Go to Vanipedia | Go to Vanisource | Go to Vanimedia


Vaniquotes - the compiled essence of Vedic knowledge


Calcutta (Conversations 1977)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Sundar island, Sundarban, Bengal.

Dr. Patel: Sundarban has gone in Pakistan side.

Prabhupāda: Still in West Bengal. Sundarban is near Calcutta, about fifty miles.

Dr. Patel: All water-logged country.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are big, big tigers, big, big snakes. That Bengal tiger is famous. That tiger, his tail sometimes ten feet.

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, I can give you some loan.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We will do that. We may need a small loan because... Also the printer came to see me. I told him to bring down the Bengali Gītār Gān price, and I'll think we'll print only one lakh here because his quality is much better than a small letter press in Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: So if you regularly do businesslike, I can give you loan.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We may need a small loan, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I'm not asking till it becomes...

Prabhupāda: No. For printing books I'll give you loan.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually the BBT's turnover now is around four lakhs. A year ago we opened this BBT account with only two thousand rupees in the bank. Now it's gone to four lakhs.

Prabhupāda: Books which are sellable, you can print in quantity. That will be cheaper. These books I think will be...

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: I know Mr. Bajoria in Calcutta, he told me that in the beginning the Indians would not purchase tea because they considered it was sinful, and the British had to make a big propaganda.

Prabhupāda: Yes, tea sets(?) committee. All the tea gardeners, all, they were mostly Britishers. They paid money for maintaining a department, tea sets(?) committee, and their only business was to make propaganda village to village how tea becomes popular. Similarly, drinking, meat-eating... And it became a fashion among the richer class to keep prostitutes, go to the garden weekend with prostitutes and wine, freely use them, intoxicated. It was a prestigious position to keep a prostitute. A rich man having a garden and one prostitute, they were... Anything in demand... I have seen it. Now I think, "How things are going on, that...?" You have seen that Mullik's house?

Girirāja: Yes.

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: In our childhood I saw. To go weekend to the garden and... Generally they go with family, and others, they go with prostitute. With prostitute they have got freedom to handle. The higher... And not only that, during marriage ceremony, high circle marriage ceremony, they would participate in drinking, even men and women. Otherwise, in India, woman drinking or taking meat is a horrible crime. And what to speak of smoking? That is most shameless. That was aristocratic, drinking and eating meat... The Bengali, they were the richer section because others, they were foreigners. They came to Calcutta and earned money. And the Bengalis, they had their aristocratic families, zamindaries, everything in their occupation. So Bengalis were richer section in Calcutta, and..., four, five big, big families. And now they are finished on account of this aristocracy. So one gentleman, he was Harendranatha Singh, very rich man, one of the richest men of Calcutta. He lost all his estate simply by this extravagance. Every evening his house is full with guests every evening, for... What is called? That table?

Girirāja: Billiards?

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Billiard-playing or some exhibition of singing, and hundreds of men will gather. And they were feasting, first-class food. In this way spending, spending, spending... And then prostitute, aristocracy. In this way one property and one property lost, everything. At last I saw him going by rickshaw. One day it was raining, and I saw that he was sitting in a rickshaw, and no friend asked him that, "Haren Babu, why you are...? You come to my car," so many. And he was friendly to so many zamindars, kings, and very intimate with... But they lost of everything, and nobody cares. His sons, they are of our age. I do not know whether living or not. But most probably they are not living. They became professional singers, coming of such aristocratic father. His father, that Mr. R. N. Singh, was a very good singer. That also was another aristocratic that aristocrat family—art, some art: painter, singer, poets. Just like Rabindranath Tagore. They became famous as artist. Avanindranatha Thakur, he became famous as artist, and Rabindranath Tagore became... They also followed the aristocratic family, Calcutta. Similarly, this R. N. Singh became a singer. Because they are rich men, they have nothing to do, so... And nobody instructed them how to become saintly person. Simply debauchery and... (break) On the whole the whole human civilization is..., and all the directors, they are not giving chance to know the value of life and how to conduct life. It is the first time, that we are giving the real idea of life.

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Hari-śauri: I think in the West they have a law that says you can't use human sewage.

Prabhupāda: Kick out the West. We are doing here, in India. The municipality is doing that also in Vṛndāvana. Everywhere it is. In Calcutta there is called dhāpāra māṭha. Dhāpāra māṭha, formerly, anything produced in dhāpāra māṭha, that was not used for Deity. The superstition that "These vegetables are grown in filthy water, nasty..." But the vegetables were-cauliflower so big, so big. Everything, very luxuriantly, very tasteful and solid and big... Dhāpāra māṭhera (Bengali). They used to take. In Bengal, generally, the land is very fertile to produce vegetables. But this, the more the filthy things of the city were thrown there, and the cultivator used to grow very nice... That is utilization of this filthy water where there was sewer ditches formerly. In the village they diverted from the water in the field, and they got good crops. Generally they pass stool in the field. The cow's, cow dung and man's stool and everyone's stool, they are wrapped gathered together in the rainy season. It became fertile.

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I had such experience. I had some experience in my childhood in 1911. I was thirteen years old. There was a riot. So our house was there in Mahātmā Gandhi Road, and all sides Muhammadans. We are simply... The Mulliks and our house are simply some respectable men. Otherwise it was surrounded (surrendered?) by... That is called Kwalabala and Bastik, all Muhammadans, backside fully Muhammadans. So the riot was there, and I went to play. There is a square, Marker(?) Square. So I did not know the riot has taken place. I was coming home. So one of my class friends said that "You do not go to your house. That side is rioting now." So because we are in the Muhammadan quarter, this fighting between two parties, that was going on. It is usual. So I thought it may be like that, that two guṇḍās are fighting. I have seen. One guṇḍā is stabbing the other guṇḍā. I have seen. And they are pickpockets. When you are passing they would... I have seen, he is pickpocketing. (laughter) And they were our neighbor men. So I thought "It must be like that. This is going on." But when I came the crossing of Mahatma Gandhi... At that time Harrison Road it was. Harrison Road and Holi..., Holiday, Halliday Street, yes. So one shop was being plundered. Putamat putamat putamat..." So I was child, a boy. I became... "What is this happening?" In the meantime all, my father, mother, members: "Oh, the child has not come." They became so mad, they came out of home expecting, "Wherefrom the child will come?" So what could I do? When I saw, then I began to run towards our house, and one Muhammadan, he wanted to kill me. He took his lāṭhi and actually... But I passed through some way or other. I was saved. So as soon as I came before our gate they got their life. So without speaking anything I went to the bedroom, and it was in the month of... It is winter. So I... Without saying anything I laid down, wrapping myself with quilt. So that time I was rising: "Is it ended? The riot is ended?" I was asking. I remember. So I would have been killed in that riot. So I have got experience of this riot. That is the first riot in Calcutta, in 1911.

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Setterji: I was passing on my car after Pakistan from Laul(?) and they put bomb, hand grenade, and the back glass broken, but we...

Prabhupāda: Saved. Kṛṣṇa saved. Unless Kṛṣṇa saves, who can? So I had the experience of riot in Calcutta in my childhood.

Setterji: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: At any moment.

Setterji: "Who are afraid from death? Come on!" challenging... (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Soldiers, they forget that "We have to die." They fight for... That is another madness. In Hindi it is called kunchariya.(?)

Setterji: Kunchariya. (Hindi) That is... Ah.

Prabhupāda: Soldiers they do that. It is unnaturally he becomes. They become mad after killing. (Hindi) ...kṣatriya spirit. They must be trained up kṣatriyas. If he is bāniyā, he cannot do it.

Letter to Russian -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but in Delhi I could not find any. The only one in Delhi who has mono is Times of India, and it's very difficult to get it done. So I had no alternative.

Prabhupāda: In Calcutta there are many.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I found out that in Allahabad there are a lot for Hindi. But then we had to have somebody over there.

Prabhupāda: Allahabad.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, one devotee or someone who will supervise that. I suspect Bombay will be much more expensive, but I want to check. Tomorrow I'll check it.

Prabhupāda: Allahabad, we are going.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. But right now is Kumbhamela in Allahabad, everything's going to be in so much rush, it's going to be hard to do any business.

Prabhupāda: No, businessmen are there all right. I was doing that business. So in my shop they..., visitors used to come there.

Roof Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Bengali is not at all very difficult.

Mr. Gupta: No, not at all. Once upon a time I could read and write. But it's just out of touch.

Prabhupāda: The Calcutta Marwaris, they speak very fluently. Yes.

Mr. Gupta: Fluently. Being in railways I've had about eight cross-country transfers. Rajkot, Ajmer, Bombay, Ahmedabad, Lohar(?). So I know as much of Gujarati and Marwari too.

Prabhupāda: Rajastani?

Mr. Gupta: Rajastani. Hindi is the mother tongue for Rajastani.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hindi is understood everywhere. (break) ...Bhagavad-gītā, what you have learned?

Mr. Gupta: The only thing that I have been able to learn is we... I was told so, quite.(?) By keeping our mind and heart strict, we should do our work as belonging to best āśrama as best as possible. But the human beings tend to twist "as best as possible" in their own way. And that... When the realization comes... (break)

Prabhupāda: Do you realize that the modern civilization is misguided? (break) ...is the quintessence of Bhagavad-gītā. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7). Glāniḥ. The people are misguided. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. He's Dr. Patel. He's Mr. Gupta, a railway officer. He arranged for our tickets.

Roof Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Even first-class. Because it takes more than thirty-six hours to reach...

Prabhupāda: No, twenty-four hours.

Dr. Patel: ...by car, by Calcutta from here, no? Or Kashi Express.

Mr. Gupta: Yes, sir. Twenty-four hours.

Dr. Patel: Kashi Express?

Mr. Gupta: Kashi Express. Kashi Express reaches in the morning just at one...

Dr. Patel: I had gone by Kashi Express. It reached... From here it starts in the evening, and there it reaches Allahabad in the evening.

Mr. Gupta: That is Allahabad Mail. That's Calcutta Mail. Kashi Express leaves at 6:45 in the morning with other and reaches at the same time next morning.

Prabhupāda: So we have to get the train from Dadar.

Mr. Gupta: Yes.

Roof Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Gupta: We had the option of going either on 10th night or 11th morning. But we preferred 11th morning for the same reason.

Prabhupāda: 10th night means?

Mr. Gupta: By Calcutta Mail, or there's a special leaving for Allahabad. There's a special train. We are running Kumbhamela specials.

Prabhupāda: This one.

Mr. Gupta: This one is a regular train. This is Varanasi Express.

Dr. Patel: A special must not have first-class. Has it?

Mr. Gupta: Special has first-class.

Dr. Patel: That special will be better than.

Mr. Gupta: No, it won't be because it leaves on 10th night and it will only go to Naini. It won't go to Allahabad.

Dr. Patel: Isn't it faster...

Prabhupāda: And it changes. You have to change again. From Naini you have to change.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: In my house we spend monthly more than six thousand rupees. I studied for my graduation in the college at fifty rupees a term fee for six months. I'm paying for those small kids going to the family schools seven hundred rupees per month.

Prabhupāda: Our family was taking two kilos and a half milk daily. Two annas per kilo. Ghee was selling, first-class ghee, in Calcutta... Just in front of our house there was a grocer shop. We were purchasing in that tin, but if some required, I would go immediately.

Dr. Patel: Fourteen rupees I think it was. Fourteen rupees is twenty kilos.

Prabhupāda: Less than that. Ten seers.

Dr. Patel: That is twenty kilos.

Trivikrama: Cow ghee?

Prabhupāda: No, buffalo's... Cow ghee we were taking with rice. But it was not available in quantity.

Dr. Patel: Many was so very cheap then. After I graduated myself when I was university scholar, I was given seventy-five rupee scholarship per month and a free bungalow with servants and all these things. It was all right for me till I passed my M.D., seventy-five rupees only.

Prabhupāda: This cow's milk in Bengal, it is compulsory-before beginning your meal, little cow milk, er, ghee mixed with rice and smashed potato. It is very nice.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Cut into pieces.

Mr. Asnani: Prabhupāda, Allahabad, where are you staying?

Prabhupāda: We have got our own camp. You are coming?

Mr. Asnani: I am not fortunate.

Prabhupāda: I am going because I have to go to Bhuvaneśvara via Calcutta. So it is on the way. And besides that, it is a big function. And because my health is not good, if Allahabad atmosphere or Bhuvaneśvara atmosphere helps me little, it is... Of all foodstuff, I see the kitri is good for me, little kitri.

Mr. Asnani: Easily digested also.

Prabhupāda: So I shall begin again kitri. (Hindi) (break) ...take agriculture, you must keep cows. Both of them are related.

Girirāja: Together.

Prabhupāda: The cow will be subsisting on the grass, and refused things he'll take. And the substance you take. And even if does not give milk, the stool is useful. And you get food grown by the cows and bulls and milk. You subsist. So by mutual cooperation you subsist. You save time. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Why you are bothered?

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And what about Gītār Gān?

Bhavabhūtī: Yes. Also that's included. Fifteen thousand BTG's and Gītār Gāns included. The boys are so enthusiastic now...

Prabhupāda: In the boat?

Bhavabhūtī: Yes. On the boat. But even when we came into Calcutta—it was a two-hour train ride—the boys were not simply sitting. They were going from car to car selling books. One boy he sold fifty BTG's just coming from outside of Calcutta to Calcutta. Just two-hour train ride. He was going from car to car, "Hare Kṛṣṇa," and he would give them Bengali Back to Godhead. And they are taking very nicely now. All along the Ganga...

Prabhupāda: They know how to... (laughs) It is for them that the movement is being pushed on.

Guest (2): Sincerity in the... Two things are there.

Prabhupāda: Everything they are doing. That is... Because these American boys and girls they are cooperating, this movement will advance. Otherwise I don't get any cooperation.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why?

Gurudāsa: Because he sent them first in one man's name who didn't cash them, or was instructed that he shouldn't do that, and he did by mistake. Then he sent them in my name and he sent them "account payee," and they wouldn't open an account without permission from the Reserve Bank of India. So that would have taken too long. So I've come... First I went to Calcutta, and I thought... I have the drafts. I thought maybe Gargamuni Swami could give me the lakṣmī, the money. But he didn't want to do it. So now I'm here. I'm going to get it this morning and go back. I wrote a complete report for you, but I'll tell it to you. As far as the location goes, the location is a little bit off. I'm not that satisfied with it, but...

Prabhupāda: Where is the location?

Gurudāsa: It's on what's called Gangadwip. But that's new place. It's an island that just appeared this year, splitting the Ganges in two. You know, Jushi is here, and Gangadwip is here. And the place where we were last year is here. We were here last year, Gangadwip is here, and Jushi is here. And... But I've been sending out and going out on saṅkīrtana, so that will make up for our location. It's not so bad, but I want to paint a true picture. It's not so good, nor is it so bad. And there's thirteen tents. We have three bigas of land, sand. And we've made a tin enclosure all the way around. And we had a Swiss cottage tent for yourself. Swiss cottage means a room about this large from the end of the almirah to the wall and about this wide. And then a middle room about from here to the wall, and then another small room. But I was not satisfied with that, so I took that tent down, and when I left a day and a half ago I told Bhāgavata dāsa and Jagat-guru Mahārāja, who are there, to erect a straw house for you, bigger. So they are, I hope, doing that. The difficulty was that we had no money, and therefore I've come and am going back. I had a few hundred dollars in traveler's checks which I cashed and gave it to them to keep going.

Prabhupāda: Straw house is not good.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Gurudāsa: It's your own right to...

Dr. Patel: He thought that India is spoiled by American policy, Mr. Dulles's. And he spoiled the pitch, this Mr. Nehru, Nehru, being a flamboyant, highly arrogant man... And then they supported Pakistan, and Americans lost lot of money on these small wars. Instead of that, much money was given away to a poor country. it was Dulles who got United States to this present condition. We should have insulated this country after svaraj, not selling anything, not taking anything. Produce yourself or starve and die. People don't work when they get food like that.

Prabhupāda: I am simply surprised when I compare British days and nowadays. My practical experience—one of my maternal uncles, he's a very big, rich man. He was; he is not existing. So he was doing business, rice exporting. So in Calcutta, Chetra side, he had big, big godown full of rice. Not only he, other merchants also. But now they are empty. Similarly, from Bombay the oil seeds are being exported.

Dr. Patel: Yes. Last year they exported so much of this groundnut. Groundnut oil is costlier than ghee. (talks on for few minutes)

Prabhupāda: So we can go? (end)

Arrival of BBT Manager -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We can give the name of few leading bookstores in each city.

Prabhupāda: Not through bookstore. Only our...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhaktivedanta Book Trust.

Prabhupāda: Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, and you can give that Calcutta agent, Vrnda Book... That's all.

Rāmeśvara: And for the books you have in Hindi you should write "available in Hindi."

Prabhupāda: No, Hindi we shall advertise differently.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In Hindi papers.

Hari-śauri: Advertise in Hindi.

Prabhupāda: Hindi, yes. And this is English. In this way I have given the idea. We'll make the space contract and ask them the concession, because it is charitable...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That we will get.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In this way immediately arrange.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (2): They feel that you are kidnapping their children. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: And therefore they are kidnapping. His father, mother came in Calcutta. His mother asked, "Swamiji, please return my son." And "Take your son."

Guest (2): He?

Prabhupāda: "Return my son." And "Take your son." And then he was asked, and he was silent. So mother began to cry. So I promised that "I shall send your son. He'll go. Don't bother." His father, mother came. And many father, mother come to give me thanks, "Swamiji, it is great fortune of our country that you have come."

Guest (10): Similar instance about a man swami also, Parsee boy who is now in Hyderabad.

Girirāja: Mahāṁsa.

Prabhupāda: Her (His) said, mother in the beginning she opposed. Yes, she is happy now.

Guest (10): She wants to meet you, Prabhupāda. Can I bring her tomorrow?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation -- January 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Postbox? Why?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It is not necessary. Yes, that's what I'm asking. It's not.

Prabhupāda: What is the address?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: 30 by 1B College Row, Calcutta 70009.

Prabhupāda: Or Calcutta 9 is...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Now they have the Pin code. Zip Code, so...

Prabhupāda: Phone number.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I have that. Telephone 617796. Now one question on pricing. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, we are selling it to the libraries for forty-five rupees.

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is not the question of library. What is the general price?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The general price is...

Rāmeśvara: Lower.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No. The general price is higher. What's the U.S. registered price? They're just asking that... It comes about seventy rupees.

Prabhupāda: Don't make duplicity pricing.

Room Conversation -- January 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I had one... When I was doing medical business I had one very nice customer. He was my patron also, one Muhammadan doctor, Sriraja Uttina.(?) He was very kind to me. He was just like a father to me. So his system was that in his pharmacy, patent medicine, drugs, medicine, surgical instruments, like that different headings. So suppose, at the sales time, sells some patent medicine. So he has got a box. So he puts the price in the patent medicine. And if he sells some surgical, he puts the price in the surgical pot. In this way, when they want to purchase again, so he would consult his pot, whether there is money. Then he'll allow to purchase. Otherwise not. So he told me, "This is my account. This is my account. When they want to purchase, they consign us something. I shall allow them to purchase so much as I have got in the box." This is... I have seen that gentleman. And in Calcutta there was... In our young time there was a cinema, Mr. Maddar, J.F. Maddar. He's a Parsee. So for some..., business, he was tenant of mine. One of my tenants. So in his room there were boxes. So I asked Mr. Maddar what is this box at home. And "This is the counter containing counter part of ticket in my cinema house. So these are sent to me. I count the counter part. Then I can calculate, 'This is the calculation.' I don't keep an account. Now let them do whatever they like. I understand that so many counter parts, so much money."

Room Conversation -- January 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You make expert, on quality expert.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We are doing all the Gujarati covers in Bombay now, and I wrote to Jayapataka. We can even do the Bengali printing here.

Prabhupāda: In India, Bombay is best. There are many offset printing houses.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Like in the Bengali Back to Godhead they did in Calcutta, they spent eight paisa more per copy printing than Bombay, and quality was much inferior. So now I said, "You compose over there..."

Prabhupāda: Typeset is Delhi good, but offset-Bombay.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So what I've told them, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is they can get the composing done in Bengal, Calcutta, then send it to me, like I get the Hindi composing done in Vṛndāvana and mail it to Bombay for printing. So it is cheaper and good quality, plus we have the whole department set up. One boy, Pippalai, he just takes care of technical aspects. And we have a shipping department all set up now. Two boys work just on the shipping.

Prabhupāda: So supply department keep in one place.

Room Conversation -- January 16, 1977, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: It is contaminated for you, not for us. Why contaminated? So many people are taking. In Bengal, all villagers, they take bath in the pond, this tank. Large quantity, water, is not contaminated. A small quantity, water, is contaminated.

Abhirāma: Everything is there, the fish and this...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Abhirāma: Everything is keeping it clean. So Śrīla Prabhupāda? I have built one home at Māyāpur. Perhaps you have been told. My plan was to leave my wife there because she likes a peaceful place. City life she cannot live. And I would stay in Calcutta, say, four days a week and go on weekends to Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Go.

Abhirāma: That way there be some separation. At the same time...

Prabhupāda: Gradually full separation. And she'll be... (end)

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: Yes. Because after he goes there's nothing.

Prabhupāda: Tīrtha Mahārāja was planning to exchange that property with a Calcutta Muhammadan, that he would give him that property, and this Muhammadan would give him this property, his property. I checked it. I approached the donor, the Bali-hatti(?) zamindar, that "You donated this temple and it is going to be in the hands of Muhammadan. Do you like it?" So he said, "No, I don't like it." I said, "Make it inquiry." He inquired, and he immediately wrote Tīrtha Mahārāja that "You are contemplating. This we do not approve. We are the donor." So Tīrtha Mahārāja replied him that "It is no more in the hands of the donor. I am the trustee. Whatever I like, I can do."

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: Ruthless.

Prabhupāda: Then he... There was very strong correspondence, and Tīrtha Mahārāja could not dare to do it. Otherwise he arranged like that, to give the temple to a Muhammadan and accept a Calcutta property which belonged to the Muhammadan.

Gargamuni: So when he could not do that, he just left it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He had no spiritual idea. Simply he wanted to exploit the property. That's all.

Gargamuni: So maybe we can save that place.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If we can do, it will be a great service.

