By birth (Conv. and Letters)

Expressions researched:
"By Birth"

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...first speak in detail about Ṭhākura Haridāsa's disappearance. So tell me maybe how you want it to be performed.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ṭhākura Haridāsa was living in a cottage which was... Just like I am living here, and the garage site a little far off, Haridāsa was living a little distance. So when Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to go to the sea for taking bath, He every day, every morning He used to go to Haridāsa Ṭhākura and taking his informa..., "Haridāsa, what you are doing?" Because Haridāsa was Mohammedan by birth, so out of his meekness he did not go to the temple. But in those... Especially in those days they were very strict. They do not allow anyone except Hindus to enter the temple. Nowadays, of course, there is law. If somebody is, actually has come to the Hindu way of life, he's allowed. Our Jayagovinda and others were allowed to see Jagannātha temple.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: There are many instances. But this very word, "by birth one is śūdra," so there is no discrimination that "You are not śūdra. I am not...," by birth, abodha-jāto, because he is born foolish rascal. Now, by saṁskāra, by culture, by education, he becomes dvija, second birth. The practical example is these European and American students. They were doing all nonsense but since they have come to guru their life is reformed; therefore they are dvija. Saṁskārad bhaved dvijaḥ, veda-paṭhet... Now, when he becomes dvija, then he is allowed to study Vedas, not as a śūdra. When we say śūdra has no right to study Vedas, that means he will not be able to understand. Just like you became lawyer, but the condition is, unless you become graduate, unless you have graduated yourself, you cannot enter law college. That does not mean law is prohibited for anyone. It is open for everyone, but first of all you make yourself university graduate; then enter law. Similarly, everyone is śūdra.

Interview with Reporters -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa conscious means brāhmaṇa. Brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ.

Reporter: Not by birth?

Prabhupāda: Not by birth. They are brāhmaṇas by quality. They have got sacred thread. That is also there in the śāstra. Yasya hi yad lakṣaṇaṁ syat. Varṇa has been given. Varṇa. Varṇa, we want to compare symptoms. The brāhmaṇas are this: satya, samaḥ, damaḥ, titikṣa, ārjavam, jñānam vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). This is the symptom of brāhmaṇa. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. If you find these symptoms anywhere, he is a brāhmaṇa.

Reporter: Except those who believe in Bhagavad-gītā, not (indistinct), sir. They don't believe in that. They believe caste by birth.

Prabhupāda: He does not know what is Bhagavad-gītā.

Reporter: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: I say he does not know what is Bhagavad-gītā. If he believes in that way, that he does not know about Gītā.

Interview with Reporters -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Not by birth. Kṛṣṇa never says...

Reporter: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: No, no. These four castes... Not caste. We say caste, but varṇāśrama varṇa. Varṇa. Anyway, it is division. That division, vibhāga, the exact word is "division," not "caste." How you can say caste, it is not there, difference? Division, these four divisions are there. So these divisions are not made by birth. Just like if you are a lawyer. So in the society there are lawyers, engineers, medical men, they are divisions. But these lawyers, medical men or engineers, they are not born as engineer or as lawyer. That is mistake. Anyone who is qualified by the real knowledge, he is a lawyer. Not by birth. Suppose a lawyer's son, a big, big lawyer's son, does it mean that he's lawyer?

Reporter: No. But this is what we have been (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: So you have been something mistake. That should not be accepted.

Reporter: Well, sir, you should know the problem all that there is a...

Prabhupāda: What is that problem?

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Change, I say. How the changes take place? You are changing. You are changing from your childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood. So there is a plan. Unless there is plan, why one child is not, by chance, becomes immediately old. What the nonsense will reply? Let the rascal reply this, that here is a chance, that one child immediately becomes old man, by chance. Why there is process? This is plan. So you should have depth of knowledge, otherwise you will be carried away by these rascals. We cannot be carried away by these rascals. We never so easily believed that they are going to the moon planet. You see? We have to scrutinize everything. Yes. That is brahminical qualification. A brāhmaṇa will not accept anything simply because it is said by some rascal. A śūdra will accept because he has no intelligence. That is the difference between brāhmaṇa and śūdra. It is not a caste system. It is classi..., guṇa karma vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), division of high qualities and actual activities according to that quality. They misinterpreted. Because by the influence of Kali-yuga everyone is śūdra, so he does not know what is the actually brahminical qualification. Therefore there is, I mean to say, competition: "Why this man should be done?(known?) I am as good as he is, and why he should be called brāhmaṇa? He should be given greater facility?" So actually it has happened so. A so-called brāhmaṇa, caste brāhmaṇa, he is working his intelligence like śūdra, and he is claiming, by birthright, brāhmaṇa. There must be protest. This has happened. Otherwise, that division is perfect, guṇa karma vibhāgaśaḥ. Anyone who comes to that quality, he becomes brāhmaṇa. That is the injunction of the śāstra. Kṛṣṇa says guṇa karma vibhāgaśaḥ. You have no qualification, you do not work according to your quality, and why you are claiming a brāhmaṇa? That is self-evident. Guṇa karma vibhāga. He never said by birth, never said. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. "In this age, Kali-yuga, all śūdras." Therefore they accept everything cheaply and at once, the śūdras.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: Then you just hear. Don't make yourself laughing stock.

Guest (2): No, what I mean is brāhmaṇa means by birth or by action or...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Not by birth. By action.

Guest (2): By action only.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (2): You don't recognize brāhmaṇas by birth, then.

Prabhupāda: No no. Then how they are becoming brāhmaṇas? They are not by birth brāhmaṇa? Why don't you see yourself? They are brāhmaṇa.

Guest (2): So if there is a brāhmaṇa by birth, if he doesn't...

Prabhupāda: No, there is no brāhmaṇa by birth. That is not sanctioned by the śāstra.

Guest (2): Oh, I see. So there is no real brāhmaṇa by birth.

Prabhupāda: No. There is no... That is not sanctioned by the śāstra. That is artificial.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: Yes. We... Our... This philosophy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, according to the Bhagavad-gītā and Bhāgavata, we don't accept brāhmaṇa by birth. We accept brāhmaṇa by quality. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Quality and work.

Guest (2): What are your qualifications for a śūdra?

Prabhupāda: Śūdra is serving others. Get some salary and be satisfied. That's all. He has no more culture. That is śūdra. He cannot live independently. Anyone who serves others for his livelihood, he's a śūdra. A brāhmaṇa never serves anyone, a kṣatriya never serves anyone, a vaiśya never serves anyone. A śūdra... Paricaryātmakaṁ karma śūdrasyāpi svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). They want some service: "Give me some money, sir. I am helpless." "All right, you work like this." That is śūdra.

