So human civilization does not mean this piling of woods and stones. No. That is not human civilization. Human civilization means brahma-jijñāsā, inquiry. These are the inquiry. "Why? Why I am forced to do this?" These things are taught regularly in the varṇāśrama system. One is made brahmacārī, celibacy, spiritual. One is made a very decently, family life, gṛhastha. One is made retired life, sannyāsī. Very systematical. So if we don't follow the varṇāśrama-dharma, then we are not even human beings. They are cats and dogs. So therefore Rāmānanda Rāya proposed this varṇāśrama... Varṇāśramācāravatā. He quoted from Viṣṇu Purāṇa. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Oh, this is rejected." He immediately rejected. Now, so scientific institution of varṇāśrama-dharma system, coming from very early age, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "This is external. Say something better." So in this way, Rāmānanda Rāya was putting some better proposal than varṇāśrama-dharma. Then varṇāśrama-tyāga. Tyāga means renouncing, renounced order. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu's speaking, "No, no. It is ... It is not very important. Go more."
CC Madhya-lila 08.059 prabhu kahe, -- "eho bahya, age kaha ara"... cited
Expressions researched:
"This is external"
|"eho bahya age kaha ara"
|"eho bahya, age kaha ara"
|"krsne karmarpana"
|"prabhu kahe"
|"raya kahe"
|"sarva-sadhya-sara"
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta
CC Madhya-lila
The Lord replied, "This is external. You had better tell Me of some other means."
Rāmānanda replied, "To offer the results of one's activities to Kṛṣṇa is the essence of all perfection."
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
Simply by becoming devotees of Vāsudeva, vāsudeva-parāyaṇa, everything can be adjusted. When Rāmānanda Rāya answered Caitanya Mahāprabhu about the systematic society of human being, Caitanya Mahāprabhu rejected. He said eho bāhya āge kaha āra. So Śrī Rāmānanda Rāya replied, quoting from other verses from śāstra, karma-tyāga, sannyāsa. In this way, step by step. But when he said that sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ... When Rāmānanda Rāya said that "It doesn't require of any change. Simply if people giving up his own endeavor to understand what is God, what is life. Simply if he remains humbly and hears from the real authority, then by hearing only he can conquer Ajita." Ajita is Bhagavān.
So this is the classification of a society. And there is another classification which is called spiritual developmental classification. The brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsī. Brahmacārī means student life, student life to acquire knowledge. And gṛhastha life is householder. After acquiring knowledge, one may get himself married with a suitable girl and live peacefully in the society—for spiritual cultivation. Everything for spiritual cultivation. And then vānaprastha, retired life; then sannyāsa, renounced order of life. So Rāmānanda Rāya explained these four principles, four divisions of social order and spiritual development, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu immediately said, "Oh, this is not for Me." Eho bāhya āge kaha āra. "This is external. If you know something better than this, then you explain."
So as I told you, Rāmānanda Rāya, the discussion between Rāmānanda Rāya and Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Rāmānanda Rāya proposed different steps of spiritual advancement, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Yes, this is good, but this is external. It is not very effective." Even sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), that also Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "It is also not effect." It is not effective for these go-kharas. Otherwise it is effective. But in the beginning, they cannot. Otherwise in the Bhagavad-gītā it is plainly said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). Who is taking it? Nobody is taking it. Therefore it is not effective for the go-kharas. It is effective for one who is actually human being, but they are not human being. They are all rascals, go-kharas. Therefore it is not effective.
So Caitanya Mahāprabhu knew that these cats and dogs, they are so degraded, they cannot understand what is the meaning of surrendering to Kṛṣṇa. They cannot understand. Therefore He said, eho bāhya, āge kaha āra: "This is external. Please speak more, something effective." So when Rāmānanda Rāya said, jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta... This is a statement given by Brahmā. Jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva san-mukharitāṁ vārtām, bhavadīya-vārtām, sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir ye prāyaśo 'jita jito 'py asi tais tri-lokyām.
