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Chaos (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: Yes. But whatever we do, we got to swing.

Hayagrīva: That's for sure. But there've been... See what you think of various melodies. We play various melodies and see how we can come out. Another thing, do you want to have responsive chanting?

Prabhupāda: Responsive chanting must be there.

Allen Ginsberg: That would be interesting, yes.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise everyone will become tired and that will be chaotic. Response. That's nice. Then the audience will respond.

Allen Ginsberg: We got into some responsive chanting last time.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Therefore there is chaos. There is chaos. If you want to save yourself from this chaotic condition of life you must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our proposal. Give me that knife. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Not so many. Begin. Aiye. (break) ...friend of Kṛṣṇa. How much exalted he is, a great warrior, and he has the right to talk with Kṛṣṇa on equal level. Still, he accepted Kṛṣṇa as spiritual master. And he said, "The confusion which I have created, it is not possible for me to clear it. It is You only who can clear, I know. Therefore I accept You as spiritual master." Therefore it is required that one should know who can clear your confusion, and there you must surrender. (aside:) Anyone? Everyone. Come on. Not in the left hand. Don't give anything by left hand; don't take anything. That is a etiquette. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yes. Yes.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: That is stated, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ: "In this age practically all men will be śūdras." That is... That is predicted. But if there are simply śūdras, then the social order will be destroyed. You... Just like in spite of your state of śūdras, a brāhmaṇa is found here. And that is necessity. So if you do not divide the social order in such a way, then there will be chaos. that is the scientific estimation of the Vedas. You may... You may belong for the time being to the śūdra class, but to maintain the social order you have to train some of the śūdras to become brāhmaṇa, some of the śūdras to become kṣatriyas. You cannot depend on the śūdras. Then there will be chaos. Neither you can depend only on brāhmaṇa.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: Just like to fulfill the necessities of your body there must be a portion called the brain, there must be a portion called the arms, there must be a portion called the stomach, or the belly, and there must be a portion which is called the leg. The leg is also required, the brain is also required, the arm is also required—for cooperation, to fulfill the mission of the whole body. So any, any society you conceive, unless there are these four divisions, there will be chaos.

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Therefore, chaos. Daily everywhere, government is changing. Daily, weekly, this government, that government, that government. Why? Because they are not trained up how to administer. Therefore, that is required. Tejaḥ. First these administrators must be tejasī, īśvara bhava(?). (Sanskrit) Now there will be fight, and the administers will sit down on the nice couch and the common man will fight. Formerly kṣatriya came first of all. Like Arjuna, he is in the front. The other side, Duryodhana is in the front. So the fighter in that, "Oh, my master is there." But there is no kṣatriya. The administration is under the śūdra side. How they can manage? So they must be trained. As in business, we give training. Similarly, those who are going to take up the responsibility of administration, they should be trained. And who will train them? The brāhmaṇas, the śāstra, sādhu-śāstra-guru. And those who are common men, they will simply work under their direction. This division is already there, simply the training is not there. Therefore, there is chaos.

Dr. Singh: There was a lot of chaos even in the old days when these divisions were there.

Prabhupāda: No, not so.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Nānyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam. So in order to satisfy Him, there is no other way than to act according to the tenets of varṇāśrama. This is the beginning of civilization. Without accepting this division of varṇāśrama, that is animal society, everything is chaos. (some people talking aside)

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: It is clear. If you are actually surrendered soul, then to you it is clear, it is very clear. Kṛṣṇa gives direction, that this is the business of the brāhmaṇa, this is the business of kṣatriya. So politics is the business of the kṣatriya. So if you act according to Kṛṣṇa's direction in politics, then you are surrendered soul. It is not that because we have got this mālā and tilaka we are surrendered soul, and a kṣatriya cannot be surrendered soul, or a vaiśya cannot be surrendered soul. You have to act according to the direction. Kṛṣṇa is giving direction: "This is brāhmaṇa's karma." You do it. That means you are surrendered soul, at the same time you are acting as a brāhmaṇa. But if you act whimsically, then what is your surrender? And why did you become a brāhmaṇa? Then there is chaos. That is the present position of the society. They are not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, they do not abide by the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Still, they have become leaders. Then the whole thing is chaos.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: You cannot do without leg. Similarly, brāhmaṇa is the head, kṣatriya is the arms, vaiśya is the belly and śūdra is the leg. So as much I require my head so much I require the leg also. But the leg must do the leg's duty and the head must do the head's duty. Then it is perfect. And if the head is cracked, then everything is gone, madman. So at the present moment there is no brāhmaṇa, qualified. Therefore the society is in chaos. In chaotic condition, all are searching after something substantial. That is the position of the Western countries. They have heard so many things about India's culture.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Neither he has honor. He is not resigning the post. He has been ridiculed by the people, but still, he is sticking to his post. So this is the defect. You have got in your country only the vaiśyas, the belly and the legs. I am just giving a crude example. Not only in your country, every country nowadays. There is no brain. Brain is finished. Therefore everywhere you will find chaos and confusion. There is no brain. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are creating some brain. We are not creating the technological expert, but we are creating brain to know the purpose of human life and work on it under a systematic way.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Well, preaching, you cannot manufacture preaching. You must do preaching according to the principles ordered by your spiritual master. You cannot manufacture your own way of preaching. That is required. There must be some leader. Under the leadership. Yasya prasādād bhagavat... Why it is said? Everywhere, in the office, there is some immediate boss. So you have to please him. That is service. Suppose in office, in a department there is office superintendent. And if you do in your own way, "Yes, I'm doing my business," and the office superintendent is not pleased, do you think that kind of service is nice? No. Similarly, we have got, everywhere we have got immediate boss. So we must work. That is systematic. If everyone manufactures, invents his own way of life, then there must be chaos.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: It has already come to an end. There is no government anywhere, simply chaos.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Umāpati: Yeah, well, this is a nation of outlaws.

