Chemist (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"alchemist" |"chemist" |"chemist's" |"chemists"

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, that is cheating. That is not teaching, that is cheating. Just like the scientists said, "There was a chunk, and the creation took place, perhaps..." What is this? Simply cheating. It is not teaching, it is cheating.

Bob: Let me say what else you said this morning that was interesting. I asked him about miracles, and Prabhupāda said that only a fool would believe in miracles because... Let us say you are a child and an adult lifts this table. That's a miracle. Or you're a chemist, and you combine acid and base and make smoke, an explosion or whatever. To somebody ignorant, that's a miracle. And for everything there's a process. And so when you see a miracle, it's just ignorance of the process. So that only a fool would believe in miracles, and, you correct me if I say wrong...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Bob: ...that when Jesus came, the people then were somewhat more ignorant and needed miracles as aid. Was that... I wasn't sure if that's quite what you said.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. Miracle means ignorant.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That I was explaining the other day. Where? In Madras, or where? "Who has supplied these chemicals?"

Śyāmasundara: Ah, in Madras.

Prabhupāda: I asked one chemist that according to chemical formula, hydrogen and oxygen mixed, it becomes water. Is it not?

Bob: That's true.

Prabhupāda: Now, this vast water in the Atlantic Ocean and Pacific Ocean, how much chemicals were required?

Bob: How much?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: Just like we are doing some business, Spiritual Sky. That is small business but they are managing very nicely. This boy, Svarūpa Dāmodara, he is a great scientist, doctor in chemistry. He is trying to explain Kṛṣṇa through chemistry. Similarly, you can try to serve Kṛṣṇa through engineering. You can serve Kṛṣṇa by business administration. Svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, "Everyone can serve by his own work." Kṛṣṇa is not stereotyped. Everything is Kṛṣṇa. So every department can be utilized for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction. And if Kṛṣṇa is satisfied, then your talent in the particular department of knowledge is perfect. Then it attains perfection. Saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). Saṁsiddhi means perfection. And what is that perfection? That Kṛṣṇa will be pleased: "Yes, you are very good engineer." "You are very good business administrator." "You are very good chemist." So this is our philosophy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We do not say, "This is bad. This is good." Everything is good, provided it is utilized for Kṛṣṇa's service. This is our philosophy. So as Kṛṣṇa is all-pervading, our philosophy is also all-embracing. But as soon as one comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness platform, he must be free from sinful activities. (aside) Aiye. (Hindi) Kṛṣṇa is... (aside) Jaya. Kṛṣṇa is pure, apāpa-viddham. So we must be pure to approach Kṛṣṇa. Just like if we want to enter fire we must be also highly tempered, almost like fire, same degree. Apāpa-viddham. Pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān. So we should give up sinful activities and apply our energy for Kṛṣṇa's service. Then our life is perfect. That we are preaching. You are from which province?

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- March 17, 1973, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Bombay light, yes. Bombay light, that is during my householder life. I opened an office in Bombay for my business and... The (indistinct) Gauḍīya Maṭha was established by us. I am one of them. Śrīdhara Mahārāja also. And we made two parties for begging, collecting alms. Śrīdhara Mahārāja, myself and Gosvāmī Mahārāja. That time he was Atula, Atulacandra Gosvāmī. So I took them to some of my friends, chemist friends, doctors friends. So I collected about five hundred rupees to this. Śrīdhara Mahārāja would speak, I introduced, and Gosvāmī, at that time Gosvāmī Mahārāja would canvass (laughter). In this way three combined together, in one day or two days we... At that time five hundred rupees was (laughing) big amount.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Big sum.

Prabhupāda: Big sum, yes. So Gosvāmī Mahārāja very much appreciated, and he began to speak highly about me that "Abhay Babu is so expert, he has got so many friends, he has collected so many... So why does he... He should be the Maṭha in-charge." In this way. "Why should he not live with us? Why he's living separately?" In this way. So Prabhupāda, Mahārāja, Śrīdhara may remember it (laughing), he said, "It is better to live separately from you people, and he will do the necessity in due course of time." So I could not understand what Śrīla Prabhupāda meant by that. So his inclination, blessings, were always upon me although (indistinct), but he was so kind.

Morning Walk -- May 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Oh, then what kind of scientist he is? So they know that you are theologist?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In the department everybody knows. (laughter) There is one theoretical chemist. His name is Max Muster (?). He is from Germany. He is a theoretical chemist. Once I invited him to come to Los Angeles to talk with Prabhupāda. He agreed, and but then he told me that he will think for one day whether he will come or not. Then next day he told me that he is afraid. "I cannot come because I am afraid that I will be put on the walls." (laughter) But he is very philosophical. He believes in God. He has some... That's why if you talk with him, very nice.

Prabhupāda: So that is also nice. We are not afraid of meeting any philosopher or scientist, but they are afraid. That is our credit. All scientists know that they are on the wrong basis, but because they are scientists, they say like that. That is their position. They do not believe in their own statement. Therefore he said, "I do not know."

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So why this should be tolerated? Don't be a doctor of chemist like one of them. Be really doctor of chemist. They must accept. This is the basic, I mean, platform of scientific knowledge. Antavanta ime dehā nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ (BG 2.18). That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā. What lesson you have taken from Bhagavad-gītā? Antavanta ime dehā. "This material body is perishable, antavantaḥ." Nityasya uktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ: "But the life within this body, that is nitya, eternal." This whole cosmic manifestation is like that, the big body, gigantic body of Viṣṇu, external energy, display of external energy. Make plan how to meet them, how to defeat them. Catch them on their throat. If they say, "I do not know," then "Why you have become professor? Why do you become professor? Why do you become scientist? If you do not know, you learn from me. You become my disciple. I'll teach you. You learn it scrutinizingly with all your knowledge. We shall teach you. Why you evade?" Just the other professor, he does not like to come. Other scientist, he told?

Brahmānanda: The German scientist, he didn't want to come.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Radhakrishnan was there, the president. But ultimately, he could not walk. He fell down in the water.

Prabhupāda: And what about the money?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I don't know. He was beaten or something. They said he missed something.

Prabhupāda: That's like you, chemist, just missing something, "In future we shall do it." It is the same thing. And these fools, Dr. Radhakrishnan and company, they are so fools that so many animals they are walking on the sea, "I am going to see another man." Just see, how they are fools. What is their credit? The sea lark. They call sea lark? They go very nicely. Why do they not see that? He is animal, he is, another is an animal.

Kṛṣṇa-Kāntī: Birds can float and they can fly.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So Dr. Radhakrishnan was a big rascal.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But I could not believe by that time. I said, "It cannot be possible."

Prabhupāda: No, it is possible. It is possible. If one has practiced yoga system, He can become light. To walk over the water means to become very light, like cotton swab. Then he can walk. He can fly also. In Siddha-lokas, the inhabitants there, they fly in the sky. From one planet to another planet they go by flying. There is Siddha-loka planet. Therefore they are called Siddha-loka, means they have all perfection of this yogic mystic power.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Material is already there. Just like what you are manufacturing. You are... Already everything is there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the chemists or the scientists, what they're thinking is, there are chemical elements, which are the materials necessary for staying the spirit soul within the..., so long as he is within the material world. So they're saying that these material elements—carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen—the main elements, somehow they combine together forming the living units, but our point is the chemicals are there, but in order to start the real nice house, the spirit soul has to enter within these chemical elements.

Prabhupāda: Yes. These chemical elements will already help him, by nature's way. Just like you put a seed on the earth. So other things necessary for fructifying that seed, that is already there. They will come to help it. That is already there. Just like the living entity in seed form is impregnated within the womb of the mother. The mother has got within the womb all ingredients. Body will develop. On account of the presence of the living entity, by the laws of nature, everything is there. A dog is forming dog's body, man is forming man's body. Why? Because everything is there. A cat is forming cat's body in the womb of the... Yathā yonir yathā bījam. You haven't got to search out. It is already there.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: They have to have a human body in order to enjoy that philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Their philosophy is that there is only one-God. So cats and dogs, that is God's līlā. That is their rascal philo... God is making pastimes, līlā, by becoming a dog. That is their rascal philosophy. Daridra-nārāyaṇa. Vivekananda's philosophy. Nārāyaṇa has become daridra, poor. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (pause) So with chemists we have no quarrel if they begin from light. They're beginning from darkness. That is our contention. We say, "Begin from light." And they say, "No, begin from darkness." Because they're in darkness. One who is in the darkness, from darkness, if he goes to light, he thinks that the darkness is the beginning.

