To accept guru means whatever guru says, you have to accept. Otherwise, don't make guru. Don't make a fashion. You must be ready. That is called prapannam. Tad viddhi praṇipātena (BG 4.34). You can understand simply by surrendering, not to test guru. "I shall test him, how, how much he knows." Then what is the use of making guru? No. Therefore Arjuna says that: "Besides You, there is nobody else who can actually satisfy me in this perplexed condition." Yac chokam ucchoṣaṇam indriyāṇām (BG 2.8). "My senses are being dried up." Because the superficial senses... That are not actually senses. Real sense is within. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanam (CC Madhya 19.170). We have to serve Kṛṣṇa, Hṛṣīkeśa... Kṛṣṇa is real, and we have to come to that position of reality. Then we can serve Kṛṣṇa. Hṛṣīkeṇa. Tat paratvena nirmalam. When our senses are purified. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ, manasas tu paro buddhir (BG 3.42). These are different stages. This bodily concept of life means senses. But when you transcend these senses, you come to the mental platform. When you transcend the mental platform, you come to the intellectual platform. When you come to the intellectual platform, when you transcend, then you come to the spiritual platform. That is spiritual form. There are different grades and steps. In the gross bodily platform we demand pratyakṣa-jñānam. Pratyakṣa means direct perception. There are different stages of knowledge. Pratyakṣa, aparokṣa, pratyakṣa, parokṣa, aparokṣa, adhokṣaja, aprakṛta. These are different stages of knowledge. So knowledge acquired in the bodily platform, direct perception, is not real knowledge. Therefore, we can challenge these scientists, so-called scientists. Their basic principle of knowledge is on the bodily concept of life, pratyakṣa, experimental knowledge. Experimental knowledge means this gross sense perception. That is experimental. Pratyakṣa. Everyone says: "We do not see God." God is not such a subject matter that you can see with this pratyakṣa, direct perception. God's another name is Anubhāva. Anubhāva. Just like in this room we do not see the sun directly. But we know that there is sun. It is daytime. How do you know it? You do not see. But there are other processes by which you can experience. That is called aparokṣa. Pratyakṣa parokṣa aparokṣa. In this way, Kṛṣṇa consciousness means adhokṣaja and aprakṛta, beyond the senses. Therefore, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said: adhokṣaja. Where direct perception cannot reach. So where direct perception cannot reach, then how you can perceive anubhāva? That is śrota-panthā. That is śruti. You have to take knowledge from the Vedas. And the Vedic knowledge is explained by guru. Therefore one has to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme guru, or His representative. Then all these troubles, means ignorance, can be dissipated. Yac chokam ucchoṣaṇam indriyāṇām (BG 2.8).
Challenging scientists
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Srimad-Bhagavatam
SB Canto 7
Hiraṇyakaśipu became the conqueror of the entire universe. Indeed, that great demon conquered all the planets in the three worlds-upper, middle and lower-including the planets of the human beings, the Gandharvas, the Garuḍas, the great serpents, the Siddhas, Cāraṇas and Vidyādharas, the great saints, Yamarāja, the Manus, the Yakṣas, the Rākṣasas, the Piśācas and their masters, and the masters of the ghosts and Bhūtas. He defeated the rulers of all the other planets where there are living entities and brought them under his control. Conquering the abodes of all, he seized their power and influence.
The word garuḍa in this verse indicates that there are planets of great birds like Garuḍa. Similarly, the word uraga indicates that there are planets of enormous serpents. Such a description of the various planets of the universe may challenge modern scientists who think that all planets but this earth are vacant. These scientists claim to have launched excursions to the moon, where they have found no living entities but only big craters full of dust and stone, although in fact the moon is so brilliant that it acts like the sun in illuminating the entire universe. Of course, it is not possible to convince modern scientists of the Vedic information about the universe. Nonetheless, we are not very much impressed by the words of scientists who say that all other planets are vacant and that only the earth is full of living entities.
My dear King Yudhiṣṭhira, once upon a time the King of the demons, Hiraṇyakaśipu, took his son Prahlāda on his lap and very affectionately inquired: My dear son, please let me know what you think is the best of all the subjects you have studied from your teachers.
Hiraṇyakaśipu did not ask his young son anything that would be very difficult for him to answer; instead, he gave the boy a chance to speak plainly about whatever he thought might be best. Prahlāda Mahārāja, of course, being a perfect devotee, knew everything and could say what the best part of life is. In the Vedas it is said, yasmin vijñāte samam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati: if one properly understands God, he can understand any subject matter very nicely. Sometimes we have to challenge big scientists and philosophers, but by the grace of Kṛṣṇa we emerge successful. It is impossible, practically speaking, for ordinary men to challenge scientists or philosophers concerning genuine knowledge, but a devotee can challenge them because the best of everything is known to a devotee by the grace of Kṛṣṇa. As confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā (10.11):
- teṣām evānukampārtham
- aham ajñāna-jaṁ tamaḥ
- nāśayāmy ātma-bhāva-stho
- jñāna-dīpena bhāsvatā
Kṛṣṇa, who is situated in the core of everyone's heart as the Supersoul, dissipates all the ignorance from the heart of a devotee. As a special favor, He enlightens the devotee with all knowledge by putting before him the torch of light. Prahlāda Mahārāja, therefore, knew the best of knowledge, and when his father inquired from him, Prahlāda gave him that knowledge. Prahlāda Mahārāja was able to solve the most difficult parts of problems because of his advanced Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore he replied as follows.
SB Canto 10.1 to 10.13
One who considers his visible body, which is a product of the three modes of nature, to be independent of the soul is unaware of the basis of existence, and therefore he is a rascal. Those who are learned have rejected his conclusion because one can understand through full discussion that with no basis in soul, the visible body and senses would be insubstantial. Nonetheless, although his conclusion has been rejected, a foolish person considers it a reality.
Without the basic principle of soul, the body cannot be produced. So-called scientists have tried in many ways to produce a living body in their chemical laboratories, but no one has been able to do it because unless the spirit soul is present, a body cannot be prepared from material elements. Since scientists are now enamored of theories about the chemical composition of the body, we have challenged many scientists to make even a small egg. The chemicals in eggs can be found very easily. There is a white substance and a yellow substance, covered by a shell, and modern scientists should very easily be able to duplicate all this. But even if they were to prepare such an egg and put it in an incubator, this man-made chemical egg would not produce a chicken. The soul must be added because there is no question of a chemical combination for life. Those who think that life can exist without the soul have therefore been described here as abudhaḥ, foolish rascals.
Again, there are those who reject the body, regarding it as insubstantial. They are of the same category of fools. One can neither reject the body nor accept it as substantial. The substance is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and both the body and the soul are energies of the Supreme Godhead, as described by the Lord Himself in Bhagavad-gītā (7.4-5):
- bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ
- khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca
- ahaṅkāra itīyaṁ me
- bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā
- apareyam itas tv anyāṁ
- prakṛtiṁ viddhi me parām
- jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho
- yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat
"Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego—all together these eight comprise My separated material energies. But besides this inferior nature, O mighty-armed Arjuna, there is a superior energy of Mine, which consists of all living entities who are struggling with material nature and are sustaining the universe."
The body, therefore, has a relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, just as the soul does. Since both of them are energies of the Lord, neither of them is false, because they come from the reality. One who does not know this secret of life is described as abudhaḥ. According to the Vedic injunctions, aitadātmyam idaṁ sarvam, sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma: everything is the Supreme Brahman. Therefore, both the body and the soul are Brahman, since matter and spirit emanate from Brahman.
