British (Conversations 1974 - 1975)

Expressions researched:
"britain" |"british" |"britisher" |"britisher's" |"britishers" |"brittanic" |"brittanica" |"brittanicas"

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ideal, radicalist, idealist. But if you can induce them... That is also another process...

Umāpati: Through influence.

Prabhupāda: They agree. Then automatically, slaughterhouse will be closed. If there is no customer for meat, then slaughterhouse will be closed. Just like Gandhi started this movement, non-cooperation, "Don't cooperate with the British government." That was his... Because the Britishers were ruling India with the cooperation of the Indians. Otherwise, how they could rule? The soldiers were Indian, the police were Indian, the secretariat, office, clerks, they were Indians—all Indians. But they manufactured in such a way that they were cooperating. So Gandhi took the route that "You non-cooperate; then the Britishers will automatically go away." That was his movement. Similarly, if we educate public that "You must find out a leader who is free from these sinful activities. Then you will be happy. And you also give up. Otherwise, how you will be able to select such a leader?" This should be our real propaganda. Otherwise they will think that "They're against our real joyful life. So these men are useless." You have to explain that "If these things, sinful activities, you prolong, then you cannot become happy."

Morning Walk -- February 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Dr. Patel: ...we have been very fond of America. We have been taking great example of Americans during last hundred years. Now they have started degenerating. And that happens with everyone.

Prabhupāda: But the...

Dr. Patel: British degenerated; so they must degenerate.

Prabhupāda: Degenerating means...

Dr. Patel: Degeneration must come. (indistinct) It's not so-called revolution.

Prabhupāda: So they are...

Dr. Patel: (indistinct) they degenerate for others. So that (indistinct) degenerate. We degenerated. So the Muslims degenerated. Americans will degenerate. Somebody else will degenerate. Is that sort of a will? No?

Prabhupāda: So janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrī, good birth, riches, education, and sri, beauty, these are the result of pious activities.

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: No, no. I think it is so, to my mind. Look at the history of India. After thousand years ready...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Religion does not depend on history. It does not depend on history. It depends on culture, how one is sincere.

Dr. Patel: But when one culture is infected by a dirty culture of other people, the culture gets spoiled. You know, you put one...

Prabhupāda: Just like you are medical man. During British rule, you were medical man, and home rule, you are medical man. It does not mean it has to be changed because the government has changed. One who is unscrupulous, he changes.

Dr. Patel: What I mean to say is culture. If you take, put a...

Prabhupāda: Anything! Culture, this religious culture...

Dr. Patel: If you put two rotten mangoes in a tokari (?) of good mangoes, all will be rotten. That is what has happened to us.

Prabhupāda: So that means it is meant for the, who cannot resist.

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Vedic injunction is gurum eva abhigacchet: "You must go to a bona fide spiritual master if you want to make your life perfect." There is no question whether I shall go or not. "You must!" That is the beginning of human life. Otherwise animal life. He has no spiritual master. He's not going to obey anyone. He's working in his own whims. That is animal life. Real life here begins.

tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet

samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham

(MU 1.2.12)

This is the Vedic injunction. You cannot do anything without abiding the orders of spiritual master. That is surrender. How nice water it is. (break) And there are many thousands, you'll find. And we are thinking, "Oh, if I go away, who will feed my son? Who will feed my daughter?" He'll never think that "If so many animals are fed by the Supreme," eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān, "He's supplying all the necessity why not for me or for my other children?" It is māyā that one thinks that "Without me...," Just like Gandhi was thinking. Unless he was killed... He was always thinking, "Without me, India will be spoiled." India will be spoiled. It was spoiled. Therefore you wanted sva-rājya... And after his death, it is also spoiled. So India's karma will have to suffer, either Gandhi's there or not there. Prakṛteḥ kriya... Prakṛteḥ: Everything is being done by the material nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ, by, dictated by different modes of nature. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate: (BG 3.27) The rascal, being bewildered by, he's thinking, "Without me, everything will be spoiled. I am the director. I am the director!" So I requested Gandhi, "Now you come out of this turmoil, politics. Just preach Bhagavad-gītā." No. He'll be killed. That's all. This is the way. Going on. Even a Gandhi commits mistake, what to speak of others. What is the effect of this sva-rājya. The effect of sva-rājya is that people are starving. That's all. At least, British government would not allow like this. That's a fact.

Morning Walk -- March 7, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Everyone will understand. Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is proved. We are going to Africa. We are going to Canada, Europe, America. Everyone chants Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is the language. When a young man and young woman loves one another, there is no question of language. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that "Suppose you are in a foreign country. You do not know the language. But when there is fire, you get friends without any language." You see? In the beginning of British rule, there were not very many English-knowing Indians so a clerk in his office was working. So monkey came and he scattered the office papers. So after the monkey was driven away, he was collecting the papers. In the meantime, his English boss came. "What is this, man?" So he could not say. He began to jump. You see. "Monkey, sir. Monkey, sir. (laughter) Monkey, sir." "All right. All right. That's all right." Simply to inform, without any language, you can jump, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa." And he will understand. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa... (Bengali)

Guest: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (break) (Bengali) Hare Kṛṣṇa and dance. Do this. (break) ...and for constructing four buildings like that. (break) Kṛṣṇa took part in politics. So what is His politics? What is His sociology? What is His culture?

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is (indistinct) fifty lakhs, twenty-five, that is beyond us. We can spare up to two lakhs, that's all. (break) ... be able to manage. (break) ...people.

Gurudāsa: Yes. The Britishers.

Prabhupāda: Britishers, they train. Just like in India, they trained. They were on the head of the administration. The Viceroy, the governor, the secretaries, the military commander, they are all Englishmen. All other, Indians. Therefore Gandhi started non-cooperation movement. That these people are ruling over us by our cooperation.

Gurudāsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So non-cooperate with them, they will fail. And that was successful. He started non-cooperation movement, that "Don't cooperate with these Britishers," and when they saw there is now full non-cooperation, they left voluntarily. It is not possible to bring so many administrators, military strength, men, men too. Actually the British empire was expanded through the help of Indians.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Gurudāsa: Yes, they did all the work.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gurudāsa: Actually if the British were more intelligent they could have continued.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

Gurudāsa: Just like that mutiny. The grease was used in the guns, and the brāhmaṇas mutinied.

Prabhupāda: That is propaganda. Now, this is urine?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Just see nonsense.

Gurudāsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Who has passed this thing? (break) ...then other qualities.

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: United States. Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma... (break)

Dr. Patel: ...over-clever or whatever you may call, but the American would be outwitted by a Gujarati baniya if he has got the same money, same, I mean, freedom of business and same facility to work. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the plan is to drive away the Gujaratis from Africa. (laughter) Yes. The Britishers are afraid. The Britishers are afraid that if the Indians, they are allowed to remain here, they will not be able to exploit the Africans.

Dr. Patel: All Indians and all Gujarati baniyas who settled in Africa, one and all are multi-millionaires.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...also.

Dr. Patel: But they have migrated to London now. They are very well... People from England, I mean, Africa, especially East Africa, Kenya and Uganda... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...their own house in London. Every Indian. (break) Englishmen, they haven't got their own house.

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1974, Hyderabad:

Akṣayānanda: They get shot. The police come and shoot them.

Prabhupāda: That's all. And tax you and get fat salary. That's all. This is government. They will degrade you and take your money and enjoy themselves. That's all. (break) ...revolution in India. Yes. Because people are hungry. There is no food. A very great revolution. So long they were under Vedic culture, they were suffering. Suffering in this way-tolerating. Now that culture is gone. Now they will be violent. Just like in other countries. If you pinch somebody on and on, there will be a violent protest. In the beginning you may tolerate. But if you go on pinching, pinching, pinching, how long you will tolerate? This is India's condition. Britishers, when they were ruling, had some responsibility. Although they were exploiting, but they were arranging for sufficient food and other things. But these people are irresponsib..., simply personal. "Whatever money I can get, that's all." This is going on. All these so-called ministers, they come to the post for taking money, as much as possible. (break) It must have been belonging to some Nawab, Nizam. It is aristocratic building, not ordinary building.

Morning Walk -- April 24, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: ...the modern politicians. Here at the present moment their philosophy is that one must be very cunning diplomat, then he's successful politician. This is their philosophy. The most crooked man, like Cāṇakya. But our philosophy is that the political head should be like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, Lord Rāmacandra, that is difference. Here Churchill or Hitler or similar man, crooked man... Without being crooked one cannot become politician. Lloyd George, the British Prime Minister, he said that "Consistency in politics is the qualification of an ass." Consistency. You must change. (break)

Mahāṁśa: You should never trust a politician, so if you cannot trust a politician, why we elect him as a leader, why should he be a leader?

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, "Do not trust" means you are also not trustworthy, nobody trusts you, and you should also not. That is their philosophy. All these big, big politicians, just like United Nations. The same philosophy is going on. Nobody trusts anyone, but they speak big, big...

Akṣayānanda: Did he mean because the politician will degrade... (end)

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: You know that way they behaved with Gandhiji in South Africa.

Prabhupāda: Beaten him like anything. He would have died. (break) Fisher's, Fisherman's island. "I shall again turn them into fisherman's island."

Dr. Patel: British people is the fisherman's island.

Prabhupāda: Germany is the bitterest enemy of Britain.

Dr. Patel: Stalin.

Prabhupāda: No, Germany, whole Germany. They do not like to speak in English also. Yes, I have seen it. Even they know English, they'll not speak. In the bank they could speak a little, little English, but they avoid. Then I took... What is that boy that first went to...?

Bhāgavata: Śivānanda.

Prabhupāda: Śivānanda. Then I... Śivānanda talked in German. (break) ...two wars is due to Germany's hatred to Britain. That's all. There was always competition in colonization between France, Holland...

Dr. Patel: German. All of them.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, not Germany. Not Germany. Germany never tried for colonization.

Dr. Patel: Belgium, such a small thing, they have half of the Central Africa like a pyramid standing on its tip. (break)

Prabhupāda: Britishers were maintaining the British Empire at the cost of India. Soldiers, money...

Dr. Patel: Indian Army was Indian Civil totally. Even today it is so. Indian Army fought... (break)

Prabhupāda: Pathans, Sikhs, they fought so nicely.

Dr. Patel: This Mount Hazenot(?) battle, which I read very...

Prabhupāda: (break) (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Girirāja: "Śukadeva Gosvāmī has used the word śraddhānvita for one who is trained in the spiritual life. Śraddhā, or faith, is the beginning. One who has developed his faith in Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the supreme spirit soul, can both describe and hear." (break)

Prabhupāda: Why?

Devotee: They're in the hospital.

Bhāgavata: Caranaravinda was the hospital.

Prabhupāda: So who is take care, him? (break) ...authorities. Anu. Anu means follow. Anuśṛṇuyat. Śṛṇu means "hear." Krīditaṁ ca idaṁ ca vikrīdita vraja-vadhūbhiḥ, viṣṇoḥ anuśṛṇuyāt. Don't directly read. Don't directly. Anuśṛṇuyāt: "Hear from the authoritative person."

