a Freud, that's all. You are a great fraud, therefore you're talking like that. You are dependent on God in every step. You cannot be independent. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ ahaṅkāra, find out this verse.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Then you are animal, because animal has no rationality. Then you are animal. Better not to talk with you. What is the use of talking with you? You are animal. You have no rationality. Man is rational animal, this is the definition. You have no rationality, therefore you are animal. What is the use of talking with you? Waste time. If you have no rationality, then you are animal. That is the difficulty. People are kept in the status of animal and they are expected human behavior. How it is possible? It is not possible. So therefore our endeavor is to bring them to the standard of humanity, real humanity. Then there will be peace, prosperity, everything all right. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You don't care for rationality, that means you are animal. Man is rational animal, that is the definition. If you have no rationality... Dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ... This is Vedic injunction. Dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ samāna. Anyone who has no religious principles, he's animal. Therefore you'll find in human society, it doesn't matter whether it is Iran or India or Europe, there is some religion. Because without religion they are animals. Animal has no religion. The animal is... Dog is dog. It is not a Christian dog or a Hindu dog. Hindu, Christian comes when they are human being. So a civilized society must be the rationality, religion. Religion is rationality, to accept God. What is religion? Religion means to accept God.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Nava-yauvana: Also they say that religions are the causes of war. In Lebanon now the Christians are killing the Muslims and the Muslims are killing the Christians in the name of...

Prabhupāda: And the Communists are killing capitalists and capitalists are killing Communists. What is that? Is that religion? Then? How you can stop war? Because you are animal, you fight, you can give some name, either on religious ground or this philosophical ground. But because you are animal you will fight. You can give a different name. That is different thing. But because you are dogs, you'll fight. The real religion is why they will fight? Religion means to accept God. So if you are Muslim, I am Hindu, if I accept God, if You accept God, then where is fight? If we accept that God is the proprietor, God is the father, then where is the question of fight? Because we are not religious, therefore fight. Otherwise, if you accept God is the supreme father, if I accept God is the supreme, why fight? We have to go down?

Nava-yauvana: Everything you say, Prabhupāda, makes sense. Everything you say makes sense.

Prabhupāda: Yes, our preaching should be sensible, then people will accept. After all, they are human being. There is sense, but by force they are covering the sense. So we have to awaken them by handling carefully, that's all. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, jīv jāgo, jīv jāgo gauracānda bole. Who are... Uttiṣṭhata jāgrata prāpya varan nibodhata. They are sleeping. We have awaken them, that's it. That is preaching. Even the animal-killing, where it is absolutely necessary... So according to any religious principle, there is God. Just like who was telling me? You were telling me about the lamb killing? The injunction is the mouth(?) should be toward Mecca. Is it like that?

Nava-yauvana: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda:

yaṁ brahmā varuṇendra rudra marutaḥ stunvanti divyaiḥ stavair
vedaiḥ sāṅga-pada-kramopaniṣadair gāyanti yaṁ sāma-gāḥ
dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yogino
yasyāntaṁ na viduḥ surāsura-gaṇā devāya tasmai namaḥ

In Vedic prayer it is like this. Yasyāntaṁ na viduḥ surāsura-gaṇāḥ. Yasya antam, the glories of the Lord, unlimited. So nobody can go to the limit of His glorification, either the sura or asura, the demons or the demigods. Nobody can reach. But He's glorified by the demigods like, yaṁ brahmā, Brahmā, Lord Brahmā, Śiva, Varuṇa, the predominating deity of air, fire, Lord Brahmā. Everyone worships Him, yaṁ brahmā varuṇendra-rudra stunvanti divyaiḥ stavaiḥ, by glorified prayers. And gāyanti yaṁ sāma-gāḥ. Vedaiḥ sāṅga-pada-kramopaniṣadaiḥ—by Vedic hymns, by Upaniṣad, by Vedic literature. Gāyanti yaṁ sāma-gāḥ. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). The yogis in meditation try to find out Him within the core of the heart. Yasyāntaṁ na viduḥ surāsura-gaṇā devāya tasmai namaḥ. The same prayer. The difference is the action. Difference is in the action. So far prayer is concerned, God is great, accepted, either by the Christian or the Muhammadan or the Hindus or the followers of Vedic principles.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And it is selling where? Where they are not Hindus.

Indian man: Yes, all Christian countries, so-called, Westernized countries.

Prabhupāda: In the country of Hindus it is selling very less in comparison to what we are selling daily.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's hard to talk (?). Vṛndāvana also is doing six, seven hundred rupees a day in book sales.

