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Challenge (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"challenge" |"challenged" |"challenger" |"challengers" |"challenges" |"challenging" |"challengingly"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa only. (break) That is foolishness. Why our men does not become ready before four o'clock and have maṅgala ārati and kīrtana? If our habits are not changed, then what is the use of spending so much money? (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In no way can anyone say that they're independent. There is no possibility. At every moment one is dependent. And if anyone says they aren't, they are simply foolish rascals. We have to challenge everyone in the world on this point, "You cannot be independent." He is pointing out, saying that even in politics, the politicians like Indira think that they are independent, and Prabhupāda was saying that Munshibhai Raman, he fought so hard for his country's independence, Bangladesh. But in one hour, when the soldiers came, they killed him and every single family member, not sparing anyone. But he thought he was independent. He thought his country had become independent. But in one hour it was all wiped away.

Prabhupāda: So where is your independence? What is the answer? At any moment you have to die. Even Munshibhai Raman or Mussolini or big, big, so..., Napoleon.

Morning Walk -- January 21, 1976, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he doesn't sleep at this...

Prabhupāda: (break) ...possible for us to challenge the whole world that "You are all fools." Huh? Is it possible?

Harikeśa: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Based on the scripture. You can show Vedic...

Prabhupāda: No, no, they don't care for Vedic. That is another foolishness. You have to present. You have to prove them fools by practical. And otherwise, "Who cares for your Vedic instruction?" they will say. Why they should... "We have got our own instruction." That is preaching. If you quote simply Vedic literature, they will think, "We can quote many others."

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: I challenged him, "You are Buddhist." "Yes." "You are eating meat?" "Yes." "What is this?" (laughs) That was my first talking with him.

Sudāmā: They were wanting to talk business for a long time. You were simply preaching to them.

Prabhupāda: Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu went to the Kazi. His first question was that "What kind of religion you are following? You are killing your father and mother?" This was His beginning of the talk. "What kind of religion it is?" "How is that? I am killing my father, mother?" "Yes, cow is your mother and bull is your father. You are killing them. The bull is giving you grains by working in the field, and the mother is giving you milk, and you are killing them." This was his first question. So this is a civilization of killing father and mother. All over the world they are killing bulls and cows. In England there is law that you can maintain a cow but you cannot maintain a bull. It must be killed. Yes. When I was a guest in John Lennon's house the manager in charge, he was telling me. "You cannot keep bull. This is our law." I learned from him.

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...made so gigantic and so opulent. And we make Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura on the gate? How foolish they are. The doorkeeper?

Jayapatākā: I challenged them that "Why you are putting Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura on the gateway?" So they say, "Well, this was in memory because when..." They say when Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was a magistrate that he used to go there and he used to watch the local people do their..., do some sports and horse-racing and things, and so as memory they are making there.

Prabhupāda: So you are so intelligent, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura was not so intelligent that he could place him. But you are so very intelligent, you are surpassing Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. So you are intelligent or fool? You should answer like this.

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ...this flavor. Now who can challenge? Apart from other things...

Acyutānanda: But you don't know the real cause scientifically, so you say it is a god.

Prabhupāda: No, no, you, you are scientist, but you are a greater rascal. You cannot explain. Wherefrom this flavor has come?

Acyutānanda: Well, we're working on that, and we'll find out.

Prabhupāda: But working... But we have got the already conclusion. Why should we work like a fool?

Acyutānanda: That's an excuse because you cannot explain to your children when they come.

Prabhupāda: No, no, we are explaining. Kṛṣṇa says, "This is I am." This is God. This is God. You are fool. You are searching after. But we know. Here is God. Puṇyo gandhaḥ pṛthivyāṁ ca. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am this flavor." So as soon as you have this flavor, you understand Kṛṣṇa is there. It is easier. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ.

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1976, Mayapur:

Hṛdayānanda: That's exactly what's happening.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And if you ask, they will say, "That we do not know." So why you are taking money? Exactly they say so. Our Svarūpa Dāmodara challenged that professor who came to lecture in California University. He challenged, "If I give you chemicals, can you produce life?" He said, "That I cannot say."

Kirtirāja: "We are trying," they said.

Prabhupāda: Then why you are, you are bluffing and taking money from us? You do not know. (break) I'll have to go to you, and both of them, I'll have to... The Marwari this... Gujaratis, they use too much oil. Similarly Bengalis, too much oil. Imli, imli water?

Indian devotee (1): Yes, and chili.

Prabhupāda: And chili. That's all.

Morning Walk -- March 7, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: "Perhaps." "Might be." "It was like this and that..." What is that explanation?

Guru-kṛpā: Well, the common man doesn't challenge that.

Prabhupāda: Mean common men are fool. But why we should accept?

Bhagavān: If they could really explain it, so many things would not be going wrong.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: We know real scientist because we know the biggest scientist, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we are scientists. Without Him we don't claim to be scientists-fools, rascals. Ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tathā kim. He is everything. He doesn't require to. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, then you become scientist, philosopher. And I was never a scientist, so we challenge the scientists, and I have produced this scientist to challenge them. But I was never a scientist. That book is actually revolutionary amongst the scientists. Scientific Basis, you have read that?

Indian man: Yes, I have read.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: We know real scientist because we know the biggest scientist, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we are scientists. Without Him we don't claim to be scientists-fools, rascals. Ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tathā kim. He is everything. He doesn't require to. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, then you become scientist, philosopher. And I was never a scientist, so we challenge the scientists, and I have produced this scientist to challenge them. But I was never a scientist. That book is actually revolutionary amongst the scientists. Scientific Basis, you have read that?

Indian man: Yes, I have read.

Prabhupāda: Very nicely he has written, very, very nicely, from all scientific... He has challenged the scientists. He has clearly declared, "Darwin is wrong, and scientists, they do not know."

Dr. Patel: Now the modern scientists from Russia, they say that there is life on other stars, in other planets.

Prabhupāda: Not only that, they are interested in reading our books. We have received letter. We are sending representative.

Morning Walk -- April 16, 1976, Bombay:

Arjuna made question to Kṛṣṇa that "You say millions of years ago You spoke this science to..."

Dr. Patel: Vivasvān.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "But You are of my age. How I can accept this?" And immediately answer was that "Both of us were present. You have forgotten. I have not forgotten." Bas. Accept it. He did not challenge, "How is that? I have forgotten? You did not forget?" And that is nonsense. That is nonsense.

Dr. Patel: Śādhi māṁ tvāṁ prapannam.

Prabhupāda: Yes. As soon as he questions like that, "How is that You have not forgotten? I have forgotten?" it is not good. Then he is not fit for making question. He should not have made question.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: He's not a scientist, who changes himself.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot change your position. That is science. Kṛṣṇa has said that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). So nobody has become greater than Kṛṣṇa up till now. That is science. Can anyone challenge Kṛṣṇa? No. And He has said, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). So that is scientist.

Dr. Patel: No, but the scientists try to unearth the secrets of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Patel: Scientists, the modern science, is trying to unearth the secrets of Kṛṣṇa only.

Prabhupāda: Trying to?

Dr. Patel: Unearth the secret of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's māyā.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's māyā.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Then don't say that "Breathing is stopped. Therefore he is dead." Don't talk nonsense. Why do you talk like that, "Now breathing is stopped. He's dead"? Talk in right language if you are scientist. Why you are talking like that, "The air is stopped. The breathing is stopped. Therefore dead"? That's not a fact. So you are stating which is not a fact. Why you claim that you are scientist? That is the challenge. Hm? Then again you come to the blood. What is blood? Red water. So if you say that this, that, so many jugglery of words, so manufacture. Water mix with the red color and give these, these so many rascal things.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Nothing. Artificial blood.... Superficially it is red water. So if red water is the life, then why you are spoiling so much blood? Keep it scientifically and push it into the dead body. I say it is, that way, it is the red water, nothing but red water. Urine is white water. I am coming to the five elements, air, water.... Then what is this bone? Earth. You can manufacture bone, hard bone, with earth or wood or something plastic. So we are analyzing the combination of the body, so everything you can manufacture. But where is the life you can manufacture? Why do you say? That is our challenge. All the ingredients of the body you can manufacture exactly like that. Ultimately you can give the beauty also of the woman or the man. But where is life? Bring life by all these things. Then I will say that you are scientist. Otherwise cheater, simply bluffing people. This thing should be stopped. Where you get the information that this, from matter life is possible. "In future." But in future.... In inceptive condition you show something. Just like formerly they were flying balloons. So because they were flying, they could say that "Future we shall fly a big city." And in the history we can see that that is not impossible, because in the inceptive condition or initiative condition we see that big things can be flown. But here you cannot even prepare an ant. You have not been able to prepare even a small ant, germ.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: The same constitution of the body. Otherwise there is no question of heart.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You've just challenged the whole field of biology also.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the.... I say they're nonsense, rascals. They say that there is no.... And what is their knowledge? We don't give any value to their knowledge. Kṛṣṇa says clearly, hṛd-deśe 'rjuna. And this body is just like a yantra, machine. So as machine means, moving machine means it must have wheel, it must have sitting place.... Everything is there, machine.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Guru-kṛpā: These people that say that they are God, they should be taken to court and thrown in jail for misrepresentation.

Prabhupāda: No, that is by.... There are some.... But first of all, if somebody creates God, then he should be challenged that "Where is your, what is your definition of God? If you were created God, corroborate with the definition. Then we accept." This is very logical. We can ask anybody, "What is your definition of God? What do you mean by God?" Then he has to explain. This is the point.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: So this is going on, imagination. Imagination.... "I shall become so great that I shall kick Kṛṣṇa's law," and whatever pot he had-broken. That's all. Rascals, simply rascals. If anyone thinks like that, that "I shall surpass the laws of nature," then he's madman. He's madman. So what is the use of dealing with madmen? And as soon as you challenge them that "Show us that you have surpassed the laws of nature," "Yes, we are trying. In future we shall do." That's all. This is their reply. So it is better to avoid such men. But if you peacefully you can introduce, "All right, you will do.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: And what is, the scientists will not believe? We say, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "As the child is becoming boy, boy is becoming, similarly you have to change body." What scientist has to challenge this? But they are obstinate dog. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ you have to accept. Can the scientist say, "No, no, no, the child is not going to be a young man or boy"? Can he say like that? Then why they challenge unnecessarily? They are changing the body. Can the scientists stop it? But if they are unreasonable dogs, then what can be done? What argument will reach them? A dog cannot understand.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Can you challenge? "Do this first. What is your science? This is rascal science. You give up the major problem; you are making research how many atoms are working. What you will do by understanding atoms are going?"

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Because it's very difficult to...

Prabhupāda: Difficult? Then you are not scientist. You cannot touch the difficult problem. Childish thing, you are bluffing children, that's all. You have no power to tackle the difficulties. You cannot give life to the dead body.

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). Kṛṣṇa has unlimited energies. Yesterday you were explaining in your garden to that priest that Kṛṣṇa, He says, Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the father of all living entities." And you were saying, "Who can challenge this or deny it?" Now someone can say that there is contradiction, if there is some contradiction in Kṛṣṇa's statement, therefore...

Prabhupāda: Who can deny? Who can contradict this? That is my challenge. The contradiction is not valid. Who can contradict it? That is my challenge.

Rāmeśvara: Well, say in some philosophy...

Prabhupāda: Just like a father, a real father can say, "I am the father." Who can challenge? Father is one. Who can? Nobody can say "No, you are not father, he's father." No. The real father is father. Father cannot be replaced.

Rāmeśvara: No.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Suppose real father says, "I am the father of this boy." Who will challenge it?

Rāmeśvara: Someone who does not believe my father.

Prabhupāda: That means he's a rascal. But father cannot be changed. He does not know; he challenges, that's all. How the father can be changed? Father is one.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So we have to challenge all these rascals.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You are giving us the weapons with which to challenge.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Transcendental knowledge. Now the Russians will fall also if our books are introduced there.

Prabhupāda: If actually they are after something reality, they must accept. If they are actually after something reality. It is natural. They have been disgusted with this Christianity. Useless, that's all. But if they are actually serious, then they'll accept knowledge.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Now our scientists are challenging, Svarūpa Dāmodara and others.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They could scientifically publish a book.

Candanācārya: There are scientists in England who agree that they didn't go to the planet.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Candanācārya: There are some scientists in England who agree with you that they did not go to the moon.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they did not. Simply propaganda. (japa) (break) Freedom.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: These demons that are trying to challenge us, they cannot stop our movement for ten thousand years.

Prabhupāda: What is their challenge? They have no, nothing to challenge. Unless they are violent. That much they can do, like demons.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That, you think that they will do that eventually?

Prabhupāda: No, now people are civilized. It is.... But they want to do it.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (laughing) This is too much.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even you were challenging their gurus. That they get very angry at. Sataji will always tell me, "I like your Prabhupāda very much. But he is always criticizing all of our gurus."

Rāmeśvara: Like Ramakrishna and this cheater magician.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "He calls them cheaters, rascals, rogues, in public." At all the pāṇḍāls you used to do that. Oh, they couldn't stand it.

Hari-śauri: That man that stopped me in the street...

Prabhupāda: What can I say? Kṛṣṇa says. I am simply a child, repeating the words of Kṛṣṇa.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, so they no more deal with that subject matter?

Rāmeśvara: Yes, that's their point. That because they cannot prove that life comes from life or that there is transmigration of the soul, therefore they will not consider your challenge because it cannot be proven by empiric means.

Prabhupāda: Why not proven?

Rāmeśvara: They say it cannot be proven...

Prabhupāda: It is proven.

Rāmeśvara: ...by observation.

Prabhupāda: It is observation. That is, a child is growing to another body. So the soul of the child is transferred to another body. What more proof he wants?

Rāmeśvara: There's no visible evidence of the soul.

Prabhupāda: This is visible. Your child, a baby, is on the lap, and after one year, he has got a different body. The old, the old body, on the lap, is finished. Now he is walking. It is another body

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. The life is there. You make some arrangement that it will not take part. That is another thing. If it is a fact that the egg is not life, then why you rascal do not manufacture a chemical egg and get a chicken? Why you rascal talking nonsense? That is our challenge. We say "rascals" not without consideration, because actually they talk like nonsense. Rascals. They cannot do, and still they'll insist they will do. That is rascal. Is it all right? (laughs) South, South America, er, South Africa, there are so many factories of begetting chicken.

