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Categories (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1968, Montreal, With First Devotees Going to London On Evening of Their Departure:

Janārdana: No. "Nobody is allowed to smoke in here, and they have to take off their shoes, so how can you say it's a restaurant?"

Prabhupāda: Yes. These are technical. (break) ...description, what is called restaurant, that "Wherever foodstuff is prepared and sold, that is called restaurant," then it will come to that category. Whenever they make some law, they give definition of each word, what do you mean by restaurant. So today is another ceremony in the temple?

Janārdana: We couldn't find any barley. What can we use instead?

Prabhupāda: Barley? Why? It is...?

Janārdana: The stores are all closed today, and the boys searched everywhere. They didn't find any barley.

Prabhupāda: Some grains. Any other grain.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Guest (1): Perfectly, you see... What is the category of different perfection?

Prabhupāda: That you have to learn. That you have to learn.

Guest (1): No, no, learn from whom?

Prabhupāda: From the higher authority.

Guest (1): So how we know?

Prabhupāda: That is another thing, who is higher authority. That you have to search out. That you have to search out.

Guest (1): We must understand what is higher person and what is lower and whether Buddha is correct or not.

Prabhupāda: Now, higher authority... Suppose we accept Kṛṣṇa as the higher authority. Our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we accept Kṛṣṇa as the higher authority.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: So these changes, this surrendering, will go on in different categories. Actually all the surrenders-sum total is surrender to māyā. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayi mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So this surrender is going on, going on. It is the māyā's, māyāra vaibhava, paraphernalia of māyā, either you surrender to this or to that. But final surrender-mām eva ye prapadyante, māyām etāṁ taranti te—the final surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Then he is happy. Surrender will stay. His process of surrender is there, but this surrender keeps him quite satisfied, transcendental.

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes. And haven't you come across some hostile attitude to your teaching from orthodox Hindu, from orthodox brāhmaṇas in India itself.

Prabhupāda: But rather, we have subdued them.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Dr. Weir: Well that, with good respect, I think, doesn't really follow because there're some things that don't have opposites or negatives although (in) nature. This is what I say that there are certain categories of things to which if somebody said, "Now what's the opposite of that?" You'd have to say, "There isn't an opposite," because it isn't the sort of thing to have an opposite.

Mensa Member: So you wouldn't accept the prime mover either?

Dr. Weir: Well, it's not an argument, it's a postulate. I don't accept it. I mean, you have to accept it if you're going to... You know the (indistinct), so to speak. You can't have it half way.

Prabhupāda: This word positive and negative. Just like the sun—the backside is the negative and the front side is the positive, light and darkness.

Room Conversation -- November 11, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Viṣṇu-tattva. That is called Viṣṇu-tattva.

Guest: In that expansion can't we take Durgā and Siva, even for...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is śakti-tattva. We have to take expansion according to the tattva. Substance and categories; in which category. The substance is Viṣṇu, and all other tattvas are categories. So devatās, they are śakti-tattva, śakti category, the same category as you are. The same example. Just like here a government officer, he is also Indian gentleman, you are also Indian gentleman, but he has got his power on account of his high qualities. Similarly you can become also Durgā. You can become Indra, Candra, Sūrya. So qualitatively the ant, you are a learned brāhmaṇa, they are all the same category.

Room Conversation -- November 11, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: A paṇḍita knows that they are on the same jīva-tattva categories. Viṣṇu-tattva, jīva-tattva, śakti-tattva, there are many tattvas. Brahman-tattva, paramātmā-tattva, and Bhagavat-tattva, they are the substance, and all other tattvas, they are jīva-tattva, śakti-tattva, like that. So Bhagavān is not jīva-tattva, but others, they are jīva-tattva. Demigods, they are jīva-tattva. Brahma is also jīva-tattva. Devī is śakti-tattva. Jīva is also śakti-tattva. In one sense jīva-tattva is higher than this material śakti-tattva. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:

apareyam itas tu anyāṁ
viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parāḥ
jīva-bhūtaṁ mahā-bāho
yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat
(BG 7.5)
(Hindi)

Guest: For meditation, which form should we...

Prabhupāda: Meditation Viṣṇu, Viṣṇu form.

Room Conversation -- November 11, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa with Rādhārāṇī.

Guest: Then what is Rādhā category?

Prabhupāda: The same śakti. Cit-śakti. Bhagavān ke pleasure potency. Śakti, śakti-tattva. So Śaktimān. Bhagavān is Śaktimān, and that śakti is Rādhārāṇī or Sītā or Lakṣmī. Durgā is also śakti, another feature of Rādhārāṇī.

Guest: Śakti in original is Rādhā?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Parāsya śaktih..., parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). (Hindi) Originally cit-śakti. That cit-śakti is expanding. Just like we are..., rāmādi mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan (Bs. 5.39). Kalā means part and parcel. So we are also part and parcel, but we are very small part and parcel. But rāmādi mūrti, they are bigger part and parcel. Just like if you throw one brick on the floor, so there will be so many small particles, big particles, this particle, that. They are all part and parcel of the brick, but one part very small atomic part, and one big part, this part, this part, then this part, then this part. So all, Kṛṣṇa is the origin, and everyone is part and parcel. Some of them are bigger and some of them are smaller. So Viṣṇu-tattva is almost like Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- November 11, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee: Kṣīrodakaśāyī-Viṣṇu is in which category?

Prabhupāda: He is para-tattva.

Devotee: And, uh...

Prabhupāda: Any viṣṇu-tattva is para-tattva.

Guest: What is definition of (indistinct)?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest: Some people say that jīva is a, you see, surrounded by (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) False. False ego. He is misidentifying with this matter. He is not matter. So this ahaṅkāra, this identification, has to be purified by understanding himself that "I am brahman. I am not matter." That is purification. And as soon as he is purified, brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20). Now jīva-bhūta, but when he becomes brahma-bhūta, then he becomes jolly. Brahma-bhutaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54).

