Expressions researched:
"bringing"
Allen Ginsberg: The hand wasn't bringing food to the mouth.
Prabhupāda: Then they come to their senses. "Oh, we have to feed this rascal belly. Otherwise we become weak." Similarly... What is this position? These hands and legs are parts anbd parcels of the whole. Similarly, the whole Brahman, Absolute, we are all parts and parcels. So we shall cooperate in satisfying Him. Then automatically we become satisfied. If we noncooperate, then we suffer.
Prabhupāda: But if he remains here, you say, "It must remain," he says, "It must be burned," and then there will be kalaha, quarrel. You see? Better you let him travel, and when he comes, if he gives his suggestion that "This tree should be burned," and now you decide whether it should be burned or should remain. And if he works outside, then we can very quickly develop because we get outside sympathy for developing this center. I think that should be the way. What it is bringing?
Śyāma: Paper.
Prabhupāda: Some paper. (laughs) So inside-outside work must be done. Bahyābhyantaram śuciḥ. You know that verse?
So we have to develop this center from outside work and inside work. Outside work means to draw sympathy of the people, to draw money for development. This is also required. We have got a very big scheme. It is not possible that by one man's earning we can do that. It is not possible.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He used to eat a lot of food?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not always. But people used to present some foodstuffs. Especially when the devotees would come from Bengal side, somebody is bringing something, somebody is... Whatever Caitanya Mahāprabhu likes. And they will prepare the whole year nice foodstuffs. That is, what is called, preserved food. You can keep it for days together. So His personal assistant was Govinda, and everyone will, I mean to say, offer Govinda, "Please offer this food to Prabhu." And Govinda will keep. And everyone is anxious whether his goods are taken. So he was inquiring Govinda, "Has Mahāprabhu has taken my food?" What can he say? "Yes, yes, yes, yes." But it is stacked in the store.
Yoko Ono: Yes, but, you see, the religion is bringing out (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Just see that Kṛṣṇa is the authority. He's accepted by everyone. You say Maharsi belongs to the Śaṅkara sampradāya. Śaṅkarācārya accepts Kṛṣṇa. Not as authority... He says, "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." He says this very word in his commentary.
Prabhupāda: He knows Sanskrit very well. Compulsory. Therefore it is said, gacchet-compulsory. Tad-vijñānārtham... Tat, the transcendental knowledge, vijñāna, that is science. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva niścayate (MU 1.2.12). Eva is niścayate. Eva means certainly. And again gacchet, "must go." Now, just like to be educated, one must be admitted in a school, must be. Now, what kind of school he has to select, that is another thing, but he must. That's a fact. Similarly, you have to accept a guru. Now, whom you will accept a guru, that is another thing. But you have to do it. That is the injunction of all śāstras. Vedic process is like that. This upanayana, the sacred thread, upanayana. Upa means near, and nayana means bringing. Anayanam, coming or going, like that, nayanam. So "to go near the spiritual master," upanayana.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. You are bringing something else besides Bhagavad-gītā. Just try to understand. We are preaching... This International Society for Krishna Consciousness, we are preaching...
Guest (1): But you have to understand the relation between the two.
Prabhupāda: That's all... That we understand very nicely. It is not that I have to learn from you. We know it very well. But you should know that we are preaching Bhagavad-gītā. So this jyotir-liṅga, all these theories, they are not in the Bhagavad-gītā. It may be in other literature, but we are particularly interested in preaching Bhagavad-gītā. Because Bhagavad-gītā is wrongly preached all over the world by nonsense commentation, we want to rectify it. Therefore our society is specially named "Krishna conscious."
Prabhupāda: Just like these flowers. These flowers the devotees are bringing to their spiritual master, to God. They are not enjoying. Ordinary man, if he gets a flower, he'll put it in the pocket. How... You see? That is the difference of God consciousness. The flower is the same, but use is different.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Lust and..., Eros, lust. Agape(?) is pure love, transcendental love.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is... This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to bring everything to the perfectional stage. The others, they're, out of frustration, they want to stop all activity. That is voidism—to stop all this activity. Buddha philosophy is more or less based on this voidism, make everything null and void. No more activities. No more love. We don't say. Just like you cannot see properly because our eyes are diseased. So cure the disease and then you see properly. And other says, "All right, pluck it out. The disease in the eyes, take away." That is not very good proposition. We say that make treatment to make the eyes to see properly. Remedy problem. Our proposition is: Sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena... (CC Madhya 19.170). We simply cleanse the process. The seeing process we cleanse. We don't pluck out the eyes out of frustration. Don't see, make everything void. No. We don't say that because there is no void. It is simply frustration. There is variety, nice variety, spiritual variety. We are bringing people to that position.
Prabhupāda: Hariścandra, yes. And daughters?
Guest: Daughters they will be bringing with them this evening also, the two daughters.
Prabhupāda: Oh. So how old they are?
Guest: One is about seventeen.
Prabhupāda: One I think ten years.
Reporter: If you proclaim that this is the real Hinduism, the people are getting fed up with Hinduism.
Prabhupāda: No. No Hindu. Why you are bringing Hinduism?
Reporter: Our, this system...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Reporter: ...is only by Hindu...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Hinduism is a foreign word, given by the Muslim. We don't find any word "Hindu" in the Vedic literature. Why do you call Hinduism? We are not preaching Hinduism. We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Jayatīrtha: They're probably going to be taping some movie here, so they're bringing portable units for dressing and so on.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Most karmīs here, they have mobile homes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They drive with the car on, and they... (break)
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Devotee (1): So that's how it goes back into the body of Mahā-Viṣṇu?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like football.
Pañca-draviḍa: I was being trained up in this. For one-and-a-half years I was going to MIT in Boston and planning to go into this chemical, chemistry or chemical engineering or metallurgy, something like that. But I could see that actually the people around me, my student body, all the people in the school, they were so maladjusted and miserable that I decided "If this is the result of their scientific training that they are so miserable, I'm going to leave here immediately," and I did so. I got out as quickly as I could. (break) ...see that their training is just simply bringing them misery in life and, therefore, there is no purpose in acquiring such knowledge. And Prabhupāda describes it as being like the jewel on the hood of a snake, more dangerous.
Prabhupāda: Once I was invited to speak in that institution, MIT. So I questioned, "Where is your department of technology to understand the difference between dead body and living body?" So I spoke on this. So the students appreciated. After my lecture, they gathered around me. How do you explain? What is that technology, why the man is dead? Science is simply based on this bodily concept. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13).
Indian man: But about body also they don't know anything.
Prabhupāda: That also they have no perfect knowledge.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Chewing the chewed. One scientist explained to some extent. The matter remained the same. Another rascal comes. He explains again. And the matter remains the same. What advancement you have made? Nothing. Simply some volumes of books. That's all. Just like there is petrol problem. What your this explanation will help? You have created problem. Now you are dependent so much on petrol. If the petrol supply is stopped, then what these rascal scientists can do? They cannot do anything. It is stopped. Now there is scarcity of water in India. What the scientists can do? There is enough water. Why the scientists cannot throw this water where there is scarcity of water? It will require the help of cloud. That is God's manipulation. You cannot do anything. Water is here, so much water. Why don't you make this sand fertile by bringing this water? Fertilization made by supplying water in the desert.
Prabhupāda: We have got our process. You do not know. You admit. That is Vedic knowledge. Everything is there. If you want to know, you have to spend so much money to study how many forms are there. But we believe in the Vedas. We get immediately the correct knowledge. Now you cannot challenge it because you do not know. Neither you can know by research work. (pause) Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. The, actually the sea waves, bringing their food. The small fishes or...?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: When a wave comes, they run this way, and when the wave goes down, they run down.
Prabhupāda: When the waves bring the food, so immediately they capture. So there is no scarcity of food, even for the small birds. And we are in scarcity. The scientist is manufacturing tablet.
Prabhupāda: Ah, Uṣā, Uṣā, yes. So Aniruddha. That friend brought Aniruddha, Kṛṣṇa's son. She dreamt Aniruddha. So she promised, "I am bringing you just picture, which picture do you like?"
Kṛṣṇa-Kāntī: Citralekhā.
Prabhupāda: Citralekhā. Yes, he remembers.
Prabhupāda: But dog stool is not illegal. Just see how foolish they are. If you drop a paper on this grass, that is illegal. But you can get your dogs pass stool, it doesn't matter. This is their intelligence. They will not allow if you are bringing one mango from other part of the country, but they will allow dog also bringing so many germs. They do not know. Dog also brings so many germs, infectious germs.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is why they were very careful. When the astronauts from the moon, when they come back on the surface of the planet, they thought there might be some germs which they do not know yet. So they put it in quarantine for several days, to make sure that they are...
Prabhupāda: First of all make sure whether he had gone there, and then talk of all these things. (laughing) I am not sure they are going there.
Śyāmasundara: They're bringing some prasāda.
Prabhupāda: Is there any other paper? No, it is a very impressive picture.
David Wynne: It's wonderful.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And they have given, "A Rival for Nelson." So this movement is a rival... Days were there in British Empire that Nelson was a hero. Now Kṛṣṇa is going to be hero in this country. (laughter) It is a good admission, "A Rival for Nelson." Actually, He should be.
Śyāmasundara: ...and something to wash hands in. (door closes)
Prabhupāda: No, he's bringing. You can take.
Śyāmasundara: David has said that he would like to spend some time, a day or something, making also your form into stone. Is that...? Or into some metal. Is that all right?
Prabhupāda: Well, what I am? I am insignificant. I have no objection. Our, some of our artists may paint this picture. I liked it very much.
Pradyumna: He's just bringing little...
Mukunda: We are just bringing you a little prasādam.
Mr. Wadell: Oh, no, no, I must. I have my boys. They wait for me and I must be with them. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: There is some prasādam.
Śyāmasundara: He is teacher just down the road in the school.
Prabhupāda: You take little this. Yes. Just take little.
Prabhupāda: So therefore we have got our school already in Dallas, to train small children like that. But there is formalities of this nationalism. What is the formalities? Eh?
Satsvarūpa: Just... It's not very difficult. It's just that we have... There is a form that we assure the other countries that we will take care of this child's lodging and all his... So we're bringing children from other countries.
Guest (3): Is it only for boys, or boys and girls?
Satsvarūpa: No, boys and girls.
Guest (3): And they are very well looked after there?
Satsvarūpa: Up to fifteen, yes.
Prabhupāda: Well, as far as possible.
Prabhupāda: They were so suspicious.
Buddhist Monk (1): Well, I was wondering whether they would ask me whether I am bringing narcotic, the religion, the heart of the heartless, soul of the soulless, the opiate of the masses. So I had read Marx before I left my country. I had thought "They will ask me," but no such question was asked. And ultimately, when I was leaving the Soviet Union, they again opened my books, you see, and put them back. One book, an officer kept one book. I thought, "Now, what is this? All right." He closed the suitcase, did not put this book, and he comes behind me and says, "Could I have this book?" I said, "You see, I have made many notes in the book. Why do you want that book for? So kindly return it to me, please." He wouldn't return it. He follows. And he said, "Please let me have it." I asked him, "Why do you want this book really for?" He said, "I have studied Buddhism from the Northern School, and I would like to know something about the Southern School of Buddhism." I said, "Anyhow, you can get these books, I'll give you an address." But he wouldn't give it to me. He said "Please let me have it." I said, "All right, good health and peace to you. You can have it." Hungarians are very warm-hearted people, very warm-hearted people.
Prabhupāda: It is for me?
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Leave it.
Śyāmasundara: They're bringing prasādam? Oh, that's nice.
Prabhupāda: So how such big men, minister, could accept such position of a mendicant and live...? Now, gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛtābdhi-laharī-kallola-magnau... So they got a better thing. They dipped into the ocean of the gopīs' ecstasy. They were always thinking of the gopīs' activities with Kṛṣṇa. Gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛtābdhi-laharī-kallola-magnau muhur, vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. So unless one gets a better thing, he cannot give up the less important thing. So when, unless one gets that better thing—better humor, better mellow—they cannot give up these material engagements. Therefore, to get that better thing, it is advised that part of your hard labor you offer to Kṛṣṇa. This is called karma-yoga. You remain in your karma, but nirbandha, nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe, be touched with Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and spend at least fifty percent for Kṛṣṇa. Then, gradually, you come to the... Just like the Gosvāmīs came. So this is the policy. Otherwise, for Kṛṣṇa conscious men there is no need. Everything Kṛṣṇa will supply. Mādhavendra Purī installed a Deity. Now, for months, years together, only festival was going on. (pause) And another good example is that if somebody is in business and if he spends for Kṛṣṇa, that is a very good example for the karmīs. Because everyone is not going to stop their karmī mentality. So this will be an example, that "You are engaged in material. Now spend like this." That is another preaching. Loka-saṅgraha. This is called loka-saṅgraha, to collect ordinary men for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like Janaka-rāja, he was a king, but great saintly person.
Revatīnandana: They're bringing some fruit for you.
Mukunda: In a few minutes they're bringing some refreshments.
Prabhupāda: Can you wait?
Mukunda: I can take you straight to the station.
Sir Alistair Hardy: And I must catch at least the 7:15 train.
Mukunda: Oh, yes, definitely.
Sir Alistair Hardy: 7:15
Revatīnandana: 7:15 there'll be plenty of time. If we leave twenty minutes from now, by that time you will have had a little...
Sir Alistair Hardy: Yes, I...
Revatīnandana: They're bringing something right now.
Prabhupāda: You have to go to Oxford?
Sir Alistair Hardy: Yes, yes, I must.
Śyāmasundara: She's bringing some dinner for you. Just, just coming.
Lord Brockway: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: One minute.
Prabhupāda: Give him this garland. I forgot to give the garland.
Lord Brockway: (laughs) As in, as in India.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Lord Brockway: Very often.
Śyāmasundara: Mālatī gave him a rose, but...
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Śyāmasundara: No, they're bringing. (sounds of eating)
Prabhupāda: She has prepared?
Śyāmasundara: Yes, I think so.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. (Break)
Śyāmasundara: Would you like to wash your hands?
Lord Brockway: Yes, thank you.
Haṁsadūta: Such a simple point. If a cow is living by God's grass...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Professor: Yes, yes. It is the same as the upanayana.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Upa means "near," nayanam, "to bring." Upanayana-saṁskāra. And the sacred thread means that he has been accepted by the spiritual master by bringing him near to spiritual consciousness.
Professor: So at the time of initiation, you not only give the Gāyatrī-mantra, but also the sacred thread.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Professor: Oh, I see.
Prabhupāda: Just we have given Gāyatrī-mantra... You have got that paper? Yes. Show him. Give him.
Professor: Can I take it with me?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: I have no spoon.
Haṁsadūta: Someone's bringing it. Mukunda's bringing it.
Prabhupāda: Get it. Give me little water.
Revatīnandana: Pardon me?
Prabhupāda: Water.
Revatīnandana: What? Water.
Prabhupāda: Yes, come here.
Prabhupāda: And in London, Oxford Street, the most crowded street, just like our Bombay, Harley Road... So in the big, big cities they are now chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, dancing. People are enjoying. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). You can play this record at home and dance in tune and enjoy.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They are bringing it. This is the record, Every Town and Village. They are bringing the machine.
Prabhupāda: We are arrested by the police sometimes. Sometimes there are big cases against us. In Ireland. Ireland?
Pradyumna: Ireland, Scotland, in Edinburgh, too.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) These impediments are always there, even in Caitanya Mahāprabhu's time. The Kazi, the Mohammedan magistrate, he wanted to stop. (pause) Kṛṣṇa tvadīya pada-paṅkaja-pañjarāntam (MM 33). So you are devotee of Rādhārāṇī. Eh? Yes, that is good. Through Rādhārāṇī, one should approach Kṛṣṇa. And therefore Vṛndāvana, they, everyone says, "Jaya Rādhe," first of all glorifying Rādhārāṇī. We have got many records.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. How it is made? That they do not know, how subtle things are being done... (aside) We can go this way. That is their ignorance. They do not know subtle things. Simply gross manifestation attracts their attention. That's all. Jaḍā-dṛṣṭi. It is called jaḍā-dṛṣṭi, material vision. No sukhā-dṛṣṭi. Every, every field, they have no finer introspection. Simply gross. They deal with gross things. Just like the same example: Here is a tree, but it is a fact, this tree has grown from a small seed. So what do they know about the seed, how it is manufactured, how it has got the potency of bringing out such a big tree? Not only that, in that seed there will be millions of fruits, and each fruit there will be millions of seeds, and each seed contains again millions of trees. Where is your science? Where is that potency?
Devotee: Is a seed conscious, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. Everything is conscious. First of all, even gross manifestation we cannot understand, what to speak of consciousness. That is different thing. According to our philosophy, everything has got consciousness. Just like this tree has got consciousness.
Bahulāśva: That will curb them down.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They will be purified. The more you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, they will be purified. This is... All problems are there on account of misunderstanding. What we are distributing? We are simply moving misunderstanding and bringing them to knowledge. This is our propaganda. So Mr. Theologician, is this suggestion appealing to you?
Prajāpati: It seems all right for ordinary dealings, Śrīla Prabhupāda, having this money, what's going on, but for large scale transactions it might be very difficult.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Prajāpati: And as the practical basis, transactions of thousands and thousands of dollars, would be...
Prabhupāda: That will be good for the people. Because large scale transaction is there, therefore the capitalists hoarding. Capitalists hoarding. Goods are there, everything is there. You pay black price, you get it. Then, when somebody's hoarding, he is not giving to the market. So if the large scale industry and trade becomes stopped, that is good for people.
Prabhupāda: ...is that nṛpa-liṅga-dharaṁ śūdram. The śūdras, fourth-class men, they are on the government executive. This is one defect. And another defect is ghnantaṁ go-mithunaṁ padā, maintaining large-scale slaughterhouse. These are the two defects of modern civilization. They..., on the top of government there are śūdras, not kṣatriyas. Neither they are guided by intelligent class, brāhmaṇas. Parīkṣit Mahārāja's first beginning is dvija-varya-śikṣayā. The guidance was first-class brāhmaṇas, and he was a kṣatriya, first-class. And there was no animal slaughterhouse. They are also suffering. They are bringing every day some problem. "What is the solution of this problem, what is this solution...?" But why the problems are coming? Because the defect is there that the, on the head of the government there are śūdras and they are busy in cow-killing, maintaining slaughterhouse. This is the defect. And they are not guided by the first-class, intelligent class of men.
Prabhupāda: But we are feeling new pleasure in every moment. Take any other chanting, you cannot chant more than few hours. But the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra we can chant perpetually. So unless there is new enlightenment, how we can do that? (break) You can preach here, and then we are starting on the..., by the fourteenth. We shall go together to India. Is that all right? What do you think?
Karandhara: Are you bringing your boys over there?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Gurukṛpā: They're going separate.
Karandhara: Oh.
Gurukṛpā: If we go the other way it's cheaper.
Prabhupāda: Which way?
Karandhara: Through New York.
Prabhupāda: (break) I cannot go there. You see? As if three hundred miles away.
Prabhupāda: So destiny is that we should devote our life for awakening Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This human life is meant for that purpose. By nature's way, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27), nature is bringing us. As soon as we become sinful, we are dropped down to suffer the sequence of sinful life in different varieties. Again, just like a man, criminal, is put into the jail, but when his time is finished, again he is made free. Similarly, the cycle of birth and death, dehāntara-prāptiḥ, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), one after another, is going on. So the animal life means reaction of sinful life, and upper class of life, demigods, means result of pious life. Two kinds of things are there, sinful and pious, through the cycle of birth is going on. But this human form of life or above human form of life, it is a chance for understanding the real value of life, and therefore for human beings there are guidances, these Vedas, Purāṇas, Vedānta-sūtra. It is meant for the human beings, not for the cats and dogs. Anādi-bahirmukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gela ataeva kṛṣṇa veda-purāṇa kaila (CC Madhya 20.117). So it is recommended in the human form of life, first of all training as a brahmacārī, then he may remain as gṛhastha for sometime. The life is divided into four parts, twenty-five years.
