Prabhupāda: Everyone should be satisfied by his occupation. But how one gets successful by his occupation? He hasn't got to change the occupation. In the material world one has to change his occupation for certain kind of success. Suppose if you are a potter. Now, if you want to become engineer, so you have to change your occupation as potter. But in the spiritual world you haven't got to change your position, and still, you get success, spiritual life. That is the beauty. You haven't got to change. If somebody says that "Sir, I am potter. How can I be Kṛṣṇa conscious? It requires that one should be a brāhmaṇa, one should be very learned man, Vedānta philosophy, and one must have the sacred thread, and this and that. So I am a potter. I am a cobbler. I am a washerman." No. Kṛṣṇa says, "No." You do not require to change. Caitanya Mahaprabhu also says, "You do not require to change." Kṛṣṇa says that svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya. You just try to worship the Supreme Lord by the result of your occupation. Because Kṛṣṇa requires everything. So if you are a potter, you supply pots. If you are florist, you supply flower. If you are carpenter, you work for temple. If you are washerman, then wash clothing of the temple. Temple is the center, Kṛṣṇa. And everyone gets chance to offer his service. Therefore temple worship is very nice. So this temple should be organized in such a way that we don't require any money. You give your service. That's all. You be engaged in your service. Don't change your service. But you try to serve the-temple means the Supreme Lord—by your occupational duty.
Carpenter (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: The material ingredients are supplied by God. The intelligence is also given by God. So by God-given intelligence, by God-given ingredients, you are preparing something, and you are claiming that "It is mine." Why? Suppose if I give somebody intelligence, "You make this table like this," I give ingredients, I give him money, then after the table is manufactured, if the carpenter says, "It is mine," is that proper ? I have given you money, I have given you the wood, I have given you the intelligence, I have maintained you. How it belongs to you? So this is going on. Everything God's, and we are claiming "Mine." Ahaṁ mameti, janasya moho 'yam (SB 5.5.8). This is called illusion. I am not the proprietor, but I am thinking I am... This is called illusion. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to remove this illusion, to accept the real fact.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Fire, mind, intelligence, ego. These eight elements. Kṛṣṇa says that "They are my energies." The things which are made by Kṛṣṇa's energy, how you can claim your property? Suppose a carpenter comes, you give him money to prepare some chair. The money is your energy. Now when the chair is prepared, he cannot claim that "I have prepared this chair. It is my property." No. It has been made with my energy; therefore it is my property. So if you make analysis of this whole cosmic situation you will find that everything is made out of the energy of God. Then how you can claim that "I am proprietor"? This is false. This is called māyā.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Dr. Patel: I am reading the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Therein so many princes turned into brāhmaṇas, and so many brāhmaṇas turned into daityas.
Prabhupāda: But that is...
Dr. Patel: It was by action.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Guṇa, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. Not by birth. Guṇa-karma. Just like you are kṣatriya, but because you have acquired the qualification of medical man and you are working as a medical man, therefore you are medical man. Nobody asked you, "You are a kṣatriya or a brāhmaṇa." You are a medical man.
Dr. Patel: Medical... You know, I think medical work is it brahminical or śūdric also?
Prabhupāda: That we shall consider later on.
Dr. Patel: (laughs) 'Cause I'll not say now so that I will drive out my doubt about me.
Prabhupāda: It is half-brāhmaṇa.
Dr. Patel: No, that is all right. At least, little brāhmaṇa is good.
Guest (2): It is vaidyic. All vaidyas are brāhmaṇas.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, vaidyas means father brāhmaṇa, mother śūdra. That is vaidya.
Dr. Patel: They are sūtas.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Sūtas are brāhmaṇa mother and father, father kṣatriya. These sūt... No? Those brāhmaṇas were sūtas.
Prabhupāda: No. Sūtas means carpenter. Śūdra.
Prabhupāda: You have not digested your food. (break) Any carpenter working in... (break) The government was pleased to reply that they're maintaining themselves by selling literature. Similarly, if it comes to the notice of the government that they're maintaining ourselves by production of food, they'll like very much. (break) In your temple.
Paramahaṁsa: You have quoted a great English Poet who says that "Man has created the city..."
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.
Paramahaṁsa: "...and God has created the country."
