Expressions researched:
"brahmana training"
|"brahmana"
|"brahmanas"
|"intellectual"
|"train"
|"trained"
|"training"
|"trains"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
We want qualified brāhmaṇas, qualified kṣatriyas. At the present moment, without being qualified, they are passing on as brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya. That is not varṇāśrama. Without being qualified they are all śūdras, all caṇḍālas. But when they are properly trained and qualified, then it is varṇāśrama, real varṇāśrama.
Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore: Prabhupāda: Yes. Varnāśrama-dharma... That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Qualified. Therefore we want qualified brāhmaṇas, qualified kṣatriyas. At the present moment, without being qualified, they are passing on as brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya. That is not varṇāśrama. Without being qualified they are all śūdras, all caṇḍālas. But when they are properly trained and qualified, then it is varṇāśrama, real varṇāśrama.
Guest (4): Where are they to be trained, then? How are they...
Prabhupāda: That we are proposing. When we open a center we shall train anyone. It doesn't matter whether he is born in a śūdra family or brāhmaṇa family. Just like they are born in a different family other than brāhmaṇa but they are now brāhmaṇa because after being trained up.
Life member can send any member of his family for being trained up as a qualified brāhmaṇa who can preach Bhagavad-gītā as it is all over the world.
Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore: Guest (6): I am ready to pay installments.
Prabhupāda: Then there is no problem. You come and join me. If you want...
Guest (6): Let me get degree.
Prabhupāda: You get your degree. That's all right. Finish your education. If I'll be able to open a center, nice center, I shall call so many people, "Come and live with me and be trained up." I am just writing one advertisement. We shall have to publish it. Just read it.
Haṁsadūta: "Wanted: qualified brāhmaṇas for preaching Bhagavad-gītā all over the world. (laughter) Candidates accepted without any discrimination of caste and creed. Apply ISKCON."
Yamunā: Oh, ho, ho, Prabhupāda!
Haṁsadūta: "Life member can send any member of his family for being trained up as a qualified brāhmaṇa who can preach Bhagavad-gītā as it is all over the world." You're going to put this in the newspaper?
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes.
Haṁsadūta: Oh, that will be nice. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yamunā: Oh, that's a wonderful notice, Prabhupāda. It's so wonderful.
Prabhupāda: We have to preach all over the world. We require so many men, so many boys, girls, men we want.
Haṁsadūta: I should send this to the GBC members...
Haṁsadūta: ...in the West, and they should put ads in the paper.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Let us have application.
Haṁsadūta: Should I copy it down?
Prabhupāda: Yes, you take it. You take it. Type it.
Himāvatī: Prabhupāda, in Calcutta Madhudviṣa advertised like that at one meeting, and the next day a man came...
Prabhupāda: Only one man?
Haṁsadūta: Two men came.
Himāvatī: With his six children and his wife, they were prepared, "Let us live here. We will see."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Himāvatī: And another old man that was so old that he was ready to die. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Then you write, "Young men." No, even old man, there is no question. That we can test, whether he is able, he is a qualified brāhmaṇa. First of all he is qualified brāhmaṇa.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
You may belong for the time being to the śūdra class, but to maintain the social order you have to train some of the śūdras to become brāhmaṇa, some of the śūdras to become kṣatriyas.
Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow: Prof. Kotovsky: And the śūdras are workers, menial workers. But here you have no vaiśyas from this point of view because you have administrative staff... In fact, there is administrative staff. You can call them kṣatriyas. And then śūdras, that's workers themselves. But not this intermediate class.
Prabhupāda: That is stated, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ: "In this age practically all men will be śūdras." That is... That is predicted. But if there are simply śūdras, then the social order will be destroyed. You... Just like in spite of your state of śūdras, a brāhmaṇa is found here. And that is necessity. So if you do not divide the social order in such a way, then there will be chaos. that is the scientific estimation of the Vedas. You may... You may belong for the time being to the śūdra class, but to maintain the social order you have to train some of the śūdras to become brāhmaṇa, some of the śūdras to become kṣatriyas. You cannot depend on the śūdras. Then there will be chaos. Neither you can depend only on brāhmaṇa. Just like to fulfill the necessities of your body there must be a portion called the brain, there must be a portion called the arms, there must be a portion called the stomach, or the belly, and there must be a portion which is called the leg. The leg is also required, the brain is also required, the arm is also required—for cooperation, to fulfill the mission of the whole body. So any, any society you conceive, unless there are these four divisions, there will be chaos.
Nobody is being trained as kṣatriya or brāhmaṇa. Everyone is being trained as śūdra or utmost vaiśya, how to make money. That's all.
Room Conversation -- August 15, 1971, London: Prabhupāda: They also do not want fight but they are forced. They do not want to fight. Because they're... Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In the Kali-yuga everyone is śūdra. What he'll fight? Fighting is not the business of a śūdra. It is meant for the kṣatriya. And nobody is being trained as kṣatriya or brāhmaṇa. Everyone is being trained as śūdra or utmost vaiśya, how to make money. That's all. One class of men is being trained how to serve and get some money, another class is being trained how to make money by exploitation. That is capitalist and communist. The communists are the śūdras. They are protesting that "You are exploiting us and getting money. It must stop." That is Communism. Is it not? And the vaiśyas, they are trying to exploit others. Some way or other bring money. So there are these capitalists and śūdra and vaiśya. There is no kṣatriya, there is no brāhmaṇa. Therefore the whole social structure is lost. So we are trying to create some brāhmaṇas. And people if follow our instruction then whole social structure is again revived.
Those who are going to take up the responsibility of administration, they should be trained. And who will train them? The brāhmaṇas, the śāstra, sādhu-śāstra-guru.
Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi: Prabhupāda: And those who are inclined to take part in politics, administration, that class also should be trained how to rule over the country, how to make satisfied the citizens. They should be trained up, as in business people are trained up. Now the fault is without being trained, simply by votes one becomes prime minister or (indistinct). He has no training how to administer, but simply by vote, he occupies a big post. And that is his qualification. But he does not know how to rule over, how to make the people satisfied. Therefore, chaos. Daily everywhere, government is changing. Daily, weekly, this government, that government, that government. Why? Because they are not trained up how to administer. Therefore, that is required. Tejaḥ. First these administrators must be tejasī, īśvara bhava(?). (Sanskrit) Now there will be fight, and the administers will sit down on the nice couch and the common man will fight. Formerly kṣatriya came first of all. Like Arjuna, he is in the front. The other side, Duryodhana is in the front. So the fighter in that, "Oh, my master is there." But there is no kṣatriya. The administration is under the śūdra side. How they can manage? So they must be trained. As in business, we give training. Similarly, those who are going to take up the responsibility of administration, they should be trained. And who will train them? The brāhmaṇas, the śāstra, sādhu-śāstra-guru. And those who are common men, they will simply work under their direction. This division is already there, simply the training is not there.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
We are training them to become actual devotee, brāhmaṇa. Not for become technologists. Technologists, there are many.
Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London: Prabhupāda: That is what. We are preparing them so that they can read our literature which is in Sanskrit and English. As soon as they can read, that's education finished. They will understand, practical demonstration, ārati, worship of the Deity, and they play mṛdaṅga, they chant, they join Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting. They are not meant for any technology.
Guest (3): No.
Prabhupāda: No. That we do not train. We are training them to become actual devotee, brāhmaṇa. Not for become technologists. Technologists, there are many.
Guest (1): I think the spiritual element is also essential in life.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. That is the only business of human life.
Guest (1): There must be little bit of, at least little bit of spiritual element in life. Not the whole time. (break) ...I believe every (break) ...goes to this sort of school.
