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Bombay (Conversations 1977 Jan - Apr)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Miscreant. They are called duṣkṛti. They have got merit, but engaged in sinful activities. That is called duṣkṛti. Kṛti means meritorious. But duṣkṛtina. There are now... The education is there, but their brain is misused. That is called duṣkṛtina. Therefore they do not believe in God. Big, big men, they are nirākāra-vādī.

Dr. Patel: This co-education is no education at all. Education, that was really imparted by (indistinct) and ...

Prabhupāda: Education... This is craftsmanship.

Dr. Patel: I had an appointment to speak on education in the university of Bombay as a member of the Senate. And all the members of the Senate simply said, "Well, we could not help it because it has been so planned by the government." That is not ... This is not education that we're giving them. We are just giving them instruction how to read and write. The real education is the education of the mind by which you can discriminate what is right from the wrong and follow the right. That is what for the education. Modern universities are humbugness to me... The way I observed the university of Bombay working for ten years as a member of the Senate is humbug. The curricular is humbug; management is humbug; everything. Mode of examination is also like that.

Prabhupāda: Because they are not conducted by really educated.

Letter to Russian -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So it has come from Delhi?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So give the Delhi address, embassy.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I have told them that we don't have any Bhaktivedanta Book Trust offices in Bombay because I did not want them to visit our... I told them our Bhaktivedanta Book Trust office is in Bombay, because then he would have said, "I'll come and visit you in your office" and then he would have come to the temple. So we don't want to show any connection with ISKCON for Bhaktivedanta Book Trust.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Because then they'll find out it's religion and they will stop it at once.

Prabhupāda: As soon as he reads the book, he will find, according to them...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, what I told the Russians was that ISKCON buys all the books from Bhaktivedanta Book Trust.

Prabhupāda: Just keep that position. What is...?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I mean we have to keep it...

Prabhupāda: But we have got pictures of God, and with every page there is Kṛṣṇa, and how you can hide it? That is another foolishness. Every page, there is Kṛṣṇa, and there is nothing but Kṛṣṇa.

Letter to Russian -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That you do not know very much.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I was going to present it to some scholar and then to you. This man I brought today, that assistant editor, I think he will help. I can gradually give him work, and he's in Bombay. His Hindi is very good. He's assistant editor, so...

Prabhupāda: So you do that. Get the help of composition and monotype.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. This is the biggest... The Teachings of Lord Caitanya I gave for composing four months ago, and still they're going so slow.

Prabhupāda: The hand set-up is not...?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but in Delhi I could not find any. The only one in Delhi who has mono is Times of India, and it's very difficult to get it done. So I had no alternative.

Prabhupāda: In Calcutta there are many.

Letter to Russian -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: In Calcutta there are many.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I found out that in Allahabad there are a lot for Hindi. But then we had to have somebody over there.

Prabhupāda: Allahabad.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, one devotee or someone who will supervise that. I suspect Bombay will be much more expensive, but I want to check. Tomorrow I'll check it.

Prabhupāda: Allahabad, we are going.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. But right now is Kumbhamela in Allahabad, everything's going to be in so much rush, it's going to be hard to do any business.

Prabhupāda: No, businessmen are there all right. I was doing that business. So in my shop they..., visitors used to come there.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That shop. (pause) Śrīla Prabhupāda, this morning Rāmeśvara Mahārāja and Hṛdayānanda Mahārāja spoke to me.

Prabhupāda: I have heard that. That's good idea.

Letter to Russian -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So arrange.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There are too many people here. We don't need that many in Bombay for the Bombay construction.

Prabhupāda: So let him come to Bhuvaneśvara. I am going after Kumbhamela. And begin the work immediately. We have got one gentleman, professor. He is good learned scholar. I can engage him for translating.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oriya. Very nice.

Prabhupāda: He has writing... That machine... I can see the manuscript. In this way, arrangement make.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good. We just printed two books in Oriya, Topmost Yoga and one more. One more.

Prabhupāda: He likes Oriya language.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Who? Gaura-Govinda Swami? He is very sincere devotee.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, undoubtedly.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Very sincere.

Roof Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Bengali is not at all very difficult.

Mr. Gupta: No, not at all. Once upon a time I could read and write. But it's just out of touch.

Prabhupāda: The Calcutta Marwaris, they speak very fluently. Yes.

Mr. Gupta: Fluently. Being in railways I've had about eight cross-country transfers. Rajkot, Ajmer, Bombay, Ahmedabad, Lohar(?). So I know as much of Gujarati and Marwari too.

Prabhupāda: Rajastani?

Mr. Gupta: Rajastani. Hindi is the mother tongue for Rajastani.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hindi is understood everywhere. (break) ...Bhagavad-gītā, what you have learned?

Mr. Gupta: The only thing that I have been able to learn is we... I was told so, quite.(?) By keeping our mind and heart strict, we should do our work as belonging to best āśrama as best as possible. But the human beings tend to twist "as best as possible" in their own way. And that... When the realization comes... (break)

Prabhupāda: Do you realize that the modern civilization is misguided? (break) ...is the quintessence of Bhagavad-gītā. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7). Glāniḥ. The people are misguided. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. He's Dr. Patel. He's Mr. Gupta, a railway officer. He arranged for our tickets.

Roof Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Fifty years before, when I was in Allahabad, 1920's, there was Kumbhamela. Then forty lakhs people came, fifty years ago.

Dr. Patel: With poor transport then. That transport was not so efficient as it is today, no? More trains and more...

Prabhupāda: No, the Bombay Mail was there, and I think this Kashi Express was not there.

Dr. Patel: Kashi Express is a new.

Prabhupāda: Not very new. That is also not very...

Mr. Gupta: About fifteen years old.

Prabhupāda: Fifteen years.

Dr. Patel: Kashi Express goes to Allahabad and comes back to Benares. I have gone by that train.

Mr. Gupta: Actually Kashi Express was introduced before last Kumbhamela.

Prabhupāda: No, no. No, Kashi Express goes to Allahabad; then, from Allahabad, there is a straight line from Benares, to Benares. Then it goes to Mugger(?) side. Kashi Express, it goes up to Kashi or not?

Mr. Gupta: Up to Kashi.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: At that time in India it was eight thousand rupees only, very strong car.

Trivikrama: From America it came?

Prabhupāda: Yes, American cars were selling during British days, Ford, Buick, Chevrolet. These cars were selling. Dodge. In 1925 I purchased one Buick car, eight thousand rupees.

Dr. Patel: Small cars were everywhere 1700 rupees in 1936-37.

Prabhupāda: And Ford car was very cheap.

Dr. Patel: Thirty-two hundred rupees. V8 Ford cars were sold in Bombay market for thirty-two hundred rupees, three thousand two hundred. Now you send a car for repairs, the bill will be six thousand, seven thousand rupees.

Prabhupāda: What can be done? Things have gone high, I was calculating the other day, twenty times.

Hari-śauri: Thirty times.

Dr. Patel: More than that. Thirty times, yes.

Prabhupāda: Thirty times, yes. My father's income was from 250 to 300, and we were living very comfortably.

Jagadīśa: A month?

Prabhupāda: Per month.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Not... No, another Indian leader. He's a Marwari brāhmaṇa.

Dr. Patel: Parsee would never eat beef, sir, huh? I heard they are...

Prabhupāda: No, no. They are eating everything.

Dr. Patel: They don't eat beef.

Prabhupāda: I know. They are eating. They eat everything. I have seen one Parsee here in Bombay. He is chanting and getting one chicken cut throat by the man. And he's cutting. He gave in a paper and he took it away. And he's chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. (Dr. Patel laughs loudly) Not Hare Kṛṣṇa, but... They have got all their chants. They have got their chanting. And I have seen their kitchen. It is more dirty than the toilet.

Dr. Patel: Filthiest thing. Most dirty kitchens are the Muslims, very horrible thing. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...day one Hindi gentleman came. He presented a picture, India's map, and all the whole India is full of avatāras: Vivekananda, Ramakrishna, this, that. This is India.

Dr. Patel: They might be vibhūtis. You can call them, but...

Prabhupāda: No, no, same thing. What vibhūtis they have got? Vibhūti of cheating, that's all. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: They are vibhūti anyhow.

Prabhupāda: They have got some vibhūti, how to cheat. This vibhūti they have got.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So that is... That... That gift is given by God to everyone. That does not mean one is Bhagavān.

Jagadīśa: Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the cheating of cheats."

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Dr. Patel: The greatest number, sir, is being carried out here in Bombay some fifty miles away by this Muktananda Swami. His statue is being worship as, in place of God by...

Prabhupāda: Sai Baba is also. Sai Baba is also doing, Satya Sai.

Dr. Patel: They say that they are worshiping the guru as God. And why not as their guru?

Prabhupāda: Rajaneesh. Rajneesh

Dr. Patel: Rajneesh calls himself Bhagavān, that man.

Prabhupāda: He also says, "Bhagavān."

Dr. Patel: He's doing a sort of mass hypnotism to my mind. Psychologically I try to analyze him.

Prabhupāda: Without analyzing, we take him as rogue. (laughter) That's all.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I have got many invitations from friends. I can live in the home, house. That depends on my... Either in the tent or a mile, two miles away.

Dr. Patel: When you go out after leaving some friend's house, it will be very difficult to come out because of the cold. It will be as big as Bombay practically, this Kumbhamela, at least twenty-five lakhs or thirty lakhs. It will be as big as cold. (?)

Prabhupāda: No, space is also.

Dr. Patel: I'll tell one of the friends to get me some water on that day. I'll take bath here. (laughs) I had gone to Allahabad once only.

Prabhupāda: Only?

Dr. Patel: We have not had the chance to go there. Delhi also. I've never gone to the Delhi also. Therefore it was calling me. I have seen Delhi in 1939. After that, I have never gone.

Prabhupāda: My family life was in Allahabad, 1923 to 1936 continually. I used to come to Bombay from Allahabad for business. And I was staying in that hotel, Empire Hindu Hotel. Yes, very nice. At that time it was very nice.

Dr. Patel: That is the hotel where Lokamane(?) Tilak died. He was staying there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is modern standard, very nice hotel, still good hotel.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (1): Guru finds you.

Prabhupāda: Not guru finds you. You have to find out guru. Guru is there. Guru is there. But if you want to be cheated, then you find out. And if you want to be cheated, the cheaters will... Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpa. If you are actually serious to serve Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa will give you: "Here is guru." Guru is there. Guru is there, but unless you are actually serious, you cannot get real guru. If you want to be cheated or if you are a cheater, then you'll get a cheater guru. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Give prasāda. Bring prasāda. Now we go to guru for some medical help. We go to guru for some economic development. So you'll get cheater. That's all.

Guest (1): But how to engage these people who are desirous who have desire of serving Kṛṣṇa in Bombay? If you are talking about a farm and other things...

Prabhupāda: Then why we have constructed this?

Guest (1): No, here people will not come because the people are not going business or anything, but people him, people like him, people like this, how they can engage...

Prabhupāda: They can come at least weekend and learn. There are so many books.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh! Hare Kṛṣṇa! Come on. Just now coming?

Haṁsadūta: Yes. Just now. We came by truck.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So everything is all right?

Haṁsadūta: Well, everything is all right. I came because I have to pick up one truck which was... It was in an accident, and it was repaired, so we have to pick that up. So I thought I would come to Bombay and also see Your Divine Grace. I heard you're not feeling well.

Prabhupāda: No. So? When you started from there?

Haṁsadūta: We started eleven o'clock yesterday, eleven o'clock in the afternoon, and we spent one night in Shalampur, a nice town. We did some kīrtana in a Dvārakādhīśa temple, very nice temple. And we stayed with the owner of a trucking company. A very nice place. You look so handsome, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: (clears throat) So, how business is going there?

Haṁsadūta: Well, there's no money, so not much can be done.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So...

Haṁsadūta: From that money, nothing has been spent yet except five thousand rupees which went for the first well which was dug, which is not particularly good. They went to a 105 feet, and the well is suitable for about three acres of land. Now, since just this small trip that I made from Hyderabad to Bombay, I can understand the reason that nothing is growing in that part. It's because there's no water. Even if you dig, you don't get much water. That big square well, which is already there right behind the gośālā, there is no water in it. It does not fill up. It doesn't fill up. It's not the kind of well you pump out and then it fills up.

Guest (6) (Indian man): I could not go because without discussing this farm in Bombay.

Prabhupāda: All right, you take rest.

Haṁsadūta: I'm not tired. I can... (break) The signatures were just a... (break)

Guest (6): Prabhu was telling about the Bombay farm now... (break)

Prabhupāda: First of all we must attract people, then give them prasāda. If you have no power to attract them, then how..., what is the position? Program means men will do. If there is no men, who will do this program?

Girirāja: In that area, in Thana, they drink at night.

Prabhupāda: Let them do whatever nonsense they are doing. Let them chant and take prasāda. We don't mind what they are doing. That is later on. When I was chanting in Tompkinson Park I never asked them that "Don't come here. You are drinking." Everyone was drinking. (laughs) I know that. Everyone had illicit sex. They were coming with their boyfriend, girlfriend. I didn't know that? Was I going to restrict them from? Let them come, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu stressed on this, mass kīrtana every night. He was not speaking philosophy. Philosophy with Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, not with the mass of people. Mass of people—"Come on! Chant!" Give prasāda. This was Caitan... What they will understand, philosophy?

Girirāja: They won't understand.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So why you are bothering about that?

Girirāja: That's what I say. We have stood...

Prabhupāda: Gopāla is bothering too much about...

Mr. Asnani: No, Prabhupāda, with your blessings, I know the Assistant Commissioner, and he is number three or four in entire city of Bombay and a very much influential center. He's a courageous man also. He's a sarvaji(?). And if I will place this problem before him as and when it is necessary, he is there to guide us.

Prabhupāda: So first of all where is the necessity? I have been talking...

Mr. Asnani: Why create a problem? Today the problem is not before us.

Girirāja: The thing is that the same constitution we've had since the beginning, and we've always got the exemption...

Prabhupāda: Yes. And why you are bothering? He's going Delhi?

Girirāja: Even last time the Assistant Commissioner...

Mr. Asnani: Who is there in Delhi, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: This Gopāla Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: What is the age?

Guest (2): He is twelve years.

Prabhupāda: Only? That's all. What does he say?

Guest (2): What do you say? He has... He is now in my car. I brought him from Bombay.

Prabhupāda: So you are living there or what?

Guest (2): They were staying here. They could not get subsequent accommodations. We have shifted to some hotel here, near Juhu.

Prabhupāda: Hotel? There is no sufficient place here?

Devotee: He was here, but there were many many life members.

Guest (2): Many life members were here, and so there was not accommodation. So they were told or they voluntarily shifted to the hotel. Because many life members came from abroad here on Christmas, and all that. So therefore the accommodation was not there, so some shifted in Juhu. Some hotel. They come here every day.

Prabhupāda: No... Your woman you can live together.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (2): Things are going very good for our movement here. Other day I was with one Air India officer, and I told him, "Why don't you attract more tourists and show pictures of Hare Kṛṣṇa and what our activities in India?" To attract more tourists by giving our activities in India. They said we will discuss. They will be discussing with me in the... And of course I will take Girirāja and Gopāla Kṛṣṇa. And one school which is a very famous school in Bombay, center of the city where all the affluent people are staying—that school is very big school, good school—they have agreed that once in a week we can give you forty-five minutes to your...

Prabhupāda: Saṅkīrtana.

Guest (2): Saṅkīrtana. So this I will be discussing with Gopāla Kṛṣṇa. And there are about 1500 students in that school from...

Prabhupāda: Kīrtana can be performed. So the movie, how long it is?

Bhavabhūtī: It's a one and a half hour movie, and we're in about eight minutes of it.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Eight minutes. Showing our books? That I want. Let them read our books. Then they'll understand what we are.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No one will. It is not at all difficult. The principles, the regulation we have started, it will automatically bring them to that stage.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: When one chants sincerely and attends all the temple programs, then automatically one...

Prabhupāda: (sharp rapping sound: light switch flicking on and off) No electricity. Stop this fan.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Stop the fan? Śrīla Prabhupāda, I may not be going to the Kumbhamela. I'm going to stay in Bombay and later on go to Delhi and Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. There is Gurudāsa and there others.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Because there's lot of work to do, and I'm printing lot of books now, so...

Prabhupāda: No, you stay here.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Plus there's lot of income tax. The income tax is so bad, the government laws, that ISKCON cannot even sell books. Even if we sell books we are considered to be a profit-making organization. We can give books away for a donation but not sell it. They are such... Tomorrow our auditor is coming on site. He's coming with two, one income tax lawyer, who is our new lawyer now. Very nice man.

Prabhupāda: So you want to keep there? (end)

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Let her come.

Hari-śauri: She was just trying to put them on.

Prabhupāda: So there is no woman here?

Devotee (1): No.

Prabhupāda: She can help her tilaka. Call Pālikā.

Jagadīśa: Tilaka is already on.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (pause) I think Mathura train also goes early in the morning. You have taken before?

Jagadīśa: Not from Bombay.

Prabhupāda: Two, three train goes, one Frontier Mail, one Deluxe Express and another-three trains for Delhi. It takes, altogether, from here to Delhi, nineteen hours. And Mathura, still two hours less. And from Mathura it is six miles. There are buses, ricksha.

Hari-śauri: There's a woman coming now to put on her neckbeads. (end)

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Gurudāsa: In small villages food grows out of the ground.

Dr. Patel: They don't want to grow. They want to just give up, go to here.

Gurudāsa: That is an anomaly.

Dr. Patel: I tell you, this vicious propaganda of the government... I have got a small hill, fifteen bigas, on a highway, Bombay highway, with canal waters irrigating my land and a well with pump and everything. Last year we spent nine thousand rupees on fertilizer and all things and other paraphernalia, and pay for the servants. And they got paddy worth six thousand rupees.

Prabhupāda: Three thousand lost.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: No, you can't. You have in the market. No, I cannot eat even this much because I can't bring it here to Bombay. There is a barrier. You can't export from one place to another. This is the government. And our rice is just like the (indistinct) quality.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: You go and eat there. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: But I don't go there to eat it. These government regulations are very bad. I don't think they would be able to...

Gurudāsa: It's your own right to...

Dr. Patel: He thought that India is spoiled by American policy, Mr. Dulles's. And he spoiled the pitch, this Mr. Nehru, Nehru, being a flamboyant, highly arrogant man... And then they supported Pakistan, and Americans lost lot of money on these small wars. Instead of that, much money was given away to a poor country. it was Dulles who got United States to this present condition. We should have insulated this country after svaraj, not selling anything, not taking anything. Produce yourself or starve and die. People don't work when they get food like that.

Prabhupāda: I am simply surprised when I compare British days and nowadays. My practical experience—one of my maternal uncles, he's a very big, rich man. He was; he is not existing. So he was doing business, rice exporting. So in Calcutta, Chetra side, he had big, big godown full of rice. Not only he, other merchants also. But now they are empty. Similarly, from Bombay the oil seeds are being exported.

Arrival of BBT Manager -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is not very important. "All over the world" means it is understood in all other languages. Otherwise how they are reading?

Rāmeśvara: In Europe when men go to the libraries, sometimes they don't speak English. So they're already taking standing orders for the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in French and other languages.

Prabhupāda: So make this immediately.

Rāmeśvara: This is the notice of the money we just sent to Bombay from Los Angeles, seventy thousand dollars.

Prabhupāda: So now do the needful about this. And the invoice? You have sent the books?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So these books are there?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Now I have everything in stock. We have everything.