Morning Walk -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No clear conception, scientific idea. Therefore educated persons, they are not interested. "God, give us daily bread." They will say, "Why we shall go to church for begging bread? We can manufacture it, large quantity." (laughs) Why they should go? Formality: "God, give us our daily bread." "Just open a big factory and eat as much bread as we like. Why should we go to God?" (break) ...Jawaharlal Nehru, he took this view, that "For economic development why should you go to the temple, ask this demigod, that demigod, 'Give me this. Give me this'? Develop industry and get money to enjoy." That is his.... (break)...description of God in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam begins: janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ sva-rāṭ (SB 1.1.1). This is God, the origin of everything. Who is there who can challenge this explanation, "The origin of everything"? Now, what is that origin? Whether it is matter or sentient? No. Janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś ca abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). He knows everything. Therefore He's a person.

Room Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: "...afraid of me, what kind of child? (laughs) Where you got so much strength?" And the answer here,

na kevalaṁ me bhavataś ca rājan

sa vai balaṁ balināṁ cāpareṣām

pare 'vare 'mī sthira-jaṅgamā ye

brahmādayo yena vaśaṁ praṇītāḥ

"Prahlāda Mahārāja said, 'My dear King, the source of my strength, of which you are asking, is also the source of yours, by which you are challenging. Indeed, the original source of all kinds of strength is one. He is not only your strength or mine, but the only strength for everyone. Without Him, no one can get any strength, whether moving or not moving, superior or inferior. Everyone, including Lord Brahmā, is controlled by the strength of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.' "

Room Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: "All right, let me see how your strength is coming. Now I shall kill you, come on. Let me see (laughs) how your God is coming to save you." This is atheism, challenging. And when He appeared, the Hiraṇyakaśipu became a fly (laughs) in front of.... Eh? Where is such language? Even there are many Sanskrit scholars now, they cannot produce such language. That is not possible. And five thousand years before, Vyāsadeva presented this unique language.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Richard: Have you studied other religions?

Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore I'm saying. Without studying, how can I say? I am challenging, not saying. We are challenging. We are not saying only.

Richard: Um hm.

Prabhupāda: If you want to overcome all obstacles of life, this is the only education. That's all. Or if you have different aims of life, there are different departments of knowledge. But if you want this knowledge, then this is the education.

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: If you are perfect, then why you are learning? You are trying to become perfect. So our process is that we are receiving knowledge from the perfect. Therefore whatever we say, it is perfect. A child does not know, "What is this, father?" The father says "My dear child, it is called microphone." So after that, if he takes it and declares to anyone, "This is microphone," that is perfect, although he's a child. Because he's learned it from the perfect father. This is our process. We don't speculate. We don't speculate whether there is father or not. That is not our process. We ask from the mother, "Mother, they say I have got father. I have never seen." So mother says, "Yes, my dear child, you have got a father." Then finish. Knowledge is perfect. And the child cannot challenge, "I have never seen my father. How can I believe you?" This is nonsense. Your mother says, that is fact. That's all, finished. You cannot challenge mother: "Mother, I have never seen my father; how can I believe?" That is nonsense! This is going on. "I have never seen God. Can you show me God?" This rascaldom is going on. First of all you must know you are a rascal. How can you see God? You hear from the authority who knows God. That is the injunction.

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

You have to approach tattva-darśī, who has seen God through spiritual eyes. So one has to approach such a person who actually knows God, seen God, and approach him, praṇipātena. Not like that childish challenge. By surrender, praṇipātena. Then question. First of all surrender. Praṇipātena, paripraśnena. Not by challenging. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Therefore one has to go to guru, where there is no challenge. There is no question of challenging. You can make question. That is another thing. But not challenge. Then you'll be deceived. Therefore first condition is praṇipātena. Without praṇipāta, you cannot make advancement. So this philosophy, our philosophy or anyone's philosophy.... Philosophy is not for our or yours. Philosophy is philosophy.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Jayādvaita: When we present the real idea, then they're just sitting there, they have no argument. And then we challenge their system, that "What is the purpose of your society? What is the goal of it?" and they can't say anything.

Prabhupāda: Unless there is division of activity, nothing can be done perfectly well. The natural division is there in the body—the head, the arms, the belly and the legs. Similarly, in the social body also there must be the heads, the intelligent class of men, brāhmaṇa. Then everything will go on smoothly. And, at the present moment, there is no intelligent class of men. All laborer, worker class of men, fourth class. No first class, second class. Therefore society is in chaotic condition. There is no brain.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: So in the school, college classes, there is sometimes argument?

Satsvarūpa: All the time. (laughter) We always save half the time for questions, and immediately, "How do you know that that is true?" All challenging. "Why should I believe?" "How could God present the scriptures?" All faithless.

Jayādvaita: In this part of the country, I think the students, generally they admit there is God. They're a little pious in this central portion. There are so many farms and they're not so deteriorated.

Prabhupāda: Polluted.

Room Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He backed down from the challenge.

Prabhupāda: Now you all together make this Vedic planetarium very nice, so that people will come and see. From the description of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you prepare this Vedic planetarium. How do you like this idea, Vedic planetarium?

Ambarīṣa: It seems like a very nice idea.

Prabhupāda: You also like? So finance this project. (laughter) Vedic planetarium.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Thing is that if the leaders of the society, they come to their consciousness, that this way the society cannot be peaceful, the way they are now conducting.... If they have brain.... Just like the other day, the Christian priest. He was speaking of disabled men. You were present? I challenge you: what do you mean by disabled man? If one man has lost his arm, can you supply it? Then he stopped.

Hari-śauri: He was finished when you told him it was all imaginary.

Prabhupāda: Yes, actually. What you can do?

Jagadīśa: Other than yourself, Śrīla Prabhupāda, no one in the world has a vision how to save the world.

Prabhupāda: Because I honestly think of it. Maybe others are also honest, but they do not know the right way. How they can be honest? Just like this Communist movement. They are favoring the labor class and rejecting the capitalist class altogether. They cannot make any adjustment.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: So therefore in our Gauḍīya, Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not write any bhāṣya of the Brahma-sūtra, neither the gosvāmīs, because they took it that Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the real bhāṣya of Brahma-sūtra. But when.... Sometimes the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas are challenged that "You cannot be accepted as bona fide community, spiritual community, because you have no bhāṣya on Brahma-sūtra." Then Baladeva Vidyābhūṣaṇa wrote govinda-bhāṣya. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not like or ask His disciples to write, because He thought, "This is the Gauḍīya, Brahma-sūtra-bhāṣya." Not Gauḍīya—for every Vaiṣṇava. Bhāṣyāyāṁ brahma-sūtrāṇām. So we have got now Gauḍīya Vedānta-bhāṣya. Rāmānuja Vedānta-bhāṣya is there. Madhvācārya Vedānta-bhāṣya is there, all. And Gauḍīya had not. But since this challenge was made in Jaipur, then Baladeva Vidyābhūṣaṇa, he took: "Yes," and he finished, Gauḍīya bhāṣya, and it is called Govinda-bhāṣya. Actually, in India, unless one follows the ācāryas and has given commentary on the Brahma-sūtra, he's not a bona fide. Nyāya-prasthāna. Brahma-sūtra is called nyāya-prasthāna. Śruti-prasthāna, smṛti-prasthāna, nyāya-prasthāna. So any bona fide ācārya must give his understanding about these three prasthānas.

Morning Walk Conversation -- June 20, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: That is real scientific. And what is method? Very simple: man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru mām evaiśyasi asaṁśayaḥ (BG 18.68). "Without any doubt, he comes to Me." This is science. Why shall I waste time? Svarūpa Dāmodara challenged one scientist in California that "If I give you the chemicals, can you manufacture life?" He said, "That I cannot say." What you have spoken all this nonsense? Mattaḥ kore heṭ. And when there is challenge, mattaḥ kore heṭ. Otherwise, baro baro bagara, baro baro phet, big, big monkey, big, big belly. And when the real question is there, mattaḥ kore het. Ceylon jumping, melancholy. Hanumān jumped over the ocean, so other monkeys, they also become very proud: "I am..., Hanumān is our leader, we can...," "Can you jump over Ceylon?" Mattaḥ het. (break) ...speak all these things, Indian villagers, they will immediately believe. One cobbler.... I think I narrated this story. Nārada Muni was going to Vaikuṇṭha.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Therefore so many Vedantists, they first of all, they give up this world brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, this world is false. But again they come down and they become busy in doing some philanthropic work, opening hospitals.... Why? If the world is false, why you are coming down again on this platform? That means they could not get any substance by their so-called renouncement of this world. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa, for going to that platform of siddhi, liberation, they had to undergo so much difficulties and austerities but still, even going there.... Just like these people are going to the moon planet and.... Actually whether they have gone or not, that is a doubtful thing, but the thing is, why they are coming down again? That is our challenge. If you have gone to the moon planet then colonise there. But why you have come down again and do not talk anything about.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: For your direct whims you have to spend so much money? The people are so befooled they do not challenge them. Yes. Everyone knows, suppose one is coming to the western country, Europe and America, we knew it, that it is cold country, we must take proper dress. And we have come and we are staying. So this is knowledge. So if you do not know what is the atmosphere there, what do you spend so much money? And again you are going to the Mars. Are you fixed up what is the position there? Then you'll again bring something, some dust and rock. (laughter) This business will go on at the expense of the... You can do. You have got money. You can do that. But we are Indians, we are coming from poor country. If you spend so much money for nothing, that is very, not very palatable for us. If one tenth of the expenditure you would have given to us for spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... No. Not a single paisa they will give. And they'll spoil money for going to the moon planet and bring some dust. That's ... Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja is struggling to construct a small residential quarter here, and he has to beg, he has to collect, he has done... Why the government does not pay? "Here so many people are living. Let them live comfortably." But they'll spend this money, millions of dollars, and to bring some dust. Is that very sane government? And people are so fool that they do not challenge the government, "Why you are spending for nothing?" They can do that.

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That is complacence. What is called? "Yes, in future we shall do." That's all. Then at present you cannot do. Then you are imperfect. Why you are declaring yourself as scientist? Scientist means who is in full knowledge. That is scientist. And if you are not in full knowledge, how you are scientist? "Big, big scientist, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy." Rascals say that chemical, combination of chemical, makes life. So we challenge that you begin from an egg. Everyone sees the egg—some white substance, some yellow substance, covered with some shells. So just manufacture it and give it to the incubator, and let the chicken come. Why you take the egg from another living chicken? What is the answer? You rascal, you make one small egg. We can see there are some white substance, yellow substance, so you combine some chemicals, white and yellow, and cover it with celluloid shell and put it under the incubator. You get. Why the rascals cannot do it? And still, the rascals will say that life can be..., is combination of chemicals. Give this challenge to these rascals, that "Life is... If it is combination of chemicals, why don't you do it, the simple thing?"

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He cannot meet the challenge.

Prabhupāda: Any scientist here who can answer why Sunday first and Monday second?

Janāhlāda: I'm not a scientist, but I always thought that the ancients thought that the sun was first because without telescopes or without light-measuring instruments it was bigger and it looked closer.

Prabhupāda: That's a fact. Sunday is first, and Monday-moon is beyond sun. If they accept that nobody can approach sun, then how they can approach moon? In calculation, eighteen thousand miles per hour, and if the moon is situated 95,000,000 miles, then how they can go in four days? These are my questions. They have not been answered. It takes at least seven months. And they went in four days, and the man's mother... His photograph was there. She said, "At last my son has gone there." You have seen that photograph? I have seen it. Mother was satisfied. This is going on.

Room Conversation After Film -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They are not producing anything.

Prabhupāda: They'll never be able. Challenge. "That we cannot say." As soon as you say "Make an egg," "That we cannot say." And they'll chant "Chemical evolution, chemical evolution" and get Nobel Prize. Rascals. But how the people are so foolish that they believe in this?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oṁ ajñāna-timirāndhasya. Without spiritual master there is nothing they can say.

Prabhupāda: This is very simple. You see everything, white and yellow. Produce. Chemicals are white. Some chemicals are yellow also. Just like hydroform(?). It is yellow. And soda bicarb, white, or potash cyanide is white. So you have got so many chemicals, combine and pack it in a cell, and put underneath the incubator. Why rascal do not do this? Beat them with shoes. "Rascal, you are cheating in this way." Beat them with shoes. That's all. That is the only punishment.

Room Conversation After Film -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: With pilot. 747, you have to pay expert pilot, but here with pilot. Make this. Simply talking. Not only mosquito: at night we see so many, just like full stop, the same mechanical, flying from here, there, from here moving. Airplane, exactly in the form of... Similarly standing and... That is our challenge. Challenge this. Go in public meeting. Bring these so-called scientists, "Why don't you make any...? Why do you talk all this nonsense and cheat people?" Simple. Why first of all Sunday? There is no Monday first. I think never this question's raised, anybody. Fool's paradise. The Western world is fool's paradise. Actually this is the time they are getting enlightenment. Otherwise they are all fool's paradise. No social life, no religious life, simply get money somehow or other and enjoy wine, women, meat. That's all. This is their civilization. Do live comfortably; there is no harm. But why misconception?

Hari-śauri: At least be honest.

Interview with Mike Darby -- June 30, 1976, Wheeling, W. Virginia:

Darby: So many people call themselves Christians, they still try to deny God.