Gargamuni: 'Cause still there is fifteen million Hindus in Bangladesh.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: Yes, for translating. They wanted to annihilate anyone who had any literary talent. That was their idea. Or anyone who had any education. So that after they left the country there wouldn't be anything. Because they knew they had to leave one day because of the revolutionary spirit. So they thought, "Let us ravage the whole country and then leave." And that's what they did. Their main attack was the university. When I was there that was their first attack 'cause that university was a very old one and...

Prabhupāda: Yes, Dacca University next to Calcutta University. Just see how human beings are becoming less than ferocious animals.

Gargamuni: Even one man, he was making a plaque in your name in thankfulness for preaching this Vaiṣṇava-dharma. He was making a wooden plaque, and he was a doctor of physics at the university. And one night they came in and shot him and his whole family, this man. He was very helpful to us while we were there.

Prabhupāda: Only fault that he was making some...

Gargamuni: No, his fault was that he had some education. Anyone who was doing anything... This one boy who was translating your books, he was a very educated person. He was about thirty years old.

Prabhupāda: Hindu.

Room Conversation -- January 20, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Then what will happen to this boat?

Gargamuni: No, we can use both. But we want to expand the program.

Prabhupāda: Hm. So I have no objection. Money can be supplied, but it may not be another burden. That's it.

Gargamuni: No, we'll investigate the ship because in Calcutta is a very big center of shipbuilding.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: They build big ships there. And we don't have to limit our traveling simply in the river. We can also go along the coast of Bengal and also Orissa. There's so many villages. And if we have...

Prabhupāda: Orissa... That means you have to go by the sea, Bay of Bengal

Gargamuni: Bay of Bengal. And there's so many villages along there.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: You can do so much saṅkīrtana.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 20, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: It is run by petrol?

Gargamuni: No. Diesel.

Prabhupāda: Diesel.

Gargamuni: Yes. I've seen them in Calcutta. Next time you come, we can walk on the Ganges side. They're about sixty feet long.

Prabhupāda: So they are prepared in Calcutta?

Gargamuni: Yes. They make them there.

Prabhupāda: You can have.

Gargamuni: And we can get a custom-made ship. Your Divine Grace may also want to take. From Māyāpur we can go by boat. It takes only five or six hours by boat if we have an engine, and you may like the nice trip.

Hari-śauri: That'll be very nice.

Prabhupāda: So how you go?

Room Conversation -- January 20, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So how you go?

Gargamuni: And we can have cruises...

Prabhupāda: No, how you go? You have to come to the sea? No.

Gargamuni: No. No. We go from Calcutta to Māyāpur by boat.

Prabhupāda: By boat. Then we can pass through this Naihati.

Gargamuni: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Naihati is the other way?

Hari-śauri: Panihati.

Gargamuni: Panihati, yes.

Prabhupāda: Panihati, ha. Panihati.

Gargamuni: You pass through... See, by this present boat it takes about ten days from Calcutta to Māyāpur. It takes a long time. And if there's no wind, they have to walk on the shore. And the boat is too small now for our program.

Prabhupāda: No, then you can take... What is the price?

Gargamuni: Well, I can only estimate. I have not gone deeply into it. But it will cost a few lakhs of rupees.

Prabhupāda: Few lakhs?

Gargamuni: Yeah. (Prabhupāda laughs) Well, it's a huge boat. But it can go on the sea. And we can do the whole coast of India. We can go all around the coast and do all the villages.

Room Conversation -- January 20, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Why you want to go by boat to the coast?

Gargamuni: Because you can't get by road. There's no roads. They're dirt roads. Many of the villages you can't get to except along the water routes.

Prabhupāda: Hm. But so far I know, it is very rough, Bay of Bengal.

Gargamuni: Well, we can invest... I know these ships in Calcutta. I saw at the pier at least five or six of these ships, these fishing boats, and they go up and down. I know if we take a...

Prabhupāda: No, if you get a big boat, that is all right, ferry boat. But if you get a small boat, the sea is very rough.

Gargamuni: Sixty feet. Sixty, seventy feet. My father had a sixty-foot boat, and we went in the Atlantic Ocean, and it wasn't so bad.

Prabhupāda: Atlantic Ocean is very rough.

Gargamuni: Yes. But we went there. We had a cruise boat. Actually it was forty-two feet.

Prabhupāda: And here it is sixty.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: Yes. I will go. In a Muslim country to establish Vaiṣṇavism.

Prabhupāda: The temple is nice, and let us renovate it and establish our center, and gradually, if Americans preach there, the Muhammadans will come. If Hindu preach, they'll take otherwise. But when they see the Americans have come, they'll take it little seriously. And now we have got philosophy. At least the educated class will understand. You take that, and it will be a great triumph. My Guru Mahārāja will be pleased. He established that temple, and Tīrtha Mahārāja was selling it. But he has no power to go there. He was exchanging. I told you that that I went to the donor and asked him that "Your temple is being exchanged with a Muhammadan." So they took it seriously, and they stopped it. This temple was donated by one big zamindar. They live in Sababazar.(?) They have got enough property in Dacca, big zamindar, Balihet. How he dared to exchange the temple established by Guru Mahārāja for a house in Calcutta? Just what kind of person he was, just imagine.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. All our activities are like that. What is the condition of Caitanya Matha now?

Gargamuni: Caitanya Matha? They're very quiet now. When I came out to Māyāpur—I think it was about ten days ago—I saw a big bus, a tourist bus, and this..., the son came out with a bunch of people to Caitanya Matha. But it's relatively quiet now there. There's no actions.

Prabhupāda: So he brought some men from Calcutta?

Gargamuni: Yes. He brought some people in a tourist bus.

Prabhupāda: Indian?

Gargamuni: Yes. We have noticed recently many tourist buses there in Māyāpur now. They are coming from other areas, middle class people. They rent this tourist bus, and they have been touring Māyāpur. Sometimes they come and at the time of prasādam they ask, "Can we get our food here? We're about forty persons." So we take them over to the prasādam pavilion and they take. But this was never before. Never was there a tourist bus in Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: No.

Gargamuni: Never.

Prabhupāda: No. So you shall go? What is the time?

Hari-śauri: Ten past six.

Gargamuni: I think it's still a little dark.

Hari-śauri: No, it's light. (break)

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our mission. Who has written that?

Gargamuni: That's Dr. Krishna Gopal Gosvāmī.

Rāmeśvara: Head of the Department of Sanskrit at Calcutta University.

Prabhupāda: He has got good experience because university students they have become so rascal. In the university they don't care for professors, teachers. Don't care.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. Then the professor and the head of the Department of Bengali and the dean of the faculty of Fine Arts and Music at the University of Calcutta says, "The world, tormented by psychic troubles like avarice, hate, and other baser qualities of the mind, will never escape from utter annihilation of the soul unless it finds refuge in His Divine Grace. I have particularly read some portions of this English translation of Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, and I think this book is capable of saving mankind from the clutches of māyā. I have no doubt that the ISKCON will lead the world to the path of divine grace."

Gargamuni: He's a very big scholar, too. He's a Ph.D.

Prabhupāda: No, all of them Ph.D.'s. All...

Room Conversation -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: You also went. You also went.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, but he and Tejas did most of the talking in the local language.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Satsvarūpa: The owners are in Calcutta. It finally traced out.

Rāmeśvara: Well, we found out that the government has now taken an interest in buying this property, all the properties on the beach. The government is looking for different excuses. Maybe someone violates his lease or he doesn't keep the property according to the lease. Somehow or other, the government wants to develop the land for hotel. So our idea is that there's two properties which are good for us. One of them the government is already committed to buying, and the other one the government is interested in buying but has not yet purchased. So for the first one we can approach the government officials directly.

Prabhupāda: No, then this Kartanai(?) can help.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. And their main interest is foreign exchange from the tourists. So if we offer them U.S. dollars to purchase the property, they may think, "Why should we waste our time developing when they will give us lakhs in U.S. dollars, and let them develop?"

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: A bogus.

Gargamuni: He's Chatterjee. He's Calcutta demon. I think Chatterjee is brāhmaṇa name, but he is talking like demon.

Prabhupāda: The Rāvaṇa was also Chatterjee. He was the son of Kaśyapa, brāhmaṇa. Bankim Babu wrote one book. The name of the book was Chatterjee and Bannerjis. So they're being distributed prasādam? No. (crowd can be heard in background)

Nanda-kumāra: The prasādam is there. I'll see if...

Prabhupāda: No... Somebody talking?

Brahmānanda: There's so many... So much noise. They must be talking.

Gargamuni: There were many foreigners we saw in Purī. One busload came, busload of foreigners.

Prabhupāda: In Purī many foreigners come. It is tourist city.

Nanda-kumāra: Everyone is taking prasāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: They have got respect for prasādam. So you are distributing prasādam?

Room Conversation with Film Producer about Krsna Lila -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Take prasāda. Generally... Of course, I do not know what you have done. Generally they present rasa-līlā. They describe rasa-līlā. These professional Bhāgavata means they immediately begin to recite rasa-līlā. Bhāgavata reading dissertation means rasa-līlā. And people take in a different way, that "Kṛṣṇa was woman-hunter. He married sixteen thousand wives, and He had three hundred thousand gopīs, and He was enjoying with woman. Just see." I saw one doctor. He was a debauch. He was Muhammadan. So his friend came. So... In Calcutta. So he was addressing, kibava Kṛṣṇa.(?) Just see. Kṛṣṇa means debauch.

Guest (2): No.

Prabhupāda: No, no, you don't mean, but people have taken like that. Anyone who is woman-hunter, he is Kṛṣṇa. This is going on.

Guest (2): Therefore, Guruji, we have started...

Guest (1): This is the spiritual way we have started.

Guest (2): Spiritual way, we started from that Vṛndāvana, with this Kṛṣṇa... Ātmā, Paramātmā (Oriya) Here to start. Then we'll go to that...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Why you start from this? Why not start Kṛṣṇa's birth, Kṛṣṇa's playing with cowherd boys, Kṛṣṇa's...?

Room Conversation with Film Producer about Krsna Lila -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No, we are recognized by all educated circle all over the world. If you read the opinions of scholars.

Guest (2): We have read many of your publications. And I was just telling him like dharma that "Swamiji has done only one thing, that he has made the universe not only contained to India. He has made the whole world conscious about Kṛṣṇa. To know about Kṛṣṇa at least, the real Kṛṣṇa. Or the superpower. He has made this point.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we have to progress very cautiously, very cautiously, not irresponsibly. That is our point.

Guest (2): Recently I had been to Calcutta for the recording of this songs of kṛṣṇa-līlā. (Oriya or Bengali)

Guest (1): Yaśodā and Kṛṣṇa. (Oriya or Bengali)

Guest (2): Unless they go back to Kṛṣṇa, nobody can help us to that.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (end)

Room Conversation -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: I dropped him at the train station.

Prabhupāda: It is crowded?

Gargamuni: No.

Bhāgavata: Abhirāma is going tomorrow to Calcutta. On the way he will stop at Remuṇā.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Bhāgavata: He will inform them that you will come on which day. On the day, third or fourth of February, after this function is over, he will inform them that you are coming. Then night of the function I will go ahead and see that everything is...

Prabhupāda: That you arrange with the secretary. So Brahmānanda's going to America. For the time being he should go.

Gargamuni: Oh, yes, he said he will go for some time. He just told me. (break) You are famous for starting from nothing. (Prabhupāda laughs) In New York there was nothing, and you started.

Prabhupāda: Yes, nothing.

Room Conversation -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gurukṛpa: Before him I think was Karttikeya.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. Karttikeya was also doing that. What can be done? I was carrying that Deity, you know?

Gurukṛpa: In Calcutta. They are now in Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's it.

Hari-śauri: They're in Calcutta now?

Gurukṛpa: They've been in Calcutta.

Hari-śauri: Somebody told me that They were the small Deities in New York.

Prabhupāda: No.

Hari-śauri: The brass ones.

Prabhupāda: That is different. That was...

Gurukṛpa: They're in Calcutta.

Room Conversation -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Gaura-Nitāi is there, but in the siṁhāsana...

Hari-śauri: Oh. There's just a picture now. Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is London picture.

Gurukṛpa: They are in Calcutta temple.

Prabhupāda: Maybe Calcutta.

Gurukṛpa: They're very nice.

Satsvarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there is one man here. We knew he was supposed to come from something, "Cultural Affairs of Bhuvaneśvara." He was here earlier today and then later today.

Prabhupāda: All right, let him come.

Hari-śauri: When he came this evening you were taking prasāda, and then immediately after was the lecture. (break)

Guest (1) (Indian man): ...cultural affairs, Orissa government. Here there is a large stack of palm leaf manuscripts. Palm leaf manuscripts. We are editing the Sanskrit manuscripts, correcting them and publishing them.

Prabhupāda: Sanskrit?

Guest (1): Sanskrit.

Room Conversation -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: I told him this. He was interested. He was. But he told me, "Under the present..." The CIA used to give money to certain groups to stop Communism, he said, but recently they have been under investigation for this, so he said it would be very dangerous for them to do such a thing now. But he said he would talk it over. Since then, though, I have not met him. This was at the time when we were called CIA in Calcutta, when it came in the papers. I went to them for advice because they also became very much upset because just before that, the Consulate with his wife came to Māyāpur and saw all of our activities. They were very impressed. And they printed this in the newspaper, trying to show that the Consulate General was also an agent along with Bhavānanda. So he became very angry. He became very angry that they should try to make this up. He said, "Actually I had personally... My wife wanted to come, but I was not so much interested. But because my wife came, I came also. But I don't see why they are trying to link me along with your society as CIA." He said, "This is very bad." And from what I know, they made a formal complaint to the Home Minister of West Bengal, the Home Secretary.

Prabhupāda: That is good.

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Just see. Many. Why Dai Nippon?

Gurukṛpā: But this was eight-thirty at night he came.

Prabhupāda: No, Bombay, Bombay, Calcutta.

Gurukṛpā: I asked him, "What time do you go to work?" He said, "At nine in the morning." I said, "But it is eight-thirty. You have been working now eleven hours." He said, "Well, after I leave here, I must go back to the office and finish my work. I will be finished at eleven tonight. Then I will go home. I will get home at one o'clock, and then I must get up at six in the morning to go to the office." So much tapasya.

Prabhupāda: There is a book, novel. The subject matter is that the man, when he goes out of home the child is sleeping. He has to rise four o'clock to prepare to take the six o'clock train. At that time his child is sleeping. And when he comes back at ten o'clock, the child is sleeping. So he does not know. So when he's grown up, on Sunday he's asking his mother, "Who is this man?" (laughs) This is the subject matter. They have written in a very... He is asking, "Who is this man?" When he was child, he did not see, neither inquired. Now, when he's grown up, on Sunday he sees that this man is very intimately talking with his mother. He... In this way...

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Bhāgavata: Even in India.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Why you say, speak India or in England? The human intelligence is the same. There is no change. They have made like this: "East," "West" and "England," and... The psychology is the same. The ass is the same. The camel is the same. The dog is the same. We are talking of these dogs. Do you think that in Europe the dog is different from Indian dog? (laughs) They have created another problem. But we take: "You are all dogs. Either you be Indian or England or German, you are, after all, after dog. Your mentality is dog." They have created that "Indian dog is better than the English dog" or "English dog is better than German." What is better? It is dog. You are doglike and hankering after some job in America and amongst Europeans. The Indians are all doing that, the same education. Recently for a post of five hundred men there were three lakhs of applications. This is education. And you'll find uneducated Indian, still he's independent. You will find in Calcutta especially we have seen. Yes. In the morning they'll purchase a bag of potato. Say, he invests twenty rupees. Nowadays he'll sit down in a corner and make two rupees' profit. He invests twenty rupees, and he gets twenty-two. He's satisfied, poor man. Then in the, say, ten to twelve he'll purchase some dāl. He'll go home to home. He'll make another two rupees' profit. In the evening he'll take some kerosene oil, and he'll sell. Evening everyone requires kerosene oil. He'll make another two rupees.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Satsvarūpa: I'll write to New York and tell them to emphasize it even more.

Prabhupāda: Bring all these books in the court. Sometimes in Calcutta, high-court judge was a big lawyer. In those days he was earning not less than one thousand rupees per day, say sixty, seventy years ago. That one thousand means thirty times nowadays. Thirty thousand a day. He was very big lawyer. He was offered a judgeship in the... "No, no, no. I don't call for it." He was earning. The judges were getting at that time four thousand per month, and he was earning one thousand daily. So why should he give...? (coughs) So all the judges were friends. So in one case he brought so many books for argument. So the judges were friends, so he very mildly criticized, "Oh, Mr. Ghosh, you have brought the whole library?" "Yes, my lord, just to teach you law." (laughs) This was the... He addressed, "Yes, my lord, just to teach you law. No, no, you do not know what is law. I'll teach you today good lesson." He criticized him, "Mr. Ghosh, you have brought the whole library?" "Yes, my lord, just to teach you law." This is a famous argument. So they cannot deny that "Why you have brought so many books to bother me?" No. "You have to hear. It may take twelve years to hear, but you have to hear. This is law."

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: (laughing) The people who speak the local language can't read it. So the signs are useless. Anybody who is educated enough to read it can read...

Prabhupāda: English language understood. English... They speak in English. In big, big cities like Bombay, Calcutta, Delhi, even the girls, young girls, they would like to speak in English. They don't like to speak in their... At home even, with their father and mother, they're speaking in English. Especially in Bombay, everyone speaks. Not now. I have connection with Bombay since 1927. In 1927 I first went to Bombay. So how many years? Fifty years? I have seen it. They speak in English. They are sending their children where education is given by medium, English. High-class men, they send their children to learn through medium of English. There is Calcutta, St. Julia's College, near our college near our temple.

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: In the West they regard rice as the poor man's food.

Prabhupāda: But Japanese are very intelligent, Bengalis are intelligent, by taking fish and rice. In Bengal ninety percent people, they take fish. Here also, Orissa, cent percent, even the Jagannātha pūjārīs. In Bihar also, fifty percent. The more you go towards Western part of India, you get more wealthy province, just like Uttar Pradesh, very wealthy province, enlightened. All the big cities are there: Allahabad, Kanpur, Agra, Lucknow. Every hundred miles you get a very nice city in UP, the best province in India. All the holy places-Vṛndāvana, Prayāga, Hardwar, Ayodhyā, many celebrated holy places. Ganges and Yamunā flowing, two sacred rivers. Both of them through in Uttar Pradesh. And all the cities are either on the bank of the Yamunā or Ganges. And that is the best province, state, in India. It has got fifty districts. And fifty districts means fifty towns. Little more or less important. But the Kanpur is the third important city in India. First Calcutta, Bombay, and next, Kanpur.

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: Not Delhi?

Prabhupāda: No. Delhi has become important on account of capital.

Satsvarūpa: Politics.

Prabhupāda: Government.

Satsvarūpa: International government.

Prabhupāda: From business point... Now they're making Delhi industrially developed. That is new attempt. But Calcutta, Bombay, Kanpur is old... Calcutta is manufactured by the British. Bombay also manufactured. But Kanpur is older, very old. Kanyakubja. That Ajāmila upākhyāna?(?) Ajāmila?

Hari-śauri: Ajāmila.

Prabhupāda: Ajāmila story, that was in Kanpur. Very, very old city. Kanpur, Mathurā, they are very old cities. Allahabad, Prayāga. Prehistoric. Manipur. (end)

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Lead a gentle life. We don't allow divorce. Is that not good? Where is that check?

Hari-śauri: Two checks. There were two checks for a hundred and ten. That went to Calcutta with Abhirāma.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that check. And another check?

Hari-śauri: And that other check went with Rāmeśvara to Bombay.

Satsvarūpa: One of their arguments is that they'll get some member and deprogram him, some weak devotee, and then he will go to court or he will write and say, "Yes. I did not want to join this movement, but they did something to me, and I lost my free will, and then..."

Prabhupāda: They have said like that?

Satsvarūpa: Yes. They tell so many lies. They say that the devotee looked into his eyes and suddenly he couldn't think anymore.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Satsvarūpa: That's what Ādi-keśava is being charged with-mind control.

Pradyumna: Like asi-kāraṇa.(?) Like mind control, hypnotism.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: We should go after Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: You came directly here by plane?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. I came to Calcutta. (Bengali) So I was planning to go to Bombay. Then I went to the temple. Last night I came, and I called the temple, but there was nobody, so I didn't know where Prabhupāda is. So I was trying to go to Bombay today. Then I learned from the temple that Prabhupāda is here, so I was planning to go by train. Then I found out there is an airplane also available, so I came by plane.

Prabhupāda: Yes, from Calcutta to Bhuvaneśvara there is plane.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I have never been here before in Bhuvaneśvara.

Prabhupāda: Bhuvaneśvara, Jagannātha Purī. They are important places. So give him prasāda first, and then come.(?)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We had a meeting before I came here...

Prabhupāda: Ah, ah.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

rabhupāda: Oh. The nonsense. (laughter) Nāstika vana eka sab duniyā(?). (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...cover, with this Māyāpur background. The idea is that at the bottom is the molecules, and...

Prabhupāda: This will be a revolution, science and Bhagavad-gītā.

Gargamuni: He's our member. (break) ...three times to our temple in Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Gargamuni: And through another member, Mr. Mahesvari, he became one of our members. (break)

Prabhupāda: Rich man, poor man, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, American, Ind..., sab combined. (Hindi) This is really United Nation, our organization. (Hindi) So? What other pictures?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, I have many pictures. I gave a lecture, seminar, just before I came here at the university, about the nature of the Absolute Truth in terms of science and in terms of Bhagavad-gītā, a comparative study of the concept of the Absolute Truth. And there were many professors from physics, chemistry, mathematics, from philosophy, from biology, and from sociology. It was... Balavanta Prabhu was also there, and a few other devotees. It was quite interesting. And there was a slide show.

Prabhupāda: Balavanta was in Manipur?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. This is in the United States.

Prabhupāda: United States.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually we started looking some on this astronomy thing. About this Sūrya-siddhānta. Sadāpūta is especially interested because he's a mathematician. So normally astronomy is subject of mathematics. So he found this copy in Princeton just recently, last month or so. There we found that the idea is very similar to modern science in the Sūrya-siddhānta. But we heard that Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Prabhupāda translated Sūrya-siddhānta, but we are not getting a copy of it. So he asked me to look in Calcutta, and some astrologers.

Prabhupāda: He had some disciples, some astronomer. His name can be had from Calcutta.

Pradyumna: Mohinī-mohana?

Prabhupāda: Ah! Mohinī Śāstrī. Mohinī Śāstrī. He was his disciple.

Pradyumna: I went to try... He's dead now.

Prabhupāda: He is also. He's passed away.