Prabhupāda: And which we have not got stock you print here. Keep for sufficient stock, in this way. So I was asking last night that at least in Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, simply whatever collection is there, fifty percent print books and fifty percent spend for temple or for pushing on the books. No money available. Bas.

Arrival of BBT Manager -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's all. (laughs) Then do it now. And I shall spend all this money for advertisement. That's all.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: One of the biggest bookstores in Bombay, International Book House, has arranged a whole window display of your books.

Prabhupāda: That is useless.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Many people were seeing it.

Prabhupāda: Useless. I know these men. But you can get some customers. That's all right. Do they purchase or simply display?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No. They purchase also.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Rāmeśvara: Actually in Belgium the National Museum has also set up in their main window a display of your books. And that's very good for a museum, because they do not sell there, but they are considering it so important and scholarly that they are displaying them for the public to see.

Prabhupāda: That is good recommendation, yes. If that museum is so important, so to keep our books there is prestigious. In Europe, America, it is going on nice. Now here we have to take advantage of these papers. So I have already given Jagadīśa the idea. Now you immediately put into effect. You keep that also with your papers, this format. Yes.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Faith. Yes. Faith means firm faith. Faith does not mean... Anyway, ādau śraddhā. This śraddhā, if we increase this śraddhā, you have to associate with sādhu.. And who is sādhu? Bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva samantavyaḥ. He is sādhu, who is simply engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. He is sādhu. Api cet sudurācāraḥ: "Even though you find there is some discrepancies in his character, because he is fully engaged in My service, he is sādhu." Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ samyag vyavasito hi saḥ (BG 9.30). If he has got other engagement, he is not sādhu. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam: (Brs. 1.1.11) "Other engagement zero." That is sādhu. The sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83). You have to associate with such sādhus who are cent percent engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. Ādau śraddhā tato sādhu-saṅgaḥ tato bhajana-kriyā. If you mix with the sādhu, then you'll learn the activities. Sādhu-mārgānugamanam. The sādhus are rising early in the morning; they are attending maṅgala ārati, they are reading Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, then dressing the Deity and having ārati and so on, so on, so on. This is called bhajana-kriyā. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). Then anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt: then all these material activities will stop. Because if you are engaged in spiritual act..., where is your time for material activities, for drinking wine and eating meat and going to the restaurant and...? No time. These boys, although they are trained up from childhood how to eat meat, how to drink, but now they have no time. They never ask me, "Swamiji, give me one rupee. I shall go to the cinema." Never. They have no time. Anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt, all anarthas finished. These are the stages. Then his life becomes of devotion. Athāsaktiḥ niṣṭhā: "Yes, I shall stick to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Tato niṣṭhā ruciḥ. Ruciḥ means taste. Unless they have got taste, why they should remain with me? They are not coming from poor family. His father is a big lawyer. You know? Yes. So why he is living with me? He has got taste, rucis. Tato niṣṭhā tato ruciḥ, athāsaktiḥ. Asaktiḥ, attachment. Whenever I am there, they are coming. Asaktiḥ. Tato bhāvaḥ. "Oh, I am servant of Kṛṣṇa. I have to do this." These are the different stages. Sādhakānām ayaṁ premṇaḥ prādurbhāve bhavet kramaḥ. These are the different stages, kramaḥ. Kramaḥ means gradual evolution. So you have to take that gradual evolution. But it will be done if you remain with the associate. Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. They are giving this opportunity. Come here in our association and learn the art. I have seen in Bombay. The other day I went to a gentleman's apartment. He is.... The gentleman is earning two thousand, and the wife is earning seven hundred. But they are living in an apartment of this size. Within this, there is bedroom, and there is kitchen, and there is toilet, and everything is there. And if we say people, "Please come here. Take a room like this and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," they'll not come. They'll prefer to remain in that tiny apartment. Am I right or not? Manda-bhāgyā. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has declared, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva. They are rotting or rotating within this universe in different species of life. But if by chance he becomes fortunate, then take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation -- January 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So write it there.

Rāmeśvara: This paper circulates more than the Times.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Combined. But not individually by city.

Rāmeśvara: But it's very close. Just in this city, Bombay, only twenty thousand papers difference. In Delhi, bigger circulation than Times.

Prabhupāda: Competition.

Rāmeśvara: Very competitive. And it's overall much more.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it's a fine paper. Therefore we decided.

Prabhupāda: Please see that there is no printing mistake.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we won't.

Prabhupāda: That is...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I'm giving Bombay address; Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, Hare Kṛṣṇa Land, Juhu, Bombay; Bhaktivedanta Book Trust; and the Delhi address. Delhi temple also.

Prabhupāda: No. Why Delhi temple? They are not executing?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Because we have a good stock of books over there also.

Prabhupāda: No, that is another thing. But they have no department for executing. They will be embarrassed when they receive order.

Room Conversation -- January 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, that is another thing. But they have no department for executing. They will be embarrassed when they receive order.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: OK, Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, Bombay and Bengal.

Prabhupāda: Give the full address.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I'm waiting for Jagadīśa to bring. Including the telephone number on the bottom.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Very often people just call up.

Rāmeśvara: In India when they have ads like this, Gopāla, do they have coupons?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Couponing is just introduced, being introduced in India. They'll not take.

Prabhupāda: Telephone number, I think, Vrnda has also.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he just got a phone. Lever Brothers, they've been experimenting with couponing in India. Not very...

Rāmeśvara: This man invited us to have the books reviewed.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I saw that. We're going to work on that now, even get these books reviewed by Times of India and all... So this is free publicity, and this is respected publicity. They also have a telephone number now. I have seen in the news. I have it in my office.

Prabhupāda: Telephone number?

Room Conversation -- January 10, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Nathdvar?

Prabhupāda: Here?

Trivikrama: In Bombay. In the city we have a...

Prabhupāda: So books are selling?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Which ones selling?

Trivikrama: Well, they want mostly in Gujarati. They didn't read Hindi. There is magazines and Īśopaniṣad.

Prabhupāda: This magazine you have got?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We have stock of Gujarati books also.

Prabhupāda: No, this magazine.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Not this one. This one hasn't arrived.

Trivikrama: This is a rupee and a half.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: These covers I did in Bombay. These are books from the other covers. They came out very good. Ādi-rasa was telling me, in a week we'll also do the black and white in Bombay, because the quality is going to be better.

Prabhupāda: You make expert, on quality expert.

Room Conversation -- January 10, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We are doing all the Gujarati covers in Bombay now, and I wrote to Jayapataka. We can even do the Bengali printing here.

Prabhupāda: In India, Bombay is best. There are many offset printing houses.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Like in the Bengali Back to Godhead they did in Calcutta, they spent eight paisa more per copy printing than Bombay, and quality was much inferior. So now I said, "You compose over there..."

Prabhupāda: Typeset is Delhi good, but offset-Bombay.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So what I've told them, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is they can get the composing done in Bengal, Calcutta, then send it to me, like I get the Hindi composing done in Vṛndāvana and mail it to Bombay for printing. So it is cheaper and good quality, plus we have the whole department set up. One boy, Pippalai, he just takes care of technical aspects. And we have a shipping department all set up now. Two boys work just on the shipping.

Prabhupāda: So supply department keep in one place.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And we have very good...

Prabhupāda: In other places it is...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't have the men, and we have good...

Prabhupāda: No. They supply all supplies. The orders should be supplied from one place.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: Completely?

Prabhupāda: No, at least we shall try to make closed. And if people become localized, then this traffic will be little. Just like I am trying to organize the farm. If people do not come out of home, then this system will be obsolete. There will be no more department. They have created hundreds. They do not know how to manage it. For livelihood they have to go to Bombay, and therefore they require so many local trains. But if they localized, they can get their livelihood locally, there is no question of these all...

Rāmeśvara: In America this is becoming the number-one problem—unemployment.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They must be. Artificial employment. (train re-starts)

Rāmeśvara: People go to college in America; they can no longer get jobs. They spend so many years going to college getting their degree. So now they cannot find any jobs.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the position in America. And what to speak of this country. Therefore, after being educated they go to foreign countries. You'll find so many Indians in educational labs(?) in your country, because they don't get any suitable jobs. (break) ...their so many departments will be closed.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Rāmeśvara: Even by your example they have not learned anything.

Prabhupāda: No, my... Of course, I did not attempt in the beginning. I started my activities when I was seventy years old. So they thought, "This man is gṛhastha. He is embarassed with family life. What he'll do?" (laughs) That was their impression. But I never neglected. Guru Mahārāja told me. I was simply thinking, "How to do it? How to do it?" I thought, "Let me become a rich businessman. The money will be required." That was my thought. But Guru Mahārāja was asking me, "You give up this. I'll give you money." That I could not understand. I was planning. My plan was not wrong. But I was thinking "The money required, so let me earn some money. Then I shall begin." And Guru Mahārāja said, "You give up this money-earning endeavor. You come completely. I'll give you money." I can understand now. But my desire was there. Therefore he guided me. So I was... In 1936 or '35 in Bombay, after installation of Deity, so—I was gṛhastha—I helped them to collect some money. All my Godbrothers applauded and recommended to Guru Mahārāja that "Abhay Babu is so influential. Why he lives outside the temple? He can become the temple commander and manage this Bombay temple. Why he is living outside?" Mean "Guru Mahārāja may ask him." So I was... From this Allahabad I was going to Bombay. I had one small office there. So after hearing, he said, "It is better that he is living little away from your Matha. And when time will rise, he'll do everything. He hasn't got to be advised." I could not understand why he said like that. That means he was so kind that he expected that I shall do something. That was my asset, his blessing. And I was thinking that "His, this mission must be done very nicely." Although I was not capable to do anything, I was thinking like that. So desire was there and maybe blessing was there. Yes. There was no question of qualification.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: It sounds like Bombay.

Gargamuni: And that Purī hotel was packed up with foreigners and with local people very nicely dressed. And this plot is just near the Purī hotel. So it's a nice area, and the breeze is wonderful, very nice breeze from the ocean. So if we build a nice multi-story, that breeze will be very healthy.

Prabhupāda: So...

Gargamuni: So I have to leave here tomorrow morning at 8:30 and meet with the man at around 9:30, 10:00, and he'll give me all the names and addresses, and he'll show me some other plots. Then, perhaps, if maybe you would like to see it the following day, we can drive there and show you the plot as soon as I get more information.

Rāmeśvara: Would you like to do that, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Hari-śauri: Have you been to Purī for a long time?

Prabhupāda: Oh, several times.

Hari-śauri: I mean in recent years or...

Prabhupāda: No. Recently I'm not going because my disciples are not allowed. I don't wish to go.

Gargamuni: I was here during Durgā-pūjā, and there were thousands of people entering that temple, thousands. I mean... There was just a tide all day long. So I know if we have a temple...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Last I went to see, before going to USA, in 1958.

Rāmeśvara: Almost twenty years.

Prabhupāda: Yes. 1958, yes. After that, I had no chance of going.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes, naturally.

Rāmeśvara: But what style will it be? It will be a different style of architecture.

Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana? That will be new introduction here.

Hari-śauri: Vṛndāvana's not a very big temple.

Prabhupāda: Not big, but... Bombay.

Hari-śauri: Yes. That's the same, along the same lines at least.

Gargamuni: Shouldn't it be higher than the Purī temple or less?

Rāmeśvara: We can make it higher for not too much extra cost. The height is not that expensive. I was talking...

Gargamuni: Height should be... Because you can see Purī temple from the road ten miles away.

Rāmeśvara: It would be suitable, appropriate, if this temple was taller.

Prabhupāda: That can be done.

Gargamuni: 'Cause then it could be seen from miles away.

Hari-śauri: Bombay temple was restricted for height. Otherwise it was going to be higher.

Gargamuni: Because along the road, say about ten kilometers, they have a sign, "Look to your right, and you will see Purī in your sight." They have a sign, like a poem.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Gargamuni: Along the road.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: Well, it depends what type of stone. They have that red stone in Rajasthan, like in Vṛndāvana. You've seen that red stone? Very nice. They're using that in... I saw a big hotel in Bombay. They have used that stone, very beautiful, that red stone that you see in Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Red stone. That is very durable.

Gargamuni: That Kesi-ghāṭa, that is made of that red stone.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: They're using it, I saw, in one hotel on the front in Bombay, very beautiful.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Gargamuni: In Bombay. I saw while we were driving in a taxi downtown. It's a new hotel, and they had that red stone. It's the first time I saw it in Bombay.

Prabhupāda: Hm. The red stone is very durable.

Gargamuni: But the building... Whatever building we build would require much maintenance due to the fact that it's near the ocean. Like I've noticed fans. They rust when they're near the ocean. So they probably would have to painted once a year. We'd have to paint at least once a year, paint everything.

Prabhupāda: Anything made of iron will corrode.

Room Conversation -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Please come here, take care of the center.

Guest: We belong to a hundred miles from this place.

Prabhupāda: Oh, hundred miles? (break)

Brahmānanda: ...here to Allahabad, I was coming from Bombay on the train. I was riding with some respectable people. They saw this button, and they said, "Oh, you are the disciple of Prabhupāda?" And I said, "Yes." And they were very appreciative of your work. And then I had one Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Eighth Canto, the story of Gajendra. And one man wanted to see the book. And he started reading it, and he kept the book throughout the whole journey, and he read the whole book, and he loved it. He said, "Your guru has written very nicely, very simply, very directly, and everything is there." He wouldn't give me back the book until he finished it.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) So our book-selling appreciated all over the world.

Brahmānanda: Yes. And this is an Indian, he's a Hindu, so he knows Vedic culture, but still he liked your books very much. He said, "I've never read something like this."

Prabhupāda: Our presentation is simplified. That is the beauty.

Room Conversation -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: This government says like that?

Brahmānanda: I don't know if the government has said it, but people talk like that just to create some atmosphere of uncertainty. These unstable governments, they like to create this kind of atmosphere.

Prabhupāda: There are many Indians. Practically Indian.

Brahmānanda: Yes, everything. Tamāla, when he came there, he said that Mombassa was like Bombay...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: ...and Nairobi was like Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they are living nicely. Why this government disturbing them?

Brahmānanda: Well, that is their policy.

Prabhupāda: They cannot manage nicely. The Africans are not so qualified. The Indians, they are managing business, everything.

Room Conversation with Film Producer about Krsna Lila -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So... No, no. So you have to take the light and the sun—a process. Ādau śraddhā tato sādhu saṅgo tato bhajana-kriyā.

Guest (2): All right.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (2): When you are giving a darśana... Yesterday we came to see you. That, these people, had to go to Bombay yesterday. But when a certain uttered that you have come here, we were astonished. They ran to my office, told me that "Guruji has come." "No, you are wrong." "No, you see. It is from our local newspaper." He's from Bengal. So he came for us and told me he would let us go and see. By five o'clock they had told him... "Let us go." We came here, and there's some people here I was talking to him. That engineer when Guruji tell that no rain, he was searching for the water, (indistinct) in that I was telling him that way. So Guruji when you are giving the light, wisdom, or making blessing that you become filled the superness. You surrender yourself.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our propaganda.

Guest (2): The surrender to... So similarly, suppose I am a drunkard.

Prabhupāda: No, it is no disqualification.

Room Conversation -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So put this matter in the GBC meeting.

Hari-śauri: I found the address of one man who offered us some land. You remember in Bombay you wanted someone to look at this land.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes.

Hari-śauri: Well, I found that address. This morning I gave it to Gargamuni, so he has to check that out yet. The land's about a half mile from railway station towards the sea. So he's going to check...

Prabhupāda: So give him. He can go and see.

Hari-śauri: When they've seen everything, perhaps you'd like to go just to look at the different sights, see what you like.

Prabhupāda: First of all you see whatever he selects, "This is the best." Then I'll...

Bhāgavata: That area around Puri Hotel there has depreciated due to tourism. Due to the tourists coming, that area around Puri Hotel, everyone walking, and ladies and men together...

Prabhupāda: Eating everything.

Bhāgavata: ...eating everything and taking bath together in the lake. Not a very good atmosphere. The boys and girls are walking hand in hand.

Prabhupāda: They go to enjoy sex.

Room Conversation -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes, nothing.

Gargamuni: In Māyāpur there was nothing. Here there is nothing and it is started.

Hari-śauri: Vṛndāvana there was nothing.

Gargamuni: All over the world you are famous for that.

Hari-śauri: In Bombay there was nothing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bombay. (laughs)

Gurukṛpa: Bombay was worse than nothing. (laughter) It'd been better if there was nothing in Bombay.

Prabhupāda: No, you are rich man's sons, Americans. We are poor Indians. My father was not a rich man, but your father, all are rich man's father, rich man.

Gurukṛpa: You are the father. You are a rich man. We have nothing.

Prabhupāda: No, I may be rich man's father, (laughter) but my father was not rich man. (laughs) I may be called rich man's father.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Huh? Why you are trying for? Simply make a show? You are thinking already, but you do not know. Your world is your father, mother, and two sisters, that's all. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tridhātuke svā-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu. That is your world. A little family, a little community, that is your world. We do not think in that way. We include even the animals, trees, plants-brothers. That is our philosophy. We feel. When you cut a tree unnecessarily, we feel. This is our feeling. Unless there is absolute necessity, we do not wish to kill even a tree, what to speak of animals. When in our Bombay the coconut trees were being cut, I was feeling actually: "Why unnecessarily the coconut trees...?" You cannot give anyone life, so how, what is living, you can kill? It may be tree or animal or plant. You cannot give him life. So you have to suffer for this.

Gargamuni: Can we go inside?

Satsvarūpa: He said it was open in the morning.

Gargamuni: See if we can go inside. (break)

Prabhupāda: I was going to purchase ticket, Māgha Melā. He said "No, you don't go. That's it."

Bhāgavata: Then there is a lake over here and there is animals, birds, different types of birds.

Prabhupāda: Oh, zoological.

Room Conversation -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: Yes. She worked here for several years.

Prabhupāda: No, no, his mother.

Hari-śauri: I think it was his wife.

Prabhupāda: No, mother.

Gargamuni: No, his mother came here. She worked as a nurse in Bombay.

Hari-śauri: Oh. That was it.

Prabhupāda: Mother Theresa or something like that.

Hari-śauri: No, no. She has nothing to do with...

Gargamuni: No.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Gargamuni: She worked in some hospital for a few years in Bombay.

Hari-śauri: She was a relief worker. Was it his mother or his wife?

Prabhupāda: Mother Theresa, no?

Gargamuni: No. It's his mother.

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Just see. Many. Why Dai Nippon?

Gurukṛpā: But this was eight-thirty at night he came.

Prabhupāda: No, Bombay, Bombay, Calcutta.

Gurukṛpā: I asked him, "What time do you go to work?" He said, "At nine in the morning." I said, "But it is eight-thirty. You have been working now eleven hours." He said, "Well, after I leave here, I must go back to the office and finish my work. I will be finished at eleven tonight. Then I will go home. I will get home at one o'clock, and then I must get up at six in the morning to go to the office." So much tapasya.

Prabhupāda: There is a book, novel. The subject matter is that the man, when he goes out of home the child is sleeping. He has to rise four o'clock to prepare to take the six o'clock train. At that time his child is sleeping. And when he comes back at ten o'clock, the child is sleeping. So he does not know. So when he's grown up, on Sunday he's asking his mother, "Who is this man?" (laughs) This is the subject matter. They have written in a very... He is asking, "Who is this man?" When he was child, he did not see, neither inquired. Now, when he's grown up, on Sunday he sees that this man is very intimately talking with his mother. He... In this way...