Prabhupāda: So they are rejected. If anyone, everyone becomes his own authority, then it is chaos.

Umāpati: Well, that is the fashion today.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Fashion means...

Umāpati: It's called "Do your own thing."

Prabhupāda: No, who are you to say me, "Do your own thing"? Then you become master. You are directing me. Why should you direct me, "Do your own thing"? You stop. Don't talk. If your philosophy accepted that everyone is authority, you cannot say, "Do your own work." Why should you say? Then you become authority. You should not speak at all.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, you do not know how to make them happy. First of all learn how to make them happy. You cannot manufacture your program to make them happy. That everyone is doing. But the more they are acting, the world becoming in chaotic condition. You know what is the standard of happiness, how to make them happy; then you can work. If a medical man, he has never seen a medical college and if he wants to treat patient, what is this?

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...in confusion. That is chaotic condition. Every citizen says, "I don't accept government law. I have got my own law." It is confusion.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Confusion is not... Chaotic condition, confusion is not proper stage. That is a state of suffering. That is the position at the present moment. Otherwise, why they are fighting, nation to nation, man to man, group to group, community to community, diplomat to dip...? They're simply fighting like cats and dogs. This is not perfect society. Simply ca... They can say dogs. They can simply make barking, "Whowf! Whowf! Whowf! Whowf!" That is not perfect society. Human society should be sober. That is Vedic civilization.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Everyone, these rascals, they have no idea who is the proprietor of this world. So they are doing in their nonsensical way. Therefore there is confusion. The business is not profitable. But if they accept, "No, the real proprietor is such and such gentleman, so he wants to do us like this," then the business will be profitable. Everyone is thinking that he is proprietor, so how this business will profit? This is the position. Everyone is thinking that he is the proprietor. He forgets that he is worker. He is not proprietor. That is the mistake. Therefore the business is mismanaged, and there is no profit, simply chaos.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: "If you want to stop this chaotic condition, then accept Me that I am the enjoyer and proprietor of this whole world, and I am your real friend. Let the business be done on My account, you take your right salaries, you be happy, and there will be no chaotic condition." But here the position is that everyone is thinking proprietor, and as far as possible, he is taking all the money, and other is starving. He is not getting his salary even. So he also, because he is weak, he cannot steal. The stronger, he is stealing. There is fight. Just like this chaotic condition of the petrol. The Arabians thinking that "I am the proprietor. Why shall I give to the Americans?" Thing is there, but it is chaotic only because they do not accept the proprietor is God. That is the defect. How you can give freedom for stealing? Stealing freedom means punishment awaiting you. If I give you freedom—"Yes, whatever you like, you can go on stealing"—that means next stage is your punishment. That is going on.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all, the whole society must be divided into four varṇas. Otherwise, there will be chaotic condition. That is what is the position now. What is he, what he has to do, one does not know. And there are so many unemployment. But if you organize the society into varṇas, there will be no question of unemployment.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, the thing is that actually, at the present moment, they are śūdras or less than śūdras. They are not human beings. The whole population of the world. It doesn't matter whether it is western or eastern. That is the position. So unless they are trained up, so the society's already in chaos, and it will go on still more in chaos, chaos. It will be hell. How people will live? And these rascals are being elected as government men, and they're only making budget how to tax. So one side, there is no rain; one side, there is no rice, especially in India; and one side, heavy tax. So they'll be all confused. They have already become confused. So in the confusion state it will be very difficult to make them Kṛṣṇa conscious. Therefore preliminary help should be given.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That they should not be in chaos and confusion. Otherwise, how the brain will work?

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Viṣṇujana: This is the most auspicious work for now, is this remedial measure to stop the chaos in the world?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Viṣṇujana: That's most auspicious.

Prabhupāda: Most auspicious. Because if the people are in chaos, how they'll be able to accept the great philosophy? It requires cool brain.

Viṣṇujana: For example, in my program...

Prabhupāda: Budhaḥ. Budhaḥ. Eh? Yes?

Viṣṇujana: My program now is I have ten brahmacārīs in buses, and everything and we're distributing books. But if the people are in chaos, how they will be able to accept the knowledge in the books?

Prabhupāda: No, not all of them are in chaos. There are some of them. Some of them. Not that all of them. Hare Kṛṣṇa (break) ...in separate department.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Therefore sleeping is my only business. Sleeping means for the weak. And for the strong, perspiration. This is the sign. When a man sleeps too much, he's weak in his health. And the strong man will perspire. These are very... Balera ghāma, and the durbalera ghuma. Ghāma and ghuma. Ghuma means sleeping, and ghāma means perspiration. (break) ...principle. And human beings means trained up under principle. That is the difference between animal. The animals, they cannot take up any training. But the human being, this human form of body is meant for taking training. So if they are not properly trained up, they remain animals and the whole society in chaos and confusion.