Guru dāsa: Huṇḍi.
Prabhupāda: No. That we shall... He is not bringing all the goods at a time.
Guru dāsa: Oh.
Prabhupāda: Partially. We have to pay.
Guru dāsa: All right. (break) Śrīla Prabhupāda, I want you to feel that we will do this, and this work, and spend frugally and thrifty.
Prabhupāda: Very frugally. You have already become very unfrugal.
Guru dāsa: I am agitated that you are anxious about it, because yes, I commit many mistakes, no doubt.
Prabhupāda: So, that's all right. Don't commit more, that's all.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) They are good disciples. They are bringing everything. I am simply ordering. Still, I think, "That was better, to depend on..."
Dr. Patel: What is Māyāvāda, Māyāvāda? This, we do not understand anything. māyā is a fact because it is the power of God, and you have got to work with it. So we are all of us are vādīs. Don't talk all these thing now Swamiji, I am going to fire him.
Prabhupāda: No, why you have become angry?
Dr. Patel: No, I don't become angry, I become violent, not angry.
Mr. Sar: Māyāvādī's name is speaker.
Prabhupāda: That means he is Māyāvādī.
Guru dāsa: One who works hard for Kṛṣṇa day and night and one who controls his senses.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the first thing. Vāco vegaṁ krodha-vegam udara-vegam upastha-vegaṁ manasa-vegam, etān vegān yo viṣaheta dhīraḥ pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt (NOI 1). One who can control these kinds of urges, vāco vegam, talking nonsense—that is called vāco vegam. Krodha-vegam, anger. Urges of the mind. Mind dictates, "Do this, do that." Then udara-vegam, eating vegam. "Eat more, more, more." Udara-vegam. Upastha-vegam. Genital. When one can control these six vegān, urges, then he is fit for becoming gosvāmī, and he can make śiṣya all over, śiṣya, disciple, all over the world. Pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt. This is gosvāmī. Not that a business. (Hindi) Is there any mention Bhāgavata-saptāha in the Bhāgavatam? There are so many big, big commentators. They have never recommended. But this business is going on. They are holding Bhāgavata-saptāha and bringing money and employing it for the sons', daughters' marriage very opulently. And the, their supporters, they're also invited. They say, "Oh here is a gosvāmī." This is going on here. (break) ... of gosvāmī, there is not a single gosvāmī. At least visible. Where is that vāco vegaṁ krodha-vegam udara upastha-vegam (NOI 1) control? And where is that pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt, all world-wide?
Guru dāsa: Yes, disciples...
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Ah, where is that? Śiṣya.
Devotee: You are.
Prabhupāda: I may be whatever I am. That's all. But this is the definition of gosvāmī. Besides that, there are other, many things.
Pañcadraviḍa: When we run into those people... Sometimes we run into Muslims, Jains, Christians, and usually what we do is we approach them on the basis of our welfare work. Because we have got our work where we are feeding persons in Māyāpur, we are doing different..., opening schools. So we approach them that God is also one. There is one God and we are doing work for bringing all the people to God. In Māyāpur we are feeding so many Muslims every day.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is good preaching. But when there is argument, when somebody says, you should be prepared to argue with them. It stopped? We shall go another round?
Akṣayānanda: I think it has stopped.
Prabhupāda: Then why he has said, "Thou shalt not kill"? Then hypocrisy. Then you reject Jesus complete. He is a hypocrite. Yes. That is the conclusion. How can you follow hypocrite? Huh? Is that all right? If Jesus Christ himself killed animals and he said, "Thou shalt not kill," then he is a hypocrite. Then he cannot preach. He is a hypocrite. You are bringing Christ for condemnation. But how a hypocrite can be the head or can be the religious man or can be...
Akṣayānanda: It is not that we are saying he is a hypocrite.
Prabhupāda: He is proving.
Akṣayānanda: He himself, the Christian is saying that Jesus Christ is a hypocrite.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Rascal, what you have done? You are simply talking. What you have done? There are so many starving people all over the world. What you have done? "Starving people." I have seen. They cannot give starving people. Just like we went to Russia. So we wanted rice. There is no rice. There was no good rice. We wanted fruit. There was no fruit. So what you have done? I am starving for fruit and rice. You cannot supply me. That is practical. I have seen it. They will offer, "Take this beef instead of fruit." Then I will starve. So what he has done for me? I am starving. I cannot take beef. I want rice, but you cannot supply me. That I have seen. One Madrasi gentleman was bringing rice for me. It could not be purchased in the market. There is no fruit. So if I want fruit and rice and if you give me beef, it is as good as if I want bread, if you give me stone. So where is the capacity to satisfy the starving? I am starving for rice. You cannot give me. Why do you propose like that, that you can satisfy the starving man. You cannot do that. You are talking nonsense.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Now, this is the point that my spiritual master is bringing out, that the material energy is inferior, and in order to have a spiritual revolution you have to understand the superior energy which is eternal, without birth and without death. So, of course, there is no question of destruction for the soul.
Dr. Sallaz: Destruction in our occidental language and practically, which is not yours.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Destruction in simple terms, just as we know something has a beginning and something has an end. That is destruction. So in Vedic terms that which has a beginning and has an end is called material, and that which has no beginning and no end, but is existing nonetheless, that is called spiritual or superior energy.
Dr. Sallaz: Of course. This cannot be destroyed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That cannot be destroyed.
Jyotirmayī: He is asking if it is possible for young Christians... Because each time he has been coming he has been bringing with him people, you know, Christian who have been chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, with him. So he is asking if it is possible for them to chant the name God, that in fact is not really a name, by the name Kṛṣṇa, because according to what you are explaining, God is Kṛṣṇa. So can they chant the name of Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is God. Kṛṣṇa is God. God is the idea of greatness. That is Brahman. Or you can say also person, but not the particular person. God means, the Sanskrit word is īśvara, the controller. So everyone is controller to some extent. In his own atmosphere he is a controller, as I am controller of my disciples. So the conception of God is there, but I am not the Supreme God. Therefore, there are two words. We use the word "Godhead," "the Supreme God." That is explained in the Brahma-saṁhitā, īśvara, God. Everyone is God; that is another thing. But īśvaraḥ paramaḥ, the Supreme God, is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Unless we understand that what is his aim of discussion, then how we can make progress? (Yogeśvara mentions something in French about Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna) No, why you are bringing Kṛṣṇa, Arjuna? First of all, let us know what is the aim of our discussion, the subject matter of discussion. (French for some time)
Jyotirmayī: His main point when he quotes Bhagavad-gītā is to show that it is a philosophy of action, it is dynamic, that Kṛṣṇa told Arjuna to fight. So there was a war. It is dynamics, not just sentiment, philosophy. It is active.
Yogeśvara: Yeah. Neti, neti. Getting rid of the bad elements.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is practical, practical action.
Bhagavān: And our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to make that knowledge available in practical activity to stop this suffering. It is not just a philosophy without practice. That is the reason why it is important for discussing, not just for the sake of discussing but for the sake of bringing out the highest principles for action.
Prabhupāda: So according to Vedic way, Kṛṣṇa is the Absolute Truth. Kṛṣṇa is Absolute Truth, accepted by the ācāryas. Indian civilization is carried on the advice of the ācārya-sampradāya. So all the ācāryas like Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, they all accept Kṛṣṇa as the Absolute Truth. So when we hear from Kṛṣṇa then we get absolute knowledge.
Devotee: Some is bringing.
Prabhupāda: So he has gone?
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is explained, that how this human form of life should be utilized, these necessities of life, not for to complete the necessities. Necessities of life, they are already supplied by God. Just like the birds and beasts, they are getting their necessities of life. They have no organization or no business, no factory, but they are getting their necessities of life. So Bhāgavata says, "This is not the problem, to acquire only the necessities of life. The only business is to inquire about the Absolute Truth. That is human life.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Atomic bomb normally acts as, ah, what happened is the particles floating in the atmosphere, like chemicals, chemicals, what happened is this explosion offers this, ah, fundamental particles like neutrons, electrons, they bombard further atoms which are already in the atmosphere. So one by one they knock out these smaller particles called electrons. They move very high velocity. There is a very tremendous energy, amount of energy released. So one... So suppose first atomic bomb, ah, the, ah, the energy-bringing substance like electron, neutron, hits another atom, and then it knocks out several of that sort, and then it makes a chain reaction, not stopping because..., and thereby several atoms they will knock each other, one by one, without stopping. Small particles, so much energy has got. But in the sun planet, where it is so hot, it is already probably more powerful that the atomic bomb itself.
Prabhupāda: Therefore this example. (laughs) What it will act, the atomic bomb, in the sun planet? Similarly, Brahmā might have possessed some power, but what is that power in comparison to Kṛṣṇa? Every power is derived from Him; so Brahmā's mystic power cannot act on Kṛṣṇa. (end)
Prabhupāda: Of the body. Just like you are moving, I am moving. As soon as the moving force, whatever it is, is gone, then your body is a lump of matter, my body is a lump of matter.
Reporter: Have you had any difficulty in bringing this, which seems to have originated in India, into the West?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Haṁsadūta: Have we found any problems or difficulty is bringing this teaching, which appears to have originated in India, to the West? Have we found any problem?
Prabhupāda: No, there cannot be any problem. Just like I am speaking to you. If you are sane man, you will have to admit this. The mistake you will have to admit, if you are a sane man. If you are something else, then you will not admit the mistake.
Prabhupāda: Oh, Dutch. Dutch people, there were.
Ambassador: Germans especially. But now may I ask you while I have the chance? You have had so much to do with bringing the dharma to the West. What is your idea? What is your mission? It seems to me, in many ways there is a transfer of the essential spirit going West, because the interest is there.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Ambassador: And what is left in the East is so often just the materialism imitated from the West among many young people now.
Prabhupāda: Where, in the East? Yes.
Ambassador: In the East. So there's been a crossover taking place.
Prabhupāda: Hm, yes.
Ambassador: Do you see it like that?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. In Western countries they are now fed up with this materialistic way of life. And I think it will very soon collapse, the Western way of life. And naturally the next enquiry is spiritual.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But you mentioned in Miami... This is the reason I'm bringing it up. In Miami we mentioned that we would be discussing at Māyāpur. Something, you know, should be done so that...
Prabhupāda: What is that something? The first something is that everyone is complaining that they are not getting books. You just, first of all, do it, how to stop these complaints.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We got to get the books (indistinct)
Jayatīrtha: In India?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayatīrtha: This is the problem.
Prabhupāda: The India is membership, and the members, if they are dissatisfied, then? This is not good. So find out the way how this complaint can be solved.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The reason I'm bringing this up is because, heretofore, the BBT has been managed by one or two trustees, and the point is that maybe it is best that it be managed by the GBC.
Prabhupāda: So that... First of all manage these things. Then you will, it will be included in the trustees. First of all show your capacity that you have managed these things very nicely, these two things. Why there should be complaint? How you can solve it? And why the temples should be maintained by collection of the BBT? It is meant for printing and constructing temples. Why should (we) violate the purpose of the Trust? So first of all you manage these two things. Then, if you want, you can come. If the problem remains the same, then what is the use of increasing heads?
Atreya Ṛṣi: What is obvious is that Prabhupāda's interference has always come because we have not done our jobs right.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prajāpati: Well, one we were bringing up is that theology is a means that faithful men are coming to understand themselves, not that are approaching God. One approaches God within a community and within...
Prabhupāda: That a faithful man understands God, that we say. Then what is the basic principle of theology? Why this separate science has been established as "theology"? Logy means science.
Prajāpati: Yes. From the Christian point of view, the science is there simply that man does not accept simply by sentiment or by faith, but he can have his mind convinced as well.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yaśodānandana: It seems that the English culture has conquered over the Indian culture then.
Prabhupāda: No, Indian culture is still going on. It is not lost. Otherwise how it is going to your country and bringing you? (laughter)
Ravīndra-svarūpa: A person might argue that the Indians weren't satisfied either; otherwise they wouldn't have taken up the English culture. So what's the difference?
Prabhupāda: No. When you are standing on two boats you'll never be satisfied. It is very dangerous position, you know? Two boats, on the river, and if you put one leg here, one leg here, it is always troublesome. Either you give up this or give up that. Then your position will be safe. But India's position is like that. Two boats, he is standing, and he is troubled.
Prabhupāda: Again, again you are bringing the same question, Eastern-Western.
Rāmeśvara: Materialistic.
Prabhupāda: Materialistic means that is the ultimate end of materialistic life. Because they want new pleasure, new pleasure, new pleasure, so sometimes this, sometimes that... Sometimes they think the civilized way is better; sometimes the uncivilized way is better. That's all, this way and that way. That is called punaḥ punaś ca... And then you'll take again to civilized way of... I think some of the hippies are taking now. Yes. Because the same example, stool, this side or that side, it is stool. So these materialistic persons, they are trying to change from this side to that side, but it is stool. That is the... That they do not know. They are accepting stool as something very sublime, and therefore they are trying to change the position, sometimes this side, sometimes that side. Hitvā anyathā rūpam. This is anyathā rūpam, means a living being. Being spiritual, his business is spiritual, but he has accepted material as the platform of his happiness. That is his fault.
Prabhupāda: Ah. In India especially, people like. Sannyāsī may preach. Otherwise, the formula of sannyāsa is given-karyam: "But this is my only duty. That's all. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement should be pushed. This is my only duty." He's sannyāsī. Because Kṛṣṇa personally comes, He demands... Sarva-dharmān parityaja mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Kṛṣṇa, He says, yei kṛṣṇa tattva vettha sei guru haya: "Anyone who knows the science of Kṛṣṇa, he's guru." And what is the guru's business? Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "Whomever you meet, you just try to impress upon him about the instruction of Kṛṣṇa." Sarva-dharmān parityaja... So in this way, if we take it up, very seriously—"This is my duty"—then you are a sannyāsī. That's all. Sa sannyāsī. Kṛṣṇa certifies, sa sannyāsī. People are not taking seriously about Kṛṣṇa's teaching. That is India's misfortune. They're bringing in so many competition of Kṛṣṇa. Is Kṛṣṇa... And "Kṛṣṇa... Rāmakrishna is as good as Kṛṣṇa." This rascaldom has killed. They have done the greatest disservice. Instead of Kṛṣṇa, they have brought one rascal, Ramakrishna.
Prabhupāda: Give him some prasāda.
Amogha: He's bringing something for you.
Carol: We have your record, the Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Temple album. It's beautiful. We sing the chants every night now. They're rather lovely.
Amogha: She says she has the Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Temple album, and every night they sing the chants. At home. They have the record from London.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Carol: They're pretty hard to get hold of. I wish there were more around.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that will benefit. That will benefit.
Prabhupāda: Your preaching will not be stopped. It will go on. (pause)
Amogha: He's bringing the car. He went back. He'll bring it around. (reading sign) "The Tree Society originated the idea of placing this kadi log in King's Park. The log, normally destined for milling, was provided and brought by Booning Brothers P.T. Limited from their Darling River sawmilling area. The following transporting and placing in position of this great log from over 200 miles from the depths of the forest, with each of the three sections borne on a 200 horsepower motor truck, was a major engineering feat and a tribute to the spirit of western Australian timber men. With the approval and assistance of the King's Park board, the actual placing of the log in King's Park by 25 June, 1958, was contributed to by Hume Pipe Co., Aaron Brothers B.P. Australia Ltd, the Forests Department and other government departments. The completion of the project was a fine example of community effort."
Paramahaṁsa: It weighs a hundred and ten tons. And it's 363 years old, this log. They say it grew that long. In America we have some redwood trees in California they say are many thousands of years old.
Amogha: This is a type of eucalyptus?
Paramahaṁsa: It says Eucalyptus diversicol.
Prabhupāda: Bhāgavata says, kiṁ taromana jīvanti. You want to prolong your life. The trees—they do not prolong their life? So if you prolong your life, does it mean that you are better than a tree? Kim taromana jīvanti. If prolonging life is your mission, the trees automatically do that without any scientific knowledge. Then what is the value of your science? Kim taromana jīvanti. Do they not live for thousands of years? What is the value of such living? If the tree is living, standing for 10,000 years, then what is the value of this 10,000 years? So if you live like a tree, without any benefit, then what is the value of your life?
Jayadharma: Some people say that trees may be very happy. How do we know?
Prabhupāda: If you want to become happy like that, be. Stand up. Stand up on the bench and laugh—be happy. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Why you should interpret upon Kṛṣṇa's word? If you have got your own philosophy, you write another book. Why do you touch Bhagavad-gītā? This is their cheating. Bhagavad-gītā is a popular book. Gandhi also took Bhagavad-gītā for his political diplomacy. This is going on. And they'll never agree to accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is. They'll never agree. The other day I was there in Kurukṣetra. They have got their own plan-mānava-dharma, this dharma, that dharma. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya: (BG 18.66) "You give up all these. Kick out all this so-called rascaldom. You just surrender unto Me." That they will not do. Except this, everything which is going on in the name of religion, that is cheating. Everyone is misinterpret... Just like Christians, they have misinterpreted: "Kill means murder. It is meant for man." That means they are making their own lusty desires fulfilled in the name of Bible, that's all. Everyone is doing like that. They are changing. Mass opinion is now homosex. They are passing abortion. They are passing... What is this? This is their business. For fulfillment of their lusty desires and greediness, they are bringing the authority of Bible, Bhagavad-gītā. This is going on in the name of religion.
Prabhupāda: Nescience, yes. That is pravṛtti and nivṛtti. Pravṛtti means sense enjoyment. And nivṛtti means self-negation. So when we say that "You shall not have illicit sex," and their inclination is illicit sex, so therefore it is revolutionary. They are materialistic persons. They want sex enjoyment to the best capacity-homosex, this sex, that sex, naked dance, all sexually inclined, pravṛtti. And we say, "Stop this," nivṛtti. They do not like it because āsura. Pravṛtti jagat. They do not know this is essential. They do not know it. This is essential. Tapasā brahmacaryena (SB 6.1.13). Tapasya means brahmacarya. The so-called swamis, they are coming for this so-called yoga practice and..., but they are themself victim of sex. This is going on. Actually, it is a bluff—they have become swami and teaching some yoga system—because they do not know that one has to stop this first of all. Brahmacaryena. So this bluffing is going on all over the world, and we are speaking just against them. Murkhayopadeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye. If you give instruction to the rascals, he will simply be angry. He will not take advantage of it. This is our position. All the so-called professors, philosophers, they are all in the pravṛtti-mārga. Therefore they are bringing somebody, "Our interpretation is like this." Pravṛtti-mārga. Because if they can find out some support from the śāstra, then they think, "We are secure." This is going on. Pravṛttim ca nivṛttim janā na vidur āsurāḥ. The whole world is full of asuras, descendant of Hiraṇyakaśipu, and it is very difficult. But if we give them chance to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, gradually they will understand.