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...Vaiṣṇava kavi has sung,

viṣaya chāriyā, se rase mājīyā,

mukhe bala hari hari

Unless you are free from the material desires, you cannot enjoy what is the celestial or spiritual bliss in chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. If one has got material desires, he cannot enjoy.

viṣaya chāriyā, se rase mājīyā,

mukhe bala hari hari

(break) ...can see here United Nation actually. Here is Britisher, here is American, here is African, here is Indian, here is Hindu, Canadian, Hindu, Muslim, Christian-all. This is United Nation. Just let them see practically what is United Nation. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra—all combined in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why do they not see? The so-called unity, brotherhood, why do they not see the reality?

Dr. Patel: United Nations were created...

Prabhupāda: No, no, not only United Nation, united in everything, "universal brotherhood," whatever you call-here is the example.

Dr. Patel: So-called United Nations were created not for unity.

Prabhupāda: No, no, either so-called United Nation or so-called nation. Here is also there is nation. What do they know about nation? Everyone, he is interested with his own pocket. That's all. "What money is coming in my pocket." That's all. Where is the nationality? If there was nationality, why such havoc could have happened? Now the strike is going on. There is no feeling of nationality because they are not thinking of the nation; they are thinking of their own pocket, that's all. Where is the nationality? They are simply bogus slogans. Actual unity, nationality, universality, is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is a fact. Let them see. Men, women also. There are women also. We do not hate anyone. Come on. Take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda:

na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ

durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ

(SB 7.5.31)

They are captivated by the external energy. They think by material advancement they will make solution of all problems. That is not possible.

andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās

te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ

He does not know that he is bound up, hands and legs, by the laws of nature, and he is trying to solve it by his own method of material civilization. That is the mistake. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā (BG 3.27). They are all vimūḍhas, mūḍhas, duṣkṛtina, mūḍhas. (Hindi) (break) He asked me, "What is the conception of hell?" I said, "It is your London. By artificial way you have kept it as heaven. But otherwise, it is hell." So this was published.

Dr. Patel: Bombay also is hell. Bombay, nobody inhabited this island till the Britishers came, and they created this spot. The importance of Bombay backward... Otherwise so far hell is concerned they are both place. Best is Bangalore in India. Best.

Prabhupāda: (break) Doctor can manage securing medicine, distributing. That is another thing.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Richard Webster: Lord Chamberlain tried to stop the war.

Prabhupāda: Well, Chamberlain may tried, might have tried to stop the war, but he could not stop the cause of the war. So far we know that the two wars started by Germany on account of Britain. So far I have studied. The German people did not like the Britishers to occupy the trade all over the world. And wherever they went to trade, they were restricting. I know this fact. In India the Britishers monopolized all trade, and they would not allow German goods to come in. So that was the cause of the war. The German knew that the Britishers, they are purchasing from Germany and stamping it "Made in London" and selling in India at high price. And when the Germans go there, they are not allowed to enter. This is the cause of the war. The Germans still, they do not like to speak in English. They are so envious. So Chamberlain might have tried to stop war, but his nation created the cause of the war. Why there should be... That was the demand, that free trade. Germans, in the, what is called, peace negotiation, their demand was free trade. Everyone... And that is very good. Why trade should be... This is unnatural. Let there be free trade. General public, they want best thing at good price, at cheap price. So if Japan and Germany can supply goods, necessary goods, at cheaper price, why they should be restricted? Let the people take advantage of it.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: No, it is going on. In India I know. They are selling sugar at two annas, four annas a pound, or seer, outside, and India, it is four rupees. What is this nonsense? This is going on. They want to import some war materials or something else, therefore they want export exchange. So they are sacrificing the convenience of the local people for export exchange. These things are going on. These politicians, they create an atmo... Therefore I say the head of the state, they must be clean. But they are all motivated. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition. Generally politician has got a particular motive behind him. And when he cannot pull on they declare war. That Pakistan. Pakistan, since the beginning of Pakistan they could not make any economic condition very sound. But when the people are too much agitated, they declare war with India. The whole attention is... And they have been educated in such a way that India is their strongest enemy. Anything Indian, they dislike in Pakistan. So this is going on by the politicians. They are creating situation because they are not honest, they are not clean. And a clean man cannot become politician. Mr. Lloyd George said that "consistency by the politician is the qualification of an ass." There cannot be any consistency amongst the politicians. So that is the defect, that the politicians are the heads, the leaders of the society, and they are in disagreement. Everyone has got his own ideal, and the fight is going on, and the poor man in the state, they are suffering. Just like in India they partitioned, Pakistan and Hindustan. It was arranged by the leaders, Jinnah and Jawaharlal Nehru. Especially Jinnah. The people are suffering. And the Britishers made partition in such a way that they will remain continually in war because everyone wants the necessities of life. The foodstuff is in Pakistan, and the industry is in India. So the Pakistan will suffer for want of industry, and India will suffer for want of food. This is British plan for partition. They had no business to divide the country, but they wanted to do it as a parting kick, that "You want independence. You will have independence, but you will remain perpetually in war." That was British policy. None of them are benefiting. Occasionally they are fighting and losing so much money and men, that's all, a political game.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: And... Why Calcutta? You go to the airport. You will find so nice gardens, still existing. Now it is spoiled also. Because people have changed locally to the city. Nobody has to take care now. Otherwise, in Bengal especially, throughout the whole India, Bengal was so beautiful. The Europeans became attracted by the beauty of Bengal. Therefore they made Calcutta their capital, the Britishers. Yes. Every European liked Bengal. Every European. I met one European German gentleman in Bombay. He was in Calcutta. When I was in Bimha (?). So I asked, "Why you left Calcutta?" "Oh, I am very sorry. Calcutta was so nice." And actually. Where we have got our temple, these quarters were known as "Sahib" quarter. Just like our temple is "Sahib" temple. So these Chowringee and Camac Street, Park, these were all European. They liked very much to live in Bengal. And there is another story. One English officer he became attracted by the beauty of a Bengali woman. There is story by Bankima Candra. Candrashekhara. The man was after that woman, how to get it. That is the subject matter of story. He was attracted by the black eyes and black hair. Bengali beauty.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: No, why the hippies are lying on the street or in the park? Why? You give them relief. The whole Amsterdam city is full of hippies lying on the street and park. What you are doing for them? They are not poor men. They have got enough to eat. Their parents, father, grandfather, they can give. Why they are lying? What you can do? Go and pick them up. Make them nicely living. Why don't you do that? Talking nonsense. What is their answer? Why they have become hippies? They are not... The Indians may be poverty-stricken, but they are not poverty-stricken. In England the whole British empire is there. The whole American government is there. And still, western countries, they have got resources. They have means. They are not poor. Why your sons and grandsons are lying on the street? What is their answer? They are making plan that everyone would live materially very comfortably, but why these people, in spite of possessing material facilities... (break) Yes, this is the real problem.

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Their developed consciousness is being used for sense gratification. That's all. They have taken up, sense gratification is the highest aim of life. Hedonism. What is that hedonism?

Karandhara: Hedonism means to eat, sleep and be merry.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Yogeśvara: When I was in school, I read that when the British went to Africa to colonize, the first thing they did... In the north there was a tribe called the Ashanti tribe. And the symbol of religion was an axe. Whoever possessed that axe was a leader. So the first thing they did was to import thousands and thousands of axes and they distributed them to everyone. In this way, they destroyed the religious sentiment and then introduced their own system.

Prabhupāda: Who first started this colonization? Britishers or the Spaniards?

Yogeśvara: It was a Britisher.

Karandhara: Spaniards were, I think Portuguese.

Prabhupāda: Portuguese. Because they had very small land.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Krsna immediately gives him all facilities.

Devotee (3): There has never been a movement like this which has given them factual knowledge of God. Therefore, they think it's sentiment, religion.

Prabhupāda: So we have to abide by their sentiment? Because they are rascals, we have to become rascal? Even if you take so-called responsibility, you will not be allowed to carry it out. The example I was giving., Napoleon, Hitler, and Gandhi, they took responsibility but they were driven away. What can you do? So what is the meaning of your responsibility? You will not be allowed to execute your responsibility. What remedy you have done that you will not be allowed, kicked out? Then what is your responsibility? Even if you are very nice gentleman, you have taken responsibility, but nature will not allow you to execute the responsibility. What is your answer to that? Big, big Napoleon, big, big Hitler, big, big Gandhi came and gone. Where is the responsibility executor? The Napoleon was given horse urine, you know, by the Britishers.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: That's all. (break) ...samudvigna, always full of anxiety. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām. Intelligence is always absorbed: "Enemy may not come. Let me discover this, discover this atom bomb. This will save me. This will save me." This is their position. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt (SB 7.5.5). Why this anxiety? Because they have accepted something false as truth. Asad-grahāt. They have accepted sense gratification is the truth. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhuḥ. Indriyāṇi means senses. Parā, supreme. This is supreme. And then, if somebody is little advanced, indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ. Then the mental speculators, psychologists, philosophers, another, better class of rascals... This is the third-class rascal, and they are second-class rascal. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ, manasas tu parā buddhiḥ (BG 3.42). Then the intelligent class. They consider, "What is this nonsense? They are all suffering here." In this way, one who becomes actually intelligent, wise, then he understands, "Kṛṣṇa is everything." Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So that highest position we are giving by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are not training them to be first-class fools, second-class fools, third-class... No. First-class intelligent. Kṛṣṇa yei bhaje sei baḍa catura. Without being first-class, intelligent man, nobody can take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness (break) ...drink everything. And why they fight? What is the cause? Suppose father gives all necessities of life to the children. Why they should fight? Simply ignorance and foolishness. That's all. Where is the cause of fighting? Just like Pāṇḍavas, to settle up their misunderstanding, Kṛṣṇa said, "All right, they are kṣatriyas, They cannot take up the occupation of vaiśya or śūdra. Give them five villages so that they'll be happy. They'll rule over, each one on the village." "No, Sir. Not a piece of land holding the tip of the needle can be spared without fighting." This is the world. The German, German war, First World War, what was the cause? The cause was that the Britishers will not allow the Germans to trade all over the world. They captured everything.

Room Conversation with Reverend Gordon Powell, Head of Scots Church -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Reverend Powell: Is there some sort of relationship with Lord Kṛṣṇa? I mean...

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is relationship. He's coming from Kṛṣṇa. He... Jesus the Christ. Christ means Christo or Kristo or Kṛṣṇa.

Reverend Powell: Yes? Hm. Another thing. We, of course, have been impressed by the number of young Australians who have become interested in the Hare Krishna Movement and we really congratulate you, sir, on the very fine work (Prabhupāda chuckles) that you've done, and the ones who have rescued the ladies from the fire the other day. But I think everybody recognizes that they're most sincere, that they're not involved because they're not being blessed. They feel they're getting something out of it. But how do you explain... I gather that most countries, in Britain and America and so on that there are many thousands...

Prabhupāda: In Africa. In China, in Japan. Everywhere.

Reverend Powell: And now, how do you explain this? Why are people...? Why are...?