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with the GBC -- May 25, 1972, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Otherwise, it will go to the category of anyābhilāṣitā, material desire-jñāna, karma, yoga, (indistinct). And bhakti is so pure that it has nothing to do with material activities or speculative, or mystic yoga, it has nothing to do. Just like gopīs. Anyā... They had nothing to do with all this nonsense, karma, jñāna, yoga. They are neither yogīs, nor very learned scholar, Vedāntist, nor very good businessmen, economist, simple boys and girls. But their devotion is exalted. Because they did not know anything beyond Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is their love(?). Never mind to know that Kṛṣṇa is God or not, it doesn't matter. Then they don't, they didn't care for God also. Gopīs, when they say Nārāyaṇa, "Oh, He's Nārāyaṇa." (laughter) (indistinct) Nārāyaṇa, they have nothing to do with Him. They are searching after Kṛṣṇa and when Kṛṣṇa presented Himself as Nārāyaṇa, four-handed, they neglected. And before Rādhārāṇī, He could not remain as Nārāyaṇa. Automatically He handed (indistinct). (laughter) Hands are folded. So our idea is Vṛndāvana.
Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:
Prabhupāda: A learned, really learned man, he sees everyone on the same level, because he sees to the spirit and he is (indistinct) that a learned brāhmaṇa, a dog, an elephant, a low-born, everyone is on the same category of spirit soul. That is the vision of a learned scholar. He does not make any discrimination that "Here is a dog" or "Here is a very learned scholar." His vision is the dog is also entangled by this body and a learned scholar is also entangled by this body, but both the dog and the learned scholar, both of them are spirit soul. That is actual vision. The same example, that I am talking with you, not with your dress. I am not very much concerned with your white dress or black dress. I am concerned with you as person. Similarly, we are concerned with the soul, not with the outward body. That is our position. Yes?

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1973, Jakarta:

Devotee (1): Toko bunga means flower store. They usually have the category. (pause)

Prabhupāda: These are wholesale merchants?

Devotee (1): It appears to be. Yes.

Prabhupāda: It is just like Indian market.

Devotee (1): Oh.

Prabhupāda: In India also... Similarly, I've seen Philippines also like this. Japanese almost like this.

Devotee (1): Yes. I was there also.

Prabhupāda: Tokyo.

Devotee (1): In Malaysia also (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: These are all oriental countries. Five thousand years ago this whole planet was India, Bhārata-varṣa. That we get from history, Mahābhārata. This planet name is Bhārata-varṣa.

Conversation with Sridhara Maharaja -- June 27, 1973, Navadvipa:

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: ...thirty-two miles. But Paravyoma, which is to be understood as Vaikuṇṭha, means infinite, many of the paravyomas is accommodated there within that thirty-two miles area. Square miles area, or something like that. That, we must be conversant with that sort of understanding. Any number of length of rope coming, but only two fingers less. Only two fingers less. Another big rope added. Again that two fingers less. This is all categorical principles. We have to be acquainted with. Then we shall go to read Bhāgavatam or to... (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: Drive the flies.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: How it is possible. Eka vigraha tāṅra ananta svarūpa. In one figure, He accommodates numberless of figures. Eka vigraha tāṅra ananta svarūpa. But all these appear to be real and it will be shown to them who has got real śraddhā. Śraddhāmayo 'yaṁ lokaḥ. The world of faith. And that is substantial, not imaginary. What we say to be concrete, that will be reduced to ashes and imaginary. It will evaporate, both the scientists, material scientists, as well as the ṛṣis. But this will evaporate one day with sun, moon, everything. This will evaporate, but that subtle thing stands forever. Śraddhāmayo 'yaṁ lokaḥ.

Room Conversation -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: External. Adhyaki(?). (indistinct) ...one is interested in the body not in the soul. So he is a fool. This, this sculptor, he is simply interested in the outward body, he has no knowledge of the soul. And he wants to become a very famous man, remaining in the category of asses. Because one who is in the bodily concept of life, he is an ass. Go-khara, khara means ass. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). Anyone who is in the bodily concept of life he is no better than animal. The cats and dogs, they are also in the bodily concept of life. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). So he has not advanced beyond these cats and dogs because he is in the same conception, that I am this body. A dog cannot understand that you are not this body. So similarly, if the human being cannot understand that he is not this body, what is the difference between him and the dog? So śāstra says sa eva go-kharaḥ: (SB 10.84.13) he's no better than the cows and the asses. That's all. And actually it is a fact.

Room Conversation -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Just like a śūdra, he cleans in the road for money. They are going as professor but the category is the same. You don't make any distinction between that sweeper and this professor. Or a hog and cat and dog. The hog is also working hard, whole day and night for stool, eating. So this man is also working like that. Beyond that he has no other knowledge.

Revatīnandana: The scientists, they have a term. Psychologists, they call it the idiot savant. The idiot savant means he's an idiot but he has one particular talent and because of that talent he can get along. Just like sometimes you find an idiot, he can look at a column of figures and he can compute the sum in his head very easily but he can't even understand how to tie his shoes. And I think these scholars are like that, they're actually idiots but they have one talent for Sanskrit or for history and because of that they can get along. They can support their body but otherwise they have no qualifications.

Prabhupāda: Śūdra. Unless he gets that post, he'll starve. He has got some talent in some particular subject but he must get some service. By serving others, he'll be able to utilize his talent and get some money, then he'll eat. This is śūdra's business. Dog's business. Just like a dog unless he has got a nice master, his position is very precarious. A street dog. Nobody will care neither it is (indistinct).