Justin Murphy: The functions are different, but it's the same heart that's beating, the same veins...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no, it is not the same body. Just like in your childhood, when you were a boy, you had no sex impulse. Now you have got sex impulse. The body of a child, the body of a boy, they cannot understand sex life because the body is different. And now, because you have got different body, you can feel what is sex life. So it is imperceptibly changing. Therefore we think that it is growing. But it is changing. It is changing swiftly. Just like in the cinema spool. The picture is changing, but because it is changing so swiftly, you are seeing that one man is moving. That is the fact. There are hundreds and thousands of pictures passed on. When you see that "This man is taking the stick and bringing this way," this means there are many pictures. So similarly, it is like a spool. Your body is changing every moment. That is medical science.
Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of bringing that man?
Śrutakīrti: We tell them that you have come, (Prabhupāda laughs) but they'll not accept it.
Prabhupāda: No, I have come and that I shall think over. First of all let me know how you will believe. Suppose if I say, "I have come from spiritual world," will he believe?
Śrutakīrti: That's what I'm saying. No, they don't.
Prabhupāda: Therefore the method of his believing I must know. Then I present the man. What is the method of believing? Otherwise I can say, "I have come from spiritual world. You believe me." Will he believe it? Will he?
Devotee (1): Well, I would, but I do not think...
Prabhupāda: No, no, you may, you are my disciple. You may believe.
Harikeśa: So, in other words, Śukadeva Gosvāmī is always bringing Mahārāja Parīkṣit to the platform of "Why bother with all of this? Simply perform devotional service"?
Prabhupāda: Huh? No, no. He's giving full knowledge of the universal affairs. He also says at the end that "I have described whatever I have heard." That's all.
Harikeśa: So we should simply describe it without being concerned that the scientific mind may make sense out of it or not?
Prabhupāda: What is this nonsense scientific? That is... We reject immediately. What is scientific? A tiny brain, what is their science? Phene bare dhake nate ute. A snake catcher... There is a kind of snake which has no poison. So he cannot catch even that non-poisonous snake, and he's trying to catch one cobra. So these scientists, what is their value? What they have done anything contribution to the world for the benefit of the human society? They could not give any relief from the disease, relief from old age, relief from death or birth. These are the real problems. So what is their contribution? They have given some horseless carriage. Again there is problem of power. What is actually benefit they have done, that this is the benefit from the scientists? Anything they have done, there is counter disadvantage. This is simply waste of time.
Siddha-svarūpa: So that's more effective than making some experiments and bringing them some graphs.
Harikeśa: Also they loved prasādam.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That they are realizing, that how these hippies, they have given up everything, and they are now enjoying saṅkīrtana. That they are realizing. Because they know most of our devotees coming from the hippie community. So they are surprised, "How the hippies they have given up everything and they're enjoying saṅkīrtana?" That is already their problem, another, that "There must be something." Therefore these big, big professors study.
Brahmānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, Rāmeśvara would like to show you some paintings. They are bringing the book to the printer this evening.
Prabhupāda: All right. I am coming. (break)
Rāmeśvara: "...and uninterrupted in order to completely satisfy the self."
Prabhupāda: Unmotivated means "Oh, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, service of Kṛṣṇa, is so nice. Let me begin immediately." Now, "What will be the result? What shall I gain? What is the profit?" No such consideration. "Begin immediately." And if you begin in that way, there is no impediment. Apratihatā. It is so nice thing. In the material world, if you want to begin some work, then you require some preliminary qualification. It doesn't require any preliminary qualification. Whatever qualification you have got, that is sufficient. Begin. And nobody can say, "Oh, I am not educated," "I am not rich," or "I am not born of a high family." There are so many. No. These things are not impediments. Educated or uneducated, culture or no culture, it doesn't matter. You can begin immediately. The Indian culture was checked by the caste brāhmaṇas, that "This Kṛṣṇa consciousness is meant for the Hindus." Therefore it was not spread. Such a great thing, philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā, remained covered because they thought it is meant for the Hindus, for the Indians, or those who came out of India, they misinterpreted in a rubbish way. And now it is being presented as it is, it is becoming effective. Therefore apratihatā: nothing material can check its progress. Unless one voluntarily refuses it, there is no checking.
Prabhupāda: I can... Why you are bringing this question? You ask, "Why you had mustaches?" I say when I had mustaches, at that time, I was not initiated. That answer is given. That's all.
Devotee (2): Can I ask one more question, Prabhupāda? What I would like to understand is why it is wrong to ask why? If I can just understand this, why it is wrong for us to ask you in a submissive way. We were humbly asking you these "whys," not because we are trying to be intimidating or we were trying to rebel, but because we have sincerely tried to understand as your disciples.
Prabhupāda: So you better ask my so many other disciples?
Devotee (1): They don't have any answers.
Prabhupāda: Then there is no answer. I cannot attend so many things.
Satsvarūpa: You said in your lecture the other day in Los Angeles that when that happens that many people are killed in one place, it means that it's arranged by the Supreme. Just like Kurukṣetra.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated by Kṛṣṇa, that "You are thinking very patriotically that you will not kill. But it is already settled. They must be killed here. I have brought them. You kill or not kill, they will be killed. That is My plan. If you want, you take credit that you have killed." This is same arrangement. It is prearranged. War means it is bringing all the animals together and kill them, finish. And that is happening every few years after years. The Napoleon is coming for killing, and Hitler is coming for killing. Sometimes Nelson is coming for killing. But here in India the God comes for killing. Lord Rāmacandra came for killing the Rāvaṇas and Kṛṣṇa came for killing the Kauravas.
Viṣṇujana: Someone is bringing a fork. Prabhupāda, perhaps we could provide him with some of our literature and that will inform him more about our movement.
Prabhupāda: Yes, give him.
Mayor: All right, thank you.
Prabhupāda: So, Jagadīśa, you give whatever... You take his... Give him some fork.
Prabhupāda: Then you do this. Do this. This is the only means to save. Otherwise, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. There is no other second alternative.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The point I am bringing up, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is that just like the program you're proposing, practically speaking...
Prabhupāda: My idea is I want to draw the attention of the authorities.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh.
Prabhupāda: You see? If they cooperate, then we can push on our movement more vigorously.
Prabhupāda: So you have to study first of all what is nature's law. You cannot surpass the nature's law. That is not possible. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Nature's law will go on. Best thing is, let the hand... the hand can typewrite, but if you say "No, the leg will typewrite," that is not possible. Take hand's business, take leg's business, and combine them cooperatively. Then the body will be nice. If the leg says "Why hand will type? I shall type," that's not possible. "Legs, all right, you walk, and hands that you type." Then combine together. Then it will be nice. You cannot change the different capacities. There is God's law, nature's law. Let the man and woman combine together, live peacefully. The woman takes charge of the household affairs, the man may take charge of bringing money, and they meet together, have Deity at home, together chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Where is the difficulty? That is unity.
Satsvarūpa: Well, the other difficulty, you brought this up several years ago, was that the men who take many wives have to be very select. Otherwise men will be attracted to join our movement for sex life, having different wives.
Prabhupāda: No, no, unless our men are trained up, why you should allow to stay here and to wife. We want trained up men, not third-class picked-up. We want men who will follow the rules and regulations and fully trained up. Otherwise we don't want. We don't want ordinary karmīs and... And if he agrees to be trained up, then we'll take. Otherwise what is the use of bringing some useless men? He must agree to produce his own food, and work. Our rules and regulations, he must follow. Then it will be ideal community. Otherwise, if you bring from here and there some men and fill up, that is not good thing. This is a training institution, to become devotee.
Prabhupāda: It is not duty? This is the main duty. This is the main duty. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām (BG 18.66). We have taken responsibility for Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are doing. Why we are traveling all over the world thrice in a year? We have taken the responsibility. Otherwise, who is, an old man, he'll take such responsibility? That is a greater responsibility. When you become a big officer of the government, it means you overburdened with responsibility, not this flickering resp... Here the material respons... means it has no use. You are simply wasting time. And here is real responsibility and real life. That I explained to that lady, that "Even if you take respons... what can you do? You cannot do anything." The example I gave, that "You have taken responsibility for your son's disease. He is suffering. You have brought good physician, you have brought good medicine, everything, but what can you do? In spite of your all responsibility, your son dies. Then where is the value of your responsibility?" Do you think simply by bringing a nice physician and nice medicine you can save your son? Then where is your responsibility? Actually you cannot do anything, so what is the use of saying that "I am responsible"? You cannot do anything.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I... Just that one point. In my speaking to Ganesha's(?) also, even when we tell them we are bringing huge amounts of foreign exchange from abroad, they at once say, "But how do you get this money abroad?"
Prabhupāda: We sell our books.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So I was thinking maybe we could add a line or two on your books, that the foreign exchange is obtained.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "I have written about fifty books of four hundred pages on Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, Caitanya-caritamrta, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, and these books are very popular in the foreign countries, Europe and America."
Prabhupāda: That's all right. "And by the sales proceeds I am bringing foreign exchange here." So I came here that she wants to see me, then why you are getting from me write...
Lalitā: (Bengali) Next time after the meeting... (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: Read it. Read it, what I have said.
Brahmānanda: "Your Excellency Śrīmatī Indira Devi Gandhi. When I was in Toronto, Canada, Śrīmatī Lalitā Devi, who is just like my daughter, sent me one intimation that she approached you for a meeting for you and myself. And I have come here, postponing all my engagements. I am preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement all over the world on the basis of Kṛṣṇa's instructions in the Bhagavad-gītā. Actually this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is called the saṅkīrtana movement and sometimes called the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, which was inaugurated by Lord Caitanya in Bengal and throughout all India. His mission is that in India everyone should become a guru and preach all over the world."
Prabhupāda: Everyone in India.
Prabhupāda: "Four hundred pages each."
Brahmānanda: "I have written about fifty books of four hundred pages each, such as Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, and these books are very popular in foreign countries, Europe and America. By sales proceeds I am bringing foreign exchange."
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Lalitā: (Bengali) ...development India. (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: So you can give this letter to Lalitā.
Prabhupāda: "Your well-wisher." (Bengali) Word is already there. Sādhu śāstra guru vākya, tinete karīyā aikya. (Bengali) So immediately type it and give it to her.
Jayapatāka: Where it says that "I am bringing foreign exchange," in the end, "by selling my books I am bringing foreign exchange," it's for India's development?
Prabhupāda: For developing my scheme here.
Jayapatāka: And Gopāla Kṛṣṇa mentioned the point that... We're bringing foreign exchange. Whether there should be any word that also signifies that we have local support also?
Prabhupāda: Local support, that is understood. (Bengali) So our "books popular in foreign countries as well as in India." We are getting money also by these books.
Brahmānanda: We have quotations from professors in America and also India.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) ...mandāḥ, all bad men. Mandā sumanda-matayaḥ. And if he is supposed to be a good man, he will manufacture some mata, manda-mata, not approved by the śāstras. This is going on. They will not hear Kṛṣṇa. They will give quotation from Brahma-kumārī. This is the greatest defect of modern civilization, that they won't accept real authority. They will create some authority. Or rascal, he becomes authority. Especially in India, this is the drawback. In the Western countries they do not know much about this. Therefore they accept what I say. But here they bring so many. So such an important man, he is bringing authority, Brahma-kumārī, a house of prostitution. If he is bringing their quotation as authority, then what to speak of others? (break) Just like that Christian convent house. They supply woman to rich men, and they supply money. That's all. This is Brahma-kumārī. Rich man, the same disease is there—yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukha hi tuccham. So if they get facility for some maithuna, they will give you money. (Hindi) ...prostitute, for convent house. Hm? Brahmānanda? Convent house? What is that convent house? It is not prostitution? That's all.
Prabhupāda: So we... we are bringing them from which status? Yes. You cannot expect that they will be perfect all of a sudden, overnight. It is not possible. But their mind being fixed up on Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is the first qualification. They do not know anything beyond Kṛṣṇa. That's all.
Dr. Patel: In our Vaiṣṇava religions this vidhi-niṣedha is a must right from the beginning.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is must. It is must. But you cannot force in the beginning. That is not possible.
Dr. Patel: But they have to be explained of it.
Prabhupāda: But if they fix up their mind in Kṛṣṇa, the vidhi-niṣedha automatically will come. That process I adopted. When they came to me I never said that "You don't do this, don't do that, don't do that." No. "You simply come here and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." These are... Old students learned. I never said that "You have to follow these rules, these regulations, then you can come..." Because if chanting is properly done, then ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12)—the mind will be cleansed of all dirty things. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathā kṛṣṇa puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ (SB 1.2.17). Simply by hearing and chanting, they will be pious. Hṛdy antaḥ 'stho hy abhadrāṇi vidhunoti suhṛt satām. Kṛṣṇa is there. As soon as He sees one devotee is sincerely chanting, He'll help, cleansing the heart.
Guest (1): Are you striving for peace in the world? Is it one of your goals?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is trying for peace in the world. I have already referred to the United Nations organization. They are also trying peace of the world. But one must know the right way how to bring peace in the world. So our proposition is that if you keep the human being as good as animal, then how there can be peace? There cannot be any peace among animal society. (aside:) Aiye. Let him... Jaya. This is our proposal. So we are bringing these Europeans, Americans, Africans, Canadians, Australians to this platform of understanding, that "We are human being; we are not animals." The... First I have already explained. So long we shall remain in the bodily concept of life, then we remain animal.
Guest (2): But the spiritual organizations in India, all the spiritual teachings in India, have always put great emphasis on the fact that we are spiritual beings. So what was the necessity of creating another movement to say the same things?
Prabhupāda: No. We are... You have brought in the question of India. We are talking of the human society, so why you are bringing India? We are not talking about India only. Human being does not mean only Indian. You see, human being—all, outside India, inside India, everywhere. Wherever there is human being, they require this education. And it is the India's duty. Because India has got the opportunity to be spiritually advanced by the grace of learned, saintly persons, so they should first of all make their life perfect by taking education and distribute the knowledge throughout the whole world. That is India's mission.
Prabhupāda: This is the best social work. We are making animal into man. Already I have begun this, that because they are not educated how to become human being, so they remain animals. So this is the best social work, that we are bringing animals, two-legged animals, to real human being. If a human being is not properly educated, he remains an animal. So this is the proper education. Therefore we are bringing animals to human being.
Guest (3): Has your movement arranged once any particular event which is a movement in a particular country?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. When we are many in number, then we shall take politics also. Yes. First of all let there be perfect men. If there is no perfect men, the government will be imperfect. If there is perfect men, the government will be perfect.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I said that "Why you are bringing India? The whole world is in darkness." (to passerby:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Good morning.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's a verse in the Bhāgavatam, Prabhupāda. Yenātmā suprasīdati: "By rendering devotional service to the transcendental Lord, one becomes completely satisfied." So what happens? These people in material life, they come to the temples and they chant a little bit. But they find that the standard of pure devotional service is so high that they're not able to grasp it. They don't feel the complete satisfaction. They're still attached to the material world.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is compared with the jaundice disease. Jaundice disease, for jaundice, sugarcane is the medicine. But they taste sugarcane as bitter. Sugarcane... One who is suffering in jaundice will taste sugarcane as bitter. That is the test. So that is the medicine. So he has to take the sugarcane. And by taking, when he is cured he will find, "Oh, it is very sweet."
Prabhupāda: Not advanced consciousness, but he is conscious. He feels. He feels.
Harikeśa: It shocked a lot of people when they made the test of bringing a scissor to a plant, and they put some electrodes on it and they found that the plant was reacting with fear.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That machine has been discovered by Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose. He discovered this wireless telegram, radio. But Marconi took from him, and British government helped him.
Prabhupāda: Well, the difficulty is that we are talking of transmigration of the soul on scientific basis. But you are trying to give it a Hindu color. Why? To become... I have already explained. To become old man is equally applicable to the Hindus, Muslim, Christian. So why you say it is Hindu belief? It is not Hindu belief. It is a science. Why you are bringing "Hindu, Muslim, Christian"? I do not know why.
Indian man (4): The real question between this statement of Mr. Professor and you is that what is religion and what is science. Unless the nature of science and religion defined...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Science is applicable to everyone.
Prabhupāda: We shall do it otherwise. Why shall I please Kṛṣṇa? We are making scientific progress. What is the use of bringing God?
Devotee (2): Because we shall never become perfect or see the answer.
Prabhupāda: That is begging the question.
Indian man (3): For spreading the name of the Kṛṣṇa, in the world.
Prabhupāda: No, no. It is not the question of guru. Guru is doing all right. Why you should be so much anxious and feel obligation to please Kṛṣṇa?
Indian (4): Everybody has to serve somebody, so Kṛṣṇa is the reservoir of all pleasure and everything exists from Him. So instead of serving anybody, we should serve the Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: "That's all right. Without serving Kṛṣṇa, I am getting pleasure by drinking wine.
Prabhupāda: That is the difficulty. I will have to preach, bringing men from America and Europe. Nobody is coming here. Everyone is talking big, big.
Indian man (3): God has to go to burden this one also?
Prabhupāda: Eh? No, no. This is the difficulty, that whatever I am doing... Therefore I am very much in anxiety when the government says, "Now you go away. Your visa is finished."
Dr. Patel: From here?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Your visa from here?
Prabhupāda: Mine, no. My disciples! Dragging.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And now they're bringing prohibition.
Mahāṁsa: Where? Only in Madras there is now.
Prabhupāda: No, the government is now thinking of seriously, to stop. If the government simply prohibits these four things—meat-eating, and drinking, gambling, and illicit sex—the whole country will change immediately.
Mahāṁsa: A couple of months back there was an article in the papers that the chief minister of Andhra Pradesh is going to ban all gambling activities.
Prabhupāda: That is very good.
Harikeśa: So bringing it to a practical platform...
Prabhupāda: Practical means it will be done by Kṛṣṇa. Your only business is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. You cannot do anything. And as soon as you think that "I shall be able to do it," then you are a rascal. Immediately you are rascal.
Harikeśa: So only a fully surrendered soul can do everything perfectly.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Harikeśa: A fully surrendered soul is the only one who can do things perfectly.
Prabhupāda: He cannot do anything, even in his... Everything is to be done by Kṛṣṇa. But he has to apply his intelligence by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Even if he is intelligent, he cannot do anything.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi to another man) They are bringing.... There is a matter in cikitsā in Ayurveda. Svayāmbu. What is that called? So, Mr.... our er, Mr. Desai. Morarji...
Prabhupāda: He is drinking?
Dr. Patel: ...who lost his premiership of India, he is drinking his own urine.
Man: (indistinct) also.
Dr. Patel: Yes. He is drinking.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā. Why?
Dr. Patel: And look at him. He's so, I mean, so absolutely healthy. I mean it is, we should not laugh about it, but there is something right in it.
Prabhupāda: No, no. I don't laugh; I am surprised! (devotees laugh)
Keśavalāl Trivedi: He was thinking that he was bringing about some synthesization.
Acyutānanda: Yes.
Keśavalāl Trivedi: And that he was bringing...
Prabhupāda: (break) ...with this land also? No. (break) ...this building?
Mahāmṣa: I think it is a school, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) He does not know. He does not say that "certainly school." "It may be."
Harikeśa: Well, if I'm convinced it's a school, it's a school. I mean, the only thing that really matters is my perception of that thing.
Prabhupāda: You learn from him that it is school. Before that, you did not know. Therefore you have to learn. That experience is valuable, when you learn it.
Prabhupāda: I am not proselytizing. I am bringing him...
Acyutānanda: Unless they take to your religion...
Prabhupāda: ...to his original consciousness.
Acyutānanda: Unless they follow you, then you won't feed them. You are starving them until they...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. We shall go on. Chanting will also go on. Both things.
Acyutānanda: That was the article of the CARE, I think. They will give food, but you cannot use it to proselytize.