Pradyumna: And I saw his son. I saw his son. I asked if he had any of Śrīla Prabhupāda's books on jyotir, but he did not... He is practicing jyotir, but not...

Prabhupāda: Mohinī Śāstrī's son?

Pradyumna: His son. Sāmba...

Prabhupāda: My Guru Mahārāja was a great astronomer.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So very difficult, that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they did it. After that, I have to get from India government saying that Indian government has no objection for me to be in the United States. So I have to get from Central Government, from the Minister of Education, and I have to get one certificate from the passport office in Calcutta, Regional Passport Office. And I have to get one from Manipur Government saying that Manipur Government has no objection for me to be in the United States. And the Manipur Government objected, that they want me back to Manipur. So there was some difficulty at the beginning. So I told them that "No, no, don't say that. Just say that you don't need me." (laughter) So they did it, letter, and I got all those letters. And that letter has to go to Indian Embassy. First of all it has to go to Indian Consulate in San Francisco. And San Francisco has to send a letter of recommendation to Indian Embassy in Washington. And then the Embassy has to send to Federal Government to the Labor Department in Washington, State Department, saying that "Such and such has this letter."

Prabhupāda: So made it very complicated.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So from next year we shall not do that.

Hari-śauri: No, if it becomes controversial then there's no point.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, there's many, especially in the newspaper.

Nanda-kumāra: Terrible publicity in the newspapers.

Gargamuni: It came in the Calcutta newspaper, but it was not bad. It was not bad article. It was good article.

Prabhupāda: And what is the...? "Do you believe that the Hare Kṛṣṇas, they are in...?"

Hari-śauri: "Would you believe three Hare Kṛṣṇas dressed in Santa Claus suits?"

Prabhupāda: "...in Santa Claus?"

Gargamuni: I think people were more amused than they were angry.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is amusing.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

abhupāda: So arrange for this.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: As many devotees...

Gargamuni: From Calcutta to Imphal by road we can go.

Prabhupāda: So he'll take the party. So manage tomorrow.

Gargamuni: And we can carry all the books and everything by road.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Do that. (break).

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So about a week will be all right, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That will be nice.

Prabhupāda: Our Māyāpur program finishes when?

Gargamuni: The last day is the eighth. And then to Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Eighth March?

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: We don't have to be in Bombay for any reason though, now, because the opening is not going to take place till late.

Prabhupāda: So if just after Māyāpur festival, if you go to...

Gargamuni: From Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pradyumna: You're going to go to Haridaspur after that? Or no?

Prabhupāda: That we can go later on. This is very important. Manipur we want to make a very strong center, because it is Vaiṣṇava state.

Gargamuni: And kṣatriyas.

Prabhupāda: Kṣatriyas.

Gargamuni: We can raise an army over there.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Sanyal. Sanyal. He's in late sixties or early seventies, very old. We became very good friends. He's a very nice man.

Prabhupāda: On the plane?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: On the plane. When I went also, we were in the same plane, because he was making a bridge in Manipur. So he invited me to come to his place in Calcutta, in Balliganj. When also I came back we were in the same plane. It just happened. So he started talking to me that he lost about forty thousand rupees because bridge was broken, and so he said he was feeling very bad, very sad. He was telling me all stories about "Whether I should prepare my life for the future, or whether I should wind up, as he is. Then I started talking about that we always want to be happy, but somehow we misunderstand about our basic position, what position we shall take up, whether... He said he has great difficulty in making decisions, "Whether I shall decide this," so many problems, not knowing what to decide. So we started talking about the real nature of knowledge. The real knowledge is to understand the real difference between this life and matter, the fundamental principle of knowledge.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And while talking, all of a sudden there was a very big bumping in the plane, so everyone was afraid just before we reached Calcutta. So then I mentioned that every moment we are in danger.

Prabhupāda: Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām (SB 10.14.58). Every step there is danger. The other day in Bombay there was accident. Just going up, and so many persons died immediately, ninety persons. Immediately. What is the...?

Yogeśvara: In Bangkok just before we came, just a few days before, a big 747 had crashed.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? So many persons died?

Yogeśvara: So many people dead, just before we arrived.

Prabhupāda: Just see. So you have discovered such thing that any moment you can die, every one. So therefore this is problem.

Hari-śauri: When we just drove down the road just now, when we went past, we saw some people holding a woman, and she was screaming and foaming at the mouth. Just further down the road there was the body of her husband on the road. He'd been squashed flat by a truck, and the body was still there. And the head... Head and arms...

Prabhupāda: Only danger. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām (SB 10.14.58). Every step, simply danger, and we are proud of our scientific advancement. The aeroplane is scientific advancement, but the danger is also more. As soon as you crash, all are altogether... Without an aeroplane one or two men could die, but because you have made this scientific advancement, you all die.

Room Conversation -- February 2, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Yugadharma: Laguna Beach temple... Agnideva dāsa, he's doing very nicely, very first-class. Everything is going... Temple life now is very nice.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere there should be nicer because you are getting experience.

Satsvarūpa: I have the mail, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that Jayapatākā Mahārāja brought yesterday from Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Yes. Some book?

Satsvarūpa: Yes. These books were sent by Patita Uddhāraṇa. He's staying at the... (break)

Prabhupāda: Devotees, they have dedicated life to this. (break) Where you can get such worshiper by paid man? They are after money. They are not after God. So it will be nice if they hand it over to us. We can take charge. (break) ...eternal propaganda.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And now they're getting two vans for book distribution.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And now Gargamuni is asking to purchase this van and with that money they will purchase Indian van. That will solve the problem. Those who are coming... (break) Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī (BG 6.1). Kṛṣṇa says. Anāśritaḥ, now you are working so hard not for your benefit, personal, and that is sannyāsī. That is sannyāsī. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryam. "Oh it is my duty to serve Kṛṣṇa." And he is sannyāsī. Anyone who has got this consciousness that "It is my duty to serve Kṛṣṇa. I must serve Him with my life and soul and everything," he's a sannyāsī. Not the dress. So you are doing that. Now fix up. Go on doing this. Life is successful. That's all. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī. Find out this verse. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalam. It is so nice to work for Kṛṣṇa without any personal profit. This is Vṛndāvana. The gopīs, they sacrificed everything for Kṛṣṇa, their position, their honor, their prestige. So do like that. I am very glad to see when you work so hard for Kṛṣṇa. That gives me much pleasure.

Car Conversation -- February 5, 1977, Calcutta:

Jayapatākā: ...and you do little work and get more money. You can buy radio and tape recorder. And working in the field, that is not noble.

Prabhupāda: Just see how foolish leaders. In the field there is food. They will not work for the food. (break)

Jayapatākā: ...get a big staff after publishing our monthly magazine for some time. And I'm thinking we can... If there's... Like that editor of the Basumati, if they join us and help, we can bring a daily paper, and then these can be some of our...

Prabhupāda: If somebody came to see me, some editor...?

Jayapatākā: Yes. He wanted to... (break) ...the train station to catch the trains.

Prabhupāda: Going to Calcutta?

Jayapatākā: Most likely Calcutta and then different factories and workers. That Hitagar and Chamnagar and all those places.

Devotee: Calcutta. (end)

Room Conversation -- February 10, 1977, Mayapura:

Jayapatākā: And if we hear anything against your Divine Grace it is more painful than death for us.

Prabhupāda: They are very envious.

Jayapatākā: There's one good news, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Gargamuni called last night. Mahendra had informed him that we're going to have our 747 jumbo jet land in Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Jayapatākā: It will be the first commercial flight. They have 310 people coming on the flight.

Prabhupāda: So the government will receive.

Jayapatākā: Then the government will receive them. It will be publicized all over India.

Prabhupāda: Very good. When they are coming?

Jayapatākā: I'm going to call again today to find exact date. About 24th, 25th.

Prabhupāda: What is the date today?

Bhavānanda: 11th.

Room Conversation -- February 12, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: The municipal means public.

Jayapatākā: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So for public benefit why they shall not give?

Jayapatākā: Even that place at Calcutta, they never said it was illegal to give to us. They only said they didn't want to give. That Calcutta pukura, they never said it was illegal to give. So in this place, they said they want to give. So why they should...?

Prabhupāda: Where is illegality? For public, it is a historical place.

Jayapatākā: They might have come to see whether we would do... You have a light?

Prabhupāda: The light is outside. There is no lantern? No, one will do.

Jayapatākā: We never met this municipal executive. He might have just suggested that "Let's see if they'll do it without giving them."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jayapatākā: This municipal executive we didn't meet. He's just appointed by the government. He might have just suggested something like "Let's see if they'll do the work without us being very firmly obligated," Just testing us. Exactly what... But we can't do anything like that. But maybe that Gargamuni didn't understand their English very well, or they didn't...

Prabhupāda: So tomorrow you'll go to see whom?

Room Conversation -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. So we have got very good certification by the psychiatrist of Calcutta University. You have seen it?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think I've seen that yet.

Satsvarūpa: Dhīra Kṛṣṇa got a statement from the Brain Research Institute and said the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa is very good for the brain.

Hari-śauri: Brainwashing.

Prabhupāda: You have got that?

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Actually it is brainwash, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), but it is for the good. People are suffering with these dirty things within the brain. We are washing them. That is brainwash actually.

Satsvarūpa: "Indian Brain Research Association, Department of Biochemistry, University of Calcutta. Gentlemen: The Hare Kṛṣṇa kīrtana mantra used in meditation or chanting of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa has been practiced not only by the Vaiṣṇavas of India, but by most of the Hindus as a regular religious and social practice in Hindu families. Millions of Hindus practice with sublime devotion the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. We are not aware of any case where such practice has resulted in any detrimental effect to the health or mind of anyone. We can submit that the worshiping of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, as being practiced in West Bengal, India, does not differ from that of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra chanting of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. And as such, either of them cannot do any harm to the devotee or to the observer. Further we can add that the rhythmic dance and musical (Bengali:) svara in Hare Kṛṣṇa kīrtana mantra may have profound beneficial effect on a distorted human mind. These practices do not have any relation with brainwashing, although the word seems to carry no scientific meaning at all. Statement by Professor Ajit K. Mytee. Yours faithfully, J.J. Ghosh, President on behalf of the Indian Brain Research Association."

Prabhupāda: It is good certificate. And University of Calcutta. So you publish this.

Room Conversation -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, why? We must finish to the point. Then we can...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Otherwise we won't impress properly.

Brahmānanda: They're making it very beautifully. So if it's done...

Prabhupāda: He has done wonderful. There is no such temple, at least in Bombay. No, and in India.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When we took off in the Jumbo, or when we took off in the plane to Calcutta, we got a very clear vision of the whole temple complex. So if there's some sign put on the towers on the top, everyone from the plane will be able to read it. Hare Kṛṣṇa Land. Very prominent from the airplane. It stands out from all the other buildings because it's so big and very beautiful. Very nice. It is all your mercy, that building, Prabhupāda. It was up to us...

Prabhupāda: (laughs) My mercy or your mercy. You are all working. So anyway, this counter propaganda is doing good to us.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's making... Everyone in America now knows the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. Very prominent in America.

Prabhupāda: And New York temple is going nice?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think very nicely, yes.

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Bhavānanda: But now it's difficult to get.

Prabhupāda: Formerly they used to stock huge stock in Calcutta. Burma Sale. And new tin, if you exchange the container, then six annas less. Not very costly. Of course, in those days it was costly, taking consideration of the purchasing power of money. Four rupees, I remember, a few annas. My father did not like to purchase anything retail. For his daily necessity he'll purchase, he would purchase potato, one bag. So one bag means, maybe, one rupee, eight annas. (laughs) One anna per seer, kilo, I have purchased. Rice, fifteen mounds he will purchase. And what is the price? Three rupees, four annas. First-class rice. Coal, this coal, coke. Five annas per mound, purchase one cart load, fifteen mounds. The other day I was calculating. My father's income was, utmost, three hundred rupees per month in those days. And taking gold standard, my mother was purchasing gold from my cousin—he has gold shop-twenty rupees per tolā, first-class gold. Now it is six hundred rupees per tolā. (break) ...in those days thirty rupees per month. For thirty rupees, clerical staff, if you increase thirty times, how much it comes?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nine hundred.

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Brahmānanda: Yes. Before purchasing we went to see.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is aristocratic house. They... Formerly, either Indian or American, Europe, aristocratic was the same—big, big rooms, very decorated, woman's quarter different, men's quarter different. No man can enter into woman's... Lavatory house, different; cooking house, different. This was Calcutta aristocracy. Those houses are now gone. No attached bathroom. The... Because it was service, how it can be attached bathroom? So they... A separate house, big house, only for passing stool. And if possible, a lake within the house. Aristocratic family, they would have lake within the house for using water.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Only vaiśya community.

Prabhupāda: Some were, not all. And the Muhammadans, the could not convert any gentleman to Muhammadanism. Maybe one or two, say. Very... And similarly, Christian also. No high-class man became Christian. One or two. That is for some other purpose. Just like in Scottish Churches College, the Christian Indians were given more preference. There was one Mr. Raya. He would not speak in Bengali. Even if some Bengali student would like to talk with him Bengali, he would answer in English. (laughs) He was so sharp. (Bengali) (Hindi) You understand Hindi any of you? There is a song in the Howrah Bridge, pontoon bridge. So when this Howrah Bridge..., not this bridge. Up to 1900... When my daughter was married, in 1941, up to that time there was a bridge connecting Howrah and Calcutta, pontoon bridge. That we were seeing from childhood, from our birth. So this was an astonishment in India. They wrote song, (Hindi), that "How wonderful bridge this sāheb company...," because India was being governed by East Indian Company... After mutiny, Queen Victoria took charge. Otherwise the British government was known as Company Raja Sahib, East India Company. So the East India Company, they constructed this temple, er, bridge. So there is a song, (Hindi), like that. So this East India Company... Therefore this railway was known, "East India Railway." That is the first beginning of railway, from Calcutta to Burdwan, beginning of Ind... There was no railway in India.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So government has allowed.

Brahmānanda: Oh, yes. So they will make vodka here for exporting to Poland because the Polish people like vodka very much. So now they will produce in India.

Prabhupāda: The Polish Embassy is there near our Calcutta for seeing this business going on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Side by side, we are on the opposite business.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Things are deteriorating everywhere.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very quickly.

Prabhupāda: So this will give impetus to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7). Don't be disappointed. Kṛṣṇa will act through His movement and kill them, these demons. How it will be done, that you cannot know now, but it will be done. Let us remain true soldiers. That's all. And if it is a fight, suppose we die in the fight. The fight means with vow, with determination either to gain victory or die. Because it is fight against māyā, why we shall be afraid of being killed? Where there is fight, one must know that "Either I am going to be killed or gain victory." Jīvo vā māro vā. Those who are devotees, either they live or they die—the same thing. While they live they are serving Kṛṣṇa; when they die they will serve Kṛṣṇa. Jīvo vā māro vā. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). He goes to Kṛṣṇa. (laughs) So what is the loss? We are working for Kṛṣṇa, and if we die we go to Kṛṣṇa. So what is the loss? Same business.

Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ...etad anyathā ajñānam. Find out Bhagavad-gītā. This is knowledge. All other things are bogus. Otherwise how could I convince big, big scientists? They are not ordinary men, Doctor, that Svarūpa Dāmodara, one of the first-class scientists. He has got very good degree from Calcutta University, from other university, M.A.C. and other. He is very intelligent boy. He studies science very particularly, means sound knowledge. How he's attached?

Jayapatākā: This is real knowledge.

Prabhupāda: This is real knowledge. Hm.

Pradyumna: Whole thing read or just that, amānitvam adambhitvam?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Morning Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Very solid.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We should not sacrifice the quality.

Prabhupāda: No, no. We have appointed there first-class engi...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like I notice many modern, many newer buildings in India, because they are rushing the work it is not of the same quality. Just like Birla's. All of their homes are very fine. And also the Bangurs of Calcutta. Their homes... They take a lot of time that all the marble is made properly, everything. The walls are done nicely.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So let it be done like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Our members, they have discrimination. They can tell when something is done first class or not.

Prabhupāda: You have been in Vṛndāvana?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not yet. Last time was two years ago.

Prabhupāda: That building is also coming very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gurukula.

Prabhupāda: Gurukula. Very gorgeous and nice. And if there are gates and road in our name, (laughing) that will be unique in India. Then people will come to Vṛndāvana to see our... Nowadays also, they are coming to see our temple. Anyone who comes. That prasāda distribution is going on in the evening?

Devotee: Daily.

Morning Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Secret weapon, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So Jayapatākā has not returned?

Devotee: No. Not yet.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not as yet.

Prabhupāda: That will be very nice center, Panihati. Then we shall control the whole Ganges from Calcutta to Māyāpur. We'll have so many steamers. (laughs)

Hari-śauri: Steamers and ferries.

Prabhupāda: Yes. At least four steamers always plying from Calcutta to Māyāpur. Therefore I am after that center. It will be middle station. And you can go in this way, Rijay(?), by electricity. Go this side, that side, this side, that side.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everyone will take those steamers.

Prabhupāda: It will be very nice recreation also, to go by the steamer here, there.

Hari-śauri: Have kīrtana on board...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hawaii, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This Mr. Punja, I was talking with him. He had a... His suitcase was stolen in Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Suitcase stolen?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Calcutta at the... There's a big hotel at the airport, and he left his bags there, three bags. And when he came back, one of them was gone with all of his wife's jewelries. Hindustan Hotel, I think it's called. Yeah, Hindustan, that big airport hotel. When you go down to Māyāpur by that road there's a big hotel near the airport.

Prabhupāda: I do not remember, but may be.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So. Anyway, he's lodged a complaint with the Tea Board because he's a big tea importer, so he has connections. So he's lodged a complaint with the Tea Board. They're so dishonest. Even this is the five-star hotel. It's a big hotel in Calcutta, one of the two or three best, and they're so dishonest that as soon as a foreigner comes, they can figure out where the valuables are and they steal it. And most people will let them get away with it. He may not, because he's got so many connections. But it's so dishonest. Even they make an attempt to cultivate tourism and be professional but-spoiled.

Prabhupāda: Hotels are always unreliable. They have got duplicate key.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Indian man (3): Academically he's very highly qualified, academically.

Prabhupāda: How you know?

Indian man (3): Examiner of Ph.D. and P.R.S.

Prabhupāda: In Calcutta University?

Indian man (3): He was. I don't know...

Prabhupāda: When he was?

Indian man (3): Few years back.

Prabhupāda: Then why he is rejected?

Indian man (3): His terms has expired.

Prabhupāda: Their terms do not expire. Anyway, he has got Ph.D. in Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy, but he does not know Caitanya philosophy. Otherwise how he said that Jagabandhu is incarnation of Gaura-Nitāi? Or something like that, he said. He does not know. One who does not know what is Caitanya Mahāprabhu, how he gets his doctorate title on that philosophy? Even if he has got by some means, but where is the authority to prove that Jagabandhu is the combination of Gaura-Nitāi? No ācārya has said like that—Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura or Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, Viśvanātha Cakravartī. Where he got this bogus idea? Do you believe in that?

Evening Darsana -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Indian: Two annas, eight paisa.

Prabhupāda: Former paisa, when sixty-four paisa was one rupee. Now hundred equal to one. The purchasing power of money was big. Now thirty percent has gone up, but people's income has not gone up so much. Thirty percent, thirty times. Formerly gold was priced twenty rupees per tolā. Now it is six hundred rupees. So thirty times. But people have not increased their income thirty times. My father was earning two hundred fifty to three hundred per month. So we were middle class. So now thirty times of three hundred means nine thousand. So which middle-class man has increased so much? Middle class man now, if he's earning one thousand rupees he's considered very well-to-do. But what is that one thousand rupees? Nothing. My father had from one business, one hundred rupees, from another business sixty rupees, and we had a house rented, eighty rupees. Eighty rupees, sixty rupees and hundred rupees. How much? Two hundred forty, plus something more. Utmost, three hundred. And in our house four, five guests was always present. It didn't matter. Besides that, he was inviting some Vaiṣṇava, some sādhu. He married four daughters, and we were eating very sumptuously, daily two and half kg milk. Two annas per kg. Very nice milk. This man was coming from outside Calcutta. So we were so many children. We would stand, "Give some phāo:" Two half kg's milk and half kg phāo. He wouldn't mind.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is very good.

Ādi-keśava: So we were thinking that, and Bhavānanda Mahārāja and I were just speaking. He said one boy was in Calcutta at the visa office, and he was talking about all this business. And he said, at the visa office they also said, "Well, we could arrange to give you asylum." Just like Acyutānanda got, remember, for his draft.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ādi-keśava: So I was wondering if you think this is a good tactic.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, very good tactic.

Ādi-keśava: Because it makes big news.

Prabhupāda: If they give asylum in India, that is very good.

Hari-śauri: That means they can stay here, and do their devotional...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, tomorrow's program...

Prabhupāda: Hm. So Acyutānanda has come. You all sannyāsīs may, one or two, remain here. And kīrtana party-Acyutānanda, he has got minibus.

Bhavānanda: Yes, I was going to fill the bus and Your Divine Grace's car and one, Abhirāma's car. Jayapatākā Mahārāja is in Calcutta, and he's returning tomorrow morning, so he thought that he would stop in Chakdaha.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Bhavānanda: But we're very, very busy, Jayapatākā and I, because the festival is coming up. Would it be all right if I stayed back? I make all the arrangements, but stay behind to supervise it?

Prabhupāda: Yes, as you think best. (break) ...heavy duty, to fight with the demons. So on the whole, our book sale is hampered or not for this propaganda?

Tripurāri: I don't think so.

Prabhupāda: That is... Then it our triumph. You don't mind all this.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What about Los Angeles?

Prabhupāda: Anywhere. I told you that it must have been published.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. You can see that the Bombay newspaper is better than these Calcutta papers.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Certainly.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because the Calcutta paper has not yet carried it. It may be that Times of India has a relationship with some New York Times.

Prabhupāda: It is as good as The Statesman.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, it's actually more prominent than The Statesman, I think. Yeah. There's no mention. There's no mention in these other papers.

Prabhupāda: So you are also coming to Bombay?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I'm also thinking to go to Delhi to make that inner pass for possible visit to Manipur.

Prabhupāda: That may be suspended for the time.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That's good idea. Yes. So now organize things. My presence or no presence, we have got now a position. We have to push on this movement very cautiously.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Svarūpa Dāmodara Prabhu was mentioning that he met Upendra.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Where?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In the airport, Calcutta airport. He arrived last night, but somehow his luggage was left in Bombay airport. So the luggage is coming tonight at seven o'clock for Bombay-Calcutta flight, and he told me that he's coming after, a taxi. So he'll be arriving about nine o'clock tonight.