Not knowing the conclusions of the Vedas, some people accept the material nature as substance, and others accept the spirit soul as substance, but actually Brahman is the substance. Brahman is the cause of all causes. The ingredients and the immediate cause of this manifested material world are Brahman, and we cannot make the ingredients of this world independent of Brahman. Furthermore, since the ingredients and the immediate cause of this material manifestation are Brahman, both of them are truth, satya; there is no validity to the expression brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. The world is not false.
Jñānīs reject this world, and foolish persons accept this world as reality, and in this way they are both misguided. Although the body is not as important as the soul, we cannot say that it is false. Yet the body is temporary, and only foolish, materialistic persons, who do not have full knowledge of the soul, regard the temporary body as reality and engage in decorating this body. Both of these pitfalls—rejection of the body as false and acceptance of the body as all in all—can be avoided when one is fully situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If we regard this world as false, we fall into the category of asuras, who say that this world is unreal, with no foundation and no God in control (asatyam apratiṣṭhaṁ te jagad āhur anīśvaram). As described in the Sixteenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, this is the conclusion of demons.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta
CC Madhya-lila
“In this universe there are limitless living entities in 8,400,000 species, and all are wandering within this universe.
This is a challenge to so-called scientists and philosophers who presume that there are living entities on this planet only. So-called scientists are going to the moon, and they say that there is no life there. This does not tally with Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's version. He says that everywhere within the universe there are unlimited numbers of living entities in 8,400,000 different forms. In the Bhagavad-gītā (2.24) we find that the living entities are sarva-gata, which means that they can go anywhere. This indicates that there are living entities everywhere. They exist on land, in water, in air, in fire and in ether. Thus there are living entities in all types of material elements. Since the entire material universe is composed of five elements—earth, water, fire, air and ether—why should there be living entities on one planet and not others? Such a foolish version can never be accepted by Vedic students. From the Vedic literatures we understand that there are living entities on each and every planet, regardless of whether the planet is composed of earth, water, fire or air. These living entities may not have the same forms that are found on this planet earth, but they have different forms composed of different elements. Even on this earth we can see that the forms of land animals are different from the forms of aquatics. According to the circumstance, living conditions differ, but undoubtedly there are living entities everywhere. Why should we deny the existence of living entities on this or that planet? Those who have claimed to have gone to the moon have not gone there, or else with their imperfect vision they cannot actually perceive the particular type of living entities there.
The living entities are described as ananta, or unlimited; nonetheless, they are said to belong to 8,400,000 species. As stated in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa:
- jala-jā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati
- kṛmayo rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ pakṣiṇāṁ daśa-lakṣaṇam
- triṁśal-lakṣāṇi paśavaḥ catur-lakṣāṇi mānuṣāḥ
"There are 900,000 species living in the water. There are also 2,000,000 nonmoving living entities (sthāvara), such as trees and plants. There are also 1,100,000 species of insects and reptiles, and there are 1,000,000 species of birds. As far as quadrupeds are concerned, there are 3,000,000 varieties, and there are 400,000 human species." Some of these species may exist on one planet and not on another, but in any case within all the planets of the universe—and even in the sun—there are living entities. This is the verdict of the Vedic literatures. As the Bhagavad-gītā (2.20) confirms:
- na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin
- nāyaṁ bhūtvā bhavitā vā na bhūyaḥ
- ajo nityaḥ śāśvato ‘yaṁ purāṇo
- na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre
"For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain."
Since the living entities are never annihilated, they simply transmigrate from one life form to another. Thus there is an evolution of forms according to the degree of developed consciousness. One experiences different degrees of consciousness in different forms. A dog's consciousness is different from a man's. Even within a species we find that a father's consciousness is different from his son's and that a child's consciousness is different from a youth's. Just as we find different forms, we find different states of consciousness. When we see different states of consciousness, we may take it for granted that the bodies are different. In other words, different types of bodies depend on different states of consciousness. This is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā (8.6):
- yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajanty ante kalevaram
- taṁ tam evaiti kaunteya sadā tad bhāva-bhāvitaḥ
"One's consciousness at the time of death determines one's type of body in the next life." This is the process of transmigration of the soul. A variety of bodies is already there; we change from one body to another in terms of our consciousness.
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
To accept guru means whatever guru says, you have to accept. Otherwise, don't make guru. Don't make a fashion. You must be ready. That is called prapannam. Tad viddhi praṇipātena (BG 4.34). You can understand simply by surrendering, not to test guru. "I shall test him, how, how much he knows." Then what is the use of making guru? No. Therefore Arjuna says that: "Besides You, there is nobody else who can actually satisfy me in this perplexed condition." Yac chokam ucchoṣaṇam indriyāṇām (BG 2.8). "My senses are being dried up." Because the superficial senses... That are not actually senses. Real sense is within. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanam (CC Madhya 19.170). We have to serve Kṛṣṇa, Hṛṣīkeśa... Kṛṣṇa is real, and we have to come to that position of reality. Then we can serve Kṛṣṇa. Hṛṣīkeṇa. Tat paratvena nirmalam. When our senses are purified. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ, manasas tu paro buddhir (BG 3.42). These are different stages. This bodily concept of life means senses. But when you transcend these senses, you come to the mental platform. When you transcend the mental platform, you come to the intellectual platform. When you come to the intellectual platform, when you transcend, then you come to the spiritual platform. That is spiritual form. There are different grades and steps. In the gross bodily platform we demand pratyakṣa-jñānam. Pratyakṣa means direct perception. There are different stages of knowledge. Pratyakṣa, aparokṣa, pratyakṣa, parokṣa, aparokṣa, adhokṣaja, aprakṛta. These are different stages of knowledge. So knowledge acquired in the bodily platform, direct perception, is not real knowledge. Therefore, we can challenge these scientists, so-called scientists. Their basic principle of knowledge is on the bodily concept of life, pratyakṣa, experimental knowledge. Experimental knowledge means this gross sense perception. That is experimental. Pratyakṣa. Everyone says: "We do not see God." God is not such a subject matter that you can see with this pratyakṣa, direct perception. God's another name is Anubhāva. Anubhāva. Just like in this room we do not see the sun directly. But we know that there is sun. It is daytime. How do you know it? You do not see. But there are other processes by which you can experience. That is called aparokṣa. Pratyakṣa parokṣa aparokṣa. In this way, Kṛṣṇa consciousness means adhokṣaja and aprakṛta, beyond the senses. Therefore, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said: adhokṣaja. Where direct perception cannot reach. So where direct perception cannot reach, then how you can perceive anubhāva? That is śrota-panthā. That is śruti. You have to take knowledge from the Vedas. And the Vedic knowledge is explained by guru. Therefore one has to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme guru, or His representative. Then all these troubles, means ignorance, can be dissipated. Yac chokam ucchoṣaṇam indriyāṇām (BG 2.8).
...Nobel Prize. He came to California University. So he was lecturing on his theory that life has begun by combination of certain chemicals. He has mentioned those chemicals, but in that meeting, there was a member. He's my student, my disciple. He's doctor in chemistry. He has learned something about our philosophy. So he challenged that gentleman that: "If I give you all these chemicals, whether you can produce life?" The answer was: "That I cannot say." The answer was not very distinct. Actually, that is not the fact. If the scientist says that life begins from chemicals, wherefrom the chemicals came? The next question will be. You cannot get chemicals without being supplied by somebody else. So we are presenting this theory. People are being misled. It is a great question at the present moment, that the scientists says that from matter life begins. We are challenging: "No. From life, matter comes." Just the opposite.
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
Pradyumna: "Indeed, human life begins when religion begins. Eating, sleeping, fearing, and mating are the four principles of animal life. These are common both to animals and to human beings. But religion is the extra function of the human beings. Without religion, human life is no better than animal life. Therefore, in human societies there is some form of religion which aims at self-realization and which makes reference to man's eternal relationship with God."