Prabhupāda: Still, six lakhs or six hundred. No, I say this is unique in the history. Now we have got... we are going to print, next our printing program... Bring it from Harikeśa. I am being surprised. Fifty thousand, one lakh, five hundred thousand each item.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Jayapatākā: Favorable reply. He said, "This is a good project. It will help the district." He only said that they should maybe get three hundred acres instead of 350 or like that. He reduced something. Then that went back again to the Commissioner, who was a Christian. He's the one I mentioned. He wrote bad report. Then when Choudhuri got it, he wrote a very good report. He wrote a very good report. He said that there's no question of Hindu or Muslim. Just like in Bangkok they have that one big Viṣṇu Temple. Or the Taj Mahal. This is no longer any type of religious. This is for all mankind. Similarly this Māyāpur will be a monument for the whole mankind.

Prabhupāda: For the whole world.

Room Conversation -- August 20, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: This is morality. "You commit immorality as much as you like. You simply admit it. Then it's right" (indistinct) This is their propaganda. They do not want to stop immorality. "You do, and don't hide it—you admit." But persons are so shameless that they will continually do, and they have no shamefulness to hide even. That is the Christian theory, that "Our religion is so... Maybe we are unable to remain without any sin. Christ will excuse us." Is it not? This is going on. This is.

Saurabha: They're also criticized a lot there. They have been criticized a lot there locally. People, they think they are CIA.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Us?

Saurabha: No. The MRA. Because they have big meetings twice a year only.

Prabhupāda: The MRA, they are Americans?

Saurabha: Yes. Most are Europeans, Americans.

Prabhupāda: This movement was started by President Eisenhower with the help of a Christian priest.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That Chicago Address was the worst. He is defying, "Why you give credit to God?" This is the... We have seen that Chicago Address. Now they are eliminating. Most blasphemous. One Christian priest, he was surprised, "What kind of nonsense these Indians are..." He asked him, "How you are speaking in this way, 'Why you are giving credit to God?' " He said like that, "You are working, why you are giving credit to God?" This is Vivekananda's realization. And he created God, a illiterate priest, he become God. Because he said, "I am God." That is the proof.

Jayapatākā: Because he said?

Prabhupāda: "I am God. I am the same Rāma, same Kṛṣṇa." Therefore his name is Ramakrishna. He was Gadadhar Chatterji, and he said to his disciple, Vivekananda, first-class rogue, that, "I am the same Rāma, same Kṛṣṇa." So he took it. This is evidence. Because Kṛṣṇa says "I am the Supreme." So he said, "I am the same Rāma, same Kṛṣṇa." This is the evidence. If Kṛṣṇa can say, he can say also. This institution is the most harmful institution for Vedic culture.

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Minister: Mostly it is utilized for that. Almost completely. Only one or two is mere what is called charity. The industry, there's been a wrong impression that we are working directly with industry.

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is... It should be utilized simply for the purpose of awakening the devotional, what is called-inspiration. For no other purpose. Just like in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti. Kṛṣṇa-bhakti, nitya-siddha. This is our natural... Just like these Europeans and Americans, they have become Kṛṣṇa bhaktas. So what business they had to do with Kṛṣṇa? They're coming from Christian family, Jewish families, or some of them Mohammedan family. So what they have got to do with Kṛṣṇa? They haven't got to do anything with Kṛṣṇa. So how they have become a Kṛṣṇa bhakta? Even the... Just like he is coming from Parsee family, he is coming from Jewish family, he is coming from Christian family, he is coming from Europe, he is coming from America. So what they have got to do with Kṛṣṇa? We Indians or Hindus, we may have some concern with Kṛṣṇa, but what they have got? They haven't got anything to do with Kṛṣṇa. Now you pay them one lakh of rupees and ask them, "You become again Christian. You become again Parsee." Just see. Make them again Christian. Practical. These are young boys. You ask them, that "I'll give you good girl, I'll give you good money. You give up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness-come here." Ask them, make a test. They'll refuse, they'll kick out. How they have become? Therefore it is a fact, as it is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, kṛṣṇa-bhakti nitya-siddha. Everyone has got Kṛṣṇa bhakti eternally. It is not artificial. They have not become Kṛṣṇa bhakta artificially. It is the eternal link that has been awakened.

Garden Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Materially there are so many divisions, but spiritual they are all servant of Kṛṣṇa. Nobody is yavana, nobody is brāhmaṇa. Everyone is servant of Kṛṣṇa. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). We are going there not to make the yavanas a brāhmaṇa. That is not our mission. Our business is... We know that he is servant of Kṛṣṇa. Forgetting Kṛṣṇa, he's thinking himself as Turkish, as Muhammadan, as Jewish, as Christian. This is his disease. So let me cure his disease. Why he should be called yavana? That is artificial. He's Kṛṣṇa dāsa. Jivera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). Just like when a physician treats a patient, does he think that here is a Christian, here is a Muhammadan, here is a Hindu? He takes as patient. Never mind what he is. And he gives treatment. He never thinks that here is a Christian patient, here is a Muhammadan patient. He is patient. Give me this, bring him medicine. That is physician's business. Why should we consider, "Here is a Christian patient. He should be treated differently than the Muhammadan." Does he think like that? Does he think? Does any physician honestly think that "Here is a Christian patient, special care should be taken for him?" No. If he is physician, he should give the equal treatment to everyone.