Paramahaṁsa: In comparison, they always compare.

Prabhupāda: No, no comparison. It is practical. Suppose you have been in the darkness for millions of years and when you come to the light you think that "Oh, from darkness the light has come." Light, when it becomes dimmed, that is darkness. Not that (from) darkness, light has come.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says, "You fully surrender. I give you full protection." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). He will give you full intelligence. (break) ...these facts in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That will be our great success when the scientific world will admit. Let them admit simply. Then our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will (be) great success. You simply admit, "Yes, there is God and mystic power." Then our movement is very successful. And that's a fact. Simply talking like a nonsense amongst the nonsense, that is not a very great credit. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). One blind man is leading other blind man. What is the value of such? They are all blind. And so long one remains blind and rascal, he does not accept God. This is the test. As soon as we see that he does not accept God, he is blind, rascal, fool, whatever you can call. Take it for granted, however, whatever he may be. He's a rascal. On this principle we can challenge so many big, big chemist, philosopher, whoever comes to us. We say, "You are demon." The other chemist came, you brought him, that Indian?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Hm. Chouri.(?)

Prabhupāda: Chouri. (laughing) So I told him that "You are a demon." But he was not angry. He admitted. And all his argument was refuted. Perhaps you remember.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, in fact, he was telling that "Kṛṣṇa didn't give me all the procedures, steps, how to do the experiment." He was saying like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why shall I give you? You are a rascal, you are against Kṛṣṇa, why Kṛṣṇa will give you facility? If you are against Kṛṣṇa and you want the credit without Kṛṣṇa, that's not possible. You must be submissive first of all. Then Kṛṣṇa will give you all facilities. Just like we dare to face any chemist, any scientist, any philosopher. Why? On the strength of Kṛṣṇa, we believe that "There is Kṛṣṇa. When I shall talk with him, Kṛṣṇa will give give me intelligence." This is the basics. Otherwise, from qualification, standard, they are very much qualified. We are common laymen before them. But how do we challenge them? Because we know. Just like a small child He can challenge a very big man because he knows, "My father is there." He is catching the hand of the father, and he's sure that "Nobody can do anything to me."

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: So as so far the differences, there is no difference, because just like this body: the body has got different parts—the fingers, the hands, the eyes, the legs, so many different—but the whole purpose is to serve the body. Either with the finger or eyes or hands or legs, the whole purpose is centered on the soul of the complete whole body. Similarly, Bhāgavata says that whatever you may—you may be scientist, you may be philosopher, you may be an engineer, you may be a poet, you may be sociologist, politician, whatever you may be-their purpose should be avicyutaḥ arthaḥ. Avicyutaḥ means infallible purpose. Avicyutaḥ arthaḥ kavibhih nirūpitaḥ. "It has been decided by great learned scholar," says "all of them should be engaged in glorifying the Supreme." Avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam. The scientists, from their angle of vision, should describe the glory of the Lord: how this biology is working by the manipulation of the Supreme Lord. Similarly chemists, physicists, engineers, politicians, there are different departments, but all of them should join together, congregation, and from their different scientific point, angle of vision, they should glorify the Supreme Lord.

Room Conversation With Three College Students -- July 11, 1973, London:

Student (3):. To be Kṛṣṇa conscious, one needs faith that Kṛṣṇa exists, and...

Prabhupāda: Not only "Kṛṣṇa exists," "What is my relationship with Kṛṣṇa? What is my duty in that relationship?" everything.

Revatīnandana: Just see. Who can produce this? Who can produce something like this? Supposing you take your best chemists and engineers,

Student (3): Well, you must call it God, mustn't you.

Revatīnandana: And you see who can produce, right? They cannot produce anything with this texture, this nice smell, you see?

Prabhupāda: He knows it.

Student (3): It doesn't smell.

Revatīnandana: So many persons can make an artificial flower that's not as nice as that one, but they cannot reproduce that. And then we say that Kṛṣṇa is the Personality of Godhead, who is full of knowledge, full of beauty, full of power. With full knowledge, beauty and power...

Prabhupāda: Because He has got full knowledge, He knows how to... Now, this flower has come from earth, and other flower has come also from the earth. But the fragrance is within the earth. But you cannot take the fragrance from the earth. You do not know. But Kṛṣṇa is taking. Just see. Therefore His knowledge is perfect. Omnipotent, omniscient. He knows how to take. He knows the process. So many flowers are coming.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1973, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Useless. Avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpitaḥ. It is already taken. Nirūpita means there is no argument. It is already concluded.

Guest (1): Your business is not to prove or disprove, but to glorify Him.

Prabhupāda: Yes. By your knowledge. If you are scientist, you are chemist, through chemical challenge you try to glorify the Supreme Lord. If you are physicist, from physical point of view, try to explain. If you are scientist... Anyway, because ultimate... Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). Any knowledge, that is... You have to approve the Supreme. That is real perfect knowledge. And at the present moment men of knowledge they are rejecting. Because they cannot explain, they are rejecting. They do not bother.

Guest (1): Modern science has cleared the deck very much for religion. They are not so dogmatic as the old scientists used to be.

Prabhupāda: What do they say now?

Guest (1): Well, you see, the modern scientific discoveries have led to the stage at which the science can no more say that religion is humbug. Now they say, "Well, we do not know. Honestly speaking, that is the position," they say.

Prabhupāda: That is good.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think it was Acarya Prafullacandra Raya, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that starting of chemical industry in the Bengali...?

Prabhupāda: Acarya Prafullacandra Raya was one of the director and this K.C. Bose was a managing director. Actually the life was given by Dr. Karttikacandra Bose to Bengal Chemical. But because Prafullacandra Raya was a famous chemist and he was attached to it, therefore his name become famous.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh.

Yaśomatīnandana: Also you mentioned Mullik family in Calcutta to be your grandparents or someone?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yaśomatīnandana: That is also mentioned in the Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Yes. One of the members was our relative. So we are staying with them, these Mulliks. He had no sons. So we were staying, some relatives. Therefore I was born in that family, although they are our distant relations. But when I was, my father was staying there, I was born. These Mulliks they are also De. Their original title is De. This Mullik is their title.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Continue forever?

Prajāpati: No.

Prabhupāda: Then? He'll die. That is another thing. He'll die. Why he'll die? What is that condition? If you say, "chemical condition," now, as chemist, if you say, "The chemical condition has changed," we'll reply, "No chemical condition has changed." So produce life. No chemical condition has changed because life will come out immediately. So many germs and worms, they will come out. So where is the chemical condition of producing life is changed? How can you say? But that life is not coming. That Mr. John, his life is not coming. Therefore he is an individual soul. Otherwise the chemical condition is there. Otherwise how these germs and worms are coming out? But Mr. John is not coming. Therefore it is conclusion that "This is individual soul. He has gone, but he is not coming." But other living beings are coming out.

Morning Walk -- December 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (laughing) It is not like that, but we can say, wherever Kṛṣṇa topics are there, it is as good as Vaikuṇṭha or Vṛndāvana. (break) ...prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ. By association, bodhayantaḥ parasparam. These things are there in the Bhagavad-gītā. (break) ...enjoy and be satisfied in the association of devotees. (break) ...article on the subject of "Kṛṣṇa, the supreme scientist," and let us publish it. That article is very nice. If he writes such articles, the conclusion, if Kṛṣṇa, the supreme scientist, Kṛṣṇa, the supreme economist, Kṛṣṇa, the supreme philosopher, Kṛṣṇa, the supreme chemist, Kṛṣṇa—everything, the conclusion is Supreme, Kṛṣṇa—then his activity is fulfilled. He becomes successful. The conclusion should be Kṛṣṇa. That's it. Whatever he may be. He may be a musician, he may be artist, he may be physicist, he may be chemist, he may be scientist—whatever he may be, if he writes article on the subject matter and concludes that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme, then preach, then he is successful. That's all. Just like you are theologian. You write theology and prove, "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord." Then your attempt is successful. (break) We are trying to understand the Supreme, so therefore, as soon as you come to the Supreme, you are successful. (break) ...uttama-śloka-guṇānuvarṇanam. This is success. With your talent, you simply come to the conclusion that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. That's all. So our business is, because we are neither scientist nor musician, nothing of the sort, layman, we have simply said, "Kṛṣṇa Supreme." That's all.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: Well, just like if a big tornado comes and kills a thousand people...