Prabhupāda: Now, at the present moment, religion is being sacrificed. So it is animal society. The other day, the gentleman was repeating, "Then we are animals." I said that "You are not only animals. There are other animals. You are Western animals; there are Eastern animals." They're all animals! We can challenge any scientist, any philosopher. Because they're godless, there is no religion, they're all animals. This is our declaration: animals. We don't take as human being. They're simply animals. Let them prove that they are not animals. Let them come here and prove that they're not animals. Mmm.
There is a small story. Perhaps I have narrated this story sometimes ago, that in a school... Formerly there was no charge for school. Now everything has become business. Formerly a brāhmaṇa, he'll start a school. Brāhmaṇa is paṭhana pāṭhana. His business is to become learned himself and to distribute his knowledge, education, to everyone free. This is brāhmaṇa. The brāhmaṇa, and the opposite word is kṛpaṇa. Kṛpaṇa means miser. A miser, he has got money, but he does not spend. He keeps it only. And brāhmaṇa means he has got knowledge and he distributes for others' benefit. That is brāhmaṇa. Therefore we are making every one of our disciples brāhmaṇa, not that he should simply know himself what is God. No. He must distribute the knowledge also. Go from town to town, village to village, and try to convince these rascals what is God. They simply write, "In God We Trust," but they do not know what is God or how to trust, nothing. Now let them know it scientifically. Here is the movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. What is this movement? To know God. Of course, we cannot know God perfectly. God is so unlimited. Still, as far as possible, we can know, as God speaks Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā.
So this is meant for the brāhmaṇa. Therefore we offer second initiation, sacred thread, that one should become brāhmaṇa, not a kṛpaṇa, miser, no. One should be thoroughly learned what is God and teach others how to trust Him. That is brāhmaṇa. Simply slogan, "We Trust In God," and all rascals and fools, that is not good. Now we should take up this point, that "You write, 'In God We trust.' What is God? Do you know what is God?" Ask the President Nixon rascal. He will not be able to. Then who will know? If the president does not know, how the people will know? Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ lokas tad anuvartate (BG 3.21). Śreṣṭha, the chief man, the leader Just like I am leading this society, so what I shall do, naturally it will be followed: "Prabhupāda does it." So that is applicable everywhere. So if the president knows what is God, how to trust Him... Why shall I trust unless I know you properly? It is natural. If somebody says, "Trust this man," so my next question, "I must first of all know this man; then I shall trust." Similarly, if you do not know what is God, what is the meaning of your trust? It is all childish, slogan. Therefore the condition is so deteriorated. Everywhere, not only here, they have no knowledge of God. We can challenge anyone, any so-called scientist, philosopher, politician, big, big men. They know only wine, women, meat-eating. That's all. This much their knowledge. But who knows God? Nobody. Ultimately, the rascal says, "I am God." Failing to know God, he become himself God.
So one should be inquisitive to know "How this physical body has come into existence, covering myself, the spiritual body?" Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. So to understand this science, Kapiladeva is explaining the physical Sāṅkhya philosophy, how things are developing. To understand that... The same thing: to understand the simple thing, that "I am not this body. The body has developed from the soul." Therefore we challenge the material scientists. They say that the soul has developed from the body. No. Soul has not developed from the body, but the body has developed from the soul. Just the opposite. The material scientists, they think that combination of these physical elements creates a situation where is..., when there is living, life symptoms. No. That is not. The real is that, fact is, that the spirit soul is there. They are wandering all over the universe. Brahmāṇḍa brahman. Brahmāṇḍa means all over the universe. The spirit soul is sometimes in one species of life; sometimes he's another species of life. Sometimes he is in this planet; sometimes another planet. In this way, according to his karma, he is wandering. That is his material life. So ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite (CC Madhya 19.151). He is loitering, wandering without any aim. "What is the aim of life? Why I have put into this condition, accepting this material body, the source of all miseries?"—these questions should be asked. This is called brahma-jijñāsā. And that should be answered properly. Then our life will be successful. Otherwise it is as useless as the body of a cat or a dog—no understanding, mūḍha. Mūḍha.
So jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva. Then what will I get I become humble? Yes? Then what is my next duty? San-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām. You just try to hear from the saintly person, devotee. San-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām. Then what will be the result? Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir. This hearing, becoming humble and meek... And if we hear from the devotee who is actually self-realized, one who has seen God through the śāstra, if you hear from him... And never mind what you are. You may be a brāhmaṇa, you may be kṣatriya, you may be śūdra, you may be sannyāsī, you may be so on, so on, you may be American, you may be Indian, whatever you may be, that doesn't matter. Remain in your place. Sthāne sthitāḥ. Simply hear. Śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ. Then one day, what will be the result? That God is unconquerable, nobody can conquer, you'll be conquered. Simply by hearing, He'll be... This is the process. Therefore he says śuśruma, humble and meek and hear. Then you'll understand God. Then you'll understand what is religion, then you'll understand everything. Not only religion and God, but everything. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam eva vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you simply know God or Kṛṣṇa, then everything you know. Just like we are sometimes challenging big, big philosophers, big, big scientists, big, big psychologists, and so on, so on. What is the strength? Because we have learned something about Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is Vedic injunction. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam eva vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you have learned what is God, what is Kṛṣṇa, then you learn everything. This is knowledge.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
We should seek the shelter of the lotus feet of guru. Then everything... And vede gāya yāṅhāra carita. It is not that it is sentiment that one has to become very strong devotee of guru. Therefore Narottama dāsa Tha..., vede gāya yāṅhāra carita. Not that I am talking something nonsense. It is because... Śruti-pramāṇam. Whatever we talk, it must be supported by Vedic injunction. Then it is right. Just like we sometimes challenge these big, big scientists and others, and what is our strength? I am not a scientist, but how I can challenge? The Veda gāya. We have got evidence from the Vedas. Just like so many people are thinking that the moon planet is first. We are challenging, "No, moon planet is second." What is the strength? The strength is Vedic knowledge. We cannot accept it. So vede gāya yāṅhāra carita. Vedic knowledge is so perfect that you can challenge so many scientists. Yes. If it is not in accordance to the Vedic knowledge, then it is... We do not accept. If it is not to the Kṛṣṇa's instruction, we reject immediately. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). As soon as we see that one man is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, then we immediately group him in four classes: duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhama, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. Finished, that's all. "No, I am learned, and you are nothing. You have not... You have no degrees of university. I have got degrees." "Yes, that is all right, but your degrees and knowledge have been taken away by māyā. You remain in darkness. Ye timire jeti (?). You remain in the darkness." That's all.
You cannot improve a single inch than you are destined. That is not possible. That is not possible. If you want to increase your so-called happiness, then you simply waste your time. That is Prahlāda Mahārāja's instruction. Na tat prayāsaṁ kartavyam. "I am not in a good position economically. Let me try to improve it." That you cannot. Otherwise in New York City, so opulent, so materially advanced, why we see so many men in the Central Park lying on the bench? Why? They do not belong to the poor nation or poor city. Still, because he's destined, he must lie down there. Maybe he is rich man's son or born in rich nation, but because he's destined to suffer, he must lie down there. Because he's destined to suffer, he must become a hippie.
