Bird (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"bird" |"bird's" |"birdlike" |"birds"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1976, Mayapur:

Harikeśa: Well, instead of taking airplanes here and there, you could just...

Prabhupāda: No, no. What is the difference? If by practicing severe yogic means you fly, the birds are also flying. They are flying without airplane. Does it mean that it has become very great? There are many birds, garuḍa bird. They can fly from one planet to another. Just like small birds—they fly from one tree to another, take rest again—so they fly from this planet to another. Take rest, again another. What is the value of your airplane? You cannot go to another planet. There are birds; they catch up elephants and take it away for eating. Does it mean he has become, it has become God? There are Siddhaloka planets where the people can go without any airplane from one planet to another, Siddhaloka. They have got all yogic siddhi automatically, by birth. Just like we cannot fly, but a small bird, a small fly, from the birth it can fly. There are so many. So similarly, by birth they have got all yogic siddhis. This is called Siddhaloka. There are different varieties of planets, different varieties of perfection. Just like here also, I cannot dive into the water. A small fish can dive. I cannot fly in the sky but a small sparrow, it can go from here, here, immediately. Does it mean he is very advanced in yogic power because he can fly? You are proposing that. Nothing is any big achievement. The big achievement is how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is wanted. Not these things. These things.... You cannot do; I can do. I cannot do; he can do. What is the greatness?

Harikeśa: It seems harder to control the tongue than to fly.

Prabhupāda: Fly?

Harikeśa: It takes more austerity to control one's tongue by chanting and taking prasādam.

Prabhupāda: Even that is not achievement. To control the senses, that is not very great achievement.

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1976, Mayapur:

Harikeśa: Well, instead of taking airplanes here and there, you could just...

Prabhupāda: No, no. What is the difference? If by practicing severe yogic means you fly, the birds are also flying. They are flying without airplane. Does it mean that it has become very great? There are many birds, garuḍa bird. They can fly from one planet to another. Just like small birds—they fly from one tree to another, take rest again—so they fly from this planet to another. Take rest, again another. What is the value of your airplane? You cannot go to another planet. There are birds; they catch up elephants and take it away for eating. Does it mean he has become, it has become God? There are Siddhaloka planets where the people can go without any airplane from one planet to another, Siddhaloka. They have got all yogic siddhi automatically, by birth. Just like we cannot fly, but a small bird, a small fly, from the birth it can fly. There are so many. So similarly, by birth they have got all yogic siddhis. This is called Siddhaloka. There are different varieties of planets, different varieties of perfection. Just like here also, I cannot dive into the water. A small fish can dive. I cannot fly in the sky but a small sparrow, it can go from here, here, immediately. Does it mean he is very advanced in yogic power because he can fly? You are proposing that. Nothing is any big achievement. The big achievement is how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is wanted. Not these things. These things.... You cannot do; I can do. I cannot do; he can do. What is the greatness?

Harikeśa: It seems harder to control the tongue than to fly.

Morning Walk -- January 20, 1976, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So sometimes when a devotee goes, joins Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then leaves again and goes back to the material world, its just like a pig going back to the stool.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The materialism and spiritualism is explained by Rūpa Gosvāmī. There is bird, cātaka. So they drink water when the rain falls, and otherwise they will starve. They will never accept any water from this earth.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There is actually such a bird.

Prabhupāda: A devotee will never accept materialism, even if he dies of starvation. You'll see so many still. They are sticking to this principle. There are still many saintly persons in India. They do that. They don't care for any bodily care. "Some food comes; I shall eat. Never mind." Still you'll find. They are sitting in their place and chanting or meditating without any concern for bodily necessities.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We see, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that you also have no such concern, but just to deliver the whole world you are taking on this concern.

Prabhupāda: This is for Kṛṣṇa. We are constructing the buildings and begging money or..., and..., only for this purpose: people may become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the only idea.

Morning Walk -- January 20, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Huh? Oh. They say that due to their āśīrbād?

Jayapatākā: No, he is saying that he is the counterpart, that he's got the āśīrbād.

Prabhupāda: No, āśīrbād, but what you have done for the āśīrbād. You are licking up the āśīrbād.

Child: Jaya Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Jaya. He is also. (break) Vedic conception is that the birds and beasts, they should not be driven away. Let them eat as much as it like. They must eat also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we shouldn't do that in our field?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the Vedic.

Jayapatākā: Then we won't have anything to eat.

Prabhupāda: No, you produce more.

Jayapatākā: What ha... In the... Because now this field is the only field that is ripening, so that if he doesn't scare the bird away, all the bird will come and eat his field. When all the wheat is ripening at the same time, then nobody cares. They let the birds eat. But if one man only is growing one crop at one time, then all the birds come. They will clean out and they all get...

Prabhupāda: No, therefore everyone should grow seasonal grains. Everyone should take wheat. I think the number of men is more than the number of bricks. (break) ...rooms will be finished. They are not being finished. This? (break) ...Calcutta. So landlords became very perplexed. So one landlord asking, "You don't go. I shall reduce the rent." "Yes, that's all right, but your house is also not very good. There are so many rats." "All right, you can remain without rent." "And still, there are rats." "All right, I shall give you one cat so there will be no dis..." "Ah, who is going to keep a cat? I will require milk also to feed." "All right, I shall give you half kilo or one kilo milk also." "All right." So then he says, "Now no rent and one kilo milk, that's all right." This was in 1942.

Morning Walk -- January 21, 1976, Mayapura:

Sudāmā: Which place, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No, no, far away from the city.

Sudāmā: Oh, yes, yes. Takal, outside of Tokyo, we had our temple.

Prabhupāda: So there were hotels?

Sudāmā: Yes. Yes. One bird restaurant.

Prabhupāda: Yes, bird. They are coming from fifty miles to eat there. So eating is so strong. If you prepare nice foodstuff and the flavor goes to hundred miles away, then they will automatically come. This is practical. Only for satisfaction of the tongue, there were special buses bringing them, and they were coming, full load of bus, to eat that jungle birds.

Devotee (2): Jungle birds. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes. The birds are available in the city, the fowls and cocks, but they wanted to eat the jungle birds. Just like there are men. They get sex pleasure at home; still, they go to the prostitutes. Very beautiful wife, but he goes to the prostitute. Taste is such bad.

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Again he became angry. "Somebody else than me? I am God."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "I am world preacher."

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...is so kind that He is sitting in everyone's heart to give him good advice. There is no need of asking. He is only finding out the good opportunity to speak to him. (Bengali) Two birds sitting? So He is always eager to give you advice. He comes down to give you advice. So we are not taking the advice. That is the position.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sarvasya cāham...

Indian man (2): Hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15).

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ, He said. So who is taking His advice? Five thousand years Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). Who is surrendering? Hm? Therefore Kṛṣṇa came again as Caitanya Mahāprabhu how—to surrender—but still the rascals will not do that.

Indian man (2): Ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8).

Prabhupāda: Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). This is illusion. (break) ...two cases. One was my friend, and he was a big man. So one servant, he advised him that "You do like this." He was immediately dismissed. I have got experience. "You are trying to advise me? Get out immediately." Huh?

Guḍākeśa: Very good example. So if we try to advise God...

Prabhupāda: No, God is not so foolish that... But He laughs that "This man has come to advise."

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Well, they manufacture so many ways. That does not mean we have to support it. We accept that these are animals, that's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda? There's a... I was telling. We were talking this morning that in America they have a custom. The children, when they eat a dead, like a bird or something, a turkey. There is one part, I think it's the breastbone. So the children, after one of them finishes eating the breastbone, they both hold, each hold one end, and they break it, and whoever has the biggest part... Each one makes a wish. Whoever gets the biggest part, they think that their wish will be fulfilled. So this is a rākṣasa civilization. So I am only amazed how you were able to make such a big movement with so many, such rākṣasas as we are. That was what I was thinking, that we were the people who were doing that, and that you have delivered us.

Prabhupāda: And therefore people are surprised that "How this man is doing like this?" They are surprised. Everyone is surprised.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They can't imagine how fallen we were. I don't think they think it's really possible to reform so...

Prabhupāda: It is impossible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But you have done the impossible.

Sudāmā: Therefore they think that we are hypnotized.

Prabhupāda: Even Śrīdhara Mahārāja says that "This pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma, we simply thought that it is an ideal, but you have practically done this." He admits that.

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1976, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: They openly advertise that "If you do transcendental meditation, then you can do your business better, you can have better sex life."

Prabhupāda: And that's all. So you can do your sense gratification process, yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi tuccham, what is condemned by Prahlāda Mahārāja, that "This kind of happiness is most abominable and insignificant." Tuccham. Tuccham means very insignificant. Kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham. It is just like itching between the two hand, and after-result is misery. That's all. Iva duḥkha-duḥkham. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ (SB 7.9.45). They know it, that after this enjoyment of itching sensation there will be so much trouble. But neha tṛpyanti: they are not satisfied. Again and again. Bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. Begetting one child... Just see. It is going on. (children in background) No shame. That is animal. No shame. In Western countries they are learning... I have seen. In Los Angeles beach they are having sex open. Just like these birds or beasts. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. They are trying to make birth control. Why? Bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. That illicit or legal sex, the after-result is very miserable.

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Then what is this? Everywhere someone is conscious. There is no vacancy. So this is useless talking, fool's talk.

Hṛdayānanda: In the outer space there is no consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Who says? The fools say. There are consciousness. There are so many birds flying from one planet...

Hṛdayānanda: Higher up.

Prabhupāda: Higher means it is higher for you because you are so dwarf. You are so dwarfed, you'll find that this tree is very big tree. You see? A small dwarf man, a pigmy, he'll say, "Oh, it is a big tree." So it is all relative. What is called? Relative world? Higher and lower, this is all relativity. You are so low that you see a tiny thing very high. It is due to your lowerness. Where there is no tree, these trees will be considered: "Oh, very high tree." So your scientists and your appreciator, all, they are like tiny dwarfs. What do they know about the universal affair? That is their fault. They are so small... That, the same example, Dr. Frog, calculating Atlantic Ocean. This is the fault. They do not consider their position. Just like there are thousands of ants. We can immediately kill them. And they are thinking they are very big, the ants, that "We are very busy. We are very big." So these rascals' position is like that. If the devatās in higher planets like, all the population of this material, this earth, they can kill like this-finish. Just like we can kill the ants.

Morning Walk -- March 5, 1976, Mayapur:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: ...for getting a big display inside. And I got him to agree to only seventeen point five percent commission, which is very reasonable.

Prabhupāda: All right. Let them send. (break) ...is compared with a rose flower without flavor. Man with education is compared with the koi. (cuckoo bird) Kokilānāṁ svaro rūpam. The bird, koi, is very black, but his sound, sweet, so sweet, everyone likes. Kokilānām svaro-rūpaṁ vidyā-rūpaṁ ku-rūpanam, nārī-rūpaṁ pati-vrataḥ. And woman's beauty is how she is chaste and devoted to the husband. That is beauty, not personal beauty. Vidyā-rūpaṁ ku-rūpanam. And education is the beauty for the brain. And the beauty of the koi is her sweet voice. Kṣamā-rūpaṁ tapasvinaḥ. And those who are saintly person, they should be simply forgiving. That is their beauty.

Haṁsadūta: Forgiving?

Pusta Kṛṣṇa: Forgiving.

Prabhupāda: Forgiving. Kṣamā-rūpaṁ tapasvinaḥ. Did Christ said that "Father, they did not know..."?

Haṁsadūta: Yeah. "Forgive them, for they know not what they do. Forgive them for they know not..."

Prabhupāda: Just see how much forgiving. This is saintly character. They're killing, and still forgiving. Kṣamā-rūpaṁ tapasvinaḥ. Christ is very ideal character, but these Christians, they not dignified him-degraded. So you can get on?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Morning Walk -- March 7, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: What is intelligence?

Hṛdāyānanda: He's thinking that "I know so many things, and these other people, they don't know these things. Therefore I'm better than them."

Prabhupāda: So the birds and beasts, they know better than you many things. There are many birds and beasts.

Guru-kṛpā: "They can't... They can't explain it."

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guru-kṛpā: "They can't explain it."

Prabhupāda: You also cannot explain. What is explaining? All nonsense.

Guru-kṛpā: "Well, I can explain."

Prabhupāda: "Perhaps." "Might be." "It was like this and that..." What is that explanation?

Guru-kṛpā: Well, the common man doesn't challenge that.

Prabhupāda: Mean common men are fool. But why we should accept?

Bhagavān: If they could really explain it, so many things would not be going wrong.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bhagavān: If they could actually explain it, so many things would not be going wrong. The thing is, their explanation causes more problems.

Satsvarūpa: But they say that..., When we say that everything is done by Kṛṣṇa, they say that's also "perhaps, maybe." They don't see...

Prabhupāda: No, we have got evidence. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). We have got evidence.

Morning Walk -- March 12, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: ...clean. That also we sometimes neglect. (break)...means rūpena jāyate iti prajā. Everything which is born, that is prajā. (break) ...children, our grandmother used to engage us for watering work, these pots. And that water was brought from down, two, three stories down, and we used to bring and put. That is good exercise and sport also, competition between children. (break) ...karma jyāyo hy akarmaṇaḥ. Everyone should be engaged. That is supervision. (break) ...are also engaged in serving Kṛṣṇa. They give flower, and they're offering: "Take this flower. Offer to Kṛṣṇa." This is service, dedicating. This is explained by Kṛṣṇa to Balarāma while going through the Vṛndāvana forest, that "Just see how the trees are welcoming You, how the birds..." You have got that picture?

Hrdayananda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is seeing that, how everyone is ready to serve. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa-bhakta also sees how everyone is eager to serve Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...engage them rightly, that is leadership. Yes. Otherwise andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). As a blind leader is leading other blind men, this whole world is going on like that. They do not know how to properly lead the people. Misleaders. (break) ...grains, cows, all they should be very properly taken care of and the products offered to Kṛṣṇa. Everyone should be engaged as Kṛṣṇa's servant. That is Vṛndāvana. In Vṛndāvana everyone is engaged how to please Kṛṣṇa. That is Vṛndāvana. (break) ...business to study Vedānta. In Vṛndāvana life we see they were not interested to know what is Brahman. They were interested how to please Kṛṣṇa, how to see Kṛṣṇa smiling. That is Vṛndāvana. Huh? Is it not? From Vṛndāvana picture you see they are simply busy to see how Kṛṣṇa is smiling. They didn't care for studying. What they will study? They were all village girls born in the ordinary class, and they did not know. (break) That is the... Ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim: (Nārada Pañcarātra) "If Kṛṣṇa is served, then where is the necessity of tapasya?" No more tapasya. Tapasya is meant for the third-grade men to come to the stage of serving Kṛṣṇa. And one who is, with heart and soul is serving Kṛṣṇa, he has finished all tapasya. Tepus tapas te juhuvuḥ sasnur ārya (SB 3.33.7). They have already finished all this tapasya. Therefore they have come to this stage. Kṛta-punya-punjaḥ (SB 10.12.11). What is called? Piling.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Ādi-puruṣam. Govindam ādi-puruṣam, that puruṣa. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. We are worshiping that supreme and original person. And the women are declaring, "independent." They are begging door to door to a man, "Please give me shelter. Give me a child," and they're independent. One American woman, was.... She was speaking that "In India the woman are treated as slave. We don't want." So I told her that it is better to become slave of one person than to slave of become hundreds. (laughter) The woman must become a slave. So instead of becoming slaves of so many persons, it is better to remain satisfied, a slave of one person. So she was stopped. She was the secretary of that Dr. Miśra. You know that? And our Vedic civilization says, narī-rūpaṁ pati-vratam: "The woman is beautiful when she remains as a slave to the husband." That is the beauty, not the personal beauty. How much she has learned to remain as a slave to the husband, that is Vedic civilization. Kokilānāṁ svaro rūpam. The cuckoo, it is black bird, but why people love it? Because of the sweet voice. Kokilānāṁ svaro rūpaṁ vidyā-rūpaṁ kurūpaṇam. A man may be ugly, black, but if he's learned, everyone will respect him. And narī-rūpaṁ pati-vratam. And the beauty of woman is how much she is devoted and obedient to the husband. So it is very difficult.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: And as soon as there is sickness, that means punishment. So if you want to be punished, then violate the hygienic laws. You can see that there is hospital and medical treatment and medicine—for whom?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sick people.

Prabhupāda: No, for the human society. Not for the birds, beasts. But they follow nature's law. But this rascal violates nature's law and suffers.

Yadubara: What about for the devotees, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Sometimes they are very sick, have so many...

Prabhupāda: Devotees.... To become devotee is not so cheap thing. You don't think that because you have got a tilaka you have become devotee. Why do you think like that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, eiṭa eka kalira chelā, nāke tilaka, galaya mālā:(?) "Here is another follower of Kali. He has got tilaka and mālā." Sahaja bhajana kacen māmu, saṅga laiyā pārera wala (?): "He is worshiping, bhajana, taking another's wife." Sahaja bhajana kacen māmu, saṅga laiyā pārera wala, ei ṭa eka kalira chelā: "Here is a servant of Kali. Simply he has changed his dress with tilaka and mālā." Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says. If you take tilaka and mālā and do all nonsense things, then you are not a devotee. You are Kali-chelā. To become a devotee is not so easy thing.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There is a proverb in Bengali that the crows, they eat stool. But when the crow is very young, he eats more stool. (break) ...tendency always, how to become hippie, as soon as there is little opportunity.

Akṣayānanda: Yes, it's something we have to guard against very carefully.

Prabhupāda: Don't allow them. Don't allow all these.

Akṣayānanda: Even in India people say like that, "Oh, you are hippies?"

Prabhupāda: As soon as you become hippie, immediately your all prestige will go.

Akṣayānanda: Finished, yes.

Prabhupāda: Very carefully.

Hari-śauri: The thing is, a lot of the devotees, they're not very much conscious that they're being watched by the, very carefully by the public.

Prabhupāda: Bird of paradise? No.

Hari-śauri: No, the bird of paradise is different.

Prabhupāda: Different. (end)

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Lokanātha: And you mentioned they were clapping for a long, long time after hearing you speak.

Prabhupāda: Not long, long time, but... Madhudviṣa, you remember that Catholic...

Madhudviṣa: Yes, they asked you about St. Francis, about him chanting to the dogs and the trees and the birds. And you said, "That is actually God-realization. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu."

Prabhupāda: And when they asked about Christ, and "He's our guru."

Madhudviṣa: You started your main lecture off there, "Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name." And then you went on to explain about the holy name.

Prabhupāda: Hm, (indistinct) are here. Why is it? Some wood. (break) ...grow foodgrains, simple living.

Devotee (1): The house is there, under the trees.(?)

Prabhupāda: Yes. (aside:) You have got this card.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the Western countries they would call this primitive.

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is civilization, that is there. The difficulty is they have no education about human civilization. Bahir-artha-māninā. They are simply captivated by the external energy, bodily conception of life. They do not know what is the aim of life. This is Western civilization. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). This is not Western, this is the demonic civilization. They do not know what is the aim of life. Our..., the material atmosphere, they're not happy, they're failing always, missing the real point.