Prabhupāda: Oh. He has received that telegram.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Hawaii.

Prabhupāda: He is coming from Hawaii?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. (laughs)

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: All right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think we're doing all right.

Prabhupāda: He's enthusiastic.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. He's very anxious. I was even thinking of coming together, but I came by train from Calcutta, from Dum Dum station. But he told me that he has nothing. All the clothings and everything in that luggage. So he'll come.

Prabhupāda: Never mind. He shall come.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This letter written by him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says, "Dear Tamāla Kṛṣṇa, we received your telegram and acted immediately after confirming with Rāmeśvara." This is from Upendra.

Prabhupāda: Oh. "Unfortunately, after seven-hour stopover in Tokyo, they lost my reservations on my connecting flight. That, coupled with the fact that after arriving last night I find they've sent my belongings to Bombay, so I am waiting until the evening for the flight from Bombay when I get my trunk. I shall try to hire a taxi directly to Māyāpur. I would come now but I have absolutely no personal clothes or anything. Please tell Prabhupāda that I am due this evening. If not, then I shall ask the Calcutta devotees to care for my luggage and I'll proceed immediately."

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, there is no need of coming. We are going.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) It's hard to reach him. He's...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In the airport.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) ...stationed in the Calcutta airport.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You have quite a big entourage now.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Scientist...

Prabhupāda: But our most auspicious sign is this, "Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is bona fide religion."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is preceding your arrival in Bombay.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Daily. At least weekly twice. Sunday, Monday, we shall hold lectures and call all scholarly people to understand. Make it nicely.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh. We went a few days ago to Calcutta University to see the vice chancellor. Four of us went, the other two scientists and Ravīndra Svarūpa, and we talked with the inspector of schools, who came to visit here in Māyāpur about two months ago, and we discussed the possibility of getting affiliated in the Calcutta University, of giving some Ph.D. degrees in our philosophy. He indicated some ideas that it is possible, but he suggested that we must have a very good library.

Prabhupāda: That is the difficulty.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. They already said that two years ago.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They want us to buy so many nonsense books.

Prabhupāda: And nobody reads.

Arrival of Devotees -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Oh, then two...

Gargamuni: And he said, "It is thanks to your society that this is landing now." He thanked us.

Rāmeśvara: Some reporters were also speaking with me at the airport, and I told them, "Don't think that Air India can bring planeloads of people to Bengal. Don't think that they can attract people to land in Calcutta. But only because of Lord Caitanya, we are making so much propaganda that by the planeload they want to come to Bengal." He was writing these notes. The whole credit goes to Lord Caitanya, we were saying.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Otherwise no one would want to come.

Prabhupāda: So? What other news?

Rādhā-vallabha: We have the figures for the production of your books in every single language since the beginning, twenty-three languages.

Rāmeśvara: This took several weeks of very careful work to prepare. We were calling up printers... We threatened Dai Nippon, they must give us the figures. We called up every BBT office around the world, so this is very accurate. And also I estimate that at least ninety to ninety-five percent of all these literatures that have been published have already been distributed. These are the figures for publishing, but most of them have been sold already.

Rādhā-vallabha: So English is first. 43,450,500 literatures. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Where is such publisher?

Arrival of Devotees -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Rādhā-vallabha: In the exhibit there is a framed picture, each language and the books, each title, and then there is one big frame, one showing international.

Prabhupāda: This is the blessing of my Guru Mahārāja. He wanted it. And because we are trying to do this, he is giving us all blessings. He told me personally, "I wanted to sell this marble and publish some books." Calcutta, that Gauḍīya Maṭha is also marble floor. Now, he said that "Since this temple has been given by Mr. Datta, our men are fighting, 'Which room I shall occupy?' So I know there will be blazing fire here. So before that, I wanted to get out this marble and sell it and turn into some books." He told me, like that. So I noted down that, that he wants books. So I tried to do that. That's all.

Arrival of Devotees -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And you did not send to the reporters and the...? No.

Hari-śauri: Did you give these figures to the reporters at the airport?

Rāmeśvara: Well, we want to have a press conference tomorrow.

Gargamuni: We're going to have... At the Calcutta Book Fair we finished decorating our pandal. It promises to be very successful. We're just opposite the Americans, who have spent fifty thousand rupees, the American Embassy. And next door to us is the German Embassy, and on the other side is the British Embassy. So we're in a very good spot, and we'll have all our books. We'll have the displays as well as the movie, the BBT movie, and we have our men there, who will take orders and sell books. It starts tomorrow afternoon. And we'll have a press conference also and release these figures.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Room Conversation -- February 27, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have no objection. Okay. So as far as the... We want them, I think. If they don't remain here, then what is the use of opening account?

Prabhupāda: Yes. yes. Camak Street, I have got already account.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Now so far as the elmira goes, I discussed with them. So their understanding was that once they open their actual branch, they're going to be purchasing all their furniture in Calcutta and bringing it here. So they're just temporarily using it.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we don't want to charge them, I don't think.

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Let me first ask them, before you sign this, whether they'll keep it open, because if they're going to close it now, there's no use in signing it.

Prabhupāda: No. Because in Calcutta I have got already.

Room Conversation -- February 27, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. This system is not good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So they have permission from the Reserve Bank to keep this extension open up to one month. I asked him, "How long will it take until you get the actual branch?" They said, "Somewhere between one and two months." So if we open an account, it's guaranteed that you will be able to draw money here up to one month's time. By then, either they'll open the branch, and if they don't, then whatever funds you have here will be transferred to your Calcutta account. And as soon as the branch is open, they will immediately transfer back here as account number one.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. All right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So this requires your signature and an initial deposit has to be made to open it.

Prabhupāda: So I shall do it. I'm talking with him.

Room Conversation -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Hari-śauri: At least he reported to Gargamuni that the prospect was good.

Prabhupāda: No. Gargamuni did not say anything.

Hari-śauri: Well, he remained in Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: No, no, he came here, but he did not say.

Hari-śauri: Who did Gargamuni speak to?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He spoke to me. He said, "Yes, but they have not yet got the permit."

Prabhupāda: That means there is no hope.

Room Conversation -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That was also from France.

Hari-śauri: You've seen the blue onionskin. This is white.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have now blue and white. Bhagavān brought me the rest of it, brought the rest of it here, lot of it. It's very high class with gold letters. Really nice.

Hari-śauri: Envelopes too?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Envelopes also. The whole thing. It's good because we're running short. You want me to start using that new type of letterhead that Bhagavān has brought? Should I start using it?

Prabhupāda: Nei, so long you have got old stock, finish.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Finish. There's a lot of that.

Hari-śauri: There's quite a stock left in Calcutta yet.

Prabhupāda: In special case you can use.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right. (end)

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But if you were to go to Manipur we have to make arrangements.

Prabhupāda: We can go from Bombay. What is the difficulty? From here or Bombay, after all, we have to go by plane, so there is no difficulty. Manipur going, there is no direct plane from Bombay to Manipur?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. From Bombay to Calcutta, Calcutta to Imphala, Manipur.

Prabhupāda: So that is not difficult. We can come to Calcutta and go to Calcutta, there. But if you organize Bombay center, recruit scientists, hold meeting, that is very nice proposal. There must be some state, ideal state. Just like the Russia is Communist state, and they're making nice propaganda, similarly we must have a Kṛṣṇa conscious state. What do you think?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is example.

Rūpānuga: A good example is needed. A good example.

Prabhupāda: Either Manipur, anywhere. but we must have now a Kṛṣṇa conscious state. And we shall show how ideal state, wherever it is possible. I am not speaking particularly of Manipur, but Manipur, there is good chance. But we must have a Kṛṣṇa conscious state. So go. Take prasādam.

Room Conversation -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: When it is going to be held again?

Hṛdayānanda: Yes. We just stopped for lunch break, and then, after lunch, again, around two o'clock.

Prabhupāda: So you attend?

Gargamuni: Yes, I'll attend. I just wanted to stay in Calcutta a few days to...

Prabhupāda: Pick up some fight. (laughs) There was no fight?

Hṛdayānanda: Just little fight.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Don't fight. Then everything will be spoiled.

Hṛdayānanda: Not very much fight this time. It was much more peaceful than before.

Prabhupāda: (chuckling) Yes. For Kṛṣṇa's business why there should be...? Even there is fight it should be mock fight, not real fight. Then it is right.

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Gargamuni: He's Indian, so they are not so... He is an American, so there's nothing much he can do. But as an Indian, there's great friendship between Russian... They came to our stall in Calcutta and bought books. And they bought one poster of rāsa-līlā. So with India they are very friendly.

Harikeśa: It's simply meant that there's a certain amount of prerequisite knowledge one has to know before he goes into a communist country.

Prabhupāda: No, another thing is that BBT you are keeping, a separate organization. So if the BBT representative goes somewhere, so why he should be restricted?

Harikeśa: Well, for example he went to visit the two devotees we have in Moscow, and a KGB man followed him up to the door and he tried to lose him. It was a whole thing. It seemed very risky for the people.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, the two devotee... We have one devotee, and with him I did so much preaching, so the KGB man, the Russian spy...

Prabhupāda: KGB? What is that?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the Russian spy.

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That's very good. (laughter) I asked him to do this last year. Very good.

Satsvarūpa: India was broadly divided, the same as it is now, of Gopāla Kṛṣṇa to do the north and west, Gargamuni Mahārāja to do the east-Calcutta, Māyāpur. And in that connection we resolved that Śatadhanya Mahārāja should take responsibility for being president of Calcutta and Panihati.

Prabhupāda: Why two?

Gargamuni: Panihati is very near to...

Prabhupāda: No, no, Panihati he can take, but why Calcutta?

Gargamuni: Because for maintenance sake, Panihati and Calcutta is the same place for collecting funds.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Gargamuni: It's a factory area...

Prabhupāda: No, no, and our Abhirāma is doing in Calcutta.

Gargamuni: Well, actually he doesn't stay in Calcutta, and the...

Rāmeśvara: We were informed that he does not want to remain as president.

Prabhupāda: So that will be decided in the president's meeting?

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So that will be decided in the president's meeting?

Rāmeśvara: Better make a note, Satsvarūpa.

Hṛdayānanda: It was stated that most of the time he is not in Calcutta, and that the main purpose of Calcutta is to make life members, but this year he has not made a single life member.

Gargamuni: He's generally engaged in export of the cloth of Māyāpur and business work, which actually he's more suitable for, whereas Śatadhanya...

Prabhupāda: So you have all agreed?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. If you have agreed, I have no objection.

Rāmeśvara: We didn't discuss it with him, though, to see what his personal feeling...

Prabhupāda: So do. So do that. Do that.

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Jaya.

Jayapatākā: Śrīla Prabhupāda? My mother left this morning, and she wrote a letter to you. I'd like you... If I could read it... "Śrīla Prabhupāda: I am sorry to hear of your illness. Jayapatākā tells me swift changes in temperature cause many illnesses in Māyāpur. A place so beautiful must have its thorns. May your recovery be soon. It was auspicious for me to have met you. Not having seen my son for so long, finding him in the midst of God's blessings at ISKCON with a spiritual master of such great repute was humbling in its magnitude. Perhaps in some small measure I can help parents understand what their children are into and weaken their weapons. This visit will be shared with others. It was propitiously enjoyable. As far as fund-raising, there is a seminar on new methods I am trying to get to, but Kṛṣṇa seems to be pulling me back. Perhaps tomorrow I will be able to go to Calcutta and Delhi. I will be corresponding regularly with Jayapatākā. In a few months I plan to move to California. You have taken good care of my son. You have brainwashed the cobwebs of materialism (laughter) and elevated his soul. Your goodness radiates to all who meet you. May God bless your body with good health. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jayapatākā's Ma."

Devotees: Haribol!

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees:Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Jaya.

Pañcadraviḍa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? I talked to... What's his name? Pañca-ratna. And he told me that they ordered everything to prepare khicuṛi, vegetable, sweet rice and tomato chutney for tomorrow.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (1): But that all has vanished now. That plan has failed now completely.

Prabhupāda: Not failed. Another man will come. Because the unemployment is there. Practically, when we were boys, children, we were purchasing mustard oil, eight annas for two-half, two-half only, kilo, first-class. In Calcutta, Kanpur mustard oil. So my father would give me eight annas. I shall go to the shop and purchase. Now that quality, even taking it..., he's now selling thirteen rupees per kilo. Will the change of government bring this thirteen rupees to three annas? Then what is the benefit? The same stool, this side or that side. People are not going to get any relief by this change of government. So we are not concerned about thirteen rupees or three annas or... Some way or other, people are getting their things. That's all right. But the real loss is to remain in animal mentality and forget the aim of life. That is the real loss. Kṛṣṇa says plainly,

aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā
dharmasyāsya parantapa
aprāpya māṁ nivartante
mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani
(BG 9.3)

"This Bhagavad-gītā what I am speaking, if one is not interested to hear it or to take it, then result will be he'll not get Me." "So what is loss if I don't get You?" No, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani: "Then go again to the cycle of birth and death." That's it. That is nature's law. If my next life I become a worm, then it will take millions of years to evolve, again come to the human standard. How I am lost. That they do not know. It is clearly said. Mām aprāpya: "By not getting Me." "So what is loss if I don't get Kṛṣṇa?" No, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. That you cannot check. You have to die. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to accept another body. Then you go on. Why this human form of life should be lost in this way? So at least to try to give this knowledge to the people in general is para-upakāra. This is para-upakāra. And that is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's gift. India can especially do it.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I find Bombay people are a little bit more open-minded.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Bombay is the best city in India, undoubtedly. From the very beginning, and the richest city. The government revenue is collected from Bombay sixty-three percent. Bombay is so rich. Sixty-three percent from Bombay and thirty-seven percent from whole of India. That is the position.

Śrīdhara: Calcutta is also very wealthy.

Prabhupāda: No.

Girirāja: They keep the money in black.

Śrīdhara: Oh, in black money.

Prabhupāda: And religiously-minded.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, I find almost everybody appreciates Śrīla Prabhupāda so much, especially in Bombay. Anybody who knows about Śrīla Prabhupāda, they highly appreciate, especially these scholars. But in Delhi it is very different. People are very close-minded.

Prabhupāda: And government servant. After all, they are servants. In Bombay, they are in big, big business. They are limited. The government servants, they are limited. They are important so long they are on the post. Otherwise, they have no importance.

Room Conversation First Day in Juhu Quarters -- March 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Sincerity, people see, the audience. That makes very genuine.

Gargamuni: We once went to see one caitanya-līlā in Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Oh!

Gargamuni: They were no good.

Prabhupāda: That is third class. Our caitanya-līlā was played by all the young men of aristocratic Mulliks, Sils,(?) all millionaires.

Gargamuni: Nowadays it is not done.

Prabhupāda: That was the point he stressed, that "You are from the selected aristocratic family of Calcutta. You shall play, and the public theater is also playing. What should be the difference?" That was his point. So that he gave us. They were so gorgeously played. And we received so many invitations: "Please come and play in our house." Polish is all right?

Room Conversation -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They come to see the painting.

Dhanañjaya: They come to see everything—the painting, the way the Deities are dressed. Now we are offering many sets of clothing for the Deities. We have offered already four sets of new clothing to the Deities. And everyone comes to see the beauty of the arrangement in the temple. The clothing and the painting. Everything is improving so nicely. They are becoming....

Prabhupāda: If you become nice devotee, everything will be improved. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). The more you increase your devotional service, everything will be increased. Who expected such temple here? You wanted from me fourteen lakhs. I had no fourteen hundred even. With so much difficulty we collected the money. Bali-mardana sent from New York, ten lakhs. Girirāja, you were from the very beginning, no? At that time you were in Calcutta.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Gargamuni: I just returned from Calcutta, and they are expecting you to arrive tomorrow morning by plane.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Gargamuni: In Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Gargamuni: Because they said that when you left Calcutta that you would come back within two weeks, on April 4th, to Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Well, because I was going to Manipur.

Gargamuni: So I told them that as far as I know there was no plan of Your Divine Grace...

Prabhupāda: No, because Manipur has not supplied. Otherwise, it was program that I shall come back, and after I shall go to Manipur.

Gargamuni: And Upendra is there, so I told him that he should come. Jayapatākā said that the government has approved in principle of the land acquisitions. They would acquire land slowly.

Prabhupāda: That doesn't matter.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: We wanted some.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said he wanted some hundred copies.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, those were the American. But now we are doing the Indian version, which is costing us 30 paisa each. So that we can give away to anyone who writes in. So I am going to send them. But he says many inquiries are pouring in. And when I was in Calcutta three weeks ago I saw him in his office. He showed me letters. They are coming from all over east India, from Orissa, from Cuttack, about our books. During the month of March, BBT India distributed over about fifty thousand pieces of books and magazines, to the temples, libraries, everything included. Fifty thousand pieces of books.

Prabhupāda: I have asked already Tamāla Kṛṣṇa. Can you give me a statement of the account?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. It's ready.

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: His wife is also nice, but when they are combined together, they become little spoiled. He becomes little lusty. That is his wife's complaint. I got them married in San Francisco. (pause) So you can give another letter to the manager, Bank, "You take eighty thousand from current account and twenty thousand is coming from Calcutta. Both together, you make one M.M.D., M.M.D.A."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For seven years.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, I've already typed that letter for eighty thousand, so I can add an N.B., that an additional twenty thousand is coming from Calcutta, and as soon as it comes...

Prabhupāda: Yes, you advise to Bombay, advise him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Should I enclose a copy of the letter to Calcutta also?

Prabhupāda: Hm. Not that... Letter written to Calcutta, that copy should be enclosed to the...

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Another rascal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "He said that industry must rest on a secure foundation and a healthy land-man relationship. It cannot rest where man owns thousands of acres of land and villages, but stays in Calcutta or Patna and is only interested in collecting money."

Prabhupāda: That I say always. Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: We have already seen the defect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading:) "Baboons imported for FP vaccine trials. Twenty-five baboons have been specifically imported from Africa for crucial experiments with the birth control vaccine developed three years ago at the All-India Institute of Medical Sciences. The five male and twenty female baboons which came two months ago are kept in the institute's animal house for use in trials before the vaccine could be cleared for use on women." About anti-pregnancy vaccine. "The baboons will be used in the experiments to find out if the sterility induced by the vaccine is reversible and whether the baby baboons, born after such reversal, are normal both mentally and physically."

Prabhupāda: Abnormal. (laughs)

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: At this time, in other parts of India it is very hot.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: April, very hot. Actually, I'm pretty...

Prabhupāda: Except in Calcutta.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really? Calcutta was quite hot when we were there. Remember coming from Māyāpur?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But it's cool.

Prabhupāda: Calcutta and Bengal has got a facility. Every evening there is a small shower of rain. That keeps the temperature mild. During this April-May, you will find every evening there is a thunderstorm and little shower. That is in Bengal's special... A good wind will come. Sometimes it is cyclonic. And immediately the whole atmosphere will be reduced temperature. Sometimes in U.P. also.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hm. Thank you. (Bengali)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I came yesterday from Manipur, er, from Calcutta, came day before yesterday. I stayed one night in Calcutta. The temple is nice. They have a smaller number of devotees in Calcutta now, but it's very conducive, very cooperative, so the atmosphere was very nice. I gave a lecture.

Prabhupāda: That is all right. Small number is all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śatadhanya Mahārāja is the in-charge there.

Prabhupāda: Simply congestion is no good. So you are going to Karttikeya's house?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Hm?

Prabhupāda: Karttikeya's house?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, today. They came yesterday. He's very learned, and he had a number of degrees.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How many degrees did he have?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He said he had, honorary, about some fourteen, fifteen Ph.D. degrees.

Prabhupāda: Ph.D. Genuine?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Some are honorary, but he is from Oxford and Cambridge, very renowned scholar.

Mādhava: He's a chemist.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That will be little impressive.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So he agreed or not?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I'm going to request him today. I made a little preaching in Manipur. I took a Fairchild, our movies, all the Hare Kṛṣṇa movies, from Calcutta. I borrowed for a week.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He took that little Fairchild projector.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Took the projector. And it has been raining so much, from Calcutta, Assam, and Manipur, it's almost flooded for the last three weeks, almost continuous rain.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Looks like the rainy season has come, but very untimely, a little too early. But it has been almost flooded.

Prabhupāda: It is cool now.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. But now the rain has subsided now. It's very cool. Calcutta was very pleasant. It's very comfortable. (laughs) And Manipur is especially nice because...

Prabhupāda: It is good that so much rain has fallen.

Morning Conversation -- April 29, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is also not difficult.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But why should you take that risk?

Prabhupāda: No, I shall not. I fell down...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I know, in Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: ...in Calcutta. That is bathroom, very slippery. Anyway, why shall I take the risk?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we don't want that.

Prabhupāda: So hold meeting daily and chalk out program. Do very diligently everything so I can see that things are going on nicely without my managerial interference. That will make me happy. And I'll go on writing. There is... (pause) You are feeling all right?

Upendra: Yes, Prabhupāda. I was just thinking of... When you were speaking about not eating... We take pleasure in watching you eat. It is our pleasure to see you eat and enjoy the prasādam. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...mentally to keep the brain, little fruit, milk, is sufficient. So I may live only on fruit or milk. There is no difficulty. What is the use of taking cāpāṭis and rice?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of course, when you have a taste for it, then you should take.

Room Conversation -- May 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Timiṅgila.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: In the ocean there are fishes. You cannot see them. Big fishes: (makes gulping sound). From the skeleton I saw in Calcutta Museum...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whale skeleton?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whales.

Prabhupāda: Whale or some fish skeleton. As big as this room, it was hanging. I think it is there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, in the Museum of Natural History in New York they have a whale that is at least twice the length of this room.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: "I am sādhu. I am the leader of the, this society. And the animal-killing is going on. I don't care for it." Suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānām. So titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ suhṛdaḥ sarva... These are the qualities. And ultimately, summary, sādhu is spoken by Kṛṣṇa Himself that bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ: (BG 9.30) "One who has no other business than to execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is sādhu." "Well, he is a foreigner. He is not brāhmaṇa. He is accustomed to so many habits." Sādhu is always in good habit. But due to past practice, sometimes we may see some discrepancy. You can find out some fault. But Kṛṣṇa says that "Never mind there is some fault. Still, he is sādhu." "Why?" Now bhajate mām ananya-bhāk: "He has taken Me as everything." So sādhu descriptions are there. Sādhavaḥ sādhu-bhūṣaṇaḥ. A sādhu means ultimately bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. So tīrtha-sthāna, one should try to associate with sādhus. This is the purpose to go to the tīrtha-sthāna. Otherwise, if you simply go to the tīrtha-sthāna and take bath in the Ganges and Yamunā, and if you think, "My business is finished..." Everywhere, all tīrtha-sthāna... In Gayā-actually, begins from Gayā—there is Phalgu River. Then Benares, there is Ganges. Then there is Prayāga. There is also Ganges, Yamunā. Then go to Mathurā, Vṛndāvana. Everywhere there is the sacred river. So if we simply think that going to the holy place and taking bath... In Kali-yuga it is general hobby. Dūre parjakanam(?) tīrtham. In Calcutta there is Ganges, but...