Prabhupāda: Yes, because on account of their sins. Because they do not know. Why government hangs one person? Is there government discrepancy? When government says, the judge says, "This man must be hanged," is it discrepancy? It is justice.

Karandhara: Well, just like that one Indian chemist Svarūpa Dāmodara brought. He said that philosophy is killing India. People just sit by and watch each other die instead of trying to help each other.

Prabhupāda: No, that he is rascal. No Indian is dying. We are going three times, four times India. Who is dying? Everyone is dying natural death. This is all propaganda, to make their position secure. That's all. I have never seen anyone dying for starvation. I have pointed out so many times that fifty years ago this class of men lying on the footpath... Now the foodgrains has risen price fifty times. Still he is living. Still he is living. But he has to live in that condition. Although he must have increased his income, otherwise how he is purchasing foodstuff, fifty times? But in spite of his increasing income, he must live like that. Apart from India. Why, in your country or in Europe, so many hippies are lying? Why? They have no want.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: So who supplied the chemicals?

Bali-mardana: Within the dob?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bali-mardana: The chemist. The supreme chemist.

Prabhupāda: So that is our theologist's... What is their explanation?

Bali-mardana: They say the water is from the ground. By the roots, it is drawn up to the dob.

Prabhupāda: I understand that. But the chemical is being supplied from the root?

Bali-mardana: Yes. Just like when there is no water they say the tree will die.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bali-mardana: When there is no rain, the plant life cannot live. So they say that the water is drawn from the root to nourish the plant. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...water is drawn, then the question will be how the water is drawn?

Bali-mardana: Well, each tree has a system of, er, system of like tubes through which the water is drawn up.

Prabhupāda: Then as soon as there is system, system is done by somebody.

Morning Walk -- April 29, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That is, means rascal. He does not see Kṛṣṇa's wonderful. If you want to see wonderful things, why don't you see the more wonderful things? But they are foolish; they are captivated with small wonderful things. That means less intelligent. Just like small children, they will be amazed by seeing small wonderful things, but his father will not be. What is the amazement, wonderful thing, Sai Baba has done? If he is creator of gold, then why he is doing business of incense? You know that? He has a big incense business exactly like us. He can create gold? Why there is incense business? (break) Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to give to His mother some gold when there was need of money. "Mother, I got this gold. So you can utilize it." The mother would think that "We are poor men, we have no gold. Wherefrom this boy brings gold?" So he (she) was doubtful because he (she) was thinking, "My son is mad, sometimes crazy." So he (she) would go, "Is it real gold? Just see." Then. "Yes, it is real gold." "Hm, how He got it?" You see. (break) ...many yogis, they make such gold for meeting their expenditures. Yes. Still in India they know how to make gold from copper. Yes. The process is they will drink mercury at night, and in the morning they will urine on the copper coins. And then, after some hours, the copper coins taken and put into the fire, it becomes gold. And it is scientific that some molecules of mercury, if mixed with copper, it is gold. Gold is combination of mercury and copper. But the people cannot mix it. They have tried. That is called alchemist. They tried to mix it. Because they do not know the process, as soon as mercury is put into fire, it immediately goes out. You melt copper, and in hot copper, if you put mercury, it will not melt together. Immediately it will throw away. So some of the yogis, they know. They digest copper, er, mercury, and it comes in the form, urine. And then the copper is put there. There is an interaction, and then put into fire. It becomes gold.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: What is that freedom?

Yogeśvara: Illicit principles. Sinful principles.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...fig, there are thousands of seeds. And each seed contains a tree like that. And there are thousands of fruits, figs. Where is that chemist who can prepare such figs? One, in Delhi, when our festival was going on, we invited a big chemist. He admitted that "Our chemical advance, scientific advancement is like this." He explained very nicely. You were present?

Yogeśvara: Where?

Prabhupāda: In Delhi? He said that a man who has learned the art to, what is called, barking like dog, and people will go to see, purchasing ticket, ten rupees, twenty rupees, how the man is barking like a dog. And there are so many dogs barking. They won't see. This is our advancement. If a man has artificially learned how to bark, they'll go to see by paying fees. And the natural barking, they don't care. So these rascals are like that. They're trying to manufacture life. And so many life is coming by nature's process, millions and millions, that is no credit. And he's trying, utopian, he'll create life by chemical combination, he's given all credit, Nobel Prize: "Oh, here is a man." This is rascaldom. So what credit you'll get. Suppose if you can manufacture a man or an animal in the laboratory, where is your credit? There are many millions and millions are coming automatically. We are trying to give credit to Kṛṣṇa who is making all this creation.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1974, Geneva:

Satsvarūpa: Yesterday you said when one becomes initiated by a bona fide spiritual master, his body changes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: Even if he was mleccha, he can become brāhmaṇa.

Yogeśvara: Actually, the chemists also say that there are four types of blood, A, AB, O, and something like that. They give it four names.

Prabhupāda: And according to Hindu system, the marriage was taking place finding, examining the girl's constitution and the boy's constitution so that there may not be disruption. Everything was there.

Yogeśvara: The Vedic system is so scientific.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. That is human civilization. That is Āryan civilization. Vedic civilization means Āryan.

Yogeśvara: Hitler also wanted to produce a pure breed of Āryans, but artificially. He just said anyone who is German-born, they are the pure Āryans.

Prabhupāda: But so much freedom in sex, how the blood can be pure? (break)

Yogeśvara: ...but Kṛṣṇa-prasādam?

Prabhupāda: Then he's neutral always. He's not affected by all these qualities.

Morning Walk at Marina del Rey -- July 14, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They make some food and it is sold. What is called, that? They make some cakes by soaking in the water.

Devotee: Soybean?

Prabhupāda: Not soybean. They make some foodstuff. In India also they are making now. When I was in Ahmedabad, guest of one Mr. Patel, his business is to collect this. And he's a chemist also. And prepare some food. And he's got good business.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: One of the plans for science in the future is the food from the ocean.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Food from the ocean is already there—fishes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, not only fishes. They're trying to investigate more.

Prabhupāda: Fish is not sufficient?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, fish is not enough.

Kṛṣṇa-kānti: They're never satisfied with the foods they take.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Investigation is going on about the availability of food in the ocean.

Jayatīrtha: Also. They want to recycle the stool. There's one big plan to make a big city, and then the stool is recycled, and sixty percent can be again re-eaten.

Umāpati: I heard that in Russia they're already making butter from stool.

Jayatīrtha: Because the body doesn't efficiently take all the nutrients.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They can make butter. This market butter is sometimes coming from stool. (laughter)

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1975, Tokyo:

Prabhupāda: Teletype, yes. You push here "a" and the other end the "a" will immediately strike. There is no need of another person typing. But how it is being done? There is electronic arrangement by higher scientist. Not that, ordinary typewriter will not, no. Suppose if you keep one typewriter at your brother's place and you push it here, will it strike there? (laughter) Why? Because there is no arrangement. There is no arrangement. So these are common sense but the rascals will not understand. That without a touch of the living entity nothing can be done. The supreme living entity is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is said mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ suyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). "I am the cause of the material energy working." Parasya śaktiḥ vividhaiva śruyate. There is parasya śaktiḥ, now who can explain how this flower has come into existence? That is same thing. The energy of Kṛṣṇa is working. Just like you want to paint one nice flower, so you have to take the brush and the color and you have to endeavor. Not that automatically coming, this beautiful flower. So how do you think this beautiful flower has come automatically? This is foolishness. There is also the brush, the paint, but it is so perfect that just like you cannot see how the other typewriter is striking. You cannot say it is automatically striking. There is arrangement. But this arrangement you do not understand. Therefore you are foolish, you are thinking that this typewriter is striking automatically. It is not automatically. Here the other typewriter it is stroken and there is electric arrangement and it is striking. So you have to understand like... That is sura. And asura, they will say, "No, there is no God. It is taking automatically, it is going on," This is foolishness. The asura means foolish, first-class foolish, that's all. Why it has become so? That is explained here. That they do not know how to behave, nāpi cācāraḥ. Na satyaṁ teṣu vidyate, neither they know what is the actual truth. They are defective themself and they are explaining in the defective way that so many rascal chemists they say that the chemical evolution is the cause of life. What is this nonsense? Chemical evolution, you get the chemicals and make a experiment and produce life. Then your proposal is all right that by chemical evolution there is life. No, that is not possible. You have got all the chemicals. Why don't you revive a dead man by injecting chemicals again into life, where is your power? So why do you talk foolishly like that? This should be challenged that "You are foolish number one." Actually it so happened in California. One big chemist he came there to lecture the chemical evolution, by mixing of chemical life has come into existence.

