Christianity (Conv. 1974)

Expressions researched:
"Catholic" |"Christian" |"Christian's" |"Christianity" |"Christianity's" |"Christians" |"Protestant"

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 5, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, either purify or... You come with us and you will be purified. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, rādhā-kṛṣṇa bolo saṅge calo, ei-mātra bhikhā cāi. We don't want anything from you. You, I shall give you eating. I shall give you everything. You simply come with me and chant. This is our propaganda. We don't say that "You do this, do that." We don't do anything. Simply come with us and chant.

Bali Mardana: Just like the Catholic church, in different places around the world they feed the people.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Bali Mardana: But we cannot only... If we not only feed them, but give them chanting and dancing...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bali Mardana: ...they will accept it as superior.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- January 5, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They are so good Christian that at the time of danger, they're all going away to Canada. Just see-afraid of death, even though they are preaching themselves, priest, they are also the same common man, afraid of death. And if we people keep to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are not afraid of death. For going from one place to another, that's all. Going home, nobody becomes afraid going back to home. He becomes pleased. (break) You avoid death, there is no death. Viṣaya.(?) If we simply practice this, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma... No more death. Finished death. This is a fact. (break) ...or do something for Kṛṣṇa. Don't waste time, single moment. Then your... No more death. Because this is deathless condition. And the changing of the body, that is momentary, that is all.

Morning Walk -- January 5, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They are so good Christian that at the time of danger, they're all going away to Canada. Just see-afraid of death, even though they are preaching themselves, priest, they are also the same common man, afraid of death. And if we people keep to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are not afraid of death. For going from one place to another, that's all. Going home, nobody becomes afraid going back to home. He becomes pleased. (break) You avoid death, there is no death. Viṣaya.(?) If we simply practice this, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma... No more death. Finished death. This is a fact. (break) ...or do something for Kṛṣṇa. Don't waste time, single moment. Then your... No more death. Because this is deathless condition. And the changing of the body, that is momentary, that is all.

Morning Walk -- January 7, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Bali Mardana: When I was in Hawaii I gave a lecture at one Catholic college, and the priest in charge, he was asking me if in our philosophy we believe that animals have a soul. He's so foolish...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bali Mardana: The Christians are so foolish, even though they have big learned positions, they do not understand that the animal also has a soul.

Prabhupāda: You told? In that meeting?

Bali Mardana: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: What did they say?

Bali Mardana: They could not deny. They could not say anything.

Prabhupāda: Yes, what is the difference that you say the animals...? How do you say? What is the symptoms of possessing soul? The symptoms of possessing soul is described in the Bhagavad-gītā: yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. The consciousness. The animals have no consciousness? How foolish they are!

Morning Walk -- January 15, 1974, Hawaii:

Bali Mardana: "There are many things, but I can, but you cannot, I have to tell you, but you cannot bear them now."

Prabhupāda: Yes, so that means he's first-class, but he comes to the second-class platform or third-class platform to teach the third-class, second-class person. He's first class. Son of God cannot be second-class or third-class. He must be first-class. But... Just like Lord Buddha. He's God Himself, but He said nothing about God because he knew that "These rascals, they will not be able to... Let them stop meat-eating, that's all. Let them become sinless first of all; then they will be able..." So his main preaching was ahiṁsā, non-violence, no meat-eating. But still, they violate that. Jesus Christ also preached, "Thou shall not kill," but these rascals, all violating. And still, they are proclaiming as Christian and Buddhist. No religion will, real religion, will allow this kind of violence, no religion. It is cheating religion. Dharmaḥ kaitavaḥ: Any religion committing unnecessary violence to the animals, (it is) third-class. It is not religion, it is cheating. Simply cheating.

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Satsvarūpa: When Darwin's theory was first being taught in America, there was opposition from the Christians, and there was a famous court trial called the Scopes case, and the Bible was used to, against this so-called scientific theory. But the Bible is so inadequate that they lost.

Prabhupāda: Yeah, Bible cannot be because it is itself unscientific.

Satsvarūpa: The lawyer proved that the Bible could not disprove the Darwin's theory.

Prabhupāda: Then why do they not reject Bible altogether?

Nitāi: Sentiment.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Why do they not reject? Why still? Of course, it is sentiment. They do not accept Bible. The so-called Christians, they do not accept Bible.

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, because their father, mother, neither they do know how to take care of the children, but they come to us. We should take care of them.

Dr. Patel: This is just like those Christian missions, we must...

Prabhupāda: Any one...

Dr. Patel: I think, I think we must do that. Then we will be able to propagate.

Prabhupāda: Not with that purpose. Here is a poor child. He comes automatically to dance. So we should take care of them.

Dr. Patel: Yes, I have thought of it long ago.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...voluntarily, to dance, to take prasādam. So why you should not take care of them? This is my point. We don't make distinction whether they are coming from Christian or Hindu or...

Dr. Patel: No, no, no, no, man is a man. I mean those Christians think that we are Hindus and they are Christian. We don't think because in Hinduism or in actually Vedic religion everyone is created one.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: I am in fact, When I go near...

Prabhupāda: Our, our, our mantra is sarve sukhino bhavantu.

Dr. Patel: That's right.

Prabhupāda: Sarve sukhina... Everyone be happy. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We want to see everyone to be happy. That's all.

Dr. Patel: I, but, this is naturally me, if I see, of course... Then naturally... The great Jesus Christ, great bhakta of God. (some other men talk in background) But Christians, they have, they are...

Prabhupāda: No, no. These, they may be low grade. They may be inferior, but if we are superior, we must act as superior.

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Your religion is extremely catholic.

Prabhupāda: Our catholic Kṛṣṇa consciousness—Kṛṣṇa says sarva-yoniṣu. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ: (BG 14.4) "Any form of life, that is, I am the seed-giving father."

Dr. Patel: That's right, sir.

Prabhupāda: And how lovingly they come to take little prasādam. I was thinking that...

Dr. Patel: I was noticing, myself, the same thing...

Prabhupāda: How lovingly they offer me obeisances, touch my feet, and a little fruit or little, whatever I give, they are satisfied. So they are so friendly because they are innocent. They do not know what is this Hindu, Christian. So we must take care of them.

Guest (1): Some of those childrens are Christians.

Prabhupāda: Never mind Christian, Hindu, Muslim. A Christian or a..., if we offer them nice food and nice dress, nobody will deny.

Dr. Patel: But these Hindus became Christians because they were offered nice food and dress by Christian missionaries.

Prabhupāda: No, our point is not that, just to bring them and proselytize them to Hinduism. No. Take prasādam, take dress, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, dance. That's all. I never said to all these European and American disciples that "You become a Hindu." I never said. Ask them. I never said.

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: I think that they must understand, sir, that Hinduism is a way of life and not a religion. Religion is a Vedic religion, which is common to Christianity. I would say that Jesus Christ has taught the Vedic religion to the Middle East and to the heathens and he was crucified because the heathens were not able to understand him properly. That is what my, I mean, convictions, strong conviction is that Jesus had actually preached Hinduism, I mean Vedic religion there.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he was...

Dr. Patel: And all religions are in fact Vedic.

Prabhupāda: He was educated of his spiritual life in India. Twelve years here. Twelve years he was. And he lived in Jagannātha temple.

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: There is a big community called Issans(?) and Issans are somewhere in between Tigris and that Doab(?), you know, Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. From there he migrated to the Palestine area and preached those fellows all the philosophy that he learned in India. That is... That man has said. So I consider Christianity is a part of..., one of the pañca, of Hindu... of the...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Christianity is Vaiṣṇavism.

Dr. Patel: Vaiṣṇavism? Absolutely Vaiṣṇavism.

Prabhupāda: Anyone who... Mohammedan is also Vaiṣṇavism.

Dr. Patel: Mohammedanism is not Vaiṣṇavism.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Caitanya Mahāprabhu had talk with the Pāṭhānas. He proved that "Your religion is Vaiṣṇavism."

Dr. Patel: Christianity is Vaiṣṇavism 100%.

Prabhupāda: Therefore in Caitanya-caritāmṛta there is. I have already explained that.

Dr. Patel: No, Christianity is 100% Vaiṣṇavism. I have studied Christianity very well.

Prabhupāda: Not hundred percent, but...

Dr. Patel: More or less.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Guest (3): But Swamiji, sexual intercourse after marriage is against law of Manu?

Prabhupāda: No, that is also... There is law. You cannot have sexual intercourse with wife as you like, no. That is also illicit sex. Then... When the woman is in menstrual period, after five days, you can have once. As soon as she is pregnant, no more sexual intercourse. This is human being. Not that like animal. Animals also, they have got restrictions. You see? The lions, they have sexual intercourse once in life. Once in life. Brahmacārī. You see? So as soon as you violate the laws, then you are animal. Because law is meant for man. Just like "Keep to the right" and "left" in the road. It is meant for human being, not for the dogs. Dog, if he keeps right or left, it is not under law. But if you keep your car instead of left to the right, then you are criminal. (pause) So which way we have to go?... Human life begins when he understands what is dharma. That is human life, beginning. Aushikha (?) (Hindi) Jaiye aur Hindu religion hai, Muslim religion hai, Christian religion hai, Buddhist religion hai, Jewish religion hai. The religion must be there. But when we give up this religious process, then there is no more human life; it is animal life. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah, adveṣṭā. It is not, "I am Hindu. Why shall I preach amongst the Christian?" The dveṣṭā.

Dr. Patel: Adveṣṭā sarva-bhūtānām.

Prabhupāda: But one has to become adveṣṭā. This is adveṣṭā.

Dr. Patel: Maitraḥ karuṇa eva ca, nirmamo nirahaṅkāraḥ sama-duḥkha-sukhaḥ kṣamī (BG 12.13).

Prabhupāda: Now, some of these Māyāvādī sannyāsīs accuse me that "Bhaktivedanta Swami is spoiling our Hindu religion." Means dveṣṭā. They do not like Christians. They do not like Mohammedans. But I am accepting Mohammedans, Christian, any damn rascal: "Come on. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa."

Mr. Sar: And be a brāhmaṇa.

Prabhupāda: This is adveṣṭā. (break) ...envious of Christian.

Morning Walk -- February 20, 1974, Bombay:

Yaśomatīnandana: Actually, this is so true, Prabhupāda, because even in the western world, they are Christians. They may be fallen Christians, but they don't think they are Christ. They may be fallen. They may not follow the principles...

Prabhupāda: They say "Christ is God."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they also make mistakes.

Prabhupāda: They also make that mistake.

Yaśomatīnandana: No, they are mistaken. That is, they understand their position is servant, but...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This, this philosophy, that there's allegory, that Kṛṣṇa never danced with gopīs, that...

Prabhupāda: That is...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...directly leads to Māyāvādī philosophy.

Prabhupāda: That is Māyāvādī.

Morning Walk -- February 20, 1974, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Actually the Māyāvādī philosophy was started with Vivekananda. Because I don't find in the Christian faith that they are Māyāvādīs. Their belief is service to God. Of course, they are somewhat Māyāvādīs. But this real strong Māyāvādī was brought from East with Buddhism and Vivekananda's philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When I was studying, you know, books...

Prabhupāda: Nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādī.

Yaśomatīnandana: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda! (Prabhupāda chuckles)

Prabhupāda: All śūnyavādīs, Māyāvādīs, yes. Impersonalists.

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: No, but, I mean, it is all... It must fall. There is no culture. This is a total degeneration of the humanity at large.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They must suffer. And they're suffering. Still, they're blind.

Dr. Patel: So-called followers of Christianity actually killing Christ every day.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Why do you take Christianity? Everyone. Everyone.

Dr. Patel: No, but they are majority. They...

Prabhupāda: Everyone. Your Hindus also.

Dr. Patel: We have degenerated because we have been ruled by foreigners for so many years. But these fellows, being so free in thinking and doing things, they...

Prabhupāda: You see. Following of religious principle does not depend on foreign rule or home rule.

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Pañcadraviḍa: We're starting at nine.

Prabhupāda: Nine.

Pañcadraviḍa: Prasādam is being served at eight.

Prabhupāda: Oh. This Christian land is not available?

Devotee: There's no reliable information on it.

Prabhupāda: You can get from that gentleman... (end)

Morning Walk -- March 18, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Suppose you get a diamond body. Just like glowworm. Glowworm, it has a glowing body. That's all. But the glowing substance is different from the soul. Owner of the body is different. What he's doing? (break) ...came other day, morning?

Guest: (indistinct) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...have purchase this land for him for preaching Christian Bible. So he, maybe he was getting some salary on this land in this way. He gave up Gauḍīya Maṭha association and he became Christian. So I know that this land belonged to him. His wife was there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Allahabad.

Prabhupāda: Maybe at Allahabad. He's the proprietor. He was Mr. Cakravarti. (end)

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Bhava-bhūti: Christianity was taught to the publicans and the beggars, but Kṛṣṇa taught originally bhakti-yoga to the kings.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they were cultured.

Dr. Patel: According to the Upaniṣads, you know, actually the brahma-vidyā was with the kṣatriyas. And how could a brāhmaṇa boy come to kṣatriya to learn it. "But still, my boys, you have come and I will teach you." That is what we have seen in one of the...

Prabhupāda: (break) ...there is no kṣatriya, no brāhmaṇa.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...prasannātmā. Brahma-bhūta. That is called brahma-bhūta stage. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. This happiness and distress is the cause of śocati and kāṅkṣati. Kāṅkṣati means desiring to have something. This is distress. And lamenting for something, that is also distress. Actually, this is the material position. When we haven't got the things, we desire it. That is also distress. And when it is lost, that is also distress. But by illusion, they take it. When they get it, they think that it is happiness. This is māyā. Actually, to get the things, he has to undergo so much hard... A man is given credit... Suppose he was a poor man. He has now become multi-millionaire. He is given credit. But he does not see that he has simply passed through distress. But he... By illusion, he's thinking that he's happy. He's also thinking, and others also thinking, that "He has become happy." But actually it is distress. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (chants japa) (break) ...people become religious not for attaining the transcendental stage, but for material benefit, dharma, the artha. Artha means material opulence, that. They... These four things: dharma artha kāma mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90). And why they want artha? To satisfy their senses. Dharma artha kāma... And when they're again baffled, they want mukti, to become one with the Supreme. These are the four different tastes of the material. All, all of them are baffling and illusory. The so-called religiosity with a view to get some material profit... That comes everywhere. Just (as) in Christianity, the religion means, "O God, give us our daily bread." Material profit, similarly, in anywhere, they go for material benefit.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Demons. You'll see the Mohammedans, they worship the tomb. And Christian also, they worship the tomb. They offer wreath on the tomb. So tamasic. What is there in the tomb? But because they're tamasic, they're worshiping like that. And this, this so-called incarnation worship is also tamasic. By tamasic, in darkness they accept somebody as incarnation, and they worship. This is tamasic.

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: If someone said to us that "You are worshiping samādhi," what is the answer?

Prabhupāda: Samādhi, we are offering respect to the ācāryas. Yes. Not that we are simply worshiping samādhi. We are worshiping Kṛṣṇa also, side by side. It is not that... Then samādhi worship is finished. That is ācārya. Ācārya is, although worshiped as the Supreme Lord, but the Lord is also worshiped. And these Māyāvādīs, they give up the worship of Lord. So therefore they are Māyāvādīs. In Māyāvādī temple you'll find the picture of the guru and not the picture of Kṛṣṇa. I have seen in Surat, one temple of "Rāma." There is no Rāma. Guru is Rāma. That's all. Guru brahma, (Hindi) (break) ...caittya-guru, because he has merged into the existence of Lord, he has become Lord.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is not religion. Of course it is religion. But the religion, as it is misunderstood in European countries that religion is a kind of faith, but it is not like that. It is science. It is fact. Religion, you have got some faith. That may not be right. It may be wrong. Just like the Christian religion, they have got faith in this way, that animal has no soul. Do you know that?