Indian man (1): They will come here.

Prabhupāda: They will come here.

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Do this seriously.

Jayapatākā: Because the secretary and the president of Gauḍīya Maṭha, Dacca, are coming June 4th to Calcutta, so it's better that I'm here to meet them to make sure that the... Because that's the best place that we've seen in whole Bangladesh. We've been offered places in Comilla, Chittagong, in Barisal. Everywhere we've been offered places, but that seems to be the best place. That's also Bhaktisiddhānta's place.

Prabhupāda: So why don't you see the donor of that place? I gave the address.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To Prabhaviṣṇu.

Jayapatākā: I don't think he's seen him. Now the main manager has been handed authority. We've seen him. He's also favorable. But the people who are holding the main power, they are also favorable, so they've given us. Good facility for boat program. I went to a village by boat one day, and the villagers, they were very receptive also. They held a whole festival. Everyone, five hundred people, stopped their work, and they all came and chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa, and we cooked a big pot of... Official(?) said, "Everyone has provided ḍāl and rice. We don't eat at home today." And he cooked up khicuḍi and we gave everyone prasāda. And they said, "Please, if you could come every two weeks or every month, we could have a festival."

Prabhupāda: Naturally so much good reception... So organize. These people will not give.

Jayapatākā: Who?

Prabhupāda: These rascals, Gauḍīya Maṭha.

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: So... But we've been offered in Narayanganj and many places nearby. Even Dacca we can get some place. People are...

Prabhupāda: One gentleman, he has now become my disciple.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mr. Sindh. That jeweler from Calcutta?

Jayapatākā: He's given (indistinct) me.

Prabhupāda: They are very rich man, that Singh jeweler. They can give. He is very nice man, very nice man and very well-to-do. You have seen them?

Jayapatākā: Yes, before I went I saw him, and he gave me three or four names of very wealthy people in Bangladesh to see, and those people are also... One person already became a member, and they'll give us much support.

Prabhupāda: No, you'll get.

Jayapatākā: There are so many. They're scattered about. I couldn't see all the different people in a short period. It's a big place.

Prabhupāda: And whole Bangladesh is a picture.

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What about my house?

Bhavānanda: That money has just been received, and the plans have arrived from Delhi, but we are wanting an architect in Calcutta, competent architect to... Because we don't want to have anything go wrong in the middle. Ram Nrisinghatar(?) was saying that Mistri is interested in doing Prabhupāda's house. The house and gorgeous garden we have, with fountains and terraces and walkways, all around, before and behind the house, on either side, all enclosed and private.

Prabhupāda: Not yet begun?

Jayapatākā: They say there's no... Because we've just received the plan now from Saurabh, so the architect said there's no difficulty. Now he thinks we can begin right through the rainy season. We can work through the rainy season. There's no difficulty for that. If it was a big building, then in the rainy season we could not build.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How long it will take?

Bhavānanda: Six months.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By October, November.

Jayapatākā: (aside, discussion with Bhavānanda about building)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, I think you are tied to this planet by the love of your devotees.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Among few, Rāmeśvara will be printed in(?). Anyway, do your best. Otherwise there is a very big undercurrent. They are looking for the opportunity. (pause) They want some money first.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So he's going to go to Allahabad after two weeks. (pause)

Prabhupāda: No, don't waste time, a single moment. Very cautiously, intelligently work. (break) Mr. Sharma in Calcutta, I was guest in his house for some time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Veni Shankar Sharma.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Formerly he was an M.P. He's a lawyer also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I think he can write.

Bhavānanda: He was out in Māyāpur about one month back.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Then you shall benefit. Gargamuni knows him. Make this.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhavānanda knows him. Jayapatākā too.

Prabhupāda: He is nice man. Each property, trustee.

Morning Conversation -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: Would you like to have kīrtana now?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...come directly, brāhmaṇas sometimes brahmacārī, gṛhastha. That will impress. (break) ...hodgepodge. Respect is no. Ideals become a leader. He'll do. He'll do. There must be some strong men. Tilaka always must be there. That is our great standard. Kaṇṭhī-mālā. Every fifteen days you should be cleansed. (break) (indistinct) Don't be in all this (indistinct). Go on very nicely. Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Prabhu Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita Gadādhara Śrīvāsa... (break)

Gargamuni: Well, we only printed two Oriya books. Both were printed in Calcutta so far, because there's one Oriya printer there. Gaura-Govinda Mahārāja is investigating completely the... We went around investigating the presses in Cuttack and Bhuvaneśvara, if we might get some cheaper or easier price. It appears that some things we can do cheaper there, like the inside part, but cover cannot do cheaper there.

Prabhupāda: Cover you can get there, cover.

Gargamuni: In Bombay we might be able to do cover much cheaper and then the inside cheaper in Orissa. That we have...

Prabhupāda: Better quality also.

Gargamuni: It is good quality, similar quality. They agreed, they could get same paper as we had in previous books, but for printing cover that would be very difficult.

Prabhupāda: And tell, we can get from Bombay cover.

Discussions -- June 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm, yes.

Girirāja: "The system of management will continue as it is now. There is no need of any change. 3. The property in India will be managed by the following committee members: A. Properties at Śrī Māyāpur Dhāma, Panihati, Haridaspur, and Calcutta-Gurukṛpā Swami, Jayapatākā Swami, Bhavānanda Goswami, and Gopāla Kṛṣṇa dāsa Adhikārī; B. At Vṛndāvana-Gurukṛpā Swami, Akṣayānanda Swami, and Gopāla Kṛṣṇa dāsa Adhikārī; C. At Bombay-Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami, Girirāja dāsa Brahmacārī, and Gopāla Kṛṣṇa dāsa Adhikārī; D. At Bhuvaneśvara-Gaura-Govinda Swami, Jayapatākā Swami and Bhāgavata dāsa Brahmacārī; E. At Hyderabad-Mahāṁśa Swami, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa dāsa Adhikārī, and Bali-mardana dāsa Adhikārī."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Śrīdhara.

Girirāja: "And Śrīdhara Goswami. The committee members who have herein been designated are appointed for life. In the event of the death or failure to act for any reason of any of the said committee members, a successor committee member or committee members may be appointed by the remaining committee members, provided that the new committee member is an initiated disciple and following strictly all the rules and regulations of ISKCON as detailed in the books of His Divine Grace..." Oh. "...detailed in my books, and provided that there are never less than three or more than five committee members acting at one time. 4. I have created, developed and organized the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, and as such, I hereby will that none of the immovable properties in India in the name of ISKCON shall ever be mortgaged, borrowed against..."

Prabhupāda: Why India? Everywhere. Everywhere.

Discussions -- June 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Loan, that's all right. Whatever loan you have, let us see how you are paying.

Rāmeśvara: He is already paying the money back to an account that has been set up with him and Gopāla in Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: How much he has returned?

Rāmeśvara: How much have you paid back originally?

Jayapatākā: Only one payment has come through. I paid the first thing.

Rāmeśvara: No, no, no, of the seventy thousand.

Jayapatākā: No. Seventy thousand? We have no debt with BBT. We're paid up.

Rāmeśvara: How much have you paid so far?

Jayapatākā: Since April I've paid twenty-one thousand.

Rāmeśvara: He's already paid twenty-one thousand rupees of it back.

Prabhupāda: So you can take fifty thousand also. If they have returned twenty-one thousand, you can pay fifty thousand, loan more.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We can pay fifty thousand...?

Rāmeśvara: He'll take a loan.

Prabhupāda: Give and take, give and take, give and take.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...Calcutta yesterday all day. I was stranded for several hours.

Prabhupāda: So this can be given to the Deities, these flowers.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're very nice. Are they scented?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Some... We have another one. It has 108 petals exactly. It's white when full bloomed. Just started, this monsoon. The full season will come sometime in August, August and September. Lotus are everywhere, these flowers, on either side of the road, and all lakes full of lotuses.

Prabhupāda: Pineapple, your country is famous for pineapple.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Pineapple is very sweet. This is another season, but in about three weeks the larger variety will come. This is a little smaller type. The bigger ones, big. And it is green outside, but it's very sweet, full of juice. The hillsides all covered with pineapples, and it's very cheap.

Prabhupāda: So Calcutta, there was rain.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. The farming is very good this time in our side, Bengal and Assam and Manipur, so much rain from the south. And I saw from the plane that everything is already green.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Why you are breathing? Is it necessary? (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But he doesn't want to speak.

Prabhupāda: You have asked him already?

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: We know.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. And he actually was very interested, and he told me to write about Mandeha(?), the director, so that they can make arrangements and so we can speak. So I just had few hours, and I wanted to go to the Indian school for experimental medicine that is in Jadavpur. I know the director. The director is from Calcutta University, and I just about to see him, but I couldn't see him. I didn't have the time. But we have, I think, plenty of scope, doing these things on a wider scale.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And I also published this little concept about what these, all these lectures is about. So it says, "Announcing a worldwide lecture tour on the origin of life and matter, sponsored by Bhaktivedanta Institute for Higher Studies, Founder-Ācārya His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda." And then I give a whole series from here to here, and I also give the topics and...

Prabhupāda: Very nice.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So like to hear a little bit?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (Svarūpa Dāmodara reads pamphlet announcing worldwide lecture tour of Bhaktivedanta Institute) All glories to Svarūpa Dāmodara.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just explain this.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The other day, when I went from Delhi to Calcutta in the plane, I happened to see that Dr. Chatterjee from Calcutta University. She's a lady, woman, but she's very well known. International scientist she has become. Her name is Asina Chatterjee. And I never saw here, though I was studying side by side in the next building, in Calcutta University. She discovered some drug. That's why she became famous. And she's also a member of Council of Scientific and Industrial Research all over India, and also a member of University Grants Commission. So she told me that she went for a meeting to attend in Delhi, and there was also an engineer who was sitting in between me and her, and I was discussing about our plan for scientific conference on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He was also Bengali from Calcutta. Somehow she became very interested. I was explaining how scientists misleading, thinking that life can be chemical. And I was describing about how life can be nonchemical and nonphysical. So Chatterjee immediately joined the talk. And I immediately recognized that she must be Chatterjee. So I asked her, "Are you Dr. Chatterjee?" I never saw her before, but I just guessed right. She was Dr. Asina Chatterjee. And she became very interested in the talk, and then she was completely agreeing to our discussion that life is something spiritual, beyond physics and chemistry. So she actually invited me to come and give a talk in chemistry department Calcutta University. So I said that we are coming back with our scientific group from Kṛṣṇa consciousness and would like to present the philosophy in that chemistry department. So like that, there are many...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Recruit them, at least some.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...and prostitutes. So...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, it's even mentioned in the Kṛṣṇa book. Prostitutes came out of Dvārakā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In Calcutta in our childhood I have seen many big, big prostitutes, Vaiṣṇavī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really?

Prabhupāda: All, their behavior, their living... Simply they were not married. They were kept by some big men. Otherwise everything was so nice. Big, big prostitutes.

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: There was a big temple of prostitutes in Calcutta, Kach-Kamil.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kach...?

Prabhupāda: Kach-Kamil. Kach-Kamil means the gentleman who kept her, he was a big glass merchant. So the temple was decorated with mirrors and glass, and her name was Kamil, so Kach-Kamil temple. Still there are. Everyone was Kṛṣṇa conscious, either poor man, retired man or prostitute or gentleman or rich man—everyone. The society itself was Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He couldn't do it.

Prabhupāda: This idea, that "My son should be B.A., M.A., Ph.D.," it is wrong idea. Why? What is there, Ph.D.'s? First of all one must earn. Self-preservation is the first law of... But not... The Marwaris used to do that in Calcutta. Many pakorā. No business—he was frying pakorā and selling. Why unemployment? This is disastrous, unemployment. As soon as there is unemployment, there are so many devils. They'll plan. And the first plan will come-wine and woman. So we want to save the society from this downfall. At least keep one ideal. And that is our mission. Otherwise there was no nece... But at the present moment they cannot take so much trouble. We are trying to give them as much as possible comfortable life, but become an ideal vidvān and bhaktimān. That is required. Otherwise it is animal society. Prime Minister's son is a debauch, rogue, thief. They are not ashamed even. And people are adoring him: "O Sanjay, you are Indira Gandhi's son. I take your blessing." Doing practically. He was very much anxious to see Sanjay Gandhi. So what did I say?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You said not to waste time with these...

Talk About Varnasrama, S.B. 2.1.1-5 -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means the husband is irresponsible. That means the man is irresponsible, to let his wife do that. And they let their unmarried daughters do.

Prabhupāda: And woman left alone means prostitution.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what's going on now in Bombay, Calcutta. The men send their unmarried daughters to become secretary. She must be... And even before that, they go to college, freely mixing with the men.

Prabhupāda: As soon as they allow young girl to mix with young boys—finished.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This coeducation is very bad.

Prabhupāda: And in the Western countries it is openly allowed, dating. "Please learn this art." (pause) And if you keep woman chaste, then nice children will come, no hippies.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, just like that boy, Dapni, Dapni's(?) grandson. Nice boy.

Prabhupāda: That's it. And if nice children are there in the society, they will become responsible men. Then there will be no disturbance in the society. Everything will go on smoothly. Brāhmaṇa is acting as brāhmaṇa; kṣatriya is acting as... They are both... No quarrel. No animosity. Everyone is cooperating with one another. The whole society becomes peaceful. Family becomes peaceful. The man personally becomes peaceful. Then he will be able to make progress. Kutaḥ śānti ayuktasya. If you are not peaceful, how you can attain? Or if you are not a devotee, you cannot be peaceful.

Talk About Varnasrama, S.B. 2.1.1-5 -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And they make general houses in such a way that you get a room and there is everything, arrangement. There is howah(?). You don't require to cook. You take food from the howah(?). Very nice food. You pay just like a small hotel. They... All their business family... You see. You have seen Calcutta Birla house.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah.

Prabhupāda: They occupy only one room. Their everything is like that. Pay for. There is no botheration of cooking or purchasing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You mean, different families occupy one room only?

Prabhupāda: Well, different family, different room, but they can live very humbly. Those who have little income, they'll somehow or other take one room, live in. And in that house, everything is there. You can purchase. And you earn money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes you see a very wealthy may living in only two, three rooms with his whole family.

Prabhupāda: That's all. And generally one room. Otherwise two rooms—one stock room, one sleeping room. They live very economically and save money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Frugal.

Conversations -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Slow and sure.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. But let us see. When it is so slow, it's not sure yet. If you want, you could take a little rest before your massage, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You didn't get much rest outside.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. (break) I think they have suffered, regularly living with rats.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Calcutta and Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Poor quarter. Still they are happy. The rats are jumping over your body.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sounds like Hare Kṛṣṇa Land, Juhu.

Prabhupāda: Yes, with one palace(?).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You were telling me that there was one man who was living in a house. The roof was coming down, and it was raining, and he wouldn't leave. Some worker.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. It is a different type of civilization, to become sanctified and Kṛṣṇa conscious. Other things are not very important. If it is possible to rectify him, don't bother about this. Be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Increase this qualification.

Conversation with Bhakti-caitanya Swami-New GBC -- June 30, 1977, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Without spices, Indians should not cook.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they won't digest it either.

Prabhupāda: You'll be surprised how what quantity of spices toward(?) Indians. There is a Calcutta wholesale market of spices. They... Everywhere, not Calcutta... Chili, they are sold in big, big bag. We have seen in Hyderabad a spice shop, chili, large shop. And amongst the spices, the chili is most favorable.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they like it very much. You also use it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone. And there are so many spices.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The spice merchants are usually pious men who become members, I have found. In any city...

Prabhupāda: They have got money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Very often the Marwaris, they are in that...

Prabhupāda: Gujarati.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The Gujarati, yeah, Gujarat. In Bombay there is a big Bombay Tri(?). Pañcadraviḍa Swami, that was his special area. He would go down there, huge spice area.

Prabhupāda: There is a special name of that place. Everyone, every poor man or rich man, must use quantity of spice.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhakti-prema: According to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, if we start from London...

Prabhupāda: That argument also I have refuted. Just like animal, he is bound up. He is rotating around the log, and within that there may be Japan, there may be Calcutta, there may be Los Angeles. You can think this is there. But that is not all. Within that rounding circle, whatever is there, you may think this is all. But that is not all. He's limited condition. So within his limitation (Bengali). Within that limitation he's speaking. But Himalaya and other things, far beyond their limitation. That I have already explained. He's speaking within his limitation. Our position should be, correctly represent what is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. But if there is some question, we should ask. Just like I am answering to the reasonable point. That if you are conditioned, within your condition you can see, you can experience, but beyond that you have no right to see. What is Los Angeles, Calcutta, Japan, this is very insignificant space. And they're talking of that. We are talking that Himalaya mountain, we have crossed over Himalaya, we conquered the outer space. How they can think of it?

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So what you have paid for you coming and going? What is the amount?

Vrindavan De: (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: From the Mathurā station?

Prabhupāda: No, no. From Calcutta to here. Ticket, what is?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Something like about... The ticket's about fifty-six...

Prabhupāda: (break) ...the modern kīrtana. Kīrtanāt... (break) "We shall improve our economic condition for more and more sense gratification." And that is the mistake. People are trying for that. Kāmasya nendriya-prītir lābho jīveta yāvatā (SB 1.2.10). Yāvad artha-prayojanam. Whatever money is required for maintaining, that's all. And as soon as we increase the so-called standard of happiness by sense gratification, then there is trouble. That is going on all over the world. They want money. They're not satis... "More money. More money. More money." Why more money? If you can live comfortably with certain amount of money, be satisfied in that way. Why more?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Unnecessary.

Prabhupāda: Unnecessary, and increase anxiety.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It sounds like... I don't know if there's any... Probably they won't attack again immediately. Now there must be police all the time there. I remember, in Calcutta once we had some trouble. Immediately they put a police guard all the time. The question is, of course, how much the government will protect us if the government is Communist and these were Communists who attacked. That we'll have to see.

Prabhupāda: No. It has to be taken to the Central Government.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what I thought also. I suspect that Gopāla wants to get the full information firsthand. Then he has to come to Vṛndāvana-Delhi anyway, so probably he'll come from Calcutta to Delhi directly to deal with the Central government. At that time, we should take the help of Bhakti-caitanya Mahārāja's friend, Mr. Gupta. This is the proper occasion.

Prabhupāda: But if the dacoits attack, we used gun, what is wrong?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Self-protection. The question is it may be that the gun may only be allowed to be used by the licensed holder of the gun.

Prabhupāda: That does not...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes, you know, when a person is arrested, it doesn't mean he's guilty, but they have to arrest him. Then, later on, it's taken up in court whether or not he's guilty.

Prabhupāda: Gun is kept for protection.

Room Conversation during lunchtime -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Delhi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ah. The heading is "Eleven Krishna Devotees Held for Firing." "Five Indian and six foreign Vaiṣṇava devotees were arrested from Māyāpur maṭha of ISKCON, the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, in Nabadwip last night when shots fired from inside the celebrated temple injured fifteen persons, most of them milkmen. A double-barreled gun was seized from the maṭha, it is reported. Police pickets have been posted since there is considerable tension in the nearby villages. Among those arrested is Swami Bhavānanda, an American in charge of the maṭha. Some time ago he was forced to leave the country after the expiry of his visa, but he returned later. The incident occurred at about 5 p.m. on Friday. Some boys were grazing their cattle on the fields outside the maṭha when some cows strayed into its compound. The cattle were beaten up by the inmates and driven out." It doesn't sound like our devotees. Beat up cows? "Angry milkmen from a nearby village crowded outside the maṭha. Shots were then fired from inside the maṭha, it is reported, injuring fifteen persons, two of them seriously. The police arrived on the scene within an hour. Among the six foreigners arrested are a Romanian, an Italian, and some Americans. The founder of the maṭha, Prabhupāda A.C. Bhaktivedanta, was not present." This is called slanted reporting. I mean, first of all, our devotees don't beat up the cows. We worship the cow. We don't beat cows. I can't take this as very factual account. So many statements here say, "It was reported," "It was reported." This is from a... It was published in Delhi, but it's datelined Calcutta, and the event happened in Māyāpur. So by the time it got to Delhi it seems to have taken a strange shape. I thought you'd want to...

Prabhupāda: These goyālas are very aggressive.

Śatadhanya: Milkmen means goyālas.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bālāi goyālas.

Prabhupāda: It is not the Muhammadans.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, directory

Mr. Myer: Whole things is done in one. I'll bring a copy when I come next time. It was done on very special paper made by Triveni Tissues in Calcutta. And whole thing is just so thin, and it covers everything, whatever, all Indian bases, all foreign embassies, banks, newspapers. (indistinct) Bombay this gentleman is. He's got a very big press. But he has a problem in managing it. So my brother is trying to give him some business. They have got very good facilities, offset. People don't believe such good printing can be done in India, five color, six color.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your brother is a printer by trade? No.

Mr. Myer: He is publisher.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's a publisher by trade.

Mr. Myer: He is actually doing agency business and publishing as his hobby. He's trying to bring out a few books.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where does he live?

Mr. Myer: He lives in Bangalore.

Prabhupāda: So why not bring some samples?

Mr. Myer: I'll bring. I'll bring samples. And also I think if you want to print Back to Godhead issue, he can easily do it. He's got a very good mind for it.

Prabhupāda: No, if your brother has got good press, we can print so many books.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: In press we are very much interested. Our twenty-five, yes, fifty percent activities on press.

Mr. Myer: He can definitely help you. He knows Hindi, Sanskrit also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your brother.

Mr. Myer: Hindi is good. Hindi, English. In fact, he's now very obvious data.(?) He's very well connected. He's known to local governor and people each end in Calcutta. In fact, (indistinct) recommended you to start a center there. But only, you see, that so many faiths people start believing in. He has been believing in Sai Baba sometime. So I was not wanting... But he'll change. It's just a matter of time.