Prabhupāda: Because they are on the spiritual platform, they forget the material designation.

Reverend Powell: They're mostly young people, aren't they, or are they, you have all ages?

Prabhupāda: Yes, young, young people, they have got brain, (Reverend Powell laughs) receptive.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: The big two wars of the world happened only on account of this industry. Do you know that? The cause is the big, big industry. Germany industrial, they produce goods. They must have market. But when they go to sell, there is no market. Britishers will not allow to sell them. The Britisher will take, purchase from them, and stamp it "Made in England" and sell it. And this is the cause of two big war. Therefore German declare twice war. Disaster. Therefore it is said, jagata ahitāya. Then? Go on.

Cāru: Purport?

Prabhupāda: No, the other śloka.

Cāru: Other śloka.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: I think you missed that verse, jagato ahitāya. Anyway, these are the description of demonic activities. So this is practical. The last two disastrous war was waged only for this industry. This is the cause. German, they are actually in Europe very intelligent and their machine products and other things, they make very nice things. At least, I have got experience, German chemicals are first-class chemical. So they manufacture and British occupied the half of the world in their colonization, whole Africa, and they controlled India and China, Japan, yes, China, Burma, Ceylon, Australia. So these poor people, they manufactured. They have got goods enough; where to sell? As soon as they go to the British territories, "No, you cannot sell. If you want to sell, then hundred percent duty." So price increase. This was the grudge. Everyone knows. This is the cause of two wars. The jagato ahita. Now, why so much? You require a scissor? Go to a blacksmith and pay something. He'll make a scissor. "No. Produce millions of scissor." Then where is market, sir? This is going on. Produce millions of TV machine. Simple they are used for wasting time. One or two or five made for some important business. Now they are producing millions of sets. They must sell. And people are induced to purchase.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: You are spirit soul. If you degrade yourself, you then get this." You make that television, that how transmigration of the soul is taking place. They have manufactured the machine, so utilize for your propaganda. We have got to do so many things. We can utilize everything. So if they are not used for Kṛṣṇa's purpose they'll be used for committing disaster in the world. Just like the atomic bomb. They are meant for creating disaster, that's all. What else they can do? And now everyone is having atomic weapon, just like India has now got. That means they are preparing, by nature's course they are preparing for war, and "I put my atomic bomb on your head, and you put on my head. You die, I die, that's all." They simply die. Now what was the result of the disastrous war twice? The whole European nations ruined. They are not no more rich. I saw in Paris, in Germany. They are not as rich as the Americans. Because American inland, there was no such big war, so their opulence is existing, but on account of these two wars, British completely finished. Yes. British completely. It is now... Hitler wanted that "I shall again make these English people a fisherman's island. They have to take their business to fishing only." (laughter) That was Hitler's declaration.

Morning Walk at Marine del Rey -- July 13, 1974, Los Angeles:

Kṛṣṇa-kānti: Śrīla Prabhupāda's morning walk, recorded July 10, 1974 in Venice Beach. (break) Testing 1,2,3. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Testing 1,2,3. Testing 1,2,3. (break) Testing. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Morning Walk, July 13, 1974, in Marina del Rey. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...have discrimination because the British government, they think that the Ratha-yatra is becoming very popular.

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is the... It is actually rational discrimination. The Christians, they thought, "Now these Englishmen, they'll make Hindu religion very prominent." Because it is a fact. If we introduce such three-four celebrations, then Christianity will be finished. But what is there? Christianity, there is nothing. Simply some dry words. And actually, they're seeing, nobody's coming to the church. So in this way, if they some, relish something better, then whatever is there, that will be finished, also. Therefore in London we wanted to purchase a church.

Morning Walk at Marine del Rey -- July 13, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That "On certain plea only, they have stopped our most important ceremony." In this way agitation must go on. And our men, those who took part in political agitation, they should go there and speak everywhere, that "It is religious discrimination."

Bali Mardana: They should have a protest meeting in front of the Parliament building, with signs.

Prabhupāda: Protest meeting must be there. How to organize? At least, a protest meeting should be done in such a way that the whole world may know that the British Government stopped the yearly Ratha-yatra ceremony of the Hindus. That should be organized. What can be done? You are not very strong GBC's. There must be vehement protest meeting.

Bali Mardana: They can protest in front of Downing Street, in front of the Prime Minister's residence.

Prabhupāda: Yes, protest meeting, go on, organize. Go, all of you. What is the talking here? They have seen that the movement is growing more important. So this is discrimination. In England the Church is very strong. They have organized like this. You quote the publication, "There is no alarm." Of course, it is on the plea of police protest, police objection. The police objection means one's religious ceremony should be stopped? What is this? Simply for some technical mistake, now they can warn that "You must do it. Otherwise it will be stopped." How is that? No. That means this is police government? Does it mean it is police government?

Morning Walk at Marine del Rey -- July 13, 1974, Los Angeles:

Bali Mardana: They can protest in front of Downing Street, in front of the Prime Minister's residence.

Prabhupāda: Yes, protest meeting, go on, organize. Go, all of you. What is the talking here? They have seen that the movement is growing more important. So this is discrimination. In England the Church is very strong. They have organized like this. You quote the publication, "There is no alarm." Of course, it is on the plea of police protest, police objection. The police objection means one's religious ceremony should be stopped? What is this? Simply for some technical mistake, now they can warn that "You must do it. Otherwise it will be stopped." How is that? No. That means this is police government? Does it mean it is police government?

Bali Mardana: Police state.

Prabhupāda: Police state? And why they are declaring Commonwealth and, British Commonwealth. So if it is governed by the police, how it is Commonwealth? There should be very strong agitation. And all the Hindus will join. So who will organize it? Don't make it childish. It is very serious. (pause) Police should have taken task when the rules were broken by Mahādeva. Why they did not take action in that time? They did not say anything. Police, if there is discrepancy, violation of the rules, they should have taken immediate action. Why they did not take? Now they have manufactured by conspiracy that "This movement should be stopped. Now take this plea." This is going on.

Morning Walk at Marine del Rey -- July 13, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ratha, we start from the Hyde Park to Trafalgar Square. So the ratha must be there. We'll not move. And simply hold meeting, unless the order is given. This is the right course.

Brahmānanda: They should have a meeting until the order is given.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Until the order is given, we shall hold meeting here. Daily." And tell them that "It is, it is police government. Then we should, we should give up British connection." Agitate government that "It has become a police government." Best course will be like that, that "As usual, we shall keep the ratha there. We are not moving." And hold on, go on protest meeting, doing. And keep them there. Let them arrest and go to jail. That is the real effort. (pause) Or one thing do... Satī sārthaṁ samācaret. Therefore I wanted to start this politics. There say, "It is, it is our custom. Unless the ratha is there, there is no ceremony. So you have asked to palanquin. We shall make the ratha here, standing. And after holding our ceremony we shall take the Deity in palanquin and go to the Trafalgar Square. And go to the Trafalgar Square and hold meeting there. But the ratha must be there. It will not move. It will stand here. We shall take the Deities in palanquin and go to the Trafalgar Square." In this way, take police permission, and after going there, along with the ceremony, protest.

Morning Walk at Marine del Rey -- July 13, 1974, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha: Unless there's a conspiracy, there should be no objection.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That will disclose their conspiracy. "We abide by your order that without your order our ratha will not move, go to the Trafalgar... That's all right. You have allowed palanquin. That's accepted." Do like that, tactfully. First of all, take the sanction. In America, in... They have appreciated. That Reverend Powell. No, there is no objection anywhere. Why this rascal, falling-down nation, British, they're objecting? Apāt-kāle viparīta-buddhi. They are falling down, they will commit offense and discrepancies more and more so that they will be nowhere. I think after this Queen, this monarchy there, the so-called monarchy will be also finished. Because her son, her husband, both of them are hippies. The Queen's husband and Queen's son, the Prince of Wales, both of them are hippies. So this monarchy will be also finished. (pause) What that Mahādeva is doing there in Africa?

Brahmānanda: He's not doing very well.

Prabhupāda: He's a rascal, and he was given in charge. Another rascal, Śyāmasundara. What he's doing, sitting and..., only?

Brahmānanda: Just sitting and writing things that cannot be understood.

Room Conversations -- September 10, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You have seen?

Devotee (2): They have a pyramid?

Prabhupāda: Yes, they have brought.

Devotee (1): It's a long obelisk that are there, brought from Egypt.

Prabhupāda: And in the British Museum you will find so many things plundered from here, plundered from here. In the Rome, they are also maintaining such museums, and Paris I saw. This is their competition—wholesale plundering, wholesale plundering.

Devotee (2): They take it... (break)

Prabhupāda: We take that it is a competition of the thieves. All rascals. That's not the civilization. And Mahābhārata history also we find so many demons. Just like..., what is called, that asura, he simply plundered all the beautiful princesses.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: If I say the truth you'll be angry. (chuckling)

Guest (4): No, no one will be angry, but you have mentioned...

Prabhupāda: Gandhi was a politician. What does he know about dharma? He was a politician. He thought it wise that British government is very strong... Before him so many political parties tried to become violent, and they were all curbed down. This Aurobindo also was a leader of anarchist party, and when he was condemned to death, then his senses came: "This is all useless. Let me engage in performing yoga." So Gandhi thought that before him all these violent movement was cast down by the British. So he took it as a method, nonviolence, noncooperation, and to capture the public of India-India is generally inclined religiously—he became a mahātmā. But mahātmā is different. A mahātmā is not interested in politics. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ-prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya-manaso (BG 9.13). That is mahātmā. Mahātmā has nothing to do with politics.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: Every month. In America all the universities, professors, learned scholar, they are giving us standing order, "As soon as published, please send this."

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): Where in the world do we find that people most understand us and join us?

Prabhupāda: America, North America. Now we have come to South America.

Professor: (Spanish) I saw the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement on British television, and they had an interview with the head of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement there, and they sang and they danced and many other things there. So people are very receptive to the message of...

Prabhupāda: All over the world. In Africa also.

Professor: But here in Venezuela, I find that Venezuelans, or at least the government, has been a little bit too intolerant with your people here.

Prabhupāda: Government is not tolerant?

Hṛdayānanda: Has been a little bit too intolerant. In the past they were a little bit pushy. But now they have stopped.

Prabhupāda: No, if anyone reads our books, then he will accept it. Therefore we are trying to publish all our books in different languages.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: He said or the governor said? Anyway, it is... Mr. Casey from Australia—he was governor of Bengal—he said, I think, that thing. His study was like that. He was a politician, that's all.

Ambassador: But God uses whatever material is there and He used him.

Prabhupāda: No, it was God's desire. You see? Without His desire, otherwise how such a vast British power could be driven away by the noncooperation movement? Of course, it was very nicely planned because the Britishers were ruling over India by the cooperation of the Indian.