So you cannot stop it. You cannot stop it. That is not possible. Therefore those who are advanced in knowledge, they do not try for all these nonsense, improving material condition. It will not make happy; it will increase problems. The so-called happiness will increase problems, and you have to deal with that problem, then again another problem, another problem. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Just like they are trying to control over the laws of material nature. That is impossible. It will never be possible. If you solve one question, then you will have to meet with thousands of other questions. It is not possible. So... Therefore Vedic literature says that "Do not waste your time in that way. Better you utilize your valuable time to understand Kṛṣṇa. Then your life is successful." Yasmin vijñāte sarvam eva vijñātaṁ bhavanti. If you simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa, then you'll understand everything very nicely. Just like we sometimes challenge the big, big scientists, philosophers, psychologists, but we are not psychologist or scientist. Ten years before, in my Easy Journey to Other Planet, I have written that "This moon-going attempt is childish and waste of time." And still we are challenging that "Mars-going, so-called, it will also fail." Write it: It will fail. Not that process. So how we are saying? How we are challenging these big, big scientists? Because we know from the Vedic literature that it is not possible to go to the moon planet or Mars in that way. It is not possible. You have to qualify yourself. Just like to come to America one has to qualify himself for the proper visa, passport, and so many other things, bank balance, this, that. How you can go to the other? They are higher planetary system. So this is all childish. But if you want to go at all, then it is possible if you follow the proper process.
So according to the Vedic system, the difference between atheist and theist is that the atheist means who do not believe in the version of the śāstra. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ na sa siddhim avāpnoti (BG 16.23). So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not blind. Don't think wrongly. We are confident. We sometimes challenge big, big scientists. On what ground? Not whimsically, but on the ground of śāstra. So we may not please everyone, but we cannot go out of this scope. We know that in the moon planet, in the Mars planet and all other planets, Jupiter and others, there are living entities, there is a predominating deity in each and every planet. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). So if there is no living entity in the sun planet, how there is Vivasvān, the sun-god or the predominating deity in the sun planet? So we cannot believe this version that there is no living entity in the sun, moon, or... There are living entity... Full of, janakīrṇa, this word is used. Congested. Just like here in this planet we are congested: so many living entities, different varieties. Similarly, the same congestion is there in all other planets. So do not try to poke your nose which is inconceivable. And that also not assertion. You say, "Perhaps," "Maybe," "Millions of years," "It might have been." All suggestion. So if you want knowledge, then you have to consult this Vedic knowledge. Veda means knowledge, the source of knowledge. That is called Veda. And the ultimate knowledge is Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). That is the version.
Arrival Addresses and Talks
So this life is not very congenial to the human society. The chaotic situation of the present human society is due to that there is no intelligent class of men. This is our challenge. The so-called scientists, so-called philosophers, they have no intelligence. Therefore the whole society (is) in the chaotic condition. So these boys and girls, American boys and girls, they're being taught, instructed to become first-class, intelligent man. This is the movement. But without intelligence... Just like your brain, if he, if brain is crazy, your body may be very strong, but that is useless because there is no brain. So at the present moment, especially in this Kali-yuga, there is lack of intelligent class of men, and this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is creating some intelligent class of men. And if other class of men follow their instruction, then the whole society (will be) peaceful, and they'll be happy in this life and they'll be happy in the next life. This is the sum and substance of our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Those who are interested will kindly come to our temple here in... We have got so many temples, and we have got our temple here also, New York. And there are preachers also. We have got good preachers. And educated boys and girls. We have got books. So my only request is that you take some interest, active interest in this movement, try to understand it, and if you cooperate, the whole human society will be happy.
Conversations and Morning Walks
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Devotee (2): Perfect knowledge cannot be received with imperfect senses. Only through perfect senses can perfect knowledge be received.
Prabhupāda: Therefore it should be concluded that the so-called scientists, astronomers, they are all imperfect, and they are passing off the scientists as learned. So you can challenge them, "What is the guarantee that your knowledge is perfect?" Actually it is not. They do not know how the stars are moving. They are always imperfect. Simply putting some theories. They say all this, Darwin's theory and this theory, that theory. They are simply speculating on imperfect senses, and therefore they're cheating, because the conditioned soul has got a tendency to cheat others. If one can cheat others, he thinks himself as very intelligent. The conditioned souls, they commit mistake, they are illusioned, they cheat, and their senses are imperfect. This is the, the four condition. Therefore, if we receive knowledge from the conditioned soul, there is no possibility of getting perfect knowledge. If by nature you are cheater, then how I can expect fair dealings? It is to be understood that we cannot have any fair dealings with this conditioned soul. And he'll protest.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ, harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathena... Manorathena (SB 5.18.12). These rascals, they are simply speculating on the mental platform. That's all. Manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). They are entrapped by the external energy, by mental speculation. They have no value. All these scientists, philosophers, they're on the mental platform, speculating. I am certi... I say this. You say: "No, I say this." You see. Who is correct?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It doesn't matter.
Prabhupāda: No, it doesn't mat... Therefore they're all madmen. You can speak in your own way. I'll speak in my own way and another fool thinks that both of them are scientists. They do not agree. Still he's scientist. Just see. Cheaters and the cheated. Somebody's cheating and somebody's becoming cheated. The whole society's the combination of cheaters and cheated. That's all. I see both of them, they do not agree. Just like they have rejected religion because two religionists, they do not agree. So why not these rascal scientists? They do not agree. Just see. They are so fool. But still they are after that. Their modern people they have rejected religion because they say that one religionist does not agree with another religionist. So there is no... Skepticism. So why not about the scientists? Just see. Everywhere you will find contradiction. Therefore anyone... and we are find out this contradiction because we have little attachment for Kṛṣṇa. Others cannot find out. We are challenging scientists, philosophers, although we are teeny person, because we have little attachment for Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, who is detecting their follies? Nobody. The scientist's follies, the philosopher follies, their contradiction... A devotee can find out. Paśyanti jñāna-cakṣuṣā. Unless one is highly enlightened, one cannot find out these defects, contradiction. Paśyanti jñāna-cakṣuṣā. We have got simple formulas in the śāstras. Simply on the basis of those formulas... Whole Vedic literature is like that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the modern scientific research means to increase the demands of the body, the bodily demands.
Prabhupāda: Yes, what they can do? Because they're rascal, foolish, just like children, they'll simply make their body dirty. That's all. He does not know anything. If you bring a small children, what they will do? They'll take this... You see. he does not know anything. He's a rascal. Similarly you scientists, you are all rascals. You do not know anything. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed, making research. What research you can do? You do not know anything. What research you can do? And Vedic injunction is: yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3). If you know the Absolute Truth, then all other things become known. But you do not know what is Absolute Truth. Therefore you are in ignorance. If you know one thing, then you... Just like you are talking. We are not official scientists or philosopher or anything. But why you are challenging, you are talking so boldly? Because we know one thing, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we can say so boldly and challenge anyone. I'm not a D.A.C. like you. How I can challenge you? I'm challenging you. How? Because I know Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is the statement of Veda. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you know Kṛṣṇa, the Absolute Truth, then all other things will be known automatically. It is such a thing. We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, challenging all kinds of men in the society, so many scientists are coming, so many psychologists coming. So how we are confident to talk with him? Because we have learned little about Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Is it not? You are a qualified scientist. Why I challenge you? Not that because you are my disciple, you are accepting all my challenges. You have got your reasons. You are not a fool. So how it is possible? Practically, how it is possible? Because we are trying to know little about Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Therefore this Vedic injunction, yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati, yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. These statements are there. If you get Kṛṣṇa, then you will not hanker after any more profit. Bas. All profit is there. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābham. If you get Kṛṣṇa, then all other kinds of profit, you'll not hanker after. And what kind of profit this is? Yasmin sthito na duḥkhena guruṇāpi vicālyate (Bg. 6.20-23). If one is situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, in the greatest calamity of this world, he'll not be disturbed. This is the greatest profit. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. A big giant, Hiraṇyakaśipu, is putting him always in difficulty, but he's confident: "Yes, there is Kṛṣṇa." A five years old boy. He's not at all disturbed. Father is giving poison. "All right, give me poison." And throwing him from the hill on down. But he is steady. How it is possible? Na duḥkhena guruṇāpi vicālyate. Guru. Guru means heavy, very heavy difficulties. But na vicālyate. He's not perturbed, not disturbed. How it is possible? It is such a thing, that if you know Kṛṣṇa, you know everything. If you are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you are not disturbed in the heaviest type of calamity. So these things should be given to the human society. One thing. That will make his life perfect. Is it not?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are just speculating that life started spontaneously. There was a time, they said, it started all spontaneously, only once.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But life, whether begins from life or matter? That is the question. You are saying that life started from matter. We are saying life started from life. How to make solution of this question? For life starting from life, we can see practically. Birds, beasts, human beings, they are begetting children, eggs. The life from life, he's a living entity. That we have got proof. But where is the proof that life started from the matter? Where is that proof? Just give one instance that "Here is a life starting from matter." Where is that instance? Anyway, at least one audience protested. It will be recorded. And he said, "I do not know."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Oh, then what kind of scientist he is? So they know that you are theologist?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In the department everybody knows. (laughter) There is one theoretical chemist. His name is Max Muster (?). He is from Germany. He is a theoretical chemist. Once I invited him to come to Los Angeles to talk with Prabhupāda. He agreed, and but then he told me that he will think for one day whether he will come or not. Then next day he told me that he is afraid. "I cannot come because I am afraid that I will be put on the walls." (laughter) But he is very philosophical. He believes in God. He has some... That's why if you talk with him, very nice.