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: "If one comes to My place, he never comes back again in the material world." That is intelligence. Why not go back to Kṛṣṇa? But they have no intelligence. They're spoiling their life, simply living like cats and dogs. This is the position. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to save them, that "Don't go again to the cats and dogs category; go back to home, back to Kṛṣṇa." There is... Here is the possibility. Kṛṣṇa says. Why don't you take advantage of this? Kṛṣṇa says: janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ: (BG 4.9) "Anyone who tries to understand Me, Kṛṣṇa, what I am..." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). Simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa, one stops his rebirth in this material form. He goes back to Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are training people that "You have to take another body. So what is the use of taking...? Even if you take the body of demigod, like Brahmā, millions of years age..." That is stated in the Bhag ... ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16).

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So Bhagavad-gītā recommends that the whole society should be divided into four divisions: the brāhmaṇa, or the most intellectual persons, the kṣatriyas, the administrators, the vaiśyas, the mercantile agriculturists, and the śūdras, ordinary men, laborer or worker. Because this material world is conducted by three modes of nature, goodness, passion and ignorance, so according to the quality of the person, he should be listed in different categories. And it is the duty of the state to see that all these categories, divisions, they are working nicely.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: Then, by God's arrangement, by nature's arrangement, all the necessities of the living entities, they will be supplied. They will be free from all anxieties, diseases. This was practically demonstrated during the reign of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. I, I wish to quote some passages from... during the reign of.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Kula-dharma, what is that in the Bhagavad-gītā? Jāti-dharma, kula-dharma. So they produce varṇa-saṅkara. If one does not follow the jāti-dharma, the kula-dharma, then he comes to the category of varṇa-saṅkara. Saṅkaro narakāyaiva. So when... A person born in brāhmaṇa family not acting as a brāhmaṇa, he's varṇa-saṅkara. So when there are number of people from the varṇa-saṅkara class, then the whole society becomes hell, narakāyaiva. Śaṅkaro narakāyaiva. What is that? Read that.

Pradyumna:

kula-kṣaye praṇaśyanti
kula-dharmāḥ sanātanāḥ
dharme naṣṭe kulaṁ kṛtsnam
adharmo 'bhibhavaty uta

"With the destruction of dynasty, the eternal family tradition is vanquished, and thus the rest of the family becomes involved in irreligious practice."

adharmābhibhavāt kṛṣṇa
praduṣyanti kula-striyaḥ
strīṣu duṣṭāsu vārṣṇeya
jāyate varṇa-saṅkaraḥ
(BG 1.40)

Prabhupāda: Everything is, one after another, is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. So those who are responsible for giving up kula-dharma and jāti-dharma, and creating varṇa-saṅkara... Varṇa-saṅkara, just like brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, they are supposed to undergo the purificatory process daśa-vidhā-saṁskāra. So the first saṁskāra is garbhādhāna. So in this Bhāgavata it is said by Nārada that as soon as garbhādhāna-saṁskāra is not taken, immediately the whole family becomes śūdra. So who is observing the garbhādhāna-saṁskāra? Nobody.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Children, small children, they're just like animals. The cats and dogs, just they are playing, they're also playing like that. But he, he does not belong to that category because when he'll get..., he'll get another body in which he'll be intelligent. Another body, he'll be highly educated. Another body, he'll be doctorate. The cats and dogs, they'll have to wait to get that body. So with the body, we are changing our consciousness. So different body, different consciousness. Similarly, why not after death a different body, different consciousness? If you make progress. Yes. This is progressive. So that is confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā: tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13).

dehino 'smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara-prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati
(BG 2.13)

So people cannot understand. That means they are not dhīra, not even, according to Vedic conc..., not even gentlemen. One who cannot understand this simple theory, that, "After this body, as I have changed so many bodies, similarly, I shall change this body also." That's a fact. So dhīras tatra na muhyati. Dhīra, one who has got brain, one who can think, he'll not be puzzled.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Banker: We have had a long history of debate in America over wealth. We have had one group, the fundamentalist Protestants, who argue that... Most of them are poor, and they feel very guilty if they have money. And then you have another group of Protestants, the Gospel of Wealth Protestants, who say that if you are truly holy, then it is better that the money be entrusted to your hands than to a man who is unholy. And then you have still another group that regards money as an end in itself, rather than a means to, committing you to do other things, And this confuses people in America. Your parents will be one thing, you'll be another. In my case, my mother is a Gospel of Poverty person. Blessed are the poor. She thinks you won't get into heaven unless you are poor. And I'm in the Gospel of Wealth category. (laughter) And you just select your own philosophy along the way. Carnegie was in that philosophy. He even wrote a book about it a one hundred years ago. The steel Carnegie, Carnegie steel.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Carnegie's name I know.

Banker: He was one of the number one advocates of this philosophy, that if you are holy, then the money should be in your hands, because you can use it for better purposes.

Prabhupāda: That is a good philosophy.

Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: Kīrtanānanda, his argument was, when he was an atheist, he said that actually the void is truth, and all categories or all varieties are illusion. So he said that we may think that actually spiritual variegatedness is transcendental, but that's actually also our illusion. That was his argument.

Prabhupāda: So what did you reply?

Hṛdayānanda: I replied that if categories are illusion, then his talking is also illusion.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice.

Hṛdayānanda: So I wouldn't let him say anything else.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes, very good reply. "And you are also illusioned. Whatever nonsense you are talking, that is also illusion. Finish. Void, everything." Then what did he reply?

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So these rascals, how do they claim Christian? Eh? What do you think? They're not even category, in the category of dogs, cats, and they're claiming that "We are follower of Lord Jesus Christ."

Sudāmā: But they also argue, Prabhupāda, that that law, "Thou shalt not kill," "I am not killing. The others are killing. But I am not."

Prabhupāda: Just see. Is that very good argument? "I am not killing."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But he's eating.