Italian Man (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: That's not a fact. Do you agree or not?

Italian Man (1): I do.

Prabhupāda: Animal also has soul.

Morning Walk -- April 13, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: All the leaders.

piśācī paile yena mati-cchana haya

māyār grasta jīvera se dāsa upajaya

(break) ...must have undergone severe austerities and penances and developed his spiritual consciousness. Then he can be priest. Not any man with a sacred thread and ganta, belling, becomes a priest. (break) ...priestly class, all rotten class. In Christian world also—drunkards, nonsense, woman-hunters, and they are priests. So also in India. Any man with a two paisa worth sacred thread, he becomes a brāhmaṇa and priest. How the people will be guided? The priest... The exact Sanskrit name is purohita, who can actually...

Indian Man (1): Puru bhagata.

Prabhupāda: No, not puru bhag. Pura, yes, purabhaga, for welfare. By his advice... Just like Gargamuni is called for the advice, future of the child.

Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Well, people, people have become godless everywhere. It doesn't matter whether he is a Christian or Muhammadan or Hindu. That is a general disease. So actually, everyone is concerned now with material comforts. But these material comforts mean wine and women, that's all. Substance of material comforts. So that they have enjoyed enough. The facility of enjoying woman and getting money, there is no limit. There is no limit. Anyone, the money is thrown in the street. You can simply collect. And similarly, women are available. So actually, they do not get any happiness by these material elements. They are seeking after something, that's a fact.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1974, Hyderabad:

Mahāṁsa: Pious people, they see that actually they are not giving any spiritual benefit by converting them into Christianity. So they are very against this. They want some original Vedic school, Gurukula schools.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is, we have done already. Satsvarūpa has got practical experience. He can give you advice. He started this Gurukula. Practically this Gurukula I suggested, but he began. Yes. So you can take practical advice from him.

Mahāṁsa: I don't think we can start building until we finish this temple.

Prabhupāda: No, you can start in a cottage.

Mahāṁsa: Yes, small way.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: "But we are also preaching." Mohammedans will say, "We preaching. We take also sword sometimes. If he does not believe in God, we cut his throat." The Christian missionaries, they will also say that "We are also going on all over the world. We have made so many big church."

Pañcadraviḍa: We have also got our work, and we show them...

Prabhupāda: No, no. How do you say that you are better than him? If they are also doing, it may be difference of degrees, but we are also doing the same thing.

Pañcadraviḍa: If a person is having love of God, though, then his love is not simply confined to his own work. You say you are having love of God; we are also spreading this movement all over the world. So God is one...

Prabhupāda: "No, no, we are also preaching Christianity all over the world. Our number of Christians is higher than your number of devotees. Our preaching work is better than yours."

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Pañcadraviḍa: We ourselves are coming from Christian country, and we see that the entire society is so-called Christian, but...

Prabhupāda: Do you mean to say entire society is after you?

Pañcadraviḍa: Pardon me?

Prabhupāda: Can you prove that the entire society is after you only?

Pañcadraviḍa: We have got our society, this International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness.

Prabhupāda: "That's all right, we have got our society. But we are also preaching, and we have got many countries, we have got devotees, Christians. Number of Christian is greater than your number of Vaiṣṇava devotees."

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That is already settled. We are also serving. We are preaching Christianity.

Pañcadraviḍa: So then the work we are doing, God is one, we are all serving God, then there should be no objection to assisting us in propagating this love of God all over the world. You are already saying...

Prabhupāda: No, what is that love of God? That is already answered, that "We have also love of God."

Pañcadraviḍa: If you love someone, what are you doing? What is the aspect of your personal life?

Prabhupāda: "No, what we are not doing? What you are doing?"

Pañcadraviḍa: Our engagement is twenty-four hours.

Prabhupāda: "That may be. One may be engaged twenty-four hours or may be engaged for eight hours. That does not mean, you cannot say that I have no love for God."

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Akṣayānanda: You may be a very good example, but we see most of the Christians do not even follow the teachings. For example...

Prabhupāda: Here you have come to the real point. Here he has come to the point. That is the point. If you love God, then why you disobey His order? That means you do not love God. That is the real point. (break) ...is that you love God for getting something from Him. But we do not love God for getting something. This is another point. So the first point is this. This is very important point, that if you love God, why you are becoming disobedient to the orders of God? That is the most important point.

Pañcadraviḍa: But if the man says, "I am Muslim; how you can say I am disobedient to the laws of God? I am following my own religion?"

Prabhupāda: No, no, we shall come to the Muslims next. First of all let us talk with the Christians.

Satsvarūpa: We are always arguing with them. They say they are following. They are allowed to kill animals.

Pañcadraviḍa: "I am accepting Christ. Therefore I am saved. I am following closely Christianity."

Prabhupāda: No, no. If you love God, then why you are disobeying His order. That is my charge, first thing. God says, "Thou shalt not kill," but why you are killing? This is the charge I give to the Christians.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Oh, therefore I am a better Christian, better than you. Love... Therefore the Bhāgavata is perfect. Bhāgavata says that... Bhagavad-gītā says... Kṛṣṇa says that patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). So we are obeying Kṛṣṇa. We offer patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ. And we eat the remains of the foodstuff. Therefore we love. That is the proof. But you are not loving Jesus Christ because you are disobeying the order.

Pañcadraviḍa: How disobeying if the person says, "I am vegetarian. I do not kill. I am a Christian, but I am vegetarian, I do not kill animals?"

Prabhupāda: Then you are all right. But they... Who put forward the argument that "You are also killing vegetable?" Then how can kill vegetable?

Nitai: In Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa... Just as you quoted.

Prabhupāda: The thing is that we must eat something. And vegetables also have got life. The nature's way is that one living entity is eating another living entity. It may be animal or it may be vegetable. The question is the obedience to the order of God. So when Jesus Christ says that "Thou shalt not kill," it means bigger animals. Killing is applied, from dictionary, if I kill a man, if I kill an animal, then this word is used. So he meant like that. And that is very reasonable.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Pañcadraviḍa: When we run into those people... Sometimes we run into Muslims, Jains, Christians, and usually what we do is we approach them on the basis of our welfare work. Because we have got our work where we are feeding persons in Māyāpur, we are doing different..., opening schools. So we approach them that God is also one. There is one God and we are doing work for bringing all the people to God. In Māyāpur we are feeding so many Muslims every day.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is good preaching. But when there is argument, when somebody says, you should be prepared to argue with them. It stopped? We shall go another round?

Akṣayānanda: I think it has stopped.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Pañcadraviḍa: (break) ...dressed in shiny saffron. He is dressed in black. He looked like nescience and you look like the sunshine, standing next to him. He is wearing all this black with a little bit of red trimming on it, looked like nightime. (break) ...I met a Christian, and he said "You have got your guru and you are following him. He teaches you by his example. We have got our pope. He is our example of what Christianity is. He is the head of Christian order, and he himself is eating meat. Now how you can say...?"

Prabhupāda: Then how he can be pope?

Pañcadraviḍa: "But how you can say he is not the best Christian? He is the head of all the Christians."

Prabhupāda: But that means you are foolish and pope is also foolish. If he does not follow the orders of Jesus Christ, then how he becomes a pope? Therefore you are foolish. You have elected some foolish, another foolish man as your pope. That should be the right answer, that "If he does not follow Christ, how he becomes pope?"

Pañcadraviḍa: He is not killing.

Prabhupāda: Then why he is appointed as head? He must order. Otherwise if you are not following pope, then you are not Christian. He does not kill, then you should not kill. And why does he not order?

Pañcadraviḍa: He himself is eating meat. So it must be all right.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Pañcadraviḍa: But he is knowing what Christianity is the best. Therefore he is in charge. He says it is all right to eat meat.

Prabhupāda: No, no, how... Then first of all how you can elect him as in charge? Then you are fool.

Pañcadraviḍa: All the popes for hundreds of years have all eaten meat.

Prabhupāda: Then hundreds of years you are fool. Therefore you are intelligent? Does it mean?

Pañcadraviḍa: But when Jesus said, "Thou shalt not kill," he meant humans; he did not mean animals.

Prabhupāda: That is your interpretation.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Akṣayānanda: He himself, the Christian is saying that Jesus Christ is a hypocrite.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Akṣayānanda: So why is he following?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pañcadraviḍa: They still eat the sheep.

Satsvarūpa: The main thing they usually say is that kill means murder. That man at Bhaktivedanta Manor, that priest, he said the original Hebrew, the word means "murder." So this is an instruction to mankind not to murder, but it is not... But they have other places in the scripture where they point out that the animal is allowed for man to eat. So they just were showing us their scriptures.

Prabhupāda: It is said, "It is murder."

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Satsvarūpa: That is what that priest said to you in Bhaktivedanta Manor.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, he may say. What was previously, we are not concerned. But you have left already this Jewish Old Testament. You have got New Testament. You are not Jewish. So why do you bring that Jewish for your defense? You have already rejected it.

Pañcadraviḍa: But they say we accept both Old and New Testament. The Christians do not say we only have New Testament. They say we accept the old and the new.

Prabhupāda: Then why you have changed?

Pañcadraviḍa: Because the Old Testament never mentions Christ, but the New Testament is all about Christ.

Prabhupāda: Then it is rejected. If you have changed the tenets of Old Testament, that means you have rejected.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Pañcadraviḍa: ...Christians, they were arguing with me they said, "God has given us the pig to eat."

Prabhupāda: It is said in the Bible?

Pañcadraviḍa: No.

Prabhupāda: Then where is this nonsense? How he can say? Actually, Christians cannot eat any meat because the word is "Thou shalt not kill." (break)

Pañcadraviḍa: Christ Himself was distributing fish, to the hungry, to the poor. He gave out so much fish.

Prabhupāda: That was not killing fish. That is my support.

Pañcadraviḍa: We do not kill the fish either. We simply purchase it in the supermarket.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Directly, fish, as soon as taken from the water, he dies. And Christ... Then how can you support Christ that if he has done killing business himself and he instructs others not to kill?

Akṣayānanda: Does that mean you are calling Jesus Christ a hypocrite?

Prabhupāda: Hypocrite.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: You want to support your sinful activities by proving Christ as hypocrite. This is your business. You are such a Christian. And your love for Christ is such. (break) ...that we have to follow the instruction of the superior. Even if he acts something against the instruction, you should not follow it. You have to follow his words. You cannot imitate his action. That is real obedience. You should... If he has done something against his instruction, you should know that might have been some particular occasion he has done it, but we are not concerned with that. We are concerned with his order. That is obedience. He has not ordered me to do this thing. So my duty is what he has ordered to me. That is my only duty. What he has done in particular occasion, that is not my duty to see. Just like there is a Bengali verse,

yadyapi nityānanda sūri bari jaya

tathāpi sei amara nityānanda rāya

That sūri bari means wine shop where wine is distilled and sold. That is called sūri bari. And those who are wine sellers, they are called sūri. So I see that Nityānanda is going to a wine shop. So if I say, "Oh, Nityānanda is now spoiled. He is going to wine shop." No. We should not see that. We should know Nityānanda is pure. If he is going to sūri bari, wine shop, he has some business. But because he is going to the sūri bari he is not polluted.

Interview with Minister -- April 26, 1974, Tirupati:

Prabhupāda: They spend so much money for spreading Christianity in this country. What we are spending in the foreign countries?

Minister: The last time in our state, in this (indistinct), sent thirteen (?) lakhs in America to provide one temples, Veṅkaṭeśvara temple and (Hindi) Vighneśvara temple there.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Minister: In America.

Prabhupāda: America is a big place, three thousand miles, square miles. So I don't think any temple has been erected in New York.

Minister: No, it is proposed to.

Prabhupāda: Temple... Just like these Christian missionaries, they constructed so many churches. But those churches are now being closed. In London, I have got specific knowledge, hundreds of churches are no more being used as church. Some of them are being used as go-down. And some of the churches have been purchased by other religious sect. We have purchased one church in Los Angeles. So opening temple is good but who will maintain the spirit of temple worship?

Minister: That is by (Hindi).

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Therefore there must be side by side propaganda who can maintain the temples.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...Vaiṣṇava kavi has sung,

viṣaya chāriyā, se rase mājīyā,

mukhe bala hari hari

Unless you are free from the material desires, you cannot enjoy what is the celestial or spiritual bliss in chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. If one has got material desires, he cannot enjoy.

viṣaya chāriyā, se rase mājīyā,

mukhe bala hari hari

(break) ...can see here United Nation actually. Here is Britisher, here is American, here is African, here is Indian, here is Hindu, Canadian, Hindu, Muslim, Christian-all. This is United Nation. Just let them see practically what is United Nation. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra—all combined in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why do they not see? The so-called unity, brotherhood, why do they not see the reality?

Dr. Patel: United Nations were created...

Prabhupāda: No, no, not only United Nation, united in everything, "universal brotherhood," whatever you call-here is the example.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Patel: These Christians, during the Christmas, they buy a turkey one month before...

Prabhupāda: But that is not the injunction of Christ. They have made it.

Dr. Patel: No, no. That cannot be injunction of a saint like that.

Prabhupāda: No. He says, "Thou shall not kill," general order.

Dr. Patel: Christ was a great bhāgavata-bhakta.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Dr. Patel: He was a bhakta.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I said in many lectures that Christianism means Vaiṣṇavism. Where is the Christian?

Dr. Patel: Vaiṣṇavism. Totally Vaiṣṇavism.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Christianity it is really Vaiṣṇavism, but they, unfortunately... The church...

Prabhupāda: Mohamedanism... Mohammedanism...

Dr. Patel: The church has spoiled it.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Patel: Church has defaced it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everywhere.

Dr. Patel: It is the church, Christian church, which has defaced Christism.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Everywhere the followers make the whole thing bungled. Hm. Go on. (break)

Dr. Patel: (break) No, he saw them there.

Prabhupāda: No, he never went. Not that. Never went because all of them were thinking of Kṛṣṇa always. Therefore He never went.

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Just like in our society, we have got Americans, we have got Africans, Canadians, Indians, Christians, Jews, Mohammedans. But they are no longer Mohammedan, American, Christian or African. They are all servants of Kṛṣṇa. And that is Brahmān realization.

O'Grady: But that's giving it a name also.

Prabhupāda: Yes, name, must be there. But name... Just like you are feeling as Irishman, but your name may be different from another Irishman. How do you feel that "We are all Irishmen"? The name may be different. That doesn't matter. But the quality can be one. That is required. So when acquires that quality, Kṛṣṇaite quality, that in spite of different names... That is called so 'ham. One feels... The same example: In a nation, in a group, the names may be different, but because they feel nationally or religiously one, so that is one. Varieties. Varieties may be different, but the object being one, that is oneness.

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

O'Grady: I'm not saying it's possible to achieve it. I'm not even thinking it's possible. I'm not even saying that I think it's desirable to achieve happiness in this life, in this world. Because I have a feeling, an intuition that...

Prabhupāda: No, there is possibility—when the consciousness is purified. That we are preaching, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now, so long the consciousness is polluted, if I think that "I am Irishman," "I am Englishman," "I am Indian," "I am white," "I am black..."

O'Grady: Christian.

Prabhupāda: "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," they are all contaminated. There is no possibility of unity in the contact of this world.

O'Grady: That's very... I'll accept that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

O'Grady: But supposing you think that you are neither an Irishman nor an Englishman or American, nor Christian, nor a Jew nor anything...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is negation. Then you must say also what you are.

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Actually... Just like you are sitting in a different dress; I am sitting in a different dress. So the dress does not affect our actuality. We are human being. Similarly, the conception of body—"I am Irishman, I am Englishman, I am Hindu, I am Muslim, I am Christian,"—these are different dresses. So one has to become free from these designations.

O'Grady: Accepted.