Prabhupāda: No, we give kṛṣṇa-prasādam, not food.
Indian man: He is bringing a same person.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that's all right. But why should we pay him more, the Krishnanagar. He wants that one...
Bhavānanda: Three.
Prabhupāda: One rupee, eight annas, three. Why should I pay? Then? If he..., you pay him three rupees, then they will also charge more.
Prabhupāda: Bringing our men from Dum Dum airport to our roof.
Bhavānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: There are at least four roofs like this.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. The people will see. All the pilgrims will see. Like the demigods flying in.
Prabhupāda: At least we can make a show—it is coming twice in a day and going twice in a day. And they will see that "Oh, so many people are coming."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You went there sometimes to take prasādam?
Prabhupāda: Yes, I became a guest. A gentleman was our tenant, and he gave me introduction letter to his brother-in-law. He was a pleader in Jagannātha Purī. So he received me very well. So he offered me a lunch, and I saw there was something, a small ball-like, in the pot, bowl. So I asked, "What is this?" He said, "It is meat." (laughs) He was eating meat, so he thought it is good reception, the guest is offered nice meat. So I said, "No, you... I never took meat. I never expected..." (break) Then "Never mind." Then I stopped eating there. At that time I was a boy. After appearing in my B.A. examination there was holiday, so I went to Jagannātha Purī in 1920 or something like that. So I was married in 1918. So some of the friends of my wife, they said that "Your husband now gone. He is not coming back." So after returning I understood she was crying. (laughs) So anyway, then I used to purchase prasādam in the market. They were bringing, and I was eating. I stayed for three, four days. That's all.
Sudāmā: Yes. Yes. One bird restaurant.
Prabhupāda: Yes, bird. They are coming from fifty miles to eat there. So eating is so strong. If you prepare nice foodstuff and the flavor goes to hundred miles away, then they will automatically come. This is practical. Only for satisfaction of the tongue, there were special buses bringing them, and they were coming, full load of bus, to eat that jungle birds.
Devotee (2): Jungle birds. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yes. The birds are available in the city, the fowls and cocks, but they wanted to eat the jungle birds. Just like there are men. They get sex pleasure at home; still, they go to the prostitutes. Very beautiful wife, but he goes to the prostitute. Taste is such bad.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) How they are bringing ruination. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). The blind men led by another blind man. It is not new. In the Bhāgavata therefore it is warned that "Don't follow hog philosophy." Viḍ-bhujāṁ ye. This kind of philosophy, that for sense gratification, laboring whole day and night, writing books, philosophizing and all these things, it is meant for the hogs, not for human being. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This kind of civilization is meant for the hogs. So they are exhibiting that they are no better than hog.
Prabhupāda: All enemies. Mother enemy, father enemy. And then? Ṛṇa-kartā pitā śatrur mātā śatrur dvicaraṇi, rūpavatī bhāryā śatruḥ. And if the wife is very beautiful, she is also enemy. And putraḥ śatrur apaṇḍitaḥ. And the son, if he's a rascal, he is enemy. That's all. This is family enemies. In the family nobody expects enemy, but Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says that these are enemies in the family. Ṛṇa-kartā pitā śatrur mātā śatrur dvicaraṇi, rūpavatī bhāryā śatruḥ. Now everyone is hankering after very beautiful wife, and Cāṇakya Paṇḍita said, "Then you are bringing one enemy." Just see what is the type of civilization. Because if you become too much attached to wife, then you'll never be able to go out of home and take sannyāsa.
Prabhupāda: He cannot complain. There is money; there is men; now you have to complete. You cannot say, "For this purpose, it..." No. (break) ...Mādhava Mahārāja, you can say that "Have you seen ever twenty thousand at a time?" And I am bringing daily twenty thousand. Twenty thousand dollars. Not money..., rupees, but dollars. "Have you seen twenty thousand dollars at a time?" (break) Detroit temple, you know? Jagadīśa? Are you going to negotiate.
Jagadīśa: Where is this?
Prabhupāda: Detroit, the temple.
Prabhupāda: Observe. You have got any pañjikā?
Jayapatākā: Yes. Just now bringing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So there is mention what to do.
Jayapatākā: (break) Bhaumī ekādaśī or Varāhadevir, āvirbhāva-janita upavāsa.
Prabhupāda: Today. Today.
Jayapatākā: Budhabāra, yes.
Prabhupāda: Both together, upavāsa.
Jayapatākā: Yes.
Acyutānanda: I felt uncomfortable. He was clicking his teeth and moving his hands and talking very quickly. It was very uncomfortable just to be in his presence. I was very nervous. He actually contradicted himself. I was saying we should be respected in all Hindu temples. He says, "Yes, you are Hindus." He says, "Jains and Buddhists, they are also Hindus." I said, "How is that?" He says, "Who is Buddha?" I said, "He is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa." He says, "No, aside from that, he is the son of a kṣatriya." I said, "Then you are bringing it back to birth again." And then he started groping for words and avoiding it. They want to make a unity of Hindus so that they can always sway elections, so that Mohammedan and Christians do not change the election.
Prabhupāda: And we want to make Mohammedans Hindus.
Prabhupāda: Rāvaṇa class man wants only Sītā, not Rāma. Rāma, they are condemning, these rascals, Suniti Chatterjee and others. But our mission is to keep Rāma and Sītā together. We are not satisfied that Rāma should remain alone and Sītā should be under the custody of Rāvaṇa. We can't... I don't want. Sītā must be released from the custody of Rāvaṇa. With opulence means we are bringing Sītā nearer, nearer, nearer... That is wanted. Otherwise, for a sannyāsī, what is the use of these big buildings? No. We want these big buildings for service of Rāma.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes, this is it. You are bringing in...
Madhudviṣa: Prabhupāda, you have said that in the tree, the Caitanya tree, there is many branches, but they all have to have the same taste.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Well, he has the taste.
Madhudviṣa: So therefore the essence of the philosophy must be there. And you have also said that the meaning of disciple means discipline, so the devotees have to be trained certain disciplines in their devotional life.
Prabhupāda: Discipline... Disciple means discipline. The word discipline comes from disciple, or disciple comes from discipline. So unless there is discipline, there is no question of disciple. This discipline must... That should be uniform. Otherwise, śiṣya... Śiṣya, the word śiṣya, it comes from the root, verb, śās-dhātu. Śās. Śās means ruling. From this word, sasana. Sasana means government. Śāstra. Śāstra means weapon, and śāstra, scripture, and sisya... These things have come from the one root śās-dhātu. So śās-dhātu means ruling under discipline. There is another English word, that "Obedience is the first law of discipline," or something. They say, "Obedience is the first law of discipline"? So I am right? "Obedience is..."? That is the...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's more or less what it is.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm bringing him to Taiwan.(?)
Prabhupāda: No, it is not difficult. Anyone can learn. Yes.
Lokanātha: (break) ...ing flute imitate Kṛṣṇa or what?
Prabhupāda: There is no flute. You say simply Kṛṣṇa plays flute and nobody plays?
Lokanātha: You said no playing flute.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Means in the morning.
Prabhupāda: So they are coming here?
Jayapatāka: Circumambulating the temple.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Guru-kṛpā: You once gave the example, Śrīla Prabhupāda, of taking your plane off the ground and then bringing it back to land again.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guru-kṛpā: You once gave the example that you take your plane to a destination, and you have to turn around and come back and start all over again, take off again.
Prabhupāda: There are so many. Dṛḍha-vrata. Bhajante mam dṛḍha-vrata. So we should be very strong-minded and continue our devotional service very strongly.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gargamuni's doing some transaction.
Prabhupāda: Gargamuni...
Jayatīrtha: I think he went to see about the electricity. He said that he was going to go early this morning to see about the electricity, why it is always going off.
Prabhupāda: Oh, Garga, garga means "big jug," and "money," full of money. Big jug full of coins.
Pañca-draviḍa: To the tree?
Prabhupāda: Yes, on the top, so high. There is no pipe. There is no pump, nothing. You do it. Instead of calling a plumber, you do something that the water will come in this tank.
Devotee (2): Well, they will say that the roots of the tree is bringing the water up.
Prabhupāda: That is a nonsense. You make such root and bring water here. Then your scientific knowledge will be proved. But you cannot do it. Can you do it? We are spending so much money for bringing water. Bring that root and bring water.
Madhudviṣa: We have done better. We can do it faster. Within, within a few minutes we can bring so much water here. You must...
Prabhupāda: But if I don't pay you, you'll starve. You'll never be able to do it if I don't pay you.
Prabhupāda: My father used to do that. He'd go to a vegetable vendor. He has got a big basket, and he'll say, "What do you want for all, the whole basket." So he is ready because he'll sit down so long, so at very cheap rate he'll give it. And it was not required in the family so much. My mother became very angry, that "You are bringing so many, so much vegetable, it is being spoiled." But he would purchase like that. If you give him in those days fifty rupees to go to the market, he will spend all the money and bring at home. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) We are prepared to spend. (break) ...from saintly person.
Prabhupāda: Chastity is being followed?
Guest (3): Yes. The church teaches it, and people who do not obey it are bringing condemnation upon themselves.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is my injunct..., that if.... The commandment is that women should be chaste.
Guest (3): Exactly.
Prabhupāda: And you should not kill. But all the Christians are killing.
Guest (3): Well...
Prabhupāda: And it is very hard to find out a woman chaste.
Hari-śauri: They're just bringing one more copy. They want one each. No, they want one copy each of Īśopaniṣad. So he's just waiting. He would like you to sign that one also, if you could.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why don't you read one of these? I think you'd be interested in some of the finer points in the philosophy.
Guest (2): How much would that be? We can't afford too...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It only costs four dollars.
Guest (2): We can't afford that. Something small.... Does it have a picture of him in there?
Hari-śauri: There's a picture of Prabhupāda in the back of that one, in the back. On the inside also there's just a few notes about him.
Prabhupāda: Paper is ripped. Another copy. (end)
Prabhupāda: That we can settle up by sitting together. Why there should be difference?
Hari-śauri: Just like in New Zealand, originally they split from ISKCON, and now gradually you are bringing them back to the same standard again, like now you're encouraging them to build a temple and install Deities. That means they have to come up to the required brahminical standard again. So why was there any need to go away in the first place? But still they won't cooperate. Now they'll have to do it their own way. This is..., that's their problem.
Prabhupāda: One thousand. No, don't tear. It is written there, "One thousand."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. There's fifties and twenties. There's one fifty note, one hundred notes, twenty notes...
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Usually, when they write like this, they're the same denomination.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, you can count, yes.
Prabhupāda: It will be automatically advertised. When people will say, "Oh, there is a nice ISKCON restaurant, and it is so cheap and so nice," people will come. Just like in our Vṛndāvana temple, we don't advertise. Of course, that's.... People are coming by thousands. I thought that so long distance from the city, nobody will come. But Balarāma is so powerful, He's bringing: "Come out here." (laughter) Otherwise, I was.... What is that? Plowing? Yamunā was threatened.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, Balarāma.
Prabhupāda: And the whole Kuru dynasty was threatened.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good class of people are coming to the restaurant, businessmen, like that.
Prabhupāda: And there is book display?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. Oh, yes, there's a book display.
Prabhupāda: They are purchasing book also?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They give them a Back to Godhead, complimentary copy...
Prabhupāda: Ācchā.
Prabhupāda: This is our disease. When we're talking of spiritual world, we are bringing material thoughts. To bring coal in Sheffield. What is called. Sheffield? There are many coal mines?
Hari-śauri: To bring coals to Newcastle.
Prabhupāda: Yes, like that. Why should you bring your material ideas to the spiritual world? There is no relativity. Everything absolute.
Hṛdayānanda: Prahlāda Mahārāja has said that their solution is bringing more problem.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In order to solve one problem, more problems.
Dr. Wolfe: Prabhupāda, am I right when I say the only solution is a change of consciousness?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real solution. So we shall now go?
Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Everyone tries. That is not a particular job for you. Everyone is trying; the cats and dogs, they are also trying. The cat also very much anxious to give protection to the cubs, innocent, helpless. The dog also giving. The birds, they're bringing food for the offspring, and as soon as the mother comes, they become very much engladdened, "Oh, here is food, here is food." And they, with the mouth, they.... So this kind of sentiment is there even in the cats, dogs, animals, birds, beasts. That is natural. But we do not know how to do actual welfare activity. Somebody's engaged with his family. Somebody is engaged with his own body. Somebody.... This is only development of consciousness. The animals, they are interested with the body, himself. The human being, they are interested with the extension of the body. Just like I am alone now. Now when I become, you young men, then I have got my wife, then my interest is also for my wife. The wife's interest is for the husband. In this way, children, then interest extended, husband, wife, children. Then, this is family-wise.
Prabhupāda: Everyone in government service, at least it is to be supposed they are all nasty men. Here also, why not? The other day the custom officer, unnecessary. Unnecessarily. He is opening the snuff box, this box, that box. Unnecessarily. Not a gentleman. It is stated there, "snuff," and he is bringing knife to open.
Jagadīśa: Harassment.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Rājanyaiḥ, dasyu-dharma. Simply wanting some bribe. They are in power. And that will increase. It will be impossible to deal with. Now it is already. In India, any work you want to be done by government, unless you bribe.... In Africa also. The situation is becoming very dangerous. That Mullik's Thakur, where he...?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In Calcutta, yes.
Prabhupāda: The state is in the management of official trustee. And this trustee in charge of the trust board men, they give us so much trouble and exploit the position for his personal profit. I have seen. Horrible. For instance, I can give you, if in some property there is some repair, it will cost you, say, one hundred rupees. And they'll give it to a contractor, and the contractor will present a bill, twelve hundred rupees. And he'll pass. And the contractor will be given, say, two hundred rupees, and balance he'll take. I have seen.
Prabhupāda: So he has got his doctorate?
Viśvakarmā: Yes. He's bringing one other professor with him. I can't remember his name. He's rather important. He just got a post at Oxford University, has been granted, er, uh, and from Oxford they've asked him to come from Toronto to there. So he'll also be with Professor O'Connell.
Satsvarūpa: This is Professor Shivaram from McMaster University.
Prabhupāda: I think I saw you quite before this. Thank you. But I.... (devotee or Indian introduces several people, including Mr. and Mrs. Mukherjee) Mrs. Mukherjee, you're also teacher here?
Indian lady: No, I am a student.
Prabhupāda: Student.
Indian man: They're all from Bengal.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (converses with woman in Bengali, mentions Gauḍīya Maṭha) So what I was talking just now about this motorcar race?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Daily night. And he was shocked. One of my Gauḍīya Maṭha Godbrothers, big, he became the head of this Bhag Bazaar Gauḍīya Maṭha. So his wife was debauched, and she was bringing new paramour, and the child protested.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: New?
Prabhupāda: Paramour. And the boy, he was ten years or twelve years old, he could understand: "Who is this man?" So he protested and said, "I shall tell all these things to my father." And he was killed.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The boy was killed?
Prabhupāda: By the mother.
Hari-śauri: She murdered him?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Killed means given poison. And the father, that is, my Godbrother, seeing this, he also took poison. This is the end of Gauḍīya Maṭha scandal. He was also one of the trustees. This Tīrtha Mahārāja was a trustee, and another Godbrother and this man. In the beginning, they were made trustees. In the beginning, Prabhupāda was to undergo surgical operation. So he was a little nervous, that "I may die." So he made a scrap paper, that "In case I die, these three disciples will be trustees of the Gauḍīya Maṭha Institute." That's all. So this Kuñja Bābu kept this. There are many long histories. So one of the so-called trustees was this Vāsudeva. So he died, his end was like this.
Prabhupāda: This is transmigration. As soon as the situation... He is to accept a dog's body. Now a dog is having sex, and the mixture of the two secretions creates a favorable situation, and the living entity is there, and he gets a dog's body. This is the truth. He is destined to get a dog's body. So he's taking the opportunity that "Here is a suitable... " Nature is bringing him. If here it is refused, then he'll go to another place. Therefore contraceptive method is sinful, going against the law of... The situation is created for getting the body by another living entity, but he is transgressing. Then he'll be punished. So many subtle things are there. What do they know? Read it.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "It is explained in the Second Chapter that the living entity is transmigrating from one body to another just as one changes dress."
Prabhupāda: This is transmigrating. He's put into this circumstances, so he gets this body. (break) ...in our society, he's living in a room, but if he has got some difficulty, he says... Then the authority gives him another room, "All right, you go there." This is transmigration. He must get a place according to his capacity, according to his quality.
Prabhupāda: Kṣayāya, kṣayāya means all for ruination, bringing ruin, ruination. So save them from ruination. Actually I've seen in New York, some quarter so nasty. In London also, so nasty. Disaster. So many storefront, lying vacant houses. I was, when I had no business, I was loitering to see the city. Hellish condition. They said it was risky, but I did not know that it was risky. One electrician, he was my friend, "Oh, Swamiji, you are going in those quarters? It is not for you, don't." "Oh, I do not care. What I have got they will take from me?" So I was loitering in New York City. So many nasty quarters. London also. So many houses vacant.
Kulādri: There is more chance of being killed in New York City than in the jungle.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They warned me not to go to the Central Park in the evening. They say at night nobody goes there.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So there's no question then, as he says, of bringing new smṛtis which would come into being if someone would give them sanction and authority. The position as you...
Prabhupāda: But there cannot be new smṛtis. We are giving the sanction to Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra because it is already there in the śruti. But for this time it is suitable. I am taking a certain type of medicine in the evening, it is already recommended by the physician. I am not doing it whimsically. So whimsically you cannot change. It must have reference to the śruti-smṛti-purāṇadi (BRS 1.2.101).
Prabhupāda: It is not proselytization. Proselytization has no meaning. To bring one to the real understanding. Kṛṣṇa says that mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). All living entities are His part and parcel. He claims, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). In all forms of life, as many living entities are there, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ, I am the seed-giving father. So the natural position is that every living entity, not only human being, but also animals, plants, everyone... So why not Indian, American, or Czechoslavakian, everyone is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa? So it not the process of proselytizing to convince the idea. It is actually bringing them to their real position, that they're all part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. It is not artificial proselytization that "You are Christian, now you are Hindu." Or "You are Hindu, now you are Christian." "You are a sweeper, now you are harijana." It is not like that. It is actually bringing him to his own position, part and parcel of God. It is not... Proselytization will not stand. When one comes to the real understanding of his position, then that will continue. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that. Bringing one to the original position. He's in diseased condition, he's thinking otherwise than servant of Kṛṣṇa. Now this movement is trying to bring everyone to the position that he is eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. It is not a rubberstamp proselytization that "You are Hindu, now you are Christian." Or "You are Christian, now are Hindu." So if he does not know what is his position by simply stamping that he is Hindu or Muslim or Christian, what benefit he will derive?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The same ignorance.
Prabhupāda: Cold water.
Hari-śauri: They are bringing some hot milk, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Vipina: Also something interesting about this water, Prabhupāda. It's all natural spring water, it's not city water. Underground water, fresh water.
Rūpānuga: It's quiet here.
Prabhupāda: Nice.
Vṛṣākapi: There's a swimming pool here, Prabhupāda. You have a garden by the pool; you can take your massage there.
Prabhupāda: This is your own house? What you have paid for it?
Rūpānuga: Well, now we are leasing with option to buy. We have ten-year lease, we can purchase anytime before ten years.
Prabhupāda: Price is fixed?
Rūpānuga: Six hundred fifty thousand. But all money paid for rent goes toward purchase.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Prabhupāda: That is also imagination. Again you are bringing imagination, speculation.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So actually it's very subtle and critical.