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Our movement, all over the world they have joined. Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, and Africans. All, everywhere.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "ISKCON has devotees in all parts of the world in all nationalities, including Muslims."

Prabhupāda: Samaḥ sarveṣu-bhūteṣu.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "Should the government need any further information we will be more than happy and pleased to cooperate in all respects. With kindest regards. Your sincerely, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa dāsa, Secretary, ISKCON." It's okay?

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is nicely done.

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...of United Nations. (Hindi) ...practically they do. Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Jews, African, and so...

Indian man: Real United Nations.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The real United Nations. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. (Hindi) Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna. Not otherwise. In some place I said that this United Nations...

Hari-śauri: Oh, in Melbourne. In Melbourne they put it on the front page.

Prabhupāda: Melbourne, yes. It was published in the paper, that "It is a dog's barking association." (laughter) It was published.

Room Conversation (Bullock Cart SKP) -- September 12, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This is the first time. Otherwise, they do not know what is God. Now you are coming from Christian community. Did you have any idea of God?

Dhanañjaya: Just God is great.

Prabhupāda: That's all... But what is that great? What is God you do not know. We know. Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). There is no more greater principle than Me. That is great. How you are great? Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). "I am the origin of all the demigods." Next how you are great? Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). This is their ignorance. They have simply heard God is great, but how He is great, that they do not know. Here is the... God is personally speaking, "Yes, I am great in this way." Ahaṁ sarvasya. Vedānta says janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). That is greatness. The original source of everything. So we are presenting God, "Here is God." Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ (SB 1.3.28). There are other incarnations, but kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. That's a fact. So try to present the real fact. It will be effective. If there is real reality, just like first class pure ghee... If one tastes, he'll hanker after. Without any advertisement, by the taste of the ghee, it will go on. Is it not? If you put little pure ghee on the rice, it will be so tasteful, that he'll want it again. But give the pure thing. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Interviewer: Are you getting any opposition from the church?

Prabhupāda: No. That is very favorable. No. Otherwise, it was impossible. At least in America they have never prevented me. But in Europe especially in England and Germany, they, the Christian group, they are little angry with me. But so far America, they are very liberal. They never put any impediments in my movement. Rather, government appreciates. The appreciated one point, that the American younger generation, they have become addicted to this LSD, intoxication, and they have spent millions of dollars to stop this, but they could not. But they are surprised that as soon as this LSD man becomes my disciple, he gives up immediately.

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: So why you are forced? Suppose as preaching work... In our childhood we saw the Christian preachers were also standing on the road. So if we stand on the road and preach and sell our books what is the fault?

Interviewer: I put that. He said you are doing what the Christian... (break)

Prabhupāda: No. The government allowed them, the Christian people. The government is allowing us also. Then where is the fault?

Interviewer: The fault is...

Prabhupāda: That is your imagination, fault.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: So it goes on, (continues reading) "In Judaism we find the blowing of the shofar, or ram's horn, and in the orthodox synagogue there is separation of men and women. Differences of dress are expressed amongst orthodox Jews and amongst various Christian orders. Our own Pilgrim ancestors differed in dress form the popish gentry of their time. I have studied and tested the Hare Kṛṣṇa people and have not found them to be weird or insane, only different form the mainstream. Like any other evangelical or proselytizing religion, their converts could only become converts if they choose to believe. For example, no one can drag a person to a Baptist Church and brainwash him into taking God into his heart, he has to want to accept willingly. No one is ever held against their will by the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. I have never seen it, nor have my colleagues ever seen it. In examining the various members of this religion, I have not found one who appears to be brainwashed or dopey like. In fact their mental health and normality astounds me. If you cannot accept Kṛṣṇa, God, they will sympathize with you and hope that you will eventually find Him and will wish you well as you go on your way. There have been devotees who have left the movement and have said negative things about it, but the sour grapes syndrome is not unusual for dropouts anyway. I wonder how many West Point dropouts vilify the Army, or how many Seminary drop outs leave and disdain their religion? After a rational person spends time with the Hare Kṛṣṇa people and learns to understand them, he could never believe them to be guilty of the charges which have been made here in New York recently."