Prabhupāda: "I am not killing the snake. My stick is killing." Is that very good argument? (laughter) These rascals, all these rascals, they avoid. "I am not killing. I am not responsible. My, my, this stick has killed." Just see. If you go to the court: "Sir, I have not killed, my stick has killed." Just see how rascal they are.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: (break) ...current, popular for the last few score of years of western theology, called systematic theology, in which the various areas of religious or spiritual understanding were covered almost in category. They would take a certain phrase like "creation..."

Prabhupāda: No, no. Some kind of speculation.

Prajāpati: I am not talking about the content which is nonsense, but the form which expounds each area of thought by itself.

Prabhupāda: Jurisdiction.

Prajāpati: Yes.

Karandhara: That's known as speculation.

Prajāpati: But would it be a good proposition to present Kṛṣṇa conscious philosophy in such a systematic way?

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is... He's not a devotee. He's not a, he was not a disciple.

Bali Mardana: But in India there are so many people. They're not disciples; they're not initiated by you. So are they in the same category?

Prabhupāda: No, that case was different.

Bali Mardana: So it is all right.

Prabhupāda: Then the spiritual master has to go every time, to fall down? Because people will touch. That is natural. And he has to jump over the water every time?

Nitāi: In the purport you gave recommendation that generally it is not a good practice to let them, unless they are at least your devotees.

Prabhupāda: Generally, it is not practiced, but if people come, how can you check them? (pause) So we were talking about Darwin's theory, eh? What is that?

Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: I think we are of one of those four categories. Or we are also mūḍha?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no.

Dr. Patel: No. At least, give us some claim. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: You are, you are catur-vidhā.

Guest (3): Arthārthī.

Prabhupāda: Not arthārthī. Jñānī. No, I must give the proper position. Jñānī...

Dr. Patel: You have, you have admitted at the end, before these boys.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Dr. Patel: You have rehabilitated me. (laughter) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...pious, how you would come daily to see the maṅgala-ārati? This is the proof.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Girirāja: Do ghosts refer to categories of ghosts or particular famous? These names...

Prabhupāda: Yes, categories. Yes. There are so many. Just like human beings. Human beings. There are Americans, Indians and Africans and so many, so... One knows that human being, and one knows in descriptive way. So whose knowledge is perfect?

Girirāja: Descriptive.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is descriptive.

Girirāja: (reading) "And similar other evil spirits will cause persons to forget..."

Prabhupāda: Evil spirit everyone believes, every country. In London there are so many ghosts. When I was in John Lennon's house, so they complained, "In this one house, every night a ghost comes." You see? So I advised them "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. It will go away." Then it actually so happened.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Convention means they are partially good for the time being, that's all. They are not eternally... Just like in the Bible it is said, "Thou shalt not kill." (chuckles) But this is not, does not come within the category of eternal religion. People were so corrupted that they were forbidden, "No, don't do this." "Thou shalt not covet," a little moral instruction. That also, they could not follow. There is no religion. And little God consciousness, "There is God, kingdom of God," little idea for the persons who could understand. Otherwise, do you think that if somebody says, "Thou shalt not kill," is that any religious principle? It is ordinary thing. Where is the question of God?

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is due to third-class, fourth-class men. There is no first-class men. The brāhmaṇas are considered to be first-class men, the kṣatriyas are considered to be second-class men, and the vaiśyas, they are third-class men, and rest, all fourth-class and fifth-class. So at the present moment there is third-class, some, and all fourth-class and fifth-class. There is no first-class and second-class men. So unless they are, at least some of them are first-class men, ideal, the human society is doomed. It cannot be peaceful. Full of śūdras, fourth-class men. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for creating some first-class men. This is our ideal. Therefore we forbid them not to take meat, not to have illicit sex, not to..., because these things are accepted by the fourth-class, fifth-class men: unrestricted sex life, meat-eating, intoxication, gambling. They are not to be indulged by the first-class, second-class men, even third-class. It begins from the fourth-class men. Fourth-class, fifth-class. So if one remains to the category of the fourth-class, fifth-class man, how he can be trained up as first-class man? Therefore these things are prohibited because our aim is to create some first-class men.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

C. Hennis: The International Labor Organization has as one of its major aims to promote social justice, and that means that every class of worker, if you like to accept the four categories that you mentioned—the intellectual, the productive, the protective, and the laboring classes-should each have their proper place in society, should each have a full measure of human dignity, and should each have a proper share in the rewards for labor, both clearly material rewards and honors and dignity and leisure and time for, free time for meditation and so on. In the International Labor Organization, we are not like UNESCO devoted to the more philosophical and cultural and educational aspects for the intelligentsia, but I would draw your attention to the fact that the UNESCO is very much concerned with looking after the head part of society.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is my request to you.

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: First of all, the thing is that our principle is vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. Those who are sinful rogues, to kill them. Now, we have to judge whether the fascist, he is sinful or the person attacking the fascist, he is sinful. If both of them are of the same category, then where to use violence or to use nonviolence? Now... Formerly, there was fight between nation to nation and now, we have seen in Italy—I was in Rome—now they are fighting amongst themselves.

Prof. Regamay: Awfully.

Prabhupāda: Amongst themselves. Now they will fight in the family. So people are becoming so degraded. They require all to be killed.

Room Conversation with Reverend Gordon Powell, Head of Scots Church -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Now, the talents are described. Find that Eighteenth Chapter, śamo damas titikṣā. Then...

Reverend Powell: What I'd like (break) I'd like to hear this, but...

Prabhupāda: Talents are divided into three categories: the brāhmaṇa category, and the kṣatriya category, the vaiśya category and the śūdra category. They are described here.

Reverend Powell: And this...

Prabhupāda: What are the qualifications of a brāhmaṇa. Symptoms.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1975, Hawaii:

Siddha-svarūpa: It is very difficult to put everyone who is living outside of the temple in one category. Some people, they are, many people that I know living outside are following strictly the regulative principles, and they are...