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Akṣayānanda: Yes. Even that is...

Prabhupāda: It is not possible.

Akṣayānanda: So there's actually no protection in any case.

Prabhupāda: Somebody was.... Some bird was killed here?

Akṣayānanda: (break) Sometimes we see a big house and at least two or three generations are all living together, same two or three families, his mother, his...

Prabhupāda: That is joint family, yes.

Akṣayānanda: Yes, joint families. And because of that, the attachment is very strong, it appears.

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda? After the Battle of Kurukṣetra there were many men killed. How were all the young people and the women protected after so many millions of men were killed?

Prabhupāda: What do you mean by protection?

Devotee (2): Well, I mean like Arjuna was arguing that...

Prabhupāda: That was also.... That was condemned.

Akṣayānanda: Yes, that argument was not accepted.

Prabhupāda: That argument was not accepted by Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Fruits also?

Devotee (1): They're just some kind of little string bean.

Akṣayānanda: Like a bean.

Devotee (1): Birds and camels eat the bean.

Jayādvaita: Our ISKCON population rate is less.

Yaśodānandana: However, in some of our centers it tends to increase quite a bit.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you made the statement the other morning that if someone kills a young child, it is condemned. So if someone is killing the young child within the womb, that also should be condemned.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Simply that they have no clear idea what consciousness is and what life is. Therefore all these things are going on.

Prabhupāda: All rascals. How they are risking their own life, karma-bandhana. Just like a thief. He is thinking "I am doing very nice business. Without any..., I am getting so much money." That is risky.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Low tide. Yes. (Hindi to passerby)

Prabhupāda: (break) Garuḍa. He is perfect vegetarian. You know what is his food? Snakes. (Dr. Patel laughs) And he is carrying the Lord. It is a devotee, you see? He is not vegetarian. And how powerful he is that one sparrow, a small bird, lost his egg. The samudra took it away. And he decided, "I shall dry this samudra." So he began to pick up some water. So Nārada Muni was passing. So he asked, "What you are doing?" And "Sir, yes, the samudra has taken my egg, so I shall dry it up." So he said, "But how you can do it? You are so small. You just pray to your head. You are bird, and he is the head of the birds. You just pray to Garuḍa. He can do it." So he prayed Garuḍa, and Garuḍa came and asked samudra, "Immediately deliver; otherwise I shall take step." Immediately it was delivered. Such powerful. Yes. And he was not a vegetarian. (Hindi with Dr. Patel) You become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the... (Hindi with Dr. Patel) (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Thank you very much. Namaskāra. Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Real culture is how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. (Hindi)...no illicit sex, no gambling, automatically. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samā... If you simply turn these people to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all good qualities will come automatically. All good qualities. That is wanted. And we are practically seeing that. Simply by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, lover of Kṛṣṇa, they are becoming qualified. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). There is no good qualification for a nondevotee. He'll simply act on mental speculation, that's all. It has no value.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1976, Melbourne:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Okay. I noticed that also. I thought it was strange, some time back. (break)

Prabhupāda: Hayagrīva edited. He thought, "cattle-raising." Not "cattle-raising," but the word.... There.... It is mistranslation. It is go-rakṣya, "giving protection to the cows." Especially mentioned, go-rakṣya, not otherwise. The animal-eaters may take other animals, but not cow. They can take the pig, goats, lambs, rabbits, so many others, if they at all want to eat meat, birds, these so many. There is no such mention that "Animals should be protected," no. "Cows should be protected." That is Kṛṣṇa's order. (break) They have decided to kill the cow. They have decided, "No brain. Eat." And our prayer is go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca, "to do good to the brāhmaṇas and the cows." Actually it is revolutionary to the modern age. But how it is possible we say otherwise? That Bon Mahārāja came and said, "Right? Am I right?" (?) When Bon Mahārāja here.... When our students said something, "Oh, that you cannot say. That you cannot say." He said like that.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Statue.

Hari-śauri: If you want to glorify some great personality.

Prabhupāda: But we, if we keep that statue in a temple, is it not more respectful?

Guest (3): Yes.

Prabhupāda: If I expose the statue on the open field and the crows and birds are passing stool on his head and it is going down his mouth, is it respectful? Do you think it is respectful?

Guest (2): Probably not.

Prabhupāda: So if that statue is kept in a temple and you dress, you garland, you offer food, is it not more respectful?

Guest (2): Offer food to an idol?

Hari-śauri: It's not an idol. This is a point Prabhupāda is making.

Prabhupāda: The point is how to offer respect, that if you respect a person, so if you expose this form of the person on the public park, giving the crows chance to pass stool on his head, that is more respectful? Or if you keep that statue in a temple and daily dress him and garland him and offer him food, that is more respectful? Which is more respectful? You are doing the same thing, but you are exposing to the stool of birds and crows.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Guest (2): No, see, you have a misunderstanding of the representation...

Prabhupāda: No misunderstanding. It is a common sense that if you have got respect for a person, instead of installing his form—either it is statue or stone, it doesn't matter—keeping it outside and giving chance the bird to pass stool on his head, if you keep that statue in a nice place, which is more respectful? That is my question. It is a common sense. If you have got respect for a person.... You have installed the statue. Don't call Deity. Statue. So which is more respectful, to keep him exposed on the open field or to keep him in a temple?

Guest (2): Well, I think if I was looking at it in your point of view, it would be more respectful to put him inside.

Prabhupāda: That's the.... That is the point.

Guest (4): That's your point of view, not ours.

Prabhupāda: Then? That is your.... I do not know what is your point of view, that you expose this to the open air and the birds pass stool on it and you still...

Guest (2): It is simply a workmanship of man to make the building maybe more...

Prabhupāda: I am just talking on the practical point of view. Which is more respectful? Apart from other points, if we actually offer somebody respect, then you must give him proper respect.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Guest (2): Well, I don't think that it was done on Moronai because Moronai is not in that statue.

Prabhupāda: No, no, Moronai, anyone. I am not.... But there are so many statues, so many statues in the open field, and they are exposed to the birds for passing stool. Do you think it is more respectful than one keeping the same statue in a nice sacred temple and worshiping?

Guest (2): Yes, it's nice. They should.

Prabhupāda: So you criticize the person who is keeping the statue within a temple, "the heathen worship, idol worship," and you keep your father's statue exposed for passing stool on his head.

Guest (4): You know, if you're going to liken it unto that, I can also liken it unto your statues down here in your temple...

Prabhupāda: No, take it as statue, but where is good sense, to keep a statue within a temple or to keep it open field for passing stool by the birds?

Guest (4): Okay, here is some of my good sense. You've got your statues in your temple, and I notice there were a lot of flies in there the other night crawling all over it and doing their, whatever they do.

Prabhupāda: So do you mean a fly coming and crow passing stool is the same thing? Very good sense.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Then how he's living? And the elephant in the forest of Africa. Who is going to give them food? How they're living? From the elephant to the ant, He's providing, and He cannot provide you. This is all mistaken idea. You haven't got to ask. Everything is there. Because in the.... (break) ...accustomed to sense gratification life after life, we are habituated to ask. That is a habit. "Habit is the second nature." Actually, we don't require. These dogs, they are not asking, going to the church for asking, "God, give us our daily bread." Where he is getting bread? (break) Dogs are enjoying, but they are not asking bread from God. And where they are getting? (bird chirping in background.) (break) ...how he's chirping so nicely. But he has no anxiety. He knows that "I'll get my food anywhere. That's all right." The bird has got the sense, confidence: "Yes, I'll get." And that's a fact.

Guru-kṛpā: They're living day to day.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guru-kṛpā: They are living day to day.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1976, Honolulu:

Devotee (1): You said that the different living entities in lower forms of life, they became those lower forms of life due to their work in the human form?

Prabhupāda: Yes. A criminal is freed, but if he again commits criminal..., criminality, then again he's put into the jail, like that. (inaudible) ...his freedom, now make your choice. But if you misuse it, then again go.... māyāprāpte nivartante mṛtyuḥ saṁsāra vartmani. (break) ...go home back to Godhead. But if we do not take the chance, and misuse it, like animals, then again we go down. The process is to go back to home, back to Godhead, eternal life, blissful life. And other process is the cycle of birth and death in different species of life. So this human form of body is to make choice whether to continue the cycle of birth and death in different species of life, or you want to go home, back to Godhead. (Sanskrit) He's Kṛṣṇa conscious when he goes back to home, back to Godhead. (inaudible) species of life, according to karma, they're going to be fish. From fish, by nature's way, leads to the plants, then insect. In this way.... Then birds, then beasts, again human being. Again another birth. In this way they are.... bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). Similarly, after many, many births, when he comes to his senses.... "I have enjoyed very nice life. Now let me go back home..." Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti... (BG 7.19). Kṛṣṇa says, sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. Such mahātmā, great soul, who has accepted that Kṛṣṇa is everything, he is very, very rarely found. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). After many, many millions.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: But what you are doing? You are also doing everything hoping that you'll feel happy. Practically you're not doing anything. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee (2): They think that everything was created just so that we could enjoy for a few years and then die.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless they have solved the problems of death, all their hopes are useless. (break) ...is Sada? What is that?

Hari-śauri: Sadaputa.

Prabhupāda: Sadaputa. He has said nicely that "They depend on chance. We depend on God." That's all. (break) Some dress? No, bird (indistinct)

Devotee (2): No, they have some bathing trunks on.

Hari-śauri: Sometimes they wear like a rubber suit. Something like the scales of a fish. It keeps them.... (laughing)

Devotee (2): Aldous Huxley liked to think of the idea that there's no controller, so that he could enjoy without the feeling of guilt.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the whole idea. Thieves and rogues, they think "If there's no government, then we can do whatever we like." Who is there of the thieves and rogues?

Hari-śauri: That description's given when after the brāhmaṇas killed King Vena, they saw a great huge dust cloud on the horizon from all the thieves and rogues rushing back into the kingdom (laughing) when there was no ruler.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1976, Honolulu:

Devotee (3): Danger also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Any moment.

Devotee (3): So there's anxiety in all of the happiness in this world.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (Sanskrit) asad grahāt. Because they have accepted something which is not happiness, temporary, they're always full of anxiety. This is the nature. The bird flying, anxiety "Oh, so many men are coming." He's not in peace. He was eating something; as soon as he sees so many.... "Oh, away," flying. Anxiety. (Sanskrit) asad grahāt. Asat. Asat means temporary. The Vedic injunction is asato mā sad gamaya: don't stay in asat. Go to the sat, which is permanent. Asato mā sad gamaya (indistinct) jyotir gamaya (indistinct). Don't remain in darkness, go to the light. (inaudible) Ordinarily they want danger (inaudible). The same Vedic.... Asato mā jyotir gamaya.

Devotee (2): (break) ...that they are satisfied with the knowledge that it's given in most religious books, because they say that...

Prabhupāda: Where is religious book?

Devotee (2): Bible.

Prabhupāda: All speculation. Claims only. Repeatedly religion means orders of God. If you do not know who is God.... If you do not know what is government, then what is government law?

Devotee (2): The world religions are not presented very scientifically.

Prabhupāda: Many religions. God is one. Religion is one. If you do not know God, then you do not know religion.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Stena eva sa ucyate (BG 3.12). In Bhāgavata it is written that everything belongs to God. You take whatever is your necessity. You take more, then you'll be punished. This is Bhāgavata's statement. So now the business is to become capitalist. He's taking more, holding the whole stock, at least in India. It is not coming to the market, and people are starving. So they will be punished. (break) ...also. The excess grain they are throwing it into the sea. So they'll be punished. They are also waiting, (Sanskrit). (break) ...spiritual communism. Don't take more. Just like the natural birds, if you keep one bag of rice here, he'll come, but they will take three, four grains, and they'll go away. And if you ask a man, "Here is some stack of rice." "Ah, I'll take." Immediately finished. One man will take it the whole stack, everything. "Oh, I've got it free. Let me take it." But the birds, they're under natural law. They know, "Ah, I have finished. I have got my belly filled up. I don't require any more." So God has given everything sufficiently. If every man takes whatever he wants absolutely, then there is no difficulty. That is your complication. But why there should be fight? Father's property of every son. He take as much as he requires. Accept father, his property, and take as much as you require. Don't take more. That is real communism. So where is that communism? Who has it? The material nature, the mother, and God is the father. And we are all children. That's all. Plain truth. (break) ...accept this philosophy?

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. There is no other way. We are the only shelter for these forlorn women.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have to give them shelter.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, certainly.

Rādhāvallabha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, scientists have this theory called use and disuse. They would say that these birds here that have the long beaks for eating fish, originally, they did not have that, but after many, many millions of years of trying to catch fish, gradually their beaks became longer. And they would say that would be the origin of that species.

Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that?

Hṛdayānanda: He's saying that because the fish are trying to catch fish, therefore...

Rāmeśvara: The birds are trying to catch the fish.

Hṛdayānanda: Therefore a beak comes out. (laughter)

Bali-mardana: No, no. That's not the theory. The theory is that the ones with the long beaks are able to catch the fish. Therefore, the other ones die off.

Hṛdayānanda: Therefore they get the long beaks?

Bali-mardana: Just from mutation.

Rādhāvallabha: That's not. It's another theory.

Hṛdayānanda: Madness.

Candanācārya: It's another theory.

Prabhupāda: Hmm? So that's all right. If we are eager for Kṛṣṇa, we shall get Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: And nature supplies the body, that's all. Simple thing.

Rāmeśvara: But they do not put a limit, 8,400,000. They think that it can keep going on increasing, increasing.

Prabhupāda: Then let it go on. That's all right. What is wrong?

Candanācārya: By their theory, though, a human being would be able to generate wings or a beak like a bird.

Prabhupāda: Yes, there are human beings who can fly in the sky. Siddhaloka, Siddhaloka. There is a planet called Siddhaloka. There the human beings from one planet to another go.

Hari-śauri: They have wings?

Prabhupāda: No wings.

Rāmeśvara: The Gandharvas have wings.

Candanācārya: Why do you need wings if you can fly? Also Garuḍa has a beak. Where are we going now?

Hari-śauri: Prabhupāda said in Hawaii there's no.... (pause)

Prabhupāda: The old man, her father?

Hari-śauri: I hope so. (pause) (break)...

Prabhupāda: Send to Svarūpa Dāmodara, he has got also.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

bring coal in Sheffield. What is called. Sheffield? There are many coal mines?

Hari-śauri: To bring coals to Newcastle.

Prabhupāda: Yes, like that. Why should you bring your material ideas to the spiritual world? There is no relativity. Everything absolute.

Rāmeśvara: There is no day or night. Everything is self-illuminating.

Prabhupāda: There is, but there is no need. What is this penguin? No, penguin? Literature?

Rāmeśvara: It's a bird found in the South Pole, penguin, lives in the south, bottom of the earth.

Prabhupāda: Bottom of the...?

Rāmeśvara: It's called Antarctica. Are there seasonal changes, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Rain and different seasonal...?

Prabhupāda: Everything is there, but there is no necessity. (pause) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...to the USA, many sahajiyās, they requested me, "Sir, why you are going? You are in Vṛndāvana. Continue your bhajana. What is the use of preaching?"

Rāmeśvara: What is the use of preaching?

Prabhupāda: Preaching. They advised me like that.

Rāmeśvara: They don't believe in Lord Caitanya, these sahajiyās in Vṛndāvana?

Prabhupāda: Mostly. They have no knowledge. Material. Prākṛta-sahajiyā. Their real name is prākṛta. Their thoughts are on this material platform. Just as they are preferring this conjugal love because here the sex is prominent. They are thinking that is the highest stage. What is the lowest stage here, they're taking that as the highest stage. In the.... Of course, in the spiritual world there is such thing, but as Kṛṣṇa has many other līlās, why they are not attracted to other līlās?

Rāmeśvara: They don't want to be limited. They think that Kṛṣṇa is the kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). So why...

Prabhupāda: That is good.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Gopavṛndapāla: Even in this life they begin to take on the qualities of their next life. Like the surfers, they put on a black suit that is very smooth so that they can go through the waves very swiftly like the fish do. So they even look like the fish. And they shape their surfboard the same shape as the fish are.

Prabhupāda: They have to imitate. Otherwise, they cannot struggle. Just like they have made the 747 airship. But the shape is like a bird. You cannot make other shape. That you cannot do. If you make the shape of the 747 airplane like a man, it will finish. So you have to take knowledge from God's creation. You cannot create independently. That is not possible. Just like ships and boats, they are shaped like fish, the same shape; otherwise, you cannot run on water. That is not possible. The original design is made by God, and you have to follow.

Gopavṛndapāla: We told you yesterday, Śrīla Prabhupāda, about the hang-gliders? They hang on wings and then they glide down from the cliffs like birds. To make the gliders they had to study the birds' movements for many, many years just to get the right shape for the wings.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Oh, Jadurāṇī, how are you?

Jadurāṇī: Jaya, Prabhupāda.

Dr. Wolfe: Prabhupāda, may I say something, add something to this idea that the so-called rigid flight is insecure? Therefore the rigid planes are insecure because they do not imitate nature, and that is why they have so many accidents with the planes. But these gliders are much safer because they are more like birds.

Prabhupāda: After all, imitation is imitation. Sometimes it is perfect imitation.... Perfect cannot be. But as far as possible. But imitation is there. And the material life is imitation. Because material life means we want to imitate God. That is material life. God is all-powerful; we want to become all-powerful. That is material life. And the struggle for existence. Because we cannot become God, it is impossible, but artificially, they are trying to become God. And that is struggle for existence.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Trivikrama: The bad way is also the mercy of the Lord to help us realize that...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Bad way, good way, man proposes, God disposes. You want something, bad or good.... Actually, everything is bad. This body or the fish's body or the dog's body, that is all material body. So everything is bad. But I prefer to get the body of a human being or a dog or a fish or a bird. That is my choice. So God gives you that body. Everywhere God's mercy is there, because whatever you want, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). In the material world, you have come to enjoy. You cannot enjoy. You are thinking.... Just like child. He's playing with something for sometime, again taking another thing, again taking another thing, childish. So similarly we want to enjoy this material world. Sometimes I am thinking it will be convenient if I get a man's body, it will be convenient if I get a tiger's body, it will be convenient if I get a fish's body. So God is supplying you: "All right, you take this body." So what is God's fault? He is very kind. You wanted to do something. Do it. Not only that, if he forgets that "I wanted the fish body, now how I have got it?" No, he forgets that he wanted it. So God reminds him that "You wanted this body; you have got this body." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). So God is very kind in all circumstances. Now we proposing to enjoy this material world under different situations, and God is helping us. Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). You want to wander within this material world. That is your proposal.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: So the living entity who is in the lower body like insects or plants...

Prabhupāda: Yes. They will come automatically to the human form of body, by promotion.