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Professor: May I ask a personal question?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Professor: I heard that you were a chemist before.

Prabhupāda: I was not chemist, but I was manager in a big chemical factory. Therefore, automatically, I learned something of chemist. And later on I started my own chemical factory.

Professor: You were belonging to Bengal?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Professor: And you were having also a guru there?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, certainly. Without guru how can you...

Professor: Yes, naturally.

Prabhupāda: He is my guru. Show the photo.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: He asked him, that rascal chemist, that "If I give you the chemicals, can you manufacture life?" That time he said, "No, that I cannot say." Why do you say like that? In the beginning, in New York, that store front, the Satsvarūpa is with..., and Hayagrīva and... And you chant simply. You were also there. So this chanting is proving efficient. That is Vedic knowledge. It is not theory. Our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not theory or mental speculation. It is a fact. So therefore it is said,

guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya,

ār nā koriho mane āśā **

So whatever little success I have got, it is only for this reason. My Guru Mahārāja said that "You go and preach whatever you learned in English language." That's all. So I came here with this faith, that "My Guru Mahārāja said. I must be successful." I did not show any jugglery to you, gold-making jugglery. Where is my gold? I came with forty rupees first.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Guest (2): So the tamasi.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He has no value. I have seen one doctor of chemistry—he could not get any service—in Allahabad. His name was Raghunātha Mitri(?), Dr. Raghunātha Mitri. So he was living at the cost of his father-in-law and making some soap and going to the shop for selling, doctor. That means he could not get any service. Now his independence was to manufacture some soap as ordinary man is doing. But he was chemist; he could not do anything. He could manufacture some soap. So in spite of high education, because he could not get a good job, he had no value. Just like the dogs. The dogs, if they do not get a master, nice, then street dog. He is lean and thin and no shelter, no...

Guest (1): That is what is happening...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: That is an art.

Rūpānuga: Simply copying what is there.

Prabhupāda: Just like a good cook is a good chemist. He knows how to mix up the maśālās and ghee and makes very tasteful thing. So you can call him a good cook. The chemistry is nothing but mixture of different chemicals. That's all. There is oil. There is alkaline. You mix it very proportionately, and soap comes out, very useful.

Mādhava: Prabhupāda, how can we explain to the scientists how gross matter is being produced from subtle matter and ultimately from life, from consciousness. Like if a scientist were looking at the creation occurring...

Prabhupāda: Every scientist knows that originally the sky, the sound, and from the sound, then, what is? Air? What is the process of creation from subtle to gross?

Rūpānuga: First the ether produces sound.

Prabhupāda: Yes. From sound there is air, from air there is fire; from fire there is water; from water there is earth. This is earth, water, air, fire. And the sound, transcendental sound... As it is said in the Bible, "Let there be creation." And in the Vedas also, it is said, sa aikṣata: "He glanced over." That is to be found out, how from sound, from ether, sound is coming... I think that is already in the science. Is it not?

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1975, Mayapur:

Pañcadraviḍa: Because in the class that... I asked that question because we're saying, well, there's no question of creating life. We're agreeing that the soul already exists. But can the scientists... If a scientist claims he'll create the conditions in which a soul will enter, do we accept that premise, and I thought, "No, because that's giving them much too much ground," that if we say that, then by their definition, they can say, "I am creating life. I don't want to argue over the existence or not of the soul, but I'll arrange all the chemicals for you."

Prabhupāda: Where is that chemist? Where is that chemical combination that, I mean to say, grows a soul, generate a soul? Even if you have got the chemicals, you cannot do it.

Pañcadraviḍa: Whether it's true or not, somebody was claiming to me that the scientists are creating primitive forms of life like enzymes and things like this because enzymes show... Enzymes are produced by life. They show certain living tendencies. The scientists claim they are able to create enzymes.

Prabhupāda: So what is the credit? The enzymes are being naturally created, and the soul is there. So what is his credit? The arrangement is already there automatically, the secretion between the man and the woman, and they mix together, emulsified, and the situation is created, and the soul comes there. The soul is injected through the semina of the man. It is already arranged. So what is your credit?

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1975, Honolulu:

Indian man: This is that same one. They give red, different flowers.

Prabhupāda: This is also African?

Indian man: No, they have in India this tree also. That gives red flowers?

Prabhupāda: And it was in a small seed. Prepare such seed, you chemist. How strong!

Indian man: No, here, from that tree.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Devotee (1): It says, they put it in mattresses and pillows a long time ago. They used that for their bedding. It's called (?)

Indian man: We have also in India.

Prabhupāda: We make thread out of it. It is called cotton wool. We can sit down here? (break) ...Zamindar, very rich man, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. (break) ...cars, but where their men?

Bali-mardana: There is a Buddhist temple here, Chinese Buddhist temple, and I think the cars are for that. And some of the keepers. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...be superintend when the garden opens. (break) ... saw the question, but he cannot answer. So he began to write words like this, whole book, and the examiners saw that it has no meaning. But he has coined so many words. They said, "Very intelligent." They passed him. (laughter) Now, "upperfluous." You don't find all these words in dictionary. "Upperfluous rain of agua was dogbendikulali gondolized by lacticism of wine." It appears very gramatically nice composed, but it has no meaning. So he coined such words, a full book. Because he could not answer. So the time was there. He began to coin words. And he was passed, for his intelligence. Similarly, these people are putting words which you cannot understand, and they are getting their salaries, that's all. (break) ...invent something, that they will not die, there will be no disease, there will be no old age. That is something. What is this nonsense, simply speculating? (break) The cloud is standing there. It is not systematic. Then why the gravitation is not working? There are millions and millions tons of water. Why the gravitation is not working? The law of gravitation, why it is not working? Don't work with a rod.(?) What is the answer? They are not systematic changing. Why? Why the gravitation is not working, fall down? They are heavy, very heavy when they, what is called... Agitation. What is called?

Śrutakīrti: Friction.

Morning Walk -- July 19, 1975, San Francisco:

Paramahaṁsa: They are experimenting.

Prabhupāda: They have not come to success. So why not make experiment in the laboratory?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We should do it.

Jayatīrtha: Perhaps Svarūpa Dāmodara can do it. Svarūpa Dāmodara is a chemist.

Paramahaṁsa: I have a lot of tin and brass.

Prabhupāda: Brass you have got?

Paramahaṁsa: Would you like?

Prabhupāda: No, you add mercury, then give. The kāvirājī medicines, they mix mercury and sulphur, and then tin, and some other medicine, that make makaradhvaja, and it looks like gold. Svarṇa-sindhura, the name is svarṇa-sindhura, "vermillion of gold." That is a medicine. It looks like gold. The some medicine, they mix mercury and sulphuric acid first of all, and then with some other thing. Mercury cannot be directly heated. It must be mixed with sulphuric acid.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Nectar of Devotion and the Śrī Īśopaniṣad. These books are actually being used in undergraduate courses. These are some of the recommendations, see, offered as an undergraduate course. Mostly... This book is very, very interesting, this, "the complete science of bhakti-yoga." This explains scientifically the science of devotional service to God. That devotional service which is not practiced with reference to the Vedic literatures is simply a disturbance, just as if some chemist walked into an English laboratory or some foreign language laboratory and tried to do something, and he had no knowledge. So the same way, we should try to understand the science of devotional service from the authorities, so that it's not just...it doesn't become simply a disturbance in society. People lose faith in God that way. Śrī Īśopaniṣad also has the same format once again. The Sanskrit, transliteration, word for word. This is a very nice entrance book into Vedic understanding. This is the most important of the Upaniṣads. Many other books we have like that, paperbacks and hardbound. This is being used in many universities in America.