Guest (3): There are so many.
Prabhupāda: They have no idea.
The whole society is divided into brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa—departmental—and they are trained up.
Room Conversation with Indian Guests and Devotees -- July 11, 1973, London: Prabhupāda: (Hindi for some time, a few English words) (break) (Hindi for some time) (break) When the destiny of the people are to be controlled, there must be very, very intelligent man. That is Vedic civilization. There is standard aims and objects on which the people should be trained up. That is varṇāśrama-dharma. Viṣṇur ārādhanam. Worshiping Viṣṇu. This is the ultimate aim. So the whole society is divided into brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa—departmental—and they are trained up. But the aim is viṣṇur ārādhanam. But they have no idea at the present moment. Viṣṇur ārādhanam, he has no knowledge. But the civilization begins on this point. Human being means he's meant for viṣṇur ārādhanam. Otherwise what is the difference between dogs and human beings? The western people, they do not know. They simply think that dog lies down on the floor, on the road... "We have got nice, best apartment. Therefore we are civilized." So that is their defect. They are trying to improve the condition of sleeping, eating.
What is God, that is the inquiry, but it requires training. And that is Vedic dharma, varṇāśrama-dharma. Anyone who has taken to this system of varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra; and four āśrama: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa
Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London: Prabhupāda: First of all, you must become graduate, then you should take entrance in the law college, then you must learn. So what is God, that is the inquiry, but it requires training. And that is Vedic dharma, varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇāśramācaravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān (CC Madhya 8.58). Anyone who has taken to this system of varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra; and four āśrama: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Unless one takes to this institutional education, he's no more than an animal. So to know God means he must become a brāhmaṇa, real, qualified brāhmaṇa. Therefore brāhmaṇa is respected. Because, brahma-jānātīti brāhmaṇa. But there is no law. Lawless country. Therefore one is passing as a brāhmaṇa without any knowledge of Brahman. That is the defect. Formerly the government will see... I was explaining this, this morning. That it is the kṣatriya's duty to see that one is passing as a brāhmaṇa, whether he's qualified. Why he should pass? Suppose he says, "I'm medical man." He must be qualified. And if he says, "I am medical man," then he's cheating. So you cannot call yourself a brāhmaṇa unless you are qualified. But that is going on. And this cheating is being accepted. Therefore this varṇāśrama-dharma. Hindu dharma or Vedic dharma means varṇāśrama-dharma. One must first of all accept the principles of varṇas and āśramas. Then there is question of understanding God. God is not so cheap thing, "What is God?" and you understand immediately. You must become first of all brāhmaṇa.
A person born in brāhmaṇa family, if his father is actually brāhmaṇa, then automatically he is getting the brahminical training at home.
Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay: Prabhupāda: No, no, that is not. No, no, no. No, that is not śāstra. That is a... Lately, this brahminical class, they made it. Just like he is a manager in the bank. His son does not mean that he is also manager. He must be qualified to become a manager. He has got the facility. Because he is son of a bank manager, so he can get some facilities, father's training. He can quickly become a manager. Others may take time. Similarly, a person born in brāhmaṇa family, if his father is actually brāhmaṇa, then automatically he is getting the brahminical training at home. This satya, śama, dama, titikṣā, ārjavam (BG 18.42), this qualification. Because naturally the children follow the father. So if the father is a real brāhmaṇa, then he naturally becomes. But if by chance he develops the śūdra quality, then he must be accepted as śūdra, not as a brāhmaṇa. That is the śāstra. Yad anyatrāpi dṛśyeta tat tenaiva vinirdiśet (SB 7.11.35). If the qualities, brahminical qualities are found somewhere else in śūdra or a vaiśya, then he should be accepted as brāhmaṇa. Similarly if śūdra qualities are found in the son of a brāhmaṇa, he should be accepted as śūdra. It is the quality, not the birth. That is not a fact. They have made it now like that. Because without any qualification, if he can become a brāhmaṇa, why he should not take the advantage?
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Everywhere, wherever we have got our center, a varṇāśrama college should be established to train four divisions: one class, brāhmaṇa; one class, kṣatriya; one class, vaiśya; and one class, śūdra.
Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: ...it will be constituted, that. Their business will be to exploit the poor citizens. And they will be embarrassed and harassed so much: by one side, no sufficient rain, and therefore scarcity of food, and the other side, taxation by the government. In this way, the people will be so much harassed that they'll give up their home and go to the forest. Very piti... Unless they take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they'll not be saved. The varṇāśrama college has to be established immediately. Everywhere, wherever we have got our center, a varṇāśrama college should be established to train four divisions: one class, brāhmaṇa; one class, kṣatriya; one class, vaiśya; and one class, śūdra. But everyone will be elevated to the spiritual platform by the spiritual activities which we have prescribed. There is no inconvenience, even for the śūdras.
In the Kali-yuga, they'll think, "Because I have changed my dress, I have become a big sannyāsī." You see? "Because I have got a sacred thread, now I am a brāhmaṇa." No. There must be regular training.
Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: Those who are śūdras, they should not be allowed to take sannyāsa. Only those who are qualified brāhmaṇas, they'll be allowed to take sannyāsa.
Bhagavān: Kṣatriyas used to take sannyāsa too?
Prabhupāda: Kṣatriyas... Some of them. Not all.
Guru dāsa: Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guru dāsa: Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja.
Prabhupāda: They did not take sannyāsa, but they left home. There is no need of accepting sannyāsa. One has to perform the devotional activities. That is real thing. Simply by changing dress, one does not improve. Unless he takes to the, seriously, principles of devotional service. But in the Kali-yuga, they'll think, "Because I have changed my dress, I have become a big sannyāsī." You see? "Because I have got a sacred thread, now I am a brāhmaṇa." No. There must be regular training. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
There are different classes of brain, so those who have very intellectual brain, they should become brāhmaṇas. Those who are fit for management and protection, they should be trained as kṣatriya.
Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: Devotional activities, either he leaves from home or not leaves, that doesn't matter. It must continue from the very beginning. For the management of affairs, we require to divide. Because there are different classes of brain, so those who have very intellectual brain, they should become brāhmaṇas. Those who are fit for management and protection, they should be trained as kṣatriya. And those who are fit for producing food, taking care of the cows, they should be trained as vaiśya. And the balance, they're all śūdras. This is the division. You... Everywhere you'll find this division, natural. One class of men, very intelligent. One class of men, very strong, good brain for management, administration. (aside) Jaya. One class of men, fit for tilling the ground, field, and produce food, take care of the cows. And the balance, śūdra. That's all. So in our society, this division should be there. The most intelligent class of men, they should be engaged in preaching, reading books and instructing, taking care of Deity worship, temple, and another class should be strong managers, that things are going on nicely.
Although you are coming from the mlecchas and yavanas, by training, you are becoming more than a brāhmaṇa.
Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: Otherwise, they are little animals with four hand, two legs, two hand, hand animals. That's all. Yes. Rejected them. Vedic civilization rejected them, mlecchas and yavanas. But they can be reformed. The process is the same. Not that because they are rejected, they cannot be reclaimed. They can be reclaimed also. Just like you are being done. Although you are coming from the mlecchas and yavanas, by training, you are becoming more than a brāhmaṇa. So there is no bar for them. Unfortunately, these rascals do not agree to accept. As soon as you say, "No more illicit sex," oh, they become angry. As soon as I say, "There is no meat-eating," they become angry. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopayati na śamayati (?). The rascals, fools, if you give them good lessons, education, they will be angry. Prakopayati na śamayati. Payaḥ pānaṁ bhujaṅgānām (?). The snake, if you give him nice milk and banana, the result will be he will increase his poison. Payaḥ pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. But Kṛṣṇa's grace, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's grace, they are being now trained up. Now you be trained up and revise the whole edition of the western civilization, especially in America. Then a new chapter will come in. This is the program. Therefore varṇāśrama school required.