Ambassador: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So when that cooperation was withdrawn, naturally they could not... They were trying to the last point, but when the Subhas Bose's organization, INA... You have studied that Indian history. Yes. INA. Indian National Army. So this National Army was formed by Subhas Candra Bose outside India with the cooperation of Hitler and Tojo. He's formed that, what is called, Indian government outside India, the INA, the soldiers... The INA soldiers means all the soldiers that were arrested in the battlefield, they were given to Subhas Candra Bose, either by the Japanese or by the Germans. So the soldiers took this opportunity; they voluntarily surrendered to the enemy. So when the Britishers understood that the soldiers, Indian soldiers, are now noncooperating, then they decided, "No, no more. It is not possible." So they voluntarily withdrew, that Sir Sirpiting(?) Lawrence, the secretary of state for India. Then they voluntarily settled up. And they settled up means the last parting kick was partition-Pakistan and India. And they partitioned in such a way that these two people will fight everlong. That is going on. They are very good politicians.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa said that "I am in everyone's heart." Sarvasya. Sarvasya ca aham hṛdi. Hṛdi means the heart. Sanniviṣṭaḥ: "I am there." So He is witnessing everything. So Britishers would have been... They were accepted by the Indians very nicely. People liked, because after the Mohammedan period, when the Britishers came, they did something which was very, very nice for the Indians, and the Indians, they liked them very much. Later on, they became too much greedy. For their own men they wanted to sacrifice everything Indian. So that Jalianwala-bagh. Then the Gandhi came and took this vow that "The Britishers must go, quit India." So Britishers got a very good opportunity for world unity under British Empire. But their only policy was that to exploit others and enrich London. That was their bad policy, yes. They should have ruled for the benefit of the people. Then British rule was very nice.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Ambassador: ...they wouldn't have left easily.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, there was no need. Every country requires good government. So if somebody gives good government and keeps the people nice, happy, and people hasn't got any interest that the... Now they have made like that. Formerly, at least in India, they didn't care whether it is being ruled by the Mohammedans or by the Englishmen or foreign... They wanted peaceful life, that's all. So the Mohammedans, they made their home in India, the Moguls. They were not exploiting India and taking the money outside. Although the Moguls were very luxurious, but they were spending money in India, India's money in India. And, of course, they accuse, the Mohammedan government was very bad. But I think if it was so bad, how they could rule over India for eight hundred years? And in those days Indians were in their own culture. They did not lose their culture, Hindu culture. The Britishers peacefully killed the Hindu culture, Vedic culture, yes.

Ambassador: I saw where they killed it much more effectively, and that was in Ceylon.

Prabhupāda: Ceylon, oh.

Ambassador: India's too big to kill, so it lived. But Ceylon was practically finished. There is nothing of its own left. They had to reinvent it after they got rid of the British.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: (Speaks in Bengali) Caitanya Mahāprabhu ordered,

bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra

janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra

(CC Adi 9.41)

This is para-upakāra. So what is this nonsense para-upakāra, creating an atom bomb? Is that para-upakāra? Of course, it has got its utilization, but it is not for para-upakāra. (Bengali) Paricaryātmakaṁ karma śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). (Bengali) Śūdra is the cātur division, that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Cātur-varnyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Now in India mostly they are śūdras, 99.9. They are not interested that satya śamo damas titikṣa arjavaḥ, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). (Bengali) They are captivated by the śūdras. This, during the British period the śūdra activities, developing the country by railway, by factory, by bridge—these people are innocent. They thought that "Oh, here is the actual civilization. The Britishers have brought." They lost their own civilization.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. That we admire, that you are trying to understand God. But there is no God, and they are becoming God—that is nonsense.

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Rāmeśvara: Some people say that Darwin was paid by the British...

Prabhupāda: Yes, I said.

Rāmeśvara: ...to make propaganda.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Against religion.

Prabhupāda: Not against religion. Against Indian culture.

Rāmeśvara: Against Indian cultu...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Britishers made so many attempts that "Indians were uncivilized, and we have come here to make them civilized."

Morning Walk -- (World War III) -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Indian citizenship?

Prabhupāda: If you take, it is very nice. Then they will ask you to go to war. (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Will this war spread to many different countries and continents?

Prabhupāda: The actual war will be between America and Russia.

Rūpānuga: What about British devotees, British citizens? Would the British be asked to leave, British citizens? Commonwealth citizens?

Prabhupāda: Britishers are now finished. They have no importance.

Pañcadraviḍa: He means if British devotees came to India, would they be asked to leave.

Prabhupāda: No, no, I mean to say... I am speaking of politics. Devotees are the same... Oh, British citizens...? They may...

Rūpānuga: You say the Americans might have to leave. What about the British?

Prabhupāda: But they, generally, during wartime...

Viṣṇujana: Everyone.

Morning Walk -- April 6, 1975, Mayapur:

Pañcadraviḍa: That was Nehru's contribution?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Pañcadraviḍa: Nehru started that slaughterhouse?

Prabhupāda: No, it is British contribution, the mlecchas. Before British period, even in Mohammedan period, there was no slaughterhouse, neither the public used to take cow's flesh. Still in Mohammedan country, Afghanistan, these places, they do not take cow's flesh. Lamb, goats. In the Vedic culture, the cow is recommended to be protected, not other animals. Other animals, the meat-eaters can eat.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even the buffalo.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Buffalo.

Prabhupāda: Yes, buffalos. Cow is very important animal. Therefore it is recommended to protect it. From social benefit point of view, it is essential that cow should be protected so that you can get lots of milk preparations and keep your health very nice. So many nice preparations can be made from milk. In New Vrindaban, the other farmers, they come. They are surprised to see: "Oh, so many nice preparations!" They are appreciating. They do not know. It is the industrialist who has introduced this meat-eating. Because they are attracting men from village to work in the factory, so they have made it a policy that "We shall eat cow's flesh. That's all. We don't require..." In Russia, practically, they eat only cow's flesh. They do not know anything else to eat.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, the colonizing propaganda was amongst these three nation. France, English...

Dhanañjaya: Spanish and Portuguese. Spanish also.

Prabhupāda: Ah, that side, is, means Western side.

Guru-kṛpa: Spanish went to South America.

Dhanañjaya: But the British used to say, "The sun never sets in the British empire."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that we knew in our childhood.

Jayādvaita: Now there's no empire for the sun to set on.

Prabhupāda: No. Now they have made it Commonwealth, keeping some scent, flavor of British empire. Commonwealth.

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Devotee: No.

Prabhupāda: So, this is foolishness. You become very bold enough, "Now I shall cook without fire." You are a rascal number one. Gandhi did it. Actually he could not drive away the Britishers by nonviolence, for thirty years, thirty-five years he struggled. When Subash Bose introduced violence, they were forced out. This is politics. Politics and nonviolence (incompatible). There is no history in the world that politics has been successful without violence, and he introduced this. So how much foolish he was, you can understand. It is same thing like that, if somebody says, "I'll cook without any. I shall scientifically do that a man can give birth to a child." There is no history, and if I say, "Now I shall do it. I shall see that equal rights. As a woman is giving birth to a child, the man will also will give child." These things are foolishness. This is not intelligence. The women are claiming equal rights. So, stop giving birth to a child? Then equal rights. Can it be possible? The man and woman unite, but the woman becomes pregnant, not the man. And if somebody says, now the man will become pregnant, is it not foolishness?

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: All right. You have made some technical advancement. That does not mean you are civilized. Civilized means the Aryans. They know what is the soul. That is civilization.

Paramahaṁsa: But we have seen in the Eastern countries where the people don't eat meat, they are at the same time very primitive. Very uncivilized, like savages.

Amogha: They don't have enough food.

Paramahaṁsa: No technology, no education.

Prabhupāda: Because you have plundered them for the last two thousand years. You rascals, rogues, you have plundered. You have taken all their money, all their jewels, all their gold, and made British Museum. (laughter) It is due to you. (noise in background) What is the dog? Some dog?

Amogha: Oh, that is the siren. You mean the siren?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Some bird.

Amogha: Oh, yeah. In Bhagavad-gītā we claim that it is a fact scientifically that Kṛṣṇa appeared on earth and so many things. But actually isn't it because we believe that the Bhagavad-gītā is true that we think it is scientific? Because we believe it. But someone else would say, "I don't believe it, so for me it's not scientific."

Prabhupāda: Why it is not scientific? If Bhagavad-gītā says, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14), by eating sufficient grains, the living entity become flourished. So, can you deny it?

Amogha: That must be true.

Prabhupāda: Everything is true. If you think it properly, you'll find it is all true. Bhagavad-gītā says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ: (BG 4.13) "By Me, the four divisions of human society are made." The most intelligent class, the brāhmaṇa, who knows the soul, God, etc., by their character, by their behavior. That is brāhmaṇa class. This is the most perfect way of keeping society. Unless there is a class which is very intelligent who know what is God, what is soul, then what is the civilization? Simply motorcar drivers? Is that civilization? Where is the brāhmaṇa? This is not civilization. Simply some artisans and workers, motorcar drivers, mill workers, where is civilized man, who knows God, who knows soul, who knows how to conduct the human society to the perfection? Where is that man? It is not civilization.

Morning Walk -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Madhudviṣa: In the sea.

Prabhupāda: No, not here. In the sky. There is sweet water, very sweet, nice water, drinking water, sea. Sea of ghee, sea of yogurt, sea of milk. Everything is there.

Madhudviṣa: There is a government house. Simply a monument now.

Prabhupāda: The governor lives there?

Madhudviṣa: Yes. They still let them fly the flag, the British flag.

Prabhupāda: British flag?

Madhudviṣa: They still let them fly the British flag on top of the house.

Prabhupāda: They have disconnected the British?

Madhudviṣa: Yes, but there is some traditional respect. (break) When you were speaking with the priest yesterday, he was saying the chanting is material because it comes out of the mouth and it's made like a material sound vibration. Would it be possible for them to run scientific tests on the chanting, the sound of Hare Kṛṣṇa, to make a distinction between that sound and let's say the sound of an automobile's horn? Would that be perceptible?

Prabhupāda: No, the same sound. Sound is the same; when you are impure, this is material. Just like the tongue is the same, but when you are suffering from jaundice, you are tasting sugar as bitter, and when you will be cured, then the same tongue will taste it is sweet. So it depends on the purification of the body. Whole this bhakti-yoga or any yoga, the whole system is purification. Tapo divyaṁ yena śuddhyet sattvam (SB 5.5.1). Our existence is now impure. Therefore we have to accept birth, death, old age, and disease. And when it is purified, without any contamination, then there is no birth, death, old age. In diseased condition you cannot relish. Even if you are given actually rasagullā you will not taste it very nice. If there is no appetite, even it is rasagullā, it is useless. Spiritual life means curing the contamination of material disease. That is spiritual life. And when you are purified, you relish the spiritual taste.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Director: But it would be very difficult for the people who start out with us. Would be possible with the kids that start out with us.