Prabhupāda: Temple University, it is a study book.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: After matriculation they go to the office.

Prabhupāda: No matriculation. They engage good paṇḍitas, good teachers, and teach them at home, and, as soon as they are able to read and write and see accounts, immediately engage in the business. They know that "We can purchase technologist. Why shall I waste time for so-called education, Ph.D., D.A.C.?" You have seen that Ph.D. in our Vṛndāvana? Useless. So many Ph.D.'s are useless. Cannot earn their livelihood. I have seen. So what is the use? Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta. Because one has become.... I have seen one Ph.D. chemist in Allahabad. He could not get any job. Then he was manufacturing soap at home and taking it in cycle and going to the market just like ordinary coolie. These so-called educationists, unless they get a good job, they are useless street dog. Useless. They cannot earn even livelihood. Therefore śāstra says, "Don't try for these things, to increase your economic position. This is already destined. You cannot increase or decrease. Whatever you are destined, you must get it. Try to get Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Brian Singer: How do you awake that consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Then.... Therefore the books are there. The first of all, you have to understand, "Whether I am this body or I am different from body?" This is the first instruction. If you are.... If you are human being, we should analyze the body. We are now scientist, chemist, physicist. Analyze the body. What is the difference between dead body and living body? The dead body is there. The son is crying, "My father is gone." Where your father is gone? He is lying on the bed. Why you say that "Father is gone"? Hm? What is the answer. The father is lying on the bed, the same coat, pant, and bedding, and everything is there. Why you say that "My father is gone"? Where he is gone? He is lying there. Why do you say he is gone?

Brian Singer: We normally say he's dead.

Prabhupāda: No, no, death.... What is the distinction between death and life? You are now dressing with these coat, pants, and this same body, same hair. Now, something will be minus—you'll be called dead. What is that something? That you do not know. Eh?

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Devotee (2): We can see practically everyone understands that if they want to be a chemist, they study under another chemist, or a doctor goes to study from some doctor. Why they don't approach a spiritual master for religious knowledge? Why do they think they can do it by themselves?

Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness.

Kīrtanānanda: That idea has been encouraged by rascals.

Prabhupāda: Just like if you want a son, you must have a wife. If one says "No, without wife, I'll get a son," this is nonsense. Is it possible?

Kuladri: But Śrīla Prabhupāda, without any desire we have been given the heaviest guru. How is that possible?

Prabhupāda: Hmm? Without any desire?

Kuladri : Without our knowing about Kṛṣṇa, having any desire to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, still we have been given the knowledge.

Prabhupāda: I don't follow.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: This is the proof. Consciousness developed and the symptoms are there. Just like we are studying this. Our consciousness is developed. This discussion is not possible by the animals, although it has got the all life symptom. Therefore because our consciousness is developed, we can inquire. Therefore in the human form of life it is the only business to inquire about the Absolute. Now, athāto brahma jijñāsā. The animals, they can inquire where is some food, where is some stool. That much. They have no other power. But when one becomes..., gets this machine of human form of body... The Vedānta axiom is "Now it is the time for inquiring about the Absolute Truth." Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is real human life, when he inquires about the Absolute Truth. Otherwise, it is animal life. And there are so many department of education means inquiries. In the human society, there are departmental education. Physics department, chemist department, mathematics department, this department, that... Why? Because there are different inquiries. So Vedānta-sūtra says that the prime inquiry is to inquire about the Absolute Truth. That is human life. If there is no inquiry about the Absolute truth, then still he is animal. So those who are simply satisfied with the physics and chemistry, they are still animals. They are not human beings. This is the challenge. Still they have not developed the consciousness. And that inquiry, when it is for Kṛṣṇa, that is the final development. And when he understands Kṛṣṇa, his life is perfect. Then he goes back again to the spiritual world. He's quite fit to live there. Otherwise, he's unfit, he must be here in this material world. And if he understands Kṛṣṇa, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). This is perfection.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: He has got many institutes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, it is in his name, Pasteur. He is a famous scientist. He was a chemist and biochemist, and he did this experiment in the 1860s. Now the flask... This experiment is called a "swan-neck" experiment because the shape of the neck of the flask looks like the neck of a swan. So it is the famous "swan-neck experiment." Now, at that time, it was quite amazing that even the so-called famous Greek philosophers like Aristotle, Plato and all these philosophers, even they believed that life actually comes from matter. They had all complete materialistic view of life, completely on the bodily concept. Now, at that time...

Prabhupāda: But Socrates did not believe like that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Socrates also believed in material concept.

Rūpānuga: No, Socrates did not think he was the body.

Prabhupāda: He separated body from the soul.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: It is good.

Hari-śauri: It's very convincing, this presentation.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I think they are mahātmās, no doubt, it's just that most chemists, most scientists are very, very skeptical. Going from ovals,(?) and all of a sudden they see the form of Viṣṇu.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That would be a great shock for the scientists.

Prabhupāda: Whose brain is there.

Hari-śauri: Maybe they should explain that in a little more detail, that in that higher order, that he put in the slide, there was one box that said "higher-order laws," so then they have to explain that if there's laws then there's lawmaker, that means higher intelligence, so that means a higher personality.

Prabhupāda: That is explained. Vāsudeva is higher. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19).

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The difficulty is that they compare Vāsudeva to themselves. They think that "I am so unintelligent and tiny, I can't even create anything, but how can one person create all of these things, down to the tiniest atom?" Such an extraordinary...

Prabhupāda: Therefore He is God. He's not dog like you, barking only and doing nothing. (Prabhupāda knocks on table or flooring) What is this stone?

Hari-śauri: Marble. It's a type of Italian marble, I think. They call it terrazzo. Something like that.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's very soft underneath.

Hari-śauri: They often put this on the facings of buildings, big buildings.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Comes off on the fingers, very soft stone.

Hari-śauri: In Detroit temple, that stairway that goes up, this is the same marble, marble steps.

Prabhupāda: Move this.

Morning Walk -- July 4, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: The meat-eaters are the most sinful. They cannot understand. Vinā paśughnāt, nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānāt (SB 10.1.4). They will have no access.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think there must be a fundamental mistake in their outlook.

Prabhupāda: Their life is a mistake, because they are sinful. Their life is a mistake, misguided.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This fellow is a chemist, and actually he's very intelligent and he has read all the Gītās and he has studied many thoughts on Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Prabhupāda: First of all, we have to talk with them about this, "What is life?" Then they will talk. If they are on the bodily conception of life, they are animals, which is not. First of all, you have to talk with them on this platform, "What is life." Identification.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: To me, my feeling was that they somewhat look down. They look down in their feeling.

Prabhupāda: Look down?

Hari-śauri: They think they are superior.

Prabhupāda: But you did not talk with him and argue?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I argued.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Devotee: Prabhupāda, you were a chemist before, but I think you are the greatest alchemist to have taken so many leaden souls and turned them into golden Vaiṣṇavas. Perhaps you can even transform them (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa is giving us facilities to preach this cult. Everywhere we have got very, very palatial buildings to accommodate devotees. Now we have got here a very nice place, accommodate devotees. Everywhere we have got. In Bombay we are getting the best temple in India. We are spending crores of rupees, Kṛṣṇa is giving us money. So I started the business with forty rupees. That was also not American currency. They allowed me to bring forty rupees. So when I was getting off the ship I asked the captain, "I have brought these forty rupees, which will not be accepted here, so you take." At that time three books I had, the first, second and third volume. So I asked him that "You purchase. Give me some dollars." So he asked, "What is the price?" "Sixteen dollars." So he gave me twenty dollars, and I delivered them. With that twenty dollars I got out down on the land of America, and that forty rupees. So I did not know where to go, where to stay. So Kṛṣṇa is giving us all facilities, and these American boys are helping. I think those who are Indians, they should join this movement sincerely and preach more vigorously. People will be benefited—this is real substance. Otherwise people are being misguided, so many things going on. Transcendental meditation, the, what is called? No, another. So many. Actually, speaking for the last at least two hundred years, many swamis, people came here, but not a single person was converted to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is history. What do you think, Sukla? You have studied. So many swamis, yogis, scholars came, and they spoke on Bhagavad-gītā and other, but not a single person became a devotee of Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Once you told me that in Los Angeles.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now you can do that experiment. Then our poverty will be... (laughter) It is fact. There are many yogis, they prepare gold by drinking mercury. They drink mercury, overnight, next morning they pass urine and dip copper coins in it. And then after some time the copper coins put into the fire, it becomes gold.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's alchemist.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, they do that. But it is a fact that copper and tin and mercury proportionately mixed will produce gold.