Rāmeśvara: And he passes through all the species?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Rāmeśvara: So he has no desire to fly, but still he passes through bird species.

Prabhupāda: No, just like child is taken care of. Child does not know what he is doing, but the father, mother, taking care of.

Hari-śauri: He's taken through stages.

Prabhupāda: So mother nature takes care to bring him again to the grown-up youthful life. Now you make your decision. So, if you don't make your decision, the knowledge is there, the books are there, if you don't make your decision, still you want to remain as cats and dogs, again begin.

Devotee: Do most humans go down to the animal species again after human life?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Do most human beings fall down into the animal species?

Prabhupāda: Not necessarily. He can become a stool worm. (laughter)

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what is the value for the living entity to automatically pass through all these different species? Does he get any knowledge?

Prabhupāda: To, to finish his life of imprisonment.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Another imagination. These are actual facts.(?)

Hari-śauri: They just made up different compositions of bones and then drew some outlines on them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are imagination.

Hari-śauri: But you said in Hawaii though that there are some animals that are as big as skyscrapers?

Prabhupāda: Yes, these are birds. It is far from this earth though. They travel from one planet to another.

Rāmeśvara: So these bones that they have found of these gigantic animals, they were all living underneath the water.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Not on the land.

Prabhupāda: Maybe. But the list is there: jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. There are 900,000 different forms, and how many we have seen? There is information in the śāstra. Paśavas triṁśal-lakṣāṇi. Three million different types of animals.

Hari-śauri: We've seen a few hundred at most.

Prabhupāda: That's all. (laughs) That is also doubtful.

Rāmeśvara: Kṛṣṇa incarnates into every species of life. He can appear in any form.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise, why the form came? Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). If we have to accept this sūtra, that everything emanates from Him, so unless Kṛṣṇa has got such similar form...?

Hari-śauri: That's one argument that always defeats the impersonalists. They can't explain how forms have come from something without form.

Prabhupāda: Impersonalists are neophytes. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, "With poor fund of knowledge." Their knowledge is imperfect.

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Nalinīkaṇṭha: "The happiness perceived with reference to the sense objects by contact with the body can be obtained in any form of life, according to one's past fruitive activities. Such happiness is automatically obtained without endeavor, just as we obtain distress."

Prabhupāda: Thank you. So here in the material world happiness means sense gratification, that's all. So Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "The happiness of sense gratification, obtainable in any form of life..." The birds, beasts, human beings or even the demigods, cats, dogs—everyone has got the happiness of sense gratification, namely eating, sleeping, sex and defense. That is obtainable everywhere. But the spiritual happiness, that is obtainable in human form of life. Therefore the human being from childhood... Kaumāra ācaret prajño dharmān bhāgavatān iha (SB 7.6.1). From the very beginning of childhood. Why so early? Durlābhaṁ manusam janma. This human form of life is obtained after many, many births' evolutionary process. And adhruvam. There is no certainty that I shall live so many years. Although it is estimated that one is expected to live for at least hundred years—that is estimation—but at the present moment at least, nobody is living up to that. So even there is such indication, still, there is no guarantee. We can die at any moment. Adhruvam, but arthadam. Although it is adhruvam—there is no guarantee—but whatever period we get, we can utilize it for the best purpose. Arthadam. We can gain the ultimate goal of life, arthadam. That is... He is giving stress. Arthadam means spiritual realization. That is arthadam. Otherwise we remain like animals. The animal has also sense gratification process: how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex and how to defend. So sukham aindriyakaṁ daitya. He is addressing his friends as daitya, "sons of the demons." He is addressing his father as "best of the demons." (laughs) There are two classes of men: deva and asura. Dvau bhūta-sargau loke daiva asura eva ca (BG 16.6). In this material world there are... (aside:) Why not Dr. Wolfe may come here, bring his chair here? You can sit down there. You can bring your chair. So this sense gratification is available. Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ yat. These are called viṣaya. Viṣaya means sense enjoyment. So viṣayaḥ sarvataḥ syāt. In any form of life these four principles are there. Eating arrangement is there. (aside:) Come on. Sleeping arrangement is there. The bird, he is not anxious about eating, sleeping, mating. It is already there. He has got a nest above the tree. At night he is very safe and sleeping nicely. And in the morning, he knows, somewhere there is some fruit, he'll get his food. He's not anxious. He goes anywhere. And for mating, the male and female bird are always together. The pigeons, they are having every hour, four times, five times, mating. So that arrangement is always there. And defense? They are on the ground. As soon as there is some man, immediately they go up, defense. So they know, everyone knows, how to enjoy this viṣaya-eating, sleeping, mating and defending. So the śāstra says, viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. "These four principles of necessities of the body are available anywhere." Either you are born as a human being or a cat or a dog or a bird or beast or demigod, these are available. So we should not bother about these things. The arrangement is already there. By the grace of God, things are already there. So Nārada Muni said, "Don't bother about these things." Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ (SB 1.5.18). So we are wandering within this universe in different forms of life, in different planets, upary adhaḥ, upari, adhaḥ, upper planetary systems, down planetary system. We are having these facilities in different standard. The demigods, they have got their different standard of life, thousands and thousands of times better than ours. We have got better standard of life. Just like the Americans, they have got better standard of life than the Indians. So this higher standard, lower standard, but whatever standard may be, the thing, the taste of material enjoyment, is there. Sex intercourse in the human form of life and the sex intercourse of the dog on the street, the taste is the same. Taste is not changed. You put any eatable either in the gold pot or in the iron pot: the taste is the same. Therefore viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. The taste of these sense enjoyable things are the same everywhere.

Interview with Jackie Vaughn (Black Congressman) -- July 12, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Everyone tries. That is not a particular job for you. Everyone is trying; the cats and dogs, they are also trying. The cat also very much anxious to give protection to the cubs, innocent, helpless. The dog also giving. The birds, they're bringing food for the offspring, and as soon as the mother comes, they become very much engladdened, "Oh, here is food, here is food." And they, with the mouth, they.... So this kind of sentiment is there even in the cats, dogs, animals, birds, beasts. That is natural. But we do not know how to do actual welfare activity. Somebody's engaged with his family. Somebody is engaged with his own body. Somebody.... This is only development of consciousness. The animals, they are interested with the body, himself. The human being, they are interested with the extension of the body. Just like I am alone now. Now when I become, you young men, then I have got my wife, then my interest is also for my wife. The wife's interest is for the husband. In this way, children, then interest extended, husband, wife, children. Then, this is family-wise. Then little advancement, of the society. Little advancement, community. Just like in your country, the sense of black community, white community. Then, above that, for the nation. When there is war between America and other nation, then you black and white people forget the small interest for national interest. You advance to fight, to lay down your life. So in this way we can make progress, but such progress is not perfection. Such progress is not perfection. The example is given, just like there is tree, and the whole tree is full of branches, twigs and leaves and flowers and fruits. So somebody is watering the fruit, somebody is watering the leaf, somebody is watering the branches, somebody the twigs, but everyone is improper. One who is watering the root, he's perfect. He knows how to do things. If you water the root of the tree, it will go to the twigs, it will go to the leaves, it will go to the fruit, it will go to the flower. One who does not know the root, however he might be working very diligently for the poor humanity or community or society, they will never be successful to gain the result, peace and prosperity. They are forgetting the root. And root is God. So they must put water in the root. Then it will be all right. Otherwise, it will be all failure. The history of the world is like that. They are trying for the nation, for the society, for the community, and for the family, but everything has become unsuccessful.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Devotee: Monkeys.

Prabhupāda: Monkeys also. So monkey's the forefather of Darwin. Better kill them so that there is no opportunity of criticism that "You are coming from monkey." You extinct this species. It is rather insulting. If I say that you are descendant of monkey, then it is insult. So extinct this monkey. I don't think there is monkey here. Africa there is monkey. You have been in Africa? There are monkey-eating birds. Top of the tree, monkey, they catch up on the head and drop it from high. And then they take it. (pause) There was a boat which belonged to this house. I think he has sold it.

Mādhavānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: There was no objection.

Mādhavānanda: He sold it to the lawyer, Ambarīṣa's lawyer. He did not do a very good job for us, and the proof is that the owner sold the boat to the lawyer. He got a very good deal. So he was working with Groane(?), the former owner.

Prabhupāda: In his favor.

Mādhavānanda: In his favor.

Prabhupāda: Cheating.

Mādhavānanda: Yes. And the boys were not experienced enough to protect the property. Chandeliers were taken, statues, some furniture. It was not done very nicely.

Prabhupāda: That means our men were not experienced, Jagadīśa and Govardhana. Who else? Who was in charge?

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Hari-śauri: Then they say what is the relevance of knowing who your father is? We exist, so let's move forward.

Prabhupāda: No, no, first of all, thing is that you say there is no God. That is.... Or there is no father. How it can be accepted?

Jayādvaita: They'll say that mother and father..., we see that a human being has a mother and father.

Prabhupāda: Everyone has mother and father. Birds, beasts, everyone.

Jayādvaita: But these material things, they don't need mothers and fathers.

Prabhupāda: No, there is father, you do not know. You are blind. Bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). God says there that "I am the seed-giving father." Otherwise, how it is possible to beget children? You are experienced that unless the father gives the seed, there is no question of children. So how they can deny the father? You may have seen or not seen, doesn't matter. But there must be father. Just like Jābāla Upaniṣad, Gautama Muni asked that Satyaka, "Who is your father?" First of all said: "Are you brāhmaṇa?" "Sir, I do not know." "Who is your father?" "I do not know." "Go and ask your mother." Mother asked, she said, "I do not remember who is your father." She never denied, that "You had no father; you were automatically born." She never said that. She said only that "I don't remember who is your father." And he wanted.... (aside:) Don't. Want to that service.(?) So the mother said that "I do not remember who is your father." So he said frankly, that "My mother does not remember who is my father." So Gautama Muni accepted him, that "You are so truthful; so you are brāhmaṇa. I will accept you." Nobody would like to say that "My mother does not remember who is my father." But he said that. Therefore he accepted him that "You are so truthful. I'll accept you as my disciple." So the point is, the mother said "I do not remember who is your father." But the mother did not say that "You are born without father." That is not possible. So when there is mother, there is children, there must be father. That's a fact. You cannot put any argument. How they can say there is no God? "We have not seen God." What is this nonsense argument. Hm? What will be the answer?

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Rakṣaṇa: We should expand our New Bhakta program so that they can have weekend stays in āśramas, have practical experience.

Prabhupāda: That they are coming.

Mādhavānanda: (break) ...of birds.

Prabhupāda: Yes. As soon as there are trees, there will be birds.

Hari-śauri: I saw a squirrel down there earlier on as well. Squirrels, there was one just down there earlier on.

Prabhupāda: Ideal. Let there be an ideal section, our people, our men. And do your personal advancement. But that much.... If people come, it's all right. Otherwise, we must make our own life successful.

Mādhavānanda: Once you wrote Gargamuni Swami in Nepal that even if they will not listen, simply by your being there, even if they see you chant japa sitting on a street corner, they will become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Jayādvaita: We got a phone call today from someone in Kalamazoo-it's many hours away. And he met some devotee in a store who was there for purchasing something, and just by talking for a few minutes he decided that he wanted to come here and see you in Detroit. So he was calling on the phone, when would you be here.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) If we get this land we can cultivate some grains, foodstuff. On account of this water facility you can grow so many things, vegetables, fruits, foodgrains, very nice. Keep cows. (break) Industrial civilization will fail. They are manufacturing simply cars. The time is approaching very swiftly when there will be no more demand for cars.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Mādhavānanda: This is their favorite place.

Prabhupāda: All, they are living in the same tree?

Mādhavānanda: Yes. Seven of them.

Pālikā: These peacocks are very friendly here. They stay together. They lay here altogether in the sun.

Prabhupāda: Birds of the same feather flock together. (laughter)

Jayādvaita: By Ann Arbor temple there is one squirrel who comes to take prasāda from the devotees. He comes right up to them and takes some laḍḍu or something like that. Very fat squirrel.

Prabhupāda: He knows that they'll not harm.

Jayādvaita: Yes.

Mādhavānanda: The neighbors say that every morning the peacocks wake them up.

Passerby on a boat: Ahoy there!

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Hare Kṛṣṇa!

Mādhavānanda: What does ahoy mean?

Prabhupāda: What they say?

Mādhavānanda: Ahoy.

Hari-śauri: It's a nautical form of greeting used by sailors.

Mādhavānanda: It's a greeting.

Prabhupāda: They'll come gradually. In that way, it is a very important place. There are so many people passing.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: No, that is our gateway?

Mādhavānanda: Place there. Serve prasāda and preach.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you invite them: "Come in, take prasāda." So out of inquisitiveness, they may come, and give them prasāda, show them temple. In this way.... Show them our books. Simply put there signboard, "Please come in and take prasāda." (break) ...and read our books, like that. The bird took a fish in that way?

Mādhavānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And fell and flew away. How quickly they can take. Everyone knows his business. That intelligence there everywhere. Āhāra nidrā bhayam maithunī, for these things, how to eat, how to sleep, how to enjoy sex and how to defend, everyone knows. You do not require to educate them. Only they cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is only possible by the human beings. Otherwise, other necessities of bodily, everyone knows. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovidaḥ. Every morning, this place should be washed with water. Then it will be very nice. Then we can sit down and chant all day and night, Hare Kṛṣṇa. What is the wrong there? Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). Haridāsa Ṭhākura was doing that. But don't imitate. But I mean to say, if you do that, where is the problem? (break) ...I think you can acquire some land through the government for agriculture and cow protection. There are so many, so much vacant land. I think they will accept community proposal. Sometimes invite some important government officials; let them see what you are doing.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: If he wants to remain in this material world, creates a situation and continues his desire, then he has to take... And when he understands that "To live in this material condition is very troublesome. Why shall I live here?" then he becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious and he goes back to home, back to... And so long he desires, "No, why not? If I remain in this situation, I'll be happy," then he'll have to get a body. Nature will give him all chances: "Get this body." If one is very pleased to take raw flesh, "All right, why artificially? Take this body, tiger." That's all. Nature is... God is so kind. Before we were talking of God's mercifulness, so if you are thinking that it is very happy life to eat, without any discrimination, anything, so immediately God orders nature, "You give him body of a pig. He can eat anything, even up to stool. Give him this body." Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). This yantra, this vehicle, this body, is given to him: "Yes, now you can eat anything, up to stool." And he is very pleased. He wanted it. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). He does not hesitate or feel any inconvenience. God is there, even within the heart of the pig, "My dear pig, you wanted a body like this. You have now got it, now eat, here is stool. You eat." And he enjoys. So the living entity within this material world, he wanted to enjoy, "I am the monarch of all I survey." So God gives him all facility: "Whatever you want, you do." Karaṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad yoni-janmasu. He wanted it, therefore he gets different types of body. That is transmigration. But still He comes and teaches, "Rascal, why you are suffering in this way? Give up this plan; surrender to Me immediately." But he is making plan only. Just like in your country, there is everything opulent. The hippies are making plan, "We shall be happy in this way." What can be done? Everyone has got little independence. Let him do. So, so long we shall make plan to enjoy this material world, God will give us all facility, "All right, enjoy." Not enjoy, suffer. But because He is compassionate, kind, merciful, still He comes and begs, "You rascal, why you are making plan? Give up this. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam... (BG 18.66). Then you'll be happy." So if anyone is intelligent, he takes God's direct instruction and he becomes happy. Otherwise, go on making plan. He'll give you facility. That is God's kindness. They are enjoying. The birds of the same feather flock together. They keep together, they fly together. They enjoy, they think it is enjoying.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Under the influence of material desire, the entity is born sometimes as a demigod."

Prabhupāda: This is material desire, to try to become master. This is the root cause of material life. Go on.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Under the influence of material desire the entity is born sometimes as a demigod, sometimes as a man, sometimes as a beast, as a bird, as a worm, as an aquatic, as a saintly man, as a bug. This is going on. And in all circumstances the living entity thinks himself to be the master of his circumstances, yet he is under the..."

Prabhupāda: Even in the stool, the worms in the stool, he's also thinking "I have got so much stool to eat." This same mastership. "I am the monarch of all I survey. I have got so much stool." And you just take the worm from the stool, put it here: "No, no, no, here is my enjoyment." This mastership mentality is there in Brahma, and the mastership mentality is there in the worm of the stool. This mentality you have to give up. Then you become liberated. That is liberation. The bondage is that mastership mentality. He's servant, but he's thinking falsely that he's master. Just like your President Nixon. He thought that "Now I have become master of America, I'm president." He forgot that he's servant. As soon as the people wanted, dragged him down. That he forgot, that "I'm servant of the people." So everyone is servant, but falsely thinking "I'm master." That is material disease. The best thing is that if I have to remain servant, why not become servant of Kṛṣṇa? That's all. That is perfection. That is perfect life. Even by becoming a false master of the whole American country, I was not happy, I am now dragged down as a common man, Mr. Nixon, then what is the use of becoming master? It is all false. Let me become servant of Kṛṣṇa; then it is perfect. Instead of becoming a false master of the American country, let me be a real servant of Kṛṣṇa. That is liberty, liberated. Because any stage of my life, to become master is false. That is not possible. He has to be convinced that he cannot be master. Your constitution is to remain servant. If you prefer to remain servant of a big populace in America... But you are servant; don't think you are master. That is sane. And soon as you commit mistake as master, immediately he's in trouble. Is it not? That's it. You give up this false notion that "I am master." Then your all welfare is there. We teach that ask a Godbrother, "Prabhu." Don't become master, but become servant. Prabhu means "my lord." So everyone, if you address each other "prabhu," that mastership mentality will be less. If you remember that "I am not master. I am servant."

Prabhupada Visits Palace and Garden -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: But what do you mean by culture? First of all, the question will be "What do you mean by culture?"

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's some idea of progress involved, advancement of life. Otherwise, there's no need for any kind of progress. One remains as a child.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Culture means advancement in knowledge. We say, "You're a gentleman of culture." That means he's advanced in knowledge. So what is the advancement of knowledge? Next question will be.

Rakṣaṇa: Kṛṣṇa told Arjuna that that was to know that he was factually not his body.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is advancement of knowledge. Otherwise, what is the difference between this bird and the human being? He's also dancing very jolly, but he has no knowledge that he's not this body. So if the human being also remains falsely jolly without any knowledge of his existence, then what is the difference between these birds, dogs and human beings? Why we say low grade, animals? He's living in his own way. He has got all the facilities of eating, sleeping, sex and defense. Just you have all the same things. Where is the difference between you and him? Why you say advanced in knowledge?

Rakṣaṇa: Nowadays they say that they're advanced in knowledge even without any sophistication at all, while Arjuna, when he was giving his arguments to Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: No, don't bring Arjuna now. Just speak on commonsense platform. As soon as we bring Arjuna, they think it is sectarian. We are talking on human common sense. What is advancement of knowledge?

Prabhupada Visits Palace and Garden -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Discuss on further.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They may say though that even the human beings, the necessities are there, eating, sleeping, mating and defending.