Three times he must take bath at least. All the clothing, all, everything is clean. This is brahminical training. And then he must know all what is what, knowledge, and practical application, and firm faith in Kṛṣṇa. This is brāhmaṇa.
Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: Although he was so powerful and, the Yakṣa-rāja, he could give him the wealth of the whole universe. But he made that, "Thank you very much. You give me this benediction that I may remain a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa." This is Vaiṣṇava. He is doing everything, but his aim is to please Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, even if we take to varṇāśrama, we do not belong to any... Just like Kṛṣṇa says, mayā sṛṣṭam. "I have inaugurated." But Kṛṣṇa has nothing to do with varṇāśrama. Similarly, if we act as varṇāśrama, still, we have nothing to do with the varṇāśrama.
Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda, can you say something about the training for a brāhmaṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are satyaṁ śamaḥ damaḥ. He must be truthful, he must control the senses, control the mind... śamo damaḥ,... He must be tolerant. He should not be agitated in trifle matters. Satyaṁ śamo damaḥ śaucam. He must be always clean. Three times he must take bath at least. All the clothing, all, everything is clean. This is brahminical training. And then he must know all what is what, knowledge, and practical application, and firm faith in Kṛṣṇa. This is brāhmaṇa.
Hṛdayānanda: So what kind of practical work could we engage them in?
Prabhupāda: They'll be teaching. They'll be all teachers.
A class of men must be there, trained up as brāhmaṇa. Then the understanding of God consciousness will be there. Otherwise finished. So now this rascal civilization, they are simply creating śūdras.
Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad: Prabhupāda: So one must be intelligent enough to see God. Now, the bird I do not see, but I am hearing the sound. So one must know there is a nice bird. Because the varṇāśrama-dharma is lacking, nobody is being educated as a brāhmaṇa. They have lost all knowledge. Suppose in the society there is nobody educated as engineer; you don't find any engineers. So who will understand this? Unless one becomes brahminical qualified, they cannot understand. Therefore a class of men must be there, trained up as brāhmaṇa. Then the understanding of God consciousness will be there. Otherwise finished. So now this rascal civilization, they are simply creating śūdras. What they will understand? Simply śūdras. Factories and this, for technology. And because they are getting money, they are thinking, "Now we have got everything." On the money standard. Actually they have no knowledge. Just like we find a expert electrician and we pay him sufficiently, say hundred dollars, but does it mean that he has knowledge? He is expert in that śūdra's work, that's all.
The brāhmaṇas are considered to be first-class men. If one remains to the category of the fourth-class, fifth-class man, how he can be trained up as first-class man? Therefore these things are prohibited because our aim is to create some first-class men.
Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome: Prabhupāda: Yes. It is due to third-class, fourth-class men. There is no first-class men. The brāhmaṇas are considered to be first-class men, the kṣatriyas are considered to be second-class men, and the vaiśyas, they are third-class men, and rest, all fourth-class and fifth-class. So at the present moment there is third-class, some, and all fourth-class and fifth-class. There is no first-class and second-class men. So unless they are, at least some of them are first-class men, ideal, the human society is doomed. It cannot be peaceful. Full of śūdras, fourth-class men. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for creating some first-class men. This is our ideal. Therefore we forbid them not to take meat, not to have illicit sex, not to..., because these things are accepted by the fourth-class, fifth-class men: unrestricted sex life, meat-eating, intoxication, gambling. They are not to be indulged by the first-class, second-class men, even third-class. It begins from the fourth-class men. Fourth-class, fifth-class. So if one remains to the category of the fourth-class, fifth-class man, how he can be trained up as first-class man? Therefore these things are prohibited because our aim is to create some first-class men.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
One must have first of all be trained up as brāhmaṇa. Then he can understand what is God, what is soul. So there is no such training college.
Room Conversation with Psychiatrist -- February 22, 1975, Caracas: Prabhupāda: Theology is different. Not very much different, but the modern so-called theology, that is also different speculation. That is not science. There are different theologists. Science cannot be differently opinion. Two plus two is science. It is always four. Nobody can say that "In my opinion it is five," "In my opinion it is three." That is not science; that is speculation.
Lady (Hṛdayānanda): She would like to know what would be the characteristics of this brahminical class, how would they be selected and what are their qualities and so on?
Prabhupāda: Just find out this, satyaḥ śamaḥ damaḥ, titikṣa ārjavaḥ āstikyaṁ, jñānam vijñānam, brahma-karma svabhāva.
Hṛdayānanda:
- śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ
- kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca
- jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ
- brahma-karma svabhāva-jam
- (BG 18.42)
(reads translation in Spanish)
Prabhupāda: So brāhmaṇa means one who knows Brahmān, the soul. This qualification required. Just like to become a lawyer, one must be graduate. Similarly, one must have first of all be trained up as brāhmaṇa. Then he can understand what is God, what is soul. So there is no such training college. Therefore they cannot understand what is God, what is soul. That is required. Then your problems will be solved.
Just like we are training engineer, similarly, a class of men, those who are very intelligent, they should be trained up as brāhmaṇa. They should be trained up how to speak truth any circumstance.
Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London: Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Outside also you can live. Simply you must know how to live. At the present moment you do not know how to live. That's all. And there is no education how to live. All of us being sent to the slaughterhouse, that's all. They do not know how to live. In the Vedic civilization you will find the first proposition is how to live. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). How to live... First the human society is divided into four: the brāhmaṇa, the kṣatriya, the vaiśya, or the śūdra. The first-class intelligent man, they are educated as brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa means satya śama dama titikṣa ārjava, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). Just like we are training engineer, similarly, a class of men, those who are very intelligent, they should be trained up as brāhmaṇa. They should be trained up how to speak truth any circumstance. Even to the enemy he will speak truth. This requires training, not that foolishly, a cats' and dogs' life. What is the value of this life? The modern civilization, they do not know how to live.
Are doing all nonsense, and still, you are proclaiming yourself as brāhmaṇa. This should be stopped. And a training college should be there how to make a real brāhmaṇa.
Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: No, there is no need. Secular means government's duty is that "You call yourself a Hindu. Whether you are acting as Hindu? You call yourself as Muslim. Whether you are acting as Muslim?" This is government's duty. Government does not say or prefer that "You are Christian. It is not good. You become Hindu." No, that is not government's... You remain your Christian, but government's duty is that whether he is acting as Christian. This is government's duty. Not that you are acting like a something else, and you are calling yourself Christian. You are acting like a śūdra, and you are advertising yourself as a brāhmaṇa. So just like a, what is called, quack. If he writes, "Dr. something," that is punishable. But you are quack. That's all right. You can take a certificate that you have got some experience. The registered medical practitioner, I think that is... But what is this, that you are proclaiming yourself as a... (chuckles) So character means a class of men there must be, maybe very few, but they are actually men of character. Just like I am teaching them no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. This is basic principle. Otherwise, where is his character? You are doing all nonsense, and still, you are proclaiming yourself as brāhmaṇa. This should be stopped. And a training college should be there how to make a real brāhmaṇa.
If one wants to become a brāhmaṇa, then he must be properly trained up, or even if one does not want, the state should maintain a college where a real brāhmaṇa is trained up.
Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: Vānaprastha college, yes. That is the very essential thing at the present moment, that a class of men... Just like the same example: If one wants to become an engineer he must be properly trained up. If he wants to become a medical man he must be properly trained up. Similarly, if one wants to become a brāhmaṇa, then he must be properly trained up, or even if one does not want, the state should maintain a college where a real brāhmaṇa is trained up. Just like Sir Ashutosh Mukherjee, when he opened some higher studies of academic qualification, so there was one or two students, and there were three professors drawing at least twelve hundred rupees per month. So twelve hundred rupees per month, that means thirty-six hundred, expenditure, and the income is thirty-six rupees. It is not the question of money, but it is the question of culture. So even though at the present moment people are not inclined to become a brāhmaṇa, I tried it. I tried it before starting this movement. I tried to some friends that "You have got four sons. Give me one son. I shall train him how to become a perfect brāhmaṇa." Nobody agreed. They said, "Swamiji, (Hindi)," But if there is not a ideal class of brāhmaṇa, then how you can say that you become moralist? If there is no example of moralist, how you can ask people, "Become moralist"?
A regular educational institution should be there where proper training of brāhmaṇa, proper training of kṣatriya, vaiśya, must be given. These four divisions must remain there.
Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: No, that I asked him. Actually the idea is in the society as it is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). The guṇas are there. Just like naturally one is taking education just to become a politician, one is taking education how to become a high character saintly person. That natural inclination is already there, but that is not being properly harnessed. Therefore a regular educational institution should be there where proper training of brāhmaṇa, proper training of kṣatriya, vaiśya, must be given. These four divisions must remain there. And the, so far the brahminical culture, that must be there. Otherwise you cannot say that you become moralist. Where is the example of moralist? A section of person must be there, fully moralist. That ideal section is now lacking. Therefore, what I have written, that?
Brahmānanda: "As there are different sections of educational institutions, there must be one institution how to train up perfect brāhmaṇas with ideal characters as above mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā. If there is a section of people of ideal character, say 5 percent, the other 95 percent, by seeing their example, will follow. In other words, a section of the society must be of ideal character. That is essential."
Prabhupāda: So therefore this varṇāśrama college is very essential.
Varnāśrama college, that training factual brāhmaṇa. And the government should be, as I explained to you, that if one is proclaiming himself as a brāhmaṇa, he must act as a brāhmaṇa.
Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: Ah. Varnāśrama college, that training factual brāhmaṇa. And the government should be, as I explained to you, that if one is proclaiming himself as a brāhmaṇa, he must act as a brāhmaṇa. If one is proclaiming as a kṣatriya, he must act as a kṣatriya. Otherwise, there will be no restriction, and a śūdra will claim to be brāhmaṇa. That will create a disturbing situation. In Pṛthu Mahārāja's time it was strictly prohibited that... That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā, sva-dharme nidhanaṁ śreyaḥ para-dharmo bhayāvahaḥ. So if one is claiming to be brāhmaṇa he must be brāhmaṇa. That is another way of reforming the society. And nowadays everyone is a śūdra, and somebody is claiming, "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," "I am this," "I am that." Formerly the brāhmaṇas (were) strictly following. They would not accept... In the śāstras it is said that the brāhmaṇa in bad time may become a kṣatriya. Just like Dronācārya. He was brāhmaṇa, but he became a kṣatriya for certain reason, and acting like kṣatriya, although he was respected as brāhmaṇa, but he was acting as a kṣatriya. So it is advised that brāhmaṇa may take the profession of a kṣatriya and up to the vaiśya. But if he takes the profession of a śūdra, then he is fallen. Then he is fallen. So this cultural institution should now be introduced. And the other countries, they are still respectful to the Indian culture. That's a fact. I have studied. So if we keep ourself in our, what he has mentioned, samsriti?
Of course, we, in India, so far I know, nobody will come to be trained up as a brāhmaṇa. They will prefer to be trained up as an electrician and not as a brāhmaṇa.
Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: Bhāratīya samskriti. It will be very respectfully accepted. Why should we imitate them? That is... Western civilization is not brahminical culture. There is no brahminical culture. And brahminical culture is needed. That is the head. That is the brain. And a little bit of this brahminical culture, because I am distributing and they are accepting it so nicely... So in our India, in a place like Vṛndāvana, Naimisaranya, like that, many people will come, if varṇāśrama college is established. Of course, we, in India, so far I know, nobody will come to be trained up as a brāhmaṇa. They will prefer to be trained up as an electrician and not as a brāhmaṇa. Our Bon Mahārāja, he also tried for a Vaiṣṇava University. He was unsuccessful.
The priestly class, or the brāhmaṇas, they should be trained up to become truthful, how to control mind, how to control senses, and tolerant, and very learned, knowing God also—these things are required.
Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth: Prabhupāda: Our proposition is that "You priestly class, you must act exactly as a priest-ideal priest. You are a drunkard, you are woman-hunter, you are doing everything nonsense, and at the same time you are passing on as priest—this should be stopped." This should be stopped. The priestly class, or the brāhmaṇas, they should be trained up to become truthful, how to control mind, how to control senses, and tolerant, and very learned, knowing God also—these things are required. They should be the first-class, ideal men. Similarly, the kṣatriyas, they must be fearless; they must be very boldly, face fighting the enemies; they must have the capacity to govern nicely so that people will not have any complaint against the government. In this way they should be trained up. And the mercantile class of man, they should produce enough food grains, not motor tires. That is śūdra's business—artisans—that is śūdra. The vaiśyas' business is first to see that in the country there is enough food for eating—both for the human being and the animals.
A brāhmaṇa should remain independent. He should live by his qualities. People will honor him. Just like we are training. We do not serve anyone, but we are maintaining big establishment.
Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne: Prabhupāda: No. I am brāhmaṇa yes. Yes. But we are not... We do not recognize brāhmaṇa by birth. Brāhmaṇa by these qualities. Anyone who has got... This is the shastric injunction, that if the qualities are found somewhere else—that means one who is not born in a brāhmaṇa family but he has the qualities of the brāhmaṇa—then he should be accepted as a brāhmaṇa. That is shastric injunction. Yasya hi yal lakṣaṇaṁ proktaṁ varṇābhivyañjakam, yad anyatrāpi. Anyatra means elsewhere. Tat tenaiva vinirdiśet (SB 7.11.35). "He should be accepted as such." Similarly, if a man, born in brāhmaṇa family but he has the qualities of the śūdras... Paricaryātmakaṁ kāryaṁ śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Paricarya means service. To accept... (break) So therefore, according to Bhagavad-gītā, nobody is brāhmaṇa. A brāhmaṇa should remain independent. He should live by his qualities. People will honor him. Just like we are training. We do not serve anyone, but we are maintaining big establishment.
The brāhmaṇas were first-class men, ideal. But in the society there is no ideal men. One should have some example, living example, to see "Oh, here is an ideal man." So the ideal man is described here in our Bhagavad-gītā. What is the ideal? Any man can be trained up.
Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne: Prabhupāda: Otherwise the society was divided into four classes—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. The brāhmaṇas were first-class men, ideal. But in the society there is no ideal men. One should have some example, living example, to see "Oh, here is an ideal man." So the ideal man is described here in our Bhagavad-gītā. What is the ideal? Any man can be trained up. Not cent percent, but even one percent man becomes ideal, the ninety-nine percent will see and follow. But there is no ideal man. That is the defect. So just like we are training them as ideal man, by character, by religion, by behavior, by education. That is the purpose of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And you can see practically what was their previous life and what they are now. So government should establish an institution to create ideal men. We can help. We can help.
We have been training them to, how to acquire the brāhmaṇa qualification. It doesn't matter whether he is coming from Christian family or Mohammedan family.
Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu: Prabhupāda: This is classification of the human being. This is not caste system. Just like we are making this American boy a brāhmaṇa. So this is a brāhmaṇa caste?
Yogi Bhajan: No, but that is only...
Prabhupāda: We have been training them to, how to acquire the brāhmaṇa qualification. It doesn't matter whether he is coming from Christian family or Mohammedan family, this... No. Just like if you train one how to become engineer, it doesn't matter from which family he comes. It doesn't matter. Any family, he can come. He can be trained how to speak truthfulness. Satyam. What is that?
When there is attack, the brāhmaṇas are not expected to go forward; the kṣatriyas. So this is training. Everything is perfectly there.
Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu: Prabhupāda: Determination, and yuddhe ca apalāyanam. Now when there is war, these politician will remain in their room safely. They will not go to the war. And why these people are voted for political post? Formerly the king would first of all stand. To the other side also, the king is there and this side also. The fight is going on. If the king is killed, then the victory is there. Yuddhe ca apalāyanam. The formula is there. So these classes of man should be on the administration, not anyone coward, nonsense, and by hook and crook they get some vote and take the political leader... How you will find peace? The fourth class is required. Just like in your body you have got brain, brain is required. Then hand. Whenever there is some attack, consciously, unconsciously, I forward my hand. So the division is already there. If you come to attack me with a knife, I don't push my head. I push my hand. So when there is attack, the brāhmaṇas are not expected to go forward; the kṣatriyas. So this is training. Everything is perfectly there. People are not accepting. You don't require conference. You simply accept the standard knowledge. Then everything is there. I am speaking to you because you are leader of the society. So if we take Bhagavad-gītā seriously and train people from all over the world —not that Bhagavad-gītā is meant for the Hindu or for the Indians—for everyone, then there will be all right.
These rogues, by force, by device, they all occupy the government post. Formerly, Vedic, the king was trained up very nicely by the brāhmaṇas, guided by the brāhmaṇas, and they would do nicely.
Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu: Prabhupāda: ...the animals. Take, for example, the cows. If the master is Kṛṣṇa conscious they are not killed. And if the master is a rogue, they are killed. They have no knowledge how to protect themself. They take shelter of a master. So if the master is good, then their life is safe. And if the master is rogue, then they are killed. So it requires the leader. Formerly the kings were saintly, rājarṣi. Therefore there was peace. You cannot expect the mass of people very intelligent. That is not possible. They are generally in darkness. They believe that "Somebody, this man, will give us protection." But the man is treacherous. He sits down on the post of giving protection, but he kills. This is going on. Therefore if the leaders become nice, Kṛṣṇa conscious, then everything will be all right. (break) These rogues, by force, by device, they all occupy the government post. Formerly, Vedic, the king was trained up very nicely by the brāhmaṇas, guided by the brāhmaṇas, and they would do nicely. (break) ...now thousands of kings. The president, the secretary, the minister, this senator, everyone is king. Because everyone is in the business of exploitation. That's all. Formerly there was one king. Now, in the name of democracy, there are thousands of kings. And the poor citizens, they have to satisfy all of them.
At the present moment the whole human society is full of śūdras. There is no brāhmaṇas. So you have to train real brāhmaṇas.
Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles: Prabhupāda: Bahya means external, and abhyāntara means internal, not duplicity. That bahya, externally something, and internally something, that will not be successful. Bahyābhyāntaraṁ śuciḥ. Śuciḥ means purified, brāhmaṇa. And who is not purified, he is muciḥ. (break) We have to present an ideal institution, not that we make compromise with everybody. That is not our business. We don't want stars. We want moon. What is the use of millions of stars? Get one moon. That is sufficient. (break) ...not expect everyone to become brāhmaṇa. That is not possible. Because the three qualities are working, you cannot make all the population on the modes of goodness. That is not possible. There must be people in passion and ignorance. Otherwise, why Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ, four division? He could have done one kind of men. But all of them can be utilized in Kṛṣṇa consciousness if they are guided properly. Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya saṁsiddhiṁ labhate naraḥ (BG 18.46). One can get perfection, even becoming a śūdra, provided he is properly guided, not that only the brāhmaṇas can become Kṛṣṇa conscious. No. The śūdras also can become, provided he is guided by the brāhmaṇa. (break) At the present moment the whole human society is full of śūdras. There is no brāhmaṇas. So you have to train real brāhmaṇas. (break) ...how respectfully received that Sudāmā Vipra, not that because he was a caste brāhmaṇa.
You must train a class of men as brāhmaṇas. You must train a class of men as kṣatriya and a class of men as agriculturist and cow protection, and balance are workers.
Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles: Prabhupāda: Just like Arjuna, he's a kṣatriya. So Kṛṣṇa is criticizing him that "You are a kṣatriya. You have learned how to kill, and now you are hesitating? What is the nonsense?" So kṣatriyas are taught. So they have to rule over. So if required, the demons and the culprit, should immediately cut off his head, duty of the government. So all of a sudden you cannot do that. Just like in your country a young man, he has never learned how to kill and he is drawn in the draft board, "Come on. Go and kill." What he will do? He will hesitate. This is not perfect system. If you want a kṣatriya, you must train them. You must train a class of men as brāhmaṇas. You must train a class of men as kṣatriya and a class of men as agriculturist and cow protection, and balance are workers. That is cātur-varṇyam: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. But the kṣatriya or the president or the secretary, they are sitting very comfortably at our home and some poor young men—"Come on. Go and fight." What is this? What they will fight? They will die there, that's all. If he does not know how to fight, that energy is lacking, what he will do there?
We are not introducing caste system, that any rascal born in a brāhmaṇa family, he becomes a brāhmaṇa. We don't accept that. A man who is first-class trained up to become a brāhmaṇa, we accept him.
Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia: Prabhupāda: So we are trying to introduce that, that without first-class man, the society is useless. So there are first-class men. You train up. Just like a boy is intelligent; still, he requires training in the school, college. Then he maintains his first-class brain, first-class position. So there is first-class man. Now we have to train them properly how to become controller of the mind, how to become controller of the senses, how to become truthful, how to become cleansed internally, externally, how to become full of knowledge, how to try to apply the knowledge in practical life, how to become God conscious. This training is... A first-class man can take up, just like they are taking, all these boys. They had their first-class brain, and now they are being trained up. That is required, trained up first-class men. That training is required. So we are not introducing caste system, that any rascal born in a brāhmaṇa family, he becomes a brāhmaṇa. We don't accept that. A man who is first-class trained up to become a brāhmaṇa, we accept him. It doesn't matter whether he is India or Europe or America. It doesn't matter. We are trying to introduce this system. That is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā. Caste system means a man is born in a brāhmaṇa family, and if by habit he is fifth-class man, and he is accepted first-class man on account of birth. Similarly, a person, very intelligent, he can be adaptable to all first-class habit, but because he is born in a śūdra family, he is śūdra. We want to stop this nonsense. We are picking up first-class brain and training up how to become first-class men. This is our business, not that introducing this rubbish thing. No, we are not introducing. Otherwise how I am offering them sacred thread? Now just see. Anyone from India, he will understand he is a first-class brāhmaṇa. We are training like that.
You are brāhmaṇa by training. So one who is prepared to be trained as brāhmaṇa, classify him in the brāhmaṇa. One is trained up as kṣatriya, classify him.
Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg: Prabhupāda: Yes. So you make that four orders, and then society will be in order. But you are not taking Kṛṣṇa's advice. You are manufacturing your hellish ideas.
Harikeśa: No, I was just wondering how one would be able to see who was acting in a certain way unless they were first engaged in something. They have to be doing some activity...
