Prabhupāda: Yes. Muhammadan. Chand Kazi was a... Maulana Chand Kazi. His name is Maulana Chand Kazi. He was a great scholar in the Koran scripture. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu first of all asked the Chand Kazi, "My dear uncle, what is your religion that you are eating your mother and father?" (laughs) So he could understand that He was attacking the cow killing process. So he said, "Well, You are just trying to criticize our cow killing, but in Your Vedic literature also I have seen that cow killing is allowed in sacrifice." Then Lord Caitanya said, "Yes. That is not killing. That is rejuvenating. That is not killing." The sacrifice of cow recommended in the Vedic śāstra means that the brāhmaṇas prove how powerful was Vedic mantra that it could give a new life to the old cows and bulls. So then Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, that "Such kind of learned brāhmaṇas and Vedic yajña is not possible in this age. Therefore cow killing..." Not cow killing. "Sacrifice by offering cow, sacrifice by offering horse, and..." Aśvamedhaṁ gavālambhaṁ (CC Adi 17.164). And sannyāsaṁ pala paitṛkam. Sannyāsa means to become in the renounced order of life. And these five things. One thing is sacrifice by offering cow. Second, sacrifice by offering horse. Third, to accept renounced order of life. And fourth, offering ablutions... Or what is called? Offering some, something to the forefathers? What is called?
Bull (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Karate.
Śyāmasundara: That's it, same, that art of defeating someone if he is off balance a certain way.
Devotee (3): Karate is the art of hitting your nerve points. You can paralyze people with it. Just with one finger hitting on a certain nerve junction, you can paralyze a person.
Devotee (1): They do. They show movies of one man who has killed his nerves in the hand and a bull will be running like this, and he can put his hand through the bull and grab the heart. They're like that. They show movies like that. They develop like that.
Devotee (2): So much wasted effort.
Prabhupāda: You have kept there some other razor?
Nanda-kumāra: I have put yours back. Yours was in a bag I could not find immediately, so I put another one there, and now I've changed it back again. (break)
Devotee (1):...at least half of the energy that you have to preach.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Devotee (1): We may develop at least maybe half of your energy to continuously preach someday?
Prabhupāda: Continuously?
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Well, they are also aquatics. They also live in water. But they are unfit for living in ocean water. So many varieties of life, different living entities meant for different purposes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: According to the desire of the...
Prabhupāda: According to the desire of the living entity. All facilities, whatever you want, you can have. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). Another logic is bakāṇḍa-nyāya. Bakāṇḍa. Baka and aṇḍa. Baka, the duck. And aṇḍa, the testicle, testicle of the bull. The bull is going and the testicle is hanging, and the duck is after it. He is thinking here is a fish. You find him always going...when it will drop. Bakāṇḍa. This is nature's study. (break) The baka, the duck, they are after fish. So the testicle is hanging, he's thinking it's a big fish, it will drop now. So it will never drop but he is going after it. Just see. Neither it is fish. Another logic is āja-gala-stana, āja-gala-stana. You have seen on the goats in the neck, just like nipples. If one is expecting milk from that nipple, he is also fool. It is not nipple but it looks like nipple. Āja-gala-stana-nyāya.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is like the mirage in the desert.
Prabhupāda: Yes, illusion, these are illusions. Āja-gala-stana-nyāya is applied for these rascals, those who are thinking that from matter life is coming. Exactly the same. They are thinking that here are nipples, there will milk come. Let us milk here.
Brahmānanda: But they are not getting, they are saying maybe in the future.
Prabhupāda: Yes, in future, yes. (laughter) In Sanskrit logic all these examples are there from nature's study.
Brahmānanda: Simple.
Kṛṣṇa-Kāntī: If they admit they are failures, they'll never get any more grants.
Prabhupāda: You see. All utopian. One platform... It is called ākāśa-puṣpa, ākāśa-puṣpa, to get flower from the sky. It is called ākāśa-puṣpa. This kind of plan is called ākāśa-puṣpa. Ākāśa-puṣpa. Or the bakāṇḍa-nyāya. Bakāṇḍa, the testicle of the bull and the duck, he is expecting, "Here is a fish. It will drop, and I will take it." He is following. Have you seen? In India we have seen many. The bull is going on, on the..., and the baka is going on. And whole day and night, he is after that. "It is a fish, big fish. It will drop and I shall take." Bakāṇḍa-nyāya.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is also a bird, Śrīla Prabhupāda; it is called heron.
Prabhupāda: Heron? I do not know.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah. They have long beaks. They also, they are always with the cows.
Prabhupāda: That is baka. We call baka.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are all the time... They stay mostly in wet lands.
Prabhupāda: Yes, bakāṇḍa-nyāya.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The scientists, when we say that "The attempts that you are doing are no good." Then they want to make sure that what I am saying is right.
Devotee: They would lose too much money if they closed the slaughterhouses. Many of the senators and congressmen have much money from the slaughterhouses and intoxication. They own big ranches of cows and bulls.
Prabhupāda: Just see. And they are leaders. The most sinful man is the leader. So how you can be happy?
Prajāpati: We would get support from the people who make imitation meat made of soybeans and vegetables that taste like meat. They would be in favor.
Girirāja: No, they will say that "It is not against our religion to eat meat."
Prabhupāda: It is not religion. It is a question of becoming sinless. Every religion will say that you become sinless. Every religion.
Girirāja: But in my religion eating meat is not a sin.
Prabhupāda: No, no. "My religion is, cut throat of another man is religion?" Would it be accepted?
Devotees: No.
Prabhupāda: If somebody says, "My religion is to cut throat of others, to pickpocket others. That is my religion." Would it be accepted? Why sometimes you are arrested. You say, "My religion is to chant." They will say, "No, you cannot do this. It is disturbance." So "Because it is my religion, it will be accepted," that is not a fact. You must come to philosophy and reasoning: "Why don't you cut throat your... Why don't you send your... You say complain, over-population. Why don't you send the over-population to the slaughterhouse? Why? Why?"
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: I lived in that house for seven years. And then I came to Rādhā-Dāmodara temple.
Devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Which way? (break) ...stayed in that Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa temple, Malliks. And still I am living in temple. So Kṛṣṇa has arranged nicely, from the beginning of my life, temple. Which way? This way? (break) Medhi, this is called medhi, this rod, center. So the, the bull is bound up with it and he goes round, goes around. All day. So gṛhamedhī means center is home, and he goes round. Throughout the whole life. They are called gṛhamedhīs.
Hṛdayānanda: This is called medhi.
Prabhupāda: Medhi, yes. Another medhi means killing. So one who keeps himself in household life, he kills himself. Killing, Gṛhamedhī. And that is little long term meaning. But this is the direct meaning. The medhi rod is there, and he simply... He's very busy. Busy means within few feet. But he's thinking he's very busy. Anyone got, he has got home, and he's simply rounding about. Anywhere you go. The center is that. And what is that gṛha? Where? Which way?
Bhavānanda: This way, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Na gṛhaṁ gṛham ity āhur gṛhiṇī gṛham ucyate. The gṛham, house, is not actually gṛha. Gṛha means the wife. Gṛhiṇī gṛham ucyate na gṛhaṁ gṛham ity āhuḥ. Gṛhiṇī gṛham ucyate. So to become householder means one must have a wife. So actually round the wife. Gṛhamedhī. Round the wife. And what is wife means, everyone knows. It means round that thing. Is that good analysis?
Madhudviṣa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) What these communists can do? We can do better than them. We can kill many communists like that. (laughter) Then it will be counteraction of communist movement. And you think like that. "Why you are sitting idly, no employment? Come on to the field! Take this plow! Take this bull. Go on working. Why you are sitting idly?" This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Nobody should be allowed to sit down and sleep. They must find out some employment, either work as brāhmaṇa or as a kṣatriya or as a vaiśya. Why there should be unemployment? The same example. Just like I am, this body is working. The leg is working, hand is working, brain is working, belly is working. Why there should be unemployment? You just stop this unemployment, you will see the whole world is peaceful. There is no complaint. And they'll very happily chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hm? Nobody's working in this field. They're all drawn to the cities to work in the factory. Condemned civilization. That communist emblem, what is that?
Devotees: Hammer and sickle.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is good.
Indian: Yeah, good.
Prabhupāda: But no hammer. Only this... What is called?