Prabhupāda: Not only Christians, the whole world is now like that. Religion has become a subject matter of laughing. If one is God conscious, religious, he is considered fool number one, not very much advanced. Especially the scientists, the rascal scientists. And they'll bluff you in so many ways, that life is produced from chemicals. When we challenge them that "You make a little egg with chemicals and put it in the incubator and let life come," what will be the answer? The so-called scientist who says that life is made by combination of chemicals? Anyone can see the composition of egg, a little white and yellow substance. There are many chemicals, they are all white, and there are many chemicals yellow also. Combine together and put it in the incubator and see whether chicken is coming or not. And still they will assert, write big, big books, that life is coming out of chemicals. And people are accepting this bluff. So it is very precarious condition of present world. People want to be bluffed and there are many bluffers. And they are satisfied that "I am bluffed by a big bluffer." That's all. This is going on.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So what it means is that in order to understand this distinction between life and matter one must be a devotee.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We raise the question, we challenge these rascals because we are following the path of devotion. We are not scientists. And we could not challenge unless we were convinced. How it is possible? Suppose I am layman, how I am challenging these big, big scientists? It is not... Because we have known it through devotional service, so this is science. That is the difference.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: In Bhagavad-gītā it is said bhaktyā mām abhijānāti: (BG 18.55) "One can understand Me through bhakti." And the Vedic injunction is that "If one knows Me, or knows the Absolute Truth, God, then he knows everything." Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If somehow or other one knows the Absolute Truth, then he knows everything. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. That is the benefit of knowing the Absolute Truth. So a devotee knows everything. How it is possible? That is explained in Bhagavad-gītā,

teṣām evānukampārtham
aham ajñāna-jaṁ tamaḥ
nāśayāmy ātma-bhāva-stho
jñāna-dīpena bhāsvatā
(BG 10.11)

One may challenge, "How a person can know everything?" So Kṛṣṇa immediately replies that "I help him specifically." Teṣām evānukampārtham. "Just to show My personal, especial favor upon him, I light up the torch of knowledge, and he knows everything." So if Kṛṣṇa helps one to know everything, who can check it? That is not possible. This science must be there. We are not all-powerful. Kṛṣṇa is all-powerful means He can do everything.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: In the human society, there are departmental education. Physics department, chemist department, mathematics department, this department, that... Why? Because there are different inquiries. So Vedānta-sūtra says that the prime inquiry is to inquire about the Absolute Truth. That is human life. If there is no inquiry about the Absolute truth, then still he is animal. So those who are simply satisfied with the physics and chemistry, they are still animals. They are not human beings. This is the challenge. Still they have not developed the consciousness. And that inquiry, when it is for Kṛṣṇa, that is the final development. And when he understands Kṛṣṇa, his life is perfect. Then he goes back again to the spiritual world. He's quite fit to live there. Otherwise, he's unfit, he must be here in this material world. And if he understands Kṛṣṇa, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). This is perfection.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Has there ever been debates on the authenticity of modern science, or is this the first time modern science has been challenged in the world?

Prabhupāda: India, Vedic civilization never cared for anything which is searched out by imperfect human beings. They never cared for it. Because he knows the man who is searching after, he's imperfect. Whatever he'll do, that is imperfect. Therefore neglect it. That is Vedic civilization. Śruti-pramāṇa: whether it is evident from the śrutis, from the Vedas. Otherwise, they reject it.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Brahma-sūtra-padaiś caiva hetumādbhir viniścitaiḥ (BG 13.5). Very.... Nyāya-praṣṭhāna. But Vedānta-sūtra is explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Therefore our Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas, they did not write any comment on the Vedānta-sūtra. They accept Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the real bhāṣya. But when the Gauḍīya-Vaiṣṇavas are challenged that "You have no Vedānta-sūtra-bhāṣya, therefore you cannot be accepted as transcendental party," so Baladeva Vidyābhūṣana immediately gave Govinda-bhāṣya on Vedānta. Our Gosvāmīs, they did not write because they knew Brahma-sūtra bhāṣya, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Hari-śauri: Does the moon have an orbit also then?

Prabhupāda: Yes, every (indistinct). It is described as a chariot moving. Something, challenge must be given.

Hari-śauri: I think that when we try to explain to them that the sun is drawn by a chariot, then... (laughs)

Prabhupāda: The (indistinct) sun is God. He's one of the gods.

Hari-śauri: Hm.

Yadubara: Won't they just take this...

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) He's a person, sun-god. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1), a person. That is his planet. He is the predominating Deity. And similarly moon. And the kṣatriyas, they are coming from these two planets. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, vivasvān manave prāha manur ikṣvākave... Ikṣvāku is the sūrya-vaṁśa, the kṣatriya family coming from the sun.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They can make a sample like mosquito.

Prabhupāda: No... They cannot, they cannot. That is my challenge. That first of all you bring life from the egg. You prepare a egg composition, and put it in the incubator and let some living entity come out. So can they do it? So why they will speak all nonsense?

Yadubara: They admit they can't do it.

Prabhupāda: Then they are rascal. What they cannot do, they're speaking lots of and getting Nobel prize.

Yadubara: They say how in the future they can.

Prabhupāda: How cheating.

Devotee (2): You said the chicken can do it.

Prabhupāda: Yeah.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: But that is not your laboratory children. That is God's children. That is another thing. That is not your laboratory children. You want to produce children in laboratory? Then do that. That is our challenge.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But this, one of our arguments now, we argue that these molecules that (indistinct) for example DNA, even if they make it, still it just... It means it's a molecule. It is not going to function normally, as we find in a living cell, in a living body. So this has nothing to do with the life processes. The molecules they make, they may do so many reactions, but still there is a fundamental difference in the living body and this simple, that... To determine that it's never possible to create life in the test tube. The have timetables, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in about fifty years, that's about the turn of the century, that about 2001 we are going to make such and such bodies and...

Prabhupāda: All imagination.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That we already admitted. That I can see ten feet, let me credit, take credit for that. But why shall I say, "I can see the whole universe." What is this nonsense? Speak the truth. "Now we have manufactured machine, and this, I have calculation that..." All talking nonsense. I say it is not possible for you to see beyond ten feet. Why you are claiming that you can see the whole sky? That is our protest. You can see ten feet, take that credit, that much. If somebody manufactures the electric lamp, all right. Take this. But if he says, "I can manufacture the sun." Then he is to be beaten with shoes. Talking nonsense. You take this credit, that you have manufactured light in electric bulb, that's all right. But why you claim that, "I can manufacture the sun"? That is their claim, defying God. Because we are explaining God consciousness, therefore we have protest. Otherwise let them move(?), all nonsense (indistinct). But we cannot tolerate when they challenge God.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is..., Sadāpūta has an interesting point in science itself, that somebody tried to show that in the living body, when life is within matter, the ah, it doesn't follow the conservation of matter. Science, one of the basic principles of science is that...

Prabhupāda: No, no. All the living conditions are there in the matter, provided there is the living being, that's all. Just like a dead body, it is not that the living condition is finished, no. The living conditions are there. That particular soul has left that body. But the dead body is also full of ingredients of living condition. So many germs are coming out when the body is decomposed. You say decomposition, but even in that decomposed condition there is living condition. So the living conditions are already there, matter in any form. So how these rascals say there is no life in the moon planet? That is not possible. The living conditions are always there in the matter. This is the example. Now, a decomposed body, the living being has left, now it is dead matter, but still, the living beings are coming out. How it is? That means matter has always the potency to give shelter to the living entity. So it is impossible that there is no living being in the moon planet. It is bogus. We cannot accept it. Any condition there is provision for the living beings. We see actually, in the earth, in the air, in the water, in the fire, these five elements. Whatever you take, these five elements in different proportions. So the living..., just like from perspiration living entities come out. It is impossible there is no living entities. That is bogus complete. You can challenge like that.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: You should not be so proud falsely. That is our point. And mislead others that there is no God. Because you are accepted as authority, scientist, if you say that there is no God, they will accept it. Then our back to Godhead movement is stopped. Then we must stop your also nonsense. It is a fight. Because you say there is no God, and we say you are all nonsense. We must say it. You are challenging, we must challenge. But you accept God, then we have nothing... I think Sir Isaac Newton said like that: "The vast knowledge, we have simply gathered a few grains of sand on the beach of knowledge," something like that. That is good.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: ...bora bora phet, lanka dinga ke matta kare het(?) It was translated by a Mr. Roe, a professor in the Presidency College, he translated "Big, big monkey, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy." When the problems of life is read, then they are melancholy, all these big, big scientists. Ceylon jumping melancholy. Hanumān, one monkey, he jumped over the Ceylon. So other monkeys also, they were very much proud that a monkey jumped over the ocean. And as soon as he was challenged, "Can you jump over?" melancholy. Ceylon jumping melancholy. Big, big monkey, big, big belly. These are the translation by Mr. Roe, a professor of English in Presidency College.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Dr. Sharma: Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22).

Prabhupāda: Yes. Common sense. And we are practically experiencing. When the child has grown to become a young man, the mother does not cry, "Oh, my child is gone." She knows, she knows that "Here is my child. Simply he has changed his body." So this is a fact, that we are changing bodies but we are eternal. This is the conclusion. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). So unless one is properly educated, where is the talk of advancing? So this is the beginning of spiritual education, to understand that the living entity is eternal and the body is changing. And then next question will be that if the body is changing, then this body will be changed, so after my death what kind of body I am going to accept? That is education. That is education. And if I remain blind, I do not care, and next life I become a dog, then what is the value of my present education? In spite of all education, next life I am going to become a dog or tree, then what is the value of my education? That education is not. Throughout the whole world perhaps we are giving this education. Throughout the whole world, find out any institution or university where this education is given. No. Simply big, big talks. And you talk something nonsense and take laureate, Nobel Laureate. That's all. It is going on. Somebody is talking nonsense that life is produced from matter, from chemicals, and if we challenge, "All right, combine some matter in egg form and bring life," that rascal will say, "No, it will take millions of years." And if the bird is giving life in five days, why you are taking doctorate title? Give the chicken doctorate title. The rascals are simply bluffing the people. This is going on in the name of education. Can anyone produce life by a combination of chemicals? And these rascals are advertising. We challenge, "All right, not very big thing.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: But Kṛṣṇa has already given to the chicken. (laughter) He's so unfortunate that Kṛṣṇa is not giving him the intelligence. He's so unfortunate. But the fortunate chicken has already got the intelligence. So at least the chicken is fortunate than these so-called scientists. That is our conclusion. He's so unfortunate that he doesn't get the fortune of the chicken. Mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti loko mām ajam avyayam (BG 7.25). He's a mūḍha, rascal. That's all. He's claiming something which is impossible. That is mūḍha. If somebody, if a child, sometimes childish nature, "Mother, give me that moon." It is possible mother can give the moon to the child? So mother cheats him. She gives him a mirror, "You see, here is a mirror, moon here." That's all. But is that moon? So a child may be satisfied with this class of moon, but one who is sane man, his father will not be satisfied. It is impossible. We give this challenge to any scientist, that "You are unnecessarily, uselessly working to produce life from chemicals." That is our challenge. "You cannot do it." (Hindi) So we challenge the so-called scientists that "You rascal, you cannot do it." It is not possible.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, experiment is there. Just like in... Hindus, we burn the body into ashes. How the soul is transmigrating? This is scientific experiment. The Bhagavad-gītā says nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ. Everyone is seeing the body is burned into ashes, but still, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). He's going to another body. How it is going? So the soul is not burned.

Rūpānuga: We were having a meeting with the other scientists, and they were challenging you. They were saying, "Show us one experiment. Show us one experiment!" That's the way they are.

Prabhupāda: There are so many experiments.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So you challenge them, the scientists.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Somebody asked that "I love my dog. Looks like the dog comes when I call and behaves very nicely." So this question was asking that the dog might have soul. So he asked Billy Graham, "What do you think?" So Billy Graham was saying, "No, dog has no soul."

Prabhupāda: This is dogmatic. This is not scientific; it is dogmatic.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, you can challenge them with this, that "Why don't you prepare a chemical egg and give it to the incubator and let life come? If you cannot do that, then don't talk nonsense." This is simple thing. Analyze, take a sparrow's egg, small, analyze what chemicals there are, and combine in the same way. Why they do not do that?

Rūpānuga: It's too hard.

Prabhupāda: Then why do they talk nonsense? You stress on this point. If they say "Yes, we shall do after millions of years," then he should be challenged that "You give up your title, 'Doctor' let the sparrow take it. He's doing. You give up, nonsense, your title. Don't talk nonsense. The sparrow, without taking any doctorate title, he's doing that. So what is the value of your doctorate title?" Challenge him. Seriously challenge. This point you present, they cannot do it, it is certain. It is not possible to be done like that. Spirit soul is different complete from the matter. They have to acknowledge it.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: You can challenge that "You cannot do it."

Rūpānuga: You once said that because people are becoming more educated and scientific-minded, they are rejecting these religions. So similarly, because they are becoming more educated and scientific minded...

Prabhupāda: So-called educated, they are becoming fools.

Rūpānuga: But still, they are challenging. But they, for the same reason, will challenge the scientists in due time. Because they become..., if they become more scientific-minded, then they will challenge these statements that the scientists never verify. Constantly they are saying, but they never do anything.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Rūpānuga: But still, they are challenging. But they, for the same reason, will challenge the scientists in due time. Because they become..., if they become more scientific-minded, then they will challenge these statements that the scientists never verify. Constantly they are saying, but they never do anything.

Prabhupāda: Our challenge should be "Do it." If you cannot do it, then you give up your title, let it go to the chicken. Huh? What is the wrong there, if we say "Dr. Chicken," "Dr. Frog"?

Sadāpūta: These theories of theirs are taught in high schools and colleges as fact, practically. Like the student in Gainesville was telling us that he was taking zoology, and they were teaching evolution, and they were saying that it wasn't a theory anymore but it was a proven fact, and that he was quite dissatisfied with that.

Prabhupāda: Proven fact?

Sadāpūta: Yes, that's how they are teaching it. They don't even teach evolution as a theory anymore, but they say it's been proven as a fact now, what they are teaching.

Prabhupāda: So how it is fact? You cannot do. So what is the fact?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are cheating. There is also a big man in Bombay who is working on this line. He's a member of this International Society for the Study of the Origin of Life. Now they call... In fact, they use a Sanskrit word for this life coming from chemicals, they call jīvana particles of life. So they are also catching this idea that life is nothing but molecules. So along with this article, they are also writing from Bombay. So actually it is worldwide, all over, this concept. In India I think a little more interesting to give seminars along these lines. In India in the universities, the reaction of the... My feeling is that it will be different.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. So do it.

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is such a challenge. Your statements are such a challenge to their so-called science that they're still in shock. I still think that they do not take us seriously yet because it's such a difference to what they are saying. Soon, gradually, they'll take...

Prabhupāda: Therefore we have engaged these scientists. They are going to publish one paper.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good.

Prabhupāda: Sa-vijñānam.

Hari-śauri: That's the name of the paper.

Prabhupāda: And other scientists have joined. Scientist in four subject matters, an Indian gentleman.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Choudhuri's wife has challenged that "If you are Hindu, then you will do it."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To her husband. Oh. (laughter) It tells about, it quotes you as saying that how you began this movement. Two boys joined you, Chuck and Bruce-Brahmānanda and Acyutānanda, Charles Barnett and Bruce Scharf.