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Harikeśa: ...so you can see what kind of quality they have.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Take "everyone is rascal," then train them. That is wanted. Take everyone as rascal. There is no question that "Here is intelligent man, here is rascal, here is the..." No. First of all take them all rascals, and then train them. That is wanted. That is wanted now. At the present moment the whole world is full of rascals. Now, if they take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, select amongst them. Just like I am training. You are brāhmaṇa by training. So one who is prepared to be trained as brāhmaṇa, classify him in the brāhmaṇa. One is trained up as kṣatriya, classify him. In this way, cātur-varṇyaṁ māyā sṛṣ...
Harikeśa: And that kṣatriya would engage everyone basically as śūdra and then pick from them.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Harikeśa: He would initially pick...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. You pick up... You take the whole mass of people as śūdra. Then...
Harikeśa: Pick out.
Prabhupāda: Pick out. And rest, who is neither brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśya, then he is śūdra. That's all, very easy thing. If he cannot be trained up as engineer, then he remains as a common man. There is no force. This is the way of organizing society. There is no force. Śūdra is also required.
It is training. How they are become brāhmaṇa? According to śāstra, they are coming from mleccha, yavana. How they have become brāhmaṇa? More than brāhmaṇa. But they are abiding by the rules.
Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg: moment, provided you agree. But you do not agree. Nobody is prepared to become a brāhmaṇa. Everyone wants to become a śūdra. This is the modern civilization.
Indian man (1): But can a person become a brāhmaṇa?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Why not?
Indian man (1): Doesn't it depend...
Prabhupāda: It is training. How they are become brāhmaṇa? According to śāstra, they are coming from mleccha, yavana. How they have become brāhmaṇa? More than brāhmaṇa. But they are abiding by the rules. You see? They are accustomed to eat meat from the very birth. They have given up. And if we request Indians, they will not give up, although their forefathers never ate meat.
Indian man (1): Does it say somewhere in the Bhagavad-gītā that we shouldn't eat meat?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Yes. Ahara-śuddhi. There are three kinds, four kinds of ahara: sattvika, rājasika, tamasika. Everything is there. The classification of ahara. Meat is tamasikāhara, fourth class. It is not first class.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
This is brāhmaṇa. This formula is there. Satya śamo damas titikṣā ārjava. So you have to see whether he is possessing this quality. Or train them.
Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: There is.... The brāhmaṇa... This is brāhmaṇa. This formula is there. Satya śamo damas titikṣā ārjava. So you have to see whether he is possessing this quality. Or train them. Have brahminical school, what I am willing to do. That is required absolutely. There must be a class of men, perfect brāhmaṇa. Otherwise society will be ruined. In the Western countries there is no brāhmaṇa. There may be some kṣatriyas and vaiśyas only, and śūdras. Brāhmaṇa there is none. So the same thing is here also now. Therefore the whole society is going down. There is no brāhmaṇa. What is this? This is brahminical culture. We are asking them not to be sinful, become devotee. This is brahminical culture. Namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca, for the benefit of brahminical culture and cow protection. That is brahminical culture.
The difficulty is the caste system is coming on account of false notion that a brāhmaṇa is the son of a brāhmaṇa. That is caste system.
Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: But it cannot be done. This is another foolishness. Because Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). But the difficulty is the caste system is coming on account of false notion that a brāhmaṇa is the son of a brāhmaṇa. That is caste system. But Kṛṣṇa does not say. He says, "By quality and work." He never says, "By birth." So this so-called castism in India that is a false notion of cātur-varṇyaṁ. Real cātur-varṇyaṁ means guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. One must be qualified. And how one is qualified? That is also described. Satya śamo damo titikṣva ārjava jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam. So there must be education. It is not that to abolish the caste system which is contaminated by false conception, or birth right conception. This wrong caste system should be abolished and training centers should be opened how to train a person to become brāhmaṇa or to become kṣatriya. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. So you cannot avoid it, but because you have misconceived the caste system, that should be abolished, and the system recommended by Kṛṣṇa, that should be taken. Otherwise you cannot avoid it. Caste system will remain.
That begins by the varṇāśrama-dharma, to select persons according to his capacity to different varṇas. Some of them selected, trained as brāhmaṇas.
Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually it is the way. That, I have already described it. It is not a sectarianism like Muslimism, Christianism or "Thisism..." Hinduism also now one of them. Actually, it is a way of life, varṇāśrama-dharma, how to become elevated to the spiritual platform. So that begins by the varṇāśrama-dharma, to select persons according to his capacity to different varṇas. Some of them selected, trained as brāhmaṇas. Some of them trained as kṣatriya, some of them as vaiśya, some of them as, remain... Those who cannot take any training, they are śūdras. So in the ways (indistinct) there must be social division not by birth, but by education. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). That we have lost. The so-called Hinduism they have lost. And because they did not follow real varṇāśrama-dharma, therefore India, so many renegades, Muslim became... Once they become Muslim, there was no reformation. But according to Vedic principle, even one is fallen, he can be raised to the highest standard. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32).
One who can take up the reformation, he can be situated as a brāhmaṇa, as a kṣatriya, as a vaiśya. This is not by birth, but by education, by training.
Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the way of life, that by reformatory process recommended in the śāstras one should be elevated to the position of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśyas, and śūdra. Śudra means one who cannot take any reformation. But one who can take up the reformation, he can be situated as a brāhmaṇa, as a kṣatriya, as a vaiśya. This is not by birth, but by education, by training. That is recommended for the all human society. Not for the Hindus or... Otherwise, why Kṛṣṇa says pāpa-yoni? Pāpa-yoni. Striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās. They are also taken as pāpa-yoni. And what to speak of the śūdras and caṇḍālas? They must be pāpa-yoni. Only the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, they are taken as highly elevated. But nowadays, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In this age you cannot distinguish who is brāhmaṇa, who is kṣatriya, who is a vaiśya, who is a śūdra. It is accepted that everyone is a śūdra because there is no reformation. So according to Pāñcarātriki-vidhi everyone should be given the chance of becoming a Vaiṣṇava, a dvija. And that is recommendation in the Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, that by the proper initiation process everyone can be brought into the platform of dvija, twice-born, and then he becomes... After initiation, his second birth is there. Saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. Then he's allowed to read the scripture. Veda-pathād bhaved vipraḥ. He becomes vipra. Then when he really comes to the knowledge of Brahman, his relationship with Brahman, and acts accordingly, then he is brāhmaṇa. And when he is perfectly situated in the eternal relationship with God, Viṣṇu, then he becomes a Vaiṣṇava. That is perfection of life.
You have to be trained up how to become first-class brain. That is brāhmaṇa.
Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore: Prabhupāda: Yes, socially you can teach how this cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), how it is scientific. In the society, if there is... Actually we have. Just like why these, maybe so-called scientists, but why the scientists are given so much importance? Because there is a brain. So if you make everyone equal, all śūdras, then who will be the brain? The brain is required. That is brāhmaṇa. So this, not this brain, this brain is śūdra brain for everyone. But when the... But just like here is Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara, or you are here. So you are not scientists from the very birth. You have been trained up how to become a scientist. Similarly, the birth is there. Whatever you may be, it doesn't matter. But you have to be trained up how to become first-class brain. That is brāhmaṇa. You have to become truthful, you have to become controller of the senses, you have to become fully aware of things, of God, everything, full knowledge, then you become brain. These people give scientists so much importance because there is brain. Brain, in the society, there must be brain. So without brain how the society can go on? If you simply produce motor mechanics, then? Brain must be there. Just like this is brain, Sanātana Gosvāmī is asking, ke āmi, kene āmāya jāre tāpa-traya.