Prabhupāda: So when one is free from the designations, then he becomes purified.

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Atreya Ṛṣi: ...there's a great different between that and what we know today as Christians. They're designations. We are not talking...

Prabhupāda: That is another point. The thing is that Christ came to preach the message of God. So therefore, to become actually Christ conscious means God conscious.

O'Grady: God conscious, exactly. And to become God conscious means...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa conscious.

O'Grady: To become self conscious.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Historic.

Dhanañjaya: Not historical, more philosophical. And he writes many papers for the Catholic Church, for the Vatican.

Prabhupāda: I was also student of philosophy in 1916 to 20 under professor Dr. W.S. Urquhart in Calcutta, Scottish Churches' College. He was my professor. Later on, he became vice chancellor, very big philosopher. We read Dr. Stephens Metaphysics. What is your special subject for study?

Richard Webster: Well, it's rather difficult to say. I suppose medieval philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Medieval.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Richard Webster: Well, may I ask a question? I find in medieval European philosophy two different attitudes and..., which I find difficult to reconcile perfectly. That is to say the earlier Christians, up to the thirteenth Century, I suppose, were practically only thinking about God, nothing else but God so that nature or the human being, or any... everything else, tended to disappear altogether as also in some Indian philosophy, I think. And then, later on, with more modern science and so on you've got a different attitude in the Christians themselves, that is to say an attitude of acceptance towards subordinate things so that they became independent and finally, of course, broke away altogether so that nowadays we have science without God at all. But there was a sort of period in the late middle ages when St. Thomas Aquinas, who stopped thinking about God, only about God, and gave his attention to science, so they say. Well, there was a sort of conflict there. I don't quite know what to say about it whether I'm on one side or the other. That is to say if I were to (indistinct) the earlier Christian or (indistinct) There was Aquinas, for instance, who was a saint, but he would pray into the world, if you like. I wondered whether you would disapprove of that or...

Prabhupāda: Yes, these different types of philosophers are always there, not only in the medieval age, in the previously also. It is said, na cāsāv ṛṣir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. "A philosopher is not a philosopher if he does not present a different view." (laughter) This is stated in the Bhāgavata. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnaḥ (?). Tarka, by argument, logic, you cannot come to the right conclusion because you may be a good logician and then you meet another logician who is better than you. So his arguments may be stronger than your argument. Therefore, simply by arguments or logical premises, you cannot approach the Absolute Truth.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Richard Webster: And Christians, how do you present this? Suppose if someone was a Christian.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Christian, if you take... Just like Lord Jesus Christ is a bona fide teacher, and he has given his teaching, his commandments. If you follow those commandments, then you are bona fide student. But if you don't follow then you are not bona fide.

Richard Webster: And if you try to follow but fail or if you...

Prabhupāda: No, you must follow. You cannot fail. Just like Lord Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." You must follow that. If you do not follow, then you are not Christian. It is not the question of that you could not follow or you are weak to follow. You must follow.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Richard Webster: But the Christians have a thing about forgiveness of...

Prabhupāda: Whatever is there...

Richard Webster: Within the Christian religion there is a strong emphasis on possible failure and forgiveness.

Prabhupāda: No. Forgiveness is... I know that in church the confession program is there. Forgiveness... Suppose you are or I am an offender. I ask your forgiveness. So you can forgive me once, twice, thrice, not more than that. You cannot make it a profession that you go on committing sins and God will forgive you. No, that is not possible. That is misconception. That is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). This sudurācāraḥ, means offender, that is not willful offense. One person is accustomed to some bad habits, but he has taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness. But on account of strong habit, if he fails sometimes, that is excused, forgiveness, not that willful committing sin and ask for forgiveness. That is not allowed. In common affairs we do not see. I have got practical, I mean to say, experience. In my householder life I was proprietor of a big pharmacy. So my manager sold some morphia preparation to some unauthorized person. So the sales inspector, they noted it and made us a criminal. And the magistrate called me because I was the proprietor. So my statement was given that "I do not conduct the business directly. Of course, I am responsible for my manager's fault, but I shall be very strict in future. You can forgive me." Immediately I was forgiven. But next time, if I go, if I say like that, that is not forgiven. That is not possible. So this forgiveness is good for accidental fault. But it cannot be continued, that is a wrong philosophy.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Atreya Ṛṣi: What is wine? He's saying that a Roman Catholic can take wine. The law allows them to take wine.

Richard Webster: Or tobacco or meat.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Or tobacco or meat. So the rules are different.

Prabhupāda: Then rules are not different, but we have to see. Just like your commandments. In the commandments there is "Thou shall not kill."

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Richard Webster: And no Roman Catholic will admit that it is wrong to drink wine.

Prabhupāda: Wine is sanctioned?

Richard Webster: I don't mean to get drunk. I mean to...

Atreya Ṛṣi: Wine, for today's Roman Catholics, they think it is sanctioned.

Prabhupāda: They think so many other things also. Just like Roman Catholics, there is example: they have allowed marriage between man to man. Do you know that?

Richard Webster: No.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In New York there is a paper, Watchtower. They publish a monthly magazine. I have seen in that magazine. They are condemning that the priests have allowed marriage, man to man. And...

Richard Webster: In New York maybe. Not in Rome.

Prabhupāda: Christianity does not mean in New York it should be different and Rome it should be different. Then nobody is following.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Richard Webster: Well. I understand. But I only think that the dietetic rules would be perhaps an obstacle to the spreading... I mean certain rules which are clean against European or American custom might constitute an obstacle to the spreading of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I mean, in the Roman Catholic church you have the monks. Then you have the laity who observe less strict rules without being considered outside God. And you don't have that, do you? I mean, the Kṛṣṇa movement is a movement of what we should call monks or religious... There is no laity in the Roman Catholic Christian sense, people of the world who are doing messy things, I mean, trading the drugs or whatever it is because it's a job they have to do, but belong to the church without being strictly religious.

Prabhupāda: At least the church people, the priests, they must follow strictly the rules.

Richard Webster: Yes. But I mean the difference seems to be with the Christian...

Prabhupāda: Common man may not follow or cannot, but those who are teachers or the priest or the leaders or the executive head, they must follow. Otherwise they cannot remain pure and they cannot take the position of teacher or head. Head must be clean. Other parts may be unclean, but the head must be clean; otherwise the whole business will be spoiled. Therefore, the strictures, rules and regulation, must be followed by four persons. One person is the executive head like the president or the king. And the other person is the religious preacher, priest. And the other person is the public leader. So at least these three, four heads of the men's human society, they must be of ideal character. Otherwise the whole society will be spoiled. People will follow the heads.

Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Monsignor Verrozano: In our Christian faith the love of God is joined with the love for man. Are you also interested with this love for man, for our rivals?

Prabhupāda: No, love for man... Let me say it. Love for man is imperfect conception because God is for everyone. God is not monopolized by simply the human society. The animal society, the bird society, the tree society, they are all living entities, soul. According to our karma, they are differently dressed. That is the most important philosophy, that soul is part and parcel of God. Somehow or other, the soul is now separated from the service of the Lord, and according to his desire of enjoying this material world, he has been offered different types of body. So either human being or animal or trees or aquatics, birds, beasts, everyone, all living entities, they are all part and parcel of God.

Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: God has also some hobby.

Cardinal Pignedoli: Yes. What I used to do when I am traveling... I travel a lot. I used to make friends among young people, generally teenagers. And then I choose also—I try to do this—people who are unbelievers, who are in difficulties, who are men of the weak faith, and who don't love, at least, they say they don't love God. Because I think that we are few men who love God, friends to God... We are not many. And we have to go and to look for these people, and for these areas or environments, where these peoples live. And it is for this reason that I say always when I am good friends, you know... Priests, Catholic priests, well, go to an area because here is too many. They don't need you here, but go to, well, I would say Stockholm or Copenhagen where there are a few really also, Christians, I mean Catholic or Protestants. We are all brothers. But they go there because there are very few people who are dedicated to God. What do you believe about this? I mean your society, your movement, your spiritual movement, is dedicated for this kind of people and for these areas, or not? I ask. It's not...

Prabhupāda: For all.

Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Cardinal Pignedoli: It is very similar to the Christian masses. We bring it everywhere.

Prabhupāda: We have no such distinction. So to the mass of people, we chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. But when there are learned scholars, elevated person, then we present about our philosophy. And we have got so many writings. Both ways: the mass and the class, or the scholars. We are prepared to meet everyone. Our mission is to make everyone, no distinction, that "This class should be given preference, and that should be neglected." No. We have got instrument to awaken everyone. By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, we can enthuse thousands and thousands of men to join us. And those who are advanced in philosophy and religious system, we have got these books. So we do not neglect anyone. We approach everyone.

Cardinal Pignedoli: Well, thank you for your explanations.

Prabhupāda: And it is being effective. It is being effective. In our group we find Africans, Americans, Indians, Europeans, Canadians, Japanese, Chinese, everyone.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Now the so-called, the priestly society, priestly society, they are amending the Biblical injunction according to their whims. Just like in the Bible, the injunction is, "Thou shalt not kill." But the priestly class and all classes, they are simply killing. So how they can guide? They are keeping regular slaughterhouse for killing. So how they can guide? I have asked so many Christian gentlemen, including priests that "Your injunction is that 'Thou shalt not kill.' That is Lord Jesus Christ's order. Why you are violating this?" They give me vague answers. Directly it is said, "Thou shalt not kill." And the whole world is simply killing poor animals, and keeping up-to-date slaughterhouse.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

C. Hennis: One of the obstacles is just plain poverty. One of the obstacles is overwork.

Prabhupāda: No, no. A human being should be considerate. Everyone has got religion. Either he is Hindu or Muslim or Christian, it doesn't matter. There must be discrimination between sinful activities and pious activities. Human being should be engaged for pious activities, not for sinful activities. That is human society. If the human being does not discriminate what is pious activities and what is sinful activity, that means lack of brain. He has no brain. He is no better than the animals.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: Every time a gentleman like that comes or a man like that comes and we get too close to the point about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they seem to become afraid.

Prabhupāda: No, as soon as we raise this question, killing, he became sorry. He has no answer. Therefore he wants to be out, evade. "Why Christians are killing?" Anyone I raise this question, immediately he becomes stopped, mum, dumb. That's all. Christian community, there are so many. Practically the majority of the human society, they are Christian. They are the persons who are indulging in killing. And where is Christian? Judging from the Ten Commandments, there is not a single Christian, not a single, and still, they are going, the Pope, the cardinal, the priest, the church. All simply show-bottles, that's all. There is no life. And therefore it is dwindling. Practically... Just like our Los Angeles was Christian Church. Nobody was coming. Therefore it was sold. And now there is no place to accommodate devotees. Life is lost in Christian religion. Nobody is interested, no more. And within a few years, it will be lost. It is lost in... I have seen in England. Nobody is going to church. All churches are being closed.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, they have the philosophy that, generally when we ask them, that "God created the world for us to enjoy." That is what the Christian generally says, that "The world is made for us to enjoy."

Prabhupāda: But enjoy does not mean that you enjoy sinfully. Did God give that document, that "You enjoy as you like, sinfully." Enjoy. There is prescription. You enjoy to the prescription. God says, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam (ISO 1). You simply enjoy what is allotted to you. Don't encroach upon other's property. This is God's injunction. You enjoy. As human being, you enjoy life. You have got food grains, fruits, flowers, milk. Enjoy life. Offer to Kṛṣṇa. Enjoy life. Why should you kill animal? That is God's... Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. He says patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26). Why do you go to kill animals? That is not enjoyment. That means you suffer, therefore you are suffering. You are creating suffering. So this man is at least informed that they have no brain.

Room Conversation with Biochemist, Dr. Sallaz -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Dr. Sallaz: From where it comes, our poor human knowledge cannot gain something precise about it. We must believe it—it comes from very high—but to explain it scientifically is completely foolish. That is our opinion. And further, as I said to you when looked at everywhere, if I take India, explain it coming here, that... I received it about ten or twelve years ago. That is what the Christians would speak about, a mystery, something extraordinary. I received from a holy man in India, with which I was corresponding from time to time. Without asking, I received a big book in Sanskrit. I could not understand a word about it. Well, I put it aside preciously...

Prabhupāda: What is that book?

Dr. Sallaz: It was the Āyurvedic collection. The old Āyurvedic medicine. This was this book. And I learned about it only one year ago because a professor of Sanskrit from India had it come from India to Europe and he's... Paris, I believe. He was a professor of Sanskrit. And showed this book. And he said, "It is marvelous. You cannot find it anymore. It is the old Āyurvedic medicine." And this I had for ten years without knowing what.

Prabhupāda: So we are very pleased that you are accepting that the life comes... Life is energy.

Room Conversation with Biochemist, Dr. Sallaz -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That cannot be destroyed.

Dr. Sallaz: That cannot be destroyed. It can disappear from the living people, Christian or other of this world, but not at all.

Prabhupāda: Then what do you mean by spiritual revolution?

Dr. Sallaz: It is to see, to look, for the real truth, the simple truth. The very simple truth. And to abandon our way of life aiming only for money, power and material things, to go back to simple living and especially to living with up.

Prabhupāda: Living with?

Yogeśvara: Living with higher thoughts.

Prabhupāda: Then higher thoughts... Is there any definition of the higher thoughts? (French)

Yogeśvara: He says humanly it is impossible to understand it.

Dr. Sallaz: We can feel it. We can believe it, but we cannot explain it.

Prabhupāda: No, if there is explanation by a person who is not a human being, say, God.

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Ahiṁsā, because at that time people were killing animals in the name of yajña. Just like in the Christian world the order is not to kill, but still, they are killing. So this misuse of scriptural injunction is always going on. A class of men there are who abuse the scriptural injunctions and go on with their own motive. So there was a period when people, under the protection of Vedas... Because Vedas, animal sacrifice is recommended for certain purpose, to test the proper chanting of Vedic mantras. The animal was not killed. The animal was put into the fire. Then again it would come out with new life. That is the proper chanting of the Vedic mantras. So for that purpose, animal sacrifice... Just like in biological laboratories, they experiment on the body of animals, frogs, guinea pigs. Similarly, a similar experiment was made, how the Vedic mantra is being properly chanted. The test was that animal should be put into the fire, and if the Vedic mantras were properly being chanted, then that animal would come with a new body. So an old cow or bull was put and he would come with fresh body. That was the purpose. Now later on, they began to eat meat by so-called animal sacrifice. In that period Lord Buddha appeared. About him it is, description is there, sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. The Lord became compassionate on the animals, as they were being killed unnecessarily. So Buddha, Lord Buddha, his only mission was to stop the sinful activities of animal... Ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ. He was teaching that. But these rascals, they would show the evidence... Just like Christians says that "Lord Jesus Christ ate fish" or something like that. Because Lord Jesus Christ ate fish, therefore they should maintain slaughterhouse. This is their reasoning.

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: The sun is absorbing or evaporating the urine, but sun is still pure. But if I imitate and lick up the urine, that is not very good business. Similarly, we cannot imitate the powerful, we have to simply follow the instruction of the powerful. That is... But people, on slight imitation... Is that very good reason? Suppose Christ sometimes ate fish, but that is sufficient reason to maintain big, big slaughterhouse? Because Christ said... And he teached in the desert. Suppose there was no food and he had to eat some fish. So that is his business. He could do it. He is powerful. But does it mean on that strength throughout the whole world the Christians will maintain big, big, up-to-date machinery for slaughterhouse? So it is sinful. So Buddha wanted to stop this nonsense, who were eating and killing animals on the strength of Vedas. They did not know what is the meaning, but they would say in the Vedas it is stated, paśavo vadhyaḥ sṛṣṭaḥ: "The animals are created for being killed." And what purpose it is killed? They, without knowing... Actually, they wanted to satisfy their tongue by eating the flesh, but they would give Vedic evidences. So to stop this nonsense business Buddha said that "I don't care for your Vedas." Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. Śruti-jātam means Vedic injunction.