Prabhupāda: Charles is called Chuck?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That is now prohibited.

aśvamedhaṁ gavālambhaṁ
sannyāsaṁ pala-paitṛkam
devareṇa sutotpattiṁ
kalau pañca vivarjayet
(CC Adi 17.164)

If you refer to śāstra, the śāstra says in Kali-yuga these should be avoided. At that time, when there was aśvamedha-yajña, gomedha-yajña, that was not for eating. That was to prove the strength of Vedic mantra, how the animal was put in the fire and again gave him a new life. So where is that Vedic chanter, Vedic brāhmaṇa, yajñika brāhmaṇa? There is no such things, powerful brāhmaṇa. Therefore it is to be avoided. And that was not for eating purpose. To put one old animal in the fire and again he comes back with new life, that was the purpose. This question was raised by Chand Kazi to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu challenged him, that "What is this your religion, you are killing your father and mother?" So he referred to this, that in..., "Formerly they were sacrificing cows in Your śāstra." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu explained that sacrifice was not meant for eating. That was meant for renovating new life. That is not for eating.

Conversation at House of Ksirodakasayi dasa -- July 25, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So they liked, but I spoke very strong thing against Ramakrishna.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: Because you spoke the truth, facts.

Prabhupāda: And I challenged that "Any question? Please come." Dr. Kapoor says that...

Indian man: O.B.L. Kapoor? Vṛndāvana...

Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana, yes. That "Bhaktivedanta Swami speaks as strongly as Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī was speaking." You know that?

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: Oh, yes. I met so many times. I understand also.

Prabhupāda: He said that.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Nava-yauvana: So when we preach to people we should first convince them that God is the supreme controller, the supreme proprietor. Then further understanding can come.

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is a supreme controller. That you have to admit. You are not independent. Why they foolishly think independent? What is the reason they're foolishly thinking independent? What is their independence? Nobody is independent. So why they are foolishly thinking independent? You first challenge them. They are not independent. Are you independent? So why they foolishly declare independent?

Jñānagamya: They are ignorant.

Prabhupāda: So what is the position then? They are in ignorance, and they are leading the society as scientist, philosopher, politician. That is misleading. They cannot go even freely in the so-called moon planet excursion or Mars. Still, they are declaring independence.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That also I have already explained, you depend on another chicken's egg. You cannot manufacture the egg. That is my challenge, that you manufacture the egg by chemical combination and put into the machine. That you cannot do. Another living chicken must lay down the egg, then you can reclaim. You're dependent. Where is your independence? Everywhere you are dependent. How you declare independence? Where is your independence?

Dayānanda: They think that the countries that have the materialistic advancement or scientific advancements, that they are very well situated.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Nobody. Do you think your king, Shah, is also happy? No. His sons, daughter, they are happy? No. He is also anxious how to keep his position, exalted position, he has to makes many plans, satisfy so many ministers, so many. He is also full of anxiety. And a small bird eating some grain here, he's attracted for the grain, but he's looking this way, "Oh, here is a man, here is man, he may not do some harm to me." So everyone is full of anxiety. Nobody can be free from anxiety. That is not possible. Sadā samudvigna dhiyam asad-grahāt (SB 7.5.5). Because we have adopted this material life, asad, our mind should always be full of anxiety. Nobody can be free from anxiety. That is not possible. Sadā samudvigna dhiyam asad-grahāt. Because we have accepted this temporary body, we have to be full of anxiety. This is law of nature. And if we act in this life to create another material body, then our all activities are spoiled. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. He did not ask about the constitutional position of himself, he simply engaged himself in dog's place(?). Then whatever activities he has done, it is simply defeat. Next body what he's going to get he does not know. If you become a minister in this life and next life you become a dog, then what is the benefit? Can anyone challenge this? "No, no, I'm not going to become a dog."

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: How they'll understand Kṛṣṇa? This is going on. And our, this movement has become little successful.... People give me such credit, "Swamiji, you have done wonderful." But I do not know what wonderful. I do not know any magic. I simply say that you accept Kṛṣṇa or Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That's all. That is my magic. And they are accepting it. They are accepting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. They do not make any interpretation, that "Kṛṣṇa means this, Kurukṣetra means this, Pāṇḍavas means this." No. We are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. You have seen our Bhagavad-gītā? That's all. (break) Before this, before this movement I started ten years ago, so many swamis, philosophers came in the Western country. Not a single person became a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is our challenge. And now you'll find thousands and thousands. Because, what is secret? "As it is," that's all. No change.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: There was a lake. So one small lamb was drinking water on the other side, and this side another tiger. The tiger challenged that, "Why you are muddying the water." So he said, "Sir, I am here, long away, I am not muddying." So anyway, he picked up some quarrel and killed him. So the idea was to kill him, but he picked up some, find out some fault. So anyone finding out. This man who wants to kill somebody else, he's not man, he's animal. Give the dog a bad name and hang it. That English proverb? You try to discuss on this point, how people can refuse the proprietorship of God. That is a very good point for preaching. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam. Everything belongs to God. That's a fact. Sleeping? Meditating? Either sleeping or meditating, what is the real fact? Meditating or sleeping?

Hari-śauri: I'm not feeling sleepy anyway.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Everything is under supreme control. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). But he is a rascal. He simply defies and suffers. One man is being slapped with shoes, so he is shameless, he says, "Oh, you have beaten me with shoes. All right, if you touch my wife, I'll sue you." Then the wife is beaten with shoes, then he says, "Oh, you have beaten my wife. All right, touch my son, I will sue you." In this way every member is being beaten with shoes, and he is simply challenging that "I'll sue, I'll sue." This is going on. He's punished one after another, but still he is so shameless that still he defies the authority. That is called asura. They're not very intelligent. "Next time I will see. Wait millions of years, I shall see..." So we have to deal with asuras. This is the position.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra (CC Adi 9.41). First of all, make your life successful by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then do good to others. Yesterday, I think, in Tehran, one boy came. He proposed that is it not good to help others? I immediately challenged, "What you have got you can help? What is your asset?" You cannot help. It is simply bogus proposition. If you can help, you can simply help by spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). "Sir, I have come to you." "Why?" "To request you that you become Kṛṣṇa conscious." "How?" Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, "Always think of Me, just become My devotee, offer little obeisances." Anyone can do, a child can do. You cannot do? What is the difficulty to become Kṛṣṇa conscious? Is there any difficulty? You haven't got to practice any yoga process, pressing your nose or keeping your head or this or that, no. Nothing. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ (BG 18.68). "Without any doubt you are coming back to Me." And that is the highest perfection, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). There is no difficulty in preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no difficulty to accept it. And the result is the supreme.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: It is Kṛṣṇa's desire. Nobody is useless. I was also useless. I could not do in India alone anything. This is... Again this example (laughs). Two useless makes useful. Intelligence alone cannot work. Money is required. One man was challenged, "You have no intelligence." So he said, "Yes." He was searching these..."No, why you are searching here?" "No, here is intelligence. If here is money, then my intelligence can work. Otherwise what is the use of intelligence?" But he was searching here," Whether I have got intelligence?" Simply intelligence... In industry also: land labor capital, organization, four things. Simple capital will not do. Simple organization will not do. A man may have very good brain power, organization, but if he has no money-useless.

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that very heading is a defamation.

Gargamuni: "We challenge you that you are ungodly. But we are godly because we follow the four principles." This man drinks, it shows a photo of him drinking.

Prabhupāda: "Ungodly face of Kṛṣṇa cult." This is the charge. That very heading is a defamation.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And also the information that he has put to substantiate that is bogus. And we'll prove point by point how it is bogus.

Prabhupāda: We should charge them "ungodly." "Ungodly face." This should be charged.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And also that these charges...

Prabhupāda: Others are subordinate. This is the main charge. We are spreading Kṛṣṇa, God, and he's "ungodly face." Minimizing the value of the movement.

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Pradyumna: The courts can take it up also. In Allahabad when they were doing about the Congress Party having the cow, they said this is of the nature... They were discussing what is God in the court to make a decision. Something, what is God, what is religion. We can bring it up in the court. That will make a case celebre. Case celebre, they call it, affaire celebre.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This case must be brought. Challenge them, "What do you know about God?" Explain. And we can prove God consciousness from every page of our books. That will be very interesting case. And we shall continue this unless this man is sufficiently fined.

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So the case is already in the court?

Pradyumna: No, it is just a challenge. The Bangalore University, some people at Bangalore University want to investigate his things. And then Sai Baba sometimes, he won't submit to be examined.

Prabhupāda: He submits?

Pradyumna: They want to have him come and examine him, that, "Do it and let us see." But he won't admit to be examined.

Room Conversation -- September 11, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Tanum āśritam. This concept of Indian, European is there because you are a mūḍha. Just directly charge him. Directly. That "You are a mūḍha, you are a rascal," immediately. Let him speak. And send it to the newspaper that this letter we have sent challenging this rascal, let him reply. If he does not reply, silent, that means he's accepts he's a rascal.

Hari-śauri: Yes, because Blitz has taken up to advertise that he's God, so now they should accept challenge.

Pradyumna: He said self-realization is God-realization.

Room Conversation (Bullock Cart SKP) -- September 12, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is religion. They do not know what is religion. They have no faith in God. This is their position. All bogus. I say it, challenging, do they know what is God? Ki bolo, Mr. Gupta, do they know? People in general, do they know what is God?

Gupta: They don't know what is God. But they only respect God out of fear.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is also good. Ārto arthārthī. Ārtaḥ. That is good. But still they do not know what is God. They have simply heard the name of God, there is God. That is good also. Than the rascals who deny the existence of God. So in comparison to them, they are very good. At least they accept there is something as God. God is good, God is kind, God is... But what is God they have no idea. That's a fact. That they do not know. Either the nonbelievers or believers. Both of them. They have no idea of God. This is the first time perhaps, in the world we are introducing, "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa."

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: How they can defeat us? We have got so solid ground. How they can defeat, these rascals? We consider them simply rascals and fools. And we call them rascals and fools. What do they know of religion? What do they know of God? They know slaughterhouse and killing and illicit sex, and killing the fetus. That's all. What do they know? They are not even civilized. We have come to make them civilized. They should understand. They are not civilized. They do not (know) how to eat even. The first principle of life is eating. They do not know how to eat. We are teaching them how to eat. They simply challenge, that's... When men are uncivilized, they do not how to grow food, they kill animals in the jungle and eat.

Room Conversation -- November 15, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) So my reason is alright?

Hari-śauri: Oh yeah.

Prabhupāda: Modern scientists (Hindi—about challenge)

Guest: (Hindi conversation)

Prabhupāda: Whatever Mars going? Finished.

Hari-śauri: Yes. They don't put anything about it now.

Guest: (Hindi conversation)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Grapes are sour. Full of sand. (Hindi conversation) (break)

Devotee: ...thirty-six thousand students so it's in a very, very nice area, just for the type of people we'd like to reach, you know, intelligent. And also it's a... Actually what it is, it's a motel that's had its, you know, it has no business there. It's surrounded by other more expensive...

Prabhupāda: So there is one building within the land?

Evening Darsana -- December 3, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes, I know these rascals. Therefore the country's position is the Godless India. They lost their culture.

Vāsughoṣa: They had big propaganda that Sai Baba is God also. He was saying in the... These professors challenged him, so he said, "How can an ant try and understand an ocean?" He made that statement, that the Professor at Bangalore University, Vice Chancellor said that, you know, so many... (break)

Prabhupāda: Does that mean we have to accept him? That does not mean we accept. (break) ...one is against this movement because we are presenting Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Guest (7): Suri Bhavantam (?) is a scientist. He was convinced by him just because of his magical powers. Otherwise he could not influence me. One of my friends who was sitting there, he told me, "Satya Sai Baba, he won't come this side," he said. I said, "I'll make him to come this side."

Prabhupāda: No, these are words. He has been challenged also by a group of educated men. So there are some fools, rascals. That is all...

Guest (7): I have got belief in God, and so Narendra, my friend was sitting by my side. "No, if I sit there only, he will go that way. I want to see him this side."

Prabhupāda: Do you accept Sai Baba as God?

Guest (7): No, no, not at all.

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: And in Parliament it has been denied. Rather, Home Member said that "We have no information that they are CIA." Parliament challenged, "What steps you are going to take?" And "No step. There is no information." They are afraid of the American government because of this Bangladesh affair. And otherwise government appreciates this movement. But because the Americans are there they think, "Some may do something," in this way. Yes. But there is no such chance. They are all devotees. They have nothing to do...

Dr. Ramachandra: This is a purely religious movement.

Prabhupāda: That is right. They have nothing to do with politics. And if they found any politics, they can hang me. I shall go.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (1): Then minds are spoiled; that is true. Their minds are, all Indian youth completely.

Prabhupāda: But you have spoiled them. You have given this impression that "This 'religion, religion, religion' has spoiled our country. Now throw it, all these books, in the water." The leaders say that. "Take to technology." They come to me. They challenge, "Swamiji, what this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement will do? Now we require technology." This is ignorance.

Guest (2): If Gītā is properly explained to a Westernized Indian, it gets accepted sooner than the difficult...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That means rascalism. Not a single soul has been created till now and these rascals are claiming that they are going... And they are scientists. We have to accept them as scientists. Just see. This is... Not only now. One gentleman, one big doctor, chemist, he has got Nobel Prize, he came to California and our Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara, he was in the also in the university, he's also doctor and chemist. So he was speaking on the chemical evolution. So he's my student, he challenged him, that, "If I give you chemicals, can you prepare life?" "That I cannot say."

Dr. Patel: Even a living cell of life...

Prabhupāda: No, it was meeting. When Svarūpa Dāmodara challenged him, that "Suppose I give you the chemicals, right chemicals. Can you prepare a life?" Then he said, "That I cannot say." Why? Why do you say nonsense?

Dr. Patel: But their definition of life is very meager. They say that life is a chemical imbalance, a state of chemical imbalance. That is wrong. Life is something higher than...

Prabhupāda: Therefore these chemists—they are predominating—so how it is possible to take their version? Ayi. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...a simple version of Vaiṣṇava.