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Hari-śauri: Yes. They have the highest suicide rate in the world.

Prabhupāda: One becomes mad. I was... I experienced this in Bombay, that due to Śyāmasundara's mistake I was detained for three days?

Gurukṛpā: The yellow fever. Hospital.

Hari-śauri: Quarantine.

Prabhupāda: Quarantine. Simply by thinking that "I shall not be allowed to go out of this room..." It is not a room; it is a big house, but still, I was feeling uncomfortable: "How is that? I shall not be free to go out." And that three days was actually suffering to me, "I cannot go out of the door." Simply by feeling this. I do not do practically. I sit down. But if I feel, "No, I cannot go out of this room," that's a great suffering. Whole day, I am sitting here. That's a fact. But I have got this intelligence that "I can go out as I like." But if you say that "You cannot go out," then it is a great suffering, psychologically. So creation or no creation, there is suffering. Rather, when there is creation it is less suffering, because he's mad, so he's engaged in some way. (laughs) He's thinking, "It is happiness." Eating, sleeping, sex is there. That is going on. That is māyā. Therefore this creation is another mercy of Kṛṣṇa. That I was reading this night. One creation, so many millions of years... There is calculation. One Brahmā's day, twelve hours, you cannot calculate. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). One yuga—forty-three hundred thousand years—one yuga, thousand times. Forty-three hundred thousand years equal to one yuga. Such thousand times. That is Brahmā's twelve hours. Then another twelve hours, night. That is also another trouble, when Brahmā's night. Everything merge into water, pralaya-payodhi-jale **. Not all the planet. At least half the universe plunge into water. This earthly planet and up to Svargaloka everything is inundated.

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: (laughing) The people who speak the local language can't read it. So the signs are useless. Anybody who is educated enough to read it can read...

Prabhupāda: English language understood. English... They speak in English. In big, big cities like Bombay, Calcutta, Delhi, even the girls, young girls, they would like to speak in English. They don't like to speak in their... At home even, with their father and mother, they're speaking in English. Especially in Bombay, everyone speaks. Not now. I have connection with Bombay since 1927. In 1927 I first went to Bombay. So how many years? Fifty years? I have seen it. They speak in English. They are sending their children where education is given by medium, English. High-class men, they send their children to learn through medium of English. There is Calcutta, St. Julia's College, near our college near our temple.

Satsvarūpa: Hindu College?

Prabhupāda: No. St. Julia's. All Indian students, all very rich man's sons. I sent my sons to English, St. Mary's High School and St. Teresa's school. Learned English very nicely. Scottish Churches College. I was educated in Scottish... All our professors European, Englishmen and Scotsmen.

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: But Japanese are very intelligent, Bengalis are intelligent, by taking fish and rice. In Bengal ninety percent people, they take fish. Here also, Orissa, cent percent, even the Jagannātha pūjārīs. In Bihar also, fifty percent. The more you go towards Western part of India, you get more wealthy province, just like Uttar Pradesh, very wealthy province, enlightened. All the big cities are there: Allahabad, Kanpur, Agra, Lucknow. Every hundred miles you get a very nice city in UP, the best province in India. All the holy places-Vṛndāvana, Prayāga, Hardwar, Ayodhyā, many celebrated holy places. Ganges and Yamunā flowing, two sacred rivers. Both of them through in Uttar Pradesh. And all the cities are either on the bank of the Yamunā or Ganges. And that is the best province, state, in India. It has got fifty districts. And fifty districts means fifty towns. Little more or less important. But the Kanpur is the third important city in India. First Calcutta, Bombay, and next, Kanpur.

Satsvarūpa: Not Delhi?

Prabhupāda: No. Delhi has become important on account of capital.

Satsvarūpa: Politics.

Prabhupāda: Government.

Satsvarūpa: International government.

Prabhupāda: From business point... Now they're making Delhi industrially developed. That is new attempt. But Calcutta, Bombay, Kanpur is old... Calcutta is manufactured by the British. Bombay also manufactured. But Kanpur is older, very old. Kanyakubja. That Ajāmila upākhyāna?(?) Ajāmila?

Hari-śauri: Ajāmila.

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Lead a gentle life. We don't allow divorce. Is that not good? Where is that check?

Hari-śauri: Two checks. There were two checks for a hundred and ten. That went to Calcutta with Abhirāma.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that check. And another check?

Hari-śauri: And that other check went with Rāmeśvara to Bombay.

Satsvarūpa: One of their arguments is that they'll get some member and deprogram him, some weak devotee, and then he will go to court or he will write and say, "Yes. I did not want to join this movement, but they did something to me, and I lost my free will, and then..."

Prabhupāda: They have said like that?

Satsvarūpa: Yes. They tell so many lies. They say that the devotee looked into his eyes and suddenly he couldn't think anymore.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Satsvarūpa: That's what Ādi-keśava is being charged with-mind control.

Pradyumna: Like asi-kāraṇa.(?) Like mind control, hypnotism.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So...

Hari-śauri: Very little? (laughs)

Gargamuni: We should go after Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: You came directly here by plane?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. I came to Calcutta. (Bengali) So I was planning to go to Bombay. Then I went to the temple. Last night I came, and I called the temple, but there was nobody, so I didn't know where Prabhupāda is. So I was trying to go to Bombay today. Then I learned from the temple that Prabhupāda is here, so I was planning to go by train. Then I found out there is an airplane also available, so I came by plane.

Prabhupāda: Yes, from Calcutta to Bhuvaneśvara there is plane.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I have never been here before in Bhuvaneśvara.

Prabhupāda: Bhuvaneśvara, Jagannātha Purī. They are important places. So give him prasāda first, and then come.(?)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We had a meeting before I came here...

Prabhupāda: Ah, ah.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So Vṛndāvana we may not go? What is the wrong there?

Hari-śauri: About a week.

Gargamuni: Yes. 'Cause when does monsoon start here? In June? Starts very early.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Ah, yes. In June.

Gargamuni: So we have to go before. That gives us...

Hari-śauri: We don't have to be in Bombay for any reason though, now, because the opening is not going to take place till late.

Prabhupāda: So if just after Māyāpur festival, if you go to...

Gargamuni: From Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pradyumna: You're going to go to Haridaspur after that? Or no?

Prabhupāda: That we can go later on. This is very important. Manipur we want to make a very strong center, because it is Vaiṣṇava state.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: What is that personal? We had a tutorial class system.

Satsvarūpa: So it's not necessary to have it so small, classes. Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, they talked with him, and he likes the idea. He said he can give them rooms in Bombay where they could do this. They think that it's not good that the girls be in the same building as the boys, such as in Vṛndāvana, because then...

Prabhupāda: No, they are on the upstairs.

Satsvarūpa: Well, they were saying that what happens is, if they're both in the same building, that they get to hate each other, he said. The preaching is either the boys should avoid the girls and the girls should avoid the boys, but they get a very... It's better to be out of sight of each other, not even near each other. They could be in Vṛndāvana, but it'd have to be in a different building or location, they said. So maybe better Bombay.

Prabhupāda: Bombay's good. These things should be decided by the GBC.

Satsvarūpa: I mentioned that to them. They said they had been with Jagadīśa. I said, "Well why...?" They said they just want to know your opinion, then they'd go and talk with him again.

Prabhupāda: My opinion is already there according to the... They should be chaste, faithful to husband. Little literary knowledge, they can read. That's all. Not very much.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Jaipur artists?

Satsvarūpa: There's some... Just like village craftsmen and workers that Saurabha is working with in Bombay who are making the furniture and different decorations in Bombay, and he says that Saurabha also knows some men in these villages who are artists, and they work for very little, but they can make nice authentic illustrations of all these things, whether...

Prabhupāda: Hm, that is all right. I do not know.

Satsvarūpa: And they would be carefully...

Prabhupāda: No, I have no knowledge about these things. What is the use of consulting me?

Satsvarūpa: Well, I think it's to consult with you on the principle that they're not devotees...

Prabhupāda: I know that they made some books already. Why they are being rejected? Then again you make, and again rejecting. That is unnecessary.

Satsvarūpa: I see.

Prabhupāda: They can better translate in French so many books, the husband, wife. And the children's books there are already. (break) ...excess book had to be cancelled. They have already made.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And while talking, all of a sudden there was a very big bumping in the plane, so everyone was afraid just before we reached Calcutta. So then I mentioned that every moment we are in danger.

Prabhupāda: Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām (SB 10.14.58). Every step there is danger. The other day in Bombay there was accident. Just going up, and so many persons died immediately, ninety persons. Immediately. What is the...?

Yogeśvara: In Bangkok just before we came, just a few days before, a big 747 had crashed.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? So many persons died?

Yogeśvara: So many people dead, just before we arrived.

Prabhupāda: Just see. So you have discovered such thing that any moment you can die, every one. So therefore this is problem.

Hari-śauri: When we just drove down the road just now, when we went past, we saw some people holding a woman, and she was screaming and foaming at the mouth. Just further down the road there was the body of her husband on the road. He'd been squashed flat by a truck, and the body was still there. And the head... Head and arms...

Prabhupāda: Only danger. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām (SB 10.14.58). Every step, simply danger, and we are proud of our scientific advancement. The aeroplane is scientific advancement, but the danger is also more. As soon as you crash, all are altogether... Without an aeroplane one or two men could die, but because you have made this scientific advancement, you all die.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: See. How foolish. Billions of dollars they are spending for a false thing, and they are educating. Durāśayā bahir-artha-māninaḥ. (chuckling) It is stated in the SB.. They're proposing something which is not the fact, which will never be possible. still, they'll do.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In fact, there's one member from here from India, he's in Bombay, that Atomic Research Institute. He's one of the (indistinct) members in this study of the origin of life from chemicals. And if it's possible we would like to give a lecture there in the...

Prabhupāda: He is talking nonsense also?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: All of them.

Prabhupāda: A nonsense society. "International Society of Nonsense."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Their theory is that they know this much...

Prabhupāda: I think, perhaps, we have detected first that these are rascals.

Gurukṛpā: You have detected.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Gurukṛpā: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Nobody before tried to... (chuckling) So...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Nobody's saying as boldly as Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation -- February 2, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes, if I go, I will...

Yugadharma: So this is good. Now I have some service.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You are seeking for service. That is your advancement. Kṛṣṇa is gracing you. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau (Brs. 1.2.234). The more we become inclined to render service we become advanced. You have seen our Bombay branch?

Yugadharma: No.

Prabhupāda: No. Not yet. Vṛndāvana you have been. And Māyāpur?

Yugadharma: Māyāpur, yes. I have family. I have one wife and two children, two daughters there.

Prabhupāda: Oh, where?

Yugadharma: In Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice.

Yugadharma: They are very nice. They are very excited. In Vṛndāvana I was walking with my daughter on Raman Reti, and she was saying... She is four years old. Her name is Yaśodā. She gave herself the name.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Train Conversation -- February 4, 1977, Calcutta:

Satsvarūpa: But we have to take the risk to go and see their face, to preach to them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But if you are engaged in preaching, you are not affected. (break) ...Himalaya just to avoid seeing the face of the vicious.

Satsvarūpa: In Bhagavad-gītā one of the items of knowledge is to go to a solitary place...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: ...and avoid the congested...

Prabhupāda: Practice yoga—solitary place, sacred and solitary. What is this circle we see in morning? Simply "Cāi, cāi, cāi." And cigarette, biḍi, and talking nonsense, drinking, no arrangement. Vedic system, still in India in morning they take bath, in the villages. In the cities also, those who come from village, you'll find in Bombay this side, many poor men, they're taking early in the morning bathing. You have seen that?

Satsvarūpa: Yes, Juhu.

Prabhupāda: Not only Juhu. Olee(?). They'll wash their floor, take bath. In village also they'll go to the well and take water. (end)

Room Conversation -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: More than sufficient.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now arrange for big festival. There is a program, Manipur. I want to start in that small state varṇāśrama idea. That is my dream. Small state it can be done, brāhmaṇa, kṣatri... So when you arrived in the airport?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we first... The airplane that we came on landed in Delhi, and we went down to Bombay yesterday morning. So we stayed the day in Bombay.

Prabhupāda: You have seen the progress?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Going on all right?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but I don't think it will be finished by... They say Daśaratha, but I have my doubts.

Prabhupāda: Then what can be done?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is your opinion?

Brahmānanda: Not the finishing work. There is so much marble finishing work.

Prabhupāda: The marbles, they are working or not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. They're working. I think there must be at least one hundred workers going full time.

Prabhupāda: Marble.

Room Conversation -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Marble.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Marble and otherwise also, woodworking, so many things. But I mean it's a very big project, so I think certainly they'll be done by next March. They could open on October, but it won't be finished completely.

Prabhupāda: No, why? We must finish to the point. Then we can...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Otherwise we won't impress properly.

Brahmānanda: They're making it very beautifully. So if it's done...

Prabhupāda: He has done wonderful. There is no such temple, at least in Bombay. No, and in India.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When we took off in the Jumbo, or when we took off in the plane to Calcutta, we got a very clear vision of the whole temple complex. So if there's some sign put on the towers on the top, everyone from the plane will be able to read it. Hare Kṛṣṇa Land. Very prominent from the airplane. It stands out from all the other buildings because it's so big and very beautiful. Very nice. It is all your mercy, that building, Prabhupāda. It was up to us...

Prabhupāda: (laughs) My mercy or your mercy. You are all working. So anyway, this counter propaganda is doing good to us.

Room Conversation -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. No illicit sex, no meat-eating. I thought that nobody would take this. But is Kṛṣṇa's mercy; you have taken it seriously. So just you have got your room?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, very nicely situated.

Satsvarūpa: You'll be taking prasādam.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I've brought some medicines for you from Bombay.

Prabhupāda: Hm. What is that medicine?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I can bring them. I don't know.

Brahmānanda: Were you expecting something.

Hari-śauri: We already got one big bag full.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. There's so many more things now.

Hari-śauri: Did Kārttikeya give it to you?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't know who... Girirāja gave them to me.

Prabhupāda: So in Bombay everything is going...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. There was very strict program. You know Girirāja is such a good devotee.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everything is just like in America in Bombay. The temple program is right on time, very nicely...

Prabhupāda: That is wanted. If we keep our temple program nicely and we follow the rules and regu..., then we are triumphant. There is no doubt. That is our main strength.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That is going on very strictly in Bombay.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere this should be going. Then we are safe.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gopāla Kṛṣṇa had something wrong with his foot, had some foot...

Brahmānanda: He had an operation, small, minor.

Prabhupāda: Boil? Something?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Something like a boil. So he was sitting most of the time.

Prabhupāda: Now I have advised the books in the schools, colleges, our Hindi, Bengali, English, we can push in every school. I was instructing...

Devotee: Māyāpur town?

Prabhupāda: Everywhere, all over the world. It will be a revolution from godlessness to understanding of God. That is wanted. Otherwise the whole human society is suffering. Harāv abhaktasya kuto. This advancement of so-called education has no value. It is very risky. They do not know how the nature's law is working. Rascals. They are taking this short duration of life, māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43), making big, big plans, forgetting they're completely under the control of nature. A very risky civilization. A living being gets the opportunity to understand all the secrets of nature's path, but he's denied the opportunity. Very dangerous He's thinking like animal. Eating, sleeping, that's all. And big, big educationist and in... Like Professor Kotofsky, he said, "Swamijī, after this body is finished, everything (is finished.)" Just see.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Brahmānanda: He is in Bombay now. We saw him. Girirāja wants to arrange some lectures for him at the schools and colleges.

Prabhupāda: You shall combine a few Ph.D., D.H.C., to challenge these so-called scientists all over the world. Amongst the scientists, if you speak of God, they will deride. He'll reject you. Is it not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To some extent, yes. But...

Prabhupāda: No. It is prohibited to speak of God among the scientists.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But in India, if he speaks in India to the scientists, they will receive it much more readily.

Prabhupāda: Hm. In Western countries they have no brain.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, cow dung.

Prabhupāda: Cow dung. Cow dung, no. Man's dung. (laughter) Cow dung is pure. Man's dung. In our youthful ages we used to say, dadang dang.(?) Our one professor, Mr. Cameron, English professor, he was Scotsman. In our I.A. class or B.A. class he was... So that time Patel's Bin(?), intercaste marriage... We were young man. We were supporting. So before the professor's coming in the blackboard we wrote, "Dadang dang Patel's Bin dang," (?)and like that, in Bengali. So Professor Cameron came. He saw, "The boys, they have written something." So he simply read it, remained silent. Then he began his teaching. Then when the hour is over, he erased the blackboard, and he wrote. He wrote in this way-jakhan tomār biye pas korbe, takhan tomār biye kote pade.(?) He wrote it and read it. So the purport is that tomār jana.... "When you'll pass your B.A. examination, then you'll be allowed to marry. Now you don't talk of this Patel's..." So we clapped him, and (laughs) it was very nice. Mr. Cameron.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gandhi was born in...?

Prabhupāda: Gandhi is a Gujarati.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he went to South Africa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. South Af... He had no practice here. One attorney, he told me in Bombay that "Your Gandhi was waiting for cases here, sitting in this chair." He was not even successful lawyer. Then he got a case in Africa. He thought it wise, "Let me go there." And there, instead of becoming a lawyer, he became a political agitator. So to take equal status for the Indians he fought there. And that was failure. Still it is going on. They are very determined not to give any advantage to anyone except these whites.

Hari-śauri: They know as soon as they give little leeway, then their whole government will be finished.

Prabhupāda: Very strict. Still, they purchase my books.

Brahmānanda: The whites.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: Inner sanctuary.

Prabhupāda: And hearth? Home.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Home.

Prabhupāda: That book was named Cloister and Hearth. So get Bombay finished very quickly and book-printing, stock, propaganda. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...society is growing on that principle.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This I want to increase more and more. No money in the bank. In the books. And as soon as there will be stock of book, it has to be sold. Otherwise you will starve. (chuckling) That I want.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That will force the book sales to increase. The manager...

Prabhupāda: You may take it as business or whatever you like. I am not taking anything. You are selling five to six lakhs daily?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So my royalty would have been one lakh, fifty thousand daily. Big authors, they take twenty-five percent. So that is not the ambition, but my ambition is these books shall be sold. That's all. Whole... Every house should have our books, every gentleman, in any language. It doesn't matter. That is our propaganda. Now you are getting all languages, so we can capture the whole world.

Morning Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This book is now very nice because there are many fine illustrations inside, more than there used to be. They've added. The Teachings of Lord Caitanya, I was thinking in particular. I have a copy of that, and there are many color illustrations inside now. Wonderful book, the summary of all of Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's introduction gives a whole... It's like all of the pastimes of Lord Caitanya condensed into a few pages.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is there in the Teaching of Lord Caitanya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, teachings of Lord Caitanya. This is... You remember that...

Prabhupāda: Near Bombay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bombay, at Rāma temple you stayed at. This was taken by Brijbasi. They took this picture. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...rasāmṛta-sindhu like my other books, word to word. Then Bon Mahārāja began. So Bon Mahārāja could not do it. Only he published only a part of it with gorgeous sound, that, only that eleven hundred or one thousand copies printed forever.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To show. Name only.

Prabhupāda: Name only.

Morning Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa wants His assistants; the spiritual master also requires assistant. Everything is going on under Kṛṣṇa's direct supervision. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10).

īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ
hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati
bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni
yantrārūḍhāni māyayā
(BG 18.61)

So Bombay work is going on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Full-scale work.