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

religion.

Prof. Regamay: But I noted that for instance our Christian approach to God...

Prabhupāda: In Christianity they also recommend surrender to God.

Prof. Regamay: It's nearer to your approach than, for instance, I don't know, as the kevalādvaita I mean, where nirguṇa-brahman is the higher form of, than...

Prabhupāda: Nirguṇa-brahman... Just like... Here we have got this example. This is, what is called, New Zealand lake, and a few step after...,

Guru-gaurāṅga: Geneva Lake.

Prabhupāda: Geneva Lake. And few step after French lake.

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

religion.

Prof. Regamay: But I noted that for instance our Christian approach to God...

Prabhupāda: In Christianity they also recommend surrender to God.

Prof. Regamay: It's nearer to your approach than, for instance, I don't know, as the kevalādvaita I mean, where nirguṇa-brahman is the higher form of, than...

Prabhupāda: Nirguṇa-brahman... Just like... Here we have got this example. This is, what is called, New Zealand lake, and a few step after...,

Guru-gaurāṅga: Geneva Lake.

Prabhupāda: Geneva Lake. And few step after French lake.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: One gentleman came the other day, Protestant Center?

Yogeśvara: Yes. Pastor Babel. Yes. They are familiar with him. Monsieur Douant.

Swiss Man (1): The President.

Prabhupāda: Why don't you give him a chair.

Swiss Man (1): (French)

Yogeśvara: Little rheumatism.

Prabhupāda: Give him chair.

Yogeśvara: Yes, he's... Satsvarūpa Mahārāja. Monsieur Douant is the president of the Protestant Center of Geneva. Monsieur Roche-dieu who is the...

M. Roche-dieu: Former, former Honorary Professor of History of Religions on the faculty of theology, Protestant theology.

Yogeśvara: Mr. Roche-dieu is a specialist in Hindu religion.

Prabhupāda: Ah. (French)

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: It is just like your cross, amongst Christian. It is temple of Viṣṇu. Not only here, we have got twelve place: here, here, here, here, here. Twelve place. The idea is being protected by Viṣṇu from all sides.

Swiss Man (2): (French)

Yogeśvara: The shaved head, he's asking.

Prabhupāda: This is cleanliness. Instead of keeping unnecessary hair, we keep very clean.

Swiss Man (2): (French)

Yogeśvara: These traditions have existed for a long time, he's asking.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Especially the brāhmaṇas, they keep the shaven head. Brāhmaṇas are the topmost class. What is the symptoms of brāhmaṇa, find out.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: In other words, he's saying, what we're saying is that spiritually, everyone is equal, which is actually the same as the Christian idea.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Spiritually, not materially. Materially there must be distinction. Materially there must be distinction. But spiritually there is no distinction.

Swiss Man (2): (French)

Yogeśvara: What was his first point?

Guru-gaurāṅga: The point was that in Christianity everyone can become Christian whereas it seems in this only some can become brāhmaṇa. So he is interested what is the path to becoming brāhmaṇa. How does one become brāhmaṇa?

Prabhupāda: Brāhmaṇa means purified. Just like in Christianity also there are ten commandments. If you do not obey the ten commandments, how you can become Christian?

Yogeśvara: (French)

Prabhupāda: First of all, the quality. The quality of Christian is that he must obey the ten commandments. If he does not obey, then where is his Christianity? That is stated, guṇa-karma: by quality and work one becomes Christian or Hindu or Muslim. There must be the quality. But when the spirituality develops either from Christianity or Hindu or Muslim—it doesn't matter—then there is. Find out that verse, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Read it. This is the ideal of equality.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: So our, this movement is to create lover of God. It does not matter whether he follows Christianity or Hinduism or Buddhism or this ism or that ism. One must be lover of God, and that is stated in the Bhāgavata. That is first-class religion which turns the followers to become lover of God, that's all.

M. Roche-dieu: In Christianity, mystics would emphasize the same thing.

Prabhupāda: That is the essence of religion, to know God and to love Him. That's all.

M. Roche-dieu: Yes. Love God and love the man too.

Prabhupāda: Why man? Simply love God; then you will love everyone. Because God is the center, God is the father of everyone, so if you love the father, automatically you love the sons. It is not required that you simply love this son and not that son. That is not love of Godhead. "I love human being but I do not love the poor animals. Send them to the slaughterhouse." This is not love of God.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Guru-gaurāṅga: Given the fact that all others, they are loving God too, the same principle, Christianity...

Prabhupāda: No, symptoms must be there. If you love God, then you should love everything of God. You cannot distinguish that "These are human beings. They should be given service, and the animals should be sent to the slaughterhouse." That is not love of God. That means he does not know what is God. He is still unaware of God. Just like father. Father has got ten sons. Out of them, one is very intelligent or two are very intelligent; others are fools. And if the intelligent sons propose to the father, "Father, these are useless sons. Let me kill," will the father agree? So God is father of all living entities. He is providing food for the animal, for the man, because He is father. There is, in the jungle of Africa elephants. They are eating at a time hundred kilos. The father is providing. And the ant, a small ant, is eating one grain of sugar. He is providing. Within the hole of your room there are millions of ants. The father is providing food for them. That is God. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That one is providing all necessities of life to everyone, all living entities. That is God. So if I know God, then I can know also that all of them are sons of God and God is providing all their necessities of life.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: And Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." Why you are killing? From the very beginning disobedience. How you can become Christian?

Young Swiss Man (3): Isn't it at the beginning Arjuna hesitates to kill his family and doesn't want to go to fight, and what he is taught, through Bhagavad-gītā in some way is that he should not restrain and that...

Prabhupāda: But first of all you take your Bible. You are ordered not to kill. Why you are killing? Then go to Bhagavad-gītā. When there is aggression you have the right to kill but not unnecessarily you can kill. Suppose a tiger attacks you; you can kill. But you cannot go in the forest and kill the tiger. That is sinful.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: He says that for Christians, this feeling of being with God comes from praying to Lord Jesus Christ. He's asking if Kṛṣṇa has that same position for us.

Prabhupāda: Well, Kṛṣṇa is God, and Christ is son of God. We don't find any difference between the son and the father.

Swiss Man (1): (French)

Yogeśvara: Kṛṣṇa, he thinks, is an avatāra of Viṣṇu.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Yogeśvara: Kṛṣṇa, he says, is an avatāra of Viṣṇu?

Prabhupāda: Well, Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa is the same thing. It is external. Kṛṣṇa... Somebody says Kṛṣṇa is avatāra of Viṣṇu, and we say that Viṣṇu is expansion of Kṛṣṇa. Now, this example I have already given. Just like one candle. The another, ignite another candle, ignite another candle... Now, all these candles, so far light-giving power the same. But you can call, "This is first candle. This is second candle." And if you say the second candle is first candle, so there is no trouble because the candle power is the same.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: He says, do we see Kṛṣṇa as being a savior in the way that Christians see Christ as being the savior?

Prabhupāda: What do you mean by "savior"?

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Frenchman: (French)

Yogeśvara: He say the savior is one who rekindles the spiritual spark that reunites the living being with God. So the savior is in between God and the living being.

Prabhupāda: Savior means who saves you from this material existence. He is called savior. Because the living entity, being entangled in this material existence, he is suffering, so savior means one who saves from this material entanglement and gets him back to God, back to Godhead.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: So we are teaching this, that engage your mind to God or the son of god; it doesn't matter. But your mind should be godly engaged. That's all. That is meditation. That is real meditation: "Always think of Me." And in another place, in Sixth Chapter, you see,

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

mad-gatenāntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

(BG 6.47)

"The first-class yogi is he who is always thinking of Me." So it doesn't matter you are Christian, I am Hindu. The real point is that think of God or God's representative always. That is the point.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: That is false pride. This has been taught. In the Christianity they have taught like that, giving medicine, open hospital. That is Christianity.

Yogeśvara: He admitted it himself. He said himself, "It's a false pride to think..."

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Yogeśvara: "...think we can do something."

Prabhupāda: You cannot do anything. But they show. They make a collection, that "We are doing such nice work." The Vivekananda also imitated like that and could not do anything. It is not possible. Swami Nikhilananda said... He belongs to the Vivekananda group. Because they raise funds from America, huge funds, that "We shall feeding the poor in India." And they eat meat and big, big become fat, these rascals. So the Americans asked them that "You are taking away our money somewhere to feed the poor. But when we go to India, two sides we see all poor men are lying on the street. What you have done?" So this is a slogan. They cannot do anything. Thinking of poor... Now, those who have accepted voluntarily povertyism, the hippies, what you are doing for them? Why don't you make arrangement for their gentlemanly living? They are not poverty-stricken.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Certainly. These rascals, the priest, they do not guide them. They are also fallen. Otherwise, Christian religion is very nice. If they follow. So many times they asked me. "Yes, if you follow your Christian religion, you'll be perfect." Caitanya Mahāprabhu proved devotional service from Koran. Yes.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: The Khān Vaiṣṇavas.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So it requires the devotee who can explain from any godly literature about God. How rascal they are! "Jesus Christ ate fish. Therefore we shall maintain big, big slaughterhouse." Just see the argument. Then, in the Bengali, mosa makta kanan (?). There was a mosquito, and one is asking, "Bring a cannon." "Bring a cannon." Mosa makta kanan. Jesus Christ ate somewhere. There was no food available to eat, might have. Accepting he ate, but that, does it mean that you have to maintain slaughterhouse? Just see. And besides that, he might have done anything. He's powerful. He can eat. Therefore the other day I said, "He can eat the whole world." But you cannot imitate. You have to follow his instruction. That is Christianity.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1974, Geneva:

Guru-gaurāṅga: They did a survey among the Catholic priests...

Prabhupāda: What is this? They do not fight. Why there is soldier? (laughter) What nonsense. Why there are soldiers? The neutral? 1939. This is Second World War. And First World War, 19...

Yogeśvara: (reading) "Dedicated to the soldiers of Geneva who died in the service of their country."

Prabhupāda: So that means it was attacked?

Guru-gaurāṅga: Probably defending banks or things like that. Civil.

Prabhupāda: Two wars, 1914 to 1918.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Guru-gaurāṅga: That man yesterday wanted to know if we collaborated with other groups.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is collaboration. We are proposing this collaboration. All religion, they're after... Religion means to accept God. So if you accept God, we accept God. Then where is no cooperation? This is cooperation. But if you don't know what is God, we know. That is the difference. Ask this Christians, Mohammedans, and any other religious group, they have got a conception of God, ask them what is the form of God, what does He do, what is His..., so many things. They do not know. But we know.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Jyotirmayī: Yeah, Mr. (indistinct) is a priest, and he has been for a long time in India, a Christian priest, and he was very glad to know what you are doing here. Kṛṣṇa consciousness was...

Prabhupāda: In India, where did you stay?

Priest: In Poona.

Prabhupāda: Poona, oh. How long you were there?

Priest: Twenty-five years.

Prabhupāda: Oh, then you are Indian. (laughter)

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: In another place it is said asaṁśaya, that is in the Eighteenth Chapter. So to go back to home, back to Godhead, is very easy, but people will not take to it. They are stubborn; they will stick here, the miserable life, material life. This is the difficulty. Otherwise, God can be achieved very easily. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Four things.

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

mad-gatenāntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yukta(tamo mataḥ)

(BG 6.47)

The first-class yogis. Actually no education required. Simply God has given us the tongue and the ear. So it's Hare Kṛṣṇa, tongue, and hear with the ear. Śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir: by hearing, the sound enters into the heart. In this way you become purified, mind is cleansed, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). It is very scientific and very easy. And we are recommending—"we" means Caitanya Mahāprabhu—He says that "You chant the name of God." Now, if somebody thinks "Kṛṣṇa is Hindu God, why shall I chant?" it doesn't matter. You chant your conception of God.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

French Man: He has no name in Christianity.

Prabhupāda: Then take this name. (laughter) If you have no name, then take this name. Where is the harm? And they are taking Hare Kṛṣṇa, what is the harm? Every religion believes..., not believes; it is fact that there is God. Or any religion will deny the existence of God, is there any religion? I don't think. Is there any religion?

Bhagavān: Buddhist religion?

Priest: But you know, it's true, but you have got so many idea of God according to your own spiritual temperament.

Prabhupāda: No, God is one. There cannot be many ideas of God. That is not possible.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Priest: ...what is a perfect experience?

Prabhupāda: No. Even we are imperfect, with our... As far as our knowledge goes, generally, just like the Christians, they say "God is great." Is it not?

Priest: That is rather the Muslims.

Prabhupāda: Huh? That is Muslim.

Priest: Allah.

Prabhupāda: Allah akbar. So what is the conception of God of the Christian?

Priest: As you said, it's impersonal, trans-personal, what we explain by that Trinity. It's a relationship. It's a pure relationship.

Prabhupāda: Yes, relationship means that He must be a person.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: What is that experience? You ask, "Father, give us our daily bread," and that is experience. God is giving everyone maintenance. That is our actual relationship. In the Vedas also it is said, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). That is the God. God is also a person as you are person, I am person, but He is the chief person. Nityo nityānām, the chief, the Supreme. In the dictionary it is said Supreme Being. We are all beings, and He is Supreme Being. How He is supreme? Eka, that one; God is one. Bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He supplies the necessities of everyone's life. That is very good experience, we are getting everything from God. And the Christians also pray, "Give us our daily bread." So I don't find any difference between the statement in the Vedas and the Bible. God is the Supreme Person, and you make relationship with Him any way—as master and servant, as friend and friend, as father and son, or as husband and wife. So somehow or other we are related with God, this way or that way. The husband also maintains the wife.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Anywhere he has written. Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa has written. Kṛṣṇa has spoken, Vyāsadeva has written, and it is accepted.

Priest: But this is what the Christians say about the Bible, and I don't believe it (inaudible).

Prabhupāda: No, no, you don't believe anything, that is another thing. That is another thing. Without belief, you cannot make progress.

Priest: Ah, you have to go beyond.

Prabhupāda: As soon as you... Just like you learn who is your father. You take the version of your mother and you believe that "He is my father." Otherwise there is no other way. How can you know your father? The only means is his mother recommends, "My dear boy, he is your father." And that is perfect, that's all. Otherwise you cannot know who is your father.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Jyotirmayī: He said that in the Christian philosophy that the conception of God as the person, the personal God, and God as the divine essence. So he is asking...

Prabhupāda: God is person, then? What did he say?

Jyotirmayī: Then he said that so is it not that God, the person, this divine essence, is a superperson, an evolved person, and not exactly somebody impersonal. Like he said that in Śaṅkarācārya's philosophy there is the conception of tat. So is not this tat conception, this divine essence, this superperson...