Prabhupāda: No, they will live, just like they are living. They are coming from the same group. But they are now saintly. It is a question of training them. I have no facility. Whatever I have done, by personal endeavor and their cooperation. Neither your government, I mean the Western government, they helped me, neither my government helped me, although we are struggling to make class of men ideal. They appreciate, but they do not give us... Now, just like we have purchased this house by our endeavor, with great difficulty, because we have no income. We write our books, then we sell, we get some income. So somehow or other we expand. But no government is helping us. They are increasing brothels, drinking. At least in India there was no drinking propaganda. Now the government is making that. They are opening wine shop. India, even in the British period, drinking was very, very restricted. Very, very restricted. First of all socially if anyone drinks, he is rejected as gentleman.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Hmm? (break) ...is not for his own interest, for everyone's interest. That is honesty.

Director: What if he's misguided? The world changes and since that book was...

Prabhupāda: Simply because they did not follow. Just like in India, this is the character of the brāhmaṇas that later on gradually the culture was lost since the last one thousand years, because India was subjugated by foreigners. The Mohammedans, they introduced some of their culture. Then the Britishers came. They intr... everyone wants an interest. The Britishers, when British rule came, their Lord Macauley's(?) private report was that "If you want to keep them as Indian Hindu, you will never be able to rule over." So it was British government's policy to condemn everything Indian.

Director: But you said before that they didn't allow drinking, the British.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Director: It's only now that... Didn't you say before?

Prabhupāda: Yes, the British allowed. British, very carefully, because they directly did not put hands on their culture. But underground. And when they are now trained up, now they are openly doing. But the training was by the Britishers. In gentleman's society there must be drinking. This was the introduction.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Director: But in Indian society, they forbid it.

Prabhupāda: Indian society, the did not know how to drink tea even. In our childhood we have seen that Britishers started tea garden. There was no tea plants before Britishers. The Britishers saw the labor is very cheap, and they want to do business, they started. Just like they are doing in Africa. So many gardens, coffee and tea. So they started, and the tea was transferred to be sold in America. They were after business. So the... Now, so much tea, who will consume? The government started a tea sets committee. All the tea garden holders they would pay government. And road to road, street to street, their business was canvassing, preparing tea, very nice, palatable tea, and they advertising if you drink tea, then you will not feel very much hungry, and your malaria will go away and so on, so on. And people began to drink tea. Nice cup. I have seen it. Now they have got a taste. Now gradually now a sweeper also, early in the morning, is waiting in the tea shop to get a cup of tea.

Morning Walk -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Madhudviṣa: So therefore during the Victorian area, era you have many elaborate houses that were built by the Britishers. And he...

Prabhupāda: Victoria died in 1903.

Madhudviṣa: He was said to have brought some Italian plasterers from Italy to do all that elaborate work on the ceilings in the house.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Madhudviṣa: So many people are anxious to come into the house to see the work in the construction of the house. And it has been classified as a building of national importance.

Prabhupāda: Oh. The building is known everywhere.

Madhudviṣa: Oh yes. It is important building. They cannot... It is not allowed to be torn down. It is protected by the...

Prabhupāda: Historical.

Madhudviṣa: Historical building. It is protected by the government.

Śrutakīrti: Yesterday you were telling Bhūrijana they should make the temple a tourist attraction. So with this method, it would be very easy.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Radio Interview -- May 25, 1975, Fiji:

Interviewer: Finally Swamiji, what is the relevance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness in our modern society?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Interviewer: What would be the relevance of Kṛṣṇa's teaching in...

Prabhupāda: Relevance mean you are spirit soul. You are not this body. This thing first you have to understand. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That is India's philosophy, that "I am spirit soul." And if you realize brahmāsmi, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na... (BG 18.54). As soon as you realize that you are not this material body, you are spirit soul, then immediately you become jolly, prasannātmā. Prasannātmā means na śocati na kāṅkṣati. He has no more any hankering for things which he does not possess, no more any lamenting which he has lost. Take, for example, that we have lost our portion of country as Pakistan and fighting since... This was a plan by the British government that divide them in such a way. They will perpetually fight. They will never be happy. This was their plan. That has been successful. But we are lamenting. Both... Pakistan is lamenting or not, I do not know, but Hindustan is lamenting. Gandhi was against this partition. But Jawaharlal Nehru, just to become prime minister, immediately divided.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: ...import lobster from India. I have seen it. Lobster from Cochin.

Bali-mardana: South India.

Prabhupāda: Ah, South India. Lobster and this, what is called? Labhanga...? Cloves. And these cashew. Cashew is produced in India. (break) ...big, big European companies for doing this business in Cochin.

Bali-mardana: They were set up by the British?

Prabhupāda: Yes, and Greeks. (break) Americans don't care for this business. They want machine.

Bali-mardana: They do not care for the clam business. (break) Europeans consider Americans a little bit barbarian, a little bit uncivilized.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Bali-mardana: Because they say that they do not have very much manners, etiquette.

Prabhupāda: They say boys, they are boys.

Ambarīṣa: Unsophisticated.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. They are in the make-up, not yet fully civilized.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Ghanaśyāma (Bhakti-tīrtha): I've just come back from England, myself and another boy who was doing library work there. We went there after India, the festival. And so many very important schools all around the world, that are known all around the world are taking your books. Our last day was one of our most amazing days. We went to the Indian office library, the British government. Because they have colonized India, they have so many books on India. This was the largest library like that in Europe. And the librarian, he looked at our books and he says, "Yes, we should have all of these." So right on the spot he ordered standing orders, one copy of every book. That same day—this was just three days ago, two days ago—we went to the big...

Prabhupāda: That is Aldridge, Aldridge?

Ghanaśyāma: Yes. This was another one. Aldridge, yes. You have seen that letter? Yes.

Prabhupāda: No, I have not seen any letter.

Ghanaśyāma: But you know Aldridge?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I went to see the ambassador.

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1975, San Francisco:

Brahmānanda: For more working.

Prabhupāda: They are creating, yearly, motor car to allure them to work and purchase. That is the economic, whole economic basis.

Dharmādhyakṣa: There's a case in Africa when the British took over Africa, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that they had to charge the natives a tax, let's say, fifty dollars a year, and they would work... To make fifty dollars a year they would... (break) ...transcending dualities.

Prabhupāda: First-class men. Our definition of God is: na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate. "He has nothing to do." This is God. Na tasya karyaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate: "He has nothing to do." He is simply enjoying, dancing with the gopīs, that's all. Why He should go to work? Then what kind of God he is? Na tasya karyaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate.

Devotee: But He also says in Gītā that He works too.

Prabhupāda: Just to teach these rascals to work. Because here, without working, you cannot get your food. Therefore laziness condemned here in this material world. And in the spiritual world the Supreme Person is the most lazy person. (laughter)

Morning Walk -- July 19, 1975, San Francisco:

Brahmānanda: There was an advertisement that a ten cent piece, a dime, that was minted ten years ago it was made with silver. So that ten cent piece today is actually worth twenty-five cents. And the twenty-five cents piece that they make today, because it's made with copper, it's only worth ten cents. So it's better to have a ten cent piece that was made ten years ago than a twenty-five cent piece that was made today.

Paramahaṁsa: In the British historical museum in London, I have seen there's a plate about this large, and half of it is pure gold, and the other half is lead. And they found this. They can't explain. It's just a straight line where they separate, and they can't explain how it was produced. So they're experimenting now to try to change lead because there's only, what is it, one proton or electron in the atom? Different. There's only like one proton difference between lead and gold. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the sky there are many big, big planets where the millions of miles made of gold. Just like desert, there is gold desert.

Morning Walk -- August 4, 1975, Detroit:

Śrī Govinda: Around the island. Right around the island.

Prabhupāda: Very fast going, but where he will go? (break) ...tory?

Brahmānanda: Admiral Perry.

Satsvarūpa: He defeated the British in 1812.

Brahmānanda: Oh, he's an American.

Prabhupāda: Admiral Perry.

Brahmānanda: Admiral Perry. He defeated the British in the War of 1812.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...church tower?

Brahmānanda: None of our men have ever been here, I don't think.

Prabhupāda: We shall go that way? (break) ...piece of grass coming out. Another. (break) So where is Canada?

Mādhavānanda: Right there.

Prabhupāda: That side. (end)

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1975, Paris:

Prabhupāda: What is the... Time now?

Harikeśa: 6:17.

Prabhupāda: Even if you take so-called responsibility, you will not be allowed to carry it out. The example I was giving: Napoleon, Hitler, and Gandhi. They took responsibility, but they were driven away. What can I do? So what is the meaning of your responsibility? You will not be allowed to execute your responsibility. What remedy you have done that you will not be allowed, kicked out? Then where is your responsibility? Even if you are very nice gentleman—you have taken responsibility—but nature will not allow you to execute the responsibility. What is your answer to that? Big, big Napoleon, big, big Hitler, big, big Gandhi came and gone. Where is the responsibility executed? The Napoleon was given horse urine. You know? By the Britishers.

Brahmānanda: To drink.

Prabhupāda: Yes. At the last stage when he was asking for water he was given horse urine. He died like that. Hitler committed suicide. Gandhi was killed. So where is their responsibility? They falsely thinking, "Without me, everything will be lost." But they are kicked out; everything is going on.

Morning Walk -- August 24, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Hm. (break) Who is he?

Brahmānanda: He's some Italian astronomer. He invented the telescope.

Prabhupāda: Invented telescope?

Brahmānanda: So they could speculate about the stars and planets. (break)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: ...all the British names out and replaced them with Italian and Indian and other names.

Tejas: Many Muslim names they have replaced also. Because they are supposed to be historical. (break)

Prabhupāda: This is the road. This is the bus. (break)

Tejas: Many of the members are reading the books now, Śrīla Prabhupāda. One man, he is coming tonight. He has read your Bhagavad-gītā six times now. He is very enthusiastic. Now he is thinking that he has wasted his whole life. That's the way he talks.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If he comes to that conclusion, then he becomes perfect.

Tejas: He told me, "I have read so many Bhagavad-gītās previously, but never was the commentation clear. I could not understand the meaning."

Prabhupāda: Yes. They simply jugglery of words.

Morning Walk -- August 28, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...parikrama?

Dhanañjaya: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. That was to the old Yamunā trail.

Prabhupāda: We can go?

Dhanañjaya: Yes.

British devotee (1): The Yamunā's only five minutes walk from Raman Reti now, Prabhupāda. It's very nice for swimming. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...able to walk with us, why you have brought him? It will be strain for him.

Brahmānanda: The other day he came on the walk, the first day. (break)

Dhanañjaya: The sands of Raman Reti where Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma would enjoy Their pastimes.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Therefore we have established Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma temple.

Dhanañjaya: The sands are very fine and soft here.

Prabhupāda: Sands are always soft. (break) ...old house. (break)

Dhanañjaya: ...been all jungle like this at one time.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Gardens, not jungle.

Morning Walk -- September 29, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: Take as many bricks as you like. And we have got one address. You have taken, Agra, they will supply this lime. (break) (Hindi) ...rich men. Still, they are adulterating cement. (Hindi) (break) I heard it from very reliable source, my teacher. He was second teacher in my school, graduate, very good gentleman. He said that Edward VIII, er, VII, he was stealing jewels. You see?

Indian man (3): A very bad habit.