Morning Walk -- March 30, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...difficulty. All rascals, they have become leaders. They have no knowledge, and they become leaders. Therefore the whole world is in chaos.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Because he comes: paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). That is kṣatriya's business. Sādhu protection (Hindi). This is kṣatriya's business. God has got two business. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. If you want to prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā, it is difficult. (laughs) It is not possible. He says that "I have got two business: paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām, dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya..." Unless these two things are there, there cannot be establishment of real law and order. (break) ...everywhere, law and order. In spiritual also. Unless there is law and order, it is chaos. Law and order must be there.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. It doesn't matter whether a brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, or vaiśya, śūdra. If you are conscious that "I have to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead according to my capacity of work," then he'll not fall down. He'll not fall down. (break) ...fall down from the position, then it is dead society. It is not living society. At the present moment. Yes. If you don't find actual brāhmaṇa, don't find actual kṣatriya, don't find actual vaiśya, so all śūdras. And there is no guide. Therefore chaotic condition. (break) ...ship without rudder? What is called? Yes. They do not know what is the aim of life. Ask any leader.

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: He is confused because he was a kṣatriya, soldier. A soldier's duty is to fight with the enemy. So Kṛṣṇa was advising him, "The opposite party is your enemy. You are a kṣatriya. Why you are trying to become non-violent? This is not good." Therefore he says, "Actually I am now confused. So in confusion I cannot take the right conclusion. I therefore accept You as my spiritual master. You just give me the proper lesson." This is the point. So they were friends. Still, he was confused. So in chaotic condition, in confusion status of life, we must approach the person who is in full knowledge of the things. Just like you go to a lawyer, you go to a physician; similarly, every one of us in the material world, we are confused. Therefore we must go to the spiritual master who can give us real knowledge.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: At the present moment there is all over the world... We are touring all over the world. It is very hard to find out ideal class of men. That is the defect. In the Vedic culture the ideal class of men were the brāhmaṇas. Their qualification was: truthful, self-controlled, mind and the senses, and then tolerant, very simple life, full of knowledge, practical application of knowledge in life and full faith in God. These are ideal character. But such men are not available at the present moment. So therefore the social idealism is defective. Just like in your body, there are four divisions. The head, the arm, the belly and the leg. If the head is spoiled then you are a madman. In spite of possessing hands and bellies and legs, you cannot work properly. So at the present moment the heads are spoiled. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: No, it is going on. In India I know. They are selling sugar at two annas, four annas a pound, or seer, outside, and India, it is four rupees. What is this nonsense? This is going on. They want to import some war materials or something else, therefore they want export exchange. So they are sacrificing the convenience of the local people for export exchange. These things are going on. These politicians, they create an atmo... Therefore I say the head of the state, they must be clean. But they are all motivated. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Now there is petrol problem. I see so many buses, and not a single man, one or two men. And for two men a big huge bus is being run, and so much petrol is consumed unnecessarily. I have seen. I went from Nairobi to London in a plane—only five passengers. Out of that, four passengers we were. Why? Why this nonsense? And there is petrol problem now. They are creating simply, the so-called advancement of civilization, creating problems, that's all. And that is due to these rascal leaders. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They do not know what is the ideal of life, what is the aim of life. They are creating hodge-podge civilization and putting the mass of people in chaotic condition. This is the sum and substance. I do not know whether you'll agreed with me, but this is my study of the whole situation.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: But they are manufacture their own philosophy. Philosophy there must be. They've become their own authority. That is a chaotic condition. Authority he has made himself. Yes. I am my authority. Authority has to accept. But he does not know that I am fool No. 1, what is the value of my authority? Authority he must accept. But he makes himself his authority. That is the tendency now. "In my opinion." All rascals say like that. "In my opinion." He does not... He's rascal No. 1, what is the value of his opinion? But he'll say, "In my opinion." That is the difficulty. And this is called creative philosophy. Is it not?

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śakuni, yes. They're vultures, and their civilization is vulture-eater. The animal-eaters, they're like jackals, vultures, dogs. They're similar to these animals, the animal-eaters. It is not human food. Here is human food. Here is civilized food, human food. Let them learn it. Uncivilized, rudes, vultures, rākṣasas, and they're leaders. Therefore, I say all fourth-class men, they are leaders. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition.

Room Conversation with Monsieur Mesman, Chief of Law House of Paris -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No. Practically none. That is the defect of the modern society, that there is no brain. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition. In your country also, it is famous for so many revolutions. And whole Europe is..., Russia and other countries, because there is no brain. So there is need of these qualified first-class men, to lead the human society. Then next class... The head is first class, and next class: arms, protector, administrator. Their qualification is stated...

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 15, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Social platform, there must be four classes of men, divisions. Just like this body is divided into four departments—the brain, the arm, the belly and the leg—so the society should be divided into four divisions: the brain division, the arm division, the belly division, and the leg division. Leg division means ordinary worker. And all of them should cooperate for keeping the body fit. If this system is followed, then the whole human society will be working very nicely. At the present moment there is no brain; therefore everything is chaotic. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is creating some brain. If they follow, the whole society will be happy. A man may be very stout and strong, but if he has no good brain, it is useless. Similarly, at the present moment there is education, there is money and everything, but because there is no brain, the whole thing is in chaotic condition. The first defect is, in education, that the present leader, he does not know what is the aim of life. Neither the people know that there is reincarnation or transmigration of the soul after death. They do not know. So basically they are brainless. So they cannot give guidance, and therefore the whole society is in chaotic condition.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: (translated into Spanish by Hṛdayānanda) At the present moment it is required that the leading men should understand the aims of life and introduce it in the society for the general benefit of the human society. In the present chaotic position of the society... Just like we see on the road, cars are running with great speed, this way and that way, but they do not know what is the aim of life. Ask any one of them that "What is the aim of life, and why you are running so speedily, and what is the business?" Everyone will say, "I have got business. I am going hurriedly." And if I ask, "What is that business?" "Business means to earn some money and maintain the family." that's all. So is it a fact that to earn some money and maintain the family or at night sleep or sex indulgence, is that the aim of life? So that is my submission to the heads of the cultural movement. Is that the cultural end, to sleep at night or sex indulgence and at night earn money and maintain the family? I am asking this question.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Therefore, the duty of the state, duty of the father, duty of the teacher, everyone, those who are guardians—they should teach their subordinate how to become faithful to God. This one qualification will make him perfect. That is not being done. Everyone is godless mostly. And therefore there is problems, chaotic condition. Nobody is abiding by the supreme law. Everyone is creating his own law. That is the trouble. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for making the human society law-abiding citizen of the laws given by God. So that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa, God, is giving, "You do like this." If we do like that... Or take even Bible. If we follow strictly, then we become happy. So, am I right or wrong? What is your opinion?