Guest (2): So in other words, all dependent employees, they're all śūdras.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the statement of the śāstra. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ: "In the Kali-yuga everyone is śūdra."

Guest (2): So only those who have independent means, then, would come in the...

Prabhupāda: They can be counted, yes. Because a brāhmaṇa is advised not to accept service at any circumstances. That is the injunction of the śāstra. He can take the profession of a kṣatriya or a vaiśya, but not the śūdra. That is brāhmaṇa.

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: Oh. Mexico is very nice city. I have gone there.

Guest (2): Being a brāhmaṇa by birth, does it mean anything?

Prabhupāda: No, they are not born of brāhmaṇa father. Now they are brāhmaṇas.

Guest (2): But you were saying about brāhmaṇas, so I...

Prabhupāda: Brāhmaṇas means qualified brāhmaṇas. When you say engineer, that means qualified engineer, not born engineer. Engineer is not born. "Because his father is engineer, he is engineer." And what is this? You become engineer. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). There must be qualification and work; otherwise what kind of brāhmaṇa? (Hindi) These are all milk preparation. We can make so many hundreds and thousands of milk preparation. Instead of cutting the throat of the cows, why don't you use her milk? Dallas is a great place for cutting the throat of cows?

Śyāmasundara: All over Texas.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest (2): Fort Worth.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Then he accepted that "You are a brāhmaṇa," because he is talking truth.

Professor: The truth, satyam.

Prabhupāda: That is the sign.

Professor: The sign. It's a well-known story.

Prabhupāda: Therefore, by birth, a brāhmaṇa is not made. By character.

Professor: Yes, I agree with that. And what about girls? Do you initiate girls? Or not?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Professor: Do you initiate girls?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. So many girls. Striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim.

Professor: That's...

Prabhupāda: Find out this verse, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya. Give him, Paṇḍita Mahāśaya.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is not. No, no, no. No, that is not śāstra. That is a... Lately, this brahminical class, they made it. Just like he is a manager in the bank. His son does not mean that he is also manager. He must be qualified to become a manager. He has got the facility. Because he is son of a bank manager, so he can get some facilities, father's training. He can quickly become a manager. Others may take time. Similarly, a person born in brāhmaṇa family, if his father is actually brāhmaṇa, then automatically he is getting the brahminical training at home. This satya, śama, dama, titikṣā, ārjavam (BG 18.42), this qualification. Because naturally the children follow the father. So if the father is a real brāhmaṇa, then he naturally becomes. But if by chance he develops the śūdra quality, then he must be accepted as śūdra, not as a brāhmaṇa. That is the śāstra. Yad anyatrāpi dṛśyeta tat tenaiva vinirdiśet (SB 7.11.35). If the qualities, brahminical qualities are found somewhere else in śūdra or a vaiśya, then he should be accepted as brāhmaṇa. Similarly if śūdra qualities are found in the son of a brāhmaṇa, he should be accepted as śūdra. It is the quality, not the birth. That is not a fact. They have made it now like that. Because without any qualification, if he can become a brāhmaṇa, why he should not take the advantage? That has fallen down the Vedic culture in India, when it came to the caste system. It is not the caste system by birth. In Bhagavad-gītā it is said, "By quality..." guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. Read that, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13).

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1973, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: That should be the platform.

Guest: Because if a brāhmaṇa goes on drinking and abusing...

Prabhupāda: That is not brāhmaṇa. How can that be brāhmaṇa? That is a śūdra, caṇḍāla. Then what is the difference between a.... But they are claiming brāhmaṇa by birth. That is not allowed in the śāstra.

Guest: No, no.

Prabhupāda: It is not allowed.

Guest: It is by our actions and faults(?).

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is said by Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Never says birth. Guṇa-karma, quality and karma.

Guest: One thing more I can do here for all the devotees...(break)

Prabhupāda: ...Sanskrit teaching in our books.

Guest: Language also.

Prabhupāda: Language doesn't matter. Suppose if I address your wife, "mātā" or if I call, "mother". It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter.

Guest: No.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But what is your superiority. You're a servant now. You're śūdra. You're not even a brāhmaṇa. Superiority by simply explanation will not do. You must be (indistinct). Guṇa, karma, superiority means guṇa, karma. You must have the quality and you must work in that quality. You're a scientist, but after a few generation, a foolish boy in your family say, "We belong to the scientist's family." So what is the use of saying like that? You must become scientist. When you are a scientist then you are superior not by simply... This has killed the Indian, I mean Vedic culture when they began to claim superiority simply by birth without any qualification. That killed the whole civilization.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Guṇa, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. Not by birth. Guṇa-karma. Just like you are kṣatriya, but because you have acquired the qualification of medical man and you are working as a medical man, therefore you are medical man. Nobody asked you, "You are a kṣatriya or a brāhmaṇa." You are a medical man.

Dr. Patel: Medical... You know, I think medical work is it brahminical or śūdric also?

Prabhupāda: That we shall consider later on.

Dr. Patel: (laughs) 'Cause I'll not say now so that I will drive out my doubt about me.

Prabhupāda: It is half-brāhmaṇa.

Dr. Patel: No, that is all right. At least, little brāhmaṇa is good.

Guest (2): It is vaidyic. All vaidyas are brāhmaṇas.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, vaidyas means father brāhmaṇa, mother śūdra. That is vaidya.

Dr. Patel: They are sūtas.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I will talk. Why he is described in the śāstra as rākṣasa? And not only that... I do not know whether here. In Delhi have seen Rāma-līlā, the effigy of Rāvaṇa is beaten with shoes sometimes. But actually he was a great devotee of Lord Śiva. Everyone knows. And he was so big devotee that Lord Śiva gave him all benedictions, "Whatever you want." So why this Rāvaṇa is described in the śāstra as rākṣasa? Why he is not described as a saintly person? He was a brāhmaṇa by birth. He was born of a brāhmaṇa father, and he was great student of Vedas. Materially he was very opulent so that he could control even the demigods. He was so powerful. Still, with all this qualification, why he is described as rākṣasa? You answer this point.

Indian man (2): Because he had some fight with... So kāma, krodha, moha, lobha, he had that also... (break)

Prabhupāda: He is not a devotee of the Lord. So anyone... That is our criterion. Anyone who is not a devotee, whatever he may be... He may be very, very big or so-called saintly, but according to the description of the śāstras, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). We shall calculate in that way. As soon as we...