Prabhupāda: As soon as you bring your imaginations, they'll bring their own imagination. "Perhaps," "It may be," they say
Rūpānuga: Our imagination is as good as your imagination.
Prabhupāda: We are to take the Vedic injunction axiomatic.
Dr. Sukla: Is there any plan of bringing those things out, publishing them, his poems and translations?
Prabhupāda: It is not for ordinary. Cāṇḍīdāsa, Vidyāpati. Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to discuss Jayadeva's books, Vidyāpati's books, very confidentially amongst a few devotees. Not publicly.
Dr. Sukla: So you think they might be misused.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they are being misused. They take Kṛṣṇa as debauch. They do not understand. Therefore the Kṛṣṇa's līlā with the gopīs, they are described in the Tenth Canto. That is also middle of Tenth Canto, and nine cantos required to understand Kṛṣṇa, beginning with janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). So that is the Absolute Truth. These things should be discussed in the beginning. Then when one is fully convinced that Kṛṣṇa has nothing to do with this material world, as Śaṅkarācārya said, nārāyaṇaḥ para avyaktāt, avyaktāt anna sambhava. This material world is a production... (break) It has to be purified. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). When it is nirmalam, then it is first-class. The first process is nirmalam. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam, arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyam (SB 7.5.23). This process is first-class. Not all of a sudden jump over. This literature, that is (indistinct), that should be kept in reserve for persons who are already liberated. Otherwise it will be misunderstood.
Prabhupāda: No, no, why you think like that? You are not authority.
Guest (4): I merely say that I do. I don't say that I'm right to do so. I don't say why, I simply do.
Prabhupāda: This is due to our limited knowledge. Because I am a person, I have got my limited knowledge. I am thinking of God, "If God is a person, then He has limited knowledge." That means I am bringing God to my level. That is my defect. We say God is all-powerful, almighty, still He cannot become a person. Why do you think that? If He is almighty, He can become person. Then why do you deny it?
Guest (4): I don't.
Prabhupāda: Then there is no question, you see.
Prabhupāda: And there is no man. Just see the foolishness. The same logic, "No, no, I am not stealing." Who asked that you are stealing? He asked for the sound, but he disclosed. It is like that. Why they are bringing Arizona?
Rūpānuga: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you catch them red-handed.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, that I can do. It is like that. Who asked them to speak of Arizona? You are speaking of Arizona. "No, no, I am not stealing." (laughter) It is like that. They could have mentioned other places.
Rūpānuga: Arizona is convenient.
Prabhupāda: That means they are working in Arizona. The mind is there. Arizona-minded because they are working in Arizona, so they are disclosing mind.
Prabhupāda: Then why they bother about bringing rock from there?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: To investigate more.
Prabhupāda: What is investigation? Simply bluff.
Hari-śauri: Similar rocks are available here, because the same rock was taken from here.
Prabhupāda: If the rock is the same, so why not living beings there?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They claim there is no atmosphere.
Prabhupāda: No, if the atmosphere is different, the rock must be different. The sun must be different. The atmosphere is different, but the rock sand is the same? They have to believe that? Everything should be different.
Prabhupāda: That machine means, their machine. Again you are bringing the same argument. What is value of machine? The machine is made by a cheater. Imperfect senses, how it is perfect?
Devotee (1): But some machines work, though, like the radio, the TV...
Prabhupāda: Work to some extent, that much credit you can take.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, to some extent that is also you're saying...
Prabhupāda: To some extent is, everyone accepts.
Mr. Boyd: Barbara. I had the privilege of going to India a month ago and bringing her home, and I met two of your...
Prabhupāda: She is in India?
Mr. Boyd: Yes, she was at Vṛndāvana, and she'd been there for about three months. She contracted malaria, I guess, and was not doing too well, and we got concerned. So we went down to see how she was. She was due to go back to Germany, so we brought her back here and got her back in shape, I guess, and sent her back to Germany. And while we were there I met one of your friends, I guess, a fellow named Mr. Dubhai?
Prabhupāda: Dubhai, yes, in Vṛndāvana.
Guest (1): ...what thought there is in bringing the temple and the farm closer together as one entity rather than two?
Prabhupāda: Wherever we have got farm, we construct a temple also. Explain.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The... Just like we have so many farming communities. Prabhupāda has mentioned that wherever our farm is... Actually we're not farmers.
Guest (1): No?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda is trying to create a class of intelligent men, brāhmaṇas. Brāhmaṇa is the head...
Prabhupāda: First class.
Prabhupāda: They speak all... That the egg will take millions of years and the chicken is bringing within five days. So why these rascals do not transfer their doctorate title to the chicken (laughter) instead of bluffing other rascals that "We are doctorate"? They should be ashamed to keep their doctorate. "Now let us transfer to the chicken; within five days there is life." Huh? What do you think? Am I right or wrong?
Hari-śauri: I am sure you are right.
Prabhupāda: The chicken is bringing from the egg life within five days, and they are calculating millions of years. Such rascals are passing as scientists. If chemical is the basis of life, just make some experiment, take the chemical and make a small egg and put into the incubator and bring life. Why they do not, hmm? It will take millions of years, and the chicken is bringing within five days?
Bali-mardana: They say in a few years they will do it.
Prabhupāda: Why few years? Rascaldom. Dr. Chicken is doing in five days, so why you enjoy this title? You give up. You be ashamed. You are shameless, therefore you are talking all this nonsense. You have no human sense also.
answer.
Prabhupāda: That means that you are a rascal. You admit that you are a rascal. We see one sparrow bringing within few days, life. So many birds, they are bringing life within few days.
Rāmeśvara: They say there are certain chemicals in the body.
Prabhupāda: All right, you rascal, big chemist, you combine these chemicals and bring life. Why do you not do that? Simply talking millions and trillions of years just to bluff other rascals. You are a rascal and you are bluffing other rascals. That is your business, and getting high salary, that's all.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even they can take a dead body, there's no need to manufacture the body, and try and put life back into it.
Prabhupāda: Yes, give him some chemicals. So many dead bodies are being wasted. Give some chemical and let them come back in life.
Rāmeśvara: This is a photograph of what takes place in India every year. It's a traditional festival in India, we are bringing it to New York. We've got our permits and everything.
Prabhupāda: We have already got in San Francisco, in Chicago...
Rāmeśvara: Philadelphia.
Prabhupāda: In Philadelphia.
Rāmeśvara: In London.
Prabhupāda: London.
Sudāmā: Melbourne.
Prabhupāda: Melbourne.
Hari-śauri: Paris we're beginning also.
Prabhupāda: This year?
Hari-śauri: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: First year Paris.
Hari-śauri: This is our festivals that we've begun in the West based on the one on the front there.
Prabhupāda: You can take that book.
Prabhupāda: Why we are bringing Hindu and Muslim view?
Interviewer: Well, O.K., I take that back then. I take that back. Anyway, what you're saying is that this life is a jail and that really the goal is another life.
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.
Interviewer: Right? I mean that this life is an evil prison.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, now you have understood. This is not a desirable life, to live in the jail, conditioned.
Interviewer: Well in other words, in a sense that is to reject or at least to repudiate this life, this world.
Prabhupāda: Not repudiate, to understand.
Prabhupāda: And you are journalist, you are not expected to become a motor mechanic or a medical man. But your function is also required in the society. Similarly, the Vedic society was divided into different sections. That is called varṇāśrama-four varṇas, four āśramas. That is very scientific. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement includes this system of division of society. It is perfect society. Therefore we are trying to introduce the varṇāśrama system, although it is very difficult nowadays. But if one becomes a devotee, which is above varṇāśrama-dharma, then the purpose is solved. In this age, although varṇāśrama-dharma is very scientific, and Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement includes this, but we are mostly trying to get to the topmost part of varṇāśrama, sannyāsa, or above that. That means Vaiṣṇava. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). One can immediately transcend the jurisdiction of three modes of material nature if he engages himself in the devotional service of the Lord.
So actually this varṇāśrama system is meant for bringing the man in the lower status of life to the higher status of life. It doesn't matter one is born in a low-grade family. That is also said by Kṛṣṇa: māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Pāpa-yoni, lower grade.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...pure devotee will also come here and therefore he's (indistinct) bringing for you.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Caitanya Mahāprabhu goes with His associates, He does not go alone. Sa-pārṣadam. Sāṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam.
There is saṅkīrtana-yajña, everything will improve very gradually. (break) Now the government has not given any opposition. That is very good. In India, our own government is giving little opposition.
Bali-mardana: It's good for bringing up gas.
Prabhupāda: From my childhood I liked this lemonade. I think it was cost, in our childhood, three paisa.
Bali-mardana: Now I think in India it costs one rupee.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One rupee, twenty paisa. Of course, you get forty paisa back for the bottle, but it's between sixty-five and eighty paisa after you get your money back. When we were travelling in Bhopal, we traveled there in the months of May and June. It was very hot. We were drinking seven bottle a day, every hour. Every hour.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Lemonade.
Gurudāsa: I was told there was another procession last night bringing the car back, and all the night persons-there's a different whole segment of the city, people who come at night...
Devotee: Bums.
Gurudāsa: ...who stay up all night. And they were there, hundreds of people following the car back in the nighttime.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It took about seven hours to bring the carts back. All night they worked. Jayānanda was slaving out there, and Ādi-keśava Swami. Ādi-keśava finally got back at five in the morning, collapsed on the carts, he was exhausted.
Prabhupāda: They should be given some recommendations(?) in writing.
Prabhupāda: ...difference between a śūdra and brāhmaṇa. A śūdra can be misled at any moment. That is stated in... Strī śūdra. Woman and śūdra on the same class. You can mislead them by high talkings: "Oh, I am coming from Indian prince." They come here, marry some European, and go to India and then engage him (her) for collecting water in bucket. One Muhammadan crewman, a vagabond, he bluffed one girl that "I am coming from Muhammadan prince family." Then she married, and she went to Allahabad, and she was given borakhā and she was living in a hut, and then she was bringing water from the street. She wrote a letter to the Viceroy that "This is my position." Then police came and rescued her and sent her. (break)
Gurudāsa: ...Pañca-tantra about a jackal who poses as a king. He has blue dye on, so they think he's special, but when he heard other jackals, all he could do was howl, and he was exposed. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?
Bali-mardana: He's here, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Now there should be one rule that unless they are husband-wife, man and woman should not worship together.
Prabhupāda: Still, that is some protection. The husband is there. The woman means her husband must be there. Which one? Our car?
Hari-śauri: He's bringing it. He's bringing it up to this road here, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...dogs and cats.
Prabhupāda: Not cows.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no, cows are meant for eating, for food. It's all about dogs.
Rāmeśvara: So no woman who is married should work with the Deities unless her husband is right there? What if the husband is a book distributor? (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That walking place?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Why are you bringing Christian?
Mike Robinson: Well, I thought you quoted Christianity. But as far as the Christian faith is concerned, don't they quote their scriptures?
Prabhupāda: Then it is misleading. As soon as you say that "We Christians, we believe," then it is misbelief. It is not scientific.
Mike Robinson: Well how does it become scientific?
Prabhupāda: Scientific because the animal eats, you eat. The animal sleeps, you sleep. The animals have sex, you have sex. The animal defends, you also defend. Then where is the difference between you and the animal? Why do you say there is no soul?
Hari-śauri: One of the devotees in America. Some man came with his pet dog. So in America they tie up the dogs outside the restaurant, so he did that and he went in. And then he pointed, he showed the doorman his dog, meaning that he was liable to look after him. So after he'd eaten his meal he went out and his dog was gone. So after some inquiry they found out that when he showed the doorman the dog, he misunderstood and thought that he wanted to eat it, that he was bringing his lunch with him, so he took the dog and killed it and served him. He ate his dog.
Jayatīrtha: A local policeman said that in England there are more laws protecting the dogs than there are protecting the children. If you beat your children, then no problem. If you beat your dog, immediately they'll come arrest you.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Jayatīrtha: Yes.
Bhagavān: I've seen in India, they are bringing foreign dogs.
Jayatīrtha: Even that one gosvāmī in Vṛndāvana, he has got French dogs.
Prabhupāda: That poodles. He's rascal. And such a fool, "Jagat-guru." So you go.
Prabhupāda: Huh? I never said that. Why you are bringing that question? I said the girls should be. Cooking is not boy's business. But cooking is not a very difficult art. If they want, the boys can... (coughs) There are so many, in the Bhakti-rasāmṛta sindhu it is stated, how Rādhārāṇī was qualified. So these things should be taught to the girls. If the girls are taught to give service to the husband to the greatest satisfaction, there will be no disagreement.
Prabhupāda: And they will advertise that these descriptions in the śāstras, they are all mythology. Of course, this kind of bluffing cannot go because suppose this Mars expedition becomes a failure, like that, the same... It will be failure. So next time, if they propose, I think people will be hesitant to allow them to. Simply bringing people rocks and sands, without any utility, after spending so much money. How long they can repeat this, "Yes, we went to this planet, rocks. We went to this-rocks." So we see variety. Is the so many luminaries, simply rocks and sands? The moon is full of rocks and it's so illuminating? Whole universe is illuminated so nice, moonshine. So many stars illuminating and they're rocks and sand? We have to believe it?
Jñānagamya: They are saying there is life on Mars. They are seeing microbes, small little living entities, they are detecting these with their machines. So they are seeing, there is some life.
Prabhupāda: Microbes?
Jñānagamya: Microbe, you know, like microscopic...
Prabhupāda: Why they can see only microbes? Not a fully grown up human being.
Prabhupāda: They cannot come here?
Nandarāṇī: This, it takes them almost two hours to come from the city to here, so now they are coming here because on Janmāṣṭamī all thirty of them are putting on a play of Kṛṣṇa's birth from your Kṛṣṇa book. So starting Sunday until the 18th, every day I am bringing them here. I'm renting a minibus and getting them from city and bringing them here for play practice. Then on Janmāṣṭamī we are having four hundred guests from the Indian community, and the children are putting on this "Birth of Kṛṣṇa" play, and they learn to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and play the karatālas. These children are actually like American children; they have no touch with their culture. Most of them don't know Kṛṣṇa from anyone else. So now I've taught them, just like we had to teach American children. And they like it very much. So they are doing the plays...
Prabhupāda: The parents also like it.
Hari-śauri: That's one thing that they said they were going to do, actually. They had some Russian astronauts and some American astronauts, and they had them meet in space, and then they joined their spaceships together and then they had a meal together and did some experiments, and then they left again. So that was very much acclaimed as bringing the two nations closer together.
Prabhupāda: We are afraid of these two classes of rascals. "Afraid of" means we don't want their association. It is very dangerous.
Pradyumna: You said in the Bhāgavatam just that, that we are afraid of the materialistic men.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Personally I feel, I have several times told. For a devotee to live with nondevotees is so obnoxious and troublesome, it is sometimes mentioned, better to remain within a cage surrounded by fire, and still, don't remain with nondevotees. You prefer to live within a cage surrounded by fire. That living is preferable than to live with this nondevotee class.
Mrs. Sahani: Knowledge is there in all the religions.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Religion is now misunderstood. Religion is described in the dictionary, "a faith." So faith..., your faith may be something, my faith may be something, that is not religion. Religion is described in the Vedic literature, "the law given by God." That is religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). So, just like law means the order given by the state, similarly, religion means the order given by God. So if you do not know what is God, what is His order, then what is your religion? Do you believe it or not? If you do not know what is God, if you do not know what is His word or what is His order, then where is your religion? If you do not know what is the government and if you do not know what is the government's order, then where is the question of law-abiding? Religion means, according to Vedic description.... Just like Kṛṣṇa said, mām ekām śaraṇaṁ vraja. This is religion. Sarva-dharmān parityajya: (BG 18.66) "Give up all this nonsense. Surrender unto Me." So what is the objection? Religion is one, surrender to God. So where is the objection? And God says that "You surrender to Me." So where is the objection? Religion cannot be two. Religion is one, surrender to God. If I say, "You are Muslim, you surrender to God, " do you have any objection? If I say to Christian, "You surrender to God," will he have any objection? Therefore religion is one; there cannot be two religions. Why you are bringing other religions? There is no question of other religions. Religion is one.
Hari-śauri: He's bringing it.
Prabhupāda: You cannot expect favorable situation. It is not possible. When I came in America, I never expected any favorable situation. I wrote that poetry in disappointment, that "Who will accept this?" That is the position. By Kṛṣṇa's grace, gradually it will become a favorable situation, but don't expect any favorable situation. You have to handle unfavorable situation and make favorable situation to preach. That is preaching. Any business. (to devotee fanning:) Just on the head. Just see, there is flies. So Nityānanda Prabhu, He went to preach to Jagāi-Mādhāi. There was no favorable situation. They were drunkards. They caused injury on the body of Nityānanda Prabhu. So this is preaching with only unfavorable situation. You cannot expect favorable situation. And still you have to preach. That is preaching. They will speak like madmen, so many things. They are mad, after all. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). They have no sense. All materialistic persons are madmen. Still, by the order of superior, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, we have to do this preaching work. Actually, the American boys are fighting against so many unfavorable situations. They are sometimes beaten in the airport, you know that? Still they are preaching; that is preaching, that is preaching. "The unfavorable situation, so let me give it up," that is not preaching. Yes, we must know that there is unfavorable situation, still I have to. That depends on your brain, how to tackle. You cannot expect favorable situation.
Prabhupāda: That you again "if." You are bringing some condition. For the present time, sitting very peacefully and haven't got to work. Why you are insisting me to work? If this is the goal, to sit peacefully and eat, I'm doing that.
Hari-śauri: But I want more than that; it's boring. I want more.
Prabhupāda: Boring?
Hari-śauri: It's very boring just to sit and eat all the time.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that boring for the rascal. Otherwise, one who is intelligent, he's enjoying.
Harikeśa: Yes, but I mean definitely it will get cold. There's no question that "maybe if." It definitely it will get cold.
Prabhupāda: Cold you will get both ways, whether you work or not.
Prabhupāda: Per day. So there is no scarcity of money. A business started with forty rupees bringing six lakhs daily, it is not ordinary business.
Indian man: Most extraordinary. Everybody wondering that only, how it has been done.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is giving. I never thought my books will be sold as much. I never... Neither in the history of human society religious books sell six lakhs of rupees daily.
Indian man: It has never happened.
Prabhupāda: And it is selling where? Where they are not Hindus.
Prabhupāda: That is the Constitution. But that is going to be changed?
Indian man (2): No that clause is not proposed to be changed. The changes which she is bringing in decision, that clause at least is not proposed to be changed. The last proposition she made...
Indian man (1): We were surprised as usual.
Indian man (3): There were some questions in Parliament about her.
Indian man (1): Yes, it came in the Hindu...
Prabhupāda: Let them inquire. Our... Everything is open secret. We are selling books throughout the whole world to the extent of six lakhs rupees per day. So money is coming from Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: So where is the puffed rice? Somebody is bringing it?
Harikeśa: Pālikā is...
Prabhupāda: Why Pālikā, huh?
Harikeśa: Pālikā is in the kitchen taking care of it.
Prabhupāda: No, bring it to... Why you making there, puffed rice? There is... It is too late now. (long pause) So what she is doing?
Harikeśa: I will check.
Mahāṁśa: She is cooking prasāda.
Prabhupāda: Cooking? What she is cooking?
Mahāṁśa: Only puffed rice.
Prabhupāda: Vedas, when Lord Buddha wanted stop animal killing, these rascals came with Vedas. "Vedas there is sacrifice, there is animal killing." So he thought that these rascals will create botheration. By bringing Vedas, there is... He said, "I don't care for it."