Prabhupāda: Everyone is doing. What is your advancement of knowledge? The bird is chirping, dancing, they're living, they are sleeping, they have got sex. So everyone is doing. What is your advancement of knowledge?

Kīrtanānanda: We carry out these activities in relationship with the eternal soul. So that by performing the activities one is gaining knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Provided you have got the knowledge of the soul, then you are advanced than the birds and beasts. Otherwise, where is the advancement? Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The human beings, they can inquire about the spirit soul. These birds, beasts, they cannot.

Kīrtanānanda: Then we find so many purported religious people. Just like Christians, they may say "Well, I believe in the soul," but nonetheless they are going on with their materialistic civilization.

Prabhupāda: That means you do not know seriously what is soul. You have simply an idea, but you do not know in detail. Just like they say, the Christians, "God is great." But they do not know who is God and what is the meaning of greatness. That they do not know. They accept this theoretically or religious sentimentally, "God is great." Just like your state says, "In God We Trust." As soon as I inquire what kind of trust and to whom, there is no reply. That means they do not know what is God, what is trust. As a matter of slogan they write, that's all. Even the state heads, and what to speak of the nonsense ordinary citizens. Seriously taking, it is very important question. They should have reply. But they do not know how to reply.

Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Pradyumna:

sa niścayena yoktavyo

yogo 'nirviṇṇa-cetasā

saṅkalpa-prabhavān kāmāṁs

tyaktvā sarvān aśeṣataḥ

manasaivendriya-grāmaṁ

viniyamya samantataḥ

Translation: "One should engage oneself in the practice of yoga with undeviating determination and faith. One should abandon, without exception, all material desires born of false ego and thus control all the senses on all sides by the mind." Purport: "The yoga practitioner should be determined and should patiently prosecute the practice without deviation. One should be sure of success at the end and pursue this course with great perseverance, not becoming discouraged if there is any delay in the attainment of success. Success is sure for the rigid practitioner. Regarding bhakti-yoga, Rūpa Gosvāmī says: utsāhān niścayād dhairyāt tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt, saṅga-tyāgāt sato vṛtteḥ ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati (Upadeśāmṛta 3). 'The process of bhakti-yoga can be executed successfully with full-hearted enthusiasm, perseverance, and determination by following the prescribed duties in the association of devotees and by engaging completely in activities of goodness.' As for determination, one should follow the example of the sparrow who lost her eggs in the waves of the ocean. A sparrow laid her eggs on the shore of the ocean, but the big ocean carried away the eggs on its waves. The sparrow became very upset and asked the ocean to return her eggs. The ocean did not even consider her appeal. So the sparrow decided to dry up the ocean. She began to pick out the water in her small beak, and everyone laughed at her for her impossible determination. The news of her activity spread, and at last Garuḍa, the gigantic bird carrier of Lord Viṣṇu, heard it. He became compassionate toward his small sister bird, and so he came to see the sparrow. Garuḍa was very pleased by the determination of the small sparrow, and he promised to help. Thus Garuḍa at once asked the ocean to return her eggs lest he himself take up the work of the sparrow. The ocean was frightened at this, and returned the eggs. Thus the sparrow became happy by the grace of Garuḍa. Similarly, the practice of yoga, especially bhakti-yoga in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, may appear to be a very difficult job, but if anyone follows the principles with great determination, the Lord will surely help, for God helps those who help themselves."

Prabhupāda: Now questions?

Devotee (1): So is there ever, for someone whose determination wavers and slackens here and there, is there ever a point where the neophyte devotee is in danger of just forgetting everything and falling, tumbling completely back?

Prabhupāda: Everyone is neophyte. He should practice determination, that's all. If he cannot practice, then why should he enter into this association? Let him remain aloof. One who has entered with the determination that "I must practice," so if he cannot practice, then why this makeshow that "I belong to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. I am initiated." Why this farce? He must practice with determination that "By practicing I'll be success." That is wanted. He has no determination, why should he make a show? Dṛḍha-vrata. Bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ. Dṛḍha-vrata, that is wanted, determination. Hmm, go on. When one is determined, his success is assured. If he's not determined, then success or failure.

Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Pradyumna: Sarva-karma kṛta haya. And if one engages, if one performs service to Kṛṣṇa, then everything else becomes accomplished. Everything else becomes accomplished. If one renders service to Kṛṣṇa, then automatically everything else, one has no obligations to the material world.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise, why Kṛṣṇa will say sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66)? Because by that action everything will be done. Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam, that means He is cheating? There are so many other occupations, say veda-dharma, samāja-dharma, brāhmaṇa-dharma, kṣatriya-dharma, medical dharma, lawyer dharma. You can manufacture so many occupations. Dharma means occupational duty. But if you take only one occupational duty, to serve Kṛṣṇa, all things will be included. Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. This is instruction. So to accept this principle means firm determination, firm conviction: "Yes, if I serve Kṛṣṇa, then all my other duties will be automatically done." This is firm conviction. "By one stroke, I'll kill so many birds."

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: They are free to move from one tree to another, but they don't go outside. Only complaint they are eating flowers.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Yes, they are eating all the flowers.

Prabhupāda: They are also trained, they are not afraid. They are sitting, you go, they are not afraid. They have been trained up that "We are at home." That animals and any birds can be trained. Just like these cows, they know that all of you are friends. Animals can understand. Even if you can make friends with the tigers and lions. Yes. I have seen it. In that New York exhibition, one man was showing me. He was embracing the lion and playing like dog. I've seen it.

Hari-śauri: That used to be a circus trick as well. They used to put their heads in the lion's mouth.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: As long as the lion is well fed, you can put your head in his mouth, but if you don't feed him, then it is dangerous.

Prabhupāda: Naturally, if he's animal. They can understand that he's giving you food, he's my friend. The love, friendship, everything is there, even in animals.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Pradyumna:

na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo

jagat-pavitraṁ pragṛṇīta karhicit

tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham uśanti mānasā

na yatra haṁsā niramanty uśikkṣayāḥ

(SB 1.5.10)

"Those words which do not describe the glories of the Lord, who alone can sanctify the atmosphere of the whole universe, are considered by saintly persons to be like unto a place of pilgrimage for crows. Since the all-perfect persons are inhabitants of the transcendental abode, they do not derive any pleasure there." Purport. "Crows and swans are not birds of the same feather because of their different mental attitudes. The fruitive workers or passionate men are compared to the crows, whereas the all-perfect saintly persons are compared to the swans. Crows take pleasure in a place where garbage is thrown out, just as the passionate fruitive workers take pleasure in wine and women and places for gross sense pleasure. The swans do not take pleasure in the places where crows are assembled for conferences and meetings. They are instead seen in the atmosphere of natural scenic beauty, where there are transparent reservoirs of water nicely decorated with stems of lotus flowers in variegated colors of natural beauty. That is the difference between the two classes of birds. Nature has influenced different species of life with different mentalities, and it is not possible to bring them up into the same rank and file. Similarly there are different kinds of literature for different types of men of different mentality. Mostly the market literatures which attract men of the crow's categories are literatures containing refuse remnants of sensuous topics. They are generally known as mundane talks in relation with the gross body and subtle mind. They are full of subject matter described in decorative language full of mundane similies and metaphorical arrangements. Yet with all that, they do not glorify the Lord. Such poetry and prose on any subject matter is considered decoration of a dead body. Spiritually advanced men, who are compared with the swans, do not take pleasure in such dead literatures, which are sources of pleasure for men who are spiritually dead. These literatures in the modes of passion and ignorance are distributed under different labels, but they can hardly help the spiritual urge of the human being, and thus the swanlike spiritually advanced men have nothing to do with them. Such spiritually advanced men are called also mānasa, because they always keep up the standard of transcendental voluntary service to the Lord on the spiritual plane. This completely forbids fruitive activities for gross bodily sense satisfaction or subtle speculation of the material egoistic mind. Social literary men, scientists, mundane poets, theoretical philosophers and politicians who are completely absorbed in the material advancement of sense pleasure are all dolls of the material energy. They take pleasure in a place where rejected subject matters are thrown. According to Śrīdhara Swami this is the pleasure of the prostitute hunters. But literatures which describe the glories of the Lord are enjoyed by the paramahaṁsas who have grasped the essence of human activities." When you said that transcendentally spiritually advanced men are called mānasa, that means "with the mind," because they are always thinking of?

Prabhupāda: Yes, always. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa padāravindayoḥ (SB 9.4.18). They are thinking of Kṛṣṇa.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: No. This is general demonic feeling. If you are unhappy, then I am happy. And if you are happy, then I am unhappy.

Kulādri: The devotee is described as para-duḥkha-duḥkhi. He's only distressed in seeing the distress of others.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's song is there, para-duḥkhe sukhi. That is natural. Go on.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna:

cintām aparimeyāṁ ca

pralayāntām upāśritāḥ

kāmopabhoga-paramā

etāvad iti niścitāḥ

āśā-pāśa-śatair baddhāḥ

kāma-krodha-parāyaṇāḥ

īhante kāma-bhogārtham

anyāyenārtha-sañcayān

"They believe that to gratify the senses unto the end of life is the prime necessity of human civilization. Thus there is no end to their anxiety. Being bound by hundreds and thousands of desires, by lust and anger, they secure money by illegal means for sense gratification."

Prabhupāda: Illegal.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Illegal means.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Purport. "The demoniac accept that the enjoyment of the senses is the ultimate goal of life, and this concept they maintain until death. They do not believe in life after death, and they do not believe that one takes on different types of bodies according to one's karma, or activities in this world. Their plans for life are never finished, and they go on preparing plan after plan, all of which are never finished. We have personal experience of a person of such demoniac mentality, who, even at the point of death, was requesting the physician to prolong his life for four years more because his plans were not yet complete. Such foolish people do not know that a physician cannot prolong life even for a moment. When the notice is there, there is no consideration of the man's desire. The laws of nature do not allow a second beyond what one is destined to enjoy. The demoniac person, who has no faith in God or the Supersoul within himself, performs all kinds of sinful activities simply for sense gratification. He does not know that there is a witness sitting within his heart. The Supersoul is observing the activities of the individual soul. As it is stated in the Vedic literature, the Upaniṣads, there are two birds sitting in one tree; the one is acting and enjoying or suffering the fruits of the branches, and the other is witnessing. But one who is demoniac has no knowledge of Vedic scripture, nor has he any faith; therefore he feels free to do anything for sense enjoyment, regardless of the consequences."

Prabhupāda: Now discuss any points.

Marble Shop Visit -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Oh. This land is very nice. For mung beans?

Kīrtanānanda: Yes, those are all mung beans up there. (break)

Children: Haribol!

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Kṛṣṇa Balarāma used to practice race with the birds.

Hari-śauri: Now our boys are racing with the cows.

Prabhupāda: This is childish game. This nature is there in Kṛṣṇa. This is their only school building?

Kīrtanānanda: This is not ours. This was an old school building, public school, but that is not our building.

Prabhupāda: This is not our?

Kīrtanānanda: Not ours. (break) ...looks like it might clear today.

Prabhupāda: Oh. How these logs will be used?

Kīrtanānanda: Roof.

Prabhupāda: Oh. And you have to cut into planks? No. Or beams?

Kīrtanānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Cylinder? Gas?

Kīrtanānanda: Gas. (end)

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What is that progress? Dog's jumping is progress? (laughter) Is that progress? A dog is running here and there, here and there, and you are running on the four wheels? Is that progress? That is not Vedic system. The Vedic system is that human being has got a certain amount of energy. Better energy than the animals. Better consciousness. That should be utilized for spiritual advancement. So whole Vedic system is meant for spiritual advancement. The energy is employed in another direction, not the energy is employed to compete with the dog. Therefore sometimes those who have no idea of religion, they see that the... "Hindus" is not the proper term. The Indian saintly persons, they are not busy like the dogs. Because they think the dog race is life. But actual life is spiritual progress. Therefore śāstra says,

tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido

na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ

tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukhaṁ

kālena sarvatra gabhīra-raṁhasā

(SB 1.5.18)

The human being should exert the energy for that thing which he did not get in many, many lives. Many, many lives he had been in the form of dogs or demigods or cats, birds, beasts, many. There are 8,400,000. So this transmigration is going on, but in everywhere the business is sense gratification. The dog is busy for sense gratification. Where is food, where is shelter, where is woman or man, and where is defense. And the man is also doing the same business in different forms. So this is going on, life after life. Even in small insect, this is also trying for the same thing. Same struggle, ahara-nidra-bhaya-maithunam. Bird, beast, animal, fish—everywhere the same struggle. Where is food, where is sex, and where is shelter, and how to defend. So śāstra says these things we have done in many, many lives past, and if we don't get out of this struggle for existence we'll have to do it again in many, many lives. So these things should be stopped.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Hari-śauri: When it starts to fall apart, that's when they think it's the best. I think I mentioned before, in England, the gentry, the British gentry, when they used to go hunting, shooting pheasants and partridges, afterwards they would get the dead birds and hang them in a shed outside, and then after some days, when all the skin and feathers were literally falling off, that's when they would eat it. That's when it was considered rich.

Prabhupāda: There are so many kadarya things. In Burma, they have got a system, Burmese family. In the door, there is a pot, a big pot. So whatever animal dies, put it in there and cover it. So in this way, after some years, they're decomposed, and it becomes liquid, and then it is so decomposed that if you open it, within three miles they smell. So that is mature. Then they take out the liquid and keep it in bottles. That is called naphi. And they stock it, and when there is some feast at home they'll give little that naphi, and they'll relish it.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Barbers?

Prabhupāda: Burma.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's the most...

Prabhupāda: And when you fry luci, all the other tenants will come "What you are cooking?" This is practical because we opened..., my Guru Mahārāja opened a branch in Burma in an apartment. So that Gaurāṅga who was my servant in family life, he was there. He said like this, that "When I fry puri, the ghee smell is there, so many people will come from other apartments, (whispers) "Oh, what you are cooking? What you are cooking?" And the naphi, they relish it in feast. So it is a question of taste.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Devotee: Fermentation.

Prabhupāda: It comes within few days. Why billions of years? Why should we wait for billions of years? This is nonsense. We see practically a bird can give birth to a child within few days, within a week. Why should we wait for billions of years? What kind of scientist you are? (laughter) Proposing to wait for millions... You nonsense. Who's going to accept your foolish theory? We see practically that within a week, and you say billions of years. Nonsense, stop that. Tell them, "You are nonsense, stop. Don't expose yourself any more." We see here, practically, within a week the life comes. Suppose the egg is a chemical composition. It is, it is chemical composition, that's a fact. But it gives life within a week. Why shall I wait for billions of years? Just see their foolishness. And this is being accepted as scientific.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, actually it is taught in all schools. There's a book called Molecules to Man. It's written by a very famous biologist, and it has been taught in school, saying that you come like this, from molecules, now you become human beings.

Prabhupāda: Now what...? Leave aside man. Molecules to chicken. How it is done? What is their answer?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say give enough length of time.

Prabhupāda: Why shall I give them? Here I see. Within a week, I get.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: The same thing.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "On the tenth night it develops into a form like a plum, and after that, gradually it turns into a lump of flesh or an egg, as the case may be." Purport. "The body of the soul develops in four different ways according to its different sources. One kind of body, that of the trees and plants, sprouts from the earth; the second kind of body grows from perspiration, as with flies, germs and bugs; the third kind of body develops from eggs; and the fourth develops from an embryo. This verse indicates that after emulsification of the ovum and semina, the body gradually develops either into a lump of flesh or into an egg, as the case may be. In the case of birds it develops into an egg, and in the case of animals and human beings it develops into a lump of flesh."

Prabhupāda: Then? Next verse.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:

māsena tu śiro dvābhyāṁ

bāhv-aṅghry-ādy-aṅga-vigrahaḥ

nakha-lomāsthi-carmāṇi

liṅga-cchidrodbhavas tribhiḥ

(SB 3.31.3)

Translation. "In the course of a month, a head is formed, and at the end of two months, hands, feet and other limbs take shape. By the end of three months, the nails, fingers, toes, body hair, bone and skin appear, as do the organ of generation and the other apertures in the body, namely the eyes, nostrils, ears, mouth and anus."

Prabhupāda: The same thing. Fermentation is going on, and the living entity takes a form. Then flies. And they say, from the water it is coming, flies, mosquito. The same process for development. That's all. Everything is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Nitijugdeva.(?) Deva means demigods, they are in goodness. And human being in passion, and animals in ignorance. This is general division.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What about the plants and other smaller...?

Prabhupāda: That is also animals, less, still more in dense darkness.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The other point along this line, we also wanted to, even in the same animal or bird kingdom...

Prabhupāda: No, no. You can very minutely distinguish, this is the general division. Then there is minute division. That is numbering about 8,400,000.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Under that category, that minor divisions, now let's take the animals. Even in the animal kingdom, there are some animals which are influenced...

Prabhupāda: From the animals down, it is all ignorance.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Animals down, all ignorance.

Rūpānuga: What about like the cow, little goodness in it, mixed?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So all the qualities are working, mixed up practically. But prominently like this. Here you cannot have any quality completely of that quality. Other qualities are there, but prominently that particular... Just like demigods. They also become sometimes passionate, sometimes ignorant. So in this material world it is very difficult to find out pure modes of nature in anything. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Sometimes some quality prominent, sometimes some quality is prominent. So the best thing is to become transcendental to all these qualities. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). That is devotional service. Śuddha-sattva, completely pure goodness. That is wanted.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is not the direction that we were thinking. We were thinking that we could give some specific examples. We understand that the modes of nature are mixed, but even then... Now let's take birds. A bird like swan likes to be very clean habit, likes to live in a nice environment like lotus and clean water, but on the other hand birds like eagle, very passionate, wants to...

Prabhupāda: Crow.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Crow is rather very ignorant and wants to be very dirty, whereas...

Prabhupāda: So what you will do by such study?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: By this...

Prabhupāda: Generalize the divisions, that's all. But none of the divisions are spiritual. Our aim is to come to the spiritual platform. Traiguṇya-viṣayā vedā nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna. Not that to increase goodness and keep a less quantity passion and ignorance. Be completely free from all the three qualities, that is required.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: You cannot, you cannot... What is your question?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The question is, now we want to argue that how is it possible, now you are claiming that life is coming from molecules? If you claim like that, then how is it possible that in the same species, let's say in the birds, that these qualities are spreading? Some birds we see behave like a little influenced by the modes of goodness, though it is mixed. Like swan, we are taking that example. But some are like eagle, very passionate, wants to kill small birds as their food, and on the other hand, birds like crows, they like just to be completely ignorant, or they like to survive in a dirty environment. Why? Is this possible just from the concept of molecular evolution? It's completely, it's failing. They have no explanation along those terms. So we thought to bring up these points, it will be very clear that this evolution is completely wrong. So we want to use that...