Devotees: Sickle.
Satsvarūpa: We should go on the walk. The cars are coming on the road.
Prabhupāda: So we shall walk? (break) ...containing three passengers, wasting petrol. Similarly, hundreds and thousands and millions of cars and buses are running all over the world, simply wasting petrol.
Bhagavān: When there was the oil crisis in the United States, they were giving reports how some person would go in his car, go ten miles in a big car to buy one pack of cigarettes.
Prabhupāda: Stick to your own place and grow your food. There is no question of transport. Little transport is required, that bullock cart. Kṛṣṇa was being carried on bullock cart. There is no use of petrol. Use simply the bull. They are already there. Utilize them. No. The bull should be sent to the slaughterhouse. Petrol should be used.
Atreya Ṛṣi: They try to solve every problem by transportation, by airplanes, cars. For example, we had this big conference in Montreal. From all over the world came... (end)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Farmers means... Nowadays especially in the western country, I see the farmer means they are raising cows for being killed. There is no cow protection.
C. Hennis: That may well be the case. That may well be the case. As it is not by any means...
Prabhupāda: I have seen. I have seen in England, I have seen in America, they simply raise the cows for being killed in future. You see? But the duty of the agriculturist, they should give very, very protection to the cows especially.
C. Hennis: This doesn't apply to bulls and bullocks and male animals generally does it?
Prabhupāda: No, bullocks also. Cow means bullock also.
C. Hennis: Oh, is it?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Cow is feminine, bullock is the masculine, that's all.
C. Hennis: So it's the whole bovine race that's protected, and not just the cows themselves, not just the female cows?
Prabhupāda: No, both the male and female. The bullocks are used for so many other purposes. They can till the field. They can be used for transportation, so many other purposes. Or even we are spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness. During Kṛṣṇa's time... Kṛṣṇa was born of a very well-to-do father, but at that time the bullocks were engaged for transportation from one village to another, one village to another. Or for carrying goods. Actually the United Nations should now think how the whole human society can live peacefully for a purpose of life, not whimsically, without any purpose of life. Now, anywhere... We are preaching. We are going everywhere. If I ask any gentleman, any philosopher, any scientist , if I ask him that "What is the purpose of life?" he cannot explain. That means there is lack of intelligent class of men. Nobody knows what is the purpose of life.
Prabhupāda: So such an important... And besides that, from moral point of view, you are drinking the milk of cow, and after that you are sending to the slaughterhouse. Do you like to send your mother to the slaughterhouse? And the bull is giving you, producing your food. Nowadays they have invented tractor or engaging sometimes horse. But in India still, the bulls are engaged for tilling the ground, the field, and produces. So from moral sense, the bull is producing your food and the cow is giving milk to you; therefore father and mother. Just like father produces food for the children and the mother gives the milk. So if the human society has not this simple brain of understanding, then where is brain?
C. Hennis: Of course, when you speak of the distinctions that are made between pious activities and sinful activities...
Prabhupāda: They have no such distinction. There is no such distinction.
C. Hennis: You have to establish first of all a...
Prabhupāda: No, it is already there. It is already there. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). Those who are interested in producing means of living, or foodstuff, in the society, say, the mercantile, the agriculturist, they should give protection to the cows. That is very essential, that milk is so important thing. If you get... Now, we have, in your western country, we have introduced such ideas in West Virginia. We have started one community project where we are keeping cows also. The cows are giving more milk than in other farm. They are so jubilant. Even up to eighty pounds milk, they are giving, because they know that "These people will not kill me." They know it. They are very happy. We don't kill their calves. In other farms, as soon as the calf is there, in front of the mother they are killed. You see? So if these things go on without any brain, without any intelligence, you may make hundreds of organization, the society will never be happy. This is our verdict.
Prabhupāda: What, his nonsense idea. From the result we see nobody is happy. What is this idea? They have big, big scientists, big, big politicians, big, big..., but where is it people are happy? They are simply fighting. Now, recently in Rome, Italy, the Communists and the Fascists fought, and six innocent person died. So where is the benefit of this United Nations? They do not have really brain. Manufacturing something, concocting something. That's all. Where is the brain? They have no discrimination between sinful activities and pious activities.
Yogeśvara: He admitted it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Any sane man will admit it. Cow is giving milk-mother. And bull is producing food—he is father. And they are being killed? Is that human society? How they can be happy? There is no possibility. Regularly they are maintaining slaughterhouse especially for the cows and bulls. Why don't you slaughter the dogs and hogs and eat if you are meat-eater? There are many meat-eaters who eat dogs. Dog is useless. You can eat. Hog is also useless. They are eating also dog and hog, everything, whatever they...
Yogeśvara: His point was that they can... He was thinking that man has the capacity for resolving his own problems. Simply we have to come together and organize.
Prabhupāda: That is United Organization. Why do they not think all these things?
Yogeśvara: There is no direction.
Prabhupāda: Ahiṁsā, because at that time people were killing animals in the name of yajña. Just like in the Christian world the order is not to kill, but still, they are killing. So this misuse of scriptural injunction is always going on. A class of men there are who abuse the scriptural injunctions and go on with their own motive. So there was a period when people, under the protection of Vedas... Because Vedas, animal sacrifice is recommended for certain purpose, to test the proper chanting of Vedic mantras. The animal was not killed. The animal was put into the fire. Then again it would come out with new life. That is the proper chanting of the Vedic mantras. So for that purpose, animal sacrifice... Just like in biological laboratories, they experiment on the body of animals, frogs, guinea pigs. Similarly, a similar experiment was made, how the Vedic mantra is being properly chanted. The test was that animal should be put into the fire, and if the Vedic mantras were properly being chanted, then that animal would come with a new body. So an old cow or bull was put and he would come with fresh body. That was the purpose. Now later on, they began to eat meat by so-called animal sacrifice. In that period Lord Buddha appeared. About him it is, description is there, sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. The Lord became compassionate on the animals, as they were being killed unnecessarily. So Buddha, Lord Buddha, his only mission was to stop the sinful activities of animal... Ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ. He was teaching that. But these rascals, they would show the evidence... Just like Christians says that "Lord Jesus Christ ate fish" or something like that. Because Lord Jesus Christ ate fish, therefore they should maintain slaughterhouse. This is their reasoning. The other day somebody questioned me that... I said that killing of animals is sinful activity. So somebody questioned that "Lord Jesus Christ ate fish," somewhere. So I said that He is powerful. He can eat the whole world. But you cannot imitate. You have to follow his instructions, what he says. He said, 'Thou shall not kill.' So you should follow his instruction, not the action."
Prabhupāda: What is this picture?
Paramahaṁsa: It's a Greek myth.
Prabhupāda: Whom he's killing?
Paramahaṁsa: It's a man with the head of a...
French Devotee: ...the head of a bull. The head of a bull.
Devotee: Head of donkey.
Prabhupāda: No, it is goat, goat.
Paramahaṁsa: These are called centaurs.
Devotee: It's a man with a bull's head.
Yogeśvara: Like Dakṣa.
Prabhupāda: Dakṣa?
Yogeśvara: Dakṣa has a head of a goat.
Prabhupāda: Dakṣa. Dakṣa. Yes. Mahārāja Dakṣa.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: In order to chant the holy name purely, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is it necessary to feel separation?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Prabhupāda: This is the cycle, that we should produce immense food grain both for the animals and for men. And there should be cooperation. Just like the cow and bull. The bull helps plowing. That is the original system. Now they have invented tractors, what is called? Tractor?
Madhudviṣa: Cultivators.
Prabhupāda: And the bulls are being killed. Why they should be killed? Engage them in tilling the field. They will have occupation. And the man also will have occupation. There is immense land. So there will be no question of unemployment. And the machine, it works hundreds of men's labor and hundreds of men become unemployed. So unemployed means devil's workshop.