Prabhupāda: People come to see even what is going on now.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Many big people come to see. When I was there a very big life member came with his wife. Girirāja is constantly giving tours of the construction, showing, "This will be like this; this will be like this." People are very impressed. There is no such place in all of Bombay.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In all of India there's no such place.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Formerly they used to be, because that was not restaurant. Restaurant in Indian style, they were selling paraṭā. In Delhi there are many. So those who were interested with paraṭā, they'll sit down and they will supply first-class paraṭā and vegetables.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. That's not there anymore. In Bombay the only good restaurant... There is a Marwari restaurant where they have this dower(?) system. But there's only one, and it's in Kalpadevi, so hardly anyone will go there anyway. No office people go there. Only the Marwaris go there.

Prabhupāda: No, Bombay there are so many restaurants.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But they're very...

Prabhupāda: Dirty.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That restaurant, mostly for drinking tea and pakorā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And there's a few in the office area in Fort where they give you...

Prabhupāda: Regular.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Not first class.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. But yet it's packed with people. All the office people go there to eat there. And many office people get food brought to them in the office also, tiffins. You know...?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They have that in Bombay.

Prabhupāda: Yes, tiffin carrier.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a big business.

Prabhupāda: That is from their home.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. That's a big business.

Prabhupāda: There is a professional tiffin-carrier man. They collect from different houses, and they come by the train and give to the person in the office.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, that's collected from their home.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Sometimes from hotel.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Sometimes from hotel.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Yes, from hotel also. Sometimes I see them, huge quantities of tiffins.

Prabhupāda: Bombay officers, they, more than fifty percent, they eat in that tiffin-carrier.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I think the restaurants make a big part of their business from that tiffin business in Bombay. Our... These other religions, just like Christianity, Judaism, they are accepted by the people and by the government because the people who are part of their religions are very normal in terms of doing business and society, etcetera. But we are very exceptional in every way. We don't...

Prabhupāda: Therefore they say "brainwash."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We don't fit into the normal pattern of things—no jobs, no proper dress. Everything's strange to them, because we don't want their culture. It is so abominable.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is brahminical culture. They don't want it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. When the...

Hari-śauri: They don't have any culture.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When the British came here, they saw people sitting on the floor, they said, "Oh, uncivilized."

Prabhupāda: No, no. The British policy was that "If you keep the Hindus as Hindu, it will not be possible to rule over them." That was their policy. Therefore, from the very beginning childhood, everything Indian condemned.

Room Conversation -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Trinidad, there are many Indians. They know Hindi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They were waiting for Hindi books.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Give them. Print huge quantity. This is very important item, our book distribution. Whole Bombay, whole building should be stocked. Hindi, Gujarati, Telegu, so that one house for one stock. And try to, mean, vacate even by giving them. Simply our business, nothing else. And those who are devotees, they'll follow you, and they can come and live. That's all. And engage whatever help they can give.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You had a plan to make another building on the Bombay land.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is already in the...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Contemplated.

Prabhupāda: Municipality judge will not sanction. They're harassing our...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Still.

Prabhupāda: That man is there.

Room Conversation -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This kitchen management is a great art. That attracts men. Tā'ra madhye jihwā ati, lobhamoy sudurmati, tā'ke jetā kaṭhina saṁsāre, kṛṣṇa baṛo doyāmoy, koribāre jihwā jay, swa-prasād. Give varieties of prasāda. That is required. That is the art.

Hari-śauri: We're going to need some very expert cooks for our Bombay center.

Prabhupāda: You change it. You change it. The Gujarati, they know it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Gujarati cooks.

Prabhupāda: I asked Bhogilal. He sent, but they cancelled.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The same thing. I once arranged for Shantilal's brother, and they cancelled. The thing is there's an art of dealing with these servants. You have to know how to handle them. Otherwise... They have to be treated like the children in the family.

Prabhupāda: No, not... Treat them as master-servant tactfully.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And you have to take care of them.

Hari-śauri: The thing is, those men that Bhogilal sent were smoking biḍis and everything.

Prabhupāda: That could be checked, that "You do not do this." If you have to keep hired cook, so you'll have to manage in that way. Everything depends on management. Change of menu is very good, not that the same thing should be...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's been four days now of the same thing.

Prabhupāda: That's not good.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Very good.

Prabhupāda: So you purchase some copies.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. This is yesterday's Times of India from Bombay. When we get to Bombay we'll go to their office. We can buy back issues, I think. I don't know... I'll find out who... Abhirāma gave me this. "Published from Bombay, Delhi, and Ahmedabad."

Prabhupāda: Now we have got a sound position.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe it's in some other... I have the Sunday Statesman.

Prabhupāda: In the first page they have given, eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. First page of Times of India.

Prabhupāda: And big heading?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. "Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement is Bona Fide Religion." You couldn't pay for an advertisement this good.

Prabhupāda: So my mission is now successful.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So my mission is now successful.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: In 1965 I went there, and this is now recognized after ten years ago. Ten or twelve years, eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Twelve years.

Prabhupāda: Loitering in the street. Nobody cared for me. Alone carrying the books. Now organize Bombay as our headquarter, New York as sub-office. Or headquarter in America.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What about Los Angeles?

Prabhupāda: Anywhere. I told you that it must have been published.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. You can see that the Bombay newspaper is better than these Calcutta papers.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Certainly.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because the Calcutta paper has not yet carried it. It may be that Times of India has a relationship with some New York Times.

Prabhupāda: It is as good as The Statesman.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: It is as good as The Statesman.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, it's actually more prominent than The Statesman, I think. Yeah. There's no mention. There's no mention in these other papers.

Prabhupāda: So you are also coming to Bombay?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I'm also thinking to go to Delhi to make that inner pass for possible visit to Manipur.

Prabhupāda: That may be suspended for the time.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh. So shall I...?

Prabhupāda: We have to do so many things always.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But at the same time traveling may not be so...

Prabhupāda: Fruitful.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Prabhupāda's health. It may not be so wise.

Prabhupāda: If Manipur is prepared to help me... What is this? The same tablet? No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I've gotten a week's supply of these other tablets. I got the prescription filled.

Prabhupāda: Keep it here.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That's good idea. Yes. So now organize things. My presence or no presence, we have got now a position. We have to push on this movement very cautiously.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Svarūpa Dāmodara Prabhu was mentioning that he met Upendra.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Where?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In the airport, Calcutta airport. He arrived last night, but somehow his luggage was left in Bombay airport. So the luggage is coming tonight at seven o'clock for Bombay-Calcutta flight, and he told me that he's coming after, a taxi. So he'll be arriving about nine o'clock tonight.

Prabhupāda: Oh. He has received that telegram.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Hawaii.

Prabhupāda: He is coming from Hawaii?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He went all the way back to Hawaii.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says, "Dear Tamāla Kṛṣṇa, we received your telegram and acted immediately after confirming with Rāmeśvara." This is from Upendra.

Prabhupāda: Oh. "Unfortunately, after seven-hour stopover in Tokyo, they lost my reservations on my connecting flight. That, coupled with the fact that after arriving last night I find they've sent my belongings to Bombay, so I am waiting until the evening for the flight from Bombay when I get my trunk. I shall try to hire a taxi directly to Māyāpur. I would come now but I have absolutely no personal clothes or anything. Please tell Prabhupāda that I am due this evening. If not, then I shall ask the Calcutta devotees to care for my luggage and I'll proceed immediately."

Prabhupāda: No, there is no need of coming. We are going.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) It's hard to reach him. He's...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In the airport.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) ...stationed in the Calcutta airport.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You have quite a big entourage now.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Scientist...

Prabhupāda: But our most auspicious sign is this, "Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is bona fide religion."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is preceding your arrival in Bombay.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's announcing your coming, practically. Very prominent.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, I found Bombay very good scope.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Organize Bombay as the center of...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Especially when our that big hall is finished, we can hold several lectures...

Prabhupāda: Daily. At least weekly twice. Sunday, Monday, we shall hold lectures and call all scholarly people to understand. Make it nicely.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This is verse of Bhagavad-gītā, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). You cannot violate the laws of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You are strictly under the obligation, or laws of nature. Why you are talking nonsense? This should be... And under the strict laws of nature—you are eternal—simply you are suffering while transforming this body or transmigrating your soul over... And it is so risky that today you are human being; tomorrow you may be a dog, a tree. Then your life is spoiled. Today you have got so nice intelligence to deliver you from the clutches of the laws of nature, and tomorrow you may not be able. Then you are lost in the laws of nature. This is your position. So at least this institution must be there. People may take little advantage of it. If he begins, that is also great guarantee that he gets another chance, another chance. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate. Why this chance should not be given to the human society? What is this nonsense dog dancing, election, and bribing, stealing, and unnecessarily struggle? What they'll do? They are all nothing, all of these. What will be gained by this?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's very effective. We are just about ready to print something in Bombay. Our two other are in Bombay now, two other scientists.

Prabhupāda: Let us go there and organize. At least for one month we shall remain there. Let us organize.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A lot of the senior devotees are still there. They've gone from here to Vṛndāvana, and now they're in Bombay, and they're waiting for your coming.

Prabhupāda: I am therefore going. In spite of my so much inconveniences, I am going there.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: We shall train them. Military march, Manipur. Slogan: "Jaya Rādhe! Jaya Kṛṣṇa! Jaya Babhruvāhana! Jaya Arjuna!" And then let us go. We shall organize Bombay headquarter, Manipur Vaiṣṇava state, send missionary all over the world, bona fide, scientific system of religion, ideal character. Ideal character. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). That we have to show. "Here is the sum total of all good qualities." That we have to show. We haven't got to go anywhere. Knowledge, good quality, happiness, advancement of life, everything complete. So let us go to Manipur. Arrange for that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So should we arrange for this April 5th, 4th, around that time, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: April 5th. No harm. We are... Kodaikanal, we wanted to go by the end of the...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You wanted to go... Bombay pandal ends about the 30th.

Prabhupāda: Thirtieth.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So that means there's still about another week until the 5th. March has thirty-one days. So there'll still be another week. And then there's a week in between Bombay and Kodaikanal. Kodaikanal(?) by 15th.

Prabhupāda: Fifteenth or later on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That can be later. At least by 15th, 20th, like that.

Prabhupāda: So let us go, our whole party.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So let us go, our whole party.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want to stay in Bombay, stay until the... Is there any date until?

Prabhupāda: I don't want to stay anywhere. I want work.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So there's work everywhere. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Staying, I have stayed big, big palaces, big, big cities. That is now complete. I have no other desire.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How long do you want to work in Bombay? I mean, till...

Prabhupāda: So long there is work. There is no end of it. Our Bombay should be organized. Work is our life. There is no question of "How long?" As long as possible. Kṛṣṇa giving us good opportunities. Now we should take it seriously. It is not joke. "Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is bona fide religion."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, that will be...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very important.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, especially in the United States.

Prabhupāda: New York high-court decision.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So I'll go to Delhi tomorrow and...

Prabhupāda: Go.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...arrange with the Home Minister. Minister of Home has to give the permit.

Prabhupāda: And then come back to Bombay?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Then I'm coming to Bombay.

Prabhupāda: Now work very strenuously. You are all young men, and somehow or other, dead horse, you have given life. Otherwise the last fortnight I was thinking I am dead now. I was thinking like that, 'Now life is finished." Life can be finished at any time. That is not wonderful. To live, that is wonderful. If my life is finished, that is not wonderful. Nobody will lament. "Oh, he was old man, eighty-two years old." But if I can live for some days more, that is wonderful. If I die, that is not wonderful.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa is wonderful.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is wonderful always.

Arrival of Devotees -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Gargamuni: He's the chief all over India of all the pilots. He personally landed the plane.

Prabhupāda: Where does he live?

Gargamuni: I don't know so much about him, but I can find out.

Prabhupāda: One pilot, he was coming in Bombay, Mr. Sharma. He was driving this 747, and one Parsi gentleman, he was also driving. Might be.

Gargamuni: The general manager of Air India for this side is a Parsi man. I was speaking with him.

Prabhupāda: Oh, then two...

Gargamuni: And he said, "It is thanks to your society that this is landing now." He thanked us.

Rāmeśvara: Some reporters were also speaking with me at the airport, and I told them, "Don't think that Air India can bring planeloads of people to Bengal. Don't think that they can attract people to land in Calcutta. But only because of Lord Caitanya, we are making so much propaganda that by the planeload they want to come to Bengal." He was writing these notes. The whole credit goes to Lord Caitanya, we were saying.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Oh, very cheap.

Bali-mardana: Where should we send? To one center?

Prabhupāda: Send in Bombay.

Bali-mardana: Send to Bombay, and they can stock and then supply everywhere.

Hari-śauri: Balarāma already knows about sending ghee.

Bali-mardana: Yes. I was just investigating it. They wanted some ghee in Hawaii.

Hari-śauri: They've already done two or three shipments to India before, so that's already established.

Bali-mardana: No problem.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: International cooperation.

Prabhupāda: For making devotees. It is not for business.

Bali-mardana: And the books are nice quality. No problem.

Prabhupāda: You have seen?

Bali-mardana: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes, very nice.

Room Conversation -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Oh. He is Mr. Sen. No?

Hari-śauri: Mr. Sen was here. At least that's what I was told, anyway, that he was the chief guest. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If they have a proper stage like in Bombay with good lighting, it enhances it very much.

Prabhupāda: And Bombay will understand English. Play was very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Costumes were good?

Prabhupāda: Everything was all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sudāmā was a complete transformation.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) He played first.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really.

Prabhupāda: All of them played nice. (pause) (break) If you continue, throughout the whole year people will come.

Hari-śauri: Just like they have prasāda distribution at the weekend, they could also put a theatrical performance and kīrtana like this on the stage every week.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What would be very nice, I think, is if gradually the local devotees can learn to play these things in Bengali. (kīrtana in background)

Prabhupāda: No. There is another possibility. You can simply play, and by microphone we can explain in Bengali.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Narration. That's best. What would be best, though, is if the local people also learned, so that in every temple there could be this kind of performance.

Prabhupāda: Any local language we can speak. They'll simply show their movement. Speaking somebody, he will show like that. In cinema they do that.

Room Conversation -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: The thing is, it is guesthouse, and once it is advertised that the food is not good, nobody comes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: First impression is the lasting impression. If one time a man comes and it is not good, he will never return.

Prabhupāda: Then in Bombay we shall be very careful.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very careful. Only the best cooks.

Prabhupāda: Not best cook. The best cook is available. Management is not good.

Hari-śauri: We need a very expert manager for that guesthouse.

Prabhupāda: And in Bombay-before we get bad name—then it is lost.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everything has to be set up beforehand perfectly.

Prabhupāda: If required, we shall appoint professional man and keep everything very vigilant; things are going. Otherwise, once bad reputation—finished, so much attempt.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Our Mr. Chagriya should be able to give a lot of guidance and advice. I spoke with him a few years ago.

Prabhupāda: But he did not. Theoretical.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He has those hotels, Sea Palace Hotel. Svarūpa Dāmodara still has not come.

Prabhupāda: Then there is no hope of going to Manipur.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's very encouraging.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Especially in India...

Prabhupāda: Therefore...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's my first experience. The man whom I met in Bombay is the head of the chemistry section of the Balai(?) Atomic Research Center where they made this atomic bomb.

Prabhupāda: Fedder. Fedder Road.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In Trombay.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Trombay. Oh, yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. So I went there, and I had three and a half hours discussion.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Very good.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But he was on the other side.

Prabhupāda: Opposite side.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So he knows Hare Kṛṣṇa people.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He knew that I was from Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: No... And he said, "I do not like Hare Kṛṣṇa people"? They said?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He said that two times some of the devotees approached him, and he said they are very arrogant, and he expressed some ideas and he was not so much favorable.

Brahmānanda: This was here in India or in America?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In Bombay. This was in Bombay. Then I told him that "Let's forget about the religion now. Let's talk about science."

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Then that is all right. Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Then we started talking about the concept of life. So he would say that life is just combination of molecules, and I started asking questions because I knew all, what he was doing. I was following his papers. But he didn't know what he was doing. Then it came up to the point that he agreed to the limitations that we have in so many words that we say, but actually it's not true.

Prabhupāda: He admitted.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So where is that thing? Bring. Hm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is also our conclusion, that... Especially it is very useful in India to refer to Bhagavad-gītā. I bring up Bhagavad-gītā. I said, "If this can be done, then Bhagavad-gītā will be wrong."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Prove that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So it's not possible. So I also spoke in an Indian school in Bombay. There are about some three hundred students, plus professors. We even had a short kīrtana, Girirāja and about four five devotees, selling little books outside. So there was... They wanted us start with a kīrtana. So we started Hare Kṛṣṇa, and then they themselves started. The students started leading kīrtana. And I spoke on the... They all saw all the nice equipment...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa-bhakti nitya-siddha. This propensity is there already. We are simply awakening. That's all.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I found that in India, though, there are some people like that, but they are not as arrogant as... They are a little...

Prabhupāda: Because background is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Sukṛtina. Sukṛtina. They're not so sinful. In India they're not so sinful as the Western. Sukṛtina. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ janāḥ sukṛtinaḥ arjuna. And in the Western countries they are simply acting sinfully. Now Kīrtanānanda was prosecuted because he is not killing cows.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Rūpānuga: ...America we can make some headway. Because America, the scientists are very arrogant and dogmatic. They're not so receptive. Here there is...

Prabhupāda: Big, big animals. Big animals. They are animals, but big animals, because they have got money. "Money is sweeter than honey."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That Bombay auditorium, theater, Prabhupāda was saying, could be used for so many meetings.

Bali-mardana: Conferences. Scientific conferences.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Simply.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We can give very nice slide show there.

Prabhupāda: So you make Bombay your headquarter. India means Bombay. And from Bombay you go and come. Make this...

Bali-mardana: In the West now Indian scientists have a big name because they are making...

Prabhupāda: And recruit Indian scientists. Make it. It will be very nice. Let us go to Bombay and organize.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Gopāla Kṛṣṇa already told me that he will give us two rooms.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Two, three, as many rooms, you take.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That theater is very prominent.

Prabhupāda: Yes

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Bombay's very nice.

Prabhupāda: Very nice? Yes. Now see. (laughter) He is one of the person who helped you. When I went to Africa I asked Brahmānanda, "Are you going to support me?" He said, "Yes, I'll do." Then I signed. Otherwise I hesitated, that "These people are denying property..."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The people are envious of Bombay, especially this man, Sada. He's head of the Trombay that I talked. He was the... Everybody knew about our temple.

Prabhupāda: That is a good advertisement.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's not even complete yet, but already everybody knows about it, so popular.

Prabhupāda: And there is a big history behind this. (laughs) They wanted to throw away Rādhā-Rāsa-vihārījī. And I prayed always, "If you are thrown away, then it is..., my life is thrown away. You must stay here. It is a great insult." So He has not moved an inch.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And there is a big history behind this. (laughs) They wanted to throw away Rādhā-Rāsa-vihārījī. And I prayed always, "If you are thrown away, then it is..., my life is thrown away. You must stay here. It is a great insult." So He has not moved an inch.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I've taken all the parts of the picture of the temple because I want to show to Manipur ministers, so that...

Prabhupāda: So, first thing make your headquarter in Bombay, and make Manipur a Vaiṣṇava state. And recruit all scientists. And then attack these rascals, big animals. Shoot them, big animals.

Hari-śauri: Like a scientific safari.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are opposing. Intelligent men, they are seeing that This movement will finish our civilization. They are afraid. They have already said, "It is increasing like epidemic, and if we don't check them, within ten years they'll take the government."