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
So this varṇāśrama-dharma was proposed by Rāmānanda Rāya, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya āge kaha āra: "This is not feasible. Better if you know something better than this, you propose." Because Caitanya Mahāprabhu knew that in the Kali-yuga, practically the varṇāśrama-dharma will never be observed, or it will be very difficult to observe. So people by simply observing the varṇāśrama-dharma will not be able to make very much progress in devotional service. Stereotype. In this way, gradually, Śrī Rāmānanda Rāya presented so many proposals. Varṇāśrama-tyāga, jñāna, jñāna-miśra-bhakti, so many ways, and Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu rejected all of them. Eho bāhya āge kaha āra.
Śrīdhara Svāmī gives note that if you become a rigid religious person, that does not mean (chuckling) God will be satisfied with you. That is preliminary stage. Dharmārtha-kāma-mokṣa (SB 4.8.41). If one religious man... But that is not the qualification. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was talking with Rāmānanda Rāya, He, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, inquired what is the aim of life and what is the procedure of achieving that aim. He prescribed this varṇāśrama-dharma. Because that is the beginning of actual human life, accepting four varṇas and four āśramas. Caitanya Mahāprabhu immediately rejected, eho bāhya āge kaha āra. These are not very important things. Just see.
The whole Vedic civilization is resting on the varṇāśrama-dharma.
- varṇāśramācāravatā
- puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān
- viṣṇur ārādhyate panthā
- nānyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam
- (CC Madhya 8.58)
That is the statement, that one who is rigidly performing the rules and regulation of these four varṇas and āśramas... Varṇāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān viṣṇur ārādhyate. Simply by following the rules and regulation, varṇāśrama system, one can worship Viṣṇu. Viṣṇur ārādhya... Nānyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam. There is no alternative to satisfy Him. That... This is an authorized statement. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya āge kaha āra, "This is external. This is not very important thing. If you know something more, that you can say." Eho bāhya āge kaha āra. Āge kaha āra.
Anyway, if we want to, I mean to say, abolish all kinds of anarthas, unwanted things, then we must take to bhakti-yoga. Then everything will be clear. Everything will be clear, very clear. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ. This śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ, just like you are so kind enough to come here to hear about Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, by this process. This has been recommended by Caitanya Mahāprabhu: sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. You remain in your place. You don't require to become a sannyāsī, mendicant, or brahmacārī, or change your place. No. When Rāmānanda Rāya quoted this verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam to Caitanya Mahāprabhu... He was discussing about the aim of life and the process of reaching the aim of life. He mentioned so many things—karma, jñāna, yoga, etc., so many things. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya, āge kaha āra: "Yes, this statement is not very important. If you know still further more, you can say." So in this way, step by step... When Rāmānanda Rāya came to this conclusion, that
- jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva
- jīvanti san-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām
- sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir
- ye prāyaśo 'jita jito 'py asi tais tri-lokyām
This is the statement, that remain in your place, but hear from the authorities about Kṛṣṇa, then everything will be clear. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ (SB 1.2.17).
There was discussion between Rāmānanda Rāya and Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So Rāmānanda Rāya began from varṇāśrama-dharma. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu rejected-rejected not wholly. Eho bāhya āge kaha āra: "Yes, this is not bad, but it is not so important." Eho bāhya āge kaha āra: "If you know something more..." In this way, gradually, step by step, Rāmānanda Rāya said, "The ultimate goal of life is this," "is that," "is that." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said all of them as external, at least in this age. It is very difficult. Just like in the beginning Rāmānanda Rāya said that varṇāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān (CC Madhya 8.58). He gave stress on the institution of varṇa and āśrama, to observe the rules and regulation of varṇas, four varṇas—to become brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra—and four āśramas: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha... But Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya, bāhya: "Yes, it is good, but it is not so, mean, important, not so important."