Prabhupāda: That's all right, positive.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we can do that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, many thousands and thousands of important Indians, very rich men there are. In London there are very rich Indians. They can form immediately a solid association. They should present that this Kṛṣṇa is our God. In every Indian home we observe Kṛṣṇa Janmāṣṭamī. Even though one does not follow Kṛṣṇa cult, still if he is Hindu he follows the Janmāṣṭamī. Inevitably, everywhere. So this Kṛṣṇa cult is genuine, Vedic, based on Bhagavad-gītā which was spoken long, long years ago before any religion, any religious literature in the world. The Buddha literature or the Christian literature and Jewish literature, they cannot be counted more than two thousand years. A little more than that. But this Kṛṣṇa cult is coming, it is coming from, I have already explained in the introduction, it is coming from four hundred millions of years ago. But even from historically, it is five thousand years. Beyond all religious literature in the world. We have to present this case in the court. And let it be discussed thorough (indistinct), and see our books, compare any religious books with our these books. Present all the opinions of big, big professors how traditional Indian culture is there.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) better, I was seeing that. And every page Kṛṣṇa. There is Kṛṣṇa. Every page, there is Kṛṣṇa. Similarly that happened in Germany. I told them. "It is very good that Hare Kṛṣṇa." Hare Kṛṣṇa. (laughing) We are known as Kṛṣṇas. They call us Kṛṣṇas. You put yourselves "Kṛṣṇians." They are Christians and we are Kṛṣṇians. And actually from Kṛṣṇian, the Christian has come. Yes. Kṛṣṇa, ah, Kristo, there is Greek word and Kristo, is broken spelling of Kṛṣṇa. In India we say one is, one name say is Kṛṣṇa, at least in Bengali we say Kṛṣṭa. Kṛṣṭa. This Kṛṣṭa word is come Kṛṣṇa. And from Kṛṣṭa, Christ has come. This is original root, Kṛṣṇa. So we have to fight, here is a chance for fighting, so why they're afraid?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we just have to work hard on getting this altogether.

Prabhupāda: You have to fight. Keeping our principles strictly. Yuddhyasva mām anusmara (BG 8.7). We should not be afraid to fight. And it is, there are Indians... It is not the Indians (indistinct). Now Indians and Americans should join for fighting on behalf of Kṛṣṇa. Then it will be successful. How they can say it is not genuine movement. Other so-called yogis swamis, they may be rascal but this is not the rascaldom.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa, in the dictionary it is said, that Hindu God but we are claiming, that Kṛṣṇian, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa conscious. Kṛṣṇa conscious means "Godder than the Hindus." When you say we are not Hindu that we are not restricted with the Hindi community. That is the meaning. Because Kṛṣṇa says, "I am for everyone." So why should we be restricted to the Hindi community. Kṛṣṇa says sarva yoniṣu, "In all forms of life, I am the seed giving father." Why he should be simply Hindu? This point should be stressed. Sarva yoni means eighty four million..., eighty, eighty, eight million four hundred thousands, all forms. Kṛṣṇa is for all of them. We therefore, why Kṛṣṇa should be restricted to the Hindu community? Hindus are included but Kṛṣṇa is not restricted to Hindus. Kṛṣṇa's picture, that Bal Gopal. He's embracing the calves. Kṛṣṇa does not embrace only the gopīs, He's embracing the calves also. That is Kṛṣṇa. He's equal to everyone. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Pāpa-yonayaḥ, so many low-grade forms of life, they're also His.... Devotees are part and parcel. Mamaivāṁśo jī... (BG 15.7). Quote this: Kṛṣṇa is not restricted to the Hindu. We say, "We are not Hindu," means we are not.... We embrace everyone. We are not restricted to the Hindus. The so-called Christians, so-called Mohammedans, they.... We embrace everyone, and actually we are doing that. Why should we simply be compact within the limitation of Hindus. That is not our purpose.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: The millions of liquor manufacturers, breweries, millions of gambling houses, so, cigarette factories, so theoretically if this movement is successful then whole civilization is finished. So they are now looking... Because these young men have taken seriously so they are threatened and they are making a strong party to fight with us. They cannot safely say that (indistinct) this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement they are (indistinct) a charge against my movement or me that I am kidnapping young men. That is their (indistinct). I am not kidnapping, I am not going to their house to kidnap. They are coming to us. (Hindi)

kṛṣṇot-kīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī
dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau priya-karau nirmatsarau pūjitau
śrī-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau...

The gosvāmīs, they are śrī-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau. Now prove! They are descendants, now prove: come forward. Śrī-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau. Simply sitting at home. And in Bengal there is Nityānanda-vaṁśa. What is Nityānanda-vaṁśa? Nityānanda went forward before Jagāi-Mādhāi and He was hurt. Blood came out. Where is that Nityānanda-vaṁśa? Fight between Jagāi-Mādhāi and Nityānanda. That is Nityānanda-vaṁśa, simply taking advantage of coming from Nityānanda-vaṁśa, "I have become guru, give me your money," and sit down. "Let me enjoy life with my wife and children." That kind of Nityānanda-vaṁśa will not help. Come forward to fight. This fighting is now here. You can show the newspaper clipping. (Hindi) big arrangement to fight this. First of all they thought that so many swamis and yogis come, all rascals, they stay for some time and go away. Even Vivekananda. (laughter) So this is not a bogus movement, it is taking stand. So now they are threatened and they are combining together especially the Christian... (Hindi) But in each heading there is Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: I will stay if you hold immediately meeting in this temple. We have got enough space here. First of all you see some leading gosvāmī, and then you chalk out how to fight. All the (indistinct). Now it is question of Kṛṣṇa cult, it is not only Gauḍīya. So take gosvāmīs, some of you and meet all the leaders and hold a meeting, immediately... And explain the whole situation. Let us combine and those who are educated, they should go. We shall arrange for their all expenditure. It doesn't matter. Fight. This is a genuine cult. If you discriminate, that is discrimination against religion, cult. We are accepting everyone but it is a genuine cult. You also Christian, you accept anyone, why you say it is not genuine? That we have to prove. There the Hindus and Indians who are there, they will also join. So immediately hold a meeting. It is very serious situation. (Hindi) This is genuine movement. Why the American government should be discriminating against a genuine religious sect, Kṛṣṇa? Make this company. Prasāda, give him prasāda. Very serious (Hindi) Are you...? Go with him.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Jagadīśa: That's what the Christians say. The Christians say.