Similarly, these rascals are giving evidence of Rūpa Gosvāmī's advice, that "Here is Rādhā-kuṇḍa..." But whether you have followed other things.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I am bringing before you, before probing, you try to understand what is our income. We are selling these books six lakhs rupees daily, and we are spending it fifty percent for reprinting the books and fifty percent for expanding temples all over the world. This is our activities. Now you probe it or understand it.
Interviewer (3): This is the only source of revenue for the society?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: I'm writing one letter to the governor that I work hard, I print my books and they are selling, and if I bring the money to construct temple, why people are envious? What is the wrong there? Rather, I should be encouraged that I am bringing so much money in India, foreign exchange, by my hard labor. So why they are envious? Why... I have sent this to the governor.
Jayapatākā: To the governor?
Prabhupāda: Governor, Mr. Chandra Reddy. "Why, wherefrom they are getting money, where, why?" That is my very, very hard labor, that's all. Is it wrong if a man works hard and gets money in foreign country and bring in India?
Gargamuni: I think they cannot believe that a sādhu could have so much money from selling books.
Prabhupāda: That may be beyond their dream, but I am not so-called sādhu. I am trying to execute the orders of my Guru Mahārāja, predecessor. I am not a so-called sādhu, taking a saffron robe, begging for fulfilling the belly.
Indian man: What is the mystery in that case of universe or divine bringing up this life?
Prabhupāda: Bringing up this life? What is the mystery to bringing one to the criminal court? What is the mystery?
Indian man: Karma.
Indian man: But we must be some start somewhere. Is it not so?
Prabhupāda: Start means, just like what is the starting point of a criminal? He wants to violate the laws and starting, criminal. You can stop it immediately and you can start immediately. It depends on you. If you violate the law, you become criminal. If you don't violate, remain in your own position. This is the start. As soon as you defy God and you try to become independent, then the starting is there immediately. And again when you surrender, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). Then you stop. So stopping and starting is in your hand. That is karma. It is not that starting is done by somebody else. You start your business. And you stop it.
Indian man: This is practical pracāra, giving books.
Prabhupāda: No librarian, no university, no scholar, no professor is refusing. As soon as we go, "Oh, yes, bring. We shall take." So I am bringing money from the foreign countries by my selling books, and they are criticizing me that I am C.I.A. Just see the fun. And there is nobody to give me protection.
Indian man: Not Lord giving protection? (laughter)
Prabhupāda: No, Lord, giving, giving. That I am confident. Because they are envious, "How Bhaktivedanta Swami is getting so much money? He's paying crores and crores. There must be some political..." As they are getting from Russia. But actually, I am selling. I am working night, writing these books, and these boys are helping me to sell it. I am getting enough money to spend it. What is my fault? For Kṛṣṇa's sake we have sacrificed everything, our life and everything and Kṛṣṇa is giving us money and we are spending it and they are criticizing in the Parliament. This is my misfortune. I don't take it as misfortune. Because asuras are always there. Even Kṛṣṇa's time.
Prabhupāda: One thing, general thing, that I am writing books and selling in foreign countries and I'm bringing the money here. It is for India's sake(?).
Krishna Modi: But somebody should tell in the House all these things.
Prabhupāda: You can tell.
Krishna Modi: That is the thing only. That is the point of Mr. Brahmānanda Reddy also. Yesterday he told me...
Prabhupāda: This is the important point that my books are sold daily sixty thousand dollars all over the world. I have made the Trust so all the collections should be divided fifty percent for constructing temple and fifty percent for reprinting books. So we don't take a paisa profit. So far as an author, they are selling sixty thousand dollars. And even if I would have taken ten percent royalty then it would have been six thousand dollars.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda is bringing in more foreign exchange than even big business export concerns.
Prabhupāda: I'm bringing regularly not less than ten lakhs of rupees per month.
Krishna Modi: Sending to India. We must tell them all these things.
Prabhupāda: You tell.
Krishna Modi: That is the thing. This is the Brahmānanda... I already told yesterday that some members must be briefed and they must tell something so that my hands may be strengthened and so that I may...
Prabhupāda: It is a great credit that I am selling my books and bringing ten lakhs of rupees from foreign country in India.
Krishna Modi: That we will speak. And his mind is very clear. Brahmānanda his mind is very clear, very clear, and he is appreciating. And he is in our favor 100%.
Prabhupāda: Even not in our favor. I am working hard in foreign countries and bringing money to India. You should give us some credit. But instead of giving credit, I am being criticized in the Parliament.
Prabhupāda: Now who has converted so many of... This is one party. (refers to kīrtana going on nearby) Hundreds of parties like this, they are engaged in kīrtana. India government is sending so many professional dancers by paying them from the cultural department and what I am getting? Not a single farthing. And still I am bringing.
Krishna Modi: Ah, Indian culture is... You... Nobody has done these things.
Prabhupāda: The Ratha-yātrā festival, where is?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, the news of Ratha-yātrā. "New York Celebrates Festival of Chariots." Even at the U.N. conference we were there. They welcomed Vedic... We presented a Vedic reply to the U.N. conference.
Prabhupāda: Wherever possible we are presenting Vedic culture, Indian culture. And I have no support from the government.
Prabhupāda: And by this collection, from this collection, we are bringing money in India. We are bringing money in India not less than ten lakhs of rupees per month. Our buildings and temples are going on in Bombay, in Vṛndāvana, in Navadvīpa. So we have got at least ten lakhs of rupees expenditure for these temples, and that I am bringing from foreign countries. So if by laboring hard at night in this dictaphone, I write books and I sell them in the foreign countries and I bring the money here for spending in India, do you think it is faulty?
Interviewer: One American professor who is a teacher of Hinduism there, in some of the universities you mentioned, she said, I asked him a question about ISKCON, and she said, "Well this thing is creating a bad impression in the sense that people are accosted everywhere, in the streets, on the airport, at the bus stand. They accost you and force you to buy their literature, to buy their books. And this is creating a revulsion.
Prabhupāda: So why you are forced? Suppose as preaching work... In our childhood we saw the Christian preachers were also standing on the road. So if we stand on the road and preach and sell our books what is the fault?
Interviewer: I put that. He said you are doing what the Christian... (break)
Prabhupāda: No. The government allowed them, the Christian people. The government is allowing us also. Then where is the fault?
Prabhupāda: Similarly in business also, they appointed brokers, that I am bringing cloth from Manchester and if you can sell you'll get so much commission. So without any investment...
Haṁsadūta: They were in business.
Prabhupāda: A broker club business. So the businessmen, the zamindars, and gradually they started their factories, railways, in this way they started. And they are big politicians, so it is their management. And they failed when things were mismanaged. First of all they created friendship, and later on when they were in power, they created enmity. Then it is failed.
Dr. Kneupper: We have many of them in our library...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So there is knowledge. If people kindly take it everything will be solved. But they have stubbornly denied, "No God." And I am stubbornly fighting, "Yes, there is God." That is the... Now the whole America is combining to fight against me, opposition, that "This man is brainwashing, controlling the mind, and our children are kidnapped." They are bringing these charges against us. Just like you have come. Have I kidnapped you?
Dr. Kneupper: Oh, no.
Prabhupāda: But these rascals say that I have kidnapped their children.
Indian man (2): But judgment has been taken.
Prabhupāda: There must be judgment, but people have become so rascal. So I am trying to convince, although single-handed, that "There is God," and they are bringing opposition.
Indian man (2): That is the real philosophy. That is not only Indian philosophy; this is universal philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. God is for everyone.
Prabhupāda: Mā prekṣiṣṭhāstava yadi sakhe bandhu-saṅge 'sti raṅgaḥ. If you want to enjoy the company of your society, friendship, and love, then don't see. It will be finished. For this reason they are now bringing charges against us that we are spoiling these young men by brainwash. There is great opposition in the United States to our movement that we are spoiling these young men by giving some speculation, controlling over their mind, and simply injecting some ideas in their brain, brainwash.
Mr. Saxena: (Hindi conversation)
Prabhupāda: Who said this?
Mr. Saxena: I don't remember.
Prabhupāda: Then it is very popular phrase.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We can settle it ourselves instead of bringing it to Prabhupāda.
Akṣayānanda: I don't think there's any great difficulty, Prabhupāda.
Devotee (1): Actually, we've been speaking the last few days and these problems can be solved.
Prabhupāda: No, it is Kṛṣṇa's service. Everyone is offering voluntary service. So not that anybody's paid and if he cannot, dismiss or... Yes. This bureaucracy is not... Train him. Train him. If he does not know, train him. But things must be done very nicely by cooperation. That is wanted. Everyone should remember that we are serving Kṛṣṇa, and everyone should remember, "The other person is serving Kṛṣṇa. And because he is serving Kṛṣṇa, he is not my servant; he is my master." That should be always in view. Therefore we address, prabhu: "You are my master." We never address, "You are my servant." We are trained up to say my brother, that "prabhu," "such and such prabhu." Prabhu means master. Nobody think himself that he is master. He should always think that everyone is his master because he's serving the master. This is our philosophy. So in this way... Now you have got good arrangement and they're all intelligent persons, young persons.
Prabhupāda: So arrange for bringing Bhogilal tomorrow.
Mahāṁśa: Yes, tomorrow afternoon or evening we can arrange.
Prabhupāda: No. Yes, so immediately arrange for that. He is very important man. If he comes you can all mature consultation about this female, about managing. He is practically doing. He has one thousand acres of land.
Mahāṁśa: Oh, yes, it's not a joke.
Prabhupāda: And he is practical business man. So immediately... And besides that, he is already sympathetic. He is becoming interested more. So he can do so many things for us. He is a very nice man. So he volunteered to come here. So bring him immediately. So arrange. From tomorrow we go there. If it is not finished, then he may be given that place. I am at here. I shall stay. Or he can be given this room; I can go there. In this way... Because the doors are not yet fitted.
Prabhupāda: (angry) I don't say Caitanya, I say Kṛṣṇa. Why you misunderstand? Don't talk like that. I don't say that. Why you have misunderstood? Don't disturb in that... I don't say Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Why you are bringing Caitanya? You are saying. I say what Kṛṣṇa says, you do that.
Indian lady: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: So why you shall go to so many leaders? Why not go to the supreme leader, Kṛṣṇa?
Indian lady: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: If you explain, that is another... But interpretation.
Guest: That is the basic...
Prabhupāda: That is already there. What Kṛṣṇa says, you say.
Prabhupāda: That means you make purposefully complicated. The father is saying, "I am father." Then why you are bringing this meaning, aham means...
Indian man: No, it's that "aham" is indicated to Who? The physical posture of Kṛṣṇa which we know or the...?
Prabhupāda: Why do we say like that? Why? (shouting) Why you are bringing physical concept He is a person, He is saying. Why do you say physical, material, and this and that way. He is father.
Indian man: Because He is saying, we should accept it?
Prabhupāda: Yes, you accept. Accept, Kṛṣṇa is in your front. And why should physical, metaphysical and chemical? Kṛṣṇa is a person.
Girirāja: They're having a ceremony of bringing the flag.
Devotee: Again?
Girirāja: Yes. From the Nathadwar, Bombay, at some place. They invited us to do kīrtana.
Prabhupāda: You may go. You have no...? You can go.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Last time they would not let us distribute our magazines when they had it in Shrimati Morarji's house. They had the same ceremony in Shrimati Morarji's house here about a year ago and they didn't like our book distribution there.
Prabhupāda: What this time where it will be held?
Girirāja: This is an organization. Last time was Shrimati Morarji's personal...
Prabhupāda: Private house. This is organized function you ask them a place to show our books. If they deny then we don't go. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: It is completely educational. Spiritual education. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). It is not religious sentiment. Some Arya-samajis told me in Durban, South Africa, that "Why you are bringing this Hindu idea?" And this is not your Hindu idea. Kṛṣṇa said kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. Does it mean that only Hindus, from boyhood they become youth, and the Musselman does not? What is this nonsense? People are so misguided they cannot understand this simple word, this spiritual education. They say Hindu idea. That only the Hindu boys grow to become young men. The Muslim, the Christian, they do not grow up. Just see how much in darkness they are and how much they require this education. How the world is in need of this spiritual education. And they cannot understand it. Just see how they are dull and rascal headed. Hindus grow only. Huh? Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam... (BG 2.13). Kṛṣṇa said from boyhood to yauvanam, it is Hindu idea. The Arya-samaji friend told me, why you bring this Hindu idea? How much dull they are just imagine.
Prabhupāda: First of all, try to understand Bhagavad-gītā. Then go to the sari of gopī. You do not know what is Kṛṣṇa and you are going to His gopīs. This is another malinterpretation. You are studying Bhagavad-gītā, talk of that. In the Bhagavad-gītā the gopīs' saris are not mentioned. So why you are bringing gopīs' saris now? This is our fault.
Guest (2): Normally, you know our people...
Prabhupāda: No, no. This is our fault There is no mention of gopīs' saris. We are talking of Bhagavad-gītā, why you are bringing gopīs' saris?
Guest (2): Because that...
Prabhupāda: Again because. There is no subject matter there. You have no right to bring that. That is our fault. To bring a horse before a cart. We are talking of Bhagavad-gītā. There is no mention of Kṛṣṇa and gopīs' saris there. So let us talk. Finish that.
CID Chief: I was longing to come, so today I came. It's my great fortune that...
Prabhupāda: No... That. Even as CID officer, you can note. This is my business. I am working hard, producing these books, selling, and the telegram you see, and bringing that money here. So if you thing that I am still faulty, then what can I do?
CID Chief: From the beginning I have made it clear that I come here to get some mental peace.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We have Chinese Bhagavad-gītā. Actually Trivikrama Swami has just come. He's been preaching in Taiwan. (breaks) (end)
Jagadīśa: With just a stick.
Prabhupāda: Yes, with a stick. (chuckles) They are so submissive. The cow is going this side, "Raa-raa!"—immediately. (Jagadīśa laughs) When in Bible they say, "The animal is given to the care of man," like that... There is. This is care of, not that "Because we care of, we shall kill them." What is this interpretation? How demonic this Western civilization. "Because Jesus Christ, the God, has given the animals to our care, therefore we shall kill and eat." Anyway, try to introduce a renovation of civilization. Therefore they are trying to oppose us. Now they are conscious about the movement, that "If it is allowed to increase, then our program will be finished. And young men are taking. They are not rejecting." That is their concern. They are concerned about their business and industry. If these young men are held up in plain living, then where their industry...? Industry means to exploit the work of others and give them one dollar and make profit ten dollars. This is industry, at the cost of others some capitalist gaining huge profit. This is industry. "And let them live in a hellish condition, go to hell. Never mind. You work in the factory, and we make profit." The Communist is trying to take over the industry and get the whole profit. (laughs) That's all. The condition remains the same—hellish. But... What is called...? Complacent, he's satisfied that "I am getting the profit." All foolish. The Iran is also imitating European method of exploiting. They're bringing men from village. In India also, British period, they used to, that, but Indian people are little clever.
Prabhupāda: Again why you are bringing "secular India"? This is a science. Science, science, scientific knowledge—so does it mean the secular India, they should stop scientific education?
Guest (1): No religion can be backed up like that.
Prabhupāda: No, why you bring religion at all? It is science. Religion is a kind of faith. But science is not faith. You may have faith or may not have faith. Science, "Two plus two equal to four," everywhere. Why they forget this? This is a science, vijñāna. Jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa-vijñānaṁ idaṁ vakṣyāmy aśeṣataḥ (BG 7.2). It is vijñāna. And they are interpreting in different way, "Two plus two equal five." Big, big men, they are doing that. Two plus two equal five because somebody, some big man has said? This is going on. Somebody said, "Two plus two equal to three"; somebody says "Two plus two equal five." "In my opinion it is five." And somebody: "In my opinion it is three." What is this nonsense? This is going on. And they are big men. They are leaders, mūḍha. This is the position of India.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) ...machine. At night we translate. In daytime they type, and they send to the press, and the books are printed. Then they sell. So in this way I am bringing ten lakhs of rupees per month and investing in constructing these temples.
Trivikrama: Many temples. All over India.
Indian (1): All over India. In Mathurā, Vṛndāvana, there is something going on.
Prabhupāda: And that is finished. Our temple is the biggest and the nicest.
Indian (1): Idea is the nice. Devotion is the biggest. So everything naturally...
Prabhupāda: (Hindi)
Indian (1): (Hindi) I will advise my people...
Prabhupāda: Why advise? Why not come practically?
Indian (1): Why not practically they should come?
Prabhupāda: Advise gratis, that will not do. (Hindi) ...temple... We have spent fifty lakhs of rupees. There is very big guesthouse behind the temple.
Indian man: Swamiji, I get two thoughts. Number one: having acquired a family, I am willing to renounce, but would I not be running away from the responsibility, in the name of Lord Kṛṣṇa, for the bringing up and educating the children? And second thing...
Prabhupāda: You cannot educate, neither you bring. This is māyā. Do you think... Do you think that only in your presence your children will be happy? There are... Just see here in the corner, the father, mother, and the child is always, twenty-four hours, crying. The father, mother, is there. They are poor men, they are taking care, but still, the child is unhappy; it is crying twenty-four hours. There are many you'll find. So does it mean that in the presence of father, mother, a child is happy? Everyone is being conducted by his destiny. The father, mother, may be there or may not be there; his destiny will go on. This is the law of nature. You see here. Do you mean to say, because that man is poor, he's not taking care of the child? Why the child is crying twenty-four hours? So if one child is made to cry by his destiny, even in the presence of his father, mother, he has to cry. Nobody can make him happy. So this is called illusion, that "I am doing." Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). A rascal, he thinks like that. But it is not the fact.
Prabhupāda: This is the test. Guru... The supreme guru is Kṛṣṇa, and anyone canvasses for Kṛṣṇa, he is guru, guru's represent... Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya. That guru will never say that "Kṛṣṇa is dead and gone. I am now guru. I am Kṛṣṇa. I am avatāra." That is rascaldom. So if you want such rascal, then you'll be cheated. (aside:) Who is bringing prasāda? Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). Everything is there. Read Bhagavad-gītā very carefully. Don't misinterpret. That has killed our culture. They do not know what is Bhagavad-gītā, and they stand: "I am a student of Bhagavad-gītā." This is going on. Even recently I had been in Gandhi's aśrama. It is a desert. He was student of Bhagavad-gītā. Yes. Vinobhaji also never teaches Kṛṣṇa, but he's a Gītā-pravacana. What Gītā-pravacana without Kṛṣṇa? Everyone is doing that, Bhagavad-gītā without Kṛṣṇa. What is that Bhagavad-gītā?
Guest (2): A glass without water.
Prabhupāda: If big, big men do like that, then what the followers will do? Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas lokas tad anuvartate (BG 3.21). This is the position of our country, that everyone has misguided in the name of leadership, and people are in bewilderment—"What to do?"
Prabhupāda: So we are giving that thing—there will be no more eyes' trouble. The main disease... Suppose one man is diseased, so sometimes he is feeling headache, sometimes eye-ache, sometimes finger-ache, and you are applying some medicine for headache. That is not the solution. The solution is that this man is suffering from this disease. How to cure it? So Bhagavad-gītā is meant for that purpose. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). And as soon as you accept body, kleśada... Na sādhu manye yato ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). Asann api. This body is not permanent. So because the body is not permanent, the disease also not permanent. So Kṛṣṇa's advice is tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ (BG 2.14). You make the solution—that is the greatest solution—that how to stop janma-mṛtyu. But that they do not know, that this can be stopped. They are simply busy with their temporary problems. And they are taking it as very great. What is great? Suppose if you have got a boil here. Simply by pinprick. (makes blowing sound) Will it cure? There must be surgical operation. Get out the pus. So this movement is for that purpose.