This is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
- jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva
- jīvanti san-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām
- sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir
- ye prāyaśo 'jita jito 'py asi tais tri-lokyām
This was quoted from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam by Rāmānanda Rāya about the process of approaching Kṛṣṇa. So he suggested so many things. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Yes, but better process is there. If you know, just describe." So he described, varṇāśrama-dharma, sannyāsa, jñāna-miśra-bhakti, karma-miśra-bhakti, in this way, everything Kṛṣṇa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu rejected. Eho bāhya āge kaha āra. "This is external. This is not very good. If you know something more better, you speak." So when at last he said this verse, jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva... If one becomes submissive and does not endeavor to understand Kṛṣṇa by his so-called limited knowledge, jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta, one has to become sub... The whole devotional department is submissiveness. Because under the influence of māyā, everyone is falsely proud. "Oḥ, I am so intelligent. I can do everything." This is the disease, material. Everyone is falsely proud.
Tama means darkness. Here they are so-called scholars, big big professor, scientist, and... but they are in the darkness, tama. Tama means darkness. They do not know what they are. Ask any scientist, any philosopher, "What you are?" He will say, "I am this body. I am Indian. I am American. I am white. I am black. I am this. I am that. I am Christian. I am Hindu." He will say. But all these designation is outward, external. Eho bāhya, āge kaha āra. But everyone is going on, big, big man, identifying himself with this body. So they are all fools, tama, in darkness.
- yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke
- sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ
- yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij
- janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ
- (SB 10.84.13)
So according to Vedic civilization, any person, he may be very big man, but if he does not know beyond his body, then he is no better than animal. This is Vedic version.
So Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He knew that this is Kali-yuga; it is very, very difficult to engage people strictly in the varṇāśrama-dharma. Actually it is difficult. Who is going... If you open a varṇāśrama college, there will be no student. Because they will think, "What is this nonsense, varṇāśrama? Let us learn technology. We shall get good salary. We shall earn money." Yes. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu immediately said, eho bāhya, āge kaha āra. In this age it is not possible, varṇāśrama-dharma. So āge kaha āra: "If you know something better than this, you say." So in this way Rāmānanda Rāya recommended that karma-tyāga, sannyāsa, so many stages. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu went on saying, eho bāhya āge kaha āra: "This is useless now. If you know better, then something, something." So then at last—not at last, in the middle—Rāmānanda Rāya said that jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva..., namanta eva, bhavadīya-vārtām, sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. The purport is that all these processes recommended in the śāstra, varṇāśrama-dharma, acceptance of sannyāsa, or other, karma-tyāga, miśra, karma-miśra-jñāna... There are so many things.
Viṣṇu worship is not always devotional service. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was presented by Rāmānanda Rāya about Viṣṇu worship, He said, "No, no. This is not the right description. You go further." You'll find in the... Yes. "You go further." Eho bāhya āge kaha āra. Because unless they understand what Viṣṇu..., simple official Viṣṇu worship will not help. One has to become real devotee. Anyābhilāṣitā... Generally goes to Viṣṇu for asking something, or any other demigod, they go. People are very much addicted to material enjoyment. Either he goes to śuddha-bhakti... This bhakti means śuddha-bhakti. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11).
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that it is giving immediate lift to everyone to come to the transcendental platform, brahma-bhūyāya kalpate. But general state is varṇāśrama-dharma. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when he was discussing with Rāmānanda Rāya, he first of all said, "What is the aim of life?" Caitanya Mahāprabhu (was) asking. So Rāmaṇanda Raya replied that "First of all to begin this varṇāśrama dharma." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya, āge kaha āra: "Yes, this is all right. But this is external. If you know something better, please tell me." So in this way, step by step, Caitanya Mahāprabhu... This varṇa, āśrama, dharma, karma-tyāga, karma-sannyāsa, and karma-miśra-bhakti, jñāna-miśra-bhakti—everything was described by Rāmānanda Rāya, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu not rejected. He said, "It is all right, but if you know something better..." Then at last, when Rāmānanda said... (aside:) Stop it. When Rāmaṇanda said that, quoting one verse from Śrīmad-Bhagavatam, sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ, that it doesn't matter what you are. You remain in your post. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatām. Through the oral reception if you hear about Kṛṣṇa, then you become perfect. That is the statement.