Hari-śauri: A government official in Houston said it on the TV.

Bali-mardana: They are afraid for their lives.

Prabhupāda: So I am very much attached to that palace.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And on this Kṛṣṇa culture, the India was ruling all over the world. During Parīkṣit Mahārāja time there was only one flag. And now go to the United States organization—simply flag increasing, "United."

Brahmānanda: In Africa they just made a new country. It's the smallest country in the world. It's one little island. Now it's independent country.

Prabhupāda: This is going on. So for the time being let this program. We go to Vṛndāvana and from Vṛndāvana to Bombay, and then we make program there. Is that all right? If possible, invite some ministers.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But if you were to go to Manipur we have to make arrangements.

Prabhupāda: We can go from Bombay. What is the difficulty? From here or Bombay, after all, we have to go by plane, so there is no difficulty. Manipur going, there is no direct plane from Bombay to Manipur?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. From Bombay to Calcutta, Calcutta to Imphala, Manipur.

Prabhupāda: So that is not difficult. We can come to Calcutta and go to Calcutta, there. But if you organize Bombay center, recruit scientists, hold meeting, that is very nice proposal. There must be some state, ideal state. Just like the Russia is Communist state, and they're making nice propaganda, similarly we must have a Kṛṣṇa conscious state. What do you think?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is example.

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Regular practice.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The Russian government sent me a New Year's card this year. I showed you that card? The Russian government sent us a New Year's card.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I showed you in Bombay.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So I... What do you think, all GBC? He should be restricted in that way?

Rāmeśvara: There's no harm in being cautious.

Prabhupāda: Cautious we must be in every action. That is another thing, but for canvassing business, why one should be restricted?

Harikeśa: There's no question of restriction.

Haṁsadūta: No, it's just a matter of being cautious. That was his whole point.

Hṛdayānanda: It could be stated in such a way that Harikeśa will simply help. It's not a question of restricting the BBT salesman, but just to help him.

Prabhupāda: That is all right.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1977, Mayapura:

Girirāja: Because, I mean, if your health permits and if you could come every day, then we could arrange very leading people for all of those days...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Girirāja: ...and it would enthuse them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bombay is good place for propaganda, for making any movement popular.

Girirāja: Yes. People are very modern and advanced. In Delhi they're all...

Prabhupāda: Servant of.

Girirāja: Too much afraid of the government.

Prabhupāda: Servant class. They are not independent. (break) So I am very seriously thinking about organizing your institute. So how much hopeful it is?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: How much hopeful? I think there's a great potential. It is a great future, and I can see that if we start publishing the first journal, volume, then it's going to attract many people from the academic circles and intellectual surroundings, and in some time I can see there will be a whole new field of preaching in the academic circles all over the world, not only in India and United States, Canada, but Europe. Europe is going to be observe better centers along these lines. In fact, there are some very leading men in Cambridge and Oxford going to open the whole...

Prabhupāda: So arrange for that, what to do, immediately.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So arrange for that, what to do, immediately.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. So we have our Indian headquarters in Bombay, and we can organize in such a manner that...

Prabhupāda: Where you will give them place?

Girirāja: Well, we could give them where your quarters used to be. Next to the sannyāsī āśrama.

Prabhupāda: Will that do?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Especially when our new temple is complete, that lecture hall or that theater hall...

Girirāja: Oh, yes. This is just in the meantime.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, just for the time being?

Girirāja: Yeah.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah. For the time being actually, we are planning to finish up some of the articles that we have been writing. We want to make it in a final form. So the other two scientists are also here. The answer has to be printed, and Gopāla Kṛṣṇa promised me he could print it in our Bombay BBT. So we are just about ready to print about a few articles so that we can print as a monograph. Then, in about three months or so, I'm planning to leave for the States by the first week of April or so.

Prabhupāda: First week of?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Pardon?

Prabhupāda: First week? What did...?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, at the end of the first week of April, or in the middle of April at the latest.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: They pay for scientific lecture. When there is some scientific lecture...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. We are going to charge high also this time. That's going to be... It involves a lot of hard work, and the scientific community will be open for this type of.... We are not saying something dogmatic. We are presenting in such a manner that it's very scientific and it's ready for discussion. There's no way that they can check it, that "It's coming from this movement. So, no, that's no knowledge." It must be open. It must be open-minded. We must change our views. And if you feel that our views are inferior, then you tell us. If it's inferior, then there is no reason that you shouldn't take it seriously.

Prabhupāda: So when Bombay festival will go on, your presence will be required.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. I'll be coming... I already requested Girirāja to make a few engagements so that... I'd like them to speak. This time I will let them speak, our two scientists, because Americans. And I want to see the reactions also. I already know my situation there, and I want to let them speak, and they are very eager to do that. I already talked with them. So I requested Girirāja to make a few very high academic circles like Atomic Research Center. One of our men is very good in quantum physics. He can talk all about this mathematical formulations and a little bit about Bhagavad-gītā consciousness. So that would be...

Prabhupāda: That will be... (chuckles)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...very impressive to the Indian audience.

Girirāja: We know a big man in the Atomic Energy Department already, so I think you can arrange this meeting.

Prabhupāda: He's convinced?

Girirāja: Well, actually we met him some time ago, and at that time he liked your books a lot. He bought some of your books and he thought that this would help purify him and his family.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1977, Mayapura:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We were already thinking of printing about a few months ago before I came here in the form of monographs. We have already finished some articles. Mādhava suggested that we print this in the form of monographs and then combine within one journal. We in our Washington meeting in December we thought that idea because we thought the journal was not too far. So we printed the whole... I also want to talk with Rāmeśvara Mahārāja since he's here about printing policies and some of the artwork we'll be needing in the journal. I want to put a lot of illustrations, scientific, and want to make it very nice as well as very scientific. So in Bombay Gopāla Kṛṣṇa Prabhu told me that there's not so much facility for artwork and art.

Prabhupāda: Our men can do it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. But in BBT in Los Angeles.

Hari-śauri: They're all set up to do the whole thing, to do the artwork and print it very nicely. Gopāla's artwork is just... He gets the color separations from America.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is only disadvantage here. Otherwise he's ready to print. That they can do fast.

Prabhupāda: So there is no harm. We can do there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Where? In Los Angeles? But I don't know. Things are too slow in the West to communicate.

Prabhupāda: No, you can go. In your presence you can get it done.

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Not only here, but everywhere. The farm project is sound project. So what other things?

Satsvarūpa: There's quite a list of resolutions, yesterday's and today's. Beginning yesterday morning: We finished the last assignments of GBC men, that Jagadīśa will continue as the education minister and that Svarūpa Dāmodara will execute his GBC duties in connection with the Bhaktivedanta Institute, Eastern headquarters in Bombay, Western headquarters Washington, D.C., with Rūpānuga.

Prabhupāda: And Boston also? No.

Satsvarūpa: No. Today also with new preaching centers, Svarūpa Dāmodara was assigned the development of Manipur.

Prabhupāda: Vaiṣṇava state. Do you like this idea?

Rāmeśvara: Svarūpa, do you like the idea?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: And we discussed the sannyāsa recommendations. No one who was recommended last year for sannyāsa was approved this year. During the year they did not prove well. No one is here for initiation. And for next year no recommendations were made. Then... One man... And I was accepted as editor in chief of Back to Godhead. The details of the editorial policies that I should follow, I can take in consultation from my other GBC Godbrothers. And further, in an attempt to set a uniform standard so that Back to Godhead is like scripture, I should function as editor for all Back to Godheads published in the various languages. In this I should work in cooperation with the co-editors and BBT trustees of the various foreign language BTGs. There may be various co-editors of those magazines, but I will be responsible to keep a uniform standard.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The one who asked the question, "What is the most important thing in life?"

Prabhupāda: No, if our movement is organizedly pushed on, the Rajneesh position will be over. Rajneesh is already finished. He has no place in Bombay.

Guest (1): No, he has been driven out of Bombay. He has gone to Poona because all the hocus-pocus was going on, people were complaining. So on moral ground, he has been shifted to... I mean he had to go to Poona.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why do they let him stay there?

Guest (1): Because the people are not opposing. If they opposed him, he shall have to vacate there also.

Prabhupāda: What about Sai Baba?

Guest (1): He is doing some, but... He is doing all this gold bangles, and gold rings and all those things, giving it to the people. So people are attracted. Sometimes the biggest families which are blessed by him are also in Karmanis.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What happened to them?

Guest (1): They are all fighting.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One of them died, I remember.

Guest (1): That... One of them died. But some other people also fought in the families. Company can't pay heavy... They lost control of the company. If saints come and business is ruined, it is not correct. If he's a real saint, he should have guided them properly. All the professor(?) fighting.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Big family.

Guest (1): They are Jains

Prabhupāda: Who are these Karmani? They are famous family.

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Suppose I am a very big business magnate. Next life, if I am going to become a dog—according to my karma, the nature's law will act—then what is benefit? One day before, Indira Gandhi was so important. Next day I'll maybe(?) nowhere, finished. Nobody knows where is Indira Gandhi. Just twenty-four hours she was most prominent woman. And after twenty-four hours nobody cares to look at her. This nature's law, how you can check? This is going on. Any moment, anything can be changed by the laws of nature. So India's importance is there. They know the law. Therefore so long the body, full of intelligence, human body, is there, they'll utilize it very... That is life, not to be carried away by the waves of nature. This is India's duty. So we want to make our institution at least a place for understanding this knowledge. It doesn't matter only a few persons may understand. That is sufficient. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārāḥ sahasraśaḥ: "If you keep one moon in the sky, that is sufficient for light. What is the use of millions of stars?" Modern education, they are creating twinkling stars, millions. All useless for light. No light. And our Vedic civilization is: "Create one moon. That's all." That is sufficient. We respect, therefore, ācāryas. Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, not the so-called voted leaders. We don't care for them. What is their value? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). You say, "Oh, they are being liked, eulogized, by so many hundreds and thousands," but what these hundreds and thousands of people are? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-khara. They're kept in ignorance like dogs, hogs, camels and asses. This propaganda should go on by the ISKCON movement. Bombay is the nicest place. Invite them. Convince them. We have got answers for everyone, however big scientist, big philosopher, big politician. Bhāgavata has answered everyone. How selected animals' name has been given. This is Bhāgavata. How the comparison is perfect. I have tried to explain why a particular animal has been selected.

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The natural tendency of the people here is to be God conscious, but the government is artificially checking. Whether this new government will be any different?

Prabhupāda: No. The same fools, rascals.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we have to be very strong in our center here in Bombay.

Prabhupāda: We are for everyone. We are not for any nation, any particular person.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Our preaching has to be so strong, it will counteract the government's preaching, the movies and all these other Kali-yuga things.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. All influences.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I wanted to know how... Last night were you having any difficulty? Feeling any difficulty?

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Passing... (break)

Prabhupāda: Not this section, this nation, this religion, no, not like that. They are going to die, and they're organizing "health." Just see their intelligence. Butchers' health organization. Butcher is going to kill the animal tomorrow, and today he's seeing that health is..., healthy is animal. "Animal is...?" This is... So there is a health organization, WHO? World Health Organization?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. WHO. Geneva.

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. WHO. Geneva.

Prabhupāda: A butchers' health organization. Take these ideas all, there, everything is there, already mentioned. Cultivate. Try to give Kṛṣṇa in every... Let everyone come, stay with us, learn this art, preach all over the world. And Bombay is a city where you'll get all kind of help. Besides that, we shall get help from all over the world. But do it very cautiously, thoroughly. You don't take it as insignificant thing. Very important thing. I am talking of this Māyāpur. So this is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya. Why He's stressing bhārata-bhūmi? Yes. It's a fact. Real knowledge is here, Bhagavad-gītā. Speaking Kṛṣṇa Himself. Why such knowledge should be denied? Is that all right?

Pañcadraviḍa: To lose this knowledge? No, it's not all right.

Prabhupāda: People are in darkness. To keep them like dogs, hogs, camels, and take vote from them and become a leader... Nobody protested that we call all the men dogs, hogs, camels. Nobody came forward, that "You are using very strong words." It's a fact.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They agree.

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And they'll be glad. They have got money and they are getting culture. I am trying for United Nations. That is real attempt of United Nation, not this United Nation; all rogues and thieves and cheaters, barking dogs. I am trying for the United Nations. Help me. This is real United Nation. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām (BG 18.54). It is United Nation. So I began this movement very humbly, loitering on the street of New York. Now it has come to this stage. Let us cooperate together nicely.

Hṛdayānanda: Your Bombay project is very impressive. We've just taken a tour.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I persistently took that place. Nobody encouraged me. He is all. (laughter) Nobody helped me. I hesitated little, that "If I am persistent to take it, they will not cooperate. It may be failure." So still I took it. And only fifty thousand and one lakh of rupees I gave this thief Nyer: "All right, take it. Come on. Whatever I have got, you take it." Still he thought, "Oh. I'll get money."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He had already played the trick with one man.

Prabhupāda: Still, I took the risk that "I have no money. If he cheat me, that's all, but let me attempt."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then you installed the Deity as soon as possible.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Immediately Akash Ganga left. All Kṛṣṇa's desire.

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everyone is appreciating how wonderful this project is, all of Bombay.

Prabhupāda: So much obstacles, one after another, one after another, one after another.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa would not leave.

Prabhupāda: No. That was my request: "Please sit down here tight. Then I shall do everything."

Pañcadraviḍa: Practically, Girirāja has not left either.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He has not trembled in any circumstance. That is his qualification. That nasty, hot, mosquitoes. You also lived there. No gentleman can live.

Pañcadraviḍa: I lived there also, Śrīla Prabhupāda. So many rats.

Prabhupāda: Rats, mosquitoes, and so much inconvenience. Had no place. Sometimes here, sometimes there, sometimes there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You were also so inconvenienced. You had to move. One time you were living in that...

Prabhupāda: But you... For me you make good arrangement wherever I live, that's all. But I know how you were living in that nasty hut, full of dirty things, mosquito, rats, dropping of water. And Nyer is attacking, municipality attacking.

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That you are trained. (laughs) You don't care for this palace or underneath a tree.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Formerly we were living like that as hippies, and now we live like that to serve you.

Prabhupāda: I was living in Rādhā-Dāmodara temple. It was not a palace. But before that, I was living in a palace. That is Keśī-ghāṭa. But this Gosāi called me that "You live here?" And "All right." Svarūpa Dāmodara Gosvāmī's, er, yes, Jīva Gosvāmī's place. "Let me go there." Now organize. Make very good plan that our Bombay temple will be always crowded with thousands of men and some program must go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You mentioned the other day that five hundred devotees should always be there.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We have got place.

Pañcadraviḍa: Bombay?

Prabhupāda: We have got place. All right.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So enthusiastic. All young men.

Room Conversation -- March 24, 1977, Bombay:

Karttikeya Mahadevia: It is not personal. My mother was personally with his son, and they were in the same school. So he knew him for last thirty, forty years. My wife's sister and Mr. Morarji Desai were working in the same cabinet in Bombay in 1955. (indistinct) Śrīla Prabhupāda, would you like to take that tulasī and (indistinct) in afternoon? Only once, one serving.

Pañcadraviḍa: We can bring some ḍābs from down the road if you like.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I have already ḍāb.

Karttikeya Mahadevia: I'll bring it.

Prabhupāda: Nobody speaks about Indira Gandhi. (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's like she never existed.

Pañcadraviḍa: There's one big sign up that says, "When Mrs. I became All-I, then the people say, 'Goodbye.' " (laughter)

Prabhupāda: There is a sign like that?

Pañcadraviḍa: Yes, a big sign. I think it's on Marine Drive.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's Diamond Point. There's one person, he changes the phrase every week based on the current topics.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Air-India.

Room Conversation -- March 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Hṛdayānanda: Yes. And they have no doubt about Deity worship. By their culture they are accustomed to worshiping deity forms. So they like very much Deities... Everything they like—kīrtana, Deity worship, prasāda.

Prabhupāda: So revive it.

Pañcadraviḍa: And they are not so intelligent as others.

Karttikeya Mahadevia: That makes it easier for us.

Hṛdayānanda: They do not have so much tendency for speculation like Americans or Europeans. They do not argue very much philosophically. They like our philosophy, Bhagavad-gītā. Practically everyone believes in reincarnation, the soul's changing body. Practically no one will argue these things.

Prabhupāda: Who is the chief guest today?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One lady.

Karttikeya Mahadevia: Indira Bhai Bhaga,(?) the sheriff of Bombay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lady sheriff. Strange combination. (end)

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh. If they have arranged. I do not know what is your arrangement.

Girirāja: Oh, I'll find out. (long pause)

Prabhupāda: When you'll call Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

Girirāja: Some of the newly elected members from the Janta party are coming back to Bombay today and tomorrow. So we will try to invite one of them.

Prabhupāda: You say we have to go back to Juhu on... They say. (break) This is the center of mass movement.

Girirāja: Dr. Bigelow was also a heart specialist. You had that exchange of letters, this doctor in Canada. So he said that he felt that at the moment of death some particle or some force left the body which was not material and which could be called the soul, and he called upon theologians and scientists to research what is that thing that leaves the body and makes the body become dead.

Prabhupāda: Instead of going on Monday, we shall go on Wednesday.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think it's possible. (discussion about the slide show between devotees) (break)

Prabhupāda: So if you combine together and go to any scientist, you challenge and prove scientifically. And still he sees it mistake. You do not know what is life's position, but we shall. Life is different. Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). Without life, this matter has no value. This room is well decorated, well furnished. Why? Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat. Because the life is there. If there was no life, then who cares for Bombay? Heaps of stone, that's all. Who cares for it? So you do not know that particular item and try to convince them according to the modern scientific... Then we shall be triumphant. Everything. Everything. Challenge these rascals, that "You have got power and you will get more power by serving Kṛṣṇa." Your presentation was very nice.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Prabhupāda's mercy.

Prabhupāda: What Dr. Dattrey says, after hearing your lecture?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Many..., some engineers came, and some doctors also came. They wanted us speak in Bombay Hospital. And just now also I got a letter from England from Jagadguru Swami. He said that on our way to the United States we should stop in England. He says that he talked something about Bhaktivedanta Institute in England. He said we should speak in Oxford and Cambridge Universities. He said there is a very good preaching background there. So he invited us to...

Prabhupāda: You will be invited. You stick to your position and train up your assistants and recruit more and more. We shall come out successful. Write books. You can take. Now yesterday Dr. Dattrey, did he say anything?

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He didn't say much, but Dr. Sharma, he was discussing, and he was telling that he will definitely make an arrangement in Bombay Hospital for us to speak. But he was very impressed. And some life members came later on when the greeting of the pandal was finished. And some engineers also. They want to discuss something today also.

Prabhupāda: Recruit them. And speak in such societies. We have now our prestige and preaching. It will be very nice honor everywhere. So Kṛṣṇa has given you some talent. Utilize it. These rascals are misleading. Although the instruction is there, they are misinterpreting in their own way, misleading themselves and misleading others. They say the name of God. They do not know what is God, although God is explaining Himself. Such a rascal. God is explaining, "Here, I'm God." He is accepted, and they do not... When you ask them what is God: "That we do not know. Our God is (indistinct)." Such things are there. So they have to be convinced that these half-educated leaders cannot make you happy. It is not possible. They do not know the basic principle of life. Take guidance from Kṛṣṇa. That is our movement. You'll be happy. And don't be carried away by the whims. This is an important chance, human life. These motorcars are running, they are running just like the flies come, phut phut phut phut. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, Eleventh Chapter. Blind. Expedite death, that's all. There is no solution. The solution is here, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So recruit first of all. Just like these doctor friends. First of all get some friends.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Make them come, make them come. Treat them nicely. Give them good place. In this way increase the number of workers. Then people will, "Oh... They are not religious sentiments. They have got books, they have got scientists, they have got doctors." Is it not? And we can challenge them. "Come on, what is our education, let us test. We are prepared to talk with you like scientists." So you are all here now and... Organize in Bombay. Bombay, the center of Bhaktivedanta Institute.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: A few students came day before yesterday from Bombay University.