Prabhupāda: The Sai Baba has been challenged in so many ways.

Mr. Myer: I went one day. I was sitting. I watched him, and he said "Come with me," and... It was a while back. So like that, he's... But then when I told him about ISKCON he's definitely interested to know all about that. Because my eldest brother, he became a member first in Māyāpur about four or five years ago.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said Sai Baba has been exposed in so many ways now.

Mr. Myer: Yes. Biggest problem with him is, see, that he has some sort of a charm over people. Mainly people who go to him, they want some miracles. People who want some...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...are completely against us. He says Girirāja and himself are meeting leading Hindus like Sadaji Vitlal, etc. He said, "We will have to bring up the Calcutta incident in Parliament." He says this has to be brought up in Parliament. "It was just like Uganda." Just like what happened in Uganda. Whole thing is a plot of the Communists.

Prabhupāda: And it has gone to the Central Government?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You said that. I guess you must have got that information from the newspaper. I didn't know that. I mean just see. Fifty of them together stealing the grass. That's organized. Two hundred fifty people waiting in the bushes, knowing that we will try to stop them from stealing, and suddenly they all rush into the gate, destroy the gate, cut the wires, cut the telephone line, destroy the waterpumps. Every one of these things is criminal. We did not do anything wrong, no wrong in any case. And yet they arrest us. The American government... Actually this should be pushed from the American government. That will have tremendous effect. We should let the American government defend us.

Prabhupāda: Is the Consulate has come?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The Consulate went to Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: We already said that this is a Communist plan.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...they want people join together and protest. And what is the response from Caitanya Maṭha? And that Surendranath Das is with Caitanya Maṭha, or he's doing something independently? A remark by such a great officer, I.D., is not to be neglected.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm thinking to send a copy of the letter direct to Māyāpur and another one through Calcutta, just in case there's some...

Prabhupāda: Do the needful.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you want me to go to Delhi, or should I wait until Bhakti-caitanya comes with Mr. Nai on Thursday?

Prabhupāda: No, here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Today's Tuesday. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...gṛhastha life. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura independently... Or I was also gṛhastha. Our aim was different. But this neophyte, if they remain aloof from temple connection without attending the function, gradually they will be lost.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Indian man (1): (Hindi conversation about mangoes) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...known as a religious man so that they can do business very exploitively. They were called by Guru Mahārāja, dharma-dhvaji.(?) Exploit (Bengali). Guru Mahārāja used to say dharma-dhvaji. "Daṇḍavat class." Yes. He knows simply to offer daṇḍavats. (laughs) Even so nice word: "Oh, he's a daṇḍavat class." My Guru Mahārāja was very humorous. He was a Calcutta bhap.(?) Therefore he liked me. All others, they came from East Bengal. I was the only disciple, Calcutta. All others...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Last night I heard on the radio—they were having news-yesterday in the Raja Sabha (Senate of the Indian Government) the Communist leader Bhupesh Gupta, he said that the government should close the Māyāpur center.

Prabhupāda: That is their business. Now you have to take the opposite, that "Why these people are so anxious about this unrest? Let there be further inquiry by the Janata party. And suspend..." No. Yes. "And suspend the Communist government for the time being."

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We are going to sell it for sixteen rupees or twenty rupees. Actually our life members love these books.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I was in Calcutta. Adri-dhāraṇa Prabhu told me that the Marwaris love it, even in Bombay.

Prabhupāda: Yes, the ladies can read at home.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Also, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the cover for First Canto, Part Three, is already printed. I'm going to take 1.3 now, but we've already printed the cover. This is 1.3.

Prabhupāda: This I want. Books are coming.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And 1.3 will be ready before the end of August. The cover is already done. The inside end leaf is done. I just have to send...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the quantity you've printed of these?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Two thousand. Next, from 1.3, we're increasing it to three thousand.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda was hoping you could print in larger quantities.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, there's no need at the moment because we print these by offset. If we need more we can...

Prabhupāda: All right. Whatever manuscript you have ready, print.

Room Conversation -- October 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said scratch hard. (break) The other train? Punjab Mail? Frontier Mail? Oh, Rajdhani. Rajdhani Express?

Prabhupāda: That is from Calcutta?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's two. One comes from Calcutta, between Calcutta and Delhi, and the other goes Bombay-Delhi and Delhi-Bombay. Both of them take about seventeen or eighteen hours. The one going from Calcutta stops only once, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Kanpur, I think. Between Calcutta and Delhi it makes one stop at Kanpur. That's all. It's all air-conditioned.

Prabhupāda: And the other?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The other one stops once, I guess, but I'm not certain of the place. Between here and Bombay it makes one stop, so far I know. I'm not sure what is that stop. They're very popular trains. They run only about twice a week. But the train we were on was quite quick also. But not so quick as this. The train we were on took about twenty-two hours, Bombay-Delhi. But Rajdhani, I think, takes seventeen. It's about five hours faster.

Prabhupāda: They are also very fast. No?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That one we were on?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Room Conversation -- October 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the news from Calcutta?

Śatadhanya: In Calcutta also we have men, three men. They go out on the street, and they may go to Park Street, and they set up a little stand, and they're distributing Bhagavat Darshan, Bhagavāner Kathās and the people are... Without even having to approach the people, the people come and they buy it from the stand. So it's also very successful.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The books are in demand.

Śatadhanya: They do about one hundred, 150 a day. Dalhousie, Park Street.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How many tables are set up each day?

Śaktimātā:(?): Usually about one or two in different places. As far as life members, it used to be we had to go fight and make life members. Now they come to the temple and they pay their baise o baise(?) rupee and they say, "I want to be a member."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bengali people also?

Śaktimātā: Bengalis also. Mostly still Marwadi.

Prabhupāda: Bengalis have no money. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- October 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: Now that the flood waters have receded, in about three-four weeks it will be time to send the boat out again. Nice program. Tapomaya Prabhu will take charge of the boat. The boat is very popular. Up and down the Gaṅgā from Calcutta to Māyāpur everyone knows the Hare Kṛṣṇa Naukā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hare Kṛṣṇa Naukā. That's what they call it. What does that mean?

Bhavānanda: Boat.

Indian devotee: (indistinct) ...one boat is passing through the river like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How is the translation work going? How is the publication going?

Bhavānanda: That is Bhakti-caru Swami's work.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're doing nicely?

Bhavānanda: Yes. Subhaga is here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Subhaga is here, Śrīla Prabhupāda. He came to see you. This seems like... When Lord Caitanya was in Jagannātha Purī, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the residents of Māyāpur used to come to visit Him. Now all the residents of Māyāpur are coming to visit you here in Vṛndāvana, your headquarters here.

Prabhupāda: Gītār Gān, (Bengali).

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali about popularity of Gītār Gān)

Subhaga: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Subhaga: Muhammadan arrested? No.

Bhavānanda: They're going to be arrested.

Subhaga: They're going to be arrested, Prabhupāda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? How would you like to drink something?

Prabhupāda: I have no thirst.

Room Conversation -- October 12, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The charges are made by the government. We cannot drop. Do you follow?

Jayapatākā: Yes. The charges can't be dropped by us, but if the two parties make a type of compromise agreement and file a petition to the court...

Prabhupāda: But now the fight is not between them and us. The fight is between government and them.

Jayapatākā: Many barristers in Calcutta say that if due to political pressure, this or that, some people come and ask us to try to file a petition for dropping charges, that there's no need to do that, because the case is well in our favor.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you drop, they get opportunity.

Room Conversation With Svarupa Damodara -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. We'll go all over India. In Calcutta will be very interesting because there are so many people,

Bhāgavata: Yesterday you took ḍāl and ruṭi?

Abhirāma: Just tasted.

Bhāgavata: Oh. Just tasted.

Prabhupāda: Simply touch.

Bhāgavata: How was it tasting?

Prabhupāda: It was very tasteful, but my tongue has no taste. Maybe gradually by stimulating the body...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Vṛndāvana is so beautiful at this time, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Everyone's... The sky is so clear, the stars are so bright, and also the weather is so beautiful. We have a nice decoration of the hall. Last night one of the professors from Agra told me that he wants to have us organize this conference next year. He said this should be an annual feature, a science conference in Vṛndāvana every year.

Prabhupāda: Let them make advance in scientific research, but still they cannot capture the real thing.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So what he recommends?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So he says he can print cheaper anyway in Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Then let him print.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That's what I... I mentioned that to him.

Prabhupāda: Why depend on one printer?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: Where is Gopāla?

Girirāja: He went to Bombay today.

Prabhupāda: So, you arrange many printers.

Girirāja: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Hṛdayānanda: Anywhere in the world.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And especially you can send them from Bombay to Calcutta. There's no hindrance. (Girirāja whispering)

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Girirāja: Well, I wrote a prayer to Lord Kṛṣṇa for your health. So I was... It's in the next room. I was thinking of bringing it and reading it.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Hṛdayānanda: Also a message arrived for your health, prayers from the devotees in Central America. They're all praying for you. A letter has just arrived.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I get many letters all week, Śrīla Prabhupāda, all praying for your recovery. The devotees cannot resign themselves to letting you go. They don't want to live without you. They cannot...

Prabhupāda: Viśvambhara, everywhere they want me. You also...

Viśvambhara: I can give my life, Prabhupāda. I can give some of my years. I pray that I may go early, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: No, why you should go early? You live on.

Room Conversation -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So why stock lacking? Why this mismanagement? There is no question of shortage of stock. I give you open order. Print more than necessity. If you do not print, what shall I do?

Bhakti-caru: Should we start printing Hindi books in Calcutta, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: I do not know where to be... But get it printed in huge stock.

Bhakti-caru: Calcutta also has all the facilities in Hindi.

Prabhupāda: What is use of telling me?

Hṛdayānanda: What is the use of telling him?

Jayapatākā: He said, "I give an open order to print books. Always have big stock."

Hṛdayānanda: Huge stock, he said, more than necessary.

Kīrtanānanda: It's up to us to figure out where to print books.

Gargamuni(?): I have to put this question, Prabhupāda.

Jayapatākā: He already answered that question. Gaura-Govinda, he's already translated sixteen chapters of Bhagavad-gītā in Oriya, and he's translated three small books in Oriya.

Prabhupāda: Let him bring. There is fifty thousand rupees in Orissa.

Room Conversation With Dr. Ghosh -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Dr. Ghosh: By that rocket bus. Sixteen hours it took us from Siliguri to Calcutta. Terrible, bone-breaking. I never did that in my life, sixteen hours by bus. In Calcutta, Calcutta the greatest thing. With Lord Kṛṣṇa's blessings He could otherwise. This is the third flight that we got. We couldn't get before that. This morning we got a flight without a great...

Prabhupāda: Rocket bus?

Dr. Ghosh: Ha, from Siliguri to Calcutta. It usually takes twelve hours, but the road was so bad that it took sixteen hours to come to Calcutta. From Siliguri to Calcutta. Then Calcutta we were delayed. We couldn't get the first flight, second flight... Couldn't rest. With greatest difficulty, third flight we came this morning. Otherwise we would have reached yesterday, last night.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Dr. Ghosh: Our name was in the waiting list. They would not give, do it. Anyway, we have reached.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyway, now it is good that you have come.

Dr. Ghosh: You should measure his urine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We do. We do that. We have kept a record for two months now of everything that he takes in and passes out.

Prabhupāda: You can show him the record? Huh? (pause)

Room Conversation -- October 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, Acyutānanda Mahārāja has come.

Prabhupāda: Here?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Acyutānanda.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Where you are preaching now?

Acyutānanda: I was in Calcutta during the Māyāpur affair. Then I went to South India. Now I'm going to America. My stay in India may be terminated. And I received American passport. I'm able to travel now. Rāmeśvara Prabhu is sending me a ticket.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Rāmeśvara?

Bhavānanda: Rāmeśvara Mahārāja is sending a ticket for him to go.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So you can go now, America, eh?

Bhavānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That's good. You attended the conference?

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You liked?

Acyutānanda: Oh, yes. It was very successful. One scientist has actually been touched. His heart is changed, Dr. Ramaya. He, in fact, defended our one point with one other scientist.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, first of all a conveyance is drawn up according to the sales agreement. So without seeing the sales agreement, it's very hard to know if everything is accurate. The sales agreement is kept with the Central Bank of India in Calcutta. So we're...

Prabhupāda: Do not copy?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we had never made a copy. So I think the easiest thing would be to give Jayapatākā Mahārāja a letter of authority. He'll get the agreement, and even right in the bank or else at the temple in Calcutta he can make a copy and send us a copy and redeposit the original with the bank. And that's one point. Then another point is that the land on which the building was erected doesn't actually belong to Mr. Patodiya. It belonged to a Bengali gentleman, and in fact it's not owned by Mr. Patodiya. It's leased for ninety-nine years, of which eighty-five years still remain. So this conveyance more or less... It appears that every guarantee is only given for the duration of that lease—another eighty-five years. So the obvious question is what happens after that eighty-five years? Of course, a lawyer, a solicitor, can tell us this very easily, but I'm thinking that it might be helpful that when Jayapatākā is sending us the copy of the sale agreement he may also get a copy for Mr. Patodiya of that lease agreement which Mr. Patodiya has with the Bengali gentleman, so that we can see what the position is after eighty-five years. Girirāja and I were studying it pretty closely. So what we're going to probably do is we'll give the copy of the conveyance draft to one of our life member lawyers, friends in Delhi, and in the meantime, while he's looking at it, we'll get the necessary documents from Calcutta. Then we'll settle it up. Not difficult.

Prabhupāda: There are other? Other occupants?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There are other occupants? I don't follow your question, Prabhupāda.

Doctor Visit and Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Than that must be stopped. Sublet, they cannot.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Supposing, you know, they move out completely and someone pays them a thousand rupees a month? And with that thousand or more they get some other place?

Prabhupāda: Then they'll have to vacate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See, once they pay corporation taxes, they can claim tenancy. And a tenant... I can give you an example. In Calcutta, in Albert Road, where we currently have our temple, it was being rented by one member friend. Then he let Jayapatākā stay there, and then we took over. Of course, he was paying rent, but still, they can also be looked upon as a tenant because they'll be paying taxes.

Prabhupāda: Then you pay tax. Cut down from their pension. Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it could be done.

Prabhupāda: We pay, and you cut down. Other tenants are there. But not tenants-occupier. What they are doing?

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the system. It's going to take a little time. It will be matured. It may take a week or so more because we have to send from Bombay and then to Calcutta, then it has to come back here. Even if it takes an extra week, there's no great harm, I think. We'll try to have it done by the date, but I think it may take a few extra days.

Guest (1): No, even it takes more time, they will give you the tax for tax deduction.(?) (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You can explain to Prabhupāda that the system we are doing is the correct system.

Guest (1): Because we cannot sign now.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. But you should explain to him that you agree.

Prabhupāda: I can sign, but it will not be...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The same.

Prabhupāda: Therefore...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In any case, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we have to bring the certificates here. That's the first thing. Whether it's your signature or whether it's our signatures, the certificate has to be brought here.

Guest (1): You may sign. If both of these will be given to me, that will do.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We'll give in this plus the certificates to the bank, and they'll give us a receipt.

Prabhupāda: So you can take the copy of the safe custody receipt and inquire into Bank of Baroda.

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a fast train from Delhi to Calcutta, just like the train you came in. We can get a... Yes. It's called Raj-dhani. It's a very fast train.

Bhavānanda: And they have a sleeper on it also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's all air-conditioned.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Just like this train you came by. It will be air-conditioned, but have some un-air-conditioned compartments.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyway, that won't be difficult to take you. It's not difficult. Any jumbos flying from Delhi?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I can check on that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, it has to be a jumbo.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They have Airbus.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's useless. There's no benefit in Airbuses. The seats are the same in Airbus. There's no first class.

Bhavānanda: When you're feeling stronger, then the veranda is there for nice stroll.

Prabhupāda: There is ample space.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think change is good also sometimes. So we should make that program?

Prabhupāda: I think so.

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And I will cash those certificates when we get to Calcutta, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Then I don't have to call for them. If we go there, then I'll do everything there. It will be very easy.

Prabhupāda: So that is my proposal. Now you think over seriously and arrange for.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now you will shower your mercy upon the Vaiṣṇavas of Bengal, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Or I shall go there to take their dust of feet.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Take the dust...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of their feet. I think this is the right plan, Śrīla Prabhupāda, because by then, by March of April, it will be time for you... The festival will be there. And then, with hundreds and hundreds, maybe thousands of ISKCON Vaiṣṇavas from all over the world, you will be better. And then with a great contingent we will travel around the world.

Bhavānanda: Jaya.

Devotees: Jaya. Haribol.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here is Bhakti-prema Swami.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So Bhakti-prema, you are also coming?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda's thinking to go to Māyāpur. He says are you also coming with him?

Bhakti-prema: Certainly, Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: So let us go in a team. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So I shall prefer.

Devotees: What?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "So I shall prefer." Maybe Svarūpa Dāmodara Prabhu can arrange some conferences for himself in Calcutta. Then he can visit you regularly in Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, we'll do that in Calcutta. Calcutta is a big place for us.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That way he can come regularly and give you report on how the science conferences are going. That will be very enlivening. (to Svarūpa Dāmodara:) That's part of your plan.

Bhavānanda: I'm already thinking, Śrīla Prabhupāda, what preparations we have to make.

Prabhupāda: Simply fresh vegetable. And mung ḍāl also.

Bhavānanda: Everything comes to life when you come to Māyāpur. You are the crown jewel. Māyāpur is such beautiful setting, but without Your Divine Grace's presence, we are always feeling empty-hearted. And as soon as you come, all of us are enlivened.

Prabhupāda: So let us go in a team.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Where? Śrī Raṅgam.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So the man must be very... He's not so smārta. Because he will allow Westerners to live with him, he's favorable. So Smara-hari, one of the devotees here... We felt that if we do not find from Jalan or anyone a good kavirāja in Calcutta, then let us send two devotees to Śrī Raṅgam to meet with this head pūjārī and get his help for finding out a proper Rāmānuja kavirāja and bring him to Māyāpur. And immediately let us go to Māyāpur. Why should we sit here waiting here? Because actually we don't find any benefit from waiting here. The idea was to give change of climate, and what is the purpose of waiting for that to happen? Because we're not gaining anything by staying here except that the weather is becoming colder, so it becomes more and more dangerous to travel in cold weather. And as far as bringing a kavirāja goes, now we've already seen there's not going to be one in Vṛndāvana, so at best, we'd have to bring him from Delhi. But whether a man has to come from Delhi or come from Śrī Raṅgam, he's going to have to come and visit and stay with us. And once the treatment begins, if we get a Delhi kavirāja, he's going to have to keep coming down here. We don't want to have to stay here for more than one or two weeks. But the treatment is going to be longer than two weeks. So then we'll be stuck here. If we depend upon a Delhi kavirāja we'll be stuck here. Best thing is someone from Calcutta, because then they can come frequently to Māyāpur. But in the event that we cannot get someone from Calcutta, then we should take the help of one kavirāja from South India. And your dream was that it was a Rāmānuja kavirāja who was preparing the medicine. I think that after it's prepared he may administer the medicine for some time, but afterwards we can find another kavirāja. If he has to return to South, then another kavirāja may continue the treatment.

Prabhupāda: There is no treatment.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they do. They take the seats out and put your stretcher on. But we don't want that. There's no question of that.

Prabhupāda: It goes direct?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. Delhi-Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Then arrange for that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah? It's a lot easier. Plane travel is easier.

Prabhupāda: Ah, ah.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's no doubt about that. It's so much easier and so much quicker.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This country you can't do these things like that. So...

Brahmānanda: Then directly from Dum Dum to Māyāpur?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Then we go direct from Dum Dum to Māyāpur. We don't even have to go into Calcutta. Is that all right? So do you agree, Śrīla Prabhupāda, with the idea then, that the sooner we transfer there, the better, to Māyāpur? As far as the kavirāja goes, let us see if we get a local man from Calcutta, failing which, Smara-hari plus one other devotee will go to Śrī Raṅgam, and from a very reliable kavirāja, in their presence, they will have it made. Smara-hari, you see, is from Gurukṛpā and Yaśodā-nandana's party, so he has got experience sitting and watching people making the silver onto the throne. He knows how to sit and watch not to get cheated.

Prabhupāda: No, the thing is the man who would prepare, he must be experienced. That is wanted. And sincere. Then it will work, either you prepare there or here. When our men...? (devotees talk among themselves softly about who should go to Śrī Raṅgam)

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, in the meantime, some treatment should be there. In the meantime, before you get this makara-dhvaja, some treatment should be there.

Prabhupāda: What treatment?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we were thinking that this Vanamali Prabhu, he has made this medicine. So why not find out what is this medicine from him and you can take that in the meantime. He's made this medicine, Vanamali.

Prabhupāda: What is the benefit?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, according to him, this is makara-dhvaja. I mean, I don't discount that this may be Makara-dhvaja. I am not rejecting it simply on the word of that Rāmānujī kavirāja who was here. Otherwise, then we simply wait for the makara-dhvaja.

Prabhupāda: That we'll do.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They have got a...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then one thing we'll do, Śrīla Prabhupāda... The easiest thing is: let us go to Māyāpur. Smara-hari was coming anyway, so let him come to Māyāpur also. If we don't get anyone from Calcutta within a day or two... If we don't get anyone... (whispering in background) If we don't get anyone from Calcutta, Śrīla Prabhupāda? If we don't get any kavirāja from Calcutta side, then we'll send Smara-hari.

Prabhupāda: By Jalan's recommendation.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Then we'll send Smara-hari, and Sarva-bhāvana can go. You know Sarva-bhāvana, Bhakti-caru's friend? Remember that Bengali devotee? He can go with Smara-hari directly and get someone. I think we'll get someone from Calcutta. It is better if we get Calcutta. It'll be easier. But if we don't, then we'll immediately send someone to South. It will only be a matter of a few days. They can be back. Is it all right?