So material conditions, they are not practically applicable to spiritual life. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, therefore, He said, eho bāhya āge kaha āra. Whatever Rāmānanda Rāya was proposing, "This is the beginning of bhakti..." He suggested varṇāśrama-dharma, karma-tyāga, karma-sannyāsa, even full surrender, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). All, everything, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya āge kaha: "These are external formality. If you know something better than this, please explain." So Rāmānanda Rāya, when, I mean to say, quoted a verse from Brahma's prayer, sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ prāyeṇa ajita api jito... Kṛṣṇa is ajita. Nobody can conquer Him. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7).
So the fact is that bhakti does not depend on such poverty or richness. That is to be understood. It is not that the poverty-stricken man will be a great devotee. No. That is also not a qualification. And it is also not a qualification that a very rich man can become devotee. No. Therefore, Caitanya Mahāprabhu suggests... Not the suggestion of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, it is in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. Sthāne sthitāḥ. You remain in your place, it doesn't matter. In your consideration whether you are rich or poor, it doesn't matter. You remain in your position. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatām. You simply give your oral reception. What is that oral reception? San-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām. San-mukharitām: those who are devotees, from their mouth you try to understand the glories of the Lord. This is the first-class qualification. Not that to become rich or poor. Richness or poverty is no hampering. Because spiritual life is so great, so sublime, that is this ahaitukī hata. No material thing can check your spiritual progress. The only qualification you require, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted when he was talking with Rāmānanda Rāya, he was prescribing one after another different processes. Karma, jñāna, yoga, dhyanavista, bhakti, so many things, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu was denying one after another, eho bāhya āge kaha, "This is not. This is external." He began from the varṇāśrama-dharma, because that is the beginning of civilization.
- varṇāśramācāravatā
- puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān
- viṣṇur ārādhyate panthā
- nānyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam
- (CC Madhya 8.58)
Because unless one comes to the institute of varṇāśrama-dharma—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa, gṛhastha—they are not considered as civilized. So he began from this, Rāmānanda Rāya. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu said eho bāhya āge kaha, "This is external. If you know something more, you can explain." Then he recommended karma-tyāga. That is also Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya, "It is external." In this way, when Rāmānanda quoted one verse from Brahmā's prayer in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva jīvanti san-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām. Jñāne prayāsam. Brahmā recommended that one should not endeavor by his individual effort to approach the Supreme Personality of Godhead. One's business should be that he may not change his position.
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
So varṇāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān (CC Madhya 8.58). This is the beginning of actual human life. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu immediately replied, ihā bāhya āge kaha āra. Ihā bāhya. Bāhya means this is external. This will not very much help at the present moment. And actually that is being done. Just like we are preaching in the Western countries. If we wanted to establish varṇāśrama-dharma in the beginning, that "You become brāhmaṇa, you become gṛhastha, you become sannyāsī..." No. Then everyone would have rejected: "Sir, we are prepared for this purpose." But the process introduced by Caitanya Mahāprabhu... It is not introduced by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. It is the sanction in the śāstras: śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam (SB 7.5.23).
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
"Now, offering respect to Lord Caitanya, he began to say..."
- ihāṅ āisa, gosāi āisa, śunaha śrīpāda
- apavitra sthāne vaisa, kibā avasāda
"O my dear Sir, why You are sitting so distant place and a filthy place? Please come here. Sit with us."
Prabhu kahe,—āmi ha-i hina-sampradāya. Now, Caitanya Mahāprabhu because He heard the criticism by this Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī that "This Caitanya Mahāprabhu, who has come in Benares, He is not very learned," therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu's replying him that "I belong to the lower-class sannyāsī. Therefore I am sitting in this filthy place. You better sit in higher places."
