Indian man (3): What is your idea about the secularism preached by our government of India and the policy of secularism? What do they mean by that? That means they say that there is no place for religion.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Dharmena hina paśubhiḥ samana. As soon as there is no religion, the population-animal, that's all. That is going on. Because there was no religion, therefore the government has to declare emergency. (laughter) Because all animals. So they created first animals, then emergency. This is going on. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Why emergency? If there is human being, then why emergency? All animals. To control the animals you require some special measure. This is the proof that they're animals. Otherwise why? Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is long, long ago said, dharmena hina paśubhiḥ samana: "When you give up religion, you are no better than animals."
Indian man (3): What is the harm if I become an animal also?
Prabhupāda: You are already animal. There is no question of becoming animal. You are already animal. (laughter)
Indian man (3): So what is the difference between animal and a man?
Prabhupāda: Because you do not know, therefore you are animal. Therefore you are animal. You do not know what is the difference between man and animal; therefore you are animal.
Indian man (3): Very good. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: You are good animal. (laughter)
Indian man (3): This is right answer. When you cannot differentiate between man and animal, then that means you are animal.
Prabhupāda: And you admit it—then good animal. (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...who has got this bodily conception of life, he is animal. That is the definition of animal.
Indian man (3): Anyone?
Prabhupāda: Who is thinking, "I am this body," he is animal.
- yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke
- sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ
- yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicit
- janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva gokharaḥ
- (SB 10.84.13)
Indian man (3): Means?
Prabhupāda: Means anyone who is thinking, "I am this body."
Indian man (3): "I am the"?
Prabhupāda: This body. And in body relationship, "She is my wife, she is my child, she is my countrymen, she is my race." So this is dehātmā-buddhiḥ. Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ... "This is my country." In this way one is thinking, and little more religiosity, he is going to holy place and taking bath in the river but not to the person who knows things. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). There are. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Go means cow, and kharaḥ means ass. This class of men are grouped among the cows and asses.
Dr. Patel: Asses.
Indian man (3): That means they have got no... Sthira buddhiḥ neha(?) (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) This is animal civilization. There is no spiritual knowledge. Simply like cats and dogs, they are working hard, eating, sleeping...
Indian man (3): Then what should be the spirit of a man? How do you call him a man?
Prabhupāda: When he knows that he is not this body—he is soul, ahaṁ brahmāsmi—then he begins to become. Then his real identity...
Indian man (3): That means ninety-nine, ninety percent of the people living in the world are practically animals.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Asses.
Indian man (3): Asses.
Prabhupāda: Very good analysis. Why asses? And you load the ass with as much cloth, washerman, and he cannot move. But he will go on, and the washerman will give, after that, little grass, and he will stand there up to the evening again to be loaded. The ass does not know that "This much grass I can get anywhere. Why I have become servant of this washerman?" Therefore he is ass. He will eat two capātīs, but he is working like an ass whole day.
Indian man (3): Yes. And he cannot eat more than two capātīs.
Prabhupāda: That's all. So if the ass, he will eat a little grass, which can be had anywhere, but he is working for the washerman. Therefore he is ass.
Indian man (3): But (Hindi) in the ass... There is (Hindi) some egotism in the human being, but that is not there in the ass.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that egoism also ass has got. That egoism is there in ass also.
Indian man (3): But how do you know it?
Prabhupāda: Any animal, he knows that "I am ass." Dog knows, "I am dog." Similarly, if you know "I am Hindu," "I am Mussulman"— the same conception. What is the difference? If a dog thinks "I am dog," and if you think that you are Indian, then where is the difference? Simply by changing the name you become very big man? The conception is the same.
Indian man (3): That point is not clear.
Prabhupāda: It is clear. Just like two dogs. He is thinking, "I am dog of this quarter," and another dog is thinking, "I am this dog. Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" So what is that? Does that make any difference? Similarly, you are thinking, "Indian," he is thinking, "American." Fighting like dogs. Where is the difference between the dog and this conception?
Indian man (3): That point is right.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man (4): (Hindi)
Indian man (3): Make your mind understand is very problematic.
Prabhupāda: It is not problematic. It requires the association. Association, teacher, then it will be possible.
Indian man (3): Association is most necessary.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man (3): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Indian man (3): Namaste.
Prabhupāda: Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you.