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Even a man is born in the brāhmaṇa family, but if he is working as something else, so he should be... Practically also... Just like somebody is paṇḍita, brāhmaṇa, but if he is doing the work of an engineer or doctor, he is addressed as "Doctor Saheb." That is practical. "Doctor Saheb. Engineer Saheb." Not "Paṇḍitji."

Indian man (5): By birth he may be brāhmaṇa like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. By birth, there is no brāhmaṇa. By saṁskāra. Saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. That is...

Indian man (4): Birthright is not brāhmaṇa. No birthright.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Indian man (4): Provided he has got the particular saṁskāra. (Hindi) That is the beginning of it.

Prabhupāda: Ah, that is the beginning of saṁskāra. There is regular ceremony.

Indian man (5): But a very few people nowadays...

Prabhupāda: Still in Bengal, when the husband meets first the wife, there is saṁskāra. There is regular pūjā, patha. Then the husband and wife meet together. We had the same saṁskāra in our family. It was going on.

Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Nitāi:

sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya

murtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ

tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir

ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā

(BG 14.4)

"It should be understood that all species of life, O son of Kuntī, are made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seed-giving father."

Prabhupāda: That's it. So from God's standpoint of view, we cannot take simply that simply to serve the human being is to serve God. Another point is that living entities, the service, according to Sanskrit conception, service is offered to the superior. And to the inferior, mercy. There are two words. Sevā, the Sanskrit word, sevā, and dayā. You know something of Sanskrit?

Monsignor Verrozano: Somewhat, yes.

Prabhupāda: Seva means service. So service is offered to the superior. And to the inferior or subordinate, we offer our compassion. So similarly, as we are eager to give service, similarly, we should be eager to be compassionate. So it is not very good idea. Just like in India they say, daridra-nārāyaṇa. Some nation, that to give service to the human being, and cut the throat of the animals. This philosophy is not good.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Nitāi:

sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya

mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ

tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir

ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā

(BG 14.4)

"It should be understood that all species of life, O son of Kuntī, are made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seed-giving father."

Prabhupāda: Yes. The father is God, and they are all sons. But they have, they have been given different types of dress according to karma. So when actually one loves God, he loves all of them as brothers, not that only human being. That is not love of God. Then he does not know what is God. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll not find a single sentence where it is recommended that "Only love the human being." There is no such thing.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: That's it. You may be scientist, you may be something else, but if you try to satisfy the Supreme Lord by your occupation, that is perfection. That is perfection. Read the purport.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Human society all over the world is divided into four castes and four orders of life. The four castes are the intelligent caste, the martial caste, the productive caste and the laborer caste. These castes are classified in terms of one's work and qualification and not by birth. Then again there are four orders of life, namely the student life, the householder's life, the retired and the devotional life. In the best interest of human society there must be such divisions of life, otherwise no social institution can grow in a healthy state. And in each and every one of the abovementioned divisions of life, the aim must be to please the supreme authority of the Personality of Godhead. This institutional function of human society is known as the system of varṇāśrama-dharma, which is quite natural for the civilized life. The varṇāśrama institution is constructed to enable one to realize the Absolute Truth.

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: But we are giving you the process of cleansing. Why you are persisting to remain unclean? We are giving you the medicine. We are all unclean. Now we are attempting and we are becoming clean. Why don't you come and be cleansed? (break) ...Navadvīpa. From the day you arrive there, you'll be cleansed. I have got such a nice place. Come there, and stay, according to our rules and regulations. He'll be cleansed. One may be diseased but there are so many clinics, so many physicians, cleaning. Why should you insist to remain unclean? (break) That is accepted. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ (?). By birth, everyone is a śūdra. Śūdra means unclean. Saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. But he takes to the reformatory methods, he becomes cleansed, dvija, twice-born, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Satsvarūpa:

sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya

mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ

tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir

ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā

(BG 14.4)

"It should be understood that all species of life, O son of Kuntī, are made possible by birth in this material nature and that I am the seed giving father."

Prabhupāda: Just see. Material nature is the mother. Material nature gives the body. But the soul is part and parcel of God. A soul is given, impregnated in the material nature, and they come out in so many species of life. How easily it is explained. So self-realization we explain that samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, equality to all living entities. But because they have no spiritual knowledge, they think that humanitarian work means to give all facility to the human being and not to the animals. We are talking of nationalism. National means anyone who has taken birth in that land. That is the definition of nationalism. But they are taking care of the human being who has taken birth in that land, but poor animals, they are being slaughtered.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Yes, one who is seeking service like dog. The dog goes door to door and moves his tail: "Give me some food. Give me some..."

Guest (2): Is it determined by jāti, by birth?

Prabhupāda: No. His quality... He has no quality.

Guest (2): Spiritual type.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not spiritual type, it..., material type. He cannot maintain himself independently. Nowadays people are being educated highly, but if there is no service he has no value.

Guest (2): So the tamasi.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He has no value. I have seen one doctor of chemistry—he could not get any service—in Allahabad. His name was Raghunātha Mitri(?), Dr. Raghunātha Mitri. So he was living at the cost of his father-in-law and making some soap and going to the shop for selling, doctor. That means he could not get any service. Now his independence was to manufacture some soap as ordinary man is doing. But he was chemist; he could not do anything. He could manufacture some soap. So in spite of high education, because he could not get a good job, he had no value.

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: And it was so nice to live there, spiritual atmosphere, on the bank of the Ganges and Yamunā. Immediately you go, you become spiritualized. Vṛndāvana is also like that. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, bhārata-bhūmite janma haila, manuṣya-janma haila. To get the human form of life born in India, that is a special prerogative. Bhārata-bhumite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41). He is fifty percent-prepared by birth.

Brahmānanda: Just by birth.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And then, by culture, another fifty percent. But they have given up this culture. But the birthright fifty percent is already also there. Prayāga, severest cold, eh, I took bath in the Ganges. It is simply cutting. But still, they are taking bath and smearing over the body the ashes and sit down, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. No care "Wherefrom food will come? Where...?" No. That's in India still. (break) ...it is also like this, cloudy?

Bhagavān: Just a few months out of the year, January, February.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise how we have gone there? (laughter) Africa was part of India.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means God consciousness. The cats and dogs cannot be trained up. But a human being can be trained up. Especially the Āryans, they can be trained up. They are advanced.

Young man: More advanced than other races?