Prabhupāda: So what is the symptom?

Hari-śauri: Well, they... 'Cause he, man, has reason and logic.

Prabhupāda: That means reason and logic is soul. That is their idea. That is not soul. Intelligence, when I say, "You have got intelligence," it does not mean you are intelligence. "You have got intelligence," we say like that. We never say, "You are intelligence." So intelligence is not soul. The rascals, they do not know. Mistake. Nobody says, "You are intelligence." They say, "You are intelligent."

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Religion you may have. Religion means to try to understand God. Any religion—you take Christian religion or Hindu religion or Mohammedan religion—there is little attempt to understand God. So any religion which gives you knowledge of God and you understand what is relation with God, that is perfect religion. We have no quarrel.

Dr. Kneupper: Do you think if all men, let's say, all the religions could try to come together...

Prabhupāda: Religion means to understand God and to follow God's order. That is religion. Just like government and government law. So if the citizen understands what is the law of the government and abides by it, then he's a good citizen. Similarly, any person who understands God and abides by the order of God, then he is religious. Why do you stand? You may be Christian; I may be Hindu; he may be Mohammedan. It doesn't matter. Everyone should understand God and the relationship with God and act accordingly. Then it is perfect religion. And if there is no conception of God, no carrying out order of the God, that is not religion. That is cheating. But generally they do not accept God—still, he is stamping himself that "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian." He has no idea what is God, how to abide by His order, and they are fighting that "I am Christian and you are Hindu. Therefore we must fight." This is going on. Nobody understands what is God. Pseudo religion. Practically there is no religion. If there is no government—you make your law; I make my law—then how there will be peace? That is the position. They do not understand what is God, and "I am Christian" or "Hindu" or "Mohammedan, so let us fight." That's all.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kneupper: Does it appear also in, let's say, Christianity, in Muslim, Mohammedanism?

Prabhupāda: No, no, I say that every religion, there is an attempt to understand God. Why do they not understand God, what is God? Then everything will be solved. But they are decrying, "There is no God. God is dead," and "There is no need of God, now we have got science." In every step they are trying to kill God. That's all.

Dr. Kneupper: That's true of certain people, but there are also many...

Prabhupāda: Majority, they do not understand what is God.

Dr. Kneupper: There are many sincere seekers, I think, in Christians and Moslems. At least I have met.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That must be. There must be some sincere men. That can be admitted. But still the sincere man also does not understand clearly what is the meaning of God. "I believe in God." "I believe in God," they say. Just like in America they say, "We trust in God." But what is God, he does not know. So what is the meaning of this, "I trust in God"? That is a phobia.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: God is not Hindu God, Muslim God, Christian. God is God. Now, when I say, "Here is God. His name is Kṛṣṇa. His father's name is Nanda Mahārāja," now they will laugh.

Dr. Kneupper: Do you think if a person is to be a real believer in God he has to also worship Kṛṣṇa or speak of Him?

Prabhupāda: No, God means Kṛṣṇa. He has to understand it. Therefore so many books. God has many names, millions, of which Kṛṣṇa name is the most important. Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. Then you have to understand the science of God. How Kṛṣṇa is God, that you have to understand. But for that reason we are publishing so many books. We have already published eighty-four books, simply in English language. And they are being translated in German, French, Portuguese, then Spanish, Dutch, Swedish, Italian, Chinese, Japanese, Hindi, Bengali, like that.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That depends on your philosophy. You are reading so many books. How do you select, "This is nice." That depends on your philosophy. But if you accept it that it is spoken by God, then there is no argument. But why should you accept it, spoken by God? You read it, whether how much logical, how much full of knowledge. Then you can say. The same thing. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "Within this body there is the soul, and because the soul is there, therefore body is changing." So anyone can... Any layman can understand. Things are there like that. So there is no difficulty. If we take, "Oh, this description, the transmigration of the soul-Hindu idea." Why Hindu idea? It is science. As soon as we consider it "Hindu," then it becomes sectarian. Then you will say, "I have got my Christian idea. Why shall I take your Hindu idea?"