Jagadīśa: Yes. Since I've been taking two baths a day, unless I have two baths I don't feel clean. Sometimes I am very busy and don't get to bathe twice, and then I feel very dirty.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: I don't feel clean if I don't have three.
Prabhupāda: Also, he also. He also takes. So if it is practiced, it keeps health very nice. I was taking all along. Since I was attacked, heart, they said you should be kept from catching cold.
Prabhupāda: There is milk supply? No.
Gurudāsa: Yes. We have one man from Vṛndāvana who's bringing milk at 2.70 a kilo, a little costly, but Mela time, and they have to bring it from a far distance. Anyway, 2.70, kilo, cow's milk.
Prabhupāda: Cow's milk...
Hari-śauri: They say. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Cow's milk means buffalo with water.
Gurudāsa: With a little bit of the newspaper inside also.
Prabhupāda: Acchā.
Gurudāsa: For to put, to make it look like cream, they put newspaper also.
Hari-śauri: Make it thick. They grind paper. You have to strain it before you drink it.
Gurudāsa: But I... We tasted it. We came to the conjoint opinion that it was passable.
Prabhupāda: Less newspaper. (laughter)
Gurudāsa: No. Not yet. I've been too busy. To get to any place you have to walk. But the first thing I did, I got a...
Prabhupāda: Why to walk?
Gurudāsa: Well, I hired a autoscooter for the day, but there's so many things to do that since you had a place to live, I put that..., that I'm going to see it, but I didn't do it immediately. I went to see Munshi's camp though. Now, that is three miles away. That I walked to. It took one and a half hours to go.
Prabhupāda: One and a half hours!
Gurudāsa: No. Not yet. I've been too busy. To get to any place you have to walk. But the first thing I did, I got a...
Prabhupāda: Why to walk?
Gurudāsa: Well, I hired a autoscooter for the day, but there's so many things to do that since you had a place to live, I put that..., that I'm going to see it, but I didn't do it immediately. I went to see Munshi's camp though. Now, that is three miles away. That I walked to. It took one and a half hours to go.
Prabhupāda: One and a half hours!
Prabhupāda: So that is my vilāsa. So sat saṅga chāḍi kāinu asate vilāsa. So I am now bound up. I can become a very nice carpenter. Does it mean that I am self-realized? If you have learned the art of turning crude wood into a table, nice table, you may get the credit of becoming a nice carpenter; that does not mean you are self-realized. They are taking credit of this turning crude wood into nice table, and they're thinking that "Our life is successful." This is going on. And the real technology, that "I am not this body; I have been put into this condition, and I am transmigrating from one body to another"—there is no such knowledge. For the temporary.... (break) ...temporary thing, flickering thing, like children. Children is very busy on the beach, making sand palaces, and he's very happy. So our position is like that. But we should be intelligent enough that "There is our real life, permanent life, not this temporary life," that "This life is temporary. There is another life." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). "This śarīra is not..." Avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. So many things.... The Bhagavad-gītā is full of information, but we don't take advantage. We are so unfortunate. And it is our country. This is Indian culture. We have given up this. (Hindi) Gandhiji, he was supposed to be a great student of Bhagavad-gītā. And the such a big āśrama, Sevagrama.
Prabhupāda: And who is that father? Why did you not...? So here is the father. You should be obliged to us that we are bringing...
Hari-śauri: There are so many names anyway.
Prabhupāda: Then why not Kṛṣṇa?
Hari-śauri: Yes, exactly. Just like Allah means "the great one," so Kṛṣṇa means "the all-attractive one." It's the same God.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa was proved, and still He is proved. Who is reading others' book all over the world? Therefore He is God. Where is that book so respected as Bhagavad-gītā? Who is printing so many books? Not even Bible. They respected Bible. Why the foreigners are reading Bhagavad-gītā? That is the proof that Kṛṣṇa is God. During the Christmas festival we sold our books greatest number in the history. How many copies Bible you have sold? That is the proof. Here is God. Otherwise why Christians should purchase Bhagavad-gītā during Christmas holiday? And because Kṛṣṇa is God, therefore you have come to fight. Who is going to fight with Jehovah? Who is going to fight with Jehovah movement?
Hari-śauri: Well, just like in the Middle East area, if they want to describe God or if they want to glorify God, they refer to Him as the Almighty One. And that word that means "Almighty One" is Allah. So if in India they want to glorify God by calling Him the All-attractive One, and that word is Kṛṣṇa, then what is the wrong?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: Their big propaganda is that "India is so poor and they are so stupid, they are giving all their money to the temple, so they are remaining poor, so what is the use of this religion?" That was the propaganda, that "Religion is the opiate of the people."
Prabhupāda: Yes, they do not... Therefore they are... The Indian rascals, they using this income of Bālaji for industry. They are bringing, that "The poor people, on account of their innocence, they are blindly, so..." Communist movement is against us because we are constructing costly temples, crores and rupees. This could have been utilized in industry. That is their protest. Temple construction was practically stopped in India. And I have again revived. Nobody was interested to construct temple anywhere within the recent at least hundred years or fifty years.
Prabhupāda: And still, they have to go to the Mars. Just see how degraded they have become. By drinking urine, they are going to Mars and bringing report, all false propaganda to keep the prestige of the scientists.
Hari-śauri: Yes. It's just a colossal hoax.
Rāmeśvara: No, they will go on and on with their bluffs. They will try to bluff that they are creating life, just like they've bluffed they've gone to other planets.
Prabhupāda: Everything bluff. I never believed them. I never believed them. In my Easy Journey to..., I have, ten years before, I have already rejected. Simply bluff.
Gargamuni: Just like Gaura-Govinda, he's bringing many villagers here.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. He's good preacher.
Hari-śauri: Yes, he's doing nicely.
Gargamuni: And there's 500,000 such villages all over India. And they're more pious. In Sundarban, when Bhavānanda went to the Sundarban jungle, they had tremendous reception.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Hari-śauri: Very good reception.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere.
Satsvarūpa: He's bringing... I have a map of all that they've done very recently. Right now they're in Germany.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. We have received one telegram from where? Poland.
Devotee (1): Poland University.(?)
Satsvarūpa: Harikeśa Mahārāja has programs in all those countries: Poland, Hungary...
Prabhupāda: He is very enthusiastic. (laughs)
Satsvarūpa: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore I asked him that "You go there." Rāmeśvara: Gargamuni Mahārāja has sold 550 standing orders in six months.
Prabhupāda: He is bringing life. What is the answer of these rascal scientists?
Satsvarūpa: No good answer. Bluff.
Prabhupāda: Challenge them like this, that "First of all do it. You are less than the chicken. Why you are claiming so much honor? We treat you, you are fig. You are less important than the chicken. Prove that you have got some power; then claim that you are scientist." Hm? Is that argument all right? What will be the counterargument?
Gurukṛpā: A sane man would accept.
Prabhupāda: They're all rascals. They do not know anything; still, they are claiming very high position.
Hari-śauri: Well, the thing Rāmeśvara Mahārāja was saying was that they're bringing all these psychiatrists and psychologists in to make so many statements.
Prabhupāda: Let them bring. We have got our own psychiatrists.
Hari-śauri: He was saying in order to defeat them, we have to bring in other psychiatrists and psychologists.
Prabhupāda: The psychiatrists mean... Do you mean to say whatever they will say, we have to accept?
Satsvarūpa: Well, they're considered authorities.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Satsvarūpa: The foolish public considers them authorities of behavior and the mind.
Prabhupāda: Then everyone, a psychiatrist's recommendation. Even a sane man can be proved that he's a madman by the recommendation of psychiatrist.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we were bringing that and answering, not answering directly, but saying that whatever we see, whatever we find by experimental science, by these instruments, we see something, but how do we know that... Our matter of receiving knowledge is by itself defective.
Prabhupāda: Defective, yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because actually there are many defects in science.
Prabhupāda: So they do not challenge you that "How your knowledge is perfect?" They do not challenge that?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.
Prabhupāda: No, then they can challenge like that, that "If our knowledge is imperfect, how your knowledge is perfect?" If they challenge like that, what you will answer? (break) ...child is imperfect, but when the child says, "This is spectacle," and if we ask the child, "How do you know?" "Father told me," then it is perfect. He received the knowledge from the father, that "This is spectacle," so although he is imperfect child, he speaks perfect. That is our method. That statement is not imperfect. We cannot be perfect. That's not possible. But if we receive knowledge from the perfect, then our knowledge is perfect. So all right.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We are bringing this law of nature which is a higher order law. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...thousandth part of the top tip of the hair. That is also given. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā (CC Madhya 19.140). In the Upaniṣads there is. The dimension of the ātmā is given. That small particle, atomic, is so powerful. And what about the Supreme?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They ask, "What is the force that combined matter and the ātmā, matter and life, matter and the jīva or ātmā? What is the force behind it?"
Prabhupāda: Force because ātmā is independent. He can live in the spiritual world or in the material world as he likes.
Prabhupāda: Why you are bringing our temples? I am talking of the principle.
Satsvarūpa: Oh.
Hari-śauri: The principle we follow. We're just thinking how it can be implemented. You were saying that it should be started in our society.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is a very broad idea. Now we are speaking of some of them, training them. That is another thing. That is small scale.
Hari-śauri: The principle we're following.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In the... For the big scale, this is the required. In big scale you cannot make all of them as brāhmaṇas or sannyāsīs. No. That is not possible. This is a small scale. How many percentage of people of the world we are controlling? Very insignificant. But if you want to make the whole human society perfect, then this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement should be introduced according to the Kṛṣṇa's instruction, if you want to do it in a large scale for the benefit of the whole human society. Now we are picking up some of them, best. That is another thing. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu said para-upakāra. Why a certain section should be picked up? The whole mass of people will get the benefit of it. Then it is required, systematic. Sve sve karmaṇy abhirataḥ saṁsiddhiṁ labhate naraḥ. Para-upakāra means mass benefit, not there is certain section. Then we have to introduce this varṇāśrama-dharma. It must be done perfectly, and it is possible and people will be happy.
Prabhupāda: So you reply this, that "You come. I shall train you. You will guide. We are prepared to guide you, but it is not possible to, bring men outside to guide you. You come to us. I shall train you how to guide." This is the reply. And that is wanted. This Bon Mahārāja failed. Why? He wanted... Guru Mahārāja wanted that you start one temple in London. But he was thinking of bringing, taking men from India. Actually he had no.... (break) That is the fact. Therefore he failed. Instead of serving Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī, he wanted to serve Vivekananda. To become like Vivekananda and "I shall be very much eulogized in my country, second Vivekananda." That was his ambition. He never wished to defy Vivekananda and elevate Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He has introduced in his Oriental Institute, Gandhi philosophy, Vivekananda philosophy. Just see his position.
Brahmānanda: We received that tape where you tell the story of Mr. Ghosh bringing all the books just to...
Hari-śauri: "Just to teach you law."
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Hari-śauri: "Just to teach you law."
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. There was big lawyer. In those days he was earning not less than thirty-thousand per month. Rajbery Ghosh, Doctor. He was Doctor. So in one case he brought so many books in the court, the judge remarked, "Well, Dr. Ghosh, You have brought the whole library?" "Yes, my lord, just to teach you law." (laughs) No, any statement we give, it has to be considered. They cannot neglect. So you can simply put these books, eighty-four books: "This is our statement. You read them. Then give your judgement." How do you think? Did you consult any lawyer?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We're going to do it. It can be done.
Prabhupāda: "It is not brainwash. It is science. You have to know the science." And actually that is the fact. The court case is going on.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Their life is sustained with these books, these books and chanting and the Deity worship, sustaining all the devotees in the world and bringing new devotees. Everyone we ask who joins this movement, "Before you joined, did you get a book?" "Yes." In every case I have seen that the first thing was the book.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then, after reading, they become convinced and then they joined.
Prabhupāda: So let us do our duty. Our attempt Kṛṣṇa will see. That gentleman has written, "Swami Bhaktivedanta will be remembered for centuries, making history." Is not that?
Satsvarūpa: "Unsurpassed," this... Not just remembered, it will be unsurpassed.
Prabhupāda: And many foreign scholars also, they have.
Ādi-keśava: It is their ignorance.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But you are rascal. You are bringing something which is not the fact. First of all find out the similarity; then you can say, "It is like that." Where is the similarity? This is false logic. Analogy means the points of similarity. Then you can make analogy. The moon is beautiful, and if one's face is very beautiful, you can say, "This face is as beautiful as the moon." But if it is ugly, black, then how you can make that "This face is as beautiful as the moon"? Where is the analogy?
Ādi-keśava: No analogy.
Prabhupāda: Analogy means points of similarity.
Guest (2): But who was responsible for bringing this body into existence?
Prabhupāda: You are. You are. You have selected your own dress.
Guest (2): The owner?
Prabhupāda: Just like you are in white dress and he is in brown dress. That is your selection. You like this white dress; he likes that brown dress. So for the dress, you are responsible. That is you.
Guest (2): Who is "you"?
Prabhupāda: You are... Therefore you do not know who you are.
Prabhupāda: ...their intelligence. (break) Utilize it very nicely. Kṛṣṇa will be very, very pleased. This is our real business. Every work is nice. Still, one should work... That is to be designated by the spiritual... "This man..." Knows how to engage this man.
Harikeśa: I was going to bring with me the new Hungarian book, but the person who was bringing it from the printer, the car broke down before the airplane could... The car broke down. It was printed.
Prabhupāda: Could not reach.
Harikeśa: It could not reach me at the airplane, so, I think, when Bhagavān comes he will bring the book.
Prabhupāda: You have advised.
Harikeśa: I tried. I tried. I don't know. Otherwise it will come by mail. We printed ten thousand Hungarian books.
Prabhupāda: What is that book?
Harikeśa: It's Perfection of Yoga and Beyond Birth and Death in the same cover, because...
Prabhupāda: Oh. Like the German edition.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Now so far as the elmira goes, I discussed with them. So their understanding was that once they open their actual branch, they're going to be purchasing all their furniture in Calcutta and bringing it here. So they're just temporarily using it.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we don't want to charge them, I don't think.
Prabhupāda: No.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Let me first ask them, before you sign this, whether they'll keep it open, because if they're going to close it now, there's no use in signing it.
Prabhupāda: No. Because in Calcutta I have got already.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. Do you want to see this gentleman again today?
Prabhupāda: I have no objection.
Prabhupāda: Yes, very good.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: So with this idea, I am sure the situation can be rectified even to the point of bringing Yogeśvara and his wife back.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: If there is cooperation between Jayatīrtha Prabhu and Bhagavān.
Prabhupāda: So that's a good idea. No, Jayatīrtha will be sent there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So he'll be assistant secretary?
Satsvarūpa: No. What we resolved is that Bhagavān dāsa would stay in his present zone: France and Italy and Sweden and Amsterdam; but that as far as Jayatīrtha, he would visit Paris and New Māyāpur to assist with the financial problems there, and after some time...
Prabhupāda: Jayatīrtha and Ātreya Ṛṣi, both.
Prabhupāda: That is my mission. I am doing that. I am bringing money from America. Nobody's paying me. It is not joke, ten lakhs of rupees. Who brings?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Even big export companies don't bring so much.
Prabhupāda: And they'll be glad. They have got money and they are getting culture. I am trying for United Nations. That is real attempt of United Nation, not this United Nation; all rogues and thieves and cheaters, barking dogs. I am trying for the United Nations. Help me. This is real United Nation. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām (BG 18.54). It is United Nation. So I began this movement very humbly, loitering on the street of New York. Now it has come to this stage. Let us cooperate together nicely.
Gargamuni: That's common in Bengal. I was seeing in Bangladesh many men were bringing this pamphlet saying, "Oh, this man is the incarnation of Nitāi and Gaura. This man is the incarnation of..."
Prabhupāda: Very good. Keep that position. When you meet them, "No, no, I am servant of Nitāi-Gaura."
Gargamuni: No, that wasn't referring to myself. They were bringing pamphlets of others.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Gargamuni: I was trying to point out that it is common to set up some avatāra, some man as avatāra. They also called us Gaura-Nitāi in Bangladesh, myself and Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa, because they never saw white sādhus before in their lives. And because of our light complexion, they referred us to as Gaura-Nitāi.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So ask Upendra to come. Let him be trained up.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is supposed to be bringing it to me tomorrow morning.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. It is being typed. It is all ready. I am showing you a complete statement of all the paper purchased, how it is used, a complete statement of every book printed in India, where it is distributed, what the balance is; complete inventory report, how much stock we have in hand, and books distributed in the month of March. We are producing these reports every month now. Everything. All the records are there.
Prabhupāda: No, but that bank manager wanted to come?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He came, but I only got back by four-thirty, and he said he would come again at eleven o'clock tomorrow morning.
Upendra: He has stopped bringing flowers.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Later he will bring. I told him. These should be probably taken down after one day. They get brown.
Prabhupāda: These can be distributed to the devotees. Today I have explained the Bhāgavata, prāṇamānāya:(?) how this bodily concept of life is dangerous. These things they do not know. Leaders, big, big papers, big, big propaganda. What is the purpose of life and how dangerous this civilization is, bodily concept of life, they do not know. Bhagavad-gītā begins when they understand that "You are not this body." The whole subject matter is on that soul, the whole Bhagavad-gītā. Bhojendra-gehe 'gni-śikheva ruddhā, sarasvatī jñāna-khale yathā satī. I see Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam so exalted knowledge and so beautifully literary presented. Śrīmat. Śrīmat means beautiful. Throughout the whole world, you won't find any literature. This is India's fortune, and they are keeping it packed up. Jñāna-khaleṣu. Jñāna-khala means envious. You have got some knowledge, but you are envious. You don't want to distribute to anyone. They are called jñāna-khala.
Upendra: (bringing garlands) This one was made by a little girl. The boy who fixed the buzzers, his little daughter made.
Prabhupāda: This is our flower? Hm? Get all round, flower, the first land vacant. You should plant them. Puṇyo gandhaḥ pṛthivyāṁ ca.
Upendra: Paramparā mālās. There's five mālās here for the paramparā.
Prabhupāda: First of all hear. Then tomorrow they... Kṛṣṇa is helping. He'll help more, more. We are not going to be misled by their leadership.
Prabhupāda: Why you are bringing religion? It is science. Why you are mistaking again? Is that religion, a child is growing to become a young man? Is that religion? It is science.
Mr. Rajda: But they do not look at from that perspective.
Prabhupāda: That means rascals. They do not accept "Two plus two equal to four."
Mr. Rajda: Yeah, correct. Intelligent...
Prabhupāda: If we do not take mathematics as it is, and if we interpret "Two plus two equal to three," that is rascaldom. "Two plus two equal to four," that is everywhere.
Prabhupāda: Now, if this is fact, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ and na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), what we are doing for that? This is Bhagavad-gītā. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So when my body is destroyed, I am going... (break) ...from door to door, selling the books and sending money. We are pushing on our mission in the way. I am not getting any help neither from the government, from the public. And the record is there in the Bank of America, how much foreign exchange I am bringing. Even in this feeble health also, I am working four hours at least, at night. And they are also helping me. So this is our individual attempt. Why not come here? If you are actually very serious student of Bhagavad-gītā, why don't you come, cooperate? And harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathenāsati dhāvato... (SB 5.18.12). You cannot make public honest simply by legislation. That is not possible. Forget it. That is not possible. Harāv abhaktasya kuto.... Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvaiḥ... If you, if one becomes devotee of the Lord, all good qualities will be there. And harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad... If he's not a devotee... Now so many things, condemnation, is going on, big, big leaders. Today's paper I have seen. "This man, that man, is rejected even." Why? Harāv abhaktasya kuto. What is the benefit of becoming a big leader if he's not a devotee? (Hindi) You are very intelligent, young, and therefore I am trying to give you some idea, and if you can give some shape to these ideas... It is already there. It is no secret. Simply we must be serious, that this institution must be there for educating the whole human society. Never mind, a very small number. It doesn't matter. But ideal must be there.