Prabhupāda: Let them come.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They wanted to study in Bhaktivedanta Institute.

Prabhupāda: Very good. Give them good place. We don't want tenants or... Turn the whole building into Bhaktivedanta Institute. And another building start. Yes. We have got enough place. I want that the intelligent man should come and learn this science. That is wanted.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Sharma just came here from the United States. He studied for a few years. So he is also a cardiologist.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And he had some friends there in Bombay Hospital, and he is going to definitely make arrangement so we can give a seminar in the hospital.

Prabhupāda: Important man. Recognize him. Make him member.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We will also make some engagements in... There is an institute called Patha Institute for Fundamental Research. They study about nuclear physics. So I am going to arrange for one of our people to speak.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Speak in important institution like that. That will command respect.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He is going to speak about quantum physics and Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: These things the swamis cannot do.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is ignorance. Childish. A child does not know what he is doing. That is the difference between a child and elderly man. Yesterday there was sufficient crowd, I think.

Śrīdhara: There was nice crowd, all respectable men also. Tonight it will be bigger.

Gargamuni: Sunday is always the biggest.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I find Bombay people are a little bit more open-minded.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Bombay is the best city in India, undoubtedly. From the very beginning, and the richest city. The government revenue is collected from Bombay sixty-three percent. Bombay is so rich. Sixty-three percent from Bombay and thirty-seven percent from whole of India. That is the position.

Śrīdhara: Calcutta is also very wealthy.

Prabhupāda: No.

Girirāja: They keep the money in black.

Śrīdhara: Oh, in black money.

Prabhupāda: And religiously-minded.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, I find almost everybody appreciates Śrīla Prabhupāda so much, especially in Bombay. Anybody who knows about Śrīla Prabhupāda, they highly appreciate, especially these scholars. But in Delhi it is very different. People are very close-minded.

Prabhupāda: And government servant. After all, they are servants. In Bombay, they are in big, big business. They are limited. The government servants, they are limited. They are important so long they are on the post. Otherwise, they have no importance.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: From Delhi?

Hari-śauri: That I still have to decide. I'm going to ring tomorrow morning and see what the situation is at the consulate.

Prabhupāda: From Delhi you can go to Singapore. From Singapore to Sydney.

Hari-śauri: Yeah. There are direct flights also, that they come, Delhi, Bombay and then straight to Perth and then Sydney.

Prabhupāda: I left from Delhi to Bombay.

Hari-śauri: If you fly from Delhi, they come Delhi, Bombay, Perth, Sydney, like that.

Prabhupāda: Perth. Oh.

Hari-śauri: Yes. Instead of going to the Far East, they go straight to Perth. And then refuel and then go on.

Prabhupāda: So Perth is nearer.

Hari-śauri: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: I have been in Perth.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: And similarly the today's government leaders should also take advice from the saintly person.

Prabhupāda: We can give nice instructions.

Girirāja: He wanted to arrange a meeting with Morarji Desai this week, but I told him that it would be better not to arrange anything until he comes back to Bombay in a week. But he gave me his phone number in Delhi if we want to contact him.

Prabhupāda: You want me to go there?

Girirāja: No, I think it's better... First of all, as you mentioned last...

Prabhupāda: If he comes, I'll come.

Girirāja: Yeah.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think that Bombay is very important, so Morarji Desai must visit here. And when he visits here, he is a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, so we can invite him to our temple. And at that time he can see you.

Prabhupāda: With his associates, invite him, give him prasādam.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That will be more impressive then. You should not have to go. The administrator comes to the guru. And if he won't come to you, then there is no question of his helping, anyway.

Girirāja: Right.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If he comes we shall speak on this.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. He can give them a tour of Hare Kṛṣṇa Land. I think the more publicity we can get now of these temple and towers, that will get the people's anticipation all over Bombay very keen, so when it finally opens, millions of people will come.

Prabhupāda: And if Morarji Desai comes to Bombay...

Girirāja: I asked Mr. Rajda if he was coming, so he said that... (break) (later conversation, speech going on in background)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say that this is a sign of inhumanity. That we...

Prabhupāda: Inhumanity means I do not like you; still, I have to mix with you. Is that inhumanity?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, if you are my relative, then...

Prabhupāda: Whatever you may be. If you have no business with me, I have no interest in you, why shall I mix with you? That is everywhere. If some very busy businessman is sitting in his room and some other man comes, he, first he will ask, "What is the business?" If he says something else, then "I have no interest." This is common thing. What is the wrong there? If he says that "I have no interest," what is the wrong there? How I can accuse that is inhumanity?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say that the family unit is the basic unit of civilization.

Prabhupāda: Well, family, that is alright. But even sometimes a father does not like the son, although it is the family. Or the son does not like the father. So what is the wrong there? They must agree to the point that of the same interest. So those who are interested in permanent, I mean to say, life, why they should be interested in this temporary so-called adjustment?

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is his exact position?

Girirāja: He is a member of parliament from Bombay South, which is the most prestigious district, from Kalabha up to (indistinct), something like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He formerly helped us?

Girirāja: Yes. When Mattrey was, did that demolition attempt, so he was one of the leaders in the corporation. So he fought for us. In fact today also he asked if there was any trouble, because he still is also maintaining his position in the municipal corporation. So I think when he gets back from Delhi in a week, I might bring up some of our little problems.

Prabhupāda: That plan sentence.(?)

Girirāja: Yeah. And that road, that ten feet.

Prabhupāda: What benefit they will get?

Girirāja: No, only harassment, they have... They have nothing to gain actually. And everyone knows it. But they are just so weak and political minded that they don't want to stand up against Mattrey, the officers. Anyway, I think I should go now then.

Prabhupāda: He is coming?

Girirāja: Yes. I'll bring him here so there will be no unnecessary waiting. And...

Prabhupāda: What time?

Girirāja: By eight at the latest. We'll try for earlier also. (break)

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Rajda: I have come for your darśana when you were at Walkasha(?) last time when you came to Bombay.

Girirāja: At Bhogilal Patel's.

Mr. Rajda: Then much water was thrown in the Arabian Sea, and for nineteen months I was in jails.

Prabhupāda: Jail?

Mr. Rajda: Yes. In that emergency, you know, and about 150,000, patriotic people were in jails, J. K. Prakash, Morarji and all Hindu leaders and all of the workers. So I was kept at Central Prison for nineteen months. Then they released me, and after this election period, just I would order to fight the elections from Bombay South. And with her blessings I have won it with a very comfortable margin, 65,000. Just now we were at Shivaji Pack. And when Girirājajī told me that you were here, I told him definitely I would like to ask for darśana.

Prabhupāda: The material adjustment... Just like we felt little danger under the regime of Indira Gandhi. Now we have another feeling. This is material adjustment. Material adjustment may be temporary beneficial, but that is not permanent beneficial.

Mr. Rajda: Unless there is adhyātmika adjustment, there cannot be lasting benefit.

Prabhupāda: The difficulty is... That we do not know. Just like you take a fish from the water and put it on the land. It will never become happy. Again you throw him in the water, he will feel happy. So the living entity is different from prakṛti. In Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly stated, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtim. These material elements, earth, water, air, fire, ether, mind, intelligence, ego, these are gross and subtle material elements. And the living being, jīva-bhūta, is superior than the inferior material elements. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām. Parā-prakṛti, it is part and parcel of God. Unless we understand this fact, which is very nicely explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, this material adjustment will never make us happy.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Let there be one institution for training Indian youth, for this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Mr. Rajda: That could be done.

Prabhupāda: You do it, and it will be wonderful thing. Do it. In New Delhi. Or in Bombay we have got now very nice building.

Mr. Rajda: In Juhu.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Cooperate with us. It is scientific. Last night our Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara presented very scientifically. We can challenge any scientist, any philosopher. So if you become serious, if you cooperate with us, this institution can set a great example, not only in India, but to the whole world. So you are so kind, you have come to see me. You have got desire. So let us take it seriously.

Mr. Rajda: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Correct.

Prabhupāda: It is serious, but nobody has taken it seriously. Bhagavad-gītā is popular book. Everyone takes the Bhagavad-gītā and says, "I am student of Bhagavad-gītā." It is very simple thing. And if the leaders of the society, they set example, others will follow.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Rajda: Yes, religious principles.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). We are opening gurukula in Vṛndāvana. We can open here also. We have got land, so let us cooperate. The things are there. We haven't got to manufacture it. Simply we have to take the program seriously. Then everything will be all right.

Mr. Rajda: Por how many days you are here in Bombay?

Prabhupāda: At least for one month.

Mr. Rajda: To one month. I am returning on seventh again here. Then I shall come here. Tomorrow I am going for Delhi, but on seventh I am returning. Seventh I will come here again.

Prabhupāda: So you come and let us (indistinct).

Mr. Rajda: And we can detail some letters for business.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Hari-śauri: This is 1.2. I think that verse is quoted here in the Gītā though.

Prabhupāda: So nice thing. Even little done, you get chance again. The students who are coming, give them nice place, nice food, nice intelligence. Organize Bombay. You will get many enlightened students, professors, doctors. "Come on, live with us."

Hari-śauri: It is quoted in the purport in connection with this,

nehābhikrama-nāśo 'sti
pratyavāyo na vidyate
svalpam apy asya dharmasya
trāyate mahato bhayāt
(BG 2.40)

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Hari-śauri: (reads) "In this endeavor there is no loss or diminution, and a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear."

Prabhupāda: The most dangerous type of fear is if my next life I become an animal. That is the most dangerous. But those who have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, given some service, for them there is no such fear. He gets another chance. Hmm.

Room Conversation -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Our abridged edition of Bhagavad-gītā is there in the pandal?

Hari-śauri: Oh, yes. All the big books. The Bhāgavatams, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Gītā. (pause)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We need some artists in Bombay, some artists to paint.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Some artists. I was told that some are coming from Los Angeles?

Prabhupāda: Why?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: (converses with Hari-śauri about art for journals)

Prabhupāda: So you are feeling on this stronger platform? Hm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That is wanted.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Detroit also.

Prabhupāda: Not so much. When I was there it was very clear.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You picked a good time of the year. London and Paris at the right time is very good. Say June, May, June, July. But nine months or eight months of the year, it becomes difficult.

Prabhupāda: In Bombay especially, advantages. The whole side, green. Therefore it keeps the atmosphere mild. Simply in Bombay. Not in this Bombay Province, Maharashtra. (break) Up to the end of the day, here is air and light. Up to the end. Good advantage.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very peaceful, too. (long pause)

Prabhupāda: You can keep some āsana like this.

Hari-śauri: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Indian man: (recites Sanskrit ślokas)

Prabhupāda: Bring in the āsana. (Hindi with guest) (break) If you like, you can make this bed this size, not my size.

Hari-śauri: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (devotees are fixing something for Śrīla Prabhupāda) (pause)

Prabhupāda: Now you combine together and present this Kṛṣṇa consciousness throughout the whole world. (Hindi) You have been acquainted with the other scientists?

Dr. Sharma: Yes, I have met Swami Mādhava dāsa and his colleague, and I've gone through that article recently that they sent me about creation coming out of chaos. It is a very wonderful written article. They will be a real eye-opener for the scientists really. And I understand that you have a big plan to start a research institute with the help of the scientists. This will be really something that...

Prabhupāda: All Indian scientists should join.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, by this Congress. Their opinion is that India is too much religious; they spoiled.

Dr. Sharma: Yes. Also I just happened to do a survey in South about the party brāhmaṇas who were having the...

Prabhupāda: The brāhmaṇas, they, from your Rajasthan, the other day, I got before. Twenty thousand brāhmaṇas have come here in Bombay to serve as tea-walla.

Dr. Sharma: Tea-walla. That is correct.

Prabhupāda: So who is caring for the... Because there is no maintenance, there is no education, so how the brāhmaṇas are being maintained?

Dr. Sharma: These, the Rajasthani brāhmaṇas were not that, you know, strong brāhmaṇas as you see in south. In the south the brāhmaṇas are very Vaiṣṇavas, very staunch, and they were veda-paṭhīs. They had the whole aural...

Prabhupāda: No. Veda... Because the brāhmaṇas, they should be veda-paṭhī, at the same time, the public also must know the importance of Vedas. So if you prepare the public that it is useless, then how these brāhmaṇas can be maintained?

Dr. Sharma: Right now the number is dwindling so fast. The number of people who have the...

Prabhupāda: Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Kali-yuga... (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...to go to the universities all over and present Kṛṣṇa consciousness as a science. Write articles, using medical science to prove that Kṛṣṇa is the origin. (indistinct)

Dr. Sharma: And there is a lot of scientific data in our ancient scriptures which I told them that if they go through from their point of view they will find lot of things in Purāṇas, in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in many Vedic...

Prabhupāda: No, apart from Purāṇas and Vedic literatures, scientifically it is the modern science, according to their way, we can convince. Purāṇas you may not believe the authority. I may not believe. But scientific truth has to be accepted.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No. The real thing he does not know. We know. We know on the basis of śāstra, authorities, ācāryas, so many. And what is your support? Your support is yourself. Then everyone will do that. His support is himself. Everyone will become authority. "I think, I believe." What is this nonsense, your belief? These things should be stopped now. (Hindi) Misleading, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). These conditioned souls, very stringently bound up hands and legs by the laws of nature, they are trying to lead the human society. This rascaldom must be stopped. You do not know. Say you do not know. That's all. Why you mislead others? Giving them false knowledge. If you do not know even the distinction between the living entity and the material elements... You are trying to prove the living entity is also combination of these material elements, chemicals. Such a rascal you are. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly said, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām, jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho yayedam (BG 7.5). It is very important thing. You do not know anything about it. Kṛṣṇa again says, nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ nainaṁ chindanti śastrāṇi. Negative definition. Still, you are so rascal, you do not understand, and you are misleading innocent persons. So combine together as many as possible and go and challenge.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Dr. Sharma can help us a lot in Bombay. Because I find that medical institutions, you know, hospitals, is a very good place to speak to the doctors. Because this life, this concept of life, and these bio-medical ethics is very appropriate. So...

Dr. Sharma: Yes, actually, this concept is very timely for our country, Prabhupāda. My feeling is that our country has a special place in the Lord's heart, because He came here several times. And the very fact that after independence, nobody could prevent it again, and you have come, all these things, to stop it now. And I think the thing should start from...

Prabhupāda: At least, I am the first man to try for it.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That theatrical group will also be popular in Communist countries. That drama group will also be popular.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, drama group also. That is from artistic side. And from scientific side. And gradually we are making Bombay as the headquarters. So occasionally you come and go, and if possible tackle these men and find money to be spent.

Guru dāsa: Yes, visa.

Prabhupāda: We are doing with so many temples. That is Indian property.

Guru dāsa: Yes. Now I think I should go and see a bigger man than him.

Prabhupāda: At least give permanent residence for one hundred men. Then we can manage.

Guru dāsa: Yes. It is a waste of our time. Anyway, Indira is gone, so that will help.

Prabhupāda: Mahā-pāpī. But one pāpī replaced by is another pāpī. Yes. If they take our advice, then it can be...

Guru dāsa: So your health appears all right to me.

Prabhupāda: I think due to Bhavānanda Mahārāja. He is taking care.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: I spoke to Mr. Rajda on the telephone this morning. So he has already spoken to the Prime Minister about your meeting, and the Prime Minister gladly accepted.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Girirāja: So he told him that you weren't able to come to Delhi now. So I told him that he should again speak to him that when he comes to Bombay, he can meet you here. So Mr. Rajda said that there is no difficulty in arranging that, and that he would speak to the Prime Minister today.

Prabhupāda: He wants me to meet there in Delhi.

Girirāja: No. He is going to arrange for the Prime Minister to meet you here in Bombay, at Juhu.

Prabhupāda: Immediately one copy send to Mr. Rajda.

Girirāja: Now Mr. Rajda is coming tomorrow for one day.

Prabhupāda: So let him meet me, appoint him, give him some time. Invite him for prasādam. With his associates.

Girirāja: He is coming in the morning and leaving in the evening.

Prabhupāda: So daytime he can take...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lunch prasādam.

Girirāja: Well, see he's coming because he is a leader in the municipal corporation, and tomorrow they are electing the new mayor. So I was thinking that probably on the way to the airport in the evening we could invite him to stop here.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the Hindi Bhāgavatam has been very appreciated, after the lamination that plastic coating we have put, it looks better. Actually the presentation is even better than the Spanish Bhāgavatams. I got some new, even improved binding, bound books today. I'll send them to you tonight or tomorrow. They look very first class. I am sending Prem Yogi back to Vṛndāvana tomorrow, because First Canto, Part Two, is almost composed. So it requires to be proofread before I bring it to Bombay for printing. So the work is just being delayed. And also there is just one week's work left on First Canto, Part Three. So I told him to go back to Vṛndāvana for two weeks, and if you go to Srinagar, I promised him I would send him to Srinagar, because he wants to go to a cold climate. Then after that...

Prabhupāda: Yes. If I go I will call him.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. So this way he was encouraged because he wants...

Prabhupāda: There was another place, Solen.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Solen, yes. It is near Simla.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Somebody wanted to give us that place.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Near Chandigarh.

Prabhupāda: So why not take that place?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Our only problem was we didn't have men to keep there on a permanent basis.

Prabhupāda: If he wants, he can go.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a good idea. I can meet them in Delhi. I know those people.

Prabhupāda: Then do that.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They are also ready to...

Girirāja: Yes, because that's the rate I established. We checked the market rate. Plus we want them to give six months of rent in advance, plus we want another benefit from them. I was recently in Hyderabad, and I saw an advertisement in the Hindu paper of Madras by a temple, which advertised the deity of the temple and said you can make a donation, and you can make a donation at any of the branches of the Indian bank, Bank of Madras. So one of the things I have been talking to these banks is when we open a Bombay temple we would like to try this approach here, advertise the Deities, have a small story about the Deities, and say anyone who wants to make a donation can make it at any branch of State Bank of India without any charge. And then the bank must agree to give us this service, collect the money and remit to us. So with the banks who have been coming I have been asking them...

Prabhupāda: They will deposit in Bombay.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, any branch. Like this is more attractive, because a branch may be close to their house. They just go in and say, "Take this ten rupees and give to Rādhā-Rāsavihārī temple in Juhu." So the bank... I spoke to three banks. They agreed. So this condition also they must agree, because this will be a very novel way of getting donations in Bombay area. They do this in the south.

Guest (1): (name of a temple)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. I cut that advertisement. I was very attracted when I saw it. Do you think it is a good idea?

Prabhupāda: Hm. Go to...

Devotees: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Guest (1): Slowly about the program is that. I am trying to liquidate my assets in Allahabad because all this my dead father, dead mother, brother, all the properties are gone now. So when that is free, I'll take up this property here.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. He is well known. (break) (reading:) "The only remedy lies in the ending of their subservience to the higher castes and securing for them economic independence. But according to the Bhāgavatam, a śūdra can never be given economic independence. If they want economic independence, they should elevate themselves to the higher castes."