Prabhupāda: By birth they are advanced. They have got intelligence. But for Kṛṣṇa consciousness everyone can be purified, even the non-Āryans. It is without any check. Ahaituky apratihatā. Apratihatā means without any material check. It is not a disqualification that one is not an Āryan, therefore he cannot understand God. No. He can also be trained up. Because it is spiritual, and we are all spiritual identities, so it is not difficult. Even one who is not spiritual at the present moment, but by training he can also become spiritual.

Young man: In other words, one has to make an intellectual effort or at least in order to...

Prabhupāda: It is not very highly intellectual. One has to understand first of all that he is not this body. That anyone can understand, that "I am changing my body, but I am there. Therefore I am not this body." Just like a child's coat, when he is young man, that coat does not fit him. So that young man means he has got another body. But the young man knows, he remembers, that he was a child. He was on the lap of his parents or his relatives. So that body is no longer existing. I have got a different body, but I who had the childhood body, I am existing. Is it very difficult to understand, any one of you? The body has changed. That's a fact. But I am the same. (break) What is that?

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Nitāi:

sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya

mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ

tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir

ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā

(BG 14.4)

"It should be understood that all species of life, O son of Kuntī, are made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seed-giving father."

Prabhupāda: So He is the father of all species of life, origin. Actually every one of us, we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is not for a particular person. For everyone. Yes?

Ānanda-mārga woman: When you asked what is the true form of God, I've seen the true form of God in myself. It's the purest life, it's the life I cannot reach through my mind. And nobody has experienced in material world. I have listened to it. It is a beautiful sound, the celestial music. And you cannot reach it through material world. I've tasted it as the purest water, and it's always inside me. And you can get it in the spring water even. And it is something I cannot reach through my mind because it is beyond my mind. I can reach by surrendering myself, by being a devotee. And I have experienced the true form of God.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you are sons. Although you are insignificant, you are God's sons. So He likes to talk with His sons. Just like a small child. Everyone knows that he cannot talk. Still, father tries to make him talking, to enjoy. Māyāpur-candrodaya Temple is teaching all these fools and rascals how to talk with God. That is our mission. (break)

Devotee: ...citizens in the state are punished by the government by being put into the prison house and that similarly, in this human form of life, if we are irresponsible, then we are punished by God by birth and death. So what about the man who is responsible for his family and executes his duty ni...

Prabhupāda: Well, that is... Cats and dogs have also responsible for the family. What is credit for him?

Devotee: Well, what actually is responsibility?

Prabhupāda: No, no. The dog also allows the nipple to be sucked by the cubs. That is family maintenance. So what credit do you get by family maintenance? Why do you specially claim any benefit by maintain...? That is being done by the cats and dogs. Do you think that the animals do not take care of their children? Then if you take, then what is the difference between him and yourself? You are also the cats and dogs. Your main business is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. If you forget that—you remain cats and dogs—then you'll become again cats and dogs. Punar muṣiko bhava: "Again become a mouse." The mouse was given the chance to elevate gradually to a tiger, and when he became tiger, he wanted to devour the saintly person. And he said, "All right, again you become mouse." That is also... You are given the chance of self-realization. If you do not do it, then again become cats and dogs, maintain your family.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, harmonious coordination. But the śūdras were hated like anything, and they became Mohammedans. And there was no reacceptance. Formerly, from Caitanya literature we understand, that if the Musselman will take little water from the badna (?) and sprinkle like this, then you become Mohammedan. In this way all these Indians, they became Mohammedan. And the result is now the Pakistan, and you go on fighting forever. Why these innocent persons who were by sprinkling water became Mohammedan, why they do not claim? Kṛṣṇa and the śāstra, it does not say that if one has fallen, you cannot reclaim him. No, why not reclaim him? Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa... (BG 9.32). This is by birth. And of course, in our country everything was taken by birth. Now it is going on. But even by birth one is low-grade...

Governor: No, birth also was built up by a tradition. They were brought up in that atmosphere.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It doesn't matter. But if he wants to be elevated, he should be given chance. That is the verdict of all śāstras. Now we are feeling, India, this difficulty. Because they are Europeans, Americans, the so-called big societies, they are not agreeable to accept them. You see? Although śāstra does not say so. Śāstra says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. "If one takes shelter of Me, even he is born in pāpa-yoni"... Striyaḥ vaiśyās tathā..., te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim, "they can also be elevated to the highest exalted position." And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is, many places it is said that a low-born person can be elevated. Caṇḍalo 'pi dvija śreṣṭho hari-bhakti-parāyaṇaḥ.

Room Conversation with Alcohol and Drug Hospital People -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa:

sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya

mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ

tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir

ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā

(BG 14.4)

"It should be understood that all species of life, O son of Kuntī, are made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seed-giving father."

Prabhupāda: So material nature is the mother, and God is the father.

Guest (2): But to whom did God give the seed?

Prabhupāda: The prakṛti, material nature. That is said here. Just like for begetting a child, both the father and mother requires. So the material nature is the mother, and God is the father. So so many forms of life are coming from the womb of material nature. This body is made of matter. This body is earth, water, air, fire, like that. This is made of... But I am the soul. That is from God. I am part and parcel of God, as soul. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ. Find out.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: This is first-class man.

Dr. Copeland: I'm not a first-class man.

Prabhupāda: No, that I do not know, but if you have got these qualities... We have to judge by the qualities, not by birth. But since India accepted a brāhmaṇa by birth without these qualities, India's civilization fell down.

Dr. Copeland: Ah, that's why. Ah! Pretty! Are you a brāhmaṇa? By birth you're a brāhmaṇa, right?

Prabhupāda: No. I am brāhmaṇa yes. Yes. But we are not... We do not recognize brāhmaṇa by birth. Brāhmaṇa by these qualities. Anyone who has got... This is the shastric injunction, that if the qualities are found somewhere else—that means one who is not born in a brāhmaṇa family but he has the qualities of the brāhmaṇa—then he should be accepted as a brāhmaṇa. That is shastric injunction. Yasya hi yal lakṣaṇaṁ proktaṁ varṇābhivyañjakam, yad anyatrāpi. Anyatra means elsewhere. Tat tenaiva vinirdiśet (SB 7.11.35). "He should be accepted as such." Similarly, if a man, born in brāhmaṇa family but he has the qualities of the śūdras... Paricaryātmakaṁ kāryaṁ śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Paricarya means service. To accept... (break) So therefore, according to Bhagavad-gītā, nobody is brāhmaṇa. A brāhmaṇa should remain independent. He should live by his qualities. People will honor him. Just like we are training. We do not serve anyone, but we are maintaining big establishment.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: No, recognize means if a man is qualified medical man we accept him as medical man. And if a man is qualified engineer, we accept him as engineer. Similarly, Bhagavad-gītā suggests—not suggest, it is there—there are four classes of men, the most intelligent class of men, the administrator class of men, the productive class of men and ordinary worker. That is already there. Bhagavad-gītā says how they should be classified, that "He belongs to this class, he belongs to that class." That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, not that by birth, hereditarily, one becomes a caste. You don't try to misunderstand. The classification is already there: one class of men, very intelligent. Is he not there in the human society? Do you think all men are equally intelligent? Do you think? There must be one class, very highly intelligent class. So what are the symptoms of the intelligent class? That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. The first-class intelligent man... (break) ...you find all these qualities, he is first-class man. So we are trying to introduce that, that without first-class man, the society is useless. So there are first-class men. You train up. Just like a boy is intelligent; still, he requires training in the school, college.