Dr. Muncing: I think that the situation which would apply to the Asian area, whilst I don't know it in complete detail, it's my impression that we have used very nearly all of the Australian area that is suitable for tilling the soil and growing food grains. There are vast areas of Australia that have very little rain, or if they have rain it comes intermittently. And it's my impression that the Australian area... The area that's used for growing grains in Australia couldn't be vastly increased. It couldn't be doubled, for instance. On the other hand I accept that it might well be possible to double the amount that comes off the present area. And of course, that's something that C.S.R.O. is working towards.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: When you can give life. There is sometimes cow sacrifice yajña. The cow sacrifice yajña means an old cow, he is sacrificed in the fire, and by Vedic hymns he is given again new life. To test the potency of the Vedic mantra, an old cow is sacrificed and by mantra he is given again new life. Not for killing and eating. That was discussed between Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Chand Kazi, Mohammedan magistrate. Those who have read Caitanya-caritāmṛta will find. So the Kazi was challenged by Caitanya Mahāprabhu that "You are killing cow and bulls. What is your religion? You are killing your father and mother." Then, he also was learned man, he said it that "In your Vedas the cow sacrifice yajña is there." Then He explained, "This sacrifice is not for eating. It is giving a new life. To test the Vedic mantra." That is discussed in Caitanya-caritāmṛta. That is a different case. For meat-eating a cow should not be killed. This is not very good civilization. If you are..., you must eat meat, then you can kill other animals. They, those who are the kṣatriyas, they were sometimes going to the forest, killing the deer. They are allowed. Because they have to learn how to kill. So by killing animals, they used to practice. Just like doctors, medical practitioners, they first of all ply their knife on the dead body and find out where are the nerves, where are the..., not a living man. When they are fully practiced, then they are allowed to practice surgical operation. Similarly, kṣatriyas are meant for sometimes killing. Just like Arjuna, he's a kṣatriya. So Kṛṣṇa is criticizing him that "You are a kṣatriya. You have learned how to kill, and now you are hesitating?
Prabhupāda: That is prince. They are not cheap, loitering street. Every father of the prince made some bet. Just like Arjuna got Draupadī. How difficult it was! There was a fish on the ceiling, and you cannot see in this way. You have to see. There is a water pot, and you have to pierce the eyes of the fish. Then you will get this prince. So many failure. It is not so easy job, see the eyes from the shadow, and in this way you have to pierce. It is not so easy job.
Bahulāśva: You can go this way, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: The Satyabhāmā's father, he made a bet that "I have got these bulls, one dozen bull, very strong. And the boy who will be able to break the horns of these bulls, I will offer my daughter to him." So whole world will fail. You see, it is not so easy job. But Kṛṣṇa did it. That is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not that husband, that he would pick out some cheap girl and make her pregnant and go away. (laughter)
Citsukhānanda: I think this was the case with the Swedish book.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter) Kṛṣṇa married sixteen thousand wives, and each wife he gave big palaces made of marble, furniture ivory, and silk and gold, and then again He expanded Himself into sixteen thousand forms, not that one wife is crying for sixteen thousand days, no. Ready (indistinct). And that is Kṛṣṇa. That was also just to give them protection. When they were all kidnapped by Jarāsandha... No? Bhaumāsura. So when they were released, so asked them, "Go home." So in India, if a girl is kidnapped and she lives outside home for three days, nobody will marry her. That system is still now. So they said that "You are asking to go home but we will not be accepted." "Then what do you want?" "Now You marry us." "All right, come on." (laughter) Wholesale, sixteen thousand wives. This is Kṛṣṇa. We are not captivated by Kṛṣṇa, a Guruji Mahārāja. We know what is Kṛṣṇa. Then we accept He is God. He has proved Himself that He is God. Our Kṛṣṇa is not going to marry a society girl secretary. He is not so cheap.
Rāmeśvara: He fought the Muslims when they invaded Spain. He is a famous Spanish man who fought against the Muslims when they invaded. From Africa, they crossed over the sea and invaded Spain.
Brahmānanda: The Moors. (break)
Prabhupāda: This has got some meaning. What is this matchbox? There is earth, there is sands (sense?), there is comfort. So we shall go this way or...? (break) It is all vacant? (break) Big demonstration of cow fighting, bull fighting, and kill them. Such a Christian is trying to convert others as Christians! Just see the fun. Christ said, "Thou shall not kill," and they are sporting with the life of bull, and they are Christian. We have to believe.
Yadubara: Isn't that somewhat in the kṣatriya spirit?
Prabhupāda: Nonsense spirit. Rascal spirit.
Yadubara: But sometimes those people get killed when they're fighting the bull.
Prabhupāda: But your arrangement is to kill the bull. By chance or by God's desire you become killed.
Brahmānanda: It's a very popular sport.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And they are Christians.
Jayatīrtha: I think before the bullfighter goes to the ring, he first goes to the church and prays for blessings that he will be able to do very nicely.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Prabhupāda: It is not now utilized?
Nityānanda: Not... No. We are just growing hay. Grass for hay. We can sell the hay in the winter for a good price.
Prabhupāda: It is not possible to walk. (break) ...it is born?
Nityānanda: This one? Last week. His name is... Her name is Lakṣmī. There is more over here. (break) Bull calves. We are getting more bulls than females.
Prabhupāda: Why?
Nityānanda: I don't know.
Prabhupāda: Then how utilize the bulls?
Nityānanda: To plow?
Prabhupāda: Plow, transport. You have to engage more men for plowing. Two bulls will be required for each plow.
Nityānanda: We can go this way maybe? See the sugarcane?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jagadīśa: This is not taking this yet?
Prabhupāda: No. Why?
Prabhupāda: In the meantime it will be finished. By the time you finish your shed, it is finished. Śāstre śāstre dal phariyaga.(?) "Some women were dressing to go to a fair, and when they were dressed, the fair was finished." (laughter) Utilize them. Otherwise, while they are in working order, sell them. Don't keep in that way, neglected way. Either utilize it or sell it at any cost. Otherwise they are useless.
Devotee (4): Srila Prabhupāda? A materialist or someone who wouldn't know, he may say that when the bull is not plowing, all he is doing is eating. You have to pay money to feed him grain or to grow grain to feed the bull.
Prabhupāda: They will grow, and they will eat. Rather, they will help you for your eating. The father also eats, but he maintains the family. Therefore the bull is considered as father and the cow as mother. Mother gives milk, and the bull grows food grains for man. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu first challenged that Kazi that "What is your religion, that you eat your father and mother?" Both the bulls and the cows are important because the bull will produce food grain and the cow will give supply milk. They should be utilized properly. That is human intelligence. This is filling up with paddy or...? No?
Nityānanda: With food for the cows. This one has forage or fodder, and that one has grain.
Prabhupāda: So everything is for the animals. Nothing for the man?
Nityānanda: The cows give us milk.
Prabhupāda: That's all? And you are not growing any food grains? Why?
Prabhupāda: And everything for the cows, but what for the man? They will give everything for cows because they will eat cows, other farmers. But you utilize the animals for growing your food.
Brahmānanda: The idea is we should maintain the animals, but then the animals should provide foodstuffs for the men.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: And that way there is cooperation.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The animals, bulls, should have helped in spite of that... instead of that machine. Then it is properly utilized. And others, they cannot utilize these animals. Therefore, what they will do? Naturally they will send to slaughterhouse. But we are not going to send to the slaughterhouse. Then what we will do? They must be utilized. Otherwise simply for growing food that the cows and bulls we engage ourself? You are already feeling burden because there are so many bull calves. You were asking me, "What we shall do with so many bulls?"
Nityānanda: Well, when they grow up we will train them as oxen.
Prabhupāda: No, what the oxen will do?
Nityānanda: Plow the fields.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is wanted. Transport, plowing fields. That is wanted. And unless our men are trained up, Kṛṣṇa conscious, they will think, "What is the use of taking care of the plows (cows)? Better go to the city, earn money and eat them." Which one? Huh? That? We shall get on?
Brahmānanda: Yes. (end)
Prabhupāda: He'll get food. Food they can grow very easily, but they... Anartha. This is called anartha. Anartha means unnecessarily. Ādau śraddh tata sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriy tato 'nartha-nivṛtti syāt. So anartha-nivṛtti civilization, not anartha increasing. Civilization means anartha-nivṛtti syāt because we are complicated by the anarthas, unwanted things. (break) ...this way there is bulls, horses for transport. But what is the use of these big, big motorbuses and acquire petrol, machine, factory, so many things? But nature's way there is already means of transport. The horses are there. The bulls are there. But they will eat them, and they will create these motor big, big buses and then petrol, then fight. (baby birds making sounds.)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They also want to join the saṅkīrtana movement.