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Siddha-svarūpa: They are strictly following regulative principles and chanting their rounds and having morning āratik in their homes. And evening also, they are chanting. So instead of fighting, I think we should only try to encourage everybody to chant and follow the regulative principles.

Prabhupāda: No, that is... Whether you live in temple or outside temple, the rules and regulation and the process must be followed. Then you are successful. It doesn't matter that you have to live in the temple. Gṛhe thāko vane thāko, 'hā gaurāṅga' bo'le ḍāko. Not that everyone has to live in the temple. If he does not agree with other Godbrothers, friends, he can live separately. But he must follow the rules and regulation. That is wanted. But if you live with devotees, it will be automatically done.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- March 13, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So why don't you know yourself? Why you are in darkness? Kṛṣṇa says everything in the Bhagavad-gītā. In the beginning He says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam (BG 2.13). In this body there is the occupier of the body. So if you think yourself that you are this body, that is your wrong. You try to understand that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul, ahaṁ brahmāsmi." That's the fact. So this human life is meant for that purpose. So why should you not do it? Why should you keep yourself in darkness? That is very risky. If I keep myself in the darkness like cats and dogs, that "I am this body," then my life is very risky. By nature's way we are given this opportunity, human form of life. If we do not understand our position, if we remain in the same category, bodily concept of life, then we are missing the chance. After all, you have to change this body. It is not permanent settlement that you shall remain Indian, you shall remain American. No. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13).

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is all right. If you accept progress... Just like you are seeing the sun, I am also seeing the sun, the boy is also seeing the sun, but the understanding of the sun may be different. Everyone is seeing the sun. The objective is the same. But a child's understanding of sun and an elderly man's understanding of sun, a scientist's understanding of sun, or one man who has actually gone to the sun planet, there are different categories. Do you accept or not? The sun is there. God is accepted in every scripture. That is a fact. But in the same way, how far He is understood, that is different. That is different. The same example, that everyone is seeing sun: "Here is sun," there is no doubt. But a child's understanding of sun, his father's understanding of sun, or a scientist's understanding of sun, or a person who has gone to the sun planet, his understanding of sun is different.

Morning Walk -- May 17, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is authoritative statement of Kṛṣṇa. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). So these classes of men do not surrender to Kṛṣṇa. So anyone who has not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he comes within these categories. This is a plain description if we believe in Bhagavad-gītā. All rascals.

Paramahaṁsa: But he would say, "There are many people also like me who... We don't harm anybody. We just live our own life, and..."

Prabhupāda: But you harm yourself. Because you are a rascal you do not know what is your future. You do not harm others, but you are harming yourself. You do not know what you are and how you are harming yourself. You are such a rascal. You pose to be that you do not make any harm to anyone, but you are doing harm to yourself. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). You do not know what is the harm to yourself. You are such a fool. So what is the use of...? Nobody can do any harm to anyone. Everything is going on nature's law. But you are doing yourself harm for your interest. You are such a fool.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That is religion. That should be developed, that "Whether by my profession, by my business, by my talent, by my capacities..." There are different categories. "Whether I have pleased God?" Then it is successful. If you have pleased God by your legal profession—you are in a different dress—it doesn't matter. You are as good as they are whole time only serving God. Because their business is also to please God. Similarly, if you have pleased God, then even by practicing your law, you are as good as the saintly person. That should be the aim, "Whether I have pleased God with my professional duty or occupational duty?" That is the standard. Let people take up this. We don't say that "You change your position. You become a sannyāsī or you give up your profession and become bald-headed." No, we don't say that. (laughs) We are by nature. (laughter) So this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that you remain in your position, but see whether by your discharge of duties you have pleased God.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: As soon as one denies Kṛṣṇa is not God, then he comes within those categories: miscreant, rascal, lowest of the mankind, his knowledge is taken away by māyā, and he's a demon.

Prof. Hopkins: (laughs) That's a strong statement.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is God. If he does not know, then he must be amongst these groups.

Prof. Hopkins: What if someone says, "Śiva is God?"

Prabhupāda: He may say, but śāstra doesn't say.

Prof. Hopkins: So you...

Prabhupāda: Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7), "Nobody or no principle is greater than Me." Then who can be God? God is great. Here the great says, "There is no more greater principle than Me." Then who can be God? People generally know God is great. Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). Not only He says but it is confirmed by great authorities like Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, all the big, big ācāryas, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Vyāsadeva, authorities. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). So how you can deny?

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Very intelligent man. He is intelligent. As soon as one denies the existence of God, immediately he comes within the category of four classes of men: sinful, rascal, lowest of the mankind and knowledge taken away by māyā.

Bahulāśva: The four classes that never surrender unto Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Or do not admit the existence of God.

Paramahaṁsa: To assume that there is no God is basically nonscientific.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: Because they're denying an entire field of study.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore they are rascals.

Morning Walk -- November 19, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: I mean false so far as higher category is concerned, the jīva.

Prabhupāda: Nothing is false, but there are different steps. One step is important than the other, but they are not false. Just like the water, the sand, then earth, then the building. You cannot construct a building here. So these are different stages of reality. Jaya. So how many places you have arranged?

Devotee (2): Program? Well, I have arranged two so far. At least, tentatively, Mr. Patel and Mr. Tarachand Gupta.

Prabhupāda: Tarachand Gupta is also member?

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: There are different groups. I know that. But I do not go in detail to understand them. But our..., we have got a crucial test. That anyone who is..., does not know about Kṛṣṇa, he is put into four different types of categories as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. One category is that he is sinful. Another category is that he is rascal. Another category is that he's lowest of the mankind. Another category is that his so-called knowledge is taken away by illusory energy. So this is our test. That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā, that

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
prapadyante narādhamāḥ
māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
(BG 7.15)

Anyone who is not talking about God, he is either of these group: sinful, rascal, lowest of the mankind, and knowledge taken away by illusion. This is our conclusion, and that's a fact. Because a person who does not know about God, what he is? He is animal. The animal has no knowledge about God. But a human being, if he poses himself to be very learned, then he must have knowledge about God, otherwise what is his knowledge?