Prabhupāda: Yes, He is divine essence. God is divine essence, just like you have volumes of milk and you churn it, then you get so much butter. So the butter is the essence of the milk. Similarly, the spirit is vast, all-pervading. The example, another example, is just like the sunshine universally spread, very big. Then you concentrate the sunshine, it is sun globe. And if you still concentrate, you will see within the sun globe there is sun-god. So he is the essence of this light, the sunshine light, the sun globe light, and the person—sun-god, Vivasvān, he is person—he is the essence among all this light. That is explained in the Brahma-samhitā, yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi (Bs. 5.40). The whole creation means expansion of the bodily rays of Kṛṣṇa. Yasya prabhā prabhavato (Bs. 5.40). By expansion of the bodily rays of Kṛṣṇa, this Brahman, yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam, tad brahma (Bs. 5.40). That Brahman. Brahman is..., just like the sunshine is the expansion of the bodily rays of sun-god.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Jyotirmayī: He is asking if it is possible for young Christians... Because each time he has been coming he has been bringing with him people, you know, Christian who have been chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, with him. So he is asking if it is possible for them to chant the name God, that in fact is not really a name, by the name Kṛṣṇa, because according to what you are explaining, God is Kṛṣṇa. So can they chant the name of Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is God. Kṛṣṇa is God. God is the idea of greatness. That is Brahman. Or you can say also person, but not the particular person. God means, the Sanskrit word is īśvara, the controller. So everyone is controller to some extent. In his own atmosphere he is a controller, as I am controller of my disciples. So the conception of God is there, but I am not the Supreme God. Therefore, there are two words. We use the word "Godhead," "the Supreme God." That is explained in the Brahma-saṁhitā, īśvara, God. Everyone is God; that is another thing. But īśvaraḥ paramaḥ, the Supreme God, is Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Priest: No. I went through that experience, and I would like... May I say something upon what he said? When you say is it possible for a young Christian to also follow the Hare Kṛṣṇa, I said I would like much more to do so. (Has brief conversation in French with Mr. Chenique)

Jyotirmayī: He is explaining that what he would like, that all these young Christian that he knows, it's not that he wants them to stop Christianity but to take in Kṛṣṇa consciousness what is missing in Christianity to help them in their own development.

Prabhupāda: Nothing is missing. Only, if I be frank enough, they are not following Christianity.

Jyotirmayī: (French) They said that then if Christianity is complete, then what is the need of coming here? What is missing there that we would find here?

Prabhupāda: To tell you that you are not following. (laughter)

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Priest: Why do you dress in that way which is an Indian way and not the European way?

Prabhupāda: Then why Christian go there?

Priest: They should not.

Prabhupāda: Then we should not.

Priest: Not because they do something wrong that somebody else has to do something wrong.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Thing is that just like there are scholars, the scholars also go. Just like you are doing in India. Why did you go to India? Why did you go to India and live there and (indistinct)? Anyone can come to study, to learn how to teach. That is human society. You cannot say that "You don't come here." You cannot say.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: I have not said that you dress like that. You like, you do it. Did I say that you do it?

Priest: It's like the Indian Catholic priest dressing like a (indistinct) priest or like a European priest. I mean, they look as if they had a disguise with them.

Prabhupāda: No, no, just like when the English were ruling, English national. So the Englishmen never said that "You dress like Englishmen," but they automatically dressed. You know very well. They do like that. The Englishmen, they went there to get some money by trade, by politics. But they never went there to change their dress. But they thought that "If I dress myself like Englishman, I will be more honored." That is their point. Similarly, we never preach that "You dress like this." But the student, they like this dress. That's all right. What is the wrong there?

Priest: It's not wrong. It's funny.

Prabhupāda: Rather these girls, when they dress in Indian way, they look more beautiful. That you will have to admit. Yes.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, another thing that's stated in the Bible, in the Christians' philosophy, they say that God created man out of His own image. It's stated in the Bible. So therefore man has a form, why not God? Because it's stated there in the Bible.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I think Bible is on the personal understanding of God. Christ says that he is son of God. Unless one is person, how he can beget a son?

Devotee: They talk about the trilogy—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. It is compared like the Father...

Prabhupāda: Bhagavān, Paramātmā, and Brahman, yes. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11), it is the same idea. Brahman, Holy Ghost, is impersonal, but Son is person and God is also person. I do not know much about, but I have heard from Christians that there is assembly of God, and Lord Christ has got a seat by the side of God.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Devotee: They're praising the name of the Lord.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, we have got very regard, good regard, for Christianity. We take it as Vaisnavism. It is explained according to country, time. And the commandments are very nice. The first commandment is "Thou shall not kill," but that is not stopped in the Christian world. Therefore we say that the Christians are not following. Christianity is all right. Those who are professing Christianity, they are not following.

Jyotirmayī: (French)

Prabhupāda: Muhammadanism also Vaiṣṇavism, because Muhammad says, "I am servant of God, Allah." So that is our conception, dāsya-rasa, dāsya. Śānta, dāsya, sakhya, vātsalya, mādhurya. So prayer, offering prayer, that is also bhakti. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam arcanaṁ vandanam. Just like we are worshiping Deity and somebody is offering prayer—both of them are approved. Prayer, vandanam. Dāsyam sakhyam ātma-nivedanam. So we don't say that this is bad and this is good. No. Both of them are bhakti. To worship the Deity or to offer prayer, the effect is the same. Effect is not different.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Either you follow all the nine principles or eight or six or seven, at least one, then you become perfect. That is our preaching. Just like Akrūra, the example is given. Akrūra got perfection simply by offering prayers. So I see when the Christian go to the church, in India I have seen, in Bombay especially, they kneel down and offer prayer. That's very good. We do not say that this is not approved. This is also approved. What is this Hare Kṛṣṇa? This is also prayer. Hare Kṛṣṇa, "O Kṛṣṇa, O the energy of Kṛṣṇa, kindly engage me in Your service." This is the meaning of Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is prayer. Repeatedly praying, "My Lord, the energy of Lord, kindly engage me in Your service." This is the meaning of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Just like you go to a mercantile firm with application, "Please give me some service. Give me some service," the same thing, appealing to God and His energy, "Please engage me in your service." So that is vandana. So vandana, and Christian also they pray, "O God, give us our daily bread." So this is also good, but it is material, asking something for material satisfaction. And here, Hare Kṛṣṇa, asking something for satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa, "Engage me is Your service," little advanced because God is supplying bread to everyone, even to the cats and dogs.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Jyotirmayī: He would like to know if to instruct young Christians to chant the name of Kṛṣṇa will be helping them attain the highest perfection or if it is changing their religion.

Prabhupāda: No. We are recommending "Chant the holy name of God." So if you have got the holy name of God, you can chant that.

Jyotirmayī: (French)

Man: (French)

Jyotirmayī: He said that in Christianity God has no name.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jyotirmayī: God has no name in Christianity, but the son of God has a name. And before they use for a long time, and everywhere they were saying the name of Jesus Christ.

Prabhupāda: But they say that in Christianity there is a name of God. They say. No?

Jyotirmayī: (French)

Prabhupāda: But you said that His name be glorified.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). Harer nāma means God's name.

Priest: You see, for instance, in Christianity for a long time there was a bhakti, and this bhakti was devoted to the name of Jesus. So for a very long time you had that Jesus bhakti. And in your country, in America today, like you have got the Hare Kṛṣṇa, you have got also the Jesus devotees. Now, this is also present in many places. And the name does not matter. There is no name who has got the... Because then you find again what...

Prabhupāda: No. If Jesus is the name of God, then you can chant. If Jesus is the name of God. But Jesus, Lord Jesus Christ, says that he is son of God. Of course, there is no difference between son and the father. That is another thing. But still, if I want the father, how by calling the name of son I can get the father? That is also another thing.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Priest: Yeah, but for the Christian the same. Jesus is a very common name.

Devotee: That's all right. We're saying chant. Our spiritual master is teaching "You chant the name of God." That's the important thing.

Prabhupāda: If you think that Jesus Christ's name is also, you can chant, we have no objection. We say that you chant the holy name of God, whatever you have got. That's all right.

Priest: And for a Muslim you mean to chant Allah.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Priest: Name Kṛṣṇa, Allah, Jesus, (indistinct), what is the...

Prabhupāda: Allah is not name. That is... It is not the name. It is just like the idea of God.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That is their ignorance. They do not know what is responsibility.

Devotee (3): They would say that so many have taken God realization as a responsibility following some Christian church or something like that, but they are also frustrated.

Prabhupāda: We are not frustrated. We are not frustrated. Are you frustrated? (laughter) How the rascal says frustrated? If you take false thing, then you will be frustrated. If you take real path of God realization, there is no question of frustration. It is ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam, increasing pleasure. No frustration.

Devotee (3): But they'd say that no one has real information of God.

Prabhupāda: You have no, rascal, because you are rascal. I have got. You just wash my feet and I will inform you.

Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!

Prabhupāda: You do not know how to swim, that does not mean I do not know. Is it a very honest statement? "Nobody can swim because he does not know." But if anyone knows how to swim, then why do you say that no one has done? You do not know, you accept that.

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Bhagavān: Or like the politicians, they are afraid to speak because they are afraid that they will be voted out or get no more money to support their...

Prabhupāda: Yes. They're after money. So they are less than śūdras. That is the cause that Christianity has fallen down, that they cannot speak straightly, or otherwise... It is straight commandment, "Thou shalt not kill." And because people are killing, they're... Now they are give man-to-man marriage, what to speak of other things. The priests, they are sermonizing this man-to-man marriage. Just see how degraded they have become. Whether any conception... At least, outside America, nobody knows that a man can be married with another man. What is this? And they're supporting it. You know that?

Bhagavān: Yes.

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So use this. This is one of the business. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). We don't stop trade. We don't stop food, producing food grains. But we want to stop these killing houses. It is very, very sinful. Therefore in Europe, so many wars. Every ten years, fifteen years, there is a big war and wholesale slaughter of the whole human kind. And these rascals, they do not see it. The reaction must be there. You are killing innocent cows and animals. Nature will take revenge. Wait for that. As soon as the time is ripe, the nature will gather all these rascals, and club, slaughter them. Finished. They will fight amongst themselves, Protestant and Catholic, Russian and France, and France and Germany. This is going on. Why? This is the nature's law. Tit for tat. You have killed. Now you become killed. Amongst yourselves. They are being sent to the slaughterhouse. And here, you'll create slaughterhouse, "Dum! dum!" and killed, be killed. You know. You showed me?

Bhagavān: Yeah, French guillotine.

Prabhupāda: You see. As soon as there is bell, the Roman Catholics began to kill the Protestants. So this is nature's law. You don't require to be sent to the slaughterhouse. You'll make your slaughterhouse at home. You'll kill your own child. Abortion. This is nature's law. What are these children being killed? They are these meat-eaters. They enjoyed. Now they are being killed by the mother. They do not know how nature is working. You must be killed. If you kill, you must be killed.

Room Conversation with Monsieur Mesman, Chief of Law House of Paris -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: This, we are chanting the holy name of Lord so that people may hear and their hearts be cleansed to understand what is God. (French)

Pṛthu-putra: This gentleman asks if the disciples have to give up their religion, if, for example, they are Christian, they have to give up Christianity to be devotee.

Prabhupāda: Well, Christianity also, they are trying to understand God, and we are also trying to understand, not only understand, but we, we are trying others to understand what is God. (French)

Pṛthu-putra: He asks if we have temple in France or if we do in apartment or if we do in conference, private conferences. How we are doing it?

Prabhupāda: Anyway. We welcome all, all learned men, or leading men, to understand this philosophy. And the book is... You show Bhagavad-gītā. And all other books also show him. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says, unfortunately, he doesn't read English.

Prabhupāda: Here is French. French language.

Morning Walk -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: We don't glorify the body of... Who glorifies the body of man? We say it is dead body. Dead body means that does not need glorification. It is condemned. We say dead body, decoration of the dead body. We don't say art.

Paramahaṁsa: Catholic Renaissance Art, they glorified the dead body. Leonardo da Vinci, they glorified the body of man.

Prabhupāda: That is called bhūtejya. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā as worshiping the material elements. That's all. Here in western countries, that is the prominent thing, bhūtejya. (pause) What is the other side? Lion? (pause, break) They cover with some cloth, some loose cloth. Is it not?

Bhagavān: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This is French art, to make naked?

Devotee: Yes.

Bhagavān: Little more advanced.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. Therefore nowadays students are walking naked in America. Advanced, more advanced.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Jyotirmayī: So he said that here in France, the Christians, they are now reviewing their own Christianity, their own philosophy, because they see that the materialistic people, they are giving critiques, and they are right in their critiques. So they are changing their religion.

Yogeśvara: In other words, he's saying that religion has to be defined according to the way the mass of people accept it.

Prabhupāda: That is not religion. That is sentiment. (French)

Devotee: (To Prabhupāda, as Frenchman speaks in French:) They're on the phone speaking with Brahmānanda Mahārāja.

Jyotirmayī: So he says that those who have been just religious and working for the independence, they didn't do any real good.

Prabhupāda: Now, first of all, our proposition is what does he mean by religion? (French)

Jyotirmayī: He said that there cannot be an abstract definition of religion, but only the experience of religion.

Prabhupāda: No, we have got definition of religion. Let him learn from us.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Jyotirmayī: So he said that in Hinduism, what he thinks is the best...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Religion is not meant for Hindus or Christians—for everyone. So there must be a general definition of religion. (French)

Jyotirmayī: So he said that his idea is that advaita-vedānta philosophy is the best in the world?

Prabhupāda: What is that advaita? What is that advaita? (French)

Jyotirmayī: He said that advaita-vedānta...

Prabhupāda: What is that advaita-veda philosophy? Let him define. (French)

Jyotirmayī: Advaita. A means without. Dvaita...

Prabhupāda: "Without"?

Yogeśvara: "Not." Dvaita means dual. So non-dual.

Jyotirmayī: Non-dual. "There is not two." This is advaita.

Prabhupāda: So what is that one?

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Pṛthu Putra: He thinks that the people in western world, mostly now they take Indian religion, some religion or philosophy come from India, because the Christian philosophy has some defect.

Prabhupāda: Very good. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says the religions that come from India are infinitely richer than the religion we know in the West. And we cannot see only one aspect. He says there is so many faces in Indian religions.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In... The idea of philosophy and religion, that is originated from India. There is no doubt about it. And that original idea of philosophy is practically demonstrated by Kṛṣṇa. The ideal original ideal of religion and philosophy is preached by Kṛṣṇa. And all the ācāryas followed that. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He said that is the distinction between the dogmatic aspect between the Hindu religions and the western religion.

Bhagavān: What is that? (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says the western or the Christian religion are marked by dogmatists and they are very...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Pṛthu Putra: He says, for example, he can see the mass of people in Italy, they are Catholic. But that doesn't mean he's going to be impressed by the Catholic philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Now, now, we have to... He was comparing that the mass of people, they take to Ramakrishna. That I have proved. They're not, the mass of people, not at all interested... That I have proved. That is my answer. (French)

Jyotirmayī: He said he was not saying that thousands of people were following Ramakrishna...

Prabhupāda: What is the mass of people mean?

Yogeśvara: He says Ramakrishna, whether he knew it or not, he was expressing a sentiment of the people at that time.

Prabhupāda: At that time. That is finished. So that is not permanent settlement. But Kṛṣṇa's, Kṛṣṇa's, I mean to say, supremacy, at least for the last five thousand years, is intact. Now, he says Aurobindo, Gandhi, Ramakrishna. They're all gone. They came and gone. But Kṛṣṇa philosophy is truth, and it is standing, and it will go on standing.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Pṛthu Putra: He says all the Christians and all the priests, that they tell to him from, that from two thousand years, the truth is in the Evangel. But still, he says...

Yogeśvara: Just like we're saying that all the ācāryas have accepted Kṛṣṇa, he says so also in the Christian religion, all the priests and all the Christians have said that Christ is the ultimate, as it is said in the Evangel. (French)

Prabhupāda: Yes, we have several times explained that Christ says that he is the son of God. So we don't deny it.

Karandhara: The point he's making, Prabhupāda, is that...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Karandhara: What he's saying is that outwardly, they all profess allegiance to Jesus, but they, it's seen that they disagree with one another on many points. They have diversified opinions about what Jesus meant about this and what does life signify.

Yogeśvara: And therefore, for him, he doesn't even consider that question, whether Christ is the son of God, whether he's not the son of God. For him, it's a secondary problem.

Prabhupāda: Now, now, what is his problem. That he did never disclose.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Then why shall I agree to his point? (French) So...

Yogeśvara: So he says, "So I have to leave now. But the last thing I'd like to say is that I reject that conclusion just like I reject also the Christian conclusion that the truth is in the Evangel. But," he says, "that doesn't impede me, that doesn't stop me from working very nicely with some of my best friends who are Christians when it comes down to practical work."