Prabhupāda: They are dependent on mother, by nature dependent. Similarly, you should be dependent on the original source of emanation. This is nature. Why they are with the mother?
Cyavana: Without the mother they cannot survive.
Prabhupāda: No, without, they can survive; still, they are dependent.
Cyavana: They have to be taught how to live by the mother.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They feel protected with the mother. Safe. People sometimes argue that God is for less intelligent, weak persons.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But with the tire tubes and nuts and bolts they can make a tractor. And the tractor can help produce food, they think, much faster.
Prabhupāda: No, that is waste of energy. Because you are eating the bulls, therefore you require a tractor. Otherwise you don't kill the bulls. This animal will do the business of tractor.
Devotee (4): It will work.
Prabhupāda: But you want to eat them, so you must find out...
Indian man (1): Some other means.
Prabhupāda: Replacement. That's it.
Devotee (4): But man has to progress.
Prabhupāda: What is that nonsense progress? To become busy fool? That is progress? Do you think it is progress to become busy fool? This is not progress. The progress means lazy intelligent, that he will not have to work but he will get all the comforts automatically. That is wanted. That is progress. Actually nobody wants to work but he is obliged to work because his necessities are not sufficiently met. Therefore he has to work. He has created such society that he has to work hard.
Indian man (1): Some of them wants to sit in the office and order the directors, "Do this, do this." They want to be on the head. They want to have peace there, but while they are sitting on the chair, they haven't got any peace.
Devotee (3): Then the key would be to recognize and appreciate the importance of the guru.
Prabhupāda: Parampara. Guru is also not authority by himself. He is authority by his guru, paramparā. If he is coming in the paramparā system, then he is guru. Otherwise he's not guru. Just like what we are doing? We are simply repeating the Kṛṣṇa's word. That's all. Therefore guru. And as soon as I make addition or alteration, I am goru
Harikeśa: Goru means?
Prabhupāda: Goru means cow, animal. Go-kharaḥ. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). The go-kharaḥ, these animals have been, I mean, exemplified because these two animals work for others very heavily. The bull also loads heavily, and the ass also loads very heavily for others, not for his own benefit. The bull is working day and night and being whipped... (end)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Hotel we are preparing also, transcendental hotel. But they must pay for it.
Dr. Patel: That's right. I think it is perfectly right.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise what will be the impression of the sādhus, that one treatment to one and one treatment to another? Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...require, everything is there by God's arrangement. (break) ...heavy load, there is elephant, truck. Elephant is truck, horse is carriage. Everything is there by nature's... And for small load, the bulls, the asses. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Where he is? He has gone back? In the kitchen they are preparing tea? They are preparing tea in the kitchen?
Brahmānanda: Tea. Was he making tea in his kitchen?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I didn't know that. (break)
Prabhupāda: So Nanda Kumara, you see me. I shall talk with you at half past eleven. (break) ...from this side. (break) ...flies. So do the modern botanists, er, biologists know all these things? In our śāstra it is, jalaja nava-lakṣani sthavara lakṣa-viṁśati, kṛmayo rudra-śaṅkhyakaḥ. (break)
Yaśomatīnandana: They cannot understand one species of life. How can they understand 8,400,000?
Prabhupāda: And śāstra has described so many things. It has no value. And whatever nonsense they'll talk, that is right.
Harikeśa: That's because the śāstra is not very practical.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And in that book we have mentioned that Darwin's theory is completely bogus. In Europe and America also we are getting good response, very.
Mahāṁsa: Also another party of five devotees, they have started on the bullock cart saṅkīrtana, going village to village. But it's very austere. They were... I told them, "You go for two months, come back after two months." But they returned in six days. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Why?
Mahāṁsa: Because first of all, they did not know how to ride the bulls, so the bulls gave a lot of trouble.
Prabhupāda: Then there is no professional driver?
Mahāṁsa: Well, now we are going to hire one driver to take care of the bulls. And secondly, even the axle of the cart was a little defective. Otherwise the program was a great success.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that is success. People were coming.
Mahāṁsa: Yes. And one person came to the temple in Hyderabad and met me. He said that "After your devotees had a program in our village, the farmers in the evening they were coming and doing kīrtana instead of just..." Previously they were not doing anything, but now they are coming after farming. In the evening they are collecting and they are doing kīrtana together.
Prabhupāda: Just see how quickly there will be response. Therefore I was insisting, "Go village to village, town to town." Caitanya Mahāprabhu's prediction, pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Indian man: (Hindi) (dogs barking) (break)
Dr. Patel: ...dog and the other. That is the bulldog and the Russian...
Prabhupāda: Who is defeated? He is Russian dog?
Brahmānanda: German.
Dr. Patel: They have crossed the dog with the, what you call, the bull.
Brahmānanda: German shepherd.
Dr. Patel: So Germany is defeated, no?
Prabhupāda: The bulldogs are English?
Dr. Patel: They are English. And Mr. Churchill is the representative of all the bulldogs. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...thinking, "I am English dog," (laughter) and he is thinking, "I am..." And the man is also thinking like that. What is the difference?
Dr. Patel: Both are animals.
Prabhupāda: Yasyātmā buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13).
Dr. Patel: That's right. We have got a dvija, dvija-karma kriya. Dvijā-karma-kriya? What do you call it?
Prabhupāda: Saṁskāra.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Lalitā Bose? (laughter)
Jayapatāka: This is Surabhi, Surabhi cow.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is she giving milk?
Jayapatāka: She is giving nice milk. She was from Hyderabad, the one. She gave... Baby one. This is Nandini. This is Kāmadhuk, the original cow. This is the first cow. Kaliya. The bull. We have to get a special room for him. He's too big now.
Prabhupāda: You can make a, what is called, circular with fence.
Sudāmā: Corral?
Prabhupāda: Then you can get...
Jayapatāka: He breaks it.
Prabhupāda: He breaks?
Jayapatāka: Because... He used to be baby. Now he's getting angry more. We'll make over there one fenced area, brick.
Prabhupāda: So make pakkā.
Jayapatāka: Yes. Otherwise sometimes he just picks up devotee and throws. Just last night he picked one devotee and threw him. Very dangerous now. He used to be quiet but now he's getting old and ornery.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He threw the devotee?
Prabhupāda: So they have no ground to graze?
Jayapatāka: They go out every day and graze.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, you want to see these?
Jayapatāka: These are the bullocks on the left and the babies on the right.
Prabhupāda: They can be used for plowing?
Jayapatāka: Yes, when they get big. Some are cows and some are men, bulls. These are the new ones. In the government, they kill all the male calves and only keep the female. But we will use for the fields.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayapatāka: This is for their little playpen.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Playpen?
Jayapatāka: They eat...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nicely made. Is this going to have a roof on it?
Jayapatāka: Yes, this roof we're just putting up.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I notice some of these cows are... Hariprasāda gave us.
Madhudviṣa: They don't give milk?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They've never given any milk. Very charitable. Give it to Govinda.
Prabhupāda: Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu went to the Kazi. His first question was that "What kind of religion you are following? You are killing your father and mother?" This was His beginning of the talk. "What kind of religion it is?" "How is that? I am killing my father, mother?" "Yes, cow is your mother and bull is your father. You are killing them. The bull is giving you grains by working in the field, and the mother is giving you milk, and you are killing them." This was his first question. So this is a civilization of killing father and mother. All over the world they are killing bulls and cows. In England there is law that you can maintain a cow but you cannot maintain a bull. It must be killed. Yes. When I was a guest in John Lennon's house the manager in charge, he was telling me. "You cannot keep bull. This is our law." I learned from him.
Hari-śauri: Only for breeding purposes. Only for breeding. All the rest are killed.
Prabhupāda: This is law in England? So you cannot keep even bull privately. Must be killed. This is the law.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the reason for that law?
Prabhupāda: Bull will not supply milk, so there is no use. It must be killed. Otherwise they are ferocious animal. You have made this law. The cows may be given some time to be killed, but the bulls should be killed immediately. This is their law.
Hari-śauri: Nor do the farmers actually want to keep them anyway.
Prabhupāda: No.
Hari-śauri: They are useless animals.
Prabhupāda: Bull will not supply milk, so there is no use. It must be killed. Otherwise they are ferocious animal. You have made this law. The cows may be given some time to be killed, but the bulls should be killed immediately. This is their law.