Prabhupāda: So that is also nice. We are not afraid of meeting any philosopher or scientist, but they are afraid. That is our credit. All scientists know that they are on the wrong basis, but because they are scientists, they say like that. That is their position. They do not believe in their own statement. Therefore he said, "I do not know."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because there is no solid background.
Prabhupāda: No. (pause, japa) You and Dr. Rao just make a combination, world-touring. I shall give you all expenditure. And go to the universities, scientists, and talk with them. Our kīrtana party also will go. We challenge all scientists, "Come on." We shall pay all expenditure. Ask Dr. Rao to come and join. Just like in Calcutta University, all the students... No, one leader student, he came. He talked about economic development, and he said that "Our students did not derive any faith by your theological statement." So I told them that "Because you are all rascals, therefore you could not." I told them freely. Because in the Bhagavad-gītā... Because they are student of Sanskrit. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). "So you are amongst these. You are duṣkṛtinas, sinful, lowest of the mankind, and the university is responsible for creating such rascals." So professors clapped and later on they said, "Swamiji, you have rightly said." All the professors said.
Guest (1): I am very envious of them because they have got this guru's grace on them.
Prabhupāda: (Chuckling) Yes.
Guest (1): This guru's grace is working. It is invisible, you see. This is all-powerful.
Prabhupāda: No, you can get also, provided you take it. (laughter) Guru is not miser. (laughter)
Guest (1): (indistinct) is, Gurudeva you see, I want that...
Prabhupāda: The one thing is they take it. Others will not take it. That is the difference. If... There is a picture; my Guru Mahārāja has..., one man has fallen in a deep well, and he's crying "Save me!" So another man dropped a rope, that "You catch it. I shall carry you." Then he'll not catch it. Then how he can be drawn. So... (break) ...mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). "There is nothing more superior than Me." We are preaching the same thing, that "You are searching after God. You are, some of you are disgusted that 'There is no God,' but here is God. You take His name. You take His address. You take His daily activities. Everything is there." And that is our mission. And we started this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in 1966. So when I registered this society, somebody suggested that "Why not make it 'God consciousness?' " And no, I want to give definitely what is God. God, they have got different conception. But here is God. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). That is the Vedic injunction. "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." And when He was present, He proved it, that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So we have not introduced any new system of religion. That is not a fact. We have simply placed, administered, the same thing which was spoken five thousand years ago. That's all. Five thousand years ago, Kṛṣṇa said that "There is nothing, no more superior authority than Me." We are preaching the same thing. The same old thing. Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). "You just surrender unto Me." Kṛṣṇa said that "Surrender unto Me," and we are speaking, "Surrender unto Kṛṣṇa;" same thing. Kṛṣṇa said that "I am the origin of everything." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). We are speaking the same thing, that the original source of everything is Kṛṣṇa. We are challenging the scientists also. They are of opinion that "Life has come from matter," and we are challenging, "No, life and matter, both have come from life." This is our challenge. So originally life, originally Kṛṣṇa, life. Not matter. Matter has come subsequently. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not a new movement. It is the old movement. At least, historically, five thousand years old. And we have got so many books. We have... Out of sixty volumes, we have published only about twelve volumes. So it's a great literature, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So everything is there; nothing new. We haven't got to make a new system of religion. It is already there. Simply people may kindly understand it. That is our proposition.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The difficulty arises in... We say, well, you have to grow old. And then we say the moon is so high above the sun. So...
Prabhupāda: So how can you deny it? First of all tell me. You have not gone there.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I haven't gone, but the argument...
Prabhupāda: No, no. The scientists. I challenge that he has not gone there.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (to someone:) Pay your obeisances.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. I have not gone, you have not gone, but I have got this authentic literature; you have nothing. So my position is better than yours. You are fool. You are befooled because you are simply contemplating. But I have got a definite literature, information. So my position is better than yours. Whose car is it? Oh, some of them are chanting? Jaya.
Harikeśa: Now they are inventing these different DNA and RNA molecules to change people by injecting them with these different things before they are born, making new people.
Prabhupāda: That is not very difficult thing. If you make some vegetable, if you add more sugar it becomes sweet. If you add more salt it becomes salty. That you can do. That is not very difficult. Our question is wherefrom the life comes? That is our… So they do not give any answer to this. That is their foolishness. What is that life? They say life developed from chemical. Now do it. By chemical combination make in one egg and give it to the fomenting machine. What is that? Fomenting machine? They have got heating machine?
Harikeśa: Incubator.
Prabhupāda: Incubator. Put it there. Then we shall accept your science. Why don’t you do that? Then your all theories are useless. This is practical.
Harikeśa: It seems much more practical to make a computer than to make an egg. I mean, a computer…
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, do it. And from that egg, you get chicken. Then I shall accept that you are scientist. Otherwise you are rascal, talking all madman's proposal. Do it. Ask them. Write in the paper that "Prabhupāda was speaking like that, a challenge to the scientist: "Is there any scientist who can make an egg which is put in the incubator and gradually it comes to become …""
Harikeśa: They will think we are completely crazy.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Well, then kick on their face, on their nose, rascal. We are crazy or you are crazy?
Devotee (3): How do we support our challenge to the scientists that they have not actually gone to the moon?
Prabhupāda: First proof is that they say that there is no life. That is foolishness. There is life. Because we find everywhere life, why not in the moon planet? And there are many others. The first challenge is this.
Devotee (3): They say that they have not seen the life, though.
Prabhupāda: But what you can see, rascal? Therefore we say you are rascals. Why do you believe your eyes? You cannot see so many things. We don't find any living entity in the ocean. Does it mean there is no living entity? So what is the value of your seeing? That is the defect. They believe in too much their eyes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...apaśyatām. They cannot see. They see only that the tongue is vibrating, the ear is hearing. And the dead man, the same ear is there, the tongue is there. Why there is no music? What they will answer?
Tejās: They say it's a chemical interaction.
Prabhupāda: What is that chemical? Eh? Why talk nonsense? Chemical reaction? Bring that chemical and let him hear again. What is the answer? Why do they say nonsense which he does not know? Chemical reaction, if it is chemical reaction, bring chemical and inject it. What is the answer?
Harikeśa: That chemical is very complicated. They haven't found...
Prabhupāda: Then you do not know. First of all admit you are talking nonsense. The chemical you do not know. Still you are talking nonsense. Therefore you are rascal. Why do you talk nonsense if you do not know? What is the answer? If you do not know, why do you talk just like wise man? Then you are a nonsense. Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś... (BG 2.11). You are talking like a very learned scientist, but you are a rascal, fool. Challenge them like that.