Prabhupāda: This is the statement of Mr. Cowper. Man has created nothing. Suppose this building, man has created. But wherefrom the ingredient comes. Has man created? This stone, man has created? Eh? What do you think? Is this stone, creation of man?
Paramahaṁsa: No.
Prabhupāda: Then what... You have done the work of a laborer. That's all. You have taken ingredients from God and worked hard and transformed into a step. That's all. Your creation means just like carpenter creates a furniture. That's all. That is his creation. Then that is... The economic law says that man cannot create anything. He can simply transform. These trees, has man created these trees? Why do they claim man has created everything?
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Hṛdayānanda: Can someone achieve self-realization without a guru or does he need a guru?
Prabhupāda: How do you think like that? Is there anything within this you world which can be learned without guru? Even if you become an ordinary carpenter, you have to learn from an expert carpenter. So how you can imagine to learn the topmost subject matter without guru? This is... The Vedic injunction is, therefore, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12), samit-pāṇiḥ, like that. We must have a bona fide guru to train us in the understanding of spiritual matter. Guru means who knows the thing, who can teach you. That is guru, not a humbug guru, but guru means one who knows. Tattva-darśinaḥ, one who has seen the truth, he can become guru. Find this verse,
- tad viddhi praṇipātena
- paripraśnena sevayā
- upadekṣyanti tad-jñānaṁ
- jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
- (BG 4.34)
Prabhupāda: Everything has got cause. The ultimate cause is Kṛṣṇa. (break) The cause is petrol, oil, but what is the cause of this petrol, they do not know.
Hṛdayānanda: That would be real science to know the cause of the petrol.
Prabhupāda: Yes. How petrol is produced in so large quantity? Who has made this arrangement? How it is producing? They are not interested.
Hṛdayānanda: So as you were saying then, just to manipulate the petrol in different ways, that's like the art, as you've been saying.
Prabhupāda: That's all. You cannot produce petrol. Just like gold is already there, manufactured by God. You can make only different types of ornaments, that's all. Everything. This metal covering of this body, you have not produced this metal. They are like the carpenter. The carpenter has not produced the wood nor the metal instrument nor himself, but he is working. This body is also not produced by him. That is also made by Kṛṣṇa. His intelligence is also made by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is giving the body. Kṛṣṇa is giving the intelligence. Kṛṣṇa is giving the wood. Kṛṣṇa is giving the instrument. Now, if you produce some furniture, to whom it will belong? To the carpenter or to the supplier of everything? Who will enjoy it? Who will enjoy it? If the carpenter claims that "I have done it," that is foolishness. You have done it as a worker, and you have been supplied with everything, your intelligence, your food, your instrument, your ingredient. Therefore the supplier should be the proprietor, not the carpenter. That is real philosophy.
Hṛdayānanda: That's practically the law everywhere.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere.
Hṛdayānanda: Carpenter comes and he pays him.
Prabhupāda: And he is given payment. He is given food, shelter, everything, to work for Kṛṣṇa. Now Kṛṣṇa, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasām (BG 5.29). Whatever activities are going on there, the enjoyer is Kṛṣṇa, nobody else.
Prabhupāda: They are mūḍhas, means rascals, and they're exposing more and more that yes, they are mūḍhas. And another set of rascals, what is called, recognizing that "Yes, take this degree." Avyāpare suvyāparaṁ yo naraḥ kartum icchati sa mūḍhaḥ hanyate 'khilotpad iva vānaraḥ.(?) Vānara means monkey. Monkey... One monkey... there was a woodcutter. What is called, woodcutter?
Paramahaṁsa: Carpenter.
Devotee: Lumberjack.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Lumber...?
Sruta-kirti: Lumberjack.
Pañcadraviḍa: Cuts trees?
Prabhupāda: No, no. Formerly, with saw, they used to make planks from big, big... What is that?
Madhudviṣa: Sawmill?
Sruta-kirti: Carpenter.
Prabhupāda: Not... Sawmill is now. Formerly they were doing it-hand.
Pañcadraviḍa: Carpenter.
Prabhupāda: Not carpenter. All right, the man who used to bifurcate the big, big planks, and after finishing the business, he would put one, what is called, plug so that it may not again come...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Join.