Prabhupāda: No, what is his opinion? That he never disclosed. (French)

Bhagavān: But what practical thing is he doing?

Pṛthu Putra: What he says, what he says... He's not Christian. He's actually, he's atheist and he's materialist. But he says he guides the people to read the Bhagavad-gītā because he says in Bhagavad-gītā there's something more than in the Evangel.

Prabhupāda: So we say also same thing. So where is the disagreement? (French)

Jyotirmayī: He says that in his political work, he teaches sometimes Bhagavad-gītā, and people are very interested.

Yogeśvara: He says he is the only Communist to suggest to people that they read the Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: No, we recommend everyone to read Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation with Russian Orthodox Church Representative -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Church Representative: This is also a fundamental idea of Christian spiritual. (French)

Prabhupāda: So in the Vedic language, one who has taken this body as self, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13), and sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu, and own men, the family, society, community, national, not outside that, sva-dhīḥ, "They are my own men." sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ, and the land of birth worshipable, nationalism, yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicit, and holy place, to take bath in the water of Jordan or Ganges, such persons are considered as go-kharaḥ. Go means cow, kharaḥ means ass. That means animals. What is your conception of the soul? Do you believe in the soul? (French)

Yogeśvara: He understands English.

Church Representative: I understand. My conception of soul?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Russian Orthodox Church Representative -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Karandhara: In the West also, in the past ten years there's been a resurgence of what's called fundamentalism. For so long the Christian liturgy, the Christian doctrine, got so hodge-podge and so wishy-washy that people were leaving because there was simply nothing there solid for them to grasp onto. Now fundamentalism, or the very basic principles that God is the Almighty and that we are sinners and if we don't repent, God's going to strike us down with wrath and anger, that basic principle of fear of God, that is receiving new support. Many people are coming back to that because even though it's a very vague thing, still it's something definite. "God is there, and if I do something wrong, He's going to cut me down," rather than, "Well, nothing's wrong, nothing's right," it's all hodge-podge, wish wash. People can't grasp onto that. There's nothing for them to...

Prabhupāda: That is Māyāvāda, "nothing wrong, nothing right. Everything is all right," Vivekananda's philosophy.

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Pṛthu Putra: He says he doesn't give any special meaning to Buddha. Sometimes Buddha is with them, sometimes Buddha is a concept of God like the Christianity they call God, or Buddha is all this disciplic succession. He doesn't give any special meaning to the word Buddha.

Prabhupāda: No, no, buddha, actually buddha means knowledge, "one who knows," that is the meaning. So that is existing always. Now, we are talking your (sic:) Jain Buddha. Jain Buddha. No? What is the...?

Karandhara: Zen. Zen's a later development. The school of Zen started...

Prabhupāda: So we are trying to study this Zen Buddha. Buddha means, ordinarily, knowledge. Budhā bhāva-saman... (break) (French)

Karandhara: The Zen school is a liberalization of the old Buddhist doctrines. Previously, hundreds of years ago, to completely follow the Buddhist path one had to renounce all activity. He had to go away from civilization and live in hermitage. Zen...

Prabhupāda: Nirvāṇa. Finish everything.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: You said in Geneva that no one has died from giving up cigarettes or illicit sex. So it is not so hard to do.

Prabhupāda: No, it is not hard. Now the Christian church is giving liberty, man to man marriage. Most unnatural.

Devotee: Previously they didn't allow divorce. The first principle was there is no question of divorce. Then so many people began leaving the Catholic Church. So then they allowed divorce. And then they did not allow abortion. So again so many people left the religion. Now they allow abortion. And now they are allowing man to man marriage.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Devotee: They compromise just to keep their followers.

Bhagavān: It's a matter of money.

Prabhupāda: And that is freedom. So Rāya Rāmānanda left because such freedom is not allowed here. So we have to allow this freedom like the church? (laughs)

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Because the church could not help them in understanding God. The Christian church has no idea what is God. Therefore there is no name of God. Actually, they have no idea about God. Is there?

Devotee: I was raised up a very strict Catholic, going through Catholic school till I was fifteen years old, but I could not... They were trying to teach love of God, but I could not see that they were also loving God. Even the head priest, he was found having illicit sex relationships with one of the young nuns, and she became pregnant by that and he had to leave. They quietly sent him away without anybody knowing, but later on it came out.

Prabhupāda: That is going on everywhere.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Old parents. (guests come in) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Thank you. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Jyotirmayī (translator): So I'd like to introduce you to these gentlemen and these ladies. He is... He's called Pere Canivez. Pere Canivez, here, and he is the Secretary of the Bishops of France, and he would like to come and discuss with you. Here is the Pere Fransad. He's a Christian priest also who, that I knew and so by his help Pere Canivez came. And he'd like to come with this lady who's come, Madame Siaude. She's living in India usually.

Prabhupāda: Oh, you live in India?

Madame Siaude: Yeah, in the French part of, far eastern state, in Pondicherry.

Prabhupāda: Pondicherry?

Madame Siaude: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Aurobindo's place.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: At least Christians cannot believe in impersonal God.

Jyotirmayī: What?

Prabhupāda: Christians, they cannot say that God is impersonal. (French) Because, because Christ is son of God. So the son is person. How the Father can be imperson? And in the Bible it is said, "There was word in the beginning." That is God's word. So if one has a word, then He's a person. Word comes from the tongue and mouth. As soon as there is word, background is tongue and mouth. And then... The Christians pray in the church, "Oh, God, give us our daily bread." So God has got ear so that He will hear and supply. But His personality, His word, His hearing, they're all transcendental, nonmaterial. (French)

Jyotirmayī: So he says he agrees on this point. As you say, God is... We have a personal relationship with God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, God is person. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). Absolute Truth is realized from three angles of vision, Brahman, Paramātmā and Bhagavān. Bhagavān is person, and Paramātmā, all-pervading, localized, and Brahman, impersonal. Just like the sunshine is impersonal the sun globe, localized, and the sun-god person.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Jyotirmayī: So he's saying that he respects your explanation, but that the Christians, they have another explanation, and that if we...

Prabhupāda: But we must come to the reason before giving explanation. You cannot explain...

Yogeśvara: What is the reason for his incarnation?

Prabhupāda: You cannot explain whimsically. You cannot explain whimsically. If Jesus Christ is son of God, he has... That means he has got spiritual body. You...

French Woman: Yes, we accept that he got the has got spiritual body, but we say that he assumed also a material body.

Prabhupāda: Now, then, then, another thing is: you accept Jesus Christ the only son of God, is it not? So when you pray in the church, you address God, "Oh Father." Then why "only son"?

French Woman: We say that the son is...

Prabhupāda: Then everyone is son.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: So... Shall I explain that one? What the good Pastor—are they called Pastor?—describes is that in order for there to be a dialogue, we have to respect each others' positions, not that we will try to convert the other. He says just as we respect you have an absolute faith in the Vedic philosophy, so also there must be respect that the Christian interpretation of the life of Lord Jesus and his death...

Prabhupāda: Oh, I think I have better respect than him to Jesus Christ. I say he does not die. He says he dies. (French) So far respect is concerned, I have more respect than them. They want to see Jesus Christ dead. I don't want to see him dead.

French Woman: No. Death and resurrection after, Jesus.

Yogeśvara: There's a resurrection.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That is... When we pray, offer pray, it is stated that that is his, one of the qualifications. Sada... Nindasi. Nindasi yajña-vidher. The animal sacrifice is recommended... Some of the sacrifices or all of them... So that animal sacrifice was not meant for eating. Just to give them new, rejuvenated life by the Vedic mantras, to test that whether Vedic mantras are being chanted properly. And because at the Kali-yuga there is no such expert brāhmaṇa, all sacrifices are forbidden. So later on, as they deteriorated, they began to offer sacrifices, and if anyone wants to stop it, they will say, "Oh, it is recommended in the Vedas." Just like these rascals, Christian: "Oh, Christ ate fish. Therefore we must maintain slaughterhouse." Just see how rascal they are. Supposing Christ ate somewhere fish. Therefore they would maintain regularly slaughterhouse of cows. This is their brain.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

eat meat in the West. Maybe in India, because of the climate, you can get away with that."

Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom, another rascaldom. He's a first-class rascal. That was the support by Vivekananda. He was eating everything. All the Ramakrishna Mission, they say like that, "Oh, without meat-eating, without drinking, you cannot stay." All rascals. Therefore, the conclusion is, all rascals, the religious, social, all rascal. If they want to be saved from their rascal position, this is the only, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If they don't want to be saved, if they want to go to hell, who can check? Ātma-han. Ātma-han means "self-suicide." Suicide, yes. If you cut your throat yourself, who can save you? So they are all these like, all, all these Buddhists, Christian. We may not speak very strongly. They will be our enemies.

Bhagavān: There's other guests here.

Prabhupāda: Shortly. But this is the position. They're all rascals. But we don't hate anyone. We want to raise them. Actually they're all rascals. Do you accept this philosophy...

Yogeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: ...that they are all rascals? Hare Kṛṣṇa. Let them come forward. Jaya.

Room Conversation with German Women Philosophers -- June 17, 1974, Germany:

Pṛthu: Yes, yes, she says that there is something like eternal condemn in the Christian teachings, like Jesus said.

Prabhupāda: Eternally hellish life.

Pṛthu: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So then why she says that everyone will go, peace? (German) (break)

Pṛthu: She makes no... She said that if she could listen to Jesus, what he said, formerly, then she would know, but she says actually one cannot believe it so much because can anyone believe that he has made the dead Lazarus... This was a person who already died, and Jesus came and gave him life back. So she says nobody can believe that, that Jesus has made this dead Lazarus...

Prabhupāda: I don't follow. What is that?

Satsvarūpa: She, from what he says, she does not actually believe in Jesus.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Satsvarūpa: This lady. She says that who can be sure of what Jesus actually did because he was...

Prabhupāda: Then why, why she quotes Jesus? If she does not believe in Jesus, why she's giving evidence from Jesus? (German) (break)

Pṛthu: She says like if she makes a comparison like if today there is a car crash, then all the people will say something different and the information will differ from the original car crash. So she says, in the same way, what Jesus did and said is now twisted around so nobody can actually give...

Prabhupāda: That means everyone has rejected Jesus.

Morning Walk -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: At present Christian religion is made easy. Christian religion made easy. What is that? Now, first of all Christ has taken out contract that "You go on committing all sinful life. I am guaranteeing you will be saved." Is it not?

Haṁsadūta: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Or...? What is that?

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So poor Christ has taken all concern. He will be crucified, and they will enjoy life. This is very easy religion. "I have nothing to do, and besides that, if Christ says something to do, that also we can neglect because he has taken guarantee. So although Christ says, 'Thou shalt not kill,' I can neglect that." And then, if still he is captured, he will say, "Bible is very old."

Morning Walk -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: (laughing) How they have made easy life, that see. They are... There is a story that a boy went for examination. So when he came back, his father asked, "My dear boy, how you have written your question paper?" "Yes, very nice." "How?" "No, those questions which were very difficult, I could not answer. And the easier questions, what is to write? I know everything. (laughter) Easier questions, there is no need of writing. I know everything." Both ways he has not written anything. So these rascals, both ways they will not follow anything. And still, they will credit... Not only Christians, everywhere these people want to banish God. Simply we are canvassing "God, God, God." Otherwise nobody cares. Say about 1945, so in front of my house there was an old man. So as neighbor, we had very good talks always. So as soon as I say, "Bhagavān," he will be angry. "God." So one day he said, "Why you always say Bhagavān, God?" Just see, an old man and still he is such a rascal. He did not like. That is called demonism. Even the father of Prahlāda Mahārāja, that five years old boy, he was doing nothing harm, simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa—he became angry: "No, no." So big enemy that he wanted to kill him. This is demoniac. Some bad smell?

Haṁsadūta: I don't know. (break)

Prabhupāda: There was a movement, Moral Rearmament Movement, started from America.

Morning Walk -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: So it was going on for some years, then collapsed. The movement was started by some priest or gentleman, and it was supported by President Eisenhower. It was patronized by him. So their principle was that, Christian principle, that "You do whatever you... Simply confess. Simply confess." So that man came to India also with his party, just like I travel. (break) ...substance, no movement will stay. It may go on for some time, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). Now, what about our movement? It will stay or it will also go like that?

Satsvarūpa: It will stay. We already have another generation coming up in Gurukula. The big danger, you say, is faction.

Prabhupāda: We shall go straight or right?

Haṁsadūta: Right. (break) He has taken safety place, and from safety place he is killing other poor animals. That is not shooting. The kṣatriyas, they will shoot tiger face to face. Previously Jaipur Mahārāja, he used to go to the forest, and so he would simply fight with the tiger with a sword.

Haṁsadūta: That doesn't happen anymore today.

Prabhupāda: See the tiger has got its nails and teeth and jaw. So there was no firearm. He will challenge the tiger with a..., and he will take a sword and kill him. And then the tiger would be brought in procession, giving all honor, military honor.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: In my work I always feel the great difficulty again and again. That is also there. It's a great difference to believe that you are the son of God and to feel it and to experience it. As long it's only a belief, it's well meaning doing. How to prepare the conditions by which disciples might feel it? That's all of my daily work.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like... It is very simple thing. Just like if I say... Suppose you have not seen your father. You are posthumous child. But you must believe that there is father. Without father there is no possibility of my existence. That is belief. And in the Christian...

Professor Durckheim: Experience it.

Prabhupāda: This is experience. The Christian people, they go to church: "O God, give us our daily... Father, give us our daily bread." So there is the supreme Father. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā. Find out this,

sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya

sambhavanti mūrtayo yāḥ

tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma

ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā

(BG 14.4)

Kṛṣṇa says, God says, "I am the seed-giving father of all living entities in different forms of life."

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: It is one of the great phrases of the Gospel of St. John which the church forgot, that Christ always says, "I am the son of God, and you are my brother. You are sons of God just as I am."

Prabhupāda: Yes. But they do not agree now. Just see. Everyone is son. Now we say that... The Christians, so-called Christians, are so ignorant, as soon as you say, "Everyone is son," they rebel, "No. Christ is the only son." And you say that Christ said that "I am the son, and you are also sons." This is the fact. Kṛṣṇa says that "All living entities are My sons." That is the fact. He is the supreme father.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: May I ask a question, master. You see, the belief, the understanding, is always depending on the level of the one who wants to understand, and that's the level of our quite natural, normal mind of the usual general person. And there is another level where certain experiences open the door to some deeper consciousness. And, as you know, one of the key words of the Christian religion is in the Gospels, that you have to turn around, to make annoya (?), to pierce through a certain skin to get quite another level.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: May I ask a question? If you give us this wisdom, don't you meet now in the western world an opposition from the Christian side where the key word that this faith becomes a body, this faith becomes flesh.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. We accept it.

Professor Durckheim: The incarnation. How do you understand incarnation? (German)

Prabhupāda: Now, this question, that spirit develops the skin, you said?

Professor Durckheim: Spirit? You see I have very often... I saw the difference.

Haṁsadūta: The spirit becomes flesh.

Professor Durckheim: The spirit becomes flesh.

Prabhupāda: That's it. So this we can experience, that as soon as the spirit is entered into the womb of the mother, they develops skin and the child develops body. So this is very practical, that first of all, not that simply by sexual intercourse a child is born. Then every the time sexual intercourse would have caused pregnancy. No. Unless the spirit soul is there, there is no question of developing body. Therefore it is natural that the spirit soul creates this flesh and bone and other things and develops into body. There is no difficulty to understand.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: Yes, in principle. You see sometimes, it seems to me, I might be wrong, that there is one difference between Eastern wisdom and Christian way to think that whereas in the Eastern way, we have to become rid of our body, to be liberate from our body, whereas Christian sense means to realize the spirit within the body. (German)

Prabhupāda: Now, what is our suffering?