Prabhupāda: Emperor of British Empire, and he was a thief. Just see.

Brahmānanda: You've said that a fly sitting on a throne is still a fly.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...one gentleman, young man, he was very rich man's son. He would come in the evening in the Howrah station nicely dressed and would approach any gentleman, "Sir, I am very sorry. I have lost my purse. Can you give me? Otherwise I cannot return." So he will collect five, ten rupees and go to a restaurant and eat and go home. (break) It is the second nature. Now the door is open? We can go?

Kartikeya: Yes. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...enter. Not the cows.

Indian man (4): Physical world, this earth is there. Are there any other earthly planets of this type where human beings or other beings are staying other than spiritual beings?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Morning Walk -- September 29, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has imposed death, that "You may make your plan as free man, but you'll not be allowed to stay. I'll kick you out." These poor men, they did not think of it, that "I am making so nice plan, but at any moment I'll be kicked out. So where is my freedom?" Dull brain does not think of it. A prisoner, if he thinks that he is free to act, is it not foolishness? A prisoner, in prison, and if he thinks that he is free to act, is it not foolishness? So that they do not think. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has grouped them: mūḍha, these rascals, mūḍha. They conduct freedom movement. Just like in our country also, before this British Empire or this Mohammedan Empire there was no knowledge about this freedom. Indian people never thought of freedom. They know that "We are not free. Where is the question of freedom?" These things have come from the foreign countries, freedom movement. What is freedom? Where are you free? You are completely under the laws of nature. Where is your freedom? So they were thinking of greater freedom, to get out of the clutches of the laws of nature. That is real freedom. What is this freedom? From frying pan to the fire? (chuckles) Now we have freedom means from frying pan to the fire. Formerly there was one viceroy. Now in each state three dozen viceroys, and you have to maintain that. So many legislators, so many secretaries, so many ministers. All, they are sucking our poor blood. That's all. Hare Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you approach them for some grievances, "All right, give me application," and, after six months, "No." So we are maintaining for this purpose? Yes. "I say no." That's all. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...ing of freedom, but we have no freedom even to stay in this body.

Morning Walk -- September 29, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Indian man (6): Is it the sin of some of the...?

Prabhupāda: No, that we shall consider. First of all we have to see that I learn that my position is na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So why I am put into this body which is hanyamāna? (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Yes. (Hindi) They want to remain in darkness, and any leader who will keep him in the darkness in flowery language, he will be welcomed: "Oh, he is very good leader." "And this man is very conservative: 'Don't do this, don't do this, don't do this.' " So here is freedom. "Whatever you like, you do"—here is freedom. If this rascal does not do what you do and you go to hell, that is their business. Kṛṣṇa therefore says, "You rascal, where is your freedom?" Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). First of all you see. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. So where is your freedom? First of all get out of these things; then question of freedom. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam. This is your knowledge, that "Where is my freedom? If I am under the rules and regulation of janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi, then where is my freedom?" (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Simply rubber-stamped freedom will help me? Suppose I was dependent on British rule, and now I have become free. So will this help me to get freedom from janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi? Then where is my freedom? What are major questions, they have set aside. "Don't discuss all these things, and bother your head with trifle things." And our philosophy is that "Don't bother with these trifle things. Just seriously think of the major problems." This is our philosophy. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Teṣām ahaṁ samuddhartā mṛtyu-saṁsāra-sāgarāt (BG 12.7). Samuddahartā, just to deliver them from this ocean of mṛtyu-saṁsāra. That is not care. Real freedom is given by him—that you don't care. (break) ...will be given by Kṛṣṇa. This is no freedom. Here the so-called freedom-giver, he has no freedom. And what he will give, freedom? Gandhiji preached so much about nonviolence, and nonviolence said, "All right, you have no freedom from nonviolence. You die." (Hindi) (break) ...is there, there is no question of freedom. (end)

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Not advanced consciousness, but he is conscious. He feels. He feels.

Harikeśa: It shocked a lot of people when they made the test of bringing a scissor to a plant, and they put some electrodes on it and they found that the plant was reacting with fear.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That machine has been discovered by Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose. He discovered this wireless telegram, radio. But Marconi took from him, and British government helped him.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The British again.

Prabhupāda: Britishers were advertising outside India that "Indians are uncivilized. Therefore we are making them civilized. Therefore we should stay there. Don't object." Because United Nations, they were asking, "Why you are occupying India?" So they used to forward this argument, that "These people are uncivilized. We are making them civilized." (laughter) Now, how there should be Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose? Therefore they used to suppress always. Everything Indian wanted to do, they would suppress: big businesses, this mining... They would suppress. This Morarji, Sumati Morarji, her father-in-law started that... He had to face so many impediments from the Britishers to start the shipping company. Formerly there was no shipping company, Indian. Now, before that, there was shipping, not shipping company, but navigation was there from India to Rome, Greece, Turkey, there was regular business of spices and fine cloth. Later on, this large-scale shipping industry, that was done by the Europeans. So when Indian wanted to start, they would supress. The Tata iron industry, he had to face so many difficulties. Formerly, even if you wanted to bring some iron frame, it would come from Sheffield.

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Greedy. Very greedy.

Brahmānanda: At one time all of Africa was controlled by the European nations. Completely.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Mainly these French and...

Brahmānanda: French, British, Germans, Portuguese, Dutch, Spanish.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In South Africa, the British also tried to take over South Africa. There was a war called the Boer War.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So during World War I and World War II many of the South Africans, they actually sided with the Germans because they were against the English so much.

Prabhupāda: African means black Africans. No?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No. South Africans, they were Europeans. The British started the first concentration camp. They took these "Afrikaners" as they call them, Europeans. They put them on an island called St. Helena. That was actually the first concentration camp, by the British.

Prabhupāda: This is going on. Still, even the opposite party, they are not disgusted—"This material life is not very peaceful." They are not disgusted.

Morning Walk -- October 6, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Did they come mostly for missionary work? Was that their purpose?

Prabhupāda: Our professors, they came from missionary, but there were other officers in government service, I.C.S., Indian Civil Service. They were also. In the province where they were employed he must learn the provincial language. Their administration was excellent, undoubtedly, British administration. Nobody in the world, so far administration... But their crooked policy ruined them; otherwise good administrator, good politician, good diplomat.

Harikeśa: They made those nice buildings in Delhi, too.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes, and everything good. Simply heart was not very good.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Heart.

Prabhupāda: "Only for Englishmen," "Only for Englishmen." Still that policy is going on here. That is not good. When one takes shelter of you, you must give him proper protection. That liberality is not there.

Morning Walk -- October 6, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: There are so many other things.

Harikeśa: They cut the thumbs of the weavers?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They were making finer cloth by hand than the British were making by machines. So in order to discourage, they would cut off the thumb so they couldn't weave.

Prabhupāda: So many things. And to make a show, the Lord Hasting was impeached in the Parliament. Here the black men, they are Africans.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. In this country there's nineteen million Africans and about over five million Europeans, about one million Indian people, and about one million colored people.

Prabhupāda: So these women, what they are carrying on the head?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I don't know. What do they carry, Gokulendra prabhu?

Gokulendra: They carry all sorts of things, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Sometimes they carry their supplies that they...

Prabhupāda: They are local women or...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. But they don't allow the Africans to live in the cities. They have to travel long distances, unless they are servants at some house. For the Africans to live in the cities, they have passes. They have to have a pass.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. Black men. The Indians, they cannot? They can?

Morning Walk -- October 6, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: So post... (break) ...service is not good?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, it is fairly good. But the Africans, they are so many they have to queue up. I don't think, in America, that the American negroes would be able to queue up and wait as patiently as these people. I think they have a little...

Prabhupāda: They have been trained up.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: British influence. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...appears it is very clean city.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This area is downtown, it's not so clean. Downtown is not so clean. This area is.

Prabhupāda: This is residential or industrial?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Over here is all residential, European apartment houses. And along the beach there is all hotels. This is a very big resort area in South Africa. There's a... Whole south coast, going down for about eighty miles, is all resorts. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...English-made city?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Durban is English city. Capetown has Dutch influence.

Prabhupāda: It resembles Melbourne. Melbourne. Australian Melbourne, this quarter resembles. (break) ...from Indian Ocean?

Morning Walk -- October 6, 1975, Durban:

Devotee: It's stuck in the sand. We'll have to push to make the wheels straight.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So let Prabhupāda come back in the truck. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...have gone too much in the sand. It is dangerous. (break) ...panded so much, these Britishers, a few million people. This is demonic. Idam adya mayā labdham imaṁ prāpsye manoratham: "I have got now so much. Now let me increase more." Never satisfied. Idam adya mayā labdham imaṁ prāpsye mano: "I want to be the richest man, God." That was the British policy-ambition. Material ambition is like that. It increases more and more. (break) ...British buildings or American?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: South African.

Prabhupāda: South African.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: A lot of investment comes from both America and England, industries.

Prabhupāda: So England has got money to invest still?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They do much investment here in South Africa. (break) Śrīla Prabhupāda, there's a sidewalk here. Would you prefer walking on the sidewalk or the sands?

Prabhupāda: Yes, sidewalk is better.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. Therefore we call them rascals. Therefore we have given this position, rascal, that's all. Talk too much, do nothing—that is rascal. (bugles sound in background) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa... Hm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This old fort? This is actually called "Old Fort" isn't it? This part is built around a commemoration to a very old military fort. British.

Prabhupāda: Where is that fort?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's supposed to be some kind of museum over here. I don't think the fort is still standing.

Prabhupāda: And where are the fort makers? (laughter) Where they have gone?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They were shot out of the cannon.

Prabhupāda: So what is the meaning of this fort? If the fort makers are themselves finished, then what is the use of making fort?

Devotee (2): "Why should we live anymore? We're not getting any pleasure out of life. There's no future. Why should..." People are happy to die these days, because there is no pleasure.

Prabhupāda: There is no... Who said there is no pleasure?

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: Then? Why does he say "extinct"? These cheaters, they cheat themselves and bluff others and mislead the people. This is their position. We want at least that people may not be bluffed by these rascals and waste their time. That we want, that much. They may say that "You are not scientist." Yes, I am not scientist, but I can request you that don't be bluffed by this nonsense. That much I can say. I can prove that he is a nonsense. Why you are wasting time after them? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)...their folly, European men. Where the American men will go? (laughter) Just see. (break) ...from India they made Indian center, and they conquered both sides—Far East, Middle East, Africa—with Indian soldiers. They organized Indian soldiers and Sikhs and Gurkhas, and they employed them for extending their empire. British soldier does not mean... Maybe two, one or two British commanders, but real soldiers were Indians.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Whatever the leaders do, then the other people will follow.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...India also there is such tendency towards sense gratification?

Prabhupāda: Everywhere. India... Why do you speak India or America? That is the tendency everywhere.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Because when the British came, the Indians took up so many of the habits of the British.

Prabhupāda: No, no, before that also. But that habit was controlled by Indian culture.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I see.