Hari-śauri: Nor do the farmers actually want to keep them anyway.
Prabhupāda: No.
Hari-śauri: They are useless animals.
Prabhupāda: Simply expensive. But here in India they know how to utilize bulls—for transportation, for plowing and so many other things.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Such a shortage of fuel, but there is no shortage of fuel with a bull.
Prabhupāda: No, rather, it will supply you gobar, fuel. Whatever he will eat, he will give you fuel.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In return.
Prabhupāda: In return.
Jayapatākā: But now the government is trying to teach the people that they should buy tractors and kill the calves.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Jayapatākā: They want to have..., make tractors popular and then...
Prabhupāda: Kill the bulls. They were criticizing us because in our gośālā we maintain the male calves.
Prabhupāda: No, when our Harikeśa was struck by a bull and he was taken in the hospital, the doctor was criticizing, "If you have killed the bulls, then this condition would not have come to you."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow. Karma.
Prabhupāda: No. There will be no accident because this..., the acci...You know that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I heard about the accident.
Prabhupāda: There was some accident, and he was taken to hospital. So he was advised, "Because you do not kill the bulls, therefore this is the accident." As if without killing..., by killing the bulls there is no accident. And they do not cite the accident by motorcar, greater bulls. Accident will be there.
Jayapatākā: Yesterday we planted paddy, paddy field.
Prabhupāda: Oh. That's nice. But this is going to be a lawn?
Jayapatākā: Yes. It will have flower bushes and tulasī around after the construction. The botanical director suggested that on the one end we make a little arbor type covering of vine that Your Divine Grace could sit there and give lecture from there.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayapatākā: And the devotees could sit on the lawn.
Prabhupāda: Yes, very nice. Mr. Agarwal said?
Jayapatākā: Not Mr. Agarwal. Mr. Mitra, the deputy director of the botanical gardens.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Prabhupāda: So why they're inventing machine? Machine means no work.
Hṛdayānanda: They think this is progress, everyone can lie down and the machines will work.
Prabhupāda: Yes, machine, inventing machine means one machine can work for fifty men. The banks are using this, what is that, computer?
Hṛdayānanda: Yes, everyone is using computers.
Prabhupāda: To save money. Machine means unemployment for many. Tractor, they're using, they're unemployment for bulls and plowmen and then they, bulls have to be killed. This is going on. Unemployment, then kill them. Vietnam, send all the men to fight and kill them. As soon as there is overpopulation, they declare war so that people may be killed.
Hṛdayānanda: Sometimes the soldiers became so disgusted that they would shoot their own officers.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hṛdayānanda: But they would do it in such a way so it appeared to be accidents. Sometimes they would take little bomb and throw it into the tent of the officers and they would all be killed.
Prabhupāda: What was the reason?
Hṛdayānanda: Well, because the officers, they were not qualified. They were simply foolish. They were directing them in such a way that they were all in danger.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Prabhupāda: Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). The struggle for existence—this word is used also among the philosophers. This is struggle. He is creating something by the mind, manaḥ, and the senses are engaged according to the dictation of the mind. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi. In this way, prakṛti-sthāni, within this material world, he's living a life of struggle for existence. Prakṛti-sthāni karṣati. Karṣati means with hardship he's pulling on. Just like an animal yoked with cart, bull, with hardship he's pulling on, but he cannot get out of it. And if he slacks, immediately there is whip, he has to go. Therefore this word is used, karṣati. He doesn't like this, but he has to do it. Struggle for existence, survival of the fittest. (someone enters) Hare Kṛṣṇa. The man may come.
Rāmeśvara: He's a good friend of ours, Śrīla Prabhupāda. He helps us in many legal affairs.
Prabhupāda: So if he wants to come forward. (break) Go on reading.
Hṛdayānanda: "When the mind is in the mode of goodness, his activities are good; when the mind is in the mode of passion, his activities are troublesome; and when the mind is in the mode of ignorance, he travels in the lower species of life. It is clear, however, in this verse, that the conditioned soul is covered by..."
Prabhupāda: Ignorance means completely lost of all independence. That is ignorance. Complete loss of, even little intelligence, all lost. In the modes of passion, there is little independence, and in the modes of goodness, he has got full independence whether to remain in the struggle for existence or go back to home, back to Godhead. Brahma jānāti iti brāhmaṇaḥ. That is real knowledge platform.
Prabhupāda: They simply eat meat, that's all. And some milk preparation.
Hari-śauri: They can't even do that now. Someone was saying that they restrict them now. One day a week they have to eat fish because there is not enough meat.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Hari-śauri: So they force them to eat fish now. (laughs) It's very bad.
Mādhavānanda: They are breeding.... In the airport we met one man; he is working on breeding a large bull, cattle. They breed cows for slaughter. So they are breeding now a very large cattle. They grow very, very.... it's called, instead of buffalo, they've named it beefalo.
Jayādvaita: They crossed buffalo.
Mādhavānanda: Crossbreed. And it is very huge bull. They raise it only for slaughtering, for getting a large quantity of meat. One bull, one buffalo, weighs hundreds and hundreds of pounds. And they sell it for half million dollars for one, so that they can breed it with others and make many. In the airports, when we are distributing books, we meet many farmers who have slaughter ranches. Whenever they say "farmer," usually it's for slaughtering. (break)
Kīrtanānanda: The children are doing very nicely.
Prabhupāda: Yes?
Kīrtanānanda: And they will be our future community.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Kīrtanānanda: Practically it is impossible to teach these older boys how to use bulls and how to... It is very difficult, they cannot do it. But I think if we train the children.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa Himself did it. He was king's son, Nanda Mahārāja. In the childhood, He was taking care of the calves, and when He was grown up, little, He was taking care of the cows. Kṛṣṇa personally showed it. His father could have avoided, "No, no, You don't go. The servants will go." No. "You also go." Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma, both. Balarāma has got the plow, tilling ground, and Kṛṣṇa has got the flute to enchant the cows. Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. They were not sitting idly, although Nanda Mahārāja could keep Them without any work. No. They worked. From the beginning of childhood. They would come in the evening and mother would take care of bathing Them, changing dress, and then giving nice food, and after taking food They would go to rest. Whole day They worked. Kṛṣṇa never taught that you sit idly. No. Personally, He did not do so, neither He taught anyone. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find.
Prabhupāda: Why?
Rādhāvallabha: Sorry, it's not a very good picture. Here is the ocean. So Lord Śiva is on the shore, he's not in the ocean. He is on the shore, drinking the poison. They want to know if that's okay.
Prabhupāda: Welcome.
Rādhāvallabha: Okay. So then they want to know if it's okay to have Lord Śiva's bull with Lord Śiva.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Where Lord Śiva can go, his bull can go.
Rādhāvallabha: So then they want to know, is it all right to show the demons and the demigods standing right on the ocean?
Prabhupāda: They were churning. That's all.
Rādhāvallabha: So then they can actually stand right on the water.
Prabhupāda: Churning was done in the water. Milk. Milk ocean.
Rādhāvallabha: But they are not standing on the bottom. They are standing actually on the surface.
Prabhupāda: Well, yes, half water.
Rādhāvallabha: Then a thousand-armed Viṣṇu on top of Mandara Hill? They want to know if they should show Him on top of the mountain like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Still, they should be protected, though. They should be used for plowing.
Prabhupāda: No, if they are not cows, there is no need of protection. When gives milk, that is cow.
Rūpānuga: These animals are created by man actually. History...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But it would have been a bull.
Prabhupāda: Bull also required, because cows alone cannot give milk unless united with bull.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The philosophy now with the farmers is that if there's a bull born, generally they kill it.
Prabhupāda: That is the law in England. You cannot keep a bull.
Hari-śauri: The only reason they keep a male animal is just for meat. Bullocks, one year old, and then they send them to the slaughterhouse.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere, in India, they require bulls and... Generally, they are not inclined to kill. So they are engaged in...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But otherwise, when Kṛṣṇa says go-rakṣya, He means the female, the cow, giving milk.
Rūpānuga: Actually, in these beef animals, if...
Prabhupāda: Go means species, means both bull and cow, but generally go means cow.
Hari-śauri: Of the two, the cow is the more important because it gives milk.
Prabhupāda: So you are drawing the last drop of milk from the cow and sending her to the slaughterhouse. Is that very good civilization?