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, why these boys are attracted ? They have not come here to see your industry for materialism. They have come here for spiritual. They have not come to see your cycle and sewing machine. Actually, they have come, Vṛndāvana, Māyāpur. And they are not poverty stricken. We go to Europe being poverty stricken. That Lady Wellington, he (she) challenged one of my Godbrothers, Bhakti Tīrtha Mahārāja, that "You Indian people..." She was very proud, Lady Wellington. Wellington was Iceland. She said that "You Indian people..." Of course, it was friendly talk. "You come to our country, we give you some stamp, degree, and you earn your livelihood in India. What you have come here to teach?" This was the challenge. Actually, that was happening. We were sending our men to England to become bar-at-law, to become MS, CP, to become this and that, and they became here big men. So why you people come here to teach us? This was the challenge. In those days a little favor of Englishman was considered a great boon. In Bengal there is a word, saheb śubha. Saheb means European, especially Englishman, and śubha means "auspicious." So if anyone can make friendship with a European, then his life is successful.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll get you some.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He mentioned that, that "My Kṛṣṇa is different imagination. My imagination of Kṛṣṇa is different." That is his position. He imagines. He has... (Hindi) "My imagination of Kṛṣṇa..." This is... How he can believe Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is preaching violence, and he's trying to draw nonviolence. The people will challenge, but he makes his own commentation, his own imagination. He said, "My imagination of Kṛṣṇa is different." This is his word. And actually... He is the student of Bhagavad-gītā and in his āśrama there is not a single picture of Kṛṣṇa. He does not believe in Kṛṣṇa. But believe or not believe, he was reading Bhagavad-gītā, had respect. That will give him some profit, there is no doubt. (break) Yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpam. Everything is clearly said in the Bhagavad-gītā. I speak, therefore, to my disciples that "You simply repeat like parrot Bhagavad-gītā and follow by your life. Don't try to become very big scholar, do interpretation. Remain foolish and believe in Kṛṣṇa. Then life is perfect." And actually that is happening. They never tried to eschew and... What is called, the English word? Draw out some meaning. Eschew or something?

Jagadīśa: Eschew is the right word.

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So in this way we have to fight. We should not be afraid for these rascals. Why you should be afraid? If they take to guṇḍā-ism, we shall engage fifty guṇḍās. "Come on. Let us see." We have to maintain that spirit. Anaye yei kare prabhu anaye yei sahe.(?) The Rabindranath Tagore's one poetry: "One who does wrong and suffers wrong, he is wrong." One should not do anything wrong; one should not suffer anything wrong. That is human. If somebody does harm to me, wrong to me, I cannot suffer it. I shall not do any harm to anyone. That's all right. But if you want to give me suffering, I must fight you. Why shall I suffer it? That is kṣatriya spirit. Yuddhe cāpy apalayanam. "If you are challenging, 'All right, come on,' I accept this challenge." We have to do like that. Now, this bāniyā spirit... Our Bhagatji, he purchased that land, and he's afraid of him. What is this? Bāniyā spirit. But you are kṣatriya.

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. So many dead bodies.

Setterji: I have seen about four men at the Pathan border, and the... One, this Korabhari, this ṭāṅgā, Victoria,(?) came with six Muslims. And they challenged us. Very... "We will kill you." We said, "Yes, come. You kill us; we will kill you. We fight." We were ready at that time because revolver was there and the Kurari Kundasa was there. One, my friend, he was from Gujawala(?). He showed this Kundasa, and his head cut out, and he was running...

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. Still running?

Setterji: Running! In Mahābhārata(?) I was heard that body was running. But actually I have seen at that time. Head was cut and the body was running.

Prabhupāda: Just see. (laughter) And then he fell down.

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is also Kṛṣṇa conscious. You see how many demons are killed by Kṛṣṇa.

Setterji: "Come on." You challenge. You see? I've declared. If they challenge us I am ready, "Come on." At the temple I challenged, "Come on! And you are 150. We don't be afraid."

Prabhupāda: So... (Hindi) You have lost your kṣatriya spirit.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Having Setterji with us... When he has (?) relax for few days, rest for few days.

Prabhupāda: Huh? If you have lost your kṣatriya spirit, then take him.

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Saved. Kṛṣṇa saved. Unless Kṛṣṇa saves, who can? So I had the experience of riot in Calcutta in my childhood.

Setterji: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: At any moment.

Setterji: "Who are afraid from death? Come on!" challenging... (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Soldiers, they forget that "We have to die." They fight for... That is another madness. In Hindi it is called kunchariya.(?)

Setterji: Kunchariya. (Hindi) That is... Ah.

Prabhupāda: Soldiers they do that. It is unnaturally he becomes. They become mad after killing. (Hindi) ...kṣatriya spirit. They must be trained up kṣatriyas. If he is bāniyā, he cannot do it.

Setterji: (Hindi) ...who have challenged us. So "Come on."

Prabhupāda: (laughs) So you are real husband. You gave protection to your wife.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: But why it is not with them?

Prabhupāda: Why it is not with you? First of all say why you are challenging them? (laughter) First of all challenge yourself.

Dr. Patel: (laughing) That's right. But they have not, their forefathers have got. We have at least with our forefathers.

Prabhupāda: No, no, their forefathers are the Aryans, the same forefathers, your forefathers.

Dr. Patel: They're Aryans, but they did not take the Vedic culture with them.

Prabhupāda: They did not take. You are not taking. That's the same thing.

Dr. Patel: Presently the whole world is...

Prabhupāda: That's all. That is our concern, how the world is misdirected. That we are challenging, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not that "East," "West," "you," "I." Everyone is a victim. Bhāgavata says, prāyena kalau asmin yuga-jana: "In this age everyone is condemned." It doesn't say that "These Eastern, Western..." Everyone is condemned. Kalau asmin yuga-jana. That is impartial. (to Mahāṁsa:) How are you? Everything is all right?

Mahāṁsa: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Pūrṇam. Pūrṇam idam. Pūrṇam adaḥ (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation).

Dr. Patel: It was a challenge to one scientist who taught nonsense...

Prabhupāda: Well... What...?

Dr. Patel: One man challenged by me, a student, you know, "Sir, you said there is no God. Can you make a living cell even of a..., not of, much less animal, of a plant even?" And he looked with open mouth. "Can you make a single cell living? Cell of. Not of the whole tree." That is nature. That is God. That is Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi (Bs. 5.35). Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntarastham. Paramāṇu. Āṇu. Then paramāṇu means smaller than the atom. Six paramāṇus makes one āṇu. Atomic dimension is the combination of six paramāṇus. So in that paramāṇu also the Lord is there.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Bhavabhūtī: It's a one and a half hour movie, and we're in about eight minutes of it.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Eight minutes. Showing our books? That I want. Let them read our books. Then they'll understand what we are.

Bhavabhūtī: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I just visited also our boat program on the Ganga. Śravanānanda has the boat. They distributed 15,000 Back to Godheads in one month in Bengali. Fifteen thousand. So I have challenged Śravanānanda. I told him we're going to distribute more Hindi books on this side of the country.

Prabhupāda: No, there the Hindi is not...

Bhavabhūtī: But here in this side we're going to start to distribute this Hindi Back to Godhead very profusely, just like in America.

Prabhupāda: And what about Gītār Gān?

Bhavabhūtī: Yes. Also that's included. Fifteen thousand BTG's and Gītār Gāns included. The boys are so enthusiastic now...

Prabhupāda: In the boat?

Bhavabhūtī: Yes.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: When I went to your MIT, I challenged that "Where is that technological department where a dead man can be brought into life?" It was interesting speech. The students gathered. This body is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā as machine. Do you know that? This body is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā as machine. Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā.

īśvaraḥ sarva bhūtānāṁ
hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati
bhrāmāyan sarva bhūtāni
yantrārūḍhāni māyayā
(BG 18.61)

Just like you make a tour by driving a motorcar, similarly, the jīvātmā is touring all over the universe riding on this machine. This is machine. So... Aiye aiye. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (guest enters) (Hindi) Aiye. We have arranged for your prasāda. Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. This is machine. This body is machine made by the material energy, as all other machine are made by the kṣitir-āp-tejo marud-vyoma, earth, water, air, fire. These are the ingredients, any machine.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: It is particularly mentioned. But this yantra is not ordinary yantra. You cannot make it. But it is yantra. It is made by somebody, and the ingredients are the material elements. So where is that technology? It is made of matter, and it is made by somebody as other machines are made with the material... (break) ...and made by somebody. So where is that advancement of technology? A motorcar, when stops, technology department can repair it and again it runs. So where is that advancement of technology that when this machine stops you run on, again repair it? This was my challenge in your institution. Can you answer this? You have got so many advancement, the nuclear energy and everything. But why you cannot give life to the machine stopped? Why?

Guest (1) (Indian man): There's no soul in it.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: So similarly, the driver also can say, "It is my car," and the proprietor also can say. So two persons, one driver and one passenger, or the proprietor.... And the body is machine. The subjects are there. Why you do not try to understand the subject matter? Then where is your advancement? That is my challenge. Why you are so much proud of your advancement of knowledge. What is this knowledge? Tell me. You are young man. I am giving you the challenge. Either you admit that you are not advanced or make advancement. Why you set aside this difficult subject matter and become proud by making a small machine that you are advanced? Where is your advancement? (Hindi) He is Mr. Bajaj, the proprietor of the Bajaj Electricity.
Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They can't. That, this nonsense speaking, is going on throughout the history, but they'll never be able. That is the fact. "We are trying. We shall do in future"—these things are going on. But this is all stories. We don't believe in these nonsense things. They'll never be happy. That is not possible. Therefore I challenged your technology that "Where is that department? Do it!" First of all do it. Suppose if a man is in business. He may say that "I am trying to become a millionaire." But he cannot say that "I am millionaire." So the so-called scientist, "Yes, we are trying." You are trying, that's all right. But when you become, then you call scientist. There is no possibility, and because you are trying I have to accept you are scientist? Recently in California University one professor came. He has gained the Nobel Prize, Chemical Evolution. They are trying to prove that life is generated by chemical evolution. So in that meeting I had my one student. He's Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara. He's also big chemist. So he knows. He talks with me. He has got the idea. He has written one book, Scientific Basis of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. So he challenged that "Suppose if I give you the chemicals, can you produce life?" The answer—"That I cannot say." Why he talks nonsense? He is theorizing that life is made of chemicals, but if you give the chemicals, why you cannot make life? When I was in South Africa... Where is that? Pretoria or something? There are many factories for chicken killing.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: Yes, that's actually the fact. The want to take their freedom, but they are accusing us.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So if you are sane man, let us sit down. First of all ascertain what is religion. Then we shall see whether your religion is genuine or my religion is genuine. First of all ascertain. Let there be an assembly, that "What is religion?" "We say that the law given by God is religion. Now you refute this." Nobody can manufacture religion. "God is one, and whatever He has given, law, that is religion. Now you refute it?" Give them this challenge.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: They say that because Kṛṣṇa displayed His activities when He was here...

Prabhupāda: Yes. God will play. That is God. God is not dead. Your God is dead. Our God is alive. That is the difference. God must be alive. Why God should be dead? (break) So you are under God's control. Then you say whether Jehovah is God or Kṛṣṇa is God. First of all you must know. You must let us know what do you mean by God. If you describe, "I mean God... by the word God, I mean this," then see whether it is applicable to Jehovah or to Kṛṣṇa. It is not the name. It is the person and the symptom. Just like water is liquid. So you say water, I say jal. But the liquidity of water is the same. So first of all you know what is the nature of God. Then you may say "Jehovah," I may say "Kṛṣṇa," another may say something else. It doesn't matter. Water is water. That is liquid. That's all. So first of all ascertain what is the symptom of God. Can we challenge them that "What is the symptom? How do you know that here is God?" Just like we understand here is water.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: First of all, our challenge is "What is your definition of God?"

Rāmeśvara: They will answer, "Let us first discuss the definition of brainwashing. Do not talk of God. We are not trying to talk of God. We want to talk about brainwashing."

Prabhupāda: So first of all you define.

Rāmeśvara: Brainwashing?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: The atheist class...

Rāmeśvara: Yes. They'll find out, "Oh, it says God died. What is this?" Then they'll challenge, that "This is not God. Kṛṣṇa is ordinary man."

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Hari-śauri:

āsurīṁ yonim āpannā
mūḍhā janmani janmani
mām aprāpyaiva kaunteya
tato yānty adhamāṁ gatim
(BG 16.20)

"Attaining repeated birth amongst the species of demoniac life, such persons can never approach Me. Gradually they sink down to the most abominable type of existence."

Prabhupāda: Just to keep you everlastingly in darkness He shows this līlā, that "See? I am dying. You are right that I am a man." Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā (BG 9.11). "You rascal, mūḍha, you remain in that condition." This is explanation. Otherwise how Kṛṣṇa can die? We do not die, His part and parcel. And how He can die?

Gargamuni: Well, they will try and separate Kṛṣṇa from His soul, His body from His soul.

Prabhupāda: Whatever you do, that is for you. It is not Kṛṣṇa's actual position. It is for you: "Yes. You see? I am dying." Just like sometimes Hindu-Muslim riot, many Deities of Kṛṣṇa, all broken. So the Muhammadans, they think, "Now Hindu's Deity I have broken. Finished."

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:
Prabhupāda: So God has to deal with so many rascals, fools, in this material world. Sometimes He displays His pastime like that. Therefore who will understand? Only the devotees will understand. So you do not understand Kṛṣṇa. We are devotees of Kṛṣṇa. We know the secret. To keep you perpetually in darkness, He manifested such līlā that He is dead, finish. Just like the idol-breaker. They think, "Now their Kṛṣṇa is finished. We have broken." During Hindu-Muslim riot they do that. They break their mosque, and they break their temple and idol also.

Rāmeśvara: Just like Prabhupāda gave the argument... Because this one man was challenging that "This Kṛṣṇa is simply sex symbol, dancing with so many women, having so many queens," so Prabhupāda's challenge was: "But where is the pregnancy? Where is the abortion when He was dancing with the gopīs? Therefore this is not ordinary. This is beyond the material. It's spiritual." That's a big challenge they make.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: That will happen one day.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That will guide the whole nation. The rascals, anyway, the naked and prostitute-hunter, what they can do? These third-class, fourth-class, tenth-class men are being elected. There is no happiness. There is no solution of problems. All tenth-class men. I directly challenged one gentleman that "You are all tenth-class men." Pāpa... Pāpa...

Hari-śauri: That man in Perth.

Prabhupāda: "There is no first-class man now governing the situation. All fourth class, fifth class, tenth class. There is no first-class man." I challenged him.

Hari-śauri: When he went out the door he said, "Oh, well, I suppose I'd better go back to my fourth-class life."