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, every country, every country. Now, just like you are highly educated. Your country could not give you service. You are coming here. And that is śūdra. One who cannot live independently, he is śūdra. Paricaryātmakaṁ karyaṁ śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In this age, everyone is practically śūdra, because nobody can live independently. So we are producing mass śūdras. Therefore it is in chaotic condition.

Morning Walk -- (World War III) -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes, everything you stay. We have got place like this.

Rūpānuga: Our farms are very nice because economically when everything is in chaos, we can still provide food for our men.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rūpānuga: And milk and butter.

Pañcadraviḍa: Milk and butter.

Santoṣa: In America, prabhu. (break)

Rāmeṣvara: ...that if there is a war between Russia and America, there would be a nuclear war and they would pollute the whole atmosphere with radioactive particles which would kill everyone.

Prabhupāda: It is already polluted.

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There will be very, very big chaos, this godless civilization. And it is distinctly said, "There will be no grain, no sugar, no milk." These things will be stopped. Eat your sons and daughter. You are very much fond of eating meat. Eat your son. They will do that. I think they are doing now. You know that?

Room Conversation with Kim Cornish -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: I have given the example. Just like this sunshine is coming from the sun globe. Within the sun globe there is the president of the planet. Just like here on this planet you have got some president. Here there are many presidents, because it is hodgepodge, chaotic. But there everything is systematic. There is one person, his name is Vivasvān. He's the predominating deity. Kṛṣṇa went to see him and talked with him about Bhagavad-gītā. He's a person, and there the people, they are also persons. Just like in this planet. But here the body is predominantly made of earth, and there the body is predominantly of fire.

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: That caste system is already there. We are also..., we have got poor class, rich class. The Communists, they have also worker class, manager class, although the Communists against class system. But I have seen, they have made this classification: worker class, manager class. Why do you make this? That is efficiency. Leader class, follower class. Otherwise there will be chaos. This is natural.

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Even in your body there is class. The head class, the arm class, the belly class, the leg class. They are working differently for benefit of the whole body. That is natural. If you avoid and if you simply keep the leg, then it will be chaotic condition. Or even if you keep the head only, that will not stand. There must be four. That is natural. That is the Vedic mantra it is said—you are reading the other day—the brāhmaṇas, they came out of the mouth.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. (pause) Life will be more more dangerous in this Kali-yuga. People will starve. And they... It is already began. The hippies are going to the forest. This will be the whole world situation. Everything will be chaotic.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: It will be chaotic society. That is the present position, that there is no first-class men, there is no second-class men. There may be some third-class men, and all fourth-class men. This is the position. Therefore the whole human society is in chaotic condition. The first-class man should understand this. Therefore it is called dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). What is the meaning of dhīra? Just see.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: So therefore it is chaotic, no first-class men, all third class, fourth class.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Similarly, if in the society, if we don't create first-class men, that society is dead. That society is dead. So at the present moment there is no first-class men according to this word. Therefore there is chaotic condition, problems, and so on, so on, so on. So unless you create at least a few percentage of the people first-class men according to this standard, there cannot be any progress. This is my last word to you.

Morning Walk -- May 18, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Hm. The world is full of rascals and fourth-class men. That is our verdict, Kṛṣṇa's verdict. A human being does not know God, he's no better than dog. He is dog. Who knows God? There are so many scientists, philosophers, now everywhere. And they are discussing on sex philosophy, homosex philosophy, Darwin's theory. All third class, fourth class, they are controlling. Now they are gradually coming to chaotic condition, and their problems, engage so many big, big officials how to solve. Oh, why you created problem, first of all? You third-class, fourth-class men, you have created problem, and now we are trying to make solution—another problem. And because you are the same fourth-class men, how you can make a solution? You have created the problems. The man who creates problems, can he make solution? So you are the same fourth-class man, how you can make a solution? Bring first-class man. But there are no first-class men. All rogues and rascals. Things are becoming bad to worse, and still they'll claim, "We are first class."