Dr. Kneupper: What is your view towards Christianity?

Prabhupāda: Christianity is to some extent, but you have got different edition of Christianity. So far I know, as soon as they say, "Christian," immediately the question is, "To which Christian party you belong?" What is that?

Hari-śauri: Christians, yeah, Protestants, Methodists, Catholics...

Prabhupāda: So which is correct Christianity we do not know. But we have no such thing. There is no party. Bhagavad-gītā, there cannot be any party. If anyone makes any party, he is immediately cancelled. But at least we believe in the Ten Commandments. Now, Lord Jesus Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." But why all the Christians are simply busy in killing? That is my first question.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: 99%, they are maintaining all big, big slaughterhouse, all Christians. And Lord Jesus Christ ordered, "Thou shall not kill," but they are killing. What kind of Christian he is? Disobedience to the order of Christ? And still he is Christian? These things are going on. Then again party, this ism, that ism, that ism. First of all, all of them are disobeying the Ten Commandments, and then there are parties. So which one you'll accept?

Dr. Kneupper: There's no such diversity of interpretation of the Bhagavad-gītā?

Prabhupāda: No, no, apart from Bhagavad-gītā, I am talking of Christianity. How you can disobey the orders of Christ and you become Christian at the same time?

Dr. Kneupper: There's always people falling short of what their...

Prabhupāda: That's it. That means they are all useless. If you are Christian, how you can defy the order of Christ? You will disobey the orders of Christ; still you are Christian? Just like in India they are all denying the Vedic culture, and still they are Hindu? All these rascals. So therefore, I say, the whole world is full of rascals. If the Christians accept this word, that Lord says, "Thou shall not kill." Why shall we kill? Welcome. Never mind whether Christian or Hindu. Welcome. Similarly, in India, if they accept Bhagavad-gītā, welcome. But everyone is rascal, mūḍha. Nobody cares for God, nobody cares for God's messenger. All rascals. This is the position. They are creating God. They are creating religion. They are creating sect. This is going on.

Room Conversation -- November 14, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He will suggest hundreds of things, but he cannot protest personally. That is not... What is the court case? That we have to place before the court that "This is genuine cultural or religious movement." We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What Kṛṣṇa has said, we are trying to spread. This is genuine, the simple thing. We have not manufactured anything, "transcendental meditation" or like that. That is not our business. We are presenting simply what is stated there in the Bhagavad-gītā. If somebody said that "Bible is not genuine," will it be accepted? Thousands and thousands are claiming to be Christian on the basis of... Similarly millions and millions of people in India, they know Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā. How it is not genuine? That we have to prove, that's all. It's not that... Repeatedly we are speaking that what Kṛṣṇa said, that is perfect. That's all. This is our business. Who will object to that? You could not present to the governor that Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... Anyone can say, "Yes, it is based on Bhagavad-gītā. It is genuine." Any Indian can say. You have to take that to present in the court. If from official, it is... How the official can deny it? It is genuine. Now, about this sewer line, after all... (end)

Room Conversation -- November 15, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Don't say church.

Devotee: OK. But the thing is if... The first thing that it can be rezoned for is a church and a temple.

Prabhupāda: There is no need of rezoning because we are Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa community. So wherever we live we worship Kṛṣṇa. It is not a public show, it is our own private worshiping Deity. I can keep Deity in my home. Just like Christian Deity, Mary, Jesus Christ, in the room. There is no objection.

Devotee: I don't think there's any objection to that but according to Guṇagrahi (indistinct-mic noise) ...problem, San Diego, like the government there doesn't approve too much of them and each time they try to buy a nice piece of land, you know, somehow...

Prabhupāda: That's why I say, "Don't call it temple."

Devotee: Don't call it temple.

Prabhupāda: No, community project.

Devotee: Community project.

Prabhupāda: Project. That's all.

Room Conversation -- November 24, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Wherefrom this Christo came. The Greek word. And the Greek got from India, Kṛṣṇa. This is the history. Christian means Krishnian, godly. And Christo, so far I know, the Greek meaning is "decorated," "love." That indicates to Kṛṣṇa. If there is some scholar he can find out that Christian means Krishnian originally. (reads:) "How the soul transmigrates? The process is very subtle. The spirit soul is invisible to our material eye. It is atomic in size. After the destruction of the gross body, which is made up of the senses, blood, bone, fat, and so forth, the subtle body of mind, intelligence, and ego goes on working. So at the time of death this subtle body carries the small spirit soul to another gross body. The process is just like air carrying a fragrance. Nobody can see where this rose fragrance is coming from, but we know that it is being carried by the air. You cannot see how, but it is being done. Similarly, the process of transmigration of the soul is very subtle. According to the conditions of the mind at the time of death the minute spirit soul enters in the womb of particular mother through the semina of the father. And when the soul develops a particular type of body given by the mother it may be a human being, it may be cat, a dog, or anything." So it is brainwash? Hm?