Dr. Sharma: Swamiji, the beef industry here is based more on... The argument of mother would be a little weak.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Dr. Sharma: The beef industry here is more based on steers, which are not, which are basically bulls given high estrogens and bred in that way.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, we are layman, and we follow Kṛṣṇa's instruction that cow, milk is very important, we drink the cow's milk, therefore she is mother. So at least she should be saved from being killed. This is common sense. Apart from other big, big reasoning, we take it, Kṛṣṇa says go-rakṣya, so we take it. Besides that, so far vegetables are concerned, Kṛṣṇa says that patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati: (BG 9.26) "If anyone offers Me even patram," patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam,"I eat them." So we take Kṛṣṇa's prasādam. So Kṛṣṇa says "You give Me these vegetables, plants." So we offer Him, and then we take. Besides that, everybody has to eat something. So generally, food grains, vegetables, they are recommended for eating purpose. And those who want to eat meat or fish, they can do so, but at least they can avoid the important life of cow. That is recommended. So far we are concerned, we are eating Kṛṣṇa prasādam, foodstuff offered to Kṛṣṇa, and this, there is no such thing as meat or fish, or egg, but we are living. Not that because we do not eat meat or fish, we are dying. We can eat very easily. Anna. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Actually, if we take food grains like wheat, rice, pulses, vegetables, fruits, milk, that is quite sufficient, nutritious foodstuff, full with vitamins and, what is called, protein, carbohydrate. That is sufficient. Why should we kill? At least, cow? That is our request, because Kṛṣṇa says go-rakṣya. And in His practical life He played as a cowherd boy giving protection to other cows. There is a picture, Kṛṣṇa is sitting, and the cow and the calf is feeling very safety. Kṛṣṇa is embracing. So because we want to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, we want to follow His personal behavior and instruction.
Prabhupāda: They are hopeful of everything. That is their foolishness. Hope against hope, that's all. The hope will never be fulfilled, still... Therefore they are called pramatta. Pramatta means mad, crazy. Their hopefulness means that is a proof that crazy, mad.
Bali-mardana: Some of the rich men, they buy a cabinet that their body is put into, and they hope that they will wake up in a thousand years.
Prabhupāda: Yes, hope there must be, otherwise how they are foolish? This is called..., what is called? Bakāṇḍo nyāya. Baka, the duck, and aṇḍa, the testicle. So the bull, he has a testicle hanging, and the baka is thinking it is a fish. (laughter) So he's going, he's... (laughter). This is called bakāṇḍo nyāya.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I have seen it.
Prabhupāda: Everyone knows, this is a common thing in India. You'll see, the baka is going on. He's hoping, "This fish will drop and..." (laughter) Therefore they are baka. Bokā means rascal, bokā means rascal. In India we say any fool, bokā or baka.
Bali-mardana: Baka is a duck?
Prabhupāda: Means that the duck is a fool. Bakāṇḍo nyāya. Very appropriate, this bakāṇḍo nyāya. Logic of duck and testicle.
Rāmeśvara: You say they are ghostly haunted.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Rāmeśvara: Ghostly haunted.
Prabhupāda: Why they congesting the city in this, such light? (break) ...very nicely, people may seek out. Thank you. All right. (laughter)
Hari-śauri: He was going to give him a flower, and then just as Prabhupāda reached out he took it back.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break).... to capture him. (cow bells) He's very young?
Devotee (1): One year.
Prabhupāda: Bull
Devotee (1): Cow.
Bhagavān: This here, and the vegetable garden is up here.
Devotee (2): This is mung dahl, Śrīla Prabhupāda, mung dahl. And these are marigolds. We put them in the greenhouse because it gives a longer season. Then we'll have more flowers for the garlands for the Deities.
Bhagavān: These are all table grapes.
Devotee (1): They are melons, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You can see here, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Hari-śauri: There are melons also, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Devotee (2): Here are flowers. This is a heater for the winter to keep the temperature up. We try to grow tomatoes for the Deities in the winter.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)
Prabhupāda: That they do not know. Their advancement of knowledge is so poor, that if the chemicals of the semina and ovum, by mixture, life can be generated, so why you wait for such accident? You can combine such chemicals. Why you are waiting for the accident or chance meeting? You can produce. That they cannot. Then how it is accident? Just like nowadays the ox, bull's semina is injected in the cow, artificial semination?
Jñānagamya: Yes, for cows they do that.
Prabhupāda: But that semina is taken from a bull. Why not chemically prepare and inject?
Jñānagamya: Also for humans sometimes, humans also.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, you have to take from another living being. Why not prepare the chemicals? Then postdated check: "Yes, we are trying. Wait millions of years." The same rascaldom. And who is preparing that chemical? You have to wait for millions of years, who is preparing that chemical now?
Nava-yauvana: Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: What is your answer? Who is preparing now the chemicals? You are, just like you are trying to prepare some chemical, so the chemical is already there. So somebody has prepared, you have to accept, huh? Why not?
Jñānagamya: You said once before they are spending so much money to do what has already been done. It has already been done and they are spending millions...
Prabhupāda: One liter means?
Dr. Patel: Two pounds.
Prabhupāda: So we have got cows, they are supplying more than hundred pounds.
Indian: This cost is three thousand rupees, one cow. Four thousand. (Hindi) pure cows five thousand rupees.
Dr. Patel: They have brought some Holland bulls and Jersey cows and then Indian bulls, and brought some genetic researchers brought out a new hybrid.
Indian: It is very good cow, very good. Giving thirty to forty liters per day.
Hari-śauri: Those cows we have in the Pennsylvania farm, the two best ones, they're the two best pedigree cows in the whole of America. They have their pedigree traced back two hundred and fifty years to when the first cows came to America. Purebreds.
Prabhupāda: In our Philadelphia farm we are selling fifteen hundred dollars extra milk. Fifteen hundred dollars per month. So if cow is properly protected, it can supply immense milk.
Dr. Patel: It was Mr. Nehru, he said that we cannot prohibit cow slaughter. Therefore he made so many wrong things. (break) (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) This is māyā. We are...
Dr. Patel: We are praying to end rebirths by kṛṣṇa-bhakti, and so there is no question of rebirth if we do it sincerely, and it is for the parama-bhakta...
Prabhupāda: So that is your interpretation. But we are trying to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That is our mission. That you produce food grains sufficiently and give protection to the cows so that food grains and milk will give you all benefits of economic question. You'll be satisfied. That's all. Not only that, I have practically seen that by God's arrangement there are so much land on this planet that you can produce ten times food stuff of the whole population. But they are not doing that. They are utilizing land... Just like in Africa I have seen, enough land is there, but what they are doing? They are keeping some cows and bulls, and when they are grown up... They are not given anything to eat. There is enough grass. And as soon as they are fatty, they are taken to the slaughterhouse. Not for their own eating, but exporting. This business is going on. Similar business is going on in Australia and New Zealand. Unnecessarily they are killing these cows, and this shortage of foodstuff and shortage of milk, this is not good arrangement. The recommended process in the Bhagavad-gītā, that annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). If you have sufficient foodstuff, then everyone is satisfied. And it is the duty of the vaiśya class, kṛṣi go-rakṣya vāṇijyam (BG 18.44); go-rakṣya vāṇijyam vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam. The, according to Bhagavad-gītā, this is the business of the vaiśyas. The brāhmaṇas, they should be very much highly educated, enligthened in spiritual knowledge. The kṣatriyas, they should govern, give protection. The vaiśyas, they should produce enough food. And those who are neither brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya, śūdras, they can help. That's all. This is their.... Then everyone will be satisfied. The society will go on. Just like in your body you require brain, the head, you require arms, you require belly, you require legs. Similarly, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. That is essential. If you have simply brain and no leg then it is also useless. There must be brain and leg also. There must be brāhmaṇa, there must be śūdra, there must be.... Then the social arrangement is perfect.