Prabhupāda: Jam. Yes. So one monkey came. They monkey came. He, he began to, as his business, (makes sound "kut, kut, kut," and the plug was taken away and his half part of the body—"Jam." And the... (Makes sound, monkey crying) "tahn, tahn, tahn, tahn." Who is coming to help him? He died. So this is not his business. He's a monkey. And he wanted to do that business. Similarly, these things are directly in the hands of God, and these monkeys are coming to get out the plug. So they'll die simply, that's all, like the monkey. They'll never be able to successfully produce soul and these things.
Prabhupāda: ...ratha?
Devotee: We can build it. We have few carpenters here, four or five carpenters. We can build it. (break)
Prabhupāda: If you can build it, do it. I may be here or may not be here, but you observe the Ratha-yatra. (break) ...trying to make Ratha-yatra in Kurukṣetra. That is the origin of Ratha-yatra.
Jayatīrtha: The 400,000 different species of human life? There's one place in which you mention that different persons like carpenter or different tradesmen are different species. Is that...?
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Jayatīrtha: What's the...
Prabhupāda: That is division. Varṇa, that is called varṇa.
Jayatīrtha: So that has nothing to do with species. Species is like Negro or...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Education is required to help culture. Not that you take degrees from the university and remain a dog. That is not education. Here is education, as Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says:
- mātṛvat para-dāreṣu
- para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat
- ātmāvat sarva-bhūteṣu
- yaḥ paśyati sa paṇḍitaḥ
Here is a description of paṇḍita: first of all learn how to see other woman as your mother. There the culture begins. And they are, from the very beginning of the school college life, they are learning how to entice one girl. This is education.
Dr. Patel: They are following the so-called advanced countries.
Prabhupāda: Advanced means Freud's philosophy.
Dr. Patel: So-called advancement.
Prabhupāda: Sex philosophy. This is their education. So how you can expect gentlemen? It is not possible. From the very beginning there is no culture, animal culture. Just like dogs, as soon as he finds another female dog, he wants to have sex. This is education.
Dr. Patel: One friend of mine he told me that this culture is vultures' culture. They eat anything and everything.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not vultures. It is called hog civilization. The hog, they eat anything and they have sex with anyone.
Dr. Patel: Yes, yes. These animals they don't distinguish between their own bodily relatives.
Prabhupāda: Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭan kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This is instruction. Where is culture? Culture is lost. So therefore there is no value of education. And besides that, education means spiritual education. Brahma-vidyā. This education how to make aeroplane or a nice bridge or a machine, this is called kalā-vidyā. This is not vidyā.
Dr. Patel: Para and apara vidyā.
Prabhupāda: No, kalā.... Kalā means artistic. Suppose a carpenter, he knows how to make a very nice, good furniture, does it mean that he is educated? He knows the art, some artistic way, that's all; but he is not educated. But nowadays it is going on that if you know some art, technology, then you are educated. This is not education. Education means culture.
Dr. Patel: Yes. And culture means...
Prabhupāda: Culture means human life. Otherwise dog's life. There is.... Adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam. Everything is described. Amānitvam: first of all you have to learn how to become humble. And here all the people, they are educated how to become proud.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Mike Barron: What is the biggest obstacle for people to overcome?
Prabhupāda: Their dullness. They are not being educated, but they are putting into the darkness of ignorance more and more. That is going on in the name of education.
Mike Barron: But some people are confused by the number of false gurus.
Prabhupāda: So why you bring guru? You try to understand yourself. If you are fool, then what guru will do?
Mike Barron: But there are people...
Prabhupāda: You should be intelligent. You should know that what is the subject matter of knowledge. Why do you accept so many fools and rascals as guru? First of all you know what is the subject matter of knowledge. Just like if you want to become a carpenter, you should go to an expert carpenter. If you want to be a medical man, here, if you want to become medical man, you must approach the medical college. So first of all, what do you want? You do not know what you want. Therefore you get so many cheaters. You do not know what you want.
Prabhupāda: This barn, Vṛndāvana. What is this building?
Kīrtanānanda: They are constructing a... I have a big carpenter shop, a construction shop, a printing shop. And upstairs there will be a big hall for Janmāṣṭamī that holds seven, eight hundred people. There is another, that's our guesthouse building we're building there. You can see the top two floors, with the arches.
