Śyāmasundara: He says that this world is composed of two parts: idea and will. That the ideas are sense experiences that we perceive in the world, and they are mere representatives of the will, but the will is the ultimate reality.
Prabhupāda: That idea is illusion.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. But he says that will is the ultimate reality. Something is...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, will is ultimate reality, we also admit. Because we desire, we will like this. We will that we shall be enjoyer of the material world. Idea was that "I shall become like Kṛṣṇa." This was the idea, and therefore I will. And Kṛṣṇa gave us chance, "All right, you come here and fulfill your desire." So they are implicated in so many karma, and becoming more and more involved. So according to karma he is getting different types of body, and there is no end. It is going on.
Śyāmasundara: Yes, he says that the will is eternal, and it is always incarnated in one body after another. But he describes it as a force...
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is a force.
Śyāmasundara: ...an impersonal force.
Prabhupāda: Impersonal or personal, that will be discussed later on. First of all there is force, and he is being forced. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). He had associated with one of the modes of material nature, and as such he is being forced to act according to the nature. Just like you met your friend, she is forced. Nobody likes that, a wretched life, but she is forced, because she has associated with a certain material modes of nature. Just like these hippies, they are forced. They are coming from respectable family, there is no scarcity of money, and still they are lying on the street in wretched dress, wretched habits. So that this nature is forcing, "You do this." Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni. Because he has associated with a certain type of quality of the nature, he will be forced. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgasya sad-asad-yoni janmasu. The different types of species of life, the cause is kāraṇam, cause, is guṇa-saṅgasya. As he is associating with the material qualities.
Śyāmasundara: But is this force irrational and blind? This is what he thinks.
Prabhupāda: No, this is not irrational. That will. You desire, you will like that, and as soon as you will, immediately material nature is helpful: "Yes, take this help," and you take the help and we are forced.
Śyāmasundara: Supposing I will for some sense object... (break) Shall we begin?
Prabhupāda: Mm.
Śyāmasundara: Yesterday we were discussing that Schopenhauer's idea that the world is basically an evil place. So he says that there are three means of salvation from this basically evil world. The first means he calls aesthetic salvation, or contemplation of higher ideas which transport us above passion, just like poetry, music, art. By contemplating these higher ideas, you become absent of desire. Desire drops away, and you become transported to a higher plane of not willing, above our will.
Prabhupāda: That is mentioned in Bhagavad-gītā. It is not a new thing. It is called paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59), and actually it is happening. Just like my students, so their former life and this life. They have given up their former abominable life because they have got better life, better thoughts, better philosophy, better eating, everything better. So mind can accommodate something. If you always fill up the mind with Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so there is no chance of the mind being filled up with any other nonsense. That is our philosophy.