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. You are already.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Pandemonium, yes. This has to be reformed. You cannot avoid these four classes working under the superior instruction of brahminical culture. Then everything... This life successful, next life is back to home, back to Godhead. That is civilization, no speculation. The formula is already there. Bhagavad-gītā is the guidance, as it is. "Be happy here, and next life hope. Why you are disappointed? Take this way and be happy." This is our movement. We are not going to exploit anyone. We are giving the right path: "Be happy in this life and next life also." This is our mission. Para upakāra. They are blindly following some ways of life. Blind men, certainly, without guidance, we are falling down in the ditch. Once this human life is misused, he falls down in the ditch. He does not... He becomes a tree. "Stand up there for one thousand years. What you can do?" This risk they are taking. They do not believe, therefore, there is next life. And wherefrom this life came, varieties? These rascals have no brain, and they are passing as scientist, politician, philosopher, all rascals, tenth-class men. Tell them. Challenge them, "What do you know about the value of life? Your brain must be washed to clear out all the dirty things." Our duty is that.

Room Conversation with Sannyasis -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: Without your activities this man could not have written that... He could not have had that understanding. If you had not started this movement, there would be no difference, no contrast. There would just be Māyāvādī in the Western world.

Prabhupāda: Yes. People heard that Indian philosophy is Māyāvāda. Māyāvādam asac chāstraṁ pracchanaṁ bauddhaṁ ucyate. Caitanya Mahāprabhu repeatedly said, māyāvāda bhāṣya śunile haya sarva nāśa: "He is doomed." Māyāvādī haya kṛṣṇe aparādhi. These are the direct charges against the Māyāvāda. My Guru Mahārāja also, a staunch enemy of the Māyāvāda philosophy. And you are also singing, nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādī. The śūnyavādī are the Buddhist, and nirviśeṣavādī are the Māyāvādīs. Paścatya-deśa, they are embarassed with this śūnyavādī and nirviśeṣavādī. Now we are trying to give them solid personification of the Absolute Truth. Here also, India, they are spoiled by these Māyāvādī. Now it is in your hand, able hands. You are resourceful, intelligent. Spread this Vaiṣṇava philosophy and challenge this Māyāvāda and śūnyavāda. Thank you. Jaya. (devotees offer obeisances) Here is a would-be Vaiṣṇava. (laughs) Very nice. He is a very nice child.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Challenge them like this, that "First of all do it. You are less than the chicken. Why you are claiming so much honor? We treat you, you are fig. You are less important than the chicken. Prove that you have got some power; then claim that you are scientist." Hm? Is that argument all right? What will be the counterargument?

Gurukṛpā: A sane man would accept.

Prabhupāda: They're all rascals. They do not know anything; still, they are claiming very high position.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So we have to challenge them like that. And as soon as you challenge, "Yes, wait millions of years." That's all.

Satsvarūpa: They say, "Actually we are working on that, how to make rain."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Satsvarūpa: They'll say, "Yes, actually we are working on that problem of making rain."

Prabhupāda: What is the working? People are suffering; you are working. There is a Bengali proverb, sate kusti dolpe gelun.(?) There was a big fair. One has to go there. So he began to dress himself nicely. So the time occupied for dressing, in the meantime the fair was finished. (laughs) Sate kusti kolpe gelun.(?) These are practical. You need immediately water. These rascals say, "Yes, wait. Wait for future."

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: Yes. Nanda-kumāra wanted to do that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nanda-kumāra, as a sannyāsī, he should better preach. I have no objection. It is up to you to decide. I don't give much credit to the scientists. I give them credit as far as they deserve. It is not that I don't give them credit. Why shall I not? But they deny the existence and they say "We shall conquer over nature, and we shall make according to our necessity." These rascals I challenge.

Satsvarūpa: Just like you give credit to your cook.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: But that does not mean that the cook is...

Prabhupāda: Everything.

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Take credit as much as you deserve.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Practically everything. But these two we challenge. We can challenge. They know. Therefore they want to bluff. They know that it is not possible for them to know. They know it perfectly well. It is not possible for their so-called science to understand what is the situation of this planetary system and what is the origin of life. They do not know. They admit. Two things unknown. Everything is unknown, but especially these two things. Simply speculate and bluff and... Mūḍha. And we consider them as rascals. That's all. By taking information from Kṛṣṇa, we understand these are rascals. Duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15), bas.

Gurukṛpā: Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we say that... We say, "They are rascals," and they say, "These are rascals, brainwashing." This is the position.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: We are challenging scientists that "Life cannot be produced by chemicals only. Life comes from life." They're all big, big chemists. There is another Ph.D. Another M.A.C., M.A.C., this Oriya, Faree(?). He can also join.

Gargamuni: Śrīla Prabhupāda? I would like to see Tarun Kanti Gosh. He once told me any time you wanted to go to Manipur he would give an official letter.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Gargamuni: So if I can show him this letter I can make arrangements now so that after Māyāpur we can go.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So he's a mathematician and another (sic:) physist, and you are chemist. So complete science. The pure science is mathematics, physics, and chemistry. So our three Ph.D.s, they are combination of pure science. Nobody can defeat. Mathematics is there, physics is there, chemistry is there. And my sentiment is this, (laughs) I challenge them, "No. Life from life, not matter." So perhaps I challenged first. Or anybody? Then life from life, not from matter?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda did it.

Gargamuni: I think we should make maybe a few plates just like they have shown the scientists, but a few plates of yourself with some quotations challenging these men.

Prabhupāda: Our another challenge is they have never gone to moon planet. (laughs)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, that's a problem now, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (laughter) See, sometimes when we give lectures... Some time ago we gave in Gainesville. We were talking about life and matter. Then some people came, and they asked that question about the moon thing. So we said we were working on it. And...

Prabhupāda: Another my challenge is that moon is beyond the sun. First planet is sun, and then moon. So if the sun is 93,000,000 miles and moon is above the sun 1,600,000, then how they can go to the moon planet in four days? It requires seven and a half months. That is my challenge.

Gargamuni: You mention also that "Sunday, Monday."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because actually there are many defects in science.

Prabhupāda: So they do not challenge you that "How your knowledge is perfect?" They do not challenge that?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.

Prabhupāda: No, then they can challenge like that, that "If our knowledge is imperfect, how your knowledge is perfect?" If they challenge like that, what you will answer? (break) ...child is imperfect, but when the child says, "This is spectacle," and if we ask the child, "How do you know?" "Father told me," then it is perfect. He received the knowledge from the father, that "This is spectacle," so although he is imperfect child, he speaks perfect. That is our method. That statement is not imperfect. We cannot be perfect. That's not possible. But if we receive knowledge from the perfect, then our knowledge is perfect. So all right. Take prasāda. It is now... (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...was giving us so much difficulty.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Because you were challenging, maybe? But one thing is... I have got experience. Because you took immigration from America, it was so difficult. If you had taken immigration outside USA, then it would have been easier. That was my case. When I was trying to get immigration from America, it was practically...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It was easier a few years ago, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Nowadays it is very difficult for anybody.

Prabhupāda: Oh, to get immigration?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: About four or five years ago, since.

Prabhupāda: But when we tried to get immigration from Montreal, I got it within three months. Of course, the Consulate General was a black man, and he appreciated my books very nicely. He immediately he accepted.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Yogeśvara: They may challenge us also.

Prabhupāda: What is that challenge?

Yogeśvara: That "What is your solution to hunger? We are feeding people because we have produced ways of making crops grow faster."

Prabhupāda: What you are feeding? Then why do you complain against me? If you are feeding, that is no challenge to me. You are rascal! You cannot do it. You are challenging me. This is the answer. If you are actually feeding, then where is challenge to me? You do not know how to answer.

Yogeśvara: Well we are also feeding them meat, but you object to that.

Prabhupāda: Meat... Why there are so many hungry persons? Meat or any, stool, whatever you like, you do. But why there are so many hungry persons? You are complaining that: "We are feeding." Are you feeding all of them?

Yogeśvara: They will say in India it is because of religion.

Prabhupāda: Again India, again. Take the total. Why say India and America...?

Yogeśvara: Well, because the example is most striking there of people who allow their children to go hungry because of their religion.

Prabhupāda: So we don't say that you keep them hungry. But can you give them life?

Yogeśvara: Therefore they start these programs that "You give up your religion."

Prabhupāda: You are also captivated by their program.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Yogeśvara: So they may challenge, "Do you mean to say that you can feed the whole world without meat?"

Prabhupāda: We don't say; you are saying. We don't say. We say that you must be punished without food. You are dying without food. That is your proper justice. We say that. We are not anxious to this daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. We are not. We give. Whatever we have got, we distribute prasādam. That's all. We are not concerned about their daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. That is not our business. Suppose there are so many persons, they are without food in the hospital. Doctor has prescribed, "No food." What you can do there? Can you show your sympathy? "Oh, so many persons are lying without... Let us give." Then you'll be beaten with shoes.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Understanding the laws of nature and the provider of the laws of nature is necessary.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That laws of nature is working. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). Huh? Andhā yathāndhair..., te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. Īśa-tantra, by the laws of nature they are tightly, hand and legs are, they are bound up. What they can do? Therefore Kṛṣṇa summarizes all the different types of tribulation. Kṛṣṇa said... These all kinds of tribulation is summarized in these four principles—janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). Ah. Bas. You make solution these, first of all. Then talk of all nonsense. You cannot make any solution. There are different types of suffering, but they are all summarized in these four words-janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. Make solution. This is God's challenge. You are challenging God in His arrangement, and God's challenge is that "Here are four principles. Do something for these, rascal. Then you talk of solution."

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That is the... That is in the via media. The real trouble is there—janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. Now if you can make change... Suppose you are now a dog. You can become a man. But that is not solution. Or you are man; you can become a demigod. Karma. But that does not make solution! Either you become demigod or man or dog or cat or insect, you must have these tribulations, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). That is God's challenge. You first of all make solution. But you are eternal. Why you are in this condition? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You... That means you are eternally suffering, punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), simply changing the position. But suffering's there. So you are taking credit by little change of the position. And that is your foolishness. And God challenges you, "You make solution of these things." Why little change? Suppose I am... I have got so many centers. Sometimes I live in the palace, other times a cottage. So this is change of position. But I am the same man. So whatever comfort or discomfort is there in that you France palace, the same comfort and discomfort is in this cottage. But if I think, "Now I am in the France palace, or Bhaktivedanta Manor palace. I am happy," that is foolishness. They are doing that. You are eating something bitter. So it is in the iron pot. You are thinking, "If I put it in the golden pot, it will be nice." That is your foolishness. The taste, either you put in the golden pot or iron pot or in the floor, the taste is the same. So our taste is this eating sleeping, sex and defense. So that is going on.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So you know all these things. Dedicate your life to turn over all these rascals. You can do that. You are in a position. And present this life is from life to the..., they have Nobel Prize. Yes. You challenge. Will it not be a great challenge?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Even the greatest challenge...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: When a common man will challenge them that "You are rascal. You are blind. You are showing us road?" Then it will be. I refuse to accept it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Also, first of all, we have to show that their theory...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara:...is wrong.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 10, 1977, Mayapura:

Jayapatākā: Who appointed, that I don't know. But that's his business. And then Dāmodara was telling about his journey on the bus and train, but Madhusūdana Mahārāja didn't seem very interested. He criticized, "Why do you go to Kumbhamela? What is going for bathing? What is special about that bath?" And then he challenged that, "We go for preaching." "But what preaching you did there?" "No, I preached, gave lectures."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jayapatākā: Dāmodara Mahārāja said, "I gave lecture at the mandira, Gauḍīya Maṭha."

Prabhupāda: In Allahabad.

Jayapatākā: One advantage is they don't know any... Of course now, we have so many Bengali devotees. They don't know much English. They can generally speak most only in Bengali, most of these Godbrothers.

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, he's surrounded by these men. I don't think he'll come. I think they will...

Jayapatākā: They'll influence him not to come.

Bhavānanda: Yes. They are always there, around, around, around.

Prabhupāda: No, whatever they like, they do, but I think we shall not insist on this point because we cannot stop the association.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: You shall combine a few Ph.D., D.H.C., to challenge these so-called scientists all over the world. Amongst the scientists, if you speak of God, they will deride. He'll reject you. Is it not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To some extent, yes. But...

Prabhupāda: No. It is prohibited to speak of God among the scientists.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But in India, if he speaks in India to the scientists, they will receive it much more readily.

Prabhupāda: Hm. In Western countries they have no brain.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, cow dung.

Prabhupāda: Cow dung. Cow dung, no. Man's dung. (laughter) Cow dung is pure. Man's dung. In our youthful ages we used to say, dadang dang.(?) Our one professor, Mr. Cameron, English professor, he was Scotsman. In our I.A. class or B.A. class he was... So that time Patel's Bin(?), intercaste marriage... We were young man. We were supporting. So before the professor's coming in the blackboard we wrote, "Dadang dang Patel's Bin dang," (?)and like that, in Bengali. So Professor Cameron came. He saw, "The boys, they have written something." So he simply read it, remained silent. Then he began his teaching. Then when the hour is over, he erased the blackboard, and he wrote. He wrote in this way-jakhan tomār biye pas korbe, takhan tomār biye kote pade.(?) He wrote it and read it. So the purport is that tomār jana.... "When you'll pass your B.A. examination, then you'll be allowed to marry. Now you don't talk of this Patel's..." So we clapped him, and (laughs) it was very nice. Mr. Cameron.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:
Prabhupāda: The whole world is going on like that. They're talking like very big scientist, big philosopher, very big, big, big, but real thing they do not know. "So where is your brain?" Challenge them like that. "You cannot answer. You are big, big scientist, putting forward, 'by combination of chemical...' So why don't you combine the chemical and give the dead man to become alive? Where is your brain? You simply say 'combination of chemical,' but you take the chemicals and combine, then we can understand you have got brain. That you cannot do, falsely taking prestigious position that you have got brain. Actually you have no brain. Cheating people." Write articles on this. They have no brain at all. (Bengali) In India there is a prejudice that you should not lie down putting your head towards northern side. Whatever truth may be, one man was asked that "Don't keep your head toward northern side." So he answered, "Where is my head? The head is already cut off." So these people are like that. They are making propaganda of "brainwash," but where is your brain? Challenge them, "Where is your brain?" Cannot answer this simple thing. "Where is your brain?" Write a strong letter on this point and try to publish it. "If there is brain, there is question of washing or doing something else. But where is your brain? You have no brain."
Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Oh. If we challenge them that "You have no brain. You cannot answer this," then what will be their answer?