Professor Durckheim: I am sure it can be reconciled, but I am interested to know how do you see this question.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That everyone can understand. It is very easy. Now, just like we have already heard from Bhagavad-gītā that I am the spirit, I am within this body. So my sufferings are on account of this body. This is a fact. Because I have entered into this body, material body, there are my sufferings. Therefore my business should be how to get out of this body. Is it clear or not?

Professor Durckheim: Yes.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Lady: Have you got some points in common with the Christians?

Professor Durckheim: Lady says that there are some common points with the Christians who also certainly want to become independent from this body which wants material life only.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It doesn't matter whether it is Christianity or Hinduism or Muslim or... Knowledge is knowledge. Wherever knowledge is available, you must pick up. So knowledge... Now let us explain, that knowledge has no color. Knowledge is knowledge. It doesn't matter whether Christianism or Hinduism or Mohammedan. Now, this is a knowledge, that every living entity is imprisoned within this body. This knowledge is equally good for Hindus, Muslim, Christian or everyone. There is no question of Christianism or Hinduism. The soul is imprisoned within this body, and the problem is birth, death, old age and disease on account of this body. But we want to live eternally, we want full knowledge; we want full blissfulness. To attain that goal of life, we must get out of this body. This is the process.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Te, what is that? Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā, inquiring about the Absolute Truth, that is the only business of human being.

Professor Durckheim: Now may I put a question? Just I think there is one way to reconcile. This was given just now as a Christian view or of the other side, as far as the body is concerned, because I think there are three consciousness, conscience of body. The one looks only at health, the second one only of beauty, but the third one we are never talking about has to look to transparence of our body consciousness, to become transparent in a way that in our body and through our body we might look for the Absolute Truth.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Professor Durckheim: That this goes together. (German)

Prabhupāda: Yes. So the thing is that if my life is based on false conception that "I am this body," so the bodily appreciation of beauty or any other thing, that is also false. That is also false. If I am not this body, then anything conceived in relation with this body, that is false.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: If you don't like to chant Kṛṣṇa you chant in your own way. Chant the name of God. If you know the name of God chant it. If you do not know then take it from me. (laughter) We are recommending to chant the holy name of God. If you know, you chant that name and if you don't know then take it from me. (German) (break) ...explained by Caitanya Mahāprabhu that God has many thousands of names or God has no name. No name means He has, He has got so many thousands of millions of names that you cannot say, "This is only God's name." This is one sense. But how God names are understood? The God names are understood by His action. Just like we say Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. God is all-attractive. God is attractive for the Hindus, for the Muslim, for the Christians, for everyone. Therefore, being all-attractive, there's a Sanskrit word of all-attraction, Kṛṣṇa. This is the explanation of the attribute of God. Similarly, if you've got similar name which explains the attributes of God, that is also God's name. (German) I think Lord Jesus Christ said "God, hallowed be Thy name."

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Dr. P. J. Saher: We have a similar thing in the Christian (German).

Prabhupāda: Yes. Christian method, the offering prayer. That is bhakti, that is bhakti. (German) (break) Kali-yuga means fight. Nobody is interested to understand the truth but they'll simply fight, "In my opinion, this." I say, "My opinion, this." You say, "His opinion." So many foolish opinions and fight within themselves. This is the age. No standard opinion. Everyone has got his own opinion. Therefore there must be fighting. Everyone says, "I think like this." So what is your value, your thinking like that? That is Kali-yuga. Because you have no standard knowledge. If a child says the father, "In my opinion, you should do like this." Is that opinion to be taken? If he does not know the thing, how he can give his opinion? But here, in this age, everyone is prepared with his own opinion. Therefore it is fight, quarrel. Just like the United Nation, all the big men go there to become united, but they're increasing flags. That's all. Fighting, it is a society of fighting only. The Pakistan, the Hindustan, the American, the Vietnam. It was meant for unity but it is rendered into fighting association. That's all. Everything. Because everyone is imperfect, anyone should give his perfect knowledge.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Well, who is not self-controlled, he'll not be convinced because he'll think that he's rebellious, "I can do anything what I like. I can eat whatever I like." Now how he will like this idea of self-control?

Professor Durckheim: But one question, you see. These virtues have been always asked for by Christian churches also, exactly the same. But then today we realize that the virtues are on one level with the vices. But there's something different. If you pass through the (indistinct) step you get somewhere, you see where we can understand, for instance, if Christ says "Let the dead bury their dead." A phrase like this appeals to a different level. So I think as long as you...

Prabhupāda: No. It is not different level. The advice is given according to the time, person. So if people follow Lord Christ and, I mean to say, instruction that is also perfect. But they do not follow.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: That's it. Otherwise either you follow Bhagavad-gītā or Bible as they are, then you become gradually perfect. The difficulty is they do not follow. And still they're claiming "I am Christian." "I am Hindu." "I am this." "I am that." Rubber stamp. No qualification but rubber stamp. This is the defect. (German) (break)

Vedavyāsa: ...qualifications on the material platform.

Prabhupāda: First of all acquire this material qualification. Then talk of spiritual. (German) Just like I think in the university if one wants to learn about law he must be graduate first of all.

Dr. P. J. Saher: In India. Yes.

Prabhupāda: So you, first of all become graduate then talk of law books. Similarly, you first of all become a brāhmaṇa. Then you understand about Brahman, Absolute Truth.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Dr. P. J. Saher: I mean, my question only I saw singing the people...

Prabhupāda: No, just like these boys and girls, they are coming from Jewish group or Christian group. They have not come from India. Now how they're chanting and enjoying you can see.

Dr. P. J. Saher: No, I mean the intention was the same. They're looking for (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) ...you have to see the resultant study.

Dr. P. J. Saher: I was quite surprised.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And ask them to induce to chant any other name. They'll not do that. Phalena paricīyate, you have to study by the result of the activity, not theoretical. (German)

Dr. P. J. Saher: Yes. That would be the criterion for me.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. P. J. Saher: Yes, that's the same what the Christian criterion when St. Paul speaks. They had the same...

Prabhupāda: No. We say that you follow Christian principle, you become perfect. But the difficulty is nobody follows anything. He follows his own opinion. That's all. "In my opinion." What you are, your opinion? That is the difficulty. Yes you can take.

Vedavyāsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Bible there are a lot of statements regarding chanting, instructions that people should chant the holy name of God. Like in the Old Testament it says from the morning to evening you should chant the holy name of God.

Prabhupāda;: Yes. That is the business in this age. Chant the holy name of God.

Professor Durckheim: Whatever you do, do in the name of Jesus Christ, the Bible...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. You take this in the name of Jesus Christ.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the case. In America also the ladies and gentlemen ask them, "Are you Americans?" Because they do not see Americans with such nice face. One Christian priest—I was going from Los Angeles to Hawaii—so he came to talk with me. He inquired "Swamiji, how is that your disciples look so bright?" He inquired. Yes.

Prof. Pater Porsch: Without drugs.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And one Christian priest he showed one pamphlet that these boys, they're our boys but before this they're not coming to the church. They do not want to ask anything about God. Now they're mad after God. How is it? He admitted, "They're our men." And I give you another example. In our Los Angeles temple—this was a church, big church—but it was not going on. It was being closed. And it was sold to us. And now you go and see there is daily thousands of... the same men, the same place. The crowd is so... Why? I have not brought all these men from India. Judge. Unless it is something sublime, how they're accepting it? And they're all young boys. Not that they have become old, therefore they're seeking after God. (everyone laughs) And young men have got so many aspirations, they go to the restaurant to smoke, to enjoy girlfriend, boyfriend, these... They have given up everything.

Morning Walk -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: So before that, there was no Christian?

Haṁsadūta: No, before that, there was no Christian.

Prabhupāda: What they were? No religion?

Haṁsadūta: They were like you said. They were just tribes people.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So these Germans were tribe people, uncivilized?

Haṁsadūta: Yes, before Christianity, Europe was completely uncivilized.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Therefore the order is "Thou shalt not kill." Simply their business was killing. Uncivilized persons, they kill animals and eat. So due to past habit they could not forget this killing business. This is the proof that this system of religion was preached among the crude people, not civilized.

Room Conversation -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) tradition, they are all material. They are also designation. I'm thinking I am Hindu, you are thinking Christian, he is thinking this, these are all designation.

Guest: Within each of these there is the esoteric.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be.

Guest: Whatever it is...

Prabhupāda: It is material. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). "Give up all these types of false religions." Mam ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. That means come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ekam, anyone. So unless one becomes fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's in trouble. (indistinct) And our difficulty is that when we want to convince a person on Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he thinks that I am Hindu, I am Christian, I am Mohammedan. I am trying to proselytize, that is (indistinct).

Guest: No, it was not that I was really saying. Rather that what I have heard from others comes to the same thing as you were saying.

Prabhupāda: Others, if they try for the same thing, then it is alright. Because that type of religion, that system of religion, is first-class which teaches people to come to the platform of God consciousness, to love God, then that is first-class religious system. It doesn't matter what is the designation.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: Well, he explained from his theologian point of view, when Moses was asking God, "Who is Thy name?" God didn't give a name but said only, "I am who I am." And then He explained if in the prayer one says, "Blessed be thy name," they use this in order to avoid a direct name. So just only say, "The name." But I don't understand the whole thing because the word God already is... What do you want more? And I believe that in the Christian religion, everybody just says God. They think the word God is the name and nothing more needed.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. That is not very good sense, that president, president of America. People say " 'President' is sufficient." Then why "Mr. Nixon"? They are all fools? No, they say, "Mr. Nixon," sometimes they say, and sometimes, "the President." Rather, they say more "Mr. Nixon" than "the President." Why?

Professor Durckheim: Sure. But I only can say...

Prabhupāda: So this argument, this argument is not very sensible argument.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1974, Germany:

Satsvarūpa: In Arabia?

Prabhupāda: No, no. There was a boy. He was theologician. Prajāpati, Prajāpati. Do you remember? He was theologician. Our only request is that Bible confirms there is name. Now, even though they do not know the name, here is the name, Kṛṣṇa. So why people will not take this name to chant? And if by chanting the name there is practical benefit, why they should object? Why they should be so sectarian? Theologician, at least, must not be sectarian. So let the whole world chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So there is no loss. If there is any gain, why not take it? And because you are writing books, therefore I am requesting you to write this, that some of the Christians, they say there is no name, but Christ says there is name, and here is the name. They are chanting, and they are getting profit. We don't want anything. We don't want any price, that I have researched the name.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: What these theologicians think about God? It is already 1,500 months' substance to read. What they will discover? Teeny discovery? We have already stock for 1,500 years' understanding. So what we have to understand from them? (break) ...anādir ananta-rūpam. This is only for Kṛṣṇa. But Kṛṣṇa has got expansions—unlimited. Advaita, acyuta, ananta. Ananta means unlimited. God, His one feature is Kṛṣṇa, and He has unlimited features. If a gentleman simply reads the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam quietly at home, he will be fully conversant, fully aware of what is God. Just like a scholar. He is not limited in one university or in one book. He reads various books to understand the subject matter of his research. Similarly, those who are actually serious about understanding God, they should not stick only to a particular scripture. They should read all others where the information of God is there. Just like we sometimes quote from Bible, but the Christians, they cannot quote from Bhagavad-gītā or Bhāgavata. They cannot do that. But they do not read. Even they do not read fully their Bible.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: They are all impersonalists. The whole world is impersonalist. Perhaps we are only the personalists.

Professor Durckheim: You know that the Christian theologian, they think the main difference between them and Eastern religions altogether is that the Christian are personalists and Eastern tradition is not personalist. This is the whole...

Prabhupāda: Misconception, yes. The majority of Indian population, they are personalists. Yes, majority. Either they worship God or demigod, but they are personalists. Recently the Māyāvādī philosophers, they have poisoned, the impersonalism, calamity. God is person. It is... In the Veda it is said, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). There are millions of persons. We are all persons. And God is the chief person. Just like in modern democracy, there is no monarch. But ultimately they have to select one president. Without person, there cannot be government. Why they do not remain without a president? Let it... Government, everything is government, impersonal.

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Don't come near. (German translation)

Guest (1): And also the holy Francis of Assisi was in relation with all animals in the Christian tradition.

Prabhupāda: In Christian tradition there is everything nice, but nobody's following. That is the difficulty. (break) ... portion of the road is not paved like this. Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Both the man and animals will live prosperously when there is sufficient foodgrain. (break) ...at anna-sambhavaḥ. If there is sufficient rainfall, the production of foodgrains will be very easy. And yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). And if you satisfy the Lord by performing yajña, then there will be sufficient rain. And yajñaḥ karma-samudbhavaḥ. And our activities should be only to perform yajña, to satisfy the Lord.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: You are Roman Catholic?

Pater Emmanuel: Yes, Roman Catholic. But I follow the eastern rite of the Greek Orthodox church. In our monastery you get the two rites, the Roman Catholic and also the customs of life... It's like the Greek Orthodox monks. We also have the rosary.

Prabhupāda: Like us.

Pater Emmanuel: Yes. And continue also, "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy upon me." Also I repeat, "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy upon me. Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy upon me."

Prabhupāda: Very good. You know Greek language?

Pater Emmanuel: Yes, I know.

Prabhupāda: So you know the word Christo.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: The name of God is Christ. That Christ is another form of pronouncing Kṛṣṭa. And Kṛṣṭa is another form of pronouncing Kṛṣṇa. Therefore God's name is Kṛṣṇa. So Christ said to glorify the name of God, but somebody says in Christian that there is no name of God. Why?

Pater Emmanuel: We have name of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is that?

Pater Emmanuel: We talk God, "Father," or "our Father."

Prabhupāda: No, "Father..." Just like your son may call you, "Father," but you have got a name also, "Mr. such and such." My son, your son, everyone's son calls his father, "father." But the father has a name also. Similarly, God is the general name, but still, He has got a particular name. And that name is Kṛṣṇa. And that is accepted by Jesus. Jesus the Christ or Jesus the son of Christ or Kṛṣṇa. And he identified himself as the son of God. Therefore the name of God is... Either you call Kṛṣṭa or Kṛṣṇa or Christo, it doesn't matter. The name of God is Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṭa.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: So it doesn't matter, Kṛṣṇa or Christ. The name is there. And we are recommending according to Vedic scripture that in this age one should simply chant the holy name of God. We are chanting that,

Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare

Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare

Rāma and Kṛṣṇa, they are the name of God. And Harā is the energy of God. So we are chanting Kṛṣṇa, or God, along with His energy. He has got two energies, spiritual energy and material energy. So at the present moment we are under the jurisdiction of material energy. So we are praying to Kṛṣṇa, "Kindly transfer me from the service of material energy to the service of spiritual energy." This is our whole philosophy. Hare Kṛṣṇa movement means, "O the energy of God and O God, Kṛṣṇa, please engage me in your service." Because our constitutional position is to give service. Some way or other, we have been put in the service of the material energy. So this service can be transferred to the spiritual energy. Then our life is successful. That is our philosophy, bhakti-mārga, bhakti-yoga. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). Here we are giving service as Hindu, as Muslim, as Christian, as Jain, as this or that. These are designation. Designation. When we become free of the designation and then serve God, that is called bhakti or devotion. Just like we have manufactured Christian religion, Hindu religion, Muslim religion, this religion, that religion. But when the religion will be without designation—I am neither Hindu nor Muslim nor Christian, but I am servitor of God—that is pure religion.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Pater Emmanuel: Allow you a question? You know that we Christians are also preaching the love of God, and we seek to fulfill the love of God and to serve God with all our heart and soul. And what different from your movement who will the same? And why do you send your disciples in these Christian countries to preach the love of God when the gospel of Jesus Christ is also preaching the love of God, God love?