Tejās: They think that today they do not know...
Prabhupāda: "They think."
Tejās: ...but tomorrow, they think, will know.
Prabhupāda: That is another rascal point. Therefore I say, "Kick them on their face tomorrow." He's offering postdated check. (laughter) Eh? Even if you are coming of a very millionaire's family, but if you give me a check postdated, shall I accept it? A sane man? No. Bring cash; then talk. (laughter) So these rascals, they have no cash. They have got only paper, postdated check. And who will accept it unless one is another fool, rascal, another rascal.
Harikesa: Actually it's a wonderful challenge. This big, big scientist, big, big brain...
Prabhupāda: Big, big monkey. (laughter) "Big, big monkey, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy."
Harikesa: And we walk in and put an egg in front of him.
Prabhupāda: You do not know this? Baro baro bandolel, baro baro peṭ laṅkā dingate, matakare het.(?) (laughter) This translation was done by one big professor, of President's College, Professor Rowe. He was a big professor in the President's College. So these professors required to learn Bengali, so he translated, "Big, big monkey, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping melancholy." (break)
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Dr. Patel: How many of us are scientists here? He might help you also.
Prabhupāda: We know real scientist because we know the biggest scientist, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we are scientists. Without Him we don't claim to be scientists-fools, rascals. Ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tathā kim. He is everything. He doesn't require to. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, then you become scientist, philosopher. And I was never a scientist, so we challenge the scientists, and I have produced this scientist to challenge them. But I was never a scientist. That book is actually revolutionary amongst the scientists. Scientific Basis, you have read that?
Indian man: Yes, I have read.
Prabhupāda: Very nicely he has written, very, very nicely, from all scientific... He has challenged the scientists. He has clearly declared, "Darwin is wrong, and scientists, they do not know."
Prabhupāda: ...can you think about the living pulse which is beating, the heart, heart failure? Why don't you bring it into palpitation again? If you study that air.... You are.... Air you bring artificially. Push it. Why don't you do it if you are so great scientist? Is it very difficult? So in anything, air is fi.... Just like in the tire tube. Air is finished. Push it, air. It is all right. So do you think it is air, the palpitation? You are so foolish? And passing as a scientist. Air can be replaced. It is difficult? Just like tire tube air, a huge quantity to work. You immediately, within a second.... So why do you say, "Now, now the breathing is stopped." Breathing is stopped, air stopped. What is their answer? Hm?
Guru-kṛpā: They have no answer.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The cells have died.
Prabhupāda: Seller?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Tiny cells in the body have died.
Prabhupāda: Then don't say that "Breathing is stopped. Therefore he is dead." Don't talk nonsense. Why do you talk like that, "Now breathing is stopped. He's dead"? Talk in right language if you are scientist. Why you are talking like that, "The air is stopped. The breathing is stopped. Therefore dead"? That's not a fact. So you are stating which is not a fact. Why you claim that you are scientist? That is the challenge. Hm? Then again you come to the blood. What is blood? Red water. So if you say that this, that, so many jugglery of words, so manufacture. Water mix with the red color and give these, these so many rascal things.
Candanācārya: Śrīla Prabhupāda once said that if the moon is dirt and dust, how is it that it reflects the light of the sun so much that it lights up the whole planet?
Prabhupāda: Yes. The common sense. They have lost their common sense.
Candanācārya: It's so shiny that it lights up the whole earth planet at night.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Candanācārya: How can dirt reflect light like that?
Prabhupāda: That was my first question.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think that we should write a, we should publish a little book on this, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: If you can.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe one of the scientists.
Candanācārya: There are many scientists who agree.
Prabhupāda: Now our scientists are challenging, Svarūpa Dāmodara and others.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They could scientifically publish a book.
Candanācārya: There are scientists in England who agree that they didn't go to the planet.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Candanācārya: There are some scientists in England who agree with you that they did not go to the moon.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they did not. Simply propaganda. (japa)
Viśvakarmā: Yes, it's a very big exhibit, scientific achievements. (break) ...come and see it.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...their achievement, no more death? As soon as you ask this question, matte kara heṭ. Baḍo baḍo baḍo badora(?) baro baro pet laṅkā diṅgaya matte karo heṭ. "Big, big monkey, big, big, belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy." What scientific advancement? Do you think there will be no more death? Matte kore heṭ: (?)"Yes, we are trying." Answer them, "What is your achievement?" All achievement will be, remain in your back and you'll have to die. So what you have done, insurance, that you'll enjoy this? You'll be kicked out of the scene at any moment. What you have done for this? What is the answer? Mattaḥ kore heṭ "Yes, we are trying." (laughter) Nonsense, you are trying. And we have to see this nonsense. We are not so fool. And if they say, "What you are doing?" "Yes, we are doing that. How to conquer over death." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti, mām eti (BG 4.9). That is we are trying. That is real scientific. And what is method? Very simple: man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru mām evaiśyasi asaṁśayaḥ (BG 18.68). "Without any doubt, he comes to Me." This is science. Why shall I waste time? Svarūpa Dāmodara challenged one scientist in California that "If I give you the chemicals, can you manufacture life?" He said, "That I cannot say." What you have spoken all this nonsense? Mattaḥ kore heṭ. And when there is challenge, mattaḥ kore heṭ. Otherwise, baro baro bagara, baro baro phet, big, big monkey, big, big belly. And when the real question is there, mattaḥ kore het. Ceylon jumping, melancholy. Hanumān jumped over the ocean, so other monkeys, they also become very proud: "I am..., Hanumān is our leader, we can...," "Can you jump over Ceylon?" Mattaḥ het. (break) ...speak all these things, Indian villagers, they will immediately believe. One cobbler.... I think I narrated this story. Nārada Muni was going to Vaikuṇṭha. Did I say that?
Prabhupāda: Otherwise, it is not possible. That I explained this morning, panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyo vāyor athāpi manaso muni-puṅgavānām, so 'pyasti yat prapada-sīmny avincintya-tattve (Bs. 5.34). Without bhakti, if you go on speculating for many, many years with the speed of mind, if you want to go, still avincintya-tattve, it will remain inconceivable.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So what it means is that in order to understand this distinction between life and matter one must be a devotee.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We raise the question, we challenge these rascals because we are following the path of devotion. We are not scientists. And we could not challenge unless we were convinced. How it is possible? Suppose I am layman, how I am challenging these big, big scientists? It is not... Because we have known it through devotional service, so this is science. That is the difference.
Guest (2): If and when Kṛṣṇa wants the scientists to come up with the answer, then is when, only when they'll have the answer.
Prabhupāda: But Kṛṣṇa has already given to the chicken. (laughter) He's so unfortunate that Kṛṣṇa is not giving him the intelligence. He's so unfortunate. But the fortunate chicken has already got the intelligence. So at least the chicken is fortunate than these so-called scientists. That is our conclusion. He's so unfortunate that he doesn't get the fortune of the chicken. Mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti loko mām ajam avyayam (BG 7.25). He's a mūḍha, rascal. That's all. He's claiming something which is impossible. That is mūḍha. If somebody, if a child, sometimes childish nature, "Mother, give me that moon." It is possible mother can give the moon to the child? So mother cheats him. She gives him a mirror, "You see, here is a mirror, moon here." That's all. But is that moon? So a child may be satisfied with this class of moon, but one who is sane man, his father will not be satisfied. It is impossible. We give this challenge to any scientist, that "You are unnecessarily, uselessly working to produce life from chemicals." That is our challenge. "You cannot do it." (Hindi) So we challenge the so-called scientists that "You rascal, you cannot do it." It is not possible. (break)
Prabhupāda: Christian doctrine is not perfect. But symptoms of animal and symptoms of human being, primary necessities eating sleeping, mating, defense that is there, everywhere.