Prabhupāda: Ha. So (Hindi). He will go with you, immediately. Meeting arrange (Hindi). Thank you very much. (pause) Combine together in Vṛndāvana. Fight! Without fight where is life? If there is no fighting then what is that life? That is dead stone. Fight must be there. Kṛṣṇa's whole life is fighting from the very birth. His father carried Him to Gokula where He (indistinct) and He fell down from the Yamunā and... Just born, fighting began. Just born. And at Yaśodāmayī's house, Nanda Mahārāja's house, so many demons daily coming, Śakaṭāsura, Aghāsura, Bakāsura, Pūtanā, so on, so on, so on. Ultimately Kaṁsa, when He was young boy. Vṛndāvana, so many asuras came. You have seen the pictures? Kṛṣṇa is fighting with the horse demon, with the bull, Dyutiman (?), fighting. If Kṛṣṇa is fighting, why not Kṛṣṇa consciousness the same thing. You cannot expect peaceful life. No, there must be fighting, then think "That is Kṛṣṇa's presence, His fight." So this fighting means they're feeling the presence of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Otherwise why they're (indistinct) fight? Had it been an insignificant thing, there was no question of fighting. (Hindi) The gun, howitzer gun, what is that? German, some gun they will go from this part of, this side of English Channel to other. Calais, the other side Calais?
Devotees: Calais.
Prabhupāda: Calais in France. So from France to other side English Channel, London, that's all right.
Guest: Artillery guns?
Prabhupāda: Yes, they... Hitler invented. The gun will be fired from this side.
Hari-śauri: Big, huge gun.
Prabhupāda: Eh? You are intelligent, you... Eh?
Mahāṁśa: You are the intelligent man, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Now, what do you think this idea?
Harikeśa: No, it's wonderful.
Prabhupāda: Yes, do that.
Harikeśa: In Vṛndāvana I saw a water-bull, just goes around in the circle all day and makes the water come up on these little catchers. And then it goes...
Prabhupāda: Yes, so many means there are watering.
Harikeśa: The whole field.
Prabhupāda: Yes. People have lost the program. These rascals they draw all these men to manufacture Goodyear tire and eat store (?). This is going on. Modern man, they draw all these man, "Come on, I shall pay you 20 rupees daily. Prepare Goodyear tire, and eat store. Take paper. Purchase store. That's all. This is going on. What brain they will have? Twenty rupees they get and they spend ten rupees for wine, and five rupees for cigarette, and fooding, say five rupees. No ghee, no milk. Soul killing civilization. And again this soul killing civilization. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Hm, what you wanted to say?
Devotee: This, your Dr. Ghosh, where he is staying...
Prabhupāda: Water required. Fill up with water and distribute water and produce. Huge quantity. Whatever can be produced. Sugar cane, rice, these are very valuable commodity at the present moment. Produce. And sugar cane means the upper portion will be the food for the cow.
Mahāṁśa: Even rice.
Prabhupāda: Even... Oh, yes. Very, very practic... We want some (indistinct) food. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Bhūtāni means both animal and men. Animals should be well fed. Not only human being, but animal also. Otherwise, how he'll work? Don't use tractor, use this bulls. Otherwise there will be a problem, how to engage the bulls.
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Engage them for transport, for plowing.
Mahāṁśa: We should not get a tractor?
Prabhupāda: No. When you have got bulls, why should you get...?
Mahāṁśa: We have only 8 pairs of bulls.
Prabhupāda: Yes, and other bulls have been eaten up. Now we stop that eating. Now if you need, you can purchase tractor. But as far as possible try to avoid, and engage the bulls. Otherwise, it will be problems. The Europeans have invented tractors, and the bull is a problem. Therefore they must be sent to the slaughterhouse. So we can not create that problem. How the bull should be utilized? They should be used for transport, and plowing. What is this turmoil?
Devotee: I think they are distributing prasādam.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: There, there. Not here. They're on that side. Now they are not going to have any more beef now, from first of January. Cows are prohibited. Practically the whole India there will be no cow slaughter. That is why Vinoda Bhave was putting on a fast unto death. Still, he did not...
Jagadīśa: I thought he killed bulls.(?)
Dr. Patel: Bulls I included in cows. In place they will kill the buffaloes. The buffaloes are tamed. I don't know how in the world, sir, nowhere these buffaloes are tamed as it is in India. That means what height of these things Indian people must have reached to tame the wild animals.
Prabhupāda: No, buffaloes are killed.
Dr. Patel: No, no. What I mean to say, how buffaloes were tamed and milked and all these things, nowhere in the world other than India you'll see buffaloes, anywhere.
Trivikrama: China.
Dr. Patel: In China they have got? They have also? They have got, Arabian... In Africa, oh, you see a buffalo and bison... (?)
Prabhupāda: Buffalo and bison different.
Dr. Patel: But they are of the same degree or more wild. These are tame. This, sir, is a (Hindi). We call it (Hindi), the Sanskrit word, more or less. (pause)
Prabhupāda: So I shall begin again kitri. (Hindi) (break) ...take agriculture, you must keep cows. Both of them are related.
Girirāja: Together.
Prabhupāda: The cow will be subsisting on the grass, and refused things he'll take. And the substance you take. And even if does not give milk, the stool is useful. And you get food grown by the cows and bulls and milk. You subsist. So by mutual cooperation you subsist. You save time. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Why you are bothered?
Girirāja: No bother.
Prabhupāda: This I want to introduce. And it has become successful in the Western countries. They are doing very nicely, New Vrindaban. Very nice. And Philadelphia, New Orleans. Men, they're happy. So why not in India? India is mainly agricultural country. On this principle you can take. There is no objection. I left Haṁsadūta in charge, but he left everything.
Girirāja: Actually, it seems that in your system of management, the basic principle is to depend on Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Durbhikṣa. Anāvṛstya durbhikṣā kara-pīḍitaḥ (SB 12.2.9). There will be no rainfall, scarcity of food, and government will tax. Government will contribute twenty-five crores, and they will tax three hundred crores on this beach.(?) And before giving twenty-five crores, the other three hundred crores they will divide amongst themselves. (chuckles) That's all. (break)
(in a car driving through traffic)
Rāmeśvara: ...two demons, she was feeling thirst. So Lord Śiva with the end of his trident created this hole. And then he sent his bull carrier to gather waters from all the sacred rivers in the universe. An then Lord Brahmā came...
Prabhupāda: Bindu-sarovara. Drop by drop. Bindu means drop. So the sarovara came into existence by contribution from all rivers. (break) Bhuvaneśvara will help me. I have got little hint.
Gargamuni: Maybe we should build a permanent house for Your Divine Grace also.
Prabhupāda: We shall build there, in our place.
Gargamuni: Yes, there. I mean a separate bungalow there.
Prabhupāda: No, if we build like Māyāpura, a portion is sufficient. It is well-known sanitarium. (end)
Rāmeśvara: That was their sport, entertainment, just like wrestling in India, but in the Middle East in Roman times the wrestling was fought until somebody had to be killed. That was their entertainment. They wanted to see them die. Even today, actually, all the entertainment in America and the Western world is based on violence. They have bull fighting. They want to see the bull tortured and killed. And they have chicken fighting and they have...
Prabhupāda: Dog fighting.
Rāmeśvara: And even the most popular sport in America now is football. It is more popular than baseball, and it's based on men jumping on each other. While one team is carrying the ball, every... A very violent sport.
Hari-śauri: And boxing also. So many different sports.
Rāmeśvara: They are fascinated by pain and fighting.
Prabhupāda: Torture. They like to see that somebody is tortured by another.
Hari-śauri: All the movies are becoming increasingly more violent. And on TV.
Rāmeśvara: Yes, actually there is... I was just told. There is one movie now which is breaking all the records for attendance. It is called "The Omen," and it is about a prophecy in the Bible called the Antichrist. This idea is that the Devil comes from hell to the planet earth, and he impregnates one woman, and then his son is born. So the son is called Antichrist, son of the Devil. And he is very powerful with mystic power, very evil, and he takes over the whole world. So there's a movie now about this, and it's breaking all the sales records. And in the movie they have all sorts of ghastly things happening. This is what people like to see. They like to be scared. Horror movies are also very popular. People go to the movie, and they come out, and they have nightmares for a week. It is so frightening with special effects, and that is... They are paying money to be frightened.
Prabhupāda: While sometimes the movies that are demonstrated in the plane, I close my eyes. I do not like to see them because that impression carries. It is a very disturbing fact to me.
Prabhupāda: Like monkeys, yes. Markaṭa-vairāgya. (break) And they are living very rich. And if you make big, big cities without industry, cities cannot be maintained. You'll require so many instruments, machine. That means you require (indistinct). If you require food, there is no need of industry.