Morning Walk -- October 25, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Simply bogus propaganda. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...that their educational system has failed. Therefore they...

Prabhupāda: Yes. They should close the universities and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So by birth they want to make better men. They can't make them by culture.

Prabhupāda: No, culture... They adopt real culture. What do they know about culture? They're killing their own children in the womb, and they're cultured? Worse than the animals. The animals do not do that. These rascals, they are cultured? So wretched and fallen, and they are claiming to be cultured.

Harikeśa: So you can't culture a superior man unless you are one yourself.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Harikeśa: It's not possible to culture a superior man unless you are one yourself.

Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all be yourself a cultured man, a gentleman. You are worse than animals. What animals cannot do, you are doing. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...man is defined by Cāṇakya Paṇḍit.

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Brahmānanda: There was a man yesterday at Dabji's house who was the brāhmaṇa who was officiating. He is a very much caste conscious brāhmaṇa, and although he and Shah were the first ones to meet you at the Nairobi airport when you arrived, in Nairobi, as soon as he heard your philosophy, he has never come. He came the first day only when you first arrived, and since that day he has never come. And yesterday I think he must have just come because Shah forced him. But he does not at all like our philosophy that brāhmaṇa by qualification. He is very staunch—"brāhmaṇa by birth."

Devotee (5): They always say the Africans could never become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: How they are becoming?

Devotee (5): They don't believe.

Prabhupāda: Believe? You do not see even?

Devotee (5): But they say that "Oh, he will do it, and then, after one year, he will stop."

Prabhupāda: Well, that is another criticism. Somebody is eating nice yogurt. Everyone will say, "Oh, it is very nice. It is very nice, very nice." Another man says, "Yes, it is nice, but after three days it will be sour." (laughter) You rascal, you consider for the present. What "after three days"? Means he's a bad critic, so he could not find out any fault. Everyone says it is good. So "After three days it will be bad." This sort of criticism. So you have already become bad. You were doing service to others. What does he do, that priest?

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Brāhmaṇa's qualification is there—śama, dama, titikṣa, ārjavam and jñānam, vijñānam, āstikyam, brahma-karma... (BG 18.42). Everything is there, the symptoms. So you are doing business, the occupation of the vaiśyas or śūdras, and how you are claiming to become brāhmaṇa? The... Who is a brāhmaṇa, that symptoms is there in the śāstra. And not only the symptoms, Nārada Muni has said, "If these symptoms are found elsewhere, then he should be accepted according to the symptom." There is no question of birth. Yasya hi yaḻ lakṣanām proktaṁ varṇābhivyanjakaṁ yady anyātrāpi dṛṣyeta tat tenaiva viniriset. This is Nārada's vision. So it is the symptom. Just like a doctor, medical man. He diagnoses according to the symptom. He finds out the cause. So symptom is required, not that a man has become diseased or healthy by birth. No. By birth he is born. Then again, when he develops certain types of symptom, so one has to take him in that way. That is śāstra. We are accepting, or giving them sacred thread, brāhmaṇa, after seeing that they are actually acting as a brāhmaṇa, not superficially. Therefore we take some time to see whether he can develop brahminical symptom. That is our process, not that anyone comes, and we give him a sacred thread and he becomes immediately brāhmaṇa. We don't do this.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...tato bhāvaḥ sādhakānām ayam premnaḥ prādurbhāve bhavet kramaḥ. (break) Vaiṣṇava doesn't make any discrimination that "He is Hindu," "He is Muslim," "He is this and that." He takes everyone as servant of Kṛṣṇa. (break) In India the caste brāhmaṇas criticize me that "Swami Bhaktivedanta is putting Hindu dharma ruin." Yes.

Dr. Patel: Bhagavad-gītā never.... I think cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Not by birth vibhāgaśaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Never.

Dr. Patel: It is by guṇa and karma.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Not by position of birth.

Prabhupāda: No, it is clearly explained by Nārada Muni, that one has to be judged by the qualification. If the qualification.... Yady anyatrāpi diśetaḥ. If the qualification is somewhere else, then he must be designated by that qualification. Just like.... doctor's.... (Hindi) (break) ...qualification of medical man and you are practicing, that's all. Who is concerned with your caste?

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: No, no. What is the difference? If by practicing severe yogic means you fly, the birds are also flying. They are flying without airplane. Does it mean that it has become very great? There are many birds, garuḍa bird. They can fly from one planet to another. Just like small birds—they fly from one tree to another, take rest again—so they fly from this planet to another. Take rest, again another. What is the value of your airplane? You cannot go to another planet. There are birds; they catch up elephants and take it away for eating. Does it mean he has become, it has become God? There are Siddhaloka planets where the people can go without any airplane from one planet to another, Siddhaloka. They have got all yogic siddhi automatically, by birth. Just like we cannot fly, but a small bird, a small fly, from the birth it can fly. There are so many. So similarly, by birth they have got all yogic siddhis. This is called Siddhaloka. There are different varieties of planets, different varieties of perfection. Just like here also, I cannot dive into the water. A small fish can dive.

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Hari-śauri:

sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya

mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ

tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir

ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā

(BG 14.4)

"It should be understood that all species of life, O son of Kuntī, are made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seed giving father."

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Hari-śauri: "In this verse it is clearly explained that the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, is the original father of all living entities. The living entities are combinations of the material nature and the spiritual nature. Such living entities are seen not only on this planet, but in every planet, even in the highest, where Brahmā is situated. Everywhere there are living entities; within the earth there are living entities, even within the water and within fire. All these appearances are due to the mother..."