Prabhupāda: What is this? Another barn?
Kīrtanānanda: This is an oxbarn here.
Prabhupāda: No, this.
Kīrtanānanda: That tank? That tank we are making for grain storage.
Prabhupāda: Oh, much improvement.
Prabhupāda: So this first, second, third, the intellectual class, the administrative class, and the productive class, these three classes must be there in the society. And those who cannot be grouped either of these three classes, they should generally help as workers. They are called śūdras. So the workers means... Suppose you require a sitting place: the carpenter is there. Suppose you require a knife: so the blacksmith is there. You require clothing: the weaver is there. In this way, four classes of men. First class, second class, third class, or the intellectuals, the administrators, the producers and the general workers. This is Vedic system of division. Brāhmaṇa... This is for our living condition, and then human life especially meant for spiritual realization, self-realization. For that purpose, again, another four divisions.
Guest (3): Your Grace, may I ask a question? Before I asked about a man not knowing what his duty was, and you spoke of the highest duty of giving up all to Kṛṣṇa and becoming detached from the fruits of your action. But suppose the question is What shall I become—a shopkeeper, a teacher, a carpenter?
Prabhupāda: In any condition, you can surrender yourself to Kṛṣṇa. Svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya.
Guest (3): Yes, but it sounds like it doesn't matter what I do as long as I dedicate my action to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Therefore you require spiritual master to guide you.
Guest (3): So I cannot know myself.
Prabhupāda: That is not possible.
Guest (3): And intuition does not help.
Prabhupāda: Intuition is wrong. It is a practice. A thief thinks "I should steal." His intuition says. He's practiced to steal and intuition says "You steal." That is not guide. Intuition means that things which you are practiced, that's all. You are accustomed, that's all.
Guest (3): How does a man find out what his duty is?
Prabhupāda: Duty is... The śāstra is there. Bhagavad-gītā is there. The Bible is there. So follow.
Guest (3): Whether a man should be a shopkeeper or a teacher or a carpenter, the Bible won't tell me that, and the Bhagavad-gītā won't tell me that.
Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā is there, the four divisions of human society, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. So each one's duty is prescribed. Brāhmaṇa's duty, kṣatriya's duty, vaiśya's duty, śūdra's duty, brahmacārī's duty, everything is there.
Guest (3): But then you said before that if I think I'm brahmacārī, then I should be a brahmacārī. If I become a śūdra, I act as a śūdra.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you act as a brahmacārī, do your brahmacārī work, you'll be successful.
Guest (3): But how do I know that I am thinking properly?
Prabhupāda: Therefore I say it is mentioned in the śāstra, brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). If you want to be a lawyer, you must know the law. Without knowing the law, how you become a lawyer? Without knowing the engineering art, how you become engineer? So either you become a brahmacārī, gṛhastha or vānaprastha, sannyāsī, or anything, you must know what you are meant for. Without knowing, how you can become brahmacārī?
Guest (3): I must know what I am meant for.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (3): But that's what my question is, how does one know.
Prabhupāda: Then you have to go to the... Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Just like we were discussing Sanātana Gosvāmī, he has gone to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he said, "Sir, You have brought me from the entanglement of family life. Now tell me what is my duty." So that discussion is going on. So you should approach guru and take instruction from him what is, how to act. If you want to act as a brahmacārī, he'll give you direction, "You do this." If you want to act as a gṛhastha, he'll give you direction, "You do like this." That is wanted. The guru, the parents, the government, they should guide.
Guest (3): But it says that if I follow another person's occupation, even if I do it better than my own occupation, that is not as good as following what I ought to be doing.
Prabhupāda: If you are unfit for that occupation, why should you imitate, waste your time? If you are, you are fit for becoming a carpenter, why should you imitate a brāhmaṇa? Better be expert carpenter and serve Kṛṣṇa with the result of carpentry work. Then there is perfection. Saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam.
- ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā
- varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ
- svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya
- saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam
- (SB 1.2.13)
So suppose you are a carpenter. You earn something. So out of that your income, you offer something to Kṛṣṇa. If, even you are poor man, you can bring some fruit or flower to Kṛṣṇa. "Kṛṣṇa, I am poor man, I can't give You anything more. But I have secured this fruit and flower. Kindly accept it." Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes." Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati tad aham aśnāmi (BG 9.26). So where is the difficulty? Svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya. You remain a carpenter, but you worship Kṛṣṇa. That is not a very difficult job, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:
- śreyān sva-dharmo viguṇaḥ
- para-dharmāt svanuṣṭhitāt
- svabhāva-niyataṁ karma
- kurvan nāpnoti kilbiṣam
- (BG 18.47)
"It is better to engage in one's own occupation, even though one may perform it imperfectly."
Prabhupāda: No, another, sa-doṣam api na tyajet (BG 18.48).
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sa-doṣam api na tyajet.
Prabhupāda: Hm, what is that verse?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Saha-jaṁ karma kaunteya.
Prabhupāda: Ah, saha-jaṁ karma kaunteya. You are carpenter, do it. Don't try to become a goldsmith, because you cannot do that. Remain a carpenter.
Rāmeśvara: I observed that these devotees at New York, they've practically given up sleeping this past week to prepare everything for your arrival.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) They are so kind to me.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they worked very hard.
Rāmeśvara: It reminded me that time when the Press devotees stayed up all the time to get those Caitanya-caritāmṛta volumes. The same spirit. They just stopped eating and sleeping.
Prabhupāda: That is love. These things can be done only out of love.
Rāmeśvara: There were some hired carpenters and painters, and their last day of working was, I think, Wednesday. So yesterday and this morning they came in voluntarily, they stayed up the whole night without sleep, and they continued working.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Eight o'clock yesterday, and they just finished this morning. Straight through the night.
Prabhupāda: They are professional?
Rāmeśvara: :Professional, but by the association of the devotees...
Prabhupāda: They become...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One of them now says that he wants to rent a room for the whole year in our building.
Rāmeśvara: He loves the prasādam.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says he likes the prasādam.
Prabhupāda: Why don't you stay here? No rent, you stay here. You are devotee. Stay here.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's a celibate right now. He's not married, bachelor.
Prabhupāda: Take prasādam, stay here.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what he wants, and let him give part of his income.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: One thing, that we have got this śālagrāma-śilā. So if you like to personally worship, we can keep it. Otherwise I am sending to Bombay. Do you like to worship?
Pradyumna: We can take with us? Yes.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That is good to take with you.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Pradyumna: We can make small thing like you used to have, small Deities? We can do that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Make a small box.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Here there are carpenters. We can get it made before you leave.
Prabhupāda: So we can carry and every morning just put in a siṁhāsana and tulasī and water and flower and little fruit. That's all. He has got tendency to worship.
Gargamuni: He is brāhmaṇa. Paṇḍita.
Prabhupāda: Paṇḍitjī.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He and Nitāi are both considered the paṇḍitjīs.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they are paṇḍita.
Prabhupāda: My granddaughter, she came to see me in Māyāpura. So I was remembering just the other day she was child and walking, catching my hand. Now she is mother of two children. (Someone comes by) Who is he?
Hari-śauri: He's the carpenter.
Caraṇāravindam: Very good fellow.
Prabhupāda: Carpenter. So it is nice. When there is rain I can lie down here. When it is raining, to lie down in a cottage like this is very pleasing. At least in this country. Tuk-tuk-tuk-tuk-raining, not very forcibly.
Caraṇāravindam: A little shower.
Prabhupāda: Shower, yes. Oh, it is very pleasing. So this place is very nice.
Caraṇāravindam: You like this...
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. You have got idea. You have all done nice. Nobody (laughs) got this idea. You have done nice.
Prabhupāda: And these village men or any laborer, as you proposed, if they want, they can stay. We shall give him food, shelter, as well as some remuneration.
Mahāṁśa: Yes. Like that many people...
Tejas: We bring a few. I can talk to them Telegu, and I explain and see who likes. We can give them some...
Prabhupāda: There is a... He will be in charge of growing this, and this way do everything. And you go to Bhogilal or call. Bring him here and I'll transfer there. I have no objection. Immediately. There is no need of painting.
Mahāṁśa: No need of painting.
Prabhupāda: No. Why there is use? We can manage there. Bhogilal may come, and he may be given here or wherever possible.
