Prabhupāda: The spiritual knowledge is called tat knowledge, tat, oṁ tat sat.
Guest (1): Oṁ tat sat. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Oṁ tat sat. So the tat knowledge is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, tad-viddhi. Tad viddhi praṇipātena (BG 4.34). Praṇipātena. You understand praṇipāta? Surrender.
Guest (1): Surrender.
Prabhupāda: So tad viddhi. If you want to understand that transcendental knowledge, then you have to accept this process, praṇipāta. Praṇipāta means surrender, and surrender means there must be somebody to whom you surrender.
Guest (1): Whom you surrender, yes.
Prabhupāda: There are two, not alone. So you cannot alone think of tat knowledge. You have to surrender to somebody. That is the process.
Guest (1): There are eight kinds of getting the knowledge, means bhakti...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Bhakti is a process. Bhakti is not knowledge. That knowledge you acquire by your sense perception, and bhakti is the pure activities of the senses.
Guest (1): No, surrender means bhakti. One surrenders to...
Prabhupāda: No question of bhakti. That is the process. If you want to know about tat, then that is the process. You have to surrender. So long you will think that "I can think of, I have got power," you'll be failed.
Guest (1): That consideration of "myself, I am thinking," that is not there.
Prabhupāda: Then who is thinking?
Guest (1): Thinking means...
Prabhupāda: No, no, don't use abstract knowledge. As soon as you are thinking, you are thinking.
Guest (1): No, that sometimes thinking, when you are listening inside you...
Prabhupāda: Anyway, listening or thinking, these are different process of acquiring knowledge, but you are doing that.
Guest (1): Yes, my outer form is doing that.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): But inner form may be...
Prabhupāda: What is that inner form? You are inner form. Your outer, your coat, is not thinking. Your shirt is not thinking. What you mean by outward, inward? Inward you are. Outward your coat and shirt. Do you think your coat and shirt is thinking? You are thinking.
Guest (1): Yes, I am thinking, but, you see...
Prabhupāda: There is no "but." You are thinking.
Guest (1): I am thinking. One is at the lower level, and one is at the higher...
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. Either in the lower level or in the higher level, you are thinking.
Guest (1): Yes, all right.
Prabhupāda: And therefore, because you are thinking in the lower level, therefore your thinking is imperfect. So to be in higher level, you have to surrender to a higher personality.
Guest (1): Higher wouldn't be better than that.
Prabhupāda: Just like child is thinking something. His thinking is lower level. But when he inquires from his father, that is higher level. The same thinking is he, but one stage his thinking is lower level; in another stage his thinking is higher level. But thinking always, he.
Guest (1): Yes, thinking is his always.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So tat knowledge is higher level, and therefore you have to accept that tat knowledge from a higher level personality, not from by yourself, because you are in the lower level.
Guest (1): No, how do we know lower level and higher level?
Prabhupāda: Because you do not know, therefore you... Why you are thinking? Because you do not know.
Guest (1): No, it is not that...
Prabhupāda: Then there is no question of asking me. Then you think yourself.
Guest (1): No, we were trying...
Prabhupāda: First of all you try to understand the principle. Why you have come to ask me?
Guest (1): Not ask but just...
Prabhupāda: Because you are thinking on the lower level.