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: A drunkard was never respected. Similarly meat-eaters. He was considered third-class man. In our childhood we have seen when people learned to eat meat, very secretly, not within the house. Outside the house with some Mohammedan cooker. It was considered very abominable to eat meat, to drink. And women, they were kept strictly under the vigilance of parents, father. Young girls not to mix with any young boy. If one young girl goes out of home and does not come back at night, then her life is finished. Nobody will marry her. So the father had to keep the young girls with great care. And the father was very, very anxious to find out a boy to hand it over. We have seen in our childhood. But now these things are slackened. Jawaharlal Nehru, our late prime minister, introduced divorce law. Now the society is in chaotic condition.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Sex life we are not stopping. But sex life allowed only to the gṛhasthas, householder, restricted. Not illicit sex. We are not stopping sex life. Sex life is required. But under rules. And if you enjoy illicit sex, then the whole society is spoiled. You make the innocent girls spoiled. And they have no other business than prostitution. That means you put the society into chaotic condition. The young girls they become cheap, you enjoy, then you become irresponsible. You have no family encumbrances, and you do not know how to maintain the family. That is the position. What is this welfare? Because the young boys enjoy the young girls and they get children, the government has to support.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1975, Honolulu:

Siddha-svarūpa: ...not right, rioting. Chaos.

Prabhupāda: And what they will create, chaos? They have no strength.

Siddha-svarūpa: Well, they burn their mattresses and they...

Prabhupāda: One slap is sufficient. (break) ...first-class man.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They are simply worker, assistant. So there must be division like this. The brāhmaṇas should guide the kṣatriyas, and the kṣatriyas will administer the state, and the vaiśyas will produce foodstuff, and śūdras will help. Cooperation for common benefit. But the aim is spiritual realization. That is perfect society. If everyone is śūdra, without any aim of life, then there will be chaos. Just like in your country, in spite of so much facility for education, the students are produced hippies, useless for all purposes. Why? I have gone to so many universities. I have seen the students, hippies.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: It has to be. If you don't, then you must suffer with all these criminals. That is natural. Just like in your body there is head, and there is arm, and there is belly, and there is leg. The head is the most important part. Why? Why not all legs? Why there are different divisions? Similarly, in the human society, if we want to make it perfect, there must be head, there must be arm, there must be belly, there must be legs. So leg can walk, but leg cannot do the work of brain. So at the present moment we have got all walking men, no brain. Therefore the society is in chaotic condition.

Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: But the position of the head and position of the leg are different. Head means giving direction, and arms means giving protection, and belly means receiving food for energy of the body, and leg means working. So the human society must be divided into four section, and they should work combinedly, cooperatively. Then there will be peaceful condition for realization of the goal of life, back to home, back to Godhead. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching this process of life, and the whole world is now in chaos on account of no brain.

Press Conference -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: The thing is that any system you take, without God consciousness it is zero. Just like hundreds and thousands of zeros, if you put together, the value is zero. But if you put one, the value increases immediately. That one is God. So either in politics or in sociology or philosophy, religion, everywhere, if there is no God sense, it is all zero. That is going on. Therefore, despite all advancement of education, economic development, people are in chaotic condition, they are not satisfied, and everything is being tried to make it very nice.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: The human being is the elder brother of all living beings. He is endowed with intelligence more powerful than the animals for realizing the course of nature and the indications of the almighty father. Human civilizations should depend on the production of material nature without artificially attempting economic development to turn the world into a chaos of artificial greed and power only for the purpose of artificial luxuries and sense gratification. This is but the life of dogs and hogs."

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: How it will be adjusted? If everyone will propose something, and who will say, "Now, out of so many proposals, this is correct." That means chaotic condition. If everyone says, "What I say, you hear." Then who will hear? Everyone will say only. Who will hear? That is going on actually. And rascal Vivekananda says, "Everyone's opinion is good."

Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: (break) Yes. In the whole world you won't find qualified brāhmaṇas. And they are required for guiding the human society. So therefore the human society is in chaotic condition. There is no guidance. The śūdras, they make things by vote. And what they'll vote? They're all rascals. What is the value of their votes? So that is going on all over the world. Fools and rascals they vote, and another rascal is selected. And after some time—"Oh, he is not suitable. Get him down," Nixon, and replace another fool, rascal. That's all.

Morning Walk -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: No. Unless they take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no hope, that's a fact. There will be more chaotic condition and everyone will suffer and perish. Āchinna-dāra-draviṇā gacchanti giri-kānanam. This is already predcited. I am not painting. It is already there, I am simply repeating. That's all. I am not speculator.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 12, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Especially the students. That means chaotic condition. (break) ...type of civilization, this material world.

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: A civilization of ignorance. They do not know what is what. Simply speculating, wasting time, talking all nonsense. This is going on in the name of education, but actually they are in ignorance. They do not know what is what. They are reading so many philosophical speculation, horrible condition of the so-called philosopher, scientist. Simply "I believe," "In this believe, that believe." You believe.... Believe something. That is your (indistinct). But your belief is not final. That is creating chaotic condition. You believe some way, I believe something, he believes something. What is the profit? Chaos. So all these philosophers, scientists, they believe "I believe," as if his belief will be a doctrine. Why he believes like that?

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Then the next inquiry should be: the mother is there, the children are there, then where is the father? That answer is given by Kṛṣṇa: ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4), "I am the father." So where is the difficulty to understand the Supreme Lord? But they are so dull-headed that they have no even common sense, and they're passing as philosopher, politician, and scientist, big leader, big rascal. This is going on. This is going on. And big, big rascals, they have taken the leadership of the world, and the world is in chaos, chaotic condition, everyone is unhappy, suffering.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Unless there is division of activity, nothing can be done perfectly well. The natural division is there in the body—the head, the arms, the belly and the legs. Similarly, in the social body also there must be the heads, the intelligent class of men, brāhmaṇa. Then everything will go on smoothly. And, at the present moment, there is no intelligent class of men. All laborer, worker class of men, fourth class. No first class, second class. Therefore society is in chaotic condition. There is no brain.