Everyone is born innocent, child, then he's trained up by the guardians. Similarly, there should be a training how to become brāhmaṇa, how to become kṣatriya, how to become vaiśya.
Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.: Prabhupāda: And when they were attacked, they were running away. Because they are śūdras. How they can fight? They are not trained up as kṣatriyas. Huh? Anyone who is unemployed, let him become a soldier, but he cannot fight. That is not possible. Neither this class of men can have good brain to give direction to the society. The democracy means anyone can go to the government, and because he's not kṣatriya, his only business is how to get money so long he's on the post. Just like you did not like your President, Mr. Nixon. So that is the risk. If you keep the society in chaotic condition, any department, intellectual, administration, production, they'll be all topsy turvey, and there cannot be any peace in the world. So this Vedic scheme, varṇāśrama, is a very important scheme. If possible it should be introduced and taken up very seriously. That is one of the items of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, to reestablish the institution of varṇa and āśrama. Not by birth, but by qualification. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Guṇa-karma, by quality. In India, the varṇāśrama is there, but it is not organized because the government does not take care. The government is imitating Western way of life, "There is no need of brāhmaṇa, there is no need of kṣatriya, simply śūdras." Everywhere this is the position, the śūdra population, kalau śūdra sambhavaḥ. In this age everyone is a śūdra. So it doesn't matter, everyone is born śūdra, but he should be trained up. Just like in our practical life we see that everyone is not born a scientist or engineer or lawyer. Everyone is born innocent, child, then he's trained up by the guardians. Similarly, there should be a training how to become brāhmaṇa, how to become kṣatriya, how to become vaiśya. And the government should see that everyone, as he is trained up, he is working according to his quality and occupational duty. Then there will be complete peace and harmony. That human society is perfect.
A brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha—these are different groups, and if they are favorably trained up then spiritual understanding becomes very easy.
Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York: Prabhupāda: Yes, if we arrange social, political and everything favorable for spiritual understanding, then it becomes easier.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda is saying the opposite than what you hypothesized. In other words, if everything is arranged socially, politically, everything, in a God conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious manner, then it is easier to accept the principles of God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Just like... These are all discussed in the Bhagavad-gītā, what kind of social arrangement should be. That... It is called varṇāśrama-dharma. A brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha—these are different groups, and if they are favorably trained up then spiritual understanding becomes very easy.
Interviewer: Can you tell me a little bit about the future direction of the movement, how you plan to expand.
Prabhupāda: That is... That is going on already. Just like these boys, they did not know about Kṛṣṇa some years ago, but they are taking seriously. The same process, if it is continued, then people will take.
Those who are kṛpaṇa-kṛpaṇa means not brāhmaṇa—those who are not trained up as a brāhmaṇa, they cannot tolerate this itching sensation.
Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm): Prabhupāda: Itching sensation, when you itch, it is very pleasing. But bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ (SB 7.9.45). Aftereffect is very bad, suffering. Itching, if you itch more, it aggravates, sometimes causes so many other by-products and so on, so on. That is fact. But everyone knows it, that "I may enjoy sex pleasure now; the aftereffect will be very bad." Bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. But why people do it again and again? Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. Those who are kṛpaṇa-kṛpaṇa means not brāhmaṇa—those who are not trained up as a brāhmaṇa, they cannot tolerate this itching sensation. They become victimized and the aftereffect is very, very bad. So either illicit or not illicit... They know it. The modern civilization, they have adopted the means of killing. First of all, they try to stop pregnancy by contraceptive method, and still if it is not stopped, then kill. And if he's still born, then again they put up in a box and go away. You know this?
You do not train brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. So anyone who is in power, he is good. That is Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means anyone gets vote, he's in power. They can misuse the power. There is no kṣatriya.
Morning Walk -- August 14, 1976, Bombay: Prabhupāda: Yes. No, it was their propaganda, Macauley's, that "If you keep Indians as Indians, you'll never be able to rule over them." So British policy was to make propaganda so that "everything Indian is bad."
Dr. Patel: I think Max Mueller (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: No, it was necessary for them to Anglicize the Indians to rule over them.
Dr. Patel: Our differential, or (Hindi) has created all this rot.
Prabhupāda: It is not our, it is human society's.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) We allowed everyone to be here unawares. If public corporation, trading company, becomes the ruler of this country, I don't understand how it could be.
Prabhupāda: Because we have no, that cātur-varṇa system. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). You have given up Kṛṣṇa's instruction, now you have to suffer. You do not train brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. So anyone who is in power, he is good. That is Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means anyone gets vote, he's in power. They can misuse the power. There is no kṣatriya.
Where is that brāhmaṇa, where is that kṣatriya, where is that system? Now anyone can capture the political power by hook and crook, that is another thing. But it is meant for the rājarṣi, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. Where is their training? The politician, where he is trained up as ṛṣi?
Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad: Prabhupāda: No. Politician, of course, it is, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). This system, this science, was understood by the rājarṣi, kings who were as good as ṛṣis, rājarṣis. So where is that politician, politician as good as a ṛṣi? That is the difficulty. It is meant for rājarṣi. Rāja and ṛṣi. Just like Janaka Mahārāja, Parīkṣit Mahārāja, Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja, Prahlāda Mahārāja, they were kings, but they were at the same time so great and saintly, they were called rājarṣi, and this is a subject matter for the rājarṣis. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1), manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt, uh...
Harikeśa: Vivasvān manave prāha.
Prabhupāda: Ah, vivasvān manave prāha manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). So where is rājarṣi? That is the difficulty. Where is that brāhmaṇa, where is that kṣatriya, where is that system? Now anyone can capture the political power by hook and crook, that is another thing. But it is meant for the rājarṣi, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. Where is their training? The politician, where he is trained up as ṛṣi? There is no such service.
Therefore I say that there must be educational institution for training brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya especially. And vaiśyas, they do not require any academical area.
Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad: Prabhupāda: Yad anyatra. If the quality of brāhmaṇa is found in a person who is born in a śūdra family, he should be accepted as brāhmaṇa. Similarly, if the quality of brāhmaṇa is found in śūdra or the śūdra quality found in brāhmaṇa, I mean to say birth, by caste, as it is going on now, so Nārada Muni has said... This is the statement of Nārada Muni, the greatest authority. Yad anyatrāpi dṛśyeta tat tenaiva vinirdiśet (SB 7.11.35). So birth is not the final thing. If one is born in a brāhmaṇa family or kṣatriya family, he has got the facility to become quickly a brāhmaṇa; but if he has no quality, if he does not practice, then he is not to be accepted as brāhmaṇa. You may be a son of a high-court judge, but unless you have got the quality of high-court judge, it is not that because you are born of high-court judge you become a high-court judge. That is not, that is not the quality. The quality is... So therefore I say that there must be educational institution for training brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya especially. And vaiśyas, they do not require any academical area. Kṛṣi-gorakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (Bg 18.44). They can learn simply by associating with another vaiśya. But brāhmaṇa, especially require education, Vedic literature. Paṭhana-pāṭhana-yajana-yājana-dāna-pratigrahaḥ. Kṣatriya also requires education. Others, they may not require education. Practical training. These things should be introduced. Then human society will be perfect. Not by birth, but by quality, by education, by training. But that is possible.
The Vedas are meant for the brāhmaṇas. So there is no brāhmaṇa practically. Neither there is training of brāhmaṇas. Brāhmaṇa means he must speak truth.