yathā kāñcanatāṁ yāti

kāṁsyaṁ rasa-vidhānataḥ

tathā dīkṣā-vidhānena

dvijatvaṁ jāyate nṛṇām

This example is given by Sanātana Gosvāmī. As kaṁsya... Kaṁsya is mixture of copper and tin, bell metal. When it is properly treated with mercury, it becomes gold. Similarly, a human being properly treated by initiation, he becomes a brāhmaṇa. This example has been given by Sanātana Gosvāmī. Tathā dīkṣā-vidhānena dvijatvaṁ jāyate nṛṇām. Nṛṇām, he says, "of all human beings." He doesn't say a particular class or particular country. Śuddhyanti prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ. Everyone can be purified by the initiation process, by expert spiritual master. That is accepted in the śāstra.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So you try to understand this, everything will be clear. Material energy has no power to create. It is this glance that makes material energy energetic. Chemical combination, that alkaline and acid, they create some agitation, effervescence, but it is done by the chemist. He mixes the two liquids and there is effervescence. It is like that. So you read that chapter carefully. You'll solve your problem. (pause)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's said in the mahat-tattva when the Lord glances or impregnates, that the glancing...

Prabhupāda: That is spiritual. That glancing is spiritual. So matter itself cannot do anything. Aja-jala-stana, aja-jala-stana. The nipples in the throat, neck. As there are some nipples, nipples useless, that is not milk-giving nipples. So nature is creating. They, generally, they say "by nature," but nature has no power. It is matter. When there is glance of Saṅkarṣaṇa or Viṣṇu, that will do.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Every, always happening. Nature's law is going on.

Sadāpūta: Yes. So what I was wondering, is like earth still being manifested in living bodies from sound and so on, like the chemists...

Prabhupāda: No, no. The process is going on. I've described. That is going on.

Rūpānuga: So the spirit soul is in the seed, and the seed interacts with the other chemicals to make growth. So if the chemicals are not there in the earth, then that seed cannot make those chemicals.

Prabhupāda: No, chemical is there in the earth. According to the seed it is exacted. Just like a chemist will analyze or they separate the ingredient, so much this percentage, so much that percentage, so much that. Everything is there. Similarly within the earth, everything is there. The seed is the instrument and the living entity is the exactor—what is that? Exactor?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. He's executor.

Rūpānuga: He takes, utilizes.

Prabhupāda: Utilizer. Bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Extracts.

Arrival Comments in Car to Temple -- July 9, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: We had a good success because we sent out all the householders to the parks. During that holiday everyone goes to the parks. So the householders took their children and they set up a tent, and one of them stayed there babysitting and all the others went out distributing your books. So in that way they went out on traveling saṅkīrtana.

Prabhupāda: What is the name of that boy? He sold one Caitanya-caritāmṛta to a chemist?

Devotee: Praghoṣa?

Hari-śauri: No, not Praghoṣa, he's originally from New York, big, heavy, thick-set boy. Begins with J.

Prabhupāda: One chemist of (indistinct), he sold one book, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, then he talked with me, he's pleased.

Hari-śauri: He sold him a Caitanya-caritāmṛta and then he brought him over and Prabhupāda spoke to him.

Prabhupāda: New York climate is very nice?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very nice, like Calcutta.

Hari-śauri: On July Fourth Prabhupāda went and drove into Washington to see the fireworks.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really.

Hari-śauri: In the evening we had traveling kīrtana all around the city.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think this is enough, Prabhupāda? I'll tie it together now.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good. Then there is a part called "Hare Kṛṣṇa Meditation." "The Hare Kṛṣṇaś practice bhakti, the yoga of devotion. They have their mahāmantra, continual recitation of which will have a meditative effect. By integrating recitation of the mantra with a life of rigidly formulated devotional activities, it would seem that devotees actually live their meditation. Such a life of living meditation is not without parallel in secular fields. It is believed that the spiritual form of alchemy served this purpose; that is, an alchemist repeated the same experimental routine over and over until it became automatized, though still requiring some slight personal involvement." He's getting a little far out here. "It was expected that the result..." Anyway, "...practitioners of Western magical disciplines sought for similar results. Meditation takes effect in terms of the ambiance in which it is practiced. In the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement there are certain to be transcendental experiences. They would be in accord with Vedic teachings, but their exact nature has not proven easy of discovery, since devotees insist that their sole aim in life is to be of service to Kṛṣṇa." We're not interested in experiencing all these special things.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is very nice.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That means that you are a rascal. You admit that you are a rascal. We see one sparrow bringing within few days, life. So many birds, they are bringing life within few days.

Rāmeśvara: They say there are certain chemicals in the body.

Prabhupāda: All right, you rascal, big chemist, you combine these chemicals and bring life. Why do you not do that? Simply talking millions and trillions of years just to bluff other rascals. You are a rascal and you are bluffing other rascals. That is your business, and getting high salary, that's all.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even they can take a dead body, there's no need to manufacture the body, and try and put life back into it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, give him some chemicals. So many dead bodies are being wasted. Give some chemical and let them come back in life.

Jayādvaita: They are freezing the bodies sometimes, so that in the future when they perfect that ability, they'll revive these dead bodies and they'll live again.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...things are going on.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Jagadīśa: Desert, like the desert.

Prabhupāda: Yes, there was water. There was water. You cannot say that sand has come automatically. It comes from... What is that sand? It's soda-silicate. The water is soda, full of soda, and from that, sand comes. You are chemist. You know soda silicate?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Excuse me?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Brahma-tīrtha prabhu, Bob Cohen, is a geologist. He just got initiated yesterday.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Oh, yes.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: He's the Peace Corps devotee from India? He is a scientist in the field of geology, studies the earth and how these formations come, and he's working with the scientists to prove their misunderstandings, their false claims.

Prabhupāda: No, without water there cannot be sand.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Mike Robinson: Are you, sir, writing off all scientists because they've failed to understand the spiritual dimension in life?

Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes, it is scientific, everything scientific. Science means knowledge, full knowledge.

Mike Robinson: But you were a chemist yourself, were you not, in secular life before you took up the position you have...?

Prabhupāda: It doesn't require to become a very big chemist. Any common sense man can do it. Of course, I was chemist in my previous life.

Mike Robinson: So presumably you think that that science is also important, even if scientists are being dull-headed.

Prabhupāda: The important so far—not all-important. Not all-important.

Mike Robinson: I see. Can I come back to a question that is interesting me, and that is when we were differing a few minutes ago, you were saying don't bother, you know, don't bring the scriptures in, use common sense. But what part do the scriptures have in your religion? How important are they?

Prabhupāda: Our religion is science. As we, when we speak, that a child grows a boy, it is science, it is not religion. Every child grows to become a boy. Where is the question of religion? Every man dies. Where is the question of religion? And when a man dies, the body is useless. So where is the question of religion? It is science, it is science. Either you Christian or Hindu or Muslim, when you die your body's useless. This is science. You cannot say that "We are Christian. Now the body is dead. Now we don't consider it as dead. We believe it is not dead." No, it is dead. Either you are Christian or Hindu or Muslim, it is dead, it is useless. So when we speak, we speak on this basis, that the body is important—it doesn't matter whether it is Christian body or Hindu body or Muslim body—so long the soul is there. When the soul is not there, it is useless. It is applicable to everyone.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: You follow that, brahmacārī gurukula, that I've already explained. That should be done. Don't bring any new thing, imported ideas. That will not be helpful. It will be encumbrance. "My experiment with truth"—Gandhi's movement. Truth is truth. "Experiment" means you do not know what is truth. It is a way of life, everything is stated there, try to train them. Simple thing. We are not going to teach biology or chemistry. They are not going to... Our students are not going to... Our students should be fit for teaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. By their character, by their behavior, by their knowledge, that is wanted. Biology, chemists, physicists, and mathematician there are hundreds and thousands. We are not going to waste our time that Gurukula should produce a great grammarian, a great geologist, biologist, don't want that. There are many other educational institutions. If you can get a good driver of your car, so what is the use of wasting your time to learn driving? Is it not? If you have got important business, you can do that. Why should you waste your time to learn driving? Better employ one driver, pay him some fare.