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: "To understand what God wants and to see that society works towards that aim"—that's the caption they put up here also, "The actual duty of government is to understand what God wants and to see that society works towards that aim"—"then people will be happy. But if the people work in the wrong direction, how can they be happy? The government's duty is to see that they are working in the right direction. The right direction is to know God, to act according to His instruction. But if the leaders themselves do not believe in the supremacy of God, and if they do not know what God wants to do or what He wants us to do, then how can there be good government? The leaders are misled, and they are misleading others. That is the chaotic condition in the world today."

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So in the society, human society, if there is not a class of selected, truthful, honest, and so many brahminical qualifications, then society is ruined. Therefore they are perplexed. Everyone is a śūdra. Go to the factory. That's all. Go to the factory and bring money. And he is getting 25 dollars or 50 dollars daily and immediately purchasing wine and flat on Bowery Street. You'll produce such men, useless men, disturbing in the human society. You cannot make classless. If you make classless, naturally they will be all śūdras, fourth-class men. Then there will be society chaos.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: And when they were attacked, they were running away. Because they are śūdras. How they can fight? They are not trained up as kṣatriyas. Huh? Anyone who is unemployed, let him become a soldier, but he cannot fight. That is not possible. Neither this class of men can have good brain to give direction to the society. The democracy means anyone can go to the government, and because he's not kṣatriya, his only business is how to get money so long he's on the post. Just like you did not like your President, Mr. Nixon. So that is the risk. If you keep the society in chaotic condition, any department, intellectual, administration, production, they'll be all topsy turvey, and there cannot be any peace in the world.

Arrival at Farm -- July 29, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Then there is happiness. Otherwise, there is distress. The modern godless civilization is making the part and the whole separated. Therefore the whole condition is chaotic. You have got experience in your this part of the globe, within fifty years there have been two big, big wars and... Many other parts also. People are not in happiness on account of godlessness. So actually if we want to be happy in this life and the next life, then we must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And it is not at all difficult: simply chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So I am very glad that you are accustomed to chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. Stick to it and you'll all be happy.

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Future you cannot plan. That is the foolishness. That is another obstinate rascaldom. Future is not in your hand. You cannot plan. That is going on. They are planning so many things for future, but it is being baffled. So many schemes, so many there are. Our, in India there is a planning commission, after independence. So whatever they did, all failure. All failure. And now it is chaos. That Guljanajana(?) Nanda you know? He was one of the prominent member of the planning commission. He was very important member in the central government, home member, planning commission, president and so on, so on. Nowadays he is loitering on the street, coming me to talk as ordinary man. You have seen? You were giving me massage on the roof and he was sitting?

Garden Conversation -- October 9, 1976, Aligarh:

Prabhupāda: Therefore chaotic condition. Otherwise, according to God's plan, every planet there is one chief person ruling. So in the sun there is a person. His name is given in the Bhagavad-gītā. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān. His name is Vivasvān. And his son is Vaivasvata Manu. Vivasvān manave prāha. These things are there. And his son, Ikṣvāku. And from Ikṣvāku, the kṣatriya-vaṁśa... In India still, the kṣatriyas are known, two dynasties, one from sun, one from the moon. Candra-vaṁśa, Sūrya-vaṁśa. Still, they are. So the kṣatriyas are coming.

Room Conversation with Mr. Tombe (M.L.A.) -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is also answered in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam by very strong word. Bhāgavata says, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). If the public is like dogs, camels, hogs, and asses, so what is the value of their election? He'll elect another big dog or camel. So there is chaos.

Room Conversation with Mr. Tombe (M.L.A.) -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: We manufacture our own ideas. That is failure. Otherwise in our country so many learned sages, especially Kṛṣṇa is there, and their books are there, their instructions are there. We do not take them. Still we become leader. So what kind of leading? He's imperfect. So he cannot lead. Then there will be some mistake and chaos. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu said... He said bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41).

Room Conversation with Mr. Tombe (M.L.A.) -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So Indians, they can make their life perfect by following this Vedic literature, and they can lead the whole world. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's. First of all you become perfect by taking lessons from the Vedic literature. And then you do good to others. But without making yourself perfect, if you try to do good to others, that is chaos. Then again comes, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Some blind men following another blind man. What will be the result? The present Indians, we have lost our own culture. We have rejected our own culture. Still we are leading people. There is chaotic condition. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to correct this mistake. So leaders like you should cooperate.

Room Conversation with Mr. Tombe (M.L.A.) -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then things will be perfect. India, if the whole world can be saved from this chaotic position, India can do. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. But that India leaders first of all make his life perfect. Then it will be all right. Just like our... Of course, I'm not proud, but I am alone. I started this movement alone, without any help. But because I am giving them the perfect information, whole world is taking it. Otherwise, from practical point of view, one man without any help, within ten years he cannot do like this. That's a fact. But I have no difficulty because I am following the Supreme Leader, Kṛṣṇa. People may say that I've done wonderful, but there is nothing magic. Because I am following Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Leader, so far it has become successful. So everyone can do that. Where is the difficulty? Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). If we follow the paramparā system it is not difficult.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Anything artificial, it will break. You cannot make a scheme of mental concoction. That will not endure. You take standard it will be beneficial. The whole world is in chaotic condition because they have so many artificial way of living.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: They have no intelligence. But everyone is important, cooperatively. This is society. You require also legs; you require also heads. Simply heads will not help you. Head will give instruction, "Leg, please walk in this way." That's all, legs will move. He carries me. "Hands, give me protection." Immediately, "Yes!" A bad somebody(?) "Come on." Yes. Coming. "Belly, you produce food, sufficient, so that the legs, hands and brain, everyone will be provided with sufficient..." This way. This is society. All third-class, fourth-class men, simply going to the factory, and they are making laws. This is... What is called? Chaos. Chaotic society, no brain.