Room Conversation with Endowments Commissioner of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad: Prabhupāda: But kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. The Vedas are meant for the brāhmaṇas. So there is no brāhmaṇa practically. Neither there is training of brāhmaṇas. Brāhmaṇa means he must speak truth. Satyā śama dama titik—and if you ask nowadays anybody that "You don't speak lie, you speak truth," he will laugh, that "What a rascal this is. By speaking truth one can live nowadays?" he will say. The first business is satyam. And if you ask him, "You speak truth," he will laugh. So where is brāhmaṇa? A brāhmaṇa is so simple that if you ask him about his secrecy, he'll tell you, "Yes, this is..." Satyam. Just like Jābāli? Upaniṣad, he was asked, he went to Gautama Muni. Satyaka, yes, for initiation. Gautama Muni asked him, "Who is your father?" He said, "I do not know." "Go to your mother." He went to the mother. Mother said, "Oh, my dear son, I do not know." He was a prostitute's son. So he came to Gautama Muni and said, "Sir, my mother does not know, I do not know." So he said, "You are a brāhmaṇa. Because you don't keep any secrecy you are brāhmaṇa. I'll initiate." So it is not the birth, but the quality-truthful. But these qualities will come when you make him a devotee.
They said that "This child will be like this"—exactly he became. Parīkṣid dvija-varya-śikṣayā, and being trained up by first-class brāhmaṇas, and the child came perfectly the king. Where is that king?
Room Conversation -- September 17, 1976, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: What is that big? Maybe four feet, five, yes. Otherwise kalpana. It it is not within his "feet" estimation, then he's kalpana, imagination. This is their knowledge. (indistinct) I can think of three feet, four feet, five feet, ten feet, hundred feet-like that. And when I'm informed, "No, no, it is unlimited feet." Ah, this is kalpana. This is going on. So what other news? I have to send one letter to the governor. (break) Sūtyām abhijāta-kovidāḥ. Yathā hi sūtyām abhijāta-kovidāḥ samādiśan vipra mahad-guṇas tathā. Where this class of literature is now. Yathā sūtyām, in the maternity home or maternity room, Sūtyām. Abhijāta-kovidāḥ. The astrologers who can estimate the newly born child's destiny. Whatever they predicted, according to them, yathā hi sūtyām abhijāta-kovidāḥ samādiśan. They said that "This child will be like this"—exactly he became. Parīkṣid dvija-varya-śikṣayā, and being trained up by first-class brāhmaṇas, and the child came perfectly the king. Where is that king?
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
The modern society, they do not want brāhmaṇas, neither anybody interested to become a brāhmaṇa. That is animal society. You cannot ask a dog, "Please come here. I shall train you as a brāhmaṇa."
Morning Walk -- January 4, 1977, Bombay: Prabhupāda: Yes. What can be done? There is no kṣatriyas.
Dr. Patel: They... You see, they govern for themselves, and not for people.
Prabhupāda: There is no brāhmaṇa in the society.
Dr. Patel: If they are there, they are not well-off.
Prabhupāda: No, there are. Just like we are creating these brāhmaṇas all over the world; not many, but some of them. There is at least one ideal class. But the modern society, they do not want brāhmaṇas, neither anybody interested to become a brāhmaṇa. That is animal society. You cannot ask a dog, "Please come here. I shall train you as a brāhmaṇa." (laughter) That is not possible.
Dr. Patel: Our mixing with the Western type of society...
Prabhupāda: Western, Eastern, we don't...
Dr. Patel: We have actually imbibed their spirit of special, I mean, arrangement or management. Otherwise, up to the other day, we were well-classified. After doing that fifty or hundred years, perhaps, we have lost our real mooring.
Prabhupāda: No. It is necessary that in the society all classes of men must be there. Then it will be in order, on order.
They were trained by the first-class brāhmaṇas, saintly persons. They abided by their order. There was committee, advisory committee.
Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara: Prabhupāda: They were trained by the first-class brāhmaṇas, saintly persons. They abided by their order. There was committee, advisory committee. Even at the time of his death, he's asking advice from the saintly..., "What is my duty?" That is king. He's not doing anything whimsically. And the first-class man should be first-class. Then second-class man, executive, kṣatriyas, they will force: "You must do it!" And then the third class, they should produce and carry out the order of the second class, king. And fourth class, they cannot do anything. Let them serve everyone, that's all, śūdras. They have no intelligence. But everyone is important, cooperatively. This is society. You require also legs; you require also heads. Simply heads will not help you. Head will give instruction, "Leg, please walk in this way." That's all, legs will move. He carries me. "Hands, give me protection." Immediately, "Yes!" A bad somebody(?) "Come on." Yes. Coming. "Belly, you produce food, sufficient, so that the legs, hands and brain, everyone will be provided with sufficient..." This way. This is society. All third-class, fourth-class men, simply going to the factory, and they are making laws. This is... What is called? Chaos. Chaotic society, no brain.
The varṇāśrama college is required to train people who is able to become a brāhmaṇa, who is able to become a kṣatriya, who is able to become... In this way division must be.
Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura: Prabhupāda: There cannot be exploitation if things are made in order. Just like kṣatriya should be trained up as kṣatriya. Then he is king. Not that a bhangi by vote becomes a king. This is education.
- śauryaṁ tejo dhṛtir dākṣyaṁ
- yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam
- dānam īśvara-bhāvaś ca
- kṣātraṁ karma svabhāva-jam
- (BG 18.43)
He must be very powerful, very strong, strongly built. You have seen the picture, Rāmacandra? Sturdy body. You see. Lakṣmaṇa. Because kṣatriya. They should be trained up as kṣatriya. Therefore the varṇāśrama college is required to train people who is able to become a brāhmaṇa, who is able to become a kṣatriya, who is able to become... In this way division must be. And according to the quality and work there must be division for cooperation. There is a big scheme. They have lost. They do not know. All bhangis, camara, śūdras, they are simply given vote. That's all. Where is the training?
Some of them should be trained up as brāhmaṇa. Some of them should be trained up as kṣatriya, some of them as vaiśya. They are required.
Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay: Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa condemned it, kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam: "You are trying to become nonviolent." And Gandhi became more than Kṛṣṇa, nonviolent. What is this nonsense? Kṛṣṇa chastised Arjuna, kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam, anārya-juṣṭam: "These things are spoken by the anāryas, not by the Aryans."
Mr. Dwivedi: No, He advised, quite right, hato vā prāpsyasi svargaṁ jitvā vā bhokṣyase mahīm, tasmāt...
Prabhupāda: No, no, in politics, when you deal in politics there is no question... Kṣatriya therefore. These things should be trained up. Some of them should be trained up as brāhmaṇa. Some of them should be trained up as kṣatriya, some of them as vaiśya. They are required. So these things we want to organize. We can give you instruction. We can give you help. Now you have to do it, the leading... But it will be done. If you follow our instruction, it will be done. So the buildings are there.
Only brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, those who are being trained up as brāhmaṇa and kṣatriya, they should be given book education. Otherwise practical. You see how the things are being done.
Gurukula Inspection -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: Train them how to become self-controlled, how to become God conscious, how to become humble, obedient. This is required. And so-called education and last result is to become a hippie, what is the use? Simply waste of time. Education is meant for the first-class men. A kṛṣana does not require education. He should see how to plow, and he'll learn. This mistri does not require any... He should work with other mistri, and he'll learn. Architecture, this, that, so many... Why? Why waste your time? This nice building has been constructed by these laborers. They have got training by seeing, by practice. They did not require university education. Of course, guide is there. Of course... So these big, big universities, allowing everyone to come and join school, college—simply wasting time and unemployment. Unemployment. This is not required. Only brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, those who are being trained up as brāhmaṇa and kṣatriya, they should be given book education. Otherwise practical. You see how the things are being done. Bas. A weaver, he sees "Kat, kat, kat." He's got it.