Prabhupāda: It will not become higher caste. They do not know. Economic independence, who is checking now? There is no such check all over the world. Just like in Bombay. Everyone can do business. So why they cannot do?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because they are not intelligent enough.

Prabhupāda: That means they have no intelligence.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means they are śūdra. And if someone is a śūdra, how can you let him have his own money?

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, everything requires intelligence. If you haven't got that standard of intelligence, how you can do it? Nowadays, suppose if you do some business, is there a hindrance that "You are low class, you cannot do this business." Neither the government nor the society. You can do it. Why you cannot do it? Just like in Bengal, the Marwaris are rich and Bengalis are... Their land, their country, and their naturals. And the Marwaris have big (indistinct). It is your incapability. Why don't you admit that?

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: We can actually help them. Not by imagination, but practical application. And are doing all over the world. (break) In '68 I was alone. And I had to struggle very, very hard, alone. Therefore I got heart attack in 1967. Then that heart attack and regress continued for two years. Whatever is done, it is done from 1969. Before that, I was simply alone struggling to start this mission. (pause) Before that, I came to Bombay.

Indian: In '69?

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Indian: '70?

Prabhupāda: '64. I stayed at Morarji's Andheri...

Indian: Andheri House.

Prabhupāda: ...Colony for his employees.

Indian: Scindia Steamship.

Prabhupāda: Yes, colony. I stayed there. Sometimes I stayed with one gentleman in Churchgate. He is a banker, Sindhi gentleman. In '65, Sumati Morarji gave me that ticket.

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For seven years.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, I've already typed that letter for eighty thousand, so I can add an N.B., that an additional twenty thousand is coming from Calcutta, and as soon as it comes...

Prabhupāda: Yes, you advise to Bombay, advise him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Should I enclose a copy of the letter to Calcutta also?

Prabhupāda: Hm. Not that... Letter written to Calcutta, that copy should be enclosed to the...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that's what I meant. Actually, that's good because he'll be eager to follow through to see that the money comes, because he is going to get the benefit of fixing it in his bank. (pause)

Prabhupāda: If possible we can start a center in Srinagar. If there is opportunity. Many foreigners come?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Many foreigners come.

Prabhupāda: If we start a center there, it will be very nice. That will be also one of the items of tourist program.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can get Dr. Karan Singh's help very easily in Srinagar.

Prabhupāda: And Raja Sheik Abdullah has taken our Bhagavad-gītā, so we can invite him to talk.

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He will take from Delhi?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The train? No, actually he can take from Bombay.

Prabhupāda: From Bombay to Kashmir direct.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Either direct or through Delhi. The Punjab Mail. I think there is a Punjab Mail.

Prabhupāda: Punjab Mail goes up to border of Kashmir.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So something like that. I mean we could fix that up.

Prabhupāda: No, as many books you can carry without any difficulty, you can take.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: On the plane. Okay. Maybe Guru dāsa should wait there for awhile. If Guru dāsa and I go together as a preaching team, we can conquer anywhere.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean we will bring everyone that you want to see.

Prabhupāda: If you send a report, tell him that "You stay; we are coming."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We should send a telegram. But his letter is coming. So I think we should wait for his letter and then reply it. Yeah, because in the afternoons there is no problem for me to go out for a few hours preaching with him, you know, if need be.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: We have seen many canvassers. (calling like street vendor:) "Bataka."(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm.

Prabhupāda: Kada bataka.(?) Everyone has to eat. The Maharastrians, they eat, even the brāhmaṇas. In 1927, I came to Bombay and stayed in the Empire Hindu Hotel. I think it is still there. Very nice hotel. So it is under Maharastrians. Very neat and clean everything. Gave me onions. "What is this? Onions?" I was surprised. "I don't eat."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He must have been surprised that you wouldn't eat it.

Prabhupāda: Well, they know... Mostly Hindus they do not eat. But they are accustomed now. Just like Bengal, fish eating is no offense.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even the brāhmaṇas.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Brāhmaṇa, gosāis, so-called gurus.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When has this all begun, this fish-eating in Bengal? This was always going on?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Fish, ninety-nine percent people take fish in Bengal. Only few, they do not. When there is some, what is called, ceremony, fish must be there. (break) And fish is available. Now Bengal is divided. Otherwise, immense fish in Bengal.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He wanted.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading) "When Mrs. Gandhi was elected president of the Congress we recall that her father first disapproved of the proposal made by S. K. Patila at a Bombay meeting. She also knows that she was elected to the high office of Prime Minister and not imposed from the top, as Sanjay Gandhi was sought to be imposed by the gestures eloquent enough for all the sundry to understand. We hope that she will accept her Himalayan blunders in the spirit of Gandhiji and she might persuade herself to retire to Vinod Bhave's āśrama and brood long enough to (indistinct) prior power to be (indistinct) to everybody."

Prabhupāda: (break) ...now by Kṛṣṇa's mercy only she is finished. Yes. Wonderfully finished. Without Kṛṣṇa's hand, it was impossible. We never expected. Samūla-chāṅṭā.(?) There is one word, samūla-chāṅṭā. Just like you cut one tree, this is one, but the root remains there: again the tree. Samūla-chāṅṭā means to get out the root, pluck out the tree with the root and throw it. So this woman has been done like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She's been plucked out at the root. So she won't grow again.

Prabhupāda: Rather, if she remains in the Congress, Congress is finished.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She is trying to remain, it seems.

Prabhupāda: That is... Then Congress will lose all importance. Her very name has to be driven out. And it is proved that majority of the congressmen, they are rogues. They supported her. I have...

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Bhakti-caru: (break) "And is it possible that she did not know of his interference from her own house in exercise of executive authority in many matters appointments? Did she not see newspaper reports of vast gatherings often paid for and brought to her family by her chief minister to provide an audience and popular build-up for the Raj Kumar, as he came to be called. Those of us who knew her father are sanguined at Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru could never have allowed himself to entertain a dynastic order. When Mrs. Gandhi was elected president of the Congress, we recall that her father first disapproved of the proposal made by S. K. Patila at a Bombay meeting." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...is to bring her in limelight again, Indira.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now it's purposely there. Actually, that's a fact. It seems like now they are purposely not...

Prabhupāda: Mentioned.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...mentioned. Out of sight, out of mind. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...release her on account of mercy of Ānandamaya(?).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really. She was thinking like that.

Prabhupāda: And this is also mercy of Ānandamaya(?). Some young yogis she was keeping?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, there was one who was coming to America who seemed that to have been very intimate with her. He was able to call her on the telephone. She would come to the telephone. He helped us, though, in our court case. Ādi-keśava warned him. Because he was sometimes meeting all these women. Many women were coming to see him in New York. Many fashionable wealthy people. So Ādi-keśava Mahārāja warned him that "If you associate with these women, you will fall down." He liked Ādi-keśava very much and helped him, because he could see that he was strict sannyāsī. (break)

Prabhupāda: At this time, in other parts of India it is very hot.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: April, very hot. Actually, I'm pretty...

Prabhupāda: Except in Calcutta.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Calcutta and Bengal has got a facility. Every evening there is a small shower of rain. That keeps the temperature mild. During this April-May, you will find every evening there is a thunderstorm and little shower. That is in Bengal's special... A good wind will come. Sometimes it is cyclonic. And immediately the whole atmosphere will be reduced temperature. Sometimes in U.P. also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Another advantage of these months is that the mango starts to come into season.

Prabhupāda: Hm. In Bombay mango is the first-class.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But you are leaving Bombay.

Prabhupāda: Doesn't matter. I am not after eating. There is no scarcity of mango, but who will eat?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: From Bombay, mango is sent everywhere in India also.

Prabhupāda: All over the world. Bombay apus.(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are called langar?

Prabhupāda: Apus. Here in the Ratnagiri District, especially in that place, this mango grows. In India it is known as Bombay ām. In India, in Northern India, there is, there are so many mangoes, very nice. One is langara, another is a small. I forget the name. That is also very nice.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "10) The property committee should also be consulted on leases." Up until now, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we have a property committee, consisting of Rāmeśvara Mahārāja, Jayatīrtha Prabhu, Ātreya Ṛṣi and myself. And we have always been consulted on all property purchases. But we now decided that we should also be consulted on property leases. Because leases are also very... They can be very disastrous also if they are improperly entered into. Especially any long-term leases. Of course, they also have to deal through their local GBC, but then they also deal with it practically. "11) It was noted that a total of $630,000 would be available for construction purposes between now and the end of 1977. $300,000 dollars is the minimum required for emergency US loans. This leaves $330,000 dollars for India. Of the $330,000 dollars, $240,000 is required to complete the pledge of one crore to Bombay. The balance should be available for the other projects in India, contingent on the Bombay project staying within its budget. That is $90,000." So this poses a problem which you partly solved already, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Surabhi Swami informed us that the original budget of a million dollars would be not sufficient, but it would reach more like one and a half million dollars. So this means that half a million dollars has to come from somewhere. So Gurukṛpā Mahārāja agreed to send 200,000 dollars. But still there will be a balance of about... Rāmeśvara said there is 100,000 left to send. So still there is going to be a balance of about 200 to 300,000 dollars needed. So we will have to find out where that can come from for finishing this Bombay project. "12) Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja was appointed to oversee the BBT monies sent to India. He will work in collaboration with the Indian GBC." That means when they send money from overseas to be spent here, they wanted me to see that it was properly spent, along with the GBC man of the local temple. "13) It is not the BBT's business to pay for publishing children's books."

Prabhupāda: No, not...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "14) All foreign language editions of BTG will include a section of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam."

Prabhupāda: Hm, that's nice.

Room Conversation -- April 13, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Which... It is... Very much. One program is clear. I think our this Cross Maidan pandal has given the people study.

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Bombay people.

Girirāja: When we meet people, they comment about it.

Prabhupāda: What do they say?

Girirāja: That "You had a very big program, and..." They know the theme also. They say, "Yes, the theme was modern civilization, and it failed, and the only solution is Kṛṣṇa consciousness." And then, having so many leading people praise your work...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually a letter came yesterday, I think, from the chief minister. I haven't opened it yet. Shall I bring it?

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Fan.

Upendra: (bringing garlands) This one was made by a little girl. The boy who fixed the buzzers, his little daughter made.

Prabhupāda: This is our flower? Hm? Get all round, flower, the first land vacant. You should plant them. Puṇyo gandhaḥ pṛthivyāṁ ca.

Upendra: Paramparā mālās. There's five mālās here for the paramparā.

Prabhupāda: First of all hear. Then tomorrow they... Kṛṣṇa is helping. He'll help more, more. We are not going to be misled by their leadership.

Room Conversation -- April 13, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Pay to your... No.

Girirāja: Self.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Pay to self," yeah. Should I make the check out?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Girirāja: At Mr. Rajda's office the ex-mayor was there. One of the ex-mayors of Bombay was there. He was the chief guest here on Vyāsa-pūjā day two years ago. So he had recently visited our New York center, and he liked it very much, New York and Washington, D.C.

Prabhupāda: He's impressed. He told Mr. Rajda? He informed Mr. Rajda?

Girirāja: Um, not... No, he didn't, not when I was there. But I am sure they had talked. I mean, people are very aware of our movement, at least superficially, that we are building something, we're doing some... One weekly newspaper editor...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think I'm going to write... If you leave me a tiny bit of room, I'll write "For International Society for Krishna Consciousness Building Fund" just above.

Prabhupāda: Write there.

Room Conversation -- April 13, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Girirāja: He's asked us to have a column in his newspaper every week for questions or answers, so that the readers can send their questions and then we will give our answer. He will pay. He wants to make a regular weekly feature. It's called The Bombay Times.

Prabhupāda: Newly started?

Girirāja: I don't know how old it is, but now they're making a big push to make it popular.

Prabhupāda: At least one day or two day in a week important men may come here, live here. You hold meeting in that auditorium.

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Make friends with them about real knowledge.

Girirāja: And then Mr. Bajaj... Mr. Bajaj was on the same plane going to Poona.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Girirāja: So he wants to arrange another meeting of the Gītā Conference. So he's thinking of either Kurukṣetra or Vṛndāvana. So I suggested that they should hold it at our Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. So he's seriously thinking of it. But he's not very much intelligent. I mean, he's not able to understand the Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: They are influenced by these rascals, Vinod Bhave and company.

Girirāja: Actually he has no idea what the Bhagavad-gītā says.

Prabhupāda: What he has done?

Girirāja: Who? Bajaj?

Prabhupāda: No, this Vinod Bhave?

Girirāja: None of them has done anything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Training up some women.

Prabhupāda: No, he's still present. Eight dozens of women, they are residing somewhere.

Room Conversation -- April 13, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: He is seventy-five. He was saying that... He's written some sentimental books about Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's flute and this and that. But anyway, he was just saying that he couldn't imagine how you could do so much. You know, he said, unless you were empowered by God, you could not have done this. He said with great difficulty he had published one book in America, and you'd published so many books, sales, and making devotees, and establishing centers. He wasn't feeling well, but he said he would really like to come here and offer...

Prabhupāda: Bombay?

Girirāja: ...his obeisances.

Prabhupāda: Why not invite them? And immediately you should have invited him.

Girirāja: No, yes, I did.

Prabhupāda: So you can stay there. We have a good place.

Girirāja: He sent... I didn't bring them with me. He sent two of his books with a message, and he said that he wanted your blessing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When you give them to me, we can write him a letter inviting him to come, thanking him for the books. Śrīla Prabhupāda, this telegram arrived. Remember that letter from Mahāṁśa requesting 75,000 rupees for his farming? So we've replied him. The letter's going to be given to you today for signing. First of all agree to the principle of the loan, then I'll give you... So a telegram arrived. "Please expedite letter dated 9/4/77."

Prabhupāda: So do it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So still we should send him that letter. Okay. I think... I mean, there has to be a principle of loan. Otherwise... Apart from that, there wasn't any... (end)

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is being done all over the world. If you simply understand this one line, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ... (BG 2.13). So today I am Indian, and after death I become something else. There are 8,400,000 different bodies. Today I may be very exalted minister, and tomorrow, if I become something else... I'll have to, because nature's law, you cannot check. Tathā dehānt... Just like here is child. You cannot check to become young man. That is not in your power. She must become or he must become. Similarly, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ, it is not in your hand or in my hand. It is in the hand of the prakṛti. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā (BG 3.27). So there are so many things that... The human society requires this knowledge and we are trying to give this knowledge alone with our humble attempt, and these foreigners are helping with their prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā, by their life, by their money, by their intelligence, by their words. (aside:) Give them pad. They cannot sit comfortably. There is pad. Give him. Pads. Yes. No, no. Oh. (Hindi) Sukham asinaḥ.(?) First of all one must... Give her. So we have got, at least in Bombay, the most important place in India, this institution. So come here. Try to understand the philosophy. There is no difficulty. But we neglect it. We are simply ne..., and distorting. Everyone is giving his own interpretation. Eh? Then when, where is the importance of Kṛṣṇa? If Bhagavad-gītā is a book who is authority, and if you interpret and give your own interpretation, then where is the authority? Suppose Parliament passes one law, and if I interpret in my own way, then where is the authority of the law? This is the idea. If you want to give some idea of your own, give it separately. Why do you take Bhagavad-gītā and distort it? This is not gentlemanly, this. We are presenting, therefore, Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and it is being accepted. And before me so many swamis, yogis went there. They also tried to explain Bhagavad-gītā, but nobody accepted. There was... In the history there was not a single devotee of Kṛṣṇa before my going. Now there are thousands. Why? The secret is that I am presenting as it is.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That will be a great help immediately.

Mr. Rajda: That I'll do immediately. Now only... That's why I was just inquiring what concrete thing you would like to do.

Prabhupāda: Immediately kindly help me, that give at least one hundred men permanent residential permission. They are not politicians. They are not interested. They are devotee. Then I can manage this big, big establishment like Bombay, Vṛndāvana.

Mr. Rajda: Now tell me with your men written over all this(?). I will give you immediately.

Prabhupāda: Have you got that, made any list...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I called for the names, so within a short time.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Name is there. So this is the...

Indian (1): First progress thing.

Mr. Rajda: No, no, we'll do this immediately, and even if necessary, I will fight with the government. They have got to do it. Only thing is if you can give me some note, what are the hurdles...

Prabhupāda: Bring some paper. Write it. Immediately begin to do this. They are coming from very rich, respectable family. They have not come here to earn money for exploit India. They have no business to do this. I can guarantee that they will bring money from America and live here—not touch a single paisa of India. Now, suppose there are one hundred Americans, and if I am bringing ten lakhs of rupees per month, then what is the per capita?

Mr. Rajda: Per capita will show...

Girirāja: Ten thousand.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian (1): I... Yeah, complete list. That is why I asked you, "What first step you wanted to?"

Prabhupāda: Kindly help.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You were also M.P.?

Indian (1): No, I was municipal councilor.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Mr. Rajda: He was a municipal councilor here in Bombay.

Prabhupāda: Oh, the municipal councilor... (Hindi) What is that?

Devotee (3): It's Chawan's cutting from the newspaper.

Prabhupāda: Why don't you read other? Read it loudly.

Bhakti-caru: "Chief Minister lauds Krishna movement. Kṛṣṇa consciousness was the essence of every faith and belonged to the world, Maharastra Chief Minister Mr. M. P. Chawan said at the Third International Hare Krishna Festival at the Cross Maidan in Bombay on Wednesday. Mr. Chawan lauded the work done by Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, Founder-Acharya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. He said that Swami was responsible for popularizing Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world. Speaking after the chief minister, Swami Prabhupāda emphasized the need for scientific understanding of the Bhagavad-gītā to solve the problems confronting humanity. 'When human society is without dharma,' he said, 'it becomes animal society.' The festival, scheduled to end on Tuesday, has been extended another five days."

Prabhupāda: So his wife also...

Mr. Rajda: But now, poor fellow, he's also going. That is his fate.

Prabhupāda: That's all. This is political struggle. It doesn't matter. A man is what he is. That's all. And to come to this field of activities, one has to become free from all designation. "I am the chief minister" or this or that, that is designation. So I have to give up.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: How many minutes? They have been detaining few minutes. Just bring immediately. You cannot detain all these important men. They have got other business.

Mr. Rajda: No, there is no other thing. Only thing, the roads are functioning, Bombay, and I have to visit them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "To Ratansingh Rajda, Member of Parliament, Bombay. Dear Sri Rajda, We thank you very much for visiting us at Hare Krishna Land and for sympathetically hearing our divine master Śrīla Prabhupāda. His Divine Grace mentioned several difficulties which are impeding his great work, and you have been kind enough to promise to remove these obstacles. 1) Our men are regularly being asked to leave India. How can we manage such important projects when our men are forced to leave? Every year we have to send so many men away from India and then again we have to bring them back. For every man who comes and goes like this, we have to spend Rs. 10,000, and in this way we are wasting not less than Rs. five to six lakhs each year. Our men should be given permanent residence in India. The United States Government granted Śrīla Prabhupāda a permanent residency visa so that he could fulfill his mission in the USA. Similarly, Śrīla Prabhupāda's foreign disciples should be given permanent residency in India. Śrīla Prabhupāda requires at least one hundred men to remain in India, and he is prepared to bring Rs. ten lakhs, foreign exchange, per month just to maintain them. They will not have to seek employment, they are not interested in politics, and they will not touch one paisa locally for their maintenance. Rather, they will bring money. Therefore we request that the government of India should grant permission for at least one hundred of our men. 2) Locally we are being troubled by the municipal corporation. The local councilor is trying to take over ten feet..." (break)

Mr. Rajda: ...evening. And we shall see what is in the meeting. And I am meeting the commissioner also on Tuesday. So...