Prabhupāda: And these rascals say in other planets there is no life. And we have to believe that. This is going on. Why other planet there is no life? Only this planet? These rascal things are going on.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: What is their argument?

Jayādvaita: Hardly.... Well, they have some idea, they argue that there's no social mobility, because they all have some bodily idea that caste by birth.

Prabhupāda: No, that is not the fact.

Jayādvaita: No.

Prabhupāda: The qualification.

Jayādvaita: When we present the real idea, then they're just sitting there, they have no argument. And then we challenge their system, that "What is the purpose of your society? What is the goal of it?" and they can't say anything.

Prabhupāda: Unless there is division of activity, nothing can be done perfectly well. The natural division is there in the body—the head, the arms, the belly and the legs. Similarly, in the social body also there must be the heads, the intelligent class of men, brāhmaṇa. Then everything will go on smoothly. And, at the present moment, there is no intelligent class of men. All laborer, worker class of men, fourth class. No first class, second class. Therefore society is in chaotic condition. There is no brain.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Well, that is another.... That is exceptional. Generally, anyone is born, according to Vedic civilization, everyone is born fourth class. When he takes his birth, it is to be accepted he's a fourth class. Now by training, you can make him first class, second class, third class. By birth, everyone is fourth class.

Kern: I saw a film of a leader of ours, Jean Vanye(?) from Canada and France. He took five thousand retarded.... In Spanish, we say (indistinct), to Rome just for the experience. And they were all in wheelchairs, old and young and small ones—not understanding very much, but a wonderful experience for them, the weak and the wounded.

Jayādvaita: (explaining to Prabhupāda) One priest took many handicapped people, who...

Prabhupāda: No, why you are speaking of handicapped? Who has taken the handicapped? Handicapped is handicapped.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Our program for them is also like this, to give them spiritual...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Apart from that, we shall deal with the handicapped later on.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Jayādvaita: "It should be understood that all species of life, O son of Kuntī, are made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seed-giving father."

Prabhupāda: That's it. And that is the root cause of all problems, that they are missing the father. He is the maintainer. Godless. Is it possible that the mother gives birth to a child without father? Is there any experience in the history of the world, the mother has given birth to a child without connection with the father? They say, "We have not seen father." That does not mean there is no father. A child may not have seen his father. There are many children, but that does not mean that he has no father. There must be father. And so if there is father, no father, how you know it? Suppose you have not seen. You ask the mother, "Mother, am I born without father?" Mother says, "No, you have got your father." Or she can show, "Here is your father." So you cannot understand the father by your research work. You have to take the knowledge from the mother, authority. There is no other way. You cannot make any experiment or research knowledge who is father. That is not possible. You'll never understand who is father. You have to take the authority of the Vedas to understand what is God, or what is the supreme father.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But it cannot be done. This is another foolishness. Because Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). But the difficulty is the caste system is coming on account of false notion that a brāhmaṇa is the son of a brāhmaṇa. That is caste system. But Kṛṣṇa does not say. He says, "By quality and work." He never says, "By birth." So this so-called castism in India that is a false notion of cātur-varṇyaṁ. Real cātur-varṇyaṁ means guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. One must be qualified. And how one is qualified? That is also described. Satya śamo damo titikṣva ārjava jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam. So there must be education. It is not that to abolish the caste system which is contaminated by false conception, or birth right conception. This wrong caste system should be abolished and training centers should be opened how to train a person to become brāhmaṇa or to become kṣatriya. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. So you cannot avoid it, but because you have misconceived the caste system, that should be abolished, and the system recommended by Kṛṣṇa, that should be taken. Otherwise you cannot avoid it. Caste system will remain. Just like truthfulness. So all over the world you'll find somebody who is truthful. Why do you take it: "His father was truthful, therefore he is truthful."? This is nonsense.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Saṁskāra... The real aim is to bring the rascal to the platform of knowledge. That is called saṁskāra. Janmana jāyate śūdra. By birth everyone is the same, śūdras, means without any knowledge. But the saṁskāra means śūdra, rascal, without any knowledge of spiritual life, to gradually bring him to the spiritual platform. That is called saṁskāra. And saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. That is essential. The human life is the opportunity for understanding what he is and what is the aim of his life. The aim of life is back to home, back to Godhead. We are part and parcel of God. Somehow or other we are in this material existence. So aim is again come to our spiritual life, spiritual existence, where there is no struggle for existence, blissful, happy life. Because actually we want happiness, blissful life. That is not possible in the material world. That is in the spiritual world. That is the aim. So every human being should be given chance. That is real education. That is called saṁskāra. So these saṁskāra, there are dāsa-vidha-saṁskāraḥ... So in this age it is very difficult, but if one chants Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra without any offense, being trained up by the spiritual master, all the saṁskāras automatically become done and he comes to his original spiritual position, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am spirit soul. The Kṛṣṇa is Param Brahman, and I am Brahman."

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually it is the way. That, I have already described it. It is not a sectarianism like Muslimism, Christianism or "Thisism..." Hinduism also now one of them. Actually, it is a way of life, varṇāśrama-dharma, how to become elevated to the spiritual platform. So that begins by the varṇāśrama-dharma, to select persons according to his capacity to different varṇas. Some of them selected, trained as brāhmaṇas. Some of them trained as kṣatriya, some of them as vaiśya, some of them as, remain... Those who cannot take any training, they are śūdras. So in the ways (indistinct) there must be social division not by birth, but by education. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). That we have lost. The so-called Hinduism they have lost. And because they did not follow real varṇāśrama-dharma, therefore India, so many renegades, Muslim became... Once they become Muslim, there was no reformation. But according to Vedic principle, even one is fallen, he can be raised to the highest standard. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32).

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the way of life, that by reformatory process recommended in the śāstras one should be elevated to the position of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśyas, and śūdra. Śudra means one who cannot take any reformation. But one who can take up the reformation, he can be situated as a brāhmaṇa, as a kṣatriya, as a vaiśya. This is not by birth, but by education, by training. That is recommended for the all human society. Not for the Hindus or... Otherwise, why Kṛṣṇa says pāpa-yoni? Pāpa-yoni. Striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās. They are also taken as pāpa-yoni. And what to speak of the śūdras and caṇḍālas? They must be pāpa-yoni. Only the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, they are taken as highly elevated. But nowadays, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In this age you cannot distinguish who is brāhmaṇa, who is kṣatriya, who is a vaiśya, who is a śūdra. It is accepted that everyone is a śūdra because there is no reformation. So according to Pāñcarātriki-vidhi everyone should be given the chance of becoming a Vaiṣṇava, a dvija. And that is recommendation in the Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, that by the proper initiation process everyone can be brought into the platform of dvija, twice-born, and then he becomes... After initiation, his second birth is there. Saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. Then he's allowed to read the scripture. Veda-pathād bhaved vipraḥ. He becomes vipra. Then when he really comes to the knowledge of Brahman, his relationship with Brahman, and acts accordingly, then he is brāhmaṇa. And when he is perfectly situated in the eternal relationship with God, Viṣṇu, then he becomes a Vaiṣṇava. That is perfection of life.