Prabhupāda: There is no question of evolution. It is already there. This is a wrong theory. The monkey is there, the man is there. The soul is going from monkey to man. It is not the evolution. Just like you have got apartment, ten rupees, five rupees, twenty rupees, thirty rupees, like that. Now, as you pay, "Come on, here." There is no question of evolution. It is already there. Jantur dehopapattaye. These dehas, these bodies, are already there. So immediately it develops a particular type of desire, "Yes, come here, sit down." First class, second class, third class, fourth class is already there. As you pay, "Yes, come here." It is not evolving; it is already there. He is transferred from one apartment to another. This has to be convinced. We don't find that monkey's body became a human body. That is not in the experience, anyone. The monkey is there, the human being is there. But the soul is going from monkey's body to human's body, or monkey's body to another body. That is by superior administration. Their theory is the body is evolving and some body is missing. Nothing is missing. Every body is there. The soul is being transferred from one body to another. Asatims caturam caiva laksams jīva jātiṣu.(?) Jāti means the form of the body. So the form of the body is already there, and the living entity is being transferred from one body to another. This is called transmigration. We have come here, not that that room developed. This room is here, that room is there, but I am transferring. Because they have no idea of soul, they are thinking that this nice room, now transform into this room or this room, transform... This is foolishness. A civil man transferred into jail—not that his civil house becomes jail. They are thinking wrongly like that, Darwin's theory. Body becoming changed. No. The different types of bodies are already there. The living entity is being transferred from one body to another. Just try to explain. So evolution you take that this apartment is better than that apartment, that apartment better than, and a living entity's going from one after another. So this is evolution. That you are now getting salary, one thousand dollar, now you get fifteen hundred dollars. So according to your qualification, you are getting.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He needs some more money. He must be rich to get a first-class apartment.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but so far arrangement, just like Western hotels, everything is so complete. They know what a first-class man wants. So expert. They have already made. You don't require to say anything, that "I want..." So complete. But the steps are already mentioned. Aquatics, then plants, vegetation, then insects, reptiles, then birds, then beasts. These are the gradual...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we'd like actually to bring out very clearly why the swan is different from a crow. What is it. What makes it different. Why a swan behaves this way and a crow behaves this way.

Prabhupāda: According to combination of these modes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's why we want to bring out, that modes of nature, that can explain so many things so nicely, the difference, but science has no background on that.

Prabhupāda: That means you have to analyze different bodies. But that is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, which apartment is better than the other apartment, there is description. Just like a dog's body is so made that two furlongs away some newcomer is coming, immediately he will bark, he can immediately understand, perceive. He can smell that "Somebody is coming who is not known to me." Is it not? So he has got that special quality. Even in animals we will find. A fish in the water, two miles away there is some enemy, they can understand by touch.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Mental concoction will be changed. Manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). Their only business is mental concoction: today it is good, tomorrow it is bad. That is mental concoction. If mind likes it, it is good; if mind does not like it, it is bad. No standard. (break)

Hari-śauri: They have hospitals for animals, if your animal gets sick.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Mostly dogs and cats, birds.

Hari-śauri: The animal that was making the noise was the man on the porch. (laughs)

Vipina: Many people have horses in the neighborhood. They have horse shows, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They spend lots of money on fancy horses, and in this way, one becomes greater than another by showing his horses. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...slam the door. The door is secure or not? (break) ...trying to find out that happiness from this body, that is mistake. That happiness is there in the spirit soul, not this body. Happiness is our right. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). By nature, we want happiness. Mistaking, where is the happiness. The living being, he is to enjoy happiness. But they are trying to give happiness to the body, which is dead. Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ (BG 2.11). The body is dead from the very beginning, but they are trying to draw happiness from the dead matter.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: Not a single problem they have solved. Can you cite that this big problem they have solved?

Rūpānuga: In fact you have said that they are creating a new problem each time.

Prabhupāda: That is the nature. You cannot solve the problem. You will create problem. If you don't live natural life, then you will create problem. Just like the other than creatures, other than human beings, they have no problems, because they are living naturally. So our human beings should also live natural life. Then his only problem is birth, death, old age, and... That he will be able to solve. That is the difference. The birds and beasts, they are living natural life, but they have no capacity to solve the problems. They are living a natural life. But the human being has the capacity to solve the problems. Real problem is birth, death, old age and disease. But they do not touch the real problem. Hmm? They avoid it because they cannot solve it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They keep it for the future. They postpone.

Prabhupāda: That is postdated check. "You take this million dollar check." "When shall I use it?" "After millions year you can cash it." This kind of propaganda no sane man will accept.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's like chemical evolution. Million years it will happen.

Prabhupāda: Billion.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Demigod means just like you or me, ordinary living being, but they are very pious. On account of their piety they have got very good post. Just like janma... There are four: to get birth in very high, aristocratic family; to become very learned scholar; to become beautiful in bodily feature. Janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrī (SB 1.8.26): high parentage, birth, to take birth in aristocratic family, in brāhmaṇa family, or very exalted royal family. This is janma. And śruta, to become very learned scholar. Janma, aiśvarya, to become very rich. Janmaiśvarya-śruta, śruta means education, and śrī, bodily beauty. These things are obtained on account of piety, pious activities. And just the opposite, low-class family, lowborn, no money, always poverty-stricken, no education, no bodily beauty, these are the results of impious activities. So the demigods means on account of their pious activities they get the situation in higher planet where the duration of life is ten thousands of years, and their one day is equal to our six months. Such ten thousands of years. Very beautiful body, facilities. There... The other day I was reading about the bodily construction of woman there. They are ever-young, the chest is very hard. (laughs) It is stated, yes. So such class of women is there, and aiśvarya, nandana-kānana, so many things. The roads are paved with pearls and jewels, not these pebbles. In the higher planetary system there is facility for higher standard of material comforts. So they get there birth and enjoy for ten thousand of years. But it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, kṣīṇe puṇye punar martya-lokaṁ viśanti. As soon as they spend up their resultant action of pious activities, then again drop down, kṣīṇe puṇye punar martya-lokaṁ viśanti. And again begins life from the grass. They fall down with rains, and then they grow as grass. Then evolutional life begins, from plant life to insect life, to insect life to bird's life.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Dr. Sharma: Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22).

Prabhupāda: Yes. Common sense. And we are practically experiencing. When the child has grown to become a young man, the mother does not cry, "Oh, my child is gone." She knows, she knows that "Here is my child. Simply he has changed his body." So this is a fact, that we are changing bodies but we are eternal. This is the conclusion. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). So unless one is properly educated, where is the talk of advancing? So this is the beginning of spiritual education, to understand that the living entity is eternal and the body is changing. And then next question will be that if the body is changing, then this body will be changed, so after my death what kind of body I am going to accept? That is education. That is education. And if I remain blind, I do not care, and next life I become a dog, then what is the value of my present education? In spite of all education, next life I am going to become a dog or tree, then what is the value of my education? That education is not. Throughout the whole world perhaps we are giving this education. Throughout the whole world, find out any institution or university where this education is given. No. Simply big, big talks. And you talk something nonsense and take laureate, Nobel Laureate. That's all. It is going on. Somebody is talking nonsense that life is produced from matter, from chemicals, and if we challenge, "All right, combine some matter in egg form and bring life," that rascal will say, "No, it will take millions of years." And if the bird is giving life in five days, why you are taking doctorate title? Give the chicken doctorate title. The rascals are simply bluffing the people. This is going on in the name of education. Can anyone produce life by a combination of chemicals? And these rascals are advertising. We challenge, "All right, not very big thing. Egg, you can see there is some white substance and yellow substance, and you are very big scientist, you find out what are the chemicals and combine it and put it under legs of the chicken or in the incubator and bring life. Otherwise, why you are talking nonsense and cheating people?" Not only cheating people, people are becoming godless. Everything is science. And the science is this, cheating, that life can be produced by chemicals.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Illegally or legally, without connection with the father there is no question of children.

Mr. Boyd: But even this is being done artificially nowadays.

Prabhupāda: But artificially means that you accept the principle. So therefore we say that here is mother, land, and here is children, the plants, trees, birds, beasts, human beings. They are all coming from the earth. So mother is there, and the children are there. Then where is the father? You cannot say, "No, without father it has come." That is not possible. Then you are talking foolish. There must be father. This is conclusion. So how you can deny God? God is accepted in every religion as the supreme father or something like that, great. And God is there. But they say "Automatically coming" and big, big words. How do they explain? How things are coming from the earth, so many plants?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is by chance.

Prabhupāda: "By chance," just see. Is that explanation? Hmm? If one head is bald-headed, why by chance it does not come again, hair? And these plants and creepers are coming by chance, just see. We have to accept this explanation? (aside:) You sit down. That is for the outsider. So this is explanation by the scientist, "By chance." Just see. How fools they are.

Morning Walk -- July 9, 1976, Washington D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes. In the..., cut off their wings. (break)

Devotee (1): ...it's true that people are getting disease and sicknesses as the result of their past activities, pious or sinful. Why is it that it appears that when there is a flu many people are inflicted with that flu? Practically everyone, indiscriminately.

Prabhupāda: All of them? Hm. "Birds of the same feather, flock together, see."

Devotee (1): (laughs) What about when it happens amongst the community of devotees or some, hepatitis, or malaria, or something of that nature?

Prabhupāda: Hm? It is also past sins.

Devotee: Purification?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (1): Well the materialists would say, "You're just accepting it that way. The reality is that you're becoming sick just like anyone else."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee (1): The scientist or materialist will say, "You're just becoming sick like anyone else, but you're saying it's just, that you're becoming purified."

Prabhupāda: Hm. What you have to do?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's a fact though, when people are suffering they're neutralizing their sinful reactions.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is the wrong there? (break)

Devotee (1): ...becoming purified from this suffering then why isn't it when we're sick, why is it that we forget Kṛṣṇa, we become disgusted, and after we are sick we don't feel any more advanced than before? (break)

Prabhupāda: ...purified, you will not be sick.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: How is this grass evolving?

Rādhāvallabha: They say that the wind blows the seeds. Or animals drop them. They also say that flying animals, like birds, came from the sea in one form.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I heard one island had just appeared sometime back from a volcano underneath the ocean in the middle of the Pacific.

Hari-śauri: There's one near Norway as well.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The scientists wanted to find out how long it would take before life appeared on this island in the middle of nowhere. So they were thinking it might take thousands of millions and billions of years, because there had been no life there to begin with. But they found that within one year it was full of so much plants, vegetation.

Prabhupāda: Just see, how rascal they are.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That should disprove all of their theories.

Prabhupāda: They speak all... That the egg will take millions of years and the chicken is bringing within five days. So why these rascals do not transfer their doctorate title to the chicken (laughter) instead of bluffing other rascals that "We are doctorate"? They should be ashamed to keep their doctorate. "Now let us transfer to the chicken; within five days there is life." Huh? What do you think? Am I right or wrong?

Hari-śauri: I am sure you are right.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Why few years? Rascaldom. Dr. Chicken is doing in five days, so why you enjoy this title? You give up. You be ashamed. You are shameless, therefore you are talking all this nonsense. You have no human sense also.

Bali-mardana: They say that in the laboratory we are working on this, and very soon we will have the answer.

Prabhupāda: That means that you are a rascal. You admit that you are a rascal. We see one sparrow bringing within few days, life. So many birds, they are bringing life within few days.

Rāmeśvara: They say there are certain chemicals in the body.

Prabhupāda: All right, you rascal, big chemist, you combine these chemicals and bring life. Why do you not do that? Simply talking millions and trillions of years just to bluff other rascals. You are a rascal and you are bluffing other rascals. That is your business, and getting high salary, that's all.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even they can take a dead body, there's no need to manufacture the body, and try and put life back into it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, give him some chemicals. So many dead bodies are being wasted. Give some chemical and let them come back in life.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Killing?

Rāmeśvara: If it is... Something that is judged by, say, the US government as criminal, would be still do it if it was for Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: No, we do not do anything which is harmful to the society. We do not do anything, not only to the human society. To the animal society, to the tree society, to the aquatic society, we do not do anything. We do not support the slaughterhouse, killing the animals. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to see every living entity on the same level. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). We are not cruel to anyone. Either he's a man or animal or tree or bird.

Interviewer: Does that take on a positive aspect as well so that by not only do I not kill animals and I don't kill men, do I, am I obliged under your system, am I obliged to actively help...

Prabhupāda: Yes, suppose if you are coming to kill me, then I must take advantage of killing you first.

Interviewer: I understand that, and obliged to go beyond.

Bali-mardana: Are you also obliged to help animals, to help other human beings.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are maintaining animals, giving them food, giving them security of life in all our farms the animals are very free.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Oh, give them this garland. (break) ...he begins with surrender. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So anyone who voluntarily offers obeisances, immediately he becomes fifty percent advanced. Because.... Who is talking? This material world means nobody wants to surrender. Everyone wants to become master: "I am the monarch of all I survey." Everyone is planning how to become a master. Therefore the struggle for existence. Nobody wants to become a servant. You know very well in European history, Napoleon wanted to become the master of all Europe. Hitler wanted also. Similarly, there were so many leaders, sometimes Roman leaders, sometimes Greek leaders, sometimes French leaders, sometimes German leaders, English leader. The whole European history is full of fighting, war. The basic idea is that everyone wanted to become master. That is the material disease. We are now discussing Bali Mahārāja. He also wanted to become master of the whole universe. So that is the material disease. Actually, master is one, Kṛṣṇa. There cannot be two masters. There is only one master, that is Kṛṣṇa, or God. But in the material world, because we have forgotten the real master, every one of us is trying to become master. This is material disease. Not only in one life, but life after life. The cats and dogs, they also want to be master. The dog, if he finds another dog coming, he immediately begins barking very loudly, "Why you are coming here?" So this mastership competition is going on life after life, sometimes as human being, sometimes as animal, sometimes as fish, aquatic, sometimes as demigod, bird. This is the whole material situation. And the difficulty is that we cannot become master, but on account of our false ambition that "I shall become master," we are becoming servants of material nature. We are acting in a certain way to become master, creating a situation, mentality, and at the time of death, when this body finishes, the mind absorbed in that mastership idea takes me to another body according to my ambition, so I become again manifest in different body to exhibit my mastership. Another chapter begins.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Pradyumna: "Only the material body of the indestructible, immeasurable and eternal living entity is subject to destruction."

Prabhupāda: Yes, the body's destructible, but the spirit soul is not destructible. When you understand this point, then we understand what is spirit, and then spiritual culture begins. Without being convinced of this spirit soul, there is no question of spiritual culture. So the spirit soul is described as eternal. And the proof is given, eternity. Just like there are so many children. They'll grow up from childhood to boyhood, from boyhood to youthhood. The body is changing. This is very practical. But the spirit soul is there, the same spirit soul which was within the womb of the mother in a small body. Then coming out of the mother's womb, the same spirit soul is there, but the body is different. In this way, the body is being situated in different status, but we know that the proprietor of the body is the same. Is there any difficulty to understand? Anyone? The body is changing, that's a fact. You are young man. You'll have to become an old man like me. That means body will change. But so far you are concerned, you are the same. So, the body changes and the spirit soul remains the same. This is to be understood first of all. What is the difficulty? First of all, you must distinguish what is spirit, what is matter. Material culture means this body is there, it requires some necessities. The body must be given something to eat. Is it not? Eating? Then the body must be given some rest, sleeping, for which we require some apartment, some place. Not we, but also even the animals, birds, they have got their nest, or the animal has got some hole or something. So eating, sleeping, and some sense gratification, sex. These are bodily necessities. But when you understand what is spirit, then we must try to find out what the spiritual necessity is. That is spiritual culture. You cannot go on with the bodily culture as spiritual culture. That is a mistake.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So this life should be utilized for purifying ourself from this designation. If you keep the designation then there is no possibility of purification. You'll get another designation. Now we are Indian or Iranian, next a sparrow or a crow or a tree or a demigod. Another designation. Just like the same, the child, a baby, on the lap of the mother, a baby, and another designation, boy, another designation young man, another designation, old man. But the spirit soul is the same. He's simply changing designations. So freedom means freedom from all these designations. I am spirit, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. I am spirit soul, my business is spiritual activity. So long we want to keep designation, you'll have to accept material body and suffer. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to educate people how to become free from designations. Therefore we accept from any group. If I think that he is under designation... But our business is to make him free from the designation. We therefore welcome anyone. He may come with designation, but if he lives with us, he follows our rules and regulations, he becomes free from designation. And this so-called designated religious system will not help us. If we keep ourself on the designated platform—I am American, I am Indian, I am Iranian, I am Hindu, I am Muslim, I am Christian, I am Buddhist—then we have to continue in that designation. There is no question of freedom. That requires tapasya. That designationless status is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. And the opposite of brahma-bhūtaḥ is jīva-bhutaḥ. Jīva-bhutaḥ, there are so many jīvas, living entities. The dog is thinking, "I am dog." And the bird is thinking, "I am bird." The man is thinking, "I am Hindu, I am Muslim." So this designation, you may be a dog designation or Hindu designation, or Muslim, they are the same. There is no difference. Maybe some degrees. But one has to become designationless. That is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). Then bhakti. When one is designationless. If he wants to keep his designation, then there is no question of bhakti. The bhakti line is so nice that if you take to bhakti line, automatically you'll be designationless. Now you have to decide whether you want to keep designation or become free from designation.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: It belongs to God. This is accepted. And God... And everyone is God's son. Therefore as the son can enjoy the father's property, they can enjoy. But they cannot claim proprietorship. As directed by the father, one can enjoy the father's property, but he cannot claim that it is his property. This is the correct position. And the king is supposed to be representative of God to see that things are rightly going on, that's all. Nobody's unnecessarily claiming proprietorship. He should remind that "It is God's property. You can utilize it as far as you need; you don't take more. Whatever you need you take, but you cannot take more." Like the birds and beasts they are living. They do not make stock. They need to eat something, they'll eat some fruit, then they go away. When they are hungry they will go another tree. They never claim that "This is my tree, this is my fruit." This is natural. If you put a bag of rice here, the birds will come, they will eat some grains and go away. But a man, he'll go and try to stock something, and he will take more.

Hari-śauri: But they say that that's intelligence, to make preparation for the future.

Prabhupāda: Yes, to steal God's property is certainly intelligence. Very good intelligence. They must suffer. Must be punished. For this intelligence they must be punished. (men talking in background) So if they want to hear, these men...?

Hari-śauri: Their idea is that God may have made everything, but now it's for us to divide up and enjoy between us.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Hari-śauri: Not that he has seen. He's not seen anyone.