Prabhupāda: But if you don't mind, I can say that the Christians are not obeying the orders of God. Do you agree or not?

Pater Emmanuel: I agree.

Prabhupāda: Then where is love? If you disobey the orders of God, then where is your love? Therefore we have come here to teach them to love God. If you love me, you cannot disobey me. And if you disobey me, that love is not real.

Pater Emmanuel: Will that means that Christianity has to change their customs or the Christianity, Roman Catholic or Protestant, must return to the source?

Prabhupāda: (aside) You can sit on the chair if you like.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Not only Christianity, everywhere, the people now do not love God, but they love dog. Yes. Therefore this movement is required, awakening of God consciousness. Not the Christians, they are only to be accused, but Hindus, Muslim, everyone. They are simply stamp, but no obedience to God. This is the position.

Pater Emmanuel: Can you say exactly the point where Christians are not obedient. Do you see any points here by your visit to the Christian countries and you like to say for us? It is a help for us to say exactly the point.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The first point is that your commandment is "Thou shalt not kill," and you are maintaining regularly slaughterhouse. The first commandment is disobeyed. Do you agree or not?

Pater Emmanuel: Um...

Prabhupāda: Or in my front the animals are being kept for being killed.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Therefore, actually, if Christians are lover, they must stop immediately this animal killing.

Pater Emmanuel: And you think it's a principle point, the top point.

Prabhupāda: But if you miss one point, if you commit mistake in calculation in one point, the more you make calculation, add and subtract, it is all mistake. (German) Just like in the bank they daily make a trial balance, and if there is one mistake anywhere, the trial balance does not come.

Pater Emmanuel: I understand.

Prabhupāda: This is called ardha-kukkuṭī-nyāya (Cc. Ādi-līlā 5.176). If you... I will explain. Ardha-kukkuṭī-nyāya means there is a logic of accepting half of the chicken. The chicken or what is called, cock, that?

Haṁsadūta: Oh, the rooster, hens.

Prabhupāda: Hens, rooster, rooster. No, the female is called hen?

Haṁsadūta: Hen.

Prabhupāda: Hen. The hen is giving egg and, by the backside, by the rectum, and eating by the mouth. So one man is considering that "This mouthpiece is expensive because I have to give to eat. Better cut it." So if the mouth is cut, then there will be no egg because it's a dead body. So this is not good logic, (laughing) that the expensive portion may be cut and the profitable portion may be kept. This kind of interpretation will not be helpful. If you accept the whole, this side and that side, then business will go on.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Pater Emmanuel: In the Christian tradition... (German)

Prabhupāda: The first commandment is "Thou shall not kill." But they are killing. The first point is disobedient. Then where is love of God?

Pater Emmanuel: (German) It is in the relation of man. "Don't kill," it says, the Christianity understands...

Prabhupāda: Why they understand like that? That means that Lord Christ was not sufficiently educated to use the right word, "murder"? Does it mean so? There are two words, killing and murder. Murder is especially meant for the human being. So do you think that Christ was not learned enough to use the word murder instead of "killing"? "Killing" means any kind of killing, especially animal killing. Otherwise you should have frankly openly used the word, "Thou shall not murder." Even if it is meant like that, so does it mean that he was preaching amongst the murderers? They are very first-class men? They are all murderers? Therefore the injunction. This kind of interpretation does not appeal to us.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Old Testament, and when Jesus was talking...

Prabhupāda: I do not know many testament, but I see in the Ten Commandments these words are there. If you want to support it by many testaments, that is, of course, your business, but we take the direct meaning, "Thou shall not kill"—the Christians should not kill. Interpretation you can give in your own way to support your business, but we see openly. If we can understand openly, there is no need of interpretation. (German)

Pater Emmanuel: No, I understand.

Prabhupāda: Why should we interpret? Interpretation is required when the things are not clear. Here it is clear, "Thou shall not kill," plainly advised.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Yes, the animal kingdom in the nature's way... Just like the grass is the food of the cow, and the cow is the food for man, but not for civilized man, religious man. The crude man. (German) (break) The perfect human being is described: śamo damas titikṣā ārjavam. Find out. (break) ...killing of animals and child, Christ's name. Then it will be perfect. I have not come to teach you, but to request you that your Christian religion prohibit this and encourages chanting of name of the Lord. So you kindly do it, that's all. (German)

Pater Emmanuel: Thank you.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. We are also chanting Christ or Kṛṣṇa, the same thing. So let us join to together and chant. If you have got objection to chant Kṛṣṇa, you chant Christ or Christo. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktis tatrārpitā niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ. He says that God has got many multi names. Any one of them you chant because each and every name has the same potency as God the person, because His name and He, there is no difference. And if we become designationless, if we give up these titles, "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," and simply chant God's name, then we become on the spiritual platform immediately, without any discrimination that "Here is Hindu, here is Muslim, here is Christian, here is white, here is black," that. We are preaching that human form of life is meant for God realization or to learn how to love God. That is real business of human being. So either do it as a Christian or as a Muslim or as a Hindu, it doesn't matter. But do this business.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: And we are practically doing that. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa—this is our business. We always keep the chanting beads just like you are keeping. Yes. Chant, that's all. Everyone should do. Where is the harm? If everyone takes this chanting... You are Christian; you have taken. Why not other Christians? They also can take. Chant. There is no loss. By chanting, there is no loss, but there is good gain, so why should we miss this opportunity of chanting? The cats and dogs, they cannot chant. But we have got human tongue, we can chant. There is no loss, but there is great gain. Now, these young boys, they are always chanting. It is only practice. It is training. These young boys and girls, they could go and act so many things frivolously, but now they have given up everything. They don't eat meat, egg, fish, no intoxication up to drinking tea or smoking, no gambling, no illicit sex and chanting. (pause) If you can cooperate, then we go to the church and chant, "Christ, Christ, Christo, Christo, Christo, or Christo, Christo." Is there any objection?

Pater Emmanuel: No.

Prabhupāda: Then we should be allowed. Instead of keeping the churches locked up...

Pater Emmanuel: On my part, I...

Prabhupāda: No, no, we are talking with you. You are a representative of Christian kind. So instead of keeping the churches locked up, why not give it us? We shall chant twenty-four hours. Actually this is fact. Many places we have purchased churches. And before our purchasing, the church was practically locked up. Nobody was going.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Hundreds and thousands of churches are locked up, or they are being used for different purpose. There are many hundreds and thousands churches, but they are not going on. So this experience... In Los Angeles we purchased one church. So it was sold because people were not coming. Now you go to the same church, and the same men, they are coming by thousands. And one Christian preach in Boston, he issued one leaflet that "These boys are our boys. Before accepting this movement, they were never coming to the church. They never inquired about God. And now they are mad after God.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: I think those who are Christian priests, they should cooperate with this movement, chant the name of Christ or Christo and stop animal killing. This is according to Bible. This is not according to my philosophy, but their Christian philosophy. Simply let them do it and see how the situation becomes nice.

Pater Emmanuel: I am very thankful to you for this...

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Room Conversation with Reverend Gordon Powell, Head of Scots Church -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Reverend Powell: Thank you. Your Grace, I was in Moscow, many years ago now. And everywhere I went in Russia, well right down to Stalingrad, as it was called then. They said, "This society is based on the principle, 'From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.' " Now, I felt that in principle that was a very fine thing because it's based on the parable of the talents and the parable of what we call the penny wage, the same wage is paid to all however long they work because they all have the same need, really. That principle, I think, is a Christian principle, I mean from that point of view it is. But I see what you were saying earlier...

Prabhupāda: The principles, as they are stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is not limited within Christian or communist or capitalist.

Reverend Powell: No.

Prabhupāda: No. The principle... Wherever there are these talented persons, he is to be considered as first class man. He does not say that "If it is found among the Hindus or amongst the Christians..." No. Anywhere. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). These guṇa, these modes of material nature, is all-pervasive. So even in India they protest. Because I am making them brāhmaṇa. My disciples, they're offered sacred thread. They're regularly made into brāhmaṇa. So the Indians, in India, they're very conservative, perverted.

Room Conversation with Reverend Gordon Powell, Head of Scots Church -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So they accuse that "Swami Mahārāja is spoiling the Hindu system of religion, because he's accepting brāhmaṇa from outside." So actually they're also not aware... Creation of God... Here God says that "I have created." So God's creation is not limited. Suppose the sun is creation of God. It is not for India or for Australia. It is for everyone. So whatever created by God, that is not monopoly of a certain class of men. Yes. This is the idea. So these people, they do not know what is the meaning of a Vaiṣṇava or brāhmaṇa. That is not limited with a certain circle or certain country or certain society. Just like Christ says, "Thou shalt not kill." This is applicable to every man. Not only that the Christians should follow. Unfortunately, Christians, they do not follow. They are killing. So how there can be religious life?

Room Conversation with Reverend Gordon Powell, Head of Scots Church -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That is not. Either you take Christian principle or Hindu principle, what is real principle, really principle, that is applicable everywhere.

Reverend Powell: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like Christ said that "Thou should be, one should be meek and humble to go to, back to home, back to..." Eh? It is not?

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So this is for everyone.

Reverend Powell: Yeah. (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not limited within the Christian community. Everyone.

Room Conversation -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: They have recognized, bona fide religious sect. (pause) So the priestly order this morning, they liked it very much.

Devotee: I think so, yes.

Prabhupāda: This gentleman, he's also a priestly...

Satsvarūpa: At seven-thirty the Catholic bishop is coming, very high-ranking in the church.

Prabhupāda: What is the time now?

Satsvarūpa: Ten after six, quarter after six. (end)

Reporters Interview -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Guest (3): Śrīla Prabhupāda, what about other religions such as Christianity and...

Prabhupāda: There is no second religion. There is only one religion. That is God consciousness. Now, as soon as you designate, "Christian," "Hindu," "Muslim," that is upādhi, designated religion. Just like you are here and you are in black coat. So if I say, "Black Mr. such and such," so to say, "Black Mr. such and such," there is no need. "Mr. such and such" is sufficient. But we have been accustomed to say like that, "Black Mr. such and such, white Mr. such and such." Similarly, religion is one, but due to our sophisticated mind, we call it "Christian religion," "Hindu religion," "Muslim religion." Why don't you come in? Why are you outside?

Devotee: I have my working clothes on, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: All right. So there cannot be... but for particular reason or circumstances we call it, but religion is one. That means to abide by the laws of God. That is religion. If you do not know what is God, what is His law, that is another thing. But the religion means to abide by the laws of God, that's all. It cannot be Hindu, Muslim, Christian. Just like the state law. So there are many persons, citizens of the state. The law is not that it is for the Christians, it is for the Jews, it is for the Negroes, it is for the white man. It is not like that. Law is the same for everyone. You can call it, "This is Negro law, this is white law, this is black law..." No. That is not very scientific. Scientific is that God is there and we are all... God is great, we are all subordinates and we have to obey the orders of God. That is religion.

Reporters Interview -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Therefore you cannot say, "Christian religion, Hindu religion, Muslim religion." Religion is religion. That's... God is neither Hindu, Muslim, Christian. God is God. God is one. We... It may be that God is one, but we understand Him from different angles of vision, and that different angles of vision may be called as Christian angle vision, the Hindu angle vision, this Jew's angle vision. But that is angle of vision. Now, just like the sun is there. Here we see it is not so bright, but you ask some Arabian friend. What is, he will say, "it is very bright." So his appreciation of the sun is different from your appreciation here. It is cloudy; it is misty. But the sun is the same. There is no such thing as Hindu religion, Muslim religion, Christian religion. It is all sophisticated. Religion is one. You must know what is God, and you must know what is order and abide by it. You are religious. That's all. We are preaching that.

Room Conversation with Bishop Kelly -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Bishop Kelly: Oh, yes. Your Grace, there is one thing I wish to ask you. Do you believe in some sort of universal but inherent deficiency in human nature, in other words, that man irrespective of his environment, irrespective of where he comes from, that he has, he is prone to evil? In the Catholic church we call that original sin. Original sin is an inherited deficiency in which man is turned away from God rather than turned towards God, and that he holds within himself a seed of failure in..., spiritually, and also a seed of unreliability so that the very makeup of man demands the enlightening touch and the helping hand of God so that he may overcome his inherent and abiding deficiency. So we hold that that is the nature of things, that man... It's not just a good thing or an advisable thing that man reaches out to and for God, but it is a necessary thing, that God not merely is there to improve upon what you might say would be a natural goodness of man, but man has a natural deficiency he needs God to overcome. And as he overcomes, of course, he progresses further and he is enriched by God. But we hold that very clearly.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in one of the Vedic literature, that:

nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-prema sādhya kabhu naya

śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya

(Cc. madhya 22.107)

The inherent principle is eternally a fact, his obedience to God. But artificially he has covered it, artificially. The God consciousness is there in everyone, but by so-called material advancement, he has forgotten. He has his obedience to God, natural. Even the aborigines in the forest, they also submit to the manifestation of God's different energies. As soon as there is some lightning and there is thunderbolt, they immediately... They offer obeisances. As soon as they see a big sea, ocean, they offer obeisances. So that is inherent. But due to the material association it is covered.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: ...these are all misconceptions because I am not this body. I am spirit soul. When the spirit soul goes away, then where is the distinction? Suppose in hospital some Hindu dies or some Muslim dies, some Christian die, the spirit... They are stacked together as useless matter. Is it not? There is no distinction there now, Hindu, Muslim, Christian, white, black. Now it is dead body, put aside. Eh? So, but when living, when the spirit soul is there, they are dividing, this designation. So this knowledge that so long the spirit soul is there in the body, it is important. As soon as the soul is gone, it is useless. But people are giving more stress on the body than on the active principle, living force, what is there. There is no study. Suppose you are all scientists.

Morning Walk at Marine del Rey -- July 13, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is the... It is actually rational discrimination. The Christians, they thought, "Now these Englishmen, they'll make Hindu religion very prominent." Because it is a fact. If we introduce such three-four celebrations, then Christianity will be finished. But what is there? Christianity, there is nothing. Simply some dry words. And actually, they're seeing, nobody's coming to the church. So in this way, if they some, relish something better, then whatever is there, that will be finished, also. Therefore in London we wanted to purchase a church.

Morning Walk at Marine del Rey -- July 13, 1974, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: The Catholic Church is a very wealthy institution, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bahulāśva: The Catholic Church is very wealthy. They don't want to lose their...

Prabhupāda: So what will wealth do? If it does not appeal to the people, what wealth will do? In Chicago also, the Christians came with some wooden signboard. You have seen?

Bali Mardana: No, I didn't see.

Prabhupāda: "It is through Christ. It is through..." They were showing me. So that has been criticized by the newspapermen, that "Nobody cares for you." (laughter) Yes.

Morning Walk at Marine del Rey -- July 13, 1974, Los Angeles:

Bali Mardana: Yes. Just like in the San Francisco paper they admitted, "This is the most popular festival."

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. San Francisco also. Fifteen thousand people attended my lecture silently. So they are seeing now there is something in this movement, and if this movement, it is allowed to go on without any objection, then Christianity will be finished. That is the conspiracy behind it. That lecture is recorded? The, which I gave in the, that society of the priests and...

Satsvarūpa: The fathers?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: Yes, I...

Prabhupāda: So you can hear that lecture, how it was. They appreciated so much. We have no disrespect for Christianity. (pause) At least, expose our so-called Indian ambassador and others... Approach them, that "Help us. What is this? What for you are here?" Even they do not allow by agitation, make the movement very important. Make profit this side or that side. That is businessman. The businessman makes profit when the price is going down and when the price is going up. They make their profit. That is businessman. Just like our Tripurāri, he goes on selling his book in any condition. He finds out some means how to sell in this condition. This is intelligence, how to deal in different circumstances and make profit. That is brain. And if you make condition, "If these conditions are there, then I can make business," that is foolishness.