Satsvarūpa: I remember in school seeing films of India, and they would say, "This is very backward. They're living as they used to live hundreds of years ago by using the ox and the plow."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now we have, hundred years after, we have learned how to kill ox and bulls. That is your advancement. And kill your own children also. Rascal civilization. They say "primitive." I was talking with a priest in Australia. So he said, "This civilization you are suggesting, this is primitive." Do they call it primitive?
Satsvarūpa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And what is the wrong with the primitive?
Satsvarūpa: They think it's shocking that the way they used to live hundreds of years ago, they're still living. But in America...
Prabhupāda: So what improvement you have done, rascal?
Satsvarūpa: Motorcars, roads, buildings.
Prabhupāda: So what is benefit of motorcar?
Satsvarūpa: No benefit.
Prabhupāda: How you can prove? You can hear only. There are many things which is beyond your sense perception. The example which I often give, that "Who is your father?" What is proof? The proof is the hearing from mother. That's all. You cannot have any other proof.
Satsvarūpa: "Although celestial beings are not visible to the naked eyes of the inhabitants of this earth, it was due to the influence of Mahārāja Parīkṣit that the demigods also agreed to be visible. The kings used to spend lavishly during such sacrifices as the cloud distributes rains. A cloud is nothing but another form of water, or, in other words, the waters of the earth transform into clouds. Similarly, the charity made by the kings in such sacrifices are but another form of the taxes collected from the citizens. But as the rains fall down very lavishly and appear to be more than necessary, the charity made by such kings also seems to be more than what the citizen needs. Satisfied citizens will never organize agitation against the king, and thus there was no need of changing the monarchial state. Even for a king like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira there was needed a spiritual master for guidance. Without such guidance one cannot make progress in spiritual life. The spiritual master must be bona fide, and one who wants to have self-realization must approach and take shelter of a bona fide spiritual master to achieve real success.
- (text 4)
- nijagrāhaujasā vīraḥ
- kaliṁ digvijaye kvacit
- nṛpa-liṅga-dharaṁ śūdraṁ
- ghnantaṁ go-mithunaṁ padā
(translation) "Once when Mahārāja Parīkṣit was on his way to conquer the world, he saw the master of Kali-yuga, who was lower than a śūdra, disguised as a king and hurting the legs of a cow and bull. The King at once caught hold of him to deal sufficient punishment." (purport) "The purpose of a king's going out to conquer the world is not for self-aggrandizement. Mahārāja Parīkṣit went out to conquer the world after his ascendance on the throne, but this was not for the purpose of aggression on other states. He was the emperor of the world, and all small states were under his regime. His purpose in going out was to see how things were going on in terms of the godly state. The king, being the representative of the Lord, has to execute the will of the Lord duly. There is no question of self-aggrandizement. Thus as soon as Mahārāja Parīkṣit saw that a lower-class man in the dress of a king was hurting the legs of a cow and bull..." (break)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Your scientific knowledge, your car, means you are more dependent. Now, suppose you have to stay here. You had to, some very important business. Now whole thing is finished. But if you have calculated without having this car, then you would have done your duty. So the more material advancement means more you become dependent, more you become rascal. That is calculation by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Jaḍa-vidyā jato, māyāra vaibhava, jīvake karaye gādhā, tomāra bhajane bādhā. Anitya saṁsāre, moha janamiyā, jīvake karaye gādhā. My business is that how to leave this material conditional life and become free. Now, with this so-called advancement of science I am becoming more and more attached. So I'll never get freedom. This is the result. Because I am trying in different way how to get, freedom. "Yes, wait millions of years. We shall do it. We shall do this." Gādhā, ass. You'll die trillions of times within millions of years, and he is expecting good result of his scientific... By the time, he'll become a banyan tree and stand there by nature's law, and he's expecting good result after millions of years. So gādhā, ass. Durāśaya. This has been described as durāśaya. He's expecting something, hoping something, will never be fulfilled. They calculate. "Millions of years we shall get how to make life." And the, an ordinary chicken, he is doing this within seven days. And these rascals will have to wait for millions of years and wait that a life is coming from the egg, and other rascals, set of rascals, they are accepting. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's statement is jīvake karaye gādhā. He's already an ass. He becomes a more ass, big ass. Anitya saṁsāre... More than. He's destined to change everything, anitya, everything nonpermanent, but he is illusioned—"Yes, we shall make it permanent." This is moha. Which he will never be able to do, he is expecting... "We shall do it." This is also called another logic, nyāya, bakāṇḍa-nyāya. You have seen bakāṇḍa-nyāya? Baka and aṇḍa. One bull is going and his testicle hanging, and another duck, he is thinking, "It is a fish. It will drop, and I shall take it." This is practical. This is psych... You'll see a bull is going on and testicle hanging, and another duck is going after him. From this baka the word baka has come. Sometimes we say baka. This bakāṇḍa-nyāya.
Prabhupāda: We don't say that, that this direction, what you are saying, it is end. That is not. We say that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That it doesn't end.
Prabhupāda: That you can go further, but you cannot go. Therefore you are thinking, "This is end of the position." The same dog mentality. He is within that small area. He is thinking, "There is no more, other space." That example is another, that bull. His eyes are closed, and he crushes the oil mill, going. He's thinking he is going three hundred miles.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They keep the eyes blinded so he won't...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...understand what's going on.
Prabhupāda: Because in one place, simply going round, going round, it makes one mad. So those eyes are closed. He is thinking, "This is the end of world."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you have said that, but still you have not given the solution.
Prabhupāda: This is solution.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You've explained it...
Prabhupāda: Solution is that you are thinking, "This is this." You are making solution. You are making solution.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I didn't notice. Here's a little news clipping. It's probably the same. You probably have seen this already. This is from Indian Express. "Why Krishna Mandir Men Fired Salvo." By a... "An attack on the devotees and destruction of the premises of ISKCON Māyāpura Chandrodaya Mandir, West Bengal, led to the shooting incident, according to Mr. Gopāla Kṛṣṇa Dāsa, Secretary, Bombay center of the organization. Mr. Dāsa, in his statement issued on Monday, said the news from their sources in Bengal stated that on July 8th about fifty miscreants were found encroaching on our agricultural field and stealing our crops. When a devotee requested them to stop, they became angry and beat him up, fracturing his skull. Nearly 250 supporters of the miscreants..." Notice how they're not going to use "Muslims." They say "miscreants." They don't say "Muslims." Probably the paper wants to avoid. This is a hot issue. No one wants to write "Hindu-Muslim." "Nearly 250 supporters of the miscreants armed with sticks and spears suddenly appeared from behind the bushes and all of them entered the temple area. Mr. Dāsa said the miscreants beat several more devotees, including the Gurukula school headmaster, whose both hands and skull were broken. They also stripped naked a female disciple. They cut off electrical connections, telephone lines and water pipes. The police did not come for two hours, and meanwhile the group destroyed the gate, broke windows and stole two bulls. According to ISKCON Secretary, as a final resort, one ran for a gun, appropriately licensed and registered with the government, and fired a shot in the air. As the group persisted, he fired again into the ground which injured eleven of the miscreants. All of those injured have been discharged from the hospital." They're not injured seriously at all. "Mr. Dāsa said the police advised the devotees to go to the Krishnanagar police station to report the incident, and when they did go there they were arrested. Two devotees in critical condition were also detained in the jail hospital. Asked why our men have been kept in jail, the police replied, 'As a precaution.' "
Prabhupāda: This report is already there.
Lokanātha: Take five kilometers an hour.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's six hours to get there. Six hours to get there, and then three hours around Govardhana. Nine hours.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And six hours back.
Pañca-draviḍa: And the bulls might have to rest.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You have to rest the bulls, don't you?
Pañca-draviḍa: There's one route we went on in Vṛndāvana, on a parade. Shorter route. First time, as an experiment, we could go a shorter distance.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's quite a big experiment to make, going to Govardhana the first day, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You feel confident that you can travel nine hours in a row on a bullock cart?
Prabhupāda: I am sleeping here.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Lokanātha: He says he's sleeping here.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But this is not a bullock cart.
Prabhupāda: The same thing.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The same thing?
| Page Title: | Bull (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 14 of Apr, 2013 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=56, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 56 |