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Body and soul (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: Well, I suppose not. You could say there is no difference because the food is basically the same materially. It's just a question of the style.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now you take... Style may be different. That's all right. Besides that, to maintain your body and soul together, you require eating, you require sleeping, you require mating, you require defense. We don't say that you don't do this. Kṛṣṇa was... Arjuna was defending. Rather, he wanted to be nonviolent. "Oh, what is the use of fighting?" Kṛṣṇa said, "No. It is required. You should." So where is the difference? There is no difference. Simply we are adjusting things so that you may become happy. Any intelligent man will take it. We are not prohibiting, but we are adjusting. So there is no difficulty. Simply intelligent persons like you should try to understand and take it and administer because your country is wanting this.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:
Prabhupāda: One must be sadācāra. This is the beginning of sadācāra, to rise early in the morning, to cleanse, then chant, or chant the Vedic mantras or, simplified as in the present age, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, mahā-mantra. This is the beginning of sadācāra. So sadācāra means to become freed from sinful reaction. Unless one follows the regulative principles he cannot be freed. And unless one is fully freed from sinful reaction he cannot understand what is God. Those who are not in sadācāra, regulative principles, for them... Just like animals, they are not expected to follow any... Of course, by nature they follow regulative principles. Still, but human being, having advanced consciousness, so instead of using it properly, they misuse the advanced consciousness and thus they become lower than animals. The animals, for want of advanced consciousness, cannot follow any regulative principles. But by nature they have got some regulative principle. A human being, advanced consciousness, instead of using it for advance in spiritual life they use it for sense gratification and thus they become lower than the animals. So as soon as one becomes irregulated, without any sadācāra, then he doesn't care for any sinful activities for maintaining his body and soul together. He doesn't mind. Their philosophy is, what is called? "Existence is the first law of nature," or something like...

Guest (1): Self-preservation. Prabhupāda: Self-preservation. So self-preservation... They do not know what is self-preservation. That is another ignorance. They consider this body as the self. Their self-preservation means to keep this body. And that is also not possible. If you do not follow regulative principles, it is not possible to keep your body in good condition. That is also not possible.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discussion with Indians -- January 18, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is your interpretation.

Guest (3): That is exactly what...

Prabhupāda: No, you say. Anyone who... Anyone... Whatever he says, he thinks like that, exact. That is another thing. But we know that Kṛṣṇa had no difference between His body and soul. He is absolute. Now, you are talking from the point of view that Kṛṣṇa's body and Kṛṣṇa's soul is different.

Guest (3): Ah, no... In every body...

Prabhupāda: That is not the fact. That is not the fact.

Discussion with Indians -- January 18, 1971, Allahabad:

Guest (3): If you say, "This is not the body..."

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. We are to speak on the Bhagavad-gītā. We are talking of Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says that mām ekam. He never says that "to My soul."

Guest (3): No. He says, "I am one."

Prabhupāda: Therefore He is one, both body and soul, one. That is one.

Guest (1): Swamiji, material aspect in your understanding, they are one?

Prabhupāda: Therefore He is nonmaterial. Therefore He has spoken... No, no, if you compare with Him ordinary man, then at once you become a mūḍha. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā. No, you say... This is the saying of Bhagavad-gītā. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā manuṣīṁ tanum āśritaḥ (BG 9.11). (Hindi) "Because I have taken this human form of life, the rascals, they think I am a human being." It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Discussion with Indians -- January 18, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: That's all... First of all we have...

Guest (5): If you have potency to rise and go higher and higher...

Prabhupāda: You are not on the ātmā stage; I am not in the ātmā stage. You are in the bodily stage.

Guest (5): Both, body and soul, together...

Prabhupāda: Then if you are in the ātmā stage, then you have no argument with me. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18).

Guest (5): But argument, you have admitted that...

Prabhupāda: No, there is no argument. That will stop. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54).

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And that has been commented by Dr. Rādhākrishnan. When Kṛṣṇa says that man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65), he says that "It is not to the Kṛṣṇa person, but what is within Him. Within Him." That means he is under the theory that Kṛṣṇa's body is māyā. So you haven't got to surrender to the body of Kṛṣṇa. But this fool does not know that there is no such distinction in Kṛṣṇa.

Mr. Sar: Avyaktaṁ vyaktim āpannam manyante mām...