Ādi-keśava: They will say to us, "Well, we have brain, and it is functioning. Otherwise how could I be speaking to you now? How could I even answer you?"

Prabhupāda: But that, speaking and barking, is the same thing. The dog is also barking. Where is the difference? He is speaking in a different language, that's all. So does it mean the dog has got brain? The dog is barking, and you are speaking. What is the difference?

Ādi-keśava: They say, "We have art. We have science."

Prabhupāda: Whatever you may have, but you cannot answer the ultimate question. They have got also science, art. A dog can understand that a foreigner is coming, and he begins to bark, "Yow! Yow! Yow!" and the master understands that somebody unknown is coming. You have got that science, that from mile or some, some distant place you can understand that some unknown person is coming. But dog can understand. He has got this art. He is better intelligent than you. Everyone has got some particular. That does not mean there is brain. Brain means to understand the problem of life. That is brain.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: So we'll challenge them like that, "What is this loss of identity? You don't have anything to lose."

Prabhupāda: "Who are you? What is your identification? That you do not know. Rather, we are teaching that identifying yourself with this body, you have lost your identity. That is brain. (pause) If you say 'beyond our intelligence,' that means you have no brain. And we can explain. Therefore we have got brain. (pause) You have so many technical insti..." That I challenged in the M.T. (M.I.T.), that "Where is your..., that technology that when a dead man is stopped, you can replace life by technology? Where is that department?" They could not answer. Technology means the car has stopped. Go to the expert. He will repair it and do the needful. Again you will run on. That is technology. And where is that technology? As soon you say "beyond our intelligence," then don't talk nonsense. Your intelligence is not perfect. So where is your brain? This very point will solve. "You have no brain."

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: It is a good chance for explaining our mission. You should very carefully do it. Finish. Lay it... (break) (someone enter and offers obeisances) I was talking with Ādi-keśava that "There is no question of brainwash, but you have no brain." You have to prove. "How I have no brain?" "Because you do not know what is the difference between a dead man and living man. For centuries in the history, you people, you had no brain that whether the body is important or the active principle which is working within the body, that is important. You have no brain." Challenge them. Which one is important? The body's important or the active principle which is moving the body, that is important? What is important? Hm?

Tripurāri: Active principle, the soul.

Prabhupāda: So what information you have got about the active principle?

Tripurāri: They have no information.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No information.

Prabhupāda: Then there is no brain. Where is the question of brainwash? You have no brain at all.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Don't bring now scripture. We are talking in common language, common sense, that within... You cannot understand it. Therefore where is your brain? The dog also cannot understand. He's simply identifying with this body, and you also doing that. So where is your brain? Man is rational animal. Where is your rationality? If (you) avoid rationality, you are as good as dog. Where is your brain? Argue on this point. Dog... If one big dog thinking, "I am greyhound " or "this big body I am..." The lion also thinking, "I am so powerful. I am this body." So I am also thinking like that: "I am American, very rich." But both of them—no understanding that how you are powerful, why you are powerful, what is that active principle. Then where is your brain? Why man is important than the animal? It is common sense. So it is not brainwashing, but it is giving brain, this movement. They have no brain at all. So argue on this point. Our challenge is that "You have no brain. Where is the question of brainwash? You cannot understand the simple thing, which is important."

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: How...? What does he say about our books?

Satsvarūpa: One time I heard he challenged a devotee, "Where is your Lord Nṛsiṁha-deva now to save you?" And also, "We have heard that if the Lord is blasphemed, you're supposed to either give up your life or leave the place, so why don't you do? Or cut out the..., cut out your tongue. So why don't you do that now?"

Ādi-keśava: They used that as one legal argument. They said that one of our devotees should be put in the mental hospital for his own protection, because otherwise he would go and kill himself. And the court said, "Why is that?" They said, "Well, because in their books it says that if a devotee hears someone blaspheming the spiritual master or Kṛṣṇa, then they have to commit suicide."

Prabhupāda: No, they will argue on so many things.

Ādi-keśava: "Or cut their tongue out." They said, "Either they will cut my tongue out or they will kill themself. So either way, they should be put in a mental hospital."

Prabhupāda: No, or you go away from that place.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Again you... Again we... How is that?

Satsvarūpa: They could challenge that nature's machine is very wonderful, but they can make a machine out of metal and electronics...

Prabhupāda: "They can make."

Satsvarūpa: There are such machines that have better memory and can figure...

Prabhupāda: What is that better memory?

Satsvarūpa: Even a calculator can immediately multiply some...

Prabhupāda: But calculator machine, another man is working, so where is brain, calculating? The machine is made by another man, and it is being worked by another man, so where is the brain in the calculator? That is... So you are misled immediately. Bluff.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Explain. If you can explain Bhagavad-gītā nicely, then his father will understand. Where is that impediment? Ask them that "You are very proud of manufacturing very subtle machine, but can you prepare a machine like this? It is..." What will be the possible answer? If you challenge, then what will be the possible answer?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They avoid the issue. When they don't have an answer, they simply change the subject.

Prabhupāda: So why you allow him to? "Why you change?"

Ādi-keśava: They say you're talking about religion...

Prabhupāda: It is not religion. It is... I'm talking of machine. Religion, you do not know what is religion. That we shall talk later on. First of all come to machine. Religion. What you will know about religion? You are animal. So what you will know? Animal has no religion.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Jayapatākā: Hele snake. It doesn't have any poison.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So one snake charmer, he cannot capture that hele snake, and he is expecting to capture cobra. (Bengali) I challenge them that "First of all make one egg, a small egg. (laughter) Make some chemicals and give it to the incubator and let the chicken come." The rascals, they cannot do that.

Ādi-keśava: So they were saying, "I will not make an egg now. In twenty years I will make you a chicken." They say, "I can't make an egg now, but in twenty years I'll make you a chicken."

Prabhupāda: Without egg where is chicken? Where is that example? Why you are talking again? Where (laughter) is that chicken made? Rascal. Without egg where is the chicken? So challenge them like that. Prove them that they have no brain. So there is immediately, automatically... "You have no brain. Where is the question of brainwash?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a good one.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, where is brain? "Show. You are manufacturing so many machines." Challenge this, "Where is this machine?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Their conception of what intelligence is is completely different than our conception.

Prabhupāda: And that means they have no brain.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They would argue...

Prabhupāda: Just like a child's conception is different from the father. That means he has not developed the brain. That is only answer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't accept that God consciousness is...

Prabhupāda: So then... They may not accept, but the fact is there. You can challenge this, that body's machine. Apart from what is the energy that is moving the machine, but it is machine, we accept. So you prepare a machine like that. Where is that machine?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll say that "You also cannot."

Prabhupāda: I do not say that we are very good brain. We are servant of God. We have nothing to show, any brain. Our brain will be shown by our master. Our position is God. So we are not very much anxious to show our... But you are godless rascals. You want to show your brain. Show me machine. We have all accepted that supreme brain is Kṛṣṇa and we are servant. That is our position. We don't say that "Independent. There is no God." We don't. You say that. We are working under superior brain. So the case has to be proved by you, not by us. What is called, onus? What is that, onus?

Brahmānanda: Burden of proof.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: All tell, "You have no brain. So where is the question of brainwash?" That you have to prove, that "You have no brain. You are all dull-headed, animals." This is our challenge. "And animals cannot... Their brain cannot be washed, but washed, I have brain, yes... Because a human being, we have tried. At the present you have no brain. All useless."

Hari-śauri: But, you say, by presenting this to the court, then they'll have to prove or they'll have to try and disprove or establish that they have a brain, and then the whole thing come out, what is actual intelligence and what is simply cat-and-dog intelligence.

Pradyumna: Then we say also ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). We say "washing."

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: "Your Bible, you take, but we have got our Kṛṣṇa. Dharmāviruddha-kāma. Then why you are taking contraceptive, rascal? You're killing your children. That is very good? Unrestricted sex, and when she is pregnant you kill. Are you human being or rākṣasa demon?" Challenge them like this.

Hari-śauri: I saw a Chicago newspaper. I think Jayapatākā's mother must have brought it. And there was a page, and there was two big columns advertising abortion, so many different places you could go...

Prabhupāda: Everyone knows.

Hari-śauri: ...for quick and easy abortions.

Prabhupāda: Abortion, child-killing. They are civilized?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're becoming very quickly rākṣasas.

Prabhupāda: And eating fetus. So you are rākṣasas, less then rākṣasas. And they're criticizing us.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes, I sent him. (laughs) He challenged that his title is purchased.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They applauded that.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They applauded at that meeting.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If he knows about, anything about Caitanya, why should he say like that? Bogus temple. By attempting to establish a temple like that, he has diminished his value. And therefore it is doubtful whether he actually obtained this. Now, our Bon Mahārāja also writes "Doctor."

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is very encouraging. So pursue this method with your assistants. That is our challenge. That will enhance the importance of our movement.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They even suggested that in the future, if we had any plan like that, we should just let them know about two or three weeks ahead so they can arrange others also in the other departments.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Do immediately. Your business is that. You take these scientists and other intelligent... Everyone is intelligent, but especially to convince them... "Birds of the same feather..." Otherwise they'll not mix. We are already haṁsas, but to mix with the crow, we shall dress ourself like a crow. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So if you combine together and go to any scientist, you challenge and prove scientifically. And still he sees it mistake. You do not know what is life's position, but we shall. Life is different. Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). Without life, this matter has no value. This room is well decorated, well furnished. Why? Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat. Because the life is there. If there was no life, then who cares for Bombay? Heaps of stone, that's all. Who cares for it? So you do not know that particular item and try to convince them according to the modern scientific... Then we shall be triumphant. Everything. Everything. Challenge these rascals, that "You have got power and you will get more power by serving Kṛṣṇa." Your presentation was very nice.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Make them come, make them come. Treat them nicely. Give them good place. In this way increase the number of workers. Then people will, "Oh... They are not religious sentiments. They have got books, they have got scientists, they have got doctors." Is it not? And we can challenge them. "Come on, what is our education, let us test. We are prepared to talk with you like scientists." So you are all here now and... Organize in Bombay. Bombay, the center of Bhaktivedanta Institute.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Challenge them.

Śrīdhara: I think you met one of the head men.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, I met a head man. He is in Trombay, the Bhava(?) Atomic Research Center. But I discussed for about three and a half hours, and he showed me all the laboratory that he is doing. And then we sat together and then we discussed the...

Prabhupāda: Did you record all the talks?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This was not recorded.

Prabhupāda: It should be recorded.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Rajda: In Juhu.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Cooperate with us. It is scientific. Last night our Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara presented very scientifically. We can challenge any scientist, any philosopher. So if you become serious, if you cooperate with us, this institution can set a great example, not only in India, but to the whole world. So you are so kind, you have come to see me. You have got desire. So let us take it seriously.

Mr. Rajda: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Correct.

Prabhupāda: It is serious, but nobody has taken it seriously. Bhagavad-gītā is popular book. Everyone takes the Bhagavad-gītā and says, "I am student of Bhagavad-gītā." It is very simple thing. And if the leaders of the society, they set example, others will follow.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You have got that stage, so you should invite all scholarly people, every Sunday, Saturday, hold meeting, challenge them. In this way. Kavibhir nirūpito yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam.

idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā
sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ
avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito
yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam
(SB 1.5.22)

Avicyutaḥ artha. It is the infallible conclusion that your education should be perfected when you can prove through your educational talents that there is God. Then it is... Avicyutaḥ artha. Avicyutaḥ means there is no fallacy—infallible. So that we have to do. Any other scientists joined from India?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: India, not yet.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually, scientific knowledge can be appreciated more when one accepts that Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That should be propagated now. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you know simply Kṛṣṇa, then everything. Why I am challenging, from the very beginning, all these rascal scientists? Because I believe in Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Otherwise I am not a scientist. I cannot challenge the scientists. But yes, I can challenge. Because I know my knowledge is perfect.

Dr. Sharma: You sound like... You know when at the time of Yudhiṣṭhira rājasūya-yajña, there was Śiśupāla and the other people who objected.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No. The real thing he does not know. We know. We know on the basis of śāstra, authorities, ācāryas, so many. And what is your support? Your support is yourself. Then everyone will do that. His support is himself. Everyone will become authority. "I think, I believe." What is this nonsense, your belief? These things should be stopped now. (Hindi) Misleading, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). These conditioned souls, very stringently bound up hands and legs by the laws of nature, they are trying to lead the human society. This rascaldom must be stopped. You do not know. Say you do not know. That's all. Why you mislead others? Giving them false knowledge. If you do not know even the distinction between the living entity and the material elements... You are trying to prove the living entity is also combination of these material elements, chemicals. Such a rascal you are. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly said, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām, jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho yayedam (BG 7.5). It is very important thing. You do not know anything about it. Kṛṣṇa again says, nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ nainaṁ chindanti śastrāṇi. Negative definition. Still, you are so rascal, you do not understand, and you are misleading innocent persons. So combine together as many as possible and go and challenge.

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Read that whole thing.

Bhakti-caru: "As the nation observes this week the death anniversary of Dr. Amritsar, it behooves our news research to face a challenge 'for the plight of this downtrodden community.' " (break) "The story of the vast quantity of harijana in this ancient and illustrious land is a miserable story of shame and sorrow. Harassment and humiliation, operation and separation, poverty and pity. The harijana problems is not merely a social or religious or economic or political one. It is a complex problem involving many factors. It is, however, the most baffling national problem, posing a great challenge to the leaders, rulers and people of India."

Prabhupāda: On the whole—you read this article—why not say that "We can lead you to the highest perfection of cultural, social, religion." It will be...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want us to write a letter to the editor?

Prabhupāda: Not editor. The person who is the leader. Means the harijana movement. They are feeling frustration. Now we can give them the light.

Room Conversation -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Whatever eating, he can eat. God has supplied.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That teaching I also remember from the Bible. There's a statement that "Everyone is being supplied, so don't you think that God will also supply for you?" That's there in the Bible, I think, also. But the Christians, so-called, they don't heed it.

Prabhupāda: And therefore we challenge them, "Who is a Christian?" It is not a single one.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, if one studies the life of Jesus, we live more like that than any so-called Christian.

Prabhupāda: So we have got very nice diamond. Try to sell. But if there is a purchaser, he will purchase. Otherwise not. It is our duty to canvass. But we cannot sell iron instead of diamond.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And we are prepared to challenge or meet challenge of any scientist, any philosopher, any politician, anyone. It is not dogmatic.