Mr. Rajda: Correct. Actually ...
Prabhupāda: No Indians are coming. I am bringing men and money from there, and government is driving them: "Get out!" This is my position. And if one boy goes back and again comes—ten thousand rupees. In this way I am losing five to six lakhs of rupees per year—for nothing. This is the co-operation of the government.
Mr. Rajda: But why the government is driving them out?
Prabhupāda: This, your so-called visa.
Prabhupāda: Bring some paper. Write it. Immediately begin to do this. They are coming from very rich, respectable family. They have not come here to earn money for exploit India. They have no business to do this. I can guarantee that they will bring money from America and live here—not touch a single paisa of India. Now, suppose there are one hundred Americans, and if I am bringing ten lakhs of rupees per month, then what is the per capita?
Mr. Rajda: Per capita will show...
Girirāja: Ten thousand.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Indian (1): I... Yeah, complete list. That is why I asked you, "What first step you wanted to?"
Prabhupāda: Kindly help.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but they are cheating. That is a fact. How we have learnt it, that is another thing. But you are cheating. That's fact.
Devotee (4): Just like this President Carter, though, he's supposed to be a religious man and bringing so-called honesty into government, compared to the others.
Prabhupāda: That, everyone says.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And this, these space flight cheatings, this is for the purpose of giving a few men more tax money or fame. That's another reason for cheating, to get fame.
Prabhupāda: I have got tendency to cheat, so people unnecessarily poses himself as very big man even by ideas that you will consider him very great man, although I am nothing. So many gurus, they are doing that. Our business that we want to speak what Kṛṣṇa has said. If Kṛṣṇa has cheated, then we are cheater. Otherwise honest. If Kṛṣṇa is honest, we are honest. If Kṛṣṇa is cheater, so our position is safe. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Other gurus, they are manufacturing how to cheat. That is the difference. We are not speaking anything new. So if Kṛṣṇa has originally cheated you, then I am cheater.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And I also made about five devotees in Manipur. I was thinking of bringing in Bombay to get trained up so that I can take in south of Manipur.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But I decided not to take them at this time because I am coming back in September. About that time I am going. Before I gave them what to do and...
Prabhupāda: They are coming or not?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In Bombay? Yeah, they will come.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When will they come?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In September.
Prabhupāda: No, no, why not earlier?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I didn't want to bring them earlier because...
Prabhupāda: All right. That is all right.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. This is exactly what his purpose is. He wants to show there is Kurukṣetra. It's not in someone's mind. "And perhaps even including Lord Buddha's explaining his real identity and role in bringing people to a higher platform."
Prabhupāda: These are good ideas.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "And then to include Lord Caitanya, the six Gosvāmīs, and other great ācāryas in our line, up to Your Divine Grace, the foremost preacher of the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the world today."
Prabhupāda: Very good. This is all right.
Prabhupāda: Then? What is the problem?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, my point is that you're going to have to travel Sunday morning to get there, and then hold a function Sunday evening, so whether that's going to be tiring? That's all I'm bringing out.
Prabhupāda: The morning, how many hours?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Travel...
Mr. Dwivedi: Three hours.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Three hours.
Prabhupāda: And that's all right.
Prabhupāda: That is the misfortune. They have left the authority, real authority. They have accepted some foolish man as authority. And that is the misfortune. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, the supreme authority. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). Why don't you take this? Distortion of our śāstra, distortion of authority, and bringing something foolish, and you are following. Not... You cannot follow. That is not possible. It is not possible. But you are making some authorities. You trying to follow. Even if you follow... That, the same example, just like Vivekananda was advocating daridra-nārāyaṇa. First of all this is a concocted word. How Nārāyaṇa can be daridra? People have accepted. Nārāyaṇa is daridra?
Mr. Dwivedi: No.
Prabhupāda: Then how he manufactured this nonsense word? It is insulting. If I say, "Foolish Jetthi, President, rascal," so is it not insult? Similarly, if you say, daridra-nārāyaṇa, it is insult to Nārāyaṇa. But people are accepting daridra-nārāyaṇa. Just see how they are misled.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) If you agree to cooperate with me, you'll see immediately. Because I want to deliver the real thing, therefore in my feeble health I am prepared to go. If one man can understand, that I want to see. I am traveling all over the world to see that at least one man may understand. They have spoiled the whole situation by misinterpreting, by malinterpreting, and by bringing some rascal and pose as leader. The whole world is spoiled. If you want to preach some rascal philosophy, you do. Why you take Bhagavad-gītā? That is cheating.
Mr. Dwivedi: If we can preach something genuine... This life is so small. What...? Why...? Why should we be after something which is adulterated? Why not preach genuine, if at all we preach?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Dog is also doing that. Is he householder? Taking care of children, the dog is also doing that. So is he householder? First of all, you do not know what is meant by householder. Taking care of children, that is done by the birds. In the nest the small kiddies are there, and they are bringing food and pushing in the mouth, (makes bird noise:) "Tee, tee, tee, tee, tee." Are they householder? And if you think they are householder, you are also householder like the dogs and birds. You do not know what is householder. Therefore you have to consult śāstra, who is a householder. Śāstra says, pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum: "You should not become a father and mother unless you take the responsibility for children that no more birth." Because this is the problem, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). If you are so able father and mother that you can stop this miserable condition of your children, then you become householder. That is householder. Otherwise what is the use of becoming a householder like dogs and cats? There is no use. There are so many cats and dogs. What is use of increasing? Now government is forcing: "Do not produce cats and dogs. Take these inhibitions(?)." Because the whole world is fed up with these cats and dogs householders. Real householder is, śāstra says, "Don't become a father, don't become a mother, if you cannot protect your children..." Samupeta-mṛtyum. And they are required. If you can do that, then you are welcome. You can produce hundreds of children. But you cannot protect yourself; how you'll be able to protect your children? All bogus.
Devotee (2): As tourist people.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Three months. Utmost, six months. And we are losing five to six lakhs of rupees per year for this injustice. I have pointed out the government that "In America they give permanent residentship to so many Indians. I am also. I have got that blue card, formal residence in America. So why don't you give them permanent residence? They are my assistants." "No." This is our misfortune. I am preaching Indian culture all over the world, and I am bringing at least ten lakhs of rupees, foreign exchange, for my Indian activities, but there is no help from the government. This is our position.
Prabhupāda: Artificially created a famine in India. I have seen.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So Bon Mahārāja was getting seven hundred rupees monthly. That's amazing. Your Guru Mahārāja had to send the money from India to the West. We... You're bringing the money, but for Bon Mahārāja he had to send the money the other way.
Prabhupāda: Every month, regularly. He was playing harmonium. And the report: "Swamiji is playing on harmonium." Therefore Guru Mahārāja became very much disgusted: "Call him back."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said they had to serve meat.
Prabhupāda: I do not know that. But he was a waste of money, that. Still wasting money. What he has done? Has he published any books like that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, he has a big degree now.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Nonsense degree.
Mahāṁśa: And this is a very nice thing he said, Prabhupāda. He said that "We want to improve things in the countryside to an extent that people from the cities start running to the villages."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That I want. I... Everywhere I go and say, how these rascals...? So much land is lying, and these rascals are not developing. And they are making... What is that? Coal stone. Coal. They are interested with these bricks and stones, not green vegetables. Such a rascal government. Give them facility. We know how to do it. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ, yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). Let them engage in kīrtana. There will be more water for gardening, and it will be moist, and then produce fodder for the animals and food for you. And animal gives you milk. That is Vṛndāvana life. And they are absorbed in this so-called opulence. Kṛṣṇa has taken birth. They are bringing so many nice, pleasant foodstuff, very well-dressed and ornamented. These are description. In the morning we were reading. How they were happy, the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana with Kṛṣṇa and living and cows. That I want to introduce. At any cost do it and... Don't bother about big, big buildings. It is not required. Useless waste of time. Produce. Make the whole field green. See that. Then whole economic question solved. Then you eat sumptuous. Eat sumptuously. The animal is happy. The animal even does not give milk; let them eat and pass stool and urine. That is welcome. After all, eating, they will pass stool. So that is beneficial, not that simple milk is beneficial. Even the stool is beneficial. Therefore I am asking so much here and..., "Farm, farm, farm, farm..." That is not my program-Kṛṣṇa's program. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Produce greenness everywhere, everywhere. Vṛndāvana. It is not this motorcar civilization. If it has taken in his brain, then it is to be understood that he can do this plan. He'll be able. Somebody said that he is eager to see me.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Well, people nowadays expect, if anything comes from the States, that's a fact. So sometime all the leading scientists of the world are in the States. Even if they are coming from other countries, they all get together in the States. Everybody goes there. So something is coming from the States, it is formally respected by all the big men all over the world. So that is why I want to attack United States as my last, bringing men from all over. Then we can make a strong presentation in the States.
Prabhupāda: And actually it so happened. Who would have joined unless I would have gone from United States? Useless. Their money, their men, they are helping. That's a fact. And that was my aim.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You tried here first.
Prabhupāda: And they are useless here, waste of time. Neither I wanted to go to London. "New York I shall go."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're not after the loafer class.
Prabhupāda: No, no. They are not loafer. They are also useful. But they are... Bringing them to the education, university, they are becoming loafer, ironclad. As soon as the low-class men are given education, he thinks, "Now I have become educated, baḍa bāpu. Why shall I work as a carpenter? I must have credits here." And they're bribing in government office, and sixty percent of the clerks-useless. They do not know how to make file, cumberous. Because everyone is going in New Delhi. And all fourth-class men are admitted. I have seen. If you have to find out an old file, you have to wait six months. Because these people are neither for this purpose nor that purpose.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, there's a couple of points. I discussed this with them. One thing is that your idea was that Trivikrama Mahārāja should go with Bhakti-caitanya to Punjab. So bringing up Delhi now doesn't solve anything, 'cause Trivikrama is already in Delhi. Whether Bhakti-caitanya Mahārāja is eventually in charge of Delhi or Gopāla Kṛṣṇa is in charge of Delhi, in any case the real point is that Prabhupāda advised that he wanted you to go to Chandigarh 'cause that's where we want to develop.
Prabhupāda: So if you cannot combinedly manage the Delhi...
Trivikrama: There he is...
Prabhupāda: Do that.
Bhakti-caitanya: That's what I was feeling, that if I will be in Chandigarh or Delhi, the service is the same.
Prabhupāda: If... Let them have the management of Delhi(?).
Trivikrama: It's only a few hours by car, two hours.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How far do they, the scientists, say the moon is from the earth? How long? I have a book which says it, and I'm bringing this book. It's very... You'll see it here.
Bhakti-prema: Twenty-four lakhs miles.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Twenty-four lakhs miles, the scientists say?
Bhakti-prema: No.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What do the scientists say? How...?
Prabhupāda: Two lakhs.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Two lakhs miles, 250,000 miles. So that means about, in yojanas, very little, about 25-, 30,000 yojanas.
Yaśodā-nandana: They say the sun is 93,000,000 away.
Bhakti-prema: I think the difference of the (indistinct).
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They have froglike brains.
Prabhupāda: That, the microscope... What is called? Telescope.
Prabhupāda: And I want simply some of them to stay, not money. Money they are bringing. Whatever money we are spending here, Bombay, they are bringing. They are... I am writing books. They are selling books. I am working them always: "Make double. Make double." And they are bringing money. So we'll not touch even India's money a farthing. Let them stay here. "No, that is not... Get out. Get out. Get out. Get out." That's all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Important Muslim reviews." He's labeled their... This is from N. H. Hashmi, Head Professor and Head of the Department of Urdu at Lucknow University. " 'Though I have little knowledge of Sanskrit, but as a student of literature I have been impressed by the meticulous care and clarity with which each mantra of the...' " (break) " '...my mother tongue Urdu. It could not only universalize the teachings of the Vedāntas but also it could very much help in bringing about the much needed integration of the multilingual humanity.' "
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact. We are trying for that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, there is no issue from their side. Upendra Prabhu is saying that they are diverting the issue, means they're bringing attention to how our men got here. Their whole point is that that is actually their intention. They want to create a situation whereby they would force us to be thrown out of the country. That's their intention. They want to drive us away.
Prabhupāda: This is published in?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is published in the Indian Express. Good newspaper.
Prabhupāda: Bombay.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bombay. July 12th. There's a lot of touchy items here. One very touchy item is this Hindu-Muslim thing. And this... The Communists are very intelligent. They purposely chose... (break) What about the actual ministers? Cabinet ministers?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Cabinet ministers, there are sober, Morarji Desai and some of them. This Vajpayi.
Prabhupāda: If they are idle, then you can give engagement. Otherwise don't bring engagements. If they are idle—there is no work—give them. Not that you bring engagement and then... We want to be free from engagement, but if there is idle men, doing nothing, give them engagement. Now that we have got so many work. Simply unnecessarily, paid men are there for cutting vegetables. They have got so much... Means management is a rascal. Our men are idle, and they're bringing paid men to cut vegetables and paying two hundred rupees. This is management. First of all, whatever business is already there, engage them. Then bring further engagement. Now he has understood the situation. Do it very carefully. Don't make plan for squandering money. There are so many engagements. They're not doing anything. They're bringing one paid man to do the work. And you are finding out another engagement. Apply some brain.
Prabhupāda: Invest again!
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They may want him to continue bringing foreign exchange in. That's the point I'm making.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So to continue sending...
Prabhupāda: Make more capital by making profit out of.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But they may want him to continue sending foreign money in, not just...
Prabhupāda: Yes! Beginning will be foreign money.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But they may want him to continue indef...
Prabhupāda: Yes. If required, we shall send.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Very good. He can, because he thinks legally, and that's how you have to deal with these men. They're actually small time, and they're just harassing us because we're acting in a very gentlemanly way and they're acting in a very ungentlemanly way. Anyway, we're not going to take out our fixed deposits. The ones that are there should be matured. But when they're matured, if we want to transfer them to somewhere else, we should have the freedom to do that and not be bound to have to keep the money there. That's the only point. And we'll be bringing so much money. Your Divine Grace has plans for making Vṛndāvana very much developed. So they should not worry like that. None of our other bankers are worried. They see sometimes we take the money, sometimes we bring money. But because of the way they're dealing, we don't want to bring any money. I'll tell Girirāja to..., if he can deal with this matter, that he should take it up. He wanted to meet them. He said he wanted to see what...
Prabhupāda: Let him meet.
Kīrtanānanda: Thank you, Prabhupāda. I prefer to give it. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: No. Give and take. (break) You are fulfilling my dream, New Vrindaban. I dreamt all these things. Wonderful things have been done. He is the first student, from the very beginning. When I was in the storefront he was bringing carpet, bench, some gong, some lamp. In this way...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's still bringing gifts.
Prabhupāda: Sevā-vṛtti, service attitude. Jaya. (pause) Live long, serve long.
Kīrtanānanda: Thank you. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...are also so nice, and whatever little prasādam they get, they are satisfied, New Vrindaban. New Vrindaban.
Hari-śauri: Yes. Upendra's bringing something.
Brahmānanda: What does he have? Grape juice?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? You'll drink by sitting up? (devotees sit Śrīla Prabhupāda up) (aside:) Fold his legs.
Hari-śauri: There's the drink, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some grape juice.
Upendra: This is grape juice. (Prabhupāda drinks juice) (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want to lay down now?
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Kapoorji is bringing one retired vaidya. (Bengali)
Dr. Kapoor: Pandit Lakshmi-Narayan. He was principal of Ayur Vedic College in Jaipur. He's retired man, now doing bhajana here. He's a very old and experienced person. So he will just see the pulse
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Kapoor: ...and say what exactly is wrong.
Prabhupāda: So give him car.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we'll give you Prabhupāda's car or we can give... Either way. It may be better... Bhakti-caitanya Swami has his vehicle here, I think.
Prabhupāda: Any car.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Bring Deity prasādam.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're bringing, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Doctor: Tablets... He likes syrup or tablets? Tablets will be difficult for swallowing?
Prabhupāda: Tablet I can take.
Prabhupāda: I was very happy when I heard, respectable gentlemen, out of love, they are washing dishes. You know that? Ātreya Ṛṣi told me.
Hari-śauri: Yes. In Iran. Some important people in Iran, just out of some... To do some service, they're even going in the restaurant and assisting by washing the dishes, and they're bringing things here and there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's really devotional.
Prabhupāda: They are so gentle.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what we're feeling with this community also, that actually people will become so much impressed with this wonderful way of life that they'll want to take part voluntarily. If something is done very nicely, if Kṛṣṇa consciousness is presented very nicely, then any gentleman will want to take part.
Prabhupāda: Hm. That is good. That's all.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think about forty. Forty people. Today it will come more. Then Dr. Khorana is coming tomorrow. He's a medical doctor. He's bringing several of his friends. He's also our life member.
Abhirāma: His son is a devotee. Śrīla Prabhupāda knows him, Navīna Kṛṣṇa.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Navīna Kṛṣṇa. He's in Detroit. After the conference, I'm going to have a debate in Delhi, round-table conference with Dr. Kotari, D. S. Kotari and his group.
Prabhupāda: That will be very nice.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He proposed that. That's Indian National Science Academy. But he had some very strange ideas. I'd like to clarify some of the points. Also, these people who are coming, they want us to come and speak to all their universities.
Prabhupāda: That will be very good.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Girirāja: Well, I wrote a prayer to Lord Kṛṣṇa for your health. So I was... It's in the next room. I was thinking of bringing it and reading it.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Hṛdayānanda: Also a message arrived for your health, prayers from the devotees in Central America. They're all praying for you. A letter has just arrived.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I get many letters all week, Śrīla Prabhupāda, all praying for your recovery. The devotees cannot resign themselves to letting you go. They don't want to live without you. They cannot...
Prabhupāda: Viśvambhara, everywhere they want me. You also...
Viśvambhara: I can give my life, Prabhupāda. I can give some of my years. I pray that I may go early, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: No, why you should go early? You live on.
Hari-śauri: They haven't seen the difficulty that Prabhupāda has in bringing this stuff up.
Bhavānanda: Milk... There has to be some protein.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Chānā seemed good. Today you had the curd. It seems to have been all right. The cheese this morning, Prabhupāda. I don't notice any cough today.
Prabhupāda: Cough generates later on.
Prabhupāda: You are not bringing the kavirāja?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, he hasn't come yet, no, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I think that if he comes any moment, it will have been very, very quick that he came. I mean actually...
Prabhupāda: If not, so that means hopeless.
Prabhupāda: In this way, make it gorgeous.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm just thinking, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that each of these brāhmaṇas have their own style and method, and by bringing three different groups, it will be a..., you know, there may be some disagreement amongst them.
Prabhupāda: Go on like that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who should be... They will adjust. Each one should have a head brāhmaṇa plus three other assistants.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay.
Prabhupāda: Yaśodānandana should be head.
| Page Title: | Bringing (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | SunitaS, Mayapur, MadhuGopaldas |
| Created: | 04 of Aug, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=236, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 236 |