Rūpānuga: They may agree, but they'll say that this...
Prabhupāda: There is soul. As soon as there is living condition, there is soul. As soon as the body is dead, there is no soul. This is difference. It is the Christian doctrine, not scientific doctrine, that animal has... What we have to do with Christian theory?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have poor understanding of the nature of the soul.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In Christianity, they speak of...
Prabhupāda: It is not very advanced.
Rūpānuga: That's not respected.
Prabhupāda: That is true.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Even Billy Graham says there's no soul in the dog. In his column "My Answer"... There's a column by Billy Graham...
Hari-śauri: That's that column you saw.
Prabhupāda: So you challenge them, the scientists.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Somebody asked that "I love my dog. Looks like the dog comes when I call and behaves very nicely." So this question was asking that the dog might have soul. So he asked Billy Graham, "What do you think?" So Billy Graham was saying, "No, dog has no soul."
Prabhupāda: This is dogmatic. This is not scientific; it is dogmatic.
Rūpānuga: He could not support his statements.
Prabhupāda: So dogmatic, you can say any nonsense, but philosophy and science is different. If he's talking on dogmatic platform, then what is his value? What does he mean by "soul is there" and "soul is not there"? How does he prove?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: My feelings is that even if they make these chemicals, the spirit is never going to come in that medium. Otherwise...
Prabhupāda: No, because it comes by superior order, not by your order. Daiva-netreṇa.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So that's good that now science is trying that in about fifty years or so, at the turn of the century, they have a strong hope that they will be able to understand the meaning of life from this chemical concept. But when they see that that's not possible, then they have to come around that what they thought was completely illusion. In that case, our...
Prabhupāda: Case will be strong.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes, then everybody will accept.
Prabhupāda: You can challenge that "You cannot do it."
Rūpānuga: You once said that because people are becoming more educated and scientific-minded, they are rejecting these religions. So similarly, because they are becoming more educated and scientific minded...
Prabhupāda: So-called educated, they are becoming fools.
Rūpānuga: But still, they are challenging. But they, for the same reason, will challenge the scientists in due time. Because they become..., if they become more scientific-minded, then they will challenge these statements that the scientists never verify. Constantly they are saying, but they never do anything.
Prabhupāda: Our challenge should be "Do it." If you cannot do it, then you give up your title, let it go to the chicken. Huh? What is the wrong there, if we say "Dr. Chicken," "Dr. Frog"?
Sadāpūta: These theories of theirs are taught in high schools and colleges as fact, practically. Like the student in Gainesville was telling us that he was taking zoology, and they were teaching evolution, and they were saying that it wasn't a theory anymore but it was a proven fact, and that he was quite dissatisfied with that.
Prabhupāda: Proven fact?
Sadāpūta: Yes, that's how they are teaching it. They don't even teach evolution as a theory anymore, but they say it's been proven as a fact now, what they are teaching.
Prabhupāda: So how it is fact? You cannot do. So what is the fact?
Hari-śauri: "Purport: The cloud of dust covered the entire horizon, but when drops of blood sprayed up as far as the sun, the dust cloud could no longer float in the sky. A point to be observed here is that although the blood is stated to have reached the sun, it is not said to have reached the moon. Apparently, therefore, as stated elsewhere in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the sun, not the moon, is the planet nearest the earth. We have already discussed this point in many places. The sun is first, then the moon, then Mars, Jupiter and so on. The sun is supposed to be 93,000,000 miles above the surface of the earth, and from the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam we understand that the moon is 1,600,000 miles above the sun. Therefore the distance between the earth and the moon would be about 95,000,000 miles. So if a space capsule were traveling at the speed of 18,000 miles per hour, how could it reach the moon in four days? At that speed, going to the moon would take at least seven months. That a space capsule on a moon excursion has reached the moon in four days is therefore impossible."
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) So my reason is alright?
Hari-śauri: Oh yeah.
Prabhupāda: Modern scientists (Hindi—about challenge)
Guest: (Hindi conversation)
Prabhupāda: Whatever Mars going? Finished.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: How everything is nice. See the ap, sky, how viśala (vast) and how nice by Kṛṣṇa. Pūrṇam idam. (break) The vṛkṣa-yoni is condemned. By Kṛṣṇa's arrangement the vṛkṣas are also so nicely set up, it becomes beautiful.
Dr. Patel: They're all the representatives of Kṛṣṇa's creation. This is perfect.
Prabhupāda: Pūrṇam. Pūrṇam idam. Pūrṇam adaḥ (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation).
Dr. Patel: It was a challenge to one scientist who taught nonsense...
Prabhupāda: Well... What...?
Dr. Patel: One man challenged by me, a student, you know, "Sir, you said there is no God. Can you make a living cell even of a..., not of, much less animal, of a plant even?" And he looked with open mouth. "Can you make a single cell living? Cell of. Not of the whole tree." That is nature. That is God. That is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi (Bs. 5.35). Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntarastham. Paramāṇu. Āṇu. Then paramāṇu means smaller than the atom. Six paramāṇus makes one āṇu. Atomic dimension is the combination of six paramāṇus. So in that paramāṇu also the Lord is there.
Dr. Patel: He made it, and then He entered into it. That is what the Veda says.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Antara-stha. Yac-chakti... There is verse. The Paramātmā. Paramātmā is there. The whole human life is meant for understanding all this and glorifying the Lord. And they are wasting the life by imitating the hog. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujaṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). Viḍ-bhujām. Viḍ means stool; bhujā means eating. Yac-chaktir eṣa... What is that? There is a verse. Eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad-aṇḍa-koṭiṁ yac-chaktir asti jagad-aṇḍa-cayā yad-antaḥ, aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu... (Bs. 5.35).
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I have some designs about the covers of the first issue. We wanted to show to Śrīla Prabhupāda. I think I have here.
Prabhupāda: We are challenging scientists that "Life cannot be produced by chemicals only. Life comes from life." They're all big, big chemists. There is another Ph.D. Another M.A.C., M.A.C., this Oriya, Faree(?). He can also join.
Prabhupāda: Māyā means energy, Kṛṣṇa's energy. Here also energy is working. Bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). Kṛṣṇa is preparing the seed. You have to work little. You cannot prepare the seed. That is in Kṛṣṇa's hand. You cannot prepare the seed in your so-called rascals' laboratory. That is not. Is it possible.? Hm? Why now they are so much proud with their scientific knowledge? Our Svarūpa Dāmodara is convinced this so-called scientific knowledge is bogus.
Brahmānanda: He is in Bombay now. We saw him. Girirāja wants to arrange some lectures for him at the schools and colleges.
Prabhupāda: You shall combine a few Ph.D., D.H.C., to challenge these so-called scientists all over the world. Amongst the scientists, if you speak of God, they will deride. He'll reject you. Is it not?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To some extent, yes. But...
Prabhupāda: No. It is prohibited to speak of God among the scientists.
Prabhupāda: So if you combine together and go to any scientist, you challenge and prove scientifically. And still he sees it mistake. You do not know what is life's position, but we shall. Life is different. Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). Without life, this matter has no value. This room is well decorated, well furnished. Why? Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat. Because the life is there. If there was no life, then who cares for Bombay? Heaps of stone, that's all. Who cares for it? So you do not know that particular item and try to convince them according to the modern scientific... Then we shall be triumphant. Everything. Everything. Challenge these rascals, that "You have got power and you will get more power by serving Kṛṣṇa." Your presentation was very nice.
Prabhupāda: Let there be one institution for training Indian youth, for this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Mr. Rajda: That could be done.