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Prabhupāda: They are so great diplomats that "This man wants Hindu-Muslim unity, so make such arrangement that this... They fight will continuous. And give all the food to the Pakistani, so they will starve. Let them eat coal." The Hindustan has got coal mine. "So they will suffer for industrial supply, and they will suffer for food. And they will fight." British diplomats are very clever. Gandhi even offered that "Don't divide India. You better give it to Jhinna." But this commission, this Patita Lalan(?). "No, no," said, "It is... Otherwise, there will be conflagration of always fight. Let it be settled." Gandhi went to this point, that "If you think that without division India will be chaos, so you better give it to Jhinna in the hand. Don't give it to me." But they wanted division.

Morning Walk -- February 2, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: He's giving protection to everyone. And if he is a devotee, a special protection. This is God, and government means God's representative, God's, not people's representative. Government does not mean people's representative. Government means God's representative. That is government. Rājarṣi. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Bhagavad-gītā is not meant for the loafer class. It is meant for the rājarṣi. Unless the kings and big, big stalwart leaders understand this science, how they will lead? Because these leaders, they do not understand Bhagavad-gītā, they make their own plan. Therefore so much catastrophe, chaotic condition. It is meant for the rājarṣi. Big, big government officer, big, big kings, presidents, ministers. They should understand it. And government is making law, "No Bhagavad-gītā in the school, college," because they do not know the value. (break) ...Kali-yuga. "Kali-yuga, thank you very much." Dhanya kali-yuga teri līlā. (break) Thank you.

Evening Darsana -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Acyutānanda: Because if they have another war, nobody will go and fight that war again. They will all leave America. So they want America to be very good now, so that everyone will love America and come back. Because if there's another war nobody will join the army. They'll just leave.

Prabhupāda: So why there is war? They cannot stop war?

Acyutānanda: They start wars. (Prabhupāda chuckles) And in the chaos they make profit.

Prabhupāda: That means there are many like you.

Acyutānanda: Yes. (Prabhupāda chuckling) They're all in Canada, Mexico.

Prabhupāda: And Canada give them good shelter.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Sharma: Yes, I have met Swami Mādhava dāsa and his colleague, and I've gone through that article recently that they sent me about creation coming out of chaos. It is a very wonderful written article. They will be a real eye-opener for the scientists really. And I understand that you have a big plan to start a research institute with the help of the scientists. This will be really something that...

Prabhupāda: All Indian scientists should join.

Dr. Sharma: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That I want. To keep people in darkness is not science. They are keeping people in darkness. They do not know how nature is working, how they are subjugated to the laws of nature and trying to be independent.

Room Conversation -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When I was studying world history in college, when I read this system, they call it feudal, feudal system, I was very peaceful in my mind. I was very interested how nice everything, orderly... I was impressed with the order. Of course, I did not understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but I could see it was much nicer. This is chaos, the present-day system.

Prabhupāda: There was fighting between two political parties. The cultivator is working on the field. One party soldier and, "Where is the other party's soldiers?" "I have seen, they have gone this way." The soldiers of the king, let them fight. Therefore all the soldiers, they assembled in Kurukṣetra. It had nothing to do with the public. Fighting is going on, killing is going on in that big place. They were peaceful. "You conquer or either Kauravas. We shall pay tax. That's all." Why the public should be drawn?

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The human being is the elder brother of all other living beings. He is endowed with intelligence more powerful than animals for realizing the course of nature and the indications of the Almighty Father. Human civilizations should depend on the production of material nature without artificially attempting economic development to turn the world into a chaos of artificial greed and power only for the purpose of artificial luxuries and sense gratification. This is but the life of dogs and hogs."

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So that is stated in the Śrīmad... Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are interested only in the external nature, bahir-artha. They have no sense of understanding what is within the body. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. So the leaders are blind and they are leading blind men. Society is in chaotic condition. You are going?

Morning Talk -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, hanged. They are not guru. They are not missionaries. They do not know. They have no knowledge. And missionaries? You see? The so-called politicians, philosopher, religionists, rascals, distorting the meaning of Bhagavad-gītā. And yato mata tato patha. And "I like. Whatever I like, I can speak, and that is supported." What is this? Chaotic condition. There is no standard. We are giving the standard, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. And Gandhi said, "Oh, how can I stop cow-killing? It is their religion." Just see. Such a rascal. "My religion is to kill others, and it should be supported by the government." Such a foolish man, they are on the government power. Parīkṣit Mahārāja, did he consider that? "So you are killing cow? You must be killed." That's all. Life for life. "It is my religion, sir." "Then get out here! Get out of my kingdom! Perform your religion outside." This is king. This is government. He said like that, Kali. You know?

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Young man (4): Swamiji, if a man admits or comes to the conclusion that his mind is chaos...

Prabhupāda: Chaos?

Young man (4): In seeking to bring order into the chaos...

Prabhupāda: Mind's business is...

Young man (4): In seeking to bring order to this chaos, won't his natural path open before him? Won't he naturally come to spiritual sādhana?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the question?

Young man (4): I say, if a man sits down and admits to himself that his mind is chaotic, in trying to bring order to this chaos, won't his natural spiritual path open before him, when he sets about purifying his mind?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said, if someone is sitting down and the mind is very chaotic, and, he says, is there not something inherent within the living being that automatically that chaos will go away of its own accord?