Mr. Rajda: Not dogmatic at all.

Prabhupāda: The same: it is science. And Kṛṣṇa says, begins, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. So who can say anything against this statement? Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). But unfortunately our people takes Kṛṣṇa as ordinary human being, as... Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhaḥ. If we remain mūḍha, how we can be...? Because Kṛṣṇa comes just like a human being to teach us, we are taking that He's one of us. "Then I can also become Kṛṣṇa." This is going on. For so many thousands of years Kṛṣṇa is being worshiped as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There are millions of temples in India for worshiping Kṛṣṇa. He is ordinary man? So many big, big leaders came and gone. Who care for them? Why Kṛṣṇa is being worshiped still? These are the questions.

Morning Talk -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The residents of Vṛndāvana, they were never fearful.

Prabhupāda: No. (laughs) They know Kṛṣṇa is there. As soon as there is danger... There is torrents of rain. Innocent, they do not know. Kṛṣṇa: "Yes! Come on." They come, "Come on under the umbrella. Let there be rain. Now they are safe." Then Indra could understand, "Oh, the challenge... My Lord..." He was surprised that "A boy, cowherd boy, these people, they're worshiping as God? Oh, that may be..." Brahmā challenged, "This cowherd boy..."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Didn't they know who Kṛṣṇa was?

Prabhupāda: Who Kṛṣṇa was, they knew it. But "This cowherd boy is Kṛṣṇa?" Just like we are also despising these so-called avatāras. That does not mean we do not know Kṛṣṇa. We know actually Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we despise all these rascals, "avatāra." Their master is Kṛṣṇa they know. They're servants. Otherwise how they are devatā? But the mistake was that "My master has come, has become a cowherd boy and playing with insignificant and boys and girls, and He is my master?" That is going on. Sūrayaḥ. Muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ. You know this, the Bhāgavata? Muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ. Great, great stalwart demigods, they also become bewildered to understand. Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś cārtheṣu abhijñaḥ sva-rāṭ tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ (SB 1.1.1).

Room Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: What you can do when a man dies? Can you save? So similarly, everyone is being handled by the laws of nature. Nobody can do anything, such puffed up, "We can do this plan." All these political leaders, they are simply wasting time. They cannot do anything. Indira promised, daridra hata(?). But now he is, she is daridra. Poverty-stricken. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). These rascals, they challenging the material laws? Such a rascal? You are scientists, they are challenging. Are they not challenging?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, we challenge.

Prabhupāda: What kind of rascals they are, just imagine. Just like "I shall move the mountain with my head." Such rascal. And they are going on as scientist. You have to challenge them like that, that "You are all rascals, so challenging the laws of nature." But from the very beginning I called them rascals.

Girirāja: You were right.

Prabhupāda: Little ABCD, and they are trying to challenge the laws of nature. Little learning dangerous. Alpa-vidyā bhayaṁ kare(?). Just like in our society. Some of them have got little Sanskrit—they have become scholar, Sanskrit scholar. They're reading only Sanskrit. Rascal cannot read anything, and they are wasting money, four hundred, five hundred, like that, "Sanskrit Department," dozen men. You were speaking. So I have stopped it. Unnecessary. I have talked with so many foreign Sanskrit scholars. They do not know anything. Still, they are passing as Sanskrit scholar.

Morning Talk -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I am also going there for that. Otherwise...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think it's a real good challenge. I mean, I feel it's a nice challenge.

Prabhupāda: Now the... We can see practically how the system of civilization is bad, that this Indira Gandhi, rākṣasī, she became exalted in the topmost rank, and she thought... A person who is equally good or more than her, he was imprisoned. Then how the system is bad, that a rogue comes to the topmost post and a good man is put into the prison? Is not the system defective? Imperfect? Some way or other, you can become very important, and the actually important man you can cut down.

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: And big, big leaders, they are utilizing Bhagavad-gītā for so-called nationalism. Why? There is not a single word as "nationalism." As Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). Where is nationalism? There is no question of nationalism. So the difficulty is they do not understand even a line of Bhagavad-gītā, and still, the so-called scholars, philosophers, politicians, they are advertising that "I am student." They do not understand even a line of... This is my challenge. What do you think? They do not understand. Even Gandhi did not understand, not a single line.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Rāmeśvara: For sterilization?

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is practically... And I was surprised how such a abominable falldown came to Indira Gandhi. It is simply Kṛṣṇa's hand. No politician fallen in such a way in the history. Finished business. Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān yoniṣu (BG 16.19). It is simply Kṛṣṇa's hand. They are "This party, that party, that..." But to curb down Indira's power, it was simply by Kṛṣṇa directly. Hm. Go on reading. (break) "Don't worry. I am here." This is Kṛṣṇa. A boy, ten years boy, Kṛṣṇa, He was, "Come on," challenging. This is Kṛṣṇa.

Discussions with Devotees and Conversation with Dr. Ghosh -- June 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They are simply making false propaganda to keep their prestige. Useless. Now here is a scientist. He'll confirm it. What do you think?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Er... I think it's going to be very interesting. We are prepared for it, and it will be a great challenging, challenging field, if all the scientists and all over...

Prabhupāda: We have got some background. They have no background.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, we have Bhagavad-gītā and Prabhupāda, Kṛṣṇa. We are very prominent.

Prabhupāda: But they have no background. They are simply speculating. In the first place they have no background. Child. Doesn't know what... Do you think they are knowing?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I saw just little hint.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I saw a newsletter issued by the International Society for the Study of the Origin of Life from Chemicals. They just had an international meeting in Japan this April, and I am a member, so they send me a newsletter, national newsletter. They have interesting schemes. The next meeting is in 1981 in Israel. I was actually thinking of presenting a paper in the last meeting, but time was little short for us. So we are thinking of presenting papers in that international meeting. It is a whole scientific community all over. So I thought it will be very interesting to present our viewpoint and make it very strong. We are very small in number, but our thoughts will be very challenging to all of them, especially mathematics and physical chemistry together. They also have a journal, the Journal of the Origin of Life, and there the write only about chemicals. Everything is just like a story. So we make it a fairy tale, the molecular fairy tale, and it's very appropriate. All are stories.

Prabhupāda: They invented stories for going to the moon planet.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, they're making stories about everything.

Prabhupāda: A small toy sputnik, background, a big picture, and photograph.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Janmanā brāhmaṇo guruḥ. As soon as you take birth, brāhmaṇa is your guru. So where is brāhmaṇa? Tad-vijñānarthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Where is that guru? Therefore the society, chaotic condition.... As soon as you take birth, you have to accept brāhmaṇa guru. So there must be brāhmaṇas. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ māyā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). There must be brāhmaṇas. Otherwise where is human society? It is animal society. In the animal society they are clever, enjoy. "How! How! How! How!" Jackals and tigers and big, this animal, that animal, they are everything. Where is the brāhmaṇa? This is the first time attempt is being made—"There must be brāhmaṇas"—this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. They do not know the aim of life, how it should be organized, what kind of members there should be. No knowledge. Therefore I have challenged that "Your brain is filled up with stool. You do not know how human society is happy." Here is janmanā brāhmaṇo guruḥ. So where is brāhmaṇa? Janmanā brāhmaṇo guruḥ.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Make a great agitation. It will be done, if you work. (pause) A great challenge of the Bhaktivedanta Institute, for the whole world. Is it not?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes.

Bhakti-caru: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Na te viduḥ. These rascals, they do not know. That is going on.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Bhāgavatam, one portion may not be exactly like... Just like if you are in the midst of the petal, you cannot understand it is petal. You see it is flat. You have shown in the map, there is a point so many miles. So that petal, middle portion, you can take it flat. It is not flat. It is curved. Whatever conception you make, that is defective. Rascals. First of all you have to understand this. So don't make it like this, like this, like this, like... Whatever it is said, that is all right. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said aśraddadhānāḥ. No faith. Faithless. We have challenged, by chemical combination make a small egg, sparrow's egg, and produce.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then what is the value of your experiment? And still they are saying. This one point will kill them. Why do they not take this challenge? Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're rascals. There's no other answer. Only a rascal will go on maintaining that we can create life and they never have.

Prabhupāda: And they are getting Nobel Prize. Just see. Such rascals. And we say on the authority of Bhagavad-gītā, apareyam. This is inferior and that is superior. So how you can make superior with inferior ingredients?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Impossible. Without the superior touch the inferior cannot have any life.

Prabhupāda: That's a fact. They're seeing every moment.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: How you can understand which is beyond your understanding?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is saying he wants to understand according to the Bhāgavatam.

Yaśodā-nandana: Not we're challenging.

Prabhupāda: That you can describe.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is what we're having trouble with. We're not trying to do our own thing. We're trying to understand Bhāgavatam. That we're a little stuck on some point.

Prabhupāda: Bhāgavata is there. You try to understand.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Today the one question was asked in the class that "Isn't it true that as one makes advancement, māyā will put up so many obstructions, even more as the devotee advances?" So I answered by saying that "In the case of a pure devotee, māyā realizes that there is no need to challenge, because māyā is the servant of Kṛṣṇa. So when someone is fully devoted, just like Śrīla Prabhupāda, then māyā cannot touch, and she knows that he will use everything in Kṛṣṇa's service, so there is no need to put up any obstacle, and all facilities are given to the pure devotee for using everything in Kṛṣṇa's service."

Prabhupāda: So I can stop?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Gurukula boys are waiting to greet you with kīrtana. They can come in?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Anyway, don't be sorry.

Vrindavan De: No, no. It will be (Bengali).

Prabhupāda: So what you have paid for you coming and going? What is the amount?

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The Sai Baba has been challenged in so many ways.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The professors challenge him... What...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. There was a challenge?

Mr. Myer: Yes, one of his disciples was recently caught.

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. The party should take very serious investigation, and if possible, suspend government for the time being.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Suspend the West Bengal government.

Prabhupāda: So that will be nice step.

Abhirāma: So we should challenge these Communists.

Prabhupāda: What you'll challenge? They will challenge. Don't talk of... They say also, "Close this temple."

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ah. He's exposed now. "...whereas these men have actually qualified themselves in bona fide institutions of learning by submitting their theses for Ph.D. degrees. Dr. Kovoor boasts that for over twenty years he has challenged holy men to show him God or the soul, and no one has ever dared to take up his challenge. But now someone has come forward to challenge him. I have rented the Ramakrishna Mission Hall on the 20th of August, Saturday, 6:30 PM, and invite him to accept my challenge on the stage before the public to produce life from chance biochemical combination. All are invited to attend. Admission free. Bring some chemicals if possible." He rented a hall. He's put out a challenge in the newspaper. Now we'll hear what the public is saying. I think he gave a good reply.

Prabhupāda: Very good. This is preaching.

Room Conversation With Madhudvisa and others -- August 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dr. Kovoor has responded, and now Haṁsadūta has booked a hall and challenged him in all the newspapers to produce a mosquito. Free admission. They're serving halavā prasādam.

Prabhupāda: Actually, in mosquito you'll find the same arrangement like a big airplane, that wings, the body... But see the wonderful thing that not only there is mechanism but there is a pilot also. But your, this 747, it is big, there is mechanism, but pilot you have to bring outside. This is our challenge. And millions of such planes are born without your scientific knowledge. You produce one, then come to combat with God. This is our challenge. Simply jugglery of words, "We have manufactured this element, that element. Now, in future, we are going to...," this nonsense we shall not allow. Do it now. Hm? What do you think?

Śrutakīrti: Also, flying over here, that 747 I was flying on was three hours late because of some mechanical difficulty. So even they make it, they don't make it very nicely.

Prabhupāda: Imperfect.

Room Conversation With Madhudvisa and others -- August 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Actually they are useless. (laughter) So our challenge to this science society is all right? Hm? What do you think?

Satsvarūpa: Challenge them to produce even a small living being? What can he do? He can only say, "In the future."

Prabhupāda: That is useless. Then kill them. No future. Immediately. Why future?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Practically the scientific community is going to realize that you're their most..., biggest opposition. They're going to come to appreciate that because you're the only one, Śrīla Prabhupāda, who has dared to challenge all of these scientists. And as your representatives, when they see what we're...

Prabhupāda: Because they... Nowadays people say "We don't want any sentiment, religious. We want science." Rascal, where is your science?

Balavanta: They have only blind faith. "Big bang," all these things. There's no evidence, no proof, simply blind faith. And but for you, no one is challenging. They would simply go unchallenged.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It said in the article that in Ceylon, this man Kovoor has been challenging and being victorious for decades, challenging everyone, "There is no God. There is no soul." But now it said for the first time someone has turned the tables on him and challenged him for the first time. He never expected such a thing.

Prabhupāda: And public applauded.

Room Conversation -- October 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is a challenge to the, all these Nobel Prize-winner scientists. So our position is better.

Room Conversation About 10th Canto -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: "I wanted to kill you, but you kill me." This is the position. (laughs) So there scientists and other philosophers, they want to overcome the mystic power of Kṛṣṇa, challenging Kṛṣṇa, "What is God? We can do this. We can do that." The more they are doing this, they are more implicated and suffering. This is the position.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The importance of Bhaktivedanta Institute is there, not that theory molecule. Come on. We are challenging. Discuss like scientist, not like sentimentalists.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? It seems like we should... Next time we have a conference here, it should be done in the proper hall.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we have got enough place.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some people were thinking that Vṛndāvana is not a good place for building that hall, but...

Prabhupāda: No, there is no immediate necessity. We have got already nice building.

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) No sentiment—"Come on"—scientific challenge. (Bengali) No theory. (Bengali-Prabhupāda telling about Dr. Kapoor and scientific conference, Fiji, etc.) (Bengali) Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here is Kṛṣṇa-kāliya, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Jaya. (more Bengali conversation) What is that?

Śatadhanya: Well, this is the Bhāgavata-darśana in Bengali.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali conversation, with devotees showing Godbrothers various news-clippings, books, etc.) (break) Just get the curtain and try for urine. You read.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Aurobind.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He had a big argument with Brahmānanda. Not a big argument, but he was challenging Brahmānanda that "Kṛṣṇa means the divine consciousness. Kṛṣṇa is not a person. He is the... It is divine consciousness."

Prabhupāda: Māyāvāda.

Page Title:Challenge (Conversations 1976 - 1977)
Compiler:Rishab, Mayapur
Created:26 of May, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=172, Let=0
No. of Quotes:172