Prabhupāda: Under somebody's recommendation. Just like Jalan people.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Something. Anyway, before we leave I'm going to speak with Bhagatji. Bhagatji is the one who gave the gold and pearls to Vanamali. So I think Bhagatji will be able to recover it. We'll leave this medicine with Bhagatji, and he can give the medicine to Vanamali and take the money. So Smara-hari will be leaving today, just now. And we've already spoken with Delhi, and they're already going to purchase the airline tickets. Either we will leave Wednesday... Today is Monday. Either we will leave Wednesday or we will leave Friday. We're not going to travel on Thursday. And they've already informed Calcutta and Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: Who will go with me?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your Divine Grace, Bhavānanda Mahārāja, myself, Bhakti-caru Mahārāja, Śatadhanya Mahārāja, Upendra Prabhu, Svarūpa Dāmodara, Bharadvāja. That'll be on the plane. Then in the train, Pradyumna, Arundhatī, some other devotees also. So eight of us will be going on the plane with you, seven plus Your Divine Grace, and you will have three seats. Altogether, we're purchasing ten seats. So I don't think there will be any difficulty. We're going in full team. Scientist is with us. In case of any special knowledge, Svarūpa Dāmodara will be there. Bhavānanda with his gun. (laughter) Full team. I think it will be a nice journey, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: I hope.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now you must have good godown. Otherwise books will be stolen.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At the market.

Prabhupāda: And market it will be sold at cheap rate. Then it will reduce its importance.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was happening in Calcutta many...

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I also got the loan for the godown. So in November we are starting construction of the BBT godown in Bombay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That four lakhs, two lakhs was for the godown and two lakhs for book printing.

Prabhupāda: Money you'll get. There is no scarcity. Ātreya Ṛṣi will give you.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he is very rich.

Prabhupāda: Their country is very rich now.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Let us introduce in Hindi.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Our Hindi books. And actually that man I spoke to on the phone, he spoke such fluent Hindi I had to ask him three times if he's Chinese or Indian. He was Chinese.

Prabhupāda: No, in Calcutta we have got many Chinese. They speak fluently.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This Chinese was from Peking, not Indian-born. And also I was thinking we can say that Bhaktivedanta Book Trust is one of the biggest printers in the world, and we are seriously thinking of buying Chinese paper for printing. And we can buy Chinese paper if it's good, because I found out that Chinese paper is as good as Japanese paper and it is cheaper.

Prabhupāda: No, we can print there also in China.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That will be great, (laughing) if we print our books in China.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they have got paper.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So it's okay to try for a visa. (break)

Prabhupāda: Sleeping means weakness.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's arranged for Rāmānuja kavirāja, Jayapatākā Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Bengal side, Calcutta side, Māyāpur. Māyāpur, Calcutta, but he's there.

Bhavānanda: He wears Rāmānuja tilaka, he's got good recommendation from L. M. Bangor.

Trivikrama: But how can Prabhupāda travel?

Devotee: But Prabhupāda cannot travel, because any movement will disturb his kidney.

Prabhupāda: He cannot come?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it will be the same as the man from Delhi. He can't come and stay here and give up his practice. He stays in Calcutta, so... He won't be able to simply come and then... He'll leave, and then we won't be able to consult. The idea is that the man has to be here every day.

Prabhupāda: No. If he Rāmānujī kavirāja gives makara-dhvaja, that is the last. If he...

Bhavānanda: He'll only have to come once, you mean, and prescribe makara-dhvaja.

Prabhupāda: No... (break) ...said there is a good kavirāja?

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No... (break) ...said there is a good kavirāja?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't know how it is that approved this one, but according to Gopāla, Jayapatākā says that he's arranged one Rāmānujī kavirāja.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Bhavānanda: Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Why not consult him?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we'd have to go there.

Prabhupāda: Go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I mean the point is you would have to go there. See, they want to see you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Actually this is not the... You know, generally a kavirāja wants to see the person that he's giving the medicine to so he can know...

Prabhupāda: So if he agrees to take up the case, I'll go.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: First of all, if he can come at least for a few days here, if it is possible, and if he examines, then, if we make the next move, I think that will be wiser.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If somebody goes and brings him, then he decides. Then we shall go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Svarūpa Dāmodara, you could call direct to Calcutta and talk with Adri-dhāraṇa, who has contacted him, and let him discuss and see if he can bring him here. First of all, he should ask whether the man is willing. We can fly him here to Delhi and bring him here. I'm sure he'll agree to that. But it should be... He should be...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I can call from Delhi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. You could call Adri-dhāraṇa. He's the one who found the man. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...bring one Rāmānuja. He has the makara-dhvaja. So if... Bhavānanda has suggested, somebody very responsible go and bring him. And then, if we can, we shall go together. Hm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: In the meantime, all medicine stopped. Hm?

Bhavānanda: There's no loss in stopping the medicine at this point, because this medicine is not improving your condition.

Prabhupāda: No.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That kavirāja did not come?

Upendra: What happened? No one knows. They left. They say he left Calcutta at twelve o'clock flight.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I could have gone to the airport. Maybe they are coming tomorrow on the train, Taj Express?

Upendra: No, by air they came.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, from Delhi. I thought that maybe he didn't know that, Adri...? If it starts from Calcutta at twelve o'clock, it should be arriving at Delhi about two o'clock.

Upendra: Then let's say one hour, then three to here.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There's a train at five o'clock that I came by, train, five o'clock. It's a very good train. Maybe they didn't know that train. It starts from Nizammudin Station. So if they're planning to come by train tomorrow, the Taj Express is at seven o'clock in the morning, arriving Mathurā at nine o'clock.

Upendra: Someone could call Delhi.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Simply, one after another, frustration.(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. First we had that Madhva..., not Madhva. Rāmānujī came from Śrī Raṅgajī temple, and he seemed to be a cheater. Then this one... We got this medicine from that śakta-kavirāja, and that medicine turned out to be poison. And now this kavirāja who's supposed to be coming from Calcutta, it's become a mystery where he is. The temple was called, and they said that they've left. They called twice to Calcutta, and they said they've left, and yet he's not here. I don't know what to make of it. Very puzzling situation. I think that if by tomorrow noon they have not arrived, then Śatadhanya can go to Calcutta to bring them. If they're going to arrive, they'd arrive by tomorrow noon.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, at the latest.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At the latest absolutely. I mean, to me, for them to arrive by tomorrow noon is not... From the very beginning I would not have felt it was out of the ordinary.

Prabhupāda: They said they have left!

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Still, whatever the reason is.

Prabhupāda: You are not talking... Everything is being done by the same Śatadhanya. (laughs)

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Better that you don't drink any more tonight, Śrīla Prabhupāda, except a little bit of miśri-jala or some little bit. Then by tomorrow you should be more normal again. Anyway, our activities are going on—parikrama, kīrtana, Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Can I go to Calcutta?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I still feel a little confident that we could take you there, but... I mean just like we carry you in the palanquin and you don't have any difficulty, so airplane is like a big palanquin. I mean, you know, there's so many of us, eight or ten of us. I can't see that there could be any difficulty. Of course, I still think the kavirāja is going to come. I have faith in Śatadhanya Mahārāja. I think this is simply Kṛṣṇa's test for him. I think the kavirāja will come. The nicest thing will be if the kavirāja treats you for some days, and you get some benefit, and then he takes you...

Prabhupāda: (?) Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We go back with him to Calcutta and Māyāpur. That would be very nice. Of course, he has to first of all come here. I've seen things like this happen before in India, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I mean India is the kind of place where... It's difficult. You could drop out of communication for a day. It's very possible that that can happen. It's just a very strange kind of place to communicate and to travel in.

Bhakti-caru: Another thing is I think this noon flight is not a direct flight. It's a Kanadu(?) that hops, say, from Calcutta, Benares, Allahabad, Lucknow, Delhi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. So how many hours could that be?

Bhakti-caru: Five, six hours. Takes a long time. And it's not as fast as Boeing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means it would arrive at 6:30 or 7:00. I think that by tomorrow noon, if they didn't come, then we would have to say that the matter has become hopeless for them coming. And really it's a fact, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that you've been resting today without taking any medicine is not a bad thing.

Bhakti-caru: And the passing stool has stopped.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that stopped. That's the main thing. That was the disturbance. The stool was passing. So many people are coming to the temple here, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Many pilgrims. The temple is full of people all the time. Lots of pilgrims coming. Devotees were saying that in other temples there's not so much activity. Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma are attracting all of the people of the land. Everyone is attracted to Them. But it seems like Rādhā-Śyāmasundara are equally popular. People like Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa very much, and especially in Vṛndāvana. But Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma is unique. I hear them exclaiming. They are at once surprised and pleased to see the two brothers together.

Bhakti-caru: And the śṛṅgāra is so unique here. It's the best.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, everyone says the śṛṅgāra is the best. But for flowers we have not yet the best. So we have to make that. Bhavānanda Mahārāja was suggesting a program, Śrīla Prabhupāda. He was suggesting that in that open land on the side of the Gurukula, that we could build a prasādam pavilion, and we could serve the public every day free prasādam at noon time. That might become very popular in Vṛndāvana. Ḍāl and cāpāṭis. All the sādhus would come. I don't know if it's a good idea, but he was suggesting.

Prabhupāda: Good idea. Very good idea.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Bengali people are easy-going. So therefore they can manufacture all these humors. (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would your Guru Mahārāja tell a lot of Bengali proverbs, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hm. I learned from him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You once said that he liked you very much, 'cause you were also a Calcutta boy, Calcutta born. (break)

Prabhupāda: Sohar(?) has money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually I started to have a talk with him about the...

Prabhupāda: You write. You are intelligent. I cannot do anything. I only want...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that point.

Prabhupāda: (crying) I am very poor man, and somehow or other, I built up. And still in my...

Kavirāja (1): (Hindi or Bengali)

Prabhupāda: Aiye. Aiye. (Hindi)

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Who has come with him?

Śatadhanya: This is Adri-dhāraṇa dāsa, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I told you about him, that he's collecting very big in Calcutta, making many members. So he has come with the kavirāja personally.

Prabhupāda: He belongs to which province?

Adri-dhāraṇa: I was born in Bombay, but my parents are from Sindh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he's born in Bombay.

Bhakti-caru: And he joined in Florida, yes? (Hindi—kavirāja) About six months back we had a report.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Urine specimen report?

Bhakti-caru: Yes. This is the... He's asking about that time, four or five months ago.

Bhakti-caru: This one is from... Yes, this is very recent.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's better.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you have to consider that, although he should take sufficient liquid. So you have to augment... (break) ...Śatadhanya, when we called Calcutta, and then I could not fall asleep properly because I was very... My mind was active last night. For three hours I was not sleeping.

Prabhupāda: On the back side.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. Little scratching, should I do? (break)

Prabhupāda: ...krama on the palanquin, practically it is very pleasant.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You look very much like you're enjoying when we take you around. It's very nice to see that you're happy then. (break) Śrīla Prabhupāda, when someone is ill as Your Divine Grace is, it's always a case of lamentation, but somehow or other, because of your most wonderful Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is simply nectarean to be with you. (break) ...Indian Overseas Bank. So Prabhupāda's idea is that all of you should get sufficiently everything that you require, that you should never feel any difficulty. But he is very concerned that the money should not be squandered. (break) ...going to deal with the letter. He simply instead told you to come.

Vrindavan De: I have sent money twice. Once in Vṛndāvana and Bombay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we got the 870 rupees. That we received here.

Vrindavan De: But took from Prabhupāda personally.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. But so far, the payment to the BBT has not come.

Vrindavan De: No, BBT is being arranged. I shall send check.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think your outstanding bill is about 25,000 rupees.

Vrindavan De: Yes, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So that has not been paid.

Prabhupāda: So, why you have not paid?

Vrindavan De: That is also on a check basis.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So seven thousand you can give, contribution. In that way...

Vrindavan De: Whatever the amount I may take, I can pay back by 10th or 15th April, positively.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He'll get 43,200 by the 7th of November.

Vrindavan De: Because we have got an order from the National Library of Calcutta worth one lakh. So...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So supply him half the order to begin with.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why not do that?

Vrindavan De: It is on our confirmation, because the money is the main criterion.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You'll have the money by the 7th of the month.

Vrindavan De: I don't have any such big amount. But if you...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no. The postal receipts. But some of the money is to Sulaksmana De, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Some of this money...

Prabhupāda: No, all the money he can take.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Vrindavan De: Calcutta from Delhi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So?

Vrindavan De: Then where should I stay in the night? It leaves at eight o'clock in the morning to Calcutta.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Stay at our temple.

Vrindavan De: Toofan is better I think.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If available.

Vrindavan De: As this Mail from here, Mathurā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So where to get the...? I don't want to get the tickets from Mathurā. I want to get the tickets from Delhi. That is my point. I will arrange to purchase a ticket from Delhi.

Vrindavan De: But where can I stay in the night?

Prabhupāda: Or you can go by plane. We shall pay.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You can return to Delhi in the after...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See, because I know you can get reservations immediately to go to Calcutta from Delhi. (aside:) You were just there. You know that. Because there's so many trains going, Delhi-Calcutta, and if you purchase the ticket here or if you purchase the ticket from Mathurā you'll wait ten days. Remember how we had to wait?

Vrindavan De: Last time I paid ten rupees as bribe.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And even then we couldn't get immediately. But in Delhi we can get it immediately. Especially with foreign quota, it's very easy. They give immediately ticket. You can get the same night. So I'll arrange that.

Vrindavan De: So I can go to Delhi day after tomorrow.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Like that. I'll arrange and I'll give you a letter. You go. In any case you go to the Delhi temple. Today itself...

Vrindavan De: I don't know the place.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Vrindavan De: (Bengali) Because my man arrived on 4th, and he came back on 6th because Dhana Jani(?) was already booked from Calcutta. He delivered some fruits or something to your devotee in Bombay. I don't think that... There is a list...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we never got. I don't think we got.

Vrindavan De: And we have also sent some letter with Gopāla Kṛṣṇa. Never received?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That I think we received. We got a lot of letters from you. None of them were replied because of Prabhupāda's health.

Vrindavan De: (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I got seven or eight letters from you.

Vrindavan De: There was no tickets available before 10th or 11th.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To where?

Vrindavan De: To, by Toofan.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, Toofan is hopeless.

Vrindavan De: Even by Calcutta.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, but we'll get from Delhi side. That was pūjā time.

Vrindavan De: First I got a ticket on 30th.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If I don't get the ticket by train, then I'll book a plane ticket.

Vrindavan: Train is... And I'm not a man of that position.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Let us see. If necessary we'll... In any case we're paying for your..., always, whenever you come to see Prabhupāda. So let us first try for train, and if we see that...

Prabhupāda: That we can pay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If we see that there's no trains available, then we'll book a plane.

Prabhupāda: Or you can book a plane, accordingly. You can return immediately.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...tomorrow probably. (indistinct) ...loan... Actually we're not loaning him that money. That money is being given as a gift to him. He was willing to pay it back. I said, no, this is a gift from you to him for improving his business. I said actually it's meant for each of the family members. I told him, "You use it now for improving your business. Then if business increases, you can eventually pay each one of them the money that they should have gotten." He said, "Very nice." And I explained to him what squandering meant. Now it is very clear. I told him that "You can use the money each month that you get. And all of you can use it for three things: for purchasing property, increasing business or buying government stocks." I said, "Prabhupāda's point is that whatever he's given you, it should increase in its value. He wants to see that it increases." And now it's very definite, so... Again I explained to him how there should be no difficulty with this, getting this... He's a little lazy. He's lazy. I could see that when he thought that the money was a donation, I think it came in his mind that "Even if the business deal doesn't go through, I still get the money." He should be encouraged, but his tendency is to be a little lazy. They should not be given money easily, too easily. Otherwise they won't work hard. He's also getting some money, he told me, from a fixed deposit in Calcutta from the BBT which he uses for travel expenses. He says gradually he will be paying some of that money back. He said that's why he sent you sometimes... He recently sent 870 rupees. He says that he's using it for travel expenses, and he may pay it back. I didn't know if you had arranged anything regarding that. You expect him to pay that money back, or not necessarily? It should be.

Prabhupāda: No, I expect.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Guide them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They are simple people. That's the feeling I got today. So I'll pay him whatever he expended for coming here plus his airfare to go back to Calcutta. And probably I'll suggest that he leave tomorrow. He wanted to spend more time, but I told him that "Now you should do this business and don't delay now. This is not the time to take extra time. You can come back later on." Pisimā's son's name is Chandra? Hm. Bhakti-caru has his address. Is the diarrhea more or less stopped now?

Upendra: He hasn't...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Passed any stool?

Upendra: That one in the morning was only...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Little, little.

Upendra: Little, like Bhakti-caru said.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So tonight, Śrīla Prabhupāda, tonight you have not passed anything. Then you try to take something, drinking something.

Prabhupāda: I'm drinking something.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not very much today.

Prabhupāda: How can I drink very much?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it's relative, I mean to say.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You have got some Central Bank passbooks?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have Central Bank passbooks. I don't know if I have one with us. It may be in Bombay or Calcutta. Just the fact that that bank is familiar with us.

Prabhupāda: They have to see where there is account money. I cannot remember.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, I've got it... I mean I'm doing good on this. You mean just in general to keep everything properly. Is that what you mean, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You mean generally to keep everything in order. Yes, I have a very good hold on it. Some things... You know, because formerly they never kept these things down. Now I'm finding out things. But whenever I get extra information, I note it. Pretty much I have all of the things in order. Just like now I just found out for the first time that he's getting a monthly interest from one of the fixed deposits in the name of BBT. That was never noted. So when I find out the amount, I'll just note it. Then I can deduct it each month from the account that I'm keeping. Like that, sometimes I get new information.

Prabhupāda: So you have to search out.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but I've actually been doing that. And I've also been checking whenever they give interest that it's exactly the right amount. I make sure each year they credit the interest, keeping watch carefully of the fixed deposits to see when they come matured, like that.

Prabhupāda: Only thing is that M. M. De and Sulaksmana. They should not be given more than twelve...(?) (two hundred...?)

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So what about this kavirāja?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śatadhanya just placed a lightning call to Delhi to see if they've heard anything. Otherwise, if he doesn't hear anything, he may have to go to Calcutta himself. One thing is that I did not expect that within... You know, as we called this morning, I did not expect that the man would come here by this afternoon. I mean a thing like this has to take a least a day's time. The man has to be informed...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Whether actually any talk was there?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, Jayapatākā... The original message came from Jayapatākā to Gopāla Kṛṣṇa in Delhi, and he said that he had personally, so far Gopāla told me that this was coming from Jayapatākā, that Jayapatākā told him...

Prabhupāda: Where is Gopāla?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's in Bombay. He's gone to Bombay. I mean we'll know... Personally, I think that within a day's time you'll know everything about this kavirāja. If there's no such thing, then you'll know that. If there is, you'll either see him here or you'll get news of when he's coming. Or you may get news that there's no way he can come; we have to come there. But I think within a day's time you'll get the news.

Prabhupāda: No, this boy Śatadhanya, he said, "I have personally talked. He is very responsible."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Adri-dhāraṇa. He personal... Yeah.

Prabhupāda: But what kind of responsible?

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If not, so that means hopeless.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Let us wait, Śrīla Prabhupāda, because he should be here very shortly. I mean it's actually miraculous how quickly everything was done, how we were able to call Calcutta in the middle of the night, how Adri-dhāraṇa was able to get the man and bring him on a train..., plane by noontime, how we again were able to reach Calcutta on the telephone and get this information. So far, it appears that everything is very quickly being done. So we just have to be a little... You know. We have to be a little bit patient.

Prabhupāda: Do you think I shall die very quickly?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Do you think I shall die very quick?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I don't think you shall die.

Prabhupāda: I wanted that kavirāja last night, so he was not possible?(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which one?

Prabhupāda: That kavirāja from Calcutta.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: When he's coming?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's supposed to be here any moment, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (whispering) Hm. I'll check my schedule.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhakti-caru Mahārāja suggested that they may have taken the hopping flight from Calcutta, which stops in about three different places. I can just see my airline... I don't have an up-to-date airline schedule, but even the one I have might indicate the afternoon flight. Shall I see it?

Prabhupāda: Everything is theory.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, not really, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's not all theory. We spoke with the man. He went out and got the kavirāja. When we again called Calcutta we were informed that they had left on the plane. I mean there's no reason to suspect that people are lying to us, our own Godbrothers are lying to us. I mean it's so close to the time when they should arrive that we shouldn't become discouraged. I mean right now we could send Śatadhanya Mahārāja to Calcutta, but it would be very bad to do that, because the kavirāja may be five miles out of Vṛndāvana right now. Or he may have just reached Delhi if he came on this propeller plane. We have every reason to believe that he'll be here at any moment. We have no reason to feel that he shouldn't come.

Bhavānanda: He's definitely in transit, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's nothing at all to lead us to feel dismayed that they haven't..., he hasn't... For example... I mean we got the call through to Calcutta by 2:30, and they said that he got the kavirāja and they got on the plane and left. That's very, very positive information. I mean, imagine if someone had picked up the phone in Calcutta and said, "I don't know," or "He couldn't find the kavirāja." But they said, "He got the kavirāja and they got on the plane." That's very, very positive information. Maybe we should read a little bit. That will be a good diversion now.

Prabhupāda: What you'll read?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, the other night... I mean we could read SB.. I'm always eager for you to hear Bhāgavatam. I mean, I wanted to call... I always like to call Pradyumna and Jayādvaita. Of course, that requires... If you wanted to translate, you could make the effort. Otherwise Jayādvaita could read some of the edited work.

Bhakti-caru: He went to Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that Jayādvaita went to Delhi today. Why? (quietly) Irresponsible. He goes. He didn't even tell me. (break) ...read Kṛṣṇa book, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He wants to return as quickly as possible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I personally felt you could go tomorrow even, 'cause I thought that you could actually... I think the earlier you get back to Calcutta the better. But his idea was to leave Sunday, I think.

Vrindavan De: Sunday, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Today is Friday. So he wanted to leave the day after tomorrow. Otherwise everything is ready for him to go whenever he wants it.

Vrindavan De: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Where is the certificates?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I bring them? The certificates are with the bank, but we have the counterfoil identity slips.

Prabhupāda: So give him. Let him go away.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Vrindavan De: Shall I give it to my banker? This? Or to Bank of Baroda?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. You give it to Bank of Baroda.

Vrindavan De: In Calcutta?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Vrindavan De: Ācchā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You give it to Bank of Baroda.

Prabhupāda: Take Chandra with you.

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You are going to Delhi airport in three hours. Then?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then one hour waiting for the plane to take off. That's four hours. Two hours for the plane. That's six hours. And three to four hours to go to Māyāpur. Three hours to go to Māyāpur.

Bhavānanda: It always takes four hours.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (to Bhavānanda:) But that's four hours from the Calcutta temple, not from Dum Dum. No, I'm telling you, you don't have to go through Calcutta at all.