Young man (4): No, no, no, that's not what I said.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It isn't?

Young man (4): No, it's not what I said. What I said was, when finally man comes to the conclusion that his mind is chaotic—there is no order—when he admits this to himself and he looks to find a way to purify his mind, will not the spiritual sādhana open up naturally?

Indian man (1): Without a guru.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that's the point I'm making. I mean that's something within himself.

Prabhupāda: Without a guru? That is not possible.

Young man (4): Hm?

Prabhupāda: That is not possible.

Young man (4): It is not possible?

Prabhupāda: Just like if you are mad—the mind is not in order—you go to a physician to treat you. That is the way. If your mind is not in order, what do you do? You go to a psychiatrist, you go to an expert for treatment.

Young man (4): No, no, this is... No.

Prabhupāda: That is the way. If you do not go, then you'll become mad.

Young man (4): No, no, no.

Prabhupāda: What is that "No, no, no"? You said that your mind is in chaotic condition.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Indian man (2): If I know that in my own mind my mind is chaotic...

Prabhupāda: Then if you know, then where is chaotic condition? This is nonsense.

Young man (4): Nonsense?

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you know, then where is chaotic condition?

Indian man (1): If you know that your mind is in a chaotic condition, your mind is not in a chaotic condition.

Young man (4): This is not what I'm saying. I say...

Prabhupāda: So what you say? We don't hear.

Young man (4): What I'm saying is one is admitting to oneself that their mind is not pure...

Prabhupāda: That means chaotic condition.

Young man (4): When one admits to oneself that their mind...

Prabhupāda: That means a... He is in chaotic condition. A madman—he admits or not-he's a madman.

Evening Darsana -- May 13, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: So anyone who is identifying with this body in either... According to Vedic civilization, the bodily identification is divided into eight: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. Varṇāśrama-dharma. So human civilization begins, according to Vedic understanding, when there is varṇāśrama system. Otherwise it is not human civilization. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). This system should be followed. Then, gradually, one has to come to the spiritual. Chaotic society cannot help us. There must be systematic social order: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, cātur-varṇyam, and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. Sannyāsa is not voluntary, but it is compulsory. At the last stage one must take sannyāsa. After fiftieth year one must take to vānaprastha, vanaṁ vrajet.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Janmanā brāhmaṇo guruḥ. As soon as you take birth, brāhmaṇa is your guru. So where is brāhmaṇa? Tad-vijñānarthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Where is that guru? Therefore the society, chaotic condition.... As soon as you take birth, you have to accept brāhmaṇa guru. So there must be brāhmaṇas. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ māyā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). There must be brāhmaṇas. Otherwise where is human society? It is animal society. In the animal society they are clever, enjoy. "How! How! How! How!" Jackals and tigers and big, this animal, that animal, they are everything. Where is the brāhmaṇa? This is the first time attempt is being made—"There must be brāhmaṇas"—this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. They do not know the aim of life, how it should be organized, what kind of members there should be. No knowledge. Therefore I have challenged that "Your brain is filled up with stool. You do not know how human society is happy." Here is janmanā brāhmaṇo guruḥ. So where is brāhmaṇa? Janmanā brāhmaṇo guruḥ.

Room Conversation With Bharadvaja -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bharadvāja: We're also showing that human life means responsibility. Even on an ordinary level we are showing that a man may break a law and he's punished, but a dog, he's not punished for breaking man's law. He may cross the street in the wrong place, he is not punished by the law, but the man is. Animals are walking without clothes, but if a man goes out in the street without clothes, he's arrested. So we are making the point here that man is held responsible for his actions, whereas animal is not. And then we show... The conclusion of this is "Therefore human life has responsibility to engage in the pursuit of knowledge and advancing, not degrading himself." Then we want to show that misuse of this human form of life, or giving up that responsibility, has created a chaos in the world, that the world has become full of madness and fear and pain, and the whole civilization is misguided. We want to show on film, side by side, U.N. politicians barking in U.N. and cats and dogs barking in the street.

Prabhupāda: That is explained by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Māyār bośe, jāccho bese.

Bharadvāja: Khāccho...

Prabhupāda: Khāccho hābuḍubu bhāi. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's song. Those who have eyes to see, they will see all of them being washed away by the waves of māyā, hābuḍubu.

Bharadvāja: Then we want to make another point, that in spite of so much chaos, there is solution, and that solution is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And we show a scene from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. On the bank of Yamunā, Parīkṣit Mahārāja is there and so many sages, and he's inquiring from Śukadeva Gosvāmī.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversation With Bharadvaja -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Khāccho hābuḍubu bhāi. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's song. Those who have eyes to see, they will see all of them being washed away by the waves of māyā, hābuḍubu.

Bharadvāja: Then we want to make another point, that in spite of so much chaos, there is solution, and that solution is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And we show a scene from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. On the bank of Yamunā, Parīkṣit Mahārāja is there and so many sages, and he's inquiring from Śukadeva Gosvāmī.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Bharadvāja: And Śukadeva Gosvāmī begins to instruct him. And he explains the whole process of how the living entity has come under the control of māyā and how he can become extricated. This is a theatrical piece. There will be some animation.

Prabhupāda: The second chapter. Find out the verses.

Bhakti-caru: Second chapter? Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Yaṁ pravrajantam.

Page Title:Chaos (Conversations)
Compiler:Vraj Kishori, Partha-sarathi, Rishab
Created:03 of Dec, 2008
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=87, Let=0
No. of Quotes:87