Prabhupāda: Ah! No, Kṛṣṇa has no such distinction as body and soul. Prakṛtiṁ svām adhiṣṭhāya. He comes in His own, original body. Sambhavāmi yuge... Prakṛtiṁ svām. Not this prakṛti. Svām, the spiritual body. That they do not take.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: No, remains means in the same way. Just like if I leave this room and it remains here, in a few years time it will be destroyed. Similarly, if you leave this body, in a few hours... It is a question of hours and years. (German) (break)

Vedavyāsa: ...saying that this body is, the soul is eminent.

Prabhupāda: The soul is different from the body.

Vedavyāsa: Yes, but at the same time, he says there must be a very intimate connection of, actually a oneness of body and soul. That is what is now.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Dr. P. J. Saher: As long as we are alive.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is not oneness. Just like this room is important so long I am living. Otherwise it has no importance. (German) (break) ...soul is gone from the body, even the body is very dear, I throw it away. (German)

Vedavyāsa: He doesn't want to separate.

Prabhupāda: But you must separate. (laughter) As soon as your death comes, your body will be kicked out by your relatives.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No. Spiritual thing does not depend on anything material.

Jesuit: The sum product that the full prayer is certainly a spiritual experience created by a material use of lips and things like that, it makes a noise.

Prabhupāda: No, it is not material creation. Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is not material creation. It is from the spiritual world.

Jesuit: Oh, I see that, but I mean if you've spoken words... All I'm trying to say is that it's body and soul together praying.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Body and soul different.

Jesuit: Oh, of course, yes.

Prabhupāda: Body and soul different.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...advises Arjuna that "I am... The body and the soul different."

Dr. John Mize: The body and soul are different, yes. So it seems to me too.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. That is the beginning of spiritual education. People do not understand. I have seen many European big, big professors. They do not have any clear conception that the body and the soul, different.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: That is stated in few verses, you find out this. Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya (SB 1.2.9).

Brahmānanda: In the First Canto?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya nārtho 'rthāyopakalpate. The first thing is that people become religious. Just like in your Christian religion they go to the church to get some material profit. "Oh God, give us our daily bread." This is material profit. Similarly, Hindus or Muslims, they become religious, dharma artha kāma mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90), the material activities. Those who are actually advanced... Those who are not even human beings, their philosophy is different. Those who are human beings, their dharma, religion. Then artha, economic development, and then kāma, sense gratification, and then mokṣa, liberation. These four things are taken as general activities. So Bhāgavata says your dharma... Religious principle means the ultimate goal is how to become liberated, not artha. Artha means economic development. So then question may be if you do not, if we are not economically developed then how we shall live? The Bhāgavata says that you can make economic development as far as it maintains your body and soul together. Not that making whole life economic development and real purpose of life forget. This is foolishness. So dharma, artha. Dharma means, religious advancement means how to get out of this material condition. Not that I go to temple and chant, "God, give me millions of dollars, and this, and that." This is not possible. It is good that one has gone to God to ask some help, that much credit is there.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: If I come at four-thirty, you are there.

Prabhupāda: No. At that time, I shall not be able to... You can come at five. Because after waking up I prepare. Then at five I begin. Let us meet. And Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). So one has to become dhīra. If one remains adhīra, then he'll never be able to understand the distinction between body and soul.

Dr. Patel: Dhīra means buddhi.

Prabhupāda: Dhīra means sober. Sober, yes. Just like high-court judge. He judges everything very... (break) ...then he gives his judgment.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Harikeśa: I think a thesis, it would be described in the dictionary as a proposition.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Who can give proposition unless one is human being? The dog cannot give proposition. The animal cannot give proposition. So who is giving this proposition throughout the Western world, that within this body there is the real person? Who understands this? Therefore they're all animals. What is the value of their so-called philosophy? What do you think? Yasyātmā buddhiḥ kunāpe tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). If he's in the bodily concept of life, then he remains animal. What is the value of his thesis? Now here is the thesis. Now antithesis is also there. Actually we are trying to adjust. Only society. The thesis is the soul. The antithesis is the body. And synthesis is how to adjust the body and soul so that the soul be benefited from this entanglement.

Harikeśa: That's the varṇāśrama system?

Prabhupāda: That is different thing only.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 12, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ...I am your friend, I am God, so you sleep, I shall do everything. In Russia like that. When Arjuna refused to fight He chastised him like anything. What is the anārya-juṣṭam? He's just like non-Aryans, talking foolish. People should clearly understand that we don't encourage laziness. We never encourage. According to your capacity, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), you must work. Śarīra yātrāpi te na prasiddhyed akarmaṇaḥ, Kṛṣṇa says, "By not working, even if you cannot put on your body and soul together." Kṛṣṇa says like that.