Prabhupāda: Nobody. Do you think your king, Shah, is also happy? No. His sons, daughter, they are happy? No. He is also anxious how to keep his position, exalted position, he has to makes many plans, satisfy so many ministers, so many. He is also full of anxiety. And a small bird eating some grain here, he's attracted for the grain, but he's looking this way, "Oh, here is a man, here is man, he may not do some harm to me." So everyone is full of anxiety. Nobody can be free from anxiety. That is not possible. Sadā samudvigna dhiyam asad-grahāt (SB 7.5.5). Because we have adopted this material life, asad, our mind should always be full of anxiety. Nobody can be free from anxiety. That is not possible. Sadā samudvigna dhiyam asad-grahāt. Because we have accepted this temporary body, we have to be full of anxiety. This is law of nature. And if we act in this life to create another material body, then our all activities are spoiled. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. He did not ask about the constitutional position of himself, he simply engaged himself in dog's place(?). Then whatever activities he has done, it is simply defeat. Next body what he's going to get he does not know. If you become a minister in this life and next life you become a dog, then what is the benefit? Can anyone challenge this? "No, no, I'm not going to become a dog." Nobody can say. You are going to change the body—tatha dehāntara prāptir—now what kind of body you'll get, that will depend on nature, not on yourself. If you go to a tailor's shop, so you have to pay for if you want a better garment. Similarly, what kind of body you will get, that will depend on your work. So in this life you may be a prime minister, but if you have worked like menial dogs and hogs, then you are going to get body of a dog and hog. That is nature's gift. You cannot check it. You have no hand on the administration of the nature. That is not possible. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). If you have infected some disease, you must suffer from that. This is nature's law.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: You'll have to show a practical example.

Prabhupāda: Yes, when you talking of practical things and you bring argument, "perhaps," then you are rascal, immediately. Give practical example, no "perhaps," "maybe," no. That argument will not do. These rascals are giving that argument, "perhaps," "maybe." That is not argument. Be practical when you talk of practical things. Practically you do not see that without father there is any child born, no. Either in the animals or in the human beings, or in the birds, everywhere. Seed-giving father is there.

Hari-śauri: Freud's idea, Freud admitted that, that we are all like children, but his philosophy was that the children have to grow up and go out and look after themselves. They can't remain dependent on the father forever, so they have to grow up and face the world.

Prabhupāda: That is another rascal. Because everyone, every living entity is dependent on the father's arrangement. God is the supreme father. He was a Christian or not, Freud? What he was?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: He was mainly Freudian, he believed in himself.

Hari-śauri: He had his own philosophy.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: He was Christian.

Prabhupāda: Christian. So why the Christian go and, go to the father, "Give us our daily bread"? That means that you are dependent on father. How you can say independent?

Hari-śauri: But that's the point, that we have to grow up and become dependent on our own work.

Prabhupāda: No, the Vedic injunction is eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. God means He's supplying the necessities of all his sons. That is God. And that is practical. You are dependent. The animals, they are dependent on grass. So wherefrom the grass is coming? Why that land is deserted and this land is green place. Can you change it? Why you don't change the desert to be green? So if you think that "I'm living on animal, I don't care for grass," but the animal depending on grass, and the grass is depending on God's mercy. So how you can say you are not dependent on God? You are dependent. But because you are a rascal fraud, you want to cheat and become a Freud, that's all. You are a great fraud, therefore you're talking like that. You are dependent on God in every step. You cannot be independent. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ ahaṅkāra, find out this verse.

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: ...the existence of God. There must be. How can you deny existence of God? It is not possible. Now, if you are convinced that there is God, then the next question will be What is that God? Is He a living being or a stone? What is the nature of God or the features of God? Whether He has... So many things we have to study about. But first of all we have to accept there is God. God, what kind of thing is that God, that is called brahma-jijñāsā. That is the beginning of philosophy. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. What is God, what is His nature, what is His feature, what does He do—these things can be inquired by human beings. A dog cannot inquire. So if a human being is not interested in these things, he's a dog. Do you agree or not? If a human being is not interested to know about God, then he's dog. This is our first charge. Now let the agnostic refute. Hmm? In human life... There are varieties of living entities, so many. The trees are also living entities, but it is standing, it has no other capacity. The birds are there, they're little improved, they're flying, they can move from one tree to another, but they have no capacity to inquire about God. There are so many insects, they are also living entity, but they do not inquire about God. It is only human being, he can inquire. That particular facility is given.

Shahrezad: Why...

Prabhupāda: Because it is necessary.

Shahrezad: No, I mean the difference between human being and the animals.

Harikeśa: Why is that?

Prabhupāda: No, the first thing is that we have to accept there is God. Now, to inquire about God, this facility is given to the human being. So you must utilize it. Otherwise you are not human. Your business is, by nature's creation, your business is. The human being... Just like you dress yourself nicely, you comb your hair. That is possible by the human being. An animal may have big hair, but it cannot dress because he has no intelligence. So if you have got intelligence, if you utilize it, then life's profit is there. If you don't utilize it, then you remain lower-grade animal. So in the human form of life, the preliminary is that he can inquire about God, he can understand about God. So if he does not utilize his life for that purpose, then he is animal. So Aniruddha Prabhu requires spectacle?

Morning Walk -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: This is described in the Vedas, Vaitaraṇī, cross from the material to the spiritual world.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: And it is fire in both sides, and it is like a razor edge, it could be very thin. And the saintly persons close their eyes and pass it. Kṛṣṇa makes them pass.

Prabhupāda: Similar description is there, bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām (SB 10.14.58). Bhavāmbudhiḥ, the great ocean of material nescience, it becomes vatsa-padam, just like the water contained in the hoof impression of a calf. Bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ param. Exactly animal civilization. Animal does not know what is future, what is past, what is going to happen, nothing. The human civilization has become like that. Professor Kotovsky said, "Swamiji, after finishing this body, everything is finished." He's a big professor in Moscow. This is their civilization. What do they explain about the lower animals? Wherefrom they come, the birds, beasts, trees, insects?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Where, in Koran?

Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say the modern scientists.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Modern scientists. One theory is the evolutionary process.

Prabhupāda: So wherefrom evolution begins?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They don't know how it began. Some say it came from water. How does life begin? Nobody really knows.

Hari-śauri: They say there has to be certain combination of gases, ammonia, water, some hydrogen.

Prabhupāda: They cannot make this gas and combine?

Hari-śauri: This is the way they are testing for life on Mars. This is one of the tests.

Prabhupāda: No, why Mars? In their laboratory they can make gas and mix.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: "I am the Self, O Guḍākeśa, seated in the hearts of all creatures. I am the beginning, the middle and the end of all beings. Of the Ādityas I am Viṣṇu, of lights I am the radiant sun, I am Marīci of the Maruts, and among the stars I am the moon. Of the Vedas I am the Sāma-veda; of the demigods I am Indra; of the senses I am the mind; and in living beings I am the living force, knowledge. Of all the Rudras I am Lord Śiva; of the Yakṣas and Rākṣasas I am the lord of wealth (Kuvera); of the Vasus I am fire (Agni); and of the mountains I am Meru. Of priests, O Arjuna, know Me to be the chief, Bṛhaspati, the lord of devotion. Of generals I am Skanda, the lord of war; and of bodies of water I am the ocean. Of the great sages I am Bhṛgu; of vibrations I am the transcendental om. Of sacrifices I am the chanting of the holy names (japa), and of immovable things I am the Himalayas. Of all trees I am the holy fig tree, and amongst sages and demigods I am Nārada. Of the singers of the gods (Gandharvas) I am Citraratha, and among perfected beings I am the sage Kapila. Of horses know Me to be Uccaiḥśravā, who rose out of the ocean, born of the elixir of immortality; of lordly elephants I am Airāvata, and among men I am the monarch. Of weapons I am the thunderbolt; among cows I am the surabhi, givers of abundant milk. Of procreators I am Kandarpa, the god of love, and of serpents I am Vāsuki, the chief. Of the celestial Nāga snakes I am Ananta; of the aquatic deities I am Varuṇa. Of departed ancestors I am Aryamā, and among the dispensers of law I am Yama, the lord of death. Among the Daitya demons I am the devoted Prahlāda; among subduers I am time; among the beasts I am the lion; and among birds I am Garuḍa, the feathered carrier of Viṣṇu. Of purifiers I am the wind; of the wielders of weapons I am Rāma; of fishes I am the shark; and of flowing rivers I am the Ganges. Of all creations I am the beginning and the end and also the middle, O Arjuna. Of all sciences I am the spiritual science of the Self, and among logicians I am the conclusive truth. Of letters I am the letter A, and among compounds I am the dual word. I am also inexhaustible time, and of creators I am Brahmā, whose manifold faces turn everywhere. I am all-devouring death, and I am the generator of all things yet to be. Among women I am fame, fortune, speech, memory, intelligence, faithfulness and patience. Of hymns I am the Bṛhat-sāma sung to the Lord Indra, and of poetry I am the Gāyatrī verse, sung daily by brāhmaṇas. Of months I am November and December, and of seasons I am flower-bearing spring. I am also the gambling of cheats, and of the splendid I am the splendor. I am victory, I am adventure, and I am the strength of the strong. Of the descendants of Vṛṣṇi I am Vāsudeva, and of the Pāṇḍavas I am Arjuna. Of the sages I am Vyāsa, and among great thinkers I am Uśanā. Among punishments I am the rod of chastisement, and of those who seek victory, I am morality. Of secret things I am silence, and of the wise I am wisdom. Furthermore, O Arjuna, I am the generating seed of all existences. There is no being—moving or unmoving—that can exist without Me. O mighty conqueror of enemies, there is no end of My divine manifestation. What I have spoken to you is but a mere indication of My infinite opulences. Know that all beautiful, glorious, and mighty creations spring but from a spark of My splendor. But what need is there, Arjuna, for all this detailed knowledge? With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe."

Prabhupāda: That's it. This is greatness. So we should not simply be satisfied God is great. We must try to know how great He is. Then our God consciousness will be fixed up. It's all right?

Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:

Indian devotee: Especially Prabhupāda, when there is a famine, where there is no more food... They had big famine...

Prabhupāda: Food, that is punishment. It is not the... Famine is punishment from the side of nature. She'll not supply to the rākṣasas. That is a punishment. Otherwise, there is no question of population. You may have as many... Just like the birds and beasts. They do not care for... They have got enough food. But they do not violate the laws of the nature.

Harikeśa: One may argue that in nature there is this leveling out of the species, that one species kills another off so that the population is maintained at the proper level.

Prabhupāda: No species killed by another species. It is rascal proposal.

Harikeśa: Well, members of the species are killed by...

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. Jīvasya jīva... jivo jīvanam. One animal is eating another animal. That is another thing. But that does not mean species finished. That is nonsense.

Harikeśa: No, I didn't mean. So the human being, the animals can't kill off the human being so that the people have to do it.

Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that?

Harikeśa: The people have to do it to maintain the population level. We have to kill some of the children so that it doesn't become out of control, like the animals do it.

Prabhupāda: You are less than animal. You are greatest animal. You want to kill your children.

Morning Walk -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Devotee: You stub your toe and it gives so much pain just for something so small.

Prabhupāda: That you are eating? (pause) So water is wasted.

Hari-śauri: Yes, it's dripping still.

Indian man (3): Tap must not be working. (break)

Devotee: ...so the front is always full of water for people, birds to take. But all the water is dripping over the side and it's being wasted on the ground. (break)

Prabhupāda: Rādhā-Vallabha, it is offered to Rādhā-Vallabha.

Hari-śauri: What's that made from, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: There's a kind of puri with some filling, dāl.

Hari-śauri: Ah, kacuri?

Prabhupāda: It is not kacuri.

Devotee: Prabhupāda, you've taught so... (break) ...instruction for cooking this prasādam.

Prabhupāda: I have seen, I have seen. In our family, I know. That's all. But from my childhood it is my nature, if somebody is preparing, I see it.

Garden Conversation -- September 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And the mosquito is with the pilot. They are manufacturing jumbo 747 plane. It requires a pilot separately. But Kṛṣṇa is manufacturing an airplane, mosquito—everything complete, with pilot. This is inconceivable. You can manufacture a big airplane. The pilot is separate. You cannot manufacture the pilot. Kṛṣṇa is manufacturing not only the smallest airplane, but with a pilot. This is inconceivable.

Caraṇāravindam: Also he makes those, you wrote in the Bhāgavatam there are those giant birds that fly in space.

Prabhupāda: And there will be hundreds and thousands mosquitos, they will fly. There will be no accident.

Hari-śauri: No collisions.

Prabhupāda: No. Anywhere it will be... Not only flies. The birds, when they flock together, so there is no collision. And they very forcibly go like this, this, this, this, all together, but you won't find one accident. And this is Kṛṣṇa's inconceivable energy. What you can do? You cannot fly hundreds of planes at a time. There will be at least three, four accidents.

Garden Conversation -- September 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Formerly I used to see three, four, more than four flies going together. Nowadays I do not see.

Caraṇāravindam: Flies.

Prabhupāda: No, aeroplanes. During wartime when they used to come to bombard they used to come in four, five together because the enemies, they used to shot down. So if one is shot down the other will be bombing.

Caraṇāravindam: You wrote in the Bhāgavatam, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that in outer space there are those giant birds like eagle. Very, very big. Giant size. Enormous.

Prabhupāda: They go from one planet to another.

Caraṇāravindam: It is like a big plane. Bigger than jet.

Prabhupāda: And while flying they lay down eggs. And the eggs, while falling down, they become birds. By the, what is called?

Hari-śauri: Friction?

Prabhupāda: No, no. When they, what it is called. Velocity of falling down, it becomes fomented, and then the birds come out. Just like parasites. No? Parachute?

Hari-śauri: Yes, parachute.

Prabhupāda: While falling down, it opens. This is God's creation. Inconceivable. And that aeroplane, flying machine, is so perfect.

Garden Conversation -- September 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: Yes, parachute.

Prabhupāda: While falling down, it opens. This is God's creation. Inconceivable. And that aeroplane, flying machine, is so perfect.

Caraṇāravindam: And it will find its own food.

Prabhupāda: There are birds who can take away the elephant for eating. Such big birds. They can carry elephant like a small rat.

Caraṇāravindam: Is such a bird the bird that was a servant of Sītā?

Prabhupāda: And monkey-eating birds I have seen in Los Angeles. They go very high on the top of a tree and capture a monkey. And take him high and drop him. As soon as he falls he dies, then again comes down and eats it.

Caraṇāravindam: We need one of those birds here to capture these monkeys.

Prabhupāda: There are so many wonderful creations. That is God's inconceivable energy. (end)

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1976, Vrndavana:

Haṁsadūta: I've written him that Prabhupāda suggested he might come and do it.

Prabhupāda: He knows the art, how to do it. (break) ...unique, American. What is this American? I could not reach. (?) (break) ...conditioner, to keep the air conditioner. There was (indistinct).

Haṁsadūta: In some temples which are built like this with a courtyard, they put a screen over the top so that the birds don't come in. Can we do that or is that because...

Prabhupāda: No, monkeys.

Haṁsadūta: Oh, for monkeys. It keeps the birds out too. We have so many birds that come in. They sleep in the tree and they pass stool all over the place.

Hari-śauri: Pigeons too.

Haṁsadūta: Yes pigeons and small birds. In the lamps they are, in the fans they are.

Prabhupāda: Pigeons will come. (laughs) They'll enter with this.

Devotee: In the grills.

Garden Conversation -- October 9, 1976, Aligarh:

Prabhupāda: And he has called Padma-locana. Similarly, this harijana movement is a farce because they remain the Cāmāra and Bhangis, and still they are called harijana. The same thing. No locana, but padma-locana. Everyone has got right. You can become the most advanced devotee. There is no hindrance. But they must be trained up as harijana. Not that artificially you simply rubberstamp harijana. Therefore that movement is failure. We have no objection to make anyone... Kṛṣṇa says māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Pāpa-yoni, lower class. Janma-aiśvarya-śruta-śrī, these four things, to take birth in high class family, janma, aiśvarya, to become very rich, and śruta, to become very learned scholar, and śrī, beautiful, these four things are there whose background is pious life. Otherwise, not possible. Janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrī (SB 1.8.26). So those who are just the opposite—means not born in very high class family, not... They say "accident." No, it is not accident. According to śāstra, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1), there is superior examination. Yamarāja is there. Now, this man is now dead, this soul is now changing body. What kind of body he'll get next? That is judged by the superior authority. Just like in the office a person is promoted. So his record is examined, how he has worked honestly to the interest of the establishment. All this consideration. Then he's given increment of salary or promotion to higher post. This is common sense. So it is not accident. A man is born from the very beginning, a rich man's son. That does not mean that it is accident. Daiva-netreṇa. By a superior arrangement he is given the chance to take birth in a aristocratic family or rich family or educated family or in a beautiful family. There is... But this is, so far it is concerned, it is body, and our movement, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is not of the body. Body is superfluous. It is spiritual movement. Kṛṣṇa therefore begins, asmin dehe, dehī. This body is external. Just like dress. We are having this dress. I am not this dress. I am within the dress. Similarly, the spirit soul is within this body, and spiritual movement means about that spirit soul. Not of this body. So that spirit soul is completely different from this body and... Just like a gentleman is gentleman. One may have a different type of dress. Not that everyone is expected of the same dress. But within the dress, a gentleman is gentleman. Similarly, although there are so many varieties of bodies, within the body the soul is pure part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. So the spiritual movement means to take up the spirit soul within the body and to elevate him from the conditioned life. That is spiritual movement. He has been put into condition. So that action can be taken without any hindrances. Without any impediment. Ahaituky apratihatā. That verse I was speaking yesterday, that without any cause, without any impediments, the soul can be raised by the process. Kṛṣṇa says māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Never mind one is born in low class family, poor, ugly, uneducated family. It doesn't matter. But he can be raised. What is the process? Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya. "One has to take shelter of Me." That is Kṛṣṇa conscious movement. We are giving equal chance everyone. It doesn't matter what he is. Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. Pāpa-yoni means low class, poor, uneducated, ugly, no education. That is pāpa-yoni. So they can be raised. Kṛṣṇa says. How? Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya. If he is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore it is the topmost welfare activities in the human society. Anyone can be raised. There are different grades of life all over the world. Some are black, some are white, some are ugly, some are poor. Varieties. Some are trees, some are plants, some are aquatics, some are birds, beasts, insects. Different varieties of life, 8,400,000. Some of them demigods, Brahmā, Indra, Candra.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Mr. Malhotra: Drop, when drop submerges with the ocean...

Prabhupāda: I will give you practical example. Just like you take red water, colored water. So put into the sea, does this mean that sea becomes red? That little spot may be for the time being. Besides that, merging, this is the philosophy of the Māyāvādīs. Actually that is superficial. Just like a bird, green bird, enters into the green tree. You see that bird is vanished. Because the tree is green and the bird is green, you do not know the separate identification. But the bird is there, separate identification. It is not the bird has become zero. A airplane goes to the sky, after some time you don't find the airplane. That doesn't mean the airplane has no more identity, separate. It is separate. It is your defective eyes that you cannot see, that it has got separate existence. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that, "I, you and all these kings who are assembled here, we existed in the past, we are now existing, and we shall exist in the future." That means individual existence will continue. He explains past, present and future. So where is imagination?

Mr. Malhotra: No imagination. But paraṁ pada that is nirvāṇa, or whatever...