Devotee (1): But if it was heard by them, they would accept it but because there are so many cheaters and rascals, they're so afraid of all of it because there's been so much cheating and different philosophies and gurus and false gurus and that.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Now... Ayi. So for fix up, you should take paper. Who is in charge of which subject, I want to know. (Hindi) That Prem Yogi can teach you very nice. And you and Prem Yogi can teach these boys Sanskrit.

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Let them come here, live peacefully, eat sumptuously, get all the other necessities of life and become Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is our... And we have no discrimination, Hindu, Muslim, Christian. No. We have got many Christians, many Jews, many Hindus, many Muslims, many Africans. They are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Guest (5): Even in India, Muslims are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Well, Muslim India or same India, those who are intelligent, they are taking.

Guest (5): In this country also they have taken?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Some of the Pakistanis, they have taken. Of course, he is living in foreign country. One Dr. Ramjan (?), he is the professor in Portland. He is my disciple. I have given him the name, Rāmarañjana from Ramjan.

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Devotee: In Hyderabad there is Muslim. He is a life member.

Prabhupāda: No, that, life member... God consciousness... Who will deny God? It is a science. So we are teaching the science, not the bigotry, "my God, your God." God is one. Gold is gold. Gold does not become Hindu gold, Muslim gold, or Christian gold. Anywhere gold is available, it is gold. That is our definition. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ. That is highest, topmost type of religion, yato bhaktir adhokṣaje, where one can learn how to love God, that's all. That is wanted. We are teaching that. There is no question of "this God, that God." God is one. You just practice how to love Him. Then your religion is first-class.

Guest (5): But why give names to Him? Why give names to that God?

Prabhupāda: No name. When I say, yato bhaktir adhokṣaje, this is not name. Adhokṣaja means "who is beyond your sense perception."

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (4): Swamiji, what about missionaries who are working in India who are coming from abroad and they are actually exploiting. If they put a charge against our institution, well, we can definitely say that we are motivating the intellect to take into the higher stage of life. Here the missionaries who come, they go in the backward areas and those who are not learned, those who are practically uneducated... I mean, their mission is to convert them in Christianity. You see, that charge is rather more grave than the particular one which they have leveled against us. You see, we can put that argument, isn't it? How many Hindus are converted into Christianity. We are not converting them, we are just...

Prabhupāda: Our case is not that we are going to convert one Hindu to Christian, or Christian to Hindu. There is no meaning. Our is, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Even if you are Hindu, even you are Muslim, you are Christian, kick it out. That is our movement. We do not advocate that "You are Christian, you become Hindu." Or "You are Hindu, you become..." They are taking like that. But our movement is not that.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Our movement is, either you are Hindu, either you are Muslim, either you are Christian, you kick out all this. Sarva-dharmān parityajya. Simply you become surrendered to Kṛṣṇa or God. This is our... And anyone who can do that, he is first-class religious. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Adhokṣaja, God's name is Adhokṣaja. You cannot see Him beyond your material perception. So if you are trained up to surrender to God, then you are religious. We do not say that you become Hindu or Muslim or Christian or this or that. We do not say so.

Dr. Patel: But all Christians, if they truly are... I mean Hindus, that Christ...

Prabhupāda: No, either he become Hindus. That does not mean the Hindus are perfect. We do not mean that. Even if he becomes Hindu, what is the benefit? No benefit.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: No. Even he becomes a Christian, there is no benefit.

Prabhupāda: I say any religious stamp, material, there is no benefit. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). You have to give up all these designations. And bhakti, love of Godhead, or service to God, begins when you are relieved from these designations. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). When becoming God conscious, you become completely purified, then your devotional life begins. And so long you are entangled with this designation, there is no question of devotional service. Either you Hindu or Muslim or Christian, it doesn't matter. So our business is not that, that we convert a Hindu to a Christian or a Christian to a Hindu. That is not our business. They are thinking, because we dress like that, with tilaka, with māla, they think Hindu. But it's not our business to convert the Christians to become Hindus, as all other missionaries, they are doing. They are trying to increasing the number of Christian or Hindus. So our... There is no question of increasing. It is very difficult to accept.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Bhāgavata-dharma.

Prabhupāda: No, this is real dharma. Bhāgavata-dharma is real, Bhagavān. Bhāgavata-dharma means in a relationship with Bhagavān. So if you do not know Bhagavān then what is this knowledge? That is the defect. All dharmas, there may be Christian dharma, Hindu dharma, this dharma, that dharma. Ask any one of them, "Do you know Bhagavān?" "Zero." "Nirākāra." Nirākāra means zero. When you come to the right point, zero. No substance. Therefore they have got this prayer, nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe. This is going on. Śūnyavādi and nirviśeṣa. Nirākāravādi. We say... There are so many points. We say that "the Supreme Father," the Christians say. So how the Supreme Father can be nirākāra? We have got experience, my father has ākāra. His father has got ākāra, his father has got ākāra. So if you go to the Supreme Father, now how He is nirākāra? I may not have seen my great grandfather but that does not mean he's nirākāra.