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata (BG 13.3). The best thing is to follow the formula given by Kṛṣṇa: na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). As soon as one denies the supremacy of God, he is either sinful, rascal, lowest of the mankind, in these categories. This is the qualification. So we shall take things very simplified. As soon as we see somebody not Kṛṣṇa conscious, immediately we take him in either of these groups. That's all. Then if he objects, then you come to argument. Hmm? What do you think?

Mādhavānanda: In argument, we can never be defeated.

Prabhupāda: So in the school, college classes, there is sometimes argument?

Satsvarūpa: All the time. (laughter) We always save half the time for questions, and immediately, "How do you know that that is true?" All challenging. "Why should I believe?" "How could God present the scriptures?" All faithless.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: No, why deny the body? Just like you are putting some type of dress. So dress is not unimportant. But real importance is you, the person. So where is that education about the real person? They are simply engrossed with the dress. This is going on. Such kind of mentality is there even within the cats and dogs. He's also thinking "I am this body." If a human being does not understand this fact, that he is not this body, he is changing his body, but he is spirit soul, then he is no better than the cats and dogs. We do not want to keep the human society in the category of cats and dogs. We want to raise them to the real understanding of his identification. That is our mission. It is neither Hindu religion or Muslim religion or.... This is science.

Kathy Kerr: I notice all your followers obviously dress similarly and so forth.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: No, you have to go above rajas-tamaḥ. Rajas-tamaḥ means greediness and lust.

tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ
kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye
ceta etair anāviddhaṁ
sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati
(SB 1.2.19)

If you want peace and happiness, then you have to transcend the platform of rajas-tamaḥ and come to the platform of goodness. Then you have to transcend the goodness platform and come to the vasudeva platform, Kṛṣṇa consciousness platform. This is progress. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobha. Rajas tamas means kāma and lobha, endless greediness and endless lusty desires. That will keep us within the category of material existence. Mūḍhā janmani janmani aprāpya mām (BG 16.20). Then we remain mūḍha, life after life. That is not the aim of human life. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). We take once type of body and struggle and again die, and again accept another, another type of body. There are 8,400,000 different types of body. This is going on. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ.

Morning Walk -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Why compromise? (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I think the nondevotees would like to be classified in one of those four categories.

Prabhupāda: But they are. They may not, they may like or not like, it doesn't matter, but they are. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...that even persons who come to Kṛṣṇa with material desires, although...

Prabhupāda: They are pious.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So is it to be understood that a very simple person who has all kinds of material desires, if he approaches God...?

Prabhupāda: Because he has approached God, therefore he's pious. Even though he has got material desires. Akāmaḥ sarva-kāmo vā mokṣa-kāma (SB 2.3.10). One day, he'll become devotee. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. He went to search God for some material benefit, but when he became perfect, he became pure devotee.

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That is possible in human life. But animal also can become God conscious by association.

Kīrtanānanda: Sometimes I've heard you say, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that love only exists between similar categories.

Prabhupāda: Similar categories, the love is very conducive. Otherwise, love is possible with any living entity. The central object of love is Kṛṣṇa. That is Vṛndāvana. The animals love Kṛṣṇa, the human beings love Kṛṣṇa, the trees love Kṛṣṇa, the water love Kṛṣṇa, everyone loves Kṛṣṇa-central point. That is the perfection of love. The Deity is kept in the same house?

Kīrtanānanda: But it is changed, the house is changed since you were there.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Changed means?

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So innocent suffers. Intelligent never suffers. Only the rascals, innocent, they suffer. Innocent means rascal also. He does not know what is, what to do. The rascal is also innocent. A child is innocent, but he's a rascal. It does not mean because he's innocent, he's not rascal. Rascal means he's innocent also. The child does not know that, "If I touch fire it will burn." Therefore he's a rascal. But because he is child, innocent, he'll not be excused. The rascal and innocent on the same category. Innocence of law is not, no excuse. If you go to the court, if you say, "Sir I did not know there is law like this," that does not mean... You must suffer. Why Kṛṣṇa comes? He gives advice that "You do this. Don't remain innocent and rascal. Then you'll be happy." Why should you stick to the rascaldom? He's personally advising. He says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Why you are sticking to Hinduism and Muslimism and Christianism? Why? That is rascaldom.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, no. You can very minutely distinguish, this is the general division. Then there is minute division. That is numbering about 8,400,000.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Under that category, that minor divisions, now let's take the animals. Even in the animal kingdom, there are some animals which are influenced...

Prabhupāda: From the animals down, it is all ignorance.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Animals down, all ignorance.

Rūpānuga: What about like the cow, little goodness in it, mixed?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rūpānuga: And the lion, little passion?

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, everywhere there is mixture. Otherwise, how it comes to 8,000,000? There is mixture. But this is the general division. Now you cannot make how much passion, how much goodness is there. That you can understand from the behavior. But this is general division. We can speak of general division. The minute division is made by nature. That nature's study, one who can study nature, then he can do that.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Just like eating. You are eating meat, you can give it up. If you think it is not good, you can give it up. What is the wrong there?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you think giving examples, or like making a division of these animals under category of these three modes is not proper? After all, all the modes are mixed. Now can we say that a cow is, although there are other modes, but predominantly the mode of goodness?

Prabhupāda: Predominantly ignorance. Cow, just like cows, or, yes...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Cows, then tigers, lions we can give predominantly passion. Now coming to either camels or pigs we can call ignorance.