Mahāṁśa: I'll ask the carpenter to try and fix those doors by this evening in Bhogilal Patel's room. The inside doors are already finished. Only those curved doors take time. So I'll...
Prabhupāda: So you have made, cut fashion?
Mahāṁśa: Pardon?
Prabhupāda: Fashionable?
Mahāṁśa: Yes, it looks a little nice.
Prabhupāda: All right.
Haṁsadūta: Yes, well, this evening I was just over there, and I noticed some of the carpenters are cooking and I don't know who the other people are.
Prabhupāda: Why?
Mahāṁśa: They're not cooking for the feast. They're cooking their own thing.
Haṁsadūta: No, no, no. They were cutting up our vegetables which are going to be cooked and served to the public.
Mahāṁśa: No.
Haṁsadūta: Yes, right over there by the fire.
Prabhupāda: No uninitiated person should cook. Brāhmaṇa cook.
Prabhupāda: No, no, cooking alone, it is not possible. So that you have to do. Find out some men. Cooperate. Otherwise how it is possible?
Haṁsadūta: Yes, therefore I'm asking you about hired people, whether hired people are good. In my experience...
Prabhupāda: So if they are, if our men not available, then you must hire, hire people. But not these carpenters or like that.
Mahāṁśa: No, we should get professional cooks who are really good, like this man who cooked today.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And this man is coming. He can bring.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Rāmeśvara: These are the heads for the Śeṣa-naga of this Mahā-Viṣṇu exhibit. They are made from rubber and they have all the details.
Prabhupāda: Acchā. How rubber you make mold?
Rāmeśvara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You do yourself?
Rāmeśvara: They do, yes.
Prabhupāda: So what is the benefit of rubber?
Rāmeśvara: It has something to do with the curves.
Prabhupāda: Oh. In clay, it cannot.
Rāmeśvara: They started manufacturing it, at a time. That's what they used. This is a doll of Kṛṣṇa speaking to Arjuna on the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra.
Prabhupāda: Very good. Nobody can think it is doll. How many men are engaged?
Rāmeśvara: I think thirty devotees. That includes all the carpenters and...
Prabhupāda: And they are becoming expert so that in future many other also.
Prabhupāda: Sad means "Try to come to the transcendental platform, sat, and don't remain in this asat." Asat means which is temporary.
Guest (6): And tamasi mā jyotir gamaya.
Prabhupāda: Ah! Tamasa... "Don't remain in the darkness; come to the light." So this is the Vedic injunction. But we don't take advantage of the instruction. We think that "If I can make one table from a ordinary wooden plank, that is advancement." This is technology. This nice polished table is a transformation of the crude wooden plank. So if a crude wooden plank is transferred into nice table, we see: "Oh, this is advancement." What is actual benefit? I can do without this table. But we have taken: "This is advancement. Transforming the form of an element into another, that is advancement." So asate vilāsa. This is asat, this wood, either in crude form or in transferred form. So I am taking credit because a crude wood has been turned into a table. So that is my vilāsa. So sat saṅga chāḍi kāinu asate vilāsa. So I am now bound up. I can become a very nice carpenter. Does it mean that I am self-realized? If you have learned the art of turning crude wood into a table, nice table, you may get the credit of becoming a nice carpenter; that does not mean you are self-realized. They are taking credit of this turning crude wood into nice table, and they're thinking that "Our life is successful." This is going on. And the real technology, that "I am not this body; I have been put into this condition, and I am transmigrating from one body to another"—there is no such knowledge.
Prabhupāda: So people were inclined to send their children to gurukula. Now they are inclined to send their children to cinema, this, that... A difficult task, to institute. Loafer class, they should be trained up as śūdras, in carpentry, moving(?)... It doesn't, do not require academic education. Simply make a skill. They'll learn.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're not after the loafer class.
Prabhupāda: No, no. They are not loafer. They are also useful. But they are... Bringing them to the education, university, they are becoming loafer, ironclad. As soon as the low-class men are given education, he thinks, "Now I have become educated, baḍa bāpu. Why shall I work as a carpenter? I must have credits here." And they're bribing in government office, and sixty percent of the clerks-useless. They do not know how to make file, cumberous. Because everyone is going in New Delhi. And all fourth-class men are admitted. I have seen. If you have to find out an old file, you have to wait six months. Because these people are neither for this purpose nor that purpose.