Harikeśa: You once said in Vṛndāvana that the Marwaris, they don't bother going to school because they can make a lot of money by sitting by the phone and just pay a few rupees a day and any educated fool can do the work.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they do that. They are employing in their factory, big, big chemist, big, big physicist, engineer and so on, but they do not bother. They are paying thirty thousand rupees per month salary, Birla. Expert, imported from foreign country, but their sons are never troubled. They know how to utilize that worker of thirty thousand rupees per month and to earn thirty lakhs from him. Why shall he waste his time? He knows how to they earn. They pay a man thirty thousand and through him earn thirty lakhs. Actually, in order to make a balanced society, the varṇāśrama-dharma is very important, cooperation. So these things are meant for the śūdras, and brāhmaṇas are not meant for this.

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Arrangement, as soon as you mention arrangement, there is arranger.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Arranger, who is arranger.

Prabhupāda: As soon as you say arrangement.

Nava-yauvana: They say it's chemistry, but then there must be a chemist.

Harikeśa: Well, it's the arrangement of the complete whole.

Prabhupāda: What is that complete whole? You say arrangement. The arrangement is if there is arrangement, there is brain.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Who is the complete whole?

Prabhupāda: Arrangement is not accidental.

Nava-yauvana: They say yin and yang.

Prabhupāda: I am coming here. This child can say the arrangement was there. She can say like that. But I'm adult, I know the arrangement was there. It was made by somebody.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That means rascalism. Not a single soul has been created till now and these rascals are claiming that they are going... And they are scientists. We have to accept them as scientists. Just see. This is... Not only now. One gentleman, one big doctor, chemist, he has got Nobel Prize, he came to California and our Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara, he was in the also in the university, he's also doctor and chemist. So he was speaking on the chemical evolution. So he's my student, he challenged him, that, "If I give you chemicals, can you prepare life?" "That I cannot say."

Dr. Patel: Even a living cell of life...

Prabhupāda: No, it was meeting. When Svarūpa Dāmodara challenged him, that "Suppose I give you the chemicals, right chemicals. Can you prepare a life?" Then he said, "That I cannot say." Why? Why do you say nonsense?

Dr. Patel: But their definition of life is very meager. They say that life is a chemical imbalance, a state of chemical imbalance. That is wrong. Life is something higher than...

Prabhupāda: Therefore these chemists—they are predominating—so how it is possible to take their version? Ayi. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...a simple version of Vaiṣṇava.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They can't. That, this nonsense speaking, is going on throughout the history, but they'll never be able. That is the fact. "We are trying. We shall do in future"—these things are going on. But this is all stories. We don't believe in these nonsense things. They'll never be happy. That is not possible. Therefore I challenged your technology that "Where is that department? Do it!" First of all do it. Suppose if a man is in business. He may say that "I am trying to become a millionaire." But he cannot say that "I am millionaire." So the so-called scientist, "Yes, we are trying." You are trying, that's all right. But when you become, then you call scientist. There is no possibility, and because you are trying I have to accept you are scientist? Recently in California University one professor came. He has gained the Nobel Prize, Chemical Evolution. They are trying to prove that life is generated by chemical evolution. So in that meeting I had my one student. He's Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara. He's also big chemist. So he knows. He talks with me. He has got the idea. He has written one book, Scientific Basis of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. So he challenged that "Suppose if I give you the chemicals, can you produce life?" The answer—"That I cannot say." Why he talks nonsense? He is theorizing that life is made of chemicals, but if you give the chemicals, why you cannot make life? When I was in South Africa... Where is that? Pretoria or something? There are many factories for chicken killing. Chicken incubator. So one of the students, worker there, I said, "Suppose this is a chicken factory. So take one egg and analyze the chemicals.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I have some designs about the covers of the first issue. We wanted to show to Śrīla Prabhupāda. I think I have here.

Prabhupāda: We are challenging scientists that "Life cannot be produced by chemicals only. Life comes from life." They're all big, big chemists. There is another Ph.D. Another M.A.C., M.A.C., this Oriya, Faree(?). He can also join.

Gargamuni: Śrīla Prabhupāda? I would like to see Tarun Kanti Gosh. He once told me any time you wanted to go to Manipur he would give an official letter.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Gargamuni: So if I can show him this letter I can make arrangements now so that after Māyāpur we can go.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Gargamuni: I can give them the names and our passport numbers.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I have the forms I brought from Manipur.

Prabhupāda: So you arrange it.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No, you can..., every right to speak. You are qualified scientist. All doctor, they must agree to hear you, cannot deny.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And our mathematician is very good. He's also got some good artistic ideas. He told me that he started some arts.

Prabhupāda: So he's a mathematician and another (sic:) physist, and you are chemist. So complete science. The pure science is mathematics, physics, and chemistry. So our three Ph.D.s, they are combination of pure science. Nobody can defeat. Mathematics is there, physics is there, chemistry is there. And my sentiment is this, (laughs) I challenge them, "No. Life from life, not matter." So perhaps I challenged first. Or anybody? Then life from life, not from matter?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda did it.

Gargamuni: I think we should make maybe a few plates just like they have shown the scientists, but a few plates of yourself with some quotations challenging these men.

Prabhupāda: Our another challenge is they have never gone to moon planet. (laughs)

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In my case, the university sponsored me saying that nobody in the United States that can do the job as I do, which is not true.

Prabhupāda: What is that job?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: My job, my work, chemist, the instrument I work. Saying that... Must be written to the Federal Government, to the Labor Department, saying that there's nobody who would be able to do my job in the United States, qualified. Then the second condition is that by being employed myself, then nobody will be displaced. Any U.S. citizen will not be displaced by my employment. So those two conditions. And it has to be written by the university sponsor.

Prabhupāda: So very difficult, that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they did it. After that, I have to get from India government saying that Indian government has no objection for me to be in the United States. So I have to get from Central Government, from the Minister of Education, and I have to get one certificate from the passport office in Calcutta, Regional Passport Office. And I have to get one from Manipur Government saying that Manipur Government has no objection for me to be in the United States. And the Manipur Government objected, that they want me back to Manipur. So there was some difficulty at the beginning. So I told them that "No, no, don't say that. Just say that you don't need me." (laughter) So they did it, letter, and I got all those letters. And that letter has to go to Indian Embassy. First of all it has to go to Indian Consulate in San Francisco. And San Francisco has to send a letter of recommendation to Indian Embassy in Washington. And then the Embassy has to send to Federal Government to the Labor Department in Washington, State Department, saying that "Such and such has this letter."

Prabhupāda: So made it very complicated.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Then in 1828 this German chemist whose name is Frederick Muller, he synthesized, it is called urea. Urea is a chemical that comes out of urine. It's normally in urine from..., called inorganic compounds. So he announced that there's nothing strange about the organic world that happens in the living system. So from that time onwards they thought that life can be studied in terms of chemistry. But it is already 150 years since that theory but nothing happened. Nothing's understood.

Prabhupāda: That I have already discussed, that from orange tree you can get that acid, citric acid?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Citric acid.

Prabhupāda: But from citric acid, you cannot get orange tree. That is not possible. A living tree can produce citric acid chemical, but citric acid cannot produce a living... Therefore chemical comes from living being, not the living being comes from the chemical. This is the conclusion.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now we are in a better position because this Khorana, he just synthesized this gene last month. So now, with the synthesis of this gene, nothing is happening. Because this is what they thought: once they synthesize this, they will be able to understand life in terms of chemistry. But nothing is understood, though it has been synthesized.

Prabhupāda: Failure.

Room Conversation -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are zamindars.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: His father.

Prabhupāda: They are also kṣatriya.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. He was also a good chemist.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, very qualified.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He works very nice. He is very good in experiments, making compounds.

Prabhupāda: Great loss. He will get again good birth to become Vaiṣṇava. There is no doubt. He was initiated. Again he will get chance. Anyone who has joined this movement and given little service, his human life next birth guaranteed. There is no doubt. And then he will get again chance to develop. He is not going to be cats and dogs.

Hari-śauri: I remember once in Vṛndāvana, though, that you said that if someone deliberately breaks the principles even after initiation, he can become a dog in his next life because of that.