Prabhupāda: So many, very subtle, subtle mixture. That subtleness of mixture is impossible for you to analyze.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: I shall speak in English so that others.... Kibā vipra, whether one is a brāhmaṇa, kibā śūdra, or whether he is a śūdra, nyāsī kene naya, or whether he is a sannyāsī. That means whether he is a gṛhastha or brāhmaṇa, or.... There are eight varṇāśrama—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, whatever he may be, out of these eight categories.

kibā vipra kibā śūdra nyāsī kene naya
Prabhupāda: yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā, sei 'guru' haya
(CC Madhya 8.128)

Anyone who understands Kṛṣṇa perfectly, he is guru. Just like Arjuna is our guru, but he's a gṛhastha, he's a soldier, he's a kṣatriya. He's neither brāhmaṇa nor sannyāsī nor Vedantist, nothing of the sort. But he knows Kṛṣṇa. Therefore he is guru. So gṛhastha (Hindi). Śravaṇam, this is the first step of bhakti. Hear about Kṛṣṇa from the right source. Otherwise you will be misguided. Therefore Kṛṣṇa recommends, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). You have to go to a person where you can surrender.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, it is the sum total of the unmanifested material elements. Now from pradhāna actually mahat-tattva is manifested. In mahat-tattva there is a basic difference that there is some, already some manifestations in mahat-tattva.

Rūpānuga: Categories.

Prabhupāda: Total material elements, mahat-tattva.

Rūpānuga: Is that differentiated?

Prabhupāda: Mahat-tattva is differentiated.

Rūpānuga: Different categories?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The time element is there in mahat-tattva, so it is already twenty-five elements there including time. At this stage also, the impregnation of the Lord's internal potency means that the jīvas are already impregnated here from pradhāna. So here the living entities are in pure goodness.

Prabhupāda: The living entities are always in pure goodness. This material covering is separated. The living entities can be freed from material covering at any moment. Just like water and oil, it is always separated, it does not mix. The Vedic mantra also says asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. Actually, it is not mixed, but it is covered. That covering can be taken away at any moment simply by Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So we must prepare ourselves for that purpose. Then next life we can go wherever we like. But anywhere within this material world, there are four principles, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. There is birth, there is death, there is old age and disease. But if you go to the spiritual kingdom, there is no more such things, no birth, no death, no disease, no old age. Now we can make our selection. And if we do not make our selection, if we live like cats and dogs, without any responsibility, then again we become in the category of cats and dogs. Mūḍha, janmani janmani (BG 16.20), life after life, they remain like animals, without any knowledge.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: If one does not understand this simple thing, that he is not body, then he is no better than animal. That is the first understanding of spiritual platform. If he thinks that he is body, then he is in the same category as the animals.

Rāmeśvara: Her question is... Suppose someone has some faith in life after death, and he also may be an intelligent man by material standards. Why isn't he automatically...?

Prabhupāda: No, material standard is no intelligence. Material standard is that "I am this body. I am American. I an Indian. I am fox. I am dog. I am man." This is material understanding. Spiritual understanding is beyond that, that "I am not this body." And when he tries to understand that spiritual identification, then he is intelligent. Otherwise he is not intelligent.

Room Conversation -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: No, no, Govardhana... Every one is viṣṇu-tattva. Viṣṇu-tattva, jīva-tattva, śakti-tattva, like that. So all of them on the Viṣṇu category. That's all. Viṣṇu-tayā vibhāti. Viṣṇu-tayā vibhāti. Dīpārcir eva hi daśāntaram abhyupetya dīpāyate viṣṇu-tayā vibhāti (Bs. 5.46). These things are there. So Godhead is viṣṇu-tattva. So sometimes Viṣṇu, sometimes Nārāyaṇa, sometimes Govinda, sometimes Kṛṣṇa, like that.

Indian man: That's very nice, because one can understand very well. Because I always took Mahā-Viṣṇu as the expansion of Kṛṣṇa, but still, when I went to Govindāṣṭakam and then also like Brahma-saṁhitā says, yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā... (Bs. 5.48).

Prabhupāda: Loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: In this way. Elderly student... That is the way of Indian teaching, that there is one teacher, and how he's managing hundreds? That means there are groups. One who is elderly student, he's taking some beginners: "Write a or A like this." That he can teach. What he has learned, he can teach. Similarly, next group, next group. So in this way, one teacher can manage hundreds of students of different categories. This is organization. Not that everything I have to do. I cannot teach anybody to do it. That is not intelligence. Intelligence is that employ others to help you. That is intelligence. Not that "Oh, I was busy, I could not do it." Why? What about your assistant? Train assistant so that in your absence things can be done. So the elderly students, they could be... Just Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to do that. When He was sixteen years old he could argue with Keśava Kāśmīrī, because He was practiced. In this way, stage after stage, everyone should be expert. Everyone should be teacher and student.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: These are the classes. One who does not take the advantage of Kṛṣṇa's instruction, he's immediately grouped in these category: duṣkṛtinaḥ, mūḍhāḥ, narādhamaḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā, āsuraṁ bhāvam. Kṛṣṇa says personally. One who does not take to Kṛṣṇa's instruction, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66), then how he's grouped? He's grouped:

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
prapadyante narādhamāḥ
māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
(BG 7.15)

He is grouped. Duṣkṛtinaḥ means he has got intelligence, kṛti. Kṛti means one who has got intelligence, merit. But his merit is being utilized for sinful activities, duṣkṛtinaḥ. If merit is used for good work, that is called sukṛtina. And if the merit is used for manufacturing something harmful to the human society, then it is duṣkṛtina. Merit is there. A thief, rascal and cheater, he has got good merit, but he's using it for bad purpose. They are duṣkṛtina. Why he has become so? Mūḍhāḥ. Because he does not know his interest, ass. The example is ass, mūḍhāḥ.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: We have got one little test. You can also use that. Kṛṣṇa says,

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
prapadyante narādhamāḥ
māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
(BG 7.15)

So you make one test, whether he has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. If he has not done, then he is in these four categories. What are they? Duṣkṛtina, great sinful; mūḍha, rascal; narādhama, lowest of the mankind. And if you say, "Oh, these are so big, big learned scholar," now māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. Why? Āsuraṁ bhāvam, asura. Asura's business is to deny Kṛṣṇa and to kill Kṛṣṇa. So all these people, they are reading Bhagavad-gītā, and they are trying to kill Kṛṣṇa. (devotees chanting) Is it not a fact? All these big big leaders, they'll speak on Bhagavad-gītā, and they will never say that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You surrender to Him."