Dayānanda: Isn't laziness one of the demonic qualities, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: It is less than demonic. Demonic qualities, they have some activity and laziness is ignorance, darkness. Therefore too much sleeping is very, very bad. That is another part of laziness. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **, one has to conquer over this sleeping and laziness. Eating, nidrā, ahāra, vihāra, sense gratification, vihāra means sense gratification. One has to minimize these things up to the point of nil, that is perfect. When there is no more sleeping, no more eating, no more mating, and no more fearing, that is perfection of spiritual life. And that is not possible, but as much as possible. (break) ...they cannot sleep more that the culture (?) is very great gain, profit.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: ...simply man looks after the animals, that he's strong and happy, they'll get food grains, the cooperation, and both of them happy. But they're not looking to that. They are trying to sell the grains and get more money, and purchase wine and enjoy. And when the animal will be unable to work, sell him to the slaughterhouse and get money. And for these sinful activities, they are suffering.

Hari-śauri: Their idea is just to exploit.

Prabhupāda: Hah, yes. Everyone is trying to get more, and nature's order is that you take only to maintain your body and soul together. That's all. If you take more, then you are thief, you'll be punished by the laws of nature. This is going on. Laws of nature are so fine that by material activities you'll never be satisfied, and at the time of death, he'll lament that "I could not satisfy my desires. Let me take..." "All right, take another body. Satisfy." This is nature's punishment. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). Simple things. We desire, and nature will give you another body. māyā-yantrārūḍhāni. He'll give you, "Ride on this car, you wanted, on this body." And this... This is creation of māyā. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe... (BG 18.61). Kṛṣṇa is there, orders māyā, "He wants to enjoy life. Give him this body." "Come on, here is a hog's body, eat nicely, stool. Come on." He did not like to eat prasādam. He wanted something rubbish. "All right, come here. Take this stool." These things are going automatically. The same way, as you infect some disease, immediately the disease is there. You haven't got to manufacture diseases. Because you have infected yourself with the disease germ, "Take this disease." Therefore it is warned, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11), "Don't desire anything except Kṛṣṇa's service." Then you are immune. Otherwise you have to take birth. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they take the Absolute Truth void, so they have no good desires, again they come to material desires.

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: Our Vedic advice is that make life very simple. You must have some means of livelihood. Keep your body and soul together. So according to quality, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), there must be division and then simple life. The real aim is tam abhyarcya, how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Everyone is.... Brāhmaṇa is guiding, kṣatriya is ruling, and vaiśya is producing food, and śūdra, they have no brain; they are helping. In this way the society is very peaceful, and everyone is advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is India's civilization. Now, due to this association of the rākṣasas... Even up to Mohammedan time this civilization was being continued. Mohammedan did not touch the Indian culture. Sometimes by, what is called, fanaticism, there was fight. Not like this. The Arjuna.... Aurangzeb began this. Otherwise, from, what is called, the first emperor? Akbar. Akbar, Jahanghri, then Shajahan, there was no trouble. They did not touch. Even there was some marriage connection. They want to remain as kṣatriya king, that's all. The other things were not interfered. So instead of a Hindu kṣatriya, the Musselman kṣatriya. People were satisfied: "A kṣatriya... We have to work. Somebody must be king." So in this way the Indian people accepted the Britishers. "All right, you remain king. Don't interfere." But later on, to exploit the whole country, they began to plan.
Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Say, for example, one who is engaged simply in preaching.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: One who is engaged simply in preaching.

Prabhupāda: He's serving Kṛṣṇa. He's not material necessities.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So Kṛṣṇa is supplying all facility at least to maintain body and soul together.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. I went to your country without any money. Now Kṛṣṇa has given. I went with forty rupees; now I have forty crores. Who has done this business? So if you serve Kṛṣṇa, so Kṛṣṇa will supply everything, whatever you need, require. He doesn't require to ask for it.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The question then is, is a devotee required to work very hard for material necessities?

Prabhupāda: Yes. He has to work sincerely to serve Kṛṣṇa. Then everything is there.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No. Our aim is not to create sick people. That is not our aim.

Dr. Wolfe: Swimming, walking, is still important I think.

Prabhupāda: No, we do not say. Neither.

Dr. Wolfe: I miss it in the Movement. I think it should not be made a sport, but it should be made, perhaps, a physical must under control.

Prabhupāda: No, if you eat more, then you require more exercise to digest unnecessary loading, but if you eat simply, just to keep our body and soul together, you don't require exercise.

Dr. Wolfe: Well...

Prabhupāda: Little movement is going on, we are walking. But not this severe type of exercise as surfers and fighting with the sea waves for four hours, five hours, ten hours. (devotees laugh)

Dr. Wolfe: But Śrīla Prabhupāda, a kṣatriya has to be strong.