Bhavānanda: It only takes half an hour to get to the airport, and we'll go slow.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then four hours from the Calcutta airport to Māyāpur. Total of ten hours.

Prabhupāda: Four hours?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I'm arguing this point with Bhavānanda Mahārāja, but he insists that he knows, so I'm accepting his statement. Three to four hours.

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So let us go. And keep me in the open air. (pause)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The main thing is that we must present it to the kavirāja that we are depending on his care. If you actually feel this kavirāja to be good and helpful, then we must present it in such a way that "We fully depend upon your treatment. Therefore, as you... We cannot depend on any junior man, because there may be complications at any time. Therefore, when you feel Prabhupāda is ready, you take us to Māyāpur. And if your other business in Calcutta is so pressing, then take us now." And in that way he'll be forced to feel responsible, because he'll see that we are going on his account.

Prabhupāda: Talk like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I won't be able to... I'll talk, but they'll have to translate. Bhakti-caru has to translate. Or Adri-dhāraṇa.

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You can provide five hundred students very easily.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Such a nice building. Who would not like to go to school here in Vṛndāvana? Nice, pure atmosphere. (break) (Bengali)

Śatadhanya: ...Vrindavan, he's going to Delhi. From Delhi he'll go to Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Oh, Vrindavan.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Vrindavan De: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: Where is the money? (Bengali) We cannot put fire in the flesh. (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Upendra, you should get Prabhupāda ready, because the parikrama's ready.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You give him some hint. He was going to talk and you stopped him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Going to what?

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (to Adri-dharaṇa:) Does he have a big practice in Calcutta?

Adri-dharaṇa: Yes, very big practice. He is known for his quality, mixing of drugs.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Acchā. Big practice in Calcutta.

Adri-dharaṇa: On the plane he met another doctor and he chastised him for making diluted drugs. So it seems...

Prabhupāda: Huh? Adri-dharaṇa?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that on the plane he met another doctor so he chastised that other doctor for making diluted drugs. He's known for his upstanding qualities in the mixing of drugs purely.

Adri-dharaṇa: Everything he makes, he claims that he makes by the hand. And he's also recommended by another Rāmānuja āyur-veda. Actually we had gone to see him there and he said to approach this man. He said this is the best man in the field.

Prabhupāda: Who is that man?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who is the other man?

Adri-dharaṇa: That man, Govardhanaji, he is on (indistinct) street, and he was recommended by L. N. Bangor.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who, the other one?

Adri-dharaṇa: Yes.

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So why call Māyāpur? Let him supply the medicine from Calcutta.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Supply the medicine from Calcutta. Well, he said he can give enough medicine now to last I think for about another ten days. Even now.

Prabhupāda: So that is all right.

Bhakti-caru: Yes. The main medicine, we have the supply for ten days already, that, the one that he distilled yesterday.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of course, we can still try and convince him not to go. That would be the best thing.

Prabhupāda: No, he's staying, but actually you are administering his medicine. It doesn't require...

Bhakti-caru: His presence.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Providing everything goes according to his plan. Yes, his presence is simply an encouragement, not necessarily a necessity so far.

Prabhupāda: If he cannot stay, let his medicine remain and let him go. But if you think that I am burden now...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that's not what we think. We will never think that. There will never come that time.

Brahmānanda: We are the burden, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The cars are coming. The tickets are booked. It's not out of the question. Śatadhanya's in Calcutta. (laughter)

Bhakti-caru: But then again there is one advantage, that all along he can lie down. His Divine Grace can lie down.

Upendra: The only time he feels faint is when he's sitting up.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So Upendra says that the time that you get faint is when you're sitting up. If you lay down you don't get faint. If the issue is that you got faint, then that's only because... I've seen you sitting in this bed and getting fainting sometimes, sitting up, fainting. Laying down... You can't faint when you lay down. Fainting is when you're sitting up. But practically the whole time you'll be sitting up, I mean laying down. And neither fainting is not necessarily... That is not a sign of death, fainting.

Prabhupāda: Fainting means of death.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda? I know myself, I have a history where I have fainted more than twenty-five times in my life, and I did not die. I fainted in so many different places. In the subways in New York...

Prabhupāda: You are young man, and I am already dead.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: How?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mr. Das, our friend from Calcutta, can come. It's pretty much now... It's already drafted, and... It would just have to be redrafted again on new stamp paper or the words would have to be changed. It would have to be retyped on stamp paper from Bengal side. The basic writing is...

Prabhupāda: That means unfinished despite unfinished.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) Śrīla Prabhupāda...

Prabhupāda: Hm? It is past nine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So maybe this is the reason we're not going.

Prabhupāda: No. Even if we decide to go, that means despite unfinishing...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I really don't feel that this would be enough of a reason to stay here. The whole consideration of whatever we do is your health. That is the major consideration. Our going was on account of your health; our staying now is on account of your health. These other things may be done or not. That doesn't matter. I work all day doing all of your other businesses only because I know your health is well looked after. Otherwise, if I thought it wasn't, I would drop whatever else I'm doing and simply do this, take care of you here. There's so many qualified men doing that, so I don't... I'm engaging myself in your other businesses. Otherwise the main thing is that first of all you should be..., we should try to help you to get better. And if I say, "If you want to take rest, you take rest and don't be worried that this business may not get done tonight." That is not the issue at all.

Prabhupāda: But how is that they did not come?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is very strange.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's another report, from Africa. Should I read it? It says, "The saṅkīrtana movement in the dark continent." This was written by Jalakāra and Śyāmalāl. Śyāmalāl is a Bengali devotee, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You may remember him from Calcutta? He's gone to Africa to preach, and he and this other boy Jalakāra travel together all over Africa.

Prabhupāda: Yesterday... No, yesterday some prominent men, Dalmiya. Who came?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dalmiya was here, Rāma-Kṛṣṇa Bajaj, Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa, and some gentleman from Auroville Society was here to see you. I think they were participating in that conference, Gītā-pratiṣṭhāna.

Dr. Kapoor: I was also invited. I'm sorry I couldn't come because my wife was very ill.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dr. Kapoor could not attend. His wife was very ill, he said. He couldn't attend the conference. Śrīla Prabhupāda, maybe you should rest now a little bit. Okay. (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: I'm tired.

Bhakti-caru: Ācchā.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Girirāja: Well, he's only made two members. I think he's going to get into it a little more. He doesn't have to be registered to make members, because the two members he made... Tax exemption has to be... Each case is considered individually. There's no system, but the lawyer and other people I spoke to felt that, since it was a Hindu state, and since they wanted to encourage such activities, that they would give us tax exemption. There's even a community of Marwari businessmen. So Prabhaviṣṇu had made one or two members by giving receipts from Calcutta, since we're not registered. So I suggested that he should concentrate on the Marwaris for the time being, and he can give receipts from Calcutta, and that would be good practice, because they are the most willing to become members. And then, by the time he got registered, he could start approaching the Nepali businessmen.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How will the Calcutta receipt help them?

Girirāja: Well, I don't think...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They care much.

Girirāja: No. Just to give them something official. He has seven boys there now, and a few of them ...

Prabhupāda: They are taking their prasādam and living there?

Girirāja: Yes.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What other news?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What other news?

Śatadhanya: Everything is very nice there, very organized. Jayapatākā Mahārāja and Bhavānanda Mahārāja have organized it very nicely. Calcutta is very clean. Also Calcutta was prepared in case your Divine Grace was feeling tired. Then you could have stayed at Calcutta for a day or so and then gone on to Māyāpur. Many life members had come to the airport. Sita Ram Daga...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think we have to go soon, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Actually, to take you to different places is the greatest ecstasy, because there's no greater pleasure the devotees have than when you first arrive, they see you. Their feelings know no bounds. Airport arrivals have always been ecstatic over the years, Śrīla Prabhupāda. The newspapers always remark how ecstatic they are.

Prabhupāda: What is the condition of the road?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This road is hopeless. We have to find an alternate way.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We will have one devotee get on in Agra to reserve a compartment for us, and then we'll board it here in Mathurā, and it arrives in Delhi at about nine-thirty at night, nine forty-five. So then we'll spend the night in Delhi, resting, and then the following morning we'll take the morning flight to Calcutta and Māyāpur. This means also that you won't have to undergo any strenuous journey to Delhi and then immediately take a flight. The train journey is actually much easier than a car journey, and then we get the whole night to rest, which is also good. So basically it just means we take a plane and then the car ride to Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: So I simply go by car from here to Mathurā.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Then we take the Taj Express, which is nonstop to Delhi, then stay in the Delhi temple, which is also nice, overnight, and then we proceed on to Calcutta. The next morning we leave on the plane at six-thirty in the morning and we arrive in Calcutta by about eight-thirty, and we should arrive in Māyāpur by noon. Does it sound like a good plan? Now you simply should gain more and more strength, Śrīla Prabhupāda. This time, until the kavirāja comes, from now until then, you should rest as much as possible, take these medicines. I think it's having a positive effect. You mentioned this morning that when you sit up you feel a little stronger now. I think it's good that you're not taxing yourself in any way. That's important. Would you like to do something specific right now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: What shall I do? (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, Upendra's saying you might like to wash now your face and teeth. When does Prabhupāda wash his body?

Upendra: Two, approximately.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In the afternoon. Maybe I should read some news to you? What would you like to do now, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: News?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I might have a little bit of news. I'll see.

Prabhupāda: In Māyāpur I shall stay in my quarter?

Śatadhanya: Yes, Prabhupāda. Everything is very nicely arranged. There's one nice, big bed, this same size, with nice, soft mattress.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now, of course, there are more devotees who are coming, just like Citsukhānanda Prabhu and others, so they'll also be going. By the time we go, we may be able to rent a third of the plane or something. At least there will be twenty or twenty-five devotees maybe.

Bhavānanda: And then they have big caravan arranged, so from the airport or from Calcutta temple to Māyāpur there will be at least forty devotees going with Your Divine Grace to Māyāpur—the devotees who go and the devotees who greet you there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you like that, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That... The kavirāja that we brought from Calcutta. He's... The thing I liked about him also is I felt that he was the kind of person who I... Somehow I felt that in your childhood or something, that your family would have engaged some such a Marwari... You always said how the Mulliks' house was located amongst many Marwari community people. I was thinking somehow it seemed suitable that this is... Of course we don't designate like that, but somehow it seems suitable that... You know. Marwaris are... They occupy a high place in the community. Everything they do, they do very first class. Their food is first class. They do first-class business. Most of our members are from the Marwari community. Anyway, it just seemed like it was nice that this man...

Prabhupāda: Their food is first class, there is no doubt. Yes... It is certified by Sir P. C. Raya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By who, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: A big chemist.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was his name?

Prabhupāda: Sir P. C. Raya.

Room Conversation -- November 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But stool-passing this many times is not right either. Passing stool five, six times, that is not right. It's obvious that it's a result of something. It's either the medicine or the diet. Prabhupāda says it's the medicine, just like last time when he took that makara-dhvaja, and he was right. It was the medicine. (break) ...the best thing to do. There may be some good effect by taking the medicine in addition to the causing you to pass stool. So if by giving you some other small medicine at the same time, you can still take this medicine and you don't pass stool, then that's the best thing. This only a kavirāja knows. I don't know this. I have no idea. Maybe we should take the help of that... This doesn't seem like a very difficult thing, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Passing stool is something that any kavirāja should be able to treat, and maybe for this small thing we should call that assistant who was here yesterday. That's why that kavirāja from Calcutta arranged for there to be an assistant here, in case... In other words he came and diagnosed the disease, and he made a very complicated thing, medicine that an expert had to make. And for the fact that there might be some side effect, that you may not sleep properly or you might be passing stool, something of this kind, he found out one assistant for the purpose of helping in these cases. So why not carry through with that and take the help of this assistant, see what he says? This is a common ailment that people have, diarrhea or passing stool too often, loose bowels. That's not a very major problem.

Prabhupāda: No, you have to stop.

Room Conversation -- November 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So consult him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. I think this is the time to do that. This is a side effect of taking the medicine. Just giving up taking medicine may solve one problem, but it's not going to solve the main problem. This is to say that we're putting some hope on this kavirāja from Calcutta. If eventually he is shown that his medicine didn't work, then I won't..., I wouldn't say anything. But I'm going on the argument that his medicine is doing some good. So I don't want to see it stopped. So you have no objection if we consult the other kavirāja, do you?

Prabhupāda: What can be done?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. I think this is the purpose for which he was chosen, at such a time like this that he should be consulted. I'll tell Bhakti-caru to consult him. (break)

Bhakti-caru: (Hindi)

Kavirāja assistant: (Hindi)

Śatadhanya: Finished with urine, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhakti-caru, Prabhupāda is talking to you.

Bhakti-caru: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Bhakti-caru: Śrīla Prabhupāda wants him to come every day, once a day, and check him out. (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hundred cc's, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Your urine was 100 cc's.

Prabhupāda: No, urine is all right. Urine, it is all right. I am lying here. He can come conveniently.

Room Conversation -- November 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: In this condition.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, what we have to do is carry on with this medicine, medical treatment, and let the kavirāja come. Then, when he comes from Calcutta, he'll review everything that's happened and he'll see what your condition is like. And if he feels that the liver and kidney have been cleared up a little bit, then he'll begin to give medicine for giving you strength. And we will make him stay here until you get sufficient strength. And if you do get sufficient strength, which means his medicine is working, then he can take you to Māyāpur. And after some days, if he gives you medicine for strength and you don't get any strength, then there's no reason to leave Vṛndāvana. He may go back, but we will stay here. I think that should be our course of action. We certainly... I've looked just now with Upendra, and pretty much, you've increased by about double what you drink and you've increased by about double the amount of urine. But that's not going to give you strength very much. And the kavirāja has also said that he's not giving any medicine for giving strength at this time. Mostly he's giving medicine which should help the kidney and liver. I can't see inside your body to know if your kidney and liver are better. That he has to say. And if he says that it is getting better, then he can give the medicine for giving strength. And that's something that we can notice. Once he gives the medicine for strength, we'll be able to see if you're actually getting strength. After five or six days, if you're not getting any strength, then we'll know that the medicine is not effective. If it is effective, then we can go with him. You'll have more strength and we can go to Māyāpur. He can take us there and we'll carry on. And if for some reason it's not effective, then we have to trust simply in kṛṣṇa-nāma. That we're doing anyway, but that's... We'll have to do exclusively at that point.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Get on...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Does that sound right, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: There is no alternative.

Room Conversation -- November 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What is that sound?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's one of the brahmacārīs shaking out the dust in the rugs. In my office we have some rugs, so he takes them outside and shakes them. He's a nice brahmacārī, young boy from the Gurukula, from Mexico. Is it time to go on, Śrīla Prabhupāda? (break) ...today. So I would meet him last night, and if he was to come this evening I wouldn't think that there would be any harm, that he could come this evening, I think it's not bad in that it sort of sometimes has an effect to encourage the patient if the doctor or kavirāja comes. It's reassuring. So I think it's nice that he comes. There should be someone with a little bit of knowledge who we can consult each day. He may not be as expert as the Calcutta kavirāja. Still, he is more expert than we are. And he was appointed by the Calcutta kavirāja to come and check up on you and see how you are doing, see if there were any side effects. The real question is that your kidney and liver should be getting better. There's no doubt that you're getting weaker now. That I can see. I've never seen you this weak. But according to the...

Prabhupāda: Very weak. I sit up..., oh, everything...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Finished.

Room Conversation -- November 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I cannot.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's difficult. This means you will stop practically getting any nourishment at all now. So then we should call the Calcutta kavirāja. Prabhupāda's not being able to maintain his program. So we'll call the kavirāja from Calcutta, Śrīla Prabhupāda, because now you are not able to keep to the program which he fixed up. And this other kavirāja, he can't do anything this difficult. Usually by this time you've drank about 400 cc's of liquid or more. Today you haven't even drank 100 cc's yet. So in this way you will go back to about two or three weeks ago, when you were planning to depart. So that's a little premature, because we agreed that we will first go through with this program which the kavirāja has given. So now it seems like it's too difficult to do that, so we should call him so that he can...

Prabhupāda: What is the use of calling him?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The use of calling is that he... According to him... This is what I understood. The main problem you're feeling is that you have no strength. This is the sum and substance. There's no strength.

Prabhupāda: So how he can give strength?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How can he give strength? Just like makara-dhvaja is for giving strength.

Prabhupāda: Makara-dhvaja was not giving strength.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that was not makara-dhvaja. That kavirāja said that was not makara-dhvaja.

Bhavānanda: And he also said that in your condition now you can't take makara-dhvaja.

Prabhupāda: I cannot take anything. I feel comfort only lying down.

Room Conversation -- November 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then that means... That means force me and give me trouble.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that we won't do. But I'm suggesting that if we call the kavirāja in Calcutta, he can suggest some medicine which will give you strength. I mean he has not given you any medicines which he claims will give you strength yet. At least we should give him an opportunity.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think it's a good idea to call kavirāja from Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bhavānanda: We're all in agreement that the kavirāja should be called from Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: What he'll do?

Bhavānanda: Well, that's up to him, to decide what to do. We don't know what he will do, but he has medicines which can give you strength. He wanted to wait some time before administering. But now what would be the loss if he administered them to you now? If they're going to work five days from now, they'll work now. Let us try. There's no loss. And if you get strength, then all gain. The kavirāja said that the one great quality that you have in this sickness is your incredible willpower. If you lose your willpower, desire to remain here, then nothing will work. But he said that if you continue with this strong desire to remain, then it will be easy.

Prabhupāda: That strong desire has now disappeared.

Room Conversation -- November 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: How? The young kavirāja, oh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhakti-caru and Śatadhanya have gone to Mathurā, Śrīla Prabhupāda, to call the Shastriji from Calcutta. (Svarūpa Dāmodara and kavirāja assistant—Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What did he say, Svarūpa Dāmodara?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He said that it's a little increased, the heartbeat. There's a little increase in the pulse.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The pulse has increased? That's good. It is stronger or weaker?

Upendra: Did we give him medicine today so far?

Bhavānanda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Which medicine?

Upendra: I don't know. Bhakti-caru never writes which one it is.

Bhavānanda: That one that you boil up.

Room Conversation -- November 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. Śrīla Prabhupāda? Śatadhanya Mahārāja and Bhakti-caru went to Mathurā and they called Calcutta. They spoke with Adri-dhāraṇa? So he's going to bring the kavirāja here.

Prabhupāda: Kavirāja has no telephone.

Bhakti-caru: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda, he has one. He has telephone at home and in his chamber also. But when we rang up, he was not at home.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Therefore we thought it best not to lose any more time but to call Adri-dhāraṇa, because he's proved to be very capable person—he was living with the kavirāja when he was here—and we want Adri-dhāraṇa to bring the kavirāja personally anyway. Also, Girirāja and myself were just with the registrar and we made the correction on the name without any difficulty, so now it's correctly given as "Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust." I wanted that because whenever we gave money from the Trust, I wanted to make a plaque with your name on it, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I thought that would be a nice thing to do. This way, now your name will be properly given. So Śrīla Prabhupāda? The kavirāja will be coming quite soon, and I was thinking that you've been a very good patient, taking all of the medicines which he prescribed. So we should not discontinue it until he comes, because that way we can say to him that you have taken everything exactly as he recommended. That way, he'll know certainly how much his medicine has been effective. If we stop the medicine, then he won't be able to tell exactly. And as he'll be here quite soon, I think that we should just finish taking the medicine until he comes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- November 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. They must be tired. They traveled all night long. The kavirāja didn't sleep at all, I heard. Is that true, Jayapatākā?

Jayapatākā: Yes. The flight was three hours delayed. Three hours he was sitting, and he didn't leave Calcutta... 8:00 flight left at 10:30, 11:00, and arrived in Delhi 1:00. Then it took to 5:00 to get here, so he's quite tired.

Prabhupāda: It did not start on time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, three hours delayed.

Jayapatākā: The flight was late.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So everyone can take rest now.

Jayapatākā: Just seeing Your Divine Grace gives us so much strength.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If you can just request Kṛṣṇa to allow you to stay, Śrīla Prabhupāda... Everyone wants you to stay. (end)

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1977, Vrndavana:

Jayapatākā: Now that your books are being printed in Hindi, in Calcutta, one of our life members, Mr. Tulsan, he got your Hindi Bhāgavatam and Caitanya-caritāmṛta, and he's begun reading, and now he said his whole life is transformed. He said that never he found anywhere that the knowledge was presented so simply and so clearly. All the paṇḍitas he could never understand. So now he's become so enthusiastic he's purchasing four rooms in Māyāpur-two for himself, and he's making two relatives purchase. And every month he comes out with his family, with the whole family. "Instead of going to other recreation," he said, "we'll go to the temple." And he brings big basket of fruit, and he comes out, and they stay for the weekend and they all attend maṅgala-ārati.

Prabhupāda: Four rooms, which side? New?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: New building or the old one?

Jayapatākā: He's going to purchase, I think, two rooms in the old building, and then two rooms in the new building he'll have his friends purchase.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They like the new building also?

Jayapatākā: Yes.

Room Conversation -- November 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhakti-cāru: He was referring to a big murder case in Calcutta, the husband poisoned the wife.

Bhavānanda: Oh yes. Our lawyer is the...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhagatji doesn't think the...

Kavirāja: (Hindi with Bhakti-cāru and Prabhupāda)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No poison is strong enough to stop the hari-nama, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Kavirāja: Yes. (Hindi)

Devotee: Prahlāda Mahārāja.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would you like some more kīrtana, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Lokanātha can lead. Lokanātha, you lead.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lokanātha.

Lokanātha: Not for chanting, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Lokanātha: We just had a big kīrtana, but I could chant more. I have come a long way to see you and chant for you. So if you allow I will chant.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: Your Guru Mahārāja used to have bullock cart travel from Hulorghat (on the bank of the Ganges in Māyāpur) up to the Caitanya Maṭha. You told me you put a nice mattress down in the back and a cover, and you lay down there. You even told me once to go to Calcutta that way. You lay down, at night; you go little bit, little bit; and in the morning, when you wake up, you're in Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Bullock, you get the cow dung.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cook with it.

Jayapatākā: In this part of India it's very cold now for Your Divine Grace.

Prabhupāda: Underneath the tree it is not cold.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You sound like you are very determined to go, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Daytime we expose in the sunshine, and camp underneath a tree at night. That has to be arranged. (Bengali with Bhakti-caru-Prabhupāda drinks something)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, should the devotees take prasādam now?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Page Title:Calcutta (Conversations 1977)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:23 of Dec, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=205, Let=0
No. of Quotes:205