Interview with Mike Darby -- June 30, 1976, Wheeling, W. Virginia:

Hari-śauri:

sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya

mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ

tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir

ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā

(BG 14.4)

"It should be understood that all the species of life, O son of Kuntī, are made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seed-giving father."

Prabhupāda: So how can I deny God? How can you deny your father? If you say "I've not seen my father," that does not mean you have no father. Ask your mother, she will reply, "Yes, you have your father." So the argument is forwarded that "We cannot see God; therefore there is no God." This rascal argument is being forwarded. Because you are speaking, you are existing, there must be father. That is conclusion. Without father, there would have been no possibility of your existence. You are speaking, talking so loudly, "There is no God." This is going on. "Because I do not see God, therefore there is no God."

Darby: So many people call themselves Christians, they still try to deny God.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: And when they were attacked, they were running away. Because they are śūdras. How they can fight? They are not trained up as kṣatriyas. Huh? Anyone who is unemployed, let him become a soldier, but he cannot fight. That is not possible. Neither this class of men can have good brain to give direction to the society. The democracy means anyone can go to the government, and because he's not kṣatriya, his only business is how to get money so long he's on the post. Just like you did not like your President, Mr. Nixon. So that is the risk. If you keep the society in chaotic condition, any department, intellectual, administration, production, they'll be all topsy turvey, and there cannot be any peace in the world. So this Vedic scheme, varṇāśrama, is a very important scheme. If possible it should be introduced and taken up very seriously. That is one of the items of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, to reestablish the institution of varṇa and āśrama. Not by birth, but by qualification.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Wrongly, wrongly. Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). So according to quality and work... That is fact. If you have got engineering qualification and if you can work as engineer, people will call you engineer-sāheb. Is it not? So there may be a class of engineer, but that depends on quality and work. But if you have no quality, no work, how you become engineer? If you have no qualification of becoming an engineer, and you do not work, you work as a clerk, and if somebody addresses you "Engineer-sāheb," he is a fool, you are a fool. (laughter) So if he's not a brāhmaṇa, if you call him a brāhmaṇa, then you are fool and he is also fool. So that is going on, fools' paradise. A rascal who is not in qualification a brāhmaṇa, if he's addressed and given honor of a brāhmaṇa, he's sees, "Oh, for nothing I am getting this honor, that's right, very nice." And who is giving him honor as brāhmaṇa, he's also rascal. But it is not that. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Not by birth. One must acquire the quality of a brāhmaṇa.

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: That's a fact. If one actually interested in real philosophy, they must come to spiritualism. Ātma-tattvam. That is ātma-tattvam. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long they do not come to this platform of understanding ātma-tattva, whatever rascal they are doing, simply defeat, that's all. Parābhava. Simply frustration and defeat. This very word, parābhava, means defeat. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. Why he's defeated? Abodha-jātaḥ. Because by birth he's a rascal. Abodha-jātaḥ. And this will continue yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long he's not enlightened to inquire about spirit and the science of spirit, he'll remain in that, that, what is called, defeat position or conquered position. So we have to now increase our scope. Everything we have got. And if you don't come to this platform, ātma-tattva, then your all attempt will be defeat. You are already defeated, frustrated, simply struggling, that's all. Either take the capitalist or communist, who has conquered? Everyone is defeated. One party may be proud that "We have been victorious." What victory you have got? What is the victory? Not that the communist countries, they are all happy. This is not the fact. Then where is your victory? Simply beating the drum that they have got victory, victory? "We have gone to moon planet. We have gone to Mars." Cheating innocent public. Is that victory? The girls are working that side? No.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Dravidian culture. Dravida. They are non-Āryans. Just like these Africans, they are not Āryans. Now they are mixing up with Europeans and Americans. In India, it was, one from the higher section, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, they will be fair complexion. Śūdras, black. So if a brāhmaṇa becomes black, then he's not accepted as brāhmaṇa. Kāla bahu (?). And if a śūdra becomes fair, then he's to be know that he's not pure śūdra. Although we do not take very, but, this brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, by birth, but still, we have seen, those who are coming purely from high caste family, their behavior and śūdras behavior is different. The family culture. And the spiritual culture lost, still, the family culture keeps them separate.

Hari-śauri: Still, we still met a lot of people in India who are actually following the regulative principles just as a matter of social training. But they're becoming very few now.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Harikeśa:

sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya

mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ

tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir

ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā

(BG 14.4)

"It should be understood that all species of life, O son of Kuntī, are made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seed-giving father."

Prabhupāda: That's all. You are trying to unify the so-called human beings, but you are keeping the poor animals for cutting their throat. This is your humanity. Because these poor animals cannot protest, so you are strong. And this is your humanity, you cut their throat and eat. But that is not humanity. Humanity is here mentioned: God is the seed-giving father all living entities. That is the fact. That is humanity. They do not know what is meaning by humanity. Here is the explanation, humanity. That is called brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). Unless you come to that stage, there is no question of humanity. Artificially, you manufacture something and you think humanity. According to your convenience. "Let us combine together and exploit other living entities for our benefit." That is not humanity.

Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: In this way, as there is necessity of engineer, as there is necessity of medical man, as there is necessity of so many other departmental chiefs, similarly, a department of brāhmaṇa, a department of kṣatriya—that education must be given. But in this age, because nobody is interested, so everyone is śūdra. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Paricaryātmakaṁ karma śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Everyone, all over the world, they are being educated to seek after some good service. Paricarya: he must have a good master; then his education will be... He cannot act independently. So therefore in the śāstra it is said that everyone is anxious to get a good job, therefore, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ, in this age almost everyone is śūdra. So if śūdras are there only, if there is no brāhmaṇa, no kṣatriya, no vaiśyas, that society will not prosper very much. If we accept the injunction of the śāstra, yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma (BG 16.23). So this brāhmaṇa, or kṣatriya, vaiśya, it is not by birth. It is by qualification. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Guṇa. One must acquire the quality of brāhmaṇa and he must act as a brāhmaṇa. Then he is brāhmaṇa. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. Even in śūdra family, if one is born śūdra, but he has attained the quality of a brāhmaṇa, he must be accepted as brāhmaṇa. That is the śāstra injunction.

Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: If one is born in a brāhmaṇa family or kṣatriya family, he has got the facility to become quickly a brāhmaṇa; but if he has no quality, if he does not practice, then he is not to be accepted as brāhmaṇa. You may be a son of a high-court judge, but unless you have got the quality of high-court judge, it is not that because you are born of high-court judge you become a high-court judge. That is not, that is not the quality. The quality is... So therefore I say that there must be educational institution for training brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya especially. And vaiśyas, they do not require any academical area. Kṛṣi-gorakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (Bg 18.44). They can learn simply by associating with another vaiśya. But brāhmaṇa, especially require education, Vedic literature. Paṭhana-pāṭhana-yajana-yājana-dāna-pratigrahaḥ. Kṣatriya also requires education. Others, they may not require education. Practical training. These things should be introduced. Then human society will be perfect. Not by birth, but by quality, by education, by training. But that is possible. So your answer...

Indian (1): No, the institution for training this Swamiji? Your proposition?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. I have got so many ideas.

Room Conversation About Gurukula -- November 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Vaiśya is meant for kṛṣi.

Indian man: If you don't teach vaiśyas for this gurukula then how do they do the accounts?

Prabhupāda: No, we are not taking vaiśyas by birth.

Jagadīśa: Accounts is just a skill. Anyone can learn to do account.

Indian man: No, vaiśya is special work.

Jagadīśa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, accounts are meant for kāyasthas, śūdras. (Indian man laughs) Vaiśyas are meant for producing grain and protecting cows. Yes. According... One Englishman used to say, "This clerical job means educated laborer, educated śūdra." (laughs) Śūdra... Actually the kāyasthas are counted amongst the śūdras. You know that?

Bhagatji: In Bengal kāyasthas is the...

Prabhupāda: No, no, Bengal. Mean in U.P.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Girirāja:

sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya

mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ

tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir

ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā

(BG 14.4)

"It should be understood that all species of life, O son of Kuntī, are made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seed-giving father."

Prabhupāda: This is all very easy to understand. Mother means from whom the child is coming, is it not? That is mother. Everyone knows. So you see this whole world, wherefrom everything is coming, you see, practically, gross knowledge. I see a plant is coming from the earth. A tree is coming from the earth. And according to evolutionary theory... Not theory, fact. The dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). When his plant life is finished, he takes another body, insect life. So the mother is the earth. That's a fact. I am eating the things which are... Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. I am a life. I am taking either grain or I am taking flesh, the material is supplied from the earth. The animal also, he is also eating the grass. That is coming from the earth. The earth is the mother. That is a fact. Now we should be intelligent, that simply mother cannot beget a child. There must be father. So who is that father? The answer is here. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4).

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Yes, we honor.

Rāmeśvara: But that means by birth, the mother and father also. That's what it refers to.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: So they say, "By your teaching they are spitting on their mothers and fathers."

Prabhupāda: No, not spitting. Who is spitting? Everyone... Just like you have got a father and mother. You are not spitting. Whenever father, mother, comes, he honors. That is your version, but his version is different. He loves his father and mother. He teaches him Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Hari-śauri: My mother testified to that, that when I was at home I was impossible to live with, and when they saw me afterwards, I was very nice.

Prabhupāda: Many. The Hayagrīva's father, mother.

Rāmeśvara: My parents think like that too.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His citizenship, yeah. By birth he's Indian, but by citizenship he's Canadian.

Prabhupāda: So by Indian birth, that is all right. Citizenship, I am also Canadian. I have got Canadian immigration. First of all I took Canada immigration. Then, from there, I took U.S. immigration. So make a subcommittee immediately. Make resolution. Ācchā. What about the Canadian, Australian, English men? They also require the same?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: There is no excepting an Englishman. So anyway, you make these four men, subcommittee, and you take whatever land is given, given up to Kṛṣṇa. Then pick up selected persons from each family and make a strong body. And then we organize Burma and Bangladesh. And he's going to Ceylon. Formerly India, Burma, Ceylon, they were one. And somebody's going to Pakistan. So there is chance of uniting all these different parts of India by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You have to organize. At least you organize here, Manipur center, Burma, and Bangladesh, and Assam. It will be successful.

1970 Correspondence

Letter to Acyutananda -- Bombay 14 November, 1970:

Sridhara Swami says birth is not so much important as quality. (You have very wrongly remembered something about Sridhara Swami's view.) In Srimad-Bhagavatam it is said that if one is Vaisnava, immediately he becomes qualified for executing Vedic rites. About this verse, Srila Jiva Goswami remarks that the brahmana awaits the sacred thread ceremony, but a Vaisnava is qualified to execute the Vedic rites without waiting for the sacred ceremony.

The real fact is that because of non-observance of the Garbhadhana samskara in this age, there are no real brahmanas by birth at all and even they cannot be called as dvijabandhus properly because there has been no such observance for long time. Kalau sudra sambhava. The claim of brahmanism by birthright is a false display of material situation only. It is our duty therefore to train all kinds of men up to the standard of qualified brahmanas, initiating them as such by qualification in accordance with the above authorities, so that they may go on progressively unhindered in their march back to home, back to Godhead. This system introduced by my Guru Maharaja is a chance for all the members of the society, scientifically based and applied, apart from the exploitative sentiment of birthright "caste" system, to become actually situated on the transcendental platform.

1973 Correspondence

Letter to Mahamsa -- Bhaktivedanta Manor 8 August, 1973:

I am in due receipt of your letter dated 2nd August, 1973 with enclosures and noted the contents carefully.

Sriman Pannalal Pittie and Sriman Seshu are quite right when they say that the clause number five in the deed must be omitted. Tamala Krishna is not right. He says that we can always prove in the courts that what ever we do is in accordance with the rules and regulations of our society. But that clause number five will remain a pin-prick in the whole arrangement. The Hyderabad caste brahmanas came to fight with me on the issue that brahmanas are made by Birth, but we do not follow this principal, therefore now if we accept this defective donation and later on this question is raised that we are getting the Deity Worship maintained by Europeans and Americans who are not born in brahmana families there will be great litigation on this issue and it may be judgement is against us, then what we will do? We have to invest lakhs of Rupees on this temple construction and if later on this is cancelled as you write distinctly "The deed of trust shall stand as cancelled and the property hereby conveyed in trust shall revert back to the author of the trust."