Prabhupāda: Note it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll do that.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm putting in an envelope.

Prabhupāda: Bring. I want that at least at the weekend respectable gentlemen come here, live here, try to understand the philosophy, and if possible render some service. That's all. We have got now nice building. Every room is air conditioned. Not that you have to go to the jungle. (laughs)

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: "Like father, like son." You should be. Gaurāṅgera bhakta..., jane. Everyone. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). He asked everyone, "Just become guru." Follow His instruction. You become guru. Āmāra ājñāya. Don't manufacture ideas. Āmāra ājñāya. "What I say, you do. You become a guru." Where is the difficulty? "And what is Your ājñā?" Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Bas. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. You simply repeat. That's all. You become guru. To become a guru is not difficult job. Follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu and speak what Kṛṣṇa has said. Bas. You become guru.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We live in Bombay 54. This man lives in Bombay 52.

Prabhupāda: So it is somewhere near.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It must be pretty near.

Girirāja: I think, Bandara(?).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: First rows(?).

Girirāja: Bandara or Khar(?).

Prabhupāda: So contact him. If he's sincere, let him cooperate with us. We'll make everything nice. And if they want to eat hog's flesh and wine, at the same time become harijana, (laughs) that is not possible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So there's certain stipulations to our taking responsibility for the one hundred million harijanas.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We can take them. Why one hundred million? Whole universe we can take. It is Kṛṣṇa ... Method is simple: you have to follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu and speak Bhagavad-gītā. Bas. Where is the difficulty? Why one hundred million? All, whole universe we can take, provided they are prepared. Our business is not difficult. What Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said we have to execute and speak Bhagavad-gītā. Bas. What I am doing? These two things are. Not at all. But these rascal will not take. They will manufacture their own way of life. That is the... That is dog's obstinacy. Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva says, "Don't become hog and dog here." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujām. The difficulty is that you can preach nice thing, but they will not accept.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This is due to Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. I remember Prabhupāda saying that if we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, rain will fall.

Prabhupāda: Yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14).

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And I also made about five devotees in Manipur. I was thinking of bringing in Bombay to get trained up so that I can take in south of Manipur.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But I decided not to take them at this time because I am coming back in September. About that time I am going. Before I gave them what to do and...

Prabhupāda: They are coming or not?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In Bombay? Yeah, they will come.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When will they come?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In September.

Prabhupāda: No, no, why not earlier?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I didn't want to bring them earlier because...

Prabhupāda: All right. That is all right.

Conversations -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's another article in here about the Bhaktivedanta Institute. Have you seen it?

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It appears just below this article. "ISKCON Branch in City from October, by a staff reporter. A branch of the Bhaktivedanta Institute, the center for advanced learning and research of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, ISKCON, based in Washington, D.C., is scheduled to be opened in October at Hare Krishna Land in Juhu. This was stated by Dr. Thoudam Dāmodara Singh in Bombay on Tuesday. Dr. Singh, who is in charge of the arrangements for the opening, told a press conference that the Institute presents in a modern format the higher sciences of the ancient Vedantic literatures. In Bombay, Dr. Singh said, the Institute will publish scientific articles, monographs, and the journal 'Sa-vijñānam, Scientific Knowledge,' regularly." That's the whole article. Again Your Divine Grace's name is not mentioned. Of course, it says, "Bhaktivedanta Institute," but still, it's not... Yeah, it was a very good opportunity that we could present our program, but somehow it... Where did they get these figures of "three years"and "ten years"? I mean, how could they have just concocted "three years" and "ten years" unless you told them?

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: I...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But how did they get these figures? How does someone manufacture that we will spend seventy crores in three years? (pause) It seems like they have tricked you. You must have made a statement, and they...

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: They fabricated. That's the whole thing.

Prabhupāda: How they can fabricate in their own way? From... (pause) Rather, they have criticized that "This fantastic thing, it is going to be like Aurobindo's city, list of fifty thousand, 404 acres." They are not taking it very seriously. Otherwise why he has remarked? Indirectly he has said, "This man is speaking like lunatic." They are not taking very seriously. That very remark shows that "It is going to be meet the same fate." So many fantastic ideas.

Conversations -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So how you came in front?

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: Well, Patita, he was explaining about the project we were doing in Bombay. He was setting it up and working on it.

Prabhupāda: But his not there. Your name is there. Your photograph.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even on the project in Bombay your name is given there, but Prabhupāda's name is not given there. Now, why should your name become prominent in regards to the Bombay project? Now, you said he was describing what we were doing in Bombay, so therefore he wanted to meet you. So why should he want to...? If anybody describes about this Bombay project, they should want to meet Prabhupāda. (pause) There's nothing objectionable in this report, but they're not going to use this report.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's nothing objectionable in here, but it should be understood...

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is not... It is written, "The Founder-Ācārya," written clearly.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, clearly.

Prabhupāda: But how is that, they have avoided everything else? "Surabhī Swami is doing. It is his city." They're asking, "his city." And where is such incidence that any project, without mentioning the project makers, the architect's name... Where is that incidence, that "Here is the architect, architect, architect"? Nobody finds.

Conversations -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You look at any project in Bombay that's coming up, or anywhere in India. They'll always mention who is going to use the building or who is..., who paid for it. Hardly ever... If anything, the architect's name is mentioned in one line, "designed by so and so." But the architect never holds the press conference. That's another... I mean, I never heard of an architect holding a press conference. Neither I have heard the architect doing so many of the other things which the architect is doing. That, I think, is the essential thing. Whenever Bhavānanda Mahārāja...

Prabhupāda: Anyway, you form immediately joint committee. You cannot do independently. That is not possible. Whatever is done is done. Now, henceforward, you should be guarded. You, you published that article?

Patita-pāvana: What is that?

Prabhupāda: The Times of India?

Patita-pāvana: Pardon me, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: You published that article?

Patita-pāvana: The types?

Prabhupāda: Times of India.

Patita-pāvana: This?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with Patita-pavana -- April 20, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now, how that branches are spread, how there are different places and seas and oceans in every same place.

Patita-pāvana: Should we bring them here, to Bombay?

Prabhupāda: Where it will be possible. Where it is, you propose.

Patita-pāvana: I was thinking that at the time of the opening of the temple they come here, or if that's too crowded, they could come to Māyāpur some time, but if you'd like them to come now, I can...

Prabhupāda: Māyāpur is now Maidan. Māyāpur and here, what is the difference?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, here is better. Everyone can come to Bombay much easier. And if you wait until the opening, there's too many other things.

Patita-pāvana: You're right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now is very peaceful for them.

Patita-pāvana: Yes, Mahārāja. So could we fly them here? Could we fly them here?

Prabhupāda: Why not?

Patita-pāvana: Okay. There's two especially, Dr. Arkasomayaji and Agnihotram Rāmānuja Tattvācārya. Spiritually, from what you've taught me, I can understand they have some limitations. Their spiritual understanding is not as high as the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava...

Prabhupāda: There is no question of spiritual understanding.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is quite good.

Mr. Dwivedi: The second building which I showed to you already, this building (showing Prabhupāda papers), we have a big hall.

Prabhupāda: There we can have.

Mr. Dwivedi: The first hall is a big hall itself. The first hall is a big hall itself.

Prabhupāda: So how do you go from Bombay to Jhansi? By train.

Mr. Dwivedi: Yes, Bombay to Jhansi by train. Or it could be this way: Bombay to Gwalior by plane and then by bus or car.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How long it takes from Gwalior to there by car?

Mr. Dwivedi: About three hours or two hours and half, something like that. Seventy-five miles.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What kind of road is it?

Mr. Dwivedi: Pardon?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What kind of road?

Mr. Dwivedi: Road?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What kind of road? Good road?

Mr. Dwivedi: Car road.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Car road.

Mr. Dwivedi: Yes, throughout.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Winding? No.

Mr. Dwivedi: No. That, little winding.

Prabhupāda: So why not go by train to Jhansi?

Mr. Dwivedi: The same thing. It's equidistant from Gwalior and Jhansi. If you... Jhansi... I say Gwalior because there is plane service. There is no plane service to Jhansi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then from Jhansi to here, how many...?

Mr. Dwivedi: Same, seventy-five miles. As from Gwalior, so from Jhansi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Two and a half, three hours.

Prabhupāda: Seventy-five miles, it is two hours. That's all.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Dwivedi: Just the same. Just the same. Gwalior will be slightly convenient in this way that you get down at Gwalior, then I have my own house at Gwalior, so at our own house we have little rest, take our food and then start. The plane also reaches there from Bombay, say, about 12:30 or so.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A direct flight between here and Gwalior? Direct?

Indian man: No, that is via Indore...

Mr. Dwivedi: Indore, Bhopal, Gwalior. That's it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's not good. Better to go by train, Prabhupāda.

Mr. Dwivedi: If you go by train...

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Mr. Dwivedi: ...the train reaches about one o'clock roundabout.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How many hours from Bombay by train?

Mr. Dwivedi: Twenty-four hours. We start here... No, it's twenty-two hours.

Prabhupāda: There are so many trains, Bombay to Jhan...

Mr. Dwivedi: No, the fastest train is Punjab Mail, train to Jhansi. Punjab Mail. It starts quarter past four and reaches Gwalior about, oh, just 1:30 or so.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Afternoon.

Mr. Dwivedi: Afternoon, the next day.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then we could... It reaches Gwalior.

Mr. Dwivedi: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then we could get down at your house...

Mr. Dwivedi: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...and wait till it cools down. Better to travel, say, about four o'clock. By then the sun is going down. It's cooler.

Prabhupāda: Or we can start in the morning.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I think we should arrange like that. Let us arrange. So where you are staying now?

Mr. Dwivedi: I am staying at Narancha(?). We have our own flat on this paper route(?), Abhesivasana's flat here in Bombay.

Prabhupāda: I see. If you like, you can stay here also.

Mr. Dwivedi: No, I have got because... I come here. I have to look after. We are running that paper, Rural India. It's again forty-years-old paper, and I shall be only too happy if Your Holiness will give it just a little new direction.

Prabhupāda: Yes...

Mr. Dwivedi: We are selling a few copies to America, to France, to England also.

Prabhupāda: So... No, if you so desire, you can stay here. We have got accommodation, fooding, everything.

Mr. Dwivedi: (Hindi) Because I have to do work in the night.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How many days you are intending to stay now in Bombay?

Mr. Dwivedi: I am leaving on the 25th night. Then, on... I am reaching there 26th night. On the 27th I have to attend the marriage of my younger brother's son. That will take about two days, to 27th and 28th. And then, then, till about the 3rd I am busy in the sense that our president of Abhesivasana(?), he expired recently. So he left two sons. They... They just need my little guidances in such matters, the young boys. Not young. Pretty old, but yet, because they, being the sons of a yajnirdatta(?), did not much look up to the work, now suddenly the responsibility has fallen over their heads. So... But after the 3rd or 4th, I am free.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's good, gives a little time for preparing.

Mr. Dwivedi: The weather at our headquarters is always pleasant. Summer, very pleasant. You'll gain in weight.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Mr. Dwivedi: And strange enough, you gain in color also in summer.

Prabhupāda: Attractive.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Said the right thing.

Mr. Dwivedi: Strange enough. And strange enough, this paper that we produce there, the worms do not eat it. And I shall be able to show you some of our record, registered, thirty, forty years old, registered, as good as they were then.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How is the drinking water?

Mr. Dwivedi: Fine. Very fine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You have well, deep well.

Mr. Dwivedi: Yes, we have got deep wells. And the water of our wells, particularly of the college well, is the best in the area.

Prabhupāda: So let us arrange like that. So... So let us arrange. Let us go there. If it is cooperation available, we take immediately. There is no doubt. Because we want to organize every village. Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma. (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126) That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Not only your vill...

Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is very insignificant thing, personal. And it is said, personal, if you keep long hair, it will look... But it has been made here, it is said that "People will think like that, that he has become more beautiful." The psychology. Lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dharaṇam. They rejected all other things. Simply they'll think that "If I keep long hair, I'll be very beautiful." This psychological study is there. And five thousand years before, prediction. How much authoritative the book is, just imagine. Is it not fact? Vyāsadeva's authority, try to... How perfectly authorized he is. They're stating psychological effect of people five thousand years ahead. Not only that, there are many descriptions what will be the name two thousand, three thousand years... Generally said, "This name will be like this. This name will be like this. Your son, grandson, great-grandson, what will be their names, this is..." So why shall we not believe just that statement of planetary system? If they are so correct... Planetary system is already there, but they are foretelling what in future, it will happen. That is my conviction. Therefore I do not believe anyone except Bhāgavata, Bhagavad-gītā. That is my science. They speculate. I don't believe it. Why shall I...? And in the beginning Vyāsadeva said, kim anyaiḥ śāstraiḥ: "Take only Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as the book of knowledge. Bas. You need not read any other." Nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalam idam: (SB 1.1.3) "This is essence of all Vedic knowledge." (pause) There are so many gentlemen here. They want to give their property, house, outside Bombay, to this institution.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Bhopal is the capital.

Mr. Dwivedi: Bhopal is the capital.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We had a big function in Bhopal, my party, for about ten days a few years ago.

Mr. Dwivedi: And then I also desire, as Your Holiness is going, that press should be briefed right from Bombay. Why should I wait from Gwalior... Because I expect some people a few hundred miles off from Gwalior will also be traveling up to meet Your Holiness. So if they know beforehand in papers of Bombay it is better. Therefore I have requested my friend, Mr. Goswami, to give me two or three blocks. If it comes out that way, for our purposes also, he'll need it, and here also I shall try to make correspondence to one or two papers there, that they should ready to send their representatives over there, that way.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Supposing that Mr. Jetthi is not available, do you have some second choice?

Mr. Dwivedi: Then my second choice will be on Mr. Nanda. Mr. Nanda also knows me.

Prabhupāda: Nanda knows me very well. Nanda...

Mr. Dwivedi: He also knows me, and he wanted to start a yogāśrama over there but for himself, and he had a mind.

Prabhupāda: I don't think... If Jetthi does not come, then don't attend from any other.

Mr. Dwivedi: And Jetthi will be best, definitely.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Kārttikeya: Mr. Jetthi's coming here in Bombay lst of May or 2nd of May to Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Kārttikeya: Dayanand(?) Jetthi.

Mr. Dwivedi: But I... I'll have a phone call with him today, and I'll ask him where he may stay. Of course, I would like to meet him.

Prabhupāda: You can also inform him that we are going to organize the village organization according to Gandhi's program.

Mr. Dwivedi: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is our proposal.

Mr. Dwivedi: He will help me.

Prabhupāda: With spiritual idea.

Mr. Dwivedi: Mr. Jetthi, he will also help me with this program.

Prabhupāda: Gandhi's program plus spiritual. Gandhi's program...

Mr. Dwivedi: Yes.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Winding?

Mr. Dwivedi: Not very winding. There are two roads. There are two roads. There is is one road which is little winding. There is another road, but we have to travel eighteen miles more. Not winding, Agra-Bombay road. So there is a straight Agra-Bombay road also. But we have to take an extra eighteen miles more drive.

Kārttikeya: Eighty?

Mr. Dwivedi: Eighteen. One-eight.

Prabhupāda: So that is not...

Mr. Dwivedi: So we can take either. And even this is not so very zig-zaggy and we are... No, not much. Not much.

Prabhupāda: But anyway, we are going to hold session on Sunday.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right.

Prabhupāda: Then? What is the problem?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, my point is that you're going to have to travel Sunday morning to get there, and then hold a function Sunday evening, so whether that's going to be tiring? That's all I'm bringing out.

Prabhupāda: The morning, how many hours?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Travel...

Mr. Dwivedi: Three hours.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Three hours.

Prabhupāda: And that's all right.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Our Indian touring means...

Kārttikeya: River and temple.

Prabhupāda: River and temple. That's all. All our holy places are on the bank of the Ganges, Yamunā, temple.

Kārttikeya: Except Bombay. Bombay has no river.

Prabhupāda: Bombay is big river, this... (laughter)

Mr. Dwivedi: Has got father of rivers.

Prabhupāda: And the temple is there, Umā devī.

Kārttikeya: Father of river is Himalaya.

Mr. Dwivedi: Give any name you like. As friend you may call.

Kārttikeya: Father it is not, sāgara.

Mr. Dwivedi: So there is this Kedara Sak..., Tenkara(?) temple. So many sādhus come there just to take various kinds of herbs and (indistinct) and they go away. They stay for the night. Ten, fifteen days' halt they make. And there is this beautiful cave-cut temple where throughout the year there is the śiva-liṅga and on it throughout the year water flows.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Morning Talk -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That goes for all over the world.

Prabhupāda: Don't go to the city. That is my determination. The hellish city. In city nobody has got the opportunity for living in such comfortable place. It is all Kṛṣṇa's mercy that we have got. Otherwise if you go to the Bombay city, even here, these pigeon holes, three small rooms... It is not expected that everyone will be able to live in such palatial building. That is not possible. Even they have no bathroom in Bombay. In the room, in the corner, there is a tap, and you have to go to the public well, latrine. This is the system. So whole family will take advantage of the corner tap and then have to go to public latrine. There is no bathroom.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No sewer system?

Prabhupāda: No, sewer system. (break) ...each toilet for fifty men. They are in line in the same building. One after another you get chance. You have got dysentery, then it is... Then you...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You have to take a bucket.

Prabhupāda: So nasty. You come here. (break) Vivekananda, so on, so on, so on, so on... If I had been in political power, I would have killed.

Conversation with Vedic Astronomer -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Bon Mahārāja did not believe. No... Nobody ever thought of it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You are the only representative, the lone representative of religion left on this planet, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So what to do? He has wasted so much money. He's not the proper man.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Why not let us try to find out some man locally here in Bombay?

Prabhupāda: Very difficult. You can try.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean, there's just as good a chance he'll find him here as anywhere else. And it won't cost anything.

Prabhupāda: "Astronomer knowing the planetary system," you can advertise. "Expert astronomer who knows the planetary systems as described..."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "...in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam."

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, we can advertise. Instead of having somebody going all over India.

Prabhupāda: He assured that he has found out an expert. The other man did not come because he does not know.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Patita said that these were the two top men in all of India, guaranteed.

Prabhupāda: Let us see what does he do. (end)

Morning Conversation -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It doesn't matter.

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: No, he is...

Prabhupāda: Give him nice, comfortable room.

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: Nice room. That we have arranged. And these people from Germany, they will stay two days in Bombay.

Prabhupāda: No, anyone, newcomer, give him very nice place, nice food. Food and shelter is the first consideration.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (aside:) We got to arrange for food for him.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? I told you that we have improved the quality of the composing. So this is a new style of composing. It is about... They have a new alphabet, cleaner. They are using better art paper. And I have shown it to our production manager. He also says the reproduction of it would be much better. I have improved the quality of art paper on which they are doing the art proofs. So I just got this one made, and I wanted to show it to you. We are experimenting with two types of composing. Now, this takes in more words, but what we will do at the time of printing, we will shoot it and it will become small, like the regular book, and this way we can get in more space. And this...

Prabhupāda: How many lines?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is about... Three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen, twenty, twenty, twenty... Thirty-three. But it's also little broader. It's a little broader than the others, thirty-three lines.

Page Title:Bombay (Conversations 1977 Jan - Apr)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:23 of Dec, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=160, Let=0
No. of Quotes:160