Prabhupāda: Yes, paraṁ pada is just like you fly in the sky, go very high. So from here we cannot see that you are separately existing. But you are separately existing. It is my deficient eyes that I see that you are not separate.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So we have got also the same theory. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. (break) ...within water. So where is the difference? We also admit the forms of life begins from the ocean. Then plants. As soon as the water is dried, there are plants, trees. Sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. Sthāvara means "the life which cannot move." So the trees, plants, grass, they cannot move. Then insects, then reptiles, then birds, then beast, then human being. In this way the living entity is changing body. So what is the difficulty?

Devotee (1): But they say that the human body developed right from these other bodies. In other words...

Prabhupāda: Evolution, from beast human body has come. That is the difference? Even there is difference, what is the idea?

Devotee (1): Well, they maintain that therefore man was not created by God, but simply by chemicals.

Prabhupāda: Rascals! Wherefrom the life came first? Wherefrom the life came from? When you find life in the water, wherefrom this life came?

Devotee (1): They say originally it came from chemicals that came together.

Prabhupāda: Rascal! Create from chemicals. Otherwise, beat them with shoes in their mouth. Why you talk nonsense? Create from chemicals, life. (break) What do they say?

Devotee (1): They say they're working on it.

Prabhupāda: Then be beaten with shoes. When you're successful, then say. Otherwise, I shall beat you with shoes. That's all. That is your punishment. You have not come to the experimental stage, and you are talking, "This is science." Science is experiment and observation. Unless the experiment is practical, practical science... It will be accepted as science when the experiment is successful. Not before that. That is scientific method. First of all, observe. It may be happening like this. But that "maybe" should be confirmed by experiment. Then it is science. Even in colleges there is practical examination. Theoretical and practical. So unless... "We are trying." Everyone will say, "I am trying." "I am trying to become millionaire." When you become millionaire, then say that you are millionaire. You are trying for becoming millionaire and you say, "I am millionaire."

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). (break) ...that sound all the time. (sounds of birds)

Girirāja: Do they have many birds in Bhuvaneśvara?

Prabhupāda: Wherever there are nice trees, there will be birds.

Guru dāsa: Girirāja is asking, he thinks there are more birds in Bombay than in Bhuvaneśvara. Girirāja Prabhu is stating there is more birds in Bombay.

Dr. Patel: There are more crows in Bombay than any other place. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: No, no. They are also birds.

Dr. Patel: There are very more filthier, for the crows, to clean.

Guru dāsa: So Prabhupāda should go then.

Dr. Patel: No, you see, if the good people is there, up there, you know the filth disappears.

Guru dāsa: That's what the śāstra says. The sun dries up urine in a filthy place.

Dr. Patel: So he must be here. Another argument and he will answer.

Guru dāsa: Yes, but there is also urine in Bhuvaneśvara. Indian doctor. In Bhuvaneśvara you are going to have any plan for making a temple?

Prabhupāda: What is my plan, that is always there. That is to print books and construct temples. Throughout the whole world this plan is going on. Fifty percent construction, fifty percent printing books. Whatever I get money, I give him. That's all. I am the same beggar. Either it comes ten lakhs or fifty lakhs, ten crores.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Another place, Vaiṣṇava says, either he is businessman, or doctor, anyone, they are all madmen.

piśācī pāile yena mati-cchana haya

māyā-grasta jīvera haya se bhāva udaya

(Hindi) Ghostly haunted. And he talks all nonsense. Similarly, anyone who is in the material condition, he is a ghost-haunted man. So he can talk anything, all nonsense. Piśācī pāile yena... This is applicable to everyone. Anyone who has got this material body, he's ghostly-haunted. Therefore we are explaining that verse, that first treatment is how to get out of the clutches of this ghost which has attacked everyone. So ghostly haunted man, he's himself a victim of the ghost. How he can treat other men? He's also haunted by the ghost. This is the position. You may, one may say, "I am haunted by better ghost." That may be, but every one of us ghostly haunted. And śāstra says this is treatment. Tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā, yasmād sattvaṁ śuddhyed (SB 5.5.1). Sattva, our existence, is polluted. (break) ...the skin and bone. The skin and bone will continue so long I am in the material condition of life. Either bird's skin... Just like who was talking of evolution, who was? This disease of skin and bone will continue. Because the spirit soul is not the bone and skin. The Darwin's theory, he is putting that the bone is changing. The bone is not changing. You get different bones in different life. I am changing my position. I am going from one apartment to another apartment. The apartment not changing. I am changing apartment. That is the difference between Darwin's theory and our theory. They are thinking the apartment is becoming another apartment. No. The apartments are already there. I am entering different apartments as I can pay for it. That is karma. According to my karma, I am sometimes residing in one apartment, in another apartment. This is going on.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Crows.

Dr. Patel: Why crows?

Prabhupāda: Crows will never come to a nice place. They'll go to the filthy place, where everything rubbish is thrown out. The crow will take advantage of it: "Oh, here is enjoyable thing." Tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham. So we have been educated to become vāyasa, crows, useless black bird. There are other birds also, but these... Amongst the birds, these crows are most disliked by everyone. So our present literature and taste of literature is like that, crows. "Ka, ka, ka, ka." Even amongst the birds, they'll find swan, white swan. And they're black crows. Nature's division is so nice. Na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo pragṛṇīta karhicit tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham uśanti mānasā (SB 1.5.10). That is rejected by the mānasā. Mānasā means the birds who live in the māna-sarovara, just like ducks and swans.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: They won't understand.

Prabhupāda: Mass of people, let them chant and dance and take prasāda. So these centers are being opened for mass movement as well as class movement. In the village there is... Hardly you'll get good, educated men. So there is no question of philosophy. Given them chance of chanting and take prasāda. It is useless to talk before them our philosophy. They'll never understand. But they will understand prasādam. Prasādam is so nice. If there are few grains of prasāda, even the crows will come, the condemned bird. (laughs) He will also come. You do like this. So if this has been settled, do that.

Haṁsadūta: I think Mahāṁsa would rather manage the farm himself.

Prabhupāda: Then... You think... I do not know, but manage somehow or other. I want that prasāda distribution must go on. People should come in numbers, increase. Whatever you can produce, spend for that purpose. We are not going to produce foodstuff for our starving... It is for them. When they'll understand, they'll work voluntarily: "Yes, it's for us." We are not capitalists.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Hari-śauri: Not so much. It was though, formerly, very strongly.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Aristocratic will never live... Even in America, they don't like to live with the blacks.

Rāmeśvara: No.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) That child...? So that separation... Crows will not like to live with the ducks and white swans. And white swans will not like to live with the crows. That is natural division. "Birds of the same feather flock together."

Jagadīśa: And honest men don't like to associate with thieves and criminals.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is natural. We are not interested even with these daily newspapers. We are interested Bhagavad-gītā. We don't keep any news. We know the dogs are barking. That's all. But that does not mean we have to mix with the dogs.

Jagadīśa: If you know that someone is committing criminal activities, then if you associate with them, you'll also become implicated.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: Of course, if we tell them that, then they will think that we are anarchists.

Prabhupāda: First of all you say that we want to stop this nonsense, that is the name of education producing hippies. We want to stop it. You may take us whatever you like. We want gentlemen, not this hogs' and dogs' naked dance. You are hogs and dogs; you accept. But we cannot accept. We are birds of the same feather. We are cleansed. Let them become hogs and dogs. But the civilized(?) thing must go on. So we want to stop this. Is that education?

Rāmeśvara: Now they say if we are thinking of our members to be gentlemen, then why is it when they go to the airports they are bothering so many people?

Prabhupāda: They are not bothering; they are educating. You take... A rascal, when he is advised... A thief when he's advised, "Kindly do not become a thief," he takes it botheration, but that is good advice.

Rāmeśvara: They say it is invasion of privacy.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Why privacy?

Rāmeśvara: They say every man has the right to think the way he wants.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore I have go the right to think like that.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Jagadīśa: His disciples simply...

Hari-śauri: He gave the example that "The birds, they do not try to make a living, but God is feeding them. So do you not think God will help feed if you go out and do His work?" That is what he said to them. (indistinct) And they say they are Christians, but actually the real Christianity is what we are practicing.

Rāmeśvara: And also Dr. Harvey Cox of Harvard, he quoted one section of the Bible where Jesus was preaching and his mother did not like it, and his father, and they came to get him away. They thought he was gone crazy, that he was preaching so much about God. So they came to his place where he had gathered many people. They wanted to deprogram him. And Jesus said, "You're not my mother. You're not my father. My real father is in heaven, and my real relatives are those who believe in God."

Prabhupāda: Where is that?

Rāmeśvara: That's right in the Bible.

Prabhupāda: (break) Because there are many fanatics. Hm?

Hari-śauri: Through America it's full of persecutors.(?) These people are very, very hateful towards our men. Europe is all right. Europe...

Prabhupāda: Europe? Germany...

Hari-śauri: Germany is bad.(?)

Jagadīśa: North America would be... South America?

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda, if you did come to America, the best idea is if you went to a farm like the New York farm and just made that your headquarters. And the devotees could visit. They could come and see you. Otherwise, the country in Pennsylvania is very beautiful in the spring and the summer, very peaceful.

Hari-śauri: New Vrindaban you could go when the palace is done.

(long conversation at end of tape about deprogramming and psychology—Rāmeśvara talks most of the time—can be transcribed if the tape is slowed down and the train noise is reduced.) (end)

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: I am talking of that man. (laughter)

Hari-śauri: "...who even at the point of death was requesting the physician to prolong his life for four years more because his plans were not yet complete. Such foolish people do not know that a physician cannot prolong life even for a moment. When the notice is there, there is no consideration of the man's desire. The laws of nature do not allow a second beyond what one is destined to enjoy. The demoniac person, who has no faith in God or the Supersoul within himself, performs all kinds of sinful activities simply for sense gratification. He does not know that there is a witness sitting within his heart. The Supersoul is observing the activities of the individual soul. As it is stated in Vedic literature, the Upaniṣads, there are two birds sitting in one tree. One is acting and enjoying or suffering the fruits of the branches, and the other is witnessing. But one who is demoniac has no knowledge of Vedic scripture, nor has he any faith. Therefore he feels free to do anything for sense enjoyment, regardless of the consequence."

Prabhupāda: Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). So on the whole, people are in darkness. And that is going on as advancement. This is the only institution to give them some light. There is no doubt about it. All in the darkness. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They are in darkness, and some leader comes, he is also in the darkness, and both of them fall into the ditch. This is going on. Do you agree to this point? Otherwise you cannot become good preacher. You must yourself, must be convinced that actually this is the position. All these rascals, scientists, philosophers, politicians—they're all in darkness, and they're misguiding people. That's all. One of the first-class rascal in darkness is your Darwin. He's in favor of Darwin's theory. Another first-class demon is that Freud. (laughter) These are the guides of the modern civilization. Anthropomorphism. No? What is called?

Gargamuni: Anthropology?

Prabhupāda: Anthropology.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: But at least if you look at what's there, in most of the Bibles anyway, the beginnings of Christ's movement are just like our own movement. All these men gave up all their material possessions. They went out and preached. And that was his general teaching too, that they should not worry for anything because God is supplying to everyone, even the birds and beasts. So why should they worry? Just go out and preach. That was his basic teaching to his twelve apostles.

Prabhupāda: That is faithfulness in God. Why a preacher should be bothered about maintaining himself?

Rāmeśvara: Actually there is some good lessons to learn from them, because they were persecuted, they were killed by the government even. But they didn't give up their faith. They remained very faithful, the early Christians.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: And also later missionaries went all over the world alone, to Africa, all countries of the world, converting people, although it was very difficult. So they had a very good missionary spirit formerly. When I went to Fiji I saw many Christian churches in Fiji. Right next door to the house where Vasudeva lives there is a Christian tabernacle, and they wake up every morning at 4:30 and they have hymns-same practice as we have, but it's Christian hymns.

Hari-śauri: Along with all, that, though, they're allowed to please their senses in any way that they like. So their teaching doesn't really have much benefit for anyone. They're still doing all kinds of sinful activity. Now their idea is that if you accept Jesus, it means that you can carry on doing as many sinful activities as you like, but Jesus is going to take all the sinful reaction.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. "He died for us, so why should we suffer?" (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Jesus Christ is the contractor. They say that "Our religion is very good. If you simply have faith in Jesus Christ, we can do anything."

Hari-śauri: "Let Christ continue suffering, and we'll enjoy."

Prabhupāda: In Aurobindo āśrama the same thing. Aurobindo said that "You simply think of me. Then you will be pure."

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: See if we can go inside. (break)

Prabhupāda: I was going to purchase ticket, Māgha Melā. He said "No, you don't go. That's it."

Bhāgavata: Then there is a lake over here and there is animals, birds, different types of birds.

Prabhupāda: Oh, zoological.

Bhāgavata: Yes, zoological. All types. And on this side they have the lions, tigers, bears... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the forest and see actually. (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa. In Africa they're open.

Bhāgavata: Yes, in that national park in Nairobi.

Prabhupāda: The dog also knows that he's in the cage.

Bhāgavata: This is an Indian lion, from India. They have captured in India. And they also have African lions in here.

Gurukṛpa: Gujarati. It's a Gujarati.

Bhāgavata: From the forest of Katiwan.(?) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...monkey and cow. Rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, sattva-guṇa. Lion in the rajo-guṇa, monkey in the tamo-guṇa and cow in the sattva-guṇa.

Hari-śauri: What about the cows that they slaughter? Do they have to continue in a cow birth?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So, we shall go this way or return?

Bhāgavata: No. This way there is more, if you like.

Prabhupāda: There is more... (break) ...then attacking themselves.

Hari-śauri: Not cannibals.

Bhāgavata: This way you will see birds, many different types of birds.

Hari-śauri: They turned one of the stately homes in England into a lion reserve. You can drive through, and the lions come and jump on your car.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Jumping on the car?

Hari-śauri: Yeah. Sometimes they do.

Satsvarūpa: The bird isn't powerful, but he can fly away from the lion. He can fly away from the lion, but he's not powerful.

Prabhupāda: Fly away?

Satsvarūpa: Kṛṣṇa has made him that he has some other kind of defense.

Prabhupāda: What kind of defense?

Satsvarūpa: He can fly away if a lion comes. You were teaching that each species has some kind of potent..., special...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam. One can protect himself from bhaya, cause of fearfulness. They are given food?

Bhāgavata: Yes, they give the animals food.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: How many days? Three days?

Bhāgavata: Up to seven days, I think.

Prabhupāda: Seven days.

Bhāgavata: And this is very large birds, bird sanctuary.

Prabhupāda: Crane. (break) ...in the forest. In the park.

Satsvarūpa: They were not even in cages. I met an Indian man on the plane coming here, and I was speaking on the Bhagavad-gītā. I was saying that "In your next life a person could become an animal." He said, "No. The Bhagavad-gītā teaches if you come to human life, then you don't be reborn lower." I asked him to show me a verse. He didn't know.

Prabhupāda: "Then why you are talking like rascal?" You should have said like that.

Satsvarūpa: He said, "I know Bhagavad-gītā, and my father and all our relatives, we all study Bhagavad-gītā." But he couldn't...

Prabhupāda: "And you do not know anything." (laughter) What is the use of... So we shall go further? No.

Bhāgavata: Would you like to return?

Prabhupāda: No, we shall go. The, what is called, evolution theory... Darwin said they take from monkey. But they do not know wherefrom the monkey comes. Does he give it chronologically?

Satsvarūpa: No. They say that both humans and monkeys come from a common ancestor. But they don't know what that is.

Prabhupāda: Who was your ancestor? (laughter) Jalajā nava-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-vimśati. There is chronological order followed: first of all aquatics, then trees and plants, then insects, then reptiles, and in this way, then birds, then beasts, then human being. Which way? This? No.

Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Krisht, Krisht. Christ means Krisht, Krisht. Krishta is vulgar expression of Kṛṣṇa. No, from his teaching, we can understand he is representative of God.

Hari-śauri: Oh, yes. What he was teaching is exactly in accord with what we're doing.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: I was reading some of his instructions, what he was giving to his original disciples. And he gave them examples, that "The birds, they are not worrying about their food. God is supplying. So you should not worry for your food. You should simply go out and preach."

Prabhupāda: He said like that?

Hari-śauri: Yes. He said, "So what should you worry if you go out and preach? Do you think that God will not give to you?"

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: "He is giving to the birds."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is, our mission.

Hari-śauri: Yes. And he told them, "You should not worry for your food, for your clothing, for somewhere to stay. If you preach then God will look after all those things."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's just near the present temple of Govinda that I was talking. It is a small forest full of monkeys, and they are so friendly.

Prabhupāda: Monkeys are very friendly.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. They're much more friendly than monkeys in Vṛndāvana. (laughing) I have seen that many, very healthy. There's some sort of welcome people coming. There are many. That place is some sort of a central place of Imphala. It's a very..., spiritually, a very conducive area. Many kinds of birds, and it's very natural surroundings. So I went with two of our life members, and they are thinking that maybe we can approach the government so that we can get the land from Manipur government, and then we can construct a temple.

Prabhupāda: That's good idea. Yes. So now organize things. My presence or no presence, we have got now a position. We have to push on this movement very cautiously.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Svarūpa Dāmodara Prabhu was mentioning that he met Upendra.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Where?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In the airport, Calcutta airport. He arrived last night, but somehow his luggage was left in Bombay airport. So the luggage is coming tonight at seven o'clock for Bombay-Calcutta flight, and he told me that he's coming after, a taxi. So he'll be arriving about nine o'clock tonight.

Prabhupāda: Oh. He has received that telegram.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Hawaii.

Prabhupāda: He is coming from Hawaii?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He went all the way back to Hawaii.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think we're doing all right.

Prabhupāda: He's enthusiastic.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. He's very anxious. I was even thinking of coming together, but I came by train from Calcutta, from Dum Dum station. But he told me that he has nothing. All the clothings and everything in that luggage. So he'll come.

Prabhupāda: Never mind. He shall come.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This letter written by him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says, "Dear Tamāla Kṛṣṇa, we received your telegram and acted immediately after confirming with Rāmeśvara." This is from Upendra.

Prabhupāda: Oh. "Unfortunately, after seven-hour stopover in Tokyo, they lost my reservations on my connecting flight. That, coupled with the fact that after arriving last night I find they've sent my belongings to Bombay, so I am waiting until the evening for the flight from Bombay when I get my trunk. I shall try to hire a taxi directly to Māyāpur. I would come now but I have absolutely no personal clothes or anything. Please tell Prabhupāda that I am due this evening. If not, then I shall ask the Calcutta devotees to care for my luggage and I'll proceed immediately."

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Rāmeśvara: We're trying like that. They are endorsing something else.