Prabhupāda: The Englishmen used to say these men, craft and technolo..., "educated laborer." They are laborer and little educated. There are uneducated laborer, just like carpenter. He doesn't require any education. If he knows how to rub on... What is called, that? That instrument? He doesn't require to become M.A., Ph.D. All these laborers are working so nicely. So why they should spend, waste their time in going to school and college? From the very be... As soon as he's ten years old only, let him learn practically how to weave cloth, how to become carpenter, how become other craftsman. And in due course of time he can earn his... How to cultivate land... Why so many big, big universities for inviting everyone? There is no need. Educated means brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya. Brāhmaṇa will give real knowledge, and kṣatriyas will govern. For vaiśyas and śūdras, there is no... It is waste of time. Formerly it was done so. The vaiśyas, they have got a son, goes to a shopkeeper: "Please here let my son work with you. He doesn't want any salary." So he gets engagement. Then, by seeing, seeing, he becomes little important. And the proprietor gives him some hand expense. And then, one day, he becomes very expert. He starts his own business. That was the system. Why he should go and waste time for education? A boy is given to a carpenter. He learns very easily. A weaver, he learns very easily. A shopkeeper, grocer, he learns very easily. That is education. Why he should waste time for academic education and create unemployment? So long he's not educated, he has got enough employment. Still they take in the morning, say, half a mound of ḍāl and goes home to home: (Hindi) So by saying, after mound of ḍāl, he makes up these two, three rupees' profit. That's all. Where is unemployment?
Prabhupāda: The dog-eaters are the lowest of the mankind. They are dog-eaters. In Europe they do not eat dog. And they're Indo-European stock. These are dog-eaters. They're rejected. We accept them as living entities, but their quality is the lowest. So they are not yet prepared to receive such exalted knowledge. Better let that book be pushed slowly. Let them become fit gradually. Then we'll go. For the time being, they are not fit. They can be expert in... You see in your country, so many Chinese are now... What was their business? There... They went there as craftsmen, as carpenter, as..., not as professor or teacher of philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Scientist is rascal. That is proved. They are insisting that chemical can produce life. He's a rascal. They have gone to moon planet. That's a rascal. So what is the value of so-called scientist. Why should we give any importance? I'm not giving any importance. If you become scientist, that so much ghee and so much āṭā makes puri, and we can eat very nicely, all right, you are a scientist. But so much chemicals, make it life—prove that. The confectioner is also scientist. He knows very well how to do his business. A carpenter is also scientist. Here is some work nice done by the carpenter. I cannot do it. You may be a great scientist, but me? It is not possible for me to do a carpentry work. In this way it is going on. (Bengali) You have learned something, you can do it very nicely. But I cannot do it. For me it will be beating by the rod if I am given this work. I can translate, my work. So everyone is scientist, his own field of activities, to some extent. You cannot make everyone agree.
Kīrtanānanda: This is a view of the outside near the top railing.
Prabhupāda: How they learned so much?
Kīrtanānanda: (laughs) Kṛṣṇa's in the heart. Nobody's ever done this before. This is the bracket that goes under the sun shade. This is a view of Bahulaban farm. This is the big guesthouse that is just completed, and this is another new building that has gone up since you've been there. This will be a utility building for all different kinds of shops where they can make jewelry and cast concrete and carpenter shops and all different shops. So we all thank you very much, because it is only by your grace we have gotten this inspiration.
Prabhupāda: Besides that, whenever you require money, you can ask. He'll give.
Kīrtanānanda: Thank you, Prabhupāda. I prefer to give it. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: No. Give and take. (break) You are fulfilling my dream, New Vrindaban. I dreamt all these things. Wonderful things have been done. He is the first student, from the very beginning. When I was in the storefront he was bringing carpet, bench, some gong, some lamp. In this way...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's still bringing gifts.
Prabhupāda: Sevā-vṛtti, service attitude. Jaya. (pause) Live long, serve long.
Kīrtanānanda: Thank you.
| Page Title: | Carpenter (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | MadhuGopaldas |
| Created: | 12 of Feb, 2010 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=32, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 32 |