Prabhupāda: That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He said he had, honorary, about some fourteen, fifteen Ph.D. degrees.

Prabhupāda: Ph.D. Genuine?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Some are honorary, but he is from Oxford and Cambridge, very renowned scholar.

Mādhava: He's a chemist.

Prabhupāda: He's a chemist.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. So he's very old. He's about seventy-three years old. And he had a genuine desire to be engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So he'll be a devotee. So he invited us to come and speak to him today on... I'm going to speak on science and Kṛṣṇa consciousness today.

Prabhupāda: A good opportunity.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. And he expressed very frankly and very honestly... In fact, Girirāja was talking to (indistinct) yesterday, Girirāja and myself, and every moment, every word, every mood that he expressed was a genuine example of how this material world, we are suffering so much. He said that he had everything in life that he wanted to, in material possession. He has all the qualifications, and he represented national and international levels, the different planning commissions, the chairman of so many organizations, but he said...

Prabhupāda: What is his age?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He's seventy-three years old. He's very old, but still, he's very active, in good health. And he expressed that he's missing something. So we told that it is ripe time for to be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And he comes to a point that he wanted to come and stay in the temple for a week just to learn more and try to get away from all the...

Prabhupāda: So this is very nice. Bring him and give him a nice accommodation.

Morning Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He's Congress man. So nobody will elect Congress man.

Girirāja: No. He's like the Sanjay of the Municipality. Everyone knows he's corrupt and ruthless.

Prabhupāda: So let Mr. Thakur come. He's chemist.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He's applied physicist, and...

Prabhupāda: So you also were present in that meeting with Mr. Thakur?

Girirāja: Yeah.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He also saw the movie that Yadubara had. We also presented a movie, and Mr. Thakur, Professor Thakur, was also watching.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yadubara's movie.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That new one.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How did he like it?

Girirāja: He missed it. He missed the whole thing.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Well, he, er... A little...

Prabhupāda: No, you make some movie.

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: They have also manufactured. (laughter) This is going on. So Vedic injunction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Guru is required to understand tad-vijñānam, transcendental science, not for any material understanding. Material understanding, there are so many chemists, (sic:) physists and many other department of... When we speak of guru, it means beyond this material world. For that purpose we require guru. So... Just like now it is being very much advertised that "You execute meditation. Your mind will be strong. Your health will be strong." That means from material point. But keeping your health strong, the medical science is there and so many other thing. But people are taking advantage of this yoga system. The śāstra says that dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). He is yogi who is meditating and mind is fully absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise it is material. Material things does not require... Maybe a gymnastic, muṣṭika.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...is visible part.

Prabhupāda: No, life is not visible to him. He is simply saying, the combination of the modes of nature visible.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There's a very interesting remark by one of the Nobel Prize-winning chemists. His name is St. Georgi(?). He got Nobel Prize for discovering Vitamin C. And he said he was looking for life for last twenty years or so, but, he said, he wound up with the electrons and protons, which don't have any life. He said, somehow life has escaped through his fingers.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, he says that.

Prabhupāda: That life has escaped and life is required.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, that means they couldn't find life.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Life comes from life, and the supreme life, Supreme Being, is God. That is Kṛṣṇa.

Visit From Allopathic Doctor -- October 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They have got it?

Doctor: (Bengali)

Upendra: What was the other syrup?

Doctor: Neurovion syrup. N-e-u-r-o-v-i-o-n.

Upendra: Neurovion syrup. These can be had at any chemist?

Doctor: Yes. I think it is available here. If something is not available here, it can be got from Mathurā.

Upendra: "Fried...?" "Fried" something?

Doctor: Proteins, high protein. Spoonful two times, with fruit juice or barley water.

Dr. Kapoor: You will give glucose in fruit juice, and this also you'll give in fruit juice, so you can alternate.

Abhirāma: He said how much glucose?

Dr. Kapoor: In plain water also you can give glucose.

Doctor: No. That will be a hurt. That will produce, be producing hurt. Plain water... You are giving distilled water?

Abhirāma: No, we're not giving plain water.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Scholar?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Viswas is the head of the physics department, Delhi University. He's very religious, also he's very appreciative. They already know about Śrīla Prabhupāda's activities. So there is one professor called Katak. He's the head of the department of physics at also Indian Institute of Technology in Delhi. He's coming with his father. His father is a chemist, retired. They're also... So like that, many scholars are coming. Also from Jawaharlal University, there's Dr. Mukerjee. He's head of the department of life sciences, coming.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, would you like to sit up for a while?

Hari-śauri: He was just sitting about ten minutes ago.

Prabhupāda: Where is Kīrtanānanda?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kīrtanānanda? Shall we call him?

Prabhupāda: He is busy?

Akṣayānanda: He's not too busy to come.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He can come.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we have decided that the function will be started with the Brahma-saṁhitā prayers with our Gurukula boys to open the conference, followed by the short speech by the chief guest. Then we'll start our main talk. Our main talk is going to last at least two hours. Each of us will speak. And then I've decided to open about half an hour for questions and answers and general discussion. On Sunday I'm leaving more than an hour for discussion. We'll summarize the whole conference and also make some conclusive remarks about the previous two days' talk that we are making.

Prabhupāda: So the place is cleansed or not?

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It doesn't matter. "...Bhaktivedanta Institute, it was stressed that life was independent of matter and dependent on higher principles lying beyond the present limitations of physics and chemistry. The assumption that life itself was nonphysical was the key note. The conference was opened by Dr. Prem Kripal, former president of the executive board of UNESCO. Three lectures were delivered by Dr. Thoudam D. Singh, director of the Institute; Mr. Robert Cohen, a geologist from USA; and Dr. Michael Marchetti, a theoretical chemist and student of the philosophy of science; on the fundamental nature of life and matter, new findings in paleontology and their effect on the theory of evolution, and the social consequences of the materialistic view of life. The philosophical foundations of life was the theme by discourse by Dr. S. R. Bhatt, associate professor of philosophy at Delhi University. Dr. Richard Thompson, a mathematician from Cornell University, and Mr. David Webb from England dealt with the application of information theory to the theory of evolution, thermodynamics and the origin of life. The limitations of science were discussed by Dr. A. Ramaya, professor of Biochemistry of the All-India Institute of Medical Science. Dr. Singh opposed the theory that life could be understood solely in terms of chemical combinations. There was intricate features of life, ranging from the structures of molecules and living cells to the subtle ones of human personality. The simple push-pull laws of chemistry and physics cannot account for these phenomena, and life and matter are understood as two distinct kinds of energy. Mr. Cohen said that the proof of Darwinian theory of evolution must depend in the end on the fossil record. Darwin's theory required that all the different species of life were gradually transformed, one into another, through many small changes or mutations. 'Yet prominent paleontologists such as Eldridge and Gould are now maintaining that the fossil record only supports the view that species remain static in form and that changes between them, if they do really occur at all, can only occur by abrupt leaps. An examination of possible causes for such leaps shows that they could only be accounted for by the action of a higher intelligence,' he said. Dr. Thompson dealt with the mathematical analysis of the laws of nature studied in modern chemistry and physics. 'In the light of the modern theory of information, these laws can be shown to be unable to account for the highly complex and unique structures of living organisms. It can also be shown that the quantum-mechanical laws suffer from serious shortcomings, because they cannot account for the nature of any conscious observer. Both of these lines of evidence supporting the view that the living being is a nonphysical entity and that the behavior of matter when in the present of life proves that there must be further higher order laws and principles as yet unknown to modern science.' All of these conclusions were in agreement with the observed phenomena of life, and they also corroborate the systemic description of the nature of life given in the Bhagavad-gītā. There was a general agreement among the participants of the conference that this approach to understanding the nature of life provided a viable alternative to the materialistic view of modern science."

Prabhupāda: Hm. A good article.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I think they gave a very full coverage.

Prabhupāda: And very scientifically presented. And Bhaktivedanta Institute is advertised.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Their food is first class, there is no doubt. Yes... It is certified by Sir P. C. Raya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By who, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: A big chemist.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was his name?

Prabhupāda: Sir P. C. Raya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: P. C. Raya.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: A chemist, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. He's the first chemist who started this Bengal Chemical.

Prabhupāda: He said first-class food is Marwari, and last class, Madrasi.