Prabhupāda: This is a better meditation. Meditation... One is performing meditation silently. But if we chant "Hare Kṛṣṇa," it is forced meditation. He has to meditate. So it is better meditation. Just like they're chanting. I am engaged in different business. Still, I am hearing. (kīrtana in background) This is the... And one is silently meditating, he's getting, maybe he's getting the benefit, but here anyone who is hearing, getting benefit. Therefore chanting is better than... Yes. And it is recommended by Haridāsa Ṭhākura that... This is discussed in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, that "Chanting, even the trees, even the insects and the animals, they will hear and they get the benefit." So it is better meditation. Even the trees, plants, animals, birds, beasts, they can take benefit. And if it is done by pure Vaiṣṇava, then they get the full benefit.

Rāmeśvara: There's another trend that I have noticed recently, that they have... In the past, formerly, many articles were full of quotes in Sanskrit, and recently they have not been using so much Sanskrit, but just the English. The magazine is, they say, is mostly sold...

Prabhupāda: That is not bad. Sanskrit, not necessarily it has to be quoted, but the English is there. It is sufficient. The purport is there.

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīm (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4). He doesn't care.

Prabhupāda: No. They are... And woman and money, that will not solve the problems of our life.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They increase the problems of life.

Prabhupāda: Even bird and beast, they can get woman.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who?

Bali-mardana: Birds and beast.

Prabhupāda: I have seen. I have studied this cricket (cricket sounds in room), that come for... Two of, the male and female.

Hari-śauri: Yes. And every morning you can see these sparrows.

Prabhupāda: Every.

Hari-śauri: Very busy making nests.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere. This male and female, nature's gift that is. Therefore tasyaiva hetoḥ. These things you'll get.

Room Conversation -- February 27, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Where is his wife?

Rādhā-vallabha: She left the movement some time ago.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Rādhā-vallabha: I heard there was some correspondence between them after he left you. Birds of a feather.

Prabhupāda: So they are husband and wife still or not?

Rādhā-vallabha: I just heard from some women, so I can't trust it.

Prabhupāda: Hm. But she was pregnant?

Rādhā-vallabha: I don't know. She was living with her parents in Colorado, I think. He is from there also.

Prabhupāda: He was polluted by the..., that Puruṣottama.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. That Mr. Dalmia's guru.

Prabhupāda: No, no, not that Puruṣottama. Another, my... He says my Godbrother.

Rādhā-vallabha: The one that was making corrections in your books. Rascal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He has very intimately mixed. I think that he arranged for delivering books, this Nitāi.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They even suggested that in the future, if we had any plan like that, we should just let them know about two or three weeks ahead so they can arrange others also in the other departments.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Do immediately. Your business is that. You take these scientists and other intelligent... Everyone is intelligent, but especially to convince them... "Birds of the same feather..." Otherwise they'll not mix. We are already haṁsas, but to mix with the crow, we shall dress ourself like a crow. (laughter)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like I went with pant...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Otherwise the crows will make a noise, "Kaw, kaw, kaw, kaw, kaw." (laughter) Because this whole society is full of crows. They are not even nice birds. So what can be done?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's very encouraging.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Especially in India...

Prabhupāda: Therefore...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's my first experience. The man whom I met in Bombay is the head of the chemistry section of the Balai(?) Atomic Research Center where they made this atomic bomb.

Prabhupāda: Fedder. Fedder Road.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1977, Mayapura:

Girirāja: Well, this gives excuse for unrestricted sense gratification, although actually there's no benefit in that. It just makes people more unhappy.

Prabhupāda: Without scientific knowledge the animals are also gratifying their senses. Why they take to the platform of education for sense gratification? What can be benefit? It doesn't require... Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. Even the birds and beasts, they have got facilities for sense gratification. The pig, they have got very good facility for sense gratification—no distinction between mother, sister, or anyone. The pig has got greater facility. So why in the name of education?

Hari-śauri: Intellectual sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: What is that intellectual?

Girirāja: I think the idea is that if everything is just coming from matter and there's no God, then there's no rules and regulations to restrict the sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: But that you could not prove. You are under some control. Why don't you see to that? You may think you are independent, but you are under control. Nobody wants to die—you die. So what is the benefit of showing that "I am independent"? (pause) Any arrangement with any bank for our temple branch? (break) What is the situation of the tenants?

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This is real socialism. God is the supreme father. Everyone has got right to live at the cost of the father's property. But you cannot take more than that. Then you are a thief. Take whatever you... And even by nature you will find. You just immediately throw one bag of rice, so many birds will come. And they will take one or two grain or something... They will go away. And the human being, oh, he will take five shares, he will take ten shares. And within one hour, ten mounds of rice will be finished. The birds and beasts will not do that. Whatever he actually requires, they will take from there. Therefore they are not subjected to the sinful activities. Only human beings are subjected to sinful activities. But he has got developed consciousness and misusing it. There is no sinful activities for animals lower than the human being. There is no sin. Because they are under the laws of nature, the animals. And as soon as one becomes developed conscious human being, if he does not know the śāstra and guided by spiritual master, he will do all nonsense. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Vikarma, all sinful activities. Only for sense gratification. Mad after sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma. And what is the purpose of doing so many sinful activities? Yad indriya-prītaya, only for sense gratification. There is no other aim. Ṛṣabhadeva says, "No, no, don't do this." So who is giving protection to these rascals who are educated to act sinfully? That is in Bhāgavata. "No, no." Na sādhu manye. "This is not good." "But why not good? Let me enjoy." "No, you will not enjoy. You will create another body for suffering." Yata ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). You are already suffering. You have got this body. You are already suffering on account of your past activities. And you are creating again another body for suffering. So it is not good.

Morning Talk -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Indian man (Doctor?): I would like to have the history of the present program which is going on. It will be apparent that so much will be there. The same thing is going on.

Prabhupāda: I have no appetite. I cannot digest. This is going on. (break) (doctor has left) ...You have seen the birds, the sparrow, the crows. They are different birds. They have got different movements.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh.

Prabhupāda: From the pulse beating, you study how it is beating.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like sparrow, like crow.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. Then, according to that, there is verse. Immediately everything will be arranged. The history. He will not ask, "Give me the history." He'll study the history from the pulse. That is Ayurvedic. So that is gone. To study Āyur-veda is now lost. Nobody seriously takes Āyur-veda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There is not much big money in it, I think.

Prabhupāda: Thing is allopathic is so popular now, nobody goes to Āyur-veda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, there is no... You can't make a living very much.

Prabhupāda: They can give immediately, take. Although that is not very good, still, by lecture and by some strong medicine they can give him immediately. People like that. And Āyur-veda is long term, and people cannot wait.

Room Conversation -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is the duty of ācārya. Otherwise he is not... Not that three dozen ācāryas in Māyāpur. Each one has a temple and a few dozen... Not few dozen—one dozen disciples. Bring some rice and eat. They are ācārya. That day I said that, khāi laya khasi bhaja,(?) then everybody became angry. Collecting some money, taking to the holy place, collecting fifty rupees and keeping twenty rupees and spending thirty rupees. This is... In this way they are making livelihood, ācāryas. They say, "Whatever is in our capacity, we are doing." The capacity means when they are speaking that the cockroach is as good a bird as the Garuḍa. Cockroach is also a bird and Garuḍa is also a bird.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Quite a difference, though.

Prabhupāda: How the cockroach can say "I am also as good as Garuḍa"?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is called insanity.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) So they want to say like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Garuḍa eats timiṅgila fish as his diet.

Prabhupāda: No, he can eat. He flies from one planet to another. Just like one bird flies, he starts from one tree and takes rest another. The Garuḍa bird, they do that. They start from one planet and take rest in another planet. This is their flying. And while flying, they lay down eggs, and the eggs, while falling down, become birds. By the heat.

Room Conversation -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's very scientific. Because normally the bird has to sit on the egg for producing heat to hatch the egg.

Prabhupāda: The heat is produced by the, what is called, motion.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, friction.

Prabhupāda: Friction. And they become bird.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And their food?

Prabhupāda: Food, go to one planet.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They eat big quantities.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Big quantities mean according to... The ant is eating its quantity; elephant is eating.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Garuḍa eats...

Prabhupāda: Whatever eating, he can eat. God has supplied.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That teaching I also remember from the Bible. There's a statement that "Everyone is being supplied, so don't you think that God will also supply for you?" That's there in the Bible, I think, also. But the Christians, so-called, they don't heed it.

Prabhupāda: And therefore we challenge them, "Who is a Christian?" It is not a single one.

Conversation with Yadubara (after seeing film) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's nice. That can be, and this..., done that.

Yadubara: Do you think there should be any sequel to this film? In other words, to carry on the philosophy?

Prabhupāda: No, you have given the evolution of from fish to plant, plant to insect, bird, animal. That can be little elaborately, evolution. Then human being, full consciousness. Now, this is the chance for understanding God. And if they are still kept in darkness like the animals, that's a dangerous civilization. Refusing the opportunity to the humanity. By knowing this, you can get out of this continual evolutionary process. That is anti-material world, Vaikuṇṭha world, where you can actually live. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. He does not take birth, neither dies, and dances with Kṛṣṇa. That is life. That we are wanting. We are seeking after. It is not possible here. Here you have to go through the evolutionary process again and again if you don't take the opportunity for going back to home, back to... Then it is your misfortune. So this civilization keeping people in their unfortunate condition. Mām aprāpya nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). This is opportunity to understand God and go back to Him, but that opportunity is being refused. Therefore he is returning again to the same position of birth and death. From animal to man, from man to..., up and down. But dehāntara, that is very dangerous. Tathā dehāntara, you have to change your body. Stop this. If you are scientist, stop it. Continue as American forever. Why you cannot? Why you are so proud of your so-called scientific education? Then you are under control. You have constructed this skyscraper building. Live here forever. Why don't you live? Kicked out. In the same house can become a cockroach because you have got attachment. "All right. Live here as cockroach." Who can check it? Cockroach is also life. Dehāntara. The proprietor becomes cockroach.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Govindajī Temple?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Govindajī's temple is just in front.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And it is right in the middle of the center, this place, this forest?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, it's not in the middle. It's on the side, one of the sides of the... And there's a river, this Imphal River. It almost surrounds this little forest. And this forest is full of monkeys and so many birds, and they are very natural. It is about seven acres. It's not very big. Seven acres of land.

Prabhupāda: Seven acres.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Seven acres is a big plot.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah. And other one is here. lt's called Vishnupur. Vishnupur is... There was a Viṣṇu temple. It was constructed in fourteen hundred and..., about 502 years ago, a temple. The temple is still there. It was built by a king called Kyambha in Manipur about that time. And he worshiped this Viṣṇu, and that place is called Vishnupur, that Viṣṇu. And this is... Actually this is a nicer place. That is ten acres. But this is a little away from the town, but the congregation is very good here. Comes from all places, from Burma...

Prabhupāda: How many miles?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: How many miles from Imphal? Seventeen. One-seven.

Prabhupāda: Not many miles.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, it's not too far. And this land they are donating to us.

Prabhupāda: They have done already?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They want to donate this to ISKCON to build a temple, ISKCON Hare Kṛṣṇa temple.

Prabhupāda: So if you can pick up one person from family, then we can do immediately.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Dog is also doing that. Is he householder? Taking care of children, the dog is also doing that. So is he householder? First of all, you do not know what is meant by householder. Taking care of children, that is done by the birds. In the nest the small kiddies are there, and they are bringing food and pushing in the mouth, (makes bird noise:) "Tee, tee, tee, tee, tee." Are they householder? And if you think they are householder, you are also householder like the dogs and birds. You do not know what is householder. Therefore you have to consult śāstra, who is a householder. Śāstra says, pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum: "You should not become a father and mother unless you take the responsibility for children that no more birth." Because this is the problem, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). If you are so able father and mother that you can stop this miserable condition of your children, then you become householder. That is householder. Otherwise what is the use of becoming a householder like dogs and cats? There is no use. There are so many cats and dogs. What is use of increasing? Now government is forcing: "Do not produce cats and dogs. Take these inhibitions(?)." Because the whole world is fed up with these cats and dogs householders. Real householder is, śāstra says, "Don't become a father, don't become a mother, if you cannot protect your children..." Samupeta-mṛtyum. And they are required. If you can do that, then you are welcome. You can produce hundreds of children. But you cannot protect yourself; how you'll be able to protect your children? All bogus. Householder is allowed, as brahmacārī-āśrama, gṛhastha-āśrama. It is not meant that... Big, big personality were householder. Lord Rāmacandra was householder. Arjuna was householder. Prahlāda Mahārāja was a householder. Janaka Mahārāja was householder. But they were not cats and dogs. So be householder. You do the duty of real householder. Don't become cats and dogs.

Room Conversation -- June 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It is feet only.

Yaśodānandana: That is only three and a half yojanas, and we say it is 80,000 miles high.

Prabhupāda: Read something.

Bhakti-prema: And they can travel only 800 miles high, the birds in the sky, but according to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, after 800 miles there is air to breath for a human being. But there is air for ghost and piśāca and other different species. But if we move... There are Siddhas and Cāraṇas. They are also living there. And above that, there is Rahu planet. That means 80,000 miles high.

Prabhupāda: That means Rahu planet we have connection.

Bhakti-prema: Yes. Rahu. And above that Rahu there is sun planet, and Sumeru mountain has connection with that because it is hurling again...

Yaśodānandana: It says right here.

Prabhupāda: Do it nicely.

Room Conversation Varnasrama -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...actually what benefit to the human society? But technology, or high technology. Just like Indian technology.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't see any benefit. I see that they only get trouble.

Prabhupāda: In India the caste system was very good. From the very beginning the children would learn the technology of their paternal. Just like potter. You'll see the children of the potter, they are also making a small bird, a small fruit, and they would be sold. A small playing utensils-small glass, small plate—they're also sold. Other children would purchase. The whole family used to earn something. Nowadays they're sent to school, wasting time, and then unemployment and idle brain. What is the use of sending a potter's son to school?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, everything he needs to know, he can learn at home.

Prabhupāda: That's what I... Similarly, weaver, that cloth weaving, "kat, kat." The wife is spinning, her husband is weaving, the children is weaving, and combinedly at the end of the day there is a cloth. And people were satisfied with simple necessities. They would not charge very much for the labor. And one nice cloth requires half a pound cotton. Half a pound cotton means maybe one rupee. Another one rupee for the labor. So now they are paying twenty to thirty rupees. Unnecessarily he has to earn this money and pay to the millionaires, and he will keep three dozen motorcars, so another man will be engaged in motorcar industry.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So they are eating. That means you want to keep people starving.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And every species is eating. We don't find that the birds have a food shortage.

Prabhupāda: It is not government. Just see to the head of the government, that Bose? He's planning how to cut down religious movement, keeping aside.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would you like a little foot massage, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No. (pause) We read from Bhāgavatam they held meeting that "We must shift from this place. The demons are disturbing. For the benefit of Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma we must change this place." So the meeting was held in the morning, and they decided, "Let us immediately leave." So...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How long did it take them to shift?

Prabhupāda: Just hearing, adyaiva, today, and immediately began. So how simple living was.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If they could shift in one day they must have lived so simple.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Look at this Mr. Myer. He has to go flying down to Madras, close his account, do this, do this. How complicated life has become. And they were householders.

Prabhupāda: And they shifted very organizedly. The cows, tuck bag, then the guards with bows and arrows, then old men, women, children in carts.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There are no fox.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. The danger is not from the fox. It is from the other people. They catch the peacock and eat it.

Prabhupāda: Oh, no. (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't know. They think it is a pheasant or something. They have no idea it is a peacock, special bird. I asked Abhirama. Sometimes they fly away and they don't come back. I said, "Does it mean that they got lost?" He said, "We don't know exactly what it means, but we are guessing." The people there are...

Prabhupāda: Rākṣasa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, rākṣasa. And, of course, there's lots of coconut trees. Coconuts. That is a special feature of Florida especially. Many people... The thing is... Like mangoes, for example. The people, they don't want the mangoes or the coconuts or the avocados. In fact, you can go to people's home and say, "Sir, can I have these?" They say, "Yes, please take them away. They're creating a mess." They want you to take these things.

Prabhupāda: Hawaii also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Same thing. And now in Florida they have developed a tree. It is a coconut tree without the coconuts.

Prabhupāda: Why not make mango industry?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mango industry.

Prabhupāda: Mango is such a fruit, when it is not ripe, the green from that, up to the full ripe you can have.

Room Conversation With Bharadvaja -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bharadvāja: So we will show this.

Prabhupāda: Kṣīṇe puṇye punar martya-lokaṁ viśanti, that from higher planets, they fall down with water, and then again, like bubbles, begins from water, life. As the water dries up, then vegetables, and then... Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa... Then moving animals and ants, reptiles. In this way, birds, beast, then four-legged animals, then uncivilized man, then civilized man with Vedic knowledge, then God realization. This is the process.

Bharadvāja: Very wonderful, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We have this evolution in our second exhibit. We want to show that in the beginning the Lord was there, and that by His energy the universe is created and all the different elements are evolved by His glance.

Prabhupāda: Yes, everything is generated from His energy. He is original cause of two energies, material and spiritual. Therefore He is the original cause.

Bharadvāja: In the second part we're also showing that the Lord, out of His infinite kindness and mercy, has created the material world so that the living entities can be corrected.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a chance to come to understanding.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What has been done there?

Bharadvāja: It has been made into a museum, complete museum. There is twelve different exhibits. And the first exhibit is exhibit of Your Divine Grace writing books at Rādhā-Dāmodara temple, introduction. The next exhibit is Kṛṣṇa-Arjuna on the battlefield, and Kṛṣṇa begins to explain dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13) to Arjuna. And the third exhibit is showing changing bodies, showing how the body is changing but the soul remains the same. The fourth exhibit shows the chariot of the body—the five horses, the five senses. The driver is the intelligence; the soul is the passenger. Then there is the fifth exhibit. It shows how a man can become degraded and how he can become elevated from a neutral position in life. And the sixth exhibit shows that when a man becomes elevated by Vedic wisdom he becomes sama-darśinaḥ. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). He sees everyone equal-dog, elephant, a cow, even brāhmaṇa—everyone, the same spirit soul. And he also sees Paramātmā in the heart of everyone. Then the seventh exhibit shows how Paramātmā, the original Paramātmā, is Kṛṣṇa, Govinda, and that He comes... Then different incarnations are shown. Then the eighth exhibit shows Kṛṣṇa's viśva-rūpa, explaining how everything is created, maintained and annihilated all within the potency of the Supreme Lord. Then the ninth exhibit shows how Kṛṣṇa personally comes on Garuḍa, to deliver those who are faithful from the ocean of birth and death. It shows a man struggling in the ocean, swimming, but he cannot save himself. And then Kṛṣṇa comes down on Garuḍa. The Lord Himself intervenes. In this way the man is saved. And the tenth exhibit shows the incarnation of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, how He is delivering the whole world by this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa. The eleventh exhibit explains how the soul... It shows Kṛṣṇa in Vṛndāvana surrounded by eight gopīs and different animals and peacocks and birds and flowers. And it explains that the soul has eternal form and that it can enjoy, that the soul enjoys in eternal loving pastimes with Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Eleven.