Prabhupāda: That is the specific position of Vedic culture. The habit, that tendency is there, but by Indian Vedic culture these base tendencies are checked and they are made, I mean to say, given opportunity to advance. That is brahminical culture. The brāhmaṇas voluntarily rejected all these. That is ideal, that "Here is an idea!" But here at the present moment there is no such idea! Everyone is after material enjoyment. There is no ideal that "Here is a person who doesn't care for anything. Still he is so exalted." That is wanted. That ideal is not now. Therefore I am trying to create such ideal men.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So then the point is that they criticize that how we can preach such a civilization to the Western countries if even it's not working in India today. Although theoretically it's perfect, practically it's not working.

Prabhupāda: No. Practically, because you have preached your culture in India; therefore they have lost their own culture. The Western, the Britishers were for two hundred years and they preached. Their policy was to kill the Indian culture. Because that report of Lord McCauley, after studying Indian situation, the report was to the Parliament that "If you keep India as Indian, then you will not be able to rule over them," so therefore there was regular policy to kill Indian civilization. And because they were on the governing power, they could do it. Therefore India lost its own culture and victimized by the Western culture. This is the position. Just they are learning how to eat meat, how to drink wine, how to dress them with coat and pant, how to go to the hotel, illicit sex—these things are…

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Imported.

Prabhupāda: In India it was unknown. They did not know. In our childhood we have seen that they did not know how to drink tea even.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Free.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And advertise, "If you drink tea, then you will not feel very much hungry. Your health will be improved," and so on, so on. In this way they distribute pamphlet and giving free. Just like we distribute prasādam, they used to distribute very tasteful tea, and people liked it: "Oh, it is very nice." Then they began to drink. Vigorous propaganda. And culturally, in our school days they wrote… One Mr. N. Ghosh, he, bribed by the Britishers, he wrote one book, England's Work in India. So all the, just like Sati rites…

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sati rite.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That "Later on, after the death of husband in some places the wife was forced to go to the fire, so the Britishers stopped it. And they introduced railway for going to the pilgrims and so many, and they constructed bridges to make easy to go from one country to another." And people took it very seriously, that British government is very nice. And they were publishing in outside country that "India is uncivilized. We are making them civilized. And as soon as they are civilized, then we hand over the charge to them. That is our noble mission." And they were exploiting. All raw materials was being taken away and the necessities of India, especially cloth, was being supplied. And the local weavers, their hands cut off. So many thing they, tainting… And everything bad. Just like Jawaharlal Nehru. He became a first-class victim.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: Victim of European propaganda. He used to take "Anything Indian, bad. Anything Indian, bad." Not only he. Later on, all the so-called educated persons, they took it for granted that "Whatever is done in London, that is first-class, and whatever is Indian original, that is all bad." And they controlled the native princes. So many things. It is a big history, how they killed India's original culture. And then Hindu-Muslim riots, friction, fighting between Hindus and Muslims and dividing them.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You said that the British instigated the Muslims.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How did they do that?

Prabhupāda: Oh, you… Nowadays you pay somebody, and he will do anything. So they appointed this Jhinna. He found that he is a very, intelligent lawyer. He was in the Congress. So there was dissension. There must be. So once this Jhinna was to be the president of the Congress, and the Patel, he frustrated. So Jhinna became angry, and at this moment the Britishers took it. He was a very intelligent barrister. So he instigated that, "You form a party, Muslim league. And whatever money is required for propaganda, we shall pay." So regular subscription was raised from all big, big British companies, mercantile, to pay him: "Whatever money, you organize the Muslims against the Hindus." And he did it.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No. Carlisle Street is the Arya-samāj temple. (laughs) So…

Prabhupāda: "So if you make propaganda and pay money to go against the Hindus and incite them"—gradually it developed. And the money was being paid by the Britishers. And he saw that money is coming. He had no feeling, national or… He wanted money, that's all. For money you can purchase anything nowadays.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why did the British build all so many railroads?

Prabhupāda: For drawing raw materials from villages and bring it to the Calcutta, Bombay port and export to their country because their country does not produce anything. They’re starving. Still England, London, is maintained by importing goods from Africa, India, here, there. They have no food there. They can grow some potato, maybe… Potato only, That was the reason of expanding their empire. They had no food at home, England. They were manufacturing cotton cloth. That cotton was not grown in their country. It was brought from Egypt. They manipulated things in such a way. In America also they wanted to do that, but Americans, just understanding, separated, George Washington. In America I have heard that each family was to maintain a British soldier. You know that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, I didn’t know that.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: That is propaganda.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is propaganda.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) … in the last fifty years or so that especially that the Indian culture has been squashed and perverted by the British.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is that because of mass communication, Prabhupada? Is that because of mass communication?

Prabhupāda: Mass communication or no…

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Radio, and things like this.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if you want to make mass communication, you can do anything. (break) Due to industrialization, all intelligent men, they came in the city. In the village it was deserted. So there was no improvement in the village, and people preferred to come to the city, means industry, business. So India's basic principle was village life. Now that is lost. The intelligent class men, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, they left villages for earning more money in the cities, and only the śūdras, less intelligent class of men, less than śūdras, they remained. So what they will do? So village became deserted. Still you’ll go and see in Indian villages, especially in Bengal, so many big, big palatial buildings, they are lying vacant.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How were the leaders, though, of India so weak when the British first occupied that they allowed this all to take place?

Prabhupāda: There was no Indian leader. That was occupied by the Mohammedans. They were deteriorating. Yes. Besides that, Indian mass of people, they were never trained to become nationalist. They thought, “Let anyone become king. It doesn’t matter. We… Let us live peacefully, and whatever due tax we shall pay. That's all.” When the Mohammedans came the people did not think that these are foreigners. "It does not matter, Mohammedan, Hindu." But they did not think so far that gradually it will deteriorate. Even Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he has favored the British government because they did not interfere with the religious affair.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (entering car) Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Over the Muslims.

Prabhupāda: No, Britishers. The Muslims interfered. They wanted to propagate Islamism. Not all, some of them. But Britishers, although they were spreading Christianism, still, outwardly they were neutral about religious affairs. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura preferred that "Britishers are good. They do not interfere with our religious affair." So the idea is that India—you may say primitive or whatever you want—they wanted to make progress of the soul. They did not care who is ruling. So "Whatever tax is due we shall pay. Let us do our own business." That was India's attitude. They never thought in terms of nationalism. That was never educated. They were never educated.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But this propaganda is going on even here, that anything which is Indian is inferior, and anything which is European is good.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the propaganda always. That is going on. That I already explained, that this was the propaganda of the Britishers, "Anything Indian is bad." You see, they wanted to stop our Ratha-yātrā in London as soon as they saw that it is becoming popular. Even in India the government doesn’t want that Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement should go ahead. It is the demonic principle—Kṛṣṇa should be cut down. That is the way of demonic civilization. Stop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now we are preaching, "No illicit sex, no intoxication, no meat-eating." Do you think people like it?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: Everyone is against this movement. So who is coming to save us? Nobody is coming. Kṛṣṇa is saving. Otherwise it would have been stopped long, long ago. I was thinking that “As soon as I shall propose all these things, immediately these American people will ask me to go back home. Instead of go back to Godhead, "You go back to India." (laughter) So it is Kṛṣṇa's kindness that you, a few boys and girls, have accepted this principle. Otherwise who likes this? Nobody likes. Nobody likes. Lord Zetland flatly said, "Oh, it is impossible." This is the life and soul of the modem civilization. just see the advertisement-sex. You see, illicit sex. Who would like our movement? Nobody likes. What is this picture means? Sex, that's all. So many advertise…, wine advertisement, meat-eating, gambling—everything. The modern life is going on the basis of these four principles of sinful life, and we want to stop it. Nobody likes it. Still, we are selling so many books and people are hearing us… (break) (out of car) Why the scientist does not make chemical composition egg?

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Devotee (2): Could he spend that money?

Prahupada: Yes. I print ten thousand dollars' worth currency note, and I give you, and I take you, actual goods from you, anywhere.

Harikeśa: The government is doing that all the time. They take contracts from people.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is going on. Therefore price is increasing daily. Formerly British government, in the beginning, to prove their honesty, as soon as you go to the currency for changing, they will offer you, "You want coins or paper currency?" So if you think that paper currency will be convenient, you can take. Otherwise, if you want coins, they will pay you.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Gold coins.

Prabhupāda: Yes, gold, silver, whatever you want. That was the... Now this is stopped. You can not ask now gold coins and silver coins. Whatever government will give you, you have to accept. Where is honesty?

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, in South Africa they have a coin called the Krugerrand. And one rand is worth one hundred cents, one rand of paper money. But one rand gold is worth about seventy-eight rand.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Room Conversation with Reporter of The Star -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Reporter: Your Grace, what stops so many people from becoming Kṛṣṇa devotees?

Prabhupāda: Join this, our center. You come here; you'll become Kṛṣṇa devotee. Just like these boys. They are not imported from India. They are European, American, and South African. You are South African?

Reporter: British.

Prabhupāda: British. And who is South African?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They're South Africans.

Prabhupāda: So we welcome everyone, African, South African, North African.

Reporter: What stops so many millions of people from doing it?

Prabhupāda: Well, knowledge means it is meant for few men. If you want men without any university degree, you will get many thousands. But as soon as say, "We want graduate," it will be minimized. Or as soon as you say "postgraduate," it will be still minimized. So as soon as there is question of knowledge, the number of people will be diminished. So we cannot expect mass of people. But if there are good persons, exemplified person, vivid example, that will help the whole society—"There is ideal class. They know everything."

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: ...poor people have to stand in queue. It is a mostly...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) They use this argument against us, that the Vedic culture was most solidly founded in India.

Prabhupāda: But you have, I mean to say, curbed down. This rascal civilization, they could not take the Western civilization, and they lost their own civilization. This is India's bad luck. The Britishers did not teach them how to take up the Western culture, but they killed the Eastern culture. You understand?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You have no position. You cannot take the Western culture properly, and you have lost your own culture. This is India's bad luck. They never taught Indians how to become actually Westernized. No. They were not giving them sufficient education. They were very much against higher education in the beginning. They wanted some clerks to conduct their activities, mercantile and government, some third-class, fourth-class men. Educated means ABCD, that's all. "They may know ABCD and take fifty, sixty rupees salary, and go home outside the town and come in daily passenger train, and work hard here and simply get your money so that you can maintain yourself." Nothing more. No education, no money, no industry. They were not taught properly. Here I see the factories, and the arrangement is so nice. But Indian factories, go—it is hell. Hell, simply hell. The Britishers exploited the Indians, and the capitalist class of India, they have learned how to exploit only.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Cyavana: Fighter jets.

Brahmānanda: Fighter jets, four of them only. And during the national celebration they fly in procession. So one of them fell down, killing the pilots.

Prahupada: Just see.

Brahmānanda: These are very old jets that were supplied by the British. (Prabhupāda laughs) They're so proud of their four airplanes. Now they only have three.

Prabhupāda: Could not replace the other one.

Brahmānanda: I don't know if they've replaced it or not.

Cyavana: That's the British scheme.