- prabhu kahe—āmi ha-i hina-sampradāya
- tomā-sabāra sabhāya vasite nā yuyāya
"So I am not fit to sit with you," Caitanya Mahāprabhu replied.
- āpane prakāśānanda hātete dhariyā
- vasāilā sabhā-madhye sammāna kariyā
He was learned man, Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī. He could understand the hint given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He himself personally went to receive Caitanya Mahāprabhu and caught His hand: "Please come here. Sit with us. Why You are sitting here?"
Now, next, tomorrow, we shall discuss about their talks. Thank you very much.
Festival Lectures
The beginning of real human civilization is observance of the institute of four varṇas and four āśramas. That is the beginning of civilized life. Otherwise, it is not civilized life; it is crude, uncivilized life, where there is no varṇāśrama, where there (is) no division of society according to work and quality and āśrama, spiritual life division. So Rāmānanda Rāya recommended this verse, that this is the process to satisfy the Supreme Lord Viṣṇu. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that eho bāhya āge kaha āra, "This is external. If you know something more, better than this, you say." Why He said? There is the version, viṣṇur ārādhyate. Does it mean that He is rejecting Viṣṇu worship? No, He's not rejecting. Because generally, they, these impersonalists, Māyāvādīs, they also worship sometimes Viṣṇu, these five demigods and God. But their idea is that ultimately impersonal. The impersonal takes the form by the help of this material world. The formation takes place simply in the material. That is their opinion. Therefore they say, call, saguṇa. Saguṇa-upāsanā.
Conversations and Morning Walks
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: This is the first time that systematically we are presenting what is actual Vedic dharma or Bhāgavata-dharma. This question was raised by Rāmānanda Rāya before Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Varṇāśrama, he quoted this verse from Viṣṇu Purāṇa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya, āge kaha āra. "Yes, it is all right, varṇāśrama-dharma, but it is now external. If you know something better, you speak." So in this way the whole system was discussed. At last Caitanya Mahāprabhu approved this system of śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). Chanting and hearing about Viṣṇu. Varṇāśrama-dharma is also Viṣṇu. Viṣṇur ārādhyate. The real purpose is understanding Viṣṇu the Supreme. So varṇāśrama-dharma is also meant for understanding Viṣṇu. Viṣṇur ārādhyate. So... But these formulas of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, it is the, the age is so rotten that it is very difficult to revive this varṇāśrama-dharma culture. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya, āge kaha āra. Yes, it is all right, but it is external now. It cannot be utilized at the present moment. So when Rāmānanda Rāya stated, citing one verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir ye prāyaśo 'jita jito 'py asi tais tri-lokyām. If one simply hears about Viṣṇu, never mind in whatever condition he is, then he can understand what is God. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatām. Śruti-gatām means hearing. Receiving from the ear.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu you have read in the eighth chapter, Madhya-līlā, talk between Rāmānanda Rāya and Caitanya Mahāprabhu? So "Perfectional life how begins?" This question was raised by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and Rāmānanda replied, "It begins with the varṇāśrama-dharma, regulated social life."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He rejected that.
Prabhupāda: Not rejected. "Yes, it is not very important." Eho bāhya: "This is external." Āge kaha āra: "If you know something more." So the varṇāśrama-dharma is a good help undoubtedly, but it is not important for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise how could I start this movement in the Western country? There was no varṇāśrama-dharma. But that did not hamper my movement. Now people are surprised: "How these people have become such great devotees." So it was not based on varṇāśrama-dharma, no, because the whole movement is spiritual. It starts from the spiritual platform, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109).
| Page Title: | CC Madhya-lila 08.059 prabhu kahe, -- "eho bahya, age kaha ara"... cited |
| Compiler: | MadhuGopaldas |
| Created: | 11 of May, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=1, OB=0, Lec=20, Con=2, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 23 |