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: The movement's nearly one hundred centers are mostly urban monasteries from which members in accordance with Vaiṣṇava tradition perform evangelistic and proselytizing activities. The authenticity of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement has formerly been confirmed by numerous Hindu religious academic and cultural bodies both in India and U.S. Of the new religious movements which are prominent, most are allegedly based on either a Western religious tradition: the Children of God and Unification Church are Christian oriented; or an Eastern religious or philosophical tradition: Zen groups, yoga groups, Hare Kṛṣṇa, etc. Of the groups based either on Western or non-Western spiritual traditions, some are seen as not accurately representing that tradition upon which they are ostensibly based. For instance, several Christian church organizations assert that the Unification Church, the Moonies, is not a bona fide Christian organization. Others, such as the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, are accepted as legitimate, both by scholars and adherents of that tradition. As the public tends, however, to indiscriminately lump together whatever appears to be strange or out of the ordinary, the mass media refers to all such groups with the derogatory term, 'cult.' All questions of legitimacy aside, the parents of many members of such groups feel, for one reason or another, that their son or daughter has been brainwashed and they are under the 'mind control' of the cult.
Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Indian man: Yes. In Ahmedabad? Why not? There is no obstruction. The Christians have now opened up two centers. Arya-samaj has opened one. So there is no restriction. And these areas, like Ahmedabad or in some of the African countries where people have still no inclination or no knowledge of one particular kind of religion or particular thing, they are open to anything which is given to them.

Prabhupāda: There must be preacher, good preacher.

Indian man: Preacher of their language. But language (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Language can be managed if there is good preacher.

Morning Walk -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He has recommended our case, that "This is the only institution who is making the Christian Hindu. Before this movement the Christian converted Hindus. Nobody could convert the Christian to become Hindu. And this is the only movement that is converting Christian to Hindu." So he is very much in favor of this movement, and it is understood that he talked with Indira Gandhi in telephone. So maybe that if that Hindu movement is increasing and in India the cow slaughter is going on, and it is against Hindu, (they) might have considered like that.

Dr. Patel: Pakistan has banned cow slaughter. Because they had done away by vengeance, all the cows. They wanted to spite the Hindus, kill the cows.

Hari-śauri: I don't think they kill cows in China either because its economic value is too great.

Prabhupāda: That means they are coming to the sense how cow is important. (pause) It is said that he wants to see me.

Morning Walk -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah, Chandra Swami, has strongly recommended that "This is the only movement which is converting Christian into Hindu." He is pleased on this account. He is not interested our Hare... He has said that "I am not very much interested in Hare Kṛṣṇa, but I am interested in this point." That is natural, that nobody could convert the Christian to Hindu, but this movement is doing that.

Yaśomatīnandana: That is indirectly accepting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact. We do not make any compromise. Vivekananda went there. He came back. He said, "What is the wrong in meat-eating?" He introduced meat-eating amongst his contemporary sannyāsīs. This is his vedānta-pracāra. So he is advertised that he preached Vedānta all over America, and everyone has become Vedantist. What is...? What kind of Vedantist? Now, he introduced meat-eating amongst the sannyāsīs, which was never in India, any... There are two sets of sannyāsīs, the Śaṅkara sampradāya and Vaiṣṇava sampradāya. But their ācāra is the same. They may differ in philosophy, but their ācāra is the same. Rather, the Śaṅkara sampradāya sannyāsī are more strict than the Vaiṣṇava sannyāsī. Śaṅkara sampradāya sannyāsī, they'll never occupy a seat, those who are strictly following. They'll sit down on the floor. Without any āsana. They lie down on the floor. They are so renounced. And what is this, that sannyāsī smoking and drinking? And ordinary sannyāsīs, they are drinking also tea, one ghara (?). I have seen it.

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is completely educational. Spiritual education. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). It is not religious sentiment. Some Arya-samajis told me in Durban, South Africa, that "Why you are bringing this Hindu idea?" And this is not your Hindu idea. Kṛṣṇa said kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. Does it mean that only Hindus, from boyhood they become youth, and the Musselman does not? What is this nonsense? People are so misguided they cannot understand this simple word, this spiritual education. They say Hindu idea. That only the Hindu boys grow to become young men. The Muslim, the Christian, they do not grow up. Just see how much in darkness they are and how much they require this education. How the world is in need of this spiritual education. And they cannot understand it. Just see how they are dull and rascal headed. Hindus grow only. Huh? Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam... (BG 2.13). Kṛṣṇa said from boyhood to yauvanam, it is Hindu idea. The Arya-samaji friend told me, why you bring this Hindu idea? How much dull they are just imagine.

Page Title:Christianity (Conv. 1976)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:17 of Aug, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=234, Let=0
No. of Quotes:234