Brahmānanda: They give them these things to "civilize" them.

Prabhupāda: (chanting japa—break) Nice. (break) You have meeting in this park?

Brahmānanda: Yes. Just on the other side of the road, the city park.

Cyavana: We used to come here on Sunday with that truck and have meetings in the afternoon.

Brahmānanda: Prabhupāda came here.

Cyavana: Yes. There was one meeting one Sunday.

Prabhupāda: (break)...the name of this park?

Cyavana: It means freedom. When they were able to obtain their freedom from the British rule they made this park and they called it Uhuru Park.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Cyavana: This park? The British. They designed all these parks and roads.

Brahmānanda: I know that other park-yesterday or the other day we went—that was done by the British. They've taken plants from all over East Africa.

Prabhupāda: All these buildings are constructed by the Britishers.

Cyavana: Some Indian organizations, firms, come also. Big construction companies from India, they are combined.

Brahmānanda: Usually, in all of the business concerns here, the top man is British, managing their activity.

Prabhupāda: So when they kill such brutally in the farm, the Britisher did not take any step?

Brahmānanda: Not very effective steps. They declared a state of emergency, and they brought soldiers here, and they had huge arrests. They had camps just outside of Nairobi, and they were arresting tens of thousands, huge camps. But the tactics that they would use, the Africans, the British soldiers couldn't...

Prabhupāda: They brought British soldiers or Indian soldiers?

Brahmānanda: I'm not sure.

Prabhupāda: British soldiers, so long, how they'll come? They were using Indian soldiers.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: How Indian people helped them?

Brahmānanda: They would give their... These groups of guerillas, the Indians would supply them and use their facilities and their farm houses. And then also, legally, the Indians were able to give, from their experience in India. They were able to make some government, some kind of a freedom government system. They agitated to get representation in the Parliament, and they became... When independence came there were many Indians as M.P.'s here. And even when Kenyatta was put on trial by the British, his chief lawyer was a Britisher, but the second lawyer was an Indian. Also the union movement was... One Indian, he helped organize the...

Indian: I was talking with a judge. He is a Sikh gentleman here. So he told me that "In the freedom we all helped, and I was not a judge at that time. I was ordinary advocate. So I play a nice role to get them freedom, so they appointed me a judge after that." Now he is judge since last fifteen years.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Cyavana: Like a band of pirates. They always fight amongst themselves and kill each other.

Prabhupāda: That is natural. When they plunder, they are united, and when they share, there will be fight. This is psychology. When plundering others' property they will unite and take the whole thing, and then, when they come for sharing, there will be fight. This is the psychology everywhere. Therefore there are so many parties. Just like in India the... Of course, Congress Party was the predominant to fight with the Britishers. And as soon as they got independence, so many hundred thousand parties grew up: the Congress Party, the RSS party, the Hindu-mazara(?) party, the Muslim League party, this party, this party. And then they began to fight. This is the way. Senayor eva sa ucyate. All these thieves and rascal, rogues... God's property, why you should fight amongst themselves? Property belongs to somebody else. Insanity. Just like this is government park. Anyone can come in. Everyone can equally enjoy. So why not make the whole world as Kṛṣṇa's park? What is the difficulty? Actually it is the fact. Why do you claim? Now we have come. If you say, "No, this portion belongs to us," and another, "This portion belongs to us," then there will be fight. And if we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, every one of us, that if they see Kṛṣṇa's property, so let us enjoy. What is the cause of fighting? The hotels are the centers for all kinds of sinful activity. Huh? Illicit sex, drinking, gambling and meat-eating. No discrimination.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: I think the greatest damage done to this civilization of Aryans of India was by MacCauley, who introduced the British system of education.

Prabhupāda: But why you accepted that? (laughter) Why you accepted? Then why don't you accept? You should have refused.

Dr. Patel: Well, we were not there to refuse. We came afterwards. Our forefathers gave us...

Prabhupāda: No, you can... Just like they are reforming. Their forefathers were drunkards, woman-hunters, (laughter) and they are reformed, the great-grandchildren. And we old men, we cannot do that.

Dr. Patel: I talk of MacCauley...

Prabhupāda: MacCauley may mislead you. Why you should believe?

Dr. Patel: He misled our forefathers.

Prabhupāda: No, why you should be misled?

Dr. Patel: Now we are going to lead them. Are you not leading them?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Your forefathers might have been misled, but why you will commit the same mistake again?

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...tri-dhātuke sva-dhiḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma īḍya-dhīḥ, yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij janeṣu abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). South Africa... (Hindi) ...successful.

Dr. Patel: South Africa, majority of them are rooting Holland. Not many other.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, there are all kinds of Europeans.

Dr. Patel: No, but majority of them are Hollanders. That is why this, they were against the Britishers.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. So in South Africa we had very successful programs.

Dr. Patel: You are going to have a temple there?

Prabhupāda: Yes, we have already there.

Dr. Patel: Did you go to East Africa also?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Nairobi.

Dr. Patel: Nkrumah(?) wants money from anybody who goes and sees him as if he's a god.

Prabhupāda: But where we have got money?

Dr. Patel: That is what I say. And he has all his money in Switzerland, Swiss banks. This is how they ruling these poor people.

Morning Walk -- November 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...poverty.

Dr. Patel: They have nothing to eat all the time. Ninety percent of the peasantry absolutely, completely wiped out during the Britishers' time. They never looked after them.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Poverty is the cause of nonretirement?

Dr. Patel: They have nothing to eat. They hardly get, I mean, two meals. Not square but even triangle. (laughs) They don't get any food in the mofices(?).

Prabhupāda: What is the question of mofices?(?) I am talking of...

Dr. Patel: India is made up of all villages and mofices(?). Cities are few.

Prabhupāda: So that is the cause of nonretirement.

Dr. Patel: I mean to my mind. It may be another cause also. I don't know. What do you think? Lack of proper education?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Big, big men like Jawaharlal Nehru, Gandhi, they never retired.

Morning Walk -- November 26, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: ...the talk amongst the high-court judges. So when there was fierce fighting was going on between the Germans and the Allies, so during their relaxed hours, the judges were sitting. So one, the Chief Justice of Calcutta, he asked one Justice Mukherjee. So Justice Mukherjee was very... He was vice-chancellor. So he asked him, "Mr. Mukherjee, now the Germans are coming. What you will do when they come?" He said, "Yes, as soon as they come, we shall: 'Come on sir, come on sir, come on sir.' We shall receive them." "Why?" "Now, you have taught us like that. You British people, you have taught us. (laughter) Our business is to receive. Anyone comes, we shall receive him. That's all."

Devotee (4): And they will do the same with the Russians.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Harikeśa: It seems like they are preparing now by eating lots of meat and drinking a lot of alcohol.

Prabhupāda: They cannot prepare us. That is the difference. Even they are preparing, but they cannot prepare us. That is the difference between fools and man with knowledge. (break) ...was existing? No. New temple.

Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: What economical backwards?

Devotee (3): They say India is very poor country.

Prabhupāda: No. Indians economical backwards because they have given up their own culture. When India was actually standing on the old culture, they were never defeated. Even the Mohammedans, they ruled over India for eight hundred years, but they could not defeat the Indian culture. But the British government are clever. They spoiled the Indian culture. Therefore they are poverty-stricken. Otherwise if India would have continued in his own culture... The Gandhi started the boycott movement. So Indian culture automatically boycotted anything foreign. We know in our childhood nothing foreign-made could be used in some ceremony. Even this cloth, it must be country-made, that, what is called?

Haṁsadūta: Khadi.

Prabhupāda: Khadi, yes. No mill-made cloth can be used. That was Indian culture. They would not touch even foreign medicine. Dr. Bose, Kartick Chandra Bose, he told me that "You do not know how much we had to flatter to accept this British medicine." They would not touch quinine, anything foreign-made. This was Indian culture.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Not "I have done this."

Prabhupāda: No, no. I don't say. This is the philosophy. Amānitvam adambhitvam. Where is that thing? That is taught from the brahmacārī. Brahmacārī, a small boy, he is taught that you become amānitvam adambhitvam, and he accepts it. Because he is small, the brahmacārī, he may becoming from a king's family, but if he's ordered, "My dear boy, take my shoes and brush it," he'll do it, because he's innocent boy. He learns. Therefore brahmacār gurukule vasan dānta. The mode of life should be trained from the brahmacārī.

Dr. Patel: This British public school, sir, they are doing that. The school of Harrow and the Eaton. The first-standard boys have to brush the shoes of the fifth-standard boys, and the fifth to the sixth, and the sixth to the seventh, and first to the second...

Prabhupāda: No, why not to the...

Dr. Patel: And the first boy, his shoes goes to the teacher.

Prabhupāda: Some idea...

Dr. Patel: That is great idea.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yogi means satyānanda...

Dr. Patel: (Hindi about temporary pleasure) They go down.

Man: (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: The whole, I mean, Japan was practically done, I mean, done to practical death by this opium smoking.

Prabhupāda: In China also. The Britishers, they were taking opium from India and selling there and making money.

Dr. Patel: And now Chinese leaders were rejoicing that American boys smoking LSD. (Hindi conversation)

Prabhupāda: Saurabha, you have brought these logs from Vṛndāvana?

Saurabha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So why they are lying idle?

Saurabha: They are not ours, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, why passport? Even in our country, Mahātmā Gandhi was also infected: "Quit India." "Quit India."

Dr. Patel: No, he did not mean quit India. He meant "You quit your matter of ruling." I mean actually...

Prabhupāda: It was the exact word, "Quit India."

Dr. Patel: You know it more than me, sir, that in 1929 he told Britishers that "You rule India from the basis of they are ruling Canada." So he offered to give them ultimatum. Britishers did know real stuff of India, otherwise they would have acted better.

Prabhupāda: That's not.... As soon as you think "He is my enemy and he is my friend," then there is no education. That's all. This is standard of education. Ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu. That is education. Sama darśinaḥ. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini śuni caiva (BG 5.18). That is education. That is.... Kṛṣṇa says, nanu śocanti paṇḍitāḥ. Nanu śocanti paṇḍitāḥ. "Ah, you are rascal." It is not the business of the paṇḍita to think like that. He never thought that the Kauravas were the enemy. No. That is not the fact. It is duty to fight the just cause. That was His instruction.

Morning Walk -- December 19, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No.... They eat meat, they don't get...

Dr. Patel: They eat even stool. Just like hogs.

Prabhupāda: That also a human being does. You know in concentration camp in second war they had to eat their stool.

Dr. Patel: But the British army had a regulation that they could drink urine but not stool. They cannot eat.

Prabhupāda: You may make regulation, but necessity has no regulation.

Dr. Patel: I.... because I happen to be.... I, I was holding the honorary position of a colonel in the army...

Prabhupāda: Just see, "I am making law: you can drink urine." Just see what is the position. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: In difficulty if there is no water, you can drink your own urine, but you cannot eat your stool. It is very difficult.

Prabhupāda: If I drink urine, still I will have to be punished. By the law. I'm drinking urine, and because I have violated law, I will have to be punished. This is God.