Prabhupāda: That is a.... Kṣatriya is.... Generally...

Dr. Wolfe: And kṣatriyas have to be there.

Prabhupāda: This is especially meant for the brāhmaṇas, intelligent.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: ...from the petr..., of the motor car. The motor car without petrol cannot work. Similarly, the driver without food cannot work. But the food of the driver and the power of the motor car different.

Bali-mardana: The needs of the body and soul are different.

Prabhupāda: So we are supplying the needs of the soul, and they are supplying the needs of the motor car. Therefore they find difference. They are thinking, "They are not supplying petrol to this man for eating." That is the difference. They are crying, "Oh, they are not giving petrol for eating to the driver."

Devotee: Actually we are giving all those things as well.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are supplying everything, driver's food and the car's power. But they see that, "Why they are wasting time giving food to the driver?" They think that petrol is the food of the driver as well as the car. They do not know that the food of the driver is different from the petrol for the car. Try to understand this analogy.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: They, in the papers report that, that we spend very lavishly for the Deities, but for ourselves we eat only very simply.

Prabhupāda: So is it not credit? We spend for God. We are servant of God. We want to see God gorgeously situated, and for us we have no comforts, we don't care for any comfort. We simply spend minimum just to keep the body and soul together, that's all. This is our principle. We don't spend a farthing for our sense gratification. This should be noted down if some case is there, this should be presented. We don't go to restaurant, we don't go to cinema, we don't spend lavishly for dress or something else, no. Neither for furniture (laughter). Eh? If you sit down in a, a pad is that faulty?

Hari-śauri: Then when they go to any of our temples, they're amazed because we don't...

Prabhupāda: We sit down, don't use any chair, any couches, unnecessarily, carpet. What expenditure? We have no expenditure for personal self. And still you are faulty? What can be done? We don't purchase any cosmetic, this clay tilaka is sufficient. We don't apply any pomade or cosmetic or ointment. Either for our girls or ourselves. We don't do that, we live very simply. After 15 days we shave, there is no use of cutting or decorating. Note down all these things. We have no doctor's bill even.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Can you make one cāpāṭi?

Hari-śauri: I should make it, or Pālikā or...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Pālikā. (break) ...business, that requires so many other things. But if you take to agriculture you can do it immediately. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. That... We are going to do that. Kṛṣi... This is beginning, family life, maintenance, body and soul together. This is the beginning. Business is there when there is excess. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). First of all you take care of the cows and engage yourself in agricultural products. Then when there is excess production, you trade, get some money for other purposes. But you... Agriculture means you work for producing food. That is wanted. Why immediately go to trade? Trade is required when there is excess product. Everything is there. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. And the kṛṣi you can produce independently. You simply work. You have got your hands and legs. You till the ground and throw some seed, and it will come. One kilo seeds, you'll get one hundred mounds. Then, when the product is excess, you trade. Everything is there. If you produce food grain, you'll eat nicely and you'll be strong. You'll be able to work more. Our point is take Kṛṣṇa's instruction. Everything will be perfect. Not that Kṛṣṇa is advising immediately sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). For that stage you are not prepared. That I know. But in your present stage what you'll do, that is perfect.

Evening Darsana -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Guest (2): Today somebody is a brāhmaṇa, tomorrow's he's kṣatriya, and day after tomorrow he's something else.

Prabhupāda: Udaraṁ bharatā. Dakṣyaṁ udaraṁ bhāratā. Bas, Kali-yuga. Somehow or other, if you can fill up your bellies, then you are very expert. That is going on. If you can maintain your family nicely, then you are dakṣya. Dakṣyaṁ udaraṁ bhāratā. These symptoms are there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Because the Kali-yuga, it is so condemned that it will be difficult to maintain one's body and soul together, that udaraṁ bharita is very expert. He's maintaining. (laughs) Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā (SB 1.1.10). All unfortunate, they have no certainty. In Western countries they have voluntarily given up regulative life, the hippies. No certainty where he shall eat, where he shall lie down. Voluntarily. Coming of very nice family. In Europe, America.... Especially in America there is no question of becoming poor. Everyone has got sufficient means. But still, voluntarily they have accepted this poverty. Voluntarily. A father is rich man. Grandfather is rich man. And besides that, the government maintains. If you have no engagement, the government will give you at least $25 per week. Is it not?

Satsvarūpa: More than that.

Page Title:Body and soul (Conversations)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Serene
Created:02 of Dec, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=21, Let=0
No. of Quotes:21