Prabhupāda: You do it, and it will be wonderful thing. Do it. In New Delhi. Or in Bombay we have got now very nice building.
Mr. Rajda: In Juhu.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Cooperate with us. It is scientific. Last night our Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara presented very scientifically. We can challenge any scientist, any philosopher. So if you become serious, if you cooperate with us, this institution can set a great example, not only in India, but to the whole world. So you are so kind, you have come to see me. You have got desire. So let us take it seriously.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually, scientific knowledge can be appreciated more when one accepts that Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That should be propagated now. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you know simply Kṛṣṇa, then everything. Why I am challenging, from the very beginning, all these rascal scientists? Because I believe in Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Otherwise I am not a scientist. I cannot challenge the scientists. But yes, I can challenge. Because I know my knowledge is perfect.
Prabhupāda: And we have got so many materials. If we discuss on this one line, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), it takes days to understand.
Mr. Rajda: Quite.
Prabhupāda: Now, if this is fact, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ and na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), what we are doing for that? This is Bhagavad-gītā. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So when my body is destroyed, I am going... (break) ...from door to door, selling the books and sending money. We are pushing on our mission in the way. I am not getting any help neither from the government, from the public. And the record is there in the Bank of America, how much foreign exchange I am bringing. Even in this feeble health also, I am working four hours at least, at night. And they are also helping me. So this is our individual attempt. Why not come here? If you are actually very serious student of Bhagavad-gītā, why don't you come, cooperate? And harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathenāsati dhāvato... (SB 5.18.12). You cannot make public honest simply by legislation. That is not possible. Forget it. That is not possible. Harāv abhaktasya kuto.... Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvaiḥ... If you, if one becomes devotee of the Lord, all good qualities will be there. And harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad... If he's not a devotee... Now so many things, condemnation, is going on, big, big leaders. Today's paper I have seen. "This man, that man, is rejected even." Why? Harāv abhaktasya kuto. What is the benefit of becoming a big leader if he's not a devotee? (Hindi) You are very intelligent, young, and therefore I am trying to give you some idea, and if you can give some shape to these ideas... It is already there. It is no secret. Simply we must be serious, that this institution must be there for educating the whole human society. Never mind, a very small number. It doesn't matter. But ideal must be there.
Mr. Rajda: That is right, correct. If it is possible at all...
Girirāja: No, no difficulty. No, no, no. No difficulty.
Prabhupāda: And we are prepared to challenge or meet challenge of any scientist, any philosopher, any politician, anyone. It is not dogmatic.
Prabhupāda: What you can do when a man dies? Can you save? So similarly, everyone is being handled by the laws of nature. Nobody can do anything, such puffed up, "We can do this plan." All these political leaders, they are simply wasting time. They cannot do anything. Indira promised, daridra hata(?). But now he is, she is daridra. Poverty-stricken. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). These rascals, they challenging the material laws? Such a rascal? You are scientists, they are challenging. Are they not challenging?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, we challenge.
Prabhupāda: What kind of rascals they are, just imagine. Just like "I shall move the mountain with my head." Such rascal. And they are going on as scientist. You have to challenge them like that, that "You are all rascals, so challenging the laws of nature." But from the very beginning I called them rascals.
Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, Bhakti-prema Mahārāja is not here now. He's gone out.
Yaśodānandana: There was a discussion today that in some time, after this preaching to the scientists starts, if we get exposed, it will be a very, very big world news item, especially with jagat theory of the universe, to explain how all the planets are exactly together, how life comes from life. It will be a very shocking news to the whole scientific world. They have so many misconceptions which are simply due to ignorance.
Prabhupāda: They are simply making false propaganda to keep their prestige. Useless. Now here is a scientist. He'll confirm it. What do you think?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Er... I think it's going to be very interesting. We are prepared for it, and it will be a great challenging, challenging field, if all the scientists and all over...
Prabhupāda: We have got some background. They have no background.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, we have Bhagavad-gītā and Prabhupāda, Kṛṣṇa. We are very prominent.
Prabhupāda: But they have no background. They are simply speculating. In the first place they have no background. Child. Doesn't know what... Do you think they are knowing?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I saw just little hint. I met an Indian physicist in Emory University. He's quite well known physicist, and he actually liked the idea that we wrote on. He said it's very genuine and very scientific. We have developed this the laws of consciousness from trying ātmā and Paramātmā. The Paramātmā, we say, is the source of all these laws of nature.
Prabhupāda: That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). Jaya. (Bengali) Or if you like, you can travel with him, but your translation must be main work. If you like, you can go to the foreign countries along with him. (Bengali) So that program you planned, he can come.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Practically the scientific community is going to realize that you're their most..., biggest opposition. They're going to come to appreciate that because you're the only one, Śrīla Prabhupāda, who has dared to challenge all of these scientists. And as your representatives, when they see what we're...
Prabhupāda: Because they... Nowadays people say "We don't want any sentiment, religious. We want science." Rascal, where is your science?
Haṁsadūta: We revived after the riots and trouble in Shree Lanka. We again issued notice that we would revive the challenge for the 26th of last month. And when our devotee went to Kovoor to give him the notice, Dr. Kovoor was laid up in bed, and he informed our man that he had cancer and he expected to die within the next two months or so. And so we didn't hold our program.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, you didn't hold it.
Haṁsadūta: No, we didn't hold it. I also came down with malaria, and the press, because of the intermittent trouble, they sort of lost the momentum. They didn't publicize it enough, so we just... But the public has got the idea.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That the guy's a phony.
Haṁsadūta: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He must be very embarrassed, Kovoor.
Haṁsadūta: Well, the public has really relished the whole situation. But it seemed to me afterwards that this same technique could be applied in any university or anywhere where such a man is propagating this idea. As soon as you find one out, then make a public announcement that a program will be conducted, he's invited, and such-and-such amount of money would be offered if he can substantiate his idea of inert chemicals being the origin of life. Because I saw that the public interest became very keen, especially when they saw there was such a huge reward being offered to substantiate such a widely accepted, scientific idea.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is a challenge to the, all these Nobel Prize-winner scientists. So our position is better. Hm?
Prabhupāda: Bhaktivedanta Institute is doing something scientifically to understand God consciousness. That is proof. And it is well advertised. And we shall go on proceeding like that more and more. So many scientists, foreign and local, they participated, discussed. It is not ordinary thing. Hm?
Guest (2): Jaya.
Prabhupāda: The importance of Bhaktivedanta Institute is there, not that theory molecule. Come on. We are challenging. Discuss like scientist, not like sentimentalists.
Correspondence
1972 Correspondence
Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter of January 11, 1972, and I have noted with pleasure that you are increasing your book distribution and that you have "struck at the very heart of the city of Melbourne." You have understood our philosophy rightly, that we boldly challenge anyone—philosopher, scientist, educationist—to understand our philosophy, and for that we enter without hesitation into the heart of the biggest cities and preach to anyone and everyone the message of Lord Caitanya, who himself was like the lion in strength.
If Mohanananda is advising, that's nice for the time being because Bali Mardan is in New York with ISKCON Press. I have asked the GBC to settle this matter of a replacement for Bali Mardan.
I will be coming to Australia by end of March, or perhaps sooner, because it is more economical than to go first to Hong Kong. When I have fixed the date, I shall inform you to fix up tickets for two persons from Bombay to either Sydney or Melbourne. You consult with Sydney Temple and Upendra and others and fix up your programme in Australia for at least two weeks.
Hoping this will meet you in good health and happy mood.
| Page Title: | Challenging scientists |
| Compiler: | MadhuGopaldas |
| Created: | 18 of Jun, 2013 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=3, CC=1, OB=0, Lec=11, Con=31, Let=1 |
| No. of Quotes: | 47 |