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: More or less everyone of us, we are fool, mūḍha. Kṛṣṇa has stated mūḍha, mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). He has chastised like anything. Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān (BG 16.19). So anyone who's not taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is within these categories: duṣkṛtina, narādhama, mūḍha, māyayāpahṛta-jñāna, āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritaḥ. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness is Indian movement, but na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. They are not taking seriously. That is the position. It is our movement. Kṛṣṇa came in India and because India is so glorified place, puṇya-bhūmi, even the demigods they desire. Not India, this planet, Bhāratavarṣa. Formerly, the whole Bhāratavarṣa means whole planet. Anyway, for the time it is now minimized. So it is not ordinary land. So our men, they are not interested in such great movement. How much regrettable it is. And who are they? Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ duṣkṛtino narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15).

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Is it possible to stop it? Or young men, if he says "No, no, I'm not going to..." but everyone wants that. Young man does not want to become old man, but by nature's law he has to become.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
kartāham iti manyate
(BG 3.27)

So the idea is that after losing our own culture, we have become set of fools. This is the real conclusion. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). We have become so lowest of mankind and mūḍha and full of sinful activities that we cannot understand what Kṛṣṇa says. This is real position. I am not speaking—Kṛṣṇa says. This is the sign. If one does not hear Kṛṣṇa, then he must be grouped in these categories: duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhama, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. What is the value of their so-called education if they cannot understand the simple truth, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13)? What is the value of this education?

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Still, you can go to different groups of saintly person. Different groups means brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti (SB 1.2.11). There are some yogis, some jñānīs, some bhaktas. They are of the same category, little difference. Otherwise...

Dr. Patel: By different ways they have reached the same goal.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Brahmeti paramātmeti. Some of them are brahma-parāyana; some of them paramātma-parāyana; some of them are bhakta. It doesn't matter. But they're all spiritual. They have no interest in this material world. Tattva-vit. Tattva-vit. They know what is truth. They say that Kumbha Mela is... That spot is very sacred because Mohinī-mūrti brought the nectar there.

Dr. Patel: But in India, Kumbha Mela...

Prabhupāda: Kumbha, that kumbha, means the waterpot.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: And a prostitute. (laughs) He classified them in one category.

Gargamuni: Especially these newspapers. When you give an interview, they always print something else.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: They never print exactly what one says.

Prabhupāda: They're not honest.

Gargamuni: No.

Rāmeśvara: This was printed in the Los Angeles Times on January 21. No, January 2nd.

Prabhupāda: I think this opinion printed you send to all newspapers editors.

Rāmeśvara: That book that he printed?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Where is that miśri? No, we have to fight. Devise means, ways, how to fight. That's all. But try to prove that they have no brain. Actually that is the fact. Nobody has brain, especially in this age. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). Mūḍha means one who has no brain. Mūḍha, this word, applies to the ass, because ass has no brain. He works so hard for little grass, which is available everywhere. But still, he thinks that "This washerman is giving me grass." Therefore mūḍha. He'll stand at the door of the washerman whole day, eating little grass, which he can get anywhere. So that is mūḍha. Mūḍhaḥ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Bas. And anyone who is a mūḍha, he does not know Kṛṣṇa. So so long we do not know Kṛṣṇa, we shall remain mūḍha-ass. That's the fact. The whole system is to understand Kṛṣṇa. But one does not know Kṛṣṇa, so he remains mūḍha, and therefore all his attempt is baffled. (Bengali) (break) ...speaking that "Everyone who is not a kṛṣṇa-bhakta, he's a gādhā." Do you believe in this or not, first of all? Unless you are firmly convinced, you cannot say strongly. (Bengali) Kṛṣṇa-bhakta naya ei sei gādhā. (Bengali) Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). (Bengali) (break)...must be intelligent. Otherwise how can I say that you are rascal if I am in the same category? So that I was explaining in the morning. Where is your brain? And mūḍha is one who has no brain. (break) Wherefrom consciousness comes? Where is consciousness?

Room Conversation -- February 27, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Oh. Then his certificate should be sent at least.

Brahmānanda: You said you wanted to give certain titles for different categories? So should we give you a list of...

Prabhupāda: No, you keep this place. We shall write in hand.

Hari-śauri: No title. Just the certificate.

Prabhupāda: Better you can print in script.

Brahmānanda: Yes. We have... Muralīdhara is here.

Prabhupāda: And good, good paper. Then in script we shall write the title.

Brahmānanda: So "This is to..." The title will be... He has here, "devotional service in the field of..." Let's say the field is pūjārī worship.

Prabhupāda: So keep that blank.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Seems too young also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Young and... We're pretty lucky, as far as I can see, with that Damodar Prasad Shastri. He seems to be in his own category from all the kavirājas I've ever seen. He really seems different than that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He's also Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He really is a little Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That... The kavirāja that we brought from Calcutta. He's... The thing I liked about him also is I felt that he was the kind of person who I... Somehow I felt that in your childhood or something, that your family would have engaged some such a Marwari... You always said how the Mulliks' house was located amongst many Marwari community people. I was thinking somehow it seemed suitable that this is... Of course we don't designate like that, but somehow it seems suitable that... You know. Marwaris are... They occupy a high place in the community.

Page Title:Categories (Conversations)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:04 of Aug, